Prabhupāda: There is no conflict at all. The conflict is between persons who are godless, who does not believe in God. Conflict is there. The conflict is not between East and West; the conflict is between the atheists and the theists. We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not that we are trying to replace something by Indian method to Christian method or Jewish method. That is not our policy. This is... In one sense, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the post-graduate study of all religions. What is the method of religion? To accept the authority of God. That is the primary principle of every religion, may be Christian religion or Hindu religion or Mohammedan religion. It doesn't matter. But people are becoming godless. That is the problem. They are thinking that "There is no God. Nature is everything." That is their foolishness. They are unhappy for this godlessness. And as a result of this godlessness, the Communist party have sprang up, the hippies have sprang up and so many other things will gradually spring up. So there is no check. It is... The only check is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if people are taught that he can be happy only by reestablishing his eternal relationship with God. So our test of religion is how one has developed his God consciousness or love of God. We do not accept any principle of religion as genuine if we see that the followers have no love of God but they have got love of matter. We testify the, I mean to say, bona fides of a religious principle... Of course, in religious principle there is the teaching to become God conscious, to accept the authority of God, but because they are not properly taught, the followers are becoming godless, not only here, in India also.
Godless (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Allen Ginsberg: Transcendental cheating.
Prabhupāda: (chuckling) Just like sometimes father has to cheat his child. That is not cheating. That is welfare. But apparently it (looks) likes cheating. A child is insistent on some point. "Yes, yes. You are all right. But you do this like this. Yes, you are very good boy." Like that. But Vaiṣṇava, in Vaiṣṇava literature, in Vedic literature, he is God. The godless worshiping God in a different way. If there is nothing, why they should worship Buddha even?
Allen Ginsberg: They don't... Well, strictly speaking, one does not worship Buddha.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, they have many big, big temples in Burma and Japan.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahād guṇā (SB 5.18.12). If one is Godless, he cannot have any good qualities.
Revatīnandana: Supposing somebody has got smallpox. Smallpox means sores appear on the body and very high fever also. So one doctor who's less intelligent says, "He's got a fever because he has sores." So he puts medicine on the sores. Sores go away and the man dies. Another doctor says, "He's got sores and a fever. This means he has got smallpox." So he gives him some medicine to cure the disease, and then the sores automatically go away. The root cause of all... There are so many troubles in the world. The root cause is Godlessness. People are not God conscious. If that is there, it will automatically put everything in the right perspective and everybody will be able to live harmoniously and peacefully because they will be satisfied and happy in themselves.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) All of them work for this movement.
Dr. Singh: It is your power working through all of them, I am sure.
Śyāmasundara: In the beginning of this chapter (indistinct) you talked about men who lead (indistinct).
Dr. Singh: Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). That is (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: That is scientific. Our (indistinct) has gone to hell. How the people will come to (indistinct). They don't care for God, godless existence. (indistinct)
Dr. Singh: (indistinct) difficult to do, but in one's own way one tries. What a man is Śrī Caitanya.
Prabhupāda: I said that our government should give me facility (indistinct).
Dr. Singh: I know him very well. He's a very good friend of mine, Swami Raghunātha. (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: So why not (indistinct) what I have done? What fault I have?
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Similarly, Kṛṣṇa being the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as soon as we think of Kṛṣṇa (it) means all energies of Kṛṣṇa. That is complete by saying "Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa." Rādhā represents all the energy of Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. So when we speak of Kṛṣṇa, the living entities are also included. Because the living entities are energies, different energies of Kṛṣṇa, superior energy. So when this energy is not serving the energetic, that means material existence. The whole world is not serving Kṛṣṇa. They are serving Kṛṣṇa in a different way. they are serving Kṛṣṇa indirectly. Just like disobedient citizens, they serve the government indirectly. They have come to the prison house on account of their disobedience of the laws of the state. So in the prison house they're forced to obey the laws of the state. Similarly, all the living entities here, they're godless. Either by ignorance or by his will, he doesn't like to accept the supremacy of God. Demonic. So we are trying to bring them in their original condition. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Prabhupāda: Watchtower. They have complained(?). So we have nothing to (indistinct) them. The world is degrading to the lowest status, even less than animal. The animal also do not support homosex. They have never sex life between male to male. They are less than animal. People are becoming less than animal. This is all due to godlessness. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā (SB 5.18.12), godless civilization cannot have any good qualities. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano rathena asato dhāvato... They simply go to the untruth by mental speculation.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Then He must be proprietor. But we are falsely claiming that, "I am the proprietor." So how you can be in peace? Suppose you steal something, somebody's property, and falsely claim, "I am proprietor," you'll never be peace because it is not your thing. You have stolen it. So in this way, if you... philosophy can be studied that God is the Supreme Proprietor, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthāḥ (ISO 1). You can simply use what is given to you. You cannot claim other's property. Just like in animal life, animal life, they do not claim that "This is my country." The birds, they do not claim, but they live very peacefully. There are crows, there are spa... What is called? So many birds, they live anywhere, everywhere, but they do not claim, "Oh, this is my country. This is my place." They do not claim. Therefore they are free to move everywhere. So we have created a situation, Godless situation, therefore we are not in peace. So therefore, if you want peace, you must accept God, first of all. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati (BG 5.29), this is the way of śānti. You cannot create your śānti in your own way. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Many visitors are waiting to see the tomb of Lenin. Yes. They were worshiping Lenin. As we are worshiping Kṛṣṇa, they are worshiping Lenin. So I, I asked Professor Kotovsky: "Where is the difference in principle? You are also worshiping somebody. So you, you have not been able to stop worshiping. How you can be Godless. You have made your God, that's all. Somebody false God." I did not say him also that: "This is your false God," but I said that: "You are worshiping Lenin. We are worshiping Kṛṣṇa." Where is the difference in philosophy? "You have to worship somebody." Now it is my selection whether I shall worship Lenin or Kṛṣṇa. That is different thing. But the principle of worshiping is there in you and in me." He could not answer. What he'll answer? Everywhere it is going on.
Prabhupāda: Your process. Your process is, you are trying to ascend. But we are taking knowledge from directly God. That is the difference.
Krishna Tiwari: That's where my trouble is, and I...
Prabhupāda: No, no, your trouble must be there.
Krishna Tiwari: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Because you're godless.
Krishna Tiwari: Oh, no. Not true.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is your problem.
Krishna Tiwari: No, no... Okay, go on saying like that. Fine. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Yes, because you are godless in this sense: because you are born in India, born in a brāhmaṇa family, and you do not believe Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Lord.
Krishna Tiwari: Oh. I do not believe, but uh, I do believe that God is, but I do not understand whether the... (indistinct) God or not. I don't know.
Prabhupāda: You do not understand, that is your godlessness. That is your godlessness, because...
Krishna Tiwari: No, that's not my godlessness at all. (laughs)
Devotee (1): Please listen while he explains the process of how to know God.
Prabhupāda: Brāhmaṇa means one who knows the Brahman Brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇa. So at least you are not a brāhmaṇa, because you do not know the Brahman.
Prabhupāda: No, we, we... Our proposition is, our proposition is that sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). "That is first-class religion which teaches the followers how to love God." This is our proposal.
Mr. Wadell: Well, we shall see. We have a lot to... (laughs) It is quite possible that I too have been sent.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Give him some prasāda. Just wait little. Take prasādam. Our only fighting is against atheism, godlessness. This is our main fight.
Mr. Wadell: I agree.
Prabhupāda: Yes. People say, "There is no God, God is dead. This is all humbug." And so many there are, atheistic proposals. We are giving fight against this atheism.
Lord Brockway: It's only when you have those two things together...
Prabhupāda: Yes, we have got...
Lord Brockway: ...that you can bring about a solution.
Prabhupāda: Because people are godless at the present moment, they're suffering.
Lord Brockway: It's not only because of that.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Lord Brockway: It's not only...
Prabhupāda: That is the only cause.
Prabhupāda: He tried to find out the brain of God. So he's not rascal. He's sane man. Those who are defying God, they're rascal, demons. Einstein believed in God. Yes. There are many scientists, they believe in God. Harāv abhaktasya kuto... Unless one is God conscious, he's a rascal. Immediately, take it. We take it like that. As soon as you say godless, atheist, oh, a rascal. That's all. It may be the understanding of God is not so perfect. But he thinks there is God. That is intelligence. That is intelligence. And the demons will never accept God. Just like in Russia. All set of rascals. They do not believe in God.
Hṛdayānanda: You're too intelligent for the atheists.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Atheist means criminal, they're punishable, that's all. And the more people becoming godless, they're being punished by nature.
Devotee (2): Actually by the law of conservation of energy reincarnation can be explained.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (2): By their own law.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Umāpati: But there are those who appear... At least, they think, they feel they are sincere when they go through austerities, but they won't accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness as, at this point in their, in their existence.
Prabhupāda: No, some atheists say that "We are Godless because nobody has convinced us about the existence of God." That is honesty. That is honesty. But there are rascals, however you may convince him, he'll not take it. That is rascaldom.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There are so many things. Actually, if the American nation take it seriously, "In God we trust," ...They must take it seriously because it is Constitution. Then the whole world will change. The whole world will change. Not only that. The Americans... Just like they are always combatting with the Communists. Similarly, the American nation should be so strong that anyone godless, he should be fired. Any nation who does not believe in God, war declared. "Either you believe in God or come on. Fight. Come under us."
Prajāpati: These leaders, they must be above suspicion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Caesar's wife must be above suspicion." If the leaders, the priests and the executive heads are all rascal rogues, thieves, and within suspicion, then how there can be, I mean to say, peace in the world? This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement,... War was declared against Arjuna because he's, he was sinful. Therefore Kṛṣṇa declared war, "You must kill them. You must kill them, Arjuna." Arjuna was declined, "Oh, let them go. They are my brothers." "No, you must kill them. Don't talk nonsense." That is Kṛṣṇa's idea. That is Bhagavad-gītā. The whole Bhagavad-gītā was spoken just to induce Arjuna to kill the godless, the sinful. That is Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: ...two classes of men: the communist and the non-communist. Not exactly communist and capitalist, but communist and non-communist. Out of these two, the communists are going to be powerful. This is the world tendency. So if the world becomes full of communists, then the human civilization will be finished. All rogues and rascals, that's all. The American government wants to check this tendency. But they cannot check it if they remain "so-called trust in God." That will not be possible. So according to our proposition... Not only now, it is forever. Two classes of men are there: sura and asura. Surāsura. Viṣṇu-bhakto bhaved devaḥ. Deva and sura, the same thing. Asuras tad viparyayaḥ. And the asura, or the demons, godless. So if the Americans remain godless in the name of so-called trust in God, they will not be able to check this communistic movement. They will not be able. Now, if they are serious to check this communistic movement, save the American country as well as the whole world, then they must be very serious to understand what is God and what is trust in God. Otherwise this communistic movement will finish the civilized human society.
Prabhupāda: That everyone is taking chance. A poor man is taking chance to become rich man. So what is the difference between the poor man taking chance and the scientist? (break)
Yaśomatīnandana: :...which into all the characteristics are described in Divine and Demoniac natures. This modern world fits into all the demoniac qualities...
Prabhupāda: Yes, because they are godless. Whole modern world is godless. They don't think of God very seriously. Everyone. They have described it as "Opiate," what is that?
Karandhara: "Opium of the people."
Prabhupāda: Yes. They think, "Those who are religious, they are simply wasting their time." Therefore communist country, they are completely against religion. They cannot allow their people to waste their time. That is their philosophy. This is the condition of the world.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is the symptom of material nature.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this yajña means to satisfy the Lord. Yajñārthe karma. So when you miss this yajña, then everything becomes disturbed. When you become godless then the whole thing will be disturbed. And practically also, if you pay income tax, then government arrangement is everything, nicely going on. And as soon as stop income tax, then whole thing... There is no finance, there is deficit, this, that, so many things. So yajña is yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra. Everything should be done for the Yajña, for Viṣṇu. Then everything is in order. In Kali-yuga, other, costly yajñas are not possible. Therefore yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyaiḥ. Saṅkīrtana. But these rascals will not take. If you say that "This simple yajña, you take it. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. All problems will be solved," they will not believe. They will not take it. They are so misfortunate. Śāstra says, yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32). Su-medhasaḥ. Those who have got good brain, they take up this yajña process. Su-medhasaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Simply they're rascals and who are bewildered by rascals, they are also rascals. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). He's an animal, and their work is appreciated by another animal. The so-called scientists' advancement of knowledge is appreciated by another rascal, not any intelligent man. We can appreciate, but when they're godless, we kick him out. Just see. This is the... Now, this is a solid thing. How it grows and how the water comes? Now it will not grow. Because (it is) detached. But if it remains attached, it will grow. So wherefrom the water is coming?
Bali Mardana: From the ground.
Prabhupāda: And you'll find that it is well protected cell, and you find two pieces of cāpāṭi and one glass of water, ready. No need of cooking. Yes. You simply take. Take the water and take the pulp and eat pulp and the glass of water. That's all. Your meal is finished; luncheon is finished. You don't require.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Some, there is some... There is some reason. But they have no such thing. So therefore they are advanced. They have no such anxiety. You are less than animal.
Guest (1): No, that's right Swamiji, but what my question is...
Prabhupāda: That is... First answer is this, that you are bothered for increased population, but the animals are not. Therefore they are more advanced than you. They know that there is no botheration. Because in the Vedic injunction it is said, eko yo bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. Now, there are millions of elephants in Africa. Who is feeding them? Who is feeding them? They eat at one time one mound. Where the food is coming from? Why you are bothered? You'll take only one chaṭāka. That means you are godless. You do not know who is supplying your food. You are less than animal. That is my answer.
Prabhupāda: Same thing here even. Majority wants to be godless. So government is following that. Therefore they are against our movement. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Jaya. Namaskāra. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Now the vox populi. Majority wants to become drunkards. "All right, it is legalized." Majority wants prostitute hunters. "All right. It is legalized." This is government. No consideration of morality or religion. Majority wants, it must be given.
Dr. Patel: No, but, I mean, it is all... It must fall. There is no culture. This is a total degeneration of the humanity at large.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They must suffer. And they're suffering. Still, they're blind.
Devotee: They're self-interested. They're making money and forgetting the public.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Godless. They must be like that. Gandhi was a student of Bhagavad-gītā—never taught about Kṛṣṇa. This is his knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā, Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee: They want the material after killing the source. After killing the cows, they want milk. After...
Prabhupāda: Gandhi was approached by the Hindus that "You are doing so much for the Mohammedans. The Mohammedans are obedient. So why don't you stop this cow killing?" "How can I interfere with their religious?" Just see.
Prabhupāda: The whole worldly affairs is going on... The godless atheists, they cannot understand it, that behind this prakṛti, the wonderful prakṛti, so many things happening... It is not happening independently.
Dr. Patel: By the order of God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Mayādhyakṣeṇa: "Under My control."
Prabhupāda: Well, people, people have become godless everywhere. It doesn't matter whether he is a Christian or Muhammadan or Hindu. That is a general disease. So actually, everyone is concerned now with material comforts. But these material comforts mean wine and women, that's all. Substance of material comforts. So that they have enjoyed enough. The facility of enjoying woman and getting money, there is no limit. There is no limit. Anyone, the money is thrown in the street. You can simply collect. And similarly, women are available. So actually, they do not get any happiness by these material elements. They are seeking after something, that's a fact.
Richard Webster: Yes, but I mean in the West it's a very different kind of difficulty...
Prabhupāda: Everywhere it is difficult because people have become godless. Still, we have to try our best. The task is difficult, undoubtedly. It is very difficult task, to bring back people to God consciousness. But still we have to do it to satisfy God. He wants it.
Richard Webster: Well, I'm so very glad. Thank you very much.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Missing... The point is God. He was atheist. He did not believe in Kṛṣṇa.
Yogeśvara: But from the level of application of his programs, is there some value?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is good program, to produce your own necessities of life. That is good idea. But he could not turn the people, because they are godless. Godless man cannot have any good qualification. I requested him to become God conscious and preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He thought it ludicrous. Yes. He was such a godless man.
Yogeśvara: All Indians worship Gandhi.
Prabhupāda: Then how he was killed? That is the proof. Otherwise, how was he killed?
Yogeśvara: Every place we go, we see Indian's homes, pictures of Gandhi on their tables.
Prabhupāda: You, you have not visited everyone's house here. The three, four house you have visited. That's all.
Guru-gaurāṅga: Many churches in Geneva? No.
Prabhupāda: No.
Guru-gaurāṅga: Not so many.
Prabhupāda: That means godless. Eh?
Guru-gaurāṅga: Yes.
Prabhupāda: When I first came to America, Butler, in Pennsylvania, that is small county, but at least one dozen churches I found. I very much appreciated, that the people are not... And they're going regularly, churches. I was invited in many churches. I was...
Yogeśvara: To lecture?
Prabhupāda: Yes. The, the girl, that, my friend's son's wife... He's Indian. He has married an English girl. So I was guest at his house. So that girl, Sally... Selly or Sally?
Yogeśvara: Sally.
Prabhupāda: She was arranging so many meetings. She was very intelligent girl. So churches, many churches, she... Some of the churches purchased my books.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere. It is a civilization of rascals. That's all. That duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina means they have got merit. As human being, everyone has got merit. That is used for sinful activities. That's all. Duṣkṛtina. Therefore they are godless. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). All these sinful men, rascals, they don't care for God. They don't care for next life. This is the position. They don't believe in these things. If they believe in these things, they'll have to be systematized. They don't want that. The life is, what is called, extravagancy? No? Now it is a... Systematically they are following. The karmīs, they work hard, whole week, and the end of the weekend, they call any beautiful woman, pay her something, don't take responsibility of family life. This has become a system.
Devotee (4): Because they have not realized that we have taken a responsibility. When a man has a responsibility, usually he is given some certain facilities to carry out that responsibility.
Prabhupāda: Everyone cent percent godless, neither they have got intelligence to understand what is God. This is going on.
Yogeśvara: Then we are giving them the intelligence as well as the answers? Because if they have no intelligence to understand...
Prabhupāda: Yes, our organization is that. Why you are opening so many centers? Just to give these rascals intelligence. Why Krsna is recognizing so nicely a preacher? Because He knows that he has to face so many difficulties. It is not easy going. Armchair politician, no. He has to face so many difficulties.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the consciousness, my consciousness... The consciousness of those living cells are dependent on my consciousness.
Prabhupāda: No, that consciousness is not developed. It is not equal to your consciousness. Just like a child's consciousness is not equal to your consciousness because he's not yet developed, similarly, this human life is the full-fledged... Not full-fledged. Almost full demonstration of consciousness. We have to utilize it for higher understanding. From material conditions, the consciousness develops. On account of loss of consciousness, they become godless. So it requires time. So this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is to help them to develop consciousness very quickly. Yes. Otherwise, it will take millions of years. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścit yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). We are helping people to develop that original consciousness very quickly.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (1) (Indian gentleman): You are very right in saying this because we cannot solve any problem. The problems keep on multiplying. When we solve one problem, there are twenty ahead of us.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Especially now all the governments all over the world are broke. They have no money.
Prabhupāda: There will be very, very big chaos, this godless civilization. And it is distinctly said, "There will be no grain, no sugar, no milk." These things will be stopped. Eat your sons and daughter. You are very much fond of eating meat. Eat your son. They will do that. I think they are doing now. You know that?
Guest: In Africa, yes.
Prabhupāda: Not Africa.
Journalist: How would you say this godlessness is...
Prabhupāda: Godlessness is one does not know what is God. And just like you know me. You have come to me. You know I am a person, I am talking, I have written so many books. This is knowing me. Similarly, one must know what is God, what is His feature, what does He do, what does He teach, what law He gives. This is knowing God. Simply to understand, "Oh, well, that is God. Let Him remain at His place, and let me do whatever I like," that is not understanding of God. You must know God just like you must know your father. If you are interested with your father's property, then you must know your father, who is your father.
Journalist: How is this godlessness showing itself in our society?
Prabhupāda: Godlessness means foolishness because...
Journalist: Is liquor... Too much liquor and self-indulgence?
Prabhupāda: There are details. There are so many things. The total is rascaldom and foolishness. Godlessness means rascaldom and foolishness.
Prabhupāda: They will take because people are becoming godless. That is the defect. People are becoming hippies, godless. This material world is full of miseries because most people are godless. Here... Material world means avoiding God. That is the sum and substance of material world. They are trying to avoid, becoming independent of God. That is their endeavor. The scientist, the philosopher, the politician—everyone is trying that. Therefore they are suffering. Māyā is there. Just like a criminal, if he says "I don't care for government," the police will take care of. That is certain.
Prabhupāda: I have seen many of my students, their family, whole family disrupt on account of father and mother, even in old age, divorce. I have seen Brahmānanda's mother. His father was very... still living. Very good businessman, very nice family, good income. All of a sudden the father and mother disagreed, they divorce. The sons were somewhere; the daughters were somewhere.
Director: That's cases we deal with. Adoption, and...
Prabhupāda: And the father married again, the mother married again. They were not happy, and the business also closed. So by one instance I can understand that how in the Western countries people become out of social structure. The root cause is godlessness. Root cause.
Prabhupāda: His ideal is all right. His ideal, Communist idea that everyone should be happy, that is good idea. But they do not know how make ev... Just like they are taking care of the human being in the state, but they are sending poor animals to the slaughterhouse. Because they are godless, they do not know the animal is also a living being and the human being also living being. So for the satisfaction of the tongue of the human being the animal should be cut throat. That is the defect. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). One who is learned, he is equal to everyone. That is learned. "I take care of my brother and I kill you," that is not right. That is going on. Everywhere. Nationalism. Nation... National means one who has taken birth in that land. But the animal, poor animal, because they cannot make any protest, send them to the slaughterhouse. And if there were ideal men, they would have protested, "Oh, why you are doing this? Let them live also. You live also.
Devotee: He said that "I could not live without illicit sex life."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Mostly the bachelor daddy. They pose themself as bachelor, but they are having at least three times sex with contraceptive method, you see. This is going on. And they are accepted as standard. And if you want to reform it, then it is (indistinct). The whole basic wrong is they have become godless animals, that's all. The only method is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no other second method. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. You cannot raise anybody to high qualities unless he is Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is a subtle fact. And example is there. Because some of them have taken to Kṛṣṇa conscious they are ideal. All others, what is the value? He is a leader, and he says, "Yes, illicit sex is all right. We are enjoying by contraceptive method." If the leaders do something wrong, the others will follow. (to devotee:) I think you should continue as a gṛhastha for the time being.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is to be united first, that... First thing is that everyone should be convinced or understand clearly that everything belongs to God. But they have no conception of God even. That is the difficulty. The whole human society at the present moment, majority, they are Godless, especially the Communists. They don't acknowledge. The scientist, the philosopher, the scholars—all Godless. Scientists' special business is how to defy God. They say, "Science is everything. We can do everything by science." There is no need of God. Huh?
Guest 2: I don't think so any more. They're a lot more enlightened.
Prabhupāda: Not any more?
Guest 2: Well, in some circles, yes I think.
Prabhupāda: That was never any more, but if they are realizing that, that is very good.
Paramahaṁsa: That's in America. It's one of the states in America, right next to Texas.
Yogi Bhajan: Yeah. Santa Fe. We have decided that this is the time for everybody to get together and get their scene together and merge together.
Prabhupāda: They will never. (laughs) You may call all conferences, hundreds and thousands, but they will never, because there is no common platform. Godless.
Yogi Bhajan: That is what we are trying to provide.
Prabhupāda: But you are trying, that's nice, but it will be never successful. You can write it down.
Yogi Bhajan: Well, perhaps it is very simple. Somebody has to break the ice.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Our definition is the same in the Upaniṣad, that everything belongs to God. As you think everything belongs to the state, we think everything belongs to God. So you can utilize your possession, what is alloted to you. Don't encroach upon others. So people are not thinking in that way. First beginning is that you Americans, you are thinking this America land is your, although two hundred years ago it was not your. You have come from other parts of the world. Now you are claiming it is your land. But actually it is God's land. So God's land belongs to everyone. Everyone is God's children. That is our broad conception. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: (ISO 1) "Everything belongs to God." So people have no conception of God. Everyone is practically godless. Therefore they should be educated about God. Just like the Communists. They are educating godlessness. Similarly... Just like in America they say, your government says, "We trust in God." Is it not?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: It is not difficult, very simple task. To ask them "Please come here, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, dance, and take sumptuously prasādam, go home"—where is the difficulty? And they are coming; we are doing that. But we are doing—because we have no money—we are doing on a small scale. But if the government gives us facility we can expand this scale. That's all. We are collecting money... Of course we are doing our business by selling these books. We have got many books. And we are inviting men; they are coming, and gradually increasing. There is no dearth of men or devotees. But the government is faced with these difficulties, "Crime, why and what to do?" So we are suggesting this: because they are unclean in their heart, therefore there is crime and take this process, it will be successful. This is our... They are faced with the problem, "Why crime and what to do?" And we are giving the answer. So you take advantage of it. Why? We are saying, "Because they are godless." And what to do? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam. Now, if you like, you can take. Otherwise, we are doing our own business. Just like a poor medical man.
Prabhupāda: Fool is also frightened when there is stick. Everyone is frightened. That is the one of the conditions of material life. As eating is one of the items, similarly frightening is also... And the more one is godless, he is more frightened.
Paramahaṁsa: There is this question about these, again, UFO's, whether or not they are agressive or if they will bring us more knowledge than what we have. So there's this fear, uncertainty. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...sataḥ syāt. This frightfulness is due to unawareness of God. The more one is unaware of God, he is more frightened. One who is fully conscious of God, he is not frightened because he knows, "Everything is God. Why shall I afraid?"
Paramahaṁsa: Even death.
Prabhupāda: Death is already declared that "I am death." Kṛṣṇa says. So there is no question of.
Brahmānanda: Because they have not realized that we have taken a responsibility. When a man has a responsibility usually he is given some certain facilities to carry out that responsibility.
Prabhupāda: Everyone, cent percent godless, neither they have got intelligence to understand what is God. This is the position.
Yogeśvara: Then we are giving them the intelligence as well as the answers? Because if they have no intelligence to understand...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Our organization is that. Why we are opening so many centers? Just to give these rascals intelligence. Why Kṛṣṇa is recognizing so nicely a preacher? Because He knows that he has to face so many difficulties. He is not easygoing, armchair politician, no. He has to face so many difficulties.
Pṛthu-putra: I read in one of your books so many names about different groups of these Māyāvādī philosophers. Are they still existing today and active?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyone who thinks godlessness, he is Māyāvādī, that's all. Anyone. All these impersonalists, they are all Māyāvādīs. And mostly they are now impersonalists.
Dhṛṣṭaketu: So although we can't see it with our material eyes, their position is very precarious.
Prabhupāda: We have no eyes to see. We see through Kṛṣṇa. As Kṛṣṇa sees, we see. This is Kṛṣṇa conscious. We are not perfect. Our position is that we are not perfect. But we are perfect so long we follow Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Just like I am blind man. I am not perfect. But if you have got eyes, if you take me I follow you. Then I am perfect. Kṛṣṇa assures that "You surrender to Me and I will make you free from all dangers," and we accept Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Our method is very easy.
Dhṛṣṭaketu: When Kṛṣṇa would play His flute then the airplanes would come and...
Prabhupāda: Where is Kṛṣṇa playing flute?
Dhṛṣṭaketu: In Vṛndāvana?
Prabhupāda: Oh. Then why the airplanes do not come Delhi? (laughter) (pause) He is godless and we have to fight against them. Just see our position. We have to fight with the whole world.
Prabhupāda: So unless one agrees you cannot turn him. It is not possible. Five-years'-old boy, staunch devotee, and the powerful Hiraṇyakaśipu, father, who is threatening with his life and so many ways he tried that "You become atheist, godless. Otherwise I shall kill you." He did not agree. And similarly, the son also solicited the father that "You have got so much power by the grace of God. Why you are becoming atheist?" Both of them could not turn to their side. Prahlāda remained Prahlāda, and Hiraṇyakaśipu remained Hiraṇyakaśipu. (break) ...can expect that without agreeing, conceding, one can be reformed. No, that is not possible. Impossible.
Prabhupāda: Mūḍha, narādhama māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15). They have no knowledge. "Why no knowledge? Degrees." No, this is māyā. "What is the cause?" Aśuri-bhavam aśritaḥ: Godless rascal. Therefore he's a mūḍha.
Harikeśa: So it's not that we're so much concerned about science but rather the aśuravāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: We don't have to research because our conclusion is already there.
Prabhupāda: Already there. And it is acting, practical. How from the stone this has come? Stone and sand, but they are life; it is green.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. She is an arya, so... But she believes in God, but she is not surrendered. Prabhupāda: arya-samājīs, do they believe in God? I don't think.
Dr. Patel: That one man told you, and you have been, I mean, deriding all the scientists.
Prabhupāda: No, no, mostly they are speaking that way.
Dr. Patel: You are very harsh to the scientists.
Prabhupāda: But they have created havoc, godlessness, atheism, all over the world. That is our protest.
Dr. Patel: And we are taking the benefit of that science by flying by the plane, by going by train...
Prabhupāda: It has become a difficult task.
Prabhupāda: All sinful activity. Ugra-karma. And if you drink wine, then you must require meat. Otherwise your liver function will be bad. There must be lump of meat. And as soon as wine and meat combine, then you require illicit sex. It is one after another. This is scientific. So we stop immediately: "Stop these four principles." Then one will be free from sinful life. Then he'll understand what is God. Otherwise not possible. A sinful man cannot understand what is God. Why the whole world is godless? On account of the sinful life, they cannot understand.
Dr. Patel: No, no. Other civilized people's forefathers. (laughs) The Āryan race. Nyāya vaiśeṣika also has told the same thing. This, such śāstra, I mean darśanas, are all from the Vedas. They are all from the Vedas you see.
Prabhupāda: No, they are not strictly Vedas. They are partial. Just like mimāṁsa. They say that you do good work and you get the result. That is godlessness.
Dr. Patel: Karma-mimāṁsa, karma-kāṇḍīs.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: But a karma-kāṇḍī is one of the...
Prabhupāda: "There is no need of God. You do your duty."
Dr. Patel: What he says, sir...
Prabhupāda: No, no. I am not argument about him. I mean to say, Vaiṣṇava means para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Vaiṣṇava should be always duḥkhī for others. Vaiṣṇava personally, he has no duḥkha. That is Prahlāda Mahārāja says, naivodhvije para duratyay vaitaranyas tvad-viya-gayana-mahamrta-magna-cittaḥ, soce tato vimukh-cetasa. They are simply anxious for the persons who are godless. That is their... Even they are godless, even they are enemy of the devotee, still Vaiṣṇava thinks, "How I can correct him?" Not that "He's my enemy. Let him die." "How I shall correct him?" That is Vaiṣṇava, para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. He is under ignorance, he is talking nonsense—"How shall I correct him?" That is missionary spirit.
Prabhupāda: And bhakta... Caitanya Mahāprabhu is teaching tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. There is no education; therefore Kṛṣṇa has spoken of these people as mūḍha. "No, they are educated. They have passed so many examination"—māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. This kind of education has no value because they are forgetting the real point of education. māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritaḥ (BG 7.15).
Dr. Patel: So what is āsurī, would be...
Prabhupāda: Āsurī means godlessness. "There is no God; I am God."
Dr. Patel: Believing in the...
Prabhupāda: No, no. "There is no God. I am God." What is that beginning? Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca na vidur āsura ajana (sic) (BG 16.7), and? There is no creator? What is the exact word?
Harikeśa: Apratiṣṭham.
Prabhupāda: Apratiṣṭham. There is no cause of this creation. Kāma-haitukam: it has taken place just like a man becomes lusty by seeing a woman and he begets a child. This is the cause, this rascal desire. That's all.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) So you know better than me.
Dr. Patel: No, no. I did not know this, I read it...
Prabhupāda: But I know, what is his policy? His policy was to make this godless men to think of God, that "I am God." That is.... Let him be accustomed with the word God, then gradually he will understand. It is called ahaṅgrahopāsana. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Therefore I shall worship myself. Ahaṅgrahopāsana Nikatena, jagatena, ekatena. It is mentioned in the Bhāgavata, ekatena. That "I am Brahma. So I shall worship myself."
Prabhupāda: And this culture cannot be maintained unless one is God conscious. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā (SB 5.18.12). There cannot be any culture for a godless person. That is not possible. And, yasyāsti-bhaktir bhagavaty-akiñcanā. Just like this European and American boy is offering obeisances to the guru, this is culture. Why he has learned this culture? Because he has become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Therefore yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā, sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ. If you make one devotee of Kṛṣṇa, then all culture will automatically come. One thing.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Eh? Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano-rathenāsato dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). One who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has got all the good qualities. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcana sarvair guṇaiḥ: "All good qualities can be manifest." And harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ: "And one who is not devotee, he has no good qualities." "Why? He is so educated." No, mano-rathena: "He is hovering over the mind." Asāto dhāvato bahiḥ: "He will stick to this asat." But the Vedic injunction is asato mā sad gamaya. He cannot go to the real platform of life. Asato bahiḥ. They do not understand that this godless civilization is the root cause of all calamities in the world. (Hindi) Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. The Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. Twenty-four hours you have to do that. But where is twenty-four hours? You will not twenty-four minutes.
Hariśauri: Advanced demoniac knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Advanced demon. Actually they are advanced demons, asura, asurī-bhāvam āśritaḥ, being infected with the contamination of atheism, godlessness. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa.... (chants japa)
Hariśauri: They're actually very expert at avoiding the real issues.
Prabhupāda: No. How they can have standard? Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. How they can have good standard? Because they are atheists, godless, there cannot be. That is the test. As soon as he is godless, he's rascal. Never mind M.A., Ph.D. That's all. This is our conclusion. As soon as you know that "Here is a godless atheist," he is rascal. Bas, finished. Exactly like.... Suppose you are in India, and if you think, "No, there is no government. It is going on automatically," then you are rascal, immediately. Is it very sane man, sane man's statement, statement, that "No, no, there is no God. It is going on"? So atheist means rascal. Such a nice arrangement is going on, exactly at 6:15 the sun is there, and "There is no government. There is no God." Just see how rascaldom. And then what it is? "By chance." And he is scientist. We have to consider them educated scientists? Are we going to be fooled like that? "There is no government." "There is no father." How the child came? "There is no father." Just see. A woman has got a child. And if somebody says, "Yes, she has got child, but there is no need of a father," is that sane man's proposal? Nature is producing, and nature is prakṛti, but where is the puruṣa? Prakṛti-puruṣa. So without puruṣa, how prakṛti can produce? That puruṣaṁ śāśvatam ādyam, Kṛṣṇa.... Is that all right?
Devotee (1): Puruṣaṁ śāśvataṁ divyam ādi-devam ajaṁ vibhum.
Prabhupāda: Ādi-puruṣam. Govindam ādi-puruṣam, that puruṣa. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. We are worshiping that supreme and original person. And the women are declaring, "independent." They are begging door to door to a man, "Please give me shelter. Give me a child," and they're independent. One American woman, was.... She was speaking that "In India the woman are treated as slave. We don't want." So I told her that it is better to become slave of one person than to slave of become hundreds.
Dr. Patel: Sir, this civilization is degrading because of the cinemas and things. The mothers are the really...
Prabhupāda: And you do not know. Cinema is not cause. Cause is godlessness.
Dr. Patel: But because the godlessness starts from there.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no.
Dr. Patel: Who are the ideals of these women? The cinema actresses. Who were the ideals of our mothers? Sāvitrī and Sītā.
Prabhupāda: There are so many, so many.
Prabhupāda: Simply faith, blind faith we do not endure. And therefore they are becoming godless. And gradually, if we do not understand factually what is God, then the whole human civilization will be godless. To become godless means again animal. That is the difference between animal and man. In the animal society there is no question of religion, faith, God. These things are not there. The human civilization, if it becomes like that, without any faith in God, without any understanding of God, then where is the difference between cats and dogs and human beings? They must know God scientifically. That is the actual aim of human life. Suppose the dog is sleeping on the street without any care whether a car is coming and smash it. He's also sleeping sound sleep. And we are sleeping in a very nice apartment. So after all, sleeping. And he is also enjoying sleeping, I am also enjoying sleeping. So do you think to change the, I mean to say, circumstances of the sleeping? I am sleeping in a very nice apartment, he's sleeping on the floor. Does it mean this is advancement of civilization? Sleeping is sleeping. Eating is eating.
Prabhupāda: That means whatever we do, we do in ignorance. You do not know what is the first thing or what to do first. That we are correcting. Here is the first thing. Pour water in the root.
Jackie Vaughn: Right.
Prabhupāda: We are correcting-Kṛṣṇa, or God, then everything will be all right. Otherwise failure. Now you American people you write, "In God We Trust." But if I ask you "What is God?" you cannot reply. Then how do you trust in God? Blindly. If we trust in God, we must know that God is actually the only trustworthy person. Then if I put my trust in Him, that is sensible. But if I do not know what is God, no idea, and if we simply write, "In God We Trust," what is this? This is slogan. But actually people are becoming godless. In schools, colleges, they are prohibiting, "Don't talk of God." Do they not?
Jayatīrtha: That's a fact.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, with all the constructions, perhaps it's very high.
Prabhupāda: But we are getting money. We have no money, but still we can sit down in such a nice palace. This is practical. So money is not problem. The problem is godlessness. So as soon as there is godlessness, there will be suffering, different types of suffering. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:
- daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī
- mama māyā duratyayā
- mām eva ye prapadyante
- māyām etāṁ taranti te
- (BG 7.14)
Problem, māyā is problem.
Prabhupāda: One or two words, that is enough. Godless civilization. Everything, there is proof, there is father, the supreme father. And still they do not believe in God. He says ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā, "I am the seed-giving father." We have got experience that father gives the seed in the womb of the mother and then the child takes body from the mother and comes out. Everyone knows.
Prabhupāda: That's it. And that is the root cause of all problems, that they are missing the father. He is the maintainer. Godless. Is it possible that the mother gives birth to a child without father? Is there any experience in the history of the world, the mother has given birth to a child without connection with the father? They say, "We have not seen father." That does not mean there is no father. A child may not have seen his father. There are many children, but that does not mean that he has no father. There must be father. And so if there is father, no father, how you know it? Suppose you have not seen. You ask the mother, "Mother, am I born without father?" Mother says, "No, you have got your father." Or she can show, "Here is your father." So you cannot understand the father by your research work. You have to take the knowledge from the mother, authority. There is no other way.
Indian (1): ...high commissioners, for the passport. They're so demoniac, they're not working at all, they're.... (break) ...politics and they sit there. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...is sympathetic with this movement. Everyone wants godlessness. And this movement is preaching about God, so nobody likes us. (break)
Devotee: They've poisoned the lakes so much in Canada now that they've been making an attempt to turn rivers around in northern Ontario to flush the lakes out like a toilet, so they can flush part of the water down to cities like Chicago. (break) (laughter)
Prabhupāda: To save all these botherations. You live here? How long you'll live in Canada?
Devotee: Nine years.
Prabhupāda: No...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply tiresome, that's all. Religion, no God. There are so many religions.
Hari-śauri: Soon as they forget the actual religion then there are so many concoctions.
Prabhupāda: "This is our religion." What is religion? "No God." What is religion? Then, those who are godless, they have got religion. Atheism has got religion. Then why bring this religion? What is the meaning of religion? Just see.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: At our Māyāpura Candrodaya Mandira, though, lakhs of people are coming.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, it is by the common people, ordinary people.
Prabhupāda: Because they are godless, they are uncommon. Educated Bengalis, they are spoiled.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. My feeling was they do not want to stop eating meat.
Prabhupāda: That is the only...
Prabhupāda: God becoming is far away. First of all, make some living entity. But even if you do it, then what is your credit? Why you want to take so much great credit?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's called false prestige.
Prabhupāda: Just see, how nonsense they are, misleading people, making them atheist, Godless. Great dangerous, the so-called scientists.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that mentality has to be changed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So if even two, three, points we can prove that they're all rascals, then they will change. Simply cheating people and take high salary. This is common sense. Suppose in the laboratory you make one living being. So what is credit to them? The living entities are coming, many millions...
Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, in our preaching activities we see that, of course, in Kali-yuga more and more individuals are turning away from Kṛṣṇa, or God, thinking that God is dead, they don't need to do any type of activities for Him. Then how can we explain to these people that they are missing the entire point of life? In other words, they don't even want to hear. They simply don't want to hear anything. God is dead, and they think that they are enjoying, and it's very difficult sometimes to explain to these people that actually they are not enjoying at all.
Prabhupāda: They are mūḍhas, that is already explained. If you cannot convince them, then avoid them. What can be done? Instead of wasting time, you better avoid them. Upekṣā. Useless. Because godless persons means duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ. So it is the duty of the preacher to enlighten them also, to take some risk. But if one is unable to take risk, he may avoid them.
Indian man (4): I just asked why he has preached impersonal form of God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because they were all godless, so he said, "There is no God, but you stop this animal killing." That was his mission. And he said, "There is no God, but whatever I say, you accept." So they agreed. But he is God. That is cheating. Superficially he said there is no God, but he is God. Somehow or other, if people stop animal killing and accept Lord Buddha, then he becomes at least one step forward to God realization. So in a cheating process he made good to others.
Prabhupāda: Rascal, working, it is already being done, so what is your credit? We are working. You may work also, but what is your credit? Suppose if you become successful. What is your credit? It is already being done by the chicken. Why should you take the laureate title, Dr. such-and-such. Give it to the chicken. What they can do? Can they produce a seed of this, just like one seed produce so many things? Bījāhaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. Where is your credit? (break) Mines, as soon as it is national, nobody will take. In 1950, twenty-five years, twenty-six years ago, I was in Madras, Gauḍīya Maṭha, and there is a bus stop in front of the temple. So every bus was making some sound, huuuuuung, but when nothing was properly oiled. Machine is going to hell when it is managed by the government. As soon as there is government management, nobody wants. So long there is proprietorship, the proprietor takes care that "My machine will go bad if I don't take care." But who cares for that? That showing that so much oil purchased, who is going to check it? People have become dishonest. On account of godlessness, everyone is dishonest. He's dishonest to himself even. Doesn't take care of the body properly. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Therefore you cannot expect good qualities of the human society without injecting God consciousness. (break) ...in the mass of people amongst themselves. Do they fight very much amongst themselves?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Not so much. They are not as peaceful as Indians. They are not as pious as Indians.
Devotee: The government encourages this spending of money while the citizens are unhappy and cannot be safe in their own city.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you must have such government. Dasyu-dharyogi (?). They will snatch your money by force. You cannot say anything. That is punishment. Godless civilization, that is punishment, that your own government will snatch, by force, take away your hard labor accumulation, by taxes. That is written in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You cannot fight. You will be harassed in so many ways you will become mad. Ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā yāsyanti giri-kānanam. Hopelessly you will leave hearth and home and go to the forest. This godless civilization will be punished like that. That day is coming like that. Nobody will be peaceful. They will be mad. Just like when a man becomes mad, he commits suicide, he blows off his head. This will be done. There will be no rain—this is one punishment—and scarcity of food and heavy taxation by government. They are all mentioned. What more suffering you want? But still they are advancing, scientists.
Prabhupāda: It will be increasing throughout the whole world. Anāvṛṣṭi.
Hari-śauri: They think it's just happening by chance.
Prabhupāda: Godless civilization, sinful activities. The reaction will increase, no rainfall, scarcity of foodgrains, and government taxes. These are written in Bhāgavata. Anāvṛṣṭi-durbhikṣa... Government will exact tax more.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There was a scientific study done by the CIA in America, this study done by the CIA on world weather conditions. And they concluded that the world weather conditions only get worse and worse. There's going to be drought every three, four years, and so there will not be food production.
Prabhupāda: It is predicted in the Bhāgavata five thousand years ago.
Indian Doctor: Who? Prabhupāda: Anyone. Take Mahatma Gandhi. He was so great student of Bhagavad-gītā. Did he preach kṛṣṇa-bhakti? Bhagavad-gītā minus Kṛṣṇa, this is going on. Yes. Kaṁsa. Kill Kṛṣṇa. This is going on. What is the meaning of Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa? And everyone is preaching like this. Very worse condition of the world. Godlessness, and they'll suffer, there is no doubt. Prakṛti is very strong. You can do whatever you like, but kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya, that will act. You may be very proud of your so-called prestigious position, but the kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya... Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi... (BG 13.22).
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not saying God at all. They're saying God..., we're using God as a front.
Prabhupāda: They may say. But we want to put forward a God's party also. Why not? Everyone is godless party. We must push forward a God's party. What is the wrong there?
Hari-śauri: It's not political.
Prabhupāda: Our whole movement is to educate this atheistic godless civilization to God consciousness. That is our movement. So if we set up a party, In God We Trust, what is the wrong there?
Gargamuni: In the same newspaper they print naked women. So we have God conscious party to stop this.
Prabhupāda: To stop illicit sex.
Gargamuni: Yes.
Prabhupāda: We are trying to elevate the demoralized human society to God consciousness.
Prabhupāda: That's it. So everyone can become a great soul if he accepts the proposal of God. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śara... (BG 18.66). Everything solved. But that he'll not do. Just like your first question was "How to solve these problems?" The problems will be solved as soon as he surrenders to God. But that he'll not do. He is bigger than God. He will make solution by his own plan. This is the difficulty.
Dr. Kneupper: Is that because of the age?
Prabhupāda: No, this is the... Just like anyone who is in the prisonhouse. They are all criminals, but some of them are first-class prisoners, some of them second-class, some of them third-class, but they are prisoner. Similarly, according to different time, people are more or less god..., godless. So this time is more godless. The prisonhouse is filled up with more third-class prisoners.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, suppose you are a well known philosopher. If you say, "There is God," so many people will hear: "Oh, here is a big philosopher." Therefore your studies of philosophy will be perfect when you establish, "Yes, there is God." Otherwise it is useless because you will waste your time and you'll waste... Already they are Godless.
Guest: Or this one mission says, "You worship your is the devatā."
Prabhupāda: Yes, I know these rascals. Therefore the country's position is the Godless India. They lost their culture.
Vāsughoṣa: They had big propaganda that Sai Baba is God also. He was saying in the... These professors challenged him, so he said, "How can an ant try and understand an ocean?" He made that statement, that the Professor at Bangalore University, Vice Chancellor said that, you know, so many... (break)
Prabhupāda: Does that mean we have to accept him? That does not mean we accept. (break) ...one is against this movement because we are presenting Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme.
Jagadīśa: What was that verse, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Tān aham.
Jagadīśa: Tān.
Prabhupāda: For the demons. Demons and godless people must be (indistinct), you cannot make a solution. You cannot surpass the law of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). There is enough water in the ocean, but still you are suffering for scarcity of water. Why? What is the answer?
Jagadīśa: They are answering rains. (?)
Prabhupāda: What their answer, these rascals? Just like in Europe there is scarcity of water, they proposed to import, rascal. But there are so many oceans. So where is the scarcity of water? But why you cannot use it? Unless there is intervention by the nature's law you cannot do it. Therefore you are completely under the laws of nature. Nature will punish you, nature will reward you, according to your acts. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27), ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Calcutta it is thirty-six hours.
Prabhupāda: Another ten hours.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: About thirty-six hours.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Preach as much as possible. By saṅkīrtana, big saṅkīrtana. Big saṅkīrtana is book distribution and small saṅkīrtana is with mṛdaṅga. Big saṅkīrtana is going on all over the world. Small saṅkīrtana locally. Overflood the demons' Godless civilization. Our declaration of war against this Godless civilization.
Girirāja: I met a very, very nice boy yesterday. His father is a life member, but he's studying in Boston at MIT.
Prabhupāda: Oh, technology.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (1): That is why Indians are not joining then. Because they are not joining because of that; they cannot understand what is the reality. Because we try to comment upon the God's actions, "Somebody's poor, somebody's rich, somebody's this."
Prabhupāda: But actually you don't believe in God. That is the disease, godlessness. If we believe in God...
Guest (2): If we fully believe... But there are a large portion of...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. They don't believe in Him. They think that "God is my servant, or order-supplier"—"God, why you have not done this. If you don't do this, I don't want You." This is our position.
Rāmeśvara: Many answers. You have all the answers.
Prabhupāda: No. Therefore I am speaking you how to answer. (long pause) So much land lying vacant. Yajñād bhavanti parjanyaḥ. There is no yajña. Therefore there is no rain. (break) ...and it will increase. Because the people will increase their godlessness, so the rainfall will stop. Now lick up your motorcar. This is going on. Anavṛṣṭya durbhikṣa dāra-pīḍitaḥ. One side, anavṛṣṭi, there is no food grain, and government taxation. People will be so harassed, they will leave their hearth and home and go to the forest. Cannot manage. (break) ...God awakening your country to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Someway or other, there is agitation. This agitation must go on and then turn it towards favorable time. Agitation is there. That is good.
Prabhupāda: So let us... (car door opens—break) The people are becoming godless. How much degradation. Lord Rāmacandra appeared, Lord Kṛṣṇa appeared, Lord Buddha, Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared and many others, and the people of India, they are becoming godless. Why? Do you follow what I say? Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham (BG 4.7). And He does it in India within this universe. And they are become now... This is Kali-yuga. Other countries, they may, but India, so fortunate birth... Bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya janma. They are becoming degraded so much so that they are doubting, asking questions.
Prabhupāda: That is another laziness. For good cause one should.
Rāmeśvara: They are thinking, "What if the people want to be Communist? Why should we interfere?"
Prabhupāda: That means cowardice. They have no conviction that Communism is dangerous, godlessness.
Rāmeśvara: They are forgetting how dangerous it is.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: So they take us like that too, another religious explanation.
Prabhupāda: No. Our religion is not faith. It is science. That is the fault. Fanaticism of Christianism, Muhammadanism, has created this godlessness. But Vedic knowledge is not that. It is really knowledge.
Prabhupāda: ...obedient to God—that means offer sacrifices—then there will be regular rain. And if there is regular rain, any damn land is good for any purpose. Land has been made bad because there is no regular rain. They... Why the desert is? If there is regular rain, the desert will be also fertile. So it is gradually becoming desert. The whole world will be desert. No production. Suffer. Make your scientific research, godless. All rascals, full of rascals... (horn beeping—break) There is a proposal. You know that? Just see how great rascals they are. They'll import water.
Prabhupāda: That is also another foolishness. How much water he'll carry by pipe? (aside:) Where is pole. Take water from God. That is sufficient. Navadit tarims ca.(?) When there is water supplied by God, where there is no need of water there will be water. Just like on the hills, on the mountains, there is no need of water. In the ocean there is no need of water. But the God... "All right, take water here also." That is God's gift. You rascal, how much water you have got that you transport by pipe and this and that...? All rascals. Mūḍha. They can simply address as rascals. That's all. They can simply address as rascals. That's all. That is my language, always these are all rascals. Godless means mūḍha, rascal, duṣkṛtina. They will attempt so many things, simply waste their time and energy. Duṣkṛtina. Because they are rascals. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). And a human being should have intelligence, but they are lower, lowest status of the human being. Mūḍha, duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ. "No, the university education..." Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. Everything is analytically spoken. Why all these things? Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. Because godless, no intelligence. Anyone who is godless, he has no intelligence. This is the conclusion.
Prabhupāda: They are not human being. If some man praises them that "You are so big. You are so big leader," he's also amongst this group. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ. This is grave thing. Let understand it, that anyone who is godless, who has no idea what is God, he is a rascal. Immediately take him that he's a rascal. He may be prime minister, he may be president, he may be scientist, but we shall take him as rascal number one. This is our first understanding. Bokā. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, bokā. So at that time I was thinking, "Everyone is bokā?" (laughing) Guru Mahārāja says, "Everyone..." "Even Rabindranath Tagore, he is also bokā?" Later on I could under..., "Yes. Everyone is bokā."
Prabhupāda: Everywhere, all over the world. It will be a revolution from godlessness to understanding of God. That is wanted. Otherwise the whole human society is suffering. Harāv abhaktasya kuto. This advancement of so-called education has no value. It is very risky. They do not know how the nature's law is working. Rascals. They are taking this short duration of life, māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43), making big, big plans, forgetting they're completely under the control of nature. A very risky civilization. A living being gets the opportunity to understand all the secrets of nature's path, but he's denied the opportunity. Very dangerous He's thinking like animal. Eating, sleeping, that's all. And big, big educationist and in... Like Professor Kotofsky, he said, "Swamijī, after this body is finished, everything (is finished.)" Just see.
Prabhupāda: I do not say that we are very good brain. We are servant of God. We have nothing to show, any brain. Our brain will be shown by our master. Our position is God. So we are not very much anxious to show our... But you are godless rascals. You want to show your brain. Show me machine. We have all accepted that supreme brain is Kṛṣṇa and we are servant. That is our position. We don't say that "Independent. There is no God." We don't. You say that. We are working under superior brain. So the case has to be proved by you, not by us. What is called, onus? What is that, onus?
Brahmānanda: Burden of proof.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is your duty, not us. You have to prove it. (break) And now don't go to the court with any other dress. Preach like this. Preach there with this dress. Have they any objection with this dress?
Hari-śauri: In this dress.
Ādi-keśava: I agree. I think it is very good that they see us dressed like this in court.
Prabhupāda: That means the rascals, they do not see it, that godlessness, godless education will be like that. The teachers who are suggesting, they are themselves blind, and they are leading. They do not know what is the defect. You can write to them, that "You are leaders, you do not know what is the cause. This is the cause. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). Without God consciousness, there cannot be any education. There cannot be any good qualities. You do not know this. Simply you are crying in the wilderness. You yourself do not know. All the education, its propaganda is how to make the world godless, although the most scientific knowledge of God is there in the Bhagavad-gītā." Write him. Give him a slap, that "You do not know." Introduce our Kṛṣṇa consciousness books in the educational department. "Yato mata tato patha. Transcendental meditation. God has given you senses. Why you should not enjoy?"
Prabhupāda: Whatever name you can give, it is not civilization. That we have to... Not that "How they are cheating." But it is not human civilization; it is animal. Just as animals cheat naturally. Animal fight. So we have to prove this is animal civilization. (Bengali or Hindi) This is not human civilization. Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness it is not human civilization. That we have to prove. How it is not? You have to prove that "This is animal civili... This is not human civili..." Real human business is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's para-upakāra. In ignorance they are doing all nonsense. Stop them. Give them knowledge. This Kṛṣṇa conscious movement is real civilization. That we have to prove. It is clearly stated in... Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious-duṣkṛtina, simply cheating. And therefore narādhama, lowest of the mankind. And human life he's spoiling by cheating like animal. Who cheats? The man who doesn't care for the authority. He cheats. And if a man is afraid of law and government, he does not cheat. So godless person means cheater.
Prabhupāda: So good milk, you give little, not at a time much. Half a cup. So I said these political rascals... Just see. Trouble. They don't want democracy. "And we'll by force remain." Where is the democracy? Indira Gandhi was to give like that. Where is democracy? Vote rejected him that his (her) election was invalid. Still, he (she) would call, "Emergency." People of Kali-yuga, unfortunate, they are controlled by these fourth-class, tenth-class men. All unhappy. Nobody is in peace. That is also punishment because they are godless. Nobody will come to hear us, follow us, and they'll be punished by these politicians. They'll corrupt.
Prabhupāda: This is like that. So you have to, as far as possible... If you can you have to demonstrate, "This is planetary system." So at least we shall show what is going on within this universe. And above... And each universe is covered with seven material elements. Each covering is ten times more than the other covering, earth, water, air, fire. A wonderful creation. And how it will be shown? So I have decided, therefore, that let us show something about this planetary, er, this universe. And others, we give idea. How it will be done, you think over as far as possible. (laughs) It is not these rascals' calculation, that every planet is rock and sand, and God had no business to create so many planets of rocks and sands to be discovered scientifically by these rascals' attaining them. Just see the fun, how far the godless men can dare to speak and think. How great rascals they are! Simply to deny the existence of God, that's all. That is their business. And the creation has no brain, asatyam. Anīśvaram: "There is no God. It is all false." Jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8).
Prabhupāda: Simply nonsense. So what is remedy? Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). All over the world... Of course, we do not want to criticize, but according to śāstra, people will suffer more and more. And they must suffer. Because they are becoming godless, they must suffer. That is nature's punishment.
- daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī
- mama māyā duratyayā
- mām eva ye prapadyante
- māyām etāṁ taranti te
- (BG 7.14)
They won't take the real culture given by God Himself, Kṛṣṇa, "Do like this." Therefore they are godless. They must suffer. Now the suffering is awaiting to the general mass of people. Durbhikṣa... Anāvṛṣṭi-durbhikṣa-kara-pīḍitāḥ (SB 12.2.9). There will be no rain from the sky, and therefore there will be no sufficient grains. Anāvṛṣṭi-durbhikṣa. And in the name of improving the situation, government will tax. Kara-pīḍitāḥ. In this way, so the people in general, they'll be so much harassed that, without being able to manage things... Ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā gacchanti giri-kānanam. "Let whatever I may have to the family eating. Let me go." This is the position.
Prabhupāda: They are practically seeing that we are going village to village and people are receiving us. So if these Americans push on the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, naturally people will take it. And that was my idea from the beginning, that if the Americans become Vaiṣṇavas, then others will be. It is four?
Upendra: Three. (break)
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa men. They want Bengal completely godless.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that "Man alone has progressed..."
Prabhupāda: He can be allowed to do so because he is not civilized. But you are civilized, and you are committing great sinful activities by maintaining slaughterhouse. You are such a rascal. And because you are godless, you do not know that you will suffer for these sinful activities. That is the proof of existence of soul.
| Page Title: | Godless (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur, Serene |
| Created: | 26 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=120, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 120 |