Prabhupāda: Four hundred... Three thousand years is the duration... Four hundred and, yes, four hundred and three thousands of years, solar years, is the one unit of yuga. Such thousand yugas makes twelve hours of the Brahmaloka planet. Similarly, they live there for a hundred years. But these four things, namely birth, death, old age, and disease, these four things are everywhere, either you live in this planet or moon planet or sun planet or any other planet. The duration of life may be very, very great. Just like in comparison to the ant, our life, human being—we have got hundred years age—so to the ant it may be very astonishing: "Oh, how such a great length of time one can live?" Similarly, we may be astonished by hearing twelve hours duration of Brahmaloka, but actually there is. But still, you cannot avoid death. Death is there. So from this book we understand from the version of Kṛṣṇa, or God, that ā-brahma bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). Even if you go to the highest planetary system, again you have to come back. In this way, all living entities are rotating from one planet to another, from one species of life to another. But we don't want this actually. If I say that "If I give you a nice body, youthful body, and eternal body, full of knowledge," would you not like to have it? Nobody likes old age, nobody likes death, nobody likes to die, nobody likes to take birth again, enter into the womb of mother and live there ten months. You are tight packed. Nobody likes. But what is the solution? Is there any solution by the scientist? No scientist can say, "Well, all right, we shall stop death. We shall stop disease." They can manufacture nice medicine to counteract disease, but they cannot manufacture anything which will stop disease. You can fight against death very nicely, but you cannot stop death. These are the problems. But there is no education in the modern civilization how to stop death, how to stop disease, how to stop old age, how to stop birth, how to attain eternal life, how to attain blissful life. They have no education.
Enter into (Conversations 1968 - 1974)
Expressions researched:
"enter into"
|"entered into"
|"entering into"
|"enters into"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Because we believe in Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says that if you do this you get this result. Therefore I must have confidence. Just like Kṛṣṇa says that simply by understanding Him, what He is, how does He come, how does He walk, one immediately gets passport to enter into the spiritual kingdom. So we must have confidence that I'm working in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I must go back to Godhead, back to home. This is confidence. So enthusiasm, patience, confidence. And ... yaḥ syād ... niscyad... tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. Simply enthusiasm but no work. But you must be engaged in the prescribed duties of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And you must keep always yourself in the association of devotees. These things are, I mean to say, impetus for development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So the more you enthuse yourself with these six principles, patience, enthusiasm, then confidence, then engaging in the activities, keeping association with devotees and avoiding association with nondevotees. That is also another thing. Just like if you want to ignite a fire then the more the dry wood is, you get good fire. If you get wet wood, the fire is very difficult to burn. Therefore we should keep ourself dry from being wet by the association of nondevotees. That is also another process. You see. If you come to our class and go to some other class, some nightclub class, then it is counteracted immediately. You see. So you have to, if you want to ignite fire you must protect it from water. And if you ignite fire and pour water then what is the benefit? Nothing. So to make progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness you have to keep company with devotees. Similarly, you have to avoid the company of nondevotees. So these six principles will develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And then the last question is: "Does Kṛṣṇa consciousness bring in karmic action as part of its belief?" Yes.
Prabhupāda: There is no enmity. Everyone accepts the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the protector, as the master, as the Lord, and they serve faithfully. So there is no question of fighting. In the material world everyone wants to be the lord, everyone wants to be God. So therefore there is fight. The fighting here takes place because everyone wants to lord it over the material nature. So there is difference of interest. I want to be lord, you want to be lord: now there must be fight. But in the Vaikuṇṭha world there is one Lord and all others servitors. Therefore there is peace. So fighting was not possible in the Vaikuṇṭha world; therefore these two doorkeepers were sent to the material world by the plan of the Supreme Lord so that they could fight as Hiraṇyakaśipu and Hiraṇyākṣa with the Lord. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Now the spiritual spark is entering into the material world, penetrating seven layers. This is called avyakta, nonmanifested. Just like in the sky there are nonmanifested and manifested things. If you go high, some 25,000, fifty thousand miles up, you'll simply find in the sky nothing manifested. But if you go still higher, higher, higher, you will find some other planets existing. So the part which is nonmanifested is called avyakta, and the part which is manifested, that is called vyakta. So these two souls from Vaikuṇṭha, they are coming into this material world. So they're penetrating the nonmanifested matter. As the matter... Five elements—earth, water, fire, air, ether. And then... These are gross elements. And there are subtle elements: mind, intelligence, ego. And then spiritual. Our body is composed of three things—the spirit soul, and it is covered by subtle body: mind, intelligence ego; and there is gross body: fire, water... earth, water, fire, air, ether. So this universe, this universe is only one universe, but there are millions of universes, and they are covered with the gross and subtle elements. And penetrating that gross and subtle elements, when one comes to the sky, there are innumerable planets.
Prabhupāda: So far Hindu religion is concerned, it is a very broad thinking. The Hindu religion, Vedic religion, is divided into two kinds of philosophers. One kinds of philosopher is the impersonalist. They take the Absolute Truth as impersonal, all-pervading impersonal. And the another philosophers, they take that the Supreme Absolute Truth is person. The impersonal feature is one of the features of that person, but ultimately he is person. So without person there cannot be any question of love. Therefore the section who believes in person... Not believing, they know actually what He is, and there is method how to love that person. The example is given: just like the sun and the sunshine and the predominating Deity in the sun globe, similarly, one who comes to the light, he first of all sees the sunshine. That is impersonal. Then, if he goes further, if he is able to go to the sun planet, that is localized. And if he can enter into the sun planet and see the predominating deity there, then he is a person. So this is a vast science. People are too much engrossed with material activities. They do not try to understand actually what is the position of Absolute Truth, what is the position of the soul. Practically in the present day they are more or less animalistic. Just like animal does not know anything beyond eating, sleeping, mating and defending, similarly, the modern civilization is too much busy for increasing the method of eating and increasing the process of comfortable life or sleeping, and increasing the matter of, method of sexual life, or increasing the method of defense. So these things, are found even in the animals. They also eat, they also sleep, they also have sex life and they also defend in their own way. So human life is not limited within these four walls. He has to understand what he is, what is this world, what is this creation, what is God, how it is going on. But they are neglecting that fact. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness will give information to this department of knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So there will be no contradiction. Just clearly try to understand.
Reporter: Okay. Then I'll try to repeat what you said and see if I am correct.
Prabhupāda: I'll repeat. I'll repeat. First thing is that to enter into the moon planet you have to prepare yourself for a different body. If that body, you think that it is already made by the spacesuit, spacesuit is that different body, then it will be contradiction to my statement. But I say that with the spacesuit that you have manufactured, that is not fit to enter there. Now it is clear? The spacesuit is not fit for entering there. Is that clear?
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Now if by chance with this spacesuit you enter there, that will be contradiction, that nobody can enter. But I say you can enter there with a suitable body. If you think that the spacesuit is that suitable body then you can enter there. But I think this spacesuit is not that suitable body.
Reporter: If I think the spacesuit is suitable...
Prabhupāda: For entering that moon planet... That is your statement, but I say that spacesuit is not suitable for entering into the...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: He has some doubts about the means they're using to go there. He doesn't think that the...
Reporter: I think what... I think we have to carry it further enough so that we can tell whether, for one thing whether I have a story or not. If it's felt if you have doubts that it can be done, that's one thing. But if you have great confidence that it can never be done except by changing one's body...
Prabhupāda: No, I don't say that. I say that in order to enter into the... Just try to understand me clearly. In order to enter the moon planet you have got to prepare yourself for a suitable body. Is that clear? If you, by some way or other, you make that suitable body you can enter. But the present body which you have manufactured, the spacesuit, is not suitable.
Reporter: Okay, then when I try to carry it further, if they use the present body and do, are successful...
Prabhupāda: That they could not do till now. That is future contemplation. Because even going up to sixty miles off they could not. Therefore this is not suitable. Now you say also, just like they didn't have the ticket. The further arrangement is still waiting. That means this is not suitable. This is... We just try to convince you.
Reporter: Do you think that any improvements in the spacesuit...
Prabhupāda: That is future hope. Not the present suit. I say the present suit is not suitable.
Reporter: What about a future suit?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? Suppose in your country, you have got some quota for immigration. Within this planet, if somebody comes, without your immigration department's order, nobody can enter. How do you expect in that planet where the people are more advanced, they are called demigods, they are living for ten thousand years, how you expect that you go and you are immediately enter into the moon planet? And they are selling tickets, reservation. You see? Everything, they make a fun of it, you see?
Journalist: Let me understand this if I may. Are you saying that there are people on the moon?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Journalist: There are. And they are demigods?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Journalist: How do you know this?
Prabhupāda: From our scripture, from Vedic literature.
Journalist: From what literature?
Prabhupāda: Vedic literature.
Journalist: How do you spell that?
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Candanācārya: I think that's why he's worried about hippies.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Candanācārya: Because he saw photographs that audience was hippies.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So that we cannot cancel: "These hippies are not admitted." No. We admit everyone. We cannot say that "Such and such person cannot enter into our temple." We cannot say. Everyone is welcome. Everyone is welcome. And, if they do not come, how they'll converted?
Miss Rose: I think that the confusion is...
Prabhupāda: We cannot say, just like, in some hotels, that "Such and such persons are not admitted." No. We cannot. We admit everyone. Our mission is to elevate persons from down state of life to the highest state of life. So everyone is in down state. Lord Jesus Christ also said that "You do not hate the sinners, but hate sin." Is not that, Lord Jesus Christ said? So hippies may be sinners. We raise them to the pious life. But we say, "Don't do this. Don't do this sinful act. Don't take intoxication. Don't do this. Don't do this." We hate sin, not the sinners. Actually. If we hate sinners, then where is the possibility of preaching?
Miss Rose: If the hippies would come, come, come...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: These four things, namely birth, death, old age, and disease will accompany you. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that mad-dhāma gatvā punar janma na vidyate. "If you reach My abode in the spiritual sky, then you'll have no more birth." So this male-female question is everywhere. The only difference is that in spiritual world there is no need of sex life, or there is no impelling sex life, although there is attraction between man and woman. That is... Just like Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. There is attraction, of Rādhā for Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa for Rādhā, but there is no sex life. So male-female, conception of male-female, as we have got here, there is concomitant factor of sex life, but that should not be exported to the spiritual world, that idea. There is also male-female, but there is no sex life attraction. That's all right. Yes?
Pradyumna: Swamiji, I read in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in the purport to the (inaudible) ...ślokas... And I saw in another book about sambandha, abhidheya, (inaudible) ... Could you explain that?
Prabhupāda: That is called prayojana. Everyone enters into contact or agreement with another. What is the idea? To achieve some profit. To get some profit. Similarly, we have got... (break—kīrtana) (end)
Prabhupāda: We are distributing papers. And... Everything is there.
Allen Ginsberg: Okay. So my question then, as it was originally when you first asked me, what do I think...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Allen Ginsberg: Is the Caitanya-Kṛṣṇa ritual, as you have it here in this house and in the other āśramas, is that something that a large mass of people can enter into?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not?
Allen Ginsberg: In America?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because we have seen. All my students are Americans. So it has to be... And it is spreading.
Allen Ginsberg: Yes, but what it requires is an adaptation of Indian dress and an adaptation...
Prabhupāda: That is not very important.
Allen Ginsberg: And an adaptation to Indian food.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Indian food... It is not Indian food. Are you not eating fruits?
Allen Ginsberg: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Then that is Indian food? Do you mean to say it is Indian food?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Certainly. This creation is only a part of manifestation of His energy. Insignificant. That is explained in Bhagavad-gītā.
- atha vā bahunaitena
- kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna
- viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam
- ekāṁśena sthito jagat
- (BG 10.42)
"The whole material existence is simply a partial manifestation of My energy." Ekāṁśena. Viṣṭabhyāham. Aham. "I have entered into this whole material creation and that is My partial manifestation of energy." Just like what is your, this body? The body is the, a manifestation of your energy. The seed, living entity, is put into the mother's womb and he expands. This body is expanding. But because you are limited, so much. That's all. Three feet or six feet. That's all. No more. You cannot expand more than that. This is crude example. But He's unlimited. He's expanding. Bṛhatvad bṛṁhaṇatvad iti brahma. Brahman means nothing is greater than Him and nothing can expand like Him. Bṛhatvad bṛṁhaṇatvad iti brahma. So everything is there scientific. Simply we have to administer. We have got authoritative scripture, description, answers, everything is there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot know completely. That is because our knowledge is very imperfect. But still, so far our knowledge is concerned, as far as possible, we should try to understand. Avāṅ mānasa gocaraḥ. This Absolute is so great and unlimited that it is not possible for us to know Him completely. That is not possible. Our senses does not allow. But as far as it is possible, because, after all, we are part and parcel of the Absolute, so all the qualities of the Absolute are there in us, but it is in minute quantity. So that minute quantity is also very great in comparison to material knowledge. Material knowledge is practically no knowledge. It is covered. But when one is liberated, liberated knowledge is certainly very, very great than material knowledge. So Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān. These are the statements of Bhāgavata. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). It is... Śabdyate means sounded as Bhagavān, Paramātmā, and Brahman. Now, what are the difference or degrees of knowledge? Brahman knowledge, Paramātmā knowledge, and Bhagavān knowledge. The same thing. The knowledge of sunshine, the knowledge of sun globe, and the knowledge of this predominating deity in the sun globe. So knowledge of sunshine is not knowledge of the predominating deity of the sun globe. There is another example in this connection. Just like if you see one hill from a long-distant place, first of all you see just like it is a cloud. Then, if you proceed further, you'll see something green. And if you enter into that hill you'll see, oh, there are so many varieties. There are animals, there are men, there are trees. But from the distant, you'll see just like a cloud. So although the same thing... Similarly, Absolute, when visioned from the Brahman point of view, it is just like cloud. Absolute when visioned as Paramātmā, it is just like something green. And Absolute when realized as the Supreme Person, it is just like you enter into the hill and see everything in detail. So although the focus is the same, the Brahmavādī and the Paramātmāvadī and the devotee's focus is the same, but due to their respective position the realization is different. These things are very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Just like... What to speak of ordinary man. President Kennedy. Oh, how much labor he had to undergo to occupy that post, how much money he spent to become president. But he had to quit his family, his wife, his state, his post. So this is going on. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). For sometimes we are engaged in this way; then again we are annihilated. Again begin another life, enter into another mother's womb, construct another body, then come out, then again begin work, again the same thing, digging and piling, digging and piling, again going away. Is that very good business? This is the karmīs. Karmīs means worker, fruitive worker. They want some result for their work. They are called karmīs. So the karmīs are engaged in this way. (Doorbell rings) In Bhagavad-gītā these karmīs have been described as rascals, mūḍha. Mūḍha. Because they do not know why they are digging, why they are piling and why they are leaving again everything. You can sit here, in the corner. I, I... Ask these boys, yes. This is the problem. The whole world is engaged very busy. Any city you go, they're very busy. The motor car is going this way, that way, and everywhere is constructing and so many things are going on. But if you put this question, "Why you are doing this business, digging somewhere and piling somewhere, again leaving the whole thing?"... (Aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. They have no answer.
Prabhupāda: Energy, being nondifferent from God, in one sense, it is God, but energy is not God at the same time. The same example. Just like sun and the sunshine. Sunshine is the energy of the sun, but sunshine, if it enters in your room, if you think that "Sun has entered into my room," that is wrong. But sunshine is not different from the sun. Similarly... That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagat avyakta-mūrtinā, mat-sthāni... (BG 9.4). (break) "Everything is resting in Me." That means in His energy. But not that everything is God.
Guest (3): It would appear that to claim that you can reach eternal bliss or I don't know what else you might call it, by just chanting, it seems to be too easy.
Prabhupāda: That is one process of self-realization. There are different process of self-realization. For this age, when people are less intelligent, this process is right.
Guest (2): ...what you are doing by chanting is kind of...
Prabhupāda: You chant and you will understand. If you have no child, then how can you understand what is the labor of producing a child?
Guest (3): But then it is like saying that if you haven't ever leaped into a well, you don't know what will happen to you if you leap into a well.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, they automatically come back because he is hankering after varieties. So that variety is not there, so he is attracted again in the material world. Just like so many sannyāsīs. Take Vivekananda. He wanted to lecture on Vedānta, which is liberation. He came again back to the hospitalizing and philanthropic work because he could not find the variety of pleasure in Vedānta. Of course, he was not very much advanced. There are many. There is a... Sannyāsī is here. he's a Kārpātrī. He is very learned and other... He was formerly speaking on Vedānta and other... Now he is in politics and cow protection. You see? There are many.
Revatīnandana: I have a hazy memory that one time I heard that when a soul, when it finally does enter into brahma-jyotir, that he has to remain there for some long duration of time, a daytime of Brahmā or a lifetime of Brahmā. Is that correct? What is that duration?
Prabhupāda: Not that. That is not like that.
Revatīnandana: Not like that. Thank you.
Prabhupāda: But he feels inconvenience without varieties of life. The Bhāgavata says, tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ: "Their intelligence is not clean." Arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ: (SB 10.2.32) "Although they rise up to the brahma-jyotir," patanty adho tataḥ, "they again come back."
Haṁsadūta: And the nirvāṇa conception of life is just before Brahman?
Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa conception is marginal position between brahma-jyotir and this material world.
Haṁsadūta: Just on the brink.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Therefore that is the beginning of knowledge. That is the beginning, adau śraddhā. That is stated in the śāstra: adau śraddhā, faith. Then if you have got śraddhā, then ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). Suppose if you are, if you are very much anxious, you have got faith to understand Kṛṣṇa, then next step is to associate with persons who know Kṛṣṇa. Just like you are doing some business, so you have to enter into some association, businessmen, to understand the business from them. Similarly, if you have faith in Kṛṣṇa, then you have to understand Him through the association of devotees. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgau (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). Atha bhajana-kriyā. Then as soon as you have... Just as these boys, they came to me. After association they wanted to be initiated: "Swami, please initiate." That is called bhajana-kriyā. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ atha bhajana kriyā. And if you are performing bhajana kriyā nicely, then anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt, then all misgivings will go away.
Reporter: Anartha visya.
Prabhupāda: Anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Then nobody will question. All questions will be anartha-nivṛttiḥ, all doubts gone. Then niṣṭhā, firm faith. Then firm faith, niṣṭhā. Then taste. Whenever there is Kṛṣṇa topics, immediately you go. Tato niṣṭhā...
Reporter: Taste?
Prabhupāda: Taste, ruciḥ.
Prabhupāda: The significance..., there is no significance. These professional Bhāgavata readers, they make money from the public because public wants to hear all these things. Just like we read a novel-a woman is embracing a man, or kissing or having sex. They like it. Therefore they go the Bhāgavata Tenth Canto immediately. Their Bhāgavata reading is professional, not understanding of Kṛṣṇa. If you want to understand Kṛṣṇa, then go step by step, one by one. First of all read Bhagavad-gītā, try to understand, and you surrender to Kṛṣṇa as Kṛṣṇa says, then you enter. Just like after passing entrance examination you enter into the college. Similarly, when you are qualified in accepting Kṛṣṇa as all in all, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66), then you enter into Bhāgavata. Bhāgavata is the graduate study, not ordinary study. But these professionals, they take advantage of the weakness of the people, and they make profession and earn some money. That's all. When we speak of Bhāgavata we speak from First Canto, Second Canto, Third Canto..., the nine cantos to understand Kṛṣṇa. Just like in First Canto the beginning, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya, janmādy asya yataḥ. This is Vedānta-sūtra verse. Paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. (Hindi) Kṛṣṇa for perfect knowledge, then you'll understand what is kṛṣṇa-līlā. (end)
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Śyāmasundara: Yes, one can see Kṛṣṇa on three different levels of realization. The one level is this impersonal brahma-jyotir-merging level. That is called the elementary step, the first step towards God realization. And then the second step is when one realizes that God is isolated or localized within his heart, and this is the stage the great yogis and mystics attain. They are able to control their travel and attain other certain mystic powers. And then the highest step of self-realization is when one realizes God is the supreme person and meets Him face to face and spends his eternal life in the association of God in a personal relationship. There are five different kinds of personal relationships one can have with God: as His friend, as His father or His parent, or as His servant, like that, or as His lover. So if one, if one comes to this stage of realization, that "I am part and parcel of God," that "God is a person; therefore I am a person, and I remain person eternally," then he gets fixed up in his final, original, constitutional position, relationship, and there is no more higher place to go. So... And in this relationship, he understands that "Because God is very great and I am very small, then my position is to serve God." So I engage in a personal serving relationship, with a personal serving mode. In this way I'm always satisfied. I'm always relating with God, in everything I do, serving Him with everything I have. And this is where the spiritual master is the representative of Kṛṣṇa because he engages us in serving Kṛṣṇa. Just like there may be some big man and you want to enter into his service and meet this big man, but you have no qualification. But if this big man has a friend who is also your friend, this friend can introduce you and engage you somehow in this big man's service. This is the duty of the spiritual master. He accepts a disciple to make sure and guarantee that that disciple will meet God face to face, if he follows his orders.
Prabhupāda: Now answer, question, try to understand. What he has explained, have you understood?
Prabhupāda: Law of gravity... The big, big planets are floating in the air. Now you can explain how it is it's floating. The hint is already there in the Bhagavad-gītā, that He enters. Viṣṭabhyā idaṁ kṛtsnam ekāṁśena sthito jagat (BG 10.42), (Sanskrit) that "I enter into this universe, and by My prowess they are floating." These hints are there. Now you are a scientist; if you are actually devotee, then you try to explain from your scientific explanation that this floating is possible because God has entered within it. That is your duty. And because you're scientist, your explanation from the scientific point of view, how God has entered, how He is acting, that will be very well received by the public. So that will be great service. Actually that is the fact. It is already stated there that "I enter." We can understand. Yes, we believe. I'll explain. Just like that balloon. What is that gas? Hydrogen gas?
Martin: Helium.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Martin: Helium gas.
Prabhupāda: Helium gas. So that helium gas has entered within the balloon and it is floating. (laughter) So if the helium gas can float, cannot God float? If helium gas has so much power, God is less than helium gas or He is more than helium gas? So what is the difficulty to understand? God says, "I enter." So similarly, the helium gas enters and it makes possible that it floats.
Prabhupāda: So what is the difficulty to understand? I see in my eyes. So He can become big helium gas. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya: (BG 7.8) "I am the taste of the water." Water is important. We are drinking water for the taste. That taste is Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, if you explain this law of gravitation, which we have discovered, is Kṛṣṇa, prove it by your scientific knowledge, that will be your service. Actually that is a fact. That is the fact. But you have to explain, just like I have given you this example. This is scientific. As you can float a balloon by creating helium gas, so there must be some gas like that; Kṛṣṇa enters into each and every planet or universe and it floats, that's all. They, not only the planets are floating, the universes are also floating. So you accept this theory or not? If not, clearly explain.
Martin: I, I, I cannot reject it.
Prabhupāda: That's...
Martin: Because you know more about it than I do.
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. That should be the attitude. That is the way of understanding. Upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ. Those who are Tattva-darśiḥ, those who have seen the truth, we have to take knowledge from them. That is the direction in the Bhagavad-gītā, not from the third-class men. One who has seen, one who has known, you have to take knowledge from him, tattva-darśiḥ. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). You have to understand by surrendering, by rendering service and by question, three things. You cannot question simply. There must be service and surrender; then question will be nice. And if all of a sudden you come and question, that answer will not be sufficient. So I am drinking this water because there is taste. At this time, if you can give me some other juice, I'll not like. I'll like to take, drink water, because there is particular taste that will satisfy my thirst. That thirst-quenching taste is Kṛṣṇa. So immediately you can remember Kṛṣṇa, "Here is Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya (BG 7.8).
Prabhupāda: Huh? They're drinking, they're eating meat, they're gambling and they are having illicit sex, and they are preaching. And we say, "First of all stop these things, then claim yourself to be religious, or God conscious." You cannot indulge in all these things. (aside:) Oh, you have kept my one cloth outside?
Devotee: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's outside.
Prabhupāda: Because I may require in the.... So, we don't want to enter into arguments, but we must know, but if somebody comes to argument, we have to say. What can be done? We say that "You follow Christianity in perfect order, you'll be benefited." That we say. Our test is whether you're advancing in God consciousness. That is our test. You follow Christianity or Muhammadanism, anything you follow, we don't mind. Whether you are developing your God consciousness, love for God, that is our test. But if your process has failed, then you can try this. And you'll see, in our process within so short time, how they are becoming God conscious. You have to admit. And they admit also.
Viṣṇujana: They're not getting any young priests.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Viṣṇujana: They're not getting young priests. Only this movement is getting young priests.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Very young. Just from the womb of the mother. (laughter) Yes?
Devotee: (indistinct) go Śrīla Prabhupāda.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: But that means that is not... Originally, it is from life. Seed is from the life. So where is your proof that matter produces life? Then you have to accept: life produces life. According to our śāstra, within the semina of the father, the living body, living entity, takes shelter. And it is injected to the mother's womb and the two matters mixes and the body forms. This is our śāstric explanation. Not that the semina discharged by the father, that is life. No. Within that semina, the living entity takes shelter. And it is put into favorable condition. Then it develops the body. This is... We, we find in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That putting of the living entity in a particular type of semina depends on higher authorities. The higher authorities will judge what kind of body this living entity, after leaving this body, will get. So by higher authority it will be directed to enter into the semina of such father, and it will be injected into the womb of the mother. Then you'll get, develop a particular type of body and come out and suffer or enjoy. This is the process.
Brahmānanda: If that semina is misused or wasted, then that disrupts the plan of the authorities.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: It's a serious matter.
Prabhupāda: Therefore this contraceptive method is sinful activity. Abortion, contraceptive method. This is against the, I mean to say, plan of the Supreme. Just like the government is making some plan, and if you spoil it, you are criminal. What is the time now?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Whatever desire the living entities had before the annihilation, that became the, the living entities enter into different bodies according to their...
Prabhupāda: Desire.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...desire.
Prabhupāda: He wanted a certain type of life. So nature gives him. "All right, take this body." He desires in a certain way, means he's associating with the quality of nature in a method, and according to that association, he's getting a particular type of body. Mind, mind is the creative force. Thinking. Thinking, feeling, willing. These are the psychological functions. So, first of all, thinking. Then he develops to work. And it is work you get a particular type of situation. (Break) One enters into the body of a pig. Then he'll have to go under the evolutionary process. Just like if you, if you are on the topmost staircase. Somehow or other you fall down. Then again you have to go, step by step. This is the... The steps are always there. Not that the steps are created for you. No. The steps are already there.
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it is dirty.
Prabhupāda: So in the beginning they're faithless. Faith is that kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva... Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). When he captures this slogan, that "Simply by surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, I shall be all-successful," this is the beginning of faith. Bhagavad-gītā creates this faith. But one who does not take even this faith, how he'll make progress. Progress means the progress of the same faith, up to the love of Godhead. That is perfection of faith. So these are the stages. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā tato 'nartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭhā rucis tataḥ, athāsaktis tato bhāvaḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). These are the stages. So this institution is meant for training people from different stages, and beginning with this faith, that kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta... "Simply by becoming devotee of Kṛṣṇa, my life will be perfect." This faith is the basic principle. So unless one comes to this basic principle of faith, there is no question of progress. So little faith, even. Not full faith. It develops by sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83), by association with the devotees. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). Everything is there. If we adopt, then everyone can make his life successful. There is no doubt about it. Just like if you enter into a school, if you follow the regulative principles of the school and study, you, one day, you become M.A. Where is the difficulty? Where is the difficulty? But if from the beginning, if you have no faith, then what progress you'll make? If you, from the very beginning, if you think, "What will be, this school will do me? They're learning ABCD. What...?" (laughter) There is no faith. You may call it blind faith. But that is required.
Revatīnandana: Yes. Because all of our attention is lodged in the mind and the senses, and we are lost to ourselves, so any kind of self-realization process means that you have to control the mind and senses or you cannot be self-situated. Beyond being situated in the self, there may be more, but that's the first point. That's the basic point of yoga.
Student (2): Where does Kṛṣṇa fit into it? Where does Kṛṣṇa fit into the yoga?
Revatīnandana: He wants to know... If being self-situated is one thing, then where does Kṛṣṇa enter into the system? That's his question.
Prabhupāda: Self-situated. When you are self-situated... Just like in the water you are taking bath in a pool. Something has fallen on the water. Suppose your key has fallen. Now you'll have to find out. You are just trying to settle up the water and see where is the key. So when your mind and senses are controlled, then you can talk of Kṛṣṇa. Before that you cannot talk. Because Kṛṣṇa is missing, with uncontrolled mind, senses, you cannot capture Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. The same example. When the water is agitated, you cannot see where your things have fallen. You have to wait to make the water calm and quiet. Then you'll see, "Here is my key."
Student (2): What are the ways in which... How can we get to Kṛṣṇa? How do you get to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: You come here. Take this. Sixth chapter, the practice of yoga. The process.
Pradyumna: Should I read from the beginning?
Prabhupāda: I am coming, yes. (break) ...dehaṁ punar janma naiti. Such person, those who are fully absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, such person, after giving up this body, does not accept any more material body. He goes back to Kṛṣṇa. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). "He comes to Me." So you cannot go to Kṛṣṇa unless you have your spiritual body. Because the spiritual world and Kṛṣṇa, they are all spiritual. So you cannot enter into fire unless you are fire. So you have to revive your spiritual body, spiritual consciousness. Then, after giving up this body, you enter the spiritual world. So Lord Buddha did not speak anything about the spiritual world, but his philosophy said that "Dismantle this material existence." Nirvāṇa. Nobody has preached that "You become happy here," either Lord Buddha or Lord Christ or Kṛṣṇa or anybody, Śaṅkara. Nobody. But modern materialistic people, they are thinking that "We can become happy by adjustment of our material condition." That is not possible.
Buddhist Monk (1): They want to have the cake and eat it.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Buddhist Monk (1): They want to have the cake and eat it. They want to have two paradises, one here and one there also.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Buddhist Monk (1): And they want to bite.
Prabhupāda: And ignorance. If we give service in ignorance, without knowing what is what, that kind of service may lead us to become punished. So we must know what kind of service we shall give. So real suffering of the society, human society, or any society you take, real suffering is, because the living entity has forgotten God, so he is being punished in different way by the material nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So many ways. But everyone is being punished. At least, the three kinds... Why three kinds? That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā, that this is also punishment, repetition of birth and death. This is also punishment. Because we are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). We are spirit soul, we are eternal. So our, this constant change of body, birth and death, that is also punishment. Because nobody wants to die. Because he is eternal. How he'll like to die? He wants to keep his eternal position, but he, because he's criminal... Just like one man is condemned to die, murderer. So he has to die. But he wants to protect himself, placing himself in the court, "How to save? How to save?" So that is our natural tendency, that we do not want to die. Why? Because we are eternal. We have got the prerogative. So if... Anyone does not want to die. Anyone does not want to take birth even. Now we have forgotten. Otherwise, in the womb of the mother, everyone knows that we are kept in such a way, in a packed, compact water bag, without any facility to move, not only for one day, two day, but ten months. Medical science knows, everyone knows. And at that time there are worms in the womb of the mother. They're taking the advantage, delicate skin. They also bite. And he cannot make any protest. He moves sometimes. The child moves. These are the sufferings. But we do not take care. If I have to take birth again, then I have to go, again enter into the womb of the mother, and, to develop my body and in such precarious condition, the body will develop. So there is suffering. There is suffering of birth, and at the time of death there is suffering. And between birth and death, there is duration of life, there is disease, there is old age, and what to speak of other sufferings. That we may not mention. But at least these four sufferings are there. Therefore the best service is to save him from this suffering. That is the service.
Prabhupāda: So what is that? Nirvāṇa means zero. Everyone is trying for the zero?
Yogeśvara: (break) Nirvāṇa means something different for them?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Yogeśvara: (break) He says it is an entering into something that is alive and real.
Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa, this word is Sanskrit word. Nirvāṇa means finish. (break)
Yogeśvara: For them the word nirvāṇa means an end but an end to this material existence and an entrance into the silence of the Absolute, onto a level that is real, whereas this one is false. This one is rejected.
Prabhupāda: Why silence?
Yogeśvara: He says the term "entering into silence" is a mystic term that means...
Prabhupāda: He cannot explain. (break)
Yogeśvara: ...it is undescribable because it's something that's arrived at inside through meditation. You can't really describe it in words?
Prabhupāda: So what is the process?
Yogeśvara: I don't care to talk about them here.
Prabhupāda: Then how can I accept it? I cannot enter into some vague thing.
Yogeśvara: All the systems have to do with meditation, concentration, things that will reawaken your consciousness.
Prabhupāda: What is the object of meditation?
Yogeśvara: (break) ...different objects, many different.
Prabhupāda: But tell one of them.
Yogeśvara: The body for example. (break) He says that there is "the eternal meditation number three."
Prabhupāda: So what is the number one?
Yogeśvara: He says that this one is one that's basic. It is given to all their students.
Prabhupāda: Number three, and no number one. (break)
Guru-gaurāṅga: ...that forms his identity is Maurice Belfiore, but the interior, that reality, is different. (break) If we all join up here now in silence and we enter into ourselves and create one person, then we will know who we are from that silence.
Prabhupāda: But how it is possible to become silent?
Yogeśvara: ...many, many births and deaths.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That's all right. That's all right. Now talk (break)
Yogeśvara: ...privilege for him to be here amongst us.
Prabhupāda: Thank him.
Guru-gaurāṅga: Thank you very much and he is going to tell the grandmaster about you.
Yogeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in San Jose, California, their grand emperor of the movement has his, their headquarters. And he said one day perhaps there would be the opportunity...
Prabhupāda: No, we have got our temple. (end)
Prabhupāda: Yes, in the past. You forgot, but in the past you had life. Just like in the past I was young man. That's a fact. Similarly, but that young body is no more existing. Similarly, I had a past life but I have forgotten. That is the... Forgetfulness is our nature. Death means forgetting what was your first, past life. That is by nature you become forgetful because if you remember our past life and compare with this life... Suppose one was very rich man and if he becomes a poor, a cat and dog, then if he remembers, then it is very unbearable for him. Therefore nature helps him to forget. Forget. Otherwise he cannot do it. But the real problem is that we are eternal soul, we are changing our body one after another, birth and death. Apart from worldly happiness and distress, this birth and death, that is not very good process. At death time we have to suffer so much that we give up this body. And then again we enter into the womb of a mother. That is not very good situation. Then when come out there are so many tribulations, disease, then again old age. So people do not understand that he is passing... Especially when we are in other than human life. There are 8,400,000 species of life. Aquatics, then birds, trees, plants, insects, then beasts. In this way we come to human form of life. This is evolution. So in this human form of life there is chance of understanding the problems of life. In other forms of life it is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, that is the process. Evolution means to come to that end, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is real evolution. If one misses the chance, then again falls down. But the natural progress is that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But ultimately he will come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes, ultimately everyone will come to Kṛṣṇa. Not Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but Kṛṣṇa. At the end of this world, devastation, they enter into the body of Kṛṣṇa. They remain there.
Hṛdayānanda: That wouldn't be very good for a devotee.
Prabhupāda: Huh? But they have no sense. These birds are feedies(?) or their bodily extension is so much. I think they're feedies(?).
Hṛdayānanda: They're what.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: What? Very nice.
Prabhupāda: Just see how they are experienced. They're not afraid of the ocean, although they are very small. They know how to save him. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Kṛṣṇa is there within the heart. They are giving, "Now get off." They immediately get off.
Hṛdayānanda: Boy. That's Viṣṇu within their heart?
Karandhara: They want that perfection, but they want it with this body and its paraphernalia. They don't want to give this body up.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this body can also be perfect. But you do not know how to make it.
Prajāpati: Devotees are beginning more and more, Śrīla Prabhupāda, under your instruction, to enter into politics. But the political leaders, they will claim, "Well you have no experience. How can you be qualified to...?"
Prabhupāda: No, we have got experience. If there is a good man, he'll do, he'll act very nice. That we have got experience. Just like if a man is honest, you can trust him. This is our experience. So similarly, if the leaders be good according to this standard, then the whole human society will be happy. This is our propaganda. We are not after the post, but we have to disclose this rascaldom, that "All these rascals, animals, fools, they are taking the post of leader, and you are suffering repeatedly, but you have no sense that 'How we can be happy with this Nixon and company's leadership?' " So therefore we want to disclose the fact, that's all. We have no ambition. Just like we are brāhmaṇas. We have nothing to do, but according to Vedic civilization, the brāhmaṇas guides the kṣatriyas how to rule. So our position is to reform the politicians. We are not going to compete with them, we have no business, neither we have time. But because people are suffering—we want everyone to be happy-therefore we want to reform these rascals. That is our goal. What we shall do taking part in politics? We have no business. But our real aim is how people will be happy. That is our real aim. So these rascals are leading, misleading. Therefore we want to check them. Is that all right? Is that all right?
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Motikama (?) is grammar. Poetry for grammar.
Dr. Patel: Meghadūta I studied. (Sanskrit) (break)
Prabhupāda: ...for materialistic persons.
Dr. Patel: No, but they're also... In several places he had entered into high philosophy. It's not only the... Kavidhara (?)... There can never be a kavi without philosophy in him.
Prabhupāda: Philosophy. Yes, yes.
Dr. Patel: All, even the modern kavis.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Philosophy is the very soul of kavi.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Kavitā.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: I have found it out.
Prabhupāda: Compact in thought.
Prabhupāda: And again there is kalpa. Again they come out. In this way they do not become liberated. Just like the child, those who are being, what is called, contraceptive method, abortion. These are very sinful. Because they have done killing, so they enter into the mother's womb and they are again killed, and again enter into the mother's womb, and again killed. He does not see the light. Similarly, those who are sinful, they are given chance in material manifestation, "Now work for Kṛṣṇa consciousness." But they do not do that. Again enters, again come out. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). This is going on. How much they are wasting their time, not taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Dr. Patel:
- prakṛtiṁ svām avaṣṭabhya
- visṛjāmi punaḥ punaḥ
- bhūta-grāmam imaṁ kṛtsnam
- avaśaṁ prakṛter vaśāt
Prabhupāda: Now visṛjāmi. The Gods, He creates. Here they comes. The rascals, they do not believe it, that "There is no creator." The Jains, they do not believe it, that creator has done it. "It has come automatically." Buddhist philosophy is like that, that "Everything is coming by combination..."
Dr. Patel: Prakṛti and puruṣa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is wrong theory. Actually, He says visṛjāmi, ahaṁ visṛjāmi: "I do."
Dr. Patel: Prakṛtiṁ svām avaṣṭabhya: "Controlling my prakṛti."
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is wrong theory. Actually, He says visṛjāmi, ahaṁ visṛjāmi: "I do."
Dr. Patel: Prakṛtiṁ svām avaṣṭabhya: "Controlling my prakṛti."
Prabhupāda: Avaṣṭabhya, now entering.
Dr. Patel: "Entering into My prakṛti, I am sṛjāmi, punaḥ punaḥ."
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. He is outside; He is inside.
Indian: And then leave it in the control of the prakṛti, prakṛter vaśāt, avaṣaṁ prakṛter vaṣāt. Bhūta-grāmam imaṁ kṛtsnam avaṣām prakṛter vaśāt.
Prabhupāda: Bhūta-grāmam, not He.
Dr. Patel: Bhūta-grāmam, is due to the prakṛti, after creating the bhūtas.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes, ady anta, this creation. Before this creation, Kṛṣṇa was there. Kṛṣṇa was there. When the creation is going on, it is maintained by Kṛṣṇa, and when it is dissolved, then it enters into Kṛṣṇa. Prakṛtiṁ yānti māmikam.
Dr. Patel: Aham ātmā guḍākeśa sarva-bhūtāśaya-sthitaḥ.
Prabhupāda: "And I am ātmā, Guḍākeśa. I am ātmā. Therefore, because My part and parcel is spreading, so that part and parcel, particle, that is the basic principle of everything." Just like this body. This body is based on that part and particle, soul. Because the soul was there, the body has developed.
Dr. Patel: Otherwise body would perish. It does rot.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The body develops so long the ātmā is there. So similarly, because Kṛṣṇa is there, therefore whatever manifestation you see, that is due to Kṛṣṇa. Now here the latest theory of the rascals, that life has come from matter, is refuted.
Dr. Patel: That is Carvaka's theory, this Karl Marx, the communists.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now He says aham. Aham is living entity. So living entity is the origin of everything.
Girirāja: (reads synonyms) "Translation: O lotus-eyed one, I have heard from You in detail about the appearance and disappearance of every living entity, as realized through Your inexhaustible glories." (reads next synonyms) "O greatest of all personalities, O supreme form, though I see here before me Your actual position, yet I wish to see how You have entered into this cosmic manifestation."
Prabhupāda: Entered. So just like it is to be understood. He's very intelligent. Now, I am... As soul, my magnitude is described. What is that? Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (CC Madhya 19.140). Keśa agra, the tip of the hair, divide into hundred parts. And again take that one part and again divide into hundred parts. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (CC Madhya 19.140). Now, it is simply, it is to be imagined. Kalpitasya. Jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ. That is the magnitude of the jīva. Now, that magnitude of jīva has entered in this body or in the elephant's body. Now, which is important, the body is important or that small particle is important?
Dr. Patel: Small particle is important.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Therefore those who are materialistic persons, they are amazed with the huge body of this universe. But Arjuna is saying that "On account of Your entering..." As this body has developed on account of entering, that minute particle or spiritual spark, similarly, there are innumerable universes. All these universes, they have developed. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Jaya. (break) ...Kṛṣṇa's entering as Garbhodakaśayī Viṣṇu. That is explained in the last chapter.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Therefore those who are materialistic persons, they are amazed with the huge body of this universe. But Arjuna is saying that "On account of Your entering..." As this body has developed on account of entering, that minute particle or spiritual spark, similarly, there are innumerable universes. All these universes, they have developed. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Jaya. (break) ...Kṛṣṇa's entering as Garbhodakaśayī Viṣṇu. That is explained in the last chapter.
- athavā bahunaitena
- kim jñātena tavārjuna
- vistabhyāham idaṁ kṛstnam
- ekāṁśena sthito jagat
- (BG 10.42)
By His one plenary portion, by entering into this material world, so gigantic form is there. Therefore they cannot understand that how Kṛṣṇa, just like a human being, he can be more important than this gigantic cosmic manifestation.
Dr. Patel: Shall I read further?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...leaders, they are entering into the mouth of the kāla just like insects. "Phat! Phat! Phat! Phat! Phat! Phat!" Although within their lifetime they were very, very big leaders, but they are entering into the mouth of the kāla just like insects and flies. That's it. (break) ...plans, but there is no plan how to stop...
Dr. Patel: Death.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, how to stop this forceful entering into the mouth of the kāla. Just like a very good example: When there is fire and all the insects and flies, "Phat! Phat! Phat! Phat! Phat!" That's it. Attracted by the beauty. Similarly, all these big, big leaders, being attracted, bahir-artha-māninaḥ... They have been described in Bhāgavata, bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are thinking this beautiful nature as everything, "There is no other thing."
Dr. Patel: There is very good description in Twelfth..., these things. (break)
Girirāja: "I see all people rushing with full speed into your mouths as moths dash into a blazing fire." (break)
Prabhupāda: The doctors also will enter. (laughter) Not only the patient, but the doctors also. Don't think that doctors will be excused. (laughter) No, no. That is not possible.
Dr. Patel: (reads next verse 11.21 in Sanskrit)
Girirāja: (reads synonyms) "Translation: All the demigods are surrendering and entering into You. They are very much afraid, and with folded hands they are singing the Vedic hymns."
Prabhupāda: When the demigods... They have to offer prayers to the Lord, instead of... How they can be worshiped on the equal level of God? How can they be worshiped on the...? That is forbidden. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ deva. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (some people come) Yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devaṁ brahma-rudrādi-daivataiḥ, samatvena vikṣeta sa pāṣāṇḍī bhaved dhruvam (CC Madhya 18.116). Nārāyaṇam devam, the Supreme Personality of God Nārāyaṇa, if one makes Him on the equal position with such big, big demigods like Brahmā, Rudra, so immediately he becomes a pāṣāṇḍī. And now they are comparing with the daridra. Just see.
Dr. Patel: Now again you are going that way. Shall I read on?
Prabhupāda: No, no, this is a fact, you must understand. You do not know. You must know it. You must know it. Nārāyaṇa cannot be compared with Brahmā, Rudra, and these rascals have compared Him with daridra. Just see, how much rascal they are.
Indian man (3): Illustration.
Prabhupāda: Ah.
Mahāṁśa: He used to be running for the chief ministership. He's very, very popular, but there was some mischief he did, for which he was taken to court and exposed.
Prabhupāda: What is that mischief?
Mahāṁśa: I don't remember exactly, but he was taken to court and exposed and he was expelled from entering into any...
Prabhupāda: Party.
Mahāṁśa: ...any elections for five years. So now his period is finishing, his five years is finishing, and he is going to stand again, and seems that he's very, very popular, he has a good chance. And he's our Life Member...
Prabhupāda: Oh, he's a Life Member?
Mahāṁśa: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: He studies our books?
Mahāṁśa: Oh, yes, he has taken our books and he especially asked that "I am reading these books and please give me." And he attended all the three days of the exhibition grounds.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Prabhupāda: That is answered, sva-rāṭ. "Independent." That is God.
O'Grady: Independ...?
Prabhupāda: Independent. He is fully independent. He does not require to take lessons from anyone. That is God. That is God. If anyone requires to take lesson from other, he is not God. Who does not require to take lesson from other, that is God.
O'Grady: Where does human love enter into it?
Prabhupāda: Everything is there. Because love is also coming from God. So we are being part and parcel of God, there is part and parcel manifestation of love because the original love is there in God. Because nothing can exist. Nothing can exist if it is not in God.
O'Grady: Therefore we love.
Prabhupāda: The love is also there in God.
O'Grady: But God is not love?
Prabhupāda: God is love. God is everything.
O'Grady: Oh, yeah. Then love is God.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
O'Grady: Our manifestations of love are manifestations of God.
Prabhupāda: Viṣṇur mahān, Mahā-Viṣṇu, yasya iha kalā-viśeṣo govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. So the Mahā-Viṣṇu, the origin of the material creation... There is Mahā-Viṣṇu in the Causal Ocean. From Him the Garbhodakaśāyī-Viṣṇu enters into each and every universe. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ (Bs. 5.48). So jagad-aṇḍa-nātha is Brahmā. So he is produced on the Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. And this Garbhodakaśāyī-Viṣṇu is expansion of Mahā-Viṣṇu. And Mahā-Viṣṇu is kalā viśeṣaḥ, partial expansion of Kṛṣṇa. Yasya hi, yasya hi. What is that? You have Brahma-saṁhitā?
Devotee: You have a copy downstairs.
Yogeśvara: Yasya prabhā prabhavataḥ (Bs. 5.40).
Prabhupāda: No, that is another. Yasya niśvasita-kālam avalambya. Mahā-Viṣṇu is breathing. So taking advantage of that breathing, innumerable universes are generating. And each universe, there is a superintending deity who is called Brahmā. Yasya hi niśvasita-kālam. Kālam atha avalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ. Many hundreds and millions of Brahmās there are. They live, only taking advantage of the breathing period of Mahā-Viṣṇu. (break) Mahā-Viṣṇu is sub-plenary portion. First Kṛṣṇa, then Balarāma, then Saṅkarṣaṇa, Pradyumna, Aniruddha, Vāsudeva. Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa. Then, from Saṅkarṣaṇa, Nārāyaṇa. Then, from Nārāyaṇa, again catur-vyūha, second Saṅkarṣaṇa, Vāsudeva, Aniruddha. And from the second Saṅkarṣaṇa is Mahā-Viṣṇu. And from Mahā-Viṣṇu, Kāraṇodakaśāyī-Viṣṇu. And from Kāraṇodakaśāyī-Viṣṇu, Kṣīrodakaśāyī-Viṣṇu. The Kṣīrodakaśāyī-Viṣṇu is in each universe. He is the Supersoul. And when any incarnation comes within this world, He comes through Kṣīrodakaśāyī-Viṣṇu. In that way, Kṛṣṇa comes through Kṣīrodakaśāyī-Viṣṇu. But this Kṣīrodakaśāyī-Viṣṇu is the expansion of the expansion of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Yogeśvara: There's a theory of the psychologists that—in some ways it's similar to our idea—that people are conditioned, that according to their environment, according to their upbringing, according to their parentage and so on, they have a kind of way of acting and thinking. So their argument is that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is just another kind of conditioning, that you leave one kind of conditioning, a material conditioning, but then you also enter into another kind of conditioning when you live in the temple.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is conditioning, certainly. The position is that you must be under certain condition. That is your position. So if you become conditioned by God, that is your perfection. And if you become conditioned by māyā, that is your trouble. You must be conditioned. That is your position. You cannot be independent. And therefore, if you become naturally conditioned, then that is your happy life. Just as child, he must be conditioned. But when he is conditioned by his parents, that is his perfection of life. Your position is that you must be conditioned. Why you are thinking to be independent? That is your rascaldom. You should always know that "I must be conditioned. That is my life." Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). Condition. Still conditioned, but daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, under the spiritual nature. That is Mahātmā. Mahātmā is not independent. He is also conditioned. So first of all, we must understand that our natural position is to be conditioned. Now, why, where I shall be conditioned? Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). You condition here. "You become conditioned by Me. Then you will be happy." Those who are thinking that "We shall not be conditioned," they are still in māyā. You cannot be without condition.
Prabhupāda: Just like Kaṁsa associated with Kṛṣṇa always, their position is like that. That is not bhakti. Bhakti is ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167), favorable, not to reject Kṛṣṇa or kill Kṛṣṇa, and think of Kṛṣṇa, "How to kill Him? How to kill Him? How to kill Him?" That is also Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but that is not favorable. Therefore it is not bhakti. But they get the salvation because they have some way or other thought of Kṛṣṇa. Impersonal salvation. They are not allowed to enter into the pastimes of Kṛṣṇa.
Satsvarūpa: In the beginning of devotional service, the concentration is on the service more than on Kṛṣṇa the person.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: But then gradually, as we serve and serve and concentrate on the service, then there's realization.
Prabhupāda: Yes, realization comes.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Of who we're serving.
Prabhupāda: The disciple serves Kṛṣṇa under the direction of spiritual master. Vidhi-mārga, regulative principles. Vidhi-mārga, rāga-mārga. (break) ...gunarna jata nat krta mukha santi (?). So, I think it is mud.
Satsvarūpa: Here it's getting more and more moist, dew. (break)
Prabhupāda: In another place it is said asaṁśaya, that is in the Eighteenth Chapter. So to go back to home, back to Godhead, is very easy, but people will not take to it. They are stubborn; they will stick here, the miserable life, material life. This is the difficulty. Otherwise, God can be achieved very easily. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Four things.
- yoginām api sarveṣāṁ
- mad-gatenāntarātmanā
- śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ
- sa me yukta(tamo mataḥ)
- (BG 6.47)
The first-class yogis. Actually no education required. Simply God has given us the tongue and the ear. So it's Hare Kṛṣṇa, tongue, and hear with the ear. Śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir: by hearing, the sound enters into the heart. In this way you become purified, mind is cleansed, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). It is very scientific and very easy. And we are recommending—"we" means Caitanya Mahāprabhu—He says that "You chant the name of God." Now, if somebody thinks "Kṛṣṇa is Hindu God, why shall I chant?" it doesn't matter. You chant your conception of God. What is the name of God in Christianity? Is there any name?
French Man: Jehovah.
Prabhupāda: Jehovah?
Prabhupāda: The Communist propaganda is like that. They send the people to the church, "So you pray." So they pray. "Have you got bread?" They say, "No, sir." "Now pray to us." "Give us, sir," and he gives hundreds of breads. In this way, they are making atheist. Because common man cannot argue, neither they know so much logic. But if there is some intelligent man, he will ask immediately that "Wherefrom you have got this bread? Who has given you the wheat? That you have not manufactured; that is given by God." So actually God gives, but the Communists take the credit that "I give." This is the misconception. If God does not supply you... Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān, He is supplying for everyone. So if He does not supply, then what your bakery machine will do? It is useless. So people have lost the intelligence in the Communist countries. They think that these government men, they have brought the bread, not God. In this way, they are gradually becoming atheist. But the central point is God. We are preaching the central point is God. You call Him by any name, it doesn't matter, either you call Jehovah or Kṛṣṇa or something, Allah, that doesn't matter. But you accept the authority of God and try to love God. This is our mission. And we say God is person. Impersonal feature, that is a feature only. Just like sun-god is a person and the sunshine is one of the feature of the sun-god. The sunshine is not final. You have to penetrate to the sunshine and reach the sun globe and go within the globe and see that there is the sun-god. But that requires strength how to enter into the sun globe and see this. But there is the information in the Bhagavad-gītā: imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam, vivasvān manave prāha (BG 4.1), "I first of all instructed this yoga system of Bhagavad-gītā to the sun-god." The sun-god is there in the sun planet, and if you have got strength, you can go there and see. But you cannot go, although it is material. So similarly, in the spiritual world there is the Supreme Spirit, Supreme Being, He is spiritual, concentrated, essence of light.
Yogeśvara: You didn't find it necessary to enter into any kind of discussion with this French Professor just now. There was no real discussion of philosophy. I was wondering why that didn't happen.
Prabhupāda: He did not raise any question. And he is simply translator. He has no philosophy. I asked him "Which philosophy you are...?" "So I make comparative study." I think he did not like to enter into philosophical... Is it not?
Devotee: Most of these gentlemen who come here, when they see you and begin talking with you, like you said, they show their ignorance when they begin to speak. So they prefer not to speak. They always make some excuse that they have an appointment because they know that if they speak, they will be in real trouble.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Tāvac ca śobhate mūrkhaḥ yāvat kiñcin na bhāṣate (?): "A foolish man is very nice as long as he does not speak. As soon as he will speak, his foolishness will be captured." So therefore, sometimes they do not like to talk. Remain as a nice man, (laughs) without being discovered.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that may be, according to the body you are getting. There are 8,400,000 species of body. So according to your work you will be allowed to enter into the womb of mother. How can you check it? Where is your scientist? That is nature's law, automatically. Just like if you are infected, you get this disease. That's all. There is no need of mother nature will take personal... No, the rules are so fine that you will get automatically. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svā-bhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). The Kṛṣṇa's energies are so powerful and subtle that it takes everything takes automatically. One set up, then after that, after that, after that, after that—everything is there. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). Everything is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. You have no control. You are simply under the grip of material nature. Everything, whatever you are doing, immediately it is being recorded automatically. Just like automatic printing press. You simply push the paper, and magazine comes. If you can manufacture some machine, you rascal, then how subtle machine can work on under the supervision of the Supreme?
Mādhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, once you said that if we could remember our past life, we would go crazy because it is so frustrating to continue transmigrating.
Prabhupāda: Now, this question, that spirit develops the skin, you said?
Professor Durckheim: Spirit? You see I have very often... I saw the difference.
Haṁsadūta: The spirit becomes flesh.
Professor Durckheim: The spirit becomes flesh.
Prabhupāda: That's it. So this we can experience, that as soon as the spirit is entered into the womb of the mother, they develops skin and the child develops body. So this is very practical, that first of all, not that simply by sexual intercourse a child is born. Then every the time sexual intercourse would have caused pregnancy. No. Unless the spirit soul is there, there is no question of developing body. Therefore it is natural that the spirit soul creates this flesh and bone and other things and develops into body. There is no difficulty to understand.
Dr. P. J. Saher: Yes, but I think the professor was asking how in our time in the case of a word, as far as spirit becoming flesh, not in the face of an ordinary child. I think I have understood your point?
Professor Durckheim: Yes, in principle. You see sometimes, it seems to me, I might be wrong, that there is one difference between Eastern wisdom and Christian way to think that whereas in the Eastern way, we have to become rid of our body, to be liberate from our body, whereas Christian sense means to realize the spirit within the body. (German)
Prabhupāda: Now, what is our suffering?
Prabhupāda: Now, what is our suffering?
Professor Durckheim: I am sure it can be reconciled, but I am interested to know how do you see this question.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That everyone can understand. It is very easy. Now, just like we have already heard from Bhagavad-gītā that I am the spirit, I am within this body. So my sufferings are on account of this body. This is a fact. Because I have entered into this body, material body, there are my sufferings. Therefore my business should be how to get out of this body. Is it clear or not?
Professor Durckheim: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So this incarnation means I am spirit soul, I have entered this body. Now I can, next life I can enter into another body. It may be dog's body, it may be cat's body or it may be king's body. So the standard of suffering is there either in the king's body or in the dog's body. And the standard of sufferings is enunciated, birth, death, old age and disease. These are our sufferings. So in order to get out of these four kinds of sufferings—there are many kinds; these are the main kinds—we have to get out of this body. That is the problem.
Professor Durckheim: Through many lives...
Professor Durckheim: Well, to be a scholar in the usual sense of the word and to really go into the meaning, they are two different things. There are sometimes people who seeks to be a scholar, but in their actual knowledge, they have no insight. And that's also the case in the, with the theologian and the Bible. They know the Bible sometimes...
Prabhupāda: No, that is required.
Professor Durckheim: ...but they don't enter into the meaning. They interpret it just along their small brains because they haven't got the experience.
Haṁsadūta: Do you want to go this way around, Prabhupāda, or just walk straight on?
Prabhupāda: No, straight. Car is there?
Haṁsadūta: Yeah, car is there, following us. (break)
Prabhupāda: Artificially they live in the city.
Professor Durckheim: Yes, there are now millions and millions of children who never have seen a cow, never seen a horse.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (2): Your Divine Grace, since religion is one, do you think man will enter into a golden age in which he will accept one God?
Prabhupāda: If they do not accept, they are foolish, if God is one. God cannot be two.
Guest (3): So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is the purpose of human life to realize God?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the only purpose. Except this purpose, fulfilling, anything we are doing, that is animalism. As the dog is jumping we are also jumping like that. It is dog's dancing, that's all. What is the difference? A dog is thinking, "I am very strong dog. I am this." And another man—"I am Englishman. I am..." So what is the difference? Mentality is the same. To think of this body that "I am this body," that is required to the dog, to the man. When one understands that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul," that is humanity.
Guest (3): So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, have you realized God?
Prabhupāda: What do you think? What is your opinion?
Guest (3): I can't say.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (3): ...it's like the human finite form merging with the infinite, and then it acquires the powers of infinite...
Prabhupāda: Mixes means... Just like, the example is given: just like a green bird enters into a tree which is also green. So if... To my eyes it appears that the bird is mixed up, but actually that is not fact. Suppose an aeroplane, you see aeroplane is going on. Then, after some time you see there is no aeroplane. It is the same sky. It has mixed up. It has not mixed up. Your eyes are defective. It appears like mixed up. But it cannot mix up. The airplane is keeping its identity. The bird is keeping its identity.
Guest (2): Is the human soul then limited or unlimited?
Prabhupāda: Limited.
Guest (2): Limited?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (2): That it has boundaries and...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you are limited, therefore you are under the control of material nature. That is being explained there. He is limited. If he keeps his limited existence, that is nice. But unnecessarily, if he wants to become unlimited, that is artificial. How it can be?
| Page Title: | Enter into (Conversations 1968 - 1974) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 03 of May, 2013 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=56, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 56 |