There have always existed two types of men, the devotee and the demon. Long ago there lived a big demon named Rāvaṇa, who disguised himself as a sannyāsī, a renounced mendicant, and tried to steal the wife of the Supreme Lord, Rāmacandra. She was the goddess of fortune, Sītā-devī. In this way the demon brought about his own destruction. But now, in modern times, Rāvaṇa's dynasty has multiplied into millions. This has given rise to many different opinions, which have made the demons inimical toward one another. Thus they are all competing tooth and nail, trying to kidnap the goddess of fortune, Sītā-devī. Each one is thinking, "I am the most cunning, and so I will enjoy Sītā-devī all by myself." But like Rāvaṇa, all these demons, along with their entire families, are being destroyed. So many powerful leaders like Hitler have come, but enamoured by the illusion of enjoying and exploiting the Supreme Lord's energy and consort—Sītā-devī, the goddess of fortune—all of them have been thwarted and crushed in the past, are being thwarted and crushed in the present, and will be thwarted and crushed in the future. The root cause of the aforementioned lament—"In the dispensation of providence, mankind cannot have any rest"—is this demoniac mentality of exploiting and enjoying the Lord's divine energy.
Hitler
Bhagavad-gita As It Is
BG Chapters 13 - 18
Those who are situated in goodness generally worship the demigods. The demigods include Brahmā, Śiva and others such as Indra, Candra and the sun-god. There are various demigods. Those in goodness worship a particular demigod for a particular purpose. Similarly, those who are in the mode of passion worship the demons. We recall that during the Second World War a man in Calcutta worshiped Hitler because thanks to that war he had amassed a large amount of wealth by dealing in the black market. Similarly, those in the modes of passion and ignorance generally select a powerful man to be God. They think that anyone can be worshiped as God and that the same results will be obtained.
Srimad-Bhagavatam
SB Canto 4
In the Vedic hymns it is stated that in the beginning there is only Viṣṇu and that He alone remains at the end. An example can help us to understand the inconceivable potency of the Supreme Lord. In the recent history of warfare the Supreme Personality of Godhead created a Hitler and, before that, a Napoleon Bonaparte, and they each killed many living entities in war. But in the end Bonaparte and Hitler were also killed. People are still very much interested in writing and reading books about Hitler and Bonaparte and how they killed so many people in war. Year after year many books are published for public reading regarding Hitler's killing thousands of Jews in confinement. But no one is researching who killed Hitler and who created such a gigantic killer of human beings. The devotees of the Lord are not much interested in the study of the flickering history of the world. They are interested only in Him who is the original creator, maintainer and annihilator. That is the purpose of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
SB Canto 7
Within this material world, one should understand by practical experience the value of material opulence, longevity and influence. We have actual experience that even on this planet there have been many great politicians and military commanders like Napoleon, Hitler, Shubhash Chandra Bose and Gandhi, but as soon as their lives were finished, their popularity, influence and everything else were finished also. Prahlāda Mahārāja formerly gathered the same experience by seeing the activities of Hiraṇyakaśipu, his great father. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja did not give any importance to anything in this material world. No one can maintain his body or material achievements forever. A Vaiṣṇava can understand that nothing within this material world, not even that which is powerful, opulent or influential, can endure. At any time such things may be vanquished. And who can vanquish them? The Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore one should conclusively understand that no one is greater than the Supreme Great. Since the Supreme Great demands, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), every intelligent man must agree to this proposal. One must surrender unto the Lord to be saved from the wheel of repeated birth, death, old age and disease.
Other Books by Srila Prabhupada
Renunciation Through Wisdom
Message of Godhead
Real peace and happiness can never come about through such advanced materialistic knowledge, deluded as it must be by the illusory modes of nature with a view to playing up this "unreal reality." Rather, as Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the Personality of Godhead, confirms in the Bhagavad-gītā, only those who cultivate transcendental knowledge in relation to the eternal spirit soul and without being disturbed by temporary happiness and distress will be able to escape the cruel hands of birth, death, old age, and disease and will be truly happy by gaining eternal, spiritual life.
We therefore suggest that all those who have tried their utmost to do good for others but have failed despite all honest endeavors should approach Śrī Kṛṣṇa or His bona fide servitors, following the footsteps of Marshal Arjuna. One should try to do good for others, but only after knowing perfectly how to do good for others. Otherwise, if one embraces others in a false sense of altruism, one can get only a temporary benefit for himself in the shape of some profit, adoration, or distinction.
A Hitler, a Mussolini, or any other leader of that materialistic persuasion may offer his followers the mental concoction of doing good together in violent or nonviolent programs, and by such acts of so-called benevolence the leader may get recognition from his followers for some time. But the followers for whom this kind of leader has endeavored to do good will never get any lasting benefit out of such temporarily beneficial work. A void will be felt with the progress of all such benevolent activities. In fact, the followers will be put into more and more distressed conditions by following the path chalked out by this kind of so-called leader. If a blind man pretends to help another blind man cross a road, then both the blind leader and the blind follower shall fall into the further darkness of some unseen ditch. Everyone who is devoid of transcendental knowledge is just like a blind man; such a blind man must first eradicate his blindness before he can attempt to lead others to light.
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
There is a proverb in Bengal, khābo ki khābo nā yadi khāo tu pauṣe. "When you are perplexed, Whether I shall eat or not eat,' better not eat." Sometimes we come to this point, "I am not very hungry, whether I shall eat or not eat?" The best course is not eat, not that you eat. But if you eat, then you can eat in the month of December, Pauṣa. Why? It is... In Bengal... Bengal is tropical climate, but when it is winter season, it is advised that "If you eat it is not so harmful because it will be digested." The night is very long, or the cold season, the digestive power, is nice. So when we are confused, "to do or not to do," jābo ki jābo nā yadi jāo tu śauce: "When you think, 'Whether I shall go or not?' better don't go. But when it is a question of answering the call of nature, you must go." Jābo ki jābo nā yadi jāu tu śauce, khābo ki khābo nā yadi khāo tu pauṣe. These are very common sense. Similarly, Arjuna is now perplexed, "Whether I shall fight or not fight?" That is also everywhere. When there is declaration of war between the modern politicians, they consider... Just like in the last Second World War, when Hitler was preparing for war... Everyone knew that Hitler was going to retaliate because in the first war they became defeated. So Hitler was again preparing. One, my God-brother, German, he came in 1933 in India. So at that time he informed that "There must be war. Hitler is preparing heavy preparations. War must be there." So at that time, I think, in your country the Prime Minister was Mr. Chamberlain. And he went to see Hitler to stop the war. But he would not. So similarly, in this fight, to the last point, Kṛṣṇa tried to avoid the war. He proposed to Duryodhana that "They are kṣatriyas, your cousin-brothers. You have usurped their kingdom. Never mind, you have taken some way or other. But they are kṣatriyas. They must have some means of livelihood. So give them, five brothers, five villages. Out of the whole world empire, you give them five villages." So he... "No, I am not going to part with even an inch of land without fight." Therefore, under such condition, the fight must be there.
Whenever you will see God... That is the... This is the sign of God. You'll find Him just like a youth, a new youth. Youthfulness means, say, sixteen to twenty-four years. So nava-yauvanaṁ ca. That is the sign of God. So He was so beautiful that when He was a boy of fifteen years old His, the whole, I mean, of His, of the same age girls, girls of His age, they were after Him. He was so beautiful. So in beauty He was superexcellent. In wealth He was superexcellent. In strength He was superexcellent. And in knowledge...
Now, here is a book, Bhagavad-gītā. Now, apart from other books, other knowledge which He imparted to other..., now, here is a book which was imparted to Arjuna. Now, it is so, the depth of knowledge..., that people are still considering, great, great scholars. We are not reading, but Dr. Radhakrishnan, one of the greatest scholars of the world—now he is the president of India—he is discussing. Professor Einstein, he was living here in America. He was a German Jew, and I think he was living in America. He was a great student of this Bhagavad-gītā. Hitler. Hitler was a great student of Bhagavad-gītā. And there were many scholars still reading Bhagavad-gītā, trying to understand. Just see what best depth of knowledge He has given. It is made by Kṛṣṇa. So in knowledge, in wealth, in strength, in beauty, and in everything He was opulent. Therefore He is Bhagavān. You cannot accept any ordinary man as Bhagavān. So therefore Bhagavān.
Indian (2): Praṇāmas, Swamiji.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Indian (2): Shri Gandhiji was also great admirer of the Gītā and a great scholar and a great..., made commentary also. But he at the time of the great war asked the great powers to let Hitler come in and not fight him at all. But where have you... He said that Hitler change of heart that would be effective and not that punishment. That means punishment is a fault, and I would like your enlightenment on this paradox.
Prabhupāda: The punishment... Kṛṣṇa does not personally punish. He has got many agents. Just like in the government, the president does not punish directly, but there are many departments. Similarly, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (CC Madhya 13.65, purport). His potencies are manyfold. One of the potency is this material nature. It is called māyā. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is very difficult to surpass the jurisdiction of māyā, duratyayā. But punishment will not be excused. Ignorance of law is no excuse. Similarly, this māyā, this material nature, is very, very strong. If you eat little more... Your nature is to eat, say, two ounce. If you eat three ounce immediately you'll be punished. There will be indigestion. The nature is so strong. Therefore it is called daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā. So in this way you cannot surpass the stringent laws of māyā, but if you want to avoid punishment, then you take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te (BG 7.14). Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness is essential. If we become Kṛṣṇa conscious, if we follow the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, then there is no question of being harassed by the stringent laws of māyā. This is the version.
So to become dhīra means not to use this, I mean to say, very important, very useful body, human body, to pass as cats and dogs. That is very dangerous. It is a great loss. Prahlāda Mahārāja instructed this. Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. We have to (be) very, mean, intelligent to understand that "I have got this body. Must be after many, many births." That is the evolutionary theory. I can understand that this tree... That is also a living being, but it is standing there for thousands of years. Thousands of years, they are standing. So many Napoleons, so many Kaisers, so many Hitlers came and gone, but the tree is standing. That is a punishment. But that is also a living being. It is also growing. As your body is growing or changing, that body's also growing and changing, unless you pour water on the root of the tree, no eating, then it will die. Similarly, if you don't eat, you'll die. You'll die. There is no difference. It is the simply different methods of living. That's all. The cats and dogs living in a certain method. The human being is living in a certain method. The trees are living in a certain method. The fish in the waters, they are living in the certain method. But the eating, sleeping, mating, defending is there. Is there. So according to the different bodies, they're living differently.
Generally, in the material world, adānta-adānta means uncontrolled, go—go means senses. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Simply repeating, chewing the chewed. The whole history of the world, you just study, is a history of sense gratification. Just take, for example, some twenty years ago one Mr. Adolf Hitler came in the scene, and there was great upheaval as war in Europe and America. From 1933 to 1947 or something like that, the whole world was in trouble. But he is gone, finished. And what did he do? Sense gratification, that's all. He wanted that this way government should be, according to his own sense. Another person, just like Mr. Churchill or your President Roosevelt, they said "No. The sense gratification should not be like that. The sense gratification should be like this." (laughter) So it is the war of sense gratification, that's all. One leader is presenting a program of sense gratification, another leader is presenting another program of sense gratification, and there is clash. This is going on. This is the history of the world.
And another class, they are thinking "Oh, there are so much trouble simply for sense gratification. Let us control our senses." Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, just like Māyāvādī philosophers, Śaṅkarācārya. They say this world is useless. This world is useless. Only Brahman, the Supreme Brahman, impersonal Brahman, that is truth. That is also another sense gratification. That is bigger sense gratification. Why? These Māyāvādī philosophers, they want to merge into the existence of the Supreme One. That means by becoming Hitler, Churchill or Roosevelt, their senses were not very much satisfied. "Now," they say, "this world is false. Now let me become the Supreme." That is another sense gratification.
So this world, without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is simply sense gratification. That's all. One may present in one way, another may present in another way, but it is sense gratification. Therefore the so-called yogis, fifteen minutes meditation or, say, fifteen hours meditation or fifteen months meditation, but as soon as meditation finished—sense gratification. That's all.
Sudāmā: "The Lord of the living entities is the Supreme Personality of Godhead."
Prabhupāda: Yes, Lord of the living entities. Just like here we have got a leader, a society leader or a party leader or a club leader, there are leaders. Some are led by somebody, some are led by somebody. We don't wish to discuss. But there is a leader. Without leader, nobody goes to hell, neither to heaven. There must be one leader. The supreme leader is Kṛṣṇa. Leader of the leader, leader of the leader. There are various types of leaders. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām, eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). These are the wordings in the Vedas. So He is the supreme leader. We are following some leader. Some leader is following Stalin, somebody Hitler, some leader is following Gandhi, somebody's following somebody, somebody. There must be some leader. But why not the supreme leader, who will never misguide you? He will give you actual path of happiness. Then you will become happy.
Bhagavān means one who has got complete control over six things. He is Bhagavān. He is God. What are those six things? Now, aiśvaryasya samagrasya: "Complete riches," and vīryasya samagrasya. Vīrya means strength. Complete riches, complete strength, complete knowledge, complete beauty, complete renunciation and complete fame...
We are after some fame. I want to be famous, you want to be famous, but we are famous in a circle, in a circle, in a country, in a society. But nobody is famous like Kṛṣṇa. You see? Nobody is famous like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa approached, advented Himself on this earth five thousand years before, but just see how much famous He is still. Can you give any example in the history? So many Hitlers, so many Mussolinis, so many Gandhis born and went away. They were famous for several years only. That's all. Nobody can be famous like Kṛṣṇa. All over the world He is famous, and what to speak of India? Complete fame. Similarly, complete strength, complete riches, complete beauty, complete knowledge... Just see, Bhagavad-gītā. It was spoken by Kṛṣṇa. There is no parallel, and there is no competition of Bhagavad-gītā. It is such a knowledge. You see? Complete knowledge.
Jñānam, knowledge. Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna that "I am giving you perfect knowledge." This is our process. We receive knowledge from the perfect person. There is no use getting knowledge from imperfect person. That is useless waste of time. And who is perfect person? Who does not commit any mistake, who is never illusioned, whose senses are not imperfect, and who is not a cheater. These are the qualification. (aside:) The children... These are the symptoms of perfect person. First thing is he does not commit mistake. Throughout the whole world you study big, big men. They committed mistake. Hitler committed mistake. Gandhi committed mistake. Churchill committed mistake. Because "To err is human," however big you may be, you cannot avoid mistakes because you are not liberated. So these are the signs of becoming perfect man, that he does not commit mistake, neither he is illusioned. Illusion means to accept something as something. That is illusion. Just like we are accepting this body as myself. If you ask me, "What you are?" "I am Indian. I am brāhmaṇa. I am this. I am that." So what are these? These are all bodily concept of life. This is illusion.
The best form of human life, the Aryans... Aryans. Aryans means those who are advanced. So the Aryan family, the history of Aryan family... From Central Asia, Caucasian ranges, they divided, the Indo-Aryans, Indo-Europeans. This is the history of mankind. So the Europeans, they belong to the Indo-Europeans, and some of the Europeans, not the uncivilized, the civilized, they came from that side, eastern side, when there was a threatening by Paraśurāma to kill the kṣatriyas. So most of the kṣatriyas, they came to Europe, and some of them settled in the middle, the border of Europe and Asia, Turkey, Greece. There is a big history, Mahābhārata. Mahābhārata means the greater history of India. So on the whole, the conclusion is that the Aryans spread in Europe also, and the Americans, they also spread from Europe. So the intelligent class of human being, they belong to the Aryans, Aryan family. Just like Hitler claimed that he belonged to the Aryan family. Of course, they belonged to the Aryan families. So there is gradual process of evolution, and the human form of life is the greatest evolution. Here is a junction. Now you can go, elevate yourself to further, higher status of living condition. That is called devatā, or demigods. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14,18). If you develop the quality of goodness, then you are promoted to the higher planetary system.
Guest (1) (woman): Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were saying about misusing this human form of ours. Is there any gracious defense that makes a soul non-eternal? You were mentioning about Hitler. It seems that he has committed a lot of sins. Would you say that he would still have eternal life?
Prabhupāda: Hitler or anyone, if he does not take advantage of this human form of life for going back to home, back to Godhead, he'll be put into again in the cycle of birth, maybe different forms of body.
This is knowledge. This is called brahma-jñāna. If anyone understands the simple thing, that "I am not this body..." But education is given, "No, I am this body." This nationalism, this nationalism also the same mistake, but they are fighting so much. Great, great, big, big men. In this country, Napoleon fought. In Germany, Hitler fought. And so many others, in our country Gandhi fought. But he is in ignorance. All these big big leaders, they are ignorance, andha, blind. Blind. They do not know that he is not this body and neither this land belongs to him. But they fight. The whole history of the world means this mistaken idea. "I" and "mine."
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
Pradyumna: "In the lower stages of human civilization, there is always competition to lord it over the material nature..."
Prabhupāda: Hmm. That is going on. The great two wars began from Europe simply on this basis. The German and Englishmen. The Englishmen, by their colonization, they made the whole world red in the map. Africa and Asia, India and America, Canada. And the Germans thought, "So this shopkeepers' nation..." Hitler used to say "shopkeepers' nation." "How they have occupied the whole world, and we are so intelligent? We are manufacturing so many things. We have no market to sell." That is the cause of the two great wars. This is a fact. Anyone, any politician, any gentleman knows what was the cause. The cause was Germany is always envious of England. Why this enviousness? Because England wants to lord it over, send Lord Clive to India to exploit. And the German wants that "We have got so many things manufactured. We cannot sell." That is the cause of war: lord it over. Everyone is trying to lord it over. The whole economic situation. Everyone is trying to become "the lord of all I survey." Yes. "In the lower stage of human civilization, there is always competition to lord it over the material nature..." That is the lowest stage of human civilization. But that is passing on as the highest stage of... Anyone who has developed to how to exploit the resources of nature, that nation is called to be very highly civilized or advanced. But that is the lowest stage of civilization. Everyone is trying to make economic development by exploiting the world—digging the earth, the mines, the... This is lowest stage, just like animal civilization. Next.
So śrīmad-bhāgavate mahā-muni-kṛte. Śrīmad-Bhāgavata is not some materialistic philosopher's or writer's as you have got... They are called grāmya-vastavaḥ. Grāmya-vastavaḥ means ordinarily these affairs. A man is meeting woman, woman is meeting man—that story, all these novels and fiction and dramas. It is not like that. Therefore it is said mahā-muni-kṛte śrīmad-bhāgavate. It is not ordinary persons writing whimsical, some, manufacturing some story, narration and puzzling the brain. No. Śrīmad-bhāgavate mahā-muni-kṛte: it is beyond all defects of human life. When an ordinary person writes, he writes with defective instruments. First of all, any man within this world, however great he may be, he must commit mistake. That's a fact. There are many instances, simply for little mistake. Just like Hitler. Hitler planned so gorgeously winning over the world. A little mistake, as soon as his attention was diverted toward Russia, he was finished. The Britishers tried to divert his attention toward the Russia. Little mistake. Otherwise Hitler would have come out victorious. There are many instances, in political field, in sociological field. So however one man may be great, he must commit mistake. This is called conditional life. There is no man in this world who can say that "I never committed any mistake." Is there any man? No. That is not possible. And he must be illusioned. Illusioned.
Prasannātmā means joyful stage, no more anxiety. We are full of anxiety on account of our material conception of life, unnecessarily. So many leaders came and gone. So long they were living, they were always concerned. In our country... Just like Mahātmā Gandhi, he came, big leader. Or in other countries, Churchill came or Hitler came. So long they were living, they were always anxiety, full of anxiety, fighting with one another. Now they are not existing. What is the loss there? But unnecessarily they were busy, that "Without me, my country will be finished, and this will be vanquished." Unnecessarily.
So therefore we require to be brahma-bhūtaḥ, then prasannātmā. Then, because our only business is to see that "I am happy. I have no anxiety," that we are searching after, every one of us. So that anxietylessness is possible when we come to this stage:
- sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo
- yato bhaktir adhokṣaje
- ahaituky apratihatā
- yayātmā suprasīdati
- (SB 1.2.6)
If you want actually peace, then you must be engaged in the service of the Lord. And before being engaged in the service of the Lord you should be qualified, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54).
As by releasing nuclear weapon there is radiation, similarly, we have got description that when Aśvatthāmā released his brahmāstra, there was a big radiation, people were feeling very terrible heat. And then Kṛṣṇa informed that "This heat is due to the Aśvatthāmā's release of brahmāstra," and Arjuna was advised counteract it. Now they do not know how to counteract this nuclear weapon. Formerly they knew. I throw one kind of weapon, and if you are expert, you can counteract it. Now they have discovered the nuclear weapon, but they have not yet discovered the counteraction. Fight means I show some expert fighting craft or experiencing. The opposite party must also show something better than that. That was fighting. And in this way when one party fails, he's killed. And if he's killed then war stops. No more war. This was the system.
So Aśvatthāmā was thinking of this brahmāstra. Astraṁ brahma-śiro mene ātma-trāṇaṁ dvijātmajaḥ. Hopelessly. So far, of course, I know that this nuclear weapon was already discovered by the German people and Hitler, it is said that he did not use it. Because he knew it that "If I throw this nuclear weapon there will be devastation." So from this point it can be considered that he had some human consideration. So he's advertised very adversely, but if it is a true fact, then how he could have this human consideration that he did not throw the nuclear weapon? And this was taken by the Americans and it was thrown in Japan. That is the history so far we know. So anyway, as we have got experience, the nuclear weapon is very, very dangerous. Similarly the brahmāstra is also very, very dangerous. And another weapon, they knew this art, śabda-vedhī. Śabda-vedhī means if I throw some arrow, it will go to my enemy wherever he is. A little sound of the enemy will attract this weapon, and it is sure to kill my enemy. Śabda-vedhī. There are many instances in Rāmāyaṇa, Mahābhārata. Śabda-vedhī-vāk. So such warfare of mantra, very subtle. This, at the present moment this warfare is carried on gross weapons. But finer than that, there is mantra war. By mantras the warfare can go on. So this warfare is mantra.
So the asura is overpowered, but if the asura makes more attempt to save himself, then there are, only two hands are engaged of Durgā to kill the asura, one catching his hair and one the trident. Only two hands are engaged. But if he shows more power, then there are eight hands more, reserved with different types of weapons. So you cannot overcome the ruling, or the control, of the material nature. That is not possible. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So asura, to kill the asuras, however powerful they may be... We have seen. There were so many asuras in this world. There were Lenin, there were Stalin, there were Hitler, there were Hiraṇyakaśipu. So many. But they could not survive. It is not possible. They'll be finished. So asuras, to kill him... Paritrāṇāya sādhūn..., vināśāya...(BG 4.8) To kill the duṣkṛtām, these asuras, Kṛṣṇa does not require to come. He comes only to give protection and pleasure to the devotees. That is his aim.
Therefore Bhagavān, full, in every respect, any field of work: fighting, opulence, household life, renounced life also. If you study the life of Kṛṣṇa, you will find everything in complete. Beauty, knowledge. Now Kṛṣṇa gave us a little knowledge, which is known as Bhagavad-gītā, and five thousand years ago this knowledge was given, but is still going on, all over the world. In our movement we sell Bhagavad-gītā the most. Is it not? We sell our Bhagavad-gītā As It Is everywhere and in large number. Because it is full knowledge, not partial. Everything is complete. Can you show any book in the world which has so much sale and which is so much perfect? There is no book. And I am not..., because we are Kṛṣṇa devotees we are eulogizing like that, but any scholar, any philosopher, any scientist will say like that: "Oh, there is no comparison of this book." I do not know exactly, but one gentleman told me that Professor Einstein, he was also reading Bhagavad-gītā daily. Hitler was reading. Such, such big, big men. But I know many scholars, even Muhammadans, they also read Bhagavad-gītā.
Caitanya Mahāprabhu has preached, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa (CC Madhya 20.108-109). We living entities, we are eternally servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is our position. But if we deny this position, "Now why shall I become servant of Kṛṣṇa? I am independent," then suffering begins, immediate. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vañcha kare, as soon as you desire to enjoy independently, immediately—that means immediately he is captured by māyā.
- kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare
- pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare
It is very easy to understand.Just like if you don't care for the government laws, if you want to live independently, that means immediately you are in the clutches of the police force. You haven't got to create, it is already there. So our position is always dependent on God. We should understand this. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has a song,
- mānaso deho geho, yo kichu mora,
- arpilun tuyā pade nanda-kiśora
This mistake is going on, that I am independent, king, and my soldiers or my society, community, family or—so many we have manufactured—but
- dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣv
- ātma-sainyeṣv asatsv api
- teṣāṁ nidhanaṁ pramattaḥ
- paśyann api na paśyati
- (SB 2.1.4)
Just like a man fights, just like Hitler declared war, or so many wars are declared. This man is declaring, everyone is thinking, "I am independent." So, and we are thinking that we have got so many soldiers, so many atomic bombs, and so many aeroplanes, we shall come out victorious. Similarly, each and everyone of us, we are thinking, "I am independent, and my wife, my children, my society, they are my soldiers. If I am in danger, they will help me." This is going on. This is called māyā. Pramattaḥ teṣāṁ nidhanaṁ paśyann api na paśyati, because we have become mad after this so-called independence, independence of God, we are thinking these things will help us, will protect us, but that is māyā. Teṣāṁ nidhanam, everyone will be destroyed. Nobody will be able to give us protection. If real protection is wanted, he will have to take protection of Kṛṣṇa.
Human being means when he's civilized, cultured, then he's human being. If he's not civilized, if he's not cultured, simply having two hands-he's animal. So that culture begins, civilized, in the Aryan families. Therefore they are called Aryans, "advanced." Aryan means advanced. People want to group themselves in the Aryan family. Just like Hitler, he declared himself only, "The Germans are only Aryans, and Jews are not Aryans," like that. You can manufacture. But real Aryan means one who is advanced in spiritual consciousness. He is Aryan. Not a class of men. Aryan means he's advanced in spiritual consciousness. The Aryan civilization is so eulogized because they..., in the Aryan civilization there was Vedic culture. That is Aryan. Otherwise ahastāni sahastānām, and that is apadāni catuṣ-padām (SB 1.13.47). This is going on, struggle for existence. In the primitive age that human being, so-called human being, naked, in the jungle, they eating animals. The animals have no leg... The Darwin's theory is that there was no civilized man, but gradually it has developed. It is not very clearly explained; he does not know what is the evolution. Evolution means to become civilized. That is evolution. Or to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is evolution.
The king, the emperor, would conquer a country and levy tax. Must give at least token. Doesn't matter even one pound or one dollar per year, but he must pay something, token. That means he agrees to become subordinate. Just like according to rent act, a poor man must pay something. It may be... In our country it is so... So that the landlord has the claim. Without rent, after some years it becomes his property.
So this conquering of other countries was not like the Napoleon conqueror or Hitler conqueror. No. As it will be evident from the character of Mahārāja Parīkṣit, the idea was to keep the whole world Kṛṣṇa conscious. If certain countries, certain portion of the world, would not be Kṛṣṇa conscious, then this king would go and chastise them. Just like Kṛṣṇa used to kill the demons. There was one Pauṇḍraka. Even during Kṛṣṇa's time, he placed himself as Viṣṇu. He artificially made four hands. So he challenged Kṛṣṇa that "I am Viṣṇu." So Kṛṣṇa immediately cut his head. So any imposter, pretender, representing as the incarnation of God or something like that, in those days, the king would not tolerate; immediately would cut his head, what to speak of thieves and rogues. So king's going to other country, conquering, it did not mean that to acquire some possession, land possession. No, that was not the aim.
So this so-called scientific improvement, advancement in civilization, it is just like jumping like the dog. That's all. It has no value. Real value is to understand ātma-tattvam, "What I am? Why death is imposed upon me? I do not wish to die. Why old age is imposed upon me? I do not wish to become old man or old woman. I wish to remain a beautiful young..." "No, sir, that is not possible." Then where is your freedom? What for you are jumping so much? As soon as the master will call "Yes, sir. Bind me..."
So you are completely under the nature's control. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14).
- prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
- guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
- ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
- kartāham iti manyate
- (BG 3.27)
Prakṛteḥ, prakṛti, nature, is pulling by the ear, "Come here." "Yes, sir." "Come here." "Yes, sir." And he's freedom. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ. He is completely under the control of the modes of material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. This is called false egotism: "I am something." "I am Napoleon Bonaparte," "I am Mussolini," "I am Hitler." This is ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. Fool, rascal. They are thinking like that. "No freedom, sir. No freedom."
- prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
- guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
- ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
- kartāham iti manyate
- (BG 3.27)
Being puffed-up with false prestige, he's thinking, "I am something. I can do something, I am..." This is the disease.
Prabhupāda: The karmīs, they are working, accumulating bank balance, more, more, more, more, more, more. But forgetting the real mission of life. Therefore ass. Ass means fool. Whenever one man is called, "You are ass," that means he's a fool. So this human form of life, so valuable...
To realize Kṛṣṇa and go back to Him, that should be our main business. But these karmīs, they do not know what is the mission of this human form of life. They are busy working hard, day and night, for a morsel of grass. That's all. Yan maithunādi-gṛha... There are many other verses. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). So śāstra, intelligence, knowledge, means one should study everything very critically, "What is my position? What is my duty?" We should not be like the animals. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-khara. Now we have got our great personalities, leaders. They are praised, eulogized, our, these political leaders. "Our Hitler," "Our Gandhi," "Our Churchill," "Our Nixon." But śāstra says these leaders, those who are not spiritual leaders, those who cannot give our life, they are worshiped by these classes of animals, animals. These so-called leaders, politicians, they are eulogized very much by whom? By these class of men: dogs, camels, asses and...
What is the other one?
Devotees: Hogs.
Prabhupāda: Hog. So this is the verdict of... That means one who does not know whom to eulogize, whom to give honor, they give votes to these classes of men, without any knowledge of Kṛṣṇa. They are becoming the great philosophers, leaders, scientists. They have no knowledge of Kṛṣṇa, no knowledge of God. Still, they are leading the society. And who praise them? This class of men-dogs, hogs, camels, and asses. This is the verdict. Now you can challenge. You can talk, if it is right or wrong. This is the challenge given by Bhāgavatam, that "Persons who have no knowledge of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are praised by these dogs, hogs, camels, and asses." This is the challenge. Now how can you refute it? Can you refute it? This is a great challenge. We are not only... We are accepting some rascal as God, as incarnation of God. So who accept this so-called God? These classes of men. These classes of men: camel, hogs, dogs. So by the vote of camels, dogs, hogs, one cannot become God.
Durāśayā means the hope will never be fulfilled. That is called durāśayā. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. These external... Here is called ātma-māyayā. But there is another māyā. This māyā is external māyā, external energy. That is this material world. They are trying to be happy in this material world by adjusting material things. That is called durāśā. It will be, never be fulfilled.
Therefore in the history we see, there have been so many material leaders, but they died simply working hard. They could not make things very properly adjusted. There was Napoleon, there was Hitler, there was Gandhi, there was Nehru, there were so many leaders. But nobody could adjust. This is not possible. That is durāśā. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Because they do not know what is the ultimate goal of life. The ultimate goal of life is to understand Viṣṇu. And people are going on.
- na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ
- durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ
- andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās
- te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ
- (SB 7.5.31)
Andha. Andha means blind man. If one blind man is trying to lead other blind men, then what is the benefit? The leader is blind and the follower is blind. Then there will be no result. They do not know... Īśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. They are tied. They are tied hands and legs by īśa-tantra, by the regulative principles of the nature.
The māyā is so strong that even an old man advertising to be very pious man, he cannot give up politics. Because māyā is so strong, he's thinking, "If I leave political field, my countrymen will suffer, and so many disaster will happen." He's thinking like that.
But actually, things will go on. Many politicians came and gone. In your country there were many, many great politicians; they came and gone. But your country people are still living and they are going on. In Germany also, many Hitlers came and gone. Similarly, in India also many Gandhis came and gone. But things are going on. This is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:
- prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
- guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
- ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
- kartāham iti manyate
- (BG 3.27)
Everything is being done by the laws of nature. You cannot change it. There is a plan, God's plan. It will go on. You don't have to bother yourself, that without you, everything will be topsy-turvied. No. You cannot do anything. You are falsely thinking that your leadership is very much needed. No. I was thinking. When I was householder, several times there was indication given by my Guru Mahārāja that I should give up family life and become a sannyāsī and preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. In several way there was hints from my spiritual master, but still, I was not willing. I was thinking, "If I go away, then my family, my sons, my daughters, they will suffer." But actually, I have left my family connection in 1950. Actually '54, but introductory in '50. For the last twenty years. But they are living; I am living. They are not dying in my absence, and I am not suffering without being in my family. On the other hand, by Kṛṣṇa's grace, I have got better family members. I have got nice children in a foreign country. They are taking so much care of me, I could not expect such care from my own children.
You can go on giving service in this material world under so many designation, but you will never be happy, and the person to whom you are giving service, he will be not happy. This is material world. Try to understand.
Therefore one devotee, he says, kāmādīnāṁ katidhā kathidāḥ na pālitā durnideśās teṣāṁ mayi na karuṇā jātā na trapā nopaśāntiḥ, sāmprataṁ labdha-buddhis tvām āyātaḥ niyuṅkṣvātma-dāsye. This is called good sense. The purport of this verse is, "My dear Lord, I have served my senses in the form of lusty desires and anger and so many things, kāma, krodha, lobha, greediness, and..." My senses are, means, these things. "So I have served life-long, but neither they are satisfied, neither I am satisfied." Teṣām. "And they are not merciful. I have served them up to the age of eighty years, but still they want service from me. If I want to retire, they will not agree." If somebody says to his wife that "I have served so much in the family. Now let me go to the Kṛṣṇa conscious temple. I serve there," the wife will disagree, "No. What service you have done? You have got duty, duty, this duty, that duty."
So it will never end, even if you give lifelong service. Just like I have given the example: Gandhi gave lifelong service according to his own. Hitler gave lifelong service. Napoleon gave lifelong service. But their ultimate end was very, very regrettable. Nobody realized his service. He was punished. This is material world. We have to understand very clearly, and we have to take lesson from this verse that we may go on serving our lusty desire, greediness, anger, and so on, so on, but we will never come to the end and become happy.
The crowlike birds or crowlike men or karmīs, they're envious. You'll find. And even, without any offense... Just like dog: You pass on. Without any offense, he'll bark, "Ow, ow, ow, ow." (laughter) You have no offense. You have no offense, but it will try to pick up some quarrel with you. Sometime it will come to bite you unless you have got sufficient stick to show. (laughter) So, similar... There are dogs and cats and hogs. There are similar men also. They will simply pick up quarrel unnecessarily. Sometimes political leaders... Just like in Europe, Hitler unnecessarily picked up some war, and there was devastation all over the world. You see. There was no gain. The Germany become defeated and bifurcated. So this leader could not do anything good to the nation, but unnecessarily picked up some quarrel. So that is the cause of world trouble, the crowlike men, the doglike men, the hoglike men. So we have to create paramahaṁsas, good men. Then you can expect peace and prosperity. If you create cats and dogs, then how can you expect that there will be peace, there will be no war, there will be no disturbance? No. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vāstava-vastu vedyam atra (SB 1.1.2).
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to create a population of paramahaṁsa. That is our propaganda. We are not trying to create a class of men like crows or cats and dogs, but like the haṁsas. Of course, it is very difficult. When you try to create some M.A., pass boys and girls, their number will be very little. Because anything valuable, the customer is very little. If you want to sell jewel, in the jewelry shop hardly you will find one customer in a day, or two customer in a day. But in a beef shop or a meat shop you will find hundreds of... You see? So as soon as a thing is valuable, the number of customer will be less. So don't consider the quality of the good by estimation of the number of customers.
When Prahlāda Mahārāja was offered benediction by the Lord, "My dear Prahlāda, now whatever you want you can ask from Me," Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "My dear Lord, You are so opulent and I am so poor. And I am addicted to this material enjoyment. You are offering me, 'Whatever you want, you can take from Me.' " Just imagine. Suppose I am a poor man, and if a rich man says, "Swamijī, whatever millions of dollars you want, you can ask from me," then I shall put my claim, a big, very big amount: "Oh, here is a great opportunity." But Prahlāda Mahārāja refused. Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "My dear Lord, it is my duty to render service unto You not in exchange of something, gain. Oh, I am not a merchant that I am doing this." Vanig-vṛtti. So the Lord was very satisfied. That is the way of pure devotion. That was taught by Lord Caitanya. Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye: (CC Antya 20.29) (Śikṣāṣṭaka 4) "My dear Lord, I do not ask from You any amount of wealth," na dhanaṁ na janam, "neither any number of followers." Because every one of us, we want to be the richest man in the world, the greatest leader of the world, and to have a very beautiful wife... This is our heart's desire in the material world, to control over a vast mass of people—I want to be prime minister, president, or political leader, Hitler or Gandhi, like that—and to amass vast amount of wealth. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "No, no, no. I don't want all these things." This is prayer. Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye (CC Antya 20.29) (Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). "Then what for You have come to Me?" Mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi: "My dear Lord, I pray that birth after birth I may have unconditional, causeless devotion unto You." Not devotion for some purpose. That is not pure devotee. If you have got some purpose to... That is, of course, accepted in the Bhagavad-gītā, that if anyone goes to Lord to pray something with purpose, that is also good. But that is not pure. Pure devotee never asks anything from the Lord. That is pure devotion. So Prahlāda Mahārāja was a pure devotee.
Dayānanda reading Translation: "My dear Lord, people in general want to be elevated to the higher planetary system for long duration of life, opulence, enjoyment. I have seen all of them through the activities of my father. When my father was very angry and laughing sarcastically upon the demigods, immediately they fell down simply by seeing the movement of his eyebrows. Such my father is now finished within a moment."
Prabhupāda:
- dṛṣṭā mayā divi vibho 'khila-dhiṣṇya-pānām
- āyuḥ śriyo vibhava icchati yāñ jano 'yam
- ye 'smat pituḥ kupita-hāsa-vijṛmbhita-bhrū-
- visphūrjitena lulitāḥ sa tu te nirastaḥ
- (SB 7.9.23)
So this is experience, dṛṣṭā... Everyone has experience what is the situation of this material world. Every day we have seen big, big leaders, ministers. Just like in the history of the world there were so many big, big men—Hitler, Napoleon, this Churchill, Gandhi, Nehru. But all their powers, position, in one minute it becomes vanquished. There is no question... They are so proud, they do not believe in God, but when the death comes, they cannot argue anything. The death orders, "Immediately vacate"—finished. You have to vacate. At that time their power, opulence, position—nothing can help. So Kṛṣṇa says, therefore... The atheist class of men who do not believe in God, decry the authority of God, for them... Of course, everyone dies, but for them, mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham: (BG 10.34) Kṛṣṇa comes as death and takes away everything in their possession. But foolish persons, they do not see still. God says, Kṛṣṇa says, that "This death I am." Still they'll not. And it is a fact. When Kṛṣṇa comes as death, as Hiraṇyakaśipu, he was atheist, did not believe in God, but when God, Nṛsiṁhadeva came, then he was vanquished, everything, within a second. Nirastaḥ. Sa tu te nirastaḥ.
Festival Lectures
The next question should be: Why they are sticking to this materialistic way of life? That is answered by Prahlāda, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). "These persons, those who are so much materially attached, they do not know the ultimate goal of life is Viṣṇu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Viṣṇu." That is actually the ultimate goal of life. We are here in this material world, forgetting Kṛṣṇa, to enjoy, to lord it over the material nature. Everyone is trying to become the lord, master of material... That is struggle. Nobody can become lord or master of this material world. But that struggle to become master, they are taking it happiness. They are taking it happiness. That is the nature of persons who are influenced by the modes of passion. They'll work hard, and that will, they will take it is very good, pleasing. Because they do not know that the... Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are hoping against hope to become happy within this material world. That is the whole history. Take the history, any history, modern history. There are so many empires: the Roman Empire, the Carthaginian Empire, the Greek Empire, the British Empire recently, Hitler's Nazism, and so many. For some time they become very powerful. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu, he's now very powerful. He's thinking, "Nobody can..." Now today he'll be killed. Keśava-dhṛta narahari rūpa is coming. So this demonic civilization will never be successful. That's a fact. But they are so fool, they do not see even historical evidences. So many empires failed. The Roman Empire failed, the British Empire failed. Still, somebody is trying to create another empire, another, different empire. Just like your President Nixon, he's trying to influence all other nations under his control. Why? Of course, I should not speak all these things. There may be criticism. But that is the way, going on. That is the way. We can understand. We can understand politics, economics, everything, but we do not bother about. But our aim is that this way of life, to increase materially happiness, it will never be successful. That is our conclusion. We are not fools that we have given up everything for advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because we know that this, this way we shall never be happy. It is not possible.
Initiation Lectures
What is that māyā? Māyā means to plan how to become materially happy. This is māyā. All the people of the world, they are simply making plan how they will be happy within this material world. That's all. This is māyā. The history of the whole world studied, it is experience that the Roman Empire planned, the British Empire planned, the... So many empires, they flourish sometimes. All fail. The Britishers, they were, two hundred years ago, they were planning to rule over this vast land of America. George Washington declared independence; their plan failed. Similarly, in India they were planning to exploit. Now Gandhi's movement made it fail. So this is bigger plan. Similarly smaller plan also. There are many... Individually, we make so many plans that "I shall be happy in this way, in that way, in that way." So this plan-making business is māyā, because that will never be successful. Trace out the history of the whole world. Nobody has become happy. Hitler made a plan, so great a plan. You see? He was frustrated. So the sane man, intelligent man... Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says that a person who is actually intelligent, wise... How a man becomes wise? After being baffled or frustrated many, many times, he can understand this is not the process. And the Vedānta-sūtra also places the first, athāto brahma jijñāsā. When one is frustrated in all plan-making business, for him, the Vedānta-sūtra gives him the opportunity, "Now your all plans have failed. Come here." Athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now try to understand what is Brahman." This is the first aphorism of Vedānta-sūtra. Just try to understand Brahman. So in this way... This initiation also. Initiation means the first beginning, how to become purified. This is initiation. Because this devotional service means the process of purification.
General Lectures
Lord Kṛṣṇa, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Just like we have cited, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1): "The supreme controller, the Supreme Lord, is Kṛṣṇa." Now, we can see from His presentation of this Bhagavad-gītā how supreme He is. He spoke this truth five thousand years before, and continually, for five thousand years, all scholars are studying this scripture, and studying very devotedly to understand it. You know our present president in India, Dr. Radhakrishnan. He is a renowned scholar of the world, Dr. Radhakrishnan. When he came to your country, your president, late Mr. Kennedy, oh, he welcomed him as his own teacher, because when Mr. Kennedy was a student in the Oxford University, Dr. Radhakrishnan was a visiting professor. In the open meeting Mr. Kennedy admitted that "Now Dr. Radhakrishnan has come as the president, but he is always my teacher. He is still my teacher." It was very kind of him that he received him as a teacher, not as contemporary. So even that Dr. Radhakrishnan, he is also studying this Bhagavad-gītā very, I mean to say, profoundly. You know your Professor Einstein. Oh, he was a profound, I mean to say, student of this Bhagavad-gītā. Hitler was a great student of Bhagavad-gītā. So many, in all the countries. There are so many Muhammadans in India, oh, they are devout student of Bhagavad-gītā. I know one Dr. Inrai(?) of Allahabad University. Oh, he is so devoted to Lord Kṛṣṇa that on the birthday of Lord Kṛṣṇa he must write one nice article and publish in the paper. So this instruction, that mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ... (CC Madhya 17.186). We cannot have the knowledge of the Absolute Truth simply by argument or simply by philosophy or simply by big brain or speaking power. No, no. All these things will not do. Simply we have to follow the great authority.
As soon as one comes to the stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he'll be satisfied. And unless he comes to that stage, he'll always be disturbed, full of anxieties. Therefore our prayer should be how we shall be twenty-four hours engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Bhavantam evānucaran nirantaraḥ praśānta-niḥśeṣa. I'm just trying to explain the word praśānta, pacifism, how one can be pacified, fully satisfied. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja, a boy. He wanted the kingdom of his father and he underwent severe penances to see God, Nārāyaṇa, so that he may ask His benediction to be, I mean to say, seated on the throne of his father. That was his desire. He went to forest to undertake severe penances to see Nārāyaṇa so that he can ask from Him the benediction that he should have..., seated on the throne of his father. Because by the intrigue of his stepmother, he was rejected by his father. He wanted... That material desire we, every one of us in conditioned state, we want. Sometimes we compete. We become very much obstinate, that "I must have this," and we work very hard. Just like in Europe, that Hitler, he wanted supremacy over Europe, and he fought very valiantly. But at the end he became vanquished. Similarly, in the material world we have got so many desires and we want to fulfill it—and for which we work very hard. But at the end it becomes frustrated. That is the nature of the material world. You cannot have anything here permanent, however hard you work... You may achieve that. Not only in this material world. Even you achieve the liberation, perfectional stage, as the impersonal philosophers want. They want nirvāṇa.
When we produce unwanted children, the whole world becomes just like hell. It is going to happen like that at the present moment. The sex life is not denied. The point is discussed because it was raised. Sex life is not denied, but in a regulated form so that you can get nice population, you can live very happily. Not that you produce unwanted children and they turn out rogues, thieves and drunkards, like that. That is not allowed. You must produce nice children. For that purpose, sex life is allowed. And especially in this age, at the present moment, if you can produce children to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, that will be a great service to the Lord. Because we want now Kṛṣṇa conscious population. Otherwise this world is going to hell. That's a fact. We are dwindling, liquidation. There were great empires like Roman empire, Greece empire, Carthaginian empire and, later on, Moghul empires, British empire. So many empires there were. There was Hitler. There was Mussolini. There was Napoleon. So these powerful emperors or men came and gone. Their name is only there, and nothing is remaining.
So I request all you ladies and gentlemen to take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not a sentimental movement. It is a very authorized, scientific movement. You are all educated, advanced ladies and gentlemen. I'll request you to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The American boys, it is already we are combining East and West socially, politically, religiously, philosophically, economically, everything. There is solution. But if you take it seriously. If you think this is a movement, sentimental move... It is not sentimental movement. It is a most scientific movement. Any scientist come to me. I can convince him that it is a scientific movement. I asked similarly to Professor Kotovsky in Moscow that "My dear Professor, what is the difference between your movement, communist movement, and my movement? You, you have selected Lenin as God. I have selected Kṛṣṇa as God. Where is the difference of principle? You cannot live without a leader or God. I cannot live without a leader or God. That's a fact. Then where is the difference? Now it is to be judged whether Lenin is good or Kṛṣṇa is good. That is another thing. But your position is that you have to accept one leader, either Lenin or Jawaharlal Nehru or Hitler or this or Lord (?) Churchill. You have to accept. You cannot work independently. Therefore you have got so many parties. So here is also one party, Kṛṣṇa party. So where is the difference in philosophy? There is no difference in philosophy. Now let us study whether Kṛṣṇa party is good or Lenin party is good. Then whole solution is there."
Philosophy Discussions
Śyāmasundara: I guess that's a good place to stop for today. We'll try to finish Hegel tomorrow. (break) First we'll be discussing the ethical, social and political philosophy of Hegel. He believed that one's basic right was to be a person and respect others as persons.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So what is the philosophy of killing animals?
Śyāmasundara: Well, animals are considered as things and persons have the dominion over things.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals. Rascal philosophy. So the basic principle is this, one has right to be.
Śyāmasundara: One has the right to be a person.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: And respect others as persons.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So why do they not respect others' person. The animal is also person. What is this philosophy? That is the defect, that one is a rascal and he is taking the position of a philosopher. That is the defect. He's a rascal number one. He does not respect others' individuality, and he philosophizes that ones individuality should be observed.
Śyāmasundara: He says that there are three basic rights. The first is property rights; the second is the right of contract; the third right is the right of redress of wrongs; in the sense that crimes should be punished.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But it is not crime to kill an animal? The animal has no right to live independently?
Śyāmasundara: They say that the standard of what is right is the universal or the rational will...
Prabhupāda: Is that rational, that another living entity like me should be killed for my benefit, for satisfying my tongue?
Śyāmasundara: Their idea is that the animal is not in the same category as myself because it has no...
Prabhupāda: So that's alright; then might is right? Hitler is right? When Hitler, Hitler kills the Jews, he's right? He thinks that they are not in my category.
Śyāmasundara: The animal cannot understand philosophy.
Prabhupāda: What does he understand of philosophy? He is mad; he is less than an animal. He does not understand philosophy. He does not know that the animal has also a soul, the animal has also life. Then he should be killed first.
Śyāmasundara: He said that one standard whether something is right or wrong is that if it is self-contradictory, if somebody's action is self-contradictory.
Prabhupāda: He is actually self-contradictory. He is going to give right to others that he does not want to give the same right to the animals. That is self-contradictory.
Śyāmasundara: He uses the example of someone who doesn't want anyone to steal something from him but he steals something from others.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: And that is self-contradictory.
Prabhupāda: Yes, self-contradictory action is here, that I don't want to be killed but I kill another animal. This is self-contradictory. Supporting by some nonsense philosophy. I don't want to be killed but I kill other, this is self-contradictory.
Śyāmasundara: He also agrees that the monarchy, constitutional monarchy is recommended to head the state.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: And that he fulfills the universal will, he's simply the executor of the world's spirit.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice. That's nice. That is the system, Vedic system. A king must educate.
Śyāmasundara: But because he was so vague, this left room for someone like Hitler to come in and use this philosophy...
Prabhupāda: Well, Hitler came not as a king, he came as a usurper. He's not king. That is going on that any rascal, somehow or other he gets power, he becomes the head. But he has no training how to become actually the protector of the citizens. Therefore after the whole world is in trouble. He whimsically declares war and involve all the citizens, implicate. Therefore this support to monarchy is better in this sense that a person, by saint to saint, or by disciplic succession, or hereditary succession, he can be trained and if one man is trained nicely, he can govern over hundreds and thousands inhabitants(?) very nicely.
Śyāmasundara: His idea is that our everyday life, everything is a state of war and that this is a purifying, this conflict is purifying, that it has an ethical element and he makes the statement, "By this war, ethical health in the nation is preserved and their finite aims uprooted. War protects the people from the corruption which an everlasting peace would bring upon it. He says that to be in a state of peace is corrupt, and when there's always a war that it purifies the country, makes it more ethical, moral.
Prabhupāda: Then he wants continuous war?
Śyāmasundara: Something like that; he glorifies war, says that it makes a nation healthy to have war.
Prabhupāda: Then Hitler was first-class man by his standard.
Śyāmasundara: He says that progress only comes through conflict.
Prabhupāda: That means, according to his philosophy, people should always engage themselves in war, because they will be progressing?
Śyāmasundara: He says that it makes for progress to be in conflict. Competition, conflict, this creates progress.
Prabhupāda: Competition, that is another thing. But if you say that war settles up morality, ethical law, then... Without any aim. We say yes, war may be there or must be there, but the party who has got Kṛṣṇa's support, they are victorious, they are right party. This is our philosophy. We don't say that war should be stopped, war must be there, because this world is material world, there must be war, opposite elements. Now, the party who has got Kṛṣṇa's support, that party... That is the battlefield of Kurukṣetra. We don't say stop war, but we say if you fight, fight on behalf of Kṛṣṇa.
Śyāmasundara: Well, his idea is that you choose one fact and stick to it, whether..., no matter what it is, but that it must be..., your decisions must be free, full of passion, tension and integrity.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about someone like Hitler, who chose...
Śyāmasundara: Just like, just like Hitler, they might say, or actually the whole hippie philosophy comes from these men, these existentialists. It's not... It doesn't matter what you do, it's that you do it with conviction, determination, passion, freedom.
Prabhupāda: However foolish it may be. That is nice. (laughter) However foolish it may be, you go on.
Śyāmasundara: They would admire Hitler because at least he stuck to his principles.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They would admire Hitler.
Prabhupāda: Ah?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They would admire Hitler for sticking to his principles and acting upon them.
Prabhupāda: So what happened? Hitler became vanquished. That's all.
Devotee: Now they admire the Hell's Angels.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wouldn't you say that pretty much, that this philosophy is guiding a lot of the figures, the youth...?
Śyāmasundara: This is the most prevalent philosophy today, guiding people. It says that because God is dead, that we don't know where we came from, all we know is that we're here existing, the only way we can genuinely know ourself and exist authentically...
Prabhupāda: But our point is that we do not know genuinely. What we know, that is foolishness, that is asses' knowledge. Just like ass knows that "I am this body. I am the servant of this washerman." So this knowledge, like this. So he has made the decision. The ass has made this decision that "I shall take a morsel of grass and whole day I shall carry tons of cloth of this washerman." He has made this decision, that's all. Then is it that the decision is very nice? This is asses' decision, that's all.
Śyāmasundara: He points out that whenever we gratify our desires, that is so-called happiness, and whenever our desires are frustrated, that is suffering. But our desires are continuously frustrated, they are never satisfied. So he said that we are always suffering, and that the more intelligent a person is, the more he suffers.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Or by suffering, one's intelligence becomes manifested.
Śyāmasundara: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: Suffering sharpens the intelligence?
Prabhupāda: Yes, adverse..., blessings of adversity. Just like a businessman, one, he loses some money in some attempt, he becomes more intelligent, that "This account, business, should not be done."
Śyāmasundara: I think yesterday Hegel described it in terms of conflict, that through conflict progress comes out.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So here is a perpetual conflict with māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). This is a fight against, māyā is putting impediments, what I think it is right, māyā is breaking it.
Śyāmasundara: That's what he sees in it, the irrational.
Prabhupāda: Hitler's plan, Nazism, in so many ways, māyā has broke it into pieces. The Britishers, they also found the British empire, and māyā broke it. Roman empire... So, this frustration. But we are so fooled that in spite of repeated frustration, we are still trying to do the same thing. That is explained in the Bhāgavata, punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed. Chewing the chewed.
Prabhupāda: Śas. Śas means control. From śas-dhātu... Śiṣya means who voluntarily accepts the spiritual master's ruling. That is called śiṣya, disciple. From the same śas-dhātu. The spiritual master rules over him according to śāstra, and he accepts voluntarily. So conflict there is, but the mediator is śas.
Śyāmasundara: Controller.
Prabhupāda: Controller. Otherwise, there is no end of struggle if you don't accept an authorized mediator.
Śyāmasundara: This Mao Tse Tung...
Prabhupāda: And Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad..., yah śāstra-vidhim. Śāstra from that śas-dhātu. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya, giving it up, decides by his whims, na siddhim avāpnoti, they'll never get any siddhi, perfection. Therefore the śāstra should be mediator. But these people have no śāstras. They have got simply that barrel of gun. That's all. And that is very rude. And it will never come to perfection. For the temporary time, this party may win or that party may win. That will never... That is the position in the modern world. They have no authoritative śāstra. They manufacture their own way, and therefore there is no peace. First World War, Second World War, Third World War, and there cannot be any peace. As soon as you become strong, you declare war. Hitler thought, "I am now strong. Let me declare war." And another strong party, America came, Russia came. He was killed. So this is no conclusion. And even after Hitler's being killed, there is no conclusion. So this sort of conflict will never bring any peace. That will go on. That is struggle for existence. That is fighting like animals. Two dogs fighting, two hogs fighting, but that is not conclusion. That fighting will go on so long people will remain as dogs and hogs. That will go on. There is no question of peace.
Śyāmasundara: So real progress only comes through...
Prabhupāda: Authoritative decision. If we accept that, then that is real conclusion.
Prabhupāda: What is harmony, who will define? You say this is harmony, I say this is harmony. Therefore our philosophy is perfect. We are taking our duty from the Supreme. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), that is authority, only to surrender to Kṛṣṇa and abide by His order.
Śyāmasundara: Actually his philosophy has that loophole, that there's no
Prabhupāda: Every philosophy will be loophole. Everybody, that we shall find out, others cannot find out, what is that loophole.
Śyāmasundara: Because of this, the German state was able to step in and say, "Your duty is to follow us."
Prabhupāda: Who are you? The question is, "Who are you?"
Śyāmasundara: I am Hitler. I control the...
Prabhupāda: That is "Might is right." But Hitler was finished now. That anyone can say, the tiger can also say. "Might is right. I am powerful, you must (indistinct)."
Śyāmasundara: He says that philosophy must begin with the assumption that being is nothing but that duty is absolutely everything.
Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. Without being how you can do your duty?
Śyāmasundara: That being, being doesn't strive for what is, being is always striving for what ought to be. He always has a sense of duty. There should be something other than this that I must...
Prabhupāda: That Supreme Being, He can be (indistinct) up to. You, you cannot do such. You commit mistake. Therefore you do not know what is ought to be or not to be.
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: If you are religious, really, actually, a man of religiosity, then your money is not for sense gratification, as we are teaching our boys. They are working hard, they are getting money and they are spending for Kṛṣṇa. You see? Because they have understood that "My energy spent for Kṛṣṇa's cause is really utilized. And if I utilize my energy for sense gratification, then I am cats and dogs." So nārthasya. If you get money... You must get money. But it is not meant for sense gratification. "Then what is the, it is meant? We have got senses. We have to satisfy it." Yes. You have to satisfy it, but not for enjoyment. As far as you require it. You require fooding. Yes, for maintaining your body. Not for satisfying the tongue. "This, I want to eat this, I want to eat that, I want to eat that." No. Eat something. Just maintain your body. That's all. You sleep just to keep yourself fit to work. Not that sleeping for twelve hours, fourteen hours. No. Six, seven, utmost eight. That's all. Then eating, sleeping, defending. That's also required. Defend yourself. Not to encroach upon other's property. Just like Hitler sending soldiers in others' country. Why? You defend your own country. That's all right. You defend your home. That is not prohibited. The śāstra allows it. If somebody comes to encroach upon your property, you kill him immediately. That is said. But not kill unnecessarily. Just like Arjuna was taught, "Kill them. They have insulted your wife, they have encroached upon your property. They must be killed." That is allowed. But you don't be aggressive.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Journalist (1): What is your view of predominant Western civilization, Sir?
Prabhupāda: This predominance is dwindling. Where is your British Empire gone?
Journalist (1): Yes, quite. In fact, I was asking you about...
Prabhupāda: So this is artificial. There was Roman Empire, there was Mogul Empire, there was Carthagian Empire, there was Egyptian Empire and Greece and so on. They come and go. And there is a song by a Vaiṣṇava, kata caturānana, māri māri yāvatā.(?) There are so many Brahmās come also and they died. So this kind of empirical imperial, onslaught, they will come and stay for hundred or two hundred, and create some problems. There were...Just like there was Napoleon, there was this and that. So they will come and go. They will come and go, create some disturbances and go. Nobody will stay.
Journalist (1): Yes, but they don't seem to be improving society. When they do come and go, society doesn't seem to improve on the way.
Prabhupāda: If you cannot... if you remain demon then there is no question of improvement. You must be prepared to become... There are two classes of men. One is called god, or demigod; another is called demon. If you continue your demonic civilization, there is no question of happiness. That Hitler will come and this will come, that will... They will fight for some time, create some disturbance and go away. Another Hitler will come, another will come, another will come. This way.
Journalist (1): There will always be unhappiness amongst...
Prabhupāda: Our philosophy is you cannot be happy and prosperous in this demonic civilization.
Journalist (1): What about the Western religions like Christianity? That's been with us now for two thousand years and doesn't seem to have helped people to become particularly...
Prabhupāda: First of all, try to understand what is religion. Then you come to different types of religion. Religion means to understand God. Do you agree to that or not?
Journalist (1): So if Christian religion is teaching to understand God and to become obedient to God, then it is all right. If it is not teaching that then it is useless. Simply by stamping, "I am Christian," what do you gain by that?
Journalist (1): Well nothing, but that...
Prabhupāda: That is going on. Simply by stamping, "I am Hindu." "I am Muslim." "I am Christian." What is the gain?
Journalist (1): I've never been able to understand what the gain was either.
Prabhupāda: Now just try to understand Christian religion is good, provided the followers of the Christian actually follow. But they are not following. They are not following. They are simply artificially stamping, "I am Christian." In the Christian religion the first order is thou shall not kill." But the Christians are very expert in killing. So who is Christian? First of all let me see. Their First Commandment is, Lord Jesus Christ, that "Thou shall not kill." Now, every one is killing and still he is Christian. So this kind of Christian religion, or Hindu religion, what will be the benefit? If you don't follow, simply you stamp yourself that "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim..." That is going on. Nobody is Christian. Nobody is Hindu. Nobody is Muslim. Everyone is demon. Everyone is demon. That is our proposal. There is no Christian, there is no Hindu, there is no Muslim. That is our proposal.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Bob: It is so.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, the central stomach of the whole creation is God, or Kṛṣṇa. He's the enjoyer and He's the friend. He's maintaining everyone. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Therefore He's friend of everyone. And everywhere... He is maintaining means everywhere He's the proprietor. Just like a king can maintain the whole country, citizens, because he's the proprietor. Without being proprietor, how he can become everyone's friend? So these things have to be understood, that Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer, Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor, and Kṛṣṇa is friend. If you know these three things, then your knowledge is full. You do not require to understand anything more. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa by these three formulas, then your knowledge is complete. You don't require any more knowledge. But people will not agree. "Why Kṛṣṇa shall be proprietor? Hitler shall be proprietor. Yayha Khan should be proprietor. (laughter) Nixon shall be proprietor." That is going on. Therefore you are in trouble. But if you understand these three things only, then your knowledge is finished. But he'll not accept, he'll put forward so many impediments for understanding these three things. And that is the cause of our trouble.
Prabhupāda: Who is powerful? First of all let us see who is powerful.
Guest (2): Like United States, like Soviet Union. There is no other power in this world who can...
Prabhupāda: What do you mean by powerful? Then President Nixon is not afraid of anything, do you think?
Guest (2): He personally may not, may be afraid of something, but as a country, yes, it's very powerful. The whole world is afraid of them.
Prabhupāda: Well, President Nixon means this country. Why he went to China? Why he went to Russia? He's also afraid. If there is war there will be great calamity. So everyone is afraid. Everyone is under the control of the laws of nature. Everyone is hungry. So actually nobody's powerful in this material world. Even if he's powerful, it is for temporary. So many Hitlers, so many Napoleons, so many Churchills and others came and gone. There was powerful British Empire, powerful Roman Empire. So nobody's powerful. That's a wrong idea. In due course of time everything will be kicked out and finished. That is the law of nature.
Prabhupāda: World history is that history repeats itself. Everything comes into existence and then vanquished.
Guest (2): No, that's not what I mean. What I meant is that during the past two thousand years, whoever was very powerful was who was doing all these four things which we are, which you are suggesting that we should give up, you see.
Prabhupāda: But I say that my challenge is nobody's powerful. That is my challenge.
Guest (2): I mean...
Prabhupāda: You mean, but that is not the fact.
Guest (2): It's a fact, I mean, when they are powerful they rule the whole earth.
Prabhupāda: Where is your Hitler? Where is your Mussolini? Where is Napoleon?
Guest (2): Yes, Hitler is gone, but then we have that U.S., you see. If tomorrow U.S. goes, maybe there will be Soviet Union.
Prabhupāda: So that means everyone will come into power for some days; then it will be finished. That's all.
Guest (2): Yeah, but all the people who are getting into the power are people who are having these four vices, you know, and...
Prabhupāda: Therefore their power is finished. If you become sinful, then your power will not exist. Just like Rāvaṇa became powerful. He was so powerful that he dared to take away Sītā. But he also became vanquished. That is the history.
Prabhupāda: Just like your British Empire. You are British?
Ian Polsen: Yes.
Prabhupāda: British Empire, when there was British Empire, when they were getting money from all over the world, somehow or other they constructed so many big, big buildings. Now they are encouraging not so big, and now it is difficult to maintain it. We can see practically that you have got so nice buildings in London, but it is not being properly maintained. You haven't got sufficient means now to maintain them. Therefore it was..., British Empire was for the time being that prosperity. Now to keep up your prestige you are concerned in so many ways. So anything you do in this material world, that is temporary. So many-Roman Empire, Moghul Empire, British Empire, Hitler Empire—they came and gone. But my real problem is that I am eternal, so what I am doing for my eternal life? That is it. Temporarily I may become very rich or poor, it doesn't matter. But people are being taught, "Oh, you are poor? You become rich." That's all. Just like our India trying to imitate the Western world. But they do not see that in the Western world, in America, in Europe, why these young boys, they are rejecting this materialistic way of life? These boys have come to me because they have rejected, they don't like. Just like you are coming. Why you are surrendering to me? Because you are not satisfied. So our Indians, they do not see that "These men, they have already everything. Why they are rejecting?" All facility. Because this will not give us real happiness. We are spirit soul. We cannot be happy simply by material opulence. That is not possible. This is Vedic civilization: how people will be happy. They can be happy simply by self-realization, spiritual realization, because he is spirit. Material advancement will never make us happy, that's a fact. People have not become happy.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. These Britishers should have tried to assimilate the mass Indian culture with their help, administrative help, to broadcast this culture. No. They wanted to exploit India, and prove that "our ruling over India"... Because they have to show something to the outside world...
Brahmānanda: To justify that exploitation.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) They would not allow anyone to enter India to make trade. And that is the cause of two big world wars. This is a... Real cause is India. Because the Germans, they were very intelligent. They were intelligent nation. They wanted to trade with India. So Britishers will not allow them. Actually, Britishers were selling goods, purchasing from Germany and Japan, And when German would go to trade, they will enhance the custom duty very, very large amount. So that was the grudge of the German nation. Two times, they fought with that "Finish these Britishers-shop-keeper's nation." Yes. Hitler, Hitler was... Hitler or the Emperor Wilhelm, some of them, one of them, was calling the Britishers: "shop-keeper's nation."
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Shop-keeper's nail?
Prabhupāda: Shop-keeper's nation.
Brahmānanda: A nation of shop-keepers only.
Prabhupāda: That's right. Why the shop-keeper's nation should predominate all over the world? Kill them. That is their (indistinct). And actually it is the German people who killed Britishers, British lion. Apart, after the Second War...
Brahmānanda: British was finished.
Prabhupāda: Finished. Everyone in the United Nations pressed on them: "Why you are colonizing? Why you are occupying so much land? You give up." They were obliged. And there was great national movement of Gandhi. So all United Nations pressed that: "They're wanting to avoid you. Why you are, by force, staying there?" Still, they would not go. But when the soldiers began to join the national movement, they gave it up. "Now we cannot rule it." How very nasty! For their political power, they did so many heinous activities in India. That's a great history. For selling their cotton goods, India's weavers were cut this finger so that they cannot weave. This is there in the history.
Prabhupāda: The newspaper is glorification of this mundane world. You have to transfer your consciousness to understand the glorification of the Supreme. This is transcendental literature. So people have got the tendency to read but they're glorifying this rascal, mundane rascals. So that attitude should be transferred to understand the glorification of the Supreme Lord. That will be (indistinct). That we are presenting. We are presenting a literature exactly like the newspaper. They are glorifying some Nixon and Dixon. We are glorifying Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference. That is the difference. If Nixon has glorification, how much glorification is there in reserve of the Supreme Lord?
Dr. Hauser: But these Nixons and Dixons and Hitlers and... They have a rather...
Prabhupāda: That is illusion. We are attached to them.
Dr. Hauser: Yes, we are attached to them also because they have power over us. They can persecute us and they can... So it's very...
Prabhupāda: No, the greater power is Kṛṣṇa. If you take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, they cannot do anything. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja, he was a five years old boy. He took shelter of Kṛṣṇa and his father was a great demon, very powerful. He wanted to chastise his boy. He could not. This is the proof. So you take shelter. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pape... (BG 18.66). "I give you protection." So people have no faith although He's God. He thinks God is less powerful than Hitler. That is his nonsense. If he takes actually shelter of Kṛṣṇa, what this rascal, Hitler, can do? But he has no faith in God. He thinks Prabhu Hitler is greater than Lord. Prabhu Hitler. That is the difference between the crows and the swans. The crows think that we have got food in the garbage. And the swans think that we have got food in nice garden, in the clear water. And that is difference even in the birds kingdom.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So by lacking the understanding, they say that God is not merciful. The sufferers. People, who are suffering, but by not knowing that it is the mercy of the Lord, we complain that God is not merciful. But he is impartial.
Prabhupāda: No, God is merciful, but this fool does not know because he is ignorant. The same thing, mother says. One child, she is feeding very sumptuously. Other one, "Oh, don't take it. You go away." Does it mean the mother is merciful to one child and not to the other? The child does not know it, he cries, "Why shall I not...? Why I shall not eat? Why I shall not eat?" So these foolish questions will be stopped as soon as one becomes God conscious.
Karandhara: But unless they understand the difference between spirit and matter, they can't accept this logic.
Prabhupāda: Well, foolish men cannot accept any logic. Their logic is stick. "If you don't accept, I shall kick on your face. Accept it." That is the... That is wanted.
Karandhara: Like the example when Hitler killed the Jews. They will say, "Well, what should we do, just let Hitler go on killing the Jews because the Jews were sinful? Or should we try and stop Hitler?"
Prabhupāda: Well, Hitler was imperfect and everything was imperfect. That you cannot compare Hitler's action with God's action. God is all-perfect. That is first proposition. God is all-perfect.
Karandhara: That may be accepted in retrospection, but when it is happening, they don't accept that.
Prabhupāda: No, that is their ignorance, foolishness. Therefore a devotee will not say like that. A devotee will say, tat te 'nukampāṁ susamīkṣamāṇaḥ: (SB 10.14.8) "My dear Lord, I am suffering. It is due to my past mischievous activities, but you are rescuing me by giving little punishment. I would have been punished more, but you have given little punishment. Thank you very much." This is devotion.
Prajāpati: In this morning's class you were giving us the example of the takeover of the kingship, of the brāhmaṇas getting rid of a bad king. So many times in the literature you've given us, whether Kṛṣṇa killing His uncle King Kaṁsa, or the Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira and Arjuna in the Battle of Kurukṣetra killing the old political regime that are demoniac consciousness. Is this the recommended means in Vedic literature for getting rid of bad government, or are there other means that are described, that one can get rid of demoniac government and take over with godly rulers?
Prabhupāda: Well, in politics, unless there is violence, you cannot take. Simply by sweet words, not possible. That was the difference between our political leaders, Mahatma Gandhi and Subhash Chandra Bose. So Subhash Chandra Bose was of opinion that—and that is a fact—that "You are agitating non-violence. These people will never care for your non-violence. Unless there is violence, so these Britishers will never go away." So Gandhi would say, "No, I am not going to accept this violence theory. I shall continue." So for thirty years... He started from 1917 and up to '47, the Britishers did not go. But when Subhash Chandra Bose, he saw... He took the political power. He became the president. But Gandhi was angry. So because he was old leader, out of respect, he resigned the presidentship. Then he though that "So long this man will live, there will be no independence." So he went out of India and joined with Hitler, and Tojo, Japanese.
Nitāi: Who went out of India?
Prabhupāda: This Subhash Chandra Bose. And he organized the INA, Indian National Army. So when this Indian National Army was organized and the Britishers... They were great politicians. They saw, "Now the army is going to national movement. We cannot be." Then they left. Because it was not possible. They were maintaining British Empire with Indian money, Indian men. You see? They did not conquer by their British soldiers all round the Far East, Burma and the Mesopotamia, and the Egypt. That was Indian army, the Sikh soldiers and the Gurkha soldiers, and Indian money. On the pretext that "For Indian protection, we are maintaining this army." Actually, they were expanding their empire. Africa, Burma. And when they saw that "India is lost," voluntarily they liquidated all others. Went back... Back to home, back to Godhead. (devotees laugh) So in politics this is nonsense, non-violence. It is nonsense, cowardism. In politics in sweet words you cannot get. There must be fight, arms. That is army. "If you don't agree, then fist." That is politics. There must be violence. Otherwise you cannot control. When there is educated good men, then you can argue. But when people are ruffians, there is no question of good... Argumentum vaculum, I told you the other day... (break)
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: ...the modern politicians. Here at the present moment their philosophy is that one must be very cunning diplomat, then he's successful politician. This is their philosophy. The most crooked man, like Cāṇakya. But our philosophy is that the political head should be like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, Lord Rāmacandra, that is difference. Here Churchill or Hitler or similar man, crooked man... Without being crooked one cannot become politician. Lloyd George, the British Prime Minister, he said that "Consistency in politics is the qualification of an ass." Consistency. You must change. (break)
Mahāṁśa: You should never trust a politician, so if you cannot trust a politician, why we elect him as a leader, why should he be a leader?
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, "Do not trust" means you are also not trustworthy, nobody trusts you, and you should also not. That is their philosophy. All these big, big politicians, just like United Nations. The same philosophy is going on. Nobody trusts anyone, but they speak big, big...
Devotee (3): There has never been a movement like this which has given them factual knowledge of God. Therefore, they think it's sentiment, religion.
Prabhupāda: So we have to abide by their sentiment? Because they are rascals, we have to become rascal? Even if you take so-called responsibility, you will not be allowed to carry it out. The example I was giving., Napoleon, Hitler, and Gandhi, they took responsibility but they were driven away. What can you do? So what is the meaning of your responsibility? You will not be allowed to execute your responsibility. What remedy you have done that you will not be allowed, kicked out? Then what is your responsibility? Even if you are very nice gentleman, you have taken responsibility, but nature will not allow you to execute the responsibility. What is your answer to that? Big, big Napoleon, big, big Hitler, big, big Gandhi came and gone. Where is the responsibility executor? The Napoleon was given horse urine, you know, by the Britishers.
Devotee (2): To drink.
Prabhupāda: Yes, at the last stage. When he was asking for water, they have given horse urine. He died like that.
Paramahaṁsa: So we should be able to see the quality of man we are preaching to.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you have to make him intelligent. Everyone is fool, mūḍha. Everyone within this material world is supposed to be a fool. Because everyone is thinking, "I am this body." So he's fool. "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am German," "I am Frenchman," "I am this," "I am that." What is the difference? A cat is thinking, "I'm cat." A dog is thinking, "I am dog." So if somebody thinks that, in relationship with the body, "I am Frenchman," "I am Englishman," "I am...", then where is the difference between the cat and the dog? He's thinking himself as this body. Therefore everyone is thinking, at least in this modern world, the so-called nationalism, everyone is thinking, "I am Englishman," "I am Frenchman," "I am Indian," "I am this," "black," "white." So everyone is fool. Is it not? Yes. He's thinking in a way what he is not. Therefore he's a fool. All these big, big political leaders, Napoleon, Hitler, Churchill, and in Europe , they fought with this consciousness, "I am Englishman," "I am German," "I am Frenchman." That's all. Even the big, big leaders, they are fools. And what to speak of common men?
Prabhupāda: Just like Hitler, Napoleon. They thought like that. Yes. Then? Next verse?
Cāru: Aneka-citta-vibhrāntā moha-jāla samāvṛtāḥ...(BG 16.16)
Prabhupāda: Now where is Hitler? Where is Napoleon? Finished.
Prabhupāda: We have got to do so many things. We can utilize everything. So if they are not used for Kṛṣṇa's purpose they'll be used for committing disaster in the world. Just like the atomic bomb. They are meant for creating disaster, that's all. What else they can do? And now everyone is having atomic weapon, just like India has now got. That means they are preparing, by nature's course they are preparing for war, and "I put my atomic bomb on your head, and you put on my head. You die, I die, that's all." They simply die. Now what was the result of the disastrous war twice? The whole European nations ruined. They are not no more rich. I saw in Paris, in Germany. They are not as rich as the Americans. Because American inland, there was no such big war, so their opulence is existing, but on account of these two wars, British completely finished. Yes. British completely. It is now... Hitler wanted that "I shall again make these English people a fisherman's island. They have to take their business to fishing only." (laughter) That was Hitler's declaration.
Madhudviṣa: That has happened.
Prabhupāda: That has happened.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Ambassador: How did you feel about Gandhiji spiritually?
Prabhupāda: He was a good gentleman, that's all. He had no spiritual asset.
Ambassador: That's what I wondered. I never met him. I don't know. But he said himself, "I may be a saint among politicians, but I'm a politician among saints." (laughs)
Prabhupāda: He said or the governor said? Anyway, it is... Mr. Casey from Australia—he was governor of Bengal—he said, I think, that thing. His study was like that. He was a politician, that's all.
Ambassador: But God uses whatever material is there and He used him.
Prabhupāda: No, it was God's desire. You see? Without His desire, otherwise how such a vast British power could be driven away by the noncooperation movement? Of course, it was very nicely planned because the Britishers were ruling over India by the cooperation of the Indian.
Ambassador: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So when that cooperation was withdrawn, naturally they could not... They were trying to the last point, but when the Subhas Bose's organization, INA... You have studied that Indian history. Yes. INA. Indian National Army. So this National Army was formed by Subhas Candra Bose outside India with the cooperation of Hitler and Tojo. He's formed that, what is called, Indian government outside India, the INA, the soldiers... The INA soldiers means all the soldiers that were arrested in the battlefield, they were given to Subhas Candra Bose, either by the Japanese or by the Germans. So the soldiers took this opportunity; they voluntarily surrendered to the enemy. So when the Britishers understood that the soldiers, Indian soldiers, are now noncooperating, then they decided, "No, no more. It is not possible." So they voluntarily withdrew, that Sir Sirpiting(?) Lawrence, the secretary of state for India. Then they voluntarily settled up. And they settled up means the last parting kick was partition-Pakistan and India. And they partitioned in such a way that these two people will fight everlong. That is going on. They are very good politicians.
Prabhupāda: If one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then immediately he gets out of the control of māyā. That is the sign. Otherwise, if I remain a blind man, how can I lead others? Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore said, janma sārthaka kari kāra para-upakāra (CC Adi 9.41). You are very busy doing good to others, but first of all make your life perfect. And otherwise, you rascal, fool, blind, what you will do? So where is the training? Where the politicians are going to take training how to become free from the wrapping, illusion? So they are in illusion, in darkness. What they can do? Futile attempt. Therefore all plans are failure. So many Hitler, so many Gandhi, so many Churchill, they came and...
Prabhupāda: These rascals do not know they are bound up, hands and legs, by the laws of nature, and they are making solution, problem. Just like this geographer is making solution and all of a sudden will die. And then another rascal will come into that place to make solution. The problem will remain, and they will come and go. They will come and go. Napoleon came for solution, Hitler came for solution, Gandhi came for solution, but when Napoleon was offered a horse's urine instead of water, he could not make any solution.
When Gandhi was fired to death, he could not make a solution. And they were leaders for solution. What they can do? Every one of them is under strict laws of nature. As nature will do, they will have to submit. And what they will make? They are not independent. Nobody knows where is Hitler. Such a big man, he hid or he killed himself, something done, but nobody knows. And one day he become the master of the whole universe. This is going on.
Prabhupāda: There was an artificial famine in India and I particularly inquired from all devotees whether they have got any problem in this famine. They said, "No, we haven't got." I have taken the statistics. In 1942 the artificial famine created by government... So there were big earthquake in Bihar. At that time one of my godbrother, he was government auditor. So I inquired. In that earthquake only his house was saved. I have seen it many times. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). That is the only....
- samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavaṁ
- mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ
- bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ
- padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām
- (SB 10.14.58)
Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām. It is not meant for them, all these dangerous condition. Now the nuclear war means it will not continue very long. The first party who will drop the bomb on the other party, he will be victorious, and immediately the war will stop. They are simply arranging how to drop the atom bomb first. So one who will be able to drop the bomb first, he will be victorious. It doesn't require long time. Just like in Japan, as soon as the Americans dropped the atom bomb in Hiroshima, immediately they surrendered. This will be the result. Now the question is who will be able to drop the bomb first.
Siddha-svarūpa: The Japanese didn't have any atom bombs to send back, though.
Prabhupāda: No. It was in possession of Hitler. And your American stolen and kept it. Hitler wanted to use it, but, good sense, he did not like. He said that "I can do it immediately, but I will not do it." So three bombs they kept ready, and when Germany was in awkward condition these Americans, they stolen, and they used it in Japan. This was manufactured by the German.
Bali-mardana: Most of the American scientific knowledge for going to space, etc., is all gotten from the Germans.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bali-mardana: They stole the German scientists. And the Russians also, after the war, they took many German scientists.
Prabhupāda: I think the aeroplane was made by the Germans first.
Bali-mardana: Yes, the jet airplane, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And they took it, the idea, from Sanskrit literature. Yes. They purchased the book from Benares.
Prabhupāda: And Europe, the most aristocratic person means he is keeping so many horses and so many dogs. That is aristocracy. They will ride on the horse, and taking their dogs, they will go to the forest and kill some innocent birds. That is their heroic activities. We went to see one palace in France.
Satsvarūpa: Yes, I remember. In the hall they had all pictures of those activities.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: Killing birds and fox.
Prabhupāda: That is aristocracy. (break) ...cannon, there was fight? Or this man is very famous hero? There was statue of Napoleon also in Paris. And they identify Napoleon and France, the same. But France is there; there is no Napoleon. (laughter) Napoleon finished, Hitler finished, Gandhi finished.
Satsvarūpa: You said in your lecture the other day in Los Angeles that when that happens that many people are killed in one place, it means that it's arranged by the Supreme. Just like Kurukṣetra.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated by Kṛṣṇa, that "You are thinking very patriotically that you will not kill. But it is already settled. They must be killed here. I have brought them. You kill or not kill, they will be killed. That is My plan. If you want, you take credit that you have killed." This is same arrangement. It is prearranged. War means it is bringing all the animals together and kill them, finish. And that is happening every few years after years. The Napoleon is coming for killing, and Hitler is coming for killing. Sometimes Nelson is coming for killing. But here in India the God comes for killing. Lord Rāmacandra came for killing the Rāvaṇas and Kṛṣṇa came for killing the Kauravas.
Satsvarūpa: Sometimes in those mass killings pious men are killed also. At Kurukṣetra many pious men were killed?
Prabhupāda: Well, when there is killing, it is not that the pious men... But mostly they were saved. The Pāṇḍavas were saved. The five brothers, they remained.
Prabhupāda: Even if you take so-called responsibility, you will not be allowed to carry it out. The example I was giving: Napoleon, Hitler, and Gandhi. They took responsibility, but they were driven away. What can I do? So what is the meaning of your responsibility? You will not be allowed to execute your responsibility. What remedy you have done that you will not be allowed, kicked out? Then where is your responsibility? Even if you are very nice gentleman—you have taken responsibility—but nature will not allow you to execute the responsibility. What is your answer to that? Big, big Napoleon, big, big Hitler, big, big Gandhi came and gone. Where is the responsibility executed? The Napoleon was given horse urine. You know? By the Britishers.
Brahmānanda: To drink.
Prabhupāda: Yes. At the last stage when he was asking for water he was given horse urine. He died like that. Hitler committed suicide. Gandhi was killed. So where is their responsibility? They falsely thinking, "Without me, everything will be lost." But they are kicked out; everything is going on.
Brahmānanda: Adolf Hitler adopted the idea of Aryan, but his criteria for Aryan was one who had blond hair and blue eyes.
Prabhupāda: That is bodily. (chuckles) That is another foolishness. Just like we have dress. So this dress of sannyāsī is not all. I must be real sannyāsī in knowledge, in education, in behavior, not that... Hitler studies by the dress. That is the foolishness. It is not by the dress, but by the quality. Dress is also required. As I am sannyāsī, I cannot dress otherwise. That is also essential. But if one judges, "Here is a sannyāsī," then he'll misled. That is being done. People are being exploited in the dress of a sannyāsī, although actually he is not sannyāsa. That is also stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. "A sannyāsī or a brāhmaṇa will be accepted by the outward feature." If somebody has got a thread only, two paisa worth, he becomes a brāhmaṇa. And when one takes a daṇḍa, he becomes a sannyāsī. This will be the identification in the Kali-yuga.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the fault. Exploitation was their policy. Whole European, the France, Holland—go some other country and exploit. They were doing the same thing in America also. Therefore America rebelled. Washington was Englishman. Still, he rebelled. He separated. Independent. A small country and bring money from the whole world—this is their bad policy.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's actually amazing how they colonized.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It was actually amazing to think how they colonized almost...
Prabhupāda: They were obliged to do that. In the country there is no food, no shelter, nothing. Therefore Hitler's determination was, "I shall make this shopkeeper nation again fishers." What is called? Fishermen. "I shall ruin their empire." So he did it. But he also became ruined. He did it. He ruined the Englishmen, but he also became ruined, finished, Germany finished. But Germany will be able to rise again. Englishmen will not be able to.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why is that, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: They committed so many sinful activities, yes, for maintaining their empire. To sell their Manchester-made cloth they ruined the cloth industry of India and cut this finger.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Cut the thumb off.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Thumbs of the weavers so that they cannot manufacture anymore.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Very bad.
Prabhupāda: There are so many other things.
Harikeśa: They cut the thumbs of the weavers?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Let's say the government is building some wells or some roads. They could feed the people who are doing that, śūdras who are doing that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śūdras, that "You dig this well and take your food." That's all. Work will go on. At the present moment I require one scissor. I can go to the blacksmith and pay him some grain. He will give me. Now they are producing, Krupp Company in Germany, millions of razor, millions of scissors. Now they will have to find market, where to sell. And as soon as goes to sell in India, the British government—"No, no. You cannot sell." Then he becomes angry: "Oh, all right." He declares war.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So complex.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is going on. "These Britishers do not allow me to go there? All right, kill them." That was the Hitler policy and Kaiser's policy, to kill British empire. They did it. They were successful. But they were also killed. This is going on, unnecessary. Why you produce so much razor and scissor? And then find out market, and when there is competition, there is anger, there is enviousness, there is fight, one after another, one after another. Where is peace? Why do you produce so many unnecessarily? Why do you produce so many cars, when there is scarcity of power, and fight with Arabians? Anartha. Therefore it is called anartha, unnecessary. Anarthopasamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje (SB 1.7.6). As soon as people will be devotee, they will not require unnecessary things. They will be satisfied, simply bare necessities of life. That is peaceful condition. You create unnecessary needs of life, and then there is competition, there is hellish life, the factory, and then the factory man requires wine to forget his hard labor, so on, so on. Then he become thieves. He become rogues. This is your society. How you can expect peace?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The only solution is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: That's it, only solution.
Dr. Patel: Somehow or other, Bengalis and Gujaratis are akin. Why they have one living in West and other in East? What must be the cause of oneness even in thought and action, in every way.
Prabhupāda: Oneness means Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Dr. Patel: In temperament also. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: That is also external. Real unity is on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (Hindi) The Vedānta begins, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Just inquire about the soul." And where is that education? This human life, they are opening so many colleges, schools, institutions. Where is the instruction about the soul? So go-kharaḥ. (Hindi) In spite of so much improvement, they are behaving just like cats and dogs. In South Africa the Indians are given the far away from the city.
Dr. Patel: They have been very badly segregated. They can't have any business, I hear.
Prabhupāda: They are put into difficulty.
Dr. Patel: They are following Hitler's method of superiority of... They don't understand that Indians are as superior as they are, rather more, ethically.
Prabhupāda: Everyone thinks that he is superior than everyone.
Dr. Patel: No, no. The Aryan race is...
Prabhupāda: That is the disease, material disease. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has... Tṛṇād api sunīcena: "You just become..." (end)
Dr. Patel: Karl Marx, Hegel, Engels, all these fellows were more materialist, all those three philosophers. And the philosophy of Karl Marx is the abstract materialism.
Brahmānanda: Now one book has been published in Russia, An Appreciation of Nehru. All the...
Dr. Patel: He was a Marxist, you see. He went in 1912 to Moscow before the revolution to meet all those fellows.
Brahmānanda: This book is stories of different Russian scientists and politicians, philosophers, giving their appreciation of how they knew Nehru and...
Prabhupāda: Just to pacify Indira Gandhi.
Dr. Patel: Flattering.
Brahmānanda: So they've just presented this book.
Yaśomatīnandana: Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ.
Prabhupāda: Hm, yes. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharai saṁstuta puruṣa paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19).
Dr. Patel: How they smuggled away the secret of atom smashing from America, these Russians?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Dr. Patel: They smuggled away the secret of atom bomb from America.
Prabhupāda: The Germans.
Dr. Patel: No, the Russians smuggled away. Germans came to America, taking that...
Prabhupāda: They understood from the Germans.
Dr. Patel: Yes, sir, but it is said that the German scientist ran away to America because they were afraid of Hitler. If Hitler gets the secret of atom, he would bomb out the whole world.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Hitler knew it.
Dr. Patel: No. They were not able to be successful to...
Prabhupāda: No, no. He knew it, everything, but he did not like to do it. He said. He said. He was gentleman. But these people are not gentlemen. He knew it perfectly well. He said that "I can smash the whole world, but I do not use that weapon." The Germans already discovered. But out of humanity they did not use it. And all the, your American, other countries, they have stolen from German ideas.
Dr. Patel: I think, sir, German scientists ran away during the wartime to America.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Some of them went to Russia, some of them-(aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa—to America.
Brahmānanda: The German scientists, they went to America. But the plans for these things were left in Germany and the Russians came. The Russians got the plans, the Americans got the scientists.
Dr. Patel: I see. So the Russians, I mean, scientists produced from the plan the bomb.
Brahmānanda: That's why the Americans got it first, because they had the scientists.
Dr. Patel: But that man was caught from America giving away secret to the Russians. He was electrocuted, no? The science does not belong to a single race or a nation.
Prabhupāda: No, more scientists were there in Germany.
Dr. Patel: They say Germany could produce more scientists because they had all our, our Vedas and all our secret ancient books with them, the Sanskrit. They had read them.
Prabhupāda: That is also fact.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone. He was given horse urine to drink, Napoleon. Such a great hero, but he had to drink horse urine. This Englishman after Battle of, what is that? Waterloo. When he was arrested, when he was asking water, he was given horse urine. Because everyone was very, very angry. Napoleon became just like Hiranyakasipu. They were threatening their children: "Oh, he, Bona, is coming. Sleep. Sleep. Sleep." He became so much.... He was known as Bona. You do not know all these things?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Whole Europe became threatened, Napoleon. And there must be some reaction. And when he was under custody he was treated like an.... So where is independence? He had to drink horse urine as reaction of his atrocities. Hitler committed suicide and finished himself. Mussolini was forced to be killed. Gandhi was killed. And they are fighting for independence.
Harikeśa: Vimūḍhātmā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That accept. If he accepts that he's vimūḍha, then it is an advance. Just like a dog is barking, "Yow, yow, yow, yow!" You just run towards him with a stick, he'll immediately go away and stop. Because he is dog, he is thinking, "I am independent. I can bark like this." And as soon as.... Simply one stick-finish his independence. You'll find psychologically, however a big dog he may be, if you just run towards him with a stick, he'll go.... (laughs) He knows that "When this man will strike me with the stick, I cannot do anything." He knows it very well. Sometimes falsely if you touch the ground, he will go away. Everyone is thinking independently. He is forming a party, "revolution," "ism," and so many things. All of them are foolish rascals. They do not see the history. Stronger men than ourselves, Napoleon, Hitler, this man, that man, Gandhi—everyone is finished. So where is.... What is the value of my planning again? (break) There are many gods?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How can they vote for human beings?
Prabhupāda: There is no human being. A big... I gave that a big animal, lion, is fearful to the small animal. But because he is lion, very strong, does it mean that he's a human being? That is going on. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). If one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's nothing but animal. So if other small animals praise him, "Oh, you are..." This Gandhi or Indira Gandhi or, and the Hitler and... What is the value? He's a big animal, that's all.
Harikeśa: You were saying in Vṛndāvana they tweak each other's ear.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Harikeśa: Churchill was tweaking the ear of Hitler, and Hitler was tweaking... Like in school the two children?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Why you remain fools and rascals? Why...? We are following Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā. You become a guru. How? Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). That's a guru. Why don't you see all these instructions? And you are presenting yourself as following Caitanya Mahāprabhu? Why? Answer. Why you remain fool and rascal? If you want to remain fool and rascal and question, that is not very good. You must know who is guru. And you say, "I do not know who is guru." Why? Hm? What is the answer? Guru is defined by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. We are chanting daily, śrī kṛṣṇa caitanya prabhu nityānanda śrī advaita gadādhara śrī... Take their lesson. Otherwise why you are praying, śrī kṛṣṇa caitanya prabhu nityānanda? You, rather, glorify Hitler or Mussolini. Make them guru. Everything is there. You cannot say that "I do not understand." Do not understand means you do not take. What is the...? All right? (laughter)
Mahendra: In these Communist countries, Śrīla Prabhupāda, such as Russia...
Prabhupāda: Not Communist country, everywhere, a pilot is required. Not Communist country.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Every country has a leader.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So these... All this ism, Communism, this ism, this ism, beginning from that Greek history, so many changes have been made in Europe, leaders, sometimes Napoleon, sometimes Mussolini, sometimes Hitler. It is going on. So where is the perfect situation? You have changed so many leaders for so many years in the history, but where is your perfect situation?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have one leader, and our situation is perfect, and we are not changing that leader.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is perfection. We have taken Kṛṣṇa as leader. We are not taking any other leader.
Prabhupāda: ...means ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. The more we get material possession, our false egotism increases. "I have got this. I have got this. Who is more powerful than me?" Āḍhyo 'bhijanavān asmi ko 'nyo 'sti sadṛśo mayā. These are described in the Sixteenth Chapter. What is the meaning of this ahaṅkāra? Because vimūḍhātmā, that "I have got this motorcar. I have got this property," but within a second it can be finished. There is another, superior law. That he forgets. He sees actually, but he forgets. That is called vimūḍhātmā. He is seeing, everyone. Of course, our time and nature's time, little different. So many Hitlers, so many Napoleons, so many Gandhis, so many Jawaharlal came and went. But they do not see. Paśyann api na paśyati. They are seeing actually; still they do not see. Blind. In India the Mohammedans came. They ruled over. Where is the Moghul? The Englishmen came. Where they are? Everything gone. Paśyann api na paśyati. This is called vimūḍhātmā. That is going on. The material civilization means ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. By false egotism they are bewildered and rascals.
Indian Man: ...got the British out.
Prabhupāda: Hitler one side, fought with the Britishers, smashed them. This is one cause. Another cause: Hitler helped Subhas Chandra Bose to organize I.N.A. Two causes, the Britishers to go away. Otherwise, Gandhi's noncooperation movement was started in 1917, and we got our independence in 1947.
Indian Man: Thirty years.
Prabhupāda: Thirty years he could not do anything. And Subhas Chandra Bose in 1940 or '42, he went out of India and organized this I.N.A with the help of Hitler, and the Britishers were obliged to leave India. What do you think? That is my estimation.
Indian Man: Yes, I think so too. Yes, and he is also...
Prabhupāda: And Hitler not only helped Subhas Chandra Bose to organize this I.N.A. organization, but by fighting with the Britishers, he smashed... The British lion was bandaged. There was a cartoon picture. I've seen in that way. The lion is lying down and bandaged, (makes some gestures) here and here and here, there, patched: British lion. (laughter) That's a fact.
Indian Man: Subhas Chandra Bose he was in, I think he was...
Prabhupāda: He was my college friend. We studied in the same college.
Indian Man: Is that right?
Prabhupāda: He was one year senior to me. He appeared(?) from the year 1919, I appeared(?) in 1920.
Rāmeśvara: So then after the war, nothing will change. System of government, the industries, everything will just be rebuilt.
Prabhupāda: They'll try at least. Just like after the Second World War, Germany or England finished. They could not recoup. They are now poverty-stricken.
Rāmeśvara: Germany?
Prabhupāda: Germany is little recouped, but England is finished. Therefore I say India got independence not due to Gandhi. It is due to Hitler. That is my opinion. I have got reason. The Hitler fighting with England made them smashed, so their political power became nil almost, and on this opportunity, Hitler helped Subash Chandra Bose, one of the leaders of India, to organize Indian National Army. This Indian National Army, when attacked, at least made a show of attack from Imphala(?), especially on Calcutta dropped bombs, and the whole Calcutta became vacant. Perhaps myself and a few others remained. I sent my sons.... Of course, daughter was married, but they sent to Navadvīpa, Śrīdhara Mahārāja's āśrama. My wife refused to go out of Calcutta. She said, "I'll be bombed maybe, but I'll not go out." (laughs) So I had to remain in Calcutta. So I've seen bombing and Calcutta all vacant. And one day I was eating in the evening, at night—immediately bombing. Kachori... I was hungry, (laughs) but the eating finished.
Hari-śauri: It was bombed frequently, or just once or twice?
Prabhupāda: Almost daily. But it was meant for bombing the European quarters. So when the Britishers saw that "Now this Subash Bose has organized I.N.A...." I.N.A. was organized by Subash Chandra Bose. Outside India, all the Indians, they contributed money, especially from Singapore. Singapore, Hong Kong, this side..., all the Indians, they contribute sufficiently. And he got men from the fighting Indians soldiers. The Britishers, they were fighting with Indian soldiers, with Germany and Japan and others. So the contract with Hitler and Subash Bose was this, that "All the Indian soldiers which you arrest in the war, please give me them. Then I shall organize." So the soldiers, when they understood they're being arrested—"We shall go to Indian side"—they voluntarily surrendered. So Hitler, all others, Hitler and Japan, Tojo, arrest them and give it to Subash Chandra Bose, and he was organizing in Singapore.
Prabhupāda: One thing established, and again it is changed. That is described in the śāstra: punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Chewing the chewed. Just like sugarcane. One has taken the juice by chewing and thrown it in the street, and somebody again takes it and chew it, what he will get it? It is already chewed. Experiment. So all, everything has been experimented. Big, big empires, big, big society, big, big nation. That Hitler, he wanted to make something big. Napoleon wanted to make something big. Nothing big has been done. Where is Napoleon? Where is Hitler? So these are all temporary attempts. It is sure to be failure. Because they do not know how to do things. That is the defect. They are simply imagining, concoction. Here is a practical and sure proposal in the Bhagavad-gītā. God comes and He's giving personal instruction, that "Do things like this." Your economic problem, your political problem, your social problem, everything.... You ask any question, any problem, the answer is there, perfect. All problems. Why people should not take this perfect answer to all problems? That is intelligence. Experiment we have made so many materially. They have all failed. We were under British rule. So where is that British rule now? And before that, there was Roman Empire, Carthagian Empire, Egyptian Empire, so many, Mogul Empire, then British Empire, now your American Empire. But these things will not help.
Prabhupāda: When he came to India, he was my intimate friend. So he was telling me that "In our country, when some Indian student comes, especially while returning home after their education, they stop for some time in Germany, we used to inquire from him how much he is aware of his Indian original culture." Because they have got very good respect. All over the world they have got. Even Russia. They have got good respect for Indian culture. They have liked our books only on account of the..., because the Sanskrit verses are there. They took it, "Oh, it is original." Scholarly people like our book on that account, because we explain original Sanskrit verse. That they have got very good regard, that there is knowledge. They're impressed. And Britishers made propaganda only that India had no culture, almost uncivilized: They push women forcibly in the fire after the death of her husband, and in the temple, the priests, they make all nonsense with women, and so on. This was their.... Just to prove that "India was uncivilized, and we are making them civilized. By our compassion for the uncivilized persons, we are occupying."
Hari-śauri: They used to call that the "white man's burden."
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. So these English people, they were very expert in making propaganda. They killed Hitler by propaganda. I don't think Hitler was so bad man. What do you think? You are Englishman. (laughter)
Hari-śauri: It's getting.... (laughs) Just from hearing you speak in the last few months I can understand that the whole history that I was ever presented in school is completely warped around to the way that the English saw it, especially the last two centuries, when the British empire was on the move. It's completely...
Prabhupāda: But actually, the war was between Germany and England. Others joined, some interest or something. Actually, the war was to be fought between England and Germany.
Jagadīśa: There's one devotee who joined in Toronto, Frenchman, and he was in France at the time of the war. He's an older man. And he told me also.... His father was French, but he was sympathetic to the Nazis, and that it was actually Maxmillian or one of the Frenchmen who sided with the British, but the majority of the French people didn't mind the German occupation. It was due to one of the political factions siding with the British that there was a French underground and...
Prabhupāda: France, they are always enemy of Englishmen. There is is old history-Hundred Years' War, Seven Years' War. Napoleon also wanted to cut down the Britishers. France is dead enemy of England, and there is always competition.
Hari-śauri: Even just with De Gaulle also.
Prabhupāda: France is not friendly to India, uh, England.
Hari-śauri: England has always been inimical with the rest of Europe. With Germany, France, Spain, everyone.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they thought, "This is a third-class nation, a small island, fishermen, and they have wealthy (indistinct)?" That is natural. Whole world. In our childhood, we used to see map, almost whole world red-red means British. (laughter) They said that there was no sunset in the British Empire.
Hari-śauri: They actually had no resources whatsoever, the British. They had no resources whatsoever.
Prabhupāda: That was the mission of Hitler, that "These people are shopkeepers' nation, fisherman's nation. How they have become so big? This must be finished." Because their business was being hampered by the Britishers. In India we have seen. German and Japan, very cheap and first-class goods they will supply. The Britishers would not allow.
Hari-śauri: Yes, at that time, anything that was made in England automatically was considered first class.
Prabhupāda: "I take away as death." Whatever they are accumulating, everything will be taken away at the time of death. They are simply collecting, accumulating, discovering, forgetting that everything will be taken away at the time of death. Discover something which can check death, there will be no more death. That is real discovery. What do you think?
Indian man (1): It's a question to think about.
Prabhupāda: Because whatever we are discovering, it will be taken away by death. So discover something which will stop death. And that is real discovery.
Indian man (1): But don't you think it will be a bad thing, because there are some bad people in the world, like Hitler and Stalin and others, they may be the first people to use the technology to prolong their life?
Prabhupāda: The thing is, bad or good, everyone will be taken away by death. Is it not a fact? Hitler is no longer existing, neither Stalin nor Gandhi. Gandhi was supposed to be very good man. He's also taken by death, and Hitler is also taken by death. And Stalin also taken. And I'll also, you will be also. So death will take away everyone. There is no doubt about it. Therefore discover something which will stop death. That is real discovery.
Prabhupāda: "I take away as death." Whatever they are accumulating, everything will be taken away at the time of death. They are simply collecting, accumulating, discovering, forgetting that everything will be taken away at the time of death. Discover something which can check death, there will be no more death. That is real discovery. What do you think?
Indian man (1): It's a question to think about.
Prabhupāda: Because whatever we are discovering, it will be taken away by death. So discover something which will stop death. And that is real discovery.
Indian man (1): But don't you think it will be a bad thing, because there are some bad people in the world, like Hitler and Stalin and others, they may be the first people to use the technology to prolong their life?
Prabhupāda: The thing is, bad or good, everyone will be taken away by death. Is it not a fact? Hitler is no longer existing, neither Stalin nor Gandhi. Gandhi was supposed to be very good man. He's also taken by death, and Hitler is also taken by death. And Stalin also taken. And I'll also, you will be also. So death will take away everyone. There is no doubt about it. Therefore discover something which will stop death. That is real discovery.
Prabhupāda: The whole basic principle is this, that people should understand, as I was explaining this morning, the sat and asat. So at the present moment we are living in the way that is asat. But there is another life, sat. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an educational movement to raise a person from the asat platform to the sat. Under illusion they are, what is called, amock? They (laughs) have gone amock. So it is a humble attempt to stop their, this suicidal policy. They are practically committing suicide. They do not know what is the value of life and how they are spoiling it, this valuable life. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are trying to adjust things by the arrangement of external energy. That is not possible. Whatever adjustment they are making, so many big, big leaders, politicians, they came. Napoleon, Hitler, Gandhi, this, that, by the waves of material nature everything is driven away. In that way there is no possibility of adjustment. It is not... Kathacaturamanam mali mali javanam(?) How many, caturānana. Caturānana means Brahmā. They come and go, come and go. And there is no permanent life, it is all asat. So they should come to the sat platform, that is perfect. The more you remain strong in your spiritual life, then more it will be impressed, it will act. And if it actually is not spiritual life but theatrical performance, then it will not help.
Rāmeśvara: :But the natural instinct is to want to enjoy varieties...
Prabhupāda: That is material life. The material life means falsely he's thinking that he'll be happy by material adjustment. That is material life. Falsely he's thinking. He'll never be happy, but they are thinking like that. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā (SB 7.5.31). Durāśayā means this hope will never be fulfilled. That is called durāśayā, a hope which is not going to be successful at any time. And throughout the whole history they have tried, the British Empire, the Roman Empire, the Egyptian Empire, so many they tried, but all failed. Napoleon, Hitler, but still they have no eyes to see. From the history you see, everything failed. Napoleon started with some ideal, conquering all over Europe, and at last he had to die drinking horse urine. You know that? It was, later on he was arrested by British, and when he was asking drinking water he was given horse urine. That was his last life.
Devotee (1): They came to Paris to see you, and when they learned that you were here, they came all the way here to...
Prabhupada: Oh, give them this garland. (break) ...he begins with surrender. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja (BG 18.66). So anyone who voluntarily offers obeisances, immediately he becomes fifty percent advanced. Because.... Who is talking? This material world means nobody wants to surrender. Everyone wants to become master: "I am the monarch of all I survey." Everyone is planning how to become a master. Therefore the struggle for existence. Nobody wants to become a servant. You know very well in European history, Napoleon wanted to become the master of all Europe. Hitler wanted also. Similarly, there were so many leaders, sometimes Roman leaders, sometimes Greek leaders, sometimes French leaders, sometimes German leaders, English leader. The whole European history is full of fighting, war. The basic idea is that everyone wanted to become master. That is the material disease. We are now discussing Bali Maharaja. He also wanted to become master of the whole universe. So that is the material disease. Actually, master is one, Krsna. There cannot be two masters. There is only one master, that is Krsna, or God. But in the material world, because we have forgotten the real master, every one of us is trying to become master. This is material disease. Not only in one life, but life after life. The cats and dogs, they also want to be master. The dog, if he finds another dog coming, he immediately begins barking very loudly, "Why you are coming here?" So this mastership competition is going on life after life, sometimes as human being, sometimes as animal, sometimes as fish, aquatic, sometimes as demigod, bird. This is the whole material situation. And the difficulty is that we cannot become master, but on account of our false ambition that "I shall become master," we are becoming servants of material nature. We are acting in a certain way to become master, creating a situation, mentality, and at the time of death, when this body finishes, the mind absorbed in that mastership idea takes me to another body according to my ambition, so I become again manifest in different body to exhibit my mastership.
Prabhupāda: Ultimately Kaṁsa, when He was young boy. Vṛndāvana, so many asuras came. You have seen the pictures? Kṛṣṇa is fighting with the horse demon, with the bull, Dyutiman (?), fighting. If Kṛṣṇa is fighting, why not Kṛṣṇa consciousness the same thing. You cannot expect peaceful life. No, there must be fighting, then think "That is Kṛṣṇa's presence, His fight." So this fighting means they're feeling the presence of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Otherwise why they're (indistinct) fight? Had it been an insignificant thing, there was no question of fighting. (Hindi) The gun, howitzer gun, what is that? German, some gun they will go from this part of, this side of English Channel to other. Calais, the other side Calais?
Devotees: Calais.
Prabhupāda: Calais in France. So from France to other side English Channel, London, that's all right.
Guest: Artillery guns?
Prabhupāda: Yes, they... Hitler invented. The gun will be fired from this side.
Hari-śauri: Big, huge gun.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this gun is required not for killing a mosquito. (laughter) Big enemy. So they are preparing this big gun and not the mosquito and this Mahesh Yogi and this yogi. You see. They are mosquitoes. For them they don't require any gun. So for big enemy, big gun, you see. They are preparing big gun, that means Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is big enemy. It is not mosquito. So you remain a big enemy, you don't become a mosquito. That is wanted. Immediately arrange this meeting here. Call all the Vaiṣṇavas, all. (Hindi to end)
Indian man (2): And what is the use of becoming rich man? It is all fruitless.
Prabhupāda: Rich man you can become but for how long you shall be rich? The nature is so cruel; at any moment he'll take away everything. Then what is the use of becoming? No, you become rich man. There is no... But you should know that "Although I am rich, powerful, everything can be taken by nature at any moment." Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). That is statement of God, that "Any moment... You try to become rich, powerful, and president or minister, that's all right, but any moment, I can take everything from you." So who will protect himself? They have no brain that "Whatever I have created, it can be taken at any moment." So what is that confidence? They have no inquiry even. That this is a fact. Either you become Napoleon, Hitler or Gandhi, or this or that, any moment everything will be taken away. "Get out." Not only that, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), you have to accept another body. And that is no guarantee what body you are going to get because fully under the control of nature. They therefore don't believe in transmigration of the soul. And that is very great botheration. They try to evade. But Kṛṣṇa says, God says, "You cannot evade. It is nature's law." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Within your body the soul is there. On account of presence of the soul—you were a child; now you are a grown young man—the body has changed. You were a boy; now you are young man. So on account of presence of the soul, the body is changing. So when this body will be finished, the soul will exist. Therefore, naturally you have to conclude, there will be another body.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo mogha-jñānā vicetasaḥ... (BG 9.12).
Hari-śauri: Baffled hope.
Prabhupāda: It will never be fulfilled, but still, they will make plan. The Napoleon made a plan. Hitler made a plan. Churchill made a plan. Gandhi made a plan. Mussolini made a plan. But the plan and planmaker—all washed away. Things are going on as it is. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya: (BG 18.66) "Don't make plan. Take to My plan. You'll be happy. I'll give you." This planmaking... Our government has got planning commission. The planning commission has brought people in such a condition that they are dying of starvation. And they are taking salary, big, big, fat salary. This is going on.
Prabhupāda: At least Gandhi organized the public opinion against the Britishers by this noncooperation movement. They were not affected by the... Affected in this way, that public opinion was against them. That is also organization. Otherwise Gandhi's method was not harmful to the..., this noncooperation, nonviolent. That did not help. But he influenced the public opinion against them.
Rāmeśvara: All over the world.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That Hitler also did. Phāṇsa lāge dubudh bage: "If five men combine together, even the ghost will go away." (laughs) So everyone was against the Britishers. How they can keep their...? And nature's law also. They exploited the whole world for the benefit of few persons in London, and that is very bad.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So their opening a showroom is one of the item of their propaganda. But we cannot make that, make an experiment. No, that is not possible.
Rāmeśvara: It is commonly known that the Russians are spending more money on national defense, weapons...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: ...guns, than anyone else in the world.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: They are building up huge arsenals of weapons.
Prabhupāda: That is their only business. Plunder from everywhere and spend it for their own defense. The Jawaharlal Nehru and company, they supported Russia to save themselves from America. Otherwise there was no purpose.
Rāmeśvara: Who?
Hari-śauri: Jawaharlal Nehru.
Prabhupāda: And actually India was saved on account of Russia. During the Pakistan and Hindustan fight, there was ninety percent chance that America will openly take part with the Pakistan. And because the Russians were there, seen in the Indian Ocean—they have come with their warfare materials—the Americans stopped, that "It is going to be great conflict." Otherwise that was the chance to take over India by the Pakistanis with American help. That was the plan. That is a great achievement of Indira Gandhi, that (s)he, tactfully showing herself in the side of Russia, (s)he separated Bangladesh from Pakistan, and Pakistan is physically finished, that great achievement, separated Bangladesh. Now Pakistan has no value.
Hari-śauri: Pakistan is finished.
Prabhupāda: Pakistan is finished, because the Bangladesh was supplying jute, rice, pan, great business.
Rāmeśvara: The government of Bangladesh was just murdered.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: They were all murdered.
Prabhupāda: It is due to this American CIA. Therefore I...
Rāmeśvara: Now they may again become lined up with Pakistan.
Prabhupāda: That is politics. Once you become strong; once I become... That is struggle. It will go on. You cannot stop.
Rāmeśvara: It's also commonly known that in the West the banks supplied money to Lenin to fight his revolution. They have no discrimination. If it seems like it is a good chance for making interest...
Prabhupāda: Therefore Hitler killed these Jews. They were financing against Germany. Otherwise he had no enmity with the Jews.
Hari-śauri: Yes. They were controlling the economy. That was his one thing.
Prabhupāda: And they were supplying. They want interest money—"Never mind against our country." Therefore Hitler decided, "Kill all the Jews."
Rāmeśvara: These banks in the West, they supported Lenin. They made it possible to finance his revolution.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They have got money. The Jews have got money. They want to invest and get some profit. Their only interest is how to get money, no nationalism, no religion, nothing of the sort. Therefore it is not now; long, long ago... Therefore Shakespeare wrote "Shylock, the Jew."
Hari-śauri: Yes. "Shylock."
Prabhupāda: "One pound of flesh." The Jews were criticized long, long ago.
Hari-śauri: They were hated in the Middle Ages.
Rāmeśvara: America now has this policy that they will sell their guns to both sides.
Prabhupāda: That is all right, because they are doing business. So I am shopkeeper. Anyone pays, I shall... That is good.
Rāmeśvara: But no discrimination.
Prabhupāda: Why discrimination? I am selling. You come. Pay me. I shall give you.
Rāmeśvara: It's dangerous. They are promoting violence.
Prabhupāda: That dangerous in every item. This Gandhi was also dangerous, although superficially nonviolent. Everyone is dangerous. Until one is devotee, he's dangerous in any position. He's dangerous. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. It is mental concoction that "This is good; this is bad." Everything is bad.
Hari-śauri: Part of their policy for that, though, was because they supported the Israelis, and then the Arabs started to squeeze them on the oil, so they had to get friendly with the Arabs again. So they started to supply them arms.
Prabhupāda: They'll have to change because it is mano-dharma, mental concoction.
Rāmeśvara: Mano-dharma.
Prabhupāda: Mano-dharma means once you accept, "Good," and next moment you reject it, "Bad." This is mano-dharma. So that is going on. And therefore we have taken this vow that "Whatever Kṛṣṇa said, that is good, and everything bad. Bas." Our confusion is finished.
Prabhupāda: Anything. Śarīra nā mahāśaya, yā saha mithaya saha (?) There is a Bengali proverb that the body is very nice. If you practice something, it will tolerate. Jaya. (devotees offer obeisances) (break) And whatever plan he's making, it will be all frustrated. That is the whole history. Big, big emperor, big, big politicians, they have tried. Roman Empire, the Carthagian Empire, Greece Empire, Egyptian Empire, and Mogul Empire, British Empire—all frustrated. It will never be successful. For a few days, hundred, two hundred years or five hundred years, it may go on. So real plan is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then everything is successful. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). These rascals, on account of false prestigious position, trying to be happy without God... That is not possible. Throughout the history you study. So many rascals have tried. The Napoleon, the Hitler, the Gandhi, this, that. What they have achieved? Nothing. If we honestly study their lives and activities, what they have achieved? Hm? Do you think they have achieved anything?
Prabhupāda: No, it is circumstantial. Circumstantially means the Britishers were not at all concerned about the non... They knew that "We..."
Guest (1): Had to go.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No. They knew that "We are not going. So long the nonviolence is there, we are safe." They were occasionally calling Gandhi and patting him: "Sir, why you are doing this? Let us compromise," because he knew that "So long nonviolence will continue, we are safe." But Subash Bose's protest was that "If you don't take to violence, then these people are never going." That was the difference of opinion between Subash Bose and... So when he was taking the Congress in hand, Gandhi became so angry that Subash Bose, being elected President, Gandhi did not attend the Congress. So other workers, he requested Subash Bose that "You resign. Otherwise Gandhi will not."(?) So he resigned. He done right. And then he thought that "Unless I go out of India, I cannot do anything." Then he managed to go out of India, and Singapore, he... Indians with their help and Hitler's intervention, he organized this INA. And when the Britisher's saw that "Now the soldiers are joining national movement, then we cannot rule over," then they decided, "Let us make some compromise, and as much possible, do harm. Divide this India, Pakistan and India, and go away." This is fact.
Prabhupāda: No, nobody cares for this non... (break) That is not, that India has no kṣatriya spirit. Very good kṣatriya spirit. But it was not organized. That is the difference of opinion between Gandhi and Subash. He wanted to organize it.
Guest (1): That's... But Gandhiji knew actually it's not possible to organize this violence in India, because the people are not of that nature.
Prabhupāda: No, everything has got. Just like Subash Bose organized outside.
Guest (1): Subash Bose was a very great organizer and a great politician.
Prabhupāda: He organized. He made compromise, some he made, this Hitler and Tojo, that "Whoever, Indian soldiers surrendered, you..."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Still, we don't know we'll live for fifty years.
Prabhupāda: That is another difficulty. For general calculation a man can live up to a hundred years in this age. So in the middle, stop all rascaldom-compulsory. Now take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because you are persistent to continue your rascaldom, all right, do it up to this point. And then stop all this. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is a concession for continuing the rascaldom. But if he's so fool that he will continue the rascaldom as Jawaharlal Nehru did and Gandhi did and Hitler did and-up to the point of death—let him do. What can be done? They will continue their rascaldom. Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Gandhi, unless he was killed by his own men, he did not retire. Jawaharlal Nehru, when he was just... There is no other way. He was in Dehra Dun, still Prime Minister, and he was brought very quickly from Dehra Dun to Delhi, and after one hour he died. All these politicians... And it is learned that he has become a dog in Scandinavia. You cannot say, "No," because you do not know what he has become.
Prabhupāda: Hm. So there was the minister Nizamuddin, I think, he helped him to go out. He was going for evening walk with police force and other. So it became accustomed. Police became lenient, in the meantime slipped. And in a dress of a Kābuli, Kābuli-wālā, Pāṭhan he crossed India. In this way he went there.
Bhāgavata: I heard he took the dress of a Muslim?
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is called... Yes. This is called pāṭhan. So after going outside India, he organized this INA, Indian National Army. And Hitler helped him. Tojo also wanted to help him, but he had a plan.
Bhāgavata: Different motive. So Hitler, he had no...
Prabhupāda: No Hitler actually helped him, all the soldiers. And then the Sikh soldiers and Gurkha soldiers voluntarily surrendered to join INA. And this information obliged the Britishers to go away. Then "Now the army is joining national movement, so there is no hope." The Gandhi's noncooperation, the clerks' noncooperation the, some of these teachers' noncooperation what do they care for? But when they saw that "The soldiers are now going to join this non..." Gandhi diagnosed the disease rightly, that "The Britishers are here on account of our cooperation. Without this cooperation, they'll go away." That's a fact. So his noncooperation movement was... It was a good trick, but actually he did not succeed. And this movement succeeded. That "Now he's organizing Indian soldiers for national movement. There is no chance."
Prabhupāda: Asuras are being created, and the whole plan is to kill them. So struggle for existence. The asuras, they want to live. Mahiṣāsura he's struggling with the weapons of Māyā, Durgā. He'll be failure, but still-ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham (BG 3.27)—by false egotism he's thinking, "I shall conquer over the material..." That is scientist, so-called scientist. Asuras are... They are planning that "We shall do without nature's control." That is mūḍha. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā dura... (BG 7.14). They cannot conquer it. That is not possible. But you are struggling. You do not want the control of nature. And nature is so strong... Now it is raining. Within one hour they can vanquish the whole world. Doesn't take time. If there is one cyclone and heavy rain, then you are put into danger. So long it is mild, it is all right. And as soon as becomes ferocious, then finish you. What you'll control the nature? When there is no rain, you cannot bring in rain; and when there is heavy rain, you cannot stop it. Then where is your control? You rascal, you think like that, "We shall control over nature." This is your rascaldom. You cannot control over. So everything has its use, and how to use it properly, that is all described in the Bhagavad-gītā. And if you take instruction of Kṛṣṇa and ultimately surrender to Him, that is success of life. Otherwise, struggle for existence, survival of the fittest... Nature is fittest. You'll die; nature will be... You are not fit to fight with the nature. That is asura temperament. And that will never be successful. So many asuras came. Formerly there was Hiraṇyakaśipu, Rāvaṇa, Kaṁsa and others. In the recent years there was Hitler, there was Churchill, there was Lenin, and Gandhi and so on, so on. For few days. Then gone: "Get out. Bas. Finished." Big, big scientists, big, big asuras, big, big leaders, what they could do? Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvaiḥ. Where is Bhagavad-gītā? Read from the... Tribhir guṇamayaiḥ. Seventh Chapter.
Prabhupāda: Ah, in Durban. That was failure. The Indians haven't got any position still.
Jayatīrtha: None.
Prabhupāda: None. So that twenty years, failure, and here also he started that nonviolence-thirty years. In 1917 he came here from Africa, and the nonviolent, noncooperation... Actually the Hitler's war in 1947 helped India to become independent, the Hitler's cooperation with Subash Bose, INA. When he organized the soldiers, then Britishers thought, "No more chance." Then they left India. Not for the nonviolence. These are artificial things, in politics nonviolence.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They have been taught to become group of dogs and crows. That's all. These political party.
Mr. Koshi: You are against politicians.
Prabhupāda: No, no, we are not against, neither for. But these things will go on. This is going on since the creation, but that will not help. There have been, in other countries there has been Napoleon, there has been Hitler, there has been Mussolini, there has been Churchill. In India also we had many leaders like Gandhi and others. So what contribution they made? People are suffering.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Prakash Narayan.
Prabhupāda: Jaya Prakash Narayan. Even in old days they were dealing with this politics. What they will do good to the people? But they do not know. This is disease. They do not study the whole history of the world. What Gandhi has done? What Hitler has done? What Napoleon has done? And what they will do? But they are applauded. "He is promising within one year poverty will be driven away." All false propaganda. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). Vimūḍhātmā. Rascals. They are promising so many things. They will never be able to do anything. And they are applauded.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Prakash Narayan.
Prabhupāda: Jaya Prakash Narayan. Morarji Desai, Indira Gandhi, and... What they'll do? Churchill and this and Napoleon, Hitler. Simply misguiding, whole history. Simply mis... They are rascals. They do not know what is what, and they lead. Gandhi... All rascals. Vivekananda and Sai Baba, this, that, so many... They should be stopped. That is real philanthropic activities. Where is...? Now we are going to show this planetarium. These rascal scientists: "All desert. All rocks and desert." Simply this planet, for his father's property. This is now happening. "The moon planet is a desert." And from the desert such brilliant light is coming that is illuminating at night the whole universe. And we have to believe it because they are spoken by scientists. You see? All rascals, fools, rogues, thieves, they are leading. And our determination is to stop these rascals.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Coliseum. That's the Greek Coliseum, they...
Prabhupāda: By keeping one lion and fighting him and it is enjoyed. What is this? What they have gained? In this way, the privileged... Is it not subject perception? What Napoleon has done? Or Hitler has done? Or Churchill has done?
Prabhupāda: No, their position, economic position, is also better than France, England. I have seen it. Even in the villages they are well-to-do. They have recouped all they have lost.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. Belgium, you go through Belgium, it's still devastated. And Germany is completely built up.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. I think in... For culture, France, and for improvement, economic development, they have done in Germany.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Britain?
Prabhupāda: Britain is... They are shopkeepers. Hitler gave them this title, "Shopkeepers' Nation." That was his determination: "The shopkeepers' nation, I shall turn them again to be shopkeepers, not the empire holder." That he did. Although he was finished-Germany was finished on account of this—but they executed their determination, British empire finished. That they did. After the second war, British...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Finished.
Prabhupāda: Now they are poverty-stricken.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: So Hitler's grudge against the Englishmen, that is fruitful. Actually he owned the war.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He won. He won the war.
Prabhupāda: Because that was his determination. "I shall finish this British nation. Everywhere they have got flag, all over the world, I shall finish." That he did. And Britishers saved because the Americans joined. Otherwise... Churchill, he removed all valuables from London to Canada, all papers, all gold stock, everything. There is a book about this. Just like when there is danger you rush to save some valuables. Is it not?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that's what you take first.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So British Empire, so many things in London, he all removed to Canada.
Prabhupāda: And Kṛṣṇa says that "If anyone does not take up My instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, then he does not get Me, and the result is that he'll again turn to this change of body, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartma..." So they are not careful about these things, so what do they understand about Bhagavad-gītā? The real problem they do not touch. And the body will change, and he'll live in India or in America, say, for fifty years. He's busy. That is cats, just like these cats and dogs at night. Nobody has given him charge, but he is thinking "I am in charge of the road. Why this put-put motorcar, you have come here? Go on. Go on. Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" But who has given him charge? But he's starving, and people are throwing stone upon him, but he's thinking "I am in charge of this business. Why at night this car has come?" Dog mentality. Is it not exactly like the dog? He's disturbing all others—"Gow, gow! Gow, gow, gow!"—but he's thinking that "I am in charge." Is it not dog dancing, these politicians, politics? Who cares for you? Gandhi or there, he has gone. Does it mean the world activities stop? Churchill was there. He has gone. Hitler was there. They are coming and going like so many insects. Napoleon was there. Who cares for them? We are licking up their so-called activities: "Oh, Napoleon was so great. Gandhi was so great." And what he has done? The dog dancing. Who can understand that unless one is Kṛṣṇa conscious? What he has done actually? Has he stopped death? No. Population, birth, sterilization... Will they be able to stop it? Simply manufacturing concoction and jumping like a... That's all. And if you say the real thing, upadeṣo hi mūrkhāṇāṁ prakopāya na śāntaye, they'll become angry.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There was recently an article. Previously there was oil shortage in the world. Now they are predicting that there is going to be a water shortage.
Prabhupāda: Everything will be shortage. That is nature's arrangement. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). They cannot make any plan successful without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So long they'll insist upon this point, that "Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness we shall do everything successfully..." That is durāśā. As long as they persist on this, they'll remain rascals. Every plan will be failure. Durāśā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī. Nature, material nature, is against them. No plan will be allowed to be... Just trace out the history. Every plan has been unsuccessful, either Eastern, Western. Napoleon made plan, Hitler made plan, Gandhi made plan. So many rascals, they made plan. Everyone's plan, impersonalist, they are unsuccessful at the end. Gandhi was killed, Napoleon was dishonored, Mussolini was killed, Hitler nowhere... Take all these big, big...
Prabhupāda: (tape very faint throughout) ...divorce, child-killing or making the children hippies, that all. Or find out some war to destroy them. When it is unmanageable, they declare war: "Engage these rascals." The politicians do that. When they cannot manage, they declare war, because they are not human beings; they are animals, Churchill and Hitler and this... "Start some war and finish this population." Or it may be nature's law. "When there is unnecessary population let there be war, famine, pestilence." That is one theory, Malthus' theory.
Correspondence
1947 to 1965 Correspondence
Now by the Grace of God that illusion is going to be cleared and thus your faithful friends like Acarya Kripalini and others are accusing you for your inability at the present moment to give them any practical programme of work as you happened to give them during your glorious days of non-co-operation movement. So you are also in a plight to find out a proper solution for the present political tangle created by your opponents. You should therefore take a note of warning from your insignificant friend like me, that unless you retire timely from politics and engage yourself cent per cent in the preaching work of Bhagavad-gita, which is the real function of the Mahatmas, you shall have to meet with such inglorious deaths as Mussolini, Hitlers, Tojos, Churchills or Lloyd Georges met with.
1972 Correspondence
It appears that you are again constantly disturbed by the same nonsense doubts. These things are not very important, we may not waste our time with these insignificant questions. If we are seeking to find out some fault, maya will give us all facility to find any small thing and make it very big, that is maya. But such questions as yours: why there is so-called discrepancy between the views of Bhagavat and modern scientists regarding the moon and other planets, and whether Hitler is good or bad man, these are most insignificant matters, and for anyone who is sincerely convinced that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for him these questions do not arise. Our information comes from Vedas, and if we believe Krishna, that
- vedaham samatitani
- vartamanani carjuna
- bhavisyani ca bhutani
- mam tu veda na kascana
- (BG 7.26)
that He knows everything, and "vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyo vedanta-krd veda-vid eva caham (BG 15.15)," that Krishna is non-different from Vedas, then these questions do not arise.
Regarding Hitler, so Hitler may be good man or bad man, so what does he help to our Krishna Consciousness movement? But it is a fact that much propaganda was made against him, that much I know, and the Britishers are first-class propagandists. And I have heard that his officers did everything without informing him, just like in our ISKCON there are so many false things: "Prabhupada said this, Prabhupada said that." But we have nothing to do with Hitler in our Krishna Consciousness. Do not be deviated by such ideas "Jnanam jneyam jnana-gamyam," (ibid), Krishna is knowledge, He is the object of knowledge, He is the goal of knowledge, and
- you mam evam asammudho
- janati purusottamam
- sa sarva-vid bhajati mam
(Bg. XV, 19) (BG 15.19)
"Whoever knows Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, without doubting, is to be understood as the knower of everything, and he engages himself therefore in devotional service"—this is the understanding of advanced devotee, so my best advice to you is to agree to come to this understanding.
1976 Correspondence
Regarding making a movie to help people become Krishna Conscious. If we show such devotional activities as worshiping the Deity, the karmis will think it is some sentiment, people worshiping a statue. Unless they hear from devotees and then practically perform devotional service themselves, what benefit will there be? As far as your point that those who say movies about Hitler identified with him and followed him, Hitler was still finished despite so much propaganda. Napoleon, Mussolini, Churchill—they all made so much propaganda—but the French, Italian, British, and German empires are all lost now. Our real propaganda is to chant the Hare Krishna Maha-mantra, and let the mass of people chant and dance with us. If this movie induces people to chant and dance it is O.K. If it aids our cause then it is welcome. The best thing is for you to give this subject matter to your GBC for discussion at this year's GBC meeting in March.
Why should our temples support or denounce Hitler. If somebody says something in this connection it must simply be some sentiment. We have nothing to do with politics. It is after all sentiment, you say something and I say something.
It will be a great achievement if you can write this book on the theme, "anything undertaken without Krsna fails." Here in India we have just seen how they have made a big, big plan for the city of Chandigargh. So much land is lying vacant, and in the meantime people are going hungry. Because they are not Krsna conscious, they do not know how to utilize anything properly. They are simply thinking of satisfying their own senses. So many big, big plans, but the result is that people are unhappy. Napoleon and Hitler made big, big plans, where are they now? All failures. Churchill wanted to keep India under control. Gandhi wanted to drive away the Englishmen. Now, the Englishmen are driven away and things are going on by the laws of nature. Churchill and others have remained in comatose condition before dying due to excessive attachment to their plans. All failures.
| Page Title: | Hitler |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti |
| Created: | 24 of Mar, 2010 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=1, SB=2, CC=0, OB=2, Lec=42, Con=65, Let=6 |
| No. of Quotes: | 118 |