Freedom (Conversations 1968 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"freedom"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: freedom not "freedom from"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that running away is the best sol... Suppose you are put in a prison house. The solution is to go out of it. If you want to make adjustment of the prison house, that is impossible. You may be a first-class prisoner or second-class prisoner, third-class prisoner, but you will remain a prisoner. But if you want freedom, then you must go out of the prison walls.

Interviewer: But I notice you have many, you seem to have a lot of young men who are part of your organization. These young men must face the material problems of today like the draft and Vietnam and everything.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: Isn't it difficult to belong to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and exist in this world we must exist in?

Morning Walk -- March 20, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are so many places. The living entity is described in the Bhagavad-gītā as sarvaga. Sarvaga means he can go anywhere within this universe. He can go in the spiritual sky also. Sarvaga means including everywhere, if he likes. As I explained yesterday, last night, yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). If he likes, he can go to the planets of the demigods, to the Pitrloka, he can remain here, or if he likes, he can go to the planet of Kṛṣṇa. He has got this freedom. Just like there are many government posts. You can select any one of them, but you must be qualified for that. So it is a question of qualification, how you can go to the planets of the demigods, how you can go to the planet of the pitṛs. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā (BG 14.18). If you develop your modes of goodness, then you go to the, promoted to the higher planets because in the higher planets, the third-class living entities are not allowed. Don't you see that in here also, in America, for permanent visa we have to undergo so many formalities?

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Rūpa Gosvāmī. He was finance minister in the government of Nawab Hussain Shah in Bengal. But when Lord Caitanya started His movement, he was captivated and he resigned his service, government service and joined Him. And he wrote immense literature, Gosvāmīs. And that Desai was talking that Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, he says, rūpa-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti kabe hāma bujhaba se yugala-pīriti: conjugal love of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, one can understand when they go through the literatures presented by these Gosvāmīs. So his first book is Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. Devotion of, Nectar of Devotion. That is very authorized book. Quotation from various Vedic literature about Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa and the different stages of relationship with Kṛṣṇa, śānta-rasa, dāsya-rasa, admiration. God is Great. This is also one stage, appreciating the greatness of God. Then further development, dāsya-rasa, willing to serve. Oh! God is so great, and I must serve service because everyone of us are serving somebody. So why not serve the Supreme? Nobody is free from service because we are constitutionally the servant. Either we become the servant of the Great or māyā. Just like in any condition of our lives, we have to abide by the laws of the state. If he says that we don't abide then come to prisonhouse. You will be forced. Similarly, māyā and Kṛṣṇa. If we don't abide by Kṛṣṇa, then come to māyā. He cannot be free. That is not our position. Freedom is frustration.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 14, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is very natural. Just like... (knock on door) Come on. Because jīva, although parā śaktī, he has got independence. So when he wants to imitate Kṛṣṇa... In the spiritual world Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer, and all others, they are enjoyed. Predominator and the predominating. The Lord is the predominating, so there is no disagreement. There they know, "The Lord is predominator. We have to serve." When this service attitude is impaired, that "Why serve Kṛṣṇa? Why not ourself?" that is māyā. Then he falls down in the material energy. There is no scope... Just like in the government system, there is no scope of freedom. You have to act according to government state laws. So long you are agreement, then you are free. If you disagree, then you are placed within the prison house. Similarly, jīva, independent, not fully independent, but they have got. Because part and part of God, therefore that independence quality is there. So when that independence quality is misused, then his place is in the material world. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāṅchā kare. When we forget Kṛṣṇa and try to lord it over something... And Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. When we try to imitate His lordship, then our place is in the material world. We are given freedom, "All right, you lord it over here."

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: You are thinking at the present moment that you are avoiding suffering because family life is very responsible life. So if you think that family life is responsible, yes, it is responsible life. If you don't take, if you cannot take the responsibility, then remain as a brahmacārī. Why should you marry? Yes. If you practice brahmācārya, then you become free, seventy-five percent freedom immediately. But you do not want to undergo the austerities of a brahmacārī, and still, you want to remain as an unmarried man. Everywhere in the world it is going on. This is increasing. That is stated here, sadācāra. Naṣṭa-sadācāro dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. The illicit connection with man and woman will certainly make him abominable, fallen down to this abominable life. I... When I was... In my younger days, when I was in business, so I was to take agency one of big company, Smith's Transit Company. So they had to... I had to give some guarantee of my honesty. So in that program the question was whether married or unmarried.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Darsana -- June 28, 1971, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Previous year... Anyone? Everyone you have got? All right. So this is the difference. I have been in Moscow. So there is... I couldn't find this. I could not eat fruit. Now your country, Kṛṣṇa has given so nice, so nice flowers, and so nice Vaiṣṇavas. And that country is very proud of advancing, but there is no fruit, there is no flower, there is no Vaiṣṇava, and there is no freedom. And this is the... They are proud. You see? "We are advanced." This is the... There is a story, one worshiper of Durgā... In Bengal, they worship Durgā Mātā. So it is a story, the Durgā Mātā, the Goddess Durgā is asking the devotee, "My dear boy, you are happy?" "Yes, mother, I am very happy. Simply two things wanting." "What is this?" "I have no food, I have no clothing." Just see. This is story, just try to understand, that "I am happy, but two things wanting: no food, no clothing." Is that happiness? No food, no clothing. Similarly, this Russian country, they are very much proud of advancement, but no food sufficient and no freedom. No food and no freedom, that's all.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Revatīnandana: "Blocking the traffic, disturbing the peace..."

Haṁsadūta: Anyway, the original purpose of America was to have religious freedom. Therefore they left England.

Revatīnandana: There is constitutional guarantee...

Haṁsadūta: So they still have some respect for people who are trying to glorify God.

Prabhupāda: In American in every court case, we win. (laughter)

Revatīnandana: Well, we lost here several times.

Devotee: Last, year, when we went to the police authorities for our procession here, and we wanted to make three rathas and the police officer, he was so envious, he said, "No. There is no law, we can put three rathas on the street." We said, "What is the harm? Won't you give us protection?" "So many people will be dying and killed under the ratha. If the ratha is so big and all that. People will be killed." I said, "They are big all over the world. This is for God consciousness."

Prabhupāda: So many people are dying by motor accidents, but do they stop motor car?

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with John Griesser (later initiated as Yadubara Dasa) -- March 10, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is ordinary duty. If you encroach upon my freedom, I have the right to kill you. That is recommended. That is clearly stated in the śāstras. If anyone sets fire in another's house, if anyone kidnaps his wife, if anyone takes his money—so many list—he is to be killed. There is no question. He can be killed immediately. That action-reaction is going on in the material world, that is a different thing. That is karma-bandha. But in devotion, there is no karma-bandha. As Kṛṣṇa is free from all reaction, similarly Kṛṣṇa's devotee who wants to satisfy Kṛṣṇa only, he is also free from all reaction. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān nāva-manyeta karhicit (SB 11.17.27). "The ācārya is as good as I am," Kṛṣṇa says. Nāva-manyeta karhicit, "Never neglect him." Na martya-buddhyāsūyeta, "Never be envious of the ācārya, thinking him as anything of this material world." Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān (SB 11.17.27). Therefore, ācārya's position is as good as Kṛṣṇa. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair **. Ācārya is always cautious that he may not be subject to criticism.

Room Conversation with John Griesser (later initiated as Yadubara Dasa) -- March 10, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning? The physician, one physician doctor friend, long..., forty years ago, he prescribed one of my patent medicines. And the patient little protested because it is Indian-made. He was Eurasian. So as soon as he questioned, "What is this medicine, Indian-made?" "Yes, it is Indian-made. If you have no such faith, don't come to me." He flatly said, "Don't come to me." That should be the position of the physician or ācārya. If you go there, you should accept whatever he says. If you are in doubt, then don't go there. That is the position. It is freedom. It is not that you have to accept some ācārya particular by canvassing. No, you should be inspired that "Yes, here I can surrender, here I can gain something." Then surrender. In the spiritual science, there is no bluffing. Everything must be very clear-cut. Otherwise it will be not very satisfactory. (break) Hear this sound, ca-caw caw. (laughter) Because nobody takes this rooster.

Room Conversation with John Griesser (later initiated as Yadubara Dasa) -- March 10, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, if we open our heart, then open-heartedly, then it will be nice. No reservation. And that open-heartedness means free from designation. That is open-heartedness. If I think, "Oh, I am American. Why shall I take this Indian philosophy?" Or if I think, "I am Christian. Why shall I take the philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā?" then it will not work. One has to be free from these designations. Then it will be easy. I am... God is God, and I am also part and parcel of God, my relationship with God. So let me understand what is that relationship, what is God, what I am. That freedom, that open-heartedness will make it. But if I try to understand as Christian, as Englishman, as Japanese, as Indian, then it will be difficult. Many of our students joined, even initiated, but they could not make them free from these stereotyped ideas. Sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). One must be free from the... Aiye aiye. So let us go. Take the box. (break)

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) The, our present conditional life is rebellious. We have rebelled against the authority of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord. It is very simple thing. Just like a person, a citizen, if he becomes rebellious, then he is arrested and put into custody, and his life becomes conditioned, he has no freedom. Similarly, as soon aw we are rebellious to the authority of the Supreme Lord, we are captured by māyā—that is also an energy of Kṛṣṇa—and we become conditioned. So this is our position. So in this conditional life we can never be happy, that's a fact. So we have to transcend this conditional life and again become engaged in our constitutional position. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now our consciousness is polluted. We are thinking different way. Just like a madman thinks that..., sometimes he says, "I am the king." He stands sometimes in the midst of the road: "Stop, I order you!"

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Devotee: This man who wrote this book made an interesting comment. He said that after..., or before the First World War, when the British were entering the First World War, they made a promise to the Indians that "If you help us fight this war, then we will give you freedom afterwards."

Prabhupāda: They did not.

Devotee: They helped, but they didn't give them freedom. So Gandhi or the others, they took that asat. "They have broken their promise, so now we can break ours, noncooperation."

Prabhupāda: Yes. They actually expanded their empire all over the (indistinct) world by Indian cooperation. Therefore these big men like Attlee, when they thought that "India is going out of our hands," so don't (indistinct) up our empire. Forget it. They voluntarily (indistinct).

Interview with the New York Times -- September 2, 1972, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Finally you take sannyāsa and leave your family to practice and preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is Vedic civilization. Everything is provided to enlighten the people in general. All the knowledge is there, and the method is there; we simply have to take advantage of it. If we do not, how can we expect a peaceful and happy world? If society creates animals, then how can it expect peace and prosperity? In spite of so many big universities and all educational facilities, this society is producing hippies and frustration amongst the youth because we are spirit soul and cannot become happy simply by amassing material comforts. We must have spiritual life. If a fish is taken out of water, it cannot be made happy with all the comforts of land. To be happy, a fish must have all the freedom of water. Similarly, we are all spiritual sparks, and we cannot become happy in matter. We require spiritual food, spiritual atmosphere.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: No, nothing hypothetical. Your bondage... Bondage means that birth, death, old age and disease. This is bondage. We are all living entities, part and parcel of God. We are spirit soul. So this is not our business, birth, death, old age and disease. So bondage means so long you'll get this material body you are under this bondage: birth, death, old age, and disease. Because you are very rich man, getting good salary, it does not mean that you will not die, or disease will not attack you. This is bondage. First of all try to understand what is bondage. Bondage and freedom. Bondage means to be subjected to the condition of this material body. That is called bondage. The body may be elephant's body or tiger's body or Brahmā's body or ant's body, but that is bondage. Because as soon as you get a material body you are under this bondage of birth, death, old age and disease. So your problem is how to get out of this bondage, not that to accept the bondage—just like I am bound up by iron shackles—"Let me be bound up by golden shackles." So that is bondage. The people do not know. They are satisfied when they are bound up with golden shackles. That is called ignorance. He feels satisfied when he is locked up with golden shackles. That is called ignorance.

Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ah, the conditions. So first of all you come out of the conditioned life. Just like we are trying to go to other planets with so many machines, so many mechanical arrangements. But if you have got spiritual body, you can go anywhere. Anywhere you can go. As Nārada Muni is going, traveling, any planet he likes he is going. That freedom is there, but that is in spiritual body. So you come to the spiritual body first, then you get all freedom. Whatever you like, you can do. Whatever you desire, you can get.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like Śrīla Prabhupāda gives the example like Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it might look like poison at the beginning, but at the end it will be nectar.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is the desire of the spirit soul.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). Freedom is given. Kṛṣṇa says, "Whatever you want, you can take." Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25). Everything is freedom.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then why is it in the Vaivarta Purāṇa, after traveling 8,400,000 species of life, we get this human form of life? Is that contradiction with the...?

Prabhupāda: No. Because in the lower form of life, the progress is by the laws of nature, and in the human form of life, you get consciousness development. Therefore you have got discretion. The other forms, they have no discretion, one after another.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. My point being the... Some human beings, they come without traveling through these 8,400,000 species.

Prabhupāda: Then he can come.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: For future. No. Might be. He wanted to join? Why he should join? Why he did not join?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It was explained that he had a better, great mission, so he should not join, "You should do your..." By that time he was started, fighting for freedom. So he was not allowed...

Prabhupāda: So what was that greater mission?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: For independence, fighting.

Prabhupāda: No. Why he wanted to join Ramakrishna mission? What is the attraction of Ramakrishna mission? What they have done? Ramakrishna mission, what they have done? The Ramakrishna mission is working here in your country... (end)

Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, a devotee cannot hate the Deity. How he... Then how he can serve?

Father Tanner: Because you can see the Deity as too strong, repressive, taking away your freedom, your own wishes...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Father Tanner: ... and so you can come to hate the Deity.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Spiritualism means to sacrifice your freedom. That is spiritualism. You have no more freedom. You are simply engaged for God's service. That is spiritualism.

Father Tanner: Why, why, why were we created free?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Father Tanner: ...then I can't give up my freedom for religion.

Prabhupāda: You are free to some extent, because you are part and parcel of God. God is completely free. So because you are part and parcel of God, therefore you have got that minute freedom. That minute freedom, when you misuse for other purposes, then you fall down. But if you use that freedom for the service of the Lord... You have got freedom. You may serve the Lord, you may not serve. That is your freedom. But if you serve the Lord, then you become happy. If you do not serve the Lord, then you become unhappy.

Father Tanner: If I serve the Lord, do I lose that little bit of freedom?

Prabhupāda: Because you are meant for that purpose.

Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Father Tanner: Do I lose that little bit of freedom?

Prabhupāda: No, that is real freedom. Just like this, my finger, is part and parcel of my body. So long the finger serves the body, it is healthy. If it is painful, it cannot serve, then it is unhealthy. Similarly, a living entity, when he cannot serve God, that is his material condition, or unhealthy condition. When he serves God, that is his natural condition. Because he's part and parcel of God.

Father Tanner: Where did we lose the contact with God?

Prabhupāda: When you misused your freedom. You have got little freedom.

Father Tanner: But at what point did I... No. Or, a child lose its contact with its Creator?

Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: It is said... Suppose I am serving my master. I can think of, "Oh, why shall I serve him? I shall become independent." That is my freedom, little freedom. So I cannot become independent. That is not my healthy stage. Just like... Take for example, a dog. A dog is healthy when he has got a good master. And if he hasn't got a good master, he's a street dog, neglected. He's not healthy. Similarly our position is like that, that we must be dependent on God. Therefore in your Christian Bible also you go for your bread: "God, give us our daily bread." So you are dependent. So it is better to remain dependent on God than to use your so-called little freedom.

Father Tanner: But your dog can be healthy in two ways, can't he? The dog can be healthy... ,

Prabhupāda: No, no, this is an example.

Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So to remain dependent on God is our healthy state. As soon as we declare independent of God, that is our unhealthy state. This is our philosophy. And your philosophy also. To remain there. That is the Vedic injunction, that nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām, eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). What is the difference between God and ourself? God is also a living entity like us, but He's the chief living entity. He's maintaining all others. Therefore we have to ask God, "Give us our daily bread." He's the maintainer; we are maintained. Just like in a family, the father is the maintainer, and the mother and the children and the servants, they are maintained, similarly the whole universe, whole creation, it is maintained by God, and we living entities, within this universe or within this creation, we are maintained. So as we are maintained, it is better to remain dependent on God than to declare our freedom.

Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, that is your freedom. You can do.

Father Tanner: Now, this is the same as a material man saying "I want to become spiritual or God conscious or what have you." But, you know, because I want to become this, it doesn't mean that I am this. Because I want to become God's servant, it doesn't mean that I am God's servant.

Prabhupāda: No, you don't, you do not want, you want or not want, that is not the question. First of all you must know what is your real identity. You do not want and do want, that independence you have got always. That is a different thing. But first of all you must know what is your identity. Your identity is... That I have already explained. The... You are part and parcel of God. So far we understand, our philosophy is... From the Bhagavad-gītā. Mamaivāṁśaḥ. The whole thing is one unity, unit, and everything is part and parcel of God, His energy. So we, the marginal energy, living entities, we are also part and parcel of God. As part and parcel of God, what is my duty? Just like this finger. There is itching. Immediately it comes, serves. (end)

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Buddhist Monk (1): (laughs) Live and let live. That's what I have been asking people wherever I go. They talk of culture, civilization, progress, development, living standards, education, equality, freedom, lots of things. I asked them to define this, and I asked them, "The animals are of two types: the carnivorous and the vegetarian. Of course, the carnivorous looks even fiercer. But where has one found in the forest so many thousands of animals slaughtered and lying at random? But man today, in the name of progress and civilization..."

Prabhupāda: Very, very good. Yes.

Buddhist Monk (1): Yeah. So they have gone, according to me, lower than our animal brothers.

Prabhupāda: Certainly, certainly. Your argument is very good.

Buddhist Monk (1): Of course, it's very very...

Prabhupāda: In the forest, there is no slaughterhouse, although they are carnivorous animals.

Room Conversation with Malcolm -- July 18, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That forgetfulness is forced. He's, he's not happy.

Malcolm: If he would then, when he is a grown person, recapture or re-feel the link to his reason for being, he must go back in his experience or thought to the point at which he cried to feel again the feeling of being lost. Now, the Western youth seem to have been forced to accept their position, and the position that they have accepted gives them no freedom to go back and find the point at which they felt the experience of the thing they had lost. So in their minds they would say, "There is something missing. There is no God. But there is a God. Yet I must find him with my mind." And then they know through the search that it is only going back through their own years of experience to the point at which they had lost that they will find it. But for the Westerner it clashes with his total Western heritage, the thing imposed him upon by his senses which is that he may not isolate himself from his community in order to go back. And the young people cannot move because this point holds them.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Cardinal Danielou: The soul, the soul, the soul is, is human soul. In the animal you have some psychologic existence, but not life of spirit with freedom, with mind and with the reality of spirit. But you have the same idea because you said that there is a difference of nature between spiritual creation and the material world. You know, the material world is not of the same essence than the spiritual world. And the man, the man is a part of spiritual world.

Prabhupāda: No. Our Bhagavad-gītā says: sarva-yoniṣu. "In all species of life, as many forms are there, so the spirit soul is there." This outward body is just like a dress. You may have a very costly dress, and I may have a very shabby, poor dress, but both of us are human being, or living entities. Similarly these different forms of living entities, they are just like different types of dress. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). Just like you are in black dress. I am in saffron dress...

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. To authority. Because you have to surrender. If you don't surrender to God, then you have to surrender to māyā. Just like you don't surrender to government, then you have to surrender to the superintendent of jail. That's all. If you misuse your independence, you'll not be happy. This is the fact. But you have got the independence. You can misuse it. That is your prerogative. That is your freedom. Freedom means you must have independence. But because you are not absolutely independent, so you suffer. The Absolute Independent is God, Kṛṣṇa. Just like government. The government orders: let this crowd be shot. Let there be bullet shot. Hundreds of men die. But government is not responsible for such death. But if you kill one man, you'll be responsible. So your independence is subordinate independence. Similarly, all living entities, they have been given independence by God, but his independence is subordinate to the independence of God. This is our position, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109).

Room Conversation with Graham Hill Former World Champion Race Car Driver -- London, August 26, 1973:

Prabhupāda: That is ultimate goal. So long we do not go back to home, back to Godhead, we have to, in our material existence, we have to change from one body to another. That is going on. And there are 8,400,000 forms of bodies. The cats and dogs, they are also living entities, but they have got a different type of body. Every one of us, different type body. Even they are children, their body is different from your body. Even the (indistinct). Although their body is obtained, there are some similarities. But if you analyze very scrutinizingly there will be some difference from your body, from your daughter's body, from your boy's body. So every body, every living entity is getting a certain type of body according to his desire. According to his desire. So that desire means material enjoyment. Just like you have got certain desire to become champion in racing. Another body has got desire to become something else. Another body has got desire for something else. So we have got this freedom by the grace of God or Kṛṣṇa. Because we are children. He has given freedom. "All right, if you want this, take it." In this way our life is going on. This is called birth and death.

Room Conversation with British Man -- August 31, 1973, London:

Guest (1): Yes, I understood all that. Also, whilst listening, I could quite see that you gain a freedom through grace, and don't have to come back here again, and then I thought that you personally must have come back here because you wanted to. Because you had a job to do perhaps. Well, obviously—not perhaps.

Prabhupāda: Come back?

Pradyumna: He said that you must have come back here because you had a job to do.

Guest (1): You see you, if you were freed in your previous time and did not have to come back, it does occur to me that you have come back because you have a job to do.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, that is natural. Yes. Surāśū-sākṣimat. Surāśū-sākṣimat. In the liquor shop so there was some trouble. So he went to court. He went to court. So the court asked him, "Where is your witness?" So he brought one witness, drunkard. You see? Surāśū-sākṣimat. So that is māyā, ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8), misusing power and blaming God, "Why God...?" God has made everything. Just like here. It is made not to move. Stay. But we are better than this. Is it not? It cannot move. So God has made this also. But because we can move, we are better than this. And if, if, if they say that "God, why he has made me to commit mistake?" This rascal does not understand that that is freedom. You, why don't you take the right one? God says, "This is right." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Why don't you take it? And still, how you can say God is bad? What is the argument?

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Umāpati: ...I think that we were discussing the political possibilities of putting devotees into office, and we came up with the astounding discovery that we almost represent everything that is against western values. We represent austerity. We represent God consciousness. We represent restriction of sexual freedom, intoxication. All the four regulative principles are almost totally in opposite to western desires.

Prabhupāda: That means western people are all demons.

Umāpati: So the problem is trying to get into office under those circumstances, to make that known that "We stand for this," and to have anybody vote for you.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Nobody may vote but we must go on preaching. That I have already explained, some of the university. The whole country is illiterate. Does it mean university should be stopped? University must be there. One who is fortunate will come and take education. It is not an argument that "People are illiterate. They don't care for it. Therefore let the university be closed." This is no argument.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: In the constitution is written in religious freedom. You should let... Anyone who wants to practice anything, it's all right in the constitution.

Prabhupāda: Religious freedom means everyone is rascal and every religion is rascaldom. So how they can check? They cannot check. Let it be. Go on.

Karandhara: It also says that has restrictions. Religious practices which harm people or are detrimental to the public good, they are checked.

Prabhupāda: So... Now here, why do they not check? A rascal, cheater, and he is presenting himself as God, and why the government is allowing him? Rather, we should bring a case that why government, against the constitution, is allowing this rascal that he is declaring that he is God? What qualification he has got? let it be decided in the court. We should do that.

Svarūpa: We have to make definition of religion.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: In the constitution is written in religious freedom. You should let... Anyone who wants to practice anything, it's all right in the constitution.

Prabhupāda: Religious freedom means everyone is rascal and every religion is rascaldom. So how they can check? They cannot check. Let it be. Go on.

Karandhara: It also says that has restrictions. Religious practices which harm people or are detrimental to the public good, they are checked.

Prabhupāda: So... Now here, why do they not check? A rascal, cheater, and he is presenting himself as God, and why the government is allowing him? Rather, we should bring a case that why government, against the constitution, is allowing this rascal that he is declaring that he is God? What qualification he has got? let it be decided in the court. We should do that.

Svarūpa: We have to make definition of religion.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: We wanted to enjoy. We wanted to enjoy. God has given full freedom to enjoy, but this enjoyment is not perfect. Therefore God comes. He says, "Now you have enjoyed, but you have not enjoyed. You have simply suffered. Therefore please come back again." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66).

Svarūpa Dāmodara: If we don't experience, we may not know that we are suffering.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because we have got little freedom. Therefore this freedom is given, "All right..." So by freedom, sometimes we are becoming Lord Brahmā and sometimes the germ in the stool. This is going on. Otherwise, why there are so many different types of living entities? That freedom is acting under three modes: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, and tamo-guṇa. And when they are multiplied, three into three equals nine, nine into eighty-one; therefore 8,400,000 species. They experience everything. That is evolution, coming down, again going up, coming down again. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). So when they become exasperated, "No more." They want to become merging into the Supreme.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 5, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) This is material life. We are rounding sometimes this way, sometimes that way, and we are thinking "new." (devotees laugh) Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona (CC Madhya 19.151). In this way you are wandering all over the universe. Find out something new. But there is nothing new. Everything is old. (break) ...a living entity is offered change of the body. You see? When he becomes fatigued of this life, "It's so troublesome"—old men generally think like that. So he has to change another, another new body, child. Since born he is taken care, he thinks "Now, I have got so comfortable life." And again becomes old, disgusted, so he cannot live disgusting, therefore Kṛṣṇa is so kind: "All right, change body again." Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Chewing the chewed. The business is the same, but changing body gives some relief. Just like these men, the business is they're wasting time by changing, wasting time at home, come to the golf club. That's all. The business is the same—wasting time, either here or there. Kṛṣṇa is giving so much facilities. Sometimes, "All right, you become tree." "All right, some, become a serpent," "All right, you become a demigod," "All right, you become a human being," "All right, you become king," "You become a cobbler," "You go to the heavenly planets," "Go to the hellish planets." Varieties is there. Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He's changing varieties, atmosphere of life. But he's packed up in this material world. That freedom... He's asking for freedom, but he does not know the freedom is the shelter of Kṛṣṇa. That he'll not accept.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: This is brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) stage. Just like this is a cakra. I am walking on this wheel. But I am thinking I am advancing. What is this advancement? It is already there. Just like they are advancing in science and they must remain here. They are trying for so many years to go to the Moon planet, and no result. (laughs) The same, same thing. "Now we are going to the moon planet." But coming again. That's all. So saṁsāra-cakra. Just like the dog. Dog is sometimes barking: "Gata-gata-gata-gata!" The master says, "Come on." Immediately come. He thinks that "I have got freedom. Let me jump over." You see. So we are thinking like that. We are under the māyā's clutches. "Come on, come on here." Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). He's under the reins of prakṛti. He cannot go anywhere. (pause) (break)

Hanumān: ...simultaneously in the dream and not in the dream. So when...

Morning Walk -- January 23, 1974, Hawaii:

Sudāmā: Yes, yes. He feels he has freedom. He can go anywhere.

Prabhupāda: Only depend on motorcar.

Sudāmā: Yes. Now everyone is very fearful because there is no gas for the motorcar.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali Mardana: They say that a man walking in the street does not feel so big, but once he gets behind the wheel of the motorcar he becomes very puffed up.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is natural. He thinks, "I am motorcar." He identifies. (japa)

Satsvarūpa: We say sense gratification is available for everyone, but they don't agree. They think, "If I don't have this nice apartment it's not the same as sleeping in a bad condition."

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: These are very old questions. These are not very intelligent questions. God is not creating. God is giving you chance. The conditioned souls who are not with Kṛṣṇa, they wanted to enjoy this material world. Therefore God is giving them chance. "All right enjoy (indistinct)," and giving instruction also that you enjoy in this way, so that you may come back again. Just like a father. Children wants to play in the (indistinct). "All right, you play." Then, as soon as he asks, "Please come back. (indistinct), they come back. Similarly this material world, we wanted to enjoy, so Kṛṣṇa has given us freedom, "All right enjoy". And now Kṛṣṇa gives instruction that "now you give up all this (indistinct) come back, then you (indistinct)." He created for you. Same example I always give. Just like the government, when there is formation of the city, jail construction is also there. You cannot say that, "Why government is creating, it is unnecessary, it's premature, construction of jail work(?).

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. Cow... The śūdras, they can take a goat and sacrifice before the deity, goddess Kālī, and then eat. Nobody should be given unrestricted freedom to eat meat. Or wine. If one is adamant to drink wine, then there is Caṇḍī-pūjā, Durgā-pūjā. That means restriction. That means restriction. Under certain condition. Similarly, sex life—marriage. That is also sex life, but under condition.

Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, is this school for women also, or just for men?

Prabhupāda: For men. Women should automatically learn how to cook, how to cleanse home.

Satsvarūpa: So they don't attend varṇāśrama college.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Varṇāśrama college especially meant for the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya and vaiśya. Those who are not fit for education, they are śūdras. That's all. Or those who are reluctant to take education-śūdra means. That's all. They should assist the higher class.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: United States. Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma... (break)

Dr. Patel: ...over-clever or whatever you may call, but the American would be outwitted by a Gujarati baniya if he has got the same money, same, I mean, freedom of business and same facility to work. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the plan is to drive away the Gujaratis from Africa. (laughter) Yes. The Britishers are afraid. The Britishers are afraid that if the Indians, they are allowed to remain here, they will not be able to exploit the Africans.

Dr. Patel: All Indians and all Gujarati baniyas who settled in Africa, one and all are multi-millionaires.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...also.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Girirāja: Well, moist stool or dry...

Prabhupāda: He gave the negroes freedom, Abraham Lincoln?

Girirāja: Yes, emancipation.

Dr. Patel: The Americans say he acted with negroes just we have acted with the aboriginals, the Āryans. What have we done with the poor aboriginals of India?

Prabhupāda: We have... (break) "...one sect. Because we are sitting in Haridvar, and people will come here. And A.C. Bhaktivedanta, he is going." So...

Dr. Patel: Bhaktivedanta has formed a canal to take the spiritual India.

Prabhupāda: So they are now envious. (break) Abaddha karuṇā sindhu, katiya mohan, abaddha karuṇā sindhu, katiya mohan... That "All men, you take..." "Nityānanda has cut open the stagnant water, and now it is overflooded."

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. The hippies' philosophy is that "After all, we have to enjoy sense. So we are getting free, freedom. We can have sense enjoyment, sex life on the street. Why shall I work for the same purpose? We have already got it. You civilized man, you so-called civilized, advanced civilized man, for your sex life, you have to go to the skyscraper building, and we can do it on the street, on the park. We have got better facilities. Why shall I accept your philosophy." They will say, they say like that. (break) ...agree to the fact that they have no knowledge. Everything they are doing whimsically without any purpose. (break) ...from their side. You have to find out, make research.

Satsvarūpa: I know the communists are very much agitated by our activities, the young people that Haihaya is talking about. They say that we are working for the old order by our simply chanting.

Dhanañjaya: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we have to go back. I don't know why, but this part here is all closed in. (break)

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: It is my practical experience. Śyāmasundara had to waste at least two to three hours to secure rice, fruits. Only milk and butter could we get. And then we had to wait in the... They would not allow us to cook unless they had finished. This was the difficulty. Practically I have suffered. All their claims are bogus. The people are not happy there. The young men are not allowed to go outside the country. Just see. All freedom lost. All freedom lost. It is a government of terrorism, that's all. And whatever the Communists do, simply by terrorizing that's all. They have no gentleman's method. Terrorizing. (break) ...misleading other rascals that "You come this way; you will be happy." And the rascals are being misled. They are accepting. This is going on. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). The blind man is asking other blind men, "Come on, I shall cross you the street." But because he is rascal, he does not ask, "Sir, you are also blind. how will you lead us?" They cannot inquire. Or he does not know that "This man is asking me, who is willing to take the leadership, he is also blind." This blind man does not know, do not know. They do not know. This is going on.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Because they are blind, another blind man comes and says that "You will be happy in this way. Come on this way. Your sense gratification will be very much easily satisfied. come on." "Yes. Very good leader." Adānta-gobhiḥ. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pi (SB 7.5.31). They forget that they are bound up by the stringent laws of nature. There is no freedom. Only varieties of sense enjoyment is offered because he want, want, wants. Actually, that is not enjoyment. That is bound up. Nature's... If you enjoy more sex life, nature says, "All right, you become impotent for ten years." And still he wants to enjoy. Little this way, that way—immediately punishment. "Oh, you have eaten more, three days suffer. No diet, no food. Suffer dysentery." And they are enjoying. What is this enjoyment? As soon as violate a little of the nature's law you are immediately punished. Na te viduḥ. Īśa-tantryāṁ baddhāḥ. Īśa-tantryām, the laws of nature, they are so much bound up, hands and legs. Still, they are declaring freedom. What is the freedom? Immediately he will be kicked by shoes as soon as he violates a little, immediately.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: There is ocean of salt. Now we require salt for making our foodstuff very tasty. But if you take little more salt, you cannot eat. No, you cannot eat. If you think, "Oh, so much salt? Let me put more salt, more salt," it will be useless. You can take only so much quantity. That's all. In this way you are bound up, always. And still, you are declaring freedom. What freedom? What is the meaning of this freedom? But they are fools. They cannot understand.

Haihaya: Then Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the right quantity of salt.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is giving you everything in right way so that you can save your time, you do not waste your time, and you can advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is required. We don't say that you stop eating. You eat. Take little Kṛṣṇa prasādam. We don't say that "Don't sleep." No, you sleep, but must rise early in the morning for maṅgala-ārati. This is our philo... Eating, sleeping, and sex. No, we don't say no sex life. Yes, you have sex life. Get your bona fide wife, live peacefully. And defense also, we have. We never say that you forego all these things. No, this is not our philosophy. But similarly, as much as you absolutely require, not more than that. The balance time, save for advancement. These people are simply engaged for eating, sleeping, mating. They have no time for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This condemned civilization must be stopped.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: That means he should be given chance for better conditioning. Conditioning must go on. It cannot be said that "Let the child be given freedom." No.

Yogeśvara: Yeah, that's what they say. They say it's freedom when there is a lack of bad conditioning.

Prabhupāda: That is... Bad condition is good conditioning. Where is freedom? From bad conditioning you are suggesting good conditioning. That is not freedom. Just like you are in the prison house, you are badly conditioned, but the so-called freedom—you are still conditioned under the laws of the state. You are not free. But from bad conditioning to good conditioning. And if you obey the state laws, then you are good citizen. But you are conditioned. How you think of freedom? That is your foolishness. Just like a servant. He is in some mercantile firm. He is trying to seek out some government service. But he cannot be free.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Robert Gouiran: Usual meaning of the word.

Prabhupāda: Yes, What is the usual meaning of the word? First of all you say that...

Robert Gouiran: Renunciation is to get freedom.

Prabhupāda: Renounce means, renounce means, renounce means to give up. This is the ordinary meaning.

Robert Gouiran: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Is it not?

Robert Gouiran: In order to get freedom.

Prabhupāda: So...

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Robert Gouiran: In order to get freedom.

Prabhupāda: So...

Robert Gouiran: Absolute, absolute freedom.

Prabhupāda: So by renouncing you get freedom?

Robert Gouiran: Absolute freedom.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Absolute freedom, that's all right. Take your meaning. But do you think by renouncing... Suppose you are sitting here. You renounce this place. You get freedom?

Robert Gouiran: Uh...

Prabhupāda: Does it mean that you get freedom?

Robert Gouiran: No.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Or you are acting as a scientist. You give up that business. Does it mean your freedom?

Robert Gouiran: Well, renunciation doesn't mean giving up.

Prabhupāda: No, renunciation means giving up.

Robert Gouiran: No, no.

Prabhupāda: Just find out. So what is the meaning of giving up? Why you should give up? You are occupying some business... Suppose you are working as a scientist. So why should you give it up?

Robert Gouiran: Why?

Prabhupāda: Yes. If there is a...

Robert Gouiran: Because it's...

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of renunciation?

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Guru-gaurāṅga: We read in the papers, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that they did a survey among the Capucine priests and fifty percent felt that their spiritual life was hampered by the fact that they could not have intimate relations with women. And forty percent felt that they were not allowed enough freedom and that obedience was not good.

Prabhupāda: Not allowed in...?

Guru-gaurāṅga: Enough freedom.

Prabhupāda: What is that freedom?

Yogeśvara: Illicit principles. Sinful principles.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...fig, there are thousands of seeds. And each seed contains a tree like that. And there are thousands of fruits, figs. Where is that chemist who can prepare such figs? One, in Delhi, when our festival was going on, we invited a big chemist. He admitted that "Our chemical advance, scientific advancement is like this." He explained very nicely. You were present?

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: But so much freedom in sex, how the blood can be pure? (break)

Yogeśvara: ...but Kṛṣṇa-prasādam?

Prabhupāda: Then he's neutral always. He's not affected by all these qualities.

Yogeśvara: I guess the blood becomes purified like that. (break)

Prabhupāda: I said that "You scientists, you are simply wasting time." Did I not say that, last night?

Yogeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Childish. Just imitating barking of the dog. That's all. And he wants to take credit by imitating barking the dog. And the real dog is barking—no attention. Actually, that is the position.

Guru-gaurāṅga: They say that if a dog bites a man, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that's nothing special, but if a man bites a dog, that's news.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) Yes. Just like the men ate some human flesh. That became news.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: You are exploited always. Why do you blame this man or that man? You are being exploited by māyā. Where is your position of freedom?

Yogeśvara: They say, "Well, māyā we cannot fight, but we can fight the government."

Prabhupāda: Why should you fight? If you cannot... Suppose you cannot... Can you fight with death? Māyā, māyā has imposed upon you death. So fight with māyā, that there will be no death. That you cannot do. So you are always, what is called, defeated. That is your position. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So best thing is surrender to Kṛṣṇa for protection. That is wanted. We don't think, "minority." Suppose... Hare Kṛṣṇa people, how many there are in the Paris City? How many?

Yogeśvara: Seventy, eighty.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: But if you do not know what is the meaning of freedom, how you can make them free? (French)

Yogeśvara: So he says the best answer he can give you is an answer that he heard from Maharishi, he said, a very good answer, that before you can come to defining anything positively, first we must say, neti neti: "It is not this, it is not that." Then we have decided what it is not.

Prabhupāda: That I am therefore asking. Whatever he is proposing, I say neti: "It is not" defining. (French)

Yogeśvara: You better translate that one.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Devotee: They compromise just to keep their followers.

Bhagavān: It's a matter of money.

Prabhupāda: And that is freedom. So Rāya Rāmānanda left because such freedom is not allowed here. So we have to allow this freedom like the church? (laughs)

Bhārgava: There was one survey done by a college, a university, Michigan State, and Rūpānuga Mahārāja researched it and said 94% of the people in America, they believe there is a God, but only 35% will go to church. They are not very much interested in the churches anymore. They don't trust them. But 94% believe there is God.

Prabhupāda: Because the church could not help them in understanding God. The Christian church has no idea what is God. Therefore there is no name of God. Actually, they have no idea about God. Is there?

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Misunderstood.

Professor Durckheim: Is something not very agreeable. It's all the authority like this, the not understanding, the not loving, the authority. You see? There are so many fathers who say in their family, "I don't know what you are talking about freedom. In my house everybody can do what I like." So they are very much under this spell today. So I just say this because it's very funny also in this trend of development of religion of today...

Prabhupāda: It is not religion. It is fact. It is not... Religion is sometimes explained as sentiment, but this is fact, that father and son... Without father there is no existence of son, and without son there is no meaning of father. This is science. This is not religion. This is science. As soon as you speak of father means he must have a son, or most. And as soon as a son, he must have a father. So this is a question of "must," not sentiment.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: Absolutely, that's it. But I realize that since about twenty, thirty years there is a big awakening in the western part of the world. Science and the technique coming out of science, which was invented to liberate the human being, right do exactly the contrary. People become more and more slaves of that organization which they created for their freedom.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Yes.

Professor Durckheim: You see? And today we realize the only thing, the only possibility not to be crushed, is to adapt themselves to the technical world, and in adapting themselves to the technical world, they become themselves little wheels of the big machine and stop to be human beings.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Room Conversations -- September 11, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It will go on like that. In America (indistinct), why you are envious of me? That disease is there. His enviousness is a different quality. Actually, comparing with America, the people are more happy in America, not in Russia. It's a fact. I have seen it. They are terrorized, no freedom. So everyone is terrorized, they must be. What is that? Is that life? I have to live under terrorism conditions. I must do it. (indistinct). It is not life.

Brahmānanda: Here comes Gurudāsa. (break)

Gurudāsa: (making notes on tape) Morning, 11 September, 1974, Vṛndāvana. Śrīla Prabhupāda was saying that manager and assisting managers is not difficult, except that all the European and American boys didn't understand the concept of prabhu. We each call each other prabhu, but we are thinking that "I am prabhu and all others are servants." Not that the one I am calling prabhu or the one who is calling me prabhu are mutual prabhus. (break)

Brahmānanda: He's typing the tapes now. To type one tape takes him about eight hours.

Prabhupāda: Eight hours?

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: No. The Bangladesh, they were Bengalis. Although the whole Pakistan, including Bangladesh and the other part, West Pakistan, East Pakistan, Bangladesh... So actually, Bangladesh is bigger than West Pakistan. They should have taken the government, majority. But the West Pakistan, by force they were ruling. They are not majority. So after all, they are Bengalis, maybe Muslim. They're intelligent than these Punjabis. Punjabis, they have got bodily strength, not brain. So these Bengalis, in Mujjhamat Raman, that was his demands, that: "We are majority. Why they should govern us? We should govern over them." This is the movement. So, but they're already in power. So how to throw them out of power? So he negotiated in India, that: "You help us to separate from..." And India's interest is that Pakistan becomes weak by separation, that is India's interest. So India agreed to help them. How to help? They organized a false, er, soldiers. You know? What is called? Bahini. Mean a freedom soldier. They organized freedom soldier. And India consulted Russia. Russia was friendly, that: "We want to help Bangladesh." So they said: "Yes, you help. If there is fight, then we shall help you." This was the... So these bahini, sanan bahini, sandana bahini, or something like that, they organized, "freedom soldiers." The freedom soldier means Indian soldiers. They entered Bangladesh because East Bengal, West Bengal. And they started this freedom soldier. But this is Indian soldier.

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: There is no danger internationally. Suppose... Just like the Buddhists. They have got their all pilgrimages in India. Because Lord Buddha is Indian. He spread Buddhism all over the world. So all the Buddhist relics and pilgrimages are in India. Gaya Pradesh and other, Benares... So India government allow them free, freedom to come here as pilgrimage. So you are now Vaiṣṇava. Why they should not allow you to come to your pilgrimage in India, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's birthplace? You have adopted Lord Caitanya, Lord Kṛṣṇa's birthplace. Legally, they cannot. They should, rather, make arrangement. But, from political point of view, they're thinking that "These Americans have taken to this religious garb. Actually they are intending something political." That is the general impression. C.I.A. What can be done? Therefore I was stressing this point that you Americans, if you make your country strong, Kṛṣṇa conscious, that will be good for the whole world. Actually you are doing that, but they are misunderstanding, in a different way.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Never seen again.

Paramahaṁsa: No one has seen them.

Prabhupāda: Just see. This is their... It is the most fallen country. No freedom. No freedom at all. Horrible country.

Gaṇeśa: Why don't the people revolt if they're so unhappy?

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are revolting, but they are now so much suppressed they cannot... Sometimes there is revolt. Sometimes there is upheaval.

Paramahaṁsa: Not a big upheaval because they are terrorized. They are afraid that if they revolt, then they...

Prabhupāda: They will be killed.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One thing they say is that the parents are not allowing the children the freedom to choose whether they want to be trained in this way or not. They are forcing the children to be trained in a very limited view, only Kṛṣṇa.

Bahulāśva: And they say that by repetitive chanting...

Prabhupāda: That means they do not know Kṛṣṇa means everything. That they do not know.

Bahulāśva: And big professors are saying that just by reading Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you can learn everything. All the knowledge is given in there.

Prabhupāda: That is the Vedic injunction. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, then you understand everything.

Dr. Gerson: My observation of the children here has been that they've been very happy and that they're very involved in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: At least, they can make this distinction, that our children is not smoking. (laughter)

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Yes. Unless he has got mind, how he misuses intelligence?

John Mize: But he misused that intelligence in his freedom, his independence.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Mind is there also. That is spiritual mind. Everything is spiritual. There is nothing material. Body spiritual, mind spiritual, intelligence spiritual, he is spiritual, the land spiritual, water spiritual—everything is spiritual. That is spiritual world. Here in the material world, except the spirit soul, everything is material. And he is encumbered with this material atmosphere by twenty-seven stratas, layers. The five elements, gross elements, then ten senses, and then three guṇas... In this way there are twenty-seven layers. He is within, and he has to be taken out. That is called liberation. Just like if you are covered with twenty-seven layers of dirty things, so it is very difficult position. But there is process to clear the garbage and take him out. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious movement, to take the soul out of the covering of twenty-seven layers of material atmosphere. That śloka is naṣṭa-prāyeṣu abhadreṣu: "almost cleansed." Abhadra, abhadra means dirty things. So this clearing process going on.

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all. (break) ...spiritual education, that "I am spiritual, spirit soul. I am encaged in this body. I want freedom. That is my first business, how to become liberated." No, that question set aside. Now, for the time being, we are walking here, and if there is some misunderstanding, we fight, forgetting that we have come here for walking, say, for half an hour. And why we shall forget our real business? That intelligence is not there. (break) ...India the Indira Gandhi was made as all in all. Now there is a catastrophe. We do not know what is going to happen.

Brahmānanda: They say she is the most powerful woman in the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes, very powerful. Now she is going to hell, so powerful. She is so powerful, now she is going to hell.

Kāśīrāma: The United Nations has declared this year International Woman's Year so that all the women can gain more liberation from the bondage of being under the supremacy of man.

Prabhupāda: But how to get liberation, not being pregnant?

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: This is nonsense, to give free choice to the child. This is nonsense. Child should be protected. That is intelligence. That is the wrong type of consciousness. According to Vedic civilization, a child, a woman, a brāhmaṇa, a cow, and an old man they should be given protection, not freedom, but protection.

Jayatīrtha: At the same time in that Time article it discussed that about fifty percent of the crime was done by children under eighteen and people are afraid even to go to the schools.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are not educated properly. Not only that they have given photograph: the children take small..., yes, weapon, knife. And examination is held under police vigilance. This is the education.

Mrs. Wax: Some of us are parents of devotees and when you came to America nine years ago, eight years ago...

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So that has happened. Because the woman does not agree to be subordinate—she wants equal freedom—so the husband goes away and the woman is embarrassed with the children. And it becomes a burden to the government.

Woman reporter: Is there anything wrong when the woman works?

Prabhupāda: There are so many things wrong. But first thing is the wife, the woman, the wife of somebody, and the child born by somebody, they should become burden to the government or to the public. First of all answer this thing. Why she should become burden to the government? What is your answer? Do you think, from social point of view, this position of woman and the fatherless children are very nice thing? No.

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: According to Manu-saṁhitā, which is Vedic laws, it is said that "Woman is not to be given freedom." They have to be protected. According to Vedic civilization, women, children, old man, brāhmaṇa, and cow—they are to be given protection. The state should give protection. (break) ...the defect of modern civilization is that vox populi.

Nitāi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Everything is passed by popular vote. But that is also defective.

Brahmānanda: You brought that out nicely by giving the example of Nixon. He received the largest popular vote of any president in the history, and he was also then pulled down.

Prabhupāda: Indira Gandhi also. She got the largest number of vote...

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say they are cheating you in the name of independence. That you do not understand. Therefore 34 ounce. They are cheating you, and you are thinking you are independent.

Sandy Nixon: They forget the responsibility that comes with freedom.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they do not take the responsibility. They go away. They enjoy and go away. And the woman has to take the responsibility, either kill the child or maintainer, begging. Do you think begging is very good? In India, although they are poverty-stricken, still, they do not remain independent. They remain under the husband, and the husband takes all responsibility. So she has neither to kill the child nor go to beg for maintaining the child. So which is independence? to remain under husband is independence or to become free to be enjoyed by everyone?

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Sandy Nixon: That's not where the freedom is anyway.

Prabhupāda: So there is no freedom; still, they think that they have freedom. That means under some plea, the men are cheating the women, that's all. So in the name of independence, they have agreed to be cheated by another class. This is the situation.

Sandy Nixon: In spite of that, can women know Kṛṣṇa as...

Prabhupāda: We have no such distinction.

Sandy Nixon: No distinction...

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: She has divorced two husbands. And when the press reporters asked her, she replied, "Yes, it was a mistake." And still, they want to be equal with man. She commits mistake twice in two week, and still she claims to be equal with man. So we have got our school, Dallas, we are teaching the small children to make the boys first-class men, as it is enunciated in the Bhagavad-gītā, and woman to become very faithful and chaste. That's all. This is our education. Then it will be very happy home and people will live very peacefully, and then other things can be executed. If the home is not peaceful, always disturbed in mind, and one has to adopt twice in a week divorce, then how there can be peace? This is not freedom, this is disturbance. Freedom does not mean disturbance of peace. Freedom means that maintenance of peace.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So this instruction is strīṣu duṣṭāsu: "When women become polluted, there is unwanted population." That is coming all over the world, the hippies. Therefore the first thing is how to train up women not to become polluted. This is the way of... In the modern society they have given women freedom. That I have already explained. In the name of freedom of woman, they are being exploited. Everything is there: social, religious, political, cultural, educational. We have to accept that course. Then everything will be all right. If you don't accept, then you have to suffer problems. It is not meant for a particular class of men or particular country, it is meant for the whole human society. Therefore, this purification of the society at the present, fallen condition is very, very difficult to revive. Because people are so fallen, it is almost impossible. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended that "You all together chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and everything will be done nicely."

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Free will... Just like a man commits theft by his free will. But when he is put into jail, then no more free will. He has to act according to the jail superintendent. But his beginning of jail life is free will. Nobody asked him that "You go to jail." But why he has come? He knows also that "When I am put into jail, I will lose all my freedom." He knows that. Still, he comes. Why does he come? He knows that. That is called ajñāna. Mūḍha. That is called mūḍha. He knows; still, he does.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He is taking a chance.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that means he is becoming implicated.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He thinks that maybe he will be free, that..., if sometimes there's also a chance that he will be caught.

Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: And what is the benefit of remaining with the parents to become hippies? For training. We are trying to train first-class men. So if, from the very beginning of life, one is trained... That is the Vedic civilization. Kaumāraṁ ācaret prajño dharmān bhāgavatān iha. "One should be trained up to become God conscious from the very beginning of life," kaumāra. Kaumāra means after five years. Up to five years the children may have all freedom. Whatever he likes, he may do. But when he is five years old, he must be under training. That is the old system. Gurukula means to send the boy, especially boy, not the girl, to be trained up at the place of the spiritual master or teacher. Just like what is that public school? They also send their small children to the public school. Montesori? What is that?

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Kṣatriya marriage, without fighting, there is no kṣatriya marriage. For one prince, there are so many candidates. So they must fight between themselves and decide who is the hero. Then he will be allowed to marry. There was no such freedom: the princess are loitering in the street and you can take as many as you like.

Devotee: The price was blood, huh?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: Plenty blood.

Prabhupāda: That is prince. They are not cheap, loitering street. Every father of the prince made some bet. Just like Arjuna got Draupadī. How difficult it was! There was a fish on the ceiling, and you cannot see in this way. You have to see. There is a water pot, and you have to pierce the eyes of the fish. Then you will get this prince. So many failure. It is not so easy job, see the eyes from the shadow, and in this way you have to pierce. It is not so easy job.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: But everyone wants sunshine. Why in one place denied, and one place there is sunshine? You are not free. Even though you want sunshine, there is no sunshine. So how you feel free? You bring sunshine. But that is not happening. There is superior arrangement. So to accept that superior arrangement, that is real business, not to declare freedom falsely. That is not possible. If I say, "I am free from the law-abiding process, law given by government; I am free from the law of the government," that is not possible. If you become outlaw, then you will be arrested and put into jail. So what is the use of declaring that "I am free from the government laws"? There is no freedom. Whatever little freedom is given to us, if you utilize it properly, that is very nice. If we unnecessarily declare that "I am free from any obligation," that is madman's proposal. That is the mistake of the modern man, that, especially in the Western countries, unnecessarily they are declaring freedom in so many ways. Unnecessarily. He is not free, but he is declaring.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: The freedom is declared by persons who are completely under the clutches of māyā. He declares freedom. And he is so much haunted by the ghost māyā that he thinks his bondage as freedom. Just like a drug-addicted person or drunkard. He is thinking, "I am free." He lies down on the street sometimes in madness: "Who can forbid me?" You have seen madmen lying on the street... I have seen it, all traffic stopped. So this kind of freedom has no meaning. It is involving oneself with the strict laws of māyā. There is no freedom. And just like a child. If he becomes free from the parents, it is not good; it is dangerous. His life is at risk. If a child without the help of the parents go on the street, is... That freedom is nice? That kind of freedom. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that "Whatever little freedom you have got, just surrender that freedom to Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ (BG 18.66). (to someone:) You can come forward.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: Give him front seat. Give him a pad.

Jayatīrtha: The professors can come up here in the front. (break)

Ṛṣabhadeva: ...and Mr. Surface, professors, of theology and economics respectively.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. I was talking with this boy about freedom. And so I say that there is no freedom for us. We are always dependent. So what is your opinion about it?

Mr. Surface: I agree with that.

Prabhupāda: Thank you. Take Bhagavad-gītā. Find out this verse. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarva... Who can read very distinctly? You will do or he will do? Give to him.

Car Conversation -- August 3, 1975, Detroit:

Brahmānanda: And they received the benefit.

Prabhupāda: That means they are commanding.

Brahmānanda: Recently one famous author came to America. He was a freedom fighter, freedom author.

Satsvarūpa: Prabhupāda knows about him.

Jagadīśa: Solzhenitsyn.

Brahmānanda: Solzhenitsyn. Did you see him when you went to Moscow? Śyāmasundara was saying.

Prabhupāda: No. There was proposal.

Brahmānanda: He talks so much, Śyāmasundara. He told a whole story, that you went outside Moscow to some colony, artist colony. He was living there.

Prabhupāda: I think Śyāmasundara went to see him.

Car Conversation -- August 3, 1975, Detroit:

Brahmānanda: Because he was afraid. He was advised by Kissinger that "If you see him, then the Russian leaders, they will become angry upon you." So he refused to see him. So this received a great deal of criticism in America, that "We are for freedom and here he is coming, freedom fighter, and you refused to see him simply to pacify the Russian leaders." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...was a fault?

Satsvarūpa: His fault is that he spoke out against the whole Russian...

Brahmānanda: He speaks very strongly, condemns the Russian system.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Russian, it is terrorism.

Brahmānanda: Yes. And he says that America should not become, try to become friendly, but should try to defeat them.

Prabhupāda: So Russian government did not take any step against him?

Car Conversation -- August 3, 1975, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: At night? Why?

Jagadīśa: Drink.

Brahmānanda: Drinking and sex.

Prabhupāda: So why the Americans gave them freedom?

Ambarīṣa: They thought they were being humanitarian.

Prabhupāda: And now they are afraid of them.

Ambarīṣa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is a redundant house. (?)

Brahmānanda: I think it stopped raining now.

Prabhupāda: No, it is past seven. (end)

Morning Walk -- August 6, 1975, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: It is defective training, bad civilization. They cannot employ everyone. (break) ...religion stresses that everyone should be engaged. No one should remain idle. That is the government's duty. Bad government.

Ādi-keśava: But the government says it is every man's freedom to work or not to work.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is his irresponsible government: "It is man's freedom—he may eat or may not eat." It is saying like that.

Ambarīṣa: They would rather not work if they don't have to.

Prabhupāda: Why we are working? Eh? Why we are not for that freedom, that "We shall not work"? Why we have engaged ourself for working?

Morning Walk -- September 1, 1975, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: Some boys, they escaped from one country, I think Rumania. And they came to our temple. They had heard about our movement, so they came to our temple. They stayed for a little while, but then they were wanting to leave. So they left, and immediately they were apprehended by the authorities in... I think it was in Sweden. And now they are put into camps, they cannot leave, they have to be processed, and practically they are again in jail. They have no freedom. They cannot get a job. They have no passport. It will take them years to get all the papers in order. They have to be investigated to see that they are not spies. So again they are still in the miserable condition.

Prabhupāda: So miserable condition... That is our conclusion, that either you remain this side or that side, it is miserable. By mental concoction you think that "This is better than that." Therefore Kṛṣṇa says frankly, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). That is only shelter. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam nāpnuvanti (BG 8.15). (break) ...take Kṛṣṇa's words as it is. Everything is there. He said, "This material world is duḥkhālayam; it is the place of suffering." Industrialist, businessman, anyone, even ordinary man, actually everyone is suffering, but everyone is thinking, "I am happy." (break)

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But earn or not earn, I am enjoying relaxation.

Brahmānanda: You're not entitled unless you work very hard.

Prabhupāda: Oh. That is nonsense.

Upendra: In America they say you have to pay for freedom.

Prabhupāda: No, freedom, if I have got already, why shall I pay? I have already paid. Why you're inducing? I am already enjoying. Why you are inducing me to work hard? I have paid for it. By my karma in my previous life I have already paid for that; therefore I am enjoying.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't believe in the law of karma.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals. Rascal. This is a rascal civilization. Rascal civilization: one side, they say contraceptive; another side, they will encourage woman to marry three times a week. This is their civilization. If you want stop population why you are inducing "Indulge in sex life"? Stop sex life—brahmacārī. Everything is contradictory.

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. That Kṛṣṇa is not a nonsense like you. Because Kṛṣṇa has given you little freedom He does not want to touch it. That is Kṛṣṇa. What He gives, He never takes it back. It is not a nonsensical award that "I give you sometimes; then I take it away." Kṛṣṇa does not do such. He has given you little freedom, so you can use it. Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63), Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad..., "Whatever you like, you do." That freedom is taken by nature. You are human being. If you do not engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then nature will withdraw this privilege and you'll become a dog. Kṛṣṇa does not take, but His agent, māyā, will take it away. Just like the police is the agent of the king or the government. The government does not care what you are doing. But if you do something criminal the police will punish you.

Brahmānanda: But we're going to change the laws of nature.

Morning Walk -- September 25, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Brahmānanda: They think it is freedom to be able to do whatever you feel, whatever you want.

Prabhupāda: Rascal, where is your freedom? You are kicked out like football from one life to another. Where is your freedom, rascal? That they do not know. Therefore they are śūdras. He is being kicked out like football from this pole to that pole, and still he is thinking, "I am free."

Brahmānanda: They think reformation is a restriction.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Reformation means restriction. Civilized means restriction. Aryan means restriction. That is civilized life. Unrestricted life means cats and dogs. Laws are meant for restriction, and they are meant for the human society, not for the cats and dogs. Why the legislative assembly is there? Why the cars are going right or left? It is meant for the civilized person, not for the cats and dogs. So civilization means restriction. A dog can have sex life on the street, but you cannot have. That is restriction because you are civilized.

Morning Walk -- September 29, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. We learn that na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "This is my position. I am eternal. So why I am obliged to accept body which is hanyamāna?" These questions do not bother them. And where is my freedom? "I am eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). I do not die after the destruction of my body. Then why I am put into this body which will be destroyed, which will become old, useless? And where is my freedom?" These things do not bother them, and they are reader of Bhagavad-gītā.

Indian man (6): Somebody told that they are made to come here...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian man (6): Is it the sin of some of the...?

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: This argument we have talked many times. Everyone knows that out of prisonhouse freedom is there. Why he goes to the prisonhouse? Everyone knows it. Why does he go to the prisonhouse?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Not by choice. He is placed there.

Cyavana: Kṛṣṇa is the supreme controller. If He wanted to check us from going there, He could check us from going into the prison, from offending.

Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa has given you independence. So you are.... By mentality, you have to suffer. Suppose if a child wants to do something, play, if you check it, check it, then he will go mad. Just like mother Yasoda was showing stick to Kṛṣṇa, and when Kṛṣṇa became so much afraid, he (she) became immediately anxious: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has too much anxiety. He may fall sick." So immediately throw away. So this is father-mother's affection.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. He has given you little freedom. He doesn't want to take your freedom.

Harikeśa: You gave two examples in Los Angeles about the master, big master, like president of DuPont walking his dog. The president of DuPont is walking his dog in Central Park. The dog makes him go this way and this way and this way. And you said we are just passing stool and urine in the material world, and Kṛṣṇa is just letting us run here and there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anumantā. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, anumantā, upadraṣṭā.

Cyavana: In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta in one of your purports you gave the example of Paramātmā being compared to when there is a circus in a village the government sends one inspector to watch over the activities. Then, when the circus goes, he is no longer there. Could you explain it? (pause)

Morning Walk -- October 25, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: In warmer climate you can live inexpensively, and freely. In winter climate, there is no freedom, neither it is inexpensive. Very expensive. (break) ...some Phunsie(?). Phunsie.

Harikeśa: Oh, those potato balls.

Prabhupāda: Hm. With banana.

Harikeśa: With banana.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...the government accept you as guide, then everything will be all right. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Tell them that "We are not going to take any salary. You simply take our advice, and govern." The modern legislative assembly, they should be composed of first-class brāhmaṇas, no salary. Then the government will be first-class. All of them are after money; therefore they are trying to capture the power. They have no idea, no desire for the well-being of the citizens. (break) ...this tree? Dates?

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: (break)...the name of this park?

Cyavana: It means freedom. When they were able to obtain their freedom from the British rule they made this park and they called it Uhuru Park.

Prabhupāda: How they got freedom?

Cyavana: They had to fight.

Prabhupāda: Fight?

Cyavana: Yes, they had to fight.

Prabhupāda: Regular violence?

Cyavana: Oh, yes. Very violent.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: British soldiers, so long, how they'll come? They were using Indian soldiers.

Indian: I know that Indian peoples, they helped them to get this freedom. That is the reason they have a little bit respect for the Indians now, this president.

Prabhupāda: How Indian people helped them?

Brahmānanda: They would give their... These groups of guerillas, the Indians would supply them and use their facilities and their farm houses. And then also, legally, the Indians were able to give, from their experience in India. They were able to make some government, some kind of a freedom government system. They agitated to get representation in the Parliament, and they became... When independence came there were many Indians as M.P.'s here. And even when Kenyatta was put on trial by the British, his chief lawyer was a Britisher, but the second lawyer was an Indian.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Indian: I was talking with a judge. He is a Sikh gentleman here. So he told me that "In the freedom we all helped, and I was not a judge at that time. I was ordinary advocate. So I play a nice role to get them freedom, so they appointed me a judge after that." Now he is judge since last fifteen years.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Cyavana: Is that Makhajee?

Indian: No.

Brahmānanda: The Indians had the experience of the independence in India to draw on for inspiration and also for their strategies and so on, to guide the Africans.

Prabhupāda: And now they are trying to drive away Indians.

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is correct. Still I have got.

Dr. Patel: I have got also. Because then it was American president who supported the freedom movement of India. But unfortunately Dulles spoiled the speech.

Prabhupāda: No, I am not speaking from that point of view. I see that the Americans, they have helped me in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Dr. Patel: You, but the whole India, they helped. It is only you.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I feel obliged to them. Nobody helped me. These boys helped me.

Dr. Patel: It was your President Roosevelt, by whose action, I mean, Mr. Churchill began to lose his grip on India.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise even a devotee like Bhārata Mahārāja, he had to accept the body of a deer. A little careless. Then nature's law will act. Hm? If you do not become cautious and if you infect the smallpox disease, you have to suffer. Therefore a civilized man takes process, caution, "Oh there is smallpox disease, I shall not go there. Or if I go there, I must take vaccine." This is human civilization, caution. And if you are animal, you do not know. So human life means not animal life. Very reasonable, very cautious, educated, cultured, that is human life. Not animal life. Drink like animal, or eat like animal, have sex life like animal. Freedom, animal has got all freedom. So that freedom is not allowed to the human beings. That is civilization. The same example. The animal has got freedom and you'll see in Indian market, vegetable market, some cow comes and eats, takes so many vegetables and eats, but he's not going to the court. But if you take one small piece of chili without, then you'll go to the court. So therefore, law is meant for human beings, not for the animals. Those who want to be free, they are animals. So-called freedom means animalism.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa!

Passerby: (carries on singing on his way) Govinda jaya, gopāla jaya...

Prabhupāda: This declaration of freedom is animal. Animal freedom.

Passerby: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa! Thank you. They are struggling for false freedom. This is not freedom. This is becoming entangled. And when we voluntarily give up all freedom, "This is all nonsense! Kṛṣṇa, I surrender unto you." Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān (BG 7.19), then he's really wise. When he fully surrenders to Kṛṣṇa.

Caitya-guru: Then he knows, Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19).