Prabhupāda: Of course, Kṛṣṇa assures that His devotee will never be vanquished. He will get good body. But I do not know what kind of body I am going to... Therefore before finishing this body I will have to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness very nicely. That is my success. Śabdhvā sudurlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte. After many, many of evolutionary process, I have got this nice human form of body in America or India, in civilized nation, or rich family, I have no economic problem. That's all right. So it is to be understood they are simply wasting. Oh, how miserable it is. They get the opportunity, and they are simply wasting for sense gratification just like cats and dogs. Whole day working, whole day laboring.
Evolution (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"evolution"
|"evolutional"
|"evolutionary"
|"evolutionist"
|"evolutionists"
|"evolutions"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Discussion about New Vrindaban Gurukula -- December 24, 1969, Boston:
Prabhupāda: Biology, you can teach them the evolution of the species from Padma-Purāṇa, 8,400,000's, one after another. Yes.
Hayagrīva: What about astronomy? Anything like that? No. Okay. Any animal husbandry they can learn out there. Animal husbandry they will learn...
Prabhupāda: That they will learn practically, cow keeping.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a question of consciousness, development of consciousness.
Dr. Weir: That's where your line is so very good in saying that the real evolution of man's mind has been his ability to produce more and more the functions of whatever the mind may be. But the mind is just as indivisible as God. We know what the brain is, but we don't know what the mind is. Yet more and more of it under conscious control instead of being irrationally eruptive(?). Prabhupāda: But there is the summum bonum of that realization. That is explained in Bhagavad-gītā: bahūnāṁ janmanām ante, jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). After many, many births of this mental evolutionary process, when actually he becomes wise he becomes God conscious and surrenders to God. That is real evolution(?). That evolution will go on. But when it comes to the summit, that is God realization. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). God is cause of all causes. That is final realization. Unless one comes to that point he has not come to the perfection of evolutionary process of the mind and intelligence.
Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:
Prabhupāda: Mind is instrument. The mind's position is accepting and rejecting. Intellect helps the mind what to reject and what to accept. And that intelligence is of the soul. That ground of intelligence is the soul. First of all bodily concept is gross life, ordinary, like animals, they do not know except the body. Higher than bodily concept of life, the exercise of the mind, mental speculation. That mental speculation is adjusted by intelligence and that intelligence belongs to the soul. Therefore soul is the ultimate and soul is the part and parcel of God. Therefore God is the supreme. So the mental speculation or the evolution of mental exercise when it comes to the summit, that is God realization. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti, sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). When one realizes "God is everything," that mahātmā, that great soul is very rare. That is the statement in Bhagavad-gītā. Mahātmā means whose mind is great. The mind is great. He's not thinking ordinary things. He's thinking of greater subject matter. They are called mahātmā, broader minded, broad-minded.
Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:
Dr. Weir: This is what I've said earlier on that the whole of the...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore if one comes to God consciousness, he becomes more active.
Dr. Weir: The whole evolution, I think I may have said it before you came in, the whole evolution to the human mind, is to become more and more in conscious control.
Prabhupāda: So mind, mind, activities of mind, activities of intelligence and activities of spirit, the spiritual activities more greater than the mind's mental activities.
Śyāmasundara: The other day we were discussing Socrates. And Socrates' method was to bring the self under control by inspecting oneself, "Know thyself," and thereby be able, lead a moral life with self-respect and self-control. But Prabhupāda was saying that this is not an ordinary thing. Not many men can achieve this rational control. So by simply cultivating spirit, nourishing spiritual life, any man can control his senses.
Prabhupāda: Just like, somebody, there is a child, a child is active, but his frivolous activities, or mischievous, have to stop when he's active in taking education. You see. The same child, his energy for becoming active is transferred for taking education. He's no more acting mischievously breaking this, doing this, doing that. The activity is there. Now that is purified. Similarly, spiritual life means the spiritual activity, that is purified activity. These boys, they have given up drinking, meat-eating. That does not mean they stop eating. They're eating better things. Therefore they have given up the nonsense eating. So that is spiritual life. Spiritual life means activity purified.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:
So you haven't got to make search or research. It is already there. Similarly, this Darwin's theory is there in two lines. (Sanskrit) Asati, asati means eighty. Catura means four, eighty and four lakṣāṇi, lakhs, 400,000. Eighty-four hundred thousand, that means eighty million, four hundred thousand. (Sanskrit) Jīva means living entity; jāti means species. Jīva-jātiṣu, brahmadbhiḥ. The living entity is wandering or transmigrating from aquatics to trees, plants, then insect, then birds, then beasts. In this way the last is human form of life. Brahmadbhiḥ, brahmadbhiḥ, wandering. (Sanskrit), last he is getting (Sanskrit), by the evolution of birth. Now this form is for understanding Govinda, God. The other forms, they cannot. So if in this form the living entity does not contact Govinda... Contacting Govinda means surrendering unto Govinda. As Kṛṣṇa says, "Surrender unto Me." Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So after many, many, many millions of births, when one is actually in full knowledge, he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection. Then he goes back to home, back to Godhead. That is our program, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: But a child or dog enters, that is not trespassing. A child or dog or cat, they enter without any permission. Therefore this animal kingdom and the human being, there is difference. By the evolutionary process we come to the human form of life. When we were animals... We were animals also. We are passing through 8,400,000 forms of life—from aquatic to plants, trees, then insect, then flies, then birds, then beasts, then uncivilized human beings, jungle, then come to this Aryan form, civilized form of human being. So it is obtained after many, many transmigrations. And if we do not understand the responsibility... Just like in an establishment one man is promoted. His first charge is doorkeeper, then he is gradually he is given promotion; he may come to the post of the manager. Just like in bank, it so happens.
Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:
Prabhupāda: ...body, and the body is considered as the dress, and the person who is dressed, that is within.
- dehino 'smin yathā dehe
- kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
- tathā dehāntara-prāptir
- dhīras tatra na muhyati
- (BG 2.13)
Just like this child, this is a dress. Now, after some days this dress will be changed to another dress. After some time another dress, another dress. This body is dress, we should understand, but the person who is putting on the dress... Just like I remember my childhood state, dress and condition, my youthful condition. So many things I remember. So although the body has changed—either you say it has grown or changed—I am the same. Therefore conclusion should be that after giving up this dress, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), I must have another body. This is the proof of immortality of the soul and transmigration from one body to another. Now, there are 8,400,000's of different dresses. There are 900,000 dresses within the water, then plants and trees, then insects, then birds. This is evolution of different dresses. The spirit soul is passing through different dresses.
Ambassador Keating: Both the human and the animals?
Prabhupāda: Just so. Spirit soul individual. He is passing through the evolutionary process. Evolutionary process means as he is desiring, nature is supplying a particular type of body.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The evolution...
Karandhara: A group of, a group of people wanted that in school they should also teach that God created the earth and the people...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Karandhara: Not just say that it was created by chance, random biology. But scientists objected, said: "We cannot say that God created the earth because then everyone will take us as fools." And they defeated the measure. The scientists said "Everyone knows. The earth is just created by biological chemistry. If we say that God created the earth, everyone will think us as fools."
Prabhupāda: The biology, chemistry, why don't you create? The biology and chemistry has advanced so much. Why don't you create? What is their answer?
Karandhara: In the future.
Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. Why future? If it is already created, biology and chemistry, and you know the process, why don't you create it by chemistry, biology?
Brahmānanda: It's very wet.
Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: He wanted a certain type of life. So nature gives him. "All right, take this body." He desires in a certain way, means he's associating with the quality of nature in a method, and according to that association, he's getting a particular type of body. Mind, mind is the creative force. Thinking. Thinking, feeling, willing. These are the psychological functions. So, first of all, thinking. Then he develops to work. And it is work you get a particular type of situation. (Break) One enters into the body of a pig. Then he'll have to go under the evolutionary process. Just like if you, if you are on the topmost staircase. Somehow or other you fall down. Then again you have to go, step by step. This is the... The steps are always there. Not that the steps are created for you. No. The steps are already there.
Morning Walk -- May 4, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: So many dangers. (break) So there are no more talks in your...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, there is a talk coming next week. There is a lecturer coming next week. He's slightly connected with evolution. He's a Nobel Prize winner. He's from Berkeley. He's coming next week, next Wednesday. He is going to give two lectures in our department. He is going to talk on evolution. The first lecture.
Prabhupāda: Darwin.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, evolution in general. And second lecture is on cancer, the causes of cancer disease.
Brahmānanda: Do they know the cause of cancer?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, there are several theories. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Suppose he knows the cause of cancer. What is the benefit? Neither he can stop cancer, neither a man suffering from cancer, if it is cured, he will live forever. That is not possible. Cancer or no cancer, a man has to die. He cannot check death.
Morning Walk -- May 4, 1973, Los Angeles:
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we have in this material world we have the evolution.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no evolution because there is no birth.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, in the material world.
Prabhupāda: Material world, there is evolution because there is birth. But in the spiritual world there is no birth. Birth, death, old age, disease, these things are not there. There is no question of evolution. Evolution means to transmigrate from one body to another. But there is no such thing. Everyone is eternal. There is no death, there is no transmigration. This is botheration. Therefore spiritual world means all the varieties of the material world, less botheration, minus botheration.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But in the Vaikuṇṭha planets...
Prabhupāda: Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa had so many girlfriends. There are so many nice descriptions of embracing, kissing, but there is no pregnancy or abortion. There is no description of such things. And that is spiritual world. The attraction for young boy, young girl is there also. They are also enjoying their company. Everything is there. But there is no such thing as pregnancy and abortion. Here people do not want that, pregnancy and abortion. But they are forced to do it because there are so many inebrieties here.
Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Jīva-jātiṣu. Jīva-jātiṣu. That means the evolution means from one form to another. The forms are already... Jātiṣu. Their facilities, they are already there. The living entity is simply transferring himself. The same example: One man is transferring himself from one apartment to another. That apartment is first-class, second-class, third-class. Just a person has come from a lower class apartment to a first-class apartment. The person is the same. Now, according to his karma or according to his capacity of payment, he has got a good apartment. This is... Bhramadbhiḥ. Bhramat means wandering, wandering. Not that they... Evolution means developing. Is it not?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. I understand that part, but I also come across from Śrīla Prabhupāda's commentary on the Bhagavad-gītā that the living entities, all the living entities, 8,400,000 species, they are simultaneously created.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That means there are some living entities, say for example, human beings. They come right away to the human platform without undergoing the...
Prabhupāda: Yes, Brahmā. Just like Brahmā. He is in human form only with four hands. He is the first born. And then he created other living entities. Brahmā is first born from Viṣṇu. He has got four heads, four hands, two legs, he can speak. It is human form. Then, from him other forms came out, marīcy ādi, ṛṣi, great great, saintly persons. Nārada, Kumāra. In this way, creation was there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the evolution of life... Those who are coming to the lowest living entity, the organisms, smaller units, so once they come to that stage, then they have to pass through the stages stepwise.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just the same example: As you get more money, you can acquire better apartment. The apartment is already there. Not that a apart..., this lower class apartment has become high class apartment. This is their nonsense. The Darwin nonsense theory is like that: "The apartment has become lower class to higher class." That is his theory.
Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: They are advanced in consciousness. They are advanced in consciousness. Suppose you are advanced in consciousness. So you are not going to get the dog's body or cat's body. You get another human body. Yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate. Yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ is not ordinary man. He is practicing yoga, but somehow or another could not fulfill. Therefore he gets again human body. He does not get the cat's body, dog's body. So he directly comes to the human body. There is no question of evolution. Same example. The apartments are already there. If you can pay more, "Come on, this apartment is ready for you." Not that you have to come from the lower platform, lower animal apartments. Daiva-netreṇa. The judgement will be done by the higher authorities. They do not know that.
Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Nonsense. So why there is now higher species? And the lower species also. As we see at the present moment, there is the most intellectual person and the most foolish ass also... So why do we see all the things simultaneously? Why ass is not abolished? What is their answer? So similarly, formerly also there was.
Karandhara: They say, "parallel evolution." They say in the process of evolution some are advancing and some are remaining stable.
Prabhupāda: So if that, even parallel, then there is Brahmā. He is most advanced. Why do you say there was no human being? There was. Therefore their theory, "In such and such era the human life began," that is wrong if they accept parallel. They are existing always. And as we see. Now as we see, the trees are there, birds are there, animals are there, human beings are there, God is there, demigod is there. Everything is there. Where is the question of evolution? Simply we have to enter. That's all.
Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: So if the tree can produce so much chemicals, how much the body of God can produce chemicals, we can imagine only. They are giving the theory that "From these chemicals life begins, or evolution begins." But wherefrom that chemical developed? That they do not know. That explanation is here, Kṛṣṇa: "I am the source."
Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or the Kṛṣṇa Book, you state that even clouds have souls. But then again they dissipate, in the rain they dissolve. Does that mean they die?
Prabhupāda: No. Just like your body dissolves. Does it mean you die?
Paramahaṁsa: So that means the life span of a cloud is very minute or very short. Is that so?
Prabhupāda: Yes, there are many living entities.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, my understanding of the evolution and the transmigration is that evolution is uni-directional, only in one direction.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the platform of transmigration from the human platform, so it works, either it can go down or it can go up.
Prabhupāda: No, transmigration (is) going on. They are coming automatically, animals, to the upper level of human form. But when you come to human form, if you don't cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you remain as cats and dog, then you become again cat and dog.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the evolution stops when the spirit soul reaches the eternal abode in the spiritual...
Prabhupāda: Yes, when he is no more entangled by a material body. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The scientists have no information that there is evolution after human platform.
Prabhupāda: That is their rascaldom. Therefore I say they are rascals. They have no knowledge; still, they proclaim they are scientists.
Paramahaṁsa: They think that evolution is continuing. They think that the human species will...
Prabhupāda: Yes, evolution... That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25). Progress is going on. That progress, the ultimate progress is yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). That where you're going, you do not return, that is the supreme progress. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ. That is the highest perfection. You read Bhagavad-gītā. Everything is there. Mām upetya kaunteya punar janma na vidyate. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ (BG 8.15). They have no idea what is the highest perfection of human life.
Room Conversation with Sir Alistair Hardy -- July 21, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: So do you...? Don't you think that killing of animal is sinful activity?
Sir Alistair Hardy: Well, it's a very difficult problem because surely the whole of creation has been part of God's work, and the whole of evolution, building up to man, has consisted in the killing of animals, one species killing another.
Prabhupāda: So why a human being should be like one species of animal?
Sir Alistair Hardy: Well, er, man should gradually grow out of that. I agree. Yes.
Prabhupāda: That means he's in lowest stage, animal stage. Who is killing, that means he's in animal stage. So how he can see God? Can animal, cats and dogs, can see God? That's not possible. How the animals can see God?
Sir Alistair Hardy: Well, we don't know at all what...
Prabhupāda: No...
Sir Alistair Hardy: We can't...
Prabhupāda: Your Bible is meant for not the cats and dogs. It is meant for the human beings.
Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:
Prabhupāda: Just see. And therefore I say, "Cheater and cheated." Yes. Similarly, scientists also. Recently in Los Angeles, California University, one professor, a big scientist came. He's a Nobel Prize owner. He described, gave lecture. He has written one book, on which he has got Nobel Prize, Evolution of Chemicals. He wants to prove by chemical, combination of chemical, life has come into existence. That is his theory, like Darwin's theory, that life is from matter or chemical. So after hearing the lecture, there is a professor also, a student, yes. He is also Doctor of Chemistry. He is my disciple. He inquired that "If I give you all these chemicals, whether you can produce life?" At that time he said, "That I cannot say." Just see. He is proposing that "From these chemicals, life has begun," and when he is questioned whether by supplying these chemicals he can produce a life, he said, "That I cannot say." This is going on. Then what is the... Then, if you cannot say, then why you are saying that from these chemicals life has come? So when they are caught up for practical purposes, they'll deny. And they are passing on as philosopher, as scientist, priest, and these things. Just see. (someone comes in) What is that?
Haṁsadūta: This is your visa. It's been extend...
Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris:
Prabhupāda: What is the aim of this movement?
Yogeśvara: The evolution of man.
Prabhupāda: Evolution of man. So man is going to evolve more? What is that ultimate evolution?
Yogeśvara: To a reintegration of man with the cosmos or cosmic consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Cosmic consciousness. We also believe individual consciousness and cosmic consciousness. We are now studying this subject matter in our class. Kṣetra-kṣetra-jña. So kṣetra-jña, the knower... The individual soul is also knower, conscious, and the Supersoul, God, is also conscious. So we also admit, universal consciousness, that is God's consciousness. (break)... consciousness is limited.
Yogeśvara: (break) ...is studying the same thing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is the evolution, when our consciousness is in agreement with the supreme consciousness. (break) That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris:
Prabhupāda: And he is part of that organization. He does not know.
Guru-gaurāṅga: He says that evolution of man which is the goal of this order is something that is mystical. It is not scientific, that it is so easily...
Prabhupāda: That means it is pale. It is not distinct.
Yogeśvara: He says he is surprised that we raise such objections. He thought that we were also searching for something mystical. He says he's heard our chanting.
Prabhupāda: Who, who? Who?
Yogeśvara: He said he thought we were also searching.
Prabhupāda: No, no, we have got definite goal, Kṛṣṇa... We have got definite goal, Kṛṣṇa... (break) ...Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He has got His form, He has got His place, He has got His name, He has got His pastimes, and we want to enter in that kingdom.
Room Conversation with Graham Hill Former World Champion Race Car Driver -- London, August 26, 1973:
Graham Hill: (indistinct) what sort of body we have been in in the past?
Prabhupāda: Yes, in the past. You forgot, but in the past you had life. Just like in the past I was young man. That's a fact. Similarly, but that young body is no more existing. Similarly, I had a past life but I have forgotten. That is the... Forgetfulness is our nature. Death means forgetting what was your first, past life. That is by nature you become forgetful because if you remember our past life and compare with this life... Suppose one was very rich man and if he becomes a poor, a cat and dog, then if he remembers, then it is very unbearable for him. Therefore nature helps him to forget. Forget. Otherwise he cannot do it. But the real problem is that we are eternal soul, we are changing our body one after another, birth and death. Apart from worldly happiness and distress, this birth and death, that is not very good process. At death time we have to suffer so much that we give up this body. And then again we enter into the womb of a mother. That is not very good situation. Then when come out there are so many tribulations, disease, then again old age. So people do not understand that he is passing... Especially when we are in other than human life. There are 8,400,000 species of life. Aquatics, then birds, trees, plants, insects, then beasts. In this way we come to human form of life. This is evolution. So in this human form of life there is chance of understanding the problems of life. In other forms of life it is not possible.
Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:
Prabhupāda: But that is going on. Recently it happened in Los Angeles, one big professor came to lecture there, and he has got Nobel Prize. I forgot his name. He has written one book, Chemical Evolution. So he was speaking on that Chemical Evolution, and his theory is life begins from four chemicals. So he gave lectures. After that, there is one student. He's also Doctor in Chemistry. He's my disciple. So he asked that professor that: "If I give you the chemicals, will you be able to produce life?" He replied: "That I cannot say." He says that life begins from these four chemicals. And he lectured hours. And when he was asked: "Suppose I give you these four chemicals, will you be able to produce life?" He answered, "That I cannot say." Just see. Is it not cheating? He's, he's saying that life is produced from these chemicals.
Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:
Prabhupāda: And these so-called scientists will reply: "Yes, we are trying. In future..." In future, everyone can expect future. But the hearsay is that: "Trust no future, however pleasant." Why future? In past we could not do. At present we cannot not do. What is the guarantee that in future we'll be able to do? There is no history that anyone has produced life from chemicals. What do your, what do you think, that life is a product of chemicals? Do you mean to say?
Dr. Hauser: That is what I've been taught. Yes. About the evolution of the earth. And...
Prabhupāda: Therefore, if...
Dr. Hauser: ...all the different stages of life.
Prabhupāda: Do you think that's a fact...
Dr. Hauser: It's not a fact. I don't know whether it's a fact. I... But that's...
Prabhupāda: Then that means illusioned. You are not confident, but you accept that theory. This is illusion.
Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:
Prabhupāda: Where is that evidence, creation of life from matter? Is there any evidence in the history?
Dr. Hauser: No, but as we know, the evolution of life has gone through different stages of... How do you...?
Prabhupāda: Darwin's theory. Do you mean to say, Darwin's theory?
Dr. Hauser: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. Darwin was a number-one nonsense. Yes. Rascal. He has confused the whole world.
Dr. Hauser: Hmm. Why...?
Prabhupāda: Evolution of matter. Matter cannot evolve. That is not possible.
Dr. Hauser: But evolution of life...
Prabhupāda: What is that life? That is different from matter. That is a different energy. That I am speaking. Matter is... Life is the origin of matter. The evolution is not of the matter, but of the life. That Darwin does not know. Therefore I say nonsense. He does not know that.
Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:
Dr. Hauser: Yes, I can see what you mean. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Darwin's nonsense is there. He is changing the apartment. Apartment is becoming a different apartment. That is not a fact. Just try to understand. This room cannot develop into another room. But I, the resident of this room, I can go from this apartment to another apartment. Or I can create another apartment. This is evolution.
Dr. Hauser: And I can create a bigger apartment.
Prabhupāda: Yes, bigger, smaller, as I like. Not necessarily bigger. That is also another nonsense.
Dr. Hauser: And my intelligence might grow also.
Prabhupāda: Intelligence, maybe. But there must be means. You may be very intelligent, but if you have no means to erect another nice apartment, how it will?
Dr. Hauser: Trial and error.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Dr. Hauser: Trial and error.
Prabhupāda: Just like you have got the desire to purchase another dress, garment, nicer, but if you have no money, then how you can purchase? You have to purchase something inferior. So these different species of life is the evolution of the living soul according to his karma. That is Vedic instruction. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). So I am a living entity. If I want to go to better condition of life, then I'll have to pay for it. Better condition is there already. Not this inferior condition changes into that better condition. That is another thing. Just like the condition in moon planet is different from the condition of this earthly planet. That is already there.
Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:
Dr. Hauser: Hmm. But there are the dinosaurs for example. The dinosaurs, yes. Which died and disappeared from the earth. And that is also a kind of evolution that has taken place.
Haṁsadūta: He says there are these prehistoric animals like dinosaurs, these big, gigantic animals, they are no longer existing now, but they existed at one time. So there, there was some evolution there.
Dr. Hauser: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: But the point is Vedic, Vedic conclusion is...
Prabhupāda: No, but, apart from Vedic conclusion, this example, that practically, when I go from this apartment to another apartment, so this apartment does not become another apartment. I go from this apartment to another apartment. He's missing that "I". Or "you". That is his nonsense.
Room Conversation with Indian Guest -- October 4, 1973, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Both are true, but both are not the same thing. Then why higher and lower?
Guest (1): Because of his evolutionary stage.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Then higher must be taken as higher, lower must be taken as lower. Just like a child's mental condition and his father's mental condition, they are not the same thing.
Guest (1): Sir, then today's lower, lower, higher, will be tomorrow's lower. Because tomorrow will be another unfolding.
Prabhupāda: But, but then you have to admit... Tomorrow he may be higher, but there, there is always the same thing, higher and lower. That you have to admit.
Room Conversation with Indian Guest -- October 4, 1973, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but you have to accept... Just like your son, your son. Tomorrow he'll be grown up like you, but at the present moment, his mental condition, your mental condition, there are different.
Guest (1): He's in evolution.
Prabhupāda: Yes, evolution. That, I understand. But these two things will continue.
Guest (1): As long as he's evolving and I'm evolving separately...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Guest (1): As individual...
Prabhupāda: No...,
Guest (1): ...because we are individualized.
Prabhupāda: But do you think that Aurobindo's mental condition or your mental condition, the same?
Guest (1): No.
Prabhupāda: Then here is higher and lower.
Room Conversation with Indian Guest -- October 4, 1973, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a fact. Now where that evolution will end?
Guest (1): When there is a world of ānanda, a new type of world...
Prabhupāda: But...
Guest (1): ...as animals...
Prabhupāda: That is, that is an expectation. That will never become. As you believe in Aurobindo, "When there will be," we say, "In the material world, there will be no such thing."
Guest (1): The Lord will be minus then, if He cannot create a...
Prabhupāda: No, Lord is not minus.
Room Conversation with Indian Guest -- October 4, 1973, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: But this body you have got. How you can deny?
Guest (1): But next evolution has to be another body only, sir.
Prabhupāda: That is your expectation.
Guest (1): No. Already this, it is before us. The animals have come, and they, above the animals, we are there. We can't be the end of it. The next one is this yogic life, or a yogic body.
Prabhupāda: But then... What is that end. That you do not know.
Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:
Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda, that verse in the Gītā, that nityaḥ sarva-gataḥ sthāṇuḥ. That verse in the Bhagavad-gītā that living beings are everywhere.
Prabhupāda: Yes, sarva-ga. Acalo 'yaṁ sthāṇur sarva-gaḥ. Nitya. Nityaḥ sthāṇur acalo 'yam. That is described. The seeds are everywhere. Just like they are trying to come out from this. You will find sometimes fracture, grass is coming. As soon as there is opportunity, they want to express the consciousness. Those who fall down... kṣīṇe puṇye punaḥ martya-lokaṁ viśanti. They come with waters, rain water, and falls down on the ground and become grass. Then gradually, evolution.
Hṛdayānanda: That's terrible.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino... How subtle laws are working, what do they know the scientists? Therefore their so-called knowledge is māyayā apahṛta-jñānāḥ, actual knowledge is taken away by māyā. And they are thinking, "I am very learned man, scholar." But actual knowledge is taken away. māyayā apahṛta-jñānāḥ. Why? Āsuri-bhāva. They won't accept God. Therefore they are all fools. In spite of all these degrees, they are all fools. Therefore they cannot explain everything very nicely. "In future we shall see."
Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: You see still, gases, I mean to say, cloud is forming in the sky. But you have no eyes to see it.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: With this background before, then that is why they start saying that before Darwin's theory there should be one. That is called chemical evolution. That is called pre-biotic-chemistry. Means before biological evolution started there should be chemical evolution.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that chemical evolution is part of life demonstration. That I have already explained. Just like the chemical, citric acid, coming from lemon tree, a life. It is coming. So all chemicals are being produced... Just like in your body, in my body, there are so many chemicals. Because the body is there, the chemicals are coming. In my urine you will find so much, so many chemicals. In my stool you will find so many chemicals. Wherefrom the chemicals coming? Daily, enzymes, so many other chemicals are coming. Simply the medical man analyzes the urine, and so many chemicals are there. Wherefrom it came? Because I am living entity, the chemicals are coming in my urine, in my stool, in my cough, in my secretion. It is coming. Therefore it is concluded that chemicals are produced by life, not life is produced by chemicals.
Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes, yes, That's it. A potter.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This idea Śrīla Prabhupāda, about the chemical evolution, this idea came from, I think, in 1920 by a Russian scientist. He is a biologist. His name is Oparin. So he demonstrated that before biological evolution the atmosphere of the earth should be, he called, very much reducing. Reducing, that means it must be mostly full of hydrogens, no oxygen, very little oxygen, but mostly hydrogen. Then in due course because of the reaction in these hydrogen compounds and the radiation from the sunlight, then these compounds form into different chemicals which are...
Prabhupāda: That is a side study. But there was hydrogen. Wherefrom the hydrogen came? The scientists, simply they study in the middle. But they do not know what is the origin. Just like here is one aeroplane is coming, and you can say, "All of a sudden a light came out of the sea." Is that the study of this aeroplane? If we... the foolish person will see, "All of a sudden, in the sea there was a light." Is that scientific study? So your study is like that. "There was this, and all of a sudden, by chance..." That's it. That is not scientific study. We have to find out the original cause.
Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say, "At the time of evolution, the cells, the genes, sometimes..." Normally the gene is perfectly copied for the next generation, but sometimes there is a mistake in copying. Just like in the printing press sometimes we do some mistakes. Just like that, there are some mistakes along the path of evolution. So those mistakes, sometimes they just, according to the circumstances, they can stand, and they form a different living entity because of the difference of the genes.
Prabhupāda: But the mistake is continuing forever, because you'll find the varieties of living entities ever-existing. Therefore the mistake is permanent. So when it is permanent, it is not mistake. It is intelligence.
Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, during the progress of evolutionary process, suppose if the individual soul falls down from the human platform, the individual soul falls down from the human platform to some other lower species, but in the course of again evolutionary process, at some stage along the path he'll come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Is this...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, that is the process. Evolution means to come to that end, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is real evolution. If one misses the chance, then again falls down. But the natural progress is that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But ultimately he will come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes, ultimately everyone will come to Kṛṣṇa. Not Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but Kṛṣṇa. At the end of this world, devastation, they enter into the body of Kṛṣṇa. They remain there.
Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: It appears like water, but it is not water." Therefore we are making revolution, changing one authority from another, but we do not know they are not authorities. Real authority is Kṛṣṇa. That is their... Therefore it is called illusion or māyā. We are thinking that "From this ism to that ism." Just like there was French Revolution. So the French people are not happy. Still there is unhappiness. Similarly, Bolshevism. We have seen practically in Moscow. Nobody is happy. There cannot be happiness. This is going on. So real happiness is Kṛṣṇa. That, people should know. The chemical evolution also, it is also māyā. They are thinking by further improvement, just like you were speaking, almost come to the point... That "almost coming to the point," that will continue. You will never come to the point. This is the position. You'll never come to the right point.
Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:
Svarūpa Dāmodara: When the concept of chemical evolution, when this fails, then they have to accept that there is a Supreme Being. This will also fail.
Prabhupāda: No, this will fail. It is already failed. But because they are...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, but they are still hoping.
Prabhupāda: ...they are fools and rascals, they are still hoping against hope. That's it. It is already failed.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are not fully convinced yet.
Prabhupāda: Because they are not intelligent. There is a Bengali word, dekhe sekhe teke seke. (?) Mean when one who is intelligent, he is seeing the things, he is understanding, "Oh, the consequence of such action is this." So... And another man is so fool. Unless he is actually in that position, he will not learn. One is learning by seeing only and another is learning by actually being in that position. So who is intelligent?
Yaśomatīnandana: One who is learning by seeing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. One who knows that these material things, it has got a beginning and it has got an end... In every day we see that. Even with our body we see that it has a beginning and it has an end. I have seen my father was born and he died. So I am also born; I'll also die. My son is also born; my son will die. This is real experience. But if somebody says that "I shall not die. We are trying to become immortal," so that is foolishness. That is foolishness. By experience from time immemorial, historical reference, there is no such thing as immortality. But if somebody says, "By chemical evolution we shall become immortal..." Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness proposition is that human life is meant for factual knowledge or ultimate knowledge.
Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: There is no chance. That is rascaldom. There is no chance. There is no chance.
Karandhara: By their theory of evolution, selectivity, that whatever develops, develops out of necessity, but not out of design.
Prabhupāda: No, there is design. They do not know it. Mayādhyakṣeṇa (BG 9.10). It is said in the Bhaga... Adhyakṣeṇa means "under My superintendence." That means under some plan. What is the plan of this material world? The plan of material world is that some rascals, living entities, they wanted to enjoy. So God has given this plan, "All right, you enjoy." This is the plan. And not only enjoy. "You enjoy; again come back." This is the plan. Pravṛtti-nivṛtti. First of all he is given that "All right, you take all facilities of enjoyment." Therefore Veda is that "You enjoy like this, and after you have fulfilled your enjoyment, come back again." This is God mercy.
Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:
Svarūpa Dāmodara: If we don't experience, we may not know that we are suffering.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because we have got little freedom. Therefore this freedom is given, "All right..." So by freedom, sometimes we are becoming Lord Brahmā and sometimes the germ in the stool. This is going on. Otherwise, why there are so many different types of living entities? That freedom is acting under three modes: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, and tamo-guṇa. And when they are multiplied, three into three equals nine, nine into eighty-one; therefore 8,400,000 species. They experience everything. That is evolution, coming down, again going up, coming down again. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). So when they become exasperated, "No more." They want to become merging into the Supreme. When they are fatigued. After being karmī, then jñānī: "This is not good. What is actually our aim of life, let us search out." But because they make research in their teeny brain, they come to the conclusion, voidism and impersonalism, that "Make it zero, this botheration." That is also imperfect. So when they come to Bhagavān and engage himself in the service, then it is perfect, original.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Morning Walk -- January 3, 1974, Los Angeles:
Karandhara: I haven't seen it, but I have heard of the example.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are thinking the rice is..., rice is producing the scorpion. It is called taṇḍula-vṛścika-nyāya. But rice cannot produce a life. The real fact is a scorpion lays down the egg within the rice, and by the fermentation it comes out. Just eggs. And the small creature comes out. And foolish creatures, they think it that the rice is producing scorpion. That is not possible. So they are putting forward this evolution theory that man is coming from monkey, but no monkey is producing a man. Nobody has seen. There are so many things. They put forward some theory, but it is not fact.
Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:
Bali-mardana: They say that evolution.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, there is discretion. As soon as you say evolution, then evolution means there is also some arrangement that "You shall act like this, and he shall act like this."
Sudāmā: Some people already believe, "Well, we already have so much water." Just like when we sweat, there is already water there. There's no question of drawing it from the... like the trees.
Prabhupāda: Why do you draw water? Why you draw water from other source? If you have got water? If you haven't got water, that's all right. Is that sufficient?
Sudāmā: No.
Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:
Prabhupāda: Generally, it is not practiced, but if people come, how can you check them? (pause) So we were talking about Darwin's theory, eh? What is that?
Nitāi: It is survival of the fittest, his evolutionary theory?
Prabhupāda: Now, we talked about that if you do not take my documentary, what is called, evidence, why shall I take your documentary?
Bali Mardana: I think the only reason it is accepted is because it was very popular among the atheists. They said, "Oh, yes, let us support this idea."
Prabhupāda: Yes, but there is theist class also.
Bali Mardana: So whatever we put forward is at least if, is more authoritative than what they can propose 'cause ours is based on śāstra.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: No, no. Human being, that is a chance given to you to become human being, to understand God. And if you do not place yourself as human being, you must suffer. Just like (Hindi). Ācchā post. If you do not behave rightly, you are degraded. You are going to animal become.
Guest (1): No, but,...
Prabhupāda: No, no, this is the nature's law. This is the nature's law, that some way or other, by evolutionary process, you come to the human being form, but if you remain as animal, then you go to animal again.
Guest (2): So animal me āpne bolte hai (?).
Prabhupāda: He.
Guest (2): Ācchā. So if population increase...
Prabhupāda: The same example. Suppose by promotion, you come to a very nice post, but if you do not behave well, then you are degraded.
Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:
Dr. Patel: That is what I say...
Prabhupāda: Yes. But these rascal scientists will not understand this.
Dr. Patel: Einstein?
Prabhupāda: No, yes. They have no... They are, they are... I know one scientist, a rascal scientist. He has written one "Chemical Evolution."
Guest (1): Yes.
Dr. Patel: Litleus. (?)
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Article came. I read it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Chemical evolution." "From chemical life has come." Just see. And he has got Nobel Prize.
Dr. Patel: That is the Russians.
Mr. Sar: Is it?
Dr. Patel: No, that man has not got the Nobel Prize.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. I know. In California University he was there. So one of, one of my students, he's also professor in the... Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara. He challenged that "Suppose if I give you the chemicals, can you produce life?" That time he said, "That I cannot say." From that day, his meeting was not attended by the students. Yes. He theoretically said that "From chemicals life has come into existence."
Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:
Dr. Patel: Society came into existence after the evolution of the civilization.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Dr. Patel: Society came into existence after the evolution of the proper civilization. Before, when... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...right civilization begins when the society is organized. Otherwise, it's cats' and dogs' civilization. That is not civilization. Unless... Varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān (CC Madhya 8.58). The society becomes perfect when the members of the society can understand that this human body is meant for satisfying Viṣṇu. That is the beginning of organized society. So long they do not know that, that is animal society. Because the animals, they do not know that.
Dr. Patel: Shall we go back?
Prabhupāda: Yes. The animals, they do not know. (break) They do not know it, that "We have to satisfy the Supreme Viṣṇu." So unless the society comes to this consciousness that "We have to satisfy the Supreme," that is not human society. Now, how they will understand? Therefore four divisions.
Morning Walk -- April 6, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: (break) ...win's theory is that from that lower animals to go to the higher animals, but in the creation we find Brahmā is the first creation. So he is the topmost intelligent man.
Bhāgavata: Is there anything in the Vedic literature which supports Darwin's theory?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not Darwin's theory. Darwin's theory is no explanation that whose evolution? Evolution is of the soul. The soul is changing in different bodies, one body better than the other. That kind of evolution.
Acyutānanda: Darwin has no individual evolution, but the evolution of a species, like, they say, there were horses. And then when they had eaten up all the food on the ground, so they started to get the food on the trees. So their necks became longer. And those with longer necks lived, and the others died. So then there were the giraffes. So they moved like that. "Survival of the fittest." That's his theory. Then the more intelligent animals will live more than the less intelligent. So they will die out and then they will be up to the human. But that doesn't explain why there are still lower species of life, that why are there still animals?
Girirāja: (reads) "...we are given the histories of Kṛṣṇa's appearances and disappearances millions and billions of years ago. In the Fourth Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa tells Arjuna that both he and Arjuna had many births before, and that He, Kṛṣṇa, could remember all of them and that Arjuna could not. This illustrates the difference between the knowledge of Kṛṣṇa and that of Arjuna. Arjuna might have been a very great warrior, a well-cultured member of the Kuru dynasty..." (break)
Acyutānanda: In the last part of Kṛṣṇa Book, Mahā-Viṣṇu says that Arjuna is of the capacity of Nara-nārāyaṇa. So they are avatāras also.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: That is by intelligence. We are superior to animals by superior intelligence, not by... Just like a human child. His father is superior than the child because the father has got superior intelligence, not that the child has no soul. The child talks so many nonsense things, but we take it, "After all, it is child." Nobody cares whether it is symmetrical or not, because his intelligence is not developed. So even the animals have no developed intelligence, that does not mean it has no soul. Yes. The evolution of different types of body means evolution of intelligence. Just like a flower, in the bud stage, the flower is there. But the fragrance or the beauty has not yet developed. So unless the things are there, how it can develop? Similarly, the soul is there in every living entity, but according to the development of the body, evolution of the body, the intelligence becomes manifest. Otherwise, what is the meaning of education? Education means to develop the intelligence. That is education.
Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:
Prabhupāda: There are nine lakhs varieties of life in the water. Similarly, twenty lakhs varieties of life in the trees and plants. Then there are insects, then there are birds, then there are animals, then there is human being. So this human form of body is obtained after evolution of many millions and trillions of years. It should not be... This is a chance for stopping this business of repetition of birth and death. But people, they have no knowledge how to stop it. Although everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, everything is explained, but we are not utilizing. We are manufacturing our own concocted knowledge. Therefore we are suffering. If we read Bhagavad-gītā as it is, then all the solution of human society's problem are there. Economic, social, political, religious, cultural, philosophical—everything is there.
Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:
Monsignor Verrozano: Could you be so kind to say to us something about your movement which is spread in the world.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Our movement is that, that is first-class religious system which teaches how to love God. This is the sum and substance of our movement. There is a Sanskrit statement in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam,
- sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo
- yato bhaktir adhokṣaje
- ahaituky apratihatā
- yayātmā suprasīdati
- (SB 1.2.6)
If you want to be happy, then you must take to the superior type of religious system which teaches the followers how to love God without any motive, and which is never checked by any material condition. God's name is given here as Adhokṣaja. Adhokṣaja means beyond experimental knowledge. God has got many name according to different situation, and one of the name, for the materialistic person, adhokṣaja. Akṣaja means experimental knowledge. Akṣa means eyes or senses. Beyond sense perception. So we cannot speculate about God, but we can understand about God from authorities. This is the conception of Bhāgavata-dharma. So the human life is especially meant for understanding God. That is the version of the Vedānta-sūtra, Vedānta philosophy. The Vedānta philosophy teaches, athāto brahma jijñāsā, "Now this human form of body, which is above the lower grades of forms..." There are 8,400,000 forms of body. The soul is transmigrating, evolution.
Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:
Prabhupāda: So śāstra says, labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte: "My dear human being, please note. You have got this form of life after many many births, bahu-sambhavānte. You had to undergo the aquatic life, 900,000 species, the birds, trees and plants, two million. How much time it has gone by for this evolution. Now you have come to the human form of life." Labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte mānuṣyam: "This is human form of life." Artha-dam: "Now you can achieve success. Although it is temporary, but you can achieve the highest perfection of life. Therefore," tūrṇaṁ yateta anumṛtyu yāvat, "before next death, you be very dexterous to complete the success." And if you think, then what about my sense enjoyment? Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt: "It will be available any life. This life you spend for this purpose. Don't waste simply for viṣaya." Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. This you will get even if you become cat and dog.
Room Conversation with Monsieur Roost, Hatha-yogi -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:
Prabhupāda: Aṣṭāṅga-yoga, aṣṭāṅga.
M. Roost: Yes, aṣṭāṅga-yoga. The last part of the evolution. I think first we must through the body find the balance. With the balance of our body, we can go after the balance of our ego, of cessation, and after this, perhaps, we are able to sacrifice all to the Lord.
Prabhupāda: Sacrifice for whom?
M. Roost: Yes. Without intention.
Satsvarūpa: The Lord, he said.
M. Roost: Without personal intention.
Prabhupāda: I'll speak.
Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:
Prabhupāda: That we also say, pralaya-payodhi-jale **. Because the whole planet was submerged in water, so there was life in water, aquatics, fishes. That is not a very new thing. We know it.
Paramahaṁsa: I have a question about evolution. Our position is that all the species have been established by Kṛṣṇa, even before creation. But yet, in the creation, it comes about through an evolutionary process?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: So the fact that evolution is existing, it's a fact. But it does not exist independent of the fact that Kṛṣṇa created it and He established it. It's not something that developed independently.
Prabhupāda: What is that? I do not follow.
Bhagavān: When Brahmā creates the different species, they're not created one at a time. They're... All over the universe, there's different species which he creates?
Prabhupāda: Brahmā is created first. So he does not belong to the species. Immediately, he's a demigod. So where is the question of evolution?
Bhagavān: Yeah.
Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:
Bhagavān: Does the human species come with the gradual evolution or is the human species created first?
Prabhupāda: No, in the creation, according to your karma. As you stopped your activities in the last creation, it is, it is just like... It is called suptottitha-nyāya: "A man is sleeping, and when he's awakened, he immediately remembers, 'What I have to do.' " So the annihilation means all living entities sleeping, and as soon as there is creation again they begin from the point where they last lost their life. That's it. It is the same example. Just when you go to sleep, you have a standard of thinking, and as soon as you are awakened, the same standard of thinking again begins. From the point where you slept and when awakened, you again begin from that point. It is like that.
Room Conversation with M. Lallier, noted French Poet -- June 12, 1974, Paris:
Yogeśvara: So, so far, to this point, we've been speaking about a gradual evolution of consciousness through the species. So what is the explanation, what is the reason for which there is a degradation of the human consciousness through the four ages?
Prabhupāda: Where there is evolution, there must be degradation. Otherwise, what is the meaning of evolution? Why it should be stagnant? If you go, ascend, then you can descend also. Now, the Mr. Nixon was elected president, and why he's being dragged, "Come down." He is not coming down, but he has already come down, degradation. Nobody likes him.
Room Conversation with M. Lallier, noted French Poet -- June 12, 1974, Paris:
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: We read in the Bhāgavatam how in King Parīkṣit's, under his rule, the people, there was no place for the personality of Kali to live even though it was Kali-yuga. So is this possible even today?
Prabhupāda: Yes, why not? If you follow these four principles—no illicit sex, no gambling, no intoxication, no meat—then you'll, you are secure. But who is going to accept this?
Karandhara: The young man can understand that the degradation has occurred because of ignorance. The knowledge has been forgotten by which the upliftment or evolution can continue. So Prabhupāda and this movement, we're representing that knowledge. The knowledge has always been there, but it's been lost. It's been forgotten. So if that knowledge is represented, and made available, then that ignorance becomes dispelled, and the advancement can again go on.
M. Lallier: Yes, but degradation is not...? Is it not a law of nature?
Karandhara: Well, the law, the dynamic, or the dynamics of the law is the preponderance of godlessness.
Prabhupāda: No, the law is all right. Suppose one is degraded to become a criminal, thief, but he can be raised also to become a high, saintly person.
Room Conversation with Mr. Tran-van-Kha, and President & Members of the Society of Buddhists in France -- June 15, 1974, Paris:
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the explanation. You are right.
Guest (2): (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says the evolution was already before, because in the vegetables is already this process of evolution of the soul.
Prabhupāda: Every living entity has soul. The body is just like the dress, just like you are sitting here under different dresses, but that does not mean we are different. That is stated in the Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā: vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni. Find out this, vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22).
Yogeśvara: Second Chapter.
Prabhupāda: You can take it.
Morning Walk -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: Their brain, rascal brain is being used for that purpose. And what they will understand? They are preparing their road for going to hell. What they will understand about spiritual matters? Nature will not excuse. That is not possible. (break) That is sufficient for your being killed. Yes, sir. Wherefrom these laws come unless there is God's laws? Everyone will be killed. They are thinking that "We are not going to slaughterhouse to kill. They kill; we purchase." The Buddhist says like that. Everyone says like that. Therefore, according to Vedic scripture, those animal-eaters, they should kill them personally so that they can see how much suffering is there, so he will stop. But now the things are being done in the slaughterhouse. They do not see. They purchase very nicely packed. They do not know. And they are becoming implicated. Therefore, according to Vedic injunction, if you want to eat meat, you kill yourself in your front, in the front of goddess Kālī. So that the animal will get next life as human being. He is promoted immediately. He hasn't got to go to the evolutionary process. He gets immediately. And it is given right that "After you get human form of (life), you can kill this person." You see? This is the process of bali-dāna, mantra and everything. (Break) ...regulation that... that is not cow.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation -- January 27, 1975, Tokyo:
Prabhupāda: There is arrangement. But this arrangement you do not understand. Therefore you are foolish, you are thinking that this typewriter is striking automatically. It is not automatically. Here the other typewriter it is stroken and there is electric arrangement and it is striking. So you have to understand like... That is sura. And asura, they will say, "No, there is no God. It is taking automatically, it is going on," This is foolishness. The asura means foolish, first-class foolish, that's all. Why it has become so? That is explained here. That they do not know how to behave, nāpi cācāraḥ. Na satyaṁ teṣu vidyate, neither they know what is the actual truth. They are defective themself and they are explaining in the defective way that so many rascal chemists they say that the chemical evolution is the cause of life. What is this nonsense? Chemical evolution, you get the chemicals and make a experiment and produce life. Then your proposal is all right that by chemical evolution there is life. No, that is not possible. You have got all the chemicals. Why don't you revive a dead man by injecting chemicals again into life, where is your power? So why do you talk foolishly like that? This should be challenged that "You are foolish number one." Actually it so happened in California. One big chemist he came there to lecture the chemical evolution, by mixing of chemical life has come into existence. So there was one student, he is my disciple, Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara, he said that (break) ...first-class cheater, that's all, mūḍhā. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). (indistinct) ...people are suffering for want of this knowledge. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are trying to bring people in true platform of knowledge, not to increase death like these rascals and fools. That is our proposal.
Room Conversation -- February 15, 1975, Mexico:
Prabhupāda: So the soul transmigrates to another body. That is the evolutionary process for anthropology, basic principle of anthropology. So in Darwin's theory there is no admission of the soul. Therefore it is imperfect. The soul transmigrates from one type of body to another type. And then there are 8,400,000 forms of body. So when we get this human form of body we get all intelligence. And we should utilize this intelligence how to stop this transmigration of the soul from one body to another. So what is your opinion?
Mr. Cortez: (Spanish)
Hṛdayānanda: (translating) If there's a certain criteria of proof or a certain evidence that we can know for certain that there actually is such transmigration of the soul?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like the baby is, the soul is, transmigrated from baby's body to child's body, child's body to boy's body, boy's body to youthful body, so the body vanishes, and because the soul remains, he gets another body. Now I am old man. I remember I had a child's body, I was lying down. I quite remember it. But that body is not existing. So this is the example. Everyone has experience.
Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:
Prabhupāda: That's all right. It doesn't matter him, but there are persons—he will shudder if he is said that "Next body you are going to become a dog." (laughter)
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): Where is the beginning of evolution, is that what he's saying? Where does evolution begin?
Devotee: What is the principle of evolution?
Hṛdayānanda: How can it be that we're advancing if we can become a dog in the next life, is that it, or something inferior? Where is the question of progress?
Prabhupāda: What is that? No, by nature's way there is evolution, from dog to fox, fox to this, that, that. That is... There is a law. But again one can fall down. In this way one comes to the human form of body. That is the chance of self-realization. But if in the human form of life, he does not behave like a human being—he behaves like cats and dogs—then he gets again cats and dogs. So if by his work, he gets degradation to get the body like a dog, then again it will take millions of years to come to the human form of life. Therefore intelligent man should be very careful. He should not say, "I don't care." That is very risky life.
Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:
Prabhupāda: Just like we are sitting, ladies and gentlemen here. So every one of us, we have got different dress. The dress is superficial, but as ladies and gentlemen, human being, we are one. Similarly, each one of us can have a different dress. So these living entities, they are in different dresses only, and the dresses are calculated-8,400,000 different forms. In the water there are 900,000 different dresses. Similarly, the trees and plants, the two million different types of vegetables. Jalaja-nava-lakṣāni sthavara-lakṣa-viṁśati. There are insects. There are 1,100,000 species. Similarly birds, there are one million. And Pakṣiṇāṁ daśalakṣanam. Daśa-lakṣa means one million, one million types of bird. And three million types of beasts. And 400,000 forms of human being. In this way the living entity is passing through different dresses. And the best dress is this human form because in this dress you can understand what is God, what you are, what is your relation with God, and then you can act and go back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore if this dress, in this dress... I am living being; you are living being. So we are in this human form of dress. We have got developed consciousness. If we miss the opportunity to understand God, then again we are put into the cycle of this evolutionary process. We should not therefore misuse this form like other forms. We should utilize it properly to understand the unlimited God and our relationship with God and act accordingly. That is perfection of life.
Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Still, this is axiomatic truth. Part is not equal to the whole.
Lady (Hṛdayānanda): But we are in evolution.
Prabhupāda: Evolution? No, there is no evolution. The part is part eternally, and the whole is whole eternally.
Lady (Hṛdayānanda): So she's asking does that mean that one does not integrate himself with the whole when he becomes evolved?
Prabhupāda: No, you are already in the whole. What is that?
Lady (Hṛdayānanda): She says, "Therefore we're all one."
Prabhupāda: One and different, that is our philosophy. Just like the one small screw is in the machine. So the whole is one, but the small screw is not equal to the whole machine. But the screw cannot be called the whole machine.
Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:
Prabhupāda: That is coming from mind.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, whether that has come all of a sudden.
Prabhupāda: No all of a sudden.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Or is it by gradual evolution from...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6). As you are thinking always, so you are creating your next body.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That still is not the answer. What we want is, at the time of creation of the material world, when all the species, 8,400,000 species...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:
Prabhupāda: There is a process, from aquatics to this, this, this, this, but when there is creation, all of them come at once.
Rūpānuga: So that process is transmigration of the soul.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Rūpānuga: That is evolution.
Prabhupāda: So in the last creation, if somebody could not come to the human form of body, now again he will be able to come. Therefore the creation is there. Another chance is given.
Rūpānuga: Yes. Otherwise there would be no chance.
Dr. Wolf: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there is the idea that matter comes from life.
Prabhupāda: Life, yes.
Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:
Prabhupāda: About false theory. Very good. (laughter) Very good, it will be very nice. You have all Kṛṣṇa's blessing, do it nicely.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then from fifth chapter it will be evolution versus transmigration.
Prabhupāda: Mm, yes, very good.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And explanation. That will be written by me.
Prabhupāda: Mm.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And then on the sixth chapter there will be a topic called "Molecular Evolution." This will taking the jumbles of the scientific findings, but we use it as a jumbles and turn around to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:
Prabhupāda: That is vṛścika-taṇḍula-nyāya. Is not that? The last chapter, what he means?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, this one?
Prabhupāda: Mm.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is molecular evolution.
Prabhupāda: Ha. Molecular evolution takes place when the light is there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually when they say molecular evolution, it talks only about molecules. They don't talk about life. Because they don't know what life is.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:
Prabhupāda: So you are also believing that life comes from matter? (laughter)
Guest (1): No, I don't think we think in those directions at all. We simply just conduct experiments, not knowing what they will lead to and try to describe whatever we see under the microscope. (indistinct) chemical matters that we use.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But I think you have assumed that Darwin's theory or theory of evolution is already there and even to study something intermediate, higher levels, evolution is all right but...
Prabhupāda: Basic means evolution.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they want to study more some of the intermediate stages like this metabolism in some...
Prabhupāda: Mother's, mother's body? No?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Any system, mother's body or any living systems.
Guest (1): What I can do is to study the growth and differentiation of the nervous system, different parts of the nervous system and how it is affected by lack of protein in the diet of the mother.
Prabhupāda: That is medical science.
Room Conversation with Bernard Manischewitz -- March 5, 1975, New York:
Prabhupāda: Sacrifice means restriction. One meaning of sacrifice is: if you believe in the śāstra, the animal is going to get next life as a human being. Because he is being sacrificed under Vedic rituals, so he is given promotion immediately, to human life. So he is not loser. His body being sacrificed before the deity, he gets the opportunity of getting a human life immediately, for which he had to wait perhaps thousands and thousands of years, because the evolution will go. Of course, after animal life the next life is human life. So anyway, he is given the concession to get a human form of body immediately after this body is destroyed, and with the right that he has the right to kill the man who has killed him. That mantra is cited, that "He was sacrificing your life, so you get immediately human form of body, and you can kill this man." So this is the Vedic rituals. Another animal sacrifice is there just to make experiment of the Vedic mantra. An animal is sacrificed in the altar, and he is given again life, rejuvenated life. An old cow sacrificed, and he gets a youth, young (body). If the animal comes out alive, then it is to be considered that the Vedic mantras are being recited correctly. Not to kill and eat, no, no, that is not the purpose. Just like in laboratories, they make some experiment on the animal, similarly this is like that. The animal is sacrificed, and he is rejuvenated in young life. Old life is sacrificed, and he gets a new body. Then it is to be understood that in this ritualistic ceremony the mantras are chanted correctly. That is their power. But because in this age such learned brāhmaṇas are not available, therefore it is stopped. No more.
Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Just wait one... (break) ...the cat's and dog's body. The cats and dogs, they cannot understand that, that life is beyond this body. But in the human form of life one can understand. He has got such consciousness. So by nature's law, by evolution, we come to the human form of body to understand this. And if we do not utilize this knowledge for understanding our real identity, then we remain cats and dogs, and we become again cats and dogs. By nature's law, I have been given this chance. If I do not utilize it properly, then again I become what I was before.
Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:
Nalinī-kānta: We have already had a hog's body. So we didn't like it. Otherwise, why would we change?
Prabhupāda: No. By the process of nature automatically evolves. That is evolution. They do not know. But nature giving him chance, this type of body, this, more intelligent, more intelligent, more intelligent... Then you come to the human form of body, very good intelligence. And if he does not utilize it, again he becomes a hogs and dog. Go round, merry-go-round. Merry-go-round. If you don't take... You have got now. By evolution you have got this human form of body. If you do not utilize it properly, then again you become hog. So again, for millions' years. So...
Rūpānuga: They say, "We don't remember. We don't remember being a hog, so what is the harm?"
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Rūpānuga: We don't remember being a hog, so...
Prabhupāda: That is hoggism, that you do not remember. Therefore you are hog. Because you do not remember, therefore you are hog. That is the distinction.
Room Conversation with Kim Cornish -- May 8, 1975, Perth:
Prabhupāda: Ātmā is not coming into being, it is already there. But at the present moment it is accepting different types of bodies. Just like your this dress is available in the market. And you are also there, so you purchase the dress and put on. Similarly, the different types of bodies are already there. You according to your desire accept one type of body, and you appear in that body. There are 8,400,000 different forms of body, and you have to accept one of them. According to desire. According to your work. You are working. Everyone is working. Now, according to the work and association, he is creating his body. Just like if you infect some type of disease, then you'll have to accept that disease. So we are working ways—we are individuals—and according to that work we are creating our next body. If you are working in a godly way, then you'll get your body next as god, and if you are working in a dogly way, then you'll get your body as dog. So, by nature's way, evolution, we come through 800 millions of forms of life, then nature gives us a chance to accept this human form of body. In this body, our consciousness being advanced, if we try we can understand what is the problem of life, why we have accepted birth, death, old age and disease, how to get out of these, how to revive our original nature of body and again become eternal, full of knowledge and bliss. This is the chance of the human body.
Room Conversation with Kim Cornish -- May 8, 1975, Perth:
Kim: One more question. What do you think of the use of drugs as an aid?
Prabhupāda: Drugs? That is another side of madness. Just like, human being, after the evolution of 8 million forms of bodies, he comes to human body to understand philosophy, these Vedas. So instead of utilizing life for that purpose, he wants to become again like the cats and dogs, and therefore he takes drugs. He is already cat and dog. He's no better than cats and dogs, because he has no interest in this knowledge. He was meant for this knowledge but he remains like cats and dogs, therefore he is not satisfied, therefore he takes drugs to forget himself. This is the philosophy of drugs. He was meant for becoming satisfied by taking this knowledge. He does not get the chance. Nobody leads him to this knowledge. He remains like cats and dogs, but as a human being if he lives like cats and dogs, he'll never be happy. Because there is no happiness, therefore he takes drugs, to forget. This is the drug philosophy. Drug philosophy means to forget one's present suffering. He must suffer, because his consciousness is developed. He must take this Vedic knowledge, but he does not take. Therefore he is dissatisfied, and to counteract the dissatisfaction he takes drugs. This is drug philosophy.
Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:
Prabhupāda: First of all, you have to understand what is the basic principle of civilization, what we want to fulfill, what is the goal. There are different species of life beginning from aquatics, fishes and animals in the water. Then, as the water dries up, then vegetation come. In this way there is evolution from aquatics to vegetable life, then moving, insects, reptiles. Then, gradually, birds. From insect, the flies come out, and then flies gradually comes to bird. Then from birds to beast, four-legged. Then from beast to human being. Then human being, the aborigines, uncivilized. Then you come to civilized life, which is generally known as Aryan life. So the Aryan civilization, Vedic civilization... In this way we get this human form of life, developed consciousness. Now we should try to understand, "What I am? Am I this body or something else?" That is the subject matter of enquiry.
Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:
Prabhupāda: That is Vedānta philosophy. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Now, by evolutionary process, we have come to the human form of life, and it is meant for asking, "What is my constitutional position? Am I this body, or I am something else?" The dogs, he cannot put this inquiry. A dog, he thinks that he is dog, that's all. He is jumping, he is barking, and eating, sleeping, and having sex. That's all. If I ask one dog, "Please sit down. Hear Bhagavad-gītā," it is not possible. But you are human being, if I ask you, "Mr. such and such, sit down, hear from the Bhagavad-gītā," you can do that. First of all we must know the difference between dog and me. The dog is incapable to understand Bhagavad-gītā. But human being... Just like we are selling this book in the Western countries, many millions of copies, because they are human being. We are not selling among the cats and dogs.
Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:
Prabhupāda: Yes. Reincarnation, you are already reincarnated. Where is your that childhood body? Where is that body?
Justin Murphy: Here it is. It's grown.
Prabhupāda: No. No, it is changed.
Justin Murphy: It's grown, it's changed, it's evolved, I have evolved. Just like evolution, I have evolved to the situations...
Prabhupāda: Anyway... Just try to understand. Anyway, that, your boy's body or childhood body is no longer. Either you say changed or grown, whatever you say, it doesn't matter.
Justin Murphy: But they're the same bones, it's the same skin.
Prabhupāda: But you are the same man. That's a fact. You understand that you were a child or you were a boy, youthful boy, jumping. You remember that body, but that body is not existing. That's a fact.
Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:
Prabhupāda: The knowledge should be acquired from the beginning of life, from childhood. But if by circumstances I could not get this knowledge from childhood, then we should begin immediately. Because unless we get this knowledge, our life remains imperfect. We remain animal. The animal does not know this. And after evolutionary process, coming to the human form of body, if we keep ourself in the darkness of animal life, then our this opportunity is lost. This is the first problem. Unfortunately, the modern education is... Leaders, they have no education, and they are thinking just like animal that "I am this body." Therefore you are thinking you are Australian, I am thinking I am Indian, he is thinking American, he..., only on this bodily concept of life. But we are not this body. We are different from this body. So unless we understand this point, our aim of life, our standard of civilization, is incorrect.
Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: Because the whole world was merged into water. So evolution takes place from aquatics, fish. Then, as the water dries up, there was vegetation, plants. Plants, creepers, trees. Then, gradually, the insects, moths, reptiles, serpents, they come out. And then, from insects, the birds, varieties of birds, and aquatics, 900,000. And eleven hundred thousand, 1,100,000 species of these insects and reptiles. And one million varieties of birds. And then beasts, animals, four-legged, there are three million varieties. So all together this is eight million. Huh? No?
Australian devotee: 400,000.
Prabhupāda: No, total human being, 400,000 species. Altogether, 8,400,000 species of living entities. So these are coming, evolution, by the laws of nature. You cannot stop it. The laws of nature, you cannot interfere. In this way we come to the human form of body, and especially civilized human being. Supposedly, it is the Aryans. The Aryan family, they are the topmost civilized group amongst the living entities. Now, in this life one has to enquire about himself that what is the difference between me and the dog? Why I am claiming a better position than the dog? What is the difference? The difference is that a human being, if he endeavors, he can understand his real constitutional position and he can understand God also. God. Therefore in the human society, civilized human society, there is some sort of religious system. It does not matter whether it is Hindu religion, Muslim religion, Christian religion, or Buddha religion. There is some religion in the civilized human society.
Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:
Journalist: Is that true? Do you believe that?
Prabhupāda: No, I have told you already, the evolution. The monkey is not our forefather, but in the evolutionary process we came through monkey. That is a fact. Because that is an animal, so we have to pass through three million varieties of animal's body. So monkey is one of them.
Journalist: When did we stop becoming the monkey and start to become a man?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that depends. By nature's course, you automatically come to human body. Now, in the human body it is a junction, whether you want to make further progress and if you want to go back again to the cycle of the birth and death and the evolutionary process. That is to be decided by you. If you want to go to God, you can go. And if you want to become again a monkey, you can do that. That will depend on your work. Yes.
Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:
Journalist: What about other artifacts of civilization like television and motorcars...
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is very good, just like we also use motorcar, but not for fashion. Suppose if we go for preaching. If we can go by car quickly, we take advantage of the car. We have got many cars for preaching work. So everything is good, provided it is used for progressive goodness. (coughs) That our mistake is that when... Now listen, there is the mistake in Darwin's theory also. He has no information that the evolution is taking place, of the body, by the desire of the soul. That he does not know. Just like sometimes people were happy and living in a small cottage. Now they are making big, big skyscraper building. So what is the difference? The cottage and this... The cottage is not becoming the skyscraper building but the man who was living in the cottage, by his desire the skyscraper building is coming. Similarly the evolution means the soul within the body desires a certain type of body and he gets it. Not that the monkey body has developed into human body.
But the soul within the monkey's body desired a human body, and he has got it. This is the process of evolution. The Darwin's theory, this knowledge is lacking. If he is thinking that the cottage has become big skyscraper building, that is not the fact. The owner of the cottage desired to have a skyscraper building, therefore he, from the cottage he transferred to the skyscraper building. It is due to the owners.
Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:
Devotee (1): Not too many flowering varieties.
Prabhupāda: No, not speaking of flowering. I mean to say varieties, plants and creepers, two millions. Lakṣa-viṁśati. Ten lakhs equal to one million, and viṁśati, twenty lakhs.
Hari-śauri: There was one newspaper article in the paper I was reading. They were advertising a new book about the evolution of man. And they were saying that there was approximately two million varieties of life on this planet. This was the calculation of the scientists.
Prabhupāda: Two millions? No, 8,400,000.
Śrutakīrti: You were saying the other day that all the species of life are mentioned in the Padma-Purāṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śrutakīrti:: They're all given account of.
Prabhupāda: They have given separate account or only on the total?
Hari-śauri: Only approximation.
Śrutakīrti:: An estimate. (break)
Hari-śauri: ...a drawing of the so-called missing link between the evolution from ape to man. They have given one drawing of a species looking like a man but hunched like an ape. And they're claiming this is...
Prabhupāda: Where they have got it?
Hari-śauri: ...that this type of personality was existing millions of years ago.
Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:
Guest 1: He's medium sized.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He is making the theory that life has come from chemicals by chemical combination, chemical evolution. Darwin's theory is also of that. This is their... Big, big scientists, they are so fool that life has come from matter. Where is the proof? He was lecturing in California University, and there was one student. He is my disciple. He challenged him that "If you get the chemicals, whether you can manufacture life?" That answer was, "That I cannot say." Why? You are putting this theory, that life has come from chemicals. So science means observation and experiment. Now experimentally prove that the chemicals have produced a life.
Radio Interview -- May 25, 1975, Fiji:
Prabhupāda: You are thinking this is Oriental civilization, but that is not the fact. The fact is this is human civilization. There is no question of east and west. Every living being, not only human being, even other beings—there are 8,400,000's forms of life—and Kṛṣṇa claims that
- sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya
- mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ
- tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir
- haṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā
- (BG 14.4)
So Kṛṣṇa is for the aquatics, the animals in the water. The vast sea, there are so many animals. Then, from the water, the trees are coming out. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. In this way evolutionary process is going on. But all of them, living entities, and part and parcel of God, Kṛṣṇa. So by the evolutionary process they come to the human form of life. Now there is developed consciousness. Now, the human being has to decide which way he has to go, again to the lower species of life or higher forms of life. The higher forms of life are there in the upper planetary system.
Radio Interview -- May 25, 1975, Fiji:
Prabhupāda: And they are big, big educationist. Anyway, there is no such department which deals with the transmigration of the soul. That is the defect of the modern civilization. So there is transmigration of the soul. By evolution, by transmigration of the soul, we have come to this human form of life. Now here we have to decide again. Because we are part and parcel of God, a small particle of the same quality... So God is fully independent. We have got also a little independence. So God does not interfere with our independence. Now here we have to decide which way again we shall go. We have come by the evolution, by nature's way. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Nature has brought us and given us a chance, whether we shall go to our original spiritual life or we shall remain in this material world by changing body one after another. That is to be decided. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is educating people that "Stop your so-called material advancement. You come again, back to home, back to Godhead."
Morning Walk -- May 27, 1975, Honolulu:
Bali-mardana: Now they will have to agree with you. It's so much trouble. But the thing is that the scientists will lose their jobs if they do not make people want to go to..., useless things.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But one thing is the people in general, they are so rubbish and brainless that they believe. They do not use their common sense. I am also one of the member, but I use my common sense. We have read from the Vedic literature the moon planet is influencing the vegetation in this planet, and there is no vegetation. The moon planet... These are explained that influencing vegetation in this planet.
Bali-mardana: Some big, big scientists, they had a convention about evolution and geology, but they made a rule at the beginning that during the convention no one could bring up the subject of divine creation or God. And then they will discuss.
Prabhupāda: Now they are going to, I mean to say, hold a convention that life is from chemicals. Our Svarūpa Dāmodara told. Japan it is going to be held. And by their resolution, it will be accepted. But they cannot create.
Morning Walk -- May 27, 1975, Honolulu:
Bali-mardana: Yes, but by Darwinism they become reduced to just animals, no better than monkeys.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is meant for the monkeys, not for any sane gentleman. Sane gentleman will think that "I have become now... By evolution I have come to this stage human being. What is next? And that is sane.
Guru kṛpā: That is a good argument.
Prabhupāda: He will think, "What is next? Is it finished here?" The rascal says, "No, after finishing, everything is finished." What is this? If there is evolution—you have come to this stage —then what is the next stage? That is natural. That is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). Now you can go to the moon planet if you try. Moon planet, sun planet, Venus and so many. If you become serious. And you can go to God's planet, mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. Now you select where will you will go. But there is spiritual planet. But what is their theory? That after finishing this body, everything is finished.(?) They do not believe in the next life.
Morning Walk -- May 29, 1975, Honolulu:
Bali-mardana: The whole theory of the scientists about the evolution of man—it rests on about four bones. The whole theory is based on a few bones they have found, about four different bones from the... One tooth and a jawbone and one more bone that they say are so many millions of years old. And this is the whole basis for their theories.
Prabhupāda: So there are so many bones. Why don't you create living entity from the bones?
Śrutakīrti: This side is very dirty. (break)
Prabhupāda: Light is light so long the sun is not there. Similarly, all these scientists are scientists so long God is not there. And as soon as God is there... Just like our men. They do not care for all this shining, shining light of scientists. The glowworm, they are light so long it is darkness. When it is sunshine, there is no use of these glowworms. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. This is the Vedic instruction. If you understand God, then you understand everything. Then you will not be allured by the so-called rascal scientist. Accident and this, that, bone. We are not interested. This side is better than the other side. When I was coming to America by ship, at night I was seeing, about hundred miles away there is one ship, a little light. There is a difference, so many miles. Vast ocean. Somebody live there always? No. Somebody is there.
Morning Walk -- May 31, 1975, Honolulu:
Prabhupāda: ...he thinks, "I am on the surf," then next life he will be fish.
Bali-mardana: All the surfers will be fish? If they think that within the water, they will be fish. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...evolution.
Bali-mardana: Then they have to come all the way back to the human form of life.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...childhood we used to play one chessboard, that one serpent is there. If the, what is called, the guti(?) ?
Śrutakīrti: Dice.
Prabhupāda: Dice, yes. If the dice falls on the face of the serpent, immediately it comes down. We have to come to the tail.
Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:
Prabhupāda: ...be done by Darwin, that he will live for fifty years; he is giving account millions of years. "Some millions of years after, this evolution takes place like this." Huh? Will he live for millions of years? Why he's talking of millions of years? This is a waste of time. He will live for fifty years or, say, utmost, hundred years, and he's talking of millions of years.
Śrutakīrti: Just like that man who wrote the letter yesterday. He's prepared to spend the rest of his life understanding the transfer, the transmigration of the soul instead of just accepting it in the Gītā. He's going to spend his whole life.
Prabhupāda: No, no. His non-acceptance means he's a rascal. He's a rascal. He may waste his time in that way. What can be done? His non-acceptance means he's a rascal. It's evident. Anyone knows that "After this, I will get another body." You are all young men. You know that you will get after some years a body like me. So what is the difficulty to understand that we are changing body?
Paramahaṁsa: So actually it's useless to try to give any more proof other than that.
Prabhupāda: That is sufficient for an intelligent man. That is sufficient.
Morning Walk -- June 16, 1975, Honolulu:
Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. He may distill one pound of water. That does not mean that... Why they are unnecessarily proud and denying the authority of God? How foolish they are. Therefore I don't like them, the most heinous type of atheist, not gentlemen. (break) Whenever they hold some conference they say, "Don't talk of God. Then you cannot come to the conference." Do they not? What is that principle?
Bali-mardana: Yes, yes, they do that. There was a conference on biology and evolution, and they made a rule at the beginning of the conference that "Whatever we discuss from now on is all right except that we will not discuss about God or anything, any divine factor of creation.
Prabhupāda: Just see how much atheist they are. Shameless atheist. Other atheists, they have got some shame. But these people are shameless. Shameless.
Bali-mardana: "Because we cannot see God in our laboratory, therefore we will not discuss Him."
Prabhupāda: But why do you teach us? We do not see whatever you say. We do not, so why do you place upon us? If seeing is evidence, then we don't see what nonsense you are talking.
Morning Walks -- June 18-19, 1975, Honolulu:
Prabhupāda: Everything is exactly like this. And in any circumstance they are happy. It is not that in Vṛndāvana Kṛṣṇa is a sannyāsī. He cannot see the face of woman. It is not like that. (chuckles) But because it is spiritual, it is all-attractive. There are also the trees, animals, the river, the fruits, the flowers, the father, the mother, the beloved girls, beloved boys, sporting among the cowherd boys, going to the forest, the cows and calves, everything. So that attraction is required. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they are thinking, "Again attraction like this? So make it zero, no attraction. Become zero." So their philosophy is zero philosophy. That is also no information of the spiritual world, Buddha philosophy and Māyāvāda philosophy, śūnyavādī, nirviśeṣa, without varieties or zero. Without varieties means zero. So two philosophers. But therefore they invent: "Anything is all right." They invent. After all, they want zeroism. (break) ...pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. (break) ...one increases the attraction for Kṛṣṇa, they will never be happy. (break) ...simply changing attraction on the material platform under different names. That will be failure. (break) Dr. Wolfe is missing that evolution?
Paramahaṁsa: Dr. Wolfe? Is he missing the evolution? Prabhupāda: He was speaking biological? Paramahaṁsa: Yeah, I think he was not understanding it so well. Prabhupāda: Means his understanding, that biological, not ours. Paramahaṁsa: Yeah, he's thinking biological evolution instead of transmigration of the soul. (break) Prabhupāda: ...go-kharaḥ. Anything evolving on the bodily concept of life, he remains an animal. That is the defect of the western philosophy. (break) ...philosophy, the dog's tail. He is always this way, material way.
Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). These materialistic persons, they do not know what is Viṣṇu or they do not know that his ultimate goal of life is to know Viṣṇu, or God. This is human life. But that is missing. They do not care to know that the ultimate, what is the ultimate goal of human life. This is the defect. Nobody cares to know, especially in this age. So that is the defeat of human civilization. They must know. This is the process, that... By evolution, they have come to nature's way, human form of life. Now they must know what is God. Otherwise it is defeat.
Dr. Judah: That's true.
Prabhupāda: The opportunity given by nature, good consciousness to know God, Viṣṇu. Now, practically, take anyone, especially in the western world. Nobody can say what is God. Is it not?
Dr. Judah: It's true.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Dr. Judah: That is quite true.
Prabhupāda: So in that position, if we are offering, "Here is God," why do they not accept? What is the objection?
Dr. Judah: There isn't any objection. I think the great problem, of course, in the western world is that the western world has always been involved in materialism and...
Prabhupāda: The western world... That means they don't want to know God. So this is very horrible condition.
Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:
Prabhupāda: So in this way life becomes perfect. If you want, you can go to the spiritual world. Spiritual world means no more accepting this material body. And so long we are in this material world we repeat one body after another. And if we degrade ourself to become criminals, then we degrade to the hellish planets down this universe. So human civilization means by nature's way, by evolutionary process, he has come to this body of human being. He should now decide that whether he should remain in this chain of birth and death or he should get out of it and go to the spiritual world. This training required. So throughout the whole world there is no such institution to study all this fact. They are going just like fourth-class men. They have decided out of their own accord that there is no life after death. Young men say that there is no old age, but nature will not agree. Your next life is old age. That is natural. You cannot say, "No, no, I don't believe in it." You believe or not believe, it will come. Similarly, you believe or not believe, your next life is there. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:
Prabhupāda:
- oṁ ajñāna-timirāndhasya
- jñānāñjana-śalākayā
- cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena
- tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ
(I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.)
Ladies and gentlemen, regarding Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... (about microphone:) It is working? We are talking about the spiritual existence of the living being. By evolutionary process we come to the human form of life, and here we have got developed consciousness. We can decide now which way to go forward. There are different planetary system. That we can experience. We can see innumerable planets, upwards and downwards. So the upper planetary system is called Svargaloka, or the heavenly planets, and the middle planetary system is called Martyaloka or Bhurloka, in which we are staying at the present moment, and the down planetary system is called Pātālaloka or downwards. Downwards means fall down, upwards means getting promotion, and middle means we remain where we are now. That is... Indication is given in the Bhagavad-gītā, ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā: (BG 14.18) "Those who are cultivating the modes of goodness, they are promoted to the higher planetary system."
Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:
Prabhupāda: Although we are different, still, in the spiritual world we can enjoy the same facilities in cooperation with God. We are trying to be happy in this material world. That is not possible. Because here there are four principles of miserable condition, which we cannot avoid. They are birth, death, old age and disease. In the spiritual world there is no such thing as birth, death, old age, and disease. Therefore in this life, in the human form of life, where we come after evolutionary process, 8,400,000 species of life, our consciousness being developed, we should decide now whether we shall remain within this material world or we shall go to the spiritual world where the life is eternal. There is no birth, death, old age and disease. So the Vedic civilization trains all human being how to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is Vedic civilization. We cannot be happy in this temporary material life. We are working very hard, but if we work a little only, not very hard, there is no need of working very hard. We have created a civilization that we have to work very hard. The Vedic civilization does not recommend that for sense gratification, you shall simply work very hard, day and night. This is not very good life. You should know what is the value of life, what is the aim of life. God has provided everything for our living condition.
Morning Walk -- July 12, 1975, Philadelphia:
Prabhupāda: That's all. He became a victim of the western people. Because the Oxford University was paying him very nicely, he became a servant of the western thought. (break)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...in the evolutionary cycle, the transmigration of the soul, we were inquiring whether there's any specific details in the Vedas about the step by step transmigration of the spirit, of the soul.
Prabhupāda: Yes. From the aquatics to the plants, and then insect, then bird, then beast, then human being.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then it's the same with the Darwin's Theory.
Prabhupāda: Darwin has taken from here, and he has tried to explain in a hodgepodge way so that he may get the credit, that's all.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: The plants have more consciousness, manifest consciousness, than aquatics?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Ravīndra-svarūpa: That plants and grass, they are more conscious than aquatics.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is also mentioned in the Bhāgavata, about different animals, how they are conscious, developed.
Morning Walk -- July 14, 1975, Philadelphia:
Prabhupāda: Every living entity has a particular type of intelligence which is greater than the other.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, in the evolutionary cycle. Talking about the...
Prabhupāda: No, evolutionary, cycle, the body may change, but every living entity has got a special advantage upon the others.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: What is the advantage of a tree, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: You see how they are standing there for five thousand years. You cannot do it. You cannot do it even for five minutes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually the trees are absolutely necessary for the survival of animals.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. We say nothing is necessary, simply Kṛṣṇa is necessary. That is material conception: "This is necessary. This is necessary." But Kṛṣṇa says, "Nothing is necessary." Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). You are simply planning and becoming entangled with so-called "necessary."
Morning Walk -- July 25, 1975, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: And then what is his position? Who has created his brain?
Rādhā-vallabha: This just came in the course of evolution.
Prabhupāda: So then why you are talking so much? It will come, everything. Why you are wasting time. Let it come everything by evolution.
Jagannātha-suta: They say, "Where everything has come from, that is not so much important, but let us take the forces that we have now, the forces of nature, and use them for the betterment of mankind. Where it comes from..."
Prabhupāda: What is the betterment?
Jagannātha-suta: "Yes, because years ago people would have to go out in the cold and chop a tree to get wood for fire. Now they simply turn the stove, and the fire is there."
Prabhupāda: That you say, that the wood was there and people were taking. You do not know. You are so foolish. The woods were there already and people were there. They were taking advantage.
Morning Walk -- July 25, 1975, Los Angeles:
Rādhā-vallabha: Yes. He said, "So we can see that the creator originally breathed the air of life into living objects, and from there on evolution took place."
Prabhupāda: That is good. (break)
Yadubara: ...that theory is correct, isn't it, in a sense, that the bodies are always changing? The bodies are always changing, so from the outward appearance it seems that the evolutionary theory is correct.
Prabhupāda: No, that is... We, accepting evolution. But their evolution is that there is no soul who is the proprietor of the body. That they do not know.
Morning Walk -- September 15, 1975, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: At least they admit the fault, hm? Do they?
Vāsughoṣa: Yes, some people... One hippie I was talking to, he was saying, "I believe in technology and Darwin's theory of evolution." So I said, "The greatest technologists in America have said that cigarettes can kill you. Why are you smoking these cigarettes?" He said, "Yes, I want to give it up," but then he kept on smoking. And to Indian people I explained about karma, you know, "according to your activity," and they all admit, "Yes, there is karma." So I said, "Why don't you serve Kṛṣṇa?" They said, "Later, later." They all say like that.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Dhṛṣṭaketu: So, your instructions in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam can stop their lust? It can stop... By hearing from Vedic authorities, their lust can be dissolved? Or do they have to just simply be frustrated in their attempts to enjoy sense gratification?
Prabhupāda: They are being frustrated. Who is successful in the material world? Have you got any instance that he is successful? (pause) Then?
Vāsughoṣa: In every field someone is miserable. Just in America there was one lady, very famous etiquette expert, Amy Vanderbilt. So she jumped out of her window. She was sixty-nine years old.
Prabhupāda: There are many. I saw in Detroit, I think. The bridge is covered?
Brahmānanda: San Francisco. The Golden Gate Bridge they have put...
Prabhupāda: Not Golden Gate. That San Diego, I think.
Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:
Prabhupāda: No, that... This I have already told you. There are 8,400,000 different forms of life. So you can enter any one of them according to your mental condition. We are under the control of the material nature. The material nature is being conducted in three modes: goodness, passion and ignorance. So just like three colors: yellow, red, and blue. Now you mix-three into three equal to nine, nine into nine equal to eighty-one. So these modes of material nature is being mixed up. Therefore there are so many varieties of life. So if we transcend this coloring platform of material nature, we come to the pure consciousness. Then we stop this repetition of birth and death in different forms of life. And if we do not that, then there is chance of going down or going up. There are different planets. If you cultivate the modes of goodness, then you are promoted to the higher planetary system, higher standard of life. And if you don't improve or don't go down, then you may remain in the present stage. But out of ignorance, if you still degrade, commit sinful activities, violate the laws of nature, then we go down again—the animal life, the plants' life, like that. But again we have to evolve, evolutionary process, by nature's... So it may take many millions of years. So therefore a human being must be responsible that "I have got this opportunity to get out of this cycle of birth and death and different forms of life, and let me properly understand God and what is my relationship with God and act accordingly so that if we understand what is God, then we go back to home, back to Godhead."
Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:
Jñāna: The scientists are saying the evolution of the body is purely by chance.
Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. Therefore we call them stupid, rascals. There is no chance. Kāranaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya, Kṛṣṇa says, kāraṇam (BG 13.22). There is no question of chance. Kāranaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Because you do not know how you are infecting... Just like you become all of a sudden attacked with cholera. You are thinking that it is by chance. It is not chance. Eh? What this medical man will... "It is chance." No. You infected somewhere. You do not know. And because you are foolish, you are taking it as chance. There is no question of chance.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Morning Walk -- February 3, 1976, Mayapura:
Prabhupāda: What is the meaning?
Jagadīśa: It's just evolution. There's no meaning. What's the meaning?
Prabhupāda: I do not follow what is the meaning. The sun is rising half past six, exactly at the time. So there is no meaning?
Jagadīśa: We can't tell what the meaning is.
Prabhupāda: That is... Because you are rascal, you do not know. You learn it. One who knows the meaning. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). You are fool, rascal. How can you know the meaning? You must have to go to the real person.
Morning Walk -- February 5, 1976, Mayapura:
Prabhupāda: And what was before forty thousand years?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Apes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And wherefrom the apes came?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lesser..., lesser-mentality beings. Everything originated...
Prabhupāda: So anything is a development. That is, therefore, called Darwin's theory of evolution. But where the evolution begins? That is the question.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It begins from these primordial elements.
Prabhupāda: So where that elements came?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were always there. They are eternal.
Prabhupāda: Then? Then why you say, "From this time it begun"? Everything is eternal. There is no question of beginning.
Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:
Prabhupāda: That means cheating themselves. What is the use of taking sannyāsa and cheat yourself? Material life means punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), repeatedly doing the same thing. Either as human being or as monkey or as a small ant or the demigods, but doing the business is the same, four things: eating, sleeping, mating and fearing. In different scale, doing the same business. Therefore it is called punaḥ punaḥ, "again and again," carvita-carvaṇānām, "chewing the chewed." If one is sober, he thinks that "These four business, I have done many, many lives, as sparrow, or as jackal, or as demigod, and I have got this human form. Again I am doing this? So what is benefit of this human form of life?" This is sense. "I got this valuable life, and I am still doing the same thing as dogs and cats and sparrows? Then what is the difference between me and the dogs?" That is sense. "What is my better engagement?" That better engagement is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then his life is successful. Otherwise what is the use of...? Again become a sparrow. Again wait for millions of years to come by evolutionary process to the human form of life. You see? This is going on. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram (SB 7.5.30). Because they cannot control the sense, they are going in the darkest part of this material existence.
Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:
Prabhupāda: That is not chance.
Madhudviṣa: They would say, "Everything is by chance." You say green, yellow flower with green leaf. So.... But through evolution there has been so many other combinations. Now we're just...
Prabhupāda: But then evolution is the cause. Then evolution is the cause. How you can say "chance"?
Madhudviṣa: No, it's just many, many different combinations. Now you are seeing the yellow and green...
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Madhudviṣa: ...so you are appreciating.
Prabhupāda: There is a process in the evolution. Therefore you find. You cannot say it's chance.
Pañca-draviḍa: Well the evolution happens by chance.
Prabhupāda: No.
Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: That is perfection of life. But if we don't do that, then we are going again to the evolutionary process...
Guest (4): That's right.
Prabhupāda: ...of birth and death. It will depend on my action.
Guest (3): Exactly. Will you agree with this point, that we are not perfect?
Prabhupāda: Well, anyone who follows the order of God, he is perfect. Otherwise all are...
Guest (3): Can you be completely perfect and follow the orders perfectly?
Prabhupāda: Yes, why not? Just like what is the order of God? God wants that "You shall always think of Me, 'The God is my Supreme Father.' " So what is the difficulty? Now, if you think, "God is the Supreme. God is the Supreme Father," if you think like that, where is the difficulty?
Guest (4): We believe that God is Supreme, He is like you say. But we believe we are constantly striving to become perfect, every day.
Prabhupāda: No, why constantly striving? God says that "You think of Me." So where is my difficulty to think of Him unless I am disobedient? I can think of God always. There is no difficulty. There is no expenditure. There is no disadvantage. But if I am rascal, I'll disobey. That is the.... If I am rascal, then I will disobey. I will not think of God. I'll think of something else.
Press Conference -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:
Prabhupāda: It is not my—everyone's. You are in ignorance; you do not know; therefore we are trying to educate you. It is yours also. It is not a personal thing. It is meant for the living entities. That you people, you do not know, that we are all living entities. There is slight description of the evolution by Darwin. But he's also not in perfect knowledge. The real fact is the..., I am not this body, you are not this body. I am living entity within this body. Just like you are within your coat and shirt. The coat and shirt you are not. Similarly, we living entities, we are within this gross and subtle body. The gross body is made of earth, water, air, fire, and the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence, and egotism. So we are within this. So nobody knows; there is no educational system, what is our real constitutional position. We are wrongly accepting this body. And that kind of acceptance is there in the animals. The dog also thinking that "I am this body." So if I am thinking like that, "I am this body," then what is the difference between the dog and me? We are educating from him that point of view, that the living entity is entrapped within this body, and according to his desire, he's changing different types of body and undergoing continually birth and death. So in order to save him from the cycle of birth and death, one has to understand God, or Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means God. Then he comes to his real, identical position as spiritual body, and then he lives forever. He lives forever.
Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: You give some opinion, and after some years you change it. So what is the.... How can I rely on your opinion?
Reporter: Would Darwin's theory of evolution and other evolutionary theories...
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. If it is being changed every year or every ten years, then what is the value of this opinion? There is no value.
Reporter: Well, but religious thought in India has changed over the years too.
Prabhupāda: No. Nothing. We do not change. Just like your Bhagav...
Reporter: Well, others ...
Prabhupāda: Bhagav...
Reporter: Others change.
Prabhupāda: Ah, others may deviate, that's another thing. But the system is not that. You cannot deviate from the Vedic injunction that if you have to follow the ācāryas, just like India is obeying. The mass population or the sane population, they are following the ācāryas. Ācāryas means great teachers, bona fide teachers—perhaps you have heard their name, just like Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya. So they are followed, and they are of the same opinion. Millions of years ago, what was the opinion, and that opinion is still there. Ācchā, take for Bhagavad-gītā. And that is.... Not a single Indian who does not accept Bhagavad-gītā as authority.
Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, oh, yes. That is Darwin's gradual evolution.
Mahendra: Except this is evolution of consciousness, growing bigger.
Prabhupāda: Darwin has captured that portion, how the body is changing one after another.
Duryodhana-guru: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Bhagavad-gītā it is said śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate (BG 6.41). So, for somebody who is now a disciple of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, are we to understand if he is not born in a family of devotees and if he is not born in an aristocratic family, that he was not a yogi in his past life?
Prabhupāda: Eh? Past life, they had some good deeds. Therefore they have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is called ajñāta-sukṛti. Besides that, whatever he may be in the past life, the movement is there, it is open for everyone. Everyone can come and take advantage, despite whatever he did in his past life. It doesn't matter. If he comes and if he is fortunate, if he chants, then he becomes advanced.
Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Thank you. So here in the material world happiness means sense gratification, that's all. So Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "The happiness of sense gratification, obtainable in any form of life..." The birds, beasts, human beings or even the demigods, cats, dogs—everyone has got the happiness of sense gratification, namely eating, sleeping, sex and defense. That is obtainable everywhere. But the spiritual happiness, that is obtainable in human form of life. Therefore the human being from childhood... Kaumāra ācaret prajño dharmān bhāgavatān iha (SB 7.6.1). From the very beginning of childhood. Why so early? Durlābhaṁ manusam janma. This human form of life is obtained after many, many births' evolutionary process. And adhruvam. There is no certainty that I shall live so many years. Although it is estimated that one is expected to live for at least hundred years—that is estimation—but at the present moment at least, nobody is living up to that. So even there is such indication, still, there is no guarantee. We can die at any moment. Adhruvam, but arthadam. Although it is adhruvam—there is no guarantee—but whatever period we get, we can utilize it for the best purpose. Arthadam. We can gain the ultimate goal of life, arthadam. That is... He is giving stress. Arthadam means spiritual realization. That is arthadam. Otherwise we remain like animals.
Morning Walk -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Rascal, why don't you produce it? Why you talk nonsense?
Rādhāvallabha: I can't produce. It has happened by evolution over many millions of years. I don't have that long.
Prabhupāda: So why you are dreaming? Do it practically.
Rādhāvallabha: We are not saying that we can do it. We are just explaining it.
Prabhupāda: Who cares for your explanation?
Rādhāvallabha: We have so many followers.
Candanācārya: One day we will do it.
Prabhupāda: That's it.
Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:
Prabhupāda: To understand God, a simple method. Simple method to.... Just like the earth is there, everybody knows. And from the earth different varieties of living entities are coming. The grass is coming, the plant is coming, then insects are coming, flies are coming, then by eating the grass or flies, the bigger animals are coming or they're existing. Take for four-legged animals, they are eating the grass, the plants. So they are living, their generation is going on. Then the human being is coming by evolution. So anyway, ultimately, they are coming from the earth. Is it not? Is there any difficulty? So we are coming from the earth or water or air, fire, there are five elements. Therefore on the total material elements is our mother. The mother means wherefrom one comes. He's your child because his body has come from your body. Everyone knows it. So every living being is coming out of this earth in different forms.
Morning Walk -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:
Satsvarūpa: Of course, evolutionary theory is that in the beginning, all the different species weren't there. Only simple forms, and then they..., more complex ones came about.
Prabhupāda: Wherefrom they came? Dropped from the sky?
Satsvarūpa: Some theories.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) has joined us, about fifty friends, Indians, they have left him.
Satsvarūpa: (break) I plan to go to Detroit tomorrow. (break).... shall we leave.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Tomorrow. We are leaving also tomorrow?
Satsvarūpa: Yes.
Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:
Prabhupāda: One must live very simply. Ahiṁsā means not arresting the progressive life of any living entity. One should not think that since the spirit spark is never killed even after the killing of the body, there is no harm in killing animals for sense gratification. People are now addicted to eating animals, in spite of having an ample supply of grains, fruits and milk. There is no necessity for animal killing. This injunction is for everyone. When there is no other alternative, one may kill an animal, but it should be offered in sacrifice. At any rate, when there is an ample food supply for humanity, persons who are desiring to make advancement in spiritual realization should not commit violence to animals. Real ahiṁsā means not checking anyone's progressive life. The animals are also making progress in their evolutionary life by transmigrating from one category of animal life to another. If a particular animal is killed, then his progress is checked. If an animal is staying in a particular body for so many days or so many years and is untimely killed, then he has to come back again in that form of life to complete the remaining days in order to be promoted to another species of life. So their progress should not checked simply to satisfy one's palate. This is called ahiṁsā.
Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:
Prabhupāda: This is the result. What is their explanation of the varieties of life?
Rādhāvallabha: They say, due to evolution over many millions of years...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The strongest, somehow they survive, and other, weaker species, they become extinct.
Rādhāvallabha: They say the origin of species is genetic.
Devotee (3): They say "Somehow or other..." Then...
Prabhupāda: Is that science? "Somehow or other." If I say, "Somehow or other, you'll become a dog," (laughter) what is the wrong there? If things are taking place somehow or other, so I say somehow or other you'll become a dog. Our explanation is complete. They accept somehow or other is a means. So somehow or other, you are going to be dog. How can you deny it? If that is your position, that things are taking place somehow or other, so how can you deny, somehow or other you'll become a dog? Hm?
Rādhāvallabha: They will say that "We have seen that these other things have taken place..."
Prabhupāda: But then it is not that "somehow or other." This argument cannot be. Nothing happens somehow or other. We don't believe that. Here is the cause.
Room Conversation After Film -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:
Prabhupāda: They'll never be able. Challenge. "That we cannot say." As soon as you say "Make an egg," "That we cannot say." And they'll chant "Chemical evolution, chemical evolution" and get Nobel Prize. Rascals. But how the people are so foolish that they believe in this?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oṁ ajñāna-timirāndhasya. Without spiritual master there is nothing they can say.
Prabhupāda: This is very simple. You see everything, white and yellow. Produce. Chemicals are white. Some chemicals are yellow also. Just like hydroform(?). It is yellow. And soda bicarb, white, or potash cyanide is white. So you have got so many chemicals, combine and pack it in a cell, and put underneath the incubator. Why rascal do not do this? Beat them with shoes. "Rascal, you are cheating in this way." Beat them with shoes. That's all. That is the only punishment.
'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:
Prabhupāda: So that shows the kind of structures for which designs would have to be there. Actually, the scientific explanation, the way that they explain how this comes about, is completely impossible, because they would say that either by chance it came about all at once—and the chances are way too small, so that would never happen—or else it would have to come by small stages somehow. But what would be a small stage in the formation of a workable motor? Can't even think of how that would work. So it doesn't make much sense. So what we wanted to argue was that these living structures are very highly complex, they have a very great amount of information needed to specify them, and then mathematically it follows that this evolution process can't happen, because the probability is way down, it's something impossible. So we wanted to argue that.
'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:
Prabhupāda: What is the use of such things? If you particularly study that this living entity is now in this mode, say goodness fifty percent and passion ten percent, in this way, but it can change at any moment. You cannot fix it up.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is good, because if we argue this we can always defeat this concept of evolution. Our main point is to defeat the concept of evolution.
Prabhupāda: No, no, evolution is already there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Evolution means material evolution, from chemicals.
Prabhupāda: No, no. It is not evolution. The species are already there, 8,400,000. Now the living entity is changing the position. The status is already there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, but they don't understand that.
Prabhupāda: They don't understand. That is their foolishness.
'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The question is, now we want to argue that how is it possible, now you are claiming that life is coming from molecules? If you claim like that, then how is it possible that in the same species, let's say in the birds, that these qualities are spreading? Some birds we see behave like a little influenced by the modes of goodness, though it is mixed. Like swan, we are taking that example. But some are like eagle, very passionate, wants to kill small birds as their food, and on the other hand, birds like crows, they like just to be completely ignorant, or they like to survive in a dirty environment. Why? Is this possible just from the concept of molecular evolution? It's completely, it's failing. They have no explanation along those terms. So we thought to bring up these points, it will be very clear that this evolution is completely wrong. So we want to use that...
Prabhupāda: There is no question of evolution. It is already there. This is a wrong theory. The monkey is there, the man is there. The soul is going from monkey to man. It is not the evolution. Just like you have got apartment, ten rupees, five rupees, twenty rupees, thirty rupees, like that. Now, as you pay, "Come on, here." There is no question of evolution. It is already there. Jantur dehopapattaye. These dehas, these bodies, are already there. So immediately it develops a particular type of desire, "Yes, come here, sit down." First class, second class, third class, fourth class is already there. As you pay, "Yes, come here." It is not evolving; it is already there. He is transferred from one apartment to another. This has to be convinced. We don't find that monkey's body became a human body. That is not in the experience, anyone. The monkey is there, the human being is there. But the soul is going from monkey's body to human's body, or monkey's body to another body. That is by superior administration.
'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:
Prabhupāda: The soul is being transferred from one body to another. Asatims caturam caiva laksams jīva jātiṣu.(?) Jāti means the form of the body. So the form of the body is already there, and the living entity is being transferred from one body to another. This is called transmigration. We have come here, not that that room developed. This room is here, that room is there, but I am transferring. Because they have no idea of soul, they are thinking that this nice room, now transform into this room or this room, transform... This is foolishness. A civil man transferred into jail—not that his civil house becomes jail. They are thinking wrongly like that, Darwin's theory. Body becoming changed. No. The different types of bodies are already there. The living entity is being transferred from one body to another. Just try to explain. So evolution you take that this apartment is better than that apartment, that apartment better than, and a living entity's going from one after another. So this is evolution. That you are now getting salary, one thousand dollar, now you get fifteen hundred dollars. So according to your qualification, you are getting.
'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:
Svarūpa Dāmodara: When we talk about evolution, in our understanding, evolution is evolution of consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We say karma. Evolution of karma. So karma is also based on consciousness. If you like to do a particular type of work, that can be changed, consciousness.
Rūpānuga: We can give them some examples. There's no harm, is there? To give them some example of different kinds of work and activity?
Prabhupāda: Just like eating. You are eating meat, you can give it up. If you think it is not good, you can give it up. What is the wrong there?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you think giving examples, or like making a division of these animals under category of these three modes is not proper? After all, all the modes are mixed. Now can we say that a cow is, although there are other modes, but predominantly the mode of goodness?
Prabhupāda: Predominantly ignorance.
'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is said daiva-netreṇa, superior administration. You cannot do it.
Rūpānuga: We have to simply teach them that evolution really means some...
Prabhupāda: It's taking place in this way, that's all. That much you can say. You cannot actually analyze a particular body, what percentage of this or... That's impossible.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually, we are not analyzing, but we're just giving this by seeing from practical example.
Prabhupāda: That is already there, one life after another. That is already there by superior arrangement. Very fine arrangement, exactly to the percentage of different qualities, the body is already there. Simply the soul has to be put into that body by superior arrangement. Say, first-class passenger, what does he require? The apartment is already made by expert, what is needed for a first-class passenger?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He needs some more money. He must be rich to get a first-class apartment.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but so far arrangement, just like Western hotels, everything is so complete. They know what a first-class man wants. So expert. They have already made. You don't require to say anything, that "I want..." So complete. But the steps are already mentioned. Aquatics, then plants, vegetation, then insects, reptiles, then birds, then beasts.
'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:
Prabhupāda: The whole evolutionary process means to bring the living entity to the platform of goodness and then transcend that platform also, come to pure goodness. That is devotion.
Devotee: Prabhupāda? You explained that all those forms are already existing. What is the meaning of all those forms if there is no one inhabiting them? Why is it that they all exist without...
Prabhupāda: No, no, how you can say nobody is inhabiting?
Devotee: You said that they are there, you just go to the different forms. So that means they are existing without anyone living there?
Prabhupāda: No, form, a class of form. It can be immediately, that A class, B class, C class, D class. So if you are fit for D class, immediately form for you, a D class body is there, made.
Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's one strange point here about calculating this that dawn of Brahmā about two billion years old. Now strangely these geological calculations, they also claim that at that time the first free oxygen in the air appeared, first time. The beginning there was no free oxygen. We can accept that? (laughter) Now from here, anyway, this is the basic point, that once this oxygen appeared, free oxygen, then the living entities began to appear slowly. That is the whole theory of this chemical evolution. The results for the chronology is just put it that dawn of Brahmā is two billion years old?
Prabhupāda: You can carefully read the Second Canto, Bhāgavatam, Third Canto. You'll get all the knowledge, how things develop. It is a question of development. So maybe there was something missing, but after development it is manifested there. That is possible.
Rūpānuga: In the day of, one day of Brahmā, there are fourteen Manus. And in the course of creation, re-creation of the same species from the previous day—they are re-creating the same species—it takes, there's some time, maybe one Manu, there's some species that are finished, but the next Manu...
Prabhupāda: That doesn't mean time.
Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:
Prabhupāda: That I want. (laughter) How they can say five thousand years? Things are going on for millions and millions of years.
Sadāpūta: The geologists say that in different strata, they give names for the strata, and in one strata they say that there is one type of animal remains to be found, and another strata they say you find the remains of a different kind of animal. So they say this shows evolution.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, it takes millions of years. So how they say five thousand years?
Sadāpūta: Well, no one really believes the Christians.
Rūpānuga: They are laughed at actually. The scientists, how far do they say? Five hundred million?
Sadāpūta: The scientists say it goes back six hundred million years.
Prabhupāda: That is also imperfect. If we study Brahmā's day, it will be all... Brahmā's day is, one day equal to forty-three hundred thousands of years multiplied by thousand, that is Brahmā's one day. So thirty days, one month, and twelve months equal to year, such hundred years. Your mathematics will fail to figure out. Is it not? (laughter)
Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:
Prabhupāda: Then it is all right.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: From here to here is the chemical evolution, there's a long gap.
Sadāpūta: I was wondering, perhaps these periods that they have here correspond with some of these floods, like this is between two Manus and there is a flood of the whole world, and that might pile up a huge layer of mud and rock. And I was thinking that might correspond with some of these layers here because they are filled with remains of fish that look as though they were buried, things like that.
Prabhupāda: That is also imagination. Again you are bringing imagination, speculation.
Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:
Prabhupāda: Venkateshvara? So by evolutionary process we come to this human form of life. It is a chance to understand the value of life, to understand God and our relationship with God, and if we are missing this opportunity, that's a great loss. Then you again become in another form of life. That is sure. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change this body, and if we are not prepared, what kind of body we are going to get next life, then we remain like animals. The animal does not know. And human life, if you are missing this important point, that "I am going to change this body, and what kind of body I'm going to get?" if I do not know, then what is the difference between me and the animal?
Dr. Sharma: Perhaps you can comment on the fact that in the movement, the Kṛṣṇa people, not only the sannyāsīs, but also the common working man, his karma is karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana. He also...
Prabhupāda: This is karma. Karma means according to that division, that brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. Karma means activity. There must be some prescribed activity. Just like you are professor, you have got your prescribed activities. He's the minister of ambassador's, he has got prescribed activities. So everyone has got prescribed activities in whatever position he is, but what is the standard of success, that I have done my duties, prescribed duties properly? What is that standard? The standard is given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam: (SB 1.2.13) whether you have satisfied the Supreme Personality of Godhead by your duty. Then it is success.
Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:
Prabhupāda: That is postdated check. "You take this million dollar check." "When shall I use it?" "After millions year you can cash it." This kind of propaganda no sane man will accept.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's like chemical evolution. Million years it will happen.
Prabhupāda: Billion.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, in a million years.
Prabhupāda: Then the answer is the chicken is better than you. He can give you life within seven days. Dr. Chicken is better... They are shameless. Not ordinary, because ordinary a human being will become shameful to speak something nonsense. But they are shameless. In that Bengali, duḥkhānvita(?) One man, one ear was cut off. So in order to hide his cut-off ear he was keeping this side to the river side and this side to the habitation side. So then again his two ears were cut out. Then there is no question of hiding. Both of them were cut out. So these people are duḥkhānvita. When both the ears cut out, there is no shame. They will go on talking all nonsense. Because they are accepted. So many millions of years have passed in the history, nobody could do that, and they are giving hope that life will come after millions of years. Why million? Here is a chicken, he can give life within five days. What credit you'll get after millions of years? But they are duḥkhānvita.(?)So shameless they can speak such nonsense and still pass on as scientists. Tibocham,(?) I think. Duḥkhānvita. No shame, you do not feel that why you are talking nonsense. Am I right or wrong? Here is a chicken, insignificant animal, he is giving life within five days, and we are talking of millions of years, and still we are scientist, Dr. Frog.
Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:
Prabhupāda: So the demigods means on account of their pious activities they get the situation in higher planet where the duration of life is ten thousands of years, and their one day is equal to our six months. Such ten thousands of years. Very beautiful body, facilities. There... The other day I was reading about the bodily construction of woman there. They are ever-young, the chest is very hard. (laughs) It is stated, yes. So such class of women is there, and aiśvarya, nandana-kānana, so many things. The roads are paved with pearls and jewels, not these pebbles. In the higher planetary system there is facility for higher standard of material comforts. So they get there birth and enjoy for ten thousand of years. But it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, kṣīṇe puṇye punar martya-lokaṁ viśanti. As soon as they spend up their resultant action of pious activities, then again drop down, kṣīṇe puṇye punar martya-lokaṁ viśanti. And again begins life from the grass. They fall down with rains, and then they grow as grass. Then evolutional life begins, from plant life to insect life, to insect life to bird's life.
Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:
Prabhupāda: Why? Transmigration for everyone. The Darwin's theory, evolution, it is like that, transmigration. The living soul is changing bodies, that's a fact. We can experience in our own life. The child is changing body to boyhood. The boy is changing his body to youthhood. So therefore it's a fact. The living entity is there within the body, and the body is changed. This simple truth they cannot understand. When a child grows up to become a boy, so what is the change? The change is body. But everyone knows the same child has become boy. Is it not? What do you think?
Guest (2): Well, when you leave this planet you go to sleep.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that is another thing. Studying, that a child is grown to become a boy, he has changed his body. Does it mean the living entity who was in the child's body is different from the living entity within the boy?
Guest (2): No difference.
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is a fact that the living entity is eternal and the body is changed. So where is the difficulty to understand this?
Vipina: They can understand it, but their scripture doesn't accept reincarnation.
Prabhupāda: Therefore you should give up your philosophy and science. That "Because my scripture does not allow me to become educated, I shall remain a fool." (laughter)
Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:
Prabhupāda: Our challenge should be "Do it." If you cannot do it, then you give up your title, let it go to the chicken. Huh? What is the wrong there, if we say "Dr. Chicken," "Dr. Frog"?
Sadāpūta: These theories of theirs are taught in high schools and colleges as fact, practically. Like the student in Gainesville was telling us that he was taking zoology, and they were teaching evolution, and they were saying that it wasn't a theory anymore but it was a proven fact, and that he was quite dissatisfied with that.
Prabhupāda: Proven fact?
Sadāpūta: Yes, that's how they are teaching it. They don't even teach evolution as a theory anymore, but they say it's been proven as a fact now, what they are teaching.
Prabhupāda: So how it is fact? You cannot do. So what is the fact?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are cheating.
Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:
Prabhupāda: He has got some? Children are not affected. Old men are affected. For children, if there is diarrhea, it is good, but old man, if there is diarrhea he is going to die. (break) ...evolution of man, what about the trees?
Bali-mardana: Trees?
Prabhupāda: Trees and plants and aquatics and insects.
Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:
Prabhupāda: Seeing only dead bodies?
Rāmeśvara: Dead bodies.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Stuffed dead bodies.
Rāmeśvara: They have this one display trying to prove that..., the Darwin theory of evolution. They have these bones, and they say this proves how man was formerly like an ape or a monkey. Now he has become more civilized.
Prabhupāda: So where is Darwin's bones?
Rāmeśvara: Then they have one display showing...
Prabhupāda: No, no, Darwin got all this knowledge. His bones should be studied first, how he got so much knowledge. And from which monkey he came. By studying the bones, discover it.
Morning Walk -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:
Prabhupāda: Similar description is there, bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām (SB 10.14.58). Bhavāmbudhiḥ, the great ocean of material nescience, it becomes vatsa-padam, just like the water contained in the hoof impression of a calf. Bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ param. Exactly animal civilization. Animal does not know what is future, what is past, what is going to happen, nothing. The human civilization has become like that. Professor Kotovsky said, "Swamiji, after finishing this body, everything is finished." He's a big professor in Moscow. This is their civilization. What do they explain about the lower animals? Wherefrom they come, the birds, beasts, trees, insects?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Where, in Koran?
Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say the modern scientists.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Modern scientists. One theory is the evolutionary process.
Prabhupāda: So wherefrom evolution begins?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: They don't know how it began. Some say it came from water. How does life begin? Nobody really knows.
Hari-śauri: They say there has to be certain combination of gases, ammonia, water, some hydrogen.
Prabhupāda: They cannot make this gas and combine?
Hari-śauri: This is the way they are testing for life on Mars. This is one of the tests.
Prabhupāda: No, why Mars? In their laboratory they can make gas and mix.
Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:
Prabhupāda: Our subject matter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that systematize... The progress of human society should be systematized according to śāstra. Just like your government, it is conducted under certain rules and regulations. You have to refer to the government regulative principles, and expert government officers, they are selected. Formally it was ICS, now it is IAS. That means reference to the authorities. Similarly, there are authorities which are called śāstra. Śās-dhātu means to rule. From Śās-dhātu, śāstra and śastra. Śastra means weapon. If you do not act according to the śāstra then there is śastra. Śastra means weapon, government. If you violate the rules of the government then there is police department, there is military department which will force you to accept the government regulation. And from the same śās-dhātu is śiṣya, one who voluntarily accepts the discipline.
- yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya
- vartate kāma-kārataḥ
- na sa siddhim avāpnoti
- na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim
- (BG 16.23)
The aim of human life is parāṁ gatim. Parāṁ gatim means the supreme perfection. Gatim means progress, and parām means the supreme. Our life is progressive. By evolution we have come to this human form of life through many forms of life.
Room Conversation -- November 20, 1976, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: People are so misled. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change this body. There is no preparation. "As sure as death." Death will take place, and you have to accept another body. Who understands this philosophy? Nobody. They are so dull-headed. This body finished, everything finished. All big, big leaders, scholars, they say. One gentleman, his name is... He was Rabindranath Tagore's brother, artist. So in a meeting he was saying, "We are so fool. Thinking of next life, next life, we are spoiling this life." He said like that long, long ago when we were children, young men, about eighteen years, twenty years. So I remember distinctly, he is saying in the meeting that "Simply thinking of next life, we are spoiling this life." He said. That was his explanation. So at that time we were young boys: "Yes, why we should think of, so much of next life?" Of course, I was not very much convinced, but naturally... I think his name Aurobindo Tagore, like that. Rabindranath Tagore. He is good artist. Artist means latest fashion, like this, like that, like that. He was considered to be latest artist. And his view is that. I talked with Professor Kotofsky. He said, "Swamiji, after finishing this body everything is finished." Communist. This is the cent per cent idea. The so-called scientists, they are thinking, by chemical evolution the body has come in existence.
Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:
Prabhupāda: This is all very easy to understand. Mother means from whom the child is coming, is it not? That is mother. Everyone knows. So you see this whole world, wherefrom everything is coming, you see, practically, gross knowledge. I see a plant is coming from the earth. A tree is coming from the earth. And according to evolutionary theory... Not theory, fact. The dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). When his plant life is finished, he takes another body, insect life. So the mother is the earth. That's a fact. I am eating the things which are... Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. I am a life. I am taking either grain or I am taking flesh, the material is supplied from the earth. The animal also, he is also eating the grass. That is coming from the earth. The earth is the mother. That is a fact. Now we should be intelligent, that simply mother cannot beget a child. There must be father. So who is that father? The answer is here. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). So where is the ignorance?
Indian man: This is Brahman.
Prabhupāda: And again. Kṛṣṇa says aham, why do you interpret in different way.
Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:
Devotee (1): I have just come from America, and at the universities, lots of times there are many questions concerning evolution and I was curious about what our position is in terms of artifacts. Bones like dinosaur bones and things like that that the scientists say they found.
Prabhupāda: Scientists are rascals. Those who are following Darwin. What is their theory?
Devotee (1): They maintain that from the oceans came one-celled animals. Then from these one-celled animals, they developed into fish and then reptiles. And then these reptiles became very big dinosaurs, and they have put together many big museums. For instance, in Washington the Smithsonian Museum has many, many big bones put together and they date these millions of years ago.
Prabhupāda: So we have got also the same theory. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. (break) ...within water. So where is the difference? We also admit the forms of life begins from the ocean. Then plants. As soon as the water is dried, there are plants, trees. Sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Sthāvara means "the life which cannot move." So the trees, plants, grass, they cannot move. Then insects, then reptiles, then birds, then beast, then human being. In this way the living entity is changing body. So what is the difficulty?
Devotee (1): But they say that the human body developed right from these other bodies. In other words...
Prabhupāda: Evolution, from beast human body has come. That is the difference? Even there is difference, what is the idea?
Devotee (1): Well, they maintain that therefore man was not created by God, but simply by chemicals.
Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:
Devotee (1): Yes. No one has ever observed the life coming from matter.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just prove that life comes from chemicals. How is that? "I am trying to be millionaire, therefore I am millionaire." What is this nonsense? You are trying to create from chemicals. Therefore you are scientist. What's this kind of scientist? Beat them with shoes. That's all.
Guest (1) (Indian man): I have a researcher in our family, and he thinks the theory of evolution is the daśa-avatāra.
Prabhupāda: You can think like that. Your thinking has no value.
Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Guest (1): The daśa-avatāras, that the first was Matsya and then Kūrma and Varāha, and finally...
Prabhupāda: That is God's pastime. He becomes like this, like that. It is not evolution.
Guru dāsa: God is not so morphic. He's not an animal. Just like we're in this room but we don't become part of the room. (break)
Śrutaśrava: ...so clear, but they refuse to accept it cause if they do then they will have to give up all their nonsense. You make all these things so crystal clear, but they refuse to accept because if they do then they will have to give up all their nonsense.
Prabhupāda: Refusal, let them refuse, and who cares for them?
Guru dāsa: Actually, if they were successful in any experiment they would be out of a job. So they actually want material life, scientists.
Prabhupāda: And now what is their science? This is science that "We are trying." What is this nonsense science? Do you think this is science? "We are trying." Everyone can say, "I'm trying." Is that science? Then? Any rascal can say that "I am trying." Is that science?
Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: That's fine. That's your process. You are trying to do something for the disease.
Dr. Patel: You see we must know exactly what is happening. After all, science is the same with the āyurvedic or allopathic or any. Science is... I mean, advancement of man's evolution of the man's understanding about things.
Prabhupāda: I say but somebody says that... What is the medicine? I take some āyurvedic medicine.
Dr. Patel: No, you do take. We don't say no. You don't take any medicine, we know exactly where you stand, as the modern science explains us. (break) Well, he may not (indistinct) truth immediately, but that is his aim.
Prabhupāda: Now I am feeling some dizziness.
Dr. Patel: Sit down, you sit down.
Prabhupāda: Where is that sitting place?
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) Go down. (break)
Prabhupāda: Harer nāma eva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva (CC Adi 17.21). (break) ...is a big tank of Calcutta Gas Company. That looks like this.
Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Another place, Vaiṣṇava says, either he is businessman, or doctor, anyone, they are all madmen.
- piśācī pāile yena mati-cchana haya
- māyā-grasta jīvera haya se bhāva udaya
(Hindi) Ghostly haunted. And he talks all nonsense. Similarly, anyone who is in the material condition, he is a ghost-haunted man. So he can talk anything, all nonsense. Piśācī pāile yena... This is applicable to everyone. Anyone who has got this material body, he's ghostly-haunted. Therefore we are explaining that verse, that first treatment is how to get out of the clutches of this ghost which has attacked everyone. So ghostly haunted man, he's himself a victim of the ghost. How he can treat other men? He's also haunted by the ghost. This is the position. You may, one may say, "I am haunted by better ghost." That may be, but every one of us ghostly haunted. And śāstra says this is treatment. Tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā, yasmād sattvaṁ śuddhyed (SB 5.5.1). Sattva, our existence, is polluted. (break) ...the skin and bone. The skin and bone will continue so long I am in the material condition of life. Either bird's skin... Just like who was talking of evolution, who was? This disease of skin and bone will continue. Because the spirit soul is not the bone and skin. The Darwin's theory, he is putting that the bone is changing.
Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: That means rascalism. Not a single soul has been created till now and these rascals are claiming that they are going... And they are scientists. We have to accept them as scientists. Just see. This is... Not only now. One gentleman, one big doctor, chemist, he has got Nobel Prize, he came to California and our Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara, he was in the also in the university, he's also doctor and chemist. So he was speaking on the chemical evolution. So he's my student, he challenged him, that, "If I give you chemicals, can you prepare life?" "That I cannot say."
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: They can't. That, this nonsense speaking, is going on throughout the history, but they'll never be able. That is the fact. "We are trying. We shall do in future"—these things are going on. But this is all stories. We don't believe in these nonsense things. They'll never be happy. That is not possible. Therefore I challenged your technology that "Where is that department? Do it!" First of all do it. Suppose if a man is in business. He may say that "I am trying to become a millionaire." But he cannot say that "I am millionaire." So the so-called scientist, "Yes, we are trying." You are trying, that's all right. But when you become, then you call scientist. There is no possibility, and because you are trying I have to accept you are scientist? Recently in California University one professor came. He has gained the Nobel Prize, Chemical Evolution. They are trying to prove that life is generated by chemical evolution. So in that meeting I had my one student. He's Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara. He's also big chemist. So he knows. He talks with me. He has got the idea. He has written one book, Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness.
Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Under false pride, he is thinking, "I am everything." Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti... (BG 3.27). "I can do anything by science, by this technology." That's... Vimūḍhātmā, great rascals. And these great rascals, they are leading the world. Therefore people are in darkness. They have become leaders, the so-called scientists and educationists and political leaders. All set of rascals, and they have become leaders. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are blind, and they are leading other blind men, so people are kept in darkness, and the opportunity of this human life is lost. By nature's way, by evolutionary process, we get this human form of life. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). Manuṣya, arthadam. Prahlāda Mahārāja says durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. Such life, important life, they are wasting like cats and dogs. So this is education; this is advancement. People are not given the opportunity to utilize this valuable life for understanding higher things. This is plight of this civilization.
Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: It is... You... You have been taught that Kṛṣṇa is an ordinary person, maybe little more in knowledge. That you are taking like that. Kūpa-maṇḍuka-nyāya. Kūpa-maṇḍa, the toad in the well, he is informed, "Oh, I have seen one Atlantic Ocean." So he is thinking "Atlantic Ocean may be.... This well is three feet. It may be four feet. Or five. Come on, ten." These rascals are thinking like that—avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā (BG 9.11)—that "Kṛṣṇa may be more intelligent by one feet or two feet. Let us compromise-ten feet." This is going on. And Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "I am the Supreme." They won't believe. They'll manufacture their ideas. This is going on. Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). They won't believe that. And still, they'll declare, "I am student of Bhagavad-gītā." They won't believe a word of Kṛṣṇa, and they'll say, "I am student of Bhagavad-gītā." This is going on. This is our position. In India everyone says, "I have read Bhagavad-gītā three hundred times," but he does not know even a word. So this should be stopped. If we want to advance actually, you take every word of Bhagavad-gītā and try to apply in life. Then everyone will be happy. That is a fact. The instruction is there. There is no difficulty to understand. There is no question of interpretation. Simply take it as it is and try to apply it in life—you'll be happy. And your human life will be successful. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Up to this human form of life, we have passed through so many evolutionary process, but if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then, after leaving this body, no more material body.
Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: These boys, although they are trained up from childhood how to eat meat, how to drink, but now they have no time. They never ask me, "Swamiji, give me one rupee. I shall go to the cinema." Never. They have no time. Anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt, all anarthas finished. These are the stages. Then his life becomes of devotion. Athāsaktiḥ niṣṭhā: "Yes, I shall stick to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Tato niṣṭhā ruciḥ. Ruciḥ means taste. Unless they have got taste, why they should remain with me? They are not coming from poor family. His father is a big lawyer. You know? Yes. So why he is living with me? He has got taste, rucis. Tato niṣṭhā tato ruciḥ, athāsaktiḥ. Asaktiḥ, attachment. Whenever I am there, they are coming. Asaktiḥ. Tato bhāvaḥ. "Oh, I am servant of Kṛṣṇa. I have to do this." These are the different stages. Sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ. These are the different stages, kramaḥ. Kramaḥ means gradual evolution. So you have to take that gradual evolution. But it will be done if you remain with the associate. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. They are giving this opportunity. Come here in our association and learn the art. I have seen in Bombay. The other day I went to a gentleman's apartment. He is.... The gentleman is earning two thousand, and the wife is earning seven hundred. But they are living in an apartment of this size. Within this, there is bedroom, and there is kitchen, and there is toilet, and everything is there. And if we say people, "Please come here. Take a room like this and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," they'll not come.
Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:
Prabhupāda: "And you do not know anything." (laughter) What is the use of... So we shall go further? No.
Bhāgavata: Would you like to return?
Prabhupāda: No, we shall go. The, what is called, evolution theory... Darwin said they take from monkey. But they do not know wherefrom the monkey comes. Does he give it chronologically?
Satsvarūpa: No. They say that both humans and monkeys come from a common ancestor. But they don't know what that is.
Prabhupāda: Who was your ancestor? (laughter) Jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-vimśati. There is chronological order followed: first of all aquatics, then trees and plants, then insects, then reptiles, and in this way, then birds, then beasts, then human being. Which way? This? No.
Bhāgavata: If you want to go out, this way. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...it from Padma Purāṇa, and he has explained in his own imagination. The idea has been taken from Padma Purāṇa because the Padma Purāṇa, it is already there, evolution. Asatiṁ caturaṁś caiva. Eighty-four lakṣa means hundred thousand, 8,400,000. That is also given. Where is that, that Darwin's theory?
Bhāgavata: They have no number of species.
Prabhupāda: Imperfect idea. He wanted to credit himself. He has stolen the idea from Padma Purāṇa and wanted to explain in his own way, imagination, speculation.
Bhāgavata: The actual evolution is that the soul goes...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:
Prabhupāda: "Make me sick." What does he mean by this?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He says... See, his theory of evolution cannot explain how these eyes are evolved, our eyes. So he felt very uncomfortable just seeing in the beginning these eyes, our eyes. But he says that stage he has overcome to some extent. But still, one particular phenomenon is bothering him very much. That is the eye in the peacock's tail. It is the delicate, nice design with is colorful structure.
Prabhupāda: How it evolved.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, how it evolved. He cannot explain by his theory. So he said whenever he gazed at it, that makes him sick.
Pradyumna: It's the opposite of the devotee.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Rascal. Artificially how long you'll stand?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually he has... He has remarked many important things for us also, especially in his autobiography. We are quoting some of his words saying that when he was young, in his childhood, he was very fascinated by works of art like reading literature, like works of Shakespeare and poets like Byron, Keats, and Shelley. He said he was very fascinated in his childhood.
Prabhupāda: No, he was a thoughtful man, undoubtedly.
Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But when he finished his book, The Theory of Evolution, in his old age, he said he lost all the taste. He said whenever he starts to remember his youthful days, he said, he's almost at the point of nauseation, almost vomiting. Whenever he remembers Shakespeare, Byron, and all these things, he says he begins to vomit.
Prabhupāda: He became too much prosaic. He became prosaic. He could not appreciate poetic.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He said he lost all taste in life. He said it's..., no meaning. He said life becomes no meaning, has no meaning and no purpose. He said he lost all his taste.
Prabhupāda: He regrets.
Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:
Prabhupāda: But why man is producing man? Not the ape? Just see how they lunatic they are.
Bhāgavata: Why does the process of evolution stop?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's convenient to assume that way, but that's not a fact.
Gurukṛpā: Convenient means for your sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: So we have to discuss so many things, immense field. Go out... (break) At least you have to accept that "I am blind." So how you can show others the path? You are blind.
Jayapatākā: By distributing your books, Śrīla Prabhupāda, then the people begin to realize that the scientists are blind. Once they begin to disbelieve and doubt the scientists, then the scientists themselves will also...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:
Mādhava: The scientists' answer? Well, immediately they would not say evolution, because it takes many billions of years to say evolution.
Prabhupāda: Evolution..., apart from evolution, when I dig a pond, water comes out. You don't touch, after few days, after few months, there will be fishes.
Mādhava: They would say there are eggs in the stream and...
Prabhupāda: Wherefrom the eggs came?
Mādhava: From another fish.
Prabhupāda: Wherefrom the eggs came?
Mādhava: From another fish.
Prabhupāda: Where is another fish? There was no fish when you dug this well. These rascals are great rascals, and they are going on in the name of scientists. Another, another, where is that another? Another means that is God. These rascals, they do not know that. They simply "another." Who is that another? That is God. Simple logic.
Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: All sorts may go, but you must know the real message, that within this machine the owner of the machine, the driver of the machine... All sorts of... There are three thousand parts in a motorcar. You have all sorts of knowledge about the parts of the car, and you do not know who is driving, then what is this knowledge? Every paper, every learned man, every..., every should take it seriously and implement it. It is not meant for everyone. Still, there must be an institution to teach this, I mean, the highest standard of knowledge to the human being. Why they should simply jump like cats and dogs? This is our mission. So don't try to imitate cats and dogs, but be human being. Understand what is your position and cultivate that knowledge. That is nature's way. The evolutionary process, after 8,400,000 species of life, it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that if you don't understand this opportunity, then nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). Find out this verse. Aprāpya mām. Aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā dharmasyāsya parantapa. "Those who are not interested in the teachings of the Bhagavad-gītā, the result will be he will not understand Me, God, and he will again return to the cycle of birth and death."
Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: So here there is no question of salary. Here the institution must be maintained, strictly following the principles of Bhagavad-gītā. It is open. It is not difficult at all. Just like Kṛṣṇa says the perfect life, how one can become perfect, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "Always think of Me," man-manāḥ, "just become My devotee," mad-bhaktaḥ, "worship me," mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, "simply offer your obeisances unto Me." One, two, three, four-four items. If you do one item at least, your life becomes successful. Even this child can do this. So to understand Bhagavad-gītā and follow the principle—not at all difficult. It is not reserved for any particular class of men or country or society, such a nice thing, and the human body is meant for understanding this knowledge, not to imitate the cats and dogs, jumping. This is being done by the cats and dogs. By evolutionary process, when we come to the human form of life, it is meant for understanding this science. So this opportunity there is, but we are blocking them not to take this knowledge and try to understand how to jump like cats and dogs. Greatest disservice to the human society. We have got such chance, so instead of helping you to get the chance, if I mislead you another way, is it not greatest disservice?
Mr. Rajda: Yes.
Conversation with Yadubara (after seeing film) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:
Yadubara: Do you think there should be any sequel to this film? In other words, to carry on the philosophy?
Prabhupāda: No, you have given the evolution of from fish to plant, plant to insect, bird, animal. That can be little elaborately, evolution. Then human being, full consciousness. Now, this is the chance for understanding God. And if they are still kept in darkness like the animals, that's a dangerous civilization. Refusing the opportunity to the humanity. By knowing this, you can get out of this continual evolutionary process. That is anti-material world, Vaikuṇṭha world, where you can actually live. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. He does not take birth, neither dies, and dances with Kṛṣṇa. That is life. That we are wanting. We are seeking after. It is not possible here. Here you have to go through the evolutionary process again and again if you don't take the opportunity for going back to home, back to... Then it is your misfortune. So this civilization keeping people in their unfortunate condition. Mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). This is opportunity to understand God and go back to Him, but that opportunity is being refused.
Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: They are... They are... They are described in the Bhāgavata, pāpinaḥ. Those who are killing other animals for maintaining his own body, they are very, very sinful. Very, very sinful. Therefore untouchable. According to Vedic civilization, the animal-killers, mlecchas, they are untouchable. They are so sinful.
Dr. Sharma: They talk about killing of animals for wants of survival. Darwin's case has been brought in, put in, survival, struggle for existence. I mean to have a talk with Dr. Svarūpa. Even the key of the evolution theory by Darwin, he is not feeling itself. It has lots of...
Prabhupāda: He has described in his book, Darwinism. What? What you have described?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is knowledges based on some simple speculation.
Prabhupāda: Speculation. It is not sound knowledge.
Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: And we see sṛṣṭi-tattva, Mahā-Viṣṇu, is coming through water, Kāraṇa-jala. The same process... We are aṇu; He is vibhu. Yaḥ kāraṇārṇava-jale bhajati sma yoga-nidrām anantam (Bs. 5.47). Kāraṇārṇava-jale.
Bhavānanda: In Darwin's evolutionary theory also he says, from the water life came. Correct?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. They also say life from water.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Registered?
Mahāṁśa: These are the Deities.
Prabhupāda: Not yet registered?
Mahāṁśa: Not yet finished.
Prabhupāda: Why it is remaining to be done?
Mahāṁśa: They have asked for fifteen thousand rupees instead of nine thousand because we put a value of the land on six lakhs, and they have valued it as ten and a half lakhs. So I just wrote a letter to Your Divine Grace, asking whether we should pay them the amount and go ahead or...
Prabhupāda: Pay on protest.
Conversations with Kirtana Groups -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Recently they also found out that there are some, called bacteria. They live in a very unusual circumstances. They can survive to 150 degrees. And sometimes they live inside ammonia, ammonia solution, without water. They can survive.
Prabhupāda: Not without water. There is water, but not as much. Just like on the land there is water, but in the sea there are so much water. So there is life; there is life. We don't say that in the land there is no water. Everywhere is there different. So this evolution, jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi, it has developed the same way. The first life comes out... Then everywhere there is life. The transportation from higher planet to lower planet, water.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Water?
Prabhupāda: The rainfall. With the rainfall, those who are fallen souls, they are coming down. Then takes shelter within the atom. Then again grows.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's interesting that science says also that in the beginning there was only hydrogen. So actually water is... Its main composition of two parts of hydrogen...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Morning Talk -- June 19, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: You have to accept a change of body. Change of bodies you have to accept from your argument. You were monkeys; now you are human being. This is change of body.
Śatadhanya: Evolution means change of body.
Prabhupāda: That is real evolution. What do they know of change of body? Therefore I say that, that you people, your brain is filled up with stool. You require thorough washing. You are not civilized. What is meaning of civilization? Improve animal life to civilized life. A dog can walk on the street naked; a man cannot. That is civilization. Otherwise dog is eating; you are eating. He's sleeping; you are sleeping. This is civilization. (indistinct) Culture. You have no knowledge of culture. Real knowledge is this: the body is there and changing; the soul is there, eternal. Then you become on the platform of God. If you remain in the same ignorance, then where is your advancement of civilization? If you cannot understand the simple truth, then where is your civilization?
Śatadhanya: They have no civilization.
Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: So let them issue later on, and you can make.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Sometime we are preparing, called, a brochure for this lecture series. We'll make it color. So I already have the outline in Boston. So we're titling, "Announcing a Worldwide Lecture Series on the Origin of Life in the Matter, sponsored by Bhaktivedanta Institute for Higher Studies and Founder-Ācārya His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda." And we have some colored pictures inside and a little also, synopsis of the theme, the topics. We said, "Chemical Evolution-A Molecular Fairy Tale," and we have about three or four lines describing what the lecture should be about and what is the main theme of the talk. And we also have photographs of four or five of us who are going to speak and a little background of the candidate. So we wanted to make it very official.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And also making it nice-looking.
Prabhupāda: And print very well.
Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, so we titled, called, Chemical Evolution-A Molecular Fairy Tale.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And we have developed...
Prabhupāda: (laughs) That is very nice.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And we also have a little chapter called "Intellectual Dishonesty Among the Scientists," and said, "Let's be honest about it. These things are not scientific."
Prabhupāda: This is intellectual dishonesty. They produce sputnik and going to the moon in the laboratory.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And then it is exposed, "Moon Hoax." This is intellect... There was a... There were many films. One film was... What is that? A big monkey?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: King Kong.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) King Kong. They are producing chemical laboratory, yes, studio, and the monkey played...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they showed him going up and down the Empire State Building in a movie.
Prabhupāda: And it was so interesting, it gathered so many public to see.
Room Conversation -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Kṛṣṇa baḍo doyāmoy, koribāre jihwā jay. Kṛṣṇa-prasāda... (Bengali conversation) The real fact is that this jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. One life is food for another life. That is nature's way. But one has to pass through so many varieties of life, evolution. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. How many millions of years we'll take to evolve to become a human being. Then he gets chance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Payeche mānava janma, mano rañjanam alpa.(?) Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). Emona janma, this janma, manuṣya-janma. And if we miss and don't get Kṛṣṇa, again glide down. Mām aprāpya mṛtyu-saṁsāra. Again you fall down. I'll eat you; you eat me. And the aquatic, 900,000 species, varieties of life. The same struggle, one fish eating another fish. Struggle within the water. A small fish can understand three miles away a big fish is coming. It is all stated in the Bhāgavata. This struggle is going on. Then in the jungle animals. The man-eater trees are there in Africa. Trees, man, eat man.
Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: A new light.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's going to be an international symposium in Madras early next year about the what they call complex light molecules in evolution and there's going to be some Nobel prize winning scientists. So we'll be writing a letter to present our paper in that symposium. That's first week of January next year. If we can present one paper that will be I think quite good. (break)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi with Kavirāja)
Adri-dharaṇa: Did you have good rest last night, Prabhupāda?
Kavirāja: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: At the end of the night.
| Page Title: | Evolution (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | SunitaS, Mayapur |
| Created: | 26 of Aug, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=165, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 165 |