Prabhupāda: Of course, this discovery is by the Vaiṣṇava, Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava. Just like the love between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, it is called parakiya. They are not married husband and wife. But Rādhārāṇī appears to be wife of some other gentleman. But Kṛṣṇa, from childhood, They were friends. So Radhārāṇī could not forget Kṛṣṇa. She used to come to Kṛṣṇa and stand like that. That's all. And He was playing. Kiśora-Kiśorī, They were boy and girl. But there is no inebriety. Just like here the boy and girls mix and there are so many abominable things. Distressful, which is binding their material bondage. So that friendship between boy and girl is there, but without inebriety. Kṛṣṇa had so many gopīs, girlfriend, but there was no contraceptive pills. (laughter) That is the beauty. Here, the so-called love is lust. And there, that is the highest. The same thing, obverted, perverted reflection. Just like in the original tree the topmost part has come down to the down.
Forget Krsna (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"forget Krishna"
|"forget Krsna"
|"forgetful of Krishna"
|"forgetful of krsna"
|"forgetfulness of Krsna"
|"forgetfulness of krsna"
|"forgets Krsna"
|"forgets krishna"
|"forgetting Krishna"
|"forgetting Krsna"
|"forgetting krishna"
|"forgetting krsna"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is very natural. Just like... (knock on door) Come on. Because jīva, although parā śaktī, he has got independence. So when he wants to imitate Kṛṣṇa... In the spiritual world Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer, and all others, they are enjoyed. Predominator and the predominating. The Lord is the predominating, so there is no disagreement. There they know, "The Lord is predominator. We have to serve." When this service attitude is impaired, that "Why serve Kṛṣṇa? Why not ourself?" that is māyā. Then he falls down in the material energy. There is no scope... Just like in the government system, there is no scope of freedom. You have to act according to government state laws. So long you are agreement, then you are free. If you disagree, then you are placed within the prison house. Similarly, jīva, independent, not fully independent, but they have got. Because part and part of God, therefore that independence quality is there. So when that independence quality is misused, then his place is in the material world. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāṅchā kare. When we forget Kṛṣṇa and try to lord it over something... And Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. When we try to imitate His lordship, then our place is in the material world. We are given freedom, "All right, you lord it over here."
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: They also do not want fight but they are forced. They do not want to fight. Because they're... Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In the Kali-yuga everyone is śūdra. What he'll fight? Fighting is not the business of a śūdra. It is meant for the kṣatriya. And nobody is being trained as kṣatriya or brāhmaṇa. Everyone is being trained as śūdra or utmost vaiśya, how to make money. That's all. One class of men is being trained how to serve and get some money, another class is being trained how to make money by exploitation. That is capitalist and communist. The communists are the śūdras. They are protesting that "You are exploiting us and getting money. It must stop." That is Communism. Is it not? And the vaiśyas, they are trying to exploit others. Some way or other bring money. So there are these capitalists and śūdra and vaiśya. There is no kṣatriya, there is no brāhmaṇa. Therefore the whole social structure is lost. So we are trying to create some brāhmaṇas. And people if follow our instruction then whole social structure is again revived. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we have got very serious mission. Don't be fickle. When you have come and sacrificed your life for the mission, don't be fickle. Be very steady and capture Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet tightly. You'll never be attacked by māyā. Otherwise as soon as you give up Kṛṣṇa, māyā is ready. Just like side by side there is sun... shadow and light. If you push little from light then go to shadow. This is already side by side māyā and Kṛṣṇa. So as soon as you forget Kṛṣṇa-māyā. As soon as you give up māyā, then Kṛṣṇa. (pause) So Pradyumna is transcribing everyday?
Reporter: In India?
Prabhupāda: In India everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious. They are trying to forget Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Reporter: Oh, we are. I see.
Prabhupāda: Everyone Kṛṣṇa conscious. Who does not know Kṛṣṇa?
Reporter: That's right, sir, that is we are very poor specimens. I mean every...
Prabhupāda: No. By force you are trying to forget Kṛṣṇa, that's all.
Reporter: Sir, I beg your pardon, sir. We are very poor specimens.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. You're a very good boy.
Bob: O.K. Thank you. (break)
Prabhupāda: It is very simple. The living entities forgetting Kṛṣṇa, they are in this material world. Kṛṣṇa means His name, His form, His abode, His pastimes, everything.
Bob: What was that last?
Prabhupāda: Pastimes.
Bob: Pastimes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like, when you speak of king, it means king's government, king's palace, king's queen, king's son, secretaries, military strength, everything. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (exits car)
Devotee (1): Someday by Kṛṣṇa's grace we'll put a big festival right here. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa. When there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is no longer material. That is spiritual.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Those of us who have been blessed by your teachings, we still are conditioned to forget Kṛṣṇa. It's very painful when we forget. I know myself, I am still a rascal. It's very difficult when I forget. (break)
Prabhupāda: It is your duty to give protection.
Devotee (1): When he was very small, he came back from the temple one Sunday chanting and dancing, and finally we went to see what it was. (end)
Prabhupāda:
- kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vañcha kare
- pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare
After forgetting Kṛṣṇa, one wants to lord it over the material nature, but he becomes... (break) Especially in the Western world, everywhere attracted sex life. Mini-skirt so that the other party may be attracted. So many means and ways they want to avoid the after-results of sex life, contraceptive. The center is sex life. They are giving up everything, the hippies, but sex is there. That they cannot give up. So-called giving up, but they cannot give up the real central point. So this is māyā. He's captured by this one idea, mithuna. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). Everyone is attracted by this sex life. We are trying to use this sex life in different way. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇa-bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. They're becoming diseased in so many ways.
Prabhupāda: That is because their purpose is not strong. That is due to māyā, forgetfulness. Just like darkness and light; if your light is strong, there is no darkness. But if you have no light, or if your light is not very strong, there is darkness. This is the principle: If you want to drive away darkness, you must bring light. That is the only medicine. You don't have to make a separate endeavor to drive away darkness. As soon as you bring light, darkness will go. The motto of our magazine Back To Godhead is: "Godhead is light, nescience is darkness. Where there is Godhead there is no nescience." This is also the Vedic
injunction: Don't remain in darkness; come to the light. How is this possible? When I flew to London from Los Angeles, there was no darkness, for we did not allow the sun to set, you remain always in light. This means that if you don't forget Kṛṣṇa, your life will be successful. If you aim your plane westward and don't stop, you will remain in sunlight all the time. Similarly, if you remain in Kṛṣṇa consciousness by the simple method of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, you will never see the darkness. This is because Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name are absolute; Kṛṣṇa is not different from His name. Kṛṣṇa is light, and if we associate with the name of Kṛṣṇa, we remain in light.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Jayatīrtha: If Kṛṣṇa is the source of both remembrance and forgetfulness...
Prabhupāda: Yes. When Kṛṣṇa sees that "Here is a rascal, so let him forget Me." So He will give him intelligence so that he can forget Kṛṣṇa for good. Not for good—at least for some time.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is the desire of the individual soul.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). "As one surrenders unto Me, according to that." Real process is surrender. So if you surrender with some reservation, with some ulterior motive, then Kṛṣṇa will give you proportionately intelligence. When you are cent percent without any reservation surrender, then you get all facility, all help from Kṛṣṇa, without asking... Just like a small child, he is fully surrendered unto the parent. The parent looks after all the necessities. He doesn't ask anything. That is wanted.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: They accept one energy. We accept also that. But they, defect is they are beginning from the material. That is their method. Just like this weather is beginning from the light and gradually it is becoming dark. So darkest part or the dark part is called material. But the dark is beginning from light, not the light is beginning from dark. That is their method. They are thinking that from matter, consciousness is coming. Now consciousness is there. When it is covered, degraded, that is unconsciousness. So material means when the consciousness is forgetful of Kṛṣṇa. That is material. Material means gradual development of forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa. That is material. And spiritual means full consciousness of Kṛṣṇa. Is it clear? Try to understand this. Darkness is coming from light. Where the light is not visible that is called darkness. This is not the nature of the sun, this covering, cloudy nature. That is not the... The nature of sun is light, but by the energy of the sun another thing is temporary created which is called mist or darkness.
Prabhupāda: They do not know this art.
Reporter: Kṛṣṇa connection, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Reporter: Now people know only "French Connection," they're forgetting Kṛṣṇa connection. (laughs) Yes, very true.
Prabhupāda: But we see everything has got Kṛṣṇa connection. Therefore we utilize it for Kṛṣṇa. Just like you're talking about Kṛṣṇa, it is being recorded. So it is useful for Kṛṣṇa's service. Why should I give it up? Because the airplane is there, therefore my preaching has been easier. Every year I'm wandering all over the world, twice, thrice. Because if you use airplane. So why shall I give it up? It is giving me facility to preach my Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, why shall I give it up? It is mithyā. Just like the Jains, they do not ride on car, but if by going in a car I can go and preach, very swiftly, and come back again, why shall I give up this car? So our philosophy is not like that. Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate. It is yukta-vairāgya. We have no attachment for all these things. We are sitting in this palatial building, that's all right. But you can talk things under the tree. But if I sit down underneath a tree nobody will come to me. (everyone laughs) So why shall I do that? This is our philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Haṁsadūta: Purport: "This is the duty of everyone to mold his life in such a way that he will not forget Kṛṣṇa in any circumstance. Everyone has to work for maintenance of his body and soul together, and Kṛṣṇa recommends herein that one should work for Him. Everyone has to eat something to live. Therefore he should accept the remnants of foodstuffs offered to Kṛṣṇa. Any civilized man has to perform some religious..."
Prabhupāda: "You give Me." "Whatever you eat, you give Me," Kṛṣṇa says.
Haṁsadūta: "Any civilized man has to perform some religious ritualistic ceremonies. Therefore Kṛṣṇa recommends..."
Haṁsadūta: This is vaidikī.
Sudāmā: That's no good.
Prabhupāda: That's no good. That is not good. That means he'll... Very soon he'll again forget Kṛṣṇa. He'll again forget Kṛṣṇa.
Sudāmā: Actually, the other element is so powerful. These people here, because, even though they are part of Kṛṣṇa's family, but because they have forgotten, then we become influenced by their forgetfulness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Forgetfulness means māyā.
Sudāmā: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Māyā is nothing. It is a forgetfulness. That's all. It has no existence. Forgetfulness, it does not stand. But so long it is there, it is very troublesome.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you want to be cheated, you go to the cheater. That's all. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). Kṛṣṇa is intelligent, superintelligent. If you are a cheater, He'll cheat you. He'll cheat you. First-class cheat, Kṛṣṇa. But if you're actually sincere, then He'll give you the right thing. That is stated in the Bhag..., mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: (BG 15.15) "Everything is coming from Me: smṛtiḥ, remembrance, and forgetfulness." If you are a cheater, Kṛṣṇa will give you such intelligence, you'll forget Kṛṣṇa forever.
Dr. Wolfe: Śrīla Prabhupāda, so it is so, "Birds of a feather flock together." The cheaters flock together.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Birds of the same feather flock together."
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Yaśodānandana: To build the temple for Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma in Vṛndāvana.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is good. Whatever possible facility is available from any person, we beg for it for Kṛṣṇa's service, not for our personal benefit. (break) ...they forget Kṛṣṇa. They forget Kṛṣṇa. When they go to worship some other demigod, they forget Kṛṣṇa, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.20), because they have got so strong material desires that they forget Kṛṣṇa. That is harmful. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣām (BG 7.23). They get some benefit out of the demigod, but that will not stay. Alpavat, er, antavat. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣām. But if you take Kṛṣṇa, then it is not antavat, it will go on increasing. If you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it will never end. It will increase. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam, increasing. The ocean does not increase, but Kṛṣṇa consciousness is such a great ocean that it increases only. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam.
Prabhupāda: ...enjoy in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Don't forget Kṛṣṇa, Then you are well. Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate. Such a nice park. If we hold saṅkīrtana, people gather and enjoy distribution of prasādam, then it becomes very nice. And only to come here to find out sex facilities, then going to ruin. (Aside:) Give me that. (japa) Very good park. (break) ...and for class of people, talking. This is required, philosophical talk, those who will understand. For mass of people kīrtana is sufficient.
Bali Mardana: Kīrtana and prasādam.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bali Mardana: And then when you start to talk, they become fidgety. (laughter)
Sudāmā: Or they want to argue.
Bali-mardana: Or cloud.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Cloud. māyā is cloud. So what is that cloud?
Sudāmā: Forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That cloud is when a soul desires to become the master. That is cloud. (japa)
- kṛṣṇa bhūlīya jīva bhoga-vañchā kare
- pasate māyā tare japaṭiya dhare
As soon as a soul desires to be enjoyer, then he is immediately captured by māyā. (japa) (break) ...see the land?
Bali-mardana: You can go. I saw it yesterday.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Bali-mardana: I think it is in the opposite direction of the temple.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...formation of water?
Prabhupāda: Is that all right?
Satsvarūpa: Eternally liberated and eternally conditioned.
Prabhupāda: Eternally liberated, they never forget Kṛṣṇa. There is no period throughout the existence... There is no question of existence. It is their all existence. Never touched by māyā, forgetfulness. That is nitya-mukta. (break)
Pañcadraviḍa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were talking that a person, he can come up to that position of nitya-mukta by either following the principles of sādhana-bhakti or causeless mercy, or you said there was also the question of kṛpā, the kṛpā-siddhi, that one can attain perfection...
Prabhupāda: No, that is sādhana-bhakti.
Prabhupāda: So the sky is one. Sky is one. So in the sky, in the atmosphere, where God is forgotten, that is called material sky. And the sky where God is not forgotten, that is spiritual sky. Just like the sky is one, and the sun is one. But when your eyes are covered by cloud, you say the cloudy sky. The sky is not cloudy. The sky is one, it is always clear. But some portion of the sky there is cloud, and you say, "This is cloudy." (break) Similarly, materialism means when you forget Kṛṣṇa, that is material. And when you know Kṛṣṇa and act for Kṛṣṇa, that is spiritual.
Prof. Regamay: Now, one question still. Why in the Ṛg Veda there is not even the name of Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Oh yes, Viṣṇu, there is. Viṣṇu and Kṛṣṇa, I have already. There is no difference.
Bhagavān: So we can walk to the car through here. Will there come a time when people will become disgusted with the scientists and reject them?
Prabhupāda: No. They'll more and more forget Kṛṣṇa. This is Kali-yuga. On account of these blind leaders. Don't you see that this rascal Darwin's theory, that is very much appreciated? Any movement which tries to get out God, very much appreciated, that is very much appreciated. That is scientific. "You forget God," that is scientific. And as soon as you speak of God, "You are primitive, old type." That's all. "You are conservative." That, another rascal, Allen Ginsberg, he was speaking, "Swamiji, you are very conservative." Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... (pause) (break)
Prabhupāda: The, the... When he forgets that he cannot enjoy, the only enjoyer is God, Kṛṣṇa, when he forgets this principle he wants to enjoy.
M. Lallier: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is called illusion, māyā. Actually, he cannot enjoy, but, forgetting Kṛṣṇa, the real enjoyer, he wants to enjoy. That is his... Just like a child imitates the mother for cooking. The other day, in Geneva, the fire ceremony was going on. The mother was offering oblations, and the child also immediately took some and he... You have seen that?
Yogeśvara: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: So he's not fit for that business, but he imitates. That is childish. Sometimes goes to the kitchen, wants to make foodstuff, preparation, and he is given some toys that "You just play with it." So every living entity is part and parcel of God. So God is enjoyer, God is controller. So he wants to imitate God. That is called māyā. (French)
Prabhupāda: The māyā is explained very nicely in the Bhāgavata, yathābhāso yathā tamaḥ. Just like sun is reflected in the water, and the light is reflected again on the wall. This is the exact explanation of māyā. Reality, this material world, the man who manufactured all these things, nobody knows where he has gone, but these things are taken as reality. This will be also finished. It will remain as relics, as Rome, relics, but when it was..., the houses were prepared with great enthusiasm as reality. And now it is as relics. So the energy expended for manufacturing those house, that is also māyā, and now they are being visited as relics. That is also māyā. So all these things are māyāra vaibhava, expansion of māyā. So if somebody says that you don't appreciate these things? No, we appreciate, very much appreciate intelligence. But if you, for this appreciation, if you forget, then it is māyā. Forget Kṛṣṇa.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Hm. And people are starving for want of. There was a cartoon that some public came to some minister: "Sir, we are starving. Give us our food." So the reply was: "Of course, that's a problem, food problem. But I can assure you that from next week you'll have television." (laughter) These rascals are like that. "Next, from next week, you'll have television, atom bomb. Never mind. Starve." (laughter) So that is also becoming fool's paradise. Jaḍa-vidyā jato māyāra vaibhava. In this way, the more we increase sense, sense gratification by advancement of material..., the more we forget Kṛṣṇa. And more we forget Kṛṣṇa, we are more fools. (aside:) Don't come so near.
Devotee: In England and America now, more and more there is a big movement for birth control and contraceptives...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because they want to.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That independence. So he wants to forget. Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, you do at your risk."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And suffer the consequences.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is it the spirit soul which is desiring or is it just karma?
Prabhupāda: The desiring... After desiring, there is karma. First of all willing.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That is the soul.
Prabhupāda: Thinking, feeling, willing. What you think, you feel, and then you will, and Kṛṣṇa sanctions, that "Do it."
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is transcendental, this microphone, because it is being used for Kṛṣṇa's purpose. The same flower, when you use it for sense gratification, it is material. The same flower when you offer to Kṛṣṇa, it is spiritual. The flower is not different, but by the different use it becomes material and spiritual. I think I have said many times that there is actually no material existence. Therefore it is called māyā. Māyā means it has no actual existence. We create an atmosphere. That is māyā. Atmosphere of forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa, that is māyā. Anartha. Anartha, unnecessary. Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam (SB 1.7.6). If this park is given to us, we can immediately make it Vaikuṇṭha. We know how to do it. But it is not given to us. The same electric energy is creating heater and cooler. For the cooler there is no different electric energy. And for the heater there is no different—the same electric. Similarly, the material and spiritual is coming from Kṛṣṇa's energy.
Prabhupāda: "Do it." This is going on. The rascals, they want to enjoy life without Kṛṣṇa. The gopīs are dancing with Kṛṣṇa; the dancing is here also, ball dance. Why they do not get any pleasure? Without Kṛṣṇa. You dance with Kṛṣṇa, you get real pleasure. So our business is to educate people that "Everything is Kṛṣṇa. You try to understand." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You are trying to forget Kṛṣṇa. That is your argument. Just like the materialistic person argue, "Why shall I do this? Why shall I go to Kṛṣṇa?" They argue simply this. Actually, there cannot exist anything without Kṛṣṇa. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam, Kṛṣṇa says. "All this, whatever you see, that is My expansion of energy. Everything is resting on Me." Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni (BG 9.4). "Everything is on Me." Nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ. By bhakti-yoga gradually he develops that everything—vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19)—everything is Kṛṣṇa. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That mahātmā is very rare who can see everywhere Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Fire is better than smoke. Smoke is better than wood. Wood means tamo-guṇa. And smoke means rajo-guṇa, "Now it is coming." And fire means sattva-guṇa. So you have to go still above. That is called śuddha-sattva-guṇa. Here, simply blazing fire, it may also extinguish, but the platform where it is never extinguished, that is spiritual platform. That is spiritual. That is not material. Not only fire, but ever-blazing fire. That is spiritual platform. You cannot stop even, "Oh, here is now fire." It must be ever-blazing fire. Then it will act. But that is said when there is no chance of extinction. Nitya-yukta upāsate. That is stated in the Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā, nitya-yukta, ever-existing, eternal. That is wanted. Sometimes our devotees fall down because he has not come to that platform, ever-existing. Therefore the fire extinguished. That is possible, but everyone should be very, very careful that the fire may not be extinguished. Then again māyā. There are two things: Kṛṣṇa and māyā. If Kṛṣṇa fire is extinguished, then māyā, ignorance, darkness. Two things.
- kṛṣṇa-bhuliyā-jīva bhoga-vāñchā kare
- pāśate māyāra tare jāpaṭiyā dhare
As soon as you forget Kṛṣṇa, then māyā is there, "Yes, please come here." Finished. There is no two, er, three. māyā, Kṛṣṇa. If you are not in Kṛṣṇa, then you are in māyā. And if you are in Kṛṣṇa, there is no māyā. Yāhān kṛṣṇa, sūrya-tāhān, nāhi māyāra adhikāra. That is our Back to Godhead motto, "Where there is Kṛṣṇa, there is no nescience."
Prabhupāda: (in car) ...saṁsāre māyāra janeiya, moha janeiya, jīva ke karaye gadha. This māyāra vaibhava, this material advancement is advancement of māyā. Big, big building, nice road, nice motor car, nice... Surely it is material advancement, admitted. But this advancement is advancement of the illusory energy. So what is the wrong there? Suppose... The wrong is there that this material world is temporary. We have come here temporarily, say twenty-five years, fifty years or at most, hundred years. So we are already illusioned and we become more illusioned. Then we forget our real business. Mūḍha, we remain mūḍha. Supposing if there is next birth, so who is very much anxious to know what is our next birth? Nobody is. Blindly going on. māyāra vaibhava. (break) ...very nice church, but understand what for this church is, what is God, what is God consciousness. Just cultivate this knowledge. "No, big church finished." Live nice building, nice happy life, but don't forget Kṛṣṇa. Then what is the use of this life? And if you forget Kṛṣṇa, then the result will be crime, and you will be facing with problems, "Why and now what to do?" So many problems will be there. So the problems cannot be solved simply by possessing big, big buildings.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. Just like this is earth. Now you prepare hundreds or thousands of earthen pots and dolls. When it is destroyed, again it is earth. So when it is manifested, it is earth. When it is not manifested, it is earth. So from the spiritual energy of Kṛṣṇa everything becomes manifested, and therefore originally it is spiritual. Kṛṣṇa said, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir..., bhinnā me prakṛtiḥ: (BG 7.4) "It is My prakṛti, energy." So how Kṛṣṇa's energy can be material? Because we forget Kṛṣṇa, therefore it appears material. (Aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Hindi) (break) ...Mahāprabhu, as soon as He entered the Jagannātha temple He immediately fainted. Did He see the wooden Jagannātha? It is a question of seeing and prepare the eyes to see.
Prabhupāda: This is right answer, that you cannot non-cooperate with the stomach. You must serve the stomach. Otherwise your position is very precarious. That is the answer. If the finger thinks that "I shall remain independent and be happy," that is not possible. The stomach must be supplied food, and then all the parts of the body, they'll be happy. That is the point. So you cannot non-cooperate with the stomach. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the central enjoyer. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He is the center. Just like ordinarily this African state, if you do not satisfy the state or the president, then you cannot remain happy. Independently you cannot be happy. We require in every step sta... We have come to this park because state is cooperating. In the morning we shall come, and they have prepared it nicely. We are not going to the jungle. So if we actually want happiness we must cooperate with the state. This is crude example. Similarly, if our ultimate aim is to become happy, then we must cooperate with Kṛṣṇa. This is obligatory. You cannot escape it. Then you'll be unhappy. This is the... Stomach. Pranopaharac ca yathendriyanam. Therefore the natural process is you pick up... A child even. He picks up some something, but he does not put anywhere—immediately in the mouth. Why he does not bring it in the ear? Why? The child immediately takes it. He does not know what is what. But the nature is that as soon as he captures something, even he does not know... Because his position is eating, he knows this much, sense gratification. Other senses are not yet developed. So the child, he knows taste with tongue and eats. That he knows. So immediately anything he captures, he brings to the mouth, naturally. He hasn't got to be educated. So our position is like that. We being part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, our natural tendency is to serve Kṛṣṇa. Natural tendency. It is not artificial. When you forget Kṛṣṇa, that is artificial. So our normal life means to love Kṛṣṇa, to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is our normal life. Without serving Kṛṣṇa our life is abnormal, madman's life. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says... When you forget Kṛṣṇa, He comes to preach the normal life.
Prabhupāda: We have forgotten our position. Our posit..., normal position, is to love and serve Kṛṣṇa. Therefore anādi bahir mukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela ataeva kṛṣṇa veda purāṇa karila. Because we do not know... From time immemorial we cannot ascertain when this incidents have happened, to forget Kṛṣṇa, but it is practically... Life after life, life after life, we are changing body, but forgetting Kṛṣṇa. So here, in the human form of life, there is the opportunity to revive our original position, and we require the help of knowledge, perfect knowledge. And that is there in the Vedas. Atha eva kṛṣṇa veda purāṇa karila. If we don't take advantage, although we have got... We can read Bhagavad-gītā, and if we don't take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and go on whimsically, then we'll suffer. You cannot non-cooperate with Kṛṣṇa as you cannot non-cooperate with the stomach. This is the... You must. There is no question of alternative. You may, may not know. It is not. You must. This is the position. Otherwise you'll never be happy. And happiness is your aim of life. Atyantika-duḥkha-nivṛttiḥ. We are... I'm suffering from this knee's trouble because I am in this material world. I have got this material body. So atyantika-duḥkha-nivṛttiḥ means no more material world, no more material body. And for that purpose we have to cooperate with Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: It is spiritual as soon as you become a devotee, spiritual. We are living in the spiritual world. That I explained last night. So ultimately there is nothing material. Material means when you forget Kṛṣṇa. That is material.
Devotee (1): My question, Prabhupāda, was...
Prabhupāda: There is no material. When you forget Kṛṣṇa, that is material. Just like madness. Madness is not our natural position, but when your brain is deranged, then it is madness. Madness has no separate existence, but when our brain is not in order, there is madness. Similarly, there is nothing material, because everything has come from Kṛṣṇa. The original source is Kṛṣṇa. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). So the material world, the so-called material world, has come from Kṛṣṇa. So if it has come from Kṛṣṇa how it is material? The cause and effect is the same, maybe differently manifested. Just like cotton, cotton made into thread, the shape has changed, but it is cotton. And from the cotton thread, you make cloth. The cloth is cotton. But if I say, "Cotton. Bring cotton," then you'll bring cotton, not this cloth. But the cloth is also cotton.
Prabhupāda: That is life. This artificial life is no life. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has described this modern civilization of artificial life. So he says, jaḍā vidyā sab, māyāra vaibhava. He declares all these artificial way of life, advancement of material civilization, means advancement of influence of māyā. Jaḍā vidyā sab, māyāra vaibhava. Expansion of the influence of māyā. Then? What is the result? The result is anitya saṁsāre, moho janmeiya. Jaḍā vidyā sab, māyār vaibhava, tomāra bhajane badha. māyā means forgetfulness of God. This is māyā. māyā means the more you forget Kṛṣṇa, the more you are involved in māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So māyā's business is to cover you more and more as you forget Kṛṣṇa. This is māyā's business. So therefore, expansion of māyā's influence means forgetting Kṛṣṇa. Tomāra bhajane badha. They're all hindrances only to make spiritual progress and to understand God. So what is the net result? The net result is anitya saṁsāre, moha janmeiyā.
Prabhupāda: Yes, vimūḍha. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says not only mūḍha but vimūḍha; viśeṣa-mūḍha especifical. Prahlādah Mahārāja says the same thing: tato vimūkha-cetasā. Vimūkha cetasā means one who does not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme. Tato vimukha-cetasa soce, and simply thinking of desires. Who are this? Those who are nondevotees, one who does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Tato vimukha-cetasa. So why you are searching? Māy-sukhāya: simply for so-called sense gratification for a few days, bhāram udvahato vimūḍhān, making big, big plans. I am thinking of these rascals. What for they are making big, big plans? They will stay here for a few days, and forgetting Kṛṣṇa consciousness they are busy in making plans. This is Prahlāda Mahārāja. And Kṛṣṇa says they are mūḍha, vimūḍha. As soon as you find one, not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's immediately mūḍha, vimūḍha. Na mā duṣkṛtino mūḍh prapdyante narādhamāḥ.
Dr. Patel: That knowledge is, I mean, perished by māyā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Māyā will help you. If you want to forget Kṛṣṇa, Māyā will help you, how you can more and more forget.
Dr. Patel: Māyā would help us even for finding out Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: No. māyā...
Dr. Patel: ...because the body is the māyā, the mind is māyā, and the very mind will help us, sir, that doesn't it help us to go towards Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: No. That is not māyā's help. When you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, māyā will not bother with your business. That means you get relief from māyā. You are no more under the jurisdiction of māyā. You..., now you are under the jurisdiction of Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. māyā will trouble you so long you do not go in the jurisdiction of Kṛṣṇa.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Michael Gordon: What does being a devotee of Kṛṣṇa involve? Does it...?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa involved means you are.... Every one of you, you are Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel. But on account of your forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa, you are suffering. Therefore our message is that "You become Kṛṣṇa conscious. You'll be happy." This is our message. Otherwise we have no business to bring the message to the forgotten persons, that "You have forgotten Kṛṣṇa; therefore you are suffering. You awaken your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You'll be happy." This is our message.
Brian Singer: What does.... When you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, does it mean you come into the chapel, or can you lead the sort of life that we lead and still...?
Prabhupāda: No, going to the chapel, that is one of the means, but there are nine different processes, of which, hearing about Kṛṣṇa is the most important thing, śravaṇam. If you continuously hear about Kṛṣṇa. Therefore these books are there, hearing and chanting. If you cannot read, I'll read; you hear. I'll speak. Or you will speak; I'll hear. These two processes are very important. Therefore we are presenting in English language the subject matter of Kṛṣṇa so elaborately. We have published eighty-two books like this. If you read one book.... This is the preliminary study. Then, if you read it with great attention, you become Kṛṣṇa conscious immediately.
Prabhupāda: No, they cannot understand God; therefore it is impersonalism. It is due to their poor fund of knowledge. So most people are in poor fund of knowledge.
Hari-śauri: As soon as one forgets Kṛṣṇa, he's impersonal.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mahendra: Just like many of us, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we were thinking, that...
Prabhupāda: They cannot think that a person, how he can produce a sky? That is beyond their conception. This is their illusion.(?) They say God is all-powerful, but He cannot produce a sky. This is their defect of knowledge. If God is all-powerful, why He cannot produce a sky? That they cannot think. Yes, He's all-powerful, cannot produce a sky. Their intellect. Poor intellect.
Rūpānuga: Matter has no desire.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So matter seems, we say, more complex, but still is inferior.
Prabhupāda: It is made complex to serve some purpose.
Rūpānuga: It keeps the living entity forgetful of Kṛṣṇa. It makes māyā for the living entity; he forgets Kṛṣṇa with all the complexities.
Prabhupāda: Physically, everything is being done by heat and light. So fire is heat and light. The fire is not complex, heat and light but with heat and light everything is going on. You have physical subject matter of study, heat and light?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Because everything is being conducted by heat and light.
Prabhupāda: Yes. What is the wrong there? (break)
Devotee (1): ...becoming purified from this suffering then why isn't it when we're sick, why is it that we forget Kṛṣṇa, we become disgusted, and after we are sick we don't feel any more advanced than before? (break)
Prabhupāda: ...purified, you will not be sick. (break)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...the difference between the materialist and the transcendentalist.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Materialist always thinks that they will try to overcome the laws of nature, and when the laws of nature catch over...
Prabhupāda: Śudhyeta satya (?) Sometimes the spiritual master has to suffer for the sinful activities of his disciples. (break) ...this suffering is short cut. For the karmīs it would have been a huge suffering but devotee is (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: ...of this human being, people do not know how they are kept in ignorance. And because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, out of His causeless mercy He comes to deliver us from this ignorance. Unfortunately, they are so much engrossed by the illusory energy, they do not take advantage of the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. So therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is being propagated that these dull-headed mūḍha—they are being described as mūḍha, dull-headed; they do not know actual interest of life. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). These dull-headed conditioned souls, they do not know their real self-interest, being influenced by māyā. Māyā is also Kṛṣṇa's energy, so it is her duty to punish the conditioned soul because they have decided to forget Kṛṣṇa. Still, Kṛṣṇa is so merciful, He comes personally, He authorizes His devotees, servants, to enlighten these conditioned souls. Now our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an humble attempt to raise the standard of these conditioned souls to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Those who are engaged in this business, they should personally behave as devotee, and by their example they should teach others and elevate them from this gross ignorance of materialistic life. Thank you very much. (break)
Prabhupāda: No, thing is that I say all these things because I always think of this. I always think.
Hari-śauri: If you don't forget Kṛṣṇa, then...
Prabhupāda: Yes, you always think how to talk with these demonic people. Then Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence.
Hari-śauri: This is the most difficult welfare work.
Harikeśa: They don't want it.
Prabhupāda: Not difficult, it is easiest. But this rascal will not take the easiest.
Hari-śauri: That's the difficulty.
Akṣayānanda: Such stage of Bhakti is very rare, Prabhupāda. To be on such a high platform is very rare. To be fearless.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhakti itself is rare. Bhakti is not cheap. Don't think it is cheap commodity. There is a verse, I now forget. Kṛṣṇa can give you liberation, but He hesitates to give bhakti.
Harikeśa: Muktiṁ dadāti karhicit sma na bhakti-yogam.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Mukti, He is prepared, "All right, take mukti." But when there is bhakti, He has to consider twice. Bhakti means he becomes in the grip of bhakta. Vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau (Bs. 5.33).
Caraṇāravindam: Are we doing bhakti, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Materially there are so many divisions, but spiritual they are all servant of Kṛṣṇa. Nobody is yavana, nobody is brāhmaṇa. Everyone is servant of Kṛṣṇa. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). We are going there not to make the yavanas a brāhmaṇa. That is not our mission. Our business is... We know that he is servant of Kṛṣṇa. Forgetting Kṛṣṇa, he's thinking himself as Turkish, as Muhammadan, as Jewish, as Christian. This is his disease. So let me cure his disease. Why he should be called yavana? That is artificial. He's Kṛṣṇa dāsa. Jivera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Just like when a physician treats a patient, does he think that here is a Christian, here is a Muhammadan, here is a Hindu? He takes as patient. Never mind what he is. And he gives treatment. He never thinks that here is a Christian patient, here is a Muhammadan patient. He is patient. Give me this, bring him medicine. That is physician's business. Why should we consider, "Here is a Christian patient.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Hari-śauri: Skyscrapers.
Prabhupāda: We have no objection to this, provided there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Unfortunately these things cover more time for their maintenance, and they forget Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That should be stopped. The main business is development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Rāmeśvara: And you also mentioned not so much these ugra-karmic jobs.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Rāmeśvara: Industry. Now hundreds of thousands of people have their jobs in this way. So...
Prabhupāda: Let them go to the farm. We are therefore organizing farm. As soon as they are jobless, "Come on. We shall feed you. We shall give you food." There is no scarcity of food.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). (sound of thunder and rain) This time rainfall is very beneficial for crops. This is the way of living. You perform yajña, there will be rain. And as soon as the ground is moist, you can produce anything, whatever you want. Sarva-kāma-dughā mahī. From the field, you can get all your necessities of life. The first necessity is the food grain. So food grain you can eat, and the rejected grass portion, you give to the cows. So both the animal and the man get sufficient food. And the cows will give you nice milk, and from milk you can get butter, ghee, yogurt, so many nice sweetmeat. And there is ghee, and here is food grain, then you make kacuri, puri, samosā. Then sufficient foodstuff, nice, palatable, nutritious. First necessity is āhāra. You get sufficient āhāra. Then make little cottage for shelter. Just like there is rainfall. Now you require little... (thunder sounds) Āhāra, nidrā, bhaya, and sex. So marry. Then the whole problem is solved. And then, rest time you save and advance in Kṛṣṇa conscious... This is civilization. Why you create unnecessary necessities of life and become complicated and forget Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He should not have come in touch, in the material qualities. And in Prema-vivarta it is said,
- kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare
- nikaṭa-stha māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare
So as soon as he forgets Kṛṣṇa and wants to enjoy life independently, that is guṇa-saṅga and falls down. It is falldown, this guṇa-saṅga. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi bhuṅkte... (BG 13.22). What is that verse?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: You know the verse?
Śatadhanya: Which one?
Prabhupāda: You can find out.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's from the Gītā?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Guṇa, guṇa.
| Page Title: | Forget Krsna (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 21 of Jun, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=46, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 46 |