History (Conv. 1967 - 1975)

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1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: That's all. But how this temple was established, how Gopāla was established, that history is in that story. The Sākṣi-gopāla means witness. This Gopāla was situated in Vṛndāvana, but to give witness for His devotee He came to Orissa, that place. That is the significance of this Gopāla. Do you follow?

Hayagrīva: No. (laughs) No.

Prabhupāda: This Gopāla was situated at Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana means about more than one thousand miles away from where the temple is situated now. But He came one thousand miles to give witness for His devotee. Since then, Gopāla is situated there. So that story is narrated. That story should be narrated or what? How to do it? That is the significance of the temple. There was some family quarrel and Gopāla came to give witness to decide judgement on that quarrel. So it is possible to describe?

Hayagrīva: I think from a dramatic point of view, that in your third act, you can't have too many narrations. It becomes very tedious. If you have a narration. Someone telling the history of various temples. Like in the first scene, now there's a story being told Lord Caitanya by Nityānanda. Now in the second scene He visits another temple. And is there going to be another narration about how the temple was founded? I don't think that's... I don't know. (laughs) Do you think that will be all right?

Prabhupāda: No. That will be all right in this way, that the narration should be shortly described in poetry and that will be chanted with kīrtana. In that way, you see.

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: The life history of Haridāsa is that he was born in a Muhammadan family. Someway or other he became a devotee and was chanting 300,000 times Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu made him ācārya, the authority of chanting. Therefore we glorify him, "Nāmācārya Haridāsa Ṭhākura ki jaya." Because he was made the ācārya, the authority of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then, when Lord Caitanya took sannyāsa, Haridāsa Ṭhākura desired that "My dear Lord, You are leaving Nabadwip, then what is the use of my life? Either you take me or let me die." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "No. Why shall you die? You come with Me." So He took him to Jagannātha Purī. At Jagannātha Purī, because he considered himself born of Muhammadan family, he did not enter. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave him a place at Kāśīnātha Miśra's house and there he was chanting and Caitanya Mahāprabhu's sending him prasādam. In that way he was passing his days. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to come and see him daily, and one day he died like this.

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk at Stow Lake -- March 27, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Seaweeds, yes. So they... All over the body there was some seaweeds. Not exactly... He was very unclean and odd-looking, and beard and ugly. So he thought that "He's a great yogi. If I refuse, 'No, I'm not going to hand over my daughter to you,' then he may be angry and create some catastrophe." So he said, just to avoid him, that "I have got eight daughters, and it is the desire of my daughters that they should be given over to one husband." No, that "they should be married all at once. So unless I find other husbands for my daughters you have to wait." So immediately, "Yes, I shall myself become eight then." And he expanded himself, eight expansions. So at that time what could he say? He said, "You know, my dear sir, that they are princesses after all. They may not like such ugly husband." Oh, he at once became very youthful and beautiful. Then he married. So in the history you can find that a perfect yogi can expand himself. So similarly, Kardama Muni also expanded into nine. He married Devahūti on condition that unless his wife has got sufficient children, he'll not leave her, and he must leave her. So he expanded himself nine and begotten nine daughters. So we can find from history, the Purāṇas... Purāṇas all means history, Purāṇas. Old history. Purāṇa means old. So even a perfect yogi can expand, what to speak of Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk at Stow Lake -- March 27, 1968, San Francisco:

He rescued all the girls. But the girls requested Kṛṣṇa that "Because we were kidnapped and we are concentrated under his custody, so if we go back to our father, it will be difficult for him to get us married to a suitable prince. So our request is that You marry us." (Prabhupāda laughs) Kṛṣṇa agreed, "All right." He married wholesale, 16,100. (laughter) And that can be possible. Why 16,100? He can marry 16 million at a time. Otherwise how He's God? Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja advises his classfellows that "Don't be bothering yourself for solution of economic question." That is already provided. Just like all these animals, Prabhupāda: these birds, they have no question how to live, how to eat, how to mate, how to defend. This is already there. They're eating, they're sleeping, they're mating, and they're defending as far as required. Just see the birds, as soon as they see us they go away, take defense. (laughs) So the defending propensity is there. How you can say the man is greater intelligence? There is intelligence. They were here, and as soon as they saw, "Here are come all the men. They can eat us. Let us fly there." The man cannot come in the water. So don't you see the defensive propensity is here? You may, according to your intelligence, you may discover defensive weapons, nuclear weapons, and aeroplanes, and bombs, and so many things. Because you have got higher intelligence. That the... But the ultimate conclusion: that the defensive propensity is there in you also. There is no difference in the material existentional propensities. So whatever does he find? (break) ...from history point?

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: Forget that. You are attracted. That you take account of. When you become diseased, that is useless. You are diseased. Take medicine. There is no necessity of asking when you became diseased. You are diseased. Take medicine. That's all. What is the use of tracing the history? Everything has his history, that's all right. But my immediate necessity is that "I am diseased. I want to be cured. Give me some medicine." But there is history. The history is this. Just like disease. You have fallen victim of disease. That means you have given chance to the infection. That's all. That is the sum and substance of disease. You are infected with some disease. That means you have given chance for that infection. There was a story in a medical journal. "Typhoid Mary." Typhoid Mary... One girl, whenever she was present everyone was being infected with typhoid. Then she was examined, that she is full of typhoid germs. But she was immune. But she infected wherever she went. The medical journal reported. So we should be careful not being infected. And that how you can become free from infection? These four rules. "Don't have this, don't have this, don't have this, don't have this." Then you are free from infection. So you should be careful from being infected. There is no use tracing out the history when you become infected. You should not be infected. That should be your business. And as you are now infected, you try to avoid the causes of infection and take the medicine; you become cured. Some prasādam? So Annapurna you have got some news?

Annapurna: I got a letter from my father.

Prabhupada Comments on Prahlada Maharaja Slides - August 25, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: We are almost of the same age. How do you say that You explained this Bhagavad-gītā millions and millions of years ago to the sun-god? How can I believe it?" In answer to this question, Kṛṣṇa said that, "Both you..." (break) "...descended on this material world many many times, but you have forgotten. I remember." That is the nature of ordinary living entity. The nature is forgetfulness. But God does not forget. He knows past, present, and future. That is the difference between Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa. So the fighting spirit, it is to be understood. The fighting spirit is there in the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and it is exhibited at a certain period just to teach us that when fighting should be taken. Fighting is not very good thing, but if there is necessity... Just like in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra. The Battlefield of Kurukṣetra was organized by two rival parties. One party was pious; another party was impious. So Kṛṣṇa took side of Arjuna, and he was victorious. That is the history of Kurukṣetra fight. So the Lord wanted to exhibit His fighting spirit. And who will fight with Him? Therefore two of His devotees were resigned that they should go in the material world and fight with the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Questions and Answers -- Montreal, August 26, 1968:

So Caitanya Mahāprabhu had all these facilities. He was learned, very honored young man in His country; He had many followings. In one incidence we can understand how beloved leader He was. The Kazi challenged His saṅkīrtana movement and first times warned Him not to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and when He did not care for it, then he ordered that, er, that mṛdaṅga should be broken. So the constables came and broke the mṛdaṅgas. This information was given to Lord Caitanya, and He ordered civil disobedience. He was the first man in the history of India who started this civil disobedience movement. It is not Gandhi who is the originator of civil disobedience; it was Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He said that "Defy the order of the Kazi." Kazi means magistrate. So "This evening we shall go at the Kazi's house in hundreds of thousands, with mṛdaṅga and kīrtana." So simply by His order many hundreds of thousands young men—not young men; young, old, all kind of men-gathered, and... The point is just how popular leader He was. Even in His young age, when He was only twenty years old, how popular He was. So..., and because He was a learned brāhmaṇa, people would send Him many presentation.

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Interviewer: Would you give me a background, the history and origin of Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: No history can trace out the origin of Kṛṣṇa consciousness because the living entities, they are eternal. The bodily concept of life is not correct. Nobody dies, nobody takes birth. Everyone is eternal. This change of body is considered a change of dress. Therefore nobody can say that "This is the beginning of life." So whenever there is life, there is consciousness also, and originally the consciousness is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But due to our long material association that consciousness is covered. Therefore we are out of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This movement is to revive that Kṛṣṇa consciousness again, so that he can be raised to his original position.

Interviewer: Would you describe where Kṛṣṇa consciousness started and why you have come to the Western world?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. It is a very popular and old literature, Vedic literature, known all over the world. But so far the history of this Bhagavad-gītā is concerned, there are difference of opinions, but factually even if we take it as it is, it is at least five thousand years old. And in the Bhagavad-gītā we learn that five thousand years ago it was spoken on the battlefield of Kurukṣetra. But before that, some millions of years ago, the same Bhagavad-gītā was spoken long, long ago. So actually the human effort cannot trace out the history of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but taking consideration of the present history, it is at least as old as five thousand years.

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Reporter: Yes. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness, its Vedic literature, they have some of the same books or also holy books for what we call Hindu religions, aren't they?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just try to understand, the inhabitants of India were called by the Muhammadans from Persia and other places, "Hindus." "Hindus" means the resident on the other side of the River Indus. You have heard the name of River Indus. So they cannot pronounce it Indus, they say "Hindus." From "Hindus," it has become "Hindu." So actually the residents of India were called "Hindus." And generally, at least in, say, three thousand years ago, all the inhabitants of India were strictly followers of Vedic principles. After the advent of Lord Buddha, a different religious system developed. Otherwise, before Lord Buddha, there was all the... Not only in India, in other parts of the world. They were followers of Vedic principles. So in that sense, you can say if followers of Vedic principles are called Hindus, then before Lord Buddha, everyone was Hindu all over the world. Not that particular part of India. So far we have got historical reference from Mahābhārata, Indo-European stock, they are also Hindus, the so-called Hindus, followers of Vedic principles. Yes. Gradually, they deviated. Just like recently there is division of Pakistan and India. Twenty years before, this Pakistan was part of India. Now, these Muhammadans, they did not come from outside. They changed their faith from Hindus to Muhammadans. Now they divided their property. Similarly, actually the whole planet was called Bhārata-varṣa. Gradually, people deviated from Vedic principles or imitated something else and they became different.

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You take this orange.

Hayagrīva: Do you want to take this, read these booklets? This one's just a running history of the Society and this is the magazine. So if you'd like, you can take it.

Reporter: Okay. Fine.

Prabhupāda: Our Kṛṣṇa... You should kindly note it that our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement has nothing to do with this moon planet. But we are not aiming to go to the moon planet.

Reporter: I realize that. Yes. Your name was Howard...?

Hayagrīva: Wheeler.

Reporter: Wheeler? Thank you very much. Okay. Thank you.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. (end)

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: It was not there because in India there are so many churches, and they're supposed to be very saintly person. So simply to become a disciple of a saintly person is sufficient certificate. Just like in your country, marriage requires certificate. In India still, there is no certificate. The boys and girls, they are seated before the relatives and priest and elderly persons. They are offered. I am doing that. There is no certificate. But still their connection is lifelong. What certificate will do? That ceremony is so nice, the wife takes "My husband for life" and the husband takes wife, "She is my companion for life." They cannot separate. There is no history in India that there was a certificate issued. No. But still, their connection is so nice, that life long. Now, they are being westernized, especially I am very sorry to say that lately our so-called westernized leaders they are introducing this Hindu code bill, this marriage certificate, this and that. But formerly they weren't existing.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation Including Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.1-34 Recitation & Explanation -- April 1, 1969, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: This is second chapter, First Canto. Sūta Gosvāmī, before speaking to the audience, he is offering his respect to the spiritual master. To offer respect to anyone means to remember his qualification. Just like we sing... Just like you offer respect to your spiritual master. What is the meaning?

nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

śrīmad-bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine

Yes. "I offer my respectful obeisances to Swami Bhaktivedanta, who is very dear to Kṛṣṇa, and has come before us to deliver." This is the meaning. So his qualification is described. Similarly, here also Sūta Gosvāmī is offering respect to his spiritual master, Śukadeva Gosvāmī. And he is repeating the history of Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Śukadeva Gosvāmī, just after taking birth from the mother's womb, immediately he started, without staying for a moment.

Conversation Including Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.1-34 Recitation & Explanation -- April 1, 1969, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: He was passing through the jungle, and the trees as he vibrated... He was asking, "My dear son, my dear son," and the vibration "My dear son, my dear son." Like that. Taṁ sarva-bhūta-hṛdayaṁ munim ānato 'smi (SB 1.2.2). So "I am offering my respect to that saintly person." That means his qualification described and offered respect. And then next qualification, what is that? Yaḥ svānubhāvam akhila-śruti-sāram ekam ākhyātma-dīpam atititīrṣataṁ tamo 'ndham (SB 1.2.3). And his other qualification is that he presented the gist, essence, substance, of Vedic knowledge for the persons who are eager to get out of the darkness of this material existence. Atititīrṣataṁ tamo 'ndham saṁsariṇaṁ karuṇayāha (SB 1.2.3). And purāṇa guhyam. This Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is called the mahā-purāṇa, I mean to say, "the greatest history." Purāṇa means history, old history. Guhyam, very confidential. He explained this great, confidential history for the people who are suffering the repeated birth and death. For their purpose, he is so kind that he explained. Saṁsariṇaṁ karuṇayā. Karuṇayā means out of compassionate, compassion for the persons who are suffering continually birth and death. Taṁ vyāsa-sūnam upayāmi guruṁ munīnām. So "I offer my respect to that son of Vyasa who is spiritual master of many other saintly persons."

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Some of them will remain, some of them. It will not completely extinguish. Some of them will remain, pious. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). All miscreants will be killed, and out of them, there must be some pious... They remain.

Allen Ginsberg: Do you think of this in terms of a historical event that will occur in the lifetime of your disciples?

Prabhupāda: No. This will happen at least 400,000's of years after, at least. So by that time...

Allen Ginsberg: They will go down, down, down for 400,000 years?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So at that time my disciples will be with Kṛṣṇa. (laughter)

Devotees: Haribol!

Prabhupāda: And those who will not follow them, they will see the fun, how they are being killed. (laughter)

Allen Ginsberg: 400,000 years. Will people still be chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa in 400,000...

Prabhupāda: No. Hare Kṛṣṇa will be finished within ten thousand years. There will be no more Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: Kali eats her own...

Prabhupāda: Yes. And there will be no brain to understand, no preacher, nothing else. Go. Go to, to the dog. And then Kṛṣṇa will come: "All right, let me kill you so that you are saved." So...

Allen Ginsberg: But you see it as actually a historical thing of ten thousand years for the chanting, of the diminishing chanting of...

Prabhupāda: Yes. These are...

Allen Ginsberg: Well, then do you think more people will chant Hare Kṛṣṇa or fewer?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. More people. Now it will increase.

Allen Ginsberg: Until?

Prabhupāda: Up to ten thousand years.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Twelfth Canto. And you will find that all the descriptions are coming to be true. Just like there is one statement, svīkaram eva udvahe: "Marriage will be performed simply by agreement." Now that is being done. And lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dharaṇam: "People will think that he has become very beautiful by keeping bunch of hairs." That is coming true. These are written there. All things are there in Bhāgavata history.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, in the Bhāgavata Purāṇa is there also provision for the Caitanya cult?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇam (SB 11.5.32). We have given that in that book, our Teachings of Lord Caitanya. That is the first quotation there.

Allen Ginsberg: So it's on this quotation from Bhāgavata Purāṇa that Caitanya built His system?

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is program, already presented, and He came to execute the program. Just like our meeting is already programmed. I come and execute it. That's all. That was previous. Clearly it is said, " 'In the Kali-yuga the Supreme Lord comes as one who always chants the holy name of Śrī Kṛṣṇa, who is Śrī Kṛṣṇa Himself, whose complexion is yellow.' Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Eleventh Canto, Fifth Chapter, 32nd verse."

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: And everybody else gets involved deeper and deeper in the yuga.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. So if anyone believes in the śāstras, they should take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is intelligence, to take advantage of authorized scriptures. You'll find in the Bhāgavata, There is a history of Candragupta, and "The Yavanas will become kings." That means English occupation, Mohammedan occupation. Everything is there. And Buddha's appearance, kikaṭeṣu bhaviṣyati. Kikaṭeṣu means in the Bihar province in India. Bhaviṣyati. Because Bhāgavata Purāṇa was written five thousand years ago, and Lord Buddha appeared about 2,600 years ago. So therefore it is stated, bhaviṣyati: "In future, just in the beginning of Kali-yuga, Lord will appear as Buddha. His mother's name will be Añjana, and his business will be to cheat the atheists."

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: That is later invention. Originally Lord Buddha, the statue of Lord Buddha, worshiped all, all over...

Allen Ginsberg: Originally there was no Buddha. There was a wheel for the doctrine, for the dharma. There was a wheel, and then for a parasol.

Prabhupāda: We see from historical, archeological evidences, all over...

Allen Ginsberg: Then, when the Europeans came to India...

Prabhupāda: It is not the question, Europeans.

Allen Ginsberg: Then they made a statue of a human-faced Buddha.

Guest (1): No, no. Buddha's temple was much before then. (indistinct)

Allen Ginsberg: What it had as a...

Guest (1): No. Buddha was a yuga-pracāra. That is very old, old.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Very old.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Guest (1): Because Candragupta's style... (Bengali) And they had many temple...

Prabhupāda: No, Buddha is worshiped by statue. That is historical. That is historical fact. And there are many temples in Burma, China, and in Japan, all these Buddhist countries. But these Buddhist temples began not exactly after Buddha's disappearance. At least, after one thousand years. That is a fact.

Allen Ginsberg: Yes. That's much later.

Prabhupāda: Yes, much later. Because when Buddhism was driven out of India, then in Japan, China, Burma, the Buddhism flourished. Yes. That is after, almost after one thousand years. Otherwise whole India was Buddhist, whole India. Sometimes the Jagannātha Temple... They interpret. Actually it is not. They say that is also Buddhist.

Allen Ginsberg: Which?

Prabhupāda: Jagannātha Temple.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

George Harrison: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is a verse in Bhagavad-gītā,

yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas

itaras tad anuvartate

sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute

lokas tad anuvartate

(BG 3.21)

The idea is that anything which is, I mean to say, accepted by the leading persons, ordinary persons follow them. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas. Śreṣṭhas means leading persons. Ācarati, acts. Whatever leading persons act, people in general follow them. Sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute. If the leading person says, "It is nice. It is all right," the others also accept it. So by the grace of God, Kṛṣṇa, you are leaders. Thousands of young men follow you. They like you. So if you give them something actually nice, the face of the world will change. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, it is not a manufactured new thing. It is, from historical point of view, at least, it is five thousand years old. Because Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means Bhagavad-gītā as it is. And Bhagavad-gītā... Of course, it is supposed to be Indian religious book, but it is not like that.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: Very devout, painstaking. Then it becomes successful. That is called yajña. Tapasya. So Kṛṣṇa says, "The result of the tapasya enjoyer, I am." He is claiming. "The result of your tapasya should come to Me." Then you'll be satisfied. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). People are claiming, "This is my England," and "This is my India," "This is my Germany," "This is my China." No. Everything belongs to God, Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-loka. Not only on this planet. We have divided this planet in so many states. Actually this planet was not divided. From the history of Mahābhārata we understand. This planet, there was only one king, one emperor, in India, Hastinapur. Even up to five thousand years ago, there was only one king, Mahārāja Parīkṣit, one flag. And he came out for touring over his kingdom, and he found somebody near Sindh, a black man killing a cow. And he immediately arrested him: "Oh, in my kingdom you are killing cow?" So actually the whole planet was under one flag, one suzerainty. Gradually it has become small, small, small, small, small. Just like in our, very recently, twenty years ago, India became divided, Pakistan and Hindustan.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: Oh, Hrishikesh. Hrishikesh is also one of the pilgrimage. And there is similarly Kurukṣetra near Delhi. Still that place is there. And that is a place of pilgrimage from the Vedic times. In the Vedas also it is stated, kuru-kṣetre dharmam yajayet. If you want to function in a religious ceremony, just go to Kurukṣetra. So it is a place of pilgrimage. Now the name is there. The adjective dharma-kṣetra, it is from Vedic age. Then the Pāṇḍavas and the Kauravas, they are historical persons. The history is there, Mahābhārata. Then where is the question of interpreting Kurukṣetra as "this body," and the Pāṇḍavas as "the senses"? Where do you get this opportunity to interpret? So these things are going on. But we object, "Why should you interpret in that way when the facts are there?" That means Bhagavad-gītā is very popular book. One has got his own philosophy. He wants to prove it through Bhagavad-gītā. This is going on. There are so many interpretations, 664. Everyone thinks that "I can interpret in my own way." Why? Why this should be? We say, "No. You cannot interpret." Then what is the authority of Bhagavad-gītā? The author of Bhagavad-gītā did not leave it for being interpreted by a third-class man. He is Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord. He said everything clearly.

Discussion about New Vrindaban Gurukula -- December 24, 1969, Boston:

Hayagrīva: All right. Arithmetic should be taught?

Prabhupāda: Arithmetic? Yes. That is necessary.

Hayagrīva: What about any history? World history or American history or American literature or English literature?

Prabhupāda: American history. That's all. They are Americans. They should learn American history. Don't bother much.

Hayagrīva: Any Indian history?

Prabhupāda: Indian history, that... Bhāgavata is all right.

Hayagrīva: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam?

Prabhupāda: That Kurukṣetra battle. That's all. And there are many other stories in the Bhāgavatam. They are all historical.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Haṁsadūta: And here, Kṛṣṇa Book, is the Tenth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Prabhupāda calls it, "Kṛṣṇa: The Supreme Personality of Godhead." And it's full of illustrations which are done by his American students. Just see how beautiful. There are eighty-four full color illustrations that show the pastimes of Kṛṣṇa. So the people in the western world and for the first time in the history of the world will get an idea of who God is, what He looks like, what He does, where He's residing. This is the Kṛṣṇa Book, in two volumes. This is volume number one and this is volume number two. This is just a blueprint. We haven't got a printed copy yet. Then Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, which you must be familiar with, in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya and there are also illustrations although they're not color. They're black and white.

Guest (1): Śrī Tukārāma is disciple of Caitanya.

Prabhupāda: He also went through in Maharastra by His chanting, (indistinct)

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 6, 1971, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Well, this kind of protection, crying at the time of danger, this is experienced from past history also. Just like in the last war in Germany. One German friend told me that naturally all the women went to the church for praying, "My Lord, save my husband. Save my brother." Because all men were in the front, only women were left. So they were praying that "My husband may come back. My brother may come back," or "My father may come back," but nobody came back, and they thought, "Oh, there is no God. Our all prayers are useless." They became atheist.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, you know, what is interesting... As it is here in our country, with our great interest in the history of old, old god, from this point of view our institute translated into Russian and published many, I may say, literary monuments of great Indian culture. I will have a pleasure to present you a copy of a booklet which was written here by me and my colleagues. It's account of Soviet studies of India. And here there is chapter, chapter second, "Studies of Ancient Indian Texts in the U.S.S.R..." You'll be interested to discover, we published not all but some, some in exceptions, Purāṇas. We published most of them, then some parts of Rāmāyaṇa, eight volumes in Russian, Mahābhārata... We have also second edition of Mahābhārata, translated by different people. Kabukare Artha-śāstra(?) also was translated in full and published. Manu-smṛti also translated in full and published with Sanskrit commentaries. And such a great interest... I think that all these publications was sold in a week. Now quite completely out of stock, this... It was impossible to get them in book market after month, such a great interest among reading people here in Moscow and the U.S.S.R. towards ancient Indian culture. And from this point of view we published, I must say, a lot of things, a lot of things.

Prabhupāda: Now, amongst these Purāṇas, the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is called the Mahā-purāṇa.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Kotovsky: ...with the history of Asiatic culture. We have a million...(Aside:) Thank you very much. Here is a sample account of our book. You will find here some account of what has been translated and what else is being done in the history of Indian philosophy, and now with this Indian philosophy, history of Indian religion, and now with this Indian..., what is Hinduism now, just now in India also. It is very simple account of...

Prabhupāda: Hinduism is a very complex term. (laughs)

Prof. Kotovsky: Oh, yes, Hinduism. It is not all... It is really... To my understanding it is not religion from European point of view. It is a really a way of life...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Kotovsky: ...religion, Indian, a way of philosophy, a way of life, a religion, everything...

Prabhupāda: No, this Hinduism, Hindu, this word, is not a Sanskrit word. It is given by the Mohammedans. You know there is a river, Indus, which is..., Sanskrit name is Sindhu. Sindhu.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: But so far... So far we are concerned, this Bhagavad-gītā... It is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). Now, this Bhagavad-gītā was spoken five thousand years ago, and in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that "This system of Bhagavad-gītā was first spoken by Me to the sun-god." So if you take estimation of that period, it comes forty millions of years. So whether the European scholars can trace out the history of at least for five thousand years together, not to speak of forty millions?

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So we have got evidences that his varṇāśrama system is current at least for the five thousand years, varṇāśrama system. And this varṇāśrama system is mentioned in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa also. Varnāśramācaravata puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

(CC Madhya 8.58). Varnāśrama acaravata. So that is stated in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa. And so varṇāśrama-dharma is not a, within any historical period calculated in the modern age. It is natural. And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam the comparison is given, just like in your body, in my body, there are four divisions, the face, facial, or the brain division, and the arms division, the belly division, and the leg division, similarly, by nature's way these four divisions are existing in the social body. You may take history wherever you begin, but this is existing. A class of men, they are considered to be brain. A class of men, they are considered to be the arms, administrators. And a class of men, they are called productive class. So there is no need of tracing the history. It is naturally existing from the day of creation.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: The, the confusion, confusion has come into existence because in India in later days the son of a brāhmaṇa, without having the brahminical qualification, claimed to be brāhmaṇa, and others, out of superstition or traditional way, they were accepted as brāhmaṇa. Therefore the Indian social order has disrupted. But our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are picking up from everywhere brāhmaṇas, everywhere, because the world needs the brain of a brāhmaṇa. Just like here, Mahārāja Parīkṣit, although he was a monarch, he had a body of learned sages and brāhmaṇas to consult, advisory body. It is not that the monarchs were independent. In the history it is found that some of the monarchs were not in order. They were dethroned by the brahminical advisory committee. Although the brāhmaṇas, they did not take part in politics, but they would give advice to the monarch how to, I mean to say, execute the royal function. Just like not, not very old, very, say, about... What is the age of, I mean to say, Asoka? Say about thousands of years ago.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Our predecessor ācārya, Rūpa Gosvāmī, he was finance minister in the Mohammedan government. He was. When he resigned, the Nawab was not very satisfied, that "I cannot relieve you because you are my right hand man. If you resign all of a sudden in this way, then I shall arrest you." There is a long history. So that's a fact. The brāhmaṇas were kept. So the advisory committee of the king... Now, as I was going to speak, Candragupta, Candragupta, just the lastest Hindu king, Candragupta... Candragupta is the age of Alexander the Great because at that time, during Candragupta's..., little before Candragupta, Alexander the Great from Greece, they went to India and conquered some portion. So this Candragupta, when he became emperor, he had his prime minister, Canakya. Perhaps you heard this name, Canak... Ca-na-kya.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: So this Canakya Paṇḍita was a great politician and brāhmaṇa. And as brāhmaṇa, he was vastly learned. He has got some moral instruction. They're very valuable, still going on. In India school children are taught. So this Canakya Paṇḍita, although he was prime minister, he maintained his brahminical spirit. He was not accepting any salary, yes, because for brāhmaṇas to accept salary, it is understood that he becomes a dog. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata. He can advise, but he cannot accept. So he was living in a cottage, but he was prime minister. So this brahminical culture, the brahminical brain, is the standard of Vedic civilization. Just like Manu-smṛti. Manu-smṛti... You do not know. You cannot trace out the history, when Manu-smṛti was written. But Manu-smṛti is considered so perfect that it is the Hindu law. The Hindus are governed by Manu-smṛti. There was no need of passing daily a new law by the legislative assembly to adjust this social order. You see? The law given by Manu was so perfect that it can be applicable for all the time. This is perfect. Tri-kāla-jñāḥ. The word is there, tri-kāla-jñāḥ, past, present, future.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Prohibitive. No illicit sex life, no meat-eating, meat or fish or eggs, no, and no gambling, and no intoxication, including cigarette, tea, coffee. These also we take as intoxicants. So these four principle one has to obey, and let him chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. And by this process only, you'll find, how these boys and girls are improving quickly. Process is very simple. Besides that, we have got books, volumes of books, just like Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā. I have given them. Throughout all these years I have written so many books. And they have got ample stock for reading, the whole life. We have got four hundred pages', big, big books, about one dozen books: Kṛṣṇa in two parts, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in six parts, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, one part, Nectar of Devotion, one part. In this way I am... And these are... We are publishing every month one chapter, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, with this detailed information, giving a heading like this, "The First Step in God Realization." Here is also. The heading is: "Puruṣa-śukta Continued." Puruṣa-śukta is a Vedic stotram. So we are trying to push this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like in your country there is Lenin consciousness, similarly, it is also a different type of consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa is also historical personality as much as Lenin is also historical personality. So His philosophy... Just like you are trying to understand his philosophy, we are trying to understand Kṛṣṇa's philosophy. In this way this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is going on.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, I agree with you that this was addition of late brāhmaṇas who tried to...

Prabhupāda: No, that, that has killed the Indian culture. You see? Otherwise there was no necessity of division of this Pakistan. Not only that, from history, perhaps you know, this whole planet was Bhāratavarṣa, and it was controlled by one flag up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit. Gradually they separated, separated. This is the history. And late, lately they have separated Pakistan. So Bhāratavarṣa is now crippled into a small piece of land. Otherwise this whole... According to our scripture, Vedic scripture, this, this whole planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. Formerly it was named Ilāvṛtavarṣa, but since the Emperor Bhārata ruled over this planet, it is called Bhāratavarṣa from Mahārāja Bhārata. So this culture, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Vedic culture, were existing... Now any religion you take, Christian religion, Mohammedan religion or Buddhist religion, they are, utmost, two thousand, three thousand old, years old. But this Vedic scripture, you cannot trace out where is the beginning, where is the beginning. It is therefore called sanātana, eternal. And this culture is for the whole human society. It is not a departmental religious faith. Religious faith you can change, but real dharma you cannot change.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes. But at the same time, it seems to me that surrender, surrender is to be accompanied with revolt. The history of mankind has proved but by only revolt against some kind of surrender...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Prof. Kotovsky: ...mankind has been developed from medieval age... Like French Revolution, it was revolt against surrender. But this revolt also was surrender itself to the rank and file of the people, their (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Kotovsky: But so it is not enough to put a full stop on surrender.

Prabhupāda: No.

Prof. Kotovsky: Surrender is to be accompanied with revolt against surrender of other...

Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore the surrender will be full stop when the surrender is to Kṛṣṇa.

Television Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: That I am explaining, that it is not the only one. There may be many. But it is practically effective.

Interviewer: Now let's say, in the part of the world where, if I'm understanding your philosophy and your history correctly, in the part of the world where this particular philosophy and this particular belief originated, which is in India, in the Eastern part of the world, at least as we look at it. Is it successful there? Do you have a large following over there?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Recently I was in India. I held two meetings continued for ten days everywhere, and 20 to 30 thousand people were attending daily. So India's position is that they are naturally Kṛṣṇa conscious, but at the present moment by the so-called leaders, they want to replace this Kṛṣṇa consciousness into material consciousness.

Interviewer: Is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness belief or philosophy compatible with the Hindu religion which...

Prabhupāda: With any religion.

Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: That I am explaining, that it is not the only one. There may be many, but it is practically effective.

Interviewer: Now in, let's say in the part, in the part of the world where, if I'm understanding your philosophy and your history correctly, in the part in the world where this particular philosophy and this particular belief originate, which is in India, right, in the, the East, the Eastern part of the world, at least as we look at it...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: ...is it successful there?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Interviewer: Do you have a large following there?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Recently, I was in India. I held two meetings, I mean continued for ten days, everywhere, and twenty to thirty thousand people were attending daily. The India's position is that they're naturally Kṛṣṇa conscious, but, at the present moment, by the so-called leader, they want to replace this Kṛṣṇa consciousness into material consciousness.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Mensa Member: Can I ask one last question? The Bhagavad-gītā—do you accept that as it's historically an historical fact?

Prabhupāda: Truth is historical fact is.

Śyāmasundara: Bhagavad-gītā-did it take place? There was a battlefield of Kurukṣetra.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is historical. Mahābhārata. Mahābhārata means the history of Greater India. Mahābhārata.

Dr. Weir: Mahābhārata.

Prabhupāda: This Mahābhārata means, mahā means greater. Formerly 5,000 years ago, the whole planet was called Bhārata, India. India it is now called. Actually the name is Bhārata. Bhārata is the name given after the reign of Mahārāja, one King Bhārata. He was the ruler, emperor, of the whole world. After his reign this planet is called Bhārata, this whole planet, Mahābhārata. Mahābhārata is Greater India or Greater Bhārata. The headquarter was in India but it was greater, according to Mahābhārata history and this Bhagavad-gītā is given there in the Mahābhārata. Therefore it is history. And actually it is historical because the battlefield is still existing...

Dr. Weir: In the mind...

Śyāmasundara: No, it's there, Kurukṣetra.

Prabhupāda: Kurukṣetra, battlefield.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: Oh, I'm sorry, that's the place (indistinct) I thought you meant the battle was still on.

Prabhupāda: No. Battlefield, where the battle was fought, took place, that is still there. There is a railway station, Kurukṣetra. And that Kurukṣetra is still dharmakṣetra, a religious place. People go on pilgrimage, and in the Vedas also it is stated that Kurukṣetra is (Sanskrit), you perform religious rituals in Kurukṣetra. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre (BG 1.1). It is fact, historical fact. It is not imagination. But many commentators have taken as imagination. Therefore they are misled. It is historical.

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Dr. Singh: There was a lot of chaos even in the old days when these divisions were there.

Prabhupāda: No, not so.

Dr. Singh: If you look at ancient history, it is one long story of massacres and wars and turmoil.

Prabhupāda: No.

Dr. Singh: If you read (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) some thousands of years. But so far our Indian history goes, we had two wars only, big wars. One war was Rāvaṇa and Rāma, another was between the Kurus and the Pāṇḍavas after many millions of years passed.

Dr. Singh: There's only two recorded wars.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. It was recorded. That fighting is going on even in the family. We see between husband and wife also there is sometimes fighting. That is not taken into account. But the major wars in the history of the world... Because India, or Bhāratavarṣa, means the whole world. Now it is cut into pieces. Just like twenty years ago, Pakistan is cut. This planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. Formerly it was known as Ilāvṛtavarṣa. Later on, after the ruling of Mahārāja Bharata... You know Mahārāja Bharata. After his name, this planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. And up to the Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, there was one ruling all over the world. One king in this (indistinct). Then gradually... Why? The culture was lost. The Vedic culture was lost. Up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit, the Vedic culture was kept intact.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:

Śyāmasundara: He would go around and announce.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the town crier. So the town crier began to preach that "No more any sacrifice or yajña. Stop all this nonsense. No more Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." (chuckles) Yes, they... Just like in Russia we are afraid or China, yes. They will immediately arrest. So this declaration was there, public. Na yaṣṭavyaṁ na, no charity, no more charity. Just like government at the present moment, they are allowing charity still, but most of the portion of the income they take away by income tax so that one may not have any power to give in charity. So at the present moment, the government does not declare that charity is illegal, but that time is coming very soon, very soon. As soon as there will be Communist government... Our Indira Gandhi is cooperating with the Russians, and as soon as she is under the control of the Russians, gradually Communism will be introduced. People are afraid of this attempt by Indira Gandhi.

So anyway, these such things were existing formerly also, but they were not very common affair. Sometimes after many, many years, a bad king would come. Throughout the history, at least in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, we find this one king only, Vena, who declared the sacrifice, charity illegal. na yaṣṭavyaṁ na dātavyaṁ na hotavyaṁ dvijāḥ kvacit (SB 4.14.6), by the brāhmaṇas. Just like the other day it was published in the paper that this India spiritual, this is a myth. They are also declaring. Iti nyavārayad dharmaṁ. So execution of religious principle was forbidden, nyavārayat. Bherī-ghoṣeṇa, bherī means bugle, by bugle, sarvaśaḥ, everywhere.

Room Conversation with Gaurachand Gosvami At the Radha-Damodara Temple (Mostly Bengali) -- March 11, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But he says from Buddhism.

Indian man (2): He draws comparisons. He traces the historical background, and then the conditions prevalent..., conditions prevalent particularly in Orissa at that time Vyāsarūpa(?) Gosvāmī lived.

Prabhupāda: One thing is that he says that it is from Buddhism. So where is the authoritative statement in the Buddhism about Pañca-tattva? That he has not mentioned.

Indian man (2): No. He has said in Buddhism you have the principle of pañca-śaktis.

Prabhupāda: Śakti and tattva is not the same thing.

Indian man (2): Well, yes.

Prabhupāda: Śakti is part of tattva.

Conversation with Author -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Because we know our business, therefore we are describing our facts very nicely. You are outsider.

Author: That's right.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So you cannot place our, I mean to say, pros and cons so nicely.

Author: Sir, I think we are talking about two different things. I think you...

Prabhupāda: You wanted little history of this movement? I have given you. That you can create. Yes. How the movement is going on, you can... But we cannot spoil our time in that way, that I describe the biography of a person.

Author: Right.

Prabhupāda: In our books there is no biography of anyone. The biography is not that you... We are interested in the philosophy. The philosophy, vijñāna. It is called vijñāna, science. If you want to know what is the science of this movement, we can spare day and night to convince you. But these are superficials. First of all we say that "I am not, we are not this body." So why we shall be interested with the history of this body?

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura said, jaḍa-vidyā jato māyāra vaibhava tomāra bhajane bādhā, anitya soṁsāre moha janamiyā jībake karaye gādhā. Jaḍa-vidyā, this material advancement, jaḍa vidyā, they are simply stumbling blocks for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The more one is enamored by this so-called material advancement, the more he is disqualified to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because time we have got limited. If we waste our time for so-called material advantages, then we spoil our time. We cannot utilize the time for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which is the necessity of human life. Therefore, in the history of India there is opulence, but that opulence is of different kind. By nature they used to enjoy life—enough jewels, enough gold, enough silk, enough food, enough metals. You see? By natural product. They could find where there is a big hill of gold only. These are there. And actually gold is found in some mine within the material arrangement. Why there should not be any hill of gold? As there are hills of stone, and marble, why not gold? You do not know. Your utensils are only plastic. It is worth nothing. So that was their material advancement. Gold, silver, jewels, corals, sapphire, diamond. Just see Kṛṣṇa's palace described. Not these rascal chairs, cushions, but with ivory, gold. And the cushion is as soft as the foam of milk. (laughter) These things are description there. And the rooms are bedecked with jewels. You don't require this electric light at night. And outside these parijāta flowers. You have read all this?

Pradyumna: Mandara-kuṇḍa.

Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:

Prabhupāda: The Vedānta-sūtra says, athāto brahma jijñāsā. When one has satisfied his senses sufficiently, he is no longer interested in sense gratification. Perhaps you know C.R. Das, the name of C.R. Das in Calcutta. In those days, fifty years ago he was earning fifty thousand rupees per month, but he was not satisfied. And one day he and his wife were sitting together and the wife questioned, "Why do you look so morose? You have got everything at your command. Everyone respects you. You have got money. Everything you have got, education, popularity. Still, why you are unhappy?" So he simply, by chance he saw one mendicant was passing on the street, a sādhu beggar. So he said, "I want to become like him." He said, "I want to be a mendicant like him." So there are many instances in our history. Just like Bhārata Mahārāja. He was young man, twenty-four years old, and emperor of the whole planet, young wife, king, everything. He left everything. Bhārata Mahārāja passed long, long ago. Buddha, Lord Buddha, he was also prince and very young, and he was surrounded with dancing girls. But as soon as he came out on the street, he saw one old man. "What is this?" "This is old man. Everyone has to become old like this." So he became immediately converted to a saintly person. "I must go and meditate and realize myself. Why shall I become old?" (break) I accept a new opportunities to preach it from everything. That is my philosophy.

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. Their policy is that they want to keep the people in that way-rascals and fools—then they'll vote and they'll enjoy the political power. That is their policy. Actually they do not want to see their countrymen elevated good character. They don't want to see. If the people become... Just like the British government in their time, they wanted to give education. Their education means A-B-C-D, half-mediocre, so that the government may be run on. They require clerks, servants, so much, not high education. As soon as there was question of high education, they stopped. And actually it so happened that as soon as the Indian people became highly educated and they learned the history of the world, they kicked them out. So these people, these rascals, Nixon and company, they want to keep the people in ignorance so that they'll get vote and enjoy. If the people become intelligent brāhmaṇas, then immediately he'll be kicked out. What is his value? He has no value. This is policy. They don't want to see that people become elevated in knowledge. That is not their policy. Therefore, they do not agree. Actually they are seeing that "These Hare Kṛṣṇa people, they're so nice character, they're religion, God conscious, so if all people become like this, then where we are?" Because as soon as people become Kṛṣṇa conscious, they'll noncooperate with the slaughterhouse, liquor industry, gambling, illicit sex. They will noncooperate. Then the whole plan of civilization will be collapsed.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Guest (2): Yes, but what I'm trying to get at is that it seems to me that if you carefully look at the world history during the past...

Prabhupāda: World history is that history repeats itself. Everything comes into existence and then vanquished.

Guest (2): No, that's not what I mean. What I meant is that during the past two thousand years, whoever was very powerful was who was doing all these four things which we are, which you are suggesting that we should give up, you see.

Prabhupāda: But I say that my challenge is nobody's powerful. That is my challenge.

Guest (2): I mean...

Prabhupāda: You mean, but that is not the fact.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Therefore their power is finished. If you become sinful, then your power will not exist. Just like Rāvaṇa became powerful. He was so powerful that he dared to take away Sītā. But he also became vanquished. That is the history.

Guest (2): Yes but people say that...

Prabhupāda: People say, that is other... You see the fact. Nobody is powerful; nobody can exist here. For the temporary, say for some years, you may be so-called powerful but it is not powerful. We are concerned with eternal life. We are not interested in the so-called power for a few days. That is not our aim.

Guest (2): Yes, but if we say that everything is destined, like the moment your body is manufactured and...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: The demons. Demons. Demons. Just like Lord Rāmacandra fought with the demons, so similarly, Kṛṣṇa conscious person will fight with the demons. That is already there. Demons and demigod always fight. Devāsura-yuddha, you know? That is history. We don't say that fighting should be stopped. We don't say that. We don't say that becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, nonviolence. That is bogus. In Delhi when there was not..., declaration of war between Pakistan and India, press representative came: "Swamiji, what is your opinion about this fight?" I said, "You must fight." And it was published in the paper. It gave some agitation. They were glad. I said, "You must fight." And that was published in big letters in... So we are not that kind of sādhu and Vaiṣṇava, that we don't take care of practical things. When there is need of fight, we shall fight.

Guest (2): Yes but if that is the case, you see, then the Muslim Mullah, or whatever you may call, says, "Fight all non-Muslims."

Prabhupāda: Well, Muslim... It is not the question of Muslims and Hindus. When there is right cause for fighting...

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: The other day we were talking with some scientists. We came to this conclusion, that the scientists, big scientists, they are simply concerned with the laws of nature, because the laws of nature are very stringent. For example, there is death. Everyone will die. So nobody can check death. However great scientist he may, he cannot stop death. By laws of nature one is becoming old. By your scientific advancement you can stop first of all. So the science means they are trying to overcome the stringent laws of nature, but so far... Not so far—even in the past in the human history they could not. In the present also they are unable. They say in future they will be able. But how we can believe it? Because in the past they could not; in the present also they are unable. How they can overcome the laws of nature in the future? History repeats. Same failure there is (indistinct). Therefore the divine means, as we define, the divine means the controller of the laws of nature. Laws of nature there is, and everyone is under the laws of nature. Nobody can overcome the laws of nature. Just like state laws. Every citizen is bound to abide by the state law. He cannot overcome it. If..., if he overcomes it then, or violates it, the violation of law, and he becomes punishable. Similarly the laws of nature means laws of God. Just like your president is the giver of your state law. Similarly, as soon as we say laws of nature, there must be giver of them. In our śāstra, the Vedic literature, it is said, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma, religion, means the codes given by God, and we have to abide by those laws. When we do not abide by those laws, then we violate the laws of nature, of God, and we become punishable.

Interview -- July 20, 1972, Paris:

Prabhupāda: What do you think? What do you think? I'm happy or unhappy? (indistinct microphone is faulty) ...this wrong conception should be... (indistinct) We should know our real identity. Then everything will be all right. We are going on in the wrong concept of life. Therefore people are not happy. So (indistinct) ...spiritual master... (indistinct) If people accept... (indistinct) They'll be happy.

Frenchman: (indistinct) ...history of many masters and many great teachers such as Jesus Christ and many others... (indistinct) ...come to... (indistinct) ...message. (indistinct) ...today on the same level.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because from God's side there is always an attempt to make the people right. As soon as they're wrongly directed, some messenger comes like Jesus Christ or Buddha or, before Him, Lord Kṛṣṇa. So what we are preaching that is not new. It is God consciousness. And all the great messiahs they came. But the thing is that people are changing in their different education mentalities. So we have to present things in such a way that intelligent person can accept the old teachings in the western countries. Like Lord Jesus Christ... Either they're not being followed or they're not properly understood because in London I saw hundreds of churches are vacant. That means that it's so practical that people have no more interest in Christianity or the Christian people could not convince them of the spiritual necessity of life. Many churches are for sale. That's not a good sign. That means people have lost interest in spiritual life but fortunately the younger generation, they are taking to this spiritual movement.

Interview with the New York Times -- September 2, 1972, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That is nothing. That period of time is relative. As human beings, we live for some time-say for a hundred years—but there are demigods who can live for millions of years. And an ant will live for only a few hours. So this is relative. But time is eternal, and what is happening in so-called human history has no consideration from the viewpoint of eternal time. That is all relative. If there is some catastrophe in ant society, the ants may be very much concerned, but human society does not take any notice of it. Similarly, if a catastrophe occurs in human society, the demigods, who are higher than us, do not consider it. Some birds or cats or dogs may be fighting, and for them it may be a catastrophe, but for us it is nothing. This is the relative world, and we should know that what has happened in this world is not worthy of consideration in terms of universal affairs. Things are coming and going like seasonal changes. Arjuna put this question to Kṛṣṇa: "This is a catastrophe! I have to kill my own men." Although Arjuna believed this to be a catastrophe, Kṛṣṇa likened it to seasonal changes.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: For example, they will say that in early history people used to live in the caves and they used to wear skins.

Prabhupāda: That is your rascal's conception. They used to live in palaces. You are rascal; you do not know the history.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are saying that they used to live..., the history, because they don't have the complete information.

Prabhupāda: No, you are rascal, you have rascal's history. We are not rascal; we have got another history. Why shall I accept your history? You are rascal. You be satisfied with the history that your great grandfather and his father used to live in the cave. But we don't accept. Our forefather used to live in palace. Sixteen thousand palaces, Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) So you rascal, you live with your own history. Why you force your rascaldom history upon us? We are not going to accept. We get history from five thousand years ago. You have no history beyond three thousand years. But we give the shortest history, five thousand years ago, Kṛṣṇa. And how much intelligent from historical point of view Kṛṣṇa was. We can understand from His instruction, Bhagavad-gītā. It is not that because we are Kṛṣṇaites we are canvassing. The whole world is reading Bhagavad-gītā. Why, unless there is intelligence? All scholars, all religionists, all philosophers, they are giving attention to Bhagavad-gītā. So how you can say Kṛṣṇa was living in the cave? Your forefather might be living in a cave, but our forefather did not live in a cave but palaces. Your forefather is a monkey, according to that history.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is why they give all these books. When we started school, we are taught with these..., or we are supplied with this information right from the beginning, the history of mankind and then how this started. So they give all this information.

Prabhupāda: Stone Age. What is that, Stone Age? And before that?

Jayatīrtha: Dinosaurs.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayatīrtha: Before that they had dinosaurs.

Devotee (2): Prehistoric.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Jayatīrtha: Even from a commonsense point of view, it's easy to understand that there's been civilization longer than five thousand years (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Our proposition is the first creature of this universe is Lord Brahmā, who has created the universe. First creature of this universe, the most intelligent person. How we can accept the nonsense that this has developed from stone? (Sanskrit) cakra bhagavān (Sanskrit). Do you know this story?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So what is that progress? The caves are still there, somebody is living here. Then where is the progress? As the caves are still there and somebody is living here and skyscrapers, they are also, similarly, when you (indistinct) the cave (indistinct), there were palaces(?) but we could not see them. Both things are existing, but you studied only one side. Here is your history, see. Kṛṣṇa has sixteen thousand palaces and there was no need of light. Jewels, all jewels. Everything is existing side by side.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So due to a lack of morals, they cannot see the real side.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, they are seeing only the caves. Just like they are going to the moon. They are going to the desert of the moon and they are concluding the moon is a desert. That's all. The other side is prohibited.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they cannot go.

Prabhupāda: They cannot go because according to Vedic description, moon is a planet for demigods. So they have got better brain. So they saw that "These rascals are coming here. All right, let them go to desert side." They have got their machine also. If they have got better brain, they can divert you. Why not think in that way? Their theory is that all other planets there is no life. Only this planet is favored by God, there is life. We say even in the sun planet there is life. (break) (indistinct) Here is your transport(?). We are trying to send back to home, back to Godhead. This is real transport.

Morning Walk -- October 15, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ah!

Śyāmasundara: Aaah.

Prabhupāda: Not like (indistinct). (Hindi)

Śyāmasundara: (to daughter) Sarasvatī, who is that?

Prabhupāda: (Hindi with Indian man)

Śyāmasundara: What is the history of this temple, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: (to Indian man) You say.

Indian: You would like to say in English?

Śyāmasundara: Ah, yes.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Now what is the explanation?

Scholar: Herein we find the history of the Bhagavad-gītā traced from a remote time when it was delivered to the royal order, the king of all planets. This science is especially meant for the perfection of the inhabitants, and therefore, the royal order should understand it in order to be able to rule the citizens and protect them from material bondage to lust. Human life is meant for cultivation of spiritual knowledge, the eternal relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and the executive heads of all states and all planets are obliged to impart this lesson to the citizens by education, culture and devotion. In other words, the executive heads of all states are intended to spread the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that the people may take advantage of this great science and pursue a successful path, utilizing the opportunity of the human form of life...

Prabhupāda: This Vivasvān is the original person of the kṣatriya family, Sūrya-vaṁśa.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: There are kings, son of the Manu, they lived for eight, eleven arbuda years. One arbuda years means ten crores. One crore means ten millions. Ten million. So ten million years makes one crore. Such eleven crore years... There is history (indistinct) one of the Manus, he reigned over for eleven arbuda years. One arbuda means ten millions of years. So Vivasvān, Vivasvān he's living for so many years. Just like Brahmā's age is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā. You find out the verse, sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). What is the Chapter?

Devotee: Chapter 8, 17.

Prabhupāda: Chapter 8, 17th verse.

Devotee: Sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17).

Prabhupāda: Now what is the translation?

Devotee: "By human calculations..."

Prabhupāda: No, no, I want to know this (indistinct).

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: These are all oriental countries. Five thousand years ago this whole planet was India, Bhārata-varṣa. That we get from history, Mahābhārata. This planet name is Bhārata-varṣa.

Devotee (2): After King Parīkṣit, then it divided up, that soon after?

Prabhupāda: Divided? They are also already divided. But the culture diminished. Because the center of culture was India, Delhi. So as the power diminished, the maintenance of the culture diminished, and by contact with other types of aboriginal, they learned eating meat and gradually degraded. And they discovered different kinds of religion because... Just like at the present moment Christians are protesting why there should not be abortion. So they wanted to degraded. So the Indian culture did not allow, so the separate type of religion came out. This is the (indistinct). They wanted, "Why there should not be meat-eating?" But Indian culture would not allow, so they become Mohammedans, they become Christians, like this. Even in India all the..., what are these Mohammedans? The Mohammedans, they are lower class men, less than śūdra. But Hindus, higher class, they would not touch it. But when the Mohammedans, that we will be on equal right, they, there is a (indistinct).

Room Conversation -- March 17, 1973, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: He, because he's a vaikuṇṭha person who could understand that this boy is eager to hear, so he very much appreciated. So when we came back to Allahabad, so Ganeśa Babu, he introduced me, that "Here is a nice devotee." So Prabhupāda immediately replied, "Yes, I have marked him. He does not go away, he hears." This (indistinct), "Yes, I will accept him as disciple." Then I was initiated. In this way our relationship with Gauḍīya Maṭha developed, and gradually as it developed, the other side diminished. Then, there are long history, it will take time, but I had the opportunity of associating with His Holiness. For several years I had the opportunity. Kṛṣṇa and Prabhupāda liked it to prepare me. Śrīdhara Mahārāja lived as a...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: (laughs) ...in my house, some may say, a few years, so naturally we had very intimate talks and he was my good adviser. I took his advice, his instruction very seriously, because from the very beginning I know he's a pure Vaiṣṇava and devotee, and I wanted to associate with him, and try to help him also in so many ways. He also tried to help me, so our relationship is very intimate. After the breakdown of the Gauḍīya Maṭha, I wanted to organize another organization, making Śrīdhara Mahārāja head. And I wanted to mix... At that time Gosvāmī Mahārāja, one of my friend's house at Sealdah... Śrīdhara Mahārāja, you may remember those things. I wanted to organize in so many ways, but somehow or other...

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Darwin says the, he says in his history of the origin, he cannot trace completely.

Prabhupāda: Whatever he has traced, what is the history of that tracing history? Tracing age?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So he started that life started from very primitive, different primitive forms...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. What is the time of Darwin. Which year he was a professor?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The theory started in 1859, about...

Prabhupāda: 1859. So hundred years ago. So all the brains developed within hundred years. All these rascals came out within hundred years. And before that, there was no other rascal. Just see the fun. All the scientific improvement, anthropology, everything came within hundred or two hundred years.

Brahmānanda: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Brahmānanda: Yes. That is their idea.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Before that, there were no brain.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Finished. Everyone in the United Nations pressed on them: "Why you are colonizing? Why you are occupying so much land? You give up." They were obliged. And there was great national movement of Gandhi. So all United Nations pressed that: "They're wanting to avoid you. Why you are, by force, staying there?" Still, they would not go. But when the soldiers began to join the national movement, they gave it up. "Now we cannot rule it." How very nasty! For their political power, they did so many heinous activities in India. That's a great history. For selling their cotton goods, India's weavers were cut this finger so that they cannot weave. This is there in the history.

Brahmānanda: The, the independence movement of Africa, they took great inspiration from Gandhi's movement.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: He was our professor. So he was explaining the different ages of archaeologist, anthropology.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is in philosophy, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No, history.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, history.

Prabhupāda: In my honors class, I had history. He was teaching us history.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What is the standard of Calcutta University, Śrīla Prabhupāda, at the time when Śrīla Prabhupāda was in the University? How was the...

Prabhupāda: Oh, it was nice. Very nice students were coming out.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The moral standard was very good?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We respected our professors like our fathers. The relationship between the student and the professors was very good. I had one Scottish professor, Dr. W.S. Urquhart. He was my nice friend. He was professor of philosophy, psychology. Later on he became vice-chancellor.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So how they are thinking? He does not know, what is the use of thinking rascally? One can think properly if he knows things. If he does not know, then what is the use of thinking? The madman also thinks. What is the use of such thinking? Now our thinking begins from the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says: dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As the body's changing from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, similarly the proprietor of the body will change this body. At the last moment. Death means changing of the body. This is the... Now we can think. When there is proper subject matter, then you can think, how it is, how the changes. You have no proper subject matter, nobody is to guide you. What is the value of your thinking? Like dogs and cats? You do not know how to think. That is possible. How to think, that is possible in human life. So if you don't take up opportunity, how to think, then what is the use of your thinking like cats and dogs? Simply wasting time. The valuable life, you are wasting. Making experiment in the laboratory, nonsensically, that from matter they'll create life. You see. How this nonsense...? What is the use of such thinking? Which is never possible. These rascals are thinking on that, in that way, that they'll in future produce life from matter which has never been possible in the history, past, present and they're thinking; "Oh, bright future." That potter's thinking. Yes.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Juan complex, what is that?

Umāpati: It's a character in Spanish history, fictional history. The perfect lover, the image that all men would like to be, the perfect lover.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So who can be perfect lover than Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa, He loves everyone. Where is that man, he loves everyone? The so-called patriot, they love their countrymen, but kill their animals. Why? Mr. Nixon loves his countrymen. Why not love his country cows? They are also born in the land. They require also. They have right to live, so why they are killed? That is imperfection. And Kṛṣṇa is embracing the calf, come on, and embracing Rādhārāṇī also. That is perfection. That is perfection. Kṛṣṇa talks with birds. These are there. One day on the bank of Yamunā He was talking with a bird. One old lady saw and said, "Oh, He's talking with a bird?" That is perfection.

Room Conversation -- July 9, 1973, London:

Revatīnandana: The scientists, they have a term. Psychologists, they call it the idiot savant. The idiot savant means he's an idiot but he has one particular talent and because of that talent he can get along. Just like sometimes you find an idiot, he can look at a column of figures and he can compute the sum in his head very easily but he can't even understand how to tie his shoes. And I think these scholars are like that, they're actually idiots but they have one talent for Sanskrit or for history and because of that they can get along. They can support their body but otherwise they have no qualifications.

Prabhupāda: Śūdra. Unless he gets that post, he'll starve. He has got some talent in some particular subject but he must get some service. By serving others, he'll be able to utilize his talent and get some money, then he'll eat. This is śūdra's business. Dog's business. Just like a dog unless he has got a nice master, his position is very precarious. A street dog. Nobody will care neither it is (indistinct).

Yogeśvara: You point out in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that they go to school and learn to become Ph.D., then they have to knock on the door for a job and no one will open the door.

Prabhupāda: No vacancy, sir. So just like dog.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Five thousand years ago, it was all perfect. The whole world, this planet, was being ruled by one king. And they were all happy. That is in the history. Five thousand years ago. Maybe less, in three thousand years ago the history was different. The difficulty is that as soon as one is lost of his culture, he becomes an animal. Dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. That is the difference between human being and animal. Human being must be with culture. Animal cannot be cultured. So a human being without culture, he's no better than animal. That culture is lost. They have missed the aim of life.

Revatīnandana: They think they have culture.

Prabhupāda: What is this culture? A human being is killing so many animals, innocent animals, is that culture? They are less than animals. Who kills? The tiger kills, ferocious. A human being killing innocent animals... In Christian religion, therefore: "Thou shall not kill." But they are killing only. Where is the culture? Killing culture. That is not culture. What do you think?

David Wynne: It must be so. Yes.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Guest (4): In Luton, before eighty years... When I was reading the history of Luton, on the page number 176, it was written that there was a great shortage of food before eighty years, and in some place people were cutting their own children and eating.

Prabhupāda: Huh?!

Guest (4): This is written. If you like that book, I can send you. So the non-vegetarians...

Prabhupāda: Cutting their children?!

Guest (4): Cutting their own children, killing them and eat them. In some private places in Luton, where I am residing now. The history of Luton has been published by the County Borough of Luton. The non-vegetarian food leaved them to such an extent that they couldn't stay without the meat. And they had to cut their own children. Now we are vegetarian. I have never tasted any meat. I don't know the taste of it. Still. we all exist on vegetables, all sorts of vegetables.

Prabhupāda: The same thing happened in Kanpur in a hotel. One man was eating meat, and he found a little finger...

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Vidura was neutral. He left home when he understood that "Fighting is now inevitable. They'll fight. Why shall I remain here?" He left home. And Kṛṣṇa also said that "I will not fight. I'll not fight because this is family quarrel. I am known to every one of you. We are related. So I cannot take this side or that side. I may be..." He divided... He, by tricks... His soldiers one side, and He Himself one side. So Duryodhana preferred, Duryodhana preferred His soldiers, that "Why shall I take this one man. I'll take His soldiers." And Arjuna said, "No, I want Kṛṣṇa." So Kṛṣṇa said, "Although I'm going to your side, but I'll not fight. Mind that." And, "Never mind, You don't fight." Mahābhārata is very nice. "Greater India." Mahābhārata means "The History of Greater India." Mahābhārata. Mahā means "greater."

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: And that was written for strī-śūdra-dvija-bandhūnām (SB 1.4.25). Mahābhārata was written by... This is history, but it was written by Vyāsadeva for woman, strī, śūdra and dvija-bandhu. Dvija-bandhu means those who are born in high family, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, but they are not cultured as their forefathers. They are called dvija-bandhu. And they are compared with śūdras. So strī-śūdra-dvija-bandhūnām. For these women, śūdra and dvija-bandhu, Mahābhārata is Vedic literature. But for their understanding... They could not understand the Vedic language directly. Therefore Mahābhārata was written. And in Mahābhārata he gave the topics, Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna, Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā is the essence of all Vedic literatures.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests and Devotees -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: He must be. So many attacks. How he can tolerate. He's in the post. This is happening.

Kṛṣṇa-bhāminī: This idea of democracy came at a time in French history called the Period of Enlightenment, and it was introduced by...

Prabhupāda: Hm? Democracy?

Haṁsadūta: Democracy was first introduced in an age which they call the Age of Enlightenment in French history.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: We are preaching the same thing. The same old thing. Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). "You just surrender unto Me." Kṛṣṇa said that "Surrender unto Me," and we are speaking, "Surrender unto Kṛṣṇa;" same thing. Kṛṣṇa said that "I am the origin of everything." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). We are speaking the same thing, that the original source of everything is Kṛṣṇa. We are challenging the scientists also. They are of opinion that "Life has come from matter," and we are challenging, "No, life and matter, both have come from life." This is our challenge. So originally life, originally Kṛṣṇa, life. Not matter. Matter has come subsequently. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not a new movement. It is the old movement. At least, historically, five thousand years old. And we have got so many books. We have... Out of sixty volumes, we have published only about twelve volumes. So it's a great literature, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So everything is there; nothing new. We haven't got to make a new system of religion. It is already there. Simply people may kindly understand it. That is our proposition.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Four hundred years ago the land was there. They, these Europeans, migrated there. Now they are proprietor. So four hundred years ago, who was the proprietor. In this way, trace history. The land is there, the ocean is there, everything is there. We sometimes claim that "I am the proprietor," "We are the proprietor," but this is lying there. Who is actually the proprietor? Actually proprietor is God, Kṛṣṇa. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything is owned by the supreme īśvara. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). So if we study scrutinizingly, then we'll find God is the proprietor actually. He is the creator; therefore He is the proprietor. And because He is the proprietor, He is friend of all. Actually. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Īśvara is situated in everyone's heart as Paramātmā, and He's giving us good counsel. We are not abiding by that. We are disobeying. Therefore we are suffering. Otherwise, He's giving us good counsel, good advice. So this formula, that bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām... (BG 5.29). So if we accept God, or Kṛṣṇa, as the supreme friend, then whatever advice He'll give me, if we follow, then I am happy. There is no difficulty. He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). If we do that, we become happy. Where is the difficulty? From historical point of view... Of course, no, I mean to say, religious literature is older than Bhagavad-gītā. It was spoken by the Supreme Lord personally five thousand years ago.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: And yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). And when we regularly perform yajña, then there is regular cloud in the sky. And when there is cloud in the sky, there is regular rainfall, and when there is regular rainfall, there is sufficient production of food grains, fruits and other vegetables so that both the animal and the human beings, they eat sufficiently, they grow strength, they become happy and again perform yajña. And the animals supply, the cow supplies milk. In this way, the whole society becomes happy. These are the prescriptions, or directions, given by the Vedic literature. So if people take advantage of this instruction, as you have mentioned in your article "The Great Seers," so if we follow their instruction, the whole history of the human being can be changed. There is no difficulty. But whether the people will accept or not, that is the business of the leaders of the society. So far I think that British people, they organized very nicely the British Empire, but some way or other, it is now lost. But still, the British prestige can be elevated if actually, according to the Vedic instruction, you try to make your social construction, the political institution and economic development... Every direction is there. So you are all great historians. And there are many politicians. If you take this instruction of the Vedas little seriously, you can make your state an ideal state, and people are still ready to follow you. Then the whole history of the world will change. And if you people agree, then I can help you. I can help.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: What is your view about connection of the old Greeks with India?

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: About the Greeks in India?

Prabhupāda: Greek, Greek people and Indian.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: For several centuries they had a very important part in Indian history. Very important.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: A number of them changed their religion and adopted Indian religion, didn't they. Yes.

Prabhupāda: No, they... So far our Mahābhārata is concerned, we understand that the Greek people came from India.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Originally.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Names are Hindu. There Garuḍa, Garuḍa. The airway is Garuḍa. Garuḍa is the carrier of Viṣṇu.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: I've seen their shadow plays, and all the subjects and the heroes are from the Indian history, the Indian epics, not from Muslim. So...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: They all have two names. They have a Sanskrit name and an Arabic name, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes. I've also been in ...

Prabhupāda: And Java. Java, they are Hindus. Still. In Indonesia also, there are many Hindus. They have got their Vedic way of worship. They accept Viṣṇu.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: You were with me in Indonesia?

Devotee: No.

Śyāmasundara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is your view of the future, the history, the future history?

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is there, described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The, the governmental power will go to the rascals and thieves, rogues. And their only business will be how to exploit the people. So one side, by not sufficient rain, there will be scarcity of foodstuff, and one side, the government will tax like anything. In this way, people will be so much harassed that they will give up their hearth and home and go to the forest.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This will be done in Kali-yuga. And gradually, there will be no supply of grains. Especially rice, wheat, sugar, milk, these things will be finished. So people will be obliged to take flesh. These are all stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Śyāmasundara: Does this correspond, Mr. Toynbee, with your view of the future history?

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the future history. You can predict in your writings. Yes.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: With more people in politics in India, are they able to keep the Vedic ideal? Or...?

Prabhupāda: No, no. They have given up.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: No.

Prabhupāda: The politicians, they (say that) "These books are useless. Throw them in the water." They say like that publicly. They are not interested. Rather, this movement, as I have now began with my disciples, European, American boys, they're... They are not very satisfied, the present politicians. They are not very satisfied. They don't want. Everywhere this, more or less the same mentality, but it is our duty on behalf of Kṛṣṇa to push on this movement. So we are doing, and we are getting response. It is not without response. It will increase. That is also stated, that for ten thousand years Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will increase.

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Schumacher: But I would hesitate a long, long time before I would make meat-eating the touchstone on which I would judge a Jesuit. I don't think I could see such a central position. And the evils that are going on that have to be fought are, in comparison with meat-eating, gigantic. And therefore, to refuse to accept that even a meat-eating Jesuit may be a far better man than a vegetarian who is engaged in all sorts of nefarious practices, I think one should be a bit careful. If you come out of a civilization where this has been customary all, all throughout history...

Haṁsadūta: Therefore all throughout history...

Schumacher: Yes, I know. I haven't...

Haṁsadūta: ...you haven't... Why hasn't there been peace in our civilization? Because we're practicing these four things: meat..., animal killing, intoxication, illicit sex life and gambling. According to Vedic scripture, these four activities are the sum and substance of sinful life, and sinful life means...

Prabhupāda: Pollution.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Dr. Inger: Well, that's a very, very important question. I think that the real trouble is that all of them are bureaucrats, sitting in offices, creating more jobs for other officers. I was one of the earliest members. I came when Dr. Radhakrishnan was the, was our president. And... At the very early stage. In those days, there was that feeling, that some importance should be given, but because it became a governmental organization, because every religion thinks that they should have a part to play in it, what they did was, they brought out, in ten volumes, a scientific and cultural history of mankind. But it has, it's only incidentally philosophy, only incidentally religion. The only religious books that have come out are those that have been translated. Old books like the second book to the East, for instance. Max Muller's books. And they have been reprinted. And occasionally a few translations have been done from Tulasidāsa or some other philosophers, rewritten, like Śaṅkara later on. But, but all of those have been done because somebody else has commissioned them. But otherwise, there isn't... Except they have had some meetings in various placed. But at none of these meetings do they really discuss the problem that of the, well occasional people, occasional philosophers, they never really discuss that. I think because the word, religion, I think probably is the stumbling block...

Prabhupāda: No, apart from religion. Religion may be sentiment or some emotion. That is another thing.

Dr. Inger: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But we can ask what is this cosmic manifestation, what is the purpose of this, who created, how it is created. Are they not scientific?

Dr. Inger: Yes.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Not Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Inger: They haven't. Not so far. Because from their point of view they have to prove the dates, historical dates, how many centuries, and so forth.

Prabhupāda: It is there in the śāstras.

Dr. Inger: I know. But so... If one can put it that way, then somebody has to submit that we are going to celebrate the three thousand anniversary, or four thousand anniversary, and... But no such step has been taken. But such an idea can be proposed.

Prabhupāda: No, suppose the United Nations is the organization of the whole human society, so if I ask the United Nations, as an organization that: "What is the purpose of this cosmic manifestation?" That is a fact. There is a cosmic manifestation. The scientists, they are also trying to understand. So there are so many scientists, philosophers, what is their answer? Suppose I am inquisitive to know something. So where shall I inquire?

Discussion about Guru Maharaji -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So he should be insulted everywhere. Our men should go and do that, pie. (laughter) And when you have to (indistinct) He's God. Why can't you protect. He should have been killed. We have no such power. Otherwise, I would have obliged to kill him. Anyone says God, he should be killed. That is the example given by Kṛṣṇa. He should be killed. No other remedy. Only kill him. That's all. Then this false propaganda will stop. Just like the Christians said: Jesus Christ, God. And how God can be killed by crucification? We do not discuss this point, but actually this is the fact. He was empowered man, that we can understand. But we cannot accept him God. In our history, God is never killed. God kills others. That we have got evidence. And ordinary men, they took him, and crucified, and nobody, other, of the opposite party was killed. So that makes a little difference. So far son of God, that we accept. Everyone is son of God. We accept him śaktyāveśa avatāra, a living entity especially powered from God. That we can accept. So son of God we can accept. That is another thing. And where is the evidence in the śāstras that God was killed? Big, big giant, God fought them and killed them. Rāvaṇa, Hiraṇyakaśipu, Kaṁsa.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: But not a single soul became a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. There is no history. Yes. So far we know, that by reading Bhagavad-gītā, it is meant for making a person devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). But before my coming here, so many swamis came, and they preached on Bhagavad-gītā, so many scholars came, but not a single soul became a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa.

Professor: Yes, because other... So, for instance, you have the Ramakrishna Mission...

Prabhupāda: What the Ramakrishna mission has done?

Professor: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Ramakrishna mission has done this, that they have learned to drink wine and eat meat, that's all, from the Western countries. That's all.

Room Conversation with Graham Hill Former World Champion Race Car Driver -- London, August 26, 1973:

Prabhupāda: Just like, don't mind, when you drive your car, it is not a very good position. (laughter) Yes. But you are taking that risk for winning over. But the position is not very good. At any moment there can be accident. So similarly, we are trying to achieve some goal of life, every one of us—there are so many varieties of living entities—with the risk of life and death, old age and disease. But if we know what is our actual aim of life... The actual aim of life should be back to home, back to Godhead. Then this human form of life is successful. Just like your son. If he goes out independent. Now he is under father's protection, he is very happy. But if he declares his independence... Just like Śyāmasundara. He is very rich man's son. His father, I met him. His father is a big lawyer, big businessman. But he declared independence. And I know his life history, how much he had to go through so many tribulations. Similarly, we are also sons of God. We have declared independence and we are going through so many chapters of life and death in different... Now we have got... Suppose you have got now a nice Englishman's body but next body you do not know what kind of body you are going to get. That will depend on your karma and desire.

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Veda means not religion, Veda means knowledge. So if you can trace out the history of knowledge, then you can trace out what is the date of Veda. Can you trace out? When...? Which is the date when knowledge began. Can you trace out?

David Lawrence: I wouldn't think they could.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

David Lawrence: I wouldn't think they could.

Prabhupāda: So how you can trace out the history of Vedas? Vedas means knowledge. Vedas means knowledge. So first of all find out from which date knowledge began. Then you find out the date of the Vedas.

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Those who know Sanskrit, they know what is the meaning of Veda. Veda means knowledge. Vetti veda-vid jñāne. Jñāna means knowledge. That means the history of Veda means from the date of creation of this material world. Now find out the date of creation of the material world. Approximately, nobody can give what is the date of. We can, we cannot... Date of Brahmā, he got the, first of all, the Vedic knowledge. Now, one day of Brahmā you cannot calculate. One day of Brahmā. And the... When Brahmā's night is there, there is devastation up to some extent. So again in the daytime of Brahmā, that creation takes place. There are two kinds of devastation. One devastation is at the night of Brahmā and one final devastation is the whole cosmic manifestation finished. So these teeny people, they are after the dates of Vedas, and that is ludicrous, that is...(laughs) Just like there are many microbes, they grow in the evening and die just in the day beginning. So whole night is their span of life. So our life is like that. What history you can write? Therefore, we receive Vedic knowledge from the authorities. And what is the value of these dates?

David Lawrence: (laughs) Indeed. I mean it's the sort of thing that Western scholars excel in, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: Suppose if you try to trace out when the human being began calling "mother." Can you trace out the history?

Śyāmasundara: They try to take away from the Vedas by making it seem very young so that the Bible is older. They think that Vedas came from Bible, many scholars.

Prabhupāda: Oh? These rascals think like that?

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So one should transcend these, what is called, historical references. They calculate in Darwin's theory.

David Lawrence: Darwin's theory's out now isn't it? (laughs) It's sort of old fashioned now. They dispense with these theories as quickly as most people do their newspaper each day.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.

David Lawrence: One day it's in, and the next day it's out. And while it's in, everybody claps and applauds. One or two other points, perhaps I can raise one or two of them. Some of them are longer in fact. An interesting thing that came out of my study of the Christian, or certainly the Jewish tradition, and I wondered, really, on your views on this, whether it relates at all to the Indian one. It seems when you get to the really high spot of Jewish religion, which many people consider the prophets of Judah...,

Prabhupāda: What is their high spot?

David Lawrence: Well, exactly,(laughs) that is, in inverted commas.

Prabhupāda: They are rotting in the lowest spot, still. What is their high spot?

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: This is Vedic knowledge. So you'll get everything perfect. Therefore, how there can be any history? That is the difficulty. We are speaking everything, of the spiritual. Therefore, it is sometimes very difficult for the gross materialist. They are so dull-headed, they cannot understand.

David Lawrence: The British Association which is, many people regard an irrelevant bunch of scientists, who meet once a year, one of the good speeches was in fact given on the question of the value of human life. And one of the points was made there by somebody who has had to talk to these girls who come in to have abortions, some cases their third and fourth abortion, and they're not married of course. And saying that many of the girls regard an abortion in the same way as they regard a shampoo for their hair.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Here, the so-called love is lust only. It is going on in the name of love. Actually it is not love. And because it is not love, therefore such kind of love does not continue very long. It breaks.

David Lawrence: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But we don't find in the history of spiritual world the love between the gopīs and Kṛṣṇa broke at any time. That is the difference.

David Lawrence: Yes,yes. Whereas one in three of the Western marriages, so they say, is destined to break.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

David Lawrence: That's what they say now, one in three. It's the latest figures.

Prabhupāda: The same thing is there, but they are dragging this lusty affairs to Kṛṣṇa. Generally, the rascals, they paint Kṛṣṇa's picture with gopīs so that their lusty activities may be supported—Kṛṣṇa also had like that. This is misunderstanding. They do not take into calculation: Here, so-called love is lust and it breaks. But in the gopīs' love with Kṛṣṇa there is no breaking but increasing of love. So how they can compare Kṛṣṇa's love with gopīs with these lusty affairs?

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because everyone has speculated in his own way. Therefore we have presented Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. And if you have got time, we can read some of the portions, how we have presented as it is. So people are liking this As It Is. Otherwise, Bhagavad-gītā is well-known in the western country, all over Europe. But because it was not presented as it is, there was not a single devotee of Kṛṣṇa. You find out, the whole history. Bhagavad-gītā is meant for making the reader a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Is it not?

Ambassador: That's true.

Prabhupāda: Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So who can become fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa unless he's a devotee? So it is a transaction between God and His devotee. That's a fact. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). These are the clear declaration. He's asking everyone, "Just become My devotee. Always think of Me. Offer Me obeisances." Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī. "Worship Me." Māṁ namaskuru. He, He is deprecating the worship of demigods. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ. Find out this verse. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante 'nya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām: (BG 7.23) "Less intelligent persons, they simply worship the demigods." This is the statement.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Ambassador: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Our history, we find so many gṛhasthas, householder, kings, rājarṣi. In the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Rājā, king, at the same time, ṛṣi. This was the king. Just like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. Rājarṣi. He's a king, but ṛṣi. You read that portion. Yes. The government of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, how they were happy, just see. Kāmam, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). Parjanya. Parjanya means cloud, yes. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). The, all our necessities come from the rain. Now there is scarcity of rain. What the government can do or the scientists can do? And if there is no rain, then all your plan is finished.

Ambassador: Yes, that's true.

Prabhupāda: All his plan is finished.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: And these so-called scientists will reply: "Yes, we are trying. In future..." In future, everyone can expect future. But the hearsay is that: "Trust no future, however pleasant." Why future? In past we could not do. At present we cannot not do. What is the guarantee that in future we'll be able to do? There is no history that anyone has produced life from chemicals. What do your, what do you think, that life is a product of chemicals? Do you mean to say?

Dr. Hauser: That is what I've been taught. Yes. About the evolution of the earth. And...

Prabhupāda: Therefore, if...

Dr. Hauser: ...all the different stages of life.

Prabhupāda: Do you think that's a fact...

Dr. Hauser: It's not a fact. I don't know whether it's a fact. I... But that's...

Prabhupāda: Then that means illusioned. You are not confident, but you accept that theory. This is illusion.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Dr. Hauser: But somewhere... If I can... But in this, there is also the creation of life, when...

Prabhupāda: Where is that evidence, creation of life from matter? Is there any evidence in the history?

Dr. Hauser: No, but as we know, the evolution of life has gone through different stages of... How do you...?

Prabhupāda: Darwin's theory. Do you mean to say, Darwin's theory?

Dr. Hauser: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. Darwin was a number-one nonsense. Yes. Rascal. He has confused the whole world.

Dr. Hauser: Hmm. Why...?

Prabhupāda: Evolution of matter. Matter cannot evolve. That is not possible.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Up to my I.A., I regularly studied Sanskrit, and in my B. A., I gave up Sanskrit. I read history. (laughs) No. Not in B.A. B.A., my combination was economics and philosophy. In I.A. I was intermediate, I.A. I had history and Sanskrit.

Prof. Gombrich: That was at Calcutta University?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Calcutta University, Scottish Church's College.

Prof. Gombrich: Oh, I see.

Prabhupāda: You have been in Calcutta?

Prof. Gombrich: Yes, I have.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you know Scottish Church's College?

Prof. Gombrich: I'm afraid not. No.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Prof. Gombrich: No, I'm afraid I've only been to Presidency.

Prabhupāda: Presidency?

Prof. Gombrich: Yes.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Guest (1) (Indian man): Lord Brahmā also prays for to be born into Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Yes yes. Because he will try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Even Lord Brahmā could not understand Kṛṣṇa. (laughs) No. (Hindi) Therefore, to understand Kṛṣṇa he desired to take birth in Vṛndāvana.

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ

(BG 7.3)

Out of many millions of persons, they try to understand what is the perfection of life, and out of many such millions of persons who are in the line of understanding perfection of life, some of them or some one may understand Kṛṣṇa. Muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ. Just like Brahmā was also bewildered whether Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Brahmā, the first creature of this universe, he's also... muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ. Therefore we should take advantage of this opportunity. Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā, about Himself. That is the highest perfection of life, simply to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is. As spoken by Kṛṣṇa. Then one's life is perfect. But unfortunately, so many scholars and swamis, they are misinterpreting Kṛṣṇa and Bhagavad-gītā. The people are placed in darkness. They are already in darkness. By misinterpretation, they are putting them in darkness. They cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. For practical example you can see in European countries the Bhagavad-gītā was being studied at least for two hundred, three hundred years, but there was not a single devotee of Kṛṣṇa, not even. Within the history.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He also knows. Why this disappointment?

Banker: We have had a long history of debate in America over wealth. We have had one group, the fundamentalist Protestants, who argue that... Most of them are poor, and they feel very guilty if they have money. And then you have another group of Protestants, the Gospel of Wealth Protestants, who say that if you are truly holy, then it is better that the money be entrusted to your hands than to a man who is unholy. And then you have still another group that regards money as an end in itself, rather than a means to, committing you to do other things, And this confuses people in America. Your parents will be one thing, you'll be another. In my case, my mother is a Gospel of Poverty person. Blessed are the poor. She thinks you won't get into heaven unless you are poor. And I'm in the Gospel of Wealth category. (laughter) And you just select your own philosophy along the way. Carnegie was in that philosophy. He even wrote a book about it a one hundred years ago. The steel Carnegie, Carnegie steel.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Carnegie's name I know.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi:

Śrutakīrti: "Purport: As far as the duties of mankind are concerned. There are innumerable duties. Every man is duty-bound, not only to his parents, family members, society, country, humanity, other living beings, the demigods, etc., but also to the great philosophers, poets, scientists etc. It is enjoined in the scriptures that one can relinquish all such duties and surrender unto the service of the Lord. So if one does so and becomes successful in the discharge of his devotional service unto the Lord, it is well and good. But it so happens sometimes that one surrenders himself unto the service of the Lord by some temporary sentiment and in the long run, due to so many other reasons, he falls down from the path of service by undesirable association. There are so many instances of this in the histories. Bharata Mahārāja was obliged to take his birth as a stag due to his intimate attachment to a stag. He thought of this stag when he died. As such, in the next birth he became a stag, although he did not forget the incidents of his previous birth. Similarly Citraketu also fell down due to his offense..."

Prabhupāda: Therefore we forbid to take to the karmī's life. Because at the time of death, if he remains a karmī, then he'll have to take birth as a karmī. That is the risk. So this regulated life, holding class, chanting, that will not make us fall down. That is essential. It is essential, regulate, to follow the regulative principles, chanting sixteen rounds, holding class. You can do anything, but this will keep us alive to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness platform. If you neglect that, then that is very risky. Even if you get next life birth in a rich man's family, that is not guarantee. Because generally, rich man's sons, they go astray.

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is rascal. No, no. You have got history for billions of years?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What is that history? We have got history that Brahmā was the first creation, and from Brahmā... Brahmā created this universe.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are saying that before, it was all gaseous dust particles and some gaseous materials which were floating and in due course it condensed and then it formed this...

Prabhupāda: So wherefrom the gas came? That they do not know.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, they say it was just floating.

Prabhupāda: Floating where. Wherefrom the sky came? They are all nonsense. Simply speculating and consuming cheap money from the government. That's all. This is their business. The government is exacting taxes from the hard-working men, and these rascals are devouring this money. That's all. And making theories. That's all.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Therefore He is there. He is God, the superexcellent.

Karandhara: But they say He never did that. That's impossible.

Prabhupāda: He did it. There is a mention in the history.

Karandhara: George Washington didn't do anything which was out out out of the conception of belief.

Prabhupāda: No, out of conception, he had no power to do it. He had no power to do it.

Hṛdayānanda: Who's conception?

Karandhara: Their conception.

Prabhupāda: No, he had no power to do that, neither you have the power. That is the difference between you and God.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Yaśomatīnandana: One who is learning by seeing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. One who knows that these material things, it has got a beginning and it has got an end... In every day we see that. Even with our body we see that it has a beginning and it has an end. I have seen my father was born and he died. So I am also born; I'll also die. My son is also born; my son will die. This is real experience. But if somebody says that "I shall not die. We are trying to become immortal," so that is foolishness. That is foolishness. By experience from time immemorial, historical reference, there is no such thing as immortality. But if somebody says, "By chemical evolution we shall become immortal..." Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness proposition is that human life is meant for factual knowledge or ultimate knowledge. But these rascals are checking that progress. That means the prerogative of human life is being denied to the human society. So this kind of hindrances should be stopped, either by soliciting or even by force, because the human society is being ruined. These things have to be stopped. Therefore I was inquiring that "Why American went to Vietnam?" To stop communism, but that sort of stopping will not make any solution. We have to stop demoniac civilization. Then the human society will be happy and in normal condition.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: This science should be understood, what is God and what is trust. That you discuss thoroughly, threadbare. Otherwise how you will be able to preach? Ask all questions. I will answer. But you must be thoroughly conversant that there is need of God and everyone must trust in God. This is the standard of civilization. God is there. Without God, there cannot be anything existing. This is first point. And we must trust in God. Those who are speaking, "In God we trust," at least they believe that there is God. Now, where is God, how He is living, what He is doing, this must be known. Just like in your America, there is need of a president. But those who are advanced in American history, they must know what is that president, what is his position, what is the constitution. That is, means perfect knowledge must be there about God, and perfect knowledge how to trust Him. This is now required. Otherwise the world is going to... Not that theologicians' speculation on God. First thing is, there is God. Now, how people can be convinced that there is God? Tell me. Speak.

Morning Walk -- December 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But in happiness they forget. (aside:) Don't keep so near.

Prajāpati: Without knowledge their sentiment is just worthless.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: That's a fact. In American history, whenever there was economic prosperity, always increase in sense gratification. Historically speaking, in America, whenever there was increase in prosperity, there was a trend towards irreligion and sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: That is everywhere. Luxury leads to poverty. (break) ...a living man, but if you are actually interested, why don't you do it, organized way. Sentiment, it is good, but if you do not understand the science, sentiment may be for the time being. Sentiment is sentiment. That will not act. They are admitting sinful activities?

Prajāpati: Yes, they are admitting that... They are an abyss of moral decay.

Prabhupāda: So let them know what are the sinful activities. These are the sinful activities. Close all the slaughterhouses. Close all these illicit sex brothel houses, and close the liquor houses.

Morning Walk -- December 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Communists? Students are under Communistic? What the Communists preaches? There is no God?

Jagajjīvana: Yes. And that in this life you can become perfect. There can be a perfect man without Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Ah, so who has become that perfect man? Amongst your Communists? The Stalin is considered the greatest criminal in the world, in the history, Stalin. So how he is perfect man? If he is the greatest criminal?

Jagajjīvana: (break) Mostly Spanish countries. (break) Another town in Puerto Rico we have a center there also.

Prabhupāda: Where it is?

Jagajjīvana: That is on the other side of the island, on Puerto Rico.

Prabhupāda: Rūpānuga Mahārāja went there?

Jagajjīvana: Yes. And...

Prabhupāda: He can speak in Spanish?

Jagajjīvana: No.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Wolfe, he was telling me that, because I was telling him that I did not believe in astrology. Then one day Śrīla Prabhupāda was talking on astrology. Then Wolfe said, "If Śrīla Prabhupāda said, then you believe. And if it is not said by Śrīla Prabhupāda, you don't believe."

Prabhupāda: No. We believe in astrology. But because it is a difficult science, people do not understand it properly. That is another thing. In my practical life I see. In my horoscope, everything is written, what I am doing. Everything is written. So...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That would be called like genius. Sometimes. If somebody can predict what is going to happen in the future, can be, just like, taken...

Prabhupāda: No, these astrologers can give everyone exact, the history of life, what is going to happen, what happened.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But it is true, though Śrīla Prabhupāda, in our family life, when we want to do something, they always go to a...

Prabhupāda: Astrologer. Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: This Subhash Chandra Bose. And he organized the INA, Indian National Army. So when this Indian National Army was organized and the Britishers... They were great politicians. They saw, "Now the army is going to national movement. We cannot be." Then they left. Because it was not possible. They were maintaining British Empire with Indian money, Indian men. You see? They did not conquer by their British soldiers all round the Far East, Burma and the Mesopotamia, and the Egypt. That was Indian army, the Sikh soldiers and the Gurkha soldiers, and Indian money. On the pretext that "For Indian protection, we are maintaining this army." Actually, they were expanding their empire. Africa, Burma. And when they saw that "India is lost," voluntarily they liquidated all others. Went back... Back to home, back to Godhead. (devotees laugh) So in politics this is nonsense, non-violence. It is nonsense, cowardism. In politics in sweet words you cannot get. There must be fight, arms. That is army. "If you don't agree, then fist." That is politics. There must be violence. Otherwise you cannot control. When there is educated good men, then you can argue. But when people are ruffians, there is no question of good... Argumentum vaculum, I told you the other day... (break) ...in the beginning of creation, the fight between the demons and the demigods, devāsura-yuddha. That is always there. In the European history, without revolution, no order changes. Even the Russian Revolution was there. French revolution was there. In England, Cromwell? Cromwell? Cromwell Revolution?

Nara-nārāyaṇa: Yes.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 16, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Oh. That is our house.

Bali Mardana: I think it is. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...in the history there is no such action.

Devotee: There was one time on one of the other islands. It fell on someone, some child.

Bali Mardana: Sometimes during a storm it may be loosened.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing.

Satsvarūpa: Kṛṣṇa lets them fall in such a way that people don't get hurt.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...grow fruit, eh? (break) And if the fruit is green, it will never fall. Therefore when the fruits are grown, green, take it down. But that they do not know.

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: That is your concoction. We get so many literatures. Huh? The Bhāgavata literature, five thousand years old. You have no history beyond three thousand years. Neither even at the present moment you have got such nice literature. When you say that people are very much advanced, who has produced such literature? Where is a book like Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or Bhagavad-gītā, whole world? If you say that this book was written, say 1,500 years ago, but where is a similar literature in any other part of the world? Eh? Is there a similar literature? Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa...

Satsvarūpa: When Darwin's theory was first being taught in America, there was opposition from the Christians, and there was a famous court trial called the Scopes case, and the Bible was used to, against this so-called scientific theory. But the Bible is so inadequate that they lost.

Prabhupāda: Yeah, Bible cannot be because it is itself unscientific.

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Bali Mardana: No one has any idea what is God. So he, the people... they say, "Here is God", and no no can disprove it, 'cause they have no idea what is God.

Prabhupāda: No, no, here is the idea. God must be the supreme authority. So let him prove that he is the supreme authority. He's checked by the custom authority and he's God? He goes to the hospital and he's God? Here is the definition of God, that "There is no more superior authority than Me." And Kṛṣṇa proved. History says that there was no more superior authority than Kṛṣṇa. Then let him prove that first.

Satsvarūpa: When the customs authorities tried to stop Kṛṣṇa in Mathurā, He cut off their heads. They said, "Where are you going with that cloth?"

Prabhupāda: No, that is supreme authority. Supreme authority means nobody can check. That is supreme authority. But he is checked in so many ways.

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Suppose I am writing books. In future if you could not find my bones and fossils, but the books will prove what I was. So we have got the books. That is the real bones and fossils.

Bali Mardana: They try to disprove...

Prabhupāda: They cannot find out bones and fossils of Kṛṣṇa. Now, why they accept?

Satsvarūpa: Nobody agreed... (tape garbled)

Prabhupāda: You have to accept authority... (break) ...authority of yourself, we have got authority also. We have got authority. We have got our books... (break) ...that Kali-yuga has begun five thousand years but you say they do not believe in... (break) ...these rascals. Although it is history... (end)

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ahaituky apratihatā. This is the description. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje, ahaituky apratihatā (SB 1.2.6). One who follows actually. Just like we are following some principles. It cannot be checked by anyone. We do not accept anyone.

Dr. Patel: No, no. I think it is so, to my mind. Look at the history of India. After thousand years ready...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Religion does not depend on history. It does not depend on history. It depends on culture, how one is sincere.

Dr. Patel: But when one culture is infected by a dirty culture of other people, the culture gets spoiled. You know, you put one...

Prabhupāda: Just like you are medical man. During British rule, you were medical man, and home rule, you are medical man. It does not mean it has to be changed because the government has changed. One who is unscrupulous, he changes.

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: We are concerned what you are doing now. That's all. We are not for expectation, future hope. We do not believe in that. Trust no future, however pleasant. It may be pleasant to you, but we don't believe it. You rascals, you can feel, but history shows that after death, no brain works. So we take this simple conclusion, that this brain is useless. So am I right or wrong?

Siddha-svarūpānanda: You are right.

Prabhupāda: Sudāmā Vipra, you are very critical. You can say. Am I right or wrong?

Sudāmā Vipra: You're right. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Thank you. That's... Svarūpa Dāmodara asked the scientist that, "You are beginning life from chemicals. Suppose I give you chemicals, can you make life?" "That I cannot say." This is their proposal. This is their... All rascals. And they're wasting public money and making other fools. They're going to the Candraloka and this loka, Venus. Simply wasting time. This remark I gave in the newspaper sometimes in San Francisco...

Siddha-svarūpānanda: When they asked about the moon.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. It is simply waste of time and energy. That's all. And in 1968 I wrote that Easy Journey: "And this is all childish."

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Hṛdayānanda: So Prabhupāda, in this varṇāśrama college, is it true that there will be no need, for example, for teaching material history and mathematics and...?

Prabhupāda: No, there is no need. History, we simply read Mahābhārata, history of the great men, Pāṇḍavas, how they were fighting for the good cause, how they were reigning. That history. Not this rascal history. If you study that history millions of years, what is that history and what you'll learn from that history? You learn history of the really great men, how they worked, how they ruled. That is a... You study history of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira.

Hṛdayānanda: Mahābhārata.

Prabhupāda: Study the history of Mahārāja Parīkṣit. That is required. Not that simply chronological record, all nonsense, and big, big books, and making research. Why should you waste your time in that way?

Hṛdayānanda: Jaya. Yes. And so...

Prabhupāda: Hm? History must be for great person. This is history.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Satsvarūpa: And the idea is that after they've finished their schooling, they would take part in ISKCON, preaching in some way as vaiśya or...

Prabhupāda: Yes. This preaching is also required, to make the groundwork. Because nobody's taking care. Just like some of the devotees, great devotees, they took the profession of becoming thief. They, in South India, it was done so. They took the profession of becoming thief. So a devotee is a thief? But he took. They took it. Because nobody was paying. So they organized a plundering party. "Plunder all these big men." Just like the politicians do. There is history. Yes. So even up to the point to become a thief, devotees took it. Yes. And the gopīs, even up to the point of becoming prostitute—for Kṛṣṇa. So for Kṛṣṇa's sake we have to accept any nonsense type of business. Or on the highest grade. Anything. But for Kṛṣṇa we have to do that.

Hṛdayānanda: So, Prabhupāda, in our temples, we have so many devotees. Should the devotees...?

Prabhupāda: They should be engaged.

Hṛdayānanda: Should they be trained in a particular...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Those who are not able to preach or to do other things, they must go to the plough department, agriculture.

Morning Walk -- March 24, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane (SB 9.4.18). This is... Different parts of our senses should be utilized. The first business is to fix up the mind at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Then engage the tongue in describing the activities of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has acted in so many ways so that we can remember the history of the activities of Kṛṣṇa and discuss it. Vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. Then the legs should be used for going to the temple. Hands should be used for cleansing the temple. Nose should be used for smelling the flowers offered to Kṛṣṇa. Ears should be used for hearing about Kṛṣṇa. In this way if we engage our senses in different activities relating to Kṛṣṇa, that is success of life. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. (Hindi) So now you can talk. (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) (break) Practical purposes. This land and that water is matter, but we are walking on the land. Can you walk on the water?

Dr. Patel: Who is walking?

Prabhupāda: Huh? You are walking, I am walking.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I know it very well.

Dr. Patel: No, no, no. It's a fact. I have read the history.

Prabhupāda: Well, you have read history; I have gone there personally.

Dr. Patel: Going there and reading history is something different. You have seen only at a particular time, but... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...I was on the airport, they called police because they got, they saw one Bhagavad-gītā in my bags. You see. This is the position.

Dr. Patel: They are, they are translating Bhagavad-gītā in their own universities now. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...may be because it was Bhagavad-gītā, they stopped me.

Morning Walk -- April 4, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: When He had this rāsa dance, he was only seven years.

Prabhupāda: No, apart from that, actually, He had sixteen thousand wives when He was in Dvaraka, but these rascals say, "Rural boy." "Rural boy" means when He was in Vṛndāvana. So he does not know even the history, and he is trying to write about Kṛṣṇa. This is going on. And that is the proof. Kṛṣṇa had sixteen thousand wives. That is the proof that He is God, because you cannot maintain even one wife at the present moment. So He maintained sixteen thousand wives. That is the proof that He is God. That is the proof. But they will not take that side. They will take in other way, "Oh, this is all stories and fictitious." That's all. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto (BG 9.11). They do not know. They do not know what is Kṛṣṇa, and they try to write upon Kṛṣṇa, to imitate Kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa was an avatāra. Therefore I am also avatāra." These things are not very good.

Morning Walk -- April 6, 1974, Bombay:

Girirāja: (reads) "...we are given the histories of Kṛṣṇa's appearances and disappearances millions and billions of years ago. In the Fourth Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa tells Arjuna that both he and Arjuna had many births before, and that He, Kṛṣṇa, could remember all of them and that Arjuna could not. This illustrates the difference between the knowledge of Kṛṣṇa and that of Arjuna. Arjuna might have been a very great warrior, a well-cultured member of the Kuru dynasty..." (break)

Acyutānanda: In the last part of Kṛṣṇa Book, Mahā-Viṣṇu says that Arjuna is of the capacity of Nara-nārāyaṇa. So they are avatāras also.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Acyutānanda: But as Arjuna he acts as an ordinary jīva?

Prabhupāda: Yes, there are different types of śaktyāveṣa avatāra. So when an ordinary jīva is specially empowered, he is called śaktya aveṣa avatāra, śatktyaveṣa avatāra, vibhūti. Yad yad vibhūtimat sattvam. He is living entity, but especially empowered. Just like for certain business I give sometimes somebody power of attorney, that "He will do this. He will sign for me." Like that. He is also one of the disciples, but for particular purpose, he is given the power of attorney.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1974, Bombay:

Girirāja: "Within the prison, shackled in iron chains, Vasudeva and Devakī gave birth to a male child year after year. Kaṁsa, thinking each of the babies to be the incarnation of Viṣṇu, killed them one after another."

Prabhupāda: Yes. He killed his brother. He was merciful upon the father only, kept him in the prison. Otherwise he killed the whole family—brother, brother's son and everyone. (break) ...present kings, such incidences are very many in the history, killing everyone. There is another story that Pana, Pana?

Yaśomatīnandana: Panavada.(?)

Prabhupāda: Yes. The child was to be killed and the...

Yaśomatīnandana: Sarvan sevya.(?)

Prabhupāda: Yes, Hare Kṛṣṇa. The maidservant, she changed her own son and kept the real royal family, defended him. Her child was killed.

Yaśomatīnandana: Is it a true story?

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not? (break) ...and maternal uncle of Rāvaṇa.

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So at the present moment, the godless civilization... Therefore the leaders, they do not know how to lead people so that they may become happy. It is the duty of the leader, government, father, teacher, gurus, to see that the subordinates are very, very happy. We find in the history of Mahābhārata that during the time of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira people were not suffering even from excessive heat or cold or any anxiety. So it is the duty of the leaders of the people and the government to see that the citizens are perfectly happy in their occupational duties and they are advancing in spiritual knowledge, because human life is not to live a polished animal life. That is not human life.

Morning Walk -- April 29, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: You first of all eat mercury then. (laughter) You'll be finished. (break) ...no scarcity. Why should we go to imitate the rascals? We have got enough gold. Kṛṣṇa is supplying gold whenever we require. (break) ...artha-prayojanam. Whatever you need, Kṛṣṇa will supply, if you actually remain dependent on Kṛṣṇa. There are so many literatures of different groups, but who is selling so much? Forty thousand, fifty thousand daily? Unless Kṛṣṇa is helping us. In the history no religion book have sold thirty thousand, forty thousand daily. There is no history. So why don't you see this wonderful thing? All the money that I have brought from USA, India, it is all book fund. Nobody has given. George has given. That is not in cash. And he gave that two lakhs. That was spent for Kṛṣṇa Book. So wherefrom the cash is coming?

Gargamuni: Sales of books.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Because we have got substantial sale of books, we are free to get money. And it is unbelievable that religious books are sold thirty thousand, forty thousand, fifty thousand daily. There is no history.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Historic.

Dhanañjaya: Not historical, more philosophical. And he writes many papers for the Catholic Church, for the Vatican.

Prabhupāda: I was also student of philosophy in 1916 to 20 under professor Dr. W.S. Urquhart in Calcutta, Scottish Churches' College. He was my professor. Later on, he became vice chancellor, very big philosopher. We read Dr. Stephens Metaphysics. What is your special subject for study?

Richard Webster: Well, it's rather difficult to say. I suppose medieval philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Medieval.

Richard Webster: From a modern point of view.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Richard Webster: From a modern point of view.

Prabhupāda: Modern.

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Cardinal Pignedoli: Well, I think that because you are friends of God, we are friends of God, we are all friends and this is good. But I think that, if I understand it well, that your aim is to reach people who are unbelievers or people who are atheistic, as you said before. And then I would like to know... You are not obliged, you are completely free to do what you want. But I would like to know if you got into these places or amongst these people... There are many places and many peoples in the world who are in these conditions, without faith and without the spiritual values. Because it is for us, we hope so. We are good friends of God, and we are always in our prayers and meditation united to God, and to... But we thank you for your visit and for your, for this reason we are good friends altogether. But I would like to know historically your work, I mean if you go into these areas or into these places where is possible. For instance, take the example of Russia, eh? Now you are in good relations. India and Russia probably for Indians it is easier than for Europeans or for some of our countries or for Americans. Are you... Have you this problem? Do you go into these areas, into these places?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I went to Moscow. I was invited.

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 25, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: That means their... That is their disease. The same thing, that "Why you are sitting here? Come with me, work." "What shall I do by working?" "You get money." "Then you'll enjoy." "And I am already enjoying." That the... This is called māyā. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). These rascals, simply for little temporary so-called benefit, they have created this working civilization, "Work very hard, very hard." That's all. Whole history... In this Rome city you can see. There are evidences. These buildings are constructed with hard labor. Now those rascals have gone, and they are maintaining, that "They worked so hard." Those who worked very hard they have gone away. Now nobody knows where they are and what they have become. But they are maintaining their bricks. That's all. Brick civilization. (break)

Yogeśvara: No one goes into the park at night. Too dangerous.

Prabhupāda: Just see. They have created such a civilization.

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 26, 1974, Rome:

Yogeśvara: May we have one more picture, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. What are the history of these buildings?

Bhagavān: These were temples here, demigod temples.

Prabhupāda: This style of building, arch, is seen in New Delhi also, constructed by the Moguls. This was also a temple?

Bhagavān: No. This was an arena where they used to watch wrestling, fighting.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...devotees, they do not want any opulence of this material world. They are, what is called, pessimistic. They do not give any value to the opulence of this material world. And it is very good philosophy. But fools and rascals, they are attracted. Now, these buildings were constructed, very highly intellectual men undoubtedly, but they enjoyed, say, for hundred years. That's all.

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 26, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Just see, in humanity. The historical buildings, what is there? They destroy them. This building, I think it was constructed later.

Bhagavān: Yeah, this is new building. (break)

Devotee: ...couldn't understand how they put the buildings together, how they stayed so long, what they used to make it stay together.

Yogeśvara: Yesterday Dhanañjaya said the Coliseum was made of marble.

Devotee: It is the same earth, but they make it...

Bhagavān: Plaster it?

Devotee: Yeah. To be stronger.

Bhagavān: Special earth.

Devotee: (indistinct) (break)

Bhagavān: ...spiritual culture, they cannot even enjoy materially very nicely.

Prabhupāda: No.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Bhagavān: They think it's so horrible to eat another person, but...

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they are suffering. Therefore you'll find, in the recent history, every twenty-five years there is a big war, slaughter, mass slaughtering of the people. How nature will tolerate? Now India has learned, imitated the western countries. Now there is war between India and Pakistan. Otherwise there was no such thing. During two wars between the Pakistan and Hindustan, unnecessarily, without any profit, millions of people were killed.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Give him chair.

Yogeśvara: Yes, he's... Satsvarūpa Mahārāja. Monsieur Douant is the president of the Protestant Center of Geneva. Monsieur Roche-dieu who is the...

M. Roche-dieu: Former, former Honorary Professor of History of Religions on the faculty of theology, Protestant theology.

Yogeśvara: Mr. Roche-dieu is a specialist in Hindu religion.

Prabhupāda: Ah. (French)

Yogeśvara: Mr. Morrel, who is the Dean of the Theology University in Geneva and who directs all of the religious activities for the university.

Swiss Man (2): (French)

Yogeśvara: Theology student. Our spiritual master, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So you have shown our books?

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Paramahaṁsa: Yesterday, in your lecture, you mentioned how in this age it's very difficult to remain chaste or free of...

Prabhupāda: Yes, but one who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's all right. Teach him Sanskrit and English and let him read our books. Then perfect knowledge. He doesn't require to go to school. And so far mathematics and history concerned, everyone knows. Two plus two equal to four. It doesn't require much education. Even illiterate man who has never gone to school, he can also count. Eh? "How much money you are giving me?" He doesn't want to be cheated. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Rāma... So the fact is God cannot be unknown. If you are actually serious to know God, God can be known. This is no argument, that "God cannot be known."

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No accommodation. No. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), and Ramakrishna says that "Whatever path you select, it is all right." So it is completely against Bhagavad-gītā principles. And, and he said... His name was Gadadhara Chatterjee. So at the time of his death, he declared to Vivekananda that "I am the same Kṛṣṇa, I am the same Rāma." So they believed in that, without any evidence, and they started this Ramakrishna mission. This is the history. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that he recognizes that, and he says it is one interpretation, as you have your interpretation, as there are many. He doesn't think that these interpretations are as important as the art of knowing how to live, which is, he thinks, the essence of all religion, how to live. He says the interpretation is not so...

Prabhupāda: But he thinks Ramakrishna lived very well than others? (French)

Yogeśvara: I think one... If I've understood, he's insisting on one point. That is the that the public opinion is actually the most important thing, just as this Ramakrishna expressed the spirit of the Gītā in a way that was most popular, was most favorable to the public.

Prabhupāda: Who is that public? Amongst you, who accepts Ramakrishna.

Room Conversation with Russian Orthodox Church Representative -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Church Representative: There are many professor in Russia of religion, on the history of religion, but who don't believe in nothing.

Karandhara: That was Prabhupāda's point that it's ironic that in modern societies men are called professors, or being proficient in knowledge, but yet they're ignorant of the soul, which is the most basic knowledge, the most fundamental knowledge. According to the Vedic system, Indian system, even a most ignorant man knows about the soul, what to speak of the great learned sages. But in this society, western society, the so-called learned men—they're supposed to be the topmost learned men—they don't even know of the soul. Therefore they're not even in the class of an ignorant man. They're lower than even ignorance.

Prabhupāda: And according to Vedic understanding, one who does not understand what is soul—he identifies himself with this body—he is animal.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Karandhara: Yes, the Zen school don't accept the preeminence of the personality of Buddha. They say Buddha is just a state of mind, and various men in history have attained that state of mind, that no one particular man was the Buddha, set apart from everyone else.

Prabhupāda: At least, he set the example before others. That is not wonderful, but he set the example. Therefore he is original Buddha. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He doesn't deny the personality of Buddha, and he says the most important thing they are following is some kind of disciplic succession from Buddha until now. He says the most important thing is the relation with the disciple and the master who is in affiliation from Buddha.

Karandhara: But they don't have the same historical... I don't think they're considered the same historical personality. I studied Zen myself a number of years, and they don't distinguish one particular individual in one particular period of time as being the Buddha. All the way back in history as long as history goes, any man who's come to the state of enlightenment has become a Buddha. It didn't begin anywhere. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says he doesn't give any special meaning to Buddha. Sometimes Buddha is with them, sometimes Buddha is a concept of God like the Christianity they call God, or Buddha is all this disciplic succession. He doesn't give any special meaning to the word Buddha.

Prabhupāda: No, no, buddha, actually buddha means knowledge, "one who knows," that is the meaning. So that is existing always. Now, we are talking your (sic:) Jain Buddha. Jain Buddha. No? What is the...?

Room Conversation with Mr. Tran-van-Kha, and President & Members of the Society of Buddhists in France -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So this philosophy was spoken 300 millions of years ago. And then again, He spoke 5,000 years ago. This is the history of Bhagavad-gītā. Now, your question. You say that animal has no soul, is it not?

Yogeśvara: (French)

Prabhupāda: That a man has soul, you admit?

Yogeśvara: (French)

Lady (1): (French)

Yogeśvara: Generally in the West it is admitted that the man possesses a soul and not the animals.

Prabhupāda: So why this difference? What difference you find in animal from the man?

Yogeśvara: (French)

Lady (1): (French)

Yogeśvara: She says it is only the body that is different.

Prabhupāda: Only body difference? The man who is there has got body different. The, the Africans, they have got different body. And the Europeans have different body. There are so many men. The aborigines have got different body. So there so many men, human also.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tran-van-Kha, and President & Members of the Society of Buddhists in France -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So Arjuna is presenting his inability, and what we are?

Guest (3): (French)

Yogeśvara: He says, in history there was the mystery of the sphinxes of Egypt, do these sphinxes carry any significance?

Prabhupāda: Hum?

Yogeśvara: Is the pyramid and the sphinx in Egypt civilization are any mystic significance?

Pṛthu Putra: It's a great relevance for the Egyptian civilization.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is just like samādhi. Samādhi, when you become samādhi, then if you're, I mean to say, put within the earth, you do not die.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That word, sound, is the Vedas. So before creation, Vedas were there. So you cannot find out the history of Vedas. You find out the history where the creation began. Then, before that, Vedas were there. (French)

Yogeśvara: He (the Bishop) says that he finds many things agreeable in this Vedic tradition, but he says that he thinks it might be a mistake to say that the Bible is exactly the same thing as the Vedas. He says there are still distinctions.

Prabhupāda: Then, then, distinction, then it is to be considered which is perfect, the later edition or the original.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Recently, there was a historical excavation that Jesus Christ did not die, and he, after crucification, he was taken to Kashmir.

Yogeśvara: Kashmir?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (French)

Yogeśvara: Where was this? In a newspaper?

Prabhupāda: Yes. In paper I saw. (French)

French Woman: But we are not under historical literally. We try to speak of mystical experience. This is exactly the subject of, that we did. We cannot discuss history because everybody has his own documentation.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So I was very much pleased because I was very sorry that Jesus Christ was crucified. But when I heard this historical discovery, I was very satisfied. But one thing is that... Here, at least, in London, I have seen. There are so many churches vacant.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1974, Germany:

Haṁsadūta: And sell...

Prabhupāda: ..."Made in London," and sell it fifteen times higher than the Germans. This was their business. And that was the cause of... Is it not? Those who have studied history... This is the cause. So all this nonsense thing can be solved if we take it: "This is Kṛṣṇa's property." And if you know something, you are manufac..., that's all right. You do it. I do something else. Or even if I do it, where is the cause of fighting? Because they do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: May I put a question, master? On the way there should be progress, inner progress. How to realize that there is a progress? I would say one thing is very important. There are three sufferings in the world of mankind: fear of annihilation, despair if you are taken by something which is absurd, and loneliness, if you are alone. These three sufferings in the world for the natural being. I realize that you make a decisive step on your inner way when you feel life in the very moment when you have to die, when you feel the great meaning in the very moment when you are just having despair, and when you feel the great love of the person God exactly while you are a lonely in the world. And I have realized that we are now in a very decisive moment in the western world because for the first time in the history of mankind, the western people, in Europe and the States, start to take seriously certain experiences, inner experiences, where this truth is revealed. In all times, as far as I see, the great condition of the east, they knew about those experiences where death loses its terrifying character and becomes the threshold to some bigger life. And I always see with also my disciples, as soon as they learn to go through some kind of death, they awake on a new level. So I will say if people are in my place and after a week, they still sleep very well, then I have made a mistake. About that sleep, just to realize something in overcoming their usual needs, their usual fears, their usual habits, in order to touch inwardly another level, and then suddenly they realize there is some quite different principle at work as they see usually in their natural mind.

Prabhupāda: So that different principle, for a devotee is already realized. Because a devotee never thinks of this body, that "I am this body." He thinks "I am...," ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am spirit soul." So without that realization, there is no question of devotional life. So that is first understood. That instruction is being given by Kṛṣṇa to Arjuna, that "You are considering very seriously on this body, but a learned man does not take this body very seriously, either dead or alive." That is the first realization. So everyone in this world, they are concerned with this body, dead or alive. When alive, they take care of the body in so many ways, and when dead they erect big statue upon it. So that realization is this body. When it is alive, very nicely dressed, nicely groomed, nicely everything on account of this body, and when dead, then again the statue, the tomb, that's all, but missing the active principle. He is taking care of this body even after death by erecting very nice memorial, but he has no knowledge where the active principle has lost. That is ignorance.

Morning Walk -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...understood that this group is another edition of hippies. Gradually they are learning that they are not hippies. They are serious. (break) ...paper it was published that "Swami Bhaktivedanta has come in the right time." And what is that?

Satsvarūpa: Yes, in a number of articles, the writer notes that Prabhupāda came at a perfect time in history, and went to the right place, the lower East Side of New York, and then again in Haight Ashbury, just when the hippie movement was big but they were looking for spiritual life. That is a historical expert move that you made.

Prabhupāda: No, that is very good remark, appreciated. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He is known as patita-pāvana, the deliverer of the most fallen. Patita-pāvana-hetu tava avatāra: "My Lord, Your incarnation is for the reason to deliver all the fallen souls." So He gave one example by delivering Jagāi and Mādhāi, but by His grace, now thousands of Jagāi-Mādhāis are being delivered. He gave the example that here is the typical patita, fallen. So this movement will deliver this kind of people. That is His prediction.

Room Conversation -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: They'll never admit. Neither they will explain how it is. They know it, how it is done. It has been done, or it is being done by somebody. That they do not know, who is that somebody. And when we say it is Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa says, "It is I am," they'll not agree. This is their position. They do not know who is that somebody, and when we say, "Here is that somebody," they'll not believe it. This is mūḍha. Therefore it is said... The mūḍha cannot explain all... And at the same time, will not accept the real thing. That is mūḍha. Mūḍha means rascal. And they will set aside the thing, "Yes, scientifically we are searching. In future, we shall be able." And when that future will come? Past, present and future. The future will become past also. Just like tomorrow, 29th June, this is future. Now, day after tomorrow, it will be past. (laughter) So if you are talking of future, but where is the history... In the history the future is past. This is common sense. So therefore they have discovered this nonsense ad infinitum that future will never come. And still, they will set aside the business to some future and take the credit. Yes. "In future we shall be able to do it." And that future will never come. And still, they will take the credit. (laughter) Just see. Therefore mūḍha. This is the explanation of mūḍha. It is just like somebody offered you a post-dated check, and then he wants to clear his debt. Suppose I am debtor by hundreds of dollars to you. I give you a post-dated check, and still I say, "Now I am clear of your debt." And that post-dated check will never be paid. This is their theory. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ duṣkṛtino narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). (pause) The government has recognized us as bona fide religious sect.

Room Conversation with Bishop Kelly -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Bishop Kelly: Oh, I have, I have. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So by association with devotee, by hearing, hearing, śravaṇādi... Śravaṇādi means hearing... Beginning is hearing. If you patiently hear, then that dormant God consciousness again becomes revived. Yes. Then his life is successful.

Bishop Kelly: What would you hold about the, what you might term the revelation of God, the ongoing communication of God in revealing Himself and in further making known His will for man at different stages of his own life, say, in his spiritual life, and, of course, in different stages of history and in different cultures?

Prabhupāda: That is recommended. You see. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, dadāmi buddhi (BG 10.10). Because the God consciousness is there, God is there, now God is prepared to give Him instruction always. He is giving you instruction. Now, how that dormant consciousness can be revived, that is stated. You read it.

Morning Walk at Marine del Rey -- July 13, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That means there is conspiracy. So we should be politicians also (break) ...somebody protested that "Your Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement makes the people dull." And now, you have not seen the Vaiṣṇava. There was two fight in the Indian history. One is Rāma and Rāvaṇa, and one is Kurukṣetra. And the hero is Vaiṣṇava. We are going to produce such Vaiṣṇavas, not these dull rascals, sitting down. We don't want these Vaiṣṇavas, sitting down rascals. We want Arjuna or we want no one. That is Vaiṣṇava. That is wanted.

Jayatīrtha: It's time to go back. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...that if we remain rascals, then that Gaurasundara's example will be followed. One day you'll again become crazy and close up everything and smoke. That's all. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, prāṇa arthe yaṅra sei hetu pracāra. "One who has got life, he can preach." The dead man cannot preach. So you become with life, not like dead man. Without life... Just like all my godbrothers. They are dead men. And therefore they are envious of my activities. They have no life. If you want to make easy-going life, showing the Deity and then sleep, then it is a failure movement.

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: We take that it is a competition of the thieves. All rascals. That's not the civilization. And Mahābhārata history also we find so many demons. Just like..., what is called, that asura, he simply plundered all the beautiful princesses.

Devotee (2): Bhaumāsura?

Prabhupāda: Bhaumāsura, something like that. They all of them became Kṛṣṇa's wife. They prayed to Kṛṣṇa to be rescued from the hands of... Then Kṛṣṇa rescued them, killed that Bhaumāsura, and excused them, then they were set free. Then their plea that "We are set free, that's all right, but we cannot go home because we were kidnapped. So we shall not be married. Nobody will accept us." "Then what do you want?" "You become our husband." "All right." Kṛṣṇa becomes (indistinct). This is going on. Somebody is thinking of money, somebody is thinking of woman. These two things, money and woman, and whole struggle (indistinct). The Musselman nawabs, they used to keep... That one nawab, they have got his quarters in Lucknow, he had 160 wives. Even in recent, you know this (name withheld)? His elder brother, (name withheld), practically he is the origin of the (name withheld) concern. So I was a guest of the (indistinct). So he has got three wives—one Bengali wife, one (indistinct) wife, and his original wife being Jain. He had three, four wives. And each wife's establishment, ten thousand rupees per month. So he is earning money and he is spending it.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: There are many ways. Just like hypothesis. Hypothesis. Yes. History, history. Hypothesis, history. Then direct perception. There are many. But of all these, śabda-pramāṇa is taken as best. Śabda-pramāṇa, evidence through the sound. That is the best.

Professor: No, but (indistinct). According to (indistinct). If one comes to value, existential value of a thing, through deduction... Is it possible or not only through intuition, through direct intuition of the reality of the whole?(?)

Prabhupāda: Value by intuition?

Professor: Direct knowledge of the existence of a thing, of anything.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The knowledge of existence, that nityaḥ-śāśvato 'yam, nityaḥ ṣāṣvataḥ, that is knowledge of existence. So you have to learn which is nitya and which is not nitya from the authority. "This is nitya, and this is anitya." So nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). These are the Vedic version: "There is one chief nitya amongst the many nityas." Just like we, we living entities, we are nityas, eternal. First of all try to understand eternity. You were a child or I was a child. Now that body, child body, is no longer existing. But I understand, I know, that I had a body, child. Therefore I am nitya. I am existing.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that in European history many, many people, in the name of looking for transcendence, there have been so many wars, hatred between men, and, you may know, in Spain they had what is called the Inquisition where they burned so many people. And so he's saying, psychologically, that his brain tells him that in the name of searching after transcendence there has been so much bad, so how is this different?

Prabhupāda: The difference is transcendence is beyond our mind, bodily activities, mental activities or intelligence. The European philosophers and transcendentalists, they do not know actually what is transcendence. They understand that there is something, but they do not know what it is. Therefore they speculate by their imperfect senses. Gradually it becomes craziness. Therefore you find that defect.

Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: The modern society is not taking care of the driver; they are taking care of the car. This is the defect.

Lady (Hṛdayānanda): Also she would like to know what other societies there have been in history which did not have these problems.

Prabhupāda: The problems... In the material world this problem is always there. Sometimes it is more; sometimes it is less. Material world means ignorance of the driver. That ignorance is sometimes very big, and sometimes it is less, but ignorance is there.

Lady (Hṛdayānanda): She said in other words it's not a problem simply of the modern society but a problem of man, and then also she said, "What are, more specifically, the problems, and how can we solve the problems?"

Prabhupāda: The real problem is that the human being, I am speaking only of human being, not of the animals, because the animals, they do not know what is the problem; neither they can solve it. It is not possible. In the human form of body there is possibility of making a solution of this problem. Therefore in the human society, along with other educational department, there should be an educational department to understand what is soul, what it is (is its) nature, how it is working, what is the future, wherefrom it is coming. So many things there are. But there is no education for this prime factor, the driver. There is no education.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Teaching must be orthodox, otherwise what is the value? If the teaching changes, that is not very good.

Professor Fenton: Well, it may be that it changed in the early history of Christianity through Greek influence on its Jewish background.

Prabhupāda: It is changing now also, they are so... Change is of the material world, in the spiritual world there is no change, absolute. In the relative world there is change. So our definition of religion is little different from the worldly definition. Our definition... "Our" means there should be the real definition: religion means the laws which are given by God.

Professor Fenton: Sanātana-dharma.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Sanātana... Yes, religion should be sanātana. Sanātana means there cannot be any change. Just like every living being eats, you cannot change it. You cannot say that this living entity is not eating. Apart from human society, even in animal society, a living being eats. This is his religion. Sleeps, has sex, these are eternal characteristics. Similarly, religion means spiritual characteristics. That spiritual characteristic is also pervertedly reflected in the material world. Just like every one is servant. Anyone, any one of us, we are all servant. You are serving the University.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: So when that cooperation was withdrawn, naturally they could not... They were trying to the last point, but when the Subhas Bose's organization, INA... You have studied that Indian history. Yes. INA. Indian National Army. So this National Army was formed by Subhas Candra Bose outside India with the cooperation of Hitler and Tojo. He's formed that, what is called, Indian government outside India, the INA, the soldiers... The INA soldiers means all the soldiers that were arrested in the battlefield, they were given to Subhas Candra Bose, either by the Japanese or by the Germans. So the soldiers took this opportunity; they voluntarily surrendered to the enemy. So when the Britishers understood that the soldiers, Indian soldiers, are now noncooperating, then they decided, "No, no more. It is not possible." So they voluntarily withdrew, that Sir Sirpiting(?) Lawrence, the secretary of state for India. Then they voluntarily settled up. And they settled up means the last parting kick was partition-Pakistan and India. And they partitioned in such a way that these two people will fight everlong. That is going on. They are very good politicians.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: That you can say, today or tomorrow, but we know in the history nobody has manufactured in the past, and nobody is manufacturing in the present. How can I believe in the future?

Guest: I think many things that were not done in the past are being done today.

Prabhupāda: No. In the past there was winter season. In the present there is winter season. Therefore I can say next January will be winter season. That is nice. But if it is not happened in the past or present, how you can say? That proposition is not accepted. In the past there was birth, death, old age, and disease, in the present there is birth, death, old age, and disease, and in the future there will be birth, death, and old age and disease. This conclusion is all right. In the past there was birth, death, old age, and disease. At the present there is birth, death, and old age, disease. How you can say in the future there will be no birth, no death, no old age...? That proposal is not very sound. You can say whimsically; that is another thing. But factually it is not possible.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Guest (2): I thought when some people say that it wasn't very important to know whether Kṛṣṇa was living or not, they talk to Kṛṣṇa as a historical fact, as an individual, as a person who lived within the framework of time and space. Kṛṣṇa as an individual, as a historical person, might not even important, as they said Aśoka(?) or Christ or...

Prabhupāda: (Aside to devotee:) You come here. I do not follow the accent, you hear and tell.

Guest: What would be important was Kṛṣṇa teachings. One must, could not be confined to any one period of time. He is incarnation of God and somebody who was talking for the truth and in the name of the truth, and... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...fact is that if you have got different views about Kṛṣṇa, then you cannot prove that from the Bhagavad-gītā. That you cannot prove. If you take Bhagavad-gītā, then you must present it as it is. Don't distort it. You may have got some idea, but you explain that idea in your different book. But don't place it as the explanation of Bhagavad-gītā. That is not very good. If you have got different theory, you can write in a different book. But we cannot permit or do not like that as the commentary of Bhagavad-gītā you will place something different. That is not very honest. You put your own theory.

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: So you have already supplied.

Gargamuni: I gave him one copy of Back to Godhead and that BBT... You have it there? And the BBT catalogue which gives your history and everything.

Prabhupāda: And catalogue? Where is? This is BBT?

Gargamuni: Yes. This tells about your books.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) ...movement, (Bengali) bogus religious, it is scientific. You can question; I will understand. (break) They do not know what is the meaning of life. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Another blind leader, so-called leader, he is blind himself. He does not know how to lead people. And the followers, followers are also blind. So what will be the result? They are bound up... Suppose if I tightly wrap your eyes, and all of them are done so, then how you will lead them?

Guest: Blind leaders and blind followers?

Prabhupāda: Then they are controlled by the laws of material nature, and they want to be happy independently. This is rascaldom. If I am controlling you and you want to become happy independently, how it is possible? You must get out of the control first of all. Your eyes should be open. Then you can do something independently. But you are under my control fully, and I have wrapped up your eyes with very thick layer of cloth, and then how you can become independent, work. That they do not know.

Conversation with Devotees -- March 31, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Nobody, but from the history it was found that it belonged to Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava. That... In Delhi one lawyer is there. He knows. He told me. (long pause)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In our society, some devotees have an idea to spend money by employing professional men to advertise our society in so many different ways through advertising campaigns, etc. My idea is that our money should be spent on direct preaching. In other words, that can't...

Prabhupāda: Then we are spending advertisement, for?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, sometimes I know... Just... I mean they hire professional firms to assist in public relations work.

Prabhupāda: Not in... What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: As an example, last year at Ratha-yātrā, two thousand dollars were spent to hire a professional group to assist them in making up the advertisements and other things, giving them guidance, general assistance...

Prabhupāda: If you get really assistance, there is no harm. Just like sometimes we go to the court; we pay to the lawyer because we are not expert. In that sense, it can be spent.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: But I'm protesting that you cannot control. You are rascal. You are thinking like that. That is our charge against you, that you cannot control. In the history there is not a single instance that man has controlled nature. But nature has controlled man. That is the history. Where is the proof that you shall control? You are controlled. Nature is forcing you to become an old man. You are becoming. You control like that, that you remain a young man. Nature is controlling you to die. You control nature that death will not be forced upon me. So where is the history that man has controlled nature?

Nitāi: They say that now we are controlling atomic energy and now we are controlling...

Prabhupāda: What is that atomic energy? What is the use of it? We'll die. Without atomic energy you'll die. What is that control? Death is already there, and you're utilizing atomic energy for death, that's all. So what is your credit? You use atomic energy that you'll not die. Then it is control. Death is already there. You might have atomic energy or no atomic energy—you have to die. By atomic energy you are accelerating the same problem of death, that's all.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: According to our śāstra you are going to be pygmy men. That is, there is proof, because you are not as strong as your forefathers. That's a fact. You are becoming dwarfer, dwarfer. According to our śāstra you come to that pygmy, (indistinct) in due course of time. As it was before, so again the time is repeating, history repeating.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then that means our pygmy men were from a previous Kali-yuga?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We say there was Kali-yuga. Four yugas are changing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dinosaurs also?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If you give up this varṇāśrama-dharma, then where is your bhāratīya sanskṛiti? But they are trying to give it up, abolish this. Then where is bhāratīya sanskṛiti? Then?

Brahmānanda: "Six: Injunctions of śāstras regarding charity and how it should be practiced in the present conditions. So the mutual relationship of dharma and politics in the light of our history and tradition can only be revived when we observe the system of varṇāśrama. It is actually like this: the brāhmaṇa is like the head, and the kṣatriya is like the arms, the vaiśya is the stomach or the abdomen, and the śūdra is like the legs. Similarly, spiritually, the brahmacārī is the trained-up disciple, the gṛhastha is the trained-up householder, the vānaprastha is experienced as a retired gentleman, and the sannyāsī is completely in the renounced order of life for spiritual advancement. There is no question of the head being in an exalted position without the cooperation of the leg. When there is a pin-prick in some part of the leg, the head immediately takes it very seriously and takes out the thorn in some part of the leg. Similarly, whenever there is some outside attack, the arms or the hands spread to protect the whole body. In the same way, within the abdomen there is the machinery of digesting foodstuffs, and after digestion the secretion turns into blood and it is infused throughout the whole anatomical structure of the body. Similarly, the cooperation between the head, arms, stomach and legs is the perfect situation of the human society."

Governor: Coordination.

Prabhupāda: Coordination. As head is also trying to maintain the body nicely, this arm is also. Now this has been nationally centralized. So that is the idea. Not that "Because I am head, brāhmaṇa, oh, here is a śūdra. Oh, don't see his face." Why? Śūdra is also required. Leg is also required. Head is also required.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Nonviol... That's alright, he was a fool. Therefore I say you cannot bring nonviolence in politics. There is no such history. Just like Arjuna wanted to be nonviolent. Kṛṣṇa chastized him, that you are a foolish number one. So... This is to bring a horse before a cart. Politics and nonviolence, it is incompatible. It is not possible. And he did it. Therefore he was a fool. Just like if you want to cook without fire. Is it possible?

Devotee: No.

Prabhupāda: So, this is foolishness. You become very bold enough, "Now I shall cook without fire." You are a rascal number one. Gandhi did it. Actually he could not drive away the Britishers by nonviolence, for thirty years, thirty-five years he struggled. When Subash Bose introduced violence, they were forced out. This is politics. Politics and nonviolence (incompatible). There is no history in the world that politics has been successful without violence, and he introduced this. So how much foolish he was, you can understand. It is same thing like that, if somebody says, "I'll cook without any. I shall scientifically do that a man can give birth to a child." There is no history, and if I say, "Now I shall do it. I shall see that equal rights. As a woman is giving birth to a child, the man will also will give child." These things are foolishness. This is not intelligence. The women are claiming equal rights. So, stop giving birth to a child? Then equal rights. Can it be possible? The man and woman unite, but the woman becomes pregnant, not the man. And if somebody says, now the man will become pregnant, is it not foolishness?

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: "As far as the duties of mankind are concerned, there are innumerable duties. Every man is duty-bound not only to his parents, family members, society, country, humanity, other living beings, the demigods, etc., but also to the great philosophers, poets, scientists, etc. It is enjoined in the scriptures that one can relinquish all such duties and surrender unto the service of the Lord. So if one does so and becomes successful in the discharge of his devotional service unto the Lord, it is well and good. But it so happens sometimes that one surrenders himself unto the service of the Lord by some temporary sentiment, and in the long run, due to so many other reasons, he falls down from the path of service by undesirable association. There are so many instances of this in the histories. Bharata Mahārāja was obliged to take his birth as a stag due to his intimate attachment to a stag. He thought of this stag when he died. As such, in the next birth he became a stag, although he did not forget the incidents of his previous birth. Similarly, Citraketu also fell down due to his offenses at the feet of Śiva. But in spite of all this, the stress is given here to surrendering unto the lotus feet of the Lord, even if there is a chance of falling down, because even though one falls down from the prescribed duties of devotional service, he will never forget the lotus feet of the Lord. Once engaged in the devotional service of the Lord, one will continue the service in all circumstances. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that even a small quantity of devotional service can save one from the most dangerous position. There are many instances of such examples in history. Ajāmila is one of them. Ajāmila in his early life was a devotee, but in his youth he fell down. Still, he was saved by the Lord at the end."

Prabhupāda: Even by sentiment one comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is not loser; he is gainer. And if one person does not come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he does his duty very nicely, he gains nothing.

Room Conversation with Kim Cornish -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: It requires elucidation. "Complete whole" means, just like your body is complete whole, and there are so many other things, there are so many holes in the body, there are so many hairs on the body, there are so many hairs on the head, so many fingers, eyes, ears—so many things—but the body is a complete unit, working as a complete machine. And there are so many things. Similarly, the whole cosmos is complete, exactly like this body is a machine. Similarly the whole cosmos is a big machine. It is complete. One sun is there and keeping everything complete. The day and night, the seasonal changes, the equator, the temperature, the moonlight, the other planets, we living beings, the vegetables—everything is complete by God. And because the sun is there. Similarly, this body, machine, is complete. And the soul is there, it is working nicely. The body is also a creation, and the universe is also a creation, and the brain which has created these things, He is complete. Therefore He has created these complete units. That is the idea. Pūrṇam idaṁ (Iso Invocation). Pūrṇaḥ means complete. And because He is complete, the Creator, He has no defect; therefore He can create everything complete. Pūrṇam idaṁ, pūrṇam adaḥ, pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate. And He is so complete that pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya, from the complete, if you take the whole complete, still He is complete. Here is a glass of water; I am drinking. Drinking part by part. And when it is finished, the water is finished, no more complete. But He is so complete, that just like the sun, the temperature is being distributed for million and millions of years, still it is full of temperature. Here, unless the electric power is there, it is not complete. But there is power in the sunshine. It is a reservoir of so much temperature and light, that in history millions and millions of years it is distributing, the seasonal changes are going on, the green foliage is coming again, the snow and rain is coming, so many things are going on account of temperature.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: But what do they know about the soul, about God? First thing is that there is a supreme authority. You are not independent. So if you do not know who is that supreme authority, what is the value of your knowledge? You have to accept there is a supreme authority, because you are not independent. But you do not know. Just like a rascal, he does not know about the government. What kind of man he is? He's a rascal. A civilized man means he knows what is government, what is the history of government. That is civilized. And if he doesn't know what is government, he is simply living there, he's a third class man. So you have to accept there is a government of the whole universal affair, but you do not know it. Then you are third-class man. You are not human being; you are animal. Animal does not know. This is the proof that you are animal, you are not human being. A human being, at least a class of man there must be—brāhmaṇa. Brāhma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ, one who knows how things are going on. We know that. We Kṛṣṇa conscious people, we know. Therefore we are civilized.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No you'll never advance. Your advance is so slow and foolish that you cannot.

Amogha: But some Indian history professors say...

Prabhupāda: We are not talking of Indian history, we are talking on the truth. We never say it is Indian truth.

Amogha: But Bhagavad-gītā has been presented in so many ways also, and now we are saying it is another way.

Prabhupāda: Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that "I am showing you the way how to understand Bhagavad-gītā. You have to accept that." Not so many ways. Only that way. That I have explained in the Preface, that when you have to take a medicine, you have to take the direction: dose, such and such. Not that so many ways doses are prescribed. According to the prescription you have to take. Otherwise you will waste your time. Now they have wasted so many plates. What is the value of this? (referring to memorial plates on trees.)

Amogha: Bhūtejya.

Prabhupāda: What benefit is there? A soldier has died. So what is the use of having a tree, having a plate?

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That is the idea. That is the real purpose. They want to kill Kṛṣṇa. That is the endeavor of Hiranyakasipu, Kamsa, that "We shall kill Kṛṣṇa." And ultimately they become killed. Their faith is like that.

Amogha: Their whole idea of Indian history, of Vedic history, is completely perverted. When we say five thousand years ago Vyāsadeva compiled this in writing, they say, "There was no civilization five thousand..." They said, "Only two thousand years ago there was some tribes, and they were not very moral," and things like this, all completely nonsense, because they misread the Bhāgavata and things like this. And then they teach some of the students these crazy ideas. Not all of them, but I talked to some who teach like this.

Prabhupāda: The more you fight with these rascals, the more you advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You are a fighting soldier. Kṛṣṇa very much appreciates. (long pause) So you take Bhagavad-gītā by your own interpretation, and I take Bhagavad-gītā as it is. So who is right? Who will decide this? You interpret in your own way. I don't interpret. I take it as it is. Now we are two parties. So who is correct?

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: ...the history of Sunday, Monday, Tuesday?

Prabhupāda: Why not Monday first?

Amogha: Well, the sun...

Devotee (1): God created the earth, in the Bible. God started on a Monday. He created the earth. It says in the Bible in the Old Testament that it took Him seven days, or six days, and on the seventh day He rested. But still there is some dispute whether He started on a Sunday or a Monday. So the Jewish, the Hebrews, they hold the Sabbath on a Saturday, and the Christians and the Catholics they have the Sabbath on the Sunday. But on the seventh day God rested after creating the heavens and the earths.

Śrutakīrti: It was always very bad to engage in any type of work on the Sabbath day. It was used only to glorify the Lord.

Paramahaṁsa: For fishing.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: But all knowledge comes from the Vedas.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Greek history is about three thousand years. (break) ...During the time of Mahārāja Parīkṣit's grandson. Mahārāja Parīkṣit was the grandson of Yudhiṣṭhira, and Yudhiṣṭhira ruled over five thousand years ago. So the Yayāti... Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's grandson is Parīkṣit. His son is Janamejaya. And his son is Yayāti. And his son started Greek and Roman Empire. So therefore the Greek history is not more than three thousand years. Mahārāja Yayāti banished his two sons to the European quarters. Mleccha-yavana. Later on they became yavana, from Vedic culture deviated. This is the history.

Amogha: He sent them there for conquering?

Prabhupāda: Huh? No. He gave him, that "You take that place."

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: How, one after another, how one is born out of the... That is... How the brāhmaṇas were there, kṣatriyas were there—everything in Vedic... These Vedic mantra means the history of human society. And the origin is God, Kṛṣṇa, Nārāyaṇa. There are other mantras wherein it is stated, eko nārāyaṇa āsīt. "Only Nārāyaṇa was there." Neither Lord Śiva nor Brahmā. Later on, they came. When he first cites the mantra, vande mahā-puruṣa te caraṇāravindam, śiva-viriñci-nutam (SB 11.5.33). Śiva means Lord Śiva, and viriñci means Brahmā. All of them offer respect to Nārāyaṇa. Indian astrology was taken by the Arabians first. The one, two, three, four, five, six, these figures were taken from India, up to nine, then zero. Then you make all mathematical, arithmetical calculation.

Morning Walk -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: For children-kill them. This is Kali-yuga. They are killing their own children and patting a dog. Just see how much fallen they are, and they're passing as civilized. Fourth class. Complaining of overpopulation, and the dog gives birth at a time half a dozen—there is no overpopulation, welcome; we shall maintain them. Huh? They're giving twice in a year, or once in a, even once in a year, that is no overpopulation. A man gives one or two birth, it is overpopulation. Formerly they are begetting hundred children. At that time there was no complaint of overpopulation. At that time, the description in the history is kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). On account of good rains, the earth used to produce immense necessities of life. Just like this portion is maintained with sufficient water, there is green everywhere. So if there is sufficient rain, everywhere you can do. Where is the question of overpopulation? (break) ...population you work for growing food. No. Some of them are becoming hippies, no work. And some of them are working for manufacturing tire tube, tools, that's all. Where is food? Still there is food, but they'll not work for this, for growing food.

Morning Walk -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to believe only. You have to accept what Bhāgavata says. That is your business. Not to try to make an experiment. That is not possible. It is already experimented, and the mature knowledge is stated there. You have to accept, that's all. Śruti-pramāṇa. Śruti means Vedas. Evidence... Vedic literature there are three kinds of evidences. The most powerful evidence is śruti. If it is stated in the Vedas, that is first-class evidence. Therefore whatever we say, immediately quote some Vedic version, that is the way of understanding. Kṛṣṇa says, Vyāsadeva says, Parāśara says, that's all. We don't require much proof. This is the first-class proof, when you find the statement corroborated by the Vedas. And śruti, smṛti. Smṛti means literature written according to the Vedic version. Śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi (Brs. 1.2.101). Purāṇādi is itihāsa, history. And another pramāṇa is anumāna. And anumāna means "by right person." Thinking that it may be like this, anumāna. That is called anumāna.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So dharmāviruddha, sex life which is not against religious principle, that I am. Kṛṣṇa, God says. So sex life is not bad provided it is under the religious system.

Jesuit: That's true of everything, yes. I thought you were saying sex in itself is bad.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Sex life...

Jesuit: There have been people in the history of the world like the Manicheans and that who held that sex in itself was bad. Now I couldn't accept that. It's part of man.

Prabhupāda: No, dharmāviruddha. Just you can have sex for begetting nice children but not for sense gratification.

Jesuit: Also for increasing the love between husband and wife.

Prabhupāda: Mm?

Jesuit: Even though they can't have children.

Prabhupāda: No, they can have children.

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Journalist: You founded the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. How long ago was that?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is since five thousand years ago or before that. You may say forty millions of years ago as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. But taking it by modern history, in your country, in the Western countries, I have started it since 1966 from New York. The movement is very, very old. But it is started in the Western countries since last seven or eight years.

Journalist: And where did it first start, which country?

Prabhupāda: New York.

Journalist: In New York.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: How many millions? Still, if you hold any Kṛṣṇa conscious meeting, they will come by thousands, twenty thousand, thirty thousand, like that. Even village to village, if there is any chance of Kṛṣṇa conscious meeting, all the villagers will come, still.

Journalist: How many years has Kṛṣṇa consciousness...

Prabhupāda: That I told you, according to the modern history, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is there since five thousand years.

Journalist: Nine thousand years.

Prabhupāda: Five thousand.

Journalist: Five thousand years.

Prabhupāda: Mm. And before that there was Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement also and that date is... (end)

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That—because you are student of history-Mahatma Gandhi's photograph with Gītā. Did he speak anything about Gītā or Kṛṣṇa in the history of his life? Then how he is mahātmā?

Dr. Copeland: People called him that.

Prabhupāda: People call, that is another thing. That is the defect of the modern civilization, that vox populi. The people may be asses; still, their votes are accepted. The people are trained up as the fourth-class, fifth-class men, and their votes are appre... This is the defect of the modern... They are not trained up as first-class men, and still, their votes are accepted. Therefore, even a very advanced country, America, there was mistake, Nixon. They elected him president. Then they dragged him down. That is the mistake. Yes.

Dr. Copeland: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: They did not elect a first-class man, and later on, they could understand. So everywhere it is going on. Vox populi, the people, are less intelligent. They do not know whom to vote. And besides that, votes can be purchased. They do purchase by paying according to the country. So what is the value of this vote?

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That... Saintly person should depend on Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa is not supplying cloth, all right, find out some torn, thrown-out cloth on the street. And food? Go to the tree. Take some fruit. And for water, go to the river. There is sufficient water. And for shelter, go to the cave. So these are already arranged. And above, over and above, do you think that the Supreme Lord does not take care of the person who has fully surrendered unto Him? Then why you are going to flatter this rich class of men for your food? This is the... And that is the... Especially throughout the history in India you will find, many hundred thousands of these sādhus. They do not go anywhere. I have seen at Allahabad, Kumbha-melā. They take bath in the Ganges and sit down in their place, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, without caring wherefrom the food will come. They sit down. And everything is coming. Still in India, if there is information, even in the remotest villages, "There is a saintly person has come in the village," they will approach. "Bābā, what can I do for you?"

Dr. Copeland: Have you done that? Have you wandered around from village to village?

Prabhupāda: Not village to village, but town to town. Even in foreign countries.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Amogha: Other versions of the Gītā besides Lord Caitanya's.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not authorized. Therefore we say specifically, "Bhagavad-gītā As It is," no interpretation. Here Kṛṣṇa says that man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). So we preach that thing. We preach that "You be Kṛṣṇa conscious." Man-manāḥ: "Always think of Me," Kṛṣṇa says. And we are teaching these disciples, "Always think of Kṛṣṇa." There is no difference. We don't create. And therefore it is successful. Others, they created their own concoction; it was never successful. Before me, so many swamis came to the Western countries. They were not successful. Not a single person was Kṛṣṇa conscious, in the history. In the history of the last two hundred years so many swamis are coming in the Western countries. They also speak on Bhagavad-gītā, but not a single person was Kṛṣṇa conscious. And since we have presented Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, hundreds and thousands. This is the proof, that they presented something concoction. It was, what is called, impotent.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Tea was taken in our childhood if somebody is coughing, sometimes they used to tea. That was also later. But it was unknown. Drinking tea, drinking wine, smoking, meat-eating—these things were unknown. Prostitution. There was prostitution. Not that everyone is prostitute. Very strict. So these things should be taken care of—at least a class of men must be ideal for people others will see. And the training should go on, just like we are doing. We are inviting people to come to chant with us, to dance with us, take prasādam. And gradually they are becoming. The same (?) addicted to drinking, addicted to prostitution, addicted to meat-eating, he is becoming saintly person. This is practical, you can see, what was their previous history and what they are now.

Morning Walk -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Oh. The building is known everywhere.

Madhudviṣa: Oh yes. It is important building. They cannot... It is not allowed to be torn down. It is protected by the...

Prabhupāda: Historical.

Madhudviṣa: Historical building. It is protected by the government.

Śrutakīrti: Yesterday you were telling Bhūrijana they should make the temple a tourist attraction. So with this method, it would be very easy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (coughs)

Śrutakīrti: Roll down the window.

Prabhupāda: ...the demonic, they construct very nice house. (break) ...this planet, there are seven other planets. There sunshine does not go. But they are very well situated.

Radio Interview -- May 25, 1975, Fiji:

Interviewer: Coming back to this question of the western type of civilization, do you feel that the success of the movement in the western society is an indication of the need being felt by the western man that has been lacking in spiritual ideologies?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. But the thing is that they are very intelligent. There is no doubt about it. Materially, they are always advanced. Materially, when they are manufacturing machine of the airship, in India we are manufacturing sewing machine or cycle. I have seen in the World Fair the Indians were very proud of manufacturing cycle and sewing machine, whereas the Americans and Europeans, they were showing the how subtle machine of this jet plane are there. So materially, they are advanced. There is no doubt about it. Hundred years. But spiritually they are not. Therefore, I am an Indian, poor Indian—they are coming to me. Because they understand that spiritually... Not only me, any swami who go, they crowd to him, "If there is something spiritual?" Unfortunately, the other swamis, they go to exploit them, to cheat them. They do not... Neither they do know what is spiritual life; neither they could give them. For example, for the last two..., hundred years or more than that the swamis are going; not a single person was a Kṛṣṇa devotee in the history in the western countries.

Morning Walk -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Cloudy.

Brahmānanda: Very cloudy today.

Jayatīrtha: Yeah, it's cloudy. (break) ...June in the history of Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Jayatīrtha: Yes. It was warmer in January, the paper says, than now. During the day. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...this warm. But it is cold. (break)

Brahmānanda: In London, when I came there, the weather was very sunny and bright. It was very pleasant.

Jayatīrtha: Here the sun goes down at eleven o'clock and it gets up at four o'clock. (break)

Prabhupāda: Three hours. I was there. Up to eleven o'clock at night there is sun, and then perhaps twelve or half past twelve, there is night. That is also not full dark. And at three o'clock, again sun. So many hours? Eleven to three. (break) ...above Sweden there is no night tonight.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Judah: Yes, well, I do, I... As I say, as I said last night...

Prabhupāda: No, you have got that mentality, I know that. But because you are president or chairman of that center... What is that? Union.

Dr. Judah: I'm chairman of the department of the history and phenomenology of religion.

Prabhupāda: So who is the chairman of this union?

Dr. Judah: I'm just the chairman of this one department of the history and phenomenology of religion.

Prabhupāda: That's... Then you are also important officer. So you can induce them, that "Here is God."

Dr. Judah: Well, I'm going to try to do what I can to..., as I told you to...

Prabhupāda: (laughing) No, no, if they do not take, refuse to take, so what kind of theologians they are? That is my... Here is the knowledge. Why one should refuse to take it?

Dr. Judah: When you have your temple there in Berkeley, I want to continue on chanting and being with the devotees and doing what I can to further Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, in the Bhagavad-gītā... If you take this that "Kṛṣṇa is Indian, Kṛṣṇa is Hindu, we shall not take," but the words Kṛṣṇa, if you take it, "God said," or whatever you..., so the wordings are God's. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). "There is nobody, superior element than Me." So God can say that. So you remove the word, Kṛṣṇa uvāca, but take the words of God.

Morning Walk -- June 28, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: And very nice park. And not far away. (break) ...interested with this natural history. That means Darwin's theory. That's all. Their whole civilization is based on this Darwin's theory. How long you shall keep history? Do you know what is the history of the sun, when it was created, when it came into appearance? Can Darwin give us the history of the sun, of the moon, of the sky? Where is the history? There is history, but where is your history? You simply imagine, "There was a chunk, and it became manifested as the sun, moon, and I am also this..." What is this? How this cosmic manifestation came into existence—your explanation is: "There was a chunk." And what other nonsense? (break) walking: ...house is on the water? No. (break) ...coughing. Catch cold?

Harikeśa: Hawaii was not a very healthy place for me. Hawaii.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Morning Walk -- June 28, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: He told the history of his mother. Yes.

Brahmānanda: (break) ...is also a rogue.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. He was canvassing, "What is this nonsense, 'No women, no illicit sex' "? He gave car." (?)

Brahmānanda: He was supplying women to his son.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. "What is the wrong?" He was coming to our Second Avenue to call his son, "Why you are in this association? Come." At last, we could not save him. The father took away. (break) ...museum?

Kurusretha: Some kind of boat house or...

Devotee (1): It used to be a musical thing. They'd put pontoons out in the lake.

Kuruśreṣṭha: They would have concerts in there in the past.

Prabhupāda: (break) No mango here?

Kuruśreṣṭha: No mango.

Prabhupāda: What is this? They do not...

Kuruśreṣṭha: Only apples and peaches will grow in this state.

Prabhupāda: Why not mango? The climate is good for mango.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Yuddhe cāpalāyanam. A kṣatriya should be so trained up, when there is fight, he must come out, forward. Not that he will sit down in his secluded place and poor man will fight. No. He should come forward as leader, "Come on." That is kṣatriya quality, yuddhe cāpalāyanam. Formerly there was fight, but the leaders, they would come face to face first of all. And if the leader, one of the leader is killed-yuddha means one party must be vanquished, fight—then the war is finished. The main person, chief person is now killed, so there is no more war. So yuddhe cāpalāyanam. Those who are taking part in administration, in politics, they must be of this quality, very chivalrous, brave. They have to learn all these quality. Just like the first-class men, they are being trained up in self-controlling, controlling the mind, controlling the senses. And these second-class men, they should be trained up how to fight. Because fight will there be. We do not place this bogus idea that there will be no fight. No. Then fight will be there so long the human society is there. But what for one should fight? That training should be there. Not unnecessarily. In the history of India we find there were two fights: one with Rāvaṇa and another the Kurukṣetra fight. (break) Not at the whims of the leaders.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So far Kṛṣṇa consciousness is concerned, you can take it: since five thousand years, when Kṛṣṇa was present, He gave this instruction. But it existed before Kṛṣṇa's instruction. About forty millions of years ago He gave this instruction to the sun-god. That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā:

imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ

proktavān aham avyayam

vivasvān manave prāha

manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt

(BG 4.1)

So if we take up the statement of Bhagavad-gītā, then five thousand years ago this was spoken for the second time, and first time it was spoken forty millions of years ago. Therefore it is permanent, not that something new. It is existing eternally. Sometimes we are missing, and sometimes we are accepting, but it is existing eternally. You cannot trace out the history. Our calculation of history means we are trying to make the eternal time relatively limited with our life. But the time is eternal. We are changing our forms of life many, many million times, but the time is there. So the calculation of past, present, future is relative according to the duration of my life. An ant's past, present, future is not the same past, present, future as of human being. The past, present, future is relative according to the duration of life and body. So Brahma's past, present, future and our past and present, future is not the same. So time is eternal, and past, present, future is calculation of relative knowledge. That is not correct.

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Nitāi: Woman's brain is smaller than a man's brain.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is a fact. In the history there is no woman who is a big philosopher, a big mathematician, big scientist, big educationist. We don't find. They were all men.

Woman reporter: What about women who are leaders of countries such as your own country?

Prabhupāda: Well, according to Vedic conception woman is never offered leadership. But experience has shown that woman's leadership has not been successful.

Woman reporter: Do you think Mrs. Gandhi's leadership has not been successful?

Prabhupāda: Well, there is already trouble. There are many big, big men, they do not agree with her and she has taken emergency steps. So on the whole, the country is in trouble.

Woman reporter: What about Mrs. Meir, president of Israel?

Prabhupāda: I do not say of any particular woman, but according to Vedic civilization, we have never seen in the history that woman has become a leader.

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Harikeśa: Is that in the Vedas also?

Prabhupāda: No, I am talking of the psychology. I have given the name, Dr. W.S. Urquhart. When I was student, he said. So he is a great authority in psychology. So I have given the date. But they say, "Now they have improved." Then what can be said? But they could not improve this position: they have become pregnant. For the last hundred and thousands and millions of years, in the history we hear that woman is pregnant. We never heard the man is pregnant. So where is the progress? If you are actually making progress, so millions of years ago, the history we hear... Even Rāmacandra, millions of years, Lord Rāmacandra. Sītā became pregnant, not Rāmacandra. If you take history, now where is the improvement? Millions of years ago, Rāmacandra. Sītā became pregnant, not Rāmacandra. The law of woman's becoming pregnant, millions of years was there. And what improvement have they made now? They say, "We have made improvement." What is that improvement? Millions of years ago, Sītā, she became pregnant, and Rāmacandra did not become pregnant. Man did not. So what is the improvement at the present moment? Is there any instance, a man is now becoming pregnant. And not the woman? So where is the improvement?

Jagadīśa: Even all species of life it is the same.

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Nowadays may be different, but I am speaking of the Vedic ideas, that woman in all circumstances, unless the husband is crazy or something like that, mad, or..., in every case the instance is that wife is faithful and subservient to the husband. That is the Vedic culture. Even the husband goes out of home, vānaprastha, the wife also goes with him. When he takes sannyāsa, at that time there is no accompaniment of wife. Otherwise in gṛhastha life and even vānaprastha life, the wife is constant companion and subservient. That is the history of Vedic culture. History, Gāndhārī, because her husband was blind, so when the marriage settlement was done, she was not blind, but she voluntarily became blind by wrapping cloth.

Devotee (2): She remained with the cloth wrapped for her whole life?

Prabhupāda: Whole life.

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: But since 1920 to up to date in the history, there have been many great personalities or very prominent personalities, but where is the history that women are greater than the man or are equal to the man in the history?

Satsvarūpa: They have a standard answer to that that the women have always been oppressed, that the women could have become great philosophers and writers and politicians, but they were always kept in the home. So now they're going to change this, they say. It's only due to the man's oppressing them and keeping them down.

Prabhupāda: So this pregnancy is also pressing. The man has pressed to become pregnant? This is man's pressure or nature's?

Brahmānanda: Of course, they will try to stop that. Through contraceptive methods and abortion, they will try to stop having children.

Prabhupāda: But that is not stopping. That is artificially taking some other measures. That is not stopping.

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: I think in Indian history she is the first woman to be in charge of the state. Before her, there is no instance of woman becoming in charge.

Brahmānanda: In Śrī Lanka also, they have woman in charge. That is also considered Indian.

Prabhupāda: According to Manu-saṁhitā, which is Vedic laws, it is said that "Woman is not to be given freedom." They have to be protected. According to Vedic civilization, women, children, old man, brāhmaṇa, and cow—they are to be given protection. The state should give protection. (break) ...the defect of modern civilization is that vox populi.

Nitāi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Everything is passed by popular vote. But that is also defective.

Brahmānanda: You brought that out nicely by giving the example of Nixon. He received the largest popular vote of any president in the history, and he was also then pulled down.

Prabhupāda: Indira Gandhi also. She got the largest number of vote...

Brahmānanda: Even more than her father she received.

Prabhupāda: So what is the value of these votes? If, by vote, if you select a wrong man and again you try to drag him down, then what is the use of this popular vote? Even in Communist country, the, what is called, Krushchev? He was the head. Now nobody knows where he is.

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Non.

Brahmānanda: Well, they consider them not to have existed.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Brahmānanda: It is such a... In that way they have disgraced...

Prabhupāda: Erased from the history.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: ...in the Dallas there is no problem. Educate the girls how to become faithful, chaste wife and how to cook nicely. Let them learn varieties of cooking. Is very difficult? These two qualifications, apart from Kṛṣṇa consciousness, materially they should learn. There are many stories, Nala-Damayantī, then Pārvatī, Sītā, five chaste women in the history. They should read their life. And by fifteenth, sixteenth year they should be married. And if they are qualified, it will be not difficult to find out a nice husband. Here the boys, they do not want to marry because they are not very much inclined to marry unchaste wife. They know it, that "I shall marry a girl, she is unchaste." What do you think?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is psychology. If woman is chaste, even though she is not very beautiful, she will be liked by the husband. So train them in that way: very chaste, faithful wife and knows how to cook very nicely. Other qualification, even they haven't, that's all right. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness is being trained up. Then there will be no difficulty. And boys should be first-class man. Then our Gurukula will be successful. What do you think? Am I right?

Jayatīrtha: Jaya.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So God was there and God's word was there. That is the beginning, our beginning. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Aham evāsam agre. And Bhagavad-gītā, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). This is our philosophy, "Everything begins from God." Now you can say, "Wherefrom God came?" But that is God. God existing, He is not caused by any other cause, He is the original cause. Anādir ādiḥ: "He has no beginning, but He is the beginning of everything." This is conception of God. Anādir ādir govindaḥ (Bs. 5.1). That ādi is Govinda, person, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). We find from the history. Brahmā is the beginning. He is deva, one of the demigods. Kṛṣṇa says, aham ādir hi devānām. So He is the cause of Brahmā also. So this is our philosophy. We don't begin from zero or accident. This is not our philosophy.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1975, Chicago:

Brahmānanda: Actually they are simply interested in bones, but this is the activity of the dog. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, he finds, (laughter) like that. So it is dog's philosophy. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...history in the I.A., intermediate. So a big professor, Dr. Kalidasa Nath, he began to speak, "There was stone age, simply stone there was," in this way. And I immediately..., that "What nonsense you are speaking, stone? There was nothing?" According to the anthropology of Darwin... From the very beginning, when I was a student, I did not believe this Darwin's theory. (break) ...study one after another, chronologically, as Darwin says, skull, it is not possible at all. For any single man it is not possible.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: They must use it. That is nature's arrangement.

Paramahaṁsa: Yeah, right. History.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is nature's arrangement (chuckles) that you all die. That is nature's arrangement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When someone gets some power he wants to try it out. Just like there was that demon. Lord Śiva gave him power: whoever head he touched, the head would fall off.

Prabhupāda: Just like in your country there are so many cars so that a poor man like me has car always, not an inch move on leg. So because there is so many. There are so many cars. So there are so many weapons now. That must be used. That is a natural sequence. They must use it.

Morning Walk -- July 19, 1975, San Francisco:

Paramahaṁsa: In the British historical museum in London, I have seen there's a plate about this large, and half of it is pure gold, and the other half is lead. And they found this. They can't explain. It's just a straight line where they separate, and they can't explain how it was produced. So they're experimenting now to try to change lead because there's only, what is it, one proton or electron in the atom? Different. There's only like one proton difference between lead and gold. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the sky there are many big, big planets where the millions of miles made of gold. Just like desert, there is gold desert.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. We saw coming here a salt desert. There's a whole desert of salt.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Utaḥ. It's called salt flats. There's a great salt lake. And the lake is gradually drying up. And for miles and miles and miles, simply salt.

Prabhupāda: Even in this planet.

Car Conversation -- August 3, 1975, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Our Jayapatāka, he is American. He went to Canada. Baradrāj is Canadian.

Brahmānanda: Baradrāj, yes.

Prabhupāda: And he has come to America. So there was no war between Canadian and American? In the history?

Jagadīśa: Before the countries actually took their present names and boundaries there were some wars between the French and English. The French and the English settled in this area of North America. Sometimes they fought.

Brahmānanda: What percentage of the popu...

Prabhupāda: Formerly Canada was also American?

Jagadīśa: No.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1975, Paris:

Yogeśvara: There is one German historian named Frederick Engels.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he is another foolish. (laughter) I can...

Yogeśvara: He wrote against Vedic culture by saying that even the brāhmaṇas of Vedic culture were not responsible because the culture failed. It ended at a certain period in history. It was simply exploitation of the workers under the guise of religion. That was his argument.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: That was not the fault of the

Prabhupāda: The argument of foolish man—who is caring? Vedic culture when finished?

Yogeśvara: (break) ...five thousand years ago.

Prabhupāda: Five thousand years ago. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu, five hundred years, how He accepted if it is finished? He is more than Caitanya Mahāprabhu, this rascal?

Yogeśvara: Haribol.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1975, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes, another fallacy.

Brahmānanda: For that book he will get two and a half million dollars.

Prabhupāda: About his life history?

Brahmānanda: Yes. He is very sick now. Now he sleeps twelve hours a day.

Prabhupāda: Oh. That is good. (break) He is released from all political obligations or not?

Brahmānanda: From the charges?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: No. Actually he can be called to give testimony.

Prabhupāda: Testimony?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1975, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Find out. First of all He spoke that... If you take history of Bhagavad-gītā, then it comes to forty millions of years ago, at least, He spoke Bhagavad-gītā. How do you calculate? The calculation is there. Any intelligent man can calculate because Brahmā's duration of life is mentioned there. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brāhmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). So one yuga means forty-three lakhs of years and multiply it one thousand. That is Brahmā's duration of one day. Now, in one day there are seven Manus. So Vivasvān Manu's age can be calculated—at least forty millions of years ago. So the Bhagavad-gītā is not a new thing. It was spoken five thousand years ago to Arjuna. That was not the first speaking. He says, "I first spoke to Vivasvān, the sun-god." Yes, show him. (Bengali) ...I am manufacturing something. Everything is there. "If you simply follow, a great, wonderful thing will be done." She is now in a position. Simply she has to take the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā and apply it practically. And that is not very difficult. Just like the Bhagavad-gītā says, annād bhavanti... Parjanyād bhavanti bhūtāni. Make this program, immediately.

Morning Walk -- August 24, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Invented telescope?

Brahmānanda: So they could speculate about the stars and planets. (break)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...all the British names out and replaced them with Italian and Indian and other names.

Tejas: Many Muslim names they have replaced also. Because they are supposed to be historical. (break)

Prabhupāda: This is the road. This is the bus. (break)

Tejas: Many of the members are reading the books now, Śrīla Prabhupāda. One man, he is coming tonight. He has read your Bhagavad-gītā six times now. He is very enthusiastic. Now he is thinking that he has wasted his whole life. That's the way he talks.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he comes to that conclusion, then he becomes perfect.

Tejas: He told me, "I have read so many Bhagavad-gītās previously, but never was the commentation clear. I could not understand the meaning."

Prabhupāda: Yes. They simply jugglery of words.

Morning Walk -- September 6, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Just see. There are books here also, Kāma-śāstra. So sex enjoyment also you cannot enjoy unlimitedly. Then you will become impotent. Then you will have to call your wife as "mother," as some saintly person did. He was indulging in sex in his young age, and when he was married he saw himself impotent, and therefore he invented some way that "I have realized Brahman. I can call my wife also 'mother.' " And he became famous—"Oh, he is so advanced. He has learned how to..." But in the history we will not find this. Even Vyāsadeva had his wife, but he never said his wife, "mother."

Brahmānanda: Actually you're supposed to see other women as mother.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He may be story for you. You may not believe that you have got a father but we are not mad. You can say, "To have a father is a story," but mother says, "No, you have your father." She is authority. You can say, "Oh, it is story."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They want historical evidence for everything.

Brahmānanda: Yes, why doesn't Kṛṣṇa come and do it now?

Prabhupāda: He is not your father's servant, that he will come by your order. He's the supreme master. Kṛṣṇa is doing the same thing still, but you have no eyes to see. Kṛṣṇa is doing. How this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is spreading all over the world?

Brahmānanda: Why doesn't God force me to surrender?

Prabhupāda: No. That Kṛṣṇa is not a nonsense like you. Because Kṛṣṇa has given you little freedom He does not want to touch it. That is Kṛṣṇa. What He gives, He never takes it back. It is not a nonsensical award that "I give you sometimes; then I take it away." Kṛṣṇa does not do such. He has given you little freedom, so you can use it. Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63), Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad..., "Whatever you like, you do." That freedom is taken by nature. You are human being. If you do not engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then nature will withdraw this privilege and you'll become a dog. Kṛṣṇa does not take, but His agent, māyā, will take it away. Just like the police is the agent of the king or the government. The government does not care what you are doing. But if you do something criminal the police will punish you.

Morning Walk -- September 18, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: We are presenting them in English.

Dhṛṣṭaketu: If the Lord's pastimes are..., they are manifested differently, are they manifested the same in each..., in one universe? In this universe are they the same or...? Are they different every time? In other words, is the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam a history of what took place once, and then it will be different next time?

Prabhupāda: That is not different. Each of them are identical.

Dhṛṣṭaketu: But there are new ones also? New pastimes?

Prabhupāda: Everything identical. Now, this grass grown here and this grass grown there, there may be some difference, but they are identical. Harer nāma harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21). (break) ...that professor who has reviewed Caitanya-caritāmṛta?

Brahmānanda: I think it was J. Bruce Long. Cornell University, very respected university.

Prabhupāda: Oh. And what he is there?

Brahmānanda: Professor of Asian Studies. Kirtirāja says that he is considered one of the authorities.

Prabhupāda: Of Indian. Indology.

Morning Walk -- September 29, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: One—there are so many cases. This Lilavati Munshi, this is the same thing. You know that? There is a big history behind this.

Kartikeya: The failures are due to some basic reason. All the big people have failed, and they have not been able to deliver the country or anything because their moral character...

Prabhupāda: No, no, even they have delivered the country, these physical elements you cannot avoid. You cannot avoid unless you are on the transcendental platform, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So long you are on the physical platform, you cannot avoid. It is impossible. (Hindi) Gandhiji... (Hindi)... mistake. (Hindi) "And physical? Oh, you have done this? Fifteen days fasting."

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The seasons are changing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ. The orbit fixed up to the sun by the order of Govinda, that is being followed by him.

Devotee (2): Does the heat of the sun increase or decrease through the ages?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is in the hand of Kṛṣṇa.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But they are thinking He is just a historical figure.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they're rascals. Why do you say like that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11).

Brahmānanda: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

Morning Walk -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: From historical point of view it is copied because Vedas are created by Brahmā long, long, many millions, millions of years, and Bible is created two thousand years. So we have to take the original. All religious system of the world, they are taken from Vedas, from different parts. Therefore they are not complete. The age of Bible is not more than two thousand years. The age of Veda you cannot calculate, millions and millions of years.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why is it, Prabhupāda, that in earlier parts of the Kali-yuga no one like yourself came throughout the rest of the world and preached Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Huh? Preached? Caitanya Mahāprabhu preached. His descendant preached. Why do you say no one preached?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But throughout the rest of the world, places like Japan and Australia...

Prabhupāda: Your calculation of the world. If it is preached anywhere, that is preached on the world. It was not spread, you can say, but it was preached.

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Professor: Now, I just want to say as far as the... I don't think it's necessary for me to sketch the background history of the Indian community of... (break)

Prabhupāda: You have given description. May I ask you one question? The transmigration of the soul, do you take it as science or religion?

Professor: Yes. Here we take it as religion.

Prabhupāda: Then what is your definition of religion?

Professor: My definition of religion is ultimate..., which has to do with your ultimate concern. Ultimate concern. I mean, I can make religion out of... If my ultimate concern is money, then that is my religion, to put it that way. Or ideology and so forth... But it is my ultimate concern, what is my ultimate concern in life. What is my ultimate concern. Every man is religious. He's a homo religiosus, to put it in Latin. He's a religious being. Just as he wants to eat, he has to have religion.

Prabhupāda: So the transmigration of the soul, you take it as religion. It is not a science.

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Faill: Well, I think I have got quite a lot down now. I'll have to go and work it out.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Faill: I'll look up some reference books on the history of the movement and that sort of thing.

Prabhupāda: History, it is not a new movement. You have seen this book. You read that book thoroughly. You will get full knowledge. This movement is very, very old and standard. It is never changed. As soon as you change it, then the potency of the movement is lost.

Faill: Sorry, what was that?

Prabhupāda: Potency. Just like electricity. There is standard regulation: "This is negative; this is positive. You must act like this. You must fix like..." You cannot do whimsically: "No, why not this way? Why not that way?" Then it is lost. Then there will be no electricity. Similarly, there is standard method how to understand this philosophy, how to get it, I mean to say, what is called, authoritatively. Then it will act.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: Victim of European propaganda. He used to take "Anything Indian, bad. Anything Indian, bad." Not only he. Later on, all the so-called educated persons, they took it for granted that "Whatever is done in London, that is first-class, and whatever is Indian original, that is all bad." And they controlled the native princes. So many things. It is a big history, how they killed India's original culture. And then Hindu-Muslim riots, friction, fighting between Hindus and Muslims and dividing them.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: I don’t find. Simply foolishness I accept. And rascal, foolish like you, will believe. (laughter)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They argue that five thousand years ago they have no history, so they think that before that time…

Prabhupāda: "They think." That is their rascaldom.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Formerly there was no civilization. Therefore like monkey.

Prabhupāda: "They think." That is their… We don’t "think." We have got millions of years' history. Why we shall think with them, with these rascals? They may think, the rascal. A child may think like something, but a elderly man will not think like that. Because they are thinking like that, we have to think with them?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Then? Because the rascals are thinking in some way, we have to believe that? First of all let them prove that they are sane men. They are all insane rascals. Why shall I take their words? We are taking words from Kṛṣṇa, who is accepted the Supreme by all the ācāryas, all the great sages. Why shall I go to this rascal Darwin? We are not so fools. We cannot accept.

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: But you cannot change. What is the answer for that? Nobody has been able to change the situation. Who has been able to change the situation? Apart from birth and death, where is the change of situation that there is no more disease? So advanced in science... So why the change of situation is not there? Why people are suffering? You are creating hospital. That's all right. But where is the process that no more disease? Where is the change of situation? That is called punaḥ punaś carvita carvaṇānam (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed. They cannot change the situation and trying again and again, hope against hope. This is their foolishness. Nobody is able to change the situation. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā dura... (BG 7.14). That is not possible, but they will not take it. "Yes, we are trying. Yes, we are trying." Dog's obstinacy. What you are trying? In the history there is no such instance that you have been able to change. It is not possible.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Harikeśa: It also seems like the only government that would work would be the Vedic government. Varnāśrama-dharma is the only thing that will work.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa conscious government means Vedic government.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We have histories that for millions of years such governments were working successfully. Now, for a few thousand years, they squabble, this type of government, that type of government.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, first of all, the government is cheating. He is giving me paper in the name of money, and forcing me to accept it.

Harikeśa: That seems to be the root cause of...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Government is taking labor from you. You ask, "If you pay me three hundred dollars, then I shall work." "All right, I shall give you. Work." Then what is that three hundred? I print and pay you, and you rascal, you accept it, three hundred dollars. What is that three hundred dollars for government? Printing press. And you are so rascal, "Yes, I have got now three hundred dollars." This is going on.

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That is another sign of their rascaldom, that they don't accept that all of their endeavors to maintain the body will be defeated.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are seeing, experiencing. History never says that any man has become immortal, even Hiranyakasipu, and what to speak of these small demons. A great demon like Hiranyakasipu, he could not, and what to speak of these tiny demons? One kick is sufficient to kill them.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They never say that.

Prabhupāda: The European lady will never take a burden on head like this, but Indians, they do. Even respectable family woman, they also carry on the head. You will find many Gujarati. Simple living is natural.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How is it that the Europeans especially, they have become the vanguard of rascal culture?

Prabhupāda: Because they are rākṣasas. They are eating meat and drinking wine and illicit sex. Rākṣasa civilization. Hiraṇyakaśipu means... Hiraṇya means gold, and kaśipu means soft bed. To learn, this is rākṣasa civilization. They are searching after soft bed and gold mine, hiraṇya.

Morning Walk -- November 7, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...but without education, without qualification, he wants to become a brāhmaṇa. They are called brahma-bandhu or dvija-bandhu. So Mahābhārata is meant for the, these persons: stri-śūdra-dvija-bandhunam. They cannot understand directly the Vedic injunctions; therefore it is simplified in a history. Mahābhārata is the history. History and stories, ordinary people, they can read with interest. But those who are advanced, they want higher philosophical thoughts. That is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ vāstava-vastu vedyam atra (SB 1.1.2). Nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalam idam (SB 1.1.3). It is meant for higher class. So there are different literatures for different persons. Why there are eighteen Purāṇas, sattvic, rajasic, tamasic? Those who are tamasic, for them it is advised...

Dr. Patel: Devī Purāṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Yes, you can eat meat. There is no harm. But you get it sacrificed before Goddess Kali." But this is not meant for the high-class brāhmaṇa. This is meant for the third-class dvija. But still, he is induced to accept some authority. In this way there are Purāṇas. Somebody is recommended to worship Lord Śiva, somebody is recommended to worship Kali, Durga, Sarasvatī, many demigods.

Morning Walk -- November 14, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is Indian old fashion. They simply know how to test jewels and gold. That's all. One knowledge makes him rich.

vyavasāyātmikā buddhir

ekeha kuru-nandana

bahu-śākhā hy anantāś ca

buddhayo 'vyavasāyinām

(BG 2.41)

Avyavasāyinām bahu-śākha. And vyavasāyayinām-one. From practical point of view, from business point of view also, I started this Kṛṣṇa conscious business with forty rupees. Now we have forty crores. Who has got such business success? (laughter) Bring anyone. Within ten years. And here is Ambarīṣa Mahārāja. He is ready to give us any money, any amount of money, Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, yes, whole Ford Company. (laughter) So who has got this business? Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. I think there is no such history in the world, to begin business with forty rupees, and within ten years it becomes forty crores. One cannot imagine even.

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Recent history is that he did not die. He came to Kashmir.

Dr. Patel: Came to Kashmir. There is a tomb in Kashmir. I read some literature about it. His resurrection... They say that they smuggled him out of that cave. It is possible. When he was on the cross, he...

Prabhupāda: No, even by yoga system...

Dr. Patel: He must have gone in a trance.

Prabhupāda: He lived by trance.

Dr. Patel: He was a great devotee. There is no doubt about it.

Prabhupāda: By trance.

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Brahmānanda is very much pleased. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: I don't know who are they, but that is a fact. When you look back to the history, it's the really choicest race.

Yaśomatīnandana: Girirāja is also from.

Dr. Patel: Whatever he may be. I don't know them, who are they. But historically we look back. They are really very brave people. They have died for the sake of their principle. Never budge an inch.

Brahmānanda: But they are impersonalists.

Dr. Patel: Impersonalist or personalist is immaterial. (laughter) I mean I talk of boldness, very bold people. Truthful to their conviction. Truthful to their conviction, sir.

Prabhupāda: They are so bold that, Shylock?

Brahmānanda: Yeah, yeah, the flesh.

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Islam is also...

Dr. Patel: History, it has spread. Even Bali Islands today are practicing Hinduism.

Brahmānanda: Aryan means change in consciousness to God consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: This means all over the world there can be an Aryan culture.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is right.

Dr. Patel: Today the world is dominated by Aryans, all over practically. Except in Central Africa.

Prabhupāda: Today the whole world is dominated by demons.

Dr. Patel: Today. The Aryans have become demons.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That... Anyone can become demon. A demon can become Aryan, and Aryan can become demon by culture.

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: So that is described in the Bhāgavatam, that they will be embarrassed with so many problems. That is not a communistic idea. That is the future of Kali-yuga. That is mentioned in the Bhāgavatam. Āchinna-dāra-draviṇā gacchanti giri-kānanam. They will be harassed by famine, taxation, and starvation. Naturally they will be disappointed. Āchinna. That is already told.

Haṁsadūta: Marx, he studied history from a given point and then he just calculated the consequences.

Prabhupāda: No, that point is not new point. It is already stated five thousand years ago. So what credit he has got? If I say, "Now you are thirty-four years. At the end of hundred years you will die," is that discovery?

Haṁsadūta: No. But that was...

Prabhupāda: Everyone knows it. Everyone knows it.

Haṁsadūta: But for this he's got so much credit because he said this.

Prabhupāda: So he gets credit from the rascals and fools. That's all.

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Tejās: It's deteriorating.

Prabhupāda: Yes, very much deteriorating. It means finished. The kalā is finished now. You see? Now, "Natural History." So many dead stone they have brought, and so costly building, and showing "natural history." This is going on, simply cheating and bluffing at the cost of poor man's blood. Against this principle the communist movement is good. There are so many buildings, but there is not a single building where spiritual culture is discussed, although it is the real basis of life. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...and not getting sufficient milk, their growth is checked. This is kalākendra.

Harikeśa: They have powdered milk.

Prabhupāda: That is simply cheating, powdered milk. It is white water, that's all. Powdered milk means white water. It has no value.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is not story. It is history...

Dr. Patel: No, no, some are stories and divya stories.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is history and philosophy. They are not stories. Where it is a story, it is mentioned it is like a story. Just like this bhāvārthābdhi.. That is mentioned there. There are many such statements which is not history, but, what is called? Instruction. But they take everything, "It is fabulous."

Dr. Patel: From the lives from the so many saints, and...

Prabhupāda: (Sanskrit) If you want to be learned, then you have to read Bhāgavatam. Vidvāṁś cakre satvata. Vidvāṁ means Vyāsadeva. He compiled Bhāgavatam for the education of these rascals. Na te vidhuḥ svārtha-gatim. The same thing. They do not know what is their self-interest. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi visnu. And another place, anartha. This is anartha.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: And when you read Bhāgavata you also get the sat-saṅga, because the, all the histories of so many saints...

Prabhupāda: Yes, Cānakya Paṇḍita also advised: kalau durajana samsagyam bhaja sādhu samārgama(?). This is..., he was a politician, and still he said, kalau durajana samsagyam bhaja sādhu samārgama, and smara nityam anityada kuru punyam avoratram. This is his advise, that give up this bad association of atheist class of man. Sadhu means devotee. Durajana means nondevotee. So kalau durajana samsagyam bhaja sādhu samārgama. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says like that. When He was asked by one gṛhastha bhakta, "What is the duty of a Vaiṣṇava?" Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately said, asat-saṅga tyāgī ei vaiṣṇava acāra. A Vaiṣṇava means he must give up the association of nondevotees. Then the question will be, "Who is nondevotee?" Asat-strī-saṅgī kṛṣṇa bhakta... One who is too much attached to material enjoyment. Strī-saṅgī is the basic point, and one who is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he is asat-saṅga. Asat-saṅga-tyāgī..., there are two lines. And the moralist, Cānakya Paṇḍita, he also said, kalau durajana samsagyam bhaja sādhu samārgama. You give up something, you must take something. Otherwise you will not be able to stay.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Harikeśa: Yes. So I have to find out the means to enjoy, and to negate the pain and to make the pleasure more.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's very nice proposal, but whether, at the present moment, or in the history, whether a man is enjoying life or suffering?

Harikeśa: Well, men, men have actually never really enjoyed because they never understood enough about themselves. They were never able to overcome their difficulties due to ignorance.

Prabhupāda: So then the next question will be that how to become enjoyable, or how to enjoy? The next question is.... There may be different thesis. So our thesis is that we are trying to enjoy life by covering ourself. The crude example.... Just like sometimes before, the.... It may be nowadays also current. The contraceptive method was by using one cover. Do you know that?

Harikeśa: Hmh.

Prabhupāda: What is called?

Harikeśa: Prophylactic.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: Well, presently or.... That is another foolishness. The, the body and the moving active principle is eternally existing. It is not that formerly the body did not stop acting. It is dead. Study the whole history of human beings, any being—the death is always there. Then what is modern effort? Birth, death, old age, disease. They're always existing. Why do they say "modern"? This is eternal fact. Why they should say it is modern?

Harikeśa: Well, it's the present culmination of synthesis and antithesis.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is their imperfect knowledge. They do not know. What is thesis, what is antithesis, and the synthesis, they do not know. As philosophers, they have found out the three things. But so far the solution of the problem of human society.... You cannot solve the problems of animals' society. That is not possible. So this thesis can be understood by human beings. The animals cannot understand it, that within this body the soul is there. On account of presence of the soul, everything is going on, bodily affair. This thesis cannot be understood by the animals. So if you cannot understand, then you are also animal, although you are two-legged. So what is the value of your thesis, antithesis? You are animal.