Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. Machine was not made for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, but we are utilizing it so that the machine-maker may be benefited. Because we employ everyone's energy to Kṛṣṇa. So by his energy he has manufactured this machine, so we are employing in Kṛṣṇa's service so that he may be benefited, purified. We are showing him the mercy. Just like one flower picked up from a plant offered to Kṛṣṇa is offering benefit to that plant. Because his energy is in the service of Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, the person who has manufactured this machine, when it is employed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness business, he's benefited. Indirectly, we are giving him opportunity, although he does not know it. But his energy is being utilized for Kṛṣṇa. We offer prasādam, the same principle. A man does not know about Kṛṣṇa. But he wants to eat.
Employ (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"employ"
|"employed"
|"employee"
|"employee"
|"employees"
|"employer"
|"employers"
|"employing"
|"employment"
|"employs"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: I must work. So that is allowed. But what is my... What is your main business? Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā nārtho yaś ceha kārmabhiḥ. Your only business is to understand what you are, what God is, what is this world, what is your relationship. This is your main business. This is your main business. Not that you earn money and employ it for sense gratification, as it is going on in this materialistic way of life. Nobody is inquisitive to know what he is. How can he? Very big businessman or very rich man or so-called advancement, can you say what you are? What is your duty? Nobody can't. So that is the main business, that jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā nārtho yaś ceha kārmabhiḥ. By your... By the result of your activity... Or your main activity should be inquiring about your spiritual existence. So this should be our inquiry. I think we should stop here. Yes. (break) (devotees offer obeisances) Govinda dāsī? Where is Govinda dāsī? You take these two fruits, offer, cutting, and distribute prasāda.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (4): Mahārāja, could you employ me in some...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, employ, I can employ in any way. But there is no payment.
Guest (4): I am M.A. in English, M.A. in Hindi. I am trying to devote myself to this work...
Prabhupāda: So please come.
Guest (4): But for my family liabilities...
Prabhupāda: What amount you want for your family, minimum?
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (2): Can I get one point straight? Is the Beethoven symphony all right provided it is blessed as an object and a work of art. Is it then all right? Or is it not all right because it doesn't use religious themes?
Haṁsadūta: Originally, music and art were employed only to glorify the Lord in the scripture and...
Prabhupāda: In Sāma-veda, Sāma-veda.
Haṁsadūta: Gradually, if you study our history, music history, God was left out. Just like you will see landscapes, and there's nothing in there about God. It was left out. But originally the landscape, there was some depiction of the activities of God or His representative.
Guest (2): So a Beethoven symphony is not all right.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Hmm? That is not service; that is business. (laughter) Just like we have employed some contractor. That is not service; that is business. Is it not?
Indian man: Certainly.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like sometimes they advertise: "Our customers are our master." Is it not? Sometimes advertise. So this is business, but it is a flowery language only that "Our customers are our masters." Because nobody is a qualified customer unless he pays. Hmm? But service is not like that. Service, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu mām (CC Antya 20.47), "Oh, You do whatever You like; still, You are my worshipable Lord." That is service. "I don't ask any return from You." That is service. When you expect some return that is business. (pause) Very nice road. (break)
Bob: I wish to ask you to advise me on how I can come to feel closer to God. I'll be leaving you soon, and I'm... With you...
Guest (2): So in other words, all dependent employees, they're all śūdras.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the statement of the śāstra. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "In the Kali-yuga everyone is śūdra."
Guest (2): So only those who have independent means, then, would come in the...
Prabhupāda: They can be counted, yes. Because a brāhmaṇa is advised not to accept service at any circumstances. That is the injunction of the śāstra. He can take the profession of a kṣatriya or a vaiśya, but not the śūdra. That is brāhmaṇa.
Guest (2): So whoever cannot stand on his own legs as an independent businessman or landlord or whatever it be, he's a śūdra.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not preset. That you can do, because you have got little independence. It is not natural to commit suicide. It is unnatural. So, because we have got independence, we can go from nature to unnature, and we shall be prepared for that. Just like a prisoner cannot go out of the prisonhouse naturally, but somehow or other he arranges to jump over the wall and goes away. Then he becomes again criminal, for farther (indistinct). Naturally, the prisoners cannot go out of the prisonhouse. Somehow or other, he manages to go out. That means he becomes again criminal. He will be again arrested, and his term of imprisonment will be increased, or he will be punished more. So naturally we cannot violate the destiny, but if we do it, then we suffer(?). But our destiny can be changed by Kṛṣṇa when we are Kṛṣṇa conscious. That we do not do, but Kṛṣṇa will do. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: (BG 18.66) "I shall give you protection." So that change takes place for my protection by Kṛṣṇa. There are two stages: nondevotee and devotee. The nondevotee is under the control of material nature, and devotee is under the direct control of Kṛṣṇa. Just like a big man. In the office there are many employees, they are controlled by different departmental superintendent.
Prabhupāda: Polsen.
Ian Polsen: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So you, you can talk with Mr. Polsen and give him instruction.
Ian Polsen: Thank you, Your Grace. Before I go, Your Grace, I am employed in government service. Is it your wish that I resign?
Prabhupāda: No, no. We don't say like that. The thing is that you serve Kṛṣṇa. Our predecessor ācāryas, they are also government servants, but they resigned when they decided to preach this cult. If you have desire to preach this cult, then that is different. Otherwise, as a gentleman you can remain in your position, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and follow the rules and regulations.
Prabhupāda: Well, this is a very difficult job, naturally. We don't have a large number of followers. As soon as you try to sell a diamond, you cannot expect many customers. Nonetheless, a diamond is a diamond, even if there are no customers. The number of customers is not the test. The customer must pay the value of the item. In this society we propose that you give up illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling. When people hear this, they go away saying, "Oh, Swamiji is very conservative." But I cannot become liberal and tell everybody, "Go ahead and do all nonsense and you can become God conscious." I cannot possibly recommend that. Therefore my first condition is that if someone wants to become my student he has to follow these four regulative principles. Consequently I do not have many followers, but I do have a select few. Because they are select, they will bring about a revolution in the world. One moon is sufficient to dissipate darkness. If there is one moon, there is no need for millions of stars. It is useless to expect a large number of followers. We want only one good follower. If I can get one man to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, I will consider my mission fulfilled. If you talk to whatever small number of followers I have, you will find that they talk better than any great philosopher, better than any scientist or politician. That is the quality of my students. What's the point in talking nonsense? One's words may be simple, but they should be valuable. Every day your employer is printing so many newspapers.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That, that is sense gratification. That is sense gratification. Teṣāṁ kleśo vaśiṣyate. For that sense gratification, he's working so hard, spending so much money, but the result is that, taking labor is their business. That's all. No benefit, no other benefit. Teṣāṁ kleśa eva vaśiṣyate. Nānyat, yathā sthūla tuṣa-khaṇḍana.(?) Just like you have taken the rice from the paddy. So now it is only skin. And if you try to employ that machine, Deki(?), what is called?
Devotee: Thresher.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Deki(?) What you'll gain?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now we can simply study the beautiful flower, and we can come to God consciousness. How it is made, so beautiful, unless there is brain? And what is that brain? Then you come to God. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svā-bhāvikī-jñāna-bala-kriyā ca (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). Para, the Supreme, has got so nice brain that things are happening as if natural. But no, the brain is acting, brain is acting. But His energy and brain is so nice that He hasn't got to do it personally. As soon as He desires, immediately the energy works. Just like nowadays electronic. So simply by pushing one bud, a button, thousands of business is done immediately. So if it is materially possible, just we have to think how much it is great and possible by spiritual energy. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate, na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. These are the Vedic description. God hasn't got to do anything with His hands. Just like here also. A big man, he has got secretaries, officers. He simply directs, "Do this," everything is done. Similarly, the Supreme Lord, how much energy He has got, and spiritual energy, that as soon as He desires something, immediately it is done. But it is done by employing energy.
Prabhupāda: So this is government's duty, that you are claiming that everyone should be employed, everyone should be engaged, in his own occupation. That is called svadharmeṇa idanasya(?). Sva-dharma means the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. By quality. Guṇa-karma. By quality and work. So it is the duty of the government to see that a śūdra is employed, is engaged as a śūdra, a vaiśya is employed and engaged as... Just like vaiśya. Vaiśya, it is said that kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Now the vaiśyas, they are in the share market speculating.
Reporter: Hm. There are no more vaiśyas. (laughs) Exactly.
Prabhupāda: Industrialists. Industrialists means śūdras. So if they're śūdras, why they should claim as...
Prabhupāda: Smith Stanstreet, an English company. They gave me an agency. So some of my enemy... He was my, he was my employer, but he gave information that I am also manufacturing now, drug and chemical works. So they informed them that "He's pushing his own goods, not your goods." They... He wanted that agency. Yes. In this way, because as soon as you come in the... Even in the spiritual field, my godbrothers are envious. You see? So as soon as you become successful, there will be many enemies. That is natural. That is the sign of success. In your business, if there are many enemies, competitor, that means you are successful. So anyway, Kṛṣṇa has brought me to the right path. So I may not fall down. That's all. (laughter) When I was reading this verse, that yasyāham anugṛhnāmi hariṣye tad dhanaṁ śanaiḥ (SB 10.88.8), Kṛṣṇa said that "When I show somebody My special favor, I take away all his money," I became shuddered, "So Kṛṣṇa will take my all money? If He's..." And actually that happened. He took my all money, all family, all friends and everything. (laughs)
Prajāpati: So many people now employed in sinful activities, jobs that are to do with sinful life. If we get rid of these sinful activities, what will we find for these people to do to replace their jobs?
Prabhupāda: Do pious activities. Do you mean to say we have to continue sinful activities for their job? (laughter)
Prajāpati: They say like that.
Prabhupāda: No, we shall give engagement.
Prajāpati: Cattle industry, liquor industry, tobacco industry, all these big industries.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Let them be without industry. Come to us. We shall give them food. Yes. Just like that... What is that? Mṛgāri, Mṛgāri. He was thinking that "Unless I kill animals, how I will eat, I shall live?" And Nārada gave him, that "I will give you to eat. Come here." So he became Vaiṣṇava. So that is our propaganda." Stop this nonsense business. If you think that 'How you shall eat?' I shall give you eating. Come on.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Therefore, Bhāgavata says, viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. Viṣaya, the four things—eating, sleeping, mating, defending—in any condition of life they're available. They're available. It doesn't matter in what condition of life you are living, but these things are available. Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. Sarvataḥ means everywhere, in any condition. This is available. And still, people are busy for these four things. Good morning. (to passers-by) That is assured, that any condition of life, you'll have these four things. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ (SB 1.5.18). Therefore we should not endeavor for these four things. That is already fixed. I'll get in any condition of life. Then? What for our energy should be employed? Which was not available, wandering up and down, beginning from the heavenly planet down to the Pluto's planet. This is a passenger ship?
Prabhupāda: Devotional activities, either he leaves from home or not leaves, that doesn't matter. It must continue from the very beginning. For the management of affairs, we require to divide. Because there are different classes of brain, so those who have very intellectual brain, they should become brāhmaṇas. Those who are fit for management and protection, they should be trained as kṣatriya. And those who are fit for producing food, taking care of the cows, they should be trained as vaiśya. And the balance, they're all śūdras. This is the division. You... Everywhere you'll find this division, natural. One class of men, very intelligent. One class of men, very strong, good brain for management, administration. (aside) Jaya. One class of men, fit for tilling the ground, field, and produce food, take care of the cows. And the balance, śūdra. That's all. So in our society, this division should be there. The most intelligent class of men, they should be engaged in preaching, reading books and instructing, taking care of Deity worship, temple, and another class should be strong managers, that things are going on nicely. Everyone is engaged, not that eating and sleeping. Everyone must be engaged, employed.
Ātreya-ṛṣi: Unemployment.
Prabhupāda: Not employment. They'll not work. That means mismanagement. Why they should remain down? Why they should remain without any employment? But the government is not doing that.
Devotee: They do not feel inspired.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Devotee: They do not feel inspired. No one has desire.
Prabhupāda: A child does not want to go to school, but it is the duty of the parent to send him to the school by some way or other. So that is government's duty, that a man should be employed according to his capacity. There should be no unemployment. That is very dangerous position of the society. Now this unemployment question is very strong all over the world. They'll plan that "This government is not good. That system is not good. He's not good." And he'll do nothing. He'll personally do nothing. Just like the hippies, they criticize everyone, but he'll not do anything. It is all... These descriptions are there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. We are going too far? Employed... (break) ...from the government to utilize this land. You see? So much. Everywhere you'll find. Everywhere you'll find. Who was with me in London?
Prabhupāda: So much, lying vacant. They have taken it into consideration that "What is the use of working in the land? Better kill one animal and eat easily." Because he doesn't care for sinful activities. The... "If I can eat the cow, why shall I take so much trouble to till the...?" This is going on, all over the world.
Indian man: Employment means now just to cut the money and not to work. No work.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) The same... Employment, even for the woman, the carakā. You see? Gandhi also studied this. There must be... Woman should be engaged for weaving. What is called?
Devotee: Spinning.
Prabhupāda: Spinning, yes. Everyone should be engaged. That is management. So all GBC members must see that in every temple, everyone is engaged.
Brahmānanda: That is the meaning of leadership.
Prabhupāda: That is important. Otherwise every work is preaching. See that everyone is engaged. There was an advertisement by the railroad department, their monogram was a wheel of carriage and they have written that every employee of the railroad should see that the wheel is running on. Wheel is running on. Now suppose in the office the clerks are working, so how they will see the wheel is running on? Because in the office of railway there is some complaint, there is some claim, there so many things... But that is depending on their wheel. So they should expedite their business so that wheel may not stop, it must go on. It is very nice instruction. So the wheel is going on. Suppose some station has asked for ten wagons immediately, and that requires the sanction of the divisional superintendent. That is his office. So the clerk should help the progress that immediately the sanction is done. Then the wheel will go on.
Prabhupāda: Business means if you have got extra grains or extra foodstuff, you can sell where there is necessity, there is want. That is business. We are not going to open mills and factories and... No. We are not going to do that. That is śūdra business. The real business is that you produce enough food grains, as much as possible, and you eat and distribute. That's all. This is business. He does not require any so high technical education. Anyone can till the ground and grow food. Is it difficult? This is the business. The first thing is that everyone, man and animal, especially the cows, they must be properly fed so become very stout and strong. Cows will supply milk, and man will work hard, without being suffered by dysentery. He must work hard. Any capacity. Work as a teacher or work as a kṣatriya, work as a ploughman. Or work as general assistant. He must work. Everyone should be employed. And his employment will be provided from any of these groups, according to his capacity. Either as a brāhmaṇa, or as a kṣatriya, or as a vaiśya, or as a śūdra.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) What these communists can do? We can do better than them. We can kill many communists like that. (laughter) Then it will be counteraction of communist movement. And you think like that. "Why you are sitting idly, no employment? Come on to the field! Take this plow! Take this bull. Go on working. Why you are sitting idly?" This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Nobody should be allowed to sit down and sleep. They must find out some employment, either work as brāhmaṇa or as a kṣatriya or as a vaiśya. Why there should be unemployment? The same example. Just like I am, this body is working. The leg is working, hand is working, brain is working, belly is working. Why there should be unemployment? You just stop this unemployment, you will see the whole world is peaceful. There is no complaint. And they'll very happily chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hm? Nobody's working in this field. They're all drawn to the cities to work in the factory. Condemned civilization.
Prabhupāda: Therefore this example is given: ass. For nothing, not for himself. He'll be given a little grass. The grass is available here. But still, he's engaged. Employment. Ass will reap, eat little grass. Grass is available everywhere. But still, he'll work for others, loading, overloading. This is ass. He has no sense, "So why I have taken so much overload? I can get grass anywhere. Let me remain free." But he has no such sense. Neither he will be allowed. (laughs) This is ass. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa... (break) ...there are many bābājīs. They are collecting cāpāṭis and smoking bidi, and have one or two women. That's all. It is going on. So they should be drawn: "Come on! Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take the plough." Not that you become Rūpa Gosvāmī simply by smoking. They are thinking they have become Rūpa Gosvāmī. Rūpa Gosvāmī lived like that. So they think by changing the cloth, loincloth, they have become Rūpa Gosvāmī. And whatever nonsense they like, they can do. (break) ...taken and all these bābājīs should be employed, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and draw plough." Then it will be nice.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...office, you cannot contact the proprietor directly. There are subordinate officers. Through them you have to take the proprietor's help. The office master is there. You have to satisfy the office master. You cannot directly approach the proprietor. If you satisfy the office master, then your promotion and other things is all right. But if you want to... I have got practical experience. One of my friend, he was working in office. So the proprietor was there and many other employees were there. So that my friend, he suggested something to the proprietor, and the proprietor immediately dismissed him: "Oh, this man want to suggest me. Dismiss immediately. Give him his pay he will require." In that I have got practical experience. He later on became so sorry. Now it is the process. So this is practical. We should not try to approach directly Kṛṣṇa. That is not the right way.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the first thing. Vāco vegaṁ krodha-vegam udara-vegam upastha-vegaṁ manasa-vegam, etān vegān yo viṣaheta dhīraḥ pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt (NOI 1). One who can control these kinds of urges, vāco vegam, talking nonsense—that is called vāco vegam. Krodha-vegam, anger. Urges of the mind. Mind dictates, "Do this, do that." Then udara-vegam, eating vegam. "Eat more, more, more." Udara-vegam. Upastha-vegam. Genital. When one can control these six vegān, urges, then he is fit for becoming gosvāmī, and he can make śiṣya all over, śiṣya, disciple, all over the world. Pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt. This is gosvāmī. Not that a business. (Hindi) Is there any mention Bhāgavata-saptāha in the Bhāgavatam? There are so many big, big commentators. They have never recommended. But this business is going on. They are holding Bhāgavata-saptāha and bringing money and employing it for the sons', daughters' marriage very opulently. And the, their supporters, they're also invited. They say, "Oh here is a gosvāmī." This is going on here. (break) ... of gosvāmī, there is not a single gosvāmī. At least visible. Where is that vāco vegaṁ krodha-vegam udara upastha-vegam (NOI 1) control? And where is that pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt, all world-wide?
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this bhakti-yoga means to know God, at the same time, practically employ yourself in the service of God, or in the transaction between God and yourself. That is vijñānam. Sa-vijñānam.
Guest (1): What is the distinction between jñāna and vijñāna?
Prabhupāda: Jñāna means theoretical knowledge, and vijñāna means practical knowledge. Simply to know "God is great," that is not sufficient.
Guest (1): No, that is theoretical.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is theoretical. You must know how great He is. That we have to learn from the śāstras, from the guru, how great He is. Just like in the Brahma-saṁhitā, Vedic, yato vā imāni bhūtāni jāyante. He's the source of all material elements. In Him everything stays, and after annihilation, everything goes into Him. This is one understanding. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13).
Prabhupāda: Then he is not even a human being. He is a rascal. That's all. He is not a human being. What to consider of talking...? Don't talk about him if he cannot chant sixteen rounds. He is not even a human. He is animal. (break)
Pañcadraviḍa: ...even he may be employed as factory worker or something.
Prabhupāda: Well, if you take factory workers are better than animals, that is another thing.
Nitāi: One point that you made a few years ago in Vṛndāvana was that this demoniac civilization, especially in U.S.A., keeps a man so much engaged, they make them work so hard, just to earn the simple necessities of life, that they don't have time to cultivate spiritual life.
Indian man: London, in London I have got my son. My son is there.
Prabhupāda: Oh. What he is doing?
Indian man: He is employed there. He's an accountant, cost accountant.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So your children are also... (laughs)
Indian man: I have got another boy in West Germany.
Prabhupāda: West Germany. Berlin?
Indian man: No, he is in Frankfurt.
Prabhupāda: Frankfurt. Oh, yes. Frankfurt is a big city. Sons are all married?
Prabhupāda: There was a cartoon. When I... One leader is approached for food, that "We are in scarcity of food." The leader says, "Of course, it is very difficult to assure you for food grains. But from next week you will have television." (laughter) Next week you will have television. So these improvements are going on, television, but they are starving. This is going on. Advancement of knowledge and learning is going on in discovering television, but there is no food. This is the mismanagement of the leaders. Dishonest. There is enough food. Punjab still produces food grains. Bengal still produces rice, but they are stocked by government men, and they are mishandling. They are lying on the station for dispatch, but they will not be dispatched. They are rotting. Rainy season spoiled the whole stock; still, they are not dispatched. Official: "There is no dispatch order. There is no wagons available." Simply mismanagement or bribe. This is going on. And people are suffering. How it is possible to purchase? Suppose India's income, the average income, is very poor. Suppose one man earns ten rupees a day, and if he has to purchase ten rupees simply rice for the family, ten..., what for others? Then he becomes dishonest. He wants to earn money by taking bribe in his own capacity. So bribing has become a custom. Anywhere you go, unless you bribe, you cannot get release. And they say that "Whatever salary we are getting, that is not sufficient. Our extra earning is by taking bribe." And now in the Western countries also the difficulty is arising. I do not know whether you are already, I mean to say, aware that so many boys, they are becoming hippies. They are reluctant to do anything. That is a very dangerous sign. If you... If unemployment, no engagement, that is not good for the country. Everyone should be employed.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Because I did not earn this money, I have printed. I am prepared to twenty rupees. So he says, "Why shall I pay ten rupees? I must wait for the customer, for twenty rupees, and hoard it." Even there is sufficient stock, he will not sell. Therefore the other man, who is honest, he is suffering. This is going on. So to stop this inflation, the government must stop this paper currency. Then the inflation... There will be no more inflation. But that they will not do. They want to cheat people. "In God I trust. Take this paper and you be satisfied that you have got thousand dollars." That's all. This cheating is going on. Why should you pay me paper? Give me real dollar, in gold. That they have none. They haven't got. That's all. They will employ laborers and cheat them by paying these papers, and this rascal will think that "I am getting more money." That's all.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Our society will be ideal by practical application.
Satsvarūpa: If we stopped all the transportation industry, there would be huge unemployment. It would be a great...
Prabhupāda: No, no, we are not going to stop employment. We live like this. You see. If you like, you live like us.
Bhagavān: Example.
Prabhupāda: Example.
Satsvarūpa: Not that we dictate to the... Not that we are going to force everyone.
Prabhupāda: No, we are not going to force anyone. "Our mode of living is like this. If you like you can adopt." Just like we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So we are not forcing anyone that "You also, you must chant." No. We live like this.
Prabhupāda: Yes. By spinning thread, then you make cloth. Without any price. You grow your cotton and have your cloth. So by machine, they have created so many idle brain, and therefore hippies are coming out, problem. This is the result of this. Because they have created this machine, not everyone is employed, so he must become a hippie. Idle brain is a devil's workshop.
Bhagavān: Even the older generation, even the fathers, they are becoming...
Prabhupāda: Anyone who hasn't got sufficient to work, to be employed or engaged, then he must become hippie, vagabond. What is this? Temple?
Dhanañjaya: This is Mary, the...
Yogeśvara: The Virgin Mary.
Bhagavān: So they have to be kept employed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They have to be... They should not possess, so that they will work always.
Yogeśvara: Yeah, but that was exactly the situation that sparked the Communist revolution. When the workers felt themselves exploited, then they revolted.
Prabhupāda: No, workers, what is that? Exploited?
Yogeśvara: Yes, when the śūdras were seeing that, "Oh, these men, they are keeping us as slaves, and they are making us work just for our food," then they revolted.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is my request to you.
C. Hennis: That's UNESCO. That I can't answer upon very fully. But I would suggest that they are, in that way UNESCO, United Nations through UNESCO, is very active in promoting culture and in stimulating philosophical thought. We are, on our side are more concerned with the place of the worker in society, and our organization is conceived along a peculiar model which we call the tripartite system. The members of our organization are states, not governments, but states, and each state is represented in our conference by two government delegates, one delegate of the employers and one delegate of the workers. And so the decisions that are reached, the same pattern goes down through the other organs of the organization. But the decisions that are reached in the International Labor Organization are thus not decisions which are only those of the government or the governing classes. They are decisions which represent a very broad consensus of opinions between both the employers and the workers as well as governments.
Prabhupāda: According to Vedic conception, the higher class of men, first-class, second class, third class, they are never to be employed. They remain free. Only the fourth class men, they are employed.
C. Hennis: Well the third-class would be what kind of typical worker?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Third-class men means making provision for the society for eating. That is... It is stated, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). Kṛṣi means agriculture, and go-rakṣya means cow protection, and vāṇijyam means trade. That means the third-class men, they would give protection to the cows, produce enough food grains, and if there is excess, then it can be traded. So this is the business of the third-class men.
C. Hennis: But that would cover businessmen and tradesmen and farmers.
C. Hennis: You see, my organization represents all the states in the world practically, all the states of any importance in the world, with the exception of a few like Monaco and San Marino and Andorra and that kind of place. And through my organization, the states of the world, and that doesn't only mean governments, express their concern and endeavor to improve the lot of all of the people who are active in some way in the economy and in modern society, these may be professional workers. We don't deal with medical doctors because that is the problems of the World Health Organization. We don't deal with teachers and university professors and philosophers and so on because that is more the problem of UNESCO, and they deal with it very thoroughly. We don't deal by any means fully with the actual production of foodstuffs. This is the FAO, the Food and Agriculture Organization who does it. What we do do, we look after the rewards the people get for the work they do in the ordinary way of life as employees in offices, in banks, in commerce, in shops, trading. We are very interested in developing rural areas and in improving the lot of the rural worker so that the rural worker will no longer be under a disadvantage by comparison with the workers in the towns, so that they will have proper facilities, proper leisure and proper opportunities for self-improvement.
Prabhupāda: I may say in this connection, in America, the laborer class is very highly paid. Anyone, any labor class man can earn $25, $50, daily, very easily. But because there is no direction of the brain, these labor class of men—I have seen—they—especially these Negroes—51%, they are drunkards. They spend their money in drinking. They do not know how to utilize the money. Because the brain is not giving direction. Or they have no brain. "I have got so money. How I shall utilize it?" As soon as he gets money, he use it, he uses it for drinking. You may think that you are sufficiently paying to the labor class, worker class, but because he is not guided by brain, he is misspending the money.
Prabhupāda: So if they had sense, they should have exported where there is necessity of this milk, butter, grain. Then the world will be happy.
Yogeśvara: That was my question. If there is necessity for exporting, then there is necessity for maintaining ships and trains and means of communication, employing workers, electrical dynamos for running...
Prabhupāda: No, point is if in one place you can produce food grains, butter and milk, why not other place? That is my point. The land is everywhere the same. If one place... Now here, in Europe and America, there is enough production because the population is less. So the whole America is bigger than India, at least four times. And the population is not even half. What is the population whole America?
Prabhupāda: Cloth. Then comes coat or shirt or so many things. So cotton is everywhere. Similarly, the spiritual energy is everywhere, but it is transformed by different processes. Therefore the Vedic injunction is sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Everything is Brahman. Our philosophy is that everything being Kṛṣṇa's energy, everything should be employed for Kṛṣṇa's service. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The property is Kṛṣṇa's. By Kṛṣṇa's energy, everything has come into existence. Therefore everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Therefore everything should be employed for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, for His pleasure. Suppose you create something... You create some building, you create some family, you create some... So many things. You want to enjoy it. Otherwise, why you create? Why you take the responsibility of a family? For your enjoyment. Otherwise who takes care of the family? So similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person. He has created us, Kṛṣṇa's family. We also address Kṛṣṇa, "O Father, give us our daily bread."
Prabhupāda: That's it. He is the source of everything. So-called material, so-called spiritual—everything coming from Him. Therefore everything transformed... Or not transformed. Everything is transforming. That's all right. Therefore everything belongs to Him. So everything should be employed for His satisfaction. That is perfection. Iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). After many, many births, when one becomes actually scientist, he understands, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is the source of everything." Find out.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is Kṛṣṇa's. But you are thinking you are. That is Kṛṣṇa's. Therefore this body should be engaged for Kṛṣṇa's service. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You, as soon as you accept this body is Kṛṣṇa's, then you cannot employ it for other purposes. But that realization you have no. Why do you say it is Kṛṣṇa's? You are thinking your body. Or you are body. Where is that consciousness?
Paramahaṁsa: The impersonalists argue when they read the verse, ahaṁ sarvasya bhūteṣu...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Paramahaṁsa: They argue that Kṛṣṇa's in the heart of every living entity.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: I think mostly they work at some... Well, some service, yes.
Prabhupāda: Factory.
Haṁsadūta: Employed at some factory. But very few people actually work on the land. And we can see so much land. No one is working. 'Cause by machine, they can work so quick on the land. (break)
Prabhupāda: This should be exemplary, that our community shall live in this way and save time for spiritual advancement of life. This example should be shown to the whole world, that "Here is a community. They have no problem, and they are simply interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." This will be the idea. Is it possible?
Haṁsadūta: Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: Yes. First of all, I will pay my obeisances.
Prabhupāda: Then that servant, while he was employed, there was an urgent business. The rich man said that "Tomorrow I am going. You must come and go with me." So suppose he was to go at ten o'clock. Then at nine o'clock a messenger came: "You are ready?" "No, just I am cooking. Then I shall finish my cooking, take my meals and then we shall go." So he was very angrily inquired, "So why you did not...?" "No, I am cooking." "Where you are cooking?" Now, he has three bamboos, and on the top there was a pot, rice pot, and he was giving fire here. So that rich man came and saw. "What kind of cooking this is?" "No, there is heat. It is going on." (laughter) "So how you do this, such a nonsense." "No, if the temperature from the lamp on the roof of the sky could protect that man, why not it will be cooking?" Then he could understand this is the reply. So that man was paid. So this kind of progress, cooking, three miles above, a pot, a little fire, it will not act. There must be proper adjustment of cooking. Then you can cook food and eat.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Whatever talent one has got... These talents are also acquired after austerity. It is not ordinary thing. So everything should be employed to describe Uttamaśloka, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is Uttamaśloka. So we have got so many Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's pastime. We can overflood. Just like you can overflood with this literature, we can overflood... This is art. Art, music, everything we can utilize. In any way one is addicted—let him eat only, let him sing only, let him paint only, let him dance only—we have got everything. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Let him do business also. Yes. Engineering-construct temple. It is so all-perfect movement, Kṛṣṇa... That is Kṛṣṇa, all-attractive. Everyone can be attracted and give up everything. He will be attracted by Kṛṣṇa in such a way that he'll give up all nonsense.
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. (Indian guests leave and devotees offer obeisances.) I talk with the professor of religion sometimes, "What is the meaning of religion?"
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. What is that college you are employed?
Professor Fenton: Emory University. Its about three miles from here.
Prabhupāda: So, what definition you give to religion?
Professor Fenton: It has to do with saving, something that binds societies together, it has to do with the supernatural of (indistinct) God. And hm... Sometimes...
Prabhupāda: That there is relationship with God. Is it not? Religion has got relationship with God.
Devotee (1): They even say, "I've seen him before."
Prabhupāda: Where they have seen me? Somewhere. (chuckles)
Devotee (6): All the employees in the Atlanta airport, now they all know you. They've all seen your books, and they've seen your picture. And when we go through the check points they say, "Oh, we saw him. We saw him come through. We saw your spiritual master come through the airport."
Devotee (7): There was one lady when you were here the last time at the airport, she would ask, when we saw the woman at the airport, practically every day, "When is that nice gentleman going to come back to Atlanta?" And she's always thinking about you. (break)
Prabhupāda: No, no. You have to work, but minimize work.
Devotee: I was wondering if it was all right to work hard for Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. To minimize this material work means the energy should be employed for Kṛṣṇa. Minimize work this, means this side, material side. And save time and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is the principle. And if you are busy from the early morning to go to the working place and up to ten o'clock, then where you get for chanting, time? So therefore you save time from material activities and engage it for advancing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is life.
Rāmeśvara: But the Communists, they also argue that this Christian religion is hypocrisy. It has not brought peace on earth. So they also want to abolish it.
Bhagavān: Well, I have the same thing in France. Spiritual Sky is a legal business. That means you have to legally employ people. But I employ the temple people and just take their salary.
Jayatīrtha: Yes. That's all right.
Bhagavān: Do you take Karandhara's salary?
Jayatīrtha: No, that's a different thing. Anyway, let me finish the point. The point is that legal salary has to be paid, and then taxes have to paid from that. So for example, Karandhara's salary is not really a good example because he doesn't give fifty percent. But one thousand dollars is the salary.
Bhagavān: Minimum? Minimum salary?
Prabhupāda: No.
Jayatīrtha: That eight hundred, two hundred goes for taxes...
Prabhupāda: No our, our... That was the... Formerly, who was managing?
Prabhupāda: No, the Spiritual Sky was contemplated that our gṛhastha bhaktas may be employed...
Haṁsadūta: Yeah, but they're not employed anymore.
Jayatīrtha: That's not true.
Prabhupāda: And the bare necessities should be paid.
Jayatīrtha: Right. Well, generally we have about seventeen, eighteen gṛhasthas employed in Los Angeles, and they get much smaller salary, and they, for the most part, they're giving everything over subsistence to the temple as donation. They take out minimum subsistence...
Prabhupāda: But Karandhara is not giving anything.
Prabhupāda: Nobody, but from the history it was found that it belonged to Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava. That... In Delhi one lawyer is there. He knows. He told me. (long pause)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In our society, some devotees have an idea to spend money by employing professional men to advertise our society in so many different ways through advertising campaigns, etc. My idea is that our money should be spent on direct preaching. In other words, that can't...
Prabhupāda: Then we are spending advertisement, for?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, sometimes I know... Just... I mean they hire professional firms to assist in public relations work.
Prabhupāda: Not in... What is that?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Our next program is to organize farming. Let anyone come. We shall give him free food and employment: "Come on." Not that "I want to work as a clerk in the city." You produce your own food. I give you ingredients. I give you land. And work for five, six hours, and take your food and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee (1): Anybody who comes to the farm has to agree to follow the four regulative principles? These people?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise you are not coming. Our main business is to make him Kṛṣṇa conscious. Where you have left my that overcoat?
Prabhupāda: No, as usual. Just like they dig well. They dig well. They begin immediately, and then you dig the earth, and the structure goes down. Then again, then again, like that. They were experts, they were experts, to construct... Labor is cheap. That time, practically there was no labor cost. At the present moment, on account of factories, the labor cost has increased. Otherwise the laborers, they were, they have no sufficient employment. So two annas, four annas. I was paying labor, four annas, say, in 1930s. Four annas. In Allahabad I was paying four annas. He would work whole day. In Bombay eight annas.
Devotee (1): They also have the big structures in Egypt, the pyramids.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And such stories are in Mahābhārata also. The demons were engaged, giants and demons, for construction. Yes. And they were very good artist, how to do it. Now we employ the first-class men, so-called first-class engineering, but they were meant for the demons and giants. Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: Well, that explains how they built such fantastic temples and palaces.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Amogha: Some people say, "Why don't we see any giants any more today?"
Prabhupāda: Yes. In the Africa, there were many giants, very high, very strong.
Devotee (1):. Where is that?
Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone is worshiping a person. Everyone is... But we have to worship the Supreme Person. That is perfect. Everyone is worshiping a person. Suppose you are employed somewhere. You have to worship your boss. Otherwise no employment.
Guest (2): Oh, well, I consider it as a mutual...
Prabhupāda: It is mutual. It is mutual.
Guest (2): It's a mutual kind of support. But worshiping in a sense of religion or in a sense of a higher person, it's a different matter.
Prabhupāda: Worshiping means appreciating high qualities. Worshiping is not blind. If I know that you have some high qualities, I worship you.
Prabhupāda: No, force is there—God's desire or supreme will. You are trying to do something, you are trying your best. You are employing your full energy and all the means. Still, it is not done. Therefore the force is coming from God. Otherwise how you will explain? What is the explanation, that you endeavor, you did all that is possible by you, still, the result did not come? So how you will explain?
Hari-śauri: You must accept God.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (1): They try to make God their order-supplier, and when the supply does not come, they say there is no God.
Dr. Copeland: And after you left the college, were you employed?
Prabhupāda: Yes, I was appointed manager of a very big laboratory, Dr. Bose's laboratory.
Dr. Copeland: Ah, yes.
Prabhupāda: You know?
Dr. Copeland: I've heard of it. From another worker. While you were in the college or afterwards, did you participate in any political movements?
Prabhupāda: Yes. I joined this Gandhi's.
Dr. Copeland: You did? Had you met Gandhi?
Prabhupāda: I met several times, but not as personal interview. But I liked his movement, national movement.
Prabhupāda: This is brāhmaṇa. We do not serve anyone, any merchant, officer, any... No. We chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. If Kṛṣṇa wants, He will give us food, or we shall starve. We are not going to serve. This is the proof. We are spending not less than twenty lakhs of rupees for maintaining our establishment throughout the whole world, but we do not know what is our next moment's income. We do not know... We have eaten today. We do not know whether we shall have any eatable next day. This is our position. If it is available, we shall eat; otherwise we shall starve. This is our position. Still, I don't seek any employment, "Give us some service to maintain our..." No, we don't do that. We never do that. When I was alone, I was not doing that. I was living alone. I had no income, no friend, no shelter. Since I left my home, since 1954, I never cared for anyone maintaining me. And there was no resource, fixed income, nothing of the sort. I depended on Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, in the whole society we are feeding daily ten thousand men.
Paramahaṁsa: Even if they wanted to stop this space project, they couldn't stop because they've already spent billions of dollars for making equipment and rocket ships and launching pads and rocket bases and so many employees. If they stop, then so much would be wasted, so many people would be unemployed. So they have to continue even if they know that it's a bluff.
Prabhupāda: That is the way of falsehood. If once you speak something false, then to protect that falsehood you have to take to so many other falsehoods. This is the way of falsehood.
Paramahaṁsa: One lie leads to another.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...are going to Venus, Americans and Russians combined together?
Prabhupāda: What is that factory?
Jayatīrtha: He employs these alcoholics and derelicts in different kinds of work, making things. And he was keeping these people living in this palace, but now he's built another place next door where he keeps them and he has them employed. It's sort of an Alcoholics Anonymous group.
Prabhupāda: Let them chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and they will be rectified.
Jayatīrtha: Yes, that's a best thing. Bhagavān hopes eventually to convert them. Anyway, it's a very beautiful place. Especially this time of year, it's very beautiful.
Prabhupāda: How long it takes to go there from Paris?
Bahulāśva: They get lots of money for their position, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Because if they are not employed by government with big, big salaries, who will care for them, scientists? Hundreds of scientists may wander or walk in the street. Who will recognize him unless he has got money? I have seen in India. So many scientists are loitering in the street without any employment. Who cares for them?
Dharmādhyakṣa: They will have to go on welfare, Prabhupāda, pretty soon.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But a saintly person, even he has no money, people care.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. (break) ...Paṇḍita says, vidvat tvaṁ ca nṛpatvaṁ ca naiva tulyam kadācana: "A rich man, or a king, and a learned man, learned vidvān, they should not be compared. There is no comparison." Why? Sva-deśe pūjyate rājā. "A rich man or a king may be worshiped in his kingdom," vidvān sarvatra pūjyate, "and if a man is learned, he will be worshiped everywhere." Therefore, he says, "Never compare with rich man with learned man."
Brahmānanda: ...this Mr. Henderson, he is living, looking like a...
Prabhupāda: Hippie.
Brahmānanda: Yes, hippie.
Jayatīrtha: He makes things for Spiritual Sky. He's not employed by them, but he makes things and sells them to Spiritual Sky. (break) ...job as a professor, but he doesn't want to. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...say "impossible" is a word found in fool's dictionary.
Jayatīrtha: Jaya. (car drives past devotees chanting)
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)
Prabhupāda: There are now so many scandals. So these are the problems. Why? The man leaves the woman uncared for.
Brahmānanda: One statistic has come that there are more people in this country receiving welfare than there are those who are employed in jobs outside of government. That means the government is actually spending for more people than... (break)
Prabhupāda: Is not that a problem to the government?
Nitāi: A huge problem.
Prabhupāda: Let people be engaged. Machine means one man or two man working... That will mean unemployment. Machine means unemployment. The principle should be that everyone is employed. Either brāhmaṇa, either kṣatriya, either vaiśya or śūdra. Nobody should become idle and gossiping, and sleeping, then utilize... This should be principle. Everyone should be engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then life is successful. And self-sufficient. If we have got spoiling living program, these are necessities. Growing, cultivating, producing, there will be not possibility of, and we don't want more than the necessity. If by God's grace we get more then you can make sale, we are not going to work for selling purpose. Then money will be there. How to get money, how to get money? And as soon as you get money, more than necessity, then sense gratification, then this, that, this, that, then you become implicated.
Prabhupāda: Just see. (laughs) It may cost two cent. And you have got your sugar also. In this way organize. Avoid machine. Keep everyone employed as brāhmaṇa, as kṣatriya, as vaiśya. Nobody should sit down. Brāhmaṇas, they are writers, editors, lecturers, instructors, worshiping Deity, ideal character. They have no anxiety for food, for clothing. Others should supply them. They haven't got to work. Sannyāsī is always preaching, going outside. In this way keep everyone fully engaged. Then it will be ideal. Otherwise people will criticize that we are simply eating and sleeping, escaping, so many, so many. And actually that is the position. Unless one is fully engaged, oh, that is not good. That is tamo-guṇa. Tamo-guṇa, and rajo-guṇa very active, and sattva-guṇa, intellectual activity. Both of them, active, only tamo-guṇa, not active.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they manufacture, hand, hand in the sugar cane, two men. Even we can prepare hand machine by cutting the wood. They do that. We are not against machine. You can utilize machine. But we should not allow others unemployed and use machine. This should be point. You can use. Use machine, that's good, but not at the risk of keeping others unemployed. This should be noted. First thing is that everyone should be employed. If you have got many men, then why should you engage machine. These rascals, they do not know. They're taking machine and keeping so many men unemployed. And the welfare department is paying them. They do not know how to organize society. And therefore hippies are coming out. Crime, criminals are coming out. (indistinct) The government is paying for becoming criminals and hippies and prostitutes. And how you can be happy, a society full of prostitutes, hippies, and criminals.
Prabhupāda: It is defective training, bad civilization. They cannot employ everyone. (break) ...religion stresses that everyone should be engaged. No one should remain idle. That is the government's duty. Bad government.
Ādi-keśava: But the government says it is every man's freedom to work or not to work.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is his irresponsible government: "It is man's freedom—he may eat or may not eat." It is saying like that.
Ambarīṣa: They would rather not work if they don't have to.
Prabhupāda: Why we are working? Eh? Why we are not for that freedom, that "We shall not work"? Why we have engaged ourself for working?
Ādi-keśava: For Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Babar was father of Akbar, Babar.
Tejas: These are all Muslim names here.
Prabhupāda: It was Muslim kingdom. Todarmal is Hindu. The Muslim emperors, they used to employ Hindus as chief of department.
Tejas: Like Rūpa Gosvāmī.
Prabhupāda: They did not believe Muslims to become the chief. They knew it very well that these Muslims are not reliable. They can kill their father even. (end)
Prabhupāda: Our professors, they came from missionary, but there were other officers in government service, I.C.S., Indian Civil Service. They were also. In the province where they were employed he must learn the provincial language. Their administration was excellent, undoubtedly, British administration. Nobody in the world, so far administration... But their crooked policy ruined them; otherwise good administrator, good politician, good diplomat.
Harikeśa: They made those nice buildings in Delhi, too.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes, and everything good. Simply heart was not very good.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Heart.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: About seven-thirty. Botanical gardens. (break)
Prabhupāda: These are owned by Indians?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: These are some Muslim shops and Indian shops mostly. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...are employed in the factory?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Very menial labor, driving trucks and delivery. Gokulendra, when he went to...
Prabhupāda: They are given equal facility for education?
Prabhupāda: Then? Why does he say "extinct"? These cheaters, they cheat themselves and bluff others and mislead the people. This is their position. We want at least that people may not be bluffed by these rascals and waste their time. That we want, that much. They may say that "You are not scientist." Yes, I am not scientist, but I can request you that don't be bluffed by this nonsense. That much I can say. I can prove that he is a nonsense. Why you are wasting time after them? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)...their folly, European men. Where the American men will go? (laughter) Just see. (break) ...from India they made Indian center, and they conquered both sides—Far East, Middle East, Africa—with Indian soldiers. They organized Indian soldiers and Sikhs and Gurkhas, and they employed them for extending their empire. British soldier does not mean... Maybe two, one or two British commanders, but real soldiers were Indians.
Prabhupāda: What is that, here?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You said there's a kendra everywhere, kalā.
Prabhupāda: Kalā means this. (laughter) Ei kalā. (break) Prabhakara was working here. He was employed here. He was staying on that room, so I also stayed with him two days. (break) ...count of his unsteadiness he has lost so many good jobs. I do
not know...
Tejās: Some man was telling me that... One M.P. was telling me that there are many criminal cases against him also now.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: How did you find that out?
Tejās: He told me. I don't know why. This Dr. Lokescandra? He told me that "Ācārya Prabhakara has many criminal cases against him."
Prabhupāda: No, when they... That is another thing. Again, "they will have," future. Again rascal.
Harikeśa: Because just like New York has gone become bankrupt, so all the cities will go bankrupt, and then people will not have employment.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Bankrupt does not mean their philosophy is lost. Bankrupt may be due to some other reason. That does not mean the capitalistic philosophy is finished.
Harikeśa: Well, actually the communistic philosophy is strictly economic.
Prabhupāda: Not actually. Don't say "actually." Sometimes you say "accidentally" and sometimes "actually." Such a rascal. (laughter) "By some chance" and sometimes "actually."
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: And reduce population, kill it. Hiraṇyakaśipu was doing that.
Acyutānanda: Birth control?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Prajāpati. He stopped Prajāpatis to beget children.
Indian man (2): They said they are giving employment to many people.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Indian man (2): The government says they are giving employment by opening these mica mines and so many things. The government says they are giving employment and work to many people.
Prabhupāda: Hm. So you like to be employed?
Prabhupāda: (break) ...tulasī...
Jayapatāka: Our land.
Prabhupāda: So why not employ one man to manfacture tulasī beads? Yes. There are many experts.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have to live here as devotee?
Jayapatāka: No.
Prabhupāda: No, let them manufacture. That will make him devotee.
Bhavānanda: On the right here, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is our nursery for our landscaping.
Prabhupāda: So this is nice. It is very.... It will be very nice to live in these rooms. What is the cost of this kattan?
Prabhupāda: (break) They are being watered regularly, eh? (break) ...the neighbors, they do not like to sell, so don't bother. Let them keep it green. We shall see it. While walking we shall see all green at their expense. (laughter) Don't be eager to purchase. Just see. As soon as we began this digging, immediately he came down one thousand. And if you really purchase, he'll come and give at three thousand dollars. And he was asking six thousand. They came to seek some service. If it is possible, then give them, engage them. They said, "You are giving employment, so many." Is it possible?
Jayapatākā: They can carry sand.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Jayapatākā: They can carry sand by bullock cart.
Acyutānanda: We call a barber, and he shaves one, and we said, "Now sharpen again," and he does not bring his stone. "Go back and bring your stone." But even in the free society, American society, they have union. And that is caste. To protect the employment, one union man cannot do the work of another union or he'll put another man out of work. So they stay in their place. So that is sva-dharma and para-dharma. So the same principle is natural, svābhāvika, again appears naturally. Hmm? Just like we... In my house we purchased a piano. One union is hired to bring the piano from the shop to the lorry, another set of workers will lift the piano and put it into the lorry, and another union will take the, from the lorry into your house. So you have to hire about nine different men, because they'll say, "No, now our work is finished up to this point."
Prabhupāda: In America?
Prabhupāda: In America?
Acyutānanda: Yes. And the other union is the truck driver. And no man will do the other work. Like in India, if you hire a woman to wash the pots, if you tell her to wash the pāyakhānā, she will not go. Another woman you have to get. And that protects them. That protects their employment opportunity.
Prabhupāda: Division of labor.
Acyutānanda: Division of labor.
Prabhupāda: (break)... gradually no simple life. Struggle for existence, very, very...
Acyutānanda: People confuse change for progress. When it is just changed and done in a more complicated way, they think it is called progress. That is also the Communist thing when there is protest: "Oh, well, you have to accept change. It's natural. It's a natural change."
Prabhupāda: So give them attention, yes, even at the..., as far as possible. Jaya.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It may be possible for Dhṛṣṭadyumna's father to employ himself and myself in that business. Then I can go...
Prabhupāda: Very easily.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...as their sales representative and at the same time be a representative for books...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...because they already can go into China.
Rāmeśvara: The women argue, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that they can be given.... If they are given a good chance, they can make equal contribution in business, in science. So they are demanding equal rights, equal employment.
Prabhupāda: So why.... Why not equal rights that you stop producing children like the man? The man does not produce. Why you are obliged to produce?
Rāmeśvara: That is their special qualification.
Prabhupāda: That is.... Similarly, everything is special. You are a different entity. You must have different engagements. That is your perfection.
Rāmeśvara: But we all have.... The women and men, they all have the same brain, they say.
Dayānanda: You told me, "What is the use of becoming a paṇḍita?" So the other day I was in one shop, and the man was asking me about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one of the shop owners. So I told him one verse, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). He did not know it, but he called over one of his employees. He was a paṇḍita. He was working in the shop as a salesman. So I was thinking that he has become a paṇḍita.
Prabhupāda: Become a salesman.
Dayānanda: But he's just working in the shop as a salesman.
Prabhupāda: And he has become a servant of a person who does not know Sanskrit.
Dayānanda: Yes, he does not know anything, but he has become servant.
Dr. Patel: When Mr. Ford comes willing, back on...? Is he coming back again?
Prabhupāda: No, there are many. There are many. Now, you see, near Delhi there is Modi Nagar. That Mr. Modi was not very educated man, but how he has developed?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He is employing something like fifty thousand people.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi) Mr. Modi near Delhi.
Dr. Patel: Modinagarawala.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he is employing fifty thousand people, without any education.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We had a very big program in Modinagara.
Prabhupāda: His wife received us very nicely.
Dr. Patel: There are so many qualified men, but no jobs.
Prabhupāda: No jobs.
Dr. Patel: (break) You have to employ yourself, sir, here.
Prabhupāda: So many Ph.D.'s, they are loitering. Therefore they become Communists and this, what is called? Naxalites. Educated young boys, they have no job.
Dr. Patel: These two parts of India... (Hindi) Bengal and Kerala, they're highly educated communities. They are the, I mean, advanced Communists also, both the countries. In Gujarat there is no communism, though we are educated. (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: Just like assassin is aside.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Just like this manufacturer of this car, he's not handling this creation by his own hand. He has got money, energy. He pays the mechanical person to create, but ultimately it is Ford. Ford is not creating everything. Ford's money, Ford's employees, workers, they are creating, but the name is Ford. Similarly, everything is being created by God. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). And He has got so many working hands. That is also.... Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). Multi-energies, they are doing like that.... But He is supervising, "Have you done this?" "Yes." "That's all. Go on." So how can you go beyond your experience? Everything is created. A child may think, "How this car is created?" But it is, factually it is created. He cannot imagine how this nice car is created. Why child? Even elderly persons in a nondeveloped country, they'll be surprised how this car is created. They cannot do it.
Prabhupāda: Russia, that, what is that, Communist leader?
Devotees: Nikolien? Lenin? Breshnev? Kruschev?
Prabhupāda: Kruschev. Kruschev. He was making money, therefore he was driven out. His son-in-law, his sons were being employed, neopolism, what is called?
Kīrtanānanda: Nepotism.
Prabhupāda: Nepotism. That is human nature.
Hari-śauri: They said he was becoming too friendly with the West, getting too many Western ideas.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Prabhupāda: You see these two things especially, that they.... English is their mother tongue, mother language. They can easily become English scholar very easily. And Sanskrit language is no difficulty. Read and write, read and write, then he will learn. Our education in Sanskrit was in college. Of course, I was the best student in my class of Sanskrit. I was standing first. But we are not like the so-called Sanskrit scholars. But for our purpose we can read and write, that's all. Similarly, we don't want any very learned scholars, Sanskrit grammarian to manufacture jugglery of words, meanings. No, we don't want that. Simply we can conduct our business, that's all. Just like Marwaris, they, their education is up to their business understanding, that's all. They don't want to be scholars or technologists. You won't find in big, big Marwari family they have become a doctor, engineer or technologist, no. But in business dealings they are first class. (laughs) That they train. I had one Marwari friend in Calcutta. He was a very rich businessman and has got several (indistinct). So sometimes I went to his house. I saw that he had engaged a Sanskrit paṇḍita and an English teacher. That's all. So I asked him, "You don't send your children to school?" "No, no, no, no. I..." If we require some technologist, we can purchase. You pay some money; so many technologists you will get, M.A., Ph.D., D.H.C., C.H.C. All right, take payment and do business (indistinct). They employ very, very, very large salary. But on the head, management, their own sons, grandsons.
Prabhupāda: What is that progress? Dog's jumping is progress? (laughter) Is that progress? A dog is running here and there, here and there, and you are running on the four wheels? Is that progress? That is not Vedic system. The Vedic system is that human being has got a certain amount of energy. Better energy than the animals. Better consciousness. That should be utilized for spiritual advancement. So whole Vedic system is meant for spiritual advancement. The energy is employed in another direction, not the energy is employed to compete with the dog. Therefore sometimes those who have no idea of religion, they see that the... "Hindus" is not the proper term. The Indian saintly persons, they are not busy like the dogs. Because they think the dog race is life. But actual life is spiritual progress.
Prabhupāda: Pratihatā means suppose you are destined to suffer. So apratihatā means in spite of your so-called suffering, the suffering will be reduced or there will be no suffering. But in spite of suffering, you can make progress in spiritual life. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja himself, his father was putting him in so many suffering conditions but it was not impeded. He was making progress. He was making progress. He didn't care for father'sputting him into so many suffering. That is called apratihatā. If you want to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness, your material condition of life cannot check it. That is the progress (?) (indistinct). But so far material condition, that cannot be checked. You have to suffer. But in case of devotee that suffering also, can be stopped. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa's version is false: ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. Suffering is there on account of my sinful activities but Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ. Make it clear. Ordinarily destiny cannot be checked. Therefore instead of wasting your time for change your economic condition or material destiny, you employ this energy for Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But that everything should be done in relationship to Kṛṣṇa. Then everything will become purified. Hṛṣīkeśa hṛṣīkeṇa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate. When the senses are engaged for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, then they're no longer... The senses are compared to the sharp teeth of (indistinct). (indistinct) sharp teeth are naturally very dangerous. But when engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, the shark teeth, they're broken. So they can't feel any trouble. Although we are using the senses which is the cause of bondage, these senses employed in Kṛṣṇa's service, they no longer become a source of bondage, but of liberation.
Prabhupāda: (Sanskrit) Serpent is dangerous, so long he has got the fangs. (indistinct) If the fang is taken away that means he's no more dangerous. So (indistinct). But if I am sure that his fangs are taken away (indistinct). Senses are dangerous, it is compared with the serpent. (Sanskrit) But if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness that (Sanskrit) the fangs are no more existing therefore it is no more dangerous.
Prabhupāda: It was stolen by that caretaker, a black man. He expected some monthly remuneration.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The same thing happened at our temple here. They were employing one man for cleaning the floor. So after a while I told them "Now fire this man." So anyway, they fired him. As soon as they fired him he stole a big air conditioner, worth five hundred dollars. Anyway, he came back later and we got the air conditioner. I caught him and I said "Now bring it back," and I sent a devotee with him and he brought the air conditioner back. (pause) "Hall of Minerals and Gems."
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Prabhupāda: Well, this is good lake. People are becoming dishonest. They'll take money and do nothing.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm seeing down at Dalhousie Square area that the government employees, they are constantly taking tea break. They come late to work...
Prabhupāda: I have seen in New Delhi, I was going to sell my Back to Godhead, so they were all sitting and gossiping, and files are piled up. If you want some file it will take six months. Doing nothing. Sixty percent of the employees are simply wasting time.
Hari-śauri: City workers are very famous for not doing anything, taking tea breaks.
Prabhupāda: Why they will do? When they get money without doing?
Prabhupāda: He knows computer?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. Yes, he's good electrician. So where he is employed?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: He's employed with one of my clients.
Prabhupāda: Oh. What salary?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Sperry, Sperry Univac.
Prabhupāda: What salary he is getting?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Ah, he's getting about twelve, thirteen hundred dollars now.
Prabhupāda: In this way. Elderly student... That is the way of Indian teaching, that there is one teacher, and how he's managing hundreds? That means there are groups. One who is elderly student, he's taking some beginners: "Write a or A like this." That he can teach. What he has learned, he can teach. Similarly, next group, next group. So in this way, one teacher can manage hundreds of students of different categories. This is organization. Not that everything I have to do. I cannot teach anybody to do it. That is not intelligence. Intelligence is that employ others to help you. That is intelligence. Not that "Oh, I was busy, I could not do it." Why? What about your assistant? Train assistant so that in your absence things can be done. So the elderly students, they could be... Just Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to do that. When He was sixteen years old he could argue with Keśava Kāśmīrī, because He was practiced. In this way, stage after stage, everyone should be expert. Everyone should be teacher and student.
Prabhupāda: You follow that, brahmacārī gurukula, that I've already explained. That should be done. Don't bring any new thing, imported ideas. That will not be helpful. It will be encumbrance. "My experiment with truth"—Gandhi's movement. Truth is truth. "Experiment" means you do not know what is truth. It is a way of life, everything is stated there, try to train them. Simple thing. We are not going to teach biology or chemistry. They are not going to... Our students are not going to... Our students should be fit for teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. By their character, by their behavior, by their knowledge, that is wanted. Biology, chemists, physicists, and mathematician there are hundreds and thousands. We are not going to waste our time that Gurukula should produce a great grammarian, a great geologist, biologist, don't want that. There are many other educational institutions. If you can get a good driver of your car, so what is the use of wasting your time to learn driving? Is it not? If you have got important business, you can do that. Why should you waste your time to learn driving? Better employ one driver, pay him some fare.
Harikeśa: You once said in Vṛndāvana that the Marwaris, they don't bother going to school because they can make a lot of money by sitting by the phone and just pay a few rupees a day and any educated fool can do the work.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they do that. They are employing in their factory, big, big chemist, big, big physicist, engineer and so on, but they do not bother. They are paying thirty thousand rupees per month salary, Birla. Expert, imported from foreign country, but their sons are never troubled. They know how to utilize that worker of thirty thousand rupees per month and to earn thirty lakhs from him. Why shall he waste his time? He knows how to they earn. They pay a man thirty thousand and through him earn thirty lakhs. Actually, in order to make a balanced society, the varṇāśrama-dharma is very important, cooperation. So these things are meant for the śūdras, and brāhmaṇas are not meant for this.
Bhagavān: ...built a big factory here to engage people who were socially misfit, and he was making all kinds of plastic toys. So when we moved in we suggested that he help manufacture Spiritual Sky. So now almost his whole factory is being used. Many young Indian boys who have come to France looking for something, they had no money. So he has employed them here. So they're working, they've brought their families.
Prabhupāda: They're established.
Bhagavān: Yes, and he's building them houses. (breaks)
Prabhupāda: I think it's unusual in Europe.
Bhagavān: It's like this every July and August, very sunny. During these months most people in Europe come to France. (break) ...storage house.
Prabhupāda: What does he manufacture?
Hari-śauri: Pedagogue. Here we are. "Pedagogue: schoolmaster, teacher." That's all he gives. "Pedagogy: science of teaching."
Bhagavān: "Employing pedantry." Look up pedantry. It says, "Usually derogatory."
Hari-śauri: Oh, "Pedant—one who overrates booklearning or technical knowledge or insists on strict adherence to formal rules. One always possessed by theory doctrinaire(?)."
Prabhupāda: Yes, this word.
Hari-śauri: Pedant.
Prabhupāda: Pedagogue?
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Three thousand lost.
Dr. Patel: Because the prices was so down, you see, and fertilizer they are selling at a very high rate. Before it was available, a bag, for fifty rupees or fifty-one. Now it is more than eleven-ten. They don't want that a man in the city should be employed for less than five rupees a day. It's very expensive. And they don't work also. They used to work very hard in ancient times. Now they come at ten o'clock, go at five. Before they used to come early morning at six, seven o'clock and work up til five in the evening, and you used to feed them afternoon.
Gurudāsa: Use gobar instead of...
Dr. Patel: No, gobar is not that much available.
Gurudāsa: Gobar means cows. Get a cow.
Rāmeśvara: In America this is becoming the number-one problem—unemployment.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They must be. Artificial employment. (train re-starts)
Rāmeśvara: People go to college in America; they can no longer get jobs. They spend so many years going to college getting their degree. So now they cannot find any jobs.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the position in America. And what to speak of this country. Therefore, after being educated they go to foreign countries. You'll find so many Indians in educational labs(?) in your country, because they don't get any suitable jobs. (break) ...their so many departments will be closed.
Rāmeśvara: It's possible in India but not in America.
Prabhupāda: So those who are unemployed, let them come to us. We shall give them employment.
Rāmeśvara: Yes. But for the mass population...
Prabhupāda: Well, gradually you will increase and...
Rāmeśvara: We have to give them something that they can do in their home.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Rāmeśvara: Because it is impractical to think that they will give up everything and move into the temple.
Rāmeśvara: Because it is impractical to think that they will give up everything and move into the temple.
Prabhupāda: No, those who are unemployed, let them come. We shall give them employment.
Jagadīśa: On the farm.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: For those who are unemployed, that's attractive.
Jagadīśa: But for those who are already employed...
Rāmeśvara: But most people have jobs.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: Well, physical, mental... That's right. You are so intelligent that you make distinction between physical and mental. They're all manifestation(?). You are so intelligent. Without mental, is there any physical? Then why you engage psychologist? There may be physical madman. Why you take him at psychologist? Why? Now you're discriminating mental and physical. If mental has nothing to do with physical, then why you employ psychologist to cure a madman from physical violence? You are so fool. Without mental pain, there is no physical pain. Without mental derangement, there is no physical disturbance. Who commits suicide? Who commits murder unless he's mentally deranged? You are very intelligent, that you want to make differentiation between physical and mental. There is differentiation. But cure physically.(?) Naturally they'll become sound. Otherwise why so many psychologists, psychiatrists, are employed in your country?
Prabhupāda: No, anything higher study, don't care for it.
Rāmeśvara: It's true. Technical studies and business...
Prabhupāda: Our Hayagrīva is not getting any employment. Nobody's interested. "Eh. What is the use of higher mathematics, all this, these things? We have to earn money."
Rāmeśvara: Physics, computer technology, all these things are big.
Gargamuni: And they're prepared to spend lakhs. Some of these technical books cost more than a hundred rupees a volume.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They're charging.
Rāmeśvara: That's the trend, then, everywhere, because unemployment is increasing.
Prabhupāda: And especially in your country it will be dangerous because these blacks, if they don't get employment, they will create havoc, these blacks. And they are not civilized. They want money, and if they don't get money, then they will create havoc.
Gargamuni: Money and liquor.
Hari-śauri: Yes. If they do get money, they just buy it.
Prabhupāda: Money they get. But they can live. But there is no culture. They want liquor. So these rascals do not know how we are making human civilization. They do not see it, that without any fixed income we are maintaining such a huge establishment all over the world, without any fixed income. How we are doing? We are not thieves, we are not rogues. We are all gentlemen.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is proof. You are the proof. There is no doubt. They are intelligent. Intelligent and there is no poverty. In other countries, on account of poverty, they are thinking, "First of all we must be materially prosperous. Then we shall think all this nonsense God." This is then... This propaganda is going on, "What you'll, can do by God. First of all we must have sufficient to eat, sufficient to drink." And this is their philosophy. How they can...? There is a Sanskrit verse that daridra-doṣo guṇa-rāśi-nāśaḥ: "If somebody is poverty-stricken, all other qualities become useless." And nowadays the education is for money. One has passed D.H.C., Ph.D., but if he does not get an employment, then what is the value? He's begging from here: "Sir, will you give me some service?" That's all.
Prabhupāda: They are not independent. Fully dependent on the employer. So they give poor salary. Dai Nippon has their own hospital, own education, and everything, big industry. And little salary, that's all. So whatever house they allot, they have to accept. And I have seen the director living in a cottage like this almost. So Japanese actually they are poor. Only the capitalists, they have got... Therefore their yen value... You go to purchase—"Two thousand yen." You'll be surprised, "So much paying!" But it has no value. "One million yen." (laughs) In the beginning I... "What is this nonsense? So much?"
Svarūpa Dāmodara: My job, my work, chemist, the instrument I work. Saying that... Must be written to the Federal Government, to the Labor Department, saying that there's nobody who would be able to do my job in the United States, qualified. Then the second condition is that by being employed myself, then nobody will be displaced. Any U.S. citizen will not be displaced by my employment. So those two conditions. And it has to be written by the university sponsor.
Prabhupāda: So very difficult, that.
Satsvarūpa: At any rate, even that one had many illustrations in it, that Mādhavendra Purī. So he was wanting to know if he could... In order to get all these paintings done, these so many drawings, whether he could employ some Jaipur artists that Saurabha is working with, which would be inexpensive.
Prabhupāda: Jaipur artists?
Satsvarūpa: There's some... Just like village craftsmen and workers that Saurabha is working with in Bombay who are making the furniture and different decorations in Bombay, and he says that Saurabha also knows some men in these villages who are artists, and they work for very little, but they can make nice authentic illustrations of all these things, whether...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what they do.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They employ this.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: Long as we do it very discreetly.
Prabhupāda: Huh? No, this was very done, that hiding in the garage, and as soon as, "Oh," beat. Give them. "Eh!"
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And he could understand. There was no proof, but he could understand very well why he was beaten.
Prabhupāda: '64. I stayed at Morarji's Andheri...
Indian: Andheri House.
Prabhupāda: ...Colony for his employees.
Indian: Scindia Steamship.
Prabhupāda: Yes, colony. I stayed there. Sometimes I stayed with one gentleman in Churchgate. He is a banker, Sindhi gentleman. In '65, Sumati Morarji gave me that ticket.
Indian: You went away then, I think.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading:) "Hoxar pleads for healthy land-man relationship. Mr. P. N. Hoxar, deputy chairman of the Planning Commission, yesterday pleaded for developing a healthy and rational land-man relationship as the foundation to build the socio-economic superstructure. Unless such relationship is developed through proper land reforms, it is useless to talk about science and technology in employment-oriented planning, he added. Eighty percent of the people live in the villages and till the land which they do not own. The holdings were fragmented and the tenant was uncertain. They were burdened with debt to such an extent that they could not pay them back and fell into bondage of one sort or another."
Prabhupāda: Another rascal.
Prabhupāda: No, any knowledge. Just like modern scientists, they do. When they discover something, they give it. Go from university to university. Whatever... They may be wrong. They want to give it. That is the way. In India such vast knowledge, it is kept for professional Bhāgavata readers. How much harm they have done! Some professional Bhāgavata readers, it is their profession. And they will gather some woman and talk of rāsa-līlā and Bhāgavata reading. Some lady, old men, some woman, they will gather and sit down with their grammar,(?) karma-kāṇḍa. So that his material position will be better off. And the reciter will gather so many dozens of (indistinct) and umbrella and cloth, and take it away and sell it in the market, and employ it for his son's marriage, daughter's marriage. And this is called Bhāgavata. This is going on.
Prabhupāda: Yes. What is that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "To Ratansingh Rajda, Member of Parliament, Bombay. Dear Sri Rajda, We thank you very much for visiting us at Hare Krishna Land and for sympathetically hearing our divine master Śrīla Prabhupāda. His Divine Grace mentioned several difficulties which are impeding his great work, and you have been kind enough to promise to remove these obstacles. 1) Our men are regularly being asked to leave India. How can we manage such important projects when our men are forced to leave? Every year we have to send so many men away from India and then again we have to bring them back. For every man who comes and goes like this, we have to spend Rs. 10,000, and in this way we are wasting not less than Rs. five to six lakhs each year. Our men should be given permanent residence in India. The United States Government granted Śrīla Prabhupāda a permanent residency visa so that he could fulfill his mission in the USA. Similarly, Śrīla Prabhupāda's foreign disciples should be given permanent residency in India. Śrīla Prabhupāda requires at least one hundred men to remain in India, and he is prepared to bring Rs. ten lakhs, foreign exchange, per month just to maintain them. They will not have to seek employment, they are not interested in politics, and they will not touch one paisa locally for their maintenance.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If not equal quality...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At least...
Prabhupāda: So we have to touch all these. Then poverty... And "Drive away poverty. Give them more money." More money means cheating. You are employing; I am employed. Begins from government. More money and printing, they are coming. If I have got power to print paper and distribute it as money, you are dissatisfied, getting hundred rupees, you want two hundred, so what is to me? I print and give you. This is artificial inflation.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: More money means printing more bills.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then, by seeing, seeing, he becomes little important. And the proprietor gives him some hand expense. And then, one day, he becomes very expert. He starts his own business. That was the system. Why he should go and waste time for education? A boy is given to a carpenter. He learns very easily. A weaver, he learns very easily. A shopkeeper, grocer, he learns very easily. That is education. Why he should waste time for academic education and create unemployment? So long he's not educated, he has got enough employment. Still they take in the morning, say, half a mound of ḍāl and goes home to home: (Hindi) So by saying, after mound of ḍāl, he makes up these two, three rupees' profit. That's all. Where is unemployment?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I saw personally Hari-prasad Badruka in Hyderabad. He tried to send his son to college, and the boy kept failing. Finally he took him back, and immediately he took to business, because his father's a businessman.
Prabhupāda: That's all. That is their business. They might have presented such devices in a book, a different color. Just like medical science. The preparation is nothing, but they'll employ big, big medical students to write in such a way that it will be presented as very important. They are doing this. We have done in Dr. Bose's laboratory. They employ. (speaks garbled words to sound like big words) Go on speaking. (laughter) It sounds very nice. What is the meaning of? (more garbled phrases) So I have got my own common sense. I understand. (indistinct) in the Vedic literatures. (indistinct comments by devotees)
Prabhupāda: That I already told. Prejudiced.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Bhakti-caru was saying that one of the reasons Bengali people are by nature... They're intelligent. They're always intelligent people, not so much physically hard working. So without so much physical work to do and without proper employment, this intelligence now has become misdirected. 'Cause nowhere else in India do the Communists have such a foothold as in Bengal.
Prabhupāda: Intelligent and lazy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Intelligent lazy. I looked on the medicine bottle of this cough medicine that you took.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Prabhupāda: Hm? So my fear is that after training our men so much, if he's lost, that's a great loss. Then future of society becomes very hopeless.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the principle is that if a householder has outside employment and can pay, then he can live inside our temple buildings.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. What is the wrong?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At least for five or six years now the system has been that no man and woman should live together in the same building as where the Deity is.
Prabhupāda: That is the system. Temple is meant for retired men. Brahmacārī, sannyāsī, vānaprastha.
| Page Title: | Employ (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 30 of May, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=116, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 116 |