In the Viṣṇu-dharmottara there is a statement about touching the lotus feet of the Lord. It is said, "Only a person who is initiated as a Vaiṣṇava and is executing devotional service in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has the right to touch the body of the Deity." In India there was agitation during Gandhi's political movement because the lowborn classes of men like street-sweepers and caṇḍālas are prohibited, according to the Vedic system, from entering the temple. Due to their unclean habits they are prohibited, but at the same time they are given other facilities so they may be elevated to the highest grade of devotional service by association with pure devotees. A man born in any family is not barred, but he must be cleansed. That cleansing process must be adopted. Gandhi wanted to make them clean simply by stamping them with a fictitious name, harijana ("children of God"), and so there was a great tug-of-war between the temple owners and Gandhi's followers.
Harijana
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta
CC Adi-lila
Mahatma Gandhi started the hari-jana movement to purify the untouchables, but he was a failure because he thought that one could become a hari-jana, a personal associate of the Lord, through some kind of material adjustment. That is not possible. Unless one fully realizes that he is not the body but is a spiritual soul, there is no question of his becoming a hari-jana. Those who do not follow in the footsteps of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His disciplic succession cannot distinguish between matter and spirit, and therefore all their ideas are but a mixed-up hodgepodge of problems. They are virtually lost in the bewildering network of Māyādevī.
Other Books by Srila Prabhupada
Nectar of Devotion
Renunciation Through Wisdom
Lord Kṛṣṇa is the supreme enjoyer of all sacrifices. Thus He accepts the fruits of everyone's labor, and by so doing He crowns all His devotees' endeavors with glowing success. Such is the transcendental potency possessed by the omnipotent Lord. We must pay careful heed, however, never to allow the desire for self-aggrandizement or sense gratification to surreptitiously slip into our consciousness while we are performing devotional service. We should simply follow in the footsteps of the previous spiritual masters. In the Lord's presence, everyone is equal. Therefore, whoever serves the Lord with unwavering single-mindedness is listed among His close associates. They are truly "hari-janas," Lord Hari's own men. To rubber-stamp as a hari-jana a person who does not possess the prerequisite—devotional service—is a farce and an onerous hindrance on the path of devotional surrender.
Message of Godhead
It is generally experienced that workers in big mills and factories are addicted to many abominable habits, and thus they gradually glide down to the lowest status to which a human being can descend. But if they are graciously offered the advantage of partaking of the remnants of foodstuffs offered to Viṣṇu, gradually they will develop a transcendental sense of spirituality and rise to the same status as that of spiritually advanced personalities. However, these people cannot rise to that exalted position of "Harijans" simply by being rubber-stamped as such. If they are influenced by a desire other than the transcendental service of Viṣṇu, every effort to raise them up from their degraded position will result in disaster and disturbance of the peace and tranquillity of the social order. Leaders who incite such downtrodden laborers uselessly—simply for the sake of temporary gain—can never do the laborers any good. Nor can the leaders themselves benefit by such ill-conceived actions. On the contrary, through such material activities both the laborers and the capitalists inevitably fall into unwholesome quarreling and so bring on great disturbance of the social order. The problem can be solved only by a determined program of karma-yoga. If karma-yoga, or work with transcendental results, is systematically performed, we shall transcend and more than fulfill all fragmented endeavors—whether by the socialists toward equality, by the Bolsheviks toward a grand social order of fraternity, or by the laborites toward a mundane heaven wherein laborers surpass capitalists in the acquisition of wealth.
Lectures
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
So a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa is also addressed Bhagavān. Pure devotee. Not that a magician. A pure devotee. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). Bhagavān bādarāyaṇiḥ adhyagān mahād ākhyānam. This is mahād ākhyānam. It is not ordinary ākhyānam. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Amalaṁ purāṇam. He was liberated person, but being to hear about Kṛṣṇa more and more, this is not material; this is spiritual. Mahad ākhyānaṁ nityaṁ viṣṇu-jana-priyaḥ. Nityam. Bhāgavata is not for a saptāha. Bhāgavata is meant for nityam. Nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā. Naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā (SB 1.2.18). Not that one is completely free from the modes of material nature, but prāyeṣu: almost finished. Naṣṭa-prāyeṣu abhadreṣu. Then he becomes interested. Nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā. Or by serving Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam regularly, nityam. As it is said, nityaṁ viṣṇu-jana-priyaḥ. Viṣṇu-jana and hari-jana. Hari-jana does not mean cāmāra and bangi. Hari-jana means... Cāmāras and bangis can be elevated to hari-jana but not by rubber-stamp, "Viṣṇu-jana." Viṣṇu-jana and hari-jana, the same thing. So viṣṇu-jana-priyaḥ. Those who are viṣṇu-jana, their most favorable subject matter of understanding is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam.
The same thing is recommended here, that mahat-sevām. If you want the purpose of life and if you want to execute tapasya, if you want all these things, then you should approach a mahātmā, not durātmā. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). That is mahātmā. Mahātmā is not made by stamping that "You are a mahātmā," "You are a harijana." It is not like that. Mahātmā is different person. Mahātmā means whose ātmā is very broad—broader ātmā, not crippled. All are durātmā. Everyone is thinking, "I am this Indian," "I am American," "I am this," "I am that." But what mahātmā thinking? He's thinking, "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa. I am not servant of these petty things. I am servant of Kṛṣṇa, Parabrahman." Gopī-bhartur pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsa. That is mahat. "I am a servant of Kṛṣṇa's servant, servant, servants, hundred times servant." The lower my position is servant, then I am great mahātmā. Ordinarily they think mahātmā, that "I am on the top, on the topmost platform." That is not mahātmā. This is our Caitanya philosophy.
If the United Nation immediately accepts that this whole planet is the property of God and we are simply sons of God, not only human being but also the animals, the trees, the plants... There are 8,400,000 different forms of living entities, and Kṛṣṇa claims, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: (BG 14.4) "I am the seed-giving father." And we, all living entities, we are sons of the supreme proprietor. Let us enjoy the father's property without encroaching upon other's share. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam.
But they will not accept it. They will artificially create some assembly of rogues and thief and pass resolution for fifty years but no peace. They want to be united, but flags are increasing daily. We have seen in New York the flags are increasing. Actually, during Mahārāja Parīkṣit's time there was one flag only, and people were controlled by the Pāṇḍava kings all over the world, and they were peaceful. During the battle of Kurukṣetra, it was a family fight, so all the people of the world, they joined this side or that side. The Bhāratavarṣa means under the name of Bharata Mahārāja, who is mahānubhāvaḥ... He is not ordinary person. Bharataṁ parama-bhāgavatam bhagavaj-jana-parāyaṇam. Bhagavaj-jana. He is the follower of devotees, bhagavaj-jana. Bhagavaj-jana and hari-jana, the same thing. Hari means Bhagavān, and here it is stated, bhagavaj-jana, and hari-jana, the same thing. But nowadays hari-jana means if somebody comes and presents himself as hari-jana, immediately we understand he must be a chamar or bhangi.
So this is the position. Hari-jana means persons like Nārada, Vyāsa, Asita, like that, the personal servant of Kṛṣṇa. By rubber-stamp—"hari-jana..." In Bengali it is said, kana chela nama padma locana (?): "One son is blind, and the father has given the name 'lotus-eyed.' " So that you can do out of affection. A blind child you can call "lotus-eyed," that is your business. But lotus-eyed means something else. Very beautiful eyes, then you can say "lotus-eyed." So this is going on. I want some political aims, so I stamp the chamars and bhangis as hari-jana. That's all. That you can call for your political purpose. But hari-jana does not mean that. Here it is, a example of hari-jana, parama bhāgavatan. Parama bhāgavata means the highest stage of devotees. Kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, madhyama-adhikārī, and then uttama-adhikārī. He is parama-bhāgavata. He has no enemy. Kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, he worships the Deity, but he does not know how to do good to others, neither he knows who is devotee. In the kaniṣṭha-adhikara, in the lower stage of devotional service, one cannot distinguish. But he should be engaged fully in Deity worship so that gradually he will develop his mahā-bhāgavata stage. And madhyama-adhikārī means he knows how to make others hari-jana, or devotee.
- īśvare tad-adhīneṣu
- bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca
- prema-maitrī-kṛpa upekṣā
- yaḥ karoti sa madhyamaḥ
He not only worships the Deity wholeheartedly... That is prema. Īśvare prema. But beyond that, tad adhīneṣu—he knows how to respect the devotees, tad adhīneṣu, īśvara adhīneṣu. That means other devotees. Then he becomes madhyama-adhikārī. If he simply takes care of the Deity worship and if he does not offer respectful behavior to another devotee, he is kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. He is in the lower stage. So īśvare tad adhīneṣu. He must see that "Here is a devotee." He must have power to see that "Here is a devotee."
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
So if follow that policy that one who is born in India as brāhmaṇa, except him, nobody can become brāhmaṇa, then this Vedic civilization will be, in due course of time, lost. We should be very careful. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is spreading Vedic culture outside India. And they are welcoming it, those who are intelligent, they are welcoming it. They are accepting it. We should encourage them. Instead of discouraging this movement, we should encourage, so that the whole world can be united on the platform of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. If we simply hate low-grade families, low-grade men, that will not solve the problem. Just like when there was political movement in India, the Britishers, they presented so many problems. Just like the untouchables, the Muhammadans, and so many things. The Britishers they put forward these problems (because) they were not willing to separate the British rule. Only some high class, higher section of the Hindus, they are trying to separate the British rule. At that time, Gandhi stamped the camaras (?) and the bhaṅgis as harijana. But means as soon as there was the word "harijana," immediately a person would be considered coming from the camaras and the bhaṅgis. But such exalted title, harijana, is offered to personalities like Nārada, Brahma, those who are actually associates with Hari. But according to śāstra, there is no objection to accept these camaras and the bhaṅgis or any low-grade family to make him harijana, provided he accepts the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa in a regular way, by the Vaiṣṇava vidhāna. Just (as) recommended by the Gosvāmīs, Sanātana Gosvāmī: tathā dīkṣā-vidhānena dvijatvaṁ jāyate nṛṇām. Dīkṣā-vidhānena, by the proper initiative process, one can become dvija, twice-born.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
There are ten kinds of saṁskāras, reformation. And how much careful this Vedic civilization is, that a child will be born and he is taken care of since the day of the, I mean to say, joining, conjugation of the father and mother. Garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. How much they were expecting that a good son will come, and he will be so good that the society will be happy, the country will be happy, the world will be happy. Never they prescribed unwanted children like cats and dogs. No. So therefore there was garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. Before the father and mother conjugate there is ceremony, garbhādhāna, for the higher caste. The higher caste were made not artificially. They had to follow nine great principles, then they are higher caste, not by rubber stamp, just like Gandhi wanted to do, taking the banghis, the sweepers, and rubber-stamping "harijana." No. This is a process. Everyone is open to become a harijana, but not by rubber stamp but by training. That training is required. People are avoiding the training and simply speculating in the mind, foolishness. How the world can improve? There must be training. Without training, simply by mental speculation, one can make any... Manasā mathurāṁ gacchasi. Oh, you have to work. If you want to go California, you have to go there. Simply I am thinking, "I am going to California, California," will that...? No.
Festival Lectures
There was agitation in India, perhaps you know, that Gandhi stamped some persons as Harijana. Harijana. They were coming from the bhaṅgīs. Bhaṅgīs means sweepers or the cleaners of the toilet room. So Gandhi accepted them. The government was creating, British government was creating faction between high caste, low caste. So Gandhi thought that, "I shall make these bhaṅgīs and camars as Harijana, as great devotees." But simply by rubberstamping, how one can become devotee? That is not possible. Without going the pāñcarātrikī-vidhī, they remain the same unclean drunkard and the all nonsense habits. And simply by stamping rubberstamping, Harijana? No. Here what we are doing, it is not rubberstamping. It is actually training according to the pāñcarātrikī-vidhī. We are training our boys to become brāhmaṇas, to refrain from four kinds of sinful activities, to take bath, to take this, take that. And above all, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Ceto-darpaṇa-marjanam (CC Antya 20.12), cleansing of all sinful activities. So in this way Harijana can be made, but not that you pick up somebody nonsense and rubberstamp this "Harijana." No. There must be process.
There is no hindrance for anyone to become Harijana. Harijana means God's person or devotee. Hari means God, Kṛṣṇa, and jana means His person. Just like we have got here government servant, special, or ordinary person. So Harijana means the servants of the Supreme Lord. So that is not ordinary thing. There is no harm to create Harijana by regular process, but you cannot make Harijana simply by stamping. Bhagavad-gītā says, equal opportunity for everyone. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśrityā ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Low-class born birth is understood due to sinful activities. Low-class birth, animal birth. Sinful activities. But Kṛṣṇa says, pāpa-yonayaḥ, born in sinful families, never mind. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśrityā... If he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious by bona fide process, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśrityā. Vyapāśrityā means bona fide process. Not an imitation, bona fide. And bona fide means as they are depicted, as they are described, as they are enjoined in the authorized śāstra like śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-pañca... (Brs. 1.2.101). Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśrityā ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Never mind in whatever family one is born, sinful family, never mind. Striyaḥ śūdrās tathā vaiśyaḥ, including woman and śūdras and vaiśyas, they are considered as less intelligent. They are considered as less intelligent. Therefore, according to Vedic system, a boy born in a brāhmaṇa family, he is allowed all the saṁskāras, reformatory, purificatory process, but the girl is not. Why? Now, because a girl has to follow her husband. So if her husband is brāhmaṇa, automatically she becomes brāhmaṇa. There is no need of separate reformation. And by chance she may be married with a person who is not a brāhmaṇa, then what is the use of making her a brāhmaṇa? That is the general method. So therefore the, even born in a brāhmaṇa family, a woman is taken as woman, not as brāhmaṇa. But Kṛṣṇa says, "Never mind. Even if she is woman, even she is śūdra, even she is vaiśya, or any other, I mean to say, family born in, never mind." Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśrityā (BG 9.32), if anyone is bona fidely made Kṛṣṇa conscious, te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim, so his way is open to the path of Vaikuṇṭha, parāṁ gatim. Kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyā bhaktā rājarṣayas tathā (BG 9.33).
Conversations and Morning Walks
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: But generally, unless they are very highly elevated... (break) ...to elevate them, harijanas.
Devotee (1): Harijanas.
Prabhupāda: But he did not know how to make them harijana. He was politically trying.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Acyutānanda: So many born śūdras are śūdras, many times.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Acyutānanda: But artificially the government process is to give benefits and prestige to the harijanas without being qual...
Prabhupāda: Without training.
Acyutānanda: Training.
Prabhupāda: Without making him harijana...
Acyutānanda: A harijana may become a brāhmaṇa, but sometimes a harijana is a scheduled caste.
Prabhupāda: Harijana means methara. As soon as he comes, if he says, "I am harijana" then immediately you understand that he is a sweeper.
Acyutānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This is the position.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Another part of this same question: if the harijanas, who constitute a sizable population amongst the Hindus, are made to feel that their very religion...
Prabhupāda: These are all artificial. The harijana word was used by Gandhi unnecessarily for a class of men who are not fit for the position. Harijana means "the men of Hari." Just like Nārada. Nārada is called harijana. Great devotee is called harijana, "the persons related with Hari." But if you select some bhangis and camaras and keep them as he is and rubberstamp it, "Here is a harijana," what will be the effect? There is no harm to pick up a low class man and to elevate him to the position of harijana. There is no impediment. You can do. But if you keep him a low class man and if you stamp him harijana, then what will be benefit? Just like we are initiating selected men. "Are you ready to follow these rules and regulation? When he says, then "Come on. Become harijana." Not that "I'll keep myself in that same abominable condition of life and I shall become harijana." So this "harijana" word has come from Gandhi. He did not try to make him real harijana. He simply rubberstamped him. So what is the value of this harijana?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Next question: Swami Vivekananda...
Prabhupāda: Hm. (laughter)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He had given a positive suggestion that one of the best ways for the harijanas to command respect amongst all sections of...
Prabhupāda: Where Vivekananda was there when harijana word was manufactured by Gandhi? At that time Vivekananda was not there. So why he's putting Vivekananda?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Vivekananda has already died when this harijana name...
Prabhupāda: Long, long ago. (laughter)
Hari-śauri: He's just using the word "harijana" in place of śūdra or what was formerly "untouchables."
Prabhupāda: He can use, but this "harijana" word was manufactured by Gandhi. Vivekananda died some time, 1900... I do not exactly remember. When Gandhi's movement was not started. Gandhi's movement was started in 1917. And long ago Vivekananda expired.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Anyway, his question is, "Swami Vivekananda has given a positive suggestion that one of the best ways for harijanas to command respect among all sections of people is to learn Sanskrit, the study of which is being neglected even by brāhmaṇas today. What incentives can be given to harijanas to learn Sanskrit, the repository of Indian culture and religion?"
Prabhupāda: That is another misgiving. They will never be able to learn Sanskrit, and neither it is possible that by learning Sanskrit they will be elevated. There are many Sanskrit scholars. So how they are elevated? They are rotting. It is not a good suggestion, this. If the harijana actually becomes harijana, then it will benefit. That training we can give. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that we can make a harijana, a so-called, I mean to say, camaras, bhangis... Now they understand harijana means he must be a camara or bhangi. But that is not the actual... harijana means devotee, "The man of Hari." So in spite of their illiteracy in Sanskrit language, we can make him harijana, actually. So why do you take the trouble of learning Sanskrit? Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yoni means low-grade birth. So anyone. That includes the camaras, bhangis, they can be purified if they take to the shelter of Kṛṣṇa. Because Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. The best thing is to induce them to come to Kṛṣṇa. Then they will be purified. And the simple method is recommended by Kṛṣṇa Himself and Caitanya Mahāprabhu, His incarnation: this kīrtana. Engage them in saṅkīrtana movement which is being pushed by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and they will be purified. They don't require to learn Sanskrit even. As he, it is. Let them chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and they will be purified. And if you want to teach them Sanskrit, it will take three thousand years. (laughter) That is impossible.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It is a fact though that the repository of Indian culture and religion is Sanskrit. So are you saying then that the harijanas or these class of people...
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is Sanskrit, but the Vedic mantras are received not by learning Sanskrit, but by hearing from the authorized person. Therefore it is called śruti. It is in Sanskrit because there was no other language. Sanskrit was the only language. So now they're being translated into English. So it doesn't matter whether it is in Sanskrit or English, one has to learn it by hearing from the proper person. That is wanted.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: His question here, Śrīla Prabhupāda, especially is that the harijanas are very downtrodden...
Prabhupāda: Downtrodden, you keep them downtro dden. You manufacture wine and let them drink, and he will be uplifted. One side, (chuckles) you are manufacturing wine and advertising, "Come on, take here," and you remain, become harijana. How it is possible? You must stop all this nonsense, the slaughterhouse, the liquor shop or the breweries or the prostitute quarter. You stop this. But that cannot be also stopped. Anyone who wants to become harijana, he can become in spite of all these things. He can defend himself.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So should there be some effort?
Prabhupāda: What is that effort? Teach them Sanskrit?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, to make the harijanas respectable.
Prabhupāda: Anyone can respectable. That is already described. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya (BG 9.32). Kirāta-hūṇāndra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ. Everyone can be, śudhyanti, they can be purified. But if you take the real process, this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness process. Otherwise, simply by learning Sanskrit, what will be able...?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The ācārya must sanction for the particular time and place.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are following the footprints of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. It is not whimsical. You have to follow the authority in all circumstances. You cannot avoid. That is illegal. It will have no power. Just like all of a sudden you make a low class man a harijana. It will not stay. But you can make harijana any class of man provided you adopt the proper means.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I think one more question then would be appropriate because it kind of ties in which this last question. "Number seven: Hinduism has always renewed or revitalized itself according to the need of the times. In today's context, are any correctives called for, and if so, who will bring them about and how can they be brought about and made acceptable to all the masses?
Prabhupāda: First of all, who will take it? Kṛṣṇa has given already according to the time, He has summarized the whole Vedic scripture in the Bhagavad-gītā, but who is taking it? And Caitanya Mahāprabhu and all the ācāryas, they have explained how to accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness or Kṛṣṇa's instruction. So first thing you must be ready to take the presentation according to the time and circumstances. Then everything will be all right. If you manufacture your own way of life, if you do not take it from the authority, then it will be failure. Just like this harijana. Harijana is very good idea, make everyone harijana. But harijana is being picked up from the lowest class of men, the bhangis and camaras. That is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, papa-yoni. But how this pāpa-yoni can be purified? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya. By accepting Kṛṣṇa as everything, that means full surrender. Then he can be, even if he's pāpa-yoni, he can be rectified. But if there is no question of surrendering to Kṛṣṇa and if you rubberstamp a low class man that he has become harijana, how it will be effective? The condition is there, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya. Find out this verse.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna:
- māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya
- ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ
- striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās
- te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim
- (BG 9.32)
"O son of Pṛthā, those who take shelter in Me, though they be of lower birth, women, vaiśyas, as well as śūdras, can approach the supreme destination."
Prabhupāda: Yes. The condition is that "those who take shelter unto Me." Now, Mahatma Gandhi manufactured the harijana, but where there is the teaching that "You take shelter of Kṛṣṇa?" So how this harijana will be effective? The condition is there, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya (BG 9.32).
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "It is clearly declared here by the Supreme Lord that in devotional service there is no distinction between the lower or higher clases of people. In the material conception of life there are such divisions, but for a person engaged in transcendental devotional service to the Lord there are not. Everyone is eligible for the supreme destination. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is stated that even the lowest, who are called caṇḍālas, dog-eaters, can be elevated by association with a pure devotee. Therefore devotional service and guidance of a pure devotee are so strong that there's no discrimination between the lower and higher classes of men. Anyone can take to it. The most simple man, taking center of the pure devotee, can be purified by proper guidance."
Prabhupāda: Yes. The guidance means how to take him to Kṛṣṇa's shelter. Then he will be all right. The guidance is wrong, no question of Kṛṣṇa, and he, simply by rubberstamping, "Here is a harijana," how it will be effective? Therefore it is failure. He remains the same drunkard, same meat-eater, and he becomes harijana. How it is possible? The guidance required. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 9.59). He must be guided.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This next question is very closely related to the last question. Question twenty. "What is your view regarding proselytization or preaching? If you are..."
Prabhupāda: It is not proselytization. Proselytization has no meaning. To bring one to the real understanding. Kṛṣṇa says that mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). All living entities are His part and parcel. He claims, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). In all forms of life, as many living entities are there, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ, I am the seed-giving father. So the natural position is that every living entity, not only human being, but also animals, plants, everyone... So why not Indian, American, or Czechoslavakian, everyone is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa? So it not the process of proselytizing to convince the idea. It is actually bringing them to their real position, that they're all part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. It is not artificial proselytization that "You are Christian, now you are Hindu." Or "You are Hindu, now you are Christian." "You are a sweeper, now you are harijana." It is not like that. It is actually bringing him to his own position, part and parcel of God. It is not... Proselytization will not stand. When one comes to the real understanding of his position, then that will continue. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that. Bringing one to the original position.
Prabhupāda: Every father loves his son. Therefore this is contradictory. He is blind, but he has called... (microphone rattling)
Indian: He has no locana.
Prabhupāda: And he has called Padma-locana. Similarly, this harijana movement is a farce because they remain the Cāmāra and Bhangis, and still they are called harijana. The same thing. No locana, but padma-locana. Everyone has got right. You can become the most advanced devotee. There is no hindrance. But they must be trained up as harijana. Not that artificially you simply rubberstamp harijana. Therefore that movement is failure. We have no objection to make anyone... Kṛṣṇa says māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yoni, lower class.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Bhakti-caru: Photo?
Prabhupāda: Which photograph is it?
Bhakti-caru: That Amritsar. The "One Hundred Million Harijanas Pick a New Messiaḥ."
Prabhupāda: Read that whole thing.
Bhakti-caru: "As the nation observes this week the death anniversary of Dr. Amritsar, it behooves our news research to face a challenge 'for the plight of this downtrodden community.' " (break) "The story of the vast quantity of harijana in this ancient and illustrious land is a miserable story of shame and sorrow. Harassment and humiliation, operation and separation, poverty and pity. The harijana problems is not merely a social or religious or economic or political one. It is a complex problem involving many factors. It is, however, the most baffling national problem, posing a great challenge to the leaders, rulers and people of India."
Prabhupāda: On the whole—you read this article—why not say that "We can lead you to the highest perfection of cultural, social, religion." It will be...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want us to write a letter to the editor?
Prabhupāda: Not editor. The person who is the leader. Means the harijana movement. They are feeling frustration. Now we can give them the light.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One problem I see... Of course, I haven't read the article in any detail, but generally they very much oppose—of course, unrightly so—they very much oppose the delineation of "śūdra." They are śūdras, these harijanas. But...
Prabhupāda: But it doesn't matter. We shall elevate them to go back to home, back to Godhead. Whatever he may be. Striyo vaiśyas tathā śūdrāḥ (BG 9.32). Kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyā bhaktā rājarṣayaḥ (BG 9.33). Simply by denying that "I am not śūdra," that will not help. But they must be elevated to the standard of brāhmaṇa. That we will talk later on. But we have to convince that "This world movement is going on to make the human society to the highest perfection of life. If you join, we can help you." To the perfection of life. On the basis of Bhagavad-gītā. There is no difficulty. That we can do.
Bhakti-caru: They have their unions. How can we approach the union and talk to the leaders?
Prabhupāda: Well, address him, that Dr. ... We are actually doing all over the world. Why not here?
Bhakti-caru: But the thing is Dr. Amritsar is dead now. He was the leader of the harijanas.
Prabhupāda: Whoever may be, but they could not do anything. Neither they can do. They do not know how to elevate them. We know that. We can help. And we are actually doing it. The idea is they are feeling frustration for want of leader. We are prepared to guide them. To the highest perfection of life. (pause) The defect was Gandhi started this harijana movement, keeping them where they are, and at the same time, changing by rubber-stamp, "harijana." That must be failure.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They spend three thousand, one hundred crores on the harijanas. Can you imagine if they had given you that money Śrīla Prabhupāda, what you could have done with it.
Bhakti-caru: Over ninety percent of the money has gone to the damn politicians.
Prabhupāda: Now harijana, he has..., Gandhi has degraded the name of harijana to such a position that if somebody comes and if he says, "I am harijana," immediately we shall hate him.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We hate him.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because we know there is camar bhangi, he has changed the name, "harijana."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is another thing that we should point out in our letter. That what is the actual meaning of harijana? "One who serves Hari, or Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: One who has been elevated to the position of associate of Hari. That has to be done. Then it will be first class. That we can do. Nobody can do.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the translation for the word jana?
Prabhupāda: Jana means person. Hari means the Lord. A government man. Hari's man. Like Nārada.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nārada Muni is a harijana.
Prabhupāda: Yes. All devotees.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Look at this question, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It says "Who are these harijanas? What is their origin? What sins did they commit?"
Prabhupāda: Then you answer that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, we can answer these questions. Yes, they did commit sins. Therefore they are in this position.
Prabhupāda: Don't say... Harijana means the person associated with God.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But these men are... I mean their position... Everyone is getting what he deserves. So if they are in a downtrodden...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). Sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). This is the science.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Says, "They desire freedom from the age-old shackles of superstition..."
Prabhupāda: Where is the shackle? Age-old shackles. Where is the shackle?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There is nothing keeping them down but their own inability.
Prabhupāda: You are keeping yourself in shackle. If you want to be educated, there was... Dr. Ambedekhar, he belonged to the harijana. How he became a law member? Where is the shackle?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The article ends by saying, "Let harijanas be their own pathfinders and let them lead themselves from darkness to light, from pain to pleasure."
Prabhupāda: That you do not know. Otherwise you would have done it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "And from a living hell to tranquillity and joy of life."
Prabhupāda: You do not know how to do it. Otherwise you had done it. You do not know the way. We can teach you. So cooperate with us; we shall fulfill your ambition. That's all right.
Prabhupāda: The proposal is there. Here it is already done. The same principle, the four things, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ (BG 18.65). These four principles, what is the difficulty? But if you are determined, "No, we shall not follow," then who can educate you? There is no loss. And if there is some gain, why not take it? We have to educate so many young men. So I think that harijana movement... You can bring that... That one gentleman, Dr. Parmar(?), you know him?
Mr. Rajda: Dr. Faramar?
Prabhupāda: Yes?
Mr. Rajda: Faramar, I have... Yeah.
Prabhupāda: He has regretted that "Government has spent so much money and we have tried, but we could not improve our position."
Prabhupāda: So contact him. If he's sincere, let him cooperate with us. We'll make everything nice. And if they want to eat hog's flesh and wine, at the same time become harijana, (laughs) that is not possible.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So there's certain stipulations to our taking responsibility for the one hundred million harijanas.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We can take them. Why one hundred million? Whole universe we can take. It is Kṛṣṇa ... Method is simple: you have to follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu and speak Bhagavad-gītā. Bas. Where is the difficulty? Why one hundred million? All, whole universe we can take, provided they are prepared. Our business is not difficult. What Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said we have to execute and speak Bhagavad-gītā. Bas. What I am doing? These two things are. Not at all. But these rascal will not take.
Prabhupāda: So we can uplift the position of the harijanas very easily, by this process of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. There is a song, Bengali song, vrajendra-nandana yei. You understand Bengali?
Ram Jethmalani: No.
Prabhupāda: Vrajendra-nandana yei, śacī-suta haila sei, meaning that "Who was formerly Vrajendra-nandana, Kṛṣṇa, Nanda Mahārāja's son, the same person has now come as Caitanya Mahāprabhu." Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mother's name was Śacīdevī. Therefore He is introduced, "The same person who was formerly the son of Nanda Mahārāja has come again as the son of Śacīdevī." Balarāma haila nitāi. "And Balarāma has come as Nitāi." These two brothers, Gaura-Nitāi, They have now started this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. So what is the purpose of this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement? So pāpī-tāpī yata chila, hari-nāma uddhārila. In the Kali-yuga, ninety-nine percent, they are sinful and suffering. Pāpī-tāpī. Pāpī means sinful, and tāpī means suffering. All of them, pāpī-tāpī yata chila, they are all delivered simply by this process of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. Pāpī-tāpī yata chila, hari-nāma uddhārila. Then where is the evidence? Tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. You are a lawyer, you want witness, evidence.
Prabhupāda: So that is five hundred years ago. Now in our Hare Kṛṣṇa movement you see practically. Drunkards, illicit sex-hunters, and so on, so on, they have become saintly persons. This is the effect of it. So... And Kṛṣṇa also says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). It doesn't matter. Pāpa-yoni. According to our Vedic system, low-class, those who are born in low-grade family, they are called pāpa-yoni. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, lower than that—śūdrādhaḥ. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). They are called pāpa-yoni, untouchables. Of course, nowadays these things cannot go on. But these are there. So Kṛṣṇa says, ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Anyone born in anywhere, te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. Mām eva vyapāśritya. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice, everyone can be elevated. So what is this harijana? We can do.
Ram Jethmalani: Well, some of these slum-dwellers are not harijanas and some of them are Muslims, some of them are...
Prabhupāda: Anyone, anyone. You see. My all disciples, they are coming. Christian, Jewish, Muslim, every kind. Mostly they are my disciples.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So harijanas, Muslims, these are... And camara-bhangi. These are designations. Or brāhmaṇa, bodily concept of life. So according to our śāstra, so long one continues this bodily concept of life, he is animal. Either you call I am bhangi, or you call I am brāhmaṇa, you are animal. This is the verdict of the śāstra. What is the difference? The conception is the same. "I am dog." "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am Indian," "I am American." That "I am" with the bodily identification is there.
Prabhupāda: They did not accept. Therefore we see there is indirect indifference with our temple. Did you mark it? The high-class Hindus, they do not very much appreciate our...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which one?
Prabhupāda: Our temples.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Our temples?
Prabhupāda: Because it is managed by the Americans. Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In all of our temples here? All of our temples here. Yeah, actually people like the Samanis, they don't... They come to see you, but they don't... Even the Deity may be superbeautiful, superexcellent, but they won't go near Him.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I wanted these harijana. Harijana.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: 'Cause they don't distinguish like that.
Prabhupāda: No. They are searching after some guide.
Prabhupāda: Whatever enjoyment they did—within India, not that taking away the money outside India. Therefore it was very good relationship. And Indian people, they do not mind who is king. "We pay our tax. That's all." That is the attitude from the very beginning. The general people, they did not mind whether Kurus or war(?) will reign over or the Pāṇḍavas. "We don't mind. You become fight. You become king. We give our tax. That's all." So there was no fight with the subject between king and citizens. This democracy is a demon-crazy. It has no value. It is simply waste of time and effort and no feeling, demon-crazy. I do not know who introduced this. In India still there is no demon-crazy. Indian king always. Everyone is taking part in politics. What is this nonsense? It is meant for the kṣatriyas. They can fight and defend. The rascals, bhangis, chamars, and they are also in politics. Harijanas... Every one of them vote, and everyone has got the right to become king, minister. Not this. The real thing they are missing, the mode of life, the aim of life. (break)...care. Everyone is theorizing, everyone is educated, and everyone is, they're hippie. That's all.
| Page Title: | Harijana |
| Compiler: | Labangalatika |
| Created: | 30 of Jan, 2009 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=1, OB=3, Lec=8, Con=26, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 38 |