Human society (Conversations 1968 - 1973)

Expressions researched:
"human society"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- February 1, 1968, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: Utopian-like, where there is no harm, no..., all is good, and...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, this our process is chanting. It is very innocent. If you sit down and chant with us, you have no loss, no harm, but there is great gain. You see? By chanting, you gradually cleanse your heart and you can realize what is God. That is the greatest gain. Human life is meant for knowing God. The animals, they cannot know, although the bodily demands of the animal and the human being are the same. The animals, they sleep; man also sleeps. Animal, they eat; man also eats. The animal, they are also afraid of some enemy; man is also afraid of some enemy. The animals, they mate with the opposite sex, and men also do that. But what is the special significance of man? He can understand about God, but the animal cannot. Therefore if a man does not take to this understanding, he is no better than animal. A man who has no God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is no better than animal because he has no other business than the four principles of bodily demands. So that is also prevalent in animal kingdom. Therefore this is a privilege for human being, to understand about God, and as such, in every human society there is some sort of religious principle. This religious principle means to understand God. Either you take it, Christianity or Judaism or Hinduism, every religion is trying to understand God according to their capacity. So without this understanding, means Kṛṣṇa consciousness, human life is as good as animal life.

Interview -- February 1, 1968, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: Could I ask for a spelling on those?

Prabhupāda: Sannyā... Yes, brahmacārī: b-r-a-h-m-a-c-h-a-r-y, this is brahmacārī. Then gṛhastha: g-r-i-h-a-s-t-h-a, gṛhastha. H-a-s-t-h-a, gṛhastha. G-r-i-h-a-s-t-h-a. Is that clear? Gṛhastha. Then vānaprastha: v-a-n-a-p-r-a-s-t-h-a, vānaprastha. Then sannyāsī: s-n-n-y-a-s-i, sannyāsī. Four divisions. These four divisions, and there are other four orders of social system. That is according to work, division according to work and quality. Just like the brāhmaṇas, b-r-a-h-m-a-i-n-s, brāhmaṇas. Brāhmaṇas means the most intelligent class of the society. The kṣatriyas, k-s-h-a-t-r-y-a-s, kṣatriyas. Kṣatriyas means persons who are interested in politics, in the management of the country, political affairs. They are called kṣatriyas. Similarly, there is the vaiśyas, v-a-i-s-y-a-s. Vaiśyas means the mercantile, productive class. Those who are engaged in producing grains or trade, milk, and in industry. Of course, industry, artisans, they are called, artists, śūdras. Anyway, any person engaged in producing for the needs of the society, they are called vaiśyas. And the worker class is called śūdra. So according to Vedic system, these are eight divisions. Unless the human society is divided into these eight divisions in terms of material and spiritual progress of life, that is not accepted as human society.

Interview -- February 1, 1968, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: What is the significance of... Right after the chanting, everyone bows, and that I don't understand, what they're doing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is offering respect. The whole, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is to ask people to surrender to God. They have rebelled against God. Somebody says, "There is no God." Somebody says that "I am God." These nonsense things are to be eradicated from human society. So they should be trained to submit. So the submission is symbolized by bowing down: "Yes, you are great; I am humble." This should be taught. Otherwise, whimsically somebody is thinking that "I am God." They do not know what is God. It is most foolish proposal if somebody claims that he is God. He is dog. We very much hate this proposal, when a man claims that he is God. It is most blasphemous.

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Interviewer: Could you tell people how you are dressed today, what's the significance of your clothes?

Prabhupāda: About the significance of our institution?

Interviewer: No, about the way your clothes, the way you're dressed today. Uh, the robes.

Prabhupāda: Oh, the robe? Yes, I am a sannyāsī. The sannyāsī is the highest status of human social division. According to Vedic culture there are four divisions of human society. Brahmacārī, student life; then householder, gṛhastha; and then vānaprastha, retired life; and then sannyāsa life, means preaching transcendental knowledge to the society from door to door. So this dress... In Vedic culture, there are different dresses for different persons. So this saffron colored dress means that he is admitted without any introduction anywhere because he's understood to be a man of transcendental knowledge. And the householders receive them and take knowledge from them. That is the system of Vedic culture.

Morning Walk at Stow Lake -- March 27, 1968, San Francisco:

Devotee (1): You were talking about Prahlada.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Prahlada Maharaja said. Yes. About this body. It is arrangement, according to different body. Now, these swans, they have left this, defending, they're going away. This is defending only. Yes. And as soon as they're on the water, they think, "Oh, we are safe because these rascals cannot come in the water." (laughter) They are thinking about us "rascals." As we are thinking about them that they are lower animals, so they are also thinking, "These are rascals." Just like some father rebukes a son, the son also thinks of the father as rascal, "Unnecessarily he's chastising me." There is a proverb that as the child grows... (break) ...also thinks that "This boy is a fool; he'll do wrong by..." This is stated. And the child is stated in a different way. Just like sometimes our audience also. When we speak they think, "What nonsense he's speaking. Oh, Kṛṣṇa, what is this Kṛṣṇa? Let us enjoy." They are not purified. So this Prahlada Mahārāja says that according to the body, the specific facilities of eating, sleeping, mating, and defending is already arranged. It is already arranged. So one hasn't got to learn. Just like for mating. There is no college or school where in the classroom dis..., that "This is way you have to mate." Everyone knows automatically. Everyone knows how to mate automatically. Nobody is taught how to laugh. Oh, when laughing comes, it, automatically one laughs. Nobody's taught how to cry. Everyone cries when there is some distress. So these things, what is wanted as the necessity of my body, so arrangement is there. But because we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa, you think that "We can do something." Therefore we take advantage of our high intelligence to defend ourselves more nicely, to have mating more nicely, or eating more nicely. And a devotee should be satisfied that whatever Kṛṣṇa arranged, that's all right. That Kṛṣṇa prasādam we will take. Whatever Kṛṣṇa has kindly sent, let me be satisfied with this. They do not want more than that. Similarly, "Kṛṣṇa has sent me this woman as my wife, oh, let me be satisfied with that." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that He's pleased to send me such foodstuff, He's pleased to send me such wife, He's pleased to give me strength for so much defense." So the whole question is solved there. But because we have got high intelligence, we are going to surpass the intelligence of Kṛṣṇa. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has given me this wife? Why not search out another nice wife?" That means I am going to surpass the intelligence of Kṛṣṇa. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has sent this prasādam. Oh, this is all vegetables. Why not take some animal food and liquor?" Kṛṣṇa does not send you liquor. You have manufactured. Kṛṣṇa has sent you this fruit, He has sent you the grains, Kṛṣṇa has sent you the milk. You should be satisfied. Why should you manufacture liquor? Why should you manufacture slaughterhouse? We don't eat meat. Are we dying ninety percent of Indian population, they don't eat meat. They're simply vegetarian. Yes. And you can see how they are healthy. They cannot get sufficient food, that is different thing. That is maladministration. Kṛṣṇa has given sufficient food for all the people of the world. Somewhere the foodstuff is being thrown in the sea, and somewhere people are starving. This is want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If a man becomes, if the president becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious president, then he'll think "This foodstuff is Kṛṣṇa's. It is not our result. So Kṛṣṇa claims all living entities as His sons. So we are sons of God, and the Indians or other poverty-stricken countries, they are also sons of God. So if we have got enough, why not send there?" Why you are putting the foodstuff, which no human being can produce, you are throwing it in the water. This is lack of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness education is greatly needed for human society. Do you follow, Guru dāsa?

Guru dāsa: Yes.

Morning Walk at Stow Lake -- March 27, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: So you have to convince people like that, that it is not a sentimental institution. We are teaching the thing which is very absolutely needed for the human society. As soon as one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, his personal questions and problems are solved. And if others adopt the same principle, then social-political questions are also solved. So we have to teach. They will say it is not practical. Why not practical? No, anything is not, not practical. There are so many scientific... You discovered. Just like this tape recorder. This is advantageous to the human society. But it is not practical that everyone will have a nice tape recorder. That is not practical. But when you go to manufacture, say the discoverer, "Oh, that it is not practical; therefore it should not be manufactured." Similarly, Kṛṣṇa consciousness may not be practical for all, but that does not mean it should not be preached. The customer will take. Just like this tape recorder, one has got money, you have purchased, taking advantage. Similarly, there are many pious persons who can take Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like you have taken. You are not ordinary common men. There must have been some pious activities in your past lives. Therefore you have taken to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness seriously. Bhagavad-gītā says, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ. (BG 7.28) A sinful person cannot understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is said, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ. One who has completely vanquished all sorts of sinful reactions. Now, the question may be that whether one can finish all sorts of sinful reactions within this material world. No, that is not possible. But it is possible also. What is that? That is also answered in the Bhagavad-gītā that "You give up everything. Surrender unto Me. I shall give you protection from all sinful reactions." So I may be sinful and there are so many reactions awaiting me for giving me trouble, but as soon as Kṛṣṇa takes charge of me, then everything is finished. How it can be finished? Because He is all-powerful, He's the supreme. Just like if the president says... One man is ordered to be hanged. If the president says, "No, he should not be hanged," then immediately all others sanction. Because he's the supreme.

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: ...Personality of Godhead, who stops our struggle for existence and raises to the platform of eternal life, bliss, and knowledge. To be more clear, everyone is trying to get eternal life. The whole human society is trying to get the highest perfection of knowledge, and they are trying also, by so many methods, to become happy, blissful. But they are being confused and baffled. Therefore if we take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, these things will be easily achieved.

Interviewer: Would you give me a background, the history and origin of Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: No history can trace out the origin of Kṛṣṇa consciousness because the living entities, they are eternal. The bodily concept of life is not correct. Nobody dies, nobody takes birth. Everyone is eternal. This change of body is considered a change of dress. Therefore nobody can say that "This is the beginning of life." So whenever there is life, there is consciousness also, and originally the consciousness is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But due to our long material association that consciousness is covered. Therefore we are out of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This movement is to revive that Kṛṣṇa consciousness again, so that he can be raised to his original position.

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Interviewer: Govinda told me that it started five hundred years ago in Western Bengal. Could you elucidate on this please?

Prabhupāda: This Bhagavad-gītā is read by the human society not only in India, but outside India, since a very long, long time. But unfortunately, as everything is deteriorated by the contact of material contamination, so people began to interpret Bhagavad-gītā in different ways. Therefore about five hundred years ago, Lord Caitanya appeared, and he started the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement under His personal guidance in Bengal. His birthplace is known as Navadvīpa. Now, He ordered every Indian to spread this message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world, in every village, every town. That was His order. But unfortunately, since India was under foreign subjugation, they could not spread, or they lost their own independence of culture. But everyone expected after declaration of independence by India, such things should come to the outside world. But the government did not take much care of it. So far I am concerned, I belong to Lord Caitanya's disciplic succession, and my spiritual master, who was just ninth generation from Lord Caitanya, he ordered me that "You try to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the Western world." Therefore in pursuance of his order, I have come here.

Room Conversation -- October 20, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: ...the whole atmosphere, you should come and disturb. You are making... You cannot understand? And the whole attention is diverted to you. So harā, harā is the form of the word... Hare is the form of the word harā when address, when She is addressed. And Kṛṣṇa, when He's addressed, the form does not change. This is grammatical rule. So Hare Kṛṣṇa means, "Oh, the energy of Kṛṣṇa, or energy of the Lord," and Kṛṣṇa, "the Lord." So Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa means I am praying not only to the Lord, but to the energy also. This is natural. Just like a man and woman. In whole world there is combination of male and female, either... Any society, human society, or bird society or dog society or animal society. Why this male and female? Why? Female is the energy, energy of the male. Why a man takes, marries a woman and takes responsibility...? Of course, in your country they marry as a matter of joke, immediately divorce after week or after seven days. But marriage means to take full responsibility of a woman. That is real marriage, Vedic marriage. We, when I get married our boys and girls, the boy takes this vow that "I take responsibility of your maintenance throughout your whole life," and the girl promises that "I desire to serve you throughout my whole life." So the woman, the female, is the energy. When a man comes at home, he sees that everything is nicely decorated, my wife is well-dressed and foodstuff is nicely prepared, he becomes encouraged. He can work more nicely. Therefore woman is the energy. The woman gives the energy and he can work.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: "Thou shall not kidnap your neighbor's wife."

Journalist: Wife, covet.

Prabhupāda: So who is following this?

Journalist: No one. Very few.

Prabhupāda: You see? So how you can expect they're religious. And without religion, human society is animal society.

Journalist: All right, but let me ask you this. Along this line... Now I'm not asking you...

Prabhupāda: Take it. Take it.

Journalist: Thank you. I'm not asking you any of these questions facetiously. Please understand. What does your interpretation, or how does it differ in principle from the basic Jewish-Christian ethic of the Ten Commandments? How does it differ?

Prabhupāda: There is no difference.

Journalist: All right. Then if that's the case what have you to offer... When I say "you" I mean it impersonally.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Journalist: Well that's just about it, that I wanted to know. It's a shame that this kind of thing, as I say, has turned off an awful lot of kids, a lot of very disenchanted young people because...

Prabhupāda: So please try to help us. This movement is very nice. It will help the humanity. It will help your country, the whole human society. It is a genuine movement, there is nothing bluff, nothing cheating. It is authorized. So I'll request you because...

Journalist: Authorized by whom?

Prabhupāda: Authorized from Kṛṣṇa.

Journalist: Is there in India a licensing body by the state for people to preach or to... How in the heck would you say it here?

Prabhupāda: It was not there because in India there are so many churches, and they're supposed to be very saintly person. So simply to become a disciple of a saintly person is sufficient certificate. Just like in your country, marriage requires certificate. In India still, there is no certificate. The boys and girls, they are seated before the relatives and priest and elderly persons. They are offered. I am doing that. There is no certificate. But still their connection is lifelong. What certificate will do? That ceremony is so nice, the wife takes "My husband for life" and the husband takes wife, "She is my companion for life." They cannot separate. There is no history in India that there was a certificate issued. No. But still, their connection is so nice, that life long. Now, they are being westernized, especially I am very sorry to say that lately our so-called westernized leaders they are introducing this Hindu code bill, this marriage certificate, this and that. But formerly they weren't existing.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- February 12, 1969, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: I say, "illicit sex." Without marriage, sex relation is forbidden.

Interviewer: I see. Would you say that there were times when, well, that there were marriages which were also illicit?

Prabhupāda: No. Of course, in civilized human society, either in India or in any other country, marriage is considered as sanctified, either in Hindu community or Christian community or Mohammedan community. But apart from that, for spiritual advancement, according to Vedic culture, sex indulgence is always restricted.

Interviewer: Always restricted. For purposes of procreation only?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Yes. Sex, sex intercourse, is recommended only for good children. That's all.

Interviewer: Only to create children.

Prabhupāda: Yes, good children.

Interviewer: Good children. Well, if the parents are good, then there is a remarkable possibility that the children may have a chance to be. Is that not true?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is the fact. That is the fact.

Radio Interview -- February 12, 1969, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: Is your philosophy, your approach to consciousness, based on the Gītā?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, Bhagavad-gītā. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness means practical understanding of Bhagavad-gītā. This is the sum and substance. I thank you for your capturing the idea. Bhagavad-gītā is the sum and substance of the whole Vedic literature, and it is very nicely explained, things as they are. Unfortunately there are so many interpreters. They interpret the verses in their own way. That is the nonsense of the whole thing. But if Bhagavad-gītā understood as it is, oh, it is a great boon to the human society.

Interviewer: In what... Are there fundamental differences between, or is it simply a difference in approach between your awareness and interpretations and, for example, those of the people who are involved with Zen? With some of the other Eastern concepts? Would you like to...

Prabhupāda: No, of course, I do not know what is Zen conception, or Eastern conception, but we agree with many of them, just like we agree with the concept of God presented by Bible or Koran. That is recognized. And Bhagavad-gītā is so simple that it does not require any interpretation. When things are understood directly, there is no question of interpretation. When things are not understood, then you can interpret, I can interpret. So the verses of Bhagavad-gītā are so simple that there is no question of interpretation. Unfortunately I have seen that in Bhagavad-gītā, commented by a great scholar like Dr. Radhakrishnan, the verse is translated very nicely and that is done by an Englishman, but he interprets in a different way. So when we can understand the thing very nicely, there is no question of interpretation.

Conversation Including Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.1-34 Recitation & Explanation -- April 1, 1969, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Now, what is the purpose of religion? Why human society...? In human society, why there is some sort of religion? The animals, they have got no religion. Therefore if human society gives up the process of religion... Doesn't matter what religion he professes. It doesn't matter. If he doesn't care for religion, that society is no better than animals. That is animal society. Because animals, they have got no religion. So human society, if they have no religion... Must have some religion. It doesn't matter whether Christian or Buddhism or Hinduism or anything. A human being must follow. That is civilized. That is the behavior of civilized world. At the present moment they are neglecting. But in every country, either there may be temples or churches or mosque, people were very religious-minded before this age. I was very much satisfied when I came to New York... no, not only New York. First of all, I went to Pittsburgh, Butler. In that Butler County there were at least one dozen churches, very nice churches. That's a small county. So I was very much satisfied. "Oh, the American people are very religious. They have got these churches." And I saw on Sunday people were attending churches. And in New York also I saw. They may understand or not understand, but that religious spirit is there. You are responding to my appeal because you have got that spirit. Otherwise, why should you come and waste your time with me? So religious principle must be there in the human society. And what is the purpose? Why? The religious principle means that this material life is not happy. And we are searching after happiness. So real happiness is not in this world. You take any, I mean to say, messiaḥ. You take Lord Jesus Christ or Buddha or Lord Caitanya or Kṛṣṇa, or anyone you take. Nobody says that "You make adjustment here and live peacefully." No. Nobody says. You know that. So religious principle means to know that this is not the place to live happily. This is the principle aim of teaching religion. We are trying to live here, making things nicely adjusted, peace and prosperity. That will never be possible. This is foolishness. So religion means, religiously trained mind means he will know that "This is not the place for me. I should (with)draw my attachment for this place, and I must know what is my necessity. I am a spirit soul. I am not this body. Therefore bodily necessities are not all my demands. I must have spiritual necessities also.

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Devotee: Law and order.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Wherefrom the idea came to the human society unless it is there in the Absolute? How the idea comes? Therefore that law and order is Viṣṇu. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The idea of law and order came from Viṣṇu. How nicely explained. Janmādy asya. In two words, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Janma means creation, and ādi, ādi means first janma, then sthiti. Sthiti means staying, maintenance. And then dissolution. So three things. Yataḥ, from where these three things are happening. That means this world is being created from that source, it is being maintained by that source, and when it is annihilated it rests in that energy, the whole energy. Pralayaṁ yānti māmikam, Bhagavad-gītā. When everything is dissolved, the energy is absorbed by the energetic. So that is Absolute Truth. So Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam explains that Absolute Truth. Janmādy asya yata anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ (SB 1.1.1). In the Vedānta-sūtra it is simply said that "The Absolute Truth is that which is the fountainhead of everything." Now if fountainhead of everything, then what the Absolute Truth's nature shall be like? That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The first thing is that janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The factor, the Absolute Truth from which everything is emanating, so that emanation includes indirect and direct manifestation. What is that indirect and direct manifestation? The direct manifestation is the spiritual world and the indirect manifestation is this material world. Indirect manifestation means it is simply a shadow of the spiritual world. Just like in the Bible also it is said the man is made after God. So you have got two hands, one head, two leg.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: And agree with you. Our surrender means we agree with Kṛṣṇa in everything, although we are individual. If Kṛṣṇa says you have to die, we die; out of love. But we are individual, I can deny "Why shall I die?" That reality I have got. Just like Arjuna was asked, "Now I have taught you Bhagavad-gītā, now whatever you like you do," yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63), "as you like." He doesn't touch the individuality. But Arjuna voluntarily surrendered: "Yes," kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73), "yes, I shall do whatever You ask." He changed his decision. He decided not to fight, but he agreed, "Yes," kariṣye vacanaṁ tava. This agreement, this is oneness. Not oneness does not mean mix up homogeneously. No, He keeps his individuality. Kṛṣṇa keeps his individuality, yathecchasi tathā kuru: "Now whatever you like you do." He says, "Yes," kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73), "I shall do what you say." So this is oneness. Not to lose individuality. Because we cannot lose our individuality. We are individually made originally. Kṛṣṇa is individual, we are individual, everyone is individual. Merging means merging in that total agreement. That is liberation. Total agreement without any disagreement. And that is the perfection: to keep individuality and agree with God in total agreement. That is perfection. And imperfection so long we are in rebelled condition that is material because one who has a slightest desire of disagreement with Kṛṣṇa, he cannot live there. There the only predominant figure is Kṛṣṇa. So one who is trained fully to agree with Kṛṣṇa, they are accepted as associates. Bhagavad-gītā says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ pradadyate: (BG 7.19) after many, many births of cultivating knowledge in spiritual life, a fully conversant, wise person surrenders unto Me. Bahūnāṁ janmanaṁ ante: after many, many births. How he surrenders? Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti: (BG 7.19) oh! Kṛṣṇa is everything. The Vedānta-sūtra gives hint, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), what is Brahmā, what is supreme? Athāto brahma jijñāsā, to inquire about Brahmān, the Supreme. The answer is Brahman is that or He who is the original source of everything. We have to find out who is the original source, so that requires wisdom. So when one is perfectly wise after many, many births, cultured, he sees, "Ah, here is the original, Kṛṣṇa," vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19), that mahātmā, great soul, is very rare to be seen, who has surrendered. So our... We are giving the shortcut process: what one has to attain after many, many births, we are simply saying is surrender to Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's all. This is the greatest boon or, what is called, greatest reward or contribution to the human society. And if actually one is wise, then he'll take our word that if one has to come to this point after many, many births, that Kṛṣṇa is everything, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), to understand, why not accept it immediately?

Allen Ginsberg: Do you take rebirth in human form literally?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe (BG 6.41).

Indian Lady: He's so good, because he was so good last time.

Prabhupāda: Children very easily adopt it. So this is the perfect yoga system. No artificial education. Spontaneous response, dancing, Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is the easiest method. So the greatest contribution to the human society. Do it.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, so tomorrow we'll be doing it. So now, the next question I had in my mind is we'll be doing kīrtana, then language, speech. Then end with kīrtana.

Prabhupāda: That is also kīrtana. Kīrtana means kīrtayati. Glorifying. That is kīrtana. So either you sing musically or you speak devotionally, both of them are kīrtana. Just like Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he continually spoke to Mahārāja Parīkṣit. That is also state, śrī viṣṇu... śravaṇe parīkṣit, abhavad vaiyāsakiḥ kīrtane. Vaiyasaki, the son of Vyāsadeva, Sukadeva Gosvāmī, he became liberated simply by kīrtane. But what is that kīrtana? He never played musical way. He simply explained Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So this is also kīrtana. This is called saṅkīrtana. Bahubhir militvā kīrtayati. That is saṅkīrtana.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

So he's creating next body, a very educated young body. By education he can get nice job, nice place, nice position. So he's creating his next body. Similarly, we are creating our next body according to our karma. So Kṛṣṇa says that "You create a body so that you can come to Me." Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. The whole Vedic philosophy is that if you want to go to some planet—just like people are trying to go to moon planet. So you have to create a body like that. You cannot go in this body. They're attempting to go with this body. That will be failure. It will be not possible. In every planet the atmosphere, the..., everything is different. So you have to create a different body to go to a particular type of planet. There are millions and thousands of planets. Moon planet is one of them. Kṛṣṇa says,

yānti deva-vratā devān

pitṛn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ

bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni

mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām

(BG 9.25)

(chuckling) Mad-yājino: "Those who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they'll come to Me." And what is the benefit of going to Kṛṣṇa? He says, mām upetya: "If anyone comes to Me," mam upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15), "he does not come back again to this miserable condition." And aśāśvatam, temporary. Why? Samsiddhim paramam gataḥ. Oh, he has attained the highest perfection, to go back to Kṛṣṇa, mad-yājino 'pi mām, "one who comes to Me." So this is the greatest benediction to the human society, to train them to go back to Kṛṣṇa and dance there with Kṛṣṇa in rasa-līlā. You have seen Kṛṣṇa's rasa-līlā dancing? You have not seen?

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: It is impossible. Our idea is that best ideas from the original idea. Just like in the Bhāgavata there is a description of communistic idea, and it is being described to Mahārāja Yudhisthira. So if there is something good, good experience, why it should not be adopted? That is our point of view. And besides that, in the modern civilization they are missing one point: the aim of human life, scientifically. The aim of human life is self-realization, ātmā-tattvam. It is said, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ yāvan na jijñāsa ātmā-tattvam. Unless the human society comes to the point of self-realization, whatever they are doing, they are being defeated, parābhava. I think you know this word, parābhava. Parābhava. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. So actually it is happening so. The modern society, human society, there is advancement, economic advancement, so many things, advancement. Still, in the matter of keeping peace and tranquility there is fight, individually, socially, politically, nationally. So if we think very cool-headed, then in spite of so much improvement in so many branches of knowledge, we are keeping the same mentality of quarreling. That is also visible in lower animal society. So our conclusion, according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that this body, human body, it is not meant for working very hard for sense gratification. In the modern civilization the ultimate goal, aim, is sense gratification. That's all.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, I agree with you that this was addition of late brāhmaṇas who tried to...

Prabhupāda: No, that, that has killed the Indian culture. You see? Otherwise there was no necessity of division of this Pakistan. Not only that, from history, perhaps you know, this whole planet was Bhāratavarṣa, and it was controlled by one flag up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit. Gradually they separated, separated. This is the history. And late, lately they have separated Pakistan. So Bhāratavarṣa is now crippled into a small piece of land. Otherwise this whole... According to our scripture, Vedic scripture, this, this whole planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. Formerly it was named Ilāvṛtavarṣa, but since the Emperor Bhārata ruled over this planet, it is called Bhāratavarṣa from Mahārāja Bhārata. So this culture, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Vedic culture, were existing... Now any religion you take, Christian religion, Mohammedan religion or Buddhist religion, they are, utmost, two thousand, three thousand old, years old. But this Vedic scripture, you cannot trace out where is the beginning, where is the beginning. It is therefore called sanātana, eternal. And this culture is for the whole human society. It is not a departmental religious faith. Religious faith you can change, but real dharma you cannot change. Just like... You try to understand. Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā, He says:

yadā yadā hi dharmasya

glanīr bhavati bhārata

abhyutthānam adharmasya

tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham

(BG 4.7)

paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ

vināśāya ca duṣkṛtaṁ

(BG 4.8)

Duṣkṛtānam, dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya yuge yuge sambhavāmi. Now, Kṛṣṇa came to establish the religious principles, and in the last stage of speaking He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya māmekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). And that is real dharma, mām ek..., to surrender to the Supreme. That is real dharma. We are surrendering. Anyone, just like you or me, anyone, we are surrendering to somebody. That's a fact. Our, our life is by surrender.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: No, I am not interested. I came to see you especially...

Prof. Kotovsky: Some people from Christian Orthodox Church may be interested to have some discussion.

Prabhupāda: So if there is some discussion, I am prepared. It is, after all, for the whole human society, and it is being practically appreciated. So if there is possibility, I am, for two days I can meet some gentlemen. I can meet.

Prof. Kotovsky: Well, if you can ask Mr. Natarajan from embassy, to perform...

Prabhupāda: No, not, not in that way. If some of your assistant does it, then it is all right because, to tell you frankly, so far our Indian government is concerned, they are not very much interested with this movement. Yes. Their program is different.

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, of course, Indian government program is more and more secular in general ideology, westernized.

Prabhupāda: But of course, people are not very happier. One gentleman... He's in government service. I am speaking, in 19..., sometimes, 1950. He was in statistics department, Mr. Dal(?), Kashmiri gentleman. He was coming to me in Allahabad. He told me that "I went... I go to the villages, and the villagers say, 'Bābuji, angrej ko bahut (indistinct)?' " That was his statement.

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1971, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: We require help from personalities like you, because it is very important movement, checking a great mistake in the modern world. Modern civilization is very risky. Risky in this sense: that the human form of life is an opportunity for self-realization, but our leaders, they are miseducating that "You are this body." A basic mistake. But I am not this body, but just like you are sitting there, if I take account of your shirt and coat only, not you as a person, then there is a great mistake. Similarly, the modern civilization, education, everything is based on this bodily concept of life. But actually we are not body. Body is my shirt and coat. Mind, intelligence and ego, that is the shirt, finer dress. And this five element body—earth, water, fire, air, ether—this is gross. Just like shirt and coat. Similarly, we are dressed, the spirit soul. The spirit soul is also a measure one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very important in this sense, that they are trying to bring people to the constitutional position. A living entity is transmigrating from one body to another, as well in our present body also, we are transmigrating. In my childhood I had a small body. That body is no longer existing, but I am existing. So there is no reason to believe that when I give up this body, I'll not exist. No. I shall exist, but in another body. So people are not interested to make the research work how the soul is working. This is ignorance. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to revive the pure consciousness of the human society so that he can know himself and act accordingly. Then his life is successful.

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1971, Detroit:

Mohsin Hassan: Oh, yes. Wonderful.

Prabhupāda: So we are publishing all our books in a scholarly way so that professors, teachers, philosophers, they, they can read it. And it is very easily done. Word-to-word, Sanskrit word, English, and diacritic marks. So we are working very hard. So if it is introduced among the scholarly sections, professors, teachers, it will be very beneficial to the human society.

Mohsin Hassan: Do you do your printing in Japan and America?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. I am... Whenever I travel, I travel all over, around the world.

Mohsin Hassan: I want to ask... Just a few more minutes. You went to Russia. What's your impression?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Russia is the same people. They are anxious to receive this movement. Very much anxious.

Mohsin Hassan: And are you intent to (indistinct) over there?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mohsin Hassan: I see.

Prabhupāda: But their government is very strict. Government is very strict. So unless we get permission from the government... Because they have no culture in literature. They're simply reading this Lenin book. So one professor, a Dr. Kotovsky, he told me that Indian Rāmāyaṇa, Tulsi dasa's Rāmāyaṇa—that's not very good philosophy—still, it was translated into Russian language, and within a week, all the books are sold. Just see. So they are hankering after this cultural book. Approximately... We have no means now; otherwise there is immense, good field for Kṛṣṇa consciousness in Russia.

Temple Press Conference -- August 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: It's Kṛṣṇa's mission to awaken man's original consciousness. At the present moment we have got designated consciousness. I am thinking "I am Indian," you are thinking Englishman, another is thinking American. But actually we are neither American nor Indian nor any that sort of designation. We are part and parcel of God. That is our real identification. If we come to that consciousness, then all the problems of the world will be solved. Now, due to our designated consciousness, we are thinking, "You are different from me, I am different from you," but if we come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we shall know that we are one, the same spirit soul, maybe in different dress. That is the explanation given in Bhagavad-gītā. Just like we are all human beings, gentlemen, ladies. Maybe in different dress, but our aims and objects are the one and the same. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is purificatory process. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). To make people free from all designations. Tat-paratvena nirmalam. And in Kṛṣṇa consciousness they become purified. And when they're purified their activities by purified senses make them perfect. That is the ideal perfection of human life. And our process is also very simple. There is no need of becoming a great philosopher, scientist, or thoughtful man. Simply by chanting the holy name of the Lord we can immediately contact with the Lord, because the Lord as the person and His name and His quality are all absolute. So this is a great science. Unfortunately, there is no department of education for this science in any one of the so many universities. So we invite, therefore, all kinds of serious men for the welfare of the human society to understand this great movement and if possible take part in it and cooperate with us. That will solve all the problems of the world. That is the verdict of Bhagavad-gītā. Very authoritative book of knowledge. Most of you may know the name Bhagavad-gītā. So our movement is based on this Bhagavad-gītā, the authorized book of knowledge, and approved by big ācāryas in India, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Lord Caitanya. So you are all responsible representatives of papers. Try to understand this movement and ventilate it as far as possible for the good of the whole human society. That's all.

Temple Press Conference -- August 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Woman Interviewer: What is illicit?

Prabhupāda: Illicit sex (is) without marriage, without any relation, sex life, that is illicit sex life.

Woman Interviewer: So sex is allowed in marriage, but not outside.

Prabhupāda: That is animal sex life. Just as animals, they have no relationship and have sex life. But human society there is restriction. In every country, in every religion there is a system of marriage. So without marriage, sex life is illicit sex life.

Woman Interviewer: But sex is allowed within marriage.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is...

Woman Interviewer: And what else would one have to give up for...

Prabhupāda: One has to give up all kinds of intoxicants.

Woman Interviewer: Is that drugs and spirits?

Prabhupāda: Any kind of drug that intoxicates.

Room Conversation -- August 25, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: ...not sentimental. There is no religion, and still, they are professing, "I profess this religion," Where is your religion? If actually there was religion in the human society, why there are so many problems? There should not have been so many problems. The problems are in the animal society. Why there should be problem in human society? Because they have given up the real principles. They are simply animals. Therefore there are so many problems. Actually there is no problem. Even they are not animal. Less than animal. In animal society there is no problem. There is problem, but not so acute. They are free. Just like the ducks, the pigeons, they fly from one country to another. They have no problem of immigration department, passport, or visa. They have no problem. These rascals should understand that they have created problem on account of their animalistic, less than animalistic civilization. There is no limit of sense gratification. The sense gratification, homosex, they are supporting. Just see. Just see. At least, in animal society there is no homosex. They have created homosex, and that is being passed by the priest, the religious heads. You know that?

Devotee: Yes, I've heard.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Christian religion is practically, from the name it appears-Christian and "Kṛṣṇian". Original word of this "Christ" comes from the Greek word "Christo".

Dr. Weir: Anointed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This "Christa" is Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Weir: From the Sanskrit?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṭa is the popular word for Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa is always anointed with tilaka. We follow this tilaka, Kṛṣṇa, anointed, with this sandal pulp. So, so far I think, there is some very nearest relationship with this Christian and "Kṛṣṇia". Kṛṣṭa means love, love of Godhead or love. We are preaching also the same philosophy. Try to... Not try. The love of Kṛṣṇa is there in everyone's heart, but it is covered. And being covered, it is misplaced. We are loving our society, loving this body, loving our family, loving our kinsmen, or loving internationally human society. But this love is actually perverted reflection of real love of God. Because the love is not placed in the real place. Therefore we are being frustrated in love. Just like in our country Mahatma Gandhi, he loved his country very much. But at the last moment the countrymen shot him down. He was shot down by his own countrymen. The love was paid by (sic:) shooting him and he lost his life. There are many instances.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: Socrates, Christ, plenty.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So here the love propensity is being misplaced in this material world. That should be placed in God. Then the love will be perfection. Just like if you pour water on the leaves of the tree or branches of the tree it is simply a waste of time. If you pour water on the root then the effect of pouring water is distributed. Similarly, foodstuff, if you place the foodstuff on your nose, on your eyes or your ears, it is simply wasted. But if you put foodstuff to the mouth in the stomach immediately the energy derived from the foodstuff is distributed throughout the whole body. Similarly, if you love God then your, automatically your love is distributed to everyone, every entity. But if you don't love, if you simply love your country... Just like an Englishman, you love your country; German, he loves his country, but there is fight between the English and the Germans because the love is misplaced. But if the Germans or the Englishmen or the Indians they put their love in God there will be no more fighting. Therefore our philosophy is to educate people how to love God. That is real religion. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That is first-class religion which teaches the follower how to love God. And as soon he becomes a lover of God... Just like I am Indian, but I have come to western countries to teach love of God. It is not that I am satisfied only in myself that I love God, that's all right. But due to my love to God I love others also, because I am trying to teach them to love God, the same philosophy. So if people take seriously this movement, how to love God, then human society will be first-rate.

Dr. Weir: May I suggest you've already made one contribution from India which is almost the antithesis, and corroborate your suggestion about pouring water on the root. We do get leaves from India, we pour water on them and we make that delicious drink, tea, which is one of those drinks which are used for inculcating the brotherhood of man.

Prabhupāda: That's all right but do you think it is natural to pour water on the leaves?

Dr. Weir: Well, why not then, that for leaves, water's natural.

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Caturthaḥ(?) platform. And that is possible by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says,

māṁ ca (yo) 'vyabhicāreṇa

bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītya etān

brahma-bhūyāya kalpate

(BG 14.26)

So two sides we are trying, to define the natural division of human society. The intelligent class, the administrator class, the productive class, and the worker class. There is natural division. You cannot say that everywhere simply there are intelligent class of men. No. Because we are infected with the three kinds of the material modes. You cannot expect all men are on the same level. That is not possible. Someone is in the modes of goodness, someone is in the modes of passion, someone is in the modes of ignorance, and someone is in the modes of mixture. That is the natural division—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaisya, śūdra. Those who are purely in goodness, they are brāhmaṇa. Next to that, passion, kṣatriya. And next to that, vaiśya, mixture. And next to that, śūdra. And next to that, caṇḍāla.

Dr. Singh: But is it not necessary today for each person to have..., for example, he's got to have his..., he's got to have knowledge of the dharma. He's got to have the capacity to act...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Singh: ...of the kṣatriya.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: I'll be getting married the end of this summer, in September or August, when I return to America. And the devotees say that the householders only have sex to conceive a child. And I cannot picture myself at all in such a position, and... What kind of sex life can one lead, living in the material world?

Prabhupāda: The Vedic principle is that one should avoid sex life altogether. The whole Vedic principle is to get liberation from this material bondage. And there are different attachments for this material enjoyment, out of which sex life is the source of topmost enjoyment. The Bhāgavata says that this material world... Puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etam (SB 5.5.8). Means that a man is attached to woman and woman is attached to man. Not only human society, in animal society also. That attachment is the basic principle of material life. So, a woman is hankering or seeking after the association of a man, and a man is hankering or seeking the association of a woman. Just like we see the, all the fictions, novels, dramas, this cinema, or even ordinary advertisement, simply they depict the attachment between man and woman. Even in tailor's shop you'll find on the window some woman, some man. (break) So this attachment is already there.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: To reduce it over the stages of your life?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Reduce it, just like a boy is trained up as a student up to twenty-five years, restricting sex life. Brahmacārī. So, some of the boys they remain naiṣṭhika-brahmacārī. He, because he's given education, so if he becomes fully conversant he doesn't like to marry. But one who has not such restraint, he's allowed to marry. That is also restricted, that he cannot have sex life without being married. Therefore in the human society there is marriage, not in the animal society. But we are reducing human society gradually to animal society. We are forgetting marriage. That is also written in the śāstras. Svīkāra eva codvāhe. In the Kali-yuga there will be no marriage performances, but the boy and the girl, they'll simply agree to live together. Dāmpatye 'bhirucir hetuḥ. And their relationship will exist on sexual power. If the man or the woman is deficient in sex life, then there is divorce. So on this philosophy... There are many western philosophers like Freud and others. They have written so many books. But according to Vedic culture, we are not interested. We are interested only for begetting children. That's all. Not to study the psychology of sex life. There is already psychology, pravṛtti, natural. Even if one does not read any philosophy, he'll be sexually inclined. There is no need of philosophizing sex life. Nobody is taught sex life in the school and the colleges, but everyone knows it, how to do it. (laughs) So pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalam. That is the general tendency. But education should be given to stop it. That is real education.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: But when you have some knowledge of God, then life is not so miserable.

Prabhupāda: No, some knowledge will not do. You must have perfect knowledge. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). Tattvataḥ means perfect. That perfect knowledge is being taught in the Bhagavad-gītā. So, we are giving chance to the human society to learn Bhagavad-gītā as it is and make his life perfect. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. What your science says about the transmigration of the soul?

Bob: I think that science cannot deny it, by scientific methods cannot deny it, or does scientific method show it. Science does not know of it.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say, imperfect science.

Bob: Science may, though, say something. It is said in science that energy is never destroyed. It is just changed.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but how the energy is working in future, that science does not know.

Bob: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: How the energy is diverted, how by different manipulation the energy is working differently. Just like electric energy, by different handling it is creating heater and it is creating cooler. Just opposite. But the same electric energy. So similarly, these energies, living energy, how it is being directed, which way it is going, how it is fructifying in the next life, so they do not know. They do not know. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is very simplified. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). You are covered by this dress, by this shirt. When this shirt is not workable you change it. Similarly, this body is just like shirt and coat, when it is no longer workable, we have to change.

Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:

Prabhupāda: "One who is actually learned, he sees everyone equally, either he is a very learned scholar or he is a dog or he is a caṇḍāla or he is an elephant." So how the learned scholar and dog can be seen on the equal level? Not that the dog and the learned scholar is equal, but seeing them equally means to see the spirit soul within the body. That vision. Outwardly, by the body, one is learned scholar and one is a dog. That is outwardly. But inwardly, everyone is spirit soul, Brahman. That is called brahma-darśana. So if people are taught about this philosophy, then all these distinctions and creation of different kinds of problems—the Chinese or Communists, the Americans or capitalists, and so many differences we have created, and for that purpose there is fight, there is competition, there is enmity, enviousness, so this is due to ignorance. Or, in one word, it is due to lack of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore we have taken this path of our social improvement in the human society. Let us cooperate. So this is nice place. You have decorated nice. Everything is nice so far the little place is concerned. How many rooms you have got?

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Martin: How is human life better than that?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Martin: How is the human life better than the demigod?

Prabhupāda: Better than in this way, that just like here also on this planet, those who are richer section, they particularly do not care to know what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They're proud, puffed-up for material opulence. "Ah, what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Let us enjoy drink." That is their position. So it is a curse for them. Their richness is a curse for them, that they cannot adore such a nice movement. The middle class section, they are being attracted. Similarly, the demigods, they have got very, very high standard of life, duration of life, beauty, opulence, facilities, so generally they forget. Not forget; they are servant. Just like government servant does not mean a devotee. So they are devotee, officially devotee. They, they offer their obeisances to Kṛṣṇa. (Sanskrit), worship by Lord Siva or Brahma, but their devotion is conditional because they're posted in such high post, so they may remain in their post. In this way, exchange. But in the human society you'll find devotees, there is no question of exchange; it is simply love. (more thunder)

Martin: These demigods are what we call angels?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: So how does science fit in with all of this?

Prabhupāda: Hm? Let him speak.

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:

Devotee: We are thinking of (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Or anyone, you can do. Then you have to reorganize the zones, fifteen zones.

Rūpānuga: This is much better if we're actually expanding.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we must expand, we must expand. Now the framework of expansion is done by me, but this, they should be solidified. Just like your skyscraper building. The framework is done then they are made nicely air-conditioned and covered by glass (indistinct). It makes a nice house. Similarly, so far the framework is done. I have done with your help. Now we have to push this movement. It is very important movement. It is not a farce. It is actually for the benefit of the human society. They are kept in darkness about God. And we are delivering God, "Here is God." So that must be pushed. What is your opinion?

Devotee: Jaya!

Prabhupāda: They are kept in darkness about God. Somebody is speaking, saying "God is dead." Some is (saying), "God is impersonal. There is not God. I am God, you are God," all this nonsense. Here is God. We have to push this. What do you think, Hayagrīva Prabhu? So, Hayagrīva Prabhu is taking charge of pushing this movement by help in editorial work. So that is most important because we are distributing books. Our writing will be gospel.

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:

Śyāmasundara: He can oversee some foreign...

Prabhupāda: Yes, he has this book department. Book department and... They may move according to convenience, Bali-mardana and Karandhara. He has got also very responsibility, with this department, that department. He has to purchase small houses. So big brain (indistinct). So similarly, you also think on the books. Everyone take big responsibility. Then we have to serve this mission. The people are foolish, they have forgotten God. We are delivering them. Best service. And without God, it is all useless, zero, all this civilization. Zero. Whatever they are making advancement, it is all zero. And nonsense. But actually it is. Now the priestly order supporting homosex. I was surprised. They are going to pass resolution for getting married between man to man. The human society has come down to such a degraded position. It is astonishing. When I heard from Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja there is a big conference for passing this resolution. In India still, if there somebody hears about homosex (makes sound of breathing out). Homosex is there but nobody will support publicly. (indistinct) People are going down and this is the subject matter for priestly order? It may be subject matter for the legislator, priestly order, they are discussing for one week. Just imagine. Phalena paricīyate, one has to study by the result. Not that superficially you show that "We are very much advanced." Phalena, what is the result? Phalena paricīyate, your, that is in English word also, end justifies the means. The end is this (indistinct) "We are going to support homosex." Getting married. There are many cases the priestly order has actually got married. I read it in that paper, Watch, what is called?

Devotees: Watchtower.

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

John Fahey: None.

Prabhupāda: No. There is difference. That one should understand. There is difference. A man should not live like cats and dogs, because he has got a mission.

John Fahey: Mission?

Prabhupāda: Mission. That mission is God realization. Cats and dogs cannot do it; human beings can do it. Therefore in any civilized human society, there is a type of religion. May be Christian religion or Mohammedan religion or Hindu religion or Buddhist—there is religion. But you cannot find this religious system in the animal kingdom of life. That is the difference. If we give up this religious consciousness or God consciousness, then we are as good as cats and dogs. That is the only difference. You go anywhere, any part of the world, and civilized human beings, they have got a system, which you may call religion or philosophy, to understand God. That prerogative is especially for the human beings. But if you do not care for that special prerogative, then you are as good as animal. What is the difference between animal and human being unless he has got some method of understanding God? The animal eats and we also eat. The animals sleep; we also sleep. The animals have sexual intercourse; we have got also. They are also afraid of something; we are also afraid of something. Then what is the difference?

John Fahey: They cannot understand God(?).

Prabhupāda: That is the difference. A human being can understand what is God, what is my relationship with God, what is my duty in that relationship, what is my aim of life, where I shall go after death, wherefrom I have come. These questions must be there in human form of life; otherwise we are still in the animal kingdom.

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Well vegetarians are not animals. (laughter) In India, you'll still you'll find ninety-percent of the population, they're vegetarians, strictly. Always vegetarians. They're quite healthy, they're working. Therefore vegetarians are human beings. Vegetables, that food is meant for human beings. That is natural. For a human being to become nonvegetarian is unnatural. And to become vegetarian, that is natural. Just like our teeth, it is meant for cutting vegetables, fruit, not meat. You will find cutting by these teeth, meat, it will be difficult. But you take any vegetable, any fruit, you can immediately cut. Our medical laws says that anything eatable which you cannot cut with the teeth and smash it properly, it will not be digested. So fruits and vegetables you can properly cut even raw, not to speak of cooked. Raw vegetables and raw fruits, you can cut with these teeth and smash it and you swallow, it will be nicely digested. You get all food value. But you cannot do in that way, raw meat. It is not possible. You cannot take raw meat or bite one animal and take some flesh out of it. You cannot. But animal can do that. They are made for that purpose. But that is natural. If you take your natural food, if you live naturally, if you fulfill your natural desires, then it is natural. And as soon as you go against these things, that is unnatural. So if you give up your natural tendency as human being and take artificially the way of life of an animal, that is not natural. In human society the..., however uncivilized human being, there is the process of covering this private part. Even in jungle they cover with the bark of tree. Why? That is the human being. But an animal in the jungle, they do not care. They can go, the same jungle—I don't speak of the city life—even in jungle life, the aborigines, still they have got some cover. Now they are becoming naked, natural life, nudism. Huh? That John Lennon, there is a picture in his sitting room, standing naked. This is madness. That is not natural life. If you go against your natural life, that is madness. Just like a madman walks on the street naked. So these are... So our mission is to advise everyone, educate everyone to become exactly like human being. That you can become by understanding God. The books, educational institutions, are meant for human being, for knowledge. All the books all over the world, they are not meant for cats and dogs. They are meant for human beings. The schools, colleges and universities, institutions, they are meant for human being, not for the cats and dogs. So we must take advantage of these books, institution, knowledge, teachers. That is real human life. Just like your guitar.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are part. Yes, we are part of Kṛṣṇa.

Guest (2): If we are all part of Kṛṣṇa, then what does it matter whether we really worry about becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious or not? We already are part of Kṛṣṇa, so whether we are conscious or not, we are there, you know, and it really doesn't need any effort at all.

Prabhupāda: Then you are part of human society. Then why you are trying to improve your position?

Devotee: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: Why you are trying?

Guest (2): To be more powerful.

Prabhupāda: Just see. You do not know. You have forgotten the power, part of Kṛṣṇa. What is the function of part of Kṛṣṇa. You are thinking you are part of this material world. That is the difficulty.

Guest (2): Yes, but that is what Kṛṣṇa gave me, though.

Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa... You have taken it.

Guest (2): The moment my body is manufactured...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Kṛṣṇa says that.

Guest (2): Yes, that is provided He gives me that...

Prabhupāda: Not "provided." There is no "provided." Kṛṣṇa says this. This is Kṛṣṇa's order, that "You give up all nonsense. Simply surrender unto Me." That is your business. But you are thinking, "No, I am part of this world. I must work in this world. I must have this. I must have that." That is your thinking. Kṛṣṇa's order is, "Simply surrender unto Me." That's all. But you are thinking, "How can I surrender?" And that is your business. If you do not surrender, then you go. See to your own business. So whatever you are creating, you are creating by yourself. "Man is the architect of his own fortune." So you are creating your fortune and misfortune, both. Kṛṣṇa is giving you facilities. "All right, you want this? All right, take this."

Interview -- July 20, 1972, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So we are giving a message by which everyone can be happy in this life and next life also. Generally all religious sects they do not believe in the next life. Or even they believe they have no clear idea of the next life.

Frenchman: What is the present hope of the human society even beyond death?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Human society is... Human life is an opportunity to stop all the problems of material life. So if he does not do so, if he does not understand or take to this business how to solve all the problems of life, then he's missing the opportunity. We are giving very nice idea what is next life, how we can elevate to the topmost spiritual planet, how we can live eternally, peacefully, with full knowledge. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for all these purpose.

Frenchman: In society, the consumer society, (indistinct) miseries, what is the message you can bring people even in this day?

Prabhupāda: Yes. By accepting this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement they will be moralists, they will be religionists, they will be first-class (indistinct), first-class politician, everything perfect by accepting Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Interview with the New York Times -- September 2, 1972, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That is nothing. That period of time is relative. As human beings, we live for some time-say for a hundred years—but there are demigods who can live for millions of years. And an ant will live for only a few hours. So this is relative. But time is eternal, and what is happening in so-called human history has no consideration from the viewpoint of eternal time. That is all relative. If there is some catastrophe in ant society, the ants may be very much concerned, but human society does not take any notice of it. Similarly, if a catastrophe occurs in human society, the demigods, who are higher than us, do not consider it. Some birds or cats or dogs may be fighting, and for them it may be a catastrophe, but for us it is nothing. This is the relative world, and we should know that what has happened in this world is not worthy of consideration in terms of universal affairs. Things are coming and going like seasonal changes. Arjuna put this question to Kṛṣṇa: "This is a catastrophe! I have to kill my own men." Although Arjuna believed this to be a catastrophe, Kṛṣṇa likened it to seasonal changes. Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14). "O son of Kuntī, the non-permanent appearance of happiness and distress and their disappearance in due course are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer seasons." In the winter season water is not very pleasant, but in the summer it is very pleasing. What then, is the condition of water? Is it pleasing or not? The water is the same, but in touch with our skin it becomes pleasing or not according to the climatic circumstances. Just because the summer is hot, should I give up cooking? Work must be done. Similarly, just because water is cold in the winter, should I give up my bath? No. These things may come and go, but we have to do our duty. Our duty is Kṛṣṇa consciousness; that is our philosophy, and that is an actual fact. These seasonal changes may come and go in life; sometimes they may please us, and sometimes they may pinch us, but our duty in human life is to understand God. We shouldn't care for all these catastrophes that come and go. We should have no concern, for their nature is like that—sometimes pleasing and sometimes not pleasing. Despite all this, we have to do our duty, understand God.

Interview with the New York Times -- September 2, 1972, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Are the misconceptions cleared?

John Nordheimer: I hope so.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we invite everyone to come here to listen to our philosophy, take prasādam and sing and dance with us. This program is very nice. We do not make distinctions in human society. We do not say that we shall serve the Indians and not the Americans or the Americans and not the Africans. We are going everywhere with this movement. We take all human beings to be part and parcel of God. Not only human beings, but every living entity—animals also.

John Nordheimer: How many followers do you have?

Prabhupāda: Well, this is a very difficult job, naturally. We don't have a large number of followers. As soon as you try to sell a diamond, you cannot expect many customers. Nonetheless, a diamond is a diamond, even if there are no customers. The number of customers is not the test. The customer must pay the value of the item. In this society we propose that you give up illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling. When people hear this, they go away saying, "Oh, Swamiji is very conservative." But I cannot become liberal and tell everybody, "Go ahead and do all nonsense and you can become God conscious." I cannot possibly recommend that. Therefore my first condition is that if someone wants to become my student he has to follow these four regulative principles.

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: It is a fact. Just like this child is transmigrating from one body, one kind of body to another body. So in the same way, when I give up this body I transmigrate to another body. This is the science. Unfortunately, there is no university, no education, no culture of this great science. Therefore according to Bhāgavatam, the knowledge is imperfect. The knowledge which are imparting from universities, they are not perfect knowledge. And this human form of body is the opportunity to understand the position of the soul and how he is transmigrating from one body to another, what is happening next. In this way, in this human form of body, we can understand this science, science of soul. Unfortunately, no education is there to understand this science. So in other words, it may be taken that the modern civilization is killing the prerogative of the human being. He has got a chance to understand himself and to stop. He can stop this repetition of birth and death. He can remain in a spiritual form in the spiritual kingdom or with God, but these things are unknown to him, because there is no discussion in any university or any institution of knowledge. Although the Vedic literature gives us ample information of this—in the the Bhagavad-gītā, that is the preliminary study of all Vedic literature—but there is no chance for the people to understand. This is the defect of the modern civilization. Therefore it is necessary. And actually, because there is no sufficient knowledge of the position, I see the American boys and girls, although they are coming out very rich and respectable family, they are turning to hippies. In spite of your arrangement for very big, big university, they are becoming frustrated. They are no longer satisfied to live materially opulent like their fathers and grandfathers. In other countries also, the same symptoms are there. Just like in India, the Naxalites. So that is another form of confusion. In your country the confusion state is a different kind. Another type is another confusion. In China also there is another type of confusion. In Russia also there is another type of confusion. So the present position of the human society is very dangerous because everyone is feeling dissatisfaction for confusion.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: I see. Very nice. So have you read our, this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is?

Guest (2): Yes.

Prabhupāda: You like it?

Guest (2): (indistinct) because when I was in India (indistinct).

Prabhupāda;: So religion must be there. Without religion the human society is animal society. There must be religion. And religion means to know God. That is religion. What is your explanation of religion?

Guest (2): Actually (indistinct) religion has to be defined as (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: What is that (indistinct)

Guest (2): (indistinct) to understand religion is (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. They must be the same. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣad bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Religion means the course, or the laws given by God. Just like law means the law given by the state. I cannot manufacture law. The citizen cannot manufacture law. The law is manufactured by the legislative assembly of the government. Similarly, religion means the order given by God. Now we have to understand who is God, and what is His order, and how it is applicable to everyone. That is the system of religion. We cannot whimsically give some rituals as religion. The principle of religion is to obey the orders of God. Therefore the first principle is to know who is God. Unless I know what is God, then how I can know what is His order? So in the Bhagavad-gītā, the religion is given that—(Aside:) you are feeling sleepy, you can go—the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is religion. We have manufactured so many types of religion, and here God says that "You give up your manufactured religion. You just surrender unto Me." This is religion. Religion means to surrender. A good citizen means to surrender to the government law. Similarly, a religious person means who has surrendered to God. Nowadays it has become a regrettable fashion that everyone is God, when we surrender to one. And this false prestige that "I am God. I haven't got to surrender to anyone. I am God. What surrender?" This atheism is going on and spoiling the whole human society. God has become so cheap. Any nonsense can claim, "I am God." That is the defect of the modern society. There is a great necessity to understand God. If everyone is God then where is the necessity of religion? If everyone is president then where is the necessity of lawmaking? So this is going on. This is very unfortunate situation. What is your idea?

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Scholar: But we think in the present day, Indonesia's, we think about harmonizing spiritual and material aspects of life, this our...

Prabhupāda: No. No. Harmonize means... First of all you must know what is harmonization. Harmonization means that this material life means bodily concept of life. This is material life. "I am this body." Generally people think like that: "I am Indonesian." "I am American." "I am Hindu." "I am Muslim." And they take care of the country where he's born. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tridhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijyadhīḥ, but this conception, bodily conception of life, has made the whole human society like cats and dogs. "It is my land. It is my..." Just like a dog. As soon as another dog comes. "Bark, bark, bark, bark. Why you have come here? Why you have come here." So this, this kind of harmonization is dog civilization.

Scholar: Well I think it's the...

Prabhupāda: No. No. No. You cannot... First of all you have to understand what is spiritual value of life. Then you can harmonize. If you do not know what is spiritual life, then what you can harmonize? That is the teaching of Bhagavad-gītā. In the beginning, when Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as guru, then He began to explain about the value of life. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam (BG 2.13), find out this verse. It's in the Second Chapter. Which verse?

Devotee: Two, thirteen.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Scholar: No, we don't know that. (indistinct) varieties of bodies.

Prabhupāda: There are forms of body in the water, in the land, so many trees, plants and there are so many insects, reptiles. Then birds, then there are beasts, then there are human being. So there are 8,400,000 forms of body. Here it is indicated that after giving up this body, the soul is going to accept another body. Now the human civilization, is it not duty of the human society to know what kind of body I am going to accept?

Scholar: No, I think it's up to God and karma-kāṇḍa.

Prabhupāda: So then they must know what is karma-phala. This is a fact. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). But they are..., do not know how to execute karma. They're doing all kinds of sinful activities. So, suppose after this body, on account of my sinful activities, I am going to become a rat or cat or snake or a tree, then what is the use of my so much, how you'd say, jumping over nationalism and this ism and that. If by nature I am going to accept next life the body of a cat and dog, or a tree, then what is the meaning of my, this so-called nationality at the present moment? Is it not the duty of the guardians who are taking care of the people or their son, to educate human being in such a way that they can get better body? What is that education? You are darkness, nobody knows what kind of body he's going to accept next life.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: But they're not living, they're not living. They are doing all kinds of sinful activities, they are drinking, they are having illicit sex, they're gambling, they're killing animals. Very sin... Everyone is engaged in these things. Maybe few percentage people are not engaged. But the throughout the whole world they're implicated in these four kinds of sinful activities. How you can expect that he's going to have next body very nice? No. That is not possible if you believe in karma. According to karma... Just like here in the human society there is law that if you kill a man, you should be also killed. Similarly, in God's laws so the same law is there. Māṁ sa, māṁsa. If I eat an animal then he will have the chance to eat me next life. This is karma. Who is caring for all these things? Who is caring? Nobody's caring. They're slaughtering animals like anything. So this kind of adjustment will not help. They must know scientifically what is the value of life. They must take information from authorized scriptures. Then the human society will be profitable. Otherwise no. Just like there is next life, a boy is educated to have good education so that in the next life—means when he's young man—he will be happy. He's preparing for the next life. The boy is being educated. That means he's preparing for the next youthful life. Youthful life is meant for preparation for the next old age life. Then what we are preparing now for the next body? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:

yānti deva-vratā devān

pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ

bhutāni yānti bhūtejyā

yānti mad-yājino 'pi mām

(BG 9.25)

So where is that education?

Scholar: I think it's also according to the society. First we have to learn and after we come to the stage of sannyāsī, only then we are...

Prabhupāda: It is no question of sannyāsa, sannyāsa you take or not take, you must be in knowledge what is your next life.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: If he does not know, if he is in darkness for the next life, then what is the meaning of this gṛhastha and vānaprastha and this...?

Scholar: We believe in the stage of life so we prepare from childhood and after ...

Prabhupāda: Yes, not only we, but everyone should prepare from the childhood. This is... This Bhagavad-gītā is not meant for a particular class of men. It is meant for the human society. So this education should be spread all over the world to save them from pitfalls of a life of darkness. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We do not mean that the Bhagavad-gītā is meant for the Hindus, or for the Indians, or for the Indonesians. No, no, it is meant for everyone. They should know the science.

Scholar: Are there Christian also, or Muslim also joining this...

Prabhupāda: What's this? Can't you see? There are many Christians, many...

Scholar: Do they have to be Hindus first?

Prabhupāda: Well, why you are stressing to become Hindu and Christian? It is that education for understanding the values of life.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Scholar: But by using threads, attributes of Hindu religion...

Prabhupāda: No, actually... Hindu, the word is not to be found in our Vedic scripture. It is the name given by the Mohammedans. So that is going on. Actually it is called varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas, four āśrama. The four varṇas, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And four āśramas-brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Combined together it is called varṇāśrama. So unless the human being follows this varṇāśrama principle he's not a human being. He's animal, because animal has no varṇa, no āśrama. The human society must be divided. Then, just like in this body there are four divisions—the head division, the arms division, the belly division, and the leg division—all these are required for complete body. Although, by comparative study, head is the most important department, but still the leg is not... that we don't require leg. Leg is also required. Similarly, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, they're required to function the society perfectly. That is varṇa. And similarly, for spiritual emancipation there must be the division: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. So unless you accept this institution perfectly you cannot develop your consciousness as perfect human being.

Scholar: This divisions only in Hindus?

Prabhupāda: No, this division is meant for everyone.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Whatever you like.

Scholar: Whatever you like.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Whatever you like. That independence is there always. But he has... Just like we are speaking. This is the aim of life. Now if you like then take, you'll not take—that depends on your independence. So that independence is all... Before that independence is there, therefore we are sometimes degrading from this human life to cats' and dogs' life. So it is the duty of the human society to save the human being to degrade, from becoming again cats and dogs, or to elevate him higher and higher. Does it mean that we are, we shall be satisfied with our present stage of life without knowing what we are going to accept? Is that very nice proposal? Or we shall try to elevate the human society, that is higher.

Scholar: Our aim is the same, to elevate the human being, but...

Prabhupāda: But then you have to accept the means.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: If you do not accept the means, simply expecting that our aim is the same, will not act. You have to accept the means. That means, it is explained in the next verse, sixty-four, sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). What is that? Sixty-four?

Scholar: Sixty-four, sarva-guhyatamaṁ bhūyaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sarva-guhyatamaṁ bhūyaḥ śṛṇu me paramaṁ vacaḥ, iṣṭo 'si me dṛḍham iti tato vakṣyāmi te hitam. Then sixty-five, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), mām evaiṣyasi satyaṁ te pratijāne priyo 'si me. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: So one has to become... If one is actually eager and serious for fulfilling the aim of human life then he has to take to this principle of Kṛṣṇa consciousness-man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, mām evaiṣyasi satyaṁ te pratijāne priyo 'si me. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So one has to become, if one is actually eager and serious for fulfilling the aim of human life, then he has to take to this principle of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, mām evaiṣyasi satyaṁ te pratijāne priyo 'si me (BG 18.65). So if you do not teach this lesson to the human society then he will remain in the darkness. This is the purport. This is the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā.

Scholar: Mām here means Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Scholar: Or Brahmā.

Prabhupāda: Why you bring Brahmā? Then you have not understood Kṛṣṇa.

Scholar: We are asking.

Prabhupāda: Why you are asking? Because you do not understand what is Kṛṣṇa.

Scholar: (indistinct) here.

Prabhupāda: You are asking because you do not understand Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Tripurāri: Six volumes. They held the Bhāgavatams and said: "Thank you very much." And then they put them in their lockers and they were waiting for their plane and they each had the First Canto...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Any sincere man will feel obliged of our, this propaganda movement. "By distributing these books, you are doing a great service to Kṛṣṇa." He wanted to say everyone: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). He comes, therefore. So anyone who is doing the same service, that: "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa," he is recognized by Kṛṣṇa very nicely. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu (BG 18.69). In the human society, nobody is dearer than him who is helping preaching work. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Brahmānanda: We are simply your puppets, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You're giving us the books.

Prabhupāda: No. We are all set of puppets of Kṛṣṇa. I am also puppet. Puppet. This is disciplic succession. We, we have to become puppet. That's all. As I am puppet of my Guru Mahārāja, if you become my puppet, then that is success. Our success is there when we become puppet of the predecessor. Tāṅdera caraṇa sevi bhakta sane vāsa. To live in the society of devotees and to become puppet of the predecessor ācārya. This is success. So we are trying to do that. Kṛṣṇa consciousness society and serve the predecessor. That's all. Harer nāma harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21). (pause) People will come. People will appreciate our propaganda. It will take some time.

Morning Walk -- April 25, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Without the proper guidance...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, everything requires guidance. You are working in the laboratory under guidance. Similarly, everything requires guidance. Just like these small birds. First of all, they learn with the mother. The mother goes and they go. The mother come back, they come back. So guidance. Nature's way, guidance. And when they become little habituated, then without mother, they can do their business. That guidance is there everywhere. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... (pause—break) ...kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti (BG 8.15). "Anyone who reaches Me, he does not come back to this material world full of miseries and temporary life." That means anyone who goes back to home, back to Godhead, there is no misery, there is no temporary life. It must be the opposite. Mām upetya punar janma duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti (BG 8.15). Saṁsiddhiṁ paramām... That is highest perfection. Paramām. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramām. Every... all this scientific research is going on for perfection. They say the world is imperfect. That's, that is a fact. Imperfect. Imperfect means here you cannot get happiness and cannot live permanently. This is imperfection. That they do not know. That question they set aside. The problem, if you say to the scientist: "What you have done for the human society to live eternally in perfect happiness?" What is their answer?

Brahmānanda: They do just the opposite. They accelerate the death and they create more problems.

Prabhupāda: That's it. That's it.

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: If you know Kṛṣṇa, the Absolute Truth, then all other things will be known automatically. It is such a thing. We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, challenging all kinds of men in the society, so many scientists are coming, so many psychologists coming. So how we are confident to talk with him? Because we have learned little about Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Is it not? You are a qualified scientist. Why I challenge you? Not that because you are my disciple, you are accepting all my challenges. You have got your reasons. You are not a fool. So how it is possible? Practically, how it is possible? Because we are trying to know little about Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Therefore this Vedic injunction, yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati, yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. These statements are there. If you get Kṛṣṇa, then you will not hanker after any more profit. Bas. All profit is there. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābham. If you get Kṛṣṇa, then all other kinds of profit, you'll not hanker after. And what kind of profit this is? Yasmin sthito na duḥkhena guruṇāpi vicālyate (Bg. 6.20-23). If one is situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in the greatest calamity of this world, he'll not be disturbed. This is the greatest profit. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. A big giant, Hiraṇyakaśipu, is putting him always in difficulty, but he's confident: "Yes, there is Kṛṣṇa." A five years old boy. He's not at all disturbed. Father is giving poison. "All right, give me poison." And throwing him from the hill on down. But he is steady. How it is possible? Na duḥkhena guruṇāpi vicālyate. Guru. Guru means heavy, very heavy difficulties. But na vicālyate. He's not perturbed, not disturbed. How it is possible? It is such a thing, that if you know Kṛṣṇa, you know everything. If you are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you are not disturbed in the heaviest type of calamity. So these things should be given to the human society. One thing. That will make his life perfect. Is it not?

Morning Walk -- May 1, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The sun is a product of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, energy. Yac cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala grahāṇām. Sun is working under the order of... Just like if you don't see the managing director or the proprietor of a firm, the immediate boss who is controlling you, you have to obey. In the office or in the factory. Similarly, you cannot see directly God, but God's agent is working. Why don't you obey? God's agent is working? How it is working? Yasyājñayā bhramati saṁbhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ, exactly in time by the order of Kṛṣṇa, rising exactly in the time, without any deviation even by 1/10,000th part of a second, astrological calculation. Is it not? So how it is working? Under whose order it is working? Śāstra says, "By the order of Kṛṣṇa." Yasya ājñayā. "Under whose order he is working," govindam ādi-puruṣam, "I worship that Govinda." The śāstra is giving you information, that he is working under, he must be working under... Otherwise why it is so accurate, so punctual, unless there is some direction? Unless there is order of God, why this big ocean is so obedient, it is not coming here? Why don't you study like this? Where is the difficulty? There must be some direction that "You Pacific Ocean, you are so big, that's all right, but you cannot come here. Remain up to this." Otherwise why you are feeling so safety although in the front of a big ocean. If the ocean likes, within a second, he can finish us immediately. But she will not do, because there is order. Similarly sun. Sun is also moving under the order. You have to study like that. If you do not see God, see how God's order is being carried out. Then you will understand. Just like we do not see President Nixon. But you know there is direction, and the government is going is going on under his direction. That we can know. This is seeing of God to see how things are going on under His order. That is seeing of God. Just like from long distant place like this hills, we are seeing, but at the same time not seeing distinctly. You are seeing those, but you do not see the detail. Similarly you are seeing God by these things, but because you are not so powerful, you are not seeing Him in detail. But you are seeing God. You cannot say that "I don't see God." How can you say? These are the directions. You are seeing that things are going on under direction. Yasyājñayā. Therefore you have to... śāstra yonitvāt. The Vedānta says, "You have to understand God through śāstra;" by the scriptures you have to understand. śāstra yonitvāt. Everything is there. The śāstra gives you direction. Therefore human being is meant to study the śāstras. The śāstras, Vedic literature, is meant for the human being, not for the cats and dogs. If you don't consult the śāstras, then you remain a cats and dogs. That's all. Why you are taking so much trouble, writing śāstra, explaining to you? So that you may come to the real platform from the platform of cats and dogs. That is our mission. That is the duty of the spiritual master. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. The spiritual master is the most beneficent friend, he is giving you direction from the śāstra. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau: "He is the real welfare worker for the human society." Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau tri-bhuvane mānyau śaraṇyākarau, rādhā-kṛṣṇa-padāravinda-bhajanānandena mattālikau vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. You see śāstra is giving direction. So many lawyers are going to the school colleges to learn the government laws. Why they are taking so much trouble? Just to give people the direction that "You work under this direction, you will not be in difficulty." Similarly the spiritual master is the lawyer. He knows things as they are. He gives direction to the disciple so that he'll be happy. He will not be in trouble.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: By logic, by science. Anyway, that we have to make program. Because this is most misleading. The whole human society is affected by this misleading theory. We have to make program, go from place to place and invite all big men, all scientists. That program we have to make. We cannot allow this nonsense theory to go on. We must make something. Brahmānanda, how to make this? This is a fact, that, that life comes from life. In another sense life does not come. Life is existing. It is not exactly the word that life generates, no. Life is existing. The matter is generated. Matter is generating, and it stays for some time, again it is vanished. Just like this body. This body is born at a certain date, and it will be finished at a certain date. This is matter. (break) The wood was born at a certain date from the tree. It remains green for certain time. Then it is not green, dry. Then, after some time, it will be finished. Matter is not permanent. Matter is changing. Ṣaḍ-vikāra. Six kinds of changes, matter. Birth, then growing... Matter grows also. Just like the body has grown. It was very small, pea-like body in the beginning, and it grows. So birth, growth, maintenance for some time, then by-product. There are some by-products. And then dwindling, then finished. This is matter. But life has no such change. When the life is within the matter, it appears that it is taking birth or death. Life will come. One phase of this change, accept. And when it cannot be maintained anymore, just like this body, when it is too old it cannot maintain. Just like dress. When it is too old we change. So these things are there. The matter is... Life is existing. Life has no change. The change is outward, material thing. In all respects we have to prove that life does not come from matter. Matter generates from life, stays for some time, and it is finished. Again begins another chapter.

Morning Walk -- May 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Suppose he knows the cause of cancer. What is the benefit? Neither he can stop cancer, neither a man suffering from cancer, if it is cured, he will live forever. That is not possible. Cancer or no cancer, a man has to die. He cannot check death. The death may be caused, if not cancer, simply by accident you can die. The real scientific research should be how to stop death. That is real scientific. That we are giving. To find out some medicine for some disease, that is not triumph. Real triumph is how to stop disease. That they cannot. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā puts before you the real trouble is this birth, death, old age and disease. That process we are giving. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). After giving up this body, no more acceptance of material body. This is real science. (break) ...suffer from cancer. (laughter) They don't suffer from cancer. So they are in better position than the so-called human society. They are creating causes of cancer disease and then making research and taking Nobel Prize. How foolish society it is, this. Why you create the cause of cancer disease? You accept these four principles of life—no meat-eating, no intoxication, no illicit sex—there will be no cancer. There will be no cancer. You find out, those who are strictly on this line, they never suffer from cancer or any disease. Now take for example, me. I have come here in this country for the last seven years, 1965, and it is 1973, eight years. How many times I have gone to doctor? That once that heart attack. That is serious; that is another thing. Otherwise generally how many times I have gone to? I don't pay any bill of doctors. So if we live very hygienic life, regulated life, there is no question of cancer or any disease.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Among the trees also, there are different grades of trees, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, everywhere different grades. That is God's creation, variety.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So those trees which bear nice fruits and nice flowers, they are...

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are pious, pious trees. Otherwise why I am taking care of this leaf? Because the flower is there. And who cares for this leaf? Trampling down. As in the human society, there is first-class man, second-class man, third-class man, similarly in every field, first-class, animal also.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Cows.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Useful, giving milk. Most humble, useful. Even after death it is useful. And they are so rascal, they are taking care of the dog, not of the cow. Just see how they are rascals. And they are advanced, civilized. They do not know what is meant by civilization. Now, according to Vedic scripture, cow killing is sinful. It is never written, dog killing is sinful. Generally, any animal you kill, that is sinful. But especially cow killing is sinful. Go-hatya. Go-hatya. And that cow killing is going on by the Christian world, and still, they are religious. What kind of religion? Christian religion says generally, "Thou shalt not kill." All... And especially they are killing cows. Generally killing and especially killing. First thing is why they shall kill at all? In America, oh, they have got sufficient food. So much rice, so much wheat, so much oats, fruits, grains and butter and ghee. So why they shall kill? What is the reason?

Umāpati: Uncontrollable tongue.

Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Our movement is to revive God consciousness. Just like a man is sleeping, and he has got some engagement, say, in the morning, at six o'clock. But still he's sleeping. So somebody is trying to awake him. "Get up, get up! You have got this engagement. You have..." Our movement is like that. The human society is sleeping. So we are just trying to awake them: "Get up. Get up. You have got this engagement." That is our business. It is not our manufactured business, but it is stated in the Vedic literature, uttiṣṭha jāgratā prāpta-varān nibodhata. "Now you be awakened." "Now" means "You have got this human form of life. You can now be awakened." In animal form of life there is no possibility. Therefore, in the human form of life, one should be awakened to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness. And if he sleeps, then he loses his business. This is our mission, to awaken him. And when a man sleeps, how he can awaken him? Simply by vibration of sound. The sleeping man can be awakened simply by this process, allowing the sound to enter the ear. By no other process. He's sleeping. If you show him a stick, "If you don't get up, I shall strike you," that will not be effective. Because sleeping. If you say... So many things... There are other senses. There will be no action. But only through the ear, if you cry, "Please get up! Please get up! Now your time," that will act. So our process is that, to force him to hear. Then he'll be awakened, by hearing. Therefore Vedic literature is called śruti. Śruti means it has to be received by hearing. You may be uneducated. It doesn't matter. If you simply hear from the right source, you get right knowledge. There is no need of education. Simply by hearing.

Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London:

Devotee: I have too.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They like this chanting and dancing. So we are, our business is to awake the sleeping man. Sleeping man means when you sleep you have no knowledge. If somebody kills you, you cannot protect yourself. Sleeping, that is sleeping stage, that we do not know what is happening. That is called sleeping stage. Even if you are so-called awakened, if you do not know the value of life, that is sleeping stage. That is sleeping stage. So in that sleeping stage, we are trying to awake the human society. A man, a human being, may be materially very qualified, but he does not know what is the value of human life, he's sleeping. He's sleeping. Can you distinguish...? You are all educationists. What is the difference between a human being and an animal?

Guest (1): Higher intelligence?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest (1): Higher intelligence, I think.

Prabhupāda: What is that higher intelligence?

Guest (1): Speech and ability to compute what you hear.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that, dog can also do. If you train dog that "If somebody, outsider comes, you bark," he'll do it.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: But their nature is to eat meat. You have to give him. That is different thing. But they can be tamed. But not very trustworthy. (laughter)

Buddhist Monk (1): If they get a little irritated and hungry, they may go to gather.

Prabhupāda: No, if you give them nice food, they'll never attack you.

Haṁsadūta: In the Bible also, in the very beginning page, there's a verse. After God created everything, the animals and the trees and everything, then He gave allotment of food to the human society. It says very plainly that "The seed-bearing plants and trees of the earth shall be your meat, or shall be your food."

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Haṁsadūta: And it says nothing...

Prabhupāda: Vegetables.

Haṁsadūta: It says nothing about... Yes.

Buddhist Monk (1): Yes, but later it goes to add something that "Meat is meat unto you." Yeah. There your difficulty comes in. Well, Isaiaḥ in the Bible, one of five prophets in the Bible, he says: "Peace will come on earth when even the feroci..." (break) May you have long, healthy life.

Prabhupāda: What is your age?

Buddhist Monk (1): I am fifty-nine years.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha (SB 7.6.1). And this is the only opportunity of awakening our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if we do not give that opportunity to the human beings from the childhood, it is a jealous... Jealousy means that you have got some opportunity, but if I do not allow you to take that opportunity, this is called jealous. So every human being has got the potency of awakening his God consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in this human form of body. So if we do not give that opportunity, it is jealousy. Therefore students must be educated, and if you're writing such nice book, I think you will get, give a great service to your nation and to the human society in England. Because durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma, this human form of life... Unfortunately, people do not understand what is the distinction between this human form of life and animal form of life. That is another...

David Lawrence: They offer nothing, is it, in the material world.

Prabhupāda: So you give... Yes. That is the... The only difference is that in human form of life you can awaken your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the animal form... Here we are sitting with all human form of life, gentlemen, civilized men. I cannot call cats and dogs and sit here, and to understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not possible. Therefore this opportunity should be given. This opportunity should be given. And especially, you are English nation, recognized, great nation, respectful, you are respected... Especially in India, we have got very good respect for English nation. We had connection for so many years. And the politicians, they spoiled. Otherwise, the, I, we liked the British Empire, means unity of the human being all over the world. That can be revived again. That can be revived again. If you come to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, your Queen comes to that,... There is process. There is process. You can revive your British Empire. It is not story. If you people take little advice from me, I can help you. Yes. You are intelligent nation. So kindly do this service to the students and awaken their dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It will be a great service. And we are meant for helping you all. So you can inquire. You are at liberty to come at any time and inquire.

Room Conversation with Malcolm -- July 18, 1973, London:

Paramahaṁsa: Well, for example, even in animal society, there is more animals, there's more insects, there's more birds than human society. But there's no question... They have no starvation. They have no nuclear warfare. Because they live as they're, as Kṛṣṇa has meant them to be, as their karma dictates. But in our situation we are meant to understand Kṛṣṇa. This, the goal of human life, is to use our developed consciousness to serve God. But unfortunately, since we misuse this for selfish motives, therefore we have descended lower than animals. Therefore we have not even the simple harmony that animal life has. Therefore we have mass warfare. Therefore we have greed, economic distress and pollution. All these things are caused simply because we have not used our human life for understanding Kṛṣṇa.

Śyāmasundara: I think what you are saying, in a sense, is that generally the people are innocent. They grow up... And the goals of life are forced upon them, sort of, and actually that is not, the real goal is still missing.

Malcolm: They would say, yes, that there is... The number is too many.

Śyāmasundara: The number of goals?

Malcolm: No, the number of people to support a system of return.

Śyāmasundara: Return to the real goal.

Malcolm: To the real goal. They feel oppressed into supporting the number system because it's...

Śyāmasundara: Due to a larger number of people, is it possible to return all these people to the real goal?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. As there is medicine for certain disease, if, in that particular disease, the prescribed medicine is given, then the disease will be cured. Is it not? Medical science, they have discovered medicine for a certain type of disease. So if the diseased man takes that medicine, particular, then he'll be cured. Similarly, if people take what is the actual goal of life by philosophy and logic, then their goal of life will be one. He must agree to take it just like the diseased man must agree to take the medicine. Then he's cured.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So primarily, it is based on Bhagavad-gītā, and then it is being explained from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary study of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: So we get ideas from Bhagavad-gītā how God consciousness can make the human society happy.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes. (keeps saying "Yes" repeatedly throughout the conversation)

Prabhupāda: The aim of human society should be God realization. That is the distinction between an animal and a human being.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So Bhagavad-gītā recommends that the whole society should be divided into four divisions: the brāhmaṇa, or the most intellectual persons, the kṣatriyas, the administrators, the vaiśyas, the mercantile agriculturists, and the śūdras, ordinary men, laborer or worker. Because this material world is conducted by three modes of nature, goodness, passion and ignorance, so according to the quality of the person, he should be listed in different categories. And it is the duty of the state to see that all these categories, divisions, they are working nicely.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes. You would apply the teachings of the Gītā to all human societies at all times. Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Yes, that is my ambition, that let the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā be practically accepted by the human society, and surely they'll be happy. Surely. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glanīr bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. So now everything is confused. And in your country, or western countries, they are very organized. So you are not feeling now so much confusion. But it is coming. But in India and countries like that, it is very confusion state. Yes. They have lost their own culture, and they could not assimilate the western type of civilization. So they are lost. They are lost.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: In India is everybody lost, the Indian culture...?

Prabhupāda: No, not everybody.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: No, no.

Prabhupāda: Not everybody. But general mass of people, at least, the so-called educated, five to ten percent people, they are lost.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes. I agree.

Prabhupāda: ...why not they? National. National means a living entity born in particular country. So at the present moment, the national means only human being. The animals are not nationals. They are being sent to the slaughterhouse. So this kind of sinful activities are going on. Therefore renunciation means to give up these sinful activities. That is real renunciation. Otherwise, you cannot renounce anything. You have to live. And that is allowed at the cost of God. Everything belongs to God. You are son of God. So you live. But don't encroach... Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam. That is the instruction of Īśopaniṣad. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ (ISO 1). Everything belongs to God. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. So you have got the right to enjoy what is allotted for you. Don't encroach upon others' right. This is renunciation. But they are encroaching upon others' right. Especially the human society. And that is the cause of all troubles. Because they have no God consciousness, they have no sense about God, and there is no sense about next life... What is your opinion about life after death?

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: My opinion is that an individual human being is, in life in this world, is temporarily separated from the whole of spiritual reality, and after death we rejoin the reality that we are separated from.

Prabhupāda: That is Christian idea.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So work is required. But godly persons, they want to live a simple life and high thinking, save time for understanding of God. The demonic people, they are engaged in horrible activities. They have manufactured so many things. So in this way... There are so many descriptions. Actually, by the increase of demoniac people, people are not very happy, and they are missing the ultimate goal of life. That is the defect of the modern civilization. They do not believe that there is an ultimate goal of life, there is life after death, and what kind of body he's going to get next. These things are not, neither in the university education curriculum, neither people are interested. So at the present moment... This is called Kali-yuga. So people are being misled. Actually, the human being, the form of human life, is distinct from animal life. So if we live like animals, then we are missing the chance. At the present moment, this is the position. So we are preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement strictly on the basis of this Bhagavad-gītā. In the Bhagavad-gītā, there is everything explained. So if people take to it, if people are educated, then things will change in a different way. They'll be happy and they will be peaceful, nice. And above, over and above them, they will have next life very blissful, full of knowledge, and eternal. Yad gatvā na nivarta... These things are all very nicely explained. There is eternal life. There is another nature. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). This is material nature, but there is another, spiritual nature. There everything is permanent. Here everything is non-permanent. Just like my body, your body. It is now getting older. And it will vanquish. This body will be finished. It will never come again back. Never come. This exactly type of this body you'll never get. So we have to accept another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Dehāntara-prāptiḥ. It is exemplified just like we change our shirt and coat and take another set, similarly, this gross body, material gross body, five elements, earth, water, air, fire, sky, and then mind, intelligence, ego, subtle body, within that subtle body the soul is there, and after annihilation of this gross body, the subtle body takes to another gross body. The nature is going on like that. And we are wandering in different species of life, in different planets. But our real purpose is God-realization. That we are missing. That chance is in the human form of life. So if people are not educated to this goal of life, that is not helping the country or the society or the human beings. If we simply engage them in the activities of animal life—how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex life, and how to defend, no more—then it is simply advancement of animal civilization. But those who are thinking good for all humanity, they should note this defect, that simply giving him nice food, nice shelter, nice sex facilities and nice defense, his problem of life is not solved. He should be given enlightenment about God consciousness. And if he is educated in that way, if he, by next life, he can go back to home, back to Godhead. This education is lacking. So we are trying in our small endeavor. But if leading personalities like you of the society, they try to understand this philosophy scientifically, critically, and take it seriously, they can, there will be great benefit for the human society. The program we have got, but we are not leading personalities. You are all leading personalities. At least in England. Lord... This group, House of Lords is there. It was always there. In previous days also. They were called amātyas. All leading men of the society, they used to give advice to the king. And brāhmaṇas also. I think the knighthood means that. What is the meaning of this knighthood? Eh? Personal advisors to the king?

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: And ignorance. If we give service in ignorance, without knowing what is what, that kind of service may lead us to become punished. So we must know what kind of service we shall give. So real suffering of the society, human society, or any society you take, real suffering is, because the living entity has forgotten God, so he is being punished in different way by the material nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So many ways. But everyone is being punished. At least, the three kinds... Why three kinds? That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā, that this is also punishment, repetition of birth and death. This is also punishment. Because we are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). We are spirit soul, we are eternal. So our, this constant change of body, birth and death, that is also punishment. Because nobody wants to die. Because he is eternal. How he'll like to die? He wants to keep his eternal position, but he, because he's criminal... Just like one man is condemned to die, murderer. So he has to die. But he wants to protect himself, placing himself in the court, "How to save? How to save?" So that is our natural tendency, that we do not want to die. Why? Because we are eternal. We have got the prerogative. So if... Anyone does not want to die. Anyone does not want to take birth even. Now we have forgotten. Otherwise, in the womb of the mother, everyone knows that we are kept in such a way, in a packed, compact water bag, without any facility to move, not only for one day, two day, but ten months. Medical science knows, everyone knows. And at that time there are worms in the womb of the mother. They're taking the advantage, delicate skin. They also bite. And he cannot make any protest. He moves sometimes. The child moves. These are the sufferings. But we do not take care. If I have to take birth again, then I have to go, again enter into the womb of the mother, and, to develop my body and in such precarious condition, the body will develop. So there is suffering. There is suffering of birth, and at the time of death there is suffering. And between birth and death, there is duration of life, there is disease, there is old age, and what to speak of other sufferings. That we may not mention. But at least these four sufferings are there. Therefore the best service is to save him from this suffering. That is the service.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That every human being can do.

Lord Brockway: But as I see so many men and women who are regarded as ordinary men and women, and their heroism in life, their sacrifice in life, their service in life, makes me small compared with them, even if they are not known, and even if they are not thought to be great. And so I don't think to be great at all.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No big man thinks like that. He thinks always small.

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So that is natu... That is good. Big, big man. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was lear... "I am fool number one." And the author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, he says that "I am lower than the, a worm in the stool." So this is good attitude. Nobody... Sir Isaac Newton also used to say that "What knowledge I have got. I have simply collected..." They're... Every, every big man thinks like that. That is good attitude. But there is comparative study, that "Here is a big man, here is a common man." So our proposition is that it is a great science, great philosophy. So western countries, they are intelligent, especially the Britain, British people. They had very good opportunity. Still they have got opportunity. So my request is that let us study this philosophy and science and if possible introduce it in the human society. That is our proposal.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Mother: Yeah, well, Michael was taught that when he was very small. The Jesuits saw to that.

Prabhupāda: That is perfection.

Mother: The Jesuits certainly did.

Prabhupāda: So to understand God or how to love God, there is religious system. In every civilized human society, it doesn't matter whether it is Christianity or Hinduism or Mohammedanism or Buddhism, the aim, religious system is there in human society besides the education of eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That is there in the animal society. So a human being is distinct from the animal when he has education how to understand God and how to love Him. That is perfection.

Mother: Well, you've got a good tape there now, haven't you?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Mother: You've got a good tape there now. Yes.

Prabhupāda: So that is now wanting. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not depriving people of their education. You get education how to eat, how to sleep, and that's all right. But side by side, you take education how to know God and how to love Him. That is our proposition.

Car Conversation after meeting with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Yogeśvara: His point was that human beings, they think on higher platforms than animals do.

Prabhupāda: What that higher platform? Eating, you require to maintain the body. I eat something, you eat another. That does not mean higher or lower. You eat, I also eat. That's all. You eat according to your taste. I eat according to my taste. So the eating is the real symptom, not the varieties of eating. By varieties of eating, suppose I... A animal, the cow is eating grass, and you are eating the same animal by keeping a huge slaughterhouse with machines and... Does it mean that you have improved your eating process? Simply by having big, big machine and ghastly scenes. And the animal eats simple grass. Does it mean that you are advanced than the animals? There is no logic. Eating is eating. One man's food, another man's poison. That is another thing. But eating is there. Somebody eats poison. Somebody eats ordinary thing. But eating is there. So nobody can avoid eating. That is the main symptom. Even in human society, there are different varieties of food. We Indians, we like a different type of dish. European, Americans, they like a di... But eating is there. Either American, Indian or cats, dogs, eating must be there. That is real symptom. After eating, you must sleep. That is essential. So where is the difference of real character, characteristic between the animals and the human beings?

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: But if, under certain circumstances, you are obliged to eat meat, eat the flesh of some lower animals. Don't kill cows. It is the greatest sin. And so long one will be sinful, he'll not be able to understand what is God. But human being, main business is to understand God and to love Him. But if he remains sinful, neither he can understand God, and what to, what is the question of loving Him. Therefore at least from the human society, this cruel maintenance of slaughterhouses must be stopped.

Cardinal Danielou: (French)

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Cardinal Danielou: Oui, oui. I think that this is perhaps not an essential point. I think that in this realm the uses of various religions can be good. The importance is to love God.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Cardinal Danielou: But the commandment practical can be various.

Prabhupāda: No. Just like God, if God says that: "You can do this," that is not sin. But if God says that: "You cannot do it", then it is sin.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Yogeśvara: How should society be organized in order to achieve these goals?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You organize that there should be division of different classes of men. The first class men, the second class men, the third class men, fourth class men. The first-class men means the most intelligent class of men. Second-class men means those who are dealing in politics. Third-class men means those who are dealing in economics, industry, trade. And fourth-class men means they have no intelligence to take up all these things, but they work only. But all of them should cooperate. For the general benefit of the whole human society. We have got engagement for the first-class men, second-class men, third-class men, fourth-class men. Just like we have got in our body the brain, the arms, the belly, and the legs. But all of them are cooperating for keeping the body fit. Similarly, the first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class men should cooperate for achieving the end, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Not Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Inger: They haven't. Not so far. Because from their point of view they have to prove the dates, historical dates, how many centuries, and so forth.

Prabhupāda: It is there in the śāstras.

Dr. Inger: I know. But so... If one can put it that way, then somebody has to submit that we are going to celebrate the three thousand anniversary, or four thousand anniversary, and... But no such step has been taken. But such an idea can be proposed.

Prabhupāda: No, suppose the United Nations is the organization of the whole human society, so if I ask the United Nations, as an organization that: "What is the purpose of this cosmic manifestation?" That is a fact. There is a cosmic manifestation. The scientists, they are also trying to understand. So there are so many scientists, philosophers, what is their answer? Suppose I am inquisitive to know something. So where shall I inquire?

Dr. Inger: Now if you were to inquire from... Because the only organization which deals with culture, therefore philosophy, therefore religion, therefore art, therefore music, is UNESCO Paris. Not New York. And if you did put such a question, you would get some kind of reply from one of the directors who says: "We, we... Such a proposal has not been made. But if such a proposal is made, let us say, presented, by any member state, out of the hundred and twenty-six or twenty-seven member states, and it is submitted to the general conference where it meets in session, two years in October, and is passed through, we will be able..." Now usually what happens is one country presents it and if the, and what it means in terms of expense, how much, how many people are going to be invited, and what is going to be the plan. And if that is done, they would say: "Yes, I think such a study has to be made." And it's possible to make it.

Prabhupāda: A sectarian question.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Three things only.

Dr. Inger: Yes. That is one thing they want to avoid.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is their nonsense.

Dr. Inger: In other words, everything else is a plan or an excuse to escape from yourself.

Prabhupāda: That means it is a association of cheaters and cheated. Somebody wants to cheat and somebody's being cheated. That's all. That is our opinion. So how the association of cheaters and cheated can do anything good to the human society? They're cheaters. They do not know how this peace has to be attained, and they're trying to attain peace in their own way. Therefore they're cheaters. You do not a subject matter, how to do it, and you're trying to do it, that means you are cheater. It may be very strong words, but the fact is there. Why should you try something which you do not know adequately? That is our protest.

Dr. Inger: Well, many people would say that the use of the intellect alone, which is an excuse for not going deep into oneself, is the technique that is used. What can be rationally explained, only rationally explained, is what matters.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Anna Conan Doyle: He's not trained.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the... So if we make our living condition very simple, there is enough time, enough time. But we don't say that you go back to the primitive stage of life. That is not possible. We simply request that wherever you are, simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is no difficulty. Then everything will be clear. And we are not charging anything for that, that: "You give me so many pounds. I'll give you a mantra." Not like that. (break) There is no necessity. Unnecessarily they are killing animals, and becoming sinful. So they have created their own field of activities just to become bereft of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Formerly, in the human society, there was no slaughterhouse. If they wanted to kill one animal, they went to the forest or anywhere. Kill one animal and eat it. But here it is now regular business. Somebody's supplying cows regularly by increasing livestock. That has become his business. And somebody's killing. So we have invented so many things like that, simply for sinful activities. How we can become happy? It is not possible. So many big, big factories for producing beer and liquor. But they have become accustomed to this. And the net result is now we increasing the hippie population. This irresponsible life is producing children, most irresponsible, brainless. Yes. But they have no eyes to see, that "How we are degrading. This is our children." I have been to Amsterdam. One park, there is...

Bhagavān: Fondel Park.

Prabhupāda: Bondel Park?

Bhagavān: Fondel.

Prabhupāda: Fondel. So hippies are there. Oh, how wretchedly, voluntarily they are living. They don't require to live in that way, but they are living. Lying down on the ground. No regulated principle. They do not know where to eat, where to sleep. Unnecessarily. Thousands of hippies. And they are thinking they're happy.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Ceta etair anāviddhaṁ sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. In this way, as the heart becomes cleansed, he revives his quality of goodness. And when he's situated in the quality of goodness, the other two qualities, passion and ignorance, cannot infect him. By this process. Rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ. Rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ. The example is kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye. When one is too much affected with the rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa, passion and ignorance... What is this kāma? Lusty and greediness. These are the symptoms of rajas-tamo-guṇa. So then therefore we see that all people are lusty and greedy. So as soon as he becomes cleansed, come to the standard of goodness, these two qualities cannot affect him anymore. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye (SB 1.2.19). One has to take the process. And it is simple process. Simple... And that, that is actually happening, in our practical experience. They say, they say... They are all rascals, fools. They can say anything and everything. Pāgale kim abole chāgale kiṁ na khāoyā. In the Bengali it is said: A madman, what does he not speak? He speaks any nonsense. And a goat, what does he not eat? So if you keep a madman... They are keeping them mad... That is our protest, that why you are keeping all people mad, crazy, nonsense? And you are also teacher, university? They have no knowledge that what is the aim of life. That you have to protest. So as we gradually increase our strength, our number, we have to protest to the world that: "Why you rascal and fools, keeping the whole human society in darkness? You have no knowledge." Here God says that: 'Under My direction the prakṛti's working.' You have no knowledge. You are saying that there is no aim. Without aim, why God should create this, such a big gigantic manifestation. Why He should take responsibility? Is there no responsibility to maintain this gigantic... God has got immense power. He can maintain. That is another thing. But why He should take the responsibility? Just like government creates a big prison house. It is not for nothing. There is some aim. Otherwise, why government should keep such establishment, huge establishment? It is not something faith(?). They are to be given cloth and shelter and everything, the arrangement. Similarly such gigantic universal manifestation, millions and millions of living entities are there. They have to be trained up. They have to be provided with all necessities of life. This responsibility's there.

Room Conversation with British Man -- August 31, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Come back?

Pradyumna: He said that you must have come back here because you had a job to do.

Guest (1): You see you, if you were freed in your previous time and did not have to come back, it does occur to me that you have come back because you have a job to do.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also, just like, Kṛṣṇa comes. Similarly Kṛṣṇa's son, God's son, sometimes He comes. Sometimes Kṛṣṇa's great devotee, servant, he comes because the spiritual enlightenment to the fallen souls, that is required. So in the human society, when the living entity gets the chance of having this human form of life, he has got the facility to understand his position, how to go back to home, back to Godhead. So that facility is offered by God, by Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, we have got these books. We have got spiritual master, we have got ācāryas. Just to enlighten these fallen souls to go back to home, back to Godhead.

Guest (1): Now you did say, I think you did just tell me earlier, that I think you said Kṛṣṇa or somebody last came five hundred years ago.

Prabhupāda: No, Lord Caitanya.

Guest (1): Pardon?

Prabhupāda: Lord Caitanya. He is Kṛṣṇa, He came as Kṛṣṇa's devotee.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So if one is engaged in the prime business of life, Brahman understanding, athāto brahma jijñāsā, for him these bodily pains and pleasure becomes minor things. Therefore, we see such examples, that one saintly person is living in the Himalayan mountain. There is snowfall, there is no proper place, still they live. Still, there are many. But nowadays it is not possible. Voluntarily, they used to go to the forest, to the Himalaya, just to tolerate these pains and pleasure of the body equally and engage in their own business of spiritual understanding. That is human civilization. Human civilization, that is described, tapo divyam. For the supreme spiritual realization one should undergo tapasya. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). It is the instruction of Rṣabhadeva that this body... Everyone has got body, cats and dogs and hogs, they have got body. We have also body. The kings and demigods, they have got body. Everyone has got body. But especially the body of... Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. In the human society. This body is not meant for kaṣṭān kāmān, to satisfy sense gratification with very, very hard labor like the hogs and dogs. Then what it is meant for? Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed (SB 5.5.1). "My dear boys, this body is meant for tapasya." Why tapasya? Your question. Yena śuddhyed. Your existence will be purified. Yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ tv anantam. Then you'll get perpetual, blissful life. So everyone is seeking after blissful life, but that is not possible in this materialistic way of life. That is not possible. One must seek blissful life in spiritual understanding, brahma-saukhyam, brahma-sukha. That is required. Transcendental pleasure. Ramante yogino 'nante satyānande cid-ātmani. Satyānande, real happiness, in the spiritual understanding, spiritual platform. Iti rāma-padenāsau paraṁ brahmābhidhīyate (CC Madhya 9.29). That kind of enjoyment is called rāma. Ramaṇa. From ramaṇa, rāma. That is wanted. So there is no education at the present moment. But people are hankering. Western people especially. They've have seen enough of this material enjoyment, now they are hankering after their spiritual life. Therefore they look forward towards the Vedic culture. This is the answer.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Children, small children, they're just like animals. The cats and dogs, just they are playing, they're also playing like that. But he, he does not belong to that category because when he'll get..., he'll get another body in which he'll be intelligent. Another body, he'll be highly educated. Another body, he'll be doctorate. The cats and dogs, they'll have to wait to get that body. So with the body, we are changing our consciousness. So different body, different consciousness. Similarly, why not after death a different body, different consciousness? If you make progress. Yes. This is progressive. So that is confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā: tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13).

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

(BG 2.13)

So people cannot understand. That means they are not dhīra, not even, according to Vedic conc..., not even gentlemen. One who cannot understand this simple theory, that, "After this body, as I have changed so many bodies, similarly, I shall change this body also." That's a fact. So dhīras tatra na muhyati. Dhīra, one who has got brain, one who can think, he'll not be puzzled. "Yes, he has... Death means he has changed body." Any gentle, good brain will understand. But people are so foolish now, they cannot understand. They are not educated even to understand this simple thing. This is the position of the world. Even a big professor like Kotofsky. So this is the position of our present human society.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So keeping the point, sense enjoyment, in view, there is no difference between hogs and human beings. Because they are also working day and night, hogs. A particular animal has been mentioned in the śāstra. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. This ayaṁ deho nṛloke, in the human society, is not meant for working so hard simply for sense enjoyment because this spirit is visible even in the hogs. Then what it is meant...? Tapaḥ. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa (SB 6.1.13). That is the point. Śamena, damena. Satya-śaucābhyām. Everything is there. And there are different types of sense enjoyment: rūpa, rasa, gandha, śabda, sparśa, six kinds. And each sense, there is an object of sense enjoyment. There is eyes, oh, beautiful woman, sense enjoyment. Maithunam, sex life, there are eight kinds of sex. If one thinks within the mind about sex enjoyment, that is also sex. So anyway, that is the danger, keeping a separate department for money collecting. Then it will turn: "Collect money, eat nicely and sleep nicely." And to live in the temple, at least, one is forced to rise early in the morning, take bath, to have darśana. They'll get regulated life. Therefore this temple worship is needed because we are so impure. So at least, in temple, by following the regulative principles, we can keep ourself pure. Otherwise simply chanting is sufficient. There is no need of constructing big, big temples. But we are so impure... That is Jīva Gosvāmī's, recommended that as soon as we give up this temple worship method, regulative principles, then we become, in the dress of so-called, we become victim of māyā. Veśopajīvaka. They are working and doing some business, and then our dress will be a means of business. This will be also another material business. Actually they are doing so. So that is the danger of keeping a separate department. What is the use? We have got jeeps?

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Banker: Welfare. Payment to people who don't work.

Prabhupāda: No, everyone should work. Our Vedic philosophy is that everyone must work. But there must be division of work. Just like in your body there are different parts. The head department, the arms department, the belly department, and the legs department. These are different parts. So all these departments must work for the total benefit of the body. That is our philosophy. Nobody should sit idle. But he must work according to his capacity. Brain must work for giving direction. Hand must work for giving protection. Belly must work for supplying food, energy. And leg must work for carrying the body. So similarly the society must be divided: the brain of the society, the arms of the society, the belly of the society and the legs of the society. That will make perfection. The brain will give direction That is the brāhmaṇas. The arms will give protection. That is the kṣatriya. And the belly will give energy, food, that is vaiśya. And the legs will carry the body. That is śūdra. This is... Whole society should be divided into four divisions, the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas, the vaiśyas and the śūdras. And they should work cooperatively for the total benefit of the body. This is perfect life. Not that everyone should be brain. Then who will carry me? Just like in your bank, the manager is the brain. The secretaries and assistants are the hands, clerks. And ordinary worker, they are legs. Anywhere you go, you must find out these four divisions. Therefore the human society must be divided into four divisions. But there is no such plan. Now the plan is that everyone is being educated to learn technology, how to... In your country, especially. How to make economic development. So they have no brain. Therefore there are hippies. There is no brain actually. Now, the President Nixon, he is in the topmost post. He has no brain. Therefore he is being ridiculed. Neither he has honor. He is not resigning the post. He has been ridiculed by the people, but still, he is sticking to his post. So this is the defect. You have got in your country only the vaiśyas, the belly and the legs. I am just giving a crude example. Not only in your country, every country nowadays. There is no brain. Brain is finished. Therefore everywhere you will find chaos and confusion. There is no brain. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are creating some brain. We are not creating the technological expert, but we are creating brain to know the purpose of human life and work on it under a systematic way. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not such bluff that "In darkness you meditate this, that," no. It is a science. It is a science, how the human society can be happy in all respects. And everything is directed there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just like to keep up your body fit, you require brain in order, your arms in order, your stomach in order, your legs in order. Everything must be in order. But out of all of them, if there is no brain, then everything is useless. The hand is useless, the stomach is useless, the leg is useless. So at the present moment there is no brain in the society. Lack of brain. All these things, directions, are there in the Bhagavad-gītā. What is the brain, or brāhmaṇa? Find out this verse, śamo damas titikṣā, in the Eighteenth Chapter. Jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Even the doctors are going on strike now.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are śūdras. Therefore, because it is the society of śūdras everywhere, there is confusion. No brain. Simply śocati, "want, want, want, want, want." And in brahminical culture, you will find even he is very poor brāhmaṇa, no source of income, no fixation of foodstuff even, but he is happy. He is happy. He is happy by his knowledge. He'll satisfy himself. If he does not get his food, then he will think that "This day Kṛṣṇa desired that I should not have my food. Oh, it is Kṛṣṇa's pleasure. It is Kṛṣṇa's mercy." Therefore in Vedic culture, other section, the kṣatriyas and the vaiśyas, they would call the brāhmaṇas to take food. Brāhmaṇa-bhojana. Because they know, "The brāhmaṇas, they will starve; still they will not ask anybody to give him food." Therefore brāhmaṇa-bhojana. And now they have discovered daridra-nārāyaṇa-bhojana. There are so many things. Vedic culture is the perfect for human society, perfect culture. And this is not bogus humbug, go into the darkness and do something nonsense. It is everything open, in the śāstra, in the book. You have to adopt it. Then you become happy. The whole society, the whole human society becomes happy, never mind where it is. It is science, how to live just like human being, not like cats and dogs. That is Vedic culture. Everyone is happy. Still, those who are following Vedic principles, they are happy than others. These Arya-samajis, they say, the Vedic culture, but they are not happy as the strictly followers of Vedic culture.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Brahmānanda: Janma is birth, karma is work ca, also, me, of mine, divyam, transcendental, evam. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...technology. If you simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa, His activities, His appearance, His disappearance, this technology, then you also become like Kṛṣṇa. No more birth, no more death, no more disease. This is science. In this life if you simply try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa, then you become immune from birth, death, old age and disease. So if you don't like... Not you, mean the people. They say, "No, we don't like Kṛṣṇa consciousness..." But you are so much advanced in science and technology. Where is your technology? That was my question in the Massachusetts Technological... "Where is your technology to stop this death?" Nobody wants to die. Is it not a fact? So where is that technology that human society has given, has been awarded with this profit by such and such great scientist that people will no more die, no more disease, no more birth, no more old age? Nobody wants to become old. Nobody wants to get an old body like me. Rheumatic troubles. Nobody wants. But I am forced to accept. Where is that technology? I was also young man like you. I would like to go back again to that young life, but there is no possibility. So where is that technology? Real problems of life are not solved. Because there is no knowledge. Lack of knowledge.

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: That's terrible.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino... How subtle laws are working, what do they know the scientists? Therefore their so-called knowledge is māyayā apahṛta-jñānāḥ, actual knowledge is taken away by māyā. And they are thinking, "I am very learned man, scholar." But actual knowledge is taken away. māyayā apahṛta-jñānāḥ. Why? Āsuri-bhāva. They won't accept God. Therefore they are all fools. In spite of all these degrees, they are all fools. Therefore they cannot explain everything very nicely. "In future we shall see."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are saying that "We are beginning to learn more and more..."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means that you are fool. While you are in the process of learning, that means you are fool. Say directly that we are fool. That is gentlemanliness. You do not know; still, you pose, "I am, we are scholar, we are scientist. Give us Nobel Prize." You see. This is going on. We don't want Nobel Prize. We are giving the topmost knowledge. We don't hanker after Nobel Prize. But they give false knowledge and hanker after Nobel Prize. Just see. Their real aim is how to get the Nobel Prize by cheating. That is their real aim. How an educated man, learned man will cheat? So therefore my Guru Mahārāja used to say that "This modern human society, or always, it is a society of the cheaters and the cheated." Somebody is cheating and somebody's cheated, and they have combined together to make a so-called civilization.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Bali Mardana: Confusion.

Prabhupāda: Confusion is not... Chaotic condition, confusion is not proper stage. That is a state of suffering. That is the position at the present moment. Otherwise, why they are fighting, nation to nation, man to man, group to group, community to community, diplomat to dip...? They're simply fighting like cats and dogs. This is not perfect society. Simply ca... They can say dogs. They can simply make barking, "Whowf! Whowf! Whowf! Whowf!" That is not perfect society. Human society should be sober. That is Vedic civilization.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But one should follow the standard morality. When that standard set is lacking or it fails to understand, then people try to speculate their own thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. Nobody's following any standard. Just like these Western people, mostly Christians. It is clearly stated in the Bible, "Thou shalt not kill." They're simply killing. Their only business is killing.

Bali Mardana: And divorce.

Prabhupāda: And divorce.

Bali Mardana: It says, "Thou shalt not commit adultery."

Prabhupāda: So these rascals, how do they claim Christian? Eh? What do you think? They're not even category, in the category of dogs, cats, and they're claiming that "We are follower of Lord Jesus Christ."

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is restricted. Why it is advised to kill in the synagogue? Why not publicly? That means it is not wanted, but if you go on killing in the mosque, some day you may come to your sense, that you are a rascal; you are becoming responsible. But if you open slaughterhouse, that sense will never come.

Hṛdayānanda: And not to kill the cow?

Prabhupāda: Especially not to kill cow. That animal is very, very important to the human society. According to the Vedic system, those who are meat-eaters, they are recommended to kill some goat or some other animal. Not cow.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now, there's sometimes, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when these animals are sacrificed according to śāstric injunctions.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think they are benefited.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are benefited.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: And enjoy, enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is done by the pigs. Whole day, finding out "Where is stool? Where is stool? Where is stool?" And as soon as he eats some stool, gets some fat, "Where is sex? Never mind, mother, sister, or daughter. Come on, sex." This is pig life, pig civilization. It is not human civilization. This kind of behavior is found amongst the pigs, amongst the dogs. Do you think we have to create a human society like the pigs' society? At the present moment, they're eating anything and everything like pigs, and they're having sex with anyone, never mind. So it is a pig society. There is no discrimination. (break) ...the most popular thing is this drinking, eating meat and drinking wine. Is that to be accepted because it is very popular?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they use transcendental meditation...

Prabhupāda: What is this transcendental meditation? They do not know. The another cheater, and he's big amongst the cheated. That's all.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: There's a large group today, Śrīla Prabhupāda, called humanists and they have decided that this concept of God is not very useful. We can solve all the problems ourselves.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. These are rascals. You see, humanists, they are professing humanists and they are killing so many human beings daily. You see? These are all escapism. What is called? Escaping? They could not find any, I mean to say, solace and now humanity... What they can do? There are so many people suffering in the human society. What they can do? Suppose they are opening hospitals. Is that guarantee for a cure of disease or no death? Then what is the humanity. You cannot do anything. You may advertise yourself, " I have opened so many hospitals and beds." But what you can do? Is that guarantee that there that there will be no disease and everyone will be cured, nobody will die. Then what is the humanitarianism. You cannot do anything.

Karandhara: They say, "the best use of a bad bargain."

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but that is not perfect idea that you want to make people happy, that is humanitism, or what is that? So can you make everyone happy? Is that guarantee?

Karandhara: Well, they say life means happiness and sadness.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then what is your meaning of the humanitism? That is going on. Without your attempt that is going on.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: Devotees are beginning more and more, Śrīla Prabhupāda, under your instruction, to enter into politics. But the political leaders, they will claim, "Well you have no experience. How can you be qualified to...?"

Prabhupāda: No, we have got experience. If there is a good man, he'll do, he'll act very nice. That we have got experience. Just like if a man is honest, you can trust him. This is our experience. So similarly, if the leaders be good according to this standard, then the whole human society will be happy. This is our propaganda. We are not after the post, but we have to disclose this rascaldom, that "All these rascals, animals, fools, they are taking the post of leader, and you are suffering repeatedly, but you have no sense that 'How we can be happy with this Nixon and company's leadership?' " So therefore we want to disclose the fact, that's all. We have no ambition. Just like we are brāhmaṇas. We have nothing to do, but according to Vedic civilization, the brāhmaṇas guides the kṣatriyas how to rule. So our position is to reform the politicians. We are not going to compete with them, we have no business, neither we have time. But because people are suffering—we want everyone to be happy-therefore we want to reform these rascals. That is our goal. What we shall do taking part in politics? We have no business. But our real aim is how people will be happy. That is our real aim. So these rascals are leading, misleading. Therefore we want to check them. Is that all right? Is that all right?

Prajāpati: Will this be possible, to reform these leaders, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Well, just like I came here alone to reform, to make God conscious, but gradually it is increasing. Although I had very little hope, but still now hopeful. So let us try for it. It is not that cent percent people, but if one, two men can understand, leading men, then the whole society will be benefited. It is not that mass people will be reformed. Just like we have received one letter from one Mr. Ford, Ford family, how much he is appreciating our movement. He has paid also. So it is our duty to do. But if one, two men comes out, comes forward, then it will be successful.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They'll say they don't care about next life, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is foolishness. Just like a child is playing whole day, and if you ask, "Go to school," "I don't care for future life." It is, it is just like that. It is just like that. How the guardians can tolerate that, that this rascal is going to be a fool-number-one if he's not educated? So we are guardians. We are representatives of Kṛṣṇa. We cannot see this. The rascal may say like that, but we cannot tolerate this. This is our proposition. We must see that things are going on nicely, according to the plan of God. That is our duty. The rascal may say like that. But we cannot stop there. So this is a serious movement, and you should take very seriously from all angles of vision. (pause) Just like these Africans, they stopped my entrance. These rascals are thinking that Africa belongs to them. It is God's property. These usurpers, these rogues and thieves, a few Africans, they are thinking, "It is our property." Huge state, huge land, huge food products can be produced there and utilized for the whole human society. But they are thinking, "It is my property. We shall not allow." So many wrong things are going on in the name of nationalism, in the name of scientific advancement, and people are suffering. How we can see that? Everybody has bluffed so long. Now we have to stop them. This is our movement. You should ask, theologician, the government, "What kind of trust? Is it scientific trust, or simply...?" They do not trust even in... So-called Christians, they do not trust in Jesus Christ. But they are going on as Christian, as priest. Cheating and bluffing should be stopped. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The rascals are flourishing by cheating and bluffing. This business should be stopped. So what do you think, Karandhara Prabhu?

Karandhara: Yes, Prabhupāda. It must be stopped.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Gap of understanding because the basic principle is wrong, because everyone is fool. And they are trying to understand things with their foolish background. There is the wrong. They are trying to be advanced in knowledge on the foolish background. They do not accept that, that they are foolish rascals. And they are trying to advance in knowledge, active-foolish, fourth class men. Their background is wrong. No scientist, no politician, no philosophers, at the present moment, believe in this, that there is soul, and the soul is transmigrating from one body... Nobody believes it. So their whole background is foolish. So their so-called advancement must be all foolish. They're all fools, rascals, animals. An animal does not know that there is soul and the soul is transmigrating from one body to another. This is animal conception. You cannot teach these pigeons that "You are spirit soul. Your body's different from you." They will, they have no power to understand. So if a human being cannot understand, what is the difference between these pigeons and cats and dogs and him? Then basic principle is wrong. Just like in mathematical calculation, if at one point you have mistaken, then will that be correct ever? It will go on, mistaking, mistaking, mistaking, mistaking. If the, if one point, while adding, you have made two plus two equal to five, then after that, everything wrong, everything wrong. Everything wrong. So that is their position. Their basic principle is like animal. The animal cannot understand that there is soul and there is transmigration of the soul. And if the human society makes progress of their so-called knowledge on this wrong basis understanding, then what will be the result? Everything wrong, everything wrong, everything wrong. Everything foolish. That is stated in the Bhāgavata: parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam: "If somebody does not know what is ātma-tattva, what is the science of soul, then whatever he is making, so-called advancement that is all defeat." Parābhava. That is being done. And defeat they are taking as success. Just like these rascal scientists, they could not go and settle in the moon planet. Still, they are saying, "It is success. It is success." Just see the fun. What success? You could not stay there, and what success you have got? Simply by seeing a crack? "Yes." That's all right, success. And people are accepting, "Oh, yes, you are successful. Now go to another planet." These bogus things are going on.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...two classes of men: the communist and the non-communist. Not exactly communist and capitalist, but communist and non-communist. Out of these two, the communists are going to be powerful. This is the world tendency. So if the world becomes full of communists, then the human civilization will be finished. All rogues and rascals, that's all. The American government wants to check this tendency. But they cannot check it if they remain "so-called trust in God." That will not be possible. So according to our proposition... Not only now, it is forever. Two classes of men are there: sura and asura. Surāsura. Viṣṇu-bhakto bhaved devaḥ. Deva and sura, the same thing. Asuras tad viparyayaḥ. And the asura, or the demons, godless. So if the Americans remain godless in the name of so-called trust in God, they will not be able to check this communistic movement. They will not be able. Now, if they are serious to check this communistic movement, save the American country as well as the whole world, then they must be very serious to understand what is God and what is trust in God. Otherwise this communistic movement will finish the civilized human society. So you are thoughtful. They must be very serious about it. And this is the only movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which can make all people actually trust in God and explain what is meant by God. Demons, they... If the communists are demons and the capitalists are also demons, fighting between demons, there will be war and loss of life, but nobody will come out victorious. That is going on. There is occasional world war, but the situation of the world remains the same. No party has become able to change the situation of the world. What do you think, Karandhara?

Karandhara: No, no significant change.

Prabhupāda: Simply they fight and loss of life and money, energy. War must be for the good. If there is some war, it must be for some good. But where is that goodness? The world remains the same; rather, it becomes more worst. Then why fight? But they will fight. Because both of them demons, they will fight. But not for any good result. War means... War is not bad. Just like disease. If somebody is diseased, then he becomes healthy. The whole polluted situation of the body becomes repaired. Just like when you get a boil or dysentery, all the poisons of the body, they become purged out. Then your health becomes nice. That is the law, nature's law. Similarly, war or famine or pestilence, they are meant for purging out all undesirable men. But the demonic principle is so strong that it is not becoming so. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Make this approach. The Americans have placed in their constitution, "In God we Trust." It should be done very scientifically and philosophically, what is God and what is that trust, not a vague idea. Vague ideas will not help. They will not be able to conquer over the atheistic world. Actually, if there is organized party who believe in God factually, then this demon class of men will always be vanquished. Yes. Just like there was war between the surāsura, demigods and the asuras. God, Viṣṇu, took side of the demigods and came out victorious. But if both of them are demons, why Viṣṇu will take side of anyone of them? "You fight and go to hell." That is going on.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Yaśomatīnandana: One who is learning by seeing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. One who knows that these material things, it has got a beginning and it has got an end... In every day we see that. Even with our body we see that it has a beginning and it has an end. I have seen my father was born and he died. So I am also born; I'll also die. My son is also born; my son will die. This is real experience. But if somebody says that "I shall not die. We are trying to become immortal," so that is foolishness. That is foolishness. By experience from time immemorial, historical reference, there is no such thing as immortality. But if somebody says, "By chemical evolution we shall become immortal..." Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness proposition is that human life is meant for factual knowledge or ultimate knowledge. But these rascals are checking that progress. That means the prerogative of human life is being denied to the human society. So this kind of hindrances should be stopped, either by soliciting or even by force, because the human society is being ruined. These things have to be stopped. Therefore I was inquiring that "Why American went to Vietnam?" To stop communism, but that sort of stopping will not make any solution. We have to stop demoniac civilization. Then the human society will be happy and in normal condition.

Morning Walk -- December 31, 1973, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: So unless they become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then there is no solution.

Prabhupāda: No. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. There cannot be any good quality in human society unless accepts Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the... This dog is thinking that we may not cheat him, from the back we may not attack him. Just see. Therefore he is stopping.

Bahulāśva: He doesn't know that you are the ever well-wisher, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So you are going to carry the message to the government?

Prajāpati: Yes. Śrīla Prabhupāda. We're working on a...

Prabhupāda: That issue metal coin and the problem will be solved. But they will not take your advice.

Prajāpati: This is part of our platform. To even run for political office, we need solutions to the problems to offer as a platform. We will draw up various bills, ready for legislation, show them that we are serious.

Prabhupāda: So how you'll present it? The cheating process is going on. Unless you become God conscious, the cheating process will not stop. So there is no solution.

Morning Walk -- December 31, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The government allow?

South American Devotee: Oh yeah.

Prabhupāda: It is legal. Just see. Where it is?

South American Devotee: South Argentina.

Prabhupāda: Now, if you analyze the present human society, you will find there is not a single human being. All animals. All animals. Not a single human being. (Bengali) What is time now?

Bahulāśva: Nine o'clock, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So let us go. (break) People, they do not know what is the aim of life. That is the difficulty.

Viṣṇujana: Yes. From childhood they are taught sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: That's all. They do not know that for sense gratification, enough facility is there in the animal kingdom. So if you want to give facility for sense gratification, does it mean that you want to become more than or less than animal? Not more than.

Viṣṇujana: They want dog's life. They think dog's life is good life. They have to work hard and the dog stays at home all day and enjoys in their nice big house. So they think, "I would be better to be the dog."

Prabhupāda: So they have become. But when he becomes street dog? That means he has to depend on good master. Big apartment for dog means he belongs to the master. So he has to find out a good master. But if he fails to find out a good master, then he's street dog. Dog's life is good, provided he gets a good master. So therefore we have decided to become dog of Kṛṣṇa, (laughter) the best master. And the master says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ: (BG 18.66) "I will give you protection." So why not become dog of Kṛṣṇa?

Prajāpati: He will be flea a on Kṛṣṇa's dog.