Do not accept (Conversations 1975)

Expressions researched:
"do not accept" |"don't accept"

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Professor: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: But that is the tendency of modern... They do not accept that their senses are imperfect. They want to see something, distant place, with microscope... What is called? Telescope. Telescope. But the telescope is manufactured by you. It is imperfect.

Professor: But I would say that even in India, where ancient tradition... They would propose how to arrange our telescopes to be able to see more correctly.

Prabhupāda: You have to see... That... Vedic injunction says, śāstra-cakśuṣā. Śāstra-cakśuṣā: "Your eyes should be the śāstra." There is another crude example. Just like who is your father? How do you understand? Through the vibration of the mother. The mother says, "He is your father." You accept it. Otherwise there is no experiment. So things which are beyond your perception, beyond your defective senses, that should not be speculated. Na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Acintyā khalv ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. These are the injunction. What is beyond your perception, beyond your speculation, don't waste your time so-called argument and logic. What is argument? Mother says, "He is your father." Where is the argument? You cannot apply any argument.

Professor: No, I said old tradition in India has been going on into argument itself.

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Śaṅkara has interpreted. Śaṅkara has interpreted by his limited knowledge. So that is not perfect knowledge. Therefore we don't accept Śaṅkara's philosophy.

Professor: But I said if he belongs to the same tradition, and you belong to the other...

Prabhupāda: That tradition is nothing. Tradition is just temporary. You make your tradition; he makes your tradition. That is another thing. But the, fact is fact. That is not dependent on tradition. Tradition we can make, tradition. "We believe." Just like somebody says, "We believe." What is the use of such saying, "We believe"? You may believe something which is not fact.

Professor: Yes, but we could say that since the Upaniṣads and later, all things have been sustaining the thing which you have just said a moment ago, that there exists an identity between ātman and Brahmān.

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Guest (Lady) (Hṛdayānanda): How can we relieve ourselves of material pain and live in spiritual pleasure?

Prabhupāda: Yes, as soon as you do not accept this material body, you have no connection with material pains and pleasure. (aside:) Get this light down.

Guest (Hṛdayānanda): He has understood from Bhagavad-gītā that Kṛṣṇa says that "As you approach Me, I present Myself." So in that sense can this movement be compared to also the consciousness of Christ, Christ consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is no difference between consciousness of Christ or Kṛṣṇa provided we follows them. Christ is speaking as son of Godhead, and Kṛṣṇa is speaking as God, so there is no difference. The truth—the father speaks or the son speaks—the truth is the same.

Guest (Hṛdayānanda): He understands that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the highest state of the mind. Now he requests that you explain to the people how one can achieve Kṛṣṇa consciousness living in one's own home with one's... In other words for those who are outside the temple, they have their jobs and they live in their houses, how can they achieve Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: It is very easy. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (laughter)

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: The standard is given by... That is standard, as that Vedic language, Vedic instruction. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave the standard, harer nāma: (CC Adi 17.21) "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Immediately successful. That is standard. Otherwise how you will find standard? Therefore it is said, guru-mukha-pad... That is standard. What you hear from a bona fide guru, that is standard. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Anyone who will do this standard, he will become devotee. And as soon as he become devotee, he is fit for going back to home, back to Godhead. Yes, this is standard. What Kṛṣṇa says? Find out this verse. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Whatever Kṛṣṇa says, that is standard. All nonsense. Ār nā koriho mane āśā. Don't accept anything. This is standard. What is that?

Paramahaṁsa:

man-manā bhava mad-bhakto

mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru

mām evaiśyasi satyaṁ te

pratijāne priyo 'si me

(BG 18.65)

"Always think of Me and become My devotee. Worship Me and offer..." (end)

Morning Walk -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because, they say, without knowing, it's not advancement of knowledge.

Prabhupāda: But you have not known it. You have not known it. You cannot claim that you are advanced. You are still foolish. Why you are claiming advancement? You have not known it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, but they are saying that "In due course of time we are going to know it."

Prabhupāda: Ah, that is another foolishness. That we do not accept. You have not known it till now. You are foolish still. That you have to admit. "In future you will be a rich man, and therefore you give me a post-dated check"—who will accept it? The foolish person will accept it, (laughter) that "I am giving you the check, ten million dollars. You can take it after three million years (laughter) when I shall become rich." It is a proposal like that. No intelligent person will accept that check.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they say that "About two hundred years ago, yes, we were foolish, about two hundred years ago."

Prabhupāda: You are still... Still you are foolish. (laughter) Why are you claiming intelligent? Admit it, that still you are foolish. "We have known the molecules." So what is the benefit of knowing?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because that is a part of our man's inquiry, inquiry to know something. They don't want to be in darkness.

Prabhupāda: The enquiry may be, but whether that enquiry is properly answered, that is the thing. Enquiry there is always. But where is the answer of the enquiry?

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: No, if you accept Kṛṣṇa as the teacher, authority, just like Arjuna accepted. Arjuna said, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: (BG 2.7) "Now I accept You as my teacher." Śiṣya. Śiṣya means disciple. Śiṣyas te aham: "I am Your now disciple. Don't accept me as Your friend." Friend to friend talk, it is not very serious. So when one is accepted as the master, then you have to accept his statement. There is no question of argument. That is the relationship between guru and disciple. Therefore the process is: before accepting a person as guru, one must study his position. And guru also, before accepting a disciple, must study his position. In this way the relationship between guru and disciple is established. Now, Arjuna is a friend of Kṛṣṇa, so he has studied Kṛṣṇa, and therefore he submits, Arjuna, "Kṛṣṇa, although we are friends, now I accept You as my spiritual master." Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: (BG 2.7) "I am now surrendered." "Surrendered" means "As I accept you as my teacher, I'll not argue." So first of all this is required, that before accepting somebody as teacher one must be convinced that "The person whom I am going to accept, my teacher, is perfect." Then the knowledge will be nice. If we approach a perfect person and submissively hear from him, then the knowledge is perfect. So Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the supreme authority, as Arjuna quoted. What is that?

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: No, there no attention. You have failed. That is the proof that you had no attention.

Indian man: Yes, but then God should help us to keep us...

Prabhupāda: God is always helping, but if you do not accept it... God says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "You give up all other engagement and take My shelter," but you are not doing that. That is your fault. So it cannot be failure unless you are negligent. You have no utsāhaḥ. This is the process. Utsāhaḥ dhairyaḥ niścayaḥ tat-tat-karma-pravartanaḥ, sato vṛtteḥ. How these boys are advancing? They have got enthusiasm: "Yes, we must make progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." They have given up everything. They are young men. They have got... Every young man has to satisfy senses in so many ways. But no. They are so enthusiastic, but... For understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness they have given up everything. They are Europeans, Americans. They have got so many allurement. But I have told them that "You must give up illicit sex," they have given up; "You must give up meat-eating," they have given up; "You must give up intoxication up to drinking tea and cigarette," and they have given up, these young men. So they are utsāhaḥ. There is enthusiasm: "Yes, we must do it." That is wanted, not theoretically on the armchair of devotional service. That will not be successful. Armchair theory will not help you. You must be practical and there must be enthusiasm. Then it will be successful. You are sitting in the same position and you are thinking that you are making progress. That will fail. You have to come out with enthusiasm. Then it will be successful. That is required. Ciraṁ vicinvan.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: No, no, this is not very good theory. You do not know anything about Him, and you surrender to Him. What is this?

Indian man: We may have our own idea.

Prabhupāda: No, we don't accept that. If we surrender, we must know Him first of all, what He is. Then we surrender. We are not blind. Suppose you tell me that "You surrender unto me." Shall I do that? Why shall I do it?

Indian man: But...

Prabhupāda: No "but." First of all answer this. If I do not know anything about you and you demand from me, "You surrender," shall I do it?

Indian man: I will be knowing what He has preached, if I... That preaching itself is enough and we need not look anything about Him. We can surrender.

Prabhupāda: That He preaches...

Indian man: That preaching is enough.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Indian man: We need not know what He is.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. You accept His preaching?

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: They accept God, that's all. But God is here explained. They cannot give an explicit idea of God. But here is God speaking personally. They have got "There is God," "God is great." That's nice. But who is that God, how He is great, that they have to learn further. Simply a vague idea, that "God is great..." One should know how He is great and who is that great. That is perfection. So that is explained here. They accept God. That is... They are also our brother because they accept God. They are not atheist. Atheists, they don't accept God. "There is no God"—that is atheist. But here they are theist. They accept God. They want to please God. They go to the church, go to the mosque, offer prayer. Prayer is also bhakti, devotional service. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ... (SB 7.5.23). Śravanaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇam..., arcanaṁ vandanam. Vandanam. The Christian way or the Muslim way, to offer... The Muslim offer obeisances and offer prayer. So that is also bhakti. The Christian also do that, so that is also bhakti. And they accept God; we accept God. So there is no difference. But the only point is who is that God.

Guest: They accept as supreme power.

Prabhupāda: No, supreme power must be that... Behind the power there must be powerful.

Guest: They say powerful but what about...

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then our request is that you chant the name of God. So if Allah is the name of God, you chant Allah, don't chant Kṛṣṇa. We say that.

Lady: The name of God is not something could be spoken to (indistinct), it is unspoken.

Prabhupāda: No, we don't accept that. Name means it can be spoken. (guests all speak at once) Not commentary, name means that... When I call you by your name, it is spoken. It is spoken. I know your name... If I say I cannot speak it. (laughter) This is...

Guest: ...is for me to designate me because it is...

Prabhupāda: No, you have said that God's name is Allah, that is accepted. Very good. And we request you...

Guest: ...means of communication.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest: Just, not that, no, a word Allah is not to God, it is a means of communication.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, you have accepted the name of God as Allah, is it not?

Atreya Ṛṣi: But he's saying that their name is material, it's different...

Prabhupāda: No, no, then you have no idea of God. God is not material. God is not material.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: But the name must be chanted that is our program. It may be Turkish name, it may be Arabic name, it may be Sanskrit name. Whatever he knows let him chant. That is our program.

Atreya Ṛṣi: But the concept of name of God is separate than designation, which you are talking about. Man-made designation. And this concept, if you don't accept this concept, how do you accept the concept of chanting in Islam. These are the points. Bhagavad-gītā also. There are so many concepts in there, but we want to interpret them all, we don't want to accept them. We want to accept our mind. Prabhupāda, what he has been saying all evening is: "Let's accept Bhagavad-gītā as authority. Let's accept Koran as authority. Let's accept an authority." Because we want to go by our senses. We want to go around modern...

Guest: Yes, (indistinct) as authorities.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Atreya Ṛṣi: But let us accept it. Let us accept it. It's not they... I accept them and they are still the victim of my interpretation. If we accept them, what is this? That let's not interpret that God's name is just a designation just like my name. It's just a word.

Guest: Name cannot be perfect(?). Name of name cannot be perfect.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Well, then we are talking about the difference...

Conversation with Devotees -- March 31, 1975, Mayapur:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, it's very clear that if one does not accept Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then actually he cannot worship Kṛṣṇa properly.

Prabhupāda: That's a fact.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now just to carry on with Acyutānanda Mahārāja's point, it would seem then that the Rāmānujis and the Madhvites, they don't accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So how can they possibly...

Prabhupāda: Therefore they cannot understand the higher rasas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh.

Prabhupāda: Unnata-ujjvala-rasam, they cannot understand.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they can understand śānta-rasa.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dāsya-rasa.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But not sākhya.

Conversation with Devotees -- March 31, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But not sākhya.

Prabhupāda: Not more than that. They cannot meditate. There is no paternal rasa or madhurya-rasa in their community.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And the Vallabhites, they also... Actually they don't accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu. They say Vallabhācārya is their Mahāprabhu. And they worship in...

Prabhupāda: Vallabhācārya was rejected by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I know that. So actually...

Prabhupāda: He was simply proud of his education. He had no realization.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You explained that...

Acyutānanda: Do they worship in vātsalya-rasa or just show?

Prabhupāda: Show, formality.

Acyutānanda: It's not genuine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not genuine.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The people won't accept any austerity.

Prabhupāda: Then you must suffer from the disease. If you have got disease, you must undergo the... What is this austerity? Where is the austerity?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: If they don't accept the medicine, then they can't be cured.

Prabhupāda: Then they must suffer. A man, diseased, and he doesn't want to take medicine, then where is the...? He must suffer. Where is the cure?

Pañcadraviḍa: They say we're the ones who are diseased.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Pañcadraviḍa: They say we are the ones who are diseased. They say, every one of us, we are diseased, not them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The deaf man thinks all others deaf. (Laughter) That means they are not even human beings. Animals. They do not come to reason, that "Whether we are diseased, or you are diseased. Sit down. Talk." That also, they are not ready. Then? What we can do with animals?

Pañcadraviḍa: They say we are old-fashioned. They don't want to bother with us anymore.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Then why do you bother with the problems? Why do you bother with the problems of society? You bother, but you cannot make a solution. All over the world, the newspaper is full, simply throbbing.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Pañcadraviḍa: What if they say, "We agree there's one God, but we do not agree that His name is Kṛṣṇa" or "We do not agree..."

Prabhupāda: Then you suggest what is His name. My next challenge will be... You suggest.

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, they...

Ravīndra-svarūpa: In the Bible they give twelve names for God.

Prabhupāda: No, let me finish this. If you do not accept Kṛṣṇa is the name of God,... I have explained what is the idea of Kṛṣṇa. The Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. The example is given: Just like gold. Gold is attractive to everyone—to the educated, the uneducated, to the black, to the white, man, woman, everyone. One who knows God, er, one who knows gold-gold is attractive. Similarly, God is all-attractive. There cannot be that "It is black gold," "It is white gold," "It is Christian gold," "It is Hindu gold." No. Gold is gold. So we present Kṛṣṇa that "Here is God, all-attractive." Now you say, "No, He's not God." Then you present your God.

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, I know just the...

Prabhupāda: You cannot say, reject. They cannot reject Kṛṣṇa unless you present an alternative.

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, here's the argument. Part of the thing I remember in the Judeo tradition, Judeo-Christian tradition, in the... Whenever we used to go to service and all that, they used to have in the prayer books... They would never write out the name of God because they say...

Prabhupāda: Oh, that means you do not know.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: We are all Christians.

Acyutānanda: Here we are.

Pañcadraviḍa: We already are Christians.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: But they are seeing us... They don't accept that, though. If somebody was calling themselves Christians...

Prabhupāda: That... It is not possible that everyone will accept you. That is not possible.

Pañcadraviḍa: They... The Christians on the street, they don't accept because they say, "You have not accepted Christ." I say, "I am following all Christ's teachings." They say, "Well, you haven't been baptized. If you're following all the principles, why not be baptized?"

Ravīndra-svarūpa: I was baptized.

Prajāpati: But this is a... This group of Christians you meet on the street that are fundamentalists following the Bible are very different group from the big Harvard scholars. The theologians that we're concerned with are those that are actually influencing millions of people by their rascaldom.

Acyutānanda: Do they come up with any big decisions every year and change people's...?

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prajāpati: I have tried to attack them by just taking a specific article, and I am lost immediately myself. It's all mish-mosh. There's nothing there to fight. It's like a... But the use is that we must...

Acyutānanda: There must be something to attract them. So they're giving arguments for Christians who are, you know... intellectual.

Pañcadraviḍa: The thing is... The thing that makes it hard to understand what the use is—because we say, then, in all these... We try to define and they can't be defined. And then you say that they don't take us seriously. They don't accept what we're saying. They don't accept these teachings. They would dismiss us in a minute. What is the use?

Acyutānanda: They must say something concrete.

Prajāpati: Well, the most concrete they get is their dissatisfaction with the present status quo. So in that we're in agreement with them. "Yes, we're dissatisfied with the status quo also, but we are offering alternatives that are..."

Acyutānanda: They're dissatisfied with the people who are sinful.

Paramahaṁsa: Where is their method for changing the status quo?

Acyutānanda: They're not dissatisfied...

Prabhupāda: Method is there, the Ten Commandments, but they won't follow.

Prajāpati: Well, instead of being dissatisfied with the fact that people are sinful...

Prabhupāda: Method is already there in the Bible.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Then here, today, this morning, you'll see it is lying there. Tomorrow you'll come. You'll see it is lying there. Where it is moving? What does it mean by moving?

Rāmeśvara: Well, they say that when atoms...

Prabhupāda: They say! You say what it is. Don't say "They say." You use your intelligence. If the foolish man says something, shall I have to accept it? You use your own intelligence. "They say." If they are authority, then we have got authority. If you do not accept my authority, why shall I accept your authority? Come to argument. "They say." Why we will accept "They say"? They... Why? Are they authority?

Rāmeśvara: No.

Prabhupāda: Then? What is the use of "They say"? You say. When you'll say "They say," I'll say "They say," (laughter) my authorities. My authorities. If you defy my authority, why shall I accept your authority? Then come to plain logic.

Madhudviṣa: Well, you look at the earth, and you see it. It is stationary.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Madhudviṣa: Just like we look at the building over there. From a distance, it is stationary. But if we go inside, we can see there is so much movement.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Madhudviṣa: So similarly, you may walk by this earth every day and see it is stationary, but if you analyze it underneath a microscope, you will see that there is so much movement going on within.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So many things are coming according to their research.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about the city of Dvārakā? We do not find it remaining anymore.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Might have (indistinct).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we cannot believe what we don't see.

Haṁsadūta: Actually the scientists don't accept this theory at all any more about the man...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Haṁsadūta: The more advanced scientists, the more up-to-date ones, they reject this whole Darwin thing. But it's become so ingraded in the minds of the people that they have published, this Life, Time Magazine, they publish millions of books and sell it. People read about ape man, the man came from the ape and so on. It's become such a popular, it's like a fairy tale.

Prabhupāda: Propaganda, it is propaganda. That's all. Propaganda, you can do any false thing (indistinct) say. This is called, propaganda is called in Bengali dāsa cakre bhagavān butha (?). Dāsa cakre bhagavān butha. Bhagavān, one gentleman's name was Bhagavān and he spread, conspired that let us, make us some joke that she has become ghost. So wherever he was going, the friend: "Oh, oh, a ghost, ghost, ghost, ghost!" (everyone laughs) "No, no, I am not..." (indistinct) ...this man has become crazy, why he (indistinct) Then he goes another friend, then he also says like that, "Oh, here is a ghost, here is a ghost, here is a ghost!" (everyone laughs) Then third friend, everyone, because they have conspired. Then he began to think, "I must have become ghost." (laughter) So certainly I'm... (indistinct) all friends have calling me, "Ghost, ghost." That's dāsa cakre bhagavān... If you make propaganda, if he's not ghost, you can make him ghost. This is propaganda. This is called propaganda. By propaganda you can establish a false thing as real. That's all. This is going on. They know how to do it. They're expert because they're cheaters. They know how to do it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cheating business.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Jayadharma: They say that they don't accept this body as a machine because they've never experienced a machine that can think, feel, and will for itself.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Paramahaṁsa: Well they say that this body is more complicated than any other machine because it can think, feel, and will, whereas other machines don't do that.

Prabhupāda: But the thinking, feeling, the brain is there. If the... That is the particular machine, because the operator is within. That you cannot see. The thinking, feeling is coming from the operator. The soul is there, dehino 'smin yatha dehe (BG 2.13). That these rascals cannot understand, that the thinking, feeling, that is of the operator, not of the machine. Is that clear or not? The operator is within. So the thinking, feeling, as you were asking, that is not of the machine, but of the operator, the soul.

Gaṇeśa: Just like the child, Śrīla Prabhupāda, who was trying to find the sound within the drum, the material scientists are trying to find out the cause and effect of the material world. Is that not intelligence?

Prabhupāda: Yes, but they have not reached the ultimate goal.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That credit we give them. Just like this child. But the childishness is this, that when they are given correct information, they do not take it. (indistinct) If we say to the material scientists that "You are searching after this, here it is, Kṛṣṇa, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo (BG 10.8), I am the original source of everything." they will not accept. That is their foolishness.

Gaṇeśa: They are very inquisitive, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That credit is already given, but you are inquisitive for a certain thing, if the thing is offered, if you do not accept then you become foolish. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19), Vāsudeva, he'll come to that point, that Kṛṣṇa is everything, but when you inform him before that here is the thing, he will not take. That is the foolishness.

Paramahaṁsa: You were saying everyone is inquisitive for happiness, but shouldn't that be purified? Shouldn't we give up all desire for happiness?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Happiness is life. How you can give up?

Paramahaṁsa: But if we desire for happiness, then we are being selfish.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but you do not know where you is your self... (break) ...sense. That is your foolishness. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31), they do not know. Everyone is selfish, everyone is self-interested. But he does not know how to fulfill it. That is foolishness.

Paramahaṁsa: But isn't it better to give up all ego altogether?

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That is fortunate and unfortunate. Just like one inherits father's property. Many millions of dollars, and he has become a poor man by his misusing the money. Like that. He is unfortunate. He got the money, but he could not utilize it.

Jayadharma: Does fortune mean it's the mercy of Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's mercy is always there. It is your misuse of free will. You are given the opportunity—that is fortune. But you do not accept the fortune. That is your misfortune. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛita. Lord Caitanya said, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151). Kono—some fortunate man can accept it. Because mostly they are unfortunate. Just see, throughout the whole of Europe and America we are making propaganda. How many students have come? A very insignificant number, although they have come. They are fortunate.

Amogha: Sometimes we see that a devotee may be very sincere, but at the same time he becomes weak somehow, and he falls down.

Prabhupāda: Even if he falls down, still he is fortunate, because the injection is there. It will act, some day or another. Still he is fortunate. As fortunate man he took it, but he fell down. That does not mean he's unfortunate. Still he's fortunate, because the poison is already there. It will develop. That is called ajñāta sukṛti. Therefore he is not loser. He continues to be fortunate. It will take some time.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Even in your body there is class. The head class, the arm class, the belly class, the leg class. They are working differently for benefit of the whole body. That is natural. If you avoid and if you simply keep the leg, then it will be chaotic condition. Or even if you keep the head only, that will not stand. There must be four. That is natural. That is the Vedic mantra it is said—you are reading the other day—the brāhmaṇas, they came out of the mouth. The kṣatriyas, they came out of the arms. The vaiśyas, they came out of the belt. And the śūdras, they came out of the legs. This is mantra. How you can avoid it? Kṛṣṇa says, "It is My creation. How you can avoid it?" You cannot avoid anything which is created by Kṛṣṇa. Just like sunshine. It is created by Kṛṣṇa. You cannot say, "No, no. I don't want sunshine." That is foolishness. If you want to avoid, then you'll suffer. The sunshine is there, and if you go into the dark place, and cover yourself, then the sunshine is outside, that's all. The sun may not suffer—you'll suffer. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says that "This caste system is created by Me." If you don't accept it, then you'll suffer. Kṛṣṇa will not suffer. (leaves car) ...introducing the caste system, we are introducing a system which, you follow, you'll be happy. Not caste system. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) (in room:)

Jayadharma: They say in India that the caste system apparently is not working.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Amogha: Shall I answer?

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: But that is the way of great writing, to write in symbolism. That is...

Amogha: Great literary works are done in that way.

Paramahaṁsa: They call it "writing between the lines." There's some hidden meaning. Therefore it is very deep.

Amogha: And so if Kṛṣṇa was such a great philosopher, then naturally He would have also used those literary talents to write in between the lines.

Prabhupāda: All right, you become very good bluffer. That's all. We don't accept you. All the ācāryas, they did not accept, those who are authorities. Vyāsadeva, he did not accept these foolish theories. Nārada never accepted. Recent ācāryas, Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Caitanya. Why shall I accept these third-class professors? Kick on their face. We have got authority to support this.

Gaṇeśa: I think they want to interpret Bhagavad-gītā because they do not want to surrender to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That is the idea. That is the real purpose. They want to kill Kṛṣṇa. That is the endeavor of Hiranyakasipu, Kamsa, that "We shall kill Kṛṣṇa." And ultimately they become killed. Their faith is like that.

Amogha: Their whole idea of Indian history, of Vedic history, is completely perverted. When we say five thousand years ago Vyāsadeva compiled this in writing, they say, "There was no civilization five thousand..." They said, "Only two thousand years ago there was some tribes, and they were not very moral," and things like this, all completely nonsense, because they misread the Bhāgavata and things like this. And then they teach some of the students these crazy ideas. Not all of them, but I talked to some who teach like this.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: What was the penalty that he...?

Prabhupāda: He put into the jail for six months. And he died in the jail. He took poison. Because after coming out of the jail, he could not do his business. He's finished.

Gaṇeśa: Also Paundraka.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa cut his head immediately. Let this Guru Mahārāja cut the heads of the opposition, that "You do not accept me God, I cut your head." Let him cut the head of his brother or mother.

Paramahaṁsa: (laughing) He may do that.

Prabhupāda: Then we can understand he is God. Why does he go to the mercy of court? And the court has detained him. What kind of God...? So can you get charcoal?

Amogha: Charcoal, yes

Prabhupāda: Yes, get it. (end)

Room Conversation with Ganesa dasa's Mother and Sister -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: This is the solution of the real problem, that after... If you understand Kṛṣṇa, then after giving up this body, you don't accept another material body. And in the material existence the problems are not solved because you have to, after death, you have to accept another material body. And as soon as you accept a material body, the sufferings are there, at least these four sufferings: birth, death, old age, and disease. So it continues. If you take the body of a human being, the birth, death, old age, disease are there. If you take the body of a heavenly demigod, the birth, death, old age, and disease are there. Or if you take the body of a dog, the birth, death, old age, disease are there. So any kind of birth, material body, you have to accept these four problems. And there are many other problems. But if you stop accepting a material body, then these things are finished. So we are training people, simply janma karma ca me divyam (BG 4.9). What is the purport?

Room Conversation with Ganesa dasa's Mother and Sister -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is evil. You don't try to carry out the orders of God, this is evil.

Mother: But what I'm trying to say is there's more evil in the world than goodness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless there is evil, why you are in this material world? You have accepted evil. Therefore you are in this material world. And if you accept God, the good, then you are in the spiritual world. You don't accept God; you want evil. Therefore you are in the material world. Just like in the jail, prison house, who are they? They are all criminals. Similarly, every one of us who are within this material world, they are all criminals because they have disobeyed the order of God. In different status only, but they are all criminals. Because every one of them is subjected to the rules of nature: birth, death, old age, and disease. So your child is very intelligent. He has taken to this. Now you can do also the same thing, both mother and daughter.

Mother: And his wife.

Gaṇeśa: My wife.

Prabhupāda: Where is your wife?

Gaṇeśa: Melbourne. Śubhalakṣmī-devī.

Prabhupāda: Oh, she is also nice.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Latin, yes. People's vote. The people may be asses, but still, their votes will be taken, the vox populi. The fourth-class, fifth-class men, and they are giving vote. And the mistake is detected. Just like this Nixon was voted and the mistake was detected. But still, they follow the same process, vox populi. What is the value of the votes of the fourth-class, fifth-class men? Better one intelligent man, if he knows things, if he is liberated, if he says, "This is right," that should be taken. That is Vedic civilization. We are accepting Kṛṣṇa. We are not accepting the vox populi. One person, the Supreme, that's all. This is our process. We don't accept vox populi. All these Vedic literature are accepted not on the people's vote, but who is presenting? Vyāsadeva is presenting, Kṛṣṇa is presenting. Parāśara Muni is presenting. Therefore they are accepted. You cannot expect the mass of people very intelligent. That is not possible. So what is the value of their votes if they are not intelligent?

But in the Western countries this is the disease, vox populi. Socrates said there is soul, and he was killed because vox populi was against. Christ was killed because vox populi was against. This is the defect of the Western civilization. During the lifetime of Christ, nobody accepted. When he was killed, or crucified, then the other saintly persons, they gave their experience, what they learned from Jesus Christ. Christ could not give any words. Some sporadic words were there, and the Bible was made on that basis. Actually, the Bible is not the word, directly words of Christ.

Amogha: That must be why it says... It says, "The Gospel according to John," "The Gospel according to Mark."

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Not everything is good. The pigs considers stool is very good, nice food.

Jesuit: Every man is made with sex appetites. Every man is...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is called pravṛtti, pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalā. This is natural inclination, but if you can stop it, that is victory.

Jesuit: No, I can't accept that.

Prabhupāda: Now why you do not accept? In the Christian religion there is unmarried life.

Jesuit: Married life is a good life. The use of sex is good.

Prabhupāda: Good?

Jesuit: Eating is good. If it's abused it's bad.

Prabhupāda: No. Married life is good, that if you follow the rules and regulations. Otherwise...

Jesuit: Therefore sex, in itself, is good.

Prabhupāda: Sex is good, that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, dharmāviruddhaḥ kāmo 'smi. Find out, balaṁ balavatām asmi dharma..., like that.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: We are helping. We are making them God conscious. Yes. That is best help. Instead of making them drunkard, woman-hunter, meat-eaters, we are making them Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the best help.

Jesuit: And do they go out and make other disciples?

Śrutakīrti: He said do we go out and make other disciples.

Prabhupāda: No, we don't accept as disciple anyone who does not follow the rules and regulations.

Jesuit: Is it by prayer to God that you help the world?

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is prayer, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa means "O Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa's energy, please accept me as Your servant."

Jesuit: But are you praying for all these people outside who do not belong to...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Jesuit: So you're...

Prabhupāda: Therefore we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa so that they can hear and take benefit. But they see that, "They are disturbing," but we are helping them.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: More.

Dr. Copeland: Do you have more temples there than here?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We have got very... Recently we have very big temple. There are many other temples in Vṛndāvana.

Dr. Copeland: And what is your relationship with, say, the Ramakrishna Mission?

Prabhupāda: Oh, we have no relationship. We don't accept them as any authority.

Dr. Copeland: Why not?

Prabhupāda: Because they are not doing according to śāstra. They are doing whimsically.

Dr. Copeland: But they are doing very good social work.

Prabhupāda: That social work has nothing to do with spiritual work.

Dr. Copeland: Does this organization do social work?

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the best social work. We are giving the best education, best knowledge, best hope of next life. And what they are giving? They do not know what is next life even.

Dr. Copeland: When you do the translations...

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That means you go to physician, "I want to do everything I like; still I want treatment." This is the position. You want...

Director: I didn't come for treatment. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: No, no, I say... (laughs) No, no, you have come for treatment here because you have failed to control the society, your activities; therefore you have come here, treatment. But when I prescribe medicine, you don't accept.

Director: I haven't come for treatment.

Prabhupāda: No... yes. Otherwise why you come?

Director: I was invited.

Prabhupāda: Just to help you in your social activities, social welfare activities. To take some suggestion from us. But when we give the suggestion, you reject it. That is your position. You have come here to take some suggestion so that you can make your activities very nice, but when we suggest you reject it.

Director: I'm two people—I'm myself and I'm a public servant.

Prabhupāda: Any, anyone. That is the position. For treatment we go to a physician, and the physician prescribes medicine, you reject it. So how you will be cured? That is the position. When the prescription is given you want to put it in the votes of other patients. What the patient will know about the prescription? They are patients. There is no question of...

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Director: If I would come here and want to join your movement I would accept it.

Prabhupāda: No, you join or not join, you have come here to consult us if we can help your activities. But when we prescribe, you do not accept it. That is your position.

Devotee: He has to go now, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Give him prasāda, just... So, to, actually to make the whole human society happy, this God consciousness movement must spread.

Director: Well, I'll certainly report back. Thank you very much for seeing me.

Prabhupāda: Just little wait.

Devotee: We have some nice foodstuffs which we're just preparing to (indistinct). It's a custom. Śrīla Prabhupāda said to give prasādam to everyone.

Prabhupāda: It is our custom that if anyone comes, he should be offered a nice seat and given some eatables. Yes.

Director: How long will you be staying in Melbourne?

Prabhupāda: I am going day after tomorrow.

Morning Walk -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Madhudviṣa: ...comprised of spirit souls, unlimited amounts of shining spirit souls?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Combination.

Madhudviṣa: Combination. Of something else besides...?

Prabhupāda: Impersonalists, they do not accept personal feature. Means they fall down again.

Madhudviṣa: That means there must be a lot of impersonalists.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Madhudviṣa: It seems there would be a lot of impersonalists.

Prabhupāda: No, more than them, there are personalists. They are in Vaikuṇṭhaloka.

Devotee 3: (break) ...in the material world.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee 3: Is there any real happiness?

Prabhupāda: That is material world, no happiness.

Devotee 4: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is the advantage of going to India, to Vṛndāvana?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Then who is going to hell? If everyone is saved like that, then who is going to hell?

Paramahaṁsa: "Well, not everyone will accept Jesus in their heart. So those people have to go to hell."

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Has Jesus Christ said like that, that "Those who believe in me, they will be saved"?

Paramahaṁsa: Yes, he says like that.

Prabhupāda: So believing means "I don't accept your commandments." Is that belief? Has Jesus Christ that "You don't believe in my commandments, but you believe in me."

Śrutakīrti: Christ never spoke the commandments. That was Moses.

Prabhupāda: Then don't take Bible. Throw it away. Then don't bring Bible as authority.

Gurukṛpa: They have no argument on any...

Prabhupāda: (break) ...fallen from their original culture. Still, we have seen, as soon as there is Kṛṣṇa conscious festival, thousands and thousands of men... That we have experienced.

Gurukṛpa: But in India it seems that no matter what you tell them, they don't change their ways. They have their...

Prabhupāda: No, they believe in Kṛṣṇa, "He is God." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). That they believe in.

Śrutakīrti: But that's what the Christians say. "We believe in Christ," but they don't follow.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Paramahaṁsa: Yeah, '47.

Prabhupāda: And it is seventy...

Paramahaṁsa: Almost thirty years.

Prabhupāda: Thirty years. What they have done? All the best men of the whole world, they are there, but no united, simply disunited. Common platform, they are not agreeable. They do not accept God.

Yogi Bhajan: Um hm.

Prabhupāda: That is the difficulty, no central point. You have got your own philosophy. I have got my own philosophy. He has got his own philosophy. Now, how we will agree?

Yogi Bhajan: No, I may not agree with your philosophy, and you may not agree with my philosophy, but one thing we both have agreed that you are you, and I am I, and both can have respect and love for each other. And there has to be a place where everybody should be given that opportunity.

Prabhupāda: That is going on. When I meet you I say, "Yes sir." You say, "Yes sir." That is all right. That is social etiquette. But real unity is on the platform of spirit soul. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Paṇḍita, he is sama-darśina.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: So that's all right. The followers may think of Him. Man-manā. "You become My devotee, become My devotee and worship Me and offer respect to Me," that's all. So we are teaching our student, "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, always think of Him. You just offer your respect and worship Him. In this way become His devotee." We do not... Spiritually, thing is (?) (indistinct) That's all right. And they are doing that and they are getting the result. We do not say that "Sit down, press your nose, and meditate and this, that," or, no. Simple thing. There is God, we have got our temple... (Aside:) Don't make now this sort of thing.... Simple thing. We have got our temple. We say that "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Here is God. And think of Him." As soon as you chant "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa..." Everyone has got the beads. That means you are thinking of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā. And then we are offering respect, go to the temple and offer our obeisance, very simple thing. So we accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So if you don't accept, then you must have your own God. Do that. But the followers of Vedic principle, they will accept Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Lord. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). I think somebody was telling me that Guru Nanak also accepted Kṛṣṇa as the supreme father. Is it a fact? I do not know.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Yogi Bhajan: That doesn't solve the problem of the world.

Prabhupāda: No, first of all, if we know, "Here is God," then it will solve the problem. But if we do not accept... If I... I can hear from you, provided I know that you are some big man. Otherwise how shall I agree to hear from you? The obedience must be there. A student, a small child, hears the teacher because he knows that "My teacher is very great."

Yogi Bhajan: No, we may try to become limited or unlimited. Question is very simple. There are four billion people on this earth and...

Prabhupāda: And therefore they are not expected to understand, four billion. They should follow the leader. It is not expected that...

Yogi Bhajan: That is what we are trying to do. We are going to get the leaders together.

Prabhupāda: That leaders... the leaders are already there. Now, suppose Guru Nanak says "Kṛṣṇa is God," so will the Sikhs follow Guru Nanak or their own whims?

Yogi Bhajan: No, no, Sikh will follow the instructions...

Prabhupāda: Of Guru Nanak.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Brahma-karma svabhāva... this is first-class man. Śamaḥ. Śamaḥ means controlling the sense or controlling the mind. And damaḥ, controlling the sense. Now, if either you may be Hindu, Muslim, Christian... Now, if I say, "Please come here. Learn this thing, how to control the mind, how to control the senses," so who will object to it? So if anyone is trained up, it doesn't matter from which sect, which family he is coming, if he has learned how to control the mind, how control the senses, then he becomes first-class man. So we have got everything already spoken by God. If we accept it, then there is unity. But we don't accept, we manufacture something. That is the difficulty.

Yogi Bhajan: Yeah, but let us agree to confer...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Your...

Yogi Bhajan: There will be difficulty.

Prabhupāda: Our difficulty is that we don't agree. If I say, "Come here. Be educated," and if you don't agree, "No, no. I don't want," then how you can be educated? One must agree what God says. They will say, "I believe. We believe." What is the "I believe, we believe"? If you want to become first-class man, then this is the formula: Control your mind, control your senses, be fully in knowledge. Practically apply knowledge in life. So this is first class. Then the second-class men, you see, what is that? Kṣatriya.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Devotee: "Power, determination..."

Prabhupāda: Power. He must have power, influence. Why he should beg vote, "Give me vote, give me vote, give me vote," begging? Where is power? If he is begging vote, where is power? Formerly the kings... Just like they used to take sword. "If you don't accept me, then I shall kill you." This is power. Śauryaṁ tejam...

Devotee: Dhṛtir, determination.

Prabhupāda: Determination, and yuddhe ca apalāyanam. Now when there is war, these politician will remain in their room safely. They will not go to the war. And why these people are voted for political post? Formerly the king would first of all stand. To the other side also, the king is there and this side also. The fight is going on. If the king is killed, then the victory is there. Yuddhe ca apalāyanam. The formula is there. So these classes of man should be on the administration, not anyone coward, nonsense, and by hook and crook they get some vote and take the political leader... How you will find peace? The fourth class is required. Just like in your body you have got brain, brain is required. Then hand. Whenever there is some attack, consciously, unconsciously, I forward my hand. So the division is already there. If you come to attack me with a knife, I don't push my head. I push my hand. So when there is attack, the brāhmaṇas are not expected to go forward; the kṣatriyas. So this is training. Everything is perfectly there. People are not accepting. You don't require conference. You simply accept the standard knowledge. Then everything is there. I am speaking to you because you are leader of the society. So if we take Bhagavad-gītā seriously and train people from all over the world —not that Bhagavad-gītā is meant for the Hindu or for the Indians—for everyone, then there will be all right. Otherwise difficult...

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Harikeśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was wondering if it was more important to understand the universal make up or simply to accept what Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam says.

Prabhupāda: That means you don't accept Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam?

Harikeśa: No. But some of the things in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam are difficult to understand.

Prabhupāda: Rascal, fool. Therefore it is difficult for you.

Harikeśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You should not... You understand or not understand, you have to accept it.

Harikeśa: That is why we are asking so many questions about the moon and the planets.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so where is the doubt? It is a fact that they did not go to the moon. That's a fact.

Harikeśa: I'm just trying to understand for preaching purposes.

Prabhupāda: Why do you try to understand?

Harikeśa: Because I have a hard time explaining about the make up of the universe as far as...

Prabhupāda: That make up is all right, what they say?

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Siddha-svarūpa: They're testing after a material thing. Try to understand it. They're testing the mental plane and they're thinking that that's the spiritual plane.

Prabhupāda: Their position is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā. These rascals, avajānanti, I mean to say, cares a fig for Kṛṣṇa, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is also a very big man, that's all." Just the Arya Samaji says in India, that "We don't accept Him as God, but He is a very big man, a very big politician, like that." So that is described in the Bhagavad..., avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam, paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto (BG 9.11). The paraṁ bhāvam, what is the actual significance, that is, they do not know. What is the actual significance of the soul and soul platform, spiritual..., that they do not know. They are studying from the mental platform. So they have to go beyond mental platform, avāṅ mānasa-gocara, beyond bodily mental platform. Then they will understand.

Harikeśa: So we shouldn't bother with such tests?

Prabhupāda: No.

Siddha-svarūpa: By submitting to them we're actually... We're endorsing that they are dealing with the spiritual.

Prabhupāda: When they come first of all, you have to inform them that "We are working on the platform of the soul. What do you know about the soul?"

Harikeśa: This psychologist has become a devotee.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's nice. (break) How it will be conducted? The idea is very nice. Who has analyzed?

Bahulāśva: Who has...? Dharmādhyakṣa has done the analytical breakdown.

Prabhupāda: Oh, analysis is done nice, of the study.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we want your direction on how to actually do it.

Prabhupāda: Actually our, that you have already mentioned, that "Example is better than precept." Our whole process is following the example of predecessors, nothing independent. So that principle should be followed. We do not accept any precept who is free from the predecessors. Do you follow?

Bahulāśva: Uh huh.

Prabhupāda: Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). This is the secret of devotional service: nothing to do independent. Then it will be all right. (break) ...the particular, specific qualification of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. How they are doing? They have got so many other institutions. So what is the result? The Graduate Theological Union... So I saw so many names. What they are doing?

Dharmādhyakṣa: Well, that's why they want us to join.

Prabhupāda: But we cannot join like that way.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Oh, no. On our own standards.

Bahulāśva: We will be independent of that group. They will not dictate anything to us.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Let him come. I shall talk with him.

Morning Walk -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: There is no day?

Brahmānanda: Yes. (break) ...sociological problems there. Because when it's all night, people become very depressed and there's a high suicide rate. So they have been trying to have these artificially lights to light up the cities and make it appear as if it was daytime.

Jayatīrtha: Why not just make one big sun, big scientists?

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Still they do not accept God. (break) ...ājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro. Everything is. (break) ...cribing the whole universal situation, Śukadeva Gosvāmī concluded, "as God has made it." He never mentioned any other demigod. "As God has made it." Yathā bhagavān kriyetām (break) ...not to accept the authority of Kṛṣṇa, misfortune. Narādhama. (break) (walking:) ...kara bhai, ara saba mithyā, palaya patha nara yo mache piche(?): "Everyone should take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Remember, behind you there is the Yamarāja, death." (break) ...to avoid this horrible conception that there is death, and they avoid this, that "There is death, but there is no life again." That's all. (break) ...this dog race and what is the rat race? There is a word, rat race?

Jayatīrtha: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: What is it?

Jayatīrtha: That describes the modern culture. Everyone runs around like rats in a maze, looking for food. It's a psychological test. They put rats in a maze and at one end of the maze they put some food. So the rats run all through the maze trying to find the food. (break)

Room Conversation -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Let them ask. But you can tell away that(?) but you don't repeat this thing. You can give up that portion. You read other portion.

Devotee (1): But then because so many things they have to accept on faith without knowing, it then weakens their faith as to what they should accept and why should they accept Kṛṣṇa, who they can't see any more than King Ugrasena's four billion bodyguards.

Prabhupāda: Don't accept. Don't accept.

Devotee (2): But we want them to accept. The point is, if we say to a scientific man, "There was four billion," and if our statement is wrong...

Prabhupāda: But our position is that if some portion we cannot understand, it is our incapability.

Devotee (2): That is all right. But since we are...

Prabhupāda: That's all. Unless we have got this faith we cannot use these Purāṇas. In the Purāṇas there are many such statements.

Devotee (2): Yes, but we just want to understand.

Room Conversation -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Therefore many people, they do not accept Purāṇas. So what can be done?

Devotee (2): We're just trying to understand it because we've never dealt with Purāṇas before. We have been your disciples. But when we present this to the scientific community, because you have said that if one word is wrong, the whole philosophy is wrong, so they will say to us...

Prabhupāda: So let them take it and throw out, don't read it. That's all.

Devotee (2): But then they discredit the Bhagavad-gītā. We don't like that when they discredit the Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Why? They don't believe. What is the use?

Devotee (2): Well, because we also want to know how did they have four billion personal servants just so that we'll be able to convince them and also...

Prabhupāda: If a king has four billion servants, so it is not very astonishing. Why do you think that a king shall have only four servants?

Devotee (2): Well, there's only two billion people on the planet right now.

Room Conversation -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, no. You have already given up. My disciples do not keep so many hair.

Devotee (2): Many of your disciples do.

Prabhupāda: No. I don't accept that. You just this one circle, little. But those who are keeping big hairs, they are rejected from my disciples.

Devotee (2): All right. That is clearing some things up.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (2): This is what we want to know.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (2): Because then that is an unequivocal statement.

Prabhupāda: No. This is, that you can, that anyone who is keeping hairs and not following the rules and regulations, they are rejected from second initiation.

Devotee (2): What if they are keeping hair but they are following the rules and regulations.

Prabhupāda: Then let them follow. That's a good life. But from external features he must be a Vaiṣṇava.

Room Conversation -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when His students used to come without tilaka, so He refused to see his face. He refused to see his face. He said it is a crematory ground.

Devotee (2): Why is that?

Prabhupāda: There is no "why." If you accept it, accept. If you don't accept, leave us, leave us. There is no "why."

Devotee (2): Then that is...

Prabhupāda: You are not following strictly. You cannot ask why.

Devotee (2): We could not ask why when we were following strictly either, Prabhupāda. So I'm sorry that it has to be this way.

Prabhupāda: No, our thing is that we have got some principles. If anyone cannot follow, then we don't accept him.

Devotee (1): Then what do you do with the rest of the world, except for the few people who...

Prabhupāda: So what I can do I am doing. Therefore you have no right to ask me. What is possible by me I am doing. And those who are able to follow, they are following. That's all.

Devotee (2): But they cannot engage anyone else. How can you reach the intelligent class?

Prabhupāda: So that is their business. That is not your business.

Room Conversation -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So that is their business. That is not your business.

Devotee (2): We are trying to be disciples, so we considered it our business because we are sincerely trying.

Prabhupāda: So why you are bothering me? You do your business.

Devotee (2): Because from you only...

Prabhupāda: I do not accept you because you are keeping hairs.

Devotee (2): I did not know that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (2): You never told me that in Hawaii.

Prabhupāda: Now I say, I'll repeat that anyone who is keeping long hairs, he is no more my disciple.

Devotee (2): All right.

Prabhupāda: This is the first condition.

Devotee (1): Does that apply also for householder dharma, or is that simply for brahmacārī dharma? Even you... I have pictures of you on the Bhāgavatam when you did not have shaved head, with a mustache when you were doing your business as a householder. So does that apply to householders, or only to brahmacārīs, that a householder must also keep a shaved head or is that...?

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Lt. Mozee: Do you find that you have—again, a personal thing—do you find that you are having difficulty disassociating yourself with false prophets like the Guruji?

Prabhupāda: No, we don't accept. We don't. Because...

Lt. Mozee: I mean disassociating your group with a man like that.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Certainly, we disassociate. We have no very good opinion.

Lt. Mozee: It would seem to me that it would be a very difficult thing...

Prabhupāda: Yes, for others to distinguish.

Lt. Mozee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But one has to see by the result.

Lt. Mozee: Um hm.

Prabhupāda: Phalena paricīyate. It is very difficult to distinguish which is good medicine, which is bad medicine. By the effect. Thank you.

Lt. Mozee: I thank you for your time, sir.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: No, recognize means if a man is qualified medical man we accept him as medical man. And if a man is qualified engineer, we accept him as engineer. Similarly, Bhagavad-gītā suggests—not suggest, it is there—there are four classes of men, the most intelligent class of men, the administrator class of men, the productive class of men and ordinary worker. That is already there. Bhagavad-gītā says how they should be classified, that "He belongs to this class, he belongs to that class." That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, not that by birth, hereditarily, one becomes a caste. You don't try to misunderstand. The classification is already there: one class of men, very intelligent. Is he not there in the human society? Do you think all men are equally intelligent? Do you think? There must be one class, very highly intelligent class. So what are the symptoms of the intelligent class? That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. The first-class intelligent man... (break) ...you find all these qualities, he is first-class man. So we are trying to introduce that, that without first-class man, the society is useless. So there are first-class men. You train up. Just like a boy is intelligent; still, he requires training in the school, college. Then he maintains his first-class brain, first-class position. So there is first-class man. Now we have to train them properly how to become controller of the mind, how to become controller of the senses, how to become truthful, how to become cleansed internally, externally, how to become full of knowledge, how to try to apply the knowledge in practical life, how to become God conscious. This training is... A first-class man can take up, just like they are taking, all these boys. They had their first-class brain, and now they are being trained up. That is required, trained up first-class men. That training is required. So we are not introducing caste system, that any rascal born in a brāhmaṇa family, he becomes a brāhmaṇa. We don't accept that.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Just convince him.

Jayatīrtha: So do you understand? The idea is that this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is based on authority of the Vedas. And the Vedic literatures are coming directly from Kṛṣṇa. So we only accept it as truth what Kṛṣṇa says and we don't accept anybody's mental concoctions or speculations as being truth. And this is the problem with so many other religious movements today, that they depend on the interpretation or the...

Prabhupāda: Concoction.

Jayatīrtha: ...philosophy of some ordinary man. So this is the primary differential.

Prabhupāda: We don't say anything which is not spoken by God in the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore it is appealing everywhere. Although it is in Sanskrit language, still, it is appealing. Just like if you go on the street and the signboard is, "Keep to the right," this is law. I cannot say, "What is the wrong if I keep to the left?" Then I am criminal. You cannot dictate. The government has said, "Keep to the right." You have to do that, that is law. If you violate, then you are criminal. Pay fine. But ordinarily, one may think, "What is the wrong there, instead of keeping right, if I keep to the left?" He may think like that, but he doesn't know that is criminal.

Father: Yes. In the Bhagavad-gītā, I'm told that there are some two hundred versions of that. Is that the case?

Prabhupāda: Two hundred verses?

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So this instruction is strīṣu duṣṭāsu: "When women become polluted, there is unwanted population." That is coming all over the world, the hippies. Therefore the first thing is how to train up women not to become polluted. This is the way of... In the modern society they have given women freedom. That I have already explained. In the name of freedom of woman, they are being exploited. Everything is there: social, religious, political, cultural, educational. We have to accept that course. Then everything will be all right. If you don't accept, then you have to suffer problems. It is not meant for a particular class of men or particular country, it is meant for the whole human society. Therefore, this purification of the society at the present, fallen condition is very, very difficult to revive. Because people are so fallen, it is almost impossible. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended that "You all together chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and everything will be done nicely."

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva (gatir anyathā)

(CC Adi 17.21)

In Kali-yuga it is very difficult to reform the whole human society to become perfect by this process, Vedic process. It is not possible. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu's, that "You chant congregationally this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Never mind. Whatever impurities have entered, it will be all cleansed." That you have seen yesterday in the procession. So everyone was chanting in ecstasy Hare Kṛṣṇa. You have seen? Yes. So this is the process which we are trying to introduce, not anything, caste system or this system, no. Then everything will come automatically. Easiest process.

Devotee: We're teaching in Kṛṣṇa consciousness how everything can become solved by developing love and devotion for God, Kṛṣṇa. So I...

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1975, San Francisco:

Jayatīrtha: When Arjuna came, he was suffering so much distress, but Kṛṣṇa did not give him any psychological test to see what was the matter with him. He immediately knew it was because he was in the bodily conception of life.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, the thing is that you say that it is life which makes matter move, but the scientists, they don't accept that.

Prabhupāda: Because they are rascals. How it is moving?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say it's a certain combination of matter.

Prabhupāda: You make it. That means experiment. You simply observe, but you have no experiment. Therefore it is not science.

Brahmānanda: You have to demonstrate knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes, demonstrate. You make in the laboratory that things are moving by this combination. Otherwise it is useless. Therefore two things must be there: observation and experiment, practical and theoretical. Theoretical—something is there who is moving. Now you make it practical to see that this combination... Just like they say chemical combination. Now take the chemicals and make experiment.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Devotee (4): What I meant to say is that the directors of these religions like the Pope and so many things, they themselves have committed so many abominable activities that people have said, "Well, why should we stay with religion? These religious leaders themselves are eating meat, they have prostitution, they are cheating the people, taking their money, living very nicely..."

Prabhupāda: But that is not religion. Why you accept the Pope as religious?

Devotee (4): No, we don't accept...

Prabhupāda: You reject. You reject. Come to us. Why do you accept these rascals as religious? That is your fault. Why should you stick to them? They cannot teach what is real religion, so let us give you.

Paramahaṁsa: In Germany they say that's throwing the baby out with the dirty bath water.

Prabhupāda: Throwing? (laughter)

Paramahaṁsa: They wash the baby, and the water's dirty. So they throw the water out with the baby.

Prabhupāda: Throwing out the baby?

Devotee (4): With the bath water.

Paramahaṁsa: Well, they're assuming because there's some irreligion amongst the so-called religious leaders, therefore they reject all religion.

Prabhupāda: No.

Morning Walk -- July 28, 1975, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: ...explain; therefore they bring this theory of chance. But we don't find any such chance in practical life. "There was a fool and he became high-court judge." Is there any? "There was a fool. He became a high-court judge." Is there any evidence like that? "There was ape. It became human, human being." I am simply surprised how this kind of argument is accepted by other fools.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And if you don't accept it, then they fail you in the examination.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If you don't accept and repeat it, then you become failed in the examination. Then you can't get a diploma. Then you cannot get a good job. So they force you to repeat it. (break)

Prabhupāda: Field. All of a sudden it became by chance a garden and beautiful, everything. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: El Cid Conquedor.

Jayatīrtha: He was a famous Spanish soldier.

Rāmeśvara: He fought the Muslims when they invaded Spain. He is a famous Spanish man who fought against the Muslims when they invaded. From Africa, they crossed over the sea and invaded Spain.

Brahmānanda: The Moors. (break)

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: No, why don't you become fanatical? (laughter)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Although it says in the Bible even that one should praise the Lord's name with cymbals and drums...

Prabhupāda: They have no concern with Bible and God and everything. They are simply after sense gratification. What is the use of quoting about Bible? They don't care for Bible. The Europeans, Americans, they have rejected, thrown away, kicked out Bible because (it is) unscientific. Actually they do not accept. Although they call themselves Christian, they do not accept anything of Bible. That is... Bible is finished. There is no meaning of Bible. Simply for their sectarian prestige, they say "Bible." But actually they have nothing to do with Bible. What do you think?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's true.

Prabhupāda: They do not go to the church, but they come to us for arguing with Bible. Just see. What is the meaning? Their churches have closed, nobody goes, and they come to argue with us with Bible. That means "The Devil cites scripture." They are devils, and they are quoting from Bible.

Devotee (2): So many people who come to our program, they are Christians. There may be 75% who come. They are all Christians.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. We don't discriminate whether he is Christian. We take everyone as human being, welcome. So what do they say? They also quote Bible?

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We know that Kṛṣṇa desires everyone to become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is... Kṛṣṇa says. That is His desire. Sarva-dharmān pa..., mām ekāṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. That is Kṛṣṇa's desire.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So Kṛṣṇa is not causing everyone to forget Him.

Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa's desire is open to everyone. We don't accept it. That is our obstinacy. Kṛṣṇa says "There is soul." We do not say. "No, there is no soul." This is our position. Kṛṣṇa says, "Within this body there is soul," and we don't accept. We'll argue. This is our position. He is giving direct instruction, "Yes, there is soul," but we don't accept. Disobedient.

Cyavana: But if Kṛṣṇa knows that we will suffer in this material world, why does He let us go away from Him? Why doesn't He keep us there?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Cyavana: If Kṛṣṇa knows that we will suffer here in this material world if we come here, why does He let us go?

Prabhupāda: Why the thief goes to the prisonhouse? He knows that "If I go to the prisonhouse, I will be put into distress."

Cyavana: But the government is not strong enough to force him not to go, not to steal.

Prabhupāda: Why government is not strong enough?

Morning Walk -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Devotee (5): Many people, they don't want to accept a captain. They want to go all alone.

Prabhupāda: Let them be drowned. Who can check them? If they do not accept good captain, let them be drowned. There is no regret for them. Let them go to hell. They are going, actually. For their dog's obstinacy they are going to hell. Adānta-gobhir viṣatāṁ tamiśram (SB 7.5.30). This is stated. Because they cannot control their senses they are going to hell.

Indian man (4): Swamijī, is there any hell, or rather this is hell...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Why not? Why not?

Indian man (4): Above the world or in the world?

Prabhupāda: Huh? You know everything, where, what is where? Do you know? Then why do you ask this question? There is. There is. There is planet, hellish planet.

Indian man (4): I don't know, I have thought about this, that the hell of the pradas(?) exists only in this world itself.

Prabhupāda: Because you are the frog of the well. The frog of the well thinks, "This well is everything." And if you say, "There is Atlantic Ocean," he cannot imagine, the frog of the well. You know frog of the well?

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is my point. That is my point.

Prof. Olivier: This is the point that he's trying to make, that we have not been able to absorb into scientific studies those spiritual components which go up to make the whole of man. And I would agree. I think it's one of the great shortcomings in our modern educational system, that we... Not that we do not accept this. I think basically, as an intrastructure, we accept this. But it's like a house. When you look at all the superstructures you do not inquire too deeply about the foundations of that superstructure.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Thank you very much. (chuckles)

Prof. Olivier: And now your point is that the time has come for society and the world to find out if there are cracks in the superstructure. Whether these cracks are just superficial cracks or whether they are caused by foundational cracks or shifts in the corners of the foundational structure. And I, like you, I believe that this is not entirely a question of... Well, it's certainly not a question of whether it's Hinduism or Christian or Islam.

Prabhupāda: It is the foundation.

Morning Walk -- October 9, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Thousand miles above the sun.

Indian man: Well, they say...

Prabhupāda: They say. They're all fools.

Indian man: Quarter million miles.

Prabhupāda: We don't accept them.

Indian man: 1,600,000.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Above the sun.

Indian man: Above the sun.

Prabhupāda: And how they will go?

Indian man: And the sun is 96,000,000 miles away.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That they cannot go there.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: 93,000,000.

Indian man: Ninety-three.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Prabhupāda.

Morning Walk -- October 9, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Dogmatic, no. Why we should waste our time talking with such foolish men? "I don't believe." No, what... You believe or not believe; fact is fact. You are going to be old man. If you say "I don't believe," then is that a very good proposition? It does not depend on your believing or not believing. The nature's course will take place. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). That will go on. What is there in your believing and not believing? If you keep yourself in such darkness that "If you believe, then it is fact," then you are a fool, rascal. If you depend only on your belief, then you are a fool. What is the meaning of your belief? "I believe if I touch fire it will not burn." Will this belief protect me? You touch fire; it will burn. You believe or not believe. What is this argument, "We don't believe"? This is going on. If nature's law is that you must die, then if you believe, "No, I'll not die," will that belief protect you? You have to submit to the nature's law. Why don't you understand this? You are talking of "believe and not believe." Whole world is going on in this way: "We think," "I suppose," "Perhaps," "I believe," like this. Where is science? Science does not depend on your "belief, not belief, supposing, perhaps." This is not science. But they are going on like that. Whole Darwin's theory is based on this, "Maybe millions of years past..." We want perfect knowledge, not such, what is called, saṁśayam. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, asaṁśayaṁ, "without any doubt." That is knowledge. And samagram, "complete." So if we have got the chance of knowing complete, without any doubt, so why shall I go to you, rascal? Your knowledge is based on "perhaps, maybe." I will have to go somewhere to take knowledge, so why not go to Kṛṣṇa, where the knowledge is complete and without any doubt? Why shall I go to you, you rascal? You simply say "maybe, perhaps, I think." What is the use of this knowledge? We don't accept. You cannot say that "You are right; I am wrong" because you are also going to somebody to get knowledge, I am also going to somebody to get knowledge. So here it assured, that "complete knowledge without any doubt." But you have no such confidence. Am I right or not?

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: So in the Bhagavad-gītā, everything is explained very scientifically, not, I mean to say, a sentimental explanation, no. Logically, scientifically.

Prof. Olivier: The problem as I see it, of course, is how to get modern man to make this study in depth that is contained or outlined in this book. Especially when you are caught up in an educational system that denies a place to this very concept or even the philosophy of it, it's...

Prabhupāda: The modern education, they do not accept soul?

Prof. Olivier: Part of it in theory perhaps, and at the junior stage. But as they...as we advance, there is either a complete neutrality or a...just a simple rejection of these truths.

Prabhupāda: They do not accept soul.

Prof. Olivier: They accept the soul, I think so, but they do not care to analyze what it means.

Prabhupāda: Oh. And it is without analyzing this, what is the education? First of all this should be analyzed, what is the distinction between a dead body and a living body. That must be analyzed. Otherwise what is the education? We are dealing with this body. The body is always dead. Just like a motorcar with driver and without driver. The car is always a lump of matter. Similarly, this body, with the soul and without the soul, is a lump of matter. Therefore the...

Prof. Olivier: Not worth very much.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Neither we are after false followers. If you agree, then you come. If you agree—"No illicit sex, no... Yes..." Why? There is no "Why?" You have to accept it. Then you come to me. That's all. If you like, you come; if you don't like, go away. I don't care for you. This is our policy. There is no "why?" You may say, "dogmatic," but it is not dogmatic but it is standard from Bhagavad-gītā, from Vedic literatures. Striya-suna-pana-dyuta yatra papas catur-vidhāh: (SB 1.17.38) "Wherever there are these four kinds of sinful activities, oh, that is very dangerous place." So we have taken it. (break) Now everyone, when there are so many cars... I saw one advertisement, Ford car, that "Bring all '79 cars and compare. Ours is the best." You cannot condemn him. It is advertisement. "Bring all '79 cars, others, and compare with our car." You can have your consent. That is not cheating. So we say like that, that "Bring all knowledge and compare with Bhagavad-gita's knowledge." Now it is up to you if you accept this or don't accept it. That is not cheating. But these rascals, they are simply placing some bogus theory without any authorized statement: "All of a sudden monkey once gave birth." And where is that authority?

Harikeśa: Monkey?

Prabhupāda: "Monkey gave birth to man, all of a sudden, millions of years..." Now, what is the support of your statement? Then anyone can say anything and it becomes science. You have no support. You are the first man. You are saying like this, nonsense. Where is your support? You are support of your statement? Then everyone will say, "I have got some statement, and I support. I am the support."

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: A rascal, that's all. And they are trying to maintain this body, although the rascals know it will not be maintained. You cannot. You are not allowed to maintain, neither you'll be allowed. Still, they are trying. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Which is impossible, cannot be allowed, and they are trying for it. How this body can be maintained? "Yes, we are trying. Now the disease has been reduced. Now they are living more days." These are their foolish. They will never say "No, it is impossible." Still, they will support their rascal endeavors. (aside:) No, that's all right.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That is another sign of their rascaldom, that they don't accept that all of their endeavors to maintain the body will be defeated.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are seeing, experiencing. History never says that any man has become immortal, even Hiranyakasipu, and what to speak of these small demons. A great demon like Hiranyakasipu, he could not, and what to speak of these tiny demons? One kick is sufficient to kill them.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They never say that.

Prabhupāda: The European lady will never take a burden on head like this, but Indians, they do. Even respectable family woman, they also carry on the head. You will find many Gujarati. Simple living is natural.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How is it that the Europeans especially, they have become the vanguard of rascal culture?

Morning Walk -- October 25, 1975, Mauritius:

Indian man: They were trying to...

Prabhupāda: "Trying." That's it. And therefore they should be kicked on their face. They are trying like foolish man and it will never be successful; therefore they should be kicked. This is our proposition. "Trying," "in future," this is their bluff. We don't accept this. (break) ...one check, million dollars, postdated. Then, if you ask me, "Why you have postdated?" "No, I have no money now. In future it will be deposited." Will you accept that check? This is their bluff.

Harikeśa: Well, why not accept it? It might turn out. It might turn out in the future.

Prabhupāda: So a rascal like you will accept. (laughter) We are not so... (break) ...transaction, even today's date check, they will not accept. Bring cash.

Brahmānanda: 'Cause the cheating tendency is there.

Prabhupāda: That's all. It is cheating. Postdated check means he cheats. What is the guarantee that there will be deposit of money? Will the bank guarantee?

Harikeśa: They've done so many good things in the past, you can understand that...

Prabhupāda: No good things. All bluffs. What good things they have done which has benefited the human society or saved the human society from birth, death, old age and disease? What they have done? Our main problem is this. And when there is no food, what the scientists can do? If there is no rice, no wheat? That will come.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Brahmānanda: Even they are changing their interpretation of the...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: ...Bible regularly.

Prabhupāda: So if you don't accept Aquarian Gospel authority, who cares for your Bible? At least Aquarian Gospel has been written by some Christian. It is not outsider.

Harikeśa: They say he was a drunk.

Prabhupāda: But you are a mad. He is drunk, and you are mad. Where is the difference? So, if we can go? (break) It was a statement that the earth is flat. Eh? Where it was stated the earth is flat?

Harikeśa: Oh. That was a theory of one of the contemporary Roman philosophers.

Prabhupāda: It is not in Bible.

Harikeśa: No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (Break) There is no information in the Bible at all about God. There's no information about God, simply that God is there, He's the creator, but nothing more.

Prabhupāda: That is in no scripture excepting the Vedic scripture. Clear conception of God is there in the Vedic. Definition of God, clear conception of God, everything is there.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Brahmānanda: They think it's some lesser, ordinary.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And if you say, "Why, then, Kṛṣṇa? There are many names," so Caitanya: "Yes, any name of God, if it is God's name, it is as powerful." If it is God's name. "Any name" does not mean you manufacture some name. That is not. Any name by which one can understand this is God's name, that is there said. Nāmnam akari bahudha-nija sarva-śaktis tatrarpita niyamitaḥ smarane na kalaḥ. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's preaching. If you do not accept Kṛṣṇa as a God's name, then if you have your own name of Kṛṣṇa, er, God, chant it.

Brahmānanda: But it must be standard.

Prabhupāda: Must be God's name.

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is wanted. But if you do not know what is God's name, then what you will chant? What you will chant? Then you chant Kṛṣṇa. We know it is God's name. Take. Take to our principle. If there is no medical college, come to our medical college. You are welcome. Why you are envious? You have no medical college; at the same time, you are envious of my medical college. Why? Why this nonsense? If you want to learn medical science—you have no medical science, college-come here. This is our proposal. Why you are envious? That means rascal. "Our gold." Gold is "our gold," everyone's gold? "Our gold." What do you mean, "our gold"? Gold is always gold, either in your hand or in my hand. In your hand it is not Christian gold and in my hand it is not Hindu gold. Gold is gold.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: There is no material. When you forget Kṛṣṇa, that is material. Just like madness. Madness is not our natural position, but when your brain is deranged, then it is madness. Madness has no separate existence, but when our brain is not in order, there is madness. Similarly, there is nothing material, because everything has come from Kṛṣṇa. The original source is Kṛṣṇa. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). So the material world, the so-called material world, has come from Kṛṣṇa. So if it has come from Kṛṣṇa how it is material? The cause and effect is the same, maybe differently manifested. Just like cotton, cotton made into thread, the shape has changed, but it is cotton. And from the cotton thread, you make cloth. The cloth is cotton. But if I say, "Cotton. Bring cotton," then you'll bring cotton, not this cloth. But the cloth is also cotton. Now understand? Cloth is nothing but cotton. But when I say "Bring cotton," you'll not bring a cloth. You'll bring cotton. So the Kṛṣṇa is the sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1), cause of all effects. So all the effects are Kṛṣṇa. But you have no such realization. When you understand that this place is Kṛṣṇa's place, so you can worship Kṛṣṇa, glorify Kṛṣṇa. But if you don't realize that it is Kṛṣṇa's, then you talk nonsense, madman. "This is American property," "It is African property," "It is this. It is that," so many madness. But the śāstra says, iśavāsyam idam, everything Kṛṣṇa's. And the materialists, they'll pro... "No. Why everything? It is my country. It is my place." That is material. Similarly, anything coming from Kṛṣṇa—Kṛṣṇa is supreme spirit—it is spiritual. The devotees, they understand that "This fruit has come from Kṛṣṇa. The flower has come from Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it must be offered to Kṛṣṇa. It is for use." Otherwise how the fruit becomes spiritual? We take prasādam. How it becomes..., the same fruit? No. Because the Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there, it is spiritual. It is spiritual, but it was not known. When one comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he understands that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Hari-sambhandhi vastūnaḥ. Everything has got relationship with Kṛṣṇa. That's the fact. So if anything has got relationship with Kṛṣṇa, so that is not material. We are going to a house, but it is said "temple." Why? Because there is relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise where is the difference between the next house and our house? So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that everything is spiritual, but we do not accept it. We accepted something else. That is material.

Morning Walk -- November 11, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Whatever they say, we have to believe. That's all. (laughter) Except Kṛṣṇa, we shall believe everything. When Kṛṣṇa says something: "No, no, these are all fictitious. There is no Kṛṣṇa, and these are all imagination." And as a rascal says, "Oh, this is scientific." This is going on. So we are not so fools that we shall believe these scientific rascals. We believe Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are not going to believe the scientific rascals.

Dr. Patel: All, all good, these do good, sir. I believe you should not be very harsh to the scientist. I am sorry...

Prabhupāda: They are not scientists. They are rascals. I don't accept them as scientists. They, if they are putting forward theories every day, what kind of scientist? They are not scientist. Scientist means fixed up idea. It cannot be changed. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is scientist. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20).

Harikeśa: Just consider how great they are. They've managed to isolate one little tiny electron and one little tiny positron, and then they send one one way, and they send one the other way, and then they meet and they smash.

Prabhupāda: So what is the benefit?

Harikeśa: But that's so difficult to do, you know. There are so many things get in the way.

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (2): And your Godbrother Swāmī Bon?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I know that. He is also one of them.

Devotee (2): He established... (too faint)

Prabhupāda: Others, they do not accept. So...

Yaśomatīnandana: Funny thing is that some of the historians, they say, "There was no war like Mahābhārata. It's all fictitious. There's nothing like Kurukṣetra." Some historians say that there is Kurukṣetra and there is evidences of war of Mahābhārata. But none of them completely agree with the scriptures. They all have their own fantastic theories, even those who say that...

Prabhupāda: So why shall I accept them?

Yaśomatīnandana: How can we prove the...

Prabhupāda: They cannot prove. Our proof is already there. They cannot prove. Why don't you take that point, that these rascals, they are contradictory to one another, so they cannot prove. Our proof is already there.

Yaśomatīnandana: That is what we should aim at. We should aim at "You cannot prove your..."

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And the... When Brahmānanda was speaking that word yesterday, I refuted your argument?

Brahmānanda: You were asking, "Why is it Sunday, Monday..." So I explained that the sun is the center of the universe; therefore the sun comes first.

Dr. Patel: No, various suns are there. All the stars are the suns of various universes.

Prabhupāda: No, we don't accept that. No. Sun is one.

Dr. Patel: That is the fundamental difference of opinion that we don't go ahead of it, sir.

Prabhupāda: No, why shall I go according to the dictation of the rascals? We are not so rascal.

Dr. Patel: And now we are define who is a rascal.

Prabhupāda: No, rascal is meant, who has no authority. They are changing every day. They are changing. We don't change. These rascals are changing...

Dr. Patel: These fundamentals, sir, cannot be changed.

Prabhupāda: In nineteenth century one theory and twentieth century another theory and then another theory, another theory. This is going on.

Dr. Patel: The truth is not changed but...

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. You cannot explain truth in your own way.

Dr. Patel: The whole truth nobody knows and sees. Even our śāstra says.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Things which one does not know, he should not try to cheat others by placing some untruth.

Dr. Patel: It is like five blind men seeing an elephant.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So you should not give the conclusion that "Elephant is like..."

Dr. Patel: Then we don't accept... It is very difficult to know the whole truth by any one of us.

Prabhupāda: No. Therefore our process is upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ. One has seen the truth. Not these rascals. Tattva-darśinaḥ. Darśinaḥ means who has actually seen. There is no change. The advice is tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevaya (BG 4.34). These are the quotes. Upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ. Not that theoretical. Tattva-darśinaḥ. You have to go there. Then you will get knowledge. A blind man goes to another blind man. What is the profit? No profit.

Dr. Patel: Andhena andha-niyataḥ.(?)

Prabhupāda: Ah. Andha yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). A blind man must go to a man who has got eyes, who has seen. Then that is right knowledge. Now we are presenting this book, Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. Let anyone come and challenge. Let anyone come. We have got many scientists. They will talk. What is the value of speculation?

Morning Walk -- November 19, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Maybe, but I do not know.

Yaśomatī-nandana: Because they say, these mundane scholars, that Bhāgavata was after Śaṅkarācārya because he did not write a commentary on Bhāgavata. Because there's a mention of Kaṁsa and Cāṇūra and Vasudeva and Devakī, that means that Śaṅkarācārya did believe in the personal of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: But Vedavyāsa is after Śaṅkarācārya?

Yaśomatī-nandana: They don't accept it is written by Vedavyāsa.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Yaśomatī-nandana: They don't... They are such atheistic people, they do not accept that it is written by Vedavyāsa.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but others accept it.

Yaśomatī-nandana: Yes, the vast people do accept.

Prabhupāda: Vedavyāsa is accepted by Śaṅkarācārya. Vyāsadeva. Vyāsa-guru.

Yaśomatī-nandana: They think that some Vaiṣṇava wrote it and put the name of Vedavyāsa. They are so demoniac.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they say like that. Then other ācāryas, they are also fools?

Morning Walk -- November 19, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ācāryas... But their paramparā system is very old. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...Bhagavad-gītā? No.

Yaśomatī-nandana: They don't accept it as... They do not accept Gītā as spoken by some person Kṛṣṇa five thousand years ago.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, do they accept the authority of Bhagavad-gītā or not?

Yaśomatī-nandana: They say it's a very nice book of knowledge. They don't want to pursue spiritual life.

Prabhupāda: Then why they become authority?

Yaśomatī-nandana: Yes, that is their rascaldom.

Prabhupāda: If they do not accept authority, why they become authority? Who will accept them? If everything is depending on mental speculation, then why they should be accepted as authority?

Yaśomatī-nandana: That they cannot answer. Only insincere people, foolish people, they are misled by them. Otherwise I don't think anybody even knows their philosophy. Everyone knows your philosophy because they see your disciples, and no one goes to read their books. Mostly I see in their books, "First edition, copies, two thousand," "three thousand," something like that. And you never see a second edition.

Prabhupāda: (break) Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu for the last twelve years he was lying idle, and this time he went, and people appreciated so much he was giving delete.(?) He is advertising like that. (end)

Morning Walk -- November 26, 1975, New Delhi:

Harikeśa: Well, at least everybody is not satisfied equally, so there's no envy.

Prabhupāda: Because you are, everybody is not learned, everybody is rascal. Therefore he is not satisfied. If one is in knowledge he is satisfied.

Harikeśa: But religion is just sentimentality. There's no...

Prabhupāda: You do not know what is religion. Therefore we do not accept sentimental religion. We say it is cheating. Such kind of religion, we say it is cheating.

Harikeśa: You can't eat religion.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Harikeśa: If you spend all your days just chanting, how can you eat? Religion means you go to the church and you just pray.

Prabhupāda: And who says that religionists should not eat? Do we say...? We have ample prasādam to eat. It is already there. You are researching after food, starving dog. We don't research. There is food ready.

Harikeśa: But we're just exploiting.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa bada day maya, karibāre jihv jaya, sva-prasāda anna dilo bhāi. Kṛṣṇa is ready. Take prasādam as much as you like.

Morning Walk -- November 26, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: I can go. What is time?

Harikeśa: Almost seven. (break)

Prabhupāda: (break) ...road?

Devotee (2): This is Curzon Road.

Prabhupāda: Curzon Road. (break) ...religion, we say "cheating religion." We don't accept sentimentally.

Harikeśa: Well, the sentiment is the faith. The dictionary definition, sentimentalism is the faith.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Faith is good, provided you have faith on the superior. That is good.

Harikeśa: So faith in knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Knowledge means received from the superior. Like the child gets knowledge from the father. That kind of faith is required. If the child does not believe the statement of father and mother, he cannot make any progress. If the child does not believe the statement of mother, he does not know who is his father. So there must be faith, faith in the right person. Then it is all right. If you have got faith in the person who has got eyes to lead you, then he will help you to cross the road. And if you put your faith to another blind man like you, then it will cause disaster. Faith is required, but to the right person. Then it will be all right. You know that one barber is honest: then you can make your neck like this and he is with a sharpened razor. But you have faith that "He will not cut my throat; he will shave me." This is faith. And if you do not know him and if you put your neck like this and if he is a rogue, he will cut your throat. That's all. The same faith, if you put it to the right person, you become cleansed, shaved, and the same faith put in the wrong person—your throat is cut off. So you must know where to put the faith. So our Vedic injunction is: "Put your faith to the brahma-nistam, one who is God-realized." Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet samit-paniḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭam: (MU 1.2.12) "One who has full knowledge in the Vedas and firmly fixed up in Brahman, God, you put your faith there." Otherwise there will be disaster. Right faith. (break) ...you call Prabhakara?

Morning Walk -- November 26, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Hundred years finished and then become a dog. This is civilization. You got the hundred years for getting out of these material clutches, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhī (BG 13.9), but one will not do that. How spoiling civilization.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In the Fifth Canto it is very nicely described how for each sinful activity a person goes to a separate type of hellish planet.

Prabhupāda: But they do not accept this, such a foolish person.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Any sane man, if he found out what the consequences will be, he would listen to the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: They do not believe next life, that, to dismiss all these ideas. If there is no next life... Bhasmi bhūtasya... Atheists, they do not believe next life. All big, big men in Europe, they say, "No, there is no life." Here also.

Haṁsadūta: They will say, "We have no evidence, no evidence of..."

Prabhupāda: Evidence is there. Still, you are so rascal. Evidence is you were a child. That is the evidence. Where is that body? A very simple evidence, but these rascals are so dull, they cannot understand.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They accept what is good for their sense gratification, and what is not good, they won't accept.

Prabhupāda: And where is sense gratification? (break)

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They say? They say?

Indian man: Oh, yes. In Mauritius there are many cults. So they invited us, I went to two, three. So they asked me that "We are coming many temple. You people, why not you come?" I said, "Well, whenever you invite us, we are ready to come, but you accept our philosophy." So they said, "How we can accept your philosophy? Prabhupāda, he, wherever, he say that all the other are Māyāvādī. All other are rascal." (laughter) "Well, Kṛṣṇa has said that. Prabhupāda is not doing that. Kṛṣṇa said who don't accept Him, he is mūḍha; he is rascal. So Prabhupāda is giving as it is, whatever Kṛṣṇa has said." Oh, they were...

Prabhupāda: No... (break) Kṛṣṇa said, "The rascals do not surrender to Me." So as soon as we see somebody not Kṛṣṇa conscious, we call him rascal. So what is the wrong there?

Indian man: It is not wrong.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says, na mā duṣkṛtino mūḍhā prapadyante narādhamāḥ. So we find out rascals, if he is not Kṛṣṇa conscious. So what is our fault? Kṛṣṇa says this is the test to find out who is a rascal. And who is rascal? Who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a rascal. So if you are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, you are a rascal. We have to see through the śāstra characteristic of a rascal, that he is not Kṛṣṇa conscious. That's all. We may be fool, but we take lesson from Bhagavad-gītā. That's all. And from the lesson we understand you are rascal number one." That's all.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I do not follow what he is saying.

Harikeśa: He's saying he built a factory but he didn't use Bhagavad-gītā to do it.

Prabhupāda: So who says that without Bhagavad-gītā you cannot ignite fire?

Akṣayānanda: So why should we accept that the living entity will not die.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is authority. If you do not accept, then this is the example, argument. That the factory surrounded by fire, it does not mean there is no life. From distance, you are seeing the sun from a very, very, 95 or 93 million miles away. Fiery it is undoubtedly, but it is exactly like that: that you see from a distant place, the iron factory, it is simply fiery. Your experience is from distance. You have not gone there. So the distance experience is like this, that you see there is fire, big fire, but still there are life. You have to accept this argument.

Harikeśa: Actually it is perfectly reasonable.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: In the fire there's fiery bodies.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: But then that must mean in the water there's watery bodies.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If there is no authority, why do you quote so many rascals? Then come to reason, argument, that's all. If you quote authority, I have got my authority.

Harikeśa: So this fire... That makes sense.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Harikeśa: This fire, it makes sense. That there's life in fire.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is argument. When you do not accept authority, there must be reason and argument.

Harikeśa: But this ether thing is very troublesome.

Prabhupāda: Troublesome for you! (laughter)

Harikeśa: Yes. You said sound is in the ether.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: But I couldn't understand how air...

Prabhupāda: You have to gain that intelligence.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: Just like Kṛṣṇa does not say, "Make an experiment." He says the fact: asmin dehe dehinaḥ. "The proprietor of the body is within this body." There is no question of experimenting.

Harikeśa: But that's our thesis.

Prabhupāda: Not.... I say "thesis." Kṛṣṇa do.... Kṛṣṇa says the fact.

Harikeśa: But I mean in order to...

Prabhupāda: But if you don't accept Kṛṣṇa's...

Harikeśa: Yeah, they don't accept. So that, that's our thesis.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then, then take it as thesis.

Harikeśa: Thesis. So therefore it's an experiment.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not experiment. It is to be subjected to discussion. That is not experiment. Because the fact is there. Now whether it is fact, that you have to discuss.

Harikeśa: So this experimental knowledge should be strictly kept in the scientific realm. You know, discussion...? Because you asked me before to write on...

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: The scientific knowledge is already there, but as you do not accept it, then the question of discussion, or, you say, experiment, can come. The truth is already there. Just like the sun is the truth, is there. Everyone knows. Now somebody says "There is no light," and somebody says "There is light." Now it has to be discussed.

Harikeśa: In this book, Lenin has a dialogue. He makes these dialogues. At his.... I was just looking quickly. There's some dialogue here.

Prabhupāda: What is that dialogue?

Harikeśa: I haven't looked into it exactly, but I've seen.... This is too...

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Harikeśa: He's too insane to read quickly.

Prabhupāda: No, read it. Let us see.

Harikeśa: OK. "The fundamental premises of the theory of knowledge of Mock(?) and Averniu..., Avanarias(?) are frankly, simply and clearly expounded by them in their early philosophical works. To these works we shall now turn, postponing for later treatment an examination of the corrections and emendations subsequently made by these writers. 'The task of science,' Mock(?) wrote in 1872, 'can only be: 1. to determine the laws of connection of ideas, psychology; 2. to discover...' "

Prabhupāda: That is not science, ideas.