Prabhupāda: The Lord said that "Many, many, many, many millions of years before, ago, I explained this science of Bhagavad-gītā to the sun-god." Now, to eliminate any doubt in the minds of ordinary persons like us, Arjuna inquired that, "Kṛṣṇa, You are my friend. We are almost of the same age. How do you say that You explained this Bhagavad-gītā millions and millions of years ago to the sun-god? How can I believe it?" In answer to this question, Kṛṣṇa said that, "Both you..." (break) "...descended on this material world many many times, but you have forgotten. I remember." That is the nature of ordinary living entity. The nature is forgetfulness. But God does not forget. He knows past, present, and future. That is the difference between Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa. So the fighting spirit, it is to be understood. The fighting spirit is there in the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and it is exhibited at a certain period just to teach us that when fighting should be taken.
Doubt (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"doubt"
|"doubted"
|"doubter"
|"doubtful"
|"doubtfulness"
|"doubting"
|"doubts"
- VedaBase query: doubt* not "no doubt*" not "without doubt"@4
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Please come again.
Guest (2): Thank you very much.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Take some prasādam.
Guest (2): Thank you very much.
Prabhupāda: So you did not question anything, if you have got any doubts?
Guest (2): I beg your pardon? (devotees explain Prabhupāda's question) Do I have any doubts? Divine Master, you have made me able to read my heart. I have no pretensions to speak one way or another. There is no doubt.
Devotee: She said there is no doubt.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. (mild laughter) (end)
Reporter: But, of course, they're not going there to build a city, but they're only going there to take some rock samples, do some experiments, and then leave.
Prabhupāda: That may be possible. Just like you go in the ocean and live for some time and come back, but you cannot make any permanent settlement there. Yes. But that also I am doubtful whether you can land and take some, I mean to say, earth or water from there. That is also very difficult. So far our literature goes, our information goes, it is not possible.
Reporter: Do you think that the, say astronauts that would land on the moon, do you think they would encounter any difficulty in going about and doing what they wanted to and then leaving?
Prabhupāda: The first thing is that according to our knowledge from the Vedic literature they cannot go there.
Reporter: But you admitted that it may be possible for them to go there for a short time and leave.
Prabhupāda: That I am taking this example just like we go for a short time on the sea but we cannot make any permanent settlement there.
Hayagrīva: It's just the means. He said it's not impossible to go there, but the means that they're using now are not very good means to go there.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: He has some doubts about the means they're using to go there. He doesn't think that the...
Reporter: I think what... I think we have to carry it further enough so that we can tell whether, for one thing whether I have a story or not. If it's felt if you have doubts that it can be done, that's one thing. But if you have great confidence that it can never be done except by changing one's body...
Prabhupāda: No, I don't say that. I say that in order to enter into the... Just try to understand me clearly. In order to enter the moon planet you have got to prepare yourself for a suitable body. Is that clear? If you, by some way or other, you make that suitable body you can enter. But the present body which you have manufactured, the spacesuit, is not suitable.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: We don't mention any particular thing. Generally we say "No intoxication."
Interviewer: But that's a negative. I'm talking now about... What about the positive aspects of it? Because I have known some very wicked people who never indulged in intoxicants.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes...
Interviewer: I doubt if that is your dividing line.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Simply becoming non-intoxicated does not mean that he is a very good man. That I admit.
Interviewer: Does the method include meditation? What... How do you go about this process?
Prabhupāda: Our process is... It is also meditation. But as you understand by meditation, that concentrating the mind upon some super subject matter, the same thing is there, but we don't try to concentrate the mind artificially. But our, this chanting process immediately attracts the mind. Our process is... Just like Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. We chant it in melodious song. So mind is attracted, and we try to hear the sound. That means my mind and my ear is compact in that thought. Therefore it is practical meditation.
Prabhupāda: Everyone was...? When?
Student (3): When? In the beginning.
Student (2): If you sit down and you look very closely into his eyes, and you get closer and closer and closer and closer. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: What is their doubt?
Student (2): You can go all the way, all the way, all the way, and what do you find? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: You can find. I cannot find.
Student (3): I wanted material world, being in spiritual consciousness is to get...
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are trying that. Calling everyone, "Come and push your conscious." We are inviting everyone. There is no restriction. And it is very easy. Just try to dance and chant. That's all. In the treatment they are taking part. That child is taught something of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He'll be a very good child. So it is open to everyone. There is no restriction.
Prabhupāda: Now, philosophy,... Your argument is service of man is service of God.
Guest (4): It is not my argument. It is argument of Ramakrishna and Vivekananda.
Prabhupāda: Now you are representing Ramakrishna. You are representing Ramakrishna. That's all. I take it.
Guest (4): Because I am also in doubt about... I want to know the truth.
Prabhupāda: The truth is... The example I have given you, that service of the body means service of the stomach. Service of the body does not mean service of the finger.
Guest (4): Service of the body means the service of part of God because body is an embodiment of the...
Prabhupāda: Now, I'll give you the example. Suppose if you want to... Take the whole body. If you want to serve this body you must give food. So where to give the food? To the finger or to the stomach? Therefore God is the stomach. Supply food there and every part of the body will be full.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That's... They do not understand Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) Why step by step? If you have to accept Kṛṣṇa, why not immediately? That is intelligence.
Guest (9): But you should be...
Prabhupāda: There is no question of "should be." When Kṛṣṇa says, "I'll give you protection," why "should be"? You don't believe in Kṛṣṇa. He says, ahaṁ tvaṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣa (BG 18.66). You are doubtful about Kṛṣṇa's capacity. That means you do not know Kṛṣṇa. Yes.
Guest (9): But in a part of one form...
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Guest (9): To understand Kṛṣṇa...
Guest (2): He means that is beyond his capacity, to understand Him.
Prabhupāda: What is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa says, "I am everything." Why don't you accept Him? That means you want to understand Kṛṣṇa in your own way. Why you are becoming intentionally unable?
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Śyāmasundara: She's to that point without having any rational knowledge.
Mensa Member: There's some (indistinct) simple people also (indistinct) people like Blake, for example, or Buddha (indistinct) simple person. It's not this sort of faith, only child-like faith (indistinct) simple people.
Dr. Weir: It's is easier for them though. It's easier for the simple person because he doesn't have all these mental, complicated doubts and, you know, arguments with himself.
Mensa Member: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: It's said that as one progresses more in spiritual life he becomes simpler and more innocent, but in the beginning he may have had to comprehend it on some verbal level in order to (indistinct)
Dr. Weir: I often used say to my students that I've got to remember that if anything in life to realize the difference between simple and complicated, which is objective, and easy and difficult, which is subjective. In other words sometimes a simple thing may be terribly difficult for a person to get hold of. Whereas complicated things he may find quite easy.
Prabhupāda: So your student has to follow your instruction. That means accepts authority.
Reporter: Anartha visya.
Prabhupāda: Anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Then nobody will question. All questions will be anartha-nivṛttiḥ, all doubts gone. Then niṣṭhā, firm faith. Then firm faith, niṣṭhā. Then taste. Whenever there is Kṛṣṇa topics, immediately you go. Tato niṣṭhā...
Reporter: Taste?
Prabhupāda: Taste, ruciḥ.
Reporter: Accha. Taste, ruciḥ.
Prabhupāda: Tato niṣṭhā tataḥ ruciḥ athāsakti , then attachment.
Reporter: Tathā?
Prabhupāda: Āsakti.
Reporter: Āsakti.
Prabhupāda: Mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. That is Kṛṣṇa says, mayi āsakta. We have to increase our āsakta, attachment, for Kṛṣṇa by this process. Tathāsakti tataḥ bhāvaḥ. Then you will see Kṛṣṇa everywhere. That is kṛṣṇa prema.
Reporter: That is bhāva. That is at last...
Prabhupāda: Yes, not last. Last but one. The last stage is you can not live without Kṛṣṇa.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: He can go. (japa continues) Are you getting some interest with our association?
Yadubara: Yes, I am. I feel the effects of chanting very much.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Yadubara: It's very pleasant.
Prabhupāda: And if you have got any doubts, any questions, you can inquire. That is required.
Yadubara: I have been asking questions of devotees. It's hard for me to comprehend some of the things in the scriptures. I just don't understand.
Prabhupāda: No, apart from scripture, from your personal understanding you can place questions. People, generally, they have no idea of God. We are placing the factual God. That is very difficult to understand. Generally they think it is an idea, fiction. But we don't think like that. We have got clear conception of God. That is the difference between our Society and all any other religious groups. They have no clear idea of God. They simply say that there is God, God is great, but no clearer.
Devotee: Whether the British should have been forcibly removed from India.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is ordinary duty. If you encroach upon my freedom, I have the right to kill you. That is recommended. That is clearly stated in the śāstras. If anyone sets fire in another's house, if anyone kidnaps his wife, if anyone takes his money—so many list—he is to be killed. There is no question. He can be killed immediately. That action-reaction is going on in the material world, that is a different thing. That is karma-bandha. But in devotion, there is no karma-bandha. As Kṛṣṇa is free from all reaction, similarly Kṛṣṇa's devotee who wants to satisfy Kṛṣṇa only, he is also free from all reaction. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān nāva-manyeta karhicit (SB 11.17.27). "The ācārya is as good as I am," Kṛṣṇa says. Nāva-manyeta karhicit, "Never neglect him." Na martya-buddhyāsūyeta, "Never be envious of the ācārya, thinking him as anything of this material world." Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān (SB 11.17.27). Therefore, ācārya's position is as good as Kṛṣṇa. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair **. Ācārya is always cautious that he may not be subject to criticism. But who criticizes ācārya, he becomes immediately offender. Because he is playing the part of ācārya, he plays as far as possible. But sometimes for preaching work, he might have to do something which is not consistent. But if he is criticized, then that man who criticizes, he becomes... Of course, he must be ācārya, not a bogus. Ordinary man cannot transgress the laws, but Kṛṣṇa and His representative, ācārya, might be sometimes seen that he has transgressed. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān (SB 11.17.27). Vaiṣṇavera kriyā, mudrā vijñeha nā bujhaya. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Vaiṣṇava ācārya, his activities is not understood even by the wisest man. Vaiṣṇavera kriyā, mudrā vijñeha nā bujhaya. Brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam. Ācārya, guru, he is completely surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. He has taken the shelter of Kṛṣṇa, being completely freed from all material affection. Brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam. Everything... Everyone has got some material desire to fulfill, but a guru or ācārya has no such business. That is the symptom of ācārya. He has no more any material business. Brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam. He has finished all business of material satisfaction. That is the symptom of ācārya. And śābde pare ca niṣṇātam. And he has taken full bath in the ocean of transcendental (indistinct). Śābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta (SB 11.3.21), one should surrender to such spiritual master. Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam, when he is actually serious about inquiring the transcendental subject matter. Otherwise there is no need of accepting guru or ācārya. He has no business. If one is not interested in the transcendental subject matter... Just like so many people come, they have no interest. Unnecessarily they talk and waste time. As soon as I asked that man that "If I say something, whether you will accept?" He said, "If I like it, then I shall accept." Then why come to waste my time to inquire from me? Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34). When you go to inquire something from a person, you must fully surrender there, or you must find out a person where you can fully surrender. Otherwise, don't put any questions. Your waste of time, his waste of time. Because he will not accept. Suppose if you go to a physician, you are diseased, and the physician says, "All right, I shall give you medicine." And if you say, "Yes, I shall accept the medicine if I like it," then why do you go to that physician? What is the meaning? The physician, one physician doctor friend, long..., forty years ago, he prescribed one of my patent medicines. And the patient little protested because it is Indian-made. He was Eurasian. So as soon as he questioned, "What is this medicine, Indian-made?" "Yes, it is Indian-made. If you have no such faith, don't come to me." He flatly said, "Don't come to me." That should be the position of the physician or ācārya. If you go there, you should accept whatever he says. If you are in doubt, then don't go there. That is the position. It is freedom. It is not that you have to accept some ācārya particular by canvassing. No, you should be inspired that "Yes, here I can surrender, here I can gain something." Then surrender. In the spiritual science, there is no bluffing. Everything must be very clear-cut. Otherwise it will be not very satisfactory. (break) Hear this sound, ca-caw caw. (laughter) Because nobody takes this rooster.
Indian man (2): No, he's not a professor. He's just a sadak(?), you see, interested in reading and writing.
Guru dāsa: So if he will put the name on any foreword, then he can also create any theory. If that man did not give the foreword and he has put the name, he will create any theory.
Indian man (2): Yes, of course, that's what he is up to, that's what he is up to.
Guru dāsa: And if someone doubts that, then they're not strong followers of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Indian man (2): Yes. That is a great thing against him.
Guru dāsa: How can you doubt the authority?
Indian man (2): I think he has got certain preconceptions in his mind and, you see, he just tries to prove them by collecting all sorts of data that will just fit into his point of view.
Prabhupāda: Just like Gandhi wanted to prove nonviolence from Gītā.
Indian man (2): From Gītā. No, not like that. I would say like Brindarkara(?) wanted to prove that the..., that Kṛṣṇa story and Kṛṣṇa religion had been borrowed from West, you see, and they are a copy of Christ religion. Mandakara has done that.(end)
Śyāmasundara: Yes. In Madras?
Prabhupāda: No, Allahabad during Kumbha-melā. They said, "Swamiji, God is person, you are the first man speaking." Why first man? It is already there. They cannot believe that God is person.
Śyāmasundara: As long as there is imperson, there is doubt, there is unclear, unclear.
Prabhupāda: Unclear.
Śyāmasundara: As soon as there is person, there is no doubt, clear.
Prabhupāda: But we have tried to explain how He is person. Just like we try to explain how God is working. So one should have brain to study things. One must have clear idea how God is person, how He is working, how this cosmic manifestation is manifested by God's energy. Kṛṣṇa says, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā (BG 9.4). "In My impersonal feature, everything is manifested there." Tatam idaṁ sarvam. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). So one has to apply his brain—that is intelligence—how it has become person. That is not false, that is fact. You cannot understand; your brain is teeny. That is different thing. Now you make your brain competent to understand this philosophy. (break) ...vijñātaṁ bhavanti. So take this philosophy nicely, understand this philosophy, and preach. You will be victorious everywhere, because we can challenge anyone. If you know the trick, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you can challenge. Nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati (SB 6.17.28). One who is nārāyaṇa-parāḥ, he is never afraid of anything.
Prabhupāda: This is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. If somebody is thinking, "If I had like this, like that, like that, like that." "All right you will have all." (laughter) Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu wanted to save himself in this way, that... "Yes, all are granted," but still he had to die. All granted. So we are trying to take facilities from Kṛṣṇa beginning from "O God, give us our daily bread, then give me motorcar, then give me airplane, then give me this, give me that." "Take all, but you will never be happy unless you surrender to Me. You take all." This is going on. The modern civilization, they are wanting, "We may have this, we may have that, we may have this, we may have that." "Yes, you take all. But don't talk of happiness, please." That is the only problem. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66), if you want this. Otherwise, you take whatever you like.
Śyāmasundara: The devotees, they don't care. They'll go across the desert hitchhiking, but Kṛṣṇa gives them happiness. They're happy.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is happiness. They are going for Kṛṣṇa, that is happiness. They forget the trouble.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Today he's gone again. (break)
Prabhupāda: Don't be doubtful about this at least. You may do or not do, but at least you be convinced that this is the nicest thing we have got. And there is no comparison.
Śyāmasundara: And the more we experience it, the more we become convinced.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: There's no alternative. (end)
Martin: It's true.
Prabhupāda: Who has created the brain of Professor Einstein? You have not created. You are trying to make a xerox copy, that's all. But the original is already there. Now who has created the original brain? Then you have to go to God. But you have not created. It is not my men(?). If man could create such brain, then, "Ah, never mind, the professor has died. We create another person like." That you cannot. So even if you are able to imitate, you are not the supreme scientist. First of all it is doubtful. So accepting that you will be able to copy or xerox copy of Einstein's brain, that does not give you the credit. The credit is already there, God's credit. At least we shall not give you any credit. We shall speak that the original brain is created by God. You cannot create. If you had the power to create, then there was no necessity of copying. You could create better brain. That you haven't got. You are trying to take xerox copy from that brain. Just like big, big aeroplanes are flying, but their, the shape is made after the bird. The original shape bird is created by God. He has got the same type of machine even within an insect, small insect flying. You can create a small aeroplane like that. That is not possible. Then what is your credit? Here is God's credit, a small fly, near water. You create it. You see? You can create a big, but you cannot a small. Therefore you are incapable. But God can create the biggest and the smallest. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān. He can create the greater than the greatest and the smaller than the smallest.
Prabhupāda: We have to edit in such a way, present our literature in such a way that it will be gospel truth.
Devotee: Oh!
Prabhupāda: Authorized. That people will refer to our books. So we have to very cautiously print our literatures. It is not ordinary literature, fiction, or something, story. Just like Bhagavad-gītā and Bhāgavata. They are not ordinary. literature. Without any four defects of human frailties. Bhrama, pramāda, vipralipsa, also... We are following those literatures. So our writing should be so authorized that in future one may not find any fault, contradiction. We shall have to, cautiously. The ideas are given there now... In future of course, it requires that we shall increase (indistinct). But for the present, we have to push on this movement with positive, I mean to say, conviction, that here is God. God is neither dead, nor every one of you is God, nor is He imperson. God is a person and we give you His name, address, father's name, activities. Here is God. So, we have to (indistinct). So if you have got any doubt about it, then you cannot do it. If you have got any doubt that whether Kṛṣṇa is positive God or (indistinct) then you cannot do it. That is the first qualification. If you are yourself not convinced, how you can convince others? This is our propaganda. This is our mission. (indistinct). Whether you are all convinced on this point? That here is positive God. What is your opinion? So far I am concerned, I have no opinion, convinced. (laughter). Therefore, I am pushing on. It is a fact. I am pushing on because I am pushing on fact, not fiction. That much I am personally convinced. Whenever there is somebody says, "You believe". "No, I don't believe, it is fact." Any press reporter, that press reporter.
Devotee (1) (woman): Prabhupāda, is Lord Caitanya always carrying on saṅkīrtana in the spiritual world?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He is the father of the saṅkīrtana movement. Saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ. This is the statement in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. This Lord, incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, is worshiped by saṅkīrtana yajña, and those who are intelligent, sumedhasaḥ, sharp brain, they worship this Lord by saṅkīrtana. This is the statement in the Bhāgavata. And, therefore, we worship Him with saṅkīrtana. This picture, He is being worshiped by saṅkīrtana. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti (SB 11.5.32). And they are all big men Śrī Advaita, Śrī Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa, and others, followers. That is the proof. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇam, He is fair complexioned, but He is always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-varṇam iti, He is describing the science of Kṛṣṇa. These are the statement, and He is doing exactly the same thing. His accepting sannyāsa order is also mentioned in the śāstra. So everything we have to accept through three channels: sādhu, śāstra, guru. Saintly person, they you should accept; guru you should accept; and it must be mentioned in the śāstra. Guru cannot manufacture something. He must quote from the śāstra and then tell to his disciple. So disciple, as soon as he receives a message from guru corroborated by the śāstra, then he should take it as fact. This is the way. Why there should be any more doubt? What is your argument?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: There is no argument, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Jayatīrtha: If they were actually going to the moon planet then they could enjoy the soma juice there (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: These rascals are... I'm doubtful whether they are going to moon planet or some hell planet. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā (SB 5.18.12). Our only formula is anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has no good qualities—we reject him, whatever he may be. He is rejected from the list of good men, immediately. He may be president or he may be this or that, it doesn't matter. Because he is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a third-class man, that's all. This is our certification. (break) These skyscraper buildings are no better than caves. They live here, and here is bathroom, here is kitchen, here is (indistinct) room, three inches. (laughter) Is that advanced civilization? Advanced civilization means every man must have sufficient space to live. Why do you create this path? People will recreate, they will feel repressed, so space is required for refreshment. So what is this civilization? Three inches room.
Devotee (2): The devotee is always offering devotional service to the Supreme Personality.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is (inaudible). Simply by knowledge... Knowledge you must have, but simply theoretical knowledge... Practical manifestation that he's a great devotee. Whenever there is any doubt or question, he will prove by the evidences of śāstra.
Jayatīrtha: ...was saying last night to our scientist friend, than Kṛṣṇa is the perfect teacher. The spiritual master is simply repeating perfectly what Kṛṣṇa is saying. So if Kṛṣṇa is saying, "Surrender to Me," then the spiritual master is saying, "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayatīrtha: So in this way, the spiritual master and Kṛṣṇa are in complete agreement.
Prabhupāda: Thus he becomes the (indistinct) of Kṛṣṇa.
Rāmeśvara: The other teachers, they don't talk...
Prabhupāda: When is Ekādaśī?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Ekādaśī?
Rāmeśvara: Tuesday is Ekādaśī.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So if they admit they have no perfect knowledge, how they can say there is no God, or there is God? They cannot say.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are very doubtful.
Prabhupāda: Doubtful. That means not perfect knowledge. So how they can say that there is no God. They can say: "Yes, there may be or may not be. We do not know." That is a gentleman. How they can say there is no God? And people are misled. "Oh, such and such scientist has said there is no God. Therefore there is no God." He does not know that he's a perfectly foolish. His statement has no value. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21), because he has posed himself as a very big man, people follow him blindly and they're misled.
Karandhara: Like the Russians...
Prabhupāda: Oh, they are set of fools.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They do not believe in God, the Russians?
Prabhupāda: No. They are all rascals. I have studied them in one week.
Prabhupāda: ...difficulty for the scientist to understand God? What is their difficulty? We understand God very easily.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They find it very hard to see the spirit, the soul in... It is very doubtful, they say.
Prabhupāda: No, no, spirit you see or don't see, that is dif...
Umāpati: He studies matter.
Prabhupāda: No, that's all right.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, once they see the spirit soul, they can detect somehow, then they are definitely convinced.
Prabhupāda: So how you can see? It is... The measurement is given, 1/10,000th part of the tip of the hair. So where is your seeing power?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Still they want to sense it by some...
Prabhupāda: Sense, that is... Any rascal can sense that here is living energy. That is spirit soul. Just like if you inject one grain of poison and immediately he dies, does it require how he dies? That one, not one grain. Even one hundredth part of one grain, venomous poison, how it acts? So even nobody can see it, when the snake bites, nobody can see where is that... How he dies?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They will explain that by..., it blocks some of the metabolic paths...
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but it is acting. That is my point. You can explain in your nonsense way, this, so many things. But I see that because that very little portion of poison is there, immediately he dies. Why don't you see the action?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like taking cyanide. Cyanide, they say cyanide blocks the...
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, but the thing, we have to see by the effect. Similarly, if the small particle of... Therefore our knowledge is perfect. We take it from Vedas. The small particle of soul, because it is present there, you will see the whole thing is going on nicely.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: The scientific process.
Prabhupāda: Scientific process, you begin studying... Suppose you are studying biology, you begin from hair, do you mean to say?
Krishna Tiwari: Yes, but something I..., can I have my some doubts?
Prabhupāda: No, no, first of all you answer me.
Krishna Tiwari: Yeah, I answer you because, uh...
Prabhupāda: That because you are studying my body you begin studying from my hair?
Krishna Tiwari: Some place, some place. It is hair, eyes, ears, someplace.
Prabhupāda: You think that is, uh, scientific?
Krishna Tiwari: Scientists will study... If they want to study a body, they study first outside, looking at what they can learn. Then after sometime it is stopped. Then one has to go inside.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that's all right. So our point of view is when we study the body, we study first of all the soul.
Prabhupāda: Anyone. Anyone.
Krishna Tiwari: According to our Hindu philosophy, I understand everything has a soul.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Everything. Everybody has a soul.
Krishna Tiwari: Well, that makes me doubtful, because if I go into my laboratory and I can create as many souls as I like. I can breed animals, as many as them I like.
Prabhupāda: You cannot create. The souls are already there. You can find out...
Krishna Tiwari: Well I..., then I'm putting a lot of pressure on God. Every time I make lot of rats, I'm asking for rat souls.
Prabhupāda: Rat has soul, yes.
Krishna Tiwari: I know, but that's... Why, why then I can do it? When I can, or when I want them to be here, they will be here, not on the will of God. According to our concept of soul...
Śyāmasundara: If he's in the laboratory, and he's breeding rats, he's making rats have sex life and have babies, then he is controlling the souls of those rats.
Prabhupāda: He is not controlling. He is controlling the body.
Krishna Tiwari: Well, so body has soul.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That's all. That you don't know.
Devotee (1): So then your process is imperfect. You admit. We're saying that there's a process which is perfect, and it's a process of receiving knowledge which is absolute, that is descending, and receiving that with a submissive attitude. And you're saying that by your sensuous endeavor with your different machines and instruments, you can ascend to the Absolute Truth. But the symptom of a person who is in knowledge is that he's satisfied, he's peaceful within, and we can understand that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness society is developing, is helping living entities, people, become satisfied within by receiving knowledge and actually coming to, to understand themselves and what's around them and so forth, whereas, let me ask you, how many people have actually come to this stage of peacefulness and knowledge, of being freed from the need for intoxication and so many different things, by your scientific method? In other words, has this process helped you to be actually filled with knowledge and bliss, or has it simply sent you into more questioning and more doubt until you come to a point of what we were discussing the other day, the Heisenberg's theory of uncertainty? Ultimately you come to the theory of uncertainty. So we're saying, when you come to this point, then you may as well just relax and try to have a submissive attitude, or any scientist, and try to receive knowledge which is descending.
Prabhupāda: Another, another thing is, he says, he says that he does not know what is there beyond this material nature. But he's still satisfied with that imperfect knowledge.
Devotee (1): That's right. You should not be satisfied with that imperfect knowledge.
Krishna Tiwari: Wait a minute.
Prabhupāda: To be satisfied with imperfect knowledge is the qualification of an animal.
Śrutikīrti:
- naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā
- tvat-prasādān mayācyuta
- sthito 'smi gata-sandehaḥ
- kariṣye vacanaṁ tava
- (BG 18.73)
"Arjuna said: My dear Kṛṣṇa, O infallible one, my illusion is now gone. I have regained my memory by Your mercy, and I am now firm and free from doubt and am prepared to act according to Your instructions."
Prabhupāda: There it is. "I am prepared now to act according to Your whims." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When he was trying to act according to his whim, the necessity of instruction of Bhagavad-gītā was there. And when he heard Bhagavad-gītā, he's changed. "Now this is..., all doubts are gone. At last I will act according to your..." This is... Very important verse. Changing. Changing the whole picture. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Same Arjuna, same fighting, same battlefield, everything same, but still everything changed. The consciousness is changed. Externally nothing changed; internally changed. This change is equal for perfection.
Devotee (2): So one doesn't have to give up his...
Prabhupāda: No. Arjuna was a soldier, he was a fighter. The battlefield was there, the war was there, everything was there. He did not... He took to Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not mean he gave up the field and went away. He remained there, but simply the consciousness was changed. He was not willing to fight on his own account. He changed his opinion, "Yes, now I shall fight. By Your grace, my all doubts are now gone." This is required, this is perfection. And there's the picture how Kṛṣṇa is guiding Arjuna. When the ranks are formed.
Devotees and David Wynne: Yes.
Prabhupāda: "Just here. Just here."
Devotee (3): This picture is in George's album.
David Wynne: Yeah, yeah. When I was young my mother died. I was very unhappy, and I read the..., a bit where Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna that "That which is real always exists, and that which isn't real never existed at all," and then I stopped being unhappy. Because this book is..., it tells you everything. (end)
Prabhupāda: Do you think that this process, as I have suggested, to know one's father through the authority of the mother is not perfect?
Mr. Wadell: Oh, well, I think it's as near perfect as you can get.
Prabhupāda: Why you say, "as near"? Why still doubt?
Mr. Wadell: Because it is not quite the same thing as my knowing that I am here. There's a famous French philosopher who began all his philosophy from the phrase "I am conscious; therefore I know that I exist." And he deduced everything, you know, starting from here.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact. You are conscious, I am conscious, that's a fact. It is not the question of belief. It is not question of belief. Belief may be wrong, but fact is fact.
Mr. Wadell: Yes, agreed.
Prabhupāda: So when one's... I say that I am conscious, you say you are conscious. We are conscious. That's a fact. And that consciousness is the symptom of the presence of the soul. Because from the dead body... Dead body means when the soul departs from the body, there is no more consciousness.
Mr. Wadell: This is something on which I think I am probably too young or too..., I have not thought enough about it to be able to tell you very clearly or to define very clearly what I think. This is very difficult I know. But I am conscious that I do not know about this. I can make certain... I mean I am inclined to accept what you say, but I cannot say that I know it.
Prabhupāda: Therefore when we are in doubts, therefore we have to refer to the authority. Just like when you are diseased, so you go to the physician, "What is the cause of my this trouble?" Similarly, when you are in doubts, you have to approach an authority to clear the doubts. Otherwise you will remain in doubts, ignorance.
Mr. Wadell: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Therefore our Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Tad-vijñānārtham, in order to clear the doubt, to be in perfect knowledge, one must approach the authorized bona fide spiritual master.
Mr. Wadell: Can we go back to the physician. It is possible for a physician to be wrong.
Prabhupāda: Yes, we are always in wrong because we are born ignorant. Everything is wrong because ignorant, foolish. Madman's conception. This is all wrong, childish. Therefore we send our boys, children, to school, to correct the wrong ideas.
Prabhupāda: You must be sure that whatever knowledge you are giving, that is perfect. Then you are teacher.
Mr. Wadell: Well, you see, what you are... In that case, I should have to pretend, you see. I would have to pretend to know something which I did not know at all. Then I should be a cheater, wouldn't I. And that would be wrong. And there must be many things which I do not know.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is better to become honest. If I do not know anything perfectly I should not be teacher. That is right thing. And if I have got doubtful knowledge, perhaps, maybe, why shall I be teacher. I should, "No, no I cannot teach. The subject is unknown." That is our process.
Mr. Wadell: Yes. I must say that I, there are many things of which I haven't got knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is going on. That is going on. Therefore people are misled.
Mr. Wadell: No. I would mislead them more if I said that I knew.
Prabhupāda: No. No, no. If you do not know, why should you say you knew? That is another cheating.
Mr. Wadell: How do you mean?
Prabhupāda: If... When you know...
Mr. Wadell: Oh, yes, I don't pretend. If I know something, I say I know, but...
Prabhupāda: Then you say that..., you say, "I know."
Guest (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So whenever you find time, you can come, or, if you like, you can live with us. We have got ample place. Girls and ladies, they live separately. Boys and gentlemen, they live separately. Those who are married, we have got apartments for householders. And gradually, we are improving, I mean to say, arranging further facilities. First of all you try to attend our class in the morning and inquire all about your doubts. Have some clear idea what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Read our literatures as far as possible. You have taken some book, I see, I saw. And if you agree to this principle, we take charge of you. You haven't got any botheration, how you'll get prasāda. We shall arrange for that...
Guest (3) (young British woman): Religion, meaning trying to serve God, is any more right than another?
Prabhupāda: This is not religion. This is the only business. Religion is different thing. Suppose... Just like... I have already explained, that you are sleeping, and you have got a good engagement. And somebody's trying to awake you, that "You have to go there. Just get up! Get up!" So this kind of business is not religion. Religion is a, what is a kind of faith, a sentiment. That is different thing. It is the main business of human being. Because we are part and parcel of... Just like a boy, he's very rich man's son. Some way or other, he's out of his home, and he's suffering for want of food, want of shelter. And somebody's giving information that "I know you are such and such big man's son. Why you are loitering in the street? Why don't you go back to your home, back to your father?" So is it not the best business. So everyone is suffering. That I have already explained, how they are suffering. We are trying to save his suffering by dispatching him back to home, back to Godhead. This is our business. So it is not religion. It is the most important humanitarian work. What do you think?
Haṁsadūta: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no aim of the education. Their only aim is economic development.
Buddhist Monk (1): That's right.
Prabhupāda: And that means a higher standard of sense gratification.
Buddhist Monk (1): The more material doubts people can produce, that's supposed to be the educated person.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Buddhist Monk (1): And I told them directly and indirectly, "Your systems, which have transplanted the well, type systems, especially of India, has created a catastrophe. We have made mistakes in the past. But we profited by them, and we want a successful educational system that taught the individual how to give himself peace within himself, mentally and physically. Within his family, within his relations society, nation and the world. And today that system has been overtaken by this materialistic system. One calls himself materialist directly. Another, camouflage, just under the name of religion. That's the only difference I know of in these two systems in the West. That's the only difference." And I told them. I said, "We want peace. Śānti, śānti, śānti. And we know the danger of playing with the fireball of materialism, which is throwing its tentacles into every part of society: divorces, nervous cases, mental cases, cancers, suicides, family life is breaking. And it reminds me of Gibbon's writing about the decline and fall of the Roman Empire. And all those symptoms are there in this so-called progressive, civilized culture." I used the word "so-called." And this mind...
Prabhupāda: But what remedy you have suggested?
Buddhist Monk (1): Reduction of greed, and substitution of liberality. There is no other remedy.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Harry: No, no, no. Not if, unless it's absolutely necessary, but I doubt that... I would have to say that you want a firearm to kill vermin.
Prabhupāda: We (laughs) are not interested in killing.
Harry: No, Do you understand? Like rabbits or anything like that.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no.
Revatīnandana: No, what he's saying is that if we wanted to keep a firearm, it would have to go down in the book that it is for killing animals; that is legitimate business here.
Śyāmasundara: In order to get our license.
Revatīnandana: Otherwise, we wouldn't be able to get a license for using it for defending the property.
Śyāmasundara: Except that...
Revatīnandana: We could put an alarm system in if we put jewels in the Deity room.
Harry: Oh yes, yes, put an alarm in, yes.
Śyāmasundara: This is England, after all, a civilized country.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Revatīnandana: Even in London, we haven't had need of..., haven't had much trouble.
Harry: Well, no, but you see...
Prabhupāda: In America also, I have seen...
Harry: ...there are some people who...
Prabhupāda: ...in counties , they keep open door. I was in Butler.
Prabhupāda: So you can, you can give some introductory...
Ambassador: Yes, I will give the names, too. You come to the Embassy.
Prabhupāda: No, visa, of course, it is to be given from here. So why you should refer to Delhi? You can use your discrimination.
Ambassador: I don't think so. I'll see. I doubt very much. If I can exercise, I am prepared to exercise it.
Prabhupāda: So... No, no. Visa, visa is issued from the country...
Ambassador: Yeah, from the embassy, but we have got some, some people we can straight-away issue. In some cases they would refer to India. But if we make a positive recommendation, they will agree.
Prabhupāda: So that I do not know. But visa is given by the embassy, from the local place.
Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you like prasādam?
Prabhupāda: Later on.
Ambassador: Much too early.
Prabhupāda: So they have done nice?
Ambassador: They have done so well, you know. I feel...
Prabhupāda: So you kindly eat all of them.
Prabhupāda: Śraddhā is explained in Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Śraddhā means firm conviction. That is śraddhā. Just like Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the Supermost." So if you have firm conviction in Kṛṣṇa's words, that is śraddhā.
Umāpati: Yes.
Prabhupāda: If you have doubts, then that is not śraddhā.
Umāpati: So therefore one can understand only if one is in śraddhā.
Prabhupāda: No, that śraddhā has to be increased.
Umāpati: How it is increased?
Prabhupāda: The beginning of śraddhā means firm conviction.
Umāpati: How is it śraddhā does not exist in one person, and it does exist...
Prabhupāda: No, śraddhā is there. It has to be awakened.
Umāpati: Śraddhā is in every person then.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore I say it is covered. It is covered. That covering has to be taken away. That is called bhajana (indistinct). That is called culture.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Make nicely this picture. Short-cut, at the same time very convincing. (break) Yes?
New Devotee: I'm very new to this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement and I'm not as firm as your devotees. Right now I'm being torn in half. Māyā is so strong and I see so much of what you say. Is there...
Prabhupāda: What is this?
New Devotee: Doubts.
Prabhupāda: What is your doubt?
New Devotee: Mental speculation.
Prabhupāda: So you want to continue it or stop it?
New Devotee: Stop it.
Prabhupāda: Then stop it. Take instruction from the śāstra. Don't speculate. That will not help you. The same example, a child's speculation, "Who is my father?" He will never be successful. But as soon as he asks his mother, "Who is my father?" Immediately knowledge: "Here is your father." Finished.
Dr. Patel: It was by action.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Guṇa, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. Not by birth. Guṇa-karma. Just like you are kṣatriya, but because you have acquired the qualification of medical man and you are working as a medical man, therefore you are medical man. Nobody asked you, "You are a kṣatriya or a brāhmaṇa." You are a medical man.
Dr. Patel: Medical... You know, I think medical work is it brahminical or śūdric also?
Prabhupāda: That we shall consider later on.
Dr. Patel: (laughs) 'Cause I'll not say now so that I will drive out my doubt about me.
Prabhupāda: It is half-brāhmaṇa.
Dr. Patel: No, that is all right. At least, little brāhmaṇa is good.
Guest (2): It is vaidyic. All vaidyas are brāhmaṇas.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, vaidyas means father brāhmaṇa, mother śūdra. That is vaidya.
Dr. Patel: They are sūtas.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Viṣṇujana: Thirty years now.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Thirty years they are struggling for United Nations, big, big expenditure, so many humbug, bharam udvahato vimūḍhān, humbug program, and no result. Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "I am thinking, I am, only for these rascals. They're making humbug program, but there is no action. And for temporary, so-called happiness, without God consciousness. I am simply thinking of them. Otherwise, personally, I have no problem." This was spoken by Prahlāda Mahārāja to Nṛsiṁha-deva. Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). (break) ...business has become like Prahlāda Mahārāja. We can chant anywhere. That's all right. Kṛṣṇa will provide everything. We have no business to do. But we have to take them because we are sympathizer, that so many people are being killed by this modern civilization. They had the opportunity to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, but by the set-up of this rascal civilization, they are being killed spiritually. Therefore we have to take it. (break) ...devotee, personally, he has no problem, but he pushes himself in this degraded society to teach them how to live, how to become gentlemen. Therefore... Otherwise, we have no business. But if we don't give them the opportunity, they'll not be able to come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break) ...it will be good for you because Kṛṣṇa will see, "Oh, here is My devotee. He's doing so much for me." Your service will be recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Don't think that because you are teaching a śūdra how to work like this, you have become a śūdra. You are not śūdras, any circumstances. Even though you teach to a śūdra how to work like a śūdra. (break) ...stand. Don't misunderstand. Clearly understand what is the purpose. Is there doubt? Or it is clear?
Satsvarūpa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No, there are more.... (break) (?) ...instruction of spiritual master, that is actually communicating.
Devotee: Hm. (break)
Harikeśa: ...which I've always been afraid to ask, because I don't know if it's proper, but you being the external manifestation of Supersoul, if we are having questions, doubts, when, in your absence, if we are receiving indications, is there any possible way that someone who is so conditioned can have any understanding of proper action in your absence? In other words, if I am in your absence and I am in great doubt, and I am praying to Supersoul to please save me somehow, if I receive some action which I must do or some course of action becomes obvious, should I trust that, considering that you're communicating with me, or...?
Prabhupāda: That depends on purity. If one has become pure, without any material desire, then that is possible. But if there is some material desire, we cannot expect direct communication.
Harikeśa: So I have much material desire.
Prabhupāda: I do not say you or he. This is the process. This is the process.
Harikeśa: But in the meantime...
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Harikeśa: ...until we have reached the pure state...
Prabhupāda: In the meantime it is not possible...
Harikeśa: Not possible.
Prabhupāda: ...directly.
Prabhupāda: Ah, because unless we are completely purified, Kṛṣṇa will, does not talk directly. Therefore you have to understand Kṛṣṇa through the spiritual master.
Harikeśa: So when we are having doubts, the only possible way, no matter what the indications are, are simply follow your instructions in all circumstances.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Harikeśa: Right. (break)
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa wanted instruction of guru, not directly.
Harikeśa: Kṛṣṇa's...
Prabhupāda: That, that I was explaining in the morning.
Harikeśa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Caitya-guru. One has to take the order of Kṛṣṇa through the media, via media of spiritual master.
Harikeśa: So all of my activities, unless they are directly following your order, are more or less a concoction of my mind.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...office, you cannot contact the proprietor directly. There are subordinate officers. Through them you have to take the proprietor's help. The office master is there. You have to satisfy the office master. You cannot directly approach the proprietor. If you satisfy the office master, then your promotion and other things is all right. But if you want to... I have got practical experience. One of my friend, he was working in office. So the proprietor was there and many other employees were there. So that my friend, he suggested something to the proprietor, and the proprietor immediately dismissed him: "Oh, this man want to suggest me. Dismiss immediately. Give him his pay he will require." In that I have got practical experience. He later on became so sorry. Now it is the process. So this is practical. We should not try to approach directly Kṛṣṇa. That is not the right way. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ: (CC Madhya 13.80) "I am the servant of the servant of." So you have to serve your immediate master, dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ, servant of the Supreme Lord. If you want to jump over the original master, that is not good. Then you will be dismissed like, like my friend.
Prabhupāda: Either you... Directly it is not possible to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore mad-āśrayaḥ means "one who has taken shelter of Me." That is paramparā system. You take shelter of Him. Then the result will be asaṁśayaḥ.
Passerby: Hello.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Asaṁśayaḥ means at the present moment...
Guest (1): Without any doubts.
Prabhupāda: No... People are in doubt whether there is God, or "If there is God, He might have died by this time." So there are so many... (laughs) Yes. When I first went to U.S.A., the theory was "God is dead." But when I began to speak, they realized, "No, God is not dead. God is with Swamiji." They wrote. They wrote articles. So asaṁśayaṁ...
Mr. Sar: Samagraṁ māṁ. From all aspects.
Prabhupāda: From all aspects. Yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu. So Kṛṣṇa is speaking about Himself. We can speculate about God. That way we'll never be successful. Because we have got limited senses. Therefore you hear from Kṛṣṇa about Kṛṣṇa. This is called bhakti-yoga.
Mr. Sar: And He wants to tell the jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānam (BG 7.2). "What I have realized, I tell you."
Prabhupāda: No, not realized!
Mr. Sar: No, my doubt is that some people must have become siddha in this age also, must have seen Kṛṣṇa.
Guest: Oh yes. Why not?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). Even siddhas cannot see.
Mr. Sar: Yatatām api. But then there must be somebody of the siddhas...
Prabhupāda: Means... Those siddhas were satisfied, "Now I have become Brahman."
Mr. Sar: No, not those siddhas, satisfied.
Prabhupāda: And still, after that,
- brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā
- na śocati na kāṅkṣati
- samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
- mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
- (BG 18.54)
One is engaged in bhakti. They also, after many, many years, will understand what is Kṛṣṇa.
Mr. Sar: But in this age there must be some people...
Prabhupāda: There is always. Not in this age or that age.
Mr. Sar: Every, every, every...
Prabhupāda: Everywhere, every age.
Italian Man (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: If you have got any doubt, you can still ask.
Italian Man (1): Maybe... May I emphasize... (break)
Prabhupāda: We have got your photo. So... but the difference is that your photograph and you are different. Because the photograph is of the temporary body, therefore it is not absolute. But Kṛṣṇa, being everything, Kṛṣṇa's photograph is also Kṛṣṇa.
Italian Man (1): Yes, okay, thank you. Thank you.
Prabhupāda: Is it all right?
Italian Man (1): Yes, thank you.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is everything. So His photograph is also Kṛṣṇa. It is not that foolish people, they worship a photograph. No. It is reality. It is reality. Yes. (break) Kṛṣṇa is everything. Can you explain? That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Who can explain? Explain, yes.
Prabhupāda: No, therefore people do not like to become Vaiṣṇava, actually. Yasyāham anughṛṇāmi. That is the first installment of his mercy. Yasyāham anughṛṇāmi hariṣye... You know this. It was questioned by Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira.
Dr. Patel: Yes, I have gone through this.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...a little doubtful that Kṛṣṇa is the Lakṣmī-pati, Nārāyaṇa, and those who are devotees of Kṛṣṇa, they become poorer. And Lord Śiva, who has no even a residential house, he lives under the tree, and the devotees of Lord Śiva they become opulent. So what is the reason? So this was questioned by Mahārāja Yudhisthira to Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa first answered that yasyaham anughrnami harisye tad-dhanam sanaiḥ: "This is the first installment of My mercy." (break)
Dr. Patel: ...Mahābhārata. I think produced by, in Baroda.
Prabhupāda: I have got Mahābhārata. Not that published by the Gita Press.
Dr. Patel: They are all, really they have made it... For forty years they collected all the books...
Prabhupāda: Anyway, I have got this Mahābhārata.
Dr. Patel: That is costing about three thousand rupees. (everyone talking) (break) But is it not animal food?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: That's it.
Prabhupāda: No, no, animal, mother's milk also animal food.
Prabhupāda: That is, means rascal. He does not see Kṛṣṇa's wonderful. If you want to see wonderful things, why don't you see the more wonderful things? But they are foolish; they are captivated with small wonderful things. That means less intelligent. Just like small children, they will be amazed by seeing small wonderful things, but his father will not be. What is the amazement, wonderful thing, Sai Baba has done? If he is creator of gold, then why he is doing business of incense? You know that? He has a big incense business exactly like us. He can create gold? Why there is incense business? (break) Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to give to His mother some gold when there was need of money. "Mother, I got this gold. So you can utilize it." The mother would think that "We are poor men, we have no gold. Wherefrom this boy brings gold?" So he (she) was doubtful because he (she) was thinking, "My son is mad, sometimes crazy." So he (she) would go, "Is it real gold? Just see." Then. "Yes, it is real gold." "Hm, how He got it?" You see. (break) ...many yogis, they make such gold for meeting their expenditures. Yes. Still in India they know how to make gold from copper. Yes. The process is they will drink mercury at night, and in the morning they will urine on the copper coins. And then, after some hours, the copper coins taken and put into the fire, it becomes gold. And it is scientific that some molecules of mercury, if mixed with copper, it is gold. Gold is combination of mercury and copper. But the people cannot mix it. They have tried. That is called alchemist. They tried to mix it. Because they do not know the process, as soon as mercury is put into fire, it immediately goes out. You melt copper, and in hot copper, if you put mercury, it will not melt together. Immediately it will throw away. So some of the yogis, they know. They digest copper, er, mercury, and it comes in the form, urine. And then the copper is put there. There is an interaction, and then put into fire. It becomes gold.
Prabhupāda: Brahmaloka. No highest Brahmaloka, where Lord Brahmā lives.
Yaduvara: "There was beating of drums, and being inspired by godly feelings, the residents of Gandharvaloka began to play on their tamburās to please the Lord. Once when he was..." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...what is God. Such innocent. You see? They thought, "Might be some demigod." That's all.
Yaduvara;: "O Nanda Mahārāja, we are now in great doubt. Your son Kṛṣṇa must be one of the demigods." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Yaduvara: "And he saved all honest men from the hands of the dishonest." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...Vṛndāvana inhabitants, they are always anxious how to save the cows, always. They are connected with cows.
Yaduvara: "Thus ends the Bhaktivedanta purport of the Twenty-sixth chapter of Kṛṣṇa, Wonderful Kṛṣṇa." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...only Indra, even an ordinary person, he thinks he is all in all.
Richard Webster: Do you think it's worse now than it used to be? Can you say that it is worse, the condition of the world is worse now than it used to be or is it relatively the same or...?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, yes. Worse now in these days because people cannot eat even. The facility which is given to the birds and beasts... They have no problem of eating. But you have created such a civilization that people are facing the problem so acutely that they have no means to eat. Do you think it is progress?
Richard Webster: Well, I would tend to doubt it very much.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the problem.
Richard Webster: But some things have improved.
Prabhupāda: Many countries... Especially we are Indian. We have seen in India. Nowadays there is no eatables. The government cannot supply food, failure, the problem which is not even amongst the beasts and birds. The birds and beasts, they have no such problem. They are freely living, jumping from one tree to another, because they know there is no problem of eating. And human society, there is problem of eating. What is the advancement? And there is enough place for producing food. I have seen Africa, Australia. Enough place. If the foodstuff is produced there, ten times of the population can be well fed. But they are: "Don't enter. Don't come here." The Africans will say to the Indians, "Don't come here. Go out." What is this? Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice. We say, "Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. We are all sons of Kṛṣṇa. Let us live peacefully and utilize Kṛṣṇa's property." This is the best philosophy.
Prabhupāda: That active principle, life, or living soul.
Professor Durckheim: Yes, how do you teach them to become aware of it? You see, now I listen, and that is, if you like, first a philosophy which contains the truth. I don't doubt it. But how to make feel?
Prabhupāda: It is very simple thing. Just like a body is moving, and body is not moving. So there is an active principle which makes the body moving, and when it is absent, it is not moving. Now, the question will be: "What is that active principle?" Athāto brahma jijñāsā. First of all let him distinguish what is the difference between this dead body and living body. If a student is unaware of it, he can see that on account of the active principle, the body is changing, the body is moving, and in the absence of the active principle, neither the body changes, neither moves. Just like in our childhood we used to think that the gramophone box, there is a man, and he is speaking from the box. This is a childish suggestion only, but similarly, anyone can think that within this body there is something which is making the body moving. It is not very big philosophy.
Prabhupāda: That is the qualities of the highest intelligent class of men. So if you do not find such qualities, how his knowledge should be perfect? These are the qualities. (German)
Vedavyāsa: He doubts that everyone is convinced about that.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh?
Vedavyāsa: He's doubting if we should convince them of that.
Prabhupāda: Well, who is not self-controlled, he'll not be convinced because he'll think that he's rebellious, "I can do anything what I like. I can eat whatever I like." Now how he will like this idea of self-control?
Professor Durckheim: But one question, you see. These virtues have been always asked for by Christian churches also, exactly the same. But then today we realize that the virtues are on one level with the vices. But there's something different. If you pass through the (indistinct) step you get somewhere, you see where we can understand, for instance, if Christ says "Let the dead bury their dead." A phrase like this appeals to a different level. So I think as long as you...
Prabhupāda: No. It is not different level. The advice is given according to the time, person. So if people follow Lord Christ and, I mean to say, instruction that is also perfect. But they do not follow.
Dr. P. J. Saher: To know the name, because I...
Prabhupāda: To know. Why you are doubtful? There is name. If you do not know take it from us. (chuckling) Why you deny that?
Dr. P. J. Saher: There's thousands and millions of...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Here is one name. Why don't you take it?
Dr. P. J. Saher: No. I say millions of names. I'm looking for the name and...
Prabhupāda: Yes. But if I've given you the name why don't you take it?
Dr. P. J. Saher: Because I'm not convinced that is the right name.
Prabhupāda: That is your misfortune. (everyone laughs) That is your misfortune. Yes. (German) How can I help? (German) You do not know the name, if somebody is informing you, "Here is the name," he still will not take. That is your misfortune. What can be done? A misfortunate man cannot be helped. That's right. So here is the authority. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām.
Prabhupāda: That is sense. Otherwise nonsense, that's all. It is up to us to take up the sense or nonsense. The direction is there. What Arjuna said?
Satsvarūpa:
- arjuna uvāca
- naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā
- tvat-prasādān mayācyuta
- sthito 'smi gata-sandehaḥ
- kariṣye vacanaṁ tava
- (BG 18.73)
"Arjuna said, My dear Kṛṣṇa, O infallible one, my illusion is now gone. I have regained my memory by Your mercy, and I am now firm and free from doubt and am prepared to act according to Your instructions."
Prabhupāda: This is sense.
Bhūrijana: Prabhupāda, I think my illusion is not yet dispelled.
Prabhupāda: Then unfortunate.
Bhūrijana: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Continue. (laughter) Who can check?
Bhūrijana: I want to understand in this sense though, exactly how far your instructions are because I know I want to do it, what you say, but I am not exactly...
Prabhupāda: You are old student.
Bhūrijana: Yeah.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (1): Let's just say I would like to ask a question in this way. We don't doubt what you said, the assumption that individual ego is eternal and also subordinate to that which is eternal, hierarchically higher, nevertheless is the part of that which is the eternal reality. And that is (indistinct) that which you later developed. Question, sir: Is this statement what you made, a statement of fact based on direct perception, or it is something what follows traditional belief and is just the axiomatic basis of your philosophy or similar other philosophies of axiomatic basis.
Prabhupāda: No, this is axiomatic basis because you have to accept that your senses are imperfect. So you, by speculation, cannot have perfect knowledge. This is axiomatic truth.
Guest (1): With that epistemological truth, all right we may go along, and, as a matter of fact, doubt about the truths of direct sensual perception is the basis, one of models of scientific activity.
Prabhupāda: Direct perception...
Guest (1): My question is, rather, this statement, this basic statement about eternal ego and so on, is a statement which you somehow give to us as revealed message, something what is...,
Prabhupāda: Yes, revealed.
Hṛdayānanda: They still have doubts on this point that how can we know that it's worth our trouble, that if we dedicate our lives to this searching for the transcendence, how can we be sure that at the end of it we won't have wasted our lives? How can we be sure that the transcendence is actually worth searching for?
Prabhupāda: No, first of all you must understand the importance of the business. Then we can do it. If you do not understand the importance of the business, then you cannot do it.
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He says that he feels that you've already answered this question, but that they didn't catch it, that he thinks the key is that you said that the truth is not outside, but it's actually within us. We have to find it within us.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He says why do you put so much emphasis on the personalism after liberation because it seems like to him that the ideal perfect thing would be the unity rather than having something separate.
Prabhupāda: That is your ideal, imperfect ideal. Because you are imperfect.
Professor: Are you perfect master?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, because I am heard from the perfect. I am not perfect, but what I say, that is perfect. Just like a child does not know what is this dictaphone, but he has learned from the father, "This is dictaphone," so when he says, "This is dictaphone," it is perfect. The child is not perfect, but because he has heard from his father perfect, so the knowledge is perfect.
Tripurāri: Sometimes the devotees question, "What is the best book to distribute, Caitanya-caritāmṛta or Bhagavad-gītā?" We're thinking all of them are absolute. It does not matter.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is just like sugar doll. Anywhere touch—it is sweet. That's all. When I read books, I open anywhere. Any book I take, and anywhere I open, and I read.
Devotee (3): Sometimes we feel like... I know myself personally, if I'm distributing, like, Second Volumes of Caitanya-caritāmṛtas I have this doubt, this feeling that it's sometimes hard for me to understand Caitanya-caritāmṛta, and I feel like the karmī, he will open the book, and he will look into it, and he will become offended because he won't be able to understand hardly a word of it.
Prabhupāda: No, Caitanya-caritāmṛta is not meant for ordinary person. Bhagavad-gītā, Īśopaniṣad and other thing...
Tripurāri: Kṛṣṇa book?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa. They will read as story book. The Kṛṣṇa trilogy is selling very nice?
Tripurāri: Yes. Nectar of Devotion also.
Prabhupāda: Nectar of Devotion is very nice.
Indian man: We can join them also.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Indian man: Oh, I thought Kṛṣṇa conscious only for this...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Any association which is Kṛṣṇa conscious, you can join.
Indian man: Thank you for the enlightenment. But I have got one other doubt. You had told that some great scholars like Mahatma Gandhi had confused and they did not believe in the Kṛṣṇa living, He ever lived, and Dr. Radhakrishnan and another also were not clear in enunciating the theory of Kṛṣṇa. I would like to know whether Kṛṣṇa living or not living, is it very important? And will the movement depends upon one Kṛṣṇa living, positive...
Prabhupāda: No, no. No, no. Kṛṣṇa is never not living—He is living. Otherwise how He can be Kṛṣṇa? But if you do not know whether He is living or not living, that is your lack of knowledge.
Indian man: Do you believe Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: No, first of all settle up this one question, that Kṛṣṇa is always living, and if you do not know whether Kṛṣṇa is living or not living, then your knowledge is imperfect. Therefore your knowledge will not be accepted, because you are imperfect. That is the point.
Prabhupāda: So, drama is good. Woman dancing will not be very much appreciated here. (break) ...scarcity of grains and government will exact taxes for poor-feeding, and it will be used for their own purpose. These are the Kali symptoms. (break) ...stay in future.
Guest (1) (Indian man): Are they doubting for themselves or for us?
Prabhupāda: For us.
Guest (1): They should doubt for themselves.
Prabhupāda: No, apart from that, now, from logical point of view...
Guest (1): Our movement, this movement, is Kṛṣṇa's own movement.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that they may not... I mean to say, from mundane argument, we are selling these twenty lakhs of worth books monthly, so it is being spread all over the world. And those who are purchasing books, they are intelligent men. Then when they will read, how this movement will stop?
Guest (1): It will never stop.
Prabhupāda: It will not stop. The books distribution is so important, that it will continue to stay.
Satsvarūpa: They doubt that our devotees will stick many times.
Prabhupāda: Never mind. We will create by distributing books new devotees. These devotee may be... But others will be created. And we are creating a new generation for becoming devotee at Dallas.
Amogha: And he ate a big plate of prasādam. He liked it very much. So he was saying that perhaps we can have some regular comparative religion course in the school, and when we show the students, tell them about Hare Kṛṣṇa movement as a study, about, as he calls it, our religion, so they can also come in a bus to the temple.
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Amogha: The students will come in a bus and see how we chant and have some prasādam.
Prabhupāda: It is a good reception. So that is still going on?
Amogha: It hasn't started yet. This is the plan. But sometimes he hesitates, because he has doubts.
Prabhupāda: Superstition. That is superstition.
Amogha: He gets in bad association, and then he begins to doubt a little bit, I think.
Prabhupāda: You do your duty, that's all. (pause) What is this? Stone or something?
Amogha: Part of the street I think. I think it's sandstone from the beach. (pause) Many politicians are afraid that Australia may be attacked by the Communists. Everyone is very much afraid of what could happen in the future, because the United States is becoming weaker.
Prabhupāda: Now they are indulging homosex, how they will become strong? And the students, they are discussing, that means they are having. The stamina is being lost. Now what they have created, it will be lost.
Prabhupāda: What?
Carol: Can you have perfect knowledge,...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Carol: I mean ultimately you might say that I might be able to have some, but it's still a bit doubtful. In the near future how could you ever...
Prabhupāda: Perfect knowledge you can immediately, provided you take knowledge from the perfect. If you receive knowledge from a bogus person, then how you can have perfect knowledge? Knowledge has to be received from a person. Why shall I go to a school, college, teachers, guru? To receive knowledge. So if your teacher, guru or parent, those who are your superior, if they are perfect, then you get perfect knowledge. But if your teacher is a bogus, then you get bogus knowledge.
Carol: And this is immediate, is it?
Amogha: She says is this immediate, the reception of perfect knowledge?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like we are giving knowledge from Bhagavad-gītā. This is perfect knowledge. You take it; you become perfect.
Prabhupāda: Therefore we should advocate that Bhagavad-gītā is not like that. It is coming in the same form as it was taught to Arjuna. If you challenge that "How you know that it has not been changed?" the ācāryas are there. The ācāryas are there, and they are accepting. Therefore it is correct. We have to follow the ācāryas. So when we see the ācāryas have accepted, then we accept. All the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, before that other ācāryas also, they accept. They never say that "This was not in the original scripture. It has been changed." You don't find any such statement of the ācāryas. The best thing, therefore, if you want a religious system, Bhagavad-gītā is coming without any contradiction, change, for the last five thousand years. You accept it. Other scriptures are (unclear), and there are so many doubts, so many interpretations. So, if you want real religious system, this is the scripture spoken directly by God, and accepted by all the ācāryas, so take it. If you are really after God, so you take enlightenment from this perfect scripture. If you want truth, it doesn't matter wherefrom it is coming. I must accept the truth.
Paramahaṁsa: The Christians openly admit that the Bible has been changed, but they also have a lot of doubt about our scripture.
Prabhupāda: No, even they doubt, the Christian religion is now dead. That we see practically. So many churches are not working. Nobody comes there. Nobody comes.
Paramahaṁsa: As they have seen that their scripture has been changed, they also have a very strong doubt about our scripture. They say "Well, yours in even older than ours," so somewhere along the line they say it must have been changed.
Prabhupāda: You say, but those who are the followers of the authorities, they do not say. You are outsider. You say it may be. It may not be, but you have no authority. You are simply taking a hypothesis, "it may be." But those who actually are following, they do not say. What about this? Whose version is more important? Your or theirs? You are outsider. You are simply suggesting because you had a bad experience. But one who has no such experience, why should he follow your advice?
Paramahaṁsa: Actually if anyone looks at Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, presented by yourself, then they can logically see that it is perfect.
Prabhupāda: Yes, we have got our argument, logic, everything. Why should we blindly follow?
Gaṇeśa: The results can be seen practically that those who are following the Bhagavad-gītā written by you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, are giving up these nonsense activities.
Prabhupāda: Letters are posted?
Paramahaṁsa: No, not yet.
Prabhupāda: The rascal could not compromise here, they're going in the sky. All mental concoction.
Gaṇeśa: They actually have never got to the moon.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Amogha: He says did they actually get to the moon or not?
Prabhupāda: That I am doubtful. Always. (break) ...doubt always. They have... They might have gone... Mostly, most probably they have not gone. Simply propaganda. But even they have gone, not to moon. Maybe the Rahu planet. Or there are so many other planets.
Amogha: Is that Rahu planet closer than the moon to the earth?
Prabhupāda: Rahu planet orbit is in between moon and sun. So when it comes in between moon and sun there is eclipse. At night it is eclipse in the moon, and daytime it is eclipse in the sun.
Amogha: They used to think that because there is overpopulation we will go to another planet and then begin living there.
Prabhupāda: No question of overpopulation. There are so many land. You do not know how to live. There is no question of overpopulation. You want to live like cats and dogs. Therefore you fight; there is scarcity. If you live properly, there is no question of scarcity. (break) Otherwise it is perfect. Everything is perfect. There is no question of inconvenience. You live according to the direction of Bhagavad-gītā; there is no question of scarcity, inconvenience, overpopulation. Everything is made.
Amogha: Miles from the earth.
Prabhupāda: 459,000?
Amogha: 250,000 miles from the earth. They say it is very near the earth and that the sun is very far away.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...circumstances, it is now doubtful whether they are going to the moon planet.
Amogha: Yes. (break)
Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Paramahaṁsa: In the newspaper yesterday there was an article about New York City. The city government is going bankrupt because they... They have asked the President for 1,500 million dollars in emergency aid. Because of crime and dirtiness and noise, all the rich people are leaving New York, and they can't get any taxes from the poor people. So they don't have money to pay to run the city.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I have seen. New York is very dilapidated, many quarters. And especially Second Avenue, those are very dirty. The... On the Fifth Avenue, that Central Park is also very dirty. This civilization will collapse. It cannot be run on. Fourth-class men, I tell. Because it is conducted by the fourth-class men. Ask that gentleman why they are asking. Are they not fourth-class men? They could not manage?
Devotee (2): Is it necessary to see the Deity regularly in order to remain strong?
Prabhupāda: Yes, everything necessary as we have prescribed. If you think that it is not necessary, unnecessary, then you under the māyā. Why do you take that, "Is it necessary?" That means you are not strong enough. You cannot follow; therefore you say, "Is it necessary?" You are considering. That means you are becoming prey to māyā. As soon as you ask this, that means you have already fallen a victim of māyā.
Devotee (1): Kṛṣṇa says "without doubting."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: So how to get those people who are immersed in māyā to become serious? When we go out and we preach our saṅkīrtana movement, how to get...
Prabhupāda: They will become gradually. Not all of a sudden. They are purchasing one book. They will read, and gradually they will be elevated. You go to school, but all of a sudden, you cannot say that "I am M.A." You have to wait. That is called dhairya, utsāhād dhairyāt. One should be very enthusiastic, at the same time, patient. If you think that "I am very enthusiastic; still, I am not getting the result," be patient. Niścayāt. Be sure the result will come, but be patient. These are the ways. Utsāhād dhairyāt niścayāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. You have to follow the regulative principles. Sato vṛtteḥ. You should be honest. You are not following, and still, you say "I am devotee." That means you are not honest. Sato vṛtteḥ sādhu-saṅge, and in the association of devotees. Ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati. By following these six principles, you advance. This is the Rūpa Gosvāmī's instruction.
Yogi Bhajan: Metaphysical, psychics, intuitives, people who can perform things. They are all in God. I was surprised last night that A to Z, everybody talks about God, and none of them understands that the God is right in them. So I was one among them. It did change the whole thing. I honestly believe that it was very good for me to come. If I would have gone to the equals, where if I find some equal, it would not have done any good, you know. They all know what they know. We all know that what we know. But it was amazing that people liked it, people talked, people asked questions, people... Whatever I could share, I shared. But in the evening I was surprised. There were two hundred people, beautiful, seeking some way or the other, and looking for certain things for their life. So my only idea was that I have never worked less than these five, six days. It was very boring for me. There was no work. But I liked it. At least, I could share with them; they could share with me. First they were all doubtful what a yogi is, what a yoga is. I said, "Well, it is... After all, they were not asking me a yogurt. So there is a safety. So people, when people see you they hate you, they find you are different, that you taught something which you taught. They don't like it. They don't want to hear it. And gradually, gradually, gradually, it brings them to understanding. So I, my personal request, and on behalf of all those who are coming, I would like you to visit us if you possibly can and...
Prabhupāda: Give some prasāda.
Yogi Bhajan: And this is... Because this is time of the world where love has to prevail from the higher and from the lower equal.
Prabhupāda: Put it here.
Prabhupāda: Rascal, fool. Therefore it is difficult for you.
Harikeśa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You should not... You understand or not understand, you have to accept it.
Harikeśa: That is why we are asking so many questions about the moon and the planets.
Prabhupāda: Yes, so where is the doubt? It is a fact that they did not go to the moon. That's a fact.
Harikeśa: I'm just trying to understand for preaching purposes.
Prabhupāda: Why do you try to understand?
Harikeśa: Because I have a hard time explaining about the make up of the universe as far as...
Prabhupāda: That make up is all right, what they say?
Harikeśa: What they say?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Ambarīṣa: I won't become become involved in any other project besides Kurukṣetra? Just Kurukṣetra.
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Ambarīṣa: Jaya, okay. Not even New York.
Prabhupāda: New York is still doubtful.
Ambarīṣa: Yes. (break)
Prabhupāda: But that's a good house, New York?
Ambarīṣa: The one that they have or the one that they're trying to buy? (break)
Prabhupāda: They are trying to buy. Did he send them letter by lawyer?
Ambarīṣa: No, I haven't... No, my lawyer called... (break)
Siddha-svarūpa: Well, the surf is no good today.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...another duplicate Pacific?
Siddha-svarūpa: I don't think so.
Prabhupāda: Is it not possible?
Siddha-svarūpa: No, but they're trying to ruin the one that already exists.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) That also not possible. (break) ...let them drop this atom bomb and ruin it.
Prabhupāda: So some professors wanted to see me?
Jayatīrtha: Yes. In fact, one is coming over this afternoon.
Brahmānanda: Today two are coming.
Dharmādhyakṣa: Actually at the University of Southern California around three or four members of the religion department want to come, including the chairman.
Prabhupāda: So let them come. (break)
Bahulāśva: ...yesterday that Indian gentleman, Dr. Singh? He had become very doubtful when you told him they didn't go to the moon. He was saying, "Do you think they really didn't go?" (laughter) He never thought of that before, that they might have just made a show.
Prabhupāda: No. If we believe in our Bhāgavata, they have not gone. It is above the sun planet, 1,600,000 miles above. How they can go?
Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, at night, when we see in the sky that moon, that is the same moon that is above the sun?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You must believe somebody. You believe in God or not?
Peter: Do I believe in God?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Peter: Um...
Prabhupāda: Doubtful. (laughter)
Peter: Yeah, I guess you could say that.
Prabhupāda: So first of all you have to believe yourself that you are part and parcel of God.
Peter: I don't believe that what I experience is necessarily different from what most of the people...
Prabhupāda: What do you believe? Let me know what you believe. That also you do not know?
Peter: Yeah, I don't know what I believe. That's the problem. OK, true. I grew up without a consciousness of God or without even...
Prabhupāda: Without God.
Peter: Well, I wouldn't say without God but without...
Prabhupāda: But without God, how there can be God consciousness?
Peter: So... I don't think that I experience differently than anybody here, but I think that I express that differently. So, what... If I believe in God in my own way, which is maybe expressed...
Prabhupāda: No, our proposition is that you believe or not believe, there is God.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is always there, but yogamāyā-samāvṛtaḥ. He does not know Kṛṣṇa on account of being covered by the curtain of yogamāyā. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yogamāyā-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). But we can make them all happy by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if they follow our instruction, even in this material world. Pūrṇaṁ sukhāyate. Full happiness we can give them if they follow our principle.
Cyavana: They have so many doubts.
Prabhupāda: What is the doubt? Doubt means they cannot drink, they cannot continue slaughterhouse, they cannot continue brothels. That's all. This is their doubt, that "How these things will be maintained? This is our life." That is doubt, and that is the difficulty. As soon as we say, "No this," oh, they are in danger. Even Marquis of Zetland, "Oh, it is impossible to give up. This is our life." There is the difficulty. Otherwise, there is no difficulty. They cannot think of, especially the Westerners, that without these things one can live. So many, our disciples, left. Rāyarāma left: "Oh, Swamiji is denying the preliminary necessities of life." This is the preliminary necessities of life: illicit sex, meat-eating, drinking, gambling. They cannot think that a man can live without these things. Therefore people are wonderful, that "How he is turning these Europeans, Americans to this standard?" That is their wonder. Nobody can think of, that these things can be given up and one can avoid it. It is dream. Your government, American government, is also surprised that "We have spent so much money for stopping this LSD, and this man by saying his disciples, they are giving up." Judah has also mentioned that. That is their surprise—"How these things can be given up? It is impossible."
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He said he can't think of one right now.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. Last night you were present in the meeting? Read our books very carefully, and as soon as there is some doubt, inquire. Here wooden house, practically none.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mostly bricks.
Prabhupāda: Hm. That's good. Wooden house-matchbox. So there is no, I mean to say, fire brigade disturbance.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, there is fire. Yesterday, few weeks ago, across the street in the field there was a bush fire.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. But in your country, always fire brigade: "Dung, dung, dung, dung, dung, tunga, tunga, tunga, gara gara gara..."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, there is always fires in America.
Prabhupāda: Because all wooden house.
Harikeśa: That's become a sport in the cities, to set fire. That's a new sport in the cities for the children. They set fires to big buildings. (end)
Prabhupāda: Bhakti... Just like I have got some official servant, and I have got very confidential servant. So to my confidential servant everything is disclosed. He knows everything. But official servant, he may not know everything. Therefore bhakti is the confidential part of understanding God. Otherwise they understand vaguely, impartially, not sufficiently. In the Bhagavad-gītā there is a verse, mayy āsakta-manā pārtha yoga yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ, samagram, asaṁśaya samagra mā yath jñās... You can quote it. That is the first śloka of the Seventh Chapter.
Pusta Kṛṣṇa:
- sri bhagavān uvāca
- mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha
- yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ
- asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ
- yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu
- (BG 7.1)
"Now hear, O son of Prtha, Arjuna, how by practicing yoga in full consciousness of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from doubt."
Guest: That answers it. Can I have that... Chapter...
Pusta Kṛṣṇa: Bhagavad-gītā, Seventh Chapter, first text. Seven, one.
Guest: Prabhupāda, I believe that answers all the questions I went through before that. We'd just like to say it's been very nice to meet you. We're both, in our own way, trying to find truth ourselves.
Prabhupāda: Asaṁśa... These two words are very important, asaṁśayaṁ, "without any doubt." Everyone, every religion, they have no doubtless understanding of God. Everyone has some doubt. Neither complete. That is only in bhakti-yoga.
Guest: We're just discovering veils of ignorance. We're trying to...
Prabhupāda: Any religious system, ask them, "What do you understand by God?" They will not be able to explain, because that is not complete, not doubtless. Therefore these two words have been used, asaṁśayaṁ samagram.
Guest: Our reading has only drawn forth a lot of conflicting answers so far. We've been reading into Hindu philosophies, and most of the answers conflict with each other.
Prabhupāda: Which book you are reading?
Guest: Well, we've been just reading mainly biographies by swamis and yogis, Aurobindo and Resynthesis of...
Prabhupāda: They have no realization. They have simply jugglery of words. That's all.
Guest: It's new for us, so I'm not very...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Guest: It's very new for us. We've only been doing it for a few months.
Prabhupāda: Read Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.
Guest: I've got it. I am reading it. Each time I read it, I find I read it a little better.
Prabhupāda: Aurobindo has no clear knowledge. And which other swami you are reading?
Guest: We've read... Which one did you read?
Woman: Maharishi.
Prabhupāda: No, he has no idea.
Prabhupāda: Then why you are asking? There're so many worms in your intestine.
Jñāna: For example, the cells in the body. Are they also...
Prabhupāda: Whatever you say, there are many. Cells are not living entities. (break)
Cyavana: That's the beginning. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...come gradually. But this particular body belongs to a particular living entity.
Jñāna: Actually, my doubt was about the cells, whether they were living entities or... (break)
Prabhupāda: Living entity quits this body, no other living entity will be able to...
Cyavana: Maintain.
Prabhupāda: It belongs to the particular. That is the rascal philosophy of the rascal scientists. They say some chemical is missing. Why chemical missing? There are so many other living entities, how they are living? If the chemical is missing, how they are living? This is rascaldom. If you say when the body is dead, the chemical is missing, then why so many hundreds and thousands of microbes are coming? Huh? (Hindi) Therefore I say rascals. (end)
Prabhupāda: Abhimānam. A person without knowledge, when he professes to be very learned and intelligent, he is more in darkness.
Dr. Patel: But really, sir, very learned people are very doubtful about their learning, to tell the truth. I had my professor who was a Nobel prize winner in London, and he used to be very doubtful, everything, what he said. "It may be or may not be. Who knows? God only knows," he used to say. So we cannot say that all are in darkness.
Prabhupāda: So if God knows, take the words of God.
Dr. Patel: That he must be taking I mean, in his own way.
Prabhupāda: In his own way he cannot take. (laughter) That is another di... That is another foolishness. You cannot take... No.
Dr. Patel: There are many ways by which to know God, is it not?
Prabhupāda: You must take God's word as it is. That is jyoti. The same example can be... Just like the sunlight. Sunlight is light. You have to take it as it is. If you want to know wherefrom the light is coming, what is there in the sun, that is beyond your jurisdiction. But light is there. Take it. That's all.
Dr. Patel: Prakṛtir me aṣṭadhā. It is God's prakṛti.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The matter, material nature, is forced upon him. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). He is accepting different bodies according to the contamination of material nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. That he does not know. Ahāṅkara-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). He does not know that there is a superior karta, daiva netreṇa. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantu deha upapattaye (SB 3.31.1). So he is forced to accept a certain kind of body by the material nature. That he does not know. This is non-Aryan. Like dog. He does not know that why he has got this dog's body. He simply has learned how to bark, that's all.
Dr. Patel: (laughs) I have my doubts. How can we know that he is not knowing or knowing? It is our conjecture that he is not knowing.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Śāstra says. You conjecture, but we don't conjecture. We simply repeat what is said in the śāstra. Śāstra-cakṣuṣāt. "Your eyes should be the śāstra, not conjecture." Śāstra says, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. He has become a dog on account of his infection with certain type of material qualities. That is our eyes. We don't conjecture anything. It is naturally may be inquired that "Why one living entity has got this body of a dog and why one living entity has got the body of King Indra?" The śāstra-cakṣuṣāt: kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Śāstra says, Kṛṣṇa says. So it is, reason is, that he has infected the certain type of material modes of nature; therefore he has got. It is very easy. As you, medical man, you know how the disease has come, you have infected the disease. It is that.
Girirāja: It was Jīva Gosvāmī.
Prabhupāda: Jīva Gosvāmī?
Girirāja: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Why Jīva Gosvāmi should not see woman? That is also doubtful.
Dr. Patel: He, he did see Mīrābai.
Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu also never refused to see woman. But womans were offering respect from a distance, that's all. Not very near. But we don't see that He refused to see woman. Why the Goswamis will do that?
Dr. Patel: That is the story going round.
Prabhupāda: Then paṇḍitā sama-darśinaḥ. How it is possible?
Harikesa: There's that story of the one woman who was on His shoulder, on that (sic:) Nṛsiṁha column looking at Lord Jagannātha, and Govinda tried to take her down and Lord Caitanya said no.
Prabhupāda: One woman, out of her eagerness to see Jagannātha, there was big crowd, she jumped up over the shoulder of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and the devotees said, (in an urgent whisper:) "Come on, come on down. What you are doing?" Caitanya: "No, she is so eager to see Jagannātha. Don't disturb. Don't disturb. Let her stand on My shoulder." So there is no question of hating woman. We want simply devotee. That's all. But unless we are very advanced, we take precaution. That is another thing.
Prabhupāda: Hm? First of all finish my Bhāgavatam, then we shall talk of other things.
Indian man: Lord Brahmā took away the cows and the cowherd boys that Kṛṣṇa was playing with. At that time Kṛṣṇa expanded Himself just to (indistinct) about a year or so that these cows are all Kṛṣṇa expansions, but the gopīs were so much (indistinct) to (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa's (indistinct). Now he started, he doubted that gopīs are (indistinct) with Kṛṣṇa because these cowherds and ah, they are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa only, so he was not...
Prabhupāda: Hm. That is called, they were playing the role of human being. (pause)
Indian man: ...would be nearing the portion where that (indistinct) is there. I told Girirāja prabhu, when you were sick, that fever is there, you were having fever, so I...
Prabhupāda: No, I had no fever.
Indian man: When you went to Vṛndāvana? Some...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Indian man: So I was telling my wife, she said that you read that Bhāgavatam, where that Bāṇ(āsura) is there, that Śiva means having, producing jvārā, fever, so Viṣṇujvārā is cold only, so that Viṣṇujvārā will bring down the fever. So you were just reading more Bhāgavatam only, when you are sick. Anybody who is suffering from fever means you read such and such a portion, so it should come down.
Prabhupāda: No, Viṣṇu should not be utilized for curing your fever. (laughter) That is not bhakti. That is business.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So did she understand?
Acyutānanda: Well, only up to transmigration of the soul.
Prabhupāda: She admits.
Acyutānanda: Yes. (break)
Prabhupāda: It was open? If there are any doubt. (break)
Indian man (2): ...all practical things...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man (2): ...political things. Two and two will always be four. But we people don't agree so far.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You want five.
Indian man (2): (laughter) We want five, correct. Four to make it five.
Prabhupāda: There is a story that a grocer's son was doing business, and when he was given a five-rupees' note, so he was giving four rupees. So the customer said, "Why you are giving me four rupees?" "No, I do not know what is the exchange." "No, it is six rupees." So "No, father will be angry." (laughter) Means he knows perfectly well what is five rupees, but he is innocent when he was giving four rupees. And when the customer wanted six rupees, he, "No, my father will be angry." (break) ...created a havoc by misinterpreting Bhagavad-gītā, all people. According to their wish, "Five-rupees note means four rupees," by imagination. They have created havoc all over the world. Otherwise everything is there. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). If we take Kṛṣṇa's instruction, then whole world becomes immediately happy. But they will not take it. They will manufacture their own, two plus two equal to five or three, not exactly the four.
Jayapatāka: We're going to make a women's tent...
Prabhupāda: No, no. You can have a tent. If there is extra men they can live in this tent.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Supposing there are bricks available, should they try to build?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes, immediately.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's better.
Jayapatāka: We can start, but I'm doubtful whether we'll get enough bricks to finished. That's only my point, if I start and don't finish it...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But there's no harm.
Prabhupāda: There is no harm.
Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda said let's do what we can do.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Begin.
Prabhupāda: (break) ..."victorious flag," "Jayapatāka." (break) ...to walk in this place. Very nice. Oh, yes. Sun is rising. (break) ...dolls?
Jayapatāka: No.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Jayapatāka: All the dollmakers have gone to Los Angeles.
Prabhupāda: Oh. All right. (break) ...bricks are available you can begin immediately.
Prabhupāda: And what is Rādhākamal Mukherjee?
Bhavānanda: " 'He has been a prolific writer and commentator and has traveled and discoursed widely in different parts of India. His profound illuminative discourses have everywhere created a genuine interest in Vaiṣṇava philosophy and in the dynamic religious movement he represents.' There may not be any doubt among the well-informed people that the Śrī Caitanya Maṭha, with its branches, Śrī Gauḍīya Maṭhas, throughout India and abroad, have been propagating the greatest religion, which, from a realistic point of view, has helped to build up a true civilization. Today, due to the activities of Śrī Caitanya Maṭha, a spiritual thirst has been created, especially among the deep-thinking and educated people of the world, for people from all over the world are coming to this institution to learn and follow the great religion of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and to understand the practical Indian way of life. Today the headquarter extends over a mile, with beautiful temples, yet standing in an atmosphere of absorbing silence of meditation and worship, surrounded on all sides by emerald green paddy fields and the Ganges flowing hard by, far from the madding crowd's strife and strain. 'Māyāpur is now an enchanted place, the abode of peace. The atmosphere of the place is charming. The chanting of the holy name of Hari all day and night takes one to a celestial place.' "
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We don't hear the chanting from their maṭha all day and night.
Bhavānanda: No, it's only from here. "It is more heavenly than heaven itself. It is the sacred Vṛndāvana of Bengal, hallowed by the dancing steps of the Lord, and its air is purified by His noble call to prayer. Whoever pays a visit to her will leave her with regret, and those who have not yet visited the place will carry their regrets unto death."
Prabhupāda: So he is making some propaganda that he is the...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, just like in the woods the jackal is always crying that he is the king, but who cares for him? What is his qualification?
Prabhupāda: So do we require to...? There is no use.
Prabhupāda: What is that, "positive"?
Acyutānanda: They don't know... Before they were sure. Now they're not sure why the sun shines. They had concocted an idea, and they declared it as a law, a scientific law. Now they have..., again doubting their own law.
Guru-kṛpā: Actually the flavor that's in the flower comes from the different secretion, and by different mixture, different flavors come out.
Prabhupāda: Rascal, what is that mixture?
Guru-kṛpā: By chance.
Prabhupāda: By chance. (laughter)
Guru-kṛpā: Different chance creates different flavors.
Acyutānanda: They have scientists have analyzed. All smells come in seven or eight basic smells: burnt, sweet, bitter... So they said, "A rose is seven sweet, two burnt and one bitter." So they take the chemicals, and it doesn't smell like a rose. They put the seven sweet and the one burnt, and... And it doesn't smell rose. But just the statement that they are no longer chemicals...
Guru-kṛpā: But we can artificially create with our chemicals the smell of the rose.
Sudāmā: Just like now they have created flowers, plastic flowers that give scent.
Guru-kṛpā: Yeah, sure.
Acyutānanda: But they have taken material from the already created, and here's without factory it's made.
Prabhupāda: If you ask for an artist to...
Acyutānanda: But there's no seed in the plastic flower, no seeds to create more.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Electricity is coming?
Lokanātha: Yes, these poles are meant for that.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I doubt, though, if these people can afford.
Prabhupāda: The government can. (break)
Pañcadraviḍa: ...go to beg rice or something, like we were doing for a food program, all the people slam the door in your face. (break)
Pañcadraviḍa: ...went to America, what was your idea of what would be your program when you got there?
Prabhupāda: This idea: I shall speak to don't eat meat, and they'll immediately kick me out. (laughter) That was my program. And I was going to say that "Don't eat meat. No illicit sex," and immediately they will kick me out. "All right." I never thought that you would accept it. That is the idea of my poetry. That is sung, no? You have got that?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And I was asking Kṛṣṇa, "I do not know why You have brought me here. As soon as I will say these things, they will kick me out. What is Your program, I do not know."
Prabhupāda: That is. That is scientist. He thinks himself not fit to make any question. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena (BG 4.34). When the praṇipāta is sufficiently mature, then he can make paripraśna-accompanied by sevā. Otherwise paripraśna is a waste of time. According to our Vedic system, we should not make any question to any person whose answer I cannot accept toto. Then I shall. Otherwise no use of wasting time. Praṇipāta means that you are accepting that "Here I have come. His answer will be complete." No further question. But if there is little doubt, he can submissively make question. Just like Arjuna made question to Kṛṣṇa that "You say millions of years ago You spoke this science to..."
Dr. Patel: Vivasvān.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "But You are of my age. How I can accept this?" And immediately answer was that "Both of us were present. You have forgotten. I have not forgotten." Bas. Accept it. He did not challenge, "How is that? I have forgotten? You did not forget?" And that is nonsense. That is nonsense.
Dr. Patel: Śādhi māṁ tvāṁ prapannam.
Prabhupāda: Yes. As soon as he questions like that, "How is that You have not forgotten? I have forgotten?" it is not good. Then he is not fit for making question. He should not have made question. (break) ...saw the gosvāmī?
Dr. Patel: Have you got them here?
Prabhupāda: I think we have got, eh?
Dr. Patel: The Six Gosvāmīs. I just look at him. American scientists don't come to my rescue. (break) (laughs) (Hindi) Our ātmā.... (Hindi) Kuṇape tri-dhātuke. We are not God conscious, any one of us. Practically hardly for us, small way, perhaps. So we are go-khara, then, in right sense.
Prabhupāda: When he admits that he's a go-khara, he's not go-khara.
Prabhupāda: There is no argument. "You remain yourself. Let us remain peaceful. You remain peaceful. We are following our mahājana." Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). We have got so many exalted mahājanas. Vyāsadeva, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, Nārada, Asita, Devala, Arjuna, in recent, in the recent years, within two thousand years, all the ācāryas. So we are safe. We don't require your help. Bas. If you are satisfied with whatever you have understood, you remain. (break) ...authorities. And the most exalted of them is Kṛṣṇa, so we have no doubt. You cannot make us doubtful. That is not possible.
Guru-kṛpā: But I think they are doubtful, though.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise why they complain? They're doubtful.
Guru-kṛpā: Asaṁśayaṁ samagram.
Prabhupāda: That.... Yes. That verse?
- mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha
- yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ
- asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ
- yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu
- (BG 7.1)
Asaṁśayam: "Without any doubt, and in fullness, as you understand, I'll see to(?)" This is our faith. We have no asaṁśaya, and we have no imperfect understanding. Asaṁśayaṁ samagram. Asaṁśayam means without any doubt, and samagram means in full. You know simply Brahman. That is that full knowledge. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). That's all right. You have come to the light, just like you have come to the sunshine, light, but does not mean that you have gone to the sun globe or you have seen the sun-god. That will take many millions of years to become so perfect. But you have come to the light—that much credit to you. That is ordinary. Everyone sees the sunlight. That does not require much endeavor. But if you want to go to the sun globe and enter there to see the sun-god, then that requires special qualification. So you are ordinary man. You have come to the light from darkness. That much credit to you, that's all.
Prabhupāda: They.... Those who have no conception, that is another thing. But those who talk of God, that there is God or there is no God, what is the conception of God? That is.... Why do they say there is no God? Why do they say there is God? Somebody accept there is God. Somebody does not accept. So, there are two causes.
Hari-śauri: The basic principle is that God is there, so you either accept or reject Him.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) One is doubtful or one is convinced. God is there. One is doubtful, he says "There is no God." My question is why the question of God is there?
Devotee (1): General consensus is that when one is in need of God, then they accept God. They don't think that out of knowledge...
Prabhupāda: Therefore I am asking what is the conception, why they need, why they do not need. First of all describe food. There is some idea, that food is like this. Then the question of food. If there is no need of food, then why is this food question?
Devotee (1): Just like the child wants to be protected by the parent, they're thinking that..., therefore people are feeling that they want to be protected by God. The child is always seeking protection from the parent.
Prabhupāda: There is necessity of God. Just like the child, there is necessity of the parents, a parent is there. Similarly, you feel necessity of God, God is there. Feeling the necessity of parent, the parents are there. Similarly, if you feel necessity of God, then God is there.
Hṛdayānanda: "The Lord has described various kinds of knowledge, processes of religion, knowledge of the Supreme Brahman, knowledge of the Supersoul, knowledge of the different types of orders and statuses of social life, knowledge of the renounced order of life, knowledge of nonattachment, sense and mind control, meditation, etc. He has described in so many ways different types of religion. Now in summarizing Bhagavad-gītā, the Lord says that Arjuna should give up all the processes that have been explained to him; he should simply surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That surrender will save him from all kinds of sinful reactions, for the Lord personally promises to protect him. In the Eighth Chapter it was said that only one who has become free from all sinful reactions can take to the worship of Lord Kṛṣṇa. Thus one may think that unless he is free from all sinful reactions he cannot take to the surrendering process. To such doubts it is here said that even if one is not free from all sinful reactions, simply by the process of surrendering to Śrī Kṛṣṇa he is automatically freed. There is no need of strenuous effort to free oneself from sinful reactions. One should unhesitatingly accept Kṛṣṇa as the supreme savior of all living entities. With faith and love, one should surrender unto Him. According to the devotional process, one should simply accept such religious principles that will lead ultimately to the devotional service of the Lord. One may perform a particular occupational duty according to his position in the social order, but if by executing his duty one does not come to the point of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all his activities are in vain. Anything that does not lead to the perfectional stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be avoided. One should be confident that in all circumstances Kṛṣṇa will protect him from all difficulties. There is no need of thinking how one should keep the body and soul together. Kṛṣṇa will see to that. One should always think himself helpless and should consider Kṛṣṇa the only basis for his progress in life. As soon as one seriously engages himself in devotional service to the Lord in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness, at once he becomes freed from all contamination of material nature. There are different processes of religion and purificatory processes by cultivation of knowledge, meditation in the mystic yoga system, etc., but one who surrenders unto Kṛṣṇa does not have to execute so many methods. That simple surrender unto Kṛṣṇa will save him from unnecessarily wasting time. One can thus make all progress at once and be freed from all sinful reaction. One should be attracted by the beautiful vision of Kṛṣṇa. His name is Kṛṣṇa because He is all-attractive. One who becomes attracted by the beautiful, all-powerful, omnipotent vision of Kṛṣṇa is fortunate. There are different kinds of transcendentalists—some of them are attached to the impersonal Brahman vision, some of them are attracted by the Supersoul feature, etc., but one who is attracted to the personal feature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and, above all, one who is attracted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead as Kṛṣṇa Himself, is the most perfect transcendentalist. In other words, devotional service to Kṛṣṇa in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the most confidential part of knowledge, and this is the essence of the whole Bhagavad-gītā. Karma-yogīs, empiric philosophers, mystics, and devotees are all called transcendentalists, but one who is a pure devotee is the best of all. The particular words used here, mā śucaḥ, 'Don't fear, don't hesitate, don't worry,' are very significant. One may be perplexed as to how one can give up all kinds of religious forms and simply surrender unto Kṛṣṇa, but such worry is useless."
Prabhupāda: So it takes one second.
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Everything. God is omniscient, so a pure devotee can become omniscient by the grace of God.
Rādhāvallabha: Śrīla Prabhupāda explains that Varuṇa is omniscient.
Duryodhana-guru: Varuṇa?
Rādhāvallabha: It's in Fourth Canto.
Madhusūdana: Śrīla Prabhupāda, how come that in the śāstra sometimes there are verses that are slightly doubtful about...
Prabhupāda: Whenever there is doubtful, go to your...
Madhusūdana: Just like it will have something that has perhaps two meanings, you can't...
Prabhupāda: Huh? There cannot be two meanings. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to understand, go to your guru.
Madhusūdana: In other words, sometimes it says Kṛṣṇa comes Himself, and actually the meaning is that He comes as His incarnation like Lord Buddha, but the verse seems to say that it's the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself, and without your purport it's not possible..., it's almost left so that you can be fooled, as if it's a covering, a special covering so that nondevotees cannot understand it.
Prabhupāda: The Supreme Personality cannot come? It is said there?
Madhusūdana: No, it says He comes in the form of Lord Buddha, but I remember it was a great misunderstanding that Buddha was...
Prabhupāda: He can come in any form He likes, not particularly as Lord Buddha. He's coming as fish, He's coming as tortoise, He's coming as boar, so why as Lord Buddha?
Prabhupāda: Maybe. But the list is there: jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. There are 900,000 different forms, and how many we have seen? There is information in the śāstra. Paśavas triṁśal-lakṣāṇi. Three million different types of animals.
Hari-śauri: We've seen a few hundred at most.
Prabhupāda: That's all. (laughs) That is also doubtful.
Rāmeśvara: Kṛṣṇa incarnates into every species of life. He can appear in any form.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise, why the form came? Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). If we have to accept this sūtra, that everything emanates from Him, so unless Kṛṣṇa has got such similar form...?
Hari-śauri: That's one argument that always defeats the impersonalists. They can't explain how forms have come from something without form.
Prabhupāda: Impersonalists are neophytes. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "With poor fund of knowledge." Their knowledge is imperfect.
Rāmeśvara: His name is Jay Warner.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I.... Ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ:"Anything which is accepted by leading men, that is accepted by others." So you are one of the leading men in the society, lawyer. If you understand our philosophy, then many others will follow. So kindly try to understand our philosophy thoroughly, and then others will follow: "He's big lawyer. He's a Kṛṣṇa conscious man." If you have any doubt, you can ask. We will try to explain. Asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu (BG 7.1). Find out this verse. (break) It must be distinct from other paintings.
Kīrtanānanda: Who did that painting?
Prabhupāda: I think that was done.... Everyone has done one picture.
Hari-śauri: That picture of Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva killing all the demon armies, it's a most amazing picture. He has about twenty arms.
Jay Warner: I do have one question. How can one establish faith in the principle of reincarnation? How can one come to believe in it?
Prabhupāda: Incarnation of God?
Devotees: Reincarnation, transmigration.
Prabhupāda: That is very simple thing. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Now, you were a child. That's a fact. Were you not a child?
Hṛdayānanda: You were a child before.
Satsvarūpa: People in the classes, when the students say that that they do not see God, there is no proof for God, I give that argument you give. I say, "Well, I am a common layman, I have no proof that we've actually gone to the moon. At least I haven't gone to the moon. Show me right away that you can prove it me." They say, "Well, we have rocks, they brought back rocks." "I don't believe that they are from the moon." They are astonished that I..., we could actually doubt. (laughter)
Ambarīṣa: There is another planet that is close to the earth that they could have gone to, isn't there?
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) some petrol station in the sky?
Ambarīṣa and Satsvarūpa: I never heard that.
Hari-śauri: They've been planning all kinds of space laboratories and things like that.
Prabhupāda: No, there was some plan that there would be...
Satsvarūpa: Another planet?
Prabhupāda: No, intermediate station for supplying petrol.
Hari-śauri: For airplanes?
Prabhupāda: Yes. There was some suggestion. (Bengali) ...why Sunday first, and Monday second, all over the world?
Satsvarūpa: Sun, moon.
Prabhupāda: Why not to take our work in Māyāpur? (break)
Devotee (1): ...letter, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He never returned it. (break)
Satsvarūpa: ...half of what he says isn't true. I would doubt that all these claims are even true. He says things and then they turn out not to be true.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: He came on my bus for a week.
Satsvarūpa: He's nice, but I don't think he has all that aristocratic background that he claims.
Devotee (1):...by the results. What a man can do?
Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was noticing as we walk that there are so many trash cans, but no one throws their trash in the can. There are so many trash cans, but none of the karmīs are throwing their trash in the can. They just don't care. They throw it along the road.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda was pointing out that at seven o'clock in the morning you'll see everyone in the liquor stores, but they don't organize them to come and clean. You were mentioning that everyone is lining up to buy liquor in the morning with their money from the government. They don't work. But instead the government should have them working cleaning the parks, but they are not expert managers. (break) ...in the early hours the people are sweeping the streets, cleaning.
Devotee (1): People in America, they don't care, they don't care to even walk five steps to drop a paper in a can.
Makhanlāl: In the Upadeśāmṛta, in the eleventh verse, it says that if one takes his bath even once in the Rādhākuṇḍa he immediately awakens his love for Kṛṣṇa. I was wondering, some of those who have had the opportunity to take bath in Rādhākuṇḍa, it seems though it may take some time. I was wondering, is that because we don't see time in the proper perspective?
Prabhupāda: Why do you go to Rādhākuṇḍa? Unless there is some awakening of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Hari-śauri: Yes, at that time, anything that was made in England automatically was considered first class.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, any rascal thing. They made a good market. And British Empire means to sell their goods. And they, for that purpose, they became rich. Money was drawn from all parts, especially from India. Everything. Later on, gradually we came to understand. In Lucknow, because I was in medical business, so I saw one Japanese salesman was selling one medicine, one or two items, potassiodide. Do you know? No. Potassium iodide. And another, iodine. He was selling at four rupees, eight annas a pound. But we were accustomed to purchase English potassiodide and iodine, thirteen rupees a pound. That Howard's.... Very famous, Howard's chemicals, like that. They were selling. So I doubted that "How so much cheap this Japanese firm can supply?" And they used to advertise that all these Japanese goods are third class. Yes, "German goods are second class. Our goods, first class." So I inquired from the salesman, "How is it that you are supplying so cheap?" "They're supplying.... The price is the real price." "Now why they charge more?" "They purchase from us and pack and sell." There are many big chemical concerns in Germany. Germans are very good manufacturers, especially of chemicals, iron, machine. Still you find, all this Uher and, what is called, Gundsag?
Hari-śauri: Grundig.
Prabhupāda: They're all German. All first-class machine you'll find. This Mercedes motorcar, they're all German. They don't manufacture third-class thing. Everything they manufacture first class. Still, the Germans suffered so much, but when I was in Germany I saw they are very prosperous.
Kīrtanānanda: Barking for the last thirty years.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Nobody has criticized them. They have taken it seriously; otherwise, why they have published? Yes, that's right. What they have done except barking? "I am American," "I am Russian," "I am this," "I am that," that's all. If you keep them dogs and hogs and, nicely dressed, they go to United Nations and talk of unity, is it possible? Can the dogs and hogs can unite? Common sense. You bring all the dogs of this neighborhood and ask them "Don't bark now. Live peacefully," (laughter) will they be able? (laughs) The United Nation is like that. They're kept as dogs and they're advised, "Now keep peacefully." Is it possible? They have no common sense even. First of all, let them become human beings. Conference is going on, big conference, and Jawaharlal Nehru has imitated, that in the conference there are different languages, different..., but if somebody is speaking in any language you'll hear it in your own language. Remember? In New Delhi he has done that. This rascal thought, "Now I am finished, I have done my duty." All rascals. (japa) Thus our definition, that anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's either in these four groups, bas, final. You just try to prove it. Hm? Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja? You have any doubt about it?
Kīrtanānanda: No.
Prabhupāda: Jñāna, what is jñāna? Jñāna means... That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So unless one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, there is no jñāna. This is all nonsense. And they're passing as jñāna. There is no knowledge at all. Vedānta means the ultimate knowledge. So ultimate knowledge, the subject matter of ultimate knowledge is Kṛṣṇa, God. So if one does not know who is God, who is Kṛṣṇa, then where is knowledge? This is fact, the knowledge, but if a rascal claims that "I am man of knowledge," then what can be done? Knowledge is explained, that when one understands that Kṛṣṇa is everything.... Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). When one understands that Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is everything, then that is knowledge. Before that, there is no knowledge. It is simply misunderstanding. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). One may begin with impersonal Brahman by the speculative method or one can realize the, what is called, Paramātmā, localized aspect. That is the secondary stage. The final stage is understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). That is the final knowledge. But if you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, then where is your knowledge? Knowledge, half-way knowledge is not knowledge. Complete knowledge. That complete knowledge is possible, as it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). Those who are striving to acquire knowledge, such persons, after many, many births, when actually by the grace of God and by the grace of a devotee comes to the knowledge, then he agrees, "Oh, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), everything is Kṛṣṇa." Sa mahātmā, that mahātmā, great soul is very rare to be found. Sudurlabhaḥ. Durlabhaḥ means very rare to be seen but the word is used sudurlabhaḥ, very, very rare. So you cannot find such a mahātmā who understands clearly Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye, yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścin... (BG 7.3). Siddha means liberated. So one may become liberated even that.... but from that liberated position again he falls down unless he understands the Supreme Person, Kṛṣṇa. Aruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho 'nādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Unless he comes to the final understanding of the Absolute Truth, Kṛṣṇa, he'll fall down. Therefore so many Vedantists, they first of all, they give up this world brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, this world is false. But again they come down and they become busy in doing some philanthropic work, opening hospitals.... Why? If the world is false, why you are coming down again on this platform? That means they could not get any substance by their so-called renouncement of this world. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa, for going to that platform of siddhi, liberation, they had to undergo so much difficulties and austerities but still, even going there.... Just like these people are going to the moon planet and.... Actually whether they have gone or not, that is a doubtful thing, but the thing is, why they are coming down again? That is our challenge. If you have gone to the moon planet then colonise there. But why you have come down again and do not talk anything about.
Hari-śauri: Na hi prapaśyāmi mamāpanudyād yac chokam ucchoṣaṇam indriyāṇām, avāpya bhūmāv asapatnam ṛddhaṁ rājyaṁ surāṇām api cādhipatyam (BG 2.8). "I can find no means to drive away this grief which is drying up my senses. I will not be able to destroy it even if I win an unrivalled kingdom on the earth..."
Prabhupāda: No. There is another verse that "Without You I do not find anyone else who can give me real..."
Hari-śauri: You know that one?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.
Devotee: The doubt when... The fallen yogi. "Who else can...? I think so.
Hari-śauri: I'll look it up in the...
Prabhupāda: In the, is the,... There is... What are you finding?
Hari-śauri: I'll look it up in the Sanskrit index.
Prabhupāda: What is the śloka? The śloka I do not remember exactly, but there is continuation. You read the whole thing. What is that chapter?
Hari-śauri: This is Chapter Two.
Prabhupāda: Begin it.
Prabhupāda: So he has said already that "I do not find any other means to pacify me, and You are the only..." The purport is that Arjuna is accepting Kṛṣṇa as guru to instruct him how to get relief from the perplexed position. So in this sense the real guru is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is guru. Not only for Arjuna, for everyone. So if we take instruction from Kṛṣṇa and abide by that order, instruction, then our life is successful. That is our mission. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means accept Kṛṣṇa as guru. We don't say... Don't divert your attention. We don't say that "I am Kṛṣṇa." We never say that. We simply ask people that "You abide by the order of Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), and we say that "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Give up all other ideas of so-called dharma or religiosity." The same thing. But we don't say that you or me, "I am the authority." No, we don't say that. We say, "Kṛṣṇa is the authority, and you try to understand Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Therefore the question is guru. So here, from the behavior of Arjuna, we see that guru is necessary. Arjuna was talking with Kṛṣṇa as friend, but Arjuna saw that "This is, there is no good talking like this. We can continue talking.... Because we are equal status. Kṛṣṇa is my friend. I am also His friend. So He's answering, I am giving something. If this talking will go on, there will be no fruit." Therefore he said, "Now, Kṛṣṇa, I am becoming Your disciple." Disciple means there is no argument. Whatever the guru will say, you have to accept. That is disciple. That is final. There is no argument. So Arjuna put him into that position that "I cease to talk with You on equal level of friends. Now I accept You as guru." Therefore the guru is necessary, undoubtedly, because every one of us in perplexed position. But who is guru? Guru means Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's representative. And all others are bogus. If one does not say on the standard of Kṛṣṇa, then he's not guru. He's a bogus. In that way everyone can become guru. I have got some opinion, I can say. But unless.... Just like a lawyer is he who follows the standard law. If a lawyer says that "I have manufactured my own laws," so who will hear him? And what will be the use of becoming lawyer? No. You have to follow the standard law. Then you are a lawyer. And a big lawyer means who knows the standard laws very well. Similarly, guru is Kṛṣṇa and guru is necessary. But one must surrender to Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's representative. Then he will be successful. So so far.... Now, one can say that Kṛṣṇa is not present. But Kṛṣṇa is not present, how you can say? Kṛṣṇa's instruction is there, Bhagavad-gītā. How you can say that.... Kṛṣṇa, absolute, means the Supreme Lord is not different from His words also. The words of Kṛṣṇa and the Kṛṣṇa, they are the same. That is Absolute Truth. In the relative world the words "water" and the substance water are different. If I am thirsty, if I simply chant "water, water, water," my thirst will not be satisfied. I require the real water. That is relative world. But in the spiritual world.... Just like we are chanting Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa is different from Hare Kṛṣṇa, then how we are satisfied chanting whole day and night? This is the proof. The ordinary thing, if you chant, "Mr. John, Mr. John," after chanting three times you'll cease. But this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, if you go on chanting 24 hours, you'll never be tired. this is the spiritual Absolute Truth. That is practical. Anyone can perceive. So Kṛṣṇa's present by His words, by His representative. Why don't you take? You have to take guru. Why do you go to the pseudo guru who will mislead you? Why don't you take to the real guru? That is your mistake. Therefore you are now disappointed. Now you are in doubt whether guru is needed. Yes, guru is needed, but you go to the real guru. That is instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just find out this verse.
Rākṣana: So it should be fairly easy for scientists to prove, Svarūpa Dāmodara and such, that.... I know they can't prove there is illumination caused by the deserts.
Prabhupāda: That is the point. Therefore it is doubtful whether they have gone there.
Devotee (1): Did they go to some other planet, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: That is different question. But they did not go to the moon planet.
Vipina: In the Bhāgavatam you also explain that the moon is about 1,600,000 miles away, so they couldn't have gone. It's beyond the sun, you said, Prabhupāda? (break)
Devotee (2): ...rectifying the senators and congressmen, is there much hope in talking to them?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The politicians in Washington. He would like to know if it's worthwhile talking to them, preaching to them.
Devotee (3): Much hope talking to people like that?
Prabhupāda: He wants to talk?
Devotee (3): Yes, I want to talk to them.
Prabhupāda: No, no. He wants to talk or you want to talk?
Devotee (2): I want to talk to them.
Prabhupāda: No.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Bhakto 'si me...
Prabhupāda: Bhakto 'si me. He was not a Vedantist, he was a soldier. How the soldier can understand the highest topics of bhakti-yoga? Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). It is the yoga. How a soldier... Arjuna was not a Vedantist, he was a fighter. There was a doubt that "How a soldier can understand?" Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, bhakto 'si, "You can understand because you are My bhakta." The first qualification, one must be a bhakta. Then he can understand. Otherwise it is not possible.
Mr. Deyani: How then can the God come in a human form, because human, when you talk of human body, it is a limited...
Prabhupāda: He does not come in human form. He is like human being, dvi-bhuja. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. He's... In the Bible it is said that man is made after God. The human being, two hands, two legs, this body they have got, that is the original form of God. But because He comes in that form, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11), they think that He is a man. His original form is (like) that. But because we are habituated to see two hands, two legs of human being, we take Him as human being. But that is His original form. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā. Find out. So if we accept Him as a human being like us, then we are mūḍhā, rascals. He says avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto (BG 9.11). They do not know what is behind this human form. God is omnipotent, almighty. He can take any form He likes. You cannot check Him. You cannot say "How Brahman can come in a human form?" Why He cannot come? If He is all-powerful, where is the difficulty? Taking your argument, if Brahman is all-powerful, then where is the difficulty for Him to come as a human being?
Guest (2): No, there cannot be no difficulty. That is reasonable.
Guest (2): As a great power, yes.
Prabhupāda: Not great power, but greatest power. Nobody is greater than Him. That is accepted by the direct listener of Bhagavad-gītā, Arjuna. And he is giving evidences of Vyāsadeva, Asita, Devala, Nārada, they are authorities. And in the recent years, the ācāryas Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka and Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they have all accepted. And He speaks also. Then where is doubt? Where is doubt?
Guest (2): No, I just want to clear this thing, that thing I accept, sir, this thing that it is a great power, the supreme power.
Prabhupāda: Not a great, the great power. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). There is no more greater power than Him. That is His position.
Guest (2): My point is, sometimes this, a difference comes in this thing. Suppose a man of other religion says, okay...
Prabhupāda: No, no, it is not question of religion. It is a question of God. God is great. That is accepted by all religions. So if Kṛṣṇa is great, then He is God. Where is the argument?
Guest (2): Then they didn't come, just like you stated, that...
Prabhupāda: Then you have to study Kṛṣṇa, that where is the great, the only great. Then you'll understand. God is great, there is... No religion will differ in this connection. But if find that "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the greatest," then you have to accept. There is no other argument. So I'll take a little time go to shower. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Is there any question about?
Guest (1): Is there any question about Bhagavad-gītā?
Prabhupāda: No, as you are reading Bhagavad-gītā, is there any doubt, question?
Rādhāvallabha: Śrīla Prabhupāda wants to know if anyone has questions.
Prabhupāda: There is nothing doubtful; everything is very plain. But we, by our rascaldom, we make it doubt. By our rascal interpretation. Everyone can understand. Just like dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). The Kurukṣetra is dharma-kṣetra. Still Kurukṣetra is there in India, and it is dharma-kṣetre. People go there for performing religious ritualistic ceremonies. So where is the difficulty to understand? And five thousand years ago the Kurus and Pāṇḍavas, they assembled there for fighting—that is clearly stated, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). Who were they? Māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva: "My sons and the sons of Pāṇḍu," Kuru-Pāṇḍava. So where is the difficulty to understand? But by misinterpretation they'll write volumes of books and spoil the whole thing. This is going on. This business should be stopped. Then we will be benefited. Everyone is misinterpreting. Is it not a fact they are misinterpreting? What do you think?
Devotee (1): So many intelligent people, they are going to Transcendental Meditation simply because it's costing money. They want to pay. My sister, her husband, they are intelligent people, but they are simply...
Prabhupāda: So intelligent that they cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā. What kind of intelligence is that, the plain thing in the Bhagavad-gītā, they cannot...
Devotee (1): Very bad intelligence.
Indian man (3): Not blindly.
Prabhupāda: Not blindly. But you must know... Just like if you accept the government, and the government orders, "This man should be hanged," you have to accept it. You cannot protest that "The government has ordered this man should be hanged. It should be protested." And who will care for your protest? Government is government. You cannot criticize. You may criticize on account of your less intelligence, but government order is all. Is it not? If government orders that "This man should be hanged," can you say anything against it? It will not be accepted. Similarly, if you know that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, then as Arjuna said, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava (BG 10.14). Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitram (BG 10.12). Unless you understand Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's personality, you will try to weight the strength of His words, the value of His words. But if you understand other statement... Just like Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7), "I am the supreme authority." So if He is the supreme authority, then whatever He has said, it is all right. But if you have doubt about He's supreme authority, then you will find out His fault. That is the defect. So if Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the supreme authority..."
- mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat
- kiñcid asti dhanañjaya
- mayi sarvam idaṁ protaṁ
- sūtre maṇi-gaṇā iva
- (BG 7.7)
If you understand that Kṛṣṇa is the supreme authority, then you will understand that whatever He has said, that is absolute. Now if we become doubtful, that is on account of our less intelligence. Why you are questioning this, that Kṛṣṇa... What you are question?
Prabhupāda: Sthito 'smi gata-sandehaḥ. "Now all my doubts are over. Now I shall kill." Why did you not say this to your European audience?
Indian man (3): Because I don't know the Gītā myself that good.
Prabhupāda: Then why do you preach? First of all know, then preach. If you did not know, you should not preach. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra (CC Adi 9.41). First of all make your life perfect, then try to make others perfect. Don't cheat others. So when Arjuna actually became intelligent, he said sthito 'smi gata-sandehaḥ kariṣye vacanaṁ tava. This is understanding. "Yes, now I am situated in my proper understanding, I shall carry out Your order."
Guest (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, I heard on one lecture tape, you mentioned your Guru Mahārāja has said that in the morning he had to beat the mind into submission. How can we do this?
Prabhupāda: Practice this. Your mind, when he says something hodgepodge, just beat him with shoes. Just to bring him in order. Here is the real understanding, that
- naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā
- tvat prasādān mayācyuta
- sthito 'smi gata-sandehaḥ
- kariṣye vacanaṁ tava
- (BG 18.73)
This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Whether you are prepared to act according to the direction of Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. Otherwise you are in darkness. So as Arjuna, he was in the darkness... He's kṣatriya. The fight was arranged between the two sections of the family, Pāṇḍavas and Kurus, and when he was to fight actually with his family members, he became bewildered, that "Kṛṣṇa, what is this? I'll have to kill my family members." So then he became His disciple, that "I am kṣatriya, it is my duty to fight. Now I am hesitating." Kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ (BG 2.7). "I'm just deviating from my duty, so Kṛṣṇa, I accept You as my guru-kindly give me instruction." So that Bhagavad-gītā was given instruction... (break) He agreed, "Yes, now my illusion is over, I shall fight." This is understanding of Bhagavad-gītā. If you follow Arjuna as he understood, then your understanding of Bhagavad-gītā is perfect. If you do not understand, then you have not understood what is Kṛṣṇa's speaking and what is Bhagavad-gītā.
Indian man (3): He took the chariot wheel when Bhīṣma pitāmaha was coming to Arjuna. Is that a fight?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is another instance, that for His devotee He can break His promise also. That is Kṛṣṇa. Arjuna... Duryodhana complained to Bhīṣmadeva, that "My dear grandfather, because you have affection for Arjuna and others, you are not fighting properly according to your strength." So at that time Bhīṣma saw that "This man is doubting about my sincerity." So he wanted to show his power, so he said, "All right." He knew everything, he was a great devotee of Kṛṣṇa, so he promised to Duryodhana, that "Tomorrow I shall fight in such a way that either Arjuna will die or Kṛṣṇa will have to break His promise." So he fought in such a way that Arjuna was practically vanquished. At that time, Kṛṣṇa took the wheel of the chariot and came before Him, that "Bhīṣma, you stop this fight, otherwise I'll kill you." So Bhīṣma said, "Yes, I am stopping my fight, because You have broken Your promise, that's all." This is the dealing between God and His devotee. There is competition of devotional service. There are so many things. But on the whole, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, the supreme authority; His instruction is final, and anyone who can understand this, his life is successful. Therefore our request is that don't make unnecessary useless interpretation. You take Bhagavad-gītā as it is and act accordingly, your life will be successful. This is our mission. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. But if you cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā, we can try to explain before you what it is. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But do you think they were on this planet?
Prabhupāda: No, no, may be on this planet, but it doesn't matter that it is extinct. You have not seen.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that's a fact.
Rāmeśvara: Their idea is that at that time man was living in the form of half monkey, half man in a cave, and gradually he evolved to become more civilized.
Prabhupāda: That is still there. Kinnaras. Kinnaras means it is doubtful whether he is man or monkey.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow.
Prabhupāda: There is a Kinnara-loka. Kimpuruṣa. Kinnara. They are still existing. It is not that they are finished.
Hari-śauri: I was reading a magazine when we were on the plane, and it was describing this type of monkey man, that they are being called, they existed in snow wastes.
Prabhupāda: Or what is called? The big...?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Orangutan, gorilla.
Prabhupāda: Gorilla, they are like men.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they are. Very much like men. We see them in the zoo.
Prabhupāda: They have got their senses like men.
Hari-śauri: Of Arizona.
Prabhupāda: No, they know that this time if they say there is no life, then there is no interest. This time another falsehood.
Hari-śauri: Maybe some life this time.
Prabhupāda: Some new falsehood.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: All the things that they have found has put doubt of their previous discoveries. They have put... They say this themselves, that it has revolutionized all their knowledge by some pictures they have now. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...the solid stone, and still, life is coming, and they say there is no life. (break) In the moon planet there is sand, but wherefrom the sand came? Without water, where is the experience of sand?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Sand, yes.
Prabhupāda: Sand. We get sand from the water. So unless there was water, how there is sand? Who will answer this?
Jagadīśa: Desert, like the desert.
Prabhupāda: Yes, there was water. There was water. You cannot say that sand has come automatically. It comes from... What is that sand? It's soda-silicate. The water is soda, full of soda, and from that, sand comes. You are chemist. You know soda silicate?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Excuse me?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Brahma-tīrtha prabhu, Bob Cohen, is a geologist. He just got initiated yesterday.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Oh, yes.
Mike Robinson: Perhaps finally, then, I could ask you, do you ever have any doubts?
Prabhupāda: If I have doubts, how I am preaching? That means I am cheating. And how I am writing so many books? Do you think a man with doubt can produce, in doubtful condition, he can produce so many books? (devotees quietly laughing) Do you think like that?
Mike Robinson: Well, I don't know, I just...
Prabhupāda: Well, you should know. (laughter)
Mike Robinson: So you never doubt any of this, anything at all.
Prabhupāda: We are sure.
Mike Robinson: That you have found the truth.
Prabhupāda: Utsāhān dhairyāt niścayād. Find out this verse.
Harikeśa:
- utsāhān niścayād dhairyāt
- tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt
- saṅga-tyagāt sato vṛtteḥ
- ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati
- (Upadeśāmṛta 3)
"There are six principles favorable to the execution of pure devotional service: (1) being enthusiastic, (2) endeavoring with confidence, (3) being patient, (4) acting according to regulative principles (such as śravanaṁ kīrtanam viṣṇoḥ smaranam (SB 7.5.23)—hearing, chanting and remembering Kṛṣṇa), (5) abandoning the association of nondevotees, and (6) following in the footsteps of the previous acaryas. These six principles undoubtedly assure the complete success of pure devotional service."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is there.
Prabhupāda: Somebody else?
Atreya Ṛṣi: There are some guests coming. (background movement)
Prabhupāda: Come forward. No, let them come in. So whether these gentlemen's questions are answered. If they have got any doubt, we can...
Atreya Ṛṣi: Through association they will ask more questions.
Prabhupāda: What is that verse?
Pradyumna: "One who knows the transcendental nature of my appearance and activities does not upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world but attains my eternal abode, O Arjuna."
Prabhupāda: So this is the process of becoming independent of the material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). This is the process. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, how to make one independent of this material body. Any other questions? Bring my beads. (long pause) My question is whether you like to remain dependent on this material body. Hmm? If you can live spiritually independent, whether you should remain dependent on this material body and whether to remain dependent on this material body is happy or it is distress? What is your realization? To remain dependent on this material body, is it very good or is it troublesome, huh?
Peter: Suffering.
Interviewer (5): Swamiji, another doubt. In this mahā-mantra that you publicize, Hare Kṛṣṇa, it is Kṛṣṇa that is emphasized. (indistinct) emphasis His Bhāgavata and other things are popularized. Is it corresponding...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything. If you have studied Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). So Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. If you accept it that this is supreme name of God, Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma.
- harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam
- kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
- (CC Adi 17.21)
This is the Vedic injunction. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He said paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. In the Bhāgavata it is said kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51). These things are there. It is not a manufactured program. It is based on śāstra. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet. Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ. These things are there. You have to accept some authority. If you don't accept authority, you speculate. That is your business, but we don't do. We accept the authority.
Jayapatākā: So that time Mr. Choudhuri, he was put down. But he said, "I have not yet lost hope." He said, but he was put down a bit. That might personally talked to the Minister of Nadia, Anandamoy Visvas, who I personally met last year. And he was telling him that for Nadia he should sponsor this. Even the negative political issue with the Chief Minister, he should push it through. In the meantime I wrote an application to Karun Kanti Ghosh, who up to now we hadn't asked. Because it had already passed all the preliminaries. And I went and spoke to him. I told him that "It has already passed all the government stages. Now simply the Chief Minister has to be convinced." He said, "No, no. You are of good integrity. There is not doubt about ISKCON. I will immediately tell him." He called up the Chief Secretary, the Chief Minister was out then. Later on he talked to Chief Minister. The next time I saw Mr. Choudhuri. Before that, he told me... That's when he told me that "Maybe Prabhupāda should see the Chief Minister." Now he said it's not necessary. He liked your reply to them. After that, I saw Mr. Tarun Kanti Ghosh. Then I saw Choudhuri again a week later. At that time he said, "Now everything is changed." He said "Now the Chief Minister, that problem is solved." He has written that "Let Mr. Choudhuri make the decision. Let him make the decision. But I cannot simply take the decision. They'll say I am biased. I must work in the ordinary ways of the government. But there is no trouble now. You have waited so long. You wait another thirty or sixty days." He said, "Wait another sixty days, and then you'll get it."
Prabhupāda: When he wrote? When he wrote this?
Gargamuni: He spoke to me just two weeks ago. Two weeks ago. Then, last week, again I saw him just before Janmāṣṭamī. I asked him... And I gave him invitation to Janmāṣṭamī. At that time he told me that... There was this bad publicity. He told me, "Now this bad publicity, I think it has given us some benefit."
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, could you give darśana over here later? They're all been waiting for your darśana.
Gargamuni: Hey, wait a minute. We're talking about Māyāpur. We're talking about Māyāpur.
Prabhupāda: Is there...? Is there there necessity?
Gargamuni: There's no necessary.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. But we had you down on schedule for a lecture. So I said that you're not lecturing, but they just wanted to have a look at you. Later we can...
Prabhupāda: Tomorrow I shall.
Gargamuni: The State government is very favorable. But the doubt, of course, is coming from the central government because they don't know us. But the state government, they are very favorable. Everyone we've met within the State, they like us very much. They like the Society, they like your work, and, of course, they like your books.
Jayapatākā: The local police intelligence officer in Krishnagar, when I went to see him, he told me, (Bengali). Like that, he told me. "Definitely I make you an Indian citizen." So they are favorable. I don't know how much they can do, but locally they are favorable.
Gargamuni: Now on the weekend we have tours of the building. Many groups of people come. Fifty in a group sometimes come and visit.
Prabhupāda: Tourists.
Gargamuni: Yes, tourists, and we take then on tour of the building. That's Subhaga. He takes them on tour and he gives some preaching. So many people are coming.
Prabhupāda: Subhaga is in charge of that?
Gargamuni: Yes, he does.
Jayapatākā: Others are there also. One new boy is very good.
Gargamuni: Kiśora.
Jayapatākā: Kiśora dāsa. He's also translating. He's a little more strong than Subhaga, although new. Very good boy, very humble. He's from a good family also.
Prabhupāda: What is the flood situation?
Gargamuni: Very mild monsoon this year. Almost drought. Almost. Very mild. Very little rain.
Prabhupāda: Rain is not very strong.
Prabhupāda: Do you think it is?
Jayapatākā: No, it's not necessary to personally see him. You might write... When you come to Māyāpur we'll write him invitation that he can come and see and visit you there. That was better. Mr. Choudhuri said that "Your Guru Mahārāja, he has got also the Vaiṣṇava pride not to see the politicians." He said, "This is a good stand. I respect this very much." Actually he mentioned once to Abhirāma confidentially that "If this project comes through, then you'll be requiring some liaison officer because there will be so many government things. At that time I can work for you as your permanent advisor and go to Delhi and here and there and do all the work." I think he wants a job.
Prabhupāda: I thought Mr. Choudhuri would do everything, but that is not the position.
Jayapatākā: Almost he is doing everything. Actually he's trying to say that he did everything. But I think that when we saw Tarun Kanti Ghosh that that cleared up that matter with Chief Minister that cleared that up. As far as the other lower secretary men are..., Mr. Choudhuri did everything. The Chief Minister doubt, I think Tarun helped clear that up. That's the only thing that he couldn't change the mind of is the Chief Minister. Otherwise he did everything else, almost, you can say.
Gargamuni: He came on the last ekādaśī. Just last ekādaśī, what, ten days ago? Seven days he came for the ekādaśī to Māyāpur just to see.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Gargamuni: Tarun Kanti Ghosh. He took prasādam, he took the ekādaśī and he liked it very much.
Jayapatākā: I just saw him also just before Janmāṣṭamī, and he was still very favorable then. We talked for about an hour and a half. He introduced me to all the M.L.A's of the twenty-four paraganās.
Prabhupāda: Tarun Kanti?
Jayapatākā: When I go preaching, then I go, and the government M.L.A. and Congress people, they also help me. They arrange sometimes places for me to stay and big program. They protect that no people cause us any disturbances. Although we don't...
Prabhupāda: What about our Godbrothers? They are also opposing?
Jayapatākā: Subhaga made a very... Bhavānanda sent him over to invite Śrīdhara Swami for Janmāṣṭamī, as a show of respect.
Prabhupāda: In our favor.
Jayapatākā: In our favor strongly. And only a minority are actively opposed, one percent even. And thirty per cent are in doubt. So, so much so that even I saw recently the M.L.A. who was previously against us. And when I saw him I invited him for Janmāṣṭamī, and he said what about our program for a bridge? I said, "Oh, yes, I discussed with Śrīla Prabhupāda, and he suggested having a floating bridge to Navadvīpa. That will be very short. Very easily done with least expense." He said, "Anyway, next time you come to Navadvīpa you can discuss with me. I am ready to help you in all ways." So he has turned his mind around.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Jayapatākā: The MLA. The local Member of Legislative Assembly. He was previously a little against us. But because our whole aṁśa (?) is for us, if he doesn't cooperate he won't get their vote, they want the development in their area. Also the...He is changing a little. Everyone is saying that our society is actually simply doing sincere work.
Prabhupāda: As they doing (?).
Jayapatākā: This food distribution has been very important.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Give him some prasāda.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He is coming at one o'clock, so we'll give the whole mahā-prasāda.
Prabhupāda: So at four o'clock you are coming there? No. At Mr. Raja's house?
Commissioner: ...minister.
Prabhupāda: They are holding some meeting? Today we have got very good article in the Sunday Chronicle. Everyone is reporting about us very nice, and still there are some envious persons, they are creating doubts about us.
Commissioner: They cannot create any doubts, Swamiji, as long as you are establishing the equality of man in the eyes of God, only one God. That is being done, I think.
Prabhupāda: Yes, we have no discrimination.
Commissioner: Ācchā. No discrimination. And that is the... I don't think anybody called...
Prabhupāda: Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu.
- brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
- na śocati na kāṅkṣati
- samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
- mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
- (BG 18.54)
Unless one is samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu he cannot reach the platform of devotional...
Commissioner: And how can there be anything greater service to humanity than...
Prabhupāda: Here is the first thing, that brahma-bhūtaḥ, Brahman realization. Then prasannātmā. He is no more under the material tribulation or anxiety. We are in anxiety on account of our material conception of life. Prahlāda Mahārāja said sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5). Because we have accepted this asat body, material body, which will not exist, and we are concentrating our attention only on this body, therefore we are always anxious. Asad-grahāt. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt. On account of asat. So this is going on all over the world. Simply anxiety.
Prabhupāda: This is real religion.
Harikeśa: "Arjuna said: My dear Kṛṣṇa, O infallible one, my illusion is now gone. I have regained my memory by Your mercy and I am now firm and free from doubt and am prepared to act according to Your instructions."
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is real... That is translated in Bengali,
- nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-prema sādhya kabhu naya
- śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya
- (Cc. madhya 22.107)
Now I have, now I, naṣṭo mohaḥ, now my illusion is over (Sanskrit) That is (indistinct). Kṛṣṇa gives you liberty, whatever you like you do. But when you come to the conclusion, "No, I shall do what you say," that is perfection. I can do whatever I like. That liberty is there. But if I accept Kṛṣṇa's instruction, that is bhakti. Find out that verse, satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14).
Harikeśa:
- satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ
- yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ
- namasyantaś ca māṁ bhaktyā
- nitya-yuktā upāsate
- (BG 9.14)
"Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion."
Prabhupāda: This is religion. They are mahātmās.
Prabhupāda: You bring thousands of examples.
Indian man: Then what is that merging?
Prabhupāda: No, no. You bring thousands of examples, but whether we have to accept them or Kṛṣṇa?
Indian man: I mean the doubt I am having, Gītā, I mean...
Prabhupāda: Then you, you now you just become out of doubt. That... Just like Kṛṣṇa says in the Seventh Chapter, mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ asaṁśayam. Here is asaṁśayam. No doubt. Why you are in doubt? You do not accept Kṛṣṇa. You accept somebody else.
Indian man: Not a question of accepting. We are all ignorant people in the field of...
Prabhupāda: Therefore you are in doubt.
Indian man: We are, we have...
Prabhupāda: No. Therefore you are in doubt. If you want to be doubtless, then you accept Kṛṣṇa. Mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. Āśrayaḥ. Not that equal footing. Mad-āśrayaḥ. Asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu (BG 7.1). So you have to accept Kṛṣṇa. If you become, if you want to become doubtless. Otherwise, you'll be put into doubt. Here it is said asaṁśayam, "without any doubt." That is the process. And if you want to remain in doubt, you continue. You accept this man, that man, that man, that man, that man. That is your business. But if you want to be doubtless, then you have to accept Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Unaware. So God, how he's unaware? Just see.
Hari-śauri: They make God so cheap.
Prabhupāda: The rascal.
Hari-śauri: This is... And then the next part's even worse. "For the doubting or confused minority, to which section I then belonged, Swamiji has this message. "Those who want to secure pearls from the sea have to dive deep to fetch them. It does not help them to dabble among the shallow waves near the shore and say that the sea has no pearls and that all stories about them are false. Likewise, if a person wants to secure the love and grace of the avatāra he must also dive deep and get submerged in Sai Baba. Then only will he become one with me and carry me in his innermost heart."
Prabhupāda: Everyone can say like that. What you have done as God? God is an Indian. Making things very complicated.
Prabhupāda: Hm. All the Gosvāmīs.
Hari-śauri: That Atul Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Atul Kṛṣṇa, yes. Anyone will sign for Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is genuine India cultural religious movement. They have got doubt: "Whether it is bona fide religion?" Yes it is.
Hari-śauri: Well, you see the process of chanting, it is not common practice and they think it is a kind of inducement.
Prabhupāda: It is kind of brainwash process.
Haṁsadūta: It is.
Prabhupāda: Brainwash? No, it is heart wash. (laughter) We can send this, "It is not brainwash," that "it is heartwash." Of course brain and heart practically same.
Haṁsadūta: Mm. (pause)
Prabhupāda: Our temple, where many people come. Our Māyāpur temple, Hyderabad temple, it is not only in Europe or America, in India in our temples, south India.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Dhanurdhara: What of a boy who does the japa very nicely and...
Prabhupāda: Well, japa... Whether his father is doing japa nicely, that is also doubtful. What to speak of children? Japa, children cannot... That should not be taken very seriously. Whatever he can do, that's all right. We should enforce, we should... But not that if he does not immediately, he should be rejected. No.
Jagadīśa: You've often said the first-class intelligent men are the brāhmaṇas, second-class intelligent men are the kṣatriyas...
Prabhupāda: So we have to train like that, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ, not that everyone should be Sanskrit scholar. Why? It is not necessary. There are so many other things.
Jagadīśa: The inclination depends on guṇa-karma.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Although by nature we should not enforce something. We should see for which work he is suitable. You should engage him. And we must have all departments of work—the weaving department, the plowing department, the cow-keeping department, the Sanskrit department, the English department, the trading department. We should have all the departments. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13).
Prabhupāda: Then they'll suffer?
Devotee: Then there's no... Actually even if we ask for rezoning, they cannot refuse us because according to their laws the only thing that this particular land can be rezoned for, number one on the list is churches and temples. But...
Prabhupāda: No, you do it, but if there is doubt you can say, "No temple."
Devotee: Right, right.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct-talking together) ...take the name of a temple.
Devotee: This is a minor problem in this case. It used to be a major but it's minor now.
Prabhupāda: Community project. That's all. We are Hare Kṛṣṇa community, it is our project. We live together, that's all.
Devotee: Jaya. Well I'll pass that along to Guṇagrahi.
Prabhupāda: I think I went to San Diego.
Devotee: Yes, about two years ago.
Prabhupāda: Mm. So...
Devotee: You see...
Prabhupāda: There is a big park, San Diego.
Guest (2) (Indian man): I have got some doubt.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Guest (2): If we are all children of Lord Kṛṣṇa—all the living beings are a part of Kṛṣṇa—in that case childrens in thousands and hundreds who are killed every day...
Prabhupāda: That is created by you, that you may become the sons of one father, but every one of you has got different tendency.
Guest (2): But I can't see how...
Prabhupāda: No, no, just try to understand that we are all sons of Kṛṣṇa. That's nice. (aside:) No, there is another one.
Devotee: Of brass?
Prabhupāda: It is silver. You go. All right. A father has got five sons. Some of them are very learned; some of them are foolish. Why? Does the father like that "The some of my sons should be rascals, and others should be very nice?" Does the father like it? Then why he becomes? Hm?
Guest (2): If one becomes...
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) That we say. Consider. But these varieties are there, so how you can check it? Cause may be different. I have seen while I was in Allahabad one big barrister's sons. One became barrister; another became ekala.(?) You know ekala? Ekala driver. So the father did not like that "One of my sons should become ekala, and other son should be like me, barrister," but I have seen. And there are many instances. The father does not want that "My son should be vagabond, useless," but sometimes they become by their own activities. That independence everyone has got. So that is not father's creation. Your point was "Why God has created like that?" That is foolishness. God says that you surrender." But you do not surrender. That is your foolishness.
Prabhupāda: Satya Sai Baba is not authority.
Guest (7): No, no, I don't accept.
Prabhupāda: Then why you quote him? We are not prepared to hear his words.
Guest (7): Kindly clear off my doubt.
Prabhupāda: No... That is another thing. That is another thing.
Guest (7): All the miracles only just to increase confidence and...
Prabhupāda: Why...? Magic is magic. That is another thing. That is not knowledge.
Guest (7): Suppose if I want to talk here Kṛṣṇa consciousness among the masses...
Prabhupāda: No, we have to push on Kṛṣṇa consciousness according to the direction of Kṛṣṇa, not by the ways and means by Sai Baba. That is foolishness.
Guest (7): Can I attain such magical powers?
Prabhupāda: So why? What is the use? We are not using any magical powers.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It is great, fortunate that you are trying to understand. So if you try to understand this philosophy, you understand it is not the so-called religion, it is a culture for benefit of the whole human society, para-upakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, para-upakāra. Because people are in the darkness of knowledge, to enlighten them, to come to the light, that is Vedic injunction, tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ. Do not remain in darkness, come to the light. So our attempt is to bring these people who are kept in different types of, or different standards of darkness, to bring them to light. This is our position. It is not sectarian. Not for the Hindus, not for the Indians, but it is meant for the whole human society. Kṛṣṇa never said that He's Hindu or He's Indian. He says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). He never says that "I am for the Hindu or for the Indians." Sarva-yoniṣu. There are 8,400,000 species of different types of life. That is the fact, bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). Wherefrom the life is coming? These rascals, they do not understand what is actual science, how things are going on, how the laws of nature is working. Simply superficially, "We have got some ideas." Fundamentally they have no knowledge. So we are trying to enlighten them with our teeny effort. Although it is single-handed, still it is genuine. If you kindly try to understand the whole philosophy—the first thing is, andhā yathāndair upanīyamānā, the whole world is now being conducted by blind leaders. And they're keeping people in darkness because they are themselves in darkness. They do not know what is light. So they do not know what is the object of life, what is the destination of life. Simply in blind faith they have created so many isms. It is simply misleading. It is little difficult to understand that we are simply leading others... That's a fact, that's a fact. If you impersonally try to understand this philosophy that every man is kept in the darkness of a different stamp, different ism. That is the first instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptir, after death you have to change your body. Then where is your ism? Whole ism changed. That they do not understand. They're so much in darkness, mūḍha. "Today I am very great national leader, my country, my..." So on, so on. And tomorrow by the laws of nature if I become a dog in Europe, then where is my nationalism? And it is possible. What is called? Because you are under nature's law, you are not independent. Therefore they have given up this idea that there is life after death. This is their first ignorance. Everyone is thinking that this life is everything for twenty years or thirty years or hundred years-eat, drink, be merry, enjoy then everything is finished. The whole Russian people, they think like that. Not whole, I don't, I cannot say but the learned, their learned professors, they think like that. The life is ended after this body. So our people also, our these politicians, they also think like that. So this is the platform of ignorance. And people are so much (indistinct), born into this ignorance. It is very, very difficult to raise them from this ignorance. This is our task. The first business is to convince him that "Your life continues." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). But it is very difficult for the modern man to understand. They have been so poorly educated that it is very difficult. But this is the first beginning of knowledge and if we are in the conception that "I am this body and the body is everything," then we are no better that the cats and dogs. So this is a movement to raise people from the platform of cats' and dogs' life. It is little difficult but we have to do it. That is our mission, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, para-upakāra. They're living like cats and dogs, do something good for them so that they may live like actual human beings. This is our... So you kindly stay here for some days, read our books and if there is any question, doubt, I shall be very glad to enlighten you. But this is the fact, the whole world is misguided by the rascal leaders, I must say that. Andhā, andhā is the last word of rascaldom, andhā yathāndair upanīyamānā. If I say (to) somebody, "You are rascal."
Indian lady (5): Educated does not take away your real culture. So you may be educated, but...
Prabhupāda: This is real culture, Bhagavad-gītā. I'm preaching that, Bhagavad-gītā as it is.
Indian lady (5): When Swamiji says, "The Supreme Personality says," where is the doubt and where is the questioning also?
Prabhupāda: I represent as it is, and it is being accepted. (Indians talking at once)
Guest (1): Swamiji, what is the way out now? We have understood the present position, and you have also realized. You have seen the... And I don't want to take... I know that this ten-minutes' talk will not bring any satisfaction on either side. Now that has put me into a new thinking, that she's presently more worried about...
Prabhupāda: That is a politics. You must be worried. You must be worried. That is material world. So so long you are in the material platform, you must be worried. There is no exception. And I have seen in that time, how much worried she was at that time. Yes. So it does not mean because she is Prime Minister, there is no worry. It is not possible.
Prabhupāda: These rascals, they invent their theories. Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara prāptir, and these rascals says "Once." Just see.
Dr. Patel: The rascals have also realized now that there is a dehāntara-prāptir because the parapsychology has proved beyond doubt so many examples recently, at present, that there is a rebirth. People who are reborn and know their past births. They have recognized their parents, their places and secret things also. There was a patient in Rajastan. One was in Northwest India. There was one in South America. They were all published in medical bulletins.
Gurudāsa: People accept them?
Dr. Patel: Gradually.
Prabhupāda: Medical science do not accept the soul. Then how it is possible, next birth?
Dr. Patel: They have to accept. In the teaching of physiology, what we call certain vital forces which we don't understand, they are, this is nothing but God there. What is vital force? What is vital force? It's the soul, sir.
Prabhupāda: Vague idea. Not clear.
Dr. Patel: They will become clear later on. Slowly, slowly, the cloud is clearing away from them.
Prabhupāda: No, when... There is clear idea already. Nothing is going to happen, but because they are less intelligent, therefore next stage is when their intelligence will happen. Things are already there.
Prabhupāda: That's it. Sthito 'smi gata-sandehaḥ. Kariṣye vacanam. This is liberation: "Now I am fixed up," sthito 'smi, "All doubts gone." This is real study of Bhagavad-gītā. And promises, kariṣye vacanam: "All right, I shall fight. I shall kill Bhiṣmadeva. Never mind he's my grandfather. No question of nonviolence. I shall commit violence." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because naṣṭo mohaḥ... "It was my mohaḥ. I was thinking in that way, that 'He's my grandfather. He's my brother. He's my nephew.' These are all nonsense. I have to satisfy You." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). That is ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). Bhakti means to act to satisfy to Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti. Without any argument, what Kṛṣṇa says, that's all right.
Guest (10): Unconditional.
Prabhupāda: Unconditional. That is surrender. If we read Bhagavad-gītā in that way, then sthito 'smi, then sthita prajñā. And if you make cut short... Arjuna said, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava (BG 10.14). "Keśava, whatever You have said, I accept it in total." That is surrender. No cut short.
Rāmeśvara: So there must be censorship...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: ...in a Kṛṣṇa conscious...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Rāmeśvara: ...government.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Rāmeśvara: Censorship of television, radio, all media.
Prabhupāda: So let us... (car door opens—break) The people are becoming godless. How much degradation. Lord Rāmacandra appeared, Lord Kṛṣṇa appeared, Lord Buddha, Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared and many others, and the people of India, they are becoming godless. Why? Do you follow what I say? Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham (BG 4.7). And He does it in India within this universe. And they are become now... This is Kali-yuga. Other countries, they may, but India, so fortunate birth... Bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya janma. They are becoming degraded so much so that they are doubting, asking questions. (end)
Prabhupāda: Now they have taken it as bhajana, to associate with other woman, and he becomes Kṛṣṇa, and (s)he's Rādhārāṇī, and they're making bhajana. This rascaldom is going on. Go on.
Hari-śauri: "In his statement, Mahārāja Parīkṣit has used several important words which require clarification. The first word, jugupsitam, means 'abominable.' The first doubt of Parīkṣit Mahārāja was as follows: Lord Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who has advented Himself to establish religious principles. Why then did He mix with others' wives in the dead of night and enjoy dancing, embracing, and kissing? According to Vedic injunctions this is not allowed. Also, when the gopīs first came to Him, He gave instructions for them to return to their homes. To call the wives of other persons or young girls and enjoy dancing with them is certainly abominable according to the Vedas. And why should Kṛṣṇa have done this? Another word used here is āptakāma. Some may take it for granted that Kṛṣṇa was very lusty amongst young girls, but Parīkṣit Mahārāja said that this was not possible. He could not be lusty. First of all, from the material calculation He was only eight years old. At that age a boy cannot be lusty. Aptakāma means that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is self-satisfied. Even if He were lusty, He does not need to take help from others to satisfy His lusty desires. The next point is that although not lusty Himself, He might have been induced by the lusty desires of the gopīs. But Mahārāja Parīkṣit then used another word, yadupati, which indicates that Kṛṣṇa is the most exalted personality in the dynasty of the Yadus. The kings in the dynasty of Yadu were considered to be the most pious, and their descendants were also like that."
Prabhupāda: This is described in the śāstra. If one hears of the Yadu-vaṁśa, he becomes purified. And Kṛṣṇa is addressed, Yadupati.
Hari-śauri: "Having taken birth in that family, how could Kṛṣṇa have been induced even by the gopīs? It is concluded therefore that it was not possible for Kṛṣṇa to do anything abominable. But Mahārāja Parīkṣit was in doubt as to why Kṛṣṇa acted in that way. What was the real purpose? Another word Mahārāja Parīkṣit used when he addressed Śukadeva Gosvāmī is suvrata, which means to take a vow to enact pious activities. Śukadeva Gosvāmī was an educated brahmacārī, and under the circumstance it was not possible for him to indulge in sex. This is strictly prohibited for brahmacārīs, and what to speak of a brahmacārī like Śukadeva Gosvāmī. But because the circumstances of the rasa dance were very suspect, Mahārāja Parīkṣit inquired for clarification from Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Śukadeva Gosvāmī immediately replied that transgressions of religious principles by the supreme controller testify to His great power. For example, fire can consume any abominable thing. That is the manifestation of the supremacy of fire. Similarly, the sun can absorb water from urine or from stool, and the sun is not polluted. Rather, due to the influence of sunshine the polluted, contaminated place becomes disinfected and sterilized. One may also argue that since Kṛṣṇa is the supreme authority, His activities should be followed. In answer to this question, Śukadeva Gosvāmī has very clearly said, īśvarāṇām, or the supreme controller, may sometimes violate His instructions, but this is only possible for the controller Himself and not for the followers. Unusual and uncommon activities by the controller can never be imitated. Śukadeva Gosvāmī warns that the conditioned followers who are not actually in control should never even imagine imitating the uncommon activities of the controller. A Māyāvādī philosopher may falsely claim to be God or Kṛṣṇa, but he cannot actually act like Kṛṣṇa. He can persuade his followers to falsely imitate the rasa dance, but he is unable to lift Govardhana Hill. We have many experiences in the past of Māyāvādī rascals deluding their followers by posing themselves as Kṛṣṇa in order to enjoy rasa līlā. In many instances they were checked by the government, arrested and punished. In Orissa, Ṭhākura Bhaktivinoda also punished the so-called incarnation of Viṣṇu who was imitating rasa-līlā with young girls. There were many complaints against him. At that time Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was a magistrate, and the government deputed him to deal with that rascal, and he punished him very severely. The rasa-līlā dance cannot be imitated by anyone. Śukadeva Gosvāmī warns that one should not even think of imitating it. He specifically mentions that if out of foolishness one tries to imitate Kṛṣṇa's rasa dance he will be killed, just like a person who wants to imitate Lord Śiva's drinking of an ocean of poison. Lord Śiva drank an ocean of poison and kept it within his throat. The poison made his throat turn blue, and therefore Lord Śiva is called nīla-kaṇṭha. But if any ordinary person tries to imitate Lord Śiva by drinking poison or by smoking gañja, he is sure be vanquished and will die within a very short time. Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa's dealing with the gopīs was under special circumstances."
Prabhupāda: It is not for public show. That is the idea.
Guest (1) (Indian man): Perhaps his doubt was whether he can do kṛṣṇa-japa while remaining in gṛhastha...
Prabhupāda: Who says no?
Guest (1): That was his doubt, I think, isn't it?
Guest (2) (Indian man): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). Do that. Where is the loss? You gain. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (1): Because he must be attending ārati and all that, so...
Prabhupāda: Then he'll not require. If he's in office...
Guest (1): He didn't want to change his clothes.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that...
Guest (1): He can do japa
Prabhupāda: No, no. It doesn't matter. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa always, the medicine is there already. Then it will rectify you automatically. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Where is the loss? It is open for everyone. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva (CC Adi 17.21). Especially in this age it is very difficult to... But if you take to this harer nāma, then gradually ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Everything will be cleansed within your heart and you'll understand. You take to this immediately. Somebody is giving prasāda?
Satsvarūpa: There's is regular distribution.
Mr. Pandiya: At the present days, sir, people do not go through either Gītā or Bhāgavata. They read some commentator. Then they get some doubt.
Prabhupāda: So if they willfully become misled, then who can check it?
Guest (5) (Indian man): He should hear it from sādhu, not from the other places.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (6) (Indian man): They have read other books written by other masters.
Prabhupāda: That is our misfortune. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Kṛṣṇa is personally speaking, but the mūḍhas and narādhamas, they will not hear to Kṛṣṇa. They have been described... Those who do not hear from Kṛṣṇa or His representative, they have been described, duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ: "Most sinful, rascals, mūḍha, gādhā, and lowest of the mankind." This is their position. It is not my manufacture. It is Kṛṣṇa's... Find out this, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. "No, there are so many educated..." Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. Why? Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. These rascals have taken: "Why shall I hear Kṛṣṇa? Why shall I accept Kṛṣṇa as God?" Āsuri-bhāvam. This is the basic principle of defect.
Pṛthu-putra: ...to show me. They were telling me that "You are going to see the representative of God." And when I came to that vision, I saw the person. At that time I didn't know who (it) was. But I had some doubts in my mind, and I was thinking, "Oh, that's probably another kind of propaganda." This was all in the dream. But when I came to that person sitting on the elevated seat in that forest, surrounded by many, many devotees, that person looked at me and proved to me that he was the representative of God. But after, I forgot. Maybe one year or something like this. One or two years after...
Prabhupāda: So there is no doubt about it that I am the representative of God.
Pṛthu-putra: Yes. But when I was...
Prabhupāda: Either you dream or not dream, I claim.
Pṛthu-putra: Yes. But this thing was just confirming. When I saw you the first time in Amsterdam, you were the same person that I saw in my dream one or two years previously.
Prabhupāda: That... You have read Caitanya-caritāmṛta? Guru-tattva. Guru-tattva. So there it is clearly said that guru is the manifestation of God. So it is confirmed in the śāstra. And all the ācāryas accept it. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **.
Prabhupāda: There is no question of subtle plane. You are on the gross plane. You first of all study gross things, and subtle, we shall see later on.
Pṛthu-putra: Of course, that was never a doubt. That's just the way I came to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And when I saw you...
Prabhupāda: So the guru is the representative of God. That's all right. Then what is your misunderstanding?
Pṛthu-putra: So then after I had some other things. For example, when I went to Egypt, in these pyramids one day I had some kind of contact on the subtle plane with persons who were supposed to live inside of the pyramids, and they gave me some kind of instructions.
Prabhupāda: Inside of the pyramid?
Pṛthu-putra: Yes. That was (wasn't) in the dream. But people, they were quite clear.
Prabhupāda: These are just like we know gold and we know mountain...
Pṛthu-putra: Yes.
Prabhupāda: What is that realization? This is the prescribed duty. So there is no question of realization. You must do it.
Pṛthu-putra: Yes. They must and they do also. They also do it.
Prabhupāda: Then where is the doubt? Let me go on with my duty. That's all. Why I shall be disturbed by so many things? Let me see whether I am discharging my duties properly. That's all.
Pṛthu-putra: That is what should be told to them.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He may be very fortunate that he's dreaming. "All right, keep aside. Do your duty. You are very fortunate, but don't bother now. First of all be strong and follow." Otherwise ei chure pākā. Ei chure pākā. Ei chure (?) you know? Stunted jackfruit. Jackfruit becomes so big, but one fruit, it is so small and... Taya eka channi sa. (?) And it has become ripened. So it has no taste, neither it can be used for cooking-useless. Ei chure pākā. A small fruit ripen, it is useless either for this person or for that. So they are called in Bengali, ei chure pākā. Do your duty. Guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā..., āra nā koriho **. That is bhajana. And as soon as he deviates-yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi. He is finished. That has happened to Nitāi. Ei chure pākā. So what these people will do? It is the effect of bad association. That's all.
Gurukṛpā: Convenient means for your sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: So we have to discuss so many things, immense field. Go out... (break) At least you have to accept that "I am blind." So how you can show others the path? You are blind.
Jayapatākā: By distributing your books, Śrīla Prabhupāda, then the people begin to realize that the scientists are blind. Once they begin to disbelieve and doubt the scientists, then the scientists themselves will also...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayapatākā: ...be able to come out with the truth.
Prabhupāda: When a common man will challenge them that "You are rascal. You are blind. You are showing us road?" Then it will be. I refuse to accept it.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Also, first of all, we have to show that their theory...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You have seen the progress?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Going on all right?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but I don't think it will be finished by... They say Daśaratha, but I have my doubts.
Prabhupāda: Then what can be done?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is your opinion?
Brahmānanda: Not the finishing work. There is so much marble finishing work.
Prabhupāda: The marbles, they are working or not?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. They're working. I think there must be at least one hundred workers going full time.
Prabhupāda: Marble.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Marble and otherwise also, woodworking, so many things. But I mean it's a very big project, so I think certainly they'll be done by next March. They could open on October, but it won't be finished completely.
Prabhupāda: No, why? We must finish to the point. Then we can...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Otherwise we won't impress properly.
Brahmānanda: They're making it very beautifully. So if it's done...
Prabhupāda: He has done wonderful. There is no such temple, at least in Bombay. No, and in India.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They applauded at that meeting.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If he knows about, anything about Caitanya, why should he say like that? Bogus temple. By attempting to establish a temple like that, he has diminished his value. And therefore it is doubtful whether he actually obtained this. Now, our Bon Mahārāja also writes "Doctor."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Purchased title. These deprogrammers are doing very active campaign work by getting entry into the schools, the public schools, to speak to the children in the age groups of twelve, between twelve and fifteen, junior high school, high school age. And they're making presentations to them about these different groups like ours, to beware of our groups. To beware of our groups. In other words, it's actually very bad because these children are innocent, and from a very young age now they're being told, "Watch out for the Hare Kṛṣṇas. They will brainwash you." Of course, that makes us even more appealing.
Prabhupāda: That is our advertisement.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Because when a young man, when a child is told by his... When a child is told by his parents, "Don't do something..."
Prabhupāda: They'll do it.
Prabhupāda: When it is arriving?
Gargamuni: It arrived around 4:30 this morning. First time jumbo jet landing. They said, "Very good landing."
Prabhupāda: Has to be. Sky was clear also. I was very much doubtful about the sky, but Kṛṣṇa's mercy... Today there is no fog.
Brahmānanda: Yesterday it was all overcast.
Gargamuni: Now they're all on their way here by bus. We passed them. There was about ten busloads.
Prabhupāda: So many people came?
Gargamuni: Oh, yes. At least... Full plane, 350.
Prabhupāda: No, the dignitaries, you said?
Gargamuni: Oh, yes, the general manager of Air India... In fact, the head of all the pilots of India himself landed the plane. He's the president of the whole pilots, eldestmost pilot.
Prabhupāda: Who is...?
Gargamuni: He said, "I must do this."
Prabhupāda: What is his name?
Gargamuni: I don't know his name.
Rāmeśvara: Hṛdayānanda and Pañcadraviḍa Swamis were preaching to this pilot for several hours. They went up to his cabin.
Gargamuni: He's the chief all over India of all the pilots. He personally landed the plane.
Prabhupāda: Where does he live?
Gargamuni: I don't know so much about him, but I can find out.
Prabhupāda: One pilot, he was coming in Bombay, Mr. Sharma. He was driving this 747, and one Parsi gentleman, he was also driving. Might be.
Prabhupāda: Why not do this business, guaranteed by Kṛṣṇa?
Bali-mardana: By your grace it is all possible. By your grace.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) You do this.
Bali-mardana: I think the potency is all coming from you.
Prabhupāda: No, it is there. I am simply trying to place before you. That's all. I believe. And that is my qualification. It is not that I doubt, no. You can say that is my qualification. Asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu (BG 7.1). Find out this verse. Asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, beginning of the...
Prabhupāda: Seventh Chapter.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Seventh Chapter. "Without doubt, free from doubt."
Bali-mardana: Hm. "Now hear, free from doubt."
Prabhupāda: J-ñ-a means "gya" or "jña."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Either one can be said, "jña," or "gya."
Hari-śauri: Jñāsyasi. "Now hear, O son of Pṛthā, Arjuna, how by practicing yoga in full consciousness of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from doubt."
Bali-mardana: Hm. One must become free from all doubt.
Prabhupāda: And then?
Bali-mardana: You always said because you had faith in the words of your Guru Mahārāja, therefore...
Prabhupāda: Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau (ŚU 6.23). Similar surrender to guru. Yathā deve, as you surrender to Kṛṣṇa—similar to guru—then your life is perfect. Yathā deve tathā gurau, tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ prakāśante. Then this meaning of the scripture will be revealed automatically. And you are singing daily, guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete kariyā aikya, āra nā kariha mane āśā **. Nothing more. Then your life is perfect. This is secret. Guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete kariyā aikya, āra nā kariha mane āśā **. Don't manufacture ideas, rascal. Then it is finished. In material world everyone is a demon-crazy. Everyone is manufacturing ideas. And they are suffering. All rascals, are manufacturing ideas. Kartāham iti manyate. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). He's fully under control of the laws of nature and he's thinking, "I am independent. I can manufacture ideas." Āḍhyo 'bhijanavān... That is... Find out this. Āḍhyo 'bhijanavān asmi ko 'nyo 'sti, some like that, in the Sixteenth Chapter. "Demon-crazy." Crazy demons are thinking like that. (chuckles) "I can manufacture something. I am very intelligent.
Translator: She is living with the mother of Jayapatākā.
Prabhupāda: Mother, that's nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā's mother.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. So she may also become a daughter of Jayapatākā's mother. And live together and read. She understands Italian? No.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't know if Jayapatākā's mother...
Translator: She speaks very little. I think she learned a few new words when she came. But like an Italian lady, she speaks a lot and very quick, but for the mother of Jayapatākā it's a little difficult.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're associating.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, you read Bhagavad-gītā, Italian, and study nicely, and whenever there is any doubt, you can ask me.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)
Prabhupāda: There are so many accusations. Now in the court has acknowledged, "It is genuine."
Mr. Koshi: But you don't require recognition of any court, do you?
Prabhupāda: You require. (laughter) I don't require. You require.
Mr. Koshi: Until then, there is a doubt.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you are after the court, after the judges. We are not after anyone. We are after one: Kṛṣṇa. That's all. For you, it is confirmed. We know what our duty is. For the last twelve years there were so many impediments. It did not stop us. There was so much harassment.
Mr. Koshi: Where? Here, in this country?
Prabhupāda: Not here, there.
Mr. Koshi: In the United States.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. They were kidnapped, they were taken by force, and so on, so on. So many times.
Prabhupāda: They are already dogs; otherwise how he is becoming dog? They have been already described. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ. They are already... Therefore they are going to change it, the body. They are already cats and dogs. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante (BG 8.6). A doggish mentality, you will get a dog's body, infections. It is clear, nature's law.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This vision no one else has except... I mean no one else has it, Śrīla Prabhupāda except for you. It is there in the śāstra, but I don't think anyone else has realized it. There may be many other Vaiṣṇava ācāryas or something in India, but they are not... By the fact that they are not preaching, it means they have not realized it.
Prabhupāda: No, they realized. They have no opportunity. They wanted to preach.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If they wanted to, wouldn't Kṛṣṇa have given them the opportunity?
Prabhupāda: Oh, I shall not doubt. They wrote comment.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I didn't mean in our line. I mean... Their writing is as good as preaching. I meant to say just like now there is this sampradāya and that sampradāya...
Prabhupāda: Ah, these are... Without this sampradāya, evaṁ paramparā, kick out on their face. All rogues and thieves.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're like animals. You never know what they will do. We were again reading about rāma-rājya, and Lord Rāma decided to go out and to hear what the citizens were saying. So in one home He heard that there was some doubt. Sītādevī was pregnant. There was some doubt about it. Immediately He decided that She had to be sent away. So exemplary, His character. It's described how He was distributing. He distributed everything He had, and He had nothing but the clothes left, and Sītā had nothing but Her nose ring. And the brāhmaṇas were so overwhelmed that they could understand that He was the Supreme Personality of Godhead and yet He was such an ideal king that they gave Him everything back. So there is no such dealings like this nowadays between the government and the citizens. Rather, they elect some leader and then they rebel and try to kill the leader. Just like in Pakistan. Now they're trying to kill this Bhutto.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā? There was attempt to kill?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I mean they'd like to somehow rid themselves of him.
Prabhupāda: Pakistan is spoiled now.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there any chance of uniting with India again, Pakistan?
Prabhupāda: They will.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really?
Prabhupāda: Because otherwise they are finished.
Prabhupāda: Compassion... That is little advanced. That's all. But that is not the stage of perfection. That animal has also, compassion. That is not a very big thing.
Indian man (1): You mean from human point of view.
Indian woman (5): No.
Indian man (1): Not to hold in doubt.
Indian woman (5): Can the human heart feel compassion?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Indian woman (5): The human heart cannot take to compassion?
Prabhupāda: There is compassion. It is revived. That's all. All the good qualities are there, because he's part and parcel of God, but in ignorance they are now covered. You have to discover. Just like Brahman. You are Brahman by nature, but you are thinking, "I am this...," "I am American," "I am Indian." And that is your disease. "I am Hindu." "I am Muslim." "I am gṛhastha." "I am sannyāsī." That is your disease, more or less. But actually you are Brahman because you are part and parcel of the Supreme Brahman. So when you actually realize yourself-brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54)—no problems. All problem finished. So that is required.
Prabhupāda: I know what are things, but still, they are specially specialists.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Little confirmation...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right. I know everything.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think, more than anything, you want confirmation just in case... (break)
Prabhupāda: That is my request, that I remain unconscious... (break) ... kapha-pitta-vāyu.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Conscious, unconscious and...
Prabhupāda: Hm. But never put me in hospital. You can refuse that "This is our Guru Mahārāja's order." Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bas. Let me die peacefully.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When Caitanya Mahāprabhu was unconscious, all that His disciples would do is they would chant in His ear.
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we'll take that example. Please don't ever doubt that. We will never let them. It will be over my dead body.
Prabhupāda: This is my order. If I become unconscious... Otherwise... (Bengali)
Bhakti-caru: (Bengali) (end)
Prabhupāda: That's all. That is... That will be glorious. They are very mean-minded. All mean-minded class, they are assembled together. That's all.
Jayapatākā: You are like the sun, Śrīla Prabhupāda. In front of you the darkness cannot remain. Everything is visible as it is. Your words remove all doubt.
Prabhupāda: Even... He's... Even a simple Vaiṣṇava, he also advocated, "Why you are keeping?"
Jayapatākā: Yeah. Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī.
Prabhupāda: Although he's considered their man, but his business is Vaiṣṇava. He told the real truth. That is Vaiṣṇava. "Why you are holding? You cannot do anything."
Jayapatākā: Even they give it, they're not giving anything.
Prabhupāda: No.
Jayapatākā: 'Cause they can't hold, anyway. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: That is the...
Jayapatākā: (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śatadhanya: Yes. Nobody.
Prabhupāda: Still in doubt. The brain is not clear. Your background is that rascal civilization. (indistinct) If you understand Bhagavad-gītā, you cannot support all this... (too faint) That I never said.
Śatadhanya: You are not moved by the scientists.
Prabhupāda: You should be firmly convinced about our philosophy. Otherwise where is that firm...? How you can support these rascal scientists? That is your rascaldom. Take it for granted. One who cannot understand this fact, that soul is immortal, body is... He is no more human; he is animal.
Śatadhanya: Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Ass and camel, you say. But if we follow strictly your instructions, then we may gradually understand.
Prabhupāda: Why gradually? That means the background is foolish civilization, that's all. It is simple thing, very simple. Child is becoming boy. The body has changed. Where is the difficulty? How you can defy this argument? (break) ...means disciple. Still if it is so, that means a dog's obstinate rascal. Immediately. Or animal. Animal cannot be convinced.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Our question was mostly coming out of how to draw what the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is saying. We're not supporting any kind of mundane argument, nor do we have any doubt in Bhāgavatam. We're simply trying to understand the Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: And that is your credit.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's why we were meeting.
Prabhupāda: Where is the difficulty?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I think that one of the difficulties arose from my seeing this map originally, because in this map it shows the continents that we today speak of as various continents. So when we all looked at this map, our immediate question was, as I said the other day, how do we go from one place to the next? It's not such an unreasonable question. So we're just trying to answer it from the Bhāgavatam—not to give our own speculations, because they're imperfect.
Prabhupāda: That is already answered. You are limited within certain area. So you can conclude in so many ways. Sara bhuri kara, kara bhuri sara.(?) There is a vegetable prepared, the following vegetables are taken: sara, bhuri, and kara. And again you say kara bhuri sara. This way or that way. Sara bhuri kara, kara bhuri sara. That three things, either you take this way consecutively or that way consecutively. But you have got only that kara bhuri sara. You have no experience. There is potato, there is (indistinct), there is (indistinct-Sanskrit). You know these three things. Sara bhuri kara. Kara bhuri sara. Just like they are making arrangement in the laboratory. Companies are there. They present in such a way, that he was flying in the sky, and big sputnik and very small town. Do you know that man came?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Man came and said he could do anything. Make any trick or illusion. (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: And they have done so in the matter of moon planet. They've never gone there by laboratory arrangement. Arizona?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Arizona.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you are already. You are doing very nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "P.S.: When is the scientific conference led by Svarūpa Dāmodara? We have also called for a meeting on the 20th August in the biggest hall in Colombo and challenged Dr. Kovoor to be present and produce life from chemicals. I doubt, however, that he will show up. But the audience will be tremendous, at least twenty-five hundred people to be sure. At all our programs we distribute halavā profusely. People here have never tasted such a thing. They love it. Halavā beats chemicals any time." So I can read you more later on, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break) What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: On the whole, they ...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Come out very nice.
Gurukṛpa: Yes. This is very nice. Big, too. Thick.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "We are always praying to Kṛṣṇa that He will give us the spiritual strength to help you in your mission of spreading Lord Caitanya's mercy. Now we are also constantly praying, 'Dear Lord Kṛṣṇa, if You desire, please cure Śrīla Prabhupāda.' Śrīla Prabhupāda, we are most grateful for Tamāla Kṛṣṇa's recent letter, in which he reports how much you enjoyed Back To Godhead issue number 7." This is number 8. "This is our only purpose in life, to give you some little amount of pleasure by our service. The devotees are also enjoying the magazine very much, especially your talks with Hayagrīva Prabhu on the bogus philosophers, and the 'Śrīla Prabhupāda Speaks Out' feature." The devotees like that too much, "Prabhupāda Speaks Out." "Please accept this Vyāsa-pūjā issue, Back to Godhead 12.8. We are offering to you this drop of gratitude for the ocean of love you are giving us. Please help us continue to work together in pushing on your great movement to benedict the world with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Your insignificant servants..."
Prabhupāda: How many copies they have published?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think... I got a letter from Satsvarūpa yesterday. I think this issue was 400,000. It varies between 400-and 500,000 copies. Generally about a half a million every month. Pretty good standard.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. (break) ...bad education. They have learned to... No education. (aside:) Get this down here. I am seriously thinking how to do. Organized, a society for sinful activities, Western. Now you are advanced, sincerely carry on. At least in America.
Jayapatākā: Bhavānanda, when he... Just the day after he left here, there was a letter addressed to him. One gentleman wrote and said, "I am fifty years old and I am a M.A...." He was a professor of something. And he said, "Now my children are all grown up and I'm simply working. So I have heard that you are a pure Vaiṣṇava, so I want to take shelter and serve Kṛṣṇa at your āśrama." So although people are putting in paper so many things, but they are understanding that "No, he is a Vaiṣṇava." So people believe what they want to believe. So whatever... It's all that... The devotees are devotees. When we see people, they always say, (Bengali). They don't believe it that the report is true. Everyone doubts the reports. Only those that are of envious mind, they believe in, because they want to believe that.
Prabhupāda: What... (Bengali)
Bhakti-caru: (Bengali)
Jayapatākā: They all think that actually the matter was not properly presented. So they're always asking that "Everything is now all right? Was it actually a fact or not?" In other words, they don't believe the reports that were given in the paper. They feel that, just from their own side, although they don't have any access to the truth, they all have a faith that the thing as it was presented couldn't have happened.
Prabhupāda: So you can sit me up and wash.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Bharadvāja: The last portion of the exhibition is called "The Perfection of Life," and it is comprised of two portions, two parts. The first part describes the process of self-realization, and the second part is called the transcendence into the spiritual world, with emphasis on the reality of transcendental variegatedness and personality. That means we're actually going to try to give the viewer an experience of becoming purified. His senses are gradually becoming purified through the process of self-realization, and then we take him through the different spiritual realizations. And then the last part is Vṛndāvana-līlā of Kṛṣṇa, to show that the Lord is a perfect person and that everyone has a place in His personal service in the spiritual world. So this is the... That's the simple outline, and I have another portion here which deals a little more elaborately. I'll just read some of the things to you. So we call the introduction to the exhibition, we call it "The Overture." In this introduction there are several points. The first point is that we are not made up of... We're showing what is the body. So we're showing that the body is made up of different elements. And there's a film that shows how the man is made up of different component parts We are showing that different organs are just like different machines and mechanical systems, and that life is consciousness and that consciousness is different from and did not come from matter. So we're showing that the heart is like a pump, and lungs are like bellows, and the eyes are like cameras, and the ears are like tape recorders, and the brain is like a computer, and so on. But behind all of these machines there is the witness, there is the seer, or the soul. So he is different from all these different machines. Then we show... We take everything down to smaller and smaller particles, and we bring everything down to atomic structure, and then we show that there does not seem to be any purpose to this. So where is life? Are we just...? My life is full of purpose, so where is the life here? Can we be just molecules? Where does life begin? On this portion of the exhibit we are working with Svarūpa Dāmodara and the Bhaktivedanta Institute to make a scientific presentation. This will involve films and dolls and other special effects to show the..., how ridiculous is the idea of material evolution, so-called evolution of matter into consciousness. So Svarūpa Dāmodara has his own presentation that we're going to use here. We've seen some of it during the conference. Then the second exhibit will perhaps be a whole group of scientists, and these scientists are sitting in one room, but they're all from different ages. And each one of them in turn expresses that they're having so many doubts. This we will take directly from their own quotations from different biographies, and we will show that the scientists are very confused about the origin of life, that they cannot actually explain anything, and they are saying this in their own words. Many scientists have said things like this-Darwin, Einstein. We have a list of eight here, and we can use their quotes. And they express bafflement, ignorance and failure to understand life or explain the universe. Then we show how... We put man back together out of chemicals, so-called. We're going back to the original man, which... We have analyzed one man, and now we're going back from the molecular level again back to the man. And then we show how the fetus is developing. We're showing that the life and consciousness is there from the very beginning. And then there is a film that shows this, and then that shifts to that display of the changing body.
Prabhupāda: Life begins from water.
Bharadvāja: Life begins from water? How is that?
Prabhupāda: Just like the sea. Sea, and from within the sea an exhibition of life begins in the form of sea animals or fish or similar. Then life develops, evolves. Life... Sea does not generate life, but in the material world, life begins from water.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Doubtful. Dubious. So Prabhupāda has more faith... Another thing, kavirājī medicine is not dangerous. Whereas these men, you can see how many side effects they have, these Western medicines. Prabhupāda becomes dizzy, he cannot sleep, he vomits. And as soon as we agree to x-ray, x-ray is only the first step, then there'll be more and more and more. When you call in a doctor it means you are ready to take his treatment. When you ask for an x-ray it means that after the x-ray you're ready to accept whatever they advise. Otherwise why do you call for x-ray? That's the whole point. So the real issue we have to decide is whether Prabhupāda wants to take the allopathic medicine or not. If he says, "I don't want allopathic medicine," what is the use of taking x-ray? Because the kavirājas don't care for x-rays. They say that simply by pulse they can see everything. Just like this man, he took the pulse and immediately he reached for the kidneys. We did not tell him anything, but he took the pulse and immediately he reached for the kidneys and the stomach. And he said, "Kidneys are completely malfunctioning, and the fire of digestion is nearly extinguished." I think that's a very practical statement if you think about it. Prabhupāda, he's passing urine, he can pass stool, but what is the real problem, the biggest problem? There's no taste, no appetite. And that you have to admit, he has no idea how to get appetite, Dr. Gopal. He has no idea. He's thinking this and this. He doesn't even understand there's a fire of digestion. Where does it mention that Kṛṣṇa is sitting as the fire of digestion in the stomach? Where does it say that in the allopathic books? (laughs) It doesn't. But Prabhupāda has said it from the very beginning: "I have no digestion." So the question is how to wake up that fire. And they can't do this, these allopathic doctors. Maybe the kavirājas can do it.
Bhagatji: So there is one Vedic kavirāja in Mathurā. Should I bring him?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well I don't know. First of all there's now already two kavirājas involved. Maybe we should first let this rāmānujī do his work.
Bhagatji: Today, he came today.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's a kavirāja. Oh, yeah. And Vanamali is coming tomorrow. So I think before you call a third man...
Prabhupāda: No, Vanamali is no use.
Prabhupāda: Eleven.
Bharadvāja: Then the last exhibit is not yet complete. It's a film. It shows Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna at the end talking, and Kṛṣṇa says,
- sarva-dharmān parityajya
- mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja
- ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo
- mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ
- (BG 18.66)
Then Kṛṣṇa asks Arjuna, "Have you heard all this with your mind at full attention, and is your doubt and illusion now dispelled, and are you prepared to act according to My instructions?" And Arjuna says, "Yes, I shall do whatever You like."
Prabhupāda: Very good. So it is not yet officially open.
Bharadvāja: No.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Bharadvāja: Officially it is not open yet. The reason is because there's still some minor difficulties in the computer, and so everything is not... When I left everything was not yet functioning smoothly. So many important people have been taken through, but it is not open to the public yet. But it will be open very soon. Actually, when I left, everything had already been... The computer is now working, but there was some lights being checked out, some wiring. And as soon as that is finished, then the programming will be done. I have sent a letter back to Los Angeles, asking them to complete the programming while I'm here in Vṛndāvana, at least a temporary program. So it is not difficult to do. It is complicated to do it. And I've asked them to make a film of the exhibition and send it here so that you could see it.
Prabhupāda: I cannot go there?
Bharadvāja: You can do whatever you like.
Śatadhanya: After Bombay, Śrīla Prabhupāda, if you're strong enough, then we can go.
Prabhupāda: There is... And who is making khol?
Bharadvāja: Soul?
Prabhupāda: Khol, khol.
Prabhupāda: That is impossible.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Impossible, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: No, seeing the pill, what to see?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He may be able to recognize it has one of the types of makara-dhvaja. The main point is that Vanamali said it's makara-dhvaja. So by showing, he may be able to recognize, "Yes, this appears to be." At least we can get his opinion. Because that other kavirāja, that Rāmānujī, threw some doubt on Vanamali's medicine, saying "This is not makara-dhvaja." So we're having some doubt and about it and Vanamali. If by seeing, this man would say, "Yes, this is one of the ways it's made. It does appear like this," then that would restore...
Prabhupāda: No, he is coming. If he is coming, he can say here.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But you have not sent the money, Vrindavan. So why you're worried about the letter reaching late? First of all send the money, then worry about it. There's no worry. Once you send the money, the letter will come. I don't think that you can doubt that the letter will come. The main point is that the money has to come first. You have no reason to suppose that the letter will be delayed. It will come. They already know it. As soon as they receive five thousand rupees, the BBT, Bombay, will immediately inform Māyāpur, "Five thousand rupees been received. The car may be given." They know that. It's set up. It's a set-up. And you have to live up to your side to pay the five thousand rupees. It's not very much. It's not that much.
Prabhupāda: Now, with the help of Tamāla Kṛṣṇa and who else? Chandra. You can...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Take this order, I think.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And if the bank sees that you have got fifty percent, they will advance.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. Especially with the presentation of the bill. Against the bill...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda, this is one of the reasons I wanted the kavirāja to be with you was to be able to answer your doubts, because I felt that he could far better than we can. But factually speaking, it seems to me there's every... I mean if he were here now he would feel your pulse and he would be able to understand that your pulse is not weak. Your heart is good. You're starting to pass more urine, you're getting sufficient rest, you're able to take things like milk, which you couldn't take before, and these are positive signs. And the one thing that we're looking for, strength, he already said will not come immediately, and he's not even giving any medicine for increasing strength yet. The thing is, we're a little impatient because we've waited so many months and had so many failures with so many different doctors, but really, this doctor, so far, has the best record, his medicines. So we think that you should be encouraged. We feel hopeful. Even if you feel hopeless, we are hopeful.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali with Bhakti-caru)
Bhakti-caru: That's 40 grams, stool.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I think you should take the medicine now. Can Bhakti-caru bring it to you?
Prabhupāda: The same medicine?
Bhakti-caru: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This same medicine will continue till kavirāja comes back and gives new medicine. They are all the same medicine, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There are two different types of medicines. One, I'm supposed to give once in the morning, once in the evening. And another one is in the noontime and late in the evening. And there's one medicine, that's sometime in the afternoon.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not very painful to take the medicine, is it?
Bhakti-caru: Does it taste bad, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the medicine? Does it taste very bad?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Why they suppose?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I personally don't feel at this point... Frankly speaking, I don't think that this reply on his part is very good. I don't think it's proper. He's speaking about a settlement. First of all there is no settlement. The whole legal way in which he's worded this letter indicates to me that he's not taking things in a very... Seems to me he has some motives. He has no reason to doubt this scheme. That's my point. And if he's thinking that he has some kind of rights... (break) ...offices. They're very pleased. And they were especially pleased to get these fixed deposits. Immediately we gave them this six lakhs' fixed deposits, they were very happy with this. They've got about something like 350 accounts already from outsiders within a month or two. They're very, very pleased. They feel that this will become a full branch very quickly, and they have a great amount of space, and they're not at all sorry about the price that they're paying. And it's a good income for our temple.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nearly ten thousand rupees a month.
Prabhupāda: Why ten thousand?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think it's quite ten thousand. I think it's less. Eight or nine thousand. Four rupees....
Prabhupāda: No. It is... Plus interest of the money.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: As your humble disciples, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we are ready to take my instruction that you've kindly given us, but at the same time, you have advised us many times that we shouldn't take unnecessary risk. Just like few days ago you were telling a Bengali saying, saying that when you are doubtful, don't do it. You instructed us.
Prabhupāda: That is material. (laughter)
Jagadīśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, can you tell us why you want to go on the parikrama?
Bhakti-caru: (Bengali) (break)
Prabhupāda: ...good paddy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This seems like suicide, Śrīla Prabhupāda, this program. It seems to some of us like it's suicidal.
Prabhupāda: And this is also suicidal.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. Prabhupāda said, "And this is also suicide." Now you have to choose which suicide.
Prabhupāda: The Rāvaṇa will kill and Rāma will kill. Better to be killed by Rāma. Eh? That Mārīca—if he does not go to mislead Sītā, he'll be killed by Rāvaṇa; and if he goes to be killed by Rāma, then it is better.
| Page Title: | Doubt (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 21 of Feb, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=159, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 159 |