Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa means God. So God, this word, does not explain the nomenclature of God. Now this Kṛṣṇa is Sanskrit word, and it conveys the full meaning of God. Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. All-attractive means He is full of all opulences. In this world we are attracted by one who is very rich, we are attracted by one who is very famous, we are attracted by one who is very highly educated, we are attracted by someone who is very beautiful. Similarly, these are features of attraction. And when all these attractions are reposed in one place without any rivalry, He is God. That is the conception of God. So Kṛṣṇa means all these six opulences in fullness together. That is the full definition of God.
Educated (Conv. 1968 - 1975)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Interview -- February 1, 1968, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: I have already told that religion means searching after God, every religion. The process may be different. The audience may be different. Just like in Christianity there is conception of God, "God created this world." So this is a fact. We also say. But we say in very lucid explanation from the Vedas. We don't stop, simply saying, "God created," but how created, how things developed, these descriptions are there in the Vedic literature. That is the difference. Otherwise there is no difference of opinion. The Christians accept God created this world; the Jewish religion, they also accept God created this world; the Muslims they also accept God created this world; we also accept God created this world. So "God is the supreme; God is great," that is accepted by everyone. But the only difference is that we give details so that modern mind, who are advanced in education and scientific knowledge, they can understand, whereas others, they cannot give in detail. Therefore they are deviating gradually because the modern, advanced, educated persons they want to know how God created this world, and that description is lacking. But we can give that. That is the difference. Otherwise the primary principle, to understand God—God is great; we are small, tiny; we are subordinate; we are maintained by God—this idea is everywhere.
Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:
Śivānanda: No. In the correct position then, the temple would be the center of the community.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Temple is open for everyone. Let them come and sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, hear Bhagavad-gītā. We don't say, "Oh, are you potter? No. You are not allowed." We don't say that. "Are you cobbler? Oh, you are not allowed." No. We don't say that. Everyone is welcome. Come on. And what is the business? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everyone can do it. And what is the next business? We read some nice philosophical portion from Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Yes. You have got ears. (shouts:) But the rascals are not coming! That is their rascaldom. Because they will go to hell. We are offering the greatest facility, but they are so rascals they are not coming. This is a rascaldom civilization. What is difficulty there? You come, sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, take nice prasādam, hear philosophy, see nice pictures, decorated Deity. What is the difficulty there? But their brain is full with rascaldom. They will go to cinema, they will go to hotel, they will go to some other thing, but they will not come to temple, or church, or anywhere where these things are being done. This is called Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means they are so condemned that they don't take facility of the highest benefit. They have been educated.
Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:
Prabhupāda: If one is not successful in this life, then he is given another chance next life. Where? Śucīnāṁ. In nice, transcendentalist, brāhmaṇa or Vaiṣṇava devotee or pious man, in his family. Or less than, if he is less qualified, then he is given a chance to get his birth in a rich family. Both the families. In rich family he has no economic problem. And in a pious family he gets direct opportunity to, I mean to say, advance his past Kṛṣṇa consciousness again. So in these two families he gets another chance. But unfortunately, those who are born in rich family, they immediately give up all principles of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "Oh, I have got so much money without any labor. Let me enjoy." This is māyā. He does not think... Because he has no education that "You have got this opportunity that you have no economic problem. Take this opportunity for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Engage your full time to become a devotee." Nobody educates him. The poor boy or poor fellow is misguided. He gets his friend, "Oh you have got so much money. Let us enjoy." Eat drink be merry and enjoy. So he becomes again cats and dogs.
Questions and Answers -- Montreal, August 26, 1968:
Prabhupāda: So your question, Rukmiṇī's question, Lord Caitanya's opulence... There are six kinds of opulences: richness, then fame, strength, influence, beauty, education and renunciation. So He exhibited all these six. He was very beautiful; therefore His name is Gaurasundara. Very beautiful-tall and stout and strong. There was no comparison of His beauty at that time, He was so beautiful, fair complexion. This time He did not appear in black complexion because people after fair complexion. So... And son of a very respectable brāhmaṇa family, and very highly educated. His scholarly manifestation you'll find in the explanation of one verse:
- ātmārāmāś ca munayo
- nirgranthā apy urukrame
- kurvanty ahaitukīṁ bhaktim
- ittham-bhūta-guṇo hariḥ
This verse was twice explained, two times explained: once before Sanatāna Gosvāmī and once before Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was considered at that time to be the greatest learned man in India.
Questions and Answers -- Montreal, August 26, 1968:
Nayana Abhirāma: Could you tell us about something about Lord Caitanya's production of Vaiṣṇava drama? Are there any of the plays that you know are still extant?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was playing Vaiṣṇava drama in His household life, rather in student life, and He was taking the part of Rukmiṇī, because He was very beautiful young boy. Formerly, in our childhood also, we saw in drama there was no females taking part. If there was a female part, the man would be dressed just like a female. Formerly females are not allowed. If one has to find out a female for taking part in drama, then he has to find out from other quarters, not in respectable part. Now, very, very respectable, educated girls are taking in drama and cinema in India. Formerly this was not possible. And perhaps in the theatrical performances, stage, that was introduced by Lord Caitanya, drama. But His dramatical performances were limited within the devotees. He will not allow to take part in the performance who is not a devotee.
Questions and Answers -- September 6, 1968, New York:
Guest: But why, why are they trying to transcend material, transcend material nature? Who is doing these miracles? Or why try to do (indistinct) Why should human beings try to do (indistinct)?
Prabhupāda: No. The yoga practice is like that. It is very good, that "Why we should bother ourself with such things?" That is the opinion of the devotees. The devotees, they do not want any such miracles to perform or to make some jugglery to the people. They are satisfied with the service of the Lord. So that is the position of the devotee. But generally, the yogis, they want such things. There are many instances of great yogis in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, just like Durvāsā Muni. He wanted to show his power to Ambarīṣa Mahārāja. That's a very nice story. I shall narrate next meeting. The yogis, everyone, yogis... Yoga practice is, therefore... It is more or less material activity. Because when they are powerful to show some miracles and people become captivated, "Oh, he is performing such miracle thing." In Benares in India there was a yogi. His business was anyone who will go there, he immediately produced two or four rasagullās and offer him. And many hundreds and thousands of educated men became his disciple simply for the matter, rasagullā, which is only four annas worth. So people want to see this jugglery.
Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:
Prabhupāda: In India, due to her long subjugation by the foreigners, practically the so-called educated persons, they have lost their original culture. Rather, those who are not so-called educated, following the traditional rules and regulations, they are more Kṛṣṇa conscious. And the educated circle, they are thinking that this religious temperament is the cause of India's economic fall-down. But actually, that is not the fact. So not only India, in other countries also they are trying to imitate the economic situation or economic development of other countries, especially of America, but they do not find that in America, although the boys and girls, the younger generation, they are born of rich family, rich nation, they are still confused, and they are also hankering after something better. So the policy followed by India now, that is, to imitate the Western way of life, is not very happy mood. This means they have lost their original culture. And so far Western countries are concerned, I think they have sufficient arrangement for material comforts. Now they can very easily take up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement because they have no disturbance for material hankering. And I think it is the time for them to accept this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to make them perfectly well.
Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:
Interviewer: Would you tell me something of your own background? That is, where you were educated, how you became a disciple of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: I was born and educated in Calcutta. Calcutta is my home place. I was born in 1896, and I was my father's pet child, so my education began a little late, and still, I was educated in higher secondary, high school for eight years. In primary school four years, higher secondary school, eight years, in college, four years. Then I joined Gandhi's movement, national movement. But by good chance I met my Guru Mahārāja, my spiritual master, in 1922. And since then, I was attracted in this line, and gradually I gave up my household life. I was married in 1918 when I was still a third year student. And so I got my children. I was doing business. Then I retired from my family life in 1954. For four years I was alone, without any family. Then I took regularly renounced order of life in 1959. Then I devoted myself in writing books. My first publication came out in 1962, and when there were three books, then I started for your country in 1965 and I reached here in September, 1965. Since then, I am trying to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness in America, Canada, in European countries. And gradually the centers are developing. The disciples are also increasing. Let me see what is going to be done.
Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Because I want to give this culture to the world, and my idea is that America is advanced country. If they accept it, then it will be possible to broadcast the idea throughout the whole world. That is my idea. But I am hopeful now because these educated young Americans, they are taking serious interest to this movement. And we are publishing papers, books, and they are writing very nicely. So I am old man, I may die, but I have implanted the idea. It will go on. It will go on, and they will be accepted. That experiment is done. If it is nicely propagated, then it will be accepted without any fail. And these boys who have come to me, they have taken seriously. So I am hopeful.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation -- April 27, 1969, Boston:
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That's all right. So chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and everything will be all right. And Buffalo is also doing nice. Oh, yes. The students are educated circle. They are taking interest, both the boys and girls. And three meetings I attended. Every meeting was full, two hundred boys and girls. They were dancing, chanting, asking very intelligent questions. And Rūpānuga is holding class. There will be some examination of the students. They accept papers. Yes. Some Indians are coming from long distance. One Indian gentleman, he came to see me from, what is that place? Ninety-two miles away from Buffalo.
Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 14, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:
Prabhupāda: In some lecture he said that "I want to meet some religious heads." And so one of my girl students in San Francisco, she is very educated. She wrote one letter to Nixon. And I have got the copy, that "Swamiji is spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is being appreciated by the younger section. So Swamiji will be glad to see you if you make some appointment." But he never replied.
Allen Ginsberg: Well, this university he chose because it's supposed to be typical of America. So if in this typical university the young people greet him by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, then he may well invite you.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) No. I came here with this idea, that in America they are in need of these things, and they are wanting something substantial. So if some is given... Of course, I am doing my bit as far as possible. But if some organized things are done like government help or people help, then this movement can be pushed further nicely. Otherwise slowly it will go on, as Kṛṣṇa desires.
Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:
Prabhupāda: He should always preach and travel. Always. There is immense field here. He should convince people that we are developing such centers. And you make a nice literature, picture. You go. He is educated. He is intelligent. He has studied our philosophy. He can go and speak.
Hayagrīva: But he shouldn't stay here at all.
Prabhupāda: No. He can come. He stay for some time and go, in that way. That... When he comes here you take his advice, what to do, and then you execute in that way. The final is yourself, whatever you do. He will come and... Now, for developing this center we must require so many things. So he can do the outside work.
Hayagrīva: Well, I mean I don't care that much. If you want to put him in charge...
Prabhupāda: That is... No. So far, if you ask my advice, he should do that work, outside propaganda, preaching. But as you say that his presence is required, therefore I say he may remain here. Otherwise, to remain here is not his duty as a sannyāsī. That is actually your duty, to organize the local management and everything. And his duty is outside work, preaching. He may have one assistant, and he can travel. He can educate your countrymen that "Here is a nice thing we are developing.
Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:
Prabhupāda: Some paper. (laughs) So inside-outside work must be done. Bahyābhyantaram śuciḥ. You know that verse?
- apavitraḥ pavitro vā
- sarvāvasthaṁ gato 'pi vā
- yaḥ smaret puṇḍerīkākṣam
- sa bahyābhyantaram śuciḥ
So we have to develop this center from outside work and inside work. Outside work means to draw sympathy of the people, to draw money for development. This is also required. We have got a very big scheme. It is not possible that by one man's earning we can do that. It is not possible. We require millions of dollars for developing. If we want to construct here temples, at least seven temples, nicely, so that requires huge amount. So outsiders' sympathy must be there. There is no scarcity of money in your country. Simply they have to be educated that "We are doing something very nice. Please come and help." And that will be nice, in my opinion, that let him come, stay here for one month, again go out for two months, again come here. And he sees how things are going on. He suggests. Now you decide whether his suggestion will be accepted or not. Then I am there, of course. If there is some suggestion, good suggestion. then my order will be final. In that way we have to develop this.
Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That's all right. In the meantime, you prepare the literature. You give me the literature. I'll get it printed somehow or other. You give me the synopsis. Both you consult, make a literature. And as soon as the literature is prepared, you will be out with that. And we have got so many centers. There is no difficulty of staying. He can stay in some center and go and see the important men there. He is educated. He is learned. He has known our philosophy. He can convince people. He can arrange a big meeting of respectable men. They must know what we are doing, the importance of this movement. And your people, your government, is anxious to have something tangible because there are already frustration in so many departments, in so many factions. So this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, will, I mean to say, smooth everything, pave everything. So they must know. And our process is very simple. We can introduce this process even in factories, even in anywhere, and we make peaceful everything. That is a fact.
Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:
Prabhupāda: If life is eternal, if living entity is eternal, where he has gone? What he is doing? Is he happy or he is distressed? Or he's born in America or China? Nobody can say. But it is a fact that as living entity, he's eternal, he's existing. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā philosophy. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). After destruction of this body the living entity is not destroyed. He is there. That we can understand. Just like in your childhood, you had a small body. That body is no more, but you are existing. So it is natural, when this body will not exist, I will exist in another body. It is not very difficult to understand. So this theory that body is eternal..., soul is eternal and body is temporary, that's a fact. Therefore this life, this present life, is meant for manufacturing the next body. That is Vedic knowledge. We are creating... Just like a boy. He is studying very nicely. So he's creating next body, a very educated young body. By education he can get nice job, nice place, nice position. So he's creating his next body. Similarly, we are creating our next body according to our karma. So Kṛṣṇa says that "You create a body so that you can come to Me." Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. The whole Vedic philosophy is that if you want to go to some planet—just like people are trying to go to moon planet. So you have to create a body like that. You cannot go in this body. They're attempting to go with this body.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:
Prabhupāda: Self-preservation. So self-preservation... They do not know what is self-preservation. That is another ignorance. They consider this body as the self. Their self-preservation means to keep this body. And that is also not possible. If you do not follow regulative principles, it is not possible to keep your body in good condition. That is also not possible. Those who do not follow the regulative principles, mostly they are diseased, some kind. We find in the medical, modern medical shop the customers are educated people. Mass of people, they are not customers in the medical shop. You'll find it. They are not so much diseased. In every gentleman's house, modern, you'll find so many bottles of medicine. But you won't find such medical bottles in any house of less educated persons. They are not so diseased. So this is one of the items. If you want to advance in spiritual life you must follow the regulative principles to rectify your mistakes in the past life and this present life. Without being freed from all contamination nobody can understand God. That is not possible. Bhagavad-gītā says, yeṣāṁ anta gataṁ pāpaṁ: "One who has become completely freed from all kinds of sinful reaction," yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām, "Persons who are engaged in pious activities only," te, "such person," te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā... (BG 7.28). This life, the material life, is dvandva. Dvandva means fighting or quarreling.
Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:
Prabhupāda: That I know. You are qualified, educated boy. You can do it. But one thing I can do, that you can live with your family just like they are living. That I can arrange. And whatever food we can provide you have to accept. We can... We can arrange for the education of your children also, everything. But we cannot pay anything. That is not possible. We can take charge of the husband and wife. We can take charge of your children. But it is not possible to pay. And besides that, when there is question of payment the service is not good because the payment means he is serving the money. He is not serving the cause. (tape of kīrtana plays for a second)
Guest (4): His old mother listens to these chantings. (break)
Prabhupāda: No, no, he has appeared to establish dharma. So what is the dharma according...
Guest (4): Śāstra-dharma. Śāstra means Ārya-samājī-pratiṣṭhā...
Prabhupāda: So what is that śāstra veda dharma?
Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:
Prabhupāda: Then you are welcome. I am asking young men like you to come and join me.
Guest (5): (unintelligible)
Prabhupāda: Aiye. Yes. I am speaking in English because my students, they cannot understand Hindi. But if educated young boys like you come they will be also able to understand English, so there will be no difficulty.
Guest (4): Thank you, Mahārāja.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Replay little. (break) Please try to understand the philosophy. Thank you. Yes. (Hindi) So you are welcome. You come. Live with us with your family. We take charge of you. But if you ask some salary, that is not possible. That is not possible.
Guest (4): I have my sisters and mother and father to support.
Prabhupāda: So let them come, all, and live with me. (Hindi) That's nice. (Hindi). That I can take. But if you want money, that is not possible.
Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:
Prabhupāda: What is the value of vote by asses? According to Vedic civilization, there was democracy but that democracy is selected committee. Just like in England there was Privy Council. So selected body of learned brāhmaṇas and sages, they were guiding the king, and the king himself was properly educated how to rule over, under religious principles. He was trained from the beginning of his life as prince. As the future heir of the throne, he was trained, and at the same time, he was guided by a council of learned sages and brāhmaṇas. They were looking over the activities of the king. As soon as there was some mistake they will see. And there are instances; whenever there was a bad king they were dethroned. Not for political purpose. He was dethroned but his son was on the... Just like Lord Rāmacandra did. Rāmacandra killed Rāvaṇa but He never occupied the kingdom. His brother Vibhīṣaṇa proved to be faithful. He was enthroned. From the same family. And that was the system. Even a king was wrong, he would be dethroned but from his family, either his son or brother, or somebody would occupy there. Not that "Because I have conquered you, therefore I shall sit down."
Room Conversation -- December 21, 1970, Surat:
Prabhupāda: The practice is very simple. Anyone, when you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, even child joins. Even a small child, he also claps and joins. Therefore it is recommended in the śāstras, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva (CC Adi 17.21). In this age nobody can meditate actually. It is very difficult. Maybe one or two persons can meditate, but that is not for all. But here Kṛṣṇa conscious, the chanting, is so nice, that even a child can take part. It doesn't require that he should be educated, he should be rich or he should be enlightened, no. As he is, simply if he takes part in this... Even woman. We were chanting. There was some roaring. As soon as we begin chanting, it stopped. This is authorized. This is recommended. And this is practically being... Now in European and American countries, four or five years back...
Guest (3): Chanting is mental concentration, is it?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Chanting and hearing, locked up. Mind is locked up. And because the Kṛṣṇa vibration is locked up, then Kṛṣṇa is locked up, because there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa and His name, absolute. Kṛṣṇa is absolute. Therefore there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa and His name, His form, His pastimes.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:
Prabhupāda: Vivekananda has influence here in higher class, among the educated class. They talk about Vivekananda and this and that, nonsense. In your country, fortunately, that opposition was not there. There was no influence of Vivekananda class men. Here amongst the educated class there is influence of all these rascals, Vivekananda, Aurobindo, and... That is one defect. But in the mass there is no influence. In the class, educated class. Because educated class means wine, women, meat, and Vivekananda allows this. That is the point. Vivekananda has no distinction of eating. "Eat any... All Brahman, all Nārāyaṇa. You are Nārāyaṇa. Goat is Nārāyaṇa. So Nārāyaṇa is going in the belly of Nārāyaṇa. What is the wrong? One Nārāyaṇa is going, being absorbed by another Nārāyaṇa." But he is not agreeable to be eaten by a tiger, another tiger Nārāyaṇa.
Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:
Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. You are thinking lower level, and how you can surrender to yourself? Then how you can get advance? Your surrender means to a superior person, as soon as you call surrender. And without this, there is no possibility.
- tad viddhi praṇipātena
- paripraśnena sevayā
- upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
- jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
- (BG 4.34)
We have to accept these principles; otherwise how it can make the... There is no possibility. Just like if you want to be educated. You have to be admitted to an institution, in school, in a college. If you say, "I shall be educated at home," that is not possible.
Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:
Prabhupāda: He knows Sanskrit very well. Compulsory. Therefore it is said, gacchet-compulsory. Tad-vijñānārtham... Tat, the transcendental knowledge, vijñāna, that is science. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva niścayate (MU 1.2.12). Eva is niścayate. Eva means certainly. And again gacchet, "must go." Now, just like to be educated, one must be admitted in a school, must be. Now, what kind of school he has to select, that is another thing, but he must. That's a fact. Similarly, you have to accept a guru. Now, whom you will accept a guru, that is another thing. But you have to do it. That is the injunction of all śāstras. Vedic process is like that. This upanayana, the sacred thread, upanayana. Upa means near, and nayana means bringing. Anayanam, coming or going, like that, nayanam. So "to go near the spiritual master," upanayana.
Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:
Prof. Kotovsky: I'm sorry. Only there's a difficulty. We can't agree that you have surrender to government or surrender to a king. There's a principle difference of surrender to a king, to a person, or surrender to a society.
Prabhupāda: No, that is... That is a change of color only. But the surrender is there. The principle of surrender is there. Either you surrender to monarchy, either you surrender to democracy or aristocracy or, what is called, dictatorship, you have to surrender. That's a fact. That's a fact. Without surrendering, our life is... There is no life. That is not possible. So we are educating persons to surrender to the Supreme wherefrom you get all protection. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mam ekam śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), aham tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. So surrender is there. Nobody can say, "Now I am not surrendering to anyone." There is not a single person. Difference is where he is surrendering, where he is surrendering. The ultimate surrendering objective is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19) "After surrendering to so many things, birth after birth, when he's actually wise he surrenders unto Me." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ: (BG 7.19) "Such kind of mahātmā is very rare."
Room Conversation Excerpt -- August 9, 1971, London:
Prabhupāda: Therefore His teachings, crude, teachings, cannot be now applied to the modern advanced educated people. That was suitable for those people. Now people have advanced in science, in philosophy. Now God consciousness ...and should be presented on the basis of science and philosophy. Otherwise people will not accept.
Guest: There's one philosophical point I would like you to elucidate. I haven't been able to quite understand, certainly the dualistic, incomprehensible... the dualistic-nondualistic philosophy which sees at the same time Kṛṣṇa, as comprehending all of man, all of the world, everything, within the body, we might say, of Kṛṣṇa, And at the same time however, one sees the world as distinct from Kṛṣṇa, in other words, as māyā, and as illusion. And it is this, the dualistic, I would like to... If you could just explain to me the difference between the... I mean, how this fits in, the monistic or the idea of the unitary view that Kṛṣṇa is everything, all and in all. And then at the same time that the world, there is this world of illusion which is somehow distinct from Kṛṣṇa. Could you just explain this point to me?
Prabhupāda: This is very easy to understand. Just like you are recording my speeches in the tape recorder. When you play back it will speak just like I am speaking, but I am not there. Is it not fact?
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupāda: It will appear now I am speaking from beyond this world. Somebody's hearing, here somebody's speaking. Again, when the record player will play... (end)
Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:
Prabhupāda: By Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Journalist (1): By Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: As soon as you are educated that God is one, Father is one, we are all sons, then the whole solution is made.
Journalist (1): Because there's no need for any one person to have any more than anybody else.
Prabhupāda: No. God has given everything. God has given everything, but if one party becoming demonically powerful, he occupies everything, the others suffer.
Journalist (1): Yes. But the difficulty is, and that's a very optimistic view of human nature.
Prabhupāda: That is civilization.
Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:
Prabhupāda: It is a disease. Disease. Lust and greediness. There are three qualities in the world, material world. One is called sattva-guṇa, one is called rajo-guṇa, another is called tamo-guṇa. Goodness. Rajo-guṇa is passion, and tamo-guṇa is darkness. So at the present moment these two guṇas, qualities, darkness and passion are prevalent. Goodness gone. Goodness gone. And the darkness and passion, the symptoms are greediness and lust. People are being educated to become greedy and lusty. That's all. Nobody is being educated to become good. So what is the use of these rascal universities? If they are producing greedy and lusty people, then what is the use of education? Vidyā dadāti namratā. Education means everyone should be gentleman. That is education. And if you produce lusty and greedy people there is no... This is animal education. The animals are lusty and greedy.
Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:
Dr. Weir: Socrates, Christ, plenty.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So here the love propensity is being misplaced in this material world. That should be placed in God. Then the love will be perfection. Just like if you pour water on the leaves of the tree or branches of the tree it is simply a waste of time. If you pour water on the root then the effect of pouring water is distributed. Similarly, foodstuff, if you place the foodstuff on your nose, on your eyes or your ears, it is simply wasted. But if you put foodstuff to the mouth in the stomach immediately the energy derived from the foodstuff is distributed throughout the whole body. Similarly, if you love God then your, automatically your love is distributed to everyone, every entity. But if you don't love, if you simply love your country... Just like an Englishman, you love your country; German, he loves his country, but there is fight between the English and the Germans because the love is misplaced. But if the Germans or the Englishmen or the Indians they put their love in God there will be no more fighting. Therefore our philosophy is to educate people how to love God. That is real religion. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That is first-class religion which teaches the follower how to love God. And as soon he becomes a lover of God... Just like I am Indian, but I have come to western countries to teach love of God. It is not that I am satisfied only in myself that I love God, that's all right. But due to my love to God I love others also, because I am trying to teach them to love God, the same philosophy. So if people take seriously this movement, how to love God, then human society will be first-rate.
Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:
Prabhupāda: We did not preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Therefore, we created all these things. Whose duty it is? Kṛṣṇa said, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. "Even one is born in pāpa-yoni, he can come to Me." That is now the duty of those who are elevated as brāhmaṇa and kṣatriya, to keep the standard. Even one is born in pāpa-yoni, he should be educated to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. But that we did not do. We simply hated. When, during Muhammadan period, if the Muhammadan will take some water from the (indistinct) and put in this way, sprinkle over, "Oh, he has become Muhammadan." This has been done. These are stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Now whatever is done is done. Now if you want to unite the whole world again under one banner, then this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the only...
Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:
Prabhupāda: Hear and narrate. So, whatever you have heard, you can speak. (break) So, in your country also they do not like this organized Christian religion (indistinct). The difficulty is that either Hindu religion or Christian religion, religion is one. So what is that one religion nobody knows perfectly, and it was not presented because they did not know what is religion. They are simply sticking to a particular kind of faith. Faith can be changed, faith can be given up but real religion, that cannot be given up. It may be perverted. Real religion is to render service to the Supreme Lord. That cannot be changed. We are serving, if not to the Lord, we are serving māyā. But my, that characteristic to serve is continued. So religion is presented simply on formulas and stereo-typed ideas, but actual religion is this surrender. Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. Bhakti means serving. Bhaja sevayā. Sevayā means serving. So, religion means to serve the Supreme Lord, that is religion. Anything which has no such idea, that is not religion. Then again (you) have different types of religion, how far they are making progress with, on that ultimate goal, serving Kṛṣṇa. The more we advance, the more you become perfect, our real religious life becomes manifested, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We say this is real religion. So what others have to say on this point? We say this is real religion. Bhāgavata says dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2), "All cheating type of religion is thrown away." The cheating type of religion means which does not teach people how to serve the Lord, that is cheating. They take advantage of the religious feeling. They say, "I am God" or "I am everything, you serve me, you give your money unto me, I shall give you some material benefit, atonement. You have made your confess, you are sinful, give me some money and you are excused." In this way religion is being perverted. Therefore, people (who) are educated, (they) say "What is this, religion?" They are becoming disgusted. But real religion is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness-surrender to Kṛṣṇa and you will become happy.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation -- February 15, 1972, Madras:
Prabhupāda: ...all the educated men. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). If the, who is called, elite society appreciate, then ordinary people will also appreciate. Before my Guru Maharaja, I mean, Bhaktisiddhānta's..., Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, Lord Caitanya's cult was considered by the higher class as it is the business of the low-class men. Even Vivekananda remarked that "It is the religion of sex," because they saw that the sahajiyās, they discussed this rāsa-līlā and have illicit connection with woman. So therefore they took it as the religion of sex. Vivekananda. But now...
Guest: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: These are the remark. And now we have to establish this, that this is the only way to reach God. You have to become scholar, philosopher, worker, practical behavior. And that is the fact. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66)? You have to prove it. And Bhāgavata says, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ: "Except surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, anything, that is simply cheating," cheating, kaitavaḥ. Cheating religion. This is challenged by God, "Cheating religion." We have to save people from the cheating type of religion, cheating type of religion, cheating type of dharma. It is so important movement. So this is very good thought of high-court judges. He has stated also, just before that, vicāra. You marked?
Devotee: Yes.
Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:
Prabhupāda: You can do as they are doing. They were not pure in the beginning. Now they are pure. Similarly, you can become pure. Just like in your childhood age you were not educated; now you are educated.
Bob: So what are the things that I may do? See, if when I go back I must...
Prabhupāda: Where you go back?
Bob: I'll be going back to Chaibasa, Behar, and to my work there.
Prabhupāda: What is there in Chaibasa?
Bob: That's where I do my teaching. I live there with...
Prabhupāda: So better do not teach. Because you do not know what to teach.
Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:
Prabhupāda: Why they don't acknowledge? Everything is being done by plan. The rascal who is speaking like that, he is educated by a plan, by his parents. And therefore he is able now to talk nonsense and get the Nobel Prize, for talking all these rascals. His education was planned.
Sudāmā: Just like his book was planned, so now he is given the Nobel Prize. He won't say, "By chance I won."
Prabhupāda: Yes. His plan to misguide the people, that is a plan.
Bhūrijana: They say that change is the principle. They say that change is the highest principle and out of so many different changes...
Prabhupāda: No. How the change takes place?
Bhūrijana: Change. Change. C-h-a-n-g-e.
Prabhupāda: Change, I say. How the changes take place? You are changing. You are changing from your childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood. So there is a plan. Unless there is plan, why one child is not, by chance, becomes immediately old. What the nonsense will reply? Let the rascal reply this, that here is a chance, that one child immediately becomes old man, by chance. Why there is process? This is plan.
Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:
Prabhupāda: You take millions of dollars, whatever you like." He is not going. There are many like that. They cannot give up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And you know our Jagatāriṇī, wife of Bhūrijana, she was a theatrical girl and earning millions of dollars, but she has given up everything. You have seen his wife, you all, Bhūrijana's wife? She is a nice girl, educated, qualified. But she is satisfied. I asked her to go and marry Bhūrijana. She never saw her (him). She never saw her (him), what kind of husband she is going to accept. But simply on my word, she came, and she came from Los Angeles to Japan and got married. Similarly I am asking one girl. She is a French girl, Mandākinī. So I am asking her to go to Russia and marry one boy. She has never seen. So they obey in such a way. The Western boys and girls, they want to see and behave before marrying. But they are so obedient that without any consideration... Because marriage or no marriage, that is not their consideration. The only consideration is how to please Kṛṣṇa and his representative. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya-pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). Bhakti-latā-bīja. Bhakti is just like a creeper, and the seed of that creeper can be obtained by the mercy of guru and Kṛṣṇa. That is Vedic injunction.
Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:
Prabhupāda: Because the United States, they are our best customer. A businessman goes to a place... Just like you have come here. Why you have come here? Wherever there is best possibility of doing your business, there you must go. I went to United States because I know these people are not poverty-stricken. And our Indian people, they are now, they have been trained to think like that—they are poverty-stricken. Actually, they are not poverty-stricken, but the leaders have educated them that, "You are all poverty-stricken." This is India's position. So far I knew that it would not be successful in India. The government will not help. The public is educated in a different way. They are after technology. So and "familiarity breeds contempt." They say, "What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement? It is known to us since a long time. What effect it will have?" Many Indian students in foreign countries, they say, "Swamiji, what will this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement benefit us? We want technology." So that is the mentality of the Indians at the present moment. They have lost everything and therefore they are beggars.
Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:
Guest (1): In the minds of some people the sudden attraction of Western youth to Eastern religions...
Prabhupāda: No. It is not Eastern. That is a wrong conception. God is for everybody. Eastern people, when I speak of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they say, "What is this Kṛṣṇa? We know Kṛṣṇa. What we have to learn from Swamiji?" "Familiarity breeds contempt." But in the Western countries when we speak of Kṛṣṇa, they see the philosophy. They see the science and become attracted. We, in the very beginning, we neglect: "Oh, what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" Otherwise there is no question of Western or Eastern. Kṛṣṇa is for everyone. Kṛṣṇa is neither Western, neither Eastern. But Eastern, our, especially Indians, they have learned to reject. That is their education: immediately reject it. This is their new culture, to reject everything. At least Jawaharlal Nehru began like that, "Anything Indian is bad. Everything London-made is good." That was his philosophy. And if one European would go to see him, immediately admission. And if an Indian goes to see him, three days he has to wait. So Jawaharlal made this impression, that "Everything Indian is bad, and anything made in London..." Because he was made in London. He was educated in London. So everything nice. Although in my household life I was doing some business in connection. I had to see Jawaharlal Nehru. So when he was common man, I went to his house. I saw it is completely Europeanized, although he is in khādi. So his father, he hated Indian medicine. You see? Motilal Nehru.
Room Conversation with Dai Nippon -- April 22, 1972, Tokyo:
Prabhupāda: This is... This is their atheistic theory. But our Vedic civilization is putrārthe kriyate bhārya putra-piṇḍa-prayojanam. Prayojanam. Piṇḍa, piṇḍa-dāna, offering piṇḍa by the son, is necessity, puṇyena narakāt trāyate, because the son delivers the forefathers from the hellish condition of life. There are so many plans, and they say, "Oh, there is no plan." Ignorance. We say that there is necessity of a putra, or a son. Therefore to have a son, a wife is necessary. Therefore wife is accepted. This is a plan. But they say that it is... "Whenever you feel, just like cats and dogs, sexually inclined, have sex." That's all. Where is plan? This is difference between atheist and theist. They have no plan. Sex desire is necessity of the body we have, and all of a sudden there is pregnancy. Avoid. Try to avoid pregnancy by contraceptive. Or if it takes place by chance, that's all right. There is no question of plan. These rubbish theories are going on and they are getting Nobel Prize. They are educated. They are philosopher. John Lennon is a philosopher. You see? This is going on. Ginsberg is a big man. George Harrison is a big man. You see? Eraṇḍāpi dhūmyate(?). When there is no tree, that, what is called? Castor tree, castor. Eraṇḍa. It doesn't become higher than this. "Oh, here is a big tree. Here is a big tree." Where there is no tree, that tree is big tree. So when the world is finished of all intelligent men, George Harrison is big man, that Ginsberg is big man, John Lennon is big man. According to Vedic civilization they are fourth-class men. This dramatic art was being done by a professional fourth-class man. Nāṭaka, māgadha. Just like Kṛṣṇa was taking bath with His friends, and there were some professional musicians. They were playing music. And after taking bath, all the clothes were given to them.
Room Conversation with Dai Nippon -- April 22, 1972, Tokyo:
Karandhara: He's asking how can he be relieved from such sadness when his son has died? How do we evaluate death?
Prabhupāda: Oh. Yes. So our program is that, as I have already explained, the success of everything depends how Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. So if you try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, then whatever you want, He will give you, benedict. I will give you one instance. It is stated in Kṛṣṇa Book. Kṛṣṇa was a student of Sāndīpani Muni. So when Kṛṣṇa finished His education, it is the system that the disciple gives some, I mean to say, reward, presentation to the spiritual master, because he has educated. So the disciple requests his spiritual master, "Now I have finished my education. I am going home." Formerly the student used to live with the spiritual master. "So how can I serve you?" So at that time the spiritual master, whatever he wants, the disciple will supply. So in the case of Kṛṣṇa, the teacher knew that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So when Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma asked his teacher, "How can I satisfy you?" so they requested, "My dear boys, I lost my child very young. If you kindly bring them, then I shall be very much pleased." So Kṛṣṇa went underneath the sea and brought his son back. This incident is there. So my point is that whatever you want, Kṛṣṇa will give you. You try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That's all.
Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:
Martin: This chanting process is directed to everyone, or just those who...
Prabhupāda: No, everyone. By chanting he'll come to this point. When his heart will be cleansed, then he will come to this point to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. We initiate a person, not that he is already on that standard, but we are educating him by the process, how to come to that standard.
Morning Walk -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:
Ātreya Ṛṣi(?): This is the only way, but they are not willing to listen. Recently I was in Washington talking to the officials. Our company is making a project for the government, $7,000,000 to investigate what is the best way. And every way it costs thousands of dollars for each person, and it's not even guaranteed. And they take them out of heroin and they are putting them on methadone or some other chemical drug, and that's their method. They are spending thousands and thousands of dollars and the person goes back to addiction after several years. No success. Our program costs nothing, and the politicians don't want to listen.
Prabhupāda: No. Their policy is that they want to keep the people in that way-rascals and fools—then they'll vote and they'll enjoy the political power. That is their policy. Actually they do not want to see their countrymen elevated good character. They don't want to see. If the people become... Just like the British government in their time, they wanted to give education. Their education means A-B-C-D, half-mediocre, so that the government may be run on. They require clerks, servants, so much, not high education. As soon as there was question of high education, they stopped. And actually it so happened that as soon as the Indian people became highly educated and they learned the history of the world, they kicked them out. So these people, these rascals, Nixon and company, they want to keep the people in ignorance so that they'll get vote and enjoy. If the people become intelligent brāhmaṇas, then immediately he'll be kicked out. What is his value? He has no value. This is policy. They don't want to see that people become elevated in knowledge. That is not their policy. Therefore, they do not agree. Actually they are seeing that "These Hare Kṛṣṇa people, they're so nice character, they're religion, God conscious, so if all people become like this, then where we are?" Because as soon as people become Kṛṣṇa conscious, they'll noncooperate with the slaughterhouse, liquor industry, gambling, illicit sex. They will noncooperate. Then the whole plan of civilization will be collapsed.
Morning Walk -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: That's all. They don't want to see people very enlightened. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." But at least how to become wise, that injunction has been given to you. Now you try to save the country, how to do it. These people will not be. You'll have to educate the people, and they'll vote you to the senators, president, and then your country will be nice. Just like by Kurukṣetra, Kṛṣṇa smashed all Duryodhana and company, and He posted Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja. That is the Kṛṣṇa's politics. He wanted to smash all these demons and have His own men posted on the royal throne. When Kali could not penetrate into the daily behavior of the people, he planned killing of Parīkṣit Maharaja. So, one Kali brāhmaṇa cursed him to death, for no fault practically. Therefore the brāhmaṇas of this age, they are condemned. The so-called caste brāhmaṇas, they're condemned. That is lamented by the father of the boy who cursed Parīkṣit Maharaja. (japa) (end)
Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: But a child or dog enters, that is not trespassing. A child or dog or cat, they enter without any permission. Therefore this animal kingdom and the human being, there is difference. By the evolutionary process we come to the human form of life. When we were animals... We were animals also. We are passing through 8,400,000 forms of life—from aquatic to plants, trees, then insect, then flies, then birds, then beasts, then uncivilized human beings, jungle, then come to this Aryan form, civilized form of human being. So it is obtained after many, many transmigrations. And if we do not understand the responsibility... Just like in an establishment one man is promoted. His first charge is doorkeeper, then he is gradually he is given promotion; he may come to the post of the manager. Just like in bank, it so happens. They must go through all the different stages of service. So when he becomes manager, if he does not know the responsibility, again he comes to the lowest position. Again he has to strive for the top. So if we forget our responsibility and become like cats and dogs, then we are going back again to take the forms of cats and dogs. This is a great science. Nobody is very serious to understand this science, but the science is there. We are, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate people about this science. They're neglecting this science.
Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: They are made for that purpose. But that is natural. If you take your natural food, if you live naturally, if you fulfill your natural desires, then it is natural. And as soon as you go against these things, that is unnatural. So if you give up your natural tendency as human being and take artificially the way of life of an animal, that is not natural. In human society the..., however uncivilized human being, there is the process of covering this private part. Even in jungle they cover with the bark of tree. Why? That is the human being. But an animal in the jungle, they do not care. They can go, the same jungle—I don't speak of the city life—even in jungle life, the aborigines, still they have got some cover. Now they are becoming naked, natural life, nudism. Huh? That John Lennon, there is a picture in his sitting room, standing naked. This is madness. That is not natural life. If you go against your natural life, that is madness. Just like a madman walks on the street naked. So these are... So our mission is to advise everyone, educate everyone to become exactly like human being. That you can become by understanding God. The books, educational institutions, are meant for human being, for knowledge. All the books all over the world, they are not meant for cats and dogs. They are meant for human beings. The schools, colleges and universities, institutions, they are meant for human being, not for the cats and dogs. So we must take advantage of these books, institution, knowledge, teachers. That is real human life. Just like your guitar.
Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:
Prabhupāda: Now, you are very intelligent boy. You can try to understand this philosophy. It is very important. And try to preach. For sense gratification people are wasting so much time, but they do not..., they're not responsible what is going to happen next life. But there is next life. Foolish people, they are ignorant, but there is next life, and this life is preparation for next life. That they do not know. The modern education, universities, they're completely in darkness about this simple knowledge. We are changing body every moment—that's a medical science—and after changing this body, we'll have to accept another body. How we are going to accept that body, what kind of body, this can be also known. Just like one is being educated, when he passes his examination, one can understand that he's going to be engineer or a medical practitioner. Similarly, in this life you can prepare yourself to become something next life.
Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:
Bhakti-devī dāsī: Can we decide what we want to be in our next life?
Prabhupāda: Yes, you can decide. Just like we have decided next life we are going to Kṛṣṇa. This is our decision: back to home, back to Godhead. Just like you become educated, after decision that you are going to be engineer, you are going to be medical practitioner, and in that objective you prepare yourself, educate yourself. Similarly, you can decide what you are going to do next life. If you don't decide, then material nature will decide. Just like a boy who is not nicely educated, without any future objective, the government will decide. If he's a criminal, then government will decide, "Go to jail," and if he's nicely educated, the government will decide, "You take this job." So everything is like that. We have got our future life, and if we don't prepare what is that future life, then we are like animals. The animals, they do not know.
Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:
Sumati Morarjee: (indistinct) brought up in United, he was in Bombay all these, he's educated in Bombay.
Devotee: Juna, Juhu?
Sumati Morarjee: No, no. Junagar.
Prabhupāda: No, no, Junagar is a city.
Sumati Morarjee: You know in Saurastra.
Prabhupāda: Saurastra.
Devotee: Oh, yes.
Sumati Morarjee: There, he was born, bred, educated. He is from Bombay and Junagar, Saurastra. Like (indistinct), (indistinct) last time before Pakistan came to my house, we were old friends, so he came to my house, so I...
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) was older than you.
Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:
Devotee: I think he is also well educated. He understands the truth.
Kulaśekhara: ...go to ārati?
Devotee: No.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
- māṁ ca yo vyabhicāreṇa
- bhakti-yogena sevate
- sa guṇān samatītyaitān
- brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
- (BG 14.26)
As soon as you are engaged in the service of the Lord, you are in healthy condition, there is no suffering. Just like these boys, they did not know Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa, two years or three years ago. But since they have been engaged in the service of, they are feeling very nice, healthy. Everyone is asking me, "Why so many young men are attracted by this movement?" (laughs) They think it is movement. No. They have taken the real occupation-serving Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they have (indistinct). When one is normally situated, naturally he feels happy and he's healthy. When in the diseased condition, he cannot be happy. When the disease is gone, in healthy condition, naturally you'll be happy.
Interview with the New York Times -- September 2, 1972, New Vrindaban:
Prabhupāda: Of course there are good men and bad men, and good men are taking to this movement because it is a good movement. "Good" means not having illicit sex, not eating meat, not indulging in intoxication, and not indulging in gambling. If anyone observes these four principles, he is considered a good man, and if he does not observe them, he is a bad man. So good men will take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and bad men will not. We give distinct rules on how to become good, for if one does not become good, how can he understand God, who is all good? First we must become good men; then we can understand God. God is all good, and if we don't become good we cannot understand Him. That's all. It's up to us to make the choice. The past, present and future are open for everyone. There is no restriction; no one says, "This class of men shall be good, and this class of men shall be bad." Anyone can become good. If we educate a child nicely, he becomes good, but if we train him foolishly, he becomes a rascal. It is the duty of the government, of the father and of the teachers to make everyone good. If the government is bad, if the father is bad, and the society is bad—how can the child be good? Everywhere the government, father and society are bad; and therefore we are producing bad men, and therefore there is no peace and prosperity.
Interview with the New York Times -- September 2, 1972, New Vrindaban:
Prabhupāda: Free choice. What is preordained? You are here of your free choice. If you like, you can sit down and talk with me, and if you don't like, then you can go. That is your free choice. Free choice makes destiny; if I act in goodness, then my future is good. And if I act badly, my future is bad. That is destiny. Man is the architect of his own destiny. If you are educated, your future is nice, and if you remain foolish, then your future is bad. Future destiny depends on present action. This life is an opportunity to make the next life, and if we behave like human beings, then in our next life we will go back home, back to Godhead. But if we behave like animals, then in the next life we will take animal bodies. That's all. All this is very nicely described in Bhagavad-gītā. The conclusion is that human beings are meant for understanding God, but if we waste our time understanding dog, and if we become attached to dog, then we will become dogs in our next life. And if we are attached to God, we become like God, in our next life. The choice is ours.
Interview with the New York Times -- September 2, 1972, New Vrindaban:
Prabhupāda: The government may create a prisonhouse, but why do you go there? Does the government invite you there? No, you become a criminal and go there. The prisonhouse is there and the university is there. Why do some people go to prison rather than the university? The government is not partial to people; it does not say, "You live in this university and be educated, and you go to the prison and live there." It is in the individual's choice. Similarly, God has created so many things, but it is our duty to follow God's instructions. God says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "Just give up all nonsense and surrender unto Me. I shall give you all protection." That is God's declaration. Why don't you take to that? God is all powerful, and He may create so many things for some purpose, but why don't you follow God's instructions? God says, "Surrender unto Me," so why not surrender? Why surrender to māyā? That is the individual's choice. Another example: the government does not want the youth to become hippies, but they are abandoning a wealthy life just to lie down in the street. In London I've seen many boys lying on the street. Why? We Indians may lie on the street because we are poor, but they are not poor, nor the Americans. Why has some of the younger generation accepted this way of life? You have enough food, enough house, enough money, facilities, machines—everything.
Interview with the New York Times -- September 2, 1972, New Vrindaban:
Prabhupāda: If one gets a diamond, he possesses something valuable. But in this civilization you are simply making plastic plates and plastic cups. Indeed, in Japan I have seen pasteboard homes. And everyone is thinking that he is advanced. Formerly people used to have golden and silver utensils, but now they have plastic ones, and still they are very proud to be so materially advanced. What is your position? You have a bunch of paper and think, "I am a millionaire." What is the value of that paper? Is that not cheating? However, if we possess gold or diamonds worth a million dollars, that is actual wealth. But we are educated in such a way that we think we are millionaires by paper only. As soon as there is some catastrophe, millions of such dollars could not buy bread. This actually happened in Germany; millions of marks could not purchase one piece of bread. All this is going on in the name of advancement of civilization, and the real purpose of life, God consciousness, is missing. So every thoughtful man should come forward to understand this movement and take it seriously. Why are the people being misled? We just have to try to understand this philosophy, the basic principles of God consciousness.
Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Durāśayā. This is called durāśayā. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Everything is explained. They are called durāśayā, hope against hope, but it will never be fulfilled.
Devotee (1): I've talked with some so-called educated people, they are impressed by Vedic cosmology, the concept of (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Devotee (1): They are impressed by what is called Vedic cosmology, how they knew five thousand years ago about the situation of planets. But then when you get personal, you tell how these planets are coming, then they will not accept. But they are impressed by the stature of the knowledge that is there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The astronomers and the cosmologists, they define the universe in three definitions. And according to their own..., they say the visible space, the universe, they say this is their laboratory for their research to find out the unlimited expanding universe. So this is their laboratory for their... So they call..., this is called observable universe, the universe that can be observed and perceived by instruments. Then another definition of universe they call unlimited. That includes the observable plus everything that is not observable. And the third aspect they call physical universe. That means this universe can be studied by physical laws, mathematics, physics. So they call these are physical universe. So based on these...
Prabhupāda: So how they can say beyond this universe there is no other?
Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: Very intelligent, educated, beautiful, everything. And I have asked her that "You go to Russia and marry that boy." She has accepted.
Indian man: She has accepted.
Prabhupāda: Great risk.
Indian man: Great risk.
Prabhupāda: Yes. These rascals at any time can arrest anyone and keep in him the concentration camp. Oh, it is a dangerous government. And they will take you anywhere, nobody will know. Just like even a great person, Kruschev, nobody knows his whereabouts. It is a very dangerous government. But as they are advertising, people are not happy. Moscow city is nice, but it is old constructed. The same Communistic government has not done anything. There are very big, big buildings, nice roads, everything, but they are all old, not new.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:
Prabhupāda: Yes, thank you very much. (to guest:) You don't take charge of that.
Devotee: We will take that. (break) Yes. This is Mr. Ivy Mastram and he is in charge of the Hindu and Buddhist Department of the Department of Religion. And this is his next-in-command, director-general, Mr. G. Puja. He was educated in India also.
Prabhupāda: Oh, really. Which city?
Guest (2): Benares (indistinct) University.
Prabhupāda: Oh, Benares University.
Devotee: Actually, they have arranged by giving a letter, that we can stay in the country. They simply say, "We do not object," and then the immigration gives us a good visa. They especially like your books.
Prabhupāda: Oh, thank you. You have read some of my books?
Guest (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: They are not my books. I am simply translating. They are written by Vyāsadeva, the original Vedic scholar. So there are now many secular states. Our Vedic idea of secular state is the government must be responsible of proper execution of religious system. It doesn't matter whether one is Hindu or one is Christian, one is Mohammedan or Buddhist. It doesn't matter. But it is a government duty to see that one who is professing as Hindu whether he's executing the Hindu principles of religion properly. That is government. Just like government gives license to so many businesses.
Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:
Prabhupāda: Mmmm.
Guest (2): Which we are expecting that this Bhagavad-gītā should be read by English (indistinct) and also, matter of fact, most of English readers can understand and they have the ideas of the Mahābhārata, and Rāmāyaṇa, and the essence of the Bhagavad-gītā. Now the problems, at least the department has (indistinct) facing difficulties to supply materials that are actually needed by the people, is we are lacking of materials. So how, actually we have to solve this problem actually. We are actually, from the government point of view always looking and how we can try to get international relationships between various countries to solve the problems. As the same case also how to educate Indonesian peoples to study more about the Hinduism in order they can teach the Hinduism because in our country religious instruction is compulsory in our, any institution. So we felt, actually in our lack of material as well as lack of institution to develop this Hindu religions. And I, from our government actually, we are expected your visit here that it will be beneficial, both for our side, from the government point of view, and as well as for here and as well in your country.
Prabhupāda: So I think your problems can be solved if you kindly cooperate with us.
Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:
Prabhupāda: So then they must know what is karma-phala. This is a fact. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). But they are..., do not know how to execute karma. They're doing all kinds of sinful activities. So, suppose after this body, on account of my sinful activities, I am going to become a rat or cat or snake or a tree, then what is the use of my so much, how you'd say, jumping over nationalism and this ism and that. If by nature I am going to accept next life the body of a cat and dog, or a tree, then what is the meaning of my, this so-called nationality at the present moment? Is it not the duty of the guardians who are taking care of the people or their son, to educate human being in such a way that they can get better body? What is that education? You are darkness, nobody knows what kind of body he's going to accept next life.
Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:
Prabhupāda: But they're not living, they're not living. They are doing all kinds of sinful activities, they are drinking, they are having illicit sex, they're gambling, they're killing animals. Very sin... Everyone is engaged in these things. Maybe few percentage people are not engaged. But the throughout the whole world they're implicated in these four kinds of sinful activities. How you can expect that he's going to have next body very nice? No. That is not possible if you believe in karma. According to karma... Just like here in the human society there is law that if you kill a man, you should be also killed. Similarly, in God's laws so the same law is there. Māṁ sa, māṁsa. If I eat an animal then he will have the chance to eat me next life. This is karma. Who is caring for all these things? Who is caring? Nobody's caring. They're slaughtering animals like anything. So this kind of adjustment will not help. They must know scientifically what is the value of life. They must take information from authorized scriptures. Then the human society will be profitable. Otherwise no. Just like there is next life, a boy is educated to have good education so that in the next life—means when he's young man—he will be happy. He's preparing for the next life. The boy is being educated. That means he's preparing for the next youthful life. Youthful life is meant for preparation for the next old age life.
Room Conversation -- March 17, 1973, Mayapur:
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was my intimate friend. So in their house, old Tīrtha Mahārāja went to beg some alms—they are very rich man. So, he informed me that "One nice sannyāsī came to our house," and he was invited, "in Ultadanga there is Gauḍīya Maṭha, so he has invited me. I wish to go there. Why don't you come? Let us go together." He was my very intimate friend. So at that time I was a little pessimistic (?), "I know all these sādhus there, I am not going." So he forced me, "Oh, why not come? Let us go." "All right, let us go." So I went to see His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura in 1922 in that Ultadanga building, and that time Prabhupāda was sitting on the roof. There was small house (indistinct) room, and we were welcome, because they thought Naren Mullik was very rich man and he has contributed some money. So, we went to see Prabhupāda, offered our obeisances. So immediately he said that "You are all educated young men, why don't you preach Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu's message throughout the whole world?" So I replied him, "Sir, we are dependent nation, who will hear our message? We can talk all these things after we get independence," because I was politically-minded at that time. So he refuted my argument.
Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Calcutta, yes. A very perfect gentleman. Kind-hearted. Sometimes we joked. We were taking this, what is called, peanuts. So the professor was passing. So some of our friends remarked: (Bengali) So he thought that professor did not know Bengali. So immediately he turned: (Bengali). So we became very much ashamed. Yes. So all the professors from foreign countries, they were instructed to learn Bengali language, local language. That was the system. All officers, big officers, educate... (Aside) Good morning. ...big educationists, they were to learn the local language. And they used to learn Bengali. Especially in Calcutta. There was one professor, Mr. Scrimgeour. He was professor of literature, English literature. So while teaching one English literature, he was giving parallel passage from Bankim Candra Chatterjee. Yes. "Your Bankim babu says like this." He used to say like that.
Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They were talking about the temporary existence of the material body.
Prabhupāda: Eh? That is foolishness. That is foolishness. Just like if you go into the sea and if you want to be comfortable. This is foolishness. You cannot be. You are animal of land. If you are put into the water, however, expert swimmer you may be, you'll not be comfortable. That's not possible. So you are spirit soul. You cannot be comfortable in the material world. You can struggle, but that is not possible. And they are simply giving bluff, "In future, we shall, in future." This is rascaldom. They don't admit that it is not possible. They simply give bluff: "In future..." You see. "In future, it will be," we can also accept that, provided you have taken the proper means. But where is your future if you are wrongly directed? A child's future is bright when we see that he's being educated, he's going to school. But when he's playing on the street, where is his future? He has no future. He's wasting his time.
Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:
Paramahaṁsa: Corpse.
Prabhupāda: Corpse, yes. You require everything, full body. You require head, you require arms, you require belly, you require legs. But if you have got simply the belly and legs, then it is a dead body. It cannot work properly. The brain is lost; therefore they are mad after so much advancement of civilization. They are exactly like cats and dogs. As soon as you enter some country, dog, watchdog: "Wowf! Wowf! Why you have come? What is your position?" ("Where is your visa?"?) This is dog's business. This is dog's business. (laughter) And they have set up immigration department. But it is a dog's business, watchdog. I say it is watchdog's business. A first-class gentleman is being searched out pocket, whether you have got revolver. Cannot be trusted, all these educated rogues and thieves. So what is this advancement of civilization? It is civilization? No sober man, no intelligent man, all cats and dogs, thieves, rogues. Is that civilization? It is not civilization.
Room Conversation -- July 9, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: The Marwaris in India, they don't educate their son. Just like Birla. They say, "We can purchase these rascals, why we should waste our time. (laughter) So-called technicians, so-called expert computer, these are... We can purchase, why we shall waste our time."
Haṁsadūta: It's the same thing I learned in Germany. First I wanted to get my own press and I studied the situation very carefully and I saw it was ridiculous for us to do that, it's so much hard work. It's much easier to collect the money in the street by giving the magazine and then paying someone. They work very hard and do it. Everything is like that. They have so many people that can do everything. The one thing that people can't do is distribute Kṛṣṇa consciousness and for that Kṛṣṇa's giving so much money.
Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovidaḥ. That verse. Only for this purpose one should endeavor.
Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: No, there is no aim of the education. Their only aim is economic development.
Buddhist Monk (1): That's right.
Prabhupāda: And that means a higher standard of sense gratification.
Buddhist Monk (1): The more material doubts people can produce, that's supposed to be the educated person.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: That... Again I am quoting that Professor Kotofsky. He said, "Swamiji, after this body there is no life." That is their conviction. This is the primary teaching of spiritual life, that we have got next life. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Dehāntaram. After giving up this body, you have to accept another body. This is the first lesson of spiritual education. But they do not understand the first lesson even. What is their spiritual understanding?
- dehino 'smin yathā dehe
- kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
- tathā dehāntara-prāptir
- dhīras tatra na muhyati
- (BG 2.13)
So dehāntara-prāptiḥ they do not understand. And it is very easy, that "I am, dehāntaram, I am changing my body. I was a baby, I was a child, I was a boy, I was a young man. So I have changed so many bodies. But I remember, I was a child. I remember. I was a boy. I remember. Therefore I am existing. My body has changed." Simple truth. Similarly, when this body will be changed, I will exist. Where is the difficulty to understand? But this plain thing they cannot understand. And they are passing as educated, philosopher, scientist.
Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: ...I am relating. "That kaumāra age, from five years to fifteen years, that is the right age for educating Kṛṣṇa consciousness." This is the word of... kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha, durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma (SB 7.6.1). He says that "This human form of body is very rarely gotten, and it is a rare opportunity for awakening our Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, is there in every human being, especially in civilized... So it is not an artificial thing. Just like my, all my students, they are Europeans, Americans. Four or five years ago, they did not know anything about Kṛṣṇa, neither they knew the name of Kṛṣṇa. But now you can see how they're absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So it is not an artificial thing.
Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha (SB 7.6.1). And this is the only opportunity of awakening our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if we do not give that opportunity to the human beings from the childhood, it is a jealous... Jealousy means that you have got some opportunity, but if I do not allow you to take that opportunity, this is called jealous. So every human being has got the potency of awakening his God consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in this human form of body. So if we do not give that opportunity, it is jealousy. Therefore students must be educated, and if you're writing such nice book, I think you will get, give a great service to your nation and to the human society in England. Because durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma, this human form of life... Unfortunately, people do not understand what is the distinction between this human form of life and animal form of life.
Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: But he played the part of misguided.
David Lawrence: Yes. What we would say and...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like a person is playing in the stage as a fool, but he may be very educated man. So... But for the dramatic expression of talks, he might play as a fool. Similarly Arjuna's position is... How...? He cannot be misguided; he's personal friend of Kṛṣṇa.
David Lawrence: Yes.
Prabhupāda: He cannot be misguided.
Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: No, not everybody.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: No, no.
Prabhupāda: Not everybody. But general mass of people, at least, the so-called educated, five to ten percent people, they are lost.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And so-called educated, they practically guide. You'll be surprised to know that in 1950, one of my students, he was a government statistics officer. So he went to some village, and he gave me report that the villagers inquired from him that "Babuji, agar angarej ko vote diya yai pasatela (?)"
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You understand Hindi? No.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: No, I don't. No, no, no.
Prabhupāda: No. The inquiry was that "If we again give votes to the Englishmen, will they come and do." (laughs)
Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes. But the people who rule India now have a western education mostly. The Indians who...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Perverted, converted. Just like Nehru. Nehru was western-educated. He was educated in London. But he hated everything Indian.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That was the res... Formerly, in our childhood we saw that any gentleman coming here in London and goes back to India, he no more mixes with the Indian soil. He... They were called "England-returned." So they made their own society. Then our Ram Mohan Raya, he formed a Brahmo Society. And so many things changed. Again, they are now topsy-turvied. So actually, India's position is that they have lost their own culture, and they could not assimilate the western culture. But in the western countries, if they accept this Vedic process of civilization, then they will again take it.
Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: Whole America speaks English language. Australia, New Zealand. In India also, practically all educated men, they speak in English. So in Africa. In Europe also, they understand English language. Not very much, but... (laughs) The Germans, especially, they do not like.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes. No.
Prabhupāda: They do not like.
Śyāmasundara: Only at the airport.
Prabhupāda: France? What is the position in France? They don't like also.
Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: So work is required. But godly persons, they want to live a simple life and high thinking, save time for understanding of God. The demonic people, they are engaged in horrible activities. They have manufactured so many things. So in this way... There are so many descriptions. Actually, by the increase of demoniac people, people are not very happy, and they are missing the ultimate goal of life. That is the defect of the modern civilization. They do not believe that there is an ultimate goal of life, there is life after death, and what kind of body he's going to get next. These things are not, neither in the university education curriculum, neither people are interested. So at the present moment... This is called Kali-yuga. So people are being misled. Actually, the human being, the form of human life, is distinct from animal life. So if we live like animals, then we are missing the chance. At the present moment, this is the position. So we are preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement strictly on the basis of this Bhagavad-gītā. In the Bhagavad-gītā, there is everything explained. So if people take to it, if people are educated, then things will change in a different way.
Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: The nature is going on like that. And we are wandering in different species of life, in different planets. But our real purpose is God-realization. That we are missing. That chance is in the human form of life. So if people are not educated to this goal of life, that is not helping the country or the society or the human beings. If we simply engage them in the activities of animal life—how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex life, and how to defend, no more—then it is simply advancement of animal civilization. But those who are thinking good for all humanity, they should note this defect, that simply giving him nice food, nice shelter, nice sex facilities and nice defense, his problem of life is not solved. He should be given enlightenment about God consciousness. And if he is educated in that way, if he, by next life, he can go back to home, back to Godhead. This education is lacking. So we are trying in our small endeavor. But if leading personalities like you of the society, they try to understand this philosophy scientifically, critically, and take it seriously, they can, there will be great benefit for the human society. The program we have got, but we are not leading personalities. You are all leading personalities. At least in England. Lord... This group, House of Lords is there. It was always there. In previous days also. They were called amātyas. All leading men of the society, they used to give advice to the king. And brāhmaṇas also. I think the knighthood means that. What is the meaning of this knighthood? Eh? Personal advisors to the king?
Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:
Lord Brockway: I would rather have people make mistakes when they had self-government than if you had a dictatorship which didn't make mistakes and imposed it's own...
Prabhupāda: No, but my proposition is that they should not commit, either the king or the elected person should not commit mistake. But if you try to educate the mass of people to become educated to elect the right person, that is very difficult. But if a king, a person, is educated nicely, that is easier. That is my point of view.
Lord Brockway: Yes. Yes, but the mass of people in poverty, the...
Prabhupāda: No, everything will be all right. Because the man on the head is perfectly, he'll manage, he'll manage. But if he's not perfect, then it is not possible. Therefore the endeavor should be made... Either call it dictator or president or king, it doesn't matter. The man on the top of the executive must be a perfect man.
Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: Because your son has come here, you may not be happier. But he happier.
Mother: Oh, you're saying this. I'm not saying this. I'm very disappointed that he is not continuing with education. I'm not sorry that... I'm happy for his happiness, wherever he is.
Prabhupāda: But what is the... What is the purpose of education?
Mother: You are a cultured man. You're educated.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mother: Did you not learn...? Who gave you the talent to translate your Vedic scriptures?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mother: Who gave you the talent, father?
Prabhupāda: No, I'm asking that what is the best part of education? So far my school, college education is concerned, that is not being used here.
Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: Yes. That...
Mother: If you couldn't, if you hadn't been educated, father, well, how would you be able to have...?
Prabhupāda: No, education is required.
Mother: Now, I, I, I don't... I am so happy that my son is happy, truthfully. But I am very distressed... And little boys, don't laugh because this is serious. Um. I am very distressed that none of these boys continue their education. What is going to happen to them when they are like you, when they're older, they have no talents?
Prabhupāda: But your educational system, in the western countries, the, you have got big, big universities. Why the university students becoming hippies?
Mother: Oh, well, there're always a certain amount becoming hippies, in America, anywhere. But we must...
Prabhupāda: No...
Mother: But we must develop...
Prabhupāda: I think the college students university students, they're all hippies.
Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: I mean to say that if the chance of education is there... In India there is no such big, big universities, facilities, but in your western countries you have got nice universities, nice teaching system. Why the result is hippie?
Mother: Oh, but you... We're talking of you. You have got the power. But people follow you because they believe in you. So you have the power to educate them. And you're not hippies, are you?
Prabhupāda: My point is that this simple, this education for eating, sleeping, mating and defending, this sort of education will not satisfy.
Mother: Well, you're educated, you see.
Prabhupāda: No, I am educated.
Mother: Yes, but how many of these are?
Prabhupāda: But I am not educated only on this platform, eating, sleeping and sex life and defense. I am educated in a different platform.
Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: So my father educated me in a different way. Therefore I have come to this stage. My father never allowed me even to drink tea.
Mother: Well, I'm disappointed in you. I came to see you because I felt that, being so cultured, you would want all your boys to have this culture and to have this, to have the best...
Revatīnandana: We've got, we've got this culture.
Mother: Oh, but you haven't, you see. You're all, you're all young boys...
Revatīnandana: No, your culture, your culture we don't have.
Mother: ...but you're not mature yet.
Revatīnandana: But the culture that he has, he's giving to us.
Mother: Yes, but you're not mature. It takes years to become mature. Hurt, pain, happiness, everything together... You find God? Yes, I've found God. We all... I feel very close to God, and I feel very happy. But I would also still wish to be educated. And fortunately, I was given the chance to have an education.
Prabhupāda: Education means to know God.
Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: Mostly. I have spoken with many educated persons. In Moscow I was talking with Professor Kotofsky. He said, "Swamiji, after finishing this body, everything is finished." But he's a big professor. Generally, even they do believe next life, they do not believe it very seriously. If we actually believe there is next life, then we must be prepared: "What kind of next life I am going to have?"
Mother: Yes, well, father...
Prabhupāda: Because there are eight million, four hundred thousand forms of life. The trees are also life, the cats and dogs, they are also life. And there are higher, intelligent persons in the higher planetary systems. They are also life. The worm in the stool, that is also life. So, calculating all of them, there are 8,400,000 species of life. So if I am going to have next life... Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change this body to another body. So our concern should be "What kind of body I am going to get next?"
Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:
Mother: But he had a false religious experience, due to the LSD.
Prabhupāda: No, I am talking generally, not of him, that everything must be, there must be division. Just like naturally we have got division. The whole object is to keep the body fit, but there is division: the head division, the arm division, the stomach division, and the leg division. So similarly, there must be four classes of men in the society: the intelligent class of men, the administrator class of men, the productive class of men, and the laborer class of men. Everything is required. But not that the intelligent class of man has to learn the business of the laborer class of men. That is not required. Just try to understand. The laborer class of men, they are required. But one who is intelligent class, he, he cannot be trained up as laborer, ordinary laborer in the factory. That is mistake. He must work according to his capacity. If he's intelligent, he must be preacher, he must be God conscious. He would educate people that "This eating, sleeping is not all. There is God. You should understand. You have got a relationship with Him. If you want to have better life next, then you must become God conscious, you must be sinless." These things are required in the society. (loud noise of jet going over). What is the use of talking?
Room Conversation with Graham Hill Former World Champion Race Car Driver -- London, August 26, 1973:
Graham Hill: Can we?
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is... There is... Even astrology, Bṛghu-saṁhitā. Astrological calculation. You can know your past life, present life, and future life. There is system. Bṛghu-saṁhitā.
Graham Hill: So by our behavior (indistinct) will determine what sort of body we will get when we return?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like if you are educating your son for future life. So according to his education, according to his qualification, his future life will be fixed up. If he is properly educated he can become a very big man. And if he is not, he may not become. So this life is preparation for the next life. So this human form of life, if we are advanced in our consciousness then we should try to get our next life going back to home, back to Godhead.
Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: That is, that is next question, that you have to accept next body, but what kind of body you'll have? That you can see, that there are so many varieties of life, body. You have to accept one of them. Just like when you were admitted into school for education. The idea was that you'll be educated, and according to your education, there are so many posts you'll have to occupy. Just like you are lawyer, he's medical man, somebody's engineer, somebody else, somebody... Varieties or field of activities. So according to the perfection of one's education, he has to accept one post like that. Similarly, next body means according to your karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). You are preparing your next Life.
Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:
Guest (1): Likes the Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he's a good man. He's good scholar also, educated.
Guest (1): He was coming but I don't know why he has not come due to this...? This last year hearing Bhāgavatam discourses he accepted he would come come. We got his letter also.
Prabhupāda: This is due to government post.
Guest (1): And he also accepted an invitation, we invited him, He said he'd also come, but this Pakistan war started.
Prabhupāda: Still there are so many respectable person came. The governor came, the high-court justices and that, the Canadian ambassador came. Many men came. And he was very humble. He sat down below.
Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:
Prabhupāda: So you are, you are a devotee. Kindly cooperate with us, and overflood Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You are educated. Your word will be accepted more than ours.
Professor: Yeah. How does one order these books?
Haṁsadūta: We have them here or...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: We just received shipment from Germany.
Professor: You stock them here?
Prabhupāda: Yes, all the books are there.
Professor: (indistinct) You have spoken to him.
Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:
Ambassador: Your Eminence, I agree, but I think the duty of the government primarily is to provide conditions in which gifted people, spiritual people like you, leaders like you, can function. More than that, if the government does, it might probably even corrupt the religious... I don't know. Like an umpire in a game, you know, or something... Provide the conditions, provide the conditions for free speech. Not like Moscow, you know, where it is...
Prabhupāda: No. That is... Just like you have got the Commerce Department. Government has got. What is the duty of the Commerce Department? The government must see that the trade enterprise, common share, or industrial enterprise, they are doing nicely, properly. The government issuing license. They have got supervision. They send sometimes, what is called, inspectors? Education. Say, for education. There is educational inspector, school inspector. They go see that the students are properly being educated in that school. Similarly, government should have expert men in the government to see that the Hindus are acting like Hindu, Muslims are acting like Muslim, and Christians are acting like Christian. The government should not be callous about religion. They may be neutral that whatever religion you profess, government has nothing to do. You do nicely. But it is the government's duty to see that you are doing nicely, you are not bluffing. That is government's duty.
Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:
Prabhupāda: Does it mean they like that some congregation of fools and rascals? Such a big professor, he does not know, he cannot understand even that there is life after death. He has to accept another body. As we are accepting different bodies. I was a child. You were a child. Then I became a boy. That is different body. Different consciousness also. A child, three-four years, he talks in a different way. A boy, ten-twelve years, he talks in a different way, and a young man, educated young man, he talks in a different way. So with the change of the body, the consciousness is changing. Is it not?
Ambassador: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Children, small children, they're just like animals. The cats and dogs, just they are playing, they're also playing like that. But he, he does not belong to that category because when he'll get..., he'll get another body in which he'll be intelligent. Another body, he'll be highly educated. Another body, he'll be doctorate. The cats and dogs, they'll have to wait to get that body. So with the body, we are changing our consciousness. So different body, different consciousness. Similarly, why not after death a different body, different consciousness? If you make progress. Yes. This is progressive. So that is confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā: tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13).
Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:
Prabhupāda: So people cannot understand. That means they are not dhīra, not even, according to Vedic conc..., not even gentlemen. One who cannot understand this simple theory, that, "After this body, as I have changed so many bodies, similarly, I shall change this body also." That's a fact. So dhīras tatra na muhyati. Dhīra, one who has got brain, one who can think, he'll not be puzzled. "Yes, he has... Death means he has changed body." Any gentle, good brain will understand. But people are so foolish now, they cannot understand. They are not educated even to understand this simple thing. This is the position of the world. Even a big professor like Kotofsky. So this is the position of our present human society.
Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:
Prabhupāda: No, no. More...
Ambassador: Most people are...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. In India, they're now being educated to eat meat. (Ambassador laughs) Otherwise, Indians, at least, Hindus...
Ambassador: It is true. That's true.
Prabhupāda: Eh? They are being educated.
Ambassador: (laughing) I belong to vegetarian family. I eat meat now.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, in Madras, I have seen...
Ambassador: Most of them...
Prabhupāda: Mostly they are vegetarian, strictly vegetarian. Actually, in Southern India, they maintain the Hindu culture. You'll find big high-court judges, they have got tilaka.
Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:
Ambassador: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes, In Vṛndāvana. We have got very, very, big, big temples now. So those temples, the Indians are callous. They are after technology. They are not coming. So how I'll manage, how I'll manage them if they are driven away? That is my problem. But the Indian boys, they are not coming. Indian educated... They are coming, but not very educated.
Ambassador: That's... I, I understand what you mean.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The educated Indian, boys, they'll accept good service. Why they come to temple?
Ambassador: I'm sorry. You are right.
Prabhupāda: That is education. They are not prepared to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They want some good service and enjoy life. That's all.
Ambassador: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: No, no. You can place there. What you want just now?
Ambassador: I just want to place it here, and that washroom.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you can wash inside.
Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:
Prabhupāda: They have no brain. The same thing, the crows. So therefore they have to be enlightened to Kṛṣṇa consciousness then they will be able to find out some big leader, nice leader for them. There are so many things. You are educated. You should try to understand our philosophy. There are so many things to be learned from our... They're not sentimentally dancers only. They've got logic, philosophy, science, everything. Otherwise how we are writing so many books? Just see, ancient word, how they are nicely, these two verses we have read. How full of meaning. Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo. Harer, pragṛṇīta karhicit, tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham (SB 1.5.10), each word has volumes of meanings. There are 18,000 verses in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And each word you'll find enlivening. Each word. It's such a nice literature. One verse contains actually sixteen words. So 18,000 multiplied by sixteen, how much?
Dr. Hauser: 18,000...
Prabhupāda: 18,000 verses multiplied by sixteen. How many words?
Dr. Hauser: 280,000. Yes.
Prabhupāda: 280,000 words and each word you'll find a new light. That is (indistinct). Each word you'll find.
Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: Future, future of the world, because the people are trained up in the bodily consciousness of life, "I am this body." So so long people will remain in bodily consciousness of life, that is animal life. That is not human life. So they have to be educated to spiritual consciousness of life, that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul." Then they'll be benefited. Otherwise, they'll degrade more and more.
Reporter (3): Yes, but what do you see happening to the actual world? Do you see any... You know, with Christianity and other religions?
Prabhupāda: Eh, what is that?
Reporter (3): You know, with Christianity and other religions, the world has...
Prabhupāda: The Christianity, if you...
Reporter (3): ...a beginning and an end.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We also believe that, that the world has a beginning, and it has an end. Anything material. Just like my body, your body. It has got a beginning from the father, mother, and again it will end. So anything material, it has beginning and end. But the, within the body, the spirit soul, the spirit soul has no beginning, no end.
Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: So when these dirty things are washed, then you become as Kṛṣṇa as you in spirit sense. So at the present moment, we are with... Covered means with upādhi. Upādhi. Just like your naked body and this body with shirt and coat. When you take away the shirt and coat, you become original body. Similarly, when you stop accepting this plastering process of body, material body, in different shapes, then you become mukta.
- sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ
- tat-paratvena nirmalam
- hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-
- sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate
- (CC Madhya 19.170)
When you begin serving Kṛṣṇa in your original spiritual body, that is called bhakti. (break) ...educated person. If you like you can learn all the things. You read our books. You have got our books?
Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: ...here is a very nice, educated man. He's very nice. But we say, "No. Because he has no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's as dangerous as if he is ordinary man." We don't give any credit. (break)
Acyutānanda: Which is more important, to go back to Godhead or spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: Well, one who is preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's already back to Godhead. (break) ...īhā yasya harer dāsye karmaṇā manasā girā. Preacher means he has engaged his body, his mind, his speeches only to glorify the Lord. That is preacher. So anybody who's engaged that business, he's jīvan-muktaḥ sa ucyate. He's liberated even in this life. (break) ...even if he's liberated. So why he should seek for liberation? He's already liberated. He's already back to Godhead. He's already with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is talking with him. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi... One who is actually preacher, engaged in Kṛṣṇa's glorification, service, he's already in Vaikuṇṭha. That is stated in Bhāgavata. Etad īśanam... It's just like Kṛṣṇa. If He comes within this material world, does it mean that he's in the material world? Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's pure devotee, he's not in the material world. In the spiritual world.
Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (3): ...and it may take time for your people to educate them, till then they are not aware they are accepting somebody.
Prabhupāda: Then they are cats and dogs. They are doing something also.
Guest (3): No, but...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Cats and dogs, they are doing some business.
Guest (3): What percentage of people today know about Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. That we do not know. But anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is, more or less, like cats and dogs. Maybe bigger dog, bigger cat. Just like amongst the dogs, there are different varieties also. So similarly he belongs to that dog, cat class.
Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:
Banker: Welfare. Payment to people who don't work.
Prabhupāda: No, everyone should work. Our Vedic philosophy is that everyone must work. But there must be division of work. Just like in your body there are different parts. The head department, the arms department, the belly department, and the legs department. These are different parts. So all these departments must work for the total benefit of the body. That is our philosophy. Nobody should sit idle. But he must work according to his capacity. Brain must work for giving direction. Hand must work for giving protection. Belly must work for supplying food, energy. And leg must work for carrying the body. So similarly the society must be divided: the brain of the society, the arms of the society, the belly of the society and the legs of the society. That will make perfection. The brain will give direction That is the brāhmaṇas. The arms will give protection. That is the kṣatriya. And the belly will give energy, food, that is vaiśya. And the legs will carry the body. That is śūdra. This is... Whole society should be divided into four divisions, the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas, the vaiśyas and the śūdras. And they should work cooperatively for the total benefit of the body. This is perfect life. Not that everyone should be brain. Then who will carry me? Just like in your bank, the manager is the brain. The secretaries and assistants are the hands, clerks. And ordinary worker, they are legs. Anywhere you go, you must find out these four divisions. Therefore the human society must be divided into four divisions. But there is no such plan. Now the plan is that everyone is being educated to learn technology, how to... In your country, especially. How to make economic development. So they have no brain.
Conversation at Airport -- October 26, 1973, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate people to understand the value of life. The modern system of education and civilization is so degraded that people have forgotten the value of life. Generally, in this material world everyone is forgetful of the value of life, but the human form of life is a chance to awaken the importance of life. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is stated, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long one is not awakened to the consciousness of self-realization, the foolish living entity, whatever he is doing is defeat for him. This defeat is going on in the lower species of life because they cannot understand what is the value of life. Their consciousness is not advanced. But even in the human form of life, the same defeat prolongs, that is not very good civilization. That is almost animal civilization. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca samānyā etat paśubhir narāṇām. If people are simply engaged in the four principles of bodily demands-eating, sleeping, mating and defending—that is visible in animal life also, so that is not very advancement of civilization. So our attempt Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate people to come to the responsibility of human life. This is our Vedic civilization. The problem of life is not the difficulties for a few years of this duration of life. The real problem of life is how to solve the repetition of birth, death, old age and disease.
Conversation at Airport -- October 26, 1973, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: So this is our Vedic civilization, how to conquer over birth, death, old age and disease. But at the modern time there is no such information, neither anybody is interested. Even big, big professors, they do not know what is there after life. They do not believe even that there is life after death. So this is a blind civilization going on. We are trying our bit to educate them that the aim of life, especially in the human form of life, is different from the bodily necessities of life: eating, sleeping, mating and defending. In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye: (BG 7.3) "Out of many millions of persons, one may attempt to become successful in his life." Siddhaye, siddhi. This is siddhi, how to conquer over birth, death, old age and disease. And manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye. The modern civilized man is so dull, he does not know what is siddhi. They think that "If I get some money and one bungalow and one car, that is siddhi." That is not siddhi. You can get a few years a very nice bungalow, a car, nice family. But any moment this arrangement will be finished and you have to accept another body. That you do not know. And neither they do care to know it. So they have become so dull-headed, although they are very much proud of education, advancement of civilization. But we are protesting. We are protesting. I am not protesting. Kṛṣṇa is protesting.
Conversation at Airport -- October 26, 1973, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: These rascals, lowest of the mankind and always engaged in sinful activities, such persons do not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "No. There are so many educated MA, PhD's." Kṛṣṇa says, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. "Apparently they are very educated, but their real knowledge is taken away by māyā." Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. This atheistic civilization is very dangerous. People are suffering for this reason. But they are not very serious. Therefore they have been addressed by Kṛṣṇa as mūḍhāḥ, rascals. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ. So we are trying a little bit to make these mūḍhas, mūḍha civilization, to come into light of spiritual life. That is our humble attempt. But it is already said, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu: (BG 7.3) "Out of many millions of persons, they can take to it." Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye. But that does not mean we shall stop. Just like in our school, college days, Sir Asutosh Mukherjee started some higher study, post-graduate study classes in the university. The student was one or two, but still, the class was maintained at the cost of many thousands of rupees, not considering that there are only one student or two students. Similarly this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement must go on. It doesn't matter, the foolish people, they do not understand it or do not come to it. We have to make our propaganda. Thank you very much. Any question, we can answer.
Conversation at Airport -- October 26, 1973, Bombay:
Guest (1) (Indian man): In Delhi we have got quite a big number of good life members and helpful people.
Prabhupāda: Yes, there are, certainly. India is born Kṛṣṇa conscious, but by artificial means... Amongst the mass of people the Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there, but amongst the so-called educated, advanced, they are trying to forget. This is the difficulty.
Guest (1): Physical life has become so difficult...
Prabhupāda: It must be difficult. It must be difficult, because the so-called advancement has not helped the people. In our childhood we purchased ghee one rupee, first-class. Now it is not available. And this is advancement of civilization.
Guest (1): The population has increased so much.
Prabhupāda: No, no, this is not the question, population. Population was... Formerly one man used to beget one hundred children. From Mahābhārata we understand that Dhṛtarāṣṭra, his name is mentioned because he was king. That means at that time people were able to beget one hundred children. And who is begetting one hundred children now? One, two, three, four, that's all. How the population can be increased now? It is all bogus propaganda.
Room Conversation -- November 4, 1973, Delhi:
Prabhupāda: So he supposed.... I went to preach in the Western countries. Did they know Sanskrit? Then how they have become Vaiṣṇavas? It is a training, it is a training. It doesn't matter whether you know Sanskrit or not Sanskrit. But some rascals inquire, "Do you know Sanskrit, otherwise you cannot become..."
Guest: It is good to learn as many languages as you can, but if not that doesn't matter anything.
Prabhupāda: So far I am concerned, although people say I am Sanskrit scholar, but we are not educated as Sanskrit scholar. Whatever Sanskrit we have learned from this book only. A Sanskrit scholar is different, he learns grammar 14 years.
Guest: A waste of time, a waste of life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then other side, he takes a whole time, you see?
Guest: (indistinct) greatest Romanian poet and he studies Sanskrit and (indistinct) he's worshiped like Shakespeare in Romania. And (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: In Germany there are many Sanskrit scholars.
Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are saying that "We are beginning to learn more and more..."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That means that you are fool. While you are in the process of learning, that means you are fool. Say directly that we are fool. That is gentlemanliness. You do not know; still, you pose, "I am, we are scholar, we are scientist. Give us Nobel Prize." You see. This is going on. We don't want Nobel Prize. We are giving the topmost knowledge. We don't hanker after Nobel Prize. But they give false knowledge and hanker after Nobel Prize. Just see. Their real aim is how to get the Nobel Prize by cheating. That is their real aim. How an educated man, learned man will cheat? So therefore my Guru Mahārāja used to say that "This modern human society, or always, it is a society of the cheaters and the cheated." Somebody is cheating and somebody's cheated, and they have combined together to make a so-called civilization.
Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:
Devotee (2): Before we were saying that we were both fools. Is that the way to attract the scientists?
Prabhupāda: No, no. That was argument. We are not fools; the scientist is fool. (devotees laugh) We are educated.
Devotee (2): But how we can get them to come, to take prasādam?
Prabhupāda: That... Yes, give them nice prasādam, they'll come. If one scientist can be captured, many others can be captured. (laughter)
Yaśomatīnandana: By saying that "We have got free food, come and dine with us."
Devotee (2): But first we give them prasādam and then they come, or first they come and then we give them prasādam?
Prabhupāda: Yes, just like that Dr. Wolfe came also. So gradually they'll come, because they're...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they're more interested in seeing the molecules than in taking prasādam.
Prabhupāda: No...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is their (indistinct).
Devotee (2): So we have to trick them to take prasādam.
Prabhupāda: They will (indistinct) as students not to see molecules, but to see how palatable dishes are there. (laughter)
Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:
Hṛdayānanda: But if I say that... If I, I'm originally in the spiritual world, but even the potential to fall down is an imperfection in the creation.
Prabhupāda: No, potential does not fall down. Just like a child has got the potency to pass the M.A. examination. So he has to be educated. If you don't educate him, he'll remain a foolish child. So we are educating to develop that potentiality.
- nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-prema sādhya kabhu naya
- śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya
- (Cc. madhya 22.107)
They, that potentiality is eternal. God is eternal. We are eternal. Our relationship, eternal. Everything is eternal. But because we are small, minute fragments, sometimes we fall down.
Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:
Karandhara: Well, on the other hand, they say what you can't say you...
Prabhupāda: No, I can't say? Why I cannot say? I am saying, that this man is richer than this man. This man is richer than this man. You go on, go on, go on, studying. But if you cannot study, you cannot approach, that is your inefficiency. But there is existing actually. This man is greater than this man, this man is greater than... That's all. But who is that highest educated... That you do not see. That does not mean He is not existing. There must be, because the step is going on. How can you deny this?
Bali Mardana: We cannot see, but someone else can see.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: Kṛṣṇa says He's not manifest to the foolish.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He is... You may not have seen something, but I have seen.
Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is foolishness. Just like a child is playing whole day, and if you ask, "Go to school," "I don't care for future life." It is, it is just like that. It is just like that. How the guardians can tolerate that, that this rascal is going to be a fool-number-one if he's not educated? So we are guardians. We are representatives of Kṛṣṇa. We cannot see this. The rascal may say like that, but we cannot tolerate this. This is our proposition. We must see that things are going on nicely, according to the plan of God. That is our duty. The rascal may say like that. But we cannot stop there. So this is a serious movement, and you should take very seriously from all angles of vision. (pause) Just like these Africans, they stopped my entrance. These rascals are thinking that Africa belongs to them. It is God's property. These usurpers, these rogues and thieves, a few Africans, they are thinking, "It is our property." Huge state, huge land, huge food products can be produced there and utilized for the whole human society. But they are thinking, "It is my property.
Room Conversation with Latin Professor -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: So our method is easy. Instead of intellectual gymnastic, we take it very easily. And that acts. Now, so far our Society is concerned, we accept Kṛṣṇa as God. We're preaching Kṛṣṇa as God. So we have no difficulty. It is acting practically. So we... I may be Indian, Hindu, I may accept Kṛṣṇa as God. Maybe superstition, you may say. But why these European, Americans, Africans, they are accepting? And within very short time. Even Christian priests, they are astonished that "These boys, our boys, they did not care for God, never came to church, never inquired about God. Now they are mad after God?" They have not become mad. They are quite sane, educated. But why they are accepting Kṛṣṇa as God? Ask any one of them, they'll give explanation. And how it has become possible? Because they have accepted the method. So our guru's business is to teach him the method. Then he will understand everything. So far vegetable-eating is concerned, it is actually very scientific to eat vegetables. I think some German doctor proved it, that our teeth are meant for eating vegetables. So as devotee of Kṛṣṇa, we are not after accepting a vegetarian and rejecting a nonvegetarian. That is not our criterion.
Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: But he has got so many difficulties because he's diseased rascal. So he has to be treated. But his only fault is that he doesn't want to be treated. He's a diseased person, but he doesn't want to be treated. When he's treated, he'll understand. But he doesn't agree to be treated. That is his fault. A tuberculous patient, he doesn't want to be treated, but if he's treated, he can be brought into healthy state. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is treating all these rascals and fools because all of them are born rascals. This is our judgement. Not... śāstra's judgement. Abodha-jāta. Jāta means born. Born rascals. Everyone is a born rascal unless he's Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is our... Our propaganda should be like that. We can call anyone rascal and fool if he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious. So what is the value of rascals and fools? He may say something. He may say something. Just like a madman. He may speak so many things. But who values his word? Everyone knows that he... A child, he speaks so many things. Who cares for it? Similarly we must know, anyone who's not Kṛṣṇa, he's a madman. He's empowered by this illusory energy. He talks all nonsense. So ours should be that "If you want to understand, then you come to this position. Then you'll understand. You must be educated." Your belief and not belief or acceptance, who cares for them? Now, this sky is there. Everyone has seen.
Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Is it, is it also not the mercy of Kṛṣṇa that He has descended to incarnate(?) and...
Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore guru is called the, Kṛṣṇa's mercy-incarnation. Kṛṣṇa's mercy-incarnation is guru. Guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). Kṛṣṇa is so merciful, He's trying to educate from within, and outside He sends His representative to teach. So He's trying to bring all these living entities back to home, back to Godhead. Two ways, from inside, and outside. His propaganda is going on. His propaganda is going on.
Govardhana: You are just like the reservoir of mercy, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: No mercy reservoir is Kṛṣṇa, but we are servant of Kṛṣṇa. We have to abide by his orders. That's all. Real mercy is Kṛṣṇa's. (break)
Prajāpati: ...in the Bible, there's a story of how some cities named Sodom and Gomorraḥ became so sinful that the Lord wanted to destroy those cities and everyone in them. Will this be happening again sometime, cities become so sinful, they will be just destroyed?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Destruction means sinful. If you become sinful, your body will be destroyed. You'll die out of some disease. Sinful means destruction.
Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: It was sung by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura long ago. Gṛhe vā banete ṭhāke. Either you live in the forest or in the city, opulent city, the business is gaurāṅga bole rākhe: always thinking of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Narottama māge tarsan.(?) Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, "I want their association, who is a devotee of Lord Gaurāṅga." It doesn't matter whether he lives in the forest or in the opulent city. It doesn't matter. He must be devotee. (break) Household life or in city life we should not be extravagant, unnecessarily eating, unnecessarily enjoying. No, that is not the... One man's food, another man's poison. We must know this philosophy. (break) ...and even we..., my health is not always going on nicely. Still, why I am trying? That is my ambition. I want to begin one revolution. Their godless civilization..., against godless civilization. That is my ambition. The America will be the best person to be educated in this line and to lead, to become the leaders. They're already leader, but they must be real leader now, so that the whole world may be happy. That I can give direction. If the topmost American gentlemen come to me, I can give them direction how they can become the world leader. Actual leader. Actual leader, not bogus leader. Because God has favored them, so many things. And this movement has been started from America. I started this movement from New York. So it should be taken very seriously by the government.
Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: So why don't you take it seriously, you American boys?
Prajāpati: Also in the Constitution, Śrīla Prabhupāda, there is a thing called separation of church and state, that they would have...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is all right. We want to educate, we don't want to take part in administration. But the administration should be under our guidance; they should take advice from us, how to do it. That is required. We are not going to be president. We are satisfied in our humble temple.
Karandhara: According to traditional American values, though, the government should not take instruction from the church.
Prabhupāda: That is their... But... Church means... Because they've seen church is useless.
Karandhara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Now here is scientific church. They refuse to take advice from the church because at the present moment church is a bogus thing. So what is the use of taking advice from them?
Hṛdayānanda: That was actually... That was actually the reason they made that separation.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: They must know what is God, how to trust Him, why we shall trust God, what is the benefit. These things should be known, properly educated.
Hṛdayānanda: Jaya, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: And we have got the science. We are not speaking blindly or, what is called, sentimentally. (japa) (break)
Prajāpati: ...movement for the church today, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is called the ecumenical movement. Ecumenical movement means all the different divergent groups are trying to get together to understand..., you know, make a common ground. Now we have the perfect platform...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:
Yaśomatīnandana: Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And Bombay is the best center.
Yaśomatīnandana: I'm being very enthused when you say these things to...
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is great field to conquer, and you are educated and intelligent, capable. You have got qualification, you can do this very good work.
Yaśomatīnandana: We think that it may be impractical to go in the politics or like that. But then when you say so firmly, all the whole..., immediately our eyes get open, you see? "Yes, actually, this is possible."
Prabhupāda: Why not possible?
Yaśomatīnandana: What is impossible for a Kṛṣṇa's devotee?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yaśomatīnandana: Kṛṣṇa is the supreme controller.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That conviction you must have. If you are sincere to Kṛṣṇa, if you are actually serving Kṛṣṇa, where is impossible to you? Where is impossible? There's nothing impossible.
Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:
Yaśomatīnandana: Yes. In other words, to tell the public that "You should elect God-conscious leaders to have a better society."
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is our propaganda, that "This is the standard of leadership. So if you elect first-class leader, then your government will be first-class. But if you elect some rogues and thieves, drunkards, then how you can expect good government?" This is natural. After all, democracy means the public elect. The public does not know how to distinguish the rogues and thieves. Therefore the rogues and thieves take the advantage of it and, somehow or other, and take vote and sit on the presidential chair. That is difficulty. Just like our propaganda is... We are not making any propaganda in the beginning, that "Stop this cow slaughter." We are educating people, "Don't eat meat." If people become educated, automatically the slaughterhouse will be closed. This is our propaganda. "Don't drink." So if people give up drinking, automatically the drinking business will be closed.
Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prajāpati: You have given us this instruction, Śrīla Prabhupāda, to confront these leaders. We understand that this is your very much wish and we shall do everything we can to try to fulfill your desire.
Prabhupāda: Yes, do it. Do it.
Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (Prabhupāda gets in the car)
Prabhupāda: If you can educate the people. "Don't vote for the rascals. Just try to understand who is the real man, who is the real leader."
Hṛdayānanda: So political program is very important.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If public is educated to select right type of leader, then automatically... And it is very easy thing that "Leader must be faithful. A leader must know what is God and how to trust in Him. And he must be free from all sinful activities. The pillars of sinful activities are these." This is our propaganda. (end)
Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Therefore we have to start this movement seriously, not to take that. You cannot change it. Then you become demons. Therefore I am warning you that before they, these rascals change, you take the advantage of it, that "You cannot change. Then you become demons, you (are) animals. If you withdraw your trust from God, then you are animals. So we are not going to be governed by the animals." That should be the people's voice. Educate people to become Kṛṣṇa conscious and they will yell, "No, we are not going to be governed by the animals. We want real men." That should be your demand. Therefore I am warning you, that before they do that, you become strong, so that they cannot do it. Rather, they may understand, "Yes, what we are speaking is all right." That is preaching.
Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: So he was asking. Very intelligent boy, he was asking, "What is this? What is...?" So I also explained, "This man is going to marry." So in this way, after, "Father, you were married?" He asked me. So this nonsense question is there. He does not know, "Without marriage, how I am come into existence?" So these questions are like that, childish questions. It has no meaning. (break) ...the Vedic injunctions is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). One must approach guru. Guru means heavy, who knows perfectly. You must go there to learn. And actually it is happening. Why the children are sent to school? When he becomes educated, the same eyes, same hands, same legs, same body, but he becomes educated. What is the different between educated and not educated? Because he has heard from authorities. That's all. This is education. Without going to school, he is not considered to be educated. Why? Because he did not hear from the authorities. Therefore he is uneducated. Let him learn everything. He has got the eyes. He has got the senses. Why he is sent to school? Why? Tell me, why? He has got the eyes. Why he is sent to school for education?
Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Because his eyes have no value without hearing from the authority. These are the general psychology. He has got eyes. Let him be educated at home. Why he is sent to school? Let him see everything. How these rascals say like that, I am surprised. "I cannot see in my eyes." You cannot see in your eyes what was the length and breadth of your body in the mother's womb. But does it mean that you did not exist in the mother's womb? You cannot see who is your father. How do you believe that this is my father? Is that depending on your eyes? Then what is the value of your eyes? Why these rascals say that "I do not see." These things prove that they are rascals.
Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: This Subhash Chandra Bose. And he organized the INA, Indian National Army. So when this Indian National Army was organized and the Britishers... They were great politicians. They saw, "Now the army is going to national movement. We cannot be." Then they left. Because it was not possible. They were maintaining British Empire with Indian money, Indian men. You see? They did not conquer by their British soldiers all round the Far East, Burma and the Mesopotamia, and the Egypt. That was Indian army, the Sikh soldiers and the Gurkha soldiers, and Indian money. On the pretext that "For Indian protection, we are maintaining this army." Actually, they were expanding their empire. Africa, Burma. And when they saw that "India is lost," voluntarily they liquidated all others. Went back... Back to home, back to Godhead. (devotees laugh) So in politics this is nonsense, non-violence. It is nonsense, cowardism. In politics in sweet words you cannot get. There must be fight, arms. That is army. "If you don't agree, then fist." That is politics. There must be violence. Otherwise you cannot control. When there is educated good men, then you can argue. But when people are ruffians, there is no question of good... Argumentum vaculum, I told you the other day... (break) ...in the beginning of creation, the fight between the demons and the demigods, devāsura-yuddha. That is always there. In the European history, without revolution, no order changes. Even the Russian Revolution was there. French revolution was there. In England, Cromwell? Cromwell? Cromwell Revolution?
Nara-nārāyaṇa: Yes.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Morning Walk -- January 10, 1974, Los Angeles:
Yaśomatīnandana: She is writer, I think.
Prabhupāda: Yes. She is very educated. Now, her husband made very great attempt for publishing book, but there is no sufficient customer. Now the press is going to be sold, and nobody customer. That is letter-setting press. Now it is obsolete. So they were perplexed. She wanted that I shall purchase. And what shall I do with this press? Letter setting is now abolished. That is not good job now. There must be litho press or, what is called, offset. Yes.
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if... Since Kṛṣṇa is the power that gives the demigods the ability to render everything, then why is it recommended in the Nectar of Devotion that a Vaiṣṇava should worship Gaṇapati?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa worship, everyone. Just like we worship also ordinary man if it gives us facility to worship Kṛṣṇa. We go to somebody and worship him, flatter him, because he will give some money, and it will be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. The man is not worshipable, but he will help us to worship Kṛṣṇa. Thereby he will be helped and we will be also helped, and Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied. Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied that "My devotee has brought some money from this rascal. All right." That is... (laughter) So Gaṇapati is also devotee. So Gaṇapati, it is not required, but sometimes we do. Just like gopīs, they worshiped Goddess Durgā, Kātyāyanī. They did not require, but the social system is that. But they asked that Mother Kātyāyanī, give us the opportunity to have Kṛṣṇa as our husband." The aim is Kṛṣṇa. Generally, they go to worship Devī Durgā for asking material benefit. Dhanaṁ dehi rūpaṁ dehi yaśo dehi, the things which we want in material... But the gopīs, they do not go for any material things. For Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, we can go to any demigod. Why Gaṇapati? Everyone. But our prayer should be, "Please give us Kṛṣṇa." Then it is correct.
Morning Walk -- January 12, 1974, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Even prayers are allowed, unless there is scientific knowledge of God, that will not help. The prayer's still going on in the churches, but what improvement? They have become hackneyed. It requires training.
Prajāpati: Then our political campaign should be educating the people in general as much as possible in the principles of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is taking a chance to educate people.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We may not be successful in the beginning, but it is a good way of preaching, exposing to the general mass.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Morning Walk -- January 12, 1974, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: They agree. Then automatically, slaughterhouse will be closed. If there is no customer for meat, then slaughterhouse will be closed. Just like Gandhi started this movement, non-cooperation, "Don't cooperate with the British government." That was his... Because the Britishers were ruling India with the cooperation of the Indians. Otherwise, how they could rule? The soldiers were Indian, the police were Indian, the secretariat, office, clerks, they were Indians—all Indians. But they manufactured in such a way that they were cooperating. So Gandhi took the route that "You non-cooperate; then the Britishers will automatically go away." That was his movement. Similarly, if we educate public that "You must find out a leader who is free from these sinful activities. Then you will be happy. And you also give up. Otherwise, how you will be able to select such a leader?" This should be our real propaganda. Otherwise they will think that "They're against our real joyful life. So these men are useless." You have to explain that "If these things, sinful activities, you prolong, then you cannot become happy."
Morning Walk -- January 12, 1974, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: That I know. That I know, that I am... Therefore we are, internally, we are not after the office; we are after educating people. Yes. Even if you go to office, you cannot do. Even if give manifesto, that you will stop slaughterhouse, and you are elected a senator, you cannot stop. Because they are majority there. If you say they will laugh, "What this nonsense saying?" So even if you give any manifesto, you will not be able to carry out it, because their majority is there. Simply you can general way educate them. Or you can give what is there. There is no harm.
Umāpati: But there are many people in this country that would like to see prayer put back in schools. Even though they don't understand prayer, at least they like the idea. They are sentimentally attached to it. It was one idea that if we at least say that we would try to get prayer put back in schools...
Prabhupāda: But prayer, without these things, background, there is no value of prayer.
Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: He was educated of his spiritual life in India. Twelve years here. Twelve years he was. And he lived in Jagannātha temple.
Dr. Patel: Yesterday I found out a very good article. I have preserved it for you. I have forgot to bring it. I'll bring it in the afternoon from Journal, how where he stayed and how he was in India in Himalayas. Some man has made a research. Some Russian scholar has made a research for forty years, in various places and found out from various libraries the all, the old records.
Prabhupāda: There was once a historian report that after crucification he did not die. He...
Dr. Patel: He was in samādhi.
Prabhupāda: He came in India and...
Dr. Patel: Lived somewhere in Kashmir. That is what I have in article. He lived for a very long time after crucifixion. In crucifixion he went in great samādhi, and when the cross was brought down, he came out of samādhi after three days. That is the resurrection.
Prabhupāda: He was... Yes.
Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Keno āpnāra?
Guest (3): (Hindi) (break)
Prabhupāda: Ācchā. (break) ...that is our slogan. Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi (SB 1.1.1). Janmādyasya yataḥ. We explain this truth. the truth is that from whom everything comes. Janmādyasya yataḥ. So He's a person or imperson? No, abhijñaḥ svarāṭ. Tene brahma hṛdā ya ādi-kavaye muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ.
Devotee: Kṛṣṇa says, "There's no truth superior to Me."
Prabhupāda: Yes, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). The truth is there. They do not know. Half-educated. This is very good, "Truth is the..." We also say, but they do not know what is that truth.
Satsvarūpa: They leave the question hanging, that "No man may actually know what it is." (end)
Morning Walk -- February 20, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: And, and the result of sukṛti, piety, is janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrī (SB 1.8.26). Janma, to take birth, to take birth in nice family. And aiśvarya, riches. And... Janmaiśvarya-śruta, education, and śrī, beauty. All these four things are in America. There every boy, every girl is nicely educated, qualified, artist.
Dr. Patel: That last hundred years' generation of America, very honest people.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes.
Dr. Patel: Extremely honest and extremely righteous. That is why the generation is good. This last hundred years...
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Morning Walk -- March 7, 1974, Mayapura:
Prabhupāda: There is no question of minority. Support the right person. Kṛṣṇa supported Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira in place of Duryodhana. So formerly it was monarchy. That is perfect politics. This democracy is useless. It has proved. One man, the king, he should be properly educated how to rule, what is the aim of ruling, how the people will be, I mean to say, culturally elevated, what is that culture. (break) There was a consulting board of learned brāhmaṇas and saintly persons. They would advise the monarch how to rule.
Jayapatākā: This is... This is the land here.
Prabhupāda: This is the land?
Jayapatākā: Yeah, we're walking over it. We're going through... (break)
Śyāmasundara: Elizabeth, in England, she's got a..., what she calls a "think-tank" or a board of advisors who meet and advise her on different policies.
Prabhupāda: Privy council.
Morning Walk -- March 9, 1974, Mayapura:
Prabhupāda: That is very good proposal.
Guest (5): And I am a...
Prabhupāda: How far you are educated?
Guest (5):. As long as I will live, I will broom and clean the temple.
Prabhupāda: Very good. That's all right. You go on doing that.
Guest (5): OK. And then I will submit my resignation.
Prabhupāda: That is up to you. I cannot say.
Guest (5): Yes. And my parents are sufficient enough. They have enough land...
Prabhupāda: Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārjanādau **. Tan-mandira-mārjanādau. That is also great service. If you guide other people, and you do yourself, just to keep the temple very neat and clean, it will be a very, very, great service.
Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are against religion. But actually, if we show that we are producing, we are managing, we are educating, then we can counteract the communist tendency. But they are seeing that, that escaping. They say, "They escape responsibility of worldly life and they're indulging in some religious..." That is the tendency. All... Everywhere the government is complaining like that. Therefore they do not want to increase the number of temples, increase the number of devotees. They do not want. Because they say, "These are a class of idle men. They cannot do anything, and they take to this religious life." That is the tendency. They are feeling like that. But if you show that you are actually doing something ideal, then they will appreciate. Make a small unit of community and show ideal life, not idle life. Ideal life. Then this mis... That... Now in Bombay, they have refused. Because they are under the impression that "They, these Europeans have come here under some sentiment, and what is the use?" They have taken some plea and rejected our... (break) ...is there. As we are making counterpropaganda against māyā, the māyā is also very strong. She will also make propaganda against you, very strong.
Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:
Hṛdayānanda: Those who cannot preach.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Those who are less educated, not very much expert in preaching, they must be acting as kṣatriya or vaiśya, or as śūdra.
Hṛdayānanda: And sometimes...
Prabhupāda: Not he's śūdra. Always remember that. But he has to act to fulfill the, fill up the gap. Proxy.
Hṛdayānanda: So we should encourage people, young people, young students to come to our college.
Prabhupāda: They'll automatically come if you are ideal. Because they are being forced to poverty. So when there is a question of poverty, they'll come.
Morning Walk -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: So that, that is natural. If you give good instruction to a rascal, he'll be angry. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopayati na śamayati (?). Mūrkha, a rascal, if you give him good instruction... But give him practical. "Come here. Sit down. Take prasādam. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And help me by doing this." In this way you have to... Just like a child. Child does not want to go to school, but some, by... Find out some means so that he'll be induced. That is intelligence. He'll be angry, naturally. He's a rascal. He'll be angry. That is not unnatural. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopayati na śamayati (?). Just like a snake. You feed the snake with milk. It will increase the poison. That's all. Practically attract. Practically attract. That is the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement will practically attract the people. If the world affairs are adjusted according to our Kṛṣṇa conscious plan, there will be no difficulty for all the nations, all the countries. They will be happy. So we have to educate people gradually. And by our example, living example, we'll have to attract.
Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: These are the symptoms of mahātmās. So we have to make position that bhajana is so important. And Bhagavad-gītā is meant for all solution of material problems, but we are not accepting it. So why not try to follow the principles of Bhagavad-gītā. And the most easiest process, satataṁ kīrtayanto mām (BG 9.14), always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. "So you please come with us. We are foreigners, but we know Kṛṣṇa is not for this or that. Therefore we have taken seriously this, here. So why, Indians, you are lacking here? This is... You come forward. You are educated youths, gentlemen. You take your culture. We have taken our cul..., your culture. It is not 'your-our,' but you think that it is your culture. But Kṛṣṇa is neither for Indian or for you. He's for everyone. So therefore we have taken to Kṛṣṇa. So why not try this, that it is stated in the..., that kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51). Simply by kṛṣṇa-kīrtana, one becomes free from all contamination. So why not join with us? What is the wrong there? It is stated in your śāstra. And we have adopted it. And we are feeling actually better. So why you are so much callous, you educated youths, gentlemen?" This has to made propaganda. And let them come. At least, Sunday morning. And... It is roaming like this?
Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Nobody is taking seriously, Indian. So many years we are here. How many Indian-educated youths are coming? They are not interested.
Guest: Because in the court of law you require a person who should be Indian citizen, and he should have some...
Prabhupāda: Then that... No, Indian citizen we have got. Just like here. He is Indian man. Or to the... But in proportion, they are not even one percent. That is the difficulty. And if the government likes that if they make it without... Just like I was refused entrance in Africa, Nairobi. So if the government says that... There, they understand that these Americans making this satyagrama (?), or as you have proposed, then immediately, within twenty-four hours, they will be deported. Then I do not know who will manage my, so many establishment. Therefore if the Hindus and the Vaiṣṇavas, they combine together that "This is an important proposal," they go to the court, they give their signature, they come here, that will be nice. It may be long time. That doesn't matter. But that will be solid thing. And if the government becomes, "Oh, these Americans are making this propaganda," at any moment they can ask that "Within twenty-four hours you get out."
Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: What is that liberty? Therefore we have to educate public that the...
Guest: And another thing, regarding the propaganda, as you said rightfully, that that propaganda you have to make in the city and not in the Juhu area. Because here...
Prabhupāda: No, no, in the city. I have told you. A big, big hall.
Guest: Yes. A big halls or a pandal as we had held two years back.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Guest: I don't know how you have got the sanction.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes.
Guest: And there the people can come in the thousands and...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that I have already said.
Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: ...I am a fool. If I go with a challenging spirit, what is the meaning of my challenging? I am a fool.
Dr. Patel: That is how we people are educated
Prabhupāda: Yes. But the westerners are not that. (break) ...different thing. They never say anything against me. Whatever I say, they accept. We have got so many western men.
Dr. Patel: This education has created this, this sort of morose...,
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: ...in the educational system...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Morning Walk -- March 25, 1974, Bombay:
Guest (1): No, but I have read in Manu-smṛti that all these śūdras also, after the age of forty years, they come to the stage of brāhmaṇas. I don't know how.
Prabhupāda: No, no. There is no bar. One may be... One may be uneducated now. He can be educated.
Dr. Patel: Svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya, he becomes a brāhmaṇa.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Dr. Patel: Svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya, he becomes a brāhmaṇa. After forty years of age.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya...
Dr. Patel: Because he, by his own action, becomes brāhmaṇa because he does the service of the Lord.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Anyone who is engaged in the arcanā of the Supreme, he's neither of these: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. He is Brahman, he has realized Brahman.
Morning Walk -- March 26, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: ...one is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he cannot have any good qualities. And if one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, all the good qualities will automatically come out. So therefore this is the only treatment, to educate people how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then everything will be settled up. One remedy.
Guest (1): For all disease.
Prabhupāda: All disease. That is also... Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena sevate, sa guṇān samatītyaitān... (BG 14.26). These varieties of different qualities due to these material modes of nature, but if you transcend... Just like if you remain in the water, there are so many symptoms of danger. You come out of the water; there is no danger. You cannot expect, even if you have got the best boat, you cannot expect that you are safe in the water. But if you remain one inch above the water, then there is no danger. So this devotional service is like that. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). As soon one is fully engaged in devotional service, then he's above this material atmosphere. (end)
Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:
Dr. Patel: They fall down from their own position.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It doesn't matter whether a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, or vaiśya, śūdra. If you are conscious that "I have to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead according to my capacity of work," then he'll not fall down. He'll not fall down. (break) ...fall down from the position, then it is dead society. It is not living society. At the present moment. Yes. If you don't find actual brāhmaṇa, don't find actual kṣatriya, don't find actual vaiśya, so all śūdras. And there is no guide. Therefore chaotic condition. (break) ...ship without rudder? What is called? Yes. They do not know what is the aim of life. Ask any leader. The leader, he says, "No, this aim of life is to drink and enjoy. That's all." This is going on. After diplomacy, politics, when they are tired, they go to the hotel or club and enjoy and drink. That's all. This is their aim of life. (break) ...countries there are even shops, they indulge all these things, topless, bottomless, like that. Because that is the only solace to this materialistic life. There is no other. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). That is their... They have no other pleasure except that sex life. They have no information that there is another pleasure. That, they, they are not educated. So they must come to the sex life only.
Morning Walk -- April 2, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: That is also not good. But these people, they are svadeśi, for country, but I know them very well.
Dr. Patel: No, he was right up to the end very conscious about this. Because of his Oxfordian education. I think he was in eternal hell, one of these things.(?) (break)
Prabhupāda: England. He was educated in England, but who can become...
Dr. Patel: Absolutely. It was a miracle, the greatest miracle.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was... From very beginning of his birth, he is Englishman.
Dr. Patel: He was not allowed to speak Bengali by his parents.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Because in those days... (break)
Dr. Patel: We are forgetting Sanskrit very quickly.
Prabhupāda: No, no, those who are interested...
Dr. Patel: Now the schools, they don't teach as in our times. (break)
Prabhupāda: As soon as the kṣatriyas were negligent, immediately the brāhmaṇas should take step. That was the system. (break) ...offer advice to the kṣatriyas according to śāstra, and kṣatriyas would execute, and the vaiśyas would care for supply. And the śūdras, serving everyone. That's all. This is the system. (break) So he used to manufacture. To manufacture means śūdra. (end)
Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:
Mahāṁsa: This is also a siddhi, that they can invent a plane...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. To some extent. By material arrangement... The yogis can do still more. Without any material machine, they can float. They can walk on the water, becomes light. (break) ...man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). This is the process. (break) ...colleges, the students are being educated that there is no God. And they expect good behavior from them. And when they set fire in the bus, that is... "The students are so dangerous now." But you have made them dangerous. The educational system. They are protesting against the existence of God. (break) ...so-called swamis. And they are also accelerating, "yes, no more. There is no God. Why you are searching God anywhere? There are so many gods loitering in the street. They are God." That is the statement of Vivekananda. "Why you are finding out, trying to find out God elsewhere. These are Gods." (break) ...if required, one may come, very easily, one may take some time. But we should go on preaching.
Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: (break) ...social divisions. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). The other varṇas, they would give simply to the brāhmaṇas charity. And the brāhmaṇas were so advanced that simply by their blessing, they will get all benefit. So there must be a class of men who can actually benefit simply by blessing and the society must maintain them. This is real society. And everyone is śūdra, engaged in technology—then what benefit you will get? Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. There must be a brahminical class, a kṣatriya class, a vaiśya class, a śūdra class. Not that all śūdras. Then what will be going on? That is the condition. Everyone is being educated as śūdra. Then what benefit you will get? That is the defect. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Therefore there must be a brahminical class.
Morning Walk -- April 18, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: ...advised and all the ācāryas advised, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's advised. Why should we go somewhere else? Take shelter of His lotus feet. That's all. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). This is right conclusion. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). (break) Mahātmā, immediately by surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. Immediately. (break) A child, if he is informed, "God is everywhere," he will never understand what is God. He knows that God is there, that this God consciousness is there. So what is the use of educating him, "Oh, God is everywhere. You don't require to go to temple?" This is nonsense. It is kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. He must know, "Here is God." He goes there, offer respect. All the children come. (break) ...a man, military man like Arjuna.
Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:
Prabhupāda: So one must be intelligent enough to see God. Now, the bird I do not see, but I am hearing the sound. So one must know there is a nice bird. Because the varṇāśrama-dharma is lacking, nobody is being educated as a brāhmaṇa. They have lost all knowledge. Suppose in the society there is nobody educated as engineer; you don't find any engineers. So who will understand this? Unless one becomes brahminical qualified, they cannot understand. Therefore a class of men must be there, trained up as brāhmaṇa. Then the understanding of God consciousness will be there. Otherwise finished. So now this rascal civilization, they are simply creating śūdras. What they will understand? Simply śūdras. Factories and this, for technology. And because they are getting money, they are thinking, "Now we have got everything." On the money standard. Actually they have no knowledge. Just like we find a expert electrician and we pay him sufficiently, say hundred dollars, but does it mean that he has knowledge? He is expert in that śūdra's work, that's all. That does not mean, because he has got money, he has got all knowledge. But people accept, "Oh, he has money. His life is successful. He has got all knowledge." That's all.
Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:
Prabhupāda: We are making all over India members with these English books. Why do they not say, "No, no, no, I cannot accept English book." Why they are accepting English books? It is my fault that I have written in English or it is their fault? Why they are accepting? Everywhere we are making life members but why do they accept these English books? They could have refused, "No, no, no, I cannot accept English book." Why they are accepting? I know one boy. He is about forty-two years. But he was practically my first student. He is a very big scholar in Sanskrit. But because he does not know English, he is useless. He could not make any, prosper in any way. He is taken as half-educated. He was appointed as vice-chancellor of the Darbhana(?) Sanskrit University. Maybe it is only name. Anyway, now his teaching period is over. Now he is useless. He does not get any service. Although he is a very big Sanskrit scholar. The only defect, that he does not know English—he does not get any responsible position.
Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:
Prabhupāda: "So if I haven't got love, then why I am coming to church?"
Satsvarūpa: Well, we're educating them what is God. They go to church, but they don't know. "What is your idea of God?" We ask them.
Prabhupāda: "Whatever it may be, when I offer my prayers, I remember there is some God. I may not have clear idea. I have got my own conception of God." So what is the answer?
Satsvarūpa: Well, there are symptoms if you... We don't discourage, as Pañcadraviḍa Mahārāja says, but if you are following God, the best religion is that which develops love of God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is answered. "If I haven't got love for God, then why I am coming to church?"
Pañcadraviḍa: If you have love for God, why you are coming to church?
Prabhupāda: No. "Because I have got love for God, therefore I am coming to church. At that time I could have earned some money."
Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:
Prabhupāda: "No, I know in my own way."
Satsvarūpa: That is not sufficient. You should develop, become educated.
Prabhupāda: "But what is the use of it, having sufficiency? What is the distinction, that you have got sufficient love and therefore there is distin...?"
Satsvarūpa: Ah, I may not have sufficient love, but one who does, he'll increase every way...
Prabhupāda: "But then if you have no sufficient love, you cannot preach. Why you are preaching for me? You just show me example."
Akṣayānanda: You may be a very good example, but we see most of the Christians do not even follow the teachings. For example...
Prabhupāda: Here you have come to the real point. Here he has come to the point. That is the point. If you love God, then why you disobey His order? That means you do not love God. That is the real point. (break) ...is that you love God for getting something from Him. But we do not love God for getting something. This is another point. So the first point is this. This is very important point, that if you love God, why you are becoming disobedient to the orders of God? That is the most important point.
Morning Walk -- April 29, 1974, Hyderabad:
Gargamuni: Allahabad is an important place?
Prabhupāda: Oh yes, Allahabad, very important. The UP high-court is there. Therefore all enlightened... University is there. All educated men of UP are in Allahabad. This Jawaharlal Nehru, Motilal Nehru, they were Allahabad men. Sarte(?) Bahadur Satru(?), big, big, well-known men, they are all... Pandita Madana Mohana Mahalabdha. All big, big politicians, they were Allahabad men. (break) ...times to print the books here. No action was taken. In the last five years, everyone tried and there was no result. Otherwise we can print all the books here.
Gargamuni: No, but the quality is better.
Prabhupāda: Quality is better, but it will be cheaper. It doesn't matter. But to get books there, it takes so much time and the book department is not being managed nicely. But if we print here, the all problems will be solved. Here that gentleman, he has got press. Why not let him print? Yes. Why don't you call him immediately? If he can print. We can reprint all the books here.
Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:
Richard Webster: Well, I don't think they are restricted now.
Prabhupāda: No, it is going on. In India I know. They are selling sugar at two annas, four annas a pound, or seer, outside, and India, it is four rupees. What is this nonsense? This is going on. They want to import some war materials or something else, therefore they want export exchange. So they are sacrificing the convenience of the local people for export exchange. These things are going on. These politicians, they create an atmo... Therefore I say the head of the state, they must be clean. But they are all motivated. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. Generally politician has got a particular motive behind him. And when he cannot pull on they declare war. That Pakistan. Pakistan, since the beginning of Pakistan they could not make any economic condition very sound. But when the people are too much agitated, they declare war with India. The whole attention is... And they have been educated in such a way that India is their strongest enemy. Anything Indian, they dislike in Pakistan. So this is going on by the politicians.
Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:
Cardinal Pignedoli: You were.
Prabhupāda: No, not on the street. Some of the boys, they came to my hotel. So so far I saw, the people, they are very nice. They are very nice, but the government supresses their sentiments. Everyone has got religious sentiments. The people is as good as in other places. I don't find any difference. It is not that the whole Russia is atheist. It is not that. They are as others. They are like that. And our philosophy is that everyone is God conscious; simply it is being suppressed, either by the so-called leaders or by the influence of external energy, which is called māyā. We have got a verse in this Caitanya-caritāmṛta where it is said that nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya. It is not an artificial thing. To make one God conscious is not artificial. God consciousness is there, even in the life of aborigines, most crude people. It has to be awakened by education. Śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte. One has to be educated. And he should be given chance to hear about God. And then, as soon as he becomes purified in his consciousness, he accepts and begins to love God. So it is not an artificial thing. Either in Russia or any place, any human being, he has got dormant love for God. It has to be awakened by processes.
Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:
Bhagavān: Some people would be engaged in copying books.
Prabhupāda: No, you engage yourself. If you want book, that book, you copy yourself. Why someone should be engaged for you? You have got enough time. You are not going to the factory or hundred miles for your earning livelihood. You are on the local space. You have got enough time. You just take, copy. That's all. Minimize your unnecessary waste of time. Save time. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Go back to home. This is our idea. Instead of chanting twenty-five rounds, you chant hundred rounds. That is utilization of proper time. Instead of begetting cats and dogs, you just beget one child, Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is the ideal life. What is the use of using sex life unnecessarily? Therefore only for begetting nice child one should have sex life. This is ideal life. Not that you use sex life, contraceptive method. This is all demonism. But they cannot do without it. Because they have no other engagement, they do not know how nice Kṛṣṇa is and how pleasurable it is to reciprocate with Kṛṣṇa, Therefore they go to the dog's pleasure, sex life on the street and there, on the beach. That's all. They have been educated like dogs. Therefore they want it.
Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:
Prabhupāda: Ah, mad-bhāvam āgatāḥ. Mad-bhāvam, "My nature." "My nature" means spiritual nature. Kṛṣṇa is spirit. Or the another nature. This is material nature. This is another nature. That is kingdom of God, spiritual nature, Vaikuṇṭha planet. Āgatāḥ: "They came." Every information is there, every opportunity is there. Simply they are not educated. Therefore the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for educating these rascals. That's all. They are mad after sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ, mad. From the morning, as soon as they rise, "Give me a cup of tea, immediately I have to go to there and there and there." What you will do then? "Yes, I will die. I will die in a motor accident. They are waiting for me." All right, go. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). All kinds of forbidden works they are doing. What? What is the purpose? Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaye. Purpose is only sense gratification. The rascal does not know that "I am doing all these sinful activities for sense gratification, and I will have to accept a very low-grade body." That he does not know. He has already got one low-grade body. He is suffering only. And he will still get another low-grade body, more suffering. That he does not know.
Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:
Yogeśvara: Well, he says it's difficult to be any kind of doctor or professor unless you are properly qualified.
Prabhupāda: No, from this point of... He is right. Unless he has got the medical degrees, unless he is educated... We also say that thing, that unless one is sufficiently educated in medical science or legal science, he cannot be said a medical man or a legal man.
Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: So then the first point is to educate people who they are serving, they are working for.
Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all, there must be a class of men, ideal men, brain; people will follow them. My request is therefore that you should become ideal men. If we fight... Now there is fighting amongst ourself. That is very disappointment to me. The same politics, intrigues. The nature is so strong that brain becomes, what is called? Fag brain? Brain becomes deranged.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: I remember on a walk in Vṛndāvana, Your Divine Grace said that there should be no politics in our society because a Vaiṣṇava means one who wants to help others become happy.
Prabhupāda: Now politics is coming in. As soon as we are getting money, the politics coming. That is a great concern.
Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Is it that the śūdra class of men should be trained that they are serving either God or a God conscious leader, or should they be educated to feel that their work is for God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, provided you are for God. They will see and learn. If you simply teach them, you do not do anything, then how they will learn? Āpani ācari prabhu jīve śikhāilā. When they actually see that "These men are dedicated to God," then they'll do whatever you wish.
Yogeśvara: They are making better organizations, but they are not giving any example to the people.
Prabhupāda: Everyone is concocting some ideas, and they are going on as different organization. That's all. No standard idea. The standard idea is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, that cows should be given protection, go-rakṣya. Who is following this? Everyone is making plan how to kill cows in a more scientific way. This is going on. Who is taking the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā? Nobody is taking. Even in India where Bhagavad-gītā is originally, these rascals also not taking. And they have become so brainless. Therefore the whole human society is a dead society. And the dead society's dressing, decorating, is useless waste of time. That's all.
Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:
Prabhupāda: I would say "If he has no brain, what is the use of going to a meeting?" (laughter) Our only... Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). The men are like dogs, hogs, camels and asses. What they will do? Meeting of the dogs, hogs, camels and asses will be any beneficial to the society? We are very pessimistic, and our conclusion, that anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is dogs, hogs, camels, asses, that's all. No brain, animal. Animal has got brain: how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex life. So these people, they have got brain for that purposes only. That is animal life. Actually, they do not know what is the aim of life, why people should be educated, why human society should be organized. They do not know. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Enamored by these big, big buildings. That's all. "Oh, they are so advanced." And naturally, the common man comes to the European or American city, he says, "Oh, Americans are very rich." "Rich" means they have piled up stones and bricks, that's all. This is their richness. What is there in the richness here? But people are common men. They think that this piling of bricks and stone is like real civilization. What do you think? Is that real civilization?
Yogeśvara: No.
Room Conversation with Monsieur Roost, Hatha-yogi -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:
Prabhupāda: So we are practicing this bhakti-yoga and teaching others also.
M. Roost: And when people are not prepared, for example, to be vegetarian and to..., when his mind is not prepared to his life what are you doing? How can you educate people to come...?
Prabhupāda: No, we are educating. We are educating hundreds and thousands. If one agrees to...
M. Roost: Occidental people.
Prabhupāda: They are all occidental.
M. Roost: Yes, yes, you, but very few people. How do you...?
Prabhupāda: Occidental means eastern, er, western? Yes.
Nitāi: Western.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are all western. They have taken to it. They have given up all such habits. In the beginning they were coming to me with their girlfriends, boyfriends. I said, "No, you cannot stay like that." So they agreed. I have got them married personally. They have got children. If you want to live as gṛhastha, live. If you want to live as vānaprastha or as sannyāsa... So generally, young men, young girls, I get them married. There is no harm. Married life, sex life, that is allowed in the śāstra. But not illicit sex. That is not allowed. If one remains sinful, he cannot make any progress of spiritual life. That is not possible.
Room Conversation with Biochemist, Dr. Sallaz -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:
Yogeśvara: He says first of all, so far as cooperation is concerned, he is just one man. He is the president, although he is the president, still, he is only one man, and he can only speak in terms of cooperating with the spiritual movement among the more enlightened members of his group.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is required, because if the enlightened men of the society does something, others will follow. It is not that the general mass of people has to be educated. They will be automatically educated. They will follow. If the enlightened man is living in such a way that he is going to be transferred to the spiritual world, then others will follow. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). At least, there must be a class of men, ideal men, that they are preparing themselves for transferring to the spiritual world. Then people will see that "Here is the ideal man," and they will try to follow. (French) But if people see that "He is also like us. He is also drinking, he is also eating meat, and he is also having illicit sex," then where is the ideal man? Everyone is implicated with these things, sinful life.
Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:
Prabhupāda: So it is said, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), according to quality and work. When one is educated in the quality of brāhmaṇa, Vaiṣṇava, and he works like a brāhmaṇa, he is no longer śūdra or caṇḍāla or yavana. He is brāhmaṇa or Vaiṣṇava.
Swiss Man (2): (French)
Yogeśvara: He says, in a sense we're something like the Buddhists because the Buddhists also don't take account of this, of the caste system.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Buddhist or anyone. Just like a person, when he is not educated in medical science he is not a medical man, but when he is properly educated in the medical science and he practices as a medical man, then he is a medical man. So you take it from Buddhism, or Hinduism; it doesn't matter. The thing is, consideration is, guṇa-karma. One must be qualified and he must work. Then he is elevated.
Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:
Yogeśvara: He says one thing, one thing is very impressive, to see how well your disciples know the scriptures.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they have been educated in that way. For education we have so many books. If from child up to the age of eighty years, if one is educated, we have got sufficient stock to give him education.
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Prabhupāda: We have got our educational institution in Dallas, Gurukula. From small children we are educating to become highest devotee.
Swiss Man (1): (French)
Guru-gaurāṅga: (French) This gentleman says we had difficulties with the police in the beginning. And I said, "Yes, but then I went, and I gave him all your books, and he read them, and then there were no more difficulties."
Prabhupāda: Yes, on account of our books we are being appreciated everywhere. In the beginning they might have thought that "Some of the hippies," like that.
Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:
Prabhupāda: ...for B.A. examination. So the father failed, and the daughter passed. Yes, because the old man cannot take education. In Bhāgavata also it is recommended, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāga... (SB 7.6.1). Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be taught from the very beginning of life. The more younger, you capture it. Just like we were educated from the very birth by our father. The same thing, what I am doing now in larger scale, I did in my childhood, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa worship and Ratha-yātrā, the same thing.
Nitāi: Would you like some refreshment, something to drink or eat?
Prabhupāda: Little fruit and a little this. (end)
Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:
Priest: For studies it's a beautiful place, and particularly for Sanskrit.
Prabhupāda: Yes, there are many good scholars.
Priest: Many scholars, many institutions, and also the society is rich.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Maharastrian, they are educated, advanced.
Priest: How do you find your disciples here in Europe?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Priest: I shouldn't ask personal question.
Prabhupāda: No, it is not personal. It is..., Caitanya Mahāprabhu's cult is so nice that it can attract anyone.
Priest: It does, it does.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not only here in Europe—in Africa, in Canada, in China, in Japan, everywhere. In, what is called, Philippines. We have got everywhere center—Australia.
Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:
Prabhupāda: So animals, cows, as soon as they take some opportunity, they push their head and take something. Get away. Now, the animal, the cow is passing, and a human being is also passing. But the human being, although he's hungry, he likes to take some of the preparation, but he'll not do like that animal. He knows that "I have no money. So I shall have to restrain my tongue." That is human being. The animal pushes the head. So anyone who cannot carry the regulative principles is animal. The law is for human being. "Keep to the left, keep to the right" for... This is not for the dogs. Dogs can keep to the right, keep to the left, anywhere. But he's not criminal. Because he's animal. But if a man, instead of keeping to the right, he goes to the left, immediately, he's criminal. Therefore human society means to abide first-class law. That is human being. The laws must be made for advancement of spiritual life. That is human society. Because animal life, it doesn't require any law. How to eat, it doesn't require any law. Everyone knows. Man knows, animal knows. How to have sex life, it is not to be educated. Everyone knows. But they are philosophizing on sex life. Freud. What is this Freud?
Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:
Prabhupāda: Jātu. What is...? Even for some time, they did not hear. Purport?
Nitāi: "The general mass of people, unless they are trained systematically for a higher standard of life in spiritual values, are no better than animals, and in this verse they have been particularly put on the level of dogs, hogs, camels and asses. Modern university education practically prepares one to acquire a doggish mentality to accept the service of a greater master. Like the dogs, after finishing so-called education, the so-called educated persons move from door to door with applications for some service,..."
Prabhupāda: At least, we have got this experience in India. There are so many unemployed, educated. Because they have been educated as dog, they must find out a master. Otherwise, they have no independent power to work. Dog, unless he finds out a very nice master, it is street dog, loitering in the street.
Bhagavān: There's a report that there's so many Ph.D's who are graduating from school now that there are not enough jobs for them. So they have to take jobs as truck-driver and taxi driver.
Prabhupāda: Where?
Bhagavān: In the United States.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: And that is supposed to be the brāhmaṇa class too, the professors. They're the educated class of people.
Prabhupāda: No, no. They are not brāhmaṇas. Those who give education in exchange of money, they are not brāhmaṇas. Just like we are lecturing, educated, educating people. We don't say that "Give us salary." We simply ask them, "Please come." Therefore we are making food. I'll give you food. I'll give you good seat. Please come and hear. We are not asking money, that "First of all pay the fees. Then you come and learn Bhagavad-gītā." We never say so. So those, these so-called teachers, they first of all set up salary, "What salary you'll give me?" That is dog's business. That is not brāhmaṇa's business. Brāhmaṇa will never ask. Brāhmaṇa is eager to give lesson only. That's all. Brāhmaṇa is eager to see that people are educated. "Take free education and be educated. Be a human being." This is brāhmaṇa's business. I came here not to ask for any money. But I want to give lesson. This is brāhmaṇa's business.
Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, in the western countries now, the young people, when their parents grow old, they generally send them away to old age homes. So if they have no compassion even towards their own parents, that they would send them away, then how can we educate them to protect the cow which is just like mother if they're even willing to practically kill their parents?
Prabhupāda: So there is no question of protecting. We shall protect. Simply we ask them that "Don't purchase meat from the slaughterhouse. We shall supply you the cow after his death." Where is the wrong?
Satsvarūpa: Not enough meat.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Satsvarūpa: Not enough meat fast enough, they're eating so much beef.
Prabhupāda: No, fast, fast. Fast means you have to eat the cow's flesh. So how you can make it fast? The cows' number are the same. So it will remain the same. Simply you wait for the natural death. Where is the restriction? You have got a limited number of cows. Either you wait for the death, or you kill it at once, the number of cows are the same. So we simply request you that you don't kill them. Wait for the natural death and take it. What is the wrong? The number of cows is the same. You cannot increase it. Increase or decrease, the number of cows is there. So we simply request you that so long they're alive, let us take it's milk, and give nice foodstuff to the human society.
Morning Walk -- June 13, 1974, Paris:
Prabhupāda: Then it is māyā. Otherwise, it is reality. If they would have installed Deity worship in these buildings, how much nice it would have been. People chanting, dancing, and taking prasādam, twenty-four hours. Then it is no more māyā. It is reality. Such big, big, nice houses, they should have been places of worshiping Kṛṣṇa. But they're worshiping bones, keeping some dead bones, and...
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: People must be educated that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That is a fact. Why they do not understand?
Paramahaṁsa: The government argues that they do not want to discriminate against any religious faith. So they remain secular.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is no governmen... Religious faith is different. That is nonsense. You, we are talking of science. We are, just like we were saying that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. So where is the, any religious feeling? Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, how you can say no? Can you say?
Paramahaṁsa: They can say, "We don't know Kṛṣṇa."
Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:
Pṛthu Putra: He doesn't agree if a man create or imagine a goal, he says, the real goal, the real things...
Prabhupāda: No, it is not imagination. That is another foolishness, to imagine a goal. If we imagine some goal, that is another rascaldom. We have to understand what is the goal of life from superior. Just like a child. He does not know what is the goal of life, but his parents know he must be educated. So goal has not to be imagined. Goal has to be understood from superior. So if the superior man is also blind, then he cannot lead other blind forward. If a blind man takes the position of superior, then he will lead these followers to the ditch only. That's all. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says who can understand that someone is blind or not blind?
Yogeśvara: Who can judge.
Prabhupāda: But because he has no eyes, he cannot see. Therefore he has to hear. He has to hear.
Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:
Nitāi:
- na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
- prapadyante narādhamāḥ
- māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
- āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
- (BG 7.15)
"Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, lowest amongst mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons do not surrender unto Me." It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā that simply by surrendering oneself unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality Kṛṣṇa, one can surmount the stringent laws of material nature. At this point a question rises. How is it that educated philosophers, scientists, businessmen, administrators and all the leaders of ordinary men do not surrender unto the lotus... (break) ...Manu, Vyāsa, Devala, Asita, Janaka, Prahlāda, Bali, and later on, Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Śrī Caitanya and many others who are faithful philosophers, politicians, educators, and scientists etc. surrendered unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Person, the all-powerful authority. Those who are not actually philosophers, scientists, educators, administrators, etc., but who pose themselves as such for material gain, do not accept the plan or path of the Supreme Lord. They have no idea of God. They simply manufacture their own worldly plans and consequently complicate the problems of material..."
Prabhupāda: Everyone comes, they say, "Why people are suffering?" They are concerned with the people suffering. Actually not. That is a plea only, as if he has taken the task of minimizing the suffering of humanity. He poses himself as very philanthropist. Actually, he cannot do anything.
Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:
Prabhupāda: And the process is going on. The chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, by this process they fully realize that, the master, the Supreme Being, and engages himself always. These European, American boys, they are all educated. Not... In your country, of course, the young men...
Professor Durckheim: They are educated too.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are always engaged in devotional service. So unless there is some realization, how they can engage their time in this way? (break) "You are human being. You can eat. I have given you fruits. I have given you vegetables. I have given you food grains. I have given you milk, very nutritious, palatable, containing all vitamin ABCD. And why should you kill animals? Why should you give trouble to the others?" This is self-realization, that "Here is another self. The same active principle is working there. The body is different. Why shall I kill him?" So they have realized it. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Equal vision to all living entities, that the self, that active principle, is working in the fish, in the insect, within the tree, within the plant, within the animals, within the birds and within me. This is self-realization.
Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:
Professor Durckheim: Your message, I think, will be very much appreciated by the youth of today in the western part of the world who says to the adults, "You have educated us to go to maintain our position in the world, to do something useful for the community and to behave nicely. But you never, but you never asked us who we are and who we should become (indistinct)." This is the problem.
Prabhupāda: That is the beginning of our talk, that you are spirit soul.
Professor Durckheim: I beg your pardon.
Prabhupāda: You are spirit soul, not this body. That is the beginning of our talk.
Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:
Prof. Pater Porsch: But will this center also be a place of learning for Sanskrit studies and allied topics?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We are educating our children in Dallas. We have got very good institution, Sanskrit and English, and they are reading these books. That is sufficient. If they read these books, all different department of knowledge will be acquired. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. Yes. You can play a little record. Last night...
Haṁsadūta: This morning's recording?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prof. Pater Porsch: May I please ask, are there is also room for physical yoga exercises while chanting of the God's names?
Prabhupāda: Yes, but we are exercising by dancing.
Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:
Guest: So, bhakti is really a process of decontaminating the mind?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (indistinct) That is the real education. And all this rascal education will not help because all this education will keep you within this material body. The real relief is how to get you out of this material entanglement. Tyaktva dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). (indistinct) After giving up this material body, no more acceptance of this material body. That is real education. And Bhāgavata says pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, gurur na sa syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. There is no need of becoming father unless you train up your child to accept no more this material body. The child should be trained up by the father. The guru should train up the disciple in such a way that the disciple or the child or the student will not have to accept any more material body. (indistinct) The whole Vedic education system how to stop acceptance of material body. That is called mukti. Mukti, the definition of mukti is given in the Bhāgavata, muktir hitvānyathā rūpam. Mukti means when one is able to give up another form of body. He has got his own body, spiritual body, but so long as he has to accept another form of body, he is conditioned. Bhāgavata, muktir hitvānyathā rūpam sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. Mukti means to stay in his original spiritual form. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate people how to achieve the original consciousness, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:
Pater Emmanuel: (German) It is in the relation of man. "Don't kill," it says, the Christianity understands...
Prabhupāda: Why they understand like that? That means that Lord Christ was not sufficiently educated to use the right word, "murder"? Does it mean so? There are two words, killing and murder. Murder is especially meant for the human being. So do you think that Christ was not learned enough to use the word murder instead of "killing"? "Killing" means any kind of killing, especially animal killing. Otherwise you should have frankly openly used the word, "Thou shall not murder." Even if it is meant like that, so does it mean that he was preaching amongst the murderers? They are very first-class men? They are all murderers? Therefore the injunction. This kind of interpretation does not appeal to us.
Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:
Prabhupāda: So nowadays the rascal philosophy has spread that everyone is God, and therefore nobody is humble and meek. If everyone thinks that he is God, then why he should be humble and meek? So they are being educated how to become humble and meek. In the temple, to God, or to the spiritual master, the God's representative, they offer always respect by offering obeisances. That is humble and meek. They are doing very easily progress, you see, only on account of this humbleness and meekness. Even on the road, if they see me, they immediately fall down flat. Never mind there is dust. This very qualification is pushing them towards spiritual realization.
Morning Walk -- June 27, 1974, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: ...has got this body of a tree and one has got the body of human being, demigod. So the reason is kāraṇam, kāraṇam means reason, guṇa-saṅgo 'sya, as he is infecting the modes of material nature. Infection. If we infect some choleric diarrhea, we suffer. Nature's law is. Therefore human being should be cautious not to infect. Just like educated man or civilized man, he is cautious not to infect some kind of contaminated disease. Similarly, human form of body with higher consciousness is there just to remain always cautious not to infect material, I mean, modes of nature. And that is devotional service.
Reporters Interview -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: Similarly, if you... We living entities, we are spirit soul. We are not this material body. Unfortunately our system of education is so dull that the authorities do not know that we are not this body, we are spirit soul. Still, they are big, big philosopher, big, big politician and big, big leader and social authorities. But real thing is mistaken. He is accepting this body as self, or he is thinking that "The bodily comforts will make me happy." But that cannot be because the body is made of matter and we are spirit soul. The same thing: From water, you catch the fish and put on the land; it will never be happy. So long you'll continue to have this material body, there cannot be any happiness. And so many problems. The main problem is birth, death, old age and disease. So this is due to this material body. Therefore an intelligent man should know that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul; my field of activities are on the spiritual platform; and then I will be happy." So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means educating people how to be situated on the spiritual platform and be happy. This is the sum and substance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Reporters Interview -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:
Guest (2): And this path of devotional yoga, bhakti-yoga, that is the path for this time, for this age?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhakti-yoga is the real yoga. You'll find in Bhagavad-gītā when yoga system is described the Lord says,
- yoginām api sarveṣāṁ
- mad-gatenāntarātmanā
- śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ
- sa me yuktatamo mataḥ
- (BG 6.47)
"The first-class yogi is he who is always thinking of Me," or Kṛṣṇa, "within Himself." He is first-class yogi. So our, these students, they are being educated how to think of Kṛṣṇa always, twenty-four hours, without any stop. And that is first-class yoga.
Room Conversation with Bishop Kelly -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:
Bishop Kelly: I hope that in some real way that the cause of God will be served the better for this meeting. I do wish you Godspeed in your work, and in that, of course...
Prabhupāda: Yes, we are trying our bit to educate people how to revive his original God consciousness. Then he will be happy. Our principle is how to make people happy. There is a verse about the gosvāmīs. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. This word is very important, lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau: "for the welfare of the people in general." People accuse sometimes—of course, foolish people do that—that these God conscious person they are escaping. No. Who are actually God conscious person is always thinking how to do well to the people in general. Yes. Sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau. Give it to him. You can take.
Room Conversation with Bhurijana dasa and Disciples -- July 1, 1974, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: If you still cannot understand what is my instruction, then how can I help you? New students may say like that. You are intelligent, educated, old student. If you say... (long, silent pause) Our movement is that beginning of spiritual life is to surrender. If there is no surrendering, then it is no advance. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is the beginning. If that thing is lacking, there is no beginning even, what to speak of advancement. That is discussed already. Na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti na sukhaṁ na paraṁ gatiḥ. This is the beginning of spiritual life. The word is called disciple. Disciple means who accept discipline. If there is no discipline, where is disciple? And "disciplic succession." We have used this word. Not that discipline is finished by one man, no. It will continue to go by succession. That is perfect.
Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: But I know, all educated and advanced educated Englishmen, they were coming to Australia for good job. Therefore most of the technical posts, they are occupied by Indians in London. As soon as one is highly qualified medical man, he comes to Australia. So who will take care of them? So therefore they imported some brain from India. Anyway, our time should be saved for self-realization. That is perfect civilization. And not for creating unnecessary necessity of life. That will increase problem. So scientists, they disagreed or agreed with us?
Madhudviṣa: They did not want to get... They did not want to...
Prabhupāda: But they could not answer "Who is the manufacturer of the brain of the scientist?" That they could not.
Room Conversation -- August 12, 1975, Paris (with French translator):
Prabhupāda: So gaining or losing this opportunity, that is my responsibility. If I am not responsible... (break)
But if the head, king, or president excuses him, he can save. So nobody in this material world can transcend or overcome the laws of material nature. But if one is devotee, by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, he can. This is the sum and substance. Therefore, we have no responsibility. If we have touched fire, then it must burn. So whatever we may be, very big man, we cannot violate the laws of nature. Tit for tat we accept. So those who are violating laws of material nature, they suffer continuously. But when he takes to Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet shelter, sincerely surrendering, then he can be saved. Otherwise not. So everyone should become Kṛṣṇa conscious, and he should try to save his relatives, friends, husband, wife, children from these clutches of laws of material nature by educating him to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the only responsibility. That is intelligence. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, na ca tasmāt manuṣyeṣu kaścit me priya-kṛttamaḥ. Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣu abhidhāsyati (Bg 18.68).
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:
Prabhupāda: One body is in need of food; another body is in need of something else. They're needy, everyone, needy. That you have to accept. I have seen in Los Angeles. I was walking in the Beverly Hills quarter. One hippie boy is coming from a very nice house. Beverly Hills, that quarter, is resided by all rich class. And he has got very nice car, but he's hippie. Why? His father is very rich man. He has got nice car. He might be very educated. Then why he is hippie? What is the answer?
Hanumān: He's frustrated.
Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:
Hṛdayānanda: ...Universal Brotherhood, which is a yoga group around Latin America and they say they are trying to re-educate people and help bring understanding between different cultures. He's originally Mexican.
Prabhupāda: What is the name?
Hṛdayānanda: (Spanish)
Guest: (Spanish)
Hṛdayānanda: Jose Marciel.
Prabhupāda: No, what is the name of the group?
Hṛdayānanda: The Great Yoga Fraternity, or The Great Universal Brotherhood.
Prabhupāda: So what is the purpose of this yoga?
Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He says that the spirit is also extremely important for the following reason. He feels that the human being needs to have problems and fight for something. The example he gave was in the Scandinavian countries they've practically solved all material problems. They have so many Social Security and this and that, and there are practically no material problems, but they have the highest suicide rate in the world.
Prabhupāda: Yes, exactly. So where is the institution, university, for educating people of the spirit soul? Where is it? Therefore the whole civilization is going in the wrong way.
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He feels there are some people, for example who are teaching the right thing. There are missionaries who go to the Amazon jungles and also to Africa to teach. And he feels they are offering...
Prabhupāda: But we find the great cities are great jungles. A great city is a great forest. (lady begins speaking) Let her come forward.
Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1975, Atlanta:
Rūpānuga: So this book actually, is directed to scientifically-minded people because in this age people are getting educated. They are getting scientific-minded.
Prabhupāda: But that creating problem. The psychiatrists came to see me, where? Caracas. So I said—he admitted, both the psychiatrists—that "You are not treating the real person who is diseased." I gave him the example, that "You have got good car, but the driver is a madman, and he is creating disaster, and you psychiatrists are going to cure it. You never say that 'The driver is bad. Change him or just educate him. Then there will be no disaster.' But you are taking your fees and giving some repairing in the car. But you do not know what is the original cause of disaster. It is not chance. Due to the bad driver." So our propaganda is to give the bad driver nice knowledge so that he can drive the car to Vaikuṇṭha. That is our position. And these rascals, the materialists, they are simply painting the body of the car. And the driver? "Let him starve."
Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:
Guest (2): Spiritual type.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not spiritual type, it..., material type. He cannot maintain himself independently. Nowadays people are being educated highly, but if there is no service he has no value.
Guest (2): So the tamasi.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He has no value. I have seen one doctor of chemistry—he could not get any service—in Allahabad. His name was Raghunātha Mitri(?), Dr. Raghunātha Mitri. So he was living at the cost of his father-in-law and making some soap and going to the shop for selling, doctor. That means he could not get any service. Now his independence was to manufacture some soap as ordinary man is doing. But he was chemist; he could not do anything. He could manufacture some soap. So in spite of high education, because he could not get a good job, he had no value. Just like the dogs. The dogs, if they do not get a master, nice, then street dog.
Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:
Guest (1): ...at the present time in this country to 10% of the people. They don't have jobs. They are let out. They can't...
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, every country, every country. Now, just like you are highly educated. Your country could not give you service. You are coming here. And that is śūdra. One who cannot live independently, he is śūdra. Paricaryātmakaṁ karyaṁ śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In this age, everyone is practically śūdra, because nobody can live independently. So we are producing mass śūdras. Therefore it is in chaotic condition. The Communist is the last word of the śūdras. The Communist philosophy is that "We are worker. We have all the power. We must have all the power." And that they are doing. And because they do not want to obey any authority, therefore they are denying existence of God. This is the tendency of the modern society. Not only they do not know what is God, and they are trying to disobey the orders of God. So practically there is no religion.
Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:
Guest (7): The young children also? What about young children?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Young children should be educated from the very beginning about God consciousness or the science of God. We had the opportunity in our childhood. My father taught. And then, when I was grown up, my spiritual master taught. So for that reason we have got some sense. Spiritual education should be given...
- kaumāra ācaret prājño
- dharmān bhāgavatān iha
- durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma
- tad apy adhruvam arthadam
- (SB 7.6.1)
This is statement of Prahlāda Mahārāja. He was a five-years-old boy and a devotee. So he was trying to preach amongst his classfellows. The classfellows said, "Why you are bothering about spiritual consciousness, God consciousness, now? We are young men. Let us play." He said, "No. The spiritual life should begin kaumāra, just at the beginning of five years." Why? Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma: "This human form of life is very rarely obtained, and we do not know when we shall die. So before our next death we must be spiritually equipped. That is the business of human life." There is no guarantee when death will come.
Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:
Rūpānuga: Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. They are so-called educated, doctors, but actually they have no knowledge. Simply they are bluffing, cheating. Where is the question of creation? So many millions and trillions of living entities are there, and they are making conference, "How to create from chemicals?" Just see this childish proposal. And wasting time and misleading person, and wasting hard-earned money of the state. And big, big foundation supplying them money. And if you ask, "Give us some money for Kṛṣṇa consciousness," "No, no, we are not interested in religion. We are interested in science, and this is the science." All fools and rascal, mūḍhā. That is our test. Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a mūḍhā. Bas. We have got the test tube, this Bhagavad-gītā, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). So as soon as we see here is a man, if he has not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, "All right, you are mūḍhā." That's all. We haven't got to test him. Test tube is already there.
Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is a driver necessary.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the first instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāra... (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ. There is a living entity, driver, within this body. That is the first instruction. Unless one understands this simple thing, he is an ass. There is no knowledge. Because everything is based on something fictitious. This is the first thing one has to learn, the scientists, that there is the driver which is missing. Or the driver is moving this body. And if the driver is educated, then he can move this body to Kṛṣṇa, back to home, back to Godhead. Then he becomes perfect. So we are educating the driver. We are not painting the tin car. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they talk only about molecules. That everybody knows that molecules are around and it's evolving. But they don't know that there is life. They take...
Prabhupāda: That is their defect. That is their defect, we want to educate them on this point.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And on the seventh chapter there is that Prabhupāda's, that theory of acintya-śakti.
Prabhupāda: Mm.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That will be a collective effort of all the prabhus from the movement.
Prabhupāda: Yes, acintya-śakti is there, within our body.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We want to present it in some sort of very good arguments, foundations are there. It will be our collective effort.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:
Prabhupāda: This I want. You are nicely educated. Now by dint of your education, you prove that background is Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Then your education will be perfect. Otherwise you are one of these fools and rascals, that's all. The particular type of education, mathematics, chemistry, physics, what you have learned after working so hard, now you should by your educational-departmental education—you prove that the background is Kṛṣṇa. Then your education is perfect. That is the verse, idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā.
Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:
Prabhupāda: Practical is that our śāstra says that pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. The idea is that one should not become a father, one should not become a mother, unless they know how to make his child immortal. Because soul is immortal but he is entangled in this material body, therefore death takes place. Actually soul is not born, na jāyate na mriyate vā. So this process is going on, transmigration of the soul from one body to another, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The father and mother should be so enlightened and educate the son in such a way that this is the last acceptance of material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), he may not accept again this material body. If the father and mother is determined in that way, then they should become parents, otherwise no.
Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:
Prabhupāda: Just see how ecstatic it is. Simple thing. Don't commit sinful activities and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, bas. You'll become elevated. Jagāi, Mādhāi, they were—in those days, because they were drunkards, women hunters, meat-eaters—they were considered most sinful. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu delivered them by this process. There were two Jagāi and Mādhāi and now hundreds and thousands of Jagāis and Mādhāis are becoming purified. Pāpī-tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo, tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. Everyone wants evidence. Huh? Pāpī-tāpī, all sinful men were delivered simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So you may ask what is the evidence? Tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi, the evidence is here, jagāi mādhāi. So not that Jagāi, Mādhāi five hundred years ago, now see at the present moment. They did not come to me after studying all the Vedas, and Vedantists. They come to me, I ask them that, "Don't commit these sinful activities and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."That's all. Everyone can do, even the child can do. So you are all educated men, you study this philosophy, try to understand, also join. It is your duty, because you are Indian. Caitanya Mahāprabhu entrusted this mission to the Indians.
Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:
Rūpānuga: I once asked a boy in Washington temple how many devotees he thought we had, and he said, "Oh, I cannot guess." And I said, "Make an educated guess." And he said, "Well, I've seen you here and I think maybe two million." (laughter) And I said, "Three thousand. Now just see the potency of Hare Kṛṣṇa. You're thinking we're two million, and we're simply a handful." He became a little convinced. So our books make us millions. People think we are millions because of the books.
Prabhupāda: Push on this. Then our movement is successful. All Americans should have at least one set of book. That is not very difficult for them, to purchase one set book. But it will be a good asset for them if they keep and see sometimes. Any line he reads, he will get transcendental knowledge.
Interview -- March 5, 1975, New York:
Prabhupāda: There is no question of age. Realization of God should be educated from the very beginning of life.
Reporter: Oh, I understand that, Swamiji. My question to you was at what age did you yourself in this physical incarnation realize the highest truth?
Prabhupāda: Of course, we were born in a very nice family. My father educated me in this way. So practically from the very beginning of our life we were educated in this way.
Reporter: Oh, no, I understand that. I mean at what time did you have your own personal realization, Swamiji? At what age?
Prabhupāda: Well, that I can say from the age, say, four or five years.
Interview -- March 5, 1975, New York:
Prabhupāda: They have already done. They have already done. Otherwise, I am Indian, I am poor man. Why they are after me? You Americans, you are rich men. So I have not bribed them. These young boys, they are educated, qualified. Why they are after me unless they have realized?
Reporter: Swamiji, I have one other question for you, please. By definition, it seems to me anyway, and I think to other observers, and sympathetic observers at that, that you have asked your spiritual children to leave the outer world in the West and to go deep within the heart of ISKCON, within your heart and the heart of the Supreme, to accomplish what you've set as their goal. What about outer service to humanity in this incarnation?
Prabhupāda: This is the best humanity's service. They were all fools and rascals and we educated them for spiritual understanding. The material... If I think "I am this body," then I am no better than cat and dog. That is going on. "I am American." "I am Indian." "I am Hindu." "I am Muslim." "I am Christian." Only this bodily relationship. But suppose you have come to me, can I ask you whether you are body or something else?
Interview -- March 5, 1975, New York:
Prabhupāda: That will include everything. If we make Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he becomes perfectly educated. We do not require to... Just like if you pour water on the root of the tree, the water reaches everywhere. And if you pour water on the leaf, on the twig, or on the branch, it does not go anywhere. It is localized. So at the present moment, service is a particular departmental service, not all-including. So, to educate people in Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to educate him all round.
Reporter: I understand, Swamiji. Again the deficiency is obviously with my question. My question relates to service to the outer world by your disciples.
Prabhupāda: That I have already explained...
Reporter: Yes, but...
Prabhupāda: That if you pour water on the root of the tree, the service reaches everywhere.
Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:
Reporter: Do they do anything like social work or other...
Prabhupāda: Yes, social work, this is the best social work. People are in ignorance, and we are giving them knowledge. Is it not the best social work? If you keep the man in ignorance and if you give him something... Just like your child. You simply give him to eat but no education. Then what is the benefit? Is that very good nice work, that you give your children nice food to become robust but no education? Is that very good nice work? People are, in this human form of life, especially meant for understanding God. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the Vedānta-sūtra. So they are keeping them in darkness and teaching them technology, how to make cycle. That's all. The life is meant for understanding God, and they have been educated for making cycle and sewing machine. This is going on. Therefore there will be disaster. It is already there. Just like in America or any Western country, they have manufactured so many cars, and now they are flattering the Arabians, "Please give us oil." You see? Power crisis. And if they stop manufacturing, there is unemployment. And if they increase car, there is power shortage. So this dilemma, this modern civilization will have to meet this dilemma because they are going against the laws of God.
Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:
Prabhupāda: That I do not know, but the remedy is there. If you like, you can take it. If a man is suffering from some disease, the remedy is there, the physician is there, but if he does not take advantage, then that is his business. What can be done? This is very nice... Every Bhāgavata, every line is so important.
- anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād
- bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje
- lokasyājānato vidvāṁś
- cakre sātvata-saṁhitām
- (SB 1.7.6)
Those who are high-grade personalities, they are always thinking, "How these rascals will be happy?" Their only business is that. But their instruction is not being accepted. That is the difficulty. They have been described as mūḍha. Mūḍha. This word, mūḍha, means rascals. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamaḥ (BG 7.15). The lowest of the mankind, miscreants and rascals, these class of men will not accept God as the supreme. But He is... Kṛṣṇa is speaking, "Rascal." One may protest that "There are so many educated men. They are all rascals?" But that is also confirmed: "Yes, they are rascals." Why? māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. "Their real knowledge has been taken away by the illusory energy." māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. Why it is done? Āsuri bhāvam āśritāḥ: "Because they have accepted this theory 'There is no God.' " That is the difficulty. Āsuri bhāvam āśritāḥ. They are under the control. How you can say there is no God? Are you free? Are you independent? What do you think? Are you independent of God?
Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:
Reporter: Will they be virtually living outside...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Outside also you can live. Simply you must know how to live. At the present moment you do not know how to live. That's all. And there is no education how to live. All of us being sent to the slaughterhouse, that's all. They do not know how to live. In the Vedic civilization you will find the first proposition is how to live. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). How to live... First the human society is divided into four: the brāhmaṇa, the kṣatriya, the vaiśya, or the śūdra. The first-class intelligent man, they are educated as brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa means satya śama dama titikṣa ārjava, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). Just like we are training engineer, similarly, a class of men, those who are very intelligent, they should be trained up as brāhmaṇa. They should be trained up how to speak truth any circumstance. Even to the enemy he will speak truth. This requires training, not that foolishly, a cats' and dogs' life. What is the value of this life? The modern civilization, they do not know how to live. They are simply interested in eating, and that's also any nonsense eating. But according to Vedic civilization, "This eating is first class. This eating is second class. This eating is third class. This eating is fourth class." So many things required to correct the mistaken way of civilization. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:
Prabhupāda: All questions are answered in the Bhagavad-gītā. You read Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly, and you will get all answer, all problems solved. Unfortunately, the so-called politicians and scholars, they misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā and ruin their career and misguide others. That is going on. All rascals are doing that. "This word means this," as if Kṛṣṇa left this word to be explained by a rascal. This is going on. He does not think of his position, that at any moment he will be kicked out of this platform of so-called leadership, so-called educated teacher, and he is commenting on the words of Kṛṣṇa. This is going on. He does not understand his position, that "What I am?"
Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:
Ambassador: So bhakti is really a process of decontaminating the mind.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Right you are. You are intelligent and... Yes. That is the real education. And all this rascal education will not help because all this education will keep him within this material body. And his real relief is how to get out of this material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). This is required, in Bhagavad-gītā. After giving up this body no more acceptance of this material body. That is real education. And Bhāgavata says, pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, gurur na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. There is no need of becoming father unless you train up your child to accept no more this material body. The child should be trained up by the father. The guru should train up the disciple in such a way that the disciple or the child or the student will not have to accept any more this material body. That is education. And the whole Vedic education is meant for this purpose. (break) ...in his original spiritual life, that is mukti. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that—to educate people how to achieve his original consciousness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:
Prabhupāda: So we are teaching people the same way, that "You always think of Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." That is thinking of Kṛṣṇa. So that is being effective. We are getting good result all over the world. Anyone who is thinking of Kṛṣṇa, he is becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, fully convinced, dedicating his life for Kṛṣṇa. Nobody can change him. Now any of my students, you ask them to change his position from Kṛṣṇa consciousness to something else. I don't think they will agree. They are not fools; they are all qualified, educated. They are firmly convinced about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And all of them will explain how they are convinced. If you ask them, any one of them will explain. They have not blindly accepted. So this is the process, that if you accept the pure path as accepted by the authorities, then it will be effective. Svayam eva... That is the Vedic principle. Svayam eva sphuraṭy adhaḥ. Spiritual realization is revealed. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ yena mām upayānti te. So if we adopt the right principle, then other things will automatically come and help us. And the process is very simple if we accept it. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ.
Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Where is the actual attempt to give everyone sufficient food? Where is that attempt? And here in the Bhagavad-gītā it is plainly said, annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) if you want to keep happy the animals and the men, then produce food grain. Who is doing that? They simply passing resolution and raising funds and then eating, themself, at the cost of others. And therefore the price is increasing. One who has got money, he can pay more price, artificial. I am poor man. I have no money. You have got money. You purchase before me. Then I starve. But if there is sufficient supply of food grain, then this thing will not happen. You can distribute without any price. That was being done in India. Educated man means unemployment, is it not? So-called education means creating unemployment. They will go with application, "Give me some clerical post, some this post, that post, that post." This is education.
Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:
Prabhupāda: Blind men. Therefore this fact is summarized in the Bhagavad-gītā in the words,
- na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
- prapadyante narādhamāḥ
- māyayāpahṛta jñānā
- āsuri-bhāvam āśritāḥ
- (BG 7.15)
Because they have denied the existence of God, therefore they are blind and they are engaged in sinful activities without knowing what is going to happen next in his life. Therefore mūḍha, rascal. And narādhamāḥ. Narādhamāḥ means lowest of the mankind, because in the human form of life one could understand what is God, but he is misusing his intelligence for something else, narādhamāḥ. But if you say, "They are educated. They have got so much education. Why do you condemn them?" then the answer is māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. This so-called knowledge they have acquired, that means māyā has made them more foolish.
Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:
Prabhupāda: He has said like that, that so far advancement of material education means that so-called educated man is becoming more, more, more an ass. Why?
anitya soṁsāre, moha janamiyā, He is simply getting more attached to this material world, where he will not be allowed to stay. This is his foolishness. Naturally, we are sitting in this room, and if we say that "I can spare only two minutes," then will you be very much eager to decorate the room? So that warning is already there. Everyone knows that "I will not be able to stay here," and they are making skyscraper building. How foolish they are. He knows that "I will not be allowed to stay here," and he is busy whole life how to make fogscraper, skyscraper. The same example. If I say, "You cannot sit here more than few minutes," then will you be engaged how to decorate this room? You'll know naturally that "I am here for two minutes. Why shall I take, waste my time to decorate?" They are doing that actually. So are they not foolish?
Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:
Prabhupāda: Our ideal is that we have got this body, and there are some bodily necessities. That is the prime necessities. So we do not neglect these necessities of the body. But our culture is spiritual culture. Generally, people, being disturbed by the bodily necessities, they do not inquire about the spiritual identity. Actually this is the distinction between human life and animal life. (Hindi) (break) Our real purpose of this mission is to educate people about his spiritual identity. All people, they are misguided by the idea-(aside:) Don't do—that he is this body, everyone, all over the world, especially in the Western countries.
Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:
Haṁsadūta: She says now in this movement a new generation is being raised up, the children that we have in our schools and in our movement.
Prabhupāda: There... Therefore we are educating children even.
Girl: For the future
Prabhupāda: Yes, future generation. Because the so-called educational institutions, they have produced only fools and rascals.
Girl: (German)
Haṁsadūta: She says you cannot change the society? We want to produce a new society?
Prabhupāda: No new society. A new status of consciousness. We don't want to change anything. We want to change the consciousness because they are in ignorance.
Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:
Prabhupāda: Who? Who? Who said?
Pañcadraviḍa: I was discussing with one Christian in India. So I attacked... Politely I attacked his scriptural reference, the Bible. I was saying that it was not meant that an educated community. So then he stopped me. He said, "That's all right. You can speak about fishermen. But," he said, "the prime exponent of Christianity was Paul. And Paul was previously Saul. He was not a fisherman. And he was traveling to a town on a particular... Damascus. And there he received direct revelation from God." And he said, "Then this one man, single-handedly, he converted most of the known world to Christianity."
Prabhupāda: That means he got direct revelation from God.
Pañcadraviḍa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is wanted.
Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:
Ravīndra-svarūpa: In the Bible they give twelve names for God.
Prabhupāda: No, let me finish this. If you do not accept Kṛṣṇa is the name of God,... I have explained what is the idea of Kṛṣṇa. The Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. The example is given: Just like gold. Gold is attractive to everyone—to the educated, the uneducated, to the black, to the white, man, woman, everyone. One who knows God, er, one who knows gold-gold is attractive. Similarly, God is all-attractive. There cannot be that "It is black gold," "It is white gold," "It is Christian gold," "It is Hindu gold." No. Gold is gold. So we present Kṛṣṇa that "Here is God, all-attractive." Now you say, "No, He's not God." Then you present your God.
Pañcadraviḍa: Well, I know just the...
Prabhupāda: You cannot say, reject. They cannot reject Kṛṣṇa unless you present an alternative.
Morning Walk -- April 19, 1975, Vrndavana:
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And now that you are saying, many people are stopping.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Somebody, they act... Just like illicit sex. They did not know that it is sinful. Now they are understanding. There was no good leader. Even the priests. In the Bible it is said, "Thou shalt not kill." The priests never said, because they are meat-eaters. They themselves are meat-eaters. How they can say? "It is our tradition to eat meat." But how the common man will be educated? (break) You can give me the general prasāda today. I will taste. (test?) (break) When one becomes rich, he becomes lazy. What is called? "Leads to poverty"? Luxury. "Luxury leads to poverty." So at one time one become very rich by hard work, and next generation gets the money for nothing, he spends it on luxuries, and the third generation, poor. There are many families, in everywhere. In England, all these English men, in the beginning they worked very hard, expanding their empire and working. Then gradually, when they became Lord family, then luxury. Now they are poverty-stricken.
Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:
Brahmānanda: "The propagation of mānava-dharma. Regarding propagation of mānava-dharma, mānava-dharma means the activities of the human beings. So the distinction between mānava-dharma and paśu-dharma is that in the animal society there is no idea of God consciousness. God consciousness can only be propagated in human society. In the animal society they may be physically stronger than the humans like the tiger and the elephant or many such animals, but they cannot be educated spiritually."
Prabhupāda: They may be very strong, our tiger and elephant, but they have no capacity to accept any education. Then?
Brahmānanda: "But in human society, even though one may be a low-grade member of the society, he can be trained up to be purified as a first-class brāhmaṇa. It only requires training. Therefore, manava-dharma means to impregnate a human being with spiritual knowledge. A human being must be educated spiritually. That means he must know that he is not this body.
Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:
Prabhupāda: That's all. Uneducated, half-educated, poor, poverty-stricken. They could not do anything. Some of our Godbrothers I have beat them. (Like Tīrtha) (indistinct). In his previous life he had a big, big business organization. So therefore he has been able to organize. They will admit. They are coming from some third-class status of life. This is not tripe, this is fact.
Paramahaṁsa: Actually, I noticed that myself so many times in the way you handle money and the managerial affairs, very expert.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Śrī-caitanya-mano 'bhīṣṭaṁ sthāpitaṁ yena bhū-tale, svayaṁ rūpa gosvāmī. Who established the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu? Rūpa Gosvāmī. He was minister. He was not a cultivator, plow department.
Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:
Prabhupāda: Love is far away. First of all you be educated.
Carol: How? In what way?
Prabhupāda: Education means right knowledge. Right knowledge. Just like, everyone wants to live. Nobody wants to die. So, the enquiry should be that "I do not wish to die. Why death is forced upon me?" What is that force? What is the nature of that force? If I submit, "Yes, the force is there," then where is my knowledge? I do not wish to die. So why death is forced upon me? Nobody wants miserable condition of life, but miserable condition of life is enforced upon me. So this should be first of all enquired, that I do not want these things, and who is enforcing upon me these things? This is the first enquiry, philosophical.
Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:
Prabhupāda: ...change your views victimized by these rascals. The rascals are very strong. (break) In the Sixteenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā it is said, pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ janā na vidur āsurāḥ. Asura. Asura, demons, demonic civilization, demonic people, they do not know what is pravṛtti and what is nivṛtti. Pravṛtti means material civilization, and nivṛtti means spiritual civilization. The modern man does not know. They are neither educated about this pravṛtti and nivṛtti. And we are speaking on nivṛtti, and all of them are in the pravṛtti. So they cannot understand. It is foreign to them. They have no idea what is spiritual life, spiritual civilization. Five thousand years ago Kṛṣṇa spoke of all these things very clearly. Later on, the things, from the beginning of Kali-yuga, the things are deteriorating, and therefore different types of religion has sprung up. The Buddhism, Christianism, Mohammedanism. They are not perfect understanding of religious principle. And gradually the number of so-called religious section are increasing. Our Mr. Nanda is presenting another religion, mānava-dharma. Everyone is manufacturing. And Vivekananda is supporting, "Yes, every type of religious system is as good." This is nonsense. Actually, they do not know what is religion.
Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:
Justin Murphy: I wish it were as simple as that for the majority of people.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone. Even the child can take part. Even the child, woman, educated, noneducated, rich man, poor man, worker—everyone can sit down and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So why don't you accept this formula?
Justin Murphy: How do you know that I haven't?
Prabhupāda: There is no check.
Justin Murphy: But how about the people living next door or the people...?
Prabhupāda: No, they can form different groups. You can form your group. Suppose there is hundred gentlemen in this neighborhood. We can sit down. If he has no time, they can sit down with family members. Everyone has got family. Everyone has got his wife, children or somebody else, servant. Sit down for half an hour and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty?
Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:
Prabhupāda: We have to introduce. That is our movement.
Justin Murphy: Sure, yes, I can see that. But why aren't people doing it? Why aren't more people? In Perth, in this city, why aren't more doing it? I'll tell you one reason. And it is because Austra...
Prabhupāda: The people should be educated that "If you do not perform this yajña, you will suffer."
Justin Murphy: But, of course, there are conflicting educations, aren't there?
Prabhupāda: Whatever they may be. What is the wrong there, that, if we sit down together and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra without any loss of our factory or work? But if there is some gain, why not try it?
Justin Murphy: A delightful idea, a beautiful idea, and a very simple-sounding idea. How about, however, the Anglicans, the Roman Catholics, who are bound in this...
Prabhupāda: No, what is the... No, Roman Catholics... We don't say that Roman Catholics cannot perform yajña. We say that you chant the holy name of God. So Roman Catholics they have God or not, no God?
Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:
Justin Murphy: Oh, yes, but we also have many... I'm nowhere near what you're saying is a first-class. I'm talking about some of our latter-day philosophers, and Bertrand Russell is a person, for example, who, for gentleness, sobriety, and thought, whom I admire very much. And he has attained that himself. He hasn't been... He was certainly, as we all must be, surely, trained to begin with. But then it's a process of individual thought.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. No, no, no. But that's all right. Just like we have got different institution—this is for educating engineers, this is for educating medical man, this is for educating geographer—as there are different departments.
Justin Murphy: Oh, sure, to begin with, and so there must be.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, there must be a department to train first-class men. That is required.
Justin Murphy: We don't have them in our universities.
Prabhupāda: So therefore it is chaotic, no first-class men, all third class, fourth class.
Room Conversation with Ganesa dasa's Mother and Sister -- May 14, 1975, Perth:
Mother: But you'll always have disease and you'll always have old age.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but just like you are diseased, so all the problems are there. But when you become cured of the disease, then there is no more problem. Similarly, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means training people how to go back to home, back to Godhead. And as soon as he is educated to go back to home, back to Godhead, then all problems solved.
Room Conversation with Ganesa dasa's Mother and Sister -- May 14, 1975, Perth:
Prabhupāda: Belief is no good. I believe. You may believe something wrong. That is not... You must know the fact. That is wanted.
Mother: But a person knows if they're doing wrong always.
Prabhupāda: If you are educated in a wrong way, then you will do wrong.
Mother: But I mean a person knows when they're doing wrong. They know when they're doing evil.
Prabhupāda: No, they cannot understand. They are sometimes doing wrong thing as right thing. So many wrong things they are doing. One has to suffer. Nature will not excuse. (Pause)
Gaṇeśa: You have some more questions to ask Śrīla Prabhupāda? I think they have finished, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Give them prasādam.
Morning Walk -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:
Madhudviṣa: ...when you die, you are big.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Madhudviṣa: So that is progression. So how can they say that progression will stop?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is another foolishness to say like that, that with the body everything is finished. Where it is finished? (break) ...supposed to be educated, advanced in civilization, and this simple truth they cannot understand. Mūḍha. Where is finishing? Why you are trying to live for many years? Why don't you welcome death? (devotees begin kīrtana) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)
Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:
Jesuit: It satisfies the longing in the heart one has for God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now you can ask them. They will inform, that nobody of them, either Hindu or Christian, Indian... They are coming all from Christian group or Jewish group. So they are all educated boys. So there is no question of bluffing them. Young boys, they can earn money like anything, especially in America. But they have given everything. They are very respectable father's son. But they have given up...
Jesuit: The thing is like Augustine said, that "The heart is restless until it rests in You, our God." And I think that's...
Prabhupāda: No, I don't teach them that I am God. I never taught. I always teach them I am servant of God, you are also servant. And they accept it. Actually that is our position. This is bluff. When somebody says "I am God," that is bluff, cheating. We protest very vehemently against the declaration that "I am God." No. Nobody can become God. God is one.
Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: In Calcutta. I was educated in a college. My professors were all Europeans.
Dr Copeland: Which college?
Prabhupāda: Scottish Churches' College. You know that? In our time Dr. Watt, he was principal. And I was student of philosophy of Dr. W. S. Urquhart. He was my professor. And our English professor was Mr. Cameron,(?) Mr. Scrimgeour, Mr. Warren. And I was student of economics also. One Mr. Keith, he was also... All our professors were Scotsmen, Englishmen.
Dr. Copeland: And after you left the college, were you employed?
Prabhupāda: Yes, I was appointed manager of a very big laboratory, Dr. Bose's laboratory.
Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:
Dr. Copeland: Session will end in October and start again in March. But if when you come back in January, they tell me that you're here, I'll come talk to you again if you want to talk to me again.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You are always welcome. Educated man like you is welcome.
Dr. Copeland: Oh, yes. (laughs) Keep up the good humor. (Devotees laugh)
Prabhupāda: Jaya.
Dr. Copeland: Namaskāra.
Prabhupāda: Somebody else was to come?
Madhudviṣa: I think one more was to come. (Devotees talk amongst themselves in background)
Śrutakīrti: So he "had to run."
Madhudviṣa: He said at the end, "I am done." (laughs)
Prabhupāda: I am done?
Madhudviṣa: Yeah, he said, "I am done."
Morning Walk -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: This is going on. The rascals, they want to enjoy life without Kṛṣṇa. The gopīs are dancing with Kṛṣṇa; the dancing is here also, ball dance. Why they do not get any pleasure? Without Kṛṣṇa. You dance with Kṛṣṇa, you get real pleasure. So our business is to educate people that "Everything is Kṛṣṇa. You try to understand." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You are trying to forget Kṛṣṇa. That is your argument. Just like the materialistic person argue, "Why shall I do this? Why shall I go to Kṛṣṇa?" They argue simply this. Actually, there cannot exist anything without Kṛṣṇa. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam, Kṛṣṇa says. "All this, whatever you see, that is My expansion of energy. Everything is resting on Me." Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni (BG 9.4). "Everything is on Me." Nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ. By bhakti-yoga gradually he develops that everything—vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19)—everything is Kṛṣṇa. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That mahātmā is very rare who can see everywhere Kṛṣṇa.
Morning Walk -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:
Devotee 7: Can a person go back to a spiritual planet...
Prabhupāda: No, there is no more init... Initiation here required when the living entity is in darkness. Just like uneducated person requires to go to school. One who is educated, in his full knowledge, he doesn't go.
Madhudviṣa: The question was, Prabhupāda, is it possible for a person to return to the spiritual world without taking initiation from a bona fide spiritual master?
Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible. Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī said, ā dau gurv-āśrayam. First business is to accept spiritual master. Ā dau gurv-āśrayam. Who will train him? He is already fool, rascal. He must be trained up. So he must be trained up by the representative of Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee 9: Is second initiation necessary, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Second or first only.
Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: Everything within the temple should be kept very, very neat and clean. And the more you keep the temple neat and clean, you will be neat and clean within your heart. And then your understanding will be very easy. We cannot understand Kṛṣṇa because our heart is piled up with many garbages. That we have to cleanse. Then it will be easy to understand Kṛṣṇa. So I am very much pleased that we have secured this nice building. Keep it very neat and clean and go on chanting. You have got nice place for chanting and dancing. And utilize the open land for growing flower. In this way make this center unique. And it is a recognized building. If people understand that this building is now a temple and very nicely kept, people will come and see. So keep yourself always in touch with the principles and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and those who are... All of you, I think, you are educated. Read books. Try to understand the philosophy. Then your life is successful. Thank you very much for your coming.
Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: Because they are animal. They are educated like animal.
Australian devotee 2: So it is the fault of the education.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is the responsibility of the government, guardians, father. They do not give them proper education. Therefore Bhāgavata says, "If you cannot give proper education to your children, then don't marry. Don't become father." That is contraceptive. If you are unable to give... What is that? Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. Samupeta-mṛtyum: this body means you have accepted death. This body means, material body. So one should not become a father if he cannot stop the death of his son. That is the Vedic injunction. "Don't become a father, don't become a mother, if you cannot train your children so that he may be saved from this impending death." That is the instruction. And who is doing that? Their philosophy is: "After death everything is finished. I will be finished. My child will be finished. That's all." (break)
Australian devotee 2: ...Śrīla Prabhupāda, they can teach these people how to educate the youngsters. Is this right?
Prabhupāda: Therefore so many books.
Radio Interview -- May 25, 1975, Fiji:
Prabhupāda: And they are big, big educationist. Anyway, there is no such department which deals with the transmigration of the soul. That is the defect of the modern civilization. So there is transmigration of the soul. By evolution, by transmigration of the soul, we have come to this human form of life. Now here we have to decide again. Because we are part and parcel of God, a small particle of the same quality... So God is fully independent. We have got also a little independence. So God does not interfere with our independence. Now here we have to decide which way again we shall go. We have come by the evolution, by nature's way. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Nature has brought us and given us a chance, whether we shall go to our original spiritual life or we shall remain in this material world by changing body one after another. That is to be decided. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is educating people that "Stop your so-called material advancement. You come again, back to home, back to Godhead."
Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:
Yogi Bhajan: There are a lot of misunderstanding and misconceptions given against each other.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Misconception... Just like you have got a body; I have got a body. If I say, "No, I don't like you "... If I say, "I don't like you"... Naturally, when we see superficially, then this tendency will go on. When you see inside, introspectively, then there will be equality. That requires education. So...
Yogi Bhajan: All right, come and educate.
Prabhupāda: (Chuckling) But that education is there, the beginning, in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Yogi Bhajan: No, you are shy.
Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā and the education is there, that, immediately Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Asmin dehe, there is the soul. This is the beginning of education. But there are many learned scholars; they do not believe in the soul. That is the difficulty. They do not believe. A big, big professor.... I have been in Moscow. Professor Kotovsky, he said, "No, there is no soul. After this finishing of the body, everything is finished."
Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:
Prabhupāda: Our difficulty is that we don't agree. If I say, "Come here. Be educated," and if you don't agree, "No, no. I don't want," then how you can be educated? One must agree what God says. They will say, "I believe. We believe." What is the "I believe, we believe"? If you want to become first-class man, then this is the formula: Control your mind, control your senses, be fully in knowledge. Practically apply knowledge in life. So this is first class. Then the second-class men, you see, what is that? Kṣatriya.
Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. that is already admitted by educated class. Therefore they are becoming attracted.
Dr. Gerson: But there are still many who aren't familiar with the movement and I hope to familiarize them.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is nice. Yes. But I say that even there is something wrong, it is not impediment. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). Even if you find in devotee something bad, and his behavior is not in the standard, but because he is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has no other business, he is sādhu. Api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). He is sādhu. He is saintly man. Even if you find some defect in his character, because he is sticking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is saintly. Kṛṣṇa says. How is that, a saintly man has got some this bad character? So that answer is next verse.
Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: If he does not become inquisitive how to control the mind, he is not even a human being. A dog never inquires. A dog knows that "When I bark, people become disturbed." He'll never ask, "How to control this barking habit?" Because he is dog, he cannot do that. A human being can know that "People hates me. I do something wrong. How to control my mind?" That is human being. That is the difference between human being and dog. Therefore Vedic injunction is "Go and inquire. You have got this human form of life." Athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now, this is the time for inquiring about the soul." Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). If you want to understand this science, then go to proper guru and take lessons from him. The same thing, as we instruct our children: "If you want to be educated in higher status of life, go to school, go to college, take lesson." That is human society. The dog's father will never ask the dog child, "Go to school." No. They are dogs.
Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: That I say, that you have to educated. How these people are convinced about the soul? They have been educated by practice and by knowledge. Everything has to be learned by being educated. And therefore the Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārtham, "In order to know that science," gurum eva abhigacchet, "you must go to guru, teacher." So the answer is that you must go to the teacher who can teach you how the soul is there.
Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: That is the proof, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). When the body is finished, no more working, the soul is there, he has accepted another body. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Those who are educated, sober they are not surprised. Those who are not educated, they are surprised. Therefore this very word is used, dhīras tatra na muhyati. Dhīra means one who is sober by education. He knows the soul has now left this body. He has accepted another body. That is dhīra. He knows by education. Therefore this very word... Find out.
- dehino 'smin yathā dehe
- kaumāraṁ yauvanam jara
- tatha dehāntara-prāptir
- dhīras tatra na muhyati
- (BG 2.13)
Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: That means they have created thieves and rogues. Therefore they are suspicious. Nowadays in the airport, everyone is searched. Then it is now taken for granted that all of them are cheats. So what is the value of this education if all of them are cheats? There is no discrimination, "Now, here is a educated professor, Dr. Ph.D., he cannot be searched." No, he will be also searched-because, "You may be Ph.D., but we know you are a cheat." (laughter) Is not the conclusion? Will he be excused if he says, "Oh, I am Ph.D." No, you must be searched. "You may be Ph.D., but you are a cheat." This is education. So what is the value of this education? And according to Vedic civilization, as soon as one is a brāhmaṇa, he is not within the jurisdiction of administration, immediately. The government has no right to check in his activities. Because he knows he is a brāhmaṇa. Four person, four or five, they are excused from the jurisdiction of law. The first is brāhmaṇa, the second is cow, the third is woman, and the fourth is old man, and fifth is the child. These five persons are not in the jurisdiction of law. No. Just like we have got practical. If a child comes and takes my spectacle away, he is not criminal. Everyone knows. But if a man takes my spectacle, then he is criminal. Similarly, a brāhmaṇa is never criminal. A cow is never criminal. These are the Vedic civilization. Woman, woman is also excused. No punishment for woman.
Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Now they have been trained up. What can be done? Woman is not trained up now to become a chaste wife. That is the defect of the civilization. Formerly, woman was trained up only to become, remain faithful to his husband, that's all. Nari-rūpaṁ pati-vrataḥ: "Woman's beauty is how she is faithful to her husband." That's all. That is beauty, not personal beauty. Vidyā rūpaṁ kurupanam: "A black man or ugly man, if he is educated, that is his beauty." Kokilānāṁ svaro rūpaṁ. Kokila, the cuckoo is just like a crow, but everyone likes because his voice is so sweet. Kokilānāṁ svaro rūpaṁ vidyā rūpaṁ kurupanam nari-rūpaṁ pati-vratam. Like that, he has given a list. These are the beauty. If a woman is trained up not to talk with any other man except her husband, that is her beauty. That enhances the beauty and prestige. This is Vedic knowledge.
Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Unmotivated means "Oh, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, service of Kṛṣṇa, is so nice. Let me begin immediately." Now, "What will be the result? What shall I gain? What is the profit?" No such consideration. "Begin immediately." And if you begin in that way, there is no impediment. Apratihatā. It is so nice thing. In the material world, if you want to begin some work, then you require some preliminary qualification. It doesn't require any preliminary qualification. Whatever qualification you have got, that is sufficient. Begin. And nobody can say, "Oh, I am not educated," "I am not rich," or "I am not born of a high family." There are so many. No. These things are not impediments. Educated or uneducated, culture or no culture, it doesn't matter. You can begin immediately. The Indian culture was checked by the caste brāhmaṇas, that "This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is meant for the Hindus." Therefore it was not spread. Such a great thing, philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā, remained covered because they thought it is meant for the Hindus, for the Indians, or those who came out of India, they misinterpreted in a rubbish way. And now it is being presented as it is, it is becoming effective. Therefore apratihatā: nothing material can check its progress. Unless one voluntarily refuses it, there is no checking. Some other professor was to come?
Brahmānanda: Yes, but he did not come.
Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: That is my question. (break) Just like in India, for higher technological knowledge, they come to foreign countries. So for knowledge, we can take it from anywhere. There should not be sectarianism, "Oh, why shall I take knowledge from here and there?" Wherever knowledge is available, we should take it. That is the real position of seeker of knowledge. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says, nīcād apy uttamā vidyā strī-ratnaṁ duṣkulād api. He says, viṣād apy amṛtaṁ grāhyam. Viṣa, viṣa means poison. "In the pot of poison, if there is little nectar in, take it." Viṣād apy amṛtaṁ grāhyam. Poison is not to be touched, but if there is little nectar in, take it. And amedhyād api kāñcanam: "And in a filthy place there is gold. Take it." Not that gold has been polluted because it is in the filthy place. If there is gold in the filthy place, don't hesitate. Take it. And nīcād apy uttamā vidyā. Generally, people used to take education from brāhmaṇa. So Cāṇakya Paṇḍita advises that "If there is education, actual education, even he is a lower class man, śūdra or caṇḍāla, take it. Accept him as master." And nīcād apy uttamā vidyā. Nīcād apy uttamā vidyā strī-ratnaṁ duṣkulād api. And in India, according to Vedic civilization, the marriage is done after seeing the family tradition very scrutinizingly. So here it is advised that duṣkulād api, "In a abominable family, if there is nice girl, educated, beautiful, accept her. Accept her." Nīcād apy uttamā vidyā strī-ratnam. Ratnam means jewel. Wife, she is like jewel although born of a low family, accept. So anything very good, even it is available from a place which is not desirable, one should accept it. So if you are actually seeking after God, so here is God available from Vedic literature. Why don't you take it? Why you should refuse it? That is not very good sign.
Morning Walk -- June 27, 1975, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: You are capable. I know that. He is very capable. You know how to do business, yes. In India an educated man and big, big government officers, lawyers, they will purchase. We do not approach them. School, colleges, library, universities. After all, English language is still current in India. It is not stopped. So they will like to read their own literature in English. They made vigorous propaganda to replace English by Hindi. That has failed. That has failed. No gentleman cares to learn Hindi. (chuckles) At least I never cared. I know Hindi, not by diverting my attention, no. That is very important, no. Automatically whatever I learned, that's all. I am not in favor of that Hindi. Especially in South India, they are all... So by appointing some professional men also.
Morning Walk -- June 27, 1975, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Cerebrum, yes. So intelligence becomes more more who has got more cerebrum. So psychologically, it is... A very intelligent man has got sixty-four ounce cerebrum. And woman, even she is very intelligent, is not more than thirty-four ounce. Therefore we don't find, amongst women, any big scientist. It is impossible. Don't be angry. (laughter) And these rascals giving equal rights. Just see. And Vedic civilization: "No, they should be protected." The woman should be protected by the father, by the husband, and by elderly sons. No independence. (break) ...she is my sister. She is old, about three years less than me, but she has got sons. She is very happy moving, protected by the sons. Even Kuntī, such intelligent woman, such educated and..., she also kept herself under her sons, the Pāṇḍavas. The Pāṇḍavas lost the game. They were banished, but Kuntī was not banished. But she said, "Then how shall I...? I must go with my sons." Sītā, wife of Lord Rāmacandra. So Rāmacandra was ordered by His father, "My dear son, You have to go forest for fourteen years." Sītā was not ordered. But she voluntarily followed.
Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:
Prabhupāda: It is not a problem. Just like there is disease, and there is remedy also. And as much as the disease is chronic, the remedy is also costly. So in the western countries—do not mind—they are not trying to educate first-class men, and that is the difficulty. This advancement, technical knowledge, to have nice motor cars or big, big buildings, highways, this is very good, but this is not the aim of life.
Mayor: No, material things should not be.
Prabhupāda: They are missing the aim of life. That is the... The aim of life is, an..., not according to Vedic, but anyone, the aim of life is how to realize God. That is aim. In the animal life or in other lives less important than the human being there is no question of God realization. In the human life, the civilized human life, there is religion. It doesn't matter whether one is Christian or a Hindu or a Muslim or a Buddhist. These are the principle religions of the world. So any civilized man must be inquisitive to know what is the original source of everything. That philosophy is there.
Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:
Prabhupāda: So they were habituated to all... Because that is a system in the European, American life. But now they are free. That is Professor Judah's remark in his letter. Have you got that? Yes. He has written one book, Hare Kṛṣṇa and Counterculture, about our movement. He has read all our books. Here are, you have shown all these books? So he appreciates, many gentlemen appreciate, even the priestly class, they also appreciate. So this is a movement which is trying to create at least a section to become first-class. The first-class man does not mean that he is nicely dressed or very rich or very opulent. Generally, of course, a first-class man means good parentage, good education, good looking and nicely rich. That is the standard. But... That may be first-class position, but first-class man is different. First-class man means he is self-controlled, in the mind he is undisturbed, he is truthful, he is very clean, inside and outside, he is very simple, tolerant, full of knowledge, practical application of knowledge, and believe in God. This is first-class man. There is no mention that he is rich, he is beautiful, bodily, or he is educated. Educated, this is a result of education. Real education means that he is self controlled. Controlling the mind, controlling the senses, truthful. He will speak truth in any circumstances.
Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:
Prabhupāda: And to serve under somebody, that is śūdra. So at the present moment people are being educated to serve under somebody. Technology, one is very expert in some particular line of technology, say, computer machine... You know how to operate. It is a big qualification. But unless he gets a job under some big establishment, he is useless. He cannot live independently. The first-class man will live independently. The second-class man also will live independently. And the third-class men, they will also live independently. And those who cannot live independently, they are fourth-class men. So at the present moment we are simply creating fourth-class men. So fourth-class men, they are prone to be degraded. If you don't raise them to become first-class, they must degrade. So that is the position of the present civilization. They are creating all fourth-class men, and gradually they are degrading. So now you should take up very seriously how you can create some first-class men. First-class, second-class, third-class also.
Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:
Lt. Mozee: Any infraction against one person by another person. Any trampling on the rights of one person by another person can be a crime or should be a crime.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Our definition is the same in the Upaniṣad, that everything belongs to God. As you think everything belongs to the state, we think everything belongs to God. So you can utilize your possession, what is allotted to you. Don't encroach upon others. So people are not thinking in that way. First beginning is that you Americans, you are thinking this America land is your, although two hundred years ago it was not your. You have come from other parts of the world. Now you are claiming it is your land. But actually it is God's land. So God's land belongs to everyone. Everyone is God's children. That is our broad conception. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: (ISO 1) "Everything belongs to God." So people have no conception of God. Everyone is practically godless. Therefore they should be educated about God. Just like the Communists. They are educating godlessness. Similarly... Just like in America they say, your government says, "We trust in God." Is it not?
Devotee: Yes.
Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Give them prasādam. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (Indian man): How do you advise Indians who are here and who have fallen to some extent in the materialistic world? They did not leave... Basically, they left their homes, most of them, to educate themselves. When they came here, they educated themselves, and they don't want to go back. Basically, they have fallen into the materialistic world. What advice you render them so that they get out of these clutches and go back and serve here or in the country but they should be devotional to the Almighty God?
Prabhupāda: So there is no question of here and there. You can become advanced in spiritual life anywhere if you follow the principles. That we are teaching. We are opening centers all over the world. You take the advantage of our teaching, our books, our center. Then it will be all right. They are following, these Europeans and American boys. They are young boys. They are giving up meat-eating. Do you give up meat-eating? Why Indians, you should learn meat-eating? They are giving up, and you are learning to eat meat. This is the lesson, that these foreigners, they were accustomed to eat meat from the childhood, they are giving up, and you are eating meat. This is the instruction. Indians are drinking. They are giving up drinking.
Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:
Guest (Indian man): Swamiji, I'll ask one last question. What advice do you give to a man of family? I am taking my case, I have four children, and they are, their ages, between six and thirteen. I have to see that they grow up nice, I have to see that they educate themself so that they are as according to you... I don't know. I don't call myself first-class, second-class, third-class. As you said, there are no first-class men, second-class men. But then how, apart from making them first class that they should follow the religious...?
Prabhupāda: No, no, if you become first-class, and they will follow you. You remain last-class, and how you can train your first-class? (laughter) In the śāstra it is said, "Unless you can create first-class man, don't beget children." Pitā na sa syāj janani na sa syād gurur na sa syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. It is the duty of the father to raise his children first-class. Otherwise he should not become a father. That is contraceptive. Just like Vasudeva and Devakī. Formerly they were Vasus and they were asked by Brahmā to create progeny. So the husband and wife, they practiced austerities very severely. So then God appeared before them: "What do you want?" And they said that "We can enter into family life provided You become our son." No, "If we get a son like you." Then God said, "Where is second person like Me? So I shall become your son." Then, in next life, Devakī got Kṛṣṇa as his child.
Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:
Jayatīrtha: So the wars and the crime are a direct result of the cow slaughter.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. It is a wholesale reaction. All these crises are taking place. They are killing their own child. Own child means that child is criminal; therefore it is being killed within the womb. Nature will take action. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). You are not independent. So if you work independently, then you will have to suffer. The law of nature is there. You cannot avoid it. If you infect some disease, you must suffer from the disease. You cannot avoid it. This is the law of nature. Law of nature is working in such a way that as you are infecting... Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Find out this verse. Why there are varieties of life. One is tree, one is cat, one is dog, one is human being, one is blind, one is lame, one is educated, one is foolish—why? Why the difference, varieties? And that is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya: "As you are infecting the modes of material nature, you are getting your birth." Otherwise, how you can explain by nature there are so many varieties of life, 8,400,000 species of life?
Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:
Prabhupāda: This is nonsense, to give free choice to the child. This is nonsense. Child should be protected. That is intelligence. That is the wrong type of consciousness. According to Vedic civilization, a child, a woman, a brāhmaṇa, a cow, and an old man they should be given protection, not freedom, but protection.
Jayatīrtha: At the same time in that Time article it discussed that about fifty percent of the crime was done by children under eighteen and people are afraid even to go to the schools.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are not educated properly. Not only that they have given photograph: the children take small..., yes, weapon, knife. And examination is held under police vigilance. This is the education.
Mrs. Wax: Some of us are parents of devotees and when you came to America nine years ago, eight years ago...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mrs. Wax: ...some young people were attracted to the message and responded and joined Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Is there a special reason? What explanation do you have why some...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. The special reason was... That was published in one paper, Voice East. What is that?
Devotees: Village Voice.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They wrote a very big article that "We thought God is dead but Swamiji has brought God in his kīrtana." They wrote this article. They found God's presence in Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. This Brahmānanda, he was attracted first.
Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:
Prabhupāda: Upendra. You can take it. So try to understand this movement and write more and more articles and educate your countrymen. That will be very nice.
Mrs. Wax: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mrs. Wax: My son is educating me. That's what you said.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Mrs. Wax: You said that's the proper...
Prabhupāda: Yes, son should be so nicely educated that he can teach his mother also. That is nice. Some of the parents of my disciples, they come to congratulate, give me thanks. And some of them to curse me (laughter), that "You have spoiled our children." (laughing) Brahmānanda's mother is very angry. (laughter)
Morning Walk -- July 8, 1975, Chicago:
Sudāmā: And they even indicate, Prabhupāda, on the advertisements that smoking is hazardous for the health.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...for money, the money which will push them to hell. This is their intelligence. We have to give them intelligence, open their eyes. (break) ...angry first of all because mūrkhāyo 'padeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye: "If you give good intelligence to the fools and rascals, they will be angry." But still, you have to do it. Just like when Nityānanda Prabhu went to Jagāi-Mādhāi to deliver them, they became angry and injured. So that is preacher. These rascals will be angry, will sometimes do harm to you, and still, you have to do it. That is preaching. Are you understanding what is preaching? Yes. You have to prepare like that. At all risk you have to preach. (break) ...world is full of rascals, and you have to educate them. So according to one's capacity let them preach, prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā. But everyone can preach to some extent. There is no hindrance.
Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:
Prabhupāda: Logic is meant for learned man, and uneducated man, they want to force, "Yes, you must do it." With point of revolver, "You must do it." And educated man, they argue on logic. That is the difference. (break) ...queens of Kṛṣṇa, they are giving statement as maidservant of Kṛṣṇa. You have read that portion? When there was talk between Kuntī and queens of Kṛṣṇa, the queens presented themself as maidservant of Kṛṣṇa.
Harikeśa: The men have become the servants of the women.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Harikeśa: Women's liberation has become successful because man is now the servant of woman.
Prabhupāda: It is not successful. That I was pointing out. It has caused the disaster because the whole women become dependent on the welfare gift of the government, and the government has to raise tax heavily for this purpose. The tax is given by the general public, but it is going for one individual person, and I have heard that government is embarrassed. They are now making enquiry about the welfare gifts.
Morning Walk -- July 10, 1975, Chicago:
Prabhupāda: ...in the Dallas there is no problem. Educate the girls how to become faithful, chaste wife and how to cook nicely. Let them learn varieties of cooking. Is very difficult? These two qualifications, apart from Kṛṣṇa consciousness, materially they should learn. There are many stories, Nala-Damayantī, then Pārvatī, Sītā, five chaste women in the history. They should read their life. And by fifteenth, sixteenth year they should be married. And if they are qualified, it will be not difficult to find out a nice husband. Here the boys, they do not want to marry because they are not very much inclined to marry unchaste wife. They know it, that "I shall marry a girl, she is unchaste." What do you think?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:
Prabhupāda: (laughs) This is all physiological. And we have seen, studied, that any big man of the world, behind that big man is either a strong mother or a strong wife. That is the general statistics. And Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says, mātā yasya gṛhe nāsti bharyā cāpriya-vādinī. If there is no mother at home and the wife is not very suitable, does not speak very nicely with husband, disrespectful, then he is recommended to leave home and go to the forest. Araṇyam tena gantavyaṁ yathāraṇyam tathā gṛham. Such person should immediately leave home and live in the forest because for him the forest and home is the same. Mātā yasya gṛhe nāsti bharyā cāpriya-vādinī. So women should be trained up to be very faithful and chaste. Then the life will be very happy. That is the only education for woman. And man should be educated how to become first-class man, a brāhmaṇa. Then the whole atmosphere will be very happy. The man, first-class man, brāhmaṇa, śamo damaḥ titikṣa, and woman, very faithful to such husband and chaste. Then the home is happy. And Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says another place, dampatyoḥ kalaho nāsti tatra śrīḥ svayam āgataḥ. "If there is no fight and disagreement between husband and wife, in that home the goddess of fortune automatically comes." They haven't got to search out where is goddess of fortune. She will come automatically. So that is now lacking. In most cases the husband and wife does not agree. And the other day I was reading in a paper that one woman in two weeks or three weeks...?
Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:
Prabhupāda: Dangerous means if one is not completely educated of self-realization he has the risk of degradation.
Prof. Hopkins: He has what?
Prabhupāda: The risk of degradation. Now I have got human form of body, I may degrade to animal. Because transmigration of the soul. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, tathā dehāntara prāptir, after death one gets another body. Now, what kind of body, that depends on his work. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). If he has done very nicely, in goodness, then he will be promoted to the higher planetary system. And if he has not done anything nice then he will remain here or he will be degraded to the lower planetary system.
Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:
Prabhupāda: This is not education. Vidyā dadhāti namratā. Educated means he is humble, gentle, sober, full of knowledge, practical application in life of knowledge, tolerant, control of the mind, control of the senses. That is education. What is this education?
Reporter (2): Are you attempting to form a college?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is my next attempt, that we shall educate according to classification. First-class, second-class, third-class, up to fourth-class. And then fifth-class, sixth-class, that is automatically there. So first-class men, there must be, at least in the society, an ideal class of men, and that is one who is trained up for controlling the mind, controlling the senses, very clean, truthful, tolerant, simplicity, full of knowledge, practical application of knowledge in life and full faith in God. This is first-class man.
Reporter (2): Will this college be quite different from our conventional college which has a great emphasis on athletics, I mean, football teams and...
Prabhupāda: Well, an education... A highly educated man does not require athletics. He requires good brain. Just like high-court judge, he requires a good brain, not a big gigantic body.
Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:
Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, sometimes philosophers make a distinction between knowledge and a belief. They say you can believe in something, but that doesn't mean that you necessarily know that thing which you believe in.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's fact. Therefore for the neophytes, less intelligent, they should believe. That is the only way, viśvāsa. So generally mass of people they are not so educated. They should believe.
Devotee (6): It says in the Bhāgavatam...
Prabhupāda: Therefore in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said that viśvāsa śabde śudṛdha niścaya. Śudṛdha niścaya, kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. Śraddhā, śraddhā. Śraddhā means faith. So in Christian science also, there is state, faithful. So this faith may be blind, but that is required.
Paramahaṁsa: Like a child.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śraddha-śabde viśvāsa. Śraddhā, faith, means believing firmly. That is śraddhā, or faith. There is no question, "Yes." Śraddha-śabde viśvāsa. Therefore we have to believe in the Vedas. Vedas also says like that. That example I give sometimes, that cow dung is stool. In one place it is said stool is impure; in another place it is said cow dung is pure. Now, one may argue, "What is this, contradiction?" But you have to believe it. That is Veda. And that is actually being done. So without faith, you cannot make advance. The skeptics, they have no faith. Therefore they are lost. You must have faith.
Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:
Prabhupāda: They will not come. Then he is condemned. Let them remain animals. If you don't go to school, there is no question of education. Where is the question of education? One must go to the school with faith that "I will be educated." That is required.
Yadubara: But if they take some prasādam, that will help them?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is your mercy, that you are... He is faithless rascal. "All right, you take prasādam. That will help you." Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: You may be pleased to know that Karttikeya... He said he's looking forward to going to Māyāpur.
Prabhupāda: Yes, otherwise why he is coming again? (chuckles) There must be some faith.
Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:
Devotee (1): Just like Nanda Mahārāja, he also had land. Nanda Mahārāja.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was therefore called king. But he was a vaiśya. He engaged his land for agriculture and cow keeping. And Kṛṣṇa took charge of the cows, the calves, although still calf, He, (indistinct) This is the system. He was going with the calves whole day, playing with the boys and taking care of the cows, in the evening come back. Mother then washes and bathes and gives nice food. And immediately goes to sleep. And Kṛṣṇa is clever. At night He goes to the gopīs. (laughter) Then Mother Yaśodā did not know, when she thought, "My good son is sleeping." And the gopīs also would come at a place and they'll dance. This is called life, childhood life. And when He was grown up, then He was brought to, I mean to say, Mathurā and He fought with His maternal uncle, killed him, and then His father Vasudeva, took care, sent Him to, what is that? Sāndīpani Muni. He was educated. He was learning every subject every day. Then He was taken to Dvārakā, married so many queens, and became king. In the Kṛṣṇa's life, He's always busy. Kṛṣṇa... You'll never find from the very beginning of His life He's busy killing Putana, Aghasura, Bakasura, and His friends, they are confident.
Morning Walk -- August 7, 1975, Toronto:
Prabhupāda: If we go village to village. The village people are still pure, at least not so polluted as the town people, or especially the so-called educated. (break) ...hari-kīrtana koro... (Bengali) We held this hari-kīrtana in Delhi, Calcutta, Bombay. Oh, at least fifteen to thirty thousand people were daily... Even from the office with coats and pants, they are dancing. And they asked me, "Swamiji, continue it." (break)
Indian Man (2): I traveled all over India so many years, place to place, but I found the Gujarati is one of the best where the people have there some natural-born Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's fact. Everywhere—Gujaratis, Marwaris, Punjabis—more or less, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there.
Morning Walk -- August 7, 1975, Toronto:
Indian Man (2): In Hardwar I have been recently, and I met one of my uncle's wife. My uncle's father was a very big mahanta. He was having quite in a big numbers, maybe in lakhs or you can say million, half million to million disciples. And what he was using in whole life, the disciple's money, for his own pleasure or his wife and children's. And at the end of it he took his sannyāsa. Only just few years after that, he died. And I found there in a lot of mahantas, they have a temples, they are using there lot of jewels, gold, and money, and they have a business, like that. And thousand of educated people visit, and they believe that this is all they are doing, show off, and there is no God. This is bewildering everybody's mind. Is there any... we have some system that we can conquer those people by means to... Those young generation of their children, they really looking for the truth. I met one mahanta, his son. He is very educated boy. He met impersonalist leader, and he misguided, and they are leading their life just like a, you can say, I don't want to use bad word, like pigs. They are eating and sleeping and mating, same as there are other people doing.
Prabhupāda: Well, this is want of knowledge, jñānam.
Morning Walk -- August 28, 1975, Vrndavana:
Member: If you please, I have no objections.
Prabhupāda: No. We want many educated men to understand this philosophy and preach. People are... Whole world, they are in ignorance—the value of life. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). They are accepting this body as self. The whole trouble is there. So-called scientist, philosopher—everyone is thinking, "I am this body," and therefore there is so much trouble. They do not know what he is and what is his goal of life, how life should be molded. No knowledge. Therefore vigorous preaching is required. Our Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is that, that all people are suffering. There is little knowledge in India. So anyone who has taken his birth in India, he should make his life perfect by studying this Vedic literature and then spread the knowledge all over the world because they are in ignorance. Here also now they are ignorant. They do not know what is the value of life, thinking like cats and dogs. What is your idea about the value of life?
Member: Unless it is very towards God, it is useless.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Morning Walk -- August 29, 1975, Vrndavana:
Akṣayānanda: That means there is no work.
Prabhupāda: But no educated man, at least in India, is interested any more with philosophy and preaching. No Indian. (Aside) Jaya. (break)
Akṣayānanda: ...preach more, then that would help? Because he was previously a principal of a school.
Prabhupāda: No, how he is preaching? Have you heard? No, you cannot understand in Hindi.
Akṣayānanda: Hindi.
Prabhupāda: Anyone?
Dhanañjaya: We've been told he preaches nicely.
Prabhupāda: I have told him that "You simply read my books and reproduce it. That's all. That will be preaching."
Morning Walk -- August 29, 1975, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: So if... You can make it cheaper. Instead of three rupees, you can make it two rupees.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Like we can have four or five of your lectures for one small book for one rupees, fifty paisa, or one rupee and... If somebody can't afford two rupees... At the present moment we are selling your Back to Godhead for two rupees. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...educated, he appreciate it.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He wants to become your disciple.
Akṣayānanda: What if the Hindi Back to Godhead was in newspaper form? Would that be lowering the standard?
Brahmānanda: Then they'd throw it away.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You can't have a color picture then.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Akṣayānanda: If it was in newspaper form, that would be lowering the standard too much, the Hindi Back to Godhead. Then they will throw it away?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Like we have those...
Prabhupāda: No. We must have quality. Our Godbrothers, they publish tenth-quality papers. Nobody... Nobody cares.
Morning Walk -- September 27, 1975, Ahmedabad:
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, certainly. Then you will be sukhī. (Hindi) This is the first instruction: dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). (Hindi) This is the first instruction. (Hindi) This is the first to be given up in order to understand spiritual knowledge. (Hindi) So how you can expect tranquillity and peacefulness if the society is conducted by go-khara? This is the defect. (Hindi) This is the rule, nature's law. And if it is a fact... It is a fact. You believe or not believe; that is a different thing. (Hindi) Professor Kotovsky... (break) "Swamiji, after death, everything is finished." He said like that. And he is a big professor of Indology. (Hindi) ...sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). He is a professor. (Hindi) Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)
- harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam
- kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
- (CC Adi 17.21)
(Hindi) You cannot do anything. You cannot be educated at home. You must go to the teacher. (Hindi) And they are being eulogized.
Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:
Prabhupāda: That is real scientist. These are false scientists.
- idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā
- sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ
- avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito
- yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam
- (SB 1.5.22)
Actually the Supreme Lord is the source of everything. So if one is actually scientist, by his scientific explanation he will point out, "Here is the cause of all causes." By scientific knowledge he will point out that God is the origin of everything. Then his scientific study is perfect. But these rascals, they are doing the opposite, that "There is no need of God. Science is everything," although it is imperfect. That is their fault. Therefore they are rogues. They cannot prove; still, they will insist, "Yes, we shall do. We are trying," like that, and misleading people. General people, they are rascal and fools. If you mislead them, they will be misled. Śūdra, mūḍhas. They are to be educated. Instead of educating them, they are making them more and more fools and rascals. (break) There is utility, but they have no utility. There is some service; they carry some passengers. They are carried nowhere. Simply they mislead.
Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:
Brahmānanda: Why are we evil?
Prabhupāda: No, God says that "You become devotee of Me." You do not become. That is your fault. Therefore you must... Just like government does not say that you become criminal. Government says, "You become educated. You become high-court judge, become big officer." Why you become criminal, pickpocket? Does government give any education for becoming pickpocket? Hm? Is there any institution how to steal, how to become pickpocket? (laughter) Then why do you become? Just see. (break) ...eatables you can collect, and I shall show you how to cook in the cooker. One boy. You also see, because nobody will go there.
Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is it possible to take a mass of crowlike people and elevate them?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Human beings, after all, they are. They can be educated. That is the opportunity of human life, that he can be educated. The cats and dogs cannot. (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Wake up in the morning and get drunk.
Cyavana: They're watching. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...prominent. Red, yellow, and blue.
Indian man (1): Blue.
Cyavana: Violet is there.
Prabhupāda: No. The mix, you make a hundred color, but three colors are prominent. Then you mix. You mix the green and yellow..., er, blue and yellow; it become green. You mix the red and yellow; it will become orange. You mix the blue and red; it become violet. Like that. Originally three colors.
Press Conference -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:
Prabhupāda: So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are trying to eradicate this conception of life, bodily conception of life. The animals... An animal, he is also thinking, "I am dog," "I am cat," "I am cow," "I am ass," on account of this bodily concept of life. And if we human beings, we also remain in that bodily concept of life, then we are no better than the animals. So if we remain animals, there cannot be any peace. You bring a dozens of dogs, and if you keep them, they cannot be improved. They will remain as animal. They have no capacity. And if you ask them to live peacefully, it is not possible, because they are animals. Similarly, if we human beings, although we are not animals, but we are not being educated as human being, and therefore we remain as animal, so how there can be any peace? The animal eats; we eat. The animal sleeps; we sleep. The animals have sex life; we have got sex life. The animal defends; we also defend. So if we remain engaged only on the principles of four demands of body, then we remain animal. Our extra education requires that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul." And there is necessity of the soul. If we don't come to this platform, then we remain animals. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are trying to bring human being to the platform of spiritual consciousness or real human being.
Press Conference -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:
Prabhupāda: Necessity is that the human form of life is meant for advanced education. Unfortunately, they are being educated to live like animals. That is the mistake. So we want to correct this mistake.
Guest (2): But the spiritual organizations in India, all the spiritual teachings in India, have always put great emphasis on the fact that we are spiritual beings. So what was the necessity of creating another movement to say the same things?
Prabhupāda: No. We are... You have brought in the question of India. We are talking of the human society, so why you are bringing India? We are not talking about India only. Human being does not mean only Indian. You see, human being—all, outside India, inside India, everywhere. Wherever there is human being, they require this education. And it is the India's duty. Because India has got the opportunity to be spiritually advanced by the grace of learned, saintly persons, so they should first of all make their life perfect by taking education and distribute the knowledge throughout the whole world. That is India's mission.
Press Conference -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:
Prabhupāda: Show him. So they are appreciating. Appreciation has begun. Formerly they thought it is another edition of hippie movement, but now they are realizing it is not. A cultural. He has given the name of the book, Hare Kṛṣṇa and Counterculture. He is selling at the cost of twelve dollars; still, all high class, educated class, are purchasing.
Guest (3) (Indian man): Have you any program for the common people?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Common people have joined. Everyone. We are opening centers so that any common man from any caste, any creed, any nation, they can come and join.
Guest (2): My friend, perhaps you would like to do... I know you are doing some social work for...
Prabhupāda: This is the best social work. We are making animal into man. Already I have begun this, that because they are not educated how to become human being, so they remain animals. So this is the best social work, that we are bringing animals, two-legged animals, to real human being. If a human being is not properly educated, he remains an animal. So this is the proper education. Therefore we are bringing animals to human being.
Morning Walk -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:
Prabhupāda: (break) ...the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and educate your men on this island and be happy. There is good potency for this island.
Cyavana: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Don't be misled by the misleaders.
Cyavana: There are many of them here also.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...here in the understanding and help your people. That is good service.
Devotee (6): Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was asked a question by a man. He asked that Lord Śiva... Lord Rāmacandra was praying to Lord Śiva in the Rāmāyaṇa, and so he's taking Lord Śiva as being God. And we didn't have a clear answer to him.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Devotee (6): Could you just instruct us on this matter, why...
Prabhupāda: Lord Rāmacandra worshiped His devotees. Just like sometimes Kṛṣṇa worships Rādhārāṇī and touched His feet..., Her feet. That does not mean that Kṛṣṇa... Just like Kṛṣṇa was tolerating ear pulling by Mother Yaśodā. That does not mean that Mother Yaśodā is the Supreme. Hm? Kṛṣṇa was carrying the wooden shoes of Nanda Mahārāja. So that does not mean Nanda Mahārāja is greater than Kṛṣṇa.
Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:
Prabhupāda: English, economics, philosophy or..., mostly Scottish... I was educated in Scottish Churches College. The philosophy professor, Dr. W. S. Urquhart, he was very friendly to me, very kind, just like father. (break) ...he became vice chancellor. He was a very learned man, and very nice man, W. S. Urquhart.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Did they teach in English or Bengali?
Prabhupāda: No, no. English. Medium English.
Harikeśa: He was the one who said that the woman's brain is thirty-six ounces?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. (chuckles) Yes. No, not only he, another professor, Dr. Stephen (indistinct), he also said. That's a fact. Artificially they are trying. It has no meaning. But by agitation you can do anything. That is another thing. But that is not the fact. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). These are all Indian quarters? No.
Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:
Faill: The body is just a vehicle.
Prabhupāda: Yes, a covering. Vehicle also. Vehicle also. It is just like a machine. You go from one place to another on a motorcar machine. So this body is just like machine. On account of our material, conditional life we are thinking that "If I get this position, then I will be happy. If I get this position, I will be happy." We are creating mental concoction. But nothing will make us happy unless we come to our real position that "I am part and parcel of God. My business is to associate with God and help or cooperate with God." So that position we have to revive. And there are different types of vehicle, in the aquatic animals, then, I mean to say, plants. When the water is dried up, then vegetation comes. Then vegetation..., from vegetation, we... Trees and plants, they cannot move. Then we get little improvement; we can move, just like flies, insects, microbes, reptiles, and so many. So there are nine lakhs' forms of body within the water. Then two million types of bodies in vegetable, and then 1,100,000 species of life like microbes, germs, worms, insects. Then you come to the birds' life, three million different forms of. Then we come to beast life. That is also... Birds, I am sorry. Birds' life, one million, and then the beast life, three millions... Then we come to human form of body, and especially, gradually, we become civilized. So when we are civilized, then it is a chance to understand "what is God, what I am, what is our relationship." So if we don't take advantage of this civilized human life to understand God, and if we simply waste our life like cats and dogs, jumping and going here, then this is a great missing point. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate people not to miss this opportunity. You take full advantage on this human form of life and try to understand God and your relationship with God.
Morning Walk -- October 9, 1975, Durban:
Prabhupāda: That's all. That's all. Exploiting, that's all. This is their business. Just like Pakistan politicians, as soon as they cannot supply food, they declare war with India. The attention is diverted. Here also we have seen in the last war. When no man was joining, so in India, they created artificial famine. So for want of food they joined military. The government created a situation, purchased all the food grains and stocked. And when the price is very high the government opened controlled shop at high price. The people had no money; therefore they were obliged to join military. These polit..., demons, they are so dangerous, simply to keep their position they are doing all nefarious activities. Simply there is... Because they don't believe in the next birth, they are not afraid of sinful activities. They can do anything, "Whatever I like. There is no... This life is finished." That is the whole philosophy of the modern educated man, "There is no life." Big, big professors, they say like that, "There is no life after death." Therefore the Ārya-samājī rascal was: "That is Hindu belief." Why Hindu belief? Does the Mohammedan do not grow old? That answer he could not give. He is such a rascal. And at last he said that "I am God."
Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:
Prof. Olivier: I think about...around fifty-six cents or something. Somebody worked it out the other day.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But if one cannot distinguish between the car and the driver of the car, then he remains just like a child. A child may think that the car is running automatically, but that is foolishness. There is a driver. The child may not know, but when the child is grown-up, educated, still he does not know, then what is the meaning of his education?
Prof. Olivier: Now, this is the whole range of education in, well, as far as I am aware, in the whole of the Western world, and it covers primary and secondary and tertiary education. There is no place for an in-depth study of...well, of the soul and of the...
Prabhupāda: I talked with one big professor in Moscow. Perhaps you may know him. His name is Professor Kotovsky. He is the leader of Indology in Moscow. So I had a talk with him for about an hour. That talk was published in some paper. He says, "Swamiji, after this body is annihilated, everything is finished." So I was surprised. And he is holding a very responsible post, Indology, and known to be very good scholar. He was good scholar, but he also does not know.
Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...presenting as it is. In other words, let them draw their own conclusions. In other words, it's not simply that you’re trying to flatter some people that they know so much if they don’t know. You’re trying to educate, which means uplift. So simply we present the principles that are here and let the people become elevated, educated.
Prof. Olivier: Well, are your book lists in here?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prof. Olivier: And you’ve got another copy of this?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, you can keep this.
Prabhupāda: You can take.
Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :
Prabhupāda: Victim of European propaganda. He used to take "Anything Indian, bad. Anything Indian, bad." Not only he. Later on, all the so-called educated persons, they took it for granted that "Whatever is done in London, that is first-class, and whatever is Indian original, that is all bad." And they controlled the native princes. So many things. It is a big history, how they killed India's original culture. And then Hindu-Muslim riots, friction, fighting between Hindus and Muslims and dividing them.
Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Hate everything Indian.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That was the policy of education. So as soon as one became graduate and educated, he began to hate everything Indian original, and if he would get some clerk's business, service in some office, and his life is successful. That is still going on. So our car is here?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's just up here, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupāda: The brāhmaṇa became by caste brāhmaṇa. He will do everything nonsense and still, he remains a brāhmaṇa. But you can introduce the original Vedic culture in this Europe and America. You have understood. You can do it. By this material civilization they will never be happy, and it is risky. That they do not know. They do not believe in the transmigration of the soul. So irresponsibly… Or just like these elderly persons, how they are wasting time.
Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (entering car) Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Over the Muslims.
Prabhupāda: No, Britishers. The Muslims interfered. They wanted to propagate Islamism. Not all, some of them. But Britishers, although they were spreading Christianism, still, outwardly they were neutral about religious affairs. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura preferred that "Britishers are good. They do not interfere with our religious affair." So the idea is that India—you may say primitive or whatever you want—they wanted to make progress of the soul. They did not care who is ruling. So "Whatever tax is due we shall pay. Let us do our own business." That was India's attitude. They never thought in terms of nationalism. That was never educated. They were never educated.
Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:
Prabhupāda: So similarly, they are keeping men as dogs, and they want peace. How it is possible? They are educating general mass of people like cats and dogs, and they want peace. How it is possible? Make them first of all sober men. Then there is question of peace. (break) ...God consciousness, there is no question of peace. (break) If we know that the Supreme Lord, God, is our father, and He has..., everything belongs to Him, His property; therefore, instead of fighting, let us enjoy father's property peacefully. Then there will be peace. We are peacefully walking in this park because we know that it is commonwealth; it is government's property. I can walk, and the dog can also walk. Then there will be peace. And if I think, "No, it is my property," and you think your property, then there will be fight between you and me. So where is peace? Why you claim South Africa as your property? You are foreigner. You want peace. You are expert in keeping them subdued, the Africans. Otherwise, lawfully, it is African property. Why you have taken? Either you make it God's property, otherwise make it African property. You have no right to come here. If you say God's property, then everyone has got equal right. So they do not know what is the meaning of peace.
Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:
Prabhupāda: Pick out. And rest, who is neither brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya, then he is śūdra. That's all, very easy thing. If he cannot be trained up as engineer, then he remains as a common man. There is no force. This is the way of organizing society. There is no force. Śūdra is also required.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Now the incentive in modern society to become educated or to become engineer is money. What is the incentive in Vedic culture?
Prabhupāda: There is no need of money. The brāhmaṇa teaches everything free of charge. There is no question of money. Anyone can take education as a brāhmaṇa or a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya. There is no... Vaiśya doesn't require any education. Kṣatriyas require little. Brāhmaṇa require. But that is free. Just find out a brāhmaṇa guru and he will give you free education. That's all. This is society. Now, as soon as... At the present moment, as soon as one wants to be educated, he requires money. But in the Vedic society there is no question of money. Education free.
Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:
Harikeśa: We try to just make them Kṛṣṇa conscious, then it's automatic revolution.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Peaceful revolution. Other revolution will not stand. (break) (in car) ...perfect philosophy.
Harikeśa: Your method is also the perfect method, the books in the colleges and libraries, educated people and... Wonderful. Actually, you have set everything up to do this.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is spoken by Kṛṣṇa. I am simply putting them for modern man's understanding. That's all.
Harikeśa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Because they cannot understand, they think, "Dogmatic." It is not dogmatic. Most scientific.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But they're all dull-brained. Satisfied with a few scraps, work like dogs. Would you like to walk here, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Where?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This place is okay?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Morning Walk -- October 17, 1975, Johannesburg:
Prabhupāda: Because man is more intelligent. He can misuse his independence and intelligence, whereas animal cannot do that. He is not so intelligent. He has... That is the defect of the modern civilization. They have been described as duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina means he has got brain more intelligent than the animal, but the brain is being utilized for mischievous activities. Therefore they are called duṣkṛtina. Brain should be utilized for some benevolent work for the good of the living entities. But this brain, modern educated brain, is being misused for discovering something which is very dangerous to the human society. Therefore duṣkṛtina. And he is getting Nobel Prize because he has discovered this atomic weapon which is so dangerous, and he is glorified, "Oh, you have done so nice scientific discovery." What is that discovery? "That you can kill... Instead of one man with gun, you can kill one thousand men. Therefore you must be offered Nobel Prize." This is man's appreciation.
Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:
Prabhupāda: You have no position. You cannot take the Western culture properly, and you have lost your own culture. This is India's bad luck. They never taught Indians how to become actually Westernized. No. They were not giving them sufficient education. They were very much against higher education in the beginning. They wanted some clerks to conduct their activities, mercantile and government, some third-class, fourth-class men. Educated means ABCD, that's all. "They may know ABCD and take fifty, sixty rupees salary, and go home outside the town and come in daily passenger train, and work hard here and simply get your money so that you can maintain yourself." Nothing more. No education, no money, no industry. They were not taught properly. Here I see the factories, and the arrangement is so nice. But Indian factories, go—it is hell. Hell, simply hell. The Britishers exploited the Indians, and the capitalist class of India, they have learned how to exploit only.
Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:
Prabhupāda: These rascals, once they have done, "That's all right. You have got one child. Just take of." "No, again, again." Once you have committed sinful activities, killing the child in the womb, "All right, stop it now." "No, again." Tṛpyanti neha kṛpana. He's never satisfied. He knows that there is suffering behind this. Still, he'll not stop it. Therefore a sober man... A man should be educated to become sober, that "Let me tolerate this itching, that's all. I save so much trouble." This is knowledge. To become rascal and more rascal and more rascal and suffer, is that civilization? Simply to make the people rascal and suffer and commit suicide? Just tell them that he has created this civilization that suffer and become rascal. That's all. Unless you become rascal, how you will suffer? So keep them rascal and suffer. This is nature's arrangement, that "You living entity, you have forgotten Kṛṣṇa. All right, come under my control. Be rascal, remain rascal and suffer." Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā (BG 7.14). Why she is doing that? "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise you will go on suffering like this." This is the nature's way. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). But the rascal... Because he is rascal, he does not know that "I am under the full control of prakṛti, material nature, and her business is to keep me rascal and suffer." And they are advanced in education.
Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:
Prabhupāda: That is real education. We want that you learn from Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, you learn from Vyāsadeva, you learn from Nārada. But why you are learning from Freud, from Darwin and such rascals? Education means you should learn from a person who is authorized, who is without mistake, without illusion, who does not cheat, just like we are learning from Kṛṣṇa. That is education. And if you learn from rascals and fools, then what is that education? Education means to learn from the learned person. But if you are learning from a rascal and fool, then what is your education? Education required, but we require what is actually education, which is not cheating. But we are being educated, being cheated. We are working for this body, which I am not. Is that education or it is cheating? If you say, "I am taking my interest," I'll say "I am taking water; I wash daily my shirt and coat." And that, is that knowledge? And what about you? Your food? "I don't care for that. I wash my coat and shirt daily." Is that education? You keep yourself starving and you keep your coat and shirt very cleanse. Is that education? This is going on. Therefore people are restless. He is hungry. What he will do, his cars and this shirt and coat and big building? Why they are committing suicide? Because he is not happy. There is no food for the spirit soul, what he is actually. Is that education? That is not education. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura is right when he says, jība ke karaye gādhā: "This material education means making people more and more asses." That's all. He is already ass because he's in this material world, and the so-called material education means keeping him in that condition more and more.
Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:
Prabhupāda: Well, you are the same Indian. Why you are not lazy here? It is the government's policy or government's management. You see? To become lazy is the recommendation of the śāstra. To become lazy... It is a bad word, "lazy," but actually life means not to work very hard. That is real life. And to work hard for eating, that is animal life, that is not human life. Human life should be very peaceful, without any hard work, and cultivating spiritual knowledge. That is human life, not that, to work hard like hogs and dogs throughout the whole day for find out some stool, where it is. That is not human life. So people are being educated to work very hard. That is not human life. Therefore those who have got money, they build nice bungalow in a secluded place to live peacefully, to become lazy. Is it not?
Indian man (1): Yes.
Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:
Prabhupāda: And as soon as they remain in darkness—"Yes, we are trying to control the laws. Future, we shall do"—they're nonsense stupid. You become educated scientist, mathematician, very good. But ultimately you accept that the law is given by Kṛṣṇa, or God. Then you are perfect.
Harikeśa: One scientist once wrote a book, and in this book a person had some disease, so they invented a little spaceship which was very, very tiny, and they went in through the eye and they saw all of the workings of the body, how all the red blood cells and white blood cells were working and attacking the disease and all these things.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Brahmānanda: They made a cinema of this.
Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:
Prabhupāda: All another set of fools, that's all. (Break) ...whole world is unhappy on account of being controlled by different set of fools. That is the calamity. If they say, "There are so many educated persons. They are controlling, and you are saying "fools." Why? Then what you will answer?
Harikeśa: "Kṛṣṇa says."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mūḍha.
Prabhupāda: Mūḍha, narādhama māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15). They have no knowledge. "Why no knowledge? Degrees." No, this is māyā. "What is the cause?" Aśuri-bhavam aśritaḥ: Godless rascal. Therefore he's a mūḍha.
Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:
Prabhupāda: This is right answer, that you cannot non-cooperate with the stomach. You must serve the stomach. Otherwise your position is very precarious. That is the answer. If the finger thinks that "I shall remain independent and be happy," that is not possible. The stomach must be supplied food, and then all the parts of the body, they'll be happy. That is the point. So you cannot non-cooperate with the stomach. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the central enjoyer. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He is the center. Just like ordinarily this African state, if you do not satisfy the state or the president, then you cannot remain happy. Independently you cannot be happy. We require in every step sta... We have come to this park because state is cooperating. In the morning we shall come, and they have prepared it nicely. We are not going to the jungle. So if we actually want happiness we must cooperate with the state. This is crude example. Similarly, if our ultimate aim is to become happy, then we must cooperate with Kṛṣṇa. This is obligatory. You cannot escape it. Then you'll be unhappy. This is the... Stomach. Pranopaharac ca yathendriyanam. Therefore the natural process is you pick up... A child even. He picks up some something, but he does not put anywhere—immediately in the mouth. Why he does not bring it in the ear? Why? The child immediately takes it. He does not know what is what. But the nature is that as soon as he captures something, even he does not know... Because his position is eating, he knows this much, sense gratification. Other senses are not yet developed. So the child, he knows taste with tongue and eats. That he knows. So immediately anything he captures, he brings to the mouth, naturally. He hasn't got to be educated.
Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:
Devotee (8): Prabhupāda? Some of the people I've met... Like in the later volumes of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, some of the information is so much against what the living entities are experiencing and being educated in, that I've noticed that some people have turned away from Kṛṣṇa who already had some attraction when they hear these different topics, like the situation of the universe.
Prabhupāda: Hm? What is that?
Brahmānanda: That because in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam the knowledge there contradicts the mundane scientific knowledge, people who had some faith in Kṛṣṇa become discouraged and turn away from Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Let him go away. Don't care for him. Let all the fools go away. There is Bengali proverb, "Instead of maintaining some bad cows, let the cowshed be vacant." We shall prefer the cowshed vacant, no cow, than keeping all bad cows who does not give any milk, create disturbance.
Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) They fight among themselves for nothing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are keeping them cats and dogs by education, culture, and they want to be happy. How it is possible? First of all let them come to the standard of human being. Then there is question of peace and happiness. They are kept as cats and dogs, and how there can be peace? You cannot make any peace in the dog society. That is not possible. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So that consciousness can come only when one is spiritually educated. If he is simply engaged for satisfying the senses, material, then he remains a cat and dog. You cannot expect any peace.
Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) māyayā... They are very much puffed up of being educated. But Kṛṣṇa says māyayāpahṛta-jñānā.
Dr. Patel: Vedas also depict about māyā. That is why naistraiguṇyo bhavarjuna. No? Am I right?
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: They are the old sticks?
Prabhupāda: Take it away and leave here.
Morning Walk -- November 14, 1975, Bombay:
Devotee (3): The scientists are also fools.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Mūḍha. That is our definition in the Bhagavad-gita. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). So much educated? māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuraṁ-bhāvam āśritāḥ. Their knowledge has no value. The māyā has taken away everything.
Indian man (4): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: māyayāpahṛta jñānā. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Indian man (4): Honor...
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Unless one understands Kṛṣṇa... Vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). Veda means knowledge. So all kinds of knowledge, they are aiming at the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So if one does not understand what is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then māyayāpahṛta-jñānā—he has no knowledge. Knowledge means ultimately he must know what is God. That is knowledge. Ye kṛṣṇa tattva vetta sei guru haya. Anyone who knows Kṛṣṇa, he becomes guru. Otherwise not. The first test is you may be scientist, philosopher, educationist, whatever you may be, but ask him, "Do you know Kṛṣṇa?" If he says, "No," then he is a fool. That's all. This is the test. (chuckles) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So Ambarisa Mahārāja, do you agree?
Ambarīṣa: Yes. It's a good test.
Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:
Yaśomatīnandana: That's the Second Canto.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The modern education means to create dogs. The dog goes door to door and moves the tail, "Please give me if you have anything." So this educated person with application goes, and they say, "No vacancy. Get out." Therefore they are dogs. Educated means dogs. They are creating dogs. In Vedic culture no brāhmaṇa will accept any job. No kṣatriya will accept any job. No vaiśya will accept any... Only śūdras. Only śūdras.
Dr. Patel: Now they are keeping dogs in their kitchens.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Doggish mentality is there.
Dr. Patel: You see, the people are spending more than thirty, forty rupees on a dog every day. But they won't pay two rupees to a servant, domestic servant in their home.
Prabhupāda: They are keeping servants also. But educated dogs. After passing so many examinations, they are seeking after master. And without master they will starve. This is doggish mentality. A big technologist, unless he gets a good job, he is nothing but dog.
Morning Walk -- November 24, 1975, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: They are all anātha-jīvita. Yes. Everyone is independence and anātha. There is nātha, but he'll not recognize. Anātha-jīvita. Bhavantam eva caran nirāntaraṁ prasanta... So we are educating people how to become sanātha-jīvitam. Live on your master's... Everyone is living at the cost of master, but foolishly. Ahāṅkara-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). They are living at the cost of the master, but they will not accept. This is the disease. (break) ...natural life, sanātha-jīvitam. From the birth the child is sanātha, parents. Where is the possibility of living independently? That is not possible.
Dr. Patel: Yamunācārya was śiṣya or guru of Rāmānujācārya?
Prabhupāda: Rāmānujācārya.
Dr. Patel: Rāmānujācārya was guru or śiṣya?
Prabhupāda: Yes, guru.
Morning Walk -- November 26, 1975, New Delhi:
Prabhupāda: (break) How to kill child. This is education. Huh? Educated girl means how to divorce husband, how to kill child. Is it not? Educated, modern educated girl means how to become unfaithful to the husband, how to divorce and how to kill child.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: How to get equal rights.
Prabhupāda: No, equal rights, that's all right. This is the education. The uneducated girls do not do this. (break)
Harikeśa: This is very funny.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Harikeśa: It says, "Invincible are the Korean people who are rallied firmly with one ideology and will under the brilliant rays of the immortal juch (?) idea of Comrade..."
Prabhupāda: All ideals.
Morning Walk -- November 30, 1975, Delhi:
Prabhupāda: Because in Vṛndāvana there are less rascals and here it is full of rascals. That is the difference. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Rascal means the nondevotees. They have no good qualification. Kuto: "Where is good qualification?" And "No, they are so civilized. They are educated." But the answer is, mano-rathena: "Whatever they may be, they are on the mental platform." Mano-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ: "Because they are on the mental platform, certainly they will hover over the external energy. Therefore they have no good qualification." Bahir-artha-maninaḥ. Simply speculating on the external feature.
Ambarīṣa: Mental platform means speculation, mental platform.
Prabhupāda: That's it. Mental platform means speculation.
Harikeśa: Na sukhaṁ na paraṁ gatim.
Prabhupāda: Paraṁ gatim. They do not take instruction from the śāstra; therefore everything is failure.
Morning Walk -- December 12, 1975, Vrndavana:
Harikeśa: One has to be very careful.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise even a devotee like Bhārata Mahārāja, he had to accept the body of a deer. A little careless. Then nature's law will act. Hm? If you do not become cautious and if you infect the smallpox disease, you have to suffer. Therefore a civilized man takes process, caution, "Oh there is smallpox disease, I shall not go there. Or if I go there, I must take vaccine." This is human civilization, caution. And if you are animal, you do not know. So human life means not animal life. Very reasonable, very cautious, educated, cultured, that is human life. Not animal life. Drink like animal, or eat like animal, have sex life like animal. Freedom, animal has got all freedom. So that freedom is not allowed to the human beings. That is civilization.
Morning Walk -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:
Tejas: For when the devotees come.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tejas: It is better than Ram līlā grounds. We'll get the educated and sophisticated people.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tejas: Not just the Old Delhi people.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And...
Tejas: And we can make very good... In the newspaper, if we get, then we'll get... We can sell the tickets also.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you attend all these Kala Bhavan. Utilize like that way. You will have always engagement. This our chanting, dancing, prasāda distribution. And they will pay also. We'll sell books. Why don't you take advantage of this institution? It requires organisation, that's all. Why LIC grounds, so much money? Three thousand daily and 40,000 monthly and so on.
Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: (break) ...is the form where the animal can take education and become a human being.
Dr. Patel: Now these human beings they get educated from animals.
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is not education. This jara avidya, material education, is no education. It doesn't require any education. This education for eating, sleeping, education, that is not education, that is cats and dogs they also know how to do it without education. Real education is brahma-vidyā. Athāto brahma jijñāsā—this is education. So that is now given up throughout the whole world. Nobody is interested in Brahman; they are simply interested in sense gratification.
Dr. Patel: Because I think, sir, the method of education the world over is absolutely different...
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is not education. The education for eating, sleeping, that is not education.
Dr. Patel: The way we were educating, our forefathers are educating their children, by this method of sending them to a guru in an āśrama...
Prabhupāda: That is real education.
Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:
Dr. Patel: And then they are prepared right from the brahmacārī āśrama for the highest goal, till they become a sannyāsī. Here he, he's neither this nor there.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no education. Real education is not there. Just like Cānakya Paṇḍita, he was not a spiritual man, but he was a prime minister. Still, he gave the standard of becoming educated. He said,
- mātṛvat para-dāreṣu
- para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat
- ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu
- yaḥ paśyati sa paṇḍitaḥ
Here is paṇḍita. What is he? Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu: he sees every woman as mother, except his own wife. And para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat: and other's property, possessions, just like garbage. And atmavat-sarva bhūteṣu: and feeling for everyone as he himself is feeling the pains and pleasures. If one has attained this stage, then he is considered educated. He never says these degrees.
Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: And bhakta... Caitanya Mahāprabhu is teaching tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. There is no education; therefore Kṛṣṇa has spoken of these people as mūḍha. "No, they are educated. They have passed so many examination"—māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. This kind of education has no value because they are forgetting the real point of education. māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritaḥ (BG 7.15).
Dr. Patel: So what is āsurī, would be...
Prabhupāda: Āsurī means godlessness. "There is no God; I am God."
Dr. Patel: Believing in the...
Prabhupāda: No, no. "There is no God. I am God." What is that beginning? Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca na vidur āsura ajana (sic) (BG 16.7), and? There is no creator? What is the exact word?
Harikeśa: Apratiṣṭham.
Prabhupāda: Apratiṣṭham. There is no cause of this creation. Kāma-haitukam: it has taken place just like a man becomes lusty by seeing a woman and he begets a child. This is the cause, this rascal desire. That's all.
Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Tyāgāt means one must be disgusted with this material way of life. This is tyāga. But they are being educated to be more attached to this material world.
Dr. Patel: This modern education.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: How to make a successful life. Like...
Prabhupāda: Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam (CC Madhya 6.254). That is bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yoga also, vidyā. Vyāsadeva also says, anārthopasanaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam. To get rid of this entanglement, unnecessary things, the only means is bhakti.
Morning Walk -- December 19, 1975, Bombay:
Dr. Patel: In my school, sir, where I was educated, in the entrance there is a statue of Sarasvatī, and nearby there is a photograph of Kṛṣṇa. I don't know how it came, that one.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Dr. Patel: All are not like that. In my school where I was educated, secondary school, in the entrance there was a statue of Sarasvatī, and near that was Kṛṣṇa's photo. (pause) (someone shouts Hare Kṛṣṇa)
Prabhupāda: In good health.
Dr. Patel: He always runs like this. All the time. He is so much frightened of his wife in the house that he cannot speak a word. Still he is in the house. That is why he makes good of the things when he comes out. (laughs) He behaves so naughtily like that. (Hindi with one man) Sir, shall we go this way, if you don't mind?
Prabhupāda: That Mr. Punja is staying? From Fiji? He has not come?
Devotee: Oh, no, he hasn't come back yet. He had two days' business, he said. He said he would come after that.
Morning Walk -- December 19, 1975, Bombay:
Dr. Patel: Para and apara vidyā.
Prabhupāda: No, kalā.... Kalā means artistic. Suppose a carpenter, he knows how to make a very nice, good furniture, does it mean that he is educated? He knows the art, some artistic way, that's all; but he is not educated. But nowadays it is going on that if you know some art, technology, then you are educated. This is not education. Education means culture.
Dr. Patel: Yes. And culture means...
Prabhupāda: Culture means human life. Otherwise dog's life. There is.... Adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam. Everything is described. Amānitvam: first of all you have to learn how to become humble. And here all the people, they are educated how to become proud. What is education?
Dr. Patel: Christ says, sir, the meek and humble shall inherit this earth. They unfortunately, the followers of Christ are not meek and humble.
Prabhupāda: And this culture cannot be maintained unless one is God conscious. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā (SB 5.18.12). There cannot be any culture for a godless person. That is not possible. And, yasyāsti-bhaktir bhagavaty-akiñcanā. Just like this European and American boy is offering obeisances to the guru, this is culture. Why he has learned this culture? Because he has become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Therefore yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā, sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ. If you make one devotee of Kṛṣṇa, then all culture will automatically come. One thing. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Morning Walk -- December 19, 1975, Bombay:
Dr. Patel: So all devotees are cultured?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Theirs is really culture. Prahlāda Mahārāja says, tam manye' dhitam uttamam, śravanaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇu-smaraṇam pāda-sevanam arcanam. Tam manye' dhityam uttamam, he is first-class educated. This is recommendation by Prahlāda Mahārāja. And Kṛṣṇa says, "If one is not God-conscious: duṣkṛtino, mūḍhā, narādhamā, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā." Where is their qualification? Duṣkṛtina, mūḍha. Where is culture? Suppose you steal by tricks, by, I mean to say, by legal tricks, does it mean it is culture? But that is going on.
Dr. Patel: That means, sir, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ, yat kiñcid jagatyāṁ jagat, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). That should be the background of all the governments.
Prabhupāda: That is bhagavad-bhakti... (end)
Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay:
Lokanātha: For detachment you suggest they remain separate.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless they are separated, it is very difficult to advance in spiritual consciousness. That is the whole Vedic system. Gradual. First of all, brahmacārī, he is educated very nicely that this is not good to marry and enter into a family life. And in spite of education, if he is still inclined, then he is allowed to marry. This is a concession. And that is for a few days, few years. Then compulsory separation from the family life. Vanaprāstha. At that time, wife is allowed to stay with the husband, but finally they are separated, sannyāsa. Wife should go home, remain with their children. That's all.
Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:
Harikeśa: Kṛṣṇa is the strongest.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the proprietor." But they'll not accept it. Kṛṣṇa says, the real proprietor says, that "I am the bhokta. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29)." But they are so rascal that they will deny the existence of Kṛṣṇa or God, or the real proprietor. They claim to be proprietor for a few days, and they, by one slap of Kṛṣṇa's hand, they finished all proprietorship, and they are going, struggling. This ignorance is prevailing all over the world. Does not know who is the proprietor, how I became proprietor, how I shall be enjoying. Nothing. The same thing, the dog philosophy: if the dog secures a morsel of bread, he's thinking, "I am proprietor." Another one snatches: "I am proprietor." This is going on. But the dog has no sense that none of us will be proprietor. So when you know who is the proprietor, then this Īśopaniṣad.... Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything, God's property. You enjoy for livelihood what is given to you. That's all. That is perfect philosophy. "I am the proprietor." That was the system in Vedic civilization. God is proprietor. King is the representative of God. He knows.... He gives you some land, that "You take this land, produce your livelihood, utilizing this land, and whatever you produce, one fourth give me." Not a fixed tax. "If you produce, one fourth is mine. If you don't produce, there is no tax." This was the system. And that includes all tax. No botheration. So people were God-fearing, honest, simple-dealing. So "I have produced a hundred mounds of rice. The king, you can take twenty-five mounds. That is my obligation." And king is also satisfied. By distributing that grain, he maintains the whole government. The real difficulty is all these rascals, they are not sufficiently educated.
Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:
Prabhupāda: So you cannot begin with this sun. The beginning of educating is that put this thesis, as Kṛṣṇa is putting, that, that this body is not all in all. Within the body, there is soul.
Harikeśa: Unless that's understood, there's no question of knowledge.
Prabhupāda: If, in the beginning, or on the basic principles, he remains a rascal, then there is no knowledge. If he does not understand that there is soul within this body, then he remains animal. What is the value of animal's speculation? Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So we shall treat them as animals. So what, what we have got to learn from the animals? They're not interested. Now let.... You can accuse: "Why you should say animals?" I may say, "You are animals." That's all right. Just come to discussion, whether you are animal or I am animal.
| Page Title: | Educated (Conv. 1968 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur |
| Created: | 26 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=311, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 311 |