Prabhupāda: So in order to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, this is necessary, just like an important segment of the work. We cannot accept anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore this diet, this sort of diet, as you have tasted in our love feast, that is important. We cannot take outside the scope. So in that sense, diet is important. Besides that, from health point of view also, you require a balanced food—carbohydrate, starch, protein, and fat. That is scientific. So fat we are getting from milk, butter. So if I can get fat from milk and butter, why shall I kill the cow and animal? This is humanity. My necessity is to get some milk and fat. The cow is supplying you milk and fat sufficiently. Why should you kill it? I am going to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, God conscious, and I am killing another God's creature? So it is very important work to select that: if anyone is serious to become God conscious or Kṛṣṇa conscious. Therefore in our program meat-eating is forbidden. So that is very important in that sense. The next question is, "So, what is the significance..." I think I've already explained this. "Is there a probationary period for Kṛṣṇa consciousness or does one attain this enlightening according to his own rate of development?" Yes, everything requires little enthusiasm. Just like a boy is going to school with no enthusiasm, and a boy is going to school with nice enthusiasm.
Enlighten (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, generally we chant this mahāmantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, and then we deliver speeches from Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and then there are questions, we answer, and in that way the audience and the disciples they become enlightened and they advance.
Interviewer: But there's no sermon as we would know in other churches?
Prabhupāda: That is, you can call sermon, because there is prayer song and there is, I mean to say, recitation from scriptures...
Interviewer: Well, you have six chapters, so evidently you cannot be everywhere at once. Who is in charge of a temple when you're not here?
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Democracy? This is the age of...
Hayagrīva: I thought you said we should have enlightened monarchy.
Prabhupāda: No. Monarchy is out of date now. When you form a committee... But what can I say? If you disagree in that way, then... If you have to live together, you have to work together; if you disagree in that way, it will be a difficult job.
Hayagrīva: Well, I don't care. I'll leave it up to you then. I'll leave it up to you. You can do what you want.
Prabhupāda: No... You... My... I have explained. He is... As a sannyāsī, he should live everywhere temporarily just like I live temporarily. Aniketa. A sannyāsī should not have a permanent place. Anywhere he goes, temporary. So because you think that his service is required, then he should remain here. Otherwise, as he has accepted sannyāsa order, he should travel, go and preach.
Prabhupāda: I cannot do without her." Or another woman from whom I have taken birth, "She is my mother." Similarly father, similarly sons. In this way, country, society, at the most, humanity. That's all. But all these things are illusion because they are in bodily relationship. Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Those who are passing on on this illusory condition of life, they are compared with the cows and the asses. So our first business is to wake up the general mass of people from this illusory condition of life. So Back to Godhead is specially meant for that purpose. We are pushing our Back to Godhead to the general mass of people to the first condition, first status of enlightenment. And then those who are becoming enlightened, coming forward, "Swamiji, or the society, please make me a member. Please initiate me," he is coming forward, understanding his position. So that is second stage, to train him how to awaken his, that dormant love of God. That is another stage, training.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: The practice is very simple. Anyone, when you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, even child joins. Even a small child, he also claps and joins. Therefore it is recommended in the śāstras, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva (CC Adi 17.21). In this age nobody can meditate actually. It is very difficult. Maybe one or two persons can meditate, but that is not for all. But here Kṛṣṇa conscious, the chanting, is so nice, that even a child can take part. It doesn't require that he should be educated, he should be rich or he should be enlightened, no. As he is, simply if he takes part in this... Even woman. We were chanting. There was some roaring. As soon as we begin chanting, it stopped. This is authorized. This is recommended. And this is practically being... Now in European and American countries, four or five years back...
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. So unless he has got saṁskāra, he is enlightened by culture and knowledge, unless he has become dvija, then there is no authority for studying Vedas. Veda-paṭhet. After one has become dvija, then he is allowed to study Vedas. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ saṁskārad bhaved dvijaḥ, and veda-paṭhed bhaved vipraḥ. Vipra. Then he becomes... Gradually increasing, from śūdra he comes to dvija, then vipra. And after being vipra, after studying all the Vedas, when he realizes Brahman, then he is brāhmaṇa. Brahmā jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that, gradual process, gradual process and to make him a qualified brāhmaṇa. And when he becomes brāhmaṇa, then he knows Brahman. Then he makes spiritual progress. Without... Therefore, without becoming brāhmaṇa nobody can make spiritual progress. That is the door of spiritual knowledge. Then he makes progress, makes progress. So after understanding Brahman knowledge, then he comes to Paramātmā knowledge, then he comes to Bhāgavata knowledge.
Prabhupāda: That is my idea. Not (indistinct) idea, because all the great sages, they waited if they are married. Just like Kapila Muni..., Kardama, Kardama Muni. Kardama Muni, he was a great yogi. So he was thinking of marrying, so Kṛṣṇa sent him good wife, Devahūti, a king's daughter. So he thought, "I was thinking of marrying, so Kṛṣṇa has sent. All right, let me marry." But he made a condition to her father that "I can accept your daughter as my wife so long she has no children. As soon as she has children, I shall go away." So the father agreed, "Whatever you like, you can do. I'm just placing my wife in your custody." So the sannyāsī..., when there is a child of the wife, I think one can accept sannyāsa.
But preaching is our most important business. People are suffering for want of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So as representative of Kṛṣṇa, it is our duty to enlighten them, and we should accept all kinds of... But there is no difficulty. Where is the difficulty? I think we are living better than anyone in the world. (laughter) Where is the difficulty? Simply we have to be very sincere devotee of Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Everything Kṛṣṇa will supply. Everything. So in that position, go on preaching.
Prabhupāda: Just see. If you say that they are animal civilization, that is a great credit for them. It is less than animal civilization. Write all this in papers and everything, all openly. Challenge strongly. First of all, realize, then challenge. (break) Dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. That is the special distinction, that their life, human life must be based on dharma, religion. They have rejected dharma. That is another type of frustration because the so-called leaders of religion, they could not give anything. They also exploited people under religious sentiment. Actually they could not make people religious. They did not know what is religion. And therefore people become, revolted: "What is this nonsense? They are living at our expenditure." We are real religious people. We are enlightening people about religion, life, about God. And these people they simply take money and live peacefully. And drink also. Here they drink wine. In India they drink gāñjā. You have been Rādhā-Dāmodara temple? You have seen that Gosāi?
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That means he's ignorant, you're trying to enlighten him.
Bob: So giving intelligence...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is goodness.
Bob: What about just giving assistance, like you give...?
Prabhupāda: That is also goodness.
Bob: To a beggar who has nothing you give alms.
Prabhupāda: Um hmm. So that is goodness. But still... Just like in your Bowery Street, they give some charity, and immediately he purchases one bottle of wine and drinks and lie down flat. (laughter) So that is charity... That is not goodness, that is ignorance.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You save him from going to hell. Because a farthing spent for Kṛṣṇa it will be accounted, "Oh, this man has given a farthing." This is called ajñāta-sukṛti. Ajñāta-sukṛti means doing pious activities without knowledge. So we give everyone chance to act very piously without his knowledge. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Mahad-vicalanaṁ nṟṇāṁ gṛhīṇāṁ dīna-cetasām. Dīna-cetasām. They're very poor in their thought. Therefore the saintly persons work(?) just to enlighten him little, to give him chance to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is saintly person's study.
Bob: That is what?
Prabhupāda: But if he takes money from other and utilizes for his sense gratification, then he goes to hell. Then it is finished. Then he's a cheater. Actually, he is criminal. You cannot take money, a farthing from anyone.
Prabhupāda: So, how they can (indistinct)? They do not know and do not actually want to see people enlightened. It is not their policy. It is simply make some show. Show means spend another set-up amount, investigation. Their men, the government men, they'll get money, that's all.
Ātreya Ṛṣi(?): Jaya.
Prabhupāda: And finished. Engage some rascal report. This is going on.
Ātreya Ṛṣi(?): Exactly, exactly.
Prabhupāda: Very dangerous.
Ātreya Ṛṣi(?): They are all thieves, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: That's all. They don't want to see people very enlightened. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." But at least how to become wise, that injunction has been given to you. Now you try to save the country, how to do it. These people will not be. You'll have to educate the people, and they'll vote you to the senators, president, and then your country will be nice. Just like by Kurukṣetra, Kṛṣṇa smashed all Duryodhana and company, and He posted Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja. That is the Kṛṣṇa's politics. He wanted to smash all these demons and have His own men posted on the royal throne. When Kali could not penetrate into the daily behavior of the people, he planned killing of Parīkṣit Maharaja. So, one Kali brāhmaṇa cursed him to death, for no fault practically. Therefore the brāhmaṇas of this age, they are condemned. The so-called caste brāhmaṇas, they're condemned. That is lamented by the father of the boy who cursed Parīkṣit Maharaja.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is the way of learning what is God. The main business is that one must know God. It is not that because I approach some person and he did not know, he could give me the right knowledge of God, then I give up this idea of knowing God. No. That will not..., that is not good for human life. Then you remain animal. I might have been cheated or I might not have approached the proper person, but that does not mean that I can stop that idea. That is not... In another place it is said, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). One who is actually inquisitive to understand the highest benefit of life, he must approach a guru. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ. Jijñāsu means inquisitive. Śreya—the highest benefit of life. Uttamam-highest. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. Ṣābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ. What is the qualification of such a person? Ṣābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ. He is completely well versed in the transcendental science. And what is the symptom that he is well versed? Brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam. He has taken shelter of Brahma or Kṛṣṇa or God. Upāsanā-finishing all desires. These two things: he is a devotee and he has no more material desires. He must be well versed in the science, he must be a devotee, and he has no attraction for material things. These three things, if you can find, then he's perfect guru. Everything is there in the śāstra; therefore books should be consulted. If you have no books, those who are discussing books, you should approach them, you should hear them. Just like we are holding class, morning, evening. People can come here, take advantage what we are speaking, then gradually they can understand. But we cannot avoid that. That is not good idea. If I say that "I went to church. I'm not very much enlightened; therefore I give up this attempt," oh, that is not good.
Prabhupāda: Suppose you are getting some money. We have no money. If you try to serve, that will... Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ (Brs. 1.2.234). This line is service. The more you render service, the more you become enlightened. If you simply philosophize, theorize, you'll get no benefit. You must render service.
Ian Polsen: May I join the kīrtana in the streets over the weekend?
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes, whenever you get opportunity, kīrtana. Yes. Very nice.
Ian Polsen: Dressed as I am?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Ian Polsen: Dressed as I am?
Prabhupāda: Why not? Dress is not very essential.
Prabhupāda: Then you are allowed to marry and become a householder, and after a number of years you remain a husband but abandon sexuality, and that is called vānaprastha. Finally you take sannyāsa and leave your family to practice and preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is Vedic civilization. Everything is provided to enlighten the people in general. All the knowledge is there, and the method is there; we simply have to take advantage of it. If we do not, how can we expect a peaceful and happy world? If society creates animals, then how can it expect peace and prosperity? In spite of so many big universities and all educational facilities, this society is producing hippies and frustration amongst the youth because we are spirit soul and cannot become happy simply by amassing material comforts. We must have spiritual life. If a fish is taken out of water, it cannot be made happy with all the comforts of land. To be happy, a fish must have all the freedom of water.
Guest (2): Just now you said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This śaraṇaṁ vraja, could you just enlighten...
Prabhupāda: Śaraṇaṁ vraja—you just surrender. Whatever you say...
Guest (2): In daily life, I mean, like our practical life, how śaraṇāgati could be...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, śaraṇāgati. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was hesitating to fight but when he surrendered to Kṛṣṇa he fought.
Guest (2): He was lucky. Lord Kṛṣṇa was right there with him.
Prabhupāda: So Lord Kṛṣṇa's instruction is there. That is Lord Kṛṣṇa. There is no difference between Lord Kṛṣṇa and His instruction. He is absolute. Just like these boys. They are serving Kṛṣṇa. Lord Kṛṣṇa is not present. Lord Kṛṣṇa is present but you do not know how He is present. Lord Kṛṣṇa is present by His name, Hare Kṛṣṇa. This Kṛṣṇa and the person Kṛṣṇa is not different. That you do not know. You are thinking Kṛṣṇa is gone, but Kṛṣṇa is present by His instruction, by His name, by His form, by His quality, by His pastime, because He is absolute. Kṛṣṇa is never absent. Simply we have to see, we have to make our eyes to see Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is always present.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Scholar: Well, not really. But step by step we have to enlighten ourselves.
Prabhupāda: But step by step... You have to know it. Step by step is there. First of all you have to fix up that we have, this is the goal. Then we get step by step. But if you don't accept the principle, then you remain in darkness.
Scholar: I think the principle is the same but by the way to perform...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Your principle is to teach the principles of Bhagavad-gītā, then you have to take the principles of Bhagavad-gītā. If you want to read Bhagavad-gītā but you remain in other atmosphere then it will not help. It is simply waste of time. That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ janayati (SB 1.2.7), therefore Bhagavad-gītā is also there. I'm talking to the most confidential part of this knowledge. Sarva-guhyatamam. What is that? Find out. The Eighteenth Chapter. I think sixty-three verse. What is that verse sixty-three?
Devotee: Iti te jñānam ākhyātam, "Thus I have explained to you the most confidential of all knowledge."
Prabhupāda: She's a drain inspection report. And in reply to that, one Punjabi barrister, he wrote one book: "Uncle Sam". He pointed out all the blackmailing of American government. So these things are going on. Doṣam icchanti pāmarāḥ. Those who are low class of men, they simply try to find out the faults. Guṇa icchanti saj-janāḥ. And those who are enlightened, they will take the qualities only. Saj-janā guṇa icchanti, doṣam icchanti pāmarāḥ, mukti brāhmaṇā icchanti madhum icchanti bhramarāḥ. Yes. That, there are flies, ordinary flies. They are searching after sores, where is sore in your body. And there are bumblebees, they are searching after where is honey. Similarly, those who are rascals, they'll find out: "Oh, here is a fault. Here is a fault." Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, it doesn't mat... Therefore they're all madmen. You can speak in your own way. I'll speak in my own way and another fool thinks that both of them are scientists. They do not agree. Still he's scientist. Just see. Cheaters and the cheated. Somebody's cheating and somebody's becoming cheated. The whole society's the combination of cheaters and cheated. That's all. I see both of them, they do not agree. Just like they have rejected religion because two religionists, they do not agree. So why not these rascal scientists? They do not agree. Just see. They are so fool. But still they are after that. Their modern people they have rejected religion because they say that one religionist does not agree with another religionist. So there is no... Skepticism. So why not about the scientists? Just see. Everywhere you will find contradiction. Therefore anyone... and we are find out this contradiction because we have little attachment for Kṛṣṇa. Others cannot find out. We are challenging scientists, philosophers, although we are teeny person, because we have little attachment for Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, who is detecting their follies? Nobody. The scientist's follies, the philosopher follies, their contradiction... A devotee can find out. Paśyanti jñāna-cakṣuṣā. Unless one is highly enlightened, one cannot find out these defects, contradiction.
Prabhupāda: Yes, as far as possible you should help everyone how to be, how to become enlightened about his future. That is real humanitarian work—to save a human being from the future disastrous condition of life. Just like a father thinks of his son, that he may not be unhappy in his future life. So it is the duty of the king, it is the duty of the father, it is the duty of the spiritual master to see that his subordinate is not falling a victim of future disastrous life.
Devotee (2): Didn't the Queen make some remarks about that? She said something to you...
David Wynne: Yes, she said, "How marvelous it would be to completely trust Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: That's very nice.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Now it has come to another platform. So anyway, the knights, they are respectable gentlemen of the society, leading men of the society. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for enlightening people to the right standard of understanding the goal of life. Because after this life, after this body is annihilated, we do not know what kind of body we are getting next. We must prepare. Just like you are elevated to the position of lordship. So you had to prepare yourself. Not that this lordship is offered to anyone and everyone. One who is qualified, he is offered this position. Similarly, we should know how we are becoming qualified for the next life. But that education is lacking. There is no such education. In the university or anywhere, nobody thinks, "What we are going to become next life?" But we should be prepared. If, after becoming Prime Minister in this life, or President, like Mr. Nixon, and again, by his activities, he's going to be another animal, oh, that is not very successful proposal. But there is such chance. Because after death, after giving up this body, we are completely under the grip of material nature.
Prabhupāda: So the process of enlightening the living entities, especially the human being, because in the animal form of life, one cannot be enlightened. Neither the animal can understand what is God.
Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: It is only the human being who can understand. If he's trained, then he can come to God consciousness.
Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes, yes, yes, It is so.
Prabhupāda: So this creation is meant for the forgotten souls to give them a chance for reviving their God consciousness.
Yogeśvara: Is it clear?
Cardinal Danielou: Yes, it is clear. It is very, very clear. Very clear.
Prabhupāda: For father, there is no such distinction that: "This high-court judge is very important and the clerk in the office, my son, he's not important." So if the enlightened son, high-court judge, says to the father: "My dear father, your, this son, is useless. Let me cut him and eat." Will the father allow?
Yogeśvara: (asks in French if this is clear)
Cardinal Danielou: Non.
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Prabhupāda: Apart from this consideration, at least this morality should be observed that cows, they're our mother. We should not kill at least mothers for eating the flesh.
Cardinal Danielou: The difficulty for us is not the idea that it is good for us to respect the life of a cow. The difficulty is the metaphysic reason. You know.
Prabhupāda: No, metaphysics, not...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also, just like, Kṛṣṇa comes. Similarly Kṛṣṇa's son, God's son, sometimes He comes. Sometimes Kṛṣṇa's great devotee, servant, he comes because the spiritual enlightenment to the fallen souls, that is required. So in the human society, when the living entity gets the chance of having this human form of life, he has got the facility to understand his position, how to go back to home, back to Godhead. So that facility is offered by God, by Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, we have got these books. We have got spiritual master, we have got ācāryas. Just to enlighten these fallen souls to go back to home, back to Godhead.
Guest (1): Now you did say, I think you did just tell me earlier, that I think you said Kṛṣṇa or somebody last came five hundred years ago.
Prabhupāda: No, Lord Caitanya.
Prabhupāda: So that is becoming, happening, that although they are American, European, Canadian, African, Australian, not all of them are Indian... Indians are also there. But because they are giving aural reception to this transcendental message, they are becoming enlightened. So anyone who will give aural reception to this message, first of all Bhagavad-gītā, entrance, then Bhāgavatam, then Caitanya-caritāmṛta, like books, then gradually, he'll be self-realized, fully cognizant what is God. What is God, this is... athāto brahma jijñāsā means what is God. So this institution is meant for giving chance to everyone to hear. It doesn't require education. Simply God has given him this ear. Let him receive the message from the ear. Śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. This is the process. Very simple process. Simply to hear, sincerely, then everything will be done gradually. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). By hearing, the mirror of consciousness, consciousness is just like a mirror. It is now covered with dust. Mārjanam. Mirror, if you cleanse with a duster, then you can see clearly what is your face. So by this chanting process and hearing, gradually the dirty things in the heart will be cleansed. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). Simply hearing about Kṛṣṇa is puṇya, pious activities. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ.
Prabhupāda: They have no brain. The same thing, the crows. So therefore they have to be enlightened to Kṛṣṇa consciousness then they will be able to find out some big leader, nice leader for them. There are so many things. You are educated. You should try to understand our philosophy. There are so many things to be learned from our... They're not sentimentally dancers only. They've got logic, philosophy, science, everything. Otherwise how we are writing so many books? Just see, ancient word, how they are nicely, these two verses we have read. How full of meaning. Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo. Harer, pragṛṇīta karhicit, tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham (SB 1.5.10), each word has volumes of meanings. There are 18,000 verses in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And each word you'll find enlivening. Each word. It's such a nice literature. One verse contains actually sixteen words. So 18,000 multiplied by sixteen, how much?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. As soon as you go against the standard rules and regulations, there must be some motive. That is politics. That is politics. All politicians, they are with motive. They are not for... Now, all these big, big political parties, they are fighting with one another. They are simply trying to keep their post and they are fighting for that. So where is the time for them to think of the general people, how they will be happy? There is no time. It is the Kṛṣṇa conscious people who are actually thinking of others. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Vaiṣṇava qualification is he is unhappy by seeing others... (break) Let us enlighten them. Otherwise what is the use of working in this old age? (Aside:) Come on. Vaiṣṇava's qualification is para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. He is unhappy by seeing others unhappy. Because without God consciousness, without understanding "What I am, what is God, what is my relationship," everyone shall remain unhappy. There cannot be happiness. Without knowledge of God, nobody can be happy. Superficially they may try, so-called humanitarianism, this ism, that ism. Now, say for these Communists country, they have struggled for the last sixty years. They started from 1917. How many years?
Prabhupāda: Not to speak like mad man. That you are scientists, you are, "We shall solve all the questions." This nonsense thing should stop. They should come to God and understand what God says. Then their life is successful. God Himself is speaking in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just try to understand. This is not meant for the dogs and cats; this is meant for persons like Arjuna. Because Bhagavad-gītā was taught to Arjuna—for enlightened, ah, topmost class of men. They'll understand. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. Evaṁ paramparā prāptam (BG 4.2). So be yourself amongst the topmost intelligent class of men and try to understand Bhagavad-gītā. Then you'll be happy.
Devotee (1): Prabhupāda, we should go this way.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But if you want to remain unhappy by your whims, then what... God cannot help you. But you have got the intelli..., independence.
Hṛdayānanda: So Prabhupāda, if some people say, "Well, I have no free will," that means that they are actually lazy.
Prabhupāda: And that is absolute. In our relative world, we can see so many differences in the dealings of God, but He is absolute, one. That is conception of God. Advaita. Advaita. Advaita means absolute. And... Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam (SB 1.2.11). Again advayam. You may conceive God as impersonal or localized Paramātmā or Bhagavān—the same thing. But due to our, I mean to say, meager knowledge, we are thinking, somebody's thinking that His personality is greater than impersonality and somebody's thinking impersonality's greater than personality. This is our conception. He's the same. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam (SB 1.2.11). Not different. Not different. But one who has reached to the conception of personality, he has got all the others. That is the difference. So you write. You are theologician. You write about God so that people may understand how our students are enlightened. Other so-called foolish theologicians may learn from you. You take the ideas and explain.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We are going to miss this morning...
Prabhupāda: No, you remember, you manipulate, you expand it. That is your business.
Hṛdayānanda: Boy, they're so enlightening.
Devotees: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda! All glories to Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. All glories to the assembled devotees.
Prabhupāda: But you have taken the knowledge, why cannot you describe it. That means although you have got your Guru Maharaja, still you are in darkness. So what is the use of this Guru Maharaja? You are in darkness because you cannot explain. You're asking me to go to Guru Maharaja. But if you are enlightened, why you cannot explain? Therefore you are in darkness. They are useless as guru. You have not... He's a garu. He's garu.
Yaśomatīnandana: Garu is mad, crazy.
Prajāpati: They claim to see light inside, Śrīla Prabhupāda, but we say, "If we hit you on head, you will see light inside also."
Prabhupāda: So preaching is always difficult. That I have repeatedly saying. You cannot take preaching very easy-going. Preaching must be fight. Do you mean to say fighting is easy thing? Fighting is not easy thing. Whenever there is fight, there is danger, there is responsibility. So preaching means... What is the preaching? Because people are ignorant, we have to enlighten them. That is preaching.
Nara-nārāyaṇa: When you came to the western world, no one anywhere believed that it would be successful I think. But actually, it has become very successful, by preaching.
Prabhupāda: I myself did not believe I shall be successful, what to speak of others, but because I did in the proper line, so it has become successful.
Yaśomatīnandana: Yes, Kṛṣṇa is so kind that we expect something and He gives us hundred times more.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Bali Mardana: Every day?
Prabhupāda: Every day. Why I am taking so much trouble? Everything enlightened.
Bali Mardana: I was reading yesterday about the talks between Uddhava and Maitreya and Kṛṣṇa, and it described that previously Uddhava was one of the eight Vasus who desired to associate with the Lord.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bali Mardana: What is exactly the position of the Vasus?
Prabhupāda: Vasus, they are demigods. Before appearance of Kṛṣṇa, some of the exalted demigods were ordered to come and arrange for His arrival. So Uddhava arrived, and many others arrived. They were coming from heavenly planets.
Bali Mardana: Bhīṣmadeva was also one of the Vasus previously.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Aṣṭa-vasu.
Prabhupāda: No, from the First Commandment it appears that they were not very enlightened because why does he say "Thou shall not kill"? That means they were killers.
Dr. Patel: They were killing. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: They were killers.
Dr. Patel: Otherwise, they would not have said, "Thou shall not kill."
Prabhupāda: Why the first commandment is there, "Thou shall not kill"? They were fighting and killing amongst themselves. Not very advanced nation. And he was horrified when he saw that the Jews were killing animals.
Prabhupāda: Well, born foolish. That... He has to become intelligent. But when he talks foolishly, he remains foolish.
Indian Man (1): Well, so far he is not enlightened.
Prabhupāda: If he talks foolishly, that means he is still foolish. He has not attained any knowledge.
Indian Man (6): But after getting the knowledge, then knowledge means when we completely know the Supreme Personality is Lord Kṛṣṇa, then he is all right.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Indian Man (6): But those who have got no knowledge about all these things, so they must be worshiping some Devī, Gaṇeśa...
Prabhupāda: But why they take the position of a teacher? They should not take the position of a teacher. They should remain foolish, that "I have still to learn."
Prabhupāda: (break) ...presence of a brāhmaṇa, of a sannyāsī, in the household, in the house of a householder, means to enlighten. Mahad-vicalanaṁ nṛnām gṛhinām gṛhacet dīna-cetasām. The gṛhasthas, they are very cripple-minded. They are satisfied with the family, and they do not know that anything else to do. Therefore it is the duty of the sannyāsī and the brāhmaṇas to go to the householder's home and enlighten them spiritually. Therefore purohita. Go on. (break) ...pura. Purasara means "in the front", and hita means welfare. So one who conducts welfare of the householder. Guru-purohita. Every family must have guru and purohita for spiritual advancement. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Indian Man (1): For all the vices...
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)
Girirāja: "In household duties and are forgetting our real duty of self-realization." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...gṛha-medhinām. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). Those who are gṛhamedhis and do not know anything else except maintaining the family, they are called gṛhamedhi. And those who cultivating spiritual consciousness in gṛhastha life with family and children, they are called gṛhasthas. That is the difference between gṛhamedhi and gṛhastha. So gṛhamedhi, they have no aim of life, of self-realization. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Nṛnāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ. (break) ...self-realization. Nṛnāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2), who cannot see what is the ātma-tattvam, what is the path of self-realization. Gṛheṣu gṛhamedhinām. Therefore it is the duty of the sannyāsī... Sannyāsī does not mean that he will beg for fulfilling his hungry belly. Sannyāsī means he must enlighten—that is sannyāsī—in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break) ...rājendra nṛnaṁ santi sahasrasaḥ apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2).
Prabhupāda: So the leaders, the politicians, the king, the brāhmaṇa, they should be very much pure, without any sinful tinge of life. And the pillars of sinful life is illicit sex life and meat-eating and intoxication and gambling. Now, unfortunately, the leaders are teaching people how to enjoy illicit sex life, meat-eating and intoxication. Then how the society can be happy? It is not possible. If you become criminal or if you infect some disease, you must suffer. Similarly, in the material world there are three guṇas: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So if you associate with sattva-guṇa, then you become enlightened. If you associate with rajo-guṇa, then you are, I mean to say, pushed through passion. And if you are in ignorance, then you do not know what is right and wrong. Kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye. The symptoms of rajo-guṇa is excessive lust and greediness. And sattva-guṇa, they are in knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes. School, college, library, enlightened gentlemen, businessmen, they have all accepted.
Pañcadraviḍa: This is how it would work. This is Akṣayānanda's work. He has been doing this for some months here now. He goes every day to all the different colleges and schools, and he speaks, and he shows them your books for their college libraries. He's been having a lot of programs like this. They always take the Bhagavad-gītā and Kṛṣṇa Books and Nectar of Devotion, like this.
Prabhupāda: Best thing is that "Why your president, he did not write a single Hindi book? He has got so many. He is a famous philosopher. Indian religion, Indian philosophy, and Bhagavad-gītā. Then... He has written so many books but not a single in Hindi."
Indian man (1): Dr. Radhakrishnan belongs to South India.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he is from Madras.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes, Allahabad, very important. The UP high-court is there. Therefore all enlightened... University is there. All educated men of UP are in Allahabad. This Jawaharlal Nehru, Motilal Nehru, they were Allahabad men. Sarte(?) Bahadur Satru(?), big, big, well-known men, they are all... Pandita Madana Mohana Mahalabdha. All big, big politicians, they were Allahabad men. (break) ...times to print the books here. No action was taken. In the last five years, everyone tried and there was no result. Otherwise we can print all the books here.
Gargamuni: No, but the quality is better.
Prabhupāda: Quality is better, but it will be cheaper. It doesn't matter. But to get books there, it takes so much time and the book department is not being managed nicely. But if we print here, the all problems will be solved. Here that gentleman, he has got press. Why not let him print? Yes. Why don't you call him immediately? If he can print. We can reprint all the books here.
O'Grady: Just to pay a visit, meet the children.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is my duty to enlighten people about God consciousness.
O'Grady: God consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yogeśvara: Thank you very much.
Michael Robert: Thank you all.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Please stay for one minute.
Prabhupāda: Please take prasāda. Stay one minute. So another, I give my request. You are a poet. You describe about God. You are expert in describing. So you just take this occupation, describing God. Then your life will be successful, and one who will hear you, his life will be successful. That is the injunction.
Yogeśvara: He says first of all, so far as cooperation is concerned, he is just one man. He is the president, although he is the president, still, he is only one man, and he can only speak in terms of cooperating with the spiritual movement among the more enlightened members of his group.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is required, because if the enlightened men of the society does something, others will follow. It is not that the general mass of people has to be educated. They will be automatically educated. They will follow. If the enlightened man is living in such a way that he is going to be transferred to the spiritual world, then others will follow. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). At least, there must be a class of men, ideal men, that they are preparing themselves for transferring to the spiritual world. Then people will see that "Here is the ideal man," and they will try to follow. (French) But if people see that "He is also like us. He is also drinking, he is also eating meat, and he is also having illicit sex," then where is the ideal man? Everyone is implicated with these things, sinful life.
Robert Gouiran: ...with this plane, nothing could happen because I felt I was in harmony. And when I went back, I took the plane, exactly as you say, at Colombo, I went by Colombo, and there was a storm, terrible storm when the plane took off, and the lady beside me was very frightened, and I was so enlightened at the time that I told her, "We are protected. I am protected. So if you are beside me you are also protected. So nothing could happen." And it was an extraordinary feeling. In French we call that providence. You know that?
Prabhupāda: Providence? Yes. That... When we are in danger, we remember the providence, but when we are happy we forget providence. (laughter)
Robert Gouiran: (French, "I didn't understand.")
Guru-gaurāṅga: (French)
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, you do not lose. You hear from the enlightened. Then you will be enlightened, and you will automatically give up meat-eating. Therefore our business is to hear from the enlightened. That is the first business. Other things not immediately needed. Even if you cannot give up meat-eating, still, you hear from the enlightened.
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He asked me how much time I've been in the movement.
Prabhupāda: How much time?
Hṛdayānanda: He asked me how much time...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Practical is that our śāstra says that pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. The idea is that one should not become a father, one should not become a mother, unless they know how to make his child immortal. Because soul is immortal but he is entangled in this material body, therefore death takes place. Actually soul is not born, na jāyate na mriyate vā. So this process is going on, transmigration of the soul from one body to another, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The father and mother should be so enlightened and educate the son in such a way that this is the last acceptance of material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), he may not accept again this material body. If the father and mother is determined in that way, then they should become parents, otherwise no.
Prabhupāda: Oh. The Canadian ambassador. He came to see me. He saw me in Delhi when our function was going on. He was speaking; he was so surprised. So this movement has got good potency, and every one of you join.
- bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra
- janma sārthaka kari 'kara para-upakāra
- (CC Adi 9.41)
This is para-upakāra. The whole world is in darkness without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So enlighten them, para-upakāra. Human life is for para-upakāra; it is not animal life. To do good to others. Cats and dogs, they are selfish. But human life should be for para-upakāra. So this is the biggest para-upakāra movement. And it is very easy to take part in it. You don't require to be very expert. You... Everything is there. You simply carry the message like peon. Kṛṣṇa says this; kindly follow; that's all. We don't say that "I say this. I have manufactured this. I have become very big man, God." We don't say nonsense.
Prabhupāda: Actually it is very difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa. But you can understand Kṛṣṇa if you adopt this process: praṇipātena, paripraśnena, sevayā-three things. You have to go to a person where you can surrender, not to a bogus person or one who is not competent to accept your surrender. And then you make question that "Kṛṣṇa says like this. What is the meaning of this?" Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati... (BG 7.3). And sevayā. Three things required: first of all surrender, and then question, and seva. You cannot question by challenging. You have to render service and surrender. Between the two, praṇipāta and sevayā, there is paripraśna. Then you will understand. Upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ jñāninaḥ tattva-darśinaḥ. Tattva-darśi, one who has seen the truth, he can enlighten you. This is the process. Otherwise, even Gandhi, Dr. Rādhākrishnan, Vivekānanda, all they have committed mistake. Aurobindo.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the simplest way. That is the simplest way. If one sincerely chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, he becomes enlightened.
Girl: (German)
Haṁsadūta: She says this is the main thing that Lord Caitanya has given the people in this age, a simple process to approach God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, the highest perfection, to reach the highest perfection, that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's special gift.
Girl: (German)
Haṁsadūta: As a conclusive question, she asks what can we do to help the, (German), the whole movement to continue to expand?
Prabhupāda: What help?
Haṁsadūta: What, what she can do.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Your, these Western countrymen, they are intelligent. So intelligently enlighten them. By intelligent statements, make a peaceful revolution.
Haṁsadūta: Right. Yeah. O.K.?
Prabhupāda: As these boys are changing their habits and their ideas, so similarly, it can be done to the mass of people.
Haṁsadūta: Is that all right?
Girl: Ja.
Prabhupāda: Jaya. (aside:) Stop that also. (break) ...kṛpana bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ, yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). This gṛhastha life is a concession for sex life. Otherwise, there is no need of gṛhastha life. But everything can be used to make the best use of a bad bargain. That is another thing. Actually, to become free from all responsibility and anxieties, if one remains a brahmacārī, that is very good. That is the recommendation of śāstra. But if you cannot... Because the material world is going on under sex impulse, by nature the sex impulse is there. He will agitate you. But if you can control by becoming a rigid brahmacārī, that is better. But it is difficult.
Prabhupāda: So, you are trying to serve Kṛṣṇa very nicely. That is very good. These rascals are in ignorance and you are trying to enlighten them. Very good service. (break) After reading a book does anybody come and ask questions? Do they receive regularly letters and enquiries?
Amogha: Yes. Here they do. I answer many of the letters when they come. Last week, just before we came over to Perth, one boy wrote a letter, he said, "I cannot come to your temple, but I am a student in Geelong"—that's one city near Melbourne—"And when I come to Melbourne I always get your Back to Godhead magazine." So he said, "How can I become a member of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?" So I wrote him a letter telling him about getting more books and chanting. And one man wrote us a letter from New Zealand. He said, "I have Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam parts one, two and three. Can you please tell me how many other parts I can get, because I want to have them all."
Prabhupāda: Education, if it is not for the benefit of the people, then what is the use of such education? That is not a good education. Education means something which will benefit the mass of people. That is education. To enlighten them to do something better. That is education. And this whole Darwin's theory is false. But people are giving too much stress. First of all, anyone, even Darwin, he's not independent. Just like Darwin has died. So, he is under the control of something higher. Nobody wants to die, but he is forced to die. Is it not? Then where is his independence?
Carol: That is the illusion.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Guest 2: I don't think so any more. They're a lot more enlightened.
Prabhupāda: Not any more?
Guest 2: Well, in some circles, yes I think.
Prabhupāda: That was never any more, but if they are realizing that, that is very good.
Guest 1: But you can't say that scientists are working in a way that is opposite to God's will.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they say. They say, oh yes. I have met many scientists. They say that "We shall solve everything by scientific advancement. We have done already." They say like that.
Guest 1: But just because they...
Prabhupāda: Just like there is a big theory, chemical theory. One big scientist... Big or small, whatever he may be, he has got a Nobel Prize.
Prabhupāda: Actually it is the duty of the vaiśyas, but the śūdras can help everyone, the helpers. The śūdras will help the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas, as well as the vaiśyas. Those who have no brain—simply they can carry out order—they are śūdras. And those who have got brain, they can act as brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, or vaiśya. They have got brain to take the initiative. First-class brain, they should be engaged in studying śāstras, writing books and in the worship of the Deity, lecturing enlightened people. This is brāhmaṇa. They haven't got to work as kṣatriya, as vaiśya. They are simply intellectuals. This is brāhmaṇa, with good character.
Devotee (1): Distributing books?
Prabhupāda: Yes. And the distribution book can be done by the vaiśya, trade. It is a trade. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). Kṛṣi, agriculture, giving protection to cows, and distributing or trading. If you have got enough grains you can trade. Make money. If you have got enough vegetables, you can trade. That is the business of vaiśya. So vaiśya does not require any university degree or any... Nobody requires university degree. That is a false thing. And brāhmaṇa should be very highly learned scholar. So the brāhmaṇas will give advice to the kṣatriya how to rule, and the kṣatriya will levy tax, and vaiśyas will produce food. Then the society will be perfect.
Devotee: What kind of tax?
Member: Only great gurus like you can enlighten the whole world. Only very rarely such people come only for the benefit of the people...
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but those who are leaders, those who are leading the people, they are not interested. They are misleading.
Member: You can beg them (indistinct) everything nice with you.
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Sometimes this side, sometimes that side. Near the head. (about fan?)
Member: I not praising of Swamiji, I think no, so many saints are in India, so many great ṛṣis are there. Nobody were able to propagate or bring this consciousness among the people of the worlds as you did. It is a great credit to India. That is what I feel personally.
Prabhupāda: Do you think like that?
Dhanañjaya: "Temple." All right. "And become..." Something like, "and become enlightened with transcendental knowledge," something like that. He's explaining briefly.
Prabhupāda: He... What does he know? He'll explain? He is explaining. What does he know. He'll explain?
Dhanañjaya: Tejas has written.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That Rājasabhā.
Dhanañjaya: Oh, Rājasabhā.
Prabhupāda: Rājasabhā, what does he know about our philosophy?
Dhanañjaya: Well, Nayanābhirāma is there to guide him. And he's reading every day also. He's got our books, and he's reading every day without fail.
Prabhupāda: Then it is all right.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But if the basic principle is wrong, then all their plans for becoming happy is also wrong. So he does not know what is the important factor. So when he comes to know that he is not this body, he is spirit soul—he studies what is the nature of the spirit soul, what is the necessity of the spirit soul—then he becomes happy. If he is under misconception... Suppose if I take you, Mr. Singer, as the coat, and I take care of the coat and not of you, person, then is that very good proposal? So that is going on. They are taking care of the shirt and coat, not the person who is putting on the shirt and coat. This is the mistake of the modern civilization. And the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an attempt to correct it, not theoretically, but by scientifically, by philosophically, economically, religiously, everything. Therefore we have got so many books. We are trying to distribute, enlighten people. This is our business. Then people will be happy. Unless one who knows "what I am, and what is my business, what is my aim of life," then how he can be happy?
Prabhupāda: Then you must first of all rectify your karma. Then talk. Past karma, you have got this body. Therefore you must rectify your karma. Karmano 'pi bodhavyam akarmana. You must know what is karma, what is akarma, what is vikarma. That is knowledge. If you remain blind about your karma and by nature's way you get different body, then what is your knowledge? Just like if you go to a doctor, he says that "Due to this infection, you have got this disease," so you know it so that in future you will be very careful. That is knowledge." I do not know why I have got this disease, and still, I do not know what further it is going on"—that is ignorance. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. To remain in ignorance, that is the greatest sin. Tamasi ma: "Don't remain in darkness." That is Vedic injunction, "Enlighten yourself." Jyotir gama: "Go to the light." But where is your light, you do not know. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Therefore Bhāgavata says,
- tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido
- na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ
- tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ
- kālena sarvatra gabhīra raṁhasā
- (SB 1.5.18)
(Hindi) So three classes of men are there: upper class, middle class. You cannot change it. It is laws of nature.
Indian man (1): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Just like Vivekananda philosophy, daridra-nārāyaṇa. (Hindi) How you can change this? (Hindi) First duty is, first of all enlighten them with knowledge. That is required, not by external bodily comforts.
Prabhupāda: On the street there is sign board, "Keep to the left," or "Keep to the right." This is education. This is education. One must know how to run the car which side. Education means enlightenment. If you foolishly do something, immediately you become criminal. So education means to enlighten them to know what is right, what is wrong. That is education. But people do not know that. What is the meaning of education? (break)
Mahāmṣa: Actually, in all the schools the young people are learning all the bad habits from the schools. Instead of getting to learn how to do right things, they are learning to do all wrong things because of association with people from low families.
Vasughosa: And they even have sex education in school. They are teaching people how to be rogues.
Dr. Patel: They are all Aryans. They are more enlightened people.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: In fact, they were the real Aryans. Iran.
Prabhupāda: Iran, yes, Aryan.
Dr. Patel: That Gāthā (Zoroastrim Scriptures) is practically sixty percent Sanskrit language.
Prabhupāda: Gāthā?
Dr. Patel: Gāthā. They have got a.... These Zoroastins read Gāthā just like Bhagavad-gītā. I have read it. I could understand very easily because it's Sanskrit dialect language. One professor has come from United States. He is staying here in a school of Parsis, and I am the doctor of that school. He said that this is completely Vedic religion. He has studied the Vedic philosophy also. He is teaching theology in some university of United States.
Prabhupāda: That is the point. Therefore we are trying to enlighten people to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Dr. Patel: And a scientist trying to unearth the secret of nature means Kṛṣṇa. He is doing work for Kṛṣṇa, and he cannot be...
Prabhupāda: No, no, everyone has to work for Kṛṣṇa. Just like a prisoner in the prison house. He is also working for government, but he is forced to do it. Then nobody can escape Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible.
Dr. Patel: Right, sir. But the scientist is not forced to do it. He freely does it.
Prabhupāda: No, anyone. Why scientist? Even cats and dogs, they are also doing for Kṛṣṇa. You cannot.... Nobody can say...
Dr. Patel: But scientist willingly does it to unearth the secret. Don't call him a rascal. The scientist does it.
Prabhupāda: No, I don't say. Kṛṣṇa says.
Prabhupāda: So that is going on. They are busy in manufacturing chairs, how to sit comfortably, without any knowledge that what is the value of life and what is life. This is going on. They are thinking that constructing big, big skyscraper building and motorcars and high roads and so many, so many, unnecessary things, that is advancement of civilization. No. Advancement of civilization is there when you know what you are. That is advancement of.... You can.... There is no prohibition. The materialistic way of civilization, constructing big, big house, there is no.... You don't stop it, but if you forget yourself—you do not know what you are—then it is wasting time because the human life is specially meant for understanding "What I am?" The cats and dogs, they cannot do. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to enlighten people actually what he is, what is the aim of life and how his life will be successful, how at the present moment he is living, how he is spoiling his valuable life. These are the subject matter dealt in these books.
Prabhupāda: (tape very distorted) They are not beggar. But Kṛṣṇa has assured, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahām... Why they should go to beg? That this is only a process to approach them. If you approach any gentleman as beggar, he'll give you, at least in India. Not.... Just to enlighten, give them education. (break) He's thinking, "This is life." And the sannyāsī's duty is: "No, not this is life. You are in darkness, mūḍha." That is sannyāsī's business: to enlighten. (break) ...everything, and only for understanding future, they'll be left on the hand of the nature. Is that very good proposal? Hmm? No. There must be.
Indian man: But they have process. They earn wealth. That's all. And no future for the child, they don't...
Prabhupāda: There are such.... Obstinate dogs. (break)...difficulty. Mūḍha. They are mūḍhas, and they will continue to remain mūḍha. Then how you can make him enlightened? They cannot answer properly. Why a dead child born does not grow, does not change body? The body is a lump of matter. Analyze the body. Where is life? These are all very reasonable. But they will not. Dog's obstinacy. How you can convince them? Simply waste of time, talk with them. Therefore they should be neglected.
Rādhāvallabha: They did one experiment where they took a...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: What do you think in our movement is impractical? I have given you a practical example that you are paying so much money to the suffering women, especially who have got children but no husband. So, but what is the result? They're not satisfied. They're still committing sinful activities. So the money, giving money, we're giving, is no solution. That is practical. And here, the same girl, I do not give her any money, but by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they're satisfied. It is practical. So therefore people should be enlightened with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then problems will be solved. Otherwise, even you give him some money, that money will be spent and no satisfaction. This is failure. Our monetary problem.... Actually, we have no monetary problem. Kṛṣṇa has given us money. Our expenditure is more than, I think, two hundred thousand dollars daily. Hm? What is our total expenditure, can anyone say?
Prabhupāda: Because they are spiritually enlightened. That is the cause of brightness. And materially involved-moroseness. Because it is ignorance. Material life means life of ignorance. And spiritual life means life of enlightenment. That is the difference. Material life is called tamas. Tamas means darkness. Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya. This is the Vedic mantra. Don't remain in darkness. But people cannot understand. "I am living in the light. Why I'm darkness?" Darkness means without any spiritual enlightenment. That is darkness. So the Vedic injunction is "Don't remain in darkness. Come to the light." The light is my spiritual life, and material life means darkness. Because he does not know what is going to happen next. You are under the laws of material nature. The nature will act according to the association you make, exactly. You do not know that you are infecting some contagious disease. You may not know it, but it will act. In due course of time, you'll develop that disease and suffer.
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is failing. They have failed, these Christian priest, to explain everything philosophically. So advanced Westerners, they are now educated in science philosophy, they are not attracted with these dogmatic views. So to remain in ignorance is animal life. To be enlightened is human life. And the topmost enlightenment is to understand God and to love Him. That is the topmost enlightenment. Unfortunately, there is no education to know what is God, and what to speak of loving Him. This is modern civilization. Ignorance. A civilization of ignorance. They do not know what is what. Simply speculating, wasting time, talking all nonsense. This is going on in the name of education, but actually they are in ignorance. They do not know what is what. They are reading so many philosophical speculation, horrible condition of the so-called philosopher, scientist. Simply "I believe," "In this believe, that believe."
Prabhupāda: Under the circumstances, that would be another kind of defeat for them. All these considerations by Arjuna definitely prove that he was not only a great devotee of the Lord but that he was also highly enlightened and had complete control over his mind and senses. His desire to live by begging, although he was born in the royal household, is another sign of detachment. He was truly virtuous, as these qualities, combined with his faith in the words of instruction of Śrī Kṛṣṇa (his spiritual master), indicate. It is concluded that Arjuna was quite fit for liberation. Unless the senses are controlled, there is no chance of elevation to the platform of knowledge, and without knowledge and devotion there is no chance of liberation. Arjuna was competent in all these attributes, over and above his enormous attributes in his material relationships.
Prabhupāda: Take more also, give him one more.
Scheverman: They're very good. I'm afraid I won't be very enlightened if I eat all this.
Hari-śauri: You have the Fathers' shoes?
Scheverman: We'll get them when we go down. It's a great pleasure. May the Lord bless you in your work. Continue.
Pālikā: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Very nice to meet you. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Scheverman: We'll see you in.... (priests depart)
Prabhupāda: Somebody's going (indistinct)
Jayādvaita: These priests like to be in the position of your disciples.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Jayādvaita: These Christian priests.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So to accept a spiritual master must mean that one is in ignorance and one is enlightened.
Prabhupāda: For ignorance there is no need of guru. An ignorant cannot inquire about God. Intelligent man can inquire about God.
Guest: We have to pick up our children. Thank you. (break)
Prabhupāda: Pick up children from a school? Do you know him?
Devotee (2): They're from Wheeling.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Once you said, Śrīla Prabhupāda, "If you are God, what will you do when I kick on your face?" Because if God is creating the sun, such a great planet in the sky, thousands of tons of energy, so if they are the source of the sun, but "What can they do if I kick in their face? Nothing. So how is that God?" Kṛṣṇa, when..., someone was, Paundraka, he was saying he was God, He said, "All right, hold My cakra." And He took off his head. So to these false Gods we can say "What will you do if we kick you in the face? You cannot save yourself."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Question number four. Even a well read, widely traveled, and enlightened editor like the late Śrī Frank Moraes... I think that's how you... M-o-r-a-e-s. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Who is he?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I don't know. He's late though.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: He has died, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He's dead. He was enlightened. "...equated Hindu ethos with castism." He equated that Hindu culture, or Hindu ethos, and castism is one and the same. "Will the fundamental values of Hinduism be in any way affected by the eradication of castism, towards which a concerted effort is now being made at all levels?"
Rūpānuga: It looks like the devotees are the only people who are enlightened in this dark world. By your mercy, only the devotees can actually see anything properly and understand the condition.
Prabhupāda: In Russia, that Kruschev, he was... Now, where he has gone, nobody knows. Finished. Nobody knows.
Hari-śauri: They retired him. They gave him a small place just outside Moscow.
Prabhupāda: You know that?
Hari-śauri: Yes, there was a story about five years after he got kicked out of office. He was just doing nothing, living by himself.
Prabhupāda: And what he has done? Nothing, and what he has done?
Prabhupāda: Everyone has mixed-up ideas because nobody is properly trained up. Some ideas they have got, some inquiries they have got. But unless one comes to the right person, he cannot be enlightened. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Therefore one must approach the proper guru.
Rūpānuga: Everyone has accepted the wrong authority. Everyone has accepted the wrong authority.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because he's misled by sense gratification, so even he approaches a guru, if the guru cannot satisfy his senses, he doesn't like. Because he's under the subjugation of senses, he expects that guru also will satisfy his senses, then he is guru. If guru says something against his sense gratification, "Ah, he is not guru." (laughs) Guru also must be a person who can satisfy your senses. This is his sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: So we are trying to enlighten...
Vṛṣākapi: This gentleman is from the embassy, Śrīla Prabhupāda. The ambassador couldn't come personally but sent his representative.
Vipina: The minister of political affairs at the embassy, Venkateshvara.
Prabhupāda: Venkateshvara? So by evolutionary process we come to this human form of life. It is a chance to understand the value of life, to understand God and our relationship with God, and if we are missing this opportunity, that's a great loss. Then you again become in another form of life. That is sure. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change this body, and if we are not prepared, what kind of body we are going to get next life, then we remain like animals. The animal does not know. And human life, if you are missing this important point, that "I am going to change this body, and what kind of body I'm going to get?" if I do not know, then what is the difference between me and the animal?
Prabhupāda: They are mūḍhas, that is already explained. If you cannot convince them, then avoid them. What can be done? Instead of wasting time, you better avoid them. Upekṣā. Useless. Because godless persons means duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ. So it is the duty of the preacher to enlighten them also, to take some risk. But if one is unable to take risk, he may avoid them.
Devotee (1): When we go to universities, so often we run into very educated people, so-called educated people. Of course, they see us, they think that we are simply sentimentalists, that actually we are not..., don't really have knowledge of the universe. I've explained to these people, it's not necessarily that they are sinful so much as they are just miseducated.
Prabhupāda: No, educated means they have knowledge, but real knowledge is taken away. He does not know God. Just like a man is rich, but he has no food. It is like that. māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. Therefore his knowledge is misused, duṣkṛtina. This knowledge, without any sense of God... Yes, come in. Sit down.
Prabhupāda: The material civilization is the jāgrati for the materialistic person. But those who are spiritually enlightened, they think that these persons are sleeping. They got the opportunity of understanding God, and without understanding God, they are simply busy with the material body and its comfort and working hard day and night, and missing the point. And whereas the materialistic persons, they see these Kṛṣṇa conscious people, Hare Kṛṣṇa people, they are wasting their time by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and they are doing nothing. Just the opposite business. These people are seeing the materialistic persons, they are sleeping, not enlightened to the spiritual life; and these materialistic persons, they are seeing that these people, under some fictitious idea, they are spoiling their life without enjoying material facilities. Just the opposite.
Prabhupāda: Then you present them. That is, I have taken, that this is the summum bonum of Indian culture, Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is accepted all over the world as the greatest book of knowledge, so take this standard and preach, and people will be enlightened, without misinterpretation.
Guest: Here's a swami, Swami Krishna-prema Idavatakar from Gorakhpur Vinodiya from Calcutta.
Indian lady: Swamiji, I made this for you.
Prabhupāda: Oh, thank you very much. Very nice. He has come here? Let him come.
Indian lady: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Thank you.
Prabhupāda: ...of this human being, people do not know how they are kept in ignorance. And because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, out of His causeless mercy He comes to deliver us from this ignorance. Unfortunately, they are so much engrossed by the illusory energy, they do not take advantage of the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. So therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is being propagated that these dull-headed mūḍha—they are being described as mūḍha, dull-headed; they do not know actual interest of life. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). These dull-headed conditioned souls, they do not know their real self-interest, being influenced by māyā. Māyā is also Kṛṣṇa's energy, so it is her duty to punish the conditioned soul because they have decided to forget Kṛṣṇa. Still, Kṛṣṇa is so merciful, He comes personally, He authorizes His devotees, servants, to enlighten these conditioned souls. Now our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an humble attempt to raise the standard of these conditioned souls to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: That any rascal will do. Bambharambhe laghu kriya. Aparkulasvenavargolajagundakuligondoliojalīlāvale... (gibberish) (laughter) You can talk like that—what is the meaning? That intelligence they have got, to manufacture... I know, I was in the medical business. So any petty medicine, and you inquire medical man, and he'll present it in such a scientific way that people will think that it is very important thing. I know it well. In Bose's laboratory we used to do that. Aparkulavenavargolajdgunda... This is... (gibberish) Simply soda bicarb and little this and that. So the modern world means how to befool persons, that's all. Not to enlighten, but to keep them in ignorance and befool them more and more, and they like it. Under the influence of māyā they like to be cheated. (sounds of fire engines) Now just see the whole night there is blazing fire, and they are thinking they are happy. And if we sing saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka **, "the material world is blazing fire," that is sentiment. And this is not practical. Whole day and night, simply fire, disturbing.
Interviewer: But there are some very intelligent men who are not spiritually enlightened, perhaps even men who understand that they are not, or the body is not all, the body is dead and there is something else. Why aren't these men spiritually aware?
Prabhupāda: If one does not understand this simple thing, that he is not body, then he is no better than animal. That is the first understanding of spiritual platform. If he thinks that he is body, then he is in the same category as the animals.
Rāmeśvara: Her question is... Suppose someone has some faith in life after death, and he also may be an intelligent man by material standards. Why isn't he automatically...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, so final, that unless you are spiritually realized, you do not know what is the final end. The final end is that we are part and parcel of God. Somehow or other we are in contact with this material atmosphere. So our final aim is to go back to home, back to Godhead. Unless we know this and we practice how to return back again to Godhead, then we have to remain within this material world, transmigrating from one body to another. Therefore the human intelligence is meant for understanding the spiritual identity and the goal of life and act accordingly. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is an educational movement to enlighten the people from gross ignorance to the highest enlightenment of spiritual understanding.
Interviewer: Is it an internal educational process or external?
Prabhupāda: That's good. They are enlightened, the daughter and the son-in-law both?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Well, they are both interested, but they are also very much...
Prabhupāda: Biased. They are also biased.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is natural.
Hari-śauri: The Trans-India people, they'll come tomorrow, at four-thirty, if that's all right, and the doctor is on his way up now. He'll be here in five minutes.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Dayānanda Prabhu is doing very nicely.
Prabhupāda: Very nicely.
Prabhupāda: So fools cannot be enlightened. That is the difficulty. If they do not accept the authority, then they are fools.
Indian man: Yes. After I teach Gītā and I try to tell them to please sing...
Prabhupāda: That is not their fault. Even the big, big leaders of India, even Gandhi, they do not know actually. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. The Bhagavad-gītā has been misinterpreted, misused by the leaders, by the politicians, by the so-called philosophers. Everyone has misused.
Indian man: I'll tell you one thing, that Swami Chinmayananda...
Prabhupāda: He's a great...
Indian man: He's great, but I'll tell you what happened.
Prabhupāda: "Great" means great fool.
Prabhupāda: That's a fact. If one actually interested in real philosophy, they must come to spiritualism. Ātma-tattvam. That is ātma-tattvam. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long they do not come to this platform of understanding ātma-tattva, whatever rascal they are doing, simply defeat, that's all. Parābhava. Simply frustration and defeat. This very word, parābhava, means defeat. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. Why he's defeated? Abodha-jātaḥ. Because by birth he's a rascal. Abodha-jātaḥ. And this will continue yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long he's not enlightened to inquire about spirit and the science of spirit, he'll remain in that, that, what is called, defeat position or conquered position. So we have to now increase our scope. Everything we have got. And if you don't come to this platform, ātma-tattva, then your all attempt will be defeat. You are already defeated, frustrated, simply struggling, that's all. Either take the capitalist or communist, who has conquered? Everyone is defeated.
Prabhupāda: Yes. At the present moment, the soul is dependent on the material body because he has no spiritual culture. Just like we Indians, we were under the British rule. So long there was no national movement, they remained dependent on the Britishers. But as soon as there was national movement they became independent. This is a crude example. Similarly, because we have no spiritual cultivation, we are dependent on this material body. Actually, the soul is not dependent on the body. It has become so under certain condition: because he's thinking that he is this body. They have been described as mūḍha. Mūḍha is an ass. Mūḍha means ass. So I do not know what it is here. In India the asses are kept by the washerman. The washerman loads tons of cloth on the back of the ass to take it to the waterside, and again he brings back to the washerman shop, and the washerman gives a morsel of grass, little, and he eats the grass and stands there to carry the tons of load, thinking that he's dependent on the washerman. He has no intelligence that grass can be had anywhere, why I am dependent on this washerman to carry so much load. Lack of knowledge. Similarly, we are dependent on this body for lack of spiritual knowledge. As soon as he'll be enlightened by spiritual knowledge, then no more dependence.
Prabhupāda: ...but if there is no material activities, then you are not affected. This is possible. Just like an iron rod, you put into the fire. Gradually, it becomes warmer, warmer, and at last, when it is red hot, it is fire, no more iron. Similarly, even though we have got this material body, if we cultivate spiritual life, then the activities of the material body will stop automatically. Therefore it is no more material. The same example, the iron rod has become already fire. So you put it in the fire, and continue it, then you'll understand that it is no more iron rod, it is fire. Touch anywhere it will burn. You cannot say it is iron bar. Similarly, if you become spiritually enlightened, then the material activities will stop and then you'll be happy. (break) You'll feel, "Yes, I have got some food."
Prabhupāda: No, in a moment you can be spiritually enlightened. So why don't you agree?
Ali: Why I mean is from the time that you start, has it got deadline or something.
Prabhupāda: Well, starting, just like when there is a seed sown, the starting is there. Now it grows a tree and there is fruit, there is flowers. The fruit is green now. When it is yellow mango and ripe, you can take. The beginning is when you sow the seed. Just like child. The father puts the seed within the womb of the mother. The body begins from that moment, grows and grows. When it is fully grown up it comes out and acts and then walks. So beginning is there. You can begin at any moment. But it is spiritual, it does not take so much time. You should remember spiritual. Just like speed, there are different kinds of speed. Mental speed and physical speed. Physical speed, you have got a very good nice airplane.
Prabhupāda: Don't remain ignorant. But unfortunately people are so absorbed in asat things they do not know what is sat. They cannot go to the sat platform. They cannot go to the light platform. And they are struggling like that. No solution. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). The government may change, but the men are the same, in darkness. What improvement will there be simply by changing government? The persons who are governing, they are in the darkness. So how, by change of government, there will be change of situation? I said in, where? That the United Nations is an assembly of dogs barking. Where did I say it? It was published in the paper. I said that if you keep them as dogs, and if you ask some dogs, "My dear dogs, please do not bark. Live peacefully," is it possible? The dog will bark. That is their business. So we are not enlightening them what is actually we are. We are keeping on this bodily conception. That is the dog's conception. And how there will be peace? There cannot be.
Minister: How you are enlightening them, it is a very great service. No doubt about that. And you are making the man, the human being a servant of that (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: This is not my manufacture. Śāstra says kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam.
Minister: They have said so many things in the name of śāstra. They have said so many things in the name of śāstra. That you are making it one is very good.
Prabhupāda: No, those who are approved śāstra is accepted by the ācāryas. Śāstra, which is accepted by the ācārya, that is śāstra. You cannot make. As you cannot manufacture religion, you cannot manufacture śāstras. Approved by the ācāryas. Ācāryopāsanam. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says also that you should know from the ācārya. Everyone. They are preaching Bhagavad-gītā with the purpose of killing Kṛṣṇa. Everyone. The politicians, the scholars, the rascals, and everyone. The main purpose is how to kill Kṛṣṇa. In Bombay I have got a very big friend, you know him. I do not wish to disclose his name. He has set aside ten lakhs of rupees for preaching Gītā. But he wants Gītā without Kṛṣṇa. Rāma without Sītā. Rāvaṇa's policy. Take away Sītā. Rāma will remain alone.
Prabhupāda: But not that willfully do something wrong. There is punishment. If one unconsciously, without any knowledge, does something wrong, that is excused. But they do willfully. They know it is wrong, still they do it. That is punished. Knowingly. Caitanya Mahāprabhu personally said, asat eka strī-saṅgī. Those who are habituated to illicit sex are punishable. Asat. It is very, very bad. And still if somebody does like that, he is punished. This is going on. "All right." Here illicit sex... The bābājīs, I heard, they say, "What is the wrong there? It is love." They say like that. They take it as love. "Gopī's love," they say. "Gopī's used to do that, used to have illicit mixing, intermingling with Kṛṣṇa. What is wrong?" They'll say. They get support from Kṛṣṇa līlā. Such rogues they are. Sahajiyās. There are many so-called gentlemen, they write books on Kṛṣṇa līlā, paint picture." This is very nice. Kṛṣṇa is advocating illicit intermingling." They take it as support of their sinful activities. I have seen personally. Anyone who is a woman-hunter, he's being addressed by his friend, "Oh, you are like Kṛṣṇa." They take Kṛṣṇa as a man. How they will take instruction of Kṛṣṇa? Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. We are teaching people to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, to become servant of Kṛṣṇa, and the so-called gentlemen, enlightened gentlemen, take Kṛṣṇa as a debauch.
Prabhupāda: So that is your interpretation. But we are trying to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is our mission. That you produce food grains sufficiently and give protection to the cows so that food grains and milk will give you all benefits of economic question. You'll be satisfied. That's all. Not only that, I have practically seen that by God's arrangement there are so much land on this planet that you can produce ten times food stuff of the whole population. But they are not doing that. They are utilizing land... Just like in Africa I have seen, enough land is there, but what they are doing? They are keeping some cows and bulls, and when they are grown up... They are not given anything to eat. There is enough grass. And as soon as they are fatty, they are taken to the slaughterhouse. Not for their own eating, but exporting. This business is going on. Similar business is going on in Australia and New Zealand. Unnecessarily they are killing these cows, and this shortage of foodstuff and shortage of milk, this is not good arrangement. The recommended process in the Bhagavad-gītā, that annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). If you have sufficient foodstuff, then everyone is satisfied. And it is the duty of the vaiśya class, kṛṣi go-rakṣya vāṇijyam (BG 18.44); go-rakṣya vāṇijyam vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam. The, according to Bhagavad-gītā, this is the business of the vaiśyas. The brāhmaṇas, they should be very much highly educated, enligthened in spiritual knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Indian opinion. I have already given suggestion. The Indians should come forward. And from here also, similar if the member... Respectable Indian businessmen they should say that this Kṛṣṇa cult is very, very old, genuine and we are so enlightened that Swami Bhaktivedanta has taken this movement to the foreign countries. We are so proud, like that.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We want to do that.
Prabhupāda: And that is a fact. Everyone is feeling proud. Take all signature of the gosvāmīs here, influential, that this is genuine. Prove there, that it is genuine movement.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And we have letters from Swami Premananda and all the (indistinct) from Bombay, and sent all these to Rāmeśvara.
Prabhupāda: The home attachment is so great. These Delhi passengers, they are coming, hanging, and there are so many accidents daily. And few hours he will live with wife. That is his home. And whole other, out of twenty-four hours, seventeen hours are outside, and maybe seven hours at home. But still, he'll come home. The home attachment is very big. Therefore we have to create attachment for this hari-saṅkīrtana. If you create that attachment, then they will give up home attachment, try life, to live here. Athāsaktiḥ. You have to train them in Kṛṣṇa consciousness in such a way. Then
- ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-
- saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā
- tato 'nartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt
- tato niṣṭhā rucis tataḥ
- (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15)
Āsakti. Then they will be attached here. Spiritually if you enlighten them, then they'll be attached. They'll voluntarily say they are accepting here. The chanting, chanting, then... This is the beginning, that "You chant and take prasādam." Then ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12).
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It is great, fortunate that you are trying to understand. So if you try to understand this philosophy, you understand it is not the so-called religion, it is a culture for benefit of the whole human society, para-upakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, para-upakāra. Because people are in the darkness of knowledge, to enlighten them, to come to the light, that is Vedic injunction, tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ. Do not remain in darkness, come to the light. So our attempt is to bring these people who are kept in different types of, or different standards of darkness, to bring them to light. This is our position. It is not sectarian. Not for the Hindus, not for the Indians, but it is meant for the whole human society. Kṛṣṇa never said that He's Hindu or He's Indian. He says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). He never says that "I am for the Hindu or for the Indians." Sarva-yoniṣu. There are 8,400,000 species of different types of life.
Prabhupāda: Wherefrom the life is coming? These rascals, they do not understand what is actual science, how things are going on, how the laws of nature is working. Simply superficially, "We have got some ideas." Fundamentally they have no knowledge. So we are trying to enlighten them with our teeny effort. Although it is single-handed, still it is genuine. If you kindly try to understand the whole philosophy—the first thing is, andhā yathāndair upanīyamānā, the whole world is now being conducted by blind leaders. And they're keeping people in darkness because they are themselves in darkness. They do not know what is light. So they do not know what is the object of life, what is the destination of life. Simply in blind faith they have created so many isms. It is simply misleading. It is little difficult to understand that we are simply leading others... That's a fact, that's a fact.
Prabhupāda: So this is a movement to raise people from the platform of cats' and dogs' life. It is little difficult but we have to do it. That is our mission, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, para-upakāra. They're living like cats and dogs, do something good for them so that they may live like actual human beings. This is our... So you kindly stay here for some days, read our books and if there is any question, doubt, I shall be very glad to enlighten you. But this is the fact, the whole world is misguided by the rascal leaders, I must say that. Andhā, andhā is the last word of rascaldom, andhā yathāndair upanīyamānā. If I say (to) somebody, "You are rascal." There is maybe, partially he may be intelligent. But when we say andhā, andhā, then his life is... He cannot see anything. So that is the description given by Bhāgavatam, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā (SB 7.5.31).
Dr. Patel: Washington and people like Jefferson. He has polluted that seat. They must change that seat. Change the White House wholesale. The greatest curr on this most, I mean, enlightened people. Americans are very enlightened because their forefathers were enlightened and they came there as pilgrims. Those, what do they call them? Puritans, you see. They are most different from Aussies. The Australians who are criminals of England.
Prabhupāda: If Nixon is a Jew?
Dr. Patel: No, no. He's a Christian. No Jew can be, serve as the president of that country. Not only Jew but not only Catholic.
Trivikrama: Well, some Catholics. Kennedy was...
Dr. Patel: Only Kennedy was the first Catholic to be. Otherwise till Kennedy came, there was no Catholic ever elected. (break) Methodist. Even in material world, he was a fool the way he carried out... (laughing) But sir, one thing: about the freedom of America. I have my hat off that that man could be knocked off by ordinary paper reporter. That would not happen in any other country.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I asked to take the government.
Prabhupāda: Change means we have lost our culture.
Indian (1): They have lost culture, yes.
Prabhupāda: This is change.
Devotee: So Śrīla Prabhupāda is offering the real Indian culture...
Indian (1): Yes, that is correct. We have to fulfill all these things. We have to teach them, we have to guide them, advise them, make them study, for that purpose conducting some classes in Sanskrit in the Hindu community... (break)
Prabhupāda: He has allowed us to go to the United... (break) ...assembly to enlighten them. So we, are going there. Recent letter? Where is...? (end)
Guest (1): We're also enlightened by your knowledge.
Guest (2): No, no, sir. Definitely. At least light of this... Light of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you are giving it to all.
Prabhupāda: So... No, no. So you have to take the light and the sun—a process. Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu saṅgo tato bhajana-kriyā.
Guest (2): All right.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (2): When you are giving a darśana... Yesterday we came to see you. That, these people, had to go to Bombay yesterday. But when a certain uttered that you have come here, we were astonished. They ran to my office, told me that "Guruji has come." "No, you are wrong." "No, you see. It is from our local newspaper." He's from Bengal. So he came for us and told me he would let us go and see. By five o'clock they had told him... "Let us go."
Prabhupāda: But Japanese are very intelligent, Bengalis are intelligent, by taking fish and rice. In Bengal ninety percent people, they take fish. Here also, Orissa, cent percent, even the Jagannātha pūjārīs. In Bihar also, fifty percent. The more you go towards Western part of India, you get more wealthy province, just like Uttar Pradesh, very wealthy province, enlightened. All the big cities are there: Allahabad, Kanpur, Agra, Lucknow. Every hundred miles you get a very nice city in UP, the best province in India. All the holy places-Vṛndāvana, Prayāga, Hardwar, Ayodhyā, many celebrated holy places. Ganges and Yamunā flowing, two sacred rivers. Both of them through in Uttar Pradesh. And all the cities are either on the bank of the Yamunā or Ganges. And that is the best province, state, in India. It has got fifty districts. And fifty districts means fifty towns. Little more or less important. But the Kanpur is the third important city in India. First Calcutta, Bombay, and next, Kanpur.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There are so many educated, enlightened men. They will take.
Tripurāri: So we should pick out certain individuals, then, to approach, not just go door to door.
Prabhupāda: This is Melbourne.
Bali-mardana: Melbourne temple.
Prabhupāda: Gaura-Nitāi is wonderful, Melbourne. Eh?
Bali-mardana: Here is another picture, just of Gaura-Nitāi.
Prabhupāda: This Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, we...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You brought from India.
Hari-śauri: That's right.
Bali-mardana: You personally...
Prabhupāda: We are not orphans. We are taken care of by our rich father, very wise father, very rich father, able father. We are not forlorn orphans. We have got respectability. And we offer our respect to father. We depend on father. We are safe. Everyone can become safe. The opportunity is offered. If you don't take, that is your misfortune. We are offering, "Every one of you can become safe, safely protected by the father, Kṛṣṇa." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣa... (BG 18.66). Why don't you take advantage? That is your misfortune. If you want to remain unfortunate, don't (indistinct). These rascals, they want to remain. We have got knowledge for understanding whole philosophy. So try to convince this philosophy in Australia. And Kṛṣṇa will help you more and more. The more you try to convince others about this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the more you become enlightened.
Hari-śauri: This is 1.2. I think that verse is quoted here in the Gītā though.
Prabhupāda: So nice thing. Even little done, you get chance again. The students who are coming, give them nice place, nice food, nice intelligence. Organize Bombay. You will get many enlightened students, professors, doctors. "Come on, live with us."
Hari-śauri: It is quoted in the purport in connection with this,
- nehābhikrama-nāśo 'sti
- pratyavāyo na vidyate
- svalpam apy asya dharmasya
- trāyate mahato bhayāt
- (BG 2.40)
Prabhupāda: Ah.
Hari-śauri: (reads) "In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear."
Prabhupāda: The most dangerous type of fear is if my next life I become an animal. That is the most dangerous. But those who have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, given some service, for them there is no such fear. He gets another chance. Hmm.
Alice Coltrane: I like the mental chanting better. I seem to be more and more enlightened...
Prabhupāda: This is my message.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She says that she likes the mental chanting more than chanting out...
Alice Coltrane: With the mind, you know.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She likes to chant more with the mind.
Prabhupāda: As it is convenient. But chanting with mouth is better. You can hear; others can hear. If you chant within, then you'll remember only. But you chant loudly, others can hear. Others are benefited.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means that our goal is not to do business. It's to enlighten people. (pause) So Vrindavan Chandra got off nicely. The train was on time, and he was very glad to receive all the prasādam. And they gave him a garland. He said he would remember everyone, such a nice visit he had. He actually enjoyed himself. I gave him the Nectar of Instruction to read. He read it.
Prabhupāda: Hindi.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. I gave him the English edition. And he said he would write as soon as he got back. He got quite a nice send-off, four or five people. Bhagatjī, Guṇārṇava, Tamāla Nārāyaṇa, the temple commander. It's a little (indistinct). And they sat him down in the seat and made sure everything was all right. Everyone gives him a lot of respect. They know that he is your son, so when he walks out everybody was offering their namaskāras.
Prabhupāda: His position is lost.
Haṁsadūta: Yes. It's quite lost. Everyone has been enlightened about his flimsy position.
Prabhupāda: (coughing) Our secretary, Kṛṣṇa? Secretary... Eh? I just forget his speak...(?)
Haṁsadūta: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: I'll get Tamāla.
| Page Title: | Enlighten (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 11 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=106, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 106 |