Prabhupāda: Satsvarūpa is there?
Hari-śauri: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Let him come in. When you have come?
Satsvarūpa: A few hours ago.
Prabhupāda: So, everything's all right?
Satsvarūpa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Explain to them about eternal life.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Eternal life?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Eternal life is described by Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā: ajo nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇaḥ.
- na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin
- nāyaṁ bhūtvā bhavitā vā na bhūyaḥ
- ajo nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇo
- na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre
- (BG 2.20)
Eternal means without a beginning and without an end. So this body, this human form of life, or tree form of life, or animal form of life, aquatic form of life, it has a beginning and it has an end. But the person, the soul, has no beginning or end. This is described by Kṛṣṇa that: dehino 'smin yathā dehe, kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). We've experienced in our practical lifetime that we were very tiny, youth, we had a small body, child's body: kaumāraṁ yauvanam. Then youthful body, then we're having old man, old woman's body, like this. So practically speaking, this body is constantly changing. Although Kṛṣṇa gives this example because He is trying to explain a very fine point of understanding, namely transmigration of the soul: that in reality the body that we have is changing at every moment, at every instant. But we can not see that because our consciousness is not so sharp to pick up when there's change of body. But Kṛṣṇa explains, "You can see that you had a small body, now you have a youthful body, now you have an old man's body." Actually there is a continuum of change at every moment. So this is the changing material body, and the mind likewise is changing, but the soul, the living entity, is not changing. And this is experienced practically by the fact that in spite of so many changes of body that we had we've still the same person. Just like we can remember when we were young children playing in the park or at the streets, and then older, older, older; going to school; older, family life; older, now retired; now like this (indistinct). So like this the body is changing in so many ways but still I'm the same person. This can be practically experienced. Everyone has this understanding: different bodies but you're still the same person. So this spiritual identity should be the real concern, athāto brahma jijñāsā. This should be the real concern of the human society, not this temporary changing body. The whole human society is presently geared how to satisfy the demands of this temporary body. So we can see practically that this is fruitless. Ultimately we have to give up this body; ultimately we have to give up our connection with society, with family, with everything. So everything should have its proper place naturally, but the real focus of human life should be on the soul. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not only the soul, but the relationship of the soul with God. So practically speaking, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a spiritual movement. We're trying to come to the platform, as Prabhupāda has been speaking in class in the mornings about sat-dharma: eternal religion or eternal activity of the soul. Sat means eternal. Here in this material world everything is temporary. By accident you may be born in America or in India or in Japan or in a human form or in a cat form, but it's temporary. But the soul is eternal and there is also a place: paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ (BG 8.20). Another place beyond this material world which is called the spiritual world. And that place is sanātana, that place is eternal, and Kṛṣṇa also is eternal. So, sat, sat-dharma or eternal occupation of the soul, eternal religion is that the living entity should be in this place, this eternal place where there's no change of body. That you have to take a body and then give it up, and then according to your work, take another body and then give it up, revolve in the cycle of birth and death unnecessarily. Go to the sanātana atmosphere, and there the sanātana Lord is there, and there the soul is in its natural environment, and the exchange of love that takes place in this spiritual world, this is Sat-dharma. So this temporary world of birth and death, this is asat. Kṛṣṇa says, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). It's asat: it's a temporary place. We're taking it to be real just like in a dream we take that the dream is all in all. But by chanting this mantra, we will awaken from this maddening materialistic way of life which is simply binding us up more and more to this false conception of attachment for this body. Practically we know that we have to give up this body, but still because everyone in the material world... Prabhupāda explained this morning, it's just like a mad-man. People are attached... just like if you are attached to your clothes and you're thinking that if my clothes are finished, I am finished. So this is a mad proposition. You can always get another set of clothes. Similarly we are different from this body. So to be overly attached to this body or even attached at all is a form of madness. That's a fact. We analyze this soberly.
Guest (1): You mentioned an exchange of love in the spiritual world.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Guest (1): Could you explain that more?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Everyone is exchanging love in this world, we see that practically, that husband and wife are exchanging love, children and parents are exchanging love, friend and friend are exchanging love. There are so many different relationships in which we exchange love. Even animals like a dog; a cat/dog is exchanging love. It's been analyzed, experiments have been done that even a plant is more productive when he knows that the person who is taking care of the plant is a friend. They speak about the green thumb. So even plants respond. They are sensitive. In a sense they are also exchanging love in a simple way. So this loving propensity is natural. The difficulty is that due to ignorance, we're exchanging love on the bodily platform, which is asat, temporary. And therefore everyone is frustrated. Everyone is frustrated. It's a false platform of love. So the real platform of love is when we come to the soul platform. Kṛṣṇa speaks about this in the Bhagavad-gītā:
- brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
- na śocati na kāṅkṣati
- samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
- mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
- (BG 18.54)
That when you come to the soul platform, it's also called brahma-bhūta stage or platform of the soul, then mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām: that bhakti, bhakti means transcendental love and service to God.
Prabhupāda: Bhakti means yes, exchange of love between God and the individual soul.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This becomes awaking of the spiritual platform. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness process is gradually to purify one, because that natural loving propensity is there. Our contention, and practically we are experiencing it, is that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is natural way of life. It's not artificial imposition. Rather in this present materialistic way of life, so many artificial standards and impositions have been put upon us. We can see that because culture is always changing. One year this is right to do, the next year that's right. Everything is simply mental concoction. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness process is eternal, it's never changed. We have history from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. For millions and millions of years people have been engaged in the very same process that we're following: of chanting the holy names, worshiping the Deity in the temple, taking prasādam, association with saintly persons. The very same process, it hasn't changed. And the very same sentiment of love of God is being awakened naturally. So our contention is that the love is simply misdirected. It simply has to be redirected towards Kṛṣṇa, and the spiritual master, he does this. He takes our energy, our love, our intelligence, our everything and directs it towards Kṛṣṇa. And as a result, you become purified. A very natural process. Just like we have a propensity to love so rather than waste our love on the temporary forms of the material world, because they're all perishable. Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣv ātma-sainyeṣv asatsv api (SB 2.1.4). First of all we love the body, deha. And apatya, we love the family members, the sons, kalatra, we love our wife, ādiṣu we like our community, nation, so many things. But all of these things, they're temporary. They won't last, they can't endure. So all of our love practically is being wasted. It's stolen.
Prabhupāda: There is an example. In a water tank you throw one stone. It becomes a circle. And the circle expands, expands, expands unless the circle comes to the shore. Similarly our loving affair begins from personal self to family, from family to society, community, nation, international. But still, it is imperfect unless the circle reaches to the lotus feet of God. Then it is satisfied. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42). Here, any loving affairs, that is more or less lusty. A man or woman love each other with some desire, not without desire. That desire is sense gratification. But actually that is lust not love. Pure love can be exchanged in relationship with God. Here there are temporary... A boy, a girl or a man, a woman in relationship of love but it breaks as soon as the lusty desire is not fulfilled. So here there is no question of love. It is all lusty desire. Real love can be achieved when it is exchanged with Kṛṣṇa or God. Premā pum-artho mahān, that is the recommendation given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That is the highest (indistinct) when we come on the loving platform with God, then we are satisfied. Big, big political leaders in our country like Mahatma Gandhi, he loved his country so much. But the result was that he was killed by his own men, by his country men. But this is not possible when the love is exchanged between God. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31), a little love for God can save you from the greatest danger of life. That is real love. So if you love Kṛṣṇa, then you can love with everyone. Just like we are spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is out of love for Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise we would have sat down at home and love Kṛṣṇa. Why you are trying to spread this love exchange to others? Because I know or we know that here in this material world, the so-called love exchange is frustrating, and people are being frustrated. So let him love Kṛṣṇa, then we'll be successful. This is our mission. Everyone has got loving propensity. So this child has now love for his mother, for the mother has got... But as soon as the child will grow, the love is finished, he will love somebody else. When he becomes young man, his love is transferred to somebody else. So here the so-called love is not permanent, but when you love Kṛṣṇa it is permanent exchange of loving humor or mellow. So that is required. Sai this called sai-eva. Sai(?) means permanent it will never end. You'll relish loving mellows eternal.
- āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu mām
- adarśanān marma-hatāṁ karotu vā
- yathā tathā vā vidadhātu lampaṭo
- mat-prāṇa-nāthas tu sa eva nāparaḥ
- (CC Antya 20.47)
Explain this verse.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The eighth verse of Caitanya Mahāprabhu Śikṣāṣṭaka.
Prabhupāda: Śikṣāṣṭaka.
Satsvarūpa: I do not know anyone but Kṛṣṇa as my Lord.
Prabhupāda: Yes.