Prabhupāda: In my younger days, when I was in business, so I was to take agency one of big company, Smith's Transit Company. So they had to... I had to give some guarantee of my honesty. So in that program the question was whether married or unmarried. Because unmarried man mostly become dishonest. So that inquiry was there, "Whether he is married?" Married man cannot be dishonest because he has got responsibility. If he is arrested he will be insulted in his family. His family members will be in difficulty. Therefore he does not commit dishonesty very easily unless it is absolutely... But that should not be done. But unmarried man, because he has got no responsibility, he commits all kinds of sinful activity. That's a fact. Therefore in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we do not allow such illicit sex life, no. You must get yourself married. And practically, we are seeing, that is very effective and that is going on nicely. All right.
Family members (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"family and society members"
|"family consists of a few members"
|"family member"
|"family members"
|"family where every member"
|"family whose members"
|"member in the family"
|"member of His family"
|"member of Kamsa s family"
|"member of a family"
|"member of a great family"
|"member of a low-grade family"
|"member of any of their families"
|"member of the Kuru family"
|"member of the Lord's family"
|"member of the family"
|"member of the same family"
|"member of their family"
|"members of God's family"
|"members of God's family"
|"members of His own family"
|"members of Pandu's family"
|"members of a brahmana family"
|"members of brahmana, ksatriya or vaisya families"
|"members of her family"
|"members of her paternal family"
|"members of his demoniac family"
|"members of his family"
|"members of my family"
|"members of rich family"
|"members of such families"
|"members of such highly elevated families"
|"members of that family"
|"members of the Aryan family"
|"members of the Kaurava family"
|"members of the Pandava family"
|"members of the Yadu family"
|"members of the demoniac families"
|"members of the family"
|"members of the royal family"
|"members of the same family"
|"members of the spiritual master's family"
|"members of the whole Kuru family"
|"members of their families"
|"members of this family"
|"members of your family"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Haṁsadūta: "Wanted: qualified brāhmaṇas for preaching Bhagavad-gītā all over the world. (laughter) Candidates accepted without any discrimination of caste and creed. Apply ISKCON."
Yamunā: Oh, ho, ho, Prabhupāda!
Haṁsadūta: "Life member can send any member of his family for being trained up as a qualified brāhmaṇa who can preach Bhagavad-gītā as it is all over the world." You're going to put this in the newspaper?
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes.
Haṁsadūta: Oh, that will be nice. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yamunā: Oh, that's a wonderful notice, Prabhupāda. It's so wonderful.
Prabhupāda: We have to preach all over the world. We require so many men, so many boys, girls, men we want.
Haṁsadūta: I should send this to the GBC members in the West, and they should put ads in the paper.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Let us have application.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Sannyāsī should be always preaching. Parivrājakācārya. Four stages of sannyāsa: kuṭīcaka, bahūdaka, parivrājaka, and paramahaṁsa. In the beginning... Because according to Vedic civilization everyone has to take sannyāsa at a certain age. So as a matter of routine if he takes sannyāsa... Just like this old man I was asking that "Now you have children grown up, why don't you take sannyāsa?" But he is hesitating. Nobody likes, because sannyāsa life is difficult. So first there is kuṭīcaka means he gives up the connection of the family life, takes sannyāsa officially, but he is not accustomed to maintain himself independently; therefore, he goes out of the village and makes a cottage and lives there. And the foodstuff, the home supply, that is called kuṭīca. Kuṭī means cottage. Then when he is little practiced, then he says family members that "Don't bring foodstuffs. I shall go to every village man and ask something for my food. I shall depend on them, not on you." That is called bahūdaka. Bahū means many. Not accepting food from one place but from many. Then when he is prac... Because first problem is problem, when he is practiced, "Now Kṛṣṇa is giving us food, so why shall I remain in one place? Let me preach." That is called parivrājakācārya, when he is preaching. Parivrājaka. Parivrājaka means wandering all over. Then when he is experienced, when his preaching is done, he can sit down in one place. At that time, he can chant simply Hare Kṛṣṇa like Haridāsa Ṭhākura.
Revatīnandana: Everyone is a member of this movement. But some people have forgotten. Our movement is to remind them. Every living being is by nature a servant of God. Now people are forgetting. We want them to remember. We don't care for some difference of technique in worship. We want people to take up the business of chanting the names of God.
Prabhupāda: Just as in the same family some of the sons have forgotten father and some of them remember, but both of them member of the same family. Because he has forgotten his father does not mean that he is not son. He still remains. So actually, everyone is a member of God's family. That is our vision. Not only human being, but animals also. We therefore consider animals also brothers. We don't support animal killing.
Sister Mary: (indistinct) in your four principles.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Revatīnandana: We follow strictly these four principles. Just like this: no animal killing, no eating of animal foodstuff including meat, fish and eggs; don't take any kind of intoxicant, even tea, coffee.
Guest (2): You're still on number one?
Revatīnandana: No, that's number two.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Because India, the caste system is very strong. So a brāhmaṇa will never accept a girl born into a śūdra family, although in śāstra it says that you can accept. (Sanskrit) means family member is respectful. Your family consideration is very... During marriage ceremony, the family consideration is very strong. Now that is dwindling. Formerly, family traditions, then horoscope. The so-called love was not given any importance, the so-called love. As in other countries the boys select wife or girls selects... No. There is no importance on this. The father, mother will see the horoscope, whether this boy and girl will agree according to the horoscope. Rāja-yoga(?) There are some calculations, astronomical calculations, from his birth, from her birth, and the expert astrologer will select, "Yes, this boy and this girl will be happy." Then they are married. If there is any discrepancy, they will deny, "No." These were the considerations. Then family tradition. What is the tradition of the boy's father's family, mother's family, so many things they calculate, then the marriage settlement, "Yes." And the boy might not have seen the girl. There is no necessity of the boy seeing the girl or the girl seeing the boy. There is no necessity. After marriage, when the marriage ceremony is performed, then the boy and girl can see one another: "Oh, she is my wife." (laughter) "He is my husband." That. (aside) So. You can begin. Oh, this is another magazine, Earth.
Prabhupāda: So keep it and frame it, and keep it in my room.
Bali-mardana: Should the painters, should they paint such uh, this type of pictures?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not.
Bali-mardana: And they can distribute to the centers?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not all family members.
Bali-mardana: Just...
Prabhupāda: Simply Guru Mahārāja.
Bali-mardana: All right. What about this of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura?
Prabhupāda: Oh, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, but not that all family.
Bali-mardana: Yes.
Bhakti-devī dāsī: Have you ever seen Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Himavatī: I never hear from her anymore.
Prabhupāda: She's also not very happy?
Himavatī: No. I don't think she's very happy with me.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Anyway, you serve Kṛṣṇa and then your mother will be best served. Kṛṣṇa will favor all the family members of a devotee. You have seen from Prahlāda Maharaja's statement. Kṛṣṇa is so kind that anyone coming to become His devotee, He takes care of the family of the devotee-spiritually, for their emancipation. That is natural. Just like government. If somebody dies on the warfield, the government takes care of the whole family. Similarly, if the government has so much sense, do you mean to say Kṛṣṇa is nonsense? He also takes care of the family of the devotee. Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). Where is Nanda Kumāra, Pradyumna?
Devotee: Pradyumna's been studying all day. Ah... Nanda Kumāra may be..., is he there in the room?
Prabhupāda: No, I don't want(?). Maybe sleeping?
Devotee: He is tired.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Again, the same... You are comparing with yourself. Because your person can stay in one place only. That means you are simply comparing the Personality of Godhead with your personality. That you have to forget. He, He stays everywhere. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ (Bs. 5.37). Therefore we have to consult the authoritative Vedic literature. This answer is there, that goloka eva nivasaty, "He is living in Goloka Vṛndāvana; still, He is everywhere." You cannot think of. You are in this apartment. You are not in your office. But Kṛṣṇa, although He's in Goloka Vṛndāvana, He's everywhere, in everyone's heart. He's seeing everything. That you cannot imagine, how it is possible. That means you want to compare with your, this foolish, imperfect personality with God's personality. That is our defect. He's distinct from our personality, but He's a person. Yes. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He's also a person like us, He's also living entity like us. But what is the difference? He's the maintainer; we are maintained. How many persons you can maintain? A family of two children and one wife, you are embarrassed. And He's maintaining everyone. Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti... Innumerable living entities, He's supplying food everyone. He's supplying food the ants within the hole of your room there are thousands of ants. You are not supplying food. How they are getting food? Similarly, you go to the African jungle. There are thousands and millions of elephants. They eat one at a, oh, huge quantity. He's giving food. Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. In the air, within the water, there are so many living entities. In the air there are so many living entities. On the land there are so many living entities. Everywhere. How He's feeding? That is the distinction between God's personality and our personality. We are embarrassed to maintain a family of four, five members, and He is maintaining the whole family of living entities. Not only one planet, there are innumerable planets. And not only innumerable planets, the one universe, then innumerable universes. And these, all these taken together, this is one-fourth creation of God. So three-fourth creation is of the spiritual world. Just imagine how big it is. All of them being maintained by that one. This is the difference. (Someone comes in). Come on. Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. This is the distinction. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Hauser: Oh yes. But that's very often a symptom of a, of a psychosis that they feel that they are persecuted by, by foreign powers or by...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Foreign powers, yes. So this is called ghostly haunted. So our material conception of life, this is also ghostly haunted, madness. "I am Christian. I am Hindu. I am Muslim. I am Englishman. I am German." These are all conception of ghostly haunted. Because spirit soul is pure. In the Vedic language it is said: asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. The spirit soul has no connection with such designations. Just like in dream we see so many things. But it has nothing to do with me. So this is night dream. At night, we forget all these things about the day dream. "I am this, I am that. I am this family-member. I am his father. I am his husband." And so on, so on. At night, when dream, are in a different situation. And we forget everything. And again, in daytime, we forget everything of the night dream. We come another dream. So this is also dream. That is also dream. I am simply observing. In daytime I am seeing some dream, gross dream, and at nighttime I'm seeing some subtle dream. But seer, I am. Under different condition, I am seeing different things. I think you treats this madness. He's sees things in different way, in different positions.
Devotee: Bhāgavata.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
- tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer
- bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi
- yatra kva vābhadram abhūd amuṣya kiṁ
- ko vārtha āpto 'bhajatāṁ sva-dharmataḥ
- (SB 1.5.17)
Tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ hareḥ. Just like many of our disciples, as a matter of civilized man they should have remained at home, obedient to the parents, get married and live peacefully with father and mother. Of course, European, American boys, they do not do that. But it is expected that should be like that. Just like yourself. You should have lived with your father. He also. But you did not do this. So take it for granted, out of sentiment, you took to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tyaktvā sva-dharmam. To live family life, peaceful life, obedient life to the fathers and mothers, this is called sva-dharma. So one gives up this sva-dharma, tyaktvā sva-dharmam, and takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness gone... Not many, a few. So Bhāgavata says, yatra kva vābhadram abhūd amuṣya kim: "What is the wrong there?" Even if he has fallen down, half-way, still there is no wrong. He has gained something. That much service which he has already given to Kṛṣṇa, that is recorded. That is recorded. That is to his credit: "So this living entity has given service." But other men, he's very honestly living as a good citizen, as a good family member and good brāhmaṇa, good kṣatriya... So ko vārtha āpto 'bhajatāṁ sva-dharmataḥ. He's sticking to his own principle of life, but he's not a Kṛṣṇa conscious devotee. Then what is his gain? He'll simply take the fruits of his material activities and he'll have to accept another body according to that. But here, as it is assured in Bhagavad-gītā that śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate (BG 6.41), this man, who took by sentiment Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but could not follow it to the end; by some way or other, he has fallen but he'll be given chance to take birth as a human being, guaranteed, in rich family, or in nice devotee family, yogi family or brāhmaṇa family. So he'll be given chance. But that man will take only the reaction of his activities. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). So if he has acted like cats and dogs, he'll get the cats and dogs. But here it is guaranteed, here it is guaranteed that he's going to get another human body and very nice family.
Prabhupāda: That is the translation. Purport?
Śrutakīrti: "Purport: As far as the duties of mankind are concerned. There are innumerable duties. Every man is duty-bound, not only to his parents, family members, society, country, humanity, other living beings, the demigods, etc., but also to the great philosophers, poets, scientists etc. It is enjoined in the scriptures that one can relinquish all such duties and surrender unto the service of the Lord. So if one does so and becomes successful in the discharge of his devotional service unto the Lord, it is well and good. But it so happens sometimes that one surrenders himself unto the service of the Lord by some temporary sentiment and in the long run, due to so many other reasons, he falls down from the path of service by undesirable association. There are so many instances of this in the histories. Bharata Mahārāja was obliged to take his birth as a stag due to his intimate attachment to a stag. He thought of this stag when he died. As such, in the next birth he became a stag, although he did not forget the incidents of his previous birth. Similarly Citraketu also fell down due to his offense..."
Prabhupāda: Therefore we forbid to take to the karmī's life. Because at the time of death, if he remains a karmī, then he'll have to take birth as a karmī. That is the risk. So this regulated life, holding class, chanting, that will not make us fall down. That is essential. It is essential, regulate, to follow the regulative principles, chanting sixteen rounds, holding class. You can do anything, but this will keep us alive to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness platform. If you neglect that, then that is very risky. Even if you get next life birth in a rich man's family, that is not guarantee. Because generally, rich man's sons, they go astray. They get money for nothing and they want to squander it. And material world, if you have got money, so many bad associates will come and help you to squander your money and spoil your life. Because you have got money, then so many friends will come. As soon as you have no money, nobody will come. Even your wife, children will not come. Therefore hariṣye tad dhanaṁ śanaiḥ. Kṛṣṇa, first of all, takes away the money, makes him poor so that everyone will neglect him, and because he's Kṛṣṇa conscious, he'll take Kṛṣṇa, "Sir, I have no other alternative. Please give me protection." That is also another Kṛṣṇa's policy, special favor, that "This man wanted Me. Now he's going astray. All right. That's all right.
Prabhupāda: This is the duty of the father.
Guest: We give it at home, because we told her whatever she wanted to put things, mūrtis, other things, we have installed it.
Prabhupāda: Yes, let her enjoy this devotional life. She has developed it. It is a fortune for you because if one member of the family becomes a devotee of the Lord he can deliver all the members. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. Prahlāda Mahārāja, his father was Hiraṇyakaśipu, a demon.
Guest: I know.
Prabhupāda: Demon. Demon. (laughs) Prahlāda Mahārāja when he was asked, "Take benediction, whatever you like", he said, "Sir, what benediction I shall take? I have seen the benediction of my father. He was so powerful even the demigods trembled by his red eyes and You finished it within a second. So what is the value of this benediction? Kindly engage me in Your service." Then Prahlāda Mahārāja he did not ask anything for himself, but later on he asked Nṛsiṁha-deva, "Sir, my Lord, one request I can make. My father was great demon, he was against You, but still I pray that his liberation will be granted."
Guest: Very nice of him, very good of him.
Prabhupāda: (laughs)
Prabhupāda: And everyone is doing everything, whatever he likes.
Guest: No trade is going on. We are under the counter (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: If I just now cut your throat, the police will come, arrest me, note down and the judgement will be given when all your family members will be longer.
Guest: The judgement won't be given, the police will take money and...
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Lady Guest: Everything will be over.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: This the position. Everything is (indistinct). Therefore most important thing is people should come to his consciousness, real consciousness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Guest: Character.
Prabhupāda: Character, yes.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Pradyumna: (chanting Sanskrit to Bhagavad-gītā 1.28) (break)
Prabhupāda: "...with my family member shall come to fight with me, so what shall I say, that I have to kill my nephew, I have to kill my brother, I have to kill my grandfather, this is the fight? No, no I am not going to fight. Let them all fight." That is natural. So read it.
Pradyumna:
- vepathuś ca śarīre me
- roma-harṣaś ca jāyate
- gāṇḍīvaṁ sraṁsate hastāt
- tvak caiva paridahyate
- (BG 1.29)
Prabhupāda: "So how can I kill my brother and nephew and others, family members? So my bow is dropping."
Prabhupāda: "I have to kill them, all the religious and family members." Then?
Pradyumna: Etān na hantum icchāmi.
Prabhupāda: "I don't like. I don't want this fight." (laughs)
Pradyumna: Ghnato 'pi madhusūdana.
Prabhupāda: "Then let them kill me. I'll tolerate that. But I am not going to kill them."
Prabhupāda: So they are innocent people. They have imitated. Our, these so-called sādhu says that Lord Śiva used to smoke gañjā. That is their... So they have become Lord Śiva. Lord Śiva drunk the whole poison ocean and he kept it here. So you drink one drop of poison. But these rascals, they compare with Śiva, with Kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa danced with girls. Therefore we must have." These Māyāvādīs do that. I know.
Dr. Patel: You are... You have to... I've been... That is what I have, as one of the members of the Vaiṣṇava family, think, that you have to worship God not with the body consciousness, but with the soul consciousness. Then there is no question of Kṛṣṇa dancing with girls. It is a higher soul embracing the lower souls to him. Plain it has been...
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Dr. Patel: That is what we have been taught from our early days.
Prabhupāda: These rascals, they do not know what is Kṛṣṇa or what is Kṛṣṇa's behavior.
Prabhupāda: ...that your idea means our idea, carried.
Guest: Not necessarily. (break)
Prabhupāda: Officially it is not. Officially it is not. But being the family member, this is the family opinion.
Guest: Certainly, it's my honest opinion.
Prabhupāda: But the thing is I want to do something solid.
Guest: No, but what I say is my...
Prabhupāda: Even if you write, they'll not take care very much.
Guest: No, but, uh, I am hopeful.
Prabhupāda: You are hopeful, but I am thinking in otherwise, that...
Guest: Unless they have got some...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest: From Delhi.
Prabhupāda: That is ṣaḍ-lakṣana. That is another thing. Before sex, there is a ceremony. That is called garbhādhāna. (break)
Śrīdhara: "...ceremony takes place after the birth of the child. The family members take baths, cleanse themselves, and decorate themselves with ornaments and garlands. Then they come before the child and the astrologer to hear the future life of the child. Nanda Mahārāja and other members of the family dressed and sat down in front of the birthplace. All the brāhmaṇas who were assembled there on this occasion chanted auspicious mantras." (break)
Prabhupāda: (break) ...Mahārāja. This is kṣatriya king. Who has got so many cows to distribute? They cannot maintain even one cow. He is handed it over to the slaughterhouse. This is our position.
Śrīdhara: "He not only gave cows in charity, but hills of grain, decorated with golden bordered garments and many ornaments."
Prabhupāda: Anna-vastra, anna-vastra-dhana. Charity means to give in charity anna and vastra and cows. (break) ...give in charity some paper, one hundred rupees. (laughs) Another cheating. And he is also satisfied, "One hundred rupees." What is this one hundred? It is a paper, a piece of paper. (break) ...earned, black market, white market. Because when one does business, he has to do it, but it should be purified. I have seen the Marwaris, they do that. Although when earning money, they don't care, they do anything, but they give in charity. (break) ...purify the body by taking bath, similarly, the wealth is purified by the charity process, giving it to the brāhmaṇas and Vaiṣṇavas. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī. He accumulated much wealth.
Prabhupāda: I can understand that he is not very favorable. But still, you said that we hate Hindi. You have said like that. Don't say like that because there may be one... Because preaching means we have to preach amongst the rascals but you do not become rascal. He may be... (break) "...Who will read Hindi? You do not... Who will read Hindi? You can read Hindi, that's all. But who will read outside Hindi? Therefore, Guru Mahārāja..." This should have been the reply. "If there is good customers for Hindi reading, then we can write Hindi books. But nobody will read Hindi." That should have been the reply. Therefore we write in English. "Why Jawaharlal Nehru read his books in English? Why Dr. Radhakrishnan writes his books in English? He has not written a single book in Hindi. Why? Why he was president? Why he was prime minister? Why did you not criticize him?" That should have been replied, that "As soon as a book is written in English, it is for world reading. And if it is written in Hindi, who is going to read except a few people like you? Why still Indians, they are sending their children for education through English?" You know that? There are so many English medium school. Is it not? Yes. Why? Why they are anxious? So much agitation was made for studying Hindi, but then why India still, even in families they are talking in English? In Bombay they talk in English amongst family members. And any gentleman meets another gentleman—he talks in English. Why it has not been stopped? So actually Hindi has no effect and if we take international rule, what is the use of Hindi? Nobody will like to... And even here, even here in India, who is reading Hindi? Nobody is reading Hindi. It is compulsory in every province, Hindi? Not compulsory.
Yogeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, can we take a picture here please?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). So the Kirātas, they were always slaves of the Āryans. The Āryan people used to keep slaves, but they were treating slaves very nicely. Later on it degraded. Otherwise, slaves were kept just like family members.
Bhagavān: They had no resentment.
Prabhupāda: No, they were very happy. Just like you keep a dog. It is slave but it is very happy under the protection of good master.
Bhagavān: Actually, they like to work hard.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they like to work hard and they want good protection. That is their happiness. Even still in Africa, the servants, domestic servants, Africans, I have seen in Indian family, they are very happy. They are very happy, and the master also takes care of them. They want to eat sumptuously, and that's all. They have no other ambition. They don't want any motorcar or like this, no. And they work very nicely, domestic work, very clean. But sometimes they steal. That is their habit. My father used to say, "If you do not allow the servants to steal, so don't keep." Don't keep servants. "A servant who does not steal, he is not a gentleman. He must steal."
Dhanañjaya: I remember, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were saying that all we require is some oxen, and the oxen can carry.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The oxen will solve the problem of transport. That bullock cart. Just like Kṛṣṇa, when He was transferred from Gokula to Nandagrāma, so they took all the bullock carts, and within a few hours they transported them, the whole thing, their luggage, family member, everything.
Bhagavān: How far can a bullock cart travel in one day?
Prabhupāda: At least ten miles, very easily, very easily. And maximum he can travel fifteen miles, twenty miles. But when we are localized, we don't require to go beyond ten miles, five miles. Because we have created a rubbish civilization, therefore one is required to go fifty miles for earning bread, hundred miles, hanging.
Dhanañjaya: Like in Los Angeles.
Prabhupāda: Why Los Angeles? Everywhere. In New York they are coming from hundred miles. From the other side of the island. First ferry steamer, then bus, then so on, so on. Three hours, four hours, they spend for transport.
Prabhupāda: The difficulty is, "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." Better you keep yourself ideal character that people can see that "Here is an ideal group of men." Otherwise, in politics... They are feeling the necessity of an honest leader, but they are themself dishonest, they people. So when you point out that "This leader is dishonest," they do not very much appreciate. There is a story in this connection I will tell you, that one man was drunkard. So his friend said, "You are drinking. You will go to hell." "Oh, my father also drinks." "Oh, he will also go to hell." "My mother also drinks." "Oh, she will also go to hell." In this way, all the family members, they scrutinizingly studying, that all of them were drunkards. You see? Then the man who was accused of drinking, he said, "If everyone is going to hell, then hell is heaven. (laughter) Because my father is going there, mother is going there, my brother is going there, I shall go there. It is heaven. Where is hell?"
Devotee: Heaven is where all my friends are.
Prabhupāda: So this is the position. As soon as you point out, "This man is dishonest," and you scrutinize, everyone is dishonest, then where is dishonesty? It is all honesty. Because if the whole business is dishonesty, so there is no question of honesty? Let it go on. That is the public opinion. Why one should be unnecessarily honest? If the whole world is dishonest, and the dishonest world is going on, then where is the harm? What is the use of becoming... The same thing: "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss."
Prabhupāda: That is a fact. But this higher class and lower class will continue to exist. Even it is existing in communistic countries. That cannot..., you cannot stop in this material world. The tendency is that everyone is thinking that he shall be the best enjoyer, best enjoyer. So this is called struggle for existence. Naturally, this higher class and lower class will remain. You cannot stop it. Even in communistic country, this Khrushchev was driven away. He was taking all advantages for his family, for himself. As soon as he got the post, he misused it. He gave his son-in-law very big post, his family members. That was detected, and he was charged that "You are using your influence, nepotism." Therefore, he was driven away. So this natural tendency, as soon as one gets power, he will try to utilize it. This psychology you cannot stop in the material world. That is not possible. That sacrificing spirit, that "My life is dedicated to Kṛṣṇa," then it is possible. Otherwise, as soon as one will get some position and power, he will try to utilize it for his personal benefit. How you can stop it? It is like if you try to make the lion nonviolent. Is it possible? Why lion? Even an ant is violent. Even an ant it is violent. As soon as it gets opportunity, it will bite you. So this tendency of artificial supremacy means material life. That is material life. So how you can stop it? That separation is going on. You see in the spiritual life also. My Godbrothers, they are trying to suppress me. They are writing articles that in foreign countries these things..., Ratha-yātrā is going on, so many temples have been, but they will never mention my name. They have suppressed. They want to... They write articles in such a way that Bon Mahārāja has done so much and they have done so much, and my name is not mentioned. This spirit, "Oh, this man is going so high." Therefore, Bhāgavata says nirmatsarāṇām. You know the meaning of nirmatsarāṇām?
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So do that. Don't approach the cheater guru, bluffer guru, and be cheated. Stop this business. This has spoiled the whole spiritual atmosphere of the world. Take guru, the supreme guru, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, when in Mahābhārata when Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira performed rājasūya yajña, in the rājasūya yajña one person is elected the chief guest. So in that yajña many big, big demigods were present, and Bhīṣmadeva was present, Vyāsadeva was present, and many, many other saintly person, brāhmaṇa, from the whole universe were present. And Kṛṣṇa was decided to be accepted as the... Everyone agreed to accept Him as the chief guest. And the Śiśupāla, he protested. Then everyone was angry to kill him. So Kṛṣṇa is accepted the guru by everyone. By our ācāryas, recent ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya... I am not speaking of the loafer class, but those who are recognized ācāryas, Śaṅkarācārya... They accepted Kṛṣṇa as the supreme guru. Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So accept Kṛṣṇa as the supreme guru and follow His instruction and try to convince others. "Others" means even your family members. That is success of life. Saṁsiddhiḥ hari-toṣaṇam. Why should you lead your life blindly? This human life is meant for enlightenment, supreme enlightenment, and this is supreme enlightenment, to understand the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā and preach it as far as you can. If not, you can preach amongst your family members. This is perfection of life. What is that verse? Ya imaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati. That is the desire of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That's it. They are thinking, "I am doing my duty," but they do not gain anything. And a person doesn't care for any responsibility; he comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He gains something. Even if he falls down in immature stage, he gains something. But other man, he is doing his duty very nicely, but he is gaining nothing. You should read the purport.
Paramahaṁsa: "As far as the duties of mankind are concerned, there are innumerable duties. Every man is duty-bound not only to his parents, family members, society, country, humanity, other living beings, the demigods, etc., but also to the great philosophers, poets, scientists, etc. It is enjoined in the scriptures that one can relinquish all such duties and surrender unto the service of the Lord. So if one does so and becomes successful in the discharge of his devotional service unto the Lord, it is well and good. But it so happens sometimes that one surrenders himself unto the service of the Lord by some temporary sentiment, and in the long run, due to so many other reasons, he falls down from the path of service by undesirable association. There are so many instances of this in the histories. Bharata Mahārāja was obliged to take his birth as a stag due to his intimate attachment to a stag. He thought of this stag when he died. As such, in the next birth he became a stag, although he did not forget the incidents of his previous birth. Similarly, Citraketu also fell down due to his offenses at the feet of Śiva. But in spite of all this, the stress is given here to surrendering unto the lotus feet of the Lord, even if there is a chance of falling down, because even though one falls down from the prescribed duties of devotional service, he will never forget the lotus feet of the Lord. Once engaged in the devotional service of the Lord, one will continue the service in all circumstances. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that even a small quantity of devotional service can save one from the most dangerous position. There are many instances of such examples in history. Ajāmila is one of them. Ajāmila in his early life was a devotee, but in his youth he fell down. Still, he was saved by the Lord at the end."
Prabhupāda: Even by sentiment one comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is not loser; he is gainer. And if one person does not come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he does his duty very nicely, he gains nothing.
Indian boy: Is it possible that I live on my own and still be a devotee?
Prabhupāda: That will take long time. That, also, if you follow the regulative principles... It is difficult, little. But easier method is to live with the devotees because the situation and atmosphere in your home is different from devotion. So it is not very helpful. You have got other members in the family?
Indian boy: Yes, there is...
Prabhupāda: So if you want to do something, they may not like it. So that is impediment. But if you live with the devotees, then you learn quickly the art. You are Indian?
Indian boy: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Wherefrom you are coming?
Indian boy: I was born in New Delhi.
Prabhupāda: Oh. How you came here?
Indian boy: Well, my parents moved to Fiji Islands, and I was with them. And then we all came to Australia.
Prabhupāda: She is also Indian?
Prabhupāda: There is no check.
Justin Murphy: But how about the people living next door or the people...?
Prabhupāda: No, they can form different groups. You can form your group. Suppose there is hundred gentlemen in this neighborhood. We can sit down. If he has no time, they can sit down with family members. Everyone has got family. Everyone has got his wife, children or somebody else, servant. Sit down for half an hour and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty?
Justin Murphy: No difficulty at all. But it doesn't happen, does it?
Prabhupāda: We have to introduce. That is our movement.
Justin Murphy: Sure, yes, I can see that. But why aren't people doing it? Why aren't more people? In Perth, in this city, why aren't more doing it? I'll tell you one reason. And it is because Austra...
Prabhupāda: The people should be educated that "If you do not perform this yajña, you will suffer."
Justin Murphy: But, of course, there are conflicting educations, aren't there?
Prabhupāda: Whatever they may be. What is the wrong there, that, if we sit down together and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra without any loss of our factory or work? But if there is some gain, why not try it?
Justin Murphy: A delightful idea, a beautiful idea, and a very simple-sounding idea. How about, however, the Anglicans, the Roman Catholics, who are bound in this...
Prabhupāda: So try to bring your mother and sister to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is your duty also. And Kṛṣṇa will help. Because they are in relationship with you, Kṛṣṇa will help them, your family. Kṛṣṇa will think of your family, yes. Just like a soldier fighting, the government takes cares of his family. That is special prerogative. If he dies in the fighting, the government gives pension to the family members. So you are fortunate in that way because your son is fighting with māyā. So you take advantage of it. You read the books. You try to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. And your own son is there. You can take instruction from him. So take advantage. Don't lose this opportunity.
Mother: What do you think about Hebrew religion?
Prabhupāda: Well, there cannot be Hebrew religion, Christian religion, Hindu... Religion is one. Religion means God's rules. So God is one. So if you are this or that, you can manufacture so many ways, but God's ruling is one, that "You surrender to Me." That's all.
Mother: So we all believe in the one God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. God is one. God cannot be two. Then He is not God. There cannot be two Gods. God is one. Otherwise how..., what is the meaning of God?
Mother: That's right.
Gurukṛpa: But I am surrounded by my family members who will protect me.
Prabhupāda: But you keep out. You rascal keep out. That is the last answer. And they will be also kept out, but let them live for some time. Nobody will live here. What he will do about that? So long his life is there, he says, "Keep out," and when death will come, he will make him keep out. Then what he will do?
Gurukṛpa: But that is in the future. Now I will enjoy.
Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. That is foolishness, that... They have no future. So it is useless, "Keep out." Imagination, concoction, foolishness—this is the basic principle of material civilization. Mūḍhā, that's all. "I am asking to keep out; I do not know how long I shall live here." That he does not think. "I am asking others, keep out." If somebody asks him, "You are asking others to keep out, but when you will be asked to keep out, who will protect you? Is there any protection? Will your sons and grandsons and wife will protect you?"... That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, pramatto tasya nidhanaṁ paśyann api na paśyati, dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣu ātmaśainyeṣu (SB 2.1.4). He is thinking that "These, my wife, children, and relatives and friends, will protect me not to be thrown out." But that is not possible. He will be thrown out. He will have to be kept out. And that is not by accident. Everyone knows, "Yes." That is not arranged. It is already arranged. Where is the question of accident? It will take place. But paśyann api na paśyati, he is so rascal blind, although he knows, still he forgets. Forgets not. He tries to forget. Paśyann api na paśyati. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Do all these things, but remember Kṛṣṇa. Be attached to Kṛṣṇa. That is your business. And if you do not awaken that consciousness, then whatever you have done, śrama eva hi kevalam: simply waste of time and labor. That he doesn't know. Śrama eva hi kevalam. He has got to work hard for constructing building like this and keep others out and live peacefully. But when he will be kicked out, then all this labor is useless. Śrama eva hi kevalam.
Prabhupāda: But they do not know that where is the defect. Defect is that everyone has got some attraction. Somebody has attraction for his personal self. Somebody has got attraction for wife, children, family, then attraction for society. In this way they talk of many things. They have come to attraction of humanity. They are all nonsense. The attraction is for sense gratification under different names only. My attraction for family is not for their benefit. By my sense gratification the family members help me, therefore I am attracted. The wife gives me pleasure; therefore I like wife. The wife also likes husband because husband gives pleasure. Otherwise, there is no attraction. As soon as the husband and wife fails to give pleasure, divorce. The son goes out. The daughter goes out. So everyone is prone to some attraction. So if you keep them in the material attraction, then you can change the name; the disease will continue. That is the difficulty. You can change the name from this ism to that ism but every ism is material. Mūḍhā nābhijānāti.
Prabhupāda: If you have no qualification to see Him, even Kṛṣṇa comes before you, you cannot see. You will see Him—"Oh, He's an ordinary man like me," because you are not qualified to see Him. But when you become qualified, you will see Him always. Kuntidevi said, "Kṛṣṇa, You are within and without; still, they cannot see You." If Kṛṣṇa is within and without, there are two things. Still, the example is given, naṭo nāṭya-dharo yathā. Just like a friend or a family member playing on the stage, and somebody says that "Your brother is playing." "Oh, where is my brother? Where is my brother?" "He is just playing this part, taken this part." "Oh." So he requires the help. Otherwise he cannot see. Even he sees his brother or father playing on the stage, he cannot see. The example is very nice. Naṭo nāṭya-dharo yathā. He sees his brother at home, but he cannot see on the stage. Everything requires qualification. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for qualifying you to see God twenty-four hours. This is sum and substance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you learn this art, then you will see God twenty-four hours, without any stop. And that is accepted by Kṛṣṇa, that yoginām api... "He is first class who has learned to see God always in his..." Yogi means that. Yogi does not mean to play some magic. Magician also can play some magic. A devotee is not interested to show any magic, but he is interested to see the magician, supreme, who is playing so much magic. The yogis, they are thinking that "If I can play some magic, then so many people will applaud, and that is my success." But a devotee doesn't want anything. A devotee wants to see who is playing the magic, supreme magician, yogeśvara. Yatra yogeśvaro hariḥ. Find out, yatra yogeśvara hariḥ, Kṛṣṇa, Eighteenth Chapter. The supreme master of all yogic, mystic yoga, Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee (1): I have heard that.
Prabhupāda: No. This is not good. Ghee should be prepared where there is no more use. The Indian village, simply by keeping cows, they... Just like Nanda Mahārāja was keeping cows. Similarly there are many villages. So the system is: they have got a big pan, and whatever milk is collected, put into that pan. It is being warmed. So they drink, the whole family members. They drink milk whenever they like. So whatever milk remains at night, they have to convert it into yogurt. The next day they use milk and yogurt also, as he likes. Then, after converting the milk into yogurt, still, it remains. It is stocked. So when there is sufficient old yogurt, they churn it and then butter comes out. So they take the butter, and the water separated from the butter, that is called whey? Whey, yes. So they... Instead of dahl, they use this whey, for capati. It will be very healthy and tasty. And then the butter they turn into ghee. So where is the loss, (indistinct)? You require (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: He is American?
Jagadīśa: I don't know. (break)
Brahmānanda: Switzerland is his home. (break) ...in this agreement that they signed in Finland was that Russia has pledged to make it easier for granting visas for families, members who are outside of Russia so that they can come to Russia and visit their family members.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Brahmānanda: So this will be good for our, what is her name? That devotee?
Jagadīśa: Mālatī? Himāvatī?
Brahmānanda: No. That girl devotee.
Prabhupāda: Mandakini.
Brahmānanda: Mandakini. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...cious animals also.
Brahmānanda: Here?
Ambarīṣa: The black people from Detroit. (laughter)
Brahmānanda: They come here?
Ambarīṣa: Yes. It's a very dangerous park.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So anyone who is not aware of the spirit soul...
Prabhupāda: He is animal. That's all. Sa eva gokharaḥ. That is the verdict of the śāstra. Yasyātmā buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke: (SB 10.84.13) "Anyone who considers this body made of three elements—kapha, pitta, vayu—as self," yasyātm-buddhi kuṇape tri-dhātuke svadhiḥ kalatradiṣu, "and the accidental combination of family members, they are own kinsmen," sva-dhiḥ kala..., bhauma idyadhiḥ, "and the land in which they are born, that is worshipable..." That is nationalism, so-called nationalism. Bhauma idyadhiḥ yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile: "And going to the pilgrimage, taking the water as very important," yat tīrtha buddhiḥ na karhicij janeṣv abhijaneṣu, "and they do not care for the learned, experienced saintly person," sa eva gokharaḥ, "such person is nothing but cows and asses." That's all. If one does not know that he is not this body, he is different from body, so that sort of knowledge is there amongst the dogs. So why he should be distinguished from the dog? The basic knowledge is the same.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: One who has such knowledge... What is the position of one who has such theoretical knowledge but doesn't apply it?
Prabhupāda: Not theoretical. Practical.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In no way can anyone say that they're independent. There is no possibility. At every moment one is dependent. And if anyone says they aren't, they are simply foolish rascals. We have to challenge everyone in the world on this point, "You cannot be independent." He is pointing out, saying that even in politics, the politicians like Indira think that they are independent, and Prabhupāda was saying that Munshibhai Raman, he fought so hard for his country's independence, Bangladesh. But in one hour, when the soldiers came, they killed him and every single family member, not sparing anyone. But he thought he was independent. He thought his country had become independent. But in one hour it was all wiped away.
Prabhupāda: So where is your independence? What is the answer? At any moment you have to die. Even Munshibhai Raman or Mussolini or big, big, so..., Napoleon.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Franco. There was that Franco.
Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone. He was given horse urine to drink, Napoleon. Such a great hero, but he had to drink horse urine. This Englishman after Battle of, what is that? Waterloo. When he was arrested, when he was asking water, he was given horse urine. Because everyone was very, very angry. Napoleon became just like Hiranyakasipu. They were threatening their children: "Oh, he, Bona, is coming. Sleep. Sleep. Sleep." He became so much.... He was known as Bona. You do not know all these things?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Within the gotra. In the same gotra.
Prabhupāda: The same title, De, and same gotra; therefore it is the same family. That is the proof. So in the same family there cannot be any marriage. Sa-gotra. Sa-gotra-vivāha-niṣedha.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So no member of your family could have married someone in the Mullik family.
Prabhupāda: No. There is another Mullik family. They are different from our family.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are not De's.
Prabhupāda: They are not De's. They are Sil's.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cee?
Prabhupāda: Sil. Their title is Sil.
Bhavānanda: Sil. Sil.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, Sil.
Prabhupāda: Sil Mullik and De Mullik. There are two Mulliks. Their gotra is also different. So in the marriage, before marriage taking place, one has to calculate whether they belong to the same family, same disciplic... Then, if it is the same, the marriage will not... Same blood will not be accepted. Same family means same blood. So throughout the whole world same blood is not allowed, marriage.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Pañca-draviḍa: What kind of liberation does the family get of a pure devotee?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: One who becomes a devotee, the statement is that fourteen generations of his family, past, present and future, become liberated. So what kind of liberation does the family members of a pure Vaiṣṇava get?
Prabhupāda: Liberation means—that is explained by Caitanya Mahāprabhu—to become devotee. That is liberation. To become.... To become a devotee is itself liberation. (break) ...will come. Prasādam? Is there any such arrangement or not? They are coming. They should be offered some...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You mentioned the pots of halavā.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The pots of halavā. I inquired about it, and they said that semolina is very difficult to get now, that the government has only allotted some eighty pounds of semolina to be purchased.
Prabhupāda: No, it doesn't matter, but give him prasādam, other prasādam. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...halavā with powdered dahl or...
Prabhupāda: Go on. Yes, arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matiḥ. Narakī, if anyone thinks arca-vigraha, the Deities as made of stone, made of earth, or made of something material, and guru, the spiritual master, "He is an ordinary man"—these are forbidden. So why guru is to be considered sākṣād dharitvena samasta-śāstrair **, exactly (like) the Supreme Personality of Godhead? That reason is given there. That reason is that he is giving the Kṛṣṇa knowledge; therefore he is as good as Kṛṣṇa. Even though his family members or his friend thinking, "Oh, he has now become guru," still he should be considered the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That reason also given there, that even Kṛṣṇa was taken as ordinary man, but does it mean that He has become ordinary? Similarly any..., our movement, it may appear just like other movement, but because the movement is giving Kṛṣṇa, that means it is as good as Kṛṣṇa. This is the example. Ajñāya haña (follow the order). It may appear to others... And there are so many movements, and the hippies have taken another say(?), but it is not that. It is actually Kṛṣṇa. So long it adheres to the principle, "I'll enjoy, I'll be unaccepted(?)." Otherwise it is ordinary movement. This same man, he's guru, so long he gives the real knowledge of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: He is addressing his friends, "born of demoniac families, my dear friends." (laughs) Give him one chair, Dr. Wolfe. Yes, that's nice. He used to address his father also as "the best of the demons." Once his father asked him, "My dear son, what nice lesson you have learned in the school? Please tell me." So he addressed his father, asura-vārya, "the best of the asuras."
- tat sādhu manye 'sura-vārya dehināṁ
- sadā samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahāt
- hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ
- vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta
- (SB 7.5.5)
So, "My dear father," not "father," "the best of the asuras," asurya-vārya, the chief asura, "in my opinion," tat sādhu manye, "I think, so far I have studied," tat sādhu manye, "I think that is very nice, very honest profession of occupation for persons who are always full of anxieties." In the material world everyone is full of anxiety. That's a fact. Even in your country, the President Nixon, he was full of anxiety while he was in office, and now, out of his office, he's also full of anxiety. So just see. This is the best man in your country, president, the foremost man. So if he is full of anxiety, the others naturally... Everyone. So what is the cause of the anxiety? Asad-grahāt. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahāt. Asat means that does not exist, "not eternal," it is just opposite. Eternal is called sat, om tat sat, and asat means just the opposite. So here in this material world everything is asat. Even this body is asat; it will not exist. And what to speak of other things with reference to the body. Everything is asat. Anything material is asat; it will not stay, either these trees or this land or this world or this country or this, anything, asat. So asad-grahāt, on account of accepting things which are asat, not permanent, they are always full of anxiety. Just see how nicely explained, why one is full of anxiety. The reason is, he has accepted something which will not stay, endure, and he has accepted: "This is all in all. My country is all in all. My family is all in all. This body, all in all." But it will not stay. That's a practical fact. But they are sticking to these things. Deha-pātra-kalatrādiṣu ātma-sainyeṣu asatsu api. There is another verse where this word is used, asat. Everyone is thinking, "I am secure. I am born in a very good nation, state. My body is very strong. My family members are very nice, well-educated. I have got good bank balance, and I have got respectable position," so on, so on.
Prabhupāda: So instead of becoming devotee, he wants to become God. And that is the problem. But it is the most confidential part of knowledge. Instead of carrying out the orders of God, he wants to order God. You see? Even in the lower stages of devotion, that mentality continues, that "God is order-supplier. If God carries my order, then I accept God. Otherwise I reject Him." In Germany... One of my German Godbrothers, he told me in 1935 that in the last world war, many people became atheists. They went to the church and prayed, especially women, "My husband may come back," "My brother may come back," or "My father may come back." Because all men went to the war field, and the women were there, they prayed in the churches. But nobody came back, and they became atheists. That means they took God as order-supplier. They ordered God, "Return my father. Return my brother. Return my husband," and God did not return. "Ah, there is no God. I don't care." This is going on. God is order-supplier. But our philosophy is God is not order-supplier; we are order-carriers of God. Anukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśilanaṁ bhaktir uttamā (CC Madhya 19.167). Just like Arjuna became. He became carrier of order of Kṛṣṇa. He did not like to fight, to kill the family members, but when he understood that Kṛṣṇa wants it, then he..., "Yes." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). Find out this verse, naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labhdā tvat-prasādān madhusūdanaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Tava. Sthito 'smi gata-sandehaḥ: "Now I am situated in the real position, without any doubt." What is that position? Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava: "I shall carry out your order. I'll not ask you to become my order-supplier, but I shall carry out your order." And this is perfection of Gītā knowledge. And he did it. He did not like to kill his family members, but he did it. He killed Bhismadeva. He killed his teacher, Dronācārya. He killed his nephews, brothers, everyone. Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava: "You want it? All right, never mind. Even though I don't want it, I must do it." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava. Anukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śilanaṁ bhaktir uttamā (CC Madhya 19.167). Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). "I should not place any motive before God. I shall carry out the motive of God"—that is bhakti. So what is that confi...? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65).
Hṛdayānanda: And you were saying, Prabhupāda, that even when they have so much money they want more. This man is one of the richest men in the world, and for his own family member he would not pay some money to save him.
Prabhupāda: Who was that man?
Hari-śauri: Getty. He just died.
Hṛdayānanda: Just a few days ago he died.
Rādhāvallabha: In England. One of the richest men in the world.
Hṛdayānanda: Two of the richest Americans have just died.
Rādhāvallabha: Howard Hughes. Howard Hughes was considered the richest man in the country, and they found him dying in a hotel room of malnutrition.
Hṛdayānanda: He had become so afraid of death that he would wear a mask over his face to avoid germs, and he would be changing his clothes constantly, and he was living terrified of dying and losing his money. So in this way, in his last several years he became mad, just with the fear that he was going to die. (break)
Prabhupāda: What is your next publication?
Prabhupāda: Oh. What for he did it?
Mādhavānanda: His family members. And then on this island, at the very end, on the lake there is a very, very large mansion called the Garwood Mansion, but it was completely destroyed.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Mādhavānanda: Ah, this man Harris, he wanted to get all the people off of this land that he owned. So he let the hippies and Hell's Angels move into this Garwood Mansion, and they destroyed it. And they raised commotion and disturbance all along. He was trying to get them all to leave. He's a very strange person. Now he's trying to sell everything. They are thinking to make some housing complex. It's a very big business venture. That is why we want to buy this land in front, to protect this side of the house in case anyone else wants to build there.
Prabhupāda: They drink this water? No.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is God; whatever He likes, you have to supply. That is God. Why He likes, we cannot question. That is not the business of the servant. So as servant we simply obey the orders. That's all. That is real servant. Is there any instance the servant is asking, "Why you are asking me to supply you this?" Therefore what would be the position of the servant? He would be dismissed. Bhṛtyaś cottara-dāyakaḥ. That is very dangerous.
- duṣṭā bhāryā ṣaṭhaṁ mitraṁ
- bhṛtyaś cottara-dāyakaḥ
- sa-sārpe ca gṛhe vāso
- mṛtyur eva na saṁśayaḥ
Duṣṭā bhāryā. If wife is polluted, duṣṭā bhāryā, and śaṭhaṁ mitram, and friend is a hypocrite.... Duṣṭa bhāryā ṣaṭhaṁ mitram. What is that? Bhṛtyaś cottara-dāyakaḥ, and servant does not obey, gives answer or, yes, if your master asks, "Give me this," if he says, "Why are you asking?" Such kind of bhṛtya, servant, and polluted wife and hypocrite friend, three, and a snake within the bedroom.... (break) Family means father, mother, wife, children. Generally this is family. So family members are supposed to be all friendly, in one accord, so that family life is peaceful. But sometimes the family members become enemies. So how they become enemies? That is given by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita: mātā śatruḥ, ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatruḥ. Father is enemy if he's a debtor, he dies a debtor. According to Vedic law, because the son inherits the property of father, he's responsible also for the debts of the father, by law. A father dies debtor, so the creditor can claim from his son. So therefore ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatruḥ. A father who dies a debtor, he's enemy. Mātā śatrur dvicāriṇī. Mother becomes enemy when she accepts another husband in the presence of children. Mātā śatrur dvicāriṇī. Ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatruḥ is father and mother. Then wife: rūpavatī bhāryā śatruḥ. If wife is very beautiful, she's enemy. (laughs) Rūpavatī bhāryā śatruḥ. Because he will remain always anxious whether my wife is going with other somebody. And it so happens. (laughs) Rūpavatī bhāryā śatruḥ. And putraḥ śatrur apaṇḍitaḥ. And son is enemy if he's a rascal. So father, mother, wife, children.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Death will wait for your finishing? Death will come, it will not wait. People have become less intelligent, mūḍha. The general description is given in the Bhagavad-gītā: mūḍha, narādhama. Human intelligence requires to understand these problems, but because they are mūḍha, and lowest of the human, simply like animals, eat, drink, be merry and enjoy. Narādhama. You do not solve the problems. Simply like animal, dancing. So go on reading.
Jayādvaita: "The kṛpaṇas or miserly persons, waste their time in being overly affectionate for family, society, country, etc., in the material conception of life. One is often attached to family life, namely to wife, children and other members, on the basis of 'skin disease.' The kṛpaṇa thinks that he is able to protect his family members from death; or the kṛpaṇa thinks that his family or society can save him from the verge of death. Such family attachment can be found even in the lower animals who take care of children also. Being intelligent, Arjuna can understand that his affection for family members and his wish to protect them from death were the causes of his perplexities. Although he could understand that his duty to fight was awaiting him, still, on account of miserly weakness he could not discharge the duties. He is therefore asking Lord Kṛṣṇa, the supreme spiritual master, to make a definite solution. He offers himself to Kṛṣṇa as a disciple. He wants to stop friendly talks. Talks between the master and the disciple are serious, and now Arjuna wants to talk very seriously before the recognized spiritual master. Kṛṣṇa is therefore the original spiritual master of the science of Bhagavad-gītā, and Arjuna is the first disciple for understanding the Gītā. How Arjuna understands the Bhagavad-gītā is stated in the Gītā itself. And yet foolish mundane scholars explain that one need not submit to Kṛṣṇa as a person, but to the unborn within Kṛṣṇa. There is no difference between Kṛṣṇa's within and without. And one who has no sense of this understanding is the greatest fool in trying to understand Bhagavad-gītā." (continues reading texts purports, 8-12, until the end of the recording.) (end)
Mr. Davis: And the spirit would not necessarily have the ability to point and say "I used to be in that body or that body or that."
Prabhupāda: No, that he forgets. Death means forgetfulness. Just like accepting that I was existing in previous life, but now I do not remember. This is death. But I am existing, that's a fact. The same example. Everyone knows that he was existing as a child, he was existing as a young man. So because it is short period, I remember, but when the body is completely changed, the atmosphere is completely changed, we forget. But actually I exist continually. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This is the authoritative statement, that I am not annihilated on account of my body being annihilated. So they bury the body or giving some name, some tomb, that is the business of my relatives, my friends, my family members. But as I am, I am aloof from this. I have accepted another body. And then begin my life in a different way. So people do not try to understand this science, how it is happening. That is all described in the Bhagavad-gītā. If we study Bhagavad-gītā very carefully, we can understand the philosophy of life correctly.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This gentleman here has a question, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Eugene Thoreau: You mentioned understanding, you mentioned lawyers arguing and the judge make the decision and their higher authority resolves the question. Can you suggest how people can go beyond that to spiritual understanding—not just appealing for judgment over a controversy about facts. What suggestions or comments do you have about achieving spiritual understanding?
Prabhupāda: That is very simple. Spiritual understanding, that is, I was speaking... This is beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Spiritual understanding is that I am not this body. (to devotee) You move it this way. This is spiritual understanding. So long I am under this bodily concept of life, that "I am this body," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Christian," "I am white," "I am black" and so on, so on, these are all bodily concept of life. So long we keep ourself on this platform, then we are on the material platform. When we understand that "I am not this body..." That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Deha means this body, and dehī means the owner of the body. So unless we distinguish the owner of the body and the body, there is no spiritual knowledge. So long we identify with this body, that is material knowledge. And when we understand that "I am not this body, I am a spirit soul, I have been entrapped by this body," that is spiritual knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Practice this. Your mind, when he says something hodgepodge, just beat him with shoes. Just to bring him in order. Here is the real understanding, that
- naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā
- tvat prasādān mayācyuta
- sthito 'smi gata-sandehaḥ
- kariṣye vacanaṁ tava
- (BG 18.73)
This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Whether you are prepared to act according to the direction of Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. Otherwise you are in darkness. So as Arjuna, he was in the darkness... He's kṣatriya. The fight was arranged between the two sections of the family, Pāṇḍavas and Kurus, and when he was to fight actually with his family members, he became bewildered, that "Kṛṣṇa, what is this? I'll have to kill my family members." So then he became His disciple, that "I am kṣatriya, it is my duty to fight. Now I am hesitating." Kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ (BG 2.7). "I'm just deviating from my duty, so Kṛṣṇa, I accept You as my guru-kindly give me instruction." So that Bhagavad-gītā was given instruction... (break) He agreed, "Yes, now my illusion is over, I shall fight." This is understanding of Bhagavad-gītā. If you follow Arjuna as he understood, then your understanding of Bhagavad-gītā is perfect. If you do not understand, then you have not understood what is Kṛṣṇa's speaking and what is Bhagavad-gītā.
Indian man (4): Swamiji, in Bhagavad-gītā we can see that Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna that "I will not fight for you, but I'll only drive your chariot." Why He refused to fight? Why He didn't fight?
Prabhupāda: That is, because it was fight amongst the family members. So He was also related with the Kuru family. His aunt, Kuntī..., Kuntī was married to the Pāṇḍavas. So the family members may not think that He's partial, so He divided Himself into two. His soldiers one side, and He Himself one side. And Arjuna and Duryodhana were present, requesting Him to take their side. So Kṛṣṇa said that "We are all family members, so I divide Myself into two-My soldiers and Myself. So if you want, you take Me or My soldiers, as you like, but if you take Me, I say I'll not fight." So Duryodhana thought that "Kṛṣṇa will not fight and He's prepared to give me soldiers," he took the soldiers, and Arjuna said, "No, I want You." So this was the division. So in the beginning He said that "Even if I go to one side, I'll not fight." So how He could fight? Not that He was not a fighter, but because He promised that "The side which will accept, I'll not fight." But He did not say that "I'll not give you instruction of fighting." That is Kṛṣṇa. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Bhakti means yes, exchange of love between God and the individual soul.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This becomes awaking of the spiritual platform. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness process is gradually to purify one, because that natural loving propensity is there. Our contention, and practically we are experiencing it, is that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is natural way of life. It's not artificial imposition. Rather in this present materialistic way of life, so many artificial standards and impositions have been put upon us. We can see that because culture is always changing. One year this is right to do, the next year that's right. Everything is simply mental concoction. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness process is eternal, it's never changed. We have history from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. For millions and millions of years people have been engaged in the very same process that we're following: of chanting the holy names, worshiping the Deity in the temple, taking prasādam, association with saintly persons. The very same process, it hasn't changed. And the very same sentiment of love of God is being awakened naturally. So our contention is that the love is simply misdirected. It simply has to be redirected towards Kṛṣṇa, and the spiritual master, he does this. He takes our energy, our love, our intelligence, our everything and directs it towards Kṛṣṇa. And as a result, you become purified. A very natural process. Just like we have a propensity to love so rather than waste our love on the temporary forms of the material world, because they're all perishable. Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣv ātma-sainyeṣv asatsv api (SB 2.1.4). First of all we love the body, deha. And apatya, we love the family members, the sons, kalatra, we love our wife, ādiṣu we like our community, nation, so many things. But all of these things, they're temporary. They won't last, they can't endure. So all of our love practically is being wasted. It's stolen.
Prabhupāda: There is an example. In a water tank you throw one stone. It becomes a circle. And the circle expands, expands, expands unless the circle comes to the shore. Similarly our loving affair begins from personal self to family, from family to society, community, nation, international. But still, it is imperfect unless the circle reaches to the lotus feet of God. Then it is satisfied. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42). Here, any loving affairs, that is more or less lusty. A man or woman love each other with some desire, not without desire. That desire is sense gratification. But actually that is lust not love. Pure love can be exchanged in relationship with God. Here there are temporary... A boy, a girl or a man, a woman in relationship of love but it breaks as soon as the lusty desire is not fulfilled. So here there is no question of love. It is all lusty desire. Real love can be achieved when it is exchanged with Kṛṣṇa or God. Premā pum-artho mahān, that is the recommendation given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That is the highest (indistinct) when we come on the loving platform with God, then we are satisfied. Big, big political leaders in our country like Mahatma Gandhi, he loved his country so much. But the result was that he was killed by his own men, by his country men. But this is not possible when the love is exchanged between God. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31), a little love for God can save you from the greatest danger of life. That is real love. So if you love Kṛṣṇa, then you can love with everyone. Just like we are spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is out of love for Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise we would have sat down at home and love Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Here is a family man. How you say it is against family? There are so many families here, children. You have seen our class in the morning?
Interviewer: No, I have not.
Prabhupāda: All family members, children, husband, wife, they are present there. How do you say it is against family? Wrong criticism. This is...
Interviewer: Are your followers encouraged to visit with their...
Prabhupāda: No, first of all you take your answer one by one. You say, "against the family." It is a wrong. It is a wrong propaganda. Oh, there are so many families in our society. It is a society. There are family members. There are brahmacārīs. There are sannyāsīs and vānaprastha. Whatever situation is suitable for you, you can accept, and in any situation, you can become God conscious. That's a wrong propaganda, that we are against family. Here is a wife of a boy. They have family. There are so many families. Why do you say like that, "We are against family? It's a wrong. You should note it especially that this type of criticism is envious. It is not proper. We invite all families, children, husband, wife, "Come on. Take Kṛṣṇa consciousness."
Prabhupāda: Even, say, hundred years ago, that Girish Chandra Ghosh, he wanted to introduce theatrical performances, imitating the European theatrical performances, man and woman taking part. So he wanted to invite woman artist. Not a single woman joined. Who will go to public stage to dance, respectable girl? They'll never. That is hundred years. I am speaking, say, about forty years ago. In one of our Dayanika(?) men, the girl was to be married, and it is the custom in India—the bridegroom's party comes to see the girl, whether she is right. Similarly, the girl's party goes to see the.... So they came to see one of my friend's daughter, and the daughter is very beautiful, rich man's daughter. So one of the bridegroom's party questioned, "You know how to dance?" That was the question to the girl: "You have learned something about dancing and singing?" So she was my friend's daughter, my, that friend, Mukunda Mati. His elder brother was there. He became very angry, that "This rascal is asking our daughter whether she knows dancing and singing." She took it as.... He took it as insult, that "Respectable family, daughter should learn how to dance, how to sing?" So immediately he protested, "No, no, no, she does not know how to dance, how to sing. She's not meant for that purpose. We like, of course, a young girl dancing and singing, but we cannot teach our family members. We spend for that outside. You cannot expect our Mullik's family daughter dancing and singing. No. He is well, good(?)." Actually that is.... Dancing? Singing? What is this nonsense? For a respectable family? It is meant for the low-class professional. Pay them, they will dance. Or go to some prostitute. She will dance. So he said that "We have got some taste for dancing, but not that our family members should do that. We pay for that outside." So this art.... And among the theatrical, Girish Chandra Ghosh could not get a single response from any respectable family. Then he had to seek some young girl from the prostitute class. They became later on famous artists, Kusumakali Dāsī, this Dāsī.... Nowadays it has become a fashion that aristocratic family should join this cinema and spoil their character. Otherwise it was meant for the.... No respectable man.... You find the Bhāgavata description, especially for the brāhmaṇas, the professional who would come. They'll take their reward.
Nava-yauvana: They say that God has no need to enjoy.
Prabhupāda: Beat him with shoes on his face. Because He has created and He has no need to enjoy. Why He has created? He's your father's servant, that He's created for you? He has created for His enjoyment. That is the tendency everywhere. I create something for my enjoyment. But I can allow others to enjoy also with me, that is another thing. How can you say that God has simply created for your enjoyment? What is his claim? Is there any practical example in the world, that somebody creates something for others? Is there any example? Why do you claim in this way, which is unusual? What is the ground of your this rascal philosophy? Wherefrom you get this idea that I create something for somebody else? I create for myself, for my enjoyment. But I can allow you to enjoy with me. That is another thing. A father creates family for his own enjoyment. Wife, children, he wants enjoyment—society, family. Therefore he takes the risk of maintaining so many people. He feels some enjoyment, therefore he takes the risk. Otherwise he has no business. Why should he create unnecessary trouble to maintain a family, maintain wife, children and society? The principle is if you create something, it is created for your personal enjoyment. But I can allow my sons, my wife, my family members to enjoy with me. But the basic principle is for my enjoyment. This is natural. Where do you get this philosophy that...? What you said? That God cannot enjoy.
Prabhupāda: Yes, He's giving. Read the Bhagavad-gītā. But you rascals don't accept, what can be done? God is personally coming to give you intelligence, take this intelligence. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham (BG 4.7). "I come when there is no intelligence, when you are all rascals, I come to give you intelligence, but you don't take, what can I do?" That is God's mission, that "These rascals, without properly being guided they'll go to hell. Let Me give them some intelligence." That is Bhagavad-gītā, that is Bhagavad-gītā. Arjuna is kārpaṇya doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ: "I have become confused, so give me intelligence." Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). He's taking intelligence, how to tackle the situation. He was confused. He was to fight as a kṣatriya, but he saw that the persons with whom he has to fight, they are all family members. So what kind of fight is that? Who is fighting with family members? That was his confusion. Suppose we are Kṛṣṇa conscious society. Then if we declare fight amongst ourselves, is that very intelligent? So actually the Kurukṣetra battle was like that. Some intrigue of Dhṛtarāṣṭra that his son will occupy the throne, that was the cause of the fight. So Arjuna thought that "My uncle may be intriguing person, he has brought this disaster, fight amongst the family members, so why shall I do it? Better let them enjoy. They are also family members. Why this unnecessary fight?" He was responsible. He was not unreasonable, very good man, that "After all, they are also our family members, let them enjoy. Why there is unnecessary fight amongst family members?" He was not a coward, but he's good reasonable man, that "We are all brothers. They want to rule over. Let them rule over. Why fight?" Sometimes it is misunderstood, Kṛṣṇa is misunderstood, that Arjuna is such a nice man, he didn't want to fight, and Kṛṣṇa's inducing him "Yes, you must fight." It is puzzling. God is inducing a good man to fight, who does not want to fight. It is really puzzling. Is it not? Arjuna is a good, nice man, that "After all, it is family property. So other brothers, they want to rule it over. Let them do it. I shall better beg only.
Hari-śauri: Now they don't own so much.
Prabhupāda: No, the Deity has got income. So they have got terms for worshiping the Deity. So one who gets the term for worshiping, he takes the income.
Hari-śauri: Oh, in the family members.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but practically that is now their income. The more one gets the worshiping term longer, he gets more income. (laughs) The Deity has got very, very good income. All the temples in India... Just like I am trying to make some fund for Vṛndāvana and Māyāpur. Even no contribution comes, it will go on. The sevā-pūjā will not stop for want of money. So there will be no want of money. Still, I must make some provision, by the income the sevā-pūjā will go on. Contribution may come or not. That provision should be made. Now in Vṛndāvana Akṣayānanda is collecting in so many ways. Suppose nobody collects. That does not mean this temple will be closed. It must go on. So I am trying to make some provision from that bank interest. At least five to ten thousand rupees so that the Deity worship will not be stopped. That is the system in all Indian temples. It must go on, nitya-sevā. It must go on. These big, big temple in Vṛndāvana, they have got such arrangement. Otherwise how it is going on for five hundred, six hundred years? They have very good income. Govindajī has got eighteen thousand rupees monthly income. That is... He's the richest Deity in Vṛndāvana. And Raṅganātha is tenant of Govindajī. Land is taken from Govindajī, and Raṅganātha's temple is constructed. The Raṅganātha's temple management pays the rent. So Govindajī is the landlord and Raṅganāthajī is tenant. Raṅganāthajī is Rāmānuja-sampradāya, Govindajī is Gauḍīya-sampradāya. (laughter) So Rāmānuja-sampradāya is the tenant of Gauḍīya-sampradāya. (break) No, as many as we want. Why? (end)
Jayapatākā: I went to Haridaspur as soon as I received your letter because Bahusvarūpa was there, making arrangement for the Janmāṣṭamī festival. So I spoke to all those people for two days, Thursday and Friday. And the land is in the name of the zamindar, Mr..., Ghosh family. There's fourteen members who have to sign. So in Haridaspur nine members are living, and they are all agreed for signing. And they say the other five members live in Calcutta. Once they sign the deed, they'll also sign. There's no doubt because that's not even in their possession. That's in the public's possession. And all the public, Anchal-pradhan and all the other leaders of that village they are also all eager to have us start . I think that we can also raise some money in the neighborhood. There's some relatively rich people. So that... I was trying to register that before I came here but because Monday is... That zamindar has one haṭṭa. And that's... His haṭṭa day is Monday, so he was busy. And Tuesday was Janmāṣṭamī by government of West Bengal, and Wednesday was our Janmāṣṭamī and Haridaspur Janmāṣṭamī, and I came here today, Thursday, so we couldn't do it beforehand. But as soon as I go back, I can register that. And... But someone should immediately come, Mūrti or Saurabha or someone and see that land.
Prabhupāda: No, no, we have to... Yes. We have to see, make plans.
Jayapatākā: Because actually just by giving the site plan you can't make a plan because that's a high area and it goes down to the river. So from our land to the river, that is also under our use. That is klashjami.(?) That is no man's land, but that we can also use and that has to be some strengthening so that when the river..., and rain cannot wear down the side. So these details they should come and see, and then they could make a proper plan, I think. Without seeing, they can't make. 'Cause it's a very small area, it should be very well planned. And the local people there, they are very innocent people. They don't seem to have any type of enmity or envy at all. They all come and chant and see. Although they don't strictly follow the rules, naturally. They eat fish and other things and smoke, but they seem to be simple people. If someone would work with him, I think he could make the whole village gradually Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But here, mass of people, they do not know what is politics. One gentleman, he was my friend, it was in 1952 or '53, Mr. Datt. He was a statistics man. So he was going in the villages to take some statistics. He said to me: "In the village, they ask me, 'Bābujī, iṁrej kakhan... (in Bengali asking "When will the English return?')." So (Hindi). The mass of people, they're for foreigners' rule: "Come and rule over us." Because the mass of people they have no sense of politics. Anyone may come and let them rule, we don't mind. Whatever little tax you want, you take, that's all right. The mass of people is like that. They are not concerned in politics. Under the circumstances, a democracy is not suitable for India. Long ago that Lord Curzon, he suggested this, that in India monarchy is better. He suggested that some of the royal family members should become King of India. It will be welcome. And our country, all along this monarchy was there. Democracy is idea now, but the monarch up to Parīkṣit Mahārāja, they were ideal, rājarṣi. People have so much faith in the monarch that whatever he does, it is right. Naradeva. Of course, nowadays things have changed.
Prabhupāda: Woman is meant for that purpose, how to make nice palatable dishes.
Devotee: Just these young boys who were carrying the bricks every morning, they would prepare their own vegetables and cāpāṭis like this, and I was amazed to see this because you would never get anyone doing this...
Prabhupāda: Jaya. In Bengal there is a ceremony after marriage, bahu-bhāta. (?)The newly married girl, she shall cook, and all the relatives, friends, are invited and they appreciate, "Yes, nice cook." Then she is accepted as member of the whole family. Bahu-bhāta.
Devotee: And if not, Prabhupāda? If her cooking is not...
Prabhupāda: Therefore she is trained up.
Devotee: And if she's not trained up.
Prabhupāda: She must be trained up. Just like Rādhārāṇī, She was trained up in sixty-four arts. Do you think to captivate Kṛṣṇa is easy thing? How much qualified She must have been so that Kṛṣṇa was attracted. (loud laughing in background) What is this?
Indian man (3): Laughing is also exercise.
Prabhupāda: First of all friendship, and that established them. And then they began to create enmity. Hindus against Muslim, Muslim... They wanted to stay. When they forgot this idea that if they wanted to stay for the benefit of the people, nobody could drive them away. But their policy was for the benefit of the English people. Therefore they failed. Lord Curzon, he says a statement that, "If you want to stay in India, rule India for the benefit of Indian people. You can keep control over India. They are fond of kings, so one member of the royal family can become king here and they'll earn respect and honor (from) these Indian people. But rule for their benefit. Then British Empire will stay." Very good advice, but his advice was not taken. You have seen Lord Curzon's statue near the, in front of the Victoria Memorial Hall?
Haṁsadūta: Hm.
Prabhupāda: He was a very good governor-general. Many gentlemen came, they wrote very conscientiously and the last one, that rascal Chelmsford (chuckles), he created havoc.
Mahāṁśa: ...a trench and a hedge, which has been planted here so that people and animals... Animals is the main problem. They come and they eat up the plants which we grow. So by having this trench we avoid animals from getting in and a hedge also. There'll be a lot of... One big problem that the Badrukas faced was that there was tremendous pilferage. These village people, they live on this land. They used to cut all the wood here for fire, they used to take whatever grows here, maize, and they used to steal in the night everything. Many times...
Prabhupāda: So ask them to chant and take prasādam. They will be rectified. Make them friends, family members. Just we organize, everything is there.
Devotee (2): Yesterday this truck came.
Mahāṁśa: Yes, I told Prabhupāda. (break)
Prabhupāda: It is full of dust, and we have to believe this.
Indian man: No.
Prabhupāda: Just see, a rascal scientist, "Full of dust."
Prabhupāda: Literally, yes. The thing is the interpretation is required when you cannot understand. If, if I say, "This is a stick," everyone knows it is a stick. So I say, "Here is a stick." So if you say, "No, I do not accept it is stick." So what is that interpretation? Everyone knows it is stick. Similarly, Kurukṣetra means that the place, still existing. And in the Vedic śāstra it is ordered, kurukṣetre dharma yajayet. You go... From time immemorial it is a place of pilgrimage. Even Kṛṣṇa, during solar eclipse, Kṛṣṇa with His family, He came there, Jagannātha. The ceremony is there, Ratha-yātrā. Because Kṛṣṇa, Balarāma and Subhadra came in the same chariot. That is being performed. So Kurukṣetra, dharmakṣetra, at least five thousand years ago the system was that people used to come to Kurukṣetra as a place of pilgrimage, dharmakṣetra. And Kurukṣetra, the place is there. And the the two family members, the Kurus and the Pāṇḍavas, they fought. The Battle of Kurukṣetra took place. These things are evident. Then why there is need of interpreting? That is the first point.
Indian man: No, but, that... Which Gosvāmī?
Prabhupāda: No, any Gosvāmī. Because the Gosvāmīs were so popular that amongst the villagers, when there was some disagreement between family members they used to come to him and say to him, "Bābā, (Hindi)." That means in that way he had to see many women many times. Why he should refuse? And what is the meaning of refusing if one, anybody... Even Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not refuse, but women used to offer their respect from little distance, not very near. That was Caitanya Mahāprabhu's restriction. But in our association there is no such thing as refusing anyone the opportunity. Kṛṣṇa does not say. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ striyaḥ śūdrās tathā vaiśyāḥ (BG 9.32). He does not make any... And so far my institute is concerned, we do not make such thing. Everyone should be given chance. But we have restriction that we should mix with women very cautiously. You should not have any illicit sex. These things are there.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Brahma-bhūta... Jīva-bhūta, everyone is thinking, "I am this body." That is jīva-bhūta. And when understands that "I'm not body, I'm within the body," that is brahma-bhūta.
Dr. Patel: That is ādya. Perpetually Brahman...
Prabhupāda: No, this is the beginning of spiritual knowledge. Therefore Kṛṣṇa begins from this point. "Why you are thinking that you are one of the family members? This is bodily concept."
Dr. Patel: Nobody is your relative, but the soul can never die. This is the body. Body has no value. Lot of mosquitoes, you know?
Prabhupāda: Mosquito? Here?
Hari-śauri: There's a few.
Prabhupāda: What is this?
Hari-śauri: This is a (indistinct).
Dr. Patel: I'm not covered (indistinct) my legs. There's a lot of mosquitoes in here.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Dr. Patel: That is the highest
Prabhupāda: So He became very dissatisfied. He... Because friendly, He said that "If you don't accept svāmī, then you are a veśya." These words He recited, svāmī nā māne yei jana veśyāra. These are there, these words.
Dr. Patel: Vallabhācārya's establishment of his own family members as the paramparā is wrong. That is why the whole system has degraded.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not śiṣya-paramparā.
Dr. Patel: Śiṣya-paramparā is the right... The same thing is happening in Swami Nārāyaṇa's. They have degraded. Because Swami Nārāyaṇa actually put his two nephews as ācārya. That was wrong. In South with Rāmānujācārya, they have got a śiṣya-paramparā. But they have also degenerated.
Prabhupāda: No... Sons also may become śiṣya provided he's qualified. Otherwise not.
Prabhupāda: No, New Vrindaban, whole thing. That is called Bahulaban or something like that? So the cows are free moving. They're very happy. You have seen it?
Jagadīśa: The original farm I haven't seen for some time.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Last time you were not... I had been there. The cows are moving freely. They're very friendly, even to the children, just like family members. Yes. Kṛṣṇa... You'll find in India one boy taking care of twenty-five cows.
Jagadīśa: With just a stick.
Prabhupāda: Yes, with a stick. (chuckles) They are so submissive. The cow is going this side, "Raa-raa!"—immediately. (Jagadīśa laughs) When in Bible they say, "The animal is given to the care of man," like that... There is. This is care of, not that "Because we care of, we shall kill them." What is this interpretation? How demonic this Western civilization. "Because Jesus Christ, the God, has given the animals to our care, therefore we shall kill and eat." Anyway, try to introduce a renovation of civilization. Therefore they are trying to oppose us. Now they are conscious about the movement, that "If it is allowed to increase, then our program will be finished. And young men are taking. They are not rejecting." That is their concern.
Hari-śauri: Kulādri has a box.
Prabhupāda: First class. And they have got enough milk. When I went there, all nice milk preparation. Ghee, sweet rice, these sweets. Ample. All variety. And they have ghee. Then prepare kachori, samosa. Such nice thing. And how friendly the cows. Just like family members. And they're giving more economically. That's practical. More milk. Then?
Pradyumna: "If there is enough milk, enough grains, enough fruit, enough cotton, enough silk, and enough jewels, then why do the people need cinemas, houses of prostitution, slaughterhouses, etc? What is the need of an artificial luxurious life of cinema, cars, radio, flesh, and hotels? Has this civilization produced anything but quarreling, individually and nationally? Has this civilization enhanced the cause of equality and fraternity by sending thousands of men into a hellish factory and warfields at the whims of a particular man? It is said here that the cows used to moisten the pasturing land with milk." It's nice. You compare the warfield and the factory. I think people appreciate that. You compare the factory with the warfield.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So whatever thought comes to me, I discuss as far as possible. Why these things are... Therefore I want to organize this farm project. Let there be ideal. And it is becoming ideal in America. People are coming even from the school, college, they are coming to see New Vrindaban. And there was section where our enemies, they are not disturbing. So they are appreciating. Still we are not thoroughly organized, but still they're appreciating. They'll appreciate. One day will come they'll appreciate. And other parents, as they come and thank me, "Swamiji, it is our great fortune that..." Many parents came when I was in Los Angeles.
Prabhupāda: Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya Kṛṣṇa.
Rāmeśvara: "There are two legal cases in progress at this time that we must support—one in New York and one in Los Angeles. In New York the two ISKCON leaders have been indicted by the Queens County Grand Jury for unlawful imprisonment and attempted grand larceny. In Los Angeles, ISKCON and Madonna Slavin have accused her family of kidnapping, and charges of unlawful imprisonment have been entered against the mother and several other members of the Slavin family and two friends." These two friends are the professional deprogrammers. Then it says, "As in nearly all of these cases, the media will greatly influence the outcome. Do not underestimate the power of the media. We therefore must tell our story..."
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's already become media.
Rāmeśvara: "We must therefore tell our story to them in great number, and in this way the world will hear of it. As of this date, HK," short for Hare Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: They're chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) They're chanting Kṛṣṇa. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Becoming more interested. So let us go on fighting with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no disappointment. Yudhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). We shall fight and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then everything is all right. We cannot stop fighting.
Rāmeśvara: Actually, one argument that they use... They have found an old Back to Godhead article that I think you wrote, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It was about Arjuna's position during the battle of Kurukṣetra, where he had to fight against his relatives. You were commenting that "So sometimes you may have to even kill your family members for Kṛṣṇa." So they take this magazine article, and they say that "Hare Kṛṣṇa leaders are teaching all the devotees to kill their parents." So this is an example of how they will distort everything.
Prabhupāda: That... You can distort anything. If there is expert distortion, it is...
Trivikrama: We can kill our parents even, like Prahlāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is actually required. Prahlāda did not protest. It is a great sin, if your father is being killed before you, if you do not protest even, "Why you are killing?" not to give protection. But even if you do not, then you are not worthy son. So in that way Prahlāda Mahārāja was accused that in his presence his father was being killed. He did not protest, neither he... Rather, he was ready with the garland: (laughter) "As soon as my father is killed, immediately garland the Lord." So that is not the fact. And he is... Later on, he requested that "My father was a great offender. So kindly give him protection." So he's not..., that son. He knows... He knew that this, "My father is being killed by the nails of my Lord. It is his great fortune." Why shall he protest? He's seeing that "My father is being released from this material existence." Why shall he protest? And still to confirm it, he requested the Lord that "This, my rascal father made so many offenses..." But for him he did not ask anything, but he's such a good son that for demon father he requested. So how much faithful son he was, this is the proof. Not that he was unfaithful to him. He knew it, that "Let my father's body be separated from his soul by the Lord. That is good for him." And still to confirm it he personally requested that "My father may be excused." "Why your father? Your father's father, his father, everyone, up to fourteen generations."
Hari-śauri: Tato vakṣyāmi te hitam.
Prabhupāda: Tato vakṣyāmi te hitam. This is the confidential knowledge. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam (Brs. 1.1.11). You simply act favorably to Kṛṣṇa. Then agreed: "Yes, I shall fight." Because he understood that "I have to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, not my whims. I was thinking of my whims, that 'They are my family members. Why shall I fight? Why you are putting me this proposal? So on, so on, so on...' " That... What is that verse? Find out that kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). There. There you'll find. Agreed. "Yes." In the beginning he disagreed. Naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā tvat prasādān madhusūdana, kariṣye vacanam. Naṣṭo mohaḥ. After so much instruction, if his moha is not dissipated, then what is the use? So he said naṣṭo mohaḥ. You could not find?
Hari-śauri: What's the first line?
Prabhupāda: Naṣṭo! Why don't you find? You. Give him. He'll find. Why don't you give to Pradyumna?
Hari-śauri: Naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā?
Prabhupāda: Ha!
Ādi-keśava: Just like in the case of Vasu-gopāla. When he was held in his house, he managed to get to the phone and call me. So we went out to his house with some of the brahmacārīs from the temple and starting breaking all the windows in the house and smacking down the doors. And as he was running around the house, his brothers and friends were grabbing him and throwing him down against the walls and locked him in a room to try to get him away from us, and they were fighting. Finally, they say in Ted Patrick's book, they thought there were twenty-five of us. There were only four of us or five of us. So finally, in the end, they were so terrified that all of them began to fight. Even this Ted Patrick came at me with a straight razor. In those cases, generally, they use the family members for the fighting.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This clouds the issue in the courtroom, because everyone naturally feels very sympathetic towards the fathers and mothers. So always... These deprogrammers are very intelligent. They personally try to avoid the physical part, so they get the parents to do it.
Ādi-keśava: And then, if the person strikes out at the parent, they say, "Just see how crazy he's become!" Just like with Vasu-gopāla, he took a stick and hit his mother across the head and ran out shouting the name of Nṛsiṁha-deva as they were holding him captive, so he could run away. And so they said, "Just see how crazy he's become that he hit his own mother." Of course, the fact is they didn't mention they locked him in the bathroom for thirty hours just before. They kept him in a little bathroom. They locked the door, put him in there for thirty hours. All they mentioned is that he come out and hit her on the head with some stick. So then they say, "Just see! He's acting against his parents." So then the judge says, "Oh, what can I do? Naturally the father loves the son."
Prabhupāda: So why don't you quote from our śāstra that "He is not father." Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt. Find out this verse.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Sometimes we find a dilemma in preaching, in the sense that if we preach very vigorously we invoke the attention of the authorities. That is to say, if we were to preach a little less vigorously, there might be less objection, but then again there would be the less benefit because we would not be preaching as vigorously. It's very hard to know sometimes just how forcefully to preach.
Prabhupāda: No, we are not to satisfy the authorities. We have to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna. He wanted to satisfy his family members, but Kṛṣṇa did not like that. Then He preached him Bhagavad-gītā, and then Arjuna agreed, "Yes." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). So it is the duty of the devotee to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, not the public.
Brahmānanda: In our Back to Godhead magazine now the tendency is that they're not mentioning Kṛṣṇa's name so much. They're not putting the picture of Kṛṣṇa. They're not putting the pictures of the devotees. They're stressing on like simple, natural life in order to please the public.
Prabhupāda: No. Why this is going on?
Satsvarūpa: Probably because of this reasoning, that... They use this phrase, that "We have to make Kṛṣṇa consciousness more conventional, and with the shaved heads and pictures of Kṛṣṇa, people won't like it." So they've taken to this description of simple life, vague talk of spiritual life, reincarnation, meditation.
Tripurāri: Seems like a compromise.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: People are speaking about our movement now. Many people say to us that "You are selling out, compromising your position." And they...
Prabhupāda: This should be stopped, immediately. Why they are doing that without..., concocting?
Prabhupāda: There is no way to engage them to work properly?
Saurabha: Yes. At the moment I have... It is going nicely. I have been with people in Makrana and about forty people here which is very... I don't think there are many projects in India where they have so many. But there are always things happening. Political sometimes. Sometimes they ask a lot of money. Because they are all related. They are all family members. Like one big family. So if something happens and they are not pleased with it, then they, everyone...
Prabhupāda: So make arrangement so that they are not displeased.
Saurabha: Yes, I am very careful, and at the moment it is going very nicely.
Prabhupāda: So keep that standard. Money scarcity we shall not allow. We shall put.
Saurabha: I pay exact what they are working for.
Prabhupāda: Money's, Kṛṣṇa's supplying; so there is no question of scarcity. Finish it as soon as possible. There is no question of money supply. Yes. So Lokanātha Swami, your bullock cart program, how it is going on?
Lokanātha: I have got just one letter from them when I was in Vṛndāvana. They were doing good, but there was not enough men with them. I left five boys when I left Māyāpur for Vṛndāvana. One of the boys, when he came to know that I am not traveling, he decided not to go. And one other boy was approached and was asked to stay in Māyāpur. So there are only three boys on the bullock cart.
Prabhupāda: Nobody is joining?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...and I'm going to request...
Prabhupāda: Each family...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...to give one family, one member.
Prabhupāda: That's it. Very nice.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually they are very attracted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So let them be trained up and then go there and follow our instruction and develop. In the meantime you can take it. The Lord Clyde, a crewman in the ship, he developed a British empire in India, organization. He's an insignificant person. He established British empire.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lord Clyde.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: From there we can also go to Burma.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: It is there already. But you are blind. You are cheater. You see things, one thing, and you speak another thing. You are cheating. Now, in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā, when Arjuna surrendered to Kṛṣṇa as a student-śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: (BG 2.7) "Kṛṣṇa, there will be no utility by arguing. I know that I am not doing my duty. I am kṣatriya. I am in the active field, and I am declining to fight. This is not good for me." Kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ: "So I can understand that I am puzzled that how I can kill such enemies who are my family members? This is my problem." (aside:) Here is a monkey. (Hindi)
Indian man (3): There are two.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (laughter) And we want to be happy. Tri-tāpa-yantana,(?) three types of miseries, are always there. So Kṛṣṇa, when took charge of teaching him, the first lesson was that "Arjuna, you have talked like a very learned man, but you are not learned."
Prabhupāda: So there is no hurry. Go on with your respective duty. That's all. All right. Now you can...
Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)
Prabhupāda: The system of management will go on as it is now. There is no need of changing. The money which is in my personal name in different banks, that is being spent for the society, and it will be society property. In this connection a few deposits, which is allowing some pension to the members of my former family, may not be touched. That's all, two points. Hm? What do you think? So...?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What can I suggest?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That in regard to the three temples, Māyāpur, Bombay and Vṛndāvana, you should designate who you want the trustees to be.
Prabhupāda: That I shall do.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: BBT is there.
Prabhupāda: These are the points.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And I have the numbers of your fixed deposits, so when you mention the former family members, we can specify which deposits they are.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they'll be no misunderstanding.
Prabhupāda: That is also lifetime.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In their lifetime, not beyond.
Prabhupāda: And after the demise the money belong to the society.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Society. That means the deposits will remain intact, and simply the interest will be given as a monthly stipend.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You can transfer at any moment.
Girirāja: And then for the fixed deposits, the interest for your family members, that we would just leave them in your name, as it's mentioned in the will, and throughout their life they will get the income.
Prabhupāda: That we shall do. I shall... How to do it... For the time being you haven't got to bother.
Girirāja: No.
Prabhupāda: So that I shall pay.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We also felt that. We wouldn't bother with that.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. Very good.
Girirāja: So we are...
Prabhupāda: Do it very nicely, cool-headed. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). We shall be always prepared to take instruction from Kṛṣṇa. That is best.
Prabhupāda: All right, don't make if it cannot be so worded(?).
Girirāja: "This direction is irrevocable. 5. I declare, say and confirm that all the properties, both movable and immovable, which stand in my name, including current accounts, saving accounts and fixed deposits in various banks, are the properties and assets of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, and the heirs and successors of my previous family or anyone claiming through them have no right, claim or interest in these properties whatsoever save and except as provided hereinafter. Although the money which is in my personal name in every bank is being spent for ISKCON and it will belong to ISKCON, I have kept a few deposits specifically named for allocating a monthly allowance of Rs. 1,000 to the members of my former family—two sons, two daughters, and wife. After the deaths of the members of my former family these specific deposits, or this interest and savings, will become the property of ISKCON for the purpose of the trust, and the descendants of my former family or anyone claiming to be them shall not be allowed any further allowance."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says that the deposits are "mentioned therein."
Girirāja: No.
Rāmeśvara: It just says that they are specifically named somewhere.
Girirāja: It's except for these, it's all the deposits of ISKCON. It says. We weren't sure about this, but since Mr. Sharma mentioned it, we put: "I hereby appoint..."—and then we've kept some blank space—"...to act as executors of this will. I have made this will this-blank-day of June, 1977, in possession of full sense and sound mind, without any persuasion, force or compulsion from anybody. Witnesses, 1., 2., 3."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dr. Ghosh should be one of the witnesses. According to Mr. Sharma, if a doctor witnesses, it's very good, attending physician.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (Bengali conversation) Britishers made a mistake. They made a empire, very good, but they did not rule for the people. They wanted to rule over the world for their own sake, London. Their policy was all big, big brain from England should go outside, earn money and bring in London, exploit. Therefore it is... Otherwise it was a very grand plan. They were very nice. This was suggested by one of their viceroy in India, Lord Curzon, that "India is a vast country, very cultured country. Don't try to exploit them. Better send one royal family member to become king here and rule as one empire. Don't discriminate." The others did not like the idea. "Make England's men king in India. The people in general, they like king. And rule over them and have good relationship." These rascals, they did not like.
Upendra:
- nidrayā hriyate naktaṁ
- vyavāyena ca vā vayaḥ
- divā cārthehayā rājan
- kuṭumba-bharaṇena vā
- (SB 2.1.3)
"The life span of such envious householders is passed at night either in sleeping or in sex indulgence, and in the daytime either in making money or in maintaining family members."
Prabhupāda: So this business...
Śatadhanya: They waste all the time.
Upendra:
- dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣv
- ātma-sainyeṣv asatsv api
- teṣāṁ pramatto nidhanaṁ
- paśyann api na paśyati
- (SB 2.1.4)
"Persons devoid of ātma-tattva do not inquire into the problems of life, being too attached to the fallible soldiers like the body, children, wife, etc. Although sufficiently experienced, still they do not see their inevitable destruction."
Prabhupāda: What is the purport?
Upendra: This material world is called the world of death. Every living being, beginning from Brahmā, whose duration of life is some thousands of millions of years, down to the germs who live for a few seconds only, is struggling for existence. Therefore, this life is a sort of fight with material nature, which imposes death upon all. In the human form of life, a living being is competent enough to come to an understanding of this great struggle for existence, but being too attached to family members, society, country, etc., he wants to win over the invincible material nature by the aid of bodily strength, children, wife, relatives, etc. Although he is sufficiently experienced in the matter by dint of past experience and previous examples of his deceased predecessors, he does not see that the so-called fighting soldiers like the children, relatives, society members and countrymen are all fallible in the great struggle. One should examine the fact that his father or his father's father has already died, and that he himself is therefore also sure to die, and similarly, his children, who are the would-be fathers of their children, will also die in due course. No one will survive in this struggle with material nature. The history of human society definitely proves it, yet the foolish people still suggest that in the future they will be able to live perpetually, with the help of material science. This poor fund of knowledge exhibited by human society is certainly misleading, and it is all due to ignoring the constitution of the living soul. This material world exists only as a dream, due to our attachment to it. Otherwise, the living soul is always different from the material nature. The great ocean of material nature is tossing with the waves of time, and the so-called living conditions are something like foaming bubbles, which appear before us as bodily self, wife, children, society, countrymen, etc. Due to a lack of knowledge of self, we become victimized by the force of ignorance and thus spoil the valuable energy of human life in a vain search after permanent living conditions, which are impossible in this material world.
Our friends, relatives and so-called wives and children are not only fallible, but also bewildered by the outward glamor of material existence. As such, they cannot save us. Still we think that we are safe within the orbit of family, society or country.
The whole materialistic advancement of human civilization is like the decoration of a dead body. Everyone is a dead body flapping only for a few days, and yet all the energy of human life is being wasted in the decoration of this dead body. Śukadeva Gosvāmī is pointing out the duty of the human being after showing the actual position of bewildered human activities. Persons who are devoid of the knowledge of ātma-tattva are misguided, but those who are devotees of the Lord and have perfect realization of transcendental knowledge are not bewildered.
Prabhupāda: Sometimes I become surprised how I have written this. Although I am the writer, still sometimes I am surprised how these things have come. Such vivid description. Where is such literature throughout the whole world? It is all Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Every line is perfect.
Prabhupāda: Eighty.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Eighty.
Prabhupāda: There were many cases.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What... I mean, what is the reason behind that? Isn't that very old to get married?
Prabhupāda: If he had no family member, he would marry again. (pause) But it was subject of criticism.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Must have been.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. But the custom was that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Seems like someone should simply cultivate spiritual life at that age instead of...
Prabhupāda: In Bhāgavata there are many instances, very old man married. Anyway, this gentleman was such a nice devotee. Oh.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was particularly nice about his devotional quality?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which devotional qualities particularly did he...?
Prabhupāda: Because later on he retired—he was a pleader—so whole day and night, simply devotee. Sometimes he would offer obeisances to the Deity. Actually he was old man. He'll fall asleep by... And he would remain in that two, three hours.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Shah.
Rāmeśvara: The Shah. Very briefly. And he is allowing Parivrājakācārya to visit the court. Practically every day they send a car to pick him up, chauffeured car. And he goes every day to the palace and he preaches to different members of the royal family.
Prabhupāda: He tries to understand the philosophy.
Rāmeśvara: Not yet the Shah. He is simply smiling that he's... He's happy that he's coming. But the other members of the family, some princes and princesses, they are taking it very seriously. They are eager to help us.
Prabhupāda: That's good news. What is this?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tape recorder.
Prabhupāda: It is a good news.
Prabhupāda: If other owners are doing that, do that for us, in my name.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda, automatically the receipts will probably come in your name.
Jayapatākā: We pay the land tax. And receipt is given on the owner of the land, but it mentions who gave it as a matter of fact, but it's given in the name of the owner.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So can they claim any right as a tenant based upon the fact that they paid the taxes? All right, anyway, let us see. I mean, I understand your desire. We'll try and encourage them to fulfill your desire, that they live there and be happy. (background conversations) See, I think one of the things that should be done is that they should sign. Vrindavan should sign an agreement saying that he agrees not to sublet it to anybody else. Because right now there's no such agreement at all. We're letting them live there, and they can do whatever they want. When he comes here... He'll be coming here. So when he comes here he should sign an agreement that he agrees not to sublet or to let anyone else except the family members live in this apartment.
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because, Śrīla Prabhupāda, our Society cannot loan money for a business like this. This is not our Society's business at all. You're not... Of the one lakh of rupees' worth of books, only six thousand rupees is from ISKCON's books. So how can we loan one lakh of rupees? We can't start loaning money for these kind of businesses. It's against the Society's memorandum and rules that money can be given to individuals for their personal businesses. This is a charitable society. It's bounded by the Society's charity laws. So, Prabhupāda, whatever money he has, he has got as a binamida of the Society. He may donate the money in the sense of giving a stipend to family members. That's different. But as far as giving loans for business purposes to an individual private business... I mean we would lose our charitable status, because the accounts are audited every year. So it will look very... In fact, if we do that, then they may raise objection to the stipend also. Now they can't raise objection, because it's given as a stipend to the family, former family of this ācārya. They won't say anything. But if we start taking Society money and loaning it to a private business, which is the way they'll see it, then they'll raise objection. Furthermore, then we'll have to charge interest, and if we charge interest, that gets us into a lot of trouble also. As a Society, we're not supposed to be doing business, profit-making business.
Prabhupāda: So when the certificates matures, what is the amount?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The amount, I believe, is about 43,200 rupees.
Prabhupāda: So this much can be given to him. You can...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: That amount can be given to him, and he may pay back the loan.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he's getting the postal receipts, so let him keep those.
Prabhupāda: Yes. When it is matured...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...tomorrow probably. (indistinct) ...loan... Actually we're not loaning him that money. That money is being given as a gift to him. He was willing to pay it back. I said, no, this is a gift from you to him for improving his business. I said actually it's meant for each of the family members. I told him, "You use it now for improving your business. Then if business increases, you can eventually pay each one of them the money that they should have gotten." He said, "Very nice." And I explained to him what squandering meant. Now it is very clear. I told him that "You can use the money each month that you get. And all of you can use it for three things: for purchasing property, increasing business or buying government stocks." I said, "Prabhupāda's point is that whatever he's given you, it should increase in its value. He wants to see that it increases." And now it's very definite, so... Again I explained to him how there should be no difficulty with this, getting this... He's a little lazy. He's lazy. I could see that when he thought that the money was a donation, I think it came in his mind that "Even if the business deal doesn't go through, I still get the money." He should be encouraged, but his tendency is to be a little lazy. They should not be given money easily, too easily. Otherwise they won't work hard. He's also getting some money, he told me, from a fixed deposit in Calcutta from the BBT which he uses for travel expenses. He says gradually he will be paying some of that money back. He said that's why he sent you sometimes... He recently sent 870 rupees. He says that he's using it for travel expenses, and he may pay it back. I didn't know if you had arranged anything regarding that. You expect him to pay that money back, or not necessarily? It should be.
Prabhupāda: No, I expect.
Prabhupāda: So he will carry all these letters.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So what he's going to do... Today I'm giving you... And I explained to Vrindavan, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that originally these receipts, these postal receipts, were meant for all of the five former family members, but as he's doing business now and he requires some money, that Your Divine Grace is giving him this money as a good chance. And I said that he should utilize it to develop the business. And in the future, when there is sufficient money, he may pay to the individuals the amount that they would have gotten from these postal receipts. But first of all use it and develop the business. Is that all right?
Prabhupāda: It will be success...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So these are the receipts. They're not actually the certificates themselves, but they're... As you can see, it's called an identity slip. I'll just take one and read it to you. As it's mentioned... It's mentioned on the N.B., on the back side. "N.B. This slip may not be surrendered to the post office when the holder discharges only some of the certificates held by him, but must be handed over when all the certificates detailed in the slip have been cashed." So the bank will want these. You can hand them over, you take a receipt from them, that "These were given by Vrindavan-candra De to you," like that. That's when...
Vrindavan De: Shall I give it to my banker? This? Or to Bank of Baroda?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. You give it to Bank of Baroda.
Vrindavan De: In Calcutta?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Vrindavan De: Ācchā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You give it to Bank of Baroda.
Prabhupāda: Take Chandra with you.
Girirāja: Yes, it is hopeful. Then he has one local boy who has joined, Nepali, and he's a very nice boy. I mean, there's so much field for preaching. There's the royal family, then there's membership for the business community, and there's saṅkīrtana and book distribution for the general people, and then also there are many hippies there. So we could recruit devotees from amongst them.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The hippies seem to be still our best customers, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The hippies seem to be still very good customers. (Prabhupāda laughs)
Girirāja: That's because Prabhupāda's patita-pāvana. And the temple atmosphere is nice. It's mainly saṅkīrtana. There are no women there, so very good atmosphere. They have a nice program. They have a love feast program, and many people are coming. I think they can have two or three hundred people coming very soon. And the people are very simple and good natured. Everywhere we went, people would chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They recognized the devotees?
Girirāja: Yes. And they're not envious. It seems that in India many of the people are a little envious of us, but everywhere we went in Nepal, it seemed that the people were very happy to see us.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Have you ever been there, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: No.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You'd like to go sometime?
Prabhupāda: Why not?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. We'll include that on our world parikrama.
| Page Title: | Family members (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 14 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=86, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 86 |