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Either you... (Conversations 1974 - 1975)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 10, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then if he cannot, then he is cat and dog. He is not a human being. Why he should accept initiation? Let him remain a cat and dog. He promises to follow, and if he cannot follow, then he is nothing but cat and dog. In the court, they take promises, that "In the name of God," "In the name of Bible." So that means he will speak the truth. Similarly, before the fire, before Deity, before guru, before devotees, he is promising something, and if he does not follow, then he is cat and dog. He cannot advance. It is not possible. That is the distinction between cat and dog and human being. Cat and dog, they cannot promise. It is not possible. But a human being can promise. And if he keeps his promise, then he is human being. Otherwise cat and dog. Word of honor. The cats and dogs, they have no sense of honor. Either you kick him or pat, he does not know what is the difference. That is cat and dog. He does not know the distinction. A human being knows what is promise, what is word of honor. (break)

Yaśodānandana: ...you mentioned that the vaiśyas, they are considered to be the capitalists and the śūdras, they are considered to be the Communist. And you mentioned that eventually the communists will take over the capitalists. So how long do you think that will happen?

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: I... Shall I ask you one thing?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) As soon as...

Dr. Patel: What are the pāpas and what are the puṇyas?

Prabhupāda: Pāpa means so long you accept this material body.

Dr. Patel: Is pāpa.

Prabhupāda: Is pāpa. Either you accept as, a material body as Brahmā or as insignificant ant, it is pāpa.

Dr. Patel: Anything is pāpa. Anything is pāpa. Anything which you make removed from God consciousness is pāpa.

Prabhupāda: Just like outlaw. Outlaw means who does not care for the government laws. Similarly, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). The law means dharma, law. Dharma means to accept the laws of God. And what is the law? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is the law. If one cannot accept this, then he's outlaw. Immediately.

Dr. Patel: And that is pāpa.

Prabhupāda: That is pāpa.

Dr. Patel: Anything which makes you removed from God consciousness is pāpa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. That, that is ignorance. I have already explained.

Guest (1): But I feel it is not ignorance...

Prabhupāda: Ignorance...

Guest (1): It is, if he feels in the true sense...

Prabhupāda: No, my point is, either you are in ignorance or in knowledge, you are individual. (break) ...have to, so why so long?

Guest (1): Yes, here, here is... We have to walk quickly there.

Dr. Patel: But we thought you would come late, so we went there.

Guest (1): So you have lost some... (break)

Guest (2) (Indian man): ...paripraśnena sevayā... (break)

Prabhupāda: Either you are in ignorance or in knowledge, both cases you are individual.

Guest (1): In knowledge also we are individual?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...does it mean his nārāyaṇa-seva is wrong?

Dr. Patel: I don't say that nārāyaṇa-seva is wrong!

Prabhupāda: Then it is all right.

Dr. Patel: I did not say that. (break) ...should be given to the people who need it.

Prabhupāda: No, that is your prescription. But annakūṭa, when the annakūṭa is there, the prasāda is there, either you eat or I eat, it doesn't matter.

Dr. Patel: It should be given... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...attitude. You want to dictate to everyone, although you do not know anything.

Dr. Patel: But you...

Prabhupāda: Yes! That is your... Now, you see, understand.

Dr. Patel: I understand...

Prabhupāda: He has performed the annakūṭa ceremony. Either you eat or I eat, where is the difference?

Dr. Patel: Great difference. (break) ...what way?

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But it can be done mad-āśrayaḥ. Āśrayaḥ, to take shelter. "Taking shelter of Kṛṣṇa," you can make this meaning or mad-āśrayaḥ means "one who has taken shelter of Kṛṣṇa."

Mr. Sar: Kṛṣṇa. Correct. Correct. That is correct.

Guest (1): Mad-āśrayaḥ means āśrayaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Either you... Directly it is not possible to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore mad-āśrayaḥ means "one who has taken shelter of Me." That is paramparā system. You take shelter of Him. Then the result will be asaṁśayaḥ.

Passerby: Hello.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Asaṁśayaḥ means at the present moment...

Guest (1): Without any doubts.

Prabhupāda: No... People are in doubt whether there is God, or "If there is God, He might have died by this time." So there are so many... (laughs) Yes. When I first went to U.S.A., the theory was "God is dead." But when I began to speak, they realized, "No, God is not dead. God is with Swamiji." They wrote. They wrote articles. So asaṁśayaṁ...

Mr. Sar: Samagraṁ māṁ. From all aspects.

Prabhupāda: From all aspects. Yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu. So Kṛṣṇa is speaking about Himself. We can speculate about God. That way we'll never be successful. Because we have got limited senses. Therefore you hear from Kṛṣṇa about Kṛṣṇa. This is called bhakti-yoga.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So at the time of death, when everything is disordered, nothing is in order, unless one is very strongly practiced, how he can remember?

Dr. Patel: My father spoke, "Oṁ," and he stopped breathing and...

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Oṁ, oṁ ity eka... That is...

Dr. Patel: Then he stopped breathing.

Prabhupāda: That means he practiced. Therefore, either you practice Oṁ or Hare Kṛṣṇa, that is all right.

Dr. Patel: Whatever we do of our whole, all our whole, all day of life, it comes at the end. That is why you must continue to do for the life.

Prabhupāda: Twenty-four hours. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). Always Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... In this way practicing, if somebody is fortunate enough, he can remember.

Dr. Patel: Eṣā brāhmī sthitiḥ pārtha na... Sthitvā samanta-kāle 'pi brahma-nirvāṇam ṛcchati.

Prabhupāda: So...

Dr. Patel: Therefore at the last moment you... But you can't get that last moment in this position because you have, whole life, you have...

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all. So that is karma. But when you do the same thing for Kṛṣṇa, that is karma-yoga.

Guest (1): But (Hindi), if you do it for others, for Kṛṣṇa, for Kṛṣṇa's...

Prabhupāda: Others... Others means... That is also a humbug. You cannot do anything for others. You do everything for yourself. That is a false propaganda. You see? That is humbugism. So either you can do for yourself or for Kṛṣṇa. That's all.

Guest (1): I see. (Gujarati)

Prabhupāda: (break) ...become a slogan nowadays. Nobody does for others. "For others," "For the poor," these are all humbug.

Guest (1): You think people are doing something hospitals, that is for others?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is also puṇya-karma.

Guest (1): (Hindi) Helping these temples, hospitals...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Temple construction is different from hospital construction. That is for Kṛṣṇa.

Guest (1): But suppose somebody's doing hospitals. Is it not for others?

Prabhupāda: Yes. But how many you can give shelter? A few. There are so many suffering people. You cannot provide hospitals for all of them. The hospitals are increasing, and the disease also increasing.

Guest (1): No, as you say that doing for others is humbug.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Humbug means he cannot do it.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Answer.

Dr. Patel: It will be unanswerable by me. I have to submit. Otherwise you may fire me unnecessarily and create trouble, and I create trouble for you.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. I will not fire. I'll not fire. We are coming to reasoning. Without paripraśna, reasoning... Either you should accept that you should not, anyone, recommend any imitation...

Dr. Patel: We accept God what is written in the Bhagavad-gītā, all right, in toto.

Prabhupāda: Therefore, if we are actually student of Bhagavad-gītā, we should accept it in total instead of deviating from that. That is my request. We are teaching that. Why one should deviate?

Indian man (2): Kṛṣṇa is one reality. He may have many forms. He may have many names. Kṛṣṇa is one reality. He is correct. But He can have many names. Eko sad-viprā bahudhā vadanti.

Prabhupāda: Bahudhā vadanti, but bahudhā are mentioned. Mentioned. Just like Viṣṇu-sahasra-nāma. That is in the śāstra. Therefore, if you take one of the names, then you have to refer to the śāstra, not that you manufacture one word. That you cannot do.

Indian man (2): The śāstras were also made by men, sages.

Prabhupāda: No, no, then which one you will accept?

Indian man (2): ...by the realized person.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, very short. Short mean their short. It may take little more time.

Girirāja: Now they have machines that when the person is in coma, the machines artificially keep the heart beating and the other processes...

Prabhupāda: Then heart beating will go on, either you apply machine or no machine. Heart beating. But when the heart stops, no machine can revive it. So what is the use of machine? But by nature's way when the heart beating will stop, no machine can help. That is not possible.

Girirāja: So the doctors face a dilemma, that they keep the heart going by the machine, but they don't know whether the patient is actually living or dead. So they are afraid to stop the machine. They don't know how to decide when to stop the machine.

Prabhupāda: But when they stop it...?

Girirāja: Then the patient is dead. (laughter)

Yaśomatīnandana: That is the modern science, so imperfect. They don't even know whether a person is live or dead.

Prabhupāda: What do they know? They know something, but everyone knows. Even the birds and beasts, they also know something.

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Well, first of all try to understand what is written in the Bhagavad-gītā. Then you try to understand the philosophy. It is simple thing. Kṛṣṇa says that annād bhavanti parjanyāt. So there is no need of dvaita philosophy or advaita philosophy. You require anna to maintain the animals and living men. Practically. Dvaita philosophy and advaita philosophy, this is controversial. But even though we agree to dvaita philosophy or advaita philosophy, the question of food grain will be required, either you become dvaita philosophy or advaita philosophy.

Guest (1): What I mean to say is do you believe that the soul and God is one as Rāmānuja and Śaṅkarācārya says, or as Madhvācārya says...

Prabhupāda: We are speaking from the Bhagavad-gītā as it is. What Śaṅkarācārya says, what Rāmānujācārya says, that we shall consider there. You try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Bhagavān says in the Bhagavad-gītā that dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So dehinaḥ means the possessor of the body, the owner of the body. That is the soul. So that you cannot deny, either you follow Śaṅkarācārya or Rāmānujācārya. There is soul within the body. This is Bhagavad-gītā says. Dehino 'smin, asmin dehe. Just like I was a child, I remember; you remember also. So that body is now gone. But I have got a different body, you have got a different body. But I am existing. So I am dehinaḥ, dehī, and my body is deha. So deha-dehī, there must be distinction. The body is not the owner. I am the owner. Just like I am sitting within this room, I am not this room; similarly, I am sitting within this body, you are sitting within your body. So you are not body. This is call illusion.

Guest (2): What is the ultimate aim of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: ...oba. Mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām. Adānta-gobhir viśatām... (aside:) Not too near. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām, getting life after life and enjoying sense: the same eating, the same sleeping, the same sexual intercourse, and same defense, either as dog or as man or as bird or beast. This is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). These four things are available, either you become a dog or a god. Not God, these demigods. In the material world, everyone is given the facilities for eating, sleeping, sexual intercourse and defense. Now, if some dangers come, so we may be victims, but a bird immediately goes. He has better defense. Is it not? If some dangers come immediately... Suppose all of a sudden a motorcar comes and kills us. We cannot do anything, but the bird, small bird, "Hut!" He can do that. Is it not? So his defensive measure is better than us. Similarly, I want to have sex. I have to arrange for that, find out some... But the female bird is always around him, at any time. This sparrow, the pigeon. You have seen it? Immediately ready for sex life. And eating? Oh, there is some fruit. Immediately he can eat. And sleeping? That is also very comfortable. So these facilities, don't think that it is available on this skyscraper building. They are available for the birds and the beasts. It is not that unless you have got a very nice apartment in the skyscraper building, you cannot have all these facilities of eating, sleeping and sex life. Anywhere. Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. This is called viṣaya. Viṣaya means the facilities for sense enjoyment. That is called viṣaya. Our process is viṣaya chāḍiyā se rase majiyā. One has to give up this viṣaya and relish the transcendental bliss. It is a different platform. And these persons, bodily concept of life, their only enjoyment is this viṣaya. So śāstra says that you are after viṣaya. This is available in any life. Why you are repeating this viṣaya in different forms of life either as bird or beast or tree or human being or cats and dogs? Punaḥ punaś carvita carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Again and again, the same thing, in different forms. So those who are interested with this viṣaya, matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā, they cannot become Kṛṣṇa conscious, parataḥ, by instruction of spiritual master or experienced person, or by themselves.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Ah, mad-bhāvam āgatāḥ. Mad-bhāvam, "My nature." "My nature" means spiritual nature. Kṛṣṇa is spirit. Or the another nature. This is material nature. This is another nature. That is kingdom of God, spiritual nature, Vaikuṇṭha planet. Āgatāḥ: "They came." Every information is there, every opportunity is there. Simply they are not educated. Therefore the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for educating these rascals. That's all. They are mad after sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ, mad. From the morning, as soon as they rise, "Give me a cup of tea, immediately I have to go to there and there and there." What you will do then? "Yes, I will die. I will die in a motor accident. They are waiting for me." All right, go. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). All kinds of forbidden works they are doing. What? What is the purpose? Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaye. Purpose is only sense gratification. The rascal does not know that "I am doing all these sinful activities for sense gratification, and I will have to accept a very low-grade body." That he does not know. He has already got one low-grade body. He is suffering only. And he will still get another low-grade body, more suffering. That he does not know. But still, he will do everything for sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti na sādhu manye: (SB 5.5.4) "Oh, it is not good." Na sādhu manye yata ātmano' yam: "This kind of activities will cover your soul by body." "Well, this body is temporary. Don't bother." Then another body, rascal. This body is temporary, but you get another body, most abominable. Why you are doing like this? Asann api. Although this body is temporary, but why don't you understand that it is kleśada: It is always subjected to miserable condition of material life. Kleśada. This is kleśada, another body you get, kleśada. Any body you get, kleśada. Why do you get this? Stop these activities. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That they do not know. Da means "that gives." Any type of material body you accept will be kleśada. They have constructed this building. If for few hours there is severe cold, so many people will die, even in this comfortable building. Is it not? So kleśada is there; either you remain in this way or that way, the sufferings will be there. And to take this comfort of this high building, how much kleśada, how much miserable condition, one has to pass. "Sir, I am not doing; the workers are doing."

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: What are these... Wherefrom these birds and dogs are coming? Let them answer. Wherefrom they are coming?

Nitāi: Well, they would say from other birds and dogs.

Prabhupāda: Yes, other birds or these birds, wherefrom they are coming?

Satsvarūpa: But that's not my condition. I am a human being.

Prabhupāda: That you may think, but you do not know the nature's law. You have to accept. Just like this apartment, either you accept or somebody accept. Similarly, these bodies are apartment. You have to accept or your brother has to accept. Somebody must accept. They are also living entities. Wherefrom they are coming? As I am a living entity, they are also living entity. So changing body, I may change to that body, he may change to this body. Where is the unreasonableness? We are all living entities. These are different types of bodies. So we have to accept some body. Similarly, he has to accept some body. So he may accept my body, I may accept his body. This apartment change. I may go to this apartment, he may go to another apartment. But there are so many apartments, gṛha. Therefore it is called gṛhamedhī. If you say, "No, no, I am not going to accept that apartment." "No, no, it is not your judgement." Daiva-netreṇa. "What money you have got, sir, to occupy?" "I have no money." "All right, then go this apartment." You must accept. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). By your work it will be ascertained what kind of apartment you will get. It is not upon your decision. There are so many, many rascals. They think that after getting human body, he is never degraded. The theosophists think like that. That is very palatable. (laughing) But nature will force him to accept the body of a cat and dog. That is not your decision. Daiva-netreṇa, the superior decision. Just in office, you get promotion or degradation. That is not your decision. That is the decision of the higher directors. You cannot say that "No, no, I am not going to accept this post." No. You have to accept. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22).

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: Well, as I said, to that extent we do try to improve a man's understanding, a man's understanding of the world, and I agree it's the developed world, the industrialized world, and the...

Prabhupāda: But if he has no brain, if he is not guided by the brain, or if he has no brain, so what is the understanding? Understanding is "I have got money. Now let me drink," that's all. There must be...

C. Hennis: First of all, you can't force a man to be governed by his brain either. You can't force a man to use his brains.

Prabhupāda: Therefore brain is... The United Nation, how the world society should keep a class of men who act as brain and guide everyone so that everyone becomes happy.

Yogeśvara: That is our movement.

C. Hennis: I think that that's a...

Prabhupāda: That is our movement.

C. Hennis: ...a valid... That's a valid point, because it has always been found in every society that there is a need for a priestly class or a class of philosophical leaders of one kind or another. And the fact of this is recognized in the whole of the world society. I think not only in the West, but in the East, too, there's a need for the religious...

Room Conversation with Monsieur Roost, Hatha-yogi -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: So bhakti school does not very much appreciate the speculative method. They surrender and they try to get knowledge directly from the Supreme Lord, as Bhagavad-gītā is being spoken by the Supreme Lord, or statements of the pure highly elevated devotees, just like Brahmā is speaking. This way. Hearing. The main purpose is hearing, hearing from the right source. That is... Especially in the western world, instead of hearing from the right source, they want to speculate about the Absolute. We have got about twenty books like this, but they are not speculation. They are simply by hearing. I am writing what I have heard, not that I am speculating. Mostly, the philosophers, they write as they speculate. They write their own opinion. But our process is not that. We don't speculate. We present the statements of God and His devotees. There is the whole book. Anywhere you won't find, "I think," "In my opinion," "Perhaps it should be like this way." No. We don't do that. As soon as there is "perhaps" or "maybe," that is not perfect knowledge. That is speculation. Just like in the Padma-Purāṇa, there is statement of different species of life, jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi, statement that "There are 900,000 species of life in the water." It is not written like this, "Perhaps," "it may be." No. Neither says one million or 800,000. No. 900,000 specifically. So how do they get this knowledge, exactly seeing? Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati (?). Now, in another place, the magnitude of the soul is explained. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya (CC Madhya 19.140). In the Upaniṣad also it is stated that 10,000th part of the top of the hair point, is the magnitude of the soul. Our knowledge is accepted in that way, Vedic knowledge. Whatever is stated in the Vedas, that is taken as Absolute Truth and we accept it. And that is fact. If you go to the same point by experimental truth, you will come to the same conclusion. So we think that by experimental knowledge, why should we waste our time? Better take the truth which is already stated in the Vedic literature and build up your farther premises on that basic principle. Just like that small fragment of spirit, 1/10,000th portion of the top of the hair, is there within you, within me, and that is rotating through the air, prāṇa, apāna, vyāna, like that, the vāyu. The yogic process is to capture it. But that is a fact, that the spirit soul is there within this body. It is a fact. So either you try to understand or capture it by the yogic process or you know it, that there is the soul within the body, the result is the same. Therefore you will find in the Bhagavad-gītā at the end of the Sixth Chapter that the bhakta-yogī is the topmost yogi.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: What interests them is the underlying nature of our spiritual practice as opposed to theirs. For example, for them spiritual life is the prayer, salvation in Lord Jesus Christ. And they're not quite sure... They're interested in knowing what is our relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Is it the same or...

Prabhupāda: We are also thinking of Kṛṣṇa always. Eh? Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). We are chanting, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa..." We are always remembering Kṛṣṇa. So the real process is... Either you think of Kṛṣṇa or son of Kṛṣṇa, it doesn't matter, but you should always think of Him. That is the requisition. That is recommended. That is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, Ninth Chapter.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ (BG 18.68).

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Translation.

Nitāi: "Engage your mind always in thinking of Me, offer obeisances and worship Me. Being completely absorbed in Me, surely you will come to Me."

Prabhupāda: That's all. Now either you engage your mind in Kṛṣṇa or Jesus does not matter. It is same thing. But this is the process. "Engage your mind in Me." Then?

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Prabhupāda: So we are teaching this, that engage your mind to God or the son of god; it doesn't matter. But your mind should be godly engaged. That's all. That is meditation. That is real meditation: "Always think of Me." And in another place, in Sixth Chapter, you see,

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ
mad-gatenāntarātmanā
śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ
sa me yuktatamo mataḥ
(BG 6.47)

"The first-class yogi is he who is always thinking of Me." So it doesn't matter you are Christian, I am Hindu. The real point is that think of God or God's representative always. That is the point.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: At the time of danger, we remember providence or God. That is also good. So that is a Hindi proverb that duhkse sab hari bhaje, sukse bhaje kol, sukse ajar hari bhaje, duhka ase hay(?). Means "When one is in danger, he remembers God, and when he is in happiness he forgets God. Therefore if he remembers God always, then where is danger?" So our business is to become God conscious. Then there will be no anxiety. So we are preaching that, I, here, that you become God conscious. Death is there. You cannot save yourself. Either you are on the land or on the plane, death will be there. You must be prepared for the death. But if by practicing remembering God, even at the time of death you continue to remember God, then your life is successful. Death will be there. You cannot stop that. Ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ (SB 2.1.6). So if at the time of death we can remember God, then our life is successful. Therefore, before death we shall mold our life in such a way that always thinking of God. Man-manā bhava mad... Satataṁ cintayanto mām. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām (BG 9.14). This is life. We should always remember God. Then we must know who is God otherwise how can I remember? If I have no idea of God, then how can I remember? So we must know what is God. We must remember always God. We must become a devotee of God. In that way we can save ourself from the anxiety. Otherwise it is not possible. Because a God-conscious man, he knows that "I'll die. Everyone will die; I'll also die." But his concern is: "At the time of death, I shall remember Kṛṣṇa." That's all. Then his life is successful. Death we cannot avoid. There must be. Tyaktvā deham. We have to give up this body. But the question is how I shall give up this body. The cats, dogs, they also give up their body, and I'll also have to give up my body. But shall I give up the body like cats and dogs, or as human being? That is the process. Therefore one should, a human being should prepare himself how to give up this body. That is humanity. Kṛṣṇa says... Find out this verse. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9).

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Guru-gaurāṅga: You, anyone.

Prabhupāda: You means anyone.

Robert Gouiran: As a person.

Prabhupāda: You are also one of them. Either you or your friend, they cannot. It is impossible.

Robert Gouiran: So you mean that nobody should...

Prabhupāda: I don't say that. Why do you take in a different way? I say you cannot heal.

Robert Gouiran: Cannot heal.

Prabhupāda: Now in spite of this fact, if you try to do it, (it's) your business. But I say you cannot heal. If you want to go on, in spite of your inability to heal, that is your business, but I say I challenge that you cannot heal. That is my proposition. Now you go on with your business, that in spite of being unable to heal, if you go on healing activities, you go on. Who takes you? But I say you cannot heal. You are other (indistinct). Nobody can heal. What is that? Is that all right?

Yogeśvara: It's very strong.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is a fact.

Robert Gouiran: Do you mean that nobody could be cured?

Prabhupāda: Where is the cure? Show me that this man is cured from disease.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: That is means conditional religion. That is not absolute religion. In order to, what is called, summarize all types of religion... Just like Kṛṣṇa says, mama vartmānuvartante manuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ, "Everyone is trying to come to Me." So they are coming by different paths. So that is accepted. Now, when he says that "I am here. You're coming to Me, now you just surrender. Then everything is all right." Why don't you accept that? Why do you insist, "No, I shall come in a different way, different path"? What is this nonsense? God is saying "All right, you have got different paths, but give up that. Now simply surrender to Me." Where I am objection? If I am a really lover of God, God is saying like that, why not accept that? Why shall I pay for different paths? Eh? Suppose in this jungle you are scattered and you are searching "Where is Prabhupāda? Where is Prabhupāda?" And somebody says, "Come this way. Come this way." And if I say, "Not this way, that way. Come here. Come here." What is your objection? Eh? Either you don't want me... (laughs) Eh? You don't want me. You want to play some whimsical way. You are not serious about me? If you're actually serious about God, God says here, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām e... (BG 18.66). "Give up all this nonsense. Just surrender un..." Why they do not accept it. Eh? What is your answer, Satsvarūpa?

Satsvarūpa: I think your answer's that they want to play a kind of hide and seek. They don't really want to go.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is their foolishness. They don't want to go.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: But search. That's all right. Search means you do not know, therefore searching. But if you're searching for something and you get that something then why you should search any more? Searching means you do not know. You're searching. But if I say "Come here. I am here." Just like child is crying. There is no toys, his mother... Mother says, "Child, come here." He comes here. That's all. That is real searching. Or what is this searching? Either you do not know what you are searching or you are making a false play.

Devotee: Right.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Is this one bathroom? Religion means actually relation with God, to know God. They don't think like that. They say religion does not mean search of God. Is it not?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They say that there's one place that you cannot see God.

Prabhupāda: That's all right but what do you mean by religion first of all? I cannot see God. That is another thing. But that does not mean there is no God.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: I cannot see the president. That does not mean there is no president.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: Because I cannot see therefore there's no president. Is that very good logic?

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Muhammadanism also Vaiṣṇavism, because Muhammad says, "I am servant of God, Allah." So that is our conception, dāsya-rasa, dāsya. Śānta, dāsya, sakhya, vātsalya, mādhurya. So prayer, offering prayer, that is also bhakti. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam arcanaṁ vandanam. Just like we are worshiping Deity and somebody is offering prayer—both of them are approved. Prayer, vandanam. Dāsyam sakhyam ātma-nivedanam. So we don't say that this is bad and this is good. No. Both of them are bhakti. To worship the Deity or to offer prayer, the effect is the same. Effect is not different. Either of these nine processes,

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ
smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam
arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ
sakhyam ātma-nivedanam
(SB 7.5.23)

Either you follow all the nine principles or eight or six or seven, at least one, then you become perfect. That is our preaching. Just like Akrūra, the example is given. Akrūra got perfection simply by offering prayers. So I see when the Christian go to the church, in India I have seen, in Bombay especially, they kneel down and offer prayer. That's very good. We do not say that this is not approved. This is also approved. What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa? This is also prayer. Hare Kṛṣṇa, "O Kṛṣṇa, O the energy of Kṛṣṇa, kindly engage me in Your service." This is the meaning of Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is prayer. Repeatedly praying, "My Lord, the energy of Lord, kindly engage me in Your service." This is the meaning of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Just like you go to a mercantile firm with application, "Please give me some service. Give me some service," the same thing, appealing to God and His energy, "Please engage me in your service."

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: He is supplying for everyone. So if He does not supply, then what your bakery machine will do? It is useless. So people have lost the intelligence in the Communist countries. They think that these government men, they have brought the bread, not God. In this way, they are gradually becoming atheist. But the central point is God. We are preaching the central point is God. You call Him by any name, it doesn't matter, either you call Jehovah or Kṛṣṇa or something, Allah, that doesn't matter. But you accept the authority of God and try to love God. This is our mission. And we say God is person. Impersonal feature, that is a feature only. Just like sun-god is a person and the sunshine is one of the feature of the sun-god. The sunshine is not final. You have to penetrate to the sunshine and reach the sun globe and go within the globe and see that there is the sun-god. But that requires strength how to enter into the sun globe and see this. But there is the information in the Bhagavad-gītā: imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam, vivasvān manave prāha (BG 4.1), "I first of all instructed this yoga system of Bhagavad-gītā to the sun-god." The sun-god is there in the sun planet, and if you have got strength, you can go there and see. But you cannot go, although it is material. So similarly, in the spiritual world there is the Supreme Spirit, Supreme Being, He is spiritual, concentrated, essence of light. That is ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). He is the origin of everything. And He says, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). Find out this verse. Find out. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Satsvarūpa: Not enough meat fast enough, they're eating so much beef.

Prabhupāda: No, fast, fast. Fast means you have to eat the cow's flesh. So how you can make it fast? The cows' number are the same. So it will remain the same. Simply you wait for the natural death. Where is the restriction? You have got a limited number of cows. Either you wait for the death, or you kill it at once, the number of cows are the same. So we simply request you that you don't kill them. Wait for the natural death and take it. What is the wrong? The number of cows is the same. You cannot increase it. Increase or decrease, the number of cows is there. So we simply request you that so long they're alive, let us take it's milk, and give nice foodstuff to the human society.

Yogeśvara: If they don't kill it, they'll be even more cows.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: If they don't kill the cow, then they will have even more meat, because then the cow will have more time to reproduce, more calves. If they don't kill the cow right away.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yogeśvara: There'll be even more cows.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: No. It is not different level. The advice is given according to the time, person. So if people follow Lord Christ and, I mean to say, instruction that is also perfect. But they do not follow.

Professor Durckheim: They do not...

Prabhupāda: They do not follow.

Professor Durckheim: Sure...

Prabhupāda: That's it. Otherwise either you follow Bhagavad-gītā or Bible as they are, then you become gradually perfect. The difficulty is they do not follow. And still they're claiming "I am Christian." "I am Hindu." "I am this." "I am that." Rubber stamp. No qualification but rubber stamp. This is the defect. (German) (break)

Vedavyāsa: ...qualifications on the material platform.

Prabhupāda: First of all acquire this material qualification. Then talk of spiritual. (German) Just like I think in the university if one wants to learn about law he must be graduate first of all.

Dr. P. J. Saher: In India. Yes.

Prabhupāda: So you, first of all become graduate then talk of law books. Similarly, you first of all become a brāhmaṇa. Then you understand about Brahman, Absolute Truth. Without becoming brāhmaṇa how you can understand? (German) (break)

Satsvarūpa: (reading from Bhagavad-gītā) "...three modes of material nature and the work ascribed to them, the four divisions of human society were created by Me, and although I am the creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the nondoer, being unchangeable." (German) (break)

Morning Walk -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (aside:) Just from distance, not so near. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). Duḥkha. Duḥkha means suffering. Ālayam. Ālayam means place. So the creator of this universe, the Supreme Lord, He is saying, "This is a place for suffering." And it is called Mṛtyu-loka, "For death, the planets for dying." That means death is unnatural to the eternal soul. But anywhere you live within this material world, you will die. That is material world. Either you live as a Brahmā or live as a small insect, ant, you must die. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate: (BG 8.19) death and again take birth, death and again take birth. But these rascals, they do not know: "This is natural, that's all." That one can stop this death and birth, they have no knowledge. And still, they are big, big scholars. They do not know that this movement is for stopping birth and death. Do they understand this?

Haṁsadūta: No.

Prabhupāda: They cannot believe it. They have no so brain.

Satsvarūpa: They say, "Well, that's the way you think in the East. It is very interesting."

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is that?

Pater Emmanuel: We talk God, "Father," or "our Father."

Prabhupāda: No, "Father..." Just like your son may call you, "Father," but you have got a name also, "Mr. such and such." My son, your son, everyone's son calls his father, "father." But the father has a name also. Similarly, God is the general name, but still, He has got a particular name. And that name is Kṛṣṇa. And that is accepted by Jesus. Jesus the Christ or Jesus the son of Christ or Kṛṣṇa. And he identified himself as the son of God. Therefore the name of God is... Either you call Kṛṣṭa or Kṛṣṇa or Christo, it doesn't matter. The name of God is Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṭa.

Pater Emmanuel: Yes, when we can't speak of a name of God, of a proper name... (German)

German devotee: He says that when we speak of a real name of God, that is Christos.

Prabhupāda: This Christos means Kṛṣṇa. (German)

Pater Emmanuel: Because a name is of God. We know the name of God only by revelation, by revelation of the son of God because the son of God is also God. He has the three personality: God, father, son and holy ghost. And the son has revealed the name of father, and His name is, who has revealed is Christos, Christ. And also you can as a name or all you take Christ, Jesus Christ.

Prabhupāda: So it doesn't matter, Kṛṣṇa or Christ. The name is there. And we are recommending according to Vedic scripture that in this age one should simply chant the holy name of God.

Room Conversation with Reverend Gordon Powell, Head of Scots Church -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Reverend Powell: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And God or God's representative, whatever they say, that is not meant for a limited area.

Reverend Powell: Right.

Prabhupāda: That is not. Either you take Christian principle or Hindu principle, what is real principle, really principle, that is applicable everywhere.

Reverend Powell: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like Christ said that "Thou should be, one should be meek and humble to go to, back to home, back to..." Eh? It is not?

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So this is for everyone.

Reverend Powell: Yeah. (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not limited within the Christian community. Everyone.

Reverend Powell: Well, it's a great privilege to talk with you, Your Grace. And, uh, you must be tired, you've got a big day tomorrow. I'm mustn't keep you. If I may.

Prabhupāda: Just here, please wait. Little, take little. Bring that sweetball. Sit down please, one minute. You have been today there today in meeting?

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, not a single person. Actually he remains slave, artificially he thinks that "I am master." Just like Nixon was thinking. He was actually slave of the nation, but he was thinking, "I am master." When he was pressed too much, he had to admit, "Yes, I am your slave." He was pressed. Rather, oppressed. Nobody is thinking. Idam adya mayā labdham imaṁ prāpsye punar dhanam. Everyone is thinking, "I have got now so much money (indistinct) ...lot of money, so who is better than me?" (indistinct) She has become poet. Nonsense number one, and she is poet. Does not know the human psychology or animal psychology. The human psychology, animal psychology, that you have seen on the road, the sex. The animal does not require any education. The animal knows how to use sex; the man knows how to use sex. Where is the difference? Simply she is animal, she does the sex intercourse in a public street, animal (indistinct) an apartment, very nice apartment (indistinct). It is (indistinct), either you are dog or a human being, the fact is. He also sleeps. He sleeps on the street anywhere, and we sleep in a nice apartment. He also eats, and the human being also eats. He eats the stool and we eat very nice, palatable foodstuff. That sleeping propensity is there, sex life is there, and he is also afraid of enemies. Where is the difference? Difference is that dog cannot be taught Kṛṣṇa consciousness but a man can be taught. That is the difference. So if man does not take advantage of this human life, how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he is no better than a dog. He has no (indistinct)

Devotee (1): So her poetry is just like the braying of the ass.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Well, in the eyes of the law, when you go to the court, if somebody has stolen some diamond and if somebody has stolen some insignificant thing, in the court the six month prison is there. The man who has stolen an insignificant thing, the judge does not make any concession for him. "You have stolen, you must go to the jail." And the man who has stolen the diamond, he also takes the same term. So stealing is stealing. Either you steal diamond or a little fruit, it doesn't matter. The punishment is the same for the diamond-stealer and anything-insignificant-stealer. That is the law.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He still does not understand how we can say that one activity is bad or good. For example, he said that we gave the example of thieves, but that implies that previously there was already a standard that "This is good, and this is bad." But he wants to know how he can know definitely what is good and what is bad.

Prabhupāda: To become God conscious is good, and anything else, all bad. God is good. Therefore, if you are God conscious, you are good, and if you are not God conscious, then you are bad.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): If God created man?

Prabhupāda: Yes. God created everything. God created man, God created dog, God created demigods, God created everything.

Professor: He made us imperfect.

Prabhupāda: No, He is not imperfect.

Professor: No, God made us imperfect.

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: God means controller. God is not name. Just like the president, Mr. Ford. That is name, and president is the controller. So every controller has got name. So why the supreme controller will not have any name? That is ignorance.

Lady (Hṛdayānanda): She's saying that Christ said that "I am the way."

Prabhupāda: Well, every guru is the way to approach God. That's a fact. But he has got his name, Christ. So why do you deny this name? "Christ says,"—that means either you take him anything, but he has a name, Christ.

Lady: No.

Prabhupāda: No? What is this? (laughter) That is your conception. It is not Bible's conception. Bible says the son of God is Christ. You can create by mental concoction anything, but if you refer to the Bible, the name is Christ. Everyone says, all Christians says, all Christians says, "the Jesus Christ." Why do you deny it?

Lady (Hṛdayānanda): Māyāvāda. She says that everyone has the Christ within him.

Prabhupāda: No, we don't agree with all these things.

Lady (Hṛdayānanda): If we agree with Buddhist consciousness?

Prabhupāda: No, no, whatever consciousness may be, I say that in the Bible it is said that son of God is Christ. His name is Christ. How you can deny the name? No, no, that is their interpretation, "Christ means 'I am.' " They want to interpret in their own way. There is name. How can you deny it?

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. "How nice barking. Oh, how he has learned to bark." Just see. We are not so fools. Kṛṣṇa yei bhaje sei baḍo catura: "The first-class intelligent man is he who is Kṛṣṇa conscious." Sei baḍo catura. All rascals. Kṛṣṇa said, na māṁ duṣkṛtinaḥ mūḍhāḥ. "Oh? Also very scientist?" māyayāpahṛta-jñānā: "They have no knowledge, all rascals." Kṛṣṇa says. māyayāpahṛta-jñānā, that he is not thinking, that "Suppose I can produce life by chemical combination, then what is my credit? The life is already there. It is going on very nicely." What do you think, Balavanta? If the things are going on nicely, then where is my credit? Either you say, "by chance," or "by God's arrangement," "by nature," but things are going on nicely. So it is same thing, to learn how to bark, that's all. Barking is going on, but he wants to take credit by learning how to bark. That's all.

Mādhava: They try to imitate God.

Prabhupāda: That's all. That he cannot, and that is his foolishness. Therefore we say that you are cheating. Things are already there, going on. What is your credit?

Rūpānuga: The scientists are trying to be the hero. Kṛṣṇa is the hero. He has done everything first, and the scientist wants to be the hero.

Prabhupāda: So you have to present like this, that "What is the credit? Suppose by chemical composition you can manufacture one ant. That is not possible. Be assured you will never be able. That we are assured. But even if you are able, then what is your credit? The credit is the man has learned how to bark like a dog. That's all, this much credit."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, if they are able to make life, then they are going to say that there's no God.

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Others will follow.

Devotee: The mass will follow. Some other times I've heard you say, like the other day, that the masses of people... When Balavanta Prabhu was running for office you were saying that it'd be very difficult to get our present-day leaders to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I'd just like to try to understand further, whether it is the masses or the leaders?

Prabhupāda: No, we are dealing generally with the masses. But if we can convert one leader, then it is equal to turning many people in the mass. That is the idea. Some way or other, we are doing Kṛṣṇa's service. Either you serve the mass or the leader, it doesn't matter. Your service is recognized.

Tripurāri: Sometimes the devotees question, if they were pure, then they could get everyone to take a big book. It's simply our fault that we're not pure enough that we can't get everyone to take a big book. Or is it just that we can't engage everyone, we can't get everyone to surrender completely?

Prabhupāda: Well, that is also a devotional attitude. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "I do not love Kṛṣṇa. So that's... And if I would have loved, then I would have died without His presence. But I am living now. Therefore I have no love for Kṛṣṇa." This is another thing. One who is too much addicted to the service of Kṛṣṇa, that is very good sign. So your headquarter is now Pittsburg?

Tripurāri: No, now Philadelphia.

Prabhupāda: Philadelphia, oh.

Tripurāri: It's in Rūpānuga's zone.

Prabhupāda: In the Philadelphia University, I think, there was one Mr. Norman Brown.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: Then you can check.

Reporter: And the only way to surrender is to accept this...

Prabhupāda: Otherwise there is no certainty. You can become demigod also. You can become higher planetary... But you have to change your body. Either you become dog or you can become demigod, but change your body, that is fact.

Reporter: You mean it always comes back as some form of animal?

Prabhupāda: Hmm? What is that?

Haṁsadūta: Whether you always return as an animal?

Prabhupāda: No, not always. There are 8,400,000 forms of life.

Reporter: A hundred thousand.

Prabhupāda: Eight million.

Reporter: Oh.

Prabhupāda: You have to accept one of them. That is according to your quality.

Reporter: Qualities.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Reporter: The quality of my life.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Yes, actually without listening, so many big, big men, they have committed mistake about Bhagavad-gītā. Even Gandhi, he says that "I do not believe that there was a person, Kṛṣṇa, ever living." Just see. What to speak of others. (Hindi) Without listening from the right source, even a personality like Gandhi will commit mistake, what to speak of others. Similarly, Dr. Rādhākrishnan has committed so many mistake. So big, big scholars, they're trying to study Bhagavad-gītā, but they cannot understand. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). You first prepare yourself to surrender, praṇipāta, praṇipāta-prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa nipāta. Without any reservation, surrender, praṇipātena, by the surrendering process, and paripraśnena, by enquiring from the authority. Because it is not very easy to understand Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). Out of many, many million persons one try to understand, one trying to become perfect, siddhaye. Siddhi means perfection. So yatatām api siddhānām: (BG 7.3) "Those who have attained siddhi, perfection, out of many such siddhas," kaścid māṁ vetti tattvataḥ, "maybe one man can understand Me." The first of all to become siddha. Then, after becoming siddha, one may understand Kṛṣṇa or he may not. Actually it is very difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa. But you can understand Kṛṣṇa if you adopt this process: praṇipātena, paripraśnena, sevayā-three things. You have to go to a person where you can surrender, not to a bogus person or one who is not competent to accept your surrender. And then you make question that "Kṛṣṇa says like this. What is the meaning of this?" Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati... (BG 7.3). And sevayā. Three things required: first of all surrender, and then question, and seva. You cannot question by challenging. You have to render service and surrender. Between the two, praṇipāta and sevayā, there is paripraśna. Then you will understand. Upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ jñāninaḥ tattva-darśinaḥ. Tattva-darśi, one who has seen the truth, he can enlighten you. This is the process. Otherwise, even Gandhi, Dr. Rādhākrishnan, Vivekānanda, all they have committed mistake. Aurobindo. Aurobindo has understood little to some extent, but not fully. But if we are fortunate enough, then we can understand Kṛṣṇa very easily. What is that? Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). "My dear Dhanañjaya, Arjuna, there is no more superior truth than Me." So if we accept that, either you say blindly or conscientiously, then that is perfection. Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19)

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is all right. If you accept progress... Just like you are seeing the sun, I am also seeing the sun, the boy is also seeing the sun, but the understanding of the sun may be different. Everyone is seeing the sun. The objective is the same. But a child's understanding of sun and an elderly man's understanding of sun, a scientist's understanding of sun, or one man who has actually gone to the sun planet, there are different categories. Do you accept or not? The sun is there. God is accepted in every scripture. That is a fact. But in the same way, how far He is understood, that is different. That is different. The same example, that everyone is seeing sun: "Here is sun," there is no doubt. But a child's understanding of sun, his father's understanding of sun, or a scientist's understanding of sun, or a person who has gone to the sun planet, his understanding of sun is different. The objective is the same. And everyone is right. Either you understand fully sun or not, as soon as you come before the sun you get the light. The child is getting the light, the scientist is getting the light, and the ordinary person getting the light. Everyone is getting light, heat and light. But their understanding different, of degrees. (break) ...sun-god or sun, no, we don't say that.

Guest: From what you have said in the answer to this gentleman, I thought you meant, sir, when the only perfect...

Prabhupāda: No.

Guest: ...teaching about God is provided through the sun.

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Jaya. (aside:) Stop that also. (break) ...kṛpana bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ, yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). This gṛhastha life is a concession for sex life. Otherwise, there is no need of gṛhastha life. But everything can be used to make the best use of a bad bargain. That is another thing. Actually, to become free from all responsibility and anxieties, if one remains a brahmacārī, that is very good. That is the recommendation of śāstra. But if you cannot... Because the material world is going on under sex impulse, by nature the sex impulse is there. He will agitate you. But if you can control by becoming a rigid brahmacārī, that is better. But it is difficult. Therefore this concession is given. But what is this concession? The concession is sex life. That's all. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi sukhaṁ hi tuccham kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham. It is an itching sensation. And after satisfying the itching sensation, there are so many responsibilities and trouble. But tṛpyanti neha kṛpanāḥ. Those who are kṛpanāḥ, does not know how to utilize this life... So once I have taken to sex life and I am suffering so many after... Of course, now to stop the suffering, the have invented this contraceptive method. He knows there is suffering, but they, in order to avoid this suffering, they're taking this contraceptive method. And that is also suffering. That he does not know. Bhrun hatyā. Contraceptive method means killing the embryo. So that is also another sinful. He's taking so much responsibilities. So either you take contraceptive method or do not take contraceptive method... If you do not take, then the child is born. Then you have to take responsibility. Now they're killing the child, in this way becoming implicated. But if one is trained up to remain a rigid brahmacārī, there is no trouble.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Who wants happiness? I want protect this body—why? Because I am within this body. And if I go away from this body, who seeks for the happiness of this body? This common reason, they have no sense. Why I am seeking happiness? I am covering this body because the body may not be affected by cold. Then why I am seeking happiness of the body from cold and heat? Because I am within the... If I go away from the within the body, then there is no more seeking after happiness. Either you throw it on the street or it is in extreme cold or extreme heat, it doesn't matter. Then who is seeking happiness? That they do not know. For whom you are so busy for happiness? That they do not know. Just like cats and dogs.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But they think they have no time to chant the holy name.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Their philosophy is that to be, in order to be happy, they have to work all day long.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is your philosophy. You are rascals, but we are not working. Why don't you see our example? We are simply living happily.

Satsvarūpa: But they say we're living off their work.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Satsvarūpa: They work and we beg money from them, they say.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prajāpati: And that is exactly the situation today.

Prabhupāda: But that is not God. Just like gold. Gold is everywhere gold. Because it is in Christian country, you cannot say, "It is Christian gold." And because it is in Muslim country, you cannot say, "It is Muslim gold." Gold is the world standard of money. The same gold, dispatched from America, can be accepted in India. Dispatched from India, it can be accepted in Palestine because it is gold. Everyone who knows what is gold, he'll accept it. So God should be like that. And therefore the name Kṛṣṇa, "all-attractive"... When there is gold, either you be Christian, Muslim, Hindu—"Oh, here is a lump of gold. Can I possess it?" That is attraction. So as gold is all-attractive, similarly, God must be all-attractive. And that word is used as Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. One who knows gold, he'll be attracted. Doesn't matter whether he's Hindu or Muslim, Christian, poor, rich man, black, white. It doesn't matter. Here is gold, and everyone... Just like in your country there was gold rush. Eh? In California? From all different parts of the world they came. So gold is gold for everyone. So now one should try to understand or check what is gold. That is required.

Prajāpati: These men, Śrīla Prabhupāda, are very, very puffed up. They think that even such discussions of who God is and what God is, that... They feel they're way past that, and that's for lower class men to discuss.

Acyutānanda: Why do we give anything to them? (?)

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: No, Indian culture is still going on. It is not lost. Otherwise how it is going to your country and bringing you? (laughter)

Ravīndra-svarūpa: A person might argue that the Indians weren't satisfied either; otherwise they wouldn't have taken up the English culture. So what's the difference?

Prabhupāda: No. When you are standing on two boats you'll never be satisfied. It is very dangerous position, you know? Two boats, on the river, and if you put one leg here, one leg here, it is always troublesome. Either you give up this or give up that. Then your position will be safe. But India's position is like that. Two boats, he is standing, and he is troubled.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The English taught devotional service to England. The English were teaching devotional service to England.

Prabhupāda: When?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Because the Indian people, they have such a feeling for bhakti and service. Everywhere in the world we go...

Prabhupāda: But the Englishmen never took that line and when...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Did they teach God consciousness?

Prabhupāda: When our godbrother Acyuta Mahārāja and Bon Mahārāja was sent, Lady Willingdon, he derided them that "You Indian people you come here..." (break)

Rāmeśvara: ...say that Western civilization is very good for the world.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: No.

Prabhupāda: So that is his position. Either he is a foolish rascal or he is not a gentleman, falsely preaching Bhagavad-gītā. That is his position. If you do not know a subject matter, why do you talk about it? Either you mislead or cheat or you are a foolish, you have no science. Similarly, here is a tape recorder, I do not know how the machine is working. If I talk about it authoritatively is it not my foolishness? I can talk about Bhagavad-gītā or something else, but that does mean I know everything about this machine? But he did it like this. He was dealing in politics, and he took up as a mahātmā, a religious man. That was his cheating.

Paramahaṁsa: So because people are so much in darkness about religion, therefore they say...

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone is in darkness. If you can make propaganda, the people will be misled. That is not very difficult. Just like from Russia, nobody is communist. But it is going on—the Russia is communist country. I have studied thoroughly. Nobody is communist. Maybe a few only. But it is going on by propaganda that Russia is a communist country. The people in general, they are forced to accept it. That book was written by some man, terrorism. It is terrorism. That's it. By force. Nobody accepts this communist philosophy, I have studied. (everyone gets out of car) They were very, very unhappy. The young man cannot go out of the country. Just see. Restricted. How much uncomfortable he is feeling. Especially in European countries, the young men, they want to go. But they will not allow. They will not allow anything to read except Lenin's literature. What is this? Simply suppressing. Everyone is unhappy. Which way? This way? This is their position. I have seen it directly. And as soon as one is suspected that he is doing otherwise, he will be sent to some unknown camp. Nobody knows where he has gone.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Reincarnation, you are already reincarnated. Where is your that childhood body? Where is that body?

Justin Murphy: Here it is. It's grown.

Prabhupāda: No. No, it is changed.

Justin Murphy: It's grown, it's changed, it's evolved, I have evolved. Just like evolution, I have evolved to the situations...

Prabhupāda: Anyway... Just try to understand. Anyway, that, your boy's body or childhood body is no longer. Either you say changed or grown, whatever you say, it doesn't matter.

Justin Murphy: But they're the same bones, it's the same skin.

Prabhupāda: But you are the same man. That's a fact. You understand that you were a child or you were a boy, youthful boy, jumping. You remember that body, but that body is not existing. That's a fact.

Justin Murphy: I can't agree.

Prabhupāda: And why not? Suppose somebody had seen your childhood body, and for many years he has not seen you, and he all of a sudden comes. Suppose your father's friend. So father introduces. He says, "Oh, you are the same?" He will be surprised because he saw you in a childhood body.

Justin Murphy: But I'm less interested in what...

Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all think that you have changed your body. The other man says, "Oh, you have grown up?" Or... Generally they take it as grown up. But the actual position is the body has changed.

Justin Murphy: But they're the same bones. It's the same skin. My face looks just about the same.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: God consciousness, God consciousness. God is great and I am His eternal servant. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Two words: God is great and I am His eternal servant, I am small. This consciousness is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Jesuit: Do you know the prayer that the Russians use, the Jesus prayer?

Prabhupāda: Any prayer. God is one. Either you pray in a different way, I'll pray in a different way, it doesn't matter.

Jesuit: I know that but I want to know do you know what is known as the Jesus prayer which the Russians use?

Devotee: No, he doesn't know.

Jesuit: It seems to me that you chant, don't you, Hare Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jesuit: That is a prayer, it's a rhythmic chant.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is prayer.

Prabhupāda: Now that is a form of prayer and the Jesus prayer, would you do the same? You would either chant it...? (break)

Jesuit: Aḥ, well, maybe from the point of your giving glory to God, no difference.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, that is spiritual, that is spiritual. To give glory to God, that is spiritual. And otherwise, what do you think of this materiality of this chanting? Chanting is not material. Chanting is spiritual.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But who has made this arrangement, packed up, millions of trees?

Paramahaṁsa: That's just part of nature.

Prabhupāda: Then nature is your father.

Paramahaṁsa: No.

Prabhupāda: You are less than the nature, that you have to accept. Nature has already done. So either you say "nature" or "God," doesn't matter. But you are not bigger. You cannot take the credit.

Paramahaṁsa: No, we are sons of nature, so nature is greater than us.

Prabhupāda: "Sons of nature," that's all right. But why do you take credit, why do you want to take credit more than nature?

Paramahaṁsa: But we'd just like to understand how to use nature, how to work with nature.

Gurukṛpa: No, it says, if you follow the Bible, it says that there was a... God created...

Prabhupāda: They don't follow anything. They don't follow their own... (laughs) Whims, that's all. If you follow Bible, what do the Bible says? Bible says about God. They don't believe in God.

Gurukṛpa: They're rubbish people.

Prabhupāda: Rubbish. That is right conclusion. All rascals and rubbish. That is the right conclusion.

Paramahaṁsa: Just like that man this morning said, "Well, we believe in the Ten Commandments, but we don't follow them. We believe in God, but we don't follow."

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Ah, śamo damaḥ, that's it. Read.

Devotee: Śamo damas tapaḥ śaucam kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca, jñānam vijñānam āstikyaṁ... (BG 18.42).

Prabhupāda: Brahma-karma svabhāva... this is first-class man. Śamaḥ. Śamaḥ means controlling the sense or controlling the mind. And damaḥ, controlling the sense. Now, if either you may be Hindu, Muslim, Christian... Now, if I say, "Please come here. Learn this thing, how to control the mind, how to control the senses," so who will object to it? So if anyone is trained up, it doesn't matter from which sect, which family he is coming, if he has learned how to control the mind, how control the senses, then he becomes first-class man. So we have got everything already spoken by God. If we accept it, then there is unity. But we don't accept, we manufacture something. That is the difficulty.

Yogi Bhajan: Yeah, but let us agree to confer...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Your...

Yogi Bhajan: There will be difficulty.

Prabhupāda: Our difficulty is that we don't agree. If I say, "Come here. Be educated," and if you don't agree, "No, no. I don't want," then how you can be educated? One must agree what God says. They will say, "I believe. We believe." What is the "I believe, we believe"? If you want to become first-class man, then this is the formula: Control your mind, control your senses, be fully in knowledge. Practically apply knowledge in life. So this is first class. Then the second-class men, you see, what is that? Kṣatriya.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Next class. First class, either you say first class or brāhmaṇa. The second class...

Yogi Bhajan: Kṣatri.

Prabhupāda: Kṣatriya, the administrator. They have got(?) śauryam. Then what is the word, śauryam?

Devotee: Heroism.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee: Śauryam...

Prabhupāda: Heroism. That is... Just like Mahārāja Parīkṣit. He was going on his tour, and he saw one black man was trying to kill a cow. Immediately he took his sword, "Who are you? You are trying to kill cow in my kingdom?" This is called heroism. Now, where is that hero? And they are becoming president. How he will command? He is not hero. Everyone has right to live. Why they are killing animals? This is heroism. As soon as he saw that a rascal is going to kill a cow, "Why you are doing this?" Immediately he took his sword. Heroism. Then?

Devotee: "Power, determination..."

Prabhupāda: Power. He must have power, influence. Why he should beg vote, "Give me vote, give me vote, give me vote," begging? Where is power? If he is begging vote, where is power? Formerly the kings... Just like they used to take sword. "If you don't accept me, then I shall kill you." This is power. Śauryaṁ tejam...

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: What is that security?

Siddha-svarūpa: It's false security. (break)

Prabhupāda: And there was no necessity. Still, we shall go. It is very pleasant. (break) One umbrella, if you push, it will open, and if you push down, it will come back. Machine. (break) ...mantra is described in the śāstra just like a potential medicine. If you take it, either you know it or not know it, it will act. And another example is given. Just like fire. If one, the father knows, "This is fire," and throws to the grass, it will be burned. Similarly, if a child—he does not know what it is—if he throws, then that will also burn. (break)

Ambarīṣa: I won't become become involved in any other project besides Kurukṣetra? Just Kurukṣetra.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Ambarīṣa: Jaya, okay. Not even New York.

Prabhupāda: New York is still doubtful.

Ambarīṣa: Yes. (break)

Prabhupāda: But that's a good house, New York?

Ambarīṣa: The one that they have or the one that they're trying to buy? (break)

Prabhupāda: They are trying to buy. Did he send them letter by lawyer?

Morning Walks -- June 18-19, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...khalu sarvataḥ syāt. Viṣaya means sense enjoyment. Now, that boy and the girl, they're taking dogs. The dog is also male and female, and the man is male and female. So viṣaya means sense enjoyment. The sex enjoyment is both; the dogs and the man, they will have. But the man can get Kṛṣṇa; the dog cannot get Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference. Viṣaya, that sex enjoyment, is available both for the dogs and the man. But the man can achieve Kṛṣṇa; the dog cannot. That is special. Viṣaya khalu sarvataḥ syāt. (break) ...of eating, sleeping, mating. That is available in every life. (break) ...another passage is there in Prema-vivarta, janame janame sabe pitā mātā pāya: "In every life, one can get father and mother." Kṛṣṇa guru nahi mile bhajahun re bhāi(?): "But Kṛṣṇa and guru cannot be had in every life." That is only in human life. Otherwise, as soon as there is birth, there is father and mother. Either you become human being or tiger or snake or bird, the father mother is there. But the spiritual father and Kṛṣṇa, that can be obtained in human life, not in every life.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: It is... Very simple answer is: when the mother certifies, "He is your father," that's all. You don't have to make research. That is futile. By research, you cannot understand who is your real father. You can understand your real father only by the certificate of your mother. That's all. Therefore our Vedic mantra says that religion and God cannot be manufactured by speculation. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkena yojayet. Just like this example, father. Father was existing before my birth. So after my birth, with limited knowledge I make research who is my father—you will never find your father. But if you take the certificate of your mother, that is there. Similarly, acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā, things which are beyond our conception, that cannot be established simply by argument, logic, so-called science and philosophy, that is not possible. The same example: by argument, logic, science, philosophy you cannot ascertain who is your father. The only simple method and authorized method is to ask mother, and if she says, "Yes, he is your father..." Similarly, things which are beyond our conception, simply argument will be useless. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkena yo... Tarka means arguments. In another place it is said, tarka, argument, is futile. Tarkaḥ apratiṣṭhaḥ: "By argument, you cannot come to the right conclusion." You can argue in a way; I can argue a better way, he can argue in better way. That is not the system. That will not help. Tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). If you study scriptures, so in the world there are many varieties of scriptures. There is Bible, there is Bhagavad-gītā, there is Koran, there is so on, so on. So which one is correct? That also you cannot decide. Śrutayo vibhinnāḥ, and nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. And if you consult philosophers or scientists, every scientist, every philosopher, differs from the other. Otherwise he cannot become a big scientist. He must give a different view; then he is big scientist. So nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. Then where is the way to understand? The conclusion is mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ: (CC Madhya 17.186) "Mahājana, great personalities, recognized ācārya, what they say, you follow." That is the best system. So anyone who is speaking about God with authority—take for example Jesus Christ; he is speaking in the western world—you accept him. We Indians, we accept Caitanya or Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya. That is the way. That is the way because these ācāryas, these authorities, they are speaking about God. None of them speaking that "You become happy here," no, none of them. Either Christ or Caitanya or Mohammed, nobody has said. So according to the time, circumstances, position, either you follow any one of them as it suits you or, if you can make a comparative study, you follow the best one.

Room Conversation -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then that I cannot say.

Devotee (1): Isn't there a middle of the road?

Prabhupāda: If you are finding so many faults, you give it up.

Devotee (1): No. We're not finding fault.

Prabhupāda: Then there is no other advance, alternative. No alternative. Either you accept or reject it.

Devotee (1): We accept, but we would like some instruction on...

Prabhupāda: No. I have no such knowledge to convince you.

Devotee (1): No, we accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Accept, or if you reject, reject.

Devotee (1): We accept.

Devotee (2): We want to apply it.

Devotee (1): We want to apply it to the world as it is now.

Prabhupāda: No no. You cannot. You are not authorized.

Devotee (1): Well, who is authorized?

Morning Walk -- June 28, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...in India up country. Up country, in northern India. It is very good health, Punjab, because up country. (break) ...place Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says,

māṭā yasya gṛhe nāsti
bhāryā cāpriya-vādinī
aranyaṁ tena gantavyaṁ
yathāranyaṁ tathā gṛham

A man who hasn't affectionate mother at home, neither very good wife, so he should immediately give up that home and go to the forest because for him it is as good, either you remain in forest or in home." (chuckles) How intelligent.

māṭā yasya gṛhe nāsti
bhāryā cāpriya-vādinī
aranyaṁ tena gantavyaṁ
yathāranyaṁ tathā gṛham

(break) ...formerly at least one expected love from mother. That is also being finished. This is the advancement of civilization. Even mother is also not reliable, what to speak of others. A small child sleeps very sound on the lap of the mother because it thinks, "Now I am safe." And the mother is killing child. This is the advancement of civilization. (break) ...has been many cases, a polluted woman has killed his child on account of paramour. In India there have been many cases, killed a grown up child. In recently one of our Godbrother's wife. You know that?

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1975, Denver:

Brahmānanda: They think that sex life for humans is the best, is the better sex life, that the animals, they really don't know how to enjoy.

Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. If you take some palatable thing in different pot, does it mean the taste changes? You take some juice in the golden pot or iron pot. Does it mean the taste of the juice is changed on account of golden pot? That is another foolishness. Taste is the same, either you drink it in golden pot or iron pot.

Kuruśreṣṭha: Bhāgavatam says, "Unless a person is influenced by māyā, how could he do such a thing?"

Prabhupāda: Therefore we say that whatever you are doing under the influence of māyā, it is suffering. It is not enjoyment. (break) This way? (break)

Kuruśreṣṭha: In Kṛṣṇaloka are there asses?

Prabhupāda: Yes, maybe. But they are not these asses. Kṛṣṇa... I don't... the cowherds boys, they are keeping only cows. I never saw any ass or goat.

Satsvarūpa: They killed all those asses. They killed Dhenukāsura and all those...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, there were asses, yes. They killed. But they were asuras, of course, No, that means asses are there.

Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I thought you said that the demons are not in Kṛṣṇaloka. That's just in Gokula, when Kṛṣṇa comes here.

Morning Walk -- July 2, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: They do not know. They have no knowledge. Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ (SB 10.2.32), always impure. Otherwise how they are thinking, so 'ham: "I am same. I am God. I am moving the sun, I am..." Such rascals, they remain always in ignorance. (break) ...no sense that "If I am the same, then why I have fallen down in this māyā?" They say, "It is my līlā. I have become dog. So it is my līlā. I have become hog. It is my līlā." (laughs) This is their philosophy. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Māyāvāda. They are fools, mūḍha. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. They are described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Māyāvādī means māyayāpahṛta-jñānā: "Their knowledge has been taken away by māyā." Fools. Either you call them fool or call them lowest of the mankind or the most sinful, whatever way you can call, they are like that. All good qualifications. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has warned, māyāvādī-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa: (CC Madhya 6.169) "If you hear from Māyāvādī, then your spiritual life is finished." It's so dangerous.

Harikeśa: The Brahmavādīs have some possibility of advancement?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Harikeśa: What is that thing that enables them to advance?

Prabhupāda: That you will know later on. First of all try to understand this. Don't try to understand everything in a moment. That is foolishness. (break) That argument is clear?

Ambarīṣa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That if you call it a machine, how the machine can grow?

Ambarīṣa: The machine is changing at every second.

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Satsvarūpa: They've made some conclusion by their mathematics as to what they can see. Whatever they can't see, it's still more of the same, material sky and planets. There's nothing beyond it.

Prabhupāda: Then seeing and not seeing, the same thing? That is, means you see or not see... Is that mean, that seeing or not seeing? This is contradictory. Either you see or you don't see. These are two things. (laughter) But what is this "I see, I don't see"?

Viṣṇujana: For that, they spend millions of dollars on a telescope.

Prabhupāda: And just see. That which is impossible, they are trying for that. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed, that's all. When your senses are imperfect, then what you will see? Whatever you see, that is imperfect. So what is the meaning of seeing? Therefore our seeing is śāstra-cakṣuṣāt: "We should see through the authorized scriptures." That is our... You will see in the description of Śukadeva Gosvāmī of the whole universe, conclusion, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, "So far I have described as I have heard." He never says, "As I have seen." This is required. (break) ...that we believe in the creation. And others also, just like Christians, they also believe God created. But who has seen God is creating? Who has seen? Simply hear from God. He says, "I have created." That's all. But if you challenge, "I have not seen that You have created; neither I have seen You," then how can you believe? God says, "I have created," so those who are God believers, they will accept that. So what is the use of seeing again, observatory? We trust in God, but don't trust in His word. This is going on. You write in America, "We trust in God," but don't trust in His word. (laughs) Just see. If God you trust, then whatever God says, you believe. "No, that we cannot do." This is the (indistinct). (break)

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: We don't say that. We don't say that. We say that you follow any religious system. Doesn't matter. But you understand God and love Him. That is our propaganda. We do not say that "You are Christian. This is not good. You come here." We do not say. Why say? Everything is... But our proposition is that either you are Christian or Muslim or Hindu, it doesn't matter. You understand God and love Him, that's all.

Lt. Mozee: I recognize, sir, that your time is very valuable and I won't delay you much longer. If I could return to my original purpose for coming in the..., what words you may have that would assist us, my superintendent and my department, in the reduction of crime, other than, I recognize, that the first and the foremost way would be a return to God as you said, that there is no doubt about that. But is there something else that you may know or that you may feel that you may be able to say that would assist us in a reduction less than the ideal?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I have already in the beginning said, that give us facilities, the authorities, to chant the holy name of God and distribute prasādam. Prasādam means...

Lt. Mozee: Yes, I understand.

Prabhupāda: ...some refreshment as remnants of foodstuff of God. Then it will make tremendous change. I came from India alone; now I have got so many followers. So what did I do? I did the same thing. I asked them to sit down, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and distribute them little prasādam. This should be done in a mass scale, and then things will become very peaceful. It is fact. So I want little cooperation of the authorities to give me the facility, how I can call many men together, chant together Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and I supply them little refreshment, that's all.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: No, you have to agree. You open any passage of my book.

Prof. Hopkins: Well, some people would say to insist that Kṛṣṇa is the only way, that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the only way...

Prabhupāda: No, no. The only thing that God is one, that you have to accept. God cannot be many. If God has got competitor, then he is not God.

Prof. Hopkins: Okay.

Prabhupāda: So if we don't admit Kṛṣṇa is the only God then you present who is only God. You say me. Either you have to learn from me or I have to learn from you.

Prof. Hopkins: So to insist...

Prabhupāda: If you do not know what is God you cannot say, "Kṛṣṇa is not God." As soon as you say, "Kṛṣṇa is not God," that means you must know what is God. You present. But if you cannot present, you say, "No, I do not know God," then you cannot say, "Kṛṣṇa is not God."

Prof. Hopkins: All right.

Prabhupāda: So they are dogmatic. Dogmatically they are saying, "Kṛṣṇa is not God." He does not know God and he says, "Kṛṣṇa is not God." So what is this nonsense? You do not know God. How you can say Kṛṣṇa is not God?

Prof. Hopkins: I agree with you, I just... I want to get... (laughter) If we're dogmatic, we're on the same side.

Prabhupāda: We are not dogmatic. Those people who are talking us as dogmatic, he is dogmatic. He does not know God, and when God is presented before him, he says, "No, He is not God." That is dogmatic.

Morning Walk -- September 1, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Syphilis, yes. So in India the syphilis is very horrible disease. So he exclaimed, "Oh, it is horrible." The doctor, that Colonel Maylow(?), he was astonished: "Why you say it is horrible? In your country they suffer, 90%, from malaria. That's not horrible?" So the example is that when you are suffering for a doctor, either you are suffering from malaria or from syphilis, we are suffering from disease. Why you say "This disease is horrible than that disease"? Actually this is the fact. Why should you discriminate? So he chastised him that "As a medical man, you cannot say this disease is more dangerous than that. Every disease is dangerous." Actually you should take that. Suffering, three kinds of suffering—adhyātmika, adhibhautika... The suffering is there. If you say adhyātmika suffering is better than adhibhautika suffering, that is foolishness. Atyantika-duḥkha-nivṛttiḥ. Spiritual life means to end all kinds of suffering. That is spiritual life. Not that I get free myself from this kind of suffering and I accept that kind of suffering. This is not good conclusion. Atyantika-duḥkha. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). This place is duḥkhālayam, full of miseries. And Kṛṣṇa is canvassing, "Why you are suffering? Come to Me." This mercantile community, they are earning money for mitigating suffering, but for earning money they are accepting any means. In future he is creating field of another suffering. That he does not know. He thinks, "Now, if I get money somehow or other, my present sufferings will be mitigated." But he does not know that he is creating another field of suffering.

Brahmānanda: In the next life.

Morning Walk -- September 1, 1975, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: Some boys, they escaped from one country, I think Rumania. And they came to our temple. They had heard about our movement, so they came to our temple. They stayed for a little while, but then they were wanting to leave. So they left, and immediately they were apprehended by the authorities in... I think it was in Sweden. And now they are put into camps, they cannot leave, they have to be processed, and practically they are again in jail. They have no freedom. They cannot get a job. They have no passport. It will take them years to get all the papers in order. They have to be investigated to see that they are not spies. So again they are still in the miserable condition.

Prabhupāda: So miserable condition... That is our conclusion, that either you remain this side or that side, it is miserable. By mental concoction you think that "This is better than that." Therefore Kṛṣṇa says frankly, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). That is only shelter. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam nāpnuvanti (BG 8.15). (break) ...take Kṛṣṇa's words as it is. Everything is there. He said, "This material world is duḥkhālayam; it is the place of suffering." Industrialist, businessman, anyone, even ordinary man, actually everyone is suffering, but everyone is thinking, "I am happy." (break)

Brahmānanda: ...because there is some sex pleasure, that makes it tolerable.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the, what is called, topmost ignorance, topmost ignorance, that "This is happiness." So the materialistic person means only for that happiness they are suffering so much, this way. They agree, "Yes." Just like Dr., er, Bon Mahārāja was speaking that they are talking freely?

Morning Walk -- September 9, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore it is called iṣṭagoṣṭhī, or discussion. Discussion does not take place alone. There must be at least two.

Indian man (1): Dvabhyanaṁ pathanaṁ pathī.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dvabhyaṁ patanam. (Hindi) ...instruction... (Hindi) Either you speak in Bengali or in Sanskrit. (break) Then that is an asset. One day they will come to help us. It is called ajñāta-sukṛtī, devotional advancement without knowledge. Even... (break) ...have appreciated. In Hyderabad, these Māyāvādī sannyāsīs were challenged by the people, that "Bhaktivedanta Swami has gone to foreign countries, and he established so many Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa temple. What did you do? If you say that you disagree with Bhaktivedanta Swami—you worship demigods—so how many demigods' temple you have established?" They challenge like that. "If you say that you are worshiper of Lord Śiva, why don't you go and establish a Śiva temple? You are sitting idly here."

Indian man (2): And Śiva always worshiped Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- September 9, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. That is another thing. They, "If you believe that Lord Śiva is the Supreme, why don't you go and establish? Why you are sitting here and declaring jagad-guru?" Their purpose was that "Either you worship Śiva or Kṛṣṇa, it doesn't matter, but if you would have done something that would have spread the Hindu conception of... But you are not doing there anything. Why do you call yourself jagad-guru?" (Hindi) "A jackal is the king in the forest." And they do not go outside. Even Gaṅgeśvarānanda went; he came back disappointed. What they will do? Cinmayananda goes so many times. What does he do? (Hindi) (break) He is so big. What does he have? What he has done? This thing going on. Phalena paricīyate. One has to be studied by the result, not by talking. It is not that Caitanya Mahāprabhu entrusted the subject of preaching only unto me. Why they do not go, the gosvāmīs, swamis, big, big sannyāsīs, and stalwart? Why they are rotting within this area?

Indian man (2): They know only how to criticize for nothing.

Prabhupāda: No, what is the meaning of that criticize? First of all you come to the stage.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Enviousness.

Prabhupāda: Now, Bon Mahārāja, our Godbrother, went. What did he bring? He brought some HMD. HMD. You know HMD? You do not know?

Indian man (3): Hindustan Machine Tools.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: So similarly, they are keeping men as dogs, and they want peace. How it is possible? They are educating general mass of people like cats and dogs, and they want peace. How it is possible? Make them first of all sober men. Then there is question of peace. (break) ...God consciousness, there is no question of peace. (break) If we know that the Supreme Lord, God, is our father, and He has..., everything belongs to Him, His property; therefore, instead of fighting, let us enjoy father's property peacefully. Then there will be peace. We are peacefully walking in this park because we know that it is commonwealth; it is government's property. I can walk, and the dog can also walk. Then there will be peace. And if I think, "No, it is my property," and you think your property, then there will be fight between you and me. So where is peace? Why you claim South Africa as your property? You are foreigner. You want peace. You are expert in keeping them subdued, the Africans. Otherwise, lawfully, it is African property. Why you have taken? Either you make it God's property, otherwise make it African property. You have no right to come here. If you say God's property, then everyone has got equal right. So they do not know what is the meaning of peace.

Morning Walk -- October 21, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yet all the universities, schools throughout the world, they're simply following this experimental knowledge of the scientists. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...machine is recording, but as soon as electricity stops—the machine is there—it will not record. You cannot say the machine is the ultimate. Machine is there; it will not record as soon as the electricity is missing. So that electricity, either you say soul or something else, you replace it. Just like electricity means the battery you charge, it will work, again record. Similarly, if you say "That is not soul, something missing," so you can replace it. What is that something? That something also you do not know. Then how can you refute my argument, soul? You do not know anything. I at least know something on the basis of śāstra. But you have neither śāstra nor experiment, nothing else. So who is strong? I am strong or you are strong?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Our position is very weak against these arguments.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have got some evidences—Kṛṣṇa is speaking, the Vedic śāstra... And what you have got? Simply your speaking? What you are, nonsense? Your speaking should be accepted? And Kṛṣṇa's speaking will be rejected? I have got some support, but what support you have got except your statement? Then everyone can give a statement and he becomes an authority.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But there are so many millions and millions of people who hold the opposite view. They feel that their position is very safe because it's the general consensus opinion that life comes from matter.

Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: First of all be engaged yourself. Then they will see the example and they'll join. Just like in our New Vrindaban. Other men from other farms, they are coming, and they are offered this milk preparation, burfi, sandeṣa, rasagullā, rabri, so many, halavā. They become: "Oh, so many nice things can be prepared from milk?" They do not know, uncivilized. Cut the animal and eat. A most crude civilization. When people were not civilized, they used to do that. Civilization means you know, you must know how to live very nicely. That is civilization. But they do not know even that. Simply eating meat and wine, meat and wine, that's all. And this is going on as civilization. They do not know what is the meaning of civilization. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). Real civilization means to understand God. Here is God. Who'll accept, either you say God or nature, that "You are under control. You are not free."? That, this dog's obstinacy, they will not take it. Like a dog. What is the meaning of dog obstinacy? He'll go on disturbing, "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" This is dog consciousness. How they can refuse, that "There is no authority"? They say, "No, we don't care for authority. Don't." But you are being kicked every moment: still, there is no authority? Just see obstinacy. Why you are becoming old? Every moment you are being kicked. You cannot remain young. You are trying to remain young with pomade, with some color, with some this, tea, wig, and... But you cannot, rascal. You cannot. You must become old. And still, he is thinking that he'll be able to remain young. This is called dog's obstinacy. He has got experience that nobody can remain young. I'll also not remain young also, although I want it, "Yes, if I can remain young, that is good facility." That he knows, but he won't find the way how he can remain... Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20).

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Brāhmaṇa's qualification is there—śama, dama, titikṣa, ārjavam and jñānam, vijñānam, āstikyam, brahma-karma... (BG 18.42). Everything is there, the symptoms. So you are doing business, the occupation of the vaiśyas or śūdras, and how you are claiming to become brāhmaṇa? The... Who is a brāhmaṇa, that symptoms is there in the śāstra. And not only the symptoms, Nārada Muni has said, "If these symptoms are found elsewhere, then he should be accepted according to the symptom." There is no question of birth. Yasya hi yaḻ lakṣanām proktaṁ varṇābhivyanjakaṁ yady anyātrāpi dṛṣyeta tat tenaiva viniriset. This is Nārada's vision. So it is the symptom. Just like a doctor, medical man. He diagnoses according to the symptom. He finds out the cause. So symptom is required, not that a man has become diseased or healthy by birth. No. By birth he is born. Then again, when he develops certain types of symptom, so one has to take him in that way. That is śāstra. We are accepting, or giving them sacred thread, brāhmaṇa, after seeing that they are actually acting as a brāhmaṇa, not superficially. Therefore we take some time to see whether he can develop brahminical symptom. That is our process, not that anyone comes, and we give him a sacred thread and he becomes immediately brāhmaṇa. We don't do this. First of all give him chance. Let him chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, follows the rules and regulations. Then let us see. If he is actually serious, he has developed the symptom, then... This is the proper way. Even one comes from the brāhmaṇa family—he wants initiation—we don't give immediately, even if he is coming from a brāhmaṇa... That is a good facility, that he is born in a brāhmaṇa family, but the symptom is the first necessity. Either you are born in a brāhmaṇa family or śūdra family, it doesn't matter.

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is the truth of rascaldom, as soon as you change your position.

Dr. Patel: Theory is rascal, but the truth is never rascal.

Prabhupāda: No, no, truth you do not know. Therefore rascaldom.

Dr. Patel: They do not know how to explain. Truth is there, sir.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Anyway, he does not know. Therefore he is a rascal, either you say this way or that way.

Dr. Patel: Truth is there.

Prabhupāda: No, no, truth is there, but they cannot present the truth rightly. That is rascaldom. Truth is there; that is certain. But they cannot present the truth in right way.

Dr. Patel: You mean they are groping in the dark.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is rascal. How things are happening—every ten years they are changing their theory. And that has been explained by, not by a layman like me. The Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara, he has explained. He has concluded Darwin's theory completely wrong. You have read that small booklet?

Dr. Patel: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And he has given reason, quotation, how simply he's speculator.

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Haṁsadūta: Butter they have, but it's not very good quality.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Adulterate. I thought at least they have got little milk and butter, but that is also finished. (break)

Tejās: ...the milkman tries to bring the cow to the āśrama, they arrest the milkman. They take his cow away from him. They don't even allow that they can bring the cow to the people any more. They seized. He lost one cow. He has to sneak the cow down the back alley so that they can bring some cow fodder in.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...zation will collapse very soon, all over the world. It will collapse. Either you may bring this ism or that ism, this civilization will collapse. People will become mad, being harassed in so many ways. When one is harassed in so many problems, he commits suicide. So that position is coming.

Haṁsadūta: Or he starts a war.

Prabhupāda: Yes. When the government cannot adjust, they start a war. (end)

Morning Walk -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: But you have also, you have got, not living very happy life, this human society. There are others, even Indira Gandhi, she's always disturbed. Who is happy here? I saw personally. Oh, she is so disturbed. Everyone is unhappy. Who is happy here?

Harikeśa: I mean, you say that to anybody in America, they'll go, "I'm happy."

Prabhupāda: Everyone is unhappy, America, India, god or beast everyone is unhappy. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya, bhaya means fearfulness. That is unhappiness. Everyone is afraid what will happen next. This is unhappiness. So either you be Indira Gandhi or a street dog, that is nature's law. Nobody is happy. That they cannot understand that there is no happiness, and he's trying to make development for happiness. Actually there is no happiness. This is struggle for existence. Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7), with the mind and the senses he's trying for happiness, but there is no happiness. That is called illusion. That is called illusion. There is no happiness and he's trying to get happiness. Happiness is beyond the senses, material senses. Sukham atyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriyam grāhyam (BG 6.21), if you want real happiness that is transcendental happiness, not this sense happiness.

Harikeśa: But there is happiness of the senses. When you have sex life...

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: Not unknown. It is unknown to you. But known to us. If it is unknown to you, you take, you know it from me. That is real knowledge. Why you persist that "It is unknown"? It should remain ever unknown? Why shall I take from anyone else? That's a fact. Either you answer what is that element which is missing so that the body is now dead. Simply your denial is obstinacy. That is dog's obstinacy. Then you are like a dog. You answer that: "This is the reason." Make experiment; prove it. Then you are right. So long you cannot do it, simply denying, that is dog's obstinacy. If you, as you say, there is no soul, it is chemical combination, so bring the chemicals and put him into life. Then your statement is right. You cannot do it and simply persist. This is doggish. You are calling a lump of matter your father, your child, your relative, and when the soul is gone, you say, "Oh, my father is gone." Why your father is gone? He's lying there on the bed. The same coat, pant, face, ear, eyes. Why do you say, "My father has gone"? What is this nonsense? So that chemical combination is your father? Bring your father again, chemical combination. Hmm? What is the answer? Some foolish, rubbish thing, presentation, will it be accepted as knowledge?

Harikeśa: Another point.... I just thought of. They say it's some chemical which is missing that's making life, yet, if the same chemical is there that's making life, what accounts for so many different varieties of life? If it's the same chemical, how is there so many different varieties from that same chemical?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Page Title:Either you... (Conversations 1974 - 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:24 of Nov, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=68, Let=0
No. of Quotes:68