Equality (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"equality"

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa does not make any discrimination. Kṛṣṇa does not make. Whatever difference is there, it is bodily difference. But as soul, there is equality. So whatever difference we make, that is bodily difference. So when one is above the bodily concept of life, there is no difference. Why woman? Even cats and dogs. Woman is human being. Even cats and dogs, they have got the same spirit soul. So a learned scholar will see from the spiritual platform. Then there is equality.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa does not make any discrimination. Kṛṣṇa does not make. Whatever difference is there, it is bodily difference. But as soul, there is equality. So whatever difference we make, that is bodily difference. So when one is above the bodily concept of life, there is no difference. Why woman? Even cats and dogs. Woman is human being. Even cats and dogs, they have got the same spirit soul. So a learned scholar will see from the spiritual platform. Then there is equality.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. This woman liberation movement, they speak like that, but they try to control every man with their body, they try to control their mind. And I told them, when you stop doing that, you're liberated. And they talk, they talk all the time, but they're still playing woman games.

Devotee (2): They want to be men in women's bodies.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (2): They want to be men in women's bodies. They want to control, they want to be the president of the company, they want to wear pants, and they don't want to have children. This is basically their idea.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: But they want to control with their bodies, with their physical attraction. They want to use that too.

Prabhupāda: That is material. It has no spiritual significance.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But that is... The cattle food is food for the non-civilized man. If you claim to be civilized, you cannot eat.

Buddhist Monk (1): (laughs) Live and let live. That's what I have been asking people wherever I go. They talk of culture, civilization, progress, development, living standards, education, equality, freedom, lots of things. I asked them to define this, and I asked them, "The animals are of two types: the carnivorous and the vegetarian. Of course, the carnivorous looks even fiercer. But where has one found in the forest so many thousands of animals slaughtered and lying at random? But man today, in the name of progress and civilization..."

Prabhupāda: Very, very good. Yes.

Buddhist Monk (1): Yeah. So they have gone, according to me, lower than our animal brothers.

Prabhupāda: Certainly, certainly. Your argument is very good.

Buddhist Monk (1): Of course, it's very very...

Prabhupāda: In the forest, there is no slaughterhouse, although they are carnivorous animals.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: He gets equality, attains equality position. Yes, purport?

Nitāi: To the impersonalist, achieving the brahma-bhūta stage, becoming one with the Absolute, is the last word. But for the personalist, or pure devotee, one has to go still further to become engaged in pure devotional service. This means that one who is engaged in pure devotional service to the Supreme Lord is already in a state of liberation, called brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20), oneness with the Absolute. Without being one with the Supreme, the Absolute, one cannot render service unto Him. In the absolute conception, there is no difference between the served and the servitor; yet the distinction is there, in a higher spiritual sense.

In the material concept of life, when one works for sense gratification, there is misery, but in the absolute world, when one is engaged in pure devotional service, there is no misery. The devotee in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has nothing to lament or desire. Since God is full, a living entity who is engaged in God's service, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, becomes also full in himself. He is just like a river cleansed of all dirty water. Because a pure devotee has no thought other than Kṛṣṇa, he is naturally always joyful.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: So where is equal rights? Even in Russia, there is managerial class and laborer class. Where are equal rights? Why there are managers? Yes. I have seen it. The managerial class and the laborer class. So where is equality? Why the managerial class? You know that? There must be required. The old women, they are sweeping the street. Why not Mr. Lenin come and sweep the street? Why he is sitting in a big palace and the poor woman has been engaged to sweep the street? Where is equality? What advancement they have made? We are following opiate. They are following opiate, Lenin's rascal's philosophy. That's all. That is also opiate. But where is equality? That is also opiate. You are advocating equality, but where there is a man manager and another man is working. So why you are accepting this nonsense philosophy being opiated by rascal Lenin?

Haihaya: They measure everything by the type of work.

Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter. If I become manager, I will pay for that. Suppose there is work as a... Would you like to work sweep the street or become manager? What shall I say? "No, no, I shall become manager." Why this mentality? Why he does not accept, "Yes, I shall sweep"?

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: They think, but we see practically: Why there is difference between this manager and the laborer class? Will the dictator, the manager will take the same salary as the sweeper is taking? Why there is difference? Why the manager is given more preference for living condition? Where is equality? First of all show me. Simply talking will not do.

Dhanañjaya: Actually, the only difference is that in the communist countries, religion is not allowed.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. But their philosophy that everyone is equal... Where is equality? There is no equality. Why you are talking nonsense? And in Moscow I have seen. So many people are walking, and others are going on motorcar. Why? why this difference? Why not everyone motorcar? Then what improvement you have made? You are simply talking. Why this difference? Nobody wants to walk. Why thousands of people walking on the street, and some of them are going on motorcar? Why? Where is the equality?

Haihaya: Śrīla Prabhupāda, they said that equality came by... No, it's not equal, but they must give the same possibilities to everyone.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Oh. So that everyone is giving. We also give. "Never mind you are śūdra. You become brāhmaṇa. Come on. Be Kṛṣṇa conscious." That we also are giving. We don't deny, "Oh, you are śūdra, you cannot become a brāhmaṇa." We don't say that. He can also become brāhmaṇa. "Come on. You learn how to become brāhmaṇa." That's all. That... The point is this equality, there cannot be. First point is this. This is nonsense. But everyone should be given the chance to occupy the best position. That is in our philosophy also. But unequality there must remain. You cannot make equality. It is not possible. That is nonsense. In your country there is no equality. Why an old man—I have seen it—she is sweeping the street? So old woman, she should have taken rest, but she is engaged for sweeping the street. And a young man, he is becoming dictator. Where is the equality? She should have given rest, but she is obliged to work. And another young man, he is a manager. Why? Why this inequality? Where is equality? First of all settle up how you can make equal. That you cannot do. Then you are talking nonsense, "equality." It is not possible.

Haihaya: We are spirit soul. That is equality.

Prabhupāda: That is equality. That is the position of equality.

Nitāi: But as far as these bodies go, there is no equality.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Actually, God is giving us bread, not this "Communist Party." That's a fact. But they have no intelligence to reply these rascals. That's all. Therefore these isms, so-called isms, is good for the rascals, not for the intelligent man. Intelligent man will immediately ask, "Where is your equality?" And they cannot reply. (break)

Satsvarūpa: ...also based on karma, that one man is meant to have more than another of material things? Is that an argument against...?

Prabhupāda: Is there any difficulty to understand? As soon as you say you become manager, that means his karma is better. Where is the difficulty to understand it? Why you appoint one man manager and one man worker? His capacity of karma is better. So where is the difficulty to understand? Better karma, better reward. It is going on.

Haihaya: The communists asked to us what we do for the starving people.

Prabhupāda: Rascal, what you have done? You are simply talking. What you have done? There are so many starving people all over the world. What you have done? "Starving people." I have seen. They cannot give starving people. Just like we went to Russia. So we wanted rice. There is no rice. There was no good rice. We wanted fruit. There was no fruit. So what you have done? I am starving for fruit and rice. You cannot supply me. That is practical. I have seen it. They will offer, "Take this beef instead of fruit."

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: First of all, the quality. The quality of Christian is that he must obey the ten commandments. If he does not obey, then where is his Christianity? That is stated, guṇa-karma: by quality and work one becomes Christian or Hindu or Muslim. There must be the quality. But when the spirituality develops either from Christianity or Hindu or Muslim—it doesn't matter—then there is. Find out that verse, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Read it. This is the ideal of equality. Find out.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa:

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā suprasīdati

(SB 1.2.6)

"The supreme occupation, dharma, for all humanity is that by which men can attain to loving devotional service unto the transcendent Lord. Such devotional service must be unmotivated and uninterrupted in order to completely satisfy the self."

Prabhupāda: So our, this movement is to create lover of God. It does not matter whether he follows Christianity or Hinduism or Buddhism or this ism or that ism. One must be lover of God, and that is stated in the Bhāgavata. That is first-class religion which turns the followers to become lover of God, that's all.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Material nature is the mother. Material nature gives the body. But the soul is part and parcel of God. A soul is given, impregnated in the material nature, and they come out in so many species of life. How easily it is explained. So self-realization we explain that samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, equality to all living entities. But because they have no spiritual knowledge, they think that humanitarian work means to give all facility to the human being and not to the animals. We are talking of nationalism. National means anyone who has taken birth in that land. That is the definition of nationalism. But they are taking care of the human being who has taken birth in that land, but poor animals, they are being slaughtered. This is their nationalism. So all, everything is going wrong account of wrong conception of life. And that wrong conception of life is that "I am this body." But when we understand that "I am not this body; I am the active principle within this body," then this misconception will go out. That is the beginning of spiritual realization, or self-realization.

Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: If it is religious life. If in the name of religion it is sinful life, that is another thing. Alright Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. samaḥ sarveṣu, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate. That is the stage of making advancement in devotional life. Equality. Equality is possible when we are on the platform of spiritual life. Otherwise the United Nations will never be able to unite. That is not possible. (indistinct) If they unite, if they try to unite on Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then. Otherwise.... We are all part and parcel of God. Somehow or other we are all differently dressed, although we are one. (indistinct) Now just like you are Canadian, I am Indian. (indistinct). There are crows, there are pigeons, there are sparrows (indistinct). Why they are not quarreling? Simply you are designated European, Indian and Canadian, German, so we have to give up this designation. Then they will be united. Otherwise, but they are very much proud of these designations. Therefore, bhakti means sarvopādhi vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). When one is completely free from designation. The designation is (indistinct). And the whole world is being ruled by designation, "I am Indian", (indistinct). Ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8).

Room Conversation with Bhurijana dasa and Disciples -- July 1, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, classless society is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "Eat Kṛṣṇa-prasādam." Everyone will like. That is classless: "Everyone chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, everyone eat Kṛṣṇa-prasādam." Life is successful. Classless society on the spiritual platform, not on the material platform. That is not possible. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu (BG 18.54). At that stage, samatā, equality, when one is brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20), spiritualized... Otherwise not possible. So Dipaka is not here? No, he has gone.

Madhudviṣa: He's at the temple. He will be coming tonight, though. He usually comes to prepare you something before you take rest. I can send for him.

Prabhupāda: All right, no, no. No, no, let him come. I am not in a hurry. What is the time now?

Satsvarūpa: Ten to eight.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: No, they are also God's creature, but covered by the body. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Those who are spiritually advanced, they see equally because they know that within the body the spirit soul is there. The spirit soul is part and parcel of God. He is encaged somehow or other in a particular type of body. So a devotee of God is very kind to everyone. Brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na ka..., samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu (BG 18.54). Samaḥ sarveṣu..., mad-bhakti labhate param. That is the stage of making advance in devotional life—equality. That equality is possible when we are on the platform of spiritual understanding. Otherwise not possible. The United Nation will never be able to unite the nation. That is not possible.

Ambassador: Of course.

Prabhupāda: Not possible. If they unite, if they try to unite on Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is possible. Otherwise not possible. But we are all part and parcel of God. Accidentally, or somehow or other, we are now all differently dressed although we are one. They have to come to this understanding. Upādhi, designation. Now just like you are Canadian; I am Indian. Then I was just... In the noon I was thinking about the, what is called, goo goo, dodo? Do? The bird? Do? What is called? There is one class of bird, do?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Doves, doves.

Prabhupāda: So there are doves, there are pigeons, there are sparrows, there are crows. Now Iran, the same doves, same... Why they are not called "Iranian sparrow"? Why they are called only sparrow?

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Yes, (Bengali) ...really classless society. They should not be proud that "I am brāhmaṇa." No. As you are required, as much, the śūdra is also required. It is not that only the brāhmaṇas are required. This is a very scientific movement. (Bengali) It is not a bogus sentimental thing. It is a very scientific movement. It is not so-called yogi and swami and everything equal. And where is equality?

Guest: The Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is a scientific movement?

Prabhupāda: Most scientific.

satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ

yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ

namasyantaś ca māṁ bhaktyā

nitya-yuktā upāsate

(BG 9.14)

Guest: (Bengali) to realize the Supreme.

Prabhupāda: Realize the Supreme, that is the first and foremost aim, but at the same time, to keep the whole human society in perfect happiness, according to the direction of God. Just like I told you that Kṛṣṇa says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni. If you want to keep the living entities, both men and animal, you must arrange for their nice fooding. Who can deny this philosophy?

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: That is going on. When I meet you I say, "Yes sir." You say, "Yes sir." That is all right. That is social etiquette. But real unity is on the platform of spirit soul. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Paṇḍita, he is sama-darśina. So paṇḍitāḥ means

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

śuni caiva śva-pāke ca

paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ

(BG 5.18)

"A very learned brāhmaṇa and a dog and an elephant, a cow, a caṇḍāla—all of them, to a paṇḍita, really learned person, sama-darśinaḥ." You see? So now how a learned scholar brāhmaṇa and a dog can be seen on equal level? But it can be seen. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). It is on the spiritual platform, that every one of us is spirit soul. We are, by different karma, we are covered with different material dress. A dog is also a soul, and a learned brāhmaṇa is also a soul. But he is covered with different body, and he is covered with different body. So one who does not see the body, he can see on the same level. But one who sees the body, he cannot see. This is the basic principle of equality. I am seeing you are Sikh, you are seeing I am Hindu, he is seeing he is Christian, he is Mohammedan, and so on, so on. And nobody is seeing that nobody is brāhmaṇa. Nobody is seeing nobody is Hindu, nobody is Christian—he is pure soul. So that vision, unless one attains, how there can be equality? There is no possibility.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Misconception... Just like you have got a body; I have got a body. If I say, "No, I don't like you "... If I say, "I don't like you"... Naturally, when we see superficially, then this tendency will go on. When you see inside, introspectively, then there will be equality. That requires education. So...

Yogi Bhajan: All right, come and educate.

Prabhupāda: (Chuckling) But that education is there, the beginning, in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Yogi Bhajan: No, you are shy.

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā and the education is there, that, immediately Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Asmin dehe, there is the soul. This is the beginning of education. But there are many learned scholars; they do not believe in the soul. That is the difficulty. They do not believe. A big, big professor.... I have been in Moscow. Professor Kotovsky, he said, "No, there is no soul. After this finishing of the body, everything is finished."

Yogi Bhajan: But they don't have experience.

Prabhupāda: Therefore... So if you assemble some not experienced men, then how there will be unity?

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That means one has to come to the platform of brāhmaṇa. Then he can enter into devotional service. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param (BG 18.54). In that brāhminical state he sees every living entity as part and parcel of God. That is samaḥ, equality. He does not see like this, that the human being has soul and the cow has not soul. He does not see like that. He sees the cow has soul, the ant has soul, the elephant has soul, the tree has soul, the human being has soul. That is samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. By ignorance he thinks that "The tree has no soul; the cow has no soul; the animal has no soul; simply we have got soul." That is ignorance, base quality. But when you come to the pureness of goodness, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, this qualification will arise. So a devotee is not willing to kill even an ant because he knows that "He is also soul, part and parcel. By his karma, he has become ant, I have become a human being. So I am the same soul; he is the same soul. He is different body. He is suffering in that way. I have got different body. I am also suffering, but I am thinking I am enjoying." That is samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. What is the meaning, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu?

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: We give Kṛṣṇa consciousness both to the woman and man equally. We do not make any such distinction. But to protect them from this exploitation by man, we teach something, that "You do like this. You do like that. You be married. Be settled up. Don't wander independently." We teach them like that. But so far Kṛṣṇa consciousness is concerned, we equally distribute. There is no such thing that "Oh, you are woman, less intelligent or more intelligent. Therefore you cannot come." We don't say that. We welcome women, men, poor, rich, everyone, because in that platform equality.

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

śuni caiva śvapāke ca

paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ

(BG 5.18)

We do not refuse anyone. That is equality.

Sandy Nixon: How do you deal with negativity? In the outside world do... The devotees encounter negativity every day, people that are not interested. How, not just on the outside world, but how does one deal with that within, how does one relieve oneself of that negativism?

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: So you have to study first of all what is nature's law. You cannot surpass the nature's law. That is not possible. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Nature's law will go on. Best thing is, let the hand... the hand can typewrite, but if you say "No, the leg will typewrite," that is not possible. Take hand's business, take leg's business, and combine them cooperatively. Then the body will be nice. If the leg says "Why hand will type? I shall type," that's not possible. "Legs, all right, you walk, and hands that you type." Then combine together. Then it will be nice. You cannot change the different capacities. There is God's law, nature's law. Let the man and woman combine together, live peacefully. The woman takes charge of the household affairs, the man may take charge of bringing money, and they meet together, have Deity at home, together chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty? That is unity. Combine together, working differently but for the same purpose, for pleasing Kṛṣṇa, then you will become happy. That is equality. Unity in variety. That is wanted. Variety is enjoyment. Variety is not disturbing.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: Why He is sending so many varieties? He could have given one fruit, the coconut. With great difficulty to chop it you can get out the water, no? There are so many nice fruits. Just see Kṛṣṇa's intelligence. So Kṛṣṇa has made the varieties. Why should you disturb? Let the variety be united, just like these varieties are united, and it looks nice, and if you eat that will be nice. Why you want to stop the variety? That is Māyāvādī. Equality does not mean to stop variety. All the varieties combine together for the same purpose. That is required. Is it not? One must know how to put the variety to look very (indistinct). If all the vases have only rose flowers it would not have been so beautiful. Rose is costly, but the leaves are not costly. But the leaves and the rose fit together, it becomes very good variety. That art is required, how to keep varieties together for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and look very beautiful. This art is known to the Kṛṣṇa conscious person, not to the fools and rascals. Why Kṛṣṇa has made varieties? Why you should try to change? That is lack of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When Kṛṣṇa has made so many varieties there is some purpose. That one should understand. That is intelligence. You can organize these farms very nicely. Then this devil's workshop will stop.

Morning Walk -- November 30, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: But what they will do with the money?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Just buy a little more vodka.

Ambarīṣa: Go on vacation.

Prabhupāda: Then where is equality?

Ambarīṣa: That's why the Chinese and the Russians don't get along. The Chinese say that the Russians have diverted from Marxism.

Prabhupāda: They will have to divert because both, either Chinese or Russian, these are all rascaldom. It is not perfect system.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But the chairman of the Russian Communist Party, Mr. Brezhnev, he has about fifteen foreign cars. Each time a foreign dignitary goes, he gives him a special car. So everyone is supposed to be equal, but he is not equal. He has fifteen cars for himself. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...clean city. (break) It is not the same New Delhi as five or ten years before. Huh?

Tejās: Yes.

Prabhupāda: How long you are here?

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: Yes, and said Sītā was a prostitute. I don't know.... And still, the government could, I mean, support them. It's too much of a joke.

Prabhupāda: But these.... You cannot.... Even on religious principle or so-called religion, you cannot make equality. The rogues will always remain, either Hindu, Muslim.

Dr. Patel: You know that Naikar(?) last year. (break) Secular means you respect all religions. That is the definition of secularism. They mean, secularism means no religion. They are fools. You can call them rascals.

Prabhupāda: Because we rascals vote them.

Dr. Patel: No, sir. What man, rascals, vote them? It is the hutment fellows who bring them because they are in majority. I have never been elect to, I mean my candidate. Every time my vote goes useless.

Prabhupāda: That means you or your brother votes; somebody is elected. People are degenerated; therefore they do not know whom to vote.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are what, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: People are?

Prabhupāda: Degenerated. They do not...

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hari-śauri: They can't raise the standard up, so they bring it all down.

Rāmeśvara: That's their idea of equality.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Rāmeśvara: That's their idea of equality. All men are equal, so no one should have more money.

Hari-śauri: Make everyone a śūdra.

Rāmeśvara: That's what you wrote in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, that communism is a movement of śūdras.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they're śūdras.

Hari-śauri: There's a very popular slogan now in Australia.

Prabhupāda: Equality.

Hari-śauri: No, "Make the rich pay."

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Hari-śauri: They are so much envious of those persons with more money.

Prabhupāda: India also, that.... "Make the rich pay."

Room Conversation -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes, he'll lick up shoes. Another example is given: (Bengali saying) aṅgārā śveta... (indistinct). If you take a piece of coal, you can wash it hundreds and thousands of times, it never becomes white. And these are material things, but spiritually you can reform. It doesn't matter. If one comes to the spiritual platform then everything possible. Otherwise not.

Hari-śauri: They're always looking for a platform of equality.

Prabhupāda: The black men.

Hari-śauri: No, just the people in general, for happiness. Because they understand that if there are so many different groups, then there will always be fighting and dissent. So they are always looking for some compromise how to get the groups to live together.

Prabhupāda: This is equal—Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise not.

Hari-śauri: No. Materially speaking, they've tried so many ways to integrate the black with the whites here in America, but what has actually happened is, through those efforts, they've created a worse situation. By deliberately forcing black children and white children to go to the same schools... Sometimes they have what's called here bussing. It's a big major issue in politics now. Because they take all the black children and they take them to a white area just so that they can go to the school there. They actually take them further away from their local schools to another school, where it is all white children, so that they'll integrate and mix. So it's very controversial.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Especially madhurya-rasa. Anarpita carīṁ cirāt karuṇayāvatirṇaḥ kalau samarpayitum unnatojvala-rasāṁ sva bhakti śriyam. Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave information of the madhurya-rasa, that our relationship can be with Kṛṣṇa in conjugal love. So unless one comes to the platform of devotional service, one cannot understand. But for general understanding this philosophy of acintya-bhedābheda, simultaneously one and different.... That is explained in this verse. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). The living entities are part and parcel of God. So if God is gold, then living entities are also gold. This is equality in quality. But God is great, and we are always subordinate. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. We are protected, we are maintained, we are predominated. That is our position. We cannot attain the position of predominator. That is not possible.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because God is equal to everyone. He sees that these rascal asuras are misguided, so He sends His representative, He comes Himself, there is śāstras, guidance, and everything. The whole propaganda is how these rascal asuras can be turned into devatā. This is equality in the eyes of God. Very simple thing. Just like government puts a person into prison house. The idea is to correct him. Not that government is enemy of a class of men, they are put into the prison house. Government is equal. But there is department of punishing this... (aside:) (indistinct) Government is equal to everyone, but there is this department of reformation which is called jail department. He's punished so that he may come to his senses that "I have done wrong." But unfortunately there are stubborn criminals, they are not corrected. They go and again come, go and again come. One term finished, another term. One term finished... That is transmigration. One term finished, punishment, and another term begins. He creates another term. So that is daiva netreṇa. That is superior arrangement. Now this rascal has finished his human form of life, now again he has committed so many sins, let him become a dog. Again comes to the human form of life, again one chance is given. This not good, but he does not accept, so again he becomes a tree-stand up for ten thousand years. Nothing is a chance. Everything is under supreme control.

Room Conversation with Endowments Commissioner of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So at four o'clock you are coming there? No. At Mr. Raja's house?

Commissioner: ...minister.

Prabhupāda: They are holding some meeting? Today we have got very good article in the Sunday Chronicle. Everyone is reporting about us very nice, and still there are some envious persons, they are creating doubts about us.

Commissioner: They cannot create any doubts, Swamiji, as long as you are establishing the equality of man in the eyes of God, only one God. That is being done, I think.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we have no discrimination.

Commissioner: Ācchā. No discrimination. And that is the... I don't think anybody called...

Prabhupāda: Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Pradyumna: "If there is enough milk, enough grains, enough fruit, enough cotton, enough silk, and enough jewels, then why do the people need cinemas, houses of prostitution, slaughterhouses, etc? What is the need of an artificial luxurious life of cinema, cars, radio, flesh, and hotels? Has this civilization produced anything but quarreling, individually and nationally? Has this civilization enhanced the cause of equality and fraternity by sending thousands of men into a hellish factory and warfields at the whims of a particular man? It is said here that the cows used to moisten the pasturing land with milk." It's nice. You compare the warfield and the factory. I think people appreciate that. You compare the factory with the warfield.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So whatever thought comes to me, I discuss as far as possible. Why these things are... Therefore I want to organize this farm project. Let there be ideal. And it is becoming ideal in America. People are coming even from the school, college, they are coming to see New Vrindaban. And there was section where our enemies, they are not disturbing. So they are appreciating. Still we are not thoroughly organized, but still they're appreciating. They'll appreciate. One day will come they'll appreciate. And other parents, as they come and thank me, "Swamiji, it is our great fortune that..." Many parents came when I was in Los Angeles.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Pradyumna: "It is said here that the cows used to moisten the pasturing land with milk because their milk bags were fatty and the animals were joyful. Do they not require, therefore, proper protection for a joyful life by being fed with a sufficient quantity of grass in the field? Why should men kill cows for their selfish purposes? Why should men not be satisfied with grains, fruits and milk, which combined together can produce hundreds and thousands of palatable dishes? Why are there slaughterhouses all over the world to kill innocent animals? Mahārāja Parīkṣit, grandson of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, while touring his vast kingdom, saw a black man attempting to kill a cow. The king at once arrested the butcher and chastised him sufficiently. Should not a king or executive head protect the lives of the poor animals who are unable to defend themselves? Is this humanity? Are not the animals of a country citizens also? Then why are they allowed to be butchered in organized slaughterhouses? Are these the signs of equality, fraternity, and nonviolence? Therefore, in contrast with the modern, advanced, civilized form of government, an autocracy like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's is by far superior to a so-called democracy in which animals are killed and a man less than an animal is allowed to cast votes for another less-than-animal-man."

Prabhupāda: That's all (laughing) we have said. You can do one thing. You have got nim tree?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Take... I think you have got nim leaf dried?

Hari-śauri: Not since we've been in India. We've been using fresh nim leaves.

Prabhupāda: You have got stock?

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No. This is the nucleus of United Nations, real. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1), to understand everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. That is the basic principle of United Nation. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54), samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. In that stage there can be equality. Otherwise not.

Pañcadraviḍa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the text on the back of this magazine here, the back advertisement for the Gītā...

Prabhupāda: Here?

Pañcadraviḍa: ...is very nice wording. It's referring to India.

Prabhupāda: This. Oh, yes. This is the fact.

Brahmānanda: Headline. "This book is sacred to 650,000,000."

Prabhupāda: "650,000,000" means?

Brahmānanda: Indians.

Jayatīrtha: According to the books, that's the number of Hindus in the world. I wrote that text. That impresses people.