Govern (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"govern" |"governance" |"governed" |"governing" |"governs"

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prof. Kotovsky: Hm hm. Canakya Purī, yes, I know.

Prabhupāda: So this Canakya Paṇḍita was a great politician and brāhmaṇa. And as brāhmaṇa, he was vastly learned. He has got some moral instruction. They're very valuable, still going on. In India school children are taught. So this Canakya Paṇḍita, although he was prime minister, he maintained his brahminical spirit. He was not accepting any salary, yes, because for brāhmaṇas to accept salary, it is understood that he becomes a dog. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata. He can advise, but he cannot accept. So he was living in a cottage, but he was prime minister. So this brahminical culture, the brahminical brain, is the standard of Vedic civilization. Just like Manu-smṛti. Manu-smṛti... You do not know. You cannot trace out the history, when Manu-smṛti was written. But Manu-smṛti is considered so perfect that it is the Hindu law. The Hindus are governed by Manu-smṛti. There was no need of passing daily a new law by the legislative assembly to adjust this social order. You see? The law given by Manu was so perfect that it can be applicable for all the time. This is perfect. Tri-kāla-jñāḥ. The word is there, tri-kāla-jñāḥ, past, present, future.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: And so many things. So they're changing. But before this modern age the whole Hindu society was being governed by Manu-smṛti. Manu-smṛti, yeah.

Prof. Kotovsky: In all periods in India...

Prabhupāda: Manu-smṛti. Now they are changing so many. They... Strictly speaking, the modern Hindus, they are not strictly according to the Hindu scripture.

Prof. Kotovsky: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: No. They are not... So our point is, we are not going to bring back the old type of Hindu society. It is not that. Our...

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: So Vedic authorities, authoritative statement, are accepted by the ācāryas. Just like India is governed by the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, and Śaṅkarācārya. They accept in that, and the followers accept them. The benefit is that whether cow dung is pure or impure, I do not waste my time, but because it is stated in the Vedas, I take it, so I save my time. Śruti-pramāṇa. In that way there are different statements in the Vedas for sociology and politics and anything because Vedas means knowledge. Vedas means knowledge. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). Vetti veda vido jñāne. Vid-dhātu, when it is used for knowledge, it is called Veda.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- March 12, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So Rādhā-kuṇḍa Mukerjee, he has supported cow slaughter. He was given a post, made a parliament member first of all. So this poor man, five hundred rupees per month, he accepted. Then he induced that "You take more money, write like this." So if you pay money... British government's whole policy was that if the Indians are kept strict Hindus, it is next to impossible to govern them. So therefore they adopted this policy. They changed the whole policy how the Hindu will think everything mentioned in the śāstra is nonsense. They have trained up, and Nehru is the first-class trainee. Everything mentioned in the śāstra, the Arya-samaj, they also wrote Saptartha (indistinct), so many. And Dr. Radhakrishnan also. All the scholars, they would never mention any śāstra more than once within one thousand years.

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Śyāmasundara: This dictionary gives a definition of necessity. It says that it is a constraint or compulsion regarded as a law prevailing through the material universe and governing all human action.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Governing all human action. God knows how many necessities you can create. And for all of them the supply is there. But you do not know, you take it as chance it has come. It is your foolishness that whatever necessities may be... God knows that so many necessities can be. It may be millions types. And for all of them there is immediately supply. So this rascal does not know that it is already planned. (break) The proprietor is living there. The servants are living there. The cats and dogs are also living there.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: "To support this statement there are many authoritative assertions by the learned scholars of bygone ages. According to their general opinion, a person may become governed by certain convictions derived by his own arguments and decisions. Then another person, who may be a greater logician, will nullify these conclusions and establish another thesis. In this way the path of argument will never be safe or conclusive. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam recommends, therefore, that one follow in the footsteps of the authorities.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So seeing that mistake also, now the scientists, they are proposing that they should make a governing body, not the politicians, so when they discover something the result can be completely controlled by this group of...

Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. That is another foolishness. They will be bribed and they will vote. They will get money, that's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Another thing that is coming up is genetic engineering, which they are afraid about, just like they say remember like atomic bomb incident. The politicians will utilize the...

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, propaganda. That is the cause of India's cultural falldown. These Britishers simply made propaganda that "Whatever you have got in India, this is all allegory, fiction. These śāstras are nothing. But now you are learning from us England's work in India, that is your real... You are becoming civilized now. Otherwise, you are in the utopia, and all these śāstras, throw it out." Because that was Lord Macauley's policy. Lord Macauley was sent to report how Indians can be governed nicely. So he reported that if you keep the Indians as Indians, you will never be able to govern them, because they are superior. You make propaganda that they are inferior and they will imitate you and then you can... That they did.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: Why different matter? First of all you agree this!

Krishna Tiwari: How can I agree? Government is us. We govern ourselves.

Prabhupāda: You are. You are. You are ordered not to drive your car on the left: you must.

Krishna Tiwari: Oh, I shouldn't, I shouldn't. I don't want to.

Prabhupāda: Therefore you are under the laws of the government. Therefore you are under the laws of the government.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: You cannot avoid it. So everyone is under the laws the nature. Let us decide on that. Now these laws of nature, these also controlled by somebody else. As we gave the example that every individual person within a state is controlled by the laws of government or laws of king. Now it is governed by democracy. Formerly it was under the king. So king is a person. He gives the law, and under that law all citizens are controlled. This is a fact. Therefore the laws of nature is controlled by somebody, controller, and we get this information from Vedic knowledge. And practically it is so, that just by the example, law must be given by somebody. Law is not blind, or something dropped from the sky. Law is law. It is made by somebody. That is law. It is working systematically.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests and Devotees -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: They do not know all these things. Therefore they have been described as śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). All these men are exactly like dogs, hogs, camel and asses. So by their vote, by the votes of dogs, hogs, camel and asses, another big ass, big dog, will be on the government. So what does he know, how to govern? Do you think if you make a dog king, it will be good government. Or a camel king, it will be good government? So it is happening so. The dogs, hogs, camels and asses, they are voting. Another big camel, another big dog is on the governmental head. How can you expect good government? After all, he's a dog, hog and camel. How can you expect good government from him? Instead of a petty dog, if you enthrone a very big dog... What is the big dog? Does it mean the condition will improve? That is the position now. Just like what is this Nixon? He's a big dog. That's all. And therefore now people are accusing him.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No. This was the cause of breakdown. This was suppressed by Guru Mahārāja under his influence, but the rebellious was there during his lifetime. And it burst into... Therefore he advised that "You make a governing body and Kunja Babu should be allowed to remain manager." This was directly spoken. He never asked anybody to become ācārya. He asked that "You form a governing body of twelve men and go on preaching, and Kunja Babu may be allowed to remain manager during his lifetime." He never said that Kunja Babu should be ācārya. None, none of them were advised by Guru Mahārāja to become ācārya. His idea was "Let them manage; then whoever will be actual qualified for becoming ācārya, they will elect. Why I should enforce upon them?" That was his plan. "Let them manage by strong governing body, as it is going on.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: One side, that Vāsudeva Ācārya and Sar Kunja Babu Ācārya. And Paramānanda, he thought that "Whoever will be powerful, I shall join them." (laughing) He only thought. But Guru Mahārāja never asked that these three men should be trustees. He wanted governing body. So the rebellion broke out immediately after his passing away. And then fight in the high-court. And Kunja Babu, he is very intelligent man. So from the very beginning he knew that "There will be fight after the demise of Guru Mahārāja. So fight will be in the high-court. So at the expense of Guru Mahārāja, let my brother and sons become attorneys and barrister so I will have not to pay all these things." It was a planned thing. And that is being done. He was a clerk, it was not in his power to make his brother and sons attorneys and barristers.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Therefore we have to start this movement seriously, not to take that. You cannot change it. Then you become demons. Therefore I am warning you that before they, these rascals change, you take the advantage of it, that "You cannot change. Then you become demons, you (are) animals. If you withdraw your trust from God, then you are animals. So we are not going to be governed by the animals." That should be the people's voice. Educate people to become Kṛṣṇa conscious and they will yell, "No, we are not going to be governed by the animals. We want real men." That should be your demand. Therefore I am warning you, that before they do that, you become strong, so that they cannot do it. Rather, they may understand, "Yes, what we are speaking is all right." That is preaching.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But I have got sixty-six branches, so if I do not go some time at least, they also become little depressed.

Dr. Kapoor: That is true, but you'll have to find some way out. You have to...

Prabhupāda: I have constituted one governing body as Prabhupāda desired, governing body, but still they are not so experienced. (Hindi)

Dr. Kapoor: (indistinct) You would more usefully because you are (indistinct) to reading and writing (indistinct) than going about.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is going on. There are some philosopher. He has written book—he has got Nobel Prize—that "This Russian government, simply terrorism." He has written a book. He is a famous man. He got Nobel Prize. He has said that "This is simply terrorism; a set of, a group of men, simply under terrorism they are governing."

Dhanañjaya: Solzhenitsyn?

Prabhupāda: I think so. Yes. So where is the satisfaction? He wants something. That is... That is not possible. When there is full knowledge, one can be satisfied on knowledge, not by this artificial means. That is not possible. So actually the whole world is suffering for want of knowledge. So we are giving that knowledge. We are satisfying everyone. We are giving the knowledge.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: But if he has no brain, if he is not guided by the brain, or if he has no brain, so what is the understanding? Understanding is "I have got money. Now let me drink," that's all. There must be...

C. Hennis: First of all, you can't force a man to be governed by his brain either. You can't force a man to use his brains.

Prabhupāda: Therefore brain is... The United Nation, how the world society should keep a class of men who act as brain and guide everyone so that everyone becomes happy.

Yogeśvara: That is our movement.

C. Hennis: I think that that's a...

Prabhupāda: That is our movement.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śakuni, yes. They're vultures, and their civilization is vulture-eater. The animal-eaters, they're like jackals, vultures, dogs. They're similar to these animals, the animal-eaters. It is not human food. Here is human food. Here is civilized food, human food. Let them learn it. Uncivilized, rudes, vultures, rākṣasas, and they're leaders. Therefore, I say all fourth-class men, they are leaders. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. We require first-class men to lead. We are first-class men. Take our advice, and then everything will be all right. We are creating first-class men. What is the use of fourth-class men leading? All fourth-class men. If I say so frankly, people will be very angry. All fourth-class men. Basically, they're all fourth-class men. Now, these first, second, third-class men are described. So at the present moment, no one belongs to this qualification. Even they are not to the third-class men. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). Who is, who is protecting the cows? That is the third-class man's business. So therefore everyone is fourth-class. So the fourth-class men, they are electing their representative to govern.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: He's ad... She's advanced. (laughter) She's more advanced. That's nice. (laughs) This is going on. Animals, simply animals in a different posture. That's all. Fourth-class, fifth-class men. And they are governing, they are leaders. Then what is that? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ.

Morning Walk at Marine del Rey -- July 13, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Police state? And why they are declaring Commonwealth and, British Commonwealth. So if it is governed by the police, how it is Commonwealth? There should be very strong agitation. And all the Hindus will join. So who will organize it? Don't make it childish. It is very serious. (pause) Police should have taken task when the rules were broken by Mahādeva. Why they did not take action in that time? They did not say anything. Police, if there is discrepancy, violation of the rules, they should have taken immediate action. Why they did not take? Now they have manufactured by conspiracy that "This movement should be stopped. Now take this plea." This is going on.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: No. The Bangladesh, they were Bengalis. Although the whole Pakistan, including Bangladesh and the other part, West Pakistan, East Pakistan, Bangladesh... So actually, Bangladesh is bigger than West Pakistan. They should have taken the government, majority. But the West Pakistan, by force they were ruling. They are not majority. So after all, they are Bengalis, maybe Muslim. They're intelligent than these Punjabis. Punjabis, they have got bodily strength, not brain. So these Bengalis, in Mujjhamat Raman, that was his demands, that: "We are majority. Why they should govern us? We should govern over them." This is the movement. So, but they're already in power. So how to throw them out of power? So he negotiated in India, that: "You help us to separate from..." And India's interest is that Pakistan becomes weak by separation, that is India's interest. So India agreed to help them. How to help?

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Hmm? She says "He."

Carol: ...not be governed by them.

Prabhupāda: She says "He," but He is impersonal. (laughter)

Carol: Yes. (laughs) It's the intellect and the emotion.

Prabhupāda: How vague ideas. And they are passing on philosophy. "He" contradicts. You say "He." And again He is impersonal.

Carol: At the emotional level it's a very personal...

Prabhupāda: Why should you emotional? You are a philosopher. You should talk very nicely.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: (laughing lightly) You cannot say that I have introduced it. It is already there. As it is there in India, it is also everywhere. It may be under different names. The four classes are already there, everywhere. The... Even in Muslim, they have also got the (indistinct), what is called, mohallas, priestly class. They have got. We are introducing the systematic caste system, but caste system is already there, everywhere. Maybe under different names. And it is necessary. The caste system is there as a matter of necessity. You cannot abolish it. But it is now existing in a deformed manner. People should be systematic and organized. That we are trying to. Not that a new thing we are trying to introduce. It is already there. Our proposition is that "You priestly class, you must act exactly as a priest-ideal priest. You are a drunkard, you are woman-hunter, you are doing everything nonsense, and at the same time you are passing on as priest—this should be stopped." This should be stopped. The priestly class, or the brāhmaṇas, they should be trained up to become truthful, how to control mind, how to control senses, and tolerant, and very learned, knowing God also—these things are required. They should be the first-class, ideal men. Similarly, the kṣatriyas, they must be fearless; they must be very boldly, face fighting the enemies; they must have the capacity to govern nicely so that people will not have any complaint against the government. In this way they should be trained up.

Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: You are taking of country, but the śāstra takes of the planets, not of the country. Your idea is very crippled: country, national. But śāstra is not... There is no such thing as national. They take the whole universe as a whole. They consider from that angle of vision. These crippled ideas, "state," "national," has come later on. There was no such thing previously. One planet or universe, like that. Just like last night the girl was astonished that "How this planet can be governed by one king?" It was being actually done. And the whole universe is being governed by Brahmā, one person. So one must know how to govern.

Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Devotee (1): We can see, Śrīla Prabhupāda, by the distribution of wealth and minerals in each loka, in each planet, it is meant to be governed by one ruler. One place there is gold, one place grain to grow. Is this true?

Prabhupāda: No. Everywhere there is everything, maybe proportionately in different quantities.

Hari-śauri: Is that governing that Brahmā does in the universe, he does that in relationship with all the other demigods like they are departmental heads? So he is not personally directing every single thing.

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: "Oh, what is the wrong? I can become dog." This is the position. (break) ...āhur anīśvaram. (break) ...trying to go to the planet, this planet, that planet. Rascal, say... They did not recognize, "Who has made this planet, where I am going?" They are taking credit by going there, but he is not giving any credit to the person or the agent who has made it. Just see. What do you think? That, "I am going there, but who has made it? Who is that person?" "No, it has come out... There was a chunk, and it became plant and then so on." This is their knowledge. And people are accepting, "Oh, great scientist. There was a chunk." Just see. Why don't you get yourself a chunk and it burst into big, big planet? (laughter) Such rascals are governing the whole human society.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) So I shall personally teach Bhagavad-gītā. Her and her most confidential associates or who is governing. That I can do. (Bengali) Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). I wanted a rājarṣi to take up this movement seriously, but I could not get till now. If she becomes, it will be benefit for me, for the world, for her, everyone. Because I have no power, I have no money, but if one rājarṣi who has got strength, money, intelligence, if she takes, then it will be very quickly successful. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, His movement became very successful when Mahārāja Pratāparudra of Orissa took it. Gautama Buddha's movement was successful when Aśoka, Mahārāja Aśoka took it. It requires. And Kṛṣṇa says, rājarṣayo viduḥ.

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: England. So everything Indian required, they would supply, and they would govern and they would exploit. Therefore they became so rich—simply by exploiting India. And Indian soldiers, they expanded empire-Africa, Burma. That's all, all Indian exploitation, Indian men, money, and exploitation. As soon as they lost India, they lost whole empire.

Cyavana: Now they are also suffering.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: On the whole, the white man is governing.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, completely.

Prabhupāda: They are keeping, governing. This is Indian house. Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. This is Indian shopping, all Indian shops here. From here back is all Indian.

Prabhupāda: So the European come here to shop, for shopping?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: They are Indians or, these, white?

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: No. Practically, because you have preached your culture in India; therefore they have lost their own culture. The Western, the Britishers were for two hundred years and they preached. Their policy was to kill the Indian culture. Because that report of Lord McCauley, after studying Indian situation, the report was to the Parliament that "If you keep India as Indian, then you will not be able to rule over them," so therefore there was regular policy to kill Indian civilization. And because they were on the governing power, they could do it. Therefore India lost its own culture and victimized by the Western culture. This is the position. Just they are learning how to eat meat, how to drink wine, how to dress them with coat and pant, how to go to the hotel, illicit sex—these things are…

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. He has to tax his brain. Kṛṣṇa has given advice, everything: "Divide the society into four classes: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra." And then the brāhmaṇas should give nice advice, teacher. The kṣatriyas should govern, and the vaiśyas should produce food and give protection to the cows, and if there is excess, then trade. And śūdras should help, worker. Here I see the Europeans, they are working as the kṣatriyas, government, and the Indians they are working as vaiśya, and the Africans, they are as śūdras. But where is brāhmaṇa? There is no brāhmaṇa; therefore it is not good. It will suffer. And if they accept, the government men accept our advice and do accordingly—we don't want government post, but we can give good advice how to govern—then everyone will be happy. That they are losing.

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But we find śūdras even amongst the European class here, even though they are in the governing position.

Prabhupāda: No, we are not speaking "Europeans, Americans, Indians." We are speaking "human being." We never say... Bhagavad-gītā never says that the Europeans should be the first-class men and Indian should be the last... It never says. That is training. Just like engineering college. The European also can become engineer, and the Indian also can become engineer. There is no discrimination. Similarly, this division of society, that the whole human society, it should be recruited and trained up... Then society will be all right. Otherwise not.

Morning Walk -- October 25, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the window there was "cut, cut." (break) ...African government policy to keep these Africans', er, service, yes, for working, get money. They will remain happy in that way. They have no brain. They cannot govern. It is not possible. So this policy is nice.

Harikeśa: Someone was telling me that the weather here was supposed to be like Miami.

Prabhupāda: Miami? (break) ...places were reserved for the sinful man in Kali-yuga. Formerly the Aryans never touched these places.

Harikeśa: Africa.

Morning Walk -- October 25, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...the government accept you as guide, then everything will be all right. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Tell them that "We are not going to take any salary. You simply take our advice, and govern." The modern legislative assembly, they should be composed of first-class brāhmaṇas, no salary. Then the government will be first-class. All of them are after money; therefore they are trying to capture the power. They have no idea, no desire for the well-being of the citizens. (break) ...this tree? Dates?

Morning Walk -- November 12, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is the difficulty. Jaya. Fools' paradise. Eh?

Dr. Patel: That's right. We are living in fools' paradise. If the whole today universe was governed as it is ordained by Vedas and Vedic philosophy and laws, there would not have been any difficulty for us. But from time immemorial, even in the very place of the cradle of Vedic civilization, there were all these types of wars and (Hindi) and daityas and devas and all these things.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have got some... (break) Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the only remedy to make everyone the first-class human being. Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcana sarvair guṇair tatra samasate suraḥ (SB 5.18.12). Hare Kṛṣṇa. If you want to qualify the human society with all good qualities, then bhagavad-bhakti is the only means. Otherwise not.

Morning Walk -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The government is also poor because they do not know how to govern. Buddhi yasya balaṁ tasya. If one has got intelligence he has got strength.

Harikeśa: Change of government means getting poorer.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Harikeśa: A change of government...

Prabhupāda: Change of government... Just like they say, a change of theories by the rascals. Change means rascal.

Harikeśa: But as soon as a government changes...

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But how they knew?

Dr. Patel: But they knew how to govern.

Prabhupāda: No, this is not government, if you lose after all. What is this government? You must govern in such a way that you will never lose it.

Dr. Patel: Well, sir, we also had an empire, India, and we have lost it, haven't we? And we, all the eastern country, Malaya, Java, Sumatra, and all those things. Why we lost it? Kālena!

Prabhupāda: Kālena of course. So when you lose your culture, then you lose everything.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Harikeśa: Virginia, in America. There, all they do is grow tobacco now. (break)

Haṁsadūta: .... But on the other hand, they claim that there are certain laws which govern this material nature. This is a complete contradictory position.

Hariśauri: A law means there has to be some compliance to a higher authority.

Prabhupāda: So discuss all these nonsense propositions.

Harikeśa: Somebody...? (break)

Prabhupāda: He has clearly proved that Darwin is a fool. He's wrong. He has not written the word "fool," but he's wrong.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Reporter: "So if we don't choose our leaders by popular election, how will society be governed?"

Prabhupāda: "You require brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas and śūdras. Just as when you want to construct a building you require engineers. You don't want sweepers. Isn't that so? What will the sweeper do? No. There must be engineers. So if you follow the division of varṇāśrama, only kṣatriyas are allowed to govern. And for the legislative assembly, the senators, only qualified brāhmaṇas. Now the butcher is in the legislative assembly. What does he know about making laws? He is a butcher. But by winning votes he becomes a senator. At the present moment, by the principle of vox populi, a butcher goes to the legislature.

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: "Then there cannot be good government. Americans say they trust in God, but without the science of God, that trust is simply fictitious. First take the science of God very seriously, then put your trust in Him. They do not know what God is, but we do. We actually trust in God. They are manufacturing their own way of governing, and that is their defect. They will never be successful. They are imperfect, and if they go on manufacturing their own ways and means they will remain imperfect. There will always be revolutions, one after another. There will be no peace."

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: "Although you may be imperfect, because you are carrying out my order, you become perfect. You have accepted me as your leader, and I accept God as my leader. In this way society can be governed perfectly."

Reporter: "So good government means first of all to accept the Supreme Being as the real ruler of the government."

Prabhupāda: "You cannot directly accept the Supreme Being. You must accept the servants of the Supreme Being, the brāhmaṇas or Vaiṣṇavas, devotees of the Lord, as your guides. The government men are the kṣatriyas, the second class. The kṣatriyas should take advice from the brāhmaṇas or Vaiṣṇavas and make laws accordingly.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Bill Sauer: Saying that we're governed by the laws of nature, since we are a biological creature like the rest... (laughs)

Prabhupāda: So you should not remain under the laws of material nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is very difficult.

Bill Sauer: In one of the cover letters that went out to some of the people in the American Institute of the Aeronautics and Astronautics, I referred to mankind as a biological phenomenon to solve one of nature's big problems. And a man wrote back, "Anyone who calls man a biological phenomenon shouldn't try and talk to me." So I don't know what he thinks we are, but...

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Biological phenomenon...

Bill Sauer: It is nature, it is governed by the laws of nature, exactly.

Prabhupāda: So you can get out of it as it is advised, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is very difficult. But mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. If you surrender to God, then you can get out of this biological problem. Otherwise it is not possible.

Mr. Davis: May I just add one little note to my friend, and I'm sure my scientist friend will back me up, that the radiation from the sun is far more than just light, which is, after all, just a mere part of the electromagnetic radiation.

Bill Sauer: Physical light is what you're talking about.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: They are our lawbook. Just like we have books of philosophy, there are also books of law, how to govern society, how to deal with criminals. In other words, we are sticking to the Vedic literatures. As they instruct, we are following.

Interviewer: What do the Vedic literatures say about adultery?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about adultery, Prabhupāda? She wants to know what the Vedas say should be the... What is the reaction for adultery? How does one deal with an adulterer? If someone is an adulterer and he's caught, what should be the...

Prabhupāda: No, there is no such direct punishment, but it is prohibited. It is prohibited.

Room Conversation with Endowments Commissioner of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Don't remain on the asat platform. Come to the sat platform. Asato mā sad gamaya. Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya. Don't remain ignorant. But unfortunately people are so absorbed in asat things they do not know what is sat. They cannot go to the sat platform. They cannot go to the light platform. And they are struggling like that. No solution. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). The government may change, but the men are the same, in darkness. What improvement will there be simply by changing government? The persons who are governing, they are in the darkness. So how, by change of government, there will be change of situation? I said in, where? That the United Nations is an assembly of dogs barking. Where did I say it? It was published in the paper. I said that if you keep them as dogs, and if you ask some dogs, "My dear dogs, please do not bark. Live peacefully," is it possible?

Room Conversation with Endowments Commissioner of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So we can give men.

Commissioner: Yes. And a training institute has to be started. Very badly we need it. My department also. Having any number of people. It is suffering because we don't have the proper people with that objective to govern...

Prabhupāda: Because the culture is lost. Culture is lost.

Commissioner: Because we take the local people as trust board members. We appoint officers.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I said if you keep them dogs, what is the use of United Nations? You cannot make the dogs united. That is not possible.

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: So that is your interpretation. But we are trying to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is our mission. That you produce food grains sufficiently and give protection to the cows so that food grains and milk will give you all benefits of economic question. You'll be satisfied. That's all. Not only that, I have practically seen that by God's arrangement there are so much land on this planet that you can produce ten times food stuff of the whole population. But they are not doing that. They are utilizing land... Just like in Africa I have seen, enough land is there, but what they are doing? They are keeping some cows and bulls, and when they are grown up... They are not given anything to eat. There is enough grass. And as soon as they are fatty, they are taken to the slaughterhouse. Not for their own eating, but exporting. This business is going on. Similar business is going on in Australia and New Zealand. Unnecessarily they are killing these cows, and this shortage of foodstuff and shortage of milk, this is not good arrangement. The recommended process in the Bhagavad-gītā, that annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). If you have sufficient foodstuff, then everyone is satisfied. And it is the duty of the vaiśya class, kṛṣi go-rakṣya vāṇijyam (BG 18.44); go-rakṣya vāṇijyam vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam. The, according to Bhagavad-gītā, this is the business of the vaiśyas. The brāhmaṇas, they should be very much highly educated, enligthened in spiritual knowledge. The kṣatriyas, they should govern, give protection. The vaiśyas, they should produce enough food.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So nirākāra... If you are speaking, then how he can become nirākāra?

Guest (4): He actually defines what prevails in the universe, what is that element which governs us.

Prabhupāda: Let us just discuss from the point. As you say, that I think and I speak, so when you speak, when you think, whether you are nirākāra or ākāra.

Guest (4): He defines, ultimately, after all thinking...

Prabhupāda: I am asking you.

Guest (4): He has come to that conclusion.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Factories and industry and export and import and then slaughterhouse, drinking, prostitute—these are all British contribution. In India, before that, they did not know, although there was Muhammadan kingdom. Muhammadans were happy as ruler. They did not... They thought that "Let them execute their own religion, and let us our religion." That was the relation. And Hindus, they took it that "Somebody must be government..." (break) ...policy that "If the Indians remain as Indian, it will be impossible to govern. Give them education and condemn everything Indian." And they engaged their own men, engaged our men, and gradually they developed the industry. Naturally people became very much astonished: "Oh, they are making such a nice bridge.

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, nature has divided, but we are taking the post or some position without qualification. That must be rectified.

Dr. Patel: That, what you say, that we should not have come in possession of the power in government, is a fact. They have no that quality of governing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What can be done? There is no kṣatriyas.

Dr. Patel: They... You see, they govern for themselves, and not for people.

Prabhupāda: There is no brāhmaṇa in the society.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: A religiosity there. Some fellows in America, they talk nonsense about this science: "It's all the chemicals." They believe in what we call that dialectical materialism: It is a material arrangement which produces consciousness. It is not the consciousness which governs the material. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the brain is conscious? (break) If you want subsidence of anartha, bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje. Anartham upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje, lokasyājāna... These rascals, they do not know. Ajānataḥ. Vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām (SB 1.7.6). Therefore Vyāsadeva made this sātvata-saṁhitā for these rascals and fools. Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). This is the beginning of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The origin of everything.... Anvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ sva-rāṭ. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa.... (break) There is a very big.... What is called? Conspiracy against us.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa never said that "You sit down, lazy." You must work. And that is intelligence, how to engage a person in some work. That requires governing body. That is intelligence. They should be ready to work, and your intelligence will engage them. And there is sufficient. Why you are constructing so many centers? There is enough work to do. Just like here. All people are coming, and each one can be preached, each one can be convinced of the philosophy.

Gargamuni: In India there are 500,000 villages. So we need so many men for going.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: "There is no first-class man now governing the situation. All fourth class, fifth class, tenth class. There is no first-class man." I challenged him.

Hari-śauri: When he went out the door he said, "Oh, well, I suppose I'd better go back to my fourth-class life."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. You are already.

Rāmeśvara: In Vedic culture, kings like Parīkṣit Mahārāja were trained when they were very young.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Some were, not all. And the Muhammadans, the could not convert any gentleman to Muhammadanism. Maybe one or two, say. Very... And similarly, Christian also. No high-class man became Christian. One or two. That is for some other purpose. Just like in Scottish Churches College, the Christian Indians were given more preference. There was one Mr. Raya. He would not speak in Bengali. Even if some Bengali student would like to talk with him Bengali, he would answer in English. (laughs) He was so sharp. (Bengali) (Hindi) You understand Hindi any of you? There is a song in the Howrah Bridge, pontoon bridge. So when this Howrah Bridge..., not this bridge. Up to 1900... When my daughter was married, in 1941, up to that time there was a bridge connecting Howrah and Calcutta, pontoon bridge. That we were seeing from childhood, from our birth. So this was an astonishment in India. They wrote song, (Hindi), that "How wonderful bridge this sāheb company...," because India was being governed by East Indian Company... After mutiny, Queen Victoria took charge.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Sharma: No, it has nothing to do with the Indian government accepting. When once we request somebody in the cultural society, and the Indian embassy governs as a function, and we deliver lecture and we invite some of the Russians, we will give it to them also.

Prabhupāda: We can send some of our scientist disciples to prove scientifically there is God. If you can arrange, I can send my scientist disciples.

Dr. Sharma: For that they require a visa.

Prabhupāda: Visa, of course, we can...

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says, "The birthplace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu in the district Nadia, prepared under the direction of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda and by his disciples, His Holiness Surabhīr Abhipālayantam Swami, ISKCON Māyāpur Project architect and director of construction; His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami, ISKCON Māyāpur project president and Governing Body Commissioner; Śrī Patita Pāvana dāsa Brahmacārī, Bhakti Śāstrī, ISKCON Māyāpur; and the editors of Back to Godhead magazine, ISKCON Press, Los Angeles, California."

Prabhupāda: Perfect article.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Patita Pāvana..." And it says also, "...the editors of Back to Godhead magazine, ISKCON Press, Los Angeles, California."

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: (indistinct)

Discussions -- June 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Girirāja: Then we can type it. "I, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, Founder-Ācārya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, settler of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, and disciple of Oṁ Viṣṇupāda 108 Śrī Śrīmad Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja Prabhupāda, presently residing at Śrī Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Mandir in Vṛndāvana, make this, my last will. 1. The Governing Body Commission, GBC, will be the trustees of the entire International Society for Krishna Consciousness."

Prabhupāda: You can... Then there will be question, "The trust deed will be given? Then there will tax."

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And in due course of time he can earn his... How to cultivate land... Why so many big, big universities for inviting everyone? There is no need. Educated means brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya. Brāhmaṇa will give real knowledge, and kṣatriyas will govern. For vaiśyas and śūdras, there is no... It is waste of time. Formerly it was done so. The vaiśyas, they have got a son, goes to a shopkeeper: "Please here let my son work with you. He doesn't want any salary." So he gets engagement. Then, by seeing, seeing, he becomes little important. And the proprietor gives him some hand expense. And then, one day, he becomes very expert. He starts his own business. That was the system. Why he should go and waste time for education? A boy is given to a carpenter. He learns very easily.

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This one Dr. Sharma wanted to open a Gurukula account. So they told him, "You have no authority whatsoever. Bhagatji has no authority, Akṣayānanda has no authority, Gopāla... Only Prabhupāda has authority." The funny thing about this, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is that according to our memorandum, they're not correct. Actually, according to the memorandum, two members of the Bureau can pass a resolution to open an account. But the most amazing thing is they don't accept the Bureau. They accept something called the Governing Body, which legally in India doesn't have any weight. And when I tried to explain to them that there's a memorandum and there's a Bureau, they said, "We don't accept it. Everything is Prabhupāda, and he's the chairman of the Governing Body." When I told this to Girirāja, Girirāja just laughed and said that...

Prabhupāda: If Girirāja can deal with these men, then let him do it immediately.

Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. It is nonsense that matter gives life. That we want to prove. Matter has no... Matter, I have studied it. Life is superior energy. Apareyam. This matter is useless. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ manaḥ (BG 7.4). They are inferior. Apareyam itas tv viddhi me prakṛtim. Another, yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). This is actually governing the whole universe. They have defied this apareyaṁ me prakṛ..., parām. They have not accepted. The scientists are speculators, most of them. Philosopher means materially thinking.

Brahmānanda: Materially...

Prabhupāda: Thinking.