Hiranyakasipu (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"hiranyakasipoh" |"hiranyakasipor" |"hiranyakasipu" |"hiranyakasipu's" |"hiranyakasipuh" |"hiranyakasipum" |"hiranyakasipur" |"hiranyakasipus" |"hiranyakasipus"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Prabhupada Comments on Prahlada Maharaja Slides - August 25, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: So there is difference of interest. I want to be lord, you want to be lord: now there must be fight. But in the Vaikuṇṭha world there is one Lord and all others servitors. Therefore there is peace. So fighting was not possible in the Vaikuṇṭha world; therefore these two doorkeepers were sent to the material world by the plan of the Supreme Lord so that they could fight as Hiraṇyakaśipu and Hiraṇyākṣa with the Lord. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Now the spiritual spark is entering into the material world, penetrating seven layers. This is called avyakta, nonmanifested. Just like in the sky there are nonmanifested and manifested things. If you go high, some 25,000, fifty thousand miles up, you'll simply find in the sky nothing manifested. But if you go still higher, higher, higher, you will find some other planets existing. So the part which is nonmanifested is called avyakta, and the part which is manifested, that is called vyakta. So these two souls from Vaikuṇṭha, they are coming into this material world. So they're penetrating the nonmanifested matter. As the matter... Five elements—earth, water, fire, air, ether. And then... These are gross elements. And there are subtle elements: mind, intelligence, ego. And then spiritual.

Prabhupada Comments on Prahlada Maharaja Slides - August 25, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: What special qualification of God?" This is demonic principle. So there is always... Not now, there is always fighting between the gods and the demons. So when these demons grew up with full-fledged strength by the grace of the Lord, so they fought with the demigods in other planets. And sometimes the demons became victorious, sometimes the gods became victorious. So when the gods became victorious, Hiraṇyakaśipu, his wife was arrested. At that time, his wife was pregnant, and the demigods arresting the wife of Hiraṇyakaśipu were dragging her to take her into their, I mean to say, planet. In the meantime, Nārada Muni met. Nārada Muni asked them, "What you are doing? This innocent woman you are dragging?" They replied that, "The woman is innocent, I know," the head of the demigods, Indra, "but she is pregnant, and the child is born of the demon. So we shall keep this woman under our custody, and as soon as the child is born we shall kill him. That is our program. We are not going to do any harm to the woman." So Nārada Muni informed that "This child, although he's born of a demon father, he's a great devotee. He's a great devotee, and do not try to kill. Neither you can kill him. This is not possible." But the demigods, they accept the instruction of the authority. Nārada is an authority. So immediately they accepted that "This woman has got a child who is a great devotee." So in order to show respect to the child, they offered their obeisances and circumambulated the mother and they left the woman. They went to their own places. And Nārada advised the wife of Hiraṇyakaśipu, "My dear daughter, you don't worry. I shall give you protection. Your husband has gone away. So long he does not come back, I will give you protection. You come to my āśrama." So he took the woman to his āśrama, and as it is the duty of saintly persons to instruct about God and His activities, so he was daily explaining about God and His activities, and the child was hearing from the womb of his mother. The mother was anxious to give protection to the child, but the child was fortunate that he was hearing directly from the Nārada. And as a result of this, when the child came out of the womb of his mother he became a great devotee... (break) So will it go on, still more?

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Prabhupāda: But that frustration has no disappointment. (laughter) That is the beauty. Just like Lord Caitanya is manifesting that spiritual frustration. "Oh Kṛṣṇa, I could not see You." He's jumping on the sea in frustration. But that frustration is the highest perfection of love. Yes. Everything is there. But without inebriety. You are very intelligent boy. I thank you. Yes. Yes. There is frustration, but not this frustration. Yes. That frustration, I mean to say, enriches one's eagerness of love for Kṛṣṇa. Everything is there, but without inebriety. Everything is there. Yes. Now see, Viṣṇu? Of course, in Vaikuṇṭha-jagat there is no violence. But Viṣṇu is taking the symbol of violence. Otherwise what is the meaning of this disc and club? So when He wants to be violent, He comes here as Nṛsiṁha-mūrti. (laughter) And He sends some of His devotees to play violence. That is Hiraṇyakaśipu. Because there the devotees are so much in accord with Kṛṣṇa and Viṣṇu that there is no question of disagreement. But violence is when this disagree-ment, atheist. Therefore sometimes a devotee is deputed in this world to play as atheist, and Kṛṣṇa comes to kill him. To teach these people that "If you become atheist, then here is disc and club for you." But it is not possible to be displayed in the Vaikuṇṭha. Otherwise, if there is no the propensity of violence... Just like there is sometimes mock fight. A father is fighting in mock with a small child, and he has become defeated. But there is pleasure. So ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). The Lord is joyful. So there is joy in fighting also sometimes. So your question that everything is there, that is a fact. Everything is there.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Śyāmasundara: Just like Kaṁsa!

Prabhupāda: Hiraṇyakaśipu. Gold and women.

Śyāmasundara: Kaṁsa hated Kṛṣṇa and he wanted to kill him but all he could think about was Kṛṣṇa. So somehow or other it boils down that one somehow has to become Kṛṣṇa conscious under some process.

Dr. Weir: (indistinct) even other people, not using that name.

Śyāmasundara: (indistinct) It's God consciousness.

Dr. Weir: That's what I say Unitarians apparently by having so much of this in their (indistinct) in quite a different way from a different philosophy. And, of course, you begin to feel that they must be very (indistinct) because they were so persecuted. If a person is no real menace to you, you don't have to persecute him. I think Socrates and Christ are perfect examples of that.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Dr. Weir: I think that's been most fascinating, Swami, very kind of you, indeed.

Prabhupāda: Thank you.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: So he became so strong that when he was traveling in the state, everyone was trembling. So very strong king. In this way, when he became too much powerful, then he began to preach atheism. That is the way. The rākṣasī, the demonic way is there. If a demon becomes powerful—just like nowadays it is going on—somehow or other if somebody becomes powerful, he doesn't care for the śāstric injunction or religion or God. They don't care for it. Just like there are many instances, Rāvaṇa, Hiraṇyakaśipu, like that. So he also became like that. Then he began to order

na yaṣṭavyaṁ na dātavyaṁ

na hotavyaṁ dvijāḥ kvacit

iti nyavārayad dharmaṁ

bherī-ghoṣeṇa sarvaśaḥ

(SB 4.14.6)

By bugle announcement. In your country, I do not know, maybe. It is here in India still existing that if some public announcement has to be done, one takes a drum or bugle, he stands in one place and bugles or beats the drum, people when gathered they announce something that "This will be done. This is the order of the king or the state." Is there any such system in England?

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: I found, specifically what I mean, is some was too spicy and hurt my stomach.

Prabhupāda: Well, that is also due to ... not appreciate. But Kṛṣṇa should be... The cook should have consideration that Kṛṣṇa must be offered first-class foodstuff. So if he offers something last class, that is not his duty. But Kṛṣṇa can accept anything if it is offered by a devotee, and a devotee also can accept any prasādam, even if it is spicy. (break) Hiraṇyakaśipu gave his son poison and he drank it nectarine. So for the devotee even it is spicy to other taste, it is very palatable to the devotee. What is the question of spicy? He was offered poison, real poison. (break) ...she also offered Kṛṣṇa poison, but Kṛṣṇa's so nice that "She took Me as My mother." So He took the poison and delivered her. Kṛṣṇa does not take the bad side. Any good man, he does not take the bad side; he takes only the good side. (break) He wanted to make business with my Guru Mahārāja. But he did not take the bad side. He took the good side that "He has come forward to give me some service. So whatever he wanted he gave him."

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Śyāmasundara: Oh. That's right.

Prabhupāda: Because God knows beyond this willing orbit, nobody can think of. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu. He thought that "I can save myself by this way. I shall not die night, in daytime, or I shall not die in the sky. I shall not die in the water. I shall not die on land. No man can kill me. No animal can kill me. No demigod can kill me." In this way he thought, "Oh." But still, keeping all the promises, he was made to die. So there is no such thing as chance without plan.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Devotee (1): This is all in one.

Prabhupāda: This is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. If somebody is thinking, "If I had like this, like that, like that, like that." "All right you will have all." (laughter) Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu wanted to save himself in this way, that... "Yes, all are granted," but still he had to die. All granted. So we are trying to take facilities from Kṛṣṇa beginning from "O God, give us our daily bread, then give me motorcar, then give me airplane, then give me this, give me that." "Take all, but you will never be happy unless you surrender to Me. You take all." This is going on. The modern civilization, they are wanting, "We may have this, we may have that, we may have this, we may have that." "Yes, you take all. But don't talk of happiness, please." That is the only problem. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66), if you want this. Otherwise, you take whatever you like.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: Doesn't negate it.

Prabhupāda: No. Fact is fact. Whether you believe or not believe. It doesn't matter. Hiraṇyakaśipu thought that: "I shall not die on the land, on the water, on the sky." But death was there. Asuric, this is asuric thinking. (pause)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's called captivation by the illusory energy.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The illusory...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, ignorance. (pause) What is time?

Brahmānanda: Six-thirty-five. (pause)

Devotee: (inaudible)

Prabhupāda: Hmmm?

Devotee: (inaudible)

Prabhupāda: They were still alive...

Devotee: ...in a human form.

Prabhupāda: Yes, for Kṛṣṇa, there is no such consideration, human form or plant form or... Everyone is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Why you are anxious to know about the human form? Why? Eh? What is your answer? Question: Tulasī devī should be in human form. Why you are asking this question?

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, what they can do? Because they're rascal, foolish, just like children, they'll simply make their body dirty. That's all. He does not know anything. If you bring a small children, what they will do? They'll take this... You see. he does not know anything. He's a rascal. Similarly you scientists, you are all rascals. You do not know anything. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed, making research. What research you can do? You do not know anything. What research you can do? And Vedic injunction is: yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). If you know the Absolute Truth, then all other things become known. But you do not know what is Absolute Truth. Therefore you are in ignorance. If you know one thing, then you... Just like you are talking. We are not official scientists or philosopher or anything. But why you are challenging, you are talking so boldly? Because we know one thing, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we can say so boldly and challenge anyone. I'm not a D.A.C. like you. How I can challenge you? I'm challenging you. How? Because I know Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is the statement of Veda. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you know Kṛṣṇa, the Absolute Truth, then all other things will be known automatically. It is such a thing. We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, challenging all kinds of men in the society, so many scientists are coming, so many psychologists coming. So how we are confident to talk with him? Because we have learned little about Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Is it not? You are a qualified scientist. Why I challenge you? Not that because you are my disciple, you are accepting all my challenges. You have got your reasons. You are not a fool. So how it is possible? Practically, how it is possible? Because we are trying to know little about Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Therefore this Vedic injunction, yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati, yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. These statements are there. If you get Kṛṣṇa, then you will not hanker after any more profit. Bas. All profit is there. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābham. If you get Kṛṣṇa, then all other kinds of profit, you'll not hanker after. And what kind of profit this is? Yasmin sthito na duḥkhena guruṇāpi vicālyate (Bg. 6.20-23). If one is situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in the greatest calamity of this world, he'll not be disturbed. This is the greatest profit. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. A big giant, Hiraṇyakaśipu, is putting him always in difficulty, but he's confident: "Yes, there is Kṛṣṇa." A five years old boy. He's not at all disturbed. Father is giving poison. "All right, give me poison." And throwing him from the hill on down. But he is steady. How it is possible? Na duḥkhena guruṇāpi vicālyate. Guru. Guru means heavy, very heavy difficulties. But na vicālyate. He's not perturbed, not disturbed. How it is possible? It is such a thing, that if you know Kṛṣṇa, you know everything. If you are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you are not disturbed in the heaviest type of calamity. So these things should be given to the human society. One thing. That will make his life perfect. Is it not?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Malcolm -- July 18, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: If you do not believe, if the father does not believe? You mean to say?

Malcolm: If the father does not feel.

Prabhupāda: Yes well, everything is individual. Father is individual and child is individual. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu.

Malcolm: Can a father impose on a child, something which he does not believe himself.

Prabhupāda: No Kṛṣṇa consciousness is transcendental position. Once one gets a little touch with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he'll make progress. Just like the wick in a firework. Firework, a big, what is called? (sic:) Pottatter?

Haṁsadūta: Firecracker.

Prabhupāda: Crack. The long wick, you just set fire: (makes sound:) tille, tille, tille, tille, tille, and when it comes: tung! (laughter) It is like that. You just set up the fire and then one day he'll become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Discussion about Guru Maharaji -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So he should be insulted everywhere. Our men should go and do that, pie. (laughter) And when you have to (indistinct) He's God. Why can't you protect. He should have been killed. We have no such power. Otherwise, I would have obliged to kill him. Anyone says God, he should be killed. That is the example given by Kṛṣṇa. He should be killed. No other remedy. Only kill him. That's all. Then this false propaganda will stop. Just like the Christians said: Jesus Christ, God. And how God can be killed by crucification? We do not discuss this point, but actually this is the fact. He was empowered man, that we can understand. But we cannot accept him God. In our history, God is never killed. God kills others. That we have got evidence. And ordinary men, they took him, and crucified, and nobody, other, of the opposite party was killed. So that makes a little difference. So far son of God, that we accept. Everyone is son of God. We accept him śaktyāveśa avatāra, a living entity especially powered from God. That we can accept. So son of God we can accept. That is another thing. And where is the evidence in the śāstras that God was killed? Big, big giant, God fought them and killed them. Rāvaṇa, Hiraṇyakaśipu, Kaṁsa. Very, very great giant and demon. God was never killed by them. Is it not? Yes. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that: "What is this material power. My father was so materially strong. Even demigods and Indra, Candra, they were afraid. And He killed him within a moment. So what is the use of this material power?" And the God could not kill these crucifiers? As soon as they attempted to kill, there would have, He has, would have fought. He had to show some power. And they say that he agreed to take all our sin, and he crucified. Is it not? They say?

Haṁsadūta: Yes, this is the idea.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1973, Delhi:

Guest: We give it at home, because we told her whatever she wanted to put things, mūrtis, other things, we have installed it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, let her enjoy this devotional life. She has developed it. It is a fortune for you because if one member of the family becomes a devotee of the Lord he can deliver all the members. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. Prahlāda Mahārāja, his father was Hiraṇyakaśipu, a demon.

Guest: I know.

Prabhupāda: Demon. Demon. (laughs) Prahlāda Mahārāja when he was asked, "Take benediction, whatever you like", he said, "Sir, what benediction I shall take? I have seen the benediction of my father. He was so powerful even the demigods trembled by his red eyes and You finished it within a second. So what is the value of this benediction? Kindly engage me in Your service." Then Prahlāda Mahārāja he did not ask anything for himself, but later on he asked Nṛsiṁha-deva, "Sir, my Lord, one request I can make. My father was great demon, he was against You, but still I pray that his liberation will be granted."

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Self-destruction.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate... (BG 8.19) (break) ...if somebody dies out of Kṛṣṇa's anger, he also goes to Vaikuṇṭha.

Hṛdayānanda: Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this Hiraṇyakaśipu's mother, when she understood that his son should be so rogue and then, when she was informed that "After all, your sons will be killed by God," she was very satisfied. "Oh, then it is all right. Never mind." Because she knew, killing by God means he's going to Vaikuṇṭha. Just like cursed by Nārada Muni, Yamala-Arjuna, they saw Kṛṣṇa. By cursing of Nārada, although for some time they had to remain as tree, but still they got the opportunity of seeing Kṛṣṇa.

Hṛdayānanda: Dāmodara.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Dāmodara.

Devotee: Everybody is concerned with peace. Do people like Guruji, because they're such rascals...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee: Like Guruji, this young boy, do they constitute a threat to peacefulness in society?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Disturbance.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The devotees should wish that "O my Lord, please..."

Prabhupāda: Devotees must pray that "This great demon Hiraṇyakaśipu may be killed by You, my Lord." Therefore He comes. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja passively... (break) ...father was being killed. He could have stopped it, but he did not. He did not. If Prahlāda Mahārāja would have requested, immediately it would have been stopped, but he did not. He said, rather, in his prayer, that "Nobody is sorry when a serpent or a scorpion is killed." He said like that. So he said, "My father was just like a serpent and scorpion. Now he is killed. So now You become pacified. No more need of becoming angry." Modeta sādhur api. Actually, I have seen. There was a snake in our Māyāpur temple. So Guru Mahārāja was standing on the..., while some devotees were waiting. "Yes, kill it." So at that time I could not understand that "Such a saintly person why he is ordering to kill a snake?" Then when I found in Bhāgavata, modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā: (SB 7.9.14) "A saintly person also becomes engladdened when a snake is killed." Because it is very harmful. He said that "He will do so many harmful activities. Better kill him." Because his business is to create harm. That's all.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Yaśomatīnandana: ...told everybody that he saw Kṛṣṇa, and the people knew... (laughter) Right, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: His father could not. His father could not.

Yaśomatīnandana: My father couldn't know Him.

Yaduvara: Hiraṇyakaśipu. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Prahlāda's father, he could not see. But Prahlāda sees.

Dr. Patel: I think greatest bhakta was Prahlāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: I read it, this in this,...

Yaśomatīnandana: So it does not matter whether one is baby or one is a big man.

Dr. Patel: It's just a joke (indistinct) because...

Prabhupāda: Ahaituky apratihatā.

Dr. Patel: I mean, all-powerful God can be anything. God can assume form, God can remain formless. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...by (indistinct).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Vallabhācārya himself?

Prabhupāda: It is recorded in the court. There was a court case, and it was found that Gopālajī belongs to the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: He gives intelligence that, dadami buddhi-yogam.

Prabhupāda: Ah. And what kind of buddhi-yoga?

Dr. Patel: "By which you can reach Me."

Prabhupāda: Yes. By which he can go back to home, back to Godhead. That kind of buddhi-yoga. Not this buddhi-yoga, how to exploit the whole world and become Hiranyakasipu.

Dr. Patel:

teṣām evānukampārtham

aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ

nāśayāmy ātma-bhāva-stho

jñāna-dīpena bhāsvatā

(BG 10.11)

Prabhupāda: Teṣām. Who are those, teṣām? Not all. Satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, teṣām. It is a special favor for them. Teṣām evānukampārtham. So if Kṛṣṇa dissipates ignorance from the heart of a person, how he can be less intelligent? If somebody is guided by the most perfect intellect, intellectual, then how he can be less intelligent? So these Māyāvādīs' accusation that bhakti is meant for the less intelligent class and jñāna is meant for the higher class of men, so this accusation is refuted that "No, don't think that the devotees are less intelligent, because I am guiding them."

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Nitāi: (reading) "In the Gītā it is clearly mentioned that material energy works fully under the direction of the Supreme Lord. It has no independent authority. It works as the shadow moves in accordance with the movements of the object, but still, material energy is very powerful, and the atheist, due to his godless temperament, cannot know how it works, nor can he know the plan of the Supreme Lord. Under illusion and the modes of passion and ignorance, all his plans are baffled, as in the case of Hiraṇyakaśipu and Rāvaṇa, whose plans were smashed to dust although they were both materially learned as scientists, philosophers, administrators and educators. These duṣkṛtinas or miscreants are of four different patterns as outlined below. Number one. The mūḍhas: those who are grossly foolish like hard working beasts of burden. They want to enjoy the fruits of their labor by themselves and do not want to part with them for the Supreme. The typical example of the beast of burden is the ass. This humble beast is made to work very hard by his master. The ass does not really know for whom he works so hard day and night. He remains satisfied by filling his stomach with a bundle of grass, sleeping for a while under fear of being beaten by the master, and satisfying his sex appetite at the risk of being repeatedly kicked by the opposite party. The ass sings poetry and philosophy sometimes, but this braying only disturbs others. This is the position of the foolish fruitive worker who does not know for whom he should work. He does not know that karma, action, is meant for yajña, sacrifice. Most often, those who work very hard day and night to clear the burden of self-created duties say that they have no time to hear of the immortality of the living being. To such mūḍhas, material gains, which are destructible, are life's all in all, despite the fact that the mūḍhas enjoy only a very small fraction of the fruit of labor. Sometimes they spend sleepless days and nights for fruitive gain, and although they may have ulcers or indigestion, they are satisfied with practically no food. They are simply absorbed in working hard day and night for the benefit of illusory masters. Ignorant of their real master, the foolish workers waste their valuable time serving mammon. Unfortunately, they never surrender to the supreme master of all masters, not do they take time to hear of Him from the proper sources."

Prabhupāda: Generally, we see now, especially in the western countries, they are working so hard. The master is wine and woman. That's all. Is it not? They have made their master wine and women. In Paris we see everywhere. On the street they are drinking and talking. In Germany also, I have seen. You have been in Germany?

Devotee: Amsterdam is the same way.

Prabhupāda: Amsterdam is a place simply for prostitutes.

Devotee: It is the center.

Prabhupāda: This is very prominent in the western country, which we are asking, that no meat-eating, no intoxication, no illicit sex. These things are only thing enjoyable.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: You want to be independent?

Haṁsadūta: He says that "I guess we are not independent of our death."

Prabhupāda: That's it. Very... Thank you. (laughter) That is intelligence. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). Those who are not accepting God in lifetime, they will meet God, death. Death is another form of God. That they cannot deny. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu. He simply defied God, and Nṛsiṁha-deva came, finished everything within a second.

Reporter: Is this something where we can sort of experience death while we are still alive?

Prabhupāda: Alive, we have been given chance to understand God. But if you don't understand, then next life you become a dog.

Reporter: A dog?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter)

Reporter: Why a dog?

Prabhupāda: Why not? (laughter) Suppose if God says that "You become a dog," can you check it?

Reporter: Is there any way I can prepare...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that you can if you surrender.

Reporter: If I...?

Prabhupāda: If you surrender.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: That's the cheating propensity.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In material world they have come to imitate God—adoration, fame, material profit. Just like this man. He has come to this country. He is getting money, he is getting woman, and becoming God amongst the fools. He is satisfied. That's all. This is not gain? If I get woman, money, and adoration, is it not gain for me?

Gaṇeśa: Yes, just like Hiraṇyakaśipu.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Materialistic man means he wants all these things in different way. Somebody is becoming God, somebody is becoming philosopher, somebody is becoming scientist, in this way. Real purpose is these three things. Abha-pūjā-pratiṣṭhā. And our philosophy? We don't want anything of this. Just see. Negation. Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). Say... All denial, "We don't want." That is Vaiṣṇavism. Then what do you want? "We want simply to serve Kṛṣṇa." This is our position. They don't want to serve Kṛṣṇa; they want to imitate Kṛṣṇa. And that is their satisfaction.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Gaṇeśa: I think they want to interpret Bhagavad-gītā because they do not want to surrender to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That is the idea. That is the real purpose. They want to kill Kṛṣṇa. That is the endeavor of Hiranyakasipu, Kamsa, that "We shall kill Kṛṣṇa." And ultimately they become killed. Their faith is like that.

Amogha: Their whole idea of Indian history, of Vedic history, is completely perverted. When we say five thousand years ago Vyāsadeva compiled this in writing, they say, "There was no civilization five thousand..." They said, "Only two thousand years ago there was some tribes, and they were not very moral," and things like this, all completely nonsense, because they misread the Bhāgavata and things like this. And then they teach some of the students these crazy ideas. Not all of them, but I talked to some who teach like this.

Prabhupāda: The more you fight with these rascals, the more you advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You are a fighting soldier. Kṛṣṇa very much appreciates. (long pause) So you take Bhagavad-gītā by your own interpretation, and I take Bhagavad-gītā as it is. So who is right? Who will decide this? You interpret in your own way. I don't interpret. I take it as it is. Now we are two parties. So who is correct?

Amogha: They say because so many others...

Prabhupāda: No, no, there are two parties. That's all. Others means one who interprets, that is one party. And there is one party who does not interpret. So who is correct?

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Nescience, yes. That is pravṛtti and nivṛtti. Pravṛtti means sense enjoyment. And nivṛtti means self-negation. So when we say that "You shall not have illicit sex," and their inclination is illicit sex, so therefore it is revolutionary. They are materialistic persons. They want sex enjoyment to the best capacity-homosex, this sex, that sex, naked dance, all sexually inclined, pravṛtti. And we say, "Stop this," nivṛtti. They do not like it because āsura. Pravṛtti jagat. They do not know this is essential. They do not know it. This is essential. Tapasā brahmacaryena (SB 6.1.13). Tapasya means brahmacarya. The so-called swamis, they are coming for this so-called yoga practice and..., but they are themself victim of sex. This is going on. Actually, it is a bluff—they have become swami and teaching some yoga system—because they do not know that one has to stop this first of all. Brahmacaryena. So this bluffing is going on all over the world, and we are speaking just against them. Murkhayopadeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye. If you give instruction to the rascals, he will simply be angry. He will not take advantage of it. This is our position. All the so-called professors, philosophers, they are all in the pravṛtti-mārga. Therefore they are bringing somebody, "Our interpretation is like this." Pravṛtti-mārga. Because if they can find out some support from the śāstra, then they think, "We are secure." This is going on. Pravṛttim ca nivṛttim janā na vidur āsurāḥ. The whole world is full of asuras, descendant of Hiraṇyakaśipu, and it is very difficult. But if we give them chance to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, gradually they will understand. (pause) Our difficulty: the so-called swamis, priests, popes, they are also in the pravṛtti-mārga. All these, priests, and they have illicit sex. Pravṛtti-mārga. So they are passing, "Yes, you can have homosex with man." They are getting man-to-man marriage. You know? They are performing the marriage ceremony between man to man in the open church. What class of men they are? And they are priest. Just see. Such degraded persons, drinking... They have got hospital for curing their drinking disease. Five thousand patients in a hospital in America, all drunkards, and they are priest. Just see. Simply by dressing long, what is called, overcoat?

Śrutakīrti: Cloak.

Morning Walk -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Madhudviṣa: And the demigods we cannot see. Like the demigods, the higher human species, we cannot see.

Prabhupāda: You, why do you believe on your seeing? That is the defect. That is the defect of the Westerners. They are very deficient; still they say, "I cannot see." What is your seeing power? Suppose if Nārada comes, some demigods come, but you cannot see. Just like when Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva appeared, Prahlāda was seeing. "Is your God here?" "Yes." And he could not see. So why do you believe so much on your seeing? You have to attain seeing power. That is very good example, Prahlāda... Hiraṇyakaśipu asking Prahlāda, "Where is your God?" "My God is everywhere." "He is on the pillar?" "Yes." So he was seeing, but he was not seeing. He became angry and broke the pillar. "Let me see, where is your God." This is the position. So one has to create the eyes to see things. Not that whatever eyes you have got you can see everything. No. Just like motorcar is being driven, a child is seeing that the car is running automatically. And the father is seeing, "No, there is driver."

So the seeing of the child and seeing of the father is different. In our childhood we were thinking that in the gramophone box there is a man. And the fan there is a ghost. (laughter) I remember quite. "How these records are being played? There must be one man. He is singing." And the electric fan was running, I was thinking there is some ghost. This is the way.

Madhudviṣa: The demons are trying to go to the heavenly planets by building their skyscrapers higher and higher.

Prabhupāda: Rāvaṇa's, Rāvaṇa's staircase for going to the heaven. He promised that "Oh, what is the use of austerity? I shall make a staircase directly. You can go." As their... It is the same, Rāvaṇa's staircase and the modern attempt to go to the moon planet, the same thing. They will never be able to go, but imagining that "We shall do it." The same process, Rāvaṇa's process. For how many years they are going? Since 1950?

Devotee: To the moon expedition?

Prabhupāda: Yes, moon expedition.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Father also. Both the father and mother. Because they are father and mother of a Vaiṣṇava devotee, so they will be taken special care. You'll find from the Prahlāda Mahārāja's description. Even a father like Hiraṇyakaśipu, he got salvation because Prahlāda was son.

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it seems strange that so many parents who are engaged in meat-eating and illicit sex and intoxication and gambling, could have a son who would become a Vaiṣṇava.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they will get the advantage of the son. Somehow or other, they have produced a son, Vaiṣṇava, so the son's activities will react upon the life of the parents. Because naturally the sons think of the father and mother, that is beneficial for them. However one may be renounced, he cannot get rid of family affection. That is natural. So the Vaiṣṇava son sometimes thinks of the father and mother. So they are getting the benefit.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Devotee (2): They know how to destroy everything, but they can't create anything nice.

Prabhupāda: No question of creating. They have destroyed themselves. Save yourself from destruction. Then you talk of destruction. You destroy. That's all right. But you will be destroyed by some other greater power. What you are going to do that? What you have done for that purpose? You destroy. That is going on, nature's way. I am killing somebody, somebody is killing me. That is nature's way. So what is your special credit? There is no credit. There is no credit. You save yourself not to be destroyed by others. "I can destroy others but nobody can destroy me"—that Hiraṇyakaśipu tried. But that is not possible. Ultimately he was destroyed. That's all.

Devotee (2): They don't seem to care too much about the future.

Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. Therefore we call them rascals. Therefore we have given this position, rascal, that's all. Talk too much, do nothing—that is rascal. (bugles sound in background) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa... Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This old fort? This is actually called "Old Fort" isn't it? This part is built around a commemoration to a very old military fort. British.

Prabhupāda: Where is that fort?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's supposed to be some kind of museum over here. I don't think the fort is still standing.

Prabhupāda: And where are the fort makers? (laughter) Where they have gone?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They were shot out of the cannon.

Morning Walk -- October 17, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: By his action. (break) ...kasipu tried to make Prahlāda atheist. He failed. And Prahlāda tried to make his father theist. He failed. Don't you see?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So unless one agrees you cannot turn him. It is not possible. Five-years'-old boy, staunch devotee, and the powerful Hiraṇyakaśipu, father, who is threatening with his life and so many ways he tried that "You become atheist, godless. Otherwise I shall kill you." He did not agree. And similarly, the son also solicited the father that "You have got so much power by the grace of God. Why you are becoming atheist?" Both of them could not turn to their side. Prahlāda remained Prahlāda, and Hiraṇyakaśipu remained Hiraṇyakaśipu. (break) ...can expect that without agreeing, conceding, one can be reformed. No, that is not possible. Impossible.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Not simply by rubber stamp.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible. He must agree, "Yes." Therefore guru is required. Guru means, accept guru means, "Whatever you say, I will accept." That is guru. Otherwise friendly talk. Friendly talk will not do. To accept guru means "Now I accept you, guru, my instructor, without any argument," and that is acceptance. "Whatever you say, I shall do." That is agreement. Then he can be reformed. Śiṣyas te 'ha śādhi mā prapannam: "I surrender unto you. I become your disciple. Now you train me." Then he can be reformed. Otherwise not possible.

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That is another sign of their rascaldom, that they don't accept that all of their endeavors to maintain the body will be defeated.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are seeing, experiencing. History never says that any man has become immortal, even Hiranyakasipu, and what to speak of these small demons. A great demon like Hiranyakasipu, he could not, and what to speak of these tiny demons? One kick is sufficient to kill them.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They never say that.

Prabhupāda: The European lady will never take a burden on head like this, but Indians, they do. Even respectable family woman, they also carry on the head. You will find many Gujarati. Simple living is natural.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How is it that the Europeans especially, they have become the vanguard of rascal culture?

Prabhupāda: Because they are rākṣasas. They are eating meat and drinking wine and illicit sex. Rākṣasa civilization. Hiraṇyakaśipu means... Hiraṇya means gold, and kaśipu means soft bed. To learn, this is rākṣasa civilization. They are searching after soft bed and gold mine, hiraṇya.

Devotee (2): We have some guests.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Aiye. How do you know we have come here?

Indian (3): Well, Kṛṣṇa's grace showed me you were here.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: So the news was there that Jesus Christ, after crucification, he was alive, and he went to... (aside:) Not so near. And he went to Kashmir. So by the yogic process, in samādhi one can remain alive although superficially he is seen that he is killed. That is possible. Hiraṇyakaśipu did that. He was undergoing tapasya for one hundred years of the demigods. Their duration of time is: our six months, their one day. So such a long time he was undergoing austerity, penance, and thus he became perfect. So his body was practically finished by the earthworm, what is called, moths and ants.

Brahmānanda: Because he was standing still?

Prabhupāda: Yes. For so many years everything was eaten. Only on the bones were there.

Brahmānanda: So he appeared to be dead, but he wasn't.

Prabhupāda: No, he was not dead. He was living on bones. Bones were there. Mean, life is not dependent on this material body. One can practice this by yoga. Without this body he can live. Just like ghost. That is possible.

Brahmānanda: Yes, the yogis are able to stop their breathing...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He can press your throat and kill you immediately. (laughter) He can do this. Do you admit or not?

Harikeśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then? That is the practical thing for the demons. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). When Hiraṇyakaśipu met with Nṛsiṁha-deva, "Yes, sir, yes. You are here."

Harikeśa: But that's all mythology. That kind of thing never really happens.

Prabhupāda: When it happens, you will see. Wait for few years. Do you think death will not happen to you? You are so fool to think like that?

Harikeśa: It's still going to happen to me even if I read these books.

Prabhupāda: The books are there, what is happening actually, that's all. Books... Therefore it is practical because what is written in the śāstra, that is happening. Therefore it is practical. (break) Throughout this age, the symptoms of Kali-yuga, they are happening practically.

Yaśomatīnandana: (break) ...all the Māyāvādīs, transcendentalists, they also don't believe in śāstras.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...infection and disinfection also, but you don't take to disinfection. That is our... Here is disinfection, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Who is going to take it? They will prefer to be infected. (break) ...respectable person will send their children to gurukula. They don't want. I tried in the beginning. It was a failure. They don't want. Just like Prahlāda and Hiraṇyakaśipu. What is the trouble? The Prahlāda was devotee, and his father did not like him, that "Why you should be devotee? You become politician, diplomat." That is the difficulty, that nowadays everyone is Hiraṇyakaśipu, and he wants that his son should be diplomat, politician, black market and... What is the use of this Prahlāda? That is going on, especially in India. (break) Hiraṇyakaśipu, he'll never like to see his son Prahlāda. And our system is to make Prahlāda. So nobody will like it.

Brahmānanda: They had a gurukula here at Hare Kṛṣṇa Land. Isn't it? And many of the children of the tenants were coming, and they were wearing tilaka. And then they would go home and tell their parents not to eat meat and so on, and the parents became very angry and took their children back. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...Hiraṇyakaśipu education, then it is filled up immediately. And if you introduce Prahlāda education-vacant. (break) Hm? (laughs) (break) ...meet me at night, all you. (break) Who are living?

Girirāja: Our men? One room is for the school, and Yaśomat...

Indian man (4): School, gurukula school.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So one may check, two may check, what about millions? Supposing they can check in that way, it may be possible for one or two, or a dozen, but what about millions and millions? Nature's way.

Harikeśa: That's if they, they're doing this in...

Prabhupāda: In future. That will solve in future.

Harikeśa: They were giving prizes to people who are doing this.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: Like TV sets.

Prabhupāda: Mutual 'present' society. (everyone laughing) (front bell of temple ringing as Prabhupāda enters grounds) Hiraṇyakaśipu civilization, and we are presenting Prahlāda civilization. So this is a struggle, but ultimately Prahlāda will come out triumphant. Hare Kṛṣṇa (to bystander) and Hiraṇyakaṣipu will be killed. Jaya! (Walks into temple) (end).

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Franco. There was that Franco.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone. He was given horse urine to drink, Napoleon. Such a great hero, but he had to drink horse urine. This Englishman after Battle of, what is that? Waterloo. When he was arrested, when he was asking water, he was given horse urine. Because everyone was very, very angry. Napoleon became just like Hiranyakasipu. They were threatening their children: "Oh, he, Bona, is coming. Sleep. Sleep. Sleep." He became so much.... He was known as Bona. You do not know all these things?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Whole Europe became threatened, Napoleon. And there must be some reaction. And when he was under custody he was treated like an.... So where is independence? He had to drink horse urine as reaction of his atrocities. Hitler committed suicide and finished himself. Mussolini was forced to be killed. Gandhi was killed. And they are fighting for independence. You know this Sydney? Sydney? You know why the city is known as Sydney?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1976, Madras:

Yaśodānandana: It has been seen everywhere we travel that there is plenty of rice everywhere, there is plenty of food growing everywhere, but yet the government is advertising that there is scarcity of food in everything. But there is plenty growing everywhere.

Prabhupāda: And reduce population, kill it. Hiraṇyakaśipu was doing that.

Acyutānanda: Birth control?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Prajāpati. He stopped Prajāpatis to beget children.

Indian man (2): They said they are giving employment to many people.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Indian man (2): The government says they are giving employment by opening these mica mines and so many things. The government says they are giving employment and work to many people.

Prabhupāda: Hm. So you like to be employed?

Acyutānanda: In one mine recently there was a big cave-in, and how many people...? Three hundred men were killed.

Prabhupāda: Mica mine?

Acyutānanda: Coal. In...

Prabhupāda: In Bihar.

Room Conversation -- January 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: That is.... A child can also do that. That is not expert. A child can advance in foolishness without any guidance. If the child touches fire and if somebody says, "This is advancement of knowledge," then imagine what is the position. Similarly, all these rascals, they are endeavoring. Just like Hiranyakasipu. He endeavored all through how to become immortal, which is impossible. But he advanced in that foolishness. Hiranyakasipu was such a big demon, his only idea was that "The devatās, they attack us sometimes. But now I shall attack them and plunder them. But because I am now practically immortal, what they will do? They cannot kill me. So I will go on with my demonic activities, and then they cannot do anything." This is his foolishness. He did not know that he's the greatest foolishness that he was trying to become immortal. When it was said by Brahmā that "No, no, it is not possible," still, he expected that "I shall become immortal." Brahmā flatly said, "No, no, this is not possible. I am not immortal. How can I give you immortality?" But he would not hear even Brahmā. He thought that, "In an indirect way I shall befool this man, Brahmā." "All right, sir, then give me this benediction." "What is that?" "I'll not die in the land." "All right." "Not in the water." "Yes." "Not in the air." "No, yes." So he thought that "The three things finished. Then where shall I die? There are three things only, land, water, sky. So he has given me benediction I shall not die anywhere of these three. So I have cheated now." And then "I shall not die in daytime." "Yes." "I shall not die in nighttime." But māyā dictated that there is another space or another place between day and night. (laughs) That he forgot. That is called sandhyā. That is accepted. But he forgot that. And Kṛṣṇa is more intelligent. He.... Hiraṇyakaśipu was not killed in daytime or nighttime. He was killed in the sandhyā. And so far land, sky, and water is concerned, that also was played with tricks, that He killed him on the lap. You cannot say it is land; you cannot say it is sky, you cannot say it is water. So Kṛṣṇa is so kind that His devotee, Brahma, has given him this benediction.... Without touching all those points. Hiranyakasipu could not accuse Brahma that "Sir, you have cheated me." "No. Whatever you wanted, I have given you. You have cheated yourself. You do not know that your knowledge is imperfect. You cannot make it perfect. So that is your folly. But so far I am concerned, whatever you wanted, I said, 'Yes. Yes. Yes.' But I said also that 'In spite of all this, you'll never live.' That is not possible. But, you fool, you did not take care of it. So in spite of cunningness, you remained a fool. You thought that you are very intelligent, cunning. 'I am now fully equipped; nobody can kill me.' But I said that it is not possible. I never cheated you. You cannot say that I have cheated you."

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Threat.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They know we're threatening.

Prabhupāda: When they feel. Yes. Just like our Godbrothers. Now they're feeling; therefore there is harassment. "Harass them." Planning how to harass. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu. When he saw that Prahlāda could not be killed in so many ways, he became very much disturbed: "What is this?" Then one day he asked, "Prahlāda, wherefrom you have got this power?" "And wherefrom you have got this power? I am getting from the same source."

Hari-śauri: He didn't like that.

Prabhupāda: Again he became angry. "Somebody else than me? I am God."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "I am world preacher."

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...is so kind that He is sitting in everyone's heart to give him good advice. There is no need of asking. He is only finding out the good opportunity to speak to him. (Bengali) Two birds sitting? So He is always eager to give you advice. He comes down to give you advice. So we are not taking the advice. That is the position.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1976, Mayapur:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that the same as in the Bhagavad-gītā where Kṛṣṇa says, "For one who is honored, dishonor is worse than death"?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is another thing. Caitanya Mahāprabhu personally taught this. To be victimized by māyā is possi.... There is possibility.... Just like Jaya and Vijaya. They were gatekeepers in the Vaikuṇṭha. They also fell down, Hiraṇyakaśipu. So this falldown, there is possibility in any moment because we are very small. We can be captivated by māyā at any moment. Therefore we shall be very, very careful. And if you fall down, then punishment is you make suicide. That's all. Then next life we shall see.

Satsvarūpa: But Śrīla Prabhupāda, in The Nectar of Devotion it says devotional service is so pure that there's no prāyaścitta necessary. Just again engage in your service.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is not prāyaścitta. This is exemplary punishment. He was not liable to be punished, but they played that "This is the.... This should be done."

Guru-kṛpā: He did not kill himself immediately. He waited for a year.

Prabhupāda: He was waiting if Caitanya Mahāprabhu would accept him again. But when he saw that Caitanya Mahāprabhu is not so lenient, he committed suicide. Vajrād api kaṭora. Harder than the thunderbolt and softer than the rose. This is the position.

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He can be given.

Akṣayānanda: And he can offer in the fire later on. Very nice. He's a very good boy.

Yaśodānandana: Prabhupāda, there has been discussion amongst many of the members of the press and the Sanskrit editors regarding the actual place of Nṛsiṁha's pastimes. So I told them that on the occasion of our travel to South India we visited this place Ahobilam, and the paṇḍitas, they have scriptural reference from the Brahmāṇḍa Purāṇa and the Nṛsiṁha Purāṇa that the place is actually mentioned there, and it has been recognized by Rāmānujācārya and many of the great Ālwār saints. And yourself have already told me twice personally that this was the actual place where it happened. And on top of the mountain there, there is the pillar, iron pillar, which is the symbol of the spot where Lord Nṛsiṁha killed Hiraṇyakaśipu. So for the benefit of all of these devotees, they were just requesting your actual confirmation.

Prabhupāda: Confirmation or no confirmation, Nṛsiṁha-deva is our worshipable Deity, that's all. Why you are bothering where He killed Hiraṇyakaśipu? You worship Him, that's all.

Yaśodānandana: They just wanted...

Jayādvaita: The question came up because they have some pictures, photographs from these places, and we wanted to know if they were suitable for publishing or not.

Prabhupāda: So why you are bothering with that? Let it be accepted or not accepted. Worship Him.

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: Perhaps we cut across this way? This is a dead end here.

Prabhupāda: No, we shall come back.

Jayādvaita: You gave that other example in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that Nṛsiṁha-deva let Hiraṇyakaśipu slip from His hands for a little while just to play with him.

Nalinī-kānta: The Vedic civilization is centered around villages, not cities?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Nalinī-kānta: If we want to make the world Kṛṣṇa conscious...

Prabhupāda: Vedic civilization is in the forest. Go to the forest.

Hari-śauri: Renounce.

Prabhupāda: Neither in the city nor in the village. Go to the forest.

Lokanātha: But there were cities like Dvārakā.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but the ideal is vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5). Go to the forest and depend on Kṛṣṇa and live there. And that is perfection. Vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5). Go to the forest and remain, depending on Kṛṣṇa. That's all.

Morning Walk -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (sings) Śrī kṛṣṇa caitanya prabhu, dayā koro more...

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, sometime today the new copies of the second volume of Seventh Canto are coming from the printer today. That's the volume with the section about Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva killing Hiraṇyakaśipu and Prahlāda's prayers.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda was lecturing on that in Māyāpur.

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Hṛdayānanda: In Māyāpur you were lecturing on the prayers.

Rāmeśvara: So that volume is coming today.

Prabhupāda: (break)....culture and civilization is being introduced by Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement for the benefit of the whole human society. The modern civilization is not civilization. Mūḍhā nābhijānāti; mām eva param avyayam. Ninety-nine percent or ninety-nine point nine percent people do not believe in the transmigration of the soul. Is it not?

Rāmeśvara: In India people believe.

Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: "...afraid of me, what kind of child? (laughs) Where you got so much strength?" And the answer here,

na kevalaṁ me bhavataś ca rājan

sa vai balaṁ balināṁ cāpareṣām

pare 'vare 'mī sthira-jaṅgamā ye

brahmādayo yena vaśaṁ praṇītāḥ

"Prahlāda Mahārāja said, 'My dear King, the source of my strength, of which you are asking, is also the source of yours, by which you are challenging. Indeed, the original source of all kinds of strength is one. He is not only your strength or mine, but the only strength for everyone. Without Him, no one can get any strength, whether moving or not moving, superior or inferior. Everyone, including Lord Brahmā, is controlled by the strength of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.' " So,

so 'haṁ vikatthamānasya

śiraḥ kāyād dharāmi te

gopāyeta haris tvādya

yas te śaraṇam īpsitam

"All right, let me see how your strength is coming. Now I shall kill you, come on. Let me see (laughs) how your God is coming to save you." This is atheism, challenging. And when He appeared, the Hiraṇyakaśipu became a fly (laughs) in front of.... Eh? Where is such language? Even there are many Sanskrit scholars now, they cannot produce such language. That is not possible. And five thousand years before, Vyāsadeva presented this unique language.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Or translation. No, Sanskrit also. The mantra, hearing, that is very valuable. These are all Vedic mantras. If you simply hear, it helps you spiritually.

Hṛdayānanda:

manye dhanābhijana-rūpa-tapaḥ-śrutaujas-

tejaḥ-prabhāva-bala-pauruṣa-buddhi-yogāḥ

nārādhanāya hi bhavanti parasya puṁso

bhaktyā tutoṣa bhagavān gaja-yūtha-pāya

"Prahlāda Mahārāja continued: One may possess wealth, an aristocratic family, beauty, austerity, education, sensory expertise, luster, influence, physical strength, diligence, intelligence and mystic yogic power, but I think that even by all these qualifications one cannot satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. However, one can satisfy the Lord simply by devotional service. Gajendra did this, and thus the Lord was satisfied with him."

viprād dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa-yutād aravinda-nābha-

pādāravinda-vimukhāt śvapacaṁ variṣṭham

manye tad-arpita-mano-vacanehitārtha-

prāṇaṁ punāti sa kulaṁ na tu bhūrimānaḥ

"If a brāhmaṇa has all twelve of the brahminical qualifications (as they are stated in the book called Sanat-sujāta) but is not a devotee and is averse to the lotus feet of the Lord, he is certainly lower than a devotee who is a dog-eater but who has dedicated everything—mind, words, activities, wealth and life—to the Supreme Lord. Such a devotee is better than such a brāhmaṇa because the devotee can purify his whole family, whereas the so-called brāhmaṇa in a position of false prestige cannot purify even himself."

naivātmanaḥ prabhur ayaṁ nija-lābha-pūrṇo

mānaṁ janād aviduṣaḥ karuṇo vṛṇīte

yad yaj jano bhagavate vidadhīta mānaṁ

tac cātmane prati-mukhasya yathā mukha-śrīḥ

"The Supreme Lord, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is always fully satisfied in Himself. Therefore when something is offered to Him, the offering, by the Lord's mercy, is for the benefit of the devotee, for the Lord does not need service from anyone. To give an example, if one's face is decorated, the reflection of one's face in a mirror is also seen to be decorated."

tasmād ahaṁ vigata-viklava īśvarasya

sarvātmanā mahi gṛṇāmi yathā manīṣam

nīco 'jayā guṇa-visargam anupraviṣṭaḥ

pūyeta yena hi pumān anuvarṇitena

"Therefore, although I was born in a demoniac family, I may without a doubt offer prayers to the Lord with full endeavor, as far as my intelligence allows. Anyone who has been forced by ignorance to enter the material world may be purified of material life if he offers prayers to the Lord and hears the Lord's glories."

sarve hy amī vidhi-karās tava sattva-dhāmno

brahmādayo vayam iveśa na codvijantaḥ

kṣemāya bhūtaya utātma-sukhāya cāsya

vikrīḍitaṁ bhagavato rucirāvatāraiḥ

"O my Lord, all the demigods, headed by Lord Brahmā, are sincere servants of Your Lordship, who are situated in a transcendental position. Therefore they are not like us (Prahlāda and his father, the demon Hiraṇyakaśipu). Your appearance in this fearsome form is Your pastime for Your own pleasure. Such an incarnation is always meant for the protection and improvement of the universe."

tad yaccha manyum asuraś ca hatas tvayādya

modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā

lokāś ca nirvṛtim itāḥ pratiyanti sarve

rūpaṁ nṛsiṁha vibhayāya janāḥ smaranti

(SB 7.9.14)

"My Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva, please, therefore, cease Your anger now that my father, the great demon Hiraṇyakaśipu, has been killed. Since even saintly persons take pleasure in the killing of a scorpion or a snake, all the worlds have achieved great satisfaction because of the death of this demon. Now they are confident of their happiness, and they will always remember Your auspicious incarnation in order to be free from fear."

Prabhupāda: You are reading the transcription or original verse?

Hṛdayānanda: Transcription.

Prabhupāda: So this transcription is quite helpful in pronunciation, everything. Exact it is coming. The diacritic marks follow, you can pronounce exactly.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kulaśekhara: He is a good man, but he's not intelligent.

Prabhupāda: No, he'll profit by your activities. Kṛṣṇa will give concession to your family. Because you are Vaiṣṇava, everyone will get the profit.

Kulaśekhara: In London you said thirteen generations.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is special concession. Hiraṇyakaśipu was given, such a demon. But your father is not a demon. He may be less intelligent, that is another thing. So Kṛṣṇa is prepared to give facility to a demon father of a devotee.

Kulaśekhara: Anyone who gets to render you personal service, Prabhupāda, they are most blessed, they are most fortunate.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, you have got this jewel, utilize it properly, make your life perfect.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: You wanted to do, Kṛṣṇa gives you intelligence. You want to manufacture a very complicated machine, Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence, "All right, do like this, manufacture." He'll not hear Kṛṣṇa, sarva dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). That is Kṛṣṇa's intelligence, that "You rascal, give up this all this." But he'll not do it. Want to do it, but Kṛṣṇa is so kind, "All right, do it, see the effect." Without Kṛṣṇa's help we cannot do anything.

Devotee (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda, you have called the politicians representative of Hiraṇyakaśipu, they are trying to become immortal. Just like devotees, but without...

Prabhupāda: Yes, this... There are two kinds of men already described, daiva asura eva ca. These two kinds of activities will go on. This is material world. You cannot find out cent percent perfect man. That is not possible. There are a class of men, imperfect, will be there. But it is being described who is imperfect and who is perfect. That you have to select. You cannot clear this material world of imperfect persons. That is not possible. There will be remain, but you must know who is perfect and who is imperfect. And make your choice, whether you want to remain imperfect or want to make progress to become perfect. That is up to you.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But it cannot be done. This is another foolishness. Because Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). But the difficulty is the caste system is coming on account of false notion that a brāhmaṇa is the son of a brāhmaṇa. That is caste system. But Kṛṣṇa does not say. He says, "By quality and work." He never says, "By birth." So this so-called castism in India that is a false notion of cātur-varṇyaṁ. Real cātur-varṇyaṁ means guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. One must be qualified. And how one is qualified? That is also described. Satya śamo damo titikṣva ārjava jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam. So there must be education. It is not that to abolish the caste system which is contaminated by false conception, or birth right conception. This wrong caste system should be abolished and training centers should be opened how to train a person to become brāhmaṇa or to become kṣatriya. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. So you cannot avoid it, but because you have misconceived the caste system, that should be abolished, and the system recommended by Kṛṣṇa, that should be taken. Otherwise you cannot avoid it. Caste system will remain. Just like truthfulness. So all over the world you'll find somebody who is truthful. Why do you take it: "His father was truthful, therefore he is truthful."? This is nonsense. This is nonsense. Kṛṣṇa never said that. The father may be Hiranyakasipu, but his son is Prahlāda. Or a son... Not that the, one has to become exactly like the father. It may be. There is every possibility, but it is not a fact that the son becomes like the father. It is not fact. So similarly, the first class man is truthful. Now, wherever you find a truthful man, you classify him as brāhmaṇa. That is wanted. Why do you take that "Here is a son of truthful man; therefore he is brāhmaṇa"? That is misconception. You have to pick up the truthful men all over the world and classify them as brāhmaṇa. That we are doing. "If you follow these principles, no illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling, no meat-eating, you are brāhmaṇa. Come on." His father may be meat-eater or gambler or drunkard, but he is agreeing, "All right, come on, this come. You are welcome." Then it will be all right.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Next question. Question number 18. "As the world is coming to be divided into just two classes, atheist and theist, is it not advisable for all religions to come together, and what positive steps can be taken in this direction?"

Prabhupāda: That is already taken, already explained. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The atheist class and theist class, they will exist always. This is material world. Even at home the father is atheist, Hiraṇyakaśipu, and the son is theist. So even at home the father and the son different. So that atheist class and theist class men will always exist in family, in community, in nation, in the... as you go on. But the theist class should take to the proposition of the Bhagavad-gītā and take shelter at his lotus feet, giving up so-called religious principles. That is oneness. Religion without conception of God, conception of God is humbug, bogus. Religion means to accept the order of God. So if you have no conception of God, if you do not know who is God, so there is no question of accepting His order. It is stated in the Vedic literature dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Find out this verse in the Sixth Canto. (break) ...Yamarāja's instruction.

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:

tad yaccha manyum asuraś ca hatas tvayādya

modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā

lokāś ca nirvṛtim itāḥ pratiyanti sarve

rūpaṁ nṛsiṁha vibhayāya janāḥ smaranti

(SB 7.9.14)

"My Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva, please, therefore, cease Your anger now that my father, the great demon Hiraṇyakaśipu, has been killed. Since even saintly persons take pleasure in the killing of a scorpion or snake, all the worlds have achieved great satisfaction because of the death of this demon. Now they are confident of their happiness, and they will always remember Your auspicious incarnation in order to be free from fear."

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Purport. "The most important point in this verse is that although saintly persons never desire the killing of any living entity, they take pleasure in the killing of envious living entities like snakes and scorpions. Hiraṇyakaśipu was killed because he was worse than a snake or a scorpion, and therefore everyone was happy."

Prabhupāda: Snake or scorpion... Of course, sometimes snakes, they eat their own children. They do it. But he has... He has tried to kill his own child. Modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā. Very good example. Saintly persons, they also want killing living entities like snake.

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Hiraṇyakaśipu was killed because he was worse than a snake or a scorpion, and therefore everyone was happy. Now there was no need for the Lord to be angry. The devotees can always remember the form of Nṛsiṁha-deva when they are in danger, and therefore the appearance of Nṛsiṁha-deva was not at all inauspicious. The Lord's appearance is always worshipable and auspicious for all sane persons and devotees."

Prabhupāda: What is next verse?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:

nāhaṁ bibhemy ajita te 'tibhayānakāsya

jihvārka-netra-bhrukuṭī-rabhasogra-daṁṣṭrāt

āntra-srajaḥ-kṣataja-keśara-śaṅku-karṇān

nirhrāda-bhīta-digibhād ari-bhin-nakhāgrāt

"My Lord, who are never conquered by anyone, I am certainly not afraid of Your ferocious mouth and tongue, Your eyes bright like the sun, or Your frowning eyebrows. I do not fear Your sharp, pinching teeth, Your garland of intestines, Your mane soaked with blood, or Your high, wedgelike ears. Nor do I fear Your tumultuous roaring, which makes elephants flee to distant places, or Your nails, which are meant to kill Your enemies."

Prabhupāda: Nail is sufficient to kill an enemy like Hiraṇyakaśipu. No other weapon required. Simply tava kara-kamala-vare nakham adbhuta-śṛṅgam. Wonderful nails. Tava kara-kamala-vare nakham adbhuta-śṛṅgam, dalita-hiraṇyakaśipu-tanu-bhṛṅgam. Just like we sometimes press some insects; immediately dies. So this Hiraṇyakaśipu, simply by nails pressed and finished.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Like to go inside now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Devotees: Jaya. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda!

Prabhupāda: Give it to Kīrtanānanda. Tava kara-kamala-vare nakham adbhuta-śṛṅgam. (kīrtana) (end)

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: You read the life of Jaya, Vijaya, Hiraṇyakaśipu, Hiraṇyākṣa? They were Kṛṣṇa's doorkeepers. How they fell down? Did you read it? Did you read the life of Hiraṇyakaśipu or Hiraṇyākṣa?

Devotee (4): Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So how they did fall? They are from Vaikuṇṭha. They are Kṛṣṇa's personal associates, keeping the doorkeepers. How did they fell down? Anyway, there is chance of falling down at any moment.

Devotee (4): Well, in his family they wanted to enjoy the material world.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, the falldown is there. So because we are living entities, we are not as powerful as Kṛṣṇa, therefore we may fall down from Vaikuṇṭha at any moment. Icchā-dveṣa samutthena sarge yānti parantapa. Find out this verse.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he was tempted. Arjuna was tempted when he went to Indraloka. But he closed his eyes.

Prabhupāda: No, descriptions are there of Indraloka. The pavements with pearls.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow.

Prabhupāda: That is described, in the eighth chapter you'll find, er, Eighth Canto.

Rāmeśvara: In the Seventh Canto they described the palace of Indra, because Hiraṇyakaśipu had lived there. How he was living there, and the walls of his palace are studded with jewels. There's a nice description. What to speak of an ocean of milk, there's so many things they cannot imagine. (break) (walking)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The buses, you know the windows, some of the windows are broken a little bit—you saw them. Do you think they will look good in the parade? It's all right if the windows are not all...

Prabhupāda: Who is going to see? (break)

Hṛdayānanda: Great American paintings. What they consider to be great American paintings.

Hari-śauri: It's an art exhibition. (break)

Prabhupāda: In London they have got such a nice...

Rāmeśvara: You think one day, Prabhupāda, maybe these big buildings will be our temples?

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, our executive office.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So this is my request, that our money... There is nothing our money. Everything Kṛṣṇa's. But we are thinking. Because we are asuric. So asuras think like that. Just like Kaṁsa, Hiraṇyakaśipu. "Ha!" Rāvaṇa. "Ha! What is Rāma?" That is asura's. They think like that, and that is asuric. But otherwise īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore yajña is advised. The sooner you hand over Kṛṣṇa's property to Kṛṣṇa, it is good for you.

Minister: Swamiji we are karmī-yogīs. We start the day with surrendering to God and asking Him to show us the way. Beyond that, I don't know what our duty...

Prabhupāda: But a karma-yogī, why you should take Kṛṣṇa's money for karma?

Minister: For what? (indistinct) That is for...

Prabhupāda: That is the...

Minister: It is not used. As you have correctly said, that way only it is used.

Prabhupāda: No, the first thing is that if you decide that Kṛṣṇa's money should be utilized for Kṛṣṇa's mission, so Kṛṣṇa's mission is this, that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). You have to bring them to the sense of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And there is a process. You cannot manufacture that process. You have to take the process from Kṛṣṇa. That Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Four things. You have to teach people how he can think of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā. Then the mission is there. That is Kṛṣṇa also.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: They are atheists.

Krishna Modi: Yes. So that why we should mind for that? That is there. You may say they're rākṣasa, or whatever you... (laughs) They will, always they will...

Prabhupāda: Rākṣasas are always ready to kill God. That was the business of Rāvaṇa, that was the business of Kaṁsa, that was the business of Hiraṇyakaśipu.

Krishna Modi: That is the same thing in Rāvaṇa and this... What is this? That is the same thing. They were happy, they were drink and all these things, and take and all that time, and also harassing the devotees and... This is their duty. This is their duty. Therefore we should not mind for that. Let them do it.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, even Russia, which is Communist, has admired Prabhupāda's books. I have written reviews. I was in Russia two months ago. They're praising Prabhupāda's books very much. The leading professors there.

Krishna Modi: Also, this is a part of nowadays. Advertise and all these things, to know each and every thing. This is correct that why you are worrying about all these things. People should know it about you. Why not hear it? This is perfectly right, I agree with you. But in the interest of other people who have faith in their religion...

Prabhupāda: No, our mission is that this Kṛṣṇa cult should be preached all over the world. That is the... Bhagavad-gītā, (indistinct) Find out this verse, ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati (Bg 18.68). Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69).

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Read the purport.

Devotee: In this verse the words matir na kṛṣṇe refer to devotional service rendered to Kṛṣṇa. So-called politicians, erudite scholars and philosophers who read Bhagavad-gītā try to twist some meaning from it to suit their material purposes, but their misunderstandings of Kṛṣṇa will not yield them any profit. Because such politicians, philosophers and scholars are interested in using Bhagavad-gītā as a vehicle for adjusting things materially, for them constant thought of Kṛṣṇa, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is impossible (matir na kṛṣṇe). As stated in Bhagavad-gītā, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti: (BG 18.55) only through devotional service can one understand Kṛṣṇa as He is. The so-called politicians and scholars think of Kṛṣṇa as fictitious. The politician says that his Kṛṣṇa is different from the Kṛṣṇa depicted in Bhagavad-gītā. Even though he accepts Kṛṣṇa and Rāma as the Supreme, he thinks of Rāma and Kṛṣṇa as impersonal because he has no idea of service to Kṛṣṇa. Thus his only business is punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30)—chewing the chewed again and again. The aim of such politicians and academic scholars is to enjoy this material world with their bodily senses. Therefore it is clearly stated herein that those who are gṛha-vrata, whose only aim is to live comfortably with the body in the material world, cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. The two expressions gṛha-vrata and carvita-carvaṇānām indicate that a materialistic person tries to enjoy sense gratification in different bodily forms, life after life, but is still unsatisfied. In the name of personalism, this ism or that ism, such persons always remain attached to the materialistic way of life. As stated in Bhagavad-gītā:

bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ

tayāpahṛta-cetasām

vyavasāyātmikā buddhiḥ

samādhau na vidhīyate

(BG 2.44)

"In the minds of those who are too attached to sense enjoyment and material opulence, and who are bewildered by such things, the resolute determination for devotional service to the Supreme Lord does not take place." Those who are attached to material enjoyment cannot be fixed in devotional service to the Lord. They cannot understand Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, or His instruction, Bhagavad-gītā. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram: (SB 7.5.30) their path actually leads toward hellish life. As confirmed by Rsabhādeva, mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ: (SB 5.5.2) one must try to understand Kṛṣṇa by serving a devotee. The word mahat refers to a devotee.

mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha

daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ

bhajanty ananya-manaso

jñātvā bhūtādim avyayam

(BG 9.13)

"O son of Prtha, those who are not deluded, the great souls, are under the protection of the divine nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, original and inexhaustible." (BG 9.13) A mahātmā is one who is constantly engaged in devotional service, twenty-four hours a day. As explained in the following verses, unless one adheres to such a great personality, one cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Hiranyakasipu wanted to know where Prahlāda had gotten this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Who had taught him? Prahlāda sarcastically replied, "My dear father, persons like you never understand Kṛṣṇa. One can understand Kṛṣṇa only by serving a mahat, a great soul. Those who try to adjust material conditions are said to be chewing the chewed. No one has been able to adjust material conditions, but life after life, generation after generation, people try and repeatedly fail. Unless one is properly trained by a mahat—a mahātmā, or unalloyed devotee of the Lord—there is no possibility of one's understanding Kṛṣṇa and His devotional service."

Prabhupāda: I have seen in San Francisco, what is that (indistinct)?

Devotee: (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: I think San Francisco. What is that park?

Girirāja: Golden Gate.

Prabhupāda: Golden Gate park.

Devotee: San Diego?

Prabhupāda: No, no, San Francisco. There is a lake. So there the ducks, the male duck is attacking the female duck, what is called? When man forcibly attacks?

Girirāja: Rape.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is very worried. That is described by Prahlāda Mahārāja. When Hiraṇyakaśipu... After all, they are father and son. He inquired from the son, "My dear son, what best thing you have learned?"S So he said, "My dear..." He did not say "My dear father." He said "The best of the asuras." He addressed his father, "The best of the asuras." Tat sādhu manye asura varya dehinam. "My dear the best of the asuras..." He was the best of the asuras. "So I think that is best education..." Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām. Dehināṁ sadā samudvignam asad-grahāt. (break) We have got good rooms like this, not that one has to go to the forest. Even in the Vṛndāvana we have got very good room, but nobody's coming. This is the position. After fiftieth year, voluntarily one must commit civil suicide—no family. And that is Vedic. But he will think of family up to the point of being killed by this revolver. This is going on. Even Gandhi, what to speak of others. He presented himself as very tyāgī, but unless he was killed, he did not give up his ambition. "How my sons, how my countrymen will be happy?" And what happiness you can give? You are not God. Who is taking care of them? But this is māyā. He was thinking, "If I am not there, then whatever I have got, it will be finished."

Room Conversation -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Markaṭa-vairāgya, the renunciation of a monkey.

Bhāgavata: You have explained in Fifth Canto. Verses are there. Renunciation like a monkey.

Gurukṛpa: One man had his arm up for twelve years. He had his arm up with his hands closed, and his fingernails had grown, and his arm was flat for keeping up for twelve years like Hiraṇyakaśipu.

Hari-śauri: We saw one man in the Rāmānuja camp, too. He hadn't sat down for eighteen years. He carried a small swing with him, so wherever he went, he would go underneath a tree and hang the swing and lean on it. And he'd not sat down for eighteen years. (laughter) He had bandages all over his legs.

Bhāgavata: They have concocted this. It is not written in Vedas anywhere.

Prabhupāda: No, there are. Hiraṇyakaśipu did it.

Bhāgavata: That is a Vedic...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. But what did he gain?

Bhāgavata: He got this. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: What did he gain? Became a rākṣasa and was killed.

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This process gives one the strength to carry it forward more and more.

Prabhupāda: Āpani ācari' prabhu jīve śikhāilā. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He did so. The whole human civilization is on a risky platform.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't see how the present civilization can stand up against our devotees if we remain strong.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. It cannot. Prahlāda Mahārāja... Such a gigantic demon could not do anything. He was five years old boy, was sticking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's all, only that strength and he faced the dangerous position of a gigantic demon like Hiraṇyakaśipu. Even the demigods were afraid. So remain like Prahlāda Mahārāja, pure. Nobody can do anything. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So take rest and...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). (sound of thunder and rain) This time rainfall is very beneficial for crops. This is the way of living. You perform yajña, there will be rain. And as soon as the ground is moist, you can produce anything, whatever you want. Sarva-kāma-dughā mahī. From the field, you can get all your necessities of life. The first necessity is the food grain. So food grain you can eat, and the rejected grass portion, you give to the cows. So both the animal and the man get sufficient food. And the cows will give you nice milk, and from milk you can get butter, ghee, yogurt, so many nice sweetmeat. And there is ghee, and here is food grain, then you make kacuri, puri, samosā. Then sufficient foodstuff, nice, palatable, nutritious. First necessity is āhāra. You get sufficient āhāra. Then make little cottage for shelter. Just like there is rainfall. Now you require little... (thunder sounds) Āhāra, nidrā, bhaya, and sex. So marry. Then the whole problem is solved. And then, rest time you save and advance in Kṛṣṇa conscious... This is civilization. Why you create unnecessary necessities of life and become complicated and forget Kṛṣṇa? What is this civilization? Rascal civilization. Instead of giving protection to the cows, you are cutting the throat. Is that civilization? So this is a civilization of duṣkṛtina, means mischief monger. Therefore they must suffer, and suffering. And asuras are being created. And Kṛṣṇa's business is to kill the asuras. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). This is going on. This is material nature. Asuras are being created, and the whole plan is to kill them. So struggle for existence. The asuras, they want to live. Mahiṣāsura he's struggling with the weapons of Māyā, Durgā. He'll be failure, but still-ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham (BG 3.27)—by false egotism he's thinking, "I shall conquer over the material..." That is scientist, so-called scientist. Asuras are... They are planning that "We shall do without nature's control." That is mūḍha. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā dura... (BG 7.14). They cannot conquer it. That is not possible. But you are struggling. You do not want the control of nature. And nature is so strong... Now it is raining. Within one hour they can vanquish the whole world. Doesn't take time. If there is one cyclone and heavy rain, then you are put into danger. So long it is mild, it is all right. And as soon as becomes ferocious, then finish you. What you'll control the nature? When there is no rain, you cannot bring in rain; and when there is heavy rain, you cannot stop it. Then where is your control? You rascal, you think like that, "We shall control over nature." This is your rascaldom. You cannot control over. So everything has its use, and how to use it properly, that is all described in the Bhagavad-gītā. And if you take instruction of Kṛṣṇa and ultimately surrender to Him, that is success of life. Otherwise, struggle for existence, survival of the fittest... Nature is fittest. You'll die; nature will be... You are not fit to fight with the nature. That is asura temperament. And that will never be successful. So many asuras came. Formerly there was Hiraṇyakaśipu, Rāvaṇa, Kaṁsa and others. In the recent years there was Hitler, there was Churchill, there was Lenin, and Gandhi and so on, so on. For few days. Then gone: "Get out. Bas. Finished." Big, big scientists, big, big asuras, big, big leaders, what they could do? Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvaiḥ. Where is Bhagavad-gītā? Read from the... Tribhir guṇamayaiḥ. Seventh Chapter.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. So what kind of manager? But I am sure you can get students from outside, if not Indian students.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Indians will come when they see there's sufficient going on. Just like now they are doing...

Prabhupāda: No, they have lost interest. (indistinct) good character, that's all. They have lost all interest. They want this Hiraṇyakaśipu. They'll not want Prahlāda. He wanted son like him. That means fight between the father and the son. Son wants to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, and he wants to be political rākṣasa, and he becomes... Anyhow, we have got place. We have got. Try for. If you don't... Manage. And you are required to. Manage.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: (background conversation with Tamāla Kṛṣṇa)

Prabhupāda: That land we have got. Now you can make permanent.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a saying in English, "Don't put the cart before the horse."

Prabhupāda: Very first-class place.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that building is built better than the Māyāpur building was built.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct-bad tape) Others, that we are purchasing, one. Otherwise, the idea was (indistinct-bad tape).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is four buildings, joined together.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is the standard, vidvān and bhaktimān.

Indian man (1): (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That I know because people are now debauch and uneducated. So they want their son to be debauch and uneducated, Hiraṇyakaśipu. Hiraṇyakaśipu did not want a child like Prahlāda. It was there formerly the misunderstanding took place. Prahlāda wanted to satisfy Nārāyaṇa, and he wanted to become a devotee of Nārāyaṇa. The father is asura. He wanted: "What is this nonsense, to become devotee? I wanted politics, diplomacy, cheating. You are studying." Presently there is a class of men, Hiraṇyakaśipu. They do not like to see their sons become Prahlāda. And our ideal is to create Prahlāda. It doesn't matter there are many Prahlādas. At least there must be... So we have got... How many rooms we have got?

Devotee (2): (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: At least one dozen rooms. (background talking) Twenty-six. So if fifteen rooms are taken by the Americans... How many students will be accommodated in one room?

Devotees (2): Four to five.

Prabhupāda: So fifteen to five, 250. At least 150 students you can accommodate them, nice. So arrange for that. And throughout India and the whole world you cannot bring 250? So is it very difficult to bring 250 students? So what kind of managers you are? So these things should be considered. (bad tape) (break) So if you have got any other questions, you can ask me. But first business is to bring students. We are open to the whole world, India also. Our society has got so many children. They are doing there, and some of them may come here. In this way it must be filled up with students. That is first business. Then manager arrange. "This manager will be in this room; that manager..." That is secondary. (laughs) First of all you must have students to manager over.

Room Conversation -- October 12, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is life. This material world and the bones... The bones are not our... This is life. We are not concerned with bones and stones. Our real concern is the living force. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). The living force which is sustaining the bones... Bone is not important. It may remain; it may go. It doesn't matter. Real life, what is sustaining the bone, is steady. We have got history that there was a ṛṣi, he had only bones. So there is a science by which you can sustain life—only bones. Hiraṇyakaśipu did it, practically.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You are also doing it, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So take care of the bones as long as possible. Real life is here. Always remember that. And material world means there are simply all protecting bones and flesh together. They have no idea what they are.(?) Bones and flesh... Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Apareyam. It is useless. Not useless-inferior. Real? That jīva-bhūta, which is sustaining. Thank you very much. Print books, and as I have given in my will, half, again print, and half spent for propaganda as you like. In this way go on. Jayapatākā, you are doing that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā, are you doing that? Half spending and half for printing?

Jayapatākā: In Bengal, because the people are so poor, so there we are giving the book and just taking five or ten percent profit margin...

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Jayapatākā: ...for the small books, for propaganda purpose, so that we can reach many people.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Whatever propaganda require you spend, but print books and distribute. Whatever English book we have got, if we translate into Bengali, we have got enough stock.