Englishmen (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"english man" |"english men" |"englishman" |"englishman's" |"englishmen" |"englishmen's"

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- February 12, 1969, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: In what... Are there fundamental differences between, or is it simply a difference in approach between your awareness and interpretations and, for example, those of the people who are involved with Zen? With some of the other Eastern concepts? Would you like to...

Prabhupāda: No, of course, I do not know what is Zen conception, or Eastern conception, but we agree with many of them, just like we agree with the concept of God presented by Bible or Koran. That is recognized. And Bhagavad-gītā is so simple that it does not require any interpretation. When things are understood directly, there is no question of interpretation. When things are not understood, then you can interpret, I can interpret. So the verses of Bhagavad-gītā are so simple that there is no question of interpretation. Unfortunately I have seen that in Bhagavad-gītā, commented by a great scholar like Dr. Radhakrishnan, the verse is translated very nicely and that is done by an Englishman, but he interprets in a different way. So when we can understand the thing very nicely, there is no question of interpretation. You see?

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: So Bhagavad-gītā is so nice book and it is accepted. Not that because we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are advocating for Bhagavad... No. It is accepted by scholarly section, religious section, not only in India, but all over the world. Perhaps you know. In every country there are thousands of Bhagavad-gītā translation, in every language, in English, in French, in German, all languages. And even Mohammedans... Of course, scholarly Mohammedans, they also read very nicely Bhagavad-gītā. I know one Mohammedan professor in India. He was a great devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa. He did not disclose that he was a devotee, but he was observing Janmāṣṭamī fasting day and he was writing one article on Kṛṣṇa every Janmāṣṭamī day. There are many. They read. And in our childhood... Not childhood, we were young man at that time. So one Englishman was a tenant in Calcutta, my friend's house. So he was vacating the house. We went to take possession of that house, and he had many books, and there was a book, Bhagavad-gītā. So that, my friend, Mr. Mullick, he was a little astonished that "He is Englishman, he's Christian. How is that, he has got Bhagavad-gītā?" So he was touching that book, and that gentleman thought that "He is my landlord. He may like that book." So he immediately said, "Oh, Mr. Mullick, I cannot present that book to you. This is my life and soul." He said like that. So Bhagavad-gītā is accepted by scholarly section, by philosophers. So I think people should have one scripture, one God, one mantra, and one activity. One God, Kṛṣṇa. One scripture, Bhagavad-gītā. And one mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa. And one activity, to serve Kṛṣṇa. That's all. There will be peace. There will be actually peace all over the world. So I request you to, at least to understand this philosophy to your best knowledge. And if you think that is nice, you take up. You are also willing to give something to the world. So you try this. You have read our books, this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is? No.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prof. Kotovsky: In London among Indian community...

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Prof. Kotovsky: ...among the different(?) peoples of Indian community.

Prabhupāda: This is organized by the Englishmen and the Americans. Indian communities in London and San Francisco, they are trying to become sahib. You know the word sahib?

Prof. Kotovsky: (laughs) Westernized.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Westernized.

Prof. Kotovsky: Modern process of Westernization is going on in the world. But Prof. Srinivas...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Kotovsky: ...with the very grace (indistinct) of some anthropologists at Delhi University...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Temple Press Conference -- August 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: It's Kṛṣṇa's mission to awaken man's original consciousness. At the present moment we have got designated consciousness. I am thinking "I am Indian," you are thinking Englishman, another is thinking American. But actually we are neither American nor Indian nor any that sort of designation. We are part and parcel of God. That is our real identification. If we come to that consciousness, then all the problems of the world will be solved. Now, due to our designated consciousness, we are thinking, "You are different from me, I am different from you," but if we come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we shall know that we are one, the same spirit soul, maybe in different dress. That is the explanation given in Bhagavad-gītā. Just like we are all human beings, gentlemen, ladies. Maybe in different dress, but our aims and objects are the one and the same. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is purificatory process. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). To make people free from all designations. Tat-paratvena nirmalam. And in Kṛṣṇa consciousness they become purified. And when they're purified their activities by purified senses make them perfect. That is the ideal perfection of human life.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: Swamiji you'll be glad to know your society like ours is worldwide and not based upon color, creed, or designations

Prabhupāda: Yes, designation means falsely identifying that I am this body. Now the soul is in this body. Next time the soul is in another body. So according to the body we are having designations. As soon as we get American body, I think myself American. Next life, if I get a body of a dog, then I think myself dog, designate. According to the body I create my designations. But one has to become free from all designations. That is called liberated stage. This is own constitutional position. That position is eternal servant of God. That is the real position of every living entity. But because at the present moment the living entity is in contact with matter, so according to the material modes of the body, he's identifying himself with this body. That is called material designation. "I am American." "I am Englishman." "I am Hindu." "I am Muslim." "I am this." "I am that." These are all designations. So real perfection of life is without designations. And that is the real constitutional position. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109).

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: Socrates, Christ, plenty.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So here the love propensity is being misplaced in this material world. That should be placed in God. Then the love will be perfection. Just like if you pour water on the leaves of the tree or branches of the tree it is simply a waste of time. If you pour water on the root then the effect of pouring water is distributed. Similarly, foodstuff, if you place the foodstuff on your nose, on your eyes or your ears, it is simply wasted. But if you put foodstuff to the mouth in the stomach immediately the energy derived from the foodstuff is distributed throughout the whole body. Similarly, if you love God then your, automatically your love is distributed to everyone, every entity. But if you don't love, if you simply love your country... Just like an Englishman, you love your country; German, he loves his country, but there is fight between the English and the Germans because the love is misplaced. But if the Germans or the Englishmen or the Indians they put their love in God there will be no more fighting. Therefore our philosophy is to educate people how to love God. That is real religion. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That is first-class religion which teaches the follower how to love God. And as soon he becomes a lover of God... Just like I am Indian, but I have come to western countries to teach love of God. It is not that I am satisfied only in myself that I love God, that's all right. But due to my love to God I love others also, because I am trying to teach them to love God, the same philosophy. So if people take seriously this movement, how to love God, then human society will be first-rate.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with John Griesser (later initiated as Yadubara Dasa) -- March 10, 1972, Vrndavana:

amunā: Even if we have dog's obstinacy, if we just associate long enough, then it will act upon you.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if we open our heart, then open-heartedly, then it will be nice. No reservation. And that open-heartedness means free from designation. That is open-heartedness. If I think, "Oh, I am American. Why shall I take this Indian philosophy?" Or if I think, "I am Christian. Why shall I take the philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā?" then it will not work. One has to be free from these designations. Then it will be easy. I am... God is God, and I am also part and parcel of God, my relationship with God. So let me understand what is that relationship, what is God, what I am. That freedom, that open-heartedness will make it. But if I try to understand as Christian, as Englishman, as Japanese, as Indian, then it will be difficult. Many of our students joined, even initiated, but they could not make them free from these stereotyped ideas. Sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). One must be free from the... Aiye aiye. So let us go. Take the box.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Sumati Morarjee: Ah, I know.

Prabhupāda: Was the Muslim League.

Sumati Morarjee: I know.

Prabhupāda: This all Englishmen subscribes.

Sumati Morarjee: Because you know is the policy divide and rule.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that was it. (indistinct) was made.

Sumati Morarjee: Otherwise, nobody will do anything. So, I won't take your time Swamiji.

Prabhupāda: No, you can sit down.

Sumati Morarjee: Because you are tired, oldly. I'm going to preserve this mālā.

Prabhupāda: Thank you.

Sumati Morarjee: I put it, give it to my daughter. She is very fond of roses.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes

Sumati Morarjee: Oh yes, she's crazy...

Prabhupāda: How old is she now?

Sumati Morarjee: She's ten. Today I'll, starting today in the afternoon, I remembered so much that I wish Swamiji was here, she gave a Manipuri dance recital in our office, and became Rādhā.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice.

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) The, our present conditional life is rebellious. We have rebelled against the authority of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord. It is very simple thing. Just like a person, a citizen, if he becomes rebellious, then he is arrested and put into custody, and his life becomes conditioned, he has no freedom. Similarly, as soon as we are rebellious to the authority of the Supreme Lord, we are captured by māyā—that is also an energy of Kṛṣṇa—and we become conditioned. So this is our position. So in this conditional life we can never be happy, that's a fact. So we have to transcend this conditional life and again become engaged in our constitutional position. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now our consciousness is polluted. We are thinking different way. Just like a madman thinks that..., sometimes he says, "I am the king." He stands sometimes in the midst of the road: "Stop, I order you!" Does he not? Madman. (laughs) Nobody cares for him, but he says, thinks like that. Similarly, under the spell of this illusory energy, we are thinking differently. Somebody, I am thinking "I am Indian," you are thinking "Englishman," he is thinking "American." I am thinking "I am proprietor of this," I am thinking "I am the master of this." So many ways. These things are all madman's proposition, that's all. So this madness can go when we actually surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Then we can understand things as they are. So we are training our students in that way. If anyone is serious, then he can make his life successful, even during this span of life. So I'm very glad that you have got this attitude. So it is very simple thing. Hm? There is a Bengali verse, (Bengali). Just like a person ghostly haunted, he speaks so many nonsense, up to somebody's declaring "I am God." First of all "I am this; I am that. I am this; I am that. I want to become this. I want to become this." And when he is frustrated with everything, then he says, "I am God." That is also another illusion. How you can become God? So, insanity. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means sanity, that's all. So to come to that position of sanity, Lord Caitanya has given us very simple method: chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. If anyone sincerely chants without any offense, then his life is successful. So what is your name?

Ian Polsen: Ian Polsen.

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: He stopped him. Accidentally he stopped. (laughs) Not willingly.

Devotee (2): Yes. He tried to pull him up from the water, he went in himself.

Prabhupāda: It is very nice, funny man with intelligence. And before him there was another, Mr. Max Linder.

Devotee: Max Linder.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He was also very funny Englishman. In our childhood we used to enjoy their play, Max Linder and Chaplin, or Charlie Chaplin.

Devotee: They were showing them in India?

Prabhupāda: Uh? Yes. Max Linder, I remember, he was sitting in a park. (laughter) You know that?

Devotee: I don't know anything about it.

Prabhupāda: He was sitting in a park, so that English dress, that tail coat? What is called?

Devotee: Coattails, yeah.

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Devotee: Coattails, yeah.

Prabhupāda: So the tail was hanging, so some naughty boys, they fixed up nails, you see? So when he got up, the whole tail gone, you see? But he could not understand. He went to the ball dance. So he's dancing, so everyone's seeing his tail, in this way. So he thought, "Oh, what is the matter?" He went to the mirror and he saw, "Oh, my tail is lost." (laughs) Then he came again in the ball dance and he was pushing everyone, just to show. And everyone was asking, "What is this? What is this?" "Oh, you do not know? This is latest fashion. This is latest fashion." Then all of them cut the tails. I think he had taken the idea, (Sanskrit). This is Sanskrit story, that (Sanskrit), or monkey, he lost his tail, and he began to advertise, "This is the latest fashion." So that ball-dancing without tail, that was, I remember, it is very enjoyable. They say that Charlie Chaplin is the student of Max Linder. He learned this funny play from Max Linder. So I knew Charlie Chaplin is an Englishman.

Devotee: Yes, he is.

Prabhupāda: He is Englishman.

Devotee (2): He went to America and then he made all these films.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee: He went to America and he made a lot of money there.

Indian: As far as I know, Prabhupāda, he was Jew, but he used to live in east of London, or south of London. There is an autobiography about it.

Prabhupāda: Max Linder, ah, Charlie Chaplin? Yes. He was a London man.

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They actually expanded their empire all over the (indistinct) world by Indian cooperation. Therefore these big men like Attlee, when they thought that "India is going out of our hands," so don't (indistinct) up our empire. Forget it. They voluntarily (indistinct).

Devotee: The whole thing. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Now they are not, those Englishmen, as they were in Victorian day. Nobody cares for you.

Devotee: You'll see the last remnants at that Commonwealth Club, I think, engagement. No more, no one cares.

Prabhupāda: Commonwealth is in name. (pause)

Devotee: Still, there is something about London. Everyone likes to come here. There's so many... There's not enough hotel rooms even.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee: There's not even enough hotel rooms to accommodate so many tourists who come here to London.

Prabhupāda: London is still famous. People outside, they have got very high idea about London.

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: In America general life is becoming wretched.

Devotee: Wretched. Police don't even carry guns here.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee: Policemen don't even carry guns in Britain, but in America every policeman's got at least one gun.

Prabhupāda: The Englishman... I've studied Englishman. They consider America is still uncivilized. They say like that. (indistinct)

Devotee: Still uncivilized, yeah.

Prabhupāda: But here also hippy-ism growing.

Devotee: They've lost that old aristocracy civilization. Losing it fast.

Prabhupāda: So write Girirāja immediately a letter, that she agreed to be president of the trust. You make a trust body for fund-raising, and our best life members, like Sumati Morarji, and make her the president of the trust. You remain the secretary, and other also, as treasurer also. One or two of her own men.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Gandhi started the movement from Africa. South Africa.

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gandhi was attempted to be killed in South Africa.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. One time he was crossing the street and the man beaten him so severely. He could have died. One Englishman saved him. He was attempted to be killed. After this incidence, when Gandhi returned to India, he became leader automatically. (pause) When Dr. Kalidasa-nama...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Kalidasa?

Prabhupāda: Dr. Kalidasa-nama. Did you hear his name?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Only just now.

Prabhupāda: He was our professor. So he was explaining the different ages of archaeologist, anthropology.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is in philosophy, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No, history.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: (break) without knowing Kṛṣṇa, is this a struggle for existence, any activity?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Activity without knowing the purpose of it, that is struggle for existence. You must know why you are working so hard. What for I shall work? The aim of life is missing. Na te viduḥ. They do not know it. Therefore failure, confusion, hopelessness. All the results of this world, hopelessness. Is it not? What is one... Show one result, that it is very successful, hopeful. Just like, say, moon planet-hopelessness. What is there? They spend so much time and money, but what is this? Hopelessness. They do not know. All scientists are working, all politicians are financing, but result is hopelessness. Is it not? Similarly, everything they are doing, but they are so rascal, they will never admit that "We are failure." Still they will stick, "Yes, we are success... Future, in ten years we shall do it. Never mind." I have seen, one man was condemned to death in Allahabad high-court. So the lawyer was assuring, "Don't be disappointed. I shall get you out by appeal. Don't be disappointed." I have seen it. That lawyer was very big lawyer, an Englishman, Mr. Allston. And one man was condemned to death. He killed his servant very mercilessly. And the case was... He was a doctor, medical practitioner. So he was condemned to death. So after the condemnation, when he was coming out of the courtroom, I saw that he was flattering, "Don't be disappointed. I shall get you out by appeal." This is going on. He wants to bluff him, but this is the high-court judgement. How there can be appeal? There may be appeal in the Supreme Court, but he is simply bluffing. Just like medical men. They'll repeatedly give you medicine, "All right, let me try this. This pill you try. This pill you try." They will never admit, "This is hopeless." This is going on. Bluffing, simply bluffing. Cheating, that's all.

Room Conversation With David Wynne -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Bad association.

David Wynne: Ah.

Prabhupāda: Therefore, our Society is association. If we keep good association, then we don't touch the darkness. What is that association? There is a song, sat-saṅga cari goinu asate vilāsa teka name lagi loma karma bandha phāṅsa.(?) Sat-saṅga. Sat-saṅga means association with the devotees. That is called sat-saṅga. So the, one poet, Vaiṣṇava poet, is regretting that "I did not keep association with the devotees, and I wanted to enjoy life with the nondevotees. Therefore I'm being entangled in the fruitive activities." Karma bandha phāṅsa. Entanglement. Here in this material world we act, and the result is there. Again we enjoy the result and act, again another result. We act, another result, another result. Because as soon as you act, there will be some result, good or bad. So, good or bad, by good result we get good birth, good money, good bodily features, good education—these are the effects of good work. And the effects of bad work, low-grade family, abominable, ugly bodily features, no education, no money, poor—these are the two effects of material good and bad work. But those who are trying to be transcendental both to the good and bad work, devotees, they are perfect. Because in this material world either you do good work or bad work, you have to suffer the material condition. Just like you are, suppose you are Englishman, you are well situated. But you can not avoid the influence of the weather. (laughs)

Room Conversation With David Wynne -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That is our problem. Either you become rich man or poor man, but you have to undergo. (aside:) Make the light. There is switch. (pause) So our position is that we are in this material world. George has sung that "I am in the material world." Yes, very sensible song. (laughs) He's good boy, realizing, he also... So this material life is not good. Material life is not good in this sense, because you have to change your body. Sometimes good birth, sometimes not good birth. Sometimes Englishman, sometimes cats, dogs. Because after death you'll get a body that will be chosen not by you but by the material nature. You'll create your body by your present activities, and nature will simply award you that body. So, so long we have got this material body, the four kinds of miserable conditions, repetition of birth, death, old age and disease, you have to suffer. Therefore, this human life should be utilized in such a way that we do not become subject to these four tribulations, birth, death, old age and disease. That is perfection. But people are not given that chance, the modern education, modern civilization. They've no knowledge; they do not know that there is life after death, although it is a simple fact. Just like in our present existence we have got past, present and future. Just like you are young man, you have your past. You are a child, or a boy, now that is past. Present, you are young man, and in future you are expecting to become old man. So as you have got past, present and future, similarly, I'm old man, I've got my past life, why not future? What is the reason to deny it? Past, present, future, that is the time calculation. I had my past, I've now present, and why is my future? They do not care for the future. They're so blind. There must be future. So what I'm doing for the future? Just like in this life we collect some money, keep in the bank balance so that in future, old age, I may not be in difficulty. Similarly, what a human being should do for his future life? That he does not know, although past, present, future is there. So this is foolishness. He doesn't care for the future.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

David Wynne: There's other pictures inside, though, aren't there.

Śyāmasundara: You saw inside the pictures?

Prabhupāda: Yes. But this picture is very nice.

Śyāmasundara: Yes. The other pictures were quite revealing too, because they showed Englishmen and Indian people, foreigners everyone.

Prabhupāda: Everyone, yes. And they have declared that we have distributed "free prasādam."

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: "To all and sundry."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

David Wynne: You should write and ask for prints. They'll send you proper prints of that in the paper, you know.

Śyāmasundara: Oh. That's a good idea. We'll try to get the photograph of that, original photograph from the paper.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That will be very nice.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Buddhist Monk (1): What we believe is that incomparable bliss and peace everlasting is the most perfect.

Prabhupāda: That is... These are items. These are items. First of all you have to follow a perfect leader. Then whatever he says, that is perfect. So that peace, you have given a definition of peace. Kṛṣṇa is giving definition of peace:

bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ

sarva-loka-maheśvaram

suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

(BG 5.29)

"I am the proprietor of all the lokas," sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. "I am the friend of everyone." Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasām. "And I am the enjoyer of all fruitive activities." Jñātvā mām. "When one knows Me like that, he gets śānti." This is the śānti formula given by Kṛṣṇa. One has to accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Enjoyer. Because He's the proprietor of everything; therefore He should be enjoyer. And because everything belongs to Him—we also belong to Him—so suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām, He's friend of everyone. So these three things, if you understand-Kṛṣṇa, or God, is the supreme enjoyer. He is the supreme proprietor, and He is the supreme friend of everyone—then you get śānti. If we understand these three things only, then there is śānti. Otherwise there is no possibility of śānti. Now, how it is fact, that is a subject matter of discussion. Say, Kṛṣṇa says that sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29), "I am the proprietor of all the lokas." And now you study this fact. Who is the proprietor? We are claiming proprietor, nation. Englishmen, they are claiming, "This land belongs to the English people." Others claiming this land belongs to the American, Indian, like that. But are they actually the proprietor? Take for example the American land. Two hundred years ago, or, say...? How many years ago they won it?

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

David Lawrence: So he believes that there is the God conscious experience.

Prabhupāda: He must realize that he's not this body. He is different from body. But I am encaged now in this body under certain condition. So at least this... This is called jñāna. Jñāna. So long one is in the bodily concept of life, he is affected with so many things. So many things. So this bhakti-yoga begins when one is purified from the bodily concept of life. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). Now, these boys, they are coming from different nations. But they never think that one is Englishman, another is American, another is Indian, another is African. No, we don't think like that.

David Lawrence: No.

Prabhupāda: At least, we have surpassed that stage. If we have not advanced in any other way, (laughter) at least we have advanced in this respect. We don't consider on the bodily concept of life. What do you think?

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is our qualification. Yes.

David Lawrence: Unfortunately, as we find, the youngsters that, certainly that I teach, have got such materialistic views of their...

Prabhupāda: If you keep the students as English boys or American boys, then it will be difficult. Then the, the cultural question will come up.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

David Lawrence: It was interesting to see a recent television program in this country...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

David Lawrence: ...on farming, and it was talking about the so-called modern methods of farming which have destroyed the earth in this country, really, in great areas. And it showed an Englishman and his son who believe in the old methods with cows on the land. And he is not only doing better economically, but he was so happy, the two men were so happy.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

David Lawrence: They were just working with nature, not against nature.

Prabhupāda: Just like so much field is there. You, if you take the all village people, you can produce enough food for them in this village. So much land is lying there. Simply you keep cows and till ground, get your food grains. Enough. And if you take the whole planet as it is, you can feed ten times population. There is so much prospect. Australia, Africa. So much vacant land. You can produce enough quantity of milk and food grains.

Room Conversation with Malcolm -- July 18, 1973, London:

Śyāmasundara: His argument in the newspaper by other people complaining against Zaner's argument. Not members of our movement, but other people, Englishmen. "Zaner is a fool," this and that.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, they have called. He is a fool.

Śyāmasundara: We'll bring them up. They're in the Times, letters to the editor.

Prabhupāda: And we have directly called him fool, rascal.

Śyāmasundara: Other people are also criticizing. They find other things in his argument that are not... They say he has to realize Bhagavad-gītā before he can criticize anything.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He does not realize. He does not know anything. You can read this letter. It is very interesting.

Śyāmasundara: To Zaner this one? Or to...

Prabhupāda: General, general. Reply.

Mukunda: We've also invited him to come here.

Śyāmasundara: No one defended him in the newspaper, Observer.

Prabhupāda: So other protests have been published in the paper?

Śyāmasundara: Yes. I'll bring them up to you. (end)

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You understand Hindi? No.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: No, I don't. No, no, no.

Prabhupāda: No. The inquiry was that "If we again give votes to the Englishmen, will they come and do." (laughs)

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So they were feeling the... Actually, in India... In our childhood, we know. Every Indian felt very secure. They never expected that Britishers will go. They were so sympathetic. And now they... This is the pulse felt by that statistics officer. They are not very much satisfied with the present system of government. British administration was very much appreciated by the Indians. Even Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura appreciated. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he has written in something, somewhere, that "The Britishers also very nice because they don't interfere with the religious affairs." So as soon as they changed their views and tried to divide the Hindus and Muslims, the British Empire lost. According to Queen's declaration, the Britishers pledged that "They will not interfere with your religious affairs." Later on, for political purposes, when they interfered with this Hindu-Muslim question, then the British Empire lost.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is quite reasonable. When... (break)

Prabhupāda: Everything... In this table, whatever is there, it is created. The table is created. The light is created. Everything is created by somebody. So how I can deny this fact, that somebody has created the whole universe? If you say, "It has comes automatically, dropped," that is rascaldom. It must be accepted somebody has created. So who is that somebody? You have not created. The Americans have not created, the Englishmen have not created, or I have created, you have created, but we can understand that somebody has created. So who will be the proprietor? I shall be proprietor or the creator shall be proprietor? Who shall be the proprietor?

Dr. Inger: Creator. Of course.

Prabhupāda: Creator. So why you are claiming other's property as "my own"? "This is my country. This is my country." And we are so rascal and we are making United Nation.

Room Conversation with Graham Hill Former World Champion Race Car Driver -- London, August 26, 1973:

Prabhupāda: That is ultimate goal. So long we do not go back to home, back to Godhead, we have to, in our material existence, we have to change from one body to another. That is going on. And there are 8,400,000 forms of bodies. The cats and dogs, they are also living entities, but they have got a different type of body. Every one of us, different type body. Even they are children, their body is different from your body. Even the (indistinct). Although their body is obtained, there are some similarities. But if you analyze very scrutinizingly there will be some difference from your body, from your daughter's body, from your boy's body. So every body, every living entity is getting a certain type of body according to his desire. According to his desire. So that desire means material enjoyment. Just like you have got certain desire to become champion in racing. Another body has got desire to become something else. Another body has got desire for something else. So we have got this freedom by the grace of God or Kṛṣṇa. Because we are children. He has given freedom. "All right, if you want this, take it." In this way our life is going on. This is called birth and death. One chapter you are finishing in one life, next chapter begins another life. Next chapter begins another life. So the problem is birth and death. But nobody wants birth and death. Nobody wants. But it is there on account of our material life. So in material life there are four problems: birth, death, old age, and disease. So long one has to accept a material body, he has to accept these miseries also. Birth is also misery. When the child remains within the womb, in a compact bag... Very precarious condition. We have forgotten, but it is very precarious condition. And for ten months, because he is unconscious at least for seven months he cannot understand. But after seven months when the child becomes conscious, it is very intolerable. He always prays, "Oh, how to get out, how to get out." Then he gets, come out, comes out. Then another life begins. That is also accompanied with so many miserable conditions from the birth. Just like, don't mind, when you drive your car, it is not a very good position. (laughter) Yes. But you are taking that risk for winning over. But the position is not very good. At any moment there can be accident. So similarly, we are trying to achieve some goal of life, every one of us—there are so many varieties of living entities—with the risk of life and death, old age and disease. But if we know what is our actual aim of life... The actual aim of life should be back to home, back to Godhead. Then this human form of life is successful. Just like your son. If he goes out independent. Now he is under father's protection, he is very happy. But if he declares his independence... Just like Śyāmasundara. He is very rich man's son. His father, I met him. His father is a big lawyer, big businessman. But he declared independence. And I know his life history, how much he had to go through so many tribulations. Similarly, we are also sons of God. We have declared independence and we are going through so many chapters of life and death in different... Now we have got... Suppose you have got now a nice Englishman's body but next body you do not know what kind of body you are going to get. That will depend on your karma and desire.

Room Conversation with Officer Harry Edwards, the Village Policeman -- August 30, 1973, Bhaktivedanta Manor, London:

Śyāmasundara: Oh yeah.

Harry: Well, that would be Kṛṣṇa's will, mercy.

Guest (English Man): No, it depends, you know, if it's just some minor thing, you know.

Śyāmasundara: (talking over) ...maliciously try to take our property or something valuable, we have to defend.

Harry: Yeah. And how would you defend by? Yeah. (laughs) Yes, that's it, how would they defend?

Revatīnandana: That's where you come in. (laughter)

Harry: 'Cause that's right, you were the one who said that we could move in with a gun and shoot them, didn't you?

Revatīnandana: No, I didn't say that. I'm the one who hit him with a big piece of wood. Yeah.

Harry: Oh, you are? Well, they said they'd, "Why... Shoot them?" I said, "This is England, not America." (laughter) That was the cows, you know. Remember the cows?

Śyāmasundara: Well, in America, we're used to shooting rustlers, you know.

Harry: Yeah, but, uh...

Śyāmasundara: String him off the nearest tree.

Revatīnandana: Lynchings.

Harry: But what are you going to do about your security? Can I talk to this about this, you know?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: He has done this. You can see from...

Professor: Yes, but there's a translation by Franklin Edgarton (?) of the Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Translation is all right, but his commentation is wrong. Translation is all right. I know. That's very nice. It is done by some Englishman. Eh?

Professor: Well, that's one. Yes. And also there is Edgarton (?). He was an American Sanskrit scholar.

Prabhupāda: No, translation, there is, there is good translation. But he comments like that. Just like Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. When Caitanya Mahāprabhu was asked that "You are hearing; You do not speak anything," He said, "Yes, I am understanding the original verse of the Vedānta very clearly, but you are trying to cover the meaning. Therefore I am puzzled." This is the business of the Māyāvādīs. They'll simply puzzle. That's all.

Professor: Who? The Māyā...?

Prabhupāda: Māyāvādī.

Professor: Māyāvādī, hm.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You also told me that it is very difficult to understand the jugglery way of presentation.

Professor: Well, I think it's time for me to leave.

Prabhupāda: All right, thank you.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Dr. Hauser: Oh yes. But that's very often a symptom of a, of a psychosis that they feel that they are persecuted by, by foreign powers or by...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Foreign powers, yes. So this is called ghostly haunted. So our material conception of life, this is also ghostly haunted, madness. "I am Christian. I am Hindu. I am Muslim. I am Englishman. I am German." These are all conception of ghostly haunted. Because spirit soul is pure. In the Vedic language it is said: asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. The spirit soul has no connection with such designations. Just like in dream we see so many things. But it has nothing to do with me. So this is night dream. At night, we forget all these things about the day dream. "I am this, I am that. I am this family-member. I am his father. I am his husband." And so on, so on. At night, when dream, are in a different situation. And we forget everything. And again, in daytime, we forget everything of the night dream. We come another dream. So this is also dream. That is also dream. I am simply observing. In daytime I am seeing some dream, gross dream, and at nighttime I'm seeing some subtle dream. But seer, I am. Under different condition, I am seeing different things. I think you treats this madness. He's sees things in different way, in different positions.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Dr. Hauser: But the dreaming of the night also has another function, according to my...

Prabhupāda: No. Dreaming at night, dreaming at day. The same thing. The pattern is different. Pattern is different. If you think that you are Englishman, you are Swedish, or if you are Hindu, you are Muslim, that is also dream. You are none of this. As much as you are none of those dreaming things at night. But due to our madness, sometimes we take: "This is fact," sometimes we take: "That is fact." But none of them are facts. Under different condition, we accept them as facts. But none of them are facts. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness means: sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). When one becomes freed from all designations. Upādhi. Upādhi means designation. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam. Completely free from all designation. Just like in dream I think I have become now king. I am the proprietor of a factory. But none of them. It is only dream. Similarly, in day dream I am thinking I am the father of this family, I am the mother of this family, I am this, I am that. That is all dreaming. So one has to become free from this dreaming condition. That is called sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170), liberated from all kinds of false designation. Designation... Designation means false...

Dr. Hauser: But some of these false, false designations also are the machinery of a society.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also false.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: They're United Nation, first of all let us settle. They are fighting: "I'm Arabian," "I'm Indian," "I'm American," "I'm Englishman..." "All right, let us settle actually to whom this planet belongs." They cannot do that, because all of them are thieves. None of them will agree that it belongs to God. The real fact, that they will not agree. Then how there can be peace? Because they're all cheaters. They want to cheat God. God's property, they're claiming "ours." All thieves and rogues, so how there can be any settlement? There cannot be any settlement.

Devotee (1): If we approached them and we said something like that, they would laugh.

Prabhupāda: That's because they're rogues. Against their ideals. "Why you're laughing like fools? Does it belong to you or your father? This whole world? Why you are laughing like a fool?" You should have said like that. "You're laughing not like a gentleman; you're laughing like a fool. Can you say that it belongs to your father? Or you'll be allowed to stay here in America? After some years you'll be kicked out. Do you know where you were going? Why you are laughing like fools?" This should be the answer.

Morning Walk -- December 31, 1973, Los Angeles:

Viṣṇujana: In this country they have the venereal disease. One out of ten men is suffering gonorrhea.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Long ago one professor, medical professor, he said, he was Englishman—that in our country, 75% students are suffering from venereal disease. Colonel Megor (?). Yes. Colonel Megor. There must be venereal disease because sex life is so cheap. There must be venereal disease. And venereal disease, once infected, it brings so many other diseases, one after another, one after another. The cancer is also due to that. Madness. Yes. And the Vedic civilization knew it. Therefore first restriction: sex. Brahmacārī. First beginning, brahmacārī. No sex life. You see? Just to save. This venereal disease is mentioned in the Āyur-veda. It is called phiraṅgāmaya. Phiraṅga means "white Europeans." It is diseased... And medical science also says that it was begun from dog. The girls, they have sex life with dog and there is the beginning of venereal disease.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Ye tu sarvāṇi karmāṇi mayi sannyāsya mat-parāḥ. Now, you have all your...

Prabhupāda: Sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ, that, it is very difficult. Because even Mahatma Gandhi, such a great person, he said, "Englishman, you go away." Just see. Who can be better than Mahatma Gandhi?

Dr. Patel: And he must have life like Bharata.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Dr. Patel: Jaḍa Bharata.

Prabhupāda: Is there possibility? He was so sacrificeful, but still, he was not sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ. Whole struggle was: "Englishman, you get out."

Dr. Patel: Sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ will be like Jaḍa Bharata.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ means who is devotee of Kṛṣṇa. He is sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Gurudāsa: Yes. The Britishers.

Prabhupāda: Britishers, they train. Just like in India, they trained. They were on the head of the administration. The Viceroy, the governor, the secretaries, the military commander, they are all Englishmen. All other, Indians. Therefore Gandhi started non-cooperation movement. That these people are ruling over us by our cooperation.

Gurudāsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So non-cooperate with them, they will fail. And that was successful. He started non-cooperation movement, that "Don't cooperate with these Britishers," and when they saw there is now full non-cooperation, they left voluntarily. It is not possible to bring so many administrators, military strength, men, men too. Actually the British empire was expanded through the help of Indians.

Gurudāsa: Yes, they did all the work.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: All Indians and all Gujarati baniyas who settled in Africa, one and all are multi-millionaires.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...also.

Dr. Patel: But they have migrated to London now. They are very well... People from England, I mean, Africa, especially East Africa, Kenya and Uganda... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...their own house in London. Every Indian. (break) Englishmen, they haven't got their own house.

Dr. Patel: No, Englishmen are very much afraid of business with... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...former purchaser, they sell to the higher bidders.

Dr. Patel: Yes. Very cunning. Very cunning people.

Bhava-bhūti: I think there is some complaint also here in Maharastra, some plan not to give any more Gujaratis job. Just simply... (break)

Prabhupāda: That is good.

Dr. Patel: (Heavy wind noise) And then so many, they... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...clean. Although there is no machine.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: No, he was right up to the end very conscious about this. Because of his Oxfordian education. I think he was in eternal hell, one of these things.(?) (break)

Prabhupāda: England. He was educated in England, but who can become...

Dr. Patel: Absolutely. It was a miracle, the greatest miracle.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He was... From very beginning of his birth, he is Englishman.

Dr. Patel: He was not allowed to speak Bengali by his parents.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Because in those days... (break)

Dr. Patel: We are forgetting Sanskrit very quickly.

Prabhupāda: No, no, those who are interested...

Dr. Patel: Now the schools, they don't teach as in our times. (break)

Prabhupāda: As soon as the kṣatriyas were negligent, immediately the brāhmaṇas should take step. That was the system. (break) ...offer advice to the kṣatriyas according to śāstra, and kṣatriyas would execute, and the vaiśyas would care for supply. And the śūdras, serving everyone. That's all. This is the system. (break) So he used to manufacture. To manufacture means śūdra. (end)

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: You see, so long people will remain under the bodily concept of life, that "I am this body," "I am Irish," "I am English," "I am American," "I am Italian," so long this misconception will go on, fight will go on. You see? Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātu... There is a verse in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Just like you cannot stop fighting between the dogs and cats. Why there is fighting? Because the dog is thinking, "I am dog." The cat is thinking, "I am cat." Similarly, if I think as Irishman, "I am Englishman," it is the same thing. As the dog is thinking, "I am dog," so if I think, "I am Irishman," "I am Englishman," I am no better than the dog. So as we cannot stop the fighting between dogs, similarly, so long people will remain in bodily concept of life, the fighting cannot be stopped.

O'Grady: What was Mahatma Gandhi fighting in the House of Commons in England?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also another dogism. Because there is no difference. Just try to understand. The dog is thinking, "I am dog." Why? Because he has got the body of a dog. Similarly, if I am thinking, "I am Indian" because I have got the body in the Indian soil, where is the difference? There is no difference.

O'Grady: The Englishman thinks there's a difference.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

O'Grady: I'm not saying it's possible to achieve it. I'm not even thinking it's possible. I'm not even saying that I think it's desirable to achieve happiness in this life, in this world. Because I have a feeling, an intuition that...

Prabhupāda: No, there is possibility—when the consciousness is purified. That we are preaching, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now, so long the consciousness is polluted, if I think that "I am Irishman," "I am Englishman," "I am Indian," "I am white," "I am black..."

O'Grady: Christian.

Prabhupāda: "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," they are all contaminated. There is no possibility of unity in the contact of this world.

O'Grady: That's very... I'll accept that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

O'Grady: But supposing you think that you are neither an Irishman nor an Englishman or American, nor Christian, nor a Jew nor anything...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is negation. Then you must say also what you are.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

O'Grady: Hm, not bad. Because actuality has to do with effect.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The actuality is immortal. He never takes birth...

O'Grady: Never takes bath?

Yogeśvara: Birth.

O'Grady: Oh, never takes birth, true. But immortality, I mean, actuality, of course, has to do with the actuality of the situation that we have right now, with you sitting there and we, as friends, sitting with you and engaging in gentle conversation.

Prabhupāda: Actually... Just like you are sitting in a different dress; I am sitting in a different dress. So the dress does not affect our actuality. We are human being. Similarly, the conception of body—"I am Irishman, I am Englishman, I am Hindu, I am Muslim, I am Christian,"—these are different dresses. So one has to become free from these designations.

O'Grady: Accepted.

Prabhupāda: So when one is free from the designations, then he becomes purified.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is already. Some fifty years ago. You know that Dr. Ghosh?

Bhagavān: Yes.

Prabhupāda: He told me that when he was student, so one professor, Colonel Megar, he described in the classroom—he is Englishman—that "In our country, 75% of the students, they are infected with venereal disease." So Dr. Ghosh as a student, "Oh, it is horrible." So he replied, "Why do you say, 'Horrible'? It is disease. In your country, 90% people are infected with malarial disease. So as a medical practitioner, you should not say that this disease is horrible; that disease is very nice. You cannot say that." That was between them. So this venereal disease, fifty years ago we heard that 75% of students are infected. Now they are advanced; cent percent must be.

Yogeśvara: There was a report in the New York Times that last year alone in the United States there were over 300,000 abortions, and more than two-thirds were performed on girls under twenty years of age.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is civilization. Poor girls, they are victims. These rascals are enjoying without any responsibility of marriage. And sex impulse is very strong between thirteen years up to thirty years. So people take advantage of it, and the poor girls become victim. So many anomalies. This is a doggish, demonic civilization. This is not civilization at all. They are not interested. They do not know what is the aim of life. First mistake is that "I am this body." This is doggish. Just like the dog is barking. He is thinking, "I am a big dog here. Don't come." Similarly, if a man thinks, "I am a big American, I am great Englishman," then what is the difference? The dog is also thinking like that. And Vedic civilization says, "No, you are neither dog nor human being." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am spirit soul." This is Vedic civilization. One is being trained up to understand this philosophy, that "I do not belong to this, any material condition. I am Brahman part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." Where is that conception?

Bhagavān: Now they have... the other day in the paper that India exploded its first atomic bomb.

Prabhupāda: Yes, and therefore yet it has become very great.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Now they're saying we have increased so many beds, that means suffering has increased. They are thinking that they have done so good in this so many hospitals, and so many beds have been increased but that means suffering has increased. Otherwise why is the necessity of the beds and the hospitals?

Robert Gouiran: Yes. It's not because some American hospital are not healer that healing does not exist.

Prabhupāda: No, no, they're trying, everyone is trying to heal, American or Englishman or European, it doesn't matter. Everyone is trying but there is no healing. That is our point.

Guru-gaurāṅga: He's saying that there is a value to temporary healing.

Prabhupāda: That's a... Temporary value, we also give but we say there is no healing.

Yogeśvara: Ah, yes, healing in the sense that it will never happen again.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: It is in his mind, that he thinks that he is healed. Just like if you have a disease and then you have terrible disease that produces headache and so you take aspirin to relieve the headache, but still the disease is there. So he thinks, "I am O.K. now."

Robert Gouiran: Wait, I say that taking aspirin is not a good healing.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: This is example. The disease is still there.

Robert Gouiran: Well, but it is by such example that we could be misled.

Prabhupāda: That is good thing, that is healing? Do you think honestly, there is healing? There is no disease?

Robert Gouiran: I have seen healings.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: In Delhi? He said that a man who has learned the art to, what is called, barking like dog, and people will go to see, purchasing ticket, ten rupees, twenty rupees, how the man is barking like a dog. And there are so many dogs barking. They won't see. This is our advancement. If a man has artificially learned how to bark, they'll go to see by paying fees. And the natural barking, they don't care. So these rascals are like that. They're trying to manufacture life. And so many life is coming by nature's process, millions and millions, that is no credit. And he's trying, utopian, he'll create life by chemical combination, he's given all credit, Nobel Prize: "Oh, here is a man." This is rascaldom. So what credit you'll get. Suppose if you can manufacture a man or an animal in the laboratory, where is your credit? There are many millions and millions are coming automatically. We are trying to give credit to Kṛṣṇa who is making all this creation.

Yogeśvara: There is one Englishman named Aldous Huxley...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: I have not said that you dress like that. You like, you do it. Did I say that you do it?

Priest: It's like the Indian Catholic priest dressing like a (indistinct) priest or like a European priest. I mean, they look as if they had a disguise with them.

Prabhupāda: No, no, just like when the English were ruling, English national. So the Englishmen never said that "You dress like Englishmen," but they automatically dressed. You know very well. They do like that. The Englishmen, they went there to get some money by trade, by politics. But they never went there to change their dress. But they thought that "If I dress myself like Englishman, I will be more honored." That is their point. Similarly, we never preach that "You dress like this." But the student, they like this dress. That's all right. What is the wrong there?

Priest: It's not wrong. It's funny.

Prabhupāda: Rather these girls, when they dress in Indian way, they look more beautiful. That you will have to admit. Yes. The same girl will dress in your...

Priest: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So the girls, the women, they like to be more beautiful. So if by dressing in other way they look beautiful, why should you ask them not to do it?

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Paramahaṁsa: So we should be able to see the quality of man we are preaching to.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you have to make him intelligent. Everyone is fool, mūḍha. Everyone within this material world is supposed to be a fool. Because everyone is thinking, "I am this body." So he's fool. "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am German," "I am Frenchman," "I am this," "I am that." What is the difference? A cat is thinking, "I'm cat." A dog is thinking, "I am dog." So if somebody thinks that, in relationship with the body, "I am Frenchman," "I am Englishman," "I am...", then where is the difference between the cat and the dog? He's thinking himself as this body. Therefore everyone is thinking, at least in this modern world, the so-called nationalism, everyone is thinking, "I am Englishman," "I am Frenchman," "I am Indian," "I am this," "black," "white." So everyone is fool. Is it not? Yes. He's thinking in a way what he is not. Therefore he's a fool. All these big, big political leaders, Napoleon, Hitler, Churchill, and in Europe , they fought with this consciousness, "I am Englishman," "I am German," "I am Frenchman." That's all. Even the big, big leaders, they are fools. And what to speak of common men?

Yogeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So the insanity is just like you are dressed and if you identify yourself with the dress, that is insanity. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says he agrees. That means to be identified with the appearance.

Prabhupāda: So that is insanity. We are actually the living force, soul, but we are identifying at the present moment with the material body. Everyone is thinking, "I am Japanese, I am Englishman, I am German, I am Indian, I am white, I am black," but that is his insanity. So this insanity should be cured, that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul." And when he understand that he is spirit soul, he should be engaged in the business of the spirit soul. And because he is misidentifying himself with this body he is engaged with the bodily activities. So when he stops his bodily activities and he begins his spiritual activities, then he will be cured. So far bodily, I mean to say, pains and pleasure, that will be automatically cured when he understands that he is not body. Just like I feel heat and cold on account of this body. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: They believe that the soul and the body is one thing.

Prabhupāda: How it is one?

Pṛthu Putra: He says we have one body, we have the soul, and these two things cannot be separated.

Prabhupāda: How the man becomes dead? (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says the man is like a phenomenon. He appears and he disappears. And when he disappears, he merge in this cosmic force.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: But as an experience, the pure consciousness as an experience, has to have a background which is not pure consciousness. Otherwise it could become...

Prabhupāda: No. Pure consciousness is actually you are. Just like water. Water is pure. When it is comes from the sky, it is clear crystal water. But as soon as it touches the ground, it becomes muddy. Similarly, we soul, spirit soul, we are pure. As soon as we come in contact with this matter, material existence, we become impure. And there are three stages of impurity: goodness, passion and ignorance. So all of them are impure. Unless one comes to the spiritual consciousness—he may be a very nice man—he is infected with the impurity of goodness. He is thinking, "I am very big man, I am very..." That is also impurity. And another man does not know what he is, just like animal, all the animals. That is also impurity. When both of them will come to the clear consciousness that "I am part and parcel of God; my duty is to serve God," that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So long he identifies with this material consciousness, he is impure. Just like people are fighting: "I am German," "I am Englishman," "I am this," "I am that," "I am black," "I am white," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am śūdra"—so many, designations. These designations are impurity. Just like sometimes the artists, they manufacture some statue naked. In France I saw, naked. They take it this naked statue is pure art, not dressed. Similarly, when you come to the nakedness of spirit soul without this designation of this body, "I am American," "I am German," "I am this," "I am that," that is purity.

Reporters Interview -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: If they do not accept, they are foolish, if God is one. God cannot be two.

Guest (3): So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is the purpose of human life to realize God?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the only purpose. Except this purpose, fulfilling, anything we are doing, that is animalism. As the dog is jumping we are also jumping like that. It is dog's dancing, that's all. What is the difference? A dog is thinking, "I am very strong dog. I am this." And another man—"I am Englishman. I am..." So what is the difference? Mentality is the same. To think of this body that "I am this body," that is required to the dog, to the man. When one understands that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul," that is humanity.

Guest (3): So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, have you realized God?

Prabhupāda: What do you think? What is your opinion?

Guest (3): I can't say.

Prabhupāda: Then if I say, "yes," then what you will understand? If you are not yourself expert, then even if I say, "Yes, I am God realized," how you will take it as truth? If you do not know what is God realization, then how you can ask this question and how you will be satisfied by the answer? You do not know.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: I am not thinking of India. I am not thinking of India. I am thinking for the whole human society. Why shall I think for India? Vasudhā eva kuṭumbakam. When we become God conscious, then we don't think in that way, "I am Indian," "I am Englishman," "I am Australian," "I am this," no. We don't think. This is the crippled thinking of the materialistic person. Paṇḍitāḥ sama darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Find out this verse.

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

śuni caiva śva-pāke ca

paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ

(BG 5.18)

Cāru:

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

śuni caiva śva-pāke ca

paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ

(BG 5.18)

"The humble sage, by virtue of true knowledge, sees with equal vision a learned and gentle brāhmaṇa, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater."

Prabhupāda: Because our vision is from the standard of the soul. The soul is there in elephant as well as in the learned scientist. So paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18), means a learned, advanced, spiritualist, he sees that everyone is soul. The body, material body, is dress. Just like we are talking with Dr. such and such, not with the dress. We are not interested with the dress, but we are interested with you, person. Similarly, these bodies are dresses, different dresses, according to the price he has paid. According to his work, nature gives him. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27).

Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Now they have got Australia. Australia is English possession?

Madhudviṣa: No. Prabhupāda: No, no more. Cāru: Not any more. Prabhupāda: But I know, all educated and advanced educated Englishmen, they were coming to Australia for good job. Therefore most of the technical posts, they are occupied by Indians in London. As soon as one is highly qualified medical man, he comes to Australia. So who will take care of them? So therefore they imported some brain from India. Anyway, our time should be saved for self-realization. That is perfect civilization. And not for creating unnecessary necessity of life. That will increase problem. So scientists, they disagreed or agreed with us? Madhudviṣa: They did not want to get... They did not want to... Prabhupāda: But they could not answer "Who is the manufacturer of the brain of the scientist?" That they could not. Madhudviṣa: You have said in one of your tapes, "They want to start half way." Like they say, "All of a sudden there is an aeroplane, appeared in the sky." They do not trace out where that aeroplane is coming from. So similarly, they are interested in the problems of today, but they do not want to delve into the essential problem. They are talking about building nice houses, using this, that. They do not want to delve into... Prabhupāda: This is practical. The scientists have got good brain, but who manufactured the brain? You cannot do. You have not manufactured your brain. If you say, "By nature," then nature is more powerful than you. But nature is dead. It cannot create life. That is in the hand of Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). As soon as the question of jīva, living entity, there, this, mine, you can say it is nature. And other things? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarva... (BG 3.27). Prakṛti, nature, is doing. Everything explained. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā: (Bs. 5.44) "There is an energy which can create, maintain, and destroy the whole cosmic manifestation." Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā (Bs. 5.44), one. There is one energy. Chāyeva yasya vibharti bhuvanāni durgā: "That energy is working just like shadow under the direction of Kṛṣṇa."

Morning Walk at Marine del Rey -- July 13, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...have discrimination because the British government, they think that the Ratha-yatra is becoming very popular.

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is the... It is actually rational discrimination. The Christians, they thought, "Now these Englishmen, they'll make Hindu religion very prominent." Because it is a fact. If we introduce such three-four celebrations, then Christianity will be finished. But what is there? Christianity, there is nothing. Simply some dry words. And actually, they're seeing, nobody's coming to the church. So in this way, if they some, relish something better, then whatever is there, that will be finished, also. Therefore in London we wanted to purchase a church.

Bali Mardana: A big cathedral.

Prabhupāda: Ah. And they said, "We shall burn it down; still, we shall not give to Bhaktivedanta Swami." They said like that.

Bahulāśva: Rascals.

Prabhupāda: "We shall burn it down." They are seeing practically. After all, they are businessmen. "Shopkeeper's nation." They see practically that if such kind of movements go on... People are already, have no interest in the church. In Chicago, they wrote "American Hindus." They wrote in the paper. Then Hindu, Hindu religion will be prominent.

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: By spiritual advancement means that heart disease is cured. Then you will be... Then there is no more envious that "I shall become superior. I shall become Kṛṣṇa. I shall become God." These are different symptoms of the same material disease. Somebody is thinking "I shall become minister," somebody is thinking "I shall become leader," somebody is thinking "I shall become millionaire," and at last, "I shall become God." So even the so-called religionist, that heart disease is there. Bhukti-mukti-siddhi kāmī. Bhukti means ordinary karmīs want to enjoy in this material world. And mukti, they also want "I shall become God, I shall become one with God." That means "I shall become God." One with God means I'll become. Bhukti-mukti and siddhi. The yogis, they want to show some magic power and gain. Just like this rascal is doing, (indistinct) Baba. He has some yogic siddhi, so he has some (indistinct). Otherwise what is the attraction? He is a most wretched man, always he's smoking, and he sleeps too long, no regulation of life. But people are attracted because they have been captivated that "If I pay him one lakh, I shall get two lakhs." This is the propaganda. It is a..., what is called, gambling. You put one rupee, and if you are successful you will get four rupees. Siddhi. Because material world, they think "If I get more money, then it is perfection." Everywhere, the whole world is thinking-nationwise, individual—how to become. You will find in Europe the same propensity. Napoleon is trying to make Paris the most opulent city in Europe. Or Englishmen, Gladstone and others, they are trying to make England, London, most opulent city in the world. Similarly, czar was very accomplished. (indistinct) it is burst out into war. So we see the propensity. In Paris, the Place Concorde, so many beautiful buildings are there for museum, how they have conquered. In Rome, how they have conquered over Egypt, that pyramid they have brought. You have been in Rome?

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Ambassador: ...they wouldn't have left easily.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, there was no need. Every country requires good government. So if somebody gives good government and keeps the people nice, happy, and people hasn't got any interest that the... Now they have made like that. Formerly, at least in India, they didn't care whether it is being ruled by the Mohammedans or by the Englishmen or foreign... They wanted peaceful life, that's all. So the Mohammedans, they made their home in India, the Moguls. They were not exploiting India and taking the money outside. Although the Moguls were very luxurious, but they were spending money in India, India's money in India. And, of course, they accuse, the Mohammedan government was very bad. But I think if it was so bad, how they could rule over India for eight hundred years? And in those days Indians were in their own culture. They did not lose their culture, Hindu culture. The Britishers peacefully killed the Hindu culture, Vedic culture, yes.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: When?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Because the Indian people, they have such a feeling for bhakti and service. Everywhere in the world we go...

Prabhupāda: But the Englishmen never took that line and when...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Did they teach God consciousness?

Prabhupāda: When our godbrother Acyuta Mahārāja and Bon Mahārāja was sent, Lady Willingdon, he derided them that "You Indian people you come here..." (break)

Rāmeśvara: ...say that Western civilization is very good for the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but they cannot teach their own children. They are becoming hippies. That is the effect of their education.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: You have to judge by the fruits.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot teach your own people, and you are going to teach others. "Physician heal thyself." Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Greets someone.) You have failed to teach your own children, they are disappointed, and you are going to teach others. This is another cheating. It is not the question of... That is another fault—"our," "your." There is no question of "our," "your." Any culture, actually if it is culture, it is meant for the whole human society. Why do you say, "our," "your." We never say, "The Kṛṣṇa consciousness is meant for Indians," or "for the Europeans." It is meant for everyone. That is our proposition. You have made this "our," "your," and bring another controversy. That is not the fact. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is meant both for the Indians and the Westerners. That is the fact. When Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), "You have to change your body," Kṛṣṇa never meant that it is meant for the Indians. It is meant for everyone. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ is not meant that Indians only change and they become vanished, European. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ is everyone. So try to understand this philosophy.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...nobody said that this meat-eating is bad; now I am saying. You see? So they do not know that it is bad. So they are not offenders.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And now that you are saying, many people are stopping.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Somebody, they act... Just like illicit sex. They did not know that it is sinful. Now they are understanding. There was no good leader. Even the priests. In the Bible it is said, "Thou shalt not kill." The priests never said, because they are meat-eaters. They themselves are meat-eaters. How they can say? "It is our tradition to eat meat." But how the common man will be educated? (break) You can give me the general prasāda today. I will taste. (test?) (break) When one becomes rich, he becomes lazy. What is called? "Leads to poverty"? Luxury. "Luxury leads to poverty." So at one time one become very rich by hard work, and next generation gets the money for nothing, he spends it on luxuries, and the third generation, poor. There are many families, in everywhere. In England, all these English men, in the beginning they worked very hard, expanding their empire and working. Then gradually, when they became Lord family, then luxury. Now they are poverty-stricken.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: In Calcutta. I was educated in a college. My professors were all Europeans.

Dr Copeland: Which college?

Prabhupāda: Scottish Churches' College. You know that? In our time Dr. Watt, he was principal. And I was student of philosophy of Dr. W. S. Urquhart. He was my professor. And our English professor was Mr. Cameron,(?) Mr. Scrimgeour, Mr. Warren. And I was student of economics also. One Mr. Keith, he was also... All our professors were Scotsmen, Englishmen.

Dr. Copeland: And after you left the college, were you employed?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I was appointed manager of a very big laboratory, Dr. Bose's laboratory.

Dr. Copeland: Ah, yes.

Prabhupāda: You know?

Dr. Copeland: I've heard of it. From another worker. While you were in the college or afterwards, did you participate in any political movements?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I joined this Gandhi's.

Morning Walk -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Judge, he was judge.

Madhudviṣa: He was a judge, yes. He went to great extent to build the house. It was during this boom area when...

Prabhupāda: Englishmen were coming.

Madhudviṣa: Yeah, the Englishmen were coming and because Queen Victoria was there..., the king had died, so the order was passed that no one could buy any, I think, jewelry for their wives.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Madhudviṣa: It was something. The English frowned upon buying jewelry and ornaments for the women. So the men were using their money to build big houses.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Madhudviṣa: So therefore during the Victorian area, era you have many elaborate houses that were built by the Britishers. And he...

Prabhupāda: Victoria died in 1903.

Madhudviṣa: He was said to have brought some Italian plasterers from Italy to do all that elaborate work on the ceilings in the house.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: There was a great devotee in South India. He was a treasury officer. So he took money from the treasury and constructed very nice temple. (laughter) Yes. Later on, he was caught, and he was put into jail by the Nawab. At that time the Mohammedan king, Nawab, he saw in dream that two boys, very beautiful, they have come to the Nawab: "Sir, what money he has taken, you can take from me and release him." So the Nawab said, "If I get my money, I can release him." Then, when his dream broke, he saw the money on the floor, and nobody was there. Then he could understand that he is great devotee. He called him immediately, that "You are released, and you take this money also. Whatever you have already taken, that's all right. And now this money also you take. You spend as you like." So devotees sometimes do like that. Actually nothing is private property. That is our philosophy. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: (ISO 1) "Everything belongs to God." That's a fact. Under the influence of māyā we are thinking that "This is my property."

Just like suppose this cushion. Wherefrom the wood has come? Has anybody produced wood? Who has produced? It is God's property. Rather, we have stolen God's property and claiming, "My property." Then Australia. The Englishmen came here, but is that the property of the Englishmen? It was there. America, it was there. And when everything will be finished, it will be there. In the middle we come and claim, "It is my property," and fight. Is it not? You are a barrister, you can judge better.

Morning Walk -- June 16, 1975, Honolulu:

Devotee: "Tree goat."

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...prepare, it is better than meat.

Devotee (1): (break) ...the seeds.

Prabhupāda: Yes, big, big seeds. That is also very digestive. If you make it powder, it acts like, what is called, pancreas.

Bali-mardana: I think you once told a story about an Englishman who wanted to taste jackfruit.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...tree, jam. It is berry, but blue.

Devotee (1): They call it java plum. It's a very... It's bitter fruit? Is it very bitter?

Prabhupāda: Not bitter. It is sour, little sour.

Siddha-svarūpa: They makes a blue stain?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You have got?

Siddha-svarūpa: Many here, yes.

Prabhupāda: That's very good. That is very good for diabetic patient.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Gerson: I think here in America that people probably criticize because they're ignorant, and I hope to...

Prabhupāda: That "American" that I have discussed. Those who are in the bodily concept of life, they are not even human being. They are animals. Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). One who takes this body, "I am, I am American, I am German, I am Englishman, I am Indian," they are animals. They are not even human being. When you deny, that "I am not American, I am not Indian, not Englishman. I am not this body," then he is in the spiritual body. That's all. And so long he will identify that "I am this body, and because my body is American, therefore I am American," that is animal life. That is not even human life. So that is going on all over the world, identifying the body as self. "I am American, I am German, I am Englishman, I am Indian." The whole United Nation is based on this conception. So where is the unity? If you are thinking as "American" or "Indian" or "Pakistani" or "German," so where is the question of unity? But they have manufactured a false method, United Nations, by lecturing. Just like if you bring a dozen of dogs and ask them, "Live peacefully," will they live peacefully? They will bark, "Ow! Ow! Ow!" So this is going on. If you keep them as they are, dogs, how you can expect unity? So they should not remain as dogs. They should come to become human beings, then there is question of... But they want to keep them as dogs, and at the same time, they want to unite. Therefore it is unsuccessful. Is it not? Is it not unsuccessful?

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, why not? These people are understanding. These all Kṛṣṇa conscious students, they are understanding. Otherwise...

Dr. Patel: These type of students were eternally there with all the religious teaching, past and present. But unfortunately...

Prabhupāda: So those who were there, they understood. They...

Dr. Patel: Unfortunate for the world it is not going to do that.

Prabhupāda: No, there was no preaching. That's it. Now the preaching is going on. They are understanding. Nobody preached this. If you... Just like a big building. If the foundation is wrong, then it will not stay.

Dr. Patel: This Bhagavad-gītā has got everything, all aspects of life.

Prabhupāda: No, no. This is the beginning of teaching, that "You are not this body." If you remain in the false understanding that "I am this body," "I am Indian," "I am Englishman," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," there is no spiritual education. Mohita. That is called mohita. Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair, mohitaṁ nābhijānāti. He remains in ignorance. (aside:) (Hindi) Jaya.

Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:

Harikeśa: They made those nice buildings in Delhi, too.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes, and everything good. Simply heart was not very good.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Heart.

Prabhupāda: "Only for Englishmen," "Only for Englishmen." Still that policy is going on here. That is not good. When one takes shelter of you, you must give him proper protection. That liberality is not there.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They would make the people dependent upon them and then exploit them, yes?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the fault. Exploitation was their policy. Whole European, the France, Holland—go some other country and exploit. They were doing the same thing in America also. Therefore America rebelled. Washington was Englishman. Still, he rebelled. He separated. Independent. A small country and bring money from the whole world—this is their bad policy.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's actually amazing how they colonized.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It was actually amazing to think how they colonized almost...

Prabhupāda: They were obliged to do that. In the country there is no food, no shelter, nothing. Therefore Hitler's determination was, "I shall make this shopkeeper nation again fishers." What is called? Fishermen. "I shall ruin their empire." So he did it. But he also became ruined. He did it. He ruined the Englishmen, but he also became ruined, finished, Germany finished. But Germany will be able to rise again. Englishmen will not be able to.

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Indian man (1): They know the knowledge but they don't act according to that.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are not happy. Otherwise one who knows "I am Brahman," brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā—he will be happy always. That has become fashion. "Table chair brahma-jñāna," sitting on the table-chair, smoking and talking of Brahman. "Armchair brahma-jñāna." Although Kṛṣṇa is giving information, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu... mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param (BG 18.54), so they do not make further progress, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param, to achieve that platform of bhakti. Therefore it is as good as no knowledge. These will be the symptoms of brahma-jñāna, na śocati na kāṅ..., samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. If they have got brahma-jñāna, then why they should distinguish? Just like in our country, Mahatma Gandhi, so he is designated as mahātmā, but why he was against the Englishmen, to drive them away? That is not brahma-jñāna. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. They are as good. As these white people, they do not give any chance to the other people, so similarly, Mahatma Gandhi also, he wanted that "These white people should go away." So what is the distinction? The same knowledge. "You want me ... to drive me away; I want to drive you away." So what is the distinction between you and me? The one dog is barking at another dog; another dog is barking, another dog. That's all. Where is knowledge?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's a very interesting view.

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Devotee (2): That is a good point.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...given by God. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanam. You have no intelligence even, so that is given by God. (Hindi) Let them become devotees. Why these old men, they are not coming? They are still after money? Amara ajñaya guru hana tara ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128), Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. So you have come to this country. Do something good for these Africans. Let them become devotee. Where is that attempt? The white men, they also came to exploit them, and you have also come to exploit them. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "No-para upakara." Upakara kara. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... They are not so advanced; make them advanced. That is real cooperation. (Hindi) (break) Just like every one of them is attached to remain in Africa, continuing to... But they are being forcefully driven away: "Go away." Attachment must be there. The Englishmen, they have got attachment, but they were forcefully driven away. Similarly, this conditioned soul, he has got attachment. And śāstra and śāstra... These people were driven away by śāstra,, by weapon, knife. That is śāstra. And śāstra is the same thing, but it is books. Therefore it is called śāstra. The original word is coming from śās. Sas means ruling, śās-dhātu. Śāstra, śāstra, śāsana, śisya. Śisya. Śisya means voluntarily accepting ruling. That is called śisya. The word is the same, śās. From śās, śisya. From śās, śāstra. From śās, śāstra. From śās, śāsana. These are. So sometimes by force, sometimes by voluntarily... So just like guru-śisya. The guru, he gives enlightenment, and śisya voluntarily accepts. That is guru-śisya. Similarly śāstra means weapon: "If you don't follow, then I shall cut your throat." Similarly śāstra. So śāstra says that "Now you must leave your family life." That is called vānaprastha. So that is not being carried out, although the śāstra injunction is there. Brahmacari, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. So brahmacārī is the beginning of life, how to become controlled life.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: So where is your independence? What is the answer? At any moment you have to die. Even Munshibhai Raman or Mussolini or big, big, so..., Napoleon.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Franco. There was that Franco.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone. He was given horse urine to drink, Napoleon. Such a great hero, but he had to drink horse urine. This Englishman after Battle of, what is that? Waterloo. When he was arrested, when he was asking water, he was given horse urine. Because everyone was very, very angry. Napoleon became just like Hiranyakasipu. They were threatening their children: "Oh, he, Bona, is coming. Sleep. Sleep. Sleep." He became so much.... He was known as Bona. You do not know all these things?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Whole Europe became threatened, Napoleon. And there must be some reaction. And when he was under custody he was treated like an.... So where is independence? He had to drink horse urine as reaction of his atrocities. Hitler committed suicide and finished himself. Mussolini was forced to be killed. Gandhi was killed. And they are fighting for independence. You know this Sydney? Sydney? You know why the city is known as Sydney?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Jayapatākā: They are saying that there, there are so many roads named after him. They are saying.

Prabhupāda: How propaganda, lies.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We never even heard of him.

Prabhupāda: I have seen one road, street, "Gandhi Street," Mexico, and there is no other. Mexico, when there was trouble with the Americans, they adopted Gandhi's noncooperation movement. Therefore they regarded Gandhi. There is Gandhi's statue and Gandhi's name, one. Who had been Mexico, any of you? That I have seen. And I never seen Vivekananda Road, never. Or India, oh, so many, this, that. No Caitanya Mahāprabhu Road. Vivekananda Road. Propaganda. The other day I saw some stamp, postage, "Vivekananda." You have seen it? But never they will publish Kṛṣṇa or Caitanya Mahāprabhu. "Kṛṣṇa is fictitious." What is called? Mythology. "Kṛṣṇa is mythology." (Bengali) The government saw, especially the police department, and they became so popular. Within two, three years, thousands and thousands of men, not only Indian. Kichu āchen. All Europeans, American, Englishmen, they are following Rathayātrā. Jaya jagannātha, jaya hare kṛṣṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In San Francisco they made it a holiday.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) "Rival of Nelson Column..." (Bengali) (break) (Bengali) "It is hell." Actually that is. Always wet. No road you'll find it is dry. Always damp. Is it not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, hellish.

Morning Walk -- February 27, 1976, Mayapura:

Devotee (2): I don't know him... (laughter)

Prabhupāda: No, no...

Devotee (2): I've heard of him.

Prabhupāda: Bengali culture was very much adored. Surendranath Bannerjee started the political movement, and he was so well known. Even in Parliament, the Englishmen, English M.P.'s, he... They were speaking of Surendranath. They used to say "Surrendered not." "Here is a person who is not 'Surrender not.' He'll never surrender. 'Surrender not.' " Actually, the British Empire was startled by the agitation of Surendranath Bannerjee. The Congress was started by Surendranath Bannerjee, this one Congress. Two Bengali and one Englishman started this Congress sometimes in 1887, 1867, like that. So in our childhood we used to see that Surendranath Bannerjee was being elected president of Congress almost every year. And Gandhi came into prominence when Surendranath Bannerjee surrendered. Formerly he was not surrendering. But the government gave him the first ministership, that "You become minister." So he became a government man. Then Gandhi came in prominence. Surendranath Bannerjee was the first minister in India. (break) ...in our childhood, if he would speak, thousands, thousands men will gather in Calcutta. (break) ...Surendranath Bannerjee Road.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: ...means ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. The more we get material possession, our false egotism increases. "I have got this. I have got this. Who is more powerful than me?" Āḍhyo 'bhijanavān asmi ko 'nyo 'sti sadṛśo mayā. These are described in the Sixteenth Chapter. What is the meaning of this ahaṅkāra? Because vimūḍhātmā, that "I have got this motorcar. I have got this property," but within a second it can be finished. There is another, superior law. That he forgets. He sees actually, but he forgets. That is called vimūḍhātmā. He is seeing, everyone. Of course, our time and nature's time, little different. So many Hitlers, so many Napoleons, so many Gandhis, so many Jawaharlal came and went. But they do not see. Paśyann api na paśyati. They are seeing actually; still they do not see. Blind. In India the Mohammedans came. They ruled over. Where is the Moghul? The Englishmen came. Where they are? Everything gone. Paśyann api na paśyati. This is called vimūḍhātmā. That is going on. The material civilization means ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. By false egotism they are bewildered and rascals. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has translated this, that jaḍā-bidyā jato, māyāra vaibhava: "All this material advancement of civilization is the paraphernalia of māyā." Because you cannot enjoy it, but you are thinking, "I possess so much. I possess so much." You'll not be allowed to enjoy, but still.... Therefore all these material possessions are the paraphernalia of māyā. So what is the wrong there? Now, wrong is this, jaḍā-bidyā jato, māyāra vaibhava, tomāra bhajane bādhā. They are hindrances for advancement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the aim of human life. That, you forget that. So tomāra bhajane bādhā, anitya saṁsāre, moha janamiyā. The result is that he becomes more attached to this temporary world and remains the rascal. Because without being rascal, nobody comes in this material world to enjoy. As soon as anyone has come to this material world, he's a rascal. Kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare, nikaṭa-stha māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare (Prema-vivarta).

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1976, Melbourne:

Guru-kṛpā: The rascals, they try to blame everything on Kṛṣṇa by saying, "Why is Kṛṣṇa letting people starve?"

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is giving them sufficient. They are mismanaging. Still, Kṛṣṇa is still bad. Envious. Kṛṣṇa created this earth. Did He say, "This is for the Australians. This is for the Americans"? Did He say? Why you are keeping so much land as "Australia"? That is also Kṛṣṇa's fault? Australia was never given to the Englishmen. They came and they, by force they took it. So similarly America, the land was there.

Devotee (3): They call this colonization, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Whatever you may call, there are thieves, rogues and thieves. That's all.

Devotee (3): Exploiting.

Guru-kṛpā: Now they're dividing up the booty, fighting over it.

Prabhupāda: That story, that some thieves stolen. Now, when they are dividing, they say, "Please honestly, religious divide." The things are stolen, and now it is to be divided religiously. The foundation of the thing is stealing, and they are dividing in.... Now they are making laws, morality.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: First of all you try to understand yourself. Then talk of God. If you do not understand yourself, how you'll understand God? That is a big thing. Try to understand the small thing, that you are not this body. Talk on this subject matter, that as.... When you understand that "I, the proprietor of the body, I am different from this body," then you will understand God also, very easily. Because you are the proprietor of this body and you are given the controlling power of the body by thinking, feeling, willing, by acting.... You have got this body. You are sitting here. You can say, "Now I am going away." The body is under your control. You can do that. Similarly, when you understand this fully, then you'll understand that in this huge, gigantic body, material cosmic manifestation, there is a controller, easily. But if you do not understand yourself, how you can understand God? God is not different in quality than from you. God means like you in huge, unlimited quantity. As you have got little intelligence—you can create a wonderful thing, 747 airplane flying in the air—so God has got unlimited brain. Millions and trillions of universes are floating in the air. The process is the same. You are tiny. You are very much proud that "I am so advanced that I have manufactured 747." And just why not compare the intelligence of God? Such a huge lump of matter, the sun, is floating also there. That is the difference between you and God. You have got brain, He has got brain, but your the brain is very tiny, little, and his brain very big. That is difference between God and you. So if you understand yourself, sample of God, then you understand the Supreme God. But first of all you do not understand yourself. I am misidentifying, "I am this body." And that is doing.... The cats and dogs, they are doing that. Then where is your human intelligence? Then how you can understand God if you have no human intelligence? These books are meant for the human being. If I give to the dogs that "Read this book; you'll understand God," who cares for it? All these school, college, institution, university, they are meant for human being, not for the cats and dogs. So if we do not take advantage of this human form of life and try to understand ourself and God, then we are simply cats and dogs. That is going on. We are fighting like cats and dogs. And before the Englishman came in Australia, Australia was property of somebody else. And now you have captured Australia, you are barking, "Why you have come, Indian, here?" What is this civilization? Hm? You have taken illegally from others, and now you have become proprietor. You are barking like dog, "Why you have come here?" What is this civilization? The civilization is.... All land belongs to God. We are sons of God.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Johannesburg. From the downtown, the Indian quarters about ten miles or fifteen miles away. Indian.... African, black quarters, they are not allowed even to enter the city. They require a pass. If any black man enters the city without that passport, he will immediately be taken to police. The bus for the black man is different from the white man. I think Indians also they have got separate bus. But the bus in which the white men travel, the Indians and the black men are not allowed. Gandhi tried to adjust this injustice, but he failed. Then with determination he went to India, that "I must drive away the Englishmen." These South African white men, mostly they are Englishmen and Dutchmen. Originally, they were Englishmen and Dutchmen.

Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, the strange thing is that the fiercest racists in South Africa are the Boers, the Afrikaners...

Prabhupāda: That is Englishmen, Dutchmen, Dutchmen.

Dr. Wolfe: ...who were put down by the British before, and now they are the worst oppressors themselves.

Prabhupāda: These Dutchmen, Englishmen and Frenchmen were the pioneers of colonization. Spaniards also, Spanish. In America mostly the Englishmen came?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes. English and French.

Prabhupāda: French.

Hṛdayānanda: Mostly English.

Prabhupāda: The Germans were not for colonization.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: Not so many colonies like the others.

Dr. Wolfe: Hm, they had quite a few, quite a few.

Prabhupāda: The Englishmen they have lost their colonies, all.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes. Even now England they can no longer control.

Prabhupāda: Hm? (laughs)

Hṛdayānanda: They can no longer control England. They are having fights between the labor and management. They cannot control it.

Prabhupāda: Why? What is the difficulty?

Hari-śauri: Communists.

Hṛdayānanda: No, between the laborers and the management. They are having great, always strikes, and the British industry is becoming crippled.

Prabhupāda: And there is another problem, Irish problem. The Irish men, they are dropping bombs in London, in daytime. Creating always disturbance.

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The troubles that India is going through today, they were foreseeing over five thousand years ago, that the Muslims would invade, the Turks?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The Englishman would invade. That is also...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The Greeks.

Prabhupāda: In the Twelfth Canto.

Devotee (1): I think Candragupta's name is also.... The last emperor of India. (break) ...fighting between the demons and the demigods, the demons brought mountain and it was in fire, the jungle, and it was split by dynamite, and all the stones fell down on the enemies. Where is that war plan? Bring the mountain on the head of the enemies and split it by dynamite, and it will.... (break) This information is there, that dynamite was there, and it was used for breaking mountain. Fighting was taking place. Not in this planet, upper planet.

Hari-śauri: This is in connection with the churning of the ocean?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Hari-śauri: They used to call that the "white man's burden."

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. So these English people, they were very expert in making propaganda. They killed Hitler by propaganda. I don't think Hitler was so bad man. What do you think? You are Englishman. (laughter)

Hari-śauri: It's getting.... (laughs) Just from hearing you speak in the last few months I can understand that the whole history that I was ever presented in school is completely warped around to the way that the English saw it, especially the last two centuries, when the British empire was on the move. It's completely...

Prabhupāda: But actually, the war was between Germany and England. Others joined, some interest or something. Actually, the war was to be fought between England and Germany.

Jagadīśa: There's one devotee who joined in Toronto, Frenchman, and he was in France at the time of the war. He's an older man. And he told me also.... His father was French, but he was sympathetic to the Nazis, and that it was actually Maxmillian or one of the Frenchmen who sided with the British, but the majority of the French people didn't mind the German occupation. It was due to one of the political factions siding with the British that there was a French underground and...

Prabhupāda: France, they are always enemy of Englishmen. There is is old history-Hundred Years' War, Seven Years' War. Napoleon also wanted to cut down the Britishers. France is dead enemy of England, and there is always competition.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: German people still hate England. They do not like to speak in English; that I have seen. In the bank they know English, but they won't speak it. English everyone knows. The Kaiser was against. They said that Kaiser is the grandson of Queen Victoria, from daughter's side. And King George from the son's side—Edward's seventh son. They were cousin brothers. So this Kaiser, when he was young boy, went to paternal uncle's house, when he was a young boy. So there was some playing, cut with a knife. So royal family, so many doctors came. So the boy was saying, "Why you are trying to cure it? Let the English blood go away." So from the childhood he was so inimical, that "I have got some English blood in my body, my mother is English, father German, so let the English blood go away." I do not know if that is fact, I heard it. (laughs) Maybe. It is joking also and serious. In our childhood in school, a book was there, "England's Work in India." One Mr. M. Ghosh, he wrote this book just to flatter the Englishmen. This, that "white man's burden." And it was the impression in those days: just to become like Englishmen, that is civilization. The Parsees in Bombay, they were the first-class flatterer, imitation, how to become like English lords, barons. This Tata factory was started by such ambition. They wanted to be English baron, lord, industrialist. In Calcutta also. Where our temple is, that is called saheb quarter. In our childhood we used to say saheb quarter. Saheb quarter means European neighborhood. They say our temple is saheb mandira in Māyāpur. And in Vṛndāvana aṇgrejī mandira. The same impression. To become saheb, that was great prestigious. Yes.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Lobster, it is simply pus. They eat. I've seen it. From whiteness it has become yellow. Puslike. They eat it, what is called that soup? Lobster soup?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Clam chowder? So many things.

Prabhupāda: But they like very much that lobster soup. In the plane, one Englishman was doing "What is this? I asked after lobster soup."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In England? Oysters?

Prabhupāda: No, lobsters.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: With the big pinchers.

Hari-śauri: They get the lobsters sometimes alive, and they throw them in boiling water, and they can hear them screaming. But now they're speculating whether it's actually the lobsters screaming because it's being boiled alive or whether it's just air that's coming out from its body and making a squeaking noise.

Prabhupāda: No, that is, apart from that, they import lobster from India, Cochin. They are exporting lobster alive. I have seen. The same ship, they load it with lobster fat, and black creepers, and cashews, they exported. The big, big business firms are exporting. So these lobster, although they are kept in ice and so on, so on, they become decomposed. I've seen in the port, that Commonwealth Pier. There is store of lobster, and the lobster has become yellow and almost melted by decomposing. They are selling that.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore they know how to make money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They take up your idea of book distribution and they make all the money from it. (laughing)

Prabhupāda: Everything can be utilized for Kṛṣṇa. Prāṇair arthair dhiyā vacaḥ. (break)

Rāmeśvara: Sky is very clear.

Prabhupāda: Yes, good morning. When the sky is clear the Englishmen call "good morning." This is the origin of "good morning." Because unfortunately, in their country the sky is never clear. If by chance some day it is clear, they say "Oh, it is a good morning." That is the origin of that. One Englishman told me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But now they always greet each other by saying "Good morning, sir."

Prabhupāda: No, it has become now a phrase, but originally the word originated when the morning was good, because that is a great fortune for them. (laughter) Yes, in London I was three months; always gloomy, damp, cloudy. Therefore I, television said, they asked, "What is your idea of hell?" and "This is hell, London. London is hell." He stopped. He did not ask anything more. This is hell. Simply by big, big buildings, you are keeping as heaven, but it is the hell.

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Keep our standard. Then everyone will give assistance.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: We got many times, many visitors here. One time that church come here to see how things are. Chinese people came, Englishmen. One of the lady, not very far from here, she came one morning, said "My brother is in the hospital, and he is very sick. I know you are a pious people. Can you pray for him?" And "You pray the Lord. You come here. Lord is here." And...

Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Not very far from here. Said, "We hear the noise in the morning, and we have got these feelings that these are very good thing."

Jayatīrtha: Oh, this was an English person who came.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: English, yes. She is feeling in the heart.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: I... We can. By your grace, Kṛṣṇa is here, and we have no intention to come from there. I had intention that let the children go back home. And we fight, all this stuff. I say, "All right, we must start to fully educate him." Full education is that he become advanced in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Mike Robinson: No, I won't.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So similarly all these rascals, they are simply washing the coat and shirt. They have no information that what is there within the coat and shirt. They have no information. Ask anybody. All rascals will say, "Yes, I am Englishman, I am this coat," that's all. "I am thinking like an Englishman." That is shirt. And what you are, he cannot say. You are thinking, that is your mind. You are having this body, that is your body, but what you are? Who is thinking over this? Nobody.

Mike Robinson: So by understanding...

Prabhupāda: Misunderstanding. The whole civilization, the modern civilization, is going on misunderstanding. Dehātma-buddhiḥ —just like cats and dogs. Suppose if you become very proud, "I am Englishman. Why you have come here?" As the dogs bark, "Row! Row! Why you have come?" So where is the difference? What is the difference? He's thinking "I am dog," you are thinking "Englishman," I am thinking "Indian." There is no difference. So if we keep people in darkness of dog's mentality, and declare we are advanced in civilization, most misguiding.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So ritualistic ceremonies, Vedic ritualistic ceremonies. Everywhere there are some ritualistic ceremony. So when you go above this... Just like Kṛṣṇa says in another place, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo. By performing the Vedic ritualistic ceremony, the ultimate goal is to understand Kṛṣṇa. So if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you may not perform this ritualistic ceremony. Because you have come to the objective. Not before that. That is sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Vedic ritualistic ceremony is that if you perform this yajña, then you go to the heavenly planet and there you'll get so long life, ten thousands of years, you get nice woman, and so on, so on. People are after that, karma-kāṇḍa. So this karma-kāṇḍa is required so long one is unaware of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When one understands this karma-kāṇḍa elevation is not the aim of our life, our real aim of life how to go back home, back to Godhead, then these things are not required. Just like we have no ritualistic ceremony, we have simply devotional service. We have no ritualistic ceremony. There are so many things ritualistic. And we are performing only this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, mahā-mantra. Therefore the smārta brāhmaṇas, they misunderstand. They do not admit that they have become elevated. The Jagannātha temple does not allow. But when one becomes a pure Vaiṣṇava, then tepus tapas te juhuvuḥ sasnur āryā (SB 3.33.7). He has performed all the ritualistic devotion. There are many statements in the śāstras, that when you come to the devotional platform, you haven't go to perform these ritualistic ceremonies. Because the end of ritualistic ceremony, you have come to the point. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Dharmaḥ projjhita kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). Kaitava means cheating. Cheating type of dharma is rejected here. This karma-kāṇḍa, by performing some ritualistic ceremony you may go to a heavenly planet, but what benefit you will have? That one has to understand. You can enjoy there materialistic, highest type of materialistic civilization means eating, sleeping, mating. These things you can get, but you have to come back again. Kṣine punye martya-lokaṁ viśanti (BG 9.21). So what benefit there is? No benefit. Just like in British period, some Englishman was made viceroy of India. Then after five years they sent to London, again with his bag, marketing in the street. This has been seen practically. Lord such-and-such, he's traveling in a third-class compartment with a bag for marketing. But so long he was viceroy, oh, so much honor, so much prestige. So where is that prestige now? These ritualistic ceremonies are like that. For more years you become viceroy, and then again fall down. That is your Nixon. What is the position of Nixon now? He is ordinary man. That's all.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. Pun-nārakāt trāyate iti putra.(?) Victoria died in 1903. There was great function, and this building started in 1903, and it was finished in 1922.

Jayapatākā: After her death.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Lord Kurgeon's plan... Lord Kurgeon wanted that let there be asking of India from the family of Victoria. He gave this plan. But this Parliament did not want that Englishman shall make India home. Then his interest will be in India. Just like America. Englishmen, as they made America their home, they declared independence. Australia. As soon as you make a home, then the more interest will be in India. Washington was Englishman. Was he not? Washington.

Jayapatākā: Yes. Well, everyone came from England.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not from England. But ordinary... So Englishman, why he declared war against the English?

Jayapatākā: Their interest was in America more than England.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Naturally. So as soon as you make home, your interest will be at home. So that was their policy. In those days no Englishman was allowed to purchase property in India. All his income, money, should go to England. So the Mohammedan Moguls, they made their home in India. Therefore they stayed for eight hundred years. They would not have gone. Indians did not like to finish the Mohammedan kingdom. No, never. It is the Englishmen. They penetrated and finished them, not the Indians. Indians were not against the Mohammedans. They are going on. Little bit discrepancies were there, especially during the time of Auranzeb. He was bigot Mohammedan. He hated the Hindus. Not hated, but he was a, was is called, bigot, Mohammedan? He did not hate. That was not his qualification. Auranzeb gave many contributions to the Vṛndāvana temples. Yes. And Auranzeb's grandfather, Jahangir, he gave so many temples to many brāhmaṇas. There is one village just opposite Vṛndāvana, Keśīghāṭa, Jahangipura. This village was given to a brāhmaṇa. From the income he was maintaining a temple. And Auranzeb... You know Sringarpat Goswami?

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Jayapatākā: Better they take separate.

Prabhupāda: So Indians did not like that Mohammedans may go away. Rather, when Shri Raj Birla (?) was arrested by flight, the Bengali zamindars, they protested. Rani Bhavani, she protested. Although it is alleged that Shri Raj Birla (?) kidnapped her daughter. But if Shri Raj Birla kidnapped her daughter, how he (she) supported Shri Raj Birla? There are so many falsehoods. On the whole, the Indians never planned to drive away the Mohammedans. They never. That's a fact. They were happy because there was no exploitation. All these Mohammedans, they made their home in India, so whatever lavishly they were spending, that was coming to the Indians. In Taliganj (?) there is a man. Now they are aristocratic family. He was servant of the nawab, and he stolen one shoes, one feet, which was bedecked with jewels. So by selling that jewel he became a rich man. So although they were using jewelled shoe, but it was in India. They were satisfied that "I am nawab. I am using jeweled shoes." But the jewelled shoes was in India and these Englishmen, they have taken away all the jewels even from the walls and keeping them in their homes, all gold, jewels, everything.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: When the Englishmen were ruling over this country and Gandhi had to do so much labor, his life sacrificed, some way or other they were gone. Now the same Englishman is working here as book distributor. (laughs) Who was our ruler. So whose achievement is better? Gandhi's or mine?

Gargamuni: Yours.

Prabhupāda: And one Englishman is giving me massage. This rascal criticizing. But they have come to me for money? They are poor or they are illiterate fools? They have come to me for money or some material gain? No. Unless they are convinced about the spiritual gain, why they should give me such service? They have no eyes to see.

Gargamuni: No, because in India, many Indians, when they approach a guru, they want something. But we didn't have to approach you for anything.

Prabhupāda: That is the speciality. The guru... One should go to guru to serve him as menial servant. That is acceptance of guru. That is required. Nīcavat. Nīca, nīca means menial. Just like menial servant, he does everything. Similarly, to live with guru means to serve him as a menial servant. That is Vedic injunction. Nīcavat. You should not be puffed up, that "I am coming from such royal family, I am coming from such rich family." And that tendency is trained up from the childhood. A child does not know. Just like Pradyumna's son. You can engage him in any menial service. He does not discriminate. He's trained up. So this is gurukula. Very word is used, nīcavat. He gives service to the guru just like a menial servant. And this training being given from the childhood, he does not know what is low or what is high. His spiritual master asks to do something... Even Kṛṣṇa went to the forest to collect some dry wood. Vasudeva's son, in royal family, but he had to go. And all of a sudden there was storm and, what is called?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Lightning.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Maṇihāra: Now England is finished. Everybody is completely unhappy. Nobody is happy in England. The rich men, once they were happy, now they are having their money taken away by the government. They are taxing, taxing, taxing, all the time. And the poor people, they have nothing anyway. Nobody has anything to talk about. Nothing to be proud of in England. Everybody is leaving. Every day in the newspaper you read such-and-such has happened.

Prabhupāda: You are Englishman?

Maṇihāra: Yes.

Prabhā Viṣṇu: It's a sinful reaction.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They expanded their empire. Where is that empire now? The expansion of empire began during Victoria's time. Victoria's time.

Hari-śauri: Even before that, though, because they were going out in the ships and... America and all.

Prabhupāda: During the first Elizabeth's time. That was the beginning.

Hari-śauri: Queen Elizabeth the First.

Maṇihāra: They went to America at that time. Pilgrim.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: There is agitation to drive away the Indians.

Maṇihāra: Now they are trying to drive away. Because they know they have money. They are taking over.

Prabhupāda: Money and intelligence also. They can organize the English very nicely. And they're not extravagant. European and American, as soon as they get money they spend it. And Indians know how to save something. I saw in London almost all Indians have got their own house. Maybe small house, it doesn't matter. But they have got their own quarters. Every Indian. And they're living very comfortably. Englishmen, local men, renting.

Maṇihāra: Big, big blocks.

Prabhupāda: And many Indians, they have come from Africa.

Maṇihāra: Kenya.

Prabhā Viṣṇu: Uganda, especially.

Prabhupāda: Uganda. They got English citizenship. Now they cannot refuse them legally.

Maṇihāra: There's one group, the National Front group, they are trying to stop the citizenship. Because the government they are saying, "Yes, we will make you citizens if you come here, get business." And they are fighting against this.

Prabhupāda: They are refusing citizenship to the children. Children born of Indians in England, naturally they should be citizens. But now they're refused.

Garden Conversation -- September 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...with some Indian wife they were called Eurasian, and Englishman marrying Indian wife they were called Anglo-Indian. There was a big Anglo-Indian community and they were given good facilities by the Britishers for government jobs, railways. In railway, almost cent percent. The driver, the guard, the ticket inspector, all, means, semi-important jobs, they were all given to these Anglo-Indians. Because they were not very much educated. And officers, they were all Britishers. Officers, secretaries. And Indians were clerks. Indians, they were accepted as clerks only. No officers. In military, Indian Sikhs and Gurkha, especially Sikhs, they were very valiant. Still they are valiant. They were given the post of captain. Not general. General all Englishmen.

Caraṇāravindam: I have seen many Sikh soldiers. They're very big. They're very noble looking soldiers.

Prabhupāda: They're very, martial race. Practically, the Britishers expanded their empire with these Sikh soldiers and Gurkha soldiers.

Hari-śauri: The Gurkha, they're very...

Caraṇāravindam: And Nepalese soldiers.

Prabhupāda: Nepalese. They are very brave.

Hari-śauri: Yes, they're very renowned.

Prabhupāda: Sikhs are very brave. They're martial. And another martial race, Jats. They are kṣatriyas. Oh, they can fight... When Britishers possessed India they organized this military with Sikhs especially, Jats, and Gurkhas. And they expanded their empire, Burma, Ceylon, Africa, all these British Empire possessions. And not only that, they fought two big world wars with these Sikhs soldiers. They conquered over this Mesopotamia, Middle East.

Room Conversation -- September 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, now you cannot say Indians. (laughs) Now we cannot say only Indians worship Kṛṣṇa. Whole world. That is God. They are not fools and rascals. They are educated, they are civilized. Why they accept Kṛṣṇa as God? Yesterday I was telling who? I think Caraṇam?

Hari-śauri: Caraṇāravindam.

Prabhupāda: Caraṇāravindam. That the Englishmen were ruling over us. Now here is English boy, he's giving me massage and fanning me. What is the reason? Unless he feels something obligation, that "He has given us Kṛṣṇa," what business he has got? Not for him, for all of you, to give so valuable free service, unless there is this sense. What do you think? You have no obligation. You are European, American. I am Indian. It is through this via media Kṛṣṇa. This is practical. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is God. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. Because they have got sense that "We have got God," therefore they are feeling so much obliged. Kṛṣṇa is God, there is no doubt about it. It is not yet ready?

Hari-śauri: They're making a plate now.

Prabhupāda: Viśvambhara is there?

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Indian man (4): My first identification is my own body.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is ajñāna. So long you are identifying with the body, you are no better than the animal. So we are doing that. We are fighting. "I am Indian. You are Englishman. You are this. You are that. You are..." Simply we are fighting, like cats and dogs, they fight. So that is ajñāna. How you can be prasannātmā? So when one becomes actually situated in spiritual life, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). That is the... In this way when you make further progress, when you actually understand that you are eternal servant of God, then you surrender. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). This situation takes many, many births to cultivate. And when he actually understands, jñānavān—not fools, rascals—then māṁ prapadyate, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). That mahātmā is very rare to be found. So bhakti is not so easy. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. It is not so easy. It takes many, many births to come to the understanding that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ bhajanty ananya manasaḥ (BG 9.13). This is mahātmā.

Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Jagadīśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, accounts are meant for kāyasthas, śūdras. (Indian man laughs) Vaiśyas are meant for producing grain and protecting cows. Yes. According... One Englishman used to say, "This clerical job means educated laborer, educated śūdra." (laughs) Śūdra... Actually the kāyasthas are counted amongst the śūdras. You know that?

Bhagatji: In Bengal kāyasthas is the...

Prabhupāda: No, no, Bengal. Mean in U.P.

Bhagatji: In U.P. kāyasthas are śūdras.

Prabhupāda: And originally they are śūdras. The history of Bengali kāyasthas... They went with the brāhmaṇas as servant. That is the history. And in Bengal the system is... (Bengali saying and Hindi explanation) Actually it is... If some low class man, he becomes rich, then he's taken into the kāyastha community. Anyone who cannot stick to the principle of caste system, he becomes a kāyastha.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Devotee (2): From London.

Prabhupāda: Oh. You are Englishman?

Devotee (2): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Stay here. We want some Englishmen. (laughter) No. We want Englishmen, Australian, Canadian, because they have no visa problem.

Dr. Patel: American will have no visa problem very soon.

Guru dāsa: Why?

Dr. Patel: There is no question why. We'll understand it.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that's all right. So the visa problem is a great problem for us because in India for conducting our movement, we have to import the white men. Our Indians, they are not joining. So that is a great problem for me. They have to come, and they have to go again. And each time, coming and going, ten thousand rupees. And that is happening at least for hundred cases every year. Ten thousand, hundred times. Just imagine. This is my economic problem. Therefore I'm asking, "If you are Englishman, please stay." Because here, in India, they will see that "The white man dancing, let us see." They will never join. They are busy with their own affairs. They will advise, "Do this, do that," but they will never come. This is my position. Practical. Therefore I'm begging the Englishmen, the Canadians, the Australians, "Please come and stay." Because huge establishment, who will manage? I am managing with them, but there is economic question. For each person I have to spend ten thousand rupees at least and such hundred case... This is the position. The Indians are not interested. They are not interested.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then let them come first of all. (laughter) There is no "if." There is sufficient place. Come. But nobody's coming. They want to see, "Let these white men come and we see." That's all. "We see the fun." This is going on. They are coming. They are disgusted. But we are not disgusted. That is the difficulty. Therefore I was speaking to this boy, "You are Englishman, you have come." It's a problem now in Māyāpur, here. And the government is after them as soon as three months pass. "Get out, get out, get out, get out." Then how shall I conduct my business? A big, big establishment. This is another problem. But Kṛṣṇa is doing His own business. But practically seeing. This is India's business. Bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). Manuṣya-janma, not the cats and dogs, but those who have taken the human form. It is their business. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41), janma sārthaka-First of all, make your life successful by understanding the philosophy. Then, janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra, preach this philosophy all over the world. That is para-upakāra. So actually that is being done. They understand, they are understanding this philosophy. There is struggle now in foreign countries. There is opposition now. Who will explain what is the opposition?

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (2): Lord Jesus Christ, the son of God, he's a person. His father must be person.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is common sense. If son of God, if the son has form, how the father hasn't got form? What do you say? I'm asking you. This English boy. How the father can be formless? Christ says that he's the son of God. Is it not?

Englishman: He said he was, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But he's a person. So how the father is imperson? What kind of father?

Dr. Patel: Sir, instead of calling person, we say he's an individual. Person means this body.

Prabhupāda: Person is individual.

Dr. Patel: Individual. So God is an individual then?

Prabhupāda: No, person. God is a person. Individual means person. Individual person.

Dr. Patel: Everything person is body.

Prabhupāda: Body or no body, that is separate thing. But when you say individual, he is a person. And it is explained also in the Bhagavad... Kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām (BG 12.5). Those who are inclined to the impersonal feature... God has got that impersonal feature. So they have to undergo more troubles to understand Him. And after going through troublesome business, bahūnāṁ janmanām, many, many births, then he understands, "Oh, vāsudevaḥ sarvam, here is the person." Everywhere this disease is very prominent, that God is impersonal. Perhaps this is the only movement in the world that's preaching, "No, God is person."

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now how they cannot fight? They are swines and dogs. How they will remain peaceful? It is not possible. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Unless they are spiritually elevated they cannot be peaceful. It is impossible. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Simply by stamping.

Dr. Patel: And there is another class of...

Prabhupāda: Gandhi became mahātmā, but his mission was, "Get out, Englishmen, get out." Where is samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu? He declared himself mahātmā, but his business was how to drive away the Englishmen.

Dr. Patel: Sir, he, I mean, I'm sorry to interrupt you. He never hated Englishmen. It's their method he wanted to drive out.

Prabhupāda: I do not hate you, but I beat you with shoes. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: No, you don't beat me with shoes. He never beat them the shoes. He said, "Well we don't like you." If I say, "Do this," and it is not good, I mean, I'm not wrong in that way I suppose. I'm open to correction.

Prabhupāda: No, no. English civilization is not good. What was the wrong? I say repeatedly again and again, he ruined the Manchester cloth business, he developed Ahmedabad cloth. The result is we poor men, we were paying one rupee six annas per pair, now we are paying thirty rupees. Money is going... Instead of going to the pocket of the Englishmen it is going to the pocket of Mahadevia. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (1): If it is told by (indistinct) who accept it.

Prabhupāda: No, why these boys are attracted ? They have not come here to see your industry for materialism. They have come here for spiritual. They have not come to see your cycle and sewing machine. Actually, they have come, Vṛndāvana, Māyāpur. And they are not poverty stricken. We go to Europe being poverty stricken. That Lady Wellington, he (she) challenged one of my Godbrothers, Bhakti Tīrtha Mahārāja, that "You Indian people..." She was very proud, Lady Wellington. Wellington was Iceland. She said that "You Indian people..." Of course, it was friendly talk. "You come to our country, we give you some stamp, degree, and you earn your livelihood in India. What you have come here to teach?" This was the challenge. Actually, that was happening. We were sending our men to England to become bar-at-law, to become MS, CP, to become this and that, and they became here big men. So why you people come here to teach us? This was the challenge. In those days a little favor of Englishman was considered a great boon. In Bengal there is a word, saheb śubha. Saheb means European, especially Englishman, and śubha means "auspicious." So if anyone can make friendship with a European, then his life is successful. And that was happening. The Englishmen were opening business houses. If somebody became connected, he gets good business. He becomes a rich man. There is a family in Calcutta, Saubhaga (?) Raj family. So the head of that family, Navinchandra Dev, he was a minor clerk of Lord Clive's. So when Lord Clyde was in Delhi, he was young man, he was sitting on that peacock throne and slept. Young man. So Lord Clyde saw, "Oh, what is this young man?" So the Englishman, then he came to Calcutta. So "You are fortunate, all right I'll make you a king." Britishers they were giving title, king. So he was given the title Raja. So the whole family is Saubhaga (?) Raj family still. This was the Raj. He was a clerk. Why people will not say saheb śubha? He became favorite to Lord Clive, and his whole family became Raj family. Still that family is there, those who are known to Calcutta. One of the oldest aristocratic... So all these aristocratic families, they were made by these Britishers. Except the Tagore family. They were from the Mohammedan time. The people became attached to the Europeans. Saheb śubha. If you meet one Englishman then your fortune is... I think Bombay was there also.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Rāmeśvara: All over the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That Hitler also did. Phāṇsa lāge dubudh bage: "If five men combine together, even the ghost will go away." (laughs) So everyone was against the Britishers. How they can keep their...? And nature's law also. They exploited the whole world for the benefit of few persons in London, and that is very bad.

Gurudāsa: You told me they wanted to be paid in gold by the Home Bill just to deplete the economy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Home Bill. Because I was student of economics. So Home Bill. Home Bill means all the Englishmen were engaged in India, either government, railway, industry, factory, and so on, so on, so on. Whatever... They have got some charges. So all the bills were sent to London, and they made a Home Bill. Their home is in England, so they won't take payment here. They'll take payment at home. And the government there, they'll present the whole bill to India and debit India's account in gold. That means, other words, all the payments which were to be made to the Englishmen in India, they were paid at home in gold.

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Gurudāsa: So that means they would spend at home instead of India for the benefit of themselves.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No Englishmens were allowed to domicile in India. No. Strictly. But if... As soon as they make home, it will be America. The Americans made their home in America, so a war of independence was... They have experienced that, so did not allow the Englishmen to make India home. "You come here, work and take your payment. Can't come down."(?) This was the policy, Home Bill. And India's gold was kept in London. So gradually all the gold finished. Very, very crooked policy they followed. They... They... In Muhammadan period there was no such peaceful exploitation. These Muhammadans, they wanted to become lumma, kukum(?). Bas. That's all. They were satisfied. But their princely expenditure was done in India. When Shah Jahan constructed the Taj Mahal, heavy expenditure, but the payment was received by the Indians. And here a railway, very smart railway bridge is constructed that... The payment was paid in England. This was the policy. Every even screw, iron screw, was imported from England.

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Gurudāsa: Was it introduced by the English?

Prabhupāda: Yes. India did not know what is tea. They started the tea gardens, and they recruited labors from India. We have seen in our childhood that Mahatma Gandhi Road. When I was standing on the gate, five hundred, six hundred laborers recruited from Bihar. Bihar and Orissa, these two provinces very poor. Even all these colonies, just like Trinidad... Where is Englishmen? If the laborers and Indians were sent... Therefore we find in Mauritius, in Africa, so many Indians. Their kingdom, first of all it was conquered by Indian soldiers. Then, when it was to be organized-Indian coolies, Indian laborers, Indian guards. They have got men and money, but they expanded Empire. So I am doing the same business: American money, American... (laughs) I am also a great politician.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: Hindu College?

Prabhupāda: No. St. Julia's. All Indian students, all very rich man's sons. I sent my sons to English, St. Mary's High School and St. Teresa's school. Learned English very nicely. Scottish Churches College. I was educated in Scottish... All our professors European, Englishmen and Scotsmen.

Satsvarūpa: I think you wrote somewhere that Sanskrit should be the national...

Prabhupāda: That is very difficult. No, I... They wanted to make a national language. There was fight, great fight. Therefore I suggested, "Why not make Sanskrit language?" Everyone will adore.

Satsvarūpa: Because English is the language of the invaders; Sanskrit...

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have no objection, English. But if they wanted that national language, why not take Sanskrit? I am international. I don't believe in this national or statewise. I never believed. This is very good idea, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). God is the proprietor. He is the original father. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Why do they not take this philosophy? They have attempted this United Nation organization. And where is the philosophy how to make one state? That is cheating them. Why not make one state?

Hari-śauri: They actually don't desire that.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: When I had to go that Indian quarter in Johannesburg, at least ten miles by car through the darkness.

Brahmānanda: The Indian quarters are far off.

Prabhupāda: Still, they're prosperous. They have got car. They have got business. They have got factories. Although they are harassed in so many ways, still they are prosperous. They have got their shops and business house in Johannesburg, and they cannot remain there. They must go back. So that was a failure of Gandhi. Gandhi for twenty years agitated. General Smuts, he was the head at that time. And he was beaten. He was so much troubled. Once upon a time Gandhi was captured and beat so severely that he was going to die immediately. Some English South African friend, he saved him. So Gandhi's life from this side is a failure. He could not achieve any success there. Then he thought that "I shall drive these Englishmen from my country." He came here in 1917.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gandhi was born in...?

Prabhupāda: Gandhi is a Gujarati.

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Pañcadraviḍa: This last Sunday in New York for Śiva-rātri there were so many Indians there. There were thousands of Indians in that temple. It was very exciting just to see so many people come in.

Prabhupāda: This is a good chance of United Nation-Indian, Americans, Englishmen, German, all mixed together.

Jayatīrtha: Our Amsterdam temple has about sixty devotees, and they're from seventeen different countries, seventeen different nationalities are represented in the temple. There's nowhere else where so many different nationalities are living together.

Prabhupāda: No. This is the nucleus of United Nations, real. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1), to understand everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. That is the basic principle of United Nation. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54), samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. In that stage there can be equality. Otherwise not.

Pañcadraviḍa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the text on the back of this magazine here, the back advertisement for the Gītā...

Prabhupāda: Here?

Pañcadraviḍa: ...is very nice wording. It's referring to India.

Prabhupāda: This. Oh, yes. This is the fact.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Pradyumna: Yes, restrained. Subdued.

Prabhupāda: Subdued. So then there is no chance. Kancai no wale basa mas korbe tas tas:(?) "If you want to bend this bamboo, when it is green, you can do it. And if it is yellow, can't. It will break." Tas, tas. This is Bengali. If you take one yellow bamboo, to bend it, it will crack and make sound, "Tas, tas." But when it is green, you can bend it. Kancai no wale paca means green. (Bengali) Kancai no wale basa mas korbe tas tas.(?) First human civilization begins when you restrain the children not to become restless. This is the training. Brahmacārī guru-gṛhe vasan dānto guror hitam. This training is lacking. Therefore even in old age, the washerman business. I am bodily conscious, and I am training others also to become bodily conscious: "You feel like Indian," "You feel like American," "You feel like Englishman." This is education, the same dehātma-buddhi, that "I am this body," extended. The extended feeling of bodily consciousness, is that advancement? Is that advancement? The bodily consciousness is animalism. (aside:) Why you are taking? Huh? No, no. You keep it.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (1): I think they should be invited here to see what is being done.

Prabhupāda: No, they know it. Study the whole history of the world. What the big, big leaders have done? They are not new leaders. Before them, all over the world there were big, big leaders. Napoleon promised so many things. At last, he had to drink horse's urine and die. When he was captured by the Englishmen he wanted water and he was given horse urine. Envisioned, "I shall make my promise, the most important stage." The Britishers, so many, Gladstone, Churchill, Lloyd George(?), British Empire. Have they done any benefit? Indira made plan, Nehru family will be English terrorist. Now what is her position? So they studying history. Still, they are promising. Mūḍha.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So I am also. So all these ministers, they invited me. They are in Hyderabad. I was in the house of Mr. Raju, the Endowment Minister. So they were very friendly. In Hyderabad, all the big, big government commissioners, the chief minister, they came in the opening ceremony of our temple. So it is fortunate that you were in Russia. So our humble attempt is to distribute the sublime knowledge of India. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Actually, outside India, there is no knowledge. Plainly speaking, their knowledge is as good as animals. Because in the śāstra it is said—and it is fact; either you refer to the śāstra or not, it is common sense-

yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ

yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ

(SB 10.84.13)

Go means, cow and khara means ass. So yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. This body, bag of kapha-pitta-vāyu, if one thinks that "I am this body," then he is a go-khara. So this bodily concept of life is going on all over the world. "I am Russian," "I am German," "I am Englishman," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that." But India, especially Bhagavad-gītā, when Kṛṣṇa opens His mouth to speak, His first instruction is that "You are not this body." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ asmin dehe. Asmin dehe. This material body... Within this body, there is dehī, the owner of the body. Now, you will find so many scholars, commentators on Bhagavad-gītā, but nobody understands this first line.

Morning Talk -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Finished.

Prabhupāda: Now they are poverty-stricken.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: So Hitler's grudge against the Englishmen, that is fruitful. Actually he owned the war.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He won. He won the war.

Prabhupāda: Because that was his determination. "I shall finish this British nation. Everywhere they have got flag, all over the world, I shall finish." That he did. And Britishers saved because the Americans joined. Otherwise... Churchill, he removed all valuables from London to Canada, all papers, all gold stock, everything. There is a book about this. Just like when there is danger you rush to save some valuables. Is it not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that's what you take first.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So British Empire, so many things in London, he all removed to Canada.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then, after the war?

Prabhupāda: Then, after war they might have brought again.

Morning Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His citizenship, yeah. By birth he's Indian, but by citizenship he's Canadian.

Prabhupāda: So by Indian birth, that is all right. Citizenship, I am also Canadian. I have got Canadian immigration. First of all I took Canada immigration. Then, from there, I took U.S. immigration. So make a subcommittee immediately. Make resolution. Ācchā. What about the Canadian, Australian, English men? They also require the same?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: There is no excepting an Englishman. So anyway, you make these four men, subcommittee, and you take whatever land is given, given up to Kṛṣṇa. Then pick up selected persons from each family and make a strong body. And then we organize Burma and Bangladesh. And he's going to Ceylon. Formerly India, Burma, Ceylon, they were one. And somebody's going to Pakistan. So there is chance of uniting all these different parts of India by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You have to organize. At least you organize here, Manipur center, Burma, and Bangladesh, and Assam. It will be successful.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Vāsudhaiva-kuṭumbakam, all right because Kṛṣṇa says,

sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya

mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ

tāsāṁ brahma mahad-yonir

ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā

(BG 14.4)

If you understand Kṛṣṇa, then kuṭumbakam. If you don't understand your father, where is kuṭumbaka? (Hindi) Kitna (Hindi) ...foolish idea. You do not recognize the father, and crying for brother. If you understand Kṛṣṇa, then vāsudhaiva-kuṭumbakam. If you do not understand, it is foolishness. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). If you can understand your position as part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, Paraṁ Brahma... Kṛṣṇa... Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). Everything in the Bhagavad-gītā... If you understand that "I am part and parcel of Paraṁ Brahma. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. I am also Brahman," that is brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20). Prasannātmā na śocati..., samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Then you can claim this vāsudeva... If you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, it is all nonsense, simply slogan. Where is kuṭumbaka? Then where is nationalism? I have gone to preach in the foreign countries—really on kuṭumbakam, not that "I am Indian. He is American. He is Englishman." Then there is no question of kuṭumbakam. And people are fighting on this plane. This vāsudhaiva-kuṭumbakam... Then why you asked the Englishmen to go away, quit India? What do you say?

Mr. Dwivedi: Narrow nationalism.

Evening Darsana -- May 11, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

German man (1): Germany.

Prabhupāda: Germany.

English man (2): England.

Prabhupāda: He is German. I went to Hamburg.

German man (1): In Hamburg. In Batche Schlossen(?)?

German devotee (3): (German)

German man (1): (German) The very beginning center was in the Batche Schlossen(?), Batche(?) Street, a very small temple. And then it changed to bigger and..., in Hamburg.

Prabhupāda: There is tramways.

German man (1): (German) I left Phalia(?) four years here and become a national (indistinct). (conversation with German devotee in background) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...here?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why did you come to India?

German man (1): For, for spiritual purpose.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

German man (1): Sādhana, tapasya.

Prabhupāda: And what is the aim of tapasya?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the aim of tapasya?

German man (1): The aim of tapasya?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The goal.

Evening Darsana -- May 11, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Bhūtejyā mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. If you want to go the devas, you can go. If you want to remain here, you can remain here. If you want to go back to home, back to Godhead, you can go. All facilities are there. But don't lunatically say that "I am God. I am everything." Don't put. Jīva is part and parcel of God, but part and parcel means the same quality but not the same person. This finger is part and parcel of my body. If you cut this finger you will find the same blood. And if you cut here, the same blood. But the finger is not the whole body. The finger is finger; your body is body. The quality is the same. So if you thoroughly study the nature of the living being, you can have at least idea of what is God. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The Vedānta-sūtra says. Whatever desires I have got, wherefrom these desires come? It comes from God because I am part and parcel of God. So the janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). I am born a person, so God must be a person. That is natural. A person is born from a person. (break) Why this obstinacy? Say me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is your reply? Prabhupāda wants you to reply to him.

English man: Reply to him.

Prabhupāda: You are searching after that one who has become many.

German man (1): I don't say. I don't say. All prophet is one?

Prabhupāda: You said that you are searching after that one.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is going on. Knowingly they are drinking poison, and we are trying to save them. Very difficult task. Jāniyā śuni... This Narottama dāsa's song, a very practical and very easily applica... Jāniyā śuniyā... Nobody drinks poison knowingly, but these people, we are all drinking poison knowingly. They're refusing to take Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So little difficult but very responsible task. So at least bring five hundred students. Then it will be very nice, gradually. Respectable gentleman, big, big man, at least these big, big merchants, their student doesn't... Just like Birla family, other big, big... If they require some technologists, they can hire. There are so many tech... Technologist means śūdra. And actually they are doing that. They do not train their own sons to become technologist. They pay for that, the śūdras, as servants are... The Englishmen used to say these men, craft and technolo..., "educated laborer." They are laborer and little educated. There are uneducated laborer, just like carpenter. He doesn't require any education. If he knows how to rub on... What is called, that? That instrument? He doesn't require to become M.A., Ph.D. All these laborers are working so nicely. So why they should spend, waste their time in going to school and college? From the very be... As soon as he's ten years old only, let him learn practically how to weave cloth, how to become carpenter, how become other craftsman. And in due course of time he can earn his... How to cultivate land... Why so many big, big universities for inviting everyone? There is no need. Educated means brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya. Brāhmaṇa will give real knowledge, and kṣatriyas will govern. For vaiśyas and śūdras, there is no... It is waste of time. Formerly it was done so.

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (break) ...whether I have a family.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: These Englishmen were very much eager to know the man who is working, whether he's family man, because a family man will never become irresponsible. And this is very, very much visible fact in India. A very poor man, if he's family man, he'll work. It is the family affection. And in economics we have read Marshall's economics. He gives... The economic development takes place by family affection.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good observation.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Therefore in India the father-mother takes the responsibility of the son, to make him a family man. Then leave, marry.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not a bogus sādhu.

Prabhupāda: Then he... Father-mother knows that he'll take care of his life automatically. And the boy and the girl are not allowed to mix with second girl, second boy. They are kept strictly. And when they're grown up, they're allowed to mix and the affection becomes firm. These are psychology. It is the psychology of woman that before puberty, if she has got a boy, she loves forever. She'll never be unchaste. So these marriage things are done very psychologically, scientifically, so that they may become happy, and then, in peaceful mind, combine together, good cooperation, they make progress, spiritual. This is the plan, varṇāśrama-dharma. Very scientific. And Kṛṣṇa says, "I am that." Whatever Kṛṣṇa shall give-perfect. Nobody cares. They are suffering.

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Gandhi tried twenty years to get little equal rights. The General Smuts refused. He was failure in South Africa. And then he decided that "I shall drive these Europeans, Englishmen, from India." He came. That also he could not do. Here also, for thirty years he struggled. He was failure, nonviolent. It is Subhash Bose's INA which drove away these Englishmen. You know that? That Indian Army, what is that, INA, Indian National Army? When he organized this National Army, then the Englishmen came to sense that "Now we cannot rule over." This rascal was going on, nonviolence... (laughter) While... "We shall pat them: 'Oh, yes, you are so powerful. Oh, why you are trying to drive away?' " And he'll be... "Oh..." The Baitland(?) Colony in a loincloth, and engaged in the sun chair.(?) He had no practical knowledge. He started the movement from 1917, and actually it was... Independence was given, 1947. Thirty years he failed. Twenty years he failed there. He spoils fifty years for nothing, and distorting Bhagavad-gītā, that in Bhagavad-gītā there is nonviolence. Such a rascal. Bhagavad-gītā begins with, with this word, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre yuyutsavaḥ: (BG 1.1) "Two parties desiring to fight." That is the beginning. Yudhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). And Kṛṣṇa's whole life is yuddha, fighting. Before His birth, plan was being made how to kill Him. This is yuddha. Kaṁsa was planning. And after His birth He had to go away, just to make a show, from His father's house to another house incognito to avoid yuddha. And when yuddha began, three months old, He killed Pūtanā.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) There is a... There was a great Bengali poet. He was very rich man, Micheal, Madhusūdana Datta. So he went to England, and because he was extravagant, he spent all his money. So he was in difficulty. He begged some money from his countrymen, help him. But nobody gave him. Only there was a big paṇḍita, Isvaracandra Vidyasagar. He gave him the money. He thought that "Such a big man is in need of money. Let me... He may pay or not." So after receiving that money, he thanked Isvaracandra Vidyasagar, that "You have got courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother." He was poet, so he gave these two examples: the courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother. So you are Englishman. You are famous for your forefathers' courage to expand British Empire. The America is also your creation. But everything in this material world deteriorates. That is not fault. But Englishmen were, at least formerly, famous for courage, enthusiasm, expansion of prestige. This Lord Clive was a crewman in a ship, and he established British Empire. So you have to show that Englishman-courage. So you have done something which has proved Englishman-courage. And go on doing it. That is your heritage. And two nice fields, Bangladesh and Nepal. Nepal is only Hindu free state, or it is called... Now India is also free.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: At least for few months I can continue. This is first business. Do it. And another point, that formerly the Britishers expanded empire. Now we have got better service. They... You expand the empire of consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is also the same view, but it is spiritual. Kṛṣṇa has given you the ability. Do it enthusiastically with the courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother.

Prabhaviṣṇu: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Bangladesh when we were doing programs, after the programs we'd distribute books, and there was such a great rush for books that we had to stay inside a locked room and sell the books through bars in the window.

Prabhupāda: That's very encouraging.

Prabhaviṣṇu: Everywhere we went the people would...

Prabhupāda: The best thing is that in Bangladesh you get foreign exchange. You print books there. It think it is cheaper there. Never mind for the quality, but you'll get good number of books. The government will be pleased.

Prabhaviṣṇu: Yes. Then we can export the books also into West Bengal.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. In this way organize these two places with the courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother. And we should ventilate in the papers that this Indian investment of American money is not American money. It is my money. I have written books, laboring whole night. The American boys have cooperated with me by printing, by distributing, and the money was received by selling the books. So the books are mine. I have given to the society. So I have done business, regular, in foreign countries. I have earned money and spending the same money in my country. It is not American money. It is my money. I have done business. That's all. It is a credit for Indian son so to do such tremendous business and bring money for investing in his own country, from the national point of view... Why the...? The Americans are not claiming that this is their money. They are my disciples; they are cooperating with me. Actually it is a business. I have done business, I have earned money and brought it at home to spend. Everyone does. They should not misunderstand that I have stolen money from America and brought it. It is fair business. That's all. Ventilate this. They are under impression that the American government is supplying, the World Bank is supplying. Nobody is supplying. I am earning money by business, by my hard labor.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What do you think? Should I take?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is that kavirāja medicine?

Bhakti-caru: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I don't see how it is having so much effect.

Prabhupāda: No effect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Powder isn't working effectively, and milk is keeping you going. I don't see that this medicine is doing anything. It's not giving you appetite.

Prabhupāda: Not even taste.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. It's giving you bad taste. You don't like to take it.

Prabhupāda: So your opinion not to take?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: My opinion is that if you feel that... I don't see that it's having any effect. I think the milk is the best thing, milk, mango milk like you're taking, little juices. This is for creating appetite, I think.

Prabhupāda: Take the courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother. (end)

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Girirāja: He's very good. So he's eager to get that in print. Then they'll be able to distribute literature to everyone without exception.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Do you remember when Prabhaviṣṇu was here you told him to go with "the courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother"? He remembers those words.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother."

Prabhupāda: This is the word of a great poet.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Girirāja's parents took him there, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and they made another offer to him.

Prabhupāda: What is that? (Tamāla Kṛṣṇa laughs)

Girirāja: Well, no, they... My father has increased the fortune, so he was trying to tempt me again, but I wasn't interested. But I think in the end he may give in to Kṛṣṇa, because we were in... We were helping Prabhaviṣṇu by giving him dollars, and he would give us rupees. So we were in a shop, and my mother was making a check, which she was giving to me to give to Prabhaviṣṇu. So the owner of the shop thought that the check was for him, and he started making some objections. So my father said, "No. In our system the husband gives to the wife, and the wife gives to the son, and the son gives to Kṛṣṇa." (laughter) So everyone laughed.

Prabhupāda: Just try to manage.