Prabhupāda: Caṇākya Paṇḍita is giving too much stress on mother and wife in family life. So he says if one's mother is dead and if his wife is not very..., apriya-vādinī, and does not behave very well, ill-behaving, so Caṇākya Paṇḍita advises him that aranyaṁ tena gantavyam: such person should immediately go to the forest. Because in the Vedic understanding there is no divorce. If the wife is not very pleasing, there is no question of divorcing. Caṇākya Paṇḍita does not advise it, the advise that he should divorce such wife, but he says, aranyaṁ tena gantavyam: he should give up family life and go to the forest. Divorce was completely unknown, even up to, say, five years ago. Now this Nehru government has enacted Divorce Act in Hindu law, but actually, Hindu law-maker, they have no such thing as divorce.
Go to the forest (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"go away to the forest"
|"go into the forest"
|"go out into the forest"
|"go out to the forest"
|"go to the Vandavana forest"
|"go to the forest"
|"goes from forest to forest"
|"goes into the forest"
|"goes to a forest"
|"goes to the forest"
|"going away to the forest"
|"going to the forest"
|"gone into the forest"
|"gone to the forest"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: He does not... He does not know what is meaning of God. He thinks that God is something plaything. Therefore he claimed that "I am God." He does not know what is God. Therefore God personally showing—He's coming, Kṛṣṇa: "What is God, see." God is from very beginning God. Kṛṣṇa, from the birth He is God. He hasn't got to meditate. He hasn't got to go to the forest and..., to become God. He is God.
Guest (5): God is made for, sir.
Prabhupāda: Not "God is made." God is never made. God is God.
Guest (5): But, sir, G means (Hindi?)
Prabhupāda: That is your speculation. G means this, O means this, this means this. That you can interpret in so many ways but God is God. God is great. Brahman. Brahman means great, Para-brahman, the greatest. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). That is Kṛṣṇa. Is it not stated in the Bhagavad-gītā?
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Devotee (5): They should do as much japa as possible.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They should have no scope, simply chant and dance, daily engagement, and (indistinct) says that they should play Kṛṣṇa play-cowherds boy going to the forest, someone, someone has become cow, like that. If they have got good engagement, and sometimes they fight, after all, they're coming from fighting father and mother. So you have to change them.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes (laughter)
Prabhupāda: The father and mother, they're also fighting (laughter)
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So what is their fault?
Prabhupāda: No, it is not possible. Kṛṣṇa accepted Himself a guru. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted a guru. They are God Himself. So how you can accept: "I can approach Kṛṣṇa without guru"? Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpā. Kṛṣṇa... When actually you want Kṛṣṇa seriously—you do not know who is guru—then Kṛṣṇa will give you a guru. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. He was advised by his mother that "If you go to the forest you can see God." So he went there. But when he was very serious, then Kṛṣṇa sent him Nārada Muni. So if you are actually serious about Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will send you some of His representative and he will take charge of you. That is the process. If you do not find a guru, that means Kṛṣṇa is not yet pleased, either you are not serious. Just like when you become serious of studying any subject matter, you find out some college, some institution. You cannot purchase the books and read at home and become expert engineer, expert, no. That is not the process.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: He has written a big philosophy on sex life. Does it require any education? Anyone knows how to use sex life. And he has written big book. Similarly, defense also: they are making big, big arrangements, atomic bomb. I am making atomic bomb, you are making... Similarly, sleeping: big, big skyscraper building; eating: start thousands of slaughterhouse. Formerly also there were meat-eaters. But did they maintain slaughterhouse? "All right, I want to eat meat. Just go in the forest. Kill one animal. That's all. Pick it up." So this advancement of civilization means advancement of slaughterhouse, advancement of skyscraper building, advancement of atom bomb, advancement of Freud philosophy. This is advancement. The subject matter is the same, which does not require any education. Nobody requires education on this subject matter. Even the birds and beasts, they know what is their eatable.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that is there, described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The, the governmental power will go to the rascals and thieves, rogues. And their only business will be how to exploit the people. So one side, by not sufficient rain, there will be scarcity of foodstuff, and one side, the government will tax like anything. In this way, people will be so much harassed that they will give up their hearth and home and go to the forest.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This will be done in Kali-yuga. And gradually, there will be no supply of grains. Especially rice, wheat, sugar, milk, these things will be finished. So people will be obliged to take flesh. These are all stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Improve... Major portion is stated like that. But there is always light and darkness. Always. So the light party will be also there. This is the only, that take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ. In the Kali-yuga, it is an ocean of faults. Doṣa-nidhi. Nidhi means ocean, and doṣa means faults. But there is one opportunity. Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ. Very great profit. What is that? Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya. Simply by chanting Kṛṣṇa's name and becoming Kṛṣṇa con..., one shall be freed from all these calamities and he'll go back to home, back to Godhead. Simply by this. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya. This very word is used. Mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet. So this is the only shelter. If people take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they'll be saved from all the calamities of this age. Otherwise, there is no other... Now they are going to the forest, the hippies. Eh? Ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā gacchanti giri-kānanam. Giri-kānanam means to the forests, to the hills. They'll go. Ācchinna-dāra-draviṇām. Dāra means wife, and draviṇā means money. So they'll be separated from wife and money, and they'll go to the forest and hills, being disappointed. This is happening already. Ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā gacchanti giri-kānanam.
Prabhupāda: So if one is engaged in the prime business of life, Brahman understanding, athāto brahma jijñāsā, for him these bodily pains and pleasure becomes minor things. Therefore, we see such examples, that one saintly person is living in the Himalayan mountain. There is snowfall, there is no proper place, still they live. Still, there are many. But nowadays it is not possible. Voluntarily, they used to go to the forest, to the Himalaya, just to tolerate these pains and pleasure of the body equally and engage in their own business of spiritual understanding. That is human civilization. Human civilization, that is described, tapo divyam. For the supreme spiritual realization one should undergo tapasya. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). It is the instruction of Rṣabhadeva that this body... Everyone has got body, cats and dogs and hogs, they have got body. We have also body. The kings and demigods, they have got body. Everyone has got body. But especially the body of... Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. In the human society. This body is not meant for kaṣṭān kāmān, to satisfy sense gratification with very, very hard labor like the hogs and dogs.
Prabhupāda: And that is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: anāvṛṣṭi, durbhikṣa and kara-pīḍita. One side, there will be no rain, and there will be scarcity of food grain, and government will tax heavily. In this way, people will become mad and they will give up their hearth and home and go to the forest. This is the foretelling also. This is going to happen. Actually, people are being perplexed in that way. There is scarcity of food, and there is scarcity of rain, and government tax is increasing every year. Read that.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: ...it will be constituted, that. Their business will be to exploit the poor citizens. And they will be embarrassed and harassed so much: by one side, no sufficient rain, and therefore scarcity of food, and the other side, taxation by the government. In this way, the people will be so much harassed that they'll give up their home and go to the forest. Very piti... Unless they take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they'll not be saved. The varṇāśrama college has to be established immediately. Everywhere, wherever we have got our center, a varṇāśrama college should be established to train four divisions: one class, brāhmaṇa; one class, kṣatriya; one class, vaiśya; and one class, śūdra. But everyone will be elevated to the spiritual platform by the spiritual activities which we have prescribed. There is no inconvenience, even for the śūdras.
Prabhupāda: Four principles essential. Essential. But only the śūdras or the kṣatriyas... Just like kṣatriyas, they have to learn how to kill. So practically, they should go to the forest and kill some animal. And if he likes, he can eat also. If he likes, he can eat also.
Hṛdayānanda: What he kills.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But not from the slaughterhouse. Those who are kṣatriyas, they can, they're allowed sometimes to eat meat. It is understood Bhīma, Bhīma also eating sometimes meat. Bhīma. Amongst the Pāṇḍavas, only Bhīma. Not others. So if the kṣatriyas, they want to eat meat, they can be allowed on particular occasions. But they must go to the forest and kill the animal. Not that for meat-eating regular slaughterhouses should be maintained. This is all nonsense, degradation. If you want to eat meat, you go to the forest. And the śūdras, they also sometimes eat meat. Or the caṇḍālas.
Prabhupāda: But if some of the kṣatriya or the śūdras, they want, so that is our prescription: "Go to the forest and kill some animal and eat that." That's all. You can kill one boar. Some disturbing elements, you can kill. You can kill some tiger. Like that. Learn to kill. No nonviolence. Learn to kill. Here also, as soon as you'll find, the kṣatriya, a thief, a rogue, unwanted element in the society, kill him. That's all. Finish. Kill him. Bās. Finished. So other will see, "Oh, the ruler is very strong." And others will... One killing will be lesson for many hundreds and thousands. No mercy. "Kill him." That's all. That was the system. In Kashmir about hundred years ago. If somebody has stolen, cut his hand. Bās. He cannot steal any more. So one cutting hand means finish. In that part of the world, no more stealing.
Prabhupāda: They, because today's Rāma Naumi, they're taking bath?
Dr. Patel: Yes, they are taking bath. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...says that "Why don't you go to the forest?"
Dr. Patel: But that somebody must have told you.
Prabhupāda: No, no. One of the important men. What is the name of that...?
Girirāja: Yogendrabhai.
Prabhupāda: Yogendra. Yes. He's Yogendra. Yogi.
Dr. Patel: Yogendra Patel.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Here is the sample of yogi. Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). And a yogi says that "Go to the forest." Eh? The rājarṣis are in the forest?
Dr. Patel: This is a mūḍha. (break)
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...garland, this girl. Garland just like beads.
Satsvarūpa: Make a garland out of stone?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not stone.
Satsvarūpa: Shells.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I say that we devotees, we are not afraid even of demons. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Asad-grahāt. Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5). He asked the son, "What you have learned, the best thing, in school?" He said, "My dear asura-varya," not father, "My dear best of the demons, I think this is the best thing." "What is that?" "Now, these people," sadā samudvigna-dhiyām, "always anxious, full of anxiety..." Why? Asad-grahāt: "Because they accepted this material world as all in all." Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt: "On account of their accepting this material world as everything, therefore they are full of anxiety. Now, to get out of this anxiety, so-hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam-ātma-pātaṁ, suicidal place, gṛha, household life, they should give up." Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam. "And then what you will do?" "Oh." vanaṁ gato: "He should give up and go to the forest." "And then?" Vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta: (SB 7.5.5) "And take shelter of the lotus feet of Hari. I understand this is the best thing." And his father become more angry.
Prabhupāda: ...observing Śiva-rātri, Nanda Mahārāja and all the cowherds men, they increased their attachment for Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted.
Pancadravida: "After this incident, on a very pleasant night both Kṛṣṇa and His elder brother Balarāma, who are inconceivably powerful, went into the forest of Vṛndāvana." (break)
Prabhupāda: "Dressing is artificial. It is not required. Yes. This naked body is very nice." (break) No, you don't... You cannot be naga-bābā. That is not good. (break) If one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, all these rascaldom becomes charming. When one is Kṛṣṇa conscious these things does not appeal.
Pancadravida: "Kṛṣṇa's transcendental form, quali..." (break)
Prabhupāda: But first of all you take your Bible. You are ordered not to kill. Why you are killing? Then go to Bhagavad-gītā. When there is aggression you have the right to kill but not unnecessarily you can kill. Suppose a tiger attacks you; you can kill. But you cannot go in the forest and kill the tiger. That is sinful.
Young Swiss Man (3): Why does the distinction stop with animals and not with plants?
Yogeśvara: Why do we make the distinction between not killing animals and plants? Why do we kill plants?
Prabhupāda: We do not kill plants also. We take... Of course, by nature's way some living entity is the food for another living entity. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. That is the nature's way. But if you give that argument, then I can say, "Why you are killing cows? Why don't you kill your own children?" If that is the way, that "Because I have to eat some animal," so why go outside? Just inside the family there are so many animals. You can kill them and eat. there must be discretion. Apart from this point of view, we Kṛṣṇa conscious people, we do not kill even a plant because, Kṛṣṇa says-find out this-patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26).
Prabhupāda: Responsibility is that you have got this human form of life, realize God, this is wanted. Otherwise you are finished. Three words. You have got this human form of life, your only responsibility is to understand God. This is your responsibility. That is Vedic culture. For understanding God, many, many kings, many, many saints, they left everything and went to the forest to realize God. That is Vedic culture. Bharata Mahārāja, under whose name India is called Bhāratavarṣa, he was the emperor of this planet, and at the age of twenty-four years he left everything to realize God. This is Vedic culture. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, His position was very, very nice as a gṛhastha. A nice beautiful wife, affectionate mother, good influence, brāhmaṇa family, learned scholar—everything first class. He left everything, just to show us. He was God Himself, but to set the example, tyaktvā su-dustyaja-surepsita-rājya-lakṣmīm (SB 11.5.34), He gave up a kingdom, a fortune, which is aspired by the demigods.
Prabhupāda: Therefore those who do not take risk, they do not remain within this material world. They go to the Himalaya, go to the forest. They are afraid of being contaminated. But more liberal devotees, they take the risk and "Never mind, I shall go to hell. Let me do something for Kṛṣṇa. Let others may understand something of Kṛṣṇa." That is their, mean magnanimity, taking the risk of going to hell, still, giving the information, "Just try to understand Kṛṣṇa." So such persons are exalted. Because they are taking their own risk to serve Kṛṣṇa. That at least one man may understand Kṛṣṇa. And others, they are flying, flying away, fleeing away, "No, no. We are not going to take risk."
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa says that there's no one more dear to Me than...
Prabhupāda: We shall go straight or right?
Haṁsadūta: Right. (break) He has taken safety place, and from safety place he is killing other poor animals. That is not shooting. The kṣatriyas, they will shoot tiger face to face. Previously Jaipur Mahārāja, he used to go to the forest, and so he would simply fight with the tiger with a sword.
Haṁsadūta: That doesn't happen anymore today.
Prabhupāda: See the tiger has got its nails and teeth and jaw. So there was no firearm. He will challenge the tiger with a..., and he will take a sword and kill him. And then the tiger would be brought in procession, giving all honor, military honor.
Haṁsadūta: To the tiger.
Prabhupāda: Duty has to be done despite all inconveniences. That is very important thing. The example is given that one has to take bathing early in the morning, but because it is cold, one cannot avoid it. He must bathe. This morning we had some meeting... (break) ...a little boy, but he was a great devotee, and father was a great atheist. So he was surprised that his son became so great devotee. After all, as a father he asked him, "My dear boy, what nice thing you have learned by your education?" He said, "My dear father, the best thing I have learned, that people are always full of anxiety on account of accepting material..." (break) ...exactly the same thing as you were... So one thing is that formerly it was the practice to go to the forest, go to the Himalaya, but in this age this is not possible. Therefore we have to take shelter of the Lord wherever we are, and that is Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Sometimes... Means this is false thing. It appears as a big city. Similarly, this is also. This material world is like that. It is a false cloud only, but we have taken it as fact. Just see, it appears just like big New York City. If you go to the forest, you will find some illusion, that just after that tree there is a big house. Have you experienced that?
Devotee (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is called Gandharvapur. So if anyone wants to enter that big city, then what is his position?
Devotee (2): Illusion.
Prabhupāda: The same thing: the conditioned soul enters the big city of material world, and he struggles. (pause)
Prabhupāda: That means in need. So that is the question, that you may be in need of food, I may be in need of some woman, he may be in need of some money... In this way everyone is needy. Therefore ultimately one should search after God, when every need will be fulfilled. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja, he went... He was in need of an empire like his father. For that reason he went to the forest and performed all kinds of austerities, and when he saw God he said, svāmin kṛthārto 'smi varaṁ na yāce: "I have no more need. Everything is fulfilled. I don't want anything." He... God said, "Now whatever benediction you want, you take from Me." He said, "No, I don't want anything. Now everything is fulfilled." So that is the real need. The child is crying, and he is not stopping crying. So many others coming. But as soon as his mother comes, he will stop. He understands immediately, "Now I have got the thing, my mother." So the real need is Kṛṣṇa. That is missing. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. All these Western students, they were in need. Now they have got Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. (pause) Life will be more more dangerous in this Kali-yuga. People will starve. And they... It is already began. The hippies are going to the forest. This will be the whole world situation. Everything will be chaotic.
Amogha: But if they actually go to the forest, then that will be one step.
Prabhupāda: No, it is disappointment. It is simply disappoint... That is not solution. But people will do that. When the one is mad he doesn't know what to do—"Let me go to the forest." Achinna dāra-draviṇaṁ gacchanti giri-kānanam, it is said. Giri means mountain, and kānanam means forest. Giving up their hearth and home... They are already giving up the home, wife, children, and going away. Everybody doing that.
Paramahaṁsa: Actually, in so many cases the hippies, they went to the forest, and because there was no standard of spiritual life there, they became discouraged also. They ran into the same problems in the forest that they had in the cities.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: So therefore many of these communities that they started back in, about ten years ago, 1960's, they have all folded up because there was nothing to hold them together.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no engagement. Therefore we are proposing that eat nicely, live nicely, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is the engagement. But they have no such engagement. How they will live? Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Every living entity wants some pleasure, but this pleasure is finished. Therefore athāto brahma jijñāsā. Now they seek... Let them seek out pleasure from Brahmān. So that they do not know. Now the situation is then no monies. Then they will tax. Those who are living, they will be disturbed by taxation. They have no other means. Kara-piditaḥ. Kara means tax, and pidita means disturbed. They will be like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, these boys they are coming from your Christian group, Jewish group, but they are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. One priest in Boston, he issued one pamphlet that "These boys are our boys, and before this movement, they didn't care to come to the church. And now they are mad after God. How is it? The same boys." So indirectly he accepted this process as easier to understand God. And actually it is easier. What do they do? They don't go to the forest, or meditate, or make any very austere, what is called, penances. They simply chant in the morning and dance in ecstasy and then eat sumptuously. That's all. And now they have given up everything. Now, you bribe them, "You eat meat." They will never eat. They will not drink tea even. The method is... The American government they spent lots of money for stopping this addiction to drugs. And these boys, as soon as they come to me, they give up. Ask them what money I have bribed them. You can ask how they have left it.
Prabhupāda: Heroism. Therefore the kṣatriyas are allowed to hunt in the forest to become hero because he has to fight. Just like in medical laboratory they first of all dissect some poor animal before touching human being. Therefore kṣatriyas are allowed to hunt to become hero. Facing the tiger, "Come on." And still, say, about twenty-five years ago, there was a native prince in Jaipur. Every year he would go to the forest and face the tiger, without any weapon. So that is required.
Guest 2: That is good?
Prabhupāda: That is required. Those who are politicians, those who are going to be president, they must be like that.
Guest 2: In our society that wouldn't be thought good.
Prabhupāda: No, your society whatever you may be, this is the idea.
Prabhupāda: "The mūḍhā, these rascal, they do not know mām, Me, Kṛṣṇa," param avyayam, "inexhaustible pleasure." Kṛṣṇa is the reservoir of all pleasure. In the Vṛndāvana there is sporting. There is association with young girls, father, mother. Everything is exactly like this. And in any circumstance they are happy. It is not that in Vṛndāvana Kṛṣṇa is a sannyāsī. He cannot see the face of woman. It is not like that. (chuckles) But because it is spiritual, it is all-attractive. There are also the trees, animals, the river, the fruits, the flowers, the father, the mother, the beloved girls, beloved boys, sporting among the cowherd boys, going to the forest, the cows and calves, everything. So that attraction is required. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they are thinking, "Again attraction like this? So make it zero, no attraction. Become zero." So their philosophy is zero philosophy. That is also no information of the spiritual world, Buddha philosophy and Māyāvāda philosophy, śūnyavādī, nirviśeṣa, without varieties or zero. Without varieties means zero. So two philosophers. But therefore they invent: "Anything is all right."
Prabhupāda: Then He explained, "This sacrifice is not for eating. It is giving a new life. To test the Vedic mantra." That is discussed in Caitanya-caritāmṛta. That is a different case. For meat-eating a cow should not be killed. This is not very good civilization. If you are..., you must eat meat, then you can kill other animals. They, those who are the kṣatriyas, they were sometimes going to the forest, killing the deer. They are allowed. Because they have to learn how to kill. So by killing animals, they used to practice. Just like doctors, medical practitioners, they first of all ply their knife on the dead body and find out where are the nerves, where are the..., not a living man. When they are fully practiced, then they are allowed to practice surgical operation. Similarly, kṣatriyas are meant for sometimes killing. Just like Arjuna, he's a kṣatriya. So Kṛṣṇa is criticizing him that "You are a kṣatriya. You have learned how to kill, and now you are hesitating? What is the nonsense?" So kṣatriyas are taught. So they have to rule over.
Prabhupāda: Even Kuntī, such intelligent woman, such educated and..., she also kept herself under her sons, the Pāṇḍavas. The Pāṇḍavas lost the game. They were banished, but Kuntī was not banished. But she said, "Then how shall I...? I must go with my sons." Sītā, wife of Lord Rāmacandra. So Rāmacandra was ordered by His father, "My dear son, You have to go forest for fourteen years." Sītā was not ordered. But she voluntarily followed. "Where shall I go? You are my husband. You are going to the forest? I shall go to the forest." This is Vedic civilization. And because she went with her husband, the Rāma-Rāvaṇa fight was there. Pathe nari-vivarjitaḥ. It is said that "When you go to a, foreign country, you don't take woman with you." Pathe nari-vivarjitaḥ. But she said that "Where shall I remain for fourteen years? I must go with You." So Rāmacandra had to agree. And on account of taking this wife along with Him, there was so much trouble. And the husband is so responsible that... Lord Rāmacandra, He is God. He could create thousands and millions of Sītās, but not for one Sītā He killed the whole family.
Prabhupāda: A man who hasn't affectionate mother at home, neither very good wife, so he should immediately give up that home and go to the forest because for him it is as good, either you remain in forest or in home." (chuckles) How intelligent.
- māṭā yasya gṛhe nāsti
- bhāryā cāpriya-vādinī
- aranyaṁ tena gantavyaṁ
- yathāranyaṁ tathā gṛham
(break) ...formerly at least one expected love from mother. That is also being finished. This is the advancement of civilization. Even mother is also not reliable, what to speak of others. A small child sleeps very sound on the lap of the mother because it thinks, "Now I am safe." And the mother is killing child. This is the advancement of civilization. (break) ...has been many cases, a polluted woman has killed his child on account of paramour. In India there have been many cases, killed a grown up child. In recently one of our Godbrother's wife. You know that?
Prabhupāda: And Europe, the most aristocratic person means he is keeping so many horses and so many dogs. That is aristocracy. They will ride on the horse, and taking their dogs, they will go to the forest and kill some innocent birds. That is their heroic activities. We went to see one palace in France.
Satsvarūpa: Yes, I remember. In the hall they had all pictures of those activities.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: Killing birds and fox.
Prabhupāda: That is aristocracy. (break) ...cannon, there was fight? Or this man is very famous hero? There was statue of Napoleon also in Paris. And they identify Napoleon and France, the same. But France is there; there is no Napoleon. (laughter) Napoleon finished, Hitler finished, Gandhi finished. (break)
Prabhupāda: But still... Therefore I say. Still, she remained dependent on their son. That is is my proposition. Just like the sons, they lost the game and they were to be banished. Kuntī was not banished. So when the sons went to forest, Kuntī also followed because she thought that "I am widow. I am dependent on my sons. So wherever my sons will remain, I shall remain." She was not... She did not lose the game; neither she was ordered to go to the forest. Similarly, Sītā, Sītā, wife of Lord Rāmacandra. Lord Rāmacandra was requested by His father to go to the forest, not Sītā. Sītā was also a king's daughter. So she could go to her father that "My husband is going to the forest. Let me go to my father's house." She did not go. She preferred that "I shall go with my husband." So when husband said that "You are not banished. You stay at home," she said, "No. I am dependent on You. Wherever You shall go, I must go." This is Vedic culture.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) This is all physiological. And we have seen, studied, that any big man of the world, behind that big man is either a strong mother or a strong wife. That is the general statistics. And Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says, mātā yasya gṛhe nāsti bharyā cāpriya-vādinī. If there is no mother at home and the wife is not very suitable, does not speak very nicely with husband, disrespectful, then he is recommended to leave home and go to the forest. Araṇyam tena gantavyaṁ yathāraṇyam tathā gṛham. Such person should immediately leave home and live in the forest because for him the forest and home is the same. Mātā yasya gṛhe nāsti bharyā cāpriya-vādinī. So women should be trained up to be very faithful and chaste. Then the life will be very happy. That is the only education for woman. And man should be educated how to become first-class man, a brāhmaṇa. Then the whole atmosphere will be very happy.
Prabhupāda: No. Because we are conquering to... We are trying to avoid death. Then it is... Everything is cured. Cancer, cancer's father, grandfather, everything is cured. So we are trying for that. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that "If you simply understand Me..." Janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Simply if you understand what is Kṛṣṇa, why He comes, what is the purpose, then you become conqueror over death. That is our philosophy. Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa. That is our progress, how much we have understood Kṛṣṇa. And when one understands fully Kṛṣṇa-fully it is not possible; at least partially—he is conquering over death. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). That is real human life, how to conquer over death. Aihiṣṭhaṁ yat tat punar-janma-jāyāya. All the great sages and big, big kings, they left everything, went to the forest for austerity, penance. Why? To conquer over death. That is the mission. That... Everyone can do that, human life. And that is plainly explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, "Simply try to understand Me and you conquer over death." Simple thing.
Rādhā-vallabha: (break) ...scientist named Fox who has. They have conjectured that these original very complex nucleic acids have created life. So he has taken these acids in a big test tube...
Prabhupāda: I say (?) "Fox, go to the forest. (laughter) And cry there." Yes, we treat them as foxes and jackals, that's all, not even human beings. Why they waste time in this way and people are enamored by them? That is... Just like you were talking about space meeting. What they have gained out of it? And people are enamored to talk about them, write in the newspaper or make a subject matter. And then all of a sudden death comes, "Get out," finished. You see? How foolish they are. So, Hayagrīva prabhu, how you are feeling?
Prabhupāda: Where there is Kṛṣṇa and His devotee, all opulences, all power, all strength, everything is there. Yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇo yatra dhanur-dharaḥ pārthaḥ. Wherever there is Arjuna... Just like Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa were on the chariot. Whole battlefield became victorious on behalf of Arjuna. That is wanted. A devotee must be there, and Kṛṣṇa must be there. Then all opulences will come. That is the secret. Why a devotee shall go to the forest for meditating or acquiring some mystic powers? He doesn't require anything. If he keeps Kṛṣṇa always with him, then everything will... Yes. Is there any purport?
Satsvarūpa: Yes. "Purport. The Bhagavad-gītā began with an inquiry by Dhṛtarāṣṭra." (break)
Guest: Could you speak to us on giving thanks to the Lord?
Satsvarūpa: Could you speak about giving thanks to the Lord.
Prabhupāda: Yes, face to face. Yes. Where there is tiger, a kṣatriya, would meet him with a sword. That's all. "Come on. You attack and be killed." Even twenty years before, the king of Jaipur, every year he should go in the forest and kill one tiger personally. And the dead tiger will be brought in procession. He'd be given... Just like a prince or king dies—his body is taken in procession-tiger would be brought that way. Both of them, kṣatriyas... So the tiger should be given the honor of a prince. (break) ...means enemy is going out of fear of life and showing his backside, then he will not be killed. (break) ...into Canada?
Brahmānanda: No, that's Detroit.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that is Detroit.
Prabhupāda: Responsibility is that you have got this human form of life. Realize God. This is your responsibility. Otherwise you are finished. Three words: "You have got this human form of life. Your only responsibility is to understand God. This is your responsibility." That is Vedic culture. For understanding God, many, many kings, many, many saints, they left everything and went to the forest to realize God. That is Vedic culture. Bhārata Mahārāja, under whose name India is called Bhāratavarṣa, he was the emperor of this planet, and at the age of twenty-four years he left everything to realize God. This is Vedic culture. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, His position was very, very nice, as a gṛhastha—a nice beautiful wife, affectionate mother, good influence, brāhmaṇa family, learned scholar, everything first class. He left everything just to show us. He was God Himself, but to set the example, tyaktvā sudustyaja-surepsita-rajya-lakṣmīm (SB 11.5.34).
Prabhupāda: Very, very black. Āchinna-dāra-draviṇ gacchanti giri-kānanam. People, general people, will be so much disgusted that they will be obliged to give up family and home and go to the forest, being disappointed: "Now I cannot manage. Let me go away."
Harikeśa: That's predestined.
Prabhupāda: Yes, predestined.
Harikeśa: But that can all change in a minute.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that can be changed only by... Therefore we are... "Go giri-kānanam, but take shelter of Kṛṣṇa." Vānaṁ gato yad harim āśrayet. "Go, leave your, this so-called family, home, and go to the forest and take shelter of Kṛṣṇa." That is advised by Prahlāda Mahārāja. "That is the best thing in life. If you want to be free from anxiety, give up this so-called family life. Go to the forest and take shelter of Lord Kṛṣṇa." That is Prahlāda Mahārāja's advice. Don't try to adjust it. It will not be possible.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Especially in Kali-yuga.
Prabhupāda: Especially in Kali-yuga. So we are offering them shelter that "In this age you are not accustomed to go to the forest. It will be more inconvenient. Come to our center and be Kṛṣṇa conscious and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Your problems will be solved." This is our mission. Everyone is faced with problem. Otherwise why there is majority of suicide? Everyone is faced with problem.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's best to go this way.
Harikeśa: Oh, somebody hitting.
Prabhupāda: Shilling?
Harikeśa: No, they are playing golf.
Prabhupāda: He should always consider, "There is woman, that's all. She is my mother." That's all. Matṛvāt para-dareṣu. Then what is the...? Suppose you sit down with your mother and chant. What is the wrong? But he is not so strong; then he should go to the forest. Why he should live in the Nairobi city? On the street there are so many women. He will walk on the street closing the eyes? (laughter) This is all rascaldom. They are rascals. They are not devotees, simply rascals.
Indian man (4): Some of our devotee goes to the other temple like Swami Nārāyaṇa and they want to see the ladies there, so then they are taking these instruction from them.
Prabhupāda: Our devotees go to Swami Nārāyaṇa?
Prabhupāda: Śānti means to become devotee. Otherwise there is no question of. Jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati. That is wanted. If one does not know Kṛṣṇa, where is śanti? Kuto śanty ayuktasya. Even Dhruva Mahārāja, he was... He became too much restless, being insulted by stepmother. He went to the forest, but there was no śanti. He was always restless. Nārada Muni came, advised him that "You are a child. Why you are so much agitated by so-called insult, family talks?" And "No, I don't want your advice." He refused. Then Nārada Muni gave him initiation, that "This boy is very strong." But actually, when he realized God, then he became svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yace: (CC Madhya 22.42) "My dear Lord, now I am fully satisfied. I have no desire." This is śanti. Even mokṣa-vaṁcha is not śanti because there is demand: "I want mokṣa." The karmīs, they want sense gratification; the jñānīs, they want liberation; the yogis, they want mystic power, aṣṭa-siddhi. Only the devotee, he doesn't want.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because Kṛṣṇa is there, if He sees somebody is actually serious to understand Him—just like Dhruva Mahārāja. Dhruva Mahārāja, did not..., he did not make any guru, but with fervent desire he went, "Yes, I shall find out Kṛṣṇa." Mother said "Kṛṣṇa can be found in the forest," so he went to the forest, and he began according to his own way. Then Kṛṣṇa sent Nārada Muni, that "This boy is very serious. Go and give him real mantra." That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu, guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). Two things required: guru and Kṛṣṇa. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja. Mālī hañā kare sei bīja koro āropana. "I have got some seed of bhakti, and I keep it in the iron chest." No. You must make cultivation of bhakti-bīja: mali hañā sei bia koro āropana. And how to nourish the bīja? Śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye śecana: (CC Madhya 19.152) by śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. Water is this. Then bhakti-latā will come out a tree, and you will get the fruits and enjoy.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: ...in so-called transcendental meditation, go to the Himalaya and go to the forest. We are not interested in all this nonsense. Our only business is to spread Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, door to door, town to town, city to city. We are not going to seclusion. Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "This is professional bluff: 'I am going to the Himalaya. I am going to the forest.' " Prahlāda Mahārāja condemns that "These are professional bluffs." Or they may be sincere, but still, they are trying for their own salvation. Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "I am not interested in that sal... I am interested for everyone's salvation. Everyone must go back to home, back to..." That is Vaiṣṇava, not that "For my own salvation I go to Himalaya or in the forest and transcendental meditation, nonsense..."
Prabhupāda: ...clean. That also we sometimes neglect. (break)...means rūpena jāyate iti prajā. Everything which is born, that is prajā. (break) ...children, our grandmother used to engage us for watering work, these pots. And that water was brought from down, two, three stories down, and we used to bring and put. That is good exercise and sport also, competition between children. (break) ...karma jyāyo hy akarmaṇaḥ. Everyone should be engaged. That is supervision. (break) ...are also engaged in serving Kṛṣṇa. They give flower, and they're offering: "Take this flower. Offer to Kṛṣṇa." This is service, dedicating. This is explained by Kṛṣṇa to Balarāma while going through the Vṛndāvana forest, that "Just see how the trees are welcoming You, how the birds..." You have got that picture?
Prabhupāda: She said, "If Kṛṣṇa likes, then you can take revenge. Otherwise there is no possibility." "Where is Kṛṣṇa? I want to see Him." Child.... (Hindi) She said, "I have heard that Kṛṣṇa is in the forest. Big, big saintly persons go there and meet Him, so far I know, my dear son." "So I'll go there." So this four-year, five-years-old boy went to the forest, and he saw Kṛṣṇa within, Viṣṇu, within six months by his austerity, by meditating and observing austerity, living on water, on folio (foliage?), air, in this way, six months, he got the opportunity of seeing Viṣṇu directly. And there is a big story. Later on he was enthroned on the father's seat. He became very big king. But his younger brother, the same brother, was killed by the Yakṣas in the fight. So he wanted to take revenge on the Yakṣas, and he was killing the Yakṣas like anything. Then the Yakṣas' father, Kuvera, he came to him with other, recommendation of other demigods, that "You are a Vaiṣṇava. It is not good for you that you are killing so many Yakṣas indiscriminately.
Prabhupāda: No, for village the government is not going to keep such nice road. This government department, forest department.... The government policy is to develop these places for industry in future. This industry is the cause of falldown of the human society—industry. So the reaction is.... The industry, two things required—four things required: land, labor, capital, and organization. So now the industry is going on, and the capitalists and labor, there is fight. The laborers, they are finding out that "We are working. Why the capitalists will take the profit?" This is communism. Is it not?
Akṣayānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Nalinī-kānta: If we want to make the world Kṛṣṇa conscious...
Prabhupāda: Vedic civilization is in the forest. Go to the forest.
Hari-śauri: Renounce.
Prabhupāda: Neither in the city nor in the village. Go to the forest.
Lokanātha: But there were cities like Dvārakā.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but the ideal is vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5). Go to the forest and depend on Kṛṣṇa and live there. And that is perfection. Vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5). Go to the forest and remain, depending on Kṛṣṇa. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Then what do you want more? And simply by chanting, dancing, and eating prasādam you are making progress. Therefore it is su-sukham. You haven't got to press your nose and make your head down and starve for three hundred years, nothing like that. Go to the forest, go to the Himalayas.... No. At your place you chant, dance, and take prasādam. That's all. (break)
Guru-kṛpā: (in car) Therefore any other argument that we present, they...
Prabhupāda: There is no argument. "You remain yourself. Let us remain peaceful. You remain peaceful. We are following our mahājana." Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). We have got so many exalted mahājanas. Vyāsadeva, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, Nārada, Asita, Devala, Arjuna, in recent, in the recent years, within two thousand years, all the ācāryas. So we are safe. We don't require your help.
Prabhupāda: Then vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta: (SB 7.5.5) "He must go to vana." When one goes to vana, it is called vānaprastha. So after family life, according to Vedic civilization, one has to accept vānaprastha life. And when one is fully prepared, he takes sannyāsa after vānaprastha life. So vanaṁ gataḥ means one should prepare by going to the forest for the next life of renounced order of life. That is human civilization: brahmacārī, gṛhasta, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. Sannyāsa means full engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5). Otherwise, what is the use of going to the forest? In the forest there are many monkeys also. So that kind of life is not harim āśrayeta. He must take shelter of the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Hari. That is oṁ tat sat. And then he'll be happy. That is Vedic civilization. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is teaching to the boys, his class friends. He was five-years-old boy. Naturally, his friends are also of the same age, and he's teaching this bhāgavata-dharma. Read this.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, one should be trained to be a perfect brahmacārī in the beginning of life, and then to be perfect in sense control, following the regulative principles, if one becomes a householder. From household life one is ordered to accept vānaprastha life and go to the forest and then accept sannyāsa. That is the perfection of life. From the very beginning of life, those who are ajitendriya, who cannot control their senses, are educated only for sense gratification, as we have seen in the Western countries. Thus the entire duration of a life of even one hundred years is wasted and misused, and at the time of death one transmigrates to another body, which may not be human. At the end of one hundred years, one who has not acted as a human being in a life of tapasya (austerity and penance) must certainly be embodied again in a body like those of cats, dogs and hogs. Therefore this life of lusty desires and sense gratification is extremely risky."
Prabhupāda: When he is fully trained, if he likes he is allowed to marry. Thus he is not an ordinary gṛhastha who has learned only how to satisfy his senses. A trained gṛhastha can gradually give up household life and go to the forest to become increasingly enlightened in spiritual life and at last take sannyāsa. Prahlāda Mahārāja explained to his father that to be freed from all material anxieties one should go to the forest. Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam. One should give up his household, which is a place for going further and further down into the darkest regions of material existence. The first advice, therefore, is that one must give up household life (gṛham andha-kūpam). However, if one prefers to remain in the dark well of household life because of uncontrolled senses, he becomes increasingly entangled by ropes of affection for his wife, children, servants, house, money and so on. Such a person cannot attain liberation from material bondage. Therefore children should be taught from the very beginning of life to be first-class brahmacārīs. Then it will be possible for them to give up household life in the future. To return home, back to Godhead, one must be completely free from material attachment. Therefore, bhakti-yoga means vairāgya-vidyā, the art that can help one develop a distaste for material enjoyment.
Prabhupāda: That I was certain. At the beginning I was...
Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda was certain that they would accept.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think, Prabhupāda, that your exploits here are no less great than Lord Caitanya going into the Jhārikhaṇḍa forest and making the animals dance.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You are the modern-day representative of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Prabhupāda: This is building construction?
Devotee (1): Appears so. Telephone company.
Prabhupāda: The Bell?
Prabhupāda: Therefore my Guru Mahārāja used to say, "This is not a place for a gentleman." Formerly, therefore, they used to go away from the society, go in the forest, to give up this bad association. Live alone.
Hari-śauri: Practically speaking, that's what we've done. By your establishing these temples, it's given us someplace to go where we can get out of Kali-yuga.
Prabhupāda: Therefore our temples should be very carefully managed. It may not become again another pandemonium.
Harikeśa: Pan-demon. Pan-demon-ium.
Hari-śauri: Says that in the dictionary.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended, paraṁ vijāyate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. Just like if you remain in touch with the fire, certainly you become warm. So if you remain always in touch with Kṛṣṇa, then you become Kṛṣṇized. Very easy. You haven't gone to the forest or Himalaya or meditate. Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is recommended in the śāstra: harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva (CC Adi 17.21). You cannot perform any severe austerities, penance. Wherever you remain, you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And you become perfect. If not in one day... But you will become, if you continue chanting. And where is the difficulty? Where is the loss? And if there is some gain, why don't you try it? That is intelligence. I am not losing anything by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. If there is any gain, why not chant? Huh?
Prabhupāda: Yes, you must have such government. Dasyu-dharyogi (?). They will snatch your money by force. You cannot say anything. That is punishment. Godless civilization, that is punishment, that your own government will snatch, by force, take away your hard labor accumulation, by taxes. That is written in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You cannot fight. You will be harassed in so many ways you will become mad. Ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā yāsyanti giri-kānanam. Hopelessly you will leave hearth and home and go to the forest. This godless civilization will be punished like that. That day is coming like that. Nobody will be peaceful. They will be mad. Just like when a man becomes mad, he commits suicide, he blows off his head. This will be done. There will be no rain—this is one punishment—and scarcity of food and heavy taxation by government. They are all mentioned. What more suffering you want? But still they are advancing, scientists.
Prabhupāda: That is the speciality. The guru... One should go to guru to serve him as menial servant. That is acceptance of guru. That is required. Nīcavat. Nīca, nīca means menial. Just like menial servant, he does everything. Similarly, to live with guru means to serve him as a menial servant. That is Vedic injunction. Nīcavat. You should not be puffed up, that "I am coming from such royal family, I am coming from such rich family." And that tendency is trained up from the childhood. A child does not know. Just like Pradyumna's son. You can engage him in any menial service. He does not discriminate. He's trained up. So this is gurukula. Very word is used, nīcavat. He gives service to the guru just like a menial servant. And this training being given from the childhood, he does not know what is low or what is high. His spiritual master asks to do something... Even Kṛṣṇa went to the forest to collect some dry wood. Vasudeva's son, in royal family, but he had to go. And all of a sudden there was storm and, what is called?
Prabhupāda: Māyāpur, yes. So we are giving, as far as possible, comfortable life. Because modern man, he cannot go to the forest and live underneath a tree. That is not possible. Therefore by begging, begging, spending blood, we are getting money all over the world and spend it like this. For me, I can live anywhere. And I can collect one or two ruṭi anywhere. It is not for me. It is for you. I have invited. Come here, stay and preach this cult, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. That I want. People are being cheated all over the world shamelessly.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is...
- yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ
- manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ
- yasmin sthite guruṇāpi
- duḥkhena na vicālyate
- (Bg. 6.20-23)
This is culture. "So long I have got money, I am very happy." No! "If there is not a single farthing, still, I'll be happy." That is real culture. That can be done That is possible when one is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. He went to the forest to ask Kṛṣṇa to give him a very nice kingdom, but when he met Kṛṣṇa, Nārāyaṇa—He wanted to give him benediction—he said, svamin kṛtartho 'smi varaṁ na yace: (CC Madhya 22.42) "Bas, no more vara." So we have got such things. Guruṇāpi duḥkhena na vicālyate (Bg. 6.20-23). Never disturbed. That is culture. And "So long I have got money in the pocket, I am very happy"—that is dog civilization.
Prabhupāda: Everyone is very worried. That is described by Prahlāda Mahārāja. When Hiraṇyakaśipu... After all, they are father and son. He inquired from the son, "My dear son, what best thing you have learned?"S So he said, "My dear..." He did not say "My dear father." He said "The best of the asuras." He addressed his father, "The best of the asuras." Tat sādhu manye asura varya dehinam. "My dear the best of the asuras..." He was the best of the asuras. "So I think that is best education..." Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām. Dehināṁ sadā samudvignam asad-grahāt. (break) We have got good rooms like this, not that one has to go to the forest. Even in the Vṛndāvana we have got very good room, but nobody's coming. This is the position. After fiftieth year, voluntarily one must commit civil suicide—no family. And that is Vedic. But he will think of family up to the point of being killed by this revolver. This is going on. Even Gandhi, what to speak of others. He presented himself as very tyāgī, but unless he was killed, he did not give up his ambition. "How my sons, how my countrymen will be happy?"
Prabhupāda: And the Western countries, they have been taught to become independent. That is artificial. That is all artificial. So, woman by nature... Manu-saṁhitā says, na striyaṁ svatantram arhati: "Women should not be given independence." They must be protected by the father, by husband, and by elderly sons. They are not independent. No independence. Even Kuntī, the mother of such big, big sons, she was not independent. The sons were sent to the exile; mother also went. Sītā... The father-in-law never said that "You also go with your husband." No. He requested Rāmacandra that "Your stepmother wants that You should be exiled. So please accept it. Accept this." And Rāmacandra said that "You are not exiled." But Sītā said, "I may not be exiled, but I am dependent on You. If You go to the forest I must..." You see? Just see, dependent.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So the gṛha-vrata... If we keep ourself gṛha-vrata, then either guru or personally or by sat-saṅga, nothing will help us. Matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām. Why? Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Chewing the chewed. (break) Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśaya ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). If one is trying to be happy by material adjustment, that is durāśayā. It will never be.... (break) Yāvan na ghṛnita mahīyasāṁ pada-rājobhiṣekam. Yavan na ghrnita. Bhāgavata śloka, each word, each line, concentrated. Vyāsadeva's contribution, last thing; by Nārada's upadeśa. And this is the only means of anarthopaśamam. You have created anarthas, and human life is meant for arthadam. But.... Hare Kṛṣṇa. So therefore real Vedic civilization is that gradually we have to give up this gṛha-vrata position. At one time you must voluntarily give up. Although I do not like to give up, still, by the order of the śāstra, one has to give up. Pañcasordhvam vanam vrajet. Vrajet means compulsory. Just like we accept so many things compulsory, similarly, to give up family attachment after fiftieth year, that is compulsory. We therefore invite all the compulsory, what is called, renouncement. Of course, nobody can go to the forest.
Prabhupāda: I don't think. That is stated, what you are saying, that in Kali-yuga people will be so fallen. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā (SB 1.1.10). They are mandāḥ, bad, or very slow. Mandāḥ. And they have got their own manufactured ideas, sumanda-matayo. Not only mandāḥ, but they have got their own manufactured idea. And manda-bhāgyā, unfortunate. And upadrutāḥ. The first thing, three things, upadrava, disturbances... One disturbance is there will be no rainfall, and therefore there will be scarcity of food, and government will tax like anything. People will be so harassed that they will leave their hearth and home and go to the forest. this is awaiting in the Kali-yuga. But if you take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, you'll be saved.
Prabhupāda: No. Therefore I am speaking you how to answer. (long pause) So much land lying vacant. Yajñād bhavanti parjanyaḥ. There is no yajña. Therefore there is no rain. (break) ...and it will increase. Because the people will increase their godlessness, so the rainfall will stop. Now lick up your motorcar. This is going on. Anavṛṣṭya durbhikṣa dāra-pīḍitaḥ. One side, anavṛṣṭi, there is no food grain, and government taxation. People will be so harassed, they will leave their hearth and home and go to the forest. Cannot manage. (break) ...God awakening your country to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Someway or other, there is agitation. This agitation must go on and then turn it towards favorable time. Agitation is there. That is good. (japa) (break)
Prabhupāda: "If I go with application, what education I have got? Nobody will like me." He's hopeless in that way. "So let me try in my own way." He's earning ten rupees. And the other man, he's starving and taking help from the government, eating at the cost of father. This is education. Otherwise he is becoming hippie. Is that education? And in the Vedic system—education for the brāhmaṇa, how to learn to be truthful, how to control senses, how to become educated in Vedic knowledge. It is for brāhmaṇa. Bas, education, a few men selected. Kṣatriya, he has to learn how to fight: "Go. Fight. Go in the forest and kill animals and lie, try again, learn how to kill." Education. Vaiśya—"Go to the field. See how the plow is moved, how to give protection to the..." Finish education. And śūdra, he has to work under the order of the master. Master says, "Do this": he'll do it. So where is education required, high education, university degrees? And the government is maintaining big, big building, big, big professor, and the professor is... What is that? You told me? Gargamuni was telling.
Prabhupāda: Forest breeze is very healthy. So let us arrange.
Mr. Dwivedi: This is literally correct. If from the boundary of our school I take a gofen(?) and throw a stone, it will go to the forest next side.
Prabhupāda: So make arrangement.
Mr. Dwivedi: And very near about there are beautiful places. Mahārāja will be able to enjoy them only from below, but we have a Kedara Sakti, a beautiful cave temple.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Mr. Dwivedi: And round about the whole year from the mountain water flows back, water drizzles over a banyan tree and then inside into the mountain...
Prabhupāda: It is waterfall.
Prabhupāda: Be householder as it is in the civilized codes, human history, they are... Otherwise refrain. Householder does not mean to satisfy, what is called, itching sensation of the genitals. That is not householder. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). To satisfy the itching sensation, that is not householder. Here is householder. Protect your children from death. Can you do that? That kind of householder, at least, the trees on the street, everywhere... There is no question of becoming householder. The whole Bhagavad-gītā... Arjuna, he was householder. He was politician. So he did not give up anything. Before his hearing Bhagavad-gītā he was the same, a large family, and he was fighting for some material interests. And after hearing Bhagavad-gītā he remained the same, not that he gave up fighting and went to the forest. These things are not required. But he changed his consciousness-kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). And that is required. You remain in any condition of life, but follow the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. That is the perfection.
Prabhupāda: "I want this." Maybe I want better thing than you, but I want. I am in need. So therefore those who are in need, they cannot be happy. Bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī sakali aśānta, kṛṣṇa-bhakta niṣkāma (CC Madhya 19.149). Kṛṣṇa-bhakta doesn't want anything. Ataeva śānta. So he is... He is satisfied. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: (CC Madhya 22.42) "I don't want. I am fully satisfied." Dhruva Mahārāja, he went to the forest, underwent very severe austerity, and when Lord Viṣṇu appeared before him—"Take benediction, whatever you like"—he said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: "I have no more demand. I am fully satisfied." So this is the teaching. If we want to be fully satisfied, without any demand for sense gratification, then we become happy, and that is available in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye. We don't want. People want money and many followers, nice wife, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu refuses.
Prabhupāda: Up-to-date gentlemen, they hate to come, Vṛndāvana. They know it is a place for guṇḍās. Pāṇḍās means guṇḍās. (laughter)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you are expert at preaching to the guṇḍās. Therefore everyone becomes converted by your preaching. We were all guṇḍās. I think that your coming to America was no less fearless than Lord Caitanya when He went into the Jhārikhaṇḍa forest to preach, Śrīla Prabhupāda. In fact, we were worse than the animals that Lord Caitanya had to deal with. At least an animal keeps to his nature. Just like you described that boy that who was taking... You were staying in his loft, and he was taking intoxicants. He was acting like you could not calculate what he would do. Animals you can expect something. And you were there alone. Single-handedly, you were walking around in the streets. Sometimes New York is called a jungle.
| Page Title: | Go to the forest (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 25 of Feb, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=72, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 72 |