Śyāmasundara: My only interest is in the dictatorship of the proletariat, that everyone should have an equal opportunity, equal pay, equal property, everything.
Prabhupāda: That is theory, but it will never be successful. Why in Russia there is manager's pay and the worker's pay? Why not equal pay?
Revatīnandana: He says, "Abolish that." Mao says, "Abolish that system."
Devotee: No, Russia is not a Communist state.
Revatīnandana: The Chinese scoff at the Russians, that they are not Communist. They say we will not abide by this different manager... Only one pay scale for everybody.
Prabhupāda: First of all, this Communistic idea came from Russia and China imitated.
Devotee: Well, it came out of the proponent philosophers.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, the Russia is supposed to be leader of the Communistic idea.
Revatīnandana: They don't accept anymore. There is Mao...
Prabhupāda: Similarly, sometimes after, he will not be accepted. That is my proposition. As Russia is not accepted now, some days after, he will not be accepted. Similarly, your also theory will fail. That is my proposition. Because I challenge that your theory is not perfect. Because Russia's theory was not perfect, it has failed. Similarly, I say your theory is also imperfect, therefore it will fail. Anything imperfect will fail. That is my proposition.
Revatīnandana: His propaganda is that it is perfect because it has made the Chinese people...
Prabhupāda: Propaganda, by propaganda you can do anything. That is different thing. But fact is fact. If you theory is not perfect, you make however propaganda, it will fail.
Śyāmasundara: But our people are all employed, they are all clothed nicely...
Prabhupāda: Temporarily it may be very glittering. Just like a polished thing, temporarily it looks very brilliant, shine. But in course of time it will become black. That's all. Because it is not actually shining. Gold shining and artificial shining, there is difference.
Śyāmasundara: He says that these class conflicts can be resolved through prosecution and repression of counter-revolutionaries at home, and...
Prabhupāda: That is going on. It is not a new thing, that in order to establish peace you kill somebody.
Śyāmasundara: If there's any counter-revolutionaries, you prosecute or repress them.
Prabhupāda: That is going on. That is not a new thing. That is going on in the animal kingdom. What is the use of your philosophy? Without having philosophy, this is going on in the animal kingdom. So what is the use of your philosophy? By philosophy, you give something which will not create any conflict. But by conflict, by crushing, by subduing, if you want to establish your peace, then what is the value of this peace?
Śyāmasundara: He says we also have to prevent foreign intervention.
Prabhupāda: If your theory is perfect, why there should be foreign intervention?
Revatīnandana: How foreign intervention will be dangerous to you if you are perfect?
Śyāmasundara: Well, because the capitalists are...
Prabhupāda: That is bias. Your people also become capitalist. Why Kruschev was driven away? Because he was becoming... So because you are all imperfect, you think in a different way, but ultimately you will find that it is useless. Childish. That's all.
Śyāmasundara: Now they are making friends with the capitalist materialists. The capitalist materialists were flown to Peking recently to save Mao Tse Tung's life because he was dying of a major heart attack. So they called a major scientist from America to help save his life. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Revatīnandana: Now they have invited the American president to come there for talks. The imperfect one, they are inviting to talk with him now for some compromise.
Prabhupāda: This is described in Bhāgavata: punah punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), "chewing the chewed." Once it is chewed, it is thrown away, and then again, "Let me see if there is any juice." (laughter) Chewing the chewed. Or in plain words, mental concoction. The mind's business is acceptance and rejection. First of all, reject American capitalists; then again accept for consulting. That means they are hovering on the mental plane. They have no intelligence. In big scale, accepting and rejecting. That's all. It is the business of the mind. As in your personal mind you see, you accept something immediately and again reject, "No, no, it is not good." The same thing is going on in a bigger scale. That's all. They are not... Just like a pickpocket and a big scientific thief. Huh? They are trying to... Modern, scientifically, they want to rob the bank. They set the bomb. And pickpocket is satisfied by taking one paisa from your pocket. But the principle is stealing. Because you are very organized thief, it does not mean from the eyes of the law you are honest. You cannot say in the court that "I am organized thief. I am scientific thief, and he is a pickpocket." In the eyes of the law you are also punishable, he is also punishable. That's all. So they are, I mean to say, large-scale speculators. That's all. But it is, after all, speculation. It has no fact.
Śyāmasundara: So these governments, meaning American government or Chinese government, they live on slogans, on ideas, mental concoctions.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Mental concoction. They are not perfect. Perfection is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If they are intelligent, they should consider this movement very seriously and apply it for practical life all over the world. That will make people happy.
Śyāmasundara: So that's all.
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Devotee: Is it not a fallacy to think that by adding sense gratification we will decrease the demands, desires for more?
Prabhupāda: That is not possible. Adding sense gratification means adding ghee, pouring ghee on the fire.
Devotee: Yes. But some has to be there as the senses, which they're denying. The basis of their ideology is that conflict brings about growth or progress. If they want a peaceful society, they're still trying to get rid of their conflicts.
Prabhupāda: That we have discussed in the beginning. Conflict must be decided by higher intelligence. Just like I have given yesterday, there is conflict between two litigants and the high-court judge decides. So conflict there must be, but it must be decided by higher authorities. That's all. Otherwise it will go on. If you don't go to the higher authorities, then it will go on. It will never end, conflict.