Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the, in the fifth act, ecstasy. At night Caitanya Mahāprabhu would become mad in separation of Kṛṣṇa. He would dash His head on the floor. Sometimes He would write with His nails and sometimes He would go away. Although the house was locked, He would go away, and sometimes He would be found amongst the cowshed of Jagannātha Purī. Sometimes He would be seen in the seashore. One day it was so found that He fell in the ocean and some fisherman caught Him in the net. And as soon as He was in the net and the fisherman touched Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he also began to dance, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare. And his brothers, his fellow men thought, "Oh, he's caught ghost, haunted." So in the meantime, His secretary, Damodara Svarupa came to the seashore and he saw that the fisherman was dancing. Then he could understand that he must have some connection with Caitanya Mahāprabhu, (laughs) otherwise why this fisherman is dancing and Hare Kṛṣṇa? Then asked him, "What has happened to you?" He said, "Sir, I do not know. I am a fish-catcher. Now this morning I caught one big fish, and as soon as I caught I am haunted. So I am dancing." So Swarup Damodar, "Where is that fish, big fish? Let me see." So he saw in the net Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He saw Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then he told him, "Yes. I'll chant some mantra so the ghost will go away." So he made him some show. "All right. Now your ghost is over." So he took away Caitanya Mahāprabhu and when Caitanya Mahāprabhu saw, He told Swarup Damodar, "Why you have brought Me in the seaside? Oh, I was seeing rāsa dance of Kṛṣṇa. I was enjoying." In this way He was always in ecstasy. And in the last stage, the same ecstasy, He entered Jagannātha temple and He never came back. That is the end of (voice trails off) Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... So you have to arrange scenes and sounds. That's all.
Fish (Conversations 1967 - 1975)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: In the ocean. Bay of Bengal. And the fishermen they came to catch fish. So instead of fish, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's body was in the net.
Hayagrīva: Oh, I see.
Prabhupāda: He already dropped Himself on the sea.
Hayagrīva: He was unconscious.
Prabhupāda: Unconscious. He was rolling in the sea.
Prabhupāda: Then when he inquired, he told him that "I have caught this morning a big fish and since then I am dancing. I do not know. I got mad. Perhaps I have been caught by some ghost. So I do not know." So Swarup Damodar just to pacify him, "Yes. I am just driving away ghoul, mean to say, ghost. Don't worry. Where is that fish? Let me see it." And when he saw that fish was caught in the net, and it was Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Kṛṣṇa dāsa: Oh, the lion's all right.
Prabhupāda: Very good. Generally, on the head of the flute is given the mouth of the shark. Shark fish. You have seen shark? Like that... But that is also good.
Prabhupāda: She likes this... (microphone noise) But also marriage problem, one must have a choice. So if we force something, that is not (chuckling) good. At least, in your country it is not... Of course, in your country, the husband...the boys and girls are, I mean to say, not major, whatever the parents force, that is another thing. When the boys and girls are grown up, it is not possible. Just like in India, there was svayaṁvara. Svayaṁvara means the girl will select her own bridegroom. That was allowed to princess. Princess, highly qualified princess. So the father would make a challenge, that "This is the condition. One who can fulfill this condition, I'll offer my daughter to him." So this was generally amongst the princes. So there was great fight. (laughs) Just like Arjuna. Arjuna married Draupadī. You know the condition? Her father made condition: there was a fish on the ceiling and one wheel was circling. So one has to pierce the eyes of the fish through the hole of the circle. And he cannot see directly. He has to see down. There is a reflection in waterpot.
Prabhupāda: Everything is different. You require different type of body to live there, to go there. Just like if you want to live within the water, this body will not be suitable. But the fish, it has got a type of body, they live very peacefully. Similarly, the residents of moon planet, they are meant for living there. You cannot go and live there, abruptly. That is not possible.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Prohibitive. No illicit sex life, no meat-eating, meat or fish or eggs, no, and no gambling, and no intoxication, including cigarette, tea, coffee. These also we take as intoxicants. So these four principle one has to obey, and let him chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. And by this process only, you'll find, how these boys and girls are improving quickly. Process is very simple. Besides that, we have got books, volumes of books, just like Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā. I have given them. Throughout all these years I have written so many books. And they have got ample stock for reading, the whole life.
Woman Interviewer: Yes, Your Grace, it seems to many people that there is probably more. There are probably more people in the world now who are seeking some kind of spiritual new light than probably ever before, or at least, there's more evidence of it. And I wonder if you agreed with that, and if so can you tell me why it is?
Prabhupāda: Yes, That should be the natural hankering with us. Because we are spirit soul we cannot be happy in material atmosphere. Just like you take out the fish from the water, it cannot be happy on the land, similarly, if we are without spiritual consciousness we can never be happy. So people after advancement of scientific knowledge and economic development, they are not happy. They are becoming hippies. So the cause is that they're in search of spiritual life and this is the proper delivery, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness.
Woman Interviewer: So that includes alcohol, marijuana, tea. Anything else?
Prabhupāda: Yes. One has to give up animal food. All kinds of animal food. Meat, eggs, fish, like that. And one has to give up gambling.
Woman Interviewer: Does one have to leave one's family? I think everybody lives in the temple, don't they?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Unless one gives up all these sinful activities one cannot be initiated.
Prabhupāda: Certainly. There are necessities. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya. But the thing is, people are trying to keep the body in overcomfort and the result is they are becoming diseased. We require to... The body is not to be neglected. Just like our system, our Vedic system, (indistinct) nature you take grains, you take fruits, you take milk, sufficient nourishment, so why should you take animal food? It is simply taste for the tongue. You don't require. Now these boys and girls who are with me for the last four years, they have given up everything—meat eating, fish, eggs, everything.
Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. Where it is written that thou shalt not kill animals? "Thou shalt not kill." "Thou shalt not kill," means you shall not kill anything. (break)
Devotee: ...because Jesus ate fish. (laughter)
Devotee (6): He said, "The fish can say, 'Its not what goes in your mouth, its what comes out of your mouth that's important.' "
Devotee: Because Jesus ate fish.
Prabhupāda: Jesus said?
Devotee (6): He said that the... (break)
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) allowed.
Śyāmasundara: The knowledge that we have of Jesus was not direct, but it was written down up to a 100 or 200 years later in another language called Aramaic, and scholars recently have discovered that wherever Jesus refers to fish, distributing fish, that that word actually refers to a type of sea plant that grows in the Sea of Galilee which they make a type of bread out of. And it's not really fish but a type of vegetarian bread. This is what I read in an article. So, we don't have... (laughter)
Devotee (7) (lady): Śrīla Prabhupāda, there was a fish on Laksmi's hand yesterday. The Deity in the temple, where Laksmi had her hand up like this, there was a fish here across her hand. What is this?
Prabhupāda: That is a mark, mark.
Devotee (7): Its not a fish.
Prabhupāda: Not actual fish.
Devotee (7): (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Not that Lakṣmījī eats fish. (laughter) There are many other marks also.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: How many forms of fishes are there within the ocean? (indistinct) Nine hundred thousands of different forms of aquatics. Nine hundred thousands. Jalajā nava-lakṣāni. Jalaja means species of living beings born in the water. There are nine hundred thousand. How many you have got experience in your biology?
Martin: I studied one.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Martin: I studied one.
Prabhupāda: One only?
Martin: One. (laughs) I, I concentrated on one. I learned of some of the (indistinct), (loud crack of thunder in background) maybe a thousand.
Prabhupāda: Nine hundred thousand, exact number.
Guest (2) (Indian man): Swamiji, the four principles you were telling about, are they for purposes of just other-worldliness or is it for material gains in this world or what?
Prabhupāda: No. We belong to the other world actually. We spirit soul, we belong to the spiritual world. Just like fish belongs to the water. Fish does not belong to the land. So if the fish is brought from the water to the land, it cannot be comfortable at any stage. It will die. Similarly you are Brahman, part and parcel of Brahman, particle of Brahman. So unless you return to Brahman, you cannot be happy.
Prabhupāda: So come to Los Angeles and stay there for some time. I am going to Los Angeles tomorrow, so you can come. Live with us and you will be happy. We can guarantee you will be happy. Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Our Vedic mission is sarve sukhino bhavantu: everyone be happy. This is our mission. And we know how to become happy. That is our credit. We know. How to become happy we know. Therefore, you can inform others also how to become happy. Happiness is our birthright. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Living entity is ānandamaya, full of happiness, but they have fallen in a different condition. Therefore unhappy. Different condition. Just like fish taken out of the water and put into the land, a different condition, and it is throbbing, flapping, unhappy. Take it, put it in the water again, and it will be happy. That's it.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: This is the food for the fish?
Karandhara: Yes, bait.
Prabhupāda: Horse dung?
Brahmānanda: No, clams.
Karandhara: Clams.
Prabhupāda: What is that, clam?
Brahmānanda: Shellfish.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (pause) So many...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There are so many flies.
Prabhupāda: They are not flies. They're insect of the sand. They live within the sand. The scientists will say: "You see? The living entities coming out of sand, from matter."
Prabhupāda: Another. (pause) The Japanese, they eat this seaweed.
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is good for the fish-eaters, because it has got fishy taste, although it is vegetable. (pause) Those who are fish-eaters, even by smelling fish, fishy, they'll increase their appetite. Is it not?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Habit is like that. (pause)
Brahmānanda: You once said that the urad dahl is a good substitute for that fish taste.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not taste.
Prabhupāda: They have got suitable beak, suitable beak to capture. Yes. (pause) What is this big bird?
Brahmānanda: A seagull.
Prabhupāda: They also eat fish?
Brahmānanda: Fish and garbage, everything.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (pause)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda? If we add the conservation of energy from the invocation of Īśopaniṣad, it will be a great challenge to science.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is conservation of energy.
Prabhupāda: Why more? Let them eat all the fishes first of all. Rascal, what more? They would take all the fishes and eat first, finish it. Then, then search for another. Simply rascaldom. Simply to take money from the government: "I'm making some research."
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Cheating, simply. And the rascal government will supply money: "Yes." There is already food, sir. First of all you eat. Finish it. Then you make research for others. He cannot eat all the fishes even.
Prabhupāda: They are meant for the birds?
Karandhara: Fishes, other fish eat them.
Prabhupāda: Oh, fish also.
Karandhara: Yes. (pause)
Prabhupāda: Water, they're also composition of atomic grains?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The hydrogen and oxygen, they're called compound. Compound of hydrogen and oxygen.
Prabhupāda: So hydrogen and oxygen, they have got grains, molecular.
Prabhupāda: We have got our process. You do not know. You admit. That is Vedic knowledge. Everything is there. If you want to know, you have to spend so much money to study how many forms are there. But we believe in the Vedas. We get immediately the correct knowledge. Now you cannot challenge it because you do not know. Neither you can know by research work. (pause) Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. The, actually the sea waves, bringing their food. The small fishes or...?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: When a wave comes, they run this way, and when the wave goes down, they run down.
Prabhupāda: When the waves bring the food, so immediately they capture. So there is no scarcity of food, even for the small birds. And we are in scarcity. The scientist is manufacturing tablet.
Prabhupāda: According to the desire of the living entity. All facilities, whatever you want, you can have. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). Another logic is bakāṇḍa-nyāya. Bakāṇḍa. Baka and aṇḍa. Baka, the duck. And aṇḍa, the testicle, testicle of the bull. The bull is going and the testicle is hanging, and the duck is after it. He is thinking here is a fish. You find him always going...when it will drop. Bakāṇḍa. This is nature's study. (break) The baka, the duck, they are after fish. So the testicle is hanging, he's thinking it's a big fish, it will drop now. So it will never drop but he is going after it. Just see. Neither it is fish. Another logic is āja-gala-stana, āja-gala-stana. You have seen on the goats in the neck, just like nipples. If one is expecting milk from that nipple, he is also fool. It is not nipple but it looks like nipple.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So he doesn't have to practice yogic power.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because He is most perfect, He hasn't got to practice. Just like the fish hasn't got to practice how to live within the water, natural. Svābhāvikī. It is called svābhāvikī. Svābhāvikī means by nature. If I want to fly in the sky, I will have to find out... Just like these boys are struggling with the waves with precaution, with so much practice, but a small fish, he doesn't care for big, big waves; it will go against. So that small fish is more powerful than you in that respect. You are struggling against the waves, but the small fish goes against the waves without any difficulty. A small teeny... So many things. There are many superiors than you. The most superior is God. That's all. That is the definition of God. You won't find anybody superior than Him. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). There is no more any superior. That is God.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...which cannot be developed by other living entities, like for example, fish.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That distinction is there between one living entity and another. You have got some power, others have got another power. That's tara-tama, means comparative and superlative... That is called tara-tama. (pause) There are varieties of potencies. All these potencies are visible, some in you, some in me, some in others. But all the varieties in full potency is in God. That is God. Not like this rascal incarnation of God.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.
Prabhupāda: No. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate (Iso Invocation). He is so complete that one minus one equal to one. That is Absolute. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is expanding Himself by so many energies, but Kṛṣṇa is the same. There is no loss in His energy. Even in a human being or animal, he produces so many children. Just like hog—he produces at least one dozen children every year, but the hog is the same. If a hog can have so much power... And formerly one man used to produce hundreds of children. Wherefrom the potency comes? If a man is giving birth to hundreds of children, but still, he is the same man, wherefrom the potency comes? Why man? Even the fish, thousands of eggs they produce, and thousands of fishes are again produced. Wherefrom the potency comes?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: From the supreme controller.
Prabhupāda: The chemical is also matter. Just like with one matter you make... Just like we mix so many matters. Turmeric, salt, spices, they are all matter. But mixing together, the condition is that it becomes a sweet vegetable. Similarly, the chemical is also matter. And water is also matter. So if life comes from matter, then it will come from the water. Why...? There is no use of mixing another chemicals? And it will actually be: Then let the water remain for some time. When it will decompose, the life will come. The stagnant water, life will come. Just like in the ocean, there are so many lives are coming out. Who is going to put the chemical? Nonsense. Where you have got so much chemical? And you can find out tons and tons, millions of tons of fish, but nobody went to give there the chemicals.
Prabhupāda: You see. All utopian. One platform... It is called ākāśa-puṣpa, ākāśa-puṣpa, to get flower from the sky. It is called ākāśa-puṣpa. This kind of plan is called ākāśa-puṣpa. Ākāśa-puṣpa. Or the bakāṇḍa-nyāya. Bakāṇḍa, the testicle of the bull and the duck, he is expecting, "Here is a fish. It will drop, and I will take it." He is following. Have you seen? In India we have seen many. The bull is going on, on the..., and the baka is going on. And whole day and night, he is after that. "It is a fish, big fish. It will drop and I shall take." Bakāṇḍa-nyāya.
Prabhupāda: They are strictly following Vaiṣṇava principles. They... Whenever one comes to become my disciple, the first condition is that no illicit sex; no meat-eating, eggs, fish, nothing of the sort; no intoxication up to smoking cigarette, drinking tea and coffee; and no gambling. So they strictly follow these things. In our society, there is no tea-drinking even. We don't drink tea. So... Intoxication, pāna, chāi pāna, pāna... Pāna is intoxication.
Prabhupāda: That is another story. No Indians are dying, not by eating cow's flesh. That, that is the theory at the present moment given. But there are so many vegetarians in India. They do not touch even fish, or eggs, or animal flesh. They're quite healthy. It does not mean...
Yogeśvara: I think his answer would be that vegetarianism is reserved to the rich people who can afford it. That if you're poor, you have to eat whatever you can get.
Prabhupāda: Well. Now in India, meat is selling at high price than vegetable.
Professor: Oh. Yes?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Because Vivekananda said, "Oh, what is the harm there, in eating? You can eat whatever you like. It doesn't matter in religion." It was the first. And he himself was eating anything. So all the Ramakrishna mission sannyāsīs still, they are eating meat, egg and everything, especially in America. Yes. Fish is no consideration. That is daily affair. And the turkey,... Yes. Instead of preaching here, they have taken the Western method. And Vivekananda's preaching is like Western missionaries-open hospitals, school...
Professor: You are right, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He had no spiritual knowledge. So therefore it has not been successful. They are preaching in the Western countries... As far I know, in America they have got ten or twelve branches. I am working for the last six years only. I have got already fifty branches. And each branch, there are devotees like them, not less than twenty-five, up to two hundred, three hundred, all dedicated souls.
Hṛdayānanda: You said yesterday, adānta-gobhiḥ.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Big, big yogis, they fell victim to sex. Viśvāmitra Muni, many other instances! Saubhari, Saubhari Muni. He was meditating within the water, and some fish just, what is called, licked up, his gender.
Bali Mardana: Copulating.
Prabhupāda: Copulating, yes. And he felt sex desire, that itching sensation. Kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham. Kaṇḍūyanam means itching. It is actually itching. The śāstra says it is kaṇḍūyanam. Kaṇḍūyanam means itching, the scratching, the itching.
Devotee (2): There is a fish called the starfish. It has five arms, and if it loses one arm it will grow that arm back, or that arm will grow back four other arms.
Prabhupāda: (laughs)
Karandhara: That's just material generation.
Prabhupāda: No, no. I have already said there is an idea that even in the insignificant material element we find this, that one is lost, another's grown. (break) So when the Supreme Absolute Truth is there, how much potency? That is explained in the Vedas. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate (Iso Invocation). This is the idea of the Absolute. You take the complete from the complete, still it is complete.
Devotee (2): But the fish take the hook.
Prabhupāda: Hook?
Devotee (2): When the man is fishing with the hook, the fish that takes the hook...?
Prabhupāda: That ignorance is there, but the hook... Not only out of ignorance, out of greediness. That if you become more greedy, he knows that there is sufficient food in the sea, but the rascal is greedy, he's taking another... Due to his rascaldom, he's dying. Greediness. So similarly, all arrangement is there, God-made. Even for human beings. But because they're rascals, they're greedy. They're greedy. Although their greediness cannot satisfy them, everyone is greedy because the law of nature is equal to everyone. If law of nature can supply food to the birds and beast and everyone, why not to the human beings? What human being has done? But they're rascal, greedy, therefore suffering. More, wants more. There is already food grains, milk, flowers, fruits, immense supply, but he'll cut the throat of another animal. Greedy. And they're suffering, committing sinful activities.
Umāpati: In the Bible, Prabhupāda, there is a statement that many people follow, saying that, where Jehovah says, "Man shall have dominion over the animals, over the fishes and..."
Prabhupāda: That is already there. But that does not mean man should kill them.
Prof. Wolfe: And Jesus did not reverse it.
Hṛdayānanda: Just like a man has dominion over his children.
Prabhupāda: Yes. A father-mother has dominion over the children. Does it mean that he shall kill him?
Umāpati: And eat them?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is all rascals.
Prabhupāda: Must be varieties. If in this inferior nature there are so many varieties, so how many superior varieties are there. That you can simply think of. That is acintya. Even in this material world, there are different planets. One planet is superior than the other planet. The inhabitants of one planet are far, far superior than other planets. Just like there is a planet which is called Siddhaloka. Here, in this planet, people practice mystic yoga for getting so much wonderful power. They are naturally... Here also we see. Just like if I want to fly I cannot. But another small bird, he'll fly. Is it not? I... If I have to live within the water, I have to make so much arrangement. But a small fish is in the big ocean; he's living there. Yes. So... But because one bird is flying in the sky without any machine, it does not mean that he has become superior to me. But comparatively I see it has got superior power. So these varieties are there. You cannot deny it. So similarly, as in this planet we are trying to get some mystic power by yoga practice, there, in other planets, it is automatically there. They do not require any machine from going one planet to another. They can simply, by will, they can go. Even in this yog... in these material planets, this planet also, there are yogis. They take early in the morning bath in four places, at Jagannātha Purī, at Rāmeśvaram and what is called, Haridvar?
Devotee: Benares.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (laughing) Then it is all right. You are American fools. And she is Japanese. Japanese are very intelligent. Yes. Extraordinarily. They're just like Bengalis. Yes. Because mostly they eat fish. Fish is very good thing. It has got sufficient quantity of phosphorus. So brain becomes nice—for this crude work, not for fine spiritual work.
Sudāmā: In India. Is much rice consumed?
Prabhupāda: No... In Bengal. In Bengal the staple food is rice. Like Japanese.
Sudāmā: Yes.
Prabhupāda: General people, they eat rice and fish, especially Bangladesh. They have got enough quantity of fishes. So they use rice and fish.
Prabhupāda: That is also community.
Dr. Patel: That is why twenty-four avatāras have been shown to us in Bhāgavata, from fish to the highest.
Prabhupāda: Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). If one is paṇḍita, he does not make any distinction between animal community and human community.
Dr. Patel: Śuni caiva śva-pāke ca
Prabhupāda: Ah, that is paṇḍita. As soon as you see, "This is animal community, this is human community," then you are not paṇḍita. You are still in, equal learning. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu (BG 18.54).
Dr. Patel: Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām.
Prabhupāda: That is real vision.
Prabhupāda: So they are trying to get that siddha, the perfection, by so much yogic process, but another living entity, without understanding any yogic process, can do that. So these things are not very great gains. There are... In different planets there are different living entities. Just like we cannot touch fire, but in the sun globe there are also life, human beings, but their body is made of fire. Just like in the water. I cannot go into the water, but there are so many small fishes, they are living very nicely. So this we do not know. We are trying to gain success in these material activities, but by God's will, there are different living entities. They have already all the successes. So therefore our real business is not to waste our time to get any material success. Our real business is how we shall be successful to become an obedient servant of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is real success.
Prabhupāda: Then where is this nonsense? How he can say? Actually, Christians cannot eat any meat because the word is "Thou shalt not kill." (break)
Pañcadraviḍa: Christ Himself was distributing fish, to the hungry, to the poor. He gave out so much fish.
Prabhupāda: That was not killing fish. That is my support.
Pañcadraviḍa: We do not kill the fish either. We simply purchase it in the supermarket.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Directly, fish, as soon as taken from the water, he dies. And Christ... Then how can you support Christ that if he has done killing business himself and he instructs others not to kill?
Akṣayānanda: Does that mean you are calling Jesus Christ a hypocrite?
Prabhupāda: Hypocrite.
Prabhupāda: But I can say, "Why not to the animals? You can eat fish only." Then I'll write book like that. Jesus Christ allowed the fishermen to fish, so then you can fish. Why you are killing cows? That will be my argument. If you are actually following Christ, all right, you can take fish, but why you are killing animals, and other animals? Why you are going that "Because Christ has allowed some fish killing, therefore everyone should be killed"? What is this nonsense? You follow strictly. All right, fish-killing.
Pañcadraviḍa: What is the difference between fish killing and goat killing?
Prabhupāda: Then everyone will say what is the difference between animal killing and and man killing?
Pañcadraviḍa: There is big difference between animal killing and...
Prabhupāda: Why big difference?
Pañcadraviḍa: If a man goes into the road he runs over a dog, there will not be so much punishment.
Prabhupāda: And fish combined.
Dhanañjaya: Yes, seahorse. Did such an animal exist, seahorse? Or is this man's imagination?
Prabhupāda: No, seahorse we have heard, there is. Sea elephant, seahorse, there are. (break)
Atreya Ṛṣi: ...fighting and all kinds of games. Four boys died that year trying to... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...and Roman climate the same? No.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Rome is a little warmer, isn't it?
Dhanañjaya: Yes.
Richard Webster: Is it wrong to kill, to eat fish?
Prabhupāda: You cannot eat anything, even grass, without the sanction of God, what to speak of fish and others. You cannot eat even a piece of grass. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ yat kiñca jagatyāṁ jagat, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). Everything belongs to God. You can simply enjoy after being sanctioned by God. Otherwise not. This is real philosophy. Everything belongs... Just like in this room, it is supposed that everything belongs to me. Even my students, they ask, "May I take this?" They have got right to take, but still, they ask. Similarly, you cannot touch anything—everything belongs to God—without His sanction. This is God consciousness.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: The Khān Vaiṣṇavas.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So it requires the devotee who can explain from any godly literature about God. How rascal they are! "Jesus Christ ate fish. Therefore we shall maintain big, big slaughterhouse." Just see the argument. Then, in the Bengali, mosa makta kanan (?). There was a mosquito, and one is asking, "Bring a cannon." "Bring a cannon." Mosa makta kanan. Jesus Christ ate somewhere. There was no food available to eat, might have. Accepting he ate, but that, does it mean that you have to maintain slaughterhouse? Just see. And besides that, he might have done anything. He's powerful. He can eat. Therefore the other day I said, "He can eat the whole world." But you cannot imitate. You have to follow his instruction. That is Christianity.
Prabhupāda: That we also say, pralaya-payodhi-jale **. Because the whole planet was submerged in water, so there was life in water, aquatics, fishes. That is not a very new thing. We know it.
Paramahaṁsa: I have a question about evolution. Our position is that all the species have been established by Kṛṣṇa, even before creation. But yet, in the creation, it comes about through an evolutionary process?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So, not only the animals. The trees, the plants, the insects, the birds, the bees, the aquatic animal: fish. Everyone has got soul. So anything, which has got life symptom, it is due to soul and so long the soul is there the change of body takes place. A child born, if it is dead, the change of body does not take place. You cannot understand?
Lady (2): No.
Prabhupāda: You have got now a different body, but you had a body like a child, so you cannot understand this? Why is that? Even a child can understand. You were also sometimes a body like this young girl. You do not believe that?
Yogeśvara: (French)
Lady (2): (French)
Yogeśvara: She says she can recollect.
Prabhupāda: No, but who recollects? The soul. The body is changed. The body is changed, but the soul is the same and therefore she can recollect.
Prabhupāda: That is... When we pray, offer pray, it is stated that that is his, one of the qualifications. Sada... Nindasi. Nindasi yajña-vidher. The animal sacrifice is recommended... Some of the sacrifices or all of them... So that animal sacrifice was not meant for eating. Just to give them new, rejuvenated life by the Vedic mantras, to test that whether Vedic mantras are being chanted properly. And because at the Kali-yuga there is no such expert brāhmaṇa, all sacrifices are forbidden. So later on, as they deteriorated, they began to offer sacrifices, and if anyone wants to stop it, they will say, "Oh, it is recommended in the Vedas." Just like these rascals, Christian: "Oh, Christ ate fish. Therefore we must maintain slaughterhouse." Just see how rascal they are. Supposing Christ ate somewhere fish. Therefore they would maintain regularly slaughterhouse of cows. This is their brain.
Professor Durckheim: They are educated too.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are always engaged in devotional service. So unless there is some realization, how they can engage their time in this way? (break) "You are human being. You can eat. I have given you fruits. I have given you vegetables. I have given you food grains. I have given you milk, very nutritious, palatable, containing all vitamin ABCD. And why should you kill animals? Why should you give trouble to the others?" This is self-realization, that "Here is another self. The same active principle is working there. The body is different. Why shall I kill him?" So they have realized it. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Equal vision to all living entities, that the self, that active principle, is working in the fish, in the insect, within the tree, within the plant, within the animals, within the birds and within me. This is self-realization. That active principle is soul, and the soul is migrating from one body to another as you are migrating from childhood to babyhood, babyhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood. So the soul is the same. The body is different. The body is material and the soul is spiritual. When one comes to this understanding, that is self-realization.
Guest (1) (German man): But the other planets has a more spiritual form than our planet.
Prabhupāda: No. Material forms. Just like in the water, the fish is there. That is also material form. But you cannot live within the water. Neither the fish cannot live on the land. So in different planets there are different types of atmosphere and different types of body also. You cannot go to the sun planet. You cannot go to the moon planet because that is a different atmosphere. But there are living entities. They have got their suitable body.
Prabhupāda: And we are practically doing that. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa—this is our business. We always keep the chanting beads just like you are keeping. Yes. Chant, that's all. Everyone should do. Where is the harm? If everyone takes this chanting... You are Christian; you have taken. Why not other Christians? They also can take. Chant. There is no loss. By chanting, there is no loss, but there is good gain, so why should we miss this opportunity of chanting? The cats and dogs, they cannot chant. But we have got human tongue, we can chant. There is no loss, but there is great gain. Now, these young boys, they are always chanting. It is only practice. It is training. These young boys and girls, they could go and act so many things frivolously, but now they have given up everything. They don't eat meat, egg, fish, no intoxication up to drinking tea or smoking, no gambling, no illicit sex and chanting. (pause) If you can cooperate, then we go to the church and chant, "Christ, Christ, Christo, Christo, Christo, or Christo, Christo." Is there any objection?
Pater Emmanuel: No.
Prabhupāda: ...comfortable, it will never become (indistinct). Do you understand this? Fish is taken from the water and you put on the land, so you may give the fish very velvet cushion and anything, all nice thing, but will, the fish will be comfortable?
Guest (1): No.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, if you... We living entities, we are spirit soul. We are not this material body. Unfortunately our system of education is so dull that the authorities do not know that we are not this body, we are spirit soul. Still, they are big, big philosopher, big, big politician and big, big leader and social authorities. But real thing is mistaken. He is accepting this body as self, or he is thinking that "The bodily comforts will make me happy." But that cannot be because the body is made of matter and we are spirit soul. The same thing: From water, you catch the fish and put on the land; it will never be happy. So long you'll continue to have this material body, there cannot be any happiness. And so many problems. The main problem is birth, death, old age and disease. So this is due to this material body. Therefore an intelligent man should know that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul; my field of activities are on the spiritual platform; and then I will be happy." So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means educating people how to be situated on the spiritual platform and be happy. This is the sum and substance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Guest (2): ...in this material universe?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like when you say, "United States of America," that's actually a place. There are living entities. There are men and mountains, rivers. Everything is there. Similarly, all these planets, they are inhabited by living entities. There are similarly cities and towns and mountains and rivers and oceans. Everything is there—of different pattern. Just like the moon planet. It is... The temperature is 200 degree below zero. So you cannot go and live there. But there are living entities who can live there. Just like even on this planet, there are living entities in the Arctic region, but for us it is very difficult to live there. And there are different climatic influences. Even on this planet. One place is suitable for one kind of man, another place is suitable for another. Just like we are Indian. We cannot tolerate such, I mean, what is called, pinching, cool. So similarly, in India you cannot tolerate scorching heat. So for each and every planet there are different patterns of living entities. They can live. Just like you cannot live within water. For that reason you cannot say nobody can live in the water. That is foolishness. You cannot live. You say. So there are so many fishes, varieties of fishes. They are living. Don't carry your present experience to others. That is not very good argument. Now, here the so-called scientists, they are saying in other planets there is no living entity. Why? They are putting so many reasons, that "This is lacking. This is lacking." But what do you know, what is lacking and how...? These things are not accepted. You do not know anything about the other planets. How you say there is no living entity?
Prabhupāda: The sinful, yes. Four items we prohibit our students. They do not indulge. Illicit sex life, meat, fish, egg-eating, intoxication up to cigarette smoking, drinking tea, coffee, and gambling. These are the four pillars of sinful life. So unless one gives up these four things he cannot understand what is God, what is God's kingdom, what is our business. Nobody can understand.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: One of the plans for science in the future is the food from the ocean.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Food from the ocean is already there—fishes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, not only fishes. They're trying to investigate more.
Prabhupāda: Fish is not sufficient?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, fish is not enough.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says that "You and Me and all these soldiers, we existed before, we are existing now, and we shall exist in this way in the future." Where does He say that "We shall be mixed up"? He never says. And these rascals, they have got so many parties, the same thing. Where do you get this idea? There is sayujya-mukti, but Kṛṣṇa never says that "You take it." All this Ramakrishna Mission, all these, this (indistinct), he gives the example that rivers come from different sources, but when it comes to the ocean it is mixed up. Why don't you see within the water? Within the water there are big, big fishes, they do not mix up with the water. They see superficially the water. This is going on.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: There is no body. They are reserved in the Viṣṇu's body. And again, when there is creation, they come out. And therefore matter comes from the spirit. Matter is there, creation, matter. So take advantage of the matter. Just like the cloth is there. You cut it according (to) your body, and there is a coat. The spiritual body is already there. Now the matter is there. Now, from matter, you take. You make your body like a dog, like a ant, like a fish, like a tree, like this.
Prabhupāda: So when the animal comes to higher consciousness, that is spiritual consciousness. We are combined at the present moment. We are actually spiritual, but some way or other, we have come in contact with matter, and we are covered by the material body, and... But we cannot become happy with this material interest. That's a fact. Just like the fish cannot be happy on the land. The example is: just like the other day we saw one crocodile. One or two... two, three?
Paramahaṁsa: Two or three.
Prabhupāda: In where?
Paramahaṁsa: Caracas.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Cat-patha(?). Just like when you take a fish from the water and put it in the land.
Bhagavān: Oh, throbbing, throbbing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is right word?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. All politicians, political party, nobody is in peace, simply throbbing-making this party, making that party, combining this party, and the anti-government troops, and this, that, so many... There is no other business.
Prabhupāda: Whale (indistinct).
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No but these dinosaurs move on the land. They're not fish. And they're very big and we have information...
Prabhupāda: So what is to you? You are also a created being. He's also created being. That's the (indistinct). You are not creator of the (indistinct)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But you say that there was more intelligent life previously, whereas we see these dinosaurs were previously.
Prabhupāda: But you do not see, you simply imagine.
Prabhupāda: For protection. Not for eating. Rascals. Bible does not say that you kill animals. Then Jesus Christ is a hypocrite. His commandment is, "Thou shalt not kill." If he allows killing, then why does he say, "Thou shalt not kill"? Then you prove that Jesus Christ is a hypocrite. Are you following a hypocrite? Nonsense.
Paramahaṁsa: So we understand. We will stop eating meat, but we can still eat fish and eggs. Because there are plenty of fish and plenty of eggs.
Prabhupāda: That is also better than killing animals.
Amogha: Jesus also gave fish to the people in one part of the Bible.
Prabhupāda: When there is no other food, you have to take anything. That is another thing. But when there are other foods, grains and vegetables, why should you eat anything? You have to eat and live. So if you can eat and live innocently, why should you kill? Then, Christ says "Thou shall not kill." Was he a fool, rascal, that he advised "Thou shall not kill"? He had no idea?
Śrutakīrti: But he meant kill other people.
Amogha: They think catching fish is great sport, great fun.
Prabhupāda: They haven't got any business. They must do all of these sinful activities. That is the defect of the modern civilization—keeping all men in darkness.
Jayadharma: Does that mean that the people that catch the fish have to also become fish?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. And who will become fish? That they do not know, how the transmigration of the soul is going on. They cannot explain wherefrom the fish are coming, wherefrom the trees are coming. Everything in darkness. And this civilization, this dark civilization, is going on, in the name of civilization. They cannot explain what is death, what is next life. Sometimes they say, "It is nature," but how nature is working they do not know. All darkness, mūḍhā na abhijānāti, mām ebhyaḥ parama. The birds and beasts are also catching fish, and they are also catching. What is the difference? What is the difference? They have got this nice human body, and they are acting like birds and beasts. And they are kept in darkness. There is no enlightenment. This is the modern civilization. (pause) The smell. What is the smell?
Amogha: If we go up there, I don't think it will be there.
Prabhupāda: Some decomposed things? And this is not good for you. (pause) They fish this side?
Amogha: The birds? Seagulls.
Prabhupāda: He has got the human body. He also... These birds are catching fish. He does not know that he has got other business.
Amogha: At the school, the students say, "Why not eat fish? Jesus was passing out fish, in the Bible. And we all catch fish. We like to catch fish." And then we tell them about meat. So, they think that we are loosing a great pleasure, that we cannot eat meat.
Prabhupāda: You tell them, that you will be very merry—that's all right. But do you want to stop these merry affairs all of a sudden? Ask them, what will they reply?
Amogha: They'll say "No, we don't want to stop."
Prabhupāda: Christ was killing animals?
Śrutakīrti: Well, he instructed his own disciples to distribute the fish. So he was also involved in killing of animals.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but he said that the fuits and vegetable should be your flesh. What is that?
Śrutakīrti: Well, that was before Christ. He never said that.
Paramahaṁsa: He also said that.
Śrutakīrti: Where does he say that?
Paramahaṁsa: He said that in the (inaudible). Yes. The Bible says that and Christ also spoke that, that the grasses of the fields and the fruits of the trees shall be your meat.
Prabhupāda: Then there is contradiction?
Paramahaṁsa: Yes. The Christians always say that Christ was eating fish and drinking wine, so what problem have we got? Drinking a little alcohol, eating a little meat?
Prabhupāda: Then how did he say that "Thou shall not kill"?
Prabhupāda: But supposing Christ distributed fish, but did he say that we shall maintain regular slaughterhouse for killing animals?
Śrutakīrti: He was against that. He threw the men out of the temple, because they were selling lambs in the temple to be offered at the altar. So he kicked them out, saying this temple is not a place for selling animals for slaughter.
Paramahaṁsa: But in one place they say Christ encouraged fishermen. Because he came and the fishermen were fishing on one side of the boat, and Christ came along and said, "You are fishing on the wrong side of the boat." He said, "Put your nets on the other side, and you will get more fish." An they did that and they got huge amounts of fish. And so they were encouraged in their fish-eating in this way.
Srutakirti: Better move over. (Car approaches and passes)
Prabhupāda: Why they are coming here?
Devotee (1): They're coming to fish and to surf.
Prabhupāda: Waste time. Finding out opportunity how to waste valuable time. They do not know that every moment they are dying. Dying, death has begun since he, one takes birth. And our business is before dying we must be prepared for the next life. But they have no knowledge. That is ignorance, tamo-guṇa.
Devotee (1): So if we as devotees in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement are transcendental to these modes, does that mean that we can...
Prabhupāda: You are not transcendental. You are trying to be transcendental. You should always remember that "We are trying to be transcendental." When you are actually on transcendental state, you will not be affected by any modes of material nature. Therefore you should be very cautious and careful. Just like on the sea, you are in the boat. You are transcendental. But the boat may can merge into the water any moment unless you are very carefully plying it. At any moment. You are not in the water, you are safe on the boat, but if you do not carefully ply your boat, then you can fall down at any moment. The comparison is given, nṛ-deham ādyam sulabhaṁ sudurlabhaṁ. Sulabhaṁ. This human form of body is just like a very nice boat to cross over this ocean of ignorance, and the guru is the pilot or the captain.
Prabhupāda: First of all, you have to understand what is the basic principle of civilization, what we want to fulfill, what is the goal. There are different species of life beginning from aquatics, fishes and animals in the water. Then, as the water dries up, then vegetation come. In this way there is evolution from aquatics to vegetable life, then moving, insects, reptiles. Then, gradually, birds. From insect, the flies come out, and then flies gradually comes to bird. Then from birds to beast, four-legged. Then from beast to human being. Then human being, the aborigines, uncivilized. Then you come to civilized life, which is generally known as Aryan life. So the Aryan civilization, Vedic civilization... In this way we get this human form of life, developed consciousness. Now we should try to understand, "What I am? Am I this body or something else?" That is the subject matter of enquiry. So where is that department of knowledge?
Justin Murphy: Where do we fit in?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Because the whole world was merged into water. So evolution takes place from aquatics, fish. Then, as the water dries up, there was vegetation, plants. Plants, creepers, trees. Then, gradually, the insects, moths, reptiles, serpents, they come out. And then, from insects, the birds, varieties of birds, and aquatics, 900,000. And eleven hundred thousand, 1,100,000 species of these insects and reptiles. And one million varieties of birds. And then beasts, animals, four-legged, there are three million varieties. So all together this is eight million. Huh? No?
Australian devotee: 400,000.
Prabhupāda: Because you cannot understand it, you rascals. He said that "Thou shall not kill" and you killed him. You are so intelligent. "And first of all let us kill this man who is advising 'Thou shall not kill.' " Your intelligence is so sharp. Guru-māra-vidyā. First of all kill the guru. That is called guru-māra-vidyā. Guru advised that you take food in goodness, sāttvika. So he first of all advised that don't take fish, just like we are advising, meat, eggs, don't take. Then they thought that "The cow is very pure. Cow is very pure, so let us eat cow, sāttvika."
Śrutakīrti: That is pure, sāttvika.
Devotee: "Every part of the cow is pure, so we can eat every part of it."
Prabhupāda: So when Guru Mahārāja inquired that "You have given up everything bad?" "Yes, now we are eating cow." "What?" "No, it is sāttvika." "No, no, no, no, no. You cannot eat even." Then they thought, "Then what we shall eat? Guru Mahārāja is sāttvika, most sāttvika. So let us eat him." (laughter) So it is called guru-māra-vidyā. "For sāttvika eating, let us eat Guru Mahārāja." This is intelligence. "Why so much botheration seeking here and there? The Guru Mahārāja is there."
Śrutakīrti: But if we kill the cow without it, while it is healthy, then it is very good to eat the meat.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but the argument is die. As soon as you kill, it is died. As soon as you take the fish out of the water it dies. So how you can say that dead animal is not good? It is dead. For argument's sake, "A dead animal is not good," but you make him dead. Then you eat. Where is the argument that dead animal is bad? You are eating dead. That means they are not even common sense. That is the rascaldom. Rascal means one who has no common sense even.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break) ...and the water. (Hindi). (break) ...and one fourth land and we are puzzled with the increase of population. But there is no puzzle, three-fourths water population. Wherever you go, you get immediately many thousand fishes. So just imagine how many fishes are there. These rascals say "Overpopulation." Why not overpopulation there? Huh? The fishes, for want of food, they are dying and floating? Why overpopulation? All their calculation are simply bogus. There is no question of overpopulation. Even... Just like people simply can live on mango and coconut. Where is the question of over-population? It is chastisement. When one cannot get proper food, that is not due to overpopulation. It is due to godlessness. As soon as people will become godless, nature will chastise them—no food, no rain, suffer. This is law. (?) (break) ...signpost.
Prabhupāda: You can go, and you will find in his belly. (break) You think simply small fishes are there? As the ocean is big, similarly, very, very big fishes are there. (break) ...up. Remain deep in the water. (break)
Guru kṛpā: A very dark condition.
Prabhupāda: Why dark condition? They are living very happily.
Guru kṛpā: It's dark in the bottom of the ocean.
Prabhupāda: No, not dark. They have got their light. Everywhere arrangement is there. Otherwise how they can live?
Guru kṛpā: It's also very cold in the bottom of the ocean.
Prabhupāda: Cold for you, (laughter) not for them (laughs). Everything, these rascal scientists consider in relation, relatively. But relative world means every living being is relatively existing with a condition. And he is thinking only his relative condition. That is their foolishness. You cannot fly in the sky; a small bird will fly. That is called relative world. For his condition, it is different from you.
Śrutakīrti: They've done filming at the bottom of the sea, and they've seen many of the fish at the bottom of the sea, in the deep portions, they make their own light. From their bodies they have light.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like down this planet there are dark... There are many other planets, Talātala... They are dark. The sunshine does not go there. But there are serpents who has got big, big jewels on the hood. That makes the light.
Prabhupāda: ...he thinks, "I am on the surf," then next life he will be fish.
Bali-mardana: All the surfers will be fish? If they think that within the water, they will be fish. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...evolution.
Bali-mardana: Then they have to come all the way back to the human form of life.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...childhood we used to play one chessboard, that one serpent is there. If the, what is called, the guti(?) ?
Śrutakīrti: Dice.
Prabhupāda: Dice, yes. If the dice falls on the face of the serpent, immediately it comes down. We have to come to the tail.
Prabhupāda: Veda. Veda means knowledge. What is this? Some animal?
Paramahaṁsa: Fish. It has those horns, spines, so that no one can bother it. Protection.
Paramahaṁsa: It's a porcupine fish.
Bali-mardana: Blowfish.
Śrutakīrti: They blow up like a ball. When someone comes to them, they expand very large.
Paramahaṁsa: And their spines stick out straight. It's very dangerous.
Bali-mardana: Poisonous. (break)
Śrutakīrti: It's twenty-five before seven.
Harikeśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, do we say that they've gone to Rahu simply to placate them?
Prabhupāda: No, accidentally they went to Rahu. Maybe.
Prabhupāda: These people, they do not understand. What kind of civilized men they are? Less than a child, and they are proud of their science. (break)
Devotee: They're trying to catch some fish.
Paramahaṁsa: What are they doing?
Devotee: They're fishing.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Devotee: Crabs. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...fisherman. They keep this side open and this side covered. Front side covered, back side open. (end)
Prabhupāda: Here, for chanting? A good hall? (break)
Siddha-svarūpa: This is the buildings where all the... (break) They don't have any crocodiles here.
Paramahaṁsa: Is that a shark? That big fish... See that big fish, Prabhupāda? That big one on the wall? He is hanging?
Prabhupāda: Oh, he is dead?
Paramahaṁsa: Yes, dead fish. That's a shark.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...they're kept for sale?
Siddha-svarūpa: Well, no. It's a very strange thing. They just show everybody. They capture them and show everybody what they look like. The public pays 25 cents to go see what it looks like. (break)
Prabhupāda: For aircraft killing?
Siddha-svarūpa: Maybe. I don't think it's that bad in... (break)
Bali-mardana: It's a war memorial.
Prabhupāda: Oh. American or enemy's captured?
Bali-mardana: It looks like American artillery.
Prabhupāda: We are not doing business? We are doing the best business. You are working hard day and night, and without working, we are living comfortably. They cannot dream of. (break) ...is their envy, that "These people, without doing anything they are living so comfortably. And we are working so hard day and night." (break) Yes, this is envious. (break) He is searching some fish? (break)
Jayatīrtha: Clams.
Prabhupāda: So you fish, catch fish. The houses will be cheaper. Now, in this crisis, the house, cost of the big, big house, is cheaper. So you want a big house. You can... Catch fish in the troubled water.
Brahmānanda: Oh, yes. (break) ...Bhavānanda Mahārāja, he did not give a very good report about New York, that the devotees there are not very enthusiastic. He says he was there one day, they collected... The temple collected only $125, which is ridiculous.
Prabhupāda: So Bhavānanda has given report to the GBC. Now you do the needful.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he has said that. (break) ...from these waves how these birds catches...
Rādhā-vallabha: Fish.
Prabhupāda: Fish. You cannot fish, but they know how to fish. They can see and immediately catch, while in the water. (break)
Jayatīrtha: ...given them the facility that they need for survival.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the... Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. They do not know industry. (laughs) So they have to catch their eatables from the nature.
Prabhupāda: Well, laws come... Wherefrom the laws come? It comes from Kṛṣṇa. Janmādyasya yataḥ. Everything, whatever you see, it has come from God. Otherwise where you get the idea? That is the definition in the Vedānta. Whatever you have experienced, that is coming from God, original idea from God. Janmādyasya yataḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā the same thing is said, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Whatever you see, you perceive, you experience, the original is from Kṛṣṇa. (pause) So we shall go? (break) ...them directly that "You are animal." And let him go to the court and we shall prove that he is animal. (break) ...them he is in bodily concept of life, charge him that "You are animal. If you think it is defamation, let us go to the court." (break) ...these isms, nationalism, Communism, socialism, this ism, these are all animalism, nothing but animalism. (break) ...big fish within the water, they are also eating the small fish, and these persons are engaged, the same business.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like a big fish, bigger fish.
Prabhupāda: Big fish is expert. He can go within the water and eat. He has to make some tackle. He is less than fish. (laughter)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: After catching, he eats it.
Prabhupāda: No, the fish immediately. He has to cook, he has to..., another thing. That means it is not his food. Artificially, he is eating.
Prabhupāda: ...philosophy is the ultimate, Vedānta. Vedānta philosophy. And Bhāgavata is the commentary on the Vedānta philosophy. (break) ...Darwin's theory. Wherefrom he begins?
Jayatīrtha: He begins in the ocean. He says that some fish-type animal climbed out of the ocean and began to breathe the air.
Prabhupāda: Then wherefrom the ocean came?
Devotee: He doesn't say.
Śrī Govinda: In the beginning on the planet there was great turbulence and the oceans were stirring, and then there was some lightning charge.
Prabhupāda: Wherefrom the lightning came? And wherefrom the ocean came? Where his philosophy is? It is a speculation.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, can I change the topic? Last, day before yesterday, morning, Prabhupāda said that plants are more highly developed than the fish or the aquatics. But someone may ask what about the dolphins and the seals. They are regarded as very intelligent and highly developed.
Prabhupāda: Every living entity has a particular type of intelligence which is greater than the other.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, in the evolutionary cycle. Talking about the...
Prabhupāda: No, evolutionary, cycle, the body may change, but every living entity has got a special advantage upon the others.
Prabhupāda: That is prince. They are not cheap, loitering street. Every father of the prince made some bet. Just like Arjuna got Draupadī. How difficult it was! There was a fish on the ceiling, and you cannot see in this way. You have to see. There is a water pot, and you have to pierce the eyes of the fish. Then you will get this prince. So many failure. It is not so easy job, see the eyes from the shadow, and in this way you have to pierce. It is not so easy job.
Prabhupāda: If you are business-minded, you can do that. Do business and give the result to Kṛṣṇa. (break)
Brahmānanda: ...planting a tree. And here are the animals. The tiger and the lizard, fish.
Prabhupāda: So what is the meaning?
Bahulāśva: This is zoology. They study all the animals.
Prabhupāda: Not himself?
Bahulāśva: Well, they think they get an idea of man by studying the animals.
Dharmādhyakṣa: They empty all their waste directly into the lake. All the fish are dying.
Prabhupāda: Here some fishy smell.
Prabhupāda: But you cannot live in the water. Why there is life?
Paramahaṁsa: Well, yes. That is fish.
Prabhupāda: What is this nonsense, "empirical"? There are millions of living entities within the water, but you cannot live even for an half an hour.
Ṛṣi-kumāra: You have to possess some food and some shelter.
Prabhupāda: No, no. The food is supplied. Who is supplying food? If there is a hole in your room and so many thousands of ants are coming out, who is supplying food? Are you supplying that "Here is a hole. There are ants. They must be given some food"? Of course, that is your duty according to Vedic civilization. But who is doing that? But he is quite healthy. There are so many fishes in the water, many millions. Who is giving food them? There are many elephants in African jungles. They eat at a time forty kilos. So who is supplying food? This is not the problem. If the bird, beast, animals, fishes, aquatics and cats, dogs, everyone, can get food, what you have done that you will not get your food? You are human being. This is the right conclusion, that "If food is supplied to the elephants and to the ant by some superior arrangement, what I have done that I will not get my food?" Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovidaḥ. Find out this verse. It is not in Bhagavad-gītā. In Bhāgavata.
Prabhupāda: "Cheerful attitude." If cows know. They have got intelligence that "We will be killed." Therefore they are not supplying sufficient milk. They cannot, just like if your mind is full of anxiety, you cannot work fully. So because they are denied this cheerfulness, you are getting less milk. If you keep them cheerful, they will give more milk. This is nature's economic development. Artificially you cannot increase the production of milk. But according to the instruction of scripture, if you keep them cheerful without any fear, they will deliver double milk. So therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is recommended that cows should be protected in the human society. If you want to eat meat, you can kill insignificant, small animal, but don't kill cows. There are other animals-hogs, pigs, goats, lambs or birds, so many, fish—if you are at all interested in meat-eating; but don't kill cow.
Prabhupāda: That is Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa always. That's all. All of us, we are keeping these beads. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee (4): Prabhupāda, what can you say to someone who says, "Lord Jesus fed thousands of people fish"? What can you tell them?
Prabhupāda: If there is nothing available, what can be done? But when you have got such orange, such nice fruits, and rice and dahl and milk, why should you eat fish? After all, you have to eat something. If such nice foods are not available, you can eat fish. But when very nice foods are available, why should you? In other place Christ said that "These vegetables should be your meat," like that?
Satsvarūpa: In Genesis, the very beginning of the Old Testament. "The plants shall be your meat."
Prabhupāda: They, śūdras are there. Give him his eating, and some hand, pocket expense, hand expense, regular. If one can eat, then he has no demand. So the laborer has to be given to eat sumptuously. "Eat and work, take some pocket..." They will be (indistinct). Not that you call professional laborer and you have to pay twenty-five dollars per hour. That is nuisance. They'll drink. That's all. And not that everyone should have nice house. Why? What is the use? Go in the village, live simple, produce food. That's all. Eat. Why this electricity and three-hundred story building and...? And then you don't produce anything, eat fish. "And let me eat..." Artificial. It is very easy to take the animals in the city and slaughter. A little vegetable and milk, they are satisfied.
Prabhupāda: Big fish? (laughter)
Ambarīṣa: That's a catfish.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Ambarīṣa: A catfish.
Prabhupāda: Cat?
Brahmānanda: A very low-class fish. It eats the stool of the other fish.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Black? It is black?
Mādhavānanda: Yes. Black. Yes.
Prabhupāda: We call magur mach. One who cannot digest anything, he is recommended to eat this fish, magur mach. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. One living entity is the life of another living entity. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā (BG 4.6). They do not come under the control of this mahāmāyā. They have got their own spiritual potency. Āhlādinī-śakti. Ātmanaṁ sṛjāmy aham. Ātmanam: Myself, I advent." How it can be like ordinary man? We are... karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). We get body. But He says....
Dr. Patel: And it is by His own free will.
Prabhupāda: Yes, as He likes. He likes to appear as fish, that's all. Not that... Ordinary fish, it is forced to take the body of a fish.
Dr. Patel: We are controlled by māyā and its actions...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They are collecting fish?
Cyavana: These little clams they eat. Inside the shell there's a slug they eat, meat. (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...translated now Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Will you also maybe translate Caitanya-bhāgavata? (break) ...by, Lord Caitanya's fame will spread all over the world.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: As time goes by, Lord Caitanya's fame will spread all over the world.
Prabhupāda: Hawaii Island is better than this island. Huh? Is it not?
Harikeśa: It never becomes cold there. It never becomes cold.
Prabhupāda: No.
Prabhupāda: The Africans are all thieves.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Here there is not as much stealing as in Nairobi. (break) I think they have had to amputate afterwards, mangled by the shore. It happens frequently. On some of the beaches here they've put up signs that "There are many sharks in the water. It is dangerous to bathe here." Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā, "Amongst fish, I am the shark." (Prabhupāda chuckles) He shaved off his beard yesterday, this young boy. He shaved off. He had beard. He shaved off.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Further progress.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jaya. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...900,000 forms of life in the water. How many they have seen? They are giving pictures. (break) Calcium carbonate, oil wintergreen, and soap powder, powder hard soap, and I will make toothpaste.
Harikeśa: What is this soap powder?
Prabhupāda: It is called powdered hard soap.
Prabhupāda: The fishes are swimming always, twenty-four hours, they are swimming. So they must be well situated than yourself because...
Indian man: They are swimming.
Prabhupāda: Man cannot swim twenty-four hours, but they are swimming twenty-four hours.
Indian man: Yes. (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...holiday. Big beach day. Bhoga-tyāga.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Prabhupāda: (break)...very broad. (break) ...ask him about swimming, why they cannot swim all through like the fish. They are defeated.
Indian man: They can't swim like the fish.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are defeated.
Indian man: They have to put the skins on, I mean the rubber.
Prabhupāda: That I am pointing out, that they are less efficient than the fish. Even a small fish, you will find, he is enjoying, but he cannot. So why they are proud of becoming more intelligent than the fishes? Where is that intelligence?
Indian man: Uh huh. Well, I thought it was a good sport, you know, to swim.
Prabhupāda: No, no. It may be good sport, but you cannot enjoy it. After some time you have to give it up. The fish does not. Therefore fish is more intelligent than this man.
Indian man: On a rainy day is it possible to go swimming? On a rainy day... Some people say you mustn't go near water on a rainy day.
Prabhupāda: No, no, I am not speaking in detail. But by practical experience we can see that these men are not as efficient as the small fish. That is my point. They have advanced in civilization, so many scientists' brain, but they are not enough intelligent more than the fish. That is my point. Am I right or wrong?
Devotee (4): Right. Jaya.
Prabhupāda: And the fishes are swimming always. So who is more intelligent, the fish or the man?
Indian man: Well, summertime I go swimming always, you know.
Prabhupāda: Don't speak about yourself. I am speaking generally. You may be very expert, but how long you will swim? How long you can swim?
Indian man: Five minutes. Ten minutes.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Finished your business. But the fishes are swimming twenty-four hours. If we ask all these young men that "Who is expert? The fish or you are expert?" What will be the answer?
Devotee (3): They'll say he is. He will say he is.
Indian man: The fish is. The swimmer will say the fishes are expert.
Prabhupāda: If he says that he is expert more than the fish, then he's a madman. So? Why he cannot become more expert than the fish?
Indian man: Because he's not meant to swim all the...
Prabhupāda: Then in which way he should be expert? He must show his expertness in a different way which the fish cannot.
Prabhupāda: Mind is working of the fish. He knows where is his enemy, where to go. They have got better mind. They can understand from two miles that some enemy is coming. They take care.
Devotee (4): Fish.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The mind is so strong. Every fish in the water, although they are expert, they are always in danger. They are always afraid of being eaten by bigger fish. Nūnaṁ mahatāṁ tatra. The world is that the stronger is exploiting the weaker. Nūnaṁ mahatāṁ tatra jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. Still, they are expert.
Prabhupāda: They say Adam and Eve.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But they say first that the plants and the fish and the trees and the birds…
Prabhupāda: Then Adam, Eve.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Then, afterwards, that after creating so many things, the plants and the trees, God was still lonely.
Prabhupāda: Brahmā … Brahmā, when he was created, he was in darkness. He could not see anything. "What to do? What … ? Why I am?" Then he tapasya, meditation. Then he was given intelligence. Then, gradually, everything…
Harikeśa: It seems that the Christians' idea of God is our idea of Brahmā. Their God is like Brahmā. He's just a creator.
Prabhupāda: What is their idea? I do not know.
Prabhupāda: Because he has got that doctorate title, so he thinks that he has conquered all over the world. Sapari jala-matrena phora-phoraya. (?) You'll find some fish, a small-little water: (makes sound) "phrr, phrr, phrr, phrr, phrr, phrr."
Brahmānanda: Making big noise.
Prabhupāda: And a big fish, they'll remain in the middle, whale fish. And a small fish, (makes noise) "phrr, phrr, phrr, phrr, phrr." Sapari phora phoraya. So he is a small fish. He is thinking that he knows everything. What does he know about these five vargas? Does he know anything? Ka-varga, ca-varga, ṭa-varga. So ṭa-varga means ṭa, ṭha, ḍa, ḍha, ṇa. So the ṇa is there. So it can be replaced by ṭa.
Brahmānanda: They came by the chanting.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Some fish? No.
Brahmānanda: In the Old Testament, God was speaking to Moses. So Moses wanted to see God. He was on a mountain. And he turned around, but then God became a burning bush.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That was supposed to be the back of God. The burning bush was the back of God.
Prabhupāda: Burning bush?
Brahmānanda: A bush that was on fire.
Prabhupāda: Fishing. Yes, all old men, they are sitting hours and hours for capturing one fish. (laughter) Just see their civilization.
Dr. Patel: Because they are body conscious.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, we see that how they have invented various ways of wasting time, which is so valuable. That is our view.
Indian: To them time is nothing because time is eternity after all.
Prabhupāda: Time is eternity, but your formation is not eternity. Your formation is temporary. Time is eternity. (aside:) Thank you. No. Time is eternity, that's a fact, but your formation... Asann api klesada asa deha. It is temporary. That's all right. You know, I know, everyone. But it will simply give you pains, although it is asat. That you do not know.
Prabhupāda: ...sun globe. You explain to them.
Harikeśa: We can see there's life in the air, there are fishes in the water and birds in the air. And in the earth there are so many worms and crabs and things like that. We see life in these forms but why is it not true that we can see life in fire? We can't see life in fire because we haven't the experience. But because there's life in...
Akṣayānanda: If you don't have the experience, it doesn't mean there's no life.
Harikeśa: Because there's life...
Prabhupāda: Hm? Hm?
Akṣayānanda: Because we have not experienced it doesn't mean that there's no life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That I have already explained. That, you'll see in big, big factories, there is fire. Flame is coming. By seeing the flame, if you think there is no life, is that not nonsense?
Harikeśa: Oh, you gave the example last night of...
Prabhupāda: So many example. You go to the Tata iron factory, from distance you'll see so many fire flames. Does it mean there is no life? That is nonsense.
Harikeśa: And earth, earthy bodies.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is God's creation. Take, take out one fish, within five minutes, he'll die. And you put yourself in the water, within five minutes you will die. But you are living entity, he is also living entity. His external body is different, your external body is different.
Akṣayānanda: I remember once you said that we may not live in the water but that doesn't mean there's no such thing as a fish.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man: Last time you gave the example of the curd and the milk. That was very good example.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why the..., not dhanī-nārāyaṇa? Or the dog Nārāyaṇa or the goat Nārāyaṇa? Goat Nārāyaṇa cut his throat; fish Nārāyaṇa cut his throat...
Dr. Patel: Ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu, sir.
Prabhupāda: These rascals are going on. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "I am not there, nāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ," to teach these rascals.
| Page Title: | Fish (Conversations 1967 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Rishab, Mayapur |
| Created: | 08 of Jun, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=117, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 117 |