Prabhupāda: Just like in comparison to the ant, our life, human being—we have got hundred years age—so to the ant it may be very astonishing: "Oh, how such a great length of time one can live?" Similarly, we may be astonished by hearing twelve hours duration of Brahmaloka, but actually there is. But still, you cannot avoid death. Death is there. So from this book we understand from the version of Kṛṣṇa, or God, that ā-brahma bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). Even if you go to the highest planetary system, again you have to come back. In this way, all living entities are rotating from one planet to another, from one species of life to another. But we don't want this actually. If I say that "If I give you a nice body, youthful body, and eternal body, full of knowledge," would you not like to have it? Nobody likes old age, nobody likes death, nobody likes to die, nobody likes to take birth again, enter into the womb of mother and live there ten months. You are tight packed. Nobody likes. But what is the solution? Is there any solution by the scientist? No scientist can say, "Well, all right, we shall stop death. We shall stop disease."
Full knowledge (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That's all right. He is American. He is human being. In so many qualities you are one. But you cannot claim for that, you are President Nixon. You should understand in that way. In so many respect, qualities, you are one with God, but that does not mean you are God. God is one. That means you have no complete understanding. Just like in spite of your becoming American or human being, you deny to identify yourself with President Nixon because you have full knowledge of President Nixon and yourself. And as soon as you say, "I am God," that means you have no full knowledge of God. You are insane. You do not know what is God. That very thing immediately asserts that you are unknown factor about God. God is said, "Great," but you are claiming that greatness. That means you do not know how great He is. A tiny factor, you are claiming that "I am God," without having that greatness.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) We can have so many connection with Kṛṣṇa, as friend, as servant, as parents, as lover, whatever you like. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). You cultivate that consciousness, how you like Kṛṣṇa. He is prepared to accept you in that capacity. And that makes a solution of all problems. Here nothing is permanent, nothing is blissful, and nothing is full of knowledge. Here... This year we held examination on bhakti-śāstrī, and here is the answer of a girl, Himavati. She has written very nice. I have read it. So we are training these boys and girls to Kṛṣṇa consciousness according to the Kṛṣṇa science. Anyone can take advantage of it. It is a very nice thing. So you also try to understand, and if it is nice, you take it up. You are after something very nice. Is my proposal unreasonable? (chuckles) You are all intelligent boys. Try to understand it.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, but there the shelter is transcendental bliss. The impersonal Brahman is not transcendental bliss. It is simply eternity. But we want three things: eternity, full knowledge, and blissful life. So there is no bliss.
Devotee (6): Yes. Just as we require shelter because we have the body...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So similarly, this living entity also requires shelter of blissful life. That is this association of Kṛṣṇa. So unless he gets that, he wants blissfulness, but—there is some spiritual blissfulness; he has no information—he comes down again to this perverted blissfulness of this material world.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So you have to understand by the symptoms. What is that symptom? Because you left this world, "This world is false. Brahman is truth," then why you are coming again this false world to open hospital, school, philosophy, humanitarian, all this nonsense? Why you are accepting? If it is false, and if you are in full knowledge, then why you are coming to the false platform? Therefore you are rascal. You rejected this world as false. Then why you are coming down again to the plat..., false platform. That is rascaldom. That means your conclusion was wrong. Hmm. Your conclusion was wrong. Just like Vivekananda and many others, now present, presently there is one Kalabatri(?). Vivekananda was actually rascal. He, he had no knowledge. But the Kalabatri(?) is actually very learned man. He has studied all the Vedas, great Sanskrit scholar, but still, because he did not worship the lotus feet of the Lord, he is also proving rascal. He is now in politics.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because God is the supreme proprietor. See... God is the supreme proprietor and He's the supreme enjoyer and He's the supreme friend. That is the statement in the Bhagavad-gītā. If anyone knows these three things, then he is in full knowledge. These three things only, that God is the proprietor of everything, God is friend of everyone, and God is the enjoyer of everything. Just like the same example, in your body... Everyone knows in the body the stomach is the enjoyer. Not the hands, legs, eyes, ears. They are simply to help the stomach. Eyes, the vulture goes seven miles up to see where is food for the stomach. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: "Every living entity under the spell of material energy is held to be in an abnormal condition of madness. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, 'Generally, the conditioned soul is mad, because he is always engaged in activities which are the causes of bondage and suffering.' The spirit soul in its original condition is joyful, blissful, eternal and full of knowledge, and only by his implication in material activities has he become miserable, temporary and full of ignorance. This is due to vikarma. Vikarma means 'actions which should not be done.' Therefore, we must practice sādhana-bhakti, which means to offer maṅgala-ārati (Deity worship) in the morning, to refrain from certain material activities, to offer obeisances to the spiritual master and to follow many other rules and regulations which will be discussed here, one after another. These practices will help one to become cured of madness.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, this Darwin's theory is there in two lines. (Sanskrit) Asati, asati means eighty. Catura means four, eighty and four lakṣāṇi, lakhs, 400,000. Eighty-four hundred thousand, that means eighty million, four hundred thousand. (Sanskrit) Jīva means living entity; jāti means species. Jīva-jātiṣu, brahmadbhiḥ. The living entity is wandering or transmigrating from aquatics to trees, plants, then insect, then birds, then beasts. In this way the last is human form of life. Brahmadbhiḥ, brahmadbhiḥ, wandering. (Sanskrit), last he is getting (Sanskrit), by the evolution of birth. Now this form is for understanding Govinda, God. The other forms, they cannot. So if in this form the living entity does not contact Govinda... Contacting Govinda means surrendering unto Govinda. As Kṛṣṇa says, "Surrender unto Me." Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So after many, many, many millions of births, when one is actually in full knowledge, he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection. Then he goes back to home, back to Godhead. That is our program, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Human society is... Human life is an opportunity to stop all the problems of material life. So if he does not do so, if he does not understand or take to this business how to solve all the problems of life, then he's missing the opportunity. We are giving very nice idea what is next life, how we can elevate to the topmost spiritual planet, how we can live eternally, peacefully, with full knowledge. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for all these purpose.
Frenchman: In society, the consumer society, (indistinct) miseries, what is the message you can bring people even in this day?
Prabhupāda: Yes. By accepting this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement they will be moralists, they will be religionists, they will be first-class (indistinct), first-class politician, everything perfect by accepting Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: "One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna." So God is there; that's a fact. Anyone can go back to Him and live an eternal life full of bliss and knowledge simply by knowing about it. When God Himself comes, all great ācāryas, stalwart men accept Him: "Yes, He is God." If we simply understand God, we make a solution to all our problems. What is the problem? Because we are part and parcel of God, we are qualitatively equal with Him. God is eternal, and we are eternal. God is blissful, and we are blissful. God is full of knowledge; we are also full of knowledge. Unfortunately we are hampered by this material body. Therefore our problem is how to get out of this material body and come to our spiritual body. The spiritual body is there, just as our real body is present underneath our shirt and coat. I, you, and every one of us is a spiritual spark, part and parcel of God, and we are placed within a gross and subtle body.
Devotee (1): (indistinct) think about the concept of living eternally because this was the teaching of the church that I was going to. And I used to become very frightened at having to go on and on forever because I couldn't imagine what I'd be doing during all that time. I used to try to put some end to it all. Now in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we understand that eternity is filled up with ideal activities and that eternal life is very blissful and full of knowledge. This concept is not there in any other teaching. (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: The scientist says there is no life after death.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, they do not know that. They do not say also, they do not know that. They do not say that there is not life after death because they do not know.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is called Brahman. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The animal life the subject matter, a small animal, he's concerned where to eat, where to sleep, where to find my food, shelter. This is their business, no other business. They're not concerned with the biggest thing. But this human form of life is to inquire about the biggest. That includes everything. So next code is: Janmādyasya yataḥ. That biggest thing is the original source of everything, wherefrom everything has come. How to know that? Śāstra-yonitvāt. You have to learn it from the Vedas. In this way, sūtras are given, one after another. What is the nature of that thing? Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). In this way, all codes are there. And go on, searching, one after another, you get full knowledge of the greatest, Absolute Truth. This is Vedānta. What is that ship?
Prabhupāda: That is scientist. But you haven't got that. But why you...? You are punishable. Just like if somebody is not a bona fide medical practitioner, but he gives: "Doctor M.D.," he's punishable. There are so many bogus. They are not detected. But if they are detected, they are punishable. If you say that: "Yes, I am a student, I am not a scientist, I have no full knowledge," that is right. You have no perfect knowledge. Still you say "There is no God." How is that? You have no perfect knowledge. How do you say there is no God. Eh? They say there is no God.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So if they admit they have no perfect knowledge, how they can say there is no God, or there is God? They cannot say.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are very doubtful.
Prabhupāda: They know. Because they have full knowledge, "He knows here is God. Although he is four-handed, I am four-handed, but here is God." Because there is full knowledge. That is the difference. Here we are selecting some rascal as God, because we have no full knowledge. There, in the Vaikuṇṭha planets, although the common citizens and God is of the same feature of the bodily, but they know, "Here is God, the Supreme." He has got special signs in the... Yes, that's all. Just like the king or the president, we may make mistake. We may accept somebody as "Here is president." No. But the associates of the president, he knows. They know that "Here is president." Similarly, there is no question of mistake there. Four kinds of defects of material life—to commit mistake, to become illusioned, to cheat, and imperfection of the senses—these things are not there. Everyone's senses are perfect. When he sees God, he sees perfectly. He does not mistake. He is not illusioned. And there is no cheating and there is no imperfection of the senses. There is no mistake. These are spiritual life.
Revatīnandana: So many persons can make an artificial flower that's not as nice as that one, but they cannot reproduce that. And then we say that Kṛṣṇa is the Personality of Godhead, who is full of knowledge, full of beauty, full of power. With full knowledge, beauty and power...
Prabhupāda: Because He has got full knowledge, He knows how to... Now, this flower has come from earth, and other flower has come also from the earth. But the fragrance is within the earth. But you cannot take the fragrance from the earth. You do not know. But Kṛṣṇa is taking. Just see. Therefore His knowledge is perfect. Omnipotent, omniscient. He knows how to take. He knows the process. So many flowers are coming.
Revatīnandana: Then, when you can see a flower in this consciousness, then you can see Kṛṣṇa. Through that flower Kṛṣṇa is smiling at you. He is offering, He is smiling at you through that flower, and He is there, smiling.
Prabhupāda: Few. God is the source of everything. The vast water has come from the body of God. Just like from your body a little quantity of water comes out, perspiring. Does it not? So we are limited. So one ounce, two ounce, we can produce. But God is unlimited. He can produce by perspiration millions of oceans. This is our understanding. God is unlimited; we are limited. We are also producing so many things through our body. Similarly, God is unlimited. His body has got unlimited potency. So everything comes from the body of God. This is our simple understanding. God is the origin of everything.
- ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo
- mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate
- iti matvā bhajante māṁ
- budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ
- (BG 10.8)
One who understands this philosophy, he becomes a devotee. Budha. He's in full knowledge. This is from our tree? No.
Revatīnandana: That I understand. The question is suppose this yogi, he has not got full knowledge, he does not know of Kṛṣṇa, and therefore he is meditating on Paramātmā, and he attains Vaikuṇṭha. Is it possible that because he hadn't got full knowledge...
Prabhupāda: No, he has to go, simply by Paramātmā conception, he cannot go to Vaikuṇṭha.
Revatīnandana: Can he later go on from Vaikuṇṭha to Goloka? Can that happen also?
Prabhupāda: Yes, there is such instances, can go.
Revatīnandana: But if a devotee knows Kṛṣṇa, if he knows of Kṛṣṇa, then wherever he is destined, he will go perfectly to his perfect position. Just like Bhīṣma knew Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: Mad-yājino yānti mām. Kṛṣṇa devotees, they go directly, especially those who are worshiping Kṛṣṇa through Caitanya Mahāprabhu. They directly go to Kṛṣṇaloka.
Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa... He understood Kṛṣṇa as Nārāyaṇa. He will go to Vaikuṇṭha, Bhīṣmadeva.
Revatīnandana: But he had full knowledge of everything as a mahājana. He knew also...
Prabhupāda: But he loved Nārāyaṇa, Catur-bhuja.
Revatīnandana: Yes, that was his constitutional position. That's all right.
Prabhupāda: Just like sometimes mādhurya-rasa is the greatest humor...
Revatīnandana: Who?
Prabhupāda: Mādhurya-rasa, conjugal love. But still, there are devotees who prefer parental love, friendly love. That is liking. Everyone has got his own liking. But they are all the same, all the same. There is no difference between Kṛṣṇa devotee and Nārāyaṇa devotee. They are all the... But it is their liking, varieties of liking.
Revatīnandana: ...and full of knowledge.
Sir Alistair Hardy: Yes.
Mukunda: Actually, it's not that we're studying the past, but we study a principle called dharma which means that principle of life which never changes.
Sir Alistair Hardy: Yes.
Mukunda: That's our main concern.
Sir Alistair Hardy: Well, I'd very much like to have records of experience, accounts of present-day experience. Although as I say, at the moment I'm rather tending to concentrate on the western. I'm hoping to get scholars who are really Sanskrit scholars and those people who can really understand the language of oriental affairs.
Prabhupāda: No, first thing is: this, this is a different science. Science of God is not material science. Simply material, academic career will not help.
Prabhupāda: So work is required. But godly persons, they want to live a simple life and high thinking, save time for understanding of God. The demonic people, they are engaged in horrible activities. They have manufactured so many things. So in this way... There are so many descriptions. Actually, by the increase of demoniac people, people are not very happy, and they are missing the ultimate goal of life. That is the defect of the modern civilization. They do not believe that there is an ultimate goal of life, there is life after death, and what kind of body he's going to get next. These things are not, neither in the university education curriculum, neither people are interested. So at the present moment... This is called Kali-yuga. So people are being misled. Actually, the human being, the form of human life, is distinct from animal life. So if we live like animals, then we are missing the chance. At the present moment, this is the position. So we are preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement strictly on the basis of this Bhagavad-gītā. In the Bhagavad-gītā, there is everything explained. So if people take to it, if people are educated, then things will change in a different way. They'll be happy and they will be peaceful, nice. And above, over and above them, they will have next life very blissful, full of knowledge, and eternal.
Prabhupāda: Then he's God. Can you find out any, so many gods, who has no greater than him, or equal to him? You are claiming You are God, I am also claiming, God. Then we are equal. Then how you can be God or how I can be God? We are equals. As soon as you find there are equals, or as soon as find there is greater, then you are not God. God—the great. He must be greater than everyone. Therefore śāstra has concluded, īśvara, God; parama, the Supreme; Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). And why? Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). His body is sat, cit, sac-cid-ānanda. Now you test. Your body's not sac-cid-ānanda. Sat means eternal, cit means full of knowledge, ānanda means full of bliss. Is, is my body sac-cid-ānanda, this body? No. It is not eternal. It is full of ignorance. It is full of miseries. Then how it can be God? So God, there cannot be many Gods. Many gods, that is not many, that is one. Just like you have got millions of photographs. That does not mean you are million.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yasmin vijñāte sarvam etaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. This is also Upaniṣad. Yasmin vijñāte. If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, then sarvam eva vijñātaṁ bhavanti. Then you have got full knowledge. And that is also stated in the Fourth Chapter. Janma karma me divyam yo janāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti... (BG 4.9). He becomes immediately liberated. Simply if you understand Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa, tattvataḥ, in truth, then you are, your business is finished.
Mr. Sar: Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3).
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mr. Sar: Yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ (BG 7.3).
Prabhupāda: Yes, to understand Kṛṣṇa is not so easy job. First of all, so many millions and millions of living entities are there. They are not interested. They are just like animals: "Eat, drink, be merry and enjoy." Nobody's interested what is the success of life, siddhi. They do not know. They think, "If I..."
Prabhupāda: Yes, "Because he has accepted Me after full knowledge, nobody can defeat him. Therefore he is My ātmā." Especially.
Dr. Patel: So jñānīs a...
Mr. Sar: Āsthito...
Prabhupāda: Jñānī means one who can defend by knowledge Kṛṣṇa's identity. That is jñānī.
Mr. Sar: Or he's āsthitaḥ...
Dr. Patel: "Perpetually welded with Me."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mr. Sar: Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). (laughter)
Prabhupāda: And the so-called jñānavān, they'll take many, many, many births.
Mr. Sar: So-called, so-called, yes, so-called.
Prabhupāda: Yes. His physiognomy is sac-cid-ānanda vigraha (Bs. 5.1). That we can understand. Sac-cid-ānanda. He is eternal, He is full of knowledge and He is blissful. Sac-cid-ānanda. Your body, my body, is just opposite. It is not eternal, it is temporary. And it is full of ignorance. Therefore we require knowledge. (aside:) Little away, yes. So this is full of ignorance, and there are so many miseries. So Kṛṣṇa hasn't got a body like this. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's body is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha. So we can distinguish what is Kṛṣṇa's body and what is our body. (break) ...understand. Try to understand, that what is the nature... That is called spiritual body. So we have got also similar body, but very small, very small. That is covered by this material body. And because in the spiritual body I am person, I have got form, therefore the material elements have taken a form. Just like when your coat is made, it is made according to your body. Because you have got hands, so the coat has got a hand. But the hand of the coat is not real. The real hand is within the coat. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Within. These foolish people, they do not understand.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Anthropomorphism it is called. They create a form, but that is not the fact. God has His eternal form. That I explained. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1). Vigraha means form. And it is sac-cid-ānanda, means eternal, full of knowledge and... Just like Kṛṣṇa is speaking Bhagavad-gītā. People are accepting, because that is real knowledge. And nobody reads other books so carefully. And this Bhagavad-gītā is read all over the world. All big, big scholars, big, big philosophers, theologists, they read. Because that is real knowledge. That is the proof. It is real knowledge. Cit. Sac-cid. And one who is giving real knowledge, it is natural conclusion, he has got eternal body. We cannot give real knowledge because we forget. As we change our body, we forget. Just like at night we dream, but we forget the body, this body. In another body we go to some dreamland. So because we change body therefore we forget. And because Kṛṣṇa is giving knowledge perfect, past, present and future, therefore it means that He has got eternal body. This is the proof. One should understand everything with logic. Is it not? We forget because we have no eternal body.
Prabhupāda: No, no, heart or not heart. Your heart or not heart, but Kṛṣṇa's position is like that. He has got eternal body. He is blissful, because there is no miseries. Temporary body means there is misery, so many miseries. At least these four miseries, birth, death, old age and disease. So eternal body has no such miseries. Therefore it is blissful. Therefore it is full of knowledge. As soon as you get your eternal body, which is already there within this temporary body, then you also become blissful and full of knowledge. That is oneness. One in quality. Kṛṣṇa has got this body, eternal, blissful, full of knowledge. So when you get this body, then you are becoming equal in quality, not in quantity. Your question is answered?
Italian Man (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: If you have got any doubt, you can still ask.
Prabhupāda: No, no, if there is doubt, if there is doubt, why shall I accept a person who is doubtful? Why not accept a person who is without doubt? Kṛṣṇa is accepted the Supreme Personality of Godhead by all ācāryas. All ācāryas. So why not accept Kṛṣṇa? Why imitation Kṛṣṇa? This Kṛṣṇa, that Kṛṣṇa, dini-Kṛṣṇa. That is our protest. You accept Kṛṣṇa and be led by Him. The path is clear. (break) ...simply advertising that "You are searching after some leader. Take this leader, Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. "We have taken. You also take." We don't say anybody else, no. We are fools. We do not know if there is anybody. So we are fools. Let us remain like a fool like that and follow Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We don't say that "I have got eyes, I have got full knowledge." No, we don't say that. Kṛṣṇa says. That's all. This is our version. We request that "You take Kṛṣṇa. You will be benefited." And actually it is being done.
Prabhupāda: So people know and has got some idea of the ghost, but they have no descriptive idea. Here is a descriptive idea. That is śāstra. Just like less than the śūdras, it is called pañcamas. How many pañcamas are there, that is described in the Bhāgavata. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanaḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). That is śāstra. Gives full explanation, full knowledge. Śāstra cakṣuṣā. We have to accept through the śāstra. Not that "Because I have not seen, therefore it is false." No. Vyāsadeva has no business to tell you something false. Otherwise he would not have been accepted as the supreme guru by all the sampradāyas. You cannot defy Vyāsadeva. He is saying, you have to accept. "I have seen. I have no experience," that doesn't matter. So many things you do not know. Just like a child has no experience what is the other side of the sea. Does it mean that there is nothing?
Prabhupāda: This includes not only Kṛṣṇa, but His different plenary expansions such as Rāma and Nārāyaṇa. He has innumerable expansions. One who is engaged in the service of any of the forms of Kṛṣṇa, or of His plenary expansions, is considered to be transcendentally situated. One should also note that all the forms of Kṛṣṇa are fully transcendental, blissful, full of knowledge and eternal. Such personalities of Godhead are omnipotent and omniscient, and they possess all transcendental qualities. So, if one engages himself in the service of Kṛṣṇa or His plenary expansions with unfailing determination, although these modes of material nature are very difficult to overcome, he can overcome them easily. This is already explained in the Seventh Chapter. One who surrenders unto Kṛṣṇa at once surmounts the influence of the modes of material nature. To be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness or in devotional service means to acquire the equality of Kṛṣṇa. The Lord says that His nature is eternal, blissful and full of knowledge, and the living entities are part and parcel of the Supreme, as gold particles are part of a gold mine. Thus the living entity's spiritual position is as good as gold, as good as Kṛṣṇa in quality.
Prabhupāda: He is confused because he was a kṣatriya, soldier. A soldier's duty is to fight with the enemy. So Kṛṣṇa was advising him, "The opposite party is your enemy. You are a kṣatriya. Why you are trying to become non-violent? This is not good." Therefore he says, "Actually I am now confused. So in confusion I cannot take the right conclusion. I therefore accept You as my spiritual master. You just give me the proper lesson." This is the point. So they were friends. Still, he was confused. So in chaotic condition, in confusion status of life, we must approach the person who is in full knowledge of the things. Just like you go to a lawyer, you go to a physician; similarly, every one of us in the material world, we are confused. Therefore we must go to the spiritual master who can give us real knowledge.
Prabhupāda: At the present moment there is all over the world... We are touring all over the world. It is very hard to find out ideal class of men. That is the defect. In the Vedic culture the ideal class of men were the brāhmaṇas. Their qualification was: truthful, self-controlled, mind and the senses, and then tolerant, very simple life, full of knowledge, practical application of knowledge in life and full faith in God. These are ideal character. But such men are not available at the present moment. So therefore the social idealism is defective. Just like in your body, there are four divisions. The head, the arm, the belly and the leg. If the head is spoiled then you are a madman. In spite of possessing hands and bellies and legs, you cannot work properly. So at the present moment the heads are spoiled. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. People, advanced in education, still they are inimical, one man to another. If you are passing on in the street, the gentleman's house there is a signboard, "Beware of the dogs. Don't come in," because he cannot believe anyone. You go to the airport, any high-class standard man. They search out the pocket.
Prabhupāda: I think so. Yes. So where is the satisfaction? He wants something. That is... That is not possible. When there is full knowledge, one can be satisfied on knowledge, not by this artificial means. That is not possible. So actually the whole world is suffering for want of knowledge. So we are giving that knowledge. We are satisfying everyone. We are giving the knowledge.
Haihaya: And we are feeding too.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Well, that is secondary. That is secondary.
Dhanañjaya: But their philosophy is first you feed them; then give them knowledge,
Prabhupāda: But why...? You cannot feed even. Just like I wanted rice, I wanted fruit. You could not give me. So why do you claim that you can feed everyone? That you cannot. You are falsely claiming. If you think that simply supplying meat, everyone will be satisfied, that is your nonsense.
Prabhupāda: Those who are expert, or sufficient, insufficient knowledge, they cannot understand the Supreme Absolute. That is also confirmed, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19) "After many, many births, when one is actually in full knowledge, he can understand Kṛṣṇa and surrenders unto Him." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). So Vedas and scriptures are there, differently, according to different conditions. Now, what Jesus Christ was teaching the people? You can understand. The first injunction is "Thou shalt not kill." So what class of men they were, just you can understand. Otherwise, why he is first of all telling "Thou shalt not kill"? The Mohammed also said, "From this day, there is no sex with your mother." So just see what class of men. So according to class of men, there should be teaching. Similarly, Buddha also, Lord Buddha said, "No, no, there is no God. Just try to understand me. You obey Me." "Yes, sir." It has to be done like that.
Prof. Regamay: Still, there are two questions I have which remain. One is quite a small question. I have read in your commentary to the chastisement of Droṇa, killing of Droṇa, and where it was that violence for a right cause is better than the so-called nonviolence. Now I wanted to ask, for instance, to find that nonviolence or like Gandhi, it was wrong...
Prabhupāda: So? Do you agree or not? (laughter) We welcome scientific knowledge. We don't say that scientific knowledge should be stopped, but it should be utilized to glorify the Lord. Then it is perfect. Otherwise useless. Means you don't get perfection. Perfection is when you scientifically describe the existence of God and His different energies, how they are working. And that is scientist, real scientist. Otherwise, theories, you can give your theory, I'll give you a theory... Temporary. That's all. So everything is there in Bhāgavatam, all knowledge, full knowledge. Vidvān bhāgavata-vādī. So vidvān means, vidvān means one who has learned Bhāgavata, Bhāgavatam nicely. He's vidvān, factually. So you do not read all these things?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Or Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is great. So I am talking of what Kṛṣṇa has said. Therefore I am great, I am knowing everything. It is not that I know everything. I do not know anything, but I, I am surrendered to a person who knows everything. Therefore I know everything. I take my knowledge from Him. So you should think how much knowledge you have assimilated. The knowledge is there, guru-kṛṣṇa. Guru is there. Kṛṣṇa is there. So we have to take advantage of guru and Kṛṣṇa, sad-dharma-pṛcchā, ask him, and become man of knowledge. Then you can say. If you simply think that "I have my guru, and there is Kṛṣṇa. Now I am perfect," no. You should ask and know. You must be man of knowledge. Then you can say, "Yes, I know everything." Dīkṣā. Dīkṣā, initiation, dīkṣā, this Sanskrit word, dīkṣā, means divya-jñānaṁ kṣipayati. To ask from spiritual master with service and surrender the transcendental knowledge. The more you ask, you become a man of knowledge. Then you can challenge, "Yes, I know everything." Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare... Actually, we know everything. Just like when I speak, I immediately ask reference from Bhagavad-gītā, and we stop the man's argument. So if you become well-conversed with the whole Bhagavad-gītā, then you have full knowledge. There is no need of saying that "I do not know." You'll become full knowledge, man of knowledge. But you must study. Who is this man?
Prabhupāda: Now first of all, let us understand what is God. Then prayer. If you do not understand God, then what you'll prayer? If we understand that there is the active principle, then the prayer we have already described, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayāt itarataś cārtheṣu abhijñaḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "I pray to the Supreme Personality of Godhead Vāsudeva who is the origin of all creation." This is the active principle. There is. So... And how He is working? (To Jyotirmayī:) You have to explain. (French) In the beginning of Bhāgavatam, I offering the prayer. So the process is that I offer my all respect to the Absolute Truth, Supreme Truth, from whom the creation has taken place, everything is resting, working nicely, and after annihilation, it will go there. And when you study what is the nature of the original source, it is said, abhijñaḥ, cognizant. He knows everything. Just like I am the owner of this body, I, the soul, but still, I do not know how the body is working. I am eating, but I do not know how my eatables transformed into secretion, then goes to the heart, then... Of course, they have discovered something, but not fully. So I do not know what is going in within my body. I do not know how many hairs are there. But God knows everything, nook and corner of the whole universe. But if we compare ourself with God, that is impossible, because naturally we get knowledge from others, we may question, "Wherefrom God got knowledge?" Therefore it is stated there, svarāṭ. He hasn't got to take knowledge from anyone else. He's independently full of knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It doesn't matter whether it is Christianity or Hinduism or Muslim or... Knowledge is knowledge. Wherever knowledge is available, you must pick up. So knowledge... Now let us explain, that knowledge has no color. Knowledge is knowledge. It doesn't matter whether Christianism or Hinduism or Mohammedan. Now, this is a knowledge, that every living entity is imprisoned within this body. This knowledge is equally good for Hindus, Muslim, Christian or everyone. There is no question of Christianism or Hinduism. The soul is imprisoned within this body, and the problem is birth, death, old age and disease on account of this body. But we want to live eternally, we want full knowledge; we want full blissfulness. To attain that goal of life, we must get out of this body. This is the process.
Prabhupāda: (Sanskrit) He is not poet. Poet means he must have full knowledge. Then if he writes poetry, that will be beneficial. The rascal's poetry, just like in your country, one line, three lines, one line. This is rascaldom; it is not poetry. (aside:) You should not show your feet before the Deity. That is possible only in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We teach our men to address his fellow man as prabhu: "You are master, I am servant." In the material world, everyone is trying to become master; nobody is trying to become servant. And we are teaching that you try to become servant. Just the opposite. Nobody will agree. Therefore, they say the Vaiṣṇava religion is slave mentality. They say. They do not know that it is success of life to become slave of Kṛṣṇa. They do not know. Who has become happy trying to become master? (indistinct)
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, they are cheater. They are cheater, not teacher, cheater. They have no full knowledge; still, they have become teacher. You cannot become teacher unless you have got full knowledge. That is cheater.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, suppose that they acknowledge the fact that they do not know, but they challenge, "How do you know what you believe is right?"
Prabhupāda: Because I have approached the Supreme, the supreme brain, Kṛṣṇa. He is the perfect person in knowledge. Aiśvaryasya, jñāna. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26). He knows everything. He is conducting nature. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ suyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kālacakro. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). So we know from the perfect. Therefore my knowledge is perfect. I am not perfect; that's a fact. But my knowledge is perfect. Just like I am not an electrician. But the electrician has told me that "You push this button. There will be light." So I am doing that. What is the use of becoming electrician? I want light, and the electrician told me, "Just push this button." I am doing that, and light is there. That's all. You cannot say, "You are not a electrician.
Rūpānuga: Sceptic can actually not have full knowledge, he can never have full knowledge.
Prabhupāda: No.
Devotee (1): The scientists, they cannot understand the (indistinct), they can understand what is the relationship between the world of ideas, the world of names, and the world that they see. How can we explain what that means?
Prabhupāda: There is spiritual and material. The material is simply a phantasmagoria. It is the imitation of the reality. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, fifteenth chapter, find out. Ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākham (BG 15.1). That is called mirage. In the desert the animal is finding water. There is no water in the desert. But there is water, but not in the desert. That they do not know. So this is just like desert, this material world and everything is reflection like the water. But desert there is no water, it is only reflection. Tejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ vinimayo yatra tri-sargo 'mṛṣā.
Prabhupāda: Difficulty is not there, but we have to understand from teacher. Just like the many subject of knowledge we do not understand in the beginning, but by hearing from the teacher, gradually we understand. So that teacher must be perfect, in full knowledge, and then we can understand from him. So we accept Kṛṣṇa. Because He is God, He is perfect. So we receive knowledge from Him, and that is Bhagavad-gītā. So knowledge from Kṛṣṇa or His pure servant, both of them are equal. They can give us that knowledge.
Young man: I'd like to know the relation...
Prabhupāda: Paramahaṁsa? Bring those ice. Put. That's all. Hm?
Young man: I'd like to know the relation between Viṣṇu and Kṛṣṇa, how Viṣṇu became Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: What is that? Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). "My dear Dhanañjaya, Arjuna, there is no more superior truth than Me." So if we accept that, either you say blindly or conscientiously, then that is perfection. Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19) "After many, many births of philosophical speculation, when one actually becomes wise, jñānī, jñānavān, full of knowledge, then the result is māṁ prapadyate: he surrenders unto Me." Why surrender? Now, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19)—he understands that Kṛṣṇa is everything. Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ: "Such mahātmā is very rare." That I was... we were discussing that there are so many religious system in the world, but hardly they have got any clear conception of God. I have asked so many gentlemen belonging to different types of religion that "What is the clear conception of God?" So may I ask you also what is the clear conception of God?
Prabhupāda: Eskimos. Is that very good living? Just see. They won't come here. This is māyā. This is māyā. Āvaraṇātmikā-śakti. They, he's living in hell but māyā is covering: "No, it is not hell; it is heaven." This is māyā. Similarly all of us, we are living in this universe, material universe. We are thinking "This is all good. What is the use of God and going back to home, back to Godhead?" They do not take it very seriously. Although we give all information that "You'll haven't, you haven't got to work there. You'll get everything. Your life is eternal and blissful, and full of knowledge," they are not interested. Plugged.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Plugged.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Plugged ear, er, ears, yes. "You go on speaking, but I have plugged my ear." (laughter)
Prabhupāda: It is not scientific. It is all rascaldom. What you are giving, that is not science, that is rascaldom. Why shall I accept it is scientific? Because you have no full knowledge. What you are giving, it is simply rascaldom. Jaya. (Bengali)
Indian: (Bengali)
Nalinī-kānta: So we say that one should live very simply, produce his own food, and chant.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then avoid all problems.
Nalinī-kānta: So if we are given charge of the society, we should dismantle all this industry, all these cities...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore knowledge. Why do you not like to die? Because you are eternal. Therefore ātmā's nature is eternal, full of knowledge, and full of bliss. This is knowledge. Sat cit ānanda. Do you know Sanskrit?
Kim: No, but some words.
Prabhupāda: That is ātmā's nature. Sat cit ānanda. Eternal, full of knowledge, and blissful.
Kim: A question. Is there, is it the ātman...
Prabhupāda: Just hear.
Prabhupāda: So, by nature's way, evolution, we come through 800 millions of forms of life, then nature gives us a chance to accept this human form of body. In this body, our consciousness being advanced, if we try we can understand what is the problem of life, why we have accepted birth, death, old age and disease, how to get out of these, how to revive our original nature of body and again become eternal, full of knowledge and bliss. This is the chance of the human body. Therefore you are a philosopher because you are in the human body, but a dog cannot be a philosopher. He may be a very big dog, can bark very loudly, he has got very good strength, can create big disturbance, but he cannot understand philosophy. That is not possible. But a human being can understand. Therefore he should be given chance to understand the philosophy of life. And that is Vedas.
Prabhupāda: At least one class of men must be thoroughly conversant, thoroughly aware of the things as they are. They are called brāhmaṇas. Therefore the society should be divided into four classes. The first-class men, who have got full knowledge of life and the problems of life... That there should be, the first-class men. They may be very few; it doesn't matter. Ideal class. People will learn by their behavior, by their character, by their knowledge. So must be there. Then the next class would be the administrators. They would be advised by the first-class men, and they would administer the state. And the third-class men, they should produce food, enough food for the whole population. And the fourth-class men would assist these three higher class, first class, second class and third class. This is the arrangement, nature's arrangement. There are first-class men; there are second-class men; there are third-class men; there are fourth-class men. But if you produce simply fourth-class men, there cannot be any adjustment.
Amogha: "Jñānam-wisdom."
Prabhupāda: Yes, full knowledge.
Amogha: "Vijñānam-..."
Prabhupāda: Vijñānam means practical application. If one believes God, Kṛṣṇa, and if he believes that Kṛṣṇa is giving food to everyone, even to the elephant and to the ant, then why shall I bother for my food? He must give me. If He is supplying food in the jungle, so many animals, and the elephant eats at a time forty k.g. foodstuff, and the ant within the hole of your room, he is also there. The lizard is there, the rat is there, the snake(?) is there. So Kṛṣṇa is supplying food to everyone. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That is God. He is supplying the necessities of life to everyone. So what I have done that He will not give me food? And I am engaged my life for His service. If I have no such confidence, then where is Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Why shall I flatter others for my food? So this is brāhmaṇa's... "I must have full confidence in Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Then that spiritual master is Kṛṣṇa Himself. There is no need of education. Everyone is free. Everyone is full knowledge. There is no need of spiritual master.
Devotee 8: Śrīla Prabhupāda, many people who live outside the temple have Jagannātha Deities and Gaura-Nitāi Deities.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Devotee 8: Śrīla Prabhupāda, many people who live outside the temple have Jagannātha Deities and...
Prabhupāda: Better Gaura-Nitāi Deities.
Devotee 8: Huh?
Prabhupāda: Better Gaura-Nitāi.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no more init... Initiation here required when the living entity is in darkness. Just like uneducated person requires to go to school. One who is educated, in his full knowledge, he doesn't go.
Madhudviṣa: The question was, Prabhupāda, is it possible for a person to return to the spiritual world without taking initiation from a bona fide spiritual master?
Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible. Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī said, ā dau gurv-āśrayam. First business is to accept spiritual master. Ā dau gurv-āśrayam. Who will train him? He is already fool, rascal. He must be trained up. So he must be trained up by the representative of Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee 9: Is second initiation necessary, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Second or first only.
Devotee 1: Everyone is in full knowledge. In the material world everyone is in darkness.
Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda! Hari bol! Hari bol! (break)
Devotee 1: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it appears that there is a group of persons here in Australia who think, judging from the different questions that are being asked, they are thinking that it is not required to formally accept...
Prabhupāda: There are so many rascal swamis come. They say like that, "There is no need of guru."
Devotee 1: Yeah, right. They think that Kṛṣṇa is in the heart and you can accept initiation by that way.
Prabhupāda: You do not know where to find out Kṛṣṇa in the heart.
Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's... What Kṛṣṇa says, that is written in the Bhagavad-gītā. Why don't you take it, Bhagavad-gītā, that instruction? What is wrong there? Every problem is solved there. Now, so far economic... Now the question is economic. So Kṛṣṇa says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). So where is the objection? Produce food grain, and both animal and man will be happy. So who will disagree with this point? Follow this. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Kṛṣṇa says first. This is economic. Social—Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). The human society should be divided into four classes according to quality and work. So four classes there are. First class, intelligent class; the second class, the administrators; the third class, the mercantile; and the fourth class, who are not within these three class. That is going on. Now make it systematic. The first-class man... Who is a first-class man? Then... Find out. Satya śamo damaḥ titikṣa ārjavaḥ, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). Train first-class men. He must be truthful. He must be self-controlled, controlling the mind, controlling the senses. He must have full knowledge of the whole world, jñānaṁ vijñānam, practical application. So where is the question of that "I am Sikh," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim..."
Prabhupāda: Huh? No, no. He's giving full knowledge of the universal affairs. He also says at the end that "I have described whatever I have heard." That's all.
Harikeśa: So we should simply describe it without being concerned that the scientific mind may make sense out of it or not?
Prabhupāda: What is this nonsense scientific? That is... We reject immediately. What is scientific? A tiny brain, what is their science? Phene bare dhake nate ute. A snake catcher... There is a kind of snake which has no poison. So he cannot catch even that non-poisonous snake, and he's trying to catch one cobra. So these scientists, what is their value? What they have done anything contribution to the world for the benefit of the human society? They could not give any relief from the disease, relief from old age, relief from death or birth. These are the real problems. So what is their contribution? They have given some horseless carriage. Again there is problem of power. What is actually benefit they have done, that this is the benefit from the scientists? Anything they have done, there is counter disadvantage. This is simply waste of time. Our... We consider our human life is very valuable, and before the next death we should prepare ourself go back to home, back to Godhead. This is our philosophy.
Dr. Judah: Yes. Well, they have tried to give descriptions, but, of course, I think all descriptions that have been given of God are, as descriptions are inadequate. Because in my own feeling I believe that the full knowledge of God comes through the actual experience of God, experiencing God in our lives.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that experience you can get. Just like God is describing Himself. Now, why don't you take that? Your description may be defective because you are imperfect. But if God Himself is giving His, I mean to say, identification, why don't you take it? Not only gives description, He acts according to the description. When Kṛṣṇa was present, He says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7), "There is no more superior element." He proved it when He was present. There was no more superior power than Him when Kṛṣṇa was present. In His opulence, in His richness, in His strength, in His education—everything, all topmost, Kṛṣṇa. All topmost. The proof is that because you get the topmost knowledge, therefore Bhagavad-gītā is read all over the world, accepted, topmost knowledge. All scholars, all philosophers, all religionists, they read it.
Prabhupāda: So they were habituated to all... Because that is a system in the European, American life. But now they are free. That is Professor Judah's remark in his letter. Have you got that? Yes. He has written one book, Hare Kṛṣṇa and Counterculture, about our movement. He has read all our books. Here are, you have shown all these books? So he appreciates, many gentlemen appreciate, even the priestly class, they also appreciate. So this is a movement which is trying to create at least a section to become first-class. The first-class man does not mean that he is nicely dressed or very rich or very opulent. Generally, of course, a first-class man means good parentage, good education, good looking and nicely rich. That is the standard. But... That may be first-class position, but first-class man is different. First-class man means he is self-controlled, in the mind he is undisturbed, he is truthful, he is very clean, inside and outside, he is very simple, tolerant, full of knowledge, practical application of knowledge, and believe in God.
Prabhupāda: We want to raise first-class man. Try to understand. The present society, we are creating fourth-class men. Therefore we are not in very happy condition. We want to raise the fourth-class man to first-class man. First-class man means with qualification who can control the mind, control the senses, always very cleansed and truthful, very simple, full of all kinds of knowledge, practical application in life, then to have full knowledge of God, these are the characteristics of first-class man. So at the present moment everyone is a fourth-class man. So we want to get some first-class men. That is required. Because there is no idea, first-class man, therefore people are becoming full of crimes. You have seen the article in the Time? "Crime, Why and What to Do?" That is the concern of the materialistic society. So we are trying to raise a group of men who will be ideal. Just like our devotees. You will find their characters different from all others, at least in your country. They do not have illicit sex, they do not eat meat, they do not have any intoxication, even smoking or taking tea, they do not indulge in gambling, they chant holy name of God, lead very simple life. So we are creating first-class men.
Prabhupāda: This is first-class. Now śamo damaḥ... Śamaḥ means controlling the mind, mind is always peaceful. You can train. Then controlling the senses. Then truthful. Then full of knowledge, practical application of knowledge in life. These are the qualification of first-class man. Everything is there. If you train a boy to become first-class man, he can become first-class man. If you don't train, then he will become a debauch, criminal, disturbing. So we are training in the Gurukula to become first-class men. This is our aim. Unless in the society an ideal first-class man, then how one will become, or follow the ideal? There is no ideal. Now what is the idea of first-class man now? Can I ask you? What is your idea of first-class man? Whom do you call first-class man?
Prabhupāda: (aside:) What is the nonsense? You are all nonsense. First-class man, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that he should first of all try to..., not try, practice how to control the mind, how to control the senses. Then he must be truthful. He must be very clean, outside and inside. He must be very simple. He must be tolerant. He must be full of knowledge. He must apply knowledge in practical life. And he must believe in God. These are the qualification of the first-class man.
Reporter (2): Once a person is trained in one of the classes, can he move to another class once he's been trained as, say, a third-class man?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Any class man, you can train him. It requires training. Even one is in the last-class, fourth-class, fifth-class, sixth-class, if he likes he can be trained up to become a first-class man.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Vairāgya. That is required. That is civilization. Vairāgya and jñāna. Jñāna-vairāgya, knowledge and renunciation, or detachment, this is the goal of human life. Because he is attached to this material world, he has to take birth after birth, birth after birth. So to save this botheration, one has to be detached. This is the basic principle of Vedic civilization, jñāna-vairāgya. And detachment is possible when one is in full knowledge, jñāna. And this bhakti-yoga process is detachment. Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam (CC Madhya 6.254). So it is a civilization of detachment, not attachment.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That detachment is a form of wealth for the renounced order.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the gain of human life. Arthadam. This is meaning. Artha means meaning. Arthadam. Durlābhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam. This human life, form of life, is very, very rare. So one can say, "You will also die like cats and dog. How it is rare?" No, yes, adhruvam arthadam: "Although it is temporary, it will not stay, but you can have meaning of life." Adhruvam arthadam. Everything is there.
Prabhupāda: Then he maintains his first-class brain, first-class position. So there is first-class man. Now we have to train them properly how to become controller of the mind, how to become controller of the senses, how to become truthful, how to become cleansed internally, externally, how to become full of knowledge, how to try to apply the knowledge in practical life, how to become God conscious. This training is... A first-class man can take up, just like they are taking, all these boys. They had their first-class brain, and now they are being trained up. That is required, trained up first-class men. That training is required. So we are not introducing caste system, that any rascal born in a brāhmaṇa family, he becomes a brāhmaṇa. We don't accept that. A man who is first-class trained up to become a brāhmaṇa, we accept him. It doesn't matter whether he is India or Europe or America. It doesn't matter. We are trying to introduce this system.
Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, modern philosophy is teaching that the forces of greed and lust and these things are greater than man, that actually... This concept that we are eternal, full of knowledge and bliss, they cannot accept that or understand that. They're thinking that the powers of evil are much greater, and we're just controlled by these things.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are fools. When a man's lusty desire is very strong, he commits, what is called, rape, and he becomes complicated in criminal activities. Kāma eṣa krodha eṣa rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ. Why one is forced to do that? The cause is lusty desires, anger, greediness. So we are thinking we are master of this material world, but actually you are servant of these desires, kāma, krodha, lobha, mohaḥ. And that is māyā. He is acting as servant, but he's thinking, "I am master." That is māyā, which is not the fact. Just like yesterday we were discussing that the women, they are acting as instrument of men, and they are thinking, "We have equal rights." A man is utilizing her for his own purpose, and she is thinking "I am equal."
Prabhupāda: Then that you have to admit that you are conditioned by some authority. When you are put into jail, you cannot act independently. You have to act according to the jail superintendent's order.
Devotee (3): Prabhupāda, is our desire to be eternal, blissful and full of knowledge...
Prabhupāda: Now let me finish. You will never be able to understand if you jump over like that. Let one thing be understood.
Devotee (4): So he admits he's conditioned, but still, there's no free will. He says, "Yeah, so I'm in the prison. I'm imprisoned. I'm conditioned."
Prabhupāda: This is not education. Vidyā dadhāti namratā. Educated means he is humble, gentle, sober, full of knowledge, practical application in life of knowledge, tolerant, control of the mind, control of the senses. That is education. What is this education?
Reporter (2): Are you attempting to form a college?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is my next attempt, that we shall educate according to classification. First-class, second-class, third-class, up to fourth-class. And then fifth-class, sixth-class, that is automatically there. So first-class men, there must be, at least in the society, an ideal class of men, and that is one who is trained up for controlling the mind, controlling the senses, very clean, truthful, tolerant, simplicity, full of knowledge, practical application of knowledge in life and full faith in God. This is first-class man.
Prabhupāda: As you become purified, then your faith becomes fixed up with knowledge. Therefore that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam: (BG 7.28) "One who has finished his sinful life, he can become a devotee." Otherwise one cannot. First of all, beginning in faith. Then, by following the process, he becomes completely sinless. Then he, full knowledge. And so long he will be sinful, the things will be not properly manifested. Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam.
Baradrāj: So knowledge is not necessary for faith but faith is necessary for knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore devotee, without any knowledge he becomes devotee. That faith, only faith. The devotee advances. Jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukī. Later on, they become automatically full of knowledge because they have strong faith. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Teṣām evānukampārtham aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ nāśayāmy: (BG 10.11)
'There are many personalities possessing the qualities of Bhagavān, but Kṛṣṇa is the supreme because none can excel Him. He is the Supreme Person, and His body is eternal, full of knowledge and bliss. He is the primeval Lord Govinda and the cause of all causes.' (Bs. Fifth Chapter, first verse.) In the Bhāgavatam also there is a list of many incarnations of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but Kṛṣṇa is described as the original Personality of Godhead, from whom many, many incarnations and Personalities of Godhead expand:
- ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ
- kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam
- indrāri-vyākulaṁ lokaṁ
- mṛḍayanti yuge yuge
- (SB 1.3.28)
'All the lists of the incarnations of Godhead submitted herewith are either plenary expansions or parts of the plenary expansions of the Supreme Godhead, but Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself.' (Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, First Canto, Third Chapter, twenty-eighth verse.)
Prabhupāda: History, it is not a new movement. You have seen this book. You read that book thoroughly. You will get full knowledge. This movement is very, very old and standard. It is never changed. As soon as you change it, then the potency of the movement is lost.
Faill: Sorry, what was that?
Prabhupāda: Potency. Just like electricity. There is standard regulation: "This is negative; this is positive. You must act like this. You must fix like..." You cannot do whimsically: "No, why not this way? Why not that way?" Then it is lost. Then there will be no electricity. Similarly, there is standard method how to understand this philosophy, how to get it, I mean to say, what is called, authoritatively. Then it will act.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Knowledge means received from the superior. Like the child gets knowledge from the father. That kind of faith is required. If the child does not believe the statement of father and mother, he cannot make any progress. If the child does not believe the statement of mother, he does not know who is his father. So there must be faith, faith in the right person. Then it is all right. If you have got faith in the person who has got eyes to lead you, then he will help you to cross the road. And if you put your faith to another blind man like you, then it will cause disaster. Faith is required, but to the right person. Then it will be all right. You know that one barber is honest: then you can make your neck like this and he is with a sharpened razor. But you have faith that "He will not cut my throat; he will shave me." This is faith. And if you do not know him and if you put your neck like this and if he is a rogue, he will cut your throat. That's all. The same faith, if you put it to the right person, you become cleansed, shaved, and the same faith put in the wrong person—your throat is cut off. So you must know where to put the faith. So our Vedic injunction is: "Put your faith to the brahma-nistam, one who is God-realized." Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet samit-paniḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭam: (MU 1.2.12) "One who has full knowledge in the Vedas and firmly fixed up in Brahman, God, you put your faith there." Otherwise there will be disaster. Right faith. (break) ...you call Prabhakara?
Harikeśa: So actually the one thing that makes Kṛṣṇa consciousness different from other religious processes is the practical application of knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Full knowledge, perfect knowledge. And other religious systems, they have no knowledge. They say of God something but they do not know what is God. We know what is God and who is God. That is the difference.
Devotee (3): But they have no pure devotee in which to put their faith.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Devotee (3): They have no one in which to put their faith.
Prabhupāda: Whatever they may be, put because they do not know God, therefore it is cheating. Just see, India's capital and so dirty thing.
Harikeśa: You were saying about Eisenhower and Nehru?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No. May be some fragmental knowledge, but if one wants full knowledge in life, then he must read Bhāgavatam. Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary ABCD, and then let him read Bhāgavatam. They have been taught like that. Andhā yathāndhaiḥ. They are passing as great leader for giving men wrong direction and spoil the life. He cannot save himself and he can spoil himself very nicely.
Hariśauri: People's minds are so flickering. There's so much disturbance.
Prabhupāda: The mind is the first creation for material enjoyment. From the mind, senses are created, five senses for knowledge-gathering and five senses for working, and five airs within the body. In this way the mind and fifteen. This is called ṣoḍāśa upacāra, sixteen. And then the ingredients, pañca-mahā-bhūta. Then intelligence, ahaṅkāra, false ego. These twenty-four, combination. And ātmā, jīva, and then Kṛṣṇa-twenty-six. The twenty-six combination is this body, mind, self, soul, Supersoul, everything. So I am ready.
Mahāṁśa: In the spiritual world the living entity is full of knowledge, so does he...
Prabhupāda: That is enjoined, ordered, "You should not become guru if you cannot save him. You should not become father if you cannot save him." This is sastric injunction. First word is gurur na sa syāt pitā na sa syāt. Why you are claiming? Just like.... We are not going to become guru like that.... What is that rascal? Yogi...?
Gurukṛpā: Guru Mahārāja.
Revatīnandana: Which one? There's many rascals.
Prabhupāda: That big rascal, transcendental meditation.
Madhudviṣa: Maharishi.
Prabhupāda: No, if you have grasped the thought, that you can express in any language. But if you cannot grasp the thought, then you cannot express. So the.... Our translation is that we have to receive the thoughts as it is by the paramparā system. Therefore it is presented so nicely, and people like it. It is.... It is the value of the subject matter. That we have to receive from authorities. Just like any scientific book, say medical science. You cannot understand medical science by reading the books. It must be received through a medical man. Then it will be clear. Therefore the paramparā system.... Arjuna said, evaṁ paramparā... Kṛṣṇa said, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). Everything is paramparā. If you receive the knowledge from the authority, then you are in perfect knowledge, simply by..., not by reading the books. Therefore our method is to accept the perfect guru to understand the subject matter. But still, if one reads the books as it is from authorities, there is chance of understanding. Real thing is training. So our institution is training, not only training, full knowledge, practical and theoretical.
Prabhupāda: Asaṁśayam: "Without any doubt, and in fullness, as you understand, I'll see to(?)" This is our faith. We have no asaṁśaya, and we have no imperfect understanding. Asaṁśayaṁ samagram. Asaṁśayam means without any doubt, and samagram means in full. You know simply Brahman. That is that full knowledge. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). That's all right. You have come to the light, just like you have come to the sunshine, light, but does not mean that you have gone to the sun globe or you have seen the sun-god. That will take many millions of years to become so perfect. But you have come to the light—that much credit to you. That is ordinary. Everyone sees the sunlight. That does not require much endeavor. But if you want to go to the sun globe and enter there to see the sun-god, then that requires special qualification. So you are ordinary man. You have come to the light from darkness. That much credit to you, that's all.
Prabhupāda: That is my question. Where is that full advantage? They are remaining in the darkness. Why do you trust, first of all. Why do you trust? So many questions there are. Why you are prepared to trust in God? If I ask, you must answer. If you cannot answer, then you are ass. It is good, even without knowing, but when the slogan comes from the government side, there must be full knowledge. Otherwise, the government is as good as common man. The government should be full of intelligent men. Why vote is there? You select an intelligent man. Otherwise, anyone can go. Cats and dogs, they also can go. Why the voting system? That you select some intelligent man. So if you cannot answer your slogan, then you are not intelligent, you are unfit.
Prabhupāda: That is complacence. What is called? "Yes, in future we shall do." That's all. Then at present you cannot do. Then you are imperfect. Why you are declaring yourself as scientist? Scientist means who is in full knowledge. That is scientist. And if you are not in full knowledge, how you are scientist? "Big, big scientist, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." Rascals say that chemical, combination of chemical, makes life. So we challenge that you begin from an egg. Everyone sees the egg—some white substance, some yellow substance, covered with some shells. So just manufacture it and give it to the incubator, and let the chicken come. Why you take the egg from another living chicken? What is the answer? You rascal, you make one small egg. We can see there are some white substance, yellow substance, so you combine some chemicals, white and yellow, and cover it with celluloid shell and put it under the incubator. You get. Why the rascals cannot do it? And still, the rascals will say that life can be..., is combination of chemicals.
Prabhupāda: Yes, if mathematics begins with imaginary something, why not Absolute Truth? That Absolute Truth must be life. As Bhāgavata explains, janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). He must be aware of everything. That means life. That means life. Now the question is how He became experienced? Svarāṭ, independent. Just like we require experience, knowledge, from somebody else. Experienced knowledge is not gained automatically, but the Absolute means that He is full of knowledge. How He got knowledge? Svarāṭ, independently. That is the description. You have to imagine at least like that. It is Vedic injunction, it is the fact, that Absolute Truth independently cognizant of everything. That is Absolute Truth.
Prabhupāda: Yes, socially you can teach how this cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), how it is scientific. In the society, if there is... Actually we have. Just like why these, maybe so-called scientists, but why the scientists are given so much importance? Because there is a brain. So if you make everyone equal, all śūdras, then who will be the brain? The brain is required. That is brāhmaṇa. So this, not this brain, this brain is śūdra brain for everyone. But when the... But just like here is Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara, or you are here. So you are not scientists from the very birth. You have been trained up how to become a scientist. Similarly, the birth is there. Whatever you may be, it doesn't matter. But you have to be trained up how to become first-class brain. That is brāhmaṇa. You have to become truthful, you have to become controller of the senses, you have to become fully aware of things, of God, everything, full knowledge, then you become brain.
Devotee (4): I can't seem to get a grasp on this at all. If we in our original constitutional position as part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, and in that position, that original position of full knowledge and full bliss and being in our eternal nature... Now I have some experience of how strong this material energy is and how māyā works somewhat, but if I had known this and had this full knowledge, then I would have had this knowledge of how māyā works and how I might fall.
Prabhupāda: You read the life of Jaya, Vijaya, Hiraṇyakaśipu, Hiraṇyākṣa? They were Kṛṣṇa's doorkeepers. How they fell down? Did you read it? Did you read the life of Hiraṇyakaśipu or Hiraṇyākṣa?
Prabhupāda: Wrongly, wrongly. Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). So according to quality and work... That is fact. If you have got engineering qualification and if you can work as engineer, people will call you engineer-sāheb. Is it not? So there may be a class of engineer, but that depends on quality and work. But if you have no quality, no work, how you become engineer? If you have no qualification of becoming an engineer, and you do not work, you work as a clerk, and if somebody addresses you "Engineer-sāheb," he is a fool, you are a fool. (laughter) So if he's not a brāhmaṇa, if you call him a brāhmaṇa, then you are fool and he is also fool. So that is going on, fools' paradise. A rascal who is not in qualification a brāhmaṇa, if he's addressed and given honor of a brāhmaṇa, he's sees, "Oh, for nothing I am getting this honor, that's right, very nice." And who is giving him honor as brāhmaṇa, he's also rascal. But it is not that. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Not by birth. One must acquire the quality of a brāhmaṇa.
- śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ
- kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca
- jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ
- brahma-karma svabhāva-jam
- (BG 18.42)
He must be truthful, he must be self-restrained, self-controlled, full of knowledge, very simple. All these qualifications, when he acquires, then he becomes a brāhmaṇa.
Prabhupāda: And if they take photograph of the ocean, what they will understand what is within the ocean? Suppose they have taken photograph of the ocean. Does it mean the full knowledge of ocean?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Only speculation, only speculation.
Prabhupāda: Simply speculation. They are bluffing, "We have taken photograph." Suppose you have taken photograph. Does it mean that you have known everything? Nonsense.
Hari-śauri: They don't even know all the species of life here, so how will they know which one's there?
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes, it is scientific, everything scientific. Science means knowledge, full knowledge.
Mike Robinson: But you were a chemist yourself, were you not, in secular life before you took up the position you have...?
Prabhupāda: It doesn't require to become a very big chemist. Any common sense man can do it. Of course, I was chemist in my previous life.
Mike Robinson: So presumably you think that that science is also important, even if scientists are being dull-headed.
Prabhupāda: The important so far—not all-important. Not all-important.
Prabhupāda: Very good, but I could not digest them. That is my fault, but, oh, it was so nice palatable. Chick peas, chick peas, grow fresh. Eat very nicely, keep strong, drink milk, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bas. Don't depend on this outside work and then gradually become debauch, thief, rogues, prostitutes. Is that civilization? They cannot imagine that the modern civilization can go without all these things. Do they not? Slaughterhouse, brothel, cheating, diplomacy, roguery, drinking—without this, no civilization. We are quite opposed. We want to show it is possible, yes. You can stop all this nonsense and still you go on as a perfect civilized man. With character, knowledge, satisfaction, everything. They are trying to gather knowledge by sending so many machines up to date. We have already got. We say you cannot go there, you are simply wasting your time. We have got so much knowledge. No, you can attempt, just like a monkey, that's all right. But our verdict is already there. You cannot go there. Ten years before I said this moon excursion is simply childish and waste of money in my Easy Journey to Other Planets. I am not a scientist, but how I dared to say? Because I know, I have got full knowledge.
Prabhupāda: No, jñāna means that to understand the Absolute Truth. If you do not understand the Absolute Truth, what is the meaning of this jñāna? That means knowledge is imperfect. But if you want to know the Absolute Truth, ultimately, then bhakti is required. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). If you want to know the Absolute Truth, the Supreme Being, then you have to go through bhakti. Jñāna, so-called jñāna, bhakti includes. Just like bhakti includes everything, but jñāna does not include bhakti. It is imperfect. In jñāna there is little touch of bhakti, but in bhakti there is full jñāna. Because unless you... Absolute Truth is realized in three stages, brahmeti, paramātmeti, bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). So those who are on the stage of Brahman and Paramātmā, they're not in the Absolute Truth. Part of it. But when one understands Bhagavān, then he understands Paramātmā and Brahman. That is full knowledge. There are three things—sat, cit, ānanda. So Brahman realization is sat. Paramātmā realization is cit. But ānanda is not there. But if he does not get ānanda, then falls down.
Prabhupāda: Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). This is the Vedānta. We are, as spirit soul, being part and parcel of the Supreme, ānanda is our goal, ānanda, blissfulness. But that blissfulness, you cannot get simply by understanding sat-cit. You must come to the platform of ānanda. That is Kṛṣṇa. So because these so-called jñānīs, they do not get ānanda, they do not have the entrance into the ānanda platform, they come to this material ānanda, this material pleasure. Therefore they take to this hospitality or opening a school or philanthropic work, another type of this material pleasure. Therefore Śaṅkarācārya recommended:
- bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ
- bhaja govindaṁ mūḍha-mate
- prāpte sannihite kāle na hi
- na hi rakṣati dukṛn kāraṇe
Your simply this grammatical jugglery of words will not help you. Bhaja govindam. Therefore we, govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. We, our principle is to worship Govinda the ādi-puruṣa, tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. So without coming to that stage, perfection is not complete. Partial, the sac-cid-ānanda, the brahma-anubhūti is partial, sat. "I am not matter. I am not destructible. I am eternal." This is sat. And cit, knowledge, full knowledge about spiritual... But ānanda you have to come to the third stage, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti.
Prabhupāda: Oh, they couldn't. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). This is the verse. Religion means the words given by God. But they have no idea what is God, whether He can speak or He's a dull, dumb. That is the difficulty. The Māyāvādīs, they say God has no mouth. So how He will speak? He has no eyes, He has no ears. Then who will hear my prayer? That is Māyāvādī definition. But Vedas say apāni-pādo javana gṛhīta.(?) That both things, that He has no leg, but he can walk faster than anyone. He has no ear, but He can hear everything. Just like we have got this ear, but I cannot hear what is going on next room. But God has no ear, but He can hear here, there, everywhere. This is Vedic definition. This is Vedic definition. Śṛṇoti akarṇa. He has no ears, but He hears everything. That means that it is not the fact that He has no ear, but He has no limited ear like me. And therefore described sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). You cannot compare with this body. Because sat means eternal. So this body is not eternal. So when God has no body means He hasn't got a body like this. He is sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). His body is eternal, blissful and full of knowledge.
Prabhupāda: That depends on your philosophy. You are reading so many books. How do you select, "This is nice." That depends on your philosophy. But if you accept it that it is spoken by God, then there is no argument. But why should you accept it, spoken by God? You read it, whether how much logical, how much full of knowledge. Then you can say. The same thing. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "Within this body there is the soul, and because the soul is there, therefore body is changing." So anyone can... Any layman can understand. Things are there like that. So there is no difficulty. If we take, "Oh, this description, the transmigration of the soul-Hindu idea." Why Hindu idea? It is science. As soon as we consider it "Hindu," then it becomes sectarian. Then you will say, "I have got my Christian idea. Why shall I take your Hindu idea?"
Prabhupāda: So the illumination is also light and the source of illumination, the bulb, that is also light. And what is that? Filament within? That is also light. But what is the anta light? Not this illumination. Similarly Kṛṣṇa is the original source of light. Yasya prabhā prabhavataḥ (Bs. 5.40). It is confirmed in The Brahma-saṁhitā. So Brahman knowledge is partial Kṛṣṇa knowledge. Paramātmā knowledge, partial Kṛṣṇa knowledge. And Kṛṣṇa knowledge is perfect. So partial knowledge is also knowledge but Vedānta means full knowledge. So unless you come to that point it is not Vedānta. The another example is just like from a distant place you see one mountain. You'll see just like something cloud. It is not cloud. It is the mountain, but because you are seeing from a distant place you see it is something cloud. If you go little further, you'll see something green, and when you actually go to the mountain you'll find so many trees, so many living entities, so many everything full of varieties.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: We have seen when, when we were boys, ten years, twelve years old. I have seen it. Formerly, in our father's time, it was aristocratic to keep one prostitute and keep one garden also. Then he'll get... So this man, dehātma-buddhi and sexually inclined, he is mahātmā. This is the standard of... Ramakrishna, he was worshiping goddess Kālī. It is condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante 'nya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20), that "Anyone who is worshiping a demigod, he is lost of all sense." So this man, by losing his all senses, worshiping a demigod, he became God. People do not take reference from Bhagavad-gītā, that "A demigod worshiper has no sense, and he has become God?" What kind of God? Senseless God? And God's definition is aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47), jñāna. God means full in knowledge. And a man who has no sense, he has become God? From logic. Jñāna-vairāgyayaś caiva. God means he has got full knowledge. And this man is senseless and he has become God. Logic, how you can defy? And they're accepting: "Ramakrishna is God." How you defend it? I am giving this logic. Defend.
Prabhupāda: No, you say material; we say... We have full knowledge. We say material, but subtle material. But you have no knowledge; therefore you have no brain.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "What proof is there?" they may argue.
Prabhupāda: This is the proof. Now, if the real active principle has left, the brain has left, the mind has left—it is only a lump. You cannot understand. If you understand it, then replace it. If you cannot, then you have no brain. You have to prove that, that "You have no brain at all. Where is the question of brainwashing?"
Hari-śauri: But if we operate on a person's brain, actual brain substance, it affects his personality. So therefore the personality in the brain is the same.
Prabhupāda: The child is there, the mother is there, there must be father. This is logic. Otherwise how the living entity came into existence? Talk on this point. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Śāstra says in the beginning, jalajā, living entities born in the water. And they are not one kind. Not that one kind of fish is coming. Nava-lakṣāṇi. Nine hundred thousand different types of life, varieties, varieties of life. So how these rascals say that all of a sudden came another? What is that another? Answer it. What is that another? "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." (laughter) What is that another? That "another" is God. It is simple for us. We understand. Why? Because you are Kṛṣṇa conscious. Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). "I am, here I am. I am the seed-giving father." Finished. We take it. So we are in full knowledge. What is the difficulty for us? There is father. You can say another or this or that, whatever way you can say. There is father. You do not know? Here, the father says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: "Yes, I am." We believe in Kṛṣṇa, our knowledge is perfect.
Prabhupāda: Simply by dressing. If you dress a hog, he becomes human being? So they are after this dress. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni. They do not know what is his civilization, what is life, nothing. And when you go to preach, "Ah, we have to take from India knowledge, a poverty-stricken?" They do not know this is not that India, poverty-stricken. It is full of knowledge India, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then there is no poverty. Those who have left this knowledge, they are poverty-stricken. We are not poverty-stricken.
Yadubara: I would like to show the origins of Kṛṣṇa consciousness in India in the next film.
Prabhupāda: Vairāgya... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says clearly that niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. The bhagavad-bhajana, to become devotee of the Lord, means he's disgusted with this material world. For him, bhagavad-bhajana. Just like if I become disgusted with something, I require some change, similarly, bhagavad-bhajana is for him who is absolutely disgusted with this material world. And anyone who has got little interest in material enjoyment, he's not fit for bhagavad-bhajana. He'll have to accept again this material body, either he becomes Brahmā or becomes an ant in the stool, according to his karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha-upapattaye (SB 3.31.1). He'll have to develop certain type of body according to his desire of enjoyment. This is nature's law. Then where is the question of going back to home, back to Godhead? Why so many varieties of life? There is Brahmā, and there is ant in the stool. So vairāgya-vidyā-nija... Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ (SB 1.2.7), janayaty āśu vairāgyam. And vairāgyam means jñānam ca. When one is in full knowledge that "To remain in this material world is useless for me"—jñānam—"I am simply wasting my time by repetition of birth and death," then he can have vairāgya.
Prabhupāda: Ah, yajñād bhavati parjanyo yajñaḥ karma-samudbhavaḥ (BG 3.14). Yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). All prescription of material life, spiritual life, social life, political life, religious life, artistic life—Bhagavad-gītā is full of knowledge. At least in India there must be an institution that is strictly following the principles of Bhagavad-gītā. This is my institution. We don't want anything more, other help. We simply request them that "Give some of our men permanent residentship. We shall guide it(?)." That they'll institute...(?) What help... What is the harm? Have we got...
| Page Title: | Full knowledge (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 06 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=92, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 92 |