Śyāmasundara: Yes. Dewey's definition of truth is that truth is the means of satisfying human needs and improving social conditions which create problems. So he sees truth as a practical tool...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: ...to solve social problems.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Social problems... We have mismanaged social problems because Kṛṣṇa is perfect, so whatever He has created, that is perfect. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate, pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate (Iso Invocation). So everything is perfect, but because we want to disturb Kṛṣṇa by disobeying His order, things appear to be imperfect. (aside in Hindi) So if we remain faithful to Kṛṣṇa, there is no problem. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). So we are presenting this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement as the solution of all problems. Let any intelligent man come and discuss with us, and we think that we shall be able to convince him that this is the only suggestion. (Hindi aside with guest)
Śyāmasundara: He says that truth is useful and it is public and is objective, and it benefits to society, not merely the individual.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That truth people do not know. The Bhagavad-gītā gives us information of that truth: na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). They do not know that the ultimate truth, ultimate objective is Viṣṇu. Without reference to Viṣṇu they are trying to solve the problems of the world differently. That is not possible.
Śyāmasundara: How does worship of Viṣṇu solve social problems? Just like in Calcutta there are more social problems than practically anywhere.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Viṣṇu... In the Viṣṇu Purāṇa, it is said that varṇāśrama-dharma. Varnāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān (CC Madhya 8.58). Any man who executes this varṇāśrama-dharma, he satisfies Viṣṇu. The varṇāśrama-dharma is there, and the brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, the vaiśyas, and the śūdras. So according as they are prescribed, how the brāhmaṇas should live, how the kṣatriyas should live, how the..., then there is no trouble. The whole problem is solved. But they have killed the varṇāśrama-dharma. They are now all śūdras. The śūdras, how they can make solutions? Śūdras means nonintelligent persons. So what they can do? They are running on democratic government voted by the śūdras. So what these rascal śūdras will do? They require... Śūdras are meant for serving the higher sections—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya. And if the śūdras are given government... Just like we are seeing, in Africa they have been given independence, but they have not improved. The Englishman is still controlling, the Indians are still controlling. And what is the meaning of their so-called self-ruling? We have seen it, still they are poor, because they are śūdras. Śūdras have no brain. In America also, the whole America once belonged to the Red Indians. Why they could not improve? The land was there. Why these foreigners, the Europeans, came and improved? So śūdras cannot do this. They cannot make any correction. Now people are becoming śūdras by so-called education. So they cannot make any solution of the problems. If that daiva varṇāśrama again established, then the whole problem will be solved. That was the plan of my Guru Mahārāja, daiva-varṇāśrama city. Daiva varṇāśrama means that it is stated by Kṛṣṇa, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). By qualification, by the work, one should be brāhmaṇa. By qualification, by work, one should be kṣatriya. By qualification, by work, one should be vaiśya. By qualification, by work, one should be śūdra. When this order is established, that is called varṇāśrama-dharma. Then Viṣṇu, Lord, will be happy, and He will give us... He is already giving. Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. Actually, He's giving us all the necessities of life. But because we are now śūdras and devoid of devotional service, so prakṛti is controlling the supply. That is the difference. That is stated in connection with Pṛthu Mahārāja. Pṛthu Mahārāja, because there was not enough production, he wanted to kill the pṛthvī. So he says that "That's all right, but I am controlling because production is meant for performing yajña. These rascals, the demons, they are simply eating. They are not performing yajña. Therefore I am controlling." Saho yajña pratiṣṭhita. The whole plan is that the living entities, especially the human beings, they are meant for performing yajña. Yajña means to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Viṣṇu. The Bhagavad-gītā also says, yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā na tyājam. You cannot give up these three things, even if you are in the renounced order of life. Yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā. It is just like our Vaiṣṇava sannyāsīs, they are performing saṅkīrtana yajña and they are distributing Kṛṣṇa love. And to keep themselves fit, they are observing the rules and regulations and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā. Following the rules and regulations and regularly chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, that is tapasya. And this is the best dāna, charity. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was eulogized by Rūpa Gosvāmī: namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te (CC Madhya 19.53). "You are the most munificent incarnation because You are giving love of Godhead." So those who are distributing the idea of love of Godhead, they are the best charitably disposed man. So we, we have not given up yajña-dāna-tapaḥ. That is not to be renounced. Because a sannyāsī is renounced. Renounced means he should renounce his sense gratification, not renounce these things, yajña-dana-tapaḥ.
Śyāmasundara: So these three items are necessary to solve social...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes!
Śyāmasundara: So everyone should try...
Prabhupāda: For everyone. Especially if..., not everyone. Yajña for the brahmacārīs, dāna for the householders, gṛhastha, and tapa for the renounced. Tapasya. If it is not done all, at least these three classes of men should not give up their occupation, yajña-dāna-tapaś caiva pāvanāni manīṣiṇām. Yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā, pāvanāni manīṣiṇām. Even if you think that you are very highly elevated, still, yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā is necessary for you. You should not give it up.