Just like part and parcel of my body, hands and legs, they are serving the whole body, similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the supreme whole and we are His parts and parcels; therefore our duty is to serve Him. This is our constitutional position. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). We cannot become Kṛṣṇa. We are eternally Kṛṣṇa's servitors, part and parcel. This is real conclusion, qualitatively one. Just like this finger, you can call it body, but it is part and parcel of the body. Similarly, the part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, you may call "God," but he's not the Supreme God. Supreme God is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). So anāśinaḥ aprameyasya. Anāśinaḥ, it cannot be destroyed. Although it is very minute, aprameyasya, you cannot measure. You have no such measuring method, that you can measure the soul's breadth and..., length and breadth. In geometry, they finish it: "(A) Point has no length and breadth," but that is not the fact. A point has also length and breadth, but we cannot measure it. Aprameya. Similarly, there is length and breadth of the soul also. That is also mentioned in the Vedic literature. (aside:) Go little back side. It is said in the Purāṇas: keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca, jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ sa anantyāya kalpate (CC Madhya 19.140). The spirit soul is measured, first of all, divide the tip of your hair into one hundred parts, and then take one part again, and again divide it into one hundred parts. That portion is the measurement of the soul. Or, in other words, one ten-thousandth part of the tip of your hair. Now, we have no measuring instrument. Therefore, because we have no measuring instrument, although the soul is there, within this body, we cannot find it out. Although the soul and the Supersoul both are situated within the heart, and the heart is the center of all vitality, energy of this body... That is accepted. But we have no eyes to see the soul or the Supersoul because these material eyes are blunt, imperfect. You cannot see so many things. I cannot see even my eyelids, the nearest, and I cannot see which is far, far away, distant place.
Geometry
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
So we living entities, a small particle, very atomic small particle, one ten thousandth part of the top of the hair. It can simply be imagined. We are acintya. But we understand from Vedic literature what is the magnitude. It is not nirākāra. That is not a fact. It has got ākāra. But at our present position, material condition, we cannot measure it.
And because we cannot measure it... Just like in geometry, I have studied that point has no breadth and length. But actually there is breadth and length, but we cannot measure it. Similarly, the magnitude of the spirit soul is smaller than the point. We cannot measure it with our material measuring instruments. Anyway, even if you can, that is the magnitude.
So that small particle is described in the Bhagavad-gītā that na jāyate na mriyate. That small particle has also no birth and death. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). It is so powerful that that, because that small particle is within this body, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13), it is so healthy, so bright, moving so swiftly, acting so nicely, it has got so nice brain. And as soon as that small particle, atomic particle, is gone from this body, it is useless, a lump of matter.
Just like suppose I came to your country, United States of America. Oh, in my childhood I heard of it in school when I was reading geometry or something like, history or geography. I heard first of all. I did not come first of all. So hearing, hearing, when I understood, "Oh, that's a very wonderful country, and it is far away, and if I go there..." Similarly, as you think also about going to India, so first of all hearing. Not immediately seeing what is America or what is India. First of all hearing. So similarly, if we want to see God, then we have to hear. That is the process. Kṛṣṇa consciousness process is first with hearing. Śravaṇam. Śravaṇam means hearing.
Actually, God is not formless, but His form is different. Everything has form. Without form, there is nothing. Even the smallest atom, it has got form. Just like in geometry, they describe a point has no length, no breadth—because the point is so small that our instrument, measuring instrument, fails to measure what is its length or breadth. Therefore they give it up, that "It has no length and no breadth." But actually, it is not a fact. It has got length and breadth, but we have no instrument, we have no power to see.
So spirit soul is aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān. Spirit soul is the greater than the greatest and it is the smaller than the smallest. So we cannot see the smallest; we cannot see the greatest. Greater than the greatest. We can think of the greatest, the sky, the expansion of the sky—unlimited. But such skies, God is so great that innumerable, millions and billions of skies are within Him. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated, yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya... (Bs. 5.48). Therefore we have to refer to the authoritative scripture to get knowledge. As I told you the other day, that transcendental knowledge has to be acquired by aural reception. There is no other way. Just like, practical. The geometrical calculation is that the sun, the dimension of the sun is many, many hundred, thousands of..., greater than the earth. But we are seeing just like a disk.
Therefore we have to refer to the authoritative scripture to get knowledge. As I told you the other day, that transcendental knowledge has to be acquired by aural reception. There is no other way. Just like, practical. The geometrical calculation is that the sun, the dimension of the sun is many, many hundred, thousands of..., greater than the earth. But we are seeing just like a disk. So our sense is unable to see how great it is. It is a material thing. So how we can see the greatness of God with these material eyes? It is not possible. As you are understanding about the sun by authoritative statement of the geometry, that this sun globe is so great, so many hundred thousands greater than the... But you are seeing just like a disk. So how to get the knowledge of the sun? By receiving through the ear. That's all. Simply you have to receive the knowledge from the authority. It is not that practically you are experimenting by going to the sun, that it is so great and so long, so broad. That is not possible. You have to receive such knowledge through authority. That's all.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
There is magnitude. Just like we say geometrically, point has no length, no breadth. But actually that is not fact. It has got length and breadth, but we cannot measure it. Similarly, ātma, the soul has got length and breadth, but it is beyond our perception. Therefore we have to accept śruti. This is call so Vedas, Vedic injunction. Vedas said, "Here is the magnitude." That is Vedic understanding. Those who are followers of Vedas, they will not argue. Whatever is stated in the Vedas, they will accept. That is Vedic. There are many examples, I can give one example. Just like in the Vedas it is stated that the stool of animal is impure. And if one touches stool, he must take bathing. But in the Vedas it is also stated that the cow dung, which is also the stool of an animal, that is pure. And still, at least those who are Vedic followers, they take cow dung as pure. Anywhere impure, they smear with cow dung. And that is fact also. Cow dung is full of antiseptic properties. It has been analyzed. So the Vedas gives us injunction both ways that stool is impure but this stool is pure. And those who are followers of Vedas, they accept both. When they touch the stool of another animal they take bathing, but the stool of cow is taken to the Deity worship room.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
Because the less intelligent persons, they cannot think of personal God... Because they think that whenever there is question of personality, it is material body. They cannot find out the shape of the spirit soul. It is so small that from material eyes, by material instrument, you cannot find out the shape of the soul. Therefore they conclude that there is no shape. The same example: just geometrically, the definition of point is given, "point has no length, no breadth," because a point cannot be measured by any human instrument. But nothing can be without... Even the atom has got its measure. But because we have no power to measure, we set aside, dismiss: "Oh, there is no, nothing." So similarly, "Because we do not know what is spirit, and we think spirit is something just opposite to this matter, and matter we find manifestation, form, therefore spirit should be formless." That is their conclusion.
Sri Isopanisad Lectures
So this is explained here. This is Vedic mantra. This is the proof, Veda mantra. Why we are attached to Veda mantra? Veda mantra is the proof of everything. Whatever is said in the Vedas, that is fact. Unless you take some axiomatic truth in that way, you cannot make progress. Just like in geometry there are so many axiomatic truths, we have to accept it. "A point has no length, no breadth." "Things equal to the same thing are equal to one another." These are axiomatic truths. Similarly the Vedas, they are truth. We have to accept. Just like I've given example in my book: The conchshell is the bone of an animal. So Vedic injunction is if you touch the bone of an animal, immediately you become impure and you have to take your bath. But here is a bone which is used in the Deity room. But you cannot argue, "Oh, you said that bone is impure. As soon as you touch it, you become impure. And you are putting into the Deity room?" No argument. You have to accept it. This is Veda. You cannot argue. Similarly, spiritual master's order, you have to accept. There is no argument. In this way you can make progress.
Philosophy Discussions
Prabhupāda: But this is also experienced, that the three angles of a triangle make 180 degrees.
Śyāmasundara: But this truth exists independently, without any...
Prabhupāda: How independently? Not everyone knows what is a triangle, what is an angle, and what is a degree. When one comes to study geometry, then he understands. You cannot ask any child or any man who has no knowledge of geometry that these three angles of a triangle makes 180 degrees...
Śyāmasundara: But this truth exists, whether the man knows it or not. This truth exists, that three sides of a triangle equals 180 degrees.
Prabhupāda: But truth means it exists. Not this truth or that truth. Truth means that. That you may know or not know, but it exists. That is truth. So why is he making this example?
Śyāmasundara: Because there is also a truth that snow is white, they say snow is white, but that truth is not absolute because snow could be red also. But a triangle must always equal 180 degrees. That is an absolute truth, a necessary truth.
Prabhupāda: So any mathematical calculation is like that. Why this example? Mathematical means this: Two plus two equals four. That is always the truth.
Prabhupāda: So he's unfortunate. He could not find out Ajanta Cave; he found out some monkey's cave, that's all.
Karandhara: The Egyptians had geometric techniques that they're even..., they don't understand. They discount them...
Śyāmasundara: Prabhupāda said that they took that from the Indians, geometry.
Karandhara: But this one archaeologist wrote a book saying that this community in Egypt three thousand years ago was far superior, and no one accepted. No one believed him.
Śyāmasundara: Even in Mexico there are so many highly advanced...
Prabhupāda: Mexico is Indian civilization. They were showing to (indistinct). The Rāvaṇa had subway to Brazil. It can be seen from here where you can make subway...
Śyāmasundara: Yes, straight through.
Prabhupāda: Straight through. And therefore Rāvaṇa had so much gold; he took it from his brother's kingdom. Partly it was all one kingdom, and one part was being managed by his brother (indistinct) and one by himself. And in the Rāmāyaṇa it is said that Rāma-Lakṣmaṇa was taken to a subway to (indistinct) Rāvaṇa's place; that means Rāma and Lakṣmaṇa was taken to Brazil through subway. So now if you can make subways now—in Russia there is subway for five hundred miles—then why not five thousand miles? What is the difficulty? If it is possible to make subway up to five hundred, why not five thousand? It will require so many things.
Prabhupāda: Relative knowledge, because we cannot know beyond 180 degrees according to your geometrical calculation. But your calculation, everything is imperfect because you are imperfect. So because it is going on, for our purpose we take it as truth. That's all.
Śyāmasundara: It's only working in two planes, or two dimensions.
Prabhupāda: Just like this body. This body, I can say is false, but suppose somebody kills somebody, he cannot argue that it is a false thing. If it is killed, why the state should by so much anxious about it if it a false? No. Even it is temporary, even if it's false, but it has got temporary use. You cannot disturb that use.
Śyāmasundara: He says that propositions pertaining to metaphysical realities such as we have been talking about, like the soul, he says they are neither chronological, that is uninformative assertions, neither are they empirical propositions. So it is impossible to demonstrate either their validity or to verify them.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Śyāmasundara: Statements like "the soul," "I am the soul."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: We can neither say that is valid or invalid, neither we can say it is...
Prabhupāda: It is valid. It is not invalid, it is valid. You cannot understand it. Try to understand it. It is valid. "I am the soul," that's a valid proposition. How you can say invalid?
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: And that I have explained several times how the tree can be upwards root. That means it is reflection. Just like you stand on the riverside, the tree will be reflected on the river, on the water, as obverted. That means that is reflection. As soon as we say that this is a tree, the root of which is up, that means it is reflection. The Māyāvādī philosopher, they do not take account of the mathematical calculation, 380 degree. They are taking account of... 360 degree, the whole circle. They are taking account only 180 degree. And other 180 degree they're making void. But actually, the whole point is 360 degree. That is geomatrical calculation. If you simply know 180 degree, then the other 180 degree is unknown to you. So real life, real variety, real beauty, real knowledge, everything in reality is there in the spiritual world. It is only reflection. Therefore Bhāgavata explains that janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). The Supreme Absolute Truth is cognizant, abhijñaḥ. Cognizant and svarāṭ. Svarāṭ means independent. In this way, the explanation of Brahma-sūtra is given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Therefore Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is vaiṣṇavānāṁ priyam. Yad vaiṣṇavānāṁ priyam. Yasmin paramahaṁsam ekaṁ paraṁ jñānam jñeyate. The knowledge of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is to be understood by the paramahaṁsa, the highest perfected man, paramahaṁsa. It is not ordinary thing.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: In Geometry they say the point has no length nor breadth. But that is not fact. The point has length and breadth but you cannot measure it.
Dr. Weir: Ah, but the mathematician would say that that isn't the definition of a point is something that has no breadth or depth, but his purpose is working out his philosophy.
Mensa Member: (indistinct) he'd say something entirely different... absolute (indistinct) point.
Prabhupāda: But if you magnify the point you'll find there is...
Dr. Weir: But, coming back to...
Prabhupāda: It is a question of vision. With your present imperfect vision you do not see. When you take a magnifying glass you see, "Oh, there is length and breadth."
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Nothing else. Later on, little geometry, geography, mathematics. They're not meant for outside work. They're meant for as soon as they learn Sanskrit and English, they'll read these books.
Professor: I see. But to get the initiation, you have to be how many years old?
Prabhupāda: At least ten years.
Professor: Ten years.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ten to twelve years. That is the Vedic system. Twelve years old. He can be initiated.
Professor: Yes, yes. It is the same as the upanayana.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Upa means "near," nayanam, "to bring." Upanayana-saṁskāra. And the sacred thread means that he has been accepted by the spiritual master by bringing him near to spiritual consciousness.
Professor: So at the time of initiation, you not only give the Gāyatrī-mantra, but also the sacred thread.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Rādhā-vallabha: Well, for example, you may see that living beings are reproducing geometrically. One couple produces two children, those children each produce two children, so in that way it appears that the animal population should be increasing geometrically. And we can see that...
Prabhupāda: Who made that geometric?
Rādhā-vallabha: This is all just going on.
Prabhupāda: Ah, accident. (laughter) That's all.
Rādhā-vallabha: So their observation is that even though this geometric progression of species is going on, still, the same amount of living beings in each species is remaining. So the theory to support this is that within each species there must be variations. And within these variations, certain ones are more favorable than others for survival. So in due course of time the unfavorable variations die out.
Prabhupāda: That is already there. You are living more than the ants. That is already there.
Rādhā-vallabha: Their claim is that within a particular species the variations from birth to birth...
Prabhupāda: Can they increase the life period of an ant?
Rādhā-vallabha: Well, their claim is that this can happen.
Prabhupāda: "Can happen," that post-dated check again. This is the only shelter, post-dated check.
| Page Title: | Geometry |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 09 of May, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=11, Con=4, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 15 |