Prabhupāda: In this universe only Brahmā has got four hands. Nobody within this universe. And Viṣṇu also. In this brahmāṇḍa, in this universe, there is a planet where the ocean is of milk. Here, just like salted water. There are many oceans. Ocean of oil, ocean of ghee, ocean of milk. The ocean of oil, you have got experience in this planet. Within the earth you are getting some... Your civilization depending, your motor car civilization is depending on that ocean of oil. You are getting oil and lavishly spending it. Stock is supplied by God. Your material advancement will be finished if the stock is not supplied by the Lord. So these foolish men, they do not know. They think that "Without God we can live." Who has created the ocean of petroleum within the earth? Is it possible for human being?
Ghee (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: This pancapātra.
Haṁsadūta: What do you put in there? Ghee?
Prabhupāda: No. Water. Ācamana. And what is this?
Himāvatī: Look inside.
Prabhupāda: Jagannātha?
Himāvatī: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Whatever you like. You give me four capātīs, little rice, and little vegetable. That's all. Don't put much butter, ghee. Yes.
Śyāma dasi: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Old age, we cannot now digest too much butter. That creates air. Although at night I don't take anything. Once I eat. And in the morning I take little fruits. That's all.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Germans. If you eat meat, you very quickly can get fat. Also too much ghee also. That is also. But ghee will increase your belly only. Just the Marwaris... (laughter) But by eating flesh you'll get sturdy, good lump of muscles. That is... In Āyur-Veda there is a chapter which is called Dravya-guṇa. There is a book, Dravya-guṇa. So they have analyzed so many different kinds of flesh-birds, beasts, animals. How they have analyzed? That "If you eat this kind flesh you will get this kind of result." Hundreds of fleshes. What do they know? They can eat only cow's flesh or dog's flesh or hog's flesh. Yes. But there are so many, even birds, beasts, animals, and so many, analysis. And Bernard Shaw, I think, he wrote one book, "You Are What You Eat."
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: They are not putting their hand on the oil. It is called yajña, offering ghee to the fire. This is Vedic, this is Vedic ritual, to offer clarified butter and grains in the fire. Fire is supposed to be the mouth of God. So we are offering eatables to the Supreme Person, rūpa.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is secondary. That is not very difficult. Just like this Mālatī made purī. So there is flour and there is ghee, and she made purī, but unless there is ghee and flour, where is the chance of making purī? (pause) In the Bhagavad-gītā there is this, "Water, earth, air, fire, they are made of My energy."
Bob: Business with you, what was that? Business with who?
Prabhupāda: That is, I am talking about my Guru Mahārāja.
Bob: Oh, oh, I see. (break) ...question on prasādam, if I may. Let us say if some devotee has some trouble and does not eat a certain type of food. Like some devotees do not eat ghee because of liver trouble. So these devotees, should they take all the prasādam?
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. I say those who are not perfect devotee, they may discriminate. But a perfect devotee does not discriminate. So why should you imitate a perfect devotee? So long you have discrimination, you are not a perfect devotee. So artificially why should you imitate a perfect devotee and eat everything?
Bob: Oh-h.
Prabhupāda: The point is, a perfect devotee does not make any discrimination. Whatever is offered to Kṛṣṇa, it is nectar. That's all. Just like exactly Kṛṣṇa accepts anything from a devotee. "Whatever is offered to Me by My devotee," He accepts. The same thing for a devotee.
Prabhupāda: Because he sells, I mean to say, confectionery made of pure ghee you'll find always hundreds of customers waiting. And there are many dalda ghee shop not so crowded. Some cheap men are going there. So anything you present pure, there will be automatic customer. And that is being proved. We are presenting Kṛṣṇa as He is, and He is being accepted everywhere, all over the world. But as soon as you make adulteration Kṛṣṇa, manufacture your concoction—"Kṛṣṇa means this, Kurukṣetra means this," all nonsense talk—immediately lost. Why should we do that, adulteration? There is no business adulterating. So many scholars, so many swamis, they have simply presented adulterated. Just like even Mahatma Gandhi says, "The Kurukṣetra means this body." And where he got this meaning? Where is the dictionary meaning? You should speak something which must be authorized. Where is the dictionary where Kurukṣetra is explained as this body? And Kurukṣetra station is still existing. People are going to Kurukṣetra for religious performances. Kuru-kṣetre dharma-kṣetre. Why should I interpret Kurukṣetra, "the body"? This is going on. So that will not be effective. It may be effective, a few person, somebody's admirer. But it will not go far above that. But if you present as it is, it will be accepted by any real inquirer.
Prabhupāda: Ah. And he should not take at all ghee. No fatty preparation. And if it is possible, secure papaya, raw papaya, green, and boil it in the... These are the medicine for jaundice. He is inside this room? He has come back?
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: So, so you have come to Vṛndāvana, and just go on with bhajana, Rūpa Gosvāmī's place, and we are trying to construct a temple.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Rice, yes. In Bengali we call muḍi. It is very popular, staple food for ordinary, everyone. In Bengal village, it is very popular because they're rice eaters. From rice they make this puffed rice. So they taking it in the morning. Puffed rice, mixed with molasses and cheese. It makes very good combination. Similarly... Puffed rice must be there, and fruits, like mango, banana, little molasses, and cheese mixed together. It is very nice. (indistinct) This jackfruit... Puffed rice is the vehicle for eating all this. Or if these things are not available, then mix with ghee, little and salt, pepper and, what is called? Cucumber.
Prabhupāda: In the Marwari community is, that is called... channa, channa. Channa and ghee, they can make varieties of preparations. Channa powder, chick pea flour, besan, besan. You know besan? Yes. From besan they make so many varieties. Besan, ghee and sugar.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Cows.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Useful, giving milk. Most humble, useful. Even after death it is useful. And they are so rascal, they are taking care of the dog, not of the cow. Just see how they are rascals. And they are advanced, civilized. They do not know what is meant by civilization. Now, according to Vedic scripture, cow killing is sinful. It is never written, dog killing is sinful. Generally, any animal you kill, that is sinful. But especially cow killing is sinful. Go-hatya. Go-hatya. And that cow killing is going on by the Christian world, and still, they are religious. What kind of religion? Christian religion says generally, "Thou shalt not kill." All... And especially they are killing cows. Generally killing and especially killing. First thing is why they shall kill at all? In America, oh, they have got sufficient food. So much rice, so much wheat, so much oats, fruits, grains and butter and ghee. So why they shall kill? What is the reason?
Umāpati: Uncontrollable tongue.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now what is that bird who is killed in Christmas?
Devotees: Turkey.
Prabhupāda: Oh. What is this, "K.C.C. Ghee"?
Guest (1): Ghee.
Śrutakīrti: Ghee. I don't know where it's from.
Prabhupāda: K.C.C?
Śrutakīrti: Nairobi, Kenya. It was made and packed by...
Haṁsadūta: Brahmānanda.
Prabhupāda: That ghee, Nairobi, is very nice ghee.
Śrutakīrti: Yes, very good.
Prabhupāda: Australia also.
Śrutakīrti: New Zealand.
Prabhupāda: This ghee-producing animal, and they're killing. Just see how much injustice. They have no sense even. I exact from you all the resources, and then I kill you.
Prabhupāda: Every... Everything has two sides, black side and bright side. We are interested with the bright side. Black side we can point out, but anyone who is sincere, he'll take the bright side. Sajjano guṇam icchanti doṣam icchanti pāmaraḥ. There are guṇa and doṣa, fault and good qualities. So those who are sajjana, they take the good qualities, give up the bad qualities. Then there, gradually things will come out. But if we accept God, "God is all-good," then all good qualities automatically manifest. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). All good qualities manifest. If you remain with the fire, you become warm. The quality is acquired. If you remain in the sunshine, you become warm. Because sun is warm. So you acquire the quality. So if we remain always with Kṛṣṇa, then we acquire the qualities of Kṛṣṇa. So God is all-good. Therefore I become good, by association with God. It is very simple reasoning. Yes. God is all-good. So if you remain always with God, then you become good. The same example: if you remain with fire, you become warm, the quality of the fire. If you remain in sunshine, you become warm. And the more you remain, the more you become warmer, warmer. Then become hot. Yes. Just like you put one rod, iron rod in the fire. It becomes warm, warmer, warmer. Then it will be red-hot. When it is red-hot, it is no longer iron rod. It is fire. Touch anywhere, it will burn. (pause) So from Nairobi they import ghee here, I think.
Śrutakīrti: Goloka Vṛndāvana, are there still varieties he said.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. There are varieties. Ānanda, ānanda, pleasure means varieties. Variety is the mother of enjoyment. Without varieties, just like we prepare from grains, sugar, ghee, hundreds of varieties. If you simply give grain, ghee and sugar, it will not be enjoyable. But the same thing, you prepare in varieties and give you a plate, oh, you'll say, "Oh, so nice thing." The ingredients are the same. Grains, ghee and sugar, that's all. Similarly, this material world, the ingredients are the same. Namely five gross elements and three subtle elements, finer. Earth, water, air, fire, sky. These are gross elements. And mind, intelligence, ego these are finer elements. Combined together this material world has come. The brain behind is a living entity. Just like we are using these ingredients, these five elements: earth, water, air, fire, sky, making this building, making this table, making this chair, vase, so many things, harmonium, pictures, book. So the ingredients are the same, but my brain is working in different varieties. My brain or your brain. Human brain. Similarly this material cosmic manifestation is full of varieties. The brain behind it is Kṛṣṇa. That is stated, you have read our Bhagavad-gītā?
Guest: I've taken a look.
Prabhupāda: It must be difficult. It must be difficult, because the so-called advancement has not helped the people. In our childhood we purchased ghee one rupee, first-class. Now it is not available. And this is advancement of civilization.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is rational. One who has got reason. "So this man wants to check me." So he stops. For eating, he has rational, what is his eatable. Dog does not like preparation made with too much ghee. They will like meat, rotten meat, and dried bones. That is rational. "This is my food."
Prabhupāda: And in Burma, my Guru Mahārāja opened a branch. So when they were frying puri, the, nice ghee, all the tenants, "Oh! What you are...!?" (laughter) They cannot tolerate. But in Burma, there is a preparation which is called nafi. The nafi means that a, a big jar will be kept on the door, and whatever animals, insect, cockroaches will die, they'll put in that. And during rainy season, it will be filled with water. And it will be kept for years. Then... And the bad smell was so terrible that if somebody would open the lid, it will immediately create very bad smell. So after some years, they will strain the water and keep in bottle. And when there is festival, they'll supply it in small... That is called nafi. And they'll take it very pleasantly. And when they were frying ghee, "Oh! What you are doing, this?!
Prabhupāda: This we will take more, it will not harm, but the other, if you take little less.... (break) Mexico? No.
Guest: There is good butter.
Prabhupāda: Butter?
Guest: Very good butter. I suppose you could make good ghee out of it. The butter there is, you know, like uh...
Prabhupāda: Are there any flowers there? There are so many flowerstall.
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And there in Mexico, in Mexico where I saw "Mahātmā Gandhi (Road?)."
Devotee: That was in Mexico.
Guru dāsa: In Mexico City they have many streets named after famous men.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Guru Dāsa: Yeah. Mexico City. Mahātmā Gandhi.
Prabhupāda: There in the city. I saw Mahātmā Gandhi Street.
Prabhupāda: Ah. And to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, it does not require any expensive material. If you have nothing to offer, you can offer patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ. He will be satisfied. And performing this yajña and other, oh, you have got to collect so much ghee, so much grain, so much mantras, so many learned brāhmaṇas and this and that. You have nothing to do. Anywhere, any part of the world, universal. Any man, poor man, rich man, can offer Kṛṣṇa whatever He has got. Kṛṣṇa is satisfied.
Prabhupāda: Material energy, yes. And the living entities, they are also energy, spiritual energy. Two energies. Two energies means just like fire. Fire has got two energies, heat and light. Similarly, the whole creation is combination of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore everything is Kṛṣṇa. Is it not? Yes. Just like you take milk. From milk you prepare so many milk preparations. You prepare yogurt, you prepare ghee, you prepare rasagullā, you prepare burfi and so many others. But therefore, actually, all of them are milk. This is... Under different combination only. In the milk, if you put some sour thing, it becomes yogurt. But it is milk. And that sour thing also, which is put into the milk, that is also Kṛṣṇa. (break) Why He is originally person, try to understand. And all these energies are imperson. Just like I am a person, you are a person. But when I... My temperature is imperson. Is it not? I have got temperature, if you put thermometer. That is imperson. So person is the origin, and the impersonal temperature is the energy.
Prabhupāda: No, we have to make this propaganda because we are servant of Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa orders, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). So we must take to agricultural work to produce food and give protection to the cows. And if there is excess product, we trade. This simple thing we must do. Therefore I'm anxious to take outside Paris this center. Our people should live there peacefully, produce food grains, give protection to the cows, and work hard. And if there is excess product, you can make money also. With ghee, you can start so many restaurants. That I have already... I have discussed on this point. We can make good money. We'll not be loser. Kṛṣṇa conscious men, they'll be never loser by following the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. They'll live comfortably without any material want, and tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), and after leaving this body, go to, directly to God. This is also...
Yogeśvara: We can produce food and ghee on the farm, and then bring it and make prasādam and sell it in the restaurant.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We, suppose we make ghee there. We can make sandeśa there. We can make rasagullā. We can make so many things, especially ghee. So open restaurant in any part of the city, and make nice kachoris, puri, halavā and so many other things, juri,(?) and people will purchase it. They'll come and sit down. I've given all the... That every foodstuff is ready. You sit down. Whatever you like, you take. And this is our charge for one plate. Don't waste. Just like it is distributed. You take one, two, three, four, as much as you like. But don't waste. Don't waste. So so far for your eating sumptuously, the charge is set. Suppose this man eats only one cake and you eat four cakes. That does not mean we shall charge more.
Madhudviṣa: Give a napkin. It's a sweet preparation called gulab jamin. It is all prepared just from milk which has been made into curd, and then the curd has been fried in ghee, cooking ghee, and then after it has been fried, it has been soaked in sweet water and it is very palatable. It's called a gulab jamin. It is a very famous delicacy of Indian cooking. It requires great skill and art to prepare these. And as our spiritual master said, there is actually hundreds and hundreds of food which can be prepared from this, like the cheese you have there. Even cooking cheese and spicing it with asafoetida and ginger, meat taste can be simulated very, very nicely.
Prabhupāda: This cheese as it is you take, it is as beneficial as meat.
Madhudviṣa: Protein.
Guest (2): Yes, yes. Similar protein.
Prabhupāda: So why the animal should be killed? Take milk.
Madhudviṣa: One thing that we would like to mention, as our spiritual master says, there is a definite, according to the Vedic scripture, there is a definite link between consumption of milk and development of fine brain tissues. And if your department of knowledge has some research in that area, we think it would be a great service to mankind if they can be informed how they can develop fine brain tissues. Fine brain tissues which are needed for coping with the problems of this day and age. Not that simply if I disagree with you we'll just fight. There has to be fine brain tissues in order to say, "Let us sit down and talk about this together." And we say, not we, but according to the scripture, there is a definite link between the consumption of milk products, not just milk, but cheese and all different milk products, the consumption of milk products and development of the necessary intellect. This is why, as our spiritual master said, the highly intelligent people of India have lived predominantly, not just drinking milk, but everything they ate was cooked in milk products. The vegetables, rice, even if rice was boiled, milk was put on, ghee was put on the rice. So that is like an unavoidable essential in their diet, not simply from the palatable standpoint, but actually from the relationship between the physical and the metaphysical progress.
Prabhupāda: And thousands of tons of ghee, clarified butter, was offered in the yajña. The smoke created a kind of cloud which is very good for cultivation.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Just like a good cook is a good chemist. He knows how to mix up the maśālās and ghee and makes very tasteful thing. So you can call him a good cook. The chemistry is nothing but mixture of different chemicals. That's all. There is oil. There is alkaline. You mix it very proportionately, and soap comes out, very useful.
Prabhupāda: No, not here. In the sky. There is sweet water, very sweet, nice water, drinking water, sea. Sea of ghee, sea of yogurt, sea of milk. Everything is there.
Madhudviṣa: There is a government house. Simply a monument now.
Prabhupāda: The governor lives there?
Madhudviṣa: Yes. They still let them fly the flag, the British flag.
Prabhupāda: British flag?
Madhudviṣa: They still let them fly the British flag on top of the house.
Prabhupāda: They have disconnected the British?
Prabhupāda: That you can see practically. They are not drunkards, they are not meat-eaters. From physiological point of view, they are very clean. They will never be attacked with so many diseases. Then they do not eat meat, means that is the most sinful, to kill others for the satisfaction of the tongue. God has given to the human society so many things to eat: nice fruits, nice flowers, nice grains, first-class milk. And from milk, you can prepare hundreds of nutritious foods. But they do not know the art. They are maintaining big, big slaughterhouse and eating meat. No discrimination. That means they are not even civilized. When man is not civilized, he kills one animal and eats because he does not know how to grow food. Just like we have got one farm land, in New Vrindaban. So we are preparing so first-class preparation from milk, the neighbours they come, they are astonished that from milk such nice preparation can be done, hundreds. So that means they are not even civilized, how to prepare nutritious food from milk. Milk-accepting that cow flesh and blood is very nutritious, that we also admit—but a civilized man utilizes the blood and meat in a different way. The milk is nothing but blood. But it is transformed into milk. And again, from milk you make so many things. You make yogurt, you make curd, you make ghee, so many things.
Prabhupāda: ...interested, just like you give somebody two kinds of vegetables and spices, ghee, and he makes a nice preparation. So people, these so-called scientists, they are like that. But we are after wherefrom the vegetable came. That is the difference.
Brahmānanda: Who supplied.
Prabhupāda: Who supplied. That is the difference. He is trying to take credit by mixing these vegetable and spices and salt and ghee, and he is expert in preparing a very nice, palatable... But we say that "Where you got the vegetables? Where you got the spices? Where you got the ghee?" And they are not concerned about that.
Nityānanda: There are some beehives down here behind this building. I have twelve, and every year we can get hundreds of pounds of honey. Honey is very nice because it does not spoil, just like ghee. It can keep for many, many months, or a long time. We can go up here to see the cows if you like. Right now they are milking them.
Prabhupāda: So if we go, it will be disturbed?
Nityānanda: Oh, no.
Prabhupāda: This is one sugarcane each? No. Two, three?
Nityānanda: Yes, at least three. People here in the country, they have lots of land, and they can grow the sugarcane very easily, but they will rather go to the store to buy the sugar.
Prabhupāda: Because they want to live in the city. That is the... Here if they grow, then they will be engaged here. They cannot go to the city.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then how the milk will be utilized?
Nityānanda: We make sweet rice and burfi, we take the cream to make butter and ghee, and all extra milk is made into curd. So it is all used. Thirty gallons a day.
Prabhupāda: One gallon means 6 pounds?
Nityānanda: Eight and a half.
Prabhupāda: Eight and a half pounds. In Vrindaban they get 1,000 pounds daily, New Vrindaban. What is that cottage?
Nityānanda: That what?
Devotees: Cottage there.
Nityānanda: That's a little house for the pump, water pump.
Prabhupāda: This fencing was done before?
Upendra: Because they make all the milk into ghee and distribute it. And vegetables... I heard that at the temple that they use powdered milk. In Philadelphia I questioned the... That carpenter who made your table? He (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Why powdered milk if there is sufficient milk?
Upendra: I don't know. I can't say firsthand, but from the man who lived there, one of the householders who lived there, he said powdered milk...
Prabhupāda: I don't think so.
Devotee (1): I have heard that.
Prabhupāda: No. This is not good. Ghee should be prepared where there is no more use. The Indian village, simply by keeping cows, they... Just like Nanda Mahārāja was keeping cows. Similarly there are many villages. So the system is: they have got a big pan, and whatever milk is collected, put into that pan. It is being warmed. So they drink, the whole family members. They drink milk whenever they like. So whatever milk remains at night, they have to convert it into yogurt. The next day they use milk and yogurt also, as he likes. Then, after converting the milk into yogurt, still, it remains. It is stocked. So when there is sufficient old yogurt, they churn it and then butter comes out. So they take the butter, and the water separated from the butter, that is called whey? Whey, yes. So they... Instead of dahl, they use this whey, for capati. It will be very healthy and tasty. And then the butter they turn into ghee.
Satsvarūpa: Only after the whole milk is consumed, then the other...
Prabhupāda: Milk you are collecting. So put in the pan. I have already explained. From milk stage to yogurt, yogurt to old yogurt, from old yogurt to butter, and then water, that whey. Then butter convert into ghee and whey, you can use, instead of drinking water, drink whey. Not a single drop of milk will be wasted, if you know how to do it. And you can take as much milk as possible, because ultimately it is going to be ghee. So if you start in the cities, nice restaurant, so ghee can be sold there. They'll pay for that. And they can prepare nice preparations, kachoris, samosa, sweetballs. Or milk, if you don't convert into yogurt, then naturally it will become... What is called?
Brahmānanda: Curd.
Prabhupāda: Curd. So curd you can send to the city. They will convert into sandeśa, rasagullā and other preparations, and ghee. That is being done. In India the villagers, they do that. They are, keep cows. Convert them into curd or ghee, and ghee and curd sent to the city, they have got regular price for that. There is no question of waste of milk at any stage. One must know how to do it. So you can keep as many cows as possible and collect as much milk from them. You can utilize. And if some of the villagers trained up, they can open nice restaurant in the city. Utilize the ghee, curd, for making nice confectionary. People will purchase like anything. Just like in our Rathayātrā festival, whatever sweets they prepared, all sold at good profit. Your countrymen, they did not see such nice things. And when they taste it—"Very nice."
Prabhupāda: How you'll do? You say you have no money. How you'll do it? Whole money is going to the stomach. All ghee, all money, everything. And becoming sick and sleepy. Whole day and night sleep. I do not know when it will be finished. What is the use of starting another Gurukula? Whatever you have taken, that is not yet finished. All savvy(?). And your report is, "Everything is all right." Everything is all right except nothing is finished. So I do not know how to do. There was shops made, and why it is closed again?
Dhanañjaya: Because Mr. Sharapi(?) came.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Let him go to the court. We shall see.
Brahmānanda: How will you bathe?
Dhanañjaya: Well, the ceremony would begin about ten in the evening, and we would bathe with water, ghee, honey, yogurt.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation with someone) (break) We shall go. How many? Four? Five?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Four, five. Should we have small kīrtana there also?
Brahmānanda: If we have kīrtana, we shall have to bring more men.
Prabhupāda: As they will send car.
Prabhupāda: So average, eighty rupees. So you are purchasing ghee, four kilos or more.
Dhanañjaya: Now we have stopped that.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Dhanañjaya: Now we have stopped. We've reduced the quantity.
Prabhupāda: Why you were purchasing more?
Dhanañjaya: We were purchasing because the ghee was being used in all the preparations, in all the vegetable preparations...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. So what is the price of four kilos?
Devotee (2): Eighty-eight rupees.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Dhanañjaya: Eighty-eight rupees.
Prabhupāda: So you collect only the ghee price. And what about others? Other, attar and sugar and so many things? That means you are spending hundred rupees, and the kitchen department, you are is collecting eighty rupees. So twenty rupees lost. Hm? So what is this business? What you are spending, you must collect also. Or balance you are eating?
Dhanañjaya: A few days ago a devotee donated three hundred rupees to the Deities.
Prabhupāda: Donated, that is all right. I am talking of the business.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Does not give list—then don't bring. Everyone must supply list in the evening and once it should... (aside) Jaya. It is not that Daivī-śakti gives one list—you have to go. What is this? Everything purchased in the morning, that's all. And rice, dahl, attar, ghee, for fifteen days. Only the raw fruits and vegetables should be purchased every morning. That's all.
Prabhupāda: They should be trained up, more people. Just like I went alone in Europe and America. So I have trained them. So it will depend on your training power, the more people will be attracted. If you advertise, "Come here," and if you have no power to attract them, then it will not be... You must be attractive to bring them. And that is spiritual attraction. You must behave yourself nicely. Then people will come. If you become purified, then naturally they will come. Just like if you prepare nice preparation with pure ghee, customers will be naturally attracted and they will pay and purchase. And if you prepare rubbish thing, one man may be cheated, but that will not be attraction for the general. Purity is required. That will attract. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). One must be pure. Then he will be able to attract.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They have finished all their theories. Still, they could not do anything. This is their position. (break) Margarine is also another bluff. It is oil; it is taken as ghee, er, butter.
Harikeśa: They say it's very healthy for you.
Prabhupāda: They will say.
Harikeśa: It doesn’t have all those cholesterols.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise how they will sell? They will say. They will present anything nonsense in flowery language, and people will be cheated. That's all.
Harikeśa: Americans can’t stand this butter and ghee. When we cook in these pure things like ghee, they become very upset.
Prabhupāda: Because meat-eaters.
Prabhupāda: Meat-eaters cannot digest ghee. Therefore in America, all of a sudden change of diet in our…, their stomach become upset. Just like animal, dogs, they cannot eat this ghee preparation.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They can’t take it.
Prabhupāda: They can’t take it. So these meat-eaters, like dogs, they cannot digest.
Prabhupāda: Bartering. So there is no need of money. Similarly, you go to another shop. You get. So you produce your food, and in exchange, in barter, you get all things, other things. Somebody is producing something, somebody is producing something. But it can be done. Suppose I am a blacksmith. You want some work from me. So you say that "I'll make this instrument for me." So I say, "You give me one kg paddy." So you give me one kg, I prepare you, so your necessity is fulfilled. Now I have got so much paddy. Now, I may go to purchase something else because I am blacksmith, so grains will be used for my eating, and for, say for ghee, I take the same grain somewhere. So where is the money need of?
Harikeśa: It's very difficult to cheat in that system. It's very difficult to cheat.
Prabhupāda: Cheat?
Harikeśa: In a system of bartering it's very hard to cheat.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no cheating. Everyone is simply simple, honest. And here the government begins cheating. He is engaging you to hard work day and night and paying you a piece of paper, where it is written "one hundred dollars." That's all. This is your society, cheating and cheater. That's all.
Prabhupāda: After all, vegetable will be eaten by somebody. So let government distribute there. Vegetable, grains, fruits, milk, ghee, yogurt, natural produce—they will be used by somebody. The government may store and distribute, those who are in need. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because this is necessary. You must have some shelter; you must eat; you must cover. That is necessary. So you do it. Grow food first of all to feed yourself sumptuously. You must get strength, and that is needed. But not for trade. The policy should be that you should be self-sufficient and save time for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is wanted. Yavad-ārtha prayojanam. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya yogo bhavati siddhi-daḥ. You shall eat whatever you require for proper upkeep of the body, not eating too much and sleeping whole day. Don't do that. Eat only what is absolutely necessary. Then you'll never be in want. People are engaged in material civilization means they are increasing the bodily demands, unnecessary. Just like this park. Why we have come to this park? We like this atmosphere. So similarly, in villages, everyone, if he has got some land, he can live simply without any gorgeous building. What is the use? Just have a cottage and have garden. You'll live very peacefully. But they're constructing big, big skyscraper building in the downtown, and they will have to come here by car for some peace of mind, and in the meantime, accident, police. This is the civilization, nonsense civilization. At weekend they will go to the village, country, and during the week-time they will work hard. This is their civilization, with the risk of life, running motor car eighty miles' speed. Every moment there is risk. What is this civilization? Most ludicrous civilization. So farming means if you live in a farm... Just like in New Vrindaban they are doing. Produce your own food, live peacefully, fresh vegetable, fresh grains, fresh milk, and prepare so many nice milk preparation, kachori, halavā with ghee. Offer to the Deity. Eat sufficiently. What is the use of going outside? Simple life and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. If you can organize that, that will be very nice.
Prabhupāda: No, formerly, three hundred years, you had some water; therefore the water is coming out. This is all nonsense. Seven generation before my great-grandfather ate some ghee, and still I have got the smell. (laughter) It is that argument. Huh? This kind of argument has no value. Water is... You can create water from your body. What is there? You are a doctor. What is your...? Eh? Medical men they are. No? Water is created. How the blood is created? He did not drink blood. This is nonsense argument. How we create blood? It is becoming. You do not know how it is, but you have got such potency that blood is being created. You even do not know how the blood is being done, but it is being. That is inconceivable energy. There are so many secretions. They are coming within the body. So everything is there.
Yaśomatīnandana: Two rupees in those days were lot of money.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Two rupees, nowadays forty rupees at least. Twenty times. Just like ghee. You can... Ghee or gold. Gold standard. So in our childhood, I have seen our mother used to purchase gold for ornaments-twenty rupees.
Prabhupāda: Why do you expect that? (break) ...capati, you apply little ghee?
Aksayānanda: For the guests.
Prabhupāda: And not for you?
Aksayānanda: No.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Aksayānanda: Because it's very expensive and not necessary.
Prabhupāda: No.
Aksayānanda: If you say it is necessary, we will do.
Prabhupāda: No, in this season it is necessary.
Aksayānanda: Very nice. We'll do. That is nice. A little more ghee should be there.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Yaśodānandana: Nava-dhānya. Rice with yogurt, rice with chilies, rice with dahl, rice with everything.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is system in South India, with rice, everything. Just like in North India we make purī, kachorī, balusai, sṛṅgāra. There is ghee, wheat, and sugar and salt, varieties, hundreds of variety.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe it has something to do with the weather. The colder weather?
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, in northern India, when there is some festival they will purchase, I mean to say, grains, means wheat and chānnā, and ghee and sugar. Then they will make hundreds of preparation out of it.
Indian man: Here we call it as poṅgal. Make it as poṅgal, we call it. It's chānnā, ghee, and sugar. We prepare it in...
Prabhupāda: Laḍḍu, you prepare laḍḍu? They prepare so many things. The main ingredient is this: besan, āttā, ghee, sugar. That's all. (break) ...also they eat rice more.
Prabhupāda: (break) So then the chance is lost. Repeatedly Kṛṣṇa is saying, "You give up all this habit. Just become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Sarva-dharmān..." Nobody will hear. "Why shall I not?" There is a Bengali song, cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo keno dekhbo nā: "If it is gratifying to my eyes, why shall I not see a beautiful woman? Why you are forbidding me?" Cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo: "It is pleasing to my eyes. Why you are forbidding me? This is going on. Cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo. If there is little happiness, don't mind it is flickering. It will go on. The Carvaka Muni: ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet: "Some way or other prepare foodstuff with ghee." "I have no money." Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā: "Just take. Beg, borrow, steal, bring ghee and prepare nice foodstuff and eat and enjoy life." This is the material world. But śāstra says, "No, no, no. Don't do this. This is the hog's business.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...country which is desert practically, but they are luxurious, they are rich. Wife. But they're devotees at the same time. In their country also, they have got many cows. They get sufficient milk. And from that milk, they prepare so many things, milk, ghee and then they get channa. So they know how to prepare so many things from channa, laddus. (break)
Indian devotee (1): Laḍḍu. (break)
Jayapataka: They're maintaining the rules.
Prabhupāda: Yes. All over India, they're not so fallen as the kṣatriyas and brāhmaṇas.
Prabhupāda: Kanpur, which is desert practically, but they're luxurious, they're rich, why... But they're devotees at the same time. In their country (indistinct), they have got many cows. They get sufficient milk. And from that milk they prepare so many, milk, ghee, and that, they get channa. But they know how to prepare so many things, channa, dudh. (break) Yes.
Devotee (2): They are maintaining the rules.
Prabhupāda: All over India, they are not so fallen as the kṣatriyas and brāhmaṇas.
Prabhupāda: We can get everything, but the government will not allow. That is the difficulty. We can get grain, food...
Dr. Patel: I think grain they would allow. So many Christian institutions from America donate butter and ghee and rice and wheat to the Christian churches here. I think they would not object. We have not tried, perhaps.
Prabhupāda: No, we are trying. In Bengal they are trying.
Dr. Patel: Not here. They allow. How we are getting that Australian ghee all the time?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guru-kṛpā: "If one offer me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, fruit or water, I will accept it."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalam. He is asking very simple thing which everyone can offer. Just like a little leaf, patram, a little flower, puṣpam, a little fruit, and little liquid, either water or ghee, er, milk. So we offer that. We make different varieties with these ingredients, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26), and after Kṛṣṇa's eating, we take it. We are servant; we take the remnants of foodstuff left by Kṛṣṇa. We are neither vegetarian nor nonvegetarian. We are prasād-ian. We don't care for vegetable or not vegetable, because either you kill a cow or kill a vegetable, the sinful action is there. And according to nature's law, it is said that "The animals which has no hand, that is the food for the animals with hands." We are also animals with hands. We human being, we are also animal with hands, and they are animals—no hand but four legs. And there are animals which has no leg, that is vegetable. Apadāni catuṣ-padām. These animals which has no leg, they are food for the animals with four leg. Just like cow eats grass, the goat eats grass. So eating vegetable, there is no credit. Then the goats and the cows are more credit, have more credit, because they don't touch anything except vegetable. So we are not preaching to become goats and cows. No. We are preaching that you become servant of Kṛṣṇa. So whatever Kṛṣṇa eats, we eat. If Kṛṣṇa says that "Give me meat, give me eggs," so we shall offer Kṛṣṇa meat and eggs and we shall take it. So don't think that we are after vegetarian, nonvegetarian. No. That is not our philosophy. Because either you take vegetable or you take meat, you are killing. And you have to kill because otherwise you cannot live. That is nature's way.
Guru-kṛpā: Ghee is cheaper in New Zealand than in Australia.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, first of all arrange for selling.
Guru-kṛpā: I've already sent off the letter.
Prabhupāda: And you can disvertise(?) it from New Zealand or from Australia. There can be very peaceful condition of the whole world. Simply mismanaged by the rascal leaders. Otherwise, people can live very peacefully, eat sumptuously, save time, and there is no necessity of stopping the bare necessities of life. There is arrangement for eating, sleeping, sex life also. But not like fools and rascals. Like sane man.
Prabhupāda: From the very beginning I was asking to open restaurant and farm. Produce ghee in the farm and send to the restaurant, and make nice samosā, kachori preparation, and there will be no scarcity of money. And if you organize in this way, your whole country will be transferred into Kṛṣṇa conscious country. Whole country. So, what about your China program?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we went to New York to meet with Dhṛṣṭadyumna Mahārāja's father, and he was very helpful. We approached him in a frank way, and he immediately got the help of his office. He's the president of this Far East American Council.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee: Persons who are trying to eat less and less for spiritual life, they should...
Prabhupāda: No, less is not spiritual. Whatever you want to eat, your food must be.... Machine is going on by the order of God. It is not after your order. But if you violate laws, then it is disturbed. The more that the fire is disturbed, oblations to the fire—svāhā—that is eaten by God. (indistinct) Grains are offered, fruits are offered, in the fire yajña. It is through the fire, so as the part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, we have got little fire, we eat through that. In the fire you put tons of grains, tons of ghee—everything will be consumed. Similarly, if the fire is there, whatever you eat...
Hari-śauri: Whatever is there in the universal form is found in small quantity in the bodies that the living entities get.
Prabhupāda: They are small universe. There is word, cha ache brahmāṇḍe, ta ache i bandhe.(?) The arrangement what is there, universally, the same as in the smallest entity (indistinct).
Hari-śauri: So many completes coming from the whole.
Prabhupāda: Drop of water, the chemical composition is the same as big ocean. (airplane flying overhead) ...feet, they say.
Prabhupāda: What is that revolution? The ball is kicked here, and again goes and he kicks there. That's all. Revolution means Czar was kicking, and then Lenin began to kick. But his business is to be kicked. That's all. What is the advancement? One man was kicking, another man was kicking. That's all. That is revolution. Gojan mumukta(?) (indistinct). If you have got strength, then the government is yours. That's all. But those who are resident, they are suffering. Just like this Korea, Vietnam, sometimes Communist government, sometimes capitalist government. The sufferer is the ordinary man. Revolution means one part takes the power, another man is killed. But the general people, they're suffering, this way that way. They do not think who will rule. Just like in India, they are the British rule, now it is Congress rule. But the result is in British rule the ghee was selling at one rupee per kilo, now it is twenty-five rupees. The dhotī was selling one rupee six anna, now it is twenty-five rupees. So what the public has gained? Nothing.
Prabhupāda: No. In America, Kṛṣṇa consciousness has developed. What you have done? Why don't you say?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But our forefathers have done, and just see the mess we are in because of it.
Prabhupāda: Forefathers ate ghee, so lick up your hand. My forefathers ate ghee.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All you have is dalda now,
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Why dalda? Your forefathers had ghee. You enjoy it now.
Rāmeśvara: Actually, if we introduce ghee in America, we'll be very famous. That will make us very popular.
Prabhupāda: Yes, do it. You have got enough milk, you can do it.
Prabhupāda: (laughter) Huh? That he can send to us. Milk is so nice that it cannot be wasted, even a drop. First of all you get milk, that is the Indian system. So there is a big milk pan, and as soon as the milk is drawn it is put into the pan. The pan is in the fire. So as much as you like, drink milk, children, elderly persons. Then at night, when there is no demand for milk, it is converted into yogurt, not wasted. Whatever balance milk is there is converted into yogurt. Then in daytime also you take yogurt, as much as you like. If it is not all consumed, then it is stored in a pot. Then when that pot is enough stored, then you churn it. Churn it, and you get butter and Buttermilk. So again you take buttermilk with cāpāṭi and everything, not a single drop is lost. Then the butter, you melt it, convert into ghee and store it, it will stay for years. So not a drop of milk can be wasted. And this butter, because in the village they are eating so much milk products, they do not require butter or ghee. Maybe little, so that is stored. They go to the city. The city men they require, especially. Ghee is very important thing in the city. So they purchase. So in exchange of that money, whatever they want, they purchase in the city and come back. But the simply maintaining the cows, their economic problem is solved. Simply maintaining the cows. And to maintain cow there is no difficulty. The boys.... Just like Kṛṣṇa, as boy, was taking the cows, the calves, in the fields. They are grazing here and there, and coming back they're giving milk. Only one attendant required to take them into the pasturing ground and bring them back home. You don't require to give them food even. Simply take care, they give milk, and with milk you make so many preparations.
Prabhupāda: No. We can.... From milk, we can make so many nice foods. You take ghee, and from ghee, from grains, from fruits, you make so many varieties. Just like dahl, pulses, soak it in the water and then fry in the ghee and put masalā, and it is so nice salty preparation, dahl mutta. Then make samosā. You introduce these things, dahl mut(?), samosā, jalebīs, they will like. They have never tasted all these. Sandeśa, rasagullā, pantoa,(?) so many varieties from milk, only milk.
Mādhavānanda: In the restaurant in New York, many, many respectable people come, and they come once and they come back again and again and again.
Prabhupāda: Panwanna(?), puṣpānna, kijeranna(?), so many things. What is that? If you kill the cow you get the meat only one time. But if you allow the cow to live and take milk, and from milk you can make hundreds and thousands of preparations. That is enjoyment, real enjoyment. In Delhi, there are shops, very respectable shops. One side salt, and one side sweet. But the salt side or sweet side, they're all based on ghee. This preparation, dahibarā, so nice. Combination of grain and yogurt. So introduce this. They do not know. It is a new type of civilization we are trying to introduce for the benefit of the human society. They do not know it. Crude civilization. Primitive. Kill an animal and eat. And when you are civilized, you are supposed to know so many things; why should you kill the animal? You utilize the animal. This milk is taking the blood without killing.
Makhanlāl: (laughter) These are some pictures of our farm project, St. Louis farm project.
Prabhupāda: Yes, increase farm projects. It is very nice project. Self-dependent. Very good. Kṛṣṇa personally, He lived in village, farm, cows, calves, land, Govardhana Hill. It is very nice. Land, in America, you have got so much land. Produce vegetable, grains, milk, eat sumptuously, no economic question. Prepare very nice product. And make some money by sending ghee in the city. Śrutakīrti will take charge. (laughter) There is sea also? No.
Makhanlāl: There's a small creek in one...
Prabhupāda: Not ocean.
Makhanlāl: Not ocean, no.
Hari-śauri: That's just the hills in the background.
Prabhupāda: I think this farm organization will not be liked by the government.
Hari-śauri: Control wheat?
Prabhupāda: Yes. They purchase from here and there all rejected wheat, and they supply it. There is no ghee, no milk, no proper food grain. Everything black market. Any necessary commodity you cannot have in the open market; you have to purchase in black market. Just like for the building purpose, cement. In your country you can purchase any amount of it. You cannot purchase. You have to purchase black market, and that cement also mixed with some... What is that? And unless you give some bribe, it is not possible.
Kīrtanānanda: There's plenty of milk and ghee.
Prabhupāda: This is human food. They do not know how to eat, the Westerners. (break)
Kīrtanānanda: ...ever eat these nice foods they give up so much sinful activity, very easily.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Kīrtanānanda: By just eating nice foods they can give up so much sinful activity.
Prabhupāda: Who has made them?
Kīrtanānanda: Different devotees, mother Lakhima, mother (indistinct).
Hari-śauri: Combined effort.
Kīrtanānanda: Tamāla has said that there's only one other place in the US now that has Vedic cooking. (break)
Prabhupāda: Facility to get enough ghee.
Prabhupāda: You can supply them ghee.
Kīrtanānanda: Yes, we can do that.
Prabhupāda: You grow podina? Podina? Mint? Mint?
Kīrtanānanda: Mint? Yes.
Prabhupāda: Chutney.
Prabhupāda: Vegetables, ghee, milk, wheat, then what do you want more?
Kīrtanānanda: The wheat is just about ready for harvest.
Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say we can grow all these things and eat very nicely. Where is economic problem? Yajñād bhavati parjanyo parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ. (break)
Kīrtanānanda: It's full of cow stool and urine.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā, for fertilizer?
Kīrtanānanda: Yes, fertilizer. Nothing is wasted.
Prabhupāda: You can make gas also.
Kulaśekhara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if you take milk in other forms, like if you eat cheese, if you take curd or cheese, is it the same as drinking milk or ... ?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Any milk preparation. And if you have got enough milk, then keep it as ghee and open restaurant in the city. Give them nice samosā, kachorī. So in exchange you get money, you require little money, so that money will help you. Actually, in India, before these British, the poorer class of men, they were simply keeping, say, a dozen of cows, and that was their means of livelihood, that's all. From the milk they'll eat the, that, little milk, then yogurt, then..., what is called? It is another milk?
Devotees: Casein? Curd? Cheese?
Visakha: Buttermilk.
Prabhupāda: Buttermilk, yes, and in this way after drinking and eating so many things, whatever balance is there, churn it and they get ghee, and that ghee is kept in stock. On the market day, they go to the city and sell it. You'll find in Vṛndāvana, so many cultivators, they have brought ghee. So the inhabitants of the city, town, they require ghee, they purchase, and with that money they get some necessities, just like some oil or some spices, salt, like this, which is not available.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Yes. We can analyze the chemical structure and make...
Prabhupāda: No, the flower has taken directly, without any chemical addition. You do that. It is a fact the flavor is there within the earth, you take the flavor, extract the flavor. Not only this flavor, there are different flavors, all, everything there. There are so many flowers coming out. Huh? Sarva-kāma dugha-mahī. Mahī means earth. Everything's coming out from the earth. But not in your attempt. It is Kṛṣṇa's attempt that He can take out. Out of so many different flavors, everything is there within the earth, but Kṛṣṇa's manipulation takes the different colors, different flavors, different bodies, everything. That is Kṛṣṇa's manipulation. Mayādhyakṣeṇa (BG 9.10). Just like in our kitchen we have got the ingredients, rice, dahl, āṭṭā, ghee. But the expert can prepare hundreds of preparations. That expert is Kṛṣṇa. And if one is not expert, even the ingredients are there, he'll spoil everything. He'll mix the āṭṭā with water then put ghee and then put rice. (laughter) This is the... We have to become expert. If you become expert, then you'll do very nice purī, dahl, rice, ah... There are so many varieties. You enjoy. And if you are not expert, you'll spoil. So Kṛṣṇa is expert and Kṛṣṇa bhakta is expert because he takes lessons from Kṛṣṇa. So for them this is not mithyā. Rascals who spoil it, they think it is mithyā. He could not do anything. He mix with a conglomeration, and because he could not get any result, he said mithyā, disappointment. And one who knows, he knows how to utilize it. Just like we are utilizing the cows in so many nice preparations, and these rascals killing them. Finished.
Hari-śauri: They use flesh for curing diseases?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Animal-killing is only allowed when it is absolutely necessary, for medicine. Suppose by killing one animal hundreds of lives are saved, so that is allowed. One preparation is chagalaka-ghṛta. It is prepared... A live goat is put into the ghee with other ingredients, and that is a good medicine for tisis(?).
Hari-śauri: For?
Prabhupāda: Tisis(?) Tuberculosis.
Hari-śauri: Oh.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They actually cook the live goat in the ghee? Maybe we should withhold this science from the Western world for a while.
Prabhupāda: No, you are expert already. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: And when you fry luci, all the other tenants will come "What you are cooking?" This is practical because we opened..., my Guru Mahārāja opened a branch in Burma in an apartment. So that Gaurāṅga who was my servant in family life, he was there. He said like this, that "When I fry puri, the ghee smell is there, so many people will come from other apartments, (whispers) "Oh, what you are cooking? What you are cooking?" And the naphi, they relish it in feast. So it is a question of taste.
Mr. Deyani: Yes, he said that. Now he brought one more point, he says all the world over people have forgotten. Every morning we do..., he says yajña has many meanings, but he says yajña means to burn the cow ghee in the fire, and this fumigation, he gives here certain purifies the atmosphere and thus, if you do it at the right time in the morning, when the sun—there is some time which he gives—and in the evening, he says you will yourself see that your mind changes, your praṇa, it affect your praṇa, and then it affects your mind, and if you are—anyway, you will try to understand yourself by yourself. Once you do, he says it's just a physical aid, it is not any spiritual thing, but this is a physical aid. And that is what our, there are, many Americans are doing there this program. And he gives a very nice scientific background of that thing, which convinces me that what we Hindus, what our Vedic literature, what they have said, it has some scientific meaning behind it, why we did it.
Prabhupāda: But thing is, accepting his statement, first of all, where is ghee?
Mr. Deyani: Well, in this country you can get.
Prabhupāda: In this country, but there are places there is no ghee. Then how you will perform? Your first proposition is ghee, but where is ghee? It is all dalda. Now how you can perform yajña? I am talking as a matter of argument. If ghee is not available, then how yajña will be performed?
Mr. Deyani: That is actually the question when I first met him. (laughter) I asked him, really, I told him...
Prabhupāda: Then his proposal is failure.
Prabhupāda: They should be trained up. Therefore Vedic civilization is training. Some section of the people, they should be very intellectuals, brain, just like to maintain this body we require first of all the brain. If the brain is not order, then other parts, they may be there, but they are also useless. So similarly, in the society, some intellectuals should be maintained. They are called brāhmaṇas, and some of the brāhmaṇas, they are sannyāsīs. They are simply meant for giving good instruction. They should personally become very good and intellectual, and they should give instruction to other people what is the value of life, how to live. This is one section. They should be free from the anxiety of maintaining themselves. The society should treat them as children and give them all necessities, bare necessities, not they are meant for living very luxuriously. No. Simple living. Then the next class, kṣatriyas, the politicians, administrators, they are also required to give protection to the people from injury. Kṣatriya, kṣat means injury, and trāyate, "one who saves people from injury." It is kṣatriya's duty. So kṣatriya should protect all the living entities, including the animals. They are also subjects. So the first, intellectual brāhmaṇas, then kṣatriya. Then vaiśyas, their business is to produce food. Food production you can do by agriculture, kṛṣi, and by giving protection to the cows. If you get sufficient food grains, like rice, wheat, pulses, and sufficient milk—from milk you get yogurt, butter, ghee—then your all food problem is solved. You must eat. You must eat, you must live properly.
Hari-śauri: Farina and ghee, it's cooked.
Harikeśa: Clarified butter.
Prabhupāda: Most of our preparations are made from milk products. Therefore we are so much fond of cow protection. It gives the basic principle of palatable foodstuff. But these people, they do not know. They simply cut the throat of the cow and boil it and with salt. (laughter) They do not know how to keep the cow and take milk from it and prepare hundreds and thousands of nice preparations. That is a lack of civilization. Just like all the, what is called, aborigines, they find an animal, kill it and eat. They do not how to utilize the animals. Most aboriginal. We keep cows, we take milk, and from milk we make yogurt, we make ghee, and from ghee we prepare so many things.
Prabhupāda: There will be great catastrophe. The unemployment will increase, and people will be very dissatisfied with the.... Especially the black. They will create havoc. This is artificial. They are increasing the production of tire tube and lid. So who will purchase? Nobody lives in the tire tube. Therefore unemployment. So therefore reduce production. You cannot go on increasing. You very much trade this tire tube and so many artificial.... It is very artificial civilization. If you produce.... (break) Here so far milk and food grains are concerned, whatever sumptuously you want to eat, eat. Balance you can keep stock. The milk can be converted into ghee, then keep stock, and the grains can be stocked. Whenever you like, you just grind the grains and have to eat, halava.
Prabhupāda: So many things are growing. Puffed rice, you simply make it hot, dry, take it away, and then take some of the peas, put very little ghee and masalā and some peas, fry it nicely. Then put little water and cover it. When it is soft, you can add with it little the green chilis.
Hari-śauri: These big ones?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not very much, but little.
Hari-śauri: These are not very hot, the big ones. The small ones are the hot ones, but we don't have any of those left.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Hari-śauri: Then mix them or keep them separate?
Prabhupāda: No, keep separate. They should be very soft. And the puffed rice hot. Then mix with little ghee and masalā. Then, I'll take little.
Prabhupāda: Popcorn, they fry it in ghee, hot ghee.
Hari-śauri: Not much though, just a little.
Prabhupāda: No, I've seen it. They do it. But that is not very digestive. If you make this sand, hot sand...
Bhagavān: It's light.
Prabhupāda: Very light. In the morning you can give them this puffed grains, then fruits and milk, very good breakfast. I mean to say all self-dependent. Yes. We should save time, as much for this purpose, for chanting, discussing grantha. Not for any personal so-called comforts. We can sit down anywhere on the grass here, and whatever available we make our food. This is the idea. Life will be sublime. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām. That is real business.
Prabhupāda: That's all. After heating, put little ghee, very little, and mix it with black pepper and salt.
Atreya Ṛṣi: We mix it or you mix it.
Prabhupāda: I can mix.
Atreya Ṛṣi: We'll bring it separately.
Prabhupāda: But this is good.
Nava-yauvana: That means it cost only six rupees per month for food.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In the hotel also they were charging six rupees. Means third-class hotel, not first class for cooking dāl, vegetables. Rice was, first-class rice, six rupees per month. Dāl, twelve annas for kg, flour, five annas for two and a half kgs. And from 1942, all of a sudden the price increased, artificially. Milk, two annas per kg. Now three rupees, four rupees. Ghee, first-class ghee, one rupee per kg. First-class ghee. (break) ...paying for the clerks thirty rupees per month. And head clerk, sixty rupees. Officers, hundred to two hundred rupees. High-court judges, four thousand rupees. High-court judges were highly paid.
Prabhupāda: No, it is simply nim leaf.
Hari-śauri: Nim leaf boiled in ghee.
Harikeśa: This is not the same.
Prabhupāda: It was not properly done. I asked Pālikā.
Harikeśa: It was very good that other time. It was completely merged in the ghee and it was very nice. I cooked it for three hours.
Prabhupāda: The water portion should be abolished. Then it will go not bad.
Prabhupāda: If the water portion remains, it will decompose.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Do you have to use ghee? Can't we use some oil?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, you can use vaseline. Ghee is better, but vaseline you can use. Vaseline is available, I think you are not manufacturing vaseline?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, Iran.
Prabhupāda: Because vaseline is one of the by-products of petrol.
Dr. Patel: Milk and honey. Five ingredients, gomūtra is one of the five things. Honey, milk...
Prabhupāda: No, that is pañca-amṛta. Pañca-gavya a little different. Gobara, urine, milk, yogurt, and ghee. This is pañca-gavya, pertaining to the cow. And that honey, that is pañca-amṛta.
Dr. Patel: Sir, I have a question. Can I ask you?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32). In the Kali-yuga, the other yajñas are not possible. First of all, there is no yājñika-brāhmaṇa and paraphernalia, so many things. Perhaps if we perform yajña and pour ghee on it, immediately government arrest. Ghee can be produced immense. I have studied. Immensely, you can produce, by keeping cows. Kṛṣṇa has recommended, go-rakṣya. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. The go-rakṣya is essential. It is not that animal slaughter stopping, no. Kṛṣṇa could have said paśu-rakṣya. No, Kṛṣṇa has not said. Go-rakṣya. Those who are animal eaters, they can indulge in eating other insignificant animals.
Dr. Patel: I think go-rakṣya must be the backbone of the economy.
Prabhupāda: These Europeans, Americans.
Dr. Patel: Really?
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Don't eat milk." Do they not? And they cannot drink also. In Bengal there is a proverb, kule pete ghiya(?) (indistinct). If you supply preparation made of ghee to the dog, he cannot digest it.
Guest: (quotes proverb in Bengali)
Prabhupāda: Ha! They cannot digest factually. They get, what is called? That disease?
Harikeśa: Jaundice.
Prabhupāda: Jaundice. They cannot eat much milk product.
Prabhupāda: Take care of the cows, and?
Maṇihāra: It says, "This is ISKCON's first venture in protecting cows from going to slaughterhouses. Over four hundred cows give twelve hundred litres of milk daily, providing natural, healthy products like butter, ghee, etc. And especially milk sweets like gulabjamon, rasagullā, etc."
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Pradyumna: Just the names of those...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Enclose this quote.
Prabhupāda: Pickle, yes. Khicuḍi with potato and other vegetables, and ghee should be given separately as I... Make it simplified. If I go to rest at two o'clock, then it will be possible to start. So see that it is quickly done. We shall go and come back by half past twelve. In Europe especially, if they do not change their mode of living, reject spiritual life, then gradually the whole situation will be dangerous. Then there will be no water supply.
Prabhupāda: Six plates. Six plates, eight puris means forty-eight puris. Forty-eight puris, Viśvambhara calculated the āṭā and ghee.
Akṣayānanda: Yes, you already made that estimate.
Prabhupāda: Two rupees. Āṭā and ghee, two rupees. Then other preparation, another two rupees.
Akṣayānanda: He'll tell me everything Prabhupāda. No need to...
Prabhupāda: No, no, why don't you hear? You are hearing now. Four rupees to prepare all the plates. Four rupees, say five rupees. So five rupees, monthly 150 rupees. So we are offering four times. So 150 rupees four times.
Prabhupāda: That's all... But what is that great? What is God you do not know. We know. Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). There is no more greater principle than Me. That is great. How you are great? Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). "I am the origin of all the demigods." Next how you are great? Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). This is their ignorance. They have simply heard God is great, but how He is great, that they do not know. Here is the... God is personally speaking, "Yes, I am great in this way." Ahaṁ sarvasya. Vedānta says janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). That is greatness. The original source of everything. So we are presenting God, "Here is God." Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ (SB 1.3.28). There are other incarnations, but kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. That's a fact. So try to present the real fact. It will be effective. If there is real reality, just like first class pure ghee... If one tastes, he'll hanker after. Without any advertisement, by the taste of the ghee, it will go on. Is it not? If you put little pure ghee on the rice, it will be so tasteful, that he'll want it again.
Indian man: It is kneaded in the flour and little ghee and the paraṭā will be... It is wonderful for your joints. And this arthritis, it is wonderful. I got it about a year back and put in my garden because my wife needed and we were getting it from somebody else's garden. So I told my gardener, "Why don't you put it in our own...? We have plenty of land."
Prabhupāda: It doesn't require to taken care of very much. It grows automatically.
Indian man: It's growth is very good. And plenty of it. If your Divine Grace gets any benefit from it, then it can be planted in each temple on one side. No problem. And then on your visits, the place where you will use.
Prabhupāda: Then we can, in Vṛndāvana.
Devotee: Prabhupāda, this is some honey, this is from my wife. And this is from Viśakha, Yadubara's wife from Los Angeles. She asked us to... And this is from all the devotees in San Diego, this is ghee.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Guest: Cow ghee?
Devotee: Yes. They heard that you were in need of some ghee, so they have... (indistinct) (pause)
Prabhupāda: That's all right. (Hindi conversation) (break)
Guest: (Hindi) ...doctor, high specialist. He's in charge of high department. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...ācari prabhu jīveri śikāimu, you cannot teach others if you are not fixed also. Otherwise it will be useless. It is useless, āpani ācari prabhu jīveri śikāimu. If you are fixed up in principles, then you can teach others that principle. That will be effective. If you smoke, and if you tell others that "Don't smoke," that is useless. That is useless. (break) ...first of all give up this habits, bad habits then you can teach, it will be effective.
Prabhupāda: There will be proper rainfall. And if there is proper rainfall, then you get sufficient food grains, not only food grains, other things also. Sarva-dughā mahī, sarva-kāma-dughā mahī. From the earth you can get all the necessities of life. Actually you are getting food grains, minerals, trees, fruits, flowers, everything from the earth. Sarva-dughā, sarva-kāma-dughā mahī. This mahī, when it is soaked with proper rains, it becomes fertile. Therefore we have to depend on the rainfall. There is one verse in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). Parjanya means rainfall. Rainfall means it is supplying all the necessities of life. And this rainfall will be easy when there is yajña. And nobody is performing yajña; therefore nowadays rainfall is scarcity. In Europe recently I have seen, there is no rainfall, whole Europe. It is on the verge of drying everything. So this punishment will come in this Kali-yuga. There will be no rainfall, and there will be not sufficient food supply, and the government will simply levy taxes on different pleas and people will be so much embarrassed that they will give up their hearth and home and flee away to the forest. It is stated. So therefore you must perform yajña. And that is very easy in this age. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32). You cannot perform the former yajñas by sacrifice tons of ghee and grains because you have no sufficient food grains even. But still, if you chant this saṅkīrtana, that is yajña.
Harikeśa: The whole field.
Prabhupāda: Yes. People have lost the program. These rascals they draw all these men to manufacture Goodyear tire and eat store (?). This is going on. Modern man, they draw all these man, "Come on, I shall pay you 20 rupees daily. Prepare Goodyear tire, and eat store. Take paper. Purchase store. That's all. This is going on. What brain they will have? Twenty rupees they get and they spend ten rupees for wine, and five rupees for cigarette, and fooding, say five rupees. No ghee, no milk. Soul killing civilization. And again this soul killing civilization. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Hm, what you wanted to say?
Devotee: This, your Dr. Ghosh, where he is staying...
Prabhupāda: Mm.
Devotee: We were there this afternoon for a program, and all their land is so green, and they are growing vegetables by a patch no bigger than this mattress that you are sitting. They are working one, planting, then growing another. Just a small piece, they're planting.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: For spiritual enlightenment. That's nice.
Guest (5): Yes. And practically since many, many years our camp is considered as one of the best from all point of view. Hygienic arrangements, food quality. We don't use dalda or anything. We have the pure ghee. There are people who give with heart.
Prabhupāda: Suppose if you give us one camp, so how many men we can provide there?
Guest (5): At least 50 to 100 people we can accommodate.
Prabhupāda: No.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: And they are giving... Practically our temple is going on by the contribution of the Indians. They are giving goods. Rice, dāl, and ghee and our... No scarcity.
CID Chief: The Lord Kṛṣṇa is the Deity(?) which is close to most of the Indians. It's a common...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sometimes they ask that "What is your position, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, in India?" And in India everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Everyone.
CID Chief: Because if you read from beginning, like the childhood, all His childhood plays and mischiefs and this from the birth, then childhood.
Prabhupāda: Every house. Even there are Muhammadan house, they observe Janmāṣṭamī. I know that. One professor in Allahabad, Kavi or something like... I went to his place. He's a great devotee of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: This, falsely to become proud: "We... We have done." What I am at the present? That is to be taken, not that... Now in Bengal... "Fourteen generations before my father took ghee, and I have got a smell." (laughs) What is that? Whether you are eating ghee or not, that is talk, not that "Fourteen generations before my father and forefathers ate ghee, and I have got the smell here." (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Our family was taking two kilos and a half milk daily. Two annas per kilo. Ghee was selling, first-class ghee, in Calcutta... Just in front of our house there was a grocer shop. We were purchasing in that tin, but if some required, I would go immediately.
Dr. Patel: Fourteen rupees I think it was. Fourteen rupees is twenty kilos.
Prabhupāda: Less than that. Ten seers.
Dr. Patel: That is twenty kilos.
Trivikrama: Cow ghee?
Prabhupāda: No, buffalo's... Cow ghee we were taking with rice. But it was not available in quantity.
Prabhupāda: This cow's milk in Bengal, it is compulsory-before beginning your meal, little cow milk, er, ghee mixed with rice and smashed potato. It is very nice.
Dr. Patel: And then we do serve..., after that we take out a part of it for the cow back, and a little for...
Prabhupāda: Ālu bharte bharta. (?) In Bengal it is called ālu bharte bharta. If you don't have anything, just have smashed potato, little ghee and rice. That's it. It is sufficient, very nutritious. And at last, little milk. Very nutritious.
Prabhupāda: Now Kīrtanānanda has sent so nice sweets.
Hari-śauri: And ghee.
Prabhupāda: You have given something all other devotees?
Hari-śauri: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Give him some.
Hari-śauri: Pālikā hid them somewhere. I don't know where they are. Pālikā hid them away so no one would take them. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: All right then. Preparing first class.
Hari-śauri: Kulādri has a box.
Prabhupāda: First class. And they have got enough milk. When I went there, all nice milk preparation. Ghee, sweet rice, these sweets. Ample. All variety. And they have ghee. Then prepare kachori, samosa. Such nice thing. And how friendly the cows. Just like family members. And they're giving more economically. That's practical. More milk.
Hari-śauri: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Then I can take two pills in the morning. That will help. This nim, tickly, and bara is very good. But you people say that... (laughs)
Hari-śauri: The ghee's not.
Prabhupāda: Ghee's not good, that I can understand. But without little ghee, we cannot eat at all.
Hari-śauri: There's no harm for a small amount. There's not much harm for...
Prabhupāda: We have to take very little.
Hari-śauri: Wouldn't it be better just to take some fresh leaf?
Prabhupāda: Fresh leaf, how can I chew it?
Hari-śauri: Too bitter. Hm. I'll get some dried. I can dry some on the roof tomorrow.
Prabhupāda: Not dry. You have to take fresh leaf.
Prabhupāda: I am simply surprised when I compare British days and nowadays. My practical experience—one of my maternal uncles, he's a very big, rich man. He was; he is not existing. So he was doing business, rice exporting. So in Calcutta, Chetra side, he had big, big godown full of rice. Not only he, other merchants also. But now they are empty. Similarly, from Bombay the oil seeds are being exported.
Dr. Patel: Yes. Last year they exported so much of this groundnut. Groundnut oil is costlier than ghee. (talks on for few minutes)
Prabhupāda: So we can go?
Rāmeśvara: Per month?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That three hundred rupees is equal to nine thousand rupees now. Now, a middle class man, who has got nine thousand rupees' income? Maybe one thousand, two thousand... (break) ...same thing, thirty times. The same ghee is selling not less than twenty-five, up to thirty. Thirty times. Take anything, rice, dahl, wheat, two annas per seer. And now they charge two rupees, three rupees per kilo. So from two annas to two rupees, sixteen times more.
Prabhupāda: This is our men? Rāmeśvara: Yes. This is at an ārati. You can see the donations that people have put on the tray. But it makes it look very strange, this picture with the lighting. They have deliberately selected this. Prabhupāda: Very big article. Rāmeśvara: Yes. I have just been reading it. Hari-śauri: What newspaper is that? Rāmeśvara: It's a very small-time newspaper called the Soho Weekly News. Prabhupāda: And bad propaganda is going on.
Prabhupāda: The reason is: their real business they have forgotten. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are trying to be happy by adjusting this external energy. They do not know what is happiness, what for happiness is meant for, nothing, simply manufacturing ideas which is external. Durāśayā. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ.
Hari-śauri: Do you want the peanuts roasted in ghee or just dry roasting?
Prabhupāda: No, no, they are... They... It is roasted.
Hari-śauri: They didn't get already roasted.
Gargamuni: Dry roasted.
Hari-śauri: They're roasted in the shells.
Prabhupāda: Roasted in the shells?
Hari-śauri: I think that's how they do it.
Prabhupāda: Then it is all right.
Prabhupāda: And ghee?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, because...
Prabhupāda: Ghee you take from New Vrindaban?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. They don't have sufficient to give. The trouble with ghee... It is not a trouble, but one thing is this, that when you make ghee it only uses four or five percent of the milk. Then the balance of the milk becomes skim milk. So what we want to do is... There's a machine that can be purchased for making the skim milk into powdered milk. With that powdered milk we can send it to India. Otherwise there's so much waste of the leftover.
Prabhupāda: You can send the powdered milk?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: There's good demand for powdered milk.
Prabhupāda: Now in Hyderabad we have got the farm. We can produce ghee and grains and make restaurant.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Hyderabad.
Prabhupāda: City.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Especially the location of our temple is so first class.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Cooking means if you have no appetite, it will create appetite. That is cooking, not that simply some ghee and masalā and cook it. No. It is a great art.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When you went to Hyderabad did you stay with Mr. Pithi again?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Hari-śauri: No, we were out at the farm.
Prabhupāda: No, we were staying, but he supplied his car. But he came to airport.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). (sound of thunder and rain) This time rainfall is very beneficial for crops. This is the way of living. You perform yajña, there will be rain. And as soon as the ground is moist, you can produce anything, whatever you want. Sarva-kāma-dughā mahī. From the field, you can get all your necessities of life. The first necessity is the food grain. So food grain you can eat, and the rejected grass portion, you give to the cows. So both the animal and the man get sufficient food. And the cows will give you nice milk, and from milk you can get butter, ghee, yogurt, so many nice sweetmeat. And there is ghee, and here is food grain, then you make kacuri, puri, samosā. Then sufficient foodstuff, nice, palatable, nutritious. First necessity is āhāra. You get sufficient āhāra. Then make little cottage for shelter.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, you maintain cows and get ghee.
Bali-mardana: When we were flying over Australia when you first came there, you pointed down and you said...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Pūrṇam idam (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation). Everything is complete by the arrangement of Kṛṣṇa. Simply we mismanage. That's all. I do not know why people are engaged with politics, fighting, and so on, so on. By Kṛṣṇa's grace everything is complete. You eat sufficiently, you be strong and keep your health good and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is the arrangement. These rascals, they have created civilization, simply animosity-fighting, politics. This is Kali-yuga. Kali means simply unnecessarily fights. There is no need of fighting, but they'll create a situation, fighting. That's all. This is Kali-yuga, unnecessarily. Why politics? Why so much discussion, barking in the United Nations? Kṛṣṇa has given the formula. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). In America, Australia, Africa, they can produce so much grain that ten times of the population as it is now can be maintained. Similarly, Australia can produce ghee.
Hari-śauri: I think all the Australian devotees brought some ghee for you.
Bali-mardana: Australia, all the devotees have brought you ghee. They are engaged in distributing your books all day long.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Bali-mardana: And this is powdered milk. Full-cream powdered milk.
Devotee (1): And honey with the hive in it.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa has given so much nice thing in Australia, and they are doing killing business? Just see how much fallen.
Prabhupāda: This is their civilization. They have got so nice thing to eat, but they are making business by killing. How much insane. Killing is done by the uncivilized men when they are hungry. But when there are so many things to eat, why they should kill? And that is not for themselves. For others.
Hari-śauri: More ghee.
Prabhupāda: Huh? No, no, Australia can produce huge quantity of ghee. What is the price generally?
Bali-mardana: This is $3.90 for five pounds, no, two kgs.
Brahmānanda: Two pounds.
Bali-mardana: No, no, it's four pounds six ounces. Four and a half pounds. Less than one dollar per pound, little bit less.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Same as in America.
Prabhupāda: Per pound. What is the price here?
Devotee (4): About eighteen rupees.
Hari-śauri: They're getting that Holland ghee for about twelve rupees a kg.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's the same price here also, about a dollar a pound.
Hari-śauri: That's not pure ghee. That's dalda.
Prabhupāda: That is not pure ghee?
Hari-śauri: No. That's dalda.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Pure ghee is...
Prabhupāda: Pure ghee is not available. So at least we can import pure ghee for our own use. If possible, we can sell also. At least for our own centers, food distribution.
Prabhupāda: Oh, you designed?
Hari-śauri: No. That's not her. It's another one. We're just getting the ghee.
Brahmānanda: She has brought some ghee.
Prabhupāda: Oh. What is this, 3.92?
Bhāgavata: Three dollars, ninety two cents, Australian money, for four pounds of ghee. Seven cans.
Prabhupāda: So Australian dollar, about ten rupees?
Bali-mardana: No, it is less. Now, devalued.
Jayatīrtha: Same as an American dollar now.
Bali-mardana: One dollar, eight. One dollar eight, US. Eight cents.
Prabhupāda: So about ten rupees, Indian ten rupees.
Bhāgavata: Twenty rupees per kg. If you tried to buy some ghee in India now, butter ghee, you'd have to pay about twenty-five rupees.
Bali-mardana: But this... The export... The Australian ghee in Australia is cheaper. This is export quality, is much higher quality. Higher...
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Bali-mardana: ...price.
Prabhupāda: Higher.
Bali-mardana: But now they are going to cut down the amount of ghee they make, because not many countries are buying ghee.
Prabhupāda: India is not buying?
Bali-mardana: Not so much.
Prabhupāda: They have learned to eat meat. Meat-eaters, they don't like ghee. Meat-eaters, they say (Hindi). (laughter) "A dog cannot digest ghee." Because they are meat-eaters.
Bhāgavata: Here's some more ghee.
Bali-mardana: These are all the book distributors. They have all come for your darśana with ghee. (laughter)
Bhāgavata: Soon I will not be able to see you.
Jayatīrtha: Also meat-eaters can't stand the smell of ghee cooking. No?
Prabhupāda: This ghee should be distributed in all our Indian centers.
Prabhupāda: So I am requesting you that from India you take books and distribute, and in exchange, half the money you send us in powdered milk and ghee.
Bali-mardana: Hm. Yes, I am prepared to order all the hardbound books from India. I've already ordered forty thousand Bhagavad-gītās and some four or five thousand Śrīmad-Bhāgavatams.
Prabhupāda: So make this arrangement.
Bali-mardana: There's no difficulty. They will be glad to export ghee.
Prabhupāda: So wherever we have got center in India, just like this Mahesh Pandit, if we supply them the chānā dāl and puri and halavā and nice, what is called, puṣpānna, his great-grandfather will come to eat.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow. They'll give up all their fish-eating, that whole community.
Prabhupāda: So from this milk powder we can make this chānā and dahi, and ghee is there.
Hari-śauri: Balarāma already knows about sending ghee.
Bali-mardana: Yes. I was just investigating it. They wanted some ghee in Hawaii.
Hari-śauri: They've already done two or three shipments to India before, so that's already established.
Bali-mardana: No problem.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: International cooperation.
Prabhupāda: For making devotees. It is not for business.
Prabhupāda: And in Hyderabad let us produce grains. The grains, milk, ghee—then we can maintain hundreds and thousands of devotees in any place. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take nice food.
Bali-mardana: I know that Australia has been shipping some cows to India for increasing milk production, so we can also investigate that. If we have a farm in Hyderabad...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: I have suggested already, already suggested that "Take milk powder and ghee from Australia, and every center distribute prasādam like anything." And in India at least, if you give them nice puri and chānā preparation and sweet preparation from milk, oh, they'll be so glad, both poor man and rich man. Yesterday I was eating kacuris. What is this kacuri? Made of ghee. Samosā, made of ghee; rasagullā, made of... Cow is so important. She can deliver so many nice preparations, sweet and salty. The whole world does not know how to eat. Like rākṣasas they are killing the poor animals. So we have to teach. This is an introduction of new type of civilization for making life successful.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So simply they were soaked with ghee. I got the rejected ones.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they were simply soaking.
Prabhupāda: Oh, they could not give.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some of them were all right.
Prabhupāda: It has to be done in high flame.
Prabhupāda: And at night little milk. Bas, complete food.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Good... He has some... He says they only have pure ghee there.
Prabhupāda: That's it. Very nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And I told him, "Cow's milk?" He said, "Yes, we can arrange." Everything he has. They have basmati rice. He says, "That's all we eat is basmati rice." Nice āṭā, and everything they say...
Prabhupāda: No, their climate is very nice. So you could accept it. If such things are available, now you'll get appetite and your health will increase.
Prabhupāda: It is luxurious. (break) ...the āṭā dough. So after it is cooked... They have got ghee. That ball soaked in ghee and the ḍāl, it is so nice when taken. That is called baṭī. Very quickly made. And after eating, with that ash the two or three utensils, mean the loṭā and the plate, they'll cleanse it very nice and walk away. And that food is sufficient for twenty-four hours. Within twenty-four hours he will not be hungry and feel very strong. The two things. And you can cook anywhere without any difficulty. In India, especially in village, you can get so many dried cow dung. So fuel is ready. The āṭā is packed up. And ghee in a pot. That's all. How simple life. Simply they'll sit down where there is water, and they'll take water. Then everything is arranged. No hotel. Or even there is no āṭā, they keep their own ghee, homemade, pure. Āṭā can be purchased anywhere in the village. There is no need of carrying āṭā. So this preparation for tourists... Tourists, Indian tourists, means going to some holy place. They have no other sightseeing, no program.
Prabhupāda: Ghee, first-class ghee, we were purchasing, one rupee, Vardwa(?) ghee. Now what is the price of ghee?
Indian man (1): Twenty-five.
Sita Ram Singh: Twenty rupees.
Indian man (1): Twenty, twenty-five. Between twenty and twenty-five, depending upon the place.
Prabhupāda: That means between twenty-five to thirty times, the price has increased. But income has not increased.
Jayapatākā: Oh, oh, no buffalo. Only cow's milk. And pure ghee there is six rupees per ser.
Prabhupāda: Those who are fish-eaters, they can eat sumptuously fish. There is no scarcity.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Make āṭā, kneading very nicely, just like you do for cāpāṭi, but make lump, round balls, around the fire. The same fire upon, one pot rice, one pot ḍāl. And down, these small, round āṭā. Just like you make for cāpāṭi. Go on. Then, after sometimes, you see, everything is prepared. Boil very nicely. Then these ball should be put into ghee, and the ḍāl should be chaunce. It will be first-class.
Prabhupāda: Then put in a ghee pot.
Upendra: Hot ghee or just ordinary ghee?
Prabhupāda: Melted.
Upendra: Melted ghee.
Prabhupāda: And dip it and take it out.
Prabhupāda: Then put it into ghee. That according to your... Put it long time or keep it or take it, as you can digest.
Upendra: It sounds... You may have instructed some devotees like this long time ago, because in San Francisco the devotees would sometimes make... Instead of making the cāpāṭi, they would make the balls and put it in the oven and then afterwards put butter on it and sometimes honey. They like honey. They dipped in honey. But it was the same thing, only put in the oven because we didn't have this cow dung chip. You may have instructed then. I never knew where they got this idea of putting the balls in the oven.
Prabhupāda: Oven is also good, but this is the best.
Prabhupāda: In Bengal a first eating hot rice with little ghee, salt and this lime flavor, it becomes so palatable, with smashed potato.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Smashed?
Prabhupāda: Potato. With little chili. Oh, you can eat half the quantity of rice immediately.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Was it very elaborate worship?
Prabhupāda: Not elaborate. But I'll decorate. I'll keep it in a place. Whatever I eat, I offered. I imitate, ghee lamp, ārati.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Putting to rest.
Prabhupāda: There was engagement in a small corner of the room.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even the village.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You'll find description in Bhāgavata. They were coming to congratulate Kṛṣṇa—so nice dress, so nice ornament, so nice foodstuff made of ghee, grains in our...
Śatadhanya: Sometimes the rich Marwari ladies, when they come to Māyāpur, once in a while they give some ornament to the Deity. They'll give one ring or one bracelet, gold.
Prabhupāda: That was always. They would offer some ornament to the Deity.
Prabhupāda: How they'll do? They have no asset. Engrossed with bogus things, cheating. That was my ambition. You have seen that Delhi shop? He was preparing first-class ghee, and all, hundred... So we are giving the real spiritual life. Automatically there is response. Customers will come. And (indistinct). And you can cheat somebody.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ah, crispy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And ghee and rābṛi and similarly other... In the plate, you see?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow!
Prabhupāda: And it was the custom of the Mulliks, daily prasādam, they should not eat all of them. Keep something as a balance—some neighborhood men, they will sell. This was...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Distribution of prasādam.
Prabhupāda: Distribution.
Prabhupāda: There is a street, Loiya Bazaar. So there is a Punjabi's shop. He makes all preparation, first-class ghee. So whenever I used to pass that area, at least fifty customers are waiting. Somebody wanting something, somebody wanting something. That gave me the impression that if you have goods genuine, customer will come. If your dealing is straightforward and the goods are nice. So, so many religious institution and missionary and other, they are all over the world. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, substantial, genuine, so why this will not be appreciated if we present properly? So I fought on that, and some way or other it is successful.
Prabhupāda: How they can? Scientist is rascal. That is proved. They are insisting that chemical can produce life. He's a rascal. They have gone to moon planet. That's a rascal. So what is the value of so-called scientist. Why should we give any importance? I'm not giving any importance. If you become scientist, that so much ghee and so much āṭā makes puri, and we can eat very nicely, all right, you are a scientist. But so much chemicals, make it life—prove that. The confectioner is also scientist. He knows very well how to do his business. A carpenter is also scientist. Here is some work nice done by the carpenter. I cannot do it. You may be a great scientist, but me? It is not possible for me to do a carpentry work. In this way it is going on. (Bengali) You have learned something, you can do it very nicely. But I cannot do it. For me it will be beating by the rod if I am given this work. I can translate, my work. So everyone is scientist, his own field of activities, to some extent. You cannot make everyone agree. That is not... Vox populi you cannot. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Supply of ghee from that dairy land would be very good.
Bhāgavatāśraya: We are also trying. We want to get some place near Delhi also.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These are linked up-Delhi, Vṛndāvana, Agra.
Bhāgavatāśraya: And Chandigarh. All those four centers.
Prabhupāda: Four corners.
Prabhupāda: Today I passed stool again before going to the temple. (pause) So many... Actually we enjoyed life in our childhood. Although we were not very nicely dressed and not very comfortable, the so-called comfortable. We could sleep anywhere. We did not require any nice dress or nice food. My mother used to prepare very nice food. We were glad in that way. Nice paraṭā, nice vegetable, ācāra, so many things she used to prepare. Always preparing some food. Puffed rice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She was cooking with ghee?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Our family with ghee. Some fried. That is used, oil.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fried portal.
Prabhupāda: Ghee and oil, both were used. Where is that happiness gone?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No one's happy nowadays.
Prabhupāda: Therefore there is struggle. Communist, this, that.
Prabhupāda: Call the (indistinct). And distribute.
(break) (Hindi or Bengali) (break)
Devotee (1): Tamāla Kṛṣṇa was saying to me earlier on, Prabhupāda, last night, that it is very pleasing to you possibly if we can supply some ghee...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Devotee (1): ...from Australia. So I'm thinking that this might be good to do with any money that we have.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: What we have decided is that food relief money which Australia has to give, it's going to send it in the form of ghee.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "People say they have never had such wonderful tasty food. If we can get money from Food Relief, it should be sent directly here."
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. First thing is you get ghee.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We are already giving him one fifth of what Hari-śauri sends. "The newspapers gave some account of an incident in Māyāpur. When asked to make a statement to the press, however, I do not know what happened. Please let the secretary inform us." I made a copy of Jayapatāka's report, and I made five copies of it, so I'll send him one. I did it for this reason.
Prabhupāda: That's good.
Prabhupāda: That was my prediction. As they're importing ghee, milk, similarly, brāhmaṇa also. Go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya. That's nice proposal.
Hari-śauri: Jaya. Yaśodānandana can do it very nicely. He did it very expertly in Fiji.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: And the Indians there were very, very appreciative that the Western, white brāhmaṇas had done the installation. They were telling Vāsudeva that "Now we must take instructions from these men. They know the pūjā."
Prabhupāda: That is good proposal.
| Page Title: | Ghee (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Rishab, Mayapur |
| Created: | 23 of May, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=140, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 140 |