Prabhupāda: A sinful person cannot understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is said, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ. One who has completely vanquished all sorts of sinful reactions. Now, the question may be that whether one can finish all sorts of sinful reactions within this material world. No, that is not possible. But it is possible also. What is that? That is also answered in the Bhagavad-gītā that "You give up everything. Surrender unto Me. I shall give you protection from all sinful reactions." So I may be sinful and there are so many reactions awaiting me for giving me trouble, but as soon as Kṛṣṇa takes charge of me, then everything is finished. How it can be finished? Because He is all-powerful, He's the supreme. Just like if the president says... One man is ordered to be hanged. If the president says, "No, he should not be hanged," then immediately all others sanction. Because he's the supreme. Similarly, if we surrender to Kṛṣṇa, in spite of a huge stock of sinful reactions awaiting me, simply for the purpose of my surrendering to Kṛṣṇa they're all set aside by Kṛṣṇa. He'll see to it. Simply surrender. And that surrender, as soon as it is done, then the other word says, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ... (BG 7.28).
Hanged (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: They want to know how the creation has taken place. You see? That explanation is not there, neither the church can give them. You see. Therefore they are not satisfied. Simply officially going to the church and offering prayer, that does not appeal to them. Besides that, practically, they do not follow religious principles. Just like in the Old Testament, there is, I mean to say, Ten Commandments, and there is Commandment that "Thou shall not kill." But killing affair is very prominent in the Christian world. They are maintaining slaughterhouse very regularly, and they have manufactured a theory that animals have no soul, they do not feel—because they have to kill. "Give the dog a bad name and hang it." Why animal cannot feel? Why you are committing these sinful activities? So the priestly class, they will not also say, they will not discuss, everyone is silent. That means deliberately, I mean to say, disobeying Ten Commandments. So where is religious principle? If you don't obey the commandments of your scripture does it mean that you are following a religion nicely? How you can kill which you cannot create? And it is plainly stated there, "Thou shall not kill." What is the answer? Why they are killing? What is the answer? How do you answer it?
Journalist: Let me ask you something that we've run into a great deal just recently. We've just started a youth supplement for kids. And one of the most... What should I say? That particular thing which provides perhaps the biggest schism between man's, or at least American man's and woman's love of God or the following of the Ten Commandments, is the problem, how shall I put it, well, the sexual problem. We here in this country are taught, and we have the Puritan background, that sex is a bad thing. And hopefully we're coming out of it, but when young people, a person reaches the age of puberty... Here in this country, I don't know from other countries. He begins to have a terrible, obviously a terrible problem. Now I'm stating something that's obvious. We've all gone through this. But it seems that is has been impossible for the western churches to give to the young people something to hold on to so that they can understand number one that what they're feeling is a normal beautiful thing, and number two, how to cope with it. And there is nothing in western culture that teaches or helps a young person to cope with this thing that is a very, very difficult problem. And I went through it. We all have. Now do you in your message, give the young people something to hold...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Journalist: ...to hang onto, and if so, what?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes I give.
Journalist: What?
Prabhupāda: I ask all my disciples to get married. I don't allow these boys living with boyfriend, girlfriend. No. You must get yourself married, life like gentlemen, treat your wife as assistant, treat your husband as your provider. In this way, I am teaching them. This boy was married just four days before. He is professor. So I have got so many of my disciples married, and they are living very happily. This girl is married. Formerly, they were living with girlfriend, boyfriend. I don't allow that. I don't allow that.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya that He revealed His heavenly powers to His associates.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That was done in one day, saṅkīrtana. He asked His devotees after saṅkīrtana, "What do you want to eat?" So some of the devotees out of fun said that "We want mango." But that was not mango season. So He asked somebody, "All right. Bring some mango seed." So mango seed can be had in Bengal in everywhere because after eating mangoes they throw it, and gradually they become a small plant. So He brought some small plant mango and immediately sowed it on the courtyard, and immediately it became a big tree and full of mango.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That would be a nice time for us to distribute prasāda to all the people.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If possible, mangoes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. From the tree. We'll have them hung on the tree and pick.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You have got nice ideas. You can do very nicely. Yes. This is required, creative ideas.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe... About Lord Caitanya's civil disobedience. That is with the Kazi? His civil disobedience?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is the Kazi.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So they are not interested in many gods, Durga, Kali, or Śiva, or... (Hindi) Strictly, if you take the version of Bhagavad-gītā, why Bhagavān says that "You give up all religion. Simply you take to the shelter of My feet?" That means to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet is the only religion. (Hindi) Practically that was against Hindu conception. (Hindi) We are not talking of God, (Hindi) we are talking of love. Why you misunderstand? Don't misunderstand the philosophy. We are teaching love of Godhead. It is not we are teaching that you become afraid of God. (break) (Hindi) Bahut easy process hai. You come, sing, dance, and take prasādam. Is there any difficulty? If people come to us, in melodious songs they sing and they dance and when they are tired they take sumptuously prasādam, so what can be the more convenient way? (Hindi) You are a qualified lawyer, but you cannot do for want of money. (Hindi) He has no right because he does not know what is name. Nāma-cintāmaṇi-kṛṣṇaś caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ. (Hindi) Yes. Because you are responsible, if you cut throat of a goat, then you'll be responsible. Just like in your jurist(?) law, if you commit murder—you are lawyer—you have to be hanged. So, (Hindi) "...life for life." So I am killing one life. I shall not be liable to repay by my life.
Prabhupāda: Ultimately he will be punished either by the king's law or by the God's law. I can escape the king's law by doing something which is abominable but I cannot escape God's law. That is not possible. Therefore, although he is thinking that "Now I am cheating this person," or "I am stealing and getting some profit," that is not good for him. Just like a man is killing some man, another man. So that is not good for him because as soon as he will be arrested he'll be hanged. So they think that "I am cheating the state, I am cheating God, and I can go on gratifying my senses by all these activities," but that is stated in the śāstra as garhitā. Garhitā means it is not beneficial for you." Na sādhu mānye yato ātmano 'yam. In another place it is said, "These kinds of activities, vikarma, is not good ultimately." Na sādhu mānye yato ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4).
Prabhupāda: You were in Calcutta? Oh, none of you were with me. We saw one house for purchasing. That was a big zamindar's house, Tagore Thakur(?) You saw? Yes. If you have saw... How nicely it was. When they were in opulence in our childhood, oh, it was a house to be seen. There are many houses. Just like in England the lord families. In Ascot, where we stayed, that was also lord family's house. Now Yoko's house, a third-class Japanese girl. She has become the queen of the house. And how third-class, low-grade. It is the sitting room and a naked picture has... How much degraded people have become. How this man is daring to hang that picture in his sitting room so that everyone who comes sees. How much low-graded they are. They want change, but because they have no (indistinct) education they are going to the animal sphere. That is hippie movement. Yes. From animal standard they become civilized. The same story, punar muṣika bhāvaḥ. You know that story? "Again become mouse."
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Devotee (4): I think if there is so much fear being preached in Christianity originally the Old Testament was the testament of the vengeful God and the New Testament was supposed to be the love of Christ. So if there is so much fear being preached it seems to be a reflection of individual consciousness more than the religion. They are preaching so much fear, it would seem to stem from their own activities, that maybe they do have this fear rather than the true reflection of the religion that Christ was teaching. He was supposedly (indistinct) to take up the sins of his disciples and to help them lead the nice life and lead them back. He said, he referred to them as his flock. So he was taking the role of a protector and yet the Christians you speak to, they talk about hanging you over hell by a thin thread that can be burnt away at any second. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Devotee: He said the Christians... (break)
Prabhupāda: But generally the Christians they are very much confident that all of our sinful actions they have been absorbed by Lord Jesus Christ so we can do anything.
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they say the Christian religion is very good. Very good means that Lord Jesus Christ has taken contract for absorbing all their sins and they go on committing. Is that not idea in the Christian religion?
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Only point is, "Make it zero. And so long you are living, enjoy as you like, because afterwards you are going to be zero. There is no responsibility. So you gratify your senses to the fullest extent." That's all. Just like, I do not know, I have never hanged, but anyone who is going to be hanged, he is offered that "Whatever you want, you can enjoy." Is that...
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...fact?
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So their philosophy, "You are going to be hanged. Now you can enjoy whatever you like." So this philosophy, that because the Māyāvādī philosophy is impersonal, zero, therefore people don't care for sin. "Enjoy life. You shall finish."
Devotee: There's the story of a man who is being hanged and they said, "You can have whatever you want." So he said, "Whatever I want?" So they said, "Yes." So he says, "I want ten more years life."
Prabhupāda: We don't say whatever you want. You enjoy. Gratify your senses as much as you like.
Devotee (2): Charlie Chaplin kept us up all night. (laughs) Charlie Chaplin show.
Prabhupāda: Hm. That was nice. (laughter) He is really funny man. (laughs) He has got originality. All his comic play has got some originality, that is the beauty. How he invented! (laughs) I think that character, when he was a drunkard, he was a great friend, (laughs) and when he's not drunkard, "Who is this man?" (laughs) He's grave(?) as rich man. And as drunkard, "You pay. You are my friend, life-long friend. Whatever you want, you take." (laughs) So these characters he's painting, it's very good intelligence. And he made him friend when he was going to commit suicide.
Devotee (1): Yeah, he stopped him.
Prabhupāda: He stopped him. Accidentally he stopped. (laughs) Not willingly.
Devotee (2): Yes. He tried to pull him up from the water, he went in himself.
Prabhupāda: It is very nice, funny man with intelligence. And before him there was another, Mr. Max Linder.
Devotee: Max Linder.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was also very funny Englishman. In our childhood we used to enjoy their play, Max Linder and Chaplin, or Charlie Chaplin.
Devotee: They were showing them in India?
Prabhupāda: Uh? Yes. Max Linder, I remember, he was sitting in a park. (laughter) You know that?
Devotee: I don't know anything about it.
Prabhupāda: He was sitting in a park, so that English dress, that tail coat? What is called?
Devotee: Coattails, yeah.
Prabhupāda: So the tail was hanging, so some naughty boys, they fixed up nails, you see? So when he got up, the whole tail gone, you see? But he could not understand. He went to the ball dance. So he's dancing, so everyone's seeing his tail, in this way. So he thought, "Oh, what is the matter?" He went to the mirror and he saw, "Oh, my tail is lost." (laughs) Then he came again in the ball dance and he was pushing everyone, just to show. And everyone was asking, "What is this? What is this?" "Oh, you do not know? This is latest fashion. This is latest fashion." Then all of them cut the tails. I think he had taken the idea, (Sanskrit). This is Sanskrit story, that (Sanskrit), or monkey, he lost his tail, and he began to advertise, "This is the latest fashion." So that ball-dancing without tail, that was, I remember, it is very enjoyable. They say that Charlie Chaplin is the student of Max Linder. He learned this funny play from Max Linder. So I knew Charlie Chaplin is an Englishman.
Prabhupāda: No. There the people have a sufficient income. Here the municipality has no income, (indistinct) this all botheration. He cannot stock. Suppose if you want to stock fifty thousand worth paper, unnecessarily you have to pay five percent.
Pañca-draviḍa: Five to ten percent.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Pañca-draviḍa: Five to ten percent.
Prabhupāda: Five to ten percent. Now fifty thousand at five to ten percent, how much? Unnecessarily you have to (indistinct). And to take back that octroi, I have got experience when I was in Allahabad doing business, you know, to take back the octroi, it is hanging. I could not develop my wholesale business due to the octroi. Then I arranged, because I was agent of Dr. Bose's factory. I was disbursing goods direct from Calcutta and sending bill from Allahabad. Octroi botheration I have got experience. You cannot do any large-scale business, the rascal government do not (indistinct) it. Due to this octroi botheration, nobody can do any large-scale business. Either you have to keep your go-down beyond the octroi limit.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Brahmānanda: Just like when the magistrate gives you a sentence, you cannot say: "Oh, give me this sentence..." No, you must accept.
Prabhupāda: No.
Brahmānanda: ...what the punishment is.
Prabhupāda: That is not possible. Neither you can say the magistrate partial, the judge. Somebody, he gives, "Give him degree for one million dollars." Another: "Hang him." So the judge is not partial. He is getting his money. He's getting his punishment. He's simply making judgement. He's not impartial. He's not enemy to anyone or friend to anyone. Similarly according to your work, you'll get punishment or reward by God. God is not partial.
Brahmānanda: Sanātana Gosvāmī also asked that question to Caitanya Mahāprabhu...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is, that is the question of human life, that: "I want to enjoy. Why there is obstruction of my enjoyment?" Then the next question will be then what I am and what is this nature? These are intelligent questions. That is called brahma-jijñāsā. Where shall I eat? Where shall I sleep? These are very minor questions. They are questions for animals. For the human being, this is the question, that "I want to enjoy life. Why there are so many obstructions?" This is human question. The animals, they do not question. They submit. Just like when you slay one animal, it submits. But a human being, there is law because human being is intelligent. So you cannot kill any other human being, you cannot murder. Then you'll be hanged. But they cannot make law. They're lower grade animals. They submit, somebody killing. But the objection is there, both by the human beings and the animals, that the: "Why you are killing me?" But he's helpless. The man has invented some means. So they have made their laws. But both of them are objecting. In your, in America somewhere, when I first came, there was some incidence that in a live store, they got some opportunity to flee away. Then all the cows were fleeing away. And they were shot down. They were stopped. They knew that: "We are stocked here for being killed." So they got some opportunity, going away. And there is always miserable condition. Just like why you have covered so much? Why you have spent for covering? This is also miserable condition. Miserable condition.
Prabhupāda: According to the desire of the living entity. All facilities, whatever you want, you can have. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). Another logic is bakāṇḍa-nyāya. Bakāṇḍa. Baka and aṇḍa. Baka, the duck. And aṇḍa, the testicle, testicle of the bull. The bull is going and the testicle is hanging, and the duck is after it. He is thinking here is a fish. You find him always going...when it will drop. Bakāṇḍa. This is nature's study. (break) The baka, the duck, they are after fish. So the testicle is hanging, he's thinking it's a big fish, it will drop now. So it will never drop but he is going after it. Just see. Neither it is fish. Another logic is āja-gala-stana, āja-gala-stana. You have seen on the goats in the neck, just like nipples. If one is expecting milk from that nipple, he is also fool. It is not nipple but it looks like nipple. Āja-gala-stana-nyāya.
David Wynne: In the Bhagavad-gītā, he still had to... But it didn't matter him killing if it was Kṛṣṇa's responsibility?
Prabhupāda: No. Fighting or killing, when it is done for, under the guidance of Kṛṣṇa, that is a different thing.
David Wynne: Yeah, I see.
Prabhupāda: Just like a soldier fights on behalf of the king, and the more he kills, he gets medal. The same soldier, as soon as kills one man, he's hanged. He cannot say, the soldier, that "In the battlefield I killed hundreds and hundreds men and I was rewarded. Now I have killed only one man, I am being hanged? What is this?" Why? He's hanged. Because he killed on his own account.
David Wynne: There's the thing.
Prabhupāda: And in the battlefield he killed on the state's account. He was rewarded. So there is difference between killing.
David Wynne: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: When there is real, righteous fight, for good cause, that fighting is all right. Just like the state gives punishment one person, "This man should be hanged. Kill him." So who is blaming the state, "Oh, the state is killing this man?" That is right. It is good for him. In Manu-saṁhitā there is good background. So similarly, everything is good when it is done for the good. And God is good. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious move... And everything is bad when it is done for māyā. That's all. So these wars are declared not for Kṛṣṇa's sake; by the politicians' whims. So they must be responsible for this war.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) ...how you can reject one and accept another. It must be properly utilized.
Reporter: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Just like if one has got money, he cannot... He can utilize it for good purposes, and he can utilize it for bad purposes. So money is not bad. It is bad when the purpose is bad. It is good when the purpose is good.
Reporter: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Similarly hiṁsā, it is used for... Just like in Manu-saṁhitā it is said that the murderer should be hanged. So this is also hiṁsā, to get him a man hanged. But Manu-saṁhitā says that this kind of hiṁsā is necessary. Because the man who's committed murder, if he's hanged, then in this life all his sinful activities finished. Otherwise, in his next life he has to suffer so many things. So it is the duty of the king to take his life so that he may be relieved from other sinful reaction. So according to śāstra, hiṁsā..., ahiṁsā is good, but when there is necessity, hiṁsā is also good.
Prajāpati: No, they were... One scientist, Galileo, he was making all kinds of inquiries into saying that the earth is round and so many things, and the church of that day, the rascal priests, they put him to death because he was saying things that were not in the scriptures. Since that time, especially the last hundred years, the scientists are...
Prabhupāda: No, the things is that it is the government's duty to see that nobody is rascal, either the scientist is rascal or the priest is rascal. There must be real understanding. That is government's duty. Otherwise, if the priest says, "The scientist speaking against religion; therefore he should be hanged," so that is not good government. Government must see that whether the scientist is speaking the truth. That sense must be there. Yes, world is round. That is fact. Goloka. In Vedic literature it is bhū-gola, jagad-aṇḍa. These words are there. We can see also it is round, jagad-aṇḍa. The universe is round. And Goloka. Or Bhū-gola. Bhū-gola, the earth is round. So in the Vedic literatures... Therefore their knowledge is also imperfect because they do not refer to the Vedic literatures. It is already there. Bhū-gola. Bhū means the earth; gola means round. It is already there. And the geography's called, according to Sanskrit, it is called Bhū-gola. Long, long ago, before Galileo. So if the state is blind, he does not see whether he's talking right or wrong, then havi candra raja gobi candra mantri (?). What can be done. That is going on. Because the government means a set of fools, so all foolish people are flourishing. Government is a set of fools because sinful men. They cannot be intelligent. A sinful man cannot be intelligent. Yes. That's a fact. If he's intelligent, then his intelligence is used for wrong things. Duṣkṛtina. Kṛtina. Kṛtina means intelligent, but duṣkṛtina, badly intelligent, for doing wrong things. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Karandhara: Well, just like if a big tornado comes and kills a thousand people...
Prabhupāda: Yes, because on account of their sins. Because they do not know. Why government hangs one person? Is there government discrepancy? When government says, the judge says, "This man must be hanged," is it discrepancy? It is justice.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is just like the concept that if God is all-merciful, why He is so impartial, somebody making happy, somebody making suffering?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is mercifulness. Just like when doctor says, "You don't take anything today. You fast," that is mercy. That is mercy. It is good for him. By starving, he will be cured. That is mercy. And according to Manu-saṁhitā, when a man is hanged, that is mercy. If he is hanged... He has committed murder. He should be hanged so all his sinful reaction finished. Otherwise next birth, he has to suffer. He has to be killed by somebody else.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the tendency is that the sufferer wants to complain.
Prabhupāda: No, that they will complain. Just like when a man is ordered to be hanged, he will complain, "Just see the police, judge. He has ordered me to be hanged." That complaint will go on. Just like a child. When the doctor says, "Don't eat anything." He will complain. He will cry, "Why doctor says like that?" But it has to be done.
Karandhara: Well, why? If we are attacked, then we must deserve it.
Prabhupāda: No, it may be that somebody is attacking even you do not deserve. So therefore you have got intelligence. You have got hands. You must try to protect. Just like one man is destined to be hanged, but still, he appoints a lawyer and tries to save him. He knows that "I have committed murder, I must be hanged."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply if you are passing by... Just like dog. Without any fault, bark, "Wowf! Wowf! Wowf! Worf!" This is the animal nature. Without any fault, I am passing, I am not entering his gate. Still, the dog will bark. Similarly, the snake... You simply pass through. He will feel pleasure, biting you. That is snake's business. Therefore nobody is merciful upon snake.
Karandhara: Because of his poison.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) There was a snake. He was living under my bed. So you know katiya? (?) The rope, katiya? So I saw something is hanging like snake tail. So I called my servant, "There must be some snake. Some tail is hanging." So the servant, they called all their friends. They came with stick, about a dozen. And as soon as the mattress was taken, there was snake. So I told them, "Don't kill it. No, no." "Nei saheb, yei nei hatya." (?) Ah, immediately killed.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prajāpati: ...well you utilize your time, Śrīla Prabhupāda, every second is engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. And our advanced Godbrothers, they've also learned this art. The vast majority of us, we haven't quite got the hang of it yet.
Prabhupāda: It is practiced. As by practicing you become a first-class drunkard, similarly by practicing you can become a first-class Kṛṣṇa conscious. It is equal. Abhyāsa-yoga-yuktena cetasā nānya-gāminā (BG 8.8). Abhyāsa. Practice. In association the practice is very easily done. Just like you are saying, that you are engaged. So by association you can learn also. The association is very important. (break)
Prabhupāda: You may not eat, that is a different thing. But the Vedic authority... Just like, suppose the law says, "This man should be hanged." If you say, "No, even if he is criminal, he should not be hanged," that means denying the authority of law. You cannot say this.
Prabhupāda: You cannot deny the authority of Vedas. Suppose you are following ahiṁsā, you cannot say that "State should not anymore hang anybody." That you cannot say. You follow.
Prabhupāda: That is the... That is your alpa-medhasaḥ. You cannot understand. What I'm speaking you do not understand.
Indian man (3): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: He... That example I'm giving, that the law is that the murderer should be hanged. If you fight, "I don't care for this law, because you are hanging one person," that will be contempt of court. You may not like, but the law is there. You cannot condemn the law. That is my point. That is my point.
Guest (5): You say He has not created. Now you say He has created...
Prabhupāda: No, He...
Guest (5): Contradicting yourself.
Prabhupāda: Then because...
Dr. Patel: (Gujarati)
Guest (5): Sorry about that.
Prabhupāda: Let me explain it. Let me explain it. Suppose you are ordered by the judge that you should be hanged. So it is certainly his creation, your hanging. But is the judge enemy of you that he has ordered you to be hanged? You have created such thing that you should be hanged. This is the answer. (break) ...situation that you must be hanged. But the order must come from the judge. So externally the judge is hanging you. But actually he's not hanging you. You are hanging yourself. This is the way. (break) ...hanged, there is no choice. Is it not? But still, you created the position of being hanged. That is the position. When the judge has ordered that "He should be hanged," there is no more choice. But who has created this situation?
Dr. Patel:
- na ca māṁ tāni karmāṇi
- nibadhnanti dhanañjaya
- udāsīna-vad āsīnam
- asaktaṁ teṣu karmasu
Prabhupāda: Yes. The same thing, that just like a judge orders, "This man should be hanged," but the judge is not affected by such thing. He's not affected. Just like you surgical, you are going on surgical operation. You are not affected. The man is crying, "Oh, here, doctor, you are killing me, killing me, killing me." But the killing or not killing, doctor Saheb is not in con-(indistinct).
Prabhupāda: ...meeting, our life members are not coming?
Mahāṁsa: Yes, it is (indistinct). Many life members came, Prabhupāda. There were many cars also. (break)
Prabhupāda: No mangoes are hanging. (break) "Kṛṣṇa is everything," is little difficult for everyone, eh? They want hodge-podge—"Everything is all right." So has anybody offered some lump sum for the construction?
Mahāṁsa: Not as yet, Prabhupāda. Actually they are all waiting for Mr. Piti(?) to make his pledge. They have some kind of... These Marwaris... (break)
Prabhupāda: Yes. The oxen will solve the problem of transport. That bullock cart. Just like Kṛṣṇa, when He was transferred from Gokula to Nandagrāma, so they took all the bullock carts, and within a few hours they transported them, the whole thing, their luggage, family member, everything.
Bhagavān: How far can a bullock cart travel in one day?
Prabhupāda: At least ten miles, very easily, very easily. And maximum he can travel fifteen miles, twenty miles. But when we are localized, we don't require to go beyond ten miles, five miles. Because we have created a rubbish civilization, therefore one is required to go fifty miles for earning bread, hundred miles, hanging.
Prabhupāda: So we offer Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wants: "Give me this foodstuff," so we offer the foodstuff to Kṛṣṇa, and we take it. Therefore, if for killing this patraṁ puṣpam there is sin, that is Kṛṣṇa's sin, not my sin. (German) But Kṛṣṇa, God, apāpa-viddham, sinful reaction cannot take place to Him. Apāpa-viddham. Pāpa means sinful. Just like the sun is powerful. It can absorb urine, but you cannot drink urine. (German) So the injunction is tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). One who is very powerful... Just like a king. He orders, "Kill this man. Murder." He commits murder regularly, chopped up. But he is not under the law, being hanged, because he is very powerful. But an ordinary man, if he commits murder, he will be hanged. When there is fight the commander in chief says, "You kill them," and the soldier kills and he gets gold medal. But the same soldier, when he kills a single person at home, he is hanged. Therefore this injunction, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26), "This vegetables give Me. I shall eat, and you take the prasādam." So we are not sinful.
Prabhupāda: So anyone who is trying to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness he is very, very dear to Kṛṣṇa. Because that is the real welfare work. All bogus. That is a fact. Everyone is under the laws of material nature. How you can do benefit to him? It is very powerful. The same example, the man is condemned by law to be hanged, you cannot save him however rich man you may be. It is not possible. But the state executive head can excuse. Similarly, you cannot do anything without Kṛṣṇa's order. So if you want to help your relatives, your friends, your..., then you must become Kṛṣṇa conscious and make him Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the only way. This is the only responsibility. There is no other responsibility. And to serve this responsibility you can do everything. To make a person Kṛṣṇa conscious, you can give him help, you can give him education, you can give him money, you can..., to make him Kṛṣṇa conscious. Not for sense gratification. Then it will be useless. He is going hell, you are going hell, that's all. That's all. All other bogus. (end)
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, their Ramakrishna Mission allurement is that daridra-nārāyaṇa-seva and hospital. That is their only allurement. They have no program. Nobody is attracted by their philosophy. And what philosophy they have got? Never mind. We are not concerned with them.
Madhudviṣa: When we were in Māyāpur, I had the idea of...
Prabhupāda: Aiye (Hindi) (Aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Guest (4) (Indian man): Purī Mahārāja.
Prabhupāda: Purī Mahārāja? Oh? (Bengali) Oh. This Caitanya Mahāprabhu? (Sounds like looking at child's? drawing) Very good. Hang it here. Very good.
Madhudviṣa: Get some ropes.
Prabhupāda: No, get some rope. Just read. (end)
Siddha-svarūpa: This is the buildings where all the... (break) They don't have any crocodiles here.
Paramahaṁsa: Is that a shark? That big fish... See that big fish, Prabhupāda? That big one on the wall? He is hanging?
Prabhupāda: Oh, he is dead?
Paramahaṁsa: Yes, dead fish. That's a shark.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...they're kept for sale?
Siddha-svarūpa: Well, no. It's a very strange thing. They just show everybody. They capture them and show everybody what they look like. The public pays 25 cents to go see what it looks like. (break)
Prabhupāda: Take. (eating)
Dr. Mize: This is delicious.
Prabhupāda: Now you can take. Kṛṣṇa has given us so many nice things. Why should we kill the poor animals? That's not good. Because na samaḥ, there is no such vision, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. He is not a brāhmaṇa. He is giving the dog a bad name and hang it. Animal has no soul. What is this? Animal has no soul?
Bahulāśva: Sometimes they argue that we're killing the vegetables.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Vegetable has also life but we are not killing. When you pluck out the flower, the tree is not killed. When you take a fruit, the tree is not killed. When you take grains, automatically they die. Then you take the grains. There is no question of killing. But even it is killing, it is not as murderous as killing a cow. Why the state hangs a man when he kills a man? The man can plead that "So many animals are being killed every day. If I kill one man, what is the wrong there?" The punishment is that "You have killed one important animal." Therefore the Bhaga..., kṛṣi-go-rakṣya, that cow should be protected because it is a very, very, important animal. It does not say, "Other animal." Or does not say, "All animals." He said, "Cows," because important. It's supplying you milk, so important food. She is your mother and you are killing mother? Is that your civilization? Killing mother? "Mother is old, and mother is no more supplying milk. Kill." Is there any such sanction? Rather, old mother is given more protection. And what is this civilization, killing the mother? In the morning we require milk immediately, and the mother cow is supplying. And when she cannot supply, kill her. What is this philosophy?
Prabhupāda: My first step will be to capture all the hoarders and distribute the grains free. Immediately public will be obliged to... There are immense food grains; they are simply hoarded. They are not selling without good price. This is going on. Immediately she can capture the public. And some of the hoarders should be hanged, yes, so that in future nobody will hoard. People are hungry. And she says she has got some program, garivi hatta(?), "Drive away the poverty." This is the point. If she can supply all consumer goods for the time being free to the poor, then immediately the whole population will be after her. And the hoarders should be exemplary punished. Shoot them, that's all. Then nobody will hoard. But to remain the dictator she requires spiritual knowledge. Otherwise it will be another disaster. If she wants to remain the dictator, then she must be a spiritual man. She must become a Vaiṣṇavī. (end)
City Counselor: Again, I think the problem now will be complying with the building laws in order to get the temple in safe condition. That's the only problem now. I don't think that there is opposition to the temple per se.
Prabhupāda: Then it is... It comes to the conclusion of suppression, that "Give the dog a bad name and hang it." "You are not properly dressed; therefore you should stop it." It is like that.
Dharmādhyakṣa: Nowadays they're actually realizing their error and they're studying death more, trying to prepare people for death more. But the only thing they can tell them is, "Accept it." The only thing they can do is say, "You are going to die. So just accept it with a cheerful attitude."
Prabhupāda: But I do not wish to die. Why shall I be cheerful? You rascal, you say, "Become cheerful." (laughter) "Cheerfully, you become hanged." (laughter) The lawyer will say, "Never mind. You have lost the case. Now you cheerfully be hanged." (laughter)
Dharmādhyakṣa: That is actually... The whole goal of modern psychology is to make people adjust to the fact that they must stay in this material world and that if you have some desire to leave the material world, they will tell you you are crazy. "No, no. Now you must adjust more again to the material condition."
Bahulāśva: They teach you to accept the frustrations of life.
Prabhupāda: Why frustration? You are big, big scientist. You cannot solve?
Dharmādhyakṣa: They cannot solve because they have the same problems.
Prabhupāda: The same logic, "Cheerfully be hanged." That's all. As soon as there is some difficult subject, they give up. And they speculate on some nonsense thing. That's all. This is their education. Education means atyantika-duḥkha-nivṛtti, the ultimate solution of all unhappiness. That is education, not that after coming to some extent, "No, you can die happily." And what is duhkha, unhappiness? That is presented by Kṛṣṇa: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānu... (BG 13.9). These are your unhappiness. Try to solve it. And that they are carefully avoiding. They cannot stop death, neither birth, nor old age, nor disease. And during the short period of life, birth and death, they are making big, big buildings, and next time he is becoming one rat within the buildings. (laughter) Nature. You cannot avoid the nature's law. As you cannot avoid death, similarly, nature will give you another body. Become a tree in this university. Stand up for five thousand years. You wanted to be naked. Now nobody will object. You stand here naked.
Dhanañjaya: It's a colony of birds.
Prabhupāda: Babui(?). They create such nest, hanging nest. It is very nice fiber, fabricated. They know the art, simply by beaks. They have no hands. They want... They work only with the beaks, and you see the workmanship. Is our men going?
Indian man (4): How would you know what to consume and what not, Swamijī?
Prabhupāda: That is stated in the śāstra. Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). Patram means vegetable, leaves; puṣpam, flower. In this way, whatever He says, you collect and offer to Him and take prasādam. Then you are not responsible. And if you collect for yourself even patram without offering to Kṛṣṇa, if you take, you are responsible for killing. It doesn't matter whether you kill a big animal or a small plant. You are responsible. Just like a soldier. He kills hundreds and thousands of men and he is given gold medal. And as soon as he kills one man for his sense gratification he is hanged. Eh? Is it not? He can say, "I have killed so many men. At that time I was not hanged. I was given gold medal. How is that? (laughter) I have killed only one man. I am going to be hanged?" That is law. You cannot do anything on your own account, sense gratification. Then you are responsible. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'ya karma-bandhanaḥ. Everything is stated. Read Bhagavad-gītā very thoroughly and try to understand. Then everything will be clear, how to live, how to organize society. We have to live. The same thing: we are also working, we are also eating, we are sleeping, we are also marrying—but according to Kṛṣṇa's direction. Then it is Kṛṣṇa conscious life and perfect life. And as soon as you do anything whimsically, at your will, then you are responsible. Kṛṣṇa or His representative. Kṛṣṇa is giving instruction, and His representative is explaining. In both ways Kṛṣṇa is helping. So even so much facility being offered to you, if you don't take advantage, then you are committing suicide.
Harikeśa: But if the child would cause the mother so much anxiety...
Prabhupāda: Don't talk like foolish. Don't talk of that. It is waste of time. If it is the property of the mother, mother can kill at any time. Why at a certain point if the mother kills child she is hanged? If the mother has got the liberty to kill the child, she can kill at any time.
Harikeśa: Well, it's just a tumor. It's like a tumor.
Prabhupāda: Then why you say that it is mother's right to kill? And tumor, can you bring life in tumor? Kick simply on their face, on their nose. That is the only thing to treat with such... Murkhasya latausadhiḥ. Such fools in the society, they should be hanged. Misleading the whole population.
Harikesa: No one else has ever been able to get money out of Tarachand Gupta but Śrīdhara.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā? And before him, I got some money. He gave me five hundred rupees long ago, means before going to United States.
Devotee (2): Girirāja made him a life member.
Prabhupāda: No, he appears to be good man. Yes. One day he met me at Hanging Garden, and he requested me that "One day you have to come to my house."
Harikeśa: They are developing a big bee-hive.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that is collection of food. The trees also do that. They are called pāda-pa. Pāda-pa means they drink water by the legs. You drink water by the mouth and they drink water by the legs. Pāda-pa. Just like the, what is called? Bats. They pass stool through the mouth. Is it not? You do not know this? Yes. (laughter) You'll find the bats, they are hanging down the head, and they're passing stool. Sometimes man also does so, when there is strangulation. That is very dangerous disease. What is called? Intestine strangulation. Then passing stool through the mouth. In Bengal sometimes they curse, "You'll pass stool through the mouth!" Yes, sometimes they do. Sometimes they eat through the rectum. Do you know that?
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Reporter (3): Sometimes the suffering is self brought and sometimes a suffering is brought without self, by nature.
Prabhupāda: Eh? No, no, that is wrong. Every suffering is brought by you, yourself. Just like if you are punished by the high-court judge to be hanged, you don't make the high-court judge is the cause of your hanging. You made a situation; the high-court judge has given you the judgment that you must be hanged.
Madhudviṣa: We can also listen to the Māyāvādīs and then defeat them like that?
Prabhupāda: If you are so qualified like Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Madhudviṣa: (laughs) Otherwise we should...
Prabhupāda: Otherwise you will be captured.
Madhudviṣa: Otherwise we shouldn't listen.
Prabhupāda: No.
Jayādvaita: In America that's called giving someone enough rope to hang himself.
Prabhupāda: Mm.
Pañcadraviḍa: In South India, when we were down there, we had to do that. We listened to them first and then took their money.
Madhudviṣa: But we also should defeat them.
Pañcadraviḍa: Taking their money is defeating them.
Lokanātha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is the position of vrajavāsīs, those who are living in Vṛndāvana now? What happens to them next life?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply by living, if they do not commit any sinful, they'll go back to home. Simply by living. Without committing any sinful activities. Always remember Kṛṣṇa, this is Kṛṣṇa's land, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. That will deliver them.
Prabhupāda: No, no, the machine is called some special name.
Hariśauri: The same idea as cardiograph.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Spectograph?
Prabhupāda: Spectograph, yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Has to do with light?
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, it records how it is moving, how it is going up and down. So that has been proved. The machine is hanged in the tree, and the tree is cut, and immediately makes a mark. Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose has discovered the machine.
Guru-kṛpā: We are expert cheaters also. That's how we get the money.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You are big cheaters. You don't cheat two rupees, three rupees. Two millions. (laughs) That is accusation, Alexander and the thief. The thief accused Alexander the Great that "What is the difference between you and me? I am a small thief; you are a big thief. That's all. Why you are punishing me? You are a big thief. You are doing same thing." Then he was let loose. "Yes, what is difference? (laughs) I am a big thief." (break) ...means Alexander the Great, actually he was great. Otherwise he is the emperor, and ordinary thief is accusing him and he said, "Yes, I am thief." He admitted. That is greatness. That is greatness. If he was not great, then he would have hanged him or punished him: "Oh, you are so.... You are accusing me?" But no, he accepted. That is greatness. Mistake is one fault, but to accept that "I have done mistake," that is greatness.
Bharadvāja: What happens when he dreams of the spiritual master or Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Dreaming means he's seeing. The seer is the same.
Rādhāvallabha: In Hawaii you were saying that they take rest for six months and wake up a dog.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter) (break) ...a small garden like this, that is called a hanging garden.
Hṛdayānanda: You should show Prabhupāda, bring him those plaques.
Jagannātha-suta: Yes, we have those plaques hanging up in the Press building now.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Bring it, I shall see.
Rāmeśvara: There is just one problem, Śrīla Prabhupāda. If the temple thinks that they are going to have to pay for the entire project, it is so costly that they don't want to pay so much. They cannot afford. That's why you originally...
Prabhupāda: If they cannot pay, we are not going to hang them. But the condition is this: They must pay.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe for those who will not pay, we could do simple ones, just with the, a...
Prabhupāda: We do not say that "If you cannot pay, I will hang you." No. "Pay, try to pay." (static) In our Hyderabad scheme, we have taken three, four lakhs loan from you. And he has taken, Jayapatākā has taken, you know? Nobody has paid me. Till now. But there is promise they will pay.
Gopavṛndapāla: We told you yesterday, Śrīla Prabhupāda, about the hang-gliders? They hang on wings and then they glide down from the cliffs like birds. To make the gliders they had to study the birds' movements for many, many years just to get the right shape for the wings.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh, Jadurāṇī, how are you?
Jadurāṇī: Jaya, Prabhupāda.
Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, may I say something, add something to this idea that the so-called rigid flight is insecure? Therefore the rigid planes are insecure because they do not imitate nature, and that is why they have so many accidents with the planes. But these gliders are much safer because they are more like birds.
Prabhupāda: After all, imitation is imitation. Sometimes it is perfect imitation.... Perfect cannot be. But as far as possible. But imitation is there. And the material life is imitation. Because material life means we want to imitate God. That is material life. God is all-powerful; we want to become all-powerful. That is material life. And the struggle for existence. Because we cannot become God, it is impossible, but artificially, they are trying to become God.
Hari-śauri: In England they had a system, the gentry, when it was pheasant shooting season, they used to kill the pheasants and they would hang them up in the outhouses. And then, after a few days, it would begin to rot. And when they were able to pull the skin off just in one piece, when it was just hanging off, they could just pull it off, then it was good for eating. That's when they would eat the flesh.
Prabhupāda: Just see. And another, they are digging the pig? You said?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So then in terms of advancing in spiritual life, actually we can't say that the sanātana-dharma is fatalistic. That there is actually endeavor towards progress.
Prabhupāda: Fatalistic... I have given this example also. Just like a man is condemned by the law court to be hanged. Nobody can check it. Nobody can check. Even the same judge who has given this verdict, he cannot check. But if he begs for the mercy of the king, he can check it. He can go all above the law. Therefore, karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām (Bs. 5.54). In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said that destiny can be changed by Kṛṣṇa for His devotees. Otherwise it is not possible. If one is condemned to death, Kṛṣṇa can check it. Otherwise, it is falsehood when Kṛṣṇa.... Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66)," I shall give you protection from all reaction of sinful activities." Suppose you are to be killed by somebody on account of your sinful activity. Nobody can check it, ordinarily, but Kṛṣṇa can check it. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa's telling false, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi, "I shall give you protection." So therefore our business should be only to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. And if you artificially want to be more happy by economic development, that is not possible. That is not possible.
Hari-śauri: When it starts to fall apart, that's when they think it's the best. I think I mentioned before, in England, the gentry, the British gentry, when they used to go hunting, shooting pheasants and partridges, afterwards they would get the dead birds and hang them in a shed outside, and then after some days, when all the skin and feathers were literally falling off, that's when they would eat it. That's when it was considered rich.
Prabhupāda: There are so many kadarya things. In Burma, they have got a system, Burmese family. In the door, there is a pot, a big pot. So whatever animal dies, put it in there and cover it. So in this way, after some years, they're decomposed, and it becomes liquid, and then it is so decomposed that if you open it, within three miles they smell. So that is mature. Then they take out the liquid and keep it in bottles. That is called naphi. And they stock it, and when there is some feast at home they'll give little that naphi, and they'll relish it.
Prabhupāda: Why Kṛṣṇa has recommended go-rakṣya? He never said that other animal. If you are fond of eating flesh, you take other animals, not the cow. Give protection, take milk from it, and prepare nice preparations, that will be good for brain, for your mind. Apart from... There is no question of religious sentiment. From practical.
Rūpānuga: Just the medical point of view, it is right.
Prabhupāda: You see. But they are so fools, rascals, they'll not accept it. And they'll give example, "Christ ate fish" somewhere; therefore we have to maintain the slaughterhouse. Because Christ ate fish, therefore we have to maintain slaughterhouse. Give the dog a bad name and hang it. Huh? This is going on. So we have to make vigorous propaganda for all this foolishness. Mūḍho nābhijānāti loko mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. So we are giving the best civilization, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. With little patience and perseverance you work on it, people will take it. Because there is nothing adulteration; it is pure. Rest assured, if you follow the principles and push on according to the prescription I have given, it will be accepted. May take some time.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They have one slaughterhouse and just beside, I have seen, just beside there is dairy. So at night they bring the cows in to the dairy, milk them to the last drop, and then to the slaughterhouse and all night screaming. I heard because the Indian neighborhood was about five hundred yards from the slaughterhouse. Then in the morning you'd drive by and the carcasses are hanging up.
Prabhupāda: So you are drawing the last drop of milk from the cow and sending her to the slaughterhouse. Is that very good civilization?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very nice point. Then there's a part about the Kṛṣṇa cut. Says here, "Badge. The badge of the monks is the single lock that hangs from a rear of shaven head. As a precisely trimmed śikhā is a matter of pride, monks often cooperate in shaving one another. Hair is buzzed off by clipper (left side), leaving a bristly surface (center)"—shows the bristly surface.
Prabhupāda: He has taken photograph of it?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughter) Yes. "...which is lathered up and shaved with a safety razor (right side). Even more striking than their saffron dhotis and shawls is the ISKCON men's practice of shaving their heads with the exception of one long lock in the rear, known as the śikhā. The first reaction of the layman is "Why do they do it?" The next is "How do they do it?" The Hare Kṛṣṇaś themselves advance three different answers to the first question. Some say that in countries that have hot climates, the religious have always shaved their heads to insure cleanliness. A clean body reflects a pure spirit."
Prabhupāda: One letter should be written to him that "You have taken so much trouble to describe Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, so thank you for your patience. Now we shall request you to read our books and review it. That will be real presentation of the Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement. Now you have studied superficially, and if you seriously study our books, you'll get more knowledge and you'll be able to give description of the movement more definitely."
Indian man (3): That means the first thing is to accept Kṛṣṇa as God, and then...
Prabhupāda: Not blindly.
Indian man (3): Not blindly.
Prabhupāda: Not blindly. But you must know... Just like if you accept the government, and the government orders, "This man should be hanged," you have to accept it. You cannot protest that "The government has ordered this man should be hanged. It should be protested." And who will care for your protest? Government is government. You cannot criticize. You may criticize on account of your less intelligence, but government order is all. Is it not? If government orders that "This man should be hanged," can you say anything against it? It will not be accepted. Similarly, if you know that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, then as Arjuna said, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava (BG 10.14). Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitram (BG 10.12). Unless you understand Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's personality, you will try to weight the strength of His words, the value of His words. But if you understand other statement... Just like Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7), "I am the supreme authority." So if He is the supreme authority, then whatever He has said, it is all right. But if you have doubt about He's supreme authority, then you will find out His fault. That is the defect.
Bali-mardana: Some of the rich men, they buy a cabinet that their body is put into, and they hope that they will wake up in a thousand years.
Prabhupāda: Yes, hope there must be, otherwise how they are foolish? This is called..., what is called? Bakāṇḍo nyāya. Baka, the duck, and aṇḍa, the testicle. So the bull, he has a testicle hanging, and the baka is thinking it is a fish. (laughter) So he's going, he's... (laughter). This is called bakāṇḍo nyāya.
Hari-śauri: And as soon as they started to give up their culture in India, they're also dried up.
Prabhupāda: They'll dry. That is the nature's way. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Anyone detached from God consciousness, he has no qualification. Manorathena. Their only qualification is mental concoction. That's all. Just see, how this... In America, such a wretched man. Willfully. Willfully.
Devotee (1): They've become useless.
Prabhupāda: This is due to excessive meat-eating, intoxication, sex. This is the result.
Devotee (1): They've wasted their brains.
Hari-śauri: Also these bums that hang around the cities, they're all alcoholics.
Prabhupāda: That is the reason.
Devotee (3): That's one reason crime is so high is because of intoxication.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (3): Always increasing crime.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How seriously should they be punished?
Prabhupāda: That you have to consult śāstra. There is direction. It is... Practically it is the same. Just like Manu-saṁhitā, it says that if one is a murderer then he should be killed. Life for life. He should be hanged. That is the old system. The king used to kill a murderer. So that is almost the same punishment.
Prabhupāda: So we are working on that platform where the life is there. And people in general they are working on the platform of this body.
Interviewer: On the platform of, on the dead platform? You say people in general...
Prabhupāda: The body is dead. Body is dead. Just like your shirt. It is dead always. Either on your body or hanging on the hanger. Your shirt and coat, is it not?
Interviewer: My shirt and coat are dead?
Prabhupāda: Is it not dead?
Interviewer: Right.
Prabhupāda: Similarly...
Interviewer: But my body is not dead.
Prabhupāda: Body is not because the living force is there.
Prabhupāda: Human qualification there is no, otherwise how they are killing? Killing means they have no human qualification, animal qualification. I want you to eat, huh? You know that Aesop's fable story?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Funny story?
Prabhupāda: There was a lake. So one small lamb was drinking water on the other side, and this side another tiger. The tiger challenged that, "Why you are muddying the water." So he said, "Sir, I am here, long away, I am not muddying." So anyway, he picked up some quarrel and killed him. So the idea was to kill him, but he picked up some, find out some fault. So anyone finding out. This man who wants to kill somebody else, he's not man, he's animal. Give the dog a bad name and hang it. That English proverb? You try to discuss on this point, how people can refuse the proprietorship of God. That is a very good point for preaching. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam. Everything belongs to God. That's a fact. Sleeping? Meditating? Either sleeping or meditating, what is the real fact? Meditating or sleeping?
Devotee (2): Destiny means there is a controller.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but they cannot explain what is this controller; therefore they disbelieve. Just like yesterday we were discussing that atheist class, that they are by chance there was lusty desires and there was pregnancy and there will be child. So we say, "No. Daiva-netreṇa. These things have been arranged by superior authorities." This is destiny, that what is already arranged by superior authority, that is destiny. You cannot change it. A man is ordered to be hanged by court justice, you cannot change. He is to be hanged. And they will say, "By chance he will be hanged."
Jñānagamya: Sometimes something happens to interfere with that. He gets a reprieve from the governor, or the rope breaks, and they only hang him once.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but first thing is that if one is ordered to be hanged, he has to be hanged. Destined. But these people, they do not see who has ordered because they do not accept authority. They will say, "It is by chance." They have not seen who has ordered, who is that authority. They cannot explain; therefore they say "Chance."
Jñānagamya: They have no science of astrology, so they cannot understand the universe and how it's working.
Prabhupāda: Astrology... I don't think they believe in astrology. There is no question of astrology. We practically we see that one man ordered to be hanged by the justice, he has to be hanged. That is destiny. One has not seen who has ordered, but he sees that "This man is being hanged." He cannot explain; he says, "By chance." So whose explanation is right? The chance explanation or the destiny explanation—which is right?
Prabhupāda: So all directions are there in the śāstra, and the essence of all Vedic literature is the Bhagavad-gītā. So at the present moment, our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that it doesn't matter what kind of state it is, but it should follow the principle of yajña. Yajñārthe karmaṇa. Otherwise, we shall be responsible. Just like, for example, a military man, what is his business? His business is killing. So by the government order he is killing, and the more number of enemies he kills, he gets medal, reward. But the same man, if he kills one man, he'll be hanged—for his own sense gratification. He cannot argue that "In the military camp I have killed so many men and I was rewarded, and now I have killed one man and I am going to be hanged. Why?" The question may be raised. No foolish man will raise the question. That means that killing is under the superior order, and this killing is for your sense gratification. So if you do anything for our sense gratification then it will be stena eva sa ucyate (BG 3.12).
Prabhupāda: ...and he is such a big man that he goes above the ācāryas. Ati-buddhi. Ati-buddhi galaya dekhe. (?) If one is overintelligent, hang him. That is a Bengali saying. Ati-buddhi galaya dekhe (?). If one is unnecessarily overintelligent, just hang him with a rope in the neck. He is ati-buddhi. Anyway, he was intelligent to purchase.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Oh, you have taken so much trouble. Prasādam, some give it to... Jaya. A very big block of farms. What is the name of that...? Eh?
Indian men: Bechel (?).
Prabhupāda: Bechel (?). So we want so many men to live there nicely, to eat sumptuously, and preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I have seen while coming from Vṛndāvana to Delhi, hundreds and thousands of young men. They are going to the factories on cycle, coming from distant place, at least twenty miles, twenty-five miles, and it takes two hours to reach the factory or more than that. And there he works hard eight hours and then again goes back, two hours, three hours, on cycle. I do not know what kind of rest he takes. This is life. And if we request these young men that "You come here. You live here comfortably. You eat here sumptuously and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," they will not. Just see how unfortunate they are. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). This is Kali-yuga. All bad men, unfortunate and disturbed. This is the position. They will work so hard, they'll catch daily passenger trains, Calcutta, Bombay, I have seen. They are actually hanging, and some of them are falling down, lost life, and coming from hundred miles away. But still, if you ask him that "You come here. Live with us. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Even with your family you can come." We are doing that at Māyāpur. He will not. How strong sense gratification propensity is. This is position of Kali-yuga. They are making propaganda, ruṭi kāpar makān. So we are giving, "Come on, ruṭi, makān, kāpar, you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." "No. I want wine. I want meat. I want rundi (?)." This is going on. Simply they say, "Ruṭi, kāpar, makān." But no, they want wine, woman, and sense pleasure, that's all. Ruṭi, kāpar, makān is not difficult. You can get. But they want something more. You see how many advertisements for selling wine in your Hyderabad. Is that, ruṭi, kāpar, makān?
Prabhupāda: God says that you surrender." But you do not surrender. That is your foolishness.
Guest (2): (indistinct) ...must be punished.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Naturally. Suppose if there is some infectious disease, the doctor says, "Don't go there." And if you go there, you'll be infected. You'll suffer. How the doctor can protect you? Doctor's duty is to warn you not to go to that area, "It is now infected with smallpox." But in spite of doctor's instruction, if you go there and if you infect that disease and suffer, then it is your fault. When a man is hanged by the judgment of the court, do you think that the high-court judge is inimical to that person? He's giving judgment to other persons that "This one must make one lakh of rupees from that person." And next judgment, "This man must be hanged." Does it mean the high-court judge is partial? He's simply giving judgment on the merit of the particular case. So there is no argument that "Why God has created so many varieties?" God has not created. You have created. Man is the architect of his own fortune. Fortune and misfortune you have created. So we have to suffer or so-called enjoy. There is no enjoyment here. It is simply suffering. But because you are under māyā, you are thinking suffering as enjoying. Just like a hog is eating stool. Other man is becoming... "Very abominable!" Oh what nasty thing he is..." But he is enjoying. He is thinking, "I am enjoying the best food." I have seen in airplane. One Indian gentleman, he was eating the intestine of the hog. So it was horrible for me, but he was eating very nice. So in this way the world is going on. "One man's food is another man's poison." So similarly, we are creating our next birth according to our desire. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22).
Mahāṁśa: I knew people coming from Poona to Bombay to work.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Mahāṁśa: All the way from Poona.
Prabhupāda: The home attachment is so great. These Delhi passengers, they are coming, hanging, and there are so many accidents daily. And few hours he will live with wife. That is his home. And whole other, out of twenty-four hours, seventeen hours are outside, and maybe seven hours at home. But still, he'll come home. The home attachment is very big. Therefore we have to create attachment for this hari-saṅkīrtana. If you create that attachment, then they will give up home attachment, try life, to live here. Athāsaktiḥ. You have to train them in Kṛṣṇa consciousness in such a way.
Prabhupāda: And in Parliament it has been denied. Rather, Home Member said that "We have no information that they are CIA." Parliament challenged, "What steps you are going to take?" And "No step. There is no information." They are afraid of the American government because of this Bangladesh affair. And otherwise government appreciates this movement. But because the Americans are there they think, "Some may do something," in this way. Yes. But there is no such chance. They are all devotees. They have nothing to do...
Dr. Ramachandra: This is a purely religious movement.
Prabhupāda: That is right. They have nothing to do with politics. And if they found any politics, they can hang me. I shall go.
Indian man: I am the constant change, the process?
Prabhupāda: You are not changing.
Indian man: Body is changing.
Prabhupāda: Body is changing. This is to be understood.
Indian man: Then who am I? Question is still hanging.
Prabhupāda: That will come next. The first question is this.
Indian man: I am not body.
Prabhupāda: That's all. That is sufficient.
Indian man: Quite satisfying, I am not body.
Prabhupāda: That is self-realization.
Prabhupāda: You have, interpretation, you have to refer to the Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā says as soon as you accept interpretation it is lost.
Mr. Malhotra: Then the meaning is lost.
Prabhupāda: Bas. So under the circumstances... That means I am also foolish. Any rascal gives any interpretation—I accept. That is my foolishness. So why should I become foolish? Radhakrishnan may be very big man, but if he does something wrong, he will be hanged.
Prabhupāda: Tapasya means to rescue the soul from this material condition, yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet, to purify your existence. What is the impurification? Impurification is that the soul is subjected to repetition of birth and... That is impurification. That he does not know. So he is missing the goal of life, and he's thinking this temporary so-called happiness for twenty years, forty years, fifty years, or, utmost, hundred years, that is his ultimate. That is a misleading. He does not know the aim of life. He thinks this material enjoyment to make this body stout and strong and enjoy senses like the hogs. Therefore it has been (called) na arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye. The sewer hog, he is thinking, "I am eating stool. I am getting fatty. That is my life. And I am enjoying sex without any discrimination." No discrimination of sex, either mother or sister and daughter—it doesn't matter. This is hog's life. He does not know. As soon as he becomes fatty he'll be captured, and the bhangis will, what is called? Toast, make him a toast. In our country they do. In outside of the village they hang the pig and with fire, roast it. And he, it cries, "Kyaa, kyaa, kyaa." And it is roasted, and they enjoy. But that he does not know. He is getting very strong but he does not know that he's going to be roasted. Therefore he is misguided. He does not know nature's law.
Dr. Patel: Baroda Maharaj, when he, when he did not appear in horse riding test, (indistinct) but he did not want to start the qualification (indistinct) So he came. So Baroda (indistinct) Maharaj knew he has came. Baroda Maharaj was in England then. He called him (indistinct). The same thing as the Britishers did at Baroda. That is, Baroda Maharaj was appreciated.
Prabhupāda: No, he was a person to be appreciated. There is no doubt. He had so many qualifications. But he was also doing yoga practice. When he was put into... No, after getting released from jail, twelve years. He was to be hanged.
Dr. Patel: C.R. Das made a very good speech. I have read all about what he practicing yoga in jail when he was himself written when he came to the minister's court. He felt that everywhere was Kṛṣṇa. Everyone was... He was seeing Kṛṣṇa everywhere. That was his feeling. So he would not be punished by anybody. But God is everywhere. His brother was transported to the... He was to be hanged and then he was transported to (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: (indistinct). (break) This is the fact that yato mata tato patha? Whatever path you accept, that is all right? He said that. Do you think it is bona fide? Kṛṣṇa says mām ekam, and he approves anything.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: If I am in power, give the dog a bad name and hang it. Who is going to check me? The same story, the lion and the lamb? No? A lion was drinking water this side and one lamb was drinking water that side. So the lion saw it is very nice food. So he wanted to kill with some plea, "Oh, you are making my water muddy!" "Sir, I am here so far. How I can make your water muddy?" (laughs) In this way he picked up some quarrel and jumped over. So he's lion and he's a lamb. So it is no difficult for the lion to kill a lamb under some plea. "Might is right." There has been so much propaganda and CIA, this Communist propaganda, this Blitz propaganda. In Bengal there was heavy propaganda against our...
Rāmeśvara: That's the British propaganda, that they came to India and made India more civilized.
Prabhupāda: This is civilization, that running, congested, hanging on. These rascals...
Rāmeśvara: Their famous phrase was "The white man's burden."
Prabhupāda: Unless they made such propaganda, how they could stay? They must give some plea that "I am staying for their benefit." That was the propaganda all through. And any Indian who would agree to say in the League of Nations and when there is conference, "Yes, we are so much benefited," he would be made secretary, governor. The flatterer, he would be made governor.
Hari-śauri: We saw one man in the Rāmānuja camp, too. He hadn't sat down for eighteen years. He carried a small swing with him, so wherever he went, he would go underneath a tree and hang the swing and lean on it. And he'd not sat down for eighteen years. (laughter) He had bandages all over his legs.
Bhāgavata: They have concocted this. It is not written in Vedas anywhere.
Prabhupāda: No, there are. Hiraṇyakaśipu did it.
Bhāgavata: That is a Vedic...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But what did he gain?
Bhāgavata: He got this. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: What did he gain? Became a rākṣasa and was killed.
Gargamuni: People are taking the authority of the scientists more than the creator.
Prabhupāda: What is this scientist? The scientists are rascals. These are the proofs. They are trying to go to the moon planet, but they do not know what is this. So many stars are hanging on my head. What are they? They cannot give any perfect information. They do not know. Two things they do not know. What is the meaning of science, real two things. One thing, how life come into existence, and how this planetary system is existing. They do not know. What is value of their science? There are so many things they do not know.
Prabhupāda: . Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's statement is jīvake karaye gādhā. He's already an ass. He becomes a more ass, big ass. Anitya saṁsāre... More than. He's destined to change everything, anitya, everything nonpermanent, but he is illusioned—"Yes, we shall make it permanent." This is moha. Which he will never be able to do, he is expecting... "We shall do it." This is also called another logic, nyāya, bakāṇḍa-nyāya. You have seen bakāṇḍa-nyāya? Baka and aṇḍa. One bull is going and his testicle hanging, and another duck, he is thinking, "It is a fish. It will drop, and I shall take it." This is practical. This is psych... You'll see a bull is going on and testicle hanging, and another duck is going after him. From this baka the word baka has come. Sometimes we say baka. This bakāṇḍa-nyāya.
Gurukṛpā: They feel that if you are not... If you are inhibited in your sex life, if you only choose women, then you are not progressive. You must become liberated from these moral or, they call it, "hang-up" feeling. This is not correct. Now they drive their children to the homosex dance, the parents, and let the boy out, and he goes into the homosex dance. Only men allowed. They take them there.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Gurukṛpā: Yes. In Los Angeles. They have only for boys, young men, age seventeen, sixteen, eighteen, nine... Their parents take them, and they let them out of the car, and they pick them up later on in the night.
Prabhupāda: Advancement.
Gurukṛpā: Yes. Advancement of the pig.
Prabhupāda: It is horrible to hear even. Therefore para-upakāra. The rascals are less than the asses and dogs. Therefore to give them Kṛṣṇa is the best para-upakāra.
Hari-śauri: Everything. All the arguments you've been giving us, now this is a good opportunity to use them all.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like the judgment was given Shylock, the Jew. When he was persistent that "I shall take one pound flesh from the chest," no, he said, "No, I cannot touch that." Then the judgment was, "Yes, you can take, only one pound. If it is one hundredth part of an ounce, it is more, then you'll be hanged. Or even it is less, you'll be hanged. Exactly one pound you have."
Prabhupāda: Actually one who is serious going back to home, back to Godhead—for such person, one should be niṣkiñcana, no connection with these material woman and money. Niṣkiñcanasya. (break) But I am not collecting money for sense gratification. For preaching work. Kṛṣṇa-sambandhe... Kṛṣṇa sabaya yāhā haya anukula, viṣaya boliyā tāhā haya phul.(?) The anything which is favorable to my preaching work, that is not viṣaya. Ta phul.(?) Then that is mistake. Why the air is misty? That... (break) Similarly, you can kill. You have to see it, what for they are killing. Stalin was killing for his own sense gratification. He wanted to maintain himself in the position, and anyone going against him, he would kill. That was not for the citizens' benefit. For his own benefit. Therefore he's a criminal. Just like soldier is killing hundreds of thousands of other soldiers. He is being awarded, "Oh, you are brave." And as soon as he kills one man for his own—he is hanged. So we have to see what is the cause that Arjuna fought for Kṛṣṇa, he became a devotee. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si (BG 4.3). Very dear friend. What is the business? To kill. There are different.
Rādhā-vallabha: So English is first. 43,450,500 literatures. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Where is such publisher?
Rādhā-vallabha: That's one for every five people in America. And second is Spanish: 2,947,000. Third is German: 2,125,500. Then Japanese, I had to make a guess. I'm not sure, but this is pretty close: 2,125,000. Fifth is French: 1,670,000.
Prabhupāda: There should be... A big board should be hang.
Rāmeśvara: We have a big display of this for the Māyāpur exhibit. We made this up as a...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: Should we have karmī photographs in our magazines?
Rāmeśvara: What do you mean?
Brahmānanda: Like in the English issue they have three photographs of torture.
Prabhupāda: That is not good.
Rāmeśvara: Torture? What do you mean?
Brahmānanda: They show a man being burned by fire, a man being pulled his body apart, a man hanging.
Prabhupāda: No, that is not...
Brahmānanda: Three photographs.
Rāmeśvara: But not all karmī photographs are bad. Sometimes we use karmī...
Brahmānanda: And now our magazine has no pictures of Kṛṣṇa. The last English edition had not one picture of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That's not good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One big paṇḍita has been contacted, and he's very surrendered to Prabhupāda. He wants to help Prabhupāda and our movement to understand the meaning of the śāstras in regard to the layout of the universe, so that the planetary systems can be done in our planetarium.
Prabhupāda: This planetary system is rotating from east to west, and it is hanging like the chandelier, taking shelter of the polestar. That we can see every night. Now where is the situation, which planet, where is sun, where is moon—so that he has to assert.
Hari-śauri: They have unnecessarily complicated everything, and this has made it impossible to live.
Prabhupāda: Yajñād bhavati... Why you should go three hundred miles away from your home, hanging in the daily grinding, risking life? So much labor? It is not required.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So these people are not actually getting free of their sins unless they stop sinning.
Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of his preaching? They will continue sinful activities, and Jesus Christ will take contract for saving them. How nonsense idea this is! Bhavānanda, do you think it is good idea?
Bhavānanda: Not a good idea, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Nonsense rascals. These people should be immediately hanged. "Our religion is very good." What is that? "We cannot stop acting sinfully, and Christ has taken contract. He will save us."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rascals.
Prabhupāda: How rascaldom it is! Nāmno balād pāpa-buddhiḥ. Nāma-aparādha. "I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, so no sinful action will be." It is like that. That means "I will continue my sinful activities and become a Christian, become a Vaiṣṇava, become a chanter."
Prabhupāda: Whole Vṛndāvana is compact of sahajiyās. They'll... Our temple is there now. Here, this certification may be printed in a block letter, and you can, kept in our entrance of Vṛndāvana temple. People will read it. Is it not good?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Gargamuni: Can I get a block tomorrow and hang it up?
Girirāja: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, the judgment of high-court, that should be also printed.
Gargamuni: The chief justice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, the judgment from New York.
Prabhupāda: And respectable gentlemen will understand what is this temple. It is not this ordinary.
Girirāja: Very nice. Actually, about two years ago there was a propaganda in the West that if you are afraid of sinning, then it means that you don't have full faith in Jesus Christ. Because he has promised to accept your sinful reactions. So therefore if you sin, then it means that you have full faith that he will accept the reaction.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said those people should be hanged immediately.
Prabhupāda: When the Bible has said, that after death one goes to hell or heaven? If Jesus Christ has taken a contract, then where is the question of going to hell?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, that is for people who don't sign the contract with him. That is what they say. As long as you say that you accept Jesus, then you are going to heaven for sure.
Prabhupāda: So then Jesus Christ accepted sinful reaction of a certain class of men. He is not universal.
Girirāja: Their philosophy is to work hard and die.
Prabhupāda: That hog philosophy, which is forbidden. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān (SB 5.5.1). Why? Why you should work so hard? That I said, that Daily Messenger, in the pandal, hanging...
Girirāja: Well, I think after a few months. I mean, this is just preliminary planning. One thing is, he does have a lot of faith in your words. I mean, he doesn't understand very much about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but... Like he wanted to know what you thought was coming in the future, so I told him that you had predicted that the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement would become stronger and stronger and that people would again become God conscious and so on. And he was really hanging on each word. He was very concerned. So then I said...
Prabhupāda: No, no, mean... And who cares for Vinod Bhave? They are...
Prabhupāda: Mohitaṁ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam (BG 7.13). This picture is very nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where should it be hung?
Prabhupāda: Hung?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It would be nice if it could be hung where you can see it easily.
Prabhupāda: Just by the side, it will be placed?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think it would fit there. It could be hung, hung over here.
Upendra: When you take prasādam.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very dancing form.
Prabhupāda: Śyāmasundara. Tribhaṅga-murāri.
ePrabhupāda: Mohitaṁ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam (BG 7.13). This picture is very nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where should it be hung?
Prabhupāda: Hung?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It would be nice if it could be hung where you can see it easily.
Prabhupāda: Just by the side, it will be placed?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think it would fit there. It could be hung, hung over here.
Upendra: When you take prasādam.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very dancing form.
Prabhupāda: Śyāmasundara. Tribhaṅga-murāri.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because you present it so truthfully that they have to admit and look at themselves and admit, "Yes, you are right. We are like dogs, hogs, camels and asses."
Prabhupāda: I gave practical example, hanging in railway...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Train.
Prabhupāda: One gentleman came: "Sir, you are..." So he might be one of the hanging passengers.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) That was funny. When you said that, the Chief Minister was laughing. At that point he was smiling. Everyone in that crowd was thinking, "Yes. He's talking about me."
Prabhupāda: I would have been glad. Very nice foodstuff, very nice, clean, and he has got his fresh vegetables, like that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How old were you?
Prabhupāda: At that time I was ten years old. Or twelve years. Not more than twelve years. But I liked that place very much. They still presented the foodstuff, fresh. I have been many... Not many. In the village so tasteful, fresh fruit, fresh vegetables, and they cooked so nicely. Nice milk. Everything very nutritious. That life is gone. What is this nonsense life, hanging in the daily buses, outside. Kṛṣṇa advises to live village life, agriculture, and utilize time for understanding your spiritual life. That is... So we are trying to introduce this, this farm life. (break) Out of so many other living entities, he tried to give me trouble. How you can check?
Prabhupāda: So nasty. You come here. (break) Vivekananda, so on, so on, so on, so on... If I had been in political power, I would have killed.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hanged.
Prabhupāda: No, hanged. They are not guru. They are not missionaries. They do not know. They have no knowledge. And missionaries? You see? The so-called politicians, philosopher, religionists, rascals, distorting the meaning of Bhagavad-gītā. And yato mata tato patha. And "I like. Whatever I like, I can speak, and that is supported." What is this? Chaotic condition. There is no standard. We are giving the standard, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. And Gandhi said, "Oh, how can I stop cow-killing? It is their religion." Just see. Such a rascal. "My religion is to kill others, and it should be supported by the government." Such a foolish man, they are on the government power. Parīkṣit Mahārāja, did he consider that? "So you are killing cow? You must be killed." That's all. Life for life. "It is my religion, sir." "Then get out here! Get out of my kingdom! Perform your religion outside." This is king. This is government. He said like that, Kali. You know?
Girirāja: He has... Because we've seen so many difficulties. Nobody could see any solution, but...
Prabhupāda: That one Caitanya Mahāprabhu's devotee was ordered to be hanged.
Girirāja: I didn't know that.
Prabhupāda: Gopīnātha Paṭṭanāyaka.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: All the devotees approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu, thinking that "He must... The king will excuse him." He never agreed. "Oh, I cannot do that. If he has done something wrong, then let him..." Of course, he was saved and protected by Caitanya Mahāprabhu's good wish, but He never agreed. These are some of the examples that... Simply depend on Kṛṣṇa. But if they are actually respectful, we can ask them. There is... But if it is difficult job... Viṣayiṇāṁ sandarśanām atha yoṣit... (CC Madhya 11.8). We cannot keep so strictly, but these are the principles taught by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Now find out that Fifth Canto. So this planetary system is hanging.
Indian Astronomer: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākham (BG 15.1). Same thing is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Now, how it is hanging and where are different situation of the planets and plateaus and hills and..., so as far as the book is concerned, kindly make a diagram so that we shall execute.
Indian Astronomer: On your order, holy order, I will start on work immediately.
Prabhupāda: No, my order... It is for this purpose I sent him, so you can begin immediately or...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Surabhī has an office with all things ready, drawing board...
Prabhupāda: You can go to his office, can give him instruction how the planetary system is hanging. The polestar, dhruva-tārā, is the center, and it is moving. That at night you can see. It is moving.
Prabhupāda: ...and millions of Vaikuṇṭhalokas, planets, and the topmost planet is Goloka Vṛndāvana. This is the spiritual nature. This is material, within this universe, and that is spiritual. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ: (BG 8.20) "another nature, which is indestructible." This is the whole situation. Now, how you show it, that you think over. This is only fragmental part of material creation. And each universe is floating in the..., like a football. Football floats in the water. It is like that. And each universe, half filled up with water, Garbhodakaśāyī. And the planetary system is hanging on that half filled-up water.
Prabhupāda: By action and reaction it is improving. Kāma-haitukam. Just like a man, woman, all of a sudden meet and there is a child. This is their reasoning. There is no plan. There is no brain. Such huge thing, how it has come into existence? (aside:) You bring that water. Now you have to give some, some idea people can understand. It is not possible to give complete. But it is a fact. The whole planetary system is hanging downwards. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākham aśvatthaṁ prāhur avyayam (BG 15.1). That is a fact. It is hanging and moving. And moon is above the sun. They have never gone. Now they are exposing. "Moon walks."
Prabhupāda: In the ocean there are fishes. You cannot see them. Big fishes: (makes gulping sound). From the skeleton I saw in Calcutta Museum...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whale skeleton?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whales.
Prabhupāda: Whale or some fish skeleton. As big as this room, it was hanging. I think it is there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, in the Museum of Natural History in New York they have a whale that is at least twice the length of this room.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) What was his age?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayānanda was about thirty-eight or forty.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) I was very anxious to print my books. So he was the first one to come forward, a five thousand dollar check. (Hindi) What is this cloth is hanging?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says, "Welcome, Śrīla Prabhupāda."
Prabhupāda: Oh. Where is Gopāla?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He went back to Bombay.
Prabhupāda: This is not change? You are a young man; now you have become old. Then you have no eyes. You are blind. I was not a young man?
Devotee (3): But they will argue, "What is the necessary..."
Prabhupāda: What is the use of argument? You have to change. You are going to be hanged. There is no argument. You must be hanged.
Devotee (3): But why a dog's body?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, why a dog's body? We have seen that you became an old man from a young man, but we never saw a man become a dog.
Prabhupāda: So you do not... You live. You go along with him. You'll see. Change means that... That is their defect. The change... Change means you have to accept any change. You see or not see. Tathā dehāntaram. Deha, the body, will change. You have got eight millions bodies. It can change to any one. There is no question of seeing. The suggestion is that you have to change. Now, in which body you are going to change, that you cannot see. So how you claim that "I cannot see"? That you cannot... There will be change. So how the change will take? Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), by superior administration and by your karma.
Mr. Myer: She has got very bad time now. She has already paid for that. So she will be in jail very shortly, her son and both, her son and... Even her chief minister in Madras, all her people are going to go in jail now, all of them. All the... Everybody involved in her ministry.
Prabhupāda: His son should be hanged.
Prabhupāda: No. The whole siṁhāsana will move.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I've seen that in India. Moves slightly. Sometimes for festivals, can...?
Prabhupāda: There it can be done. Just like you have four rings, and hang it, and very slowly.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: After They're installed, can They still be taken for... Sometimes They have special festivals. Is that all right? Because They've always traveled. They're not like a marble Deity. It's different. (pause) Your translating work is becoming a very regular thing now in the afternoons. Everybody I write to, I tell them that you have doubled your translation work, keeping with the doubling of book distribution. We got quite an encouraging letter just now, a full report from Dhṛṣṭadyumna Mahārāja about all the different things in...
Prabhupāda: Get this fan.
Rāmeśvara: She is personally going to the minister and ordering him, "Now you give permission that this book be printed." Whatever... It is a monarchy. Whatever they want, it is arranged. So in this way they are helping us. She also came to Los Angeles temple for a visit and saw the doll museum. She liked that very, very much. She was very, very astonished at how devotional.
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Why not scratch hard?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why not scratch with nail?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Whole area.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whole area, the whole back.
Rāmeśvara: And she requested one painting from the Tenth Canto, which she wants to hang in the palace. And in this palace the rulers of all the countries of the world pass through as visitors. So she is hanging this painting of Kṛṣṇa stealing butter. (Prabhupāda laughs) Very big painting. So I brought the painting with me when I went to Tehran so they could display it.
Prabhupāda: Anyone can scratch very hard?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This has been given to the Shah of Iran, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Hari-śauri: To hang in their palace.
Prabhupāda: The Shah of Iran (Bengali) some connection (Bengali) Parivrājakācārya (Bengali)...
Rāmeśvara: This painting is Mother Yaśodā chasing Kṛṣṇa with a stick because He is stealing butter. (Godbrothers are laughing, saying "Oh" and "Hm" at each picture) This painting is the fruit vendor, aborigine, giving Kṛṣṇa all the fruits, and He is turning her basket of fruits into jewels.
Hari-śauri: These are wonderful.
Rāmeśvara: We showed this painting to the princess and told her that if you give something to Kṛṣṇa, He returns it millions of times. (laughter) She liked this. This is the cowherd boys sporting in the mouth of Aghāsura.
Prabhupāda: Very nice.
Viśvambhara: Prabhupāda is saying if one is ordered to hang, how can he say... I say, I tell Prabhupāda, "President has got these special powers."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What did Prabhupāda say?
Viśvambhara: What, yes?(?)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would you like to hear Girirāja's prayer?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Why kīrtana has stopped?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why kīrtana stopped?
Prabhupāda: Tired?
Upendra: No. They are hanging on for every word you say, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hanging?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were eager to hear your words.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Hm. (break) (Bengali)
| Page Title: | Hanged (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, MadhuGopaldas |
| Created: | 21 of Feb, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=110, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 110 |