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Flesh-eating (Conv. and Letters)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

The substance of Chand Kazi's speech was that flesh-eating ultimately is not recommended. "But those who have no other means, they eat flesh and they recommend that one big animal should be killed. So India, the cow is big animal, therefore we kill. But that is not recommended for advanced spiritual students."
Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: So Chand Kazi also replied that "Cow killing is also not generally recommended in the Koran. Actually, beef-eating or flesh-eating is not in the higher stage. But those who are inclined to take flesh, for them it is recommended that instead of killing many small animals, one big animal should be killed. So actually in Mecca, Medina, they kill camel. That is also in the mosque." So the substance of his speech was that flesh-eating ultimately is not recommended. "But those who have no other means, they eat flesh and they recommend that one big animal should be killed. So India, the cow is big animal, therefore we kill. But that is not recommended for advanced spiritual students." In this way... So they were friends, and he understood, Chand Kazi understood that it is very nice movement, that "You are preaching love of Godhead. So I did not understand. So my dear boy, henceforward there will be no hindrances in Your movement and I promise that not only myself but all my descendants will never object Your movement, this saṅkīrtana movement."

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Flesh-eaters get fatty very quickly, flesh-eaters. Māṁsa. The skin becomes increased for flesh-eating.
Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Yamunā: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes, eating flesh sumptuously and get fat. Flesh-eaters get fatty very quickly, flesh-eaters. Māṁsa. The skin becomes increased for flesh-eating. You see in your country, the Russia? Russian beauty-big belly, fat. That...

Yamunā: Germans are like that too. Germans.

Prabhupāda: Germans. If you eat meat, you very quickly can get fat. Also too much ghee also. That is also. But ghee will increase your belly only. Just the Marwaris... (laughter) But by eating flesh you'll get sturdy, good lump of muscles. That is... In Āyur-Veda there is a chapter which is called Dravya-guṇa. There is a book, Dravya-guṇa. So they have analyzed so many different kinds of flesh-birds, beasts, animals. How they have analyzed? That "If you eat this kind flesh you will get this kind of result." Hundreds of fleshes. What do they know? They can eat only cow's flesh or dog's flesh or hog's flesh. Yes. But there are so many, even birds, beasts, animals, and so many, analysis. And Bernard Shaw, I think, he wrote one book, "You Are What You Eat."

Haṁsadūta: George Bernard Shaw.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are becoming animals, animals eating animal flesh. Bernard Shaw was vegetarian.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

If you don't follow the Christian principles, how you can claim yourself to become a Christian and how you can ask Jesus Christ to take responsibility for you? These are misleading, and therefore people are coming disgusted.
Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Devotee: They are gambling and eating flesh right in the churches, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, I mean to say, if you don't follow the Christian principles, how you can claim yourself to become a Christian and how you can ask Jesus Christ to take responsibility for you? These are misleading, therefore people are coming disgusted. Otherwise Christian religion is all right. It teaches love of Godhead, teaches to become moral, it teaches to love people, that's nice. These are good principles.

Viṣala: So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Bible it says, "Thou shalt not kill", and the Christians say, "Yes, thou shalt not kill but you can kill animals." (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. Where it is written that thou shalt not kill animals? "Thou shalt not kill." "Thou shalt not kill," means you shall not kill anything.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Natural means, that means he should become animal. Like, he should imitate like the animal. That is man's progress, do you mean to say?
Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: It is the natural order, that all animals... There are many species of animals that eat flesh, and that man is simply following the natural order.

Prabhupāda: Natural means, that means he should become animal. Like, he should imitate like the animal. That is man's progress, do you mean to say?

C. Hennis: Well, that's no doubt the rationale that they use.

Prabhupāda: I understand your point. That we also say, that any living entity has to live by eating another living entity. That is natural. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. It is said in the Vedic literature that one living entity is the food for another living entity.

C. Hennis: That's true.

Prabhupāda: Just hear me. But when you come to the form of human being, you should have discrimination. If you have no discrimination, simply you live like animal, then where is the difference? My only point is the lack of brain. Human being, he has been given by nature... They are also life, the fruits, the vegetables, the food grains, the milk, the sugar, they have got enough food value, and the human being should be satisfied within this group. Why they should maintain slaughterhouse, and do not think that they are not sinful, and still they want to be happy without caring for God? That is lack of brain.

I am speaking this freely because you are a gentleman, but the civilization, modern civilization, everyone is addicted to intoxication, everyone is flesh-eating, everyone is illicit sex, everyone is addicted to gambling. So where is pure person? They require all to be killed, fascist and non-fascist.
Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: The fascist and the non-fascist and this and everyone... And that is being prepared, the atomic bomb. You see? They will be all killed, nature's way. You see? They have become so sinful. I am speaking this freely because you are a gentleman, but the civilization, modern civilization, everyone is addicted to intoxication, everyone is flesh-eating, everyone is illicit sex, everyone is addicted to gambling. So where is pure person? They require all to be killed, fascist and non-fascist. Because according to Bhagavad..., paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). All these people, under different names.

Prof. Regamay: Yes, it's violence for the violence's sake practically.

Prabhupāda: So people are so degraded, and there is no education, and there are so-called leaders. They are themselves degraded, they are themselves blind. So what is the position of the present society? It is very precarious condition. Therefore, at the end of Kali-yuga, people will be more and more, more and more degraded. There will be no more preaching. Kṛṣṇa will come as Kalki avatāra, simply killing, simply killing. That's all, finished.

They give example that "There are many animals; they eat flesh. Therefore why we shall not eat?" I, "You are not animal." Then he was stopped. He thinks that he's human being, but he wants to eat like animal.
Morning Walk -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: How does a person come back in... What merits a person coming back in human life? It seems like an elevated birth. How does mode of passion give one the opportunity of human life?

Prabhupāda: Generally, people are mixed, rajas-tamas. So human life, also, they're animals like. They cannot understand anything. Just like when we speak of "Don't eat meat," they become angry. So what is this human life? It is simply in the form of human life. They give example that "There are many animals; they eat flesh. Therefore why we shall not eat?" The other day, the man... I, "You are not animal." Then he was stopped. He thinks that he's human being, but he wants to eat like animal. So what kind of human being he is? Just see. He is proud to become human being, but he wants to behave like animal. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has taken all these people as paśu. Sei paśu baḍo durācāra. He has not said that he's human being.

nitāi nā bolilo mukhe, majilo saṁsāra-sukhe,
vidyā-kule ki koribe tāra

Vidyā-kule ki koribe tāra. Sei paśu baḍo durācāra. Śva-viḍ-varāha uṣṭra. Bhāgavata says, "They're not human beings." Śva, dog, viḍ-varāha, hogs, stool-eating hogs; śva-viḍ-varāha, uṣṭra, camel. Śva-viḍ-varāha uṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. Anyone who is accepting this body as self, he's animal.

Let the flesh-eaters take it. Immediately, you take the cows after death, take the skin and take the meat also, skin and flesh, and put it into refrigerator and make export.
Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: ...giving to the vultures. Let the flesh-eaters take it. He did not like this idea much. (laughs)

Yogeśvara: It would ruin the economy.

Prabhupāda: Economy? What is that economy?

Yogeśvara: Because there's so much business that depends on the slaughter and the sale of animal flesh. Just like in India now, there is such a low economy that in some of the communist states, they've decided to export meat because it's good...

Prabhupāda: You can export after death. What is the wrong? You can export. Immediately, you take the cows after death, take the skin and take the meat also, skin and flesh, and put it into refrigerator and make export. We simply say that until the death of the cow, don't kill. Let us take the milk. That is our appeal only. What is the wrong there?

We are making various preparations from the milk, and they are very happy, and the cows are also happy. So this is one of our programs, to stop killing this important animal. And the flesh-eaters may wait a little until the cow dies. Then he gets the opportunity.
Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So our recommendation is, "Don't kill cow." Take milk and make thousands of preparations, all nutritious and very healthy. They do not know how to use cow. Instead of killing, if we take, let the animal live and give us milk, and from the milk, we make hundreds of preparations. The milk is nothing but blood, transformation of blood. So we take the blood by killing the animal, but we do not wish to kill such an important animal, but they take the blood in form of milk and make preparation. And those who are flesh-eaters, let them wait for the death of the cow. Then let them eat the flesh, not living condition. So we are making preparation that keep the cows, protect the cows, and when the cow dies, the flesh-eater may take it away. So he can take the skin, he can take the hoof, he can take the horn, he can take the flesh, everything, whatever he likes. Because when it is dead, it is no more useful for us. So the others, who are interested with the skin, in the flesh, in the hoof, they can take it. And they get it free. Without any cost. Because after death, we don't want it. So this is our program. Let the cows live. We take sufficient milk. We are getting milk, one thousand pounds. One thousand pounds daily in our, one center, New Vrindaban, Virginia. So we are making various preparations from the milk, and they are very happy, and the cows are also happy. So this is one of our programs, to stop killing this important animal. And the flesh-eaters may wait a little until the cow dies. Then he gets the opportunity. Why there should be slaughterhouse maintained? As you are one of the leading citizens of Paris, we appeal to you to take up this consideration seriously. Why we should maintain slaughterhouse? If we want to eat the flesh, let us wait till the death. And there will be death. There is no doubt about it. So why they should maintain slaughterhouse? And this is most cruelty. A animal which is giving milk, so important foodstuff, and that is being killed, it does not suit any moral sense of any human being. On the contrary, according to Vedic system, there are seven mothers. And cow is accepted one of them. Because she gives milk, and we take her milk, therefore she's our mother. So this is our philosophy.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

The human being should not complain that there is no sufficient food grains, therefore they're eating flesh. No. Flesh is not for human being. They should live on food grains.
Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: The vaiśyas' business is first to see that in the country there is enough food for eating—both for the human being and the animals. The human being should not complain that there is no sufficient food grains, therefore they're eating flesh. No. Flesh is not for human being. They should live on food grains. Just like dahl. Dahl is as good as meat. It is from food grain. And there is sufficient varieties of dahl they can eat. They can make so many preparations, palatable preparations. Why are the prices of food grains increasing? Because there is shortage. If there is enough food, the price will automatically decrease, because everyone want to sell. So, the price will decrease, naturally. It will be so lavishly available that you can give food grains even to the animals, like cows and goats and other so many animals. Let them eat. That is the business of the vaiśya man. And go-rakṣya. Another business is to protect the cows, and to give them food nicely so the cows will give enough milk. And from milk, you know, so many nice preparations, all full of vitamins. So why they should be killed? You are killing; the blood is not utilized, you are taking the flesh. But flesh is transformation of the blood. And milk is also transformation of the blood. So if you take, just like channa, it is as good as flesh. By taste, by benefit—as good as. So why if you can take the flesh and blood in a human way-blood is transformed into milk, and from milk there are so many good preparations-ghee, yoghurt, burfi, channa, so many preparations are available. This panir, channa, and let the animal live peacefully. Why are you cutting his throat? You require some benefit from the animal. Take this benefit. Why should you kill? If he can live and give better service, then why shall I try to kill? What is this human civilization? Is that human civilization, that I am taking service from you, and I am cutting your throat? Is that humanity? What is the answer?

The tiger is also eating flesh and blood, and human being—a scientific slaughterhouse. The same business, but they have got scientific instrument how to cut the throat quickly.
Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: ...again they have made this car, coming from miles away, but the business is fishing. Just see. Bambhārambhe laghu-kriyā. "Advancement of civilization, we have got car, we are nicely dressed, we are human being, ev..." But what is your business? Fishing. Bambhārambhe... Ārambha, gorgeous arrangement—the business is the same. The skylark, what is called? Skylark? These birds?

Devotee (1): Oh, the seagulls. Seagull.

Prabhupāda: Oh, seagull. They are doing the same business, and after his much advancement of civilization, he is doing the same business. The tiger is also eating flesh and blood, and human being—a scientific slaughterhouse. The same business, but they have got scientific instrument how to cut the throat quickly. This is the advance, advancement of civilization. The dog and cat they are having sex on the open street, and now they are talking of homosex in the school, colleges for education. This is their position. They do not know even what is the standard of human civilization. If you are doing the same business like ordinary animals, then where is the advancement of civilization?

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

If Kṛṣṇa says that, "You give Me flesh," then we can eat flesh also. But Kṛṣṇa does not say that.
Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: ...not vegetarian. We are neither nonvegetarian. We eat kṛṣṇa-prasādam. Kṛṣṇa says, "Give me this food." Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ (BG 9.26). So we offer Him, and then we eat it, so we have nothing to do with vegetarian and nonvegetarian. If Kṛṣṇa says that, "You give Me flesh," then we can eat flesh also. But Kṛṣṇa does not say that.

The flesh eaters still continue to perform animal sacrifice before some demigod or goddess in the name of religion, because in some of the Vedic literatures such regulated sacrifice is recommended. They are so recommended to discourage flesh eating, but gradually the purpose of such religious activities is forgotten and the slaughterhouse becomes prominent.
Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: The Vedas are meant for going back to Godhead, going back home. To revolve in the cycle of transmigration in a series of lives numbering 8,400,000 is an imprisoned life for the condemned conditioned souls. The human form of life is a chance to get out of this imprisoned life, and as such the only occupation of the human being is to reestablish his lost relationship with God. Under the circumstances, one should never be encouraged for making a plan for sense enjoyment in the name of religious function. Such diversion of the human energy results in a misguided civilization. Śrīla Vyāsadeva is the authority in Vedic explanations and the Mahābhārata, etc., and his encouragement in sense enjoyment in some form or other is a great barrier for spiritual advancement, because the people in general will not agree to renounce material activities which hold them in material bondage. At a certain stage of human civilization such material activities in the name of religion, as sacrificing animals in the name of yajña, were too much rampant. The Lord incarnated Himself as Buddha and decried the authority of the Vedas to stop animal sacrifice in the name of religion. This was foreseen by Nārada, and therefore he condemned such literatures. The flesh eaters still continue to perform animal sacrifice before some demigod or goddess in the name of religion, because in some of the Vedic literatures such regulated sacrifice is recommended. They are so recommended to discourage flesh eating, but gradually the purpose of such religious activities is forgotten and the slaughterhouse becomes prominent. This is because foolish materialistic men do not care to listen to others who are actually in a position to explain the Vedic rites.

Fresh or dead, you're eating flesh, that's all. You wait till the death.
Room Conversation -- June 29, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Hari-śauri: But then their argument is that if we don't have big, big slaughterhouses, then there won't be enough supply.

Prabhupāda: No why should...? After all, the animal is going to die. It is not for..., he's permanently. Why should you kill?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But they kill the animal first in the slaughterhouse and then do whatever they have to do.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: But we are killing when they are young, when their meat is fresh. When the body is old, the meat is...

Prabhupāda: That you have to change. Fresh or dead, you're eating flesh, that's all. You wait till the death.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: But the old flesh is not...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, you do not..., you do whatever you like. So at least you can take free of charges a dead cow from us, and you can give us only the skin, and you eat.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: This should be the system.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's so reasonable.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We don't want anything from you; you take it, the whole flesh. You take free. You simply give us the skin, we can utilize it.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even if people would do this, it would be such an advancement.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Because a class of men will demand to eat the flesh. You cannot stop it. So we are giving free: you eat. And from economic point of view, we require the skin for our mṛdaṅga making. So give us the skin. That's all.

We don't reject anything but accept in a regular way. Flesh eaters? All right, you want flesh? "No, I want flesh, but I want this big cow." Why not less important animals?
Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, sense gratification, so long we have got this material body, we require little. But because it is tasty, let us take it, whole pot, that is mistake. This is going on. This foolishness is going on. Sex life is good; simply take sex life, go on and spoil your whole life. That is going on. If everything is accepted in regulative principle, little salt, that's all, that's very nice. But as soon as you think "It is very nice. Let me take simply this," then it is spoiled. That is wanted. We don't reject anything but accept in a regular way. Flesh eaters? All right, you want flesh? "No, I want flesh, but I want this big cow." Why not less important animals? There are so many other animals. The goats are there, the lambs are there, the hogs are there. Take them. Why Kṛṣṇa says go-rakṣya? It is a very important animal. It will give you brain substance, this rasagullā. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says go-rakṣya. But this rascal has no knowledge. The cows give us milk, very nutritious. "Oh, eat the whole cow. Then all nutrition will come." This is their intelligence. Rubbish civilization. Why Kṛṣṇa has recommended go-rakṣya? He never said that other animal. If you are fond of eating flesh, you take other animals, not the cow. Give protection, take milk from it, and prepare nice preparations, that will be good for brain, for your mind. Apart from... There is no question of religious sentiment. From practical.

We request those who are flesh eaters, that "Wait up to the natural death. Why you are killing?"
Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Given protection. If Kṛṣṇa says, go-rakṣya... He doesn't say only give protection to the milk cow.

Guest (8): Once they expire, how do you propose to expose of the body?

Prabhupāda: Then they can eat, those who are eating cows. Just like in our country the cāmāras, they take away and take the skin for preparing shoes and eat the flesh and use the bone. So we request those who are flesh eaters, that "Wait up to the natural death. Why you are killing?"

Guest (9): So you support actually government ban of slaughter.

Prabhupāda: Certainly.

Guest (9): After the cow is dead, if the flesh is taken, it is...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (9): You have no objection.

Prabhupāda: No. The vultures, they live on the cow's flesh, so what objection we have got? We don't... We say, "Don't kill."

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

There are different types, so in the human society, if there are persons who want to eat flesh, so they can eat that nonimportant, small animal. But don't touch cow. That is Gītā's instruction.
Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Dwivedi: It is nobody's religion, what little I know of the few religions, that to advise that "You must take a particular type of flesh and not the other type."

Prabhupāda: No, flesh you can take if you are carnivorous, but not this cow's flesh. That is particularly instructed in Bhagavad-gītā, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Kṛṣṇa did not say that "You be non-meat-eater." That is not possible. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. Every living entity is living by eating another living entity. That is the laws of nature. But there are different types, so in the human society, if there are persons who want to eat flesh, so they can eat that nonimportant, small animal. But don't touch cow. That is Gītā's instruction. Go-rakṣya, He has particularly said. If you are so mean that you have to eat some flesh, there are hogs, dogs, and... And you can eat. But don't touch cow. Gandhi posed himself as a great student of Bhagavad-gītā, but he did not understand a single line. That is the defect. Gandhi took it, Bhagavad-gītā, as a childish play. Dangerous... Therefore country is ruined. You must take Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Then there is authority. You cannot change it. If you change it, where is the authority? Can you change the simple law, "Keep to the right; keep to the left"? No. It is authority. If the direction is "Keep to the right," you must keep to the right. You cannot say that "What is the wrong if I keep to the left?" Then there is no authority.

Correspondence

1972 Correspondence

The Bengalis are generally fish-eaters and some are flesh-eaters, so the Ramakrishna Mission gave this concession that there is nothing harmful in eating flesh.
Letter to Bhavananda -- Honolulu 9 May, 1972:

So far your observation that the Bengalis have been degraded by bogus so-called sadhus, yes, the Bengali's are generally fish-eaters and some are flesh-eaters, so the Ramakrishna Mission gave this concession that there is nothing harmful in eating flesh. The Bengalis got this appetite for eating flesh and fish and at the same time becoming one with God. This foolish theory and fanaticism has killed the Bengali culture. Not all, but a few percentage.

1973 Correspondence

We cannot expect that all of a sudden, being addicted to so many bad habits, your countrymen will give up eating flesh, taking intoxication, sex-life, and so many other nasty things, and become overnight great self-realized souls. That is not possible.
Letter to Lynne Ludwig -- Los Angeles 30 April, 1973:

So these are the descriptions of the more advanced stages of Krishna Consciousness devotees, when has got mature knowledge by development, and at present many of our students are young boys, they are learning gradually and the process is so effective, certain, and authorized that if they stick to it they will come to the right point, as you say, of loving. But that love is not material, that is our point, so it may not be judged on the on the false sentimental platform of ordinary mundane dealings. So to say they are not loving, that maybe true from the materialists point of view—they have given up affection for family, friends, wife, country, race, like that, all based upon the bodily concept of life or flickering sense-gratification—they have become little detached from Maya's love, or lust, and they want Krishna's love, or endless, full, rewarding love, but they have not yet developed to that point, that's all and we cannot expect that all of a sudden, being addicted to so many bad habits, your countrymen, will give up eating flesh, taking intoxication, sex-life, and so many other nasty things, and become overnight great self-realized souls. That is not possible. That is utopian. Just becoming initiated as Krishna's devotee puts him in the topmost category of human society: sa buddhiman manusyesu, sa yuktah krtsna-karma-krt: (BG 4.18) "he is intelligent among human society, he is in the transcendental position, although engaged in sorts of activities". And such devotee, no matter he has not advanced yet to the highest level of spiritual understanding, still he is to be considered the most exalted personality never mind he has got any temporary frailties:

api cet suduracaro, bhajate mam ananya-bhak,
sadhur eva sa mantavyah, samyag vyavasito hi sah
(BG 9.30)

"Even if a devotee commits the most abominable actions, he is to be considered saintly because he is properly situated,". As you will say, "To err is human", so in the neophyte stage we may always expect some discrepancies are there. Kindly see the things in this light and forgive their small mistakes. The big thing is they have given their life, everything to Krishna—that is never a mistake.

Page Title:Flesh-eating (Conv. and Letters)
Compiler:Labangalatika
Created:27 of Mar, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=16, Let=2
No. of Quotes:18