Exploitation (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"exploit" |"exploitating" |"exploitation" |"exploitative" |"exploited" |"exploiter" |"exploiters" |"exploiting" |"exploitively" |"exploits"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Otherwise I don't initiate. I don't take cheap students, that "You can do whatever you like, and you pay me some money. I give you some mantra, and you become God." I don't say like that. I don't bluff like that. I have not come to earn money from your country, but I have come to your country to give you something sublime, not to take you, not to take from you, not to exploit you, but to give you something sublime. You see? So that is the third stage, initiation.

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Interviewer: How do you account for most of your disciples being so young that is, right after university age, and what have your inroads been here in Seattle during the month that you have been here?

Prabhupāda: I have come here for the last ten days only. And at least two or three is already converted (in) Seattle. Yes. I want to see the youngsters in your country to be happy. Everyone wants that, but not only in your country, I want to see everywhere. Because that is the duty of every human being, to give information of highest happiness. That is the duty of every human being. The animal propensity is to exploit others. And human propensity should be to do good to others. That is the difference between animal propensity and human propensity. So here is a nice thing, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why should you not distribute? Especially in your country where there is great need for it? They are not after economic development. They have seen much of economic development. Now it is time for them to take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and they will be happy. That is my mission.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- August 15, 1971, London:

Śyāmasundara: We don't want to fight. None of our boys want to fight.

Prabhupāda: They also do not want fight but they are forced. They do not want to fight. Because they're... Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In the Kali-yuga everyone is śūdra. What he'll fight? Fighting is not the business of a śūdra. It is meant for the kṣatriya. And nobody is being trained as kṣatriya or brāhmaṇa. Everyone is being trained as śūdra or utmost vaiśya, how to make money. That's all. One class of men is being trained how to serve and get some money, another class is being trained how to make money by exploitation. That is capitalist and communist. The communists are the śūdras. They are protesting that "You are exploiting us and getting money. It must stop." That is Communism. Is it not? And the vaiśyas, they are trying to exploit others. Some way or other bring money. So there are these capitalists and śūdra and vaiśya. There is no kṣatriya, there is no brāhmaṇa. Therefore the whole social structure is lost. So we are trying to create some brāhmaṇas. And people if follow our instruction then whole social structure is again revived. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we have got very serious mission. Don't be fickle. When you have come and sacrificed your life for the mission, don't be fickle. Be very steady and capture Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet tightly. You'll never be attacked by māyā. Otherwise as soon as you give up Kṛṣṇa, māyā is ready.

Room Conversation -- August 25, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Just see. If you say that they are animal civilization, that is a great credit for them. It is less than animal civilization. Write all this in papers and everything, all openly. Challenge strongly. First of all, realize, then challenge. (break) Dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. That is the special distinction, that their life, human life must be based on dharma, religion. They have rejected dharma. That is another type of frustration because the so-called leaders of religion, they could not give anything. They also exploited people under religious sentiment. Actually they could not make people religious. They did not know what is religion. And therefore people become, revolted: "What is this nonsense? They are living at our expenditure." We are real religious people. We are enlightening people about religion, life, about God. And these people they simply take money and live peacefully. And drink also. Here they drink wine. In India they drink gāñjā. You have been Rādhā-Dāmodara temple? You have seen that Gosāi?

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: But why must they... The government should know what I am doing. Whole world is appreciating, except my government. They are so unfortunate.

Dr. Singh: It is always the home is the last one always, you know what happens with prophets. They are always respected more abroad.

Mālatī: But the point is, we are..., he is taking from this country the greatest thing and giving. It is not like he is exploiting in some materialistic effort. Rather he is giving the greatest thing from this country.

Prabhupāda: Recently one paper has remarked that "such an important man is going unnoticed." They remarked like that.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: So was this material advancement less than this? And this is description of five thousand years ago. So here in Tokyo Kobe, in Japan there is so much industrials. We find the common man, 99% they are living on matchboxes. That's all. How many men are living in this nice apartment? The common man is living in matchbox. So this is not material advancement. A few people exploiting them in their factory. They are working and they are living in this nice building. But the common man is living in matchbox houses. We traveled these three hundred miles, or four hundred miles. We saw simply 99% matchboxes. What do you think, Bhānu? Is it not?

Interview -- July 20, 1972, Paris:

Frenchman: We have heard from not such a great master who has (indistinct) ...highest spiritual principles, (indistinct) ...like socialism and spiritual communism, he'd like to know exactly what this means.

Prabhupāda: Spiritual communism means that these so-called communists they are concerned with the limited thing. Just like the communists in Russia or China, they are thinking of their country main only. They are not thinking of others. Or they're thinking only they human beings, not of the animals. But our spiritual comm... Communist means that we take care, not only of the human being, but of the animals also. We don't think that the human being is only our own community. We think every living is within the community, center being God. Just like spiritual our communism means... Just like I'm living in this house. I shall have to take care even for one lizard, that is also living entity. I shall have to take care of one rat, one mouse, even one snake, if he's living in one's house. That is spiritual community. The idea is nobody should starve. I have to see whether the leader is also given proper food. Just like people generally save foodstuff from the attack of other animals. But spiritual communism... (break) We ought to make them happy. We want to see everyone is happy. That is our mission. Actually all our students who are presently working with us they are feeling happiness... (indistinct) So everyone will be happy if they take to this movement. We want to see that everyone is happy. That is our mission. We don't want to exploit others.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: The Indians would never be able to compete on the Britishers' platform.

Prabhupāda: No. Under the British rule, from the childhood they are subjected to the propaganda. We read one book, small book, by M. Ghose. The subject matter was England's work in India. That was a compulsory reading book in the schools. And in that book, it was simply stated that "we are uncivilized, but since the Britishers have come, we are becoming civilized. "This is the subject matter of that book, "England's work in India." So everything Indian... The Jawaharlal is the typical example—everything Indian is bad. That was his philosophy. Gandhi was trying to get the Indians back to village. His philosophy was that these capitalists, they are exploiting these poor men, so all these poor men, they should go back to village and be satisfied with the village economy, not to come out. Actually that's a very nice program. But as soon as Gandhi died, or he was killed, the whole program was changed-industrialization and attract the poor man and let them live in wretched condition of city life. Gandhi's policy was to make them happy by agriculture in the village, produce their own cloth, not in the mill but in charka.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Otherwise Bon Mahārāja was deputed, but he wanted to cheat. He thought that "I shall go to England and become. When I come back, I shall advertise myself, 'I have preached in this way and that way and that way' and exploit." Just like Vivekananda. They are all cheaters. Vivekananda had no knowledge even to..., knowledge to give. He was such a rascal. And he went to America and he picked up three women, that's all. That is his achievement. One Sister Nigrita(?), his private secretary, that's all. This is all cheating. If you do not know... They go for wine and women, that's all. All these swamis they are going now these days. Saccidananda, that long-haired man, he is also being sued for something.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: She's a drain inspection report. And in reply to that, one Punjabi barrister, he wrote one book: "Uncle Sam". He pointed out all the blackmailing of American government. So these things are going on. Doṣam icchanti pāmarāḥ. Those who are low class of men, they simply try to find out the faults. Guṇa icchanti saj-janāḥ. And those who are enlightened, they will take the qualities only. Saj-janā guṇa icchanti, doṣam icchanti pāmarāḥ, mukti brāhmaṇā icchanti madhum icchanti bhramarāḥ. Yes. That, there are flies, ordinary flies. They are searching after sores, where is sore in your body. And there are bumblebees, they are searching after where is honey. Similarly, those who are rascals, they'll find out: "Oh, here is a fault. Here is a fault." Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So this is a demoniac quality.

Prabhupāda: Yes. These Britishers should have tried to assimilate the mass Indian culture with their help, administrative help, to broadcast this culture. No. They wanted to exploit India, and prove that "our ruling over India"... Because they have to show something to the outside world...

Brahmānanda: To justify that exploitation.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) They would not allow anyone to enter India to make trade. And that is the cause of two big world wars. This is a... Real cause is India. Because the Germans, they were very intelligent. They were intelligent nation. They wanted to trade with India. So Britishers will not allow them. Actually, Britishers were selling goods, purchasing from Germany and Japan, And when German would go to trade, they will enhance the custom duty very, very large amount. So that was the grudge of the German nation. Two times, they fought with that "Finish these Britishers-shop-keeper's nation."

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Śyāmasundara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is your view of the future, the history, the future history?

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is there, described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The, the governmental power will go to the rascals and thieves, rogues. And their only business will be how to exploit the people. So one side, by not sufficient rain, there will be scarcity of foodstuff, and one side, the government will tax like anything. In this way, people will be so much harassed that they will give up their hearth and home and go to the forest.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This will be done in Kali-yuga. And gradually, there will be no supply of grains. Especially rice, wheat, sugar, milk, these things will be finished. So people will be obliged to take flesh. These are all stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Bhagavān: It's not that one class is feeling exploited by another class.

Prabhupāda: No. No. Helping. Just like when there is some pain in my leg. My brain is working how to cure it. It is helping. It is not exploiting. Similarly, my brain wants to go somewhere to see something. My leg is helping to carry me there. Just like you wanted to see me. Your brain said that: "I must see this man." Your leg carried you. This is cooperation. You have got some capacity. You do it for the benefit of the society so that he may become Kṛṣṇa conscious. This, this plan is perfect socialism. Socialism, socialism means everyone is working for elevation of everyone to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because that is the highest perfection of life.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...innocent child, woman, they're innocent. They should be given full protection. There is no such thing. They're being exploited, keeping them unmarried, and the hotels, and the clubs, and the, what is called? Top... top...

Devotees: Topless.

Prabhupāda: Topless, bottomless. That is going on. It is a regular policy that girls may remain unmarried, and the drunkards and the meat-eaters may take advantage of the prostitution. This is the policy. They have no sympathy. So many hundreds and thousands of innocent girls, they're like children. And they're exposed to prostitution. They have no shelter. Now these girls who are with us, they're feeling some shelter, you see?

Morning Walk -- December 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What they will understand, rāsa-līlā?

Guest (1): It has been misrepresented.

Prabhupāda: Misrepresented. They will think that it is ordinary, just like young boy, young girls, they mix together.

Guest (1): And that rāsa-līlā is also not taken in that moral sense. It is more of a sex exploitation. That is how they...

Prabhupāda: No. Why one should go to the rāsa-līlā? It is in the Tenth Canto. And in the thirty-fifth chapter. So what is the purpose?

Guest (1): No. That is being misrepresented. That has also been taken as an enjoyment.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Why do you draw water? Why you draw water from other source? If you have got water? If you haven't got water, that's all right. Is that sufficient?

Sudāmā: No.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Satsvarūpa: Their idea of the arrangement is that everything is meant for man, for his exploitation and enjoyment.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Satsvarūpa: Everything is meant for man's, he's the chief living entity. That's their understanding of the arrangement. The tree may have to do this, but we can drink it another way.

Bali-mardana: Man uses his intelligence.

Prabhupāda: That means there is some superior supervision that "You must do like that. He must do like that." You call it nature. We accept that. We also say... Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa says, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ: (BG 3.27) "Everything is being done by the direction of prakṛti, nature." So nature is superior than you. You have to accept. Because you are being directed by nature.

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So we can boldly say on the strength of Vedic literature that all these attempts are childish and those who are attempting, they're all fools and rascals. That's all. Now they're silent about moon expedition. They're trying to go to Venus. What happened to moon, moon planet?

Siddha-svarūpānanda: Yeah right.

Prabhupāda: Another diversion. That's all.

Siddha-svarūpānanda: Just wasting money and time.

Prabhupāda: Another diversion of attention so that they can exploit public money in that way. And the public is also fooled that they believe all this nonsense.

Viṣṇujana: In the United States, Prabhupāda, the rocks that they brought back from the moon are being displayed in all the different cities. They have little small pieces of the rocks from the moon. And people stand in long lines...

Prabhupāda: Just see...

Viṣṇujana: ...to come and see these little pieces of rock.

Prabhupāda: ...how much rascal you are.

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Devotee: They don't pray God, who has made all of this.

Prabhupāda: No, that one, I mean to say, rogue, thief, came to a bank manager. Somewhere in Western countries. And he brought some lotions. So he said that "I shall mix up these lotions. Immediately the whole bank will be blown up." So he became afraid because the scientists do that. So... "So you give me check immediately, two hundred millions or something, otherwise I'll mix it." So he gave him that check. And... Because they were... "It is time bomb. If you call police or arrest me within this time, then it will blown up." So in this way, he took away the check. And after sometimes, he phoned to the police, "This is the situation. Come and help us. Here is a time bomb on my table." So police came. They also took it very carefully in the chemical laboratory. And in the chemical lab, they were also afraid. Then they saw it is glycerin. That's all. Such fools are there. You see. It is simply exploiting the innocent public of their money, hard-earned money. That's all. And if you go to such foundation that "Give us some money for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, printing these books," "No, no. We are not interested in religion. We are for scientific improvement, glycerin."

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...it will be constituted, that. Their business will be to exploit the poor citizens. And they will be embarrassed and harassed so much: by one side, no sufficient rain, and therefore scarcity of food, and the other side, taxation by the government. In this way, the people will be so much harassed that they'll give up their home and go to the forest. Very piti... Unless they take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they'll not be saved. The varṇāśrama college has to be established immediately. Everywhere, wherever we have got our center, a varṇāśrama college should be established to train four divisions: one class, brāhmaṇa; one class, kṣatriya; one class, vaiśya; and one class, śūdra. But everyone will be elevated to the spiritual platform by the spiritual activities which we have prescribed. There is no inconvenience, even for the śūdras.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is philosophy. Not that "Because I am friend, I will do, and you will sleep and get dysentery." No. You have to work. Everything is already arranged, but you must work. That is wanted. Otherwise, why Arjuna was induced to fight. Kṛṣṇa has already arranged. And Arjuna also: "Yes." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). "Whatever you say..." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break) ...politician, Balavanta? He's not here. So let him preach that "We shall, if you take our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, there will be no unemployment." He can at least give this manifesto to the..., "There will be no more unemployment." People will be very nice, very glad to hear. Now this machine, this machine nonsense means unemployment. One machine will work for hundred men. So hundred men becomes unemployed, and one technician, he gets all the salaries. To work on the computer, com...

Devotee: Computer, yes.

Prabhupāda: Machine. And he's very expert. He'll take three thousand dollars. And others will be unemployed. This is going on. And they are thinking: "Advancement of civilization." Advancement of civilization means "Exploit others and you become happy." This is advancement of civilization. "Others may die for such, out of starvation, and one man takes all the money and spends it for wine and women and motor car." That's all. This is advancement of civilization. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. This is Vedic civilization. "Let everyone be happy."

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Guest (1): United States.

Prabhupāda: United States. Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma... (break)

Dr. Patel: ...over-clever or whatever you may call, but the American would be outwitted by a Gujarati baniya if he has got the same money, same, I mean, freedom of business and same facility to work. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the plan is to drive away the Gujaratis from Africa. (laughter) Yes. The Britishers are afraid. The Britishers are afraid that if the Indians, they are allowed to remain here, they will not be able to exploit the Africans.

Dr. Patel: All Indians and all Gujarati baniyas who settled in Africa, one and all are multi-millionaires.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...also.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: He gives intelligence that, dadami buddhi-yogam.

Prabhupāda: Ah. And what kind of buddhi-yoga?

Dr. Patel: "By which you can reach Me."

Prabhupāda: Yes. By which he can go back to home, back to Godhead. That kind of buddhi-yoga. Not this buddhi-yoga, how to exploit the whole world and become Hiranyakasipu.

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1974, Hyderabad:

Akṣayānanda: They get shot. The police come and shoot them.

Prabhupāda: That's all. And tax you and get fat salary. That's all. This is government. They will degrade you and take your money and enjoy themselves. That's all. (break) ...revolution in India. Yes. Because people are hungry. There is no food. A very great revolution. So long they were under Vedic culture, they were suffering. Suffering in this way-tolerating. Now that culture is gone. Now they will be violent. Just like in other countries. If you pinch somebody on and on, there will be a violent protest. In the beginning you may tolerate. But if you go on pinching, pinching, pinching, how long you will tolerate? This is India's condition. Britishers, when they were ruling, had some responsibility. Although they were exploiting, but they were arranging for sufficient food and other things. But these people are irresponsib..., simply personal. "Whatever money I can get, that's all." This is going on. All these so-called ministers, they come to the post for taking money, as much as possible. (break) It must have been belonging to some Nawab, Nizam. It is aristocratic building, not ordinary building.

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 25, 1974, Rome:

Bhagavān: The easiest way to manage, then, is to have everything more or less in small villages.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that was Gandhi's philosophy, village organization. These people, they are attracting villagers to work in the factory, and they are exploiting them. Instead of producing food, they are attracted by so-called high salaries, to the factory, and they are producing bolts and nuts, motor parts. But food is produced somewhere else. But the food producers, they are working in the factory. Therefore scarcity of foodstuff. But this factory owner, he has got more money. He doesn't care. The poor public, they are suffering. Our philosophy is that you produce your food anywhere. You stay, and keep cows, take milk, produce vegetables, food grains, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is our philosophy. Make your life successful. By becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, you become free from all these troubles of material condition. This is our education. Don't be after these motorcars, television, and all nonsense things, sporting, wine, women. Don't be after these. Simply eat sufficiently, keep your health nicely, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, realize Kṛṣṇa, and go back to home. This is our philosophy.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, that is kṣatriya. If one does not obey the social structure, he must be forced. That is the idea of slaves. The śūdras who do not work properly, he must be forced. Nobody should remain unemployed. The śūdras are inclined. If he has got something to eat, he will not work. You see? Then again he will work when his need, eating. This is śūdra mentality.

Bhagavān: So they have to be kept employed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They have to be... They should not possess, so that they will work always.

Yogeśvara: Yeah, but that was exactly the situation that sparked the Communist revolution. When the workers felt themselves exploited, then they revolted.

Prabhupāda: No, workers, what is that? Exploited?

Yogeśvara: Yes, when the śūdras were seeing that, "Oh, these men, they are keeping us as slaves, and they are making us work just for our food," then they revolted.

Prabhupāda: No, no. You should keep them such nicely and friendly way, they will never think like that. They will think that you are giving him food and shelter, and you are taking care, giving them protection to their family. Then they will be happy. Then they are happy. When you give them all protection, then they will be happy. Now... Just like in Japan. The industrialists give all men. They give food. They give education. They give shelter. So they work very happily.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:

Yogeśvara: Yeah, that's the difference. The Communists, they were thinking themselves exploited. Actually they were fearful because they were thinking they would not get enough to eat.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, not only that. The Communists... Everyone has got different propensity. And I have seen in Moscow. You cannot get foodstuff to your selection. That is forced. If I go to the market, I can purchase to my taste, to my selection. But if I have to purchase from the government store whatever nonsense thing they will supply, I will have to accept. Why? I want to eat something today. Why I will be forced to eat something else?

Bhagavān: That's not good?

Prabhupāda: That's not good.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Yogeśvara: The manager of a large factory comes to us and says, "Well, here is my problem. My workers are striking for higher pay and no one is satisfied So what can I do?"

Prabhupāda: Yes, you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Yogeśvara: Well, he wants to know, "How can I apply that in my factory?"

Prabhupāda: You give us the in charge, make us in charge of the factory, we shall do it, and see how we can deal. You can do it. We shall introduce immediately kīrtana and give them prasādam. It will be solved. And give them lecture and philosophy. We can take. Let us have the charge. Then see how we can do. Or you follow our instruction. But that you will not. You want to exploit these poor fellows, and you are coming to us for solution. You first of all give up the spirit of exploiting. Then it will be solved. You have come to take our advice how to exploit them.

Yogeśvara: So he would ask, "Do I have to close my factory?"

Prabhupāda: No, we shall run on the factory. You give us in charge. We don't want anything from you. Let us manage. I can manage. Just organize saṅkīrtana. It will be solved. Now, these factory men works and goes home. So if you say that "You come early in the morning and you take prasādam here and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa half an hour," they will immediately agree. Immediately agree. And give them good prasādam and have chanting for one hour. They will be all submissive. Is it not? Will they not agree? At least, they will see that "We haven't got to spend money for our food at home. We shall get nice food here. Let us chant. What is the harm?" And as soon as he chants, he becomes a gentleman. That's all.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Yogeśvara: So in other words the workers are unsatisfied because they see that the managers are exploiting them, but if they see the managers are giving the money to Kṛṣṇa, they will feel satisfied.

Prabhupāda: Yes, and they will also give. Kṛṣṇa becomes the proprietor. Everyone is satisfied.

Dhanañjaya: Jaya. This is varṇāśrama institution.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is above varṇāśrama. It is above varṇāśrama. Varṇāśrama there is give and take, but here there is no give and... Here is simply give, no take. That is above varṇāśrama.

Dhanañjaya: So the workers are giving to the devotees and the devotees are giving to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They become devotee, they will give to Kṛṣṇa. You also become devotees. Not that they become devotee and you exploit them very nicely. That is not.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Dhanañjaya: So everyone in the material world is caught up with the intelligence generated by the brain.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they are bahir-artha-māninaḥ, they are thinking that this is all. A group of men is coming, and they are exploiting the resources, material world. Just like this building. It is nothing but exploiting the resources. Making brick from the earth or stone or iron. And they pile up.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:

Nitāi: So our business is to convince them that they can't be happy in the material world?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That they have got experience. Therefore daily they are founding so many parties, manufacturing so many means and plans and this and that, but they are not happy. But they are so fool, great fool, that in spite of being repeatedly baffled, still, punaḥ punaś carv..., the same thing, under different form. What is the difference between these rascal communists and capitalists? After all, they are animals. How they can make things, better arrangement? That is not possible. The only thing... This man will say, "Exploit others," and other man shall, "Give food to the others." What is there? Give food to the others or exploit—the same animal propensity. Where is the advancement? The capitalists are thinking, "Exploit others." The same thing, like animals. This dog, as soon as he saw the shadow of his own body with the food, he thought that "Let me capture that food." This is exploitation. And another will say "No, first of all give food." So they are fighting like this. So everyone's aim is that we shall remain within this material world and happy. Therefore gṛha-vratānām.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Another, their theory is that only on this planet there is living entities... (break) If there is sufficient rain in the desert, it will be also hot. (break) ...tells us in the śāstras how to live comfortably and advance in spiritual life. And they should give advice to others. That is the business of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau tri-bhuvane mānyau śaraṇyākarau. This is the description of the Gosvāmīs. They are well versed in all different types of Vedic scriptures just to establish a peaceful society sad-dharma, very nice gentleman, peaceful society. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau, for the benefit of the whole human society. Therefore they are honored all over the world. This is gosvāmī business, not to exploit (indistinct) live like irresponsible man, eat, drink, be merry and enjoy.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: They're also fools. Minority fools. They're minority fools.

Yogeśvara: Minority fools?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because he's thinking, "I am Irishman."

Yogeśvara: Yes, but their point is that "Even if we are spirit soul, we are still being exploited because we are a small number. So we must band together to protect ourselves."

Prabhupāda: You are exploited always. Why do you blame this man or that man? You are being exploited by māyā. Where is your position of freedom?

Yogeśvara: They say, "Well, māyā we cannot fight, but we can fight the government."

Prabhupāda: Why should you fight? If you cannot... Suppose you cannot... Can you fight with death? Māyā, māyā has imposed upon you death. So fight with māyā, that there will be no death. That you cannot do. So you are always, what is called, defeated. That is your position. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So best thing is surrender to Kṛṣṇa for protection. That is wanted. We don't think, "minority."

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: What is the definition of a cheat?

Prabhupāda: Cheat means that I am exploiting you. I am saying that I am creating you a religious, but you are most sinful. I am creating a most sinful. That is cheating.

Guru-kṛpa: Giving something under false pretensions.

Prabhupāda: That's all. You are taking something else while thinking something else. That is cheating. Actually, we see the so-called religious system... Religion means to become lover of God. But who is lover of God? Do not know what is God, and what to speak of love Him. They do not know, have no clear conception of God even.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The last chapter is entitled "Intellectual Amalgam, Psycho-social Implications." That will be Rūpānuga...

Prabhupāda: What is it?

Rūpānuga: It was their idea. In a book like this there has to be some social conclusion as to the effects of such atheistic theories.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the people are being misguided. That we want to stop. They have got this human form of body, that is an opportunity to understand himself and God and act accordingly. Now they are being misled. It is a social disservice. Cheating. In the name of scientist, they are exploiting this innocent person, taking their money and spoiling it without any good result.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa said that "I am in everyone's heart." Sarvasya. Sarvasya ca aham hṛdi. Hṛdi means the heart. Sanniviṣṭaḥ: "I am there." So He is witnessing everything. So Britishers would have been... They were accepted by the Indians very nicely. People liked, because after the Mohammedan period, when the Britishers came, they did something which was very, very nice for the Indians, and the Indians, they liked them very much. Later on, they became too much greedy. For their own men they wanted to sacrifice everything Indian. So that Jalianwala-bagh. Then the Gandhi came and took this vow that "The Britishers must go, quit India." So Britishers got a very good opportunity for world unity under British Empire. But their only policy was that to exploit others and enrich London. That was their bad policy, yes. They should have ruled for the benefit of the people. Then British rule was very nice.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Ambassador: If they hadn't had such a guilty conscience themselves...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ambassador: ...they wouldn't have left easily.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, there was no need. Every country requires good government. So if somebody gives good government and keeps the people nice, happy, and people hasn't got any interest that the... Now they have made like that. Formerly, at least in India, they didn't care whether it is being ruled by the Mohammedans or by the Englishmen or foreign... They wanted peaceful life, that's all. So the Mohammedans, they made their home in India, the Moguls. They were not exploiting India and taking the money outside. Although the Moguls were very luxurious, but they were spending money in India, India's money in India. And, of course, they accuse, the Mohammedan government was very bad. But I think if it was so bad, how they could rule over India for eight hundred years? And in those days Indians were in their own culture. They did not lose their culture, Hindu culture. The Britishers peacefully killed the Hindu culture, Vedic culture, yes.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Devotee: So much anxiety and so much political dealings.

Prabhupāda: All demon.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All very fatty.

Prabhupāda: They, they... the other's money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The peo... I didn't see one village man who was fatty, not one.

Prabhupāda: Not one. They're extracting money from them, making them intoxicated and exploiting. This is the fault. Very precarious condition. (break) So if you can make one example (break) India, that spot, very good example, then we can capture the whole India. Simply, we have got enough land. Give them enough food. Make them stout and strong, both the animal and man. And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Let them hear. Everything will be all right. Everything will be ideal.

Devotee: No one can object either.

Prabhupāda: No. (chuckles)

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Make the whole field green, (break) sumptuously, let the animals eat, let the man eat. They feel satisfaction and they (break) He knows some people, they are being exploited, animals are being exploited by these rogues, fat, big, big, fat rogues. Discovering some nonsense, scientific means and people are starving. There is no food. And they're busy in discovering scientific method.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: But at present the caste system in India isn't actually representative of the original varṇāśrama dharma system. The original system was a cooperation, organized cooperation between four kinds of men which are naturally there in society. Just like now we can see that some people are working as laborers, some people are working as merchants, and some people politicians and lawyers, some are teachers. Originally they were organized so that the priests, or priestly order, were benefiting everyone by their teaching. And so that they could fully concentrate on that, they were not engaged in working for food and money. But what happened in this age, was that the higher caste became fallen, and they misused their high position, and instead of helping everyone by their teaching, they misused the position, or exploited the position, simply for selfish ends, so there became a conflict between the...

Prabhupāda: Vested interest.

Amogha: Vested interest. Yes. So then there was conflict between the lower and the higher and it broke down. So what we're teaching is not actually the caste system as it is now or it was recently, but...

Prabhupāda: You have also caste system in the Western countries. You are not without caste system. There is a priestly class. So there are politicians, there are industrialists, merchants, and ordinary laborer. Where is...? How you can say there is no caste system in your country?

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Such a huge city, if there is no money, they will tax those who are living there more and more. That is the only alternative. If you want actually peaceful life, then produce your own necessities of life and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and read these books. This is the only solution. There is no other solution. What is the use of running fifty miles by car to go to one's office and sit down in the office and make plan how to exploit others? This way? This is the business:" Make some plan, bluff people, advertisement, and money will come." This is their business. They are not giving anything, simply bluffing. Just like crossword. They are engaged in making solution. You know that, crossword?

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Devotee (1): It's a lot of traffic.

Prabhupāda: Oh. What factories they have got?

Devotee (1): Big, big steel factories.

Prabhupāda: Steel factory.

Devotee (1): Yes. Also aluminium factories.

Prabhupāda: Aluminium. And still, there is problem. That man said?

Amogha: Yes. He said the bauxite mineral, the multinational or international companies are exploiting, interested in exploiting the bauxite minerals to make much aluminium.

Prabhupāda: Now aluminium is in great demand for manufacturing airplane. They are all manufactured from aluminium. (someone shouts in distance) What does he say?

Morning Walk -- May 17, 1975, Perth:

Śrutakīrti: He said, "irreparable damage." They'll never be able to again restore what they've taken.

Paramahaṁsa: So he's very perplexed by the future, say, a hundred years from now, what will happen if we go on at the rate we're going, taking natural resources.

Prabhupāda: Just like they are taking petrol. This is natural resources. They are taking continually.

Paramahaṁsa: But he says the CSIRO, most of the people there are involved in researching how to exploit the natural resources more. So he's a little bit different because he's trying to present a clear warning that this is happening. But then again he doesn't have any potency to stop it. It seemed that when you were speaking to him he related bodily consciousness with the selfishness of the industrialists when they're exploiting natural resources like that.

Prabhupāda: They are doing so many things. They are killing cows for their own benefit. So many animals they are killing. Birds.

Radio Interview -- May 25, 1975, Fiji:

Interviewer: Coming back to this question of the western type of civilization, do you feel that the success of the movement in the western society is an indication of the need being felt by the western man that has been lacking in spiritual ideologies?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. But the thing is that they are very intelligent. There is no doubt about it. Materially, they are always advanced. Materially, when they are manufacturing machine of the airship, in India we are manufacturing sewing machine or cycle. I have seen in the World Fair the Indians were very proud of manufacturing cycle and sewing machine, whereas the Americans and Europeans, they were showing the how subtle machine of this jet plane are there. So materially, they are advanced. There is no doubt about it. Hundred years. But spiritually they are not. Therefore, I am an Indian, poor Indian—they are coming to me. Because they understand that spiritually... Not only me, any swami who go, they crowd to him, "If there is something spiritual?" Unfortunately, the other swamis, they go to exploit them, to cheat them. They do not... Neither they do know what is spiritual life; neither they could give them. For example, for the last two..., hundred years or more than that the swamis are going; not a single person was a Kṛṣṇa devotee in the history in the western countries.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Devotee: Someone was arguing with me that if, like Russia and America both are enemies, if Russia achieves something great like going to the moon, America will immediately try to expose it. But on the contrary, America accepted all those things. And because...

Prabhupāda: Then there is also... Both of them are thieves, they have made agreement, "Don't expose me. I'll not expose you."

Devotee: So that is their agree... But they are enemies...

Prabhupāda: No, no, enemies, they are not enemies. They are simply rogues and thieves, that's all.

Paramahaṁsa: Because if they tried to expose Russia, they would also expose themselves.

Siddha-svarūpa: It's like these so many gurus. They're not actually enemies. They're actually individually working to exploit the people. And if they get in each other's way, if one person tries to take the other person's followers, then there's some clash or something. But as long they can leave each other alone and don't fight and work independently, exploiting, then they live peacefully.

Bali-mardana: Honor among thieves.

Prabhupāda: "Thief, thief, cousin brother." Cora cora, pasura bhai. So far our position is that we are not concerned with anything with this universe. We are concerned with Kṛṣṇaloka. So whatever one may say, one other may say, we don't care for that. We are not going to the moon planet, Jupiter(?) planet.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: ...the animals. Take, for example, the cows. If the master is Kṛṣṇa conscious they are not killed. And if the master is a rogue, they are killed. They have no knowledge how to protect themself. They take shelter of a master. So if the master is good, then their life is safe. And if the master is rogue, then they are killed. So it requires the leader. Formerly the kings were saintly, rājarṣi. Therefore there was peace. You cannot expect the mass of people very intelligent. That is not possible. They are generally in darkness. They believe that "Somebody, this man, will give us protection." But the man is treacherous. He sits down on the post of giving protection, but he kills. This is going on. Therefore if the leaders become nice, Kṛṣṇa conscious, then everything will be all right. (break) These rogues, by force, by device, they all occupy the government post. Formerly, Vedic, the king was trained up very nicely by the brāhmaṇas, guided by the brāhmaṇas, and they would do nicely. (break) ...now thousands of kings. The president, the secretary, the minister, this senator, everyone is king. Because everyone is in the business of exploitation. That's all. Formerly there was one king. Now, in the name of democracy, there are thousands of kings. And the poor citizens, they have to satisfy all of them.

Morning Walks -- June 18-19, 1975, Honolulu:

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. Simply they have to harvest, time, maybe two hours a day. Farming or being in the countryside also seems to be, in itself working in the countryside rather than in a factory, seems to be more conducive for thinking, even while they're working.

Prabhupāda: No, it is a fact. This factory working is most demonic. It is not required at all. For the interest of a few persons this device has been invented. Therefore the Communist movement is there. And the China has found the Communistic movement in Russia is defective because although it is Communistic, the whole idea of exploitation by the powerful is there.

Morning Walks -- June 18-19, 1975, Honolulu:

Siddha-svarūpa: Is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita widely available in India?

Prabhupāda: That is not very important thing. It has nothing to do with spiritual..., but moral instruction.

Siddha-svarūpa: For kṣatriyas?

Prabhupāda: No, for everyone. You can get from India, Canakya Paṇḍita. It is called Cāṇakya-śloka, "Verses composed by Canakya," Cāṇakya-śloka. (break) ...western country, they have come to a stage in which by nature they are now seeking after some spiritual importance. And that is available in India. But these rascals, they are taking advantage of it and exploiting, this Guru Mahārāja, these yogis, these... But these people, western people, they are searching after this. So it is our duty especially to give them the right thing. They are searching after, and they are taking advantage of it and exploiting them.

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1975, Denver:

Brahmānanda: Actually, according to law, if someone is in trouble, if he is being attacked by someone, and someone sees this and does not do anything to help him, he can be prosecuted.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: It is his obligation to help someone in trouble.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is humanity. Not that "This man is going to hell. Let him go to hell. I am happy. That's all." That is not humanity. Paropakāra. That is Vedic civilization, paropakāra, not to exploit others.

Devotee (1): A lot of times, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they say that we are just escaping material life. We're not having jobs...

Prabhupāda: How we are escaping?

Devotee (1): A lot of times they say that we don't have jobs and that we should work for...

Prabhupāda: So why shall I... A rich man, does he work? We are rich men. We don't work. You rascal, you have no money. You work. We are rich men. Why shall I work? Any rich man you see, he is not working. He is escaping? What is that? Any rich man who has got money, he is not working. He is engaging all fools and rascals in the factory. So is that, is he escaping?

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Jagadīśa: These days the men are doing that also more and more, dressing up so fancy and getting their pictures in the magazines.

Prabhupāda: Of women?

Jagadīśa: Men also. Nowadays men are also doing that, thinking that it's so important to dress in fancy clothes.

Prabhupāda: No, dress, that's all right. But generally they present woman's picture.

Brahmānanda: Yes, they protest that this shows that woman is being exploited.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: Actually, they are just feeling frustrated because it is a fact that woman has been exploited by the men. So now they want to counteract this.

Prabhupāda: No, we don't say that woman should be exploited by men. We say the man should be responsible and give protection to woman.

Brahmānanda: But they feel so angry from the exploitation that they cannot accept that actually a man could protect them.

Prabhupāda: That is bad experience. But the ideal is different. Ideal is that man must be first-class and he must be responsible to take care of the woman, and she should be given all protection, all necessities. That is the duty of man. Just like father takes the charge of his daughter, similarly, husband should take charge of the woman. And similarly, elderly sons also took charge of the woman. The father never exploits the daughter. He gives all protection. That is the duty of the husband also. When she is grown up, she cannot remain under the protection of father. She is given, therefore, to a suitable boy to take charge. But the charge is the same, to give protection, all comforts. And because there is no first-class man to take charge of the woman, they are declaring independence. All the men are doing that. They keep girlfriend, make her pregnant, and go away, goes away.

Brahmānanda: In that sense we can say that the women are inferior, but the men also, they are not first-class.

Prabhupāda: That we also said, that there is no first-class men. So if there is first-class man, then whole question is solved.

Jagadīśa: The men are behaving just like dogs.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Brahmānanda: So that is something that the reporters did not understand. This point was not discussed very fully, that actually we don't, we are not unkind to women, we are not exploiting them as others do because one who is in the spiritual life he feels he is equal to... Men, women does not matter.

Prabhupāda: So you can write that spiritually, there is no such distinction. Spiritually, Kṛṣṇa says that "Although there is distinction in the material field, low and high, but one who takes shelter of Me..." Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ, striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So there is no freedom; still, they think that they have freedom. That means under some plea, the men are cheating the women, that's all. So in the name of independence, they have agreed to be cheated by another class. This is the situation.

Sandy Nixon: In spite of that, can women know Kṛṣṇa as...

Prabhupāda: We have no such distinction.

Sandy Nixon: No distinction...

Prabhupāda: We give Kṛṣṇa consciousness both to the woman and man equally. We do not make any such distinction. But to protect them from this exploitation by man, we teach something, that "You do like this. You do like that. You be married. Be settled up. Don't wander independently." We teach them like that. But so far Kṛṣṇa consciousness is concerned, we equally distribute. There is no such thing that "Oh, you are woman, less intelligent or more intelligent. Therefore you cannot come." We don't say that. We welcome women, men, poor, rich, everyone, because in that platform equality.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So this instruction is strīṣu duṣṭāsu: "When women become polluted, there is unwanted population." That is coming all over the world, the hippies. Therefore the first thing is how to train up women not to become polluted. This is the way of... In the modern society they have given women freedom. That I have already explained. In the name of freedom of woman, they are being exploited. Everything is there: social, religious, political, cultural, educational. We have to accept that course. Then everything will be all right. If you don't accept, then you have to suffer problems. It is not meant for a particular class of men or particular country, it is meant for the whole human society. Therefore, this purification of the society at the present, fallen condition is very, very difficult to revive. Because people are so fallen, it is almost impossible. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended that "You all together chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and everything will be done nicely."

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Bahulāśva: How to live in peace. How to live, peaceful society.

Prabhupāda: And fall down from the tower? (laughter)

Dharmādhyakṣa: That is part of the study, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's called alienation, why people are alienated.

Prabhupāda: Now it is very peaceful, fall down and finish. That's all. Suicide.

Dharmādhyakṣa: The reason they say that people are committing suicide is there is not enough meaning in life, and there's not enough meaning in life because the capitalists are exploiting all the people and making people work very, very hard.

Prabhupāda: But they have meaning, life. You have no meaning, but they have meaning. Some section have meaning. They are accusing capitalist. So they have meaning. Why you say there is no meaning? You have no meaning. You have no money—you have no meaning. (laughter)

Dharmādhyakṣa: That is their feeling, that if everyone had equal...

Prabhupāda: No, therefore you cannot say life has no meaning. You have no meaning, but others may have. You cannot say, generalization, that life has no meaning.

Morning Walk -- July 29, 1975, Dallas:

Prabhupāda: ...of man, why? Why this movement?

Jagadīśa: Because the men are exploiting them.

Prabhupāda: That is the fact. They are dissatisfied with the treatment of man. The grievance is that they do not get husband, home, children, like loitering on the street. That is their aspiration: they want good home, good husband, good children. That they are not getting.

Morning Walk -- August 7, 1975, Toronto:

Viśvakarma: ...Ontario, Śrīla Prabhupāda, this is known as the fruit belt, in this area. But now they are ripping up all the orchards and putting in factories.

Prabhupāda: Whatever they do, they do it for factories so that people may be exploited very easily.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1975, Paris:

Yogeśvara: There is one German historian named Frederick Engels.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he is another foolish. (laughter) I can...

Yogeśvara: He wrote against Vedic culture by saying that even the brāhmaṇas of Vedic culture were not responsible because the culture failed. It ended at a certain period in history. It was simply exploitation of the workers under the guise of religion. That was his argument.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: That was not the fault of the

Prabhupāda: The argument of foolish man—who is caring? Vedic culture when finished?

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1975, Bombay:

Lalitā: (Bengali) She is very cunning.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) She is spiritually inclined. She goes to so many spiritual men, but they cannot give her guidance. That means she has some inclination. That I can understand. Just like these for..., American boys, they are after spiritual enlightenment and all the swamis and yogis who went there simply exploited them because they have no knowledge, neither they are prepared to take knowledge from the authority, Kṛṣṇa. That is their defect. That is their defect.

Morning Walk -- September 4, 1975, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: Adolf Hitler adopted the idea of Aryan, but his criteria for Aryan was one who had blond hair and blue eyes.

Prabhupāda: That is bodily. (chuckles) That is another foolishness. Just like we have dress. So this dress of sannyāsī is not all. I must be real sannyāsī in knowledge, in education, in behavior, not that... Hitler studies by the dress. That is the foolishness. It is not by the dress, but by the quality. Dress is also required. As I am sannyāsī, I cannot dress otherwise. That is also essential. But if one judges, "Here is a sannyāsī," then he'll misled. That is being done. People are being exploited in the dress of a sannyāsī, although actually he is not sannyāsa. That is also stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. "A sannyāsī or a brāhmaṇa will be accepted by the outward feature." If somebody has got a thread only, two paisa worth, he becomes a brāhmaṇa. And when one takes a daṇḍa, he becomes a sannyāsī. This will be the identification in the Kali-yuga.

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Cyavana: The capitalists are so anxious for money that they exploit this tendency of the living entity to enjoy by tempting him. Every year they create some new way to entice him.

Prabhupāda: And taxation. And the taxation is divided among them. The tax is meant for public welfare. Instead of public welfare, they divide it amongst themselves and enjoy wine, women, motorcar and flesh. That's all. This is going on. All this income tax-plundering process. This income tax means a plan how to take away everything from the actually earning members of the society. That is income tax. And that is divided amongst administrators. That's all.

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: From where?

Prabhupāda: Sheffield.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, England.

Prabhupāda: England. So everything Indian required, they would supply, and they would govern and they would exploit. Therefore they became so rich—simply by exploiting India. And Indian soldiers, they expanded empire-Africa, Burma. That's all, all Indian exploitation, Indian men, money, and exploitation. As soon as they lost India, they lost whole empire.

Cyavana: Now they are also suffering.

Prabhupāda: Eh? That... That must be. They will be suffering more and more. They will be beggars. They have done so much sinful activities for expanding their empire. Now they will have to become beggars. And within two hundred years, everything finished. They started their exploitation from seventeenth, eighteenth century. And in the twentieth century, everything finished. The French people and the English people... This is also one of the examples. Both the nations came here to exploit. That was the competition in... The French people and the English people, they would go for colonization, fight, and establi... America was also that, Canada, everywhere. But because they were their own men, they were given dominion status. Almost free.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Greedy. Very greedy.

Brahmānanda: At one time all of Africa was controlled by the European nations. Completely.

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I think that we must all be kṛpa-siddhi, because by your mercy you have lifted us out of hellish conditions of life.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's mercy. You have accepted Kṛṣṇa's mercy. This is the... (break) This empirical policy was very good, provided it would have been done for Kṛṣṇa. Then they could unite the whole world.

Brahmānanda: They had very good managing talent.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. But the whole thing was planned for their own sense gratification.

Brahmānanda: Exploitation.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: If we ever had any kind of power like that and tried to do something like that, they would accuse that this is like the Crusades.

Prabhupāda: Now, Crusades, even... If they could expand the ideas of Christian, love of Godhead, that was nice. But that was not the purpose. It is exploitation.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even by force?

Prabhupāda: Yes. By force if you give some good medicine, that is good for him. In my childhood I would not take medicine. Exactly like this, now also. (laughter) So I was given medicine by force in the spoon. Two men will catch me and my mother take me on the lap and then force and I shall take. I never agreed to take any medicine.

Harikeśa: Should we do that now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Then you'll kill me.

Harikeśa: You would not go to school either.

Prabhupāda: I don't like... Yes.

Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:

Harikeśa: They made those nice buildings in Delhi, too.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes, and everything good. Simply heart was not very good.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Heart.

Prabhupāda: "Only for Englishmen," "Only for Englishmen." Still that policy is going on here. That is not good. When one takes shelter of you, you must give him proper protection. That liberality is not there.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They would make the people dependent upon them and then exploit them, yes?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the fault. Exploitation was their policy. Whole European, the France, Holland—go some other country and exploit. They were doing the same thing in America also. Therefore America rebelled. Washington was Englishman. Still, he rebelled. He separated. Independent. A small country and bring money from the whole world—this is their bad policy.

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: No. Meditation means this dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā, mind saturated with God consciousness and thinking of God. But if you do not know God, then where is the meditation?

Faill: So it's a long...

Prabhupāda: No, it is very nice, but at the present moment in the name of meditation, simply cheating and bluffing going on. They do not know what is the subject matter of meditation. Besides that, in this age, mind is so agitated that you cannot concentrate. I have seen the so-called meditation. They are regularly sleeping and snoring. They do not know. Yes. This is going on. So unfortunately, in the name of God consciousness or this self-realization, so many not standardized methods are being presented by the so-called bluffers without any reference to the authoritative books and knowledge, Vedic knowledge. It is another type of exploitation.

Morning Walk -- October 9, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Mind is working of the fish. He knows where is his enemy, where to go. They have got better mind. They can understand from two miles that some enemy is coming. They take care.

Devotee (4): Fish.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The mind is so strong. Every fish in the water, although they are expert, they are always in danger. They are always afraid of being eaten by bigger fish. Nūnaṁ mahatāṁ tatra. The world is that the stronger is exploiting the weaker. Nūnaṁ mahatāṁ tatra jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. Still, they are expert.

Indian man: Is it possible to visit other planets?

Prabhupāda: You have to be expert. Not by this machine.

Indian man: No. Astral traveling.

Prabhupāda: You have to prepare yourself.

Morning Walk -- October 9, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's a very reasonable proposition because going to the moon, they simply come back with some rocks. Rocks they can get on the earth also.

Prabhupāda: They are all nonsense. Some sand and some rocks, and we have to believe they have gone to. The fools may believe, but we cannot believe. We have got other information. Why shall I believe?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So all of the politicians are taking the money and they're saying that...

Prabhupāda: That's all. That's all. Exploiting, that's all. This is their business. Just like Pakistan politicians, as soon as they cannot supply food, they declare war with India. The attention is diverted. Here also we have seen in the last war. When no man was joining, so in India, they created artificial famine. So for want of food they joined military. The government created a situation, purchased all the food grains and stocked. And when the price is very high the government opened controlled shop at high price. The people had no money; therefore they were obliged to join military. These polit..., demons, they are so dangerous, simply to keep their position they are doing all nefarious activities. Simply there is... Because they don't believe in the next birth, they are not afraid of sinful activities. They can do anything, "Whatever I like. There is no... This life is finished." That is the whole philosophy of the modern educated man, "There is no life." Big, big professors, they say like that, "There is no life after death."

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sati rite.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That "Later on, after the death of husband in some places the wife was forced to go to the fire, so the Britishers stopped it. And they introduced railway for going to the pilgrims and so many, and they constructed bridges to make easy to go from one country to another." And people took it very seriously, that British government is very nice. And they were publishing in outside country that "India is uncivilized. We are making them civilized. And as soon as they are civilized, then we hand over the charge to them. That is our noble mission." And they were exploiting. All raw materials was being taken away and the necessities of India, especially cloth, was being supplied. And the local weavers, their hands cut off. So many thing they, tainting… And everything bad. Just like Jawaharlal Nehru. He became a first-class victim.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: For drawing raw materials from villages and bring it to the Calcutta, Bombay port and export to their country because their country does not produce anything. They’re starving. Still England, London, is maintained by importing goods from Africa, India, here, there. They have no food there. They can grow some potato, maybe… Potato only, That was the reason of expanding their empire. They had no food at home, England. They were manufacturing cotton cloth. That cotton was not grown in their country. It was brought from Egypt. They manipulated things in such a way. In America also they wanted to do that, but Americans, just understanding, separated, George Washington. In America I have heard that each family was to maintain a British soldier. You know that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, I didn’t know that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they brought tea from India and other places and sell it in America. Their whole policy was they exploit the whole world and bring money in London. That's all. And one who will do that, he will be honored by the state, given Earl of some small village. It has no value. Earl of this whole…, this man…, place, Lord of this. (laughter) A few acres of land and he is Lord of Chelmsford. And they will be given big, big post, governor, viceroy.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Devotee (1): We need defense so we have to work hard to keep defense, economy. The common man has to contribute to the state to keep its defense.

Prabhupāda: Defense, that means...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's today... Unless there is very complex society...

Devotee (1): Otherwise we will be exploited.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Unless there is a very complex...

Prabhupāda: Therefore we say change the society. Society means you and me. If we agree that this kind of civilization is wrong, then society, what does it mean? They have made the United Nations. What is that? For this purpose, that "Why we are fighting unnecessarily?" So make their settlement, how to live. What is the standard of civilization? What is the aim of life? What they are doing in the United Nation for the last thirty years? What they have done? They simply fighting, the same cats and dogs. What is the value?

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: You have no position. You cannot take the Western culture properly, and you have lost your own culture. This is India's bad luck. They never taught Indians how to become actually Westernized. No. They were not giving them sufficient education. They were very much against higher education in the beginning. They wanted some clerks to conduct their activities, mercantile and government, some third-class, fourth-class men. Educated means ABCD, that's all. "They may know ABCD and take fifty, sixty rupees salary, and go home outside the town and come in daily passenger train, and work hard here and simply get your money so that you can maintain yourself." Nothing more. No education, no money, no industry. They were not taught properly. Here I see the factories, and the arrangement is so nice. But Indian factories, go—it is hell. Hell, simply hell. The Britishers exploited the Indians, and the capitalist class of India, they have learned how to exploit only.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Exploit their own people.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Formerly the Manchester people were exploiting Indians. Now the Ahmedabad people, they have learned how to exploit. That's all. And government is satisfied because they pay tax. "Never mind. The workers may suffer, go on suffering." This is going on. And they have lost their own culture, and they have been taught how to drink, how to eat meat. This is... (break) ...fact is that Indians cannot work so hard as the Western people can work. The climate does not allow. India's climate is good for peaceful living, less work, and brain engaged in spiritual advancement. That is India's gift. They are not meant for hard work. Hard work is not required for anyone. This is animal civilization, to work very hard. Then what is the difference between animal and man? A man has to work so hard like animal; then what is the difference? Here in the Western countries their climate is also suitable, and they are taught to work very hard like animals. And they do that. Therefore materially they become so-called prosperous for committing suicide. Is it not?

Morning Walk -- October 25, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: :Any woman should be looked upon as mother. This is culture. Except his married wife, all women should be treated as mother. The brahmacārīs were taught like that, "Mother." This is culture. Simply they are trying to elope other's wife, other's woman, exploit them. And they're cultured. There is no culture at the present moment. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat: "And others' money should be treated just like pebbles in the street." Nobody cares for it. So they are simply making plans how to grab others' money. And Ātmavat sarva bhūteṣu: "And if you feel pains and pleasure, you should consider for others also." If your throat is cut, then do you feel very happy? Why you are cutting the throats of the poor animals? Where is culture? There is no culture. Simply rogues and thieves and rascals and fools. Where is culture? They do not know what is the meaning of culture.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Brahmānanda: But their idea is that they can change the automatic control to suit their own...

Prabhupāda: That is their... That is their stupidity. Therefore they are fit for being kicked. That is the disease-imagining, obstinacy. They cannot do anything; still they'll claim they can do. "Pay me my salary."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What is the position of the scientist who studies the laws of nature and then he tries to utilize them for his advantage, exploits them?

Prabhupāda: That's all right. The law is there. That is not his law. So his intelligence will be there when he understands who has made this law. Then his intelligence. That is intelligence.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Just like making airplane. They observe the bird, and then they make...

Prabhupāda: Now, that they... When they admit, "Oh, this law is made (heavy static) ," then they come to senses.

Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: So in jnani, those who are after knowledge, and inquisitive, they are better than this arta and arthārthī. But devotee is transcendental to all of them. They are neither arto, not distressed, nor in need of money. They do not want to speculate for knowledge or... They know, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, and if I am part and parcel of the Supreme, it is my duty to serve Him to My best capacity." That is real bhakti. And those who are trying to exploit Kṛṣṇa for their, some material fulfillment of desire, they are not on the platform of bhakta. They are pious, not bhakta. A bhakta is above piety. Bhakta's position is sarvopadhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). He is cent percent pure, without any mat... These are all material things. But beginning is all right. If you go to the fire, some way or other you will get the heat. So either be arta, arthārthī, jñānī, jijñāsu, if you somehow or other, you have come to Kṛṣṇa, it is good for you.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. These people can be brought under control by bribing. There is no problem. They have no moral strength, and poor. They will accept bribe. I think by bribing it is still going on. Otherwise how they can stop this bribing? That is not possible.

Cyavana: No. This is their major problem, the immigration authorities. Once the people come here and start to make their exploitation, they cannot get them out. So they make all kinds of artificial regulations. You have to have so much money. You have to have this, and that, your ticket, so many things, to try to stop people from coming here, because once they're here, they just pay their way, and then they get anything they want.

Prabhupāda: The simple method that everything belongs to God... The king is the representative of God, and he distributes the land amongst the kṣatriyas. Just like knighthood or in Mussulman times, subedat(?), and in Hindu times, the subordinate king. Just like Pāṇḍavas, they were the emperors, and under them there were many hundreds and thousands of kings, states. And everything belongs to God. So why fighting? Take it. It is God's property. We are all sons of God. But there is no culture, Aryan culture. They do not know how to live peacefully and cultivate spiritual culture. They do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśāya ye bahir-artha... (SB 7.5.31). And durāśāya, bad hopes or hopes against hope, they're trying to be happy, bahir-artha, by the external energy, material, most fallen ideas, all foolish theories without any knowledge. Material, that's all. Bahir artha, external energy. Otherwise there is no cause of anxiety or distress. There is enough land. They can produce enough food and live peacefully.

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...given by God. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanam. You have no intelligence even, so that is given by God. (Hindi) Let them become devotees. Why these old men, they are not coming? They are still after money? Amara ajñaya guru hana tara ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128), Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. So you have come to this country. Do something good for these Africans. Let them become devotee. Where is that attempt? The white men, they also came to exploit them, and you have also come to exploit them. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "No-para upakara." Upakara kara. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... They are not so advanced; make them advanced. That is real cooperation.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Take for example our big leader, Mahātmā Gandhi. He was supposed to be very good scholar in Bhagavad-gītā. Did he ever preach that "You are not this body?"

Dr. Patel: I come from the ashram. Yes, he did.

Prabhupāda: Then where is the question of nationalism?

Dr. Patel: He never says... When he went to England...

Prabhupāda: Then why he asked the Europeans to go out? "Quit India."

Dr. Patel: Because they were exploiting poor people. There was a question of uniformity of people. There was no question of...

Prabhupāda: No, there cannot be uniformity. On the bodily concept of life there cannot be any uniformity. That is a... When uniformity comes? Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. When? Brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). Then uniformity. You have no knowledge of Brahman. You are living like cats and dogs. How there can be uniformity? That is not possible. (break) Practically you see uniformity. Somebody is coming from Europe; somebody, American; somebody, African; somebody, Canada; somebody, Hindu; somebody, Muslim; somebody, Christian. How they are becoming uniform? Because on the Brahman platform. And if you remain in this bodily concept of life, there is no question of uniformity. Para... (break) ...nirmatśarāṇāṁ. This uniformity means "I am envious of you; you are envious of me." This is our position.

Morning Walk -- November 26, 1975, New Delhi:

Harikeśa: If you spend all your days just chanting, how can you eat? Religion means you go to the church and you just pray.

Prabhupāda: And who says that religionists should not eat? Do we say...? We have ample prasādam to eat. It is already there. You are researching after food, starving dog. We don't research. There is food ready.

Harikeśa: But we're just exploiting.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa bada day maya, karibāre jihv jaya, sva-prasāda anna dilo bhāi. Kṛṣṇa is ready. Take prasādam as much as you like.

Harikeśa: The Communists will say we're just exploiting.

Prabhupāda: The Communists may say, but we don't say. They are hungry people, they may say. We are not hungry. Our food is supplied by Kṛṣṇa. Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). He brings food. So why should the Communists?

Morning Walk -- November 30, 1975, Delhi:

Haṁsadūta: In America in the upcoming elections in 1976, one of the biggest candidates is a movie actor, Ronald Reagan. Yes.

Prabhupāda: For presidentship?

Haṁsadūta: For presidentship. And he stands a very good chance of winning.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's governor of California. (break) The movie stars are entering into politics now. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the government will be incompetent, the more the citizens will be exploited. Ultimately the citizens will suffer. Because they will want money and plunder the citizens, they will be disgusted. Āchinna-dāra-draviṇ gacchanti giri-kānanam. (break)

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1975, Vrndavana:

Indian man: Rudra-yajña. (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Somebody is exploiting. Rudra-yajña. (break) ...any mention of Rudra-yajña? In the Bhagavad-gītā the word is yajña. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra. Where is Rudra-yajña? (Hindi)

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: If some children discuss some serious subject matter, what is the value? And they are all children in the cradle of nature, that's all. Prakṛteḥ kriya.... Therefore it is word, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). Just like children—"Ha! Sit down here"—he has to sit down. Then where is his freedom to discuss? Prakṛti says that "You sit down here. Don't go there." He has to accept. Then what is the value of discussion?

Acyutānanda: Mainly, these Karl Marx, they were angry at the Christian church for exploiting the poor masses, and that's the reason...

Prabhupāda: This is our...

Acyutānanda: ...so he has attacked. He has taken vengeance on this.

Prabhupāda: That they are doing. Still they are doing. Just like you said, some sprinkling water. They have no philosophy and they violate everything, what is stated there in Bible. Now you say that "Thou shall not kill;" they say, "Thou shall not murder." They are molding. Now this homosex they are sanctioning, man-to-man marriage. They are sanctioning abortion.

Acyutānanda: Yes. Two homosexuals were married by a priest.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1976, Madras:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...yata āyur-vyayaḥ param. Prahlāda Mahārāja said, tat prayāsaṁ na kartavyam: "This kind of endeavor you should not do, exploitation." Not exploitation. I mean to say, unnecessarily trying for developing economic condition. The modern civilization is: "Exploit nature and materially be opulent."

Morning Walk -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Indian man: Actually he told me.... He said, "Our rates are very higher in Krishnanagar. Don't tell anybody that we are charging three rupees.

Bhavānanda: But we're not going to hire him. (laughter)

Indian man: No, we are not going to hire.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. We cannot pay.

Indian man: It's almost double.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is trying to exploit you. They freely say, the rickshawalla, that they will charge five hundred rupees per bīghā to others and they will charge four thousand rupees to you. This is going on. Don't allow them to paint unless the rate is settled.

Morning Walk -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Indian man: So now everybody will go. When the rich people will take their land they have to go. They will say, "How we can live with the small land," so they will move.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, why they should not try to be rich? If the rich man exploits them, that "You work in our land and take some salary," why they will work for that? They will go to the factory, will get more salary. This way Indira Gandhi cannot solve the poverty problem. They must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like these soldiers, they for twenty years, simply eating and sleeping, and they are not engaged in cultivating-useless waste of time—and government has to maintain in big cantonment, big, big house, big, nice food, nice.... This is going on. Why the soldiers are maintained? It is waste of energy. They should have been engaged in tilling. Formerly the kings would give them free land. "You make your fortune—but on condition: when there is fight, you have to join." That was very easy. He possessed so much land, and he worked hard, and he got riches. Unless.... "Proprietorship turns sand into gold." Unless there is proprietorship, it cannot be. So therefore kṣatriyas, they were given land: "You take land as much as you like and produce but on condition that when there is war you have to join."

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Acyutānanda: Yes. I asked one man. I said, "What do you have to show? What is the results? What is the results of the change? The people are still living in a hut." He says, "The struggle is what we have to show, that we had a struggle. People are not just sitting by and being exploited, but they are now struggling."

Prabhupāda: No, that is already found...

Acyutānanda: Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8).

Prabhupāda: ...in the Bhagavad-gītā: manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). This is the nature's law. What you have got to say about this thing? Nothing. It is already there. Prakṛti-sthāni karṣati. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati: "Although they are my part and parcel," mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7), still, "because they have been predominated by the mind, manaḥ, and the senses, they are struggling." So our propaganda is "Stop this sense gratification and mental concoction. Then the struggle will cease. And if you still abide by the senses and mental dictation, then you'll have to suffer."

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: ...simply man looks after the animals, that he's strong and happy, they'll get food grains, the cooperation, and both of them happy. But they're not looking to that. They are trying to sell the grains and get more money, and purchase wine and enjoy. And when the animal will be unable to work, sell him to the slaughterhouse and get money. And for these sinful activities, they are suffering.

Hari-śauri: Their idea is just to exploit.

Prabhupāda: Hah, yes. Everyone is trying to get more, and nature's order is that you take only to maintain your body and soul together. That's all. If you take more, then you are thief, you'll be punished by the laws of nature. This is going on. Laws of nature are so fine that by material activities you'll never be satisfied, and at the time of death, he'll lament that "I could not satisfy my desires. Let me take..." "All right, take another body. Satisfy." This is nature's punishment. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). Simple things. We desire, and nature will give you another body. māyā-yantrārūḍhāni. He'll give you, "Ride on this car, you wanted, on this body." And this... This is creation of māyā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe... (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa is there, orders māyā, "He wants to enjoy life. Give him this body." "Come on, here is a hog's body, eat nicely, stool. Come on." He did not like to eat prasādam. He wanted something rubbish. "All right, come here. Take this stool." These things are going automatically. The same way, as you infect some disease, immediately the disease is there. You haven't got to manufacture diseases.

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Even up to Mohammedan time this civilization was being continued. Mohammedan did not touch the Indian culture. Sometimes by, what is called, fanaticism, there was fight. Not like this. The Arjuna.... Aurangzeb began this. Otherwise, from, what is called, the first emperor? Akbar. Akbar, Jahanghri, then Shajahan, there was no trouble. They did not touch. Even there was some marriage connection. They want to remain as kṣatriya king, that's all. The other things were not interfered. So instead of a Hindu kṣatriya, the Musselman kṣatriya. People were satisfied: "A kṣatriya... We have to work. Somebody must be king." So in this way the Indian people accepted the Britishers. "All right, you remain king. Don't interfere." But later on, to exploit the whole country, they began to plan.

Morning Walk -- April 13, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I have seen Gandhi's prayer meeting, and I attended. Utmost, five minutes reading Bhagavad-gītā, then again politics immediately. Immediately politics. I was in Delhi. I attended the meeting when Nawa Khalia (Noakhali?) fast. So this was his prayer. I have seen. And as a result of this, in that prayer meeting he was killed. (Hindi) So nature punishment are there. (Hindi) The last stage of Kali-yuga means you die.

Dr. Patel: But the way the modern civilized nations are exploiting the resources of the world, another fifty years there will be no resources left, and civilization automatically will die out.

Prabhupāda: Wars. The occasional war, pestilence, famine, that's all.

Dr. Patel: Even there is no war, sir, or no pestilence, the population...

Prabhupāda: There will be war. Because you are dissatisfied, I am dissatisfied, on some little provocation we fight. Nobody is happy. I have seen in Allahabad. Little provocation, two brothers fought so much, one brother was killed immediately. Then, when he was ordered to be hanged, his father appealed that "I am the father. One son I have already lost. If he is hanged, then my.... You hang me, my good man(?)." Then he excused him and he actually was.... Upon the father's appeal. I have seen it.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Because the very theory of dialectical materialism is against the tenets of religious teachings of sanātana-dharma.

Prabhupāda: No, that...

Dr. Patel: The spirit is more important than material.

Prabhupāda: No, their teaching is to become some strong atheist, because religion has been exploited by the so-called religious leaders. That is the difficulty. So they have become atheist.

Dr. Patel: Unless they change their very principle on which they are working. That is why I say we must spread the spiritual communism, sir, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the only way. The other day I talked about the dialectical materialism. That is the crux of the whole communism.

Prabhupāda: The communism will be immediately perfect as soon as it is connected with Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1976, Melbourne:

Devotee (3): They call this colonization, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Whatever you may call, there are thieves, rogues and thieves. That's all.

Devotee (3): Exploiting.

Guru-kṛpā: Now they're dividing up the booty, fighting over it.

Prabhupāda: That story, that some thieves stolen. Now, when they are dividing, they say, "Please honestly, religious divide." The things are stolen, and now it is to be divided religiously. The foundation of the thing is stealing, and they are dividing in.... Now they are making laws, morality.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: China has achieved great material strides in the last twenty years. There is no prostitution. They have wiped out flies, no more flies causing disease. There is.... And they look to a very bitter past of exploitation at the hand of foreigners and internal civil war and great suffering and starvation. So when they look back over twenty years they see, "Oh, we have advanced greatly." So they are very satisfied.

Prabhupāda: No, if they actually progressing, they will have to come to that point—that is natural—where, placing your service, you can serve everyone. That is the right conclusion. But we have got that right conclusion. If you take from us you can make immediately. But if you want to wait by your research work, then you can waste your time. But you have to come to this point. That is a fact. Just like you have to give food to the mouth. If you do not know, out of rascaldom you experiment here, you experiment here, you experiment here, you experiment.... There are so many holes. You go on experimenting, and waste your time. But unless you come to this point, that "Food has to be supplied here," your all attempt will be failure. That you have to tell them. And because you cannot supersede nature's way. Nature's way is "The food must go through here." You cannot change it. You are not above nature.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: They say that as the population increases in the cities, there must be rioting and fighting. There will be so many people without the minimum necessities of life, so much exploitation of the rich upper class.

Prabhupāda: Why not go to New Vrindaban? That they will not do.

Rāmeśvara: There is no training how to live in New Vrindaban. They are educated only to live in the cities and work like mūḍhas. Even now.... One of the biggest problems that they're predicting is unemployment. They cannot...

Prabhupāda: Yes. In America it has begun, what to speak of other countries.

Hṛdayānanda: Worse in other countries.

Rāmeśvara: Today there are many articles in the papers that college students graduate and cannot find any jobs, so their degree is useless.

Prabhupāda: This.... This was the problem in India, and now it is also in America.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Rājanyaiḥ, dasyu-dharma. Simply wanting some bribe. They are in power. And that will increase. It will be impossible to deal with. Now it is already. In India, any work you want to be done by government, unless you bribe.... In Africa also. The situation is becoming very dangerous. That Mullik's Thakur, where he...?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In Calcutta, yes.

Prabhupāda: The state is in the management of official trustee. And this trustee in charge of the trust board men, they give us so much trouble and exploit the position for his personal profit. I have seen. Horrible. For instance, I can give you, if in some property there is some repair, it will cost you, say, one hundred rupees. And they'll give it to a contractor, and the contractor will present a bill, twelve hundred rupees. And he'll pass. And the contractor will be given, say, two hundred rupees, and balance he'll take. I have seen.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Jagadīśa: I've understood that communism is presented by the administrative class when there is a condition of scarcity. When there is opulence, then there is room for personal individual enterprise, but when there is scarcity, that cannot be encouraged, and the common people have to be subjugated. So capitalism and communism are both simply philosophies how to keep the common man satisfied. So it's simply another means of exploitation.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is exploitation, and actually they have done it.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Ah, janmācāra. First of all, janma, the family, heredity, was taken into consideration, but that is now forgotten. Get money. Just like in England the British empire's policy was that you bring money from outside and deposit in the government treasury and you become lord. Is it not? Bring money, some way or other. So that was going on, exploiting, they used to go to the foreign countries and somehow or other accumulate money. Just like Lord Clive. He was a street boy, but he made some policy. In this way, diplomacy, he entered into Bengal and got some money, and Lord Clive, he became Lord Clive. So money is the criterion. Some way or other, bring money. That's all. That's a fact. These are the symptoms. Just try to understand.

Pradyumna: Vittam eva kalau nṛṇāṁ janmācāra-guṇodayaḥ.

Prabhupāda: If you have money, then you are aristocratic, then whatever you do, it is all right. Janmācāra, then?

Pradyumna: Guṇa.

Prabhupāda: Guṇa. You are most qualified man. You may be a drunkard, you may be a prostitute hunter, whatever you may be, but because of money you are a qualified man.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Why these rascals compare it with Arizona? As if there is no other place in the world. Everything they are doing in Arizona. All photograph in this place. Now they have been caught. I was always protesting, "These rascals have never gone." For the last ten years I've protested. Whenever they asked me, I say straightly, "It is all childish. They have never gone, neither they'll be able to go." That has been proof available. Now they do not talk about it. That is finished, all propaganda, finished. Now they have taken another...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mars.

Prabhupāda: ...to keep their service in order. This is going on, all cheating. To keep people in darkness and exploit them. The so-called swamis exploiting, yogis exploiting, politician exploiting, scientists exploiting, philosophers exploiting. What is the position of the world? And this is the opportunity, human life, to know everything, to solve all the problems. They are not given the opportunity, they are kept in darkness. The demons. "There is no God, science is everything, life is produced from chemicals, and there is no living entities on other planets." They are simply show. This planet is full of..., it is all scientists, and they are vacant. And we have to believe that. Perhaps for the first time I am raising protest against all this nonsense.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Hari-śauri: Paul Murray, he was the boy that went crazy?

Prabhupāda: Yes, he was LSD man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: LSD man. He tried to attack you.

Prabhupāda: Not attack, but he showed some ferocious mood. I thought...

Devotee (1): Very dangerous.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you thought to leave right away.

Prabhupāda: Yes, immediately.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You took all your things and went away.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I kept with Mukunda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And that boy was keeping meat in his refrigerator?

Prabhupāda: No, that is another boy, Yeargen.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: John Yeargens?

Prabhupāda: He's black.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You were staying with him?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow. Your Godbrothers could never believe this. (laughter)

Devotee (1): So at that time you did not think that anyone would accept your philosophy.

Prabhupāda: That I was certain. At the beginning I was...

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda was certain that they would accept.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think, Prabhupāda, that your exploits here are no less great than Lord Caitanya going into the Jhārikhaṇḍa forest and making the animals dance.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Hari-śauri: He's following the line of Vivekananda.

Prabhupāda: Just see how rascal they are. My Guru Mahārāja every step condemned this Ramakrishna Mission and Vivekananda. He said frankly that if there are any impediments for our movement, that is this Gandhi and Vivekananda. He said frankly. Hodge-podge. Gandhi's also hodge-podge. He was a politician, and in politics he mixed some spiritual ideas, hodge-podge. And this Vivekananda was also politician. His name was recorded in the government as "sannyāsī-politician." Because after returning from America, he began to preach to make the poor man rich, and these weak, fatty, and so on, exercise. So the government took it that he's, under the dress of a sannyāsī, he's preaching social and political upliftment. So his name was recorded as "sannyāsī-politician." And his name was also recorded, "political saint," Gandhi. After all, the British government, they were very intelligent. They could understand what is what. Otherwise, how they were managing this big empire? Very intelligent, there is no doubt about it. And actually they were intelligent. When they were managing, we were happy, actually. Nobody can deny it. Although they were exploiting. But nobody could understand. Everyone was feeling happy. And as soon as they left, everyone is unhappy. That distinction I can give evidence, I can, from my personal experience. Things were very, very nice. Calcutta, oh, it was so nice city. Now it is hell. It is same Calcutta. Why it is now hell? Hidden(?) garden, that was a nice garden. So... Everywhere hell, only hell. Calcutta was considered the nicest city in India, better than Bombay, but it has become now hell. The streets, especially those quarters in our temple.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Hari-śauri: Still, due to the British presence, isn't that the main reason why India has become so degraded now?

Prabhupāda: Yes, from...

Hari-śauri: Because they introduced so many bad things?

Prabhupāda: Yes, from cultural point of view, they are degraded. And that was that British policy, to kill them culturally. Otherwise not possible to rule over them.

Hari-śauri: They always advertised that India was so backward because that was a justification for their being there, that "We shall go and educate."

Prabhupāda: They used to advertise like that.

Hari-śauri: Then they could exploit and avoid criticism.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so many bad things Britishers introduced. Bad things means Western type of civilization.

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So this is one of the items, that God is the richest, or He possesses all the wealth. Similarly, He possesses all the strength, He possesses all the beauty, He possesses all knowledge, and He is the renouncer also, the most exalted renouncer. Although He possesses so many things, He is renounced. Just like this universe is the property of God, but He has given to you, all the living entities. "Now you wanted to enjoy, enjoy it to your best capacity." He doesn't interfere. "All right, you go on." And we are trying to enjoy this material world to our best capacity. Just like in Iran, you are trying to enjoy by exploiting the oil. Similarly, somebody is exploiting. It is all God's property. He doesn't interfere. "All right, enjoy." This is renouncement. His property, He does not come to interfere. God knows how this universe is made. So many big, big scientists, they are trying to understand what is the constitution, how this universe is made, how it is created. Nobody knows, but He knows.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That's all. You are trying to unify the so-called human beings, but you are keeping the poor animals for cutting their throat. This is your humanity. Because these poor animals cannot protest, so you are strong. And this is your humanity, you cut their throat and eat. But that is not humanity. Humanity is here mentioned: God is the seed-giving father all living entities. That is the fact. That is humanity. They do not know what is meaning by humanity. Here is the explanation, humanity. That is called brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Unless you come to that stage, there is no question of humanity. Artificially, you manufacture something and you think humanity. According to your convenience. "Let us combine together and exploit other living entities for our benefit." That is not humanity. They do not know what is humanity. Here is the explanation. How humanity can be established unless there is the understanding of the supreme father, how there is question of, how this question of brotherhood can come in? Here Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: (BG 14.4) "I am the seed-giving father." So you try to understand this, then humanity. You cannot manufacture some ideas of humanity, imperfect, because you are imperfect. Here is perfect idea.

Morning Walk -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Hari-śauri: He wanted to go to Detroit.

Prabhupāda: Detroit, everyone is trying to take some advantage.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Everybody thinks America is everything. A heavenly planet.

Prabhupāda: Yes, for India it is heavenly planet, certainly.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: I'm sure there is always a lot of people who gather around American devotees.

Prabhupāda: To exploit.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They want money, they want this, they want benefit, some sort of, this I can see.

Prabhupāda: What is the price of this bread?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Five rials, it's about half a rupee.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: It's big, it's good. It is good bread.

Nava-yauvana: It is subsidized by the government.

Prabhupāda: Still half a rupee.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, you come and preach. The country is going to hell, the human society is going to hell for misguidance. These rascal leaders, they're going to hell themselves and they're leading others. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). These fools and rascals are leading, they are going to hell, and they are taking the followers to the hell. This is going on. Stop this. At least in India. Save. That is real para-upakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission.

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra

(CC Adi 9.41)

Para-upakāra. Our India is not meant for exploiting others. Doing good to others, that is India's mission. Our teachers, our ācāryas, do not teach us "Go and exploit others and bring money"—British Empire. This is not India.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Indian Doctor: Even Jesus never taught that. These are the wrong followers.

Prabhupāda: Jesus is different thing than that. I mean to say generally, generally, the people they want to exploit others.

Indian Doctor: It is the greed of the human being.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but the mission should be, human being should be meant for doing good to others. Para-upakāra. That para-upakāra spirit is gone on account of losing our own culture. Otherwise, India's culture is para-upakāra. India was open, "Come everyone, learn." Lord Jesus Christ also came here. All the Chinese, learned scholars, they used to come. The history is there. And India was open. Gṛhe śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akutobhayam. This is Indian culture. Even the enemy comes, "Yes, please come, you stay." But later on, they took advantage: "Oh, they are very liberal, enter there." And still we are liberal. "Please come here, stay here and take prasādam free, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Open to everyone. I shall manage anyway, I shall travel, still I shall lay down my life and bring money. Come here, stay. Still we are liberal. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra (CC Adi 9.41). First of all, make your life successful by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then do good to others.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So Indians did not like that Mohammedans may go away. Rather, when Shri Raj Birla (?) was arrested by flight, the Bengali zamindars, they protested. Rani Bhavani, she protested. Although it is alleged that Shri Raj Birla (?) kidnapped her daughter. But if Shri Raj Birla kidnapped her daughter, how he (she) supported Shri Raj Birla? There are so many falsehoods. On the whole, the Indians never planned to drive away the Mohammedans. They never. That's a fact. They were happy because there was no exploitation. All these Mohammedans, they made their home in India, so whatever lavishly they were spending, that was coming to the Indians. In Taliganj (?) there is a man. Now they are aristocratic family. He was servant of the nawab, and he stolen one shoes, one feet, which was bedecked with jewels. So by selling that jewel he became a rich man. So although they were using jewelled shoe, but it was in India. They were satisfied that "I am nawab. I am using jeweled shoes." But the jewelled shoes was in India and these Englishmen, they have taken away all the jewels even from the walls and keeping them in their homes, all gold, jewels, everything.

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, we must bring this man charges. "Ungodly face."

Hari-śauri: Just like it says in the Bhagavad-gītā, they think religion is irreligion...

Prabhupāda: "Ungodly face," what is that?

Pradyumna: "The ungodly face of Kṛṣṇa cult."

Prabhupāda: What is that ungodly face?

Hari-śauri: They're trying to make out we're political.

Pradyumna: That we... He said he has "Now unmasked the ungodly face of Kṛṣṇa cult." That we're putting on a false face of being devotees of Kṛṣṇa, but actually we have an ungodly purpose. That we want to...

Prabhupāda: What ungodly we have done?

Pradyumna: That he does not come out and say, but he implies that we are foreign, that we want to exploit India somehow.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, they are feeling the weight. Now they are feeling the weight. That is the progress. Otherwise, if our movement would have been a trifle thing, the government and newspapers they would not have taken care. Now they are feeling that this movement is going to be more and more important, all over the world.

Hari-śauri: They can see we're having an effect.

Pradyumna: The more we go with these traveling parties also, from town to town.

Room Conversation with Endowments Commissioner of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: There is a proverb that a vulture goes very high, but his ambition is where is a dead body. As soon as he finds a dead body, (growling sound) immediately. And we see, "Oh, how high he has gone." So what is the going up so high if your aim is to find out a dead body? And actually, these aeronautics, they went to very high, suppose they went to moon. But after going there they find, "Where is Moscow? Where is this?" The same vulture business. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the only hope to give relief to the human society. So everyone should cooperate with this movement. Unfortunately, there are so many envious persons, they are writing against us, talking against us. They should be envious. Because they want to exploit, keeping the people in ignorance.

Garden Conversation -- September 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Sikhs are very brave. They're martial. And another martial race, Jats. They are kṣatriyas. Oh, they can fight... When Britishers possessed India they organized this military with Sikhs especially, Jats, and Gurkhas. And they expanded their empire, Burma, Ceylon, Africa, all these British Empire possessions. And not only that, they fought two big world wars with these Sikhs soldiers. They conquered over this Mesopotamia, Middle East.

Caraṇāravindam: They worked so hard. It's a pity they weren't doing it for Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: They like military. They want military jobs. Very kṣatriya spirit.

Caraṇāravindam: They collected so much, but they lost it because they didn't give it to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Ah, their bad policy that they wanted India for Britishers' benefit. That is not duty of the government. Government should be for the welfare of the people. Then that government will continue. But they exploited the Indian people for the benefit of their own countrymen. That is the failure. That policy was not good. Therefore they finished within two hundred years. They began their ruling 1775, like that. And 1947... Not even two hundred years.

Room Conversation -- September 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Indian man: See the shop here. See all the shop whether they have got money or not. You have opened a canteen here and you can note from there who has got money.

Prabhupāda: No, money they have got. There is no doubt. They are not coming from poor country, either poor. No, we are welcoming provided he is reasonable. Simply to exploit, that is not good. That is not good. What do you think? In our Indian system, if somebody goes to a sādhu's āśrama, especially gṛhastha, immediately he pays fifty rupees, hundred rupees. He'll not stay more than three days, four days. But he knows "The sādhu, wherefrom he'll bring money? Take." They are paying without staying. Just like yesterday this man came, and you have seen so many people come. In your country also it is done. That is up to the man's conscience. That I have come here, so I require to stay. Pay something. But not that... That should be properly expended. So anything can be done very nicely provided there is good management. I do not see any difficulty. I am present here. If there is any difficulty, ask me. I shall advise. (Hindi) Per head hundred rupees is sufficient. Not more than that. Even, how many devotees are here now?

Room Conversation -- September 16, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Anything fresh. Any cultivator, he has got little land surrounding his house and he's growing vegetables like squash, chilis, and some spinage, spinach?

Haṁsadūta: Spinach, śāka.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And...

Haṁsadūta: Eggplant.

Prabhupāda: Eggplant. And this banana. So whatever he's grown he takes in a basket, goes to the market, immediately sold. And they're all fresh. Collected in the morning, and it is sold by eight o'clock. All fresh vegetables. There was no export, there was no facility of transport. These rascals introduced transport. Big scale transport, this railway. There was no railway. So transport means this villager, instead of selling locally or one mile away, he will dispatch in Calcutta. The Calcutta people, they are sitting on table and smoking and printing paper money and exploit.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa came in India and because India is so glorified place, puṇya-bhūmi, even the demigods they desire. Not India, this planet, Bhāratavarṣa. Formerly, the whole Bhāratavarṣa means whole planet. Anyway, for the time it is now minimized. So it is not ordinary land. So our men, they are not interested in such great movement. How much regrettable it is. And who are they? Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ duṣkṛtino narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). If you speak the truth, then you take the quotation of Kṛṣṇa. Now every Indian should take part in this great movement. Every Indian. That is the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order.

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra

(CC Adi 9.41)

It is para-upakāra. India's business is para-upakāra. India's business is not exploitation. That is Indian. And para-upakāra means not that daridra-nārāyaṇa bhojana, no. Para-upakāra means to give him knowledge, for want of which he is suffering.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (4): Swamiji, what about missionaries who are working in India who are coming from abroad and they are actually exploiting. If they put a charge against our institution, well, we can definitely say that we are motivating the intellect to take into the higher stage of life. Here the missionaries who come, they go in the backward areas and those who are not learned, those who are practically uneducated... I mean, their mission is to convert them in Christianity. You see, that charge is rather more grave than the particular one which they have leveled against us. You see, we can put that argument, isn't it? How many Hindus are converted into Christianity. We are not converting them, we are just...

Prabhupāda: Our case is not that we are going to convert one Hindu to Christian, or Christian to Hindu. There is no meaning. Our is, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Even if you are Hindu, even you are Muslim, you are Christian, kick it out. That is our movement. We do not advocate that "You are Christian, you become Hindu." Or "You are Hindu, you become..." They are taking like that. But our movement is not that.

Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Simply if we repeat what is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, then we become guru. And if you can convince a person, one person, then you get your... But no. They are creating their own manufactured knowledge, manufactured process, and exploiting Bhagavad-gītā. What is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, they'll never say. They'll take a Bhagavad-gītā and pose himself that "I am a great scholar of Bhagavad-gītā. I have got my own interpretation that I go to hell and you go to hell." That's all.

Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Most important movement. (Hindi) You are in a good position. Try to convince others. Life should be for para-upakāra. Not exploiting. This is India's mission. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra

(CC Adi 9.41)

This is India's... Anyone who has taken birth in India, first of all make his life perfect by understanding the śāstra. The gist of śāstra is Bhagavad-gītā. And then distribute the knowledge. Para-upakāra. This should be India's mission. India hasn't got to learn from anywhere else. Everything is there. Let him understand the whole philosophy of life perfectly and distribute this. This is India's mission.

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Best commentary is the Bhagavad-gītā itself. It needs no commentary. It is so simple to understand. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ.

Prabhupāda: And commentary, interpretation required when you cannot understand. It is very easy and still these rogues will exploit and mislead people. This is... And perhaps, this is the first time I am pointing out. Before that nobody did.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Anyway, try to introduce a renovation of civilization. Therefore they are trying to oppose us. Now they are conscious about the movement, that "If it is allowed to increase, then our program will be finished. And young men are taking. They are not rejecting." That is their concern. They are concerned about their business and industry. If these young men are held up in plain living, then where their industry...? Industry means to exploit the work of others and give them one dollar and make profit ten dollars. This is industry, at the cost of others some capitalist gaining huge profit. This is industry. "And let them live in a hellish condition, go to hell. Never mind. You work in the factory, and we make profit." The Communist is trying to take over the industry and get the whole profit. (laughs) That's all. The condition remains the same—hellish. But... What is called...? Complacent, he's satisfied that "I am getting the profit." All foolish. The Iran is also imitating European method of exploiting. They're bringing men from village. In India also, British period, they used to, that, but Indian people are little clever. They would come from the village to the city alone, not with family. They earn money and send to the family. And whenever they like, they go away. They're not dependent.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Now there is shortage of all the important material the world over. The way we are exploiting the earth, perhaps we'll be short, falling short of everything.

Prabhupāda: Therefore our Trivikrama Mahārāja is reminding me... When I was lecturing in Berkeley University, one Indian student asked me, "Swamijī, what this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement will benefit? We require technology." So I replied that "You have come to beg technology; I have come to give them, not to beg from them."

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: Is that why Bhagatji didn't leave Vṛndāvana? Is that why he didn't want to leave?

Prabhupāda: No, no. I don't speak for anyone. But these kinds of paramahaṁsas are there. They cannot go out of Vṛndāvana. They are so advanced. But in Vṛndāvana, if there is a beautiful woman, try to exploit her. Go on. So I wanted to talk with you about that Saurabha, but he's coming on Monday. No? Because Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked the Gosvāmīs that you develop Vṛndāvana, so Gosvāmīs, they did that. But these smoker, bidi smoker paramahaṁsas, they imitate Rūpa Gosvāmī: "You cannot go." Simply by imitating Gosvāmīs by a loincloth they have become... (break) Pṛthivīte āche yata naga... All over the world, as many villages and towns are there, preach. But this paramahaṁsa says, "No, no. I cannot go beyond Vṛndāvana." Kali's..., Kali-yuga paramahaṁsa. Practically, if I remained at Rādhā-Dāmodara temple becoming a paramahaṁsa, then how this institution would have come into existence? That is a fact. But we are not doing. If I would have been a great paramahaṁsa, not leave Vṛndāvana; I would have been very happy in that room, no botheration. Then how this movement would have been started all over the world?

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: The Gandhi's movement, boycott British goods, but they took it: "Boycott British goods and take our goods." So the consumer goods were the same. Gandhi helped to stop the British capitalist in favor of the Indian capitalist. The consumer remained in the same position, rather, worse. The foreigners, they are thinking that "These people are poor. They cannot pay more to me." And these rascals, Indian capitalists, in the name of nationalism, Birlas and others, they exploit. And they give contribution to Gandhi, Gandhi's staff, Jawaharlal Nehru's staff. And they took the opportunity that "I shall pay this rascal one lakh, and I shall utilize the ten lakhs." That's it. So the object of exploitation remained the same. Rather, by artificial inflation of money market put common men in plight, because the other day I was calculating... The things have gone high priced, thirty times, but the income has not increased thirty times. The other day I was calculating. My father's income was, utmost, three hundred rupees. So we had no scarcity.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Hari-śauri: In most cases it's white water.

Prabhupāda: And we were purchasing real milk (indistinct). So nice.

Rāmeśvara: So they may say this philosophy, that's like the communism, capitalism, Russia, America. The business of exploiting the masses is the same, they'll say. Different names, different dress, but the main business is going on.

Prabhupāda: Expert. Nobody is thinking (indistinct) "Everyone will be happy." That we are thinking because we are devotees. Otherwise what is the use of my going to America? So America is not in need of me, but I found there is need of me. So they are thinking, "This man has come to wash our brains." And I think that "Yes, we are going to do work (indistinct) they will be happy."

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: At least Gandhi organized the public opinion against the Britishers by this noncooperation movement. They were not affected by the... Affected in this way, that public opinion was against them. That is also organization. Otherwise Gandhi's method was not harmful to the..., this noncooperation, nonviolent. That did not help. But he influenced the public opinion against them.

Rāmeśvara: All over the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That Hitler also did. Phāṇsa lāge dubudh bage: "If five men combine together, even the ghost will go away." (laughs) So everyone was against the Britishers. How they can keep their...? And nature's law also. They exploited the whole world for the benefit of few persons in London, and that is very bad.

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. No Englishmens were allowed to domicile in India. No. Strictly. But if... As soon as they make home, it will be America. The Americans made their home in America, so a war of independence was... They have experienced that, so did not allow the Englishmen to make India home. "You come here, work and take your payment. Can't come down."(?) This was the policy, Home Bill. And India's gold was kept in London. So gradually all the gold finished. Very, very crooked policy they followed. They... They... In Muhammadan period there was no such peaceful exploitation. These Muhammadans, they wanted to become lumma, kukum(?). Bas. That's all. They were satisfied. But their princely expenditure was done in India. When Shah Jahan constructed the Taj Mahal, heavy expenditure, but the payment was received by the Indians. And here a railway, very smart railway bridge is constructed that... The payment was paid in England. This was the policy. Every even screw, iron screw, was imported from England.

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But I am not for home. I am for the whole world. It is not... I have no such idea (laughs) that "I shall exploit American men and money for India." That is not my ambition. For the benefit of the whole world.

Gurudāsa: You are doing "Back to Home" bill.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Jaya. But actually I am exploiting American men and money, from this point of view. But what can I do? I do not make any national distinction, either American or Indian.

Gurudāsa: You are not exploiting...

Rāmeśvara: Spiritual Communism.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gurudāsa: They were exploiting; you are uplifting.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is train?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: No, practically I am spending America's money in a proper way. They would have used it in a different way.

Rāmeśvara: Japanese money also.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gurudāsa: No distinction. Any money will do. (break)

Prabhupāda: There is no exploitation. America has enough money, and India has got enough culture. So they should combine for the benefit of the whole world.

Rāmeśvara: Now American culture is highly developed sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: That is always. Now they've got enough money, but how they will utilize? That is the only source, outlet.

Rāmeśvara: So as the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement increases its influence, then American culture will gradually change?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. As you have changed. You are American. Why not others?

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Then he... There was very strong correspondence, and Tīrtha Mahārāja could not dare to do it. Otherwise he arranged like that, to give the temple to a Muhammadan and accept a Calcutta property which belonged to the Muhammadan.

Gargamuni: So when he could not do that, he just left it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He had no spiritual idea. Simply he wanted to exploit the property. That's all.

Gargamuni: So maybe we can save that place.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If we can do, it will be a great service.

Gargamuni: 'Cause still there is fifteen million Hindus in Bangladesh.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Pandemonium, yes. This has to be reformed. You cannot avoid these four classes working under the superior instruction of brahminical culture. Then everything... This life successful, next life is back to home, back to Godhead. That is civilization, no speculation. The formula is already there. Bhagavad-gītā is the guidance, as it is. "Be happy here, and next life hope. Why you are disappointed? Take this way and be happy." This is our movement. We are not going to exploit anyone. We are giving the right path: "Be happy in this life and next life also." This is our mission. Para upakāra. They are blindly following some ways of life. Blind men, certainly, without guidance, we are falling down in the ditch. Once this human life is misused, he falls down in the ditch. He does not... He becomes a tree. "Stand up there for one thousand years. What you can do?" This risk they are taking. They do not believe, therefore, there is next life. And wherefrom this life came, varieties? These rascals have no brain, and they are passing as scientist, politician, philosopher, all rascals, tenth-class men. Tell them.

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: But during that delay they are forced to lose their job, so they have no income. Then people from outside Russia who are sympathizers start to send money, and the government takes sixty-five percent of it in taxes before the people can get it. So they torture them if they want to leave.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Terrorism. Very dangerous. Now it is published in the paper how they exploit the people. And our India also thinking in terms of Russian philosophy. Lenin's philosophy.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: You said in that article in the BTG that women's liberation means that they get more exploited.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The giving them bluff that "You become liberated" means "We shall exploit you, young girls." This is the idea behind. Because the karmīs, they want sex, young girls, and they get energy to work. The Europeans, Americans, they work so hard. They get energy from new, new girls. This is psychology, Therefore they work like hogs and dogs. Dog civilization. Hog civilization. Because the hog has no restriction, either mother, sister, or anyone, "Come on." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājām..., kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This civilization is for the hogs, to take energy by sex with mother, sister, and anyone, and work hard. It is stated in the Bhāgavata. I have not manufactured. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). And here is the civilization. Tapo divyam. Be brahmacārī, undergo austerities and rectify your, this conditioned life, birth and death. This is human civilization.

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: Simply cheating process.

Prabhupāda: No aim how to make people understand about God. They have no such, neither they do know personally. Their only aim is that "If I become a God-man, if I can bluff, jugglery of words and this magic and..., then I'll..." The same material thing, pratiṣṭha. As ordinary people, they are working so hard for some material gain, material reputation, these people are like that, in a different manner. This Satya Sai Baba, this Vivekananda, this, all of them, like that. They want some material position, misusing their mediocre knowledge. That's all.

Hari-śauri: It's called "A cloak of respectability."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: Saintly person.

Prabhupāda: Yes. To become saintly person, exploit the person, ordinary fools. That is aim.

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: She said, "Your Gurujī is just like Nethaji. He went outside of India and organized army of Vaiṣṇavas."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now it is in the right hand. Resourceful, you Americans. You can do this. There is scientist. So we have got the framework very nice. Now you can push on. It is a good movement for the benefit of the whole world. Kṛṣṇa will help you. Kṛṣṇa will recognize you. Go on pushing rightly. Our only mission is para-upakāra—we don't want to exploit anyone—Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. The people in general, human being, they have got this opportunity of being out of the clutches of māyā and they are kept in darkness. What is this? Is that civilization? This is our mission. Here is opportunity for his getting out of the clutches of māyā, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā (BG 7.14), and they are being misled, the so-called science and nasty philosophy and economics and making them, training them as demons and rākṣasas. What is this civilization? So our movement is against this demonic civilization. It is really para-upakāra.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: But in, say in America, they argue that everybody's educated now. In America...

Prabhupāda: What educated? Educated means hippies. That's all. This is their education. They do not know what is meant by education. Education... University student was informed that "Next birth you may become a dog," so he said, "What is the wrong there?" This is education. Is that education, that he agrees to become a dog very happily? There is no education. Simply waste of time.

Satsvarūpa: But at least if there is extreme exploitation by a king or dictator it can't be changed. But the people...

Prabhupāda: There cannot be exploitation if things are made in order. Just like kṣatriya should be trained up as kṣatriya. Then he is king. Not that a bhangi by vote becomes a king. This is education.

śauryaṁ tejo dhṛtir dākṣyaṁ

yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam

dānam īśvara-bhāvaś ca

kṣātraṁ karma svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.43)

He must be very powerful, very strong, strongly built. You have seen the picture, Rāmacandra? Sturdy body. You see. Lakṣmaṇa. Because kṣatriya. They should be trained up as kṣatriya. Therefore the varṇāśrama college is required to train people who is able to become a brāhmaṇa, who is able to become a kṣatriya, who is able to become... In this way division must be.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Do you want anything tonight?

Prabhupāda: No.

Hari-śauri: Chānā?

Prabhupāda: No. Here is something here.

Hari-śauri: Rasagullā, yes.

Prabhupāda: If I require, I'll take. So Gandhi discovered, and the discovery was there Surendranath Ban... That they're exploiting us, so noncooperate. They are ruling over us by our cooperation, so let us noncooperate." But that is a foolish policy. Poverty-stricken country, how they can noncooperate? That was not successful, but this program, Subhash Bose's tit-for-tat, military, that was successful. They're keeping our men as soldiers and police, and by their strength they're ruling over India. And Subhash Bose made a plan—the soldiers and police will noncooperate. They'll join his INA. And when they began to join Indian National Army, these intelligent Britishers could understand, "Now it is no more possible. With whose cooperation, we shall kick?" Then they made a friendly settlement. Friendly means "Divide it so that they'll perpetually fight, and let us go."

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there some mention in the Bhāgavatam about this, that the religious men will wear only the clothes to make a profit? That people will wear religious clothing simply for making profit? Now religion is a good business. They take it like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Good business.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They exploit the sentiment.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A man, when he thinks of his occupation, he thinks, "I can still get married and be the leader of the church. I'll get married, have a family, and this will be my profession, to be a priest."

Hari-śauri: Yes. That's what it is. It's a profession only.

Prabhupāda: Profession.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Rajda: No, no, we'll do this immediately, and even if necessary, I will fight with the government. They have got to do it. Only thing is if you can give me some note, what are the hurdles...

Prabhupāda: Bring some paper. Write it. Immediately begin to do this. They are coming from very rich, respectable family. They have not come here to earn money for exploit India. They have no business to do this. I can guarantee that they will bring money from America and live here—not touch a single paisa of India. Now, suppose there are one hundred Americans, and if I am bringing ten lakhs of rupees per month, then what is the per capita?

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So? Now, this nationalism idea, so you have trace out the whole history. By introducing this nationalism, what improvement gave? Nationalism, the leader, it began in Europe, the Romans. They wanted to spread. Where are the Romans now? Carthagian, old history, Egyptian, Grecian, then, later on, Moguls or then British. So where are these groups? "Combined together, exploit others." That was, that means, a gang of rogues. Rogues and thieves, they... And by doing that, what they have actually done? The Romans, now their broken buildings are there. And people go to see the fun, how they used to enjoy. What is that called?

Conversation: Vairagya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: So that principle about living together and salary...

Prabhupāda: That is...

Girirāja: That is meant to apply everywhere in the society.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. This is exploitation of the society.

Girirāja: I know. Since I've been preaching more, I've been able to see how much labor and endeavor is going in just to maintain so many idle people. I know you've been saying this for a long time, and now, you know, I feel the strength to actually change that, that only those who are really sincere workers can stay.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise no need. We need their service, but not by being salaried. That is not good.

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: New printing is fifteen lakhs, one time, abridged edition.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It will distribute India's glories. People will feel obliged to India, that "We have got this knowledge from India." Actually knowledge is here. There is no such knowledge all over the world.

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra

(CC Adi 9.41)

Paropakāra. India is meant for paropakāra. India is not meant for exploiting others. But unfortunately the knowledge is... Sarasvatī jñāna-khale yathā satī. We have got the store of knowledge, but we have kept it locked up, not distributed to the world. They are called jñāna-khala. One who has knowledge but he does not want to distribute it, that is, they are termed as jñāna-khala. So we should not be jñāna-khala. In India there is storehouse of spiritual knowledge, and every one of us should make our life successful by assimilating this knowledge and distribute all over the world. There is customer; there is appreciation. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (Bengali conversation) Britishers made a mistake. They made a empire, very good, but they did not rule for the people. They wanted to rule over the world for their own sake, London. Their policy was all big, big brain from England should go outside, earn money and bring in London, exploit. Therefore it is... Otherwise it was a very grand plan. They were very nice. This was suggested by one of their viceroy in India, Lord Curzon, that "India is a vast country, very cultured country. Don't try to exploit them. Better send one royal family member to become king here and rule as one empire. Don't discriminate." The others did not like the idea. "Make England's men king in India. The people in general, they like king. And rule over them and have good relationship." These rascals, they did not like.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That Rajput is Rajasthan?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Akbar appointed this Mansingha, who has made these temples. He was commander-in-chief. Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of the Moslem army.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The all governmental power was in the hand of Indians. Only the Muslims were there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they did what the Curzons suggested.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they know. And besides that, they did not exploit. Whatever enjoyment they did—within India, not that taking away the money outside India. Therefore it was very good relationship. And Indian people, they do not mind who is king. "We pay our tax. That's all." That is the attitude from the very beginning. The general people, they did not mind whether Kurus or war(?) will reign over or the Pāṇḍavas. "We don't mind. You become fight. You become king. We give our tax. That's all." So there was no fight with the subject between king and citizens. This democracy is a demon-crazy. It has no value. It is simply waste of time and effort and no feeling, demon-crazy. I do not know who introduced this. In India still there is no demon-crazy. Indian king always. Everyone is taking part in politics. What is this nonsense? It is meant for the kṣatriyas. They can fight and defend. The rascals, bhangis, chamars, and they are also in politics. Harijanas... Every one of them vote, and everyone has got the right to become king, minister. Not this. The real thing they are missing, the mode of life, the aim of life. (break)...care. Everyone is theorizing, everyone is educated, and everyone is, they're hippie. That's all.

Letter from Yugoslavia--'Books!' -- June 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The whole Vṛndāvana Gosai, they are perturbed that this temple is becoming very popular.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How are they feeling about it, the Vṛndāvana Gosais?

Prabhupāda: Envious. They know the future. This will be the first-class temple. This is already.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This temple will be more important than Bankabihari.

Prabhupāda: Hm, hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm sure.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are simply exploiting, and our mission is to give. That is the difference. They know their deficiency, that their business will have to... Common sense.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? It's about nine, past nine o'clock now. Maybe you'd like to...

Prabhupāda: We can go.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Finished. I remember we were walking with you. So it was near the... You know, near Bury Place there's a little park.

Prabhupāda: That is very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. There was one building that they were constructing, and before finishing the building they were living in it, and you said, "This means this British Empire is finished. They cannot even afford to finish the building before living in it. This is a sign that they are not opulent at all." I remember you said that. They're not very opulent, the British.

Prabhupāda: No. Their opulence finished. Actually they're poor country. Simply by exploiting other countries they became rich. Otherwise they are... Naturally they are poor.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Peasants. Didn't Hitler say something about that?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think Hitler said they're...

Prabhupāda: "Shopkeeper's nation." Yes. Naturally they are very poor. They cannot produce anything. It is so cold.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...known as a religious man so that they can do business very exploitively. They were called by Guru Mahārāja, dharma-dhvaji.(?) Exploit (Bengali). Guru Mahārāja used to say dharma-dhvaji. "Daṇḍavat class." Yes. He knows simply to offer daṇḍavats. (laughs) Even so nice word: "Oh, he's a daṇḍavat class." My Guru Mahārāja was very humorous. He was a Calcutta bhap.(?) Therefore he liked me. All others, they came from East Bengal. I was the only disciple, Calcutta.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: We don't want any profit. We don't want any profit. You produce. You eat. You chant. Organize. Don't go outside.

Yaśomatīnandana: Don't go to the cities.

Prabhupāda: No. Be man of character. No illicit sex, no intoxication. Vaiṣṇava. Eat sufficiently, dress sufficiently. Live very comfortably. Whatever profit is there, it should be invested again for books. That's... Because we are investing money, our land... Therefore we are not profited. Beneficiary, you. It is a cooperative society. You produce your needs, live comfortably, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Our only interest is that you are taking interest in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, working. Otherwise we don't want to exploit you. That is not... If there is no sufficient, you can... We help you manage it. You manage your own affair. We give you direction. Live happily, chant. This should be... Will not they agree?

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes, they will very much agree.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is soul-killing civilization, this kind way of life, especially European countries. Anywhere you can inhabit it. It is not very difficult. A cottage; you can produce your own food anywhere. Am I right?

Haṁsadūta: Yes, Prabhupāda. We will do it.

Prabhupāda: And money, spend for Kṛṣṇa—for Kṛṣṇa's palace, for Kṛṣṇa's temple, for Kṛṣṇa's worship, gorgeous, as gorgeously as... Not for false... This is the human civilization. And to organize this, varṇāśrama will help you to divide the society—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya—as there is division in the body. That will help. Don't waste human form of body for sense gratification. I wanted to introduce this. Now I have given you ideas. You can do it. You are all intelligent. For Caitanya Mahāprabhu's para-upakāra... So you do good to others. Not exploit others. Any human being who has been bestowed by this body has the capacity to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Give them chance and make situation favorable. Is that clear?

Haṁsadūta: Yes, it's clear, Prabhupāda. You have made everything very clear.

Room Conversation With Sri Narayana and Rama-Krsna Bajaj -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu, para-upakāra. Especially those who have taken birth in India...

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra

(CC Adi 9.41)

(Hindi) This is Indian culture, para-upakāra. Indian culture is not meant for exploiting others. Para-upakāra. That is human life, para-upakāra. And that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Bhārata, especially... (Hindi—Indians leave for darśana; kavirāja and Bhakti-caru enter)