Prabhupāda: A community is suspicious of another community. So how can you have peace and prosperity? Suspiciousness means animal, animalistic. A dog is suspicious of another dog. As soon as it finds another dog, immediately begins to bark." Row! Row! Row!" So is that human civilization? So what is the mistake of the human civilization? The mistake of the human civilization is that they have forgotten the relationship with God. So here is the scientific statement of our relationship with God. And then, according to that relationship, exactly in the same way, just like understanding your relationship, your citizenship in a state you can act nicely, similarly if we know our relationship with God, we can act very nicely and that is peaceful life. And besides that, this life, the present life is not all. We have got life after death. That is a fact. Just like we are continuously in life, in this present life, you were a child, I was a child. Everyone of us were a child. That was a life. Then we became boy, then we became youth. Now we are, I am becoming old, and generally, when this body will be useless, I will have to take another body. This is the way.
Exactly (Conversations 1968 - 1973)
Expressions researched:
"exactly"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Interviewer: He is the world's most famous guru at the present time.
Prabhupāda: He's not guru. But he's advertised his name like that (laughs). A guru is different thing. But people are, in your country, in the western part of the country, of the world, people are after some spiritual information. So anyone who comes professing as spiritualist, he is welcome, and if he flatters, then it is very convenient to get followers. So we don't follow exactly in that way. We follow exactly the principles of Vedic ways of life. So in that way, sex life for a sannyāsī is strictly prohibited.
Interviewer: We're talking with Swami A.C. Bhaktivedanta, head of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. We'll be back in a minute. (break) KGO.
Caller: Yes, I wanted to ask the Swami if he didn't think that the teachings of Jesus Christ expressed exactly what he's saying. I'm not speaking of orthodox Christianity as such, but the essence of what Jesus said about the Father within and "If thine eye be single, thy body shall be full of light," and the beautiful phrase that he said, "Before Abraham was, I am." Has he studied anything about the teachings of Jesus?
Interviewer: Swami?
Prabhupāda: We don't disagree with the teachings of Lord Jesus Christ because he's speaking also the same thing which we are also speaking, about the science of God.
Devotee (2): There won't be anybody left in America.
Prabhupāda: No. In our connection, our students, let him come here. So these two boys, Jayapatāka and Vaikuṇṭha, in the same process receive. And therefore I was thinking that let us start press and restaurant and engage all these boys. So you can... (break) ...center. Why don't you try for that building?
Janārdana: The building, the Strathcona, the government building.
Prabhupāda: That is very nice, but other building in front of our temple, just not in exactly front. That big signboard.
Janārdana: Oh, 16,000, 15,000 square feet, a dollar sixty a foot?
Prabhupāda: Dollar sixty?
Janārdana: Yes. We are paying forty-nine cents a foot, and they are asking there a dollar sixty a foot. They are asking three times more rent than we are paying. It's very expensive.
Prabhupāda: How many..., there? 16,000?
Janārdana: 15,000 square feet. It is a fortified place because they keep furs. They keep animal furs there, and animal furs are very expensive, and thieves very often break in. So I think that one of the reasons why it's so expensive is because it's fortified.
Prabhupāda: I do not follow. What is that?
Janārdana: It is a place... (break) ...of animals, and they are very expensive furs.
Prabhupāda: Yes, very expensive.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Govinda dāsī: Could you describe Kṛṣṇa's pastimes as cowboy whenever He goes out in the morning with the cowherds boys?
Prabhupāda: Yes, you can... Because... Have you seen how the... You have no experience here in your country. Have you got any experience? But in India we have got experience how in the morning the cowboy takes some food from the mother and with the cows he goes to the field. The cows are let loose on the grazing ground. They are enjoying, and this cowboy is sometimes singing. The flute, Kṛṣṇa's flute is because He is cowboy. The cowboys still play in that flute. In India you'll find. Because the cows are let... They are doing their own work, and what this boy will do? They are playing. There are many cowherds boys, they are playing. Sometimes playing on flutes, sometimes sporting, sometimes eating. So Kṛṣṇa was exactly doing like that. All the cowboy friend went with Him. Kṛṣṇa was, of course, a very rich man's son. His father was very rich. So He used to take with Him very nice foodstuff, lugdoo, kacaurī. And other, His poor friends, they were taking capātīs, dry capātīs. (laughs) So they were enjoying, dividing, "Your food, my food, his food." And sometimes there was some trouble in the forest because Kamsa was after Kṛṣṇa to kill Him. He was sending his assistants. So some asura would come, Bakāsura, Aghāsura, and Kṛṣṇa would kill. And the boys would return and narrate the story to their mother. "Oh, my dear mother! Such and such thing happened and Kṛṣṇa killed it! Very..." (laughter) The mother will, "Oh, yes, our Kṛṣṇa is very wonderful!" (laughter) So Kṛṣṇa was their enjoyment. That's all. The mother is speaking of Kṛṣṇa, the boy is speaking of Kṛṣṇa. So therefore they did not know anything but Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa. Whenever there is some trouble, "Oh Kṛṣṇa." When there is fire, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa." That is the beauty of Vṛndāvana. Their mind is absorbed in Kṛṣṇa. Not through philosophy. Not through understanding, but natural love. "Kṛṣṇa is our village boy, our relative, our friend, our lover, our master." Some way or other, Kṛṣṇa. That is the beauty. Therefore Śukadeva Gosvāmī is describing the playing of the boys.
Prabhupāda: Something you forget, but I tell you repeatedly, you hear; you remember. Is it not? Here something you have forgotten completely, and I remind you constantly. Then don't you remember?
Devotee (1): Yes. But I don't understand how is it that we forgot it... How can we remember...
Prabhupāda: Forgot, you forgot. That is your nature. You forget so many things. You cannot remember what you were doing exactly at this time yesterday. Can you remember immediately? Forgetfulness is our nature. We are very minute; therefore our..., we are subjected to the quality of forgetfulness. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was asking Kṛṣṇa that "How I can believe that you told this philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā to Vivasvān?" He said that "In... I, first of all, I told to Vivasvān." So in reply to that question, Kṛṣṇa said that "Both you and I had many, many births before, but you have forgotten; I remember." That is the difference between the Supreme Lord and ourself. He does not forget. He remembers everything, past, present, future, all, but we forget. That is the difference between God and living entity. We are subjected to forgetfulness. So we forget; again, if it is reminded, we remind. That is our nature. So at the present moment we are forgetful of our eternal relationship with Kṛṣṇa. And then, by good association, by constant chanting, hearing, remembering, we again revoke our old consciousness. That is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Kīrtanānanda: What was Arjuna's relationship to Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Friendship. That is also... There are five kinds of relationship. Just like "God is great." That is simply feeling the greatness of God. Then, when he feels exactly how God is great, then naturally there will be an inclination to serve God. That is called servitude. First neutrality estimation... That is called śānta-rasa, neutral, no activity but simply appreciating, "God is great," simply appreciation. And then servitude. When the appreciation is complete, "Oh, why not serve God? He is so great. He is giving us so many things. Let me return something. Let me do some service of Him." Servitude. That is further development of the appreciation of the greatness of God. And then further development is friendship. Friendship means... Service means I ask you, "Please give me a glass of water." You give me. And friendship means you are thinking, "How my friend will be... Now he may be wanting a glass of water." So before asking me, if you give me, "I think you may require a glass of water," that is friendship. Friendship means feeling friend's welfare always. Suhṛt. Friendship is not simply chatting. Friendship means thinking, "How my friend will be happy?" This is friendship.
Allen Ginsberg: Pari nirvāṇa, yes.
Guest (1): Pari nirvāṇa pose, exactly. Twenty-two feet he was, long. And it was made just after his death.
Allen Ginsberg: What I had understood is that like the Jews and the Muslims, the original first few centuries of Buddhist meditation made use of a wheel for the dharma, or a parasol, or a bo tree as the image of Buddha, as at Sanchi. But no, but no...
Guest (1): So long Buddha was living. After that, when Buddha died, they started making his statue, I think.
Prabhupāda: yes. That is the archeological evidence. Archeological evidence is that Buddha's statues were original.
Allen Ginsberg: The museum at Mathurā, I think, had the earliest human statues of Buddha, which are Greek nature.
Guest (1): Because Candragupta's style... (Bengali) And they had many temple...
Prabhupāda: No, Buddha is worshiped by statue. That is historical. That is historical fact. And there are many temples in Burma, China, and in Japan, all these Buddhist countries. But these Buddhist temples began not exactly after Buddha's disappearance. At least, after one thousand years. That is a fact.
Prabhupāda: When He was...? Description of His birth?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we will have a scene showing the people chanting by the..."
Prabhupāda: One scene you have to show that in the Ganges water people are taking bath, and there is on the sky beginning of the moon eclipse, lunar eclipse. And they are all chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and taking bath. And exactly at that time Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared. This is one scene. And the appearance of Caitanya Mahāprabhu should be underneath a tree. Under this scene, this scene, one... Advaita Prabhu's wife, Śrīvāsa's wife, they were elderly, and all other women of the village, they immediately came with presentation. And some of the demigods, they also came, I mean to say, disguising themselves as ordinary men, with presentation. And His father got so many valuable presentations. And then again, some of the professional dancers, they came. So he distributed charity to them. In this way, that function... Try to...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Was Nārada there? Did Nārada Muni come?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Nārada Muni also came. You can show that. Yes. all the devatas, all the demigods came. Nārada Muni, Brahmā, Śiva. They came in disguise, and their wife, Savitri, and then Umā. Umā is the wife of Lord Śiva. In that way you can show so many demigods and their wives coming.
Prabhupāda: Not any spiritual master.
John Lennon: True master. How are we to tell one from the other?
Prabhupāda: It is not that any spiritual master. Sampradāya. Sampradāya means a particular line of disciplic succession.
John Lennon: But, you see, Maharishi said exactly the same thing about his mantra's coming from the Vedic, with seemingly as much authority as you, and he was probably right. So how... It's like having too many fruits on a plate, and you can't only eat two of them.
Prabhupāda: No. If mantra is coming down in that way, then it is potency; the potency is there.
John Lennon: But Hare Kṛṣṇa is the best one.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yoko Ono: Well, if Hare Kṛṣṇa is the best one, what is the reason why we have to bother to even say anything else other than this one?
Prabhupāda: You don't require to bother to say anything else. We say that Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is sufficient for one's perfection.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, whatever he may be, he does not go up to Kṛṣṇa. (chuckles)
George Harrison: Personality, anyway, of...
John Lennon: Well, that's what he used to say in exactly the same way, about anybody else.
Prabhupāda: No, no. He cannot be because he does not speak about anything Kṛṣṇa. A peon comes, he does not know anything about post office—what kind of peon he is?
Yoko Ono: No, but his post office... He was talking about his post office.
Prabhupāda: No, you cannot create post office. Post office one. Government post office.
Yoko Ono: Yes, of course. I'm sure there's only one post office.
Prabhupāda: You cannot create that he is... Somebody says, "I belong to another post office." Then he is at once unauthorized.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Devotee (6): Except he would take liver for his health.
Prabhupāda: Liver?
Devotee (6): Yes. He used to take some liver periodically for his health.
Prabhupāda: Medicine. There are many liver extract preparations.
Devotee (6): No, not liver extract. Maybe. I don't know exactly. But I know he used to take liver. Not cod liver oil or anything.
Prabhupāda: No, liver extract preparations there are many medicines. For anemic patient liver extract is recommended.
Devotee (6): That's all right for us to take?
Prabhupāda: No, but if you are going to die, then you can take.
Yamunā: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: When required for such trouble, if you are going to die, then, to save yourself, you can.
Haṁsadūta: Yes. Exactly.
Prabhupāda: They are very successful. They are standing: "We don't want this." But they must stand. So they could not give the standing. But here is... Oh, here is standing. Therefore this movement is successful. They want some standing. And where is the standing? (Hindi) So unless you get a solid ground you cannot stand. You'll fall down.
Guest (2) (Indian man): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ. Kirāṭa-huṇāndhra-pulin... Huh? (Hindi) (break) ...obeisance to guru. Then his guru, then his guru, up to Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) ...paramparā system. You cannot directly approach God. That is useless. You have no power to approach God directly. That is not possible. Guru kṛṣṇa kṛpayā (CC Madhya 19.151). (Hindi) Let them study this philosophy. We have got books, enough books. One cannot read all these books even throughout whole life.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (3): Gītā jñāna itself is given by Lord incorporeal, not to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, it is told, at the time the jñāna was given had a body which became divya Vedānta(?).
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is your interpretation.
Guest (3): That is exactly what...
Prabhupāda: No, you say. Anyone who... Anyone... Whatever he says, he thinks like that, exact. That is another thing. But we know that Kṛṣṇa had no difference between His body and soul. He is absolute. Now, you are talking from the point of view that Kṛṣṇa's body and Kṛṣṇa's soul is different.
Guest (3): Ah, no... In every body...
Prabhupāda: That is not the fact. That is not the fact.
Guest (1): Sir, Kṛṣṇa could not the two...
Prabhupāda: No, no, you say, "could not," but we do not say like that. Now who will settle up this thing? You say, but I do not say.
Prabhupāda: My sama-darśi is that why only the Hindus shall know Kṛṣṇa? The world should know Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (6): World should know also.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (2): What exactly Kṛṣṇa was and what is His teachings? That is what... teachings.
Prabhupāda: So if you... If the Hindus refuse to know, what can I do? If the Hindus refuse to know, then what can I do?
Guest (6): There is no challenge to anyone.
Pratyatoṣa: In Norway I got it, and then there's duty.
Prabhupāda: The same machine?
Pratyatoṣa: Yes, exactly.
Prabhupāda: Then bring it, it is working. Then we can utilize this one for other things.
Pratyatoṣa: OK, fine. But maybe someday then I can get this, do you think?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Pratyatoṣa: Do you think someday we could use that machine?
Prabhupāda: I do not know, but I have got experience Tanberg is very nice.
Pratyatoṣa: Yeah, they're very reliable. They're reliable machines. And also, my job is computer programming, and I think that computers could be used.
Prabhupāda: Computer?
Pratyatoṣa: Yeah, they could be used in many, many ways in the Society. Like one... I think the most important use it could be put to is for helping in transcribing and editing and composing. A computer can do composing automatically.
Prabhupāda: Automatically?
Pratyatoṣa: Sure. It's all automatic, because it's actually just a mechanical process, just getting the lines to come out even at the end and everything.
Prabhupāda: You can learn that?
Devotee (4): I already know computer programming, Prabhupāda.
Śyāmasundara: So he's, he promised them perpetual lease.
Prabhupāda: At what price it was being sold?
Dhanañjaya: Two and a half million pounds.
Mr. Arnold: Two and a half, which is exactly the price that I told them to put the bid in for. I went over...
Prabhupāda: Two and a half million.
Mr. Arnold: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: What Dāyananda didn't tell us is that the bank was prepared to finance the whole thing.
Prabhupāda: Huh!
Śyāmasundara: The whole thing.
Mr. Arnold: Well the bank and the building society.
Śyāmasundara: One building society and one bank combinedly would have financed the whole thing, but he sent us a letter that said only two-thirds, they would finance two-thirds.
Prabhupāda: So he is not very intelligent. A missed opportunity.
Mr. Arnold: See, I went to the Midland Bank, to various departments, and I found out almost to within a penny what exactly what it would raise. Of course, some of the people that put in the bids it happened were Midland Bank customers. I know I shouldn't have done it, but I did it, and I...
Prabhupāda: The bank was prepared to finance it, and he missed that opportunity?
Śyāmasundara: Yeah, and he didn't even tell us.
Mr. Arnold: The bank was only going to loan two-thirds. Then the building society next door was going to help, and also the National Westminster was prepared to help, I'm quite sure. But of course, I think...
Prabhupāda: It was not tactfully done.
Śyāmasundara: No.
Prabhupāda: Not intelligent.
Guest (2): Yes. Fine. Fine. Let's look at the "yes's." What exactly can you eat?
Revatīnandana: We can eat anything: fruit, vegetables, milk products, grains, sugar, nuts, all kinds of vegetable foodstuffs.
Guest (2): Broadly speaking, anything that comes out of the earth.
Revatīnandana: Yes. And we can eat it after it's been offered to the Lord with love and devotion. This we call prasādam or Kṛṣṇa's mercy.
Prabhupāda: Actually, any foodstuff is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Any foodstuff is Kṛṣṇa's, God's mercy. Just like grain. You cannot manufacture grain. It is by God's mercy you get it.
Mensa Member: The fact that I got here is impossible to comprehend. (indistinct) in these very brief terms.
Dr. Weir: But if you accept its existence then it's present in everybody. Exactly what you're saying. Whether they utilize it, whether, as you call it, uncovered, or to the degree to which they are conscious of it, is a different thing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a question of consciousness, development of consciousness.
Dr. Weir: That's where your line is so very good in saying that the real evolution of man's mind has been his ability to produce more and more the functions of whatever the mind may be. But the mind is just as indivisible as God. We know what the brain is, but we don't know what the mind is. Yet more and more of it under conscious control instead of being irrationally eruptive(?).
Prabhupāda: But there is the summum bonum of that realization. That is explained in Bhagavad-gītā: bahūnāṁ janmanām ante, jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). After many, many births of this mental evolutionary process, when actually he becomes wise he becomes God conscious and surrenders to God. That is real evolution(?). That evolution will go on. But when it comes to the summit, that is God realization. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). God is cause of all causes. That is final realization. Unless one comes to that point he has not come to the perfection of evolutionary process of the mind and intelligence.
Prabhupāda: Another thing is. Just like grass, straw. The cows are eating straw and giving the most vitaminous food, milk, full of vitamins A and D. But if you scientifically say that there is, I mean to say, vitamins in the grass and straw, then you eat straw. Vitamins is there. Why it is (indistinct). Your analysis of enzyme and vitamin. How you can say milk does not... (break) ...then you'll die. Why this law is there? The cow is producing most vitaminous food, milk, by simply eating dry grass and straw.
Dr. Weir: No, with respect, Swami, no, by simply imbibing at the same time bacteria which flourish in its intestines and are necessary for it to be able to metabolize this straw. We couldn't metabolize straw...
Prabhupāda: But you're lacking that bacteria. You're lacking that bacteria. The bacteria which the cows have, you haven't got.
Dr. Weir: We've got them but we've killed them.
Mensa Member: ...another analogy.
Dr. Weir: Exactly. This is the trouble. It's unwise... If you can accept the concept as a whole there's no need to try and give an analogy.
Prabhupāda: There is no distinction in higher status because we say that everything that we see that is manifestation of God's energy.
Dr. Weir: Exactly.
Prabhupāda: Energy. So in that sense, if it is God's energy there is nothing material. It is material when we forget God. That is material.
Dr. Weir: Well I would have said... You're rather going back to the analogy of the light. If there's no light there you can't see whether there's anything there or not. Directly you have the light it enables you to see it. But the things exist independent of whether the light was there all along.
Prabhupāda: Light is in relationship with the fire. So light is not different from the fire. Unless there is fire there is no light. There is no heat. So as soon as you feel heat or see light the fire is there. In higher sense those who can realize immediately realize that there is fire. Just like here there's light. Immediately you can understand there is fire. There is electricity. So it is a question of realization. In the higher realization there is nothing matter. Everything is spiritual. Simply when you forget God that is material. That is material.
Dr. Singh: Love of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That qualification... Love of Kṛṣṇa is not so easy. We have to reach that point after many processes. Exactly in the same way, to become a secretary of the president, personal assistant, it is not very easy job. It requires some qualification. Similarly, to serve Kṛṣṇa, it requires some qualification. And what is that qualification? Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam: (CC Madhya 19.170) when we give up our designation. At the present moment, we are all designated: "I am Indian," "I am Christian," "I am American," "I am Pakistani," "I am Hindustani." These designations are going on. When you give up your designation, sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ (CC Madhya 19.170), that is mukti. "I am not Indian," "I am not Christian," "I am not Pakistani," "I am not Hindu." What you are?
Dr. Singh: (Sanskrit) śivo 'ham, śivo....
Prabhupāda: What you are? "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa." Śivo 'ham is the beginning. Śivo 'ham, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, that is the beginning realization. Just like "I am this," "I am Indian," "I am this." Then you have to think over, then what is my duty? This perception that I am Śiva or Maṅgala, I am spirit soul, then what is my duty? I am working now with the bodily concept of life: "I am Indian," "I am Kashmiri," "I am this," "I am that." So when I realize that I am neither Kashmiri nor Indian nor this nor that, I am śivo 'ham, or brahmāsmi, or I am eternal servant of God, Kṛṣṇa, that is your pure. Tat-paratvena nirmalam. When you come to that understanding, śivo 'ham understanding, brahmāsmi understanding, or eternal servant of God understanding, then your duty begins. That is bhakti. So, therefore, bhakti is not on the material platform. Bhakti is on the spiritual platform. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26).
Prabhupāda: He's a nonsense. Vaibhava, prabhāvā, expansion of Kṛṣṇa. When the body is similar, but the color of the body different, that is called vaibhava. Just like Balarāma. Balarāma. Kṛṣṇa's body and Balarāma, there is no bodily difference, but Kṛṣṇa is blackish, Balarāma is whitish. These things are described in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya. You don't read it? Huh?
Devotee (2): Yes, it's from the Teachings of Lord Caitanya. I wanted some explanation about all this...
Prabhupāda: That explanation is there. Why you are asking me? That is... I do not remember exactly what is the features of Vaibhava. That is there. But the vaibhava, prabhāvā, vaibhava, vilāsa, there are detailed description of Kṛṣṇa's expansions. They are described there. You can refer to. Prabhāvā, vaibhava, vilāsa, they are expansions of Kṛṣṇa's different avatāra, incarnation, and part, part of incarnation. So it is a huge list, and it's not always possible to remember them in detail. Better refer to the book. Is that all right?
Devotee (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: The teacher will remember all the work of the dictionary. (laughs) You can refer to the dictionary. (laughter) (end)
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is very good reason. There is no hope, better go to hell. (laughter) At least there is something. Never mind. Yes, hopelessness is not good.
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Actually, that is their philosophy, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I've heard people say exactly that, "All the things I want to do are for the people that are going to hell, therefore I want to go to hell. Why should I go anywhere else?" (indistinct) drinking, smoking, etc... And so they will.
Prabhupāda: There was a story that the priest was describing about the hell, so they did not respond. But when he said, "There is no newspaper," then, "Oh, it is horrible." (laughter) Other conditions—that it is dark, it is very moist, and so many things described. But they were miners, they know that these things are happening daily, so what is the wrong in the hell? Then he stressed, "There is no newspaper." Then they will, "Oh, it is horrible." (laughter) So, according to one's taste the hellish conditions should described.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: The point is, a perfect devotee does not make any discrimination. Whatever is offered to Kṛṣṇa, it is nectar. That's all. Just like exactly Kṛṣṇa accepts anything from a devotee. "Whatever is offered to Me by My devotee," He accepts. The same thing for a devotee. (break) ...point?
Bob: Yes.
Prabhupāda: The perfect devotee does not make any discrimination. But if I am not a perfect devotee, I have got discrimination, why shall I imitate a perfect devotee? That will not be possible to assimilate or digest. Because I am not a perfect devotee. These things are... A devotee should not be a foolish man. It is said that kṛṣṇa yei bhaje se baḍa catura. So a devotee knows his position and he's intelligent enough to deal with others accordingly. (break) ...it is posted? The... Specifically, it is prescribed that one should perform yajña. Yajña means to act for satisfaction of Lord Viṣṇu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said... So shall I stop this fan? I think you can stop. You got? Otherwise much mosquitoes may disturb.
Prabhupāda: That is also stealing. Because it must belong to somebody.
Bob: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: How do you take it without his permission? You may not know exactly who is the proprietor, but you must know, "It must belong to somebody." That is knowledge. Sometimes we see on the road so many valuable things are lying, government property. You see? For repairing roads or electrical, so many things, valuable things are lying down. But a man may think that it is "Fortunately, it is lying there; so I take it." Is it not stealing?
Bob: It is stealing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He does not know that these are all government property. He takes away. That is stealing. And when he's caught he's arrested and he's punished. So similarly, whatever you are collecting... Suppose you are drinking a glass of water from the river. Is the river your property?
Bob: No.
Prabhupāda: Then? It is stealing. You have not created the river. You do not know who is the proprietor. Therefore it is not your property. So even if you drink a glass of water without the knowledge to whom it belongs you are a thief. So you think, "I'm honest." But factually you are thief. (Speaks to someone in Bengali) Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya (BG 7.8). You must remember Kṛṣṇa that "Kṛṣṇa, it is Your creation, so kindly allow me to drink it." This is honesty. This is honesty. Therefore a devotee always thinks of Kṛṣṇa in all activities. "Oh, it is Kṛṣṇa's." Sarvatra sphuraya tara iṣṭa-deva mūrti. This is honesty. (Speaks to someone in Bengali) So without Kṛṣṇa consciousness everyone is a rascal, is a thief, is a rogue, is a robber, these qualifications. Therefore our conclusion is anyone who does not understand Kṛṣṇa, he has no good qualification. Neither he's honest, neither he has knowledge. Therefore he's a third-class man. Is that correct? What do you think, Girirāja?
Girirāja: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Ninety-two?
Dr. Kapoor: Ah, you don't know yourself. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Yes, actually Kapoorji, I do not know how things are going like this. I tell you frankly. I have no credit. But things are going on like this. It is something like—of course, I am not comparing exactly—just like Kṛṣṇa could not understand about His potency and, therefore He became Rādhārāṇī's feature to understand Himself. So... Of course, I... This is a comparison. Things are taking very wonderfully. Very wonderfully. Just see these boys and girls, how seriously they have taken.
Dr. Kapoor: Oh, yes, there is no doubt about their earnestness, and people have...This is just what strikes people. How can these people be so sincere and so earnest?
Prabhupāda: So I simply...
Dr. Kapoor: They are beating Indians. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: I simply advise them that you regularly chant the sixteen rounds. Not more, you cannot make... You cannot imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura. But there must be one saṅkhyā. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna. They are observing that and the regulative principles: no illicit sex, no intoxication, no meat-eating, no gambling. And they are following other instructions, so they are wonderfully.
Prabhupāda: Oh. He has... So you are also out. (laughter)
Devotee: It's really a difficult problem.
Prabhupāda: Ah, no problem. GBC means now they should tour very extensive. That is the first principle, the GBC. Not sit down (in) one place and pass resolution. No, they must be active. They must act like me. As I am old man, I am traveling all over the world. Now to give me relief, the GBC members... I shall expand into twelve more so that they can exactly work like me. Gradually they will be initiators. At least first initiation. You must make advance. That is my motive. So, in that way I want to divide it in twelve zones. And we have to make more propaganda throughout the whole world. Now if you think that the world is so big, twelve members are insufficient, then you can increase more than that and make the zone similarly divided. It is world affair after all.
Devotee: Srila Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Devotee: The reason why we have thirteen here is because Bali-mardana, he is actually at the Press, he doesn't actually have a zone at this time.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Devotee: So Madhudviṣa is taking my zone.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Ātreya Ṛṣi(?): War, killing.
Prabhupāda: So, how they can (indistinct)? They do not know and do not actually want to see people enlightened. It is not their policy. It is simply make some show. Show means spend another set-up amount, investigation. Their men, the government men, they'll get money, that's all.
Ātreya Ṛṣi(?): Jaya.
Prabhupāda: And finished. Engage some rascal report. This is going on.
Ātreya Ṛṣi(?): Exactly, exactly.
Prabhupāda: Very dangerous.
Ātreya Ṛṣi(?): They are all thieves, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Thieves, stealing from each other.
Prabhupāda: That's all. They don't want to see people very enlightened. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." But at least how to become wise, that injunction has been given to you. Now you try to save the country, how to do it. These people will not be. You'll have to educate the people, and they'll vote you to the senators, president, and then your country will be nice. Just like by Kurukṣetra, Kṛṣṇa smashed all Duryodhana and company, and He posted Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja. That is the Kṛṣṇa's politics. He wanted to smash all these demons and have His own men posted on the royal throne. When Kali could not penetrate into the daily behavior of the people, he planned killing of Parīkṣit Maharaja. So, one Kali brāhmaṇa cursed him to death, for no fault practically. Therefore the brāhmaṇas of this age, they are condemned. The so-called caste brāhmaṇas, they're condemned. That is lamented by the father of the boy who cursed Parīkṣit Maharaja. (japa) (end)
Devotee (1) (woman): Prabhupāda, is Lord Caitanya always carrying on saṅkīrtana in the spiritual world?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He is the father of the saṅkīrtana movement. Saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ. This is the statement in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. This Lord, incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, is worshiped by saṅkīrtana yajña, and those who are intelligent, sumedhasaḥ, sharp brain, they worship this Lord by saṅkīrtana. This is the statement in the Bhāgavata. And, therefore, we worship Him with saṅkīrtana. This picture, He is being worshiped by saṅkīrtana. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti (SB 11.5.32). And they are all big men Śrī Advaita, Śrī Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa, and others, followers. That is the proof. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇam, He is fair complexioned, but He is always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-varṇam iti, He is describing the science of Kṛṣṇa. These are the statement, and He is doing exactly the same thing. His accepting sannyāsa order is also mentioned in the śāstra. So everything we have to accept through three channels: sādhu, śāstra, guru. Saintly person, they you should accept; guru you should accept; and it must be mentioned in the śāstra. Guru cannot manufacture something. He must quote from the śāstra and then tell to his disciple. So disciple, as soon as he receives a message from guru corroborated by the śāstra, then he should take it as fact. This is the way. Why there should be any more doubt? What is your argument?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: There is no argument, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Frenchman: In society, the consumer society, (indistinct) miseries, what is the message you can bring people even in this day?
Prabhupāda: Yes. By accepting this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement they will be moralists, they will be religionists, they will be first-class (indistinct), first-class politician, everything perfect by accepting Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Frenchman: We have heard from not such a great master who has (indistinct) ...highest spiritual principles, (indistinct) ...like socialism and spiritual communism, he'd like to know exactly what this means.
Prabhupāda: Spiritual communism means that these so-called communists they are concerned with the limited thing. Just like the communists in Russia or China, they are thinking of their country main only. They are not thinking of others. Or they're thinking only they human beings, not of the animals. But our spiritual comm... Communist means that we take care, not only of the human being, but of the animals also. We don't think that the human being is only our own community. We think every living is within the community, center being God. Just like spiritual our communism means... Just like I'm living in this house. I shall have to take care even for one lizard, that is also living entity. I shall have to take care of one rat, one mouse, even one snake, if he's living in one's house. That is spiritual community. The idea is nobody should starve. I have to see whether the leader is also given proper food. Just like people generally save foodstuff from the attack of other animals. But spiritual communism... (break) We ought to make them happy. We want to see everyone is happy. That is our mission. Actually all our students who are presently working with us they are feeling happiness... (indistinct) So everyone will be happy if they take to this movement. We want to see that everyone is happy. That is our mission. We don't want to exploit others.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Ah. So you can understand English then. So (Sanskrit). Duṣkṛtinaḥ means... kṛtiḥ means meritorious, very meritorious. But duṣkṛtiḥ. Whatever merit he has got... Nowadays at the present moment the civilization is so mad that everyone as human being... Any human being he has got some merit because he is not cat and dog. He's a man. As a man he has got brain, better than the cats and dogs. That's a fact. And actually they're doing so many things. Just like this picture. It is a very meritorious workmanship. So everyone can do some meritorious workmanship. But when that workmanship is diverted to, for the use of sinful activities... Just like one man is very meritorious, he's planning to form a party how to plunder. This requires merit. Without merit you cannot form a party. But the merit is being used for plundering, for harassing, for so many other sinful activities. So that is called duṣkṛtinaḥ. Merit is there but the merit is being misused for sinful activities. Therefore duṣkṛtiḥ. Just like modern scientist. It is meritorious that they have discovered the atomic bomb. The merit is used for killing. If you just use your merit so that man may live; that they're dying. Everyone is dying. So you have discovered a bomb which will accelerate death. Death, everyone is going to die. So if you manufacture something which will actually help my death, is that very meritorious? If you discover something that will stop my death, that is meritorious. But everyone is dying and you have discovered some machine so that you can die quickly. What is the merit? But people are appreciating, "Oh, this is meritorious." This is called duṣkṛtiḥ. Duṣkṛtiḥ, mean one has got merit, it is being spoiled for doing something wrong. This is called duṣkṛtiḥ. So such people, duṣkṛtinaḥ, who, one who is using the merit for sinful activities, he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. He cannot surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15) and rascal. Rascal means denying the existence of God. He's a rascal. Anyone who denies the existence of God, he's a rascal. Rascal means poor fund of knowledge. Everything... Suppose this is a country, Indonesia, nicely being managed; the roads are there; the policemen there, they're directing... Just yesterday we were trying to enter in a one way, policeman directs. So this symptom says that there is a good government. So any sane man, he'll see the cosmic manifestation—that the sun is rising exactly in time; the moon is rising exactly in time; the seasons are changing; the seas is in its position.
Pañcadraviḍa: In your lectures you emphasized two aspects must be there, jñāna and renunciation. So some knowledge is there, but that part of the difficulty is that with most of the devotees in every temple in India, is that they have not renounced these dirty things completely. They still are attached to sense gratification even on gross levels. So whether a sannyāsī or anybody interferes with their sense gratification, they tend to not oblige because they are attached to doing things the way they want. And they think because they are in a foreign country here, a long way from America where the standards are very rigid, that they can do any manner of nonsense and nobody will check them. And if you try to correct them, then they will only do it behind your back. We have seen this, with the sweet shops, with rising early, anything that interferes with them doing as, exactly as they please, they don't want to oblige. And this is in Calcutta, this is in Bombay, and it's happening here in Vṛndāvana. It's not something that's isolated here to the palace, but the devotees all over, they are just behaving on the level of sense gratification, and that's why there is so much rajas guṇa in the temples. So much rajas guṇa.
Prabhupāda: This is a fact. So how to correct it. If you do not correct yourself, how you can correct?
Pañcadraviḍa: Well we, many of us have tried to correct ourself, and as a result we have been accused of being separatist, simply because we don't want to go along with the nonsense that everybody else is doing, but we want to maintain some standard for ourself, of reading and chanting. Because we don't want to sit down and talk nonsense or do nonsense, and if you try to stop them they will not stop. So why we should fall down to that level? So we behave as separatist. We go into our room and we'll read, or we'll go into our room and chant, or we'll try and keep ourself clean, or try and do these things, and that is separatism because it's not falling into the level of māyā that's going on everywhere else in the temple, engaging in party politics and all these other things. That is, that is what I feel about it. Most of the devotees, they seem out of place.
Prabhupāda: Whatever is done is done. Now, you try to correct others by behaving yourself. Otherwise, there is no need of keeping so many men. We have attempted in Vṛndāvana. A few men may remain here. That's all. Otherwise, it will be not very nice to attract when people are attracted by seeing your behavior. They are seeing that, "Oh, Europeans and Americans, they have got such nice Vaiṣṇavas." They are attracted on that point. But if we are not to the standard point, they will immediately accuse, "Oh, they are..." So that should be corrected. The same principle, āpani ācari prabhu jīvere, we should behave ourselves nicely, then teach others. Then it will be (indistinct). Another, this is general principle, now we have discussed, now we try to follow. Another thing that Keśi-ghāṭa affair. Shall we make further progress? I acquired that property (indistinct). What is your opinion? From the circumstances as that is now, because any temple, it must be nicely, very nicely managed, otherwise you cannot attract. Our Los Angeles temple we want to attract people. So it is so nicely managed, very nicely managed. You have seen. So unless, that means there must be sufficient bank balance. Such a big temple.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The sun is a product of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes, energy. Yac cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala grahāṇām. Sun is working under the order of... Just like if you don't see the managing director or the proprietor of a firm, the immediate boss who is controlling you, you have to obey. In the office or in the factory. Similarly, you cannot see directly God, but God's agent is working. Why don't you obey? God's agent is working? How it is working? Yasyājñayā bhramati saṁbhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ, exactly in time by the order of Kṛṣṇa, rising exactly in the time, without any deviation even by 1/10,000th part of a second, astrological calculation. Is it not? So how it is working? Under whose order it is working? Śāstra says, "By the order of Kṛṣṇa." Yasya ājñayā. "Under whose order he is working," govindam ādi-puruṣam, "I worship that Govinda." The śāstra is giving you information, that he is working under, he must be working under... Otherwise why it is so accurate, so punctual, unless there is some direction? Unless there is order of God, why this big ocean is so obedient, it is not coming here? Why don't you study like this? Where is the difficulty? There must be some direction that "You Pacific Ocean, you are so big, that's all right, but you cannot come here. Remain up to this."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is like the mirage in the desert.
Prabhupāda: Yes, illusion, these are illusions. Āja-gala-stana-nyāya is applied for these rascals, those who are thinking that from matter life is coming. Exactly the same. They are thinking that here are nipples, there will milk come. Let us milk here.
Brahmānanda: But they are not getting, they are saying maybe in the future.
Prabhupāda: Yes, in future, yes. (laughter) In Sanskrit logic all these examples are there from nature's study.
Brahmānanda: Simple.
Prabhupāda: Simple, yes. Another is nagna-mātṛkā-nyāya. Nagna-mātṛkā-nyāya, just like sometimes if somebody says, "Mother, when you were a child, you were naked. Why do you put cloth now?" Nagna-mātṛkā-nyāya. The mother was naked when she was a child. Therefore she should remain naked still. That is nagna-mātṛkā-nyāya.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is what the research means. Research means to understand what was not known before.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Research means you admit that you are all fools and rascals. Research meant for whom? Who does not know. Otherwise where is the question of research? You do not know. You admit that. So so many mystic powers are there. You do not know how it is being done. Therefore you have to accept inconceivable power. And without accepting this principle of inconceivable power, there is no meaning of God. Not like that Bala-yogī became a God. So these are for the rascals, fools. But those who are intelligent, they will stress the inconceivable power. Just like we accept Kṛṣṇa as God—inconceivable power. We accept Rāma—inconceivable power. Not so cheaply. One rascal comes and says, "I am incarnation of God." Another rascal accepts. It is not like that. "Ramakrishna is God." We do not accept. We must see the inconceivable mystic power. Just like Kṛṣṇa, as a child, lifted a hill. This is inconceivable mystic power. Rāmacandra, He constructed a bridge of stone without pillar. The stone began to float: "Come on." So that is an inconceivable power. And because you cannot adjust this inconceivable power, when they are described, you say, "Oh, these are all stories." What is called? Mythology. But these great, great sages, Vālmīki and Vyāsadeva and other ācāryas, they simply wasted their time in writing mythology? Such learned scholars? And they have not interpreted that it is mythology. They have accepted it as actual fact. There was forest fire. All the friends and cowherd boys, they became disturbed. They began to see towards Kṛṣṇa: "Kṛṣṇa, what to do?" "All right." He simply swallowed up the whole fire. This is inconceivable mystic power. That is God. Aiśvarya-vairāgya-yaśo-'vabhodha-vīrya-śriyā. These six opulences in full. That is God. That inconceivable power, inconceivable energy or mystic power, we have got also. Very minute quantity. So many things are going on within our body. We cannot explain. The same example. My nails are coming exactly in the form. Although it is spoiled by disease, again it is coming. I do not know what machinery is going on, and the nail is coming, exactly fitting the position and everything. That is coming from my body. So that is mystic power. Even it is mystic power for me and to the doctors, everyone... They cannot explain.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: We, we... Exactly. When you say "we", you are also within it.
Krishna Tiwari: Of course I am.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: All right. Let's go beyond this, and see what is beyond this, and that's what Swamiji...
Krishna Tiwari: Beyond nobody knows.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: He knows.
Krishna Tiwari: Oh, I don't know.
Prabhupāda: No, beyond, therefore... No, no. Beyond... You see, as you say that you are within the law of nature.
Krishna Tiwari: Oh, yes, I agree. We all of us are.
Prabhupāda: So, somebody must be above law of nature.
Krishna Tiwari: Right, we all are. You, me, Swamiji, you, all of us are.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Exactly. Exactly.
Krishna Tiwari: Neither you are above me, nor you are below, nor I am above you. I may have respect for you, because I, on my own, believe that you are respectable. That is entirely different thing.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: That's up to you.
Krishna Tiwari: Then authority. That's what I'm saying. This is up to me. But authority and subjugation are, are the two things which will not come.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: It's a matter of your choice. Accepting...
Krishna Tiwari: It's a matter of personal choice.
Prabhupāda: If you are not under subjugation, that does not authority?
Krishna Tiwari: I'm no, I'm no, I'm no subjugation to anyone. I'm a part of the nature.
Prabhupāda: How is that you're not...
Krishna Tiwari: If nature moves, I move with it. If the nature makes me old, I get old.
Prabhupāda: You have here subjugation.
Krishna Tiwari: No. I have lot of time, just I can't find.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Exactly, exactly. You made your choice not to go after, or you cannot find it, you say.
Krishna Tiwari: No, that's, that's not... That's your words. That's not my words. My desire is to find more, much, much more than you can place this. (laughs)
Devotee: Fine. But about that person, you see, you can find and find and find. You've got an outlet. You can get his hair and analyze. Each hair you can see millions of atoms. You can count the atoms in each hair. You can go further and further and further. But if you don't know that is an elephant, that's...
Krishna Tiwari: No, we have to know.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: So we're talking about the whole, which includes, includes that creator.
Krishna Tiwari: Right.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Now, when...
Krishna Tiwari: I think we don't have much difference of opinion.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: And we go, to find about that creator, we go to the source of authority...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Exactly.
Krishna Tiwari: No. I believed in her. That's all I said.
Prabhupāda: You believe.
Krishna Tiwari: If she says... If she says he's my father, I believe.
Śyāmasundara: You think she's trying to cheat you?
Krishna Tiwari: No, I'm not. That's why I believe her. The question of authority does not come.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: So you have to believe there is an alternative beyond and above this law of nature.
Krishna Tiwari: Believe? I always said from the very beginning, beliefs are entirely different thing.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: And you have to understand where does this information come from. This doesn't come accidentally. It comes from the source of information. And this source of information we call the Vedas. It is not an accidental literature.
Prabhupāda: The Veda means knowledge.
Prabhupāda: That, then our knowledge is perfect and your knowledge...
Krishna Tiwari: Then sit and just request him to do something.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no.
Devotee (1): No. The process is given. If, he, he...
Prabhupāda: Just... We, the difference is that your process is imperfect because you do not know exactly who is the controller of the laws of nature.
Krishna Tiwari: But nobody else does know either.
Prabhupāda: I, nobody... I say know, still you say nobody knows.
Krishna Tiwari: Oh, yeah, I agree. That's your belief, but I don't think you know that.
Prabhupāda: Why belief? I say your belief also. That there is no controller there, that is also your belief.
Krishna Tiwari: No. There is a controller. I say you don't know.
Prabhupāda: Why you are giving so much importance to your method of understanding?
Krishna Tiwari: (laughs) Because there is only one each of us can do.
Prabhupāda: That is (indistinct). So if you give so much importance to your method of understanding, why don't you give importance to our method of understanding?
Krishna Tiwari: Well, I haven't seen the results of...
Prabhupāda: Your method is imperfect. I have seen.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Krishna Tiwari: Others is...
Prabhupāda: No, others are perfect.
Krishna Tiwari: Very imperfect, Swamiji. Very imperfect.
Prabhupāda: No, very perfect. Very perfect.
Krishna Tiwari: Exactly what I'm saying to... Well that's what I'm saying.
Śyāmasundara: What is your standard of perfection?
Krishna Tiwari: What?
Śyāmasundara: What is your standard of perfection?
Krishna Tiwari: My, well my, to understand the law of nature, first thing. Now, when, when scientists have gone to understand the law of nature... (end)
Haṁsadūta: In Bhagavad-gītā, it says that the soul is immovable. In the Second Chapter there is a verse that says the soul is immovable.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: What does that mean exactly? Are we not moving? In that verse it says immovable and...
Prabhupāda: Sthāṇu, means fixed up.
Haṁsadūta: You mean its nature is...?
Prabhupāda: Unchangeable.
Haṁsadūta: Unchangeable. Not that we are not moving. We are moving.
Prabhupāda: Might be that word was not properly used. Sthāṇu, the word is sthāṇu. If you have got Sanskrit, you know what is the meaning of sthāṇu. And acalo 'yam, acalo 'yam, yes.
Revatīnandana: The point of all those...
Prabhupāda: That means acalo 'yam also, so acalo 'yam. Acalo 'yam means that does not move. Sthāṇur acalo 'yam, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is given. You can see. Now there is no time.
Śyāmasundara: That's right. If ...one boy who stole from us, I told the police. We told them exactly where he was, at the airport, Manchester. "He's going on flight such and such to America tomorrow." Plenty of time to apprehend him. They didn't do anything.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Śyāmasundara: They came... Oh, they sent one inspector to take notes.
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Śyāmasundara: Many notes.
Prabhupāda: Useless, all... And taxation. No security and ninety-nine per cent taxation. Just see the fun. They are very much accurate to take taxation. And there is no guarantee of security. This is the position.
David Wynne: Has it ever been perfect?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
David Wynne: Has it ever been on earth in the material world perfect with...?
Prabhupāda: Oh yes.
Prabhupāda: Well, Kṛṣṇa will accept not from any ordinary man, unless you are devotee. If you think that "I shall do something for Kṛṣṇa without having any relationship with Kṛṣṇa," how Kṛṣṇa will accept it? Kṛṣṇa accepts only from the devotee. He does not accept anything from anyone else. He's not in want.
David Wynne: Yes, exactly. (laughs mildly)
Prabhupāda: He's not in want. He's complete in Himself. But when a devotee gives Him love and faith, He accepts: "All right. Thank you." That is another thing. Otherwise, He doesn't require anything from him. What beautiful thing you can give to Kṛṣṇa? He can create thousand times beautiful thing than you... What power you have got? Why should you desire like that? But if you are devotee, either it is beautiful or ugly, it doesn't matter. If you give to Kṛṣṇa in good faith, He'll accept it. It doesn't matter. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). He doesn't require anything. But bhaktyā, in devotion and love, if anyone offers even a little leaf, a little flower, tad aham aśnāmi, "I accept." He says. A little flower and little leaf, what benefit you'll do to Kṛṣṇa, unlimited? But He says, "Still, I accept because it is offered in faith and devotion." So that is a different thing.
Prabhupāda: You see how nicely God has created this flower. How nice artist he is, how he has put the color exactly to the same point. So there is no hand? This is foolishness. It is going on. There is hand of God, but how His hand is working we do not know. That is explained in the Vedas: parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). He has got so subtle power that it is working, but we are seeing that it is automatically being done. But He's working. He's working. Just like we work. To paint one flower, we require a brush, color and so many things. Similarly He also requires. But His requirement are supplied so quickly that we see, "It is being automatically done." That is the... Because He's so perfect and unlimited that His working capacity we cannot follow. These are explained in the Upaniṣads, that God has no leg, but He can go so fast that nobody can compete with Him. These are the statements the Upaniṣads, that He goes so fast that nobody can compete with Him, nobody can go with Him. That is God's energy. So when it is said, "God has no leg," that means He has no this imperfect leg. He has go..., He has got so perfect leg that nobody can walk with Him. This is the idea. Not that God has no leg. He has got leg, but not this rascal leg. After walking three miles, that's all, finished. (laughter) Not like that. Not like that. Paśyaty acakṣuḥ. He sees, but he has no eyes. These are the statements in the Vedas. He has no eyes... Just like we have got eyes, but we cannot see beyond this wall. But He can see everyone's heart, what he is thinking, what he is doing, everything. You cannot hide anything from His seeing. Paśyati. That is, that is His seeing.
Prabhupāda: The difference is God... In the Vedas it is stated that God is just like a person like you and me. Just like we are persons, we are talking face to face, similarly, God is also a person. But... We are also persons. But what is the difference between these two classes of persons.
Mr. Wadell: Exactly.
Prabhupāda: Yes, the difference is eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. God is the maintainer, the supplier of all necessities of the so many persons. That is God.
Mr. Wadell: Yes, I accept that.
Prabhupāda: This is the difference. We are maintained, and He is maintainer. That is difference. Otherwise, God is also person, I am also person. One is maintainer and others, the plural number, they are maintained. In the Christian religion also, the same idea is: "God give us our daily bread," maintenance. So that is the difference. He is the bread supplier, and we are bread eater. That's all.
Mr. Wadell: He doesn't supply his bread to everybody unless...
Prabhupāda: Everybody, yes, everybody.
Prabhupāda: No, He does not interfere with your little independence.
Mr. Wadell: This is the point which you were trying to...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā God says that "You surrender unto Me." That means, "If you like, you surrender." God is not forcing, "you must." He is not forcing.
Mr. Wadell: Well, that's exactly what I meant. We are agreed. And...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that He does not do. Otherwise, otherwise, there is no meaning of being part and parcel of God. God is fully independent, and we are minute part of God. Therefore we have got independence. That independence is minute, but there is. So if God interferes with your independence, then you are no longer part and parcel of God. Therefore God says that "You do this." Now, I misuse my independence. I do not do it. Therefore I am bad.
Mr. Wadell: Our positions do not differ on this point. We think exactly the same.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We do not do it. Just like your father says, "My dear son, do like this," but you disobey. Therefore you are bad son. So my badness is creation of my misuse of independence.
Indian: As effective as it would be.
Haṁsadūta: Exactly.
Guest (4): So what you're saying is that there's no harm by his...
Prabhupāda: No, you can... That will help you in future to give up these habits. Chanting you can begin at any condition. But when we initiate officially, we take this promise. Then we initiate. This is our condition. Yatra pāpaś catur-vidhā. According to śāstra, these are four kinds of sinful activities: illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling. But these are modern civilization. It is very difficult.
Guest (3): Swamiji? Tea and coffee's also included?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also intoxicant. Pāna. Chāi, pāna. Pāna, pāna means intoxication. Dhūmra-pāna.
Guest (7): Dhūmra-pāna.
Guest (2): And what about supāri, Swamiji?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also ingredient of pāna. Pāna, it is called pāna.
Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtani na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ (BG 9.4). Although you do not find Kṛṣṇa in somewhere, but His energy is acting, there. So one who has eyes to see how Kṛṣṇa's energy is acting, he sees Kṛṣṇa. Same example. Because the Prime Minister's energy is working in that office, so the Prime Minister is there present. So everything is demonstration of the energy. Just like you are in the room, you have not seen the sun, but as soon as the sunshine is there, you know that sun is there. You see the sun through the sunshine, although it is not that sun has come into your room. The sunshine, coming of the sunshine within your room, is sufficient knowledge to know that here is sun. Sun is there. That is the Vedic statement, that you can understand there is fire when there is heat. If there is light and heat, then you can understand there is fire. That heat and light is sufficient, now, what is the heat and light? This is energy of the fire. So when Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, "These material elements," bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4), earth, water, fire, air, they are My energies, so if one has studied Kṛṣṇa, then as soon as He sees a great ocean, He sees Kṛṣṇa: "Oh, this is Kṛṣṇa's energy." As soon as sees a big anything, fire, water, anything, He sees Kṛṣṇa, nothing but Kṛṣṇa because He knows. Exactly in the same way, as soon as you feel heat, you know that there is fire. You don't require to see the fire. But if you feel, "Oh it is hot, oh, there must be fire." This is studying Kṛṣṇa. And this is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to feel the presence of Kṛṣṇa everywhere. So everything requires training, undergoing the process. Then it is possible. It is not impossible. So if you also go, the training, the process, you'll also understand. It is not difficult.
Prabhupāda: That will... Phalena paricīyate. The system which is accepted more, that is successful. You can present so many system, but the test will be which system is more accepted by the people, by the mass, general people. That is successful. Phalena paricīyate. And if somebody says that "I have got my own god," and some other says, "I have got my own god," but this is a fact: God is one. You may call by different names. That is different thing. But God cannot be manufactured, that "You manufacture your god, I manufacture my god, he manufactures his god." That is not God.
Buddhist Monk (1): That's exactly what is happening.
Prabhupāda: That, happening, that is another thing. We are talking of the principle. God is one. God cannot be two. Then there is no meaning of God. Now, if I present Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, if you disagree, then you'll have to present your god. Now, we have to consider who is actually God. Just like I talked with Professor Kotofsky in Moscow. So I asked him that "Where is the difference between your communist philosophy and our philosophy? The communist philosophy, they have created their own god, Lenin." Lenin is their God. We have seen in Moscow.
Prabhupāda: That... Again I am quoting that Professor Kotofsky. He said, "Swamiji, after this body there is no life." That is their conviction. This is the primary teaching of spiritual life, that we have got next life. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Dehāntaram. After giving up this body, you have to accept another body. This is the first lesson of spiritual education. But they do not understand the first lesson even. What is their spiritual understanding?
- dehino 'smin yathā dehe
- kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
- tathā dehāntara-prāptir
- dhīras tatra na muhyati
- (BG 2.13)
So dehāntara-prāptiḥ they do not understand. And it is very easy, that "I am, dehāntaram, I am changing my body. I was a baby, I was a child, I was a boy, I was a young man. So I have changed so many bodies. But I remember, I was a child. I remember. I was a boy. I remember. Therefore I am existing. My body has changed." Simple truth. Similarly, when this body will be changed, I will exist. Where is the difficulty to understand? But this plain thing they cannot understand. And they are passing as educated, philosopher, scientist. This plain truth, they cannot understand. The brain is so dull. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). "As I have changed so many bodies..." I exist. I remember, I had this body. So I may forget. Suppose in my babyhood, what was the feature of my body, I do not know. But there was. My mother knows. He can, she can explain, "My dear child, you were like this, you were like this." So forgetfulness is also not that I did not exist. I may not remember my last birth. That does not mean I did not exist. So forgetfulness is my nature. I cannot remember even what I was doing exactly this time yesterday. If somebody asks me. I can generally speak, that "I was sitting." But actually, what I was doing, I'll have to remember.
Prabhupāda: So if He says, "One can understand Me only through bhakti,"... He has spoken about jñāna, karma, yoga, everything, but if anyone wants to know Kṛṣṇa, then He says, it is His direct order, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Tattvataḥ, "In truth, what I am, if anyone wants to know, that can be known through bhakti-yoga. No other method."
David Lawrence: I was very interested this last week to be reading a book which really was trying to defend orthodox Christianity, and it was by a very devotional Christian writer, and he, in fact, was making exactly the same points as yourself about the God consciousness of Jesus. I read the Ratha-yātrā magazine, and saw how, I think it was a nun that asked you about the position of Jesus on this, and you quite rightly said, "Well, of course, Jesus never claimed to be God." I do wish that some Christians would realize that. He was God conscious, wasn't he?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
David Lawrence: The churches in this land seem to have forgotten that. He never claimed to be God.
Prabhupāda: No, how he could claim? He's a devotee of God, he's servant of God. How he can claim? Of course, there is no difference between God and His servant. Yes. That we say. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata... **. Because a devotee, like Lord Jesus Christ, means confidential servant of God, there is no difference between God and himself. Just like any political representative or business representative, he's, if he's a confidential representative, there is no difference between the king or the proprietor of the firm, so long he represents rightly. Similarly, anyone who represents God or the cause of God, he's not different from God. We should offer respect to such person exactly like God.
Prabhupāda: Read the purport.
Pradyumna: "The Lord has spoken about the peculiarity of His birth. Although He may appear like an ordinary person, He remembers everything of His many, many past births, whereas a common man cannot remember what he has done even a few hours before. If someone is asked what he did exactly at the same time one day earlier, it would be very difficult for a common man to answer immediately. He would surely have to dredge his memory to recall what he was doing exactly at the same time one day before. And yet, men often dare claim to be God, or Kṛṣṇa. One should not be misled by such meaningless claims. Then again, the Lord explains His prakṛti, or His form. Prakṛti means nature, as well as svarūpa, or one's own form. The Lord says that He appears in His own body. He does not change His body as the common living entity changes from one body to another. The conditioned soul may have one kind of body in the present birth, but yet a different body in the next birth. In the material world, the living entity has no fixed body, but transmigrates from one body to another. The Lord, however, does not do so. Whenever He appears, He does so in the same original body by His internal potency. In other words, Kṛṣṇa appears in this material world in his original eternal form with two hands, holding a flute. He appears exactly in His eternal body, uncontaminated by this material world. Although He appears in the same transcendental body and is the Lord of the universe, it still appears that He takes His birth like an ordinary living entity. Despite the fact Lord Kṛṣṇa grows from childhood to boyhood and from boyhood to youth, astonishingly enough, He never ages beyond youth. At the time of the Battle of Kurukṣetra, He had many grandchildren at home, or in other words, He had sufficiently aged by material calculations. Still, He looked just like a young man, twenty or twenty-five years old. We never see a picture of Kṛṣṇa in old age because He never grows old like us, although He is the oldest person in the..."
Prabhupāda: Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca (Bs. 5.33). Purāṇa-puruṣa, the oldest man, oldest living entity, but nava-yauvana, just like young man. Nava-yauvanaṁ ca. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣam (Bs. 5.33). Purāṇa means oldest, because He's the origin of all living entities. But nava-yauvanaṁ ca, just a fresh, young man. Hm.
Prabhupāda: So work is required. But godly persons, they want to live a simple life and high thinking, save time for understanding of God. The demonic people, they are engaged in horrible activities. They have manufactured so many things. So in this way... There are so many descriptions. Actually, by the increase of demoniac people, people are not very happy, and they are missing the ultimate goal of life. That is the defect of the modern civilization. They do not believe that there is an ultimate goal of life, there is life after death, and what kind of body he's going to get next. These things are not, neither in the university education curriculum, neither people are interested. So at the present moment... This is called Kali-yuga. So people are being misled. Actually, the human being, the form of human life, is distinct from animal life. So if we live like animals, then we are missing the chance. At the present moment, this is the position. So we are preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement strictly on the basis of this Bhagavad-gītā. In the Bhagavad-gītā, there is everything explained. So if people take to it, if people are educated, then things will change in a different way. They'll be happy and they will be peaceful, nice. And above, over and above them, they will have next life very blissful, full of knowledge, and eternal. Yad gatvā na nivarta... These things are all very nicely explained. There is eternal life. There is another nature. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). This is material nature, but there is another, spiritual nature. There everything is permanent. Here everything is non-permanent. Just like my body, your body. It is now getting older. And it will vanquish. This body will be finished. It will never come again back. Never come. This exactly type of this body you'll never get. So we have to accept another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Dehāntara-prāptiḥ. It is exemplified just like we change our shirt and coat and take another set, similarly, this gross body, material gross body, five elements, earth, water, air, fire, sky, and then mind, intelligence, ego, subtle body, within that subtle body the soul is there, and after annihilation of this gross body, the subtle body takes to another gross body. The nature is going on like that.
Reporter: And a right action is inherently inspired with love and devotion to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Reporter: And therefore it is no more hiṁsā. But when the devilish...
Prabhupāda: And actually it is not hiṁsā.
Reporter: Actually it is not hiṁsā, exactly, but...
Prabhupāda: Just like father gives a slap.
Reporter: Yeah, it is not hiṁsā.
Prabhupāda: It is not hiṁsā.
Reporter: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, the hiṁsā, so-called hiṁsā, when it is directed by Kṛṣṇa, that is not hiṁsā. That is love.
Reporter: Yeah. But when it is not directed by Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: Then it is hiṁsā.
Prabhupāda: That you have understood. That is my point.
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That so-called hiṁsā, when it is directed by Kṛṣṇa, is not hiṁsā.
Reporter: Yeah, exactly. I agree. That's, that's...
Prabhupāda: The same example as I gave, gave you. That when the king condemns a murderer to death, it is not hiṁsā. It is doing good to him.
Reporter: Yeah. But only if the king is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No... King is... King means a devotee. Because the king did not remain devotee, now monarchy is abolished. King means Kṛṣṇa's representative, nara-devatā. The king is supposed to act on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. Just like Kṛṣṇa's business is paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8).
Reporter: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, king's business is to give protection to the faithful and punish the unfaithful.
Reporter: But today's kings...
Prabhupāda: Today's no... I'm speaking... Today's good and tomorrow is bad, that is not.
Reporter: Yeah, yeah.
Prabhupāda: So this is government's duty, that you are claiming that everyone should be employed, everyone should be engaged, in his own occupation. That is called svadharmeṇa idanasya(?). Sva-dharma means the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. By quality. Guṇa-karma. By quality and work. So it is the duty of the government to see that a śūdra is employed, is engaged as a śūdra, a vaiśya is employed and engaged as... Just like vaiśya. Vaiśya, it is said that kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Now the vaiśyas, they are in the share market speculating.
Reporter: Hm. There are no more vaiśyas. (laughs) Exactly.
Prabhupāda: Industrialists. Industrialists means śūdras. So if they're śūdras, why they should claim as...
Reporter: Vaiśyas.
Prabhupāda: This is government's duty. To see, "Why you are claiming vaiśya? If your industry is to produce food grains, agriculture, give protection to the cows..." So in India ten thousand cows are being killed, and the vaiśyas are big, big (indistinct), big, big zamindars. You see.
Reporter: Sitting quiet. (laughs) Yes.
Prabhupāda: Similarly brāhmaṇas. Nehru. He is brāhmaṇa, but what did he do as a brāhmaṇa? But he was the head of the government. Who will speak against him? Everything is topsy turvy.
Reporter: No.
Prabhupāda: He says that "By My order, you become a guru." "So what shall I do, sir? What is Your ājñāya, order?" That yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128)': "Whomever you meet, you just speak what Kṛṣṇa has spoken." That's all. What is the difficulty? If we speak what Kṛṣṇa has spoken, exactly... Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, without my interpretation, no nonsense. No. Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). There is no more superior truth above. Truly speaking, that here is Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa. There is no more superior person or authority than Kṛṣṇa. So what is our difficulty? We are exactly repeating the statement in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). We are saying the same thing. Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). We are asking these people, "Just surrender to Kṛṣṇa."
Reporter: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: "Don't bother with any other things." Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). So we are teaching them, that always think of Kṛṣṇa, always become devotee of Kṛṣṇa, always offer obeisances to Kṛṣṇa. So what is our difficulty? There is no difficulty. But if we actually do this, then I am Kṛṣṇa's representative. Who is representative? What the original master wants, if one does the same thing, he is representative. It is not difficult. But people will not do that. He'll try to avoid Kṛṣṇa and take Kṛṣṇa's book Bhagavad-gītā and interpret nonsensically and spoil the whole thing. This is going on. He's not ready to speak what Kṛṣṇa has spoken. He speaks his own words of the authority of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: When meditation, meditation, dhyāna, it is very difficult nowadays. You chant to meditate, you think of your own business. That's another thing. So this is forced meditation: "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" Even if you do not want to hear, you will hear. (laughter) And there is chanting and dancing, everyone who doesn't wanted to hear they also hear.
Woman: What about people who believe in Jesus, God? I mean, what about Christians? It might not have the same effect on them.
Devotee: But Kṛṣṇa is God, and Jesus is teaching exactly what Kṛṣṇa's taught, so there is no difference to a person that has a pure heart. If we chant, all of us who have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we've realized that Jesus Christ's teachings are fulfilled in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Woman: Oh, I see.
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But Jesus said that he's son of God. So we say Kṛṣṇa is God. So what is the conflict? God must have a son, one or two? So he's also the son. Where is conflict? (everyone laughs).
Prabhupāda: ... that innocent... That... That's all right.
Revatīnandana: Rational? Animals have got rationality.
Jesuit Priest: No they haven't. Omnia animalia intelectu carent.(?) (Latin)
Revatīnandana: Even your...
Jesuit Priest: This is bringing out exactly...
Revatīnandana: Even your own psychologists will display to you rational life in the monkeys.
Jesuit Priest: No, no.
Revatīnandana: And so many other animals. Rats.
Jesuit Priest: No.
Revatīnandana: They make rational decisions.
Jesuit Priest: No they don't.
Revatīnandana: Oh?
Jesuit Priest: Well, I mean it's been accepted. ...
Revatīnandana: Your own psychologists will display that to you.
Jesuit Priest: Well, all I can say is it's been accepted in the teaching of not many western philosophers...
Revatīnandana: Not eastern philosophers.
Jesuit Priest: But all eastern philosophers... Omnia animalia intellectu carent.(?) (Latin) And now, as Mrs. Christie just said, if you've done a bit of study...
Prabhupāda: So because, because some animal is not intelligent, you are right to kill?
Jesuit Priest: No, no, no. We're not talking about killing. He, his theme now, that there's no difference between us and the dog.
Prabhupāda: Then you become pure. You become pure.
Revatīnandana: Yes. Yes.
Jesuit Priest: That's very interesting.
Revatīnandana: I just met a gentleman who told me exactly that. Just a few min... He's a businessman here in London. He's about forty years old. And three months ago, he decided, because he learned, heard this from us, he decided to become a vegetarian. And a few weeks later, I talked to him. He said, "You know, it's amazing the difference in my consciousness." He says, "I have become a completely different man." Yeah, he told me that.
Prabhupāda: Well, yes...
Revatīnandana: And he's a very intelligent man. He's in the Mensa Society.
Prabhupāda: In the Vedic literature it is said the animal killers cannot understand God.
Mother: Well, this is very good, sir, that you find this, and I say, this is not my argument... Yes. Hmmm.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Not practical also. I have seen the animal killers. They do not understand what is God. That is a fact. Neither they have got brain to understand it.
Jesuit Priest: I was just thinking how difficult it is. I read Latin pretty well. And Greek. And I can see the meaning in the original, in the Greek when it was translated from the Aramaic. Now in your translating you can get a phrase, and if you know the language, you know exactly what it conveys.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jesuit Priest: Put it into English and somehow, some of the meaning has come...
Prabhupāda: Then that exact...
Jesuit Priest: It's like the French. How do you say in..., how do you translate "au revoir"?
Prabhupāda: Otto?
Revatīnandana: He's asking you how to translate a French word, "au revoir."
Jesuit Priest: How do you translate into English?
Prabhupāda: No, no. I'm not translating. The person who knows French language, he translates from our English.
Jesuit Priest: Yes. No, well, I'm only trying to... A very simple question. It's not a question of trying to try anybody. I happened to say or give an example of what I mean. How'd you say in English, "au revoir."
Prabhupāda: Just... Just the... You have seen the... Just show him how it is done. Yes, you can do it.
Revatīnandana: That's all right. Mahādeva, you do it.
Prabhupāda: You see the original Sanskrit.
Prabhupāda: So. Yes, karma...
Dr. Inger: Exactly. What we have gone through. We are the, we are the result of our past actions.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a fact. That is a fact. Because we get all this information from Vedic literature. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). You understand Sanskrit?
Dr. Inger: Little bit.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantor deha upapattaye. A living entity is getting body by, as a result of his karma. And supervised by higher authority. Now when we speak of karma, or result of karma, there must be somebody who will judge. Just like one has stolen something, and the magistrate is judging the karma, the criminal activity, and he's putting him either in the prison house or getting him released. "No, he's not culprit." So as soon as we speak of karma, there must be somebody else to judge. And that judgement is said: daiva netreṇa. Daiva means divine supervision. So what is that divine supervision? Next question immediately comes. As soon as you accept karma, and the resultant action, and it is supervised by the divine authority, then next question will be: what is that divine authority? In this way, we have to go forward. So that sort of education is nowhere in the world.
Prabhupāda: It doesn't belong to anyone. And these rascals are claiming, "This is my. This is my, this is my flag. This is..." Therefore they are all cheaters. And they are combining and trying to cheat other that "How much I can cheat you." "I am American. How much I can cheat you, Russian." Russian thinking, "Yes, I am also cheater. How much I can cheat you." This is going on, cheaters and cheated. And they are wasting their time. Is that civilization, to become cheater and cheated and waste our time in some so-called conferences? Is that civilization, do you think?
Dr. Inger: No. Not at all, but that's exactly as you say.
Prabhupāda: American, they cheated the Red Indians. They got the land. Now they are claiming, "It is my land." But where you got this land? You have cheated the Red Indians, and you claim now it is your land. "Nobody should come here." Everywhere that is there it belongs to... Napoleon, he thought, "France is mine." France is there. Where he has gone, the proprietor? Yes. And with this idea he fought so much. Now nobody knows what he has become, where he is living, either in France or in hell, maybe in heaven. But there are so many places and so many forms of life. And our Bhagavad-gītā says, tathā dehāntaraṁ prāptiḥ. Just like I am now in this body. Child is in this body. So all of us sometimes were in this body, childish. So where is that body? That body is not existing.
Prabhupāda: As far as I have searched out from Mahābhārata... Yes.
Pradyumna: "The western Yavana joined with Duryodhana in the Battle of Kurukṣetra under the pressure of Karṇa. It is also foretold that these Yavanas, that these Yavanas also would conquer India, and it proved to be true. Khasa..." (break)
Professor: Now I understand exactly what the purpose of your movement is. I just wonder if you think the Western world is ready for this message?
Prabhupāda: Yes, why not ready? So many young men are coming.
Professor: So many, O.K., yes, but consideration of so many other people outside this temple...
Prabhupāda: No, any sane man will accept. This cult will not be accepted by the insane. One who is in quite order of the brain, he'll accept it. Only mūḍhas. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15).
Professor: And in India where is your āśrama or something like that?
Prabhupāda: My main āśrama is in Vṛndāvana.
Graham Hill: Are all spiritual bodies the same? I mean, is your spiritual body exactly the same as...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Spiritually you are all the same. Just like as human beings you are all the same but you may have a black dress, I may have a saffron dress, he may have white dress. This is outward covering. This is not myself. Similarly, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Within this body the spirit soul is there and he is changing different types of bodies. So when he accepts a process, this going back to home, back to Godhead, to Kṛṣṇa, then he hasn't got to accept any more material body. He remains in his own spiritual body. And spiritual body by original constitution it is eternal. Eternal. Nityaṁ śāśvato 'yam, na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin. This is a description of it.
Prabhupāda: What is their high spot?
David Lawrence: Well, exactly,(laughs) that is, in inverted commas.
Prabhupāda: They are rotting in the lowest spot, still. What is their high spot?
David Lawrence: Let's think, somebody like, perhaps Isaiaḥ or somebody like this who was a universalist and uh...
Prabhupāda: Somebody, somebody says so many things...
David Lawrence: Yes, that's right. Oh yes, I mean if you take them, they all differ in their views. But one of the things, one of the themes that comes through is the idea that...
Prabhupāda: Therefore the gentleman the other day was asking, "How is that you say electricity?" Oh you were not present that time? Because we have translated there is no need of sun, there is no need of moon, there is no need of electricity in the spiritual world. So when he heard the word electricity, he became astonished.
Paramahaṁsa: ...say, praise, or your appreciation of our movement or Śrīla Prabhupāda's teachings in front of the audience.
Professor: I, I, I don't know exactly... I hope I can come, but I can't say for sure.
Paramahaṁsa: I understand. I understand. Well, you're kindly invited. That goes without saying.
Professor: Yes, yes, I'll try to come. That will be at the University.
Paramahaṁsa: Yes, tomorrow evening at seven-thirty.
Professor: No, I'll try to come. Do you think, this one, do you think I could...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is also available.
Professor: ...for myself, or...?
Paramahaṁsa: Unfortunately, I think we have to order these.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Śrutakīrti: I don't think they have it here yet in your...
Prabhupāda: We are getting the consignment. Now we have only one copy.
Professor: This is the only copy you have?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But if you want to read overnight, then you can take. You can return tomorrow.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. And all the ācāryas, they came from South India. Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya. I think Madhvācārya belonged to your province? Malaya?
Ambassador: No, Śaṅkarācārya came from...
Prabhupāda: Śaṅkarācārya.
Ambassador: From Kerala. Sir, I have got a question. I have not really been able to locate when exactly Rādhā entered Hindu mythology. Because the Bhāgavatam doesn't mention. They mention only rāsa-krīḍā as a... Before that, they were, before Gaurāṅga, Caitanya, did you, do you have rendered exactly the bhakti cult to take... The Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, I mean. They were generally the gopīs and...
Prabhupāda: Other ācāryas, they elevated people up to sākhya-rasa.
Ambassador: Sākhya-rasa.
Prabhupāda: It is Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He gave us mādhurya-rasa.
Ambassador: Mādhurya-rasa.
Prabhupāda: Therefore about Caitanya Mahāprabhu, it is said, anarpita-carīṁ cirāt.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: The whole society's driving on so many...
Prabhupāda: Therefore we call it is illusion, māyā. Just like I showed you.
Haṁsadūta: Yes, the reflection.
Prabhupāda: Reflection. I, in morning walk, the sun was reflected in a glass exactly it is brilliant as sun. So I showed him: "This is called māyā, illusion. There is no sun, but it appears like sun. Exactly. And it is illuminating also." Reflection of the moon. So one who is less intelligent, he'll see: "Oh, here is a sun, another sun." So he's a madman. One who sees the sun reflection in the glass as sun, he's illusioned. He's mad. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is also psychiatrist movement.
Dr. Hauser: Is that a...?
Haṁsadūta: Psychiatric.
Paramahaṁsa: Psychiatric movement.
Dr. Hauser: Oh, yes, yes. In a way... I... Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. We are taking away a person from the illusionary stage to the real stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Oh. He is not living? That Nityānanda Swami is not living now?
Lady: No, no, he is dead.
Prabhupāda: When he is dead?
Lady: I don't know exactly because he had (indistinct) He was his devotee and (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: So there is great difference between our... We worship Lord Kṛṣṇa.
Lady: Juhu. May people might (indistinct), you are having (indistinct), it is very difficult for people to go there.
Prabhupāda: In Juhu there are many men. Juhu people are not coming here. Similarly, these people will not go there. But at Juhu there are many men. So in Bombay, in any part of Bombay, itself a big city, any part of Bombay. But where we are getting such big land in the city? That is 20,000 square yards. And on the Juhu Beach. For this facility, yes. And a new town is growing here. You have been in Juhu?
Banker: I used to live there. Beach house.
Gargamuni: That big white house, that six story high building right on the beach, he used to live there.
Prabhupāda: How do you like that place?
Banker: Very much. Quiet, peaceful. After a day of work in the bank it's a very nice place to retreat to.
Prabhupāda: Now, they were coming from Juhu to bank. So where is the difficulty? Such responsible officer, bank manager, they are coming and going, and you sannyāsīs cannot come and go? He has got responsible duties, he has to arrive in the office exactly in time.
Prabhupāda: So Nṛsiṁha-deva replied, "Don't be worried about your father. Not only your father, but your father's father, his father, up to 14 generations because a devotee like you, because you are born in this family, 14 generations they are also liberated." Best service. If your daughter can give best service to your family by becoming a devotee. She gives service to you, to your husband, to your husband's father, your father, that is the śāstric injunction.
Guest: What exactly is a devotee?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest: What exactly is a devotee?
Prabhupāda: Devotee means he does not know anything better than Kṛṣṇa, that's all.
Guest: But suppose a man who is working in life with always that consciousness, is he...
Prabhupāda: What is that consciousness?
Guest: That he knows nothing but Kṛṣṇa. (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: That his actions will prove.
Guest: No, not action. Just you say the brāhmaṇa must do by actions.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Why? Because you have got different mind, therefore you create different situation. Just like we are walking here. Not that everyone is coming to join us. Because they have got different mentality. They want to sleep. We want to rise early in the morning. Why this difference?
Śrutaśrava: It is a great mistake they're making.
Prabhupāda: It is not mistake. It is your desire. And exactly according to the desire, you get a body. It is not mistake. No. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). At the time of death, whatever you think, exactly nature will give you a similar body. That's all. That is not in your hand. That is in the nature's hand. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27).
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But scientifically it can be proved that there is a mistake.
Prabhupāda: Then that is your mistake. In the laws of nature there is no mistake. There is no mistake. Your mistake. Just like in the railway carriage there is first-class, second-class, third-class. So you have purchased third-class ticket. By mistake, you can go to the first-class and just give him, but you will not be allowed to stay there. So it is your mistake. But these first-class, second-class, third..., that is not a mistake. That is arrangement. Similarly, these varieties... God is so clever that He knows that so many mistakes can be done, and so many varieties are there. As you commit mistake, you enter... "You come here. It is ready." And it is very exact mathematically calculated. Because the nature is working in three modes, so you mix up these three modes, it becomes three into three equal nine, and again you multiply nine into nine, equal to eighty-one. Again eighty-one into eighty-one. So many varieties come.
Prabhupāda: Everything is natural...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...they call radio-active elements.
Prabhupāda: Everything is natural. What you have produced? Everything is natural production.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, based on these elements, they calculate, they can calculate, they say very exactly the, how old the earth is. How old is the...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. We know how old the earth is.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: How old it is?
Prabhupāda: Just like earth is at the beginning of Brahmā's life. Now Brahmā's life, you cannot calculate even one twelve hours. So how you'll calculate? He has to live for a hundred years. So now, at the present moment, if his one day's calculation is mid-day now, at the present moment...
Yaśomatīnandana: This is, is this the later half of his life?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Yaśomatīnandana: Is this the later half of Brahmā's life?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is advancing means he's going to die later on. Not only Brahmā, everyone one of us.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they calculate that it's only 4.5 billion year old, the earth.
Prabhupāda: Let them calculate, but who cares for that? They cannot calculate even one day of Brahmā.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Equation.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this, this whole material world is going on under physical law. That is called guṇamayī. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Everything is going on... It is exactly... Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ. So it is... Just like the sun is also rotating in its orbit, sixteen thousand miles per second, but it has got a fixed time, how long it will rotate by the order of the Supreme. This is physical law. And when, when He wants, everything will withdraw. All physical, finished.
Hṛdayānanda: Īśa.
Prabhupāda: Law means law-maker. So they do not know who is the law-maker. That is the difficulty.
Devotee: It is sand cleaner, it cleans the sand.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, this machine is working to keep this beach very clean. So we can understand that there is some management behind this. Similarly, the nature is working so nicely. How we can deny that behind this there is a system of management? How we can deny it? (break) ...things are going on very nicely. The sun is rising exactly in time, the moon is rising exactly in time, the water is flowing in its own orbit. It does not violate. So if things are going on so nicely, how you can deny that "There is no management behind it"? How you can deny it? It is very natural to understand immediately. And that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that "What you are speaking that nature is doing, yes, nature is doing, but under My direction." Just like the machine. Take it as nature. The machine is working, but the driver is there. Without the driver, how the machine can simply work? (break) ...life is meant. That is Vedic instruction, to know that management, who is the supreme manager. That is human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Otherwise animal life.
Karandhara: The incarnation?
Prabhupāda: Ah. Because the kṣatriyas were not doing exactly, he twenty-one times massacred them. Finish! And those who, kṣatriyas, fled from India, they came to Europe. So the European means they are coming from the kṣatriya descendant, but they have forgotten their own culture. Indo-aryan. (break) ...strong, then there is no doubt he will be able to control all over the world. That's a fact. But we must keep ourself spiritually strong. Āpani ācari prabhu jīve śikhāilā. Just Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was behaving in His life and that He was teaching. (break) ...behave like spiritual man. Then you can teach. If you don't behave, then how you can teach? (break) ...was brought here. It is more important than the Ganges. (break) One side, there is unrestricted sex life, and other side, stop population. But they cannot take this restricted sex life. Only fault! So if you restrict your sex life that "I shall not beget more than one child or two child," then where is the question of this abortion and contra...? But they, that they cannot. They will have unrestricted sex life; at the same time, they will check overpopulation.
Prabhupāda: ...is contamination. Just like when a person is diseased, you find so many extra chemicals in his body. So a diseased person produces such chemicals, not that chemicals are the agents for his life. Try to understand. When a living entity is pure, when he becomes impure, these chemicals are produced out of... Exactly the same thing, just like when a man becomes contaminated, infected with some disease, you will find so many extra things, germs and chemicals in his body. So these extra chemicals, germs, are not responsible for his living condition. Because he is living and because in an awkward condition, therefore these things have been produced by him.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But how about the normal chemicals which are...
Prabhupāda: Normal chemicals must be. Then of the whole world... The material world is made of chemicals. So wherever you go and see, the chemicals in different, what is called, element, they are present. You cannot see but chemicals because you have no eyes to see the soul. So you simply see the chemicals which is produced by the soul. Just like anything you keep for some time, when it is decomposed, you find so many chemicals, extra. So now they are mistaking. The chemicals are not... They are effects, they are not cause. When a thing is decomposed, you'll find so many extra chemicals.
Prabhupāda: There was one physician in Dacca. He was... Morning, he was washing his face. So one man was going, and he was coughing. So he asked that man, "Come here. Where you are going?" So he was a cultivator—"I am going to the field." So he said, "Better go home. Don't go to the field." So he was a respectable physician, so he went back. So his students asked that, "How is that, you asked him to go home?" So he chastised his stu..., "You do not know that he is coughing and the sound is like this? He will die after eight hours." It is experience. The students did not know but he could understand, "Coughing under such and such sound, it means death after such and such time." Yes. That, kavirāja can tell. When my father died, the kavirāja said, "Now you can do the rituals because he will die before next morning." He said. And actually it so happened. He said me this about ten, eleven o'clock, and he said exactly, "Before next morning he'll die." So that is experience. If you say, "After twenty days the month of January is coming," the child cannot understand, "How father said that twenty days after, January is coming?" But it is better experience only that one can say, "Today is 10th, and after twenty days, 1st January, will come." Everything is experience but supreme experience is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore if we receive experience from Him, then our experience becomes perfect. This is our proposal.
Karandhara: They are thinking they are maintaining.
Prabhupāda: They again thinking. What is your present position? You are maintained. You cannot maintain. You are maintained by your boss. He gives you some salary and you fill up your bellies. You rascal, you want to be maintainer. You cannot maintain even a family of five heads. Therefore we say, all full of rascals. Harāv abhaktasya kuto... That is our śāstric conclusion. Anyone who is atheist, nondevotee, he is a rascal number one. Bās. It doesn't matter what post he holds. Our conclusion is that he is a rascal number one. That's all. He cannot have any good qualification. There is need of God. Who will maintain? Just like children. They require care of the parents. The people require the care of a head man, executive. This is essential. You cannot do without God. Who is maintaining that the moon is exactly in time rising, exactly in time setting?
Devotee: Only God.
Prabhupāda: Then again, "going to prove." They cannot prove, they'll not not admit it.
Sujit: See, astrology, I think, what he said is half true. Astrology is a science but it is not an exact science like mathematics and chemistry.
Prabhupāda: No, No, it is mathematics. Astrology is simply based on mathematics. Exactly.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: To calculate the planetary...
Prabhupāda: Just see. The comet...
Sujit: It is from astronomy.
Prabhupāda: Astronomy, yes. Astrology is part of astronomy. Yes.
Sujit: It's part of the science. It has been accepted as part of the science.
Prabhupāda: No, it is...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Astrological science is mostly speculative theory.
Prabhupāda: Astronomy also.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...where is their food? Immediately, just see.
Nara-nārāyaṇa: The food and the sand looks exactly the same. So how they are immediately able to tell which is which?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just see their intelligence. You are very much proud of your intelligence. Just see their intelligence. Everyone is intelligent. Therefore actual intelligence is he who knows Kṛṣṇa. He does not know Kṛṣṇa. He has got intelligence. You cannot deny that. But he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. That is the defect. You have got intelligence; you can understand Kṛṣṇa. So if you don't use your intelligence for understanding Kṛṣṇa, you are nothing but cats and dogs. Kṛpaṇa. They are called kṛpaṇas. Kṛpaṇa means miser. One has got money, but he does not know how to utilize it. He is called kṛpaṇa, miser. They are so rascal that they cannot conceive that there is something as God and He can be known. Hopeless. That is the real point. Otherwise why so many scientists are...? They know, "This is idea only. There is nothing like God. So let us put our theories." That's all. That is your business, theology. They are so rubbish. That was the first publication in (the Village) Voice paper. They wrote when I first began in 1965 that "We thought that God is dead, but Swamiji has brought God with kīrtana." They admitted this. I think the paper, you have got copy. You can see it. It said exactly like this, that "We thought God is dead, but here we see, Bhaktivedanta Swami has brought God in kīrtana." That's it.
| Page Title: | Exactly (Conversations 1968 - 1973) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 25 of Feb, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=89, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 89 |