Heavenly planets (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"heavenly planet" |"heavenly planets"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So many things are not visible to our eyes.

Reporter: And when you speak of the analogies of one, say, a foreigner coming to another country and wanting to do whatever he wants to do there and being rejected or opposed by the inhabitants of that country, do you say only by analogy that there might be opposition to earth people?

Prabhupāda: No. There are informations. Somebody trying to enter in the heavenly planet was opposed because he was not qualified.

Reporter: So then because of this example are you saying that if earth people were able to land on the moon that they would be...?

Prabhupāda: First of all, my first conviction is they will never be able. But even they are able, I do not know how they will be easily received.

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Reporter: The example of the king that wanted to enter the heavenly kingdom and was opposed, is this in this book also?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Reporter: And he was opposed by the demigods?

Prabhupāda: Demigods, or the residents in the heavenly planet.

Hayagrīva: Like I mentioned, there are three planets, three... There are the lower planetary systems, middle planetary systems, and higher planetary systems. And this earth is considered to be in the middle planetary system of the universe. It's called a middle planet.

Reporter: Would that relate to anything that we're talking about?

Prabhupāda: In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated that there are three planetary system, upper, lower and middle. So ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti, those who are in the modes of goodness, they are allowed to live in the upper planetary system. And those who are in the modes of passion, they are allowed to live in this middle planetary system, and those who are in the modes of ignorance, they are allowed to live in the lower planetary system.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: On the light.

Haṁsadūta: In our world here, there are material scientists and they understand things in a particular way. They understand, for instance...

Prabhupāda: Their way and our way is completely different.

Haṁsadūta: I know. But I mean, there must be... Suppose, on the heavenly planets, there must also be a class of men who understand things...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Anywhere within this material world, they are all conditioned souls. Their understanding is incomplete. Even Brahmā. Even Brahmā. Brahmā has admitted in his prayers that people..."Other rascal may say that he has understood You, but for my part, I say I never understood You." He has said like that. Have you read this portion? So even Brahmā cannot understand. What we? He says, "The other rascals may say." Where is that Brahma-stotra? In the first part, find out.

Haṁsadūta: No. It's in the Process of Creation isn't it?

Prabhupāda: No, no. In Kṛṣṇa Book. Where is that...? This is second part. I say always that...

Śyāmasundara: Second part?

Prabhupāda: That is Volume Two. No, no. It is not in Volume Two.

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, simply for decoration of the body, that is not human civilization. (indistinct) civilized activity is going on on the basis of keeping this body in comfort. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). (indistinct) everywhere attempt is being made how to keep this body comfortable. The karmīs, they are trying to elevate themselves to the heavenly planet. Enjoying here nicely, but they are performing great sacrifices, ritualistic ceremonies, and pious activities to elevate themselves to higher planetary system according to Vedas. Everywhere we go, material... These people are trying to go to the moon planet. But wherever you go, you cannot be any way comfortable. Therefore, Bhagavad-gītā says that janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). Intelligent person will see that "However comfortable I may be, I have to meet death." And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34), "I am death." Death means to take away. Whatever you create, it will be taken away.

Dr. Singh: But is it not possible when the Upaniṣads, when they talk of this (indistinct). So if you... What does that mean?

Prabhupāda: That means you become purified of this material body and you regain your spiritual body. Yogam.

Room Conversation -- December 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda:

(yasyātmā buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke)

sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijyadhīḥ

yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ

(SB 10.84.13)

So the world is under the bodily concept of life, so they are thinking that "We are Americans," "Indians." This is the disease. So they are described as animals, go-kharaḥ. Go means cow; kharaḥ means ass. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to save them from this animal consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means real consciousness, and without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, just animals. Therefore that Prahlāda Maharaja said,

sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā

deha-yogena dehinām

sarvatra labhyate daivād

yathā duḥkham ayatnataḥ

Dehātma-buddhi. So long we are under the concept of this body, that "I am this body," his business is sense gratification, because this body means senses. We have got varieties of senses. So the bodily concept of life means the senses are dominant. Therefore, beginning from the animals up to the human being, under the bodily concept of life they're busy simply for sense gratification. Nature is giving chance, "All right." Because everyone who has come to this material world, that is for sense gratification. Those who deny to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, they are sent here, "All right, you satisfy your sense by your labor here." Kṛṣṇa can satisfy His senses without any labor, but we have to satisfy our senses by dint of our labor. Not easy. You cannot become a millionaire so easy, or he cannot be a citizen in the heavenly planet so easy. That is our experience. So if some man from a poor family becomes, wants to become a citizen of America, a rich man, it is not so easy. You have to undergo through so many things to get the citizenship. There are so many, that your country, yes, they have got big immigration department simply to consider this application of different countries for citizenship, or to immigrate. I have seen, in Montreal, people applying for citizenship or immigration, big line, very big line, and a similar immigration department in Canada, there is no problem. So people very much anxious to become citizens in America, because it's a rich country. So as there is restriction here in this place, in this planet, that you cannot enter any other country... If you think their country is very nice, actually, in comparison to other countries, there are so many facilities in America. At least, one can earn money like anything. So people are inclined to become citizen. But that is not easy, even within this planet. So how you will easily enter moon planet and other heavenly planets without being competent? It is not possible.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This attachment increases. The material attachment. The material attachment means "I am this body, and because I have got this body in a particular place, that is my country." And that is going on. "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am German," "I am this," "I am that," this bodily... "This is my country. I shall sacrifice everything for my country, society." So in this way the illusion becomes increased. So under this illusion, when he dies he gets another body. That may be a superior body or inferior body according to his karma. So if he gets superior body, then that is also entanglement. Even if he goes to the heavenly planet, that is entanglement. And if he becomes cats and dogs, then his life's lost. A tree. There is every chance. So this science is not known in the world, that how the soul is transmigrating from one body to another and how he's being entrapped in different types of body. This science is unknown. Therefore when Arjuna was speaking from the bodily concept of life that "If I kill my brother, if I kill my grandfather, the other side..." So he was simply thinking on the basis of bodily concept of life. But when it was not solved he surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, accepted Him as spiritual master. And when Kṛṣṇa became his spiritual master He chastised him in the beginning. Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase (BG 2.11), that "You are talking like learned man, but you are a fool number one because you are talking on the bodily concept of life." So this sex life increases the bodily concept of life. Therefore the whole process is to reduce it to nil.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation for a few sentences) Dharmaṁ tu sākṣad bhagavat-praṇītam: (SB 6.3.19) "Religion is given by God." (Hindi) sarva-dharmān parityajya, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So this is religion. (Hindi) They are not religion. They are cheating. Bhāgavata says dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). "The cheating type of religion is kicked out." So we are following the same principle. We are kicking out all these cheating type of religion. It is explained any religion which does not recognize or do not understand the principles of religion, so that is cheating religion. Why religion? Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). This is religion. That is first-class religion, which teaches bhakti. Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje, to the Supreme, which is beyond our perception. Akṣaja. Akṣaja means within material perception. Beginning from "a" to "kṣa", whatever experience we have got... Or akṣa means eyes, senses. So within sense perception, whatever is there... God is beyond sense perception. Therefore God's name is Adhokṣaja. Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. That is first-class religion. Otherwise, there are so many religions, pseudo religions. They have been described in the Bhāgavata as kaitava. And Śrīdhara Svāmī gives his comments on this kaitava: chala-dharma. Chala-dharma means cheating. And he says particularly, mokṣa-vāñchāpi nirastam. That desire of merging into the Brahman effulgence, that is called mokṣa. Dharma-artha-kāma-mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90). Generally, people understand these four principles: religiosity, economic development, sense gratification and then merge into the effulgence, mokṣa, liberation. So Śrīdhara Svāmī says, up to mokṣa-vāñchā is cheating, kaitava. Up to mokṣa-vāñchā. Mokṣa-vāñchāpy atra nirastam, kevala bhagavad-upāsanā. That is dharma. That is real dharma. Bhagavad-upāsanā. So we are teaching that religion, bhagavad-upāsanā. Simply. We have no such ambition, to be elevated to the heavenly planet or to merge into the Brahman effulgence. No. We can live anywhere, even in the hell. It doesn't matter. But our worship of Kṛṣṇa shall continue. This is our religion. So we are not ambitious to go to heaven or higher planetary system or higher standard of life. We have no such ambition. We simply want Kṛṣṇa and worship Him, that's all. Never mind where it is. This is real dharma. Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. So this boy has become your celā (disciple). He's very nice boy. What is his name, Dhruvānanda? Or his father's name. What is your name?

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation continues for some sentences.) Who is practicing this? Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). He cannot be called a brāhmaṇa unless he acts according to his guṇa. If he's acting in differently, he should be... (break) ...utilized by the liberated person, still we can use it, provided we stop this process of animal killing. Then it will be very easier. This medicine... The doors will be... Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). Therefore whoever comes to us to become our student, our first proposition is that "You should give up these four principles, illicit sex, animal-eating, gambling and intoxication, up to drinking tea, coffee, cigarette." This is our condition. So the more you practice to these four prohibitive regulations, then you realize. Śrotramāno 'bhirāmāt. It will be very pleasing to the ear and to the mind. And unless anything is very pleasing, you cannot continue. Artificially, you can chant for few minutes. But if it becomes pleasing to you, then you can chant twenty-four hours, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. Caitanya Mahāprabhu advised, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ.

tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

(CC Adi 17.31)

So this is the only remedy, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Therefore you'll find all our students, they have got these beads. We have got these beads. Either we shall chant Hare Kṛṣṇa or we shall talk of Kṛṣṇa. That is also chanting. When you talk of Kṛṣṇa, that is also chanting. Kīrtana, kīrtana means kīrtayati, talking, speaking. Just like Parīkṣit Mahārāja. Parīkṣit Mahārāja: śrī-viṣṇoḥ śravaṇe parīkṣit. The item is śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). About Viṣṇu, to hear and chant. So simply by hearing about Viṣṇu, Parīkṣit Mahārāja became liberated. Śrī-viṣṇoḥ śravaṇe parīkṣid abhavad vaiyāsakiḥ kīrtane. Vaiyāsaki, the son of Vyāsadeva, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he became perfect kīrtane, by kīrtana. But he... He was... He did not chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, but he recited Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So that is also kīrtana. Talking of Kṛṣṇa, that is also kīrtana. Kīrtana does not always mean that you have to chan... You have to engage yourself always in glorifying the Lord. Just like Mahārāja Ambarīṣa. He was a busy emperor of the world, but he engaged himself... Sa vai puṁsām... kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ (SB 9.4.18). He fixed up his mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. This is first. If you fix up your mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, then: sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane and he was talking only describing and glorifying Vaikuṇṭha. God's another name is Vaikuṇṭha. In Madras they say Veṅkateśvara. Vaikuṇṭha. Kuṇṭha means anxiety. So God has no anxiety, and God's devotees have no anxiety. Therefore they are vaikuṇṭha. Here in the material world everyone has got anxiety. Therefore it is kuṇṭha, the world of kuṇṭha, anxieties. Everyone. Birds, beasts, human beings. There must be kuṇṭha. So God is Vaikuṇṭha. The vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. This is also chanting, kīrtana, to describe about Vaikuṇṭha. Vaikuṇṭhaloka, Vaikuṇṭha person, Vaikuṇṭha devotees. So this is the remedy of bhavauṣadhi. Bhava. Bhava means to take birth. Bhava. This is called bhava-saṁsāra, this material world. Here bhava, you take birth, you live for some time, again you die, again take birth. This is going on. Therefore it is called bhava-saṁsāra, repeatedly taking birth and death in different species of life, different planets and different forms, 8,400,000 species, varieties. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151), we living entities, we are wandering in this way, changing different bodies, different situations, different position and in this way wandering up and down, brahmāṇḍa bhramite, within this universe. Sometimes in the upper, heavenly planet, sometimes down in the hellish planet. Sometimes as human being, sometimes as cat, dog. Sometimes brāhmaṇa, sometimes śūdra, like that. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that the living entities are wandering like this. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite. Bhramite means wandering. Kona bhāgyavān jīva. One fortunate person, guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151), by the grace of guru and by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, one gets the seed of devotional service. Mālī hañā kare sei bīja āropaṇa (CC Madhya 19.152). And when you get a nice seed of plant, you sew it. So that seed has to be sewn within the heart. Mālī hañā kare sei bīja āropaṇa, śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye secana. So if we sew the seed within the heart and water it... And the watering required. The watering is this śravaṇa-kīrtana. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). Then it grows. And in due course of time, it gives you the fruit, which is love of Godhead. Then your life is successful. This is the process. So we have to try to sew the seed of devotional service within our heart, and it has to be watered by hearing and chanting. Then gradually it will grow. This is the process. And this is open for everyone. There is no restriction.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: What is the purport? Read.

Śrutakīrti: "The duration of the material universe is limited. It is manifested in cycles of kalpas. A kalpa is a day of Brahmā and one day of Brahmā consists of a thousand cycles of four yugas or ages, Satya, Tretā, Dvāpara and Kali. A cycle of Satya is characterized by virtue, wisdom and religion, there being practically no ignorance and vice, and the yuga lasts one million, seven hundred and twenty-eight thousand years. In the Tretā-yuga vice is introduced and this yuga lasts 1,296,000 years. In the Dvāpara-yuga there is an even greater decline in virtue and religion, vice increasing, and the yuga lasts 864,000 years. And finally in Kali-yuga, the yuga we have now been experiencing over the past five thousand years, there is an abundance of strife, ignorance, irreligion and vice, true virtue being practically non-existent, and this yuga lasts 432,000 years. In Kali-yuga vice increases to such a point that at the termination of the yuga, the Supreme Lord Himself appears as the Kalki avatāra, vanquishes the demons, saves His devotees and commences another Satya-yuga. Then the process is set rolling again. These four yugas, rotating a thousand times, compromise one day of Brahmā, the creator god, and the same number compromise one night. Brahmā lives one hundred of such years and then dies. These hundred years, by Earth calculations total to 311,000,040,000,000 Earth years. By these calculations, a life of Brahmā seems fantastic and interminable, but from the point, from the viewpoint of eternity, it is as brief as a lightning flash. In the Causal Ocean, there are innumerable Brahmās, rising and disappearing like bubbles in the Atlantic. Brahmā and his creation are all part of the material universe, and therefore they are in constant flux. In the material universe, not even Brahmā is free from the process of birth, disease, old age and death. Brahmā, however, is directly engaged in the service of the Supreme Lord in the management of this universe. Therefore he at once attains liberation. Elevated sannyāsīs are promoted to Brahmā's particular planet, Brahmaloka, which is the highest planet in the material universe, and which survives all the heavenly planets in the upper strata of the planetary system. But in due course, Brahmā, and all inhabitants of Brahmaloka are subject to death, according to the law of material nature."

Prabhupāda: In the higher planetary system also, the four rules, birth, death, old age and disease, they are also there. The life is long duration. But the miserable conditions of, or living conditions, that one must die, that is there also. Simply if you go to Kṛṣṇa's planet, you haven't got to die. Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Guest (1): So you think he has gone to heaven or some, what is his position?

Prabhupāda: No... But because he did not understand Rāma, therefore he cannot go to the kingdom of God. But he'll get very high position.

Guest (1): High position.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. He may go to the heavenly planet

Guest (1): Still in the material world.

Śrutakīrti: He said he's still in the material world. Heavenly planets is still the material world.

Prabhupāda: Heaven is in the material world. Heaven is in the material world. You can get greater standard of life, greater duration of life, that's all. Higher standard of life. Just like Brahmā. Brahmā's one day you cannot calculate. He's so powerful, how he's created this universe. But he is in the material world. He's also a living entity like us, but very exalted. So he cannot get the post of Brahmā. But he can get life in higher planetary system. That is certain. That is explained in the, find out that verse. That is explained in the...um. That verse, yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe (BG 6.41). But he did not understand Bhagavad-gītā, that's a fact.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Guest (1): The name is so powerful.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is that?

Pradyumna: Prāpya puṇya-kṛtāṁ lokān.

Prabhupāda: Ah, prāpya puṇya-kṛtāṁ lokān. This is the... So puṇya-kṛtāṁ lokān means heavenly planet. Prāpya puṇya-kṛtāṁ lokān. You cannot go to the heavenly planet unless you are very pious. So he's promoted in heavenly planet where the duration of life is very long, standard of living is very nice. But there is no Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What is that, prāpya puṇya-kṛtāṁ lokān?

Pradyumna: Uṣitvā śāśvatīḥ samāḥ (BG 6.41).

Prabhupāda: Uṣitvā śāśvatīḥ samāḥ. For a very long time. Because to get life in the heavenly planets means at least ten thousands of years. In their calculation. Their one day is equal to six months. In that way ten thousand years. Uṣitvā śāśvatīḥ samāḥ. What is it? Uṣitvā śāśvatīḥ samāḥ?

Pradyumna: Uṣitvā śāśvatīḥ samāḥ, śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate (BG 6.41).

Prabhupāda: Then, again they come down to this material world and he takes birth either in a very exalted brāhmaṇa family, śucīnām, or very rich, vaiśya family. After enjoying there, again he's given chance to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. And if he misses, then again he goes down. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says these are all false elevation. If I have to come again back, again I have to accept another lower grade life, then what is the profit? Kṛṣṇa gives His straight understanding, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti: (BG 4.9) You become Kṛṣṇa conscious. After the giving up this body, no more material body either in the heavenly planet or in the lower hellish planet. "You come direct to Me." That is perfection. You should not be attracted by somebody has gone to heavenly planet for ten thousands of years living. We should not be attracted by these things. Therefore Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī says, kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tridaśa-pur ākāśa-puṣpāyate. Tridaśa-pur means the heavenly planets. Ākāśa, it is just like will of the wisp. Something, just like, what do you say Hindi? There are many proverbs, which has no existence. Just like in Bengali we say ghoḍā-ḍima. Ghoḍa-ḍima. Ḍima means egg. The horse never lays down egg. But the word is running on: "the egg of horse." So it has no existence but the word is there. Similarly, what do you say in Hindi? Something which has no existence but it is current. I think there is.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Guest (1): Hawaikila (?).

Prabhupāda: Hawaikila, yes. Hawaikila means in the air there is a fort. It is something like, the Vaiṣṇava considers the heavenly planets, that hawaikila. That's all.

Guest (1): This rich birth is important for self-realization?

Prabhupāda: Next birth?

Devotees: Rich birth, to be born in a rich family.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. But there is facility. Because people are harassed for getting food and shelter. Everyone is working so hard where to get nice food, where to get nice shelter. Rich man means he has already got. So if he's sane, if he's good, has got good association, direction, then he can think, that "I have no anxiety for my food, shelter and other necessities of life. So how I shall utilize my time?" And if he gets good guru, then he can utilize very nicely, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is a chance. He hasn't got to work. Because people are very much perplexed how to get shelter, how to get food. But he has got the chance. He hasn't got to endeavor for food and shelter and other necessities of the body. Ample he has got. He can save time for spiritual advancement. That is an advantage. It is not necessary. It is almost disadvantage. But actually it is advantage. Unfortunately, those who are born in rich family, they take advantage of it that "I have got so much money, let me enjoy sense gratification." Māyā dictates, "Oh, you have got so much money. Utilize for wine-woman." That's all.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Still there are so many respectable person came. The governor came, the high-court justices and that, the Canadian ambassador came. Many men came. And he was very humble. He sat down below.

Guest (1): You didn't see the high commissioner there. He sat down.

Prabhupāda: He's also a very nice man.

Guest (1): Maybe some pious activities that they have.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): But this is their duty to respect.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...in this planet. In order to be elevated to the kingdom of God, they cannot go directly from the heavenly planet. They'll have to come here.

Guest (1): There are many stories in Mahābhārata. Many, many kings, they went to heavenly planets and from there. Many stories.

Prabhupāda: Kṣīṇe puṇye martya-lokaṁ viśanti (BG 9.21). You have got prasāda? Not yet. Come on. Any more? Any more? Another? Come on. (end)

Room Conversation -- November 1, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: ...gatvā duḥkhānusaṅgaminaḥ. There is misery. Even you go to the Moon planet... This is Bhāgavata. Before going to your Moon planet here is the information: "Anywhere you go rascal these things will follow, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9) and inconveniences. You'll have to suffer." So one's who's, one who is intelligent, then: "Where shall I find real happiness?" That is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore one requires to be very, very intelligent to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Sarva, sarvatra bhasananvita (?). The Śrīdhara Svāmī gives note, sarvatra lokāntare 'pi. Even if you go to other planets... Now these rascals are going now, trying, not going. And in the Bhāgavata says, lokāntare 'pi. Even in other planets. That means they were going in other planets. Otherwise how it is stated, lokāntare, "in other planets also"? From the statement it appears that people used to go. And here, Arjuna went to heavenly planet. And there the heavenly prostitute came to Arjuna. She's prostitute. So when Arjuna refused, that... His father is Indra...

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So Arjuna said that "You have connection with my father. Therefore you are my mother."

Śrutakīrti: You mentioned him in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta purport. When one yogi was performing severe austerities, Lord Indra would send the dancing girls. They were called...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Apsarās.

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: It is not possible.

Hṛdayānanda: They have a whole new department called gerontology to stop death. In one article they had about twenty different methods, and they said all of them, none of them have succeeded yet. But they were very confident.

Yaśomatīnandana: Even for them there is some medicine in the Vedas. If they go to heavenly planets they will be able to live longer. They are so stupid, śūdra class, that they can't.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Yaśomatīnandana: Even if they go to heavenly planets by following Vedas, still they will be able to live longer, but by their mundane efforts they will not be able to increase...

Prabhupāda: No, nobody... In the material world there is no question of living forever. That is not possible. That is in the spiritual world.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when the scientists explain why there are so many varieties of living entities, they have an explanation.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say, "At the time of evolution, the cells, the genes, sometimes..." Normally the gene is perfectly copied for the next generation, but sometimes there is a mistake in copying. Just like in the printing press sometimes we do some mistakes. Just like that, there are some mistakes along the path of evolution. So those mistakes, sometimes they just, according to the circumstances, they can stand, and they form a different living entity because of the difference of the genes.

Prabhupāda: But the mistake is continuing forever, because you'll find the varieties of living entities ever-existing. Therefore the mistake is permanent. So when it is permanent, it is not mistake. It is intelligence.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 5, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) This is material life. We are rounding sometimes this way, sometimes that way, and we are thinking "new." (devotees laugh) Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona (CC Madhya 19.151). In this way you are wandering all over the universe. Find out something new. But there is nothing new. Everything is old. (break) ...a living entity is offered change of the body. You see? When he becomes fatigued of this life, "It's so troublesome"—old men generally think like that. So he has to change another, another new body, child. Since born he is taken care, he thinks "Now, I have got so comfortable life." And again becomes old, disgusted, so he cannot live disgusting, therefore Kṛṣṇa is so kind: "All right, change body again." Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Chewing the chewed. The business is the same, but changing body gives some relief. Just like these men, the business is they're wasting time by changing, wasting time at home, come to the golf club. That's all. The business is the same—wasting time, either here or there. Kṛṣṇa is giving so much facilities. Sometimes, "All right, you become tree." "All right, some, become a serpent," "All right, you become a demigod," "All right, you become a human being," "All right, you become king," "You become a cobbler," "You go to the heavenly planets," "Go to the hellish planets." Varieties is there. Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He's changing varieties, atmosphere of life. But he's packed up in this material world. That freedom... He's asking for freedom, but he does not know the freedom is the shelter of Kṛṣṇa. That he'll not accept. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has arranged so many varieties. In disgust the Māyāvādīs, they want to make the varieties variety-less, nirviśeṣa. And the Buddhists they want to make it zero. But that is also not possible. Remain zero for some time. Again he will want varieties. Big, big Māyāvādī sannyāsī, they preach so much brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, but again they come to the political work, social work. Simply remain as brahma, "I am brahma," you cannot remain for many days. Then he has to accept these material varieties. Variety is the mother of enjoyment, so therefore our proposition is "Come to the real variety, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then your life will be successful."

Morning Walk -- January 23, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: That is not missed.

Sudāmā: No.

Prabhupāda: Therefore, Bhāgavata says, viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. Viṣaya, the four things—eating, sleeping, mating, defending—in any condition of life they're available. They're available. It doesn't matter in what condition of life you are living, but these things are available. Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. Sarvataḥ means everywhere, in any condition. This is available. And still, people are busy for these four things. Good morning. (to passers-by) That is assured, that any condition of life, you'll have these four things. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ (SB 1.5.18). Therefore we should not endeavor for these four things. That is already fixed. I'll get in any condition of life. Then? What for our energy should be employed? Which was not available, wandering up and down, beginning from the heavenly planet down to the Pluto's planet. This is a passenger ship?

Sudāmā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: They stand there, and passengers come here? Through boats?

Sudāmā: Yes. The ships like this go around the Orient, to japan and Indonesia. (japa) Are the shoes comfortable?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...available in any condition of life. People are making gorgeous arrangement for that thing. Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. Viṣaya, material necessities, they are available...

Passers-by: Good morning.

Prabhupāda: Good morning. In any condition of life: birds, bees, insect, vagabond, wretched... Everyone will get it. (break) ...motorcars, in your country. If somehow or other, one can secure one motorcar, then life is secure.

Morning Walk -- January 23, 1974, Hawaii:

Bali Mardana: What is exactly the position of the Vasus?

Prabhupāda: Vasus, they are demigods. Before appearance of Kṛṣṇa, some of the exalted demigods were ordered to come and arrange for His arrival. So Uddhava arrived, and many others arrived. They were coming from heavenly planets.

Bali Mardana: Bhīṣmadeva was also one of the Vasus previously.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Aṣṭa-vasu.

Bali Mardana: In Bhīṣmadeva's instructions, while he was dying, one of the questions that he was asked is "Which is more powerful, action or destiny, karma?" He replied that they are both very powerful, but of the two, action was more powerful.

Prabhupāda: Time. Reaction. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa... What is that bird? (tropical—sounding bird in background) Bird, or something else?

Bali Mardana: Bird.

Prabhupāda: That sound? (break) ...our philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness if they actually want to be happy. This is a fact. Not sentimentally, but scientifically, philosophically. Let them... Let the biggest scientists, biggest philosopher, come and understand. (break) ...gone away, but nobody saw.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: No, he has... I mean, delivered. I was not able to understand for many years this one. Ūrdhva-mūlam... (break) ...and this illusionary shadow.

Prabhupāda: This is maintained by Vedic injunction. Just like people are very much attached to fruitive activities. They are attached to that. They do not want to go beyond. The karmīs. Karmīs, their whole ambition is how to go to these heavenly planets. He does not know that what is the benefit of going to the heavenly planets? He does not know. Therefore he is amazed by the chandāṁsi, Vedic chandāṁsi. Yām imāṁ puṣpitāṁ vācam, veda-vādinaḥ. So they are especially attached to these Vedic...

Chandobhai: Injunctions of action.

Prabhupāda: Fruitive activities. They do not accept this: ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). They'll not. "No, no. We shall go to..." Just like these rascals are going to the Candraloka. Candraloka. (laughter) Now other rascals supporting them: "Oh, now we are..." (laughter)

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Svar-gatim, those who are desiring to go to the Svarga-loka, heavenly planet, they go. They go...

Dr. Patel: And come back.

Prabhupāda: ...but again come back.

Dr. Patel:

Te taṁ bhuktvā svarga-lokaṁ viśālaṁ

kṣīṇe puṇye martya-lokaṁ viśanti

(BG 9.21)

Prabhupāda: Yes. But those who are devotees, they do not come back.

Dr. Patel:

Evaṁ trayī-dharmam anuprapannā

gatāgataṁ kāma-kāmā labhante

(BG 9.21)

Prabhupāda: This is trayī-dharma, Vedic process.

Dr. Patel:

ananyāś cintayanto māṁ

ye janāḥ paryupāsate

teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ

yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham

(BG 9.22)

Prabhupāda: The devotees, they do not care for anybody. Simply depending on Kṛṣṇa. Therefore whatever necessities they require, Kṛṣṇa will supply.

Dr. Patel: Ye 'py anya-devatā-bhaktā yajante śraddhayānvitāḥ. (Hindi) Te 'pi mām eva kaunteya yajanty avidhi-pūrvakam (BG 9.23). Ahaṁ hi sarva-yajñānāṁ bhoktā ca prabhur eva ca, na tu mām abhijānanti tattva...(BG 9.24).

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is performing yajña. Just like the yajnic brāhmaṇa in Vṛndāvana. Kṛṣṇa went there and asked for some food. "Heḥ!"

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. "Now, the devayājas, they can go to the heavenly planet. Pitṛs and śraddhā performer, they go Pitṛloka. Bhūtejyā. Those who are worshiping this material world, they remain here. But if one worships Me, he comes to Me."

Dr. Patel: Come to Me in Goloka Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is open, but an intelligent person will think that "Why shall I go to Svarga-loka? Why shall I remain here? Why shall I go to Pitṛloka? Let me go direct to Kṛṣṇa." Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). That is intelligent, to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, to take to Kṛṣṇa wholeheartedly. That is real intelligence. Otherwise mūḍha, whatever he may be.

Dr. Patel: Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26).

Prabhupāda: Ah. And to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, it does not require any expensive material. If you have nothing to offer, you can offer patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ. He will be satisfied. And performing this yajña and other, oh, you have got to collect so much ghee, so much grain, so much mantras, so many learned brāhmaṇas and this and that. You have nothing to do. Anywhere, any part of the world, universal. Any man, poor man, rich man, can offer Kṛṣṇa whatever He has got. Kṛṣṇa is satisfied.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: That's all. They have got some intelligence. They are utilizing for piling up these stones and bricks. That's all. This is their intelligence, how to pile up nicely stones and bricks. Crane. The same thing. The real business is to pile up some stones and bricks, that's all. They are making research, engineering. The real business is how to pile up stones and bricks. That's all. The same business as the children pile up some sand and imagine "This is park, this is this, this is that."

Dhanañjaya: Didn't Rāvaṇa want to pile up stones and bricks, too, to reach the heavenly planets.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. No, he was a materialist. That is the business of the materialist. What is this? Aerodrome? No.

Dhanañjaya: No, this is a restaurant.

Prabhupāda: They can eat down. (laughter) These rascals are thinking eating on this top, this is their advancement of civilization. And waste energy. The human energy is so valuable that one can understand his real life, self-realization—that they forget. They wasting the energy for making a restaurant on the sky. They think it is advancement.

Dhanañjaya: They want to dominate over the material energy.

Prabhupāda: What is that dominate? One kick will finish everything. That is illusion. They are thinking, "We are going to dominate," but they are dominated always. Therefore, because they have no intelligence, they cannot understand. One earthquake can finish all this. All go down immediately. So what is that dominate? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ kar... (BG 3.27). The prakṛti, nature, is giving chance just like father and mother give chance that the children pile up stone and sand. "Let them play." Similarly prakṛti, mother prakṛti, nature, giving all this, "Let this rascal play like that. What can be done?" He does not know that "After this piling of stones and bricks, I will have to leave this place. And I do not know where I am going." So less intelligence. And they do not know what he is. He is thinking, "I am this body," but this body will be finished. That's all. "I was zero. I assumed some body. Now again I shall become zero." That's all. Śūnyavādī. Nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādī. It is covered? (break) ...viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Durāśayā, some utopian hope of becoming happy. This is called durāśayā.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Roost, Hatha-yogi -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: As the karmīs, they are in the bodily concept of life. They are working day and night trying to improve the material condition of life, not only in this life, but also in the next life. They are performing different ritualistic ceremonies for being promoted to the heavenly planet, like that. So they are all karmīs. Either in this world or in the next world, they are called karmīs. So karmī means they want comfort of this body. And the yogis, they are also on the concept of this body. They are identifying this body as designated Brahman, upādhi-brahma, "Brahman with designation." But their central point is this body. That... This bodily concept of life, so long it continues in the form of karma-yogī or dhyāna-yogī, it can give him relief from the cycle of birth and death and merge into the Brahman effulgence. Brahma-sāyujya-mukti, this is called, technically. The jñānīs also. But that is not final. There is still farther. Even there is brahma-sārūpya-mukti, brahma-sālokya-mukti, brahma-sarṣṭi-mukti. So generally, the yogis and the jñānīs, they aim at brahma-sāyujya-mukti, to merge into the Brahman effulgence. But that is not final. Final is bhakti-yoga. After advancing, if the yogi gets the chance of associating with pure devotee and he engages himself in the transcendental loving service of the Lord, that is final perfection.

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: And there is no water also.

Karandhara: No.

Bhagavān: No, water.

Yogeśvara: They say that the moon is covered by a very thick layer of dust.

Prabhupāda: But according to our śāstra, moon is one of the heavenly planets. (break) ...is moon in any way? Because there is no water?

Karandhara: They say that if they want to set up some houses there, they have to, everything has to be brought there. There's nothing there to use.

Prabhupāda: How the house will be brought there?

Karandhara: Well, they plan on in the future building stations and...

Prabhupāda: The water has to be taken from the station?

Karandhara: Yes. Air, water, everything has to be taken.

Prabhupāda: Oh. And still they must go there. And we are proposing another planet, Vaikuṇṭha planet. They are not willing to go there.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Paramahaṁsa: There's a verse in the Bhāgavatam that says that one moment's association with a pure devotee is greater than liberation from the material world or than innumerable...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: ...years of enjoyment on heavenly planets.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: My question is: A pure devotee, when he comments Bhagavad-gītā, someone who never sees him physically, but he just comes in contact with his commentary, explanation, is this the same thing?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You can associate with Kṛṣṇa by reading Bhagavad-gītā. And these saintly persons, they have given their explanations, comments. So where is the difficulty? Everyone is helping you.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: You've said that the Bhagavad-gītā is Kṛṣṇa's mind.

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not different from His mind. Why do you say like that? This is material conception, the soul is different from body, the mind is different from soul. But Kṛṣṇa has no such difference. Therefore He's called absolute. Advaya-jñāna. His mind and Kṛṣṇa are the same. Kṛṣṇa and His name is the same. Kṛṣṇa and His words are the same. This is Kṛṣṇa understanding. Jesus Christ simply said that "Hallowed be Thy name." That means there is name. Now the question is why he did not say or utter the name? Now, there is already name. Why should he utter?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Right.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Madhudviṣa: What is the necessity of renouncing everything? You can't be...

Prabhupāda: Not renouncing, not renouncing. Just like our (?) think of future, that is also for present benefit. Future, future... The best intelligence is that just like one is afraid of suffering in old age, future. So there is. That is not ignorance. That is future life. So karmīs are thinking future life should be very comfortable. They want to go to the heavenly planets. They therefore act very piously, perform yajñas. That is all future. So real problem is that we are going to get another body in future. So what kind of body we shall get? That is intelligence. Body you have to get. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So one should be very intelligent—"What kind of body I am going to get?"

Brahmānanda: Why can't we have sense gratification and God also at the same time?

Prabhupāda: That is Bhagavad-gītā, that aviruddho-kāmo 'smi. "Sense gratification which is not against religious principles, that sense gratification I am," Kṛṣṇa says. We do not stop sense gratification, but we want to regulate sense gratification like a gentleman, not like hogs and dogs. That is human civilization. Sense gratification like hogs and dogs, not required. Sense gratification... People are following that. Although they are so degraded, still, they have not sanctioned as yet to have openly sense gratification on the street like hogs and dogs. That is regulated. That's still going on. But because the civilization is gliding down to animalism, they don't want this restriction. That is the hippies' protest, that, "Why this convention required? Let us enjoy like hogs and dogs." That is advancement.

Discussion -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Devotee (1): Just by becoming first-class men.

Prabhupāda: That is described. Śamo damas titikṣā, that... You were not here, hearing? That is first class.

Devotee (1): So just by becoming first-class men you can go to the heavenly planets?

Prabhupāda: Yes. But that is meant for a first-class man. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti. Ūrdhvam means higher planetary system.

Devotee (1): Are we not training all classes of men? In Kṛṣṇa consciousness...

Prabhupāda: We can train any class to become first class. It is simply by education. Just like anyone can become engineer by training. Where is the difficulty? Nobody is born first class, but we can make first class if he agrees to become first class. Two things required: he must agree, and the teachings are there. Then he becomes first class. Where is the difficulty?

Devotee (1): But you say, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that the four classes are necessary.

Prabhupāda: They already there, four classes of men, but they should be properly trained up. Then the society will be in order. Just like this man, he is considered to be first-class man in the society. He is in charge of some department. But actually, he is fourth class. So as he is little trained up by a moment's instruction, if he agrees to be trained up, he can become. He's young man, within thirty years.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: If they stop, then they are failure.

Paramahaṁsa: Yeah. And then everyone will complain, "Oh, you wasted billions of dollars."

Prabhupāda: And if they go, then they will have the right information. But they will never be able to go.

Devotee (1): Just like Rāvaṇa could not reach the heavenly planets just by building the staircase.

Prabhupāda: That was his only demonic proposal, that "We make staircase." He said that "Why you are undergoing so much austerities to go to the heavenly planets? I shall make a staircase. You will go."

Amogha: How high did he make it?

Prabhupāda: He never attempted. He simply bluffed, that's all. So demons' proposals are like that. Therefore it is a common say in, hearsay in the, in India, that rāvaṇe sarge sini(?): "The proposal is just like Rāvaṇa proposed to make a staircase to the heavenly planets." He was also very much advanced materially, very prosperous materially. Gold was very common thing. He brought gold from Brazil through the subway. His brother was king there, in southern America.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No, maybe there. There were... All the kings of the world, they joined, either this party or that party. Friends, friendly countries, they joined. Just like Kṛṣṇa. He personally joined Arjuna, but He gave His soldiers to Duryodhana. It was family war. So the friends divided, "I will join you." It was sporting. For the kṣatriya fighting is sporting. They have football match. They did not take it as enmities. Just in the evening they are friends. This party goes to that party, that party goes to... It is a decision, who will be king, that's all. Test of strength. Actually it was not enmity. "Let us fight, and who is strong he will be king, that's all."

Devotee (1): And the losers will go to the heavenly planets.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyone who dies in such fight, he goes to heavenly planet.

Devotee (1): So they were not afraid of dying.

Prabhupāda: No, why? They knew. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "I am not going to die after the annihilation of this body." It was a common understanding. Not that such a man, big man, director, he says, "No, no, I don't believe in the soul." (chuckles) Therefore I said the fourth-class man. In India still, even a common man, uneducated farmer, he believes. He believes. He believes in God. He believes in transmigration. He believes in his karma. These things which will take thousands of years to be learned by the Westerners, even the common man knows still.

Morning Walk -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Madhudviṣa: The demons are trying to go to the heavenly planets by building their skyscrapers higher and higher.

Prabhupāda: Rāvaṇa's, Rāvaṇa's staircase for going to the heaven. He promised that "Oh, what is the use of austerity? I shall make a staircase directly. You can go." As their... It is the same, Rāvaṇa's staircase and the modern attempt to go to the moon planet, the same thing. They will never be able to go, but imagining that "We shall do it." The same process, Rāvaṇa's process. For how many years they are going? Since 1950?

Devotee: To the moon expedition?

Prabhupāda: Yes, moon expedition.

Devotee: Maybe 1955.

Madhudviṣa: 1955.

Devotee: The first moon landing was 1961.

Prabhupāda: That is beginning. First of all they sent dog. (laughter)

Madhudviṣa: Space dog. Space mouse.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Space mouse.

Devotee: Space monkey also.

Prabhupāda: So since 1955 even. So twenty years, what they have done?

Devotee: Spent billions of dollars.

Prabhupāda: Yes, simply they have brought little dust, that's all.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1975, Honolulu:

Paramahaṁsa: Oh, yes. Arabia they grow.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. (break) ...desert nice watermelon will grow. Yes. Nice dates. So people go there, take the dates and take the watermelon. Kṛṣṇa has provided food even there. (break)

Harikeśa: Would one see gross form on a subtle planet?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Harikeśa: Like the moon planet is heavenly planet. They're supposed to have subtle bodies there. So would there be any gross forms?

Prabhupāda: Why subtle body? That is material body.

Harikeśa: So we would not be able to see any traces of a civilization?

Prabhupāda: There is civilization. You have not gone there, rascal. You are simply imagining. (Devotees laugh) There is civilization. First thing is, you rascal, you did not go. You are talking only nonsense. That's it.

Paramahaṁsa: (break) ...Rahu planet, that's a hellish planet?

Prabhupāda: Yes. They might have gone to that hellish planet. That's all.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Ambarīṣa: ...don't know what good and bad is. They think if you don't kill anybody that you will go to heaven. I mean any human being.

Siddha-svarūpa: But they think that this is only one? They do accept that there's life after this life and that they will live either in heavenly planets...

Prabhupāda: Otherwise what is the meaning of going to God? They believe it.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What is, the Bible says, "Come to kingdom of God"?

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So if you have no next life, how you are going to there?

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. They accept another life.

Prabhupāda: Then that is... Another life means soul.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But that requires faith. One who does not know what is God and what is protection, how he can take to it? He depends on his own energy. That is karmīs. He wants to happy by his own energy not only in this life but also next life, by acting very piously, wants to be promoted in the heavenly planets. That is fact. One can go. But that is on account of his own labor. But here the bhaktas, they are taken care of, the Supreme Lord. So just like child. He doesn't care how he will live comfortably. But the father takes care. That is the position of bhakta. The karmīs, they are taking care of themselves. But the devotees, they are taken care of by the Supreme. That is difference. What is that?

Jayatīrtha: This is the preliminary outline for the college course that Dr. Judah is going to be helping us with in Berkeley. This describes the basic purposes of the college and describes some of the courses that we'll be offering.

Prabhupāda: Our books?

Jayatīrtha: Yes, there's a course in each book.

Bahulāśva: This is what Dr. Judah belongs to, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Bahulāśva: This is a union of various theological schools. So now in Berkeley we have this very nice building, and we can become a member of this Graduate Theological Union. I have been working with Dr. Judah for about one year, and we've talked about this before. And he said that he will sponsor us.

Prabhupāda: So I shall take it?

Morning Walk -- July 3, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: This is jñāna, knowledge. When one comes to this conclusion, "This is worthless," that is jñāna, knowledge. And so long one will think, "No, it is not always bad, sometimes very good," that is ignorance. (laughs)

Kuruśreṣṭha: They say that without the bad, then the good wouldn't be as good.

Prabhupāda: So you remain with bad and good. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. That possibility is here. Sometimes you are going to the higher heavenly planets, a long duration of life, better standard of enjoyment—again coming back. (break) Good and bad is exemplified: just like I catch you and put down the water, and when you are suffocated, I raise you little, and you say, "Oh. (laughter) It is very nice." But you do not know, again you are going to be... You see? "This good, bad" is here like that. He is put into the water and suffocated, and when he is taken out little, he says, "Oh, it is very good. It is very good." The rascal does not know, the next moment he is going to be again drowned in that. That is going on. Daṇḍya-jane rāja-jana... That was the chief punishment formerly. If one has to be punished, instead of putting into the jail and feed him, the officers will take him to a river and put him in the water. In this way, one day doing, he will say "I will never do these things. Please excuse me." Daṇḍya-jane rāja-jane nadite cubaya. (break) ...unless one remembers this, that "To be in the material world, how suffocating it is," he will not fit for going to back to Godhead. He must be completely detestful. If he keeps little attachment, "No, it is very good sometimes," then you have to remain here. (break) "This is not permanent. I shall be put next moment in the bad condition." That he must know. That is knowledge.

Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda:

oṁ ajñāna-timirāndhasya

jñānāñjana-śalākayā

cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena

tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ

(I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.)

Ladies and gentlemen, regarding Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... (about microphone:) It is working? We are talking about the spiritual existence of the living being. By evolutionary process we come to the human form of life, and here we have got developed consciousness. We can decide now which way to go forward. There are different planetary system. That we can experience. We can see innumerable planets, upwards and downwards. So the upper planetary system is called Svargaloka, or the heavenly planets, and the middle planetary system is called Martyaloka or Bhurloka, in which we are staying at the present moment, and the down planetary system is called Pātālaloka or downwards. Downwards means fall down, upwards means getting promotion, and middle means we remain where we are now. That is... Indication is given in the Bhagavad-gītā, ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā: (BG 14.18) "Those who are cultivating the modes of goodness, they are promoted to the higher planetary system." And madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ. "Those who are passionate or under the modes of passion, they remain in the middle planetary system." And jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ: "And those (whose) character is very abominable, they go down."

Morning Walk -- July 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the moon is further away than the sun.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore I say they have never gone to moon. Never gone.

Hṛdayānanda: What is that? Rahu. (break)

Nalinī-kaṇṭha: They say that they can see stars trillions of miles away.

Prabhupāda: But they cannot go. That's a fact. According to their estimation, the moon is the nearest. So they cannot go there. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...deva-vratā devān. Moon is one of the heavenly planets. So unless one is very advanced in karma-kāṇḍa, offering sacrifices, nobody can go there. It is not so easy. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). Those who are more and more higher status of goodness, they are promoted in the highest planet. Not by drinking wine and driving a sputnik one can... (laughter) It is not so easy. (break) ...also drink soma-rasa. The residents of the moon, they live for ten thousand years.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ten thousand of their years.

Prabhupāda: Yes, deva.

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Brahmānanda: The red one?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is also male. (break) ...for their family. Gṛha-vratānām. Wife, children, they are also enjoying. Viṣayaḥ khalu... This wife and children and material happiness he will get in any form of life. So if the human life is also the same thing, then where is the benefit? But they are proud that "The... They are loitering on the..., without any home. We have constructed this home. Therefore we are advanced." This is their philosophy. The business is the same. "That's all right. But we are improved." This is advancement. Business is the punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), the same sex, same eating, the same sleeping, same defending, but in an improved way. Even in the heavenly planet, wherever you go, the same thing, simply... Just like this country and Europe, the standard of living different, but the business is the same. And the... When they improve or so-call improve the standard of living, they think, "Now we are advanced." And what about your death? (aside:) Stop. The chicken is also dying; you are also dying. What is your improvement? That they cannot say. Real problem they cannot solve. Simply a little high standard of living, and they think this is advancement. And the Western civilization is influencing all other parts of the world in that way—"Improve the standard of living." There is no improvement, but it is māyā; they are thinking, "This is improvement."

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: You have got this? Veda-vāda-ratāḥ? Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, here it is.

yām imāṁ puṣpitāṁ vācaṁ

pravadanty avipaścitaḥ

veda-vāda-ratāḥ pārtha

nānyad astīti vādinaḥ

kamātmānaḥ svarga-parā

janma-karma-phala-pradām

kriyā-viśeṣa bahulāṁ

bhogaiśvarya-gatiṁ prati

"Men of small knowledge are very much attached to the flowery words of the Vedas, which recommend various fruitive activities for elevation to heavenly planets, resultant good birth, power, and so forth. Being desirous of sense gratification and opulent life, they say that there is nothing more than this."

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Purport: People in general are not very intelligent, and due to their ignorance they are most attached to the fruitive activities recommended in the karma-kāṇḍa portion of the Vedas. They do not want anything more than sense gratificatory proposals for enjoying life in heaven, where wine and women are available and material opulence is very common. In the Vedas many sacrifices are recommended for elevation to the heavenly planets, especially the jyotiṣṭoma sacrifices. In fact, it is stated that anyone desiring elevation to heavenly planets must perform these sacrifices, and men with a poor fund of knowledge think that this is the whole purpose of Vedic wisdom. It is very difficult for such inexperienced persons to be situated in the determined action of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As fools are attached to the flowers of poisonous trees without knowing the results of such attractions, similarly unenlightened men are attracted by such heavenly opulence and the sense enjoyment thereof. In the karma-kāṇḍa section of the Vedas it is said that those who perform the four monthly penances become eligible to drink the somarasa beverages to become immortal and happy forever. Even on this earth some are very eager to have somarasa to become strong and fit to enjoy sense gratifications. Such persons have no faith in liberation from material bondage, and they are very much attached to the pompous ceremonies of Vedic sacrifices. They are generally sensual, and they do not want anything other than the heavenly pleasures of life. It is understood that there are gardens called nandana-kanana, in which there is good opportunity for association with angelic, beautiful women and having a profuse supply of somarasa wine. Such bodily happiness is certainly sensual. Therefore there are those who are purely attached to material temporary happiness as lords of the material world."

Prof. Olivier: Well, so we are left in this twentieth century, this last part of the century, with a new global search for, or the truth of the spirit. We, of course, in the Western world are not familiar with the Gītā and so on.

Prabhupāda: No.

Prof. Olivier: But our problem is basically, I think, the one that you raised, was how do we make... How do we make a reality, a scientific reality? And I think you were quite right. I think people, very few people, get the point that you were trying to make there.

Prabhupāda: That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā, scientific reality. Therefore I raised that question. But nobody could reply properly. They thought it a kind of Hindu conception. No. That is not Hindu conception. That is the basic principle of living condition. We are changing body, and there are so many varieties of body. We may enter in any one of them after death. That is the real problem. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Nature's work is going on. This body is a machine. This machine, just like a car, has been offered to us by material nature, by the order of God, Kṛṣṇa. And we are moving, transmigration. So the real purpose of life is to stop this migration, transmigration, perpetually from one body to another, one body to another, and revive our original, spiritual position so that we can live eternally, blissful life of knowledge. That is the aim of life. The whole Vedic conception is based on this principle.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of religion. This is the, I mean to say, our position, real position. Religion develops. Religion is a kind of faith. That develops according to time, circumstances, people. But reality is this, that we are spirit soul. We are now conditioned by the laws of material nature, and we are carried away by the laws of material nature and transmigrating from one body to another, sometimes happy, sometimes distressed, or sometimes heavenly planet, sometimes lower planet. This is going on. And human life is meant for stopping this process of transmigration and revive our original consciousness, and go back to home, back to Godhead, and live eternally, blissful life of knowledge. This is the whole scheme of Vedic literature. And Bhagavad-gītā is the synopsis how to attain this life. Therefore, the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā begins to understand the constitutional position of the soul. Then other things. First of all we have to understand what we are, whether I am this body or something else. This is the first understanding. So I was trying to explain this, but that Mr. Chadda, he would bring that "You want to introduce Hindu conception." It is not Hindu conception. It is the scientific conception. I am a child for some time. Then I become a boy for some time. Then I become a young man, some time. Then I become old man. In this way I am changing body. This is not Hindu conception or Vedic conception. This is a fact. But he would not hear that. He would simply say, "You are trying to push Hindu conception of..." And what is this Hindu conception? It is equally applicable to everyone.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: What is their idea? I do not know.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Their idea is that in the beginning there was darkness until God created the light. Then he created the different heavenly planets and the oceans and the inanimate things. Then He created…

Prabhupāda: Then it is like Brahmā.

Harikeśa: It is like Brahmā. And their heaven and hell is like the upper and lower planetary systems. It's all little bit of knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Little difference, maybe, but the basic…

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They say that Adam was created…

Prabhupāda: Then their God created. God created. So that is all right. We also say God created Brahmā.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Then they say that woman was created from a rib of Adam.

Prabhupāda: That is also correct. That is also possible. Created from God, so that is accepted. The description may be little different. That doesn’t matter. But God is the origin of all creation. If that is accepted, this is nice.

Morning Walk -- November 10, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He was professor of Presidents' College, Calcutta. Their opinion is Sanskrit is the mother of all languages.

Dr. Patel: In Russian language there are so many Sanskrit words.

Prabhupāda: Deva-nāgarī. In the heavenly planets this language is... Heavenly planet the Sanskrit language is used. Therefore it is called deva-nāgarī. Nāgara means town, and deva means demigod. This language is spoken in the heavenly planets, deva-nāgara. But these rascals, they think there is no living entity in any other planet except this.

Dr. Patel: Now the scientists have started saying...

Prabhupāda: So what kind of scientists? They can change their opinion?

Dr. Patel: Then they are learning science.

Prabhupāda: Rascals, say rascals. No, no, say... Learning means rascals.

Dr. Patel: (laughs) Then we are all rascals.

Prabhupāda: No. We are learning not from rascal; we are learning from the perfect. We may be rascals, but learning is not rascal.

Room Conversation -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Hari-śauri: Pup.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They follow, some gentleman. And because at that time it is good living, somebody takes charge, "Alright let me take this pup." And the children also like, so he gets some shelter. So similarly, according to different body the activities begins. Therefore body is the field of activities. A snake, because he has got the field of activity of a snake's body, from the very beginning he is very, very envious. The same, trying to bite others. In this way our activities begin according to the body. And this change of bodies take place in the lower animal life automatically, by nature's law. Prakṛte kriyamānāni guṇai karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ. But when comes to the form of a human being, on account of developed consciousness, he has got responsibility. He has to make his choice. He is suffering in this material world changing different types of bodies, one after another, and the propensity to lord it over the material world is going on. Now he has to change the consciousness, whether he wants to continue this propensity for lording over the material world, or he wants to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. This choice has to be made by the human being. If he makes his choice after getting good education from the right source, that "I am going on in the wrong way, by the desire to lord it over the material nature but I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa therefore I must surrender now. Bahūnā janmanām ante jñānavān mām... This is wisdom. And if we do not get this wisdom, simply like animals we continue to lord it over the material nature, by acquiring money. Dharma, artha, kama. Then we are spoiling our life. Separate times we become religious for being promoted to higher standard of life, economic development, big, big scheme, plans, how to make gorgeous city, buildings, roads, cars, slaughter house, scientific, how to cut throat very scientifically. These plans are going on. Some of them are trying to be religious to go to the heaven because he has heard, and that's a fact also, that heavenly planets the standard of living is more opulent, hundreds and thousands times, the sex enjoyment, is hundred and thousand times better. So by so-called religious functions and sacrifices, they are engaged the same, how to satisfy the senses. The dog is also anxious to satisfy his senses. As soon as he finds a female dog, he wants to make friendship with her and have sex. On the street, never mind. And similarly the demigods they are also engaged in the same business. In a different standard only.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- May 26, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Not now. They sold in the beginning. They're so hopeful now that "We shall go to the moon." Some family (inaudible) "Oh, scientific advancement. Yes, they go to the moon. So I have got money. Why not purchase a ticket so I can go to the moon?" There are many persons in your country who can very easily pay $50,000 for purchasing tickets for going to the moon planet.

Hari-śauri: It's like Rāvaṇa's promise of being able to go to the heavenly planets by climbing up the staircase.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...believed in the words of śāstra. Even I am not scientist, still I shall.... It is all childish. And it has proved childish. I do not say that I am better than the scientists. No. But on the words of śāstra, I say this is childish. They'll never be able to go to the moon. (break) The Americans who are here, mostly they are tourists. They're not residents.

Devotee (6): Some of them are retired, I believe.

Prabhupāda: Some, they're some. Otherwise they are tourists.

Devotee (5): Yes. (break) (end)

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Of course, we do not go into the details of this. My question is that why Sunday first and Monday second? Nobody can apli..., replies.

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda once also argued that the dust, the dirt that they brought back, it did not reflect any light, but the moon is always reflecting light. So it was a different substance than what must be on the moon surface.

Prabhupāda: Now, according to our Vedic scripture, Moon is one of the heavenly planets.

Reporter: Are there any other Vedic scriptures that you believe speak to a situation that is greatly misunderstood today besides this?

Prabhupāda: No. Vedic understanding means there is no different Vedic version.

Reporter: But do people, say another example where what you hold is very different from what the rest of society holds, is there something else that would be...

Prabhupāda: No. Why...

Rāmeśvara: No, he means, Prabhupāda, that just like modern man is thinking that they went to the moon, and our Vedic scripture says they didn't, so he's asking are there any other controversies, just like reincarnation, transmigration...

Prabhupāda: No, so far Vedic students are concerned, there are no controversies.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: He has got big belly. (laughter) And Brahmānanda. Gargamuni also. Acyutānanda, yes. In India?

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: These karmīs and their sputniks, they're claiming they're going to heavenly planets, all these planets all over the universe, but you tell us that they can't actually go to these places.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you have got suitable machine you can go.

Bhūdhara: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhūdhara: They now say that they're going to attempt to create a planet that has perfect air, and trees, and they're only charging...

Prabhupāda: Another bogus. Another bluff. So be satisfied with their bluffs. That's all. (break, conversation continues in car)

Rāmeśvara: The sun planet is seated on a chariot, and it is pulled by horses? They take it to be mythology.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Rāmeśvara: They cannot imagine how horses can be flying in the sky.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And pulling an entire planet.

Prabhupāda: Because you cannot imagine it, there is no such thing? What is the value of your imagination?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But you just said by your imagination you can grow a beak.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Trivikrama: The bad way is also the mercy of the Lord to help us realize that...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Bad way, good way, man proposes, God disposes. You want something, bad or good.... Actually, everything is bad. This body or the fish's body or the dog's body, that is all material body. So everything is bad. But I prefer to get the body of a human being or a dog or a fish or a bird. That is my choice. So God gives you that body. Everywhere God's mercy is there, because whatever you want, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). In the material world, you have come to enjoy. You cannot enjoy. You are thinking.... Just like child. He's playing with something for sometime, again taking another thing, again taking another thing, childish. So similarly we want to enjoy this material world. Sometimes I am thinking it will be convenient if I get a man's body, it will be convenient if I get a tiger's body, it will be convenient if I get a fish's body. So God is supplying you: "All right, you take this body." So what is God's fault? He is very kind. You wanted to do something. Do it. Not only that, if he forgets that "I wanted the fish body, now how I have got it?" No, he forgets that he wanted it. So God reminds him that "You wanted this body; you have got this body." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). So God is very kind in all circumstances. Now we proposing to enjoy this material world under different situations, and God is helping us. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). You want to wander within this material world. That is your proposal. So, in order to enjoy this material world, you require different types of body. Just like they are trying to go to the moon planet. It requires a different body. So yānti deva-vratā devān: (BG 9.25) this life, you aspire of going to the moon planet; next life, automatically you will go there. Why you are trying unnecessarily to go to the moon planet by sputnik? You'll go there. You just always think of the moon and you'll go to the moon. It is simple process. And by this way, you cannot go. Now, exactly in the same way that you get the body of a fish and you very easily, whole day and night, for so many years, you jump over in the sea. So moon planet is one of the heavenly planets. There is process how to go to moon planet. In the Bhāgavata it is stated. Those who are karma-kāṇḍīya, very, discharging the Vedic ritualistic ceremony, karma-kāṇḍa, they can go to the moon planet or sun planet. There are millions and trillions of planets they can go. Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25). The same thing. Suppose if you want to go to India, you prepare yourself, take the visa, the permit, the passport and necessary money and permission, so many things. You go there. Yes.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Sarva-gataḥ is another, sarva-ga, the word is used. Sarva-ga means he can go anywhere he likes. He can go anywhere. Such freedom is there. That is confirmed in another verse. Yānti deva-vratā devān: you can go to the deva-loka. The moon planet is the beginning of the heavenly planets. You can go there. You simply prepare yourself.

yānti deva-vratā devān

pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ

bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā

yānti mad-yājino 'pi mām

(BG 9.25)

"And if one tries to go back to Me, back to home, back to, he can also go there." The intelligence is there that if, by preparing myself, I can go to God, why shall I endeavor to go to this moon, to the sun, to the hell, to the this or that? For everything, I'll have to prepare; so why not prepare myself to go back to home, back to Godhead? That is intelligence. Wherever you want to go, you have to prepare yourself, you have to make some endeavor. So why not make little endeavor for going back to home, back to Godhead? Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). And if once you go to God, then you haven't got to come back again to accept this material body. So why not endeavor for this? This is intelligence. What is the benefit if I go to the moon planet? Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). Even if you go to the highest planet, Brahmaloka, you'll have to come back again. So why you should waste your time in this temporary thing? Go back to home, back to Godhead, where you'll get, awaken your eternal life, blissful life of knowledge. You go there. That is intelligence. If I have to endeavor, make preparation for going to the moon planet, so what is that moon planet? You can get duration of life, ten thousands of years. Just like we have got life here for one hundred years maximum, the moon planet, you can live there for ten thousands of years. But after that ten thousand years, you have to die. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). There is no excuse. So intelligent man, why he should endeavor for things which are temporary, maybe ten years or hundred years or ten thousand years? That is intelligence, that why should I try for temporary things? If there is possibility of my permanent life, blissful life, why not try? This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama. Is that not? Find out. Yad gatvā na nivartante.

Morning Walk -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: Devotees once told me you said that the demigods like this movement very much so that they're standing in line to take their birth in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They like to come here on this planet. Just like you Kṛṣṇa conscious men, you are very much enthusiastic to go to India. India has no material attraction, but why our men wanted to go to India in spite of so many difficulties? Similarly, in the higher planet, heavenly planet, they are so much engrossed with material happiness that there is no facility. But here there is facility, in this earth, Bhūrloka. Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). One who is too much attached to material convenience and everything, they have no opportunity for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break)

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you wrote that we don't have to be concerned that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will deliver the whole world, because it will fill up again. Even if we can bring everyone back to Godhead, it will just be finished up again with more conditioned souls.

Prabhupāda: That means there are so many conditioned souls, one after another, coming. And the conditioned souls are the few of the whole living entities. Just imagine what is the total! (laughs)

Room Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Why not? What is this nonsense? If all the stars can move, what is the earth? That is their nonsense. Only earth is populated, everywhere is vacant. (laughter) In the Bhāgavata it is said every planet is full of living entities. Jana-pūrṇa. Perhaps I have explained, in my recent.... jana-kīrṇa. Jana-kīrṇa means full of living entities.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Last chapter of the Seventh Canto.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And these rascals say there is no life in other.... Moon planet is accepted as the heavenly planet, and these rascals say "It is sand. And we have brought the sand." It is one of the heavenly planets.

Jayādvaita: Some scientists have started a project. They are beaming radio messages into space because they think perhaps there is someone intelligent there, and they will beam back something.

Prabhupāda: Their knowledge is "perhaps." It is nonsense. They have no definite knowledge. "Perhaps." Perhaps is not knowledge.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So that is not possible in this... Taking consideration of the time, circumstances, it is not possible. There are different kinds of karma-kāṇḍīya-yajña. It is expensive also and there is no expert brāhmaṇa to guide how to perform this yajña. So Kali-yuga, it is not possible to perform yajñas. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ (SB 12.3.52). In the Treta-yuga yajñas were possible. Dvāpare paricaryāyāṁ kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt, that in this age of Kali-yuga the real yajña is hari-kīrtana. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32). Therefore those who are intelligent, having good brain substance, they take to this yajña, saṅkīrtana-yajña. And practically we are experiencing, simply by saṅkīrtana-yajña, even the lowest person in the sinful activities, he is becoming purified. So karma-kāṇḍa is, to revive them in this age is not possible. Neither jñāna-kanda. That is also not possible. People are so fool and rascal that it is impossible. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said... He has condemned karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa. Even it is properly done. Karma-kāṇḍa, by performing ritualistic ceremonies of karma-kāṇḍa, you can go to the heavenly planet. But what is the benefit there? You can enjoy there materialistic way of life in higher standard. That's all. You can live for a very, very long duration of period. But that does not mean that you become immortal.

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Vipina: So many people that run their life that way, they realize that "This woman is not making me happy, she's making me work and I'm miserable and I don't like it," but they keep on.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore he's described as mad, bhora. Bhora means mad. Duniya sab bhoraho ke gare gare bhagini.(?)

Vipina: We're almost there, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: In the heavenly planets the woman is described that during summer they are very warm, the body is very warm, er, during summer the body is very cool of the woman, and during winter the body is very warm. That is the nature of the woman in the heavenly planets. And their breast is very, very tight and strongly built. And their youthfulness never diminishes. These are the description of the heavenly woman. Bhāgavata everything is there. Mohinī-mūrti began to play on the balls, and the description of the breast is there and, what is called this portion?

Hari-śauri: Armpit.

Prabhupāda: Armpit. Yes. So she was playing ball one hand and one hand a bunch of hair would become, immediately she was taking care. So with this beauty Lord Śiva become mad. As soon as one man sees the breast and this armpit of young woman, then he is finished. (laughs)

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: You can make, by arrangement, artificial, cross-breeding.

Hari-śauri: But that cannot be counted as one of the 8,400,000 forms. I was thinking last night when we were coming down this road that it's very nice and smooth, but then I thought you were saying the other morning that in the heavenly planets they are made from coral and so many different things. Here we're using tarmac.

Prabhupāda: The more you go higher planetary system, the standard of living is many, many thousand times better than this. Many, many thousand times.

Rūpānuga: We can't even imagine it now.

Hari-śauri: What to speak of the spiritual world.

Prabhupāda: Just suppose here are stones, there are pearls. You cannot imagine.

Hari-śauri: Lying on the roadside. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...Western scientists, philosophers, they are all Dr. Frogs. They simply calculating three feet water, that's all. As soon as you speak to them about Atlantic Ocean, they say, "Oh, it is impossible." Froggish brain. (break) ...word has come, kūpa-māṇḍūkya-nyāya, the frog in the well.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: On this planet we have certain elements, like iron, water, or sand. Could there be other elements on other planets, new elements?

Prabhupāda: No. No.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Same elements.

Prabhupāda: More or less. Just like in the heavenly planets it is said that the roads are built with pearls. So there is more pearl. Here is also. The pearl quantity is there. Therefore they pave on the road.

Hari-śauri: You told us, in Hawaii, they had emeralds as big as huge boulders.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Hari-śauri: Yes, big rocks, like this, when we were walking in Hawaii.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: And the beaches are made of gems.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so what is the difficulty? This is also stone; that is also stone. That is valuable stone, that's all-valuable in your eye.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Gurudāsa: You once said there is a gross and subtle part of the moon planet. Is that so? No.

Prabhupāda: No.

Gurudāsa: You said one who had qualification could get to the actual moon planet.

Prabhupāda: Moon is one. There are not so many moons. Moon is one. You can go to the moon. By ritualistic ceremony you can get there ten thousands of years life and enjoy. That is the heavenly planet.

Gurudāsa: So they have not at all gone there.

Prabhupāda: All false propaganda.

Hari-śauri: I think we should go back now, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: Planet is full of life. Jana-(indistinct). All kinds of animals are there.

Jagadīśa: Even in the Arizona desert there are different kinds of life.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There must be. (break) ...use of going to the Mars planet. What is their idea?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They constantly want to discover more and more so that they can claim that they are lords.

Prabhupāda: But what is that discovery?

Rādhāvallabha: Scientific knowledge.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, everything is devotional. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam (SB 7.5.23), there are varieties. We are not Māyāvādī, impersonalists, finished, all business. It is not like that. So whatever business is going on in our movement, everything should be taught according to the capacity, boys or girls, it doesn't matter. Some department is suitable for the boys, some department are suitable for the girls. In this way, they should be trained up. But everyone should be trained up to give service. That is Gurukula. And brahmacārī, this sex impulse should be controlled. That ruins the whole character. Our big, big sannyāsīs are becoming victimized. So that is the danger. Woman is good, man is good; when they combine together, bad. This is the material world. Both of them are good, but when they combine together, they are bad. This is material world. In the spiritual world, there is no such combination of sense gratification. Therefore it is always good. Everyone is part and parcel of God. So they are good. In the spiritual world, they combine together, it becomes bad, in the material world. In the spiritual world there is no such combination of sense gratification. Therefore they are always good. So you have to train like that. In the spiritual world there are very, very beautiful women, thousand, thousands times. Here, in the heavenly planets, they are calculated the best perfectional body of the woman. But in the spiritual world, still further. But there is no attraction of sex. They are working together, serving together, everything. But the sex attraction, there is no. They are elevated so much in the service of the Lord.... Sex attraction is a kind of pleasure. So there are different types of pleasure. Here, if somebody, good foodstuff is there, and.... That is also another sense pleasure, and by the time one beautiful woman is canvassing, "Now, come and let us enjoy," he will give up this good food. He'll go for sex. Because he will think this is better than that. So one pleasure is rejected if one is engaged in better pleasure. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). So in the spiritual world the service of the Lord is so pleasing, that they can neglect this sex pleasure. That is spiritual world. They have no attachment for sex pleasure. Yadāvadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravinde nava-nava-rasa-dhāmānudyata bata nārī-saṅgame bhavati mukha-vikāraḥ suṣṭu. When one spits on the sex pleasure, that means he is elevated in spiritual life. So in the material world that is not possible. But by training, by knowledge, one can be elevated. That is Gurukula. So these are the general principles. Now arrange.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So ritualistic ceremonies, Vedic ritualistic ceremonies. Everywhere there are some ritualistic ceremony. So when you go above this... Just like Kṛṣṇa says in another place, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo. By performing the Vedic ritualistic ceremony, the ultimate goal is to understand Kṛṣṇa. So if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you may not perform this ritualistic ceremony. Because you have come to the objective. Not before that. That is sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Vedic ritualistic ceremony is that if you perform this yajña, then you go to the heavenly planet and there you'll get so long life, ten thousands of years, you get nice woman, and so on, so on. People are after that, karma-kāṇḍa. So this karma-kāṇḍa is required so long one is unaware of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When one understands this karma-kāṇḍa elevation is not the aim of our life, our real aim of life how to go back home, back to Godhead, then these things are not required. Just like we have no ritualistic ceremony, we have simply devotional service. We have no ritualistic ceremony. There are so many things ritualistic. And we are performing only this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, mahā-mantra. Therefore the smārta brāhmaṇas, they misunderstand. They do not admit that they have become elevated. The Jagannātha temple does not allow. But when one becomes a pure Vaiṣṇava, then tepus tapas te juhuvuḥ sasnur āryā (SB 3.33.7). He has performed all the ritualistic devotion. There are many statements in the śāstras, that when you come to the devotional platform, you haven't go to perform these ritualistic ceremonies. Because the end of ritualistic ceremony, you have come to the point. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Dharmaḥ projjhita kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). Kaitava means cheating. Cheating type of dharma is rejected here. This karma-kāṇḍa, by performing some ritualistic ceremony you may go to a heavenly planet, but what benefit you will have? That one has to understand. You can enjoy there materialistic, highest type of materialistic civilization means eating, sleeping, mating. These things you can get, but you have to come back again. Kṣine punye martya-lokaṁ viśanti (BG 9.21). So what benefit there is? No benefit. Just like in British period, some Englishman was made viceroy of India. Then after five years they sent to London, again with his bag, marketing in the street. This has been seen practically. Lord such-and-such, he's traveling in a third-class compartment with a bag for marketing. But so long he was viceroy, oh, so much honor, so much prestige. So where is that prestige now? These ritualistic ceremonies are like that. For more years you become viceroy, and then again fall down. That is your Nixon. What is the position of Nixon now? He is ordinary man. That's all.

Morning Walk -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: To pass the examination, one must follow a strict, austere life.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa, beginning tapasya, austerity. Brahmacarya, celibacy. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena damena (SB 6.1.13), controlling the senses, controlling the mind. Tyāgena, by renunciation. Satya-śaucābhyām, by following truthfulness and cleanliness. Yamena niyamena vā, by practicing yoga, yama-niyama. These are the different items of being qualified. But all these things can be done by one stroke, kevalayā bhaktyā, by engaging oneself in devotion, vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ.

kecit kevalayā bhaktyā

vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ

aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena

nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ

(SB 6.1.15)

One becomes qualified by one stroke of bhakti to Vāsudeva. Just like the sunrise immediately dissipates the fog. Aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. In the Kali-yuga, this one item of bhakti can make one perfectly fit candidate to pass the examination. Aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. What is this nonsense life? There is no tapasya, no spiritual culture, simply like cats and dogs. Last night I was reading. Vāmanadeva created a planet, Sutala, in which Viśvakarmā was ordered to construct big, big houses, palaces, better than in the heavenly planet. And these rascals are going and seeing simply rocks and sand. And what about these palaces and...?

Morning Walk -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: To take advantage for sense gratification. Why he wants to come here? He requested similarly Bhagavān.

Hari-śauri: He wanted to go to Detroit.

Prabhupāda: Detroit, everyone is trying to take some advantage.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Everybody thinks America is everything. A heavenly planet.

Prabhupāda: Yes, for India it is heavenly planet, certainly.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: I'm sure there is always a lot of people who gather around American devotees.

Prabhupāda: To exploit.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They want money, they want this, they want benefit, some sort of, this I can see.

Prabhupāda: What is the price of this bread?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Five rials, it's about half a rupee.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. For a devotee, this kaivalya-sukha of the Māyāvādī, impersonalist...

Dr. Patel: Just like naraka.

Prabhupāda: Is the hell for them. What is this nonsense? Who will understand this? Huh? Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. And heaven, tridaśa-pūrākāśa-puṣpāyate. Heavenly planets, they are will of the wisp. Phantasmagoria. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tridaśa-pūrākāśa-puṣpāyate durdāntendriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī. Karmī, jñānī... Jñānī wants kaivalya and karmī wants heavenly happiness. And the yogi, yogi wants to control the senses. So he says that "Yes, we know the senses are very powerful." Durdāntendriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī. Indriya, it is just like snake. If you play with a snake you do not know at any moment death is there by biting. So although these indriyas are like snakes, kāla-sarpa, venomous serpent, but protkhāta-daṁṣṭrāyate. We have... What is called? Extricated?

Girirāja: Extracted

Prabhupāda: Extracted the fangs. The fangs if they are taken away, it may do like useless. Similarly, for a devotee the indriyas are dangerous. But because devotee, hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa. they have engaged their indriyas in the service of the Lord, the fangs are taken out. Durdāntendriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī protkhāta-daṁṣṭrāyate viśvaṁ pūrṇa-sukhāyate. The whole universe for them is very happy. Everyone is it is very unhappy. For them it is very happy. Because he does not see anything which is not suitable for Kṛṣṇa's service. Viśvaṁ pūrṇa-sukhāyate. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tridaśa-pūrākāśa-puṣpāyate durdānta indriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī protkhāta-daṁṣṭrāyate viśvaṁ pūrṇa-sukhāyate vidhi-mahendrādiś ca kīṭāyate(Caitanya-candrāmṛta 5). And the post of vidhi, means Brahmā and Mahendra... What is this? Kīṭāyate.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. What he will do, more payment? (?) Then he will kill. This sex life in this material world is so strong, even in the heavenly planets. Big, big ṛṣis. Sex life with animals also there is... Sex life is so strong. Man cohabiting with animal. It makes blind. Vyāsadeva made one of her (his) students pregnant, what to speak of ourselves. Vyāsadeva was born, Satyavatī. She was low class. Although she was born by a king, but her mother was a low-class fisherwoman. And the fisherman raised her as daughter. And Parāśara Muni became attracted. And Vyāsadeva was born. Sex affairs, just see, in the highest circle. Bṛhaspati, the spiritual master of the devatās, he became so much mad for his brother's wife who was pregnant, and forcibly they had sex. Just see. These are examples. Brahmā became attracted with his daughter. Lord Śiva became attracted with the beauty of Mohinī-mūrti, even in the presence of his wife. So this sex life can be controlled only by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise there is no... The Bhāgavata has discussed all this because in this material world there is no escape unless we become Kṛṣṇa conscious, from the sex impulse. It is not possible. Yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa... When one is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he'll reject all this nonsense: "What is this?" Bhavati mukha-vikāraḥ suṣṭhu. He'll spite (spit): "Eh! Get out. Is that enjoyment?" It is possible for a Kṛṣṇa conscious... No other can do it. And that is the bondage. He'll have to work hard for maintaining sex issues. And so long you are bound up by the karmas, you have to accept another body and then continue. Who knows this how we are bound up and conditioned? If you talk in the modern society they will laugh: "What nonsense this man is... 'By sex life one becomes conditioned.' " They cannot understand. Hare Kṛṣṇa... (japa) This should be strictly outlawed, no more sannyāsīs. And those sannyāsīs who have fallen, you get them married, live like a... No more this showbottle, cheating. It is very ludicrous. Even there is a promise that "We shall not fall down again," that is also not believable. What is the use? Better go and speak philosophy in your gṛhastha dress, not this dress, but you have nice coat, pants, gentleman. Who says no? I never said. Rather I shall be glad to see that up-to-date gentlemen with tilaka and śikhā are speaking. That is very prestigious everywhere. Why this false dress? What is the wrong to become gṛhastha? I was gṛhastha, pākā caliber gṛhastha. My Guru Mahārāja was brahmacārī, This is ever... Just see his character. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was gṛhastha, but when He took sannyāsa: "Oh, I am now..." For sober person. That is wanted. That is ideal. He married twice. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura married twice. Caitanya Mahāprabhu married twice. What is the wrong there? One has to become pure devotee, that's all.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Indian (1): And that man himself accepts all these things...

Prabhupāda: That is going on...

Indian (1): ...through his karma.

Prabhupāda: ...that they are karmīs, they are working to go to the heavenly planet. And what he'll do? What he will benefit?

Indian (1): Ārto jijñāsur arthārthī jñānī ca bharatarṣabha. In lakhs and lakhs, people there are one..., it is very difficult to find a jñānī.

Prabhupāda: No, jñānī... One can become jñānī in a moment, provided he wants. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. So if one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, he's jñānavān. Otherwise he's a rascal. So if you don't teach how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then he remains a rascal. That's all.

Indian (1): It is our duty to teach, to educate the people.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is education, that "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Otherwise he's not education.

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Then you have to say that you have no idea what is God. Then they will be offended. Better not, that not to say. (laughs) We know it, that's all.

Pṛthu-putra: Just introduce it as it is. Just introduce as it is.

Prabhupāda: Let us with logic, philosophy, talk. There is no conception of God throughout the whole world. Vague idea.

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. Because in the description of Koran, what they think about spiritual world is like heavenly planets. It's all the opposite of what they experience now. Now they are living in a desert, so they think when we are going to get liberation we'll be full of water and beautiful women giving you honey. You don't have to work. This is their... This is described in Koran.

Prabhupāda: No, that is heaven.

Pṛthu-putra: Yes, it's heaven.

Prabhupāda: But do they think that there is eternal life?

Pṛthu-putra: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Jayapatākā: The electric cable from the generator, they're putting clamps on the building.

Prabhupāda: Just try to understand how transmigration, that tyaktvā deham. Tathā dehāntara. How dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13) is... He has proposed or desired, "If I could have possessed such body... If I could have gone in heavenly planets... If I could have become tiger..." In this way he's desiring. Hañā māyāra dāsa kari' nānā abhilāṣa. That's all right. Let him work. Otherwise...

Jayapatākā: I can have him do (indistinct), and other system.

Prabhupāda: So māyā means simply you are desiring one after another, one after another, one after another, one after another. Hm? Who will find out this verse? Hañā māyāra dāsa kari' nānā abhilāṣa. Where it is?

Jayapatākā: A song?

Prabhupāda: Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So we're desiring one after, one after, one after, one after... The last desire... Because if you become addicted to certain type of desire, that is prominent at the time of death. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6), sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ. So māyā's machine is immediately prepared. That mind—manaḥ buddhiḥ ahaṅkāra. Subtle. You cannot see. You see the body is burned, finished. Rascal, that is not finished. Na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). It is not finished. There is subtle body. The subtle body carries. The example is just like flavor of rose garden carries, similarly, the desire is carried, and he requires a machine to ride on, particular. So there are eighty-four million machines, and he's, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), by the supervision of māyā, carried to this mother's womb. The soul is injected through the semina of the father, and he enters the womb of the mother, and mother gives the ingredients, develops his body, and as soon as it is complete, comes out. Where is the difficulty to understand this transmigration of the soul? These rascals have no brain. That verse I have explained this morning.