Prabhupāda: The brāhmaṇa became by caste brāhmaṇa. He will do everything nonsense and still, he remains a brāhmaṇa. But you can introduce the original Vedic culture in this Europe and America. You have understood. You can do it. By this material civilization they will never be happy. And it is risky. That they do not know. They do not believe in the transmigration of the soul. So irresponsibly . . . Or just like these elderly person, how they are wasting time.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Just sitting on the beach.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not only sitting; they have no other engagement. They do not know how human life should be utilized. They do not know. They are simply taking consideration of the body, running or skating or this or that, but they have no other engagement. They do not believe that there is soul and that soul's business is first business. They do not know that, neither they do accept it. They are under nature's law, very simply explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, dehino ’smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). By nature's law you have to change your body. It is evident. Still, they will not believe. We’re changing body every moment, and they will say, big, big professors, that after the body is finished, everything is finished. This is ajñāna. And that is going on as education, whole world. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." The whole world is in ignorance, so we are giving them wise instruction; they are thinking, "These people are crazy men." That's all.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How were the leaders, though, of India so weak when the British first occupied that they allowed this all to take place?
Prabhupāda: There was no Indian leader. That was occupied by the Muhammadans. They were deteriorating. Yes. Besides that, Indian mass of people, they were never trained to become nationalist. They thought, "Let anyone become king. It doesn’t matter. We . . . Let us live peacefully, and whatever due tax we shall pay. That's all." When the Muhammadans came, the people did not think that these are foreigners. "It does not matter, Muhammadan, Hindu." But they did not think so far that gradually it will deteriorate.
(in car) Even Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he has favored the British government, because they did not interfere with the religious affair.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Over the Muslims.
Prabhupāda: No, Britishers. The Muslims interfered. They wanted to propagate Islamism. Not all; some of them. But Britishers, although they were spreading Christianism, still, outwardly they were neutral about religious affairs. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura preferred, that "Britishers are good. They do not interfere with our religious affair." So the idea is the India—you may say primitive or whatever you want—they wanted to make progress of the soul. They did not care who is ruling. So "Whatever tax is due we shall pay. Let us do our own business." That was India's attitude. They never thought in terms of nationalism. That was never educated. They were never educated.