Either you... (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"either you"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: "I shall steal. I shall steal one cucumber." And another one thinks, "If I steal, I shall steal the diamond." But the stealing propensity is there, hīrā-cora or kṣīrā-cora. "Well, I am stealing one..., only one cucumber. That is not very dangerous." But, but to the eyes of law, both of them are criminal, either you take hīrā or kṣīrā. Big thief and small thief, that's all. Thief. You are thief. So we manufacture concoction that "Yes, I have got this stealing propensity. So I'll not steal diamond. I'll steal kṣīrā, not hīrā." This is only mental concoction, but he is a thief.

Jayapatākā: I think this side's...

Prabhupāda: Hm ?

Jayapatākā: So gṛhastha life is Kṛṣṇa allowing us to steal kṣīrā?

Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes, kṣīrā-cora. The prostitute-hunter is hīrā-cora, and he's a kṣīrā-cora. That's all.

Hari-śauri: (break) ...sense gratification that comes from renouncing like that, that's like the Māyāvādīs.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh?

Hari-śauri: By artificial renouncing everything, they're actually simply another form of sense gratification.

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: If he cannot remember Kṛṣṇa, he will sleep. That is the test. When you have seen so many reading but sleeping, that means there is no Kṛṣṇa. Yāhāṅ kṛṣṇa tāhāṅ nāhi māyāra adhikāra. Sleeping is māyā, so if he's thinking of Kṛṣṇa, there cannot be sleeping.

Jayapatākā: No, I'm talking not about the reading half, but the service half.

Prabhupāda: Service also... Everything depends on advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If Kṛṣṇa is there, either you read or work as a coolie, the same thing.

Jayapatākā: You instructed that service is as good as reading, but only... We see that devotees only doing service without reading, then they become agitated in their mind.

Prabhupāda: That means there is no Kṛṣṇa. The real disease is there is no Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he'll be agitated, either reading or working.

Jayapatākā: So how can they, the Kṛṣṇa...?

Prabhupāda: That, if they... One must go through this practice. Everyone must attend the ārā..., maṅgala-ārātrika. One must attend this. One must attend this. Otherwise no prasādam. If one says, "I am sick," no prasādam. "You are sick. You cannot digest. That's all." And sick, sleeping, and at the time of prasādam, voracious eating, that is not sickness. If you are sick, you cannot take food. Don't take. (end)

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Eh? No. Living entity is also atom. One class of atom is matter, and one class of atom is the living entity. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.... Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4). These are... This material, matter, everything is combination of atom, atomic particles. Either you take earth or take water or air or fire, everything is combination of atom. That's a fact. But we know that these atoms are coming out as the energy of Kṛṣṇa. Bhinnā. Bhinnā means the quality different; not of the same quality. Apareyam: "This is inferior quality, but there is another, superior quality, jīva bhuta, and that is living entity." So two kinds of atoms are coming from Kṛṣṇa. One is the spiritual atom, and the other is the material atom. So spiritual atoms, they are many, many times greater than the material atoms. And these material atoms is this universal, innumerable universes. Some of the spiritual atoms, when they want to enjoy independently, they are given the chance of enjoying this material atom. So in the material world it is combination of material and spiritual atoms. In the spiritual world, there is no material atom; everything spirit. That is three-fourth energy, and this is one fourth. Paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. (break)

Guru-kṛpā: If we say that Kṛṣṇa enters even within the atom, what is His business there?

Prabhupāda: Business is to guide the rascals like you. (laughter) Do you follow or not?

Morning Walk -- March 9, 1976, Mayapur:

Madhudviṣa: You have also said, regarding that, that Kṛṣṇa gives us the conclusion of the those three processes in the Bhagavad-gītā, that karma is concluded, yat karoṣi yad aśnāsi (BG 9.27), and jñāna is concluded, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19), and yoga is concluded yoginām api sarveṣām (BG 6.47). So is there some conclusive..., like Kṛṣṇa says, concluding, sarva-dharmān parityajya. Is there some conc...?

Prabhupāda: That is the real end. You have to become the eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. Either you go through karma or jñāna or yoga, it doesn't matter. The ultimate aim is how to reach Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. (break) Arjuna achieved the favor of Kṛṣṇa by fighting, by killing. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: "I believe," "In my opinion." He's a rascal, and he is giving his opinion.

Cyavana: Prabhupāda, are the laws of karma written?

Prabhupāda: Laws of karma is you touch fire, your finger will be burned. This is laws of karma. You cannot avoid it.

Cyavana: They are so complicated, though. Are they actually written?

Prabhupāda: That is another.... This is the law of karma. If you do something which is forbidden, then you suffer. This is laws of karma. Or you enjoy. Both good and bad. That is laws of karma. Either you take the result good or the bad.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: To a devotee it is very clear, the laws of karma. He sees how that God, Kṛṣṇa, is just.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Devotee means tattva-darśī. He has seen the real truth. Devotee means who follows Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is giving the real truth. If you take, then you are devotee. If you don't take, you are nondevotee.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What is the role of mercy if one takes or doesn't take?

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: To break it as soon as possible. (laughter)

Pañcadraviḍa: That doesn't make any sense. "Crackpot philosophy."

Madhudviṣa: If there's no individuality, I can't understand how can there be any desire for...

Prabhupāda: No, there is individuality, but these people do not understand it, because... In the Bhagavad-gītā, acchedyam. It is not that part is taken. The accedya. Because spirit cannot be cut into pieces, and while it is in piece, either you take it in part or something else, that is eternal. It is not that by the māyā we have become piece. Yes. That is not māyā. It is piece. All right, sanātana, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ (BG 15.7), eternally that piece.

Lokanātha: They did not take that to mean the constitutional position of the living entity.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they do not know. Therefore they are less intelligent. They are individual, but artificially they are thinking, "I shall become one."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the karmīs may argue that to become desireless is against the natural order. Because we see that right from the beginning of our life we're desiring so many things.

Prabhupāda: Desireless. When he will desire less, you convince. They're always desiring.

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Akṣayānanda: You must have known that before you went to the West.

Prabhupāda: No, it was Kṛṣṇa's arrangement. Kṛṣṇa wanted to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the Western countries, so He gave me the chance to take the credit, that's all. It is Kṛṣṇa's arrangement. But He liked that one of His devotee may take the credit. That's all. Nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savyasācin. Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna that "I have already killed them. They are not returning, either you fight or not fight, but you can take the credit." So it was arrangement of Kṛṣṇa that Western countries should now have this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And He wanted to give the credit to His poor servant. That's all. Kṛṣṇa likes that. He does everything, but He gives credit to His (chuckling) poor servant. That is my..., vairāgya. The whole process is how to achieve vairāgya. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ, janayaty āśu vairāgyam... (SB 1.2.7).

Pṛthu-putra: Jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam.

Prabhupāda: ...jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam. That was automatic. And the bhakti-yoga means vairāgya-yoga. Vairāgya-yogaṁ nija-bhak.... Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam (CC Madhya 6.254). So anyway, you have got the right thing. Now make it perfect. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). With great vow and endeavor, kīrtana should go on. Then it is perfect. There is no difficulty. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam (BG 10.10). The kīrtana is bhajana. So if you are engaged, satatam, in kīrtana, then you are safe. Māyā's father will not be able to touch. In India as soon as you say, "You give up your family life," immediately he becomes morose. The family attachment, especially the wife's attachment, is very, very strong. And śāstra says if one can give up this attachment of wife, then he can conquer Kṛṣṇa. It is said. He can conquer Kṛṣṇa. Simply.... Eh?

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And eats him. The mouse makes very comfortable home by digging, and the snake comes, he enters without any labor, and the mouse is there and he eats it.

Jayādvaita: Free food and free home.

Prabhupāda: Yes, ājagara-vṛtti. What is that? Python. Ājagara-vṛtti and madhukāra-vṛtti. For your necessities of life either you take ājagara-vṛtti or madhukāra-vṛtti. Madhukāra means the fly, honeybee, bees. They take little from this flower, little from this flower, and they stock it, and somebody comes and takes it away. Don't stock. Therefore we have to follow this, that whatever money is coming, spend it for publication or for constructing temple. No account in the bank. Finish.

Jayādvaita: (break) ...is that no one can be contaminated by it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that blessing for them.

Jayādvaita: As soon as I have five dollars, I'm thinking that "Now I have five dollars. I can..."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayādvaita: I'm thinking, "Now I have five dollars. I can purchase something. What shall I buy?"

Prabhupāda: Why? If you don't require anything, why should you purchase? Don't create artificial demand. If you require to purchase something, then purchase. That is material civilization. "I don't require it; still I want it." Atyāhāra.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And practically... Eh?

Dr. Patel: We are killing the body and not... The soul is inkillable.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Don't go to the philosophy. First of all come to the practical. (Dr. Patel laughs) Come to the practical point of view, that after all, you have to eat; otherwise you cannot live. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam. So if you have to live another living entity, then how you can practice this ahiṁsā? Mean on the basic principle, the ahiṁsā paramo dharma, where is ahiṁsā? You have to kill. Either you kill vegetable or animal, you have to kill. Then where is the standing of ahiṁsā? That is my point.

Dr. Patel: When you kill purposelessly, without any useful...

Prabhupāda: No, no. No interpretation. They say that "no killing." So no killing is not possible. That is my point. Then where is the thesis stands, that "We are for not, no killing"?

Dr. Patel: Every action, sir, is, I mean, entangled in this.

Prabhupāda: So then our Vaiṣṇava's philosophy is perfect, because we take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. We don't say vegetables. We are not advocating vegetarianism. We are advocating that "You take Kṛṣṇa prasādam." How perfect it is. We are not so nonsense that "Because we have become vegetarian, we are perfect." The goats are vegetarian.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: For our personal comfort, we, our students are lying on the floor. They are not using the money for purchasing nice furniture. No personal comfort. But if you say that "You are purchasing big, big car," yes, for going quickly to serve Kṛṣṇa. Our service is main point. If I can go and serve Kṛṣṇa within a minute, why shall I wait for one hour? So we take all advantages. After all, it belongs to Kṛṣṇa. They say that "We have manufactured." That's all.... But we say that Kṛṣṇa has manufactured. So they.... This philosophy, it is little difficult to understand by the dull men, that nothing is without Kṛṣṇa. Everything.... Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Sarvam, when we say sarvam, how we can exclude this and that? Everything is in relationship with Kṛṣṇa, sarvam. Sarvam means everything. So how can you discriminate, "This is material; this is spiritual"? The discrimination is that when it is not used for Kṛṣṇa, that is material, and when it is used for Kṛṣṇa, that is spiritual. That is the explanation of sarvam. Just like a thief has stolen my money. The money will be utilized. He'll spend it. I am spending, and he is.... Then why he's criminal. If you plea.... If you present this plea that "Money's for spending, so either you spend or I spend...," but that is not the idea, that the money.... My money means the money should be spent for my purpose, and because you have taken the money and spending for your purpose, therefore you are criminal. That is the distinction between material and spiritual. Money, or everything, belongs to Kṛṣṇa. When it is utilized for Kṛṣṇa, this is spiritual, and when it is not utilized for Kṛṣṇa, that is material. Where is the difficulty to understand? You cannot say that "Yes, I have taken your money, so you are also spending. I am also spending. So why do you call me a criminal?" The answer will be: "Yes, you are not spending for me. You are spending for you. Therefore you are criminal." Is it very difficult to understand?

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Brian Singer: How do you treat.... In Australia mostly people are brought up in Christian religion. Do you treat...

Prabhupāda: Well, Christian religion.... We are not talking of religion. We are talking of science, fact. When I say that "You are young man. You'll become old man," either you are Christian or Hindu, Muslim, this is a fact. So don't bring in "The Christian believe this" or "Hindu believe this." Fact is fact. A child becomes a boy—a Christian believes; a Hindu believes; a Muslim believes. Everyone believes. So we are talking of the science. The child becomes a boy, a boy becomes a young man, young man becomes old man, and the old man, when this body becomes rotten, he accepts another body. So this is applicable for Bible or Christian or this or that, everyone.

Brian Singer: It's just different method of teaching.

Prabhupāda: No method. Same method. But if you say it, a different method, then we don't mind, but this is the subject matter of study. "Two plus two" is taught by the Christian and the Muslim, the Hindu. "Two plus two equal to four." There is no method of studying. The studying is the same. But if you take that "I'll read 'two plus two' in a Christian school," that is your choice. That's another thing. But wherever you go, "Two plus two equal to four," it is same. You call it Christian or Hindu or Muslim. That's your whims. Science is science. So we are preaching that "You are not this body; you are different from body." So it is equally necessary for the Christian, for the Hindu, for the Australian, for the American, for the African, everyone.

Brian Singer: What's.... What's the concept of...

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalam. He is asking very simple thing which everyone can offer. Just like a little leaf, patram, a little flower, puṣpam, a little fruit, and little liquid, either water or ghee, er, milk. So we offer that. We make different varieties with these ingredients, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26), and after Kṛṣṇa's eating, we take it. We are servant; we take the remnants of foodstuff left by Kṛṣṇa. We are neither vegetarian nor nonvegetarian. We are prasād-ian. We don't care for vegetable or not vegetable, because either you kill a cow or kill a vegetable, the sinful action is there. And according to nature's law, it is said that "The animals which has no hand, that is the food for the animals with hands." We are also animals with hands. We human being, we are also animal with hands, and they are animals—no hand but four legs. And there are animals which has no leg, that is vegetable. Apadāni catuṣ-padām. These animals which has no leg, they are food for the animals with four leg. Just like cow eats grass, the goat eats grass. So eating vegetable, there is no credit. Then the goats and the cows are more credit, have more credit, because they don't touch anything except vegetable. So we are not preaching to become goats and cows. No. We are preaching that you become servant of Kṛṣṇa. So whatever Kṛṣṇa eats, we eat. If Kṛṣṇa says that "Give me meat, give me eggs," so we shall offer Kṛṣṇa meat and eggs and we shall take it. So don't think that we are after vegetarian, nonvegetarian. No. That is not our philosophy. Because either you take vegetable or you take meat, you are killing. And you have to kill because otherwise you cannot live. That is nature's way.

Mr. Dixon: Yes.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Don't think we are vegetarian. We can become anything, provided it is eaten from the remnants of foodstuff left by Kṛṣṇa. This is our.... To become vegetarian.... There are many animals who are vegetarians. The monkeys are vegetarian; the goats are vegetarian; the cows are vegetarian. So that is not a good qualification, to become vegetarian and become an animal. Or to become lion, tiger, dog. So either you are vegetarian or meat-eater, there are many animals. So we are not going to be animals. We are going to become human being. This is our philosophy. Grouping ourself to the vegetarian kingdom or nonvege.... The animals.... The tiger is a great nonvegetarian. Fresh blood they want to eat, drink.

Mr. Dixon: Your Grace, do you keep in touch with the world through television or newspapers or the media?

Prabhupāda: Yes, many newspaper, many television men, they come. But we speak our philosophy plainly.

Mr. Dixon: Do you watch TV yourself?

Prabhupāda: No, we have no business. We don't wish to waste our time.

Mr. Dixon: Do you read newspapers?

Prabhupāda: No. What is newspaper? "This man is killed. This man has stolen. This politician has captured the government." So why shall I waste time?

Mr. Dixon: How do you become informed as to certain events? Is that...

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Guru-kṛpā: Yogi Bhajan.

Prabhupāda: So many. This tail, dog's tail. Either you become sannyāsī or gṛhastha or anything, the tail is this side. You may grease it as much as possible, but the whole tendency is sex, that's all, in different dresses only. The objective is sex. This is going on. Some of them are openly declaring that "I am for sex," and some of them showbottle. But the objective is sex. This is the whole world. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha (SB 7.9.45). And the sannyāsīs like Rajneesh, they are advocating, "This is life—sex. By sex indulgence you get salvation." These Brahma-kumārīs. Not brahmacārī but Brahma-kumārī. Kumārīs are available very easily. And they keep. And the rich men, they are supplied with nice, beautiful kumārīs. They pay money. This is going on. Brahma-kumārī. They enjoy and they invite the karmīs to enjoy and get money. Kumārī is there; money is there, that's all. Everywhere this is going on.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This just came from Los Angeles along with some other things. They're having an international yoga and meditation conference in Chicago in June, and Rāmeśvara was wanting to know if we should send some of our preachers there, try and have some kind of a booth or take part in it.

Prabhupāda: If it is possible.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: But that is not faith, that is rascaldom. If you have faith, you must abide by the religious process. If you don't follow, that means you have no faith.

Upendra: But sometimes we meet a rare soul who does follow, but because there's no mention of Kṛṣṇa in his scripture...

Prabhupāda: No, it is not the question of Kṛṣṇa religion.... If he believes in God and the God's word is religion, so he must follow the God's law. It doesn't matter. Kṛṣṇa is another name of God. But God is the same, one, either you call Kṛṣṇa, or Govinda, or this or that. Nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktiḥ. First of all, one must be faithful to God. That you may call God or Allah, it doesn't matter. But you must know what is God and what is faith to God, what is definition of God, what do you mean by "understand God." These things are required.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So that must become the practice of...

Prabhupāda: Practice is no question. We have to talk with science. Practice, you have practiced something which is against religion. That should not be taken.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's become the fashion of world...

Prabhupāda: Fashion? Your fashion, kick on the face! No fashion! (devotees laugh) It is a science. It is not the question of fashion, a false faith, belief. These are all rascals. Science is science. Two plus two equal to four. That's all. There is no question of "I have no faith in this. I say five!" That will not be accepted. Two plus two equal to four. It is neither five nor three. If that truth is there, then there is faith. "God is this, and sometimes God is this"—that is no understanding of God. You must have clear understanding of God.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: He's accepting eagerly Bhagavad-gītā if he's really follower of God. Because there is nothing extraordinary in the Bhagavad-gītā. It is the words actually for God to speak. You may call Kṛṣṇa or otherwise, but.... Just like sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). This can be said by God only. Otherwise who can say that "You give up everything; surrender unto Me"? It can be said by God only. Either you talk of Hindu or Muslim, but ask one that "If God says, 'You surrender unto...,' will you refuse?" Let him become Muslim or Christian. So nobody can refuse the order of God. That is faithfulness.

Guru-kṛpā: Śrīla Prabhupāda, why are there so many pseudo religions then?

Prabhupāda: There is no religion! This is the only religion.

Guru-kṛpā: Then why do they mingle at all? Why do they even get involved?

Prabhupāda: Therefore we say that one who has no faith in God, he's a rascal, miscreant.

Guru-kṛpā: But they pretend.

Prabhupāda: Pretend? Kick them! Why you should accept pretension? Then you are a fool also. You say "pretend," and still, you have to talk about them. That means you are also faithless. Why should you talk about the pretension? Pretension is pretension. That is faithlessness. Sometimes they pretend honest, but he's a thief. What is this philosophy? Thief is thief. That's all. (break) ...thoroughly the science of God. That is Bhagavad-gītā. The words which is spoken in the Bhagavad-gītā, that can be spoken only by God. Nobody else can speak like that. Who can say? Who has the right to say that "You surrender unto Me"? Nobody has right. Only God can say. That is God. (break)

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are suffering. Why don't you see that? Some of them dying by eating their own stool?

Devotee (2): Actually, at the end of his life, he (indistinct) some disease, and he went literally crazy.

Prabhupāda: Disease already there. Old age is already there. That means God is there. They're being punished, but they are so shameless they'll not accept the truth. Same thing. The (indistinct), they're being punished every moment, every step, "No, God is not there." All right. Wait a few years more, God will show either you are dead or He's dead. (laughing)

Hari-śauri: I saw this picture once that somebody had drawn. There's a man holding a sign saying "God is dead," and there's a big hand squashing him right on the floor, it's coming from the sky, it's squashing him on the floor, and his sign up on the side saying "God is dead."

Devotee (3): They say that actually there never was any God, it's just a belief that man had.

Devotee (2): ...revolutionary questions that you're asking because they never stop to ask... They say that you cannot accept any philosophy, why are they giving their philosophy? No one every thought to ask that question.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Everyone is rascal. Therefore I say all rascals. They have no sense. If you want me to pose your philosophy, why shall I not impose my philosophy? I've got the same right. Why should I accept yours?

Devotee (2): Philosophers are saying that there's no philosophy, but they're giving their philosophy.

Prabhupāda: If there's no philosophy, why you rascal propose some philosophy? Stop talking. (everyone laughs)

Devotee (3): No philosophy.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible.

Rāmeśvara: That's all there is in life, is service.

Prabhupāda: Now we are sitting, so many gentlemen. He's having some paper, and you are serving God. The service is there. Nobody can say, "No, I don't serve anyone." Is there any man? No. That is not possible. You must serve. Constitutionally, you are meant for service, either you are president of the state or is anything. That is your position. That is the beginning of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). All living entities are eternal servant of God.

Ambarīṣa: And all service is the same?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Ambarīṣa: All service is the same?

Devotee (1): No. He says, "All service is the same."

Prabhupāda: How can it be? All service is the same? Do you think...

Ambarīṣa: Everybody serves in their own way, but it's all...

Prabhupāda: That is.... Unless you come to the service of God, it is wrong.

Devotee (2): I think he's asking, "But if it is service to God, then in God's eyes, all service to Him."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Nobody can answer. They simply falsely argue. Therefore less intelligent. Mūḍha. If he was intelligent, then he would immediately accept the Kṛṣṇa's teachings, beginning with dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). On account of the soul, the body is changing, kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. The body is sometimes child, sometimes boy, sometimes young man, sometimes old man, sometimes diseased, sometimes healthy. All these terms are there on account of presence of the soul. If the soul is not there, then it is simply a lump of matter, and it is going to decompose into matter again, and then it will smell, either you have to throw it for being eaten by the vultures or you can bury it under some ceremony or you can burn it. Three.... What is called? Pariṇamanam. Transformations. Either as stool or as ash or as earth. Those who are burying, the bodies gradually becomes earth; those who are throwing, the vultures eat, the jackals, dogs eat and it turns into stool; and those who are burning, it turns into ashes. Three transformations. This beautiful body.

Nalinīkaṇṭha: Some people would say, "If everything is a creation of God, then why do you have such a..., why do you present this body as such a horrible thing?"

Prabhupāda: You wanted this body. Therefore you have got this body. You wanted. Just like a child asks the father, "Give me this dress." Father gives him, "All right, take this dress." You wanted a certain type of body. Just like the surfers. They want a body like fish. Therefore they are so much anxious to swim. So father will give him next body a fish.

Rāmeśvara: He was saying that some people criticize us that we are saying this is God's creation, yet we are always speaking of it in a very bad way.

Prabhupāda: Very bad way?

Trivikrama: The bad way is also the mercy of the Lord to help us realize that...

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Thank you. So here in the material world happiness means sense gratification, that's all. So Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "The happiness of sense gratification, obtainable in any form of life..." The birds, beasts, human beings or even the demigods, cats, dogs—everyone has got the happiness of sense gratification, namely eating, sleeping, sex and defense. That is obtainable everywhere. But the spiritual happiness, that is obtainable in human form of life. Therefore the human being from childhood... Kaumāra ācaret prajño dharmān bhāgavatān iha (SB 7.6.1). From the very beginning of childhood. Why so early? Durlābhaṁ manusam janma. This human form of life is obtained after many, many births' evolutionary process. And adhruvam. There is no certainty that I shall live so many years. Although it is estimated that one is expected to live for at least hundred years—that is estimation—but at the present moment at least, nobody is living up to that. So even there is such indication, still, there is no guarantee. We can die at any moment. Adhruvam, but arthadam. Although it is adhruvam—there is no guarantee—but whatever period we get, we can utilize it for the best purpose. Arthadam. We can gain the ultimate goal of life, arthadam. That is... He is giving stress. Arthadam means spiritual realization. That is arthadam. Otherwise we remain like animals. The animal has also sense gratification process: how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex and how to defend. So sukham aindriyakaṁ daitya. He is addressing his friends as daitya, "sons of the demons." He is addressing his father as "best of the demons." (laughs) There are two classes of men: deva and asura. Dvau bhūta-sargau loke daiva asura eva ca (BG 16.6). In this material world there are... (aside:) Why not Dr. Wolfe may come here, bring his chair here? You can sit down there. You can bring your chair. So this sense gratification is available. Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ yat. These are called viṣaya. Viṣaya means sense enjoyment. So viṣayaḥ sarvataḥ syāt. In any form of life these four principles are there. Eating arrangement is there. (aside:) Come on. Sleeping arrangement is there. The bird, he is not anxious about eating, sleeping, mating. It is already there. He has got a nest above the tree. At night he is very safe and sleeping nicely. And in the morning, he knows, somewhere there is some fruit, he'll get his food. He's not anxious. He goes anywhere. And for mating, the male and female bird are always together. The pigeons, they are having every hour, four times, five times, mating. So that arrangement is always there. And defense? They are on the ground. As soon as there is some man, immediately they go up, defense. So they know, everyone knows, how to enjoy this viṣaya-eating, sleeping, mating and defending. So the śāstra says, viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. "These four principles of necessities of the body are available anywhere." Either you are born as a human being or a cat or a dog or a bird or beast or demigod, these are available. So we should not bother about these things. The arrangement is already there. By the grace of God, things are already there.

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So, is there any question about this statement?

Arnold Weiss: Yes. What originally caused us to lose our relationship with Lord Kṛṣṇa? I understand it is due to our desires, but how is this desire manifest?

Prabhupāda: Relationship is not lost. Just like you... Either you are in the prison house or you are in the kingdom of the state, your relationship with government is there. It does not mean that when you are put into the prison house to suffer, it does not mean you have lost relationship, is it that?

Arnold Weiss: Yes, but why are we in the prison house?

Prabhupāda: This is the cause: because you are criminal, you are put into the prison house, but the relationship continues.

Arnold Weiss: What have we done to make ourselves criminals?

Prabhupāda: What you have done, you are put into prison?

Arnold Weiss: No, but what have we done to make ourselves criminals? What criminal acts have we performed?

Prabhupāda: That you might have forgotten. Because your nature is to forget, you cannot immediately remember what you are doing exactly this time yesterday. That is your... You have forgotten, but suppose you, without any knowledge, you do something criminal. So you must be punished. You may not know. You cannot say in the court that "I did not know by committing this act I'll be punished." So you know or not know. You have done it; you must be punished. You may not know what you have done, but that does not mean you can avoid punishment.

Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...can have so many engagements. Simply by making dress, we remain Kṛṣṇa conscious. Simply by cooking, we remain Kṛṣṇa conscious. Simply by cleansing the floor, we remain Kṛṣṇa conscious. Easiest method. Everyone can remain Kṛṣṇa conscious in any circumstance. Ahaituky apratihatā. It is not condition that "You have to become like this; then you'll become Kṛṣṇa conscious." No. In whatever position you are, you become Kṛṣṇa conscious. No extra intelligence required. Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārjanādau **. Either you dress the Deity or you cleanse the floor of the temple, the same thing. You get the result the same. Tan-mandira-mārjanādau. Anything you do. Somebody is cleansing, somebody is chanting, somebody is cooking, somebody is printing, somebody is selling books—everything is Kṛṣṇa conscious. And that is the best yoga. Sa me yuktatamo mataḥ. Yoginām api sarveṣām: (BG 6.47) "Of all the yogis, who is thinking of Me, always in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is the topmost yogi." "By meditation I am trying to become God. By meditation one can become God." This is their foolish theory. Kṛṣṇa, when He exhibited His godly power at the age of three months, where was meditation? (laughs) God is always God. You cannot become by meditation God. You can become godly; that is possible.

Hari-śauri: People become very enamored by this mystic display. You were speaking about mystic power, and peo...

Prabhupāda: Four annas. (laughter) For four annas I'll have to try for four hundred years. Why mystic power? To show some jugglery—"How I can fly in the sky, I can walk on the water"—by this mystic power, they create amazement and become imitation God. Imitation God you can become, but you cannot become real God. That is not possible. That is warned. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). That's all. Asamaurdhva: "Nobody equal to Me; nobody better than Me." So why should you waste your time to become God? You cannot become actually. So why should you waste your time? Remain servant. Then you're actually.... Get this light. No, no that, inside. You can give me little pineapple juice. Is it possible?

Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Grown, or it is changed? The same thing. But that child, that body, is no more existing. Is it not?

Jay Warner: Yes, it is gone.

Prabhupāda: The body may vanquish, but you are going through. That is incarnation. The child body is vanquished; it is no more existing. Either you say grow or I may say it has changed, that body is finished. Is it not?

Jay Warner: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But you are still existing.

Jay Warner: I still feel that I am myself.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means you were in the child body and you are in this young man's body. So you are existing, but the body has changed. What is the difficulty to understand?

Jay Warner: Where is it difficult to answer?

Devotees: (all at once) What is the difficulty to understand?

Prabhupāda: You are.... When the child's body, that body, is no more existing, you are in a different body.

Jay Warner: The difficulty for me reaches the moment, retroactively, before the moment of birth, or past the moment of death. How can one come to have faith that there is life after one leaves his body?

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Everywhere.

Jagadīśa: Is it because they are killing the cows that this is happening, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: So many things. In India there is no.... At least gentlemen, they do not eat meat. But the thing is that when there is fire, so everyone will suffer. If there is fire in this building, either you are sinful or not sinful, the effects will be shared by you.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (showing Prabhupāda newspaper) There was one newspaper at the Indian Embassy printed in Canada, it's called The Indian Calling. On the back page they have one supplement they took from Back to Godhead magazine.

Prabhupāda: It is ours?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. This is printed by the Indian community, one man, Anand Singh, and he included part of an article from the Back to Godhead magazine. There's one article in here also, the front page is a whole.... There's a racket they had going, these people, this man. He went to India and he found one widow, and he said, "I am a personal friend of the Prime Minister of Canada. Give me money, I'll take you to Canada. You can come. I'll make sure you get immigration status." So she came with him to Canada, and then he started blackmailing her, "Give me this much money every day, otherwise I'll reveal that you're an illegal immigrant, and you'll be in trouble with the government." And eventually it became such a burden that he simply killed her, cut her into three pieces and killed her. Then they found parts of different bodies like this, and they finally found the man.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: So we have to come to that point, how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That is nature's way, pulling by the ear: "Come here, do this." Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). This will go on as long as you are not agreeing to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, there is no infringement by māyā. (break) (Bengali) You understand Bengali? So the process is going on by the laws of nature to give us different types of trouble. The main trouble is janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). It will go on unless we surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Better surrender in this life and be perfect; then things are all right. And what is the benefit of our so-called independence? If we declare that we are independent of the laws of nature, is it possible? Is it possible? Then where is your independence? Why you are declaring falsely independence? If you declare yourself independent of God, then you become dependent on māyā. Just like the criminals. They don't care for the laws of the government. They become under the laws of the prison house, that's all. There is no question of independence. Either you remain free or in the prison house, you are under the laws of government. So why falsely declaring independent and don't care for the government? Outlaws. That is called māyā-false prestige which is not possible.

Guest (1): Swamiji, you came to New York, I believe, in 1965. Can you remember some of your first impressions of North American society when you came here? Did you feel it was ripe for Kṛṣṇa consciousness at that time?

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That mercy depends on Him. You cannot dictate Him. If I am merciful, that will depend on me, whether I can show you mercy or I can condemn you. That is, depends on me. Simply on the basis of "God is merciful," I can do all unlawful things, this is not practical proposal. Merciful means it depends on me. Whether I shall show mercy or I shall be very strong and strict, that is my will, freedom. I may show you mercy, I may not show. You cannot force me, that "You must become merciful." That is not right. God is really merciful. Otherwise, how He's supplying this... In the morning if a fog, so God mercifully has asked sun, "Now give them some sunlight." So we are enjoying. He is merciful. When there is sunshine you see the sinful man and the pious man, both enjoy. That is His mercy. When he bestows His mercy, it is for all of them, either you are sinner or you are pious. That is God's mercy. Just like the cloud when it pours water, it does not make any discrimination. On the sea, there is also rainfall; on the rocks also, there is rainfall, where there is no necessity of rain. Therefore where is necessity of rainfall on rock? What is the use? There is no use. It is simply waste. So God also wastes: "All right, you take. You don't require; you also take." In the ocean there is no need of water, but when... The cloud pours water on the ocean also. Only on the land we can utilize, but God is so merciful, exactly like the raincloud, He is so merciful, where there is no necessity they are also getting rain, "Take rain." That is merciful. Without any discrimination, whether you want or not want, "Take it." That is mercy. You can show your mercy when there is scarcity water—you can bring some tanks of water from other places and put here—but how long you'll do it? But when the God is merciful, He'll pour rain so in large quantity that everyone will benefit. That is God's greatness. You'll have to spend so much money, labor, to bring a few buckets of water from other place. Beyond that, you cannot do anything. But God is so powerful, so great, that within a twinkling of, within a few minutes only, immediately He can overcast with cloud and overflood the whole tract of land.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So what is that? Find out tatas canudinam.

Pradyumna: Tatas cānudinaṁ satyaḥ, dharmaḥ satyaṁ śaucaṁ kṣama daya.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Find that verse. You can quote that "This Kali-yuga it is waning; therefore they are becoming animals." Man without religion means animals. That's all. This is the definition. In the human society, either you become Christian or you become Mohammedan or you become a Hindu or you become Buddhist. It doesn't matter. There must be some system of religion. That is human society. And human society without religion—animal society. This is plain fact. So why people are unhappy now? Because there is no religion. They are neglecting religion. That one gentleman, he has written me that Tolstoy said that "Unless one dynamite is put underneath a church, there cannot be any peace." That means they want... The Russians, the Communists, they are very strict against God consciousness. Because they think so, that this religion has spoiled the whole social atmosphere. It might have been misused, religious system. That does not mean that religion should be avoided. Real religion should be taken. Because religion has not been properly executed by the so-called priest, it does not mean that religion should be rejected. My eye is giving some trouble on account of cataract, but that doesn't mean eye should be plucked out. The cataract should be removed. So that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. They have no conception of God, and they are preaching religion. What is that religion? That will be misused. Religion means dharmaṁ tu sāksād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Religion means God's order. If there is no God, where is religion? This is going on. They have no conception of God. What is God they do not know, and professing some religion.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Smṛti means... The Vedas are considered as, taken as śruti. But simply by hearing one cannot understand. Therefore smṛtis, they have explained. Purayati iti purāṇa. Complete. The Vedic mantra is not always understood. Just like the Vedānta mantra, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). This is very short cut. But Bhāgavata explains, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ. Explanation. The smṛti is explanation. So either you take śruti or smṛti, subject matter is the same. But these are the evidences. Śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-pāñcarātriki-vidhiṁ vinā (BRS 1.2.101). You cannot be purified or become actually God conscious without reference to the śruti-smṛti. We are pushing on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, it is not whimsically. It is based on śruti-smṛti-pāñcarātriki-vidhi. Therefore it is becoming effective.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is it necessary from time to time to change the smṛtis?

Prabhupāda: That cannot be changed.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Smṛti cannot be changed?

Prabhupāda: Nothing can be changed. But according to the time you have to... Just like in Kali-yuga the smṛti order is kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51). So you have to do this. Just like a physician gives a medicine that "Morning you take this medicine, in the evening you take this medicine." It is not a change of treatment. It is according to the time a different medicine. But it is recommended by the physician, not by your whims. Śruti-smṛti cannot be changed, but they have recommended different process in different times. So the reference to the śruti-smṛti is there, authority is there. It is... You cannot modify.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So that is not possible in this... Taking consideration of the time, circumstances, it is not possible. There are different kinds of karma-kāṇḍīya-yajña. It is expensive also and there is no expert brāhmaṇa to guide how to perform this yajña. So Kali-yuga, it is not possible to perform yajñas. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ (SB 12.3.52). In the Treta-yuga yajñas were possible. Dvāpare paricaryāyāṁ kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt, that in this age of Kali-yuga the real yajña is hari-kīrtana. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32). Therefore those who are intelligent, having good brain substance, they take to this yajña, saṅkīrtana-yajña. And practically we are experiencing, simply by saṅkīrtana-yajña, even the lowest person in the sinful activities, he is becoming purified. So karma-kāṇḍa is, to revive them in this age is not possible. Neither jñāna-kanda. That is also not possible. People are so fool and rascal that it is impossible. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said... He has condemned karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa. Even it is properly done. Karma-kāṇḍa, by performing ritualistic ceremonies of karma-kāṇḍa, you can go to the heavenly planet. But what is the benefit there? You can enjoy there materialistic way of life in higher standard. That's all. You can live for a very, very long duration of period. But that does not mean that you become immortal. The demigods, they are called amara. Amara means they have got very long duration of life. Does not mean he is immortal. So by karma-kāṇḍa you can elevate yourself to the higher planetary system. Even it is properly done... And now it is not possible to do it properly. And even it is properly done, that is condemned. It is not required. Similarly jñāna-kāṇḍa. Even it is properly done... You can merge yourself into the Brahman effulgence. But that is also not safe because in the śāstra we see that arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Even one merges oneself into the impersonal Brahman, he again falls down. Patanty adhaḥ. We have seen practical, in India many sannyāsīs, they elevate themselves by jñāna-kāṇḍa, but because they cannot stay, they again come to the karma-kāṇḍa, philanthropy activities and hospitals and schools. That is their fall down. So either in karma-kāṇḍa or jñāna-kāṇḍa you cannot achieve the real purpose of life. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has said, karma-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa sakali visera bandha. Either you accept karma-kāṇḍa or jñāna-kanda, they're different pots of poison. Amṛta boliya jeba khai.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, mahājana there is in Christian messiahs. There is mahājana. And later on, after Christ, there was so many other. Saint Matthew, Saint Thomas, like that. Mahājana is mentioned there. How can you say there is no mahājana? Mahājana means who is strictly following the original religion. That is called mahājana. Or who know the things as they are. They are called mahājana. And that means paramparā system. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna is learning Bhagavad-gītā directly from Kṛṣṇa. He's mahājana. So you learn from Arjuna. And after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, as Arjuna acted, as Arjuna understood Kṛṣṇa, you follow that. Then mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Then you are following the mahājana. You are on the real path. Just like we are. Here it is said, mahājana, Svāyambhu. Svāyambhu means Brahmā, Lord Brahmā. So our, this sampradāya, Gauḍīya sampradāya, is Brahma-sampradāya. And Svāyambhu, Nārada. Nārada is also in the brahma-sampradāya. And Śambhu, Lord Śiva, he is also mahājana. He has got his sampradāya, Rudra-sampradāya. And similarly, Śrī-sampradāya. So all these sampradāya we must follow. Sampradāya vihina ye mantras te niṣphala mataḥ. If you do not belong to sampradāya, mahājana, then you are useless. You cannot concoct any religious system. So either you be Christian or Hindu it doesn't matter. You have to follow the mahājana. If a Christian says, "I don't believe in St. Thomas," what kind of Christian he is? Similarly, it doesn't matter who is a mahā... But real mahājana is he who is strictly following the principle as enunciated by God. That is religious system. Otherwise there is no religion. There is no question of religion. It is simply concoction. Mano-dharmi, mental speculator. Mental speculation is not religion. Religion is the order of Kṛṣṇa and one who follows that order, he is religious. That's all.

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, you did not want; you have it—against your will. This is your experience. There is no difference. Either you say material cause or spiritual cause, but you are suffering what you did not want. That is the point. You are suffering. And you did not want it. Yathā duḥkham ayatnataḥ. Nobody wants distress, but it comes. How it comes? Yathā duḥkham ayatnataḥ, Prahlāda Mahārāja... Ayatnataḥ means without any endeavoring. Who is trying that "Let there be fire in my house"? But it takes. Nobody wants that "There may be fire in my house," but there is fire. Therefore you have to arrange for fire brigade. You are expecting always some danger. Therefore you make so many precautions, because you know that although you do not want mishappening, it will come. Nobody endeavors for mishappenings, but you know there is some superior force who'll enforce mishappening. And they are unable to counteract. Just like a scientist knows that he'll die, but he's so expert scientist that he cannot counteract. He knows that he'll die. He's talking all nonsense while living, but he does not make any arrangement that he'll not die. That he is unable. They are making arrangement, going to the Mars planet at the expense of taxpayer, so if we request these rascal scientists that "You discover something so that we will not die. Take any amount of money," will they able?

Rādhāvallabha: They'll die while they are trying to find out.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that petrol. But what was the purpose? The purpose was little sense gratification, "I shall see something illuminating." What was other purpose? No purpose. Simply to satisfy the eyes, to see something illuminating. That is one sense, eyes. Then there are other senses. They also want satisfaction. There are hands, there are legs, there are tongue, eyes, ears, nose. So every one, every one of these senses, they are engaged for sense satisfaction. So this is the life. But that sense satisfaction is differently exhibited for different bodies. Just like this firework, it was interesting to the human being. Human being has got a particular type of body, so it is interested to see the firework. But the cats and dogs, they are not interested. They do not know what is fireworks. They, while we are interested to see the firework, a hog may be interested to eat stool. If he gets some stool somewhere, he'll be interested, than to see the firework. So because he has got a different body, he's interested differently. We are human beings, we are interested differently. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja rightly said, deha-yogena dehinām. This sense gratification, varieties, according to the varieties of the body. Deha-yogena dehinām. But this is arranged, this different process of sense gratification is arranged daivāt, by the superior arrangement. Daivāt. Sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha-yogena dehinām, sarvatra labhyate daivāt. By the superior arrangement everywhere it is available. Either you become Lord Brahmā or you become a small ant, the process of sense gratification, arrangement is there. (aside) You can come forward.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Everything is glorification of Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee (3): Whenever Kṛṣṇa is mentioned in the Vedas, He's mentioned as the Supreme. Some people, some scholars say, "Well, so many other demigods are mentioned far more often than Kṛṣṇa, but Kṛṣṇa's mentioned to be the supermost. From the Atharva Veda, (Sanskrit). "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme."

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). Either you accept this Kṛṣṇa's statement, or you reject Kṛṣṇa. But He says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). What do you want more?

Guest: Well, Prabhupādajī, if anyone has gone to Gītā and if he is still bothered by the historical evidence, I don't think he has read Gītā.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: So we should never really be bothered by this question of historical...

Prabhupāda: Therefore we have concentrated on Gītā. This movement—when I registered this association, so when I wrote "Kṛṣṇa consciousness," some friend said, "Why don't you write 'God consciousness'?" But no, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are particularly preaching Kṛṣṇa's teaching. Kṛṣṇa is God, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). But if you think that there is another God then you may do your business. We are concerned with Kṛṣṇa. That's all. We cannot allow any interpretation of Kṛṣṇa. That is our (indistinct). (aside:) Yes?

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Then his proposal is failure. Now you have to take the instruction in the Vedas, that

kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ

tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ

dvāpare paricaryāyāṁ

kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt

(SB 12.3.52)

In the Kali-yuga, the real yajña is hari-kīrtana. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prayair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ. Sumedhasaḥ, those who have got good brain, they perform this yajña, hari-kīrtana. So there is no condition. God has give you the tongue. Either you are here or there, you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prayair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ.

Indian lady: Is number important in chanting? It has to be certain number, or you can just chant?

Prabhupāda: Number? Yes, of course, no. Actually, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). Always to be chanted. But because you cannot do that, therefore you must fix up a number. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka, that "I must chant so many times." That is determination. I have prescribed to my disciples that "You must chant at least sixteen rounds." That is very easy. But there is saṅkhyā. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ. The Gosvāmīs, they used to do that. So it is; otherwise, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. The chanting should go on twenty-four hours. Just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura used to do. He was simply chanting. But that is not possible for ordinary man. Therefore they should have a fixed up, that "I must chant so many times." That will fix up the determination. Bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ. There must be some dṛḍha-vratāḥ, that "I must do it." Then the devotion grows very firm. If we become lenient, "All right, I shall do later on..." No, must be done. Dṛḍha-vratāḥ. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). Dṛḍha-vratāḥ. Everything should be determined. Then spiritual progress will be rapid.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: No, he is better than king. King, he eats whatever is offered to him, but they can eat whatever they like. Is it not? Who is restricting them? (aside:) You can open that. Just stand towards there. Yes.

Hari-śauri: Is that, cutting the cake, is that a Vedic..., did they used to do that in Vedic times, or is that a Western invention? We were just wondering about it.

Prabhupāda: Prasāda distribution. Either you cut or take with hand, the same thing. It doesn't make any difference.

Rūpānuga: On the cake it was marked on one side 1966, on the other side 1976. Like a coin. They make coins celebrating, commemorating.

Prabhupāda: And the cake is made very nicely. Who has made it?

Vṛṣākapi: This one girl, her name is Lalitā-sakhī. She stayed up all night.

Rūpānuga: And then it was decorated by Ambujākṣa, who is an artist.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Again he can make choice whether he goes to higher planetary system or lower planetary system or back to Godhead. Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25). He makes his choice. This is an opportunity. And the instruction is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, whether you want again go to the higher planetary system, demigod's residence, yānti deva-vratā devān. Or you want to remain here, bhūtejyāḥ. Or you want to go down. Or you want to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is your selection. Make your selection. So you can do. Either you go again to this human form of life. This opportunity is there. If you want you can go again to the higher planetary system, live there for so many years, and again when your resultant action of pious activities is finished, you again come and become a grass, and again begin... This is going on. But where is the science to understand how the process is going on? Therefore people are kept in ignorance. They have dismissed the idea, that there is no life after death, that's all. (guest leaving) There is no education. They are kept in ignorance. That is the problem, risky civilization, that people are kept in dark ignorance about the problems of the life. They do not know. They are struggling from the beginning of life, but they do not know what is the problem of life. Neither they have any information what are all these different planets, how they are being used, who are using them. They have no information. They are making a show of going to the moon planet, Mars planet, useless attempt. And presenting some photograph from Arizona. That is going on.

Mr. Boyd: Can I ask a question? Am I to understand that women cannot go back to Godhead without being reincarnated to the male?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, it's a fact. If you work as a brāhmaṇa, if you are thinking yourself as a brāhmaṇa, then you act as brāhmaṇa. You cannot act as a śūdra. As a brāhmaṇa you cannot accept anyone's service, then you become śūdra. You deviate from your own position. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, they'll never accept anyone's service, only the śūdra. Paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). When you live at the mercy of others, this is called dog's business. Just like a dog lives at the mercy of the master. So it is strictly prohibited for the brāhmaṇas. Even in very difficult position, you can act as a kṣatriya, you can act as a vaiśya, but never accept the position of a dog, a śūdra. This is the injunction. Sve sve karmaṇi, you stick to your own business. If you claim as a brāhmaṇa, then you must act as a brāhmaṇa. Then you'll become successful. You cannot remain a brāhmaṇa and accept the business of a dog, that is not sve sve karmaṇi. So everything, what is stated there in the Bhagavad-gītā, that is perfect. People at the present moment, they are living at the mercy of others. That is dog's business. Therefore (in) the śāstra it is said kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In the Kali-yuga everyone is a śūdra. There is no brāhmaṇa, no kṣatriya, no vaiśya. That is generally accepted. Because at the present moment education means to get some service. What is the value of that education? If you become dependent on others, then what is the value of this education? Therefore kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Everyone is a śūdra. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement says striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrāḥ: (BG 9.32) never mind, even if you are śūdra, take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you'll become perfect. Either you become woman or vaiśya or śūdra, it doesn't matter, or any other pāpa-yoni, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ, te 'pi yānti parām (BG 9.32). So this is the most liberal movement, that it doesn't matter what you are, if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness then you become perfect. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). He's on the Brahman platform, above all these different modes of material nature. These brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, these are differences on the material platform. But when you come to the spiritual platform, there is no such difference. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18).

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, you act as a brahmacārī, do your brahmacārī work, you'll be successful.

Guest (3): But how do I know that I am thinking properly?

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say it is mentioned in the śāstra, brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). If you want to be a lawyer, you must know the law. Without knowing the law, how you become a lawyer? Without knowing the engineering art, how you become engineer? So either you become a brahmacārī, gṛhastha or vānaprastha, sannyāsī, or anything, you must know what you are meant for. Without knowing, how you can become brahmacārī?

Guest (3): I must know what I am meant for.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (3): But that's what my question is, how does one know.

Prabhupāda: Then you have to go to the... Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Just like we were discussing Sanātana Gosvāmī, he has gone to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he said, "Sir, You have brought me from the entanglement of family life. Now tell me what is my duty." So that discussion is going on. So you should approach guru and take instruction from him what is, how to act. If you want to act as a brahmacārī, he'll give you direction, "You do this." If you want to act as a gṛhastha, he'll give you direction, "You do like this." That is wanted. The guru, the parents, the government, they should guide.

Guest (3): But it says that if I follow another person's occupation, even if I do it better than my own occupation, that is not as good as following what I ought to be doing.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is also sin. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that whatever you eat, bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt (BG 3.13). Anyone is cooking something, meat or vegetables, for his own eating, he is eating only sin. It is not that the vegetarians are not sinful and the meat-eaters are sinful. Everyone is sinful if it is not cooked for Kṛṣṇa. It is not that we are propagating that you become vegetarian. We are propagating that you become Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our propaganda. But because we are trying to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, we offer something to Kṛṣṇa. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). So not patraṁ puṣpam, whatever within this group available, fruits, flowers, grains, milk, so we offer to Kṛṣṇa. Yajña. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). If you do not perform yajña, then you will be bound up by the resultant action. So this is yajña, to offer to Kṛṣṇa. Yajña means to satisfy Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu-ārādhyate. Yajña means satisfy Kṛṣṇa. But if you don't Kṛṣṇa's prasādam, then you are sinful. Not that if you become vegetarian, then you are not sinful. Not that. Because you have to eat something. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. Either you eat vegetable or meat, you have to eat something. So somebody prefers eating animals, and somebody prefers eating vegetables, but all of them have got life. Therefore you cannot kill any life. So if you eat for yourself, then you are simply eating sin. Bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt. But if you take Kṛṣṇa prasādam, then if there is any sin, it goes to Kṛṣṇa, you take pure prasādam. And Kṛṣṇa is apāpa-vidham. So our duty is to worship Kṛṣṇa and offer Him so many nice things—fruits, flowers, grains, milk, milk preparation. We are doing that. You are taking prasādam. So that is our business. Is it clear, your answer?

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: We are interested in eating Kṛṣṇa prasādam. If Kṛṣṇa says "Give Me meat," we shall give Him. But He does not say. He says patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). Meat-eating is sinful, that's a fact, amedha, tāmasika, but if you remain in the darkness of ignorance, you cannot improve your spiritual life. Tāmasika. It is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, rājasika, tāmasika, sāttvika. Therefore we should eat sāttvika, and that is also after offering to Kṛṣṇa. Then we are free from all sinful reactions. And if you want to implicate yourself in sinful activities, then you can eat whatever you like. But either you eat meat or vegetables, if it is eaten for my satisfaction of the tongue, you become implicated in sinful activities, and you have to suffer the reaction. The animal you are killing, he'll kill also you next life. Then you become bound up.

Indian man (6): I have one question. Though there is mention, in earlier times, we see also used to eat meat.

Prabhupāda: When?

Indian man (6): Aśvamedha-yajña, all these things, and before that...

Prabhupāda: That is now prohibited.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: No, I say...

Interviewer: To the ability to speak. Now, how is your path or your way different from (or) better than others?

Prabhupāda: No, but there is no question of "better than others." It is the only thing.

Interviewer: It is the only way?

Prabhupāda: Only thing. It is not the question of better or superior. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness means God consciousness. So either you are Chinese or English or American, there is consciousness. When that consciousness is purified, that is God consciousness.

Interviewer: Yes. But is your way the only way?

Prabhupāda: No, that is only way. Because God is one and God consciousness is one, so when you are Chinese consciousness, that is foreign. Or either American consciousness, it is foreign.

Interviewer: Okay, I was speaking in an analogical way. There are different way to express oneself or different languages one can learn. Similarly, I would think there would be different ways to get to consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Different ways may be, but if you actually come to that consciousness, that different way is approved. Otherwise it is bogus.

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: There is no difference between... Just like... It has been explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Just like one candle, then you kindle another candle, then you kindle another, another, another, another. So you say, "This is first, this is second, this is third, this is fourth..." But so far candle power is concerned, they are all the same. Either you take first or the second or the third, so far the candle power is concerned, that is all the same. Still, you have to say, "This is first, this is second, that is third, this is fourth..."

Indian man: I was trying to... I was trying...

Prabhupāda: So God and His different expansions, they are of same power. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu, kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo... (Bs. 5.39).

Indian man: Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **.

Prabhupāda: So He is existing with all the incarnations, rāmādi-mūrtiṣu. So Rāma is not less than Kṛṣṇa, but He is incarnation. This is the conclusion.

Indian man: Because I was trying to refer to Govindāṣṭakam, Where it says, (sings) śrī kṛṣṇa rādhā āra gokuleśa gopāla govardhana-nātha viṣṇu, jīveti amṛtamedhadevo govindaṁ dāmodaram ada vetti(?). He's saying, śrī kṛṣṇa rādhā āra gokuleśa gopāla govardhana-nātha viṣṇu. That is what I was trying to see that is really... I know that say Kṛṣṇa's expansion is Mahā-Viṣṇu, but still, why do they say govardhana-nātha viṣṇu? That I was trying to understand. Please don't misunderstand me.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Our religion is science. As we, when we speak, that a child grows a boy, it is science, it is not religion. Every child grows to become a boy. Where is the question of religion? Every man dies. Where is the question of religion? And when a man dies, the body is useless. So where is the question of religion? It is science, it is science. Either you Christian or Hindu or Muslim, when you die your body's useless. This is science. You cannot say that "We are Christian. Now the body is dead. Now we don't consider it as dead. We believe it is not dead." No, it is dead. Either you are Christian or Hindu or Muslim, it is dead, it is useless. So when we speak, we speak on this basis, that the body is important—it doesn't matter whether it is Christian body or Hindu body or Muslim body—so long the soul is there. When the soul is not there, it is useless. It is applicable to everyone.

Mike Robinson: I think I'm beginning to get, if you could explain, a bit confused. What I'd like you to explain is...

Prabhupāda: We are trying to educate people on this basis.

Mike Robinson: But that's, if I understand you correctly, you seem to be educating people on a purely scientific basis.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mike Robinson: So where does religion come into it at all?

Prabhupāda: Religion means also science. But they have taken religion as faith, "I believe." Religion means, actually, religion means.... Just like in the dictionary you find what is the religion...

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is happening in Japan and other places. They put, and when the obnoxious smell comes, they open it and they find. Mother has become so kind. They put in a box and lock it up.

Hari-śauri: Airport lockers.

Prabhupāda: These are happening. But when you talk of that "You learn how to become brahmacārī," that they will refuse. This is the position. The aftereffect is very, very bad, either you get legally or illegally. Legally, we have to raise the children very nicely. Otherwise, they will, unwanted children, create so much trouble. You have to take care for their proper education, of their clothes.(?) We say, "Never mind, you have got children, give them proper education, make them devotees, make their life successful." We cannot say that "You kill them." That we cannot say. That is not possible. Neither we can pack them in the, what is that box?

Hari-śauri: Lockers.

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is not possible for us. We welcome. But we must be well organized to utilize these poor souls for becoming first-class devotees. That should be done. Otherwise, sex life and the by-product, that is always troublesome, either you take this way or that way, it is troublesome. If it is not troublesome, why they are killing their own children? To avoid trouble. This is psychology. They want to avoid trouble. But our process is, if you want to avoid trouble, then don't marry, remain brahmacārī. If you cannot, then, all right, have legal wife, get children and raise them very nicely, make them Vaiṣṇavas, take the responsibility. So we are organizing this society, we welcome. Some way or other we shall arrange for shelter. But to take care of the children, to educate them, that will depend on their parents. Now our Pradyumna was complaining that in the Gurukula, his child was not educated to count one, two, three, four. So I have told him that "You educate your child. Let the mother educate in English, and you educate him in Sanskrit." Who can take care? So similarly every father, mother should take care that in future they may not be a batch of unwanted children. We can welcome hundreds and thousands of children. There is no question of economic problem. We know that. But the father, mother must take care at least. Properly trained up, they should be always engaged. That is brahmacārī gurukula. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). From the very beginning they should be trained up. From the body, they should be trained up how to take bath, how to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa or some Vedic mantra, go to the temple, offer obeisances, prayer, then take their lunch... In this way, they should be always engaged. Then they'll be trained up. Simple thing. We don't want to train them as big grammarians. No. That is not wanted. That anyone, if he has got some inclination, he can do it personally. There is no harm. General training is that he must be a devotee, a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That should be introduced. Otherwise, the gurukula will be... Otherwise Jyotirmayī was suggesting the biology.

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: So show the simple example that how by simple living and thinking of Kṛṣṇa, one can become perfect and happy.

Hari-śauri: People's minds are so much agitated by false desire that they can't appreciate anything. Real beauty they overlook, searching for something else.

Prabhupāda: My mother used to make puffed rice at home. So there is special rice available for making puffed rice. Either you can prepare at home or you can purchase in the market, special rice. So she was preparing nice puffed rice, very, very nice. In a sand pot. My mother was always engaged in making some food preparation. Some pickle, some chutney, and this puffed rice, or something else, something else, something else. Besides cooking for the family, she was being assisted by my sisters. Always palatable foodstuff. So many guests were there, and if son-in-law would come, they would specially prepare food for him. To receive guests, give them nice food to eat, prepare nice food for the family, this is the Indian pleasure. They are not very much, nowadays, for upkeep of the home, very... That, in their own way, they keep it very nicely. Every utensils, very cleansed, they are kept ready for use, some cloth. If you go in a poor man's home, but you'll find everything very neat and clean. Ask these gṛhasthas to keep their home very neat and clean. Are they keeping?

Bhagavān: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What are the general program for eating?

Bhagavān: For eating? Every morning everyone has a nice glass of yogurt, chickpeas and apple, orange and banana.

Prabhupāda: Chickpeas fried?

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Atreya Ṛṣi: Is there a relationship, he's asking, between these disturbances and this age, that this time that we are living in...

Prabhupāda: It is more or less. Sometimes you have got 110 degree temperature and sometimes you have got seventy degree temperature. But the disturbance is there. Either 110 degree or seventy degree or thirty degree, you'll have to feel the disturbance. You cannot stop it. So either you take the cause this age, or this country, or this atmosphere, we can say so, but it will continue. That is the nature of the material world. If you think that 110 degree is too much, let it be one hundred degree... That you concoct like that. In fact any such temperature will disturb you. That's a fact. You can think that if it would have been 100 degree, it would have been very nice, but that's not the fact. Either 110 degree or 100 degree, it is disturbance. Then how can you stop it? Anyone who wants to stop it, he's intelligent. And that is described here, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mam eti (BG 4.9). One has to understand this fundamentally, that so long I'll get this material body, I'll have to suffer. Maybe differences of degrees, but I will have to suffer. So my endeavor should be how to become independent of this material body. That is wanted. That is intelligence. Not to make a distinction of different degrees. Different degrees—one position, one man's food, another man's poison. The same degree. If you think that it is nice, another man will suffer. So suffering will continue. That is not possible (indistinct). It is the nature of material world, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). Find out this verse. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam. This material world is full of miseries. That they do not understand. Miserable condition they are accepting as pleasing. That is called ignorant.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: No, important. No, because if you have no eyes to see spiritual, you have to see physically, and they are all physical. Either you see with your eyes or touch with your hand or smell with your nose or lick up with your tongue, everything is physical.

Ali: I can feel the presence of the thing dominating things.

Prabhupāda: Presence is there, because just like a nice mango. So you cannot appreciate this mango simply by seeing. Natural tendency when you get a good mango, you smell. So why not see? Sufficient? Why you smell? So these are all misconceptions. Different things have to be realized in different processes. Suppose you are a good singer, I see you. So I cannot appreciate simply by seeing you. I shall ask you, "All right, please sing one song." When I hear you, then I shall appreciate. Is it not? So the physical experience by different senses, gross and subtle senses.

Ali: Our senses are imperfect.

Prabhupāda: Senses are imperfect always. Therefore we have to develop the perfect senses. That is spiritual. Just like you are working with your hands, this is physical. But this hand is not working. The spirit soul within the body, he is working. As soon as he is out, what is the value of your hand? When the spirit soul is out of your body, then I am asking you, "Mr. Ali, Mr. Ali, get up." Who is hearing? Your ear is there, but you cannot hear, finished. Therefore the spiritual senses, that is real sense. Do you follow what I say? You have got ear, but when the spirit soul is out of your body, in spite of possessing this physical ear, you cannot hear.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam eva vijñātaṁ bhavanti. This is Vedic instruction. If you simply understand God, then you understand everything. Therefore God says janma karma ca me divyam evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). "If anyone understands Me factually, then, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), then after giving up this body, he's not going to accept any more material body. He comes to Me." So simply try to understand God. And that is possible simply by chanting the holy name of God. Very easy. It doesn't matter. Either you are Iranian or Indian or, chant the name of, holy name of God. I think there should (not) be any objection for this movement. Eh? What do you think? That's all. We are simply pleading, "My dear sir, please chant the holy name of God." Who will have any objection? Nobody will have any. Do it. There is no confusion. If you are confused, chant the holy name of God, you'll be out of confusion. Tell them like that. Everyone should join with us and preach this cult. This is not a cult, this is a science, that you chant the holy name of God, that's all. You have seen that house? Dayānanda, no, was with you? Dayānanda?

Atreya Ṛṣi: It happened very quickly this time. We have been looking for a year, over a year. Many hundreds of houses we have seen. But this time, by your mercy, Śrīla Prabhupāda...

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa's mercy.

Atreya Ṛṣi: You will see it.

Prabhupāda: So make arrangement on Thursday. At any time, we shall go.

Atreya Ṛṣi: It is both nice location and a nice small house. We can also get a bigger one nearby, and a bigger one, we can take the whole city.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That is their business. They want or they don't want, that's all. Two business. Because their mind is not fixed up, they have got two businesses—"don't do it," "do it." That's all. There is no third business. Two things—"do it," "don't do it." That's all. Sometimes accepting—"Do it"—and again rejecting, "No, no, don't do it." This is material world. "Do it" and "don't do it." And things are becoming implicated. Saṅkalpa-vikalpa. So he has to fix up his mind. "I have done so much 'don't do it' and 'do it.' Now I shall decide to do only what Kṛṣṇa says." Then his life is perfect. "I shall give up this business, 'don't do it' and 'do it.' But I'll simply do what Kṛṣṇa says." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). "Yes, now I'll do it. What You say, I'll do it." Then his life is perfect. Otherwise he'll continue, "don't do it," "do it," "don't do it," "do it," that's all. And Kṛṣṇa will give him sanction—"do it" and "don't do it." Unless he comes to the original consciousness, Kṛṣṇa has to give him sanction, "Yes, do it." "Yes, do not do it." What can be done? But He says, "Give up this business, 'don't do it' and 'do it.' Simply do what I say. Then you'll be happy." Unless we agree to that point, we have to continue this material life, life after life, and suffer. Material body means suffering. Either you get human body or animal body or tree body or any body, suffers.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Inquisitive means one who does not accept that "Here is a person giving me gold. He's very good man, he'll not cheat me." Then you accept. But if you have no such faith, then you check it. But real gold, either you take in blind faith or by checking, the result is the same. Now it is up to you. If you believe Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead as He says... He is the Supreme Person. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). That's a fact. But if you don't believe it, then check and consider of our statement, and then accept. Two ways are there. Why people are misled? They do not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They are taking Bhagavad-gītā in their own way. So why they should take Bhagavad-gītā in their own way? That is not good. If you want to speak something better than Bhagavad-gītā, you speak separately. Why you misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā? Our preaching process is that you take Bhagavad-gītā's instruction, that is perfect, and you'll be happy. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Don't try to interpret it. Don't try to exact some meaning of your choice. No, that is not good. You take it as it is, you'll be benefited. Now if you take it, that it is spoken by Bhagavān svayam, then it is blind faith. It may be blind faith, but it is right. If you don't want, then Kṛṣṇa says, iti te jñānam ākhyātaṁ guhyād guhyataraṁ mayā. Then you check it by your knowledge. Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). Both ways you can accept. Therefore we have to follow mahājana. Our knowledge is always scanty. So mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). That is the way. Tarkaḥ apratiṣṭha. Tarka, by argument you'll never come to the conclusion. Śrutayor vibhinnam. There are śāstras for different persons, in different way they are presented. So they appear to be contradictory from one another. Not contradictory; at least, different from one another. So śrutayor vibhinnam. Na cāsav ṛṣir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. And a great philosopher is not a great philosopher if he does not present a different view. So therefore, the spiritual essence is very confidential. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihita guhyayam.(?)

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: I am coming here. This child can say the arrangement was there. She can say like that. But I'm adult, I know the arrangement was there. It was made by somebody.

Harikeśa: Yes, but for every amount of arrangement there is a disarrangement.

Prabhupāda: Disarrangement also can be... When there is arrangement, there can be disarrangement.

Harikeśa: So that's a complete whole also.

Prabhupāda: No, as soon as you accept arrangement, there is brain. Either you make arrangement or somebody makes.

Harikeśa: So the complete whole also is brain and brainless.

Prabhupāda: Brains, complete whole is pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate. That is complete. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate (Iso Invocation). That is beginning of Īśopaniṣad. It is already explained, the complete. What is that complete? Complete means complete brain. That is complete. Complete means complete brain. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Because He has complete brain. Anvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ, He's complete aware of everything. Therefore there is complete arrangement. This is the definition of complete. Complete in awareness. Therefore there is complete arrangement. Pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate. There is the pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate. Complete arrangement comes from the complete, pūrṇāt. There is water. This water has come from a water stock. The arrangement is complete.

Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Because we have no, that cātur-varṇa system. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). You have given up Kṛṣṇa's instruction, now you have to suffer. You do not train brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. So anyone who is in power, he is good. That is Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means anyone gets vote, he's in power. They can misuse the power. There is no kṣatriya.

Dr. Patel: I think that is a wrong system (much airplane noise-indistinct) this open Democracy is not a (indistinct) by consensus...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Now, either democracy or monarchy, the population is śūdra. So either you make it democracy or any "crazy," śūdra will be on the power. So they can...

Dr. Patel: In Kali-yuga, sir, the śūdras will rule according to the...

Prabhupāda: Everyone is śūdra. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Who is going to become brāhmaṇa? We are inviting everyone, "Come here, become brāhmaṇa." Who is interested? He'll go to the factory. Instead of becoming brāhmaṇa he'll be hammerman. In America no students are coming to the philosophical class or higher mathematics class.

Dr. Patel: Mathematics?

Prabhupāda: No. Higher studies, nobody comes. Only technology. The higher class, higher studies class, they are being closed. The professors are getting no job. We have a friend, Dr. Henderson, he is a doctor in higher mathematics, he is not getting job. No students, nobody is interested in higher... Similarly, many other things, and literatures.

Dr. Patel: Here also the same thing, nobody. And Sanskrit practically nil.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Vegetable, fruits, very innocent, little milk. That's all. Even if you don't eat these foodgrains, that is preferred. Better. Vegetable and fruits and milk, that is sufficient nutritious. There is no question of disease. But for our tongue taste we eat so many cooked food, but if we eat vegetables, boiled vegetables and fruits and milk, ah, it is sufficient. Ekādaśī. (laughter) Daily ekādaśī.

And these peanuts, a few grains. Not much. That is also nice. Cashew, peanut. Yes. So thank you very much. You are working so much for Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Bas. You become a guru. Actually you are doing the guru's work. "Here is a message from Kṛṣṇa. Please take it." Bas. Simple. Yāre dekha. And whomever you meet, tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa. Either you speak personally or give him a book.

Maṇihāra: This is the noon paper published...

Prabhupāda: "Explosion." Mahāṁśa Swami is continuing this.

Prabhā Viṣṇu: Yes.

Prabhupāda: It looks nice.

Prabhā Viṣṇu: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam. As soon as we decide to work for Kṛṣṇa very sincere. What is this Kṛṣṇa crossword? This is gambling.

Gargamuni: Kṛṣṇa crossword puzzle.

Hari-śauri: Oh. Crosswords are gambling?

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Fittest means who does not get next a material body. He is fit. He is fit. Because as soon as you get a material body...

nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma

yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti

na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam

asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ

(SB 5.5.4)

They are mad, working day and night. Pramatta. And acting just adverse to his interest. So Ṛṣabhadeva says this is not good. You should know that he has already got a body for which he is suffering. Pritar yantra.(?) And again he is creating another body. By his karma he is creating another body. So as soon as you get a material body you'll have to suffer. Either you become a king or a dog. Because you have got this material body you have to suffer. Pritar yantra. So asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). This body will not exist. But still so long you'll exist in this body you'll suffer. But they have no brain how to solve this, although there is solution. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). So paropakāra. So as you have become our life member, try to broadcast the philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā. That is the meaning of membership. Everything is there. We have got so many books. At least, thoroughly study Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Yes. Understand the philosophy of life. Apply in own life and try to spread among friends. In your bar library you talk so many things. Why not talk about this? Yes. (laughter) Paropakāra. That is paropakāra. Everyone is in darkness. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). They do not know the goal of life. Simply by some false hope they are accepting this material thing, material life, as everything. Durāśayā bahir-artha-māninaḥ. External energy. This is the problem. Making plans to solve. No plan will solve this problem.

Garden Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Īśāvāsyam idam—everything's Kṛṣṇa's. Mārobi rākhobi jo icchā tohārā. Surrender means that. "Kṛṣṇa, I have surrendered to You. Now if You like You can protect me. If you like You can kill me. Whatever you like, do." That's all. Mārobi rākhobi jo icchā tohārā nitya-dāsa prati tuwā adhikārā. "I am your eternal servant. You have got full right. Either you kill me or protect me, that is your business. But I surrender." Bas. This is surrender. Mārobi rākhobi jo icchā tohārā. This is surrender. If you put me into inconvenience, then I'm not going to surrender. That is conditional. (laughs) Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says whatever you like you can do. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching. Āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu mām marma-hatāṁ karotu vā adarśanān, yathā tathā vā vidadhātu (CC Antya 20.47). Whatever you like you do. Yathā tathā vā. Yathā tathā, whatever you like. It is up to you. I don't object. Yathā tathā vā vidadhātu lampaṭo.

Akṣayānanda: If one is not a very strong devotee, should one have that same attitude of going...

Prabhupāda: That is wanted. Dṛḍha-vrata. That is perfection. Bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ.

Hari-śauri: No, he's saying if you're not very fixed up then should you still go out and preach. If you're not very fixed up...

Prabhupāda: No, nobody is fixed. Nobody is perfect. But by rendering service he becomes perfect. The more you render service you become perfect. Not that in one day you become perfect.

Hari-śauri: Because I remember you also said that preaching is not for neophytes. You also said...

Room Conversation (Bullock Cart SKP) -- September 12, 1976, Vrndavana:

Caraṇāravindam: Prabhupāda? When we pass through the village how will we keep them engaged...

Prabhupāda: That he'll guide you. You do not know. He is from village, he knows. Village or no village, wherever you chant, people will come. That is a fact. Either you chant in Calcutta Maidan or in the village they will be... India is still alive in that sense. We have seen it. We have experience. Wherever we have chanted, people have come.

Lokanātha: When you went to some place in Gujarat, Sanand? It was reported that thousands of people will come. It was a small village...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Village, if you go out they will come like anything. Even in the city we have got experience. In Calcutta we did Maidan. Thirty thousand they were coming. They could not understand English, still they are coming, simply by kīrtana. This Haṁsadūta was performing kīrtana, and all the Bengali ladies coming from outside Calcutta by train, and they're praying, "take this." (indistinct) Still India is alive. And I was speaking in English mostly. Also in Delhi. Still ladies are sitting. (laughs) What they'll understand English? But that kīrtana was so attractive, they sat down only for kīrtana.

Lokanātha: Nobody outside ISKCON does this kīrtana.

Prabhupāda: What do they know? What they'll do? All rascals, fools.

Lokanātha: Even some religious organizations are there but nobody...

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Rich man you can become but for how long you shall be rich? The nature is so cruel; at any moment he'll take away everything. Then what is the use of becoming? No, you become rich man. There is no... But you should know that "Although I am rich, powerful, everything can be taken by nature at any moment." Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). That is statement of God, that "Any moment... You try to become rich, powerful, and president or minister, that's all right, but any moment, I can take everything from you." So who will protect himself? They have no brain that "Whatever I have created, it can be taken at any moment." So what is that confidence? They have no inquiry even. That this is a fact. Either you become Napoleon, Hitler or Gandhi, or this or that, any moment everything will be taken away. "Get out." Not only that, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), you have to accept another body. And that is no guarantee what body you are going to get because fully under the control of nature. They therefore don't believe in transmigration of the soul. And that is very great botheration. They try to evade. But Kṛṣṇa says, God says, "You cannot evade. It is nature's law." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Within your body the soul is there. On account of presence of the soul—you were a child; now you are a grown young man—the body has changed. You were a boy; now you are young man. So on account of presence of the soul, the body is changing. So when this body will be finished, the soul will exist. Therefore, naturally you have to conclude, there will be another body.

Dr. Kneupper: Is it possible to escape the conditions of being in the body?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is possible. That is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And that is the real problem. As soon as you get a body, you are in trouble.

Dr. Kneupper: What is the purpose of there being a body?

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Then if he is coming from Himalayas, then why is the question about where is Himalaya? Then why will he question where is Himalaya? He is already coming from Himalaya. So there is no question where is Himalaya. For him there is no question. One who does not know where is Himalaya, the answer will be Himalaya is on the northern side. The answer is one. And if you say that there are many students, so you can answer, that "Either you go this side or this side or that side, Himalaya is there," that is not the answer.

Indian man: East is not east, south is not south, north is not north when you go the opposite direction.

Prabhupāda: What. Then what is the meaning of east, west, south? If it is not east? If east is not east, then why do you call it east?

Indian man: Because the paradox, we are having sun rises, sun sets. But why there is two things, the sun never sets. Rises, the sun never sets.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Sun rises from the east.

Indian man: But the fact is sun never rises. Sun is only there.

Prabhupāda: Sun never rises. Then where is the question that "Where is sun?" To your experience? If the sun rises, and if you say the sun never rises, if you know it, then what is your question?

Indian man: That is the question where realization is over.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: No, who says, they are rascals. They are rascals. We take them as rascals, that's all. How you can say that you are all-pervading? Can you say that? Even if you are very highly elevated, can you say what I am thinking? Then how do you claim God? God is all-pervading. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata (BG 13.3). You have read Bhagavad-gītā. There are two kṣetras-jñas. One kṣetra-jña, just like I am, you are. They are kṣetra-jña. I know about my pains and pleasures of my body. You know. But I do not know what is pains and pleasure of your body. You do not know what is pains and pleasure of my body. Therefore there is difference. But God knows. That is the difference between you and God. How you claim God? You do not know what is the pains and pleasures of my body. You know the pains and pleasure of your body. I know the pains and pleasure of my body. But either you or me, we do not know the pains and pleasures of all bodies. And Kṛṣṇa says kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. He knows everyone's pains and pleasure. That is the difference between you and Him.

Mr. Malhotra: But this is all right. As long as I maintain my identity...

Prabhupāda: You have to... If you foolishly think that you have become one, that is your foolishness. Yes. That is foolish thinking.

Mr. Malhotra: If I submerge myself with the entire...

Prabhupāda: Merge means you do not disagree. That is merge. Do not disagree. Just like when Arjuna was disagreeing, that is his condition, that is his conditioned identity, and when he agreed, "Yes, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73),"that is identity of oneness.

Mr. Malhotra: Surrender.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: It is just like if you put water on the root of the tree, so all the parts of the tree may become satisfied, automatically. Or if you put food in the stomach, all the parts of your body becomes satisfied that is automatic. You don't require to make a separate endeavor. That is not required.

Mr. Malhotra: Is there any difference between the ego of a person who is collecting money, or material things, all his life, or a person who is giving all the material things for the service of humanity at large? Is there any difference between the two?

Prabhupāda: To give your fruits of, result of your fruitive activities, either you give to yourself or to your brothers and sisters, it is the same thing. Expanded. Just like a child eats, but when he is little grown up, he gives to his brother also. But the principle is the same. But when you give everything to God, that is liberated stage. Yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi dadāsi yat kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam. "Whatever you do, you give me Me, whatever you eat, you give to Me." Yad aśnāsi dadāsi yat (BG 9.27). "You want to give in charity, you give to Me." (pause) We have to cross this hill?

Mr. Malhotra: Yes, we have to cross the hill. And then we again go on plain, then to cross another hill. But they are small, only three, four miles. We have already crossed one near Poona. That was also a small. This is called Kandalakat. That was called Kaprij. Some Kaprij Rishi I think. Ah, there's the name, Kaprij. (break)

Mr. Malhotra: Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana. And Bombay.

Mr. Malhotra: Now in March it will be completed, Kṛṣṇa center?

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Our case is not that we are going to convert one Hindu to Christian, or Christian to Hindu. There is no meaning. Our is, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Even if you are Hindu, even you are Muslim, you are Christian, kick it out. That is our movement. We do not advocate that "You are Christian, you become Hindu." Or "You are Hindu, you become..." They are taking like that. But our movement is not that.

Guest (4): That's what I say.

Prabhupāda: Our movement is, either you are Hindu, either you are Muslim, either you are Christian, you kick out all this. Sarva-dharmān parityajya. Simply you become surrendered to Kṛṣṇa or God. This is our... And anyone who can do that, he is first-class religious. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Adhokṣaja, God's name is Adhokṣaja. You cannot see Him beyond your material perception. So if you are trained up to surrender to God, then you are religious. We do not say that you become Hindu or Muslim or Christian or this or that. We do not say so.

Dr. Patel: But all Christians, if they truly are... I mean Hindus, that Christ...

Prabhupāda: No, either he become Hindus. That does not mean the Hindus are perfect. We do not mean that. Even if he becomes Hindu, what is the benefit? No benefit.

Dr. Patel: No. Even he becomes a Christian, there is no benefit.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I say any religious stamp, material, there is no benefit. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). You have to give up all these designations. And bhakti, love of Godhead, or service to God, begins when you are relieved from these designations. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). When becoming God conscious, you become completely purified, then your devotional life begins. And so long you are entangled with this designation, there is no question of devotional service. Either you Hindu or Muslim or Christian, it doesn't matter. So our business is not that, that we convert a Hindu to a Christian or a Christian to a Hindu. That is not our business. They are thinking, because we dress like that, with tilaka, with māla, they think Hindu. But it's not our business to convert the Christians to become Hindus, as all other missionaries, they are doing. They are trying to increasing the number of Christian or Hindus. So our... There is no question of increasing. It is very difficult to accept.

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ

(BG 7.3)

Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not so easy. Out of millions and millions of persons, one becomes perfect. And out of millions of perfect, one may understand Kṛṣṇa. That is the version of Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not so easy that everyone, each one will become Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is very difficult. But by the grace of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, by this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, this is helping. Otherwise, it is very difficult task. Very difficult. It is recommended in the śāstra, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51).

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kennedy airport? There are two, three airports. (break) ...forget spiritual body. Next time he is going to be dog. That he does not know.

Dr. Patel: (laughs) Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, sir. Even dog has in his day. There is the dominance of God.

Prabhupāda: No, no. We don't hate dog. We say that this life is meant for getting release from this repetition of birth and death. Otherwise punaḥ punaś carvita... Either you become a dog or a hog or a man or a god. The business is āhāra-nidra-bhaya-maithuna... (break) (bell rings)

Prabhupāda: That one thing is that this sort of publicity and this, this dress, is very nice. Girls who have no husband, they should dress like this, not attractive dress. A dress sometimes attracts the opposite sex. And women are... By nature they dress very nicely. (laughs) That is everywhere—to attract. The nature is that they are dependent, woman by nature. Do you admit or not?

Pālikā: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: If by serving humanity, you cannot raise him to the standard of understanding he's part and parcel of God and his main business to serve Kṛṣṇa, then it is useless. Śrama eva hi kevalam. So our service to the humanity should be... He is in forgetfulness. He does not know what is his position. If you can raise him to the position that he is part and parcel of God... Unless he comes to the position of serving God, his material condition will continue. Mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. So, dharmasyāsya janma, parantapa. Aśraddadhānāḥ... Like that. Then that service is useless. If he continues, punar api janma, punar, then his service to the humanity useless. Therefore our service to the humanity should be aimed how to awaken his original consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is real service. (pause—someone says something—Hindi) It is... There is no benefit. Simply labor of love. That's all. And just like to make one Hindu from Christian. So what benefit you'll get? He is under wrong impression that "I am Christian," and he's brought into another wrong impression—"I am Hindu." But he's neither Hindu nor Christian. He's servant of God. So to turn the Christian, to bring him to become a Hindu, it is useless labor. What benefit? A dog is also thinking, "I am dog." And if somebody is thinking, "I am Hindu," so where is the difference? Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). If one thinks, "This body, I am"—either Hindu or Muslim or dog or cat, if one is thinking in that way, that "I am this body,"—sa eva go-kharaḥ: (SB 10.84.13) he's animal. So from one animal to another animal—from cat to dog or from dog to cat—where is the benefit? The position is the same. As a cat he will that "Meow," and as a dog, he'll "Gowl." That's all, that much difference. But he remains animal. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). What is benefit of such humanitarian work? And Bhagavad-gītā says mām upetya kaunteya punar janma na vidyate. No more either cat or dog. Mām eva. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). That is wanted. Punar janma means if I am cat, I become a dog, or if I am a dog, I become cat. That is punar janma. So that will continue his birth and death. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). What is that benefit? Suppose I am now human being and next life I become either dog or a demigod. So the janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9) is there, either you become a demigod or a dog. But your position is na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You have to come to that position.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Indian (1): That is the philosophical and spiritual position.

Prabhupāda: That is real position. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). If you are under the law of birth and death, then it is useless, the same thing, either you become cat or dog or god or anything. Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). So even if you take your birth in the highest planetary system, Brahmaloka, still, the birth, death, old age is there.

Indian (1): Kṣīṇe puṇye martya-lokam...

Prabhupāda: Martya-lokaṁ viśanti. So disease continues.

Indian (1): It is a circle.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian (1): And that man himself accepts all these things...

Prabhupāda: That is going on...

Indian (1): ...through his karma.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is the fact, we know. We know that is a fact, that... My point is that the modern age, they are very much proud of advanced technology. So where is that knowledge? And why people do not tax their brains to get this knowledge? This is very important subject matter. But where is that knowledge? And why they do not try to do it? We get information from the Supreme Personality of Godhead that this jīva, the driver... Not driver. The passenger. We are passenger, and driver is God, and machine made by material energy, māyā... Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. The similarity is there. Just like motorcar is manufactured by somebody and the passenger is there and the driver is there, similarly, this is a machine made by māyā. I am the passenger, and God is driver. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati bhrāmāyan (BG 18.61). Bhrāmāyan, the driver, the passenger of the owner, he is asking, "Mr. Driver, you go this way." So He's driving. Just like the same—Arjuna is asking Kṛṣṇa, senayor ubhayor madhye rathaṁ sthāpaya me 'cyuta: (BG 1.21) "Just between these two parties of soldiers, please keep my chariot." The same thing. The chariot driver, He is the Supersoul. In this body there are two souls. Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. That he's also kṣetrajñā. Kṣetra is this body, and kṣetrajñā one knows, this body.... Just like I know it is my finger. I never say, "I finger." It is my finger. So similarly, the driver also can say, "It is my car," and the proprietor also can say. So two persons, one driver and one passenger, or the proprietor.... And the body is machine. The subjects are there. Why you do not try to understand the subject matter? Then where is your advancement? That is my challenge. Why you are so much proud of your advancement of knowledge. What is this knowledge? Tell me. You are young man. I am giving you the challenge. Either you admit that you are not advanced or make advancement. Why you set aside this difficult subject matter and become proud by making a small machine that you are advanced? Where is your advancement? (Hindi) He is Mr. Bajaj, the proprietor of the Bajaj Electricity.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: They may think. It is not the fact. It is a culture.

Rāmeśvara: For example, this group, this new record, Golden Avatar record...

Prabhupāda: That may be for a certain class.

Rāmeśvara: It can become very popular, but if they find out it is Hare Kṛṣṇa, they will think it is religion and they will not buy it. But if we do not mention that it is Hare Kṛṣṇa right at the beginning...

Prabhupāda: Either you mention or not mention, unless they realize that it is good...

Rāmeśvara: Well, that they'll realize when they hear it. Just like our book distributors. They're not dressing as Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees; therefore they are successful. As soon as the people see that they are Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees, they do not want religion.

Prabhupāda: No... Suppose a military dress... Then there are different dresses. When it is understood properly, dress is immaterial. The military dress... Everyone knows that their business is to kill. That does not mean they are hated. Similarly, people see, and when they understand, that is the process.

Jagadīśa: In the Kṛṣṇa book, when Kamsa was being a little lenient with Vasudeva, Nārada Muni thought to speed things up, so he instigated Kamsa to become frightened about Vasudeva and Devaki and their children. So similarly, it appears that in order to speed up Kṛṣṇa consciousness's infiltration and overtaking this materialistic society, that all of these brainwashing charges and...

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Why it is happening? Why we have given everything. Our father, mother, our home, our comforts, our ideas, stereotyped, our religion, culture—everything we have given up. So don't you see the power of chanting? You may think it is bad, but see the power. Similarly, these diseased person, if they chant, it has got power to bring him in the normal condition. The power is there. It is already proved. You say it is brainwash, but the power is there. Reaction is there. That's a fact. You are admitting. So now, whether this reaction is good or bad, that you cannot judge because you are bad. But impersonally, if you judge, you see how the power is, that we were drunkards, we were woman-hunter, we were meat-eaters—we have given up. You cannot give up even smoking cigarette. So just this is the power. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12)." Why don't you take this side? The power is there. The electric power is there, either you use it for heater or for cooler. That is your na... But the power is there. Without this power, it cannot run on, either heater or cooler. Give them this recipe(?). "You have to admit. You are admitting that 'Your Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra working on the brain.' So the power is there. You have admitted."

Hari-śauri: Yeah, they admit the power.

Prabhupāda: That is... That is some...

Hari-śauri: But we have to show them that it's good.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Why you say, speak India or in England? The human intelligence is the same. There is no change. They have made like this: "East," "West" and "England," and... The psychology is the same. The ass is the same. The camel is the same. The dog is the same. We are talking of these dogs. Do you think that in Europe the dog is different from Indian dog? (laughs) They have created another problem. But we take: "You are all dogs. Either you be Indian or England or German, you are, after all, after dog. Your mentality is dog." They have created that "Indian dog is better than the English dog" or "English dog is better than German." What is better? It is dog. You are doglike and hankering after some job in America and amongst Europeans. The Indians are all doing that, the same education. Recently for a post of five hundred men there were three lakhs of applications. This is education. And you'll find uneducated Indian, still he's independent. You will find in Calcutta especially we have seen. Yes. In the morning they'll purchase a bag of potato. Say, he invests twenty rupees. Nowadays he'll sit down in a corner and make two rupees' profit. He invests twenty rupees, and he gets twenty-two. He's satisfied, poor man. Then in the, say, ten to twelve he'll purchase some dāl. He'll go home to home. He'll make another two rupees' profit. In the evening he'll take some kerosene oil, and he'll sell. Evening everyone requires kerosene oil. He'll make another two rupees. So he's illiterate. He makes six rupees' profit, five rupees' profit, and if he can, ten rupees' profit. And takes some chana cho(?), some peanuts, sit down. In this way he's independently earning five to ten rupees. And educated? He's just like dog—"Give me job"—and unemployed and eating at the cost of father or welfare activities, welfare department, and moving like dog. Just see practically. The uneducated, he's earning because he knows that "If I go with application, what education I have got? Nobody will like me." He's hopeless in that way. "So let me try in my own way." He's earning ten rupees. And the other man, he's starving and taking help from the government, eating at the cost of father. This is education.

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So there is no doubt about it that I am the representative of God.

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. But when I was...

Prabhupāda: Either you dream or not dream, I claim.

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. But this thing was just confirming. When I saw you the first time in Amsterdam, you were the same person that I saw in my dream one or two years previously.

Prabhupāda: That... You have read Caitanya-caritāmṛta? Guru-tattva. Guru-tattva. So there it is clearly said that guru is the manifestation of God. So it is confirmed in the śāstra. And all the ācāryas accept it. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **.

Satsvarūpa: But is it possible to also learn spiritual truths from this..., from representatives on the subtle plane?

Prabhupāda: There is no question of subtle plane. You are on the gross plane. You first of all study gross things, and subtle, we shall see later on.

Pṛthu-putra: Of course, that was never a doubt. That's just the way I came to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And when I saw you...

Prabhupāda: So the guru is the representative of God. That's all right. Then what is your misunderstanding?

Pṛthu-putra: So then after I had some other things. For example, when I went to Egypt, in these pyramids one day I had some kind of contact on the subtle plane with persons who were supposed to live inside of the pyramids, and they gave me some kind of instructions.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is the use?

Yogeśvara: But let us say by his karma a man is in a position where he cannot perceive...

Prabhupāda: That is the... That is in the via media. The real trouble is there—janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Now if you can make change... Suppose you are now a dog. You can become a man. But that is not solution. Or you are man; you can become a demigod. Karma. But that does not make solution! Either you become demigod or man or dog or cat or insect, you must have these tribulations, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). That is God's challenge. You first of all make solution. But you are eternal. Why you are in this condition? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You... That means you are eternally suffering, punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), simply changing the position. But suffering's there. So you are taking credit by little change of the position. And that is your foolishness. And God challenges you, "You make solution of these things." Why little change? Suppose I am... I have got so many centers. Sometimes I live in the palace, other times a cottage. So this is change of position. But I am the same man. So whatever comfort or discomfort is there in that you France palace, the same comfort and discomfort is in this cottage. But if I think, "Now I am in the France palace, or Bhaktivedanta Manor palace. I am happy," that is foolishness. They are doing that. You are eating something bitter. So it is in the iron pot. You are thinking, "If I put it in the golden pot, it will be nice." That is your foolishness. The taste, either you put in the golden pot or iron pot or in the floor, the taste is the same. So our taste is this eating sleeping, sex and defense. So that is going on.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We have an example in our article about this, about the laws of karma and the living entities. So we use this pig.(?) So we say that...

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: ...and the other said, "No, it was a scissor that was used." And they began arguing back and forth, and finally one man who held that it was a knife, he threw the other man in the river...

Prabhupāda: That "You accept that it is done by scissor." So he said, "No, I won't tolerate." Then he pushed him in the water. Then he was doing like this. (laughter) Scissor logic.

Bhāgavata: Argumentum vaculam.

Prabhupāda: That was used. He was put in the water. "Either you accept or I shall push you in the water." "No, I'll not accept." (laughter) So these rascals are like that. They are failure. They cannot. Still, they'll do, (laughter) the so-called scientists.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have an international society for doing that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They must combine. Otherwise there is no place for them. As soon as they accept that there is something beyond physical, then they'll have to accept God.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like when we say life is nonphysical and nonchemical, then they're very amused.

Prabhupāda: That is...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: "What is it? If it is nonphysical nonchemical, then what it is?" They inquire.

Prabhupāda: Spiritual.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, but...

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (chuckling) Therefore anyone who worships the other demigod, they are hṛta-jñānāḥ, there is no sense.

Hari-śauri: Alpa-medhasa.

Prabhupāda: Less intelligent. Yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). You will remain within this material world. That is Mother's kingdom. This external world is controlled by the Mother Durgā. She's in charge of this material world. So if you become a perfect devotee of Mother, you get all good chances in this material world but not eternal life. Within this material world wherever you go everything is limited, either you become Indra or Brahmā, or ant. Just like President Nixon, so long he was President he was doing everything as he liked, and now he's an ordinary man, (indistinct). This is Mother's kingdom. Is that Mr. Nixon the same Nixon when he was President? But same Nixon is he, but the atmosphere and the circumstance is the same? Does he not realize it? "How I was enjoying as President and what is my position. Everyone kicks on my face." Is that very good position? Therefore alpa. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām (BG 7.23). Antavat tu phalam. This position ultimately will be ended. Therefore less intelligent class are after this, not very intelligent men. What is time?

Hari-śauri: Twenty to eleven. (end)

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ... Son begotten by Lord Śiva in the womb of Pārvatī, he'll be able to conquer over the demons. Kārttikeya. You have heard the name of Kārttikeya? So the, wife of Lord Śiva, Dākṣāyaṇī, committed suicide in the Dakṣa-yajña. She heard blaspheming (of) her husband so immediately she gave up her body: "My father, you have given this body; therefore you are claiming so much from me. I give up this body." So he (she) gave up his (her) body, and the next birth she was born as the daughter of Himalaya king, Pārvatī. And after her death as the daughter of Dakṣa Mahārāja, Lord Śiva was engaged in meditation, very deep meditation. Now the problem was how to wake up Lord Śiva from meditation and engage him again with Pārvatī. Nobody dared. So the Pārvatī was engaged to worship the genital of Lord Śiva. He was in meditation, and he could not be awakened. Kālīdāsa Kavi is giving remark that "Here is dhīra. Here is dhīra, a young girl touching the genital of Lord Śiva and he is not agitated." Adhīra. Dhīra means there is cause of agitation, but one is not agitated. That is called dhīra. And adhīra, everyone. There is cause of agitation in so many ways. Our, this movement, kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau, if we remain engaged in kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau, then dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau. Both the dhīra and adhīra will enjoy this kṛṣṇa-kīrtana. This our movement, is for the dhīra. And adhīra also, if he joins this movement, even adhīra also becomes dhīra. This is the test. Dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau priya-karau. So we should not be adhīra. That is the perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Adhīra means to remain in the material world. So long we are adhīra, there is no chance of going back home, back to Godhead. This is the tapasya, to remain dhīra. There are many causes of becoming adhīra. But the causes may not disturb us. Then dhīra. Dhīradhīra-jana-priyau priya-karau. Haridāsa Ṭhākura, just like-dhīra. There was cause, enough cause. He was young man, and a young prostitute, very beautiful, came at midnight and offered her body to Haridāsa Ṭhākura. He said, "Yes, very good proposal. You sit down. Let me finish my chanting. I shall enjoy." This is dhīra. For three nights she tried and failed and she became surrendered. "Sir, this was my motive. I was sent by such and such person." Haridāsa Ṭhākura, "Yes, I knew all these things. I would have gone long ago, but you are innocent. Your business is this. You came. So I wanted to try to do some good to you. So better you have come to your senses. Now you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. I am leaving." So, dhīra. This material world means so long we'll have a pinch of material desire, we'll have to take birth. Kṛṣṇa will give us full facility to satisfy our senses in various ways. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). Full facilities. "Enjoy. But if you want my advice, then sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ... (BG 18.66)." That is Kṛṣṇa's advice. And that, Kṛṣṇa is ready to give all facilities for material enjoyment in different grades of life. Beginning from Brahmā down to the ant, everyone is engaged in this sense gratification. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Either you become a Brahmā or you become Indra or Candra or human being or cat or dog or ant or insect—the same business: āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam, punaḥ punaḥ, again and again, the same business.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: No loss. There's just gain.

Prabhupāda: Jīvo vā māro vā: "Either you live or you die, it doesn't matter." And for butcher, nā jīvo nā māro: "Don't die; don't live. So long you are living, every morning you have to cut throat of so many. And if you die you shall go to hell and suffer for this cutting throat. So don't live; don't die." And for a devotee: "Live or die." And for prince, king's son. "Don't die." And for brahmacārī... (break) All night screaming, and they have to hear, the Indians.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Publicly.

Prabhupāda: Because they know the Indian Hindus, they have got sentiment for cow killing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So why? Why...?

Prabhupāda: They may go away.

Hari-śauri: Because every five years or so they move them to another area. They have to uproot everything and move somewhere else.

Prabhupāda: Very badly treated, Indians. The blacks are still more badly treated.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That government is going to be finished soon.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Oh, you want a statement...

Hari-śauri: We wrote to ask if you could send a statement.

Rāmeśvara: You wrote to me?

Prabhupāda: No, they sanctioned. Either you can send a copy or the original.

Rāmeśvara: Oh, yes, no problem. Also this receipt, I wasn't sure. The artists had some meeting to plan out the paintings for Ninth Canto, Volume Three. The Second Volume is rāma-līlā and also Paraśurāma. That's already at the printer.

Prabhupāda: No picture?

Rāmeśvara: They're at the printers. When we return they'll be printed. We left Jagannātha-sūta there to supervise the printing, and we left enough artists to start painting the Third Volume, the final volume. So there are two paintings describing the story of Mahārāja Yayāti...

Prabhupāda: Yayāti.

Rāmeśvara: ...how he was cursed to lose his youthfulness and so on.

Prabhupāda: Śukrācārya.

Rāmeśvara: This first sketch shows Śiva and Pārvatī are passing on the road. These women were bathing, and they are running to cover themselves. And this is the beginning of the fight between the women over the clothing, and Śukrācārya's daughter was thrown into a well.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, that chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa does not mean whimsical.

Rāmeśvara: No.

Prabhupāda: Offenseless, he must be properly initiated. It does not mean that he should not be initiated and chant. That is not the idea. You can... Must be initiated, either you are a gṛhastha or sannyāsī or brahmacārī. Not that without being initiated you'll whimsically chant and the effect will be the same. No. You must be initiated. Ādau gurvāśrayam. You must accept a guru.

Rāmeśvara: If you want to sell some product, you may make so many claims, and then the public will buy. So sometimes we quote these psychologists who have done studies that "If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, there are some good effects."

Prabhupāda: Good there is undoubtedly. If you eat something, there will be some effect of eating. But if it is properly eaten, properly made, it will be, have better effect. That is the idea.

Rāmeśvara: We were thinking that something is better than nothing.

Prabhupāda: No.

Hari-śauri: If you advertise the mahā-mantra gives some material benefit, isn't that an offense?

Prabhupāda: Then that is aparādha.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is aparādha.

Conversation with Italian Woman with Translator -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: It has nothing to do with spiritual advancement. It is body. So that is animal conception. Tell her.

Translator: She's still insisting, should she stay with her husband, should she stay alone so she can...?

Prabhupāda: The same thing. Because it is body, bodily connection, either you live alone or with somebody, it has nothing to do with spiritual life.

Translator: She lives in Milano and she would like, somehow or other, to help people through yoga. So she wants to know if she is able to do it or not?

Prabhupāda: What help she can do?

Translator: She says she would like to help spiritually other people.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So first of all you realize yourself.

Translator: She says sometimes she calls you, and she can feel your presence, and she wants to know if you can feel her presence.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I'm ready to help, but spiritually.

Translator: So she said that probably would be the first and last time she will see you, so she wants to know if she can continue to contact you.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Ram Jethmalani: That is the only way to have a world movement. Must do. Cut across these...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So harijanas, Muslims, these are... And camara-bhangi. These are designations. Or brāhmaṇa, bodily concept of life. So according to our śāstra, so long one continues this bodily concept of life, he is animal. Either you call I am bhangi, or you call I am brāhmaṇa, you are animal. This is the verdict of the śāstra. What is the difference? The conception is the same. "I am dog." "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am Indian," "I am American." That "I am" with the bodily identification is there.

yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ

yat tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ

(SB 10.84.13)

Go means cow, khara means ass. So so long we shall continue this bodily concept of life—"I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Pakistani," "I am...," so on, so on, that is animal concept of life. So one has to raise himself from this impure designated position to the transcendental position. Then he can realize. And that is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And Bhagavad-gītā teaches from the very beginning, "Don't identify with this body." Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase (BG 2.11). "You are talking like a very learned man, but you are identifying with this body." Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. "This body is a lump of matter, and you are considering upon this and talking like a paṇḍita." This is the beginning. So who understands Bhagavad-gītā? Where Bhagavad-gītā begins? Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). They do not understand even the first line of Bhagavad-gītā, what to speak of this statement. Bhagavad-gītā is purely meant for the dehī, the owner of the body, not of the body. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā teaching. Who understands it? Nobody understands it. And they are scholars, and they are so on, so on.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So I am also. So all these ministers, they invited me. They are in Hyderabad. I was in the house of Mr. Raju, the Endowment Minister. So they were very friendly. In Hyderabad, all the big, big government commissioners, the chief minister, they came in the opening ceremony of our temple. So it is fortunate that you were in Russia. So our humble attempt is to distribute the sublime knowledge of India. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Actually, outside India, there is no knowledge. Plainly speaking, their knowledge is as good as animals. Because in the śāstra it is said—and it is fact; either you refer to the śāstra or not, it is common sense-

yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ

yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ

(SB 10.84.13)

Go means, cow and khara means ass. So yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. This body, bag of kapha-pitta-vāyu, if one thinks that "I am this body," then he is a go-khara. So this bodily concept of life is going on all over the world. "I am Russian," "I am German," "I am Englishman," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that." But India, especially Bhagavad-gītā, when Kṛṣṇa opens His mouth to speak, His first instruction is that "You are not this body." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ asmin dehe. Asmin dehe. This material body...

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: All right.

Mr. Dwivedi: So to correspond, I have got...

Prabhupāda: All right. So...

Mr. Dwivedi: Either you might keep this way, that... Just fix up some date so I shall also get myself ready accordingly, fixed up, finish up my other...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How many days you are intending to stay now in Bombay?

Mr. Dwivedi: I am leaving on the 25th night. Then, on... I am reaching there 26th night. On the 27th I have to attend the marriage of my younger brother's son. That will take about two days, to 27th and 28th. And then, then, till about the 3rd I am busy in the sense that our president of Abhesivasana(?), he expired recently. So he left two sons. They... They just need my little guidances in such matters, the young boys. Not young. Pretty old, but yet, because they, being the sons of a yajnirdatta(?), did not much look up to the work, now suddenly the responsibility has fallen over their heads. So... But after the 3rd or 4th, I am free.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's good, gives a little time for preparing.

Mr. Dwivedi: The weather at our headquarters is always pleasant. Summer, very pleasant. You'll gain in weight.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Evening Darsana -- May 11, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: So we are preaching that "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa." Our preaching is simple. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the Supreme." We say, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme." That's all. We repeat. We don't manufacture. What is the use of manufacturing? I am imperfect. Whatever I manufacture, that is imperfect. So better to repeat the words of the perfect. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. He said, "Every one of you become guru and deliver your surrounding persons, either you are in family or in neighborhood or in society or in nation, as much as you can." Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). So whatever limited circle, you just become guru and deliver them. Deliver means deliver from the ignorance. Everyone is in ignorance, dehātma-buddhiḥ. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke, sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So we have to teach them that "You are not this body. You are pure soul. Your business is different." And that is enlightenment. That is the business of guru. So we can do that business. And how to do it? That is... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). You haven't got to manufacture anything. What Kṛṣṇa has already said, you repeat. Finish. Don't make addition, alteration. Then you become guru. Very simple thing. If I say that "My father said, 'This is a bell,' " I am correct because I have learned it from my father, authority. I may be fool, rascal. It doesn't matter. But because I have learned it from the authority and presenting it that "This is a bell," this is perfect. Similarly, I cannot become guru because I am imperfect. My senses are imperfect. I cannot see even what is beyond this wall, although I am very much proud of my eyes. I want to see. What you can see? Imperfect, all senses. But if some authority says that "Beyond this wall this is the..., like this," it is all right. So we have to follow this path, that you become guru, deliver your neighborhood men, associates, but speak the authoritative words of Kṛṣṇa. Then it will act. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is like that.

Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Don't talk. Why you are talking? So our real trouble is that we have become conditioned by the material identification, "I am this body." Everyone is thinking, "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am sannyāsī," everything, identification with the body. That is the dirty thing. So one has to purify, that "I am neither American, neither Indian, nor brāhmaṇa, or so many designations." Then it is called cleansing the heart. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). That is mukti, when you don't identify with this material body. And so long you identify with this material body, either you become a sannyāsī with some beard or a gṛhastha without some beard, the same thing, identifying with the body. So ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12) means to become free from the bodily designation. And śāstra says, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). This body is composition of three dhātu, kapha, pitta, vāyu, according to Āyur Veda; and according to medical science, it is skin and then muscle, blood, bone, and marrow, stool, urine, those, combination. So I am not this combination of stool, bone, skin, blood. But people are taking that. When they are diseased, they take care of the body. Of course, it is not that we should not take care. But that is superficial. Real care should be taken of the soul within the body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ, dehī. Dehinaḥ and deha. So anyone who is identifying with this body in either... According to Vedic civilization, the bodily identification is divided into eight: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. Varṇāśrama-dharma. So human civilization begins, according to Vedic understanding, when there is varṇāśrama system. Otherwise it is not human civilization. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). This system should be followed.

Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: So without this faith, nobody can achieve the association of Kṛṣṇa. There are two things. You become associate of Kṛṣṇa, or you become associate of this material world. So if you do not become associate of Kṛṣṇa, then the next step is this association of material world. And association of material world means accepting one type of body and enjoy or suffer for some time; then you get another body. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). Now we have to make our choice, whether you want to stop this material way of life and attain the eternal spiritual life...

mām upetya punar janma

duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam

nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ

saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ

(BG 8.15)

If you get the association of Kṛṣṇa, then you haven't got to come here, this material world. Duḥkhālayam. Kṛṣṇa says it is duḥkhālayam. Either you take birth in a very rich, aristocratic family, born in the upper planetary system as demigods-Brahmā, Indra, Candra, like that—or you take your birth, an insignificant ant; wherever you are in material body, it is duḥkhālayam. That you cannot avoid. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). And you cannot make any compromise that "Never mind it is very much miserable. I shall enjoy." So that also will not be allowed. Aśāśvatam. Your tendency is to live forever. So that will not be allowed. Aśāśvata. So this requires knowledge, intelligence, that "If I am eternal," na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), "I am not destroyed even this body is destroyed," then you should seek after eternal happiness. Why temporary? That is not in your interest. That happiness is there when you go back to Kṛṣṇa; otherwise not. These are the statement in the Bhagavad-gītā. So if we do not try to understand the real purpose of Bhagavad-gītā, and if we theorize, "Bhagavad-gītā means nonviolence. Bhagavad-gītā means to become patriot," these are materialism.

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 28-29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Both. It's also curing us, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt. You'll find, not find any medicine throughout the universe that you'll be benefited either you die or be... This is the only medicine. In both ways you are... The death is inevitable. You die today or tomorrow. So by taking this medicine, if you die, you have the greatest benefit. And if you live, enjoy. If you die, enjoy; if you live, enjoy. Go on chanting. (kīrtana) (break) No, I have no objection. (laughter) I am prepared in either way. What is that machine they keep? Husking machine?

Upendra: Asking machine?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Husking machine.

Prabhupāda: That from paddy, rice is taken away by beating.

Bhavānanda: (whispering) That's the...

Prabhupāda: In your country there is no such thing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Māyāpur we have seen.

Prabhupāda: It is called ḍheṅki.

Bhavānanda: Ḍheṅki.

Morning Talk -- June 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And they are all intelligent in sense gratification. Quite equal in intelligence, like the man. There is no scarcity of intelligence. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. How to sleep, how to eat, how to enjoy sex, how to protect from danger—they know everything completely. (break) ...he's trained up. And how to enjoy according to the body, place, that complete intelligence is there. Lord Brahmā has got that intelligence, and the small insect, he has got. And Kṛṣṇa is giving everyone facility: "All right, enjoy." Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). Sarva-bhūtāni. Everyone is getting opportunity. According to his karma, he's getting a suitable body. You want to become Brahmā? All right. And you become, want to become a hog? All right. If you want to become worm in the stool, all right. This is going on. And devotion begins when one does not want to become anything. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). Then he likes. So when you desire, either you desire like a Brahmā or the worm in the stool, that is material. And when you give up this desire, then spiritual life begins. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (CC Madhya 19.167). Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). So to become anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (CC Madhya 19.167), that is required. Who will understand this philosophy?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now with your books, the whole world may understand.

Prabhupāda: Of course, we have made such attempt.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: People write that now they have got your books they are feeling actually alive for the first time. People write like that. They get so many letters at the BBT, thanking them for giving these books. In all languages people are writing you like that. They feel grateful.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I received directly such congratulations in the airport many times. Many times.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: People would come up to you.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is already answered. You are limited within certain area. So you can conclude in so many ways. Sara bhuri kara, kara bhuri sara.(?) There is a vegetable prepared, the following vegetables are taken: sara, bhuri, and kara. And again you say kara bhuri sara. This way or that way. Sara bhuri kara, kara bhuri sara. That three things, either you take this way consecutively or that way consecutively. But you have got only that kara bhuri sara. You have no experience. There is potato, there is (indistinct), there is (indistinct-Sanskrit). You know these three things. Sara bhuri kara. Kara bhuri sara. Just like they are making arrangement in the laboratory. Companies are there. They present in such a way, that he was flying in the sky, and big sputnik and very small town. Do you know that man came?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Man came and said he could do anything. Make any trick or illusion. (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: And they have done so in the matter of moon planet. They've never gone there by laboratory arrangement. Arizona?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Arizona.

Prabhupāda: That's all. That is their business. They might have presented such devices in a book, a different color. Just like medical science. The preparation is nothing, but they'll employ big, big medical students to write in such a way that it will be presented as very important. They are doing this. We have done in Dr. Bose's laboratory. They employ. (speaks garbled words to sound like big words) Go on speaking. (laughter) It sounds very nice. What is the meaning of? (more garbled phrases) So I have got my own common sense. I understand. (indistinct) in the Vedic literatures. (indistinct comments by devotees)

Room Conversation -- October 12, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, that I have already explained. I don't want to go to hospital.

Kīrtanānanda: So that is not necessary. (Prabhupāda coughs heavily) (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā Mahārāja has come from Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: Come here. (heavy coughing) Mucus is generating, either you take milk or fruit juice. I have given my opinion in that correspondence. And he's a qualified man. If you want him, then somebody may go to him and talk.

Kīrtanānanda: Yes, that should be done. We'll do that today.

Prabhupāda: He wanted to retire and start a clinic here.

Kīrtanānanda: So he can come now.

Prabhupāda: So we can help.

Kīrtanānanda: Yes. It's a very good idea.

Prabhupāda: So, what is the report, Jayapatākā?

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, the thing is the man who would prepare, he must be experienced. That is wanted. And sincere. Then it will work, either you prepare there or here. When our men...? (devotees talk among themselves softly about who should go to Śrī Raṅgam)

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, in the meantime, some treatment should be there. In the meantime, before you get this makara-dhvaja, some treatment should be there.

Prabhupāda: What treatment?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we were thinking that this Vanamali Prabhu, he has made this medicine. So why not find out what is this medicine from him and you can take that in the meantime. He's made this medicine, Vanamali.

Prabhupāda: What is the benefit?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, according to him, this is makara-dhvaja. I mean, I don't discount that this may be Makara-dhvaja. I am not rejecting it simply on the word of that Rāmānujī kavirāja who was here. Otherwise, then we simply wait for the makara-dhvaja.

Prabhupāda: That we'll do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. I'm always remembering your words, "Some husband must be there."