Either you... (Conversations 1967 - 1973)

Expressions researched:
"either you"

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: The life history of Haridāsa is that he was born in a Muhammadan family. Someway or other he became a devotee and was chanting 300,000 times Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu made him ācārya, the authority of chanting. Therefore we glorify him, "Nāmācārya Haridāsa Ṭhākura ki jaya." Because he was made the ācārya, the authority of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then, when Lord Caitanya took sannyāsa, Haridāsa Ṭhākura desired that "My dear Lord, You are leaving Nabadwip, then what is the use of my life? Either you take me or let me die." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "No. Why shall you die? You come with Me." So He took him to Jagannātha Purī. At Jagannātha Purī, because he considered himself born of Muhammadan family, he did not enter. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave him a place at Kāśīnātha Miśra's house and there he was chanting and Caitanya Mahāprabhu's sending him prasādam. In that way he was passing his days. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to come and see him daily, and one day he died like this.

Hayagrīva: All right. That's the end of the fourth act. Now the fifth act...

Prabhupāda: The fifth act...

Hayagrīva: First scene.

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- February 1, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, this our process is chanting. It is very innocent. If you sit down and chant with us, you have no loss, no harm, but there is great gain. You see? By chanting, you gradually cleanse your heart and you can realize what is God. That is the greatest gain. Human life is meant for knowing God. The animals, they cannot know, although the bodily demands of the animal and the human being are the same. The animals, they sleep; man also sleeps. Animal, they eat; man also eats. The animal, they are also afraid of some enemy; man is also afraid of some enemy. The animals, they mate with the opposite sex, and men also do that. But what is the special significance of man? He can understand about God, but the animal cannot. Therefore if a man does not take to this understanding, he is no better than animal. A man who has no God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is no better than animal because he has no other business than the four principles of bodily demands. So that is also prevalent in animal kingdom. Therefore this is a privilege for human being, to understand about God, and as such, in every human society there is some sort of religious principle. This religious principle means to understand God. Either you take it, Christianity or Judaism or Hinduism, every religion is trying to understand God according to their capacity. So without this understanding, means Kṛṣṇa consciousness, human life is as good as animal life.

Interviewer: Do you believe that other religions have some truth to them because they all are...

Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: There are different grades of life. So we get information from authoritative books that there are 8,400,000's of different grades of life, and there are 900,000's of aquatic life, two million species of plants and trees, about eleven hundred thousand species of life of birds, three million types of species of beast, and 400,000 species of this human body. Out of that 400,000's, different kinds of human bodies, the civilized body is a great boon. At that time we can make further progress. Either we can transfer to other planets... The standard of living, comforts, are many, many thousands times better than this planet. But in this book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, we get information that within this material universe, wherever you go, either you remain in this planet or you go to the moon planet or to the sun planet, or there are millions and trillions of planets... The highest planetary system is called Brahmaloka. There the duration of life is very, very great. You cannot calculate even twelve hours of their days. These are described in this book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam arhad yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). Four hundred... Three thousand years is the duration... Four hundred and, yes, four hundred and three thousands of years, solar years, is the one unit of yuga. Such thousand yugas makes twelve hours of the Brahmaloka planet. Similarly, they live there for a hundred years. But these four things, namely birth, death, old age, and disease, these four things are everywhere, either you live in this planet or moon planet or sun planet or any other planet. The duration of life may be very, very great. Just like in comparison to the ant, our life, human being—we have got hundred years age—so to the ant it may be very astonishing: "Oh, how such a great length of time one can live?" Similarly, we may be astonished by hearing twelve hours duration of Brahmaloka, but actually there is.

Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: You have to close your eyes half, not full. If you close your eyes full, then you will sleep. And you have to concentrate on the tip of your nose, and you have to sit straight under posture, and then you have to exercise the breathing. If your inhalation is going this side, then you have to breathe this side. There are so many processes. So these things are not possible. Because our mind is so disturbed, we are engaged in so many outside work, it is not possible to concentrate on... You cannot find out a solitary place. The so-called meditation going on in a class. That is not meditation. Meditation cannot be performed in that way. It must be very solitary place, sacred place, and you have to do it alone. You see? So these facilities are not available at the present age. Besides that, that meditation process will take you a very long time to realize yourself. So meditation is there in our process, but it is a very quick process. What is that? We loudly chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So even if your mind is diverted to some other subject, you will be forced to hear Hare Kṛṣṇa. You have to apply your mind. You see? Either you take it, "Oh, somebody is disturbing," or you are enjoying, you have to, you are forced to turn your mind to this side. And if we go on chanting for a short time, the meditation is always there. And with the dancing, the breathing is also there, but it is a shortcut policy. That policy, the yogic meditation or breathing exercise, samādhi, it is already there in our process. But we don't take in that prescribed way of meditation because that is not possible in this age. It is very difficult. So meditation and breathing exercise is not a part of our program, but it is automatically performed by this process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma... That is automatically done. It is so nice process. Then your next question is, "Is diet an important segment of the word?" Yes. Diet is very important thing. Just like when a patient goes to a physician, he prescribes a certain type of diet.

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā: cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). "I have created the four divisions of caste." It is not exactly caste; section, varṇa. So how you can stop? It is natural. So Bhāgavata recommends, Suta Gosvāmī is addressing, ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. This system of sectional division, this is... "He is brāhmaṇa, he is kṣatriya, he is vaiśya, he is śūdra, he is brahmacārī, he is householder, he is vānaprastha, he is sannyāsī." Or sub-section. "He is potter, he is washerman, he is this and that." You may divide it or not, this section will be there in every society. So Bhāgavata says that "You may be situated in any section. It doesn't matter." Either you be a kṣatriya or a brāhmaṇa or a potter or a washerman or whatever you may be, it doesn't matter. Everyone should be satisfied by his occupation. But how one gets successful by his occupation? He hasn't got to change the occupation. In the material world one has to change his occupation for certain kind of success. Suppose if you are a potter. Now, if you want to become engineer, so you have to change your occupation as potter. But in the spiritual world you haven't got to change your position, and still, you get success, spiritual life. That is the beauty. You haven't got to change. If somebody says that "Sir, I am potter. How can I be Kṛṣṇa conscious? It requires that one should be a brāhmaṇa, one should be very learned man, Vedānta philosophy, and one must have the sacred thread, and this and that. So I am a potter. I am a cobbler. I am a washerman." No. Kṛṣṇa says, "No." You do not require to change. Caitanya Mahaprabhu also says, "You do not require to change." Kṛṣṇa says that svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya. You just try to worship the Supreme Lord by the result of your occupation. Because Kṛṣṇa requires everything. So if you are a potter, you supply pots. If you are florist, you supply flower. If you are carpenter, you work for temple. If you are washerman, then wash clothing of the temple. Temple is the center, Kṛṣṇa. And everyone gets chance to offer his service. Therefore temple worship is very nice. So this temple should be organized in such a way that we don't require any money. You give your service. That's all. You be engaged in your service. Don't change your service. But you try to serve the-temple means the Supreme Lord—by your occupational duty.

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: If you kindly come and hear about Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will be very much pleased upon you. Anyone. Suppose if somebody is interested with you, he likes your activity, he likes to hear about your qualities, you will be also pleased with him. "Oh, this man is interested with my affairs." So śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Kṛṣṇa is within your heart. Kṛṣṇa is within and without because He is all-pervading. It is not that He is simply without or within. He is within and without. That is all-pervading. Akhilātma-bhūtaḥ. And all-pervading does not mean that He is not in Goloka Vṛndāvana. He is there also. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ (Bs. 5.37). Although He is in His abode, Goloka Vṛndāvana, He is everywhere. Just like sun. He is ninety millions miles away from here, situated in sun globe, but he is everywhere. This light now, it is sunlight. So if sun can remain in that way, everywhere, why not the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He also remains everywhere? So He is within your heart. And when He sees that you are interested in hearing about Him, He becomes sympathetic. He is sympathetic to everyone. Still more sympathetic. So what does He do? Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Kṛṣṇa, when He sees that one is interested in hearing about Him, then He gives you facility. What is that facility? That facility is śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). Kṛṣṇa-kathā, talks about Kṛṣṇa, you, either you understand it or not understand it, it doesn't matter, if you simply sit down to receive, give aural reception to such message, you become pious. Immediately. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. You don't understand; simply you talk and discuss and hear, you become pious. Just like fire. You come to the fire, you understand it or not understand, you get warm. That facility is there. You don't require to understand how fire is produced, what is the chemical or physical constitution. You do it, understand or not understand. Just like you sit down on a car, motor car. You understand it or not understand it, what is the engineering of the car, but you run on. Similarly, kṛṣṇa-kathā, the simply, the simple method, if you kindly come and hear, then you will be pious. That is the first installment. You don't understand or don't follow, but if the injection is there you become pious. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. And if you give little attention, then the result will be hṛdy antaḥ-stho hy abhadrāṇi, all undesirable things that is accumulated within your heart, that will be cleared. Kṛṣṇa will help you.

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: Oh, he was talking that on zero some great swami spoke four hours. And he was very proud that on zero one can speak throughout his whole life. Now I did not... (laughs) But if you can speak on some subject matter for four hours, how it is zero? Just see the contradiction. Gaurasundara, you were present when he was speaking? You heard? If I can speak something on a subject matter, is that subject matter zero? Zero means śūnya. Śūnya means nothing. So how you can speak on nothing? If you can speak on nothing, then nothing is no more nothing. It is something. Just see. But you are so proud. "Oh, he spoke on zero for four hours." I did not contradict because he is newcomer, but I talked on other subject. But this is the position. Suppose you can talk on zero for four hours. Then either you waste your time... Because after all it is zero. The result is zero. Just like you add one million zeros. So what is the value? Zero. So who is a fool that knowing that one million zeros makes zero, why shall I waste my time making so many zeros? So either he is a fool or if zero has so much substance to speak, then how it is zero? If zero has so much value that one can speak on it for hours and hours together, then how it is zero? So people do not understand things very properly. They're so dull. Then he was eulogising the man who spoke on zero for four hours. Yes. That is the system, if you hear a man talking nonsense and people will give cla... Oh! And he's asking what you have understood, "Oh! it is very difficult to explain." Then why you are wasting time? If you cannot express, if you do not understand. Simply people wants jugglery of words, they don't want substance. They don't want substance. That is the difficulty in the mod..., in the present age. Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya saṁsiddhiṁ labhate param (BG 18.46). Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). So you should learn this nice simple fact, that whether by your work Kṛṣṇa or the Supreme Personality of Godhead is being satisfied. Just like a student, how he is prosecuting his studies will be tested at the examination how he can satisfy the examiner. Similarly, whatever we may do, we have to enquire or to understand whether by that work the Supreme Personality of Godhead is satisfied. Unfortunately, they do not believe in God, or if they had some ideas of God... Now they say God is dead. So they do not think that it is necessary to please God. That is the difficulty.

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That I am taking this example just like we go for a short time on the sea but we cannot make any permanent settlement there.

Reporter: Yeah. But according to the Vedic literature they cannot go there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In this body we cannot go there. With this body we cannot go there. We shall have to change this body. Either you do it scientifically or spiritually or by any other method. With this body you cannot go there. You have to prepare a similar body which is suitable for living condition there.

Reporter: Would a spacesuit substitute for that?

Prabhupāda: Space?

Reporter: In other words, the spacesuits that the astronauts wear...

Prabhupāda: I don't think so. I don't think so. Spacesuits are...

Reporter: You see I'm a little confused because I can't tell whether you feel that based on Vedic literature, that you said it may be possible for them to land and to return for a short visit, yet you say they cannot go with this body.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I say also this, that to land there you must have the specific body suitable for that place.

Reporter: To land there you must have...

Prabhupāda: The specific body.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation Including Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.1-34 Recitation & Explanation -- April 1, 1969, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: It is God's bread. But they have no intelligence. They cannot say like that. If they had presented to me, I would have at once said, "Rascal, this is not your father's bread. It is God's bread. You have stolen the property." You cannot manufacture bread or wheat. It is sent by God. That answer we have to give to these so-called Communists and rascals, godless people, that "You are not proprietor. You are all rascals. Everything belongs to God." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So we have to present scientifically. We have to present by reason, by argument. Not that if we say somebody, "You are rascals..." No. You have to place the matter, that he is rascal. So that... Bhāgavata says that for economic solution... religion is not meant for economic solution. Economic solution is there, either you be religious or not religious. In God's kingdom there is wheat, there is rice, there is water, rainfall, and the production. Everything is there. There is fruit, there is flower. So either you be religious or not religious, it doesn't matter. Your economic problem is settled already. Just like in the prisonhouse, they are all criminals. That does not mean they will starve to death. The government has all arrangement to feed them. Similarly, although this material world is prisonhouse, all criminals are here, revolt, to a person are here, those who do not care for God. But still, their fooding problem, their lodging problem is there by arrangement of God. Everything is there. So Bhāgavata says, dharmasya hy āpavargyasya nārtho 'rthāyopakalpate (SB 1.2.9). Don't execute religious principles for making your economic problem solved. Then? "We require some money." Yes. "What for?" Nārthasya dharmaikāntasya kāmo lābhāya hi smṛtaḥ. And even if you get money, that is not for your sense gratification. Nārthasya dharmaikāntasya. If you are religious, really, actually, a man of religiosity, then your money is not for sense gratification, as we are teaching our boys. They are working hard, they are getting money and they are spending for Kṛṣṇa. You see? Because they have understood that "My energy spent for Kṛṣṇa's cause is really utilized. And if I utilize my energy for sense gratification, then I am cats and dogs." So nārthasya. If you get money... You must get money. But it is not meant for sense gratification. "Then what is the, it is meant? We have got senses.

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Prabhupāda: They do not know. But their affection for Kṛṣṇa is so great and nice that it is inexplicable. They were playing, Kṛṣṇa is defeated. Oh, Kṛṣṇa has to take the friend on His shoulder. Yes, because He was defeated. So Kṛṣṇa is accepting, "Yes, come on My shoulder." So this Kṛṣṇa-līlā, that also one who tries to understand and understands, they are also like those boys who have amassed pious activities of many, many births. It is not ordinary thing. Yes. And māyāśritānāṁ nara dārakeṇa. Those who are under the clutches of māyā, they will think these Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, "What is this? What is this? Kṛṣṇa conscious persons, they are enjoying about Kṛṣṇa's going to the field with some cows?" Yes. Just like one of our students, that Raṇacora. He asked me, "Swamiji, how is that God has become a cowherd boy?" Yes. Because ordinary people, they are thinking God must be so great, so great, great, that they cannot conceive. And that great personality, how He becomes a cowherd boy playing with cowherd boys? Yes. Brahmā also became astonished, and therefore he came to check "Whether He is my Lord or not?" (laughter) Yes. Bewildered. Muhyanti yatra sūrayaḥ. The Bhāgavata says therefore, even the great personalities like Brahmā, they are also bewildered to understand the personality. He, Brahmā also heard that at Vṛndāvana Kṛṣṇa has appeared and He is acting as a cowherd boy. He was also astonished. "Oh, my Lord? He has become a cowherd boy?" So he came to check. He, I mean to say, took away all the cowherd boys and cows and everything. And after a few seconds he came, he said Kṛṣṇa is playing in the same way. And although the, I mean, stolen cowherd boys and cows they, by the, I mean to say, energy of māyā, by influence of Brahmā, they were kept in a secret cave. They were sleeping. But Kṛṣṇa is playing. That means He has manifested again with the cowherd boys and cows. Then he was convinced, "Yes, He is my Lord." Then Brahma-stava is there. Ānanda cinmaya rasa pratibhāvitābhis tābhirya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). So Kṛṣṇa can expand in many, many thousand times. What Brahmā will do by stealing His... No, that is not possible. So Brahmā was also convinced. These things you'll find in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Brahma-vimohana. Even Brahmā is bewildered, what to speak of ordinary men like us. So Kṛṣṇa-līlā, to understand... There is no need of understanding. Simply you love Kṛṣṇa, then the whole business finished. Just like if you touch fire, if you understand it or not understand it, the warmness is there. Similarly, either you understand Kṛṣṇa or do not understand Kṛṣṇa, it doesn't matter. Simply if you love Kṛṣṇa, then your life is perfect. That's all.

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you will feel relieved. So therefore the real thing is that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. We are artificially enjoying the stolen property. Therefore if you go on enjoying like that, then this frustration will come. But before coming to that frustration, if we return this property to Kṛṣṇa, then we become happy. So best thing is to return everything to Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And you will not be a loser. You will be gainer, just like Bali Mahārāja. Actually, if you think, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Nothing belongs to you. This is māyā. Kṛṣṇa's property you are thinking, "mine." Is this land of American belongs to you actually? It is stolen property. You have stolen from the Red Indians or from Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is, not you, everyone. Somebody is claiming, "This much my property," somebody is claiming, "This much my property," but this much or that much, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. It is stolen property. There is another example in Indian words, that hira cauri kiya abhicaurya, khira caurī kiyā abhicaura. Hira means diamond, and khīra means... What is that called? Cucumber, a small? So if somebody has stolen a cucumber from other's tree, so he is captured. And another man has stolen some diamond. He is also arrested. So from the police, both are thieves. If the man says, "Oh, what I have stolen? I have stolen a little cucumber. It is nothing, worth not even two cent or one cent. Why you are arresting me? He is thief. He has stolen a big diamond," no, in the eyes of law, he is also thief; he is also thief. Everyone is thief. Anyone who is not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is thief. He'll not be happy. The best thing is to return whatever he has possessed: "Kṛṣṇa, it is Yours. Take." Finish business. Mānasa deha geha, yo kichu mora. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's song... Now, everything we possess in mind. Actually we don't possess. Suppose I am possessing all this. As soon as I go from this body, all possession will remain here. I'll not take anything. So I don't possess. But in mind I am thinking, "Oh, this is mine. This is mine. Where is another box? Why it is not coming?" And possessing in mind. If I leave this body, either the box here or in the Chicago or anywhere else, what is the difference? There is no difference. But because I am possessing in the mind, "Oh, that box is mine," so I am asking, "Whether it is Chicago or it is here, it is there? Why it is not coming?" So possession in the mind. Actually you don't possess. Mānasa deha geha. So by that supposingly possessing, we have got our mind, we have got our body, then expansion of body, wife, children, family, society, country. In this way we possess so many things. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, mānasa deha geha, yo kichu mora: "Now whatever I possess, either in the mind or in the family or in the society or in the body—whatever I have got, I surrender unto You, my dear Kṛṣṇa." Mānasa deha geha, yo kichu..., arpilun tuā pade nanda kiśora: "Nanda-kiśora, O the son of Nanda, I give unto You." Marobi rakhobi, yo icchā tohāra: "Now whatever You like, You can do, either you kill me or You protect me, as You like. You are the proprietor. You have right to do everything." This is surrender. This is full Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not possible immediately. Therefore we have to practice. Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6).

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Do you follow this Buddha?

Guest (3): Uh, no.

Prabhupāda: You simply talk of him? You practice Buddha if you appreciate him. You give up everything like Buddha and meditate. But that you will not do. Then what is the talking of, useless talking about this? Do something. Either you believe Buddha or Jesus Christ or Kṛṣṇa. Do something. Don't talk simply. Lord Buddha is very nice. He gave up his kingdom in youthful life. He was prince. He thought, "It is all nonsense. Let me meditate." Do like that. That is the disease. We won't do anything. We talk much of this, that, this, that. Do anything, but do it perfectly. "Jack of all trade, master of none." That is not good. Be master of something. It doesn't differ. Either you follow Lord Jesus Christ or Lord Buddha or Kṛṣṇa, it doesn't matter much. But do it perfectly. That is our request. (end)

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Children very easily adopt it. So this is the perfect yoga system. No artificial education. Spontaneous response, dancing, Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is the easiest method. So the greatest contribution to the human society. Do it.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, so tomorrow we'll be doing it. So now, the next question I had in my mind is we'll be doing kīrtana, then language, speech. Then end with kīrtana.

Prabhupāda: That is also kīrtana. Kīrtana means kīrtayati. Glorifying. That is kīrtana. So either you sing musically or you speak devotionally, both of them are kīrtana. Just like Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he continually spoke to Mahārāja Parīkṣit. That is also state, śrī viṣṇu... śravaṇe parīkṣit, abhavad vaiyāsakiḥ kīrtane. Vaiyasaki, the son of Vyāsadeva, Sukadeva Gosvāmī, he became liberated simply by kīrtane. But what is that kīrtana? He never played musical way. He simply explained Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So this is also kīrtana. This is called saṅkīrtana. Bahubhir militvā kīrtayati. That is saṅkīrtana.

Allen Ginsberg: The chanting is saṅkīrtana.

Prabhupāda: Chanting, yes. Saṅkīrtana.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, if we have two and one half hours...

Hayagrīva: We have as long as we...

Allen Ginsberg: How long a saṅkīrtana to begin with, do you think?

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Lady: That's much better.

Prabhupāda: But when you go to the government state, they are equally important. They are distributing the finance everywhere. So similarly either you take material energy or spiritual energy or marginal energy, all energy of God's, Kṛṣṇa's, but they are acting differently. So, so far I am marginal energy, if I am under the control of the material energy, that is my misfortune. But if I am controlled by the spiritual energy, that is my fortune. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). They take shelter of the spiritual energy. They are mahātmā, and what is their symptom: bhajanty ananya manaso, simply engaged in devotional service. That, that is required.

Devotees: Haribol!

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Śyāmasundara: So chanting along with devotional service, performing our duties while concentrating on Kṛṣṇa, is also part of the process, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anything, any way. The whole idea is manāḥ kṛṣṇe niveṣayet. Mind should be fixed up in Kṛṣṇa. That is the process. Either you go through philosophy or through arguments or through chanting. Any way. That is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ (BG 6.47). Of all kinds of yogis. In the... You might have read it. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ. I think Maharsi has translated this Bhagavad-gītā, and in the sixth chapter...? You have read it?

George Harrison: Oh, his translation of Gītā?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: Sixth chapter, he's asking.

George Harrison: Yes. I haven't read all of it. Part of it.

Prabhupāda: So in the sixth chapter, last verse, you'll find yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatena... You have got our Bhagavad-gītā As It Is here? No? How is that, you don't keep Bhagavad-gītā? You'll find it is clearly stated that all yogis, the one yogi whose mind is fixed up in Kṛṣṇa, he is first-class yogi. Yoginam api sarveṣāṁ. Sarveṣāṁ, of all yogis. There are different kinds of yogis. So yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gata: "One whose mind is fixed up in Me," or Kṛṣṇa, āntarātmanā, "within the heart," śraddhāvān, "and is devotee," and bhajate, "and serves Me, oh," sa me yuktatamo mataḥ, "he is the first-class yogi." Tama. Tama means most, supermost. Yuktatamo. Yogi, better yogi and the supermost yogi.

Discussion with BTG Staff -- December 24, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: No, no. There is nothing.

Hayagrīva: Our process thus far has been to halve up the material about 50-50. He takes half, and I'll take a half, and that seems to be working fairly nicely.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But first thing is that when you are in the post of editors, you are supposed to know. But whenever there is some difficulty, either you get it solved by consulting amongst yourselves, or if it is not possible, then refer to me. That's all.

Satsvarūpa: Oh. Then I have one question to ask you. What about quoting even Vaiṣṇava literature that you haven't translated, like the Caitanya-caritāmṛta or cantos that you haven't translated? That doesn't seem right.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Satsvarūpa: Other translations than your own. What if we want to quote them in some article?

Prabhupāda: Other translations means?

Satsvarūpa: Well, sometimes I see Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Śilavatī even wrote a book about Deity worship, and there's a long quote from Caitanya-caritāmṛta. I don't know if that's bona fide. I know that the literature is bona fide, but I don't know of any translation that's bona...

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Then what can I do? Kṛṣṇa says... If you talk, two, I cannot answer. You talk with me, one.

Guest (2): No, we have talked with reasoning.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Don't talk, two. I cannot answer with all these reasons. Either you talk or then let him talk.

Guest (2): I am talking. I am talking now.

Prabhupāda: Then you talk. Let him talk.

Guest (2): So we have to tear all these vices that are connected with our body. That is our purpose of getting into either bhakti, or nāma, bhāgavata or whatever it may be.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (2): But in that way, if you talk from that, another way of ahaṅkāra and pride, then things cannot go far. Things cannot go far.

Prabhupāda: So shall I answer now? Now you stop; I answer. Now Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. So even though you have got so many sinful life, Kṛṣṇa assures that "If you surrender unto Me I shall give you protection from the reaction."

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1971, Gorakhpur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now when you are Kṛṣṇa conscious, you haven't got to accept a material body. You go directly to Kṛṣṇa and accept spiritual body. Then your life is eternal.

Guest: Then again he will not get material...?

Prabhupāda: No. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). When you are Kṛṣṇa conscious, there is no more accepting material body. Mām eti. And mām eti means whoever goes to Kṛṣṇa, he has as good a body as Kṛṣṇa. That is oneness.

Guest: Then what does it mean when Kṛṣṇa has told Arjuna, in the battlefield that "Do you think either you or I were not there in the past? And you and I will not be...?"

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna existed. You are existing. You are eternal. You are simply changing body. So Kṛṣṇa is existing; you are also existing. What is the difficulty to understand this fact? Kṛṣṇa is existing and you are also existing. You are simply changing body, but Kṛṣṇa is not changing body. That is the difference.

Guest: Soul will not merge into that light, Kṛṣṇa's light?

Prabhupāda: What is that merging? You have got that brain, merging.

Guest: I told that... You have told...

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1971, Gorakhpur:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. If you cannot do anything else, you simply chant sixteen rounds, take prasādam, and sleep. (laughter) It is special prerogative for you. There is no then. This is, this is order for you.

Devotee: In a situation where there's a choice between say chanting and reading. Is chanting a better activity than reading?

Prabhupāda: Yes, chanting and reading is the same thing.

Devotee: But is one better than the other?

Prabhupāda: No better. That I explained. It is absolute. Either you chant or read, the same thing. But you have to fulfill the sixteen rounds. That's it. All right. Let us... (end)

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: That is stated, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "In this age practically all men will be śūdras." That is... That is predicted. But if there are simply śūdras, then the social order will be destroyed. You... Just like in spite of your state of śūdras, a brāhmaṇa is found here. And that is necessity. So if you do not divide the social order in such a way, then there will be chaos. that is the scientific estimation of the Vedas. You may... You may belong for the time being to the śūdra class, but to maintain the social order you have to train some of the śūdras to become brāhmaṇa, some of the śūdras to become kṣatriyas. You cannot depend on the śūdras. Then there will be chaos. Neither you can depend only on brāhmaṇa. Just like to fulfill the necessities of your body there must be a portion called the brain, there must be a portion called the arms, there must be a portion called the stomach, or the belly, and there must be a portion which is called the leg. The leg is also required, the brain is also required, the arm is also required—for cooperation, to fulfill the mission of the whole body. So any, any society you conceive, unless there are these four divisions, there will be chaos. It will be, not be properly, I mean to say, going on, smoothly going on. There will be some disturbance. Brain must be there. So at the present moment there is scarcity of brain. I am not talking of your state or my state. I am taking the world as it is. The brain... Formerly the Indian administration was going on in monarchy. Just like this picture. This picture is a kṣatriya king. Before his death he renounced his, I mean to say, royal order and he came to the forest to hear about self-realization. So if you want to maintain the peace and prosperity of the whole worldly social order, you must create a class of men very intelligent, a class of men very expert in administration, a class of men very expert in production, and a class of men to work. That is required. You cannot avoid it. That is the Vedic conception. Mukha-bāhūru-padebhyaḥ. They say, mukha... Mukha means the face. Bahu means the arm. Uru means this, this, or waist. And pada. So anywhere, either you take this state or that state—doesn't matter—unless there is a smooth, systematic establishment of these four orders of life, the state or the society will not go very smoothly.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Yes, just... Whole people or the state or the king or the government, whatever you say—this surrender must be there. It may be different.

Prof. Kotovsky: I'm sorry. Only there's a difficulty. We can't agree that you have surrender to government or surrender to a king. There's a principle difference of surrender to a king, to a person, or surrender to a society.

Prabhupāda: No, that is... That is a change of color only. But the surrender is there. The principle of surrender is there. Either you surrender to monarchy, either you surrender to democracy or aristocracy or, what is called, dictatorship, you have to surrender. That's a fact. That's a fact. Without surrendering, our life is... There is no life. That is not possible. So we are educating persons to surrender to the Supreme wherefrom you get all protection. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mam ekam śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), aham tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. So surrender is there. Nobody can say, "Now I am not surrendering to anyone." There is not a single person. Difference is where he is surrendering, where he is surrendering. The ultimate surrendering objective is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19) "After surrendering to so many things, birth after birth, when he's actually wise he surrenders unto Me." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ: (BG 7.19) "Such kind of mahātmā is very rare."

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes. But at the same time, it seems to me that surrender, surrender is to be accompanied with revolt. The history of mankind has proved but by only revolt against some kind of surrender...

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Other surrender you have to change by revolution, but when you come to Kṛṣṇa, then it is sufficient. You are satisfied. Just like... I'll give you one example, that a child is crying, and people changing laps, "Oh, you are crying." It is not stopping. But as soon as the small baby comes to the lap of his mother, he stops: "Yes, full satisfied."

Guest: Final satisfaction of...

Prabhupāda: So these changes, this surrendering, will go on in different categories. Actually all the surrenders-sum total is surrender to māyā. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayi mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So this surrender is going on, going on. It is the māyā's, māyāra vaibhava, paraphernalia of māyā, either you surrender to this or to that. But final surrender-mām eva ye prapadyante, māyām etāṁ taranti te—the final surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Then he is happy. Surrender will stay. His process of surrender is there, but this surrender keeps him quite satisfied, transcendental.

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes. And haven't you come across some hostile attitude to your teaching from orthodox Hindu, from orthodox brāhmaṇas in India itself.

Prabhupāda: But rather, we have subdued them.

Room Conversation -- July 20, 1971, New York:

Prabhupāda: You have to purchase for $700, then you have to pay maintenance service.

Pratyatoṣa: Yeah, unless you can maintain yourself. I don't think they're too difficult to maintain. Teletype terminals are very reliable.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that's all right. Maintenance is different. Either you maintain yourself or pay that.

Pratyatoṣa: Correct.

Devotee (4): The machine is like a typewriter. It's hooked up with a computer... By telephone cables?

Pratyatoṣa: Oh, yeah. You just dial over an ordinary telephone. You can use more than one time-sharing service on the same terminal just by dialing different numbers. In Washington, D.C., I was using four different computers through the same terminal, just by dialing different numbers. And they can be thousands of miles away, it doesn't matter. In Minneapolis, I'm using a computer that's located in..., near Baltimore, near Washington, D.C. And it's just like... It doesn't matter how far away it is.

Prabhupāda: You receive the phone call?

Pratyatoṣa: Yeah, just by a phone call. Just by calling a local number, too, because they have lines already set up.

Devotee (4): Like you were talking with that big (indistinct).

Room Conversation -- August 15, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: A wild boar. So when the boar attacked him the Musselmans, when they do not like they say, "Haram. Haram." Condemn means haram. So when the boar attacked him he said haram. "Haram!" But it acted, ha rāma, and he got salvation. Do you follow what I say? A Mussulman said, 'ha ram. Ha ram He condemned. It is abominable. That is the meaning of Urdu, haram. But at the time of death, when the boar attacked him, he said, "Haram." So it acted ha rāma. Ha, he rāma. It acted, chanting the name of Rāma, Hare Rāma. He meant something else, but it acted as beneficial as chanting He rāma. So therefore this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, either you chant seriously, or those who are criticizing us, jokingly, the effect will be same. So anyway let them chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Do you follow? Even they do not take it seriously, if they imitate, joke, still they'll be benefited .

Parivrājakācārya: Should these be straight saṅkīrtana, no... Should these be...

Prabhupāda: Well, they... As we install our Deity and chanting, dancing, offering ārati. This interests.

Parivrājakācārya: Not electric guitars and all that.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Parivrājakācārya: Good. Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Electric guitar, if it is, they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa only, nothing else, then it is all right. But as far as possible, simply mṛdaṅga and kartāl. But if GBC thinks that it attracts more people so they give contribution, that is a different thing. Otherwise there is no need.

Parivrājakācārya: I think nothing can attract like mṛdaṅgas and karatālas.

Room Conversation -- September 3, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: ...colleges, universities, that will be very nice.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: I wrote you a while ago. I was working on a doctorate dissertation.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: A doctoral dissertation, a Ph.D. dissertation, that when I became a devotee I was studying religion... (Break)

Prabhupāda: ...Hindu, or I may be a Christian, but the fact is that we are serving somebody. Either you be Hindu or Muslim or Christian or you may profess any religion, but you must be serving somebody. Is it not? So that serving is religion. Try to understand this.

Kīrtirāja: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I just wanted to say I found the name of that Council General. His name is A.K. Ray, R-a-y. So do wish to do anything further with it? (end)

Interview with Reporters -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. He had his assistants, I had my assistants.

Reporter: ...and some other people who said "All right, we'll hear, like to hear..."

Prabhupāda: Well, that professor wanted to hear, that's all right. So I... My conclusion was that "Your communistic idea has not very much improved from our idea, because you cannot do without surrendering. Our Kṛṣṇa philosophy is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). So your surrendering process is there. You have not improved. You say God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not good, but you have not improved, because instead of Kṛṣṇa, you have surrendered to Lenin. That's all. So you have to surrender in any circumstance. Either you become communist or this 'ist' or that 'ist,' you have to surrender."

Reporter: That's it. And you will go to (indistinct)?

Prabhupāda: This is a fact. This is a fact. You have to surrender to your senses. That's all. And we are simply recommending surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. That's all. By surrendering to senses you are not happy, but if you surrender to Kṛṣṇa you will be happy. Your surrender is there always. You cannot say that "I don't surrender to anybody." That is nonsense.

Reporter: There should be right surrender.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Reporter: There should be...

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: That is wanted.

Dr. Singh: That is what is wanted.

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa. Either you may be brāhmaṇa or either you may be kṣatriya, either you may be vaiśya or śūdra, it doesn't matter. But you try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, that is your perfection. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. Vibhāgaśaḥ is accepted, varna āśrama. Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya. Everyone has got particular duty to perform. Saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). You remain kṣatriya, you remain brāhmaṇa, you remain śūdra, it doesn't matter. But try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa by your activities. That is wanted. Just like Arjuna. He remained a kṣatriya. He was a fighter, he was declining to fight, and Kṛṣṇa said, "What is this nonsense, you decline to fight?" "No, I do not wish to kill my kinsmen." Then he was..., he accepted Kṛṣṇa's discipleship, śiṣyas te 'ham (BG 2.7), "Now I am puzzled, I do not..., I am..." Yes. Kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ.

Dr. Singh: Pṛcchāmi tvāṁ dharma-sammūḍha-cetāḥ.

Prabhupāda: Then Kṛṣṇa taught him Bhagavad-gītā. So he remained a kṣatriya. But Kṛṣṇa certified, bhakto 'si priyo 'si (BG 4.3). So business is how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. It doesn't matter whether you are kṣatriya, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya. It doesn't matter.

Dr. Singh: But surely Kṛṣṇa is not unsatisfied.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) allowed.

Devotee (6): But if there's no vegetables you have to eat something.

Śyāmasundara: I read an article once that said...

Prabhupāda: No, no, the thing is that one has to eat. And whatever you eat that is coming out of some living entity, even if you eat vegetables. The vegetable has also life, the tree, the plant. So, the real explanation is that you take which is offered to Kṛṣṇa. That is nice philosophy. Killing you have to do, either you kill vegetable or animal, killing you have to do. Therefore our proposition is that you take the prasādam of Kṛṣṇa, so if killing is bad then the responsibility goes to Kṛṣṇa. We take Kṛṣṇa's prasādam. This is the method. And Bhagavad-gītā says, yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ mucyante sarva kilbiṣaiḥ. Suppose you don't kill animal, but you kill vegetables, but still you are responsible. Bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt (BG 3.13). Anyone who is preparing food for his personal eating, he's eating all sinful activities. It may be vegetables or animals, it doesn't matter. Bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā. So this is the best formula. But therefore, for crude people, those who are accustomed to killing, for them this is best advice, "Thou shalt not kill". Next stage-prasādam. First of all let them stop. Generally, what is meant by killing... Actually vegetarians, they do not kill, because if you take fruit from the tree, the tree is not killed. Is it not?

Devotee: Yes.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Material civilization means sense gratification. That's all.

Bhūrijana: So the hippies have this sense gratification and all the people who are working so hard, they are envious of them, and they use that for their advertising.

Prabhupāda: We say in our śāstras that this sense gratification facility is there to the hogs and dogs, better sense gratification. If you have to enjoy sex life, you'll have to find out some room. Either you go to a hotel or have your own apartment, otherwise you cannot have sex life on the street, although you are too much lusty. But you have to arrange for it. But the dogs and hogs, they have no such restriction. Immediately "Come on. Let us enjoy." So they are better, in better position for sense gratification.

Sudāmā: So better to become and hog and dog.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The hog... The hog has no restriction, mother, sister or anyone. You have seen? The child hog is raising on the body of the mother, although a child. They are so sexually inclined. Sometimes they are having sexual intercourse with the mother. So you take this facility. If you want better facility for sex life, just become hog. So nature is giving the facility. "All right, come on. You eat anything without discrimination. Here is stool. And you can have sex life without any discrimination, your mother or sister. Come on."

Śyāmasundara: So the hippies have adopted that philosophy, hog philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Another thing happened in Los Angeles. I wanted some quotation from a place of this Teachings of Lord Caitanya. So the man came, he said, "Swamiji, first of all I must buy this book. Either you accept or not accept our quotation, what price I shall pay?" I said, "Give me six dollars." Immediately he took this book. "Such a nice book I have never read. So either it is printed or not printed in our press, I must take this book." Actually, these ideas what we have explained in our books, they're unknown to the modern world. Unknown.

Śyāmasundara: They're not described anywhere else. No other source.

Prabhupāda: Nobody knows that God can be person, there can be dealings like this, there are dealings actually, and they are described. That is wonderful.

Śyāmasundara: They don't know that life can be so joyful and endlessly...

Prabhupāda: That I wrote in my poetry. "The Absolute is sentient thou hast proved." That was striking to me. Not impersonal, "sentient thou hast proved, impersonal calamity thou hast moved." "Absolute is sentient thou hast proved." That was my acceptance. So even the many judges came in Allahabad, do you remember?

Śyāmasundara: Yes. In Madras?

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: You cannot say that I have got a different faith. I do not care for the laws of God. If it is a law... Just like, for example, here in the state, if you kill somebody, then you have to pay for it with your life. So if that is the law in your state, why a similar law in broader sense is not there in the courts of God, law..., law of God? You can avoid the arrest by the police and punishment by the state law by tricks, but you cannot avoid by tricks the law of God. That is not possible. If you violate the law of God, then you will be punished. If you violate the law..., just like if you touch fire your hand will be burned, so this law you cannot violate. Either you are Christian or Hindu or Muslim, if you touch fire, the law of God is that it will burn. So it will not care for you whether you are Hindu, Muslim, Christian. So law of God is applicable to everyone. Either you are Hindu or Muslim or Christian or you have got this faith or that faith, doesn't matter. So we have got such a God whose laws are equally respectable.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Universal.

Prabhupāda: Universal. We present such God.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Moreover, we present a God that is lovable.

Prabhupāda: Lovable, yes. Practical. Anyone who comes in touch with Him, he becomes a lover of..., immediately. How you can say that is not God? You have to prove that He is not God. That you cannot.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: How many qualifications does a spiritual master have in terms of being a spiritual master?

Prabhupāda: One qualification: he is a devotee of God. That's all.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Also is he designated?

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: So the Indians who are outside India, they have got a special duty. So far our economic condition is concerned, as I explained yesterday, that one is destined to certain material comforts and discomforts, according to his body—already he has got. So either you stay in India or you stay in America, the bodily comforts or sense gratification, that will be achieved either in India or America. What you are destined to achieve, you will have it because as soon as your body is manufactured, your standard of comfort and discomfort is also manufactured. In Bengal there is a proverb that yethā deoyā bhange, kapāla yābe saṅge(?): "Wherever you go, your fortune will go with you." Fortune and misfortune, that will also go with you. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said one thing, that "Any Indian, any man who has taken birth on the soil of Bhāratavarṣa, India, he has got a special duty. And that duty is to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra

janma sārthaka kari kara para-upakāra

(CC Adi 9.41)

To do good to others, para-upakāra. So those Indians who are here, it is all right you are earning for some economic development, but at the same time, you try to make your life perfect by Kṛṣṇa consciousness and spread it to the foreigners as far as possible. That's your duty, not that, that you are getting decent salary than India, and enjoy life and forget your culture. That is suicidal. You have got a culture...

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: But Hebrew... Hebrew, Indian, there are... The aims is the same—back to home, back to Godhead. The process may be different. The process may be different. Just like everyone wants some money. Without money he cannot exist. The process may be different, how he's earning money. Similarly, every religion, the aim is to go back to home, back to Godhead. Now the process may be different according to country, time, climate, men. That is another thing. But the... The same example. Either you are businessman or in service or working, craftsman, the aim is you require some money. Without money you cannot exist. This is crude example. Similarly, the aim is we are part and parcel of God. We... Unless we go back to home, back to Godhead, there cannot be any peace. That understanding is possible to develop in this human form of life, not in the animal form of life. Therefore every human being should take advantage of this human form of life and develop this idea of going back to home, back to Godhead. Either you do it through Hebrew religion or Christian religion or Hindu religion, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. If your aim is... Just like at the present moment people want money. If he gets money it doesn't matter in which way he gets the money. Money we must have. Similarly, the aim should be fulfilled. Either you fulfill it through the Hebrew or through Hindu or Christian or Mohammedan, it doesn't matter. But if the aim is missed, then you miss everything. That is the definition in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata,

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Everyone has got his particular type of religion or occupation. That's all right. Dharma. Svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsām. The result will be... By executing your particular type of religion, the result must be there. The result is "How I shall go back to home, back to Godhead." If that desire is not developed, it is simply waste of time. You may profess this religion or that religion or this religion, or that religion. It doesn't matter. You are simply wasting time by following the dogmas and ritualistic this or that. That will not help you. Phalena paricīyate. Whether you have come to this consciousness, "What I am? I am not matter; I am spirit. I have to go back to my spiritual." That... That is wanted. So either you may be Hebrew or may be Hindu or Christian. We want to see whether that consciousness has arisen. If it is not, then you have simply wasted time. Either you be Hindu or brāhmaṇa or this or that, it doesn't matter. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply wasting time.

Guest (2): But in order to really get any interest in any of these things, you should really believe that...

Prabhupāda: It is not a question of believe. It is question of fact.

Guest (2): ...that there is another world and that you go there or you come back and all. This is a belief, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: It is not belief. It is a fact. One who does not know, he thinks it is belief. That is ignorance.

Guest (2): So how do we...

Prabhupāda: You have to learn it. You have to become student. How do you expect to learn it for nothing?

Guest (2): Learn what? Learn that there is...

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not preset. That you can do, because you have got little independence. It is not natural to commit suicide. It is unnatural. So, because we have got independence, we can go from nature to unnature, and we shall be prepared for that. Just like a prisoner cannot go out of the prisonhouse naturally, but somehow or other he arranges to jump over the wall and goes away. Then he becomes again criminal, for farther (indistinct). Naturally, the prisoners cannot go out of the prisonhouse. Somehow or other, he manages to go out. That means he becomes again criminal. He will be again arrested, and his term of imprisonment will be increased, or he will be punished more. So naturally we cannot violate the destiny, but if we do it, then we suffer(?). But our destiny can be changed by Kṛṣṇa when we are Kṛṣṇa conscious. That we do not do, but Kṛṣṇa will do. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: (BG 18.66) "I shall give you protection." So that change takes place for my protection by Kṛṣṇa. There are two stages: nondevotee and devotee. The nondevotee is under the control of material nature, and devotee is under the direct control of Kṛṣṇa. Just like a big man. In the office there are many employees, they are controlled by different departmental superintendent. But the small man at home is controlling his children directly. The controller, he is controller both in the office and factory and home, but at home he is controller directly; outside home he is controller indirectly. But he is controller always. Similarly, God is controller always. When one becomes devotee, he is controlled directly by God. When he is nondevotee, he is controlled by His agent, māyā. But he has to be controlled. Just like every citizen of America is controlled by the government. When he's all right, his civil department controls him. When he's not all right, then the criminal department controls him. But he cannot say that "I am not controlled." That is not possible. If somebody says, "I am not controlled," he is not sane. He is crazy. Everyone is controlled. So either you be controlled directly by God or you be controlled by his agency. Being controlled by māyā, you spoil your life.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bondage means material. In spiritual life there is no bondage.

Guest (2): How about love between people? Just like this... Is that bondage also?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also bondage. Suppose you love your countrymen. So you want to remain a faithful national, so you will get your birth again in this country or that country, as you like. (doorbell rings) So either you get your birth in India or in America, it doesn't matter. You are bound up by the laws of nature. It is not that Americans do not die, only Indians die. Everyone dies. So that is also bondage.

Guest (1): How about love towards relatives? They say, "Love your parents," or "Love your wife and children." Isn't that also bondage?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): Does that mean you should not love your parents?

Prabhupāda: No, there is no love in the material world. You love somebody with some personal interest. So that is not love. Everyone loves. To be frank enough, a wife loves husband so long he is nicely earning, and the husband loves the wife so long she is beautiful. That's all. This is the love. It is not love. It is lust. Love is different thing.

Guest (1): How about serving the parents?

Prabhupāda: First of all you try to understand one point. Don't jump like that. The same thing is applicable to parents and everything. There is no love in this world. That is illusion.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: No, it is not possible. Kṛṣṇa accepted Himself a guru. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted a guru. They are God Himself. So how you can accept: "I can approach Kṛṣṇa without guru"? Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpā. Kṛṣṇa... When actually you want Kṛṣṇa seriously—you do not know who is guru—then Kṛṣṇa will give you a guru. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. He was advised by his mother that "If you go to the forest you can see God." So he went there. But when he was very serious, then Kṛṣṇa sent him Nārada Muni. So if you are actually serious about Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will send you some of His representative and he will take charge of you. That is the process. If you do not find a guru, that means Kṛṣṇa is not yet pleased, either you are not serious. Just like when you become serious of studying any subject matter, you find out some college, some institution. You cannot purchase the books and read at home and become expert engineer, expert, no. That is not the process. Therefore the Vedic knowledge is called śruti. Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). So we have to hear by paramparā system. You attend the lectures of a professor because he has heard. He has listened the same instruction from his professor. You don't go to a professor who has never gone to school and college. Do you go there? So this knowledge... As material knowledge is received by paramparā, similarly, spiritual knowledge is received also by paramparā. Kṛṣṇa says in the Fourth Chapter, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). By paramparā system. Sa kāleneha mahatā yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa: "Because the paramparā was lost, therefore the science was lost. Therefore I shall again say the same system to you." Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam: (BG 4.3) "I am trying to speak to you because you are My devotee. You are very dear friend." So similarly, one has to become a dear friend of Kṛṣṇa and devotee of Kṛṣṇa before he can understand what Kṛṣṇa says. You see? There are so many Bhagavad-gītā editions in all the countries. So many big, big scholars presented Bhagavad-gītā. There was not a single person converted to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Do you agree to this point? Before this movement not a single person... Now there hundreds and thousands are coming because the Bhagavad-gītā is presented as it is, not with adulteration. Now our Bhagavad-gītā As It Is... Have you brought book?

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: ...body, and the body is considered as the dress, and the person who is dressed, that is within.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

(BG 2.13)

Just like this child, this is a dress. Now, after some days this dress will be changed to another dress. After some time another dress, another dress. This body is dress, we should understand, but the person who is putting on the dress... Just like I remember my childhood state, dress and condition, my youthful condition. So many things I remember. So although the body has changed—either you say it has grown or changed—I am the same. Therefore conclusion should be that after giving up this dress, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), I must have another body. This is the proof of immortality of the soul and transmigration from one body to another. Now, there are 8,400,000's of different dresses. There are 900,000 dresses within the water, then plants and trees, then insects, then birds. This is evolution of different dresses. The spirit soul is passing through different dresses.

Ambassador Keating: Both the human and the animals?

Prabhupāda: Just so. Spirit soul individual. He is passing through the evolutionary process. Evolutionary process means as he is desiring, nature is supplying a particular type of body.

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: God or anything, we have to serve.

Mrs. Keating: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is our constitutional position. Just like eating and drinking. You may eat something, I may eat something, but eating is essential. You cannot say that I don't eat. That is not possible. Eating, sleeping, mating, defending—these are the bodily necessities. Similarly, the soul's necessity is to serve someone. Either you serve your country or your society or your family or your community, or at least if you nothing to serve, then you keep a dog and serve it. (laughter)

Mrs. Keating: Or what?

Śyāmasundara: A dog.

Mrs. Keating: Oh, a dog, yeah.

Prabhupāda: Therefore, the conclusion is that I have to serve. This is our position. Do you admit?

Mrs. Keating: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Suppose I say that I don't serve. That is not possible. That being our constitutional position then, just like my finger, it is serving, always, sometimes doing like that, sometimes doing like that, sometimes doing like that. The finger's business is to serve. As part and parcel of my body, the finger's business is to serve the whole body. Similarly, we are part and parcel of God. Our essential business is to serve God. How do you find this argument? Do you refute this argument?

Mrs. Keating: You serve and you share.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Five to ten percent. Now fifty thousand at five to ten percent, how much? Unnecessarily you have to (indistinct). And to take back that octroi, I have got experience when I was in Allahabad doing business, you know, to take back the octroi, it is hanging. I could not develop my wholesale business due to the octroi. Then I arranged, because I was agent of Dr. Bose's factory. I was disbursing goods direct from Calcutta and sending bill from Allahabad. Octroi botheration I have got experience. You cannot do any large-scale business, the rascal government do not (indistinct) it. Due to this octroi botheration, nobody can do any large-scale business. Either you have to keep your go-down beyond the octroi limit.

Indian man: You can do that.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Indian man: You can do that here in..., because the octroi limit is very close to your (indistinct). It's just (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Why the government is still keeping this octroi botheration, I do not know. It is old system. Practically in UP and Punjab, this octroi system. In Bihar there is no octroi, in Bengal there is no octroi. I think in Bombay also, Bombay, I mean Maharastra province, there is no octroi. Only in UP and Punjab. There is so much botheration.

Pañca-draviḍa: In Harayana also.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Pañca-draviḍa: Harayana also.

Prabhupāda: Harayana also. (break)

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is our point. That is our point. Now, who is that person, or what is that substance which is controlling the law of nature, that is not yet known to the science.

Krishna Tiwari: No.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But we, either you say "believe" or you know, we know.

Krishna Tiwari: Well that's okay. Okay, because everybody is free to believe in it, but one cannot say.

Prabhupāda: That is the point. You don't believe that; we believe that.

Krishna Tiwari: No, that is not true. I didn't say that. I agreed with it. But I do not know who the person is...

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Krishna Tiwari: ...when I will have...

Prabhupāda: I don't say who, but you have to believe that there is a person and there is a superior authority.

Krishna Tiwari: Person, I don't think so. It's not from person. Not in my opinion.

Prabhupāda: Or not person; something, something superior to these laws of material nature. That you have to accept.

Krishna Tiwari: Okay.

Prabhupāda: That is our point. That is our point. That's all.

Room Conversation With David Wynne -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, our Society is association. If we keep good association, then we don't touch the darkness. What is that association? There is a song, sat-saṅga cari goinu asate vilāsa teka name lagi loma karma bandha phāṅsa.(?) Sat-saṅga. Sat-saṅga means association with the devotees. That is called sat-saṅga. So the, one poet, Vaiṣṇava poet, is regretting that "I did not keep association with the devotees, and I wanted to enjoy life with the nondevotees. Therefore I'm being entangled in the fruitive activities." Karma bandha phāṅsa. Entanglement. Here in this material world we act, and the result is there. Again we enjoy the result and act, again another result. We act, another result, another result. Because as soon as you act, there will be some result, good or bad. So, good or bad, by good result we get good birth, good money, good bodily features, good education—these are the effects of good work. And the effects of bad work, low-grade family, abominable, ugly bodily features, no education, no money, poor—these are the two effects of material good and bad work. But those who are trying to be transcendental both to the good and bad work, devotees, they are perfect. Because in this material world either you do good work or bad work, you have to suffer the material condition. Just like you are, suppose you are Englishman, you are well situated. But you can not avoid the influence of the weather. (laughs)

Room Conversation With David Wynne -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That is our problem. Either you become rich man or poor man, but you have to undergo. (aside:) Make the light. There is switch. (pause) So our position is that we are in this material world. George has sung that "I am in the material world." Yes, very sensible song. (laughs) He's good boy, realizing, he also... So this material life is not good. Material life is not good in this sense, because you have to change your body. Sometimes good birth, sometimes not good birth. Sometimes Englishman, sometimes cats, dogs. Because after death you'll get a body that will be chosen not by you but by the material nature. You'll create your body by your present activities, and nature will simply award you that body. So, so long we have got this material body, the four kinds of miserable conditions, repetition of birth, death, old age and disease, you have to suffer. Therefore, this human life should be utilized in such a way that we do not become subject to these four tribulations, birth, death, old age and disease. That is perfection. But people are not given that chance, the modern education, modern civilization. They've no knowledge; they do not know that there is life after death, although it is a simple fact. Just like in our present existence we have got past, present and future. Just like you are young man, you have your past. You are a child, or a boy, now that is past. Present, you are young man, and in future you are expecting to become old man. So as you have got past, present and future, similarly, I'm old man, I've got my past life, why not future? What is the reason to deny it? Past, present, future, that is the time calculation. I had my past, I've now present, and why is my future? They do not care for the future. They're so blind. There must be future. So what I'm doing for the future? Just like in this life we collect some money, keep in the bank balance so that in future, old age, I may not be in difficulty. Similarly, what a human being should do for his future life? That he does not know, although past, present, future is there. So this is foolishness. He doesn't care for the future. So one who is foolish, without any knowledge of the future, whatever he's doing is defeated—in ignorance, because it is ignorance.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: ...otherwise, in his preaching, he never stressed. He said,

kibā vipra kibā nyāsī śūdra kene naya

yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya

(CC Madhya 8.128)

"It doesn't matter whether he's a sannyāsī or gṛhastha or a brāhmaṇa or śūdra; it doesn't matter. If he knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, then he's all right." So this is very reasonable. One requires to know the science. (Hindi) People are interested in whether he knows medical science. That's all. He may be a brāhmaṇa, a śūdra. It doesn't matter. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa consciousness means one should be Kṛṣṇa conscious. He should know the science of Kṛṣṇa. Then he's all right. It doesn't matter what he is. Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Just like Śaṅkarācārya, (Hindi) First of all, you become sannyāsa. Then you talk of spiritual thing. That was his condition. And he would simply offer sannyāsa to the caste brāhmaṇa. Nobody else. Stricture. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu is very liberal, that "Either you become sannyāsī or gṛhastha, it does not matter. You must know the science of Kṛṣṇa. Then you can act as spiritual master. You must know the science of Kṛṣṇa." So he's Dhruvānanda?

Guest (1): Dhruvānanda.

Guests: Dhruvānanda.

Prabhupāda: Dhruvānanda. And what is your father's name.

Dhruvānanda: Devadatta.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, what is the miracle. I simply present that "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa. And just chant His name, holy name." And they're doing that. But Indians will not do that. They'll say, "Oh, this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, we have seen." And one, one student in Berkeley University, Indian: "Swamiji, what this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement will do? We want now technology." That's all. They take it as very trifle thing. Not seriously. Although in the śāstra it is said,

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

(CC Adi 17.21)

kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann

asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ

kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya

mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet

(SB 12.3.51)

They'll not take to it. So they purposefully remain ignorant, or by their misfortune, they remain ignorant. But those who are innocent, they take it, and they get the result. That's all. Fire is fire. Either you take it by understanding or not understanding, it is fire. It will act. And that is their advantage, that these European and American boys and girls, they have taken, accepted what I have said, and they follow. They're making progress. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā tato 'nartha... (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). These are the different stages. The śraddhā stage means faith. That faith is explained in Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Faith, the Indian vernacular is viśvāsa.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Well, let him come. First of all let him understand...

Guest (3): That man already comes. But tomorrow is Gaura-pūrṇimā. That's why I thought if tomorrow...

Guest (8): If he deserves it.

Prabhupāda: So let him come tomorrow. We shall see.

Guest (3): Tomorrow morning? Ācchā. The beads, Swamiji. He wants the beads. We can get it from the office?

Prabhupāda: No, beads, they also purchase from the market. There is no harm. Either you take it from here or from the market.

Haṁsadūta: We buy our beads at the market also. The thing is that if someone wants to be initiated, then he has to be prepared to follow some principles, four principles. Prabhupāda just mentioned them. He must be prepared to give up all intoxicants, all illicit sex life, meat-eating, meat, fish, eggs, and no gambling. And chant the prescribed number of rounds, sixteen rounds. And anyone can be initiated, but he must be prepared to follow these restrictions. Otherwise, the effect of the chanting will not be as...

Indian: As effective as it would be.

Haṁsadūta: Exactly.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: This happened in my life... This happened in my life.

Revatīnandana: Listen. Listen.

Prabhupāda: My wife was taking tea. So I asked her not to take tea, not to take tea. But she didn't care husband. Then I gave her final, that "Either you have to give up your tea or your husband." (laughter) So she agreed to give up husband, not tea. (laughter) So I left my home. That's all. (laughter)

Guest (8): Due to tea!

Guest (9): There won't be any place for me to go now.

Prabhupāda: We have got such a big house. We welcome all. Yes, bad habit is... Habit is second nature sometimes, but one should be determined. Therefore we have got four āśramas: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Whichever is suitable. Just like here. He's gṛhastha. His wife, children, all are devotees. So he doesn't require to become a sannyāsī.

Guest (1): He is lucky.

Prabhupāda: Yes, lucky.

Guest (9): He is lucky. For some of them, half of them, they go here, half of them go there.

Prabhupāda: He has good wife, good children, all favorable for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He does not...

Guest (8): This is Prabhupāda's mercy really.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, this kind of family life is very suitable. This is wanted. All the wife... His wife is very nice girl. And she is good devotee. So if wife is favorable, then everything is favorable. Household life means cooperation with wife. Na gṛhaṁ gṛham ity āhur gṛhiṇī gṛham ucyate. Just like we are also living within a room, gṛha. But we are sannyāsī. What is the difference between gṛhastha and sannyāsī? He lives with his wife. Gṛhiṇī gṛham ity āhuḥ. Gṛhiṇī means "the wife is gṛha." So if the wife is favorable, devotee, then there is no use of giving up family life. That's all. We have got so many married couples. Just like this boy. He's married. His wife is there. They are favorable. Both husband and wife, they have dedicated life for Kṛṣṇa. So it is very nice. It is not that he has to become sannyāsī. No. Why? There is no necessity. Gṛhe vā vanete thāko. Either you become sannyāsī or gṛhastha, the life must be dedicated for Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is required. And for Kṛṣṇa's sake, if we have to give up something, is that very difficult job? If Kṛṣṇa wants that "You give up this habit,"... Just like Kṛṣṇa says... If you become devotee of Kṛṣṇa... Now, Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). So Kṛṣṇa wants that patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalam, "Vegetable, milk, rice, grains, you can give Me." So you have to please Kṛṣṇa. You live on this, what Kṛṣṇa says, and take Kṛṣṇa's prasādam. That's all. (People coming in) Aiye. (Hindi) (break)

Prabhupāda: "...my dear boy, what best learning you have learned?" He was child, boy. So he said, tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehināṁ sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5). "My dear father..." He did not address father as "Father." He addressed him as asura-varya, "the best of the asuras."

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: At least, you follow the leadership of Buddha.

Buddhist Monk (1): Leadership, that's correct.

Prabhupāda: So that is, I am pointing out. Leadership,... God means "the leader." According to Vedic injunction, God means "the supreme leader." Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is the chief living entity. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). God means the Supreme Leader. So leader you have to accept. That is the conception of God. Either you select Buddha or Lenin or somebody else, you have to accept one leader and follow. That is your business. So our philosophy is that Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, He's the Supreme Leader. And we are to obey His orders. This is our philosophy. So if you do not obey the orders of Kṛṣṇa, if you obey the orders of Lord Buddha, or somebody obeys the orders of Lenin, the principle is there that you have to follow the orders of somebody. Now, you select Lenin, Kṛṣṇa or Buddha or Gandhi or anyone. That is a different thing. But the principle—to accept one leader and follow his leadership—is there everywhere. That nobody can change. That is not possible. So the professor could not give me any satisfactory answer, you see. The leadership you have to accept. You cannot do anything independently. You have to accept. That is our constitutional position, that we have to follow somebody. Now you select whom you shall follow. If you are following the most perfect, then you become perfect. And if you are following less perfect or imperfect, then you are imperfect. This is our philosophy. You have to follow some leader. If your leader is perfect, then you are perfect. If your leader is not perfect, then you are also not perfect.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Cardinal Danielou: But the commandment practical can be various.

Prabhupāda: No. Just like God, if God says that: "You can do this," that is not sin. But if God says that: "You cannot do it", then it is sin.

Cardinal Danielou: When God says that it is not good to Indian, and says to the Jews that it is...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Now take... Therefore I say that Jesus Christ, either you call him God, or confidential representative of God, both of them are one, when he says: "Thou shalt not kill," why should we interpret in an another way, to our convenience?

Cardinal Danielou: Yes, but Jesus eated (French, refers to passover lamb)

Yogeśvara: (French)

Cardinal Danielou: Mutton, mutton.

Yogeśvara: Oh, the sheep.

Cardinal Danielou: Oui, the sheeps...

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but Jesus Christ never maintained slaughterhouse.

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No, why God's flaw.

Yogeśvara: Because He has given us the chance to fall down.

Prabhupāda: Independence means that you may obey me or not obey me. It is not my flaw. Otherwise, independence has no meaning. Independence has no meaning. If I give you independence... Just like Kṛṣṇa is giving independence to Arjuna: "Now I have explained to you everything. Now I give you independence. Either you accept or not accept, that is your position." So if this independence has no such quality, acceptance... That is not independence. If one has to be forced by the law of God, that is not independence. Then one does not know what is the meaning of independence.

Yogeśvara: Then why has He given us independence if...

Prabhupāda: Yes, He must give because we, He, He has got...

Yogeśvara: ...if we misuse it?

Prabhupāda: He has got, He's the Supreme Independent, and living entities are part and parcel of God. Therefore you must have independence. Otherwise, how he becomes perfect part and parcel?

Guru-gaurāṅga: And if he did not have independence, that would be the flaw.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That will be the fault.

Bhagavān: That makes everything complete.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: He becomes conquered. So that is becoming, happening, that although they are American, European, Canadian, African, Australian, not all of them are Indian... Indians are also there. But because they are giving aural reception to this transcendental message, they are becoming enlightened. So anyone who will give aural reception to this message, first of all Bhagavad-gītā, entrance, then Bhāgavatam, then Caitanya-caritāmṛta, like books, then gradually, he'll be self-realized, fully cognizant what is God. What is God, this is... athāto brahma jijñāsā means what is God. So this institution is meant for giving chance to everyone to hear. It doesn't require education. Simply God has given him this ear. Let him receive the message from the ear. Śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. This is the process. Very simple process. Simply to hear, sincerely, then everything will be done gradually. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). By hearing, the mirror of consciousness, consciousness is just like a mirror. It is now covered with dust. Mārjanam. Mirror, if you cleanse with a duster, then you can see clearly what is your face. So by this chanting process and hearing, gradually the dirty things in the heart will be cleansed. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). Simply hearing about Kṛṣṇa is puṇya, pious activities. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. Either you hear or you chant. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. Hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi. There are so many dirty things, nonsense things, within the heart. Hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi, vidhunoti, is washed. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. Who is...? Find out this verse. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. In the First Canto, first part, Third Chapter. Where is Paṇḍita Mahārāja? Call him. Śṛṇvatām, you can find out in the index.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Nobody has intelligence. It will not, it will not stay. It will be spoiled. Joint mess organization. In Los Angeles, they're also doing business. They're going to sell books. But regulative principle is observed. Huge expenditure they have got. No center is so improved as Los Angeles. We have purchased six houses. And I wanted immediately two lakhs, immediately sent. You cannot pay. You simply want to take. In India, nobody can pay. If I want two lakhs, nobody can pay. But all this money have been taken from U.S.A. I asked Bali Mardana, I asked Karandhara. They paid me for this Bombay affair, sixteen, eighteen lakhs. (break) ...and breathing also does not stop. It goes very slow. Therefore he cannot be immortal. And Bhagavad-gītā proposes, that is wonderful thing, if you can stop death. And whole spiritual life means how to stop death. That is Bhāgavata's instruction, "Don't accept guru, don't accept father, don't accept, or don't be father, don't be mother, don't be, if you cannot stop death." Either you don't accept, or don't become. Just like they want guru. So don't accept a guru who cannot stop your death. And from guru's side, it is advised, "Don't become guru if you cannot stop the death of your disciple." This is Bhāgavatam's statement. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to stop death, live eternally with Kṛṣṇa, go back to home, back to Godhead. This is our movement. So our guru gives us this opportunity, no more death. Tyaktvā... After leaving this body, you don't accept any more material body. And if you don't accept material body, then there is no death. As soon as your spiritual, you remain in spiritual body, there is no death. There is no birth also. Death is concomitant where birth is there. If the death is stopped, then there is no birth. And if there is no birth, there is no disease, there is no old age. This is the process. So birth, death, old age, disease can be stopped only by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if you don't like to be Kṛṣṇa conscious then what is the use of becoming your disciple, and if the guru, if he cannot stop your death, birth and death, then what is your becoming guru? So 'mṛtatvāya kalpate. Yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete puruṣaṁ puruṣarṣabha. Find out this verse. Yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Pure devotee, yes. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He had no other business than Kṛṣṇa, everything. That is the ideal perfection. (break) Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. Everything is vacant without Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection. (break) No, that determination will come automatically when you are advanced.

Hṛdayānanda: It's wonderful to hear you talk about Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is wonderful, either I talk or you talk. (laughs) He's wonderful. A sweetmeat is sweet. Either you give or I give, it is sweet. (break) ...your scientist will try to understand that "Kṛṣṇa has given us the metal, Kṛṣṇa has given us the intelligence, now we have prepared nice airship, and Kṛṣṇa has given us the sky to fly." Appreciate like that. Then your Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Actually that is the fact. If there was no sky, where would you fly your scientific advancement? And if there was no metal, how could you manufacture? If you had no intelligence, how could you do it? So everything is given by Kṛṣṇa, and you are denying Kṛṣṇa. How fool you are, just see? This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Simply accept that "Everything is given by Kṛṣṇa. We are utilizing it." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Bali Mardana: Only when Kṛṣṇa takes it away, then they turn to him.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali Mardana: "Save us."

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa wants that much, that you accept that "All facilities are given by Me," that much.

Yaśomatīnandana: Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1).

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are so many things. Actually, if the American nation take it seriously, "In God we trust," ...They must take it seriously because it is Constitution. Then the whole world will change. The whole world will change. Not only that. The Americans... Just like they are always combatting with the Communists. Similarly, the American nation should be so strong that anyone godless, he should be fired. Any nation who does not believe in God, war declared. "Either you believe in God or come on. Fight. Come under us." This should be the...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is like the...

Prabhupāda: It is not that God consciousness, just like our Gaurasundara, to go to a solitary place, and do all rascals and rascaldom. Sell the temple and go to the solitary place. This kind of God-trust, rascaldom, hooliganism, is no trust. You see? This is all hooliganism, nonsense.

Prajāpati: There is no trust without obedience.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. There is no... There is no question of trust. Yes. That is, that is the first requirement in the Bhagavad-gītā. "You surrender unto Me." That means: "You trust." I cannot surrender unto you if I do not trust you. That is trust. I don't believe you; how can I trust you? Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is full trust. "Yes, I must surrender to Kṛṣṇa. He, He..."

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Topless, bottomless. That is going on. It is a regular policy that girls may remain unmarried, and the drunkards and the meat-eaters may take advantage of the prostitution. This is the policy. They have no sympathy. So many hundreds and thousands of innocent girls, they're like children. And they're exposed to prostitution. They have no shelter. Now these girls who are with us, they're feeling some shelter, you see? That we are giving some shelter. Everything should be reformed, political, social, and be, you American nation—you're favored nation, that I am always speaking; you should utilize the favor of God and be yourself perfect—and be leader of the whole world. Anyone who is not believer in God, he should be punished. Because he's animal. He is animal, and he is posing himself as human being. Cheater. Human life is meant for tapasya, for understanding God. That is human life. This dog's life, cat's life, this is not human life. If you become a very powerful tiger, is that human life? They're thinking like that. "If I become as strong as a tiger, then there we are perfect nation." Then what is the use of tiger? It is simply kill only. What other intelligence he has got? So in your country there are so many things to be done. I give you the idea, now you take the leaders. (break) Rascal. Sentimental. Be yourself leader. (break) ...you give up all this material advancement. But there must be Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise it is waste of time. Live very comfortably, gentlemanly. Kṛṣṇa never says that "You live like wretched urchins." Kṛṣṇa never says that. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya yogo bhavati duḥkha-hā. And this was practically introduced by my Guru Mahārāja, that living in palatial building and riding on first-class cars, one can become the best devotee. Not that one has to live underneath a tree, imitating Rūpa Gosvāmī. That is not possible in this age. That is the continuation of my Guru Mahārāja, that if one is sincere he can remain a first-class devotee even in this material opulence. And if he would not have introduced, then it was not possible to come here and preach this gospel. That because the principle was to live underneath a tree, go to Vṛndāvana, and have loincloth, just like the bābājīs are imitating. No. Even in full material opulence we can become a perfect devotee, provided you follow the principles. It doesn't matter. Gṛhe vā... It was sung by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura long ago. Gṛhe vā banete ṭhāke. Either you live in the forest or in the city, opulent city, the business is gaurāṅga bole rākhe: always thinking of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Narottama māge tarsan.(?)

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Even I wanted to become a doctor. When I started...

Prabhupāda: Oh, whatever you want to become, the basic principle is sense gratification. Either you become scientist or doctor or engineer, the main thing is "Bring money." That's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Some doctors think that they are doing humanitarian work.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so long he will pay. That's all. "Hospital." In your country especially. "Hospital" means "to receive." But there also you pay, then it is hospital. Otherwise "Get out." It is no longer hospital.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I find doctors are most rascals here. They are greatest demons.

Prabhupāda: Why not the scientists?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think scientists are better than doctors.

Prabhupāda: Better rascals. (laughter) Scientists are better rascals. (laughing)

Karandhara: Well, doctors are simply out for money.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, it is terrible. They don't think about anything else. They just think about money.

Prabhupāda: They have been taught like that.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Girirāja: No.

Prabhupāda: Then? The president is one. Either you don't know or I don't know. So we must know what is that president. This is first point, what is God.

Devotee: By argument you can convince a skeptic of the possibility of the existence of God, but the reality of Godhead can only be really realized... I mean has to be experienced or realized, does it not?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a point of realization. But the first preamble is that there must be God, the Supreme Being. In the dictionary it is stated, Supreme Being. So as in every department, everywhere, there is a supreme controller. Same example. The president is the supreme controller of this state. United States. In another state, in India also, the president is the supreme controller. Similarly, taking the whole universe or many such millions of universes taken together, there must be a Supreme Being. Otherwise how things are going on, nicely? (break) This is our first point.

Devotee: The scientists say that everything had its origin with a big bang. All of a sudden one day there was a big bang and everything came into being.

Prabhupāda: What is that big bang. You do not know. It is your suggestion. Big bang means big brain or what? Big bang? What is that, a big bang?

Devotee: Noise.