So this is evolution. This evolution theory... It is not theory; it is fact, stated in the Vedic literature, Padma Purāṇa, how we have passed through so many bodies, and ultimately we have got this civilized, human form of body. We have to pass through 900,000 forms of aquatic bodies within the water. Then, gradually, we come to the form of trees and plants. There are 2,000,000 varieties. Then we get the bodies of the insect. There are 900,000 forms of body. Then we enter into the species of birds, 1,000,000 forms of body. Then, after bird's body, there are 3,000,000 different varieties of beast body. Then, after this period, we become human body, but there are 400,000 species of human body. And thus we get this nice human form of body with good brain and good consciousness. So it should be utilized properly. That... By the laws of nature, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). This is the law of nature. Gradually we develop different types of body and different types of consciousness. So when we come finally to God consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is the perfection of life.
Finally (Lectures)
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
Madhudviṣa: Thirteen. "As the embodied soul continually passes in this body from boyhood to youth and then to old age, similarly the soul also passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change." Purport: "Since every living entity is an individual soul, each is changing his body at every moment, manifesting sometimes as a child, sometimes as a youth, and sometimes as an old man, although the same spirit soul is there and does not undergo any change. The individual soul finally changes the body itself in transmigrating from one to another. And since it is sure to have another body in the next birth, either material or spiritual, there was no cause for lamentation by Arjuna on account of death, either over Bhīṣma or over Droṇa, for whom he was so concerned."
Prabhupāda: Now, this simple fact, as it is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, that dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13), the change of body is taking place every moment.
Devotee: "A person born in a particular righteous, aristocratic or sacred family becomes conscious of his favorable condition for executing yoga practice. With determination, therefore, he begins his unfinished task, and thus he completely cleanses himself of all material contaminations. When he is finally free of all contaminations, he attains the supreme perfection, Kṛṣṇa consciousness."
Prabhupāda: It is, try to understand, that, the Supreme Lord, God is pure. And His kingdom is also pure. And anyone who wants to enter there, he must be pure. That is very natural. That if you want to enter into some particular society, you must qualify yourself. Qualification is to go back to home, back to Godhead, the qualification is that you should not be materially contaminated. And what is that material contamination? The material contamination is sense gratification. Unrestricted sense gratification. That is material contamination. So you have to make yourself free from material contamination. Then you become eligible to enter into the kingdom of God.
Prabhupāda: If there is any question, you can put.
Guest: Swami? You say that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a system of purifying the senses. Does that mean that the senses become unlimited? Do the senses become unlimited when they're finally purified?
Prabhupāda: There is no question of unlimited, but at least it becomes purified. First of all purify. Then the limit of senses will be also extended. Just like if your eye is defective. So you cannot see; you require the help of glass. But if the disease of your eye is cured, oh, you can see without glass. But that does not mean that you can see for hundred miles. But at least you can see perfectly. You don't require the help of glass. Similarly, so long your senses are impure, you are completely in ignorance, you do not know what you are, what is this world, what is God—simply in darkness. Just like dull stone. Ignorance means dull stone. So if your senses are purified, at least you can know who is God, what you are, what is this world, what is your relationship.
Sometimes it is found that the child has grown now to become a boy. But he has not become suddenly a boy. The body has changed. Body has changed every minute. But all of a sudden or at a certain moment we see that the body has changed. So this is real knowledge, that "I am not this body. I am changing my body, and when I shall finally change this body I will get another body." This is my position. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13).
So Kṛṣṇa says, etad yo vetti taṁ prāhuḥ kṣetra-jñaḥ iti tad-vidaḥ. If one understands that he is not this body, he is different from this body... From practical example and practical experience one can understand it. Especially human being can understand it. And if the human being neglect this understanding, then he remains animal—sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). That is the injunction of the śāstra.
Prabhupāda: we have already sung. Āra nā kariha mane āśā. Guru-mukha-padma **. What is that? Read.
Bhadra-vardhana: Āra nā kariha mane āśā **.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Mean do not think otherwise. Whatever guru has said accept it, finally. Āra nā kariha mane āśā **. Don't divert from this. This is the instruction. How you can divert from the instruction of guru?
Woman Devotee: So just read it, not comment.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You read it or not read it, but you have to realize. Suppose one is illiterate. It cannot read. But he can follow.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
Pradyumna: Purport: "Religion includes four primary subjects, namely pious activities, economic development, satisfaction of the senses and, finally, liberation from material bondage." (SB 1.1.2)
Prabhupāda: So the ultimate aim is liberation from this conditional life, bondage. We are conditioned in every way, we can experience. As soon as we are embodied with a material body, immediately we are conditioned. Just like as soon as we enter in some state... Just like we have come from India. I have come from India in your state. So I am immediately conditioned by the immigration department.
So this is the material world, system. As soon as you enter a particular type of body you are conditioned. Just like while walking in the St. James Park the ducks and the swans, when they saw that we are coming near, they immediately dropped into the water. Because the duck is thinking that he's safe in the water. And if somebody snatches me to put me down in the water, then I shall protest. He's also a living entity, I am also a living entity. I am afraid of being put into the water, and he is seeking shelter into the water. Water is the same.
Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung: "Keśava, my dear Lord Kṛṣṇa, Your creation is so full of varieties." That's a fact. But all these conditions are not very liking to us. We are trying to be liberated from all conditions. Therefore liberation is the ultimate goal. As it is here stated, "Religion includes four primary subjects, namely, pious activities, economic development, satisfaction of the senses and, finally, liberation from material bondage."
So the ultimate goal being liberation, we have to adjust things, targeting to that point. That is real human civilization. The Vedic civilization is based on this view, that all the conditioned souls, they have... Why they have become conditioned? The reason is they revolted against Kṛṣṇa. They wanted to imitate Kṛṣṇa. That is the mentality everywhere. You know, everyone says, "Oh, I don't care for God. I don't care for anything. I am at liberty to do anything." Just the hippies, they say, "We don't care for anything, state laws or convention or police or anything." The idea is that everyone is wanting liberation, "be high." Because that is our constitutional position.
Prabhupāda: Evolution means changing of different bodies. The spirit soul is changing from one body to another, and finally he's coming in the human form of body. This is a chance to know the actual position. And if he takes this chance, he can go back home to, back to Godhead. Otherwise, he is again put into the cycle of birth and death in different species of life.
Guest: From what I've heard, I've heard it explained that the body is made up of many, many different living entities.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest: Our soul is just like the controlling soul. Can you explain that?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
So Arjuna, he... Of course, sentiment... Just like theoretically we understand, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Still, when my son dies I become affected. That is temporary. That is temporary. But Arjuna, after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa gave him the liberty that "Now I have spoken to you everything. Now whatever you..." (break) ...under certain circumstances. But if your conviction is that "I shall act according to the order of God," that is final. That is final. He did not act against the will of the Lord. That is his victory. Temporarily he might have been disturbed when his son was killed. That is a different thing. Everyone becomes. But that does not mean he stopped work. That is wanted. What was the final conclusion? He did not leave the warfield because his son Abhimanyu was killed; therefore he left—"No, I don't want to fight"? No, he did not do that. He was affected for the time being. That is natural. But finally he concluded and he said, "Yes," kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). Naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā: "My illusion is now over. I shall fight." That is right conclusion.
And from that seed developed this body. But I am... When my body was just like, as small, just like a pea, I was there. And I have become so big. I am there. So many bodily changes have taken place, but I am there." Similarly, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Similarly, when we change this body finally and take another body, so one who knows the fact or the science of birth and death, he is not disturbed. He is not disturbed. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Dhīra means intelligent, cool-headed, not rascal. So this very word is used, dhīra. Dhīra means cool-headed, not disturbed. Na muhyati: "He is not bewildered." He's just changing this body. So now the business is that before changing this body, "What kind of other body I am going to get?" That is my business. That we can get according to as I deserve. Just like as you educate yourself in your childhood, so you get a particular type of post when you are businessman or working man. If you have got sufficient education, you could get good post, good salary. And if you are a nonsense, then you have to work like ordinary man, no good post.
So there is war, reaction. So what is that war? To lessen the burden. To lessen the burden. It becomes very heavy, unbearable by the earth. And to reduce the weight there is natural... And when there is still more power required, then Kṛṣṇa comes: "Arrange for a war in the battlefield of Kurukṣetra and bring all the rascals and finish within eighteen days." Within eighteen days sixty-four crores men died. This is... But why? It is Kṛṣṇa's arrangement.
When Arjuna wanted to become nonviolent, so He gave him instruction that "There is no question of nonviolence. You are talking like an anārya, uncivilized man." Kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam. "In warfield, and you are talking of nonviolence, rascal. There is no question of nonviolence. You have to fight." So he was still arguing. Then he finally said, "My dear Arjuna, you fight or don't fight. It doesn't matter. They are not going to return. They'll be finished here. That is My arrangement." He says, nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savyasācin: "They're not going to return." It is Kṛṣṇa's arrangement.
So actually land does not belong to him; it belongs to the government. Similarly, where is the difficulty to understand that although I am cultivating this body, karma...? Taking this body as my field of activities, we are doing work. Everyone can understand it. But finally this body belongs to Kṛṣṇa, as this land belongs to the government.
Therefore Kṛṣṇa claims, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi. Just as there are in cities, two taxes: occupier tax and owner's tax... Rented house, actually the house belongs to the landlord, but the tenant also claims, "This is my house." But finally the house belongs to the landlord. So Kṛṣṇa claims, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. The same example: As a piece of land, some bighās of land, belongs to a certain person—he can claim, "This is my land"—similarly, other man can claim, "It is my land," other can claim, "My land," but all these lands belongs to the government.
He's making jokes with the gopīs. He is enjoying the company... Varieties. He's becoming the son, dependent son of Mother Yaśodā. So Kṛṣṇa is variety. Without variety, there cannot be enjoyment. So therefore variety of instruction also.
So that is given by the spiritual master. "You do this," "You do that," "You do this," "You do that," because Kṛṣṇa is not one-sided. So as confidential representative of Kṛṣṇa, we have to follow the instruction of the spiritual master. As it is given particular to me, I should execute without any personal consideration. That is the perfection of life. Because after all, this body is meant for Kṛṣṇa. The mind is meant for Kṛṣṇa. I am also Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel, so pārakyasyaiva. Everything belongs to somebody else. Finally, that somebody else is Kṛṣṇa. So if we fix up our mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa and serve Him, then our life is perfect.
So we have got opulence, fame, beauty, strength, influence, knowledge, all good qualities that God has. But God has got in full, we have got in minute quantity.
So anyway, qualitatively, we are one with God. Therefore our business is how to again unite with God qualitatively. That is the highest perfection of human life. And this chance of realization, how we can unite again with God or Kṛṣṇa, is given only in the human form of life. We are wandering in so many species of life, transmigration of the soul. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). Just we change our dress, similarly we are changing our body every moment, and finally we are changing to other body. Not only we are changing or transmigrating from one body to another, but we are transmigrating from one planet to another. These things are all explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.
The bhāva stage is manifested by eight transcendental symptoms, namely inertness, perspiration, standing of hairs on end, failing in the voice, trembling, paleness of the body, tears in the eyes and finally trance. The Nectar of Devotion, a summary study of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī's Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, explains those symptoms and vividly describes other transcendental developments, both in steady and accelerating manifestations.
Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has very critically discussed all these bhāva displays in connection with some unscrupulous neophyte's imitating the above symptoms for cheap appreciation. Not only Viśvanātha Cakravartī but also Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī treated them very critically. Sometimes all the above eight symptoms of ecstasy are imitated by the mundane devotees (prākṛta-sahajiyās), but the pseudo symptoms are at once detected when one sees the pseudodevotee addicted to so many forbidden things. Even though decorated with the signs of a devotee, a person addicted to smoking, drinking or illegitimate sex with women cannot have all the above-mentioned ecstatic symptoms.
There are two kinds of living entities: moving and not moving, sthāvara-jaṅgama. Sthāvara means standing, cannot move. And jaṅgama means moving. So jaṅgama is better than this sthāvara. And amongst the sthāvara, there are varieties. The insects, ants, reptiles, serpents, they are also jaṅgama. But one is better than the other, one is better than the other, and finally we come to this position, human being, moving, but better than all the lower animals, insects. Development, development of consciousness. But originally we are all pure living entities. We are contaminated by the modes of material nature. The more we are contaminated, our consciousness is covered. Therefore it is said, guṇair vicitrāḥ.
Vicitrāḥ means varieties. Why there are varieties? The varieties are because according to our association with the different material modes of nature, therefore there are varieties. There are 8,400,000 varieties of forms simply on account of different type of association. Bhagavad-gītā also says, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu.
The jīva-bhūta, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7), prakṛti. But artificially, we are trying to become puruṣa. Ultimately, the same spirit is going on. As puruṣa is the enjoyer, we try to become independent enjoyer of this material world and baffled one after another, one after another, one after another, baffled, and at last, finally baffled still, he wants to become the supreme puruṣa, "I am God." This is māyā. Those who are claiming to become "I am God," they're still in māyā. Because he is prakṛti by nature, but he is still trying in the, first in the karma field as karmī, working day and night hard. But the purpose is that "I shall become the enjoyer. I shall become the Supreme."
So on account of this puruṣa mentality the jīva is described here as puruṣa, puruṣam. And this puruṣa's position is prakṛteḥ param. Puruṣaṁ prakṛteḥ param. We do not belong to this material world. Prakṛteḥ param, transcendental. Because we are spirit soul, we belong to the spiritual world. Prakṛteḥ... This prakṛti is material. This prakṛti is material, but we are falsely identifying ourself as something made of this matter.
By regular reading of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, then our this material contamination becomes vanquished. Naṣṭa-prāyeṣu. Naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā (SB 1.2.18). As soon as it begins to diminish, then it will diminish finally, and then you will be situated in your pure, original constitutional position, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Bhakti-yogataḥ. Evaṁ prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ (SB 1.2.20). By cleansing the heart we become prasanna-manasaḥ, very jubilant. Bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ. Therefore this bhāgavata-dharma should be practiced from the very beginning of life, and it should be studied. We have got so many books. One can read... Whatever already we have got, books, one can read for fifty years continually and get new enlightenment one after another.
So bhāgavata means the complete knowledge. Bhāgavata, from bhagavān it is called bhāgavata. From bhagavat-śabda it is called bhāgavata. So in the association of bhāgavata, devotees, if we read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam... Sajātīya snigdhasya.
So, actually Arjuna was not willing to fight, because he is a Vaiṣṇava. He does not want to kill, even if he is, even if he was put into so many difficulties. That was his attitude. So his decision was that he would not fight, but for the sake of Kṛṣṇa, when he understood that Kṛṣṇa wants this fight... Kṛṣṇa said finally, nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savya-sācin. "Don't think that these people who have come here will go back home. They will be killed here. That is my plan. You simply become an instrument, so that you may take the credit. I shall be happy. But they are already finished. This is my plan." So when he understood that Kṛṣṇa wants me to fight, took the credit of becoming victorious. So he doesn't care for credit, but he understood that this is my duty, to please Kṛṣṇa. Then when Kṛṣṇa asked him, "What is your decision?" He said, "Yes, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73), I shall fight," and he fought. This is called kṛta-sauhṛdārthā. For Kṛṣṇa's sake they can do anything.
Liberation means, we have several times discussed, hitvā anyathā-rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). Our svarūpa means original, constitutional position is jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109), eternally servant of Kṛṣṇa. So as soon as we place ourselves in our original place, then you are liberated immediately. If we determine, decide finally, that we shall now continuously vehemently (?) fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, very simple thing.
Kṛṣṇa consciousness is described by Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. That's all. Always think of Me, man-manāḥ, and bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, be ready always to serve Me. Bhakta means, where there is bhakti and Bhagavān. Then bhakta. If there is no Bhagavān, and there is no activities to serve Bhagavān, there is no bhakta also. They are demons. So bhakta means there must be Bhagavān. Sevya, sevaka, and sevā. Sevya sevaka sevā, three things. Sevya means who is to be served, the master, sevya. And sevaka means the servant. If there is master and servant then there is sevā. This sevā is called bhakti.
Prabhupāda: They're appreciating. You see?
Revatīnandana: There's a story I read. Sometimes the... In South America there's a small wild cat called ocelot. And they are like tigers but very small. They eat monkeys. They eat monkeys in the tree. They're cats, about twice as big as a house cat, called ocelots. And sometimes these ocelots, they'll lay on the branch of a tree like they're dead. They don't move. They don't even blink their eyes. And all the monkeys come and they gather around to see the dead ocelot. And finally the monkeys get very crazy and they go, one of them, and pull the tail of the ocelot, and then it's all over. That's how they kill the monkeys.
Prabhupāda: Therefore monkeys are considered very fools.
Haṁsadūta: Foolish.
Prabhupāda: Foolish, yes.
Festival Lectures
That's our natural position. If something is wrong with my hand and I want to be cured, I don't grab onto some foodstuffs or some medicine, some herbs, and squeeze it with the hand and think that this hand is going to be cured. I take the medicine or the food through my mouth, and then it circulates through the digestive system and through the veins and finally comes to the hand and can work its cure. So the hand, unless it's serving its source, then it's useless. The servant must serve its master or the part must serve the whole. And our relationship with God is the same. Just like the hand is made out of bile, blood and air, flesh and bone, as all the body is. So similarly we're made out of spirit. Qualitatively the same as Kṛṣṇa, but quantitatively many millions of times less. Qualitatively the same, quantitatively different. Fragmental portion. So if we fragmental portions, separated parts and parcels, can serve the source or the whole, then we can be cured of this material disease which is rampant nowadays. And this is possible only by mercy.
The people are searching after what is God, and God is crawling in his yard. So therefore I do not find anyone more than Nanda Mahārāja, so I offer my respects to Nanda Mahārāja."
So this is the feeling of a devotee. Generally, those who are followers of speculative process, or jñāna-mārga, they finally reach to understand that he is one with the Supreme Absolute Truth. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. But the devotional service is so nice that a devotee is not satisfied that "I am one with the Supreme," but by his service he becomes greater than the Supreme. Just like Nanda Mahārāja. He is not anxious to become one with God, but he underwent so great penances that he became the father of God. That is possible. A devotee is so great that he can pray the Supreme Lord as his son. Of course, it is a very subtle science for understanding of spiritual knowledge. So today Nanda-mahotsava is celebrated because the father of Kṛṣṇa... Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said.
It is Krishna Society. Everyone who will join this Krishna Society movement, he is more than a brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa, what is brāhmaṇa? Brāhmaṇa is also material. A devotee is more than brāhmaṇa. The brahminical culture is included already. Brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ: "Brāhmaṇa means one who knows the Absolute Truth, Brahman." He is brāhmaṇa. But that is not very fixed up. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). Brahman is impersonal effulgence, and then further progress, realization of the localized aspect, Paramātmā, Antaryāmī, and finally, understanding the Supreme Person, Kṛṣṇa, Supreme Person, that is the final understanding.
So people cannot understand that how the Supreme, the origin of everything, can be a person. That is their difficulty. Because they are thinking, "A person, God? How it is possible. God is great, and He is the creator of everything. How a person can do that?" Yes. That is the Vedic version.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
He does not become again entangled in these material varieties of life. In material world there is also varieties, but that is false. This morning we were discussing this point, mirage. In the mirage there is a show of false water, and the animal runs after it. But there is no water, and finally he becomes more thirsty, and it is desert; he falls down and dies. So the material world means we are running after false family. But don't think that there is no real family life. There is real family. That is Kṛṣṇa's real family, eternal family, blissful family. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to train up people to be detached from this false family and to enter into the real family. That is the point. Not that if I give up this false family I will become zero. No. There is no such disappointment. The other philosophers, they simply... Just like Buddha philosophy. Their philosophy is "Finish this," nirvāṇa. But if people are not interested to finish all this, they want it, then what is the positive gain? So generally people are attached to these Buddhist and Māyāvādī philosophies; therefore they feel hopelessness. On account of future hopelessness, they become more attached to this false family. But our philosophy is not like that. Our philosophy is that you become detached to this false family and enter into the real family.
Prabhupāda: They are harassing us in so many ways. Only in Bombay.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means if we become successful finally, it will be a tremendous success, I think.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Something very big will happen there.
Brahmānanda: They've concluded that the opposition is not from the central government but from the local. Because the projects are going on without being hampered in other places in India. It is only in Bombay that we are getting this difficulty.
Prabhupāda: In central government that Indira Gandhi is now...
Brahmānanda: Her position is now jeopardized.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really?
Prabhupāda: She is convicted. That election was not properly.
Initiation Lectures
Prabhupāda: Yes. While you are chanting we should hear also. That is meditation. Hare Kṛṣṇa, these two words, Hare Kṛṣṇa, you'll hear also. If you hear, then your mind and your tongue both captivated. That is perfect. Therefore meditation, the first-class yoga, hearing and chanting. Then?
Madhudviṣa: Then finally number ten: "Attachment to material things while engaged in the practice of chanting."
Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole process is that we are going to transfer our love from matter to God. So we should try to minimize. It will be automatically. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42). If you actually develop love of Godhead, then naturally you forget to love all these material nonsense. That is sequence. But you should try also. You should... This will happen. Just like if we eat, then gradually you minimize your hankering after eating. When you are full, then you say, "I don't want any more. Yes, I am..." Similarly... (break) ...so nice that with the progress of Kṛṣṇa consciousness you forget the so-called material nonsense enjoyment.
General Lectures
Girl: "There must be activities in liberation. Sanātana clearly asks, 'You have saved me from the entanglement of material existence. Now after liberation what is my duty? Kindly explain it to me.' Sanātana further inquired, 'Who am I? Why are the threefold miseries always giving me trouble? And finally, tell me how I will be relieved from this material entanglement.' "
Prabhupāda: Now here is another question, that when... Our inquiries should be how to get out of the threefold miseries. In the conditioned state... Just like an animal. Animal is always suffering. That is a fact. Everyone knows. In the lower grade of life than human being, every animal is always under very strict condition. Why? What is the difference between civilization and not civilization? The difference is that their life is most conditional life. In the civilized life there is a pinch of liberation. So what is that statement? Yes. Threefold miseries. Threefold miseries are there in every living condition, but when a man is enhanced or advanced in knowledge he can understand that "I am under always threefold miseries."
Prabhupāda: And thus we get this nice human form body with good brain and good consciousness. So it should be utilized properly. By the laws of nature... Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). This is the law of nature. Gradually we develop different types of body and different types of consciousness. So when we come finally to God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is the perfection of life.
So we are living in this planet, but in other planets also there are different forms of life. So there is one planet... There are many millions of planet. Specifically, there is one planet within this universe that is called Siddha-loka. There is other planet also, heavenly planet, Brahmaloka planet, and in different planets there are different species of life, different standard of comforts, but in the higher planetary system, the standard of comfort is more and more, thousand times more, thousand times more, in this way. Just like in this planet we have got different standard of life. In your Western countries your standard of life is.
Philosophy Discussions
Prabhupāda: The whole plan is that everyone must come back. But he is obstinate, he is obstinate. Just like a bad boy, father says, "Come on," he's not. He's crying, "No, I'll not go." But the father's only business is to drag him. Therefore the final, after speaking all the proposals in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says finally, "I am giving you final, very confidential instructions," sarva guhyatamam. "You give up all this rascaldom, arguing with Me. Just surrender unto Me." Arjuna was arguing. "Just surrender unto Me. That is your business. If you think you will be sinful by killing your... I will give you protection." Therefore, before citing this verse He says, "I am speaking to you most confidentially." That means unless one is very sincere to God, he does not heed the final confidential instruction. "All right, you go on with your own work." But to show Arjuna special favor, He says that "I am talking to you now the most confidential instruction. I have talked to you about karma, jñāna, yoga, and so many things, but the most confidential thing is this: that you fully surrender to Me. I will give you all protection."
Śyāmasundara: So far the social ethics are concerned, he says that these begin with the family, then they go to the society or community, and then finally the state. He says that the family is the single entity and is the thesis. The individual finds his real nature only in the presence of others.
Prabhupāda: What about the family of the animals? They have got family. What does he say? The tiger has got family—he has got his wife, cats.
Śyāmasundara: When man finds himself in the presence of his family members he is able to understand himself by relating with others. So...
Prabhupāda: Relations with others, just like you are a family man, you don't encroach upon other families, this is society law. So the animals, they have got their family. Family, what do you mean by family, husband, wife, also two children, that is family. So the animals, they have got. So why you encroach upon the animal family? What is his answer?
Śyāmasundara: Families, when they relate together in communities, are related by certain laws or rights, that one voluntarily abstains from killing and stealing from other families so that no one will do the same to him.
Prabhupāda: That we accept. That we accept, that we have to adjust things according to circumstances. That is acceptable. But finally, if God does not approve of it, it does not happen. Pratividhi. Pratividhi, counteraction. Tavat tanu-bhrtāṁ tvad-upekṣitānām. Pratividhi. We make counteractivities for adjusting things, but unless it is approved by the Supreme Lord, that adjustment also will not be very much helpful. Bālasya neha pitarau nṛsiṁha. Just like a small child, the nature's way is the parent has got affection to take care. At that time, if the parents do not take care, the child cannot live. But the parents' taking care is not all. If the child is condemned by the Supreme Lord, in spite of the parents taking care, it will not be happy, or it will not exist. Parents' care is natural. Generally it so happens by the parents' care the child is happy, but in spite of parents' care the child is unhappy, then you have to go to the Lord. Is it not? Just like when a man is diseased, the counteraction is physician, medicine. Generally it is expected by attendance of good physician or using good medicine, diet, the patient becomes cured. But it is also seen that in spite of all careful attention, scientific medicine, he dies. Then what is that?
Hayagrīva: At first Darwin was a Christian, but his faith in the existence of a personal God dwindled, and he finally wrote, "The whole subject"—that is the subject of religion, or God—"is beyond the scope of man's intellect. The mystery of the beginning of things is insoluble by us, and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic. I have steadily endeavored to keep my mind free, so as to give up any hypothesis, however much beloved, as soon as facts are shown to be opposed to it." So he didn't argue against Plato or Descartes or Kant or any other philosopher, but he simply presented what evidence he had amassed during a five..., only a five-year voyage, on a British freighter, oh, from 1831 to 1836. But what is considered important is that his book, The Origin of Species, marks what they call the emancipation of science from philosophy.
Prabhupāda: What is that, emancipation?
Hayagrīva: That is to say he simply presented what material he found—that is the fossils. He investigated certain life forms on these island during this trip and theorized about evolution.
Prabhupāda: That is philosophic; that is not scientific. He found something and he based his thesis on that. He cannot find out all the bodies, because there are, at the end, some section, some sect they burn the body. So how he can get information of their body, burned? So his theory is not at all scientific. It is always defective.
Prabhupāda: So without God, how it can be religion? Religion means, I have already explained, the order of God.
Hayagrīva: Finally on immortality and miracles, he says that there is no evidence for the immortality of the soul and none against it, but...
Prabhupāda: How he can be convinced? There are so many evidences. That is the misfortune of the human society. A learned person like Mill, he cannot understand, what to speak of the others. This is simple truth. Any child can understand but due to misfortune they cannot understand.
Hayagrīva: And finally he says, "The whole domain of the supernatural, the whole domain of the supernatural, of religion is removed from the region of belief into that of simple hope."
Prabhupāda: Yes, the Archbishop of Canterbury.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The two of them have been trying to work together to come out with a statement which will satisfy both Churches according to the scriptures. So Time magazine reports that after one and a half years of laborious work, they have finally come out with a 2,500-word statement, but the Pope said that this should not be taken as the Church teachings but should only be used for consideration. That means that after spending so much time, and still (indistinct). He said it should not be taken as a teaching, as a scripture.
Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of giving it?
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: If people are the ultimate persons to consider, then what is the use of his giving this statement? He is not authority.
Hayagrīva: He sees the pleasure of the world as ultimately frustrating. Eternal becoming endless flux characterizes the revelation of the inner nature of will. Finally, the same thing shows itself in human endeavors and desires, which always delude us by presenting their satisfaction as the final end of will. As soon as we attain to them, they no longer appear the same. Therefore they soon grow stale or forgotten, and though not ultimately disowned, are yet always thrown aside as vanished illusions.
Prabhupāda: So this is going on. He is getting, therefore, different types of body.
Hayagrīva: He says we go..., there's a constant transition from desire to satisfaction and from satisfaction to a new desire, a rapid course of which is called happiness, and the slow course sorrow, and does not sink into that stagnation that shows itself in fearful boredom that paralyzes life. So it's this flux from desire to satisfaction that characterizes the will's activities in the phenomenal world. But for Schopenhauer, outside of all of this flux there is only..., the only solution is nirvāṇa or extinction.
Prabhupāda: No, that is not the fact. One has to study that willing and satisfaction of the willing. So behind this willing and satisfaction of willing there is the person who is willing. He does not take that person into consideration.
Hayagrīva: Concerning sex, Freud explored the realm of infantile sexuality and found a definite sexual nature in the earlier stages of childhood. He concluded that these sexual activities in childhood were normal phenomena, and finally concluded with his famous dictum, "In a normal sex life, no neurosis is possible."
Prabhupāda: That is also his foolishness, because a child can be trained up to become a brahmacārī so that he will have no inclination for sex. It depends on the child's training. The unscrupulous father and mother, they enjoy sex life before the child, and they imitate. I have seen it. I have seen it in Agra. There are two small children. In life, what do they know? The female child laid down, and the man child, just like they have seen father and mother-sex. He does not know anything, but he is imitating. So imitating, imitating, the sex life is there, it becomes prominent. Similarly, you train the children not to have any sense of sex life, he will become brahmacārī. So he has not studied. He has seen some abominable family's children. So they learn these things. Whatever you teach, they imitate. So if you keep the children aloof from this sex-life society, he will remain a brahmacārī. There is many instances.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is simply covered. The potency is there. Just like a flower in the bud stage, the potency is there to become a (indistinct) flower. So the covering by gradually coming out, coming out, finally, very beautiful rose.
Śyāmasundara: But someone would say that that bud is developing into a flower.
Prabhupāda: That is a (indistinct) in the terminology. Just like we say that we are changing bodies, they say developing bodies. So anyway, either you say developing or changing, the original body is not there. That you have to accept. The child's body, either you say it has developed into youth's body, and either you say that is (indistinct) body. I say the child's body is gone; it is another body. In both cases, the child's body is no longer existing. That you have to agree—either you call developed or it has gone.
Prabhupāda: There is Supreme Person, and we should be all obedient servant to Him. Then the society will be in order. That, that is responsibility. God gives us some duty, and if we carry that, that is our responsibility, and that makes the whole society perfect. That should... In the beginning if we reject God, so then it is chaotic. So religion means to avoid this chaotic condition, and in order, fulfilling the responsibility given by God, we make progress, and finally we live with God personally. That is our eternal right.
Hayagrīva: His final point is that..., is, "To be man means to reach toward being God, or, if you prefer, man fundamentally is the desire to be God."
Prabhupāda: So he, at last he accept there is God. (laughter) Otherwise what is the meaning of going to God? Yes, he is trying to deny God when there is God. Unless there is God, where is the question of accepting or denying? He is denying in the other way; that means there is God.
Prabhupāda: That is the proof. He gives there. Guru—the next line says who is guru: śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭam. He has heard the truth from the paramparā system, and the result of his hearing-he's firmly convinced and fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So when one can finally see that one is fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and he answers all questions on the authority of śāstra, he's guru. This is the proof of it(?). Just like we, whenever we say something, we immediately support it by quoting from Bhagavad-gītā, Bhāgavata, Vedas. This is called knowledge. And the result of knowledge-fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, firm. Nobody can deviate. That is guru. Two sides: one side is that he knows everything from authoritative source. And he, as the result, is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. These two things are the symptoms of guru.
Prabhupāda: But there... Everything is going on simply on threatening. You see there is no heart to heart cooperation(?). Therefore everyone we saw, they were morose.
Śyāmasundara: Slogans. They simply speak slogans. Propaganda.
Prabhupāda: There is no cooperation. In this way, finally the people will non-cooperate and there will be revolution. Just like Gandhi's noncooperation. That stage will come. Nobody will cooperate with them. So these are foolish theories. It has no practical value.
Śyāmasundara: So their idea about... It says that all events are seen as physical reactions aimed at satisfying economic and material needs of mankind. In other words everything that happens historically is seen as a result of economic and material needs required.
Prabhupāda: That is a fact. I have already explained. Because I want to make profit, you want to make profit, so as soon as there will be check in my profit-making or your profit-making, then we shall fight. The reason is that I want to make profit, you want to make profit, nobody is prepared to sacrifice profit. So as soon as our interests clash there is fight.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is... These things are discussed in Upaniṣads. The students asks, "What is reality?" He says that "Think over." Now came, that "Eatables are reality," because he's a small child. So he says, "No, this is not reality. You think over." In this way, this way, one after, one after another, one after another, he finally came to Brahman. So this reality differs according to knowledge. Kṛṣṇa can... The same example: a child. Two things: one lugdoo and one one-thousand-dollar note—which one he will take? He will take this lugdoo. For him this is reality. He does not know the value of this paper. But for his father, which one of them, he can immediately... So reality means according to your knowledge. So these are poor class of men; therefore they are always talking of economic production and this and that, the immediate... That's all.
Hayagrīva: So he feels that one can go through the universe assimilating everything, until one finally unifies with the impersonal Absolute.
Prabhupāda: Impersonal Absolute means the Absolute, as soon as you say Absolute, there is no distinction between impersonal and personal. Then it is no Absolute. If you have got distinction that "This is personal; this is impersonal," then that is not Absolute. Do you think it is Absolute? It is contradictory.
Hayagrīva: Well for, for him, God is simply the universal ego, nothing more, and that...
Prabhupāda: No. You say Absolute. As soon as say Absolute there is relative also. Otherwise what is the meaning Absolute?
Hayagrīva: Yes. He would say that. He would say that...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: ...there is the ego and the universal ego.
Prabhupāda: So then why he is distinguishing, discriminating between personal and impersonal? In the Absolute there is no such difference. That is defined in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, advaya. That is Absolute. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. Vadanti tat tattva vidas tattvam yaj jñānam advayam (SB 1.2.11). That is Absolute. Dvayam, dvayam means relative. That is not relative. So actually we are searching after the Absolute Truth.
Hayagrīva: And Hobbes, finally, gives the, this definition of God: "A most pure, simple, invisible spirit corporeal."
Prabhupāda: Corporeal?
Hayagrīva: Spirit corporeal.
Prabhupāda: Well why invisible?
Hayagrīva: Invisible.
Prabhupāda: Why? Invisible...
Hayagrīva: Invisible...
Prabhupāda: When Kṛṣṇa says, Kṛṣṇa came, He was visible, and Arjuna was talking with Him face to face. So why is unvisible? If He likes, that is His..., that depends on His good will. He becomes visible to a competent or perfect person. He is visible. Just like Arjuna was talking with God, not only visible, was talking face to face. He was asking question, and Kṛṣṇa was answering. So one has to become qualified like Arjuna to..., then he will see Kṛṣṇa, or God, and he will talk with Him, he will get direct instruction. There is no difficulty. So He is not visible to the imperfect person, but He is visible to the perfect person. But He is not at all invisible.
| Page Title: | Finally (Lectures) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari, Mayapur |
| Created: | 25 of Jun, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=45, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 45 |