Prabhupāda: So everything is required for maintaining. So this gada, the club, and the disc is for punishing the disobedient, the demons, or those who are harassing devotees. To punish them the Viṣṇu-cakra is there. Just like Mahārāja Ambarīṣa, he was harassed by Durvāsā Muni, and Viṣṇu-cakra punished him sufficiently. Mahārāja Durvāsā... Mahārāja Ambarīṣa was a great king, but a great devotee at the same time. Because he was kṣatriya and householder, Durvāsā Muni, he was envious. Durvāsā Muni was brāhmaṇa and a great yogi. So he could not tolerate that a householder king... King is supposed to be dealing in politics, economics. Therefore, according to social position, he is lesser than the brāhmaṇa because they are simply engaged in the matter of transcendental advancement of life. But a devotee is above the brāhmaṇas. That is the position of devotee. Here, the highest qualitative position is to be situated in the modes of goodness or to acquire the qualities of brāhmaṇa, in this material world. Truthfulness, controlling the senses, controlling the mind, simplicity and knowledge, faith in God, there are so many qualifications which makes a person as recognized brāhmaṇa. But a devotee, never mind whether he's brāhmaṇa or a caṇḍāla, he automatically develop all these qualities.
Envious (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sammohāya sūra-dviṣam (SB 1.3.24). Sūra-dviṣam means atheists. Surat. Sura-dvisam means those who are envious of Lord's devotees. That means atheist. So to bewilder them. What is that bewildering? This atheist class, they became so much absorbed in this animal-killing, they forgot everything about God. So they said, "What is God? We don't mind." So Lord Buddha says, "Yes, there is no God." Lord's philosophy is: "There is no God. Void. There is no God. But what I say, you follow. Yes. That's all right." But he is God. Is it not cheating?
Allen Ginsberg: Yes, except that he claims to be neither God nor not God.
Prabhupāda: Huh? But he never said that "I am God." He said there is no God.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Revatīnandan: The magazine section. Two page particle with nice pictures. You liked it very much.
Prabhupāda: Oh, oh, yes, yes. I remember. She is envious, that "Why two page advertisement, publicity has been..." That's all.
Prabhupāda: That's all. That is their business. Rākṣasa, asura, miscreants, rogues, fools, rascals—that is their business. Envious. Because they are... If I say that "You have no eyes," that means indirectly I say that "You are blind." If I say that "You have no leg," indirectly I say, "You are lame." In this way, when I deny your senses, that means I am calling God by ill names that "You are blind. You are lame. You are headless. You are rascal," like that. And that is their prayer. Calling God by ill names, that is their prayer. What do you think, Girirāja?
Girirāja: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Sister Mary: We see that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So what you want more? Therefore let us cooperate. Don't think that it is against Christianism or it is sectarian. Let us cooperate fully. Jointly, let us preach all over the world, "Chant the holy name of God." Let us join together. That should be the real purpose of devotees of God. Here is... They are preaching love of God. Why should we be envious about them? It doesn't matter. We don't say that you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. If you have got name of God, you chant it. That's all. But we are preaching this cult, that chant the holy name of God. That's all. So what objection there may be from other sects? But they are envious. Because the younger generation are taking to it, so they are envious. Why they are envious? We wanted to purchase one church, and the priest in charge said that "I shall better burn this church. I shall not give them." Just see. Why? What we have done wrong? This is the very statement. "Better I shall burn this church, but I won't give them." Then? What we have done?
Sister Mary: Don't worry about that.
Devotee: Last, year, when we went to the police authorities for our procession here, and we wanted to make three rathas and the police officer, he was so envious, he said, "No. There is no law, we can put three rathas on the street." We said, "What is the harm? Won't you give us protection?" "So many people will be dying and killed under the ratha. If the ratha is so big and all that. People will be killed." I said, "They are big all over the world. This is for God consciousness."
Prabhupāda: So many people are dying by motor accidents, but do they stop motor car?
English guest: Do you think the situation will get better in London.
Devotee: Yes.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So keep this principle in view, that you have to become swan, not crows. They say that everyone, every religion is all the same. This is all nonsense. (indistinct) In Bhagavad-gītā there are different types of religion, sattvic, rajarsic, tamasic. And our this... If you take it as religion, this is transcendental. Sa vai puṁsām paro dharmo (SB 1.2.6). Paraḥ means transcendental, it is not ordinary, aparaḥ. In aparaḥ dharma, the materialistic dharma, there are ritualistic ceremonies how to make one perfect for accepting transcendental religion. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is directly putting oneself in the transcendental. That is the special (indistinct). Caitanya Mahāprabhu... (aside) Why don't you close it? Caitanya-caritāmṛta says, kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then it is to be supposed that you have finished all other types of religion. My Guru Maharaja used to cite one example that one's friend was sitting on the high-court judge's bench. So he was speaking to another, "Oh, that Panchu was playing with us naked. He is sitting on the high-court judge's bench. Oh, how he was playing with us naked, how he is seated in the high-court bench?" "Yes, I have seen, you have seen actually he is sitting." "Oh, then he must not be getting salary." He must not be getting salary. So this is the argument. Familiarity breeds contempt. So he cannot believe that he has become a high-court judge. He thinks that "I am a rascal fool and my friend, how he can become high-court judge? He must not be getting salary." But is that very good argument that the high-court judge is seated there without any salary? This argument is false(?). That is enviousness.
Prabhupāda: Anyone approaches Rādhārāṇī, She recommends to Kṛṣṇa, "Here is the best devotee. He's better than me." And Kṛṣṇa cannot refuse. That is best devotee. But it is not to be imitated, "I have become best devotee. Therefore I have stopped." That is... Actually, that is a different stage. So even the best devotee... Without (being) best devotee, he cannot preach actually, ācārya, but he comes to the second stage. Īśvare tad-adhīneṣu bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca. He has the vision of dviṣat, somebody envious of God. But it is not the vision of the best devotee. Best devotee sees, "Nobody is envious to God. Everyone is better than me." Just like Caitanya-caritāmṛta author, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja. He says that "I am lowest than the worm in the stool."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is ordinary duty. If you encroach upon my freedom, I have the right to kill you. That is recommended. That is clearly stated in the śāstras. If anyone sets fire in another's house, if anyone kidnaps his wife, if anyone takes his money—so many list—he is to be killed. There is no question. He can be killed immediately. That action-reaction is going on in the material world, that is a different thing. That is karma-bandha. But in devotion, there is no karma-bandha. As Kṛṣṇa is free from all reaction, similarly Kṛṣṇa's devotee who wants to satisfy Kṛṣṇa only, he is also free from all reaction. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān nāva-manyeta karhicit (SB 11.17.27). "The ācārya is as good as I am," Kṛṣṇa says. Nāva-manyeta karhicit, "Never neglect him." Na martya-buddhyāsūyeta, "Never be envious of the ācārya, thinking him as anything of this material world."
Bhūrijana: In the United States, the most amazing thing is that everyone is envious. The general population is envious of the hippies because they all want to do that. The ones who are working so hard, they want to be the ones who are just getting fed and do nothing and enjoy sex. But then when the hippies have it, they say bad things about them.
Prabhupāda: What is that? I could not...
Bhūrijana: The advancement of civilization is leading to just sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Material civilization means sense gratification. That's all.
Bhūrijana: So the hippies have this sense gratification and all the people who are working so hard, they are envious of them, and they use that for their advertising.
Prabhupāda: We say in our śāstras that this sense gratification facility is there to the hogs and dogs, better sense gratification. If you have to enjoy sex life, you'll have to find out some room. Either you go to a hotel or have your own apartment, otherwise you cannot have sex life on the street, although you are too much lusty. But you have to arrange for it. But the dogs and hogs, they have no such restriction. Immediately "Come on. Let us enjoy." So they are better, in better position for sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Just like my Guru Mahārāja did not travel all over the world, so I have got double energy than him. So you must triple energy, four times energy than me. Then actually disciple. My Godbrothers are envious because they could not do. They could not do even half of Guru Mahārāja's work, and I am doing ten times. So therefore they are envious. So if an ordinary man like me can do ten times, you are Americans-twenty times, then you are successful.
Prabhupāda: Even if you do that, the already one who has done it, why don't you give Him credit?
Devotee (1): Yeah, instead of being envious.
Prabhupāda: Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān (BG 16.19), they are envious, rascal. Envious means rascal. That is material quality. And spiritual quality means to praise good quality. "Oh, you are so nice, you have got so good quality." That is spiritual. And enviousness, "Oh, this man is surpassing me. All right, I..."
Devotee (1): Cut him down.
Prabhupāda: That's right. This is material. Matsaratā. This is explained in Bhāgavata as matsaratā. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vāstavaḥ vastu vedyam atra (SB 1.1.2).
Prabhupāda: And if we repeat that, what is our fault? (laughter) (Hindi) We say Kṛṣṇa says that "He is a rascal who does not surrender to Me." (laughs) Kṛṣṇa has chastised in so many places. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān (BG 16.19). "Those who are envious, like that, I put them in the darkest region of hellish conditions." (laughter) Kṛṣṇa says like that. Another place He says, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā: (BG 9.11) "A person who is rascal, he considers Me as ordinary human being." (break) Thank you very much. (indistinct conversation) (laughter) Very good. (laughs) Very nice.
Prabhupāda: No. These Europeans, Americans, if they take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they'll be more happy. That is assured. From all angles of vision-their family life, their political life, their social life, their cultural life, their religious life, their philosophical life, their scientific life—everything will be perfect. Now you have to teach them. I can give you the ideas how they'll be happy. The rascals, they do not know why, what is your specialness, and just to teach you this. My only ambition is that you are... (aside:) Oh, there is no water. You are supposed to be the most intelligent persons. (Prabhupāda drinks) So if you take, others will take. That is going on. So I have no distinction between East and West. They're thinking that East is conquering West by culture. That is their enviousness. (laughter) That is, they are afraid. Because the Britishers, they kept Indian culture suppressed so long because... (break) ...the kṣatriya, kings, in special cases. Not for public. Among the kṣatriyas. And among the vaiśyas, one day in a year, when they were allocated(?), to try one's luck. One day they'll bet. Not amongst the brāhmaṇas or the śūdras. Śūdras have no money to gamble, and brāhmaṇas prohibited. The kṣatriyas, they were also allowed in special cases, and the vaiśyas were allowed to engage in gambling one day in a year. That means restricted.
Prabhupāda: Rāma and Kṛṣṇa, the same. Rāma and Kṛṣṇa, the same. Kṛṣṇa means Viṣṇu-tattva. So Viṣṇu-tattva has many forms. So any Viṣṇu form will do.
- rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā niyamena tiṣṭhan
- nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu
- kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo
- govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
- (Bs. 5.39)
Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu. He has got different forms, Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha, many other forms, Govinda, Viṣṇu, Nārāyaṇa. So rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā niyamena tiṣṭhan nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu, kṛṣṇaḥ svayam (Bs. 5.39). Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). These are the Vedic statements. And Kṛṣṇa also said, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā, mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ (BG 9.4). Everything is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore to become wise after many, many births of struggling or cultivating knowledge, when one comes to perfection of knowledge he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. So therefore one who surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, he is the most perfect man, even without knowing Kṛṣṇa. Just like gopīs. They did not know Kṛṣṇa, whether He is God or some... Simply loved Kṛṣṇa: "Kṛṣṇa is very beautiful." That's all. So their perfection is the highest. They did not try to understand what Kṛṣṇa, what is Vedānta, what is Bhagavad-gītā. At that time Bhagavad-gītā was not spoken even. Kṛṣṇa was at that time a boy. But they loved Kṛṣṇa with their heart and soul. Kṛṣṇa was their everything. And therefore their position is the topmost. So somehow or other, we have to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Then our life is successful. Otherwise not. So we do it knowingly or unknowingly; the effect is the same. Fire you touch knowingly or unknowingly; it will act. It is not that if a child touches fire without knowing, knowledge, it is not that fire will not burn. And similarly... That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Kāmāt krodhād bhayāt. Some way or other, come to Kṛṣṇa. Just like gopīs came to Kṛṣṇa-kāmāt. Kṛṣṇa was very beautiful, so they wanted to associate with Kṛṣṇa. Bhayāt, Kaṁsa and Śiśupāla, they were afraid of Kṛṣṇa, but still, they became Kṛṣṇa conscious, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Bhayāt. Krodhāt. Śiśupāla, krodhāt. He was very much envious of Kṛṣṇa.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa, if you cannot meet Kṛṣṇa, you can meet with Kṛṣṇa's representative. Kṛṣṇa may not be physically present, but His representative is physically present. You can talk with him. That is the system of Bhagavad-gītā. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Paramparā. Kṛṣṇa says that "I talked with the sun-god." Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). "First of all I talked with the sun-god." Vivasvān manave prāha. "Then he talked with his son, Manu. Then Manu talked with Ikṣvāku. In this way..." Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam, there is a disciplic succession. So if you can be in touch with that disciplic succession, then Kṛṣṇa's representative is there. If you talk with the Kṛṣṇa's representative, then you talk with Kṛṣṇa. Just like in office, there are different departments, and the, there is a man, departmental-in-charge. So if you can talk with that departmental-in-charge, if you can please him, that means you are pleasing the proprietor or director. There is no doubt. Because he is representative. So physically you may not meet Kṛṣṇa, but in higher stage, you can meet. But accepting that you cannot..., but He, you have to be in contact with His representative. That is coming in disciplic succession. Then you talk with Kṛṣṇa. It is not difficult. The ācāryas are there. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyām. Kṛṣṇa says. "All the ācāryas," māṁ vijānīyām, "they are Myself." Nāvamanyeta karhicit, "Never disregard ācārya." Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyāṁ nāvaman..., na martya-buddhyāsūyeta "Do not be envious: 'How he can be? He's ordinary man.
Guest (1) (Indian man): But they are very... I am very envious of them.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest (1): I am very envious of them because they have got this guru's grace on them.
Prabhupāda: (Chuckling) Yes.
Guest (1): This guru's grace is working. It is invisible, you see. This is all-powerful.
Prabhupāda: No, you can get also, provided you take it. (laughter) Guru is not miser. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: They are very dangerous. So if vṛścika and sarpa is killed, nobody's unhappy. (break) ...in Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, sarpaḥ krūraḥ khalaḥ krūraḥ, sarpāt krūrataraḥ khalaḥ. A jealous, envious man, he's also crooked, and the snake, it is also crooked. But the man practiced to jealousy is more dangerous than the snake. Why? "He's human being. He's still more dangerous?" "Yes." "Why?" Mantrauṣadhi-vaśaḥ sarpaḥ. You can bring under control the snake by mantra and drugs. Khalaḥ kena nivāryate. And the jealous man cannot be subdued. Therefore he's more dangerous than the snake.
Prabhupāda: No. Just like Dr. Bose's laboratory. So Dr. Bose's laboratory, I was manager. Then I took his agency, very good terms. I was earning money like anything. But the next manager, he became envious. He began to poison Dr. Bose, to cut off our relationship. So it happened. Then, when I was Dr. Bose's agent, I become so much famous that Bengal Chemical, the biggest chemical factory, he, they wanted to give me the agency. If I would have taken that agency, I would have been the richest man in the chemical world. You see. But they made some condition. So I did not accept it. I wanted in my condition. That is the very little... But I was puffed-up, that "I am such a big... And this man is flattering. So I must get my condition fulfilled." So I did not accept it. The Smith Stanstreet gave me agency. Because in my work, in Dr. Bose's laboratory, I did it very creditably. So every other manufacturers, they became attracted to me, how to get me. The Smith Stanstreet Company, Bikepala(?) Company, Bose's, Bengal Chemical Company, they all wanted me. And I thought, "Oh, everyone wants me." So, so I refused. And later on there was a clique between Dr. Bose and me. So I lost everything. Then I started my own laboratory.
Prabhupāda: Smith Stanstreet, an English company. They gave me an agency. So some of my enemy... He was my, he was my employer, but he gave information that I am also manufacturing now, drug and chemical works. So they informed them that "He's pushing his own goods, not your goods." They... He wanted that agency. Yes. In this way, because as soon as you come in the... Even in the spiritual field, my godbrothers are envious. You see? So as soon as you become successful, there will be many enemies. That is natural. That is the sign of success. In your business, if there are many enemies, competitor, that means you are successful. So anyway, Kṛṣṇa has brought me to the right path. So I may not fall down. That's all. (laughter) When I was reading this verse, that yasyāham anugṛhnāmi hariṣye tad dhanaṁ śanaiḥ (SB 10.88.8), Kṛṣṇa said that "When I show somebody My special favor, I take away all his money," I became shuddered, "So Kṛṣṇa will take my all money? If He's..." And actually that happened. He took my all money, all family, all friends and everything. (laughs) And He asked me, "Go to America. You'll get many money, much money, many friends. You go ahead, Come here." Yes. That was His intention. And I was sticking to limited money, limited friends, limited society. This is special favor.
Bali Mardana: It's their envious attitude. They are envious.
Prabhupāda: No, no. It is not the question of envious. Because you are thinking that He is inconceivable, because you cannot say... But how can you say that another person cannot say? There are so many things I do not know. That does not mean that somebody else does not know. You may not know. Your experience is not mature. But how you can say, "Another person cannot have the experience"? So that is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā, vedāhaṁ samatītāni, māṁ tu veda na kaścana: (BG 7.26) "I know everything, but nobody knows Me." There is the answer. So nobody knows Kṛṣṇa. That's a fact. But Kṛṣṇa reveals Himself to the devotee.
Bali Mardana: Wireless, radio.
Prabhupāda: Yes, radio. That was Jagadisha Candra Bose's discovery. But the government will not give the credit to the Indians. Because Jagadisha Candra Bose happened to be Indian. These Britishers they are so much envious. Therefore they will never admit that Bhagavad-gītā was spoken five thousand years ago. They bring all within the Christian period. That is their rascaldom.
Jayādvaita: We went to a college and gave a class last week where the professor was saying that the Bhagavad-gītā is only two thousand years old, like that.
Prabhupāda: No, no, we are not envious of the demons. Otherwise there is no need of preaching. We are trying to make the demons perfect. That is our preaching.
Devotee: Compassionate.
Prabhupāda: Ah? Yes. Compassion.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We are preaching that the human form of life is the most important form of any living entities.
Prabhupāda: Ah?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That human form of life...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hṛdayānanda: So it just enviousness. They're just envious.
Prabhupāda: Foolishness. Enviousness means one must be able. But they are not able. Simply foolishness.
Bali Mardana: They have created artificial gems, like...
Prabhupāda: Just like you are a powerful man. I am a powerful man. I become envious. That is allowed. But I'm not powerful, I'm trying to imitate you, it is foolishness.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they're saying that God didn't give me all the knowledge to do, how to make this water.
Prabhupāda: Because He wanted you to remain a fool. He wanted. Because you are atheist, He wanted that you shall remain ever fool. That is God's business. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān yoniṣu (BG 16.19). These atheistic class, they remain always fools. Kṛṣṇa gives him birth in such a family, in such a country, in such a posi..., that he remains fools. He remains always fool. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Yaśomatīnandana: English car, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Rolls Royce. Not only English, you could not. (laughter) You could not, but he has done. Sometimes Śyāmasundara is envious of Karandhara. Now, just see what is the difference. He has taken twenty thousand dollars. He cannot pay.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes, you do it. Do it. That is intelligence. Here is the only systematic way to understand God. You simply try to understand the first verse of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Then everything is explained there. Now you can... I have explained that, what is meant by God. God means the source of everything. Where is that theologician who can deny it? The first proposition is "God is that which is the source of everything." Now the next question will be, "What is that source, animate or inanimate?" Just like the scientists, they are claiming matter. This should be discussed. Then you come to the conclusion, "He must be animate." Then next question is "Wherefrom the animation came?" Then the conclusion should be that "He is self-sufficient. There is no need of cause." Then "Why people cannot understand?" That answer is that "Even great, great personality like Brahmā, Indra, they also bewildered." In this way, everything is there in that verse, systematical. Yatra tri-sargo 'mṛṣā. Now this material world is also creation of God, but it is shadow; it is not reality. The reality is where there is no illusion, and that is spiritual kingdom. That is the place of God. Everything is there in that verse in the beginning. And then next verse is, the so-called religions, they are kicked out from this Bhāgavatam. The religion is God is great and everyone should worship Him. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsara...(SB 1.1.2). And it is meant for the first-class non-envious person. One who is envious, he will think, "Oh, why shall I worship God?" He cannot. One who is non-envious, he understands that "God is great always. I am always subordinate.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: The storekeepers, they inquire. They're envious, that "How these people enjoying life without earning, without working hard?" Now whole Bombay is surprised when you purchased this land.
Prabhupāda: This is adveṣṭā. (break) ...envious of Christian.
Dr. Patel: Nirmamo nirahaṅkāraḥ sama-duḥkha-sukhaḥ...
Prabhupāda: Why you should be?
Dr. Patel: ...santuṣṭaḥ satataṁ yogī yatātmā dṛḍha-niścayaḥ, mayy-arpita-mano-buddhir (BG 8.7).
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: For your good. For your good. Even if I fire you, for your good.
Dr. Patel: (laughing) I was able to come to this point. That is why I asked them to arrange for this meeting. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...father fires son, it is not envious. Adveṣṭā, he... That is adveṣṭā.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break) There is no mercy. If he says, "No, no. I shall, I shall rub over your belly and it will be cured," is that the means? It must go on, operation, surgical operation. That is treatment. If you become kind, "No, no, no, it is very difficult. I will give him something. It will cure," That is not treatment. (Hindi) (break) Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram āsurīṣv eva yoniṣu (BG 16.19). No mercy. "You surrender. Otherwise, if you are envious, then I am sending you to the darkest region of ignorance." (break) (Hindi) (break) ...after, you are quitting?
Prabhupāda: Just see. Ahiṁsā means he's envious of Kṛṣṇa. He's envious. Not ahiṁsā. His hiṁsā begins that "Why Kṛṣṇa should alone be God? I am also God."
Dr. Patel: Kṣāntiḥ...
Prabhupāda: So the hiṁsā begins from the Supreme. So all negative. These Māyāvādīs, they are hiṁsā, they are proud, they have no sense of what is amānitvam. This is Māyāvāda philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sarge. Those who have come to this material world, they are envious of Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: Iccha-dveṣa-samutthena.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Iccha-dveṣa... They... "Why shall I serve Kṛṣṇa? I shall become Kṛṣṇa." This is iccha-dveṣa.
Dr. Patel: Is that so because of the reason of not understanding Kṛṣṇa, they go on...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Kṛṣṇa is enjoyer. Just like a big businessman, and his secretary is working under him. So he sometimes thinks, "Why shall I work under him? Why not become another Birla like him?" That is the fall down. He's happy there, becoming secretary of a big man, but he gives up the job and tries himself and becomes a vagabond. That's all. This is the position.
Dr. Patel: Anasūyave, one who is not cajoling against God.
Prabhupāda: No. One who is not envious. A person generally... All conditioned souls, they are envious of God, envious. "Why He should be God? I am God. I am God." So Arjuna is not like that person. Therefore he is speaking to Arjuna. He is devotee. In the Fourth Chapter also, He said bhakto 'si priyo 'si (BG 4.3). Therefore Kṛṣṇa does not expose Himself unless one is devotee. This is first qualification. So to understand Bhagavad-gītā one must be a devotee. The so-called jñānī, yogis, they cannot understand. It is not possible, because they are trying to become God. Although it is simply dream, they can never become, but they are envious, that "Why Kṛṣṇa should be God? I have got so many gods." Anasūyave.
Prabhupāda: Yes, better field, those who are innocent. That is the duty of the preacher, four things: īśvare tad-adhīneṣu baliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca. The preacher should see four things. First of all īśvara, the Supreme Person, God. So that vision must be there. He knows what is īśvara or the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then tad-adhīneṣu, those who have taken shelter of that īśvara. That means devotees. Tad-adhīneṣu. And then baliśeṣu. Baliśeṣu means those who are innocent, have no sufficient knowledge, innocent. And dviṣatsu. And there is always a class of men who are envious of God, dviṣat. Dviṣat means envious. So preacher has to see these four classes of men or three classes. One, īśvara, and the other three classes. So he has to behave like that. To behave with īśvara-prema, how to love. That is his business. How to increase love for the Supreme. Prema. Maitrī, how to make friendship with the devotee. And to the innocent-kṛpā, how to become merciful. And to the envious-upekṣa, negligence, not to talk with them. Four behavior. Īśvare tad-a... This is madhyama adhikārī. And the position of the preacher is madhyama adhikārī. Therefore they have to point out, "Here is a jealous man, envious man." But people do not want it. They say, "Why you are pointing out? Why you are pointing out?" But this is business of the preacher. Otherwise how he will preach?
Girirāja: They want to be artificially the uttama adhikārī, to see everyone as nice.
Prabhupāda: Demons are known as sura-dviṣām, sura-dviṣām, those who are envious of the demigods, sura-dvisa. Sammohāya sura-dviṣām (SB 1.3.24). This word is used in the Bhāgavata: "just to cheat the demons," sammohāya sura-dviṣām. (break) That is the instruction of Nārada. You see? Then?
Girirāja: "Within the prison, shackled in iron chains, Vasudeva and Devakī gave birth to a male child year after year. Kaṁsa, thinking each of the babies to be the incarnation of Viṣṇu, killed them one after another."
Prabhupāda: Yes. He killed his brother. He was merciful upon the father only, kept him in the prison. Otherwise he killed the whole family—brother, brother's son and everyone. (break) ...present kings, such incidences are very many in the history, killing everyone. There is another story that Pana, Pana?
Yaśomatīnandana: Panavada.(?)
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...becomes envious of others, they take birth as dogs, snake, sarpa krūra khala krūra. So much subtle laws are working. They do not know.
Yaśomatīnandana: Their limited intelligence.
Prabhupāda: Limited intelligence, yes. (break)
Yaśomatīnandana: ...nirmatsarāṇām.
Prabhupāda: Ah, paramo nirmatsarāṇām satāṁ vāstavya vastu vedyam atra (SB 1.1.2). Not for anyone. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām. That means devotees. Devotees are nirmatsarā, not envious. Otherwise everyone is envious. (break) ...like a vehicle like this. In U.P. there is, called tanga.
Prabhupāda: So they are now envious. (break) Abaddha karuṇā sindhu, katiya mohan, abaddha karuṇā sindhu, katiya mohan... That "All men, you take..." "Nityānanda has cut open the stagnant water, and now it is overflooded." Like that. Abaddha karuṇā sindhu... (break) Caitanya Mahāprabhu also said,
- pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma
- sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma
- (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126)
- that this is business. Not that pṛthivī loka will come. You have to go and preach.
Prabhupāda: ...double feature is not understood by the Māyāvādīs. If Kṛṣṇa has created the whole, so why he should be separate? He is not separate, still separate. (break) ...regularly this book Kṛṣṇa, he will be liberated, simply by reading this book.
Girirāja: (break) "...narration of the Kāliya serpent and his punishment will need fear no more the envious activities of snakes. The Lord also declared, 'If one takes a bath in the Kāliya lake where My cowherd boyfriends and I have bathed, or if one, fasting for a day, offers oblations to the forefathers from the water of this lake, he will be relieved from all kinds of sinful reaction.' " (break)
Bhāgavata: ...actually are devotees or how do they become demons? Are they devotees? Obviously Kāliya is... Just like Jaya and Vijaya, they were devotees. And due to some offense, then they became demons and they fought with Kṛṣṇa to satisfy Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Anyone who is living in this material world is a demon. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Where is your mother?
Indian Lady: She is at home.
Bhāgavata: But only certain demons get to fight with Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is special demon.
Prabhupāda: She was a prostitute. She was a prostitute but engaged in Kaṁsa's service. In India the prostitutes are engaged as maidservants in respectable houses still. During daytime they serve in some house, and at night they become prostitute. There are many prostitutes. One prostitute, when we were boys, she was coming to serve my mother as a lady barber. There is lady barber, for serving the ladies. And at night she was standing as prostitute. (break) ...a good relation with the neighborhood. There was no enviousness. "She is doing her own business. That's all."
Prabhupāda: Well, Chamberlain may tried, might have tried to stop the war, but he could not stop the cause of the war. So far we know that the two wars started by Germany on account of Britain. So far I have studied. The German people did not like the Britishers to occupy the trade all over the world. And wherever they went to trade, they were restricting. I know this fact. In India the Britishers monopolized all trade, and they would not allow German goods to come in. So that was the cause of the war. The German knew that the Britishers, they are purchasing from Germany and stamping it "Made in London" and selling in India at high price. And when the Germans go there, they are not allowed to enter. This is the cause of the war. The Germans still, they do not like to speak in English. They are so envious. So Chamberlain might have tried to stop war, but his nation created the cause of the war. Why there should be... That was the demand, that free trade. Germans, in the, what is called, peace negotiation, their demand was free trade. Everyone... And that is very good. Why trade should be... This is unnatural. Let there be free trade. General public, they want best thing at good price, at cheap price. So if Japan and Germany can supply goods, necessary goods, at cheaper price, why they should be restricted? Let the people take advantage of it.
Bhagavān: Because they have no spiritual idea or spiritual pleasure, they can never be satisfied. So they're always envious.
Prabhupāda: So there is no coconut tree, mango tree, banana tree. Huh? These are all useless tree, simply for becoming fuel. That's all. They're also condemned. Yes. Sinful trees. There are pious trees and sinful trees. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... (pause) We have to go straight? (pause) This park is bigger than that Golden Gate Park?
Bhagavān: Oh yeah.
Prabhupāda: Eh? (pause)
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa says that "One who is always active within is very dear to Me." Does this mean we should struggle to keep our minds engaged all the time in Kṛṣṇa's service.
Prabhupāda: Active within? Active within?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: "Active within."
Prabhupāda: ...that if we remain rascals, then that Gaurasundara's example will be followed. One day you'll again become crazy and close up everything and smoke. That's all. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, prāṇa arthe yaṅra sei hetu pracāra. "One who has got life, he can preach." The dead man cannot preach. So you become with life, not like dead man. Without life... Just like all my godbrothers. They are dead men. And therefore they are envious of my activities. They have no life. If you want to make easy-going life, showing the Deity and then sleep, then it is a failure movement.
Devotee (1): "Without envy"?
Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole world is envious, whole world. I am envious of you, you are envious of me. That Bhāgavata is not meant for such envious persons. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2), those who are no more envious. How they will have a devotee envious? He loves Kṛṣṇa and in relationship with Kṛṣṇa loves everyone. In that position, in that state, one will not try to suppress another. Otherwise, it is material life. To live at the cost of others, to suppress one, to take other's money and become rich. There is story in the Aesop's Fable that—you perhaps know it—that a dog took the flesh in his mouth and was crossing a river, and the shadow was in the water. So he thought there is another dog with the flesh, so he wanted to..., he lost this, and that was a shadow. So he has got a flesh in his mouth, but he is an animal, it was deluded that "Another dog is carrying, so I shall take." So even in the cats and dogs, this tendency is there. Even the cats and dogs, they are also. So how can you stop it? That will be not stopped. They do not know. Therefore, these theories, they are simply theories; they are not practical. They do not know what is the nature, how nature is working.
Devotee (1): Her poetry was just like the braying of the ass.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Thinking, simply imagining that they shall be happy in this way. And accusing others. You cannot become happy in that way, that he will accuse, "He is the cause. He is the impediment of my perfect happiness." Envious, the same enviousness.
Devotee (2): Therefore, let me eliminate you.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Same enviousness. Nirmatsarata(?). Yayā sammohito jīva.
Prabhupāda: It will go on like that. In America (indistinct), why you are envious of me? That disease is there. His enviousness is a different quality. Actually, comparing with America, the people are more happy in America, not in Russia. It's a fact. I have seen it. They are terrorized, no freedom. So everyone is terrorized, they must be. What is that? Is that life? I have to live under terrorism conditions. I must do it. (indistinct). It is not life.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Nothing belongs to you. Why should you claim it is yours? They are claiming North America "ours," South America "ours." So how it became yours? It was already there, and you came as a immigrant, and it becomes yours? (break) Karmīs, they are claiming, "It is our property." And the jñānīs, they are living that "This is mithyā," and give it up. Both of them in the wrong. It is created by somebody, how you can say mithyā, false? Māyāvādī says, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "The whole cosmic manifestation is false." How it is false? And karmīs, they are claiming unnecessarily, "It is mine." Creator is different person, and he is claiming, "mine". That is also false.
Hṛdayānanda: So they are both envious of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: They do not know Kṛṣṇa. Foolish.
Devotee (2): They see us distributing, and they don't like what we're doing, they get very angry, but still, they're thinking of Kṛṣṇa all day. We often wondered how they are benefiting even though they maintain this very envious...
Devotee (1): Just like the Mohammedans were benefited.
Prabhupāda: They say, "Here is the Kṛṣṇa man." So he utters the name of Kṛṣṇa. That is good for him.
Devotee (2): And then after a while, when they become our friends, then they may stop and listen to us.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because he has chanted Kṛṣṇa, "Here is the Kṛṣṇa man. Here is the rascal Kṛṣṇa man." (laughter)
Tripurāri: We found one policeman at the Atlanta airport was always harassing the devotees, trying to stop them. And one time I came down the stairs and I saw him in the corner reading Īśopaniṣad and trying to understand. They know that we have some knowledge; they are just envious of our success. They want to find out, "What is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness about?" They don't want to admit that they want to know. Actually everyone wants to know about Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they must.
Prabhupāda: This complaint from the members is not at all good. If somebody becomes envious, he can file a suit that "These men have collected money from me, eh, but not supplied books."
Jayatīrtha: They sign a document we also sign.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jayatīrtha: We sign one document when they become a member.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: So for colonialism.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just to... Because there are other powers, so they are envious that "Why these rascals, they occupy India?" So, so just to support this occupation, I mean to say, yes, occupation, and..., they made so many propaganda. Even during Gandhi's movement, they engaged one American woman to write a book "Mother India." "Mother India." "Mother India." So the... In... That "Mother India" is simply full of stories where there are so defects. Suppose a priest in the temple is attached with some woman, like that, so many stories like... So one Punjabi, what is his name? Gobha, (?) Gobha. He counteracted that book—"Uncle Sam." (laughter) So these things are going on.
Tamal-kṛṣṇa: The drain inspectors?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sewage inspector report. These things will go on. So long people will remain in darkness about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, these things, rubbish things, will go on. I'll find out fault in you; you'll find out fault in me. That's all. Because the basic principle of material civilization is envy. I do not like you; you do not like me. That's all. Envy. Everywhere, individually, nationally, socially, familywise—everyone is envious. That is the material disease. And therefore in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇam (SB 1.1.2). Those who are interested in superfluous religious system, cheating system of religion... Just like the Christians, they say that "Christ has taken contract for all our sinful activities."
Madhudviṣa: You were talking about enviousness, Śrīla Prabhupāda. And we see that this even sometimes pervades in our own society.
Prabhupāda: Because you have, you are not yet perfect. That means. You are not yet perfect. You are trying to be perfect. Now be perfect.
Madhudviṣa: Is there a way, is there a specific way to counteract this bad quality of enviousness?
Prabhupāda: And yes, just chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Cleanse your mind. All dirty things will go. Because you neglect to chant regularly, therefore the dirty things remain.
Pañcadraviḍa: One devotee was talking with a Māyāvādī sannyāsī, famous sannyāsī. So he said that "Your desire to attain mukti, that is a material desire."
Prabhupāda: No, we don't want mukti.
Paramahaṁsa: Usually people don't have a very clear idea of what spiritual life is. So when they see someone who is a good musician or a good artist or something like that, sometimes they automatically think, "Oh, he must be spiritual, because he is so good at this. No one else can do it. He must be some spiritual power." So therefore someone like Ravi Shankar, a lot of people either they become envious or they worship him as being an incarnation or something like that.
Prabhupāda: That is also stated, yad yad vibhūtimat sattvaṁ.
Paramahaṁsa: (in car) Because so many of them are saying that "I am God," they become envious of one another, and then they fight and expose each other.
Prabhupāda: Competition. God's competition.
Paramahaṁsa: Yes. And then everyone can see that they are simply materialists.
Prabhupāda: Not only he, but there are many others claim to become God. All of them should be brought into the court.
Paramahaṁsa: Didn't Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura do that once?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Very nice gardens. Hardly there is such nice botanical gardens in the world. I have seen many botanical... Very nice. (break) This swan is black and the crow is black, but crow's place is different, their place is different, although they are birds. The crows will enjoy a filthy place where all refuses are thrown. I don't think in your country there is many crows. In India, you've seen, all nasty place, that is visited by the crows. It is stated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo jagat-pavitraṁ pragṛṇīta karhicit, tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham (SB 1.5.10). The literature which does not describe Kṛṣṇa, that is the place for the crows. There is sex literature, they're enjoyed by the crows, and this Bhāgavatam is enjoyed by the swans. That is the difference. Crow's literature and swan's literature, paramahaṁsa. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vāstavaṁ vastu vedyam atra (SB 1.1.2). Everyone in this material world, they're envious. Their business is to become envious. I am envious of you, you are envious of me. This is material world. And the paramahaṁsas, Vaiṣṇava, they're kind, they're merciful. "Ah, this fallen soul is suffering for want of Kṛṣṇa. Let us preach." That is the difference. The envious and the nonenvious. That is paramahaṁsa. Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ (SB 3.25.21). They are not only not envious, but they're merciful. They'll suffer so many troubles for their preaching work, still they'll do that. Titikṣava. A preacher has to suffer so many inconvenience.
Prabhupāda: Therefore in Bhagavad-gītā it is said, idaṁ te na atapaskāya. Those who have no life of penance and austerities, don't talk with them. It will be a waste of time. You know that there is verse in the Bhagavad-gītā? In Eighteenth Chapter. Idaṁ te na atapaskāya, māṁ ca yaḥ abhyasūyati: "Persons who are envious of Me and those who have not undergone austerity and penances, don't talk with them." But we take the risk. We go even to these rascals. Because for Kṛṣṇa's sake, "Never mind, it will take some time. Let me try this rascal." Therefore the easiest process is that every rascal will agree to take nice food and dance. So induce them to come to us, dance, and take nice food. Let them come on this ground. And by hearing Hare Kṛṣṇa, gradually they will be all right. This is the policy. So far argument, logic, philosophy is concerned, they are beyond... Because they are animal. They cannot understand.
Prabhupāda: But they are so sinful that they are unable to carry out. Upadeśo hi mūrkhāṇāṁ prakopāya na śāntaye. If there is a serpent, if you advise him, "Please do not kill; be gentleman," will be become? Snake. Snake will kill, unnecessarily bite and kill. Sarpaḥ krūraḥ khalaḥ krūraḥ sarpāt krūrataraḥ khalaḥ: "There are two envious living entities. One is the serpent and other is the envious man. So the envious man is more dangerous than the serpent." Why? Now, the serpent can be charmed by drugs and by mantra, but this man cannot be charmed. So this advice will not act. They are so dangerous than the serpent.
Prabhupāda: Balance is that you should be reciprocal exchange. What you haven't got, you give me; what I haven't got, I give you. This should be the process of exchange. Then the world will be united. When there is exchange of gifts. But our India followed the principle for begging. "Give me men. Give me money. Give me wheat. Give me rice. Give me war materials." Simply begging. So we must give something. This is the first time we are giving something. Otherwise, India was a beggar simply to the western countries. For their technical education they are going to the western countries, and when there is war, they are asking America, "Please give us war materials." And when they give war materials to Pakistan we become envious. But you are also taking rice, ḍāl for this(?). So why should you remain beggar?
Bali-mardana: Previously people believed in the personal idea, but now they have become very envious. They have tried to get rid of it.
Prabhupāda: More demons. Because with the progress of so-called civilization, people are becoming more and more demons, so they cannot understand. Mūḍhā nābhijānāti. Mūḍhā, he cannot understand. That is the difficulty. More dull-headed, less intelligent persons are coming. Just see. Formerly there was no skyscraper building. Now they are thinking "So long this body is there, let us enjoy." And the..., in the body, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāra... (BG 2.13). But the soul is within the body—there is no care. And that he is going to become a dog next life, but he is satisfied that "This life I have got this skyscraper building." That's all.
Prabhupāda: We are not doing business? We are doing the best business. You are working hard day and night, and without working, we are living comfortably. They cannot dream of. (break) ...is their envy, that "These people, without doing anything they are living so comfortably. And we are working so hard day and night." (break) Yes, this is envious. (break) He is searching some fish?
Prabhupāda: Yes, this place is for unhappiness. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find this place, the material world, has been described as duḥkhālayam. Duḥkhālayam means the place of miseries. So how you... If the place is made for miseries, how you can make this place as full of pleasure, if God made like that? Just like if you are put into the prison house and if you want to live very comfortably, is it possible? Prison house is meant for giving you trouble so that you may be rectified, no more stealing, not to become criminal. It is meant for punishment. Similarly, this whole material world is meant for punishing these criminals who wanted to enjoy independently God's property. They are all criminals. We are worshiping the best nationalist, who is thinking in terms that "This place is mine," philanthropist or political leader. But actually, he is a thief because he is claiming God's property as his own. He is a criminal. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-loka-maheśvaram: "I am the proprietor of all the planets, all the universes." Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām: (BG 5.29) "I am the friend of all living entities." But these people, they are claiming that... The leader is claiming, "I am the friend," and he is claiming, "I am the proprietor." They are, therefore, criminal. He is not friend. Just like your president. He is not friend of the countrymen. So this is the position of the most exalted man, and what to speak of the ordinary man? Nobody is friend. All enemies. Therefore I am envious of you, you are envious of me.
Prabhupāda: Negroes are envious of the white men.
Jayatīrtha: Yes. In Detroit every year one out of every five hundred people is murdered.
Prabhupāda: White man?
Jayatīrtha: White men and black men. Usually black men are murdering.
Prabhupāda: What is the reason? The same feeling as in India, Hindu Muslim. But it is not so strong.
Prabhupāda: (To Bon:) "You are also not tolerant. Why you have come here? Because you are envious. You are the most intolerant. You are blaspheming."
Satsvarūpa: Yes. He also said that on the altar in Toronto... It's an altar just like in all our temples. He said, "Lord Caitanya should not be there with Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa." They have them separated like...
Prabhupāda: Why? My Guru Mahārāja have so many Māyāpur temples, Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Brahmānanda: All the Gauḍīya temples, they all have...
Bhāvānanda: Yogapīṭha has.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere.
Woman: Yesterday I met a devotee from New York who said that there were many people present at the festival from other planets and that you could see them. Is that true?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Everyone can see. If you have eyes, you can see also. But if you have no eyes, therefore you are envious because they have offered a nice motor car. So you have to make your eyes to see. A blind man cannot see. The eyes are to be treated how to see.
Prabhupāda: So Bhagavad-gītā, last instruction is sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. (BG 18.66) "You give up all kinds of occupation and just surrender unto Me." If one can take it very seriously, understand, then he can enter into the study of Bhāgavatam. The Bhāgavatam begins from the point where Kṛṣṇa left Bhagavad-gītā. So he advised that "You surrender to Me," and Bhāgavata begins, satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi (SB 1.1.1), "I am worshiping the Supreme Truth." And next verse is dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2), "All cheating type of religious system is rejected." So this is rather revolting. Kṛṣṇa says sarva dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), "Give up all kinds of religious system, just surrender to Me." And from that point Bhāgavata begins, "All cheating type of religious system is rejected." It is meant for the paramahaṁsa. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ. Those who are envious, for them is not Bhāgavata. So any materialistic person, he is envious. It is not meant for the materialistic person. Those who are spiritually advanced, one who has understood that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul, my direct connection is with God, therefore my only business is to serve God." One who has come to this conclusion, he is called paramahaṁsa. Haṁsa means swan. A swan, it has got a quality that if you give the swan to drink milk mixed with water, she will drink the milk and reject the water. She has got the capacity. So paramahaṁsa means one who has taken the essence of the existence, Absolute Truth, he is called paramahaṁsa.
Prof. Hopkins: So you would see the Bhagavad-gītā then as accessible to a wide range of people, at an elementary level or beginning level, whereas Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam would be for more advanced, more advanced people.
Prabhupāda: Not only advanced, completely advanced. Because so long one will be, stay on the material platform, he will be envious of others only, animal propensity, dog. Dog does not like another dog is coming. So unless one is spiritually realized, the dog mentality will remain there. It is said nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam, even amongst the topmost thinkers, if he does not refute other thinkers, he is not a good thinker. That enviousness. He will not be established a good thinker if he cannot... If a scientist, if he cannot refute the previous scientist, he is not a scientist. This is material world. Everyone is envious of the other. So Bhāgavata meant for who is no more envious. Simply loving.
Bahulāśva: That is why they become mad because they become envious that we are chanting and dancing. They are working very hard.
Paramahaṁsa: They won't join.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they asked in Los Angeles that "How is that? You do not work and you are living so comfortably?" They are envious. And the greatest economist, Professor Marshall, he has said that if man gets money, automatically he will not work. That is the basic prin... Therefore they are creating daily new invention.
business, or when will you learn to become a doctor, if you are always studying..."
Prabhupāda: But you are doctor already. Why shall I become doctor? You serve me. We serve you by giving you Kṛṣṇa consciousness; you serve me as a doctor. What is the wrong there? Parasparārtham. I am for you; you are for me. Division of labor, that is accepted universally. So ask them, "Do you think that everyone should become doctor? Then where is the patient?" Eh? Everything is required. Similarly, you require our help also. It is cooperation. You know medical science; we know spiritual science. So let us exchange and be happy. Why you are envious of us? Why there is division in the body—head, arms, legs, belly? Why not everything head or everything leg? Why there is divided? That is nature. It is required. Why this road is neglected?
Mādhavānanda: It's mismanagement.
Prabhupāda: My Godbrother says-Tīrtha Mahārāja—that American government has given me two crores of rupees. They are supposed to be spiritually advanced, and they are so rascal. And he is the head of Caitanya Matha. Kṛṣṇa said, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham: (BG 9.22) "I take the responsibility of his expenditure." Kṛṣṇa says, and they are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and they are thinking, "American government is doing, not Kṛṣṇa." Such fools and rascals, they are head of..., a spiritual head. Karmīs, jñānīs—everyone is envious of our... And they are trying to speculate how to admit: "Where he gets money? Where he gets money?"
Harikeśa: That man in San Francisco? The photographer? He was always trying to take pictures of your rings and always trying to take pictures of all the rich things on the altar. He was trying to make a story like that. They try to show that you are enjoying.
Satsvarūpa: The karmīs are also envious that we are very happy, that we are looking forward to a next life. They... Because they don't have that faith...
Prabhupāda: They have no hope.
Satsvarūpa: They are envious.
Prabhupāda: Actually they have no hope because they are going to degenerate to become dog, cats, trees, then lost.
Satsvarūpa: So they try to tell us, "Oh, that is just mythology, what you are following," because they are envious.
Brahmānanda: In Dr. Judah's book he gives interviews with the devotees, and they tell so many instances of how our devotees were so depressed and hopeless, and then they became Kṛṣṇa conscious, and oh, their whole lives have been transformed, and how happy and... Why don't they see that? They somehow discount it as being not very substantial, being fanatical or something religious. But it's a fact. He took a survey of "What was the thing that attracted you to the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?" So the majority, about 53%, they said it was the sound of the mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa. And another, about 48%, they said it was the friendliness of the devotees.
Prabhupāda: And that one, what is called? Draft? Draft man came to inquire that "What is the allurement here in this society that they try to avoid that..." What do you call? Draft? "...draftboard and come to this society? What is the facility?" So when he studied he said that "There is no facility; still harder. They have to give up so many things." He remarked like that, "Still harder."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Brain paralyzed. (break)
Harikeśa: Give this to Yogeśvara. (Prabhupāda and devotees get into car and drive away)
Bhagavān: Actually they are envious. We are doing the same things they are doing, but better, and getting the results. We are working. We are doing so many things like they...
Prabhupāda: We are not lazy. (break) ...Nixon was elected. I saw propaganda, "America needs Nixon." You have seen?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: People also thought, "Yes." He never said, "Nixon needs money." (laughter) This is cheating. He needs some money; he said, "America needs Nixon." And the rascals were befooled. (break) All these politicians do like that. What is their responsibility?
Brahmānanda: Now Nixon is in debt. He is now in debt.
Prabhupāda: So why don't you eat apple? (laughter)
Akṣayānanda: They are also envious of you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: I know that. Do they say like that?
Akṣayānanda: Not directly. But when we explain how many things, what is being done and we show photographs, how people have become devotees, they will say, "Yes, but have you heard of Swami so and so?" And we'll say, "Yes, we have heard of him. But our Guru Mahārāja has got thousands of devotees all over the world." "Yes, he has also got thousands of devotees." They'll minimize, even though it's there in black and white.
Prabhupāda: But where they are?
Brahmānanda: Yeah. Where are those thousands of disciples of these other swamis?
Prabhupāda: "Here we are, but where are the swami's disciples?" Ask them.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Cheating others, cheating himself. Just like this animal sacrifice. The man who is sacrificing, he is cheating himself, and he is cheating others also. (break) ...cheating, envious. Just like a man who is killing another man. So he is envious to himself as well as the man whom he is killing. Both. I am killing somebody, he is being killed. I am envious. And I forget that I'll be killed. Then I am envious to me also.
Brahmānanda: Yeah. Even one's own self-interest he is not taking care of.
Prabhupāda: This is the position. Even it is forbidden... In the Christian religion it is forbidden: "Thou shall not kill." And they are killing. That means envious of the animal, and he is envious of himself also. They are now being killed in the womb of the mother. Why the child is now being killed within the womb of the mother? Hm?
Akṣayānanda: Because they are envious. They are envious.
Prabhupāda: So Upendra has not come?
Brahmānanda: No.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Brahmānanda: He said he had to take a laxative last night.
Prabhupāda: Some way or other, he avoids. Eh? (break) ...therefore forbidden to make one steady in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if one does not follow this thing, then his mind, he cannot control. It is not possible. Unless one can control the mind and the senses, he cannot be steady. That is māyā's trick, to become guided by the mind. That is māyā's trick.
Prabhupāda: No, what is the meaning of that criticize? First of all you come to the stage.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Enviousness.
Prabhupāda: Now, Bon Mahārāja, our Godbrother, went. What did he bring? He brought some HMD. HMD. You know HMD? You do not know?
Indian man (3): Hindustan Machine Tools.
Prabhupāda: Hopelessness. When we see in our association all these girls. They are so nicely, well qualified. Whatever they are taught, they immediately pick up.
Kartikeya: In America they were asking my wife how Indian women are able to keep such devotion for their husbands. So they are actually very much interested and envious of this situation in India.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the nature. That is... They want to be a faithful wife, but there is no husband. Where to become faithful?
Harikeśa: So then they want to become liberated.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Being hopeless repeatedly, now they want liberation. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...because they are envious. When they advertise all kinds of nonsense they don't mind getting cheated. But something nice, they are envious of it.
Prabhupāda: Accha bole tomare lagdha, suta jagat murare.(?) You give me that chewra and milk and banana, nothing else. (break) ...and so much useless labor for growing tea, that will be stopped. You can grow food. (break) You drink tea, you'll require sugar. Then unnecessarily producing so much sugarcane. And the by-product of sugarcane, molasses, you'll have to utilize. Then produce wine, liquor. One after another.
Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. They'll...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Envious.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is rascaldom. They'll...
Harikeśa: They say He must be a very old man. He must be very old with a big, long beard.
Prabhupāda: So that we shall consider later on. He is a man like. First of all accept that. Then whether He is old or young, we shall consider later on. First of all accept that either old or young, He is a man like, shape, form. Then we shall talk other things. Then what is the use of talking with them, with a rascal? That is the point. There is no use, talking with these rascals. Waste of time.
Prabhupāda: Oṁkāra is… Oṁkāra is sound representation of Kṛṣṇa. One who is unable to chant Kṛṣṇa, for them oṁkāra. Because there are many envious persons—they won’t chant Kṛṣṇa—therefore Kṛṣṇa has given them oṁkāra.
Indian man (2): And the swastika?
Prabhupāda: Praṇavaḥ. Praṇavaḥ sarva-vedeṣu. It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, raso ’ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi sūryayoḥ, praṇavaḥ sarva-vedeṣu. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So complex.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is going on. "These Britishers do not allow me to go there? All right, kill them." That was the Hitler policy and Kaiser's policy, to kill British empire. They did it. They were successful. But they were also killed. This is going on, unnecessary. Why you produce so much razor and scissor? And then find out market, and when there is competition, there is anger, there is enviousness, there is fight, one after another, one after another. Where is peace? Why do you produce so many unnecessarily? Why do you produce so many cars, when there is scarcity of power, and fight with Arabians? Anartha. Therefore it is called anartha, unnecessary. Anarthopasamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje (SB 1.7.6). As soon as people will be devotee, they will not require unnecessary things. They will be satisfied, simply bare necessities of life. That is peaceful condition. You create unnecessary needs of life, and then there is competition, there is hellish life, the factory, and then the factory man requires wine to forget his hard labor, so on, so on. Then he become thieves. He become rogues. This is your society. How you can expect peace?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The only solution is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: That's it, only solution.
Prabhupāda: Capacity of the container. This is described in the Bhāgavata and the Caitanya-caritāmṛta also. Kṛṣṇa śakti vina nahe kṛṣṇa nāme pracāra: "Without Kṛṣṇa's special power of attorney, nobody can preach His name." Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So these rascals, Godbrothers, they are envious that... What he has written? Bon Mahārāja. Just see what kind of men they are. They are not even ordinary human being. They are envious of me, and what to speak of make a judgment by estimation? They're envious. Enviousness is immediately disqualification of Vaiṣṇava, immediate. He is not a human being. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ (SB 1.1.2). This Bhāgavatam is meant for the person who is completely not envious. That is the beginning. Why a Vaiṣṇava should be envious for anyone? Everyone is working according to his karma. He is trying to rectify him, that "Be out of these clutches of karma. You come to bhakti." Why he should be envious? Vāñchā-kalpatarubhyaś ca kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca. A Vaiṣṇava should be like ocean of mercy to reclaim the fallen souls. That is Vaiṣṇava's qualification. So Vaiṣṇava should be envious? Just see. So these persons, they are not even human being, what to speak of Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava cannot be envious. Vaiṣṇava should be: "Oh, my Lord's name is being broadcast. He is getting, giving so much service to make Kṛṣṇa known." That man has appreciated, that "All these spiritual leaders, they are deriding. You are the only man... You are... It enthuses us, give us more encouragement, that you are keeping intact, love of Kṛṣṇa." This is an appreciation. Why he should be envious? He should be, rather, very much enthused that "This single man is keeping Kṛṣṇa all over the world." And everyone is deriding.
Prabhupāda: That is wanted. But if you do not know what is God's name, then what you will chant? What you will chant? Then you chant Kṛṣṇa. We know it is God's name. Take. Take to our principle. If there is no medical college, come to our medical college. You are welcome. Why you are envious? You have no medical college; at the same time, you are envious of my medical college. Why? Why this nonsense? If you want to learn medical science—you have no medical science, college-come here. This is our proposal. Why you are envious? That means rascal. "Our gold." Gold is "our gold," everyone's gold? "Our gold." What do you mean, "our gold"? Gold is always gold, either in your hand or in my hand. In your hand it is not Christian gold and in my hand it is not Hindu gold. Gold is gold.
Brahmānanda: Well, they say, "Jehovah" and "Yaweḥ."
Prabhupāda: Not fixed up. The Māyāvāda... If you have no fixed name of God, then why don't you chant Kṛṣṇa? What is the harm? But envious. Therefore paramo nirmatśaraṇaṁ (SB 1.1.2). One who has completely eradicated from the envious conception of life, they can take to this way. (Break) ...climate of this island is good.
Prabhupāda: No, there cannot be uniformity. On the bodily concept of life there cannot be any uniformity. That is a... When uniformity comes? Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. When? Brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). Then uniformity. You have no knowledge of Brahman. You are living like cats and dogs. How there can be uniformity? That is not possible. (break) Practically you see uniformity. Somebody is coming from Europe; somebody, American; somebody, African; somebody, Canada; somebody, Hindu; somebody, Muslim; somebody, Christian. How they are becoming uniform? Because on the Brahman platform. And if you remain in this bodily concept of life, there is no question of uniformity. Para... (break) ...nirmatśarāṇāṁ. This uniformity means "I am envious of you; you are envious of me." This is our position. Bhāgavata says that this... Bhāgavata culture is meant for paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2). So if you remain in the material platform, there is no question of nirmatsara. Para utkarṣa asahanam. This is called matsaratā. The whole basic principle... Unless you come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of uniformity, peace, prosperity, nothing. Therefore our movement is "Change consciousness. Come to the spiritual platform, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then everything will be all right." Otherwise not possible.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They follow, some gentleman. And because at that time it is good living, somebody takes charge, "Alright let me take this pup." And the children also like, so he gets some shelter. So similarly, according to different body the activities begins. Therefore body is the field of activities. A snake, because he has got the field of activity of a snake's body, from the very beginning he is very, very envious. The same, trying to bite others. In this way our activities begin according to the body. And this change of bodies take place in the lower animal life automatically, by nature's law. Prakṛte kriyamānāni guṇai karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ. But when comes to the form of a human being, on account of developed consciousness, he has got responsibility. He has to make his choice. He is suffering in this material world changing different types of bodies, one after another, and the propensity to lord it over the material world is going on.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Yaśodānandana: The envious one.
Prabhupāda: He has got a camp here?
Yaśodānandana: No, in Madras.
Indian man: When he was here it happened. And that devotee's grace.... Then I said, "What is the reason why you say?" "No, no. After all, we are qualified. Those mlecchas..."
Prabhupāda: Nobody cares for you. You are so qualified that nobody cares for you.
Prabhupāda: No, he is very envious about us.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But I think now he must have come to the conclusion that there is no way to stop us, so he is thinking how he can... I have a hunch he is thinking how he can become connected in some way to get some benefit. That's why he is sending this man, this maṭha commander. Because he sees now there is no way he can stop us, so he is thinking, "How can I connect somehow with them? Because they have so much money and they're going to be doing so many big things, I must establish a connection with them."
Prabhupāda: So he wants to establish connection with us and...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I think so.
Prabhupāda: And describe that he has... Just like Mādhava Mahārāja also attempted. This is the attempt. So what we have to do in this connection? Let them do whatever nonsense they want. We shall do our own business. And we have no business to propagate that we are making... People already know us all over the world. So... But suppose if he makes an attempt to mix with us so that he can take advantage, his main policy is that we may go there. That is his... Because if we do not go, then all their propaganda makes him not very important if we go there..., if we do not go there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Let them see it. We are living in such a palace that everyone is envious. They ask in America that "You people, you do not do anything. How do you live so, like this?" Do they not?
Sudāmā: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The storekeeper says. (laughs)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And when we tell them, "We will also teach you how to do nothing also and live in a palace," they say, "Oh, no, thank you. That I do not want. I want to work hard."
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is called worms of the stool. You see? If you take this worm from the stool, "Why you are living in stool? Come here," "No, no. I go back there." You'll see. The pig eating stool, ask him, "Take halavā. Why you are eating?" "No, no. I like it very much." This is māyā.
Guru-kṛpā: There is also a question in that same line. They say that in the spiritual world we say that everything is peaceful, there is no birth and death, there is no material conditions, so if the conditions in the spiritual world are so nice and everything is spiritually, everything is spiritual, how is it that one can become envious of Kṛṣṇa in such conditions? This is a very...
Acyutānanda: The original sin.
Sudāmā: Why we are envious,
Guru-kṛpā: How is it that, if everything is free from envy, free from bad material elements...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guru-kṛpā: How is it that...
Prabhupāda: That is independence. That is independence. In spite of all these things, because you have got little independence, you can violate.
Prabhupāda: Moghāśā mogha-karmanaḥ.
Bhagavān: Actually they're envious, because they say that "There is no Supreme Person controlling," but then, on the other hand, they want to become the supreme person controlling.
Prabhupāda: They cannot.
Bhagavān: So it's just a matter of envy.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Who was that demon? He got some benediction from Lord Śiva. (break) Anyone he touched, his head would fall off, but he wanted to use it against Lord Śiva. (break)
Prabhupāda: When one is jealous of God, then gradually jealous of everyone.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jealousy.
Prabhupāda: Jealousy, yes.
Prabhupāda: Sixty years, they could not do any of these books. And still they are envious. Within sixty years they could not attract any foreign student or any book published. And still, they are proud. They have got all the blessings of Bhaktisiddhānta.
Yaśodānandana: They cannot even attract Indian students.
Prabhupāda: Just see, how black snakes they are.
Prabhupāda: So we should not bring that attitude in our society. That is my request.
Guru-kṛpā: Envious. They're all envious.
Prabhupāda: That you should not do. And that unity is possible with, only when harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21) is there constantly. Otherwise, it will be factional. What do you call? Factional is the right word?
Haṁsadūta: Yes, yes. Factional.
Prabhupāda: Why...? Suppose a big man, Rockefeller, says, "You simply surrender to me. I will take charge of you." Immediately one takes up. So why the man does not take Kṛṣṇa's word?
Haṁsadūta: They are envious of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam... (BG 18.66).
Haṁsadūta: Envious of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, no, envious...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They're ignorant.
Prabhupāda: Men are such a great fool, they have been described as mūḍhas. That is perfect word. Na māṁ duṣkṛtiṇo mūḍhāḥ prapadyante (BG 7.15). Duskṛtino mūḍhāḥ, the most sinful rascal, he does not surrender. That is a fact.
Prabhupāda: What is our fault?
Tripurāri: We have no fault except that we are successful. We are so successful, and they are envious.
Prabhupāda: That they don't want.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The people want, but the authorities don't want.
Prabhupāda: You have found out?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, I.... The index is not there, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: There is no index?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No index. First chapter?
Prabhupāda: No, how you'll find it? Give me. Unless you have an index, list.... The purport of the verse is that even Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu—He is God himself, Kṛṣṇa Himself—He felt, alone, unable to do this task. He felt. So this is the position. You are cooperating; therefore I am getting the credit. Otherwise alone what could I do? Ekākī āmāra nāhi pāya bolo. Caitanya Mahāprabhu Himself wanted our cooperation. He is God, Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: You have infected some disease. You suffer. Then the enviousness(?) of Kṛṣṇa will go away by suffering.
Guru dāsa: So the pure devotee is sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1).
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: With equal, friendship. With higher, service. And with lower, mercy.
Guru dāsa: And envious, ignore.
Prabhupāda: Yes, ignore. Neutral: "You go to hell. We don't mind."
Guru dāsa: Somebody asked me the other day if I knew Swami Vivekananda. I said "Viveka-who?" He said, "Vivekananda is very famous in the West. Do you know him?" I said, "Viveka-who? I have never heard of him."
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) So he was little surprised.
Prabhupāda: How dilapidated.
Madhudviṣa: How envious they were. We wanted to purchase the convent, and they said they would sell us only if they could tear down the church. They wouldn't sell it to us unless they could tear down the church.
Passers-by: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Envy means the cow has got right to live. He does not allow the cow to live. That is envy. You cannot understand this? Suppose you are walking. You have got right to walk, I have got, and if I kill you, you cannot walk. That is envious. Everyone has got right to live. Just like the camel. God has given their food. They are accustomed to eat these thorny twigs. So Kṛṣṇa has given that. Let them eat and live. Why should you interfere with his living condition? (break) Do not interfere with others' right. Why should you? (break) ...think we shall take the car in Bombay?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I think it's a good idea because there is no suitable place to store it here.
Prabhupāda: No, we can make a suitable place.
Prabhupāda: So at least you can make some propaganda that "Don't give votes to these persons." Don't name any. Then he will be envious. No.
Dr. Patel: You will be in the jail.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is giving them sufficient. They are mismanaging. Still, Kṛṣṇa is still bad. Envious. Kṛṣṇa created this earth. Did He say, "This is for the Australians. This is for the Americans"? Did He say? Why you are keeping so much land as "Australia"? That is also Kṛṣṇa's fault? Australia was never given to the Englishmen. They came and they, by force they took it. So similarly America, the land was there.
Prabhupāda: They are mūḍhas. Even they see it, still, they do not believe.
Guru-kṛpā: They're envious, that we can do it and they can't. If you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then it could be done. If you want to struggle yourself, then you have to struggle. That one lady was.... They were criticizing how we have such big building and everything, and then you invited her to come and stay with us and she wouldn't do it.
Prabhupāda: So we shall go again or go back?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We can go again if you like.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There is time. They are very much attached to their sinful activities.
Prabhupāda: The stool, you take them and keep it apart. They will go again to the stool. Nature's way, they must suffer. So-called philanthropic activities, welfare activities—useless. You cannot do any welfare activity; you must suffer. Only way you can do them some good, inducing them chanting, that's all. Otherwise no possibility.
Prabhupāda: There are three classes: one devotee, one innocent, and one envious. So we have nothing to do with the envious. With devotee, we shall make friendship, and to the innocent, we shall preach.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But the innocent souls, they're not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: He'll surrender. You teach him. Because he's innocent, he does not know. But you preach, he will become. That is our duty.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So persons who we preach to and give the message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness to...
Prabhupāda: Then let.... If anyone hears very attentively, that means he's innocent. He should be given attention. And one who says, "Why Kṛṣṇa Bhagavān? Ramakrishna Bhagavān." Oh, that's rascal, immediately. Take him, rascal. That's all. Finished. Created God. Huh? This Ramakrishna Mission has created God. God cannot be created. God is God. This is anthropomorphism. Is it not?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...they can't give up their sinful activities even after hearing about Kṛṣṇa, are they in the envious class or the innocent class?
Prabhupāda: They're envious. Sinful means that is the cause of their becoming envious. (break) ...law. Religion means the order of God. Simple definition. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Just like law, we keep to the right or left, order of the government. One who obeys this law, he's good citizen. One who disobeys, he's rascal. Similarly, dharma means the order of God. So one who obeys the order of God, he is really religious. One who does not, he's rogue, duṣkṛtina. This is simple. (break).... Christian. Now, what is the order of God? The Ten Commandments. If one abides by the Ten Commandments, he's really Christian. Take Buddhism; if he abides by the order of Lord Buddha, then he's right. Take Muhammadans even. So it may be one is Muhammadan, one is Christian, or one is Buddhist, one is Hindu, but if he abides by the order of God, then he's religious. Otherwise bogus. We are concerned Vedic religion. Our conclusion is that to approach Lord Viṣṇu. Oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. This is Vedic, Ṛg-mantra. Or Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). If one abides by this, then he's religious, or really religious. If he does not obey, then where is the religion? There is no religion. The instruction is here. One has to understand the philosophy from Bhagavad-gītā rightly and appreciate, himself, and preach. This is wanted.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Enviousness is caused by sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Enviousness is caused by sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: And in the Fifteenth Chapter of the Seventh Canto, in one verse you mention that enviousness can be given up if one gives up the tendency to sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So we see sometimes that the Māyāvādīs, they have perhaps given up the affairs of this world, but still, they remain envious, inimical towards Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Then?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So, how...
Prabhupāda: What he has given up? (laughter) What he has given up? You say he has given up; what he has given up? "I have given up everything, but I remain proprietor." What is this, given up? There is not, no "given up." The contradiction's there. One who has given up, what he has given up? He has not given up his personality. Then what he has given up? In Bengali it says that rasamba sataya chaibe tyāga,(?) (indistinct) that "In the room, whatever is there, it is yours.
Prabhupāda: That is envious. So if they sell books, so that is making Kṛṣṇa unpopular?
Bhūrijana: But one must learn to be a good book salesman I think.
Prabhupāda: But selling book, Kṛṣṇa, does it mean that the booksellers are creating unpopular opinion? Does it mean?
Bhūrijana: Automatically, no.
Prabhupāda: When you say that they're making enemies because they're pushing this, what is wrong there? Actually, I can so far understand that you do not like to sell books, or you cannot sell books.
Prabhupāda: That is their grudge. When they see such exalted literature, they are envious.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why don't we cut over?
Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda, we can walk over this way? There's no water.
Prabhupāda: It was all manufactured by the Britishers. To keep their faith with other nations, they were protesting that "Why you are keeping India dependent?" So they were pleading that "We are making India civilized." That was their propaganda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...in the age of Kali-yuga, difficulties will increase. That's a fact. Very, very difficult. We have passed only five thousand years, and there is balance of 427,000, hundreds of years, thousands. (break) ...only go back to home, back to Godhead. (break) ...has therefore advised that "Don't be engaged in all this nonsense activities, economic development. Simply become Kṛṣṇa conscious." (break) ...promises that "For such persons who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I'll take charge for their maintenance directly." Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). (break) ...envious of one another. They see that "These people, they do not do anything, and living so comfortably."
Prabhupāda: No, what do we care for them? We go on with our own business.
Bharadvāja: Actually, they are all envious because they see that without working we are getting such nice facility.
Prabhupāda: No, we are working, but working for Kṛṣṇa.
Bharadvāja: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is the difference.
Prabhupāda: The Communists also, they are envious of these capitalists.
Hari-śauri: The rich. "Make the rich pay," that's their slogan.
Rādhāvallabha: But the leaders of the Communists are rich.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Rādhāvallabha: The leaders of the Communists are all rich, and the people don't notice.
Hari-śauri: Andha, blind.
Prabhupāda: Russia, that, what is that, Communist leader?
Devotees: Nikolien? Lenin? Breshnev? Kruschev?
Prabhupāda: Kruschev. Kruschev. He was making money, therefore he was driven out. His son-in-law, his sons were being employed, neopolism, what is called?
Kīrtanānanda: Nepotism.
Hari-śauri: They are so much envious of those persons with more money.
Prabhupāda: India also, that.... "Make the rich pay."
Hari-śauri: In England also that's the prevalent theme now. That has accounted for the demolishing of the aristocracy in England more than anything, the government heavily taxing them so that anyone with money now is...
Prabhupāda: It is finished. In England aristocracy is finished.
Prabhupāda: Just see. There is story like that. One saintly person was sitting, and some karmīs came, that: "You are escaping, you are not working." So he said, "Why shall I work?" "You'll get money." "So what shall I do with the money?" "Then you can live peacefully." "I am living peacefully. Why shall I work?" (laughs) So they want to earn money, keep a good bank balance, and at the end of the life they want to live very peacefully, without any working. But if somebody is living peacefully without working, they will criticize him. Envious. They will accuse him, "You are escaping." If the end is this, and I shall live peacefully without any work—I am doing that in my own standard—why you are bothering me?
Hari-śauri: Once I was on saṅkīrtana and an old man came up and he was very, very angry. He was so angry he was almost going to hit me, and he was saying, "I'm seventy-three years old, and I have to work every day!" He stopped from his job to come over. And he said, "I'm seventy-three years old, and I still have to work. And here you are on the street, and you're doing nothing," like this, "and I'm so old and I still have work." He was so angry he was almost going to hit me. So envious.
Mādhavānanda: Sometimes they question, "How can you be happy? You don't drink, you don't smoke, you don't eat meat, and you don't gamble. What can you do?"
Prabhupāda: Did you not say that we have got something; the pleasure derived from all these things, that is very inferior. We have got pleasure of superior quality. Therefore we have been able to give it up. That is the fact. But you have no information of the superior pleasure. Therefore sticking to this inferior pleasure.
Mādhavānanda: In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, when Dakṣa cursed Lord Śiva, he also said that statement that the materialists are always envious of the self-realized souls for their opulence of self-realization.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...nature is the mother. So is that correct or not?
Mādhavānanda: Yes, yes. Mother nature.
Prabhupāda: So mother is there and children are there; so why there is no father? They say there is no God. How it is possible? The mother is there and children are there. How it is that there is no father? What is the answer? They say there is no God, or no father?
Mādhavānanda: They say that there may be God, but no one has even seen Him.
Prabhupāda: You might not have seen your father; does it mean there is no father?
Hari-śauri: Then they say what is the relevance of knowing who your father is? We exist, so let's move forward.
Prabhupāda: No, no, first of all, thing is that you say there is no God.
Mādhavānanda: On the radio program, one lady, she was asking questions. She was very envious. "And you are living in such a palace."
Prabhupāda: Why shall I not? Government servants, they live in the best place. We are Kṛṣṇa's servants, the supreme government. We must have the best car, best house, the best food, (laughter) everything. You are unfortunate, you are wretched, you cannot possess this. We are government's servants. Why the governor is living in the best house of the city?
Mādhavānanda: We said, "You can live here with us." She said, "Thank you."
Prabhupāda: Without any charges. Did you not say? But as soon as you shall say there is no tea, he'll go away. "Oh, horrible." (laughter) Just see. And you have to rise early in the morning. "Oh, it's still horrible." And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. "Ah, still."
Prabhupāda: Yes. No animal killing. We are not envious of anyone.
Mādhavānanda: People come to the temple, and they say that it is like paradise here because there is no anxiety. Everyone is so happy and peaceful.
Prabhupāda: So keep this standard. At least, people will be attracted; they will appreciate it. Don't minimize this temple; keep it nicely.
Prabhupāda: No, the things is.... Suppose a person, by his right, has to get so much money from his father's property. If somebody does not give him that money or somehow or other checks him to get the money, so that's a very heinous act. If he is actually inheritor of the father's property, he must get it. That is justice. Similarly, in the human form of life, one can get this education. If this education is lacking, that means we are envious. We're not giving the opportunity of fulfilling the right. And without this education, there is chance of falling down. Just like tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Another body you have to accept. If you do not give proper education, then next body may be lower than human being. There are so many different types of bodies, 8,400,000. So according to our mentality, we get another body. Nature's law. Nobody can check it. This life I may be very satisfied, that "I have got this body, let me enjoy without any responsibility and become an animal." That's not very good civilization. They do not believe in the next life. Big, big educated men, they have no brain even to understand that we are changing every moment the body, and they don't believe that body changes and the soul continues. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Find out this verse.
Satsvarūpa: And their discussion is very blasphemous. This Dr. Dimmock, he's made much investigation on the Six Gosvāmīs, and he's read all manuscripts, and he's always going to India and studying Rūpa Gosvāmī and Lord Caitanya, but everything is extremely blasphemous that he writes. So in both ways, in their habits and whatever they write. The Library Party men, they become friendly to these professors, but only to use them more or less, that they'll accept our books, despite themselves.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that we must do. (break) ...policy is when we go to a, what is called, a bad character, we don't go to associate with him, but to give him our association. Therefore we must be strong and very pure, so that your association, they will be benefited. For the preachers, īśvare tad-adhīneṣu bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu, the four behavior. Īśvara, tad-adhīneṣu, devotees, bāliśeṣu, innocent, and dviṣatsu, those who are envious. So a devotee, those who are preachers, they, prema, loving God, making friendship with devotee, and those who are innocent, to deliver. And those who are envious, reject.
Prabhupāda: No, they don't like us.
Kulādri: They are doing better than before, but still they are somewhat envious.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere this world is like that. Even the father will give trouble, Prahlāda Mahārāja, what to speak of others. Demon father is giving trouble to a Vaiṣṇava son. And not grown-up son, five years old, innocent, but he's giving trouble.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it was mistake.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Everyone is envious of such persons, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They think that "Yes, he could not enjoy his wealth, but if I had that wealth I would enjoy it." But then if they get it, then they also fail.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Next, what is next?
Hari-śauri: Half past eight.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Should we take your leave now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: No, I have no objection to sit down here. If you want to stop, we can stop, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: These things are meant for ajitendriyānām, who could not control the senses, ajitendriyānām. And who has engaged his senses in the service of the Lord, they are not ajitendriya. If you have engaged your mind in Kṛṣṇa, the mind is the king of senses; then your senses cannot be misled. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane (SB 9.4.18). Then if your mind is always in Kṛṣṇa, man-mana bhava mad bhakto, then what you'll speak except Kṛṣṇa? If you speak nonsense, that means your mind is not engaged in Kṛṣṇa. The mind is the center of all sensual activities. So if your mind is always in Kṛṣṇa, how we can talk nonsense? Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. He'll be always engaged in talking about Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. So if we keep our mind always in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then there is no question of mauna, because we'll have to talk about Kṛṣṇa. Why shall I remain mauna? If we talk about Kṛṣṇa, or what Kṛṣṇa has said, then I am benefited, and the audience, he is also benefited. Take Bhagavad-gītā and talk. So those who are Kṛṣṇa devotees, they'll gladly hear. Those who are inquisitive, innocent, they'll also hear. And the dviṣāt, those who are envious, they'll go away. That's good, clear. Talk about Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual. Don't talk anything else.
Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda? How can we give up our enviousness and reluctance to serve the spiritual master and the other devotees?
Prabhupāda: Answer.
Dhrstadyumna: One can free himself from envy by serving. You serve the devotees and follow the instruction of the spiritual master. In this way the mind becomes your best friend.
Prabhupāda: A devotee is never envious of another devotee. He is not a devotee. Tad-adhīneṣu maitrī. One who is devotee, we have to make friendship with them. How we can hate them?
Devotees: Jaya, all glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: This is their result. These rascals, atheist class, they'll suffer in this way. That is described now. Hm.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān āsurīṣv eva yoniṣu. "Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest among men, are cast by Me into the ocean of material existence, into various demoniac species of life."
Prabhupāda: This is the result. What is their explanation of the varieties of life?
Rādhāvallabha: They say, due to evolution over many millions of years...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The strongest, somehow they survive, and other, weaker species, they become extinct.
Rādhāvallabha: They say the origin of species is genetic.
Devotee (3): They say "Somehow or other..." Then...
Prabhupāda: Is that science? "Somehow or other." If I say, "Somehow or other, you'll become a dog," (laughter) what is the wrong there? If things are taking place somehow or other, so I say somehow or other you'll become a dog. Our explanation is complete. They accept somehow or other is a means. So somehow or other, you are going to be dog. How can you deny it? If that is your position, that things are taking place somehow or other, so how can you deny, somehow or other you'll become a dog? Hm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Tān—those; aham—I; dviṣataḥ—envious; krūrān—mischievous; saṁsāreṣu—into the ocean of material existence; narādhamān—the lowest of mankind; kṣipāmi—put; ajasram—innumerable; aśubhān—inauspicious; āsurīṣu—demoniac; eva—certainly; yoniṣu—in the wombs."
Prabhupāda: There are so many varieties of life, so we have to accept one of them by Kṛṣṇa's desire, Kṛṣṇa's arrangement. Kṛṣṇa says, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He is situated in everyone's heart. He's observing everything. So He orders that "Give him a body like this." Who can check it? Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). This body is a machine. The machine is given by material nature. Today you may be a very big man, and by your activities, asuric activities, you are so condemned that you have to accept a lower-grade life, a fox, sly fox. "You are very sly to spend others' money in moon excursion. Now you become a fox." So who can check it? Here it is stated, tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān (BG 16.19). So you cannot check it. You are not so great scientist. Then how do you say, "There is no God"? You cannot check God's law, so how you can say that there is no God? You can say at your home, "I don't care for government." And when government arrests you and puts you in difficulty, how can you check it? Is it possible? Then why do you submit that? When the police comes and arrests you, you can say, "No, no, I don't care for any officer." You cannot say. Is this not punishment? This tree is standing here for hundreds of years, and it will go on standing for thousands of years. Is it not punishment? So what the atheist will answer, this? Kṛṣṇa says, "I'll put him into this condition."
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Purport. "The most important point in this verse is that although saintly persons never desire the killing of any living entity, they take pleasure in the killing of envious living entities like snakes and scorpions. Hiraṇyakaśipu was killed because he was worse than a snake or a scorpion, and therefore everyone was happy."
Prabhupāda: Snake or scorpion... Of course, sometimes snakes, they eat their own children. They do it. But he has... He has tried to kill his own child. Modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā. Very good example. Saintly persons, they also want killing living entities like snake.
Devotee (4): Śrīla Prabhupāda, you say in your books so many times that somehow or other we have fallen into this material world due to our enviousness or our independence.
Prabhupāda: Many, there are many reasons.
Devotee (4): I can't seem to get a grasp on this at all. If we in our original constitutional position as part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, and in that position, that original position of full knowledge and full bliss and being in our eternal nature... Now I have some experience of how strong this material energy is and how māyā works somewhat, but if I had known this and had this full knowledge, then I would have had this knowledge of how māyā works and how I might fall.
Prabhupāda: You read the life of Jaya, Vijaya, Hiraṇyakaśipu, Hiraṇyākṣa? They were Kṛṣṇa's doorkeepers. How they fell down? Did you read it? Did you read the life of Hiraṇyakaśipu or Hiraṇyākṣa?
Devotee (4): Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: No, first of all you take your answer one by one. You say, "against the family." It is a wrong. It is a wrong propaganda. Oh, there are so many families in our society. It is a society. There are family members. There are brahmacārīs. There are sannyāsīs and vānaprastha. Whatever situation is suitable for you, you can accept, and in any situation, you can become God conscious. That's a wrong propaganda, that we are against family. Here is a wife of a boy. They have family. There are so many families. Why do you say like that, "We are against family? It's a wrong. You should note it especially that this type of criticism is envious. It is not proper. We invite all families, children, husband, wife, "Come on. Take Kṛṣṇa consciousness."
Bali-mardana: In the prison the people are, their work is, say, to hammer on bricks. So when, if someone comes into the jail and tells the prisoners, "You shouldn't be doing this, actually you should become honest and go out of the jail and be free." Now if the persons in the jail... Because... They will then become envious that "this person, instead of working hard like us, he's simply talking." They cannot understand the benefit that he's giving them and they become envious, that "Because he's not working like us he is nonsense." So do you understand the analogy? It's an analogy. Just like we are coming in the world and telling people to get out of this world, to understand the spiritual world, spiritual side of life. But because we're not working like them, sometimes they misunderstand what is our purpose.
Interviewer: In other words you think people should get away from what they're doing in the world.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, that is real life.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are envious of the Kṛṣṇa conscious men. They do not see that "These people, they are not hammering like us." So therefore they are thinking that there is no contribution of hammering. They think the hammering is the real business.
Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Hari-śauri: This will make Rāmeśvara very envious.
Bhagavān: This is special. This is on all volumes.
Prabhupāda: Oh, how many chapters?
Bhagavān: Up to chapter nine.
Prabhupāda: Oh, First Canto.
Bhagavān: Half of First Canto.
Prabhupāda: Yes, twenty.
Jñānagamya: There is so much envy in my heart, and when I'm chanting I'm understanding the envy causes me so much distress. Yet I can't give it up. I cannot leave off these envious feelings.
Prabhupāda: That is material world, envious. That is a disease, to become envious. The spiritual world means no enviousness. That is spiritual world. And material world, there is only envious. I'm envious of you, you are envious of me. It is a society of enviousness. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇām, Paramo nirmatsara (SB 1.1.2). One who is not at all envious, for him, Bhāgavata-dharma. (break) ...dharma is for the envious person.
Nava-yauvana: Dharma is for the envious?
Prabhupāda: Yes, so-called dharmas. Just like we have created so many dharma, Hindu dharma, Muslim dharma, Christian dharma. They are so-called. They are not dharmas. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma means what is given to you by the Supreme Lord, that is dharma. Otherwise, if you manufacture some ritualistic ceremonies, some formulas, some dogmas, that is cheating. That is not religion. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ. That is first-class religion. What is that? Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. Wherefrom you learn how to love God.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Rascaldom, enviousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, no. Rascaldom includes everything. If you say "rascal," then he includes everything. The so-called scientists say "Oh, after this..." The Communists, when I was talking with Professor Kotovsky, he said, "Swamiji, after death everything's finished." Such a big professor. Just see. Why everything finished? We see this life, stage by stage, one stage is coming after another, another stage is coming, another. Why do you say finished?
Pradyumna: So we analyze the material body is temporary, it's no good anyways, then if, even if someone says, "Well, it may be temporary, but in this life we can get something out of it," then we analyze that other people are taking that. The wife is taking that, the children are taking that.
Prabhupāda: No, we should first of all fix up what is our business. People have taken this, that to maintain the body, to maintain the family, to earn money and protect it, these have become their business. They do not know anything else. The whole world is going on on this platform.
Nava-yauvana: "First we must reach to your standard, then we can become interested in spiritual life." It's an envious position. On the material platform they are thinking, "You have gotten so much, now you can afford to practice this. We cannot afford such practice."
Prabhupāda: Then it is a luxury, it is not necessary. Is it not?
Nava-yauvana: Yes, that's what they are thinking. After the material luxury, then you have this.
Prabhupāda: But why the Indians, they are not like the Americans? You find in India still millions of people will go to the Kumbhamelā with torn cloth. They are not like Americans, riches. Why they take? Indian is well-known poverty-stricken. So why almost ninety-nine percent people, they are after Kṛṣṇa consciousness naturally? Still they'll go, when there is Kumbhamelā, so many saintly persons are coming.
Prabhupāda: That C.P.I. member, what does he say?
Acyutānanda: Well apparently they're a little bit envious because Māyāpur is becoming very popular amongst the local people. We get five thousand people now for the prasādam. And even the Congress leaders, they come here and eat with the people. They said, "This is wonderful."
Prabhupāda: Where is that?
Acyutānanda: At Māyāpur.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Acyutānanda: And Jayapatāka is going to the villages, I gave him one bus and he is selling about six to seven hundred Gītār Gāns a day.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You'll run out of those pretty...
Jayapatāka: We'll be finished in two months with those thirty thousand.
Acyutānanda: And the response is wonderful within the villages. They all say, "Hare Kṛṣṇa," everywhere.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Acyutānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: How people are receiving this movement all over the world, even (indistinct) to the communist (indistinct). They are trying to kill God, and we are putting God (indistinct) educated families.
Prabhupāda: You can bring so many men and keep everyone in charge of such places, and it will develop. Money, there is no scarcity. But the difficulty is as soon as we establish, the immigration, "You go away." This is... What is this? You say the MLA and this Tarun Kanti." This is our difficulty. Otherwise there is no difficulty. We can take all the charge and develop them very nicely." So if one man is kept in charge, and after few months he's advised, "Go away," then all his training goes to hell and we have to spend another ten thousand rupees. This is the difficulty. What... We are not... Not a single case there is that we have taken any part in politics. So give us some facility. We can take charge of everything. Tell them that actually that is fact, that there is no scarcity of money. We can bring money from America and develop. There is no difficulty at all. The difficulty is the immigration department. You can say that "Prabhupāda has put this philosophy, andha..." What is that? Paṅgu. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. Blind and... Depends on this... Blind and... I think you have already know. Blind man, lame man. One man is blind, another man is lame. Both of them are useless. But when they combine, the blind man takes the lame man on his shoulder, and the lame man gives direction to the blind man, "Go this way. Go this way." So he walks. So both of them are benefited. So America has got money but blind. And India has got culture but lame. So let us combine. Then things will be done very nice. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. Just like I am the same man. I was finding difficulty to start this mission in India, very, very difficult. With great hardship I published three books. But as soon as I went America, the andha-paṅgu-nyāya became successful. So this is the the position. So instead of becoming envious from political.
Prabhupāda: Yes, then do that. And we are inviting everyone. We have no distinction. Anyone can come to the park. Convince them. (continued on another tape) "Come on! Take prasādam "sumptuously." They'll be satisfied. They are hungry. Actually they are hungry, poorly paid, capitalist and worker. The trouble is, capitalists, they are taking all the profit, and they are enjoying life in wine and women. Naturally the worker will see that "Why? We are working so hard, and they are making profit, and they are enjoying, and we do not live in a very nice house. It is a slum." Naturally they will be envious. If the capitalists spend the money for Kṛṣṇa consciousness—in each and every factory they hold festivals and give them eatables like anything everything will be successful.
Gargamuni: And gradually we will sell. Then we will preach. Otherwise, if we...
Prabhupāda: That is the purpose of my Bhaktivedanta Trust. Fifty percent must be spent for printing and fifty percent for building. That's all. No money. Don't keep any account.
Gargamuni: Then the government will never get envious because there's nothing there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And we haven't got to keep so many accountant, auditors, and other nonsense, unnecessary things. As soon as there is collection, invest the money in some building or in making some book, book printing. Follow this policy. I am very much eager. I have got money here and there, but I want to spend it in this way. So therefore I am advising take this. We shall invest renovating them and in developing them. Spend money. Don't keep money.
Prabhupāda: I'm writing one letter to the governor that I work hard, I print my books and they are selling, and if I bring the money to construct temple, why people are envious? What is the wrong there? Rather, I should be encouraged that I am bringing so much money in India, foreign exchange, by my hard labor. So why they are envious? Why... I have sent this to the governor.
Gargamuni: And these leaders are simply envious, that's all. The only reason why they're not helping us is because they're envious. Because so many people are interested and no one is interested in them.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, our Gītār Gān is selling.
Jayapatākā: Yes. When we stopped at Burdwan, in one place, one boy sold 198 Bhagavad-gītās, Gītār Gān, without moving. So many Gītās... People were just crowding around taking Gītās so much that the local... There were some bookstores. They also came and they said that "We cannot get wholesale? We have never seen such a book sell so well."
Prabhupāda: They are holding some meeting? Today we have got very good article in the Sunday Chronicle. Everyone is reporting about us very nice, and still there are some envious persons, they are creating doubts about us.
Commissioner: They cannot create any doubts, Swamiji, as long as you are establishing the equality of man in the eyes of God, only one God. That is being done, I think.
Prabhupāda: Yes, we have no discrimination.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Brāhmaṇas means they are teachers. Paṭhana-pāṭhana-yajana-yājana-dāna-pratigrahaḥ. So every temple should be educational center, and the brāhmaṇas should be engaged. They should be properly educated and they should teach others also. In this way, temple means education in spiritual life. And actually spiritual life is life. This material life, the bodily conception of life, is dead life. Aprāṇasyeva dehasya maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam. This nice shirt you have changed because there is life. When there is no life, who is going to change dress? The body is there, but why you are not interested in changing the dress? Better interest... The sooner the body is thrown away or burned, better. So similarly... (break) There is a proverb that a vulture goes very high, but his ambition is where is a dead body. As soon as he finds a dead body, (growling sound) immediately. And we see, "Oh, how high he has gone." So what is the going up so high if your aim is to find out a dead body? And actually, these aeronautics, they went to very high, suppose they went to moon. But after going there they find, "Where is Moscow? Where is this?" The same vulture business. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the only hope to give relief to the human society. So everyone should cooperate with this movement. Unfortunately, there are so many envious persons, they are writing against us, talking against us. They should be envious. Because they want to exploit, keeping the people in ignorance.
Prabhupāda: No. That one verse is that one does not... Kṛṣṇa's mission is that "Surrender unto Me." Now who does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa? That is stated by Kṛṣṇa.
- na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
- prapadyante narādhamāḥ
- māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
- āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
- (BG 7.15)
Anyone who does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa, he must be grouped either duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama, māyayāpahṛta-jñāna, āsuraṁ bhāvam. We do that. Anyone who does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa, he must be grouped among them. And for them, what is their... Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram. Find out this verse, tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān... If anyone is envious of Kṛṣṇa, then what is his punishment.
Prabhupāda: This is their punishment.
Harikeśa: "Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest among men, are cast by Me into the ocean of material existence into various demoniac species of life."
Prabhupāda: And next verse?
Harikeśa:
- āsurīṁ yonim āpannā
- mūḍhā janmani janmani
- mām aprāpyaiva kaunteya
- tato yānty adhamāṁ gatim
- (BG 16.20)
"Attaining repeated birth amongst the species of demoniac life, such persons can never approach Me. Gradually they sink down to the most abominable type of existence."
Prabhupāda: So this is my request, that our money... There is nothing our money. Everything Kṛṣṇa's. But we are thinking. Because we are asuric. So asuras think like that. Just like Kaṁsa, Hiraṇyakaśipu. "Ha!" Rāvaṇa. "Ha! What is Rāma?" That is asura's. They think like that, and that is asuric. But otherwise īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore yajña is advised. The sooner you hand over Kṛṣṇa's property to Kṛṣṇa, it is good for you.
Indian man: Not Lord giving protection? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: No, Lord, giving, giving. That I am confident. Because they are envious, "How Bhaktivedanta Swami is getting so much money? He's paying crores and crores. There must be some political..." As they are getting from Russia. But actually, I am selling. I am working night, writing these books, and these boys are helping me to sell it. I am getting enough money to spend it. What is my fault? For Kṛṣṇa's sake we have sacrificed everything, our life and everything and Kṛṣṇa is giving us money and we are spending it and they are criticizing in the Parliament. This is my misfortune. I don't take it as misfortune. Because asuras are always there. Even Kṛṣṇa's time.
Prabhaviṣṇu: There is one verse in the Bhagavad-gītā, in Chapter Seven,
- icchā-dveṣa samutthena
- dvandva-mohena bhārata
- sarva-bhūtāni saṁmohaṁ
- sarge yānti parantapa
- (BG 7.27)
The meaning of this verse is that all living beings in the material world are born into delusion, overcome by the duality of desire and hate. So the fact is that the living entity, he desires to become great. Just like God is very great, so the living entity wants to imitate God, and therefore he comes in this material world, and he tries to become great and very powerful. This is desire. He tries to enjoy himself. And also icchā-dveṣa. He becomes envious of the Lord. Many people in the material world, they don't like to admit that God exists or that there is someone greater than themselves because they think themselves to be the greatest. This is the disease of material life. But the cure for this disease that we have to accept...
Prabhupāda: You know that? There are so many rascals, they say, "I'm God." You know that? That is the problem. If somebody says, "I am God," is it a fact? But he says like that. He's such a rascal. That is the point.
Prabhupāda: Kāla. Kāla means lajjita. Black face. Everyone should be ashamed. They may be envious on account of their failure, but if you come to the actual valuation, sata mukala. That's a fact.
Hari-śauri: Actually, that Bon Maharaja is very black anyway.
Prabhupāda: He's so black, there is no more black required. (laughter) A black snake. (Bengali) In Bengal it is said if a brāhmaṇa is black he is dangerous.
Akṣayānanda: If a brāhmaṇa is black?
Prabhupāda: That means he's not pure brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa cannot be black. Just like a European, if he becomes black, that means he has mixture. European and American, if he's black, that means mixture. So brāhmaṇa family, how it has... Still, family, it must be very fair. Śukla. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya family must be very beautiful. If he's pure. Kāla brāhmaṇa prakāśa śūdra (Bengali) beki poṣya-putro pasaraila.(?) It is a slang language. Kāla brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa should not be black and śūdra should not be white. And a Musselman should not be dwarf. Because formerly real Musselmen were coming from Kabul, Afghanistan. That is called (indistinct). If a Muslim is dwarf that means he is not real. (Bengali) Prostitute's son, and poṣya-putra, adopted son. They are all of the same class. How this selection? Black brāhmaṇa, white śūdra, dwarf Musselman, and prostitute's son, and adopted son. Adopted son, he gets money without any earning and spends like... I have seen so many adopted sons.
Prabhupāda: For me it is better to remain in Vṛndāvana or die. (laughter) Hm. Because they may be very envious, "Here is the man who is behind all this." (laughter)
Haṁsadūta: Yes. In Germany, this one man he wrote that this movement is very dangerous, because these boys and girls who have come to this movement, they completely, they make themselves completely subservient to the dictation of one man.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Haṁsadūta: What ever the man will say, they will do.
Prabhupāda: Charmistic? What is called? Charmistic Guru? He has said Dr. ...
Hari-śauri: Charismatic.
Prabhupāda: Charismatic. (laughs) Yes, what is that charismatic?
Haṁsadūta: Charisma means a person who has a very strong attraction, he attracts.
Prabhupāda: He has said, actually our whole movement is going on on this. Everyone is carrying the charismatic, (laughs) all.
Prabhupāda: Oh, they are envious.
Mahākṣa: They are envious. Very envious.
Prabhupāda: Why you joined them?
Mahākṣa: I did not know. I thought it would be a good opportunity. They promised me they would give us a good program and good accommodation. When we got there, they did not like that we were very popular. (tape breaks up throughout) Then Mr. Bishop (indistinct) brother, T.C. (break) ...tour, he is a good man. He came with... (break) He is one of the most respected men in Bareilly. He forced them to put the program back again. So we did again the same evening. The people there love our program. They are all supposed... They have pictures of Caitanya Mahāprabhu on the stage and they're supposed to be following Him but they sing all these sahajiyā sort of songs and they sit down and it's all gṛhasthas. There's no, There's no real...
Prabhupāda: They want business.
Prabhupāda: No cloud. In the street it is very disturbing. (break) ...party, they are also touring? No.
Mahākṣa: They have groups in different towns. They have in Birelli and Harpur. They don't travel and preach. I've met them in Ghaziabad also. They were the same. They were very envious, and they would not help. Also in Harpur they were the same. (break)
Prabhupāda: Like our poison, (?) more. Mm?
Mahākṣa: Oh yes. The people are gullible. They do not know. They are more attracted to us. But we are not always there.
Prabhupāda: Occasionally, you find cities. (Break) You cannot speak Hindi, still they like? Huh?
Mahākṣa: They like us.
Prabhupāda: They like our kīrtana.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They will be glad.
Mahāṁśa: Then the Tirupati managers will become envious.
Devotee (4): How shall the worship be in the temple, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the small temples. What shall they worship?
Prabhupāda: Yes, you introduce kīrtana.
Devotee (4): Kīrtana?
Prabhupāda: That's all. And whatever they eat must be offered. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Another (indistinct) also. (indistinct)
Indian devotee: He is son of (indistinct) Mahārāja, but he is very envious. Very, very envious. I went to him, I remember.
Prabhupāda: They are envious of the Gauḍīya Sampradāya. Because of (indistinct) Since a long time.
Yaśomatīnandana: But they cannot say anything against Gauḍīya Sampradāya because Vallabhācārya glorified Caitanya Mahāprabhu. They cannot say anything against Caitanya Mahāprabhu because Vallabhācārya glorified Him.
Prabhupāda: No. He has written to (indistinct)?
Girirāja: Yes. He made another point, that is Vallabhācārya actually considered Caitanya Mahāprabhu as his superior. Then after this incident, still, he criticized Śrīdhara Swami. So that means he did not accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu as superior.
Prabhupāda: There is no question of accept. He was plainly defeated. Because he said that (indistinct). Even Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted his invitation after this. He also invited and he also (indistinct) ...talk like that. Not only that, Caitanya Mahāprabhu criticized, but as soon as Vallabhācārya invited, He accepted. There was no enviousness. Rather friendly, sometimes they call others are (indistinct). Otherwise why Caitanya Mahāprabhu would accept invitation from Vallabhācārya. But they are habituated to criticize (indistinct). That Caitanya Mahāprabhu chastised him: "Why should you think like that?" In a friendly way. (indistinct) They are still criticizing Śrīdhara Swami, and if others criticize them, "Why you are criticizing Śrīdhara Swami?" There is no answer. This is the position.
Girirāja: He's envious.
Prabhupāda: Gandhi has... He's envious. The same thing. Bhagavad-gītā, he is writing essays on Bhagavad-gītā but the main principle of Bhagavad-gītā, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. What is that?
Girirāja: Mām evaiṣyasi satyaṁ te pratijāne priyo 'si me.
Prabhupāda: So where is that?
Girirāja: They don't follow.
Prabhupāda: This is their defect. Therefore they are failures. Must be failure. They do not take Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They mix with their false ideas. And therefore spoil, adulterate. And bhagavad-bhakti is without adulteration. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (CC Madhya 19.167). Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). Pure. No adulteration. That is bhakti. Jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). Sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). That is not nirmalam. Sa mala it is. With mala. With mala. Mala. It cannot be. Proportionately.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, let him. That you have to practice, how to use kāma, krodha. That is described by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. Kṛṣṇa-sevā kāmārpaṇe. Kāma means you have a strong desire to do something. That is kāma. So convert it, this kāma desire, for Kṛṣṇa's activities. Kṛṣṇa-sevā kāmārpaṇe. Krodha bhakta-dveṣi-jane. And persons who are envious of the devotees, you become angry upon them. You have got this quality, kāma, krodha, lobha, but you can utilize it. Just like Hanumān. He became very angry, and he set fire in the Lanka. Unless one is very angry, he cannot do that. But that krodha was applied to the demon. Krodha bhakta-dveṣi-jane. So we can utilize kāma, krodha, moha, bewilderment. When we cannot find out a bhakta, then we should be bewildered. Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvam. So therefore bhakti process means that everything has to be purified. Krodha, Hanumān's krodha to set fire Laṅkā, it is purified krodha. But they cannot understand the krodha, how it is purified. But krodha can be purified. When it is bhakta-dveṣi-jane... Those who are envious of God and His devotees, upon them you should be always angry. "No, I have become a bhakta. I cannot become..." Caitanya Mahāprabhu showed by His example.
Prabhupāda: No, at that time it was selling 150. And now it is more than four hundred. Our land is, only one crore, apart from these buildings. Therefore everyone is envious.
Dr. Patel: Most envious men are... That fellow was himself burned by pouring kerosene on. He was a most envious fellow. He even once told me, "Why do you go there?"
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Dr. Patel: I used to treat his family. I was doctor. And I stopped treating him because he has not, he was so envious. He has got half a dozen girls in his family. I mean, where you will get...
Prabhupāda: In Kali-yuga there is no marriage. Svīkāra eva codvāhe. Agreement.
Girirāja: The others are envious.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because they're ordinary men. Man's business is to become envious. An ordinary third-class men, there is always envy. Not only first class, but third class. And what to speak of Vaiṣṇava and paramahaṁsa. Third-class men. And the government is capturing them and giving sterilization because there is record—so many abortions in the American Hospital. The bābājīs are making pregnant the widows, and they are going for abortion. There are many cases, similar, and there is American Hospital.
Prabhupāda: Let them chant and take prasādam. They'll... Everyone will get. Then gradually, as a snake charming, by chanting, chanting, chanting, then they will be subdued. And that is guaranteed process. There is no doubt. Anyone, even a man is like a snake. In material world everyone is a snake, envious. Snake is very envious. You are passing by the side, "Oh! You are passing by my side?" This is snake. No offense. Because he is passing—he has got the poison-he'll utilize it. This is snake. Without offense. If somebody hurts him or tramples him—no. "Oh, you are so daring? You are passing? You do not know I am snake." Sarpaḥ kruraḥ khalaḥ kruraḥ sarpāt krurataraḥ khalaḥ. There are similarly men also. Unnecessarily they are envious, offensive, unnecessary. They cannot tolerate others' opulence. Just like our Godbrothers. They are envious. What I have done to them? I am doing my business, trying to serve my Guru Mahārāja. But they are envious because I am so opulent. I have got so much fame, so many influence, so much influence all over the world. Everyone is praising me about... That is ignorance. And this is regrettable because they are posing themselves as Vaiṣṇava. Ordinary man can do that, but they are dressing like Vaiṣṇava, and they are so envious. That Tīrtha Mahārāja, unnecessarily he was envious, whole life fighting, fighting, fighting in the court and died. Simply planning. So who has gone for the beads? Simply planning. So who has gone for the beads?
Hari-śauri: She's just got some beads.
Rāmeśvara: But they're very eager to have us come to the colleges and high schools...
Prabhupāda: Envious.
Rāmeśvara: ...to speak. It's much easier now to get lecturing engagements than ever before. They are after us to give our lectures.
Prabhupāda: So why not engage Brahmānanda in that business?
Rāmeśvara: I think he could do well.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They're surprised, the neighboring people around our temple, "How do you live so comfortably? You have got so many cars and so nice house." But they are working hard like hogs and dogs and we are getting money without doing anything. They are envious.
Trivikrama: We invite them to come and join us.
Prabhupāda: That they will not. Why there? Here also. They are envious for this Hare Kṛṣṇa, but when you call, "You come and live here," that they will avoid. They're envious of my opulence, and when I say, invite, "You come also and join," "No. I'll rot as hog. That's all. I prefer this hoggish life."
Trivikrama: And the she-hog.
Dr. Patel: This will create a sort of a turmoil...
Prabhupāda: It has already created.
Prabhupāda: So you can invite this opposition cult to see what we are doing. "Why you are after us," ask, "like the barking dog? There is good use. It is the highest culture." Make some compromise: "Why you are after simply spoiling? Don't you want advancement in culture and knowledge? Why you are so envious?" Just try to bring the leaders, that "What is use? You also join. It is a culture. There is no need of repressing us. We are serious to introduce a new culture for the benefit of the whole nation. Why don't you study this? Do you mean to say we are publishing books only, all sentiment, brainwash, and people are purchasing?"
Rāmeśvara: They cannot accuse us of brainwashing when we have so much artwork and publishing work.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "We are giving culture, art, scientific knowledge. You are accusing. It is good for your nation. Think nationalwise what we are doing. We are not fools. They are also educated. They are coming from respectable family. Why you say that we have become befooled, brainwashed? We are not so fool that I shall be brainwashed by some Indian." Try to make compromise before them. Actually, this is a great culture.
Prabhupāda: Why they are envious of us? When we live very nicely, they are envious that "These people do not do anything, and they are living so nicely."
Rāmeśvara: They will not be so envious if they see that people who dress in Western style and keep their families and keep their jobs are also chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: We say... We say that, that we simply say, that "You change your consciousness."
Rāmeśvara: Not change your dress, but change your consciousness.
Prabhupāda: No, we never said. If you prefer that kind of dress, costly, you prefer it, but we are simplified.
Rāmeśvara: It's our choice.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: They are subscribing to our newsletter. They somehow or other get our newsletter, and they read about our Māyāpur city costing so many lakhs and crores. So they became envious. That's all.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That's all right. We are selling books. That is my book. I can spend in such a way.
Rāmeśvara: It was just envy.
Prabhupāda: Envy is envy. But it is my book. I am selling. So I can take the price anywhere. That is my right. You have nothing to say. You stop your men to purchase, that's all. Otherwise I'll sell anywhere and I shall spend anywhere. I have got the right.
Prabhupāda: Hm? They cannot. They... Those who are intelligent, they are making something, Śrīdhara Mahārāja and others. But this man was envious, this Tīrtha Mahārāja, because... He advertised that he is the only favorite student of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. (laughs) But spiritually he was empty. Materially he was capable, how to manage things. But spiritually he was zero. That Prabhupāda also knew and everyone knows. He had no spiritual understanding. Materially he helped Guru Mahārāja how to organize. Therefore he liked him, that "This man is expert manager."
Prabhupāda: "No, we don't feel any... We do not feel any stress. You feel because you are unable to do it. But we don't feel it. We have given up... Since our spiritual master has said, we have given up, immediately. But you cannot do it," say.
Rāmeśvara: That's it. And they're envious, so therefore he's trying to find fault. He says, "You are creating so much stress that you are actually blocking your mind from the higher realms of meditation."
Prabhupāda: No, that is... "You are saying. Our mind is not blocked. We are making progress. You are saying that because you cannot do it. That is your deficiency. We can do it immediately."
Prabhupāda: Because you want to be. You are such a rascal. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mūḍhā janmani janmani mām aprāpya (BG 16.20). This envious atheist class life after life will not be able to understand Kṛṣṇa. For this purpose... Find out that verse.
Rāmeśvara: This is very good, because I know this question will come up now.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is never dead. Just like sun. Sun is never out of the sky. It is in my eyes I see that sun is gone. Formerly these rascals were believing sun is dead at night. The Christians believed like that. Is it not? Some of the Christians believed that at night, sun is dead. And the world is square, flat. This is their knowledge. Lord Buddha, he rejected Vedas. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. We were being taught that "You cannot deny the authority of Vedas," and Lord Buddha, he denied the authority of Vedas. But the devotees, they are worshiping: keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare: "Lord Buddha, we can understand your pastime. Still, you are Lord. I offer my obeisances unto you." So the devotees can understand. You cannot understand why Lord Buddha denied the authority of Vedas—to keep you in darkness. He wanted to stop animal killing, and he preached ahiṁsā, nonviolence. That was his mission. Now these rascals came forward that "In the yajña vidhi animal-killing is recommended. So why you are stopping animal-killing?" The Buddha... Buddha replied, "I don't care for your Vedas." Does it mean that he did not care? Veda nā māniyā bauddha haila nāstika. He played like that, that "I am nāstika. I don't believe in your Vedas." But actually he's not. His mission was different. But these rascals will not understand why he is denying the authority of Vedas. So they're atheists. Sanmohāya sura-dviṣam. Lord Buddha appeared to cheat the atheist class of men. Sanmohāya sura-dviṣam. Sura-dviṣam means those who are envious of the believers, sura. They are called sura. And those who do not believe in God, they are called asura. Just to bewilder them that "Here is incarnation..." They do not accept incarnation.
Prabhupāda: Sarpaḥ krūraḥ khalaḥ krūraḥ. The two envious... (break) But this sarpaḥ, snake, can be charmed by herbs and mantra, but the man, envious, cannot be. Therefore he's more dangerous than the snake. Khalaḥ kena nivāryate.
Gurukṛpa: Like that Māyāvādī last night.
Prabhupāda: He was a rascal. (laughs) Neither māyāvāda suviravādī, opportunist.
Hari-śauri: He's just a mūḍha, that man last night. (out of car) (break)
Gargamuni: We can walk on the beach. It's a very smooth beach, the sand. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...I was jumping here. (laughter) 1920 or '21, I came. After my appearing in examination, B.A. test, I came here. By that time I was married. I was married in 1918. (break) Because jubilant, I was jumping. When the waves come, I was jumping, the waves passed.
Hari-śauri: They're just envious of Kṛṣṇa, anyway. They're envious because they want to enjoy.
Prabhupāda: That is the cause, that they're criticizing. They're envious.
Gargamuni: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: That's all. The envious man can say anything.
Gargamuni: That I notice when they say that. I can notice their envy.
Prabhupāda: But still Kṛṣṇa is being worshiped. Here is Jagannātha, Kṛṣṇa. Millions of people have come to worship. You are rascal. You may criticize. It doesn't affect Kṛṣṇa's respectful position.
Hari-śauri: Yes. They're envious. Otherwise they wouldn't have left at all.
Gargamuni: So it was planned. They planned it that way.
Prabhupāda: The solution is... There is no problem for us. Even we do not enter the temple, that is no problem. But if we can start a nice temple, people will come, the same thing as in Vṛndāvana.
Hari-śauri: Yes. That's...
Prabhupāda: The bābājīs or gosāis are against us, but who cares for them? Our temple is going on.
Prabhupāda: They are asking surrender.
Hari-śauri: They're actually envious because they want everybody to follow their idea of going here and there.
Satsvarūpa: One person said, "This kind of thing reminds me of Hitler's Germany. If there's too much authority or blind following, it's not healthy."
Prabhupāda: No, too much authority if the authority is wrong... But if the authority is right, then it is very better to submit in one place and get everything. Just like we go to some supermarket. We get everything there, we go there.
Bhāgavata: Out of love.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not by enviousness. Chastisement means correction. He's in the wrong way; he is corrected to the right way. So gradually you have to take the power of the king to correct the whole human society. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). That is Kṛṣṇa's business, to give protection to the right person and to chastise the wrong person, two things required, side by side. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. And dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya. Three, another. By chastising the wrongdoer and by giving protection to the right man, and then establish what is real religion. And then Kṛṣṇa's mission, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is perfect. Three things: paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām, dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya yuge yuge sambhavāmi. This is Kṛṣṇa's business. (break) ...Bhagavad-gītā, everything will be nice, everything.
Prabhupāda: Just like here it happened, Hindi and English. That enviousness is always there. I have seen in Montreal. All the officers, they are speaking in French. They won't talk in English. Airport. Purposefully. And there was fight, regular fight between these French speaking and English speaking, riot. People are so foolish. So it is bilingual. In everything, English and French. If you put one notice, it must be in English and French, as here (chuckling) they in the provincial language, Oriya, and Hindi, state language, and English for outsiders-three languages. You'll see in the railway station the local language and the Hindi language and English. Actually people take advantage of the English language and little more from the Hindi. Local language nobody knows. Just like we do not know what is Oriya.
Gurukṛpā: "He's stealing from you." That is a great problem. We lose so many sales because of envious people stopping.
Satsvarūpa: They say we're pretending to be a religion just to collect money, but our real aim is just to cheat, false propaganda. (horn beeps)
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Child: Prabhupāda ki jaya!
Prabhupāda: Jaya! Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No self-interest—that is the difference. I wanted to serve. That is the difference. But now it is clear. None of them, they want to serve. They want to make one establishment so that they can eat and sleep. Of course, there is some preaching, but if, there is, preaching is the purpose, why they should separate? That is not the purpose. The purpose is that "I must have some separate establishment as ordinary karmīs they have got their separate establishment." Preaching is not that, neither they can preach with enviousness. So, what to do?
Jayapatākā: In any case, he has not yet accepted, and it will take sometime to build your house.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is not... On principle, I am talking on the principle. That is not yet. It will take some, at least two, three years or at least one year, but this is the position. This Dāmodara Mahārāja you have already experience about... (laughs)
Bhavānanda: Yes. And he is like an ant compared to them.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhavānanda: He is like an ant. They are more envious.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayapatākā: And if we hear anything against your Divine Grace it is more painful than death for us.
Prabhupāda: They are very envious.
Jayapatākā: There's one good news, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Gargamuni called last night. Mahendra had informed him that we're going to have our 747 jumbo jet land in Calcutta.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Jayapatākā: It will be the first commercial flight. They have 310 people coming on the flight.
Prabhupāda: So the government will receive.
Prabhupāda: ...here is envious. So envious, upekṣā, means they should not be associated. Īśvare tad-adhīneṣu bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca. Four division: God, īśvara; and tad-adhīneṣu. Devotees, those who have accepted... (break) That is devotee. Bāliśa, those who are innocent. Preaching...
Jayapatākā: Like child, bāliśa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They should be trained up. And dviṣatsu, envious. Four division. So four divisions you have to treat in different ways. Prema, Lord, prema, love. Maitrī, friendship with devotees. Kṛpā bāliśu, those who are innocent, the kṛpā. Let them learn. And upekṣā. As soon as come to the dviṣat, no cooperation. Keep aloof. So when we try to keep aloof from the envious, that is not our enviousness. That is just to avoid trouble for preaching work. Not that we hate them. But because... When you avoid a snake, it does not mean I hate the snake, but because he is harmful we have to take precaution. This is the statement of Bhāgavatam. And when you are in the mahā-bhāgavata stage, first-grade, that time, paramahaṁsa, nobody's enemy, nobody's friend. Everyone... That we cannot imitate. It is not... Preacher, even if he's mahā-bhāgavata, he comes to the second stage.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just to give them protection. So when we avoid envious persons, that is the injunction of the śāstras. This man wrote to the chief minister or prime minister complaining about them?
Jayapatākā: About his electric connection.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Jayapatākā: That Mahesh Pandit. You're talking about the man of Mahesh Pandit?
Prabhupāda: No, no. This Dāmodara Mahārāja.
Jayapatākā: The chief minister.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayapatākā: Yes? He gave false name; he signed it false. He said that we're coming with banduka and chasing the sādhus and that we're harassing people, beating them. So many things he wrote, false. He said, "Most envious is Bhavānanda and just like him is Jayapatākā." Then he said that "Tapomaya, he is simply their lackey. He goes and harasses people," this and that. Then the police came, and they showed us the letter, and we both looked at each other and said, "This looks like something that Dāmodara Mahārāja would do." So we advised the police, "We think that he did it." So the police went over there and they said as soon as they had the letter he started shaking. They said, "Is this your letter?" He said, "No." He says, "You wrote this letter." Because they could see he was nervous. They are experienced. They said, "All right, you give your signature." And then he signed, and although he tried to change it, they said, "No. This is the same signature. Now we're going to take you to the thānā." (police station) "No, no. I am sometimes a little crazy." Āmi ekṭu pāgala. "I didn't mean this..." Then he admitted. But he sent that to the chief minister.
Prabhupāda: Just see. How envious.
Jayapatākā: Naturally, any letter to the chief minister, they...
Prabhupāda: Take action.
Jayapatākā: Envious people just trying to upset. The Western devotees that come, they are amazed that all of the devotees that are here, all the families are living separate from their wives. No temple has achieved that yet.
Prabhupāda: Everything can be done by practice.
Jayapatākā: The hari-nāma is purifying them because they are chanting so many hours. Now, when we give class, they also ask questions.
Prabhupāda: Life is coming.
Jayapatākā: Yes. Taking time. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: That is the fact.
Brahmānanda: Yes the neighbors.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They were envious that "How do you live so opulently? You do not do anything? You have got so many cars. You eat so nicely. You live in such a nice house. And no anxiety." (laughs)
Brahmānanda: That's why they think we are CIA, because they think we're getting money from somewhere, from government.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Our Tīrtha Mahārāja accusing me that I have got two crores of rupees from American government to start this movement. (laughs) Even my Godbrother says, what to speak of others. Nobody is living such nice house, all of my Godbrothers. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Oh, that, that is enviousness.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Just spiteful enviousness.
Prabhupāda: Enviousness. Just like, you like..., who has done something wrong to you, you like to do some wrong, harm.
Hari-śauri: That was Churchill? Churchill's policy?
Prabhupāda: At that time not Churchill. Attlee, Attlee was Prime Minister.
Brahmānanda: In Africa, Nehru, he was instructing the African leaders also how to get...
Prabhupāda: Freedom.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Krodha bhakta-dveṣi-jane. That is Narottama Ṭhākura's instruction. You must be very angry, those who are against God and devotee, very angry. Utilize your anger for them. Krodha bhakta-dveṣi-jane. That anger is service. Kṛṣṇa-sebā kāmārpaṇe. For Kṛṣṇa's service one should be mad. Kāma-krodha should be given up, but a bhakta does not give up. Utilize it. A bhakta should be very much for kamut(?) serving Kṛṣṇa. And he must utilize his anger for the bhakta-dveṣi, those who are not devotee. Kṛṣṇa-sebā kāmārpaṇe krodha bhakta-dveṣi-jane. We have nothing to give up like Māyāvādī. Kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mātsarya. Mātsarya may... That has to be... A bhakta cannot be envious. If a bhakta is angry upon them, that is not envious. That is for good. A bhakta should not be envious. Otherwise how he can preach? He's merciful. Even if he's angry, it is mercy. Therefore this mātsarya has no use for bhakta. Other things, they have use, kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, not mātsarya. Mātsarya is very bad.
Prabhupāda: (sarcastically) Very good associates. That is his associate. He may not be very... No, everyone is not openly envious, everyone, but we can understand by behavior. Nobody is openly envious.
Satsvarūpa: Just by keeping apart, he..., that..., he shows there's some enviousness. (long pause)
Prabhupāda: Where is my cap?
Satsvarūpa: (aside:) Maybe he had it.
Prabhupāda: So socks will be required? (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they have no... Their philosophy has no real basis.
Prabhupāda: That cannot appeal to the higher educated person.
Prabhupāda: The political was Ramakrishna Mission and Tīrtha Mahārāja.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really? Ramakrishna Mission. Envious. Even though they're not near here, still they can understand how prominent we would become.
Prabhupāda: We have already become more than, more important than.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tīrtha Mahārāja's brother is active now?
Prabhupāda: What...? Rejected. I think of them, dead. They may think themselves that they very full of life, but I think they are dead. What is the use of fighting with the dead body? Dead horse and what is the use of whipping? A dead horse will rise up by whipping?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, "Beating the dead horse." There's a saying.
Prabhupāda: I think all of them are dead.
Tripurāri: Envious. Just envious. (break)
Prabhupāda: Why he said dhīra, sober, cool-headed? These rascals are cats and dogs. They are not civilized, even big, big professors, they say, "Swami, after finishing this body, everything is finished." Has he got brain? And they're Communist leader. Identifying with this body. This is the actual platform of that body, dehātma-buddhiḥ. And they're described in the śāstra as no better than the asses. So next point will be that where you think beyond your capacity, we begin our education from there, seeing the... Our education begins from that. First of all try to understand what is spirit. Then it will... And our whole process is how to transfer one person from the material platform to the spiritual. Therefore they are thinking "brainwash." The fools, they cannot understand where our education begins. Where they have failed, we begin from there. Where they are disappointed, that "This cannot be answered," so on, we begin from there. So who is intelligent? We are intelligent or they are? We are trying to bring man from this gross misunderstanding, misidentification platform, to come to the spiritual platform. Then he understands what is the spiritual kingdom, the spiritual life that is eternal, blissful. Then he will understand. And that is all new to these dull-headed rascals. And they are thinking... It is the same, different subject matter.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Hari-śauri: They're envious because they're struggling for their own existence, and they don't like to see us not struggle.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Envious. But if we develop this community project, farm, they cannot do anything.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they appreciate this farm projects.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Why shall I work? I am working for my own..., for the village."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They like that. They would also... Probably they would respect if we did some businesses, some of our members.
Prabhupāda: We can do. Manager is there.
Prabhupāda: So we should send him a letter of congratulations. "May God bless you for such right judgment. Be... Live long life to serve God." Like that, make a nice... That is our mission.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Very honest and sincere people normally appreciate our movement. Only those who are envious...
Prabhupāda: Envious we don't care for. We don't mind. Never care for them. I didn't care anyone, any times, even my Godbrothers. Neither I care just now. I'll go on with my... Why? We are doing our duty. That's all. Under higher authoritative order. Have no fear. It is not personal gratification. So arrange for Manipur. We shall go. Let us go.
Prabhupāda: Very nice? Yes. Now see. (laughter) He is one of the person who helped you. When I went to Africa I asked Brahmānanda, "Are you going to support me?" He said, "Yes, I'll do." Then I signed. Otherwise I hesitated, that "These people are denying property..."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The people are envious of Bombay, especially this man, Sada. He's head of the Trombay that I talked. He was the... Everybody knew about our temple.
Prabhupāda: That is a good advertisement.
Girirāja: Yes. Actually most people are. They see the book distribution, the construction, and the time factor, that we are still pushing on. We're not going away. Many factors. They see the leaders are also appreciating our activities. Actually our movement is very all-encompassing. Our movement is all-encompassing. I mean I've really seen from Svarūpa Dāmodara that... Your same teachings we can dress up in different garbs and present to anyone, and they will be convinced, unless they are very envious.
Prabhupāda: Iron-clad demons, they will be made remain.
Girirāja: But innocent people, they can be convinced. One thing I was concerned about for the pandal is that many of these leading personalities, they want to meet Your Divine Grace. But at the same time it might be very strenuous for you to come from Juhu every day.
Prabhupāda: Not every day.
Prabhupāda: That is natural. If one gets little prominence, other becomes envious. So it is so polluted. Mātsarya. So we have to adjust. (aside:) Give me my shirt. So take care of your health and circumstances. You have to adjust things according to... (long pause) If there is difficulty, his wife and children may come to Vṛndāvana.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. His family's more or less provided. They have...
Prabhupāda: They've got good position.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are zamindars.
Prabhupāda: That is very dangerous. Jñāna-khala. Khala means envious, "I know it..."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A Vaiṣṇava is para-duḥkha-duḥkhī.
Prabhupāda: How we can stop spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness? It is not possible.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You told me that unless one is compassionate...
Prabhupāda: He cannot become Vaiṣṇava.
Prabhupāda: These can be distributed to the devotees. Today I have explained the Bhāgavata, prāṇamānāya:(?) how this bodily concept of life is dangerous. These things they do not know. Leaders, big, big papers, big, big propaganda. What is the purpose of life and how dangerous this civilization is, bodily concept of life, they do not know. Bhagavad-gītā begins when they understand that "You are not this body." The whole subject matter is on that soul, the whole Bhagavad-gītā. Bhojendra-gehe 'gni-śikheva ruddhā, sarasvatī jñāna-khale yathā satī. I see Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam so exalted knowledge and so beautifully literary presented. Śrīmat. Śrīmat means beautiful. Throughout the whole world, you won't find any literature. This is India's fortune, and they are keeping it packed up. Jñāna-khaleṣu. Jñāna-khala means envious. You have got some knowledge, but you are envious. You don't want to distribute to anyone. They are called jñāna-khala.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jñāna-khala. One who keeps knowledge to himself.
Prabhupāda: Monopoly. They are called jñāna-khala. But real jñānī means if you have got some knowledge, you should daily distribute it.
Prabhupāda: They're envious.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You tried to placate them by inviting all those brāhmaṇas for the installation ceremony.
Prabhupāda: Now I am not...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But still, they were not placated.
Prabhupāda: Now we do not care for them. Our temple is now crowded. That is in beginning just to show that we are going through real ritualistic... I spent ten thousand rupees on that performance just to make a show.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Envious system.
Prabhupāda: Animal.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Animals are envious also.
Prabhupāda: Envious is everywhere. So the whole civilization is so defective. Somehow or other, you come to the power, and you do whatever you like, and the people in general will have to depend on such leaders for their welfare. How they can be happy? If the whole system is defective, how they can be happy? The same man, in one day he's very important, in the next day he's the most degraded. And the most degraded man, previously he was praised by millions of people and next day he's condemned. That means who elevated her to the post, they're all rascals.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) "Oh? Kṛṣṇa likes Her?" They become envious. But here: "Oh? Kṛṣṇa likes Her? All right."
Guest (1): To please Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The purpose is to please Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (1): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) That is Vṛndāvana. That is described in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, that... Aiye. Ātmendriya-prīti-vāñchā tāre bali kāma (CC Adi 4.165). (Hindi) The gopīs' līlā with Kṛṣṇa... (Hindi) ...the desire is "How Kṛṣṇa will be happy."
Prabhupāda: They have nothing. Still, they have got... That is called in Bengali, bisnai kulavane cakra(?). There is no poison, but the hood is: "Arrhh." (laughs) That is their... Even this bite, there is no poison. But they are showing kulavana cakra(?). Still, it is bhayaṅkara. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says, maṇinā bhūṣitaḥ sarpaḥ kim asau na bhayaṅkaraḥ: "A snake..." Sometimes snake has got some jewel on the hood. So he can go in the darkness by the light of the hood. If somebody thinks, "Oh, here is a snake with jewel. Let me embrace him," no, no, no, it is very ferocious. Even it is jewel there, it is ferocious. Similarly, these people are envious. Although they have become so-called Vaiṣṇava, they are ferocious. They have not acquired the qualification of Vaiṣṇava. Simply vesopidin(?), by dress. So what is there? They could not do for the last fifty-sixty years. Still... They wanted to exchange. I stopped it, the Mohini Babu. Mohini... Bali hatti zamindar(?). So if we do not get that place, we can get other place?
Jayapatākā: Oh, yeah, there is no difficulty.
Girirāja: This morning you gave the hint that there might be envious persons coming to take away our properties, so in the GBC meeting we discussed this point, that... A committee of us six was made to resolve this. So basically what we did is we made a model trust deed which can be used for all of the Indian properties. There may be three trustees for each property. And the basic point of the trust deed is that the property rests with these trustees and that they have no right to sell or mortgage or dispose of the property in any way. That is the basic point. And then we have proposed three trustees for each of the properties. So...
Prabhupāda: But there will be finally the trustees. And there may be one advisory board to... Pick up some friends and make an advisory board. They are not final. Final is trustee. Anything to be done should be considered first of all by the advisory board, and then if it should be sanctioned by the trustees, then it can be done.
Jayapatākā: The other temples they have not even maintained. Only Caitanya Maṭha somehow or another they are maintaining, but the other branches are falling apart.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The same condition as it was. They have no life, dead body. Now it will deteriorate more and more. Tīrtha Mahārāja, envious, managing. And they will not give. So tit for tat. You can do that. Then that is very glorious. That is a different country, different law. Some way or other, if you get the sympathizer, then take it.
Prabhupāda: The whole Vṛndāvana Gosai, they are perturbed that this temple is becoming very popular.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How are they feeling about it, the Vṛndāvana Gosais?
Prabhupāda: Envious. They know the future. This will be the first-class temple. This is already.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This temple will be more important than Bankabihari.
Prabhupāda: Hm, hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm sure.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are simply exploiting, and our mission is to give. That is the difference. They know their deficiency, that their business will have to... Common sense.
Prabhupāda: Solve this problem. And don't be poverty-stricken. That's all. That is happiness. There is no need of... So we, the members of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are living hundred times happily than anyone else, hundred times. They cannot dream. They are envious. In Los Angeles the neighborhood men, they're envious, that "These people, these devotees, they do not do anything, and they are living so comfortably—so many cars, nice palace, nice food." They inquire. They do not know. Don't expect in that way happiness. That is futile, that "Our father will leave lakhs of rupees and we shall get the interest and enjoy and then drink and go on." That is not happiness. Work hard how to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be happy in this way. Kṛṣṇa will give. And yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham. Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). He knows what is your need.
Prabhupāda: What medicine?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Quinine, and I think Śrīdhara Swami is arranging some other medicines. There is malaria epidemic in India. In Hyderabad every family, at least one person, has malaria. It's all over India, even in big cities. Bhakti-prema Swami, he also has malaria. Mosquitoes seem to be a very envious creature. Are you liking the massage, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: In the guesthouse they can remain. But they cannot hold meeting.
Brahmānanda: They were asking me that we should cooperate with them, but they are envious of us. This one woman, the way she was speaking to me, it was quite... She was attacking me. She was so envious. She was quoting Bhagavad-gītā that Kṛṣṇa recommends the impersonal.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So why is she talking? Why talk? Everything is illusion. Then why talk?
Brahmānanda: She said there are two paths. I said, "Yes, but your path is most difficult. So why are you promoting the most difficult path to follow?"
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But who cares for her path?
Akṣayānanda: (indistinct) a different path.
Prabhupāda: Never mind. You remain strong. Don't be intimidated by this... That is my request.
Brahmānanda: He was very envious, that Auroville, of what is going on.
Jayādvaita: They're nothing.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are nothing. No one ever heard of them outside of India.
Prabhupāda: Aurobindo never preached in Hindi.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) He was speaking in English?
Prabhupāda: Um hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You should have said that. "Why don't you follow your master? He spoke in English." That would have been a good point. You could say, "We are following our spiritual master. He speaks in English. Why don't you do the same?"
Prabhupāda: He wrote all books in English.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They make up a language. Aurobindo has done like that. His writings are simply so many long words that no one can understand. Therefore they think, "Oh, he's very intelligent. Important philosophy." Your books are so simple and nice, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that even little children take pleasure in hearing Kṛṣṇa book and find no difficulty in understanding. And the biggest scholars, they are also praising. These are your books. I found that Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa was not so envious.
Prabhupāda: No.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the others were too much. He's not envious. He actually appreciated. He's very eager to come to Māyāpur, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Girirāja: Yes. And they're not envious. It seems that in India many of the people are a little envious of us, but everywhere we went in Nepal, it seemed that the people were very happy to see us.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Have you ever been there, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: No.
| Page Title: | Envious (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Rishab, Mayapur |
| Created: | 26 of May, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=206, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 206 |