Dr. Sharma: I'm professor at Berkeley, California. And I was Regents Professor at UCLA, University of California, Los Angeles.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā. In Los Angeles we have our mandira, we have... You sometimes go to our temple?
Dr. Sharma: Yes, I go to the temple in Berkeley. I was at Berkeley about a week ago. I'm in London now, at the Royal Institute of Chemistry. I was born in Haridwar.
Prabhupāda: Haridwar. (laughs) Bhagavān ka deśa hari. Hari, Hari means the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and dvāra means the door, the doorway to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There is a place in India, Haridwar, people go there for pilgrimage, very famous place.
Dr. Sharma: I grew up with yogis and sannyāsīs in Hrishikesh. My father is a recluse.
Prabhupāda: Oh, your father is also recluse.
Dr. Sharma: Recluse. And I must tell an incident which, although I was growing up with meditation, I find the bhakti-yoga, the chanting, really fulfilling and actually making the difference. Actually making the difference. In one case, it is abstract philosophy, which is the rāja-yoga, other yogas, philosophies, and this actually makes the person transformed. Another incident occurred yesterday, when I was meditating and I wanted to ask about five different ślokas of Gītā, out of which, surprisingly, you discussed four. (laughter) This was most astounding to me.
Prabhupāda: Which one?
Dr. Sharma:
- yadā yadā hi dharmasya
- glānir bhavati bhārata
- abhyutthānam adharmasya
- tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham
- (BG 4.7)
That was one. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). I'd like to discuss two more: karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana. If you could please kindly...
Prabhupāda: That is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
- ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā
- varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ
- svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya
- saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam
- (SB 1.2.13)
Everyone is engaged in his occupational duties. Everyone is engaged. Generally according to Vedic civilization, the society is divided into eight divisions. Varṇāśrama-dharma it is called-four varṇas and four āśramas. Materially, four varṇas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And spiritually, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. These eight divisions. So according to these eight divisions, everyone has an occupational duty. So what is the duty and how the duty is perfected? That is hari-toṣaṇam, to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That people do not know. Especially at the present moment, they do not know who is Hari and they do not know how to please Him. That is the defect of the modern civilization, that they do not care to know who is God and how to satisfy Him. That is the defect. The life is meant for, human life, for satisfying God. That is going on under religious system, and the Vedic civilization is called varṇāśrama-dharma. Dharma is not a kind of faith, religion is not a kind of faith, but it is a duty, varṇāśrama-dharma. So that duty we are forgetting. And therefore we are coming to the level of animals. Because the cats and dogs, they have no duty-animal. But human being has an obligation, a duty to understand God and to satisfy Him. That is human life. Without this knowledge, without this performance of duty, human life is on the level of animals. There are many other verses in this connection.