Prabhupāda: Oblations. Yes. This, and to beget child by the husband's younger brother. Formerly, the society allowed that if a woman is young, she has no child, but husband died, so if the husband has younger brother, through the younger brother she could have a child. This system was current. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that these five things are forbidden in this age. So Chand Kazi also replied that "Cow killing is also not generally recommended in the Koran. Actually, beef-eating or flesh-eating is not in the higher stage. But those who are inclined to take flesh, for them it is recommended that instead of killing many small animals, one big animal should be killed. So actually in Mecca, Medina, they kill camel. That is also in the mosque." So the substance of his speech was that flesh-eating ultimately is not recommended. "But those who have no other means, they eat flesh and they recommend that one big animal should be killed. So India, the cow is big animal, therefore we kill. But that is not recommended for advanced spiritual students." In this way... So they were friends, and he understood, Chand Kazi understood that it is very nice movement, that "You are preaching love of Godhead. So I did not understand. So my dear boy, henceforward there will be no hindrances in Your movement and I promise that not only myself but all my descendants will never object Your movement, this saṅkīrtana movement."
Forbidden (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So our program is to start several..., as many branches as possible to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And it is very easy. We simply invite persons to come and chant with us. It doesn't matter what he is, what is his language, what is his religion. We don't take into account all these things. And this Hare Kṛṣṇa is so easy to utter, that any man can utter. That we have experienced. Any part of the world, we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and they can very easily imitate and chant. Even child, they also. So by chanting, he gradually becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious. His heart becomes cleansed and he can understand what is science of Kṛṣṇa, what is science of God. Then he automatically offers himself for initiation. Then we initiate him and guide him in different ways. But our students are strictly forbidden to have illicit sex life or meat-eating or intoxication or gambling. These four things are strictly forbidden for our students. And they take it seriously. We get our... In your country boys and girls, they live as friend. I don't allow that. If there is such friendship, I immediately ask them, if they become my student, I immediately ask them to be married. And this experiment has proved very successful. I got these young boys and girls married, and they are very happily living, and husband and wife, they are preaching. All my students in London—there are six boys and girls—they were married by me, and they are doing very nicely. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very nice in everywhere, especially in this country. That is my opinion. And people will be benefited, especially the younger section who were feeling frustration in every respect, and they are now happy.
Prabhupāda: So fat we are getting from milk, butter. So if I can get fat from milk and butter, why shall I kill the cow and animal? This is humanity. My necessity is to get some milk and fat. The cow is supplying you milk and fat sufficiently. Why should you kill it? I am going to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, God conscious, and I am killing another God's creature? So it is very important work to select that: if anyone is serious to become God conscious or Kṛṣṇa conscious. Therefore in our program meat-eating is forbidden. So that is very important in that sense. The next question is, "So, what is the significance..." I think I've already explained this. "Is there a probationary period for Kṛṣṇa consciousness or does one attain this enlightening according to his own rate of development?" Yes, everything requires little enthusiasm. Just like a boy is going to school with no enthusiasm, and a boy is going to school with nice enthusiasm. One boy is passing in the first class, first division and another boy is failing or he's passing in the third division. So the probation period, of course, I've already explained: to associate with us, the second stage.
Prabhupāda: Well, actually sex life is allowed only to the householders. According to Vedic culture, sex life is restricted. There are four divisions of society. The brahmacārī is strictly forbidden for sex life. The vānaprastha, they are also forbidden for sex life, and the sannyāsī, they are also forbidden for sex life. So out of four divisions, three divisions are strictly forbidden for sex life. Only the householders they can have restricted sex life with married wife simply for begetting children. That is the Vedic culture.
Interviewer: Actually, most hippies couldn't join your religion because they take drugs...
Prabhupāda: Yes, we are completely different from the hippies, because hippies they are addicted to sex and intoxication, and these things are completely forbidden in our temple.
Interviewer: You do perform wedding ceremonies?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Interviewer: What is your wedding ceremony like?
Prabhupāda: The same chanting, Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: She should not have gone like that. If she did not like, she should have frankly told me. This is not good.
Madhudviṣa: She was in correspondence with her brother, and her brother was had some problems with drugs, taking intoxicants, drugs, and she wanted him to come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and she was talking about sending him money to have him come to Seattle. So that made us think that she might have gone to San Francisco to try to bring her brother to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But she...
Prabhupāda: If that is her idea, that's good, but why did not tell us? That "I am going to my brother's." Nobody would have forbidden her. She has taken some money?
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Interviewer: Well, now, I'd like to go over in some greater detail what the disciples may and may not do. I think that's where... I just wanted to get some of the factual background before we went into that. Now, your, the sexual abstinence does not include marriage, I gather.
Prabhupāda: No. Marriage allowed.
Interviewer: Marriage is allowed.
Prabhupāda: I say, "illicit sex." Without marriage, sex relation is forbidden.
Interviewer: I see. Would you say that there were times when, well, that there were marriages which were also illicit?
Prabhupāda: No. Of course, in civilized human society, either in India or in any other country, marriage is considered as sanctified, either in Hindu community or Christian community or Mohammedan community. But apart from that, for spiritual advancement, according to Vedic culture, sex indulgence is always restricted.
Prabhupāda: Cow sacrifice is giving new life to the old cow. That is cow sacrifi... It is not killing. And because at the present moment the brāhmaṇas are not so qualified that they can give new life, therefore that sacrifice is now forbidden. He cited some verses from Vedic literature that cow sacrifice and horse sacrifice and to beget children by the younger brother of husband and sannyāsa, and offering oblations with meat, these things are forbidden. So that is past. This is... Now it has no significance. In this way, both of them were scholars. Then they compromised. Agreement was the Kazi gave order everyone of his descendants, that "Nobody will check this saṅkīrtana movement." So that order is being carried by their descendants still there in Nabadwip. The Kazi has got his tomb. He was a very big man.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (4): I would like to live with you and tour with you.
Prabhupāda: So why not come and live and tour with me? Who forbids you? But it is not possible to pay anything for your family expenditure. That is difficulty. We cannot pay anything but you can live with your family. That responsibility you can take. But I cannot pay you. That's not possible. Because we are maintaining by collecting alms. In that case it is not possible to pay something. There is... (break) It is selling all over Europe.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because the one son of God is not allowing the other son to come in. And that he hasn't got the right to forbid. Just like your father has got ten sons. So all the tens sons have got the right to use the property of the father. That is law. Similarly, all the living entities, not only human beings. Birds, animals, birds, beasts—everyone. This is called spiritual, or transcendental, communism. According to Vedic civilization, a householder has to see that even a lizard in the room is not fasting, to see whether it has got his food. Even there is a snake in the house, the householder is to see whether the snake has got his food. A householder would stand on the street, and before taking his food, he will say loudly, "If anyone is hungry, please come. Still I have got my food." And if there is no response, then he takes prasādam.
Prabhupāda: Rejects or reaction. Yes. Protest, rejection. So before this protest and rejection and reaction, if the leaders of the society become cool-headed, that "Actually God is proprietor of everything. Everyone is son of God; so everything, property of God, must be enjoyed by everyone," this if the leaders only think, then everything will be all right. There is no question of increase of population. There is enough food. In America there is so excessive food that they throw away. They throw away. And they forbid, "Don't produce more." Why? Produce more. Distribute more. That is civilization.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no bodily barrier. No. "Because I have got a particular type of body, therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness is forbidden for me." No, that is not. In any body, any circumstances, you can cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But not material. But people, they do not know. They think that "Kṛṣṇa consciousness there is no need, but let me improve my bodily comfort." This is called illusion. He cannot improve, even by an inch, the burden, but still... But you can improve, or you can purify, your consciousness. That is open to you, oh, irrespective of bodily (indistinct). And that is actually happening. You have got a different body from the before. (indistinct) But everyone, your taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Kṛṣṇa says, "It doesn't matter what kind of body you have got-low born, or high born, or this born or that born. I have no such restriction. If you want Me, te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7), you are all My parts and parcels. Every one of you are equally important to Me." And similarly, a devotee of Kṛṣṇa also sees. He does not see the outward cover. He sees that "Every living entity is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So he is now forgetful of his real position. So let us help him that he may come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and become successful." This is our position.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So anyway, these such things were existing formerly also, but they were not very common affair. Sometimes after many, many years, a bad king would come. Throughout the history, at least in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, we find this one king only, Vena, who declared the sacrifice, charity illegal. na yaṣṭavyaṁ na dātavyaṁ na hotavyaṁ dvijāḥ kvacit (SB 4.14.6), by the brāhmaṇas. Just like the other day it was published in the paper that this India spiritual, this is a myth. They are also declaring. Iti nyavārayad dharmaṁ. So execution of religious principle was forbidden, nyavārayat. Bherī-ghoṣeṇa, bherī means bugle, by bugle, sarvaśaḥ, everywhere.
Bob: And what kind of charity is it when you give to, food to somebody who is hungry?
Prabhupāda: Well, that is also depends on goodness and passion and ignorance. That example I was giving, that a doctor has forbidden that "This patient should not take any solid food." But if you make charity, "Oh, he..." And he's asking "Give me some solid..." Sometime patient asks. And if you give him solid food, then you are not doing good to him. That is ignorance.
Prabhupāda: You see, Kṛṣṇa says that ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). So Kṛṣṇa's so powerful that He can immediately take up all the sins of others and immediately make it gone. But when a living entity plays the part on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, he also takes the responsibility of these sinful activities of his devotee. So to become a guru is not an easy task. You see? He has to take all the poisons and absorb. So sometimes, because he's not Kṛṣṇa, so sometimes there is some trouble. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu forbidden that "Don't make many śiṣyas, many disciples." But for preaching work we have to accept many disciples, for expanding preaching. Never mind we suffer. But that's a fact. The spiritual master has to take the responsibility of all the sinful activities of his disciples. So to make many disciple is a risky job unless he's able to assimilate all the sins. (pause) (break)... patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo. He takes responsibility for all the fallen souls.
Prabhupāda: After initiation his all sinful reaction is finished. Now if he again commits sinful activities, the spiritual master has to suffer. They should be sympathetic for this, that "For my sinful activities my spiritual master will suffer." (break) ...attacked with some disease it is due to the sinful activities of the disciples. Exactly like Lord Jesus Christ was crucified on account of the sinful activities of others. (break) ...forbidden, "Don't make many disciples." But we do because we are preaching. Never mind, let us suffer; still, we shall accept. (break)... question was that when I suffer it is due to my past misdeeds? Was it not?
Bob: Yes, yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: That is my misdeed, that I accept a disciple who is nonsense. That is my misdeed.
Prabhupāda: Temple must have. Even ordinary gṛhastha. That is Vedic civilization, not that we cook for ourself, for my husband, for my wife and children, eat it sumptuously and go to bed. No. Even gṛhastha, he should be always prepared to receive guest. Yes. And even a guest comes, your enemy, you should receive him in such a nice way that he will forget that you are all enemies. Gṛhe śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akutobhayam. This is Vedic civilization, not that "Beware of dog. Please don't enter here. You are forbidden to come here. And if you come, I shall shoot you." Sometimes they do that. This is not human civilization. It is cats' and dogs' civilization. So actually we are teaching what is human civilization. But we must be also like human being, not cats and dogs. Otherwise how can you teach? If I am like cats and dogs, I cannot criticize others as cats and dogs. I must be first of all human being. Then I shall teach others how to become human being. I must become first of all devotee. Then I shall request others to become devotee. Āpani ācari jīve śikhāilā bhakti. First behave yourself perfectly; then teach others to become perfect. That is preacher.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) But still he's attached to us.
Śyāmasundara: He embraces you when you meet.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He likes me. (laughter) Simply his only objection is that I am very conservative. He said, "Swamiji, you are very conservative." Because I forbid so many things. He cannot. Otherwise he would have joined me, but he cannot.
Śyāmasundara: No.
Prabhupāda: He knows that "Unless I give up all these bad habits, Swami will not accept me."
Devotee (1): He is a very enthusiastic chanter.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: They do not agree that animal killing is sinful. They do not agree.
Schumacher: It's a very long question, isn't it. I mean...
Prabhupāda: No, it is a simple question. Killing, do you think killing is very good business? Then why it is forbidden, "Thou shall not kill."
Schumacher: No, but sometimes protection is necessary.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Generally, you should not kill. But when there is absolute necessity, that is another thing. But generally, this killing process you cannot support, and at the same time, you want to make the society purified. You commit sinful activities; at the same time, you want to purify. How it is possible?
Prabhupāda: From practical life, just like world's principal religion, Christianism, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Mohammedanism also, the principle of not killing is there, every religion. Buddhism, they're completely for not killing. No circumstances, at any circumstances killing is not allowed. Similarly, in Vedic religion, killing is not allowed, but at circumstances, it is allowed. Similarly Christianity, they also say, "Thou shall not kill." Mohammedans also, they allow killing, but circumstantially. So the principle of killing is forbidden every religion, every religion. So the principle of religion is one. Take for example, in every religion there is acceptance of God and religion means to abide by the order of God. So how there can be two religions? There cannot be two religions. "I believe like that, we believe like that." These are man-made. But actual religion is that God is one and religion means the orders, the law given by God. That's all. Simple definition. Just like state is one, government is one, and to become good citizen means to abide by the laws of the government. That's all. Those, one who is abiding by the laws of God, he is perfect religionist. It doesn't matter whether he's a Hindu, he's a Muslim or a Christian. Whether he has got proper sense what is meant by God and what is the order of God. Then he is religionist, perfect religionist.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā? Oh. What is the philosophy Arya-samaj?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't know. But she's pleased, she likes Kṛṣṇa, she likes our movement very much, but she still believes in Arya-samaj very strongly.
Prabhupāda: Because she is president, how she can speak against them? (laughs) Arya-samajis are strictly forbidden to go to the temple.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, but she comes to see you.
Prabhupāda: Then she breaks the law.
Prabhupāda: Therefore we forbid to take to the karmī's life. Because at the time of death, if he remains a karmī, then he'll have to take birth as a karmī. That is the risk. So this regulated life, holding class, chanting, that will not make us fall down. That is essential. It is essential, regulate, to follow the regulative principles, chanting sixteen rounds, holding class. You can do anything, but this will keep us alive to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness platform. If you neglect that, then that is very risky. Even if you get next life birth in a rich man's family, that is not guarantee. Because generally, rich man's sons, they go astray. They get money for nothing and they want to squander it. And material world, if you have got money, so many bad associates will come and help you to squander your money and spoil your life. Because you have got money, then so many friends will come. As soon as you have no money, nobody will come. Even your wife, children will not come. Therefore hariṣye tad dhanaṁ śanaiḥ. Kṛṣṇa, first of all, takes away the money, makes him poor so that everyone will neglect him, and because he's Kṛṣṇa conscious, he'll take Kṛṣṇa, "Sir, I have no other alternative. Please give me protection." That is also another Kṛṣṇa's policy, special favor, that "This man wanted Me. Now he's going astray. All right. That's all right. Take everything of his..."
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Dr. Patel: He electrifies anybody who touches him. So we touch your feet. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Therefore, therefore he has no material body.
Dr. Patel: No.
Prabhupāda: It is aparādha. Guruṣu nara-matiḥ. This is forbidden. Guruṣu nara-matiḥ. Arcye śilā-dhīr... Just like everyone knows... The atheist class will say, "Oh, here is a stone statue, and these rascals are worshiping as Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: Everyone knows that "Here is a stone statue." Then so many hundred and thousands of people are coming to worship that stone statue? Somebody can argue. The atheist will argue. And when... So... We have got millions of temples. Especially in South India and Jagannātha Purī and many where. So are they going, spending so much money to worship a statue? That is forbidden. Guruṣu nara-matiḥ. Guru should not be considered in that way. If he's actually guru.
Prabhupāda: Rules and regulations can be violated when there is urgent necessity of service, not whimsically or for one's sense gratification. And that is, of course, in our present..., with the permission of the spiritual master, not one should think, "Oh, I have become so much great devotee, I can violate all the rules and regulations." No, you cannot. If there is need of violating rules and regulations, you must take permission. Now we have no temple. Under the circumstances, we are doing that. So you construct the temple as soon as possible so that people may not criticize you. (break) ...for all gṛhastha devotees, you should begin preaching amongst the gṛhasthas. It is not forbidden for the gṛhasthas to preach. Because preaching is required everywhere. Arjuna was gṛhastha. So yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya (CC Madhya 8.128). One must know the science of Kṛṣṇa. Then you can become preacher.
Prabhupāda: It is just to give His personal example that a sannyāsī should not be very much intimately mixing with rich men. That is by His personal example. He was a sannyāsī. He refused to see a king because a king is supposed to be always busy in material affairs. So if... For the general people aspiring to go back to home, back to Godhead, for them, to mix with the materialistic persons is forbidden. Viṣayiṇāṁ sandarśanam atha yoṣitāṁ ca (CC Madhya 11.8). Those who are viṣayī, simply engaged in sense gratification, and yoṣitām... Yoṣitām means women or enjoyable things.
Prabhupāda: We cannot... As soon as you say api, even if it is enjoined in the Vedas, don't do it. That means decrying the Vedas. What do you think?
Indian man (2): You want us to eat meat by saying that the Vaiṣṇavas..., we won't do it.
Prabhupāda: The Vaiṣṇava is forbidden.
Indian man (2): But then, this is a Vaiṣṇava way, forbidden to eat the meat.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But therefore you cannot decry the Vedas.
Indian man (4): But this is not Veda, you see? If you kill an animal and sacrifice in the way of...
Prabhupāda: That is Vedic injunction. Sacrifice is done...
Dr. Patel: I think this has become very wild after the Second World War.
Prabhupāda: No, no. It is always there. It is always there. That is material world. Material world means that, sex life. That's all. And if you increase it, then you increase your material life more and more. Therefore the process is tapasā brahmacaryena (SB 6.1.13). The brahmācārya is so much stressed. Tapasā brahmacaryena. Samena damena vā, tyāgena śaucena yamena niyamena vā. This is the process of human life. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kāṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This human body is not meant for working hard like pigs for sense gratification. So they have been taught to become pigs. No discrimination of sex. The pig has no discrimination. So they have been taught. Not... When it is in śāstra, that means it is from the very beginning. A class of men are like pigs and hogs there are, always. So therefore Rsabhādeva is forbidding his sons that "This human form of life is not to waste like the pigs and hogs." Then what? Tapasā. Tapo divyaṁ putrakāḥ...
Prabhupāda: When the demigods... They have to offer prayers to the Lord, instead of... How they can be worshiped on the equal level of God? How can they be worshiped on the...? That is forbidden. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ deva. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (some people come) Yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devaṁ brahma-rudrādi-daivataiḥ, samatvena vikṣeta sa pāṣāṇḍī bhaved dhruvam (CC Madhya 18.116). Nārāyaṇam devam, the Supreme Personality of God Nārāyaṇa, if one makes Him on the equal position with such big, big demigods like Brahmā, Rudra, so immediately he becomes a pāṣāṇḍī. And now they are comparing with the daridra. Just see.
Prabhupāda: Convention means they are partially good for the time being, that's all. They are not eternally... Just like in the Bible it is said, "Thou shalt not kill." (chuckles) But this is not, does not come within the category of eternal religion. People were so corrupted that they were forbidden, "No, don't do this." "Thou shalt not covet," a little moral instruction. That also, they could not follow. There is no religion. And little God consciousness, "There is God, kingdom of God," little idea for the persons who could understand. Otherwise, do you think that if somebody says, "Thou shalt not kill," is that any religious principle? It is ordinary thing. Where is the question of God?
Prabhupāda: That is for... Manu-saṁhitā forbids completely. Manu-saṁhitā is not religion. It is moral principles for conducting society. Religion is how to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is religion. That is natural. (break) "...shalt not kill," this is expectation. "Someday, in future, one may become religious." That's all. Because by killing, killing, they are going downer, down. So if they stop killing, some day they will be able to understand what is religion. Sukṛti. Because, without being freed from all sinful activities, nobody can understand what is God. Therefore about God, in India they can understand very easily. In other countries they cannot. Very few because always engaged in sinful activities, all forbidden sinful activities. Just like you said that gambling has been introduced in religion. Killing has been introduced in religion. What is that religion? The more they take to the sinful activities, the more they become implicated—again birth and birth and birth and birth. Unless one is completely free, he cannot understand what is God. Yeṣam anta-gataṁ pāpam. You know this verse? The Bhagavad-gītā, yes.
Pañcadraviḍa: When one becomes free of sinful activities, then he can begin devotional life.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: The brāhmaṇas are considered to be first-class men, the kṣatriyas are considered to be second-class men, and the vaiśyas, they are third-class men, and rest, all fourth-class and fifth-class. So at the present moment there is third-class, some, and all fourth-class and fifth-class. There is no first-class and second-class men. So unless they are, at least some of them are first-class men, ideal, the human society is doomed. It cannot be peaceful. Full of śūdras, fourth-class men. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for creating some first-class men. This is our ideal. Therefore we forbid them not to take meat, not to have illicit sex, not to..., because these things are accepted by the fourth-class, fifth-class men: unrestricted sex life, meat-eating, intoxication, gambling. They are not to be indulged by the first-class, second-class men, even third-class. It begins from the fourth-class men. Fourth-class, fifth-class. So if one remains to the category of the fourth-class, fifth-class man, how he can be trained up as first-class man? Therefore these things are prohibited because our aim is to create some first-class men.
Prabhupāda: So we forbid our students to refrain from four sinful activities: No illicit sex life, no meat-eating, and no intoxication, up to drinking tea, coffee or smoking. They are also intoxicants. And no gambling. These four principles, they avoid completely. And as it is recommended in this book, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "Always think of Me," man-manā. "Just become My devotee. Just offer your obeisances unto Me, and just worship Me." Four principles. If you follow these four principles without any offense, then you go back to home, back to Godhead. So for remembering God, you chant always God's name on these beads.
Prabhupāda: Ah, mad-bhāvam āgatāḥ. Mad-bhāvam, "My nature." "My nature" means spiritual nature. Kṛṣṇa is spirit. Or the another nature. This is material nature. This is another nature. That is kingdom of God, spiritual nature, Vaikuṇṭha planet. Āgatāḥ: "They came." Every information is there, every opportunity is there. Simply they are not educated. Therefore the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for educating these rascals. That's all. They are mad after sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ, mad. From the morning, as soon as they rise, "Give me a cup of tea, immediately I have to go to there and there and there." What you will do then? "Yes, I will die. I will die in a motor accident. They are waiting for me." All right, go. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). All kinds of forbidden works they are doing. What? What is the purpose? Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaye. Purpose is only sense gratification. The rascal does not know that "I am doing all these sinful activities for sense gratification, and I will have to accept a very low-grade body." That he does not know. He has already got one low-grade body. He is suffering only. And he will still get another low-grade body, more suffering. That he does not know. But still, he will do everything for sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti na sādhu manye: (SB 5.5.4)
Prabhupāda: That is... When we pray, offer pray, it is stated that that is his, one of the qualifications. Sada... Nindasi. Nindasi yajña-vidher. The animal sacrifice is recommended... Some of the sacrifices or all of them... So that animal sacrifice was not meant for eating. Just to give them new, rejuvenated life by the Vedic mantras, to test that whether Vedic mantras are being chanted properly. And because at the Kali-yuga there is no such expert brāhmaṇa, all sacrifices are forbidden. So later on, as they deteriorated, they began to offer sacrifices, and if anyone wants to stop it, they will say, "Oh, it is recommended in the Vedas." Just like these rascals, Christian: "Oh, Christ ate fish. Therefore we must maintain slaughterhouse." Just see how rascal they are. Supposing Christ ate somewhere fish. Therefore they would maintain regularly slaughterhouse of cows. This is their brain.
Prabhupāda: Yes, in the beginning there is no love. Let him work on the direction of God's representative. (break) Therefore it has been warned, arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. The Deity of Viṣṇu, if one thinks, "This is made of stone; this is made of wood; this is made of metal," and spiritual master as ordinary human being, these are hellish considerations. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matiḥ. Guruṣu means the spiritual master. Nara-matiḥ, a ordinary human being. And vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. And Vaiṣṇava, a devotee—"Oh, he is brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava. He is European Vaiṣṇava. He is this Vaiṣṇava, that..." No. These are forbidden. Vaiṣṇava is Vaiṣṇava. Spiritual master... They are all transcendental. In... of course, in this country you are introducing new, but in India... Just like we had been at Tirupati, Tirumala. Many thousands of people were coming, and their daily collection is not less than 100,000 rupees. And do you think these people are coming to offer these 100,000 rupees daily to a stone? And the ācāryas established this temple for bluffing these people? Does it mean, their collecting? They do not know the science, rascals. And therefore simply... Sinful life cannot help. Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that "One who is killer of animal, he cannot understand the spiritual science." Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). This is the statement.
Prabhupāda: Unless there is spiritual strength, you cannot enthuse others. So we should have to acquire spiritual strength by following the regulative principle. Sanātana Gosvāmī has therefore forbidden. Avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇam pūta-hari-kathāmṛtam śravanām kartavyam: "Those who are not following Vaiṣṇava principles, one should not hear from him." Why? It is Kṛṣṇa-kathā, Kṛṣṇa's. Now sarpocchiṣṭa-payo yathā: "Milk is very good, but as soon as it is touched by a serpent, it is no more good. It is harmful." So one must be Vaiṣṇava. Unless one is Vaiṣṇava, there is injunction, "Don't hear from him. It will be poisonous." So one who is not following Vaiṣṇava principle, he cannot speak about Vaiṣṇava principle. It is harmful. That is forbidden by ācāryas, Sanātana Gosvāmī. If somebody says, "What is the harm? He is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa..." He cannot chant. That is a show-bottle chant. That is not effective. But even taking that "Anyone who is chanting, let me hear," no, Sanātana Gosvāmī says, "No, don't hear." It will be harmful more than... In other words, if you are not following the Vaiṣṇava principle, you don't chant. It will not be effective. Did you not see the difference last night? There were many others. They could not join in the dancing. So far gathering men, if you do not gather intelligent men, then what is the use of gathering men? Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārā sahasraśaḥ: "If there is one moon, that is sufficient. What is the use of millions of stars?" If one is perfect Vaiṣṇava, that is sufficient.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: In this age of Kali, five things should be avoided: one is performing sacrifice by offering cows; performing sacrifice by offering horse; and oblation offering to the forefathers with meat; and then to get child by the husband's younger brother. Maybe it was practiced formerly. According to Vedic rituals, the husband's wife... That is permanent relation; there is no divorce, nothing of the sort. But in case of the husband being sick or dead, the women was allowed, if she has no children, to get children by the husband's younger brother. Devareṇa. That is also now not allowed. So these five things are not allowed in this age, Kali-yuga: sacrifice offering cows, sacrifice offering horse, sannyāsa—renouncing family life—sannyāsa order, offering oblations with meat to the forefathers, and begetting children through the husband's younger... These five items are forbidden.
Prabhupāda: Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill." They killed Christ. This is the position.
Amogha: When Buddha came, did most people follow Him?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Amogha: And they stopped their (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Yes. In their religion animal-killing is strictly forbidden.
Prabhupāda: Or Christian religion also there is celibacy, life, you also trained up, the nuns, the priests, they are not meant for marrying.
Jesuit: That's true. We don't say that sex is bad.
Prabhupāda: Why they are forbidden to marry?
Jesuit: Well, it's a question of something I freely accept, freely accept not to marry.
Prabhupāda: No. No, this is spiritual life. Sex life is not spiritual life.
Jesuit: That I find so hard to accept because everything that God makes is good. When God makes a man...
Prabhupāda: Good, what is good for you is not good for me, one man's food is another man's poison.
Journalist: What about sex and drugs, sex and alcohol.
Prabhupāda: Sex, yes, alcohol, we condemn any kind of intoxication, all our students are forbidden illicit sex. We don't say, "No sex," but "illicit sex," we forbid. Similarly we forbid meat-eating. We don't say that "Don't eat," we simply say that "don't eat meat." You can eat other things, just like we are eating so many nice things.
Journalist: Why not meat?
Prabhupāda: Because it is sinful, you are killing all animals. Your Christian religion says, "Thou shalt not kill." Why you are killing?
Prabhupāda: I say you don't believe, you don't take it. Why you are insisting on that point? If you don't believe, you don't take it. If you don't believe the whole book or the whole society, then who forbids you?
Devotee (2): We were hoping that there are some things which can be improved, because they have not been set up by you.
Prabhupāda: No. You cannot improve. Whatever we are, we are.
Devotee (2): Why can we not improve it?
Prabhupāda: No. There is no possibility.
Devotee (2): Then what is the use of action?
Prabhupāda: Action, whatever action we can do by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, that's all.
Prabhupāda: The freedom is declared by persons who are completely under the clutches of māyā. He declares freedom. And he is so much haunted by the ghost māyā that he thinks his bondage as freedom. Just like a drug-addicted person or drunkard. He is thinking, "I am free." He lies down on the street sometimes in madness: "Who can forbid me?" You have seen madmen lying on the street... I have seen it, all traffic stopped. So this kind of freedom has no meaning. It is involving oneself with the strict laws of māyā. There is no freedom. And just like a child. If he becomes free from the parents, it is not good; it is dangerous. His life is at risk. If a child without the help of the parents go on the street, is... That freedom is nice? That kind of freedom. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that "Whatever little freedom you have got, just surrender that freedom to Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ (BG 18.66).
Brahmānanda: Yeah. Even one's own self-interest he is not taking care of.
Prabhupāda: This is the position. Even it is forbidden... In the Christian religion it is forbidden: "Thou shall not kill." And they are killing. That means envious of the animal, and he is envious of himself also. They are now being killed in the womb of the mother. Why the child is now being killed within the womb of the mother? Hm?
Akṣayānanda: Because they are envious. They are envious.
Prabhupāda: Some way or other, he avoids. Eh? (break) ...therefore forbidden to make one steady in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if one does not follow this thing, then his mind, he cannot control. It is not possible. Unless one can control the mind and the senses, he cannot be steady. That is māyā's trick, to become guided by the mind. That is māyā's trick.
Prabhupāda: That I am explaining. The day and night is that pig is working. That I am explaining. Then what is the difference between the pig and me if I am also working hard like that pig? Huh?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's no difference.
Prabhupāda: Then why you say you are advanced civilization? That is forbidden. Kaṣṭan kāmān na arhati. It is not desirable; it is not good. You are given this body different from this pig because you will live peacefully and happily. Why should you accept kaṣṭan kāman, so hardship? Actually they do not want to work hard. Otherwise why the proprietor, the capitalist, they leave the factory and go to a solitary place? Why does he go?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't find any happiness even in the hard work.
Dhṛṣṭaketu: So the Māyāvādīs' philosophy is actually the supreme illusion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has forbidden. Māyāvādī-bhāṣya sunile haya sarva nasa (CC Madhya 6.169). One is finished if he follows the Māyāvāda philosophy. He is doomed. He will never be able to accept the real philosophy. He will be absorbed in that false philosophy. This is Māyāvādī's position. Māyāvādī haya kṛṣṇe aparādhī. They are aparādhī, offender. Therefore they shall remain perpetually in ignorance and think himself, "I am God." This is Māyāvādī's position. Vivekānanda preached openly that "Why you are thinking that you are sinful? You are God." He preached like that.
Harikeśa: But it was by chance I infected.
Prabhupāda: No, not chance. Why did you go where there is cholera case? That is your foolishness. Why did you go there? When there is infectious disease a man is forbidden, not to go there. So you went there without any knowledge and you infected. Now you are suffering. That's all. There is no question of chance. That is foolishness. Chance means ignorance. The ignorant people, they do not know. They infect sinful activities, and they say, "by chance." There is no question of chance. Kāranaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya, Kṛṣṇa says. There is no chance.
Brahmānanda: If they set a bad example, then they will follow bad example, then the criticism of the Indians will be justified.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's it. So those who cannot follow, they should not come here. And ask from the origin that "Those who cannot strictly follow the rules and regulations, they should not come at all. It will set a bad example. They should be forbidden to come here." That I was speaking, that instead of filling with bad cows, better keep the cowshed vacant. That I was speaking. Those who cannot strictly follow our principles, they should not come here. It is bad example. By mistake, if somebody does, he should be regretful and he should rectify. That is another thing. But not willingly he should neglect. Then such person is not required at all.
Lokanātha: Some devotees have fixed different number than sixteen. Some are chanting twenty minimum or twenty-five.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It should be increased.
Lokanātha: Is it recommended for our...
Prabhupāda: But don't decrease. Don't decrease; increase. Therefore one number is fixed. "At least this much I shall do." That is sixteen rounds.
Lokanātha: But you are recommending sixteen as a minimum, and some devotees are choosing twenty as a minimum.
Prabhupāda: So who forbids? Who says that "Don't do it"?
Lokanātha: They can chant?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is wanted. But because you cannot do it, therefore we have fixed up this minimum. Saṅkhyāta asaṅkhyāta Saṅkhyāta means with vow, numerical strength. And asaṅkhyāta means there is no limit.
Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. It looks like material; it is not material. Completely spiritual. Your body is moving on spiritual strength, but you have no eyes to see spiritual strength. You see the body. And when the spirit goes away, you cry, "My father has gone away." "Why my father has"...? "Your father is there. The body is there." So you have no spiritual vision: therefore you are thinking that gopīs' līlā with Kṛṣṇa is also material. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍha (BG 9.11). This is mūḍha's business. They are thinking spiritual activities of Kṛṣṇa as material. That is avajānanti. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. Paraṁ bhāvam, the spiritual activities, they do not know. Therefore it is forbidden for materialistic person to hear about gopīs' pastimes with Kṛṣṇa. It is forbidden, that's all, because the rascal will take it as material. (break) ... Rūpa Gosvāmī and Sanātana Gosvāmī and other Gosvāmīs, they left everything in the material world. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha... They gave up everything. Bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna, gopī-bhāvāmṛta... Then, in Vṛndāvana, they were thinking of the gopīs' līlā. So after giving up all these things, again they were thinking of material things? Gopī-bhāvāmṛtābdhi-lahari-kallola-magnau. So they were thinking of gopīs' pastimes with Kṛṣṇa. So after giving up everything material, again material? Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, ramyād kaścid upāsanā vraja-vadhubhir yā kalpitā. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, after so much renunciation, so much vairāgya and strict following the sannyāsa rule, again He is recommending gopī? This is foolishness. Gopīs' līlā with Kṛṣṇa is completely spiritual. They do not understand. They think it is material. Therefore it is better not to go there. First of all become experienced in spiritual life; then try to understand gopīs' līlā.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So then the chance is lost. Repeatedly Kṛṣṇa is saying, "You give up all this habit. Just become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Sarva-dharmān..." Nobody will hear. "Why shall I not?" There is a Bengali song, cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo keno dekhbo nā: "If it is gratifying to my eyes, why shall I not see a beautiful woman? Why you are forbidding me?" Cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo: "It is pleasing to my eyes. Why you are forbidding me? This is going on. Cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo. If there is little happiness, don't mind it is flickering. It will go on. The Carvaka Muni: ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet: "Some way or other prepare foodstuff with ghee." "I have no money." Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā: "Just take. Beg, borrow, steal, bring ghee and prepare nice foodstuff and eat and enjoy life." This is the material world. But śāstra says, "No, no, no. Don't do this. This is the hog's business. Tapo. Just try to go, follow austerity." Even those who are so-called advanced in knowledge, karmī, jñānī, yogī, they are also after sense gratification. Karmī is openly after sense gratification and jñānī is subtly. "No, no. This kind of..." Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. "Now I shall enjoy Brahman. I shall become God." This is another side, the same sense enjoyment. Because I have failed becoming a minister or becoming a king, becoming a leader, becoming—I have failed, now I shall become God. Same sense grati.... They cannot understand that this is also sense gratification.
Sudāmā: No, they become very embittered: "Why He permits us...? If He is all-loving God, why He permits us to suffer?
Prabhupāda: No, He's not permit... He forbids, but you...
Acyutānanda: You insist.
Prabhupāda: ...that you have to understand, that you have got little independence. That... Actually they do not understand that.
Sudāmā: No. They're not satisfied.
Acyutānanda: They don't...
Sudāmā: Then they say, "Why He give us independence, then?"
Prabhupāda: Then... That is the distinction between you and the stone. Otherwise you would have remained as stone. Because you are moving, therefore He has given you the independence.
Prabhupāda: Laws of karma is you touch fire, your finger will be burned. This is laws of karma. You cannot avoid it.
Cyavana: They are so complicated, though. Are they actually written?
Prabhupāda: That is another.... This is the law of karma. If you do something which is forbidden, then you suffer. This is laws of karma. Or you enjoy. Both good and bad. That is laws of karma. Either you take the result good or the bad.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: To a devotee it is very clear, the laws of karma. He sees how that God, Kṛṣṇa, is just.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Devotee means tattva-darśī. He has seen the real truth. Devotee means who follows Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is giving the real truth. If you take, then you are devotee. If you don't take, you are nondevotee.
Prabhupāda: Although there is no such symptom that slaughterhouse is going to be closed, but they'll think like that. They'll think like that, the same way. There is no ex... (break) ...pregnancy, first, second, third, then eighth, and the child will go, take birth and... They are thinking like that. So the modern civilization, we are everyone saying. Because you have forbidden: no illicit sex, no intoxication, no meat-eating, no gambling. The whole Western world living on these four pillars. Just see our position. And the same conscious way, everyone is thinking, "If this movement goes on, then how all these nightclubs will go on? How all breweries will go on? How all slaughterhouse will go on, cigarette factories will go on?" This is all foolish. So you cannot expect that we will get more, many friends. That is not possible, because the world is full of Kaṁsas, demons. So we have to struggle and... In the face of so many obstacles we have come to this standard that there is one Hare Kṛṣṇa movement; it is very dangerous to the modern way of life. That much is great, advance. They're feeling the pulse. Now when they are meeting, state obstacles. Everywhere we are meeting obstacles. In Singapore.
Prabhupāda: Go on. Yes, arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matiḥ. Narakī, if anyone thinks arca-vigraha, the Deities as made of stone, made of earth, or made of something material, and guru, the spiritual master, "He is an ordinary man"—these are forbidden. So why guru is to be considered sākṣād dharitvena samasta-śāstrair **, exactly (like) the Supreme Personality of Godhead? That reason is given there. That reason is that he is giving the Kṛṣṇa knowledge; therefore he is as good as Kṛṣṇa. Even though his family members or his friend thinking, "Oh, he has now become guru," still he should be considered the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That reason also given there, that even Kṛṣṇa was taken as ordinary man, but does it mean that He has become ordinary? Similarly any..., our movement, it may appear just like other movement, but because the movement is giving Kṛṣṇa, that means it is as good as Kṛṣṇa. This is the example. Ajñāya haña (follow the order). It may appear to others... And there are so many movements, and the hippies have taken another say(?), but it is not that. It is actually Kṛṣṇa. So long it adheres to the principle, "I'll enjoy, I'll be unaccepted(?)." Otherwise it is ordinary movement. This same man, he's guru, so long he gives the real knowledge of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Go-rakṣya, the point is that cow's milk is very important. Therefore specifically mentioned go-rakṣya. Kṛṣṇa does not say that don't eat meat. It is not really said that meat-eating is forbidden. But meat-eating is tāmasika, prāmādya (indistinct). But He's speaking of go-rakṣya for our special material benefit, that if we protect the cows, we can have the facility of drinking milk, which will help us in keeping our health in order and developing very nice brain tissues to understand spiritual subject matter. Fish-eaters, they're all dull. They cannot understand finer philosophy of life. Meat-eating, not good. But the śūdras, and the less than śūdras, they eat. But for them there's lower animals, not cow.
Rāmeśvara: They've created so many problems to solve. (apparently reading sign) (pause)
Prabhupāda: South Pacific Railway? ISKCON government means this, stop all these four things. No slaughterhouse, close. The meat-eaters may become agitated, they may complain, "No, you are not forbidden to eat, you can eat, but slaughter in your house."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Natural death.
Prabhupāda: The government is not going to maintain slaughterhouse, that's all. We don't forbid you; you can do at your home.
Rāmeśvara: You gave the example of trying to get an M.A. degree.
Prabhupāda: Yes. One has to come to that highest stage. It is not forbidden. That may be ideal, but not for the neophytes. You must.... One who does not know ABCD, what he will know about M.A. degrees? That they do not know. They think that they have already passed M.A. degree. That is their fault.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Āyur-vyayaḥ. Simply spending the duration of life. Just like you have got some bank balance, and if you spend it for useless purposes. Similarly, we have got some bank balance or duration of life balance. Our death begins.... From the next moment of our birth, death begins. Suppose I'll live hundred years. So I am born, one day passed means one day is reduced from hundred years. The friends come, "How old is your child?" the parents says "He is three years old." That means three years he has died. Ninety-seven years balance. So if we waste our, this balance of life for nothing, that is forbidden. Kevalāyur-vyayaḥ. You utilize the balance for some good purpose. No, we are wasting it. The so-called economic development means we are wasting the balance of our life. This is the philosophy. Read it, na tat, huh?
Prabhupāda: Yes. And in the bills they are writing the.... Why this hypocrisy? Why this hypocrisy? In the schools, colleges, you are forbidding, "Don't talk of God," and on the bills you are writing, "In God We Trust." That means if the bill is not paid, don't be dissatisfied, you trust in God. (laughs) Although I'm giving you a piece of paper, don't hesitate to take it. Trust in God, it will be paid. They write, "I promise to pay," but people may not have faith in this word. Actually, I'm paying you hundred rupees—or a thousand rupees-worth currency note, but actually it is paper. But only on faith and trust I'm accepting it, it is one thousand dollars. That much. In last war, the Germany, marks note were thrown in the street. And the bunch of note, taken to the confectioner, "Give me a piece of bread," There is no bread; they throw away. It happened, actually. So these notes are accepted on the understanding that the government will pay. But time may be there when government may be not able to pay. And it has become practically experienced in the last war. So everything should be done scientifically. If we say that in God we trust, then we must know what is God, whether actually we can put our faith and trust in Him, whether He is trustworthy, what is that God. This science should be introduced. There is science; we are preaching that science. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to teach Kṛṣṇa science, science of Kṛṣṇa, science of God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, and if you understood Bhāgavatam thoroughly, then you can understand Caitanya-caritāmṛta. But if you have not understood Bhāgavatam, then you cannot understand Caitanya caritāmṛta. The simple statement, na caitanyāt kṛṣṇāt para-tattvaṁ param iha. Where is Caitanya-caritāmṛta? Bring.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Which volume, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: First volume. That means you are not reading, you simply are referring. This is the difficulty. Without thoroughly reading something, we bring so many questions. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has therefore forbidden, bahu śāstra nā pore. Don't bother yourself reading so many books at a time. You'll be puzzled. Find out this verse, yad advaitaṁ brahmopaniṣadi...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I don't believe there's an index in this first volume.
Prabhupāda: In the first chapter you'll find.
Prabhupāda: This is the trap of māyā, to keep them captivated by sex attraction. All these living entities who are in this material world, beginning from the higher planetary system down to the ants and germs and flies. This is the primary enjoyment, sex. The central attraction is sex. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). The human being, the same sex desire, they decorate it in a different way. But the central point is the same. "So all right, why? It is enjoyment, why you are forbidding?" Saintly persons say, yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham. It is a pleasure of itching sensation. Itching sensation, when you itch, it is very pleasing. But bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ (SB 7.9.45). Aftereffect is very bad, suffering. Itching, if you itch more, it aggravates, sometimes causes so many other by-products and so on, so on. That is fact. But everyone knows it, that "I may enjoy sex pleasure now; the aftereffect will be very bad." Bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. But why people do it again and again? Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. Those who are kṛpaṇa-kṛpaṇa means not brāhmaṇa—those who are not trained up as a brāhmaṇa, they cannot tolerate this itching sensation. They become victimized and the aftereffect is very, very bad.
Moustafa: When I do wrong, for example. When I do lie, when I do something, when I see wrong.
Prabhupāda: Wrong, one thing is wrong in my country, and that is right in your country. Just like animal slaughter is wrong according to our Vedic civilization. Unnecessary animal slaughter is forbidden. But in your country or in other Western countries, they kill so many animals. So what is wrong, what is right? Who will decide?
Moustafa: That's the reason I don't kill animals and I don't eat meat. For three years now.
Prabhupāda: That's very good, very good idea. When we want God, to understand, we must try to understand what is God. What do you mean by God? The God definition is given in the dictionary, what is that? "Supreme being, supreme controller." So how do you understand that supreme controller? What do you mean by supreme controller? In this way we should try to understand what is the idea carried by the word God.
Nava-yauvana: They say because He's not like human being.
Prabhupāda: Because He's not like a human being, therefore He cannot enjoy. There are so many animals, they are not like human beings. Why they enjoy sex? Can you forbid him that "You are not like human being, you cannot enjoy"? This is all nonsense philosophy. Because they do not know what is God, what He is, what is His position, relationship, therefore these nonsense things are said.
Parivrājakācārya: They think that God is their servant.
Prabhupāda: Then there is no more God. God cannot be servant of anyone. God is master. As soon as He becomes servant, He's no more God. Then you are God. Then you do not know what is the meaning of God. Therefore you are rascal. You do not know the meaning of God and you are trying to explain God. Therefore you are a rascal. The difficulty is at the present moment, rascals are leading the human society. No sane man, only rascals. Their philosophy, their science, their politics, their sociology, because they are guided by the rascals, everything is bad.
Prabhupāda: Medicine. Just like a type of vairāgya, sometimes they do not eat. That does not mean eating is forbidden. It is not. It is my personal, I am trying to avoid, that's all. There was a big friend of W. C. Bannerji. You have heard the name W. C. Bannerji? He was one of the three inaugurators of Congress in the beginning. No, that Bannerji, Surendranatha Bannerji, he came later. Almost contemporary. But the Congress was started by I think, yes, W. C. Bannerji. W. C. Bannerji was a big barrister. So he had his friends, contemporary. So he was also brāhmaṇa. So when... He was taking daily his bath in the Ganges, and if he was diseased, was drinking Ganges water. So he became seriously sick. So this W. C. Bannerji, he was a big man. So he asked his permission to bring some doctor. "You'll die in this way."(?) So he persisted, "No, I shall simply drink this Ganges water." So it is not that medical science is in defeated position.
Prabhupāda: Kleśada āsa dehaḥ. Kleśada, as soon as you get a body, kleśada. May have good doctor friend, but I'll have to suffer. We can get some relief, but suffering is there. Therefore na sādhu manye. It is not good. So people are being trained up to become mad, pramattaḥ. And do anything, bring money. This is the modern civilization. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Things which are forbidden, they are doing that. Why? Indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti, only for sense gratification. They have no other ambition. Bring money and gratify senses. This is modern civilization. This is the exact explanation-nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Black money, white money, this money, that..., never mind, bring money.
Prabhupāda: ...Sannyāsī should go on preaching, preaching, preaching, preaching. Practically, I was sitting here in Vṛndāvana, in Rādhā-Dāmodara temple. So at the age of seventy years, nobody goes out. At least from Vṛndāvana nobody goes at the age of seventy years. But Kṛṣṇa asked me. I thought that I must go, Guru Mahārāja wanted it, Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Let me try. So if I had not gone then this institution would not have developed. So this is practical. Mahataḥ nirvicaraṇam.(?) Mahātmā, they must move. So when there is absolute necessity they may stay. Otherwise, they must move. Move on, move on, move on, move on, move on. No staying. That is principle. No staying. I am this old age, I cannot move... My... I... So many... Still I am traveling all over the world. I am simply interested that whatever I have done, it may not be vanquished in my absence. Let me go and encourage them. Otherwise, I have no capacity to move now. But still I am moving. Only for this purpose. Girinaṁ grhna-cetasam.(?) So a sannyāsī must move. A sannyāsī must not stay anywhere more than three days. That is the principle. So he was moving, but his moving is creating disturbances here. Therefore I have stopped. And besides that, a temple is nirguṇa. A sannyāsī is forbidden to stay anywhere else, but in a temple he can stay for more than three days provided there is business. Otherwise, there is no necessity.
Prabhupāda: They are now being, forcibly being taken.
Akṣayānanda: Sterilized.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Akṣayānanda: Yes, I know. I heard about it. Because they are having sex.
Prabhupāda: It is open secret. Because so many women go to hospitals, American hospitals.
Akṣayānanda: Oh, I know.
Prabhupāda: The hospital men, they do not take it serious, "It is natural, a man and woman." But it is strictly forbidden according to spiritual life.
Prabhupāda: How the city life is attractive we cannot understand.
Hari-śauri: (laughs) Ask him. He's always telling us how New York is the best place in the world.
Prabhupāda: You were born in New York?
Devotee: No.
Prabhupāda: That is mother and... (laughter) Jananī jana. (Sanskrit) Any rotten place, but birthplace has got some attraction.
Harikeśa: I feel perfectly at home there.
Prabhupāda: That is natural. Just like when I go to Calcutta. Therefore a sannyāsī is forbidden to live in his native place. There will be attraction. Caitanya Mahāprabhu never returned to Navadvīpa.
Prabhupāda: No, Vedas, they do not know what is Vedas. They think it is Hindu. This is the difficulty. As soon as you say, "Bhagavad-gītā," "Oh, it is Hindu idea."
Dr. Kneupper: Well, many, many people do...
Prabhupāda: But that means they do not know what is the meaning of Bhagavad-gītā, what is the meaning of Vedas. Unnecessarily they put some outside... Just like they are doing now. They do not know what is knowledge, and they are accusing us that we are brainwashing. We are forbidding our devotees, "Don't eat meat." Oh, they are taking it: "It is revolutionary. Eh? How these men, they are stopping?" Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not... Meat-eating is third-class man's eating. It is not denied. Amedhya. But to give us our life, don't kill cows, because it gives you milk, very substantial food. If you want to eat meat, you can eat the hogs and dogs. But don't kill the cows. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). This is special. It is not forbidding meat-eating, but don't eat cows' flesh. That is loss. It is a great loss to the human society. If they do not have sufficient milk production, then their brain will be dull. They will not be able to understand subtle things. Therefore it is better to avoid it. But if you cannot avoid, you can eat some inferior, useless animals. But don't touch the cows. This is Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, go-rakṣya. He never says, "Pig rakṣya." You can eat pig. You can eat the goats, the lambs. There are so many small useless animals. They are eating dogs also. The Chinese people, they eat dogs. So you can eat dogs, hogs, so many other animals. But don't touch the cows. This is God's instruction. And they are advertising that "These Hindus, they are so fool, they are worshiping an animal, a cow." They do not know what is the economic value of this cow.
Prabhupāda: ...so glorious. Glorious. He's glorious. That's all right. But kaniṣṭha-adhikārī will imitate his behavior, but he is not fixed up. Therefore it is not good for him. He is forbidden. This is...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's forbidden to hear from a nondevotee.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They will commit so many mistakes and they'll take it for granted. Just like this "Nitāi-Gaura, Rādhe-Śyāma." That is avoided for kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. There are so many mistakes, rasābhāsa. So two things are there always, two sides. One for the mahā-bhāgavata, one for the ordinary kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, madhyama-adhikārī. So in the temple it is to be supposed generally for the madhyama-adhikārī and kaniṣṭha-adhikārī especially.
Prabhupāda: Yes, realization takes time. Therefore there is no question of realization. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says you simply repeat as Kṛṣṇa says. That will save you. The so-called political leaders, they have no realization, but they manufacture their ideas. That is dangerous. Mislead themselves and others. In Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said, ācāryopāsanam. Amānitvam adambhitvam. This is the process of knowledge. These so-called scholars and politicians, they have no ācārya. Instead of being amānitvam, they're mani... "I have become a leader, so whatever I shall say, it will be accepted." This is going on. Very bad. It is clearly said, as soon as you give up the ācārya system it is rotten. Sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. So things which is rotten, what you'll get benefit? That is going on. Therefore in spite of so many Gītā commentators, big, big leaders, scholars, not a single person is converted into a devotee. Not a single person amongst their followers. It's useless talking. Therefore it is forbidden. Avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtam... Because they are not Vaiṣṇava, politicians and—reject them immediately. Immediately. That is the injunction. I wrote Mahatma Gandhi that "You are so respectful. People have got... Now you have got your svarāja. Please take Bhagavad-gītā seriously and let us preach."
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No... In here also the system was if one is childless, husband is dead or could not produce, she can take help of the husband's brothers. Devareṇa sutotpati: with the help of husband's brother to get child.
Trivikrama: But in Kali-yuga that's been...
Prabhupāda: That is forbidden. Kalau pañca vivarjayet (CC Adi 17.164).
Prabhupāda: You must know how to produce. That is Vedic civilization, dharmaḥ saṁskāra idam...(?) It is not a secrecy, how to produce brain. And because brain is not produced, therefore there is agitation, that they have no brain. They do not know the value of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You have been produced like cats and dogs; therefore you cannot appreciate. Therefore you should stop. But one who has power to produce brain, to produce Kṛṣṇa conscious children, they should be use. Foodstuff is forbidden for a person who cannot digest. One who can digest food, he must eat sumptuously. There is no restriction for him. Food is not bad. One who cannot digest, it is bad for him. This is the conclusion. What is food for one is poison for another. If you cannot use sex power how to use it for better purposes, you should not use sex.
Prabhupāda: My point is that for ordinary discussion, ordinary show, these things are not meant for. That is my point.
Guest (1): No, we are just depicting the līlās.
Prabhupāda: It is not that they should be forbidden altogether. No. That is meant for a certain high-class devotees, not for ordinary persons.
Prabhupāda: They are luscious(?) that... (break) Just like a tuberculosis patient. To him doctor says that "You don't have sex life. That will bring your death." Does it mean sex life is bad? The tuberculosis person, for him it is bad, not for the sane man, not for the healthy man. So when sex life is advised to..., forbidden, that is for the diseased condition. But who is never diseased—he is perfect—for him there is no forbidding of sex life. So you do not understand that in this material condition you are suffering only. You have no brain. Therefore morality, immorality, good, bad, there are so many things. But when one is perfect, healthy, for him all the activities of life is perfect. Just like a physician advised me, "You don't take salt." Does it mean salt is bad? I am in a particular condition of this kidney trouble or liver trouble. For me salt is bad. But does it mean salt bad?
Prabhupāda: Just like people are coming by thousands to see Jagannātha. Do they come to see idol? Wooden Jagannātha? They come to see real Jagannātha, Bhagavān Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise why they will spend so much money and take so much trouble and come here? The atheists may say, "How foolish they are. They are coming here to see a wooden figure and spending so much money." That is the statement of the atheist. But a devotee comes to see—"Kṛṣṇa is here." Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu saw—immediately fainted. So there are two visions. Therefore it is forbidden. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. So the atheist class, they see, "Here is a wooden... Oh, what is the Jagannātha made of? Wood or stone?" They're seeing wood and stone. Similarly, Vaiṣṇavas also they're seeing, "a American," "European." They are blind. They have no capacity to... Therefore śāstra says, "Don't think like that, nārakī. If you think like that, then you become hellish." Because he has no vision, he's warned only, that "Don't do this. It is very dangerous." Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, in India, cow flesh is strictly forbidden. But it doesn't mean that they are vegetarian. They eat fish and goat, lamb, sometimes buffalo. But not to touch the cow. From economic point of view, from vitamin point of view, cow should be given... Just like from the milk of cow we can prepare so many nice things. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44).
Prabhupāda: Most of my disciples they are coming from the Christian group. They can reform. Chanting is also recommended in the Bible, the glories of the Lord. I do not know why these rascals, Protestant... That means... The Protestant means last class. Why they should protest against Jesus law? Protestant means that. They protested. Is it not?
Hari-śauri: I'm not sure about... I don't know much about the history of Protestants.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That King John, who started this Protestant movement? Some king in England.
Hari-śauri: Yes, it was started like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was forbidden not to divorce his wife.
Hari-śauri: That was the Church of England, Henry the VIII.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, Henry the VIII. He started this Protestant.
Prabhupāda: No... Even Hare Kṛṣṇa people. Nāviviktāsano bhavet, mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā (SB 9.19.17). It is strictly forbidden: "You should not sit alone even with your mother, sister or daughter, what to speak of wife." Balavān indriya-grāmo vidvāṁsam api karṣati: "The senses are so strong, even learned persons, advanced, they also become victimized." Balavān indriya-grāmaḥ. Balavān means very strong. When the... It is forbidden even with mother, sister or..., and daughter. That is the only capturing instrument in the material world. Maithunyam agāra, prison house of sex, this material world. It is a prison house, but locked up by sex. The ordinary prison house, they are locked up by guards, and here the locking process is sex. Maithunyam agāra. The words are selected in Bhāgavata. They are thinking free. (laughs) They are imprisoned, locked up. And everyone falsely thinking, "I am free. Our nation is free. I am free." What nonsense free? You are locked up already. That he does not... Now this word is used, maithunyam agāram ajñaḥ. He has preferred to remain in this prison locked up by sex because he is rascal. Maithunyam agāram ajñaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Now he is without wife, children, such irresponsible. That is also one of the complaints. That complaint is regular in your country. Nobody takes care of wife and children.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Oh, one of the big complaints is about sex life, no sex life, except for children. Oh, they don't like that. That is very much complained on their part. "Why you are forbidding sex life?"
Prabhupāda: I'm not forbidding. Kṛṣṇa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Well, in our Bible it doesn't say that."
Prabhupāda: "Your Bible, you take, but we have got our Kṛṣṇa. Dharmāviruddha-kāma. Then why you are taking contraceptive, rascal? You're killing your children. That is very good? Unrestricted sex, and when she is pregnant you kill. Are you human being or rākṣasa demon?" Challenge them like this.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Jagannātha cannot correct. That bad habit he must give up.
Rādhā-vallabha: So we should just leave it exactly.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You should not be more educated.
Rādhā-vallabha: He wasn't changing any of the words. He was just...
Prabhupāda: Nothing of the... This of should be strictly forbidden.
Rādhā-vallabha: So no corrections. That makes it simple.
Prabhupāda: They can divide the synonyms. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Anyone who is completely free from sinful activities, he can understand Kṛṣṇa. If you are engaged in sinful activities, how you will understand Kṛṣṇa? Therefore these things are forbidden. "Don't do this. Understand Kṛṣṇa."
- manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
- kaścid yatati siddhaye
- yatatām api siddhānāṁ
- kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ
- (BG 7.3)
Mr. Koshi: I don't understand.
Prabhupāda: You don't understand, therefore I say you become a student. Understand it. That is our institution. If you don't want to understand, that is another thing.
Prabhupāda: Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). What is the goal of life, they do not know. Svārtha-gatim. Everyone says, "I must see first of all my self-interest." But he does not know what is self-interest. That is not unnatural. If I say that "I must see first of all myself," you cannot blame me, because everyone does that. But you must know what is your svārtha-gatim. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). So it is in paper published that they have been forbidden to go out?
Prabhupāda: So who forbids? Is there any restriction that... (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says here, "Here are some measures to be implemented. The caste system should be abolished." They are always trying to abolish the caste system.
Prabhupāda: The caste system... Where is the hindrance in the caste system? If you want to become a brāhmaṇa, you can become a brāhmaṇa. Why it should be abolished?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Incorrect understanding of it should be abolished.
Prabhupāda: "This is the definition of becoming a brāhmaṇa." Give this.
Girirāja: Their philosophy is to work hard and die.
Prabhupāda: That hog philosophy, which is forbidden. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān (SB 5.5.1). Why? Why you should work so hard? That I said, that Daily Messenger, in the pandal, hanging...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, you've been mentioning so many times about how foolish the..., so many people are. Under the banner of nationalism they are basing their whole life.
Prabhupāda: But they'll not hear. If you forbid the dogs, "Don't bark," it is like that. Why waste time? He'll go on with all politics. Negative, as soon as you say, they'll neglect.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there some subject matter...?
Prabhupāda: It requires training.
Prabhupāda: Just like in the Upaniṣads it is said, paśyaty acakṣuḥ: "He sees, but He has no eyes." So what is that? How we can think of, one is seeing without eye? Aiye. There are so many. Śṛṇoty akarṇaḥ: "He has no ears..." So both things are there. When it is said, paśyaty acakṣuḥ... Mean cakṣuḥ, eyes, as soon we think of eyes, we think of our eyes, own eyes, and therefore it is forbidden, "Not like your eyes." Paśyati. He can see everywhere. Therefore we have to discuss śāstra. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said, aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti (Bs. 5.32). The aṅga, the different parts of the body of Kṛṣṇa, has got all the qualities of other aṅga. Just like we can see with eyes, but Kṛṣṇa can speak also with eyes. He can eat also with eyes. That is difference. Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti. So paśyaty acakṣuḥ means He has different type of eyes, not like our eyes.
Prabhupāda: Missionary visa... (Hindi) That because he's Vaiṣṇava, he'll not go.
Sita Ram Singh: You see, seven lakhs of rupees are unnecessarily used every year.
Prabhupāda: And just now I have got news. We have got a branch in Ceylon. So we thought that instead of going back to U.S.A. or Europe, let him go to Ceylon and renew the visa. So I hear that they have been forbidden, not to issue visa to our boys.
Prabhupāda: When there is argument? Nonsense, how you can argue? And therefore you are rascal. And that is also forbidden. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet: "Things which are beyond your conception, don't foolishly argue, rascal." That will prove your rascaldom. Better accept what the authority says. It is beyond your conception, rascal. Why you are wasting time? That we want to say, that all of them are rascals, and they are simply wasting time by false idea. Cheating. You know, there are companies. They'll... They have got photographic studio. So they adjust their moon hoax. They'll help you. If you have got particular idea... They are going to the moon planet, Mars. Nowhere the rascals go. There is no knowledge. How they can go? Teeny, imperfect. So if we can prove that they have no knowledge of the universe, neither of the position of their...
| Page Title: | Forbidden (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur, Serene |
| Created: | 23 of Sep, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=92, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 92 |