Expressions researched:
"household"
|"householder"
|"householder's"
|"householders"
|"householding"
|"households"
Madhudviṣa: No, it seemed like that was the style during those days, long hair.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Also from the pictures we see that the residents of Nabadwip and Māyāpur seemed to have long hair, the householders.
Prabhupāda: Then why this statement is there, lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam? If it is approved, why Bhāgavata criticizing?
Harikeśa: Was long hair a sign of beauty in those days?
Prabhupāda: It was not meant for everyone.
Harikeśa: Kṣatriyas.
Prabhupāda: If they do not follow the rules and regulations, then what is the use?
Hṛdayānanda: We were thinking that unless someone is a preacher, he has no real business in the city. Let him go have a peaceful life out on the farm.
Yaśodānandana: It has been seen that when many householders come together in many of our big communities, because there are so many women and children, there is a great atmosphere of laziness a lot of times. I have seen in Los Angeles and also in many other temples. But when there's a lot of brahmacārīs preaching, it's much more enlivening.
Prabhupāda: So now you make some regulation. Otherwise... Attending class? No.
Hṛdayānanda: Excuse me?
Guru-kṛpā: Actually, in...
Gargamuni: Because they do not take marriage life seriously in this age.
Guru-kṛpā: In the temples, they engage the brahmacārīs to support the householders.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guru-kṛpā: The brahmacārīs are supporting the householders.
Prabhupāda: How?
Guru-kṛpā: Well, they are doing the saṅkīrtana and collecting the funds, and the householders are spending.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh?
Madhudviṣa: The resolutions that we made were wrong. Prabhupāda rectified us.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In what regard?
Madhudviṣa: We made a resolution that if a householder gets married, then he has to take care of his wife for the rest of his life till he takes sannyāsa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, Prabhupāda corrected that.
Madhudviṣa: Yeah. So that resolution was wrong. And also the resolution about the women and the children coming to the temple, not accepting them, that was also wrong.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So now what's the point?
Madhudviṣa: So now they're rectified.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So now what is the point?
Madhudviṣa: I'm just saying that we should have a more practical understanding of this, of our attitude towards the whole situation.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's why Prabhupāda corrected us.
Prabhupāda: So I think it may be further decided. Make a small committee of three or four gṛhasthas, and you define how you live.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We find in the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam that Śukadeva Gosvāmī would approach the householders in the morning just so long as to give them a little bit of spiritual knowledge, and he would accept the offering of some milk. So the sannyāsīs and renunciates, generally, they wouldn't very much relish the association of householders because of this enjoying spirit and the association that it entails. So we're finding also within our society that those who are inclined towards remaining celibate, they're finding the association of persons even within our movement who have this enjoying spirit to be somewhat detrimental to their own spiritual life.
Guru-kṛpā: Gṛhe thāko vanete thāko...
Prabhupāda: Then. What is your proposal? They should go away?
Prabhupāda: I do not follow.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He's saying that sometimes the brahmacārīs, even the sannyāsīs, they may have a very strong aversion towards association with women and/or householder life, things of this nature. And sometimes the gṛhasthas will criticize the sannyāsīs and brahmacārīs that "This is fanaticism," or it's, to the other end, "It's just as bad as the enjoying spirit, because you're meditating on the same thing, but only you're averse to it." So what is the...? Bhāgavata dāsa's question is "What is the condition?" Is it better to be neutral or to be averse?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Neutral.
Prabhupāda: Ten years. I began this movement when I was seventy years old.
Interviewer: What were you before that?
Prabhupāda: I was householder. And I retired, and I was living in Vṛndāvana, a holy place in India. My Guru Mahārāja asked me to do this. So I could not begin earlier. So I thought it wise to begin at seventy years. So somehow or other, Kṛṣṇa has given us some opportunity to get cooperation of these young boys, and they're helping me.
Interviewer: What is your opinion of the Guru Maharaj-ji?
Devotee: What is your opinion of Guru Maharaj-ji?
Prabhupāda: Huh? Not only Guru Maharaj-ji, so many Mahārāja. So this movement is authorized. Others, they are some imaginary sentiments. That's all. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is authorized movement, Vedic culture. And they, in the name of Vedic culture, talking some nonsense. That's all. That is the difference. Do you know about Guru Maharaj-ji?
Devotee: And what about householders?
Prabhupāda: Householder can eat the whole world and sleep. (laughter) Because he is householder, he has got the concession. Everyone should do that. Householders are unable; that is their incapability. "Because I am householder, I have got the facility to have sex as many times and eat as much..." That is not householder. That is gṛhamedhī. There are two words: gṛhamedhī and gṛhastha. Gṛhastha is different from gṛhamedhī. Gṛhastha āśrama. Although he's householder, it is āśrama, only for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is gṛhastha. But gṛhamedhī cannot do that. (break) ...man has got the potency. Otherwise why they are offering...? Everyone has got the potency. We have to utilize it. Hare Kṛṣṇa. You understand English?
Prabhupāda: This is especially meant for the brāhmaṇas, intelligent. Go on.
Hṛdayānanda:
"What person too attached to household life due to being unable to control his senses can liberate himself? An attached householder is bound very strongly by ropes of affection for his family—wife, children and other relatives." Purport: "Prahlāda Mahārāja's first proposal was kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha: (SB 7.6.1) 'One who is sufficiently intelligent should use the human form of body from the very beginning of life—in other words, from the tender age of childhood—to practice the activities of devotional service, giving up all other engagements.'
Prabhupāda: While in the material world we manufacture so many duties in the name of so many isms, but our actual duty is to free ourselves from the cycle of birth, death, old age and disease. For this purpose, one must first be liberated from material bondage, and especially from household life. Household life is actually a kind of license for a materially attached person by which to enjoy sense gratification under regulative principles. Otherwise there is no need of entering household life. Before entering household life, one should be trained as a brahmacārī, living under the care of the guru, whose place is known as the guru-kula. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). From the very beginning, a brahmacārī is trained to sacrifice everything for the benefit of the guru. A brahmacārī is advised to go begging alms door to door, addressing all women as mother, and whatever he collects goes to the benefit of the guru. In this way he learns how to control his senses and sacrifice everything for the guru.
Prabhupāda: A trained gṛhastha can gradually give up household life and go to the forest to become increasingly enlightened in spiritual life and at last take sannyāsa. Prahlāda Mahārāja explained to his father that to be freed from all material anxieties one should go to the forest. Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam. One should give up his household, which is a place for going further and further down into the darkest regions of material existence. The first advice, therefore, is that one must give up household life (gṛham andha-kūpam). However, if one prefers to remain in the dark well of household life because of uncontrolled senses, he becomes increasingly entangled by ropes of affection for his wife, children, servants, house, money and so on. Such a person cannot attain liberation from material bondage. Therefore children should be taught from the very beginning of life to be first-class brahmacārīs.
Such a person cannot attain liberation from material bondage. Therefore children should be taught from the very beginning of life to be first-class brahmacārīs. Then it will be possible for them to give up household life in the future. To return home, back to Godhead, one must be completely free from material attachment. Therefore, bhakti-yoga means vairāgya-vidyā, the art that can help one develop a distaste for material enjoyment.
Hṛdayānanda:
"Money is so dear that one conceives of money as being sweeter than honey. Therefore, who can give up the desire to accumulate money, especially in household life? Thieves, professional servants, soldiers and merchants try to acquire money even..."
Prabhupāda: Here is a very nice example. Soldiers. They know "We are going to give up our life." And what for? "Money." (laughs) They are prepared to give up life for money. Money is so sweeter than honey. (laughs) And thieves, they go at night for burglary. He knows that "If I trespass anyone's house, he can kill me immediately." But still he takes the risk for money. That is all explained here. What is the verse?
Richard: Living in an āśrama.
Prabhupāda: Not living..., to take the philosophy. Follow the policy or process; then your life is successful.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Just like our householders, they have their apartments, but they're always associated with Kṛṣṇa's service.
Richard: Right.
Prabhupāda: Just like we are writing so many books to give them enlightenment. This is the process. It is an educational movement, how to overcome these obstacles. That is the sum and substance.
Richard: Do you think there are any other ways which are equally effective?
Prabhupāda: No.
Prabhupāda: No. It is all right. You sit down. It is fine, you can sit. No, no.
Hari-śauri: Sit over this side.
Jayādvaita: "The sons of Dhṛtarāṣṭra, whom if we killed we should not care to live, are now standing before us on this battlefield." Arjuna did not know whether he should fight and risk unnecessary violence, although fighting is the duty of the kṣatriyas, or whether he should refrain and live by begging. If he did not conquer the enemy, begging would be his only means of subsistence. Nor was there certainty of victory, because either side might emerge victorious. Even if victory awaited them (and their cause was justified), still, if the sons of Dhṛtarāṣṭra died in battle, it would be very difficult to live in their absence. Under the circumstances, that would be another kind of defeat for them. All these considerations by Arjuna definitely prove that he was not only a great devotee of the Lord but that he was also highly enlightened and had complete control over his mind and senses. His desire to live by begging, although he was born in the royal household, is another sign of detachment.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Indian man: Yes. Bhaktisiddhānta, your spiritual master.
Prabhupāda: Young age? I was not with him. I was householder. But I used to meet with him. I was following his instructions. (break) ...valley? (indistinct) valley? No.
Viśvakarmā: That's another section, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: That verse, can anyone remember? Yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇaḥ? Huh?
Prabhupāda: No, that we can do. That is first-class.(?) Give caraṇāmṛta and they have given some donation, that's nice.
Viśvakarmā: We can give them a lecture on householder life? Have them sit and give them a lecture and then give them caraṇāmṛta?
Prabhupāda: Who will hear your lecture?
Viśvakarmā: The, all the people that come for this ceremony.
Prabhupāda: They can hold kīrtana. That will be nice, if they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Jagadīśa: They want the fire. They want the fire. They want to have a priest to build, to make a fire ceremony for their wedding. Many Indians ask this.
Prabhupāda: So on the whole, what they are going to pay?
Prabhupāda: No. There are so many. Hmm. What is that?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Purport? "There are many pseudo meditators who misrepresent themselves as belonging to high parentage, and great professional men who falsely pose that they have sacrificed everything for the sake of advancement in spiritual life. Lord Kṛṣṇa did not want Arjuna to become a pretender, but that he perform his prescribed duties as set forth for kṣatriyas. Arjuna was a householder and a military general, and therefore it was better for him to remain as such and perform his religious duties as prescribed for the householder kṣatriya. Such activities gradually cleanse the heart of a mundane man and free him from material contamination. So-called renunciation for the purpose of maintenance is never approved by the Lord, nor by any religious scripture.
Prabhupāda: As a gentleman, if you go to somebody's house, you require his permission, but India, still, a sannyāsī doesn't require any permission. He can enter in any householder's house: "Mother, give me some food." This is the introduction. Not that he has gone there for food, but easy introduction. And generally the householder will receive a sannyāsī, "Yes, Swamiji, come here, sit down." They will offer obeisances and then they begin talks. This is the meaning. Not that he is hankering after food. This is only introduction. He's not a beggar. But people take advantage of this dress because they think that "Without any work I can beg and live." That is going on in India.
Prabhupāda: Woman should be expert in cooking. That is their natural tendency. They should be educated how to cook nicely, how to please the husband, how to take care of the children. This is Vedic civilization. In the beginning a woman, childhood, she's trained up by the mother. Then as soon as she is married, formerly, child-marriage, so she's transferred to the care of mother-in-law. There she is trained up. Then she becomes very good housewife, takes care of household affairs, husband, children, and home becomes happy. What is this nonsense, divorce? There is no such thing in the Vedic civilization, divorce. You must accept whatever God has given you as husband or wife, you must. They had no thinking even, idea of divorce. One may not agree with the husband. That is natural. Sometimes we do not agree. But there is no question of divorce.
Prabhupāda: They are inventing. What can I do? If you invent your own way...
Devotee: I have a question, Śrīla Prabhupāda. At what point is a householder to know when he should leave his family or her family?
Prabhupāda: After fifty years of age.
Rūpānuga: Fifty years old.
Prabhupāda: When he is fifty years old, then he can think of leaving household.
Devotee: What if the spouse is very antagonistic toward Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: Antagonistic?
Prabhupāda: You can just make smaller.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right.
Rāmeśvara: We had a good success because we sent out all the householders to the parks. During that holiday everyone goes to the parks. So the householders took their children and they set up a tent, and one of them stayed there babysitting and all the others went out distributing your books. So in that way they went out on traveling saṅkīrtana.
Prabhupāda: What is the name of that boy? He sold one Caitanya-caritāmṛta to a chemist?
Devotee: Praghoṣa?
Prabhupāda: No, no, why one should not call a wife a mother? Is that very great advancement? But this rascal was impotent, he had no other alternative, so he manufactured some idea and people thought, "Oh, he's so devotee of goddess of Kālī that he sees even his wife as mother." This story he told me by Guru Mahārāja personally. He was talking with me privately somewhere, although I was a bad householder. (laughs) He was very kind upon me. And whatever is being done by his blessing, that's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, what time do you take your bath? Because I can get hot..., you know we have a big heater in this building. So for hot water...
Hari-śauri: Sometimes between quarter to one.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That means I am not accepting you as intimate. And if he accepts, then you cannot deny his friendship. About one hundreds years ago in Bengal in the aristocratic circle, the guests invited and very sumptuously food distributed, and then the gentlemen, guests, they come and see only, they will simply say "Oh, it is very nicely done." They'll not eat, and go away. Then the foodstuff will be distributed among the servants. This was aristocracy. They'll not eat, they will simply see and appreciate, "Oh, you have so many varieties, very nice." Then they'll go. And the household servants and others, they eat it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why didn't they eat it?
Prabhupāda: That was the custom.
Bali-mardana: That is a dry philosophy. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: No, any intelligent man can become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That I have already explained, that unless one is very intelligent, he cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So it is open for everyone. But there are different grades of intelligence. In Europe, America, they are intelligent, but their intelligence is utilized for material purposes. And in India their intelligence is utilized for spiritual purpose. Therefore you find so many highly spiritual standard of life, books, literature. Just like Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva was also in householder life, but he was living in the forest, and see his contribution of literature. Nobody can dream even. So by literary contribution, one's intelligence is tested. All big, big men of the material world, scientists, philosophers, even technicians, they are recognized by their writings, by their contribution, not by their gigantic body.
Prabhupāda: No, if... The purpose is to train a person in brahmacārī, not to enter into the entanglement of this material life. That is Vedic system. Basic principle is that don't be entangled with this material energy. So at the early age, up to twenty-five, he's trained up. If he can, he can continue as brahmacārī. He directly can take sannyāsa. But if he's unable, so let him go by step by step. Let him become a family, householder life, then retired life, then... But sannyāsa at the end, that is compulsory, not that unless he is shot down by somebody, he's not going to give up family life. That is not Vedic system.
Interviewer: But young men don't tend to be wise, do they?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: No, if he's trained up. Just like here we have got so many young men. They are trained up. So there is no prohibition that a young man cannot become a sannyāsa. If he's able, he can take sannyāsa from the very beginning. But if he's not able, let him enter into household life and then remain as householder up to fiftieth year, then retire, then take sannyāsa. It is not an enforcement. A gradual process. But the ultimate end is to become free from all material attachment and completely devote life for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the ultimate end. Because human life is meant for that purpose, self-realization or spiritual realization, that opportunity must be given to all human beings. Unfortunately at the present moment the civilization has no scope for spiritual realization. They live like other animals, eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That's all. They do not know there is another life, spiritual life, and neither there is any education or institution to educate them. Now we are trying for that purpose.
Prabhupāda: No, initiation is another ceremony.
Indian man: What are the qualifications required for a person in working life like me, household like me, like myself, to get initiated?
Prabhupāda: No, you can be initiated. There is no... Because you are following the rules and regulations. That's it. We initiate a person who follows the rules and regulations.
Indian man: I am following all your rules and regulations.
Prabhupāda: Then you can be initiated.
Indian man: Yes. I think we have taken enough of your time, Prabhupāda. I would love to stay with you, and I would like to invite you to...
Prabhupāda: Why don't you stay here in our temple?
Pradyumna: That's his place, Puruṣottama Gosāi.
Gurudāsa: He's not a sannyāsī.
Prabhupāda: He's not sannyāsī, he is householder.
Jayatīrtha: He's married man.
George Harrison: Yes, he had.... His son lived there.
Jayatīrtha: Yes.
George Harrison: But maybe he's taken, I don't know, I thought he had a daṇḍa, one of those staffs. I saw the little temple in the garden, Kṛṣṇa and Rādhā, where they stay in bed. It's like a bed like this. You know the one?
Pradyumna: Nidhuvana Mandir.
Prabhupāda: Nidhuvana.
Prabhupāda: Sometimes they are called churchmouse. Churchmouse. A mouse in the church, what he'll eat? He's in a householder's place, a mouse is there, he can eat something. But church, nobody's eating there. Simply dust, that's all. (laughter) Churchmouse. Any new mail?
Harikeśa: Stacks of it. Quite a lot.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Where from?
Harikeśa: Want to go over it now? Shall we go over everything now?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhūgarbha: He's asking that in view of that, is it possible to live a household life and at the same time a spiritual life?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Arjuna, Arjuna is a householder, he's a military man, but the greatest devotee of Kṛṣṇa.
Bhūgarbha: He wants you to mention something about the translations. He wants to express his opinion about the translations that the French translators are doing of your books.
Prabhupāda: He is doing?
Prabhupāda: That is our choice, if we want to be intelligent or rascal. Practically. What we have gained by this so-called material advancement? They have created problem, different problems. That's all. But still, we think that it is progress. And this is going on. Without God's sanction you cannot do anything, that's a fact. But what kind of sanction it is, that you have to understand. God is creator, God is giving sanction, everything is God. Otherwise how He is God? But He has to do. There is a story like that, that the thief is praying to God, "My Lord, give me the chance I can make some stealing in that house." And the householder also praying to God, "My Lord, please save my house, my things may not be stolen." Now God has to adjust, God has to please the thief and the householder. And both of them are prayers. So God has so intelligence, He can do that. He can give the sanction to the thief and He can give protection to the householder. That is God's position. Because both of them prayers, praying, "Give me the facility."
Prabhupāda: Oh, then it is all right.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: And the restaurant will be just downstairs.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Brahmacārī will be upstairs. Householders live in the other place, and the Deity will be there.
Prabhupāda: Then it is all right. Very good explanation(?). But people in this land, they will come for a restaurant, customer?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, this is very good neighborhood.
Prabhupāda: As soon as they understand, they will come.
Hari-śauri: It's very easy just to try to brush it all under the couch and forget about it.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) A man's household utensils was taken by the thief. He promised, "I shall not purchase anymore utensils, I shall eat on the floor. (laughs) Because the thief has stolen my plates, I'm not going to purchase anymore, I shall eat on the floor. (Bengali)
Hari-śauri: They give the example that just because someone may be passing counterfeit money, that doesn't mean that all the money you get...
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. They conclude that no more take any money, all counterfeit. At least in India, Bhagavad-gītā is there, accepted, the God-science literature all over the world.
Devotee (3): Purport. "There are many pseudo-meditators who misrepresent themselves as belonging to high parentage, and great professional men who falsely pose that they have sacrificed everything for the sake of advancement in spiritual life. Lord Kṛṣṇa did not want Arjuna to become a pretender, but that he perform his prescribed duties as set for kṣatriyas. Arjuna was a householder and a military general, and therefore it was better for him to remain as such and perform his religious duties as prescribed for the householder kṣatriya. Such activities gradually cleanse the heart..."
Prabhupāda: You are following? Go on.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Tamarind, so many preparations. So make like that. Why dog eating? They are not dogs. You cannot expect, because you are giving some dog eatable food, they will come. There must be one first class cook, and all our men should learn. There's no need of simply keeping unduly: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, and sleeping. We don't want such men. Make a show. And do not know anything how to preach. Useless. The householder, the women should be engaged in cooking. Their children should be gathered together. One man... I have said many times, all the children should be taken in a room by one woman, and others should be engaged in the cooking department. I have seen it. Your country, America. When they go to church, all the childrens are gathered together in a room. Is it not?
Devotees: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And one or two men take care. And others, they go. Similarly, children they must have, so... Not that everyone is children busy, "I cannot do." They cannot do if they are busy with children. What is the use of keeping such householders? Let them live outside, earn their money. Women business is to cleanse, to cut the vegetables, to cook, what is this? They're simply busy with the children? And they have started their mission for maintaining some children, and useless women. You should organize. Rādhikāra pakka anna vividha byañjana. All the gopīs, they are engaged for cooking for Kṛṣṇa. Mother Yaśodā will call them, "You young girls, you can cook very nicely."
Prabhupāda: So to understand Kṛṣṇa is not so easy job. First of all one has to become siddha. And not only you become siddha, yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3), even one is siddha it is very difficult for him to understand-tattvataḥ. What Kṛṣṇa means, to understand, it is not so easy job. And again He said, He explains that bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Only the devotees can understand. It is not the business of the karmīs, jñānīs, yogis. He has strictly specified-bhaktyā. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si. When He wanted to instruct Arjuna... Arjuna was a householder, a kṣatriya, not even a brāhmaṇa, not a Vedantist. The question may be why He selected Arjuna to preach Bhagavad-gītā which is so (indistinct) and (indistinct). That Kṛṣṇa says bhakto 'si. "Without being bhakta nobody can understand Me." And again He confirms, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). If we interpret Bhagavad-gītā in a different way, karma, jñāna, yoga, you'll never get Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: But why a woman should be refused? This is not authentic. Why Rūpa Gosvāmī should refuse her? They were bhikṣu, madhukarī. So when one goes for bhikṣā, so how he can check that he will not see any woman? How it is possible? He has to go to the householder, "Mataji, a cāpāṭi lijiye."(?) Or he'll stand. Generally woman comes to give cāpāṭi. So how it is possible to restrict the eyes? That is, he does not...I think I cannot accept this, that Rūpa Gosvāmī refused. Why he should refuse? Vaiṣṇava is kind. But we must mix with women cautiously. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). He never says, "Only to the men."
Indian man: But this body designations are not necessary in this preaching.
Prabhupāda: As far one who is paṇḍita, in the position of Rūpa Gosvāmī, for him, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18).
Dr. Patel: Sex cult...
Prabhupāda: Sex cult, yes, gṛhamedhī. Who stick into family life, that is sex cult. It has no other meaning. It is a concession of sex. To remain in household life means a concession of sex.
Devotee: So now you are sixty-five...
Dr. Patel: No, that is not sex. I am prepared to oppose you for hear.
Prabhupāda: No, I don't hear you. I hear the śāstra.
Dr. Patel: No, but this is also śāstra. Please let me...
Prabhupāda: Yes. "This plan has failed. Now let me this, make this plan. And then again fail? All right, let me this." This is hope against hope. He's thinking that "This plan has failed. Let me do this plan." Again failed? "Again another, again another."
Mr. Asnani: Foundation, as you said, is on the household.
Hari-śauri: Moghāṣā.
Prabhupāda: Moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo mogha-jñānā vicetasaḥ... (BG 9.12).
Hari-śauri: Baffled hope.
Prabhupāda: It will never be fulfilled, but still, they will make plan. The Napoleon made a plan. Hitler made a plan. Churchill made a plan. Gandhi made a plan. Mussolini made a plan. But the plan and planmaker—all washed away. Things are going on as it is. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya: (BG 18.66) "Don't make plan. Take to My plan. You'll be happy. I'll give you." This planmaking... Our government has got planning commission. The planning commission has brought people in such a condition that they are dying of starvation. And they are taking salary, big, big, fat salary. This is going on.
Prabhupāda: If some dish is broken we used to try to join it. That is child's play.
Pradyumna: And the thing about Śukadeva Gosvāmī, that he was actually a different... That chāyā-śuka. He was different from that other... Brahmacārī Śukadeva Gosvāmī, speaker of Bhāgavata, was different from the householder.
Prabhupāda: What is the word?
Pradyumna: It said in the purport, chāyā-śuka. So you said that is like imitation Śuka, duplicate Śukadeva.
Prabhupāda: Oh, chāyā-śuka. Yes. Duplicate. Yes. So it is up to date?
Pradyumna: One little...
Prabhupāda: I am not working nowadays. Still it is not up to date?
Prabhupāda: Bhikṣa-mātā. Bhikṣa means giving alms. At least every woman becomes a bhikṣa-mātā, alms-giving mother. This is system. My mother was bhikṣa-mātā to one brāhmaṇa. He is the son of our priest. Family priest, family guru, vipra-mātā, still in Hindu family, the system is still going on, brāhmaṇa visiting daily, informing, "Today is this tithi. The duty is this, the sunrise at this time is..." This is brāhmaṇa's duty, to go to the neighboring householders, and whatever they give, take. That is brāhmaṇa's art. At the same time, they keep some medicine. Every house there is some ailments. They'll give some medicine. Still. Now it is not so... In our childhood every day some brāhmaṇa visitor would come. So I will take massage like yesterday, early.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Why not take this... Suppose he is attracted by some woman. Let him dress like a gentleman and keep with the woman as husband and wife and preach. What is the wrong there? Whatever is done, you close up that chapter. Now you become a householder. There is no harm. And live as a gentleman householder and preach. But don't play duplicity in the dress of sannyāsī to keep private relations. That is not good. That is duplicity. Better openly become a respectable householder and serve Kṛṣṇa. Our service is main thing, either in this dress or that dress. So if you cannot keep yourself sincerely as a sannyāsī, then get yourself married. But you cannot keep the girl as friend. That is also not good.
Jagadīśa: But for Brahmānanda, he may remain sannyāsī? Brahmānanda?
Prabhupāda: No, you show example. People will do automatically. When the people find it is very nice, they will take.
Hari-śauri: Should we try to make an effort to have our householders go and live on the farms, a special effort? If it's ready to do that?
Prabhupāda: Why householders? Everyone. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (japa)
Rāmeśvara: In America there is a very big emphasis on getting people to join us by moving into our temples. The temple presidents are very eager to get as many people to move in as possible, but in the long run most people cannot come up to the standard.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I am... Farms.
Prabhupāda: Well, this engagement is: "Go and sell books." That engagement is already there.
Rāmeśvara: Yes, but some are not qualified, some householders...
Prabhupāda: It is not the question of quality, of... It doesn't matter whether he sells one book or hundred books. It doesn't matter. Let him be engaged, that's all.
Rāmeśvara: That's what I'm saying. To find the proper engagement, the best utilization of every man's...
Prabhupāda: This is very good engagement, very good engagement. Go door to door. I don't mind if you no sell. But you have gone. That's all. I don't mind. It is not business, that "Because you could not sell anything, your salary will be dismissed." No. There is no such question.
Rāmeśvara: "This is a rare opportunity for people and leaders of every country, every race, and every community in the world to know and understand the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. I would say that this encyclopedia of spiritual knowledge is more important and fundamental than the encyclopedia of any other branch of knowledge and should therefore find a rightful place not only in the public and private libraries, big and small, not only in educational and other institutions, but also in every household, and above all, in the hearts and minds of every man and woman."
Prabhupāda: And he is not ordinary man. He is...
Rāmeśvara: No. He is the Deputy of Lok Sabha Secretariat. You should write more... I have to go over this with you to get more descriptions of each place. Central Government.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Here, the Indian culture, brahmacārī, sannyāsī and brāhmaṇa, they are allowed to beg alms. That is the Vedic culture. And the householders treat them as their own children. This is the relationship.
Satsvarūpa: But what if it's done in a culture where this is entirely different?
Prabhupāda: Therefore there are hippies. This is your culture hippies and murderer in the name of religion. This is their culture. And abortion. Because there is no such culture, therefore the result is the abortion and killing and bombing, making the whole atmosphere abominable. This is your culture. Fighting between Protestant and Catholics, and bombing... People are terrified. They cannot go out in the street. This is your culture. And begging is bad. To keep the people, whole population, in terrified condition, that is very good, and if anyone in a humble way begs, that is bad. This is your culture. Vedic way allows the brahmacārī to beg just to learn humbleness, not beggar.
Prabhupāda: And engagement. Yaśodāmāyi was doing that, even she is the queen of Nanda Mahārāja, what to speak of other women. Churning milk, grinding the wheat, this is their household. We have got that picture. Full engagement. Otherwise gossiping...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Trouble.
Prabhupāda: Trouble. And whisping for laugh. That's all. (laughs) Whisping or whispering?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whispering.
Prabhupāda: (chuckling) "Idle brain, devil's workshop." Then?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I found that our devotees who engage in business, they become a little spiritually weakened because we're not that advanced yet.
Prabhupāda: No, cent percent engagement in, that is hamper. There is no doubt. But to do business as a householder is not bad.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And practically, the position that our society is coming into now, I think it's actually... We should do it, because it will give our society a more balanced appearance. Otherwise they think everyone is beggar. But at least if they see that the brahmacārīs' business is begging...
Prabhupāda: That he should act simply for the benefit of the guru. This is the process. He has no personal interest. He'll go by the order of guru to beg alms from different householders and... They are innocent children. They'll go, ask, "Mother, give me some alms." And the mother also knows that "My child or his child, they are all neighbors' child. They will give." And whatever collection is there, he'll bring it to guru. So he does not claim that "I have collected. It is my property." No. It is guru's property. This is the first training. He works so hard to collect, but the property belongs to the guru. Guror hitam. This is first training. And that is the meaning of karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana. That gentleman was quoting this. He does not know what is the meaning. He... Karmaṇy e... He is engaged to work, to collect. Just like you are doing that.
Ram Jethmalani: Your movement does allow also householders and professional men like us to be a part of the movement without having to...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very much so. Actually, we would look very much eagerly forward to having persons like yourself taking great part in our movement. It is with great difficulty that someone like Girirāja dāsa has to go to the court, because we have no one like you.
Ram Jethmalani: Oh, my great pleasure. Anytime you just tell me in the court when there is a problem. I'll be there in two minutes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi) He is a lawyer, court case.
Ram Jethmalani: No, but can one be in the movement without having to adopt the stricter forms of all this, even at home?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...been seeing this one person there by the name of Bhagavan Shringari Das, Bhagavan Shringari. He's the pūjārī of Lord Jagannātha. So he's claiming that when anyone goes to a holy place like Jagannātha Purī that they have to get initiated by a tīrtha-guru. So these foolish disciples, they're going and they're accepting initiation from him, and he gives them some mantra, and then he... Naturally there's an exchange of money. They have to promise to send money regularly for Lord... He says it's for Lord Jagannātha. Obviously Lord Jagannātha will never see the money. He also gets them to write a letter. The letter reads something like that "I came to India blind, but now Bhagavan Shringari Das has opened my eyes." Doesn't even mention Your Divine Grace. And this boy, he was telling me this... When he asked about the holy places... This devotee, who..., he's doing a little assistance for me, he refused to have anything..., take any initiation 'cause he said that he could understand that something was wrong. He asked him, "What about Māyāpur?" He said, "Oh, Māyāpur is nothing. That is not the dhāma." Then he said, "Dhāma means...," and he named the four dhāmas. So in this way some of the devotees are... Apparently they're even going back to America and they're encouraging others to send money to this cheater. This man is a big cheater. (name withheld), she took this initiation, and some other people, he mentioned... When he was there, there were already four devotees there, some householder devotee from Los Angeles, (name withheld)... He sells them things like the flag from the top of the temple for a hundred rupees. You know, different types of thing he sells them. So I said, "So why didn't you ask him, 'Now that we're your disciple and you're our guru, now take us into the temple'? "
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, even if you don't give a salary, if you give an apartment and you give food and you give all these other things for someone to maintain his household life...
Prabhupāda: Because his service is essential.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But that has to be determined very strictly.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Whether his service is absolutely required? So you give him.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is the factor. That point must be clearly acknowledged.
Prabhupāda: Hm hm. So he's trying to practice... Because sevonmukhe, if he gives service, then gradually he'll renounce. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ (Brs. 1.2.234). God realization means service. The more you give service to the Lord, the more you become advanced in devotional... So one who is giving service, dedicated life, so maybe... But no salary. They may live in the temple, woman separate, man separate.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Does anyone have any questions they would like to ask Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Indian man (2): Can one be a householder, I mean, with his normal worldly life, and at the same time be a...
Prabhupāda: First of all, what do you mean by householder?
Indian man (2): I mean continue the normal, occupation of one's...
Prabhupāda: Say me. Explain what is householder.
Indian man (2): Looking after one's business, after one's...
Prabhupāda: So that is... Dog is also doing that business.
Prabhupāda: So that is... Dog is also doing that business.
Indian man (2): Pardon?
Prabhupāda: Dog is also doing that. Is he householder? Taking care of children, the dog is also doing that. So is he householder? First of all, you do not know what is meant by householder. Taking care of children, that is done by the birds. In the nest the small kiddies are there, and they are bringing food and pushing in the mouth, (makes bird noise:) "Tee, tee, tee, tee, tee." Are they householder? And if you think they are householder, you are also householder like the dogs and birds. You do not know what is householder. Therefore you have to consult śāstra, who is a householder. Śāstra says, pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum: "You should not become a father and mother unless you take the responsibility for children that no more birth." Because this is the problem, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). If you are so able father and mother that you can stop this miserable condition of your children, then you become householder. That is householder.
Prabhupāda: Because this is the problem, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). If you are so able father and mother that you can stop this miserable condition of your children, then you become householder. That is householder. Otherwise what is the use of becoming a householder like dogs and cats? There is no use. There are so many cats and dogs. What is use of increasing? Now government is forcing: "Do not produce cats and dogs. Take these inhibitions(?)." Because the whole world is fed up with these cats and dogs householders. Real householder is, śāstra says, "Don't become a father, don't become a mother, if you cannot protect your children..." Samupeta-mṛtyum. And they are required. If you can do that, then you are welcome. You can produce hundreds of children. But you cannot protect yourself; how you'll be able to protect your children? All bogus. Householder is allowed, as brahmacārī-āśrama, gṛhastha-āśrama. It is not meant that...
Prabhupāda: Big, big personality were householder. Lord Rāmacandra was householder. Arjuna was householder. Prahlāda Mahārāja was a householder. Janaka Mahārāja was householder. But they were not cats and dogs. So be householder. You do the duty of real householder. Don't become cats and dogs. Then where is human civili...? What is the distinct between cats and dogs and human civilization if you do the same thing? Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. Then you are huma..., not even human being. What is the question of householder? Be householder as it is in the civilized codes, human history, they are... Otherwise refrain. Householder does not mean to satisfy, what is called, itching sensation of the genitals. That is not householder. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). To satisfy the itching sensation, that is not householder. Here is householder. Protect your children from death. Can you do that? That kind of householder, at least, the trees on the street, everywhere... There is no question of becoming householder. The whole Bhagavad-gītā... Arjuna, he was householder. He was politician. So he did not give up anything. Before his hearing Bhagavad-gītā he was the same, a large family, and he was fighting for some material interests.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Guṇārṇava: So they can mix with the gurukula?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Why not?
Yaśodānandana: What about householders and ladies?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Not at all.
Dr. Sharma: Here is a complete park. Say boys may play or suppose some function. Here complete and all, outside this...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where will the garden be?
Dr. Sharma: This side. The center will be a lawn. And then we'll have a garden this side. There must be very full of...
Prabhupāda: I think in Japan I have got. One European boy came. He came: "How you have got so much knowledge, sir?" His inquiry was that. In Dum Dum Airport some gentleman came, Indian. The thing is, knowledge was there. It was not presented. (pause) (aside:) He'll take one; you take. (break) Hm? Kṛṣṇa asked the gopīs that "You can take your cloth, one after another. You have done a great fault. Naked, you are taking your bath. So just offer to the deity namaskāra." (laughs) Chastised: "You are very naughty. Why you are doing like this? I tell you, this is for your good." So they did it. (pause) Gopījana-vallabha. (pause) Kṛṣṇa's naughty activities... In every neighboring house they would come, Mother Yaśodā, friends, and they'll repeat Kṛṣṇa's naughty activities, and Mother Yaśodā, stopping all household business, she would hear. She would hear again. This is kṛṣṇa-līlā. How ordinary person would understand? "What is this? Spiritual life? A child's naughty activities, and they are hearing, and this is spiritual?" But Kṛṣṇa has made easy salvation, that simply by hearing His naughty activities you'll be liberated. Who will understand this philosophy? Can you give me a little hot water with lemon?
Prabhupāda: ...Britishers. Otherwise, nonvegetarian in India means up to fish. (pause) In Gujarat still you'll find. One young girl... You see here that all young girls are carrying water, collecting. In the morning collecting water, cleansing the house, utensils, clothes, taking bath, then cooking, those girls. Their first business. Man's business is to earn money, go to the market, the necessities. Woman's business is take care of household affairs, children, and they have got engagement. And in the presence of father or elder brother or husband, a woman has to earn livelihood—that's a great insult.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Disgrace. That's disgraceful.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Upendra:
"The life span of such envious householders is passed at night either in sleeping or in sex indulgence, and in the daytime either in making money or in maintaining family members."
Prabhupāda: So this business...
Śatadhanya: They waste all the time.
Prabhupāda: They are being made from marble powder?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They're very strong. It says, "We have maintained, through your never-ending kindness, for two years or more financially in terms of our daily operational requirements and household support. Now I'm looking for ways of relieving Bhaktivedanta Book Trust of the burden at once. Deity making, the saṁsāra trailer, and other such enterprises will provide means for our maintenance and research expenditures..."
Prabhupāda: Oh, very good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...which in this project will inevitably increase constantly as we take on more and more ambitious undertakings."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Look at this Mr. Myer. He has to go flying down to Madras, close his account, do this, do this. How complicated life has become. And they were householders.
Prabhupāda: And they shifted very organizedly. The cows, tuck bag, then the guards with bows and arrows, then old men, women, children in carts.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were in carts.
Prabhupāda: Yes. By procession...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The early pioneers in America, they would also go in the wagons, covered wagons. Now I understand we have one wagon going in America. It's heading towards Washington under the banner of "Simple Living and High Thinking." That will be unique.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If they live in the temple, then there's the problem of... You know.
Prabhupāda: No. Temple, he can take one room, pay for it. He wants to pay. That is also payment. And further, if he can pay, that's all right.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In America, supposing a householder family pays for a room in our temple building. So they can have their sex life and family life?
Prabhupāda: If they can pay for prasādam also, it is nice. Sex... Husband-wife living, there must be sex, so who can...?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So how can that be in the same building as the brahmacārī ashram?
Prabhupāda: No, no, no, so many other gṛhastha tenants.
Prabhupāda: Why alone? Can live with others.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Other householders there also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Many householders can live there together.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. There's room on the floor below...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...his apartment for two other families. I don't know what...
Prabhupāda: That can be arranged. That is not...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think he feels it's safe enough.
Prabhupāda: Hm? So my fear is that after training our men so much, if he's lost, that's a great loss. Then future of society becomes very hopeless.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the principle is that if a householder has outside employment and can pay, then he can live inside our temple buildings.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. What is the wrong?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At least for five or six years now the system has been that no man and woman should live together in the same building as where the Deity is.
Prabhupāda: That is the system. Temple is meant for retired men. Brahmacārī, sannyāsī, vānaprastha.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It advertises all your books. Plus, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I had signed a contract with the biggest mail-order house in India, called Mail Order Sales. And this week their full-page advertisement on the Bhagavad-gītā is reaching 25,000 households. Their ad wasn't ready, but they are sending it to me in few days. It's a very beautiful ad. They have a monthly newspaper called Mail Order News, and that they've given a whole page. But they pay for it. We give them a straight commission on sales. Just like in America you have Book of the Month Club and selling books by mail. This is very big. Plus we are now doing the Bhaktivedanta Encyclopedia of Vedic Knowledge. We are preparing a brochure just like this. This is a Brittanica Encyclopedia advertisement. So we're going to have your nineteen or twenty Bhāgavatams here. The artists are working on it and this is going to be sent to about thirty thousand households. These are just for households, not libraries or anyone, just as selling to businessmen and executives.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who's going to do this?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Mail Order Sales. It's a company that specializes in mail orders. This will be very good.
Prabhupāda: Everything you do, it is... Now, utilize. So one book has come only.
Dhanañjaya: Yes, we can silver...
Prabhupāda: They have done nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's very small.
Dhanañjaya: But this is also meant for householders.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's nice for householders, but for big temples it's very...
Dhanañjaya: For small temples.
Prabhupāda: No...
Dhanañjaya: We'd also like to prepare one of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It looks good.
Prabhupāda: But looks good, that's good. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Where is the scarcity of money? (laughter)
Śrutakīrti: Also it is a very excellent business for householders in our movement.
Prabhupāda: You American boys, you know how to earn money. Now you have learned how to spend it for Kṛṣṇa. It is wonderful.
Śrutakīrti: It is very nice, because when you burn the candle it only burns on the inside, so you can burn the candle and still keep this attractive...
Prabhupāda: Oh. Outer cover.
Śrutakīrti: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you keep that permanently.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Girirāja: "My dear Lord Kṛṣṇa, You are known as Yogeśvara, the master of all mystic powers. So it is very easy for You to perform the impossible, as You have done many times in the past. By Your merciful glance You restored life to the boys and cows who had died by drinking the water of the Yamunā River which was poisoned by Kāliya. And You swallowed the devastating forest fire to protect the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana. In the rāsa dance You expanded Yourself to be simultaneously present by the side of each gopī. And as guru-dakṣiṇā, You recovered the dead son of Your teacher. When the hunchback maidservant of Kaṁsa smeared You with sandalwood pulp, You made her straight and beautiful. And as a householder in Dvārakā, You expanded Yourself into sixteen thousand Kṛṣṇas and simultaneously satisfied all of Your sixteen thousand wives.
| Page Title: | Householder (Conv. 1976 - 1977) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 26 of Jun, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=71, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 71 |