Prabhupāda: You cannot take raw meat or bite one animal and take some flesh out of it. You cannot. But animal can do that. They are made for that purpose. But that is natural. If you take your natural food, if you live naturally, if you fulfill your natural desires, then it is natural. And as soon as you go against these things, that is unnatural. So if you give up your natural tendency as human being and take artificially the way of life of an animal, that is not natural. In human society the..., however uncivilized human being, there is the process of covering this private part. Even in jungle they cover with the bark of tree. Why? That is the human being. But an animal in the jungle, they do not care. They can go, the same jungle—I don't speak of the city life—even in jungle life, the aborigines, still they have got some cover. Now they are becoming naked, natural life, nudism. Huh? That John Lennon, there is a picture in his sitting room, standing naked. This is madness. That is not natural life. If you go against your natural life, that is madness. Just like a madman walks on the street naked. So these are... So our mission is to advise everyone, educate everyone to become exactly like human being. That you can become by understanding God. The books, educational institutions, are meant for human being, for knowledge. All the books all over the world, they are not meant for cats and dogs. They are meant for human beings. The schools, colleges and universities, institutions, they are meant for human being, not for the cats and dogs. So we must take advantage of these books, institution, knowledge, teachers. That is real human life. Just like your guitar.
Educational institutions (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: I simply came to see what they are doing.
Indian man: Which place did you come?
Prabhupāda: Kosi. You were present there.
Indian man: I was there. My mother also was there. I took my initiation at Rādhā-kuṇḍa.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Indian man: I was initiated at Rādhā-kuṇḍa.
Prabhupāda: In that parikrama?
Indian man: In that parikrama.
Prabhupāda: And I was initiated in Allahabad after return from parikrama.
Indian man: (indistinct) parikrama. That way I am senior by you. (laughs)
Devotee (3): From Indian people in America, we have learned about that.
Indian man: Huh?
Devotee (3): In America, we have learned from Indian people about that. (break)
Prabhupāda: Why not? You are qualified.
Indian man: I do not like to leave, not that I don't like to visit foreign countries. Just now, as a matter of fact, I don't have time to think of anything else except that (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Indian man: Until I complete that work...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, you have done nice. No, one thing is that if you come to foreign countries, because you have got qualification, you can speak in educational institution. They will welcome you.
Indian man: I was once offered an exchange (indistinct) by the United States government.
Prabhupāda: When?
Indian man: That was in 1950. (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: When you were in service? (break)
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Because we are spiritual beings. That I was trying to explain. That we have bodily necessities, at the same time we have spiritual necessities. This Western civilization, they are simply after the bodily necessities. Just like here is a qualified medical man. He's made... What for, medical man? He knows how to satisfy the medical necessities of the body. He has no information of the spirit soul. Is it not a fact? Have you got any idea what is spirit soul?
Guest (2) (Indian Doctor): Not from the medical knowledge, certainly not.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say that these universities, educational institution, all over the world, they are simply concerned with this body. According to our Vedic culture, to remain satisfied with the bodily necessities of life is the business of animals. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13).
Śrutakīrti:
- śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ
- kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca
- jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ
- brahma-karma svabhāva-jam
- (BG 18.42)
"Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge and religiousness—these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."
Prabhupāda: So those who will act as brain, they must possess these qualities. But who is being taught these qualities? This modern civilization is teaching people how to steal, how to cheat, how to satisfy your own sense gratification. You see? No tolerance, no complete knowledge. All fools and rascals, no knowledge. Knowledge means they must know what is the aim of life, what is God, what we are, what is this material world, why we have come here. So many things. This is called God consciousness. There is no such educational institution all over the world. Is there any institution where it is being especially taught what is God, what I am. Is there any institution?
Banker: Well, there are metaphysics departments in almost every university.
Prabhupāda: Metaphysics department is there. I was also a student of philosophy. That is theories only. Of course, they are trying, psychology, metaphysics, ethics.
Karandhara: According to traditional American values, though, the government should not take instruction from the church.
Prabhupāda: That is their... But... Church means... Because they've seen church is useless.
Karandhara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Now here is scientific church. They refuse to take advice from the church because at the present moment church is a bogus thing. So what is the use of taking advice from them?
Hṛdayānanda: That was actually... That was actually the reason they made that separation.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hṛdayānanda: They became disgusted with the...
Prabhupāda: Yes. It's simply, we can say, what is called? Stereotype, the church. Just like you said they want more pay. Payment... They have no knowledge, so what is the use of taking advice from such rascals? What is the use? But here it is not like that. We know the science of God. We know who is God. It is not a vague thing. Now you try to understand. Let there be educational institution. America has got so many universities. Let there be a department. There is already a religious department. So let the students learn the science of God. We have got so many books. Why they will not? They are actually appreciating. So this should be introduced in the university, in colleges, in schools. Why they should neglect such a, such an important scientific knowledge?
Devotee (1): When we try to introduce it sometimes, they very often say that it is sectarian.
Prabhupāda: Not sectarian. You do not know. Why do you say sectarian? How it is sectarian?
Devotee (1): They say that it represents...
Prabhupāda: We are preaching God consciousness. So is it not for everyone? God consciousness is sectarian? Is it meant for certain sect? Or it is meant for human beings?
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Yogeśvara: He says one thing, one thing is very impressive, to see how well your disciples know the scriptures.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they have been educated in that way. For education we have so many books. If from child up to the age of eighty years, if one is educated, we have got sufficient stock to give him education.
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Prabhupāda: We have got our educational institution in Dallas, Gurukula. From small children we are educating to become highest devotee.
Swiss Man (1): (French)
Guru-gaurāṅga: (French) This gentleman says we had difficulties with the police in the beginning. And I said, "Yes, but then I went, and I gave him all your books, and he read them, and then there were no more difficulties."
Prabhupāda: Yes, on account of our books we are being appreciated everywhere. In the beginning they might have thought that "Some of the hippies," like that.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Reporter: Have you had any difficulty in bringing this, which seems to have originated in India, into the West?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Haṁsadūta: Have we found any problems or difficulty is bringing this teaching, which appears to have originated in India, to the West? Have we found any problem?
Prabhupāda: No, there cannot be any problem. Just like I am speaking to you. If you are sane man, you will have to admit this. The mistake you will have to admit, if you are a sane man. If you are something else, then you will not admit the mistake.
Reporter: Uh huh. But...
Prabhupāda: Now, the mistake is... You are talking with me; I am talking with you. Your body is there, my body. But which is important? Your body is important, or the force which is talking, that is important? Which is important?
Reporter: The force.
Prabhupāda: Just see. So who is giving? Where is the educational institution to give lesson about this living force? Is there any education all over the world?
Reporter: But you don't find that the fact that your monks are wearing robes or shaving their heads is a difficulty in the West, where not many people...
Prabhupāda: It is not the question of East and West. It is the question of human life. There is no question... The Western people also have this living force, and Eastern people also have this living force. So where is the difference, West and East? There is no question of West and East. It is the problem for the whole human society.
Haṁsadūta: She says now in this movement a new generation is being raised up, the children that we have in our schools and in our movement.
Prabhupāda: There... Therefore we are educating children even.
Girl: For the future
Prabhupāda: Yes, future generation. Because the so-called educational institutions, they have produced only fools and rascals.
Girl: (German)
Haṁsadūta: She says you cannot change the society? We want to produce a new society?
Prabhupāda: No new society. A new status of consciousness. We don't want to change anything. We want to change the consciousness because they are in ignorance.
Girl: (German)
Haṁsadūta: She says it is a great service or a help for the world.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Actually the idea is in the society as it is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). The guṇas are there. Just like naturally one is taking education just to become a politician, one is taking education how to become a high character saintly person. That natural inclination is already there, but that is not being properly harnessed. Therefore a regular educational institution should be there where proper training of brāhmaṇa, proper training of kṣatriya, vaiśya, must be given. These four divisions must remain there. And the, so far the brahminical culture, that must be there. Otherwise you cannot say that you become moralist. Where is the example of moralist? A section of person must be there, fully moralist. That ideal section is now lacking. Therefore, what I have written, that?
Brahmānanda: "As there are different sections of educational institutions, there must be one institution how to train up perfect brāhmaṇas with ideal characters as above mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā. If there is a section of people of ideal character, say 5 percent, the other 95 percent, by seeing their example, will follow. In other words, a section of the society must be of ideal character. That is essential."
Prabhupāda: So therefore this varṇāśrama college is very essential.
Governor: Both intensive and extensive training.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Proper training. It may be extensive and intensive... Doesn't matter.
Governor: You said 5 percent and 95 percent.
Prabhupāda: Ninety-five percent may remain non-brāhmaṇa. But this 5 percent, if they are strongly brahminical, then others will follow. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārāḥ-sahasraśaḥ. You have got millions of stars. Nobody cares for them. But people are looking after "When the moon will rise? When the moon will rise?" That one moon is sufficient than millions of stars. So this is the suggestion.
Prabhupāda: Nārada was a son of a maidservant, śūdra. He had no father. So dāsī-putra. And he became Nārada. So where is the restriction? Similarly, in the Jabalopaniṣad, Satyakāma Jabala, he was also a prostitute's son. And he approached Gautama Muni, "You kindly make me your disciple." Gautama Muni said, "What you are?" "I am my mother's son, that's all." "Then who is your father?" "That I do not know." "Ask your mother." So mother replied, "My dear son, I do not know who is your father." And he came and said to Gautama Muni, "Sir, my mother also does not know who is my father." Then Gautama Muni said, "Yes, you are brāhmaṇa. Come on. I shall..." Because speaking truth. So unless you are a son of a brāhmaṇa, you cannot speak such secret truth. Nobody will say that "I do not know who is my father." It is social scandal even up to date. But he plainly said that "My mother does not know who is my father." So immediately Gautama Muni accepted him as brāhmaṇa: "You are telling the truth." Satya śamaḥ damaḥ. Because it is first qualification. So such a high cultural life. Now we should take standard śāstra and follow and establish educational institution to train them. Otherwise, simply by crying in the wilderness, what will be the result? Now some result is there because I am practically training them. And before me, all the swamis went there. They lectured, that's all. So what is the meaning of lectures unless you train them?
Prabhupāda: Because we are spirit soul, we are neither this body nor this mind nor this intelligence. So one who is on the platform of spiritual consciousness, they have got everything, intelligence, proper use of mind, proper use of the body. Just like a millionaire, he has got all the lower grade possession. Ten rupees or hundred rupees or hundred pounds—he has got all, everything. Similarly, if we try to make an attempt to bring people on the platform of God consciousness, then he is possessing all other qualities: how to take care of the body, how to use the mind, how to use intelligence, everything. But it is not possible that everyone should become God conscious. That is not possible. Because there are different grades. But at least one class of men should remain in the society as ideal, God conscious. Just like for our usual life we require lawyers, we require engineer, we require medical practitioner, we require so many, similarly, in the society there must be a class of men who are fully God conscious and ideal. That is necessary. Just like in your body you have got hands, legs, belly, but the head must be there. If your head is cut off, then, despite you have got hands, legs, and belly, it is useless. So this attempt, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is an attempt to keep at least one class of men, ideal devotee, ideal character. At least, people will see, "Oh, here is an ideal character." That is required. That is described in the Śrīmad-..., Bhagavad-gītā, how to create a first-class man. Just like we have got educational institution for giving instruction on law or medical science or engineering, similarly, there must be an institution to make first-class devotee, ideal man. That is necessary.
Prabhupāda: People are after material gain. They have no spiritual information even, what is spirit, what is the need of spiritual realization, they do not know. Therefore they have been described as mūḍhas: fools and rascals. Those who are after material way of...
Prof. Hopkins: Do you... Do you think then that that, that message is the most important message that you have to convey?
Prabhupāda: This is the most important message. Because you are not this material body. Suppose you have got this shirt. If you simply try to maintain this shirt, is that very good intelligence, without taking care of your person? Similarly, if we are spirit soul and the body is just like dress, so the whole material world is, everyone is engaged to take care of the body. Nobody knows what is spirit soul, what is this need. Nobody knows. All these educational institutions, they are blind. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31). And the whole system is also blind. If a blind man leads another blind man what is the benefit? No benefit. Therefore in your country, every country, it is a blind education. No spiritual enlightenment.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Jyotirmāyī: Okay. You also allowed... You said that some parents can keep their children with them and teach themselves.
Prabhupāda: You follow that, brahmacārī gurukula, that I've already explained. That should be done. Don't bring any new thing, imported ideas. That will not be helpful. It will be encumbrance. "My experiment with truth"—Gandhi's movement. Truth is truth. "Experiment" means you do not know what is truth. It is a way of life, everything is stated there, try to train them. Simple thing. We are not going to teach biology or chemistry. They are not going to... Our students are not going to... Our students should be fit for teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. By their character, by their behavior, by their knowledge, that is wanted. Biology, chemists, physicists, and mathematician there are hundreds and thousands. We are not going to waste our time that Gurukula should produce a great grammarian, a great geologist, biologist, don't want that. There are many other educational institutions. If you can get a good driver of your car, so what is the use of wasting your time to learn driving? Is it not? If you have got important business, you can do that. Why should you waste your time to learn driving? Better employ one driver, pay him some fare.
Prabhupāda: You may be a son of a high-court judge, but unless you have got the quality of high-court judge, it is not that because you are born of high-court judge you become a high-court judge. That is not, that is not the quality. The quality is... So therefore I say that there must be educational institution for training brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya especially. And vaiśyas, they do not require any academical area. Kṛṣi-gorakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (Bg 18.44). They can learn simply by associating with another vaiśya. But brāhmaṇa, especially require education, Vedic literature. Paṭhana-pāṭhana-yajana-yājana-dāna-pratigrahaḥ. Kṣatriya also requires education.
Indian man: ...self-realization. Various methods, as many people are there, so many techniques are there. Each individual has to find out his own way.
Prabhupāda: Do you think that is scientific proposal?
Indian man: They say.
Prabhupāda: I say they are (indistinct). Just like you go to educational institution, is there any knowledge that is to be realized according to the whims of the students?
Indian man: Not the knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Then what is this? Self-realization, what it is?
Indian man: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: That is knowledge, that is knowledge. Self-realization.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: One lady lives in Vṛndāvana...
Mr. Dwivedi: He has written books also on tantra-śāstra. And I understand most of these ministers, they were going to seek his blessings. I did not know to whom he gave his blessings, but what I know is that most of these people were going to him. I only... One day I asked him. He's very kind towards me, so I go to him and dine with him. So I told him one day, I said, "Mahārāja, you speak to mahatlal (?) people to give some money to our institution." He said, "Mr. Dwivedi, I do not ask any friends or anybody to do anything for me or to anybody." So then I said, "Mahārāja, then I put one question to you if you permit me." He said, "All right, I permit you." So I asked, "Vivekananda has said that 'Service of God... Service of humanity is service of God.' Do you think it is correct or it is incorrect?" He said, "This is correct." Then I said, "We are running educational institution. Whatever good or bad, leave that aside. But in our own little small way we are rendering little service to humanity. And..."
Prabhupāda: But I may interfere. The... In the Bhagavad-gītā is there such statement, that "Service to humanity is service to God"? Is there any statement?
Mr. Dwivedi: Daridrāṇāṁ bhara kaunteya... (?) I think there is somewhere...
Prabhupāda: There is no.
Prabhupāda: Vedavyāsa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...Vyāsadeva is the basis of all education. " 'Later the saint Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja, in commenting upon the life of the great Mahāprabhu Śrī Caitanya, brought to the highest level of understanding these principles in his immortal Indian classic, Caitanya-caritāmṛta. It is good fortune of the world that these two spiritual works presented as the Encyclopedia of Indian Culture have been translated and commented upon in the style of a true scholar by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. Śrīla Prabhupāda, out of his obviously great desire to inject the world with his vast storehouse of learning, has translated precisely the rich Sanskrit and Bengali ślokas. He has given the transliteration, word-for-word meaning, purports, and each volume filled with full color illustrations by his disciples. I therefore wholeheartedly recommend this encyclopedia of our culture and all other Bhaktivedanta Book Trust publications to all educational institutions, schools, libraries, and colleges concerned with the moral and cultural development of their students within the boundary of Maharastra and throughout the world.' "
Prabhupāda: Very good.
| Page Title: | Educational institutions (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | MadhuGopaldas, Gopinath |
| Created: | 24 of Mar, 2010 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=17, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 17 |