Prabhupāda: A community is suspicious of another community. So how can you have peace and prosperity? Suspiciousness means animal, animalistic. A dog is suspicious of another dog. As soon as it finds another dog, immediately begins to bark." Row! Row! Row!" So is that human civilization? So what is the mistake of the human civilization? The mistake of the human civilization is that they have forgotten the relationship with God. So here is the scientific statement of our relationship with God. And then, according to that relationship, exactly in the same way, just like understanding your relationship, your citizenship in a state you can act nicely, similarly if we know our relationship with God, we can act very nicely and that is peaceful life. And besides that, this life, the present life is not all. We have got life after death. That is a fact. Just like we are continuously in life, in this present life, you were a child, I was a child. Everyone of us were a child. That was a life. Then we became boy, then we became youth. Now we are, I am becoming old, and generally, when this body will be useless, I will have to take another body. This is the way. Unfortunately, the people, they do not believe in the next life.
Every one of us (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Kīrtanānanda: Param Brahman.
Prabhupāda: Param Brahman. We are all Brahmans. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Every one of us, living entity, Brahman. But He is the chief Brahman. Just like you are all Americans, but your president is the chief American. Do you understand? So similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the chief Brahman. You are all Brahman, but He is the chief Brahman. Is it clear? That's all right. (Break) ...that "This boy hears very nicely. He does not go away," the first impression he gave to other godbrothers. "So I shall make him disciple." These very words he said. Actually I did not follow him in the beginning. High philosophical speaking and I was a new boy. I could not follow him, but actually I was so much glad to hear him. That's all. So that was my qualification, whatever you may say. I was simply asking, "When Guru Mahārāja will speak? When he will speak? When?" And I will sit down and go on hearing, and I will understand or not understand-others will disperse—I will not disperse. That he marked. Yes. First. There was first one instance. At that time I was not initiated.
Allen Ginsberg: Rūpa Gos...
Prabhupāda: Rūpa Gosvāmī. He was finance minister in the government of Nawab Hussain Shah in Bengal. But when Lord Caitanya started His movement, he was captivated and he resigned his service, government service and joined Him. And he wrote immense literature, Gosvāmīs. And that Desai was talking that Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, he says, rūpa-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti kabe hāma bujhaba se yugala-pīriti: conjugal love of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, one can understand when they go through the literatures presented by these Gosvāmīs. So his first book is Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. Devotion of, Nectar of Devotion. That is very authorized book. Quotation from various Vedic literature about Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa and the different stages of relationship with Kṛṣṇa, śānta-rasa, dāsya-rasa, admiration. God is Great. This is also one stage, appreciating the greatness of God. Then further development, dāsya-rasa, willing to serve. Oh! God is so great, and I must serve service because everyone of us are serving somebody. So why not serve the Supreme? Nobody is free from service because we are constitutionally the servant. Either we become the servant of the Great or māyā. Just like in any condition of our lives, we have to abide by the laws of the state. If he says that we don't abide then come to prisonhouse. You will be forced. Similarly, māyā and Kṛṣṇa. If we don't abide by Kṛṣṇa, then come to māyā. He cannot be free. That is not our position. Freedom is frustration.
Allen Ginsberg: Under all circumstances?
Prabhupāda: Yes, all, all circumstances, but it is the question of my appreciation, or my realization. That will depend on my purity. Otherwise this Kṛṣṇa sound and Kṛṣṇa, non-different. Therefore if we vibrate sound Kṛṣṇa, then I am immediately in contact with Kṛṣṇa, and if Kṛṣṇa is whole spirit, then immediately I become spiritualized. Just like if you touch electricity, immediately you're electrified. And the more you become electrified, more you become Kṛṣṇized. Kṛṣṇized. So when you are fully Kṛṣṇized, then you are in the Kṛṣṇa platform. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9), then fully Kṛṣṇized, no more comes back to this material existence. He remains with Kṛṣṇa. The impersonalists shall say merging. That is less intelligence. Merging does not mean losing individuality. Just like a green bird enters a green tree; it appears merging, but the bird has not lost his individuality. There is individuality. Similarly Kṛṣṇa says in the Fourth Chapter, no, Second Chapter that I, you, adyam(?), I and all these people who have assembled; it is not that they did not exist previously neither it is that they'll not exist. That means I, you, and all these persons, they were individual in the past. At the present we see it practically, and in future they'll remain individuals. And individually we are that, in our present existence, everyone of us individual. You have got your individual views, I have got my individual views. We agree on common platform, that is different thing, but we are individual. That is our nature. Therefore there is disagreement sometimes. So the individuality is never lost. But our proposition, bhakti-mārga, is to keep individuality and agree with you.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Self-preservation. So self-preservation... They do not know what is self-preservation. That is another ignorance. They consider this body as the self. Their self-preservation means to keep this body. And that is also not possible. If you do not follow regulative principles, it is not possible to keep your body in good condition. That is also not possible. Those who do not follow the regulative principles, mostly they are diseased, some kind. We find in the medical, modern medical shop the customers are educated people. Mass of people, they are not customers in the medical shop. You'll find it. They are not so much diseased. In every gentleman's house, modern, you'll find so many bottles of medicine. But you won't find such medical bottles in any house of less educated persons. They are not so diseased. So this is one of the items. If you want to advance in spiritual life you must follow the regulative principles to rectify your mistakes in the past life and this present life. Without being freed from all contamination nobody can understand God. That is not possible. Bhagavad-gītā says, yeṣāṁ anta gataṁ pāpaṁ: "One who has become completely freed from all kinds of sinful reaction," yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām, "Persons who are engaged in pious activities only," te, "such person," te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā... (BG 7.28). This life, the material life, is dvandva. Dvandva means fighting or quarreling. Every one of us has got nature for fighting with others unnecessarily. Even some people come here with a spirit of fighting with me. So this is called dvandva and moha. How this fighting spirit becomes developed? On account of illusion.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: You are all individuals. Every one of us is individual. So how you conceive of merging? Suppose, just like we are here-one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. How we can merge? You just study philosophy. We are here, eight persons. How we can merge into one? Have you got any idea how we can merge? These eight persons, how we can merge into one?
Impersonalist: To realize our selves.
Prabhupāda: Well, if suppose you have realized, now, how to merge?
Impersonalist: In realization there is that. In realization there is merging.
Prabhupāda: This realization... Now, there are five fingers-one, two, three, four, five. How they can merge into one?
Impersonalist: By realizing this.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Impersonalist: By realizing this.
Prabhupāda: No. These are five fingers-one, two, three, four, five. So these... There are different, five fingers. How they can merge into one? What is the process?
Impersonalist: The name of the process.
Upendra: The name of the process?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Name or not name, how these five fingers can become merged into one? Tell me. Just like here is thing. All the five fingers capture it; it becomes one. Although they are five-one, two, three, four, five—they are one.
Prabhupāda: You can see by every one of us in this temple, like that. There will be, as the gopīs said, that "Since You are here, the opulences, all opulences are there." Since You are in the temple, since Kṛṣṇa is present there, all opulences will be. Just see that in the temple since Kṛṣṇa is present there, all opulences is there. If you think that this is idol worship, that is another thing. Kṛṣṇa is present here. You should believe like the gopīs, then everything (indistinct).
Devotee (1): (reading Kṛṣṇa, The Supreme Personality of Godhead, chapter "Songs By the Gopīs") "Although the lotus flowers are so beautiful, without Your glance they fade away. Similarly, without You we are also dying. Actually we are neither..."
Prabhupāda: This building, it was a Christian church. Nobody was there. It was a barren desert. And since Kṛṣṇa has come here, you see? Same business. Is it not the fact? Same religion, the same. It was a church, but because there was no Kṛṣṇa, it was a barren land. This is a fact. Nobody was coming there; therefore they sold it off: "It is useless." That's a fact. Similarly, everyone can bring Kṛṣṇa at his home by becoming a devotee. There will be opulence. There is no question of committing suicide out of frustration. So many men, so many actors, out of frustration, committing suicide. They want to die. But if they take Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa consciousness, immediately everything will be there. Not that Kṛṣṇa was present there and not present here. He is present here. The Deity is present here. And if you think otherwise, then Kṛṣṇa will be (indistinct). If you think that Kṛṣṇa is absent, then everything is lost.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: But they want to control with their bodies, with their physical attraction. They want to use that too.
Prabhupāda: That is material. It has no spiritual significance.
Devotee (2): Prabhupāda, I've heard that every one of us who are in the movement now has had some association with Lord Caitanya (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (2): Is it so?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He's associating with Lord Caitanya just now.
Devotee (2): Yes, now. But in some other life, this is what is...
Prabhupāda: In other life may not, but he is associating at the present. That's a fact.
Prabhupāda: When we speak of Kṛṣṇa, we mean God. Everyone has some vague idea of God, but no clear idea. Therefore God descends to show what He is. If we speculate on God, someone will think one thing and another person will think another. This is the result of speculation. But if God Himself comes and shows Himself as He is and speaks about Himself, that is perfect knowledge. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is spreading that message. God Himself is speaking about Himself: "I am like this; I am like this; My form is like this; My activities are like this; My address is this and that—if you like you can come back to Me. This is the situation. Everyone can come to Me." All this information is there in Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. In Bhagavad-gītā God speaks about Himself and presents Himself as He is. We have simply to take that information; then we can understand God. As soon as we understand God, we can go home immediately. It is a very simple thing. God says:
- janma karma ca me divyam
- evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ
- tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma
- naiti mām eti so 'rjuna
- (BG 4.9)
"One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna." So God is there; that's a fact. Anyone can go back to Him and live an eternal life full of bliss and knowledge simply by knowing about it. When God Himself comes, all great ācāryas, stalwart men accept Him: "Yes, He is God." If we simply understand God, we make a solution to all our problems. What is the problem? Because we are part and parcel of God, we are qualitatively equal with Him. God is eternal, and we are eternal. God is blissful, and we are blissful. God is full of knowledge; we are also full of knowledge. Unfortunately we are hampered by this material body. Therefore our problem is how to get out of this material body and come to our spiritual body. The spiritual body is there, just as our real body is present underneath our shirt and coat. I, you, and every one of us is a spiritual spark, part and parcel of God, and we are placed within a gross and subtle body.
Prabhupāda: This is the right... Another definition is God, God is all-attractive. Now, if you try to understand what is this attractiveness, just like your American country is very opulent, very attractive. If a man is very rich in the society, he is attractive. Then if a man is very strong, then he is attractive. If a man is very famous, he is attractive. If a man-man or woman—if a man is very beautiful, he is attractive. If a man is in the renounced order, he is attractive. If a man is very wise, he is attractive. These six features are attractive features. Now, these attractive features, every one of us have to some extent. Just like you are ambassador, representative of USA, so you are attractive. So this attractiveness you have got. Sometimes I have also got. Somebody comes to me, "Let me see this Swami speak," you see. So this attractiveness everyone possesses. But God means who has got all the attractiveness in full. That is God. You may be very rich, but you cannot say that "I am the richest person in the world." That is not possible. But God can say "I am the richest person in the whole creation." Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He says, "I am the proprietor of everything."
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Śyāmasundara: But they die.
Krishna Tiwari: Eventually everybody dies.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. (all speak at once)
Prabhupāda: You don't know so many points. First of all this point, let us decide, that every one of us under the laws of nature.
Krishna Tiwari: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You can save the child for the time being by (indistinct) nature, but it is under the laws of nature, it will die. That's a fact.
Krishna Tiwari: Oh, I agree.
Prabhupāda: You cannot avoid it. So everyone is under the laws the nature. Let us decide on that. Now these laws of nature, these also controlled by somebody else. As we gave the example that every individual person within a state is controlled by the laws of government or laws of king. Now it is governed by democracy. Formerly it was under the king. So king is a person. He gives the law, and under that law all citizens are controlled. This is a fact. Therefore the laws of nature is controlled by somebody, controller, and we get this information from Vedic knowledge. And practically it is so, that just by the example, law must be given by somebody. Law is not blind, or something dropped from the sky. Law is law. It is made by somebody. That is law. It is working systematically. That is law. So when there is systematic law, there is systematic law-giver, controller, supervisor, superintendent. So we are not imagining, but we'll take it from authority, Vedic information, which is accepted by a great culture, great ācāryas, great teachers. Not that I am blindly accepting, but we are in the disciplic succession in the Vedic knowledge.
Prabhupāda: That is ultimate goal. So long we do not go back to home, back to Godhead, we have to, in our material existence, we have to change from one body to another. That is going on. And there are 8,400,000 forms of bodies. The cats and dogs, they are also living entities, but they have got a different type of body. Every one of us, different type body. Even they are children, their body is different from your body. Even the (indistinct). Although their body is obtained, there are some similarities. But if you analyze very scrutinizingly there will be some difference from your body, from your daughter's body, from your boy's body. So every body, every living entity is getting a certain type of body according to his desire. According to his desire. So that desire means material enjoyment. Just like you have got certain desire to become champion in racing. Another body has got desire to become something else. Another body has got desire for something else. So we have got this freedom by the grace of God or Kṛṣṇa. Because we are children. He has given freedom. "All right, if you want this, take it." In this way our life is going on. This is called birth and death. One chapter you are finishing in one life, next chapter begins another life. Next chapter begins another life. So the problem is birth and death. But nobody wants birth and death. Nobody wants. But it is there on account of our material life. So in material life there are four problems: birth, death, old age, and disease. So long one has to accept a material body, he has to accept these miseries also. Birth is also misery. When the child remains within the womb, in a compact bag... Very precarious condition. We have forgotten, but it is very precarious condition. And for ten months, because he is unconscious at least for seven months he cannot understand. But after seven months when the child becomes conscious, it is very intolerable. He always prays, "Oh, how to get out, how to get out." Then he gets, come out, comes out. Then another life begins. That is also accompanied with so many miserable conditions from the birth. Just like, don't mind, when you drive your car, it is not a very good position. (laughter) Yes. But you are taking that risk for winning over. But the position is not very good. At any moment there can be accident. So similarly, we are trying to achieve some goal of life, every one of us—there are so many varieties of living entities—with the risk of life and death, old age and disease. But if we know what is our actual aim of life... The actual aim of life should be back to home, back to Godhead. Then this human form of life is successful. Just like your son. If he goes out independent. Now he is under father's protection, he is very happy. But if he declares his independence... Just like Śyāmasundara. He is very rich man's son. His father, I met him. His father is a big lawyer, big businessman. But he declared independence. And I know his life history, how much he had to go through so many tribulations. Similarly, we are also sons of God. We have declared independence and we are going through so many chapters of life and death in different... Now we have got... Suppose you have got now a nice Englishman's body but next body you do not know what kind of body you are going to get. That will depend on your karma and desire.
Devotee: Very nice.
Prabhupāda: Ah. When it was suggested that I purchase house, I said that "I am not going to have this tenants' trouble. That is very botheration." So Karandhara suggested that "We have got our own tenants. Why they should stay in other apartment house? If we have got our house, they will stay, and there will be no trouble." "Then it is all right." They require house. So all gṛhasthas, they have got separate apartment, living very peacefully. So anyway, every one of us should observe strictly the regulative principles and serve sincerely. Kṛṣṇa will help us.
Gargamuni: In Calcutta we're approaching all of the libraries. At least twenty-five libraries have ordered your books, complete sets.
Prabhupāda: So you see, anywhere we can approach. I sold in Bombay all libraries, my previous Bhāgavatam.
Gargamuni: About Ten or twelve books, each bill is about five hundred rupees times twenty-five. That's a lot.
Prabhupāda: No, that is a respect, if the libraries and schools, colleges, they keep our books.
Prabhupāda: So why don't you answer them, "Yes, you become a dog, but you become a dog of a good master." What is the use of becoming dog of another dog? Then what profit will be there? Is it not? We are... Actually every one of us is dog. And we are trying to satisfy so many masters. The masters are our senses. We are already dog, everyone, because everyone is servant of the senses, kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mātsarya. So everyone is dog. Now he has to remain a dog, but by becoming dog of these senses, he is not happy. Find out a good master, and become a dog. You become happy. This is our philosophy. And the best master is Kṛṣṇa. We are also trying to be dog, but not of another dog, but real master. That is our philosophy. What is the use of becoming a dog of another dog? That is not proper. Here the material world is that "I am dog, I have got a master, and the master has got another master. He has got another master, he has got another master." Nobody can say that "I am Absolute." Nobody can say. That is not possible. You must have a master. Therefore everyone is a dog. So why don't you find out the Absolute master, the biggest master? And that is God. "God is great." Capture Him, master. Then you will be happy. That is intelligence. When one comes to his senses, that "I have served so many masters. Neither the master has become happy, neither I have become happy." That is frustration. Everyone. The master is not happy. You serve any master. Ask him, "Are you satisfied?" And, "What you have done, that I will be satisfied? You have to do so many things." So he is not satisfied, and you are not satisfied. Then to become dog of this ordinary master will never give us satisfaction. Always frustration. Just become the dog of the supreme master. You will be happy. Supreme master is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Mahāprabhu. Prabhu means master. That Caitanya Mahāprabhu's name, Mahāprabhu, "the supreme master."
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: He is confused because he was a kṣatriya, soldier. A soldier's duty is to fight with the enemy. So Kṛṣṇa was advising him, "The opposite party is your enemy. You are a kṣatriya. Why you are trying to become non-violent? This is not good." Therefore he says, "Actually I am now confused. So in confusion I cannot take the right conclusion. I therefore accept You as my spiritual master. You just give me the proper lesson." This is the point. So they were friends. Still, he was confused. So in chaotic condition, in confusion status of life, we must approach the person who is in full knowledge of the things. Just like you go to a lawyer, you go to a physician; similarly, every one of us in the material world, we are confused. Therefore we must go to the spiritual master who can give us real knowledge.
Yogeśvara: (translates) Is that right? Did I translate?
Swiss Man (1): (French)
Yogeśvara: He says that... First of all he is very grateful that we are now approaching these higher spiritual questions. He says his understanding is that this living force inside all of us is the spirit of God that is in every one of us.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yogeśvara: But he says now... But there must be something more than just these words. There must be some way of experiencing that, of realizing that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is experiencing, that because the spirit soul is there in you, in me, or anywhere, therefore the body is moving. Just try to understand. And as soon as the spirit soul is out of this body, then it is useless, a lump of matter. Therefore the living force, or the spirit soul, is important. That you have to accept.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is our point, that if we understand, every one of us realize that we are all servant of God or sons of God, that everything belongs to God, so we can use our father's property for our maintenance as much as we require, not more than that, so if we think like that, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and there will be no more war, everything peaceful.
Professor Durckheim: In my work I always feel the great difficulty again and again. That is also there. It's a great difference to believe that you are the son of God and to feel it and to experience it. As long it's only a belief, it's well meaning doing. How to prepare the conditions by which disciples might feel it? That's all of my daily work.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like... It is very simple thing. Just like if I say... Suppose you have not seen your father. You are posthumous child. But you must believe that there is father. Without father there is no possibility of my existence. That is belief. And in the Christian...
Professor Durckheim: Experience it.
Prabhupāda: This is experience. The Christian people, they go to church: "O God, give us our daily... Father, give us our daily bread." So there is the supreme Father. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Yogeśvara: (reads Purport in French. Prabhupāda asks people outside room to stop talking twice during reading)
Prabhupāda: So if we accept this process and advance in devotional service, then God will talk with us. He is with us, every one of us, and He is guiding us, but He gives directly guiding to the devotee. This is practical solution. If you become devotee, God will talk with you and give you direct instruction. Any question?
Yogeśvara (translating): This lady asks when one is too old and with too many responsibilities, what can one do?
Prabhupāda: There is no responsibilities, all false, māyā. Everyone is maintained by God. It is our false conception that "I am giving protection to anybody." That is false. Just like a man is diseased and we are giving help, medical help, first-class physician, first-class medicine, still he dies. So if God desires that this man must die now, your medical help or physician's help will not act. And if God desires that this man must live, then even without your medical help and physician, he will live. Then where is your responsibility?
Woman: Are you against medical help? I mean, you want just to let Kṛṣṇa do His way and not let the doctors help at all? I mean, don't go a doctor, just rely on Kṛṣṇa to help you?
Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa will help you. It is Kṛṣṇa's help that will be counted, not your help or my help.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Paramahaṁsa: Just like Nārada Muni got that curse from Lord Brahmā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not Lord Brahmā, by Dakṣarāja, that "You cannot stay anywhere more than three minutes."
Paramahaṁsa: He is still doing that? Nārada Muni?
Prabhupāda: Yes. His business is preaching. So we have to become, every one of us, disciple of Nārada Muni. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...American people are spending, and it is going to the American people, not outside. So it is not bad idea, distribution of money. Therefore America is so opulent. Nobody's miserly. Everyone is spending. Therefore the benefit is distributed. I have got money, I am spending, so benefit is distributed.
Jayatīrtha: Now all the rich men in India have got all their money locked up.
Prabhupāda: Yes, locked up. (end)
Prabhupāda: I may tell you two things. The purpose is... That is experienced by every one of us, what is the purpose of life, what is the purpose, anything. That, everyone, we can understand very easily. The purpose is ānanda. Pleasure. That is the purpose. There is no difficulty to understand what is the purpose. The purpose is pleasure-seeking. Or purpose is pleasure. One who hasn't got the pleasure, he's seeking after it. That is the purpose. Purpose is ānanda. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). That is the Vedānta-sūtra. Everyone of us, seeking ānanda. The scientific knowledge, philosophy, or even driving the car or whatever you are doing—the purpose is ānanda. That is a common factor. Purpose is... Why I am eating palatable dishes? I can eat anything, but I am seeking that "This sort of foodstuff will please me." That is ānanda.
Prabhupāda: Just like we are sitting, ladies and gentlemen here. So every one of us, we have got different dress. The dress is superficial, but as ladies and gentlemen, human being, we are one. Similarly, each one of us can have a different dress. So these living entities, they are in different dresses only, and the dresses are calculated-8,400,000 different forms. In the water there are 900,000 different dresses. Similarly, the trees and plants, the two million different types of vegetables. Jalaja-nava-lakṣāni sthavara-lakṣa-viṁśati. There are insects. There are 1,100,000 species. Similarly birds, there are one million. And Pakṣiṇāṁ daśalakṣanam. Daśa-lakṣa means one million, one million types of bird. And three million types of beasts. And 400,000 forms of human being. In this way the living entity is passing through different dresses. And the best dress is this human form because in this dress you can understand what is God, what you are, what is your relation with God, and then you can act and go back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore if this dress, in this dress... I am living being; you are living being. So we are in this human form of dress. We have got developed consciousness. If we miss the opportunity to understand God, then again we are put into the cycle of this evolutionary process. We should not therefore misuse this form like other forms. We should utilize it properly to understand the unlimited God and our relationship with God and act accordingly. That is perfection of life.
Prabhupāda: So this verse says that "You are speaking like a learned man, Arjuna," He addressed Arjuna, "but you are not very learned man because you are considering of the body." Just like the proprietor of the car, the driver. While the car is going on nicely or car is stopped, no more working, he is disinterested that he knows very well that "I am not this car." Therefore it is said, gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. "Anyone who is actually learned, he does not consider very seriously about the body, either it is dead or alive." So basically we are, all, every one of us, we are spirit soul. The body is just like a machine. We have got it. But we are taking of the machine very much, not for ourself. Whole world is taking care of the body but not of the driver of the body, the spirit soul. Everyone is thinking, "I am this body, and because this body is born in America, I am American, and because the body is white, therefore I am white, or black." In this way everyone is identifying with the body. Nobody is identifying with the spirit soul. That is the basic disease of the human society.
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He says that he has no objection philosophically to this position, and he understands our example very well.
Prabhupāda: No, this is not... Philosophy, of course... Philosophy is the science of science. This is scientifically true that we are not this body.
Prabhupāda: They are not... They have no spiritual understanding. Anyone who says something else beyond this understanding, that every living entity is servant of God, if he says something else, he does not know what is spiritual life.
Reporter: But there seem to be a lot of groups that are saying that, but teaching a different way to...
Prabhupāda: Different way... There cannot be dif... The way is one. God is one, and we all living entities, we are dependent on God's mercy. Therefore we are servant. Everyone is servant. We say that, that God is one, and every one of us, we are all servant of God. So let us engage in our original position as servant of God. This is our teaching.
Reporter: Do you feel that... In other groups also there are sort of teachers or masters or whatever they call them. Do you feel that there can be more than...
Prabhupāda: They are wasting time simply and cheating others. That's all.
Reporter: They are wasting time.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they do not understand what is their position; therefore their teaching is simply waste of time. This is the position: that God is great, and we are all dependent on God. Who will deny this? This is the original principle. Now, in one religious system it may be taught in a little different way. In another religious system it may be... But if there is no such sense that "God is the supreme, and we are all subordinate servant..." This should be the basic idea.
Prabhupāda: Servant. God is supreme, we are all subordinate. God is maintaining us just like father maintains. So it is the duty of the son to be obedient to the father, to act according to his order. Then everything is perfect. At the present moment on account of this bodily concept of life every one of us thinking nationality and duty of nation, duty of the community, duty of the family, so many duties. But actually we, being spiritual, our only duty is to serve God. We are serving; everyone is serving. That is our constitutional position, to serve. But at the present moment we are serving māyā, illusion, and we have to be trained up to serve the Supreme Being. Then our life is perfect. (break) ...at the present moment, although there are many religious system, they have no clear conception of God, although religion means to approach God. There is no religion throughout the whole world which is not connected with the word God. So religion means to understand God. But if we have no clear conception of God, then the religion is defective. Do you admit it or not? Religion means to understand God or God's laws. That is religion. But if we do not understand what is God, then that religion is also defective. So far our position is, we are approaching directly God through His agent, and our conception of God is there in the temple worship or our working for God. But we have got no vague idea of God. We have got complete idea: Kṛṣṇa. You want to speak anything?
Prabhupāda: So He is the father of all species of life, origin. Actually every one of us, we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is not for a particular person. For everyone. Yes?
Ānanda-mārga woman: When you asked what is the true form of God, I've seen the true form of God in myself. It's the purest life, it's the life I cannot reach through my mind. And nobody has experienced in material world. I have listened to it. It is a beautiful sound, the celestial music. And you cannot reach it through material world. I've tasted it as the purest water, and it's always inside me. And you can get it in the spring water even. And it is something I cannot reach through my mind because it is beyond my mind. I can reach by surrendering myself, by being a devotee. And I have experienced the true form of God.
Prabhupāda: No, what is that form?
Ānanda-mārga woman: It's the purest light. It's the magnificent light. I have listened to it. It's the music. And I have tasted it.
Prabhupāda: No, if you have realized God, you must know what is His form. You must explain.
Ānanda-mārga woman: The energy of light does take the form of everything which exists. It is the creator of worlds.
Prabhupāda: But He has a form.
Prabhupāda: Then they must suffer. A man, diseased, and he doesn't want to take medicine, then where is the...? He must suffer. Where is the cure?
Pañcadraviḍa: They say we're the ones who are diseased.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Pañcadraviḍa: They say we are the ones who are diseased. They say, every one of us, we are diseased, not them.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The deaf man thinks all others deaf. (Laughter) That means they are not even human beings. Animals. They do not come to reason, that "Whether we are diseased, or you are diseased. Sit down. Talk." That also, they are not ready. Then? What we can do with animals?
Pañcadraviḍa: They say we are old-fashioned. They don't want to bother with us anymore.
Prabhupāda: Hm? Then why do you bother with the problems? Why do you bother with the problems of society? You bother, but you cannot make a solution. All over the world, the newspaper is full, simply throbbing.
Brahmānanda: "But in human society, even though one may be a low-grade member of the society, he can be trained up to be purified as a first-class brāhmaṇa. It only requires training. Therefore, manava-dharma means to impregnate a human being with spiritual knowledge. A human being must be educated spiritually. That means he must know that he is not this body. Kṛṣṇa teaches this idea in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā,
- dehino 'smin yathā dehe
- kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
- tathā dehāntara prāptir
- dhīras tatra na muhyati
- (BG 2.13)
This is the beginning of spiritual education, that every one of us is not this body. Unfortunately the whole world is in darkness, and therefore every human is identifying with this body and thinking wrongly, 'I am Indian,' 'I am American,' 'I am brāhmaṇa,' 'I am this,' 'I am that.' To drive away this misconception of life is actually manava-dharma. We must know that we are not this body but spirit soul, and as such, we are part and parcel of God and therefore qualitatively one with God, exactly like a small particle of gold is also gold as is the gold from the big gold mine. But quantitatively the particle of gold is not equal to the gold in the mine. This is very elaborately described in the Bhagavad-gītā, and if we accept these principles of Bhagavad-gītā as manava-dharma, then the whole world will appreciate. And this is being done by our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Point Five: Elements in our tradition relating to dharma and saṁsṛti which are useful and wholesome but which are being discarded in practice, and those which may be considered to be unsuitable in the present times. Number Five: Regarding elements in our tradition relating to dharma and saṁsṛti..."
Prabhupāda: This kind of understanding at the present time, at the present time... (Hindi) So we give reference, that "Present time, everyone is fallen." But truth is always the same, not at present time. So the real truth is that ideal man of character there must be. Because at the present moment there is no character, there is no moral education, therefore we have to adapt according to them, no. The pukka moralist, he must be moralist. It doesn't matter that "People at the present time, they do all immoral activities; therefore we have to adjust." No. Strictly one should be moralist. There is no question of present time or past time. That should be real point of view.
Prabhupāda: Because he has accepted this material body.
Mother: And this is why there's so much human suffering.
Prabhupāda: Yes, on account of accepting a material body. Therefore every one of us should try how to avoid this process of accepting a material body. That should be our only endeavor, not to make a temporary solution. That is not very good solution.
Mother: But the world will never all become Kṛṣṇa conscious, will they? There will always be different scriptures.
Prabhupāda: What different there may be?
Gaṇeśa: Different scriptures.
Śrutakīrti: She said everyone won't all become Kṛṣṇa conscious in the world.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. So if you are serious to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you hear Kṛṣṇa, what does He say. Then you do that.
Mother: But what I'm trying to say is there's more evil in the world than goodness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless there is evil, why you are in this material world? You have accepted evil. Therefore you are in this material world. And if you accept God, the good, then you are in the spiritual world. You don't accept God; you want evil. Therefore you are in the material world. Just like in the jail, prison house, who are they? They are all criminals. Similarly, every one of us who are within this material world, they are all criminals because they have disobeyed the order of God. In different status only, but they are all criminals. Because every one of them is subjected to the rules of nature: birth, death, old age, and disease. So your child is very intelligent. He has taken to this. Now you can do also the same thing, both mother and daughter.
Prabhupāda: So people, either through Christianity or through any process, they must come to the understanding platform where we can understand what is God and how to love Him. That is required. Otherwise this human civilization will be spoiled.
Jesuit: And the great truth also that God loves every one of us.
Prabhupāda: God loves. That is natural, but you do not love, I do not love. That is the difficulty. Father loves the son; that is natural. But when the son does not love father that is a very precarious condition.
Jesuit: Good. Well, thank you very much.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa, jaya.
Jesuit: Thank you. We will pray for one another.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That means asses. The asses think that "I will be recognized by my work." He takes so much labor, load, although nothing, not a grain of the load belongs to him. But he takes the load unnecessarily. So this is their business. He will not live, his son will not live, his grandson will not live, but he is making permanent business.
Amogha: But when we're living we can enjoy.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that enjoy. Pramattaḥ. They are called madmen. Pramattaḥ paśyann api na paśyati. They know it certainly, "Every one of us will die," but seeing also, they do not see. And that is madman. Pramattaḥ paśyann api na paśyati. That the animal, he is seeing that "One animal is being killed. Next time is mine," but still eating grass. He has no anxiety. This is called pramattaḥ paśyann api na paśyati. This is animal life, that even though fact is there, they will close their eyes. That's all. This is animal life.
Australian devotee 1: Śrīla Prabhupāda, even if there is a life after death, I don't know what it's going to be like, so why should I worry about it now?
Prabhupāda: Yes, if you are a man, you should be worried. Because you are not human being, next life you are going to be cat, you should be worried.
Prabhupāda: That is going on. When I meet you I say, "Yes sir." You say, "Yes sir." That is all right. That is social etiquette. But real unity is on the platform of spirit soul. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Paṇḍita, he is sama-darśina. So paṇḍitāḥ means
- vidyā-vinaya-sampanne
- brāhmaṇe gavi hastini
- śuni caiva śva-pāke ca
- paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ
- (BG 5.18)
"A very learned brāhmaṇa and a dog and an elephant, a cow, a caṇḍāla—all of them, to a paṇḍita, really learned person, sama-darśinaḥ." You see? So now how a learned scholar brāhmaṇa and a dog can be seen on equal level? But it can be seen. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). It is on the spiritual platform, that every one of us is spirit soul. We are, by different karma, we are covered with different material dress. A dog is also a soul, and a learned brāhmaṇa is also a soul. But he is covered with different body, and he is covered with different body. So one who does not see the body, he can see on the same level. But one who sees the body, he cannot see. This is the basic principle of equality. I am seeing you are Sikh, you are seeing I am Hindu, he is seeing he is Christian, he is Mohammedan, and so on, so on. And nobody is seeing that nobody is brāhmaṇa. Nobody is seeing nobody is Hindu, nobody is Christian—he is pure soul. So that vision, unless one attains, how there can be equality? There is no possibility.
Prabhupāda: But one thing is, just like you said some Christian priests?
Yogi Bhajan: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That "I realize that one, God is one." So if God is one and every one of us after God, then why there is disagreement?
Yogi Bhajan: Well, those... Everybody has limited egos, so we understand that.
Prabhupāda: No, we should... The conference should be made that if there is God and God is one, then who is that God? What is His characteristic? That should be discussed.
Yogi Bhajan: Well, that's what I say. But what we are trying to do is spend all, what we have righteously earned, provide that platform, and invite somebody. My personal feeling is even if somebody comes and tell us there that we are the worst being on the world, but by coming and opening himself up, herself, he at least acknowledges that there is a mutual existence. At this time I have walked away to every corner, here and there, everywhere. Some people are not aware totally. I was asked one day a question, "Why these Hare Kṛṣṇa people dance in the streets?"
Prabhupāda: Ecstasy.
Dr. Crossley: I think one of the things that Peter is saying, though, that I haven't really heard you address is that... He's not saying that he doesn't believe. He's saying that he has the same experiences as all the young people here, but he doesn't dress this way. He doesn't chant. He doesn't choose to call this praise to Kṛṣṇa. He chooses to call it something else. How is it essentially different? He's saying it's essentially the same.
Prabhupāda: That he can say also that he does not dress like him, that's all. Not different. Difference is that... We are all differently dressed. It is not that every one of us who is sitting down not differently dressed. But we are not talking of the dress. We are talking ourselves. When I talk with you, you talk with me, you are not concerning about my dress or I am concerning your dress; I am talking with you as gentleman, that's all. What is the impediment of the dress? Anyone can dress as he likes. But he is a gentleman; you are a gentleman. Talk like a gentleman, that's all.
Dr. Crossley: If anyone can dress as he likes, then why do you all dress alike?
Prabhupāda: Yes, we already are. Just find out anyone who is equally dressed with you. Find out anyone. You are differently dressed from me, from them. And if you criticize my dress, I criticize your dress. That's all. Then you go on criticizing dress. Where is the talk between gentlemen? That is our disease, that we are concerned with the dress, this body, not the person who has the dress. That is our disease.
Bhaktadāsa: ...photograph, we'd like to introduce the founder-ācārya spiritual master of the entire Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, who founded this movement in 1966, coming here to America from Calcutta. Now His Divine Grace has very kindly once again come to San Francisco to lead us in this holy Rathayātrā Jagannātha cart parade. And we will ask him the questions that you have written down, and he will answer those questions, like that. So the first question, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is "What is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement?"
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that every one of us is in some type of consciousness: "I am American," "I am Indian," and, "It is my property," "America is my property," "India is my property." But we say that "Everything is Kṛṣṇa's property." Kṛṣṇa is the... Kṛṣṇa, God, when we say Kṛṣṇa, we mean God. God is the original proprietor. And He is, therefore, the supreme enjoyer, and He is everyone's friend. If we understand these three things, then we become peaceful. If all the nations in the United Nations assembly accept that everything belongs to God, then their quarrel between one nation to another nation immediately stops. But present fighting is that two hundred years ago the Americans were mostly in Europe. Now they have migrated and claiming America is theirs. So we think always that "All land belongs to God." Just like this big ocean. Who has created this ocean? Man has not created. Therefore, if God has created, then God is the proprietor. Take land, water. These are the material elements. Who has created such vast sky? That is also material. So we think in that way and try to find out the answer from authoritative sources. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Sun, the sunshine, yes, it is... We call now it is day. Just hear. This is day because the sunlight is there. At night we don't say it is day. Is it not?
Indian man (3): "We" means actually...
Prabhupāda: Any of... Every one of us.
Indian man (3): When we don't see, then we say that it is not there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Yes.
Indian man (3): Sun is not... Sun, of course, is there, but light is not there.
Prabhupāda: Hear. The light... As soon as the light is there, you understand the sun is there. Is it not?
Indian man (3): Yes, sun is there.
Prabhupāda: Wherefrom the light is coming? From the sun. But you see the sun has form. So from the form the light is coming. So the light is sarva-vyāpaka
Indian man (3): If it is sarva-vyāpaka...
Prabhupāda: Let me finish. Light is sarva-vyāpaka.
Prabhupāda: That is natural. When they plunder, they are united, and when they share, there will be fight. This is psychology. When plundering others' property they will unite and take the whole thing, and then, when they come for sharing, there will be fight. This is the psychology everywhere. Therefore there are so many parties. Just like in India the... Of course, Congress Party was the predominant to fight with the Britishers. And as soon as they got independence, so many hundred thousand parties grew up: the Congress Party, the RSS party, the Hindu-mazara(?) party, the Muslim League party, this party, this party. And then they began to fight. This is the way. Senayor eva sa ucyate. All these thieves and rascal, rogues... God's property, why you should fight amongst themselves? Property belongs to somebody else. Insanity. Just like this is government park. Anyone can come in. Everyone can equally enjoy. So why not make the whole world as Kṛṣṇa's park? What is the difficulty? Actually it is the fact. Why do you claim? Now we have come. If you say, "No, this portion belongs to us," and another, "This portion belongs to us," then there will be fight. And if we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, every one of us, that if they see Kṛṣṇa's property, so let us enjoy. What is the cause of fighting? The hotels are the centers for all kinds of sinful activity. Huh? Illicit sex, drinking, gambling and meat-eating. No discrimination.
Dr. Patel: Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate.
Prabhupāda: Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu means that every one of us, we are servant of God. That is ekatvam. Ekatvam anupaśyati. Anu means always. Anu means following the authority. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) (Hindi) It is not that something, matter, becomes brahma-bhūtaḥ. No. He is Brahman.
Dr. Patel: He realizes that he is Brahman.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all.
Dr. Patel: He was not realizing it then.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: He was realizing he was body.
Prabhupāda: So long he thinks himself as the body, he is jīva-bhutaḥ.
Dr. Patel: You said very well yesterday.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Jīva-bhūtaḥ. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). They are thinking, "Indian, American, brāhmaṇa, śūdra, man, dog, cat, tree." This is jīva-bhutaḥ. And when he understands that "I am not these things, I am Brahman," that is brahma... Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu begins from this brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. His teaching is completely on the spiritual platform. Therefore people misunderstand us. Because we are speaking from the spiritual platform everything, they cannot understand. It requires practice. Abhyāsa-yoga-yuktena cetasā nānya-gāminā (BG 8.8). Hm? What is that?
Prabhupāda: Therefore we are constructing temples. At least you will think, "We are constructing Kṛṣṇa's temple." Because you are habituated to work, work for Kṛṣṇa. Go to sell books. Print books. Type for Kṛṣṇa. This is also the same thing. Because you are accustomed to all these things, so nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandha. When it is connected with Kṛṣṇa it is as good as chanting. Therefore we are so much eager. Otherwise there is no need of temple; we can chant anywhere. But that stage is not so easy, like Haridāsa Ṭhākura we can sit down and chant anywhere. That is not possible. Then you'll sleep. Therefore these things are required. Everyone, we are working for this temple. Every one of us, we know that "This temple not for my sense gratification: This is for Kṛṣṇa." So that is important. The police commissioner is thinking, "It is nuisance." Huh? Police commissioner is thinking it is nuisance. But we are not thinking it is nuisance. We are not so fool. The politicians, the police commissioner, they'll think of, "He is my enemy; he is my friend." That is their occupation. They'll never think of Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: He has got no means to further his technology. He must have some means to further his own technology in the modern times, sir. It is very difficult to further your technology without proper means, instruments.
Prabhupāda: On the principle it is dog's business. Unless you get a master, you are useless. So that is dog's business. Just like these dogs here on the beach. Because they have no master, they are forlorn, only barking and going here, there. Sanatha jivitaḥ. So we are, every one of us, we are now dogs of the material nature, or just like street dogs. So therefore... Hare Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we should take shelter of the big master, Kṛṣṇa. Then it will be all right. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...eva caran nirantaram. This is Yamunacārya's prayer. Bhavantam eva caran nirantaram. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Bhavantam eva caran nirantaraṁ praśānta-nihśeṣa-gato... Prasanta-nihsesa-gato-manantaram. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...all right? No. Not yet. You are feeling all right? No.
Ambarisa: Yes, feeling all right. Yes. (break)
Indian man (1): Coconut tree along this side. Prabhupāda asking.
Ambarisa: (break) ...warm weather in Florida.
Prabhupāda: Huh? In Honolulu. That means it depends on weather also, not only seaside.
Prabhupāda: Healthy, he's quite healthy. (Hindi conversation with other man) We repeat simply Kṛṣṇa's statement. That is our... Our mission is "Kṛṣṇa's standard"—yare dekha tare kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Don't manufacture, rascaldom. Simply repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said. And it is simple. And as soon as you try to manufacture, it becomes difficult. How Caitanya Mahāprabhu has made things so easy.
- amara ajnaya guru haya tare ei deśa
yare dekha, tare kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa
That's all. How simple it is. You, every one of us, we take this missionary activities of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we see immediately the face of the country will change. Every gentleman, every sane man, may speak to his family, to his community, to his nation, to his friend, what Kṛṣṇa has said. Then see the result. But they're all manufacturing, concocting. Becoming big scholars. The more you deviate from Kṛṣṇa's instructions, you become a scholar.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No index. First chapter?
Prabhupāda: No, how you'll find it? Give me. Unless you have an index, list.... The purport of the verse is that even Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu—He is God himself, Kṛṣṇa Himself—He felt, alone, unable to do this task. He felt. So this is the position. You are cooperating; therefore I am getting the credit. Otherwise alone what could I do? Ekākī āmāra nāhi pāya bolo. Caitanya Mahāprabhu Himself wanted our cooperation. He is God, Kṛṣṇa. And therefore cooperation is very important thing. Nobody should think that "I have got so great ability. I can do." No. It is simply by cooperation we can do very big thing. "United we stand; divided we fall." This is our.... So be strong in pushing on Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and Kṛṣṇa will help. He is the strongest. Still, we must be combined together. Saṅkīrtana. Saṅkīrtana means many men combined together chanting. That is saṅkīrtana. Otherwise kīrtana. Saṅkīrtana. Bahubhir militvā kīrtayeti saṅkīrtana.(?) Bahu. Bahu means many, many combined together. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, combined together. All nations, all persons they should combine together. There is hope in our society, combination. There are Hindus; there are Muslims; there are Christians; there are black, white. Combine them. That looks very beautiful, just like combination of many flowers. There is black flower also. It looks nice, very nice. Each and every flower take alone; it is not beautiful, but when they are combined together, it looks very beautiful. It is attractive. And that is wanted. Because from the spiritual platform we are all working. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Spiritual platform, every one of us, we are servant of Kṛṣṇa. So where is the competition between one servant with another? There is.... Even there is competition, the center is Kṛṣṇa—"Who can serve more?" Therefore that competition is very welcome, because there is no personal interest. Everyone is trying how to serve Kṛṣṇa more. That is wanted.
Dr. Patel: "The man who has got the buddhi is a strong man."
Prabhupāda: Yes. No. Paśya siṁho madonmataḥ śaśaḥ kena nipatitaḥ.(?) This is Hitopadeśa story. You know this?
Dr. Patel: No, I don't know this.
Prabhupāda: There was a lion in the forest, and he was disturbing all the animals. So there was a peace conference: "Sir, you don't disturb every one of us. We shall come."
Dr. Patel: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Eka eka.... (Hindi) "We shall come automatically." So one day it was the turn of a rabbit. So he was a little late, so the lion, "Why you are late? My time is over." "Yes sir, another lion in the way, he wanted to eat me. So I said, 'No, you cannot eat me. I will be eaten by such and such Mr. Lion.' " So he became very..., "Who is that?" "Yes, come on. I will show you." So he got him near a well, and he said that "Here is the lion." So immediately, (growls) "Aww!" (laughter) And there was sound, "Aww!" Then he saw the photo, I mean, the reflection, and immediately jumped over.
Prabhupāda: That is the soul, or consciousness. The same thing, the pilot. The pilot may be a small man, and the airship may be very gigantic. You can make still more. But the pilot is the same. So the body may be elephant or a small ant, but the pilot is the same. That is real understanding.
Mike Barron: Just getting off that, can I ask why you've come to Australia again?
Prabhupāda: I have already explained that, that this is my mission, to educate people to understand himself. They are under this misconception that "Every one of us, we are this body." That is misconception. You must know who is within the body. That is real education.
Mike Barron: And how long.... You'll continue this until...
Prabhupāda: Well...
Mike Barron: ...until you die.
Prabhupāda: The knowledge is already there in the Vedic literature, but there was no discussion, at least in the Western countries. So I am trying to.... We have got so many books, eighty-four books, writing on this science. (aside:) Show him our books. They are being accepted by high learned circle. (break) ...written not jokingly. It is a great science.
Prabhupāda: Don't misunderstand. It is.... Religion, it means a kind of faith. Just like you are Christian, I am Hindu. So you have faith in Christian religion, I have faith in Hin.... That is another thing. But this is.... We understand religion in a different way according to English dictionary. But real religion means the law given by God. This is the shortcut definition of religion. And if you do not know what is God, and if you do not know what is His law, then what is the meaning of religion? There is no meaning of religion. If blindly, if I have some faith in some dogmas and ritualistic ceremonies, that is not religion. Religion means the science by which you can understand God and the law of God. That is religion. It is not the kind of faith. Just like state laws. You may have faith or no faith. The state law is law; you have to obey it. Just like I have come in America. In our country, the street law is "Keep to the left." So I have come to America, you say "Keep to the right." If I say, "No, I have no faith in this 'Keep to the right.' " No, I must obey. That is law. Similarly, religion means you may have faith or no faith, but you must obey. It is a must. It is not optional. That is religion. That, I explained it many times that (indistinct) means characteristic. Just like everyone of us, we are servant. So, the living entity is servant. He may have faith or no faith, he must be a servant. And if you don't become servant of God, then you become servant of dog. That is your advancement of civilization. When there is no service for God, just like here we have got service for God, there is no question of serving dog. But when we forget service of God, then automatically we become service of dog. But service.... I am servant, that's a fact. And voluntarily keep a dog and serve him. They have no master, then I keep a master, dog, cat. You call it by the name, pet. What is a pet? I do service, that's all. So this is our advancement of civilization. We have refused to serve God, and you voluntarily accept to serve dog. Now in India, they are also learning. (chuckles) And formerly, dog keeping, dog there was in the neighborhood. But they were not allowed to enter the room or house. Now, they are keeping dogs just like the Western people keep. They are making dog show and so on, so on.
Prabhupāda: I am asking, you have studied something about our philosophy?
George Gullen: A little. Not very much. I'm not as knowledgeable as I should be, I'm certain.
Prabhupāda: It is not a sectarian movement. (to someone else:) Why you stop? Yes. (to Gullen:) It is essential knowledge for the whole human society. There are two things, matter and spirit. We can understand, every one of us, we are combination of two things, matter and spirit. The matter is the body, and the spirit is the moving force.
George Gullen: Umhm, I hear what you're saying, yes.
Prabhupāda: But the modern civilization, throughout the whole world, they are very serious about the matter, but they are completely in ignorance about the spirit. What is your opinion about these things?
George Gullen: I understand that very clearly, and I think we're caught up terribly in matters that are not of the spirit. We're terribly caught up in materialistic things.
Prabhupāda: But material, that is temporary. This body, your body, my body, anyone's body, that is temporary. It will not stay. It has taken birth at a certain date, it will endure for certain years, and then it will be finished. But the spirit, that will continue. It will accept another body. Just like we are accepting, we are giving up our body, childhood body, accepting the body of a boy, then giving up the boyhood body, accepting the body of a young man. Similarly, this body.... Just like I am an old man. This will be finished, and I will accept another body. So the spirit soul is eternal, and the body is temporary. So we are taking care of the body very much. That is also required. But what about the spirit soul? This education is lacking.
Kathy Kerr: So that means then that our society then gives certain people certain status just because of their job, that's not correct.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We must come to the correct position of our spiritual life, then it is perfection of life. Otherwise, they're ignorant. If the husband comes at home and the wife calls him by the name, "John, come here." "Oh, you are not addressing 'my lord,' " it will be ridiculous. He might be "my lord," in the court, but when he's in the family, the wife calls by the name. So our, with the change of dress we are changing our name, circumstances, thoughts, and everything. Therefore we find differentiation. American, Indian, Hindu, Muslim, black, white, this, these are all designation of the dress. And therefore we do not agree. As soon as I accept, identify myself with the dress, there will be disagreement. And as soon as we, everyone of us, we know that this is superficial, this is dress, I am spirit soul, then there will be agreement. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, find out this verse. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu (BG 18.54). So without this understanding they have opened United Nations, keeping them cats and dogs. And they are simply barking, that's all. This is going on. For the last forty years simply they are barking. What achievement is there? In your country, who is the president gave the black man same liberty?
Jayādvaita: Lincoln.
Prabhupāda: Lincoln. Equal right, but actually, there is some tension, black and white. Because they are not on the spiritual platform.
Prabhupāda: So he has said already that "I do not find any other means to pacify me, and You are the only..." The purport is that Arjuna is accepting Kṛṣṇa as guru to instruct him how to get relief from the perplexed position. So in this sense the real guru is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is guru. Not only for Arjuna, for everyone. So if we take instruction from Kṛṣṇa and abide by that order, instruction, then our life is successful. That is our mission. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means accept Kṛṣṇa as guru. We don't say... Don't divert your attention. We don't say that "I am Kṛṣṇa." We never say that. We simply ask people that "You abide by the order of Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), and we say that "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Give up all other ideas of so-called dharma or religiosity." The same thing. But we don't say that you or me, "I am the authority." No, we don't say that. We say, "Kṛṣṇa is the authority, and you try to understand Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Therefore the question is guru. So here, from the behavior of Arjuna, we see that guru is necessary. Arjuna was talking with Kṛṣṇa as friend, but Arjuna saw that "This is, there is no good talking like this. We can continue talking.... Because we are equal status. Kṛṣṇa is my friend. I am also His friend. So He's answering, I am giving something. If this talking will go on, there will be no fruit." Therefore he said, "Now, Kṛṣṇa, I am becoming Your disciple." Disciple means there is no argument. Whatever the guru will say, you have to accept. That is disciple. That is final. There is no argument. So Arjuna put him into that position that "I cease to talk with You on equal level of friends. Now I accept You as guru." Therefore the guru is necessary, undoubtedly, because every one of us in perplexed position. But who is guru? Guru means Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's representative. And all others are bogus. If one does not say on the standard of Kṛṣṇa, then he's not guru. He's a bogus.
Rādhāvallabha: They get angry if we tell them that.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is, means they are rascal. When there is argument between you and me, if one becomes angry, that means he's a rascal. That is the proof. He cannot reply anymore. He has become angry. That is his defeat. Upadeśo hi mūrkhāṇāṁ prakopāya na śāntaye. Mūrkha, a rascal is given good instruction, he'll be angry. So that is the proof that he's rascal. That is the proof. The example is given, payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. Just like if you give milk, very nourishing food, to a human being, he'll get strength, but if you give to a snake, it will increase poison. So that is the proof that here is a snake. So payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. If you give milk to a human child he'll grow healthy, and the same milk you give to a serpent child, it will grow poison. One day he'll: "Ohnn!" He'll ready to bite you. You have given milk, it has increased poison, and it will show his fangs, hood. That is asura. So therefore they become snakes, scorpion, so low-grade life. Snake life is so degraded that at once you see a snake, immediately every one of us will be ready to kill it. Everyone, without any mercy. Nobody will say, "No, no, let this go." So he is put into that life that he cannot come in the light. As soon as he comes in the vision of somebody, everyone is ready to kill. And nobody is sorry. Nobody is sorry. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that. Modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā (SB 7.9.14). Even one is saintly person, he'll be satisfied if a snake is killed. Saintly person doesn't want that anyone should be killed, but if a snake is killed, he's happy: "Oh, you have done right." Modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā. So Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "My father is killed; nobody is unhappy. (laughter) Nobody is unhappy. But he was just like a snake and scorpion. Now You be satisfied. There is no cause of becoming angry. Everyone is satisfied." That was Prahlāda Mahārāja's prayer. Find out this verse. Where is Seventh Canto?
Prabhupāda: We think, according to our philosophy, everything is the property of the Supreme Lord, and we are all sons. So everyone has the right to use the property of the father. So that consciousness should be spread. This barrier of nationalism is against Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why there should be? Actually everything belongs to God. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). The sky, the land, the water, they are all creation of God, God's property. But we should not take more than what is allotted to us. That is real life. Otherwise, I have practically studied that there is enough land. Just like in your country, in America, there is enough land, not utilized. They can be properly utilized, and if food grains are produced, there is no question of scarcity of food all over the world. Not only in America—in Africa, in Australia. (break) If we get nourishing food, every one of us, so there is no economic problem.
Prabhupāda:
- kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi
- sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata
- kṣetra-kṣetrajñayor jñānaṁ
- yat taj jñānaṁ mataṁ mama
Kṛṣṇa has spoken about the kṣetrajña. Kṣetrajña means the knower of the body, as He has already explained, that "I know that this is my finger." I never say, "I finger." So this body is kṣetrajña, the field of activities, and the soul is the proprietor or worker within the body. That is called kṣetrajña. This is already explained. He tried to explain... Because there are many ladies, so he tried to explain in Hindi. So here in the next verse Kṛṣṇa says, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi: "I am also kṣetrajña. I am also one of the knower of the body." So what is the difference between the one kṣetrajña already explained, the soul, and this kṣetrajña, Kṛṣṇa? What is the difference between the two? That is explained here. Kṛṣṇa says that "I am also kṣetrajña."Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata: "But the distinction is that the individual soul is situated in that particular body, but I am situated in every body, all-pervading." Sometimes they commit mistake that ātmā and Paramātmā, they are the same, but that is not the fact. Here Kṛṣṇa explains very distinctly that "I am also ātmā, but I am Paramātmā." That is the distinction between God and ourselves. When Arjuna understood Bhagavad-gītā, he addressed Kṛṣṇa, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). Paraṁ brahma. They are anxious to realize Brahman, that I... ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi does not mean that "I am Paraṁ Brahman." "I am individual part and parcel of Brahman." Similarly, ātmā, Paramātmā; īśvara, Parameśvara. We should understand this distinction between ātmā, Paramātmā: Brahman, Para-brahman; īśvara, Parameśvara. So in the Vedic literature it is said, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Īśvara. Īśvara means controller. Every one of us, we are controller, either I control over my family or in my office or in my country. In this way everyone is a controller. I may be a controller. Not may be. In my limited jurisdiction I am also controller.
Prabhupāda: Kṣetra-jñākhya tathā para. Avidyā karma saṅgaḥ anya tṛtiya śaktir iśyate. Viṣṇu-śakti, Viṣṇu, the supreme controller, all-pervading Godhead, Viṣṇu, He and His potency, viṣṇu-śakti parā proktaḥ, both of them are transcendental. (someone translates into French throughout) So the Viṣṇu-śakti potency is one. Another reflection of the Viṣṇu-śakti is karma-saṅga anya, that is, you have to work. That is called tṛtiya, the third, karma-saṅga, where you have to work. The idea is that original Viṣṇu potency, you haven't got to work. Everything is supplied automatically. And the avidyā karma-saṅga anya, and the other reflection or perverted reflection, is this material world. Just like you have recited this verse, cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam (Bs. 5.29). In the spiritual world the trees are desire tree—means whatever we want, we can get—whereas in this material world, trees are not like that, they are limited potency. The cows there, unlimited potency. Surabhī means you can milk out as many times as you like, and as much as you like. So the idea is the spiritual world means there is no need of endeavoring for getting anything; everything is there automatically. And the material world, we have got experience, for everything we have to work so hard, then we can get something. So actually this material world is perverted reflection. Just like this body, without the spirit soul, it is useless; similarly, this material world, even if there is no spiritual touch, it is useless. So the more you spiritualize the whole atmosphere, the more you become sufficient and happy. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for that purpose. People cannot understand it. They think that "These people are not working, simply chanting and dancing and eating." But that is our business. (laughter) Without working, we can have everything sufficiently. So stick to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You are already advanced. That is my request. Don't deviate. You'll have never any want. That's a fact. It is not my invention, it is the statement of Kṛṣṇa. Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). Nityabhiyukta, those who are constantly engaged in Kṛṣṇa business, whatever they want, Kṛṣṇa is personally interested to supply it. So without any hesitation, stick to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, everything will be amply supplied. Whatever you need, that will be supplied, and whatever you have got already, that will be given protection. Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). Not that we shall be indolent and lazy. No. We shall utilize our energy for giving service to Kṛṣṇa. That actually we are engaged. We are not lazy. Every one of us is engaged in some sort of service for Kṛṣṇa. So that is my request, that I am now getting old, and that you stick to this principle, and you'll remain always happy. I think this is for the fourth time I have come here? So I find you very happy. Continue, and whenever I shall come, I shall see you happy. Thank you very much. (end)
Prabhupāda: Oh, give them this garland. (break) ...he begins with surrender. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So anyone who voluntarily offers obeisances, immediately he becomes fifty percent advanced. Because.... Who is talking? This material world means nobody wants to surrender. Everyone wants to become master: "I am the monarch of all I survey." Everyone is planning how to become a master. Therefore the struggle for existence. Nobody wants to become a servant. You know very well in European history, Napoleon wanted to become the master of all Europe. Hitler wanted also. Similarly, there were so many leaders, sometimes Roman leaders, sometimes Greek leaders, sometimes French leaders, sometimes German leaders, English leader. The whole European history is full of fighting, war. The basic idea is that everyone wanted to become master. That is the material disease. We are now discussing Bali Mahārāja. He also wanted to become master of the whole universe. So that is the material disease. Actually, master is one, Kṛṣṇa. There cannot be two masters. There is only one master, that is Kṛṣṇa, or God. But in the material world, because we have forgotten the real master, every one of us is trying to become master. This is material disease. Not only in one life, but life after life. The cats and dogs, they also want to be master.
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Yogeśvara: He had a question for you.
Prabhupāda: First of all, you remain here for some time. Be trained up. Because every one of us, we have followed the silly jackals. Now we have to follow Kṛṣṇa. Janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra (CC Adi 9.41). That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's advice. First of all, let your personal life be successful, then try to do good to others. The, all over the world, they have simply followed the silly jackals. Now we have to follow Kṛṣṇa. When you are trained up to follow Kṛṣṇa, then our life is successful. Then you can do something. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). We have to follow Kṛṣṇa alone. Not all these rascals, silly jackals. Then our life is successful. Kṛṣṇa can give you all guidance. In all respective necessities of life, there is everything complete. We haven't got to follow the silly jackals. So here is a nice place, you stay here and forget the silly jackals and take to Kṛṣṇa alone or His devotees. Then you can start very nicely a center anywhere. That is the duty of everyone. We should open hundreds and thousands of centers all over the world. But one who is going to open, he must be first of all trained up.
Nava-yauvana: There is no use.
Prabhupāda: Every one of us, we are attached to the body, and on account of being attached to the body the material activities are going on. These motorcars are running, karmīs are going here and there, what is the purpose? To maintain the road? Divasa śarīra-sāje. Miche nida-baśe gelo re rāti divasa śarīra-sāje. The body is given rest at night to revive, and daytime the activities for the matter of maintaining the body. But despite my all endeavor to maintain this body, it will not stay. It will give up my company and I'll have to accept another. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So Bali Mahārāja says "What is the use of such endeavor?" Therefore big, big saintly persons, they do not care for the body. Lie down anywhere. But they are very serious about spiritual advancement. And people in general, they are interested in maintaining the body. It is not that we should be neglectful to the body. That example is also there. Just like we require fruits and flowers. So if we neglect the tree, there will be no fruits and flower. If we cut the tree, it will dry up and there will be no fruits and flowers. The fruits and flowers, this human body, the fruits and flowers mean self-realization. Bali Mahārāja analyzes the family. He says family means rogues and thieves. Whatever you want, they'll take away. The pickpocket takes from your pocket and he becomes a criminal, and when the wife takes thousand dollars from your pocket, you do not consider her to be criminal. You laugh, "Oh, you have taken the money?" "Yes, I've taken." The business is a pickpocket. But in one case we say "criminal," and one case we say "friend." The business is the same. Svajanākhya-dasyu. Actually thieves and rogues, but we have named them "relatives."
Prabhupāda: Then dvaita-vāda. Where is advaita?
Indian man: Even dvaita does not, something different from advaitam. In this particular fundamental. But even advaitam does not say that ātmā is equal to Paramātmā. He never says that. You have māyā. Māyā will be field to you and that you get rid of that māyā and you try to elevate your soul to the ātmā. And you come, go to the Paramātmā.
Prabhupāda: That is the beginning of spiritual lesson. Because that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Everyone of us, we are identifying with this body. Just like if somebody asks what you are, "I am Mr. such and such, I am Indian, I am this, I am that." He is giving identification of the body. But that he is not. He's not this body. That is self-realization. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13)—two things—deha, this body, and asmin dehe, there is dehinaḥ, the owner of the body. That is the beginning of spiritual education. Because generally almost 99.9% people, they are thinking that I am this body.
Indian man: Well, that is true, that is...
Prabhupāda: So that is another thing.
Indian man: That attachment to the...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That attachment or no attachment, he is different from the body. That is the first lesson of spiritual education, that one has to understand that he is not the body. That is Brahman realization.
Indian man (5): Mūḍha, you explained last night.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is going on. That's it, that we should take advantage of this human form of life, and we must know what is our position, why we are in this material world. I am this body or so... So many things. This is called brahma-jijñāsā. But nobody is interested. That is the effect of bad education. And especially in the Western countries, they do not believe in the next birth. They do not believe, although it is very clearly pointed out by Kṛṣṇa, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā: (BG 2.13) "The body is changing from baby body, is coming, becoming a boy, a boy is becoming a young man, young man is becoming middle-aged man, and the middle-aged man is becoming old man." The body is changing every moment, and still, they do not believe. Every one of us, we know that we had a childhood body, a boy's body. Where is that body? That body is gone. I am existing, but the body is not existing. Therefore I have changed body. This simple word, they do not understand. Therefore they are called mūḍha. Kṛṣṇa is pointing out, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Similarly, there is after this, after so-called death, the soul changes to another body, and He still further clearly says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: (BG 2.20) "After the destruction of this body, the person is not killed. He's not dead." Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. These things are there, but nobody understands. And they're very good scholar, big, big student of Bhagavad-gītā. But these things they do not understand. And they're writing very, very big, big comments.
Prabhupāda: So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is purely a spiritual movement. Therefore sometimes it is little difficult to understand the activities of this movement. There are two things, material and spiritual. That is the beginning of instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa begins with this statement: that this body is not the person, the soul is the person. Asmin dehe. Within this body there is the soul. And he has explained in different ways that this body is antavanta ime dehā (BG 2.18). This body is perishable, but the soul is not perishable. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), that even after the destruction of the body the soul is not destroyed. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. The soul never takes birth, never dies. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). There are so many things explained, what is the soul. So without the soul, this body is useless. That everyone can understand. Therefore the importance should be given to the soul, not to the body. Kṛṣṇa says that anyone who is paṇḍita, in knowledge, he does not give any importance to the body, either living or dead. So the India's particular culture is how to elevate the soul to the highest platform of perfection. That is India's culture. The whole Vedic literature is meant for that, and Bhagavad-gītā is the essence of all Vedic literature. And the purpose is that soul is now entrapped within this material world, and the human life is the opportunity for getting oneself out of this entrapment of material existence. So if we do not take care of this important business of human life—as it is explained in the Vedānta-sūtra-athāto brahma jijñāsā. This life is meant for understanding about the Brahman or the spirit soul. And there are two kinds of spirit soul. One is called the Supersoul, and the other is called the individual soul. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṣetra-kṣetrajñā. This chapter. Kṣetra means this body and kṣetrajñā means one who knows about the body. You know about your body. Not fully, but at least partially, every one of us we know, "This is my body. I am.... I got this body from such father and mother. I belong.... This body belongs to such and such country." And so on. This is one knowledge. So another soul is there.
Prabhupāda: There will be proper rainfall. And if there is proper rainfall, then you get sufficient food grains, not only food grains, other things also. Sarva-dughā mahī, sarva-kāma-dughā mahī. From the earth you can get all the necessities of life. Actually you are getting food grains, minerals, trees, fruits, flowers, everything from the earth. Sarva-dughā, sarva-kāma-dughā mahī. This mahī, when it is soaked with proper rains, it becomes fertile. Therefore we have to depend on the rainfall. There is one verse in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). Parjanya means rainfall. Rainfall means it is supplying all the necessities of life. And this rainfall will be easy when there is yajña. And nobody is performing yajña; therefore nowadays rainfall is scarcity. In Europe recently I have seen, there is no rainfall, whole Europe. It is on the verge of drying everything. So this punishment will come in this Kali-yuga. There will be no rainfall, and there will be not sufficient food supply, and the government will simply levy taxes on different pleas and people will be so much embarrassed that they will give up their hearth and home and flee away to the forest. It is stated. So therefore you must perform yajña. And that is very easy in this age. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32). You cannot perform the former yajñas by sacrifice tons of ghee and grains because you have no sufficient food grains even. But still, if you chant this saṅkīrtana, that is yajña. Therefore you must take to saṅkīrtana-yajña. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ. It is very easy. (break) ...the duty of human being, prāṇaiḥ, with life, arthaiḥ, with money, dhiyā, with intelligence, and vācā, by words. If one sacrifices his life for Kṛṣṇa's cause, then it is first-class. If he cannot sacrifice his life for Kṛṣṇa he can contribute his hard-earned money for Kṛṣṇa. If he cannot do so, if he has no money, he can give some intelligence. If he is not intelligent, then he can give some words. Just like we are doing preaching. We are preaching, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). So without any jugglery of words we present to the people that "Here is Bhagavān," kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. So giving some words, sacrificing some words... Not that every one of us is very highly educated or very rich. Still, if we carry the words of Kṛṣṇa... As Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7), so we have to carry these words, that "The Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa." Where is the difficulty? It is authorized. Kṛṣṇa says and we simply carry the words. So where is difficulty? So simply by carrying these words that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. He can go. (Hindi)
Boy: Is the sun-god an incarnation of Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Everyone is incarnation. You are also. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). You have not read Bhagavad-gītā? Any living entity is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Just like this child is the part and parcel of his father, you are part and parcel of your father. Similarly, every one of us, we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa.
Boy: Is the sun-god an avatāra?
Prabhupāda: Any god or dog, anyone is part and parcel. This is our land? No.
Mahāṁśa: Yes. It goes all... That's a village. That... Those trees there is the village.
Devotee: Those date trees are on our land?
Mahāṁśa: You see the big trees? That is the border. Yes, all the way to the village our land goes.
Prabhupāda: Man gone?
Mahāṁśa: He went that side.
Prabhupāda: What is the market price?
Mahāṁśa: Of those vegetables?
Prabhupāda: Ah.
Prabhupāda: That the any person, any living entity, he is not this body. That is the answer. So then two things. Suppose you are, I am, that I am thinking of this body, and at the same time I am thinking that this finger, I say, "My finger." Nobody says, "I finger." "My finger." Even a child he will say. So "My finger, my head, my legs." So what is that "my"? That is the question. The answer is negatively that that "I" or "my" is not this body. That is different from the body. Now what is the nature of that "I"? That is explained one after another, one after another, one, one. Because he has no idea. Every one of us... I am speaking, you are speaking. Theoretically we take, accept it that I am not this body. But practically I say, "I am this body." That is wrong. That has to be explained. And that is being explained. The question is one and the answer is one. There cannot be many questions or many answers. Answer is one. That answer is, Kṛṣṇa begins, that "As the body is changing, within our experience..." dehino'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Very nice example. We are changing bodies. When you were born, there was no beard. Clean shaved or no hair.
Prabhupāda: That is explained, I am... That is... Kṛṣṇa says that the all these living entities... (break) ...that you are the same as God. Mamaivāṁśa. Aṁśa, part and parcel of the... So
- mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke
- jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ
- manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi
- prakṛti-sthāni karṣati
- (BG 15.7)
"You, you are as good as I am, or you are as good as God. But because you haven't got, developed your mind materially, therefore you are struggling hard with your mind and senses. The answer is there. First of all you understand that you are not this body, but every one of us, we are struggling hard in this material world because I have taken this body as I am, and the mind is there.
Prabhupāda: That is asurika. To increase artificially necessities of life. And become entangled.
- na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ
- durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ
- andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās
- te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ
- (SB 7.5.31)
These rascals, they do not know what is the aim of life. The aim of life is to go back home, back to Godhead. That they do not know. They are trying to adjust things by material arrangement. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā. This hope will never be fulfilled. Durāśayā. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. This material energy is the external energy of the Lord. So they are enamored by the external energy; they have no information of the internal energy. Svarūpa-śakti. Just like every one of us in the conditioned state, we are busy with this body, the external energy. And the internal energy, the soul, is there. We have no information. Although we practically daily see that as soon as the internal energy is off, it is nothing but as good as the stone. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are giving importance to the external energy. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). And they are being encouraged by the so-called leaders to give stress on this external energy. Although they are tightly tied with the laws of nature. The laws of nature will finish this body. But still they are attached to this body. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. I had been to that Gandhi's place.
Prabhupāda: Another place, Vaiṣṇava says, either he is businessman, or doctor, anyone, they are all madmen.
- piśācī pāile yena mati-cchana haya
- māyā-grasta jīvera haya se bhāva udaya
(Hindi) Ghostly haunted. And he talks all nonsense. Similarly, anyone who is in the material condition, he is a ghost-haunted man. So he can talk anything, all nonsense. Piśācī pāile yena... This is applicable to everyone. Anyone who has got this material body, he's ghostly-haunted. Therefore we are explaining that verse, that first treatment is how to get out of the clutches of this ghost which has attacked everyone. So ghostly haunted man, he's himself a victim of the ghost. How he can treat other men? He's also haunted by the ghost. This is the position. You may, one may say, "I am haunted by better ghost." That may be, but every one of us ghostly haunted. And śāstra says this is treatment. Tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā, yasmād sattvaṁ śuddhyed (SB 5.5.1). Sattva, our existence, is polluted. (break) ...the skin and bone. The skin and bone will continue so long I am in the material condition of life. Either bird's skin... Just like who was talking of evolution, who was? This disease of skin and bone will continue. Because the spirit soul is not the bone and skin. The Darwin's theory, he is putting that the bone is changing. The bone is not changing. You get different bones in different life. I am changing my position. I am going from one apartment to another apartment. The apartment not changing. I am changing apartment. That is the difference between Darwin's theory and our theory. They are thinking the apartment is becoming another apartment. No. The apartments are already there. I am entering different apartments as I can pay for it. That is karma. According to my karma, I am sometimes residing in one apartment, in another apartment. This is going on.
Prabhupāda: Everyone may be a fool, but if he continues to remain a fool, that is very bad. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: A fool is a fool always. He cannot change his...
Prabhupāda: More or less everyone of us, we are fool, mūḍha. Kṛṣṇa has stated mūḍha, mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). He has chastised like anything. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān (BG 16.19). So anyone who's not taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is within these categories: duṣkṛtina, narādhama, mūḍha, māyayāpahṛta-jñāna, āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritaḥ. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is Indian movement, but na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. They are not taking seriously. That is the position. It is our movement. Kṛṣṇa came in India and because India is so glorified place, puṇya-bhūmi, even the demigods they desire. Not India, this planet, Bhāratavarṣa. Formerly, the whole Bhāratavarṣa means whole planet. Anyway, for the time it is now minimized. So it is not ordinary land. So our men, they are not interested in such great movement. How much regrettable it is. And who are they? Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ duṣkṛtino narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). If you speak the truth, then you take the quotation of Kṛṣṇa. Now every Indian should take part in this great movement. Every Indian. That is the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Dr. Patel: Even the state says "Religion is your private..."
Prabhupāda: Whatever... The rascal says. A rascal says. It is not private. No private-public. It is laws of nature. You have to abide by that. The nature's law is "Now winter. You have to cover your body." There is no second law. So that is wanting, that we are... The present defect is that every one of us under the laws of God or nature, whatever you say. And still, we are declaring independence. This is the defect. Prakrti-stho 'pi.
- puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho 'hi
- bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān
- kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya
- sad-asad janma-yoniṣu
- (BG 13.22)
Sad-asad-janma. Why? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. He's associating with the different modes of material of nature, infecting, and that is the cause one is born as demigod, one is born as dog, one is born as tree, one is born as human being. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Therefore we should associate with sat-saṅga. Sat-saṅga chāḍi kāinu, asate vilāsa, te karaṇe lāgi more, karma bandha phāṇsa. Because we have given up sat-saṅga-oṁ tat sat-Kṛṣṇa's saṅga, we are entangled in this asat-saṅga. And that is the cause of my karma-bandha phāṇsa. Sat-saṅga chāḍi kāinu, asate vilāsa: "I wanted to enjoy with asat." Asato mā sad gamaya. Therefore I'm entangled.
Guest (1): So that is the meaning of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is note of address: "O Kṛṣṇa and O Kṛṣṇa's energy, please engage me in Your service." Because we are in service, every one of us. What you are doing?
Guest (1): Sir, I am a government servant.
Prabhupāda: So you are servant. And any one of you...
Guest (2): I am also a servant.
Prabhupāda: So everyone in servant.
Guest (1): No, sir, servant is always serving in the government...
Prabhupāda: So they are servant. So every one of us is a servant. But this service has not pleased us. Therefore we are seeking other service, the service of the Supreme.
Guest (1): Sir, what is the way to serve the Supreme?
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Just like a servant, when he is not pleased, somehow or other, with the master, he seeks another service. Is it not? Similarly, the service in this material world will never please us, neither the master. Take for example Gandhi. He gave so much service to his country, to his countrymen, but what was the result? He was shot dead. So who can please more than Gandhi? So we should take lesson from this, that if you are engaged in rendering service to the material world, neither you'll be happy nor the master will be happy. It is simply waste of time.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Well, we said, "We are working on it." We were not giving a definite..., 'cause we need some proof to satisfy them. So we are...
Prabhupāda: Anyway, you are meeting big, big scientists.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But we are saying that our senses are very incomplete, very limited. So how can we...
Prabhupāda: That is our basic principle of knowledge, that every one of us is defective. So you cannot give us complete knowledge. It is not possible. We must receive knowledge from the perfect without defects.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we were bringing that and answering, not answering directly, but saying that whatever we see, whatever we find by experimental science, by these instruments, we see something, but how do we know that... Our matter of receiving knowledge is by itself defective.
Prabhupāda: Defective, yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because actually there are many defects in science.
Prabhupāda: So they do not challenge you that "How your knowledge is perfect?" They do not challenge that?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.
Prabhupāda: No, then they can challenge like that, that "If our knowledge is imperfect, how your knowledge is perfect?" If they challenge like that, what you will answer? (break) ...child is imperfect, but when the child says, "This is spectacle," and if we ask the child, "How do you know?" "Father told me," then it is perfect. He received the knowledge from the father, that "This is spectacle," so although he is imperfect child, he speaks perfect. That is our method. That statement is not imperfect. We cannot be perfect. That's not possible. But if we receive knowledge from the perfect, then our knowledge is perfect. So all right.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They're actually much better than any of the professional men.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We played caitanya-līlā in our younger days. So we brought one very famous man, Amritlal Bose. He is one of the three chief men who started theatrical performances in Bengal. Amritlal Bose, Girish Candra Ghosh, and one some Pathan. This Amritlal Bose was a big author also, for writing comic books. And very expert lecturer. So somehow or other, we contacted him, and we used to call him, (Bengali:) dādā-mahāśaya. Dādā-mahāśaya means grandfather. He was of our grandfather's age. In the evening he was drinking. Very luxurious. So when he came, he said, "Yes, I will give you direction. You are all aristocratic family. But you must know that what is the difference between this professional and this aristocratic family." So he explained that "Caitanya-līlā, in the public theater, anyone can pay eight annas." That eight annas was third-class ticket. Eight annas, one rupee, two rupees and five rupees. "So they can see Caitanya-līlā. Then where is the difference between your playing and their playing?" So he explained that "There must be some difference, that the public, after seeing your playing, they should appreciate so much that they will agree they will never see. So I want to train you like that. Are you prepared?" His first condition. So we were boys at the time... "Yes, sir. Yes. Whatever you say." Then he said, "Then I take charge of training you." So his next condition was that "You cannot play unless I say it is all right." So we practiced for more than one year. Still, he did not say that "You are all right." He did not say. By force, practically, that "Now we shall play, sir." "All right, you can play, but it is not to my perfectional ideas." So I had the part of Advaita Ācārya. So on the stage, when we saw, all the public, they are crying, the audience. Regularly crying. We could not understand how they are crying, because we are dry; we have learned how to play, that's all. But he has trained in such a way that we could appreciate everyone was crying by seeing Caitanya, everyone was hanker to play, act. So it was due to training. He trained in such a way that we could not understand how we are playing, but the audience, they appreciated so much. Every one of them was crying. And another effect was... Because sometimes there were need of proxy. Some player has not come, and the rehearsal is going on. So the result was that each and every one of us learned the play of others. There was no scarcity of duplicate. So that was the first and last of playing in dramatic drama in my life. Caitanya-līlā. We had own club, Indian, Indian, like that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe a possible name for this could be "Kṛṣṇa: Messiaḥ of the Harijanas." 'Cause he published, "Who is..." They need a messiaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Every one of us messiaḥ. Anyone Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's the messiaḥ. Every one. Why one? All of us. Gaurāṅgera bhakta-gaṇe, jane jane śakti dhari, brahmāṇḍa tari saksi(?): "The devotee of Lord Caitanya, every one has so immense power that every one, they can deliver the whole universe." Gaurāṅgera bhakta-jane, jane jane śakti..., brahmāṇḍa tari... That is Gaurāṅga's men.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Only you are that powerful, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We're like...
Prabhupāda: Why you are not? You are my disciples.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're like the bugs.
Prabhupāda: "Like father, like son." You should be. Gaurāṅgera bhakta..., jane. Everyone. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). He asked everyone, "Just become guru." Follow His instruction. You become guru. Āmāra ājñāya. Don't manufacture ideas. Āmāra ājñāya. "What I say, you do. You become a guru." Where is the difficulty? "And what is Your ājñā?" Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Bas. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. You simply repeat. That's all. You become guru. To become a guru is not difficult job. Follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu and speak what Kṛṣṇa has said. Bas. You become guru.
Prabhupāda: Just like every one of us. I know, you know, that "This is my body. This is my finger. This is my leg." So the body is called kṣetra. We have been allotted a kṣetra. Just like the government distributes the land to a certain person, that "This is your land. You till it and grow your food," thirty bighās or something like that. This body is like that. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He is there within the body, and He is giving us this kṣetra. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). So I have got this body. You have got that body. The dog has got body. The cat has got body. So He's everywhere. So according to his karma or desire, he gets a body. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 18.61). And he works. Therefore the body is the kṣetra, the field, and the individual soul is the worker. So he is working and getting the fruitive result, but at the same time, God is also with him. But He is everywhere. I am not everywhere. I am one individual. Do you understand? And that is the difference between God and me. I cannot say what you are now thinking now, or you cannot say what I am thinking, but God knows what you are thinking and what I am thinking, what he is thinking. That is the difference. That is explained. Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi mām. He is also within body, but that is the difference between Him and you. You are limited within your body, and He is unlimited. He is everywhere.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It will distribute India's glories. People will feel obliged to India, that "We have got this knowledge from India." Actually knowledge is here. There is no such knowledge all over the world.
- bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra
- janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra
- (CC Adi 9.41)
Paropakāra. India is meant for paropakāra. India is not meant for exploiting others. But unfortunately the knowledge is... Sarasvatī jñāna-khale yathā satī. We have got the store of knowledge, but we have kept it locked up, not distributed to the world. They are called jñāna-khala. One who has knowledge but he does not want to distribute it, that is, they are termed as jñāna-khala. So we should not be jñāna-khala. In India there is storehouse of spiritual knowledge, and every one of us should make our life successful by assimilating this knowledge and distribute all over the world. There is customer; there is appreciation. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. (Hindi) Why you should be jñāna-khala? Na sādhu manye. Jñāna should be distributed. The modern scientists also, they have... If they have discovered something new, they go and distribute for the benefit of the whole human society. Unfortunately we are distorting the knowledge in Bhagavad-gītā, interpreting in a different way according to my whims, and spoiling my life and others'. This process should be stopped. Present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. You'll be benefited; others... Don't distort. That is our duty.
Prabhupāda: You give me Complan.
Bhakti-caru: And little chānā, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Like yesterday? Okay.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You'll take chānā after bathing, washing face, and...? That's when you took it yesterday. Every one of us is in agreement. All of your disciples are in agreement that you require to force yourself to eat and drink more. What can we do if you don't...
Prabhupāda: When I don't take anything, I feel more comfortable.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But you don't get better. That is the policy of death.
Prabhupāda: So let me die peacefully.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we already explained to you that we don't want you to die.
Prabhupāda: But if I become discomfortable, that will be...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But that's only temporary, this discomfort. It's only temporarily until one gets better. Medicine is only required until one gets better. Then he can throw out the medicines.
Prabhupāda: Ah. AHHH! Jaya Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. Now I am feeling don't force.
| Page Title: | Every one of us (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 05 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=75, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 75 |