Prabhupāda: The energy of Kṛṣṇa is working. Just like you want to paint one nice flower, so you have to take the brush and the color and you have to endeavor. Not that automatically coming, this beautiful flower. So how do you think this beautiful flower has come automatically? This is foolishness. There is also the brush, the paint, but it is so perfect that just like you cannot see how the other typewriter is striking. You cannot say it is automatically striking. There is arrangement. But this arrangement you do not understand. Therefore you are foolish, you are thinking that this typewriter is striking automatically. It is not automatically. Here the other typewriter it is stroken and there is electric arrangement and it is striking. So you have to understand like... That is sura. And asura, they will say, "No, there is no God. It is taking automatically, it is going on," This is foolishness. The asura means foolish, first-class foolish, that's all. Why it has become so? That is explained here. That they do not know how to behave, nāpi cācāraḥ.
Do not understand (Conversations 1975)
Expressions researched:
"did not understand"
|"didn't understand"
|"do not understand"
|"does not understand"
|"doesn't understand"
|"don't understand"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Thank you. This is the plan. If this plan is not executed, then there is suffering. So this human life is given to the living entity for understanding this plan and do the needful. If they do not understand, then they are punished. (break)
Guru-kṛpa: ...today is that because the people have never been given any information what Kṛṣṇa's plan is, either they're too old or too... They're attached. They can't understand anything. That's the majority of the people. Once they get past thirty years old, it's very difficult for them to accept something.
Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, usually on saṅkīrtana I avoid old people because they just don't understand, and it's very difficult to approach them.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. Old people should be instructed to forget what they have learned. He sādhavaḥ sakalam eva vihāya dūrād caitanya-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam. This is the formula of preaching. Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī, he is begging to the people, dānte nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya kāku-śataṁ kṛtvā cāham bravīmi: "Taking a straw in my mouth, with folded hands and flattering you hundred times, I am submitting one request." "What is that?" This is the process of approaching these rascals, old fools who have learned something and does not like to forget.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Oh, you don't understand English.
Hṛdayānanda: (Spanish)
Hanumān: They're just amazed looking at you.
Guest (6): (Spanish)
Hṛdayānanda: They said they are simply here feeling your presence, and they realize that you're very busy, and so they are simply feeling love for you.
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much.
Prabhupāda: No, first of all you must understand the importance of the business. Then we can do it. If you do not understand the importance of the business, then you cannot do it.
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He says that he feels that you've already answered this question, but that they didn't catch it, that he thinks the key is that you said that the truth is not outside, but it's actually within us. We have to find it within us.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Prabhupāda: When you come to the good, you will understand what is good. When you come to the bad, you understand what is bad.
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He does not understand.
Prabhupāda: Suppose now there are a class of thief and class of honest men. So if you associate with the thieves, you will learn how to steal. But you understand also that "People hate us." The thieves, the thief class, they know that the people hate, the police arrest, the police put them... They also know that. But because they are habituated, they cannot give it up.
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He still does not understand how we can say that one activity is bad or good. For example, he said that we gave the example of thieves, but that implies that previously there was already a standard that "This is good, and this is bad." But he wants to know how he can know definitely what is good and what is bad.
Prabhupāda: To become God conscious is good, and anything else, all bad. God is good. Therefore, if you are God conscious, you are good, and if you are not God conscious, then you are bad.
Prabhupāda: This is Sukadeva Gosvāmī. And there is natural food, fruits. So... And if you want still nice home, go to the cave. It is already made. Why should you waste your time? This is the Bhāgavata philosophy. But they are wasting time simply how to live in nice apartment, how to manufacture nice mattress, pillow. This is... So the whole philosophy is: save your time and make your life perfect within this short duration of life which you have obtained in this human form of life. Durlabhaṁ manusaṁ janma. It is very rarely you have got. Utilize it. And if you don't utilize, if you waste your time in these bodily comforts and next life you become a cat and dog, then what is the benefit? They do not understand this. (break)
Prabhupāda: So both of them are life. And what is this body?
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He doesn't understand very much the meaning of the question.
Prabhupāda: Just like the animal. He is busy in maintaining the body. He wants to eat, he wants to sleep, and he wants to have sex, and he wants to defend. So man is also in need of these things. The method may be different. So dog's eating and man's eating, the method may be different. That method is also different in different countries also. So because the method may be different, therefore he is distinct from animal?
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He feels that you don't understand what he's saying, that actually he does not feel that we should dedicate ourselves exclusively to the body...
Prabhupāda: I don't say exclusively. I say the first care should be taken of the driver, and taking care of the car is secondary.
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He agrees.
Prabhupāda: So why you do not take care of the dead body? Because the driver is gone. Then who is important, the car or the driver? So that is the defect of the modern civilization. They don't take care of the driver. He is taking care of the car. So you said your, that what is the problems of human society. This is the root cause of the problems, that we are not taking care of the driver; we are simply taking care of the car. But if we take care of the driver, the driver knows how to take care of the car.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, every country, every country. Now, just like you are highly educated. Your country could not give you service. You are coming here. And that is śūdra. One who cannot live independently, he is śūdra. Paricaryātmakaṁ karyaṁ śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In this age, everyone is practically śūdra, because nobody can live independently. So we are producing mass śūdras. Therefore it is in chaotic condition. The Communist is the last word of the śūdras. The Communist philosophy is that "We are worker. We have all the power. We must have all the power." And that they are doing. And because they do not want to obey any authority, therefore they are denying existence of God. This is the tendency of the modern society. Not only they do not know what is God, and they are trying to disobey the orders of God. So practically there is no religion. And without religion human society is animal society. Dharmeṇa hīnā pasubhiḥ samānāḥ. "Human being without any ideas of religion, God, he is no better than animal." That is the difference between animal and human being. Animal eats, we eat; animal sleeps, we sleep; animal have sexual intercourse, we have; animal also defends, we also defend. These are common features. And what is the special feature? The special feature of human being—that he can understand what is God. So if he does not understand God, he is animal, because the distinction between animal and man is being avoided.
Dr. Wolf: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think if they're trying to create life they want to claim authorship. They want to say, "We did it," but they do not understand that they will...
Prabhupāda: What do they want to claim by creating life?
Dr. Wolf: Authorship. Originators. They want to be...
Prabhupāda: Origin is already there. How you can be originator? Already life is there. How you can be originator? That is your foolishness.
Satsvarūpa: Yes. "Human intellect is developed for advancement of learning in art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology, economics, politics, etc. By culture of such knowledge the human society can attain perfection of life. This perfection of life culminates in the realization of the Supreme Being, Viṣṇu. The śruti therefore directs that those who are actually advanced in learning should aspire for the service of Lord Viṣṇu. Unfortunately persons who are enamored by the external beauty of viṣṇu-māyā do not understand that culmination of perfection or self-realization..."
Prabhupāda: Nature, viṣṇu-māyā, nature. They are bewildered simply by seeing the nature. Then?
Devotee (3): One nice boy in the airport, he was a soldier boy. He had, like read a Kṛṣṇa trilogy, and he was coming through the airport, and I approached him. And he immediately saw the books, and he immediately wanted one. And I didn't even have to ask him for the donation. Automatically he gave $20. And then I was walking down the hall, and I saw him again, and he came running up to me again, and he said, "Here, you're doing such a wonderful thing. Let me give you another $20." And somebody walked by as I was giving him another book, and they said, "Don't take that book. It's a rip-off. These people are trying to rip you off." And he said, "They don't know what they're talking about. They don't understand." And then, after that, he walked up to Cārudeṣṇa Prabhu and gave him another $40. So actually he gave something like $65 or $70 in the airport just because he had read one trilogy.
Devotee (5): Just like in the Kṛṣṇa book it says anyone who reads this, he will become a devotee.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact. Anyone who reads that book, he will become Vaiṣṇava.
Prabhupāda: They are wasting time simply and cheating others. That's all.
Reporter: They are wasting time.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they do not understand what is their position; therefore their teaching is simply waste of time. This is the position: that God is great, and we are all dependent on God. Who will deny this? This is the original principle. Now, in one religious system it may be taught in a little different way. In another religious system it may be... But if there is no such sense that "God is the supreme, and we are all subordinate servant..." This should be the basic idea. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:
Prabhupāda: Alive, we have been given chance to understand God. But if you don't understand, then next life you become a dog.
Reporter: A dog?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter)
Reporter: Why a dog?
Prabhupāda: Why not? (laughter) Suppose if God says that "You become a dog," can you check it?
Reporter: Is there any way I can prepare...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that you can if you surrender.
Prabhupāda: All questions are answered in the Bhagavad-gītā. You read Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly, and you will get all answer, all problems solved. Unfortunately, the so-called politicians and scholars, they misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā and ruin their career and misguide others. That is going on. All rascals are doing that. "This word means this," as if Kṛṣṇa left this word to be explained by a rascal. This is going on. He does not think of his position, that at any moment he will be kicked out of this platform of so-called leadership, so-called educated teacher, and he is commenting on the words of Kṛṣṇa. This is going on. He does not understand his position, that "What I am?"
Prabhupāda: So why don't you know yourself? Why you are in darkness? Kṛṣṇa says everything in the Bhagavad-gītā. In the beginning He says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam (BG 2.13). In this body there is the occupier of the body. So if you think yourself that you are this body, that is your wrong. You try to understand that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi." That's the fact. So this human life is meant for that purpose. So why should you not do it? Why should you keep yourself in darkness? That is very risky. If I keep myself in the darkness like cats and dogs, that "I am this body," then my life is very risky. By nature's way we are given this opportunity, human form of life. If we do not understand our position, if we remain in the same category, bodily concept of life, then we are missing the chance. After all, you have to change this body. It is not permanent settlement that you shall remain Indian, you shall remain American.
Prabhupāda: That is responsibility. So this child, this boy, if he remains in darkness that he will continue this childhood body, and father, mother will take care of him—"I don't require to take any education"—then future life, when he will be young man, he will be not nicely posted for want of education. Then how miserable it will be. Similarly, if we don't take care of this education that "I am not this body, my future body will be different, and if I do not know what kind of different body I'll have to accept..." Suppose we accept some lower grade of body. Then what is my future? So if we don't understand this philosophy as Kṛṣṇa teaches, asmin dehe dehinaḥ, "Within this body there is the occupier, soul," so if you do not understand, that is very risky life. Nature's way must go on. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). We cannot control over the nature's way. And we get our next body according to the association of different modes of nature.
Prabhupāda: That is required, not that what is brain doing, the leg has to do the same. The leg may do his own way, but the aim is satisfaction of the order of the... I ask the leg, "Please take me from this room to that room." That is leg's duty. I am satisfied. So not that Kṛṣṇa is only one-sided. That they do not understand. Kṛṣṇa is the īśvara, controller of the whole creation. So if He gives you something to do for His satisfaction, you do that. It does not matter whether you are doing the same thing. The same example: Leg is doing something else than the hand, hand is doing something else than the brain, but the real purpose is to satisfy the whole. So Kṛṣṇa is not asking Vyāsadeva to come and fight in the battlefield of Kurukṣetra. Vyāsadeva is doing his own work. He is writing literature, Vedavyāsa. He is asking Arjuna to fight. But although the activities are different-Vyāsadeva is writing Vedānta-sūtra, and Arjuna is fighting—but both of them are equally important.
Prabhupāda: The same child, when he will get a youthful body, he will do like that. The soul is the same. But on account of different type of body he is acting differently. That is practical. A small child, in the childhood he will talk like nonsense. People will enjoy it. But the same child, when he is grown up and he talks like nonsense, people will call him nonsense, rascal. Why? The body has changed. The circumstance has changed. This is the real education, that we are changing body, and according to our bodily situation we are acting differently. That they do not understand. There is no school, college or education about the soul and the soul's changing different position of different body, and in this way he remains materially entangled. And the real relief is to get him out of this bodily concept of life and advance in spiritual concept of...
Prabhupāda: Deity is also expression, form is also expression, but they do not understand it.
Yoga student: But the Sufis do, because in the Sufi...
Prabhupāda: They have got form worship, Sufis?
Yoga student: They don't worship form as such, but they speak of it in the poetry. They say... In one poem of Hafez(?) there's a meeting between Hafez and his spiritual master. And he asks the spiritual master (recites verse in Parsi). He asked, "I asked him, 'What was this current, this chain of idols that we must worship?' And he replied so that my heart might moan, lament about the dark night..."
Prabhupāda: "Dog night"?
Prabhupāda: Difficulty is not there, but we have to understand from teacher. Just like the many subject of knowledge we do not understand in the beginning, but by hearing from the teacher, gradually we understand. So that teacher must be perfect, in full knowledge, and then we can understand from him. So we accept Kṛṣṇa. Because He is God, He is perfect. So we receive knowledge from Him, and that is Bhagavad-gītā. So knowledge from Kṛṣṇa or His pure servant, both of them are equal. They can give us that knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Servant. God is supreme, we are all subordinate. God is maintaining us just like father maintains. So it is the duty of the son to be obedient to the father, to act according to his order. Then everything is perfect. At the present moment on account of this bodily concept of life every one of us thinking nationality and duty of nation, duty of the community, duty of the family, so many duties. But actually we, being spiritual, our only duty is to serve God. We are serving; everyone is serving. That is our constitutional position, to serve. But at the present moment we are serving māyā, illusion, and we have to be trained up to serve the Supreme Being. Then our life is perfect. (break) ...at the present moment, although there are many religious system, they have no clear conception of God, although religion means to approach God. There is no religion throughout the whole world which is not connected with the word God. So religion means to understand God. But if we have no clear conception of God, then the religion is defective. Do you admit it or not? Religion means to understand God or God's laws. That is religion. But if we do not understand what is God, then that religion is also defective.
Prabhupāda: No, no, why advaita, dvaita? First of all you take the preliminary things, that you are accepting the philosophy of Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā, but you have no knowledge of the person who has spoken Bhagavad-gītā. Then where is your understanding? You do not understand the person who has spoken the Bhagavad-gītā. Then what is the meaning of your understanding Bhagavad-gītā?
Indian man: No, we have to try...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Try, try, another thing.
Indian man: We have to understand it.
Prabhupāda: No, you have to understand it... First of all you have to understand Kṛṣṇa, the person who is speaking.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is needed. That is needed. That is needed. If you do not understand what is Kṛṣṇa, when Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, how you will accept it?
Indian man: I will accept, but not as Kṛṣṇa of Bhāgavata. I may not know anything about Him as of...
Prabhupāda: No, no, this is not very good theory. You do not know anything about Him, and you surrender to Him. What is this?
Indian man: We may have our own idea.
Prabhupāda: No. He says... He says that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: (BG 7.7) "There is no superior authority than Me." Then if you do not understand what is that Kṛṣṇa, then how you accept Him as superior authority?
Guest: I think we have to define the concept of God first, and then only...
Prabhupāda: No, no, concept of God is there in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Guest: What is that concept first, please?
Prabhupāda: But they do not understand.
Guest: But the Sufi's do because the Sufi poets...
Prabhupāda: They have got form, worship, the Sufis?
Guest: They don't worship form as such, but they ah, they speak of it in the poetry. They say ah...in one point (indistinct) There is a meeting between (indistinct) and his spiritual master. And he asked the spiritual master (unknown language). I asked, He asked what was this current, this chain of idols that we must worship? And he replied, "So that my heart might, might mourn, lament, the dark night."
Atreya Ṛṣi: This is our standard of management. Listen. If the temple president doesn't understand it, teach him.
Jayatīrtha: That's right.
Prabhupāda: That's right. So all these things you write. Otherwise you forget.
Jayatīrtha: Yeah, that, we'll... The next point is to insure that the proper criterion for recommending candidates for initiation be followed...
Prabhupāda: That is being done.
Jayatīrtha: ...and to insure that the...
Prabhupāda: The president recommends, or the GBC recommends.
Prabhupāda: Change. So the body has changed. But I remember that I had such a body. Therefore I am different from the body. I wish to possess again that body, to jump, but I cannot. This is the condition of my life. By nature's law I am getting one body and I am changing to another body. This is going on. So as in this life I have got this experience, that I have changed my body, similarly, the greatest authority, Kṛṣṇa, says that "When this body will be finished, you'll get another body," very simple thing. But these rascals do not understand. All these rascals, they do not understand. There is practical experience, and there is authoritative statement, and still, they do not know, and still, they are big, big professors, big, big learned scholars, doctor, scientist, philosophers. What is this?
Prabhupāda: It is very simple thing, that "I am changing my body, and similarly, I'll change this body." This should be understood by my present circumstances of life, and it is confirmed by the greatest authority, Kṛṣṇa. Knowledge by authority and knowledge by experience, both things are there. And still, the rascals do not understand. Knowledge is gathered by experience, and knowledge is gathered from the authority. Just like I ask my father, "What is this?" Father says, "This is bell." So this is knowledge. I get it from my father. And by experience, when I push it, it is ringing. So understand, "This is bell." So two sources of knowledge: by practical experience and by authority.
Prabhupāda: Because they are rascals, they are speculating. They do not understand how knowledge is gathered. This is our charge. You refute it.
Haṁsadūta: (German)
Guest (2) (Indian man): Just one sentence, Prabhupāda. Another thing is they know they are taking body again and again. They are taking the body again and again after birth. Why they are committing again and again sins and which mode of nature...?
Prabhupāda: Because they do not know how to stop this process. That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā. You can stop this. But these... Again rascals. They'll not take the method. Kṛṣṇa said that "If you simply try to understand Me," janma, "why I appear and why I come here and work," karma..., "they are divine."
Prabhupāda: It is a fact. I have already changed dress. I had a child dress. I had a boy's dress. I had a young man dress. Now I have got old man's dress. Now, Kṛṣṇa says that, "This also, you'll have to change." So why I am not inquiring "What kind of dress I am going to have?" and "How I am changing this dress?" So young man doesn't want to become old man. That is a fact. But if a young man says, "No, no, I don't want old man's dress," will it be accepted? Nature will say, "No, you must accept." Where is the remedy for this? Why these rascals do not understand that "I am fully under the control of nature's law, and I am declaring free. I am becoming philosopher"? He's fully under the control of nature's law. You have read Bhagavad-gītā. It is said, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmaṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). You are fully under the control of the laws of nature, and still you are thinking "I am independent. There is no superior controller." What is this nonsense? Hm? What is the answer?
Prabhupāda: So why these rascals do not understand? The bugs come from the perspiration. So in the perspiration, there is all chemicals, and the bug is coming. Now, where is their chemical? Who has put here chemical? This grass is coming. How it is coming? It is so...
Pañcadraviḍa: The chemicals are coming from the perspiration.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is another.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Seed.
Prabhupāda: There, that the, this grass is coming out of the earth. Wherefrom it is coming? Who has put the chemicals? And the eggs of the birds, they are produced in the womb of the birds, and from there the life is coming, the bird is coming. Where is the chemical?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why don't you solve? There are so many land. Come here and grow food. Grow fruit. That is... That is the desire of Kṛṣṇa. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Produce food and eat in sufficiently, be strong, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is our philosophy. Why you are producing bolts and nuts, tire and tubes? Eat. Rascal. They do not know that first of all you must eat. No, everyone is engaged in industry. Why? Kṛṣṇa does not say that "Take to industry." Kṛṣṇa says, "Produce foodstuff." Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. If you produce foodstuff, then both your animals, yourself, will be happy, becoming strong. Why do they manufacture other things? All these people are engaged in manufacturing, and nobody is manu..., er, growing food. Therefore the price of food grain is rising. Suppose I am growing food, and you are not growing, so you have to purchase from me. I'll ask, "You have to pay this price." And you have to pay. And if you grow your own food, there is no such question. The simple economic problem, solution, this rascal cannot take. If you grow your own food, I grow my own, then who is going to purchase? The price will be reduced automatically. If you have no customer, then you have to reduce your price. But they do not understand even the simple thing that "God has given us enough land to produce food grain, and we must eat." They do not understand this.
Prabhupāda: You are so senseless that you do not understand that you are suffering. That is required, just like cats and dogs, they are suffering, they cannot understand. Your position is like that. So our point is that you are suffering, but if you become obedient to God, you will not suffer, that is our propaganda. But you are so fool, rascal, that you do not know that you are suffering. And still you are denying. God is the master, so if you do something wrong, you must suffer. That you are suffering. And we are preaching, that don't do wrong, be very nice, you will not suffer. This is our propaganda.
Prabhupāda: That is not the... Then you do not understand. Ācārya is not God, omniscient. He is servant of God. His business is to preach bhakti cult. That is ācārya.
Jayādvaita: And that is the perfection.
Prabhupāda: That is the perfection. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Jayādvaita: So we have a misunderstanding about what perfection is?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Perfection is here, how he is preaching bhakti cult. That's all.
Prabhupāda: No, Rādhā... There, Bhāgavata, there is. That is foolish proposition, "In the Bhāgavata there is no Rādhārāṇī." There is. But at least in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa has never said about His Vṛndāvana-līlā. No. That is very confidential. That is not for common man. The common man, first of all let him understand what is Kṛṣṇa. That is Bhagavad-gītā. That they do not understand. Even big, big leaders, politicians, scholars, they do not understand. Because they do not take to Kṛṣṇa's instruction, therefore they fail to understand. And what they'll understand about Rādhārāṇī?
Prabhupāda: And if you are outsider, why should you expect to come into my family life? This is common sense. You do not understand Kṛṣṇa, and you want to understand Kṛṣṇa's dealings with Rādhārāṇī. That is very confidential. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī-śaktir asmāt. You have to understand Kṛṣṇa, then His pleasure potency, hlādinī-śakti. The difficulty is that we do not want to become a regular student. Haphazardly, here and there, here and there, but I remain the same thing. It is a science. Jñānaṁ me paramaṁ guhyaṁ yad vijñāna-samanvitam. Tad vijñāna samanvitam. Jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānaṁ pravakṣyāmi anasūyave, yaj jñātvā na anyaj jñātavyam avaśiṣyate... (BG 7.2). But the Vedas do not say like that.
Amogha: Sometimes they claim that we should not claim that our choice is the true choice, but they don't understand that any of those meanings can be true at the same time.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this body is true. We have got body. We don't say it is false. It is true. Bodily pains and pleasures we feel, so how can I say that the body is false? The body means bodily pains and pleasures, then we are affected, so how you can say it is false? Similarly the mind, and soul is absolute thing. Factually. So any item you take, you can understand by thorough study.
Kim: I'm not very familiar with the Hindu scriptures, but I have read some Upaniṣads, and there's the idea that somehow ātman is Brahman? I don't understand that at all, so perhaps you could say something about that?
Prabhupāda: Which Upaniṣad are you reading?
Kim: I've read the Chāndogya, the—I don't know the pronunciations.
Prabhupāda: There are one hundred and eight Upaniṣads.
Kim: I don't know the pronunciations, that's the difficulty.
Prabhupāda: Have you read Īśopaniṣad?
Kim: Pardon?
Kim: No. (reads purport to) "...and Paramātmā or Supersoul realization is the realization of His sat and cit features." I don't understand that. I read the words, but...
Prabhupāda: It requires elucidation. "Complete whole" means, just like your body is complete whole, and there are so many other things, there are so many holes in the body, there are so many hairs on the body, there are so many hairs on the head, so many fingers, eyes, ears—so many things—but the body is a complete unit, working as a complete machine. And there are so many things. Similarly, the whole cosmos is complete, exactly like this body is a machine. Similarly the whole cosmos is a big machine. It is complete. One sun is there and keeping everything complete. The day and night, the seasonal changes, the equator, the temperature, the moonlight, the other planets, we living beings, the vegetables—everything is complete by God.
Kim: From my own understanding I took it to be just the world, everything that is, but I don't understand.
Prabhupāda: Not clear idea.
Kim: I had an experience in New Zealand...
Prabhupāda: So therefore you have to experience from authority—what is Brahman. This is explanation of Brahman. So this Brahman realization is first, then Paramātmā realization, then God realization. Just like you realize the sunshine, very big, all over the universe, but you have to see wherefrom the sunshine is coming—the sun globe. That is localized. You are seeing just like a small ball, but actually this big thing, sunshine, is coming from it. Is it not? So which is important, the sunshine or the globe?
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But one who does not know, why is he saying that Bhagavad-gītā was written five thousand years ago? He does not know. That is my point. If you had known then you would not have said like that, foolishly, that Bhagavad-gītā was spoken five thousand years ago. It is avyayam, it is eternally there. It is eternally there. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). Avyayam means which is never under deterioration. It is eternally existing. That is avyayam. Just like ātmā, soul, avyayam. There is no deterioration. It is there. So forty millions of years ago once it was spoken, but in due course of time it is now lost; therefore I am speaking it again to you. You did not read Bhagavad-gītā it is said there? How do you say it was written five thousand years ago? It is already there. It was first spoken forty millions of years ago, now it is lost. The material world is like that. One thing is lost sometimes. Therefore I am speaking to you. And why are you speaking to me? Because you are my devotee. This is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. That means only the devotees can understand Bhagavad-gītā, and it is always existing, and because it is now lost... Just like we are putting Bhagavad-gītā, why am I stressing so much? It is lost. By the so-called Gandhis and Dr. Radhakrishnan, they have made it lost. Therefore we are stressing. The thing is there. We are simply trying to revive it again. It is not that it is the beginning. No. It is already there. But these rascals have made it lost. People do not understand it, do not follow it, that is the difficulty.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, jñāna cakṣuṣa. You can see with knowledge how this man is being transferred to the eternal life. But you have no such knowledge! You are monkey. A monkey cannot see, a monkey cannot understand. Suppose there is a dog at my house. He does not understand how I have come here, because he has no knowledge. So seeing means knowledge. Seeing, not the eyes. He wants to see by the eyes. He's a monkey. That's all. He's a dog.
Prabhupāda: Spiritual life is reality they do not understand. They take it as something mental position. (long pause)
Gaṇeśa: All of these gurus are being exposed. Just like Guru Maharaji.
Paramahaṁsa: Generally people don't believe it if someone says he is God.
Prabhupāda: The first thing is: what wonderful thing he has done, that he is God? People have no common sense. We accept Kṛṣṇa as God. There are so many wonderful things done by Kṛṣṇa. Now what has he done that we accept that he is God? He has fallen in love with his secretary; any common sweeper also becomes.
Prabhupāda: No, they... Just like the ass. He does not know what is happening. Therefore he is agreeing, "All right, load with me any number of heavy weight. I shall carry." He does not know it is suffering. He has accepted the service of the man, bearing so much load, and he is giving little grass. The grass he can take from here, but he thinks that "He is maintaining me." Just see. This is ignorance. Therefore mūḍhā, this word is used. Suffering, suffering, suffering. Material nature is awarding sufferings after suffering. Still, they are not wake up. Who cares for suffering? (break) ...stand this philosophy that acceptance of this material body is suffering. They will say, "Oh, I have got this American body. I have got so much opulence. What is suffering?" He'll not believe. But real philosophy is that acceptance of this material body, whatever it may be, the demigod or dog, it is suffering. Who will understand? Even the demigods, they do not understand.
Prabhupāda: So if a human being does not become inquisitive to understand what he is, in which way his progress should me made, then he remains a dog. The dog cannot do it. And we have got the capacity. If we neglect this facility and remain like a dog, simply engaged in eating, sleeping, sex, and defense, then we remain dog. Then again we become dog. The opportunity was given to us to understand the problems of life, how to solve. If you don't take this opportunity, facility, if you simply remain like dog, then we are next life... That also they do not understand, that there is next life. Do you believe in the next life? You, a person, do you believe in a next life?
Prabhupāda: Yes. God has... Why, the son has got body then the father has got body. Your son has got body so you have got your body. Without the father having body, how the son can get body?
Jesuit: I don't understand that.
Prabhupāda: If... Suppose your son, you have got this body, so your father must have body.
Jesuit: Yes, true.
Prabhupāda: Similarly if the son of God has body, the God must have body.
Guest: Not necessarily.
Prabhupāda: Eh, yes. Do you think that solving the problem of birth, death and old age and disease is very easy task? (chuckles) You have to very, very strongly... Those who do not care, that is another thing. They are under these laws, going on. Life after life, they are changing body, again birth, again death, again in the womb of mother. They do not take it seriously, how risky life is that. They do not take it. "Oh, what is that?" Now, in Kali-yuga, the mother is killing the child. Even within the womb of mother is not safe. This is going on. So they do not take that how this way of life is risky and uncomfortable. They do not take it seriously. To enter again into the womb of mother, how difficult job and troublesome it is, they do not understand it. For want of education.
Prabhupāda: So without understanding, you were initiated? Do you think? Why you were initiated if you did not understand the seriousness? Why do you take initiation? That means cheating. You do not understand; still, you show that "I am now understanding." (break)
Hari-śauri: It seems to be very difficult if they are not very serious about anything...
Prabhupāda: No, that is missionary activities, that they do not understand, but you have to make them understand. They are not calling you, "I am suffering. Please come," but it is your business to go and let them know that "You are suffering. You take this method." That is the way of becoming very quickly recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, if you think, "They are not understanding, what is the use of going there? Let me sleep," that is not good.
Prabhupāda: This beginning and end, that is troublesome. So in the material body, it has beginning and end. Therefore it is... But they do not understand it. They think, "It is all right." I don't want to end this body but there is end. Neither I want to begin, but there is beginning. That is the trouble. But we are so dull-headed, we do not understand that anything which has beginning and end, that is troublesome. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate: (BG 8.19) "It begins and ends." That requires intelligence, that "I am eternal. Why should I accept anything which has beginning and end?" That is intelligence.
Prabhupāda: Interpretation... When you do not understand the word, then you can give interpretation. Otherwise there is no chance of interpreting.
Guest 1: If two devotees read that, the meaning is the same, but...
Prabhupāda: Two devotees. Just like you are eating this sweet. So everyone will say, "Yes, he is eating sweet." And where is the question of interpretation? Everyone knows that you are eating sweet. So if I say this gentleman is eating sweet, so who will object to this? "No, no, my interpretation is different." What is that interpretation? This is a fact.
Amogha: On an earlier walk you were saying there are three kinds of Vedic evidence. Śruti, itihāsa, and anumāna, was it? I didn't understand what anumāna was.
Prabhupāda: Hypothesis. Hypothesis. Just like yesterday I was explaining that as soon as there is a machine, there is an operator. This is hypothesis. You cannot expect machine going on without operator. Similarly, this material nature is a machine and the operator is God. This is hypothesis. Even though you do not see God we can make this suggestion. That is human reasoning, logic. If any ordinary typewriter machine... This is a machine, but that requires operator. He is pushing this button; then it is working. It is not automatically working, any machine. So how this big machine is operating without any operator? What is this nonsense? They say, "There is no God. Nature, nature." What is the nature? Nature is a machine. Just like this body. This body is machine, and the operator is the soul, and the guide is the Supersoul. As soon as the soul goes away, then the machine does not work. This is common sense. But they have no common sense; therefore they are rascals, so-called scientists and others.
Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone. Everyone who... That is the statement. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). This class of men, they do not recognize God. Who? Those who are sinful, rascals, lowest of the mankind. Such people do not recognize God. Mūḍhas. (indistinct) educated. No, that education means false education. Real education is taken away by māyā. Real education means to understand God. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). If one does not understand what is God, his education is useless. It has no meaning. What is that education? Will that education save him from death? Then what is the value of his education? Your real problem is birth, death, old age, and disease.
Prabhupāda: So there is stated, "If you simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa, then you go back to home." Janma karma ca me divyam (BG 4.9). That is stated. If you simply understand how Kṛṣṇa takes birth, how He goes away, why does He come, what is His mission, these things, if you can understand, then you are a fit candidate to go back to home. So that is explained everything in the Bhagavad-gītā. You try to understand. Then you are guaranteed. Where is the difficulty? And if you think, "Kṛṣṇa is an ordinary man like us," then finished. Then do not understand Kṛṣṇa. If you simply accept this word faithfully, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), "Everything is Kṛṣṇa," then your knowledge is perfect.
Devotee (3): Even if we don't understand Kṛṣṇa completely... Even if we don't understand Kṛṣṇa completely, if we just...
Prabhupāda: This is complete understanding, that "Everything is Kṛṣṇa." That's all. That is a fact. Everything is the energy of Kṛṣṇa. Just like in this material world everyone knows everything is the sunshine. Due to the sunshine, everything is coming. That's a fact. Science...
Guest (2) (Woman): I've seen your pictures many times in the books.
Prabhupāda: Where?
Yogi Bhajan: No, no, but people do not understand why we are like this, why they wear like this. They don't get a chance to explain. At Interreligious Council, I am a member. They never knew. They think we are the most weird people from the Mars perhaps. They don't understand a bit. And now our legal services are helping them, and all sorts of things have happened, and they are trying to understand. And when the last president left the office, he said, in his words of departure, he said, "I am only limited by the Christ. I never understood anything else. But I do feel from that limit that God is unlimited and it is in everybody." Asking a fanatic Christian to make that statement to the general assembly, it took us about two years.
Prabhupāda: Hm. You find so many fanatics. How you will unite them?
Yogi Bhajan: Gradually, one by one, one by one, they will understand. Love is the winning point. That's why they don't understand. When they find love from you, they will find love from me, they will love from people, they will love from everybody else. You know, you can take a mango stick and beat somebody, but you can take mango off it and eat. Effort has to be made somehow. And now...
Prabhupāda: Effort is being made, but the platform, the world where you are staying, that effort is very difficult to fulfill.
Prabhupāda: These people, they do not understand. What kind of civilized men they are? Less than a child, and they are proud of their science. (break)
Devotee: They're trying to catch some fish.
Paramahaṁsa: What are they doing?
Devotee: They're fishing.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Devotee: Crabs. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...fisherman. They keep this side open and this side covered. Front side covered, back side open. (end)
Prabhupāda: Then don't understand them also, you don't understand here also. Then what you will do?
Siddha-svarūpa: What it is is that we're automatically taking as authoritative what the scientists say, but we don't think is authoritative what Śrīla Prabhupāda and the Bhāgavata is saying.
Harikeśa: Well, the difficulty I was having about this mountain, this Meru. It sounds... It's very difficult to explain that to someone.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that is difficult, but everything is difficult for you. Because you want to see. You have not seen their arrangement; neither you have seen our arrangement. So but your proposition is you don't believe what you don't see. You have not seen neither of them, so you have to remain silent.
Prabhupāda: It is not mind. It is spirit soul. You also do not understand.
Harikeśa: That's a fact.
Prabhupāda: Spiritual platform is different. But the spiritual activities expressed through mind, through body, through intelligence. That's it.
Harikeśa: Yes. So that will bewilder them, this expression.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Harikeśa: This expression through the..., it will bewilder them.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...do not understand the existence of soul, then why do they say, "My head, my hand"? Why not say, "I head." What is their answer? Why do you say, "My head"?
Siddha-svarūpa: They have no answer. (break) ...very much to know about this.
Prabhupāda: That is the folly.
Siddha-svarūpa: Their desire is to enjoy the world and have religion to help them.
Siddha-svarūpa: They have no answer. (break) ...very much to know about this.
Prabhupāda: That is the folly.
Siddha-svarūpa: Their desire is to enjoy the world and have religion to help them.
Prabhupāda: It is not the question of religion. Unless one understands, then he does not understand the transmigration of the soul. (end)
Prabhupāda: That's nice. That is the beginning of spiritual education. People do not understand. I have seen many European big, big professors. They do not have any clear conception that the body and the soul, different.
Dr. John Mize: It still disturbs me, of course, how the body can influence the mind so much, the mind not being the soul apparently. But I know that when I get hit on the back of the head, my mind seems to blank out. Once in judo I recall having my carotid artery pressed and consciousness left. But it was very pleasant. It was not unpleasant at all.
Prabhupāda: To become angry is also qualification of God.
John Mize: I don't understand what you last said. To be angry is...
Bahulāśva: A quality of God. To become angry is a quality of God.
Prabhupāda: Because unless there is anger in God, how there is anger in me? But we, as we misuse our independence, we misuse our anger. And God does not misuse his independence; He does not misuse His anger. But the anger quality is there. Otherwise, how I have got anger? This is the Vedānta philosophy. Janmādyasya yataḥ: "Everything is emanating from the Supreme." So if the anger is there, it must be there.
Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. Prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54), samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. These persons who are on the mental platform, they will argue, "The animal has no soul."
John Mize: I did not understand the answer.
Bahulāśva: Prabhupāda said that those who are on the mental platform will argue that the animal has no soul. They will be hankering and lamenting...
Prabhupāda: These are the signs of material platform.
Jayatīrtha: On the spiritual platform you're able to see all living beings equally, but on the mental platform...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ. Find out this verse.
Prabhupāda: That is husband, not that accept wife today and give it up tomorrow. That is not husband. Husband must be very responsible to take care of the wife, and wife must be very chaste to serve the husband. Then family life is all right. (break) ...do not understand that "I am a living entity. I am encaged in this material body, and this material body means subjected to so many miserable condition." That they cannot understand. So my first business is how to be free from this repetition of accepting a material body. That they are not... A temporary life for fifty years or sixty years, they are busy, making very, very, gorgeous arrangement. This is asuric civilization. He does not take it very seriously that "I am encaged in this material body. My first business is how to get out of it and remain in my spiritual body." They get one type of body, and, like cats and dogs, engage, how to keep that body in sense gratification. That's all.
Prabhupāda: University without books. (laughter) Very good university. Anyway, if they are taking our books, that is good. What he will have? He is also another bogus man. But you people want to be cheated by this yoga, meditation. Therefore he has been able to get some facility. Only a selected group has come to me. Otherwise, they do not understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Kuruśreṣṭha: Those people won't listen to any philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they have been cheated by this man.
Lt. Mozee: Some of my questions might sound disrespectful. If they do it is only because I do not understand completely your religious beliefs, and I mean no disrespect whatsoever.
Prabhupāda: No, it is not my religious belief. I am just giving you general description of religious life and animal life. The animal cannot be taken to the churches and teach something about God. It is not possible. But a human being can be. So if the human being is refused this facility, then you keep them as cats and dogs. And you cannot expect any peaceful condition of life in the society of cats and dogs. So therefore it is the duty of the authority, of the government, of the elderly person, father, guardian, to teach the subordinate how to become God conscious. Otherwise, there will be trouble because there is no difference between dogs and man in every respect. The dog eats, we eat. The dog sleeps, we sleep. The dog have sex, we have sex. The dog also tries to defend itself, we also try to defend ourself. These are common factors. The only difference is the dog cannot be instructed about his relation with God, but man can be instructed.
Prabhupāda: The dog is eating on the floor and the human being is eating in a very nice table, nice dish, and therefore he is civilized. But the business is eating. The dog is trying to defend itself by barking or by teeth and jaws, and the human being is trying to defend the society by atom bomb, but the business is defense. Therefore śāstra says, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca samanyam etat paśubhir narāṇām: "This business of eating, sleeping, mating, and defending is common to the animal and to the man." The man, if he does not understand what he is, why he is suffering this material tribulations, then he remains cats and dogs. The cats and dogs, they cannot question, but human being can question. And he should take the answer from these books of knowledge. That is human life. Otherwise, so far eating, sleeping, sex and defense, that is common for the dogs and man.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...is concerned, "How Kṛṣṇa will keep good health?" And we are concerned, "Kṛṣṇa will go to hell. Please supply me food so that I might keep my health good." That is the difference between materialistic and spiritualist. The foolish man does not understand that Kṛṣṇa is supplying food to the elephant, to the ant, and why I shall go to the church for asking my food? It is already there. And our policy is, "Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, please engage me in Your service." Hare Kṛṣṇa means, "O Kṛṣṇa, O the energy of Kṛṣṇa, please engage me in Your service." We create problem. Otherwise, no problem. Kṛṣṇa has arranged everything. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Just see so many fruits for the birds. They are so sumptuously supplied, they are thrown. Pūrṇam idam (Īśo Invocation). Everything is sufficient. But these rascal blind, they do not know. They are trying to adjust. What adjustment? It is already sufficient.
Prabhupāda: I am thinking like this. You give me the answer. Simply you go on questioning. I question you, do you think this burden to the government or the public is good?
Woman reporter: I don't understand what you're saying.
Nitāi: Do you think that the burden caused when the husband goes away from the wife, that burden to the government is good?
Woman reporter: No.
Prabhupāda: So that has happened. Because the woman does not agree to be subordinate—she wants equal freedom—so the husband goes away and the woman is embarrassed with the children. And it becomes a burden to the government.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The secret—that he must be a first-class man. Otherwise he does not understand what is God, and what to speak of loving Him.
Reporter (3): What is the definition again of a first-class man?
Prabhupāda: First-class man? Where is that Bhagavad-gītā?
Brahmānanda: Bhagavad-gītā, they did not bring.
Prabhupāda: (aside:) What is the nonsense? You are all nonsense. First-class man, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that he should first of all try to..., not try, practice how to control the mind, how to control the senses. Then he must be truthful. He must be very clean, outside and inside. He must be very simple.
Prabhupāda: No, no. The highest brain substance found in man is sixty-four ounce.
Harikeśa: They did not understand that.
Nitāi: He said it clearly.
Prabhupāda: And the highest brain substance in woman found, thirty-six ounce. So that proportion is always there. It may be twenty ounce, forty ounce, but brain substance in man is more than the woman. That is a fact, always.
Harikeśa: Is that in the Vedas also?
Prabhupāda: After all, all these questions can be solved if people become Kṛṣṇa conscious. There is no such discrimination. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. These distinctions are there on the material platform. On the spiritual platform there is no such distinction.
Brahmānanda: So that is something that the reporters did not understand. This point was not discussed very fully, that actually we don't, we are not unkind to women, we are not exploiting them as others do because one who is in the spiritual life he feels he is equal to... Men, women does not matter.
Prabhupāda: So you can write that spiritually, there is no such distinction. Spiritually, Kṛṣṇa says that "Although there is distinction in the material field, low and high, but one who takes shelter of Me..." Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ, striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās. Find out this verse.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say they are cheating you in the name of independence. That you do not understand. Therefore 34 ounce. They are cheating you, and you are thinking you are independent.
Sandy Nixon: They forget the responsibility that comes with freedom.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they do not take the responsibility. They go away. They enjoy and go away. And the woman has to take the responsibility, either kill the child or maintainer, begging. Do you think begging is very good? In India, although they are poverty-stricken, still, they do not remain independent. They remain under the husband, and the husband takes all responsibility. So she has neither to kill the child nor go to beg for maintaining the child.
Prabhupāda: Yes, every intelligent man will understand this very simple thing, that so long as the body..., the soul is within the body, the body is changing. And as soon as this body... Just like you are old man, I am old man, the body is no more possible to be changed; somehow or other then I'll have to accept another body. That is called transmigration. The modern so-called scientists, philosophers, they do not understand this plain truth, and they are passing on as big scientists, big philosopher, misleading public.
Devotee (2): This is for my wife. She's getting second initiation.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Unless He is eternally there, then how the devotee will eternally, nitya-yukta upāsana, whom to worship? Nitya-yukta upāsana. Unless Puruṣottama is everlasting Puruṣottama then where is the question of worship everlasting? So the Māyāvādīs, they do not understand.
Prof. Hopkins: Well, would you... Do you equate then the impersonalists and the Māyāvādīs? Are they the same?
Prabhupāda: Almost the same.
Prof. Hopkins: At some point I guess they would have to be almost.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: Contact? It is already in contact. You are in the material body. It is already in contact.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: But I don't understand how that contact is working.
Prabhupāda: Contact is working under the direction of God. The individual soul desires, and God arranges to fulfill his desire with the help of prakṛti.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: So when I want to move my hand, when I want to move this hand and so I will to move my hand, actually there has to be God involved in that action. Otherwise the hand won't move.
Prabhupāda: Paralyzed.
Citsukhānanda: When we were first coming to this movement, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we opened Bhagavad-gītā. Myself, I read. I said, "I don't understand this." So I began to clean the floor, wash the dishes, cut the vegetables...
Prabhupāda: Yes, very good.
Citsukhānanda: And then by your...
Prabhupāda: Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau (Brs. 1.2.234). By service only. You can understand God simply by service. There is no other way. And the faith begins from the tongue. You see? Therefore it is advised that you chant and take prasāda. Then faith will come. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. It begins... The faith begins from the tongue. "Why?" People will be surprised. "Faith must begin from the mind, from the eyes, and why it is said tongue?" They do not know. That is also faith, that "Simply engaging tongue in the service of the Lord, I shall understand." So this is also blind faith. But actually it is happening. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take{īūl prasādam. That's all.
Mr. Surface: I didn't understand the last part.
Prabhupāda: Family affection.
Brahmānanda: Family affection is the impetus for economic...
Prabhupāda: Development.
Mr. Surface: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So he is dependent on the family affection. Then economic impetus go on. And I think he has given another proposition that if man can easily live, then he will not work. That is the nature of man. Therefore a rich man's son, he does not work. Because he has father's money, he can spend. In America the boys are rich man's son, and therefore so many boys are not working. They have got easy income, and they are not working. And because there is no proper work, they are becoming hippies.
Prabhupāda: That... They do not see Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Just like yesterday we purchased one house, and according to Indian exchange, twenty-four lakhs. So I had no money, but I have purchased. That is... They do not understand what is Kṛṣṇa's mercy.
Ādi-keśava: In Boston when we bought the big temple there, they said... They asked us, "We saw you dancing and chanting in the street right in front of there the other day, and now we see you going into a house on the richest block in the whole city."
Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not understand.
Akṣayānanda: But yet their children are eating eggs, giving up. (break)
Brahmānanda: ...say that they are doing the same thing that we are doing, then that should be a reason to help us, not to not help us. If we're doing the same thing, therefore if you are helping one, then you must help the other also.
Akṣayānanda: Yes. That's what I tell them. They say, "We already helped the other, but you came too late, so therefore we can't help you."
Prabhupāda: "So you are so poor?"—(aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa—"that you cannot help the second man? Then how you are charitable? You must be open to give charity to everyone." No use talking.
Prabhupāda: They make analysis—"This is good; this is bad." The whole thing is bad; they do not understand. Dvaite bhadrābhadra sakale samana, ei bhala ei manda saba manodharma. A mental concoction we analyze—"This is good." And because the whole population is such rascal, therefore we see whole world they are creating government, they are making this advancement, taking... Everything is spoiled. That they do not understand, that "We have tried so far, scientifically and this way and that way. Why there are so many things disturbing and miserable?" The whole policy is to give you trouble. That is the material nature. You must be always in trouble.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) This is going on. They do not understand that this world is meant for suffering. We have discussed little in that topic with Śyāmasundara. Just like they invented the communistic idea. Does it mean the communists are not suffering? They are suffering more. They have no liberty. They have lost their liberty, the whole people. They are so much pressed by the government that there is no liberty at all. The younger generation, they cannot go out, so much suffering. I may live even in a big house, but if you say, "You cannot go out. Then you'll be punished," that idea will be suffering—"Oh, I cannot go out."
Prabhupāda: If it is your līlā, then you are suffering. What is this nonsense of "my līlā." Suffering?
Brahmānanda: The suffering is only for those who haven't..., who don't understand that they are supreme.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Brahmānanda: Those who don't understand, they are the ones who suffer, but I don't suffer.
Prabhupāda: So it is better to remain in that ignorance. Just like the hogs and dogs, they do not understand that this is suffering. But we can understand that this is suffering.
Brahmānanda: Yes. To be a dog, that's all right because the dog doesn't suffer. He is enjoying.
Prabhupāda: No, no, why you are doing austerity? Remain as dog and cat. Therefore you are mūḍha. You do not know what is suffering, what is enjoyment. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mam ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Therefore one who is intelligent, jñāni, bahūnām jan... After suffering in this way and talking all nonsense, when he comes to the real knowledge, then he surrenders.
Vāsughoṣa: But the general mass, I mean, of Americans, they don't understand.
Prabhupāda: These are faulty, fault-finding. It is no good. Everyone. Kṛṣṇa did not say for Indian or American. For everyone. But at the present moment Indians are misled that they have been, I mean to say, induced to think that if they become like American or Western people they will be happy. That is misleading.
Vāsughoṣa: I was telling them that in America the big thing is they want to raise the standard of living, but then those people who had raised the standard of living, they are also killing themselves. But they don't want to listen. Actually in Nepal I was reading every day in the paper the king was saying that "Our goal is economic development. That is the top priority. Number-one priority is economic development."
Prabhupāda: Yes. He is the controller of māyā. That they do not understand.
Dr. Patel: They don't understand what is divya-vigraha.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They understand slightly sac-cid-ānanda, but they cannot think of that sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. Śāstra says īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). That they cannot understand, being less intelligent. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu has explained, they cannot understand this. Māyāvādī haya kṛṣṇa aparādhī.
Dr. Patel: They are aparādhīs of Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: But he did not understand economics, sir. What is money after all? Money is nothing but the labor transformed into materials. We had the huge labor of sixty crores of people. He was capable of transforming that labor into material unfortunately and...
Prabhupāda: Anyway, they changed the Gandhi's program.
Dr. Patel: That is what Gandhi understood, but he did not.
Prabhupāda: How he can understand? He wanted to utilize to become prime minister.
Dr. Patel: That is right, sir. That has been explained from time immemorial, but the world does not understand.
Prabhupāda: No, no, why not? These people are understanding. These all Kṛṣṇa conscious students, they are understanding. Otherwise...
Dr. Patel: These type of students were eternally there with all the religious teaching, past and present. But unfortunately...
Prabhupāda: So those who were there, they understood. They...
Dr. Patel: Unfortunate for the world it is not going to do that.
Prabhupāda: No, there was no preaching. That's it. Now the preaching is going on. They are understanding. Nobody preached this. If you... Just like a big building. If the foundation is wrong, then it will not stay.
Prabhupāda: Satyānanda-cid-ātmani. Yogis, bhakti-yogis, they also want ānanda, but not this false ānanda, satyānanda-cid-ātmāni, iti... Therefore they call Rāma. Rāma means ramaṇa, enjoyment. Iti rāma-padenāsau paraṁ brahmābhidhiyate (CC Madhya 9.29). They do not know what is satyānanda. They do not understand, as soon as we accept this material body, it is misery, simply misery. The body is constructed within the womb of the mother in a miserable condition. These rascals, they do not understand. In a packed-up way, head down, leg up. And it is enjoyment. The body is created in this troublesome, from miserable condition; still, they say, "enjoyment." This is foolishness. This is called illusion.
Prabhupāda: Good idea. It is very good idea.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The idea was in Hindi. It was in Hindi. We don't understand.
Prabhupāda: In the village... I shall speak in Hindi?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In English so we can understand.
Prabhupāda: I am speaking in... So in the village, if these people go, they cannot do anything because they cannot speak in Hindi.
Guest (1): No, we should be there to organize. We will be there to organize.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you organize, then that will be nice.
Prabhupāda: No. That means it is simply talking. It has no realization. Unless you understand that you are not this body—you are spirit soul—there is no question of inward. That we have to study first of all, whether I am this body, or I am something within this body. That is inward. But that they do not understand. There is no education in the school, college or university. Everyone is thinking "I am this body." You see? Just like in this country, everywhere: "We are South African. They are Indian. They are this. They are this. They are this." So whole bodily concept, the whole world... "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am German." So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means it starts when one is above the bodily conception of life. Then the starting begins.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Vedas there are. Yes. But what is the purpose of Veda? The purpose of Veda is to understand God. If you do not understand God... Just like the Ārya-samājīs. They are concerned with Vedas, they say. But they do not know what is God. They say, "I am God." This is their knowledge. If he is God, who is going to worship him? Nobody comes to kick on his face, and still, he says, "I am God." This is going on. How you become God? Who worships you? But still, he will say, "I am God." You see. Such foolishness is going on. Ārya. Ārya means advanced, and this is their advancement. Ārya means advanced, and this is their advancement that they think, "I am God." Just see. Everyone can think like that. Then what is the use of advancement?
Prahupada: No..., where is the man? All animals. Man will think. One with knowledge, he will think. And what the animal will think? Anyone who is not a devotee, he is animal. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). The big animal is being worshiped by a small animal. That's all. A lion in the forest is worshiped by the small animals. So does it mean the lion is not animal? He is also animal. So similarly, all these leaders, these scientists, these philosophers, they are applauded by the small animals, but they are also animals, big animal, that's all. The test is whether he understands the spirit soul different from the body. If he does not understand he is animal, that's all. Maybe big animal, that is a different thing. Big or small, animal is animal.
Prabhupāda: These things are recommended, not that a brāhmaṇa should become very busy whole day and night for getting food. So śāstra says, "There is no use of becoming busy for your food. Food is there already." Food is already there. He'll get his food. That is arrangement by God. But they are busy fool. They do not understand the God's arrangement. Only for food they are busy whole day and night like cats and dogs. Now this land is there. You can... Everyone can grow food if he works for two months. Everyone can grow his whole year's foodstuff. There is so much land. But no, they'll not grow food. They will grow hammer, manufacturing it. You see? Tire tube, then atom bomb, then this and that. They are busy. They are busy fool. Actually they are fools, and they are very busy.
Prabhupāda: No. This is the term used, "lazy," but real term is dhīra. The Sanskrit word is dhīra. And everything... Just like high-court judge, he is dhīra. He is... Before giving judgment, he thinks three days, silently. That is your... That is not laziness. His brain is working how to give nice judgment. That is required. But because we do not understand what is dhīra, we think that "This man is sitting idly and drawing four thousand rupees." Because we know, "Unless one is active like dog, running there, running there, he is not a busy man." And he cannot appreciate the work of the author, the work of the high-court judge. They think they are lazy. Therefore he's using the lazy, but lazy and intelligent. Otherwise he is not lazy; he is dhīra. The word is dhīra.
Prabhupāda: No, no, if moving is not there, then the dead child is also not moving. Why he is not moving again?
Harikeśa: I don't understand.
Prabhupāda: A dead child comes; it is not moving. But does it come to movement again?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: Then?
Harikeśa: Oh.
Prabhupāda: He is another rascal. He takes so much time to answer.
Prabhupāda: Not faith, it is practical. You are so foolish, you do not understand. Unless you are qualified, you cannot see anything. So you have to qualify. It is not faith. Disqualified. You are disqualified.
Devotee (1): Like sometimes you make the example you can't see the president unless you are qualified to see the president.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Devotee (1): Likewise, you can't see God unless you are qualified.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is wanted. It is not faith; it is fact. Unless you are fit to see something, you cannot see.
Dr. Patel: Saheb, Thakur Saheb, what he says is right. No, but because we are, we are apratijñāna so we don't understand it quickly. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...Kali-yuga, always chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma..., and everything will be clear. Last night Brahmānanda said... (break) ...that "We are sticking to you because we know we have got something from you." Otherwise they are all rich man's sons. They are aristocratic family and industry. Why? I am not bribing them. Now this Mr. Ford has come to me. I have not bribed. He is not to be bribed. (break)
Prabhupāda: Full attention. And attention means with good intelligence, (dog barking) not foolishly. (Hindi) That "You are not body. Why you are fighting?" Will they hear? (Hindi) That "My dear dog, you are not this body. Why you are fighting?" He will never understand. Similarly, if a man does not understand, he is no better than the dog.
Dr. Patel: śuni caiva śva-pākeṣu paṇḍitaḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18).
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore we like everyone. We do not reject anyone. Dog cannot understand the philosophy. Therefore we call him and give some prasādam. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: They are put into difficulty.
Dr. Patel: They are following Hitler's method of superiority of... They don't understand that Indians are as superior as they are, rather more, ethically.
Prabhupāda: Everyone thinks that he is superior than everyone.
Dr. Patel: No, no. The Aryan race is...
Prabhupāda: That is the disease, material disease. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has... Tṛṇād api sunīcena: "You just become..."
Prabhupāda: Huh? The simple thing explained in the Bhagavad-gītā... Simple thing explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, asmin dehe dehinām: "Within this body there is the proprietor." So they do not understand it. Huh?
Indian man (3): That comes after, after...
Indian man (4): Guru, you should go? Then only perfect knowledge he will get.
Yaśomatīnandana: Guru is there. Why don't they come?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Guru is there, but they won't come. They won't come.
Prabhupāda: Then, in Vṛndāvana, they were thinking of the gopīs' līlā. So after giving up all these things, again they were thinking of material things? Gopī-bhāvāmṛtābdhi-lahari-kallola-magnau. So they were thinking of gopīs' pastimes with Kṛṣṇa. So after giving up everything material, again material? Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, ramyād kaścid upāsanā vraja-vadhubhir yā kalpitā. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, after so much renunciation, so much vairāgya and strict following the sannyāsa rule, again He is recommending gopī? This is foolishness. Gopīs' līlā with Kṛṣṇa is completely spiritual. They do not understand. They think it is material. Therefore it is better not to go there. First of all become experienced in spiritual life; then try to understand gopīs' līlā.
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Unless one understands Kṛṣṇa... Vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). Veda means knowledge. So all kinds of knowledge, they are aiming at the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So if one does not understand what is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then māyayāpahṛta-jñānā—he has no knowledge. Knowledge means ultimately he must know what is God. That is knowledge. Ye kṛṣṇa tattva vetta sei guru haya. Anyone who knows Kṛṣṇa, he becomes guru. Otherwise not. The first test is you may be scientist, philosopher, educationist, whatever you may be, but ask him, "Do you know Kṛṣṇa?" If he says, "No," then he is a fool. That's all. This is the test. (chuckles) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So Ambarisa Mahārāja, do you agree?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: They are so silly, they don't understand, because they include their own self there. They think that Kṛṣṇa was just like them, and then they certify(?) themselves with gopīs, what they would do with gopīs.
Prabhupāda: Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. Param (Hindi) Otherwise it is...
Dr. Patel: It is said that gopīs were not foolish. They were very intelligent girls, extremely, because they chose what was to be chosen.
Prabhupāda: (break) Eternal companion of Kṛṣṇa. ananda-cinmaya-rasa pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāva. The gopīs are expansion of Kṛṣṇa's ananda-cinmāyā-rasa pleasure potency.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no, I cannot hear this.
Dr. Patel: You see, we don't understand the working of those people in Africa, those junglis. But they do some...
Prabhupāda: But you are not a junglis; you are a medical man, sir.
Dr. Patel: Please listen to me. I beseech you to hear me for a minute. They do some things which we cannot explain, and we do by their own ways.
Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom.
Dr. Patel: The scientists know it.
Prabhupāda: As soon as you do in your own way, that is rascaldom.
Dr. Patel: The Easterns... That does not mean... The Eastern philosophy is only with the jāgrati stage. But the jīva has got three stages, and the fourth stage, the turīya stage, is the real stage that we understand. They don't have idea of it, unfortunately. So that philosophy is not the real philosophy of life. Life as a whole should have its own philosophy. They don't understand that there is anything beyond the jāgrati stage. But then there is a svapna stage, there is a sleep stage and the turīya stage. In that if I am wrong you may correct me, sir.
Prabhupāda: You cannot be corrected.
Dr. Patel: I cannot be wrong, say that.
Prabhupāda: No, I cannot correct you.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Hare Kṛṣṇa. No, I mean to say, you are a professional man, you charge, but why do you come here free unless you have in mind?
Dr. Patel: I don't understand why I am attracted to you specially. I don't understand. I very much thinking, I have been thinking about it. There must be some pūrva-janma. We may be relatives. I don't know. No sādhu has been able to attract me as much as you have. Not even temples have attracted me, to tell the truth.
Yaśomatīnandana: There is no sādhu except Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Dr. Karttika Chandra Bose, he was a very big man. I was, under him, manager of Bose's laboratory. So from the very beginning my father was paying him two rupees fees. But when he became very big, still my father was paying two rupees. He was friend. So he refused to take. "No, no, no, you must be paid something." So he used to accept that two rupees.
Prabhupāda: Then what is the academy? Nonsense. They are spending so much money in this kala-kendra, academy, this, that. And no place for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just see. Such a cultural book of knowledge. There is no such institution, Gītā instruction, institute. No. This kala bhavan, this kendra bhavan this... They have got so many dance bhavan, and when Kṛṣṇa dances with the gopīs, "Ah, that is bad!" The rascals, they do not understand where you have got this tendency for dancing. Because it is there in Kṛṣṇa. That they do not understand. Kṛṣṇa dancing is bad, and my dancing is very good. They will put so many questions, "Why Kṛṣṇa dance with others' wives."
Prabhupāda: Hm. But they do not know; na te vidu svartha-gati hi viṣṇum; these rascals they do not know what is the actual aim of life. They are, in the groups of ordinary men, they are doing some business opened this transcendental TM shop, that's all. Cheating. Cheating. All of them are are going on, cheating. Nobody knows the real interest is to go back to home, back to Godhead. Nobody knows. Ask any so-called sādhu, yogi, swami—they do not know. They read Bhagavad-gītā but they do not understand. (sic:) Yad jñātv na nivartante tad dhāma parama mama, so what do they understand, these... tyaktv deha punar janma naiti mam eti so'rjuna. They do not believe all these things, therefore they say.. Swami Chinmayananda says that whatever is necessary we shall accept; other ślokas we shall reject.
Prabhupāda: Always guṇatīta. They do not understand traiguṇya-viṣayā vedā nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna. Everyone is contaminated by the...
Dr. Patel: All the lower, all this knowledge is no doubt traigunya. Superior knowledge. But spiritual knowledge is beyond the three guṇas.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). We have to transcend all these guṇas, and that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now they are realizing even in Western countries...
Dr. Patel: But they will realize (Hindi). They will learn it by...
Prabhupāda: Saṁsārīs, (indistinct) for the saṁsārīs. When Kṛṣṇa says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14), this is for saṁsārīs. Saintly person doesn't require anna. It is meant for the saṁsārī. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Catur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam: (BG 4.13) This division of society is meant for the saṁsārī, to control division of labor. Everything is for the saṁsārī. It is not meant for the paramahaṁsa. Paramahaṁsa-saṁhitā is Bhāgavata. This is ABC. These people, they do not understand even the ABC. This is the difficulty. They cannot learn even the ABCD of spiritual knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Tejo vāri-mṛdāṁ vinimayo yatra tri-sargo'mṛṣā dhāmnā svena sadā nirasta-kuhakaṁ satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi (SB 1.1.1). Vyāsadeva offers his respect to the real truth, satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi, where there is no mirage, there is no false world; real world. And Kṛṣṇa gives the same information: yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). "That is My real abode, where if you go you don't come back. And so long you are in this material world, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19), you accept one body, suffer or enjoy, there is no enjoyment, suffering, and again accept another body; tathā dehāntara praptir." This is going on. Therefore they do not understand when you speak of the other world. But if you speak of this world, that "I'll make you happy in this world," thousands and millions will follow you. And as soon as you say that "I shall make you happy in the next world," "These are all nonsense, crazy fellow!"
Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. You were a child; that body is finished. So you have got a different body. But this simple truth they do not understand; that is their folly. If the body is finished, then why you were a child, you have become a young man? Body is finished, but not everything is finished, everything is there. Only the body is finished. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This is explained. So when the body is finished, that does not mean that you are finished. You have to accept another body. That is real truth, and it is spoken by Kṛṣṇa, not any so-called scientist. The Supreme Person says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. What do they say about this statement of Kṛṣṇa, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre, that when your body is finished you are not finished?
Prabhupāda: You do not understand that you are ātmā. Aham brahmasmi. That you do not understand. You think "I am body." That is nonsense.
Indian man: That point is not clear.
Prabhupāda: Why not clear? That means your intelligence is not clear.
Indian man: (spluttering) ...naturally, but listen what I say.
Prabhupāda: So, the ātmā, that is stated in the Bhāgavata, antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ (BG 2.18). Nityasyoktāḥ, nityasyoktāḥ, śarīriṇaḥ. Śarīriṇaḥ means the soul who possesses this body, he is nitya. So, you have to enjoy or suffer the reaction of your activities. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). You have got a type of body on account of your activities.
Prabhupāda: If, in the beginning, or on the basic principles, he remains a rascal, then there is no knowledge. If he does not understand that there is soul within this body, then he remains animal. What is the value of animal's speculation? Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So we shall treat them as animals. So what, what we have got to learn from the animals? They're not interested. Now let.... You can accuse: "Why you should say animals?" I may say, "You are animals." That's all right. Just come to discussion, whether you are animal or I am animal.
| Page Title: | Do not understand (Conversations 1975) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 29 of Nov, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=119, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 119 |