Expressions researched:
"everything is spiritual"
Prabhupāda: Yes, śabda is originally spi..., śabda-brahman.
Allen Ginsberg: We have to find out if all the...
Prabhupāda: Simply you have to understand that there is nothing material, everything is spiritual. That is required. So long you do not understand that everything is spiritual only, that is our defect.
Prabhupāda: Actually in higher sense there is nothing material because everything is emanating from God, therefore everything is spiritual.
Dr. Weir: Well, that's true but the electron, as far as you can say, may be spiritual.
Prabhupāda: There is no distinction in higher status because we say that everything that we see that is manifestation of God's energy.
Dr. Weir: Exactly.
Prabhupāda: Energy. So in that sense, if it is God's energy there is nothing material. It is material when we forget God. That is material.
Prabhupāda: Light is in relationship with the fire. So light is not different from the fire. Unless there is fire there is no light. There is no heat. So as soon as you feel heat or see light the fire is there. In higher sense those who can realize immediately realize that there is fire. Just like here there's light. Immediately you can understand there is fire. There is electricity. So it is a question of realization. In the higher realization there is nothing matter. Everything is spiritual. Simply when you forget God that is material. That is material.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, my question being, so they have all the variegatedness in the spiritual world?
Prabhupāda: Yes there are trees, there are water, birds, beasts, but they are all spiritual. Just like here everything is material. Here water is working according to the material laws. In the spiritual world if I say, "Please come here," he will come here. That is spiritual world.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the difference is that the spiritual...
Prabhupāda: Everything spiritual... As here everything is material, there everything is spiritual. Now try to understand what is matter, what is spirit. Spirit, as I was explaining yesterday, the spirit is the conductor, operator, of the aeroplane. So matter is working under the guidance of spirit. So there everything being spirit, there is no necessity of another spiritual guidance.
Prabhupāda: Energy is not different from the energetic. Sunshine is not different from the sun. Idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān ivetaraḥ. Everything is Bhagavān, but it appears like different.
Yaśomatīnandana: Is that what it means by sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yaśomatīnandana: Everything is spiritual, but when it is... due to our ignorance, we think it is material.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but don't associate with... (indistinct) ...must realize.
Yaśomatīnandana: So Māyāvādīs artificially think that?
Prabhupāda: Yes. They have no realization.
Dr. Wolf: Can one assume that matter is a kind of energy?
Prabhupāda: Yes, matter is also energy of God.
Dr. Wolf: But which of the three types of energy does matter come from?
Prabhupāda: Matter, material.
Dr. Wolf: The material energy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In the material world there is question of matter and spirit. In the spiritual world simply everything is spiritual.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So actually there is nothing material. When God consciousness is there, it is spiritual. This... In association with God, everything becomes spiritual. Just like there is a church and there is an ordinary house. People say, " This is church, God's place, and this is house." What is the difference? That is also made of bricks; that is also made of bricks. Why people go to the church? Why not to the house? So the conclusion is, when the atmosphere is surcharged with God consciousness, it is spiritual. Immediately. Otherwise, as soon as you forget God, then it is material. Material and spiritual means where there is no forgetfulness of God, that is spiritual. And where there is forgetfulness of God, that is material.
Jesuit: Hm. Sort of a figurative use of the word.
Prabhupāda: Not figurative, it is actual. Actually, God is all-pervading. Everything is God's energy. Therefore God is whole spirit. His energy cannot be material.
Jesuit: Yes, I can see that.
Prabhupāda: The material is, as soon as we forget the relationship with God. That is material.
Jesuit: Um hm.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise God is everywhere.
Jesuit: But we're using the words in a figurative sense there. I mean...
Prabhupāda: No, it is actually. Just like the sunshine...
Jesuit: This is matter (knocks on something). This is matter.
Prabhupāda: This is matter so long we forget God.
Jesuit: But no matter what you do to this, it will still remain matter.
Prabhupāda: It is energy of God. Matter is also...
Jesuit: But it is still matter.
Prabhupāda: ...inferior energy of God. Matter is not different from God. Find out, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Because everything is emanates from God. He is the father of everything.
Jesuit: God has created everything, yes. But not everything is spiritual.
Prabhupāda: That I already said, that God is..., everything is depending on God, but not everything is God.
Jesuit: No, true. So this, no matter what you do to it, it must remain matter.
Prabhupāda: This is matter, but when it is used for God, this is spirit.
Jesuit: Well, that's why I say it is figurative use.
Prabhupāda: The same example, just like...
Jesuit: It still remains wood.
Prabhupāda: ...the church is made of matter, wood and stone, but it is spirit, because here there is nothing other business than God. So the real thing is, matter means forgetfulness of God.
Bahulāśva: Prabhupāda, the professor asked what is the relationship with the soul and the mind?
Prabhupāda: Mind is there in the soul, but the mind is now polluted by material contamination. Just like a madman. He has got his mind, but his mind is contaminated. Therefore he requires treatment by psychiatrist. You cannot say the madman has no mind. He has got mind, but it is contaminated. You have to make treatment. So mind is there. Everything is there in the soul. And now the mind, contaminated by the matter, it is perverted. The same example: A madman has got mind, but it is useless. He is simply acting in madness. The same madman, when properly treated, he will act like a sane man. So mind is there always, in the pure soul or in the material body. Everything is spiritual. The soul is spiritual; the mind is spiritual; the intelligence is spiritual. But it is now contaminated. So you have to make treatment. When it is purified, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then mind is controlled, intelligence properly acting, and soul is in his proper position.
John Mize: When the soul was in the spiritual sky, it also had a mind and an intelligence like here?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Yes. Unless he has got mind, how he misuses intelligence?
John Mize: But he misused that intelligence in his freedom, his independence.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Mind is there also. That is spiritual mind. Everything is spiritual. There is nothing material. Body spiritual, mind spiritual, intelligence spiritual, he is spiritual, the land spiritual, water spiritual—everything is spiritual. That is spiritual world. Here in the material world, except the spirit soul, everything is material.
Hari-śauri: (break) ...last night, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and he was saying that if everything is ultimately spiritual, if one is spiritually advanced, he sees everything as spiritual. Then if everything is spiritual, then we can carry on just doing the same things that we're doing now, because it's all for God.
Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa says that "Everything is My energy, but..." Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni nāhaṁ teṣu: (BG 9.4) "But I am not there." This is the answer. Everything is Kṛṣṇa's expansion, but not that everything is Kṛṣṇa.
Indian man (2): It is also not spiritual.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Indian man (2): The energy is there, but it is not spiritual.
Prabhupāda: No, it is spiritual, but because I do not know Kṛṣṇa, therefore I see material. Just like this microphone. It is being used for Kṛṣṇa; therefore it is spiritual. Actually, originally, it is from Kṛṣṇa. So we are not using these material things. Everything, whatever we using, that is spiritual.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, anything coming from Kṛṣṇa—Kṛṣṇa is supreme spirit—it is spiritual. The devotees, they understand that "This fruit has come from Kṛṣṇa. The flower has come from Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it must be offered to Kṛṣṇa. It is for use." Otherwise how the fruit becomes spiritual? We take prasādam. How it becomes..., the same fruit? No. Because the Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there, it is spiritual. It is spiritual, but it was not known. When one comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he understands that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Hari-sambhandhi vastūnaḥ. Everything has got relationship with Kṛṣṇa. That's the fact. So if anything has got relationship with Kṛṣṇa, so that is not material. We are going to a house, but it is said "temple." Why? Because there is relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise where is the difference between the next house and our house? So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that everything is spiritual, but we do not accept it. We accepted something else. That is material.
Pradyumna: Just as the glove has a certain form because the hand is shaped like that, the material body of a human has that form because the spirit is in that form? And the tree has that form because the spirit is in that form?
Prabhupāda: Here difficulty is that the form is fixed up. That is not.... Just like Kṛṣṇa appears in so many forms, everything is spiritual. So what do you think?
Devotee (2): So the form in the spiritual sky is not absolute either? We can take different forms in the spiritual sky?
Prabhupāda: Yes, there are also many forms, but all of them are spiritual. The Vṛndāvana. There is tree, there is Yamunā water, there is land, there is cow, there is calf, there is gopas, gopīs, they are all spiritual. Just like from earth you make many forms, but they are earth. You make pots, you make dolls, but they are all earth. Similarly, spiritual world, there are many forms, they are all spiritual. What is the difficulty?
Pradyumna: Does that form ever change? That form changes also?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Because everything manifested is creation of the original transcendental Sound, therefore, factually everything is spiritual. But being covered by material cloud, we do not appreciate properly the spiritual nature of everything. The Krishna Consciousness Movement means gradually advancing towards that stage of spiritual realization. As such, the philosophy of acintya bhedabheda tattva is perfect. Everything is simultaneously one and different from the Supreme. One in quality because the original source is the Spiritual Whole, and different in quantity. This quantitative difference becomes more and more separate by increase of material consciousness.
2) Ginsberg says these words are physical in a frankly physical universe. But this is not true, for actually everything is spiritual. It is only under certain conditions, viz. forgetfulness of Krishna that this internal or spiritual energy of Krishna becomes material. Therefore when we hear the name Krishna, which is identical with Krishna, we must remember, and in that way everything is purified.
Regarding your questions, in the spiritual sky everything is spiritual, so Krsna has no need for living in the heart. They are seeing Krsna face to face always, so what is the use of being in heart? Outside, inside, they are the same, even their heart that is also sat-cid-ananda. There is no mechanical arrangement like this material body for anyone in the spiritual sky, what to speak of Krsna.
| Page Title: | Everything is spiritual (Conv and Letters) |
| Compiler: | Labangalatika, Rishab |
| Created: | 10 of Mar, 2010 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=12, Let=3 |
| No. of Quotes: | 15 |