Fatalism

Expressions researched:
"fatalism" |"fatalist" |"fatalistic" |"fatalists"

Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures

That is your instruction. That is not God's instruction. The God says that "Here is injustice, so you should fight." God says that. God never says that "I am God, Kṛṣṇa. I am your friend. You sit down idly and I shall do everything."

Lecture on SB 1.2.6 -- Mauritius, October 5, 1975:

Indian man (3): Swamiji, may I ask, just to... As my friend has just said about the teaching of... In the battlefield, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, about the verse about... Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7]. It is an oft repeated phrase or śloka which has gone deep into the subconscious mind of the Ind..., especially the Hindu people have taken it, probably because of all of the wrong interpretations. That why should we go and tire ourself or make effort? If we are in trouble, oh, just wait for the God to come down to the earth and He will help us and do what we need or defend us?

Prabhupāda: That is your instruction. That is not God's instruction.

Indian man (3): But it has been.

Prabhupāda: No.

Indian man (3): According to my...

Prabhupāda: The God says that "Here is injustice, so you should fight." God says that. God never says that "I am God, Kṛṣṇa. I am your friend. You sit down idly and I shall do everything." He never said that. He said that "You must fight." That is our duty, not that God has given us hands and legs and you sit down idly and let God do it. This is not devotion.

Indian man (3): Then you agree with me that this oft-repeated śloka has created a state of fatalism among the Hindu community?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Indian man (3): That yadā yadā hi...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Fatalism. This verse created fatalism, fatalism, a sense of hopelessness.

Prabhupāda: Hopelessness?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Pessimism. Fatalism.

Brahmānanda: It has been interpreted that this verse means that God will come and therefore we don't have to do anything.

Prabhupāda: God is always present. You carry out the order of God. God is always present. You carry out the order of the God.

Indian man (3): The verse is clear, yadā yadā hi dharmasya [Bg. 4.7].

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is being done every moment. Every moment we are forgetting our dharma and God is giving us instruction.

Philosophy Discussions

Either you call this fatalism or destiny—every man is destined—that cannot be changed. His intelligence can change only his position with reference to God.

Philosophy Discussion on Auguste Comte:

Hayagrīva: "To study in any..., to study in any other spirit would not only be immoral but also highly irrational." To study the universe for any other sake other than the betterment of humanity.

Prabhupāda: Betterment of humanity will depend on studying the cosmic nature or not? What does he say?

Hayagrīva: The purpose for studying the universe is to improve nature, is to improve man's situation in nature. To improve the lot of man.

Prabhupāda: How? How? So far we are concerned, that any living being is destined to a certain position of happiness and distress. By dint of his past activities he gets a particular type of body destined to suffer or enjoy. That cannot be changed. Either you call this fatalism or destiny—every man is destined—that cannot be changed. His intelligence can change only his position with reference to God. His present position is he is forgetful of God and his relationship with God. So this position, forgetfulness, can be changed, and human life is meant for that purpose. So far improvement of economic condition or other condition, that is already fixed up. One cannot change it. So that is confirmation in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: he is creating his own destiny. Just like it is said, "Man is the architect of his own fortune." Destiny cannot be changed. It is fixed up. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido [SB 1.5.18]. Anyone who is very expert and intelligent, he should know that destiny cannot be changed, but he can change his position with reference to his relationship with God. At the present moment he is forgetful of his relationship, but by good association, by Vedic knowledge, by training, he can change his position, and in that way he can improve his destiny also, or he can change his destiny. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām [Bs. 5.54]. A person, by engaging himself in devotional service, he can change his destiny. Otherwise destiny is very strong. It cannot be changed.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Why fatalistic? It is practical. You want to live, you want to enjoy this nice house, but you are not allowed. Why don't you talk practically?

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you are trying to become happy by material adjustment. This will never be successful. So what is their answer?

Harikeśa: They might point out how successful they have been in the past.

Prabhupāda: What successful?

Harikeśa: Now we have these big, beautiful houses. If it's too hot we air-condition it.

Prabhupāda: You have to be... You will be kicked out from the house. You will not be allowed to stay here. What is this success? You will be kicked out. What is your success? You have constructed very nice house. Very good. All credit to you. But I shall kick you out. What you will do? Where is your success? Hm? It is waste of time. That is sane man's intelligence. "If I am going to be kicked out, why shall I spoil my energy in this way?" This is intelligence. But they have no intelligence even.

Harikeśa: But that's just a fatalistic attitude.

Prabhupāda: Why fatalistic? It is practical. You want to live, you want to enjoy this nice house, but you are not allowed. Why don't you talk practically? That is your foolishness, that you will not be allowed—that's a fact—but still, you are spoiling your energy. That is foolishness.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

The charge "Hinduism is fatalistic" is false. Those who have charged like that, they do not know what is Hinduism. There is no such thing as Hinduism, but there is mention of sanātana-dharma, varṇāśrama-dharma. The Vedic system is that human being has got a certain amount of energy. That should be utilized for spiritual advancement.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "The traditional charge against Hinduism is that it is fatalistic, that it inhibits progress by making people slaves to the belief in the inevitability of what is to happen. How far is this charge true?"

Prabhupāda: The charge is false. Those who have charged like that, they do not know what is Hinduism. There is no such thing as Hinduism, but there is mention of sanātana-dharma, varṇāśrama-dharma. That we can find in the scriptures. I've already given note.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I have that.

Prabhupāda: So what is his, what is the charge?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He says that people are accusing that Hinduism, it inhibits the progress of mankind.

Prabhupāda: What is that progress? Dog's jumping is progress? (laughter) Is that progress? A dog is running here and there, here and there, and you are running on the four wheels? Is that progress? That is not Vedic system. The Vedic system is that human being has got a certain amount of energy. Better energy than the animals. Better consciousness. That should be utilized for spiritual advancement. So whole Vedic system is meant for spiritual advancement. The energy is employed in another direction, not the energy is employed to compete with the dog. Therefore sometimes those who have no idea of religion, they see that the... "Hindus" is not the proper term. The Indian saintly persons, they are not busy like the dogs. Because they think the dog race is life. But actual life is spiritual progress.

Fatalistic... I have given this example also. Just like a man is condemned by the law court to be hanged. Nobody can check it. Nobody can check. Even the same judge who has given this verdict, he cannot check. But if he begs for the mercy of the king, he can check it.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So then in terms of advancing in spiritual life, actually we can't say that the sanātana-dharma is fatalistic. That there is actually endeavor towards progress.

Prabhupāda: Fatalistic... I have given this example also. Just like a man is condemned by the law court to be hanged. Nobody can check it. Nobody can check. Even the same judge who has given this verdict, he cannot check. But if he begs for the mercy of the king, he can check it. He can go all above the law. Therefore, karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām [Bs. 5.54]. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said that destiny can be changed by Kṛṣṇa for His devotees. Otherwise it is not possible. If one is condemned to death, Kṛṣṇa can check it. Otherwise, it is falsehood when Kṛṣṇa.... Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66]," I shall give you protection from all reaction of sinful activities." Suppose you are to be killed by somebody on account of your sinful activity. Nobody can check it, ordinarily, but Kṛṣṇa can check it. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa's telling false, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi, "I shall give you protection." So therefore our business should be only to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. And if you artificially want to be more happy by economic development, that is not possible. That is not possible.

So destiny cannot be checked. The fatalists, they know, "My material happiness or distress, it cannot be checked. It will happen so why shall I waste my energy for this purpose. Let me utilize my energy for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Pratihatā means suppose you are destined to suffer. So apratihatā means in spite of your so-called suffering, the suffering will be reduced or there will be no suffering. But in spite of suffering, you can make progress in spiritual life. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja himself, his father was putting him in so many suffering conditions but it was not impeded. He was making progress. He was making progress. He didn't care for father'sputting him into so many suffering. That is called apratihatā. If you want to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness, your material condition of life cannot check it. That is the progress (?) (indistinct). But so far material condition, that cannot be checked. You have to suffer. But in case of devotee that suffering also, can be stopped. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa's version is false: ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. Suffering is there on account of my sinful activities but Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ. Make it clear. Ordinarily destiny cannot be checked. Therefore instead of wasting your time for change your economic condition or material destiny, you employ this energy for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That cannot be checked. Your so-called... So many men we can see, they are working so hard, does it mean that everyone has become a Ford, a Rockefeller? Why? Everyone is trying his best. Mr. Ford was to become rich man, his destiny was there, he became rich man. But does it mean that other man who has worked so hard like Ford, he has become like a Ford? No. This is practical. You cannot change your destiny simply by working hard like ass (?) and dogs. No. But you can utilize your energy for improving your Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

That's a fact. He was destined to be killed by his countryman, he was not? Such a big man, such vigilance and so many people were guarding him and still he was killed in the meeting. Why Mahatma Gandhi? Your president, ex, Kennedy. Was less protection was taken? No, every was there, everything was there but still he was killed. Who can stop this destiny? So destiny cannot be checked. The fatalists, they know, "My material happiness or distress, it cannot be checked. It will happen so why shall I waste my energy for this purpose. Let me utilize my energy for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Therefore it is said tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labyhate yad bhramatām [SB 1.5.18], that is intelligence.

I think that Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, they questioned that in India, people being fatalist...So what is progress? Our ācāryas, practically in Indian civilization, there are so many books of knowledge, but there is no recommendation for starting big, big factories for economic development.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:

tat-prayāso na kartavyo

yata āyur-vyayaḥ param

na tathā vindate kṣemaṁ

mukunda-caraṇāmbujam

Translation: "Endeavors merely for sense gratification or material happiness through economic development are not to be performed, for they result only in a loss of time and energy, with no actual profit. If one's endeavors are directed towards Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one can surely attain the spiritual platform of self-realization. There is no such benefit from engaging oneself in economic development."

Prabhupāda: This is our philosophy, and the whole world is engaged in economic development. So which is better? (laughs) Here it is said tat-prayāso na kartavyo. We see, especially in the Western country, they are very busy for economic development, and unless one is engaged... I think that Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, they questioned that in India, people being fatalist...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They questioned, many people think this is a hindrance to progress.

Prabhupāda: So what is progress? In India still, in so fallen condition, we have got practical experience. If there is some arrangement... Sometimes we arrange Hare Kṛṣṇa festival. Each day not less than twenty thousand, thirty thousand, forty thousand people come. Although these, mostly these foreigners, they are chanting, and we are speaking in English, still, to hear the kīrtana, they come from remote villages. In Calcutta I have seen. That is natural tendency of Indians. Bhārata-bhūmi, anyone who has taken birth in India, naturally Kṛṣṇa conscious. By artificial means, they are being suppressed. Just like this Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, they have questioned that... What they have said?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They said that there are many thinkers in India who consider that the Hinduism is fatalistic, and therefore it doesn't encourage people to make material progress.

Prabhupāda: That economic development. Our ācāryas, practically in Indian civilization, there are so many books of knowledge, but there is no recommendation for starting big, big factories for economic development. You'll find Vyāsadeva has written so many books, each book so valuable, instructive, but still he was condemned. Dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90], he dealt with these four subject matter, but not bhakti. Therefore Nārada Muni chastised him, that "You have wasted your time, simply writing on the subject matter of dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa, catur varga." Then, under his instruction, he wrote Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam simply on the glories of the Supreme Lord, without any attempt to write anything about dharma artha kāma mokṣa.