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Grhastha (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 20, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Which minister?

Jayapatākā: The Ajit Panja. He's the health minister. So we didn't see him...

Bhavānanda: (break) ...that we must take drastic steps for curbing the population.

Prabhupāda: Why don't you become brahmacārī?

Hari-śauri: Too drastic.

Jayapatākā: We want to present that we are, by moral training, achieving that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are making them celibate. What is called? Celibacy.

Jayapatākā: Even our gṛhasthas, they are only having one or two children.

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: At least historically it be proved. (break) ...cause of envy of my Godbrothers. I was known. Although they knew that Prabhupāda liked me very much, because I am gṛhastha, I was known as pacā-gṛhastha. Pacā-gṛhastha means a rotten gṛhastha. And now they say, "This gṛhastha has come out more than us? What is this?" (break) Śrīdhara Mahārāja's chief disciple...?

Bhavānanda: Gaura.

Prabhupāda: He always used to say to Śrīdhara Mahārāja that "You are seeing Abhay Babu as gṛhastha, but he is more than many yogis." He was telling.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even before.

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: He always used to say to Śrīdhara Mahārāja that "You are seeing Abhay Babu as gṛhastha, but he is more than many yogis." He was telling.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even before.

Prabhupāda: When I was gṛhastha they were my tenant. So, and he used to say. And then...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He knew. He saw you in your activities.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he said that "Mahārāja, you are seeing he is gṛhastha. He is more than many yogis." He used to say, that boy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has good sentiment, then.

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, kibā vipra kibā śūdra nyāsī kene naya, yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya (CC Madhya 8.128). It doesn't matter whether one is gṛhastha or a sannyāsī. (Bengali) (break)...all big, big men, he was present. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, another twenty thousand dollars was transferred. (break)

Prabhupāda: He cannot complain. There is money; there is men; now you have to complete. You cannot say, "For this purpose, it..." No. (break) ...Mādhava Mahārāja, you can say that "Have you seen ever twenty thousand at a time?" And I am bringing daily twenty thousand. Twenty thousand dollars. Not money..., rupees, but dollars. "Have you seen twenty thousand dollars at a time?" (break) Detroit temple, you know? Jagadīśa? Are you going to negotiate.

Morning Walk -- February 5, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Without varṇāśrama-dharma there is no civilization. Yes. They are trying to abolish this under the name of "caste system." It is not caste system. Caste system, or whatever you call, there must be these four division. Not four, eight. This is general, that brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Then, according to the brahminical culture, the spiritual, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. And after sannyāsa, then spiritual life, complete, śuddha-sattva. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So you have to establish varṇāśrama. Varṇāśramācāra. Ācāra. Ācāra. Varṇāśrama ācāra. Yes. Because the aim is... Again we come to the... Just like state affairs going on, but ultimate aim is to keep the government satisfied. Then you'll get everything nicely. Similarly, the supreme government or supreme governor is God. That is your duty, to keep Him satisfied. Then you get all direction, all facilities and life. That is the aim. But these rascals, they do not know what is government or who is the governor.

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Frustrated? Everyone. Whether young or not, everyone is frustrated. He says that the desire in old man... It is expected because he has gone through the gṛhastha life. Gṛhastha life is a concession for sex life. That's all. It is not needed. But those who are unable to avoid it—"All right, have for some time. Then become sannyāsī." This is the process. It is not needed. So in old age, after going through these stages, brahmacārī is learning how to stop this sex life, and then, if one is still unable—"All right, take concession for twenty-five years. Then give up this habit. Then take sannyāsa." So that is the process, one who has gone through the stages, expected that he has no more... āra nārī bapa (?) "I have done..." But generally, those who are not trained up, their desire is not diminished. They have got the... That you see in your country, Western country. Seventy-five, eighty years old, they are going to the nightclub.

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: To become fixed, become sannyāsī, the other three processes are there, to become brahmacārī, to become gṛhastha, to become vānaprastha, stage by stage. But if one is able, he can take sannyāsa. The stages are there, but if one is very competent, he can be given sannyāsa. And that competency is also very simple. If you become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you can immediately become competent. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). As soon as you fully engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then immediately you become more than a sannyāsī.

Jayapatākā: Your Divine Grace is so merciful because the Western people, they are habituated to so many bad habits which weren't existed, existing in the Vedic time amongst the higher classes. Still, you are introducing all these things for them. Many times devotees, they don't take that seriously.

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Jayapatākā: I think this side's...

Prabhupāda: Hm ?

Jayapatākā: So gṛhastha life is Kṛṣṇa allowing us to steal kṣīrā?

Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes, kṣīrā-cora. The prostitute-hunter is hīrā-cora, and he's a kṣīrā-cora. That's all.

Hari-śauri: (break) ...sense gratification that comes from renouncing like that, that's like the Māyāvādīs.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh?

Hari-śauri: By artificial renouncing everything, they're actually simply another form of sense gratification.

Morning Walk -- March 9, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...take it rightly. Then we'll lay down the foundation. Something, anything.

Madhudviṣa: The subjects that we're going to be discussing today in the GBC meeting is about the role of sannyāsī and brahmacārī and gṛhastha in ISKCON. And in the Eighteenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, in one of your purports, you say that a sannyāsī should never discourage a young man from becoming, from getting married. But on the other hand, we have understood that a sannyāsī should encourage young men to remain brahmacārī. So it seems to me like there's some kind of a...

Prabhupāda: According to time, circumstances. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, niyataṁ kuru karma tvam: "Always be engaged in your prescribed work." And, at last, He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Now we have to adjust. That is not contradiction. That is suitable to the time and circumstance. Karma is also recommended in the Vedas. Karma-kāṇḍa. There are three divisions: karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kaṇḍa and upāsanā-kāṇḍa. Trayi. Therefore Veda is known as, what is called, trio. The trio word has come from "trayi."

Morning Walk -- March 10, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: ...telling that too much stricture on the gṛhasthas may cause some disturbance. Eh?

Madhudviṣa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So I think the gṛhastha themselves should form a small committee and define what they will do, instead of forcing something, because in this age, nobody can follow strictly all the stricture in the śāstras.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think that we formulated anything for them to do.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Morning Walk -- March 10, 1976, Mayapur:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Any of our resolutions, it doesn't say anything about what they should do. It simply says what should, how our society should be run, our temples. It doesn't state anything about how the gṛhasthas should live.

Prabhupāda: No... What? What, was your pro...?

Madhudviṣa: Well, last evening we were saying that sex life according to the regulative principles means sex life only when the guru tells the gṛhastha to have sex life. And what I said last night is that if that is the case, then there would be no more gṛhasthas in the society. They will not... They will not become gṛhasthas.

Prabhupāda: Be practical.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So that point they can discuss amongst themselves, but that doesn't have anything to do with our resolutions. Right?

Morning Walk -- March 10, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In other words, our resolutions are on another point, that as far as when they, when they have sex life and when they don't, they should have a committee and they can decide that. But... Resolutions we passed have nothing to do with that. Our resolutions had to do with if someone is not to be supported by the movement, things like this. Those things are a different matter. The actual way the gṛhasthas should live, that is their... They should decide that by committee.

Yaṣodānandana: There now should be a proposition that before they enter the gṛhastha āśrama, they should have a means of supporting themselves besides the living off the society.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was said...

Morning Walk -- March 10, 1976, Mayapur:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's why Prabhupāda corrected us.

Prabhupāda: So I think it may be further decided. Make a small committee of three or four gṛhasthas, and you define how you live.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, what about their relationship with the society? This point was to... I don't understand why that is being avoided. In other words, how they should live, that they should have a committee for, but the fact that the society cannot support them, that is not for them to decide. That is for the GBC to decide. That is my point.

Yaṣodānandana: I think that point, that's clear.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Morning Walk -- March 10, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: For example, there is, as we have been discussing, there is between the brahmacārīs and the gṛhasthas... The brahmacārīs have this tendency—at least, this is the attitude—towards renunciation. And so far we can see, a brahmacārī who gives up his brahmacārī life means he's more inclined towards the enjoying spirit, at least to some extent. So how do we deal with this situation?

Prabhupāda: You can... If you want to enjoy, who can stop you?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we cannot..., we cannot support it. We cannot support his enjoyment. That he should take on his own self to do.

Morning Walk -- March 10, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: They... According to different position and attitude, the four āśramas are there: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. This means that everyone is not on the equal platform. Different platform. But the whole idea is how to give up the propensity of enjoyment. That is wanted.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We find in the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam that Śukadeva Gosvāmī would approach the householders in the morning just so long as to give them a little bit of spiritual knowledge, and he would accept the offering of some milk. So the sannyāsīs and renunciates, generally, they wouldn't very much relish the association of householders because of this enjoying spirit and the association that it entails. So we're finding also within our society that those who are inclined towards remaining celibate, they're finding the association of persons even within our movement who have this enjoying spirit to be somewhat detrimental to their own spiritual life.

Guru-kṛpā: Gṛhe thāko vanete thāko...

Morning Walk -- March 10, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: I do not follow.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He's saying that sometimes the brahmacārīs, even the sannyāsīs, they may have a very strong aversion towards association with women and/or householder life, things of this nature. And sometimes the gṛhasthas will criticize the sannyāsīs and brahmacārīs that "This is fanaticism," or it's, to the other end, "It's just as bad as the enjoying spirit, because you're meditating on the same thing, but only you're averse to it." So what is the...? Bhāgavata dāsa's question is "What is the condition?" Is it better to be neutral or to be averse?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Neutral.

Morning Walk -- March 10, 1976, Mayapur:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So is it correct to say that if we're not Kṛṣṇa conscious, then if it's not the gṛhastha problem, it would be some other problem?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We'll find something or another to absorb our time with besides Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No, you should always remember that either gṛhastha or brahmacārī or sannyāsī, nobody can strictly follow all the rules and regulations of them. In the Kali-yuga it is not possible. So if I find simply fault with you, and if you find fault with me, then it will be factional, and our real business will be hampered. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended that hari-nāma, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, should be very rigidly performed, which is common for everyone: gṛhastha, vānaprastha or sannyāsī. They should always chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Then everything will be adjusted. Otherwise it is impossible to advance. We shall be complicated with the details only. This is called niyamāgrahaḥ. I think I have explained.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Bumblebee. He collects little honey here, little honey there, wherever.... And not one place so much honey. So this is called bahudaka. Not to collect lump sum, food, from anywhere. To any gṛhastha a sannyāsī can go: "Please give me a little piece of bread." So that is not difficult. "All right, take." Because many sannyāsī may come, so it is not burden, little piece. So as soon as it is sufficient piece, that's all. It is called bahudaka. Then, when he's further experienced, then preaching country to country, place to place, go on preaching. That is parivrājakācārya. And when he has sufficiently preached, then he can sit down anywhere. That is paramahaṁsa. (break) ...system. In every big temple there is shenai. All through the year, morning, night, not only temple, rich man's house. And they are so nice player that early in the morning, people, the resident, will rise by hearing the shenai. And at night they will go to bed and sleep hearing the shenai.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes, for the rascals. Otherwise they will pollute the innocent girls. The innocent girls.... That is the policy of the Western civilization, that "Let the karmīs enjoy new, new girls and be energetic to produce machine." This is the European civilization, American civilization. Because the karmīs, unless they have sufficient sex intercourse, they cannot work, so this is the policy: "Let all the girls remain open." They.... "Let them use and produce atomic bomb. Show your brain." The.... Just like the marriage.... According to Vedic civilization, marriage is allowed to the karmīs. It is not that marriage allowed to the sannyāsī or brahmacārī. The karmīs require sex. Therefore.... Why marriage is allowed to the gṛhastha? Why not to the brahmacārī, vānaprastha or sannyāsī? Why it is not recommended? Because the karmīs require that enlivenment. Therefore they are allowed to marry. So in the European civilization it is only karmīs. There is no question of brahmacārī, vānaprastha or sannyāsa. There is no such idea. Therefore they want new, new girls. And that they have kept, this artificial law.

Morning Walk -- March 21, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. He simply talks of big, big words. In the beginning, Prabhupāda had no committee, nothing of the sort. That he'll not admit, that he has no power to do so. He's simply thinks that he's very confidential son of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. That's his.... (break) ...nobody has seen his chief disciple? He lives in Calcutta.

Jayapatākā: Yeah, he's not actually a bābājī. He's gṛhastha.

Prabhupāda: Oh, but he lives like a bābājī dress.

Jayapatākā: I don't know anyone lives by bābājī... He wears dhotī.

Prabhupāda: What is his name?

Jayapatākā: Śacīnandana.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Oh, Śacīnandana. So he.... I have seen several times. He's like bābājī, but what he is?

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, it is the business of the government. Vaiṣṇava can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra anywhere. He doesn't require any nice park. Ahaituky apratihatā. For becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, for a serious person, there is no obstacle. Any condition he can do it. (break) ...why there is sannyāsī? In the Vedic civilization, ultimately sannyāsa. Why? That one must give up the intimate relationship with wife. This is the ultimate position. Brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgī-saṅgam.

Prabhupāda: That is recommended everywhere. Illicit or legal.... Mahāprabhu has said, asat eka strī-saṅgī: "Anyone who is attached to woman, he is asat." Bas. This is the whole process, how to become detached from the attraction of woman, dhīra. (break) Give up the connection with woman is recommended. So in our society it will be a good test. We are mixed up with men and women. If you in spite of this allurement, if you do not become attracted by woman, then you should know you are paramahaṁsa. Yes. You are worshipable. And this Bhāgavata-dharma is meant for the paramahaṁsas. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2).

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Guru-kṛpā: Yogi Bhajan.

Prabhupāda: So many. This tail, dog's tail. Either you become sannyāsī or gṛhastha or anything, the tail is this side. You may grease it as much as possible, but the whole tendency is sex, that's all, in different dresses only. The objective is sex. This is going on. Some of them are openly declaring that "I am for sex," and some of them showbottle. But the objective is sex. This is the whole world. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha (SB 7.9.45). And the sannyāsīs like Rajneesh, they are advocating, "This is life—sex. By sex indulgence you get salvation." These Brahma-kumārīs. Not brahmacārī but Brahma-kumārī. Kumārīs are available very easily. And they keep. And the rich men, they are supplied with nice, beautiful kumārīs. They pay money. This is going on. Brahma-kumārī. They enjoy and they invite the karmīs to enjoy and get money. Kumārī is there; money is there, that's all. Everywhere this is going on.

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: And you can disvertise(?) it from New Zealand or from Australia. There can be very peaceful condition of the whole world. Simply mismanaged by the rascal leaders. Otherwise, people can live very peacefully, eat sumptuously, save time, and there is no necessity of stopping the bare necessities of life. There is arrangement for eating, sleeping, sex life also. But not like fools and rascals. Like sane man. But this modern civilization, it is insane, crazy civilization. There is a little pleasure in sex life—simply sex life, increase sex life, spoiling everything. That is crazy. Eating-eat anything, any nonsense thing, and become a hog. Sleeping-oḥ, there is no limit, twenty-four hours sleeping if it is possible. Go on, this is going on. Eating, sleeping, mating. And defense—and discover atomic weapon, this weapon, that weapon, and kill innocent persons, unnecessarily, defense. This is going on. But everything can be used properly for peaceful condition, and when you become peaceful, no disturbance, then you can very happily chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and your life becomes successful. This is our program. We don't want to stop anything. How it can be stopped? Whatever is the bare neces.... Just like we have taken sannyāsa. What is that? "Oh, we have no sex life only. Otherwise, we are also eating, we are also sleeping." So that is also stopped in good old age. In old age, if a person like me, at the age of eighty years, if I would have shopped for sex life, does it look very good? Young men, they are allowed. That's all right. But a young..., old man is going to the club and spending for sex life so much money. Therefore younger generation, they're allowed gṛhastha life from twenty-five years to fifty years. That's all.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Householder can eat the whole world and sleep. (laughter) Because he is householder, he has got the concession. Everyone should do that. Householders are unable; that is their incapability. "Because I am householder, I have got the facility to have sex as many times and eat as much..." That is not householder. That is gṛhamedhī. There are two words: gṛhamedhī and gṛhastha. Gṛhastha is different from gṛhamedhī. Gṛhastha āśrama. Although he's householder, it is āśrama, only for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is gṛhastha. But gṛhamedhī cannot do that. (break) ...man has got the potency. Otherwise why they are offering...? Everyone has got the potency. We have to utilize it. Hare Kṛṣṇa. You understand English?

Indian (indistinct): Yes, Guruji.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Oh, thank you very much. (break) ...Bhagavad-gītā. Dharmāviruddho kāmo 'smi, "Sex life which is not against religious principles, I am that." Not that sex life, as soon as you like, sex. That is not gṛhastha. That is gṛhamedhī. Dharmāviruddha. Dharma-aviruddha means simply for begetting nice child you can have..., not for enjoyment. Putrārthe kriyate bhāryā. This is Vedic principle. Putraḥ-piṇḍa-prayojanam. A bhāryā, wife, is accepted only for having son. Not for any other purpose. Putraḥ-piṇḍa-prayojanam. This is material side, but still, it is religious. First education is brahmacārī, how to train him to avoid sex life. And still if he's not able, then he is allowed to become a gṛhastha, a little concession. Otherwise, the whole Vedic civilization is: how to avoid sex life. Brahmacārī—no sex life. Vānaprastha—no sex life. Sannyāsa—no sex life. Only gṛhastha, under control. That is gṛhastha. Gṛhastha does not mean one who is doing everything whimsically on account of getting this concession.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: He's not gṛhastha, he's gṛhamedhī. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). Śrotavyādīni rājendra nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ, apaśyatām ātma-tattvam... (SB 2.1.2). Gṛhamedhī means he does not know what is spiritual life. That is gṛhamedhī. And gṛhastha means he knows what is spiritual life, and he lives on that status. That is gṛhastha. Gṛhamedhī's definition is.... Everything is there in the śāstra. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam. They do not know what is the aim of life. It is like something, something like cats and dogs. They do not know. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). (break) So he'll speak to you. You know English, you can read books.

Fijian (indistinct): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Very good idea.... (break) ...Kṛṣṇa, and everything will be all right. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has blessed: ihā haite sarva-siddhi haibe tomāra. "Every perfection you'll get by chanting." That is His blessing.

Indian: (Hindi) (break)

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- Honolulu, May 20, 1976 :

Prabhupāda: ...and two sides, his two wives. Not that Caitanya Mahāprabhu is worshiped as a sannyāsī.

Devotee (2): Gṛhastha.

Prabhupāda: Gṛhastha. Gṛhastha with two wives, he must enjoy. This is our process. Why you will see Him as a sannyāsī? Therefore Nityānanda prabhu broke (daṇḍa?). They want..., do not want to see Him as sannyāsī, (indistinct) renounce. Why He should be renounced? He is gṛhastha. "Oh, well." God must enjoy... (break)

Devotee (5): I'm sorry it took so long, but I had a little trouble getting through to them.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Jayādvaita: Their only objection, when we present that there's brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa, then they become automatically hostile, because they understand that we're against sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sense gratification is animal civilization. And sense control is human civ.... Sense gratification is not human society. Sense gratification is not human civilization. That they do not know. Their central point is sense gratification. That is the defect. They are running on an animal civilization as human civilization. That is the defect. Sense gratification is animal civilization. And actually they are animals. If they can kill their own child, it is animal. Just like cats, dogs, they kill their own child. What is that? It is animal civilization. Who was talking that child is put into the, what is that, left luggage?

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Not like.... Just like in college, school, some student making rapid progress, some of them are a little slow. That does not mean that he should he rejected. He should be given chance. But if he follows the regulative principles, there is no chance of falling down. The regulative principle is that you refrain from these activities: illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That will make him perfect. Very easy. We don't say no sex; we say illicit sex. So if you want sex, you become a gentleman, marry and live like a gentleman. Why illicit sex? There are many gṛhastha devotee. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu's direct associate, Nityānanda, He was a gṛhastha. Caitanya Mahāprabhu Himself was a gṛhastha. He married twice. First wife died, he married second wife. So gṛhastha is not rejected. Simply it is not that simply sannyāsīs will go back to home. No. Everyone can go. Striyaḥ śūdrās tathā vaiśyāḥ. They can go also.

Morning Walk -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: ...objection of Professor O'Connell?

Satsvarūpa: He said that we don't, we deny expression of love through the body. Just like the gṛhasthas are not allowed, except to have children, to have sex, and brahmacārīs, not at all. So by denying, these are natural ways to express love, he says, and by denying them, the people in this movement become somewhat cold and don't have the experience of love.

Prabhupāda: Love? This is love or lust?

Satsvarūpa: He says there's a definite connection between the flesh and love, and you can't deny it, he said. I argued with him, but that was his viewpoint, that love is expressed through the flesh.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Mūḍha. (Sanskrit) What is that verse? Everyone is working under illusion of māyā, until he comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Indian man (5): Śrīla Prabhupāda, is it better for gṛhasthas to be self-supporting and living outside the temple? Like somebody working all day and following the regulative principles?

Prabhupāda: Temple is meant for rendering service to the Lord. So if anyone is rendering service to the Lord, he can live. But not for sense gratification. Those gṛhasthas who still have desire for sense gratification, they may live outside.

Indian man (5): What about the gṛhastha's duty toward his family, like looking after his family and children? In India, like when you have a daughter you have to get her married and...

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Pradyumna: Liṅgam evāśrama-khyātāv.

Prabhupāda: Liṅgam evāśrama-khyātāv. There are āśramas, brahmacārī, sannyāsī, gṛhastha. So they have got different dresses. So Kali-yuga, simply by dress, he becomes a brahmacārī, he become a gṛhastha, he becomes a sannyāsī, simply by dress. What he is acting, nobody cares, that's all. Then?

Pradyumna: Liṅgam, eva.

Prabhupāda: Liṅgam means the external feature. This is the dress of a sannyāsī, this is the dress of a gṛhastha. Just like daṇḍa. Daṇḍa is the symptom that he is a sannyāsī. Then?

Pradyumna: Liṅgam evāśrama-khyātāv anyonyāpatti-kāraṇam.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Simply say what Kṛṣṇa says. Why do you speak all other nonsense things? You immediately become the dearmost friend of Kṛṣṇa. And if you manufacture, then you are a rascal. Why shall I accept a rascal? We shall accept the dearmost friend of Kṛṣṇa as guru. That is wanted. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, when He was asked by a gṛhastha devotee what should be the behavior of a Vaiṣṇava, He immediately said asat-saṅga tyāga, ei vaiṣṇava ācāra: (CC Madhya 22.87) "Give up the company of all rascals, asat." Asat means those who are rascals. That is Vaiṣṇava. Do not mix with all rascals, asat. Now how shall I know who is rascal and who is not a (rascal)? Asat eka 'strī-saṅgī—-eka asādhu, kṛṣṇa-bhakta āra. One who is too much attached with woman, he is rascal. Another rascal, who is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. So we have got everything test tube. Put the test tube and you understand. If one is strī-saṅgī... Strī-saṅgī means not only the man, the man or woman, one who are very much sexually attached, he is a rascal. One should give up his company.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There is the question. (devotees laugh) but their reality is dog's race, and our reality is to advance in self-realization, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is difference. Therefore karmīs have been described as mūḍha, asses. Asses. And asses, why the example is given to the asses? Because the ass works very hard. It loads on the back tons of cloth of the washerman, and the washerman in return gives him little morsel of grass, and he stands at the door of the washerman, eats the grass, again loading. But he has no sense that "If I go out of these clutches of washerman I can get grass anywhere. Why I am loading so much?" The karmīs are like that. They're busy in the office, very busy. If you want to see him, "I am very busy now." (laughter) So what is your result of busy? "Now, I take two pieces of toast and one cup of tea. That's all." (laughter) And for this purpose you are so busy? He does not know why he's busy. Because in the books he's finding, "Now, the balance was one thousand million dollars, now it has become two thousand," that his satisfaction. But he will eat two pieces of bread and one cup of tea. When it was one million dollars, when it was two million dollars. But still he'll work hard. This is called karmī. Asses. Work like asses, without any aim of life. This is asses. Mūḍha. But Vedic civilization is different. The accusation is not correct. They are not lazy. They are busy for higher subject matter. And that busy-ness is so important that Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "Beginning from the childhood," kaumāra ācaret prājño (SB 7.6.1). Not lose a second time. So that is Vedic civilization. But these asses, they do not see that "These men are working like us, like dogs and asses. So they are escaping." Yes, escaping your fruitless endeavor. So the Vedic civilization was meant for self-realization. Vedic civilization begins from the varṇāśrama system. Varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān viṣṇur ārādhyate (CC Madhya 8.58). How to realize Viṣṇu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore the system is varṇāśrama. In another place it is said, tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer (SB 1.5.17). The varṇāśrama means there is division: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So He had to go. Although He was, His father was Nanda Mahārāja, a village vaiśya king, and Kṛṣṇa was Personality of Godhead, but He could not deny. He had to go. Nicavat. Just like menial servant. That is called brahmacārī. This is tapasya. So tapasya is so essential that one has to do it. There is no question of alternative. Then brahmacārī, then.... If he marries, then gṛhastha. That is also tapasya. He cannot have sex life whenever he likes. No. The śāstra says, "You must have sex life like this: once in a month and only for begetting children." So that is also tapasya. They do not follow, people do not follow any tapasya at the present moment. But human life is meant for tapasya, regulative principles. Even in ordinary life.... Just like you are driving your car, you are going to some urgent business, and you saw the red light. You have to stop. You cannot say, "I have to leave by this time. I must go." No.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: "I am Bhagavān, I am God." So that attitude will not help to understand. (Prabhupāda converses in Hindi with an Indian lady about how one does not have to renounce family life to understand Kṛṣṇa.) He says paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). He understands perfectly. There is no question of gṛhastha or sannyāsī. It is a question of understanding. And Arjuna is gṛhastha, politician, fighter, and still he is selected to understand Bhagavad-gītā. So gṛhastha. (Hindi) ...in gṛhastha life or sannyāsī, Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says like that, kibā vipra kibā śūdra nyāsī kene naya. (Hindi) I shall speak in English so that others.... Kibā vipra, whether one is a brāhmaṇa, kibā śūdra, or whether he is a śūdra, nyāsī kene naya, or whether he is a sannyāsī. That means whether he is a gṛhastha or brāhmaṇa, or.... There are eight varṇāśrama—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, whatever he may be, out of these eight categories.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So gṛhastha. (Hindi) ...in gṛhastha life or sannyāsī, Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says like that, :kibā vipra kibā śūdra nyāsī kene naya. (Hindi) I shall speak in English so that others.... Kibā vipra, whether one is a brāhmaṇa, kibā śūdra, or whether he is a śūdra, nyāsī kene naya, or whether he is a sannyāsī. That means whether he is a gṛhastha or brāhmaṇa, or.... There are eight varṇāśrama—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, whatever he may be, out of these eight categories.

kibā vipra kibā śūdra nyāsī kene naya
yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, sei 'guru' haya
(CC Madhya 8.128)

Anyone who understands Kṛṣṇa perfectly, he is guru. Just like Arjuna is our guru, but he's a gṛhastha, he's a soldier, he's a kṣatriya. He's neither brāhmaṇa nor sannyāsī nor Vedantist, nothing of the sort. But he knows Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he is guru. So gṛhastha (Hindi). Śravaṇam, this is the first step of bhakti. Hear about Kṛṣṇa from the right source. Otherwise you will be misguided. Therefore Kṛṣṇa recommends, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). You have to go to a person where you can surrender. (Hindi)

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā
varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ
svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya
saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam
(SB 1.2.13)

Everyone is engaged in his occupational duties. Everyone is engaged. Generally according to Vedic civilization, the society is divided into eight divisions. Varṇāśrama-dharma it is called-four varṇas and four āśramas. Materially, four varṇas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And spiritually, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. These eight divisions. So according to these eight divisions, everyone has an occupational duty. So what is the duty and how the duty is perfected? That is hari-toṣaṇam, to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That people do not know. Especially at the present moment, they do not know who is Hari and they do not know how to please Him. That is the defect of the modern civilization, that they do not care to know who is God and how to satisfy Him. That is the defect. The life is meant for, human life, for satisfying God. That is going on under religious system, and the Vedic civilization is called varṇāśrama-dharma.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: This is karma. Karma means according to that division, that brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. Karma means activity. There must be some prescribed activity. Just like you are professor, you have got your prescribed activities. He's the minister of ambassador's, he has got prescribed activities. So everyone has got prescribed activities in whatever position he is, but what is the standard of success, that I have done my duties, prescribed duties properly? What is that standard? The standard is given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam: (SB 1.2.13) whether you have satisfied the Supreme Personality of Godhead by your duty. Then it is success.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: They should be trained up. Therefore Vedic civilization is training. Some section of the people, they should be very intellectuals, brain, just like to maintain this body we require first of all the brain. If the brain is not order, then other parts, they may be there, but they are also useless. So similarly, in the society, some intellectuals should be maintained. They are called brāhmaṇas, and some of the brāhmaṇas, they are sannyāsīs. They are simply meant for giving good instruction. They should personally become very good and intellectual, and they should give instruction to other people what is the value of life, how to live. This is one section. They should be free from the anxiety of maintaining themselves. The society should treat them as children and give them all necessities, bare necessities, not they are meant for living very luxuriously. No. Simple living. Then the next class, kṣatriyas, the politicians, administrators, they are also required to give protection to the people from injury. Kṣatriya, kṣat means injury, and trāyate, "one who saves people from injury." It is kṣatriya's duty. So kṣatriya should protect all the living entities, including the animals. They are also subjects. So the first, intellectual brāhmaṇas, then kṣatriya. Then vaiśyas, their business is to produce food. Food production you can do by agriculture, kṛṣi, and by giving protection to the cows. If you get sufficient food grains, like rice, wheat, pulses, and sufficient milk—from milk you get yogurt, butter, ghee—then your all food problem is solved. You must eat. You must eat, you must live properly. So this first, second, third, the intellectual class, the administrative class, and the productive class, these three classes must be there in the society. And those who cannot be grouped either of these three classes, they should generally help as workers. They are called śūdras. So the workers means... Suppose you require a sitting place: the carpenter is there. Suppose you require a knife: so the blacksmith is there. You require clothing: the weaver is there. In this way, four classes of men. First class, second class, third class, or the intellectuals, the administrators, the producers and the general workers. This is Vedic system of division. Brāhmaṇa... This is for our living condition, and then human life especially meant for spiritual realization, self-realization. For that purpose, again, another four divisions. Generally, the brahmacārī, student life; gṛhastha, married life; vānaprastha, retired life; and sannyāsa, renounced life.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say it is mentioned in the śāstra, brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). If you want to be a lawyer, you must know the law. Without knowing the law, how you become a lawyer? Without knowing the engineering art, how you become engineer? So either you become a brahmacārī, gṛhastha or vānaprastha, sannyāsī, or anything, you must know what you are meant for. Without knowing, how you can become brahmacārī?

Guest (3): I must know what I am meant for.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Then you have to go to the... Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Just like we were discussing Sanātana Gosvāmī, he has gone to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he said, "Sir, You have brought me from the entanglement of family life. Now tell me what is my duty." So that discussion is going on. So you should approach guru and take instruction from him what is, how to act. If you want to act as a brahmacārī, he'll give you direction, "You do this." If you want to act as a gṛhastha, he'll give you direction, "You do like this." That is wanted. The guru, the parents, the government, they should guide.

Guest (3): But it says that if I follow another person's occupation, even if I do it better than my own occupation, that is not as good as following what I ought to be doing.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Antagonistic?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Opposed.

Prabhupāda: That is not the remedy, because afterwards he give up and become a sannyāsī, and then again become this gṛhastha. This is not good. Opposition is already there, especially in the Western countries; they will never agree. So why do you marry? That is understood. Huh? Both the boys and girls trained in such a way that there must be opposition. So that is expected, that in your married life there will be opposition. So why do you marry?

Hari-śauri: He's talking about if you're married before you come to the movement and one person wants to join the movement and the other person is not very agreeable.

Room Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Sthāne sthitāḥ... That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's recommendation. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. You remain your place, but engage your body, tanu, vāk, your words, and mind. Tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. Engage all these things for Kṛṣṇa. So tanu means senses. You hear about Kṛṣṇa and act for Kṛṣṇa. Then vāk, automatically, words, and mind also. If you hear of Kṛṣṇa, you'll think of Him. In this way there is no need of changing the place, Sthāne sthitāḥ. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ, prāyaśo 'jita jito 'py asi: "My Lord, You are Ajita, nobody can conquer You. But this person who has engaged his body, mind and words for Your service, he can conquer You." Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. This was spoken by Lord Brahmā, that there is no question of changing position. Caitanya Mahāprabhu never says so, neither śāstras. But in a regulative way there are steps, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. But on the transcendental platform these things are useless. Simply engage in the service of the Lord. That is mukti.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Just like... These are all discussed in the Bhagavad-gītā, what kind of social arrangement should be. That... It is called varṇāśrama-dharma. A brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha—these are different groups, and if they are favorably trained up then spiritual understanding becomes very easy.

Interviewer: Can you tell me a little bit about the future direction of the movement, how you plan to expand.

Prabhupāda: That is... That is going on already. Just like these boys, they did not know about Kṛṣṇa some years ago, but they are taking seriously. The same process, if it is continued, then people will take.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Real Vedic principle is called varṇāśrama. Observing the principle of four varṇas. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya. It is a very long science. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. This is called varṇa. And brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. This is called āśrama. So the Vedic civilization is called varṇāśrama-dharma, not Hindu dharma. This is later contribution of the so-called scholars.

Interviewer: Well ah, I thank you very much for your time, your Grace, and I'm glad I finally got acquainted with you. I missed you in Brooklyn.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: Yesterday in my talks with your disciples I gathered that you have at least three of the āśrama-dharmas in practice: brahmacarya, gṛhastha, and sannyāsa. Did you do this to suggest that your movement does not involve renunciation in the Western sense, in which they understand it, asceticism only, to retreat, to withdraw from society, to form a different, small spiritual community or fraternity, not interacting with the rest of society, not influencing society, not being influenced by society? In other words, was it your aim to suggest that the daily life of ordinary people can be built on the foundations of your philosophy?

Prabhupāda: The thing is that human life, the system of society should be divided... Just like you are journalist, so you are not motor mechanics. But there is necessity of motor mechanics also and the journalist also. Is it not?

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: And you are journalist, you are not expected to become a motor mechanic or a medical man. But your function is also required in the society. Similarly, the Vedic society was divided into different sections. That is called varṇāśrama-four varṇas, four āśramas. That is very scientific. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement includes this system of division of society. It is perfect society. Therefore we are trying to introduce the varṇāśrama system, although it is very difficult nowadays. But if one becomes a devotee, which is above varṇāśrama-dharma, then the purpose is solved. In this age, although varṇāśrama-dharma is very scientific, and Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement includes this, but we are mostly trying to get to the topmost part of varṇāśrama, sannyāsa, or above that. That means Vaiṣṇava. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26).

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

Pradyumna: That's his place, Puruṣottama Gosāi.

Gurudāsa: He's not a sannyāsī.

Prabhupāda: He's not sannyāsī, he is householder.

Jayatīrtha: He's married man.

George Harrison: Yes, he had.... His son lived there.

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

George Harrison: But maybe he's taken, I don't know, I thought he had a daṇḍa, one of those staffs. I saw the little temple in the garden, Kṛṣṇa and Rādhā, where they stay in bed. It's like a bed like this. You know the one?

Pradyumna: Nidhuvana Mandir.

Prabhupāda: Nidhuvana.

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: "A brahmacārī, or one who has not accepted the grhastha āśrama (family life), must rigidly avoid talking with women or about women, for the senses are so powerful that they may agitate even the mind of a sannyāsī, a member of the renounced order of life."

keśa-prasādhanonmarda-
snapanābhyañjanādikam
guru-strībhir yuvatibhiḥ
kārayen nātmano yuvā

"If the wife of the spiritual master is young, a young brahmacārī should not allow her to care for his hair, massage his body with oil, or bathe him with affection like a mother."

nanvagniḥ pramadā nāma
ghṛta-kumbha-samaḥ pumān
sutām api raho jahyād
anyadā yāvad-artha-kṛt

"Woman is compared to fire, and man is compared to a butter pot. Therefore a man should avoid associating even with his own daughter in a secluded place. Similarly, he should also avoid association with other women. One should associate with women only for important business and not otherwise."

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: "All the rules and regulations apply equally to the householder and the sannyāsī, the member of the renounced order of life. The grhastha, however, is given permission by the spiritual master to indulge in sex during the period favorable for procreation."

añjanābhyañjanonmarda-
stry-avalekhāmiṣaṁ madhu
srag-gandha-lepālankārāṁs
trajeyur ye bṛhad-vratāḥ

"Brahmacārīs or grhasthas who have taken the vow of celibacy as described above should not indulge in the following: applying powder or ointment to the eyes, massaging the head with oil, massaging the body with the hands, seeing a woman or painting a woman's picture, eating meat, drinking wine, decorating the body with flower garlands, smearing scented ointment on the body, or decorating the body with ornaments. These they should give up."

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Building is very big?

Bhagavān: Yes. Nice building.

Woman devotee (1): There's two buildings, one for the gṛhasthas behind the temple, and then the āśrama for the brahmacārīs.

Prabhupāda: Rented or purchased?

Woman devotee (1): We own the gṛhastha āśrama, and the temple is rented. It's to our advantage to rent it, for some reason, so they are renting it.

Hari-śauri: You were thinking about walking? It's about 6:15, so this would be a good time if you want to go down.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa has given us many nice places. People can live very comfortably. There will be no scarcity. Cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness very seriously. That is wanted. Therefore in this old age I am struggling so much to see that things are going on nicely. So far I have seen, it is going on nice. But maybe the management is lacking. It may be the māyā is very strong. So be careful. All, you are all old students, and try to organize more and more solidly. The children should be taken, you can give lectures to the mothers, that children should be taken care of. They are future hopes. Child is the father of man. They say that we escape. What we are escaping? We have got all types of social society. There is gṛhastha, there is sannyāsī, there is brahmacārī. Whichever position is suitable, you accept and keep yourself sincere, that's all. Unnatural there is nothing. Is there anything unnatural? And if they think that we're prohibiting this meat-eating, this is unnatural, that we cannot. That is not unnatural, that is natural.

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: My mother used to make puffed rice at home. So there is special rice available for making puffed rice. Either you can prepare at home or you can purchase in the market, special rice. So she was preparing nice puffed rice, very, very nice. In a sand pot. My mother was always engaged in making some food preparation. Some pickle, some chutney, and this puffed rice, or something else, something else, something else. Besides cooking for the family, she was being assisted by my sisters. Always palatable foodstuff. So many guests were there, and if son-in-law would come, they would specially prepare food for him. To receive guests, give them nice food to eat, prepare nice food for the family, this is the Indian pleasure. They are not very much, nowadays, for upkeep of the home, very... That, in their own way, they keep it very nicely. Every utensils, very cleansed, they are kept ready for use, some cloth. If you go in a poor man's home, but you'll find everything very neat and clean. Ask these gṛhasthas to keep their home very neat and clean. Are they keeping?

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: It is better than USA. You were getting six hundred there?

Dayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So you are getting more? Why Gargamuni advised you to give up? I chastised him, "Why you have given him such advice? He's a gṛhastha, he must have some money. He has to take care of the children." Anyway, you have got better job now and better service also. Kṛṣṇa has awarded you for your service. Stick to it. Don't... If you like to serve here, you can be permanently settled. No, what is their rules?

Dayānanda: It is quite easy, because they need foreigners to come and work here.

Prabhupāda: So that is very, very good.

Dayānanda: So they give visas very easily for working.

Morning Walk -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That is generally done. Wife increases the responsibility. Strī-vistāra. But still one has to maintain wife. A brahmacārī has no responsibility. His only responsibility is to serve Kṛṣṇa. But a gṛhastha has many responsibilities. "There is the children, I have to give them education, see that they're well situated."

Ātreya Ṛṣi: A brahmacārī life. A devotee who has not had experience with the responsibility...

Prabhupāda: No, no, responsible... He has no, this material responsibility.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: But he has responsibility towards Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Morning Walk -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: No, no, responsible... He has no, this material responsibility.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: But he has responsibility towards Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: So he should know about responsibility, he should have experience.

Prabhupāda: Real business of human life is to take responsibility of spiritual advancement. So if one remain brahmacārī, he has no disturbance in that responsibility. But if he becomes a gṛhastha, that disturbance is there. You cannot take wholeheartedly the spiritual responsibility. (end)

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: We are. Our society, it is not that we are simply sannyāsīs. We have got brahmacārīs, we have got gṛhasthas. So gṛhasthas should be provided with some profession, business, so that they can earn very nicely. That is good idea.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He has so much propensity to become engaged in these things, I have the propensity, all the devotees have the propensity. We can...

Prabhupāda: So you make your formula, I mean to say, plan and scheme. So far how to do it, that instruction I give.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Now in this house you will see, this house, the plan is that the house, the first floor will be kitchen, restaurant and a store. A little section for store. Store will have Your Divine Grace's books, records, tapes, japa-mālā and some sweets, prasādam that is made to go, to sell.

Prabhupāda: Who made sandeśa? It was very nice.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Unless one is put into practice, it is not possible. That is Vedic culture. From the beginning of life students were sent to gurukula for practicing how to become brahmacārī. That training (indistinct). Then they are trained as gṛhastha, then vānaprastha, and ultimately sannyāsa, completely renounced. Immediately, a person cannot be renounced, therefore gradually, step by step. So unless there is proper training... Now just like we are selling millions copies of these books, they are reading, and how many of them coming forward? So it requires training. Training is essential to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Guest (5): I would rather request that you direct your efforts... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...guru.

Room Conversation -- August 20, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Say ten rooms.

Saurabha: Ten rooms.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The gṛhasthas from Bombay could be moved over there.

Prabhupāda: No, gṛhasthas can live, go to the farm.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they can go from Bombay to there. They can cultivate our farm.

Saurabha: For sixty thousand rupees we can build sufficient accommodation, and then the rest we need...

Prabhupāda: So we can spend up to one lakh and make more rooms.

Saurabha: Yes. And when you come there the house is sufficient for you to stay. It's very nice. Big rooms.

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Varṇāśramācāra-vatā. The varṇa and āśrama I've already explained. Just like for maintenance of the whole body there are different parts: the brain, the arm, the belly, and the leg. Similarly, varṇāśrama means the head—brāhmaṇa; the arms—kṣatriya; the belly—vaiśya; and the leg—śūdra. So by nature these divisions are there. Varṇa, four varṇas and four āśramas. Four varṇas means social divisions, and four āśrama, spiritual division. So apart from spiritual division, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa, the social division must be observed. The brain must be there. Brāhmaṇa. Everything must be there. Not only the brain. The arms also required—military department or kṣatriya department. Yuddhe cāpy apalayanam(?). The kṣatriyas are so brave, they don't go away from fighting field, battlefield. Just like Arjuna was trying to become nonviolent.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, Bhagavān concludes at the end, "You rascal, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66)." This is dharma. To surrender to the Lord. That is dharma. In another place, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Without this, all cheating. If there is no bhakti, surrender to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, all these kind of dharmas, they're all cheating. Therefore in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). On this, Śrīdhara Svāmī has commented, atra mokṣa vañca api nirastam.(?) Dharma artha kāma mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90). So according to this principle, they're all cheating. So-called religious system, artha, economic development, sense gratification. Just like that, we have created so many social dharmas. Saṁsāra-dharma, gṛhastha-dharma, this dharma, that dharma. So in that way, they're all-cheating. Therefore, our request is that yajñārthe karmaṇaḥ anyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). In the Bālajī's temple, mostly poor cultivators. I have seen, they go.

Morning Walk Conversation About Bombay -- August 29, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: The smaller one from France and the bigger one from America. International.

Indian man: And their parents also there.

Prabhupāda: They are also here. We are a society, so the gṛhasthas are there, brahmacārīs, sannyāsīs, vānaprastha. All status of life. Missionaries, they have got only sannyāsīs. We have got all.

Indian man: The other missionaries?

Prabhupāda: Just like Ramakrishna Mission. They have got only sannyāsīs. No gṛhasthas. But we have got gṛhasthas also.

Children: Go this way, Śrīla Prabhupāda!

Room Conversation -- September 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, no, traveling, if somebody wants to travel, what he is, first of all you must know. A brahmacārī, a sannyāsī, they are meant for preaching. Not gṛhasthas.

Haṁsadūta: No, not gṛhasthas. I'm not taking any gṛhasthas.

Prabhupāda: So if a brahmacārī, gṛhastha, yes, if he wants to travel, so there is no objection.

Haṁsadūta: But what is happening is that for instance, someone will join me, then Gopāla will catch up with him and send the man to Delhi or to Hyderabad. The man will run away and come back again, and again he will be forced to go away. This is what I object to.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, this is wrong. I'll tell you what the facts are. In every temple there are certain key positions for some devotee. In no temple we are trying to keep more than necessary. Sometimes they come and he preaches to them and he gives them money. If he is the temple president... Like in Bombay Haṁsadūta came, he had a fight with Girirāja. Girirāja was ready to write such a strong letter to you. He gave money to few devotees...

Room Conversation -- September 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No soap. Take this Rādhā-kuṇḍa's... Why soap? You are so devotee of Rādhā-kuṇḍa, why you require soap? This is nonsense. You take earth from the Rādhā-kuṇḍa or Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana-dhūli. Why you require soap? (Hindi conversation to the effect that if one has the dust of Vṛndāvana or Rādhā-kuṇḍa, there is no necessity for soap) Nim datun? I was doing nim datun(?) until the teeth fell down. You will know that I was collecting nim. But now it is impossible. That also I have manufactured my own toothpaste. I purchase only the brush and I made my toothpaste at home. I never used any toothpaste. Even in my young days. I never used. You have seen it practically. Not only that now I have become sannyāsī. When I was gṛhastha I never used. When I was gṛhastha I was using that nim datun(?) regularly. And I can give you the paste. So if you cannot use nim datun, you can use this paste. Very simple. (Hindi conversation for some time)

Room Conversation -- September 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, money they have got. There is no doubt. They are not coming from poor country, either poor. No, we are welcoming provided he is reasonable. Simply to exploit, that is not good. That is not good. What do you think? In our Indian system, if somebody goes to a sādhu's āśrama, especially gṛhastha, immediately he pays fifty rupees, hundred rupees. He'll not stay more than three days, four days. But he knows "The sādhu, wherefrom he'll bring money? Take." They are paying without staying. Just like yesterday this man came, and you have seen so many people come. In your country also it is done. That is up to the man's conscience. That I have come here, so I require to stay. Pay something. But not that... That should be properly expended. So anything can be done very nicely provided there is good management. I do not see any difficulty. I am present here. If there is any difficulty, ask me. I shall advise. (Hindi) Per head hundred rupees is sufficient. Not more than that.

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: He is the founder of Gauḍīya Math. He advised me to take up this movement when I was twenty-five years old, young man. But at that time I thought that "I am a married man; let me wait." So waiting, waiting. When I retired at the... I was born in 1896. So I retired in 1954. That means I retired at the age of fifty-eight years. At fifty-eight years. Then I remained as a vānaprastha in Vṛndāvana up to seventieth year of my age. Then I thought that "Guru Mahārāja asked me to do this at the age of, when I was twenty-five years old. I could not do it. So let me try." So by his grace and Kṛṣṇa's grace, it became little successful. That's all. In 1965 I went to New York without any help. But gradually, in 1966 I registered this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in New York. And then gradually, it spread whole America, Europe, Australia, Canada. Like that.

Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Bhagatji: But he's not in Gurukula. How can you send him? He is with (father's name withheld). (father name withheld) left him for five days. (father name withheld) is keeping him.

Prabhupāda: If the father takes care, that's all right. Otherwise he can go to Hyderabad. Hyderabad should be for gṛhasthas, for plowing, for growing, and flowers, like that. No education required.

Bhagatji: He is not interested in education, not at all.

Prabhupāda: No, no education... That is waste of... For such boys who are not interested, why they should be enforced, education? They are not meant for that. Education is for higher brain, sober brain. And not that everyone has to become literate. It is not required. He can do other work. Yes.

Bhagatji: Prabhupāda means that according to the nature, you engage them.

Room Conversation -- November 15, 1976, Vrndavana:

Devotee: Well actually we're not coming on to them like we are, you know, Hare Kṛṣṇas or anything like that. We are going in karmi clothes.

Prabhupāda: No, no, there are many communities, gṛhastha, in our Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. We don't say...

Devotee: According to the escrow we say that we want to build like some sort of a church and the zoning laws for that particular area... Now if you want to rezone, the only thing that's allowed to rezone for is for churches and temples, they have it written.

Prabhupāda: You can take help from Detroit. He knows very well. That was rezoned. You did it.

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1976, Vrndavana:

Mahākṣa: I did not know. I thought it would be a good opportunity. They promised me they would give us a good program and good accommodation. When we got there, they did not like that we were very popular. (tape breaks up throughout) Then Mr. Bishop (indistinct) brother, T.C. (break) ...tour, he is a good man. He came with... (break) He is one of the most respected men in Bareilly. He forced them to put the program back again. So we did again the same evening. The people there love our program. They are all supposed... They have pictures of Caitanya Mahāprabhu on the stage and they're supposed to be following Him but they sing all these sahajiyā sort of songs and they sit down and it's all gṛhasthas. There's no, There's no real...

Prabhupāda: They want business.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So explain with that purpose. At least, they are sensible. (break) You cannot give up these four things: yajña, dāna, tapasya. So yajña for the brahmacārīs, begin yajña. And dāna for the gṛhasthas, and tapasya for the sannyāsīs. Yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-karma na tyājyam, Kṛṣṇa says. Do not give up this. "I have become sannyāsī, therefore I'll give up my tapasya also." Sannyāsī means the life of tapasya. If you give up tapasya also then what remains? How you become a sannyāsa? Yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-karma na tyājyaṁ kāryam eva tat. It must be continued. And again He stresses yajño dānaṁ tapaś caiva pāvanāni manīṣiṇām. Even if you think that you have become very great, "Now I'm very exalted personality. I don't require. I have become paramahaṁsa," No, no, no, no. This yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-karma, even if you are very exalted, still, it will purify you more, these things.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So explain with that purpose. At least, they are sensible. (break) You cannot give up these four things: yajña, dāna, tapasya. So yajña for the brahmacārīs, begin yajña. And dāna for the gṛhasthas, and tapasya for the sannyāsīs. Yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-karma na tyājyam, Kṛṣṇa says. Do not give up this. "I have become sannyāsī, therefore I'll give up my tapasya also." Sannyāsī means the life of tapasya. If you give up tapasya also then what remains? How you become a sannyāsa? Yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-karma na tyājyaṁ kāryam eva tat. It must be continued. And again He stresses yajño dānaṁ tapaś caiva pāvanāni manīṣiṇām. Even if you think that you have become very great, "Now I'm very exalted personality. I don't require. I have become paramahaṁsa," No, no, no, no. This yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-karma, even if you are very exalted, still, it will purify you more, these things. Yajño dānaṁ tapaś caiva pāvanāni manīṣiṇām. In any condition of life these things cannot be given up. So those who are in sense, gṛhasthas, they must give in charity, at least fifty percent of their income. That was shown by Rūpa Gosvāmī.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They have no time to waste time in that way. They must be inclined that "I must prepare something nice so that my husband, my children or my, all friends will be very pleased." That is their policy. I wanted that all our girls, they should be expert. And in America they are doing that. They should learn the art of cooking and prepare very nice foodstuffs, daily change of menu. And the children should be so trained up that no more birth. And that is life. They can produce hundreds of children, it doesn't matter, but must be responsible that "The children should be saved. This is the last birth, no more birth. I'll train the child in such a way that next life he's going to Kṛṣṇa, back to home, back to Godhead." That is parent's duty. Otherwise they should not become parent. That is contraceptive: "I am not fit to train my children in that way, so I shall not produce cats and dogs." This is life. Why shall I produce cats and dogs? And Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was gṛhastha, he produced Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. That is one... So in this way, if there is ideal institution, ideal mode of living, it is happy; everything is all right. That is gṛhastha. Produce Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "If I can produce kṛṣṇa-bhakta as children, then I'm prepared to marry and produce hundreds of children."

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: " They cannot understand. Hare Kṛṣṇa... (japa) This should be strictly outlawed, no more sannyāsīs. And those sannyāsīs who have fallen, you get them married, live like a... No more this showbottle, cheating. It is very ludicrous. Even there is a promise that "We shall not fall down again," that is also not believable. What is the use? Better go and speak philosophy in your gṛhastha dress, not this dress, but you have nice coat, pants, gentleman. Who says no? I never said. Rather I shall be glad to see that up-to-date gentlemen with tilaka and śikhā are speaking. That is very prestigious everywhere. Why this false dress? What is the wrong to become gṛhastha? I was gṛhastha, pākā caliber gṛhastha. My Guru Mahārāja was brahmacārī, This is ever... Just see his character. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was gṛhastha, but when He took sannyāsa: "Oh, I am now..." For sober person. That is wanted. That is ideal. He married twice. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura married twice. Caitanya Mahāprabhu married twice. What is the wrong there? One has to become pure devotee, that's all. Other things, of course, are circumstantially favorable, either a gṛhastha, brahmacārī or vānaprastha or sannyāsa. Kibā vipra kibā śūdra nyāsī kene naya, yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei 'guru' haya (CC Madhya 8.128). You must know the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is very precarious condition. So we want to give them, all of them, "Come and live." But when you come here, if you get husband we have no objection. But don't canvass. That is not good. And that is making our sannyāsīs fall down. Of course, it is difficult, that young men, young women living, intermingling. But it is... Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to reform everything. Even there there is such desire it should be checked. And that can be checked if one is strictly Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise not possible. So these things should be... Because the Kali-yuga, the more it advances, people will be suffering in so many ways. And the only solace is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, only solution. If one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he (she) doesn't require husband. He (she) does not require. He... She knows that "Kṛṣṇa is my protector. Why shall I artificially seek after father or...?" And what protection, for a few days either the father or the son or the husband may give? Real protection is Kṛṣṇa. This is temporary, but because we have got this material body we require some. In this way... And this kind of hypocrisy—they have taken sannyāsa and mixing with woman. This is not to be allowed. If you want woman you get yourself married, live respectfully. We have no objection. But this hypocrisy should be stopped. There have been so many fallen down. First of all there will be no sannyāsī anymore. I have got very bad experience. And at least, we are not going to create new sannyāsīs. And those who have fallen down, let them marry, live like respectable gentlemen. I have no objection. After all, young man, fallen down—that's all right. It is by nature's way. But marry that girl. That I am insisting from the very beginning, that no friendly liaison. If you want, get one nice... They are, all of them qualified. Get one wife and live like a gentleman. Similarly woman. Live with one husband fastidiously, with children. What is the wrong there? We have so many gṛhastha devotees.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Relation is there. Relation is there. Otherwise, how can I address him? Relation is there. So this form Hare, means Hara, is the potency of Hari. (break) Just like you are a gṛhastha. You have got your wife, you have got your maidservant. The maidservant is doing something, wife is doing something, but you have many potencies. The managing director is there, but he has got many assistants. Similarly, the Supreme Person has got multi-assistants, potencies. So they are all accepted as Hara, Hari's potencies. So we have to approach Hari through the potency: "O Hare. O the potency of the Lord. O Lord, be merciful." We cannot jump over the Lord without going through the potency. So those who are impersonalists, they cannot understand. But those who are intelligent, they can understand that God is person, He has got multi-potencies, and through the potencies He's working so nicely.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: Some countries fine you if you don't vote. If you don't vote, they fine you just to make people vote, because they know otherwise everybody's so disgusted...

Prabhupāda: Just see. I have never given vote. Since we have got this sva-rāj, as soon as the vote question, I go away. Because I think, "Why shall I give this nonsense vote? None of them are liked by me." I avoid it. In my gṛhastha life, the municipal board and the..., I avoid. I don't believe in. So give Mr. Asnani some fruits.

Hari-śauri: Some fruit?

Prabhupāda: Cut into pieces.

Mr. Asnani: Prabhupāda, Allahabad, where are you staying?

Prabhupāda: We have got our own camp. You are coming?

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: In Kanpur there is a brahmacārī aśrama. Sometimes gṛhasthas, they invite the brahmacārīs to feed them, and when a brahmacārī is initiated, they give them this pot. So that brahmacārī aśrama, the man who is maintaining, he occasionally collects these pots, so, and he sells all these pots to a brass merchant. People give sacred thread, a pot. As they give in charity to the brāhmaṇas, they give in charity to the brahmacārīs.

Hari-śauri: It says, "Kuvera, the king of the Yakṣas, gave Him a..."

Prabhupāda: Another system is: during the initiation time, somebody becomes godmother of the brahmacārī and gives some money.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But if you follow the vow...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The principles...

Prabhupāda: ...then it will be possible.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I find that as a gṛhastha only sometimes it's a little difficult because a gṛhastha has to worry about taking care of his...

Prabhupāda: Family.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...family's needs, clothing, this, that. It becomes a problem, where to get the money from. But otherwise...

Prabhupāda: And that is also different standard. People are not satisfied with simple living.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There is some cardamom? (break) Everyone is dedicated to Kṛṣṇa's service—the gṛhastha, sannyāsī, brahmacārī. That is external. And actual everyone is sannyāsī, and they have no other business than to serve Kṛṣṇa, if they are actually seriously doing. More than sannyāsī. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī (BG 6.1). He is yogi, sannyāsī. Anāśritaḥ karma. Nothing for personal interest. Then you'll be successful.

Hari-śauri: As soon as you become covered with some personal desire or endeavor for personal satisfaction...

Prabhupāda: Nothing is his personal.

Hari-śauri: ...then you become designated.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: Everything we're doing is propaganda work, everything.

Prabhupāda: That's all. If still there is excess, give some bonus to the gṛhasthas bhaktas. They're family men. Let them have some expenditure.

Jagadīśa: Some wage.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Finished all... No account. So they admitted, both of them, "Yes, sir, that is... That can be done."

Trivikrama: You're a genius.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) And our Gopāla, he is going three times and to—"How to do it?" Do it like that. Everything spend for promotion. Bas. No money. And actually, that is the fact. Where is the profit, and who is going to take the profit? Nobody is there.

Hari-śauri: We're not opening our temples for a comfortable place to live.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Let him go to the colleges accompanied by some other.

Rāmeśvara: I was thinking that especially right now, this time, is the prime time for preaching in America.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Let as many sannyāsīs as possible. Sannyāsī, brahmacārī or gṛhastha, it doesn't matter.

Rāmeśvara: Cannot possibly cover all the territory.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: There's so much engagement in America right now.

Prabhupāda: As far as possible, I think Brahmānanda should be engaged with some assistant or some superior. Two. He should not be alone. That is the best solution.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is his choice. But we say that "Don't be hypocrite." That's all. If he thinks now he'll be able to continue as a sannyāsī, he'll not fall down, he'll be careful, let him continue. That will depend on his sincerity. But I say that if you cannot remain as a sannyāsī, get yourself married, live like a gentleman and serve Kṛṣṇa. Why should you give up Kṛṣṇa's service? That is my point. As you want to live, any way, comfortably, do it. We never condemned gṛhasthas. If sannyāsa is not suitable for you, you remain as a gṛhastha. What is the wrong there?

Jagadīśa: I'm going to call him this evening.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Rāmeśvara: Brahmānanda.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Like if we buy a bus also, it's going to increase our expenses.

Prabhupāda: And gṛhastha devotees who are actually engaged, you can give them some expenditure.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I think what you said, fifty rupees a week, is okay.

Prabhupāda: That is sufficient.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: With one child, fifty rupees a week.

Prabhupāda: For child only?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Those who don't have children, their expenses are low so they should get less.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: No, my... Of course, I did not attempt in the beginning. I started my activities when I was seventy years old. So they thought, "This man is gṛhastha. He is embarassed with family life. What he'll do?" (laughs) That was their impression. But I never neglected. Guru Mahārāja told me. I was simply thinking, "How to do it? How to do it?" I thought, "Let me become a rich businessman. The money will be required." That was my thought. But Guru Mahārāja was asking me, "You give up this. I'll give you money." That I could not understand. I was planning. My plan was not wrong. But I was thinking "The money required, so let me earn some money. Then I shall begin." And Guru Mahārāja said, "You give up this money-earning endeavor. You come completely. I'll give you money." I can understand now.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: No, my... Of course, I did not attempt in the beginning. I started my activities when I was seventy years old. So they thought, "This man is gṛhastha. He is embarassed with family life. What he'll do?" (laughs) That was their impression. But I never neglected. Guru Mahārāja told me. I was simply thinking, "How to do it? How to do it?" I thought, "Let me become a rich businessman. The money will be required." That was my thought. But Guru Mahārāja was asking me, "You give up this. I'll give you money." That I could not understand. I was planning. My plan was not wrong. But I was thinking "The money required, so let me earn some money. Then I shall begin." And Guru Mahārāja said, "You give up this money-earning endeavor. You come completely. I'll give you money." I can understand now. But my desire was there. Therefore he guided me. So I was... In 1936 or '35 in Bombay, after installation of Deity, so—I was gṛhastha—I helped them to collect some money. All my Godbrothers applauded and recommended to Guru Mahārāja that "Abhay Babu is so influential. Why he lives outside the temple? He can become the temple commander and manage this Bombay temple. Why he is living outside?"

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Rāmeśvara: Sometimes we get gṛhasthas to join us, but they are not strong enough to do saṅkīrtana. So then we can encourage them to do some business like a normal gṛhastha in the world, to give some money to...

Prabhupāda: That Kṛṣṇa... Svakarmana: "All right, be engaged in your occupational duty."

Rāmeśvara: Just give something. Actually, if some gṛhasthas would do some business, it would take a little pressure off the brahmacārīs, and they can pass out more books. Now because the overhead is high in certain temples like New York, very high overhead, LA, very high, so we are collecting so much money. We could be giving out more books if we had extra money from the gṛhastha's business.

Prabhupāda: They are willing to work?

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everywhere. Taste can be very nice, sweetened. There is salt, and you can add honey also. Naturally salty and sweet plus some ingredients like peppermint, wintergreen, camphor, it will make tasty. These ingredients are very nice. We can... Some ordinary medicament. That skin disease ointment, some cough mixture. I have got experience in all these things. If you want to introduce this kind of business, tidbit...(?) The gṛhasthas can do the business.

Rāmeśvara: Gṛhasthas. I also want to start this record...

Prabhupāda: You cannot expect everyone to be brahminical qualification. We are neither brāhmaṇa nor... We do not belong to any sect, but Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, we can do anything. That, because we are doing some business, we are not vaiśyas. Just like Nanda Mahārāja was agriculturist. So that does not mean he was a Vaiṣṇava. But professionally, externally, he looked like a vaiśya.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: And we are not taking any profit. Neither the seller, neither the author is taking any profit. So there is enough money. You haven't got to pay either to the seller or to the writer, then why not spend the whole income? No profit. So we save income tax. And whatever little excess is there, (indistinct), advertise or pay some gṛhasthas some pocket expenses. In this way make it meet. No profit. By our arrangement there is no question of profit but even there is profit, we should pay the gṛhasthas some expenditure. He has... Family man there is... In this way, make always no profit. I was doing from the very beginning (indistinct), then I began to sell books. I was working, I was selling, I was collecting, I was spending, going to the printer, everything. Forcing (indistinct) I was publishing. Work nicely. If I don't force (indistinct), they'll not give me the concession rate, still I am doing. So I think this book department (indistinct) all right, you don't require to invest. But whatever income you'll get from this record business, spend it for giving prasādam.

Room Conversation on 1976 Book Scores -- January 16, 1977, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: All brahmacārī and sannyāsī.

Rāmeśvara: My zone is all gṛhasthas (laughs) with a few brahmacārīs. Anyway, next year we can beat Tamāla Kṛṣṇa. (Prabhupāda chuckles) He has only beaten us by a few hundred thousand dollars.

Prabhupāda: But don't tell him now.

Rāmeśvara: Or it may be ruined.

Prabhupāda: He may be very careful.

Rāmeśvara: I think we should send him a congratulations letter.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Yes. You send.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, you can accept a suitable situation according to your convenience. There is brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Four orders are there. Whichever is suitable for you, accept. But don't forget the problem and the aim of life. And we don't want men giving some quotation from a book just like these so-called scholars do. He has not gone through the book, but take some suitable passage and note, and then he advertises himself that he has studied so many book. "Bibliography." Is it not? So-called scholar?

Satsvarūpa: Footnotes, bibliography.

Prabhupāda: Footnote scholar they are now.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Guest (1) (Indian man): Perhaps his doubt was whether he can do kṛṣṇa-japa while remaining in gṛhastha...

Prabhupāda: Who says no?

Guest (1): That was his doubt, I think, isn't it?

Guest (2) (Indian man): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). Do that. Where is the loss? You gain. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Guest (1): Because he must be attending ārati and all that, so...

Prabhupāda: Then he'll not require. If he's in office...

Guest (1): He didn't want to change his clothes.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that...

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Er, Bangkok, yes.

Yogeśvara: No, my personal conclusion after a few weeks there is that either there should be a traveling party doing that part of the subcontinent... Otherwise, if there is a gṛhastha couple with some experience, we could have an information center in this one house. Because it's not expensive. Living there is very cheap. There is good foodstuffs and rent is not expensive.

Prabhupāda: Now, this house, we can continue to live there?

Yogeśvara: We can continue to rent. Rent is only $175 a month, including utilities. So it is not at all expensive.

Prabhupāda: And it is a very nice house.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Yogeśvara: She can speak in the language. She'll be all right as long as she has some good association.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yogeśvara: That means, perhaps, a gṛhastha couple, so that there's some girl for her to be with. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...not married. Better if she would have been married. So there is no candidate for marrying her?

Yogeśvara: Not in France. At one point she was expressing the desire to receive some training, and she even mentioned Los Angeles. But any center where she could receive training would be helpful. She's enthusiastic, but...

Prabhupāda: Yes. I know that she's enthusiastic.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So new... When they are trained up, they can come, live, especially gṛhasthas. My point is whether the farm is attractive. Not very much.

Yogeśvara: The potential is wonderful.

Prabhupāda: And therefore I'm asking. Potential is wonderful, so why they are not attracted to live in the farm and be self-independent and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa? That is our farm project. Our farm project is they should be satisfied with simple living. That is nice living. If you get milk, if you get fruit, if you get grain and open air, it is very healthy life. Why they should not be attracted?

Yogeśvara: It is still the beginning, and because it's the beginning, it is a little difficult sometimes.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That requires your fortune. Little intelligence. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151). That intelligence is for the most fortunate person. That is not ordinary thing. But guru means who knows the science of Kṛṣṇa. If you go to a bogus man, that is your misfortune. So this is the description of guru, yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's statement.

kibā vipra kibā nyāsī śūdra kene naya
yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya
(CC Madhya 8.128)

It doesn't matter whether he is a sannyāsī or gṛhastha or a brāhmaṇa or śūdra. It doesn't matter. If he knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, then he remains guru.

Room Conversation -- February 2, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Yugadharma: Because it is a very arty community. They are very interested in art there and bogus impersonalism. There seems to be a lack of enthusiasm in the gṛhasthas in Laguna Beach.

Prabhupāda: No if they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra...

Yugadharma: What I would like to do is make you very happy by doing this.

Prabhupāda: That is yajña. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32). This is the way of delivering them: Let them worship Gaura-Nitāi by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra or Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Prabhu Nityānanda, if not two, but one, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, and let them take prasādam. These two things will make them advance very quickly, the spiritual life.

Room Conversation -- February 10, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...how such gṛhastha. It is never recognized.

Jayapatākā: You are actually the only one preaching there. You're the only one who has showed any preaching capacity.

Prabhupāda: No self-interest—that is the difference. I wanted to serve. That is the difference. But now it is clear. None of them, they want to serve. They want to make one establishment so that they can eat and sleep. Of course, there is some preaching, but if, there is, preaching is the purpose, why they should separate? That is not the purpose. The purpose is that "I must have some separate establishment as ordinary karmīs they have got their separate establishment." Preaching is not that, neither they can preach with enviousness. So, what to do?

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...milk, you get gobar.

Jayapatākā: One boy has come from Miami who has been trained to work with the cows, a gṛhastha, and he is considering seriously to stay and develop this...

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Jayapatākā: ...so we can have enough milk for all the devotees.

Prabhupāda: Name.

Jayapatākā: His name was...

Satsvarūpa: Janārdana? No.

Jayapatākā: Yes, I think so. Janārdana.

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And they have introduced gambling.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And homosex.

Prabhupāda: Homosex, what is that religion? And they're passing to homosex, religion. They're getting married man to man. Most degraded.

Hari-śauri: There's no difference between the behavior of a priest and the behavior of a gross atheist...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: ...except he's dressed as a priest.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Dress only.

Hari-śauri: But they have exactly the same mentality.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, we... "It is voluntary. In our society we find so many brahmacārīs, so many gṛhasthas. And if you cannot stop this itching sensation, all right, marry one girl and live peacefully like a gentle... What is this nonsense, every three weeks divorce? We are not so rascal. If we accept one girl as my wife, I take full responsibility. Because I require a girl or woman, so this woman, that one... We are not so rascal that at home I have got woman, I am searching after another woman, another naked woman. We are not so madman. The sex pleasure is there at home, and I am seeking after sex pleasure in here, here, in the club, in the... What is that? Is that vagina is different? You are so fool. You require vagina; take one vagina. Be satisfied. And lick it. Why you are going here and there, here and there, here and there? Even old man is going to the nightclub to lick another vagina. Is that civilization? You are proud of your civilization." Tell them like that. "Licking of the vagina, different, obnoxious smell. You are less than the dog. The dog likes to smell the vagina. You are like that.

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Bhakti-caru(?): Are there any mūrti, having?

Prabhupāda: No. A sannyāsī's not required. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when he was traveling, He was not carrying any Deity. Deity worship is specially recommended for the gṛhasthas. That is compulsory.

Ādi-keśava: In the temples we should always recommend the gṛhasthas to worship the Deity.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Just like our Rādhā-Dāmodara temple, it was established... This temple was established by Jīva Gosvāmī. He was brahmacārī. So how these gosvāmīs, they are worshiping? He had no sons. It was... The temple was established by him, but the worship was transferred to the gṛhasthas bhakta. So they are doing by generation. All these Vṛndāvana temples, Govindajī temple, Rādhā-Ramaṇa temple, Rādhā-Dāmodara. Rādhā-Ramaṇa temple, he was also brahmacārī, Gopāla Bhaṭṭa. He did not marry. Jīva Gosvāmī was brahmacārī. Sanātana Gosvāmī and Rūpa Gosvāmī, they sannyāsīs. So how these gṛhasthas got this sevā? They were disciples, gṛhasthas. So gṛhastha disciples were meant for worshiping Deity.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Offenseless, he must be properly initiated. It does not mean that he should not be initiated and chant. That is not the idea. You can... Must be initiated, either you are a gṛhastha or sannyāsī or brahmacārī. Not that without being initiated you'll whimsically chant and the effect will be the same. No. You must be initiated. Ādau gurvāśrayam. You must accept a guru.

Rāmeśvara: If you want to sell some product, you may make so many claims, and then the public will buy. So sometimes we quote these psychologists who have done studies that "If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, there are some good effects."

Prabhupāda: Good there is undoubtedly. If you eat something, there will be some effect of eating. But if it is properly eaten, properly made, it will be, have better effect. That is the idea.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Satsvarūpa: The GBC will encourage serious devotees in their zone to go to India and will allow those to go who actually want to go. Resolved: Gṛhasthas not be discouraged to work at jobs or develop their own business with their own means.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Satsvarūpa: All temples will be encouraged by the GBC to undertake vigorous life membership programs with the Indians. In America this program should be standardized in all respects, using the present forms developed in New York and New Vrindaban. The program in USA will be overlooked by Ādi-keśava Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Morning Talk -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why hope?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well I'm going to buy his ticket, but he's going to pay me back. I mean, he charges whenever... Just like I sent a typewriter for cleaning...

Prabhupāda: No, no. He is a gṛhastha. He must pay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I mean... No, I mean, he must pay. No, we're not paying for him. I mean, I'm going to lay the money out for him. No, I guarantee I'll get the money.

Prabhupāda: Another thing you say privately. He has got a bad habit. When I am speaking, in the middle he speaks.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This gentleman, Mr. Dwivedi.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Kārttikeya. He... Nobody should speak when I am speaking.

Conversation: Vairagya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Lower stage. Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam (CC Madhya 6.254). That... There is one verse written by Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. What page I don't... Śikṣārtham. The bhakti-yoga, nija-bhakti-yoga... Bhakti-yoga means devotion to Kṛṣṇa. And that is vairāgya-vidyā, how to learn, renounce this world. Otherwise why Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave up His gṛhastha life? He's the same person. Why Rūpa Gosvāmī gave up their ministership? By their personal behavior they are showing this is not required. This is vairāgya-vidyā. So under the circumstances, those who have no vairāgya, they cannot live in the temple. They are taking advantage of the temple facilities for their sense enjoyment. Do you understand?

Conversation: Vairagya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So that should be stopped. So to live with wife, together as a gṛhastha, and enjoy gṛhastha life, at the same time to live in temple, this should be discouraged. Temple is meant for brahmacārī and sannyāsī, our, mainly, not for gṛhastha, because they have got inclination to enjoy. To live with wife means enjoyment. They'll have sex. This should be discouraged. But one who is absolutely required, they also cannot be allowed to live together. It is badly done(?). Suppose if one is gṛhastha, he is in devotional service, but he has no money to look after his wife. In that case the wife can live in the temple but separately with women, not together. Together living is very disturbing. It is not at all recommended. Give this point. At least, this should not be encouraged.

Conversation: Vairagya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Generally in our temples, within the temple building no gṛhasthas live together, but in the temple compound, that is to say, around the temple, there may be other buildings. There they live together. But it's...

Prabhupāda: No, I am speaking, within the temple.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think practically all over the society that has been stopped, the gṛhastha living together with wife. I don't think there's any case like that. But in the adjoining buildings they might be...

Prabhupāda: Adjoining buildings... But the temple should not provide them with salary to enjoy their life. That is same thing.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: All these yogis... They get cheap food, cheap women. That's all. And debauched women, in Hindu society, they cannot mix with other men, take advantage of these yogis, swamis and cheaters. Just becoming so-called devotees, they have sex attraction.(?) From both sides. Sex... Sex impulse is so strong that in different ways it should be taken, as a yogi, as a swami, as a gṛhastha, as a debauch, as a loafer. All... The central point is sex. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukham (SB 7.9.45). These asses...

Trivikrama: Working so hard.

Prabhupāda: Working so hard and then sex, and the female kicks on the face. They enjoy, "Ah." You have seen this?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Vṛndāvana I used to watch them.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Dog is also doing that. Is he householder? Taking care of children, the dog is also doing that. So is he householder? First of all, you do not know what is meant by householder. Taking care of children, that is done by the birds. In the nest the small kiddies are there, and they are bringing food and pushing in the mouth, (makes bird noise:) "Tee, tee, tee, tee, tee." Are they householder? And if you think they are householder, you are also householder like the dogs and birds. You do not know what is householder. Therefore you have to consult śāstra, who is a householder. Śāstra says, pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum: "You should not become a father and mother unless you take the responsibility for children that no more birth." Because this is the problem, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). If you are so able father and mother that you can stop this miserable condition of your children, then you become householder. That is householder. Otherwise what is the use of becoming a householder like dogs and cats? There is no use. There are so many cats and dogs. What is use of increasing? Now government is forcing: "Do not produce cats and dogs. Take these inhibitions(?)." Because the whole world is fed up with these cats and dogs householders. Real householder is, śāstra says, "Don't become a father, don't become a mother, if you cannot protect your children..." Samupeta-mṛtyum. And they are required. If you can do that, then you are welcome. You can produce hundreds of children. But you cannot protect yourself; how you'll be able to protect your children? All bogus. Householder is allowed, as brahmacārī-āśrama, gṛhastha-āśrama.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: There is compassion. It is revived. That's all. All the good qualities are there, because he's part and parcel of God, but in ignorance they are now covered. You have to discover. Just like Brahman. You are Brahman by nature, but you are thinking, "I am this...," "I am American," "I am Indian." And that is your disease. "I am Hindu." "I am Muslim." "I am gṛhastha." "I am sannyāsī." That is your disease, more or less. But actually you are Brahman because you are part and parcel of the Supreme Brahman. So when you actually realize yourself-brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54)—no problems. All problem finished. So that is required.

Indian man (1): In that state also, there will be compassion.

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Mayā te 'dya yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. Now, Kṛṣṇa never said, although in Bhagavad-gītā yoga is spoken by Him, He never said that "Because now time has passed away, circumstance different, so I can say you in any way." There is no such foolishness. But these people, they speak Bhagavad-gītā in a new way—more than Kṛṣṇa. These rascals are more than Kṛṣṇa. So we are guided by them. They think of themselves as more intelligent than Kṛṣṇa. This is the difficulty in India. (Hindi) Vyāsadeva says, bhagavān uvāca. (Hindi) Unnecessarily if one is proud without any qualification, he's a rascal. (Hindi) Or this is also said there, that bhakto 'si priyo 'si me (BG 4.3). The system of Bhagavad-gītā, it can be understood only by the bhaktas. Otherwise why He should select Arjuna as the perfect audience? Because Arjuna was not a Vedantist. He was gṛhastha, belonging to royal family. He was dealing in politics. So the so-called Vedantists and sannyāsīs, they are supposed to be student of Bhagavad-gītā, but Kṛṣṇa selected him not because he was a Vedantist... He was not even brāhmaṇa. He was kṣatriya, politician, gṛhastha, not Vedantist, ordinary knowledge, but Kṛṣṇa selected him. (aside:) Hm, don't do it.

Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Don't talk. Why you are talking? So our real trouble is that we have become conditioned by the material identification, "I am this body." Everyone is thinking, "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am sannyāsī," everything, identification with the body. That is the dirty thing. So one has to purify, that "I am neither American, neither Indian, nor brāhmaṇa, or so many designations." Then it is called cleansing the heart. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). That is mukti, when you don't identify with this material body. And so long you identify with this material body, either you become a sannyāsī with some beard or a gṛhastha without some beard, the same thing, identifying with the body. So ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12) means to become free from the bodily designation. And śāstra says, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). This body is composition of three dhātu, kapha, pitta, vāyu, according to Āyur Veda; and according to medical science, it is skin and then muscle, blood, bone, and marrow, stool, urine, those, combination.

Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Of course, it is not that we should not take care. But that is superficial. Real care should be taken of the soul within the body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ, dehī. Dehinaḥ and deha. So anyone who is identifying with this body in either... According to Vedic civilization, the bodily identification is divided into eight: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. Varṇāśrama-dharma. So human civilization begins, according to Vedic understanding, when there is varṇāśrama system. Otherwise it is not human civilization. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). This system should be followed. Then, gradually, one has to come to the spiritual. Chaotic society cannot help us. There must be systematic social order: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, cātur-varṇyam, and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. Sannyāsa is not voluntary, but it is compulsory. At the last stage one must take sannyāsa. After fiftieth year one must take to vānaprastha, vanaṁ vrajet. This is system. So... System of purification, how to become designationless. And if we keep the designation, then, śāstra says, sa eva go-kharaḥ: (SB 10.84.13)

Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: This is the shastric, Vedic culture, that we have to purify ourselves from the bodily designation. That is called ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), cleansing the dirty things within the core of the heart, that "I am this"—"I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am sannyāsī," "I am gṛhastha," "I am white," "I am black." These are the dirty things. So these dirty things can be cleansed by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). This chanting and hearing is puṇya-śravaṇa. If you do not know anything about, if you simply chant and hear, you become purified, puṇya, because on account of dirty things, impious life, you have become covered by different bodies. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. Different bodies means the way of birth and death. That you have to stop. And that is stopped when you get Kṛṣṇa; otherwise not. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, I think, in the Ninth Chapter... Find out this verse, aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā dharmasyāsya parantapa, mām aprāpya (BG 9.3).

Morning Conversation -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Bhavānanda: Would you like to have kīrtana now?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...come directly, brāhmaṇas sometimes brahmacārī, gṛhastha. That will impress. (break) ...hodgepodge. Respect is no. Ideals become a leader. He'll do. He'll do. There must be some strong men. Tilaka always must be there. That is our great standard. Kaṇṭhī-mālā. Every fifteen days you should be cleansed. (break) (indistinct) Don't be in all this (indistinct). Go on very nicely. Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Prabhu Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita Gadādhara Śrīvāsa... (break)

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, should overseas gṛhasthas be encouraged to send their children to Vṛndāvana gurukula?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Our devotees abroad, should they who have children, should they be encouraged to send their sons to the Vṛndāvana gurukula?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is... Practically the gurukula was planned for our own children. We have got gṛhastha devotees. They will have children, and they should be trained up. That was the idea of gurukula.

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. That is not my proposal. Why shall I engage you in business, karma-bandhana? That is not. If you can give little service, that is benefit. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. They are doing without any personal profit. You are gṛhastha. You can take some profit. That's all. But it is service. Anyone who will give some service to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, he'll make progress. Therefore I'm trying to engage everyone in this movement some way or other. A little help, svalpam api. It is such a nice thing. With that spirit you do and live comfortably. There is no question of unnecessarily taking a life of poverty-stricken. There is no necessity. But there is no necessity of luxurious life. And luxurious will already come for devotees. That I have already example. Who can live more luxuriously than ourself? Where is that? It is practical. All over the world we are living like princes. Princes even cannot live like that. All our devotees, and what to speak of myself?

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Today's Tuesday. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...gṛhastha life. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura independently... Or I was also gṛhastha. Our aim was different. But this neophyte, if they remain aloof from temple connection without attending the function, gradually they will be lost.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was the reason that I suggested to Abhirāma Prabhu that he should make his business in Bombay. Actually the gṛhasthas have no desire to live independent of the temples. Just like Mādhavānanda, he's got an apartment now just near the temple so that he can attend maṅgala-ārati and the other functions.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then Bombay is better place than Bangalore.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He admits it's a better place. No, he can be encouraged very easily to go to Bombay. I mean, generally, throughout our Society, I don't think the trend of the gṛhasthas is to move away from temples and live independently. If they live independently from the temple, it's in close...

Prabhupāda: No, no. There is chance, I said.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The karmīs' association is very contaminous. Asat-saṅgī. So for him the best thing will be to take a room in Bombay. Let him do business.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Gṛhastha should not be dependent on Society. At the same time, he should not be independent of the Society. (laughs) This is the position. Because Society cannot take charge of a family. There will be so many number of families. How it is possible? At the same time, if they remain independently of the Society, without touch, then the karmīs' poison will infect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It seems like the solution is to get apartments near the temple, get room near the temple.

Prabhupāda: Why not in the temple? Why? If he pays, what is wrong?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, in a place like Bombay where we have so many buildings, in the temple. But sometimes... Just like in America, if there's only one building with only...

Prabhupāda: No, America also... Just like Los Angeles we have got.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, you have to arrange like that. They should not live completely independent. That will be future danger.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It has to be a community of devotees.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa conscious ideal gṛhasthas. That we want. Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. There are many. I was gṛhastha. There was Deity worship, everything nice. I was publishing Back to Godhead from gṛhastha. So aim was there. But I could not leave family life for some circumstances. That is a different thing. Must be in touch with the devotional service as in the temple. If live nearby temple, it is easier, or in the temple. But aloof, that is dangerous.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If they live in the temple, then there's the problem of... You know.

Prabhupāda: No. Temple, he can take one room, pay for it. He wants to pay. That is also payment. And further, if he can pay, that's all right.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If they can pay for prasādam also, it is nice. Sex... Husband-wife living, there must be sex, so who can...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So how can that be in the same building as the brahmacārī ashram?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, so many other gṛhastha tenants.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's in, like, Hare Kṛṣṇa Land in Bombay. But supposing in a...

Prabhupāda: That you cannot check. Gṛhastha means they must have sex. But they're living independent, separately.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that's in Hare Kṛṣṇa Land.

Prabhupāda: No, anywhere. If they are doing independent business, let them do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So in the New York...

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, that is, they are not doing business. They are attached to temple activities. Anyway, these things have to be adjusted. You cannot follow very rigid in case of gṛhasthas. Some way or other, you have to adjust. We cannot allow them to be lost.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. That's clear.

Prabhupāda: Better allow them to live together. What can be done? But we cannot lose them. After training so much, if they are lost, then that is a great loss. This I am giving hint. Now you GBC, you change them. Make process.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Right now in our Society throughout the world, wherever there are gṛhasthas living in our temples, they live separate from their wives. And if they want to live with their wives, then they get a room or an apartment near the temple.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: My nose? Not very much.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh.

Prabhupāda: So you can go.

Upendra: Prabhupādajī? I have one question since you are speaking about gṛhastha. If a brahmacārī decides to get married and then enters into married life, should he be encouraged to maintain that responsibility throughout his life?

Prabhupāda: No, no, unless he can maintain family, why should he marry?

Upendra: Well, I'm specifically questioning the fact that some... Of course, our movement is young, but so many women, their husbands leave them, and they are so young and they're left. So these young women I'm thinking may become a disturbance in the future to the movement, because how a woman can remain unmarried for so many years? Her husband has left her after a few years of marriage. Generally...

Prabhupāda: What we can do?

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is not possible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of course, he might be thinking, "Well, I'm a pūjārī, so the temple should pay me money to maintain my family."

Prabhupāda: If we have got brahmacārī pūjārī, why should we maintain a gṛhastha? He is not only one pūjārī. We have got sannyāsī, brahmacārī. Why should we maintain a gṛhastha? And where is the means? After all, these things are to be adjusted. I can give you the ideas. The pūjārīs were given in Vṛndāvana the temple, and they made it a source of income. Just like the gosāis are doing. Their pūjā goes to hell.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Mean these gṛhastha pūjārī. Gradually the pūjā will go to hell. They'll gradually glide down how to maintain family by showing the Deity. That is... The gosāis are doing. People have sentiment to give something to the Deity, and they will depend on that income. Bas. This is the position of these Vṛndāvana temple. What is the position of the Rādhā-Ramaṇa? Deterioration. It is not being properly done. They'll sell the property.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Just like that Madan Mohan is thinking...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The interest will go to the family, not to the Deity.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's not good.

Prabhupāda: Jīva Gosvāmī was brahmacārī. So he gave to a gṛhastha śiṣya to maintain Rādhā-Dāmodara. But what is the position now? Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī was also a brahmacārī. Everything depends on training and mentality. If the attention is diverted otherwise, then it is lost.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think Mādhavendra Purī, he gave his Deity. Now it's again... You know, who has Govardhana Deity. Vallabhācārya's line now worships.

Prabhupāda: They gave to the Vallabhācārya. But somehow they are maintaining the status quo.

Room Conversation Gaurasundara, Dr. Kapoor -- July 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If you simply worship the Deity in gorgeous way and do not preach, see to the interest of devotees and other common men, then you'll remain in the prākṛta state, material stage. You should go further, see the interest of ordinary people, how they are understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tad-bhakteṣu. To give worship to the guru and honor them. Simply to worship Deity is material platform. Gṛhasthas, we want, this preaching. And not like ordinary. Big Deity worship... (indistinct-too much background noise) Govinda dāsī is not willing to live with you?

Gaurasundara: No. I think she's... I have heard that she's married again. But anyway, she has not been in touch with me.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So you give some... We are getting many other land. If your becomes ideal, you can teach them. People are coming for chanting?

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes. One gṛhastha is there, and the first week he went there, every night three hundred people were coming.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Yaśomatīnandana: And that was in the middle of the desert. Not desert, in the middle of like jungle, you know.

Prabhupāda: That I want.

Yaśomatīnandana: It's fifteen minutes away from the...

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Yaśomatīnandana: One boy that is there, they invite him for prasāda, and then they fan him.

Prabhupāda: Do it nicely. All facilities will come.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They can make small cottages for the gṛhasthas.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And then they'll be happy there.

Prabhupāda: Weekly visitors. Two-rooms cottage.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This will attract a lot of people.

Prabhupāda: And it will cost not more than fifteen thousand, two-room cottage.

Room Conversation With Madhudvisa and others -- August 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter. Live like gṛhastha, but don't leave. So where you are staying now?

Madhudviṣa: I just came from Hawaii.

Prabhupāda: Where is your wife?

Madhudviṣa: She's there. I just had a baby boy.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Madhudviṣa: I just had a son.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Room Conversation With Madhudvisa and others -- August 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Madhudviṣa: I called him Abhay. I hope that's all right.

Prabhupāda: So remain as gṛhastha and render your service. There is no harm. If one could not proceed, it doesn't matter. Failure is the pillar of success. Then try. Again you shall try. Where is Śrutakīrti? How are you?

Śrutakīrti: Very well, thank you.

Prabhupāda: Śrutakīrti is also gṛhastha. So jointly you can work and improve this movement. That is our ambition. Gṛhe bā banete thāke, hā gaurāṅga bole ḍāke, narottama māge tāra saṅga. "Either he remains at home or as a sannyāsī, if he is devotee of Lord Gaurāṅga, I want his association." That is Narottama Ṭhākura's... Gṛhe bā banete thāke, hā gaurāṅga bole ḍāke, narottama māge tāra saṅga. So follow the principles, and whichever position is suitable. Don't be carried away by the waves of māyā. Capture Caitanya Mahāprabhu and you'll be saved. Is that all right? Don't leave us. You are quite... At least you made advance. You are one of the important devotees. So don't lose that position now. Manage in the position you want to remain. Now Gaurasundara has also come. So I'm glad to see that you are... Your bunch of hair is long. Yes. Cut it. So give them place to stay nicely.

Page Title:Grhastha (Conversations 1976 - 1977)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:26 of Jun, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=133, Let=0
No. of Quotes:133