Kim: Can one say what qualities the ātman has?
Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. Eternity, knowledge and blissfulness.
Kim: And does Hindu philosophy say anything about...
Prabhupāda: Don't talk Hindu philosophy, talk of philosophy.
Kim: Philosophy. How the ātman came into being?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Kim: How did the ātman come into being?
Prabhupāda: Ātmā is not coming into being, it is already there. But at the present moment it is accepting different types of bodies. Just like your this dress is available in the market. And you are also there, so you purchase the dress and put on. Similarly, the different types of bodies are already there. You according to your desire accept one type of body, and you appear in that body. There are 8,400,000 different forms of body, and you have to accept one of them. According to desire. According to your work. You are working. Everyone is working. Now, according to the work and association, he is creating his body. Just like if you infect some type of disease, then you'll have to accept that disease. So we are working ways—we are individuals—and according to that work we are creating our next body. If you are working in a godly way, then you'll get your body next as god, and if you are working in a dogly way, then you'll get your body as dog. So, by nature's way, evolution, we come through 800 millions of forms of life, then nature gives us a chance to accept this human form of body. In this body, our consciousness being advanced, if we try we can understand what is the problem of life, why we have accepted birth, death, old age and disease, how to get out of these, how to revive our original nature of body and again become eternal, full of knowledge and bliss. This is the chance of the human body. Therefore you are a philosopher because you are in the human body, but a dog cannot be a philosopher. He may be a very big dog, can bark very loudly, he has got very good strength, can create big disturbance, but he cannot understand philosophy. That is not possible. But a human being can understand. Therefore he should be given chance to understand the philosophy of life. And that is Vedas.
Kim: That is?
Prabhupāda: Vedas.
Kim: Oh, Vedas, yes.
Prabhupāda: The Vedas are there for understanding by the human society. And if he lives like a cat and dog, then he spoils his life. We should take advantage of the Vedic knowledge and make our life successful. This is real philosophy.
Kim: I'm not very familiar with the Hindu scriptures, but I have read some Upaniṣads, and there's the idea that somehow ātman is Brahman? I don't understand that at all, so perhaps you could say something about that?
Prabhupāda: Which Upaniṣad are you reading?
Kim: I've read the Chāndogya, the—I don't know the pronunciations.
Prabhupāda: There are one hundred and eight Upaniṣads.
Kim: I don't know the pronunciations, that's the difficulty.
Prabhupāda: Have you read Īśopaniṣad?
Kim: Pardon?
Prabhupāda: Īśopaniṣad.
Kim: I'm familiar with the name, but that's about all.
Prabhupāda: Give him Īśopaniṣad. Read from the beginning. Have you read this book? This is the first Upaniṣad that is read. Can you read Sanskrit?
Kim: No.
Prabhupāda: Transliteration?
Amogha: You just read the sound.
Kim:
- oṁ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idaṁ
- pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate
- pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya
- pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate
(Iso Invocation)
Prabhupāda: Read the translation.
Kim: "The Personality of Godhead is perfect and complete, and because He is completely perfect, all emanations from Him, such as this phenomenal world, are perfectly equipped as complete wholes. Whatever is produced of the complete whole is also complete in itself. Because He is the complete whole, even though so many complete units emanate from Him, He remains the complete balance."
Prabhupāda: Now read the purport. After reading the translation do you understand everything?
Kim: No. (reads purport to) "...and Paramātmā or Supersoul realization is the realization of His sat and cit features." I don't understand that. I read the words, but...
Prabhupāda: It requires elucidation. "Complete whole" means, just like your body is complete whole, and there are so many other things, there are so many holes in the body, there are so many hairs on the body, there are so many hairs on the head, so many fingers, eyes, ears—so many things—but the body is a complete unit, working as a complete machine. And there are so many things. Similarly, the whole cosmos is complete, exactly like this body is a machine. Similarly the whole cosmos is a big machine. It is complete. One sun is there and keeping everything complete. The day and night, the seasonal changes, the equator, the temperature, the moonlight, the other planets, we living beings, the vegetables—everything is complete by God. And because the sun is there. Similarly, this body, machine, is complete. And the soul is there, it is working nicely. The body is also a creation, and the universe is also a creation, and the brain which has created these things, He is complete. Therefore He has created these complete units. That is the idea. Pūrṇam idaṁ (Iso Invocation). Pūrṇaḥ means complete. And because He is complete, the Creator, He has no defect; therefore He can create everything complete. Pūrṇam idaṁ, pūrṇam adaḥ, pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate. And He is so complete that pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya, from the complete, if you take the whole complete, still He is complete. Here is a glass of water; I am drinking. Drinking part by part. And when it is finished, the water is finished, no more complete. But He is so complete, that just like the sun, the temperature is being distributed for million and millions of years, still it is full of temperature. Here, unless the electric power is there, it is not complete. But there is power in the sunshine. It is a reservoir of so much temperature and light, that in history millions and millions of years it is distributing, the seasonal changes are going on, the green foliage is coming again, the snow and rain is coming, so many things are going on account of temperature. Any machine is rolling, just like as soon as there is power the machine is rolling. In all machines, your bodily machine, my bodily machine, and electric machines and other powered machines—everything is going on. Pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate. And in spite of taking so much energy from the sun, it is still full of light and energy. This is one of the creations of the Supreme. Now how much perfect is the Supreme? Its one of the creations, sun, is maintaining the whole universe. And there are many millions of universes, and each of them has got a sun to conduct the business. And all these suns are created by somebody. How much complete He is? You can just imagine. That is God. God is not such a cheap thing. People become God, "I am God." You are a nonsense rascal. What you can do? These are bluff. They do not know what is God. Here is God—complete. Pūrṇam adaḥ, pūrṇam idaṁ (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation). The whole creation is complete, still He is complete. The energy is coming from here, still He is complete. This energy also. A glass of water, I throw the glass, and water again is coming. Again I throw, again it is coming. Incessantly coming, all the energies. This is the idea of God. Pūrṇam idaṁ (Iso Invocation), pūrṇam adaḥ, pūrṇam idaṁ, pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate, pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya, pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate. One minus one equals one, not zero. One plus one equals one, not two. This is complete. This is the idea of God. Just like the ocean. You take many thousands of buckets of water out, still it is complete. And again you put many buckets, thousands, millions of buckets of water, it is the same depth. This is another example. Material example. This is complete. You take millions of buckets of water from the ocean, you'll find not a drop is lost. And you put millions of buckets of water again, not a drop is increased. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate. If you try to take out the whole ocean, still it will remain the ocean. This is the idea of complete.