As Kṛṣṇa is eternal, similarly, every one of us we are eternal because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa—the same quality. As Kṛṣṇa is sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1), He is form, transcendental form, eternal form, full of knowledge, full of bliss, similarly we are also, although particle, the same quality. Therefore it is said, na jāyate. This problem, this rascal civilization, they cannot understand that I am eternal, I am put into this condition of birth and death. No rascal understands. So-called philosophers, scientists, all of them, therefore rascals, fools. Reject them. Reject them immediately. That working hard. The same: nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Just like madman works. What is the value of madman's work? If he's busy whole day and night, I am very busy. So what you are sir? You are a madman. Your brain is cracked, crazy. So what is the value of your work? But this is going on.
Eternal form (Lectures)
Expressions researched:
"eternal form"
|"eternal forms"
|"eternal"
|"form'"
|"forms"
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
Madhudviṣa: Purport: "The Lord has spoken about the peculiarity of this verse. Although He may appear like an ordinary person, He remembers everything of His many, many past births, whereas a common man cannot remember what he has done even a few hours before. If somebody is asked what he did exactly at the same time one day earlier, it would be very difficult for him to answer immediately. He would have to dredge his memory to recall what he was doing. And yet men often dare to claim to be God or Kṛṣṇa. One should not be misled by such meaningless claims. Then again, the Lord explains His prakṛti or His form. Prakṛti means nature as well as svarūpa, or one's own form. The Lord says that He appears in His own body. He does not change His body as the common living entity does from one to another. The conditioned soul may have one kind of body in the present birth, but he has a different one in the next birth. In the material world the living entity transmigrates in this way. The Lord, however, does not do so. Whenever He appears, He does so in the same original body by His internal potency. In other words, Kṛṣṇa appears in this material world in His original eternal form with two hands and holding a flute."
Prabhupāda: Yes. In your Bible also it is said that "Man is made after God," not that God is made after man. The atheist class, they say that "You have created a God according to your own feature," but no scripture says like that. God has eternal two hands, two legs. So man... God is so kind that man is also made according to His form.
Pradyumna: "In the material world a living entity has no fixed body, but transmigrates from one body to another. The Lord, however, does not do so. Whenever He appears, He does so in the same original body by His internal potency. In other words, Kṛṣṇa appears in this material world in His original eternal form with two hands holding a flute. He appears exactly in His eternal body, uncontaminated by this material world. Although He appears in the same transcendental body and is Lord of the universe, it still appears that..."
Prabhupāda: How He can be contaminated by the modes of material nature?
Pradyumna: "Although He appears in the same transcendental body and is Lord of the universe, it still appears that He takes His birth like an ordinary living entity. Despite the fact Lord Kṛṣṇa grows from childhood to boyhood, and from boyhood to youth, astonishingly enough, He never ages beyond youth. At the time of the Battle of Kurukṣetra, He had many grandchildren at home, or, in other words, He had sufficiently aged by material calculations. Still, He looked just like a young man, twenty or twenty-five years old. We never see a picture of Kṛṣṇa in old age because He never grows old like us, although He is the oldest person in the whole creation, past, present and future. Neither His body nor His intelligence ever deteriorates or changes. Therefore it is clear that in spite of His being in this material world, He is the same unborn eternal form of bliss and knowledge, changeless in His transcendental body and intelligence. Factually, His appearance and disappearance are like the sun's rising, moving before us and then disappearing from our eyesight. When the sun is out of sight, we think that the sun has set, and when the sun is before our eyes, we think that the sun is on the horizon."
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa does not appear or disappear. Our eyesight changes. Just like we are looking through the window. One horse race is going on. When the horse comes before the window, we can see. And when it passes through, from our eyesight, we think that horse is no longer existing. But the horse is running. This example should be taken. Kṛṣṇa is called nitya-līlā. He is taking His birth, He is fighting in the battle of Kurukṣetra, He's dancing with the gopīs.
Yet, He still appears to take His birth in multi-manifestations. The Vedic supplementary literatures also confirm that even though the Lord appears to be taking His birth, He is still without change of body. In the Bhāgavatam, He appears before His mother as Nārāyaṇa with four hands and the decoration of the six kinds of full opulences. His appearance in His original eternal form is His causeless mercy, according to the Viśvakośa dictionary. The Lord is conscious of all of His previous appearances and disappearances, but a common living entity forgets everything about his past body as soon as he gets another body. He is the Lord of all living entities because He performs wonderful and superhuman activities while He is on this earth. Therefore the Lord is always the same Absolute Truth, and is without differentiation between His form and self or between His quality and body. The question may now be raised as to why the Lord appears and disappears in His form. This is explained in the next verse."
Viṣṇujana: "To merge in Kṛṣṇa is spiritual annihilation. The devotee takes no such risk. It is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā: 'I worship the primeval Lord, Govinda, who is always seen by the devotee whose eyes are anointed with the pulp of love. He is seen in His eternal form of Śyāmasundara situated within the heart of the devotee.' "
Prabhupāda: Śyāmasundara, this is Śyāmasundara, that Kartamasana.
- premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena
- santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti
- yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpaṁ
- govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi.
- (Bs. 5.38)
So one who has developed this love of Kṛṣṇa, he sees Śyāmasundara, the Kartamasana, always within his heart. That is perfection of yoga, Kartamasana, I have given that name, of course, He is Śyāmasundara, yes. All right, then? Next paragraph.
Viṣṇujana: "At this stage, Lord Kṛṣṇa never disappears from the sight of the devotee, nor does the devotee ever lose sight of the Lord. In the case of a yogi who sees the Lord as Paramātmā within the heart, the same applies. Such a yogi turns into a pure devotee and cannot bear to live for a moment without seeing the Lord within himself."
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
Tri-sargo 'mṛṣā. But there is another place: dhāmnā svena nirasta-kuhakam. We are offering here obeisances to the bricks, stone, iron. Just like in your country especially—in all Western countries—there are so many statues. The same thing, tejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ vinimayaḥ. But when we install Deity, actually the form, eternal form of Kṛṣṇa, nobody offers obeisances. They'll go to offer obeisances to the dead. Just like in British Museum. They are standing in queue to offer obeisances to a dead body. It has no value, but they are wasting time there. But here, if they are invited, "Oh, they are worshiping idol. Why shall I go? Why shall I go there?" This is called illusion. They are actually doing that, obeisances, but not to the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Vyāsadeva says that "I offer my obeisances to the Supreme Absolute Truth." Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi (SB 1.1.1). There is no more truth beyond that. And as Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7).
Upendra: "His body is eternally in spiritual existence par excellence." Purport: "The conception of virāḍ-rūpa or viśva-rūpa of the Supreme Absolute Truth is specially meant for the neophyte materialist who can hardly think of the transcendental form of the Personality of Godhead. To them a form means something of this material world and as such an opposite conception of the absolute is necessary for them in the beginning to concentrate their mind in the power extension of the Lord. As stated above the Lord extends His potency in the form of mahat-tattva which includes all material ingredients. The extension of power by the Lord and the Lord Himself personally are one in one sense but at the same time the mahat-tattva is different also from the Lord. Therefore the potency of the Lord and the Lord are non-different. The conception of the virāḍ-rūpa specially for impersonalist is thus non different from the eternal Form of the Lord. This eternal form of the Lord exists prior to the creation of the mahat-tattva and it is stressed here that the eternal Form of the Lord..."
Prabhupāda: Just like in the Bible it is said "God said, 'Let there be creation.' " That means before the creation, before this material creation, God was there. And the material... There was nothing material. Therefore, God's body cannot be material, because He existed before the creation of matter. So before creation of matter, there was nothing like matter, though God was there. Therefore conclusion is that God has no material body. He spoke, "Let there be creation."
Prabhupāda: You can ask after we have finished all these things. Not within the lecture you cannot ask. What is that?
Upendra: "...the eternal form of the Lord is par excellence spiritual or transcendental to the modes of material nature. The very same transcendental form of the Lord is manifested by His internal potency and the formation of His multifarious manifestation of incarnations are always of the same transcendental quality without any touch of the mahat-tattva." Text number 4.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Now what is your question?
Viṣṇujana: We offered food up one time to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Some fruit?
Pradyumna: "Generally people have many wrong conceptions about both of them. The wrong conception of the jīvātmā is to identify the material body with the pure soul. And the wrong conception of Paramātmā is to think Him on an equal level with the living entity. But both misconceptions can be removed by one stroke of bhakti-yoga, just as in the sunlight both the sun and the world and everything within the sunlight are properly seen. In the darkness no one can see the sun, nor himself, nor the world. But in the sunlight one can see the sun, himself, and the world around him. Śrīla Śukadeva Gosvāmī therefore says that for purification of both wrong conceptions, the Lord presented His eternal form before Brahmājī, being fully satisfied by Brahmā's nondeceptive vow of discharging bhakti-yoga."
Prabhupāda: Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). That is clearly said in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, "If you want to know Me, then you have to accept this bhakti-yoga. No other means will...," because without full surrender unto Kṛṣṇa, nobody can know Him. Even a very important man in this world, you cannot know him by challenge. But if you surrender, it is possible to know him. Then? (break)
The eternal form is veṇuṁ kvaṇantam. Kṛṣṇa is always playing on His flute. That is eternal form. His eternal pastimes and eternal form is in Vṛndāvana. He does not go anywhere personally, leaving Vṛndāvana. Padam ekaṁ na gacchati. He is always in Vṛndāvana, but at the same time, He is everywhere. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ: (Bs. 5.37) "Although He is always in His abode, Goloka Vṛndāvana, still, He is present everywhere." How He is present? Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (Bs. 5.35). Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati: (BG 18.61) "He is situated in everyone's heart." He is situated in each and every universe. The universe is created by His breathing.
So the eternal form is Kṛṣṇa, but Viṣṇu, Mahā-Viṣṇu, who is the origin of material creation, kalā-viśeṣa, He is the expansion of the plenary expansion of Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Aniruddha, Pradyumna. In this way He is present everywhere. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān. He is bigger than the biggest and the smaller than the smallest. Relativity. Now here we are small stature. So Kṛṣṇa is present in a stature so that we can touch Him, we can dress Him, we can decorate Him. Similarly, in other planets... It is relative. The law of relativity is going on everywhere. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān.
Harikeśa: "The glory of the Lord is always worth singing, for His glories enhance the glories of His devotees. One should therefore meditate upon the Supreme Personality of Godhead and upon His devotees. One should meditate on the eternal form of the Lord until the mind becomes fixed."
Prabhupāda:
- kīrtanya-tīrtha-yaśasaṁ
- puṇya-śloka-yaśaskaram
- dhyāyed devaṁ samagrāṅgaṁ
- yāvan na cyavate manaḥ
- (SB 3.28.18)
This is called meditation. Yāvan, so long the mind is disturbed and deviates from our subject of meditation, one should practice this kīrtana. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). Caitanya Mahāprabhu advises that the devotee should chant always, twenty-four hours, kīrtanya: "It is worth singing." It is worth singing, why? Puṇya ślokasya, puṇya ślokasya. Puṇya śloka yaśaskaram. Even if you do not fix up your mind... Kīrtana means fix up your mind, but even if you do not fix up your mind, then you are still gainer.
Harikeśa: "In fixing his mind on the eternal form of the Lord, the yogi should not take a collective view of all His limbs, but should fix the mind on each individual limb of the Lord."
Prabhupāda:
- tasmiḻ labdha-padaṁ cittaṁ
- sarvāvayava-saṁsthitam
- vilakṣyaikatra saṁyujyād
- aṇge bhagavato muniḥ
- (SB 3.28.20)
So as we have explained many times, that this arca-mūrti... The rascal class of men, they cannot understand arca-mūrti. They think that "They are worshiping idol." Even amongst the Hindus there are so-called followers of Vedas. They also say that "What is the necessity of worshiping Deity in the temple?" They made very vigorous propaganda in India to stop temple worship. For a short time it has got some reaction, but now it is finished. That rascal propaganda not to worship the Deity in the temple is finished. Nobody cares for that.
Devotee (2): Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?
Madhudviṣa: The question is that whether the eternal form of the spirit soul is a human form or is it...
Prabhupāda: Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Kṛṣṇa, two hands, two legs.
Hari-śauri: How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?
The Brahma-saṁhitā says that His eternal form is ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. Rasa means taste, mellow. So we are also seeking some rasa in everything—a juice. When you taste any fruit or anywhere, you are seeking after some juice, everyone. So there is another juice which is ānanda-cinmaya, which is spiritual and simply blissful. That is Kṛṣṇa's form. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis. And when there is expansion of ānanda-cinmaya, that spiritual bliss expansion, that expansion is ourself. He has expanded. We are that expansion, living entities. And ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tabh... The gopīs, gopīs are also expansion. The cowherds boys, they are expansions. Everything. Kṛṣṇa has expanded Himself. Eko bahu śyāma: "One. I am one." The Supreme Lord says, 'I am one. I shall expand." So He has expanded by His energy, by His part and parcel, and everywhere the same quality is there. But there are proportion. Just like when there is fire there is bursting out of sparks. Some of the spark are very big; some of the spark are small, some of them, very small. In this way there are proportion.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
Not "Nowadays they are taking more birth and population is increasing." This is all nonsense. Population is neither increasing nor decreasing. It may be... The living entities, they are transmigrating in this material world, not in the spiritual world. In the spiritual world they have got their eternal form. But in the material world, because the living entities have come to enjoy the material resources, therefore, according to the desire, the living entity is getting different forms of body, 8,400,000. But he is not dying. The body is changed. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13).
Festival Lectures
We are eternal form. We change our body. We don't die. As we are changing daily, every moment changing body, so the final change means accept another body. This is also accepting another body, but imperceptibly. The change is so quick. Just like in the cinema spool there are so many pictures changing, but it is changing so quickly that we are seeing one picture moving. So that is our ignorance. But actually there are thousands of pictures changing in a moment, and you see that one picture is moving. Why do you not study in this way? Similarly, every second, our body is changing, just like spool, one after another, one after another, one after another. But I am... The spirit soul is there, just like the cinema spool is changing, but the seer is there. That is one, although the pictures are changing. Similarly, we are nitya. Nitya means eternal. And we are nitya. Then why God should be dead?
Philosophy Discussions
Prabhupāda: Yes. That they do not know. That is their ignorance. We say wherefrom this form came, who gave this idea? The Vedānta says janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), the origin, from the original source it comes.
Kīrtanānanda: So the question is that, these forms that are here, are they actually eternal forms?
Prabhupāda: No. There is eternal..., this is not eternal. This is imitation. Perverted reflection. Reflection is not eternal. As soon as the condition is gone, there is no reflection.
Śyāmasundara: He says that they are not eternal but that the interaction of forms is an eternal process, that one form interacts with another...
Śyāmasundara: He says that they are not eternal but that the interaction of forms is an eternal process, that one form interacts with another...
Prabhupāda: They cannot explain it. The real is that this form is not eternal, but there is an eternal form. Just like the water. The form of the water on the desert, that is not fact, neither it is eternal. But there is eternal water. Otherwise wherefrom I get this idea here it is water. There is water. Now the presentation of water in the desert, that may be false. The Māyāvādī philosophers they do not know.
Śyāmasundara: But if the universe is rational and everything has a purpose, then this temporary form is also spiritual because it has some kind of purpose.
Prabhupāda: Yes, and that we are utilizing, everything, for the purpose, to make the best use of bad bargain.
Prabhupāda: Because he is constitutionally spiritual being, he is not any product of this material world. He is part and parcel of the Supreme One. But he is embodied by the material elements, and the material elements requires change. It becomes old. Just like our shoes, our dress, it becomes old. I can have one shirt and coat, but as soon as I change the body, the shirt and coat is no more fitting the body, so I have to change. So material life means to change. It is called jagat. Jagat means changing. But we are eternal, the same spirit soul. That this material life is not very happy, because it will change. Even if we are in the very comfortable condition of life or in miserable condition of life, it will change to better or lower grade of life. That is going on. So in order to save ourselves from the repetition of changing body, if we want to remain in our original, eternal, spiritual form, we must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and then we are relieved from this rotten business of repetition of birth, death, old age and disease.
| Page Title: | Eternal form (Lectures) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 23 of Nov, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=21, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 21 |