Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, this our process is chanting. It is very innocent. If you sit down and chant with us, you have no loss, no harm, but there is great gain. You see? By chanting, you gradually cleanse your heart and you can realize what is God. That is the greatest gain. Human life is meant for knowing God. The animals, they cannot know, although the bodily demands of the animal and the human being are the same. The animals, they sleep; man also sleeps. Animal, they eat; man also eats. The animal, they are also afraid of some enemy; man is also afraid of some enemy. The animals, they mate with the opposite sex, and men also do that. But what is the special significance of man? He can understand about God, but the animal cannot. Therefore if a man does not take to this understanding, he is no better than animal.
Gain (Conversations 1968 - 1975)
Expressions researched:
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Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: And this man is simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Do you mean to say he is more pious than that man who has made so much charity?" The śāstra says, "Yes. Yes." Why? That is also explained in the Bhāgavata. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That activity is considered to be the highest pious activity. The Bhāgavata does not say what kind of activity. "That activity which leads one to be a devotee of the Lord." That activity is not limited. Any activity that makes one progressing for realization of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is higher, the highest pious activity. That is the description. Just as military art is not a very pious activity, killing art. But because the killing art exhibited by Arjuna was leading him to this platform of satisfying Kṛṣṇa, so that became the highest pious activity. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro... We have to see whether by his activity he's gaining strength in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then it is highest. It doesn't matter whether it is photography or business or painting or cooking. It doesn't matter. Whether Kṛṣṇa is being satisfied by his activities?
Prabhupāda: The potter, the washerman, and the florist, the grain dealer, the silver or gold dealer, the banker, and... Everything. And the priest, and the warrior. So even in India still, there is no difficulty for draftboard. There is a class, kṣatriya; they will be very glad to be recruited as soldier. They are very strong. Jat. They are called jat, Gurkha. They don't like any other occupation. Fighting they like. The Sikhs. The Sikhs they are jat class, and the Gurkha, oh, the whole British Empire was extended with the help of the Sikhs and the Gurkhas. The Britishers took these Gurkhas and the Sikhs to Burma, to Messopotamia. They liquidated the Empire because they lost India. The British soldiers were not helping to keep up their Empire. These Indians soldiers. In the first war they gained for these Indian soldiers. They fought in France and everywhere very nicely. They are fighter class. They like to fight. And fighting is not going every day. So the arrangement was... Just like you have to fight for the state. So there is no monthly salary system.
Prabhupāda: He is going to be arrested by the police." And he has heard also that if somebody commits theft, he will be punished. So what do you want? Two things are required. Dekha śroṇa(?), seeing and hearing, for gaining knowledge. So he has got knowledge by seeing and hearing, but still... That means the heart is not clear. So this thing will be helpful for clearing the heart. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). Simply by legal obligation one cannot be purified. You may enact thousands of rules and regulation and laws. You cannot purify the heart of the people. Here is the process to purify the heart of the people. Therefore they should be taken advantage of. Simply by saying that "If you do this, then you'll be punished," nobody cares for that. Just like a child. The parents daily says, "My dear boy, don't do this. This is mischievous." But he does. Just like a dog, animal. Because the heart is not purified. The knowledge is not there. So this is the process for purifying the heart.
Prabhupāda: "The first-class yogi is he who is always..." He never says that first-class yogi is he who can show this jugglery. No. That is not recommended. Actually, and the yoga practice begins, samādhi. Real yoga practice is, after controlling the senses, the next stage is samādhi, concentrate the mind, focus the mind on Viṣṇu always. Always thinking of Viṣṇu, always seeing Viṣṇu within himself. That is yoga practice. But by such practice, automatically one gains such powerful things, and when one gains such powerful powers, they want to exhibit to get following for material achievements. But that is not the purpose of yoga. Yoga means to realize the Supreme Personality of Godhead and ultimately reach in His kingdom. That is the real purpose of yoga. (break) Yes?
Devotee: When they perform these miracles, (indistinct) that is with their material body? Their material body (indistinct)?
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. I like to tell to everyone that this human form of life is meant for reviving our original pure consciousness. That is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So we should not waste time because life is very short. And therefore, before we meet next death, we must finish this job of understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness rightly so that our human mission may be fulfilled. Yes. That is what I want to say. This is a very scientific and authorized means of purifying consciousness, and it is very easy also at the same time. It can be accepted without any loss, but the gain is very great. So people should take advantage of this movement and fulfill the mission of human form of life.
Interviewer: Thank you.
Prabhupāda: Thank you. (end)
Prabhupāda: Yes. So they were to go to see some other temple which is called Śeṣayī Temple. So although I was new man, I did not like to go to see the Śeṣayī Temple. I decided that "I shall hear." So at that time I was new, so all other, some of my important godbrothers, they were sitting like this, and I was sitting. At last, you see. But he knew that "This boy is new." Everyone has gone, all others except a few selected godbrothers. So he marked it that "This boy is interested to hear me." So hearing is very important. Hearing. Just like Arjuna heard from Kṛṣṇa. Come on. (People entering) (Break) ...because I was serious for hearing, and therefore now I am serious about kīrtanaṁ, means speaking, or preaching. Do you follow what I say? Yes. So one who is serious about hearing, he can become a future nice preacher. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ. Next stage is developed. That is development. If one has actually heard nicely, then he will speak nicely. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ smaraṇaṁ. Then consciousness will automatically develop because when you speak or you hear, unless your mind is concentrated, your consciousness is right, you cannot rightly hear or speak. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam. And then the development, "How I shall serve Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is so loving. Kṛṣṇa is so great," that automatically comes. Not silent, but activity. Pāda-sevanam means that activity begins immediately. In this way last item is sarvātma-snapanaṁ. Sarvātma, ātma-samarpaṇam, sarvātma-samarpaṇam. Bali Mahārāja just like. Giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving. Then, when Vamanadeva asked, "Now, Bali Mahārāja, you have lost everything. Still I have got another leg, another foot, to place." "Yes. There is one thing. It is my head. Come on." So everything is there, and Lord Vamanadeva: "Yes. You have now purchased Me. You have now purchased Me. So I shall remain your doorman here, standing always to give you protection." So Kṛṣṇa became purchased by him, and He remained his doorman. Just see His mercy. Dvārā. Dvārī. Dvāri means doorman. So by serving Kṛṣṇa, nobody is loser; he is gainer. He is gainer permanently, eternally. We do not know what is the value of that gain now. Because we are materially covered, we think service means just like service in this world.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you will feel relieved. So therefore the real thing is that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. We are artificially enjoying the stolen property. Therefore if you go on enjoying like that, then this frustration will come. But before coming to that frustration, if we return this property to Kṛṣṇa, then we become happy. So best thing is to return everything to Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And you will not be a loser. You will be gainer, just like Bali Mahārāja. Actually, if you think, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Nothing belongs to you. This is māyā. Kṛṣṇa's property you are thinking, "mine." Is this land of American belongs to you actually? It is stolen property. You have stolen from the Red Indians or from Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is, not you, everyone. Somebody is claiming, "This much my property," somebody is claiming, "This much my property," but this much or that much, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Man-manā bhava. "Just you become mad-bhakta. Just become My devotee." Mad-yājī: "If you want to worship, just worship Me." Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "If you want to offer obeisances, you just offer Me. And if you do like this, then without any doubt you'll come to Me." So this is very simple method. Always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. There is no loss, but the gain is very great. Suppose if I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Materially I do not commit any offense or undergo any loss, but if there is any gain, why not try it? There is no expenditure. (laughs) Everything has got some expenditure. So this mantra, Kṛṣṇa or His later succession, do not sell or distribute. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, everyone. Dance in ecstasy. It is very nice thing. So I have come to your country, come to your place. It is very good. So my request is that you are intelligent boys. Try to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy with your all reason, arguments. It will not to be accepted blindly. Caitanya-caritāmṛta-kaj, the author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, he says, caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra: "Just put into your judgement the mercy of Lord Caitanya." Vicāra karile citte paibe camatkāra: "And if you scrutinizingly judge over it, you'll find it is sublime."
Prabhupāda: Suppose this life I was President Kennedy; next life, even if I am born in America next door to President Kennedy's house, nobody will recognize me that "Here is your property. Come on. Enjoy." No. Property's gone. Again he has to make another property. This is going on. So the people do not think that "What I am doing? What I have gained? What is my ultimate aim of life?" This is missing. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, mūḍha. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍha duṣkṛtino narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam aśritāḥ (BG 7.15). People are not very serious. They're so much in ignorance that they: "All right, let it happen, whatever may happen. We may enjoy life." But this is not very good position. One should be, at least in human form of life, one should be very sober, considerate (of) what is happening. So out of many fruitive workers like this, one becomes wise: "Why I am doing this?" This is wisdom. That is the platform of knowledge, to inquire that "What is my position? What I am? What is my aim of life?" That is the position of the jṇānī, persons who are wise.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: And where is the want of time? They are walking on the street, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. I am sitting here, and now I'm talking with you. As soon as I finish talking, I shall chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So where is the difficulty? But ask people to chant the holy name of God, he won't accept. Unfortunate. And such simple thing. He hasn't got to go to church, to temple, or to go to hell or heaven. In whatever condition he is, he can chant holy name of God. But they're so unfortunate, they won't accept this theory. Etādṛśī tava kṛpā. "So God is so merciful, but I am so unfortunate that I cannot chant His holy name." There is no charges, there is no fee, there is no loss. If there is some gain, why not try for it? And the gain is there. That you practically see. Because these boys from Europe, America, and other places, they were... I do not wish to discuss. (laughter) But just see the process now. Not the process one has... Other has to calculate. Then calculate, then serve. Yes. There is so much profit.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no chance of escape. Chant constantly, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. It remains in the heart. Not only my heart. Others' heart, they also joke, "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" If it can remain in others' heart, why not my heart? Those who are joking me, imitating me. We... Last time, when I was going in Africa, I stopped for few minutes in Athens. Some of the younger residents chant, "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" You see? As soon as they saw us, they began to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. They could understand, "These are Hare Kṛṣṇa people." Yes. So by their dress, by their tilaka, they oblige others to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, either for imitating or for joking. So they gain. But if Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting has got any effect, even by joking like that, he'll get gain. If it is actually spiritual, by simply joking he will get gain.
Journalist (1): So if Christian religion is teaching to understand God and to become obedient to God, then it is all right. If it is not teaching that then it is useless. Simply by stamping, "I am Christian," what do you gain by that?
Journalist (1): Well nothing, but that...
Prabhupāda: That is going on. Simply by stamping, "I am Hindu." "I am Muslim." "I am Christian." What is the gain?
Journalist (1): I've never been able to understand what the gain was either.
Prabhupāda: Now just try to understand Christian religion is good, provided the followers of the Christian actually follow. But they are not following. They are not following. They are simply artificially stamping, "I am Christian." In the Christian religion the first order is thou shall not kill." But the Christians are very expert in killing. So who is Christian? First of all let me see. Their First Commandment is, Lord Jesus Christ, that "Thou shall not kill." Now, every one is killing and still he is Christian. So this kind of Christian religion, or Hindu religion, what will be the benefit? If you don't follow, simply you stamp yourself that "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim..." That is going on.
Prabhupāda: According to time... Deśa-kāla-pātra. That kind of forceful, does not act very nicely. One should know the science, but the class of men to whom Jesus Christ said, they are not very much advanced. Under the circumstances, the fearfulness of hell is quite appropriate for them. Actually, one who does not go back to home, back to Godhead, he is put into the hellish condition of life. That is fearfulness, but we are so blunt that we do not take care. It is fearful. Just like Prahlāda Maharaja said that "Nṛsiṁha-deva, I am not afraid of your this fierce feature of Narasiṁha, but I am very much afraid of this materialistic way of life." Saṁsāra. Saṁsāra means this material world. So, it is actually very fearful. The whole atmosphere is fearful. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ (SB 10.14.58). To make adjustment, you have to accept something fearful. Just like this fight, "In future there may be some adjustment so that people may live peacefully. Therefore, we have to fight." This is also, the method is itself fearful. To gain a position where there will be no fear, we have to accept a fearful method. So, in the material world whatever we think, they are not very happy proposition, that's everything is fear. Karma-kāṇḍīya, they have to undergo so many hardship, then they get something profit. People are working so hard to get some profit. In the material world everything is fearful, hard-working. So, in the Bible it is said that hell or...?
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Bob: Somebody who wishes to do things in life that he may feel are wrong, but he wishes to do to gain power or prestige or money...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bob: ...may find God unattractive. He may not find the God attractive, because God gives him guilt.
Prabhupāda: No, not the God. Because he wants to be powerful, his attraction is to become powerful. A man wants to become powerful, or rich. Is that not? But nobody is richer than Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa is attractive to him.
Bob: So if a rich, if a person who wants to become rich prays to Kṛṣṇa, will he become rich?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Devotee, you can become devotee, as they have become. It is not difficult. Simply you have to engage yourself in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. That's all.
Bob: I wish to gain more knowledge of God and be able to feel God's presence more. The reason for this is because I feel life has little meaning without this.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you miss this human form of life, then it is a great loss. This is a chance given to the living entity to get out of the entanglement of material existence.
Bob: As I feel now...
Prabhupāda: (Speaks to someone in Bengali) (break)
Bob: ...thankful that I've been able to...
Prabhupāda: Yes, you can learn more and more.
Prabhupāda: Suppose if you go to a physician, you are diseased, and the physician says, "All right, I shall give you medicine." And if you say, "Yes, I shall accept the medicine if I like it," then why do you go to that physician? What is the meaning? The physician, one physician doctor friend, long..., forty years ago, he prescribed one of my patent medicines. And the patient little protested because it is Indian-made. He was Eurasian. So as soon as he questioned, "What is this medicine, Indian-made?" "Yes, it is Indian-made. If you have no such faith, don't come to me." He flatly said, "Don't come to me." That should be the position of the physician or ācārya. If you go there, you should accept whatever he says. If you are in doubt, then don't go there. That is the position. It is freedom. It is not that you have to accept some ācārya particular by canvassing. No, you should be inspired that "Yes, here I can surrender, here I can gain something." Then surrender. In the spiritual science, there is no bluffing. Everything must be very clear-cut. Otherwise it will be not very satisfactory. (break) Hear this sound, ca-caw caw. (laughter) Because nobody takes this rooster.
Devotee: But Prabhupāda wants that you should have the highest understanding, not just looking at it from their point of view, but if you present it from our point of view, then it can gain the realest, greatest understanding.
Author: Well, with respect, I think that can only, we can only consider that question in practice. When I actually write the material, you'll have to...
Prabhupāda: No. I mean to say, why there is objection if they are dressed in a particular way?
Author: Oh, I'm not objecting to it at all. In fact, it's one of the most reasons why I'm most strongly in favor of the Hare Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: So they are Hare Kṛṣṇa people, they dress in a particular way. That is the answer. That's all.
Prabhupāda: "You want this property, take property. All right." He's kind, "All right, this man gave me some service, he wants this property. All right, take this property." But what he has gained?
Śyāmasundara: Nothing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I never wanted his property. I simply desired that such a sublime message, like my poetry, that...
Śyāmasundara: First poem upon arriving.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Miracle done. I wanted, "Oh, there is a miracle. If I try to preach this miracle in the world." So he has given me the facility. I never wanted the Gauḍīya Maṭha buildings.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Even if you get it, what do you get? You go to... Supposed you go to church: "God, give us our daily bread." God is giving, then what do you get? Bread is given to the animals also. Why you are going to the church? That is the Communist say, that "We shall give you bread. Why you waste your time with so-called religions?" The politician says that "You want to be happy, there is technology. Why you are going to pray to God? This is all nonsense." They are thinking that. But prayer is not meant for that purpose. Prayer... Just like we are praying, but our prayer is "Kṛṣṇa, kindly engage me in Your service," Hare Kṛṣṇa. "O the energy of Kṛṣṇa, O the Lord Kṛṣṇa, please engage me in Your service." This is our prayer. We are not going to prayer, "O God, give us our daily bread." And if you get bread, then what do you gain?
Śyāmasundara: We've all experienced that. We've had so much bread. What did we get?
Prabhupāda: So, therefore, they are all animals. Fools, rascals. Abodha-jāto, they have been described—all rascals, fools. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma. So long they do not come to the point of understanding spirit soul, they are simply rascals. And whatever they are doing, simply being defeated actually. The so-called scientific research, simply their defeat. What they have gained? That is stated in Bhāgavata. Parābhava. Parābhava means defeat. So long they do not come to the understanding of self, the spirit soul, they are simply rascals and fools. And what the rascals and fools can become victorious? They will never become victorious. They will always be subdued by the laws of nature. Parābhava, defeat simply. Whatever scientific discoveries, there is simply defeat, not conquering. That old scientist, he could not check his old age, so what is the value of his scientific discoveries? He could not check his growing in age, so what is the value of scientific advancement? He will die. They cannot check death, they cannot check old age. Nobody can check death.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Scholar: To seventy-two.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Scholar: Kṛṣṇa gains or speaks as a guru, guru-śiṣya-samudbhava.
Prabhupāda: Well, Kṛṣṇa is the original guru, (indistinct) guru for everyone.
Scholar: So here is as a guru.
Prabhupāda: Guru is the representative of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore guru will also teach to surrender to Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee: Thresher.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Deki(?) What you'll gain?
Prabhupāda: Deki, yes. Simply dag da dag da dag dak. (sound imitation) But the rice is already taken away. So their labor is being spoiled in that way. They, pleasure... For the pleasure's sake, they are spoiling the human facilities. This is their intelligence. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says: jaḍa-vidyā jato māyāra vaibhava tomāra bhajane bādhā, anitya saṁsāre moha janamiyā jībake karaye gādhā. This jaḍa-vidyā, this material science, is simply a hindrance to our progress of spiritual life. All these rascal scientists, they'll deny God. That is their business. Just like you said yesterday that somebody was accepting God, and the other scientists, they thought: "No, it is insult." So already they are in oblivion. They cannot understand what is God. And these rascals are making them more and more rascals. "There is no God." By their scientific research, the rascals are becoming more rascals. And they're becoming captivated: "This is pleasure." What pleasure you will do you with. Therefore they are, they are gādhā. They are gādhā and they are creating gādhās.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They believe there may be life in Mars planet. So they are very hopeful...
Prabhupāda: If they believe or not believe, what gain there is? Life is here also. You are fighting. This is your program. Here is life also. Here is human being. So suppose there is life. There is life, undoubtedly. But what he'll gain? What is your gain?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're very curious to know what is going on there.
Prabhupāda: That means for their childish curiosity they're spending so much money. Just see the fun. To satisfy their curiosity, they're spending so much money. And when they're asked that: "There are so many poverty stricken countries. Help them." "No. No money."
Prabhupāda: Yes. We worship everything. We worship everything, see Kṛṣṇa everywhere. We don't see the tree. We see Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore the tree's also worshipable because Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's energy both are worshipable. Therefore we say Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare means Kṛṣṇa's energy. We worship everything. In our childhood we are taught by our parents, if there is small grain and if it is strut (?) on the feet, we shall pick it up and touch on the forehead. We are taught like this, how to see everything in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. We cannot therefore see anything wasted, anything misused. Why you are preaching? Why we are after so many rascals? That his life is being misused. Let us give him some enlightenment. This is our mission. Or let him go to hell. Just like Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they're engaged in meditation or in the Himalayas, but we have come to Los Angeles. Why? This is our mission. Oh, these things, these people are being misused under māyā, let him gain some enlightenment. This is our mission. We are teaching that, how to utilize everything for Kṛṣṇa. How to understand Kṛṣṇa in everything. That is our mission. See Kṛṣṇa in everything. Yo māṁ paśyati sarvatra. Everything is there in Bhagavad-gītā, why don't you read? Sarvaṁ ca mayi paśyati, yo māṁ paśyati sarvatra, "Anyone who sees Me everywhere and sarvaṁ ca mayi paśyati... and everything in Me, he's perfect."
Prabhupāda: Just see why they are wasting time in that way? Money.
Kṛṣṇa-Kāntī: They were criticized in the paper.
Prabhupāda: Fool. Simply childish. Bālaka. What are they gaining? For the last, how many years they are trying? For going to the moon planet?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Russia started in 1957. First sputnik where Gagarin was there...
Prabhupāda: Twenty-five years. So they could not get anything, not a single farthing even. Still, they are doing. Just see, obstinacy. Punaḥ punaś carvita. This is called chewing the chewed. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). They will never be successful. So I am a layman. When I wrote that Easy Journey? In 1950, 67. How many years?
Prabhupāda: Aiye.
David Wynne: And George now has gained enormously in spiritual steps.
Prabhupāda: He's a very intelligent boy.
David Wynne: Oh yes. But he now is wise as well as just clever.
Prabhupāda: He's fortunate.
David Wynne: And so, from this I think...
Prabhupāda: No. Śyāmasundara has tried his utmost to convince him about Kṛṣṇa.
Śyāmasundara: He said, "Other religions... (break) ...come for a short time." (Breaks in tape)
Prabhupāda: That "how to," that we shall teach, as we are teaching others. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated,
- yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ
- manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ
- yasmin sthito na duḥkhena
- guruṇāpi vicālyate
- (Bg. 6.20-23)
Yaṁ labdhvā. You get something, which getting, you will be satisfied: "I don't want anything more." That is highest gain. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. Cāparam. Another kind of benefit is not required. So yasmin sthitaḥ. If we remain in that position, then even there is hardest difficulty of life, he'll not be disturbed. (pause) Where is Paṇḍitjī?
Pradyumna: Six-twenty-two.
- yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ
- manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ
- yasmin sthito na duḥkhena
- guruṇāpi vicālyate
- taṁ vidyād duḥkha-saṁyoga-
- viyogaṁ yoga-saṁjñikam
- (Bg. 6.20-23)
"Established thus, one never departs from the truth, and upon gaining this, he thinks there is no greater gain. Being situated in such a position, one is never shaken, even in the midst of greatest difficulty. This, indeed, is actual freedom from all miseries arising from material contact."
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Prabhupāda: No.
Śrutakīrti: Gain weight.
Prabhupāda: You have seen all our books.
Father Tanner: I have got several of your books.
Prabhupāda: I see. Thank you. So we are approaching people to become God conscious. That's all. (Aside:) Get the light on. And in the Bhāgavata it is stated, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That is first-class religion which teaches people how to love God. That is first-class religion. It doesn't matter whether it is Hindu religion or Christian religion or Mohammedan religion, if it teaches the followers how to love God, then it is first-class.
Śyāmasundara: "Somehow I'm..."
David Lawrence: "Somehow I've changed."
Śyāmasundara: Yes. "My friends all criticize me for the change, but I don't care."
Prabhupāda: But he's not loser. He's gainer. (laughter) He's gainer. That he can understand. And he's determined. He says, "Even if I am loser, I don't mind."
David Lawrence: If commercial success went, he wouldn't worry.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
David Lawrence: Well, I mean these sort of riches is just unfathomable, aren't they?
Prabhupāda: Hm. (Break) (end)
Prabhupāda: That means their knowledge is not perfect. It is all bogus. (break) ...if you meditate on the body what do you gain?
Yogeśvara: To wake up your psychic consciousness which is sleeping inside this body.
Prabhupāda: But you tell me, what is that process?
Yogeśvara: Well, "meditation number three" is to... (break) He says he would like to talk to you a little bit about a book he is reading which describes how the Russians have just discovered the soul. They have photographed the soul, he says,...
French guest devotee: No, no, the aura.
Yogeśvara: ...how they have, the Russians have found the soul and they have described all the different phenomena of para-psychology and extra sensory perception, and he said it's an incredible book, and the Russians have made great discoveries. He hasn't finished the book yet.
Prabhupāda: That is Russians. I am asking him about his...
Guest (1): Yes, I understood all that. Also, whilst listening, I could quite see that you gain a freedom through grace, and don't have to come back here again, and then I thought that you personally must have come back here because you wanted to. Because you had a job to do perhaps. Well, obviously—not perhaps.
Prabhupāda: Come back?
Pradyumna: He said that you must have come back here because you had a job to do.
Guest (1): You see you, if you were freed in your previous time and did not have to come back, it does occur to me that you have come back because you have a job to do.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also, just like, Kṛṣṇa comes. Similarly Kṛṣṇa's son, God's son, sometimes He comes. Sometimes Kṛṣṇa's great devotee, servant, he comes because the spiritual enlightenment to the fallen souls, that is required. So in the human society, when the living entity gets the chance of having this human form of life, he has got the facility to understand his position, how to go back to home, back to Godhead. So that facility is offered by God, by Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Hauser: Oh, yes, yes. In a way... I... Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. We are taking away a person from the illusionary stage to the real stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Dr. Hauser: But it also seems to me that you have, by gaining this consciousness, you can skip a lot of hard work that it takes in ordinary analysis or in a group therapy, for example...
Prabhupāda: No hard work.
Dr. Hauser: You have to work a lot with yourself to gain...
Prabhupāda: No.
Dr. Hauser: ...insight.
Prabhupāda: No. Believe... There is no question of believe. Suppose you are hungry. I give you some food. I say: "You are hungry. Take this food." So when you take this food, you'll believe that: "Yes, my hunger is now satisfied. I'm getting strength." That is belief. So you are hungry, and if I give you some food, if you don't eat, then how you can believe that your hunger is now satisfied? You must eat. So we say: "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." So why not chant? Where is the loss? If there is any gain, let me take it. That is belief. If I say: "You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." so you have got tongue, you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you chant, you'll believe me, because the result will be there. There is no difficulty. But if you say: "No, I shall not chant," then, then you suffer. What can be done? Anyone can chant. The child chants. If you say: "I don't believe in it. I cannot chant it." So many words. And Hare Kṛṣṇa, two words.
Prabhupāda: The meditation you can do, just like we are also doing meditation, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. But meditation as it is, to absorb the mind fully in God's vision, that is very difficult nowadays, at the present moment. People's mind is very disturbed. They cannot actually meditate. Therefore in this age, meditation, chanting the holy name of the Lord, that is recommended, congregationally. Just like we do, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma... So there is no need of dark room. Just like this boy. He is also a responsible officer in New York. He is also chanting. All these sannyāsīs. And we have got all these beads. So there is no need of meditating in darkness. We are going on the open street. We are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare Hare Rāma... There is no difficulty. Neither we have to select a dark place. Anywhere. Just like I am talking with you, they are chanting. Their chanting is not stopped. So why should you go to a dark room? It is open thing. And it is open for everyone, in any moment. There is no hard and fast rule, that "You have to do like that, do like that." Simply you have to chant, anywhere possible. Suppose if you leave this room, you go on the street, you can chant, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare... Nobody... There is no taxation. There is no loss. But the gain is very great by chanting. And this is recommended in this age, not sophistically to find out a dark room.
Śyāmasundara: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Because he has spent his energy for My service." That will be our gain. Others, they, whatever they are working... Ko vārtha āpto 'bhajatāṁ sva-dharmataḥ. Find out this verse. Ko vā. Ko vārtha āpto 'bhajatāṁ sva-dharmataḥ. This is in Bhāgavata.
Devotee: Bhāgavata.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ hareḥ. Just like many of our disciples, as a matter of civilized man they should have remained at home, obedient to the parents, get married and live peacefully with father and mother. Of course, European, American boys, they do not do that. But it is expected that should be like that. Just like yourself. You should have lived with your father. He also. But you did not do this. So take it for granted, out of sentiment, you took to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tyaktvā sva-dharmam. To live family life, peaceful life, obedient life to the fathers and mothers, this is called sva-dharma. So one gives up this sva-dharma, tyaktvā sva-dharmam, and takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness gone... Not many, a few. So Bhāgavata says, yatra kva vābhadram abhūd amuṣya kim: "What is the wrong there?" Even if he has fallen down, half-way, still there is no wrong. He has gained something. That much service which he has already given to Kṛṣṇa, that is recorded. That is recorded. That is to his credit: "So this living entity has given service."
Prabhupāda: So ko vārtha āpto 'bhajatāṁ sva-dharmataḥ. He's sticking to his own principle of life, but he's not a Kṛṣṇa conscious devotee. Then what is his gain? He'll simply take the fruits of his material activities and he'll have to accept another body according to that. But here, as it is assured in Bhagavad-gītā that śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate (BG 6.41), this man, who took by sentiment Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but could not follow it to the end; by some way or other, he has fallen but he'll be given chance to take birth as a human being, guaranteed, in rich family, or in nice devotee family, yogi family or brāhmaṇa family. So he'll be given chance. But that man will take only the reaction of his activities. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). So if he has acted like cats and dogs, he'll get the cats and dogs. But here it is guaranteed, here it is guaranteed that he's going to get another human body and very nice family.
Śrutakīrti: One who has forsaken his material occupation to engage in the devotional service of the Lord may sometimes fall down while in an immature stage, yet there is no danger of his being unsuccessful. On the other hand, a nondevotee, though fully engaged in occupational duties, does not gain anything.
Prabhupāda: That is the translation. Purport?
Śrutakīrti: "Purport: As far as the duties of mankind are concerned. There are innumerable duties. Every man is duty-bound, not only to his parents, family members, society, country, humanity, other living beings, the demigods, etc., but also to the great philosophers, poets, scientists etc. It is enjoined in the scriptures that one can relinquish all such duties and surrender unto the service of the Lord. So if one does so and becomes successful in the discharge of his devotional service unto the Lord, it is well and good. But it so happens sometimes that one surrenders himself unto the service of the Lord by some temporary sentiment and in the long run, due to so many other reasons, he falls down from the path of service by undesirable association. There are so many instances of this in the histories. Bharata Mahārāja was obliged to take his birth as a stag due to his intimate attachment to a stag.
Śrutakīrti: Yes.
Prajāpati: So therefore, because we're not actually trying to gain the office, there need be no compromise in our preaching. Our preaching can be strictly on the platform...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Prajāpati: ...It always has been.
Prabhupāda: Our, this attempt is for preaching, not for the post. If we get the post it is all right. If we don't get, we are not disappointed. Just like even Kṛṣṇa. He came to preach, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). And did everybody do so, sarva-dharmān? So that it is so sublime... It is not possible. But if one or two men accept, then you are successful.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's just a form of preaching.
Jayatīrtha: We only hear about him eating.
Prabhupāda: Why you did not refute that idea? We see every moment God. What is that light? Even if you see light, what do you gain by that.
Jayatīrtha: He says that Guru Maharaji is the light.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Here is electric light also. So what is the benefit? Light, you have got so many lights. So what is the benefit? If you remain in the darkness, then what is the benefit of this light? Light means you are not in darkness. But you are in darkness. If you have got the light, then you can see Kṛṣṇa. But why do you say that by Kṛṣṇa consciousness we cannot see Kṛṣṇa. Rascal. We may not see. But you have seen the light, why don't you see Kṛṣṇa? Do you know what is Kṛṣṇa if you have seen Kṛṣṇa?
Hṛdayānanda: It's true, Prabhupāda. They are in darkness because they cannot check their material activities by seeing the light. They go on with sense gratification.
Prajāpati: Many of these bogus groups, Prabhupāda, they claim that God is simply sound and light. So their meditation means seeing what they call ājñā-cakra, or point between eyebrows. They see there and they hear sounds, bells and thunder and flute all within. And that is their meditation. Hearing these sounds and see these lights.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but what do you gain by that?
Prajāpati: Supposedly they go to higher levels of existence, higher levels of consciousness. They change the sound and the colors change...
Prabhupāda: But you cannot give up even smoking. You are in higher level of consciousness? So what is the proof that you are on the higher level of the consciousness? You cannot give up even ordinary things.
Jayatīrtha: They say that the scriptures aren't relevant in this age, that they don't make any difference in this age. They were for previous ages.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That Chaganlal this, I pay him extra eighty-five thousand. That is also black. No more white. So the black money was paid in this way, that the money was counted and it was put in a handbag, and it was locked by him. So the key was with him, and the bag was with me. As soon as court accepted the agreement, then I handed over, "Take this bag." Then again this Ratna Parik, he first of all proposed twenty thousand to sell that house. Then when I went there, he knew that he's settling at any cost, he said, "Now that twenty thousand was cost formerly. Now things have gone very high, I cannot sell." So he knows that we are eager to purchase. Then I said, "Then what do you want to do?" "Now I want thirty thousand." "All right, yes. Take it." I did not argue. In this way I settled up. And our Girirāja's father appreciated that "It is better a bad settlement than to prolong the case." So I took this policy. It is bad settlement, from twenty thousand to thirty thousand. But settled out. "I give you 85,000 black." But one thing I gain—that by cancelling the agreement, their proposal was that increase the price, twenty lakhs from fourteen lakhs. That was the arrangement between the attorneys.
Prabhupāda: Yes. People have become cheaters. Therefore their representative is also cheater. You can make vigorous propaganda that "This will not help without prayer, offering prayer to Lord. You shall stopped; it is not good. And prayer means you chant the name of God. So there is no loss on your part. If there is some gain, why don't you try it?" It will be very nice, beneficial.
Umāpati: They have nothing more to lose.
Prabhupāda: "But if you chant, you will be gainer. So... And what is the harm? You chant and see the result."
Umāpati: But they must follow the four regulative principles too.
Prabhupāda: You can advise. Even they do not follow, they will later on follow, by chanting. Yes.
Passers-by: Good morning.
Satsvarūpa: The scientists can give evidence that so much control has been gained. Now we can fly all over the world...
Prabhupāda: Then so much control, that is another thing. But not control. "So much control" means no control. (japa) (break) ...admitted that we are controlled by nature. That you cannot refuse. That is foolishness. Now, next, how nature is working? That is also replied in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram: (BG 9.10) "The material nature is working..." Just like we are also taking the advantage of material nature, kṣity-ap-tejaḥ. Here is earth, but we can take this earth and make into brick and make a skyscraper building. So it is not that the earth itself is going to become a skyscraper building. I am living entity; I am utilizing. So nature means these five elements, eight elements. So that has been manipulated by another living entity. Just like the aeroplane is a combination of some matter, but it is being worked out by the manufacturer, by the pilot.
Prabhupāda: Yes, viparītāni. "I came to fight, to gain my kingdom, but I see the opposite." Viparītāni. "I'll not be able to enjoy my kingdom by killing them." (indistinct) Go on.
Pradyumna: Ah, translation?
Prabhupāda: No, no. You can go on.
Pradyumna:
- na ca śreyo 'nupaśyāmi
- hatvā sva-janam āhave
- na kāṅkṣe vijayaṁ kṛṣṇa
- na ca rājyaṁ sukhāni ca
- (BG 1.31)
Prabhupāda: Translation.
Pradyumna: "I do not see how any good can come from killing my own kinsmen in this battle, nor can I, my dear Kṛṣṇa, desire any subsequent victory, kingdom or happiness."
Prabhupāda: Naturally this will be. Then?
Prabhupāda: Māyāvādīs, they suffer only. Teṣāṁ kleśala eva śiṣyate. In Bhāgavata it is explained, "Their gain is only suffering." That's all.
Mr. Sar: That's why they...
Prabhupāda: Huh? Bhaktim udasya te vibho kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye. Kevala-bodha-labdhaye.
Mr. Sar: Ah, kevala-bodha.
Prabhupāda: Simply trying to know, know, know.
Mr. Sar: Know.
Prabhupāda: You see? So, teṣāṁ kleśala eva śiṣyate: "Their gain is simply their trying for, that labor." Nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām: "It is exactly like one is beating the husk."
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, you do not know, there is.
Indian man (4): Yajña is not necessary at all.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man (4): Yajña is only for getting, to gain certain aims.
Prabhupāda: In the Bhāgavatam you'll find the dākṣa-yajña, dākṣa-yajña. Dākṣa-yajña. There was a goat, and that goat was cut and it was added to the head of Dakṣa Mahārāja.
Indian man (4): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is described in the Bhāgavatam.
Indian man (4): Yajñas are only done for certain aims actually, and are not required at all.
Dr. Patel: Tad ahaṁ bhakty-upahṛtam.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Bhaktya-upahṛtam aśnāmi prayatātmanaḥ. Yes. "Because he has offered Me with faith and devotion and love, I accept it." So when Kṛṣṇa eats something from your hand, then what remains? You gain perfection. All perfection is there. If Kṛṣṇa is accepting something from your hand, "Yes, I will eat it." Then?
Dr. Patel:
- yat karoṣi yad aśnāsi
- yajjuhoṣi dadāsi yat
- yat tapasyasi kaunteya
- tat kuruṣva mad-arpaṇam
- (BG 9.27)
Prabhupāda: Kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam. Therefore this is bhakti-yoga. Whatever you do, the result you give to Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: Whatever you do for Him and forget about it.
Prabhupāda: So they are trying to get that siddha, the perfection, by so much yogic process, but another living entity, without understanding any yogic process, can do that. So these things are not very great gains. There are... In different planets there are different living entities. Just like we cannot touch fire, but in the sun globe there are also life, human beings, but their body is made of fire. Just like in the water. I cannot go into the water, but there are so many small fishes, they are living very nicely. So this we do not know. We are trying to gain success in these material activities, but by God's will, there are different living entities. They have already all the successes. So therefore our real business is not to waste our time to get any material success. Our real business is how we shall be successful to become an obedient servant of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is real success.
Prabhupāda: In the material concept of life, when one works for sense gratification, there is misery, but in the absolute world, when one is engaged in pure devotional service, there is no misery. The devotee in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has nothing to lament or desire. Since God is full, a living entity who is engaged in God's service, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, becomes also full in himself. He is just like a river cleansed of all dirty water. Because a pure devotee has no thought other than Kṛṣṇa, he is naturally always joyful. He does not lament for any material loss or gain because he is full in service of the Lord. He has no desire for material enjoyment because he knows that every living entity is the fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord and therefore eternally a servant. He does not see, in the material world, someone as higher and someone as lower; higher and lower positions are ephemeral, and a devotee has nothing to do with ephemeral appearances or disappearances.
Prabhupāda: Speculative knowledge without any trace of devotional service is simply useless waste of time in search for You. Devotional service is so important that even a little attempt can raise one to the highest perfectional platform. One should not therefore neglect this auspicious process of devotional service and take to the speculative method. By the speculative method, one may gain partial knowledge of Your cosmic manifestation, but it is not possible to understand You, the origin of everything. The attempt of persons who are interested only in speculative knowledge is simply wasted labor, like the labor of a person who attempts to gain something by beating the empty husk of rice paddy. A little quantity of paddy can be husked by the grinding wheel, and one can gain some grains of rice, but if the skin, the paddy, is already beaten by the grinding wheel, there is no further gain in beating the husk. It is simply useless labor."
Prabhupāda: Wherefrom the energy comes?
Dr. Sallaz: From where it comes, our poor human knowledge cannot gain something precise about it. We must believe it—it comes from very high—but to explain it scientifically is completely foolish. That is our opinion. And further, as I said to you when looked at everywhere, if I take India, explain it coming here, that... I received it about ten or twelve years ago. That is what the Christians would speak about, a mystery, something extraordinary. I received from a holy man in India, with which I was corresponding from time to time. Without asking, I received a big book in Sanskrit. I could not understand a word about it. Well, I put it aside preciously...
Prabhupāda: What is that book?
Yogeśvara: This gentleman suggests that he prefers someone who may be committing all four of these sinful activities but who helps his fellow man.
Prabhupāda: The fellow man helping, what does he gain?
Yogeśvara: (translates) He says, "Even if someone is committing all kinds of sinful activities..."
Prabhupāda: No, no. What you gain by helping your fellow man? First of all that is the question.
Yogeśvara: He says, "The purpose of helping other people is not to gain something for yourself."
Prabhupāda: But I say that you help your fellow man. So do you know how to help him?
Swiss Man (1): Certain circumstances.
Yogeśvara: He says, "In certain circumstances."
Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of renunciation?
Yogeśvara: (Reading from dictionary) It says, "The giving up of things, self-denial."
Prabhupāda: That's right. So renunciation means giving up. So suppose you are working as a scientist. You give up. Then what do you gain by that giving up?
Robert Gouiran: Because...
Prabhupāda: First of all, why should you give up?
Robert Gouiran: To get... To get, to get free...
Prabhupāda: "To get." The word is "to get."
Robert Gouiran: Well, I'm not English-speaking.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that is the meaning. You renounce to get something else. Otherwise, what is the meaning of this renunciation.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is devotion. To work on the spiritual plane means devotion, devotional service. That is spiritual. Otherwise what is the meaning of renunciation? Suppose you are working as scientist. You renounce. What do you gain? Unless you gain something better, then there is meaning of renouncing.
Robert Gouiran: I was taught... Well, if you are speaking about...
Prabhupāda: Otherwise, it has no meaning.
Robert Gouiran: ...etymology.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Robert Gouiran: Devoted means...
Prabhupāda: No, without result, why should I practice unnecessarily? (aside) Go. Take sleep. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says the religious life is not a bargain between God and him. He says we just have to practice without gaining, without waiting for any result, without praying...
Prabhupāda: No, no, we are not so fool, without any result we are going to do anything. We are not so fool. (French)
Bhagavān: According to their philosophy, if whether you practice or you don't practice you get the same result in the end, what's the use of doing anything? If at death everything merges back, what's the use of doing anything? Why not commit suicide? (French)
Prabhupāda: No. When there is political game, everyone does everything to gain his victory. In politics, these things are allowed. Just like killing, fighting, kṣatriya's fighting. That killing is allowed. But killing is not allowed generally. Kṛṣṇa has killed so many. If you take from moral point of view, He's sometimes immoral. He has killed His maternal uncle, Kaṁsa, and Śiśupāla, Śiśupāla, his cousin brother. And Balarāma killed Rukma. Once He saved him, and another time, that Aniruddha's marriage, or something like that... Balarāma killed Rukma, the brother of Rukmiṇī. They were family relatives. But there was some misunderstanding in chess playing that other party, Rukma, he was cheating by tricks. The Balarāma became so angry, they killed him. So in politics amongst the kṣatriyas, these things are not uncommon.
Prabhupāda: If you want to dance, you cannot be shy. There is a Bengali proverb, nate vase guṇṭhana tana (?). You understand Bengali? No. That, "When you are going to dance... A girl, or a lady is supposed to dance in the platform, in the stage, and when she came, she saw thousands of people. Then she drew her veil, what is called, guṇṭhana, became little ashamed. So you are going to dance. What is the use of veiling yourself?" So similarly, when one takes part in politics, if you don't take all the tactics of politics, then you cannot gain ground.
Devotee: But more and more the people, especially in America, they are seeing how these politicians are cheating. Because every year, in every campaign, the same politician is saying, "I will do this, I will do that," and when he gets into office, he never does anything. But maybe now this time, when our Kṛṣṇa conscious devotees are running and they are showing the people what rascals... Just like Balavanta on TV, he was saying "How can these people be leader, when they are themselves permitting slaughter, drinking, smoking, having illicit sex life."
Prabhupāda: You can become a life member and read all these books and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is no loss. Suppose you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa there is no material loss on your part, but if there is any gain, why don't you take it?
Prof. Pater Porsch: No, my question was perhaps a little, not quite clear. Many of us here, myself felt, represent not only our personal selves but are here on behalf of certain institutions and we are active in some form or other of public service, these gentlemen probably also. And in what way, for example, would we serve your movement by giving a clear explanation about the aims of your activity, for example, removing prejudices and supporting Sanskrit studies and the better distribution of the Bhagavad-gītā in this form, in such ways, perhaps?
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are writing these books for distribution.
Prabhupāda: What is the loss if we sit together and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa? And if there is some gain (indistinct) If you propose this in the United Nations do you think (indistinct)
Guest: Like we did together in Delhi.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You have seen it? They are very much eager.
Guest: So many people.
Prabhupāda: They are very much eager. (indistinct)
Guest: Eager?
Prabhupāda: And the other, the communist and the other (indistinct). I have seen many big, big officers they are chanting returning from the office and they are chanting and dancing. (indistinct) 20,000, 30,000. (indistinct) Now the government did not give us again that place in Delhi.
Prabhupāda: And "Hallowed be Thy..." Those who are chanting the name of God, Kṛṣṇa, just see the result, whether they are improving or not than those who have no name. Come to the practical field. These boys and girls, before my coming in the western countries, they were all so many, I do not wish to... (laughing) Now by simply chanting the name, how much improvement they have done? So why there should be any objection to chant this name? And what is the loss there? Suppose anyone chants Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. There is no loss, but the gain is practical. Why do they not, these theosophists, do not agree to chant this name, simple thing?
Professor Durckheim: I think they don't know it, and then...
Prabhupāda: That is the fact. They don't know it. And still, they are theologicians. They are philosophers.
Prabhupāda: No, no. There was a boy. He was theologician. Prajāpati, Prajāpati. Do you remember? He was theologician. Our only request is that Bible confirms there is name. Now, even though they do not know the name, here is the name, Kṛṣṇa. So why people will not take this name to chant? And if by chanting the name there is practical benefit, why they should object? Why they should be so sectarian? Theologician, at least, must not be sectarian. So let the whole world chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So there is no loss. If there is any gain, why not take it? And because you are writing books, therefore I am requesting you to write this, that some of the Christians, they say there is no name, but Christ says there is name, and here is the name. They are chanting, and they are getting profit. We don't want anything. We don't want any price, that I have researched the name.
Prabhupāda: And we are practically doing that. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa—this is our business. We always keep the chanting beads just like you are keeping. Yes. Chant, that's all. Everyone should do. Where is the harm? If everyone takes this chanting... You are Christian; you have taken. Why not other Christians? They also can take. Chant. There is no loss. By chanting, there is no loss, but there is good gain, so why should we miss this opportunity of chanting? The cats and dogs, they cannot chant. But we have got human tongue, we can chant. There is no loss, but there is great gain. Now, these young boys, they are always chanting. It is only practice. It is training. These young boys and girls, they could go and act so many things frivolously, but now they have given up everything. They don't eat meat, egg, fish, no intoxication up to drinking tea or smoking, no gambling, no illicit sex and chanting. (pause) If you can cooperate, then we go to the church and chant, "Christ, Christ, Christo, Christo, Christo, or Christo, Christo." Is there any objection?
Cāru:
- idam adya mayā labdham
- imaṁ prāpsye manoratham
- idam astīdam api me
- bhaviṣyati punar dhanam
- asau mayā hataḥ śatrur
- haniṣye cāparān api
- īśvaro 'ham ahaṁ bhogī
- siddho 'haṁ balavān sukhī
- āḍhyo 'bhijanavān asmi
- ko 'nyo 'ti sadṛśo mayā
- yakṣye dāsyāmi modiṣya
- ity ajñāna-vimohitāḥ
- (Bg. 16.13-15)
Translation: "The demoniac person thinks: 'So much wealth do I have today, and I will gain more according to my schemes.' "
Prabhupāda: Next. Next bank balance. Then?
Cāru: " 'So much is mine now and it will increase in the future, more and more. He is my enemy, and I have killed him; and my other enemy will also be killed. I am the lord of everything, I am the enjoyer, I am perfect, powerful and happy. I am the richest man, surrounded by aristocratic relatives. There is none so powerful and happy as I am. I shall perform sacrifices, I shall give some charity, and thus I shall rejoice.' In this way, such persons are deluded by ignorance."
Prabhupāda: That is false. That I am saying. This is false responsibility. Actually you cannot become responsible. You have no power. Everyone is under the laws of nature. Just like some birds flying in the sky. The father, mother, and children, but nobody is responsible for anyone. When there is danger in the sky, you cannot give protection. Suppose one bird is hit, he is falling. The father, mother, and others, they cannot give any protection. He has to become responsible for himself. Just like the aeroplane. When the one plane is in danger, no other plane come and help it. Even if you see that the other plane is flying a few yards and if it is in fire, you cannot help. There is one nice story that one hunter was hunting birds and he spread his network. So when the children of the parent birds, they become victimized by the network. So when the parents came, they saw, "Oh, my children have been caught up by the net of the hunter." So mother became very overwhelmed. She went to rescue them and she also become victimized. Then the father was intelligent, he saw that "My children, my wife, they all have been victimized, and if I foolishly go to save them, then I will be also victimized. Let me go this way." Take sannyāsa and go. No responsibility. It is not possible when everyone is captured by the laws of nature. How you can help and what is your responsibility? So this is called māyā. The children are thinking that "My father and mother will give me protection," and the father and mother is thinking that "There is my responsibility." This is called māyā. With this false responsibility, they are packed up in a home. But when death comes, nobody can help. Nobody. This is happening every day, every moment, and still we are falsely thinking I am responsible. So what is the value of your responsibility? If you cannot give protection, then what is the value of your responsibility? There is no responsibility. The only responsibility is that I have got this human form of life. Even in this life I do not realize God, then I remain cats and dogs, that's all. This is the only responsibility. If you miss this opportunity, then I do not know what I am going to become in my next life. So gaining or losing this opportunity, that is my responsibility. If I am not responsible... (break)
Prabhupāda: These are different symptoms of the same material disease. Somebody is thinking "I shall become minister," somebody is thinking "I shall become leader," somebody is thinking "I shall become millionaire," and at last, "I shall become God." So even the so-called religionist, that heart disease is there. Bhukti-mukti-siddhi kāmī. Bhukti means ordinary karmīs want to enjoy in this material world. And mukti, they also want "I shall become God, I shall become one with God." That means "I shall become God." One with God means I'll become. Bhukti-mukti and siddhi. The yogis, they want to show some magic power and gain. Just like this rascal is doing, (indistinct) Baba. He has some yogic siddhi, so he has some (indistinct). Otherwise what is the attraction? He is a most wretched man, always he's smoking, and he sleeps too long, no regulation of life. But people are attracted because they have been captivated that "If I pay him one lakh, I shall get two lakhs." This is the propaganda. It is a..., what is called, gambling. You put one rupee, and if you are successful you will get four rupees. Siddhi. Because material world, they think "If I get more money, then it is perfection." Everywhere, the whole world is thinking-nationwise, individual—how to become. You will find in Europe the same propensity.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, no, there is proof. It is not emotion. What you say, you have no proof, but what I say I have got proof. What you say, you become your own authority. But what I say, I have got greater authority. Just like two lawyers speaking before the court—the lawyer who gives quotation from the authority, he gains the case.
Professor: Do you have any evidence?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Professor: Would you tell us your experiences in that field?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that, of course, it will take time for you to understand. Because unless you are lawyer, you cannot understand while the other lawyer is giving quotation. But the court will accept.
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He still wants to go on with the same question he asked before: If we are content just to purify ourselves or if we also want to help the society.
Prabhupāda: No, you do not know what is self. How you will purify? You do not know what is self. Can you say what is self?
Prabhupāda: Indians are meant for doing good to others. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. An Indian can become perfect because there is all the Vedic literature. Janma sārthaka kari'. First of all you become perfect then preach the knowledge for other's benefit. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's. Now our leaders say, "Throw away these all śāstras in the water." This is going on. And what they have gained by throwing away? And actually government is against us, against my movement in India. What can I do?
Guest (1): At this time I think India also needs as much spiritual movement as anybody else in the world.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Guest (1): At this time I think India itself needs as much as spiritual needs.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): We are as much backwards as anybody else in the world, probably more so.
Prabhupāda: Because we have lost our original culture and we could not take the Western culture. So we are in the wilderness.
Prabhupāda: And Caitanya Mahāprabhu gives very shortcut formula that "You sit together, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and everything will be solved." Very simple thing: "Sit together and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." That also they will not do. There is no loss. Let us make an experiment—that also we are not executing. What is the loss? If we sit together and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa we are not losing anything. If there is some gain, why not make an experiment? So if you propose this to the United Nation, he'll think of me, "A crazy fellow."
Ambassador: Like we did together in Delhi.
Atreya Ṛṣi: "Ācārya and..., of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement under the banner of International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. I state that I have imposed all my faith, integrity and honesty in my aforesaid Guru Mahārāja with the result he is the sole responsible person and supreme authority of my present position and status which I have gained and I am holding in the organization of the International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. I, the said Mr. So and So, both names, do hereby swear in the name of Kṛṣṇa that I will bear true faith and alliance to the constitution, by-laws, rules, regulations and directions which," and this has been added, "which have been given, including four regulative principles..."
Madhudviṣa: They should be stated too.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Amogha:
- tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer
- bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi
- yatra kva vābhadram abhūd amuṣya kiṁ
- ko vārtha āpto 'bhajatāṁ sva-dharmataḥ
- (SB 1.5.17)
"Translation: One who has forsaken his material occupations to engage in the devotional service of the Lord may sometimes fall down while in an immature stage, yet there is no danger of his being unsuccessful. On the other hand, a nondevotee, though fully engaged in occupational duties, does not gain anything."
Prabhupāda: That's it. They are thinking, "I am doing my duty," but they do not gain anything. And a person doesn't care for any responsibility; he comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He gains something. Even if he falls down in immature stage, he gains something. But other man, he is doing his duty very nicely, but he is gaining nothing. You should read the purport.
Prabhupāda: Even by sentiment one comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is not loser; he is gainer. And if one person does not come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he does his duty very nicely, he gains nothing.
Paramahaṁsa: Due to the so many rascal commentators on the Bhagavad-gītā, in India all the Indians have a conception that the perfection of human life is to simply execute one's karma or to do his duty to his family, etc, and therefore they're wasting their time in this way and completely neglecting devotional service. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)
Prabhupāda: You bring so many varieties of food: And my duty is to eat.
Paramahaṁsa: Yes. So...
Prabhupāda: Yes. I think it is... Maybe it is described in Seventeenth Chapter. According to our free will, we are associating with certain type of the modes of material nature, and then we become subjected to that material modes. The same example: you infect some disease, contamination, and you gain the result of it. So our endeavor should be how to raise ourself to the first, to the sattva-guṇa. That we can do. And then transcend sattva-guṇa and reach the spiritual platform. Everyone is trying to improve his position, but they do not know what is meant by improvement. Improvement means mostly they are in tamo-guṇa, ignorance. So rise from tamo-guṇa to rajo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa to sattva-guṇa, and then sattva-guṇa to transcendence. That is improvement. So generally, people are suffering on account of association with tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, whole material world, mostly tamo-guṇa and few of them in rajo-guṇa. The symptoms of rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa are lust and greediness.
Amogha: Now they are also thinking that different types of meat cause cancer, not only heart disease but cancer.
Gaṇeśa: What have the scientists got to gain by bluffing?
Prabhupāda: Position. Material world means they want some material gain, some adoration, and some fame. That's all. This is material world. So if by bluffing you I get some material profit and adoration and fame, why shall I not do it? Everyone is doing that.
Amogha: That's the cheating propensity.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In material world they have come to imitate God—adoration, fame, material profit. Just like this man. He has come to this country. He is getting money, he is getting woman, and becoming God amongst the fools. He is satisfied. That's all. This is not gain? If I get woman, money, and adoration, is it not gain for me?
Prabhupāda: Whatever they may be. What is the wrong there, that, if we sit down together and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra without any loss of our factory or work? But if there is some gain, why not try it?
Justin Murphy: A delightful idea, a beautiful idea, and a very simple-sounding idea. How about, however, the Anglicans, the Roman Catholics, who are bound in this...
Prabhupāda: No, what is the... No, Roman Catholics... We don't say that Roman Catholics cannot perform yajña. We say that you chant the holy name of God. So Roman Catholics they have God or not, no God?
Justin Murphy: Well, they think they do a lot of that on a Sunday morning.
Prabhupāda: No, whatever it may be, any religious system... Religious system means connection with God. Is it not?
ustin Murphy: Do you mean that the, that that, then, will allow me, if I come to that realization, that that will allow me to then continue to improve my mind, continue to study, to think, to gain knowledge...
Prabhupāda: As far... Yes.
Justin Murphy: ...beyond say the normal sixty-five or seventy years that I might live in what I imagine to be this body?
Prabhupāda: The knowledge should be acquired from the beginning of life, from childhood. But if by circumstances I could not get this knowledge from childhood, then we should begin immediately. Because unless we get this knowledge, our life remains imperfect. We remain animal. The animal does not know this. And after evolutionary process, coming to the human form of body, if we keep ourself in the darkness of animal life, then our this opportunity is lost. This is the first problem. Unfortunately, the modern education is... Leaders, they have no education, and they are thinking just like animal that "I am this body." Therefore you are thinking you are Australian, I am thinking I am Indian, he is thinking American, he..., only on this bodily concept of life. But we are not this body.
Prabhupāda: So if you distribute this knowledge, that will be real social work. And if you give some help, temporary, but he remains subjected to the rules of birth, death, and old age, that is temporary.
Sister: If you're devoted enough can you gain release from birth, death, and old age completely in one life?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is explained here.
Sister: Yeah, within one material life? You necessarily don't have to return?
Prabhupāda: No.
Sister: It's only if you haven't got rid of these impurities that you have to return, take on another body?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mother: But nobody off the street would go into the temple, would they?
Prabhupāda: Any way, if he comes in contact with us, he is gainer. We are giving opportunity, canvassing, "Come in contact with us." Just now, before you, one big man came. So I talked about first-class men, and he admitted. So he said at the last moment, "Now let me go and engage myself in fourth-class activities." So everyone is engaged in fourth-class activities, and we are trying to make first-class men. That is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Mother: You've got a hard job ahead of you, then.
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes, very hard job. But everyone can become first class if he likes.
Mother: If they want to.
Prabhupāda: No, they are most pious. Because you want to live more by science, so they are also living more years. What is the use of such living, like tree? Therefore Bhāgavata says taravo kiṁ na jīvanti. You are trying to live more years by scientific advancement, but do the trees not live for many, many years? What you will gain by that? Suppose you live for three thousand years, what you will gain if you remain ignorant? Better live for a few years and understand that this material world is worse, I have to go to the spiritual world and meet Kṛṣṇa. That knowledge will help you. You live for ten years, but get this knowledge, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is perfect life. And what is the use of living like this tree for many thousands of years without any knowledge? (break) ...cars, they have come to botanical garden? No.
Yogi Bhajan: No, granted. What we are trying to do is we are giving out a call to all learned, the unlearned... But basic fact is: there is a desire somewhere in the ether that everybody wants to feel each other. And they have not done anything good by negating each other or talking negatively. They have not gained anything. They have realized it now. Otherwise...
Prabhupāda: Now, what will be the basic principle of unity? That is the point.
Yogi Bhajan: The point of basic unity is respect for each other.
Prabhupāda: But that is going on. Suppose you have come here. I welcome you. If I go to your place, you welcome me. That respect is going on.
Yogi Bhajan: Yeah, that's right. That is between two individuals.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, whenever we come in a big assembly, we respect each one, gentlemen. There is no harm.
Yogi Bhajan: But they are very beautiful people. One of the girl there in your organization almost brought tears to my eyes. And it is very seldom I have tears, and I love them when they come. And she said to me, she just came and hugged me. "Oh, Yogiji, I love you, you came." I said, "Oh, don't tell anybody. I just want to go around. And I want to run away." So she knows me. And she took me to her one store where there where a lot of books, and she asked me to have some books, and some of them I had, some I didn't. So I picked up. And she said, "You know, we were raised like dogs. Now we are being raised like gods. You think this old man, our god, is going to stay with us?" You know, she is very young in your organization. I said, "What are you talking, a old man?" She said, "Our Prabhupāda." Then she took your whole name with reverence. And I looked in her eyes. I said, "Look, my dear daughter, if that man has taught you so much love, then you will never be separated. Keep doing what you are doing. You will be all right." There is devotion. There is a power to learn. There is a power to gain. They have many faults, but they have many merits also. I think it is a time to present them, as they perform of the humanist to the whole world. And that will take away a lot of misunderstandings.
Prabhupāda: No, misunderstanding, there are... That will continue. You see?
Prabhupāda: That is useless.
Siddha-svarūpa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: What he will gain by such argument? You are not going there neither you are interested for going to the moon planet. For knowledge sake it is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and everyone is... Just like when we speak of the hell, everyone is little anxious, "Where are the hell?" So that is described. In the down this universe there are lokas.
Harikeśa: So, in other words, it would make no... It would be not a very good program to get some understanding from Vedic astronomy, like, say, some expert Vedic astronomers.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...they are afraid of death?
Bali-mardana: Well, the Chinese figure they have so many people that even if there is a war...
Prabhupāda: They are gainer.
Bali-mardana: There will still be so many of them left. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...they will be left. (break) Harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). (break) ...Hare Kṛṣṇa. Don't bother. (break) (in car) Statistics of hitchhike. What is called, hitchhike?
Siddha-svarūpa: Hitchhikers.
Prabhupāda: So mostly rape cases.
Prabhupāda: Our science is stated in the Vedas, yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. Just try to understand Kṛṣṇa, and everything will be understood. So try to understand one, Kṛṣṇa, and then you understand everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. (break) ...philosophy is, it is said, that bhaktim... śreya-sṛtiṁ bhaktim... śreya-sṛtiṁ bhaktim upasya, ye kliśyanti kevala-bodha-labdhaye. Kevala-bodha means just trying to understand this, that, this, that, this, that, this, that. In this way they are wasting time and giving up devotional service to the Lord. So what is the result? Bhaktim udapasya te vibho kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye. Kevala-bodha. The duration of life is very short, and he is gathering knowledge by going to the moon. In this way he is wasting his time. So the result is that waste of time. That is their gain and nothing more. Just see that these people instead of teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they wanted to study, go to the moon planet to understand. The result is, their only result is, that they have labored so much, and that is their gain, nothing else. What other thing they have made. Teṣāṁ kleśala evāvaśiṣyate nānyad yathā sthula-tuṣāvaghāṭīnām. Just like you beat the skin of rice paddy. You will not get rice. Simply your labor, "Gad, gad, gad, gad," that will be your gain. So their only gain is that they have learned that in the moon there is dust like here, that's all. This is their... (laughs) As if we are very much eager to know that there is also dust in the moon. (laughs) And they bluff people selling ticket for going to moon planet. Pan American?
Prabhupāda: Unmotivated means "Oh, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, service of Kṛṣṇa, is so nice. Let me begin immediately." Now, "What will be the result? What shall I gain? What is the profit?" No such consideration. "Begin immediately." And if you begin in that way, there is no impediment. Apratihatā. It is so nice thing. In the material world, if you want to begin some work, then you require some preliminary qualification. It doesn't require any preliminary qualification. Whatever qualification you have got, that is sufficient. Begin. And nobody can say, "Oh, I am not educated," "I am not rich," or "I am not born of a high family." There are so many. No. These things are not impediments. Educated or uneducated, culture or no culture, it doesn't matter. You can begin immediately. The Indian culture was checked by the caste brāhmaṇas, that "This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is meant for the Hindus." Therefore it was not spread.
Prabhupāda: Mind is... I will meditate on my office work. When I close my eye I shall sleep. I have seen it. Big... (makes snoring noise) (laughter) I have seen it, old ladies meditating. This is not practical. Meditation is described in Vedic..., dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ: (SB 12.13.1) mind is fully absorbed in God, and he is seeing the Supreme Lord within his heart. That is meditation, not snoring. That is not meditation. Impractical. But if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, immediately you can join, immediately, "Oh." Even the child will join. So this is practical. And that is recommended,
- kalau doṣa-nidhe rājan
- asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ
- kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya
- mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet
- (SB 12.3.51)
That is recommended by Śukadeva Gosvāmī, that "I have described so many faults of this age of Kali, but there is one very biggest gain." What is that? "That simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa one becomes free from all material bondage." This is the special advantage of this age.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes. It is bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yoga begins with chanting. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). And the more you chant and hear, you become purified. So I think you leaders of your country, you should take this movement very seriously and take it for acceptance. It is not difficult. Chanting. You can chant in school; you can chant in college; you can chant in the factory; you can chant on the street. There is no special qualification required. But if we introduce this chanting, you will be benefited great. There is no loss, but there is great gain.
Dr. Wolfe: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you are aware that they advance the argument of mesmerization against chanting. The psychologists do that.
Prabhupāda: That's good. That's good. If you can mesmerize, that will... Now Dr. Judah has admitted that you can mesmerize the drug-addicted hippies and engage them in understanding Kṛṣṇa, is a great achievement. (laughter) Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes, very powerful. Now she is going to hell, so powerful. She is so powerful, now she is going to hell.
Kāśīrāma: The United Nations has declared this year International Woman's Year so that all the women can gain more liberation from the bondage of being under the supremacy of man.
Prabhupāda: But how to get liberation, not being pregnant?
Kāśīrāma: That's one of the programs.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Let them be liberated, not being pregnant. The man will be pregnant equally. (laughter) Where is that liberation? Can they make any resolution, "Now, man has to become pregnant also equally."
Jayatīrtha: The scientists will begin work on that.
Prabhupāda: Another meaning of guṇa is rope; it is to be understood that the conditioned soul is tightly tied by the ropes of illusion. A man bound by the hands and feet cannot free himself—he must be helped by a person who is unbound. Because the bound cannot help the bound, the rescuer must be liberated. Therefore, only Lord Kṛṣṇa, or His bona fide representative the spiritual master, can release the conditioned soul. Without such superior help, one cannot be freed from the bondage of material nature. Devotional service, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, can help one gain such release. Kṛṣṇa, being the Lord of illusory energy, can order this insurmountable energy to release the conditioned soul. He orders this release out of His causeless mercy on the surrendered soul and out of His paternal affection for the living entity who is originally a beloved son of the Lord. Therefore surrender unto the lotus feet of the Lord is the only means to get free from the clutches of the stringent material nature.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the gain of human life. Arthadam. This is meaning. Artha means meaning. Arthadam. Durlābhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam. This human life, form of life, is very, very rare. So one can say, "You will also die like cats and dog. How it is rare?" No, yes, adhruvam arthadam: "Although it is temporary, it will not stay, but you can have meaning of life." Adhruvam arthadam. Everything is there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The materialistic people say that... When they see someone in the detached position, they say, "He is impoverished." They are so confused that they conclude the opposite.
Prabhupāda: "I have great love and regard toward you and I desire to win and gain your love and friendship by a kind, just and peaceable life. And the people I send are of the same mind. And I shall in all things behave." And what about the shooting? (laughter) (break) ...shooting?
Ravīndra-svarūpa: It was a lie.
Kīrtanānanda: They made up a saying, "The only good Indian was a dead Indian." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...nation or... So? Dancing?
Prabhupāda: Then why do you bother? Stop speculating. Everything is eternal. Why do you bother yourself to find out something new?
Rāmeśvara: To control. To gain control.
Prabhupāda: No, you cannot control because you are controlled. That is eternally you are controlled. You are controlled.
Yadubara: Also, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they don't recognize that there are so many species of life. Just like the white man and the black man they will say is one species. And also the aborigine.
Prabhupāda: We... Let us accept forms, not species but forms. It doesn't matter. There is only change of words. There are so many forms.
Prabhupāda: I say (?) "Fox, go to the forest. (laughter) And cry there." Yes, we treat them as foxes and jackals, that's all, not even human beings. Why they waste time in this way and people are enamored by them? That is... Just like you were talking about space meeting. What they have gained out of it? And people are enamored to talk about them, write in the newspaper or make a subject matter. And then all of a sudden death comes, "Get out," finished. You see? How foolish they are. So, Hayagrīva prabhu, how you are feeling?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hayagrīva.
Prabhupāda: How you are feeling?
Hayagrīva: Oh, fine, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: So why don't you produce more and give to India?
Rādhā-vallabha: Well, it belongs to us.
Prabhupāda: Why other parts, they will suffer for gain. That's nice. You have made scientific improvement. You produce more and distribute to the poor country. (break) we become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and become advance in science and cooperate. That is our proposition. Andha-kañja-nyāya. One is blind; one is lame. So let the lame man be taken by the blind man. He can walk and they... Both their work will be nicely done. That I put this argument always. Andha-kañja-nyāya. You are blind by material advancement, and India has got spiritual advancement, but for want of money they cannot Move. So you take this lame man, you blind, on your shoulder, and cooperation will be good for the whole world. (end)
Prabhupāda: ...black government is going on all over the world. What they will think of people's welfare?
Brahmānanda: They are all against us.
Prabhupāda: Simply political gain. (break)
Jagadīśa: ...back to the temple we'll be performing āratik to Your Divine Grace. And there was not very much time. I was wondering whether during the time we're performing āratik to you, whether it's proper to be giving out cookies to the children?
Prabhupāda: As you make convenient.
Jagadīśa: Is that proper?
Prabhupāda: No. So we can go back now. Again program. (break) .now?
Jagadīśa: 6:30.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Demigods... Yes. Just like one who is trying to get some good service. So they are worshiping this boss, that boss. That is also demigod, because without flattering some boss he cannot get some good job; without flattering the voters he cannot get the ministership. That is demigod worship. They have to flatter somebody. Why this Ram Gulab has gone to...? He has to flatter there. This is going on. The big bosses in the United Nation, they are demigods, supposed to be. He thinks, "If I flatter them, then I will be able to keep my position." But he does not think that this position will be lost after some years. Tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām. He has forgotten his eternal life, Kṛṣṇa, and he is flattering these demigods. That's all. What he will gain? He will die. That's all. At the time of death what these United Nation leaders will do?
Prabhupāda: Yes. You get material profit. (break) Bhagavad-gītā it is said, (sic:) alpavat tu phalaṁ teṣām: "The result of material profit is for a short duration of time," tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām, "and these things are desired by less intelligent class of men." His real need is how to gain his spiritual life. That is his real need. But he does not want that. He wants some material profit for the time being. This is less intelligent. Suppose if somebody gives you some money and he says, "Tomorrow I shall take it away," will you... (laughs) So tad bhavaty alpa-medhasā. (break) ...kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajanty anya-devatāḥ: (BG 7.20) "They worship demigods, bewildered by lusty desires." And so long we have got lusty desires, we have to change our body, and that we do not know, what kind of body we are going to get next birth. Therefore, without knowing this, if we become mad after material profit, then less intelligent.
Prabhupāda: Standing in one place for ten thousand years? Why should you prolong your life? For suffering? You are suffering, that is your problem, so what is the use of prolonging your life? This is foolishness. What do you gain by prolonging life if you are suffering? Stop suffering. That is wanted. How you can stop suffering? With suffering, prolonging life, what is the benefit?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Just means more, longer suffering.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And even if you prolong life, how long you'll prolong? There are trees. They are thousand times prolonging than your life. In... What is called? San Francisco, the Golden...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Redwood trees.
Prabhupāda: Why did you not, "Do you know English?" (laughter)
Mahāṁsa: So first of all Acyutānanda... I wasn't there, but Acyutānanda and Yaśodānanda said, "No, we don't know much San... A little bit. We don't..." So he quoted, "Sarva dharmān... Do you know that verse?" So they said, "Yes." So he said, "Explain what is the meaning of that verse." He started the whole conversation. We didn't want to get into any philosophical argument. So they started explaining what is the meaning, one must surrender to Kṛṣṇa. And then it went on, who is Kṛṣṇa. And then finally Acyutānanda and Yaśodānanda were quoting so many ślokas that they were completely baffled, and the whole crowd that was there, they were appreciating, and we were defeating them. By every śloka we were defeating them, and they were completely baffled. Ultimately he said—he could not fight back—so he said, "Swamiji, you are right," and he wanted to close the whole conversation because the people were gaining our side. They were being convinced by our ślokas.
Prabhupāda: This is Kṛṣṇa's mercy.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Harikeśa: But I couldn't understand how air...
Prabhupāda: You have to gain that intelligence.
Harikeśa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Sound is the proof that there is ether. Śabda. Now, I am talking, you are hearing. How you are hearing? Ethereal transportation. Otherwise how you can hear? I am talking here, and why you are hearing? This is ethereal. The sound is being produced, somehow or other the ether is passing, just (like) tele... What is called? Radio.
Harikeśa: They heard, people on the earth, talking on the moon.
Dr. Patel: Yogo bhavateo. Yoga can be caught and can be lost. Yoga can be caught and can be lost. So that type of yoga. Not this bhakti-yoga.
Prabhupāda: No, this is lost, when you are in materially, that is lost. And when you are spiritually joined, that is gained. Yoga and viyoga. Tasmād yogī bhavārjuna, Kṛṣṇa says Arjuna to become yogi, bhakti-yogi.
Dr. Patel: Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ yogatena āntarātmanā (BG 6.47), and then, er,...
Prabhupāda: In another place...
Dr. Patel: Yo māṁ bhajate ananya bhāk.... sa me yuktatamo mataḥ. Yogo māṁ bhajate ananya bhāk.
Prabhupāda: Sa sannyāsī sa yogī ca.
| Page Title: | Gain (Conversations 1968 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 23 of Aug, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=103, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 103 |